Massenomics Podcast - Ep. 449: Zach Even-Esh, Vintage Weight, Training, & The Jersey Shore

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Big Zach Even-Esh joins us for this one to discuss EVERYTHING! We talk about vintage weights, training for injury recovery, the Jersey Shore, and 80’s movie classics. Build Fast Formula Use code MASSENOMICS to save 10% on every order! BearFoot Shoes Use code MASSENOMICS to save 10% on every order! Juggernaut AI Use code MASSENOMICS to save 10%! The Strength Co Get some Go-To Plates! Swiss Link Use code MASS to save 15%! Texas Power Bars Get the Barbell that changed the game!

Thanks for what you do with your podcasts and all the rest. You're doing a great job. Hope everybody keeps tuning in. You get a lot of good info, a lot of insights, understandings on how to get strong, how to stay strong, how to use your strength. You do a great job, dude. You make things better than they are in real life, I think.

If you don't follow Massenomics, y'all do it. Social media, website, everything. Massenomics! sign everything mass an onyx. Was having done that for a while. Get that out. What's going on? Everyone? It's episode 449 of the Mastinomics podcast, the listening, lifting podcast about near freeing. Listen to and viewed by millions and millions all around the globe. My name is Tanner and my name is Tommy. We got a special one this week. Big guest,

big Zach Evan Ash coming up. Got some grip challenge talk, some cars, some restaurants, some cars, some restaurants, some needs some curl spoiler alert here. I'm just reading words, reading the whole document off. I'm just gonna start it's gonna do it again to the teleprompter here. I'm just gonna put words in there and see if he'll say it. This episode before we get into all that, I want to make sure everyone knows that this episode is brought to you by

juggernaut AI. Juggernaut AI is the training that we at Masanomics have been using for, I don't know, years at this point. We've been avid users of it and not for no reason. It's not just because they pay us to say that. I mean, that is part of the reason we say it, but we use it because we like it and we believe it works and it has worked for us. It's worked for many.

Has worked. It's working right now. It's working right now. I'm getting stronger just talking about juggernaut AI. If you want to find out more about the programming, the scientific approach they take to getting you stronger in the long term, it's a long term play here at juggernaut AI, check them out at juggernautai.app when you sign up, use discount code massonomics. And with that you

can save 10% on the lifetime of that membership and This episode is also brought to you by Texas power bars Texas power bars has got a few things going on if you head over to the website Texas power bars comm First of all you can go to the blem bars the blemish bar section And they have some pretty deep discounts up to 80 bucks on a variety of bars That's different styles different finishes different coatings all types of options in there and they're also running their promotion or right now by any Texas power bar and you can get a free American flag with your purchase while supplies last

so if you'd like to use the bar that Tannan eyes go to bar our bar, best bang for your buck bar heading over to texaspowerbars.com and tell massonomic sent you. Thank you Texas. Lifting on your 29 millimeter. Oh, you know, I do. Yes. Yes. Yes, I have been every half millimeter counts doesn't it absolutely matters. You know what next they're going to come out with the 29 and a half

It's really flipping the game on its head people just wanted that extra half millimeter so bad they take it to the extreme and 29 and a half. No. No, what if you thought that extra half millimeter was good? What about this another half and it'll be the Texas Power XL. And the joke is that it's a half millimeter bigger. So it's the XL. Everyone else is only 29 millimeters. We were 29 and a half. That's the thing. All right. What do we got going on this week, Tommy?

Oh, we got all types of stuff going on here. We do have an update for Crew Falls. Oh yeah. Crew Falls coming December 7th. Did you hit any buttons or am I just like losing my mind here? I feel like you sound different all of a sudden. No, I didn't hit any buttons. Okay, well maybe I'm just relaxing in and.

Yeah, you're just getting more comfortable. Do I sound different now? Yeah, you're just getting more comfortable No, that sounds like normal now, okay, okay, okay, it's almost I'll be right then Come with me if you want to live oh is it because I didn't read the juggernaut AI I've been doing that for years, but maybe you're just like flashbacks to when I used to read my juggernaut ad in an Arnold voice. I'll do that again next week. Nah, December 7th, Crew Falls, South Dakota. We're having our Crew Falls meet up our second annual.

And we added a little, we got a lot of people coming this year. It looks like it's probably going to be up to in the 40 range that have RSVP'd so far, a lot of people flying, I think it's like 11, 11 different states, a couple different Canadian provinces that will be represented. So we wanted to make sure we had enough activities for people because this is last year was just kind of a Saturday thing. But we're gonna have a bunch of people

there by Friday. So we wanted to have some fun Friday, annual Friday 5k, we'll do a 5k. We'll do a physical 5k fun run. 10k for those that are up for it. Now what we are going to do is the golden PP grip gauntlet challenge. And there is going there is custom awards getting made right now for the golden PP grip gauntlet challenge a cusp fully custom massonomic special awards and there'll be at least at least three of those some of them might be

awarded based on performance some of it might be less tangible less tangible aspects that we haven't even really decided yet, right? Absolutely. So the golden PP grip gauntlet challenge, everyone will get to get in it too. Scale level does not matter. You know, I mean, you might do worse, of course, so I guess it matters a little bit. But it'll be scaled in a way that everyone can participate. That'll be in my garage. Friday afternoon. Yes. So it'll be Tommy's home gym. Tommy's garage gym golden PP grip gauntlet challenge. Tommy's first annual golden PP grip gauntlet challenge showdown.

Sponsored by the twenty twenty four second annual Massenomics Crew Falls meetup event. A December to remember. Put that on the name just rolls off the tongue. I don't know if we have enough names for things. I almost forgot it's also a December to remember. But this year, it's a December to remember is another important part of the name. It's because it's the second annual. So it's a December to remember. But this year it's a December to remember is another important part of the name. It's, cause it's the second annual,

so it's a December to remember this year. Yeah, we were just kind of ahead of the game last year with it being the first one. Yeah. How do you feel about the Lift Hard Live 3Z? It's got a little jingle to it. I won't give it that. A few people had suggested that.

I'm not, yeah, that's actually not too bad. Lift Hard Live 3Z. That is pretty good. A few people had suggested that. I'm not, yeah, that's actually not too bad. Lift hard, live three-sy. That is pretty good. The funny part is though is that- That's just idiotic enough to work. Well, and it's funny because lift hard, live, we're replacing the word easy with three-sy, and normally easy, if the actual event,

it would be easy with a three. So we're actually technically making it a little longer by doing 3z Right, you know But it does this one does roll off the tongue more though. It's lift hard live 3z yeah, I think big Tyler F and stone dash e might have been the first person So well, and it sets us up great for the next year to do the lift hard lift 4Z, right? And the 5Z and the 6Z. We just roll with that forever.

Not seven, not eight. People are like, these names don't make any sense. What's going on here? Ah, it made sense like four years ago. You wouldn't get it. You would have had to have been here four years ago for any of this to make any sense. You just don't even get involved in this

at this point in time. It's over your head. So that is the grip any of this to make any sense. You just don't even get involved in this at this point in time. It's over your head. So that is the Grip Challenge. More to come on that. We'll probably tease some awards and stuff as we get a little closer to December. We're only a month out. It's exactly a month from-

I mean, by the time you're hearing this, we're less than a month out. Right. Can't hold anything back now, can you? Do you feel like people looking at the next 30 days, do you feel like the lift are the crew falls December, to remember all the words we just said,

do you feel like that probably ranks above Thanksgiving and a lot of people's things to look forward to? Oh yeah, absolutely. What's gonna be more fun? I mean, I want all these people to have an honest assessment of what are they gonna have more fun at if you wanna engage it that way. And you don't gotta say anything

because we know the answer. Yep, yep. Did you get a new car, Tommy? I did not get a new car. I did not. Did you see any of my pictures? Yeah, yeah. Did you get a loaner car though?

I did get kind of one of my favorite cars as a loaner car. My my neighbor happens to own a pretty large used car. Yeah, ship in town. Yeah, and needed some new tires on the Tahoe on the wife's Tahoe. You know, we were talking about this, you just actually don't think we talked about the podcast, you just went through the same situation recently in your life. Yeah, I got new tires on my pickup, new tires on your pickup, we got new tires on the Tahoe, not the most exciting or

glamorous thing to spend money on. But one of the least of those things, one of the least possible exciting or glamorous not exciting, not glamorous. It's at the bottom of the pile of both those. But it has to be done. You know, you don't want to be getting a flat in the middle of winter in South Dakota, because that could be a real issue. Time you get new tires in South Dakota is just before winter like his like every every South Dakota dad knows If you're gonna get two new tires, you actually want to wait as close to the start of interest wait

So then you got those fresh tires for that just ready to go Go anywhere So I did that and when I went to the dealership I hadn't actually been in it before. And he gave me the full tour and a lot of a lot of impressive cars. Let's say they have, I don't know, probably like 50 plus classic cars that they have inventory at all times. And so I mean, we're talking anything from like 1930s Pontiacs to, you know,

a 2022 Porsche Taycan, like there's everything in there, but some really cool stuff lots of stuff had like awesome stories behind it from like a one owner VW bug that from like 1960 something to like Corvettes with 7,000 miles from a guy that just collects them so he has like a warehouse full of Corvettes that once they get to 7,000 miles, he just parks them forever. And so like just all these cool cars they had acquired. And then,

what was their 2000s Malibu selection like? Nothing. I'm like, I could really, I could really flip the game on its head here right now and bring you guys a Malibu right now. And obviously their inventory is supply demand. demand to get top dollar for that. There's no supplies. So the demand is through the roof. Exactly. But then we were walking through the lot. I had

seen this. They had a certain car and one of my one of my all time favorite cars, you know, if I was to pick a modern a modern automobile is the Mercedes E class wagon, there's just something about a wagon that just combines the, the, do they make that new anymore? They still do. Yes. They're also insane. That must be like one of the only station wagons that exist. Yeah, they do. Audi makes a couple of wagons and then Subaru sort of makes wagons. You know, they're kind of borderline. It just kind of looks like that anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. They're kind of borderline. Like, is this an SUV? Is this a wagon? But, um, that's kind of looks like that anyway. Yeah Yeah, they're kind of borderline like is this an SUV is this a wagon? but that's about it for a wagon anymore and I was walking through a lot. I'm like, oh I saw you had this on your website I'm like, this is like one of my favorite cars. He's like, well, this can just be your loaner car for the day I go perfect and so he gave me the keys for it and you know, we're talking a v6 twin turbo all-wheel drive and Man, it goes it's so cool. It's so nice and my wife used to have a Mercedes She used to have a little GLK

Crossover back in the day and it kind of took me back to that, you know it's got a lot of stuff except this was a newer version, but it was reminding me of that vehicle and then I got at home and I forgot it look some of these have a This has to be like a European thing. I don't know how it's how it's allowed in America, but apparently it is in the very, very back. They have a seat that folds into the floor, a third row. So this is technically a third row, but it faces in reverse. So it looks out the back window, you know, and I know this used to be a thing with American cars back in the day. Right. I don't think there's anyone made an American car like that.

Like the last 30 years that does that but this had it and My kids got home from daycare and we showed them it and they thought that was the coolest thing ever So then we did a few laps around the neighborhood You know with them buckled in the back and they thought that was like Living the life and then eventually we took the car back to go get my wife's car and my kids are very upset They thought that was the new car and so I hate to break it to you guys, but not quite ready to pull I'm not ready to part ways with the Malibu just yet. So yeah a new car and so I hate to break it to you guys but not quite ready to put I'm not ready to part ways with the Malibu just yet so yeah a new car for me in uh something speaking of like a South Dakota dad something a South Dakota dad would say about a car like that is oh yeah but the service dude is

that true I mean kind of yeah yeah I mean that's what that's what someone would say right like I don't like I mean I'm completely uninformed in my first thought if I thought to ever even buy a car like that I'd be like scared of the service. Yeah, I know the service Yeah, I just look at well, but also you don't have to go to the dealership like yes They is a Mercedes dealership in town, but I mean even my wife had her his car like okay take in You know they do like a an a and a B service is what they call it Yeah, and like look at look at just our cars, if we need to get an oil change,

it's been 5,000 miles or whatever your interval is, take that in and see what that price is and then go to the Mercedes dealership and have them do the same thing. And we're talking like hundreds of dollars versus like maybe $800. So yeah, there's some of that stuff that goes with it. You can also go through independent shops

that will bring that price down a lot. But yeah, when you're talking import vehicles, you're talking a lot more money for some of those things. So it's not the price tag that gets you. It's the service. I mean, kind of. Yeah, a little bit. That's like with all that stuff, it's like, well, you're not really buying, you know. Well, this is more exotic cars, but it's like, yeah, that exotic car that was

like one hundred and fifty thousand000 new announced appreciated down to, you know, 50 or 60. It's not a 50 or $60,000 vehicle. Like the maintenance is still like $150,000 vehicle on it, you know, like, right. You haven't escaped that. So, but, uh, lots of cool stuff. I'm trying to think if there was any, there was one truck there. I cannot remember what it was now. Um, I should have taken a picture of Tanner, you would have thought it was pretty cool. It was like an 80s Ford, it was like one of one for the color combination,

and it had like all the crazy like decal lines on the side, and it was like a yellow and brown. It looks really, really cool, but. We had a Ranger like that, that had the wild factory decals on the side. They don't do that anymore, You don't see that anymore. They don't make them like they used to. No, they don't.

And then you, were you also eating at a restaurant? I was eating at a restaurant. Okay, I was gonna bring this up to you a little while ago because I was curious. You're someone that also likes to go with your significant other to a restaurant and enjoy a little time away from the family. We know the spot. We're talking about Schwann's recreation. The usual, you know?

And I've seen this. Okay. So my wife and I have made the comment, we've seen this happen multiple times now where we go to a restaurant and whether we're alone or with kids, just depending on what we've seen happen both ways, we'll sit down and we'll watch another couple walk in. And that couple walks in and they sit down, they don't say a word to each other, they both look at their phones and they start like a 30 minute just like browsing sesh on their phones

without making eye contact or saying a single word. And I'm like, dude, for all I know, I'm not judging here. You have kids at home and this is like your first break from them in six months. And you're like, I just want pure quietness. But also it's so bizarre to me to go out and be like, no, we are not even gonna be conversing at all during this time period.

It's wild. Yeah, we don't do that. I mean, we kind of, it's not a written rule, but we mostly put our phones away when we're like that. Because it's like, well, we don't do that. I mean we kind of what it's not a written rule But we mostly put our phones away when yeah like that because it's like well, we don't get to do this ever So like yes, it's gonna be awesome We actually get to talk to each other and like not be like screaming over kids Oh, I just constantly interrupted or yeah tending to someone or trying to so that's kind of the fun of it for us Is that we get to like have a conversation and be like, oh, yes

I forgot we still like each other when we're not. You know, we're not just like business partners in this crazy job. I talked to you and we're not just purely putting out fires. Yeah. Yeah. So that's I mean, not that where it's also not like, no, you are not allowed to look at your phone. Yeah. You know, like, but you're like not sitting down for just like tens of minutes plus. I mean, actually, we went out and ate on

Saturday night at Schwann's recreation and there was even a point in time. We had been there for maybe like an hour and My wife went to the bathroom. You said it's like a Vegas casino. I don't know if I've been here for an hour or a day I've lost all track of time. I can't tell But there just was a moment. I even I noticed it because we were both looking at our phone for probably like 30 seconds it wasn't a long time, but like if you count 30 seconds out loud Do you know in the moment that's kind of takes a while and a couple people walked by and I had the thought about like Ah, probably think we just sit here on our phones Needed a place with some Wi-Fi just

place with some Wi-Fi just to chill out. Yes. When you walked into Shawn's with your bad knee, were they like, oh, you old son of a bitch broke your knee? Or was it was the whole bar going wild? No, the fun, he was the funniest interaction of the people. Well, Chuck was there. Oh, okay. Big Chuck was there.

Well, there's always someone you know there, right? Yeah, yes, there is. That is true. But there was, I had, my daughter had basketball at the Y earlier that night, that same night. So I hobbled in there on crutches and this guy that was working like the front desk. No, I was picking up at the Y from a kid's swimming party. Not relevant, but that's what it was. And the guy that was in this area working at the Y

Had said so oh he goes oh Not the time of year you want to be on those things and I said And I go well, and I said yeah, but then again I don't really want to be on him any time a year. We both had a good laugh about that So then later that night say like three hours later, we walk into Schwann's recreation. First guy sitting at the bar is this guy. And he goes, same thing. No, he goes, you again. And I go, Oh, how'd you recognize me? And like, I am walking in on two crutches. So then we all had a good laugh about that.

That is good. And we're like, is like, I don't even know this man. And we're it's like, we're having like this thing Where we say stupid easier? Yeah, just dragging on each other like we do yeah, yes That's that's it I was down to uh I am most the time just using one crutch right I saw You have some workout videos where there's just a single crash lane on the ground so I The dual crutches you have some workout videos where there's just a single couch laying on the ground So I lifted today at the gym I did my few PT exercises and then a little upper body there and I was able to even load the bar by myself

Which is it was not easy, but I was able to do it for the first time So the PT exercises all just revolve around Chest exercises, it's it's mostly just max bench. Like the PT's are like, let's be real here. Blood flow to your pecs. Let's be real here, you got a bad knee, so let's just focus on what you can do. We're gonna do a chest building program here.

Max bench press. You just are gonna let your knee just do whatever it needs to do. Your knee's fine, let's get back to benching. Now's the time for some bench PRs. Yes. That's what the physical therapist says. Yeah, but it's doing all right. It's one of those things. It's one of them things.

It's just one of those days. It is getting a little bit better though. Like it's getting a little less swollen and it's improving slowly. Just taking a little, taking a long time. And the worst part about is still nighttime sleeping or not sleeping for that matter. More specifically, the not sleeping that gets me as the sleeping. I believe that.

So I've tried a lot of different concoctions of, uh, the all various, everything in the kitchen sink to sleep and various, but I found found none of those things work on me all that well when I'm When my body doesn't want to do the sleep and there's just something about being really tired that makes you sleep better than any Yes, this Yep. Oh, oh, I'm plenty tired Yeah, well a different kind of tired. I should say like yeah like physical tired. Yes, right, right, right. Yes, exactly What was this about curls? Oh The like our shirt no no no, um, I had just from watching

Probably RP strength dr. Mike videos. I feel like I see Videos him doing curls where he's seated on a bench. Yeah, absolutely, I do those. I had never done those in my life. Yep. And not that I'm ever really chasing the pumper doing any bodybuilding style training,

I'm more of like trying to move weight from point A to point B, but I can definitely say that I have never, for the most part, sufficiently felt curls in my bicep. Like, I can, but at a certain point, it's most part, sufficiently felt curls in my bicep. I can, but at a certain point, it's like, well, because it was either really heavy or... Right, right. It's just, I've always struggled with it.

And once I did the seating ones, like on an incline bench, at a bit of an incline, my God, I was like, is this what- It doesn't take very much weight. It takes, 20 pounds is damn near possible Do a set of 15 with 20 pounds and I'm like I actually am afraid I'm gonna tear a bicep like it was just feeling so intense And then I realized easy stretch. Oh, I'm just like realizing. Oh, okay I've never really trained my biceps in my entire life before it it

It's funny you say that because I did those on Sunday and it was just like earlier today. So we're recording this on Wednesday and my left bicep I'm like wow that's sore like and then I'm like is it just that one what did I do and then I felt I'm like oh my right feels exactly the same and then I'm like oh yeah it's those damn like laying down like deep stretch it's that thing as much as people want to hate on it it is the the thing of the deep stretch where when you're at that incline, you know, when you stand up and down at a certain point, just gravity takes over and your arms are just relaxed at your side. Where here you don't ever bring your arms.

Like they're always under tension, even at the bottom. Yeah. And you just pay for it. God, it's so, it's just brutal. So I can, I can confidently say that that is the way to be doing curls. Yeah, I was going to say like, say what you want about the having that philosophy on every single lift. But that is one lift where you can because Ross was saying he's like, yeah, I do

those two. Those are insane. We all get it. We all got it from the same source, you know, but it's like that is one I'm like, that is worth a try if you've never done that form curled like that It's it's basically, you know I used to do incline curls and all essentially was is like it's like no do less of an incline Like you don't like lean it back farther and farther and farther until you almost completely flat I see and I think mine's out like I'm setting up. I'm probably you know that 45 degree angle. So I'm fairly right, right?

But right. Oh, I think lane flat more even more I don't like I can't I can't even bear to know I wouldn't even be able to bear to ghosts completely flat Like it's like 20 pounds here like it's I mean that's not a lot when I went to a commercial gym There's always high school scrawny high school kids that are just chucking around like 30 pounds for dumbbells You know for girls, and they're just whatever form. And here, if you do like a good strict 20, cause you can't like, the fact that you're on the incline, on a bench means you can't get any body English into it.

You can't get any lean. And I mean, if you don't go through a full range of motion, if you're cutting your motion short, yeah, you can make them easier. But if for the most part, you're extending your arm about as far as you can, and you're bringing it up. You can almost let your elbow even slightly hyper extend. Oh, and that's what it starts to feel like.

Am I losing control? Is something going to hyper extend here? And God, you start getting to the top, and you just wonder, is this actually what tearing a bicep is like? And actually, the feeling, the first time I got done with it, it reminded me of one of the first times I did the stone for reps.

And something about doing the stone for reps, I don't know if it's bad technique or what, but it gives you that deep bicep pain that you've never felt before. And now, so I've been doing it now for a couple of weeks, and now I'm at the point where I don't get this like painful soreness, which makes you think, okay, there's a little adaptation going on there,

and I am getting slightly better at them. And the way that a set of 15 doesn't absolutely murder me. But man, that that is the way to do curls. Yeah, that is. Should we do a little supporting our supporting members? Let's do it. This is a relatively new segment to the Mastinomics podcast breaking news relatively new segment right here

It's where we give back to those that give to us We have our supporting members that support the support the show support massonomics everything we're doing you could become one also if you head Over to massonomics comm slash join. That's where you get signed up for it. We have a whole whole multiple various options Sign-up levels. So check it out. There's probably something for you at math sonics comm slash join Get access to our discord community. It's the only way you get in on it. There's a discount code That's special just for supporting members You get to sign up early for things like our power lifting meet the lift hardly be easy classic It's probably the only way you get in to be honest

Whole bunch of stuff check it out And part of that is we give back each week with this segment. And we had Big Toby finished second place in his master's heavyweight class at Arizona. Arizona's strongest man. Well done, Big Toby. Big Matt and Big Jess says competed together. They did a push pull. They both hit PRs on bench and deadlift and Matt, Big Matt won a Sward Award. Oh, dude. The coveted Sward Award.

That's living the life right there. Yeah. I think, unless this is a typo, I got another big, yeah, yeah, this is also Big Matt. Big Matt competed in little unsanctioned. It looked like in Omaha. He hit a 1465 pound total and had PRS across the board. Very nice. Oh Big hunter competed in the blood in the water strong man. He had a PR on log press Big Katie ran a 24-hour ultra marathon hitting 50 miles. Oh Could you imagine? brutal

Who is the guy that? Greg Knuckles told us about yeah the Australian guy what the hell is his name the sheep herder? Yeah, I cannot think of it now Do you know why sheep herders tuck their pant legs into their boots? So don't get poop on them well, I think classically they'd say so they could shove the hind legs of the sheep into their boots on each side so they can't get away from them

when they're doing deviant acts to the sheep. Oh, okay. Like where are you going with this here? The deviant acts I caught on. And so the sheep can't get away. This is some old, some old. I think it's what you'd say about like, oh, you know what the people up from Frederick do?

You know, like, I guess I was gonna say, is this like an old, an old rule insult to give someone? Yes, yes, yes. And then they all, for the similar reasons, they'll also wear Velcro gloves. For the deviant acts. So the sheep can't get away during the deviant acts. If they're tucking their hind legs into the ear,

also your boots wasn't enough, they also wear Velcro gloves. If you need to be more of a deviant. Ah, Big Andy got the MSS and MX plate for Minnesota. Minnesota has come off the board that now makes 10 different MSS and MX plates that exist. So the number of available states is going down in a hurry. Is that also the first Mazda on the list was? I got to check. Scantz is supposed to keep the official list.

I know we're going to do name and geographical location, but we also, I think, need to include car type. I think a make and maybe a make and model field could be interesting as well. Because I want to know what ends up taking the cake. Because I think as the last one, I think I might have been the only Ford. There was like four Toyotas or something

Yeah, wasn't there a couple Toyota's and Tesla Tesla's or one Tesla? Yeah. Yeah, so there's a variety There's some options outside of the Toyota's Big Andrew I missed this from the prior week. He also competed at a static monsters event so Big Andrew you can rest easy knowing that you got covered here tonight and Big Andrew, you can rest easy knowing that you got covered here tonight. And this most recent guest on Unpaid to Underrated was Big Jess Sesney. Again, she's mentioned twice this week. Then also last but not least, shout out to all the crew members that competed in the Garage Gym competition.

There is far too many for me to name them all. So just a shout out to the entire collective that got in and competed on that Thank you everyone so much Tommy. What are we sitting like? We are sitting in front of zoom. That's how we're sitting like right now as our guest here. Yeah, he is not here yet Okay, that's perfect. I'm okay your voice change something is going on Maybe it's just zoom, but your voice did in fact just change. I'm gonna say at Zoom, doing Zoom stuff. Yeah, it sounds the same in my headphones,

so that's gotta be a good sign that. Oh, it's so, it's so, it's so new. Nothing ever now, here's Tommy. It's all the same on my end. I don't know what's going on with yours. on my end. I don't know what's going on with yours. This week's episode is brought to you by our good friends in Watertown, South Dakota, over at BuildFast formula. Check them out at buildfastformula.com.

That's where they got all their formulations, including vaso blitz, full blitz, 80 20, 80 20 protein proud powder, and they got creatine monohydrate again on the site. So check out everything. I just this weekend back at the gym, I'm like, I need a sweet pick me up for this bench session. So I had a full scoop of full blitz and a full scoop of vasoblitz

and just got that party rocking. And actually this morning I just blitzed. Baby. Yeah, I ordered some more 80 20 protein powder I went I was on vanilla ice cream and I switched back to chocolate lava cake Oh, dude, I use discount code Mastin omics that build fast formula and you'll save 10% on Every order. Thanks build fast And our guest has arrived now

Okay Yeah, this is the Joe Rogan podcast. Yeah, I guess I'll let anyone in here these days What any old son of a gun I hacked my way into Joe Rogan Like that old you guys are a little bit too young, but there was that old Movie of like a kid hacking into like the school computer system. Do you remember that movie? It was an eighties movie. I've seen it blank check. You guys, as was said in jerky boys, he's like, how old are you? You sound like a young kid. That's that would be,

that would be you guys. So, you know, I feel bad when you're young because you didn't grow up to the amazing movies of the 80s. No, we've actually reviewed a lot of movie stuff and the 80s is probably definitely where Tommy's knowledge of movies falls off and even mine falls off pretty good too. Really?

Well, how do you know of like Arnold movies? I mean, I went to- Well, there's exceptions that you gotta have to know. Yeah, we're talking more like maybe some of the deeper cuts, you know, that wasn't maybe critically acclaimed, but people seemed to watch at the time. Yeah, well, let me tell you, I watched, I think I was in third grade,

and for my brother's birthday party, my parents took him and eight friends to watch Predator in the movie theater. And I was eight years old, and Arnold is jacked to the gills and all you're thinking about is I'm going home and curling. That's all you can think about. Predator is the Dylan, you son of a bitch movie, right? Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Dylan, run, get to the chopper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tommy, have you seen Predator? Yeah, we actually, remember I brought this up like, I don't know, six months ago, I had seen the whole thing for the first time. And I did not realize one, how many memes

and like one-liners and everything came from that movie. Like now watching it, it almost seems like a joke because everyone's riffed off of it so much over the years. Well, if you didn't watch that movie, I was about to exit this meeting. How about this? Cause we talked about it last week. Have you ever seen Batman from 1989 with Michael Keaton and Nicholas? I watched it. Oh yeah, go ahead. I'm curious what you have to say about it.

Well, I don't really remember much about the movie, but what I remember was the biggest guy at the YMCA. I've written articles about him, his name was George. He always wore like a prison sweatsuit outfit. And then finally he wore a t-shirt and it was a Batman t-shirt and he had to like cut the sleeves. It's like arms are stretching, traps are stretching out. All I remember was George wore a Batman shirt and I got home. I was like, mom, you gave me the fucking, I can't remember where the hell we went. To get a Batman shirt and I got home I was like mom you gave me the fucking I can't remember where the hell we went to get a Batman shirt I don't even know what

stores were available back then but I got a Batman shirt and I was 130 pounds let's go to Sears Roar Buck it may have been Sears it may have been Sears which I bought when I first started Garage Jim's, because I know you guys had a good old coupon. I bought Joe Weider plates, but they had like the rubber on the outer edge. And I bought those from Sears. Probably was like 25 cents a pound back then. So you had a garage. Are you saying you had a garage gym then? Yeah, I'm not saying it, but I was before Coop is what I'm saying. So when do you think your a garage gym then? Yeah, I'm not saying it but I was before coupe is what? Yeah, yeah

When do you think your first garage gym was it was I believe oh one or oh two I started it in my parents garage and what happened was I was so sick of Gyms that started converting to fitness and they stopped playing that started converting to fitness and they stopped playing CDs and they took out the cassette tapes. And so what happened is in that mid to late nineties, you know, I would read bodybuilding magazines and then all of a sudden I'm at, you know, Barnes and Noble and I see fitness fit, like a fitness magazine. I'm like, what the fuck is fitness?

I thought there's bodybuilding and powerlifting. And there was these dudes that were like 160 pounds, 170 pounds. I was like this. And then all of a sudden that became popular. And I swear to you, it was like hardcore gyms were like the devil. And all of a sudden you saw the gyms trying to soften up to appeal to everyone, including hardcore gyms. And I started trying to go from one gym to the next. And they just, the atmospheres were so shitty. I said, you know what? I'm gonna make this gym, speaking of eighties, I'm gonna make it look like tough gym in Rocky three,

like the hood. Yeah. Yeah. That was my dream. Yeah. like the hood yeah that was my dream yeah and now do you own what is it underground strength gym you run yeah so how long has that existed in like relatively its current capacity then this location next month is the 12th year because I remember signing the lease after a big hurricane hit this town. That's a long time for a gym.

You know, it's crazy to see the lack of staying power in the gym business because, you know, sometimes if you are, I was just having this conversation with some of my buddies who have been in the business for a while. We spoke about some of these coaches that were great, that opened up their gyms and then they shut it down because they're like, I can't stand this business. I don't want to convince somebody to get strong.

I don't want to make a video and turn it into all this fancy shit when that's not what I stand for. I just reposted something from Henry Rollins talking about music. And I was like, man, this is like the strength and conditioning industry just kind of, it like became less from the heart and more of like, what's this person? What's this popular post person posting? Maybe I should do that. Or I should just do a weird exercise with this kid and record

it. And even though he doesn't know this 15 year old 120 pound kid should do one legged med ball slams. That's like the lift and they make those videos. And it's like when I started out of my parents' garage, I was just finding a place for me. And I actually was thinking about it today, ironically, because I went to Costco. I know you guys are the big big Costco fan. So what is that thing? The chicken bake? I mean, as a protein per chicken

bake, I don't want to disappoint you guys. But I was there kind of early. So it was like 11. I was like, I don't know if I want that. So I got pizza. And I like 11. I was like, I don't know if I want that. So I got pizza and I ate pizza. I know I felt like I needed a nap all day and I'm like, you can't take a nap. You should have got the chicken bake. I mean, you can't really blame anyone but yourself. That's right.

That's right. I've been like gluten bombed and I just was like, felt useless the whole rest of the day. And all I thought about was like, you know, you saw, did you, you know, speaking of movies, what about like current day? You ever see substitute teacher on YouTube from key and peel? You must have seen it. God, I don't even know what I'm doing on this podcast anymore. Well,

he pretends to be, you know, he's a substitute teacher, but he's a comedian. And anytime like a kid says something wrong, he's like, son of a bitch. And he just like snapping clipboards. And after I ate that pizza, all I was thinking to myself was like, son of a bitch, I was falling asleep driving home. I was like, what the hell is in that pizza? Killed me, man. It killed, I should have got, I will never do that again.

I will do that. What is it called? Chicken? What chicken bake? Once you go chicken bake, you never go back. So I'll do it. Even though I, I worried like, well, you know, now that the internet is like you, you Google anything and you're like, you can Google anything. And after a few results, it's always tells you like, you'll die. So what, what, what chicken I'll Google what chicken is in the Costco chicken bake. And then you're like, yeah, I should be. Yes. So I was in Costco and I saw these space years and I was

like, dang, I remember buying space heaters. I think it was called Costco back then maybe it was still called price Club. I had one in my parents' garage and it could not heat up that garage for the life of me. Not as cold as, where are you guys? Western Northeast, Western Northeast South Dakota. South Dakota. It's about to get really cold here within a couple months.

I know. It's been nice so far. So yeah, usually you just want to pay for it later. I've heard of the brutal weather out there. There's actually a great New Jersey wrestler coaching at university, South Dakota, or maybe South Dakota. Who's the Jackrabbit? That's South Dakota state.

Yeah. Yeah. In Brookings, South Dakota. Okay. Yeah, they got a pretty good wrestling team there. Legendary New Jersey wrestler, Damien Hahn. Okay. Yeah.

They, so do they have a good wrestling program, Tommy? Excellent. They're the big 12 for wrestling. Um, they've had a couple, was it last year, a couple of years ago, I think they had their first individual champ and they've had a couple, a couple of pretty good guys lately. So they've had a good run. So before he was there, the current staff that's at Wisconsin was at South Dakota state, Damien Han,

Jersey guy wrestled in Minnesota coach that Cornell for awhile. So he's used to all cold weather places and, uh, he's out there making you guys proud. Yeah, excellent. Yep. They're doing it. So I was saying, I saw the space heaters and I had one of them and it wouldn't heat up the garage. I mean, my garage was literally and figuratively freezing. So I was like, I'll get another one and I'll maybe bump up the temperature 10 degrees. And I plug in the second one and I turn it on

and it shorts the whole house. And I hear my dad screaming, he's like, Zach. And I was like, bring, I'm just gonna freeze my ass off. And I was training with winter gloves. I mean, I'm a real man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, something I didn't. Well, I don't even know if we said this. This is Big Zach Evan Ash on the podcast. We just hop right into it. So let's get back to that. For anyone that doesn't know this is Big Zach, you probably saw the episode title in the picture by now also. So you're probably not going going into it blind but just in case we didn't we

didn't formally we didn't specifically mention that I don't think. He's jumped right in I hacked the whole intro. What me and what Tommy and I both noticed this is actually crazy you know we've had hundreds of guests on here before and a whole bunch of people that have like done their own podcasts and you know that make content and do all this stuff. You've got to be the first person that we've ever looked at and be like this guy actually has more podcast episodes than us, which that's insane because we have this is episode 449. So there's not that many people in general that have more podcast episodes than us,

but you have more. You've posted on Instagram more than we have, which there's also not a whole lot of people in the space. There is no pride in that. But I mean, it still takes a consistency and like over a really long period of time to be able to do that. And then you actually have more YouTube videos than us,

which there's not a ton of those out there too. So it's like, uh, I started it's very long ago. Yeah. And, uh, like, so, so what about the podcast specifically strong life podcast? You have like 470 some episodes. How long ago did you start that? I remember when I started it, I didn't even have a name. I was like starting it as a video podcast. There was no Zoom. I was using, it wasn't even Skype. It was something else. That's the almost the problem with starting so long ago

is you start using some sort of software and then it just disappears. Like they don't even sell the company. It was just like they disappear, which I could respect that. I like that. I like that kind of exit. I'm like, you don't even say goodbye. All of a sudden you're trying to log in

and the website is like completely obsolete. So I was starting it as a video cast. And I think I just called it the strong cast. And my first interview may have been Martin Rooney or Eric Cressy. You know, they were either number one or number two. And Martin Rooney during the episode, we were talking about training for life. He's like, that's what you should call this podcast training for life.

And I really don't know why I didn't. And I think I've always been I like to be totally transparent of the ups and downs. So the underground strength gym started in like 2002, but it technically didn't start calling it that until about oh five, I think, or oh four. And sometimes I'm like, did I name my podcast wrong? Is the gym name wrong? Like I've always rethought everything. And I remember when I heard mass anomics, I was like, man, it's such a simple, cool name.

It's not, it's just, it's just Massenomics. That's it. And so I started that podcast as a video. And then I can't even remember the name of the software that I finally got that allowed me to record the video and pull the audio. And so it's gotta be, if we're in the year 2024, it must've been, I don't know, 2011. I'd have to look at that YouTube video with Martin and Martin Rooney and Eric Cressy. Whenever that was, was the beginning of it. And there weren't too many podcasts out.

Mark Bell had the power. He called. Yes. He called it power cast. Were you on that at one point in time? Oh yeah. I went out there. Mark and I came up on the early days of a lead FTS Q and a team and he, he had like an undercover name called Jackass because he was allowed to talk about steroid use and

he would joke about everything and it angered people and like it infuriated people. So there were forums where people were like talking about how like, I'm going to, when I find out who Jackass is, I'll fucking, I will fucking kill him. It's like funniest names. And so the Q and A team for elite FTS had like division one strength coaches, but they had undercover monikers because of the NCAA violations and all this crap. So Joe Ken was Coach 62, Buddy Morris was Coach X. You know, like great, great, like undercover names. But the smelly, his, I guess like his profile image was like, it was a jackass. And that's who he was as a pro wrestler. That's why.

Yeah. Okay. It's called Jackass. That's good. So, I mean- Dan's like, let's Jackass. That's good. So, like, let's move on. No, no, I'm just still circling back.

Like the most impressive thing when you throw out the dates is that just that you have like, what, what's the secret? What's the recipe for success for doing all of it for that long? When we see so many people come and go and kind of all those spaces, I think a couple of things. Number one, I honestly like struggle with quitting, which could be a bad thing in business. In business, you know, sometimes you have to quit, probably better to do what's called pivot so you could rebrand and change things and still try to

utilize old content. And sometimes, you know, you're just, I'm stubborn and possibly too dumb to, you know, to quit things. And so I think what would have been very helpful for me in the earlier years was I didn't want to do it kind of like I was mentioning strength coaches who hate business. You're like, man, I just want to coach. And then all of a sudden you find yourself editing videos and trying to figure out how to be a graphic artist. And you're like, that's not my unique ability.

And so there weren't really resources. Like today I want to get a thumbnail done. I contact Fiverr or I need a video done. That's getting a bit expensive or maybe even way expensive, but the ticket is you just got to stay the course. It would be like us telling somebody how to get strong. We would never say, Hey guys, when it gets hard, I just want you to quit and give up. You know, we're like, you got, you have to think long-term.

I do think now in business, it's very tricky to think long-term because we don't know what technology is going to change. Like, for example, you guys are making, I love these, the highlights of the strongman. I feel like I came across a video today of a guy talking about AI, how like it will outsmart every human and computer in five years, I feel like we're going to just speak into a mic and just say, give me a 30 second highlight of John Paul Sigmar Sin, and it's going to do it. And that's to kickstart by like, exactly, time the sequence that it goes along. And also put a funny caption on it. And it's like, yeah, it does the whole thing for you.

Well, have you guys used chat GBT ever just between us? I mean, I mean, we do use it for like certain things for brainstorming a lot, though, like we'll have like maybe some, right. And it's not, uh, I don't think we've ever even spit anything out exactly that the way it's ever come from chubby GPT. But it's almost like sometimes if we're stuck on a ball if we don't have the ball rolling, it gets us rolling a little bit.

And we've worked together for so long where we kind of, at times maybe our minds are like always sort of on the same track where chat GPT kind of brings in a, maybe a different angle on things. Right. Yes. And you wonder like- So as a resource, it makes some sense, you know.

Correct. It'll spit something out for you, you'll tweak it up. And then you're like, is that what I'm supposed to be writing? You know, at least me, I overthink a lot of things. And so, um, you know, secret to success, you know, I, I've somebody interviewed me. I can't remember who it was. I wish I remember, but I said, you know, every day I do not feel like a success. I don't feel like I am achieving, you know, any sort of

success where I'm like, all right, man, we're doing pretty good here. Now. I don't feel that way. I'm always like, man, I got to impact a lot more people. I'll look at a great video we make. And I'm like, 500 views. What is that? And then this guy who's fucking shown how he's eating something in his kitchen has 5 million views. I'm like, I don't know what it is. Somebody made a real interesting comment. They were like, man, why do your videos not have views? This stuff's awesome. And the guy said, he's like, it's too real. It's just too practical. He's like, there's nothing that's like shocking. It's not a hook. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, is he right? And I will not go down that rabbit hole of like, for example,

everybody made this dumb reaction video to the guy who was joking the dude or whatever. I was like, I will not do that shit. Even if you pay me because then you're like housewives of New Jersey, you're just doing your drama. Like my job is to talk about training. Like if he wants to choke him, that's between you guys. I don't know how we need 500 reaction videos and those videos are getting viewed. And I think to myself, I don't want that viewer because he's not interested in me saying this is how you get strong. Yeah, he's interested in drama between two men.

And I was like, oh man, this shit is sad. Yeah. You brought up the old school strong man videos, which I've been absolutely. Love them. I love making the old school strong man videos. It's like my favorite thing right now. But, so we're from South Dakota, we're the Mount Rushmore state.

So we play this game with everyone where it's pick your Mount Rushmore. So you gotta pick the top four of something. So for you, I wanna say, what would be your Mount Rushmore of old school strong men? And that's kind of a vague term. And the other thing I'd say about Mount Rushmore doesn't necessarily have to mean the best. You know, it's whatever gets them on your Mount Rushmore, doesn't necessarily have to mean the best,

you know, it's whatever gets him on your Mount Rushmore, whatever the reason is. Yeah, I don't remember a lot of names, so you see me looking here, I'm looking at books. I would tell you who I'm gonna put on there. I had this conversation with guys just before. He's not even a strong man, but he was so, he's such a badass.

I would put Ross Enomite on my Mount Rushmore because if somebody got loud with him, he would just fuck him up. He'd like knock him out. You know? So he's not a strong man, but he is strong AF, like all his training. So I would have to put Ross Enomite on there. I'm trying to like look into old. I would go with John Grimick. We're gonna put John Grimick on there. Silver era bodybuilder. Then, I'm totally messing this up. No, that's what you have your druthers.

Yep, I love John Paul Singerson because his passion fired me up. Now, I can't remember all the, and I have some funny stories about, I know you guys said like you do this recording late when your kids go to bed. I'll tell you a funny story about strong men and kids going to bed. So I said Ross enemy, he's not even a strong man competitor, but he would be good with fighting.

So he would have been good in like the late seventies, uh, the earliest world strongs man, like throwing the tire, bending steel, wrestling guys. He would have been there tug of war. Man, I'm so tempted to say Bill Kazmaier, but I feel like I got to go with somebody else. I mean, Bill was banned from competing. Let's look around. Let's look at some old books here. Oh, man, who would I go with?

World's strong. What does it have to be like? They had can't compete past the 90s Um, I'm gonna need to decide to the 90s Early 90s like I don't feel like 1999 as old-school strong man, right? I think the cutoff is like Early well, I so I kind of blew it because Ross enemite is like my age so he can't do it Well, I, so I kind of blew it because Ross Anomite is like my age, so he can't do it. All right. So John Grimmick did not compete in world's strongest man. Cause he's a little bit older at that time, but if we gave him a little 10, 10 years. Guy, he could have done it.

All right. A guy was strong AF. So let's go with, let's go with John Paul Sigmersen. Yeah. Trying to think of some of the guys they competed against. Um, Jeff Capes just passed away. I'd have to study the videos guys. I wish I knew the, I wish I had the Cliff notes to this exam before.

And I'm trying to see some of my old books. I don't have any old strongman, but I'm going to say this. I who's the John Kolb beat Bill Casmyer in the tug of war. I met John's son last summer. Yeah. His son's a strength coach at West Virginia, West Virginia university.

I did a lot. Nate got a lot. I'm at a, I'm stumped. I'm just going with John Paul Sigurdsson. He's the king. Bill Casmyer. I don't know something about me is stopping from voting him in, even though

he was just such a savage. The one thing I've, I would bring up and I mostly know this because since I've been making these videos, I, they get so many comments and people that like have something to say about every single person. And, uh, you know, the story I'd always heard on Bill Casavanaugh with World's Strongest Man is that they didn't invite him back. He was banned because he won too much, you know, he was winning and nobody can compete with them. Right.

Well, some of the people that I've seen in the comments more recently say, yeah, that's not what happened. Bill was such a Dick to everyone there and like, uh, cursed out the wrong people too many times. Sure. And they said, you're not cut. We don't care if you're the best word. You're not coming back to world's strongest man anymore.

I don't know. That's just a rumor. Yes. I think I've heard similar. Yeah. And I, and it's, I think it's okay to talk about rumors when they're like from the seventies, because that is just like funny. Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, why don't you just say to his face? Uh, we've talked to Kaz to his face enough, but I would not say something like that to Kaz's face. Yeah. I know. I still fear that guy. Yeah.

It's interesting how we hear stories of kind of guys from back in the day. What happened? What did they do? And I think there was like a point in time where I don't know if he lives in Alaska now, but he was living somewhere in Europe and was just trying to, really struggling to make ends meet. He was just trying to do some seminars. And sometimes those older lifters and athletes get forgotten about, but I have such an admiration for them because they got strong on the most simplistic methods with the most like elementary style, quote unquote, support equipment. I mean, you know, knee sleeves were like ace bandages wrapped around your knees.

And so it blows my mind how strong they became or like Pat Casey benching 600 pounds on that little flimsy bench. Okay, I love me some super de-fat pad, but Pat Casey, I mean, talk about how strong your body must be to do it on such shitty equipment. That blows my mind. It's amazing. Yes. What's your best ultimate warrior Um, what's your, uh, what's your best ultimate warrior story or your favorite ultimate warrior story? Well, I've got a lot of him because him and I were friends became pretty close where we would speak on the phone probably every other day. He was very passionate and I was thinking today,

I've always got a million things running through my mind. You know, I was like, what really connected me to him was I didn't watch pro wrestling as a kid. I never watched that stuff, but I came across his YouTube videos when he started putting them out. And I remember the video I came across first was the my passion is fucking passion. And I thought to myself, man, now I actually feel normal because I'm very passionate and when you're passionate, it tends to turn people off.

It bothers people. People don't like you for whatever reason. And I saw that video, watched it. I don't know how many times trained in my home gym here at this house. This is my been living here 15 years. I don't have how many times trained in my home gym here at this house. This is my been living here 15 years. I don't have a home gym anymore. Back then my kids were probably your age kids now. So I had a lot of room in the garage. I remember training in my garage, like playing that video at like 10 at night. And my wife's like, what's going on in here? Like, don't you know I'm fucking crazy?

That's what I do. And so I emailed him after that, and that's how we connected. So we worked together. He spoke at my underground strength conference, which I did 12 years ago. We're doing the next one in like 10 days. And the next- It's in New York, right?

It's in New York, but it's like right on the border of New Jersey. It's almost like, it's like a technicality. You go two blocks away, you're in New Jersey. And so he spoke at the first Underground Strength Con. And the next day, we held this, it's not even an event, it was the beginning of something he was trying to put in a place called Warrior University where people would apply to work with him, but they knew that they were going to go through like a tough physical challenge and then he would talk to them about the mindset. And so it kind of imploded. It really went bad in a lot of ways. Just things

like a cameraman was supposed to show up. He didn't show up. Ultimate Warrior really blew a fuse about that. Then he had the attendees walk from a hotel to my first location. I had that location for about 10 years before I moved it. And on the way, this like five mile walk, the second cameraman, who was the only cameraman at the time, collapsed. He was like obese and overweight. So one of Ultimate Warrior's friends had to like pick up the camera and I wasn't with them on the trip but I think they had to basically call 911 to get somebody to pick up the camera guy. And then when they get to the gym, he really like flips the switch and goes Warrior Mode. It's not an act. And I'm kind of look training the guys but you have some one guy or two guys that are fit

some guys and then some guys that are like can't do a push-up well he starts having them do all kinds of exercise I'm like oh my god they're gonna they're gonna break their back this guy's gonna have a heart attack so one guy's ready to quit. Ultimate Warrior flips out on him. We go towards the gym. I had trained them on the front lawn of the gym next door with like all these body weight exercises. I'm telling them, all right, now you're going to take out all these kettlebells, all these sleds, and you're going to move it with a flat back. And he goes, fuck your flat back. And I screamed at him. I was like, oh man somebody's gonna friggin break their back today and it's just a

Miracle that nobody got hurt. So if you saw you guys probably see the video that people keep like doing Memes out of where he's like you do these 20 rep squats, you know get low your shit over all that Is he's screaming at everybody. That's exactly what went on for the two hours of training. Just nonstop, like flipping the F out on everybody. And I don't even go into the training because it didn't go well. We were supposed to work together, but as soon as it started, he just went to this crazy level. And, uh, in my opinion, I was like, man, this

shit is so dangerous that if we were to do it together again and again, it would give somebody a heart attack. Yeah. Crazy. So I don't know if that's my favorite story, but that's a good story Fuck your flat back that new t-shirt guys See you Trained and coached a lot of people a lot of athletes. I suppose probably some people that have gotten injured before Oh, yeah, so I just I'm about two weeks post ACL surgery What would your best advice be for someone like me? We just had a, I just visited one of my eighth grade athletes who tore his ACL plus meniscus.

Oh yeah, I had that too, I guess. So are you on crutches for six weeks Tanner? Oh no. So he had the meniscus down to the roots. So mine, they just had to clean my meniscus up, but they didn't prior to to the surgery they didn't know how bad the meniscus was because you couldn't tell by the MRI so they said to be a game time decision yeah did not have to do that to that extent so I did not get but if they would have I would have been stuck on crutches for six weeks which is like I'm crazy yeah I'm two weeks and I'm down to

one crutch I'm hoping within the next week I'll be mostly off crutches. Well, I think the rehab now is much more advanced. I had my ACL repaired. I'm almost 49. I think I was like 27. And what I remember clear as day is my first visit to the doctor, I remember telling my girlfriend, now my wife, I was telling Danielle, I'm like, Danielle, I think I'm gonna cancel my first doctor's appointment. I can't even walk

with these crutches. I'm in so much pain. And she's like, you can't miss the first appointment. You got to go. I get there, like hobble in, I'm sweating. And he's like, I'll take these. He takes the crutches. And he's like, you cannot be on. He takes the crutches and he's like, you cannot be on these crutches anymore. You have to load the ligament. And I was like, I can't walk with the crutches. Now you're taking them away?

He's like, yes. And so things that I didn't know back then, that was kind of, I wasn't even in like fully strengthening initials, starting to research it, but I would do all the like fully strengthening initials, starting to research it, but I would do all the recovery stuff that you can, such as electric stim. So you could buy one online or you could buy even like a kind of crappy one from a CVS or buy one on Amazon, but I would be crushing that stim on your quad, hamstring, like different areas to make it light up.

And then physical therapy. Did you start PT yet? Yeah, I've got three down. I'm doing two to three a week right now, actually. And so I'd be walking every day. I mean, if they're okay with you getting rid of the crutch, I would start walking. I remember later this week, we're going to do like parallel bar walking, you know, where I've got the option of hanging on. So I believe I saw that in like a Steven Seagal movie. Probably was like, he was probably, yeah, he was under like, yeah, he was in like, um, he was in a coma or something.

He came back to kick everyone's ass. Exactly. And so now you know exactly what you need to do. But I would be doing, start walking as much as you can. I would crush their rehab. And I would say to your physical therapist, tell him, give me extra stuff. And then Louis Simmons, I actually started talking with Louis Simmons

a couple of months after my ACL surgery. And he's like, uh, telling me, okay, you got to drag a sled, of course. And see Donnie, Donnie says, Thompson said kind of same thing. He's, you know, he just had both. He's replaced and he's, uh, big into dragging a sled pretty much as soon as he can on that. Because when you're dragging that sled, you're doing that leg curl motion. Your hamstring is like the stabilizer of the knee. And so I bought a sled from Louie.

Well, when, when this would happen, Louie would be on the phone with you. And then he'd shout for Doris to pick up the phone and she would complete the order over the phone. I always tell the story people love it. He sent me a sled, no box. It had a book of stamps taped to the sled and the strap was like had Saram wrap around it so it was like around the, uh, the plate holder and it just showed up on the, and as soon as I got it, I took a 25 pound plate.

I went to the park and I was dragging the sled. I remember he told me, he's like, you got to drag that sled for you start off trying to get a mile. He's like, then you build up to 30 minutes nonstop. So I would go to the park. I was doing something for the legs every day. And then I got like, quote unquote, pulled over by a park ranger on a horse. He was like, what is this? Like it was so foreign to them to see that kind of stuff that he's like, you can't do this here. They thought I was like, you can't exercise here. Yeah. Yeah. I was like a hell's angels. He's like, you got to leave. I'm like, you can't exercise here. Yeah. Yeah. I was like a hell's angels. He's like,

you gotta leave. I'm like, I'm just, yeah, no different than somebody running on the grass. They made me leave. It was crazy. And so I started just dragging that sled out in front of my parents' house. I mean, I remember hearing going like, so electric stim, they probably do the, do they do the compression on your leg? Bless you. You mean, yeah, you mean like I'm wearing like a compression sleeve right now. Oh, okay. No. And last time, cause I tore my other ACL about five years ago and that therapy I thought

is interesting then we did quite a bit of blood flow restriction training. Yep. And while they kind of same people and they're like, yeah, we kind of decided we don't like that as well. And they're not really pushing me to do it this time. I would, um, you know, there's always on YouTube now there's some great like physical therapists. I call them performance physical therapists. Donnie Thompson works with a couple of those guys. So I don't know if you're in touch with Tim O'Neill. He's one of his trusted guys. If not, I'll put you in touch with him. It'll be interesting to hear what he says. And then there's guys that I know they have multiple

locations. And every one of them is not just a doctor of PT, they're a former athlete and they're strength coaches. So it's called resilient physical therapy. You could reach out to those guys. They're all on Instagram, but I take my son to them because he had last year, little leaguer's shoulder. And so if I took my, I took my son to other people and basically what they were doing was like kind of this random cut and pasting of, you know, Kelly's starts old mobility watt videos. So I was

like, I got to get my son to the best. I know the best guys. They're just not close. And I said, I don't care. I'll, I'll drive up to you guys. So it's like an hour and 15 minutes away and the rehab they do for him is a hundred times more advanced. They're kind of working on him on the table with massage. I've seen a lot of blood flow restriction with the pitchers on the arms. So that's why it would be interesting to hear what they do for ACL. Now then they transition him into the weight room and he's doing med ball throwing and stability work. So they, I find that like the kind of, uh, the conservative physical therapists, they treat too many people like they're senior citizens. You got to get

customer most of the time too, you know, that they, they see more often than that, dude, you mentioned, Hey, you must train a lot of athletes at my high school, not this season, the previous fall between football and girls soccer, I think there was five ACL tears and I posted something on Twitter and Kelly Sturrett texted me. He's like, Hey, he's like, great job blowing up Twitter today. So it was before it was X. I said, I said, a physical therapist, is it common that after you work with, you know, an athlete post ACL tear that nine to 10 months later, they cannot do

a full body weight squat. That's what's my question. And it blew up, you know, people were like, and you know what somebody who said to me, he goes, problem is that's how they keep getting paid. So they just string the kid along. But I'm like, dude, after my ACL tear, I know a month later I was doing walking lunges. Yeah. They had me doing like sitting on a, on a chair with wheels, doing leg curls. Um,

I was doing all kinds of like squat type movements. And, uh, now knowing what I know now, when somebody's kind of getting segwayed out of PT, we do a lot of isometric holds, we do a ton of sled work, we do band leg curls, we'll do back extensions on the 45 degree angle, but we'll bump up the hip pad so you're not having as much pressure. I would also selfishly reach out to somebody like Brett Contreras, even though he trains women. People forget that Brett is a PhD and they forget that he's a nerd. He researches. So he doesn't just say, hey, I'm just doing this because it's, you know, helps your butt get big. He does research and he reads research.

So it'll be interesting to hear what he has picked up with like such an emphasis on his style of training. Yep. is actually really good for athletes. He just doesn't do all the plyometric training and the speed work, but it would probably be very good for rebuilding muscle and just getting the body to rebuild. So yeah, man, I would look at, I would kind of cheat. I would just go to like anybody you know who you could ask. Yep, call in all the experts. Call in the A-Team, Yeah. Okay, that's good Ah Tommy, what do you think about overrated underrated? Let's do it

All right, big Zach other game that we play with every guest that we have on here is overrated underrated So we got a special Zach Evan Ash set of topics It's just your job to decide if each one is overrated or underrated the most important part You have to remember is you can't ride the line Yes, definitively fall in one camp or the other, even if you don't want to. So overrated or underrated, uh, the Jersey shore, the TV show. Overrated. Horrific.

Is that what life is like there? I'm in quote unquote the Jersey shore. They're like 20 minutes south of us, which is a, I think they were in seaside, which is known for like a lot of outsiders coming in and kind of a lot of that pipe type stuff. But the Jersey shore was, you still see that you still see a lot of the burritos with like the arms and stuff. There's a town next to us called Belmar.

And, uh, if you pull up on YouTube, there's this video of these guys traveling from feel like they're coming from Staten Island And they're going to Belmar I could ride my bike to Belmar and there's this pumping club called DJ's and he's like Yeah, we're going to DJ's and everybody in the back is like And then they're singing he's, he doesn't even spell it. It's B Bellmar B E L M R. He's like, B L M A R. And they got like the club music going. And when you see that you're like, Oh my God, it's embarrassing.

So I don't tell people I live in the Jersey shore, although I do. So when like, when the show was big, I mean, was it like 2010 ish? Was that when it was really like popping off? I think I mean, it was a cultural phenomenon. Like did did like did you notice that from a local standpoint? Like, I moved to this to the Jersey Shore 15 years ago because my son is 16 and a half. So yeah, I mean, you anytime somebody Oh, I'm from New Jersey, you from the Jersey Shore. I mean, it was, it was country wide and a buddy of mine, he just sold his gym and he was about 25 minutes

north of me, maybe more. And one of the dudes from that show trained there. And do you remember the names? I can't remember. Ron, there was like the situation. It's Mike, Mike, the situation. Yeah. And he was the most popular, I suppose. He's like, Mike is a very mature kid. He, you know, obviously he grew up. He's very mature. He makes a lot of money and he, because he leveraged this social media influence with partnerships. You get a sponsor by companies and he lives in I think he's in like the Red Bank area, which is kind of near like John Bon Jovi live in that area.

It's called the Navisync. It's off a river, but he's in somewhere in that area. I think he's got a million dollar home. He's doing all right. He had, he had big arms. My buddy who's Jim, you would have loved this gym. He, he, he sold it because his son, um, son graduated with an MBA, his son and him, his son basically ran it. They opened up a dispensary, like a super high end, beautiful dispensary. Well his gym was on the waterfront and the downstairs was all old York equipment, deep

dish equipment. He's the guy that I did a video podcast with in the early part of the summer called old school gyms, old school lessons. He grew up in a very tough area of New Jersey. And then the area that he built his gym in was tough. But what's happening is in New Jersey, anything that's like waterfront starts getting kind of bought up by investors and it just, you know, starts getting built up with big homes, restaurants, all that stuff, especially since COVID with people not having to commute to New York City for work, a lot of people said, you know what, I only got to go to the city twice a week, once a week, I'm moving down to the beach.

And so, yeah, people who are making a lot of money came into this area and really built it up. But Mike, the situation I think is doing really well. And he's pretty strong. There's videos of him training with my buddy, who was a powerlifter. He's I think 55. He grew up in the eighties in like a powerlifting area. And so he taught Mike had a really lift the right way He said Mike is pretty damn strong That's cool. Okay overrated or underrated iron island milled York's

Underrated I have a pair do you know I have a pair I thought I heard you might have a pair of iron I know the York so could you explain what's the story with people? I never heard of them. Not your everyday milled York. Well, well son, Tommy, first of all, I struggle with answering questions succinctly. Like somebody asked me a question and it's like 30 minutes later. And then I'm like, it's probably people get bothered by it, but I have so much running

through my head. So I knew of Dr. Ken. That's bad. Let's take it back guys. Okay. Dr. Ken Leisner was very inspiring to me because of his passion. To me, I love people who are passionate. I don't agree fully with always being a high intensity trainer. But when I opened my first location, the first warehouse in 2007, it was the fall, maybe a little early in this, like around September, early October, and I had groups at five, six and seven. And so I'm training a group around 730. And I have this small gym and I had been making videos, my early YouTube videos started in 2006. And so I see this big, very tall guy kind of hovering around outside the gym, just kind of like going back and forth, seeing what we're doing. We got the garage door open.

So I just go out and introduce myself and I ask him, hey, do you got any questions about anything? He goes, you know, I've been watching your YouTube videos. I love what you're doing. And I wanted to bring you a gift. And he had a shopping bag of several three ring binders of the old Dino files. Those are Brooks Cubics dinosaur training files print. And he had a bunch of VHS tapes. So I go home, I thank him. I'm so grateful for the gift. I actually really struggle when people gift me with stuff. But I go home and I pop in this training video.

And one of them was Brooks Cubic VHS and two of them were Dr. Ken. And one of them was called the Iron island, like fourth of July massacre. So like on the holidays, they're like in his gym called iron Island. And Dr. Ken had, I believe I don't quote me. It's either 200 or 400 pairs of 45 pound iron iron plates. They're York plates. And a Bert Soren's dad, pop Soren, helped him design it, helped York design it. So those plates were in his gym, Iron Island.

Now I don't know the story because I never met Dr. Ken in person, but I met a lot of people who knew him and from also I read Milo. You guys ever read Milo from Iron Mind? Of course. Yeah, I read Milo. You guys ever read Milo from Iron Mine? Of course. Yeah, I actually have that. I don't know how much of it I've actually read, but I have the book. It's one of the ones we-

Oh, you have the book. He would write for the magazine that Iron Mine had every month. Oh, okay. Quarterly, so it was Milo. So I believe I had read from his article, he said he was just tired of the gym business. He was tired of being more motivated than people.

He was tired of people paying him and they wouldn't do the work. So he sold off his gym to the partner. And 12 years ago, I mentioned Hurricane Sandy. You guys just saw like the hurricane that was down in the Carolinas. What you see on TV never does justice to what you see in person. So when the hurricane hit our town, we're a beach town, it destroyed a mile of homes. People were traveling the streets on stand-up paddleboards and jet skis. So during Hurricane Sandy, it impacted Long Island and supposedly, I don't know if it flooded,

but water got into the gym and the guy who was a partner of Dr. Ken, I think he sold them all or sold a certain amount of them. And so a long time ago, I saw some of them for sale on Craigslist. Maybe it was on eBay, but I feel like it was Craigslist. And it was something like, I don't know, maybe 16 or 20 pairs of them. And I saw them and I was just like, ah, you know, like it's a lot of money. I want them, but do I need them? No, I don't need them. I want them. So I let it go. Then a little bit later, I see them pop up again. And I was like, I had, I have a Dr. Ken articles from muscular development magazines from the mid eighties. And I just loved his

stories. Like he grew up in Zoos gym, you know, helping them make a quick hit. Just to me, he was so like, he was the Henry Rollins of strength training. You know, that's what I really loved about Dr. Kenny wasn't a fucking nerd. He was about being strong and tough. And I'm more interested in the stories beyond the equipment who used it. What is the history? You know, I always think like that. So some guy was selling them in Long Island and the story is very strange. He had, he may have had eight or four pairs left. I feel like it was not a lot and Long Island for me could be an hour and a half, could be two hour and a half drive with the traffic. And so a

pair was like 400 bucks, something like that, 450 bucks. I meet him and what happened was that guy had bought all of them and then he sold them. Then he got into a divorce and he needed the money to pay the lawyers. So he buys whatever he can back and then flips them for more money. And when I was there, he was going to sell me. So I think it was 450 bucks. He goes, you want to buy another pair? It'll be 800 bucks. I'm like, dude, my wife to sell me. So I think it was 450 bucks. He goes, you want to buy another pair? It'll be 800 bucks. I'm like, dude, my wife will stab me.

She's going to be like, what's that? Why do you need to buy this equipment? So I bought that pair and many people, they see the video of it, or they just see it in the background and they offer money. People have offered me a lot of money. They, I can't remember what price they've put on it. I tell them, no money you could give me. I don't even want 10,000 bucks because that goes fast, especially when you have kids and buying all the diapers and food, you're like, $10,000.

I don't sell it, but somebody offered me $10,000 for my 150 pound globe dumbbell. He's like, come on, there's a price for everything. I was like, actually, no, like I wouldn't sell it. I'm not enticed by money, you know, even, you know, I don't know, a hundred grand. I don't know. I just feel like when you're an entrepreneur, you're like, I could just, you know, I can come up with ways to make it. Yeah. But that there has, nobody's ever seen 150 pound globe dumbbell now. So iron Island was known for just the tough training. So that video after he passed away, people started sharing it. Some of his former students, it's on YouTube.

I have one of them on YouTube, but, um, one of my favorites from the VHS was he, uh, I made a video about, it was the first video I ever made that people got mad at me for. And it was called like, um, pretty boy bot, you know, like functional. I was something versus pretty boy, real world training versus pretty boy bodybuilding. And so he's training in the Virginia tech football team and, uh, Mike Gentry was the coach and the strength coach. And so he's training the Virginia tech football team. And Mike Gentry was the coach, the strength coach. And so Mike Gentry's nickname was Iron Mike. And so I'm friends with a guy who played football under iron Mike, and then became an assistant strength coach under iron Mike.

And he's like, dude, that was called, um, I forget what the challenge, it was called the Ironman challenge. It was in the summer in Virginia, hot as all heck. And he's like, dude, even if you won it, your trophy was an anvil. So he's like, the reward is more work. You have to fucking carry the anvil. But that competition is like, they sprinted the stadium stairs with a weight vest. They did farmer walks with heavy dumbbells. They did, they called it a swamp walk. They had those crash pads that are normally used for gymnastics.

You had to like carry a tackling dummy across, run back, carry like two to three piles of sandbags back. And so when you're running on crash pads, it's like leg press, leg press, leg press. And then they did tire flip, but not like three or five reps. They flipped it the whole football field. Like they completely like broke the rules of like today people would be like, well, that's not optimal. It should only be three reps because you're losing power. They were like, we will fight to the death. We will train to the death. And when I saw those videos I was so like it brought me to life. I was like, oh my god And so I still have those VHS tapes

I still have the dinosaur training files and there's something beautiful about the breaking the rules of training and Dr. Ken was doing strongman training in the seventies. I mean, technically he was doing it in the late sixties at Zuvers Gym, but he started implementing odd object training by welding equipment together in the seventies for football players. And so, you know, I came across strongman training

from that, CJ Murphy, we call him Murphy, owns Total Performance Sports in Massachusetts. He had Sven Carlsen at his gym. He would hold seminars in the 90s with these kind of guys. And so there's been many, many people way before me. I just got super hungry to get a hold of their information. And so those ironed island plates, I just think of all the history behind who used them. And they're beautiful. To me, that's everything. When I buy weights, I think, oh, did a grandfather buy this barbell set for his skinny grandson who was getting bullied at school? And he's like, listen, you could going to do this York list of exercises. And then when Tommy says something to you and you gained 20 pounds of muscle,

you will kick his fucking ass. You know, that's how I think about equipment and what is the history behind everything. So I started buying used, you know, vintage type stuff in the early 2000s. And back then people weren't calling it collectors, places, and people were calling it junk. I was buying it for like 15 cents a pound. Yeah. They were just trying to get rid of it.

It was too heavy taking up room. They called it junk. There was a place in Asbury Park that had this downstairs and it was old YMCAs cleaned out, old high school weight rooms cleaned out, and it was a ton of York and Dan Lurie equipment. Dan Lurie was a Brooklyn, Brooklyn, New York equipment manufacturer, but York everywhere. One thing that has eluded me, which is crazy because I didn't live too far away from it, was Jackson plates. Andy Jackson made those plates in Springfield, New Jersey, which was very close to where Pop Soren grew up. For me, it was about 25 minutes

away and I have never even seen a pair of Jackson plates for sale in my 20 plus years of collecting stuff. So it just shows me like the amount of York equipment that was put out there versus Jackson is like infinitely more than Jackson. Yet those Jackson plates are beautiful. They're like a work of art. Yeah, they are. Big Rob has of those, I think now, right? Vintage weights, Rob. Oh yeah. He's doing a great job.

We were just texting today. Um, so he's in Pittsburgh, so it's like, son of a gun. Yeah. Those Pittsburgh toilet texting you. Those York plates made their way. You know, Pittsburgh was a very, it still is that blue collar tough area. So York equipment always made its way into those places. And I bet you that when like the Pittsburgh Steelers were known, like the iron curtain

and even like Tanner, Tanner Cole, his father, John Cole played something years. Um, he was, man, was he crazy strong. And he told me about like, I asked him like, what was the best things you learned from your dad training wise? He's like, actually he's like, I don't want to, you know, burst your bubble, but it wasn't so much training. It was about like being a man of your word. You know, if you're going to say, you're going to be there, you show up early because being early is on time, uh, you know, if you're going to say you're going to be there, you show up early because being early is on time. You know, loving your family. He said, like, those to me are the biggest lessons I learned from my dad.

Not so much the strength training. And then when he said that, it's like, oh, now it all makes sense. His father has a gym, but it's a nonprofit for special needs kids or for like veterans or anybody struggling with mental health. So he was a man of the people. Okay, overrated or underrated? This one's worth all the marbles. It's the most important one. Say the best for last. Overrated or underrated? Point break. Oh my God, underrated. The first one's amazing. I love that movie. Yeah.

Did you see I posted it as part of our, is that why you asked? Was these strategically asked? Yeah. Yeah. That's impressive. And I, and then it was one of our options and we had talked a little about old eighties movie culture. So I thought it might be a good one to slip in here.

What a great movie. Keanu Reeves. Keanu Reeves. I mean, Patrick Swayze with his fight skills. And then what was it? Gary. Oh, you see. Yeah. You know, he's really struggled, but that was like some good acting, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Did they remake that movie? You said the old one was there? I didn't make or something I didn't watch the remake because John I heard John well-born like really be disappointed I was like, I'm not even gonna waste my time, you know today's modern day great movie is

the equalizer, you know like Equalizer part one where he like kicks the shit out of the the Russian guys in their own bar He like stabs the guy's eye with a shot glass. I mean, they have on YouTube the kill scenes. Not that I watch it too much, but it's a good hype. It's good to hype you up before your next rehab session. Well, yeah, and from point break, did you post the scene where Swayze, he's kind of like justifying why, you know, he's

like saying why it is they do it. You know, he's like this for all the people out there that like are stuck in those iron coffins rolling down the freeway. Steel coffins, yeah. Yeah, steel coffins. And have you ever driven on the LA freeway? No. No.

Six lanes, traffic, no matter, I mean, I was there in the late 90s or 2000 and I never saw that stop traffic at 10, 15 AM, 10, 15 PM, 2 PM, 4 PM, 2 AM. It was never ending traffic with six lanes. And it, I loved California, but all I said to myself is like, how could you live here? You can't commute anywhere. You need like a helicopter to go where you want to go. And I think of course now it's even worse because the human population and people with more cars, but that to me fired me up because when I look at, you know, why run the underground strength gym and you know, I just posted Henry Ron's, I don't

strength gym and you know I just posted Henry Rollins. I don't look at training so much like these guys who are like you know tracking velocity and things like that. I look at the deeper you know what does training do for somebody's life and I look at training as a blend of science and art right. So I'll take a little bit from Dr. Ken, then I'll take a little bit from, you know, name somebody who's doing like sprint training. Then I take something from, you know, the golden era, the silver era, the physical culture era. To me, I'm not the guy that says,

this is the only way to train. I really think that that's kind of like a, not a cop out. It's almost like the problem is today, if you want attention, you have to be black or white. You can't have any gray area. Truth is, if I want to create a great training program, there's quite a lot of gray area. A lot of times people are like, hey, would you do this? Well, it depends. What is the time of year? What is the person's experience? So point break is absolutely awesome. Jersey Shore horrific, you know, iron island plates. Um, you can't offer me any amount

of money. I will not sell them because I think it would disappoint Dr. Ken. I think, you know, when guys like us die, we will go to the Iron Heavens. And I believe Iron Heavens is like Zuber's gym and we're like drinking old protein shakes and we could just hear plates rumbling, you know, to me. I always like to say though, the plates, you know, cause we've got some old Yorks and stuff too.

And none of us really own any of these plates. We're just kind of holding them until the next person gets to have a turn. Just her turn. Yeah, it's just our turn. Here's the problem is like a lot of the guys today, you know, I know you mentioned this before, is like, they're just collectors.

Look, if you really lift with them and you don't look jacked, you don't lift with them. You're just kind of pumping a little bit and you're a little bit going through the motions. Dude, I'll deadlift all the York and billard and iron island together. If you don't look like you lift, then you're just you just created a bedroom because your kid went to college and now there's weights that sit. Your hobby isn't lifting weights. Your hobby is just, just collecting them at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, uh, and I know people say, Hey, that's what I like to do. No,

man, we need to lift on that shit. We don't need it sitting in a room with you staring at it. Okay. You might know the history. You might know all the ins and outs of the billard plate and this York plate and that plate. That's not it. We need people lifting on that shit. It means there's something powerful about it. And I think gyms today, listen, like I own a gym and we got to keep upgrading stuff. You know, I love having Ivanko plates, but what what does universities want? They want bumper plates. Listen, if a 45 pound plate falls on my foot, it doesn't matter if it's York or iron island or a beautiful

bumper plate, my foot is going to get probably amputated. It's not going to be destroyed. So it doesn't make it safer. What's interesting too, have you heard the story that like the, um, the first York barbell club was on the second floor of the York oil burner building. So they didn't have bumper plates and you can't drop the weights when you're on the second floor. So what do the guys have to do? Eccentrics. And that's why a lot of them had such muscle mass.

And so Tommy Kona was a bodybuilder and on USA, you know, weightlifter. So was John Grimick. They were both weightlifters and bodybuilders. We don't see that today. You know, of course, because you need to focus and the competition has rise, but I love that back then you could have done it all. And it was viewed as, Hey man, this is good. It's cool. And there's, they were strong, you know, Phil Gripaldi. You ever see how that guy was built? No. Geez. Google image, that guy, he was a frigging tank. He was from North Jersey. And, you know, I wish like he got caught up in drugs and then had to go to prison, but he was like one of the best weightlifters in the world.

And I said, man, if only America kind of, how do you say, like held weightlifting in high esteem, like these other countries, they would have said, hey, we need Phil Gripaldi to coach and we need to build weightlifting training halls. Instead, guy gets hurt, then they go on pain meds, and then they disappear. And so, you know, well, like in West side versus the world where they said the Russians

worship strength, you know, in America, what do our strongest best athletes do? They play football, you know, they're in the NFL, they're not lifting weights. And so there's always a lot of like history and it's great that some of these guys know the history. But I think it's important that weights get lifted. Like I just collected a bunch of old plates and I had Dean from Black Widow. It's not the first time he's done it. Yep. I have him make me a thick grip dumbbell, which is very much inspired by Dr. Ken. He did a lot of thick grip strength training. And then he has the weight loading is a standard.

And then my neighbor, I'm very lucky. My gym, like I am three feet away, four feet away from a machine shop, old school guys, mid sixties, they fix anything. I bring them the weights and they weld them on. They look beautiful. So we have a lot of like thick grip dumbbells with old York and a burr plates and billard plates and Dan Lurie plates and they just fucking look awesome. But they, you know, if you're trying to like look fancy, it scares people. So I try to, I try to keep that edge. Like I don't want us getting too pretty. You know, I had that conversation with my coach today. I was like, listen, every two, if somebody's not showing up for two weeks, we check in. But if I got to chase you to get here, then you

don't want it, man. And you're, you're actually dumb because you're, you know, playing football, you're wrestling where people are known to break their neck and I'm chasing you. I'm not gonna do that because then we're gonna have the wrong people in the gym. So yeah, it's kind of like the things I think about with that older style of training. And I'll tell you this too, guys,

why do you think we see so many injuries in sports? I really think we're not training. You know, we have all this technology, but like people don't even, they're like, don't deadlift the guys. Why wouldn't you deadlift them? They're frigging getting tackled by somebody running 20 miles an hour. You need to deadlift. We don't even, you know, you look at like videos of training

squat bench clean jump sprint What about some carries? What about some odd objects if I'm training lineman? Last year, I went up to Rhode Island and a new Strength coach came to Providence College the old strength coach bought every grip tool from iron mind. And he had those, you know, the D ball, the Sanfield balls, he had them up to 250. I was like, dude, you're talking my style. So they had to get rid of all of them and nobody was going to buy them.

So somebody called me and said, come up and get them. So I went up and they had 250 225 200 175 150 and then 150 in five pound increments down to well like 90 or 95 and dude the hardest thing was We couldn't just back up the truck right to the door It was like there was a ramp then there were stairs and I remember like driving back. I was like, oh my God, I think I broke my back and all sticking to myself. It's like, I gotta get fucking stronger.

And it was like a reminder to me that if I was a football player, I would want to do the dead list. I mean, we do that with our guys, at least those who, you know, uh, train at the underground at the high school, I don't train my football team, but I think football players should be flipping tires, running hills, jumping rope. They should take a little bit of Herschel Walker. They should take some Dr. Ken. They should take some old school bodybuilding, like what Dave Draper would do. They should take some West side barbell, GPP training. You need all of that.

And I think we've gotten like, you go to a university, there's so much technology. It's so fancy. It's just, you know, they're working. You know, one of my favorite college guys to watch, you look at like Rusty Witt. He's doing like power pressing. They're frigging like snatching heavy dumbbells. I'm like, man, we don't see that shit anymore. You know, we don't see that shit anymore. You know, we don't see that stuff anymore. I think you need to, we got to get back to that. Otherwise, I think only the genetic freaks will survive sports, you know, but the kids who really

need to be developed, they got to do something else besides squat bench, clean jump sprint. There has to be something else too fancy I'm gonna get a lot of haters from this podcast Good news though. Well, actually what we're talking about the last one We were just adding up the totals and it turns out you passed overrated underrated. So congratulations. I passed thank God Congratulations, I was worried. Well, you kind of gave me easy ones. You should have given me ones that really put me on the fence. Yeah. Sometimes we, uh, we like to get really political and religious on them. Just kidding. We never do that. It would have been such perfect time. I posted something about, uh, like just a joke, you know, Donald Trump wins.

So I posted like effective immediately, like president Donald Trump is banning you know all squats above parallel even if you said in all caps, I know I was below parallel and then what was the other way? It's two other things. And then of course there had I knew there would be somebody who would complain and she says only a man would think that this is funny. I was like, yeah, we do think this shit is funny. So you've got, let's see, you mentioned it, underground strength conferences coming up later this month. If people want to find out about that or looking to follow you and everything, just let everyone know the best places to find you at too.

Yeah, as they say, Google that shit. Yeah. I had to say that to somebody. Undergroundstrengthcon.com. That would be really if you're a gym owner or if you're a strength coach aspiring to get into business, even if it's just part-time. So a lot of college strength coaches don't get paid a lot.

So it's very important for them to learn how to write their own paycheck. Or if you are like a chief marketing officer, chief financial, financial officer of a gym. So everybody that's speaking is really unique in that it's all my friends and they've all started from kind of the bottom. And so like one of the guys, Devin, he's got about 20 gyms right now and he's gonna open up a hundred gyms.

And I remember he started, he went through my certification and I remember he's like, man, I just gotta find a way to make more money. I've got this, you know, my daughter was just born and it was like his back was against the wall. It was just amazing to see it. There's gonna be Anthony Schlegel who really like brings such a, such a mix, right?

He's been a strength coach at the Ohio State, strength coach in the NFL, played in the NFL, created a product that's used in weight rooms. It's called the difference. It's like a punching. It's for alignment to work on hand speed. It gets attached to squat racks. And now he's the VP of a massive gym, which we're gonna be talking about,

like what is the future of gyms? Like what is the future of kind of guys like us creating content? I mean, a 13 year old might be able to create better content if he learns AI, you know, before us. So he's in a gym that is, it's got everything. You want strength and conditioning, you want fitness, you want to get body fat tested, you want physical therapy, you want to go see a doctor, it's all under one roof.

And so my honest concern is what is the future of gyms with everybody with such ADD needing to like scroll that's like they're scrolling through to the next gym. So we're going to hear him talking about kind of the mindset behind being an entrepreneur, lessons learned in life and business with this massive gym he's part of. We've got just amazing speakers. It's kind of an excuse to bring together great people to hang out. Cause, uh, Tommy, I don't know if you're, you're both dads or you guys are both fathers. So when you become a parent, you really start like looking at your time differently.

You're like, I don't know if I could go and do this because then I'm away from my wife and my kid or my kids. to go and do this because then I'm away from my wife and my kid or my kids. And you start to like a little remove yourself from this social life that you have. And I had a conversation with a very good friend today. He's like, man, I have bad anxiety. And I said, dude, here's what's happened is once you got your black belt in jujitsu, and then you sold your business, you kind of left all that.

And now you don't have these kind of group of dudes that you hang out with and you don't have this environment that's like invigorating to be around. And that's what happens to men. And John Wellborn has said this on his podcast. He said like there's an increasing rate of depression and suicide amongst men in their 40s, because men stop their social circle. Women, they're like, I'm going to go out. I'm going to having lunch with my friend. I'm meeting my old friend. Us, we're like, no, I'm just going to lift in the garage and listen to Creed. I'm fine. And yeah. And so you, you start thinking like

that's okay when it's not okay It's very actually very important and it's actually healthy to have a healthy social life and so what's been interesting is I did this event 12 years ago about twelve and a half years ago and It's really hard getting people even local people to come on a Friday and Saturday because we just Fabricate things in our head as to why we can't come. And I say to them, guys, I would never tell you to leave your family, but I leave my family only a little bit. You know, I go to summer strong every year because I come back refreshed.

I come back a better husband, a better father, a better coach, a better businessman, you know, with friends and so you don't wanna miss out on those things. Like when you guys go out and you filmed at Jujutsu Mufu and Super D, isn't that so invigorating? Oh yeah, yeah, it's a blast for sure. You have to get out of your element some of the time, as does your wife and even your kids.

You know, your kids have to kids today experienced more depression because they're on the phone in their room. And I think it's like happened a week or two ago, like a kid committed suicide because he had like a relationship with an AI chatbot and so now they're like Jesus Christ like we got to you know kids have to get off their phone yes we know that by the way when does the super d videos get released i can't wait to see it first one will be uh probably oh wow it'll be there tomorrow or friday but probably friday and then the weekend he's one of the smartest dudes out there. Yeah, only our only problem with him is we didn't have more time because we could have spent a lot more I heard yeah, you were

in like you had to go I first met him at a clinic that was called the North Carolina State strength coach or strength conditioning clinic NSCA. And coach Ethan Reed used to host it at Wake Forest. And so super D had just retired from powerlifting. So he was huge and he did a kettlebell seminar. And it's just interesting of like things he was doing so long ago. And like, you know, you mentioned rehab, when I need to like fix a knee or shoulder, I go on his YouTube or Kelly Sturrets YouTube and I just dig back eight, 10, 15 years. Donnie's got so much stuff in there for any problem you could have had.

He has a video on it. Exactly. And so that would be great for you with rehabbing. And I think, you know, I think also like giving that's a, a missed, I don't know what it is, like a lost art form, like God forbid somebody gives credit to who they learned something from. It's okay to say I didn't create this, you know, thing, this exercise. I didn't create this, uh, band exercise.

I learned it from so-and-so. I think it's important to honor the people who came before us. They're like, hey, I'm tweaking up this protocol, but I really learned it from John Grimick or Dave Draper or I found it in an old strength and health magazine. So it's strength conditioning, sometimes a little bit. It should have asked me the question underrated or overrated strength and conditioning. I would have said, I would have said overrated.

Oh, we overrate everything because we try to like inflate and bullshit stuff. Just, just keep it real, man. Just, you know, just watch, just watch, listen to Henry Rollins talk. Although I think Henry Rollins got a little like weird with stuff, but I like when he talks about like the purity of things, you know, read old Dr. Ken stuff, listen to like some old super D videos. Those are always fun. So super D videos, old world's strongest man. Highlight reels. Oh, I forgot this, you know, with you guys doing that,

how old are your kids? By the way, can I ask? Well, so I don't matter two and four. Beautiful. Um, 14, uh, 13, six, three and one. Oh wow. Four. Nice. Tanner is almost like falling asleep during the podcast. He's exhausted. That's how many kids I have. Yeah. So when you got the young kids, I remember like my son is now, you know, he's bigger than me 16. But I remember we take this vacation every year in Lake George and got these like bunk beds. And I remember putting my son to sleep and we're on the iPad and I'm showing him the old, it wasn't world's strongest man. It was

what was held. I think it was called show of strength, which was in England. Do you remember that? No, I actually don't know. So I remember he's like five years old. I'm like, look, Ethan, look at this. And I'm showing him these videos or when he was not even a year old, my wife was working as a nurse. So she would sometimes work that second, that night shift. So Ethan would be up with me and I'd be holding him and we'd be watching, you know, like West Side Barbell special strengths. And so I was like, somebody brought that up. They're like,

oh, Ethan loves, Ethan loves working out. It's so good. I was like, yeah, nobody knew it. I was just brainwashing my kid when he was young. Like he was nine months old watching West side barbell and at age five, he's watching world's strongest man videos thinking this is, this is normal daily activity. But my three year old was eating a sliced hot dogs with a toothpick the other day. And I was in the, I made them for her. I was in the kitchen and she took her toothpick and put a hot dog wheel on each end and held it up to me and goes,

look dad, it's like the gym like you. Cause it looked like it was like a barbell with plates on it. And I'm like, I was like, huh, yup. You do like, you have no idea what a, what the word barbell even means, but you're like, look, I'm going to make a little barbell out of hot dog and toothpicks. Well, they see you guys training. And so you will never have to tell them, Hey, exercise is good for you.

Or you're supposed to do this. Right. They, they will just, you model it. They copy. And that I think is what will change the world is having a bunch of dads and moms who love strength training, who do that at home, because then the kids copy it. And so my kids grew up in this gym, because when we opened the gym, they were, that was 12 years ago.

So my son was three, my daughter was five. My wife made the office, their little hangout room. So it was like a little art room. There was art and games and a TV, but they would only be in there a little bit. Then they'd come out and sit on a sled or climb a rope or, you know, Ethan would, you know, uh, I, he'd come with me to the gym and I would deadlift and he's like, I'm going to trap our deadlift. I was like, all right, we'll put 10 pounds on. Don't tell mommy. She'll think like you're going to be growth stunted. So I always told them, I was like, Nick, do you?

I was like, Ethan, when I say don't tell mommy, do you know what that means? It means this never happened. Don't you never deadlifted. So I've taken him with me when he was young to buy, use gym equipment from gyms that were down and I still remember telling him, Ethan, this is a bro trip. You don't tell mommy. And I took him to a gym that was a old high intensity style gym. And I bought a original safety squat bar for 170 bucks. It's like, dude, this thing is nasty. And it was beautiful. But I know you guys got to go. I like hijacked the whole thing. A lot of stories I could go on forever. Thank you for coming on though. Thank you guys. We appreciate it. I think people will

be excited to hear this. So thanks again. It was, I'm glad we got to, we got to keep you up late. So we appreciate you coming on. It's 1140 I was very tired because of the gluten bomb and then we started talking and then I was like, oh yeah Thank you guys. I appreciate you guys. Yeah. Thanks man. All right guys. Take care We could just keep going We could just kept going. Yeah, we're pulling all nighter over here. I did like all of a sudden we're like we're sucked into another story and he goes, Oh, I got to let you go. I'm like, Oh, I was actually just waiting for what you're going to say next.

But do you have an ad? Are you one in an ad deficit right now? I am in an ad deficit right now? I am in an deficit over here This episode is also brought to you by barefoot shoes most shoes harm your mobility by over restricting your foot's natural movement Barefoot shoes are designed with minimal restrictions so your feet can move the way they're supposed to move with more strength and confidence in every step Barefoot shoes was founded by Chris Duffin who attributes proper foot biomechanics as foundational to his success in squatting and deadlifting Over 1,000 pounds for reps. He helped create the company to write a minimalist shoe That can be worn for anything from deadlifts to walking your dog go to

www.barefoot.store and use code Massenomics to save 10% on your next order. That's barefoot.store. Code Mastodomics saves you 10%. Thank you, Barefoot Shoes. I wanted to give, since we haven't covered this since the very beginning when it started, a little mid-season Mastodomics Fantasy Football League update. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just looking here.

It's a 12-team league, as you remember. Maybe you don't remember. Oh, you can't forget that. Obviously, it's 12-team league. I would never forget a detail like that. And there's three divisions of four, as the basement gym guys are the cellar dwellers, the garage junkies, and then the private club members only,

the commercial gym guys. So there's four divisions. One, Big Matt was forced to relinquish his team due to inactivity and Big Scott Dodds came in about three weeks into the season to take over his team. So Dodzilla got in on it. But drum roll please. Would you like to know who is leading the league?

Are you leading? With a record, I'm just miles ahead of everyone at this point at eight and one. Oh. I started six and oh, and then I think Big Kevin was finally the one that took me down. And then I've won a couple since then, so I'm eight and one. Wow.

Next best record being, drum roll please, five and four with almost everyone else in the house. There's a one, two, three, four, five, seven teams at five and four. Oh, it's, it's telling me I have a 99% chance of making the playoffs at this point. So just cruise on into those playoffs. So this are you, are you, are you active for the giant collapse? How active are you in managing your, I am active are paid attention actually I'm on the waiver wire and a bunch of the guy but

That is not the like I'm not winning because I'm the only one that's active like most of the people are very Everyone is everyone is being present there. Oh, yeah, there's bidding wars for free for the free agent pickups every week actually Like you anymore. I'm surprised if I actually get who I'm trying to get. Like are you having close games with people or are you just? Yes, at the beginning I was not. At six and oh, six weeks in,

I was the league's leading scorer, but also the league's least points scored against. So everyone was doing like their absolute worst against me. So I was, you know, I was, but then, then, uh, Jake, the snake made a comment. He pulled up a statistic and like every team that has played Tanner has had either their worst or second worst week of the entire year when they play him. But since then, now in the last three games where I've gone two and one, I'm getting like everyone's best now so somehow the tides turned on that and my points against our creeping up a little bit they were in such a deficit before it'll take a

while to get that figure back up there but so that's the fantasy football update people been dying for that one that's everyone loves to hear about other people's football that they're not in. There's nothing better than if someone starts telling me about their fantasy football. As good as it gets. I don't even like real football. I just like to hear about fantasy football.

Well, not even, it's the best one. It's not even one that you're. Yeah, that's what I also, yes. I don't don't care about at all. I prefer to like not have any connection to the league or knowing the people to just even make it more more abstract. Now those are the best conversation. That's the football I care about. Fake pretend football that you don't even have anything to do with. Yeah with people that I don't know. That's my kind of football.

Ah, yes. One other thing I was gonna mention, I said Milo the book and I kept being like, what am I talking about? Because he's said something I was thinking, we have rebuilding Milo by University, right? Yeah. And that's then I found out later, that's not what he's talking about. I'm like, wow, I can't believe there's an Iron Mines magazine named Milo. There's a book named Milo.

Right. Because then I'm like, am I? The squat university guy has a Milo book. I'm like, wow, that's quite the. Because I'm like, I must be wrong about this. And I'm like, what? I'm like, Milo lifting book and rebuilding Milo, then it's the, you know.

I'm like, ah, yeah, there it is. Which I though, although I have not really read. Important distinction that you're setting that you're setting that straight right now because we'd have just thousands of people talking about you're wrong. Commenting about what book called Milo. Yeah.

Also speaking of rare and obscure book or just books that maybe people don't know about. Remember when Jujie Mufu showed us, he had the book. Yeah. Who was that again now? What was it? Was it Larry Pacifico? Yeah. Yeah, who's who was that again now? What was it? It was a Larry Pacifico. Yeah

Oh, that's right. Remember we were looking at the path through the passages It was yes, like Larry Pacifico's entire like diary slash training log for like I don't know 10 or 20 years Yes, some and juju and it had everything in it Yeah, some things were just like it was like December 24th and it just says like Christmas Eve and then like December 25th will say Christmas open presents and then the next day it'll be like December 26, five by five squats 700 pounds like it's just it's just such a random three CCS of yes and also what his dulcet just aware for his

vitamins. Also speaking of like rare, cool old books, how to get strong and how to say, stay. So did he have a copy of this? Am I wrong? I'm not, I might just be making that up. I probably would've taken a picture of that. So much stuff happened that day. I can't remember anymore. I actually completely forgot about what you said.

I've never thought about it again until you just brought it up on that Larry Pacifico thing. Yeah. Yeah. That was cool, though. Yeah. What? Would you mind hearing a little bit about the strength? Oh, please do. Yeah, the strength Co has made in America. Made in the USA. Olympic iron plates. They're black, he coded their smooth, easy to grip to the best looking plates that exist on the market. If you're looking for iron plates or really any plates, E-coated, they're smooth, easy to grip. They're the best looking plates that exist on the market. If you're looking for iron plates or really any plates, if you're a home gym

guy, garage gym, basement gym, you're setting up a massonomics gym, satellite gym, strength co-plates are the go-to plates. Also, still time to get in on the turkey pole. Head over to their site at thestrength.co and then click on apparel It's the very first thing sign up pay 35 bucks you get a t-shirt and then if you're in the area you're in so Cal You're in The strength co neck of the woods what Costa Mesa you're down Maybe in Costa Mesa hop on in but otherwise for most people you can just do it virtually. You just submit your video on Instagram and tag the turkey pole.

And then that money goes to a good cause. It goes to the Semper Fi and the Turkey Fund. Yes, it goes to Turkey. The Turkey Fund. And also, coincidentally, this comes out on Veterans Day. So happy Veterans Day to all of those of you that celebrate. Is that what you say about a holiday like that? To those of you that recognize Veterans Day.

Because some people are like, oh no, we don't celebrate Veterans Day in this household. Not in this household. No. So happy Veterans Day to all of those of you that choose to celebrate. Also, that it's a celebration. It seems like the odd word that clearly a celebration. It's like a celebration. It's like, yeah, the Fourth of July. Christmas and Veterans Day.

Those are my those are my weekends. Do not plan anything those weekends. I am booked up. Does that conclude the Strength Co-ad? Did we? Yeah, yes. Thestrength.co. Okay, just wanted to make sure I wasn't cutting.

It was also turned into a Veterans Day. At least wanted to make sure I wasn't cutting the Veterans Day For the offer all those of you that celebrate that but yeah, we had the people But you know the people in charge of Veterans Day told us to really make sure to call up We can just piggyback off of the strength co-ed No, you haven't mentioned Veterans Day the prior eight years, but I think now is the year for the podcast.

It's due for its time. For all those veteran founded companies out there. Yes, this one's for you. You don't have to be currently veteran owned as long as you were just veteran founded. You know what? If a veteran's ever shopped at your business, that's good enough too. We'll count it. We'll count it. We'll count it.

Speaking of veterans, over the years, there's been a lot of veterans that have served in armed forces around the world. And as part of that, thank you. Can we get around for our international troops? Yeah, let's hear it for our troops. You know what I still.

Let's hear it for all of our enemy troops. You know what I still think about regularly? Actually I'm not lying, I regularly think about this. When Mark Henry, Mikhail Shimlyakov, you know, he goes out in his Russian beret and he's like, he's like, yeah, he served in like the Russian special forces. Let's hear it for the troops. And it's like, yup. That's like, that's not the troops we wanna cheer for here.

Really? Next up, we have a guy from ISIS. Let's hear it for ISIS. How about the ISIS troops? Oh, special forces ISIS chopped off a lot of heads. Let's hear it for ISIS. Someone's like, Mark, no. Like, cool man, don't.

Like, how blatant would it have to be for Mark Henry to understand that it's like, where would the line be? They do come up. Because like, a Russian special forces soldier wasn't to the line, yet, where he recognized that as potential. Like, what if it was, oh, this North Korean strong man. You know, like, what'd he be like?

It'd have to be a Middle Eastern guys when it would come down to it. They'd be like, no, okay, like where do we draw the line of supporting troops when it comes to countries that aren't America here? We just want all troops to make sure they have a really good time out there. Yeah, yeah, that's what it's all about.

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and other words that also start with a W. So if you want to check out Swiss Link's collection, head on over to SwissLink.com. While you're there, make sure to use code MAS, and you can save 15% on your next purchase. SwissLink.com, code MAS. Thank you, Swiss Link. You know the other thing about Mark Henry?

Do you remember a couple years, and we just were sitting there Oh, and he just was just chatting away with us We just don't even know how that started even the conversation was it just we were the only people sitting down and we sat by Him or were we sitting down and he sat down next to us I thought he was sitting down and we were looking at the strongman area and he just so happened to Like we were the only people around. So he's like, oh, maybe I should say something to these guys. Cause I don't think we started the conversation with him.

I don't think so. No, cause like we're like, oh no, we know how to stay in our lane. Right. We were just going to like not bother. But you know, you're probably busy and have a lot of stuff going on. Let us just bug you at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah.

I think there was almost like, uh, like where you almost say, like, make a rhetorical comment somewhat or like where you, yeah. That was funny. Cause we're like, Oh, we just talked to Mark Henry for like almost 10 minutes. We did not initiate any of it, which a few years ago would have just been the most mind blowing thing ever. And now we're like, okay, yeah, we should right. Which a few years ago would have just been the most mind-blowing thing ever. And now we're like, okay, yeah, we should all kind of get on our own. You know, keep going here.

Yeah. Okay. Drop items from last time. Make sure to still check those out. We've got, lifting department shorts have continued to been selling, but sizing is still mostly working out. There's gone of a couple, butifting Department shorts have continued been selling, but sizing is still mostly working out.

There's gone of a couple, but Lifting Department shorts in Odie Green, Royal Blue are the best shorts we've ever had. They're amazing. They're completely underrated. If you don't have a pair of these shorts yet, I seriously buy them. You'd be like, okay, I'm really glad. I'm really glad those guys kept telling me to buy a pair of those shorts. I got them now finally.

And they're like, oh my god, you were right the whole time I was very hesitant to listen to you because I'm a dumb jackass But here I finally listened and these shorts are the best shorts that I've ever had the real deal Yeah, and then the sand hoodie a Couple those left and then the smoke tea. I don't know this is specifically true, but we'll say it's Tommy's favorite t-shirt Now marketed as Tommy's favorite t-shirt the smoke tea Just every single one goes out with a giant sticker of me smiling on it. Who is this? This one's Tommy approved

Tommy where do they find you out can find me at Tomahawk underscore D You can follow me at Tanner underscore bear just make sure to follow Mastinomics at Mastinomics. See ya.