Massenomics Podcast - Ep. 479: Strength Coach or Training App: Which is Better?

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Which is better… hiring a coach or using an app for strength training?? We lay out all the pros and cons and try to come up with the right answer! Don’t miss our new drop this week including the Drink Spotter Chill, Home Gym Nerd Tee, and Powerlifting Meet Tee. Build Fast Formula Use code MASSENOMICS to save 10% on every order! BearFoot Shoes Use code MASSENOMICS to save 10% on every order! Juggernaut AI Use code MASSENOMICS to save 10%! The Strength Co Get some Go-To Plates! Texas Power Bars Get the Barbell that changed the game!

Thanks for what you do with your podcasts and all the rest. You're doing a great job. Hope everybody keeps tuning in. You get a lot of good info, a lot of insights, understandings on how to get strong, how to stay strong, how to use your strength. You do a great job. You make things better than they are in real life, I think. If you don't follow Massenomics, y'all do it. Social media, website, everything. Massenomics! side everything mass an on this. Welcome back everyone. Episode 479 of the mass and I mass and I'm X podcast, the lifting podcast about nothing. My name is Tanner. My name is Tommy. And

Tommy, I believe you know, but do you know why episode 479 is so special? God. Okay, the way you say that makes you think I should actually know. Yeah, 479. Is it your high school football number plus 400? Bingo. Oh. Oh. All right. Good, good. I'm like, I think it's in the 70s, but I've also done the,

I've also said this so many times that I don't even remember anymore. It is my old football number plus 400. The one we've all been One of everyone's favorite numbers, yeah So we pulled out all the stops for episode 479 We're gonna talk about our brand new drop this week. We changed the game with this one, of course Title topic that we're gonna get to in a little bit here is going to be the pros and cons of hiring a lifting coach versus a program slash template slash AI. Those

things are all getting put in one bucket together. The other bucket is lifting coach and we're going to talk pros and cons of each. We're gonna make some bold statements that benefit we're going to expect some bold statements at the end of it. We're going to expect you. To have to know no riding two horses with one ass, you got to pick an ass,

pick a horse and put them together and then leave us a note in the comments section when we get there of what horse and which ass exactly you're putting things on. But first, before all of that, I want to tell you about our fine friends over at the

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Just beating them beat the piss out of them eating away. I Walk in there. There's just people beating the piss out of them Just beating it in the corner The piss right out of it Strength co-plates they'll make you want to beat it Strength co-plates will make you want to beat it. Okay. This episode is also brought to you by Barefoot Shoes. When you go to the Barefoot Shoes website, that's barefoot.store, you'll see you're

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Mastodon mix and you can save 10% on your next order. Thank you barefoot shoes Okay Oof we got a doozy. First of all, Tommy you you drinking anything over there this week? Oh, you know I am. We got the watermelon lime good and gather. Oh, real classic one here. Yeah. Didn't know we had any of these left. Well, breaking news.

I'm drinking mine out of something a little special here. Brand new product. I have one of those somewhere. I got to actually find that in time for tomorrow. Brand new product into the Mastinomics drink safety catalog, never before seen on the Mastinomics podcast. Unless you listen to the pre-show, we actually showed it off in the pre-show along with a bunch of other wacky wild stuff some crazy old

Stories where we got extra greasy you can only check out the pre-show by becoming a supporting member But anyone can buy the brand new drink spotter chill. That's right the drink spotter chill It's a leather ish koozie, and you say well, that's pretty cool a leather koozie. That's custom Logo with the drink spotter chill logo. That's not all it's magnetic. Of course, it's a drink spotter It affixes to any of your metal surfaces with its rare earth magnets your podcast microphone microphone arm your rack anything else metal it your rack, anything else metal? It surprisingly strong magnets on the DrinkSpot or Chill.

It's gonna hold up whatever canned beverage you put inside of it and works great in the gym, great for grilling some meats, great for just sitting around drink a couple brewskis, maybe you're in your garage, maybe you're in a shop, maybe it's just a summer grill out, any of those applications, perfect for the Drink Spotter Chill.

Now our cheapest, most affordable, not cheapest, our most affordable Drink Spotter option out there. Also one of the cheapest items on our website. Right, true. Definitely the most portable Drink Spotter that we've ever had. Not that the other ones would be all that cumbersome. Yeah.

So now people can ask, are you excited to see me or is that a drink spot or chill in your pocket? So these are going for sale tomorrow as of the day we record this so when you hear this they have been on Listed for sale. Hopefully we still have some left. We do we did buy a shitload of these so It's really perfect time for the summer though, too Like this is what you would want for whatever you got going on this summer, I think the drink spot or chill the ultimate summer companion. And inside my drink spot or chill. I've got something a little different. This is an ollie pop. Yeah,

what's what's going on over there? Have you ever had one of these? I've had one and it was a long time ago. And there's something different about it What I can yeah, this is actually like more of a soda. Yeah, this has 40 calories. Okay. Yeah, that was the thing there's some more it has Four grams of sugar in it. Mmm Boy, you might be up all night with that sugar. I know Combines the classic soda, you know and love with pre

biotics. That's what I was thinking of. It's pre biotics, plant fiber, and botanicals to support your microbiome and digestive health. Finally, a refreshing soda that's actually good for you. Wow. Bottoms up and that fits in a brand new drinks, butter chill. So the flavor on this one is strawberry vanilla. Curious to see what that bad boy tastes like. Sounds like it has potential. That is shockingly sweet.

Oh, really? Yeah. That is shockingly sweet. Oh really? Yeah. That is way more powerful than any of our usual sparkling waters. Yeah. I thought I was really going to like it when I saw the flavor strawberry vanilla and I like it less than what I thought I would. Just too much. I would say.

Yeah, I don't know. It tastes like a, I don't know it tastes like a I Don't know like a piece of candy almost Like I didn't really wasn't really wanting a piece of candy right now, you know, but that's what you get. I'll get it's okay though I'll give it a 3.0 3.0 on the strawberry vanilla olypop Stephanie no LaCroix or good and gather but then again water it pop. It's definitely no La Croix or Good and Gather. But then again, Waterloo. That's right. We talked about one of the items from the new drop.

Do we wanna talk about the rest of them now? Or what are we doing? Are we showing those things off? Yeah, maybe we should just get out in front of it. Put them out there. All right. We got the DrinkSpotter chill, which you just saw it's this leather ish koozie with the gold. I don't know if that's

embossed or what you call it, but it's on there printed on there the gold drink spotter chill logo. So that's one of our prime drink spotter drink safety devices in this drop. But then we've also got two shirts. These are two shirt two new shirts. One of them is kind of a revamp of an old shirt and the other is completely new So do you want to see the revamp first? Yeah bust that revamp out? Okay? What do we call this? I keep forgetting what items are in the straw. I think we I think we call this our meat tea. Oh, yeah It's not like it's not the

It's not the lift hard live easy classic No, this is just the comp tee you could say yeah This is the comp tee or the comp meet tee the last one we had had the massonomics M Right here, and then something on the left sleeve something on the right sleeve this time. It's only available in black color and We did print this we did not print this on our comfort colors blank that we've been using on a lot of things we used one of our old blanks you know that's the more tapered fit because a lot of people wear this under a singlet so we feel that this works better for that application a little slimmer this

is more yeah a little slimmer fit and black in colors what we went with and this time we have the massonomics that wraps around the neck is that what you would say yep yep wraps just under the collar yep right under the collar it's got the white printed massonomics text and then on the old one the sleeves the logo or the the text was like punched out and on one side was left hardly easy Or one side was left hard. The other side was lefty easy. Yep this time the right sleeve it's kind of hard to show there but is lift hard live easy on the right sleeve and the left sleeve is the

Well, it's not cooperating with exactly like my It's got the M logo on the other sleeve logo. Yeah Yeah, some first time seeing that cuz I'm waiting for mine to show up tomorrow, but yeah, I like how that looks Some people on the older comp tee they thought the M was too far down the neck and this one is not Yeah, this one is like a half an inch from the collar. So it's right right up there. You're saying let's cover in that really. You have your single.

It's really weird if you're if it's covering this now. The blank. Well, this is a Bella canvas blank for people that really know their blanks. This is a Bella canvas blend tee. More of a tapered fit Okay now the one one we've all been waiting for right yes Now this shirt has been something that we've had in the works for quite a while and

It's been on the right it's been on the to-do list for quite a while now We just had so many drops it kept getting pushed out Yeah, and finally it is here and someone else was trying to steal our idea So then we figured we better get this released before they steal it and Here it is The whole Jim nerd the home gym here t There it is in all its glory. Can you see it on the camera right there? Oh, yeah, are you a home? They cover a two inches still there? Yeah, are you a home gym?

Do you have a home gym? Are you a nerd about it? Are you proud about it? Well, yeah, here we go How would you describe the design for listening? It definitely some varsity vibes, but it has that that old school collegiate seal look to it where it's you kind of have this seal in the middle with sort of the the the leafing and some other varsity collegiate themes to it so real real classic item yeah it's on a comfort colors blank and the color is Navy with white print mm-hmm and it's not like a Heather Navy I'd say it's a kind of like

a true Navy yeah and in Latin on it what does say? Yeah, what do we have in Latin again? Gymnasi domus fanaticus, above the guy like almost in the toga curling a dumbbell in the center of the logo. That was, I believe, the loose translation in Latin was home gym fanatic, right? Yeah, yeah. It's our interpretation of home gym nerd that we right? Yeah, yeah. It's in our interpretation of home gym nerd that we liked the Latin translation of. We actually workshopped several different Latin translation variations, and that's what we came up there with,

with Gymnasi Domus Fanaticus. Yeah, just adding to that academic collegiate feel of the whole thing. It also has the Roman numerals in it to add to that kind of too. And this shirt is really sweet. I quite positive this is going to be a good seller. Yeah, I think that I could see this one popular with just anyone that has a home gym.

I think this could be a real point of pride for him. Go ahead and listen to Huck Finn, whatever he puts out on a podcast following our release of this, and he'll be saying how we stole this idea from him. And the real story, he'll tell his story, which for those of you that know Huck Finn, he's always got a story. But the real story is it was inspired by him in part with this phrase home gym nerd that we kept hearing more and he was made almost he was using it to make fun of us and the massonomics followers, but the crazy part is is since what actually was the breaking point for it was

Heard him say it several times heard coop say it multiple times in garage gym review videos. Yeah, I was explaining it This was like one of the aha moments for me. I was explaining home gym ownership to some of my friends that don't live in the area. They were visiting, was it like over Christmas time, I think. Maybe it was even January for New Year's or something like that. And I was explaining all of it.

And the one guy who was my buddy, his girlfriend goes, oh, so it's like a nerd kind of. I'm like, well, actually, yeah, at a certain point, yeah, you do nerd out. So it's like a home gym nerd. I'm like, actually, I have heard that phrase before, yes. Yes. And it does describe it.

And that's an endearing term in our eyes. You know, it's like a home gym nerd is a good term. People like Huck Finn might use it to try to make fun of us. Take that, flip it, turn around and reverse it because it's actually a positive to be home gym nerd. Uh, and then after we already already have a shirt, he said, you know what? I'm going to make that into a shirt.

And we said, gave him a ring jingle on the jungle and said, Finn, we already have that shirt. I do. gave him a wrink jingle on the jangle and said, Finn, we already have that shirt. I mean, I won't forget, they had a podcast where they were talking about it. And they talk about a lot of ideas out loud. So I didn't know if maybe they'd forget about it. But anyways, the podcast got done and they were saying like, yeah, yeah, we got it. I think J. Gabrowski goes,

you got to put that on a shirt, Finn, you got to do that. And I got done listening to the episode and I called Tanner and I'm like, hey, you know that shirt? I don't know if you listen to Let's Get Stupid yet, but you know that shirt that we're like ordering? They just said that. We better do that faster. Yeah, they just said they're gonna make that.

Yeah. No. So I'm excited about that one. Pretty sweet shirt. And it's out in time. Anyone that's going to Home Gym Con, you would absolutely be, I'll say it, I'll be blunt about it,

you would be a horse's asshole to not have this and wear it to Home Gym Con. Yes. If you're going, if you're listening to this and going to Home Gym Con at the end of this month, what kind of rotten horse's asshole would you have to be not to have this? Well, we'll give you a pass if you're just wearing

a Masonomic shirt instead. We'll give you a pass on that one. That's your second option. That's all right. You're not that much of a horse's asshole then in that case if you haven't, but is there, is there any bonus item with that shirt or not? I couldn't remember if we had.

My gosh. But wait, there's more. Okay, okay. I couldn't remember what we had discussed here. Yeah. I'm glad you remembered. Okay, so not one I didn't even say this. Well, this won't apply to anyone listening because it'd be too late. But the first 50 orders are actually getting the limited edition Silly Goose Barbell Club round premium sticker. So the first 50 orders of this drop are getting that. That'll be, you'll be too late

by the time you're listening to this. So that, don't worry about that. But everyone that orders a home gym tee gets a free special item with that home gym nerd tee. It is the home, this is gonna be hard to come across on camera depending on the refraction but home gym nerd Sticker glitter sticker. Is that what you call those? Yeah, I think that one's the glitter sticker. Yeah, very nerd Sparkly glitter stickers you everyone that orders a home gym nerd tea

You'll get one of those and it is a premium sticker on those as well so everyone That orders the home gym nerd shirt also gets the home gym nerd sticker Just can better Everyone that I see at home gym con that's either a Everyone that I see at Home Gym Con, that's either a supporting member or wearing a Mastinomics piece of apparel, you'll also get a Home Gym Nerd sticker.

You know I'll keep them things on me. At Home Gym Con, if you come up and you say, I'm a supporting member, or you show me the piece of Mastinomics merch that you're wearing, Home Gym Nerd sticker right in your hand. Tanner's gonna be walking around with just a brick a brick of stickers not for long I'm glad you mentioned the sticker. I kind of it is Brandon the discord has an important question Will there be a charge if anyone sticks them in the bathroom at home gym? Con?

We're gonna have to ask Jake about that We're going to have to ask Jake and see if see if see see what our what our policy is. My God, if we go to another convention and they make us not use all our stickers again, I'm just I'm going to get my congress member on the phone and be like I quit take this to the top We're and for those what checking along at home We are still giving out Arnold bathroom stickers free with every order, but not for long these Pretty small there's a little more than this but not that much more than that. Okay And I guess I we've never talked about on the podcast, right? But there is a sticker a massonomic sticker machine that's got a bunch of these and several other stickers in it as well Yes, have we talked for that on the podcast? I can't remember

I don't know I know I posted it on Instagram, of course, and I don't know if we Anthony says we have not there is a massonomics coin operated sticker vending machine now I Got us. My wife found a sticker vending machine on now I Got us my wife found a sticker vending machine on Facebook mark or maybe it was just thrifting it was thrifting and she's like this is $25 should I get it and Before I could even I responded later because I was doing some something at work, and I'm like yeah You might as well even if it doesn't work

It's $25 and she goes good because I already got it and I'm on the way home with it And I did have to teach myself to become a vending machine repairman because it actually work. Okay, it It just needed I just needed to Take some things apart and do some hook some springs up that had become like on hooked a little maintenance I guess is what I would call it It did take a little I had to do a little research on what I was doing and once once I figured it out it was quite simple okay yes but yeah it's fully operational it's in my garage for the time being it's gonna go to the gym eventually and I think it'll just come along to the lift hardly easy classic that'll be that'll be right

there that you can get yourself some stick and all the money pumping into that thing. You better hope no one picks up the machine and steals it after the lift or the VZ Classic. It's fairly heavy. It probably will be really heavy with all those quarters sitting in there with all the quarters in it. I do think between because, you know, you pay 50 cents and you get a sticker and there's also this cardboard.

Have you ever used a sticker machine like a pizza before? Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's, you cardboard. Have you ever used a sticker machine like at Pizza Hut before? Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's that cardboard sleeve that the sticker comes in. Between the sticker and the cardboard sleeve, it may almost cost more than 50 cents per transaction. Okay, I was gonna ask you though, how did you get those cardboard sleeves?

Ordered them off Amazon. Oh, like that actually was a thing you could get? Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. I didn't know if you had to go through some secret vending machine No Amazon struck again, and there weren't that expensive But by the time you had the sticker in that and you can I did learn teach myself how you can change I could charge anywhere from 25 cents to a dollar 25 per transaction

All right And you could actually do it there's four slots and you could do them all differently if you wanted to I have just left them all out 50 cents Premium slot if you want right right exactly okay? Well we got options Yeah, so stay tuned for those of you coming to western northeast, South Dakota. You'll probably get a chance to use the sticker machine And it just keeps getting better next year. We're gonna have one of those machines you put a penny into it it flattens it out and puts a Like a mass nominus one of our faces on it the thing about the secret machine the front of it It's just like real sticker machines at Pizza Hut or wherever else it

advertises a whole bunch of really cool stickers and Everyone you get is actually an Arnold sticker And everyone you get is actually an Arnold Sticker Yeah, it's like ah I always get the Arnold bathroom sticker again, it's like $20 on bathroom stickers And I already have 20 of them at home All right, that's our drop and we're sticking to it

I Asked what you're drinking over there what I also want to know what are you smoking over there? Because this the smoke has been in the air some of that great white north. Yeah, have you uh Noticed any smoke, you know, it was pretty bad on What day was that like two days ago? Yeah, like Sunday Sunday Monday somewhere in there It was pretty bad. And then it seemed like it cleared out in a hurry. So I haven't noticed it as much lately. But yeah, for the one day, you could really notice it.

Yeah, ours was pretty much gone today. I couldn't notice it anymore. But like two days ago, it was, I could have sworn that if you would have told me there's a building on five, I mean, the biggest building in town. Yeah, like there was one day there were I Mean I talked to parents that were like yeah, we're leaving our kids It's bothering our kids like we can't have them outside Actually, that was Sunday. I went to a bike alone thing and there was people that said like yeah

It was horrifically bad. Well, my phone was giving if you go to the weather app It was giving you notifications that you know, normally I don't even know what the gauge is but the weather The air quality is like 10 or something around here and it just is always at that and it was in the red It was like 120 or 140 something. I've never seen my phone do that I don't usually pay attention to that number, but yeah, it was very high that that day and Aberdeen's a couple hours north of Sioux Falls Yeah in theory be worse, but I'm like how far south do you have to go before you don't notice it? was very high that that day. And Aberdeen's a couple hours north of Sioux Falls. In theory be worse, but I'm like, how far south do you have to go before you don't notice it like then at that point?

Because if you could notice it there. So then what about in like Nebraska and Iowa, are they experiencing it? Then I'm sure they got a little bit of it. Yeah. I can't imagine that they were off for a couple of days. I mean, if you, if someone said there, oh yeah, there's an enormous grass fire Just on the north side of town, you know that runs 20 miles long a bit. Of course there is look at it outside

Yeah, that is surprising because here it was more of just a fog in the air You could maybe smell a little something but it just felt Like why is there a haze in the air if you didn't if you didn't know any better? Yeah, I'd even say you'd come in from outside and be like, yep, my clothes almost smell like I was at a bonfire. Like I was not sitting super close to the bonfire. Just about burning garbage again. Yeah.

And I, until like a couple of years ago, like, do you ever remember that happening? I never remember that being a thing when I was growing up ever. The first one that really annoyed me was, uh, I remember when I had my boat, there was one summer, it was really bad where it just seemed like it was overcast for. Right. Like a couple of weeks. And maybe it was only a week, maybe it was two weeks, but I just remember being like out on the boat and be like, Oh, you can't get any sun because there's

just this constant overcast from the Canadian smoke fire all the time. So was there never fires in Canada until the last like a handful of years? I think based off of the little bit that I read I think that they're just getting worse every year now is what it's okay You know with everything going on and all they can keep that up there I'm gonna we're gonna start charging tariffs on that smoke if they keep sending it down there don't want the smoke yeah tariffs am I right Let's see We're gonna get into

Supporting our supporting members and a certified training facility of the week is there anything else we want to cover before that? Boy of the week is there anything else we want to cover before that Boy Okay, let's just because this will this will sort of lead into the next segment Have you seen have you seen what Rogues been up to Tanner? I? Did I actually this I pop that in and I'm like did I put that in because I meant to put that in and I'm Like oh, no Tommy put that on say tracking also home gym community has been real quiet about this one No one's really wanting to speak out on this clever clever rogue rep a lot of comments on that Rogue equipped gyms not so many comments not so many people step it up to the plate on this one. Yeah

Looks really similar to something what what do so it's the rogue a quick gyms and the comparison would be to our certified training Facility that has become quite a popular program over the last several months We now almost have 300 certified training facilities on our map It's a pretty cool map. We do the certified training facility of the week each week You know everyone gets a flag a certificate and some special stickers that go along with it and now within a few months later Rogue came out with this. Do you think what I asked you would ask you Tommy Do you think that our certified training facility thing could have been on anyone's radar there and been any?

Like do you think it actually could have? Okay now okay Like, do you think it actually could have been? Okay, now, okay, it's hard to say because they're a huge company and huge companies are notoriously slow to get shit done. Yeah. But also we're talking about the digital side. I mean, we literally were able to like crank this out in like no time.

Right. So obviously they have the team and the resources to do it just as fast. I don't know. It could definitely be a coincidence. I'm going to be honest here. We're not the first people in the world to have a gym directory of any kind, as fun as it is.

But there are a lot of- We are the most recent ones to have a popular one, though. I would think so, yes. I mean, it gets thousands and thousands of views a month on our website. It's a popular page. There's a lot of people coming across it. I mean, there's hundreds of gyms in the program, the Mastinomics one. And I will also say this is

that it is eerily similar to ours in a few ways. So do you know any of the details of theirs? Well, I'm trying to find the freaking page for it. And I can't, their website's so annoying, even when you Google it, it doesn't pop up. Here, let me, cause they sent out an email promoting it. Here we go. Yeah, I remember that. Introducing, okay. So you go to it's rogue fitness slash rogue dash equipped dash gyms go to that.

And what's a really funny, so it has, has a map just like ours. Cause of course there's a map. And what's really interesting is they have more... I'm assuming there's more parameters, like you have to probably have a certain amount of rogue stuff, maybe, and you don't pay like ours, you have to pay to be in. But what I like is there's view gym details and it does have the zip code, it does have photos, it has a gym description, but the zip code is just you know,

the same thing to pin it to a certain area but not get too close. So so what is the Kenny? What is the requirement to be a rogue fitness equipped gym? I don't know because there's the add your gym button and then ask for your gym name and your email and I didn't want to give it a bunch of my info so I didn't do that. So I'm not for sure what the actual hook is if they just submit it but I don't know, it's wrong. At the end of the day it's always gonna be less personal

than Masanomics, right? That's true. I mean that's just a fact. If I'm being honest, what I think is probably is highly Possible they have no idea about our thing at all. It's a lot I mean that being said are you talking about bill or you talking about well the hundred people on their marketing team That's that's the thing too. Cuz there's certainly we know a bunch of people that work for rogue that have been like, yeah I'm a fan of your guys of stuff, you know that comes up a lot also

I've got email correspondence with with bill and he's been like, oh,, I'm a fan of your guys' stuff. You know, that comes up a lot. Also, I've got email correspondence with Bill, and he's been like, oh, I love your, you know, I'm a fan of what you guys do, this and that. So we're not not on Bill's radar to begin with, so it's not impossible, but. Yeah, I'll say this, ours is way cooler though. Ours is just got. Ours has a

Like some of these like you click on it You click on it like view gym details and some of them have pictures and that other ones just have like rogue Equipment and it lists like they have rogue Competition collars. They have a concept to bike erg. They have a ski erg. It's like why are these like four products called out? Right. Yeah, I guess the differentiator is theirs is, do you have rogue, maybe their qualifiers, do you have rogue equipment in your gym? Which is whatever.

Ours is more like, are you like a cool person that likes to be fun and maybe you know? Maybe have your gym featured in a video someday, you know, right. It's a good place to start So I like our qualifiers better. Yeah Ours is a very exclusive club, too. We don't we don't that's just anyone into that thing Screw that rogue Equipped gym map screw it in the butt supporting our supporting members is the next segment it's a relatively new segment to the podcast you probably heard it before but is relatively new at least supporting our supporting members is where we give back

to those that give to us you can become a supporting member by going to massonomics.com slash join. It is the number one way you can support us at this point. We've had quite a few new people showing up lately so that would be my first shout out is welcome all the new supporting members. For any of you that don't know some of the stuff you get in on by becoming a supporting member it's the only way you get in in our Massonomics Discord. Gotta be a supporting member to get on our Discord. It's a very active community. It's the only way you can listen along to the podcast live.

It's the only way you can listen to the pre-show. That's the show before the show. It's uncut, unrecorded, unfiltered, and we've been doing it every week now for a few months, the pre-show. It's the only way you can listen to the pre-show is by becoming a supporting member There's a discount code. That's for supporting members only you get access and info on new drops and possibly one of the coolest things a

Couple times a year whenever we plan it out. We send out these crew supporting member mailers It's a physical mailing that goes out to everyone. That's a supporting member at that point in time that has an active supporting membership and every time it's a different new surprise gift. We've done some, what I think are pretty fun ones over the years, but I think this summer we've got possibly our coolest one ever coming. So now is the time if you've been on the fence about becoming a supporting member, get in on it now so you

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just right after the line. Isn't just a joke. It is a real thing. And there's a lot of people that just hit the other side of it. Yeah, so do join up now. And last but not least, you can be on supporting our supporting members like Big Frog competed in M2 class, Masters 2 at Powerlifting America, Age Division Nationals. And he got first place, best overall lifter. So he will be lifting at Powerlifting America Worlds now. So a Worlds competitor on the biggest stage in powerlifting for Big Frog in M2 class.

Wow, good stuff. Yeah. Big Schmidty totaled 1411 pounds at his meet, which was a 78 pound PR for him. Huge PR. Big Caleb got third place in the men's open lightweight division at Tennessee's strongest and the new big Gabe Certainly not to be confused with the old big Gabe, please don't confuse them The new big gave got second place at Tennessee's strongest novice 105 kg class Big Chris D had a sandwich named after him at a local sandwich shop and big Jake one nutter was this week's guest on unpaid and underrated

Wow, a lot of good stuff Yes now How are you feeling Tommy about a certified training facility of the week? Oh, yeah We'll pull up our certified training facility Map you can find it at massonomics.com Certified way easier URL to type in and find then yes that freaking rogue thing my god next reps gonna have one of these aren't they it's only a matter of time all right

should we just fire out well do you want to pick one or should I pick one yeah you just pick one or give me I'm just gonna pick I. I'm just I'm not even gonna think about what state I'm just gonna click in an area and see if I can find something Okay, I'm going I Just gotta find a picture a good picture Alright spanky's wad barn. Well, we ever done spanky's wad barn sounds very exotic in Cottontown, Tennessee? Tennessee

Spankies and do you know who spent you know who spanky is? Yeah, I thought maybe it wasn't clicking Yeah, now now it's clicking spankies wad barn in Where did I say? What's the town's cotton town, Tennessee, Tennessee? So Spanky, if anyone's ever been to the Arnold or home gym con or probably a lot of, you know, more regionally local to the Tennessee area, been at any big lifting events there. And you've purchased anything from what company, barbell voodoo barbell voodoo

Spanky doesn't own barbell voodoo, but he works closely and he's at like every one of these helping around Or maybe he is an owner actually am I wrong? It's he maybe he is an owner actually he was part owner You're probably right. I guess I was thinking that I yeah, you're probably right. Yeah, I think he's 50-50 Yeah, that's the way I get it. I thought he was half owner Either way he's at everything for sure so if you've ever gone to barbell voodoo ask for spanky spanky is a certified training facility and Spanky's facility here Tommy. What do you see? So this is some type of like shop outbuilding he has here. Well, it's a barn barn. Oh yeah, it's in the name. It's right there.

Yeah, so right away the building is nice. He's got a ton of room, right? Like no shortage of room here. Really high ceiling. Yeah, really high. And it looks pretty new. Like every like it looks like new construction, doesn't it? Yeah, it doesn't look old. So yeah, first of all, lots of room. He's got an overhead door you can drive in and a door

on the side, so that makes things easy. And I like seeing there's a range of equipment here, from some kind of old school commercial looking stuff to your more standard racks. But I guess right away, we got a rack in the back corner. It's a kind of a rig mounted to the wall. Can't tell for sure what brand it is, but he's got that. He's got a Duffalo bar of some kind or, you know, um, in the rack there.

Of course we got the certified training facility flag hanging up. And I don't know. There's, I mean, there's's a lot back there you can't see all of it from the he's got like a rig with Gymnastics rings and stuff back. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep, and I don't know there might be like an adjustable bench in that corner way back there Yeah, this is a very very large certified training facility. Yeah, this might be one of the biggest ones actually so far Upfront where you can see easier. He does have a suck some kind of Hamstring leg curl machine there. Yeah, lying leg curl machine looks like a plate loaded Commercial quality leg curl machine. Yep, and then is that a glute? Ham ray are like a job char machine is some HR in there

And it looks like a leg press behind that might be a leg press hack squat combo Yeah, it might have handles up on the top. Yeah, he's got a weight tree with some different weights some bumper plates on the wall He's got a lot of barbells there. It looks like he's got those Those like nine bar holders and it's got three of them. They look pretty maxed out too. So he's got a lot of those several strongman logs over there also Maybe some farmers carries handles. He's got some dumbbells. I think it maybe that's a circus dumbbell that pink one or something like that He's got some horse stall mats on the right side He's got a propane

Heater in the back. You see that then there's a propane tank towards the foreground Right. Yep foreground And I kind of think he's got a runway here that the strongest man runway is what I would say Yeah You know what? I'm really wondering as I look at this as I continue to look at as we talk it out Tommy do you think you get strong there? I think you could get very strong here. Oh Shit, yeah, you could get strong there

Say the limit in spanky's We got here it's pinkies Wad barn I'd say this guy is the limit Yeah, good. That's a that's a cool, unique certified training facility. So if you're not a certified training facility yet, I would ask you what the hell are you waiting for? Don't become a rogue, whatever, whatever, become a massonomic certified training facility.

We won't judge you by your equipment type. You can have any equipment type. Yeah, you could have spankies, Wad Barn equipment, you could be the bar, South Dakota, Edo's gym in California, beer belly brigade, the meeting room, the list goes on. And you could become a certified training facility of the week. You know, I was just thinking here, I'm not sure because I haven't gone through the steps of the rogue one, but Presumably if the rogue one is not charging you to be a member

You could still make the argument that indirectly though They're charging you quite a bit because if you have to have rogue equipment in your gym to be a member at the rogue one It's uh, that's no that's no cheap. That's no cheap entry fee Yeah, that is true So maybe the the charge is more baked into the cake with them, isn't it? I think so. This week's episode is brought to you

by Build Fast Formula. Check them out at buildfastformula.com. Just this morning, I helped myself to some 80-20 protein powder. I had their vanilla flavor this morning. Vanilla ice cream, it's called. A delicious tasty flavor. Not my favorite of theirs. It's one of my favorites, but not my absolute favorite of theirs. That is reserved for the chocolate lava cake.

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Up for a subscription model on any of their products to save an additional 10% savings on savings at buildfastformula.com. Is it? Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. I don't want to do I need to get these these lucky. Yeah, I was just gonna say almost prematurely. What you could tell them what the now they're gone.

It's too late. It's too late. I have to listen. They're just gonna have to listen to this recorded like all the normal people They need to get to bed anyways, they got to be productive members of society tomorrow, yeah Not us, you know Doing whatever they do Whatever they whatever they all do around the globe. We had some international listeners tonight

They said it was two third three and three a.m. His time listening along live Tonight three o'clock in the morning Did you give them all the acts they are oh Keith is the last one. Okay Get out of here Keith. Okay now come on, get him out of here. Get out of here, Keith. Okay, now finally. All right. All right. Title topic time should do it. Should I hit him with it? Let's do it. Oh, yeah. What's the title topic? Title topic this week is Oh,

man, caught me off guard with this one. I just was so not ready. Title topic is pros and cons of a lifting coach versus a program. Yeah, and we said, lifting coach is obvious what a lifting coach is you're actually paying for a real human being probably typically online more than in person, but in person could apply. But most of the people that are doing this,

I feel like it's on online more so. We're talking more loosely, I would say, about power lifting or strongman. I guess you could apply this to really any type of lifting, but we're- Apply it to anything in life almost. Right, right. But we're really honed in more so on like

powerlifting or strongman strength training in general more generally speaking versus a program we say and a program could be a program you're paying for it could be more of just a template that's either free or being paid for or even ai or an app. Yeah, AI and app, an app. We're big users of juggernaut AI, as most people know. That would fall into what we're just calling a program or an app or a template. We're going to categorize those things together for the sake of today's comparison. So how do we do it? Do we do like all the pick? Because we're going to have essentially have four sections.

We're going to do hiring an actual lifting coach and do pros and cons of that. And then we're going to do paying for a program spreadsheet app and do pros and cons of that. Do we run down? I think no, I think maybe we should just rock. Just talk through the whole scenario of hiring a lifting coach. OK. And then we'll just talk through the whole scenario of the program spreadsheet app. And then if we need to bounce back, we can. But yeah, OK, we'll try to we'll just talk through the whole scenario of the program spreadsheet app. And then if we need to bounce back, we can. But we'll try to look at this as objectively

as we possibly can. Yeah, I guess a disclaimer of that is, unless I'm wrong, Tommy, you've never hired a coach for training, right? I have not, no. Neither have I, and I probably never will. Yeah, at this point, it's hard to say that I would now. My life would have to take a pretty drastic turn.

But I think we did try to look at it not through that lens. I mean, you don't have to be a rocket science to understand the pros and cons of it. Like having not done it, I feel like we're not dealing in rocket science here. That being said, we did the thinking for you, so you don't have to here to really make it easy for you And just as I scan the list our longest list the most bullet points is under pros of hiring a lifting coach. Oh

But we'll find out what so is it just quantity or is it quality? Stay tuned out. Yeah. Okay. Should we get this started right off the bat here? Pros, pros of a lifting coach. I'm gonna say the first one here. I think this might be the biggest one on the entire list. And that is that human feedback slash communication, slash support and encouragement. You know, there's just something about it that you don't get that same feedback loop from a template, a program, a sheet, an app, whatever else is giving you your numbers or telling you

what to do. When you don't have that actual human communication part, for some people that's a game changer, that's a deal breaker not having that. So I 100% get people that want that extra level of touch that only a coach can offer and That's what you get in that communication side yeah, so you get the the feedback the support the encouragement and specifically on the Encouragement it's one of the last things I have there on the support. It's like maybe a mental aspect of training,

especially for those that aren't as good as finding that within themself. Well, yeah, I mean, there's support. There's a lot of levels to that because, you know, whether it's just the mental support for when training gets tough or, you know, when you have some challenges in your training that you weren't anticipating or some people, you know, when you have some challenges in your training that you weren't anticipating, or some people, you know, they really get beat up or they get

hard on themselves towards the end of a prep, when the weights just get really heavy, you start feeling like crap, you know, sometimes having that coach, they're saying, trust the process, this is intentional, this is what's supposed to happen. You know, for some people, like that is the thing to say, Oh, okay, okay, I can trust someone I I know that the plan is going the way it is, rather than just being stuck in your own head the whole time.

Right. And especially maybe if you're someone that trains from home without other people around much because I, you know, I might not have a coach, but I have the luxury of going to Mastinomics gym, or I talked to you multiple times a week, and we talked about training and it's like oh man This really feels this really seems weird What do you guys think you know we kind of get that even without a coach? But a lot of people might not have that network. So if you do have a coach

You do you just bought yourself that network. Yeah, at least that individual that can do that and be there for you doing that job Yeah, and so I mean that's, actually I'm just looking at the rest of the things in the list and a lot of them that we wrote down kind of fall right back into that. Like another one here is accountability. Again, it's that other, it's the fact that there's another human keeping you accountable and keeping you on track.

So whether that's, whether you're the type of person that maybe likes to take some workouts off or maybe you like to Go off the off program whether that's going too heavy or too light on certain days a lot of times when someone knows there's another Person that they can't let down or a person that they're paying money to it does keep the accountability level a little higher, too Yeah paid money to, it does keep the accountability level a little higher too. Yeah. I would agree with that. I think one of the maybe this is a little bit different than some of the other ones we've discussed then is specific form feedback.

Where we'll talk about some of the other options that you can go for coaching that you don't actually get the form feedback And that the value of foreign feedback. I think there's about could be value in it for any lifter Mm-hmm. I think especially someone that's a new lifter There could be you know additional value there if you're a newer if you Haven't honed your craft of what a squat bench and deadlift is supposed to feel and look like, especially to a competition standard. Right. That's where that form feedback could be particularly valuable from a coach there.

Again, if you have training partners, I think that they kind of take on that role also and maybe make the coaching, you know, specific paid coach form feedback less valuable because you can get it elsewhere. But a lot of people don't have that luxury still, I would say. So the form feedback could be pretty valuable. Yeah. Yeah. Even for a more advanced lifter, you could still have times when the form feedback is helpful.

Yeah. Yeah, you definitely could. But yeah, I think this does fall under one of the things of as you become more advanced or more experienced like hopefully Like your form isn't something you're having to read Retweak and relook at like constant like I'm not saying you don't look at your form But like hopefully you're not making huge changes to your technique every year Well, that's up. There's people that do that and if you've been around gym with

There's people that do that and if you've been around gym with People that lift consistently for a long time. You've definitely run into people that they're always starting over It's like they've gotten this continuous loop where they never They never make it like past the halfway mark of a training training Like I mean it called a cycle or like a training path because they always get there like all my forms bad It's getting heavier now my forms that I need to reinvent my form So I'll go down and wait to go down and my program now Yeah, change my pro and go back through because in the way I want it to it's like

I just got a horse cock that weight around and just yes That would be my point like a certain a bit of it matters You need to be you know safe and hopefully do something that's gonna be sustainable But sometimes it's just hard. Yeah, it is a matter of lifting. Yeah, and we've talked to some very accomplished distinguished coaches over the years and they're like, ah ones that have ran seminars and they're like You do these seminars and a lot of people think they're gonna come to the seminar and like you're gonna give them some tip on Their form and just everything's gonna change and they're like That like it never happens like it might happen like once in however I mean just an incredibly rare thing like for the most part

It's like no you just need to train smarter and train harder like that's what's holding you back Right cuz that form thing there again for complete Complete novices I get it, you know I need to give some direction to where the form is, but people that have been lifting for a while and basically understand how to squat, most of the time you're not gonna rock their world with something that's just like, wow, you just put 60 pounds on that squat.

Yeah, you've settled into a position that works good for your body. Like, yeah, you've kind of got that figured out. Again, there will be exceptions to this, but that's not, at least in our experience, maybe we're just surrounded by technical gurus. But in our experience, most people tend to get their form figured out after enough time,

and it might not look ideal to me or you, but it seems to be working pretty well for them. Yep. Yeah, what have we got next on the list here? Okay, these two kind of... Yeah, I think those next two are kind of tied together. Yeah, these next two are kind of the same thing, but another pro of a lifting coach would be that they can be more flexible in making adjustments and tailoring things to you, the individual lifter. So you know if you got just a spreadsheet that spreadsheet is fairly rigid and doesn't provide you a lot of options. Now with

apps, apps do have more options for questionnaires and different paths that your training can take you down but if you are talking about just a spreadsheet and week six says do this and things aren't feeling right or things are feeling really good like maybe week six the initial plan, and things aren't feeling right, or things are feeling really good, like maybe week six, the initial plan, isn't the ideal plan or the optimal plan, and that's something that you can be talking to a coach about if you're having weekly check-ins,

that you can be addressing your training on a weekly basis and be adjusting for either really good training cycles, bad training cycles, working on a particular injury, scheduling, things like that. That, you know, if you do have a good feedback loop with your coach, that is something that a coach would provide to you. You know, this last one, additional education, I don't even really know. even really know. I would say they're just, you know, if you have, you know, a good coach is more than just, hey, here's your spreadsheet go. Right? You know, that's not a good coach. That's not a good coach. That's just a spreadsheet. That's not who we're even talking about here as far as hiring a coach.

So the caveat is hiring a good coach, actually. Well, actually, we'll get to some of that here later. But yeah, that's, that's an assumption with all these pros as you hired a good coach Yeah, yeah, so a good coach isn't just hey Here's your spreadsheet for the week go and when we talk next week It'll be when I give you another spreadsheet like there there should be at least in my opinion more to it than that and You know that that involves the coach checking in with you seeing how things are going. What's going good? What's going bad.

You know, if, if they are having mental issues preparing for a meet, maybe they have some resources, some articles, some videos, or even just communication that they can, you know, talk with you, whether that's on a zoom call or however they're doing it, um, they can provide you some additional resources to help you with whatever you might be going through. Uh, that could be an injury thing that could, like I was saying, be a mental thing that could be a recovery thing. Like if you are a good coach and you've worked around enough people, you've probably seen some, you've probably seen most scenarios that are out there.

And so the, when, uh, the unexperienced lifter or someone's experiencing that new thing for the first time, you could ideally provide some wise guidance in their situation One last thing I guess I would say that it does kind of tie into some of their ones we said but as an additional Pro as I think about it for hiring coaches You actually do have just human eyeballs on you some things are more difficult to be represented in terms of speed or RPE. There are situations where maybe that doesn't tell the full story. Maybe you need the human eyeball that can account for speed, form, RPE, just the look on your face.

And also know how those, you know, if you are doing a bar tracker, some people are way better at grinding out reps than other people. And you know, just one small example of a way a coach could, their eyeballs. So I'll say the human element could be a pro. Yeah for a well-trained I I mean it should be you know if you're hiring a lifting coach the human element should be a pro like it It shouldn't be a judge. The coach should not be a detriment to you, right? Right But now talking about detriments Mm-hmm

Just for some people just wouldn't rainbows. Yeah real here now like yeah Let's get down in the nitty-gritty dirt and get down in the dirty grease part of hiring a coach I would say for some people this maybe isn't even a con it all depends on your life situation what you're at But for a lot of people if they're comparing it, this is one of the biggest cons of it I think is the cost it's gonna be the most expensive option over the options that we're covering here. It should be. Like if your coach is cheaper than, most spreadsheets and apps are anywhere between

a few dollars and $30 a month. Like if your coach is less than that, what are they doing? I would question what value they're actually providing unless they're just starting and they're trying to build up a client base But like if your coach is like $20 a month Might be questionable how much value they are providing maybe you got a good in with the coach and they're just doing that pro boner

Is that the is that the same I believe pro boners They're just doing it pro boner. They're not charging you they're doing it pro boner when you have a good buddy. They do saying pro boner? I believe pro boners. They're just doing it pro boner. They're not charging you, they're doing it pro boner. When you have a good buddy, they do a pro boner. They don't charge you anything. Hey, this one's on the house, I'm just gonna do a pro boner. That's just, some people are lucky that way.

Other cons, you would be, you can be limited to your coach's style. So this does come down again to picking a good coach and the correct coach for what you need. But I think when you're hiring a coach, you should understand, you know, what is their programming style? Like, are you hiring a coach that is an expert in the West Side method? Are you hiring a coach that likes to use an RPE?

Scale are you hiring a coach that like starting strength like if you're looking for If you're looking for someone with West Side and you hire a starting strength coach I would say you've done a very bad job here like you need to know what you're looking for and what you're trying to get out of a coach and a very bad job here. Like you need to know what you're looking for and what you're trying to get out of a coach. And part of that does come down to understanding their coaching style and methodology. Yes. An ideal you'd pick one that also aligns with your goals. Yes. Um,

this couple of these cons circle back to like did you actually get a good coach or not because some of these things will be like because if you got a shitty one this is where some of the cons might line up where if you got a really good coach these aren't actually going to be cons these are just potential cons that and it's real like this absolutely happens very very often like anyone that knows that these are real things that happen. But not if you have a really a coach that's doing a good job. But here it is, are they just providing a spreadsheet anyways? At that point? Are you just you're just getting the template vendor, but you're paying for the coaching of it? You know, you're paying for a human coach. That's basically all they're doing is giving you a spreadsheet anyways, then all you're getting the same exact thing as what we'll talk about next, you're paying for a human coach. That's basically all they're doing is Giving you a spreadsheet anyways, then all you're getting the same exact thing as what we'll talk about next You're just paying the high price for it. Mm-hmm. See you want to watch out for that one

Um other things with the coaches or I guess a con it kind of goes to what I was just saying is You sort of do need to vet your coach a little bit And understand what you're getting into You know, it's kind of in a way almost like you're doing a job interview. Like you should understand or have some knowledge of maybe your coaches training history. Like how long how long have they been training? How long have they been training people? How many clients do they take on? You know, like am I getting am I getting a monthly check in for 10 minutes? Am I getting a weekly check in for 30 minutes?

Like, what, what does that actually look like? And just having that conversation up front, you just need to know because the expectations can vary wildly, depending on the coach and what you're paying. Talked about a pro being, you know, the additional education, a flip side of the coin as a possible con this this somewhat comes down more to the lifters attitude towards it, I think but If you just literally take everything they say and only do that and never think about anything and aren't analyzing your own training at all in any way. Do you ever really learn anything for yourself like to be able to? Because I would think if

someone you know, if you're coached for years and years by a person at a certain point, you should be able to do 90% of that coaching to yourself after a while, maybe they still have some stuff that you can't pick out on your own, but you should be learning as you're going. But it would be easy to not if you didn't care, you know, like you could just not learn anything around the process because you got someone there

doing it for you, you know, you don't really need to figure it out for yourself or figure much of anything out for yourself, you just do what you're told all the time. Mm-hmm Yeah, and that's and we'll kind of get to this. I mean you could almost you could at certain times make this argument with you know apps program spreadsheets to to a certain extent, but You know if you do have a coach that is very very hands-on You know, you might lack some of those critical self-reflecting skills that maybe you have more of when you're doing things yourself.

So definitely something to be aware of there. Final, I think this may be our final one on the list here. I'll say, yeah, final con is that a bad one could be really bad. So again, just know what you're getting into. Like if your coach, you know, if they are sending you spreadsheets and your spreadsheets aren't coming in on time, your feedback's not on time, you know, you might have a relationship with this person, you might not, but don't it's at the end of the day, it's your training. Like you're not there to fund their lifestyle. Like make sure that this coach isn't a detriment to your own training.

Yeah. I think that comes down to like, as far as a coach to summarize a coach, if you're going to make the commitment to pay for a coach, get a good one. And if you're doing it, and you're like, I might not have gotten a good one. I would reevaluate like, don't drag that out longer. You know, I would reevaluate. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, like this is a business, like they are, they are a business, they're providing a service and

You know if it's not if you're not satisfied with it like it's doesn't mean you have to hate the person forever You can just not want to exchange our money for their services any longer, right? Okay, now do we move on to the program slash spreadsheet slash app? Yes side of the equation and because we did talk about the coach Maybe depending on some of these we might compare and contrast them With the right lifting coach part a little bit more so I might bounce back and forth, but let's do it Yeah, so a pro Conversely to the coach a pro on the Program app spreadsheet side of it could likely be the cost there may be a cost depending on what what exactly you fall into there

There's probably some sort of cost maybe not maybe it's there's a lot of programs out there that you can get for free like Yeah, there's a lot of them you do and they're good program 3 1 read the book. You know how to do it Yeah, I'm gonna drink read the book you can do the program Yeah, there's lots of coaches that have 12 I mean well accomplished coaches that have 12 week programs 18 week programs for free out there you know that give you a taste of their style and Are are decent programs? Yes, so the cost at least relatively speaking it could be free and even if there is a cost

It's probably pretty minimal in comparison to paying for a coach. Yeah, and yeah, even on that side, you know, we you've said it I mean for years now like we've been using juggernaut AI. Um, as far as training apps go, I feel like that is somewhat on the premium side. You know, they are building an actual app. It's not a white label service. Like, um, I can't remember what those ones are called. Yeah. Can't remember that either.

But I can't, that might be one of those. Yeah, whatever it is. There's a couple of them out there where some people might not know this. Yeah Can't remember that even but I woke or something. Yeah, that might be whatever it is there's a couple of them out there where some people might not know this where there's a People that might have an app but really it's just a different service and they're kind of white labeling it and putting some things in And not a bunch of people have that yeah a lot of people do and not saying that that that's a bad approach but you are going to be limited to a certain extent by

What the app allows you to do because you're using someone else's system. Where Juggernaut is an app, they built from the ground up for the Juggernaut training system. And as far as that goes, the app with CodeMass Anomics ends up being about $30 a month. And I think that is probably on the higher side of apps as far as training apps go, but. I think it is probably on the higher side of apps as far as training apps go but I think it is probably on the higher side yeah I

mean I can't imagine there's a whole lot of power lifting apps that are more expensive than that but then again we were talking like $30 a month in comparison to a coach I don't think you're getting many coaches for less than $30 a month or even $30 a month no no I Think there's an element of convenience in the sense depending on what kind of personality you have but I May not I may be a person that I don't really want to have this meeting with this check coach I have enough phone calls and meet right right Right, I like I and shit like that in a week.

Right, right. I'm like, I'm not, like that's not, to my personality type, that's having that, some of that stuff is not a pro. I'm like, this is like a time sock. Like a chore, it feels like a chore. Right, right. Like, oh, you've just added another thing on my to-do list.

So that depends on what, how you relate to it, but I could, there is something extremely convenient at the very least You know not necessarily speaking to Effectiveness, but there's something very convenient about just having a spreadsheet and just like okay. Here's my numbers. You know that's it I did here's the plan. It's all laid out in front of me. I know what's going on here Next on the list we have no human error Next on the list we have no human error. Again, like if you have a good coach, you shouldn't be providing a lot of coaching errors, but yeah, a bad coach could easily send you the wrong spreadsheet, type in the wrong numbers,

just have a bad program and not be paying attention to what you're doing. So yeah, a spreadsheet with a little more defined program out front should eliminate some of those errors. Yeah, another thing I'll say on the pro side of it, if you are someone that's a bit of a self-starter, a self-term, you know, you get going on your own or you enjoy taking on something and teaching yourself about it,

it's a really good way to be able to learn more of it for yourself because there's a trial and error of using some of these different templates and spreadsheets. And if you're paying attention to what you're doing and what's working, you learn a lot of things. I feel like I learned a lot about what works for me by doing 5.3.1, by doing 531 by doing like, several, you know, Candido eight week training and you know, everything that I

maybe tried over the years, it stronger by science jackals, of course, you know, we start to learn by trying all these different things that are, you know, can be kind of somewhat vastly different and somewhat comparable in ways but there's just this learning process by trying these different things that are, you know, can be kind of somewhat vastly different or somewhat comparable in ways, but there's just this learning process by trying these different things and like, taking notes and feeling out what works for you. I mean, different training styles, different rep schemes,

different exercise selections. You know, through enough frequency. You're like, oh, I do, okay, I do see. This is how this works, okay. This is what they're trying to do here. Yeah, so you can kind of, you start to get a broader picture of things that maybe a coach with a certain training style, you wouldn't be subjected to as much variety. So you'd be missing out on a few things there. Yeah. Uh, and with, with apps, programs, spreadsheets,

with apps, programs, spreadsheets, you could say that they are based on a lot of experience, whether that's proven training models or the analysis of just hundreds or thousands of lifters going through them and gathering feedback on what does and doesn't work. They do have a certain level of scale that just a human coach will never be able to replicate. They get just so many data points thrown at them that depending on this falls a little more into the app category, but also to a certain extent spreadsheets.

If someone is getting a spreadsheet and they're making updates and changes to it based on feedback, if you have thousands of people looking at something, you are going to see scenarios and situations that you wouldn't have thought in the beginning. And you know, you could ideally make a more optimal program based off of feedback, science, all that going forward. One one other thing we talked about how the hiring a coach one of the huge pros is the Flexibility and the adjustments that can go along with it

What I would say is some of the apps, you know, we use juggernaut AI like we talked about it's pretty good at some of the adjustments Some of the adjustments the training adjustments like whether it's just daily training adjustments Whether it's how it adjusts you over periods of time whether it's just daily training adjustments, whether it's how it adjusts you over periods of time, whether it's frequency, volume, load. Exercise selection. Exercise selection, it's pretty good at some of those adjustments. Now you're still gonna be within a framework

of a certain style of training. Yeah. You know, it's not gonna, actually I do think they have change where you can even select some different. You can, I mean, if you really wanna start to pull the lever, you can start to deconstruct the stuff a little bit. I would also say with what it's really good at,

you're still within a certain framework, but it can make a lot of little adjustments inside of that. But those adjustments rely on the feedback that you're giving. You know, you're not going you're not gonna get someone else to look at you and make adjustments for you based on what they see. You know, it does, those adjustments are dependent

upon the user inputting information that is correct. And also being honest with yourself about your weak points, your strong points, what's going well, what could go better, and that is where you really get the most out of an app like that. Yeah.

Anything else on the pros? I think that's pretty good for now. Okay, so what about the cons? I would say one more, one more for a spreadsheet, a program app, and this could also be a pro for a coach, it just depends on how your coach operates, because there's just a lot of ways you could do this, but with these programs, apps, spreadsheets, it just depends on how your coach operates because there's just a lot of ways you could do this but

with these programs app spreadsheets is It creates a really easy to look back history log of your training too No, and you know if you keep your own spreadsheets or you have it on your phone or however you do it there's probably a way but Look at this probably does something an ad for juggernaut now But like in Juggernaut, it's very, very easy to go back and just look at your, just your history of squats or whatever lift you pull up at it. You know, if maybe you haven't done-

I do really like the history. Yeah, like maybe as an accessory, I switch out face pulls, I take those out for, you know, 12 weeks, 16 weeks, and then I decide, okay, I've gone through a few different training cycles here. I wanna add those back in. What the hell was I doing? I literally clicked the button,

and my entire history of face pulls was right there. And that's a good example, because it's like a kind of an accessory that you don't really think a lot about, and it's on the selectorized machine. So I'm not, that number doesn't really, I hardly remember that number on a week-to-week basis, let alone if I went a few months.

And yeah, I can just pull up that exercise and I can see every, every weight I've ever done with that ever across the board. So it makes it really easy to know your history on certain lifts. That's good, I think. Now for cons, we talked about the big pro of the form feedback on hiring a coach with going with any of these other options, you're not going to get that form feedback. You don't have a guaranteed reliable source for form feedback, especially if you're at the point in training where you could really use it.

You're gonna have to get I mean, you're gonna have to get some forward feedback if you're getting started So if you're not having a coach you got to get it somewhere Yeah, and luckily now there are a lot of online communities and options right to to get that out there But yeah, you don't have that maybe that that's safe space of talking with a coach where you can not be ripped apart for doing something wrong Another coach where you can not be ripped apart for doing something wrong. Another another con would be, you know, depending on what you go with a spreadsheet can definitely and I've felt this in the past where a spreadsheet can be more rigid, where it really feels like you're hopping on

the train. And, you know, if something goes off in the next, you know, if it's an eight week program or a 12 week program, if something doesn't go according to plan or things start going bad, it starts to be like, well, what the hell do I do now? Like, the numbers I put in, they're not jiving with what I'm doing. Do I start over? Do I just arbitrarily bump things down a certain amount? Like, you can get lost if things aren't going great or an injury happens or something like that. It can very much feel like, oh, yeah, I've been left behind by my program. That was the classic thing with like us all doing jackals.

Oh, yeah. When it's working, it's really working. When you have a problem, you're kind of like, oh, yeah. It's like if your shoulder is bugging you and you can't bench, it's like, oh, OK, what do I do now, though? Yeah, I don't have bugging you and you can't bench it's like, okay, what do I do now though? Yeah, I don't have the bench plan B program here, right? Right and part of that I would also say comes just with experience like now I think you would say the same thing here. Like when something is not going good. You have a much better Self-programmed option for how you get yourself out of that

Whereas in the past was like no you just keep pounding until it doesn't work anymore And then then you really have to figure out something or then you have to start all over Even for the stuff the feedback that you are getting the adjustments on a spreadsheet there is You know there's minor adjustments that you're gonna get like something like stronger by science you do get I actually think it does quite well for a spreadsheet But With an app you are getting adjustments, but it's based on those inputs that we you're putting in there

So there is no human eye. You don't have that You know you can you what's the speed tracker the velocity tractor tracker? Yeah, like the one I mean the one I have through Juggernaut is Smart Barbell, but there's a bunch out there you can. Yeah, so you could get that too, but it's still, and which it provides additional feedback, but it's still not a human eye. Yeah, you don't have that coach to keep you honest

and say, you sure about that? Right. Keep things on track. Yeah. We also wrote down here, Tanner, a plateau risk. To me, this one almost applies to anything. Like this is a risk with any form of lifting. I mean, you can be with a coach forever

and not change things. Right. You could do the same thing with a program. You could also hop programs and never get better too so right I I mean there's always that risk of a plateau with with anything but it just comes down to being honest with yourself and Saying am I getting the results I want from? The situation yeah, I think that that would like lead into part of my summary of the whole thing is

Any of these options can be good any of these options can be really good any of these options can be bad Any of them can be really bad no matter what it relies quite a bit on the lifter To like none of them Take a shitty lifter out of the equation. You know, I'm not a shitty lifter. I don't mean a weak lifter I mean a person that's like not doing what they're supposed to that's cheating. That's not Squatting to depth that's you know recovering from any workout. It's right Yeah, that's no putting full effort in so any of them can be great and can be awful all at the same time depending on the person utilizing them.

I don't know. I don't really think there is a right or wrong answer though. No, I think it comes down to your individual style for the scenario, the environment that you think you would thrive in. And yeah, that just comes from some self-reflection and understanding your personality type and what it takes for you to thrive. The only wrong answer I would say is if you're someone listening to this and you've definitively decided no, a coach is better for everyone or an app is better for everyone, that would be the wrong answer to me. That is the wrong answer, yes. That is what I would think That would be the wrong answer. That is the wrong answer Yes, that is what I would think you have got the wrong answer another one

Okay, I'll say one more thing on the coach also don't fall into this trap I think most people that have been around have figured this one out But I think more young lifters fall for this is just because someone is strong Do not assume they're good coach like that, you know, if someone's pulled 700 pounds and they have a coaching program, yeah, like that person's strong by all means. But I don't know, like, can they, like coaching is a business.

Like, do they handle feedback correctly? Do they understand how to program you? Do they understand how to get maybe someone that's a drug-free athlete ready for a meet versus an athlete that's on drugs? like there's a lot of variables there So again, don't just Pick a coach because you perceive them to be strong Or that they have a big media presence. Well and that

Brings up a point to me about coaches what a really good coach between an okay coach like some coaches might understand programming really well between an okay coach like some coaches might understand programming really well But still not be good coaches because there is like understanding and implementing it. Well, and there's also just a Communication skill mm-hmm of like a really good coach You know someone could know every X and O to compare to a sport about football, but still not, they're still not a good coach. Right. Yeah. Like the players, you're still not good at, right. You don't, they're not motivated to play. They don't want to, you know, succeed under your or take part in your system. Like there, there is a human factor to it when you have a coach. Right. I think a lot of people don't want to admit that on certain things.

I mean, same thing for business too. Like a lot of people are like, Oh, I have all the skills, but so-and-so makes it work. And it's like, yeah, because they got the human part down, man, they're connecting with people. Yeah, I would say this. If you can find a really good coach that knows their X's and O's of strength training that's also a good communicator that you enjoy talking to, and if price wasn't a factor, I would

say that would be the better choice. But it's like like if but even there all those things To me, that's like now you have the the possibility that this could go good like that's right It's still not a guarantee that this is gonna go good. No, I know it's not to guarantee But like all those things you said it feels like you're saying the exceptional person But it's also like that kind of feels like that should be your expectation if you're hiring a business I mean at the end of day like a coach is a business like If you're hiring a business, I mean, at the end of the day, like a coach is a business. Like if you're hiring a business to help you get better at something,

they should be a good communicator. They should be responsive. They should be on the same page communication-wise as far as how this is gonna work. Like they should be helping you get stronger. And if like they're not checking almost all those boxes, it's like, what are you doing here? Yeah, but it's funny because there are a lot of people that aren't checking those.

I don't think there's I mean, thanks to the Internet and social media. Yeah, I think there's a lot of coaches that that maybe check half of those, maybe. Right. Yes. Anything else to wrap it up in a bow? Rose versus cons, drop a comment in the YouTube. What do you do? Have you done both? If you've done both, which do you like better? Is there one that you don't like?

Did we miss some really important pros and cons of either of them? Are you like, oh, you guys haven't had a coach, so you don't know the biggest secret pro that those of us that have a coach, we only understand it. Because you're an outsider. You don't know when biggest secret pro that we, that those of us that have a coach, we only understand it. Because you're an outsider. You don't know when you join a coach,

there's a special club you're entered into and only these people know the secret. Yeah, so let us know, please give away the secrets in the comment section. Let us know what we missed. Does that wrap it up on that? I think so. I think it's been wrapped.

All right, that's way too much sets and reps talking. So I got to ask you, do you know who Timmy Trumpet is? No. Yeah, maybe you've, this is, it's funny because I was listening to this song in the gym the other day and someone came up to me and goes, Oh, I thought maybe Tommy was back in the gym. I hadn't heard music like this in the gym for so long. And like the most popular song is Narco by Timmy Trumpet. All right, let's

see. Maybe I do know. I just never. And I, it's, I use it in a couple of memes. It's I use it in a couple memes It's the walkout song that they play for the I believe the closer for the Mets Okay, I saw that. Okay. See when I just really like it. Let me I like the trouble here this to you No, okay No, but Tommy's Sampling Timmy Trumpet so anyone else you can go pause this. I mean, yeah, I've heard this song Yeah, they play it all a lot of sports, but then he's got a couple others Yeah, I mean he's got a whole bunch of songs Of course, I suppose but he's got a handful of other ones that I've started to like too, and I really like the trumpet

Mix with what style of music is that would you call that? Sorry, was that I just you said what was the what you're well, I like I really like the trumpet style But I feel like it accompanies the style like the EDM kind. Yeah, like I think it's trying EDM I like the I like the juxtaposition of the trumpet playing. Yeah the EDM music Yeah, I've definitely heard some of these like this Yeah and a lot of them are from like when I was paying more attention to this scene a lot more from like 2013 to 2017.

So you've never really paid attention to this name though that never stuck out to me, but I have heard some like freaks and that one has a half billion plays. So I've heard of that and yeah, I have heard a few of these before though. That wouldn't be my most typical frequent music enjoyed but I found listening to them like, I kinda like most of these. Yeah, I feel like this got mixed into a lot of like DJ mixes like this would be a song that would appear for 30 seconds in a random DJ mix that you'd. Right, right.

That the Narco is played at like sporting events a lot and stuff too, you know, like it just. Yep. So that's it, that was Timmy Trumpet. Okay. So Timmy in there, I didn't know for sure what was. Timmy! I've heard there's this character on South Park

named Timmy. Have you ever seen him? He's in a wheelchair. Have you heard about this? Have you seen this? No, that's Jimmy. Jimmy. Jimmy.

It's so stupid now thinking about the concept of those two characters. Yeah, because what was that? Jimmy's like a stand-up comic Yeah, have you heard about this? Have you seen this? Okay, we got some random things here Oh one more training talk item I had mentioned this I think you posted on Instagram I've sent you clips of me doing face pulls, sitting down in my gym using the Spud Ink long ab strap.

And I sit, I use the low row plate to really anchor myself in. I'd never done face pulls before. I tried them standing up and I'm like, I can't find the spot where I'm not just cheating it with my body. And I saw some video of, I can't even remember where it was online

of someone saying yeah you can like put your feet on something to anchor you and so that's what I I did the uh I mean I'm not the first person to do it but that's what you invented it I invented it I'll take it okay yep I backed it back backtrack everything I said I invented seated faceballs but with the long abstract I might have been who who knows but anyways about a week ago I saw Joe Sullivan had a post saying guys. This is the way this is how You need to be doing face pulls and was it your way. It was the long ab strap and it was seated He was doing them a lot. So you have to be Somewhat shorter and also have an enormous Lap pull down machine to do it because he was sitting where you would do lap pulldowns With the sweating long abstract. I mean I would I would need a lap pullover

Right with that feet all right for me to do that But he was doing it and he was doing just like I did you put your hands in it and he's like I've never I've never felt like the lap facepals have never felt so good. He goes I'm doing them for all my clients going forward This is the way to do it. I saw Johnny Candida would like reposted it too. He's like, oh, I got to try this. And I'm telling you, man, that is the way to do it. And you can, with the long abstract, because it is that soft fabric and it is so long, you can either do the thing where you kind of loop your hands inside of it, where it kind of goes on your wrist. And that's one feeling because it kind of takes grip out of it completely then. Or

the other thing that I started doing Recently when I cut my hand I couldn't do that because it was going on the cut is you can just grab the strap itself And it's dumb, but actually grabbing the strap makes it feel different again, too Tell it I actually I do I love that movement I'm I just have a hard time ever taking that out of the rotation now because it feels great So I might have to give those a try sometime I don't think I've ever done that. Yeah, that's the way to do them get that out of all the things you said there I have like three follow-ups. I'm gonna have to try those and I'll follow up with those

Well, do you have the sputting long ab strap though? That's the first one might need to get that thing. We've got a really long Dual strap. Oh you do. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it's blue. I don't know if you remember it, but each side is like that long Oh, I've got a couple different ones. Yeah. Yeah, like I I don't know that we have the spud-ink-desktraps.inc.com-strap one We've got some that same thing I think well if you don't you know if that one isn't up to par you know where to get the good one at Right spud-ink-desktraps.com. They are incorporated You mentioned Johnny Candido. Have you watched any of his YouTube videos ever lately? One at right spud deshing test traps calm they are incorporated

You mentioned Johnny candido have you watched any of his YouTube videos ever lately if he's occasionally posted a couple things I Actually, I've to be totally honest. I never have really kept up with him that well I like the last eight years and no I know even less so now He takes a little a lot of some really hard state I watched like one video and I'm like, makes a lot of bold stances on things too to the point where I'm almost like, which is fine, everyone's entitled to do what they want. And I'm like, you're gonna like,

you kind of rub a lot of people the wrong way by the way you say some of this stuff, I think too. Which he's a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to training and that sort of thing too. But I'm like, but I'm like sometimes I I feel like gosh to it'd be a weird place to come from to feel like you know that you absolutely know Yeah, so many things. Yeah. Yeah, I that are More subjective in my eyes at times, right? You know like no, I know

That's why I just I have a hard time like watching his stuff Too closely. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely know what you mean One other small follow-up on that is because it was the ab strap or whatever the spud ink one was called It reminded me I've been continuing to do the ab wheel rollouts. Yep making great progress today I did three sets of eight and they were They are hard. Yep at this point still, but not debilitating. Right, you don't feel like you're

actually causing bodily harm. So like a month in, I am now able to, like I'm just barely, like a week ago, I was doing like three sets of five and they were, you know, or we two weeks ago, or whatever the progression has been. It's just been very slowly getting to where I'm like, OK, I can do like take on a little more, a little more. And it's I think like a month from now, I may be back to being able to be real good at them, even at a certain point.

Real, real, real ab wheel expert over. Yeah. Yeah. But it's funny how that progression go like how it's so hard and you can get better at that. OK, this is actually what I really wanted to talk about I completely forgot about this and I see it here on the list now. I posted on it Instagram I made this sort of a post the other day It was a video of me bench benching and this is a This goes back to just a stupid thing in the gym where it's like your brother reminds me of it the most Where we like to say like yeah, this came from like lone wolf strength training like a video

Ten years ago, and he said deep cuts that that dips were the squat of the upper body and then like Ryan will just like just say it like oh it's like 80 things the The whatever of the lower body or whatever the upper body and like the dumber you can say it for the dumber comparison You make it's like ah yes Spudding ab strap face pulls yes the the leg extension of the upper body But so I posted a video of a bench and I said is bench press the squat of the upper body Some people say yeah, it is the squat of the upper body. A lot of people say dips are the squat of the upper body

And I'm curious What do you think is the squat of the upper body and how do you analyze it now? I am and why do you come to it? I'm no exercise scientist I don't even pretend to be so I my logic is probably deeply flawed I'll just say that out first, but what is your what is your feeling? I why I like the idea of the bench being the squat of the upper body is that There is a barbell involved first of all, I feel like squats typically

involve the barbell. So if a movement, at least the way we think of squats. At least the way I think of squats, and I mean the way that squats actually matter is barbell involved. So if your movement is the squats of the upper body that does involve a barbell, you're already taking a pretty big jump there. So I'm not super on board with that.

The second thing that I like about the idea of bench is that you have to unwrap and bring the weight out before you start, just like a squat, which again, supports the bench one. You do have to hit a certain point of depth in the bench as well. And then you do have to bring the weight back up. So, you know, maybe I'm a little too simple in my logic here, but those things make me really lean towards the bench being the squat

of the upper body. The other thing that I would add to that, and I have counterpoints to it, but the other thing I have to add to the bench press being the squat of the upper body is In powerlifting it's You squatting you bet. So there's that first of all, okay, that's powerlifting. All right. I'm on goose training in general

whether you're a power lifter not so much a strong man, but a bodybuilder, whatever it is, a vast majority of people, one of their primary lifts that they do is a squat and a bench press. The first thing you come in and do on an upper body day, a press day, maybe it's an overhead press or maybe it's a bench press How many people is their primary upper body pressing movement the dip? Now I'm not saying nobody it is for nobody But I'm not saying that there's nobody that's not like your primary upper body. Yep It's my dips like in how we talked about training programs and templates and saying how many things do you go and you're like? Yep, upper body press day dips. First thing, let's program the dips. Well, it's way hard to load.

I mean, not that you can't load it, but it's really hard to incrementally load and progress. It's harder, here's what I'll say. It is harder to incrementally load and monitor, monitor track progress than weights on a barbell weights on a barbell is why the main lifts are all weights on a barbell you know right like yeah it's I mean we know a lot of people that have gotten to three and four hundred pound benches I mean you're gonna

load 400 pounds on you for dips that's not a certain point nobody does that I know like I'm just saying like literally don't do it yeah you know so like on you for dips. That's not a thing. Well, at a certain point, nobody does that. I know. Like, I'm just saying, like, people just literally don't do it. Yeah. You know, so, like, whether even just taking out the actual comparison of the specific lifts, it's just like, what is the thing that people do? And in a powerlifting context, especially, it makes no sense to go that far down the road of being a dip expert versus, like, well, why would you just get better at benching

if you're going to be putting all this upper body work in? Right. Um, what I would say in favor of the dip based on what I guess I've thought about or what I've heard people say. Now I don't necessarily, this isn't my, this isn't what I think, but the squat is at its core, a body weight exercise that you then load. It doesn't, it doesn't require additional equipment. Right. Or, you know, it could be a kettlebell or again, you're going to be very limited to what you can load in a

hurry. But you can do the movement without equipment You on a bench press equipment. You just lay down and move your arms up Right you could I mean so So that's one thing it It's just that loose thing. But then the other thing, no, I'm not sure about this. I've heard people say it. And I really, I'm just not sure.

The squat, a very compound movement that requires your entire body. Yep. They'll say, well, that's what dips. You know, dips, it's your shoulders. It's your triceps. It's your dips, you know, dips. It's your shoulders. It's your triceps. It's your chest. You know, it's your core and all that. I'm like, that's what someone would say in favor of the dip in this comparison. But isn't it true for the bench press too?

I mean, I can tell you my lower body's involved way more in bench press than it ever is in dips. Because you're kind of connected to the ground also. Tell me how much you bench with your feet up versus with your feet down. So like, doesn't that indicate right there that your lower body does play a role in the bench press? Right.

I mean, your legs can be doing anything on the dips. You could not have legs. You could not have legs. Well, you could not have legs in new bench too. You could, but it's not even really hard to do a little bit. Yeah. Then the other thing I thought in that comparison so if you start making those reasons why it's dips instead of Instead of bench

Then I would go even farther if that's the reasons you're gonna say it's dips because you don't need you know There's no equipment. It's a bodyweight thing at a certain point I'm like well, isn't it push-ups then if like that's the logic you want to use, why is it dips? Yeah, that's- Then to me, it's pushups. I think you could, if you're gonna allow dips, I think you could very quickly get to pushups. But my whole thing is like, in our context especially,

if we're talking about squatting in a power lifting, you know, to more of a power lifting standard with our conversation here, I mean, the very act of that Revolves around using a weighted barbell a barbell that you're loading with weight and you can't do it You cannot load a barbell with weight four dips. That's not a thing, right? So that's just where the bench to me wins out on that some other people said The overhead press is the squat and I could I could I could see that but actually what I think the overhead press is the squat.

I could see that, but actually what I think the better comparison is, I think you say the bench is the squat of the upper body, and the overhead press is the deadlift of the upper body. Yeah, you're starting, yeah, that's why I think. You're starting at the, yeah, that's why. I think the overhead press has the deadlift of the upper body is a pretty good comparison. I think so, I think starting at the yeah, that's why I think the overhead press has the deadlift of the upper body is a pretty

Good comparison. I think so. I think that's very good. Like it's It actually that being a good comparison. It's really the idea that the bench is the squat Yeah, I think you know a purist would say well, but the deadlift is a pole So maybe like you need a seal row is the deadlift of the upper body, you know If you want to be really literal with it, you get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

Or like an upright row, but even an upright row. I guess all the, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a, yeah, cause this, yeah, I could, but an upright row just feels too close to a deadlift already. I know, at a certain point you're like, no could but an upper arrow just feels tricky I know at a certain point you're like no, you're sort of just you're just a variation of it Oh, yeah Like you're sort of just doing the movement like in the in the for the for the sake of the game It's too similar. I feel like they're right. I think so, too That's where I that would be my hang up on that is you can't make those comparisons because the that's just at its core

Almost the same lift. Yeah, it's like, oh yeah, you really went out of the game by doing that. Right, it's too similar. Right, right. It's funny because it's so stupid. But you could, you could really, you know, you can apply as much logic as you want here in personal bias and actually come to an answer, you know? I think this is a question, you know, what was the infamous question that we had to ask everyone? The best gauge of strength.

But I think this is a good one, yeah. I think what is the squat of the upper body? I like that. And also what's the deadlift of the upper body? Yes, that's the follow-up question. And I think how you answer that question affects or may even change how you think about the answer to the first question. True, yeah. Because I think when you say, we're on a similar page,

when you say that the overhead press is the deadlift of the upper body, that strengthens the case for the bench being the squat of the upper body to me. Because then you're like, you're taking these, those are the four core movements. That's what I go back to in strength training. Those are the four core movements

in strength training almost. You know, like. The logic we move though is we've kind of have painted ourselves into this corner of like those being the only right answers. Right, right. Mostly because, you know, we're talking about, we sort of have arrived at, well,

for the sake of this game, you need to be using barbell movements is kind of where we have landed at. You know, if someone, and I do feel like that is the more right answer here, but if someone doesn't care as much about powerlifting... All right. Also, like, if you don't care as much about powerlifting

the game of the squat of the upper body and the deadlift of the upper body, they're like, well, why did you pick those two exercises and it's like well because those are the power lifting movement right? Why I don't even care about those movements like so this games dumb from the start, you know Like we do part about the game like we do kettleball swings, what's the kettlebell swings? What's the see? I don't even know enough about that's like I don't know kipping pull-ups Kettlebell swing I think kipping pull-ups is the kettlebell swing of the upper body It's also funny you get

the The also confusing part about the whole thing is like well the squat is like a whole body movement almost The deadlift really feels like almost that's like an all body movement that's where the So hard part becomes of like the row because it's like on the deadlift You're already using your entire back along with your glutes your hamstrings. You're kind of almost doing the same thing Yeah, it's what makes the game even dumber because it's like what is the deadlift of the upper body? Well, you're already using a lot of your upper body to deadlift, you know, yeah Yeah in a literal sense you would say well what upper body movement involves the most pulling but

Yeah, I don't it just feels like all yours talking deadlift variations now well a pull-up is a pull-up Well, it's a pull-up is a pull-up the deadlift of the upper body. If you're gonna talk Body movement weights is a pull-up the deadlift of the upper body. It is It's where do pull-ups dips and push-ups fit into the whole scenario is actually a pull-up is a Yeah Pull-ups and dips go together really well to me in my opinion. They're both of the upper body of course, but they are the inverse of each other, at least in the upper body, I would say.

Or is the pull up the inverse of the overhead press? Yeah, kind of was literally moving your hands in the exact same plane of motion almost at that point. Yeah, it is. the challenge here is that factor of having a barbell versus not having one. That's what messes the whole thing up. I mean, all the points that we've made or the points we've made against it or for

are all so stupid at the end of the day is why I like the conversation. And it's like in the comment section, so many people are like no it's dips I feel like there is a certain there is a group of people that want to die on the hill So that actually is the thing yeah, there's a group of people that are like no dips are the squat of the upper body Definitely a group of people that are very strongly in that camp. I mean, I understand where they're coming from, but my just. Yeah, I mean, you're starting at extension, you know, and you're weighted

and you go down to like depth. But I just, the fact that it's not a barbell that you're manipulating is the part that doesn't quite sit right with me. What if you could, uh, what if you could do dips with like the Mars bar or like the power pole on you and you're yeah Yeah, or that but what about the Mars bar? Then it is the Mars bar true and you're just loading that up but there's so little weight anyone could load like you're gonna get to like a Hundred pounds be like oh my god. I don't even know is someone that's really good

Would they be able to load 150 pounds for five reps? Would someone be able to do that? That would sure be a lot I would say I mean actually back in the day DJ doxy at the YMCA was the dip master and I'm pretty sure he could throw like Four or five plates hanging between like it was actually insane, but that's like Pounds right right and that was pretty wild to see yeah, and also we're talking a guy that's incorrect I mean you also have to be somewhat who's built as a weight 300 pounds already Right you can't you just can't load it very much. Yeah, that's the interesting part to

body weight into as far as the comparison, body weight for dips is kind of, body weight for pull-ups is obviously a hindrance. Body weight for dips, I mean, you'd say it's a hindrance, but body weight for squat, you're not like, oh, squatting for you is gonna be tough. You've gotta move that 400 pounds of your fat ass up and down. Like, that's gotta be tough for you.

We're all thinking it, but. No. Like you don't do a squat and be like, well, there's a thousand pounds on the bar plus my 400 pounds of body weight. But someone would be like, dips, they're like, well, I've got 90, you know, it's my body weight plus 90 pounds.

Yeah, yeah. You know, like. You can say, you are insane. No. Yeah, so it's my body weight plus 90 pounds. Yeah. You know, like you say, you are insane. Yeah. So it is funny. Referring to squat that way. That way, yeah. People like people love to play the game very quick of, you know, at factory and it. Well, heavy guys love to factor in how much they weigh and then light people

don't like to acknowledge that they don't weigh anything, you know. Right. Right. So the barbell just like evens that all out, you know, it takes that out of the equation. Right. Yeah, cause anything that's a barbell exercise, not that weight's not a factor, but it's actually just the opposite. The weight is the factor of the opposite direction

whenever you're using a barbell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is kind of funny. So then that makes it even harder case to compare the dip to the squat then I think I think so totally I 100% agree I mean I I knew lots of people near middle school that when you do the presidential fitness test That could knock out, you know 10 to 15 pull-ups weren't really that strong you're like a

Seventh grader that weighs a hundred pounds like it's, you know, seventh grader that weighs 90 pounds. You're just really, really light and lean. And also, I mean, you're in shape, but you're not really that strong. Right. So what is your definitive answer? What lift is the squat of the upper body? The squat of the upper body is the bench press.

The overhead press is the deadlift of the upper body. All right. And on our YouTube channel, if you're listening just on audio only on Apple podcasts, wherever else, go on our YouTube channel if you're listening just on audio only on Apple podcasts wherever else Go to our YouTube channel to drop a comment on this discussion This is that's where we want to funnel the comment the commentary on this because I think there'll be a lot of discussion Yeah, are you in agreement with me there? Do you have any objections at the end of the day? I'm in agreement I've thought about it quite a bit since I posted that just as kind of a joke because Ryan and I joked about that.

Oh, I saw that. It was something we always get talked about. That's why I didn't think that there would be anyone that would take that seriously when I saw that post. Yeah, so that was where the motivation from that comes from. But as I've continued to think about it, I understand the case for dips, understand why someone would say it. I understand why someone would maybe say overhead press

But I think I've got to say that the bench press is the squat of the upper body for all reasons discussed here today I'm just trying to look at some of these But let us know you know actually let us know in the comments You know what do you think is the squat of the upper body if you want to go further than that? What is the deadlift of the upper body and provide some of your reasoning? Well, actually, you know, we didn't, uh, I do see Sam's comment here and we didn't discuss this. What is the bench of the lower body? You know, just, you flip it just because the bench is the squat of the upper body doesn't

necessarily mean that the squat is the bench of the lower body. What is the bench of the lower body? I would almost say I? Don't know because this contradicts so much that I've said before but I feel like the bench of the lower body Well Kind of do feel like it's the squad a little bit because I was gonna say it's like the leg I'm gonna say the I was like us like the leg that's what I was thinking of for a second That would be more like a Smith machine Ben Yeah, a Smith machine an inclined Smith machine bench of the lower body would be a leg press write that one down I

feel really confident about that the inclined Smith machine press of the lower body is like breasts Or maybe a axe maybe that's the most important thing we took from this discussion Yes, what a Crunch be the opposite of a back extension Crunch be the opposite of a back extension Are there I mean yeah, well, that's not the game we're looking for opposites here really conferred That's true, that's true. We're not looking for off. Yeah, it's a same but different

Yeah Hmm. Yeah, there's some interesting comments in here. Yeah a lot of dippers and in the yeah So I'll be curious to see the discourse on that one in the YouTube YouTube comments some people are gonna be coming for blood on that. I can already I can already sense Uh, yeah, I think so gonna be like you dumb bastards. It's the dip. And now you just sit there and listen. I've let too much go on this meeting page for too long. He's like, you fricking idiots. This is where I draw the line. First you convince me cottage cheese is good.

I will not just stand idly by and let you say that the dip is not the squat of the upper body. I have to think about the sentence every time. What it even is. You keep saying it every time you're saying it. I'm thinking is he saying the right thing? Love it. I want to we're gonna have to do some polls on that too. Like what the isn't that the bit of all the ones we talk about isn't that the one you want to know though what is the squat of the upper body? Yes. Yes. That is the most interesting. That is that that's the of all the things you could say. That's the one you that's the one to be talked about though

Right can we all agree on that? I think so you're not dying to know what the overhead press of the lower body is No, not especially or the What's what's the feet up bench of the lower body What's what's the feet up bench of the lower body? The feet up bench of the lower body would be I guess that would be like Hatfield squats field squats

Hatfield squat I'd have to think on that one a little more Used all my hands are in power is your I'm not sure but then I might think your hands are up But that might be the opposite of what yeah, I feel like your hands are helping you yeah Yeah, so feet up bench. You're taking your lower body harder So you need to do one taking your upper body out of the equation for squat so is that the belt squat? Maybe actually that might be closer to it. Yeah To me I follow that logic more where you're taking the other half out of the equation there, right? But the belt squat really is actually quite similar to the Hatfield squat of what well, yeah, but a Hatfield squat

But I mean the very fact of doing it Hatfield squat means you have to have your hands on something But most people belt squat that way Well, they do but I I always like when I do the belt squat if anything I try to hover my hands So I'm not because it's so easy to cheat it big time You know right a lot of people do that though like it feels like that's what I agree like I feel like that if anything They're just for a balance point for me, but I try to have like have my arms doing nothing Well, I think that's the way to do. I think that's the premium way to do it Oh would like to look with especially with like a lever arm type one if you get your your hands involved to a point where you're like lifting, you can just start loading weight up on that, you know,

makes me go back to what is then the lower body version of the legs up feet up bench, subvert variation of the squat that makes it way harder that you can do less weight So I feel like it's not just that though like it has to be sort of taking your upper You know the opposite part of your body out of the equation Yeah, that's way harder to do on the squat though That's right. I think the belt squat probably is the right answer there because you can do a belt squat where you take You know your upper body out of it. Yeah, okay

Yeah, that's enough of that. We could we could go down we could do that forever And we might I'm sure we'll do follow-up on what is the squad of the upper body next week probably We're talking about having some more guests on coming up in the future. We've got some exciting. Here's a, here's a teaser. We were talking about having another work former, uh, world's strongest man champion on the podcast. We've been talking with them. That's probably going to happen soon.

So let us know your guesses on, uh, you know, we've had a Mitchell Hooper on before it's only, I think he's the only champion that we've interviewed on the podcast. We've interviewed Kaz and Thor also before but not on the podcast. It's not either those ones either. So someone we've never interviewed before that's a World's Strongest Man champion coming to the Mastonomics podcast sometime soon. Let us know in your guesses who you think that might be. We're

pretty excited about that one and a couple other interviews that I think are going to be pretty cool think that might be. We're pretty excited about that one. And a couple other interviews that I think are going to be pretty cool to mix back in. We haven't done many interviews again for a while, we kind of got on this track, and I've really been enjoying it. But maybe that means it'll be fun to mix some of those in. Yeah, to after a while. This episode is brought to you by we mentioned it at length in our title topic, Juggernaut AI. Check them out at juggernautai.app. Go get signed up, you know, for all the pros

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Yeah, have you ever seen people do that before though? It's been a long time. Women do women do that. That's sometimes their only operational pocket. You know, the show that feels like you're playing with so many different forms of fire by putting your phone in your back pocket. I'd sitting on time falling out. Someone stealing it.

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nicest of the pro cell ones. Those are my favorite ones. Yeah. And someone had a set from like 10 to 75 for like $600. That was a deal That was a good deal. That was a good deal if I didn't have 5,000 dumbbells, I Want those also? Yeah, and besides the one I think was like the 60 pounder was more of that Solid cast one or whatever you call those but outside of that the whole set match It was you know, if I didn't have rep ins I'd be be hard not to go with that Yeah Speaking of equipment, I'd be be hard not to go with that Yeah Speaking of equipment. I've got

some piece of very cool vintage Weight equipment that's gonna be coming to massonomics gym. That's got a really really cool story behind it Oh that I'm that'll be exciting to share that all the sharks as Efren would we say was a big, big shark deal that went down in the vintage weight groups this week, and the real sharks were, I was fortunate enough that my name was on their list of people

that they might let in on the deal. And we'll share, I'll share it more once it's, once I've taken possession and stuff, but pretty exciting. So you're saying you got a pair of those special Jackson squat stands that Efren had in his garage. Is that remember, or was it the, the Jackson legs? Jackson vertical leg press.

Yeah, the vertical leg press is the only one about it. Yeah. You finally got it. You've ever since you saw that in Efren's gym, you won't stop talking about it. It wasn't that, but it is something that people carry almost a story of that nature It is Jackson related I'll say that oh, okay, so it's Michael Jackson related or Vintage Michael Jackson stuff. Yeah, not sure if I want it very much

Not sure if I want it very much Okay, you massonomic to YouTube we didn't really mention it all episode I don't think go to our YouTube channel the last video that's already been published is the multi-flight review is the Multi-flight review From temple of gains with you and big Kyle. That was a great equipment review video. I love that one actually I we actually never I don't think we've ever talked about that one even since no I that Multi-flight I was really impressed with us using that we've used like three different Sort of versions of that from other also like from other more expensive equipment

manufacturers, and that one's as good, if not better, than the alternatives from what we've used and just like it has. It has all the other ones beaten adjustability, like no doubt. Like there's no not even there's not even room for debate on that. Right. It is. It has the most utility amongst all of them them and it's the most affordable of them also So that's kind of facts. Yeah, so check out that that video if you didn't and then also by the time this comes out There will be our gym tour with big Jake from garage gym

experiment and home gym con our tour of his three stall garage gym his station garage gym he's got all these stations in there and his big three stall garage gym that we checked out in Indy. So watch that. I'll say it before I'll say it again. I don't know if we have the most gym tours on YouTube yet. But if we don't yet we will soon we probably do by now and ours are the best Nobody has better gym tours. I've seen other people make a good effort at it and there's some other good ones out there It's not to take away from theirs, but ours are better

Ours are better than theirs. We don't my rules just the way it is our gym tours are better than everyone else's There's not many things we do that I think ours is just like definitively better than everyone else's but I'll say it they can They can whoever wants to can come fight us on it fight me on it Our gym tours are better than yours if you're listening and you do gym tours ours are better than yours Mm-hmm, and I might not die on the bench press being the squat of the lower body How do I spin this to that our gym tours are the squat of the upper body So make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel we're getting really close to ten thousand subs on YouTube

Which is a big deal for us. So help us hit that we did just cross over 600 reviews on Apple podcasts. That was also a pretty big monument for us to to tackle to crossover. And that means there's going to be we always do something special whenever we hit the hundred mark on Apple podcast reviews. So be on the lookout actually, something special to commemorate that will be coming very soon. As a matter of fact, right around the corner. Yeah. Lift Hardly of easy classic is only like 45 days out, probably less than 40

days by the time this publishes. But who's counting? It is next month. That's a matter of fact, actually kind of hit me yesterday. I'm like, oh damn, it's like just weeks away at this point. Yes, it is next month. And also I'll be in home, Jim con Louisville in just a few weeks. Yeah, about three weeks recording content for massonomic.

So that's not mix. Never short on things going on. No short. I'm just is a machine in motion and it can't be stopped. Or at least we're not as a machine. And there's the two of us actually be stopped really easily. Well, it could be. But right now the machine is going and the two of us are just hanging off the back of it.

It's like a Mad Max movie and there's just all these just post apocalyptic machines with these crazy gremlins shooting flames and we're just barely hanging on for dear life. That's actually what it feels like. We're not even totally sure where it's going, but it's crazy and it's hot and presumably smells bad the whole time, too. There's diesel fumes everywhere. It's really sweaty guys with questionable clothing on everywhere.

And there's like a really weird mix of technology on the machine. They're like some of it seems really advanced, but some of it's really old. Yeah, that is massonomics. What it's like. And so and if I'm joined, you and I just barely hanging on in the back when Tom Hardy is like I don't even remember he's like hanging on by a strap and it's like dragging him across the desert That's kind of like us for the last year and a half right now Someone make that imagery and posted in the massomics discord and Instagram and stuff because that is what massonomics is

Yeah, it kind of sums up how I feel That is what massonomics is. Yeah, it kind of sums up how I feel. And we are just hanging on. I cannot do. I cannot make this clear enough that nothing has expressed how I feel more clearly than that image right there. And it's like, y'all good over there?

Y'all need anything? And it's like, yeah, I need a bunch of stuff. I don't even know what. And you get you get done watching probably and you're like really stressed out and sweaty and you're not even sure if you had fun or not it was just so hectic that's what it's like I think I was entertained. Yeah, I felt something. I don't know what the emotions are. Yeah Yep, that's it new new drop home gym home gym nerd tea one of the coolest shirts We've dropped in a while and then the comp meat tea if you're a power lifter I cannot see any reason why you would not own that tea and then of course

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Tommy, where do they find you at? You can find me at tomahawk underscore D. You can follow me at Tanner underscore Baird, but just please make sure to follow Mastinomics at Mastinomics. See you.