Massenomics Podcast - Ep.109: Julien Pineau Q&A with MindFit Podcast

Episode Date: May 7, 2018

This week, we have a special co-cast interview with Julien Pineau from Tyler's trip to CrossFit Valley Park in St. Louis, MO. We had a great discussion with Julien and the members of CFVP about the things the CrossFit community gets right, the things they've been getting wrong, and what he's finding we can do to make it better.  Special thanks to Brandon and Natalie from CFVP for hosting us, and make sure you check out Brandon's MindFit Podcast on iTunes.  CLICK THIS LINK TO CHECK OUT MINDFIT.

M-M-M-M-M-M-M-Massanomics Welcome to Massanomics, the world's strongest podcast. Find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Massanomics. Make sure you go visit massanomics.com. There you'll find the rest of our powerful content. While you're there, check out our store and buy yourself some of that sweet Massanomics gear. store and buy yourself some of that sweet Massanomics gear. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this week's episode of the Massanomics podcast.

I am Tyler and I am here by myself. This week's episode is a bit of a special episode. I just got back a couple weeks ago from Cross crossfit valley park in st louis missouri uh going through julian pinot and strong fits uh coaches week and weekend seminar i was there for the weekend and the whole week so um we've had julian on the podcast a couple times in the past uh i kind of was tempted to have him on again, sit down and interview him, but we had a unique opportunity here. Brandon, the owner of CrossFit Valley Park,

has his own podcast called MindFit, and we decided that what we were going to do is sit down and do a Q&A with Julian and with him and lots of the members of his CrossFit gym so they could kind of answer questions from the general population side of the CrossFit world. So you can kind of get the questions that the average CrossFit person had for Julian, which is probably a little bit more useful than me talking to him. So this is a bit of what you'd call a co-cast. This was actually episode

three of Brandon's MindFit podcast. You can find that on iTunes and really everywhere all things podcasts are at. I'll also have a link to that podcast in our show notes as well. But yeah, so we kind of got into all sorts of good stuff though. It was an awesome week of being able to learn from Julie and Richard, being around a bunch of other coaches. I want to thank Julie and Richard both, Natalie, Brandon, everybody from CrossFit Valley Park. We had a great week. It was a damn good time, a lot of fun. They put us up, took really good care of us, uh, fed us. So all of it was big wins for me. So, um, but some of the stuff we got into, um, some of the, I won't say problems with

CrossFit, but maybe some of the things that, um, a lot of CrossFit gyms or coaches end up getting wrong. Um, so if you see, you know, a lot of us, our audience here with Massanomics is a lot of the power lifting side of things. So if you look at the way a lot of crossfit training is done you think some of it is um ridiculous maybe give this a listen here and you might kind of see uh that maybe it's not the it's more an issue with the execution than it is the methodology so um but anyway julian's always a really entertaining guest he really knows his shit and um it's really nice to hear just regular questions from average people

and what they think of the principles we use with StrongFit and some of those other things so give this episode a listen it is MindFit episode 3 co-cast with Massonomics I think this is our episode I don't even know like 109

we'll call it episode 300 just for fun um but anyway yeah so thanks a lot for listening i will uh we'll see you next week i'm going to turn it over to the q a and um and yeah so enjoy this conversation with julian pinot uh brandon at crossfit valley park and uh this is the podcast mind fit and i'm your host, Brandon Jackson. And I have with me Julian Pinault, the creator of StrongFit, Troubles of Movement. So I'm doing great. Thanks. So we just finished Coach's Week, and before that, we had a StrongFit seminar on Saturday and Sunday. And then we had some coaches from really all over the country here. It was a cool seminar.

It was, it was good. I got the chance to be a part of it. I was in and out trying to run the gym and then trying to just hear what was happening through the week. So. The week was good too. It was, it was.

Just tell us a little bit about, just real quick, your background. My background. I've done sports for my life since I'm like, I think I was a national level sports in some like nine years old or something like that. So really it's been my life the entire time. And when I was 19, I found MMA, which was my, what changed really my life. And as I got better at that, my coach, my first coach in MMA got me to start teaching the warm-up you know in our classes and that gave me my first

experience as a coach and I knew right there that's what I wanted to do and so since then 1920 I've spent my entire life trying to become a better coach basically so that's been this has been my life for the entirety of my life really that's the only thing I've ever wanted to do really has been this well I'll tell you what from my experience now I've read a lot of your articles and I've watched a lot of the YouTube videos and we've talked on Skype a few times yeah but this is the first time I got a chance to just hang out for about a full week and you can tell you can totally tell you're very very very passionate about what you do. So I appreciate that. The folks that are part of our gym, I hope they appreciate that

because I do know that myself, Coach Natalie, my head coach, where's she at? So just in case if you guys are listening to this, we're in the gym right now. Usually it's in my living room when I'm doing this, but we have quite a few people out here in the audience, and we're going to get to some questions because people have questions of what in the world is going on around CrossFit Valley Park. So before we get to questions, you've been a part of CrossFit sometime. You did a little bit of CrossFit yourself. Yeah, I do. I discovered CrossFit in 2000. So way, way at the beginning

when they were way back in the ranch, just a friend of mine actually was doing MMA who told me about those crazy people back over there doing some rower and stuff like that. I was like, that's interesting. So we started looking at it. Back then it was very small. So nobody knew about it. And then in 2007, things started to pick up again.

And then I remember really falling into it in 2008 when I saw that they started to have the games. I was like, interesting. And in watching all those videos on the 2009 games, I was like, this is really cool where they're going with it. And so I did CrossFit for years. I just changed it a little bit because the barbell was not, Olympic lifting was not necessarily my interest. And so I did my basically Glassman's version of CrossFit, which was a lot more dumbbells and awkward objects back then. So it's so interesting that you say that because I've been a part of CrossFit since 2007.

Yeah. And that's a long time. Yeah. Most of these folks out here, raise your hand if you've been a part of CrossFit longer than five years. Ooh. Okay. So that's all coaches and two members.

Yep. And two members. So, things have changed quite a bit. So, you and I were part of CrossFit. 2011. Yeah. So, there was some barbell stuff in there. Okay, but people don't remember that, but if you look on the dot-com

from 10 years ago, 10, 11 years ago, you will see that the barbell was on average every two weeks maybe once a week usually every two weeks everything was done with dumbbells and weird movements yeah and coach glassman did not like the barbell because he was too specialized for him and made everybody use dumbbells instead which is what we have seen for the last since the last open from last year and regionals regionals last year only had dumbbell workouts. Yeah. So go to.com 10 years ago. Look at the workouts.

You will see the Hero workouts only once a month, 14 a year. So once a month on average about. And basically barbell between, so three times a month maybe. Where did, so I mean, I'll be one, I'll be a first to admit love the barbell. Yeah. I still like it, not so much anymore and it's probably our members especially if people's been around for a long time with me they've noticed that it's probably the barbell is only in a couple times a week and again I still love it but I didn't quite like the way

I felt so it's rubbing off on my our members and and and I I want to be very very sensitive and careful on how I phrased this but where did where did whether it is now let's be careful because I'm not going to tell you is a barbell I know I know I want to be very careful because this is a CrossFit gym. So I want to be. Okay, but let's talk about CrossFit then. Yeah. All right.

So it's a CrossFit gym. What is the definition of CrossFit? Constantly very functional movements performed at high intensity. Exactly. So functional movements. All right. So first of all, no one said barbell movements. We said functional movements, right?

Functional movement means mimicking life. That's what I would think functional movement is, alright? So when is it in life that the barbell has been around for 150 years about, right? The first one to use it was actually a French strongman called Apollo. Apollo's

axle. He took the axle from the back of his chariot and started pressing it as a circus thing. Because back then, all the strongmen had to have that one trick and then they would challenge the other strongmen with it. So he took the axle of the chariot and start pressing it as a circus thing. Because back then, all the strongmen had to have that one trick, and then they would challenge the other strongmen with it. So he took the axle of the chariot and start pressing it. That's basically the first time we saw a barbell. That's 150 years ago. The humans have been around for 300,000, right? We have never seen something that has such a small diameter to grab with that much weight on it. It is not a functional movement. That doesn't mean we cannot use the barbell. But if we go at the definition of CrossFit, which was functional

movement, then there are other things that are far more functional than the barbell. By the way, the dumbbell is one of them, right? So the problem with the barbell is you are on, there's a few issues with this. First of all is the fact that it's not that functional, I'm sorry. And second of all is you're going to always end up doing movements two arms at a time. You are never going to work in what they call a median axis, which is left versus right. So you're going to develop imbalances over time. You're going to favor your strong side.

And that over time can cause imbalances that will lead to injuries. So you can use the barbell, but you cannot use it all the time. That's all. You have to mix things up. The barbell usually has one grip, which is pronated, thumb facing each other. So again, you're going to build imbalances because you're

only doing one type of movement in one plane of movement. Usually it's up and down with crossfit. So all you're going to do is up and down with two arms at the same time, thumb facing each other. And that's it. So you cannot tell me this will not create imbalances. This is ridiculous. Look at humans. What are we built for? Wrestling. Stuff like that. Look at chimpanzees, how we wrestle and everything. It's many different planes of movement, many different kinds of grip, right?

The barbell has one grip, which is so my clothes, right? Thumbs facing each other. And we use it for up and down. You cannot tell me that this mimics life. That this will prepare you for wrestling. Or things like that. It has so many different grips, so many angles of movement. It's not. So, again, we can use it, but it cannot be just that. Right.

Then we are not following the CrossFit principles. I couldn't agree more. As much as I do like the barbell, because I do. As well, as well and what i have noticed um that i have pulled it back and and how my joints actually feel better it beats you up now uh i feel completely different today than i did one year ago it beats you up there it's not it puts you in certain positions that are far more dependent on skill, right? Because of the positioning of the bar, for example, on your shoulder.

The squat, we all say it's the best movement possible out there. But, all right, so they're still going to have to explain to me what a squat pattern is in nature. So since this is a Q&A, let's turn this into that. What's a squat movement in nature? That's your guys' cue. Yeah. What? To sit. To sit, but you don't need power to sit, right? So what's a, what's the squat in the sense of you're going to have to load your legs up and down to create movement, to create power, right? What would be a movement like that in nature? Okay, when you do that, you hinge at the hips, though.

You don't use, it's not a squat. You're not upright to lift something off the floor. You're going to basically lean over and hinge at the hip. So you have two different movements. You have the squat, which is up and down, right, like this, and the hinge, which is basically a pivot at the hip, right? If you look at what the squat is, it's a jump. When you have to stay as upright as you can and transfer the power to go up. It's a jump pattern. It can be with weight, but it's a jump pattern. So my question has always been, do you need to break parallel to jump? No. So can you find me a position where you need to create power with your hips below your knees? where you need to create power with your hips below your knees.

Because I can't find one. So that means 300,000 years of evolution, you never had to create power with your hips below your knees. And yet, they're telling me that's the best way to build the hips. Then, fundamentally, that cannot be right. Because evolution means we are getting better at the situations we've been've been seeing anything you have not seen you are not prepared for that's the that's the leading idea behind evolution basically so uh julian uh pause for a second where's tyler stone tyler stone you here big tyler yeah because we were one of we want to make sure people uh that are listening to this that aren't here hear the question. Nat, can you recall people?

Coach Nat, Tyler, Stone, can we record some questions here? When people have questions. Anybody have a question? Nat, can you recall people when they have questions, please? Okay. Yeah. Eric, go ahead. So Brent and I, I remember we were speaking earlier this week about certain breathing techniques that you can utilize when basically you're redlining. Can you dive more into some of those? All right. So it's not a trick, right? This has been going around for like about 3,000 years. Yoga has been talking about how to access with basically which is a nervous system in many, many different ways.

So what we worked on basically is using breathing to target the nervous system so they are basically part of the nervous system there are two sides I'm gonna make this short because it takes forever but you have one side that is called a parasympathetic nervous system which is relates to socialization which is a flow state right yoga all that stuff and then you have the other side which is a sympathetic which is what happens when, all that stuff. And then you have the other side, which is a sympathetic, which is what happens when you go toward fight or flight. Right? That's the idea.

And so if you start in a flow state, if you push an effort enough, you will always end up eventually to fight or flight. Right? So there are ways to use breathing to either stop you. You will always go there eventually, but to basically delay the moment where you go toward that fight or flight, or once you're in fight or flight, how do you come back toward a flow state? Those are the two sides of the nervous system,

and we can use breathing to be in one or the other, or to go vice, to try to block from going to the other. There's always a back and forth, but we can use breathing to try to stay in one versus the other as long as we can. That's the idea. So yoga has been going at it for a very long time. The problem with yoga is everything is namaste and staying in flow state, but that's not always what happens. Once in a while, the bear is coming. So you have to be, to go, if the guy comes at the bar to slap you in the face, you can't just go namaste, go ahead. He said bear gang, just so you have to be to go if the guy comes at the bar to slap you in the face you can't just go namaste go ahead he said bear gang just so you know the bear the bear the bear once in a while you have to be able to go to other sympathetic state right so that whole breathing technique to keep you into a flow state is not always correct we also have to find out the breathing that allows you to be

in a sympathetic state, in a fight or flight mode whenever you need to. So there are ways to do both. And so that's what we've been working on is how to access one or how to access both. So Julian, can you give us an example of when the bear is coming, like a workout? Would that be something like... So imagine you have to go a max box jump, right? Do you go at it very calm and going like, I got this. Have you ever gone to a max box jump with that mindset going like, I'm not stressed at all. And then you end up going like this.

You go up, don't got it. So you turn around, you come back, you go, nope, don't got it. I come back, yep, nope, still can't do it. Like this until you start. I know we all do it. It's not just you, believe me. They're laughing because they do that every time. Exactly.

And so when do you get it? When eventually you get so pissed. So think about the boyfriend or the spouse. Like I'm going to kill him. And then you can actually jump better. So it requires you to go into that almost anger state to be able to jump really high. That's the sympathetic side. The sympathetic side of the nervous system allows you to get that max explosive effort. Whereas if I want to go toward the 5k run, I'm gonna have to be in the flow state because if I go into

that angry state I'm gonna burn out fast. So then parasympathetic state which is more like a flow state, like a run, then I'm gonna go into a different kind of breathing for that. So there are very specific efforts into one side and very specific efforts into the other. Once we understand which one is which, then we can target things better like this. And so that's been the entire idea with the system is how do we differentiate the necessities of a max box jump

versus the necessities of a 20-minute Cindy workout. It's not the same thing. If you start Cindy like you're doing a max box jump versus the necessities of a 20 minute Cindy workout. Right. It's not the same thing. If you start Cindy, like you're doing a max box jump by minute five, it's going to hurt a lot. And minute eight is going to be horrible. Right. So you have to pace it basically.

That is not the same muscles that you're going to use to do that as you will do as you will use for a max box jump. You talked about the two different kinds, but what are the breathing techniques? Yeah. So you want me to explain that in the next 22 seconds? I'll take the challenge. So basically, it's when do you inhale, when do you exhale, and how do you do that? To become towards sympathetic, you're going to do a lot of mouth breathing. You notice when you jump into cold water, you get scared, you go like this, right?

It's very little inhale through the nose, but especially a certain way to exhale through the back of the throat. That has to do with the vagus nerve and the nervous system to skip that part. But the idea is when you want to go sympathetic, it's going to be a lot of exhale through the back of the throat. So you're going to inhale through your mouth and exhale through the back of the throat. That's going to allow you to access the sympathetic. Which is what you do anyway when you start to get really stressed out.

That's how you breathe anyway, right? Because you're stressed out, you breathe a certain way. If you breathe a certain way, you get stressed out. I can use that for max box jumps. But if I want to count myself down, right, my heart rate, I'm going to access what is called a ventral vagus nerve. So I'm going to basically do two kinds of breathing. I'm going to inhale through my nose and exhale through my lips. Or even the other way, I'm going to exhale through my lips on the way down and inhale

through my nose on the way up. I'm going to reverse the breathing they're telling you to count myself even more through a movement. So there are ways like that to access one or the other. Like ask Natalie, she'll give you an hour long lesson on ways like that to access one or the other. Like ask Natalie, she'll give you an hour long lesson on this and how to use it because the next, I can't do it in 20 seconds, but there are ways to do this. And it has to do with how you inhale, mouth versus nose, and how you exhale.

And there are combinations like that that target things differently. So we can go for full awareness, like kinetic awareness of your body, where you are, to full action where you have kinetic awareness of your body, where you are, to full action, where you have no awareness of your body, but you can do a max box jump. Totally different ideas because your nervous system

is not being targeted the same way. So there's an array and everything in between. Great. Monica? Can we talk a little bit about internal and external torques? Yes. I don't know what my real question is, but I'm trying to explain to people I know it's

not a very easy concept to understand internal and external. So the one thing that I know most people can understand is deadlifting. Everybody wants to have that pronated and supinated throat. So tell me the wrong thing about that. Yeah. So, first of all, and then this is a mistake I made at the beginning, is I said internal rotation, which was wrong, because it has

nothing to do with rotation, because it has nothing to do with the position of the joint. Right? The idea was, with torque, was the tension we create. It's a little bit like the intent that you have in a movement. Right? Which tension are you creating? avec le torque, c'est la tension que nous créons. C'est un peu comme l'intention que vous avez dans un mouvement. Quelle tension est-ce que vous créez? Si vous regardez un coup,

vous remarquerez que l'intention est de directer la tension vers le centre du corps. C'est ce que nous appelons un torque interne. Si vous pressez les bouteilles, vous remarquerez que pour devenir plus fort, vous avez une tendance à conduire les doigts vers l'autre. Internal torque. If you press dumbbells, you notice naturally to get stronger, you'll have a tendency to drive the thumbs toward each other.

So whether they turn or not is inconsequential. The intent is there. So toward the center of the body is what we call internal torque. And when the intent is opposite, let's say I pull on something really heavy, I'm going to start cranking basically with my thumb going toward the outside of the body. That's what we call external torque. So imagine if you're grabbing a barbell and you're trying to pull it toward you as hard as you can. You will notice you're going to introduce the idea of rotation a little bit to become stronger, right? Your elbow will come in, your thumbs will turn. That's going

to create what we call external torque. So it's not just turning the hand because that's just rotation. Rotation doesn't require much tension. The idea was how do you create tension? What is the intent behind a movement? Because that's a lot of the problem you see with the medical world, whether it's towards physiotherapy or things like this, is you see the anatomical chart is always about description and not function. And that creates a number of problems because description and not function. And that creates a number of problems

because description is not enough. We have to be able to explain what the function of the movement is. The biggest problem that you see, for example, is the pec is an internal rotator. Like if you look, the job of the pec is to internally rotate the humerus. All prends un pied-de-pied que nous avons ici et je le baisse. Tout le monde baisse un pied-de-pied. Vous utilisez beaucoup de poignets pour faire ça. Alors, qu'est-ce que nous voyons? Tyler va garder ses bras droit face à tout le monde et il va basser le pied. Vous voyez combien de pied-de-pied il utilise?

Vous avez remarqué que ses épaules tournent de cette façon, n'est-ce pas? Vous avez remarqué que c'est une rotation externe des chimeres, mais il utilise ses PECs. Comment ça fonctionne? Ça veut dire que s'il a une rotation externe des chimeres, il ne peut pas utiliser ses PECs, si le PEC est un rotateur interne.

Donc maintenant, nous avons un problème. Et donc, tout est comme ça. C'est le problème entre la description et la fonction. C'est le problème entre description et fonction. Et donc ça crée un problème, parce que soudain, oui, le PEC tourne l'intérim intérieurement, mais il passe par là, il va vers l'intérêt. Quelle est la fonction du mouvement que nous devons créer et tout. Et c'est donc là que'idée de la torsion vient. Et depuis là, on a commencé à pousser l'idée, et on a fini par avoir l'idée que quand on a de l'intérêt d'intérim, il y a certains muscles qui sont utilisés, et l'intérêt extérieur est un autre type de muscle, mais en fait, des pieds jusqu'au cou.

Donc l'idée était que cela semblait être, il n'y avait que deux groupes de muscles, dans ce sens, pour fonctionner. Il y a le groupe de muscles qui vous permet d'aller vers l'intérêt intérieur, So the idea was like this seems to be there's only two muscle groups in that sense for function. There's muscle group that allows you to go toward internal torque, which is like a hollow position. And you'll see everything going toward contraction. Or you go toward expansion. And that's all the muscle toward external torque. And it seems to be really two basically muscle groups that are completely different in their function. So that was the idea behind torque.

One allows you to go toward contraction, the other one toward expansion, if you want. So that's a very important concept because that means that all those muscles are linked together, but through function, not description. So I'm going to elaborate because I saw her, she was doing the deadlift, the mixed grip.

Yes, and then I'm going to explain why, yeah. Okay. Okay, so now you're going to turn the hand like this, right? So if you keep everything with the same tension in, then it would be fine. But what do you see most people doing? They allow, when they turn their hand, they're going to create external torque with the left hand, but internal torque with the right. That means this is going va vers la contraction,

et l'arrière-tourne vers l'extension. Vous voyez que quand les gens tournent la main, ils tournent aussi le pied. Regardez les gens, je sais que c'est stupide, mais quand ils tournent la main, ils tournent aussi le pied. Donc maintenant, vous avez ce côté qui va vers l'autre, et ce côté qui va vers l'autre. Donc, ce qui signifie qu'au-dessus, ils ont la tendance à tourner comme ça. this side coming this way and this side going that way. And so that means on top, they have a tendency to go like this. And now they're turning their pelvis under load and they're using the left lumbar erector far more than the right. So basically they're pushing on

this side and turning on this side. So of course that makes them turn the whole body and we see this a lot. And so now you're doing it usually with the same grips for thousands of reps with a lot of weight. What could go wrong? Because the truth is when we see people do that, you were over exaggerating, but it only takes a little bit. And sometimes I'm not. I've seen people do this to shrug on one side.

I've seen a lot of people finishing like this. They just don't notice they're doing it. That shoulder is back. This shoulder is here. This is how people finish. Except it's not it's not obvious

but you do it a hundred times and the intent is vastly different. And that's the problem. So that shoulder will go back. That means you're going to target

instead of keeping the pecking gauge you're going to go toward your traps. That means you're going to do this on every keeping the pecking gauge, you're going to go toward your traps. That means you're going to do this on every rep. Imagine what you're doing to your neck. And you do that over a very large amount of weights for a lot of reps. It's going to wreck you.

Because when people do do that, they never switch hands. No, they don't. They never go. But even if you switch, even if you switch, now you're going to mess up the other side of the neck. So that's the problem with the barbell it allows you to compensate because the weight is centralized to instead of moving the weights you move yourself in order to compensate for and so instead of having

something that changes and so you can place it the way you want you're gonna place yourself around the barbell and that leads to a lot of problems and so that mixed grip on the deadlift just wrecks people back and shoulders I've seen it wreck people's shoulders so often. So just don't go for that max because I'm not going to be able to get as much. No use straps use straps we can work your grip on the farmers walk just use straps pull with a double overhand then we'll work your grip on the on the farmers walk after it's right? You don't need, you're not doing this to work on your grip. You're just pulling. No, but you know what I mean? Like the idea was just to pull, then double overhand straps,

and then let's work on your grip on the side. Good question, Monica. Anybody else? Okay. Eric Wallach? Eric? To piggyback off what she said, would it be beneficial to alternate every so often doing under-aimed grip? You'll pop your biceps if you do that.

You can't do it, yeah. You can't pull like this. It will wreck your biceps. You'll let or you'll pop your elbows. You can't do it. Yeah. You can't pull like this. It will wreck your biceps. Your lat or your pop, your elbows, you can't do it. This is not a good position to lift.

Like unless you're under a tire and everything, but it's always, try to lift a tire like this. Like the amount of stress on your grip is tremendous. There's no way

you could hold on a bar like this. No way. And doing this, all you're doing is making sure you mess up both sides of your neck. Instead of one. So it's longer, but it's going to happen both sides.

You're better off to use double overhand and straps. That's what all strongmen do, by the way. Have you noticed? All the strongmen, they use straps and double overhand all the time. Because they know their bicep won't survive otherwise. They all pull over 1,000 pounds, so they must be doing something right. You know what I mean?

If they don't have a problem with straps, maybe we shouldn't have either. I don't think it's cheating. Let's put it this way. When you lift 1,000 pounds or 500 kilos, 480 whole, 1,100 pounds, yeah, straps are okay. It's all good.

It's all good. Anyone else? Fellas in the middle here. I don't know what you guys are going to do, but I've noticed a few things that you talked about that might have been different than what we think we should be doing. Yes, I do that. On 30 seconds or so, what do you teach that's maybe different

from what I would have normally thought was the right way to do things? Maybe I'll ask the question. I'm going to ask the question same but slightly different. I think what people are asking is what is the difference between strong fit and cross fit? Are they the same thing? What is going on? First of all, we have to understand crossFit is not barbell and pull-ups. That was not the point. The point of Grassman, if you have to see the early workouts, the reason he used barbells and dumbbells because that's all he had at his gym.

But trust me, if he was today and he had more money, he'd be using a lot, he'd be using strongman instruments. The idea was that the principle were basically built for health to put people into different planes of movement and make them do the most functional training possible. As opposed to, let's say, the global gym where you just do machines and stuff like that. That was really the idea.

I am not a method. StrongFit is not a method. StrongFit is not going to replace CrossFit. CrossFit has turned into a method. which means there was a set of principles. And from there, they derived a system in place that uses a lot of the thrusters and all the stuff with very specific workouts. And they became a method. Me, I have no interest of doing that. That's not what I do. Me, what I have is I have certain principles that define how movement should be done by human beings based on how evolution got us here and how the nervous system works and all that stuff.

So what I do basically is I'm trying to make movement more, to make people move better. And that can be used for CrossFit or football or any sport you want to do or health in general or not messing up your back every time you pick up the keys or your kids. That's what I do. So I'm not here to tell people what to do or health in general or not messing up your back every time you pick up the keys or your kids right that's what i do so i'm not here to tell people what to do i'm here to tell them how to do it and they can use those principles and apply them to whatever they want crossfit included i will never replace crossfit i'm trying to make it better by by showing people how to move better how to do things correctly so that they can push themselves further and harder and do whatever is it that they want to do without breaking, right? Because we have to have that conversation about the way CrossFit has been built in the last few years that is hurting people so much. The shoulders, the lower back, the stuff like that. There's a high percentage

of injuries in CrossFit we have to be able to talk about. I'm the biggest defender of CrossFit out there, but we have to be able to say there are certain issues, right? So what I want to do is talk about the issues to say, okay, but if we move a certain way, we can do the same amount of work, but just not break. That sounds like a better idea. So again, it will never be about what to do. It'll always be about how to do it. So I'm not going to tell you to change CrossFit. I'm just going to tell you how to do it so you don't break while doing it right it was the entire debate about external torque on the snatch right but they say for many years and active shoulders and all that stuff and i was like it's a very simple question is like you've seen all the movement overhead in nature you have even like pressing you have uh punching throwing swimming, pushing the car and everything.

Do you notice that all those tensions go toward internal torque? The tension is being applied toward the center of the body, right? You wouldn't push a car like this, right? You're pushing this way. You're punching this way. Outside of Chinese Kung Fu movies, you know what I mean? Like we're punching inside. All right.

So all the movements where you press are going toward internal torque. So are we saying the snatch is the one movement that is external torque, where all the other ones are internal torque? What about a push press? You go internal torque on top, right? You don't go on top. You go like this. You notice?

So a push press is internal torque, but a snatch is external torque. So I'm like, so when do you switch? What happens when you switch? I mean, there's going to be a dead spot. So you're saying evolution messed up and created a dead spot overhead where the bar is going to fall, if I put my hands there. Or, we misunderstood from the beginning what tension overhead was supposed to be, and it happens to be internal talk and not external talk. And that's how the whole debate started. By the way, all the Chinese do internal talk on the snatch, and they're okay at it.

They have a few guys that snatch okay, I would say. Right? And they all do internal talk. So, that was like, guys, this is wrong. So, I'm not saying don't snatch. My point was, don guys, this is wrong. So I'm not saying don't snatch. My point was, don't snatch an external torque. Snatch an internal torque, and then we can snatch, but without breaking. So it was never about changing CrossFit. It was always about making it better. So I am not a method. I'm a set of principles that can be applied to anything,

including CrossFit. Because I do think CrossFit has changed training for women forever. And so I want to make sure it continues. Right? But there are certain issues with the way we've been told how things work that is just not true. It's the same thing. We have the same issue with the nervous system with a number of things where the model, the present model, is based on description instead of function. And it's not working. So we need to fix it. And so that's basically what I've been going. I was like, okay, but what you're telling me is based on

description. I want to do it based on function. And you have to work with athletes, correct? Some of the games athletes. Oh, a lot of them. The question was, Monica was asking, Julian, you... Yes, I've trained so many. I got Christian Holti, Lauren Fisher, I got I don't know if I can give you the entire list, Carrie Pierce lately. I can go on and on and on and on like this. It's alright. It's alright. But that's not my best coaching job. My best coaching job I've been a friend of mine named Michael Mann who came to me at 60 where he had never trained a day in his life and i got him to 65 uh doing a uh sandbag squat at 82 kilos after lapping it so 185 pound

sandbag squat uh he time out raise your hand if you can do that yeah 180 yeah there you go he can do 13 strict pull-ups and 30 push-ups now. That has been my best coaching job. So the point is, if it's a set of principles, it works the same way for Michael Mann or for Lorraine Fisher. That means the principle has to apply to both. Otherwise, it's a method. If you apply things that can only be done by top athletes,

it becomes a method, not a principle. Right? And again, going back to CrossFit, that's what Glassman wanted. If you watched the early video, he wanted something that is applicable to everybody. So me, instead of modifying the weights, making people train with the PVC, I'm going to modify the skill. Right? Which means, instead of making you snatch snatch avec une pipe PVC, ce qui est très délicat, je vais essayer de comprendre la fonction du snatch, qui est une extension triple agressive. D'accord? Donc si vous ne pouvez pas snatcher, quelle est une extension triple agressive que je peux vous faire? Je prends une sac à sable et je la mets en avant. J'ai-je réussi une extension triple agressive? Oui, j'ai réussi.

Mais je l'ai fait sans vous faire dégager les épaules, parce que vous n'avez pas à vous attraper, vous n'avez pas à faire tout ça. an aggressive triple extension. Yes, I did. But I did it without breaking your shoulders because then you don't have to catch, you don't have to do all that stuff. So by lowering the skill, I was able to keep the stimulus going but without having to reduce the weight. So that to me was a better way of doing it. Same idea. Different application in that sense.

So the idea that Olympic weightlifting is the only way to get strong is ridiculous. Who are the strongest people in the world right now, you would say? Because if I look at pure strength, I would go with strongmen. They have 10 of the top deadlifts in the world right now. Guys can press, strict press up to 440 for reps. Like, I don't see anybody stronger than them right now.

And if you look, they use the barbell about 10% of their training. They use massive dumbbells, sandbags, stones, yoke carries. That's basically farming, by the way. This is like Viking work that we've been doing for the last 5,000 years. The barbell has been around for 150. It's just, this is more functional. Like, we can go at it any which way you want. The barbell is more functional like we can go at it any which way you want the barbell is not functional just because it's been applied like crazy in the last 40 years really since

bodybuilding came about because it was cheaper for gyms to have a barbell does not make it the best way to train and all my top game athletes end up doing a lot more work on dumbbells and odd objects than you would think it's that's a that's a smokescreen. By the way have you seen how many barbell workout there was at regionals last year? Zero. Zero. What about the open? Two out of five. Two out of five. All right so that means in the last 20 workouts we had 30 percent maybe of barbell workouts. I would say less than, so for top athletes, right? I would say 80% were dumbbells, 70 to 80%.

So that means if you want to prepare for CrossFit, the sport, you would do 70% of your workouts with dumbbells. Is that what you guys are doing now? Okay, so that means if, because we've been all over the world. Now, I see gyms that do 80% of their workout based on barbell. What are you getting ready for? Because it's not the Open. It's not CrossFit the sport, because CrossFit, the Open has only 20%.

So what are you getting ready for then? Because it's not CrossFit anymore. It's a barbell program. It's a barbell program, but because, because I still don't get a good answer on that one. Because CrossFit doesn't even use it that much anymore. So then why are we still stuck on the barbell? Because it's sexy on Instagram, probably. Sexy on Instagram, is that what you said?

Is there any other reason than to say, look at what I do? Power clean, yeah. It doesn't matter. I just take ibuprofen and just don't put that part on Instagram. It's all good. Right? I wake up the next day, I'm like, Jesus Christ. It's all good.

Nobody sees that on Instagram. It's perfect. We have to be realistic, right, with what we do. How long does it take to become strong or fit? Years, right? So if you break every six weeks 12 weeks how strong are you not very so we calculated that uh on average our top lifters were missing 10 to 15 percent of their volume of training per year because of injuries you're like

you can't snatch that day because your shoulder won't let you? 10% to 50% of the program, they missed because of that. So you want to up your volume by 10%, don't get hurt. Easiest way to up your volume, don't get hurt. Yeah? I got a question. Yeah? Thank you, Tyler. You talk about getting hurt.

I think that's something that now you're showing me the assessments that you, Tyler. You talk about being heard. I think that's something that now showing me the assessments that you guys do. What's like somebody you've assessed before and really helped them improve? What's your greatest assessment that you've ever done? No, you're not my greatest assessment, Hunter. I know you're trying, but my proudest job as a coach was Michael Mann because of where he started. He's a guy who could not squat to that box without falling. You know, like people, they come down and they go and then back up and everything. And three and a half years later, he's squatting the 80 kilos and back.

That was the greatest job I did. and three and a half years later, he's squatting the 80 kilos on back. That was the greatest job I did. The toughest assessment that I had was a OG CrossFit lady. She's 5'11". She's jacked. She weighs 180 pounds.

She's a beautiful woman. She's a horse, man. I seen her. She had a 7mm L5 this way, 7mm L4 that one, and S1 3mm that way. The only thing she could do is run and airdyne. Still jacked, I don't know how.

That's how talented she was. She had her back so bad. From long story short, she was told to front squat in the Olympic weightlifting with very narrow stance, which was not correct for her hip structure. So she opened her feet a bit to do that and she ended up ruining her labrum and she ended up putting an undue pressure

on the SI joint and everything started to turn. She developed a lot of imbalance between the left and the right and so everything started to turn, but her back was so strong, the stress didn't go on the neck or the upper back, so it ended up in the lower back and everything went like this.

And she did it over years because she's so tough. And she was ruined when I got her. She had a torn labrum on the hip. So she can't squat. So I made her do a sandbag squat, 60 pounds. She went down that much and started crying. I was like, all right, we're not going to do this anymore. Don't worry.

And so I made her do a lot of sandbag carries and stuff like that. And it took me, I know what happened now, but it took me about six months. But six months later, she could do deficit deadlifts with 240. And she actually squatted, she squatted a 150 pound, 160 pound sandbag. And she did it with, I think, 135 pound bar, which was the win. Right. That was my greatest job as fixing someone. She'll never squat heavy again.

If I'm not there, she's not squatting, by the way. So now she's just stopped squatting. I could probably get her to a decent squat, but nothing past that because it was so much damage. And the hip label, she doesn't want to to fix anyway but that was my toughest assessment and that came out of you know who did that to her we did as a community of coaches we did it because we forced her into a squat with a barbell in a foot position that was incorrect for her but she was told that's the way to do it and so she was forced in it and then she saw tough she did it again and again and again snatch clean and jerk kept forcing kept getting

pain and then she had spent before she saw me she had spent three to five years in physios and stuff like that thousands of dollars where they made her do like the baby position all the bullshit stuff you could think of and he got worse every single year you have to understand people see me at the end first they see the doctor then me at the end. First they see the doctor, then they see the physio, then they see the chiropractor, then they see the massage therapist, then the acupuncture, then the voodoo guy, then the snake oil, and then

there's me. Right? So like literally I go after everybody. They go to the guy with the magnet, she saw that one too. I was literally the last person before she jumped. Right? Or she would do surgery. No, she would stop training.

She was ready to quit. Because I don't know if you ever dealt with people that are in pain often, continuously in her case, is it takes something away from them. There's a veil right there that it just takes part of their humanity away. Right? And my greatest job was that because one day after about four or five months we trained and we trained hard and she looked at me and she had that glitter in her eye that spark was back because she fucking killed it and she looked at me and she had that smile

on her face where the spark was back she was back like this and that was the coolest moment because she was back so that was my coolest moment as a coach. That's why I do it. But on the back end, we did that by misunderstanding movement and by forcing people into improper movement pattern, in her case, her, we did it to her. That should not happen. We can do better.

As a human race, we can do a lot better than this. And I see about half of the injuries are results That should not happen. We can do better. As a human race, we can do a lot better than this. And I see about half of the injuries are results from improper movement pattern that were taught. He's one of them. Hunter came to see me when he was 19 because we taught him incorrectly. And here he goes, third place at nationals in Olympic weightlifting, and he can't move because his back is so fucked up. So he was on his way exactly to do what she did. And so I had to come and go to him and say,

this is not the proper way to move, which is an interesting conversation, especially at 19, right? He was actually mature enough to listen, but usually, I remember the way I was at 19, I would not have listened. But it basically comes down to

we misunderstand function. We are so stuck with words and description that we all have been taught to move a certain way, especially with a barbell that is incorrect. And so we wreck people and we are doing it as coaches. That's just the bottom line. So I was like, all right, then I'll try to fix it. Okay. I have the same problem as the person you were talking about. My spine is curved at S1. I don't have a disc between L4 and L5.

It's strong to me. Is that for me? Yes. That's why it was designed for. Ask Natalie. She'll help you. Do you modify it? You don't modify principles.

They apply to anything. You modify the application, not the principle. I don't teach the application in that much as I teach the principles. Once people understand the principles and they master the idea, then they'll find ways to make it work. That's up to Natalie to do that.

So you're saying no reconstruction? I'm saying we should try to do without. Because reconstruction, once you're in that, you're never leaving it. Like I know how this works. I've never met a person that did an L5 surgery that was better five years later. Not one. They all ended up with the same issues.

Again, I haven't met one person who got better over surgery. So you will end up in the same problem, just a few. I mean, now you have fused discs, which makes it far harder. So I would give it a shot of making your body strong to hold the spine together instead of relying on wood or metal in that case. So I was told I shouldn't lift anything heavier than anything heavy. I'm sure you've been told that. After you? No.

Bullshit. That was at your research. I'm sure it was. So if anything, so if your grandkids have a problem, you're not going to lift them then. Because your back is going to break. Like are we dealing with life at some point or so we stop everything? How is stopping to live going to fix the problem? People that are very depressed and we tell them, stay at home, don't face any problems. You'll feel a lot better. So go in a panic room and never leave. Don't watch TV because that's stressful,

right? Go in a panic room and never leave the place. You'll feel a lot better. That's people when they don't know, instead of saying, I don't know, they blame you for it, and they say, just don't do anything. I don't know how when not doing anything has ever solved a problem. So there are ways to get better, at least. Maybe not fixed, but better, that's for sure.

I'm sure that wasn't anywhere close to the most intense workout to put people through, but I was feeling pretty gnarly after the end of the rest of it. Yeah, no, it's pretty gnarly, yeah. How often do you do that intense workout? It depends, but like, if I, we're talking about murdering people on the sled once a week. You can do twice, after that you're going to start, it's going to be very hard to generate the intensity.

You have to understand, the point is not to push the sled. The point is to push you to the limit. I don't care what you use to do that, but that's not the sled. If you push that sled there and back halfway, like, you know, like you can fake it as much as you want. Like I won't be in the back. I'll be in the back doing, what are you doing? But if you keep faking it, I'll be like, all right. But the only person you're cheating is yourself, right? So it's not about pushing the sled it's about finding an implement that you can push to the max without hurting yourself the sled happens to fit the the idea very well but if you can find something else have you do an airdyne workout where you die

it's every time I touch an air but that works really really. I like the sled better because on a near dine, I can't win. I go 55 car in 60 seconds. I get off the thing and that fucking thing hasn't moved. It breaks me. I look at it and it's going, eh, eh, eh, eh, like he's teasing me and I'm like, really? Like I want to break the thing, but he hasn't moved. I haven't changed anything. The sled, there was weight.

I pushed it. I came back. I get that. I'm a simple guy. I like it. There's a sled, there was weight. I pushed it. I came back. I get that. I'm a simple guy. I like it. There's a rope. I pull it. It was there.

It's here. There's weight. I'm simple. That just makes me inside. I'm like, all right. I got that one. I'm cool. But it's the same idea on an airdyne.

The point is how far can you push yourself? Do you ever wonder how far you can go without getting an aneurysm? Are you ever wondering if you can push hard enough on the sled that you will have a heart attack? Because I try. Because I wonder about that all the time. And I'm like, let's see if I can give myself an aneurysm. Like literally, I tried once or twice. I blacked out once.

I took a 10-minute power nap on the parking lot with my face like this going, what just happened? I'm not sure because I don't remember. But I know I looked at the gym going, that's really far. And then I went on one knee. And then this kind of a fuzzy period of 10 minutes. And I'm going like, that was good. So that's the thing is, do you ever wonder? I do.

And so I'm like, all right, I'm going to take that sled. I'm going to go there and back, and let's see if the sled is going to make me stop or not. Because you have no reason to stop on a sled. What's stopping you from taking two more steps? You being a bitch. But that's about it. You can't do that all the time. It's impossible.

This is something that I do once a week because it's going to require you to go at it with a very, very specific mindset. The rest of the week we're gonna apply the principles of moving correctly and pushing the intensity at a good level, but not to that blackout level. But once in a while it should be done. The body needs intensity, we are built for violence,

at least a certain part of us is built for that, and it needs to be pushed periodically. Maybe, I like every once a week, I can be able two weeks. You can try twice a week, you won't survive three. I can tell you that right now. Even two is hard.

But the point is that you have to push the machine once in a while. For biological and physical reasons, I don't have the time to get into. But you have to, for your mind alone, you have to push once in a while. And you're not going to do it with 10 sets, so you're going to do it with one.

You're going to do it until you can't push that sled anymore, and you're going to give me 10 more meters. And then I'll be behind you with a stick, making sure you don't stop. So, hold on. So, Julian, as a host, you're doing all the talking, which is good, because you're way more important than I am. So, anyhow, what I'm hearing, though, is intensity is the key. And pushing a sled is a safe way to hit that intensity rather than something super technical.

Do you remember how your legs felt when you finished? Right? All right. Do you feel your knees right now? Do you feel your knees right now do you feel anything okay imagine if i had done a set of squats and i'd push your legs to that level how do you think you feel right now your back would be kind of beat up your knees so imagine weeks after weeks after weeks i would ask you to do a set of squats and do that kind of damage to your legs what do you think your back and your knees would say at least you would take away one or two days of training a week just to recover from that,

which I don't have to do because I use a sled. So which one is better? Exactly. Because it beats you up less. The barbell beats you up. So there's a moment where it's going to beat you up to the wall where you're going to get hurt. So now you're going to have to back off. So eventually you're going to back off the intensity with a barbell because you just get beat up to the wall, we're going to get hurt, so now you're going to have to back off. So eventually you're going to back off the intensity with a barbell because you just get beat up. So now since you're feeling guilty and you feel you don't have it done enough, you're going to do more.

But more is not better. Better is better. So I need you to push harder, not to do more. What is the definition of CrossFit again? High intensity. If you look at what Greg Glassman said, he literally said, don't do more, do a greater intensity. The original was-

A hundred words of, yep. Yep. Well, even when he was talking about doing a workout, if it was 30 reps, you shouldn't even finish 30 reps. The idea of the Crossfit workouts was you die at 28. You black out at 28. You should not finish a CrossFit workout. That's a long time ago.

Now, basically, everybody wants to do five because it's never enough. So now they do one workout of 30 and then they grace and they go like, is that it? Yeah, I'm sure. Is that it? Okay, so now I want to do front for a warm-up and then I'm going to do Murph for my assistance work.

And then... Did he say, did'm going to do Murph for my assistance work. Did I hear that? Murph for assistance? Actually, you guys think I'm joking? This is part of Rudy's programming. This is Misfit, where they use front at 80% as a warm-up and Murph as assistance work at the end. I'm not kidding. That was part of a workout. Yeah, you guys have no idea the volume. But this is what now we're facing. We're facing a world where intensity is gone and people just do more and

more and more and more. So we're back to the global gym. Five sets of 15. Bold out of your mind. And we are turning CrossFit which was one workout a day, usually under 12 minutes, where you murder yourself to, I can do five workouts a day and I'm

back at the factory. Jesus Christ. So what am I going to cook tonight? Oh, I feel do five workouts a day and I'm, yeah, I'm back at the factory. Jesus Christ. So what am I going to cook tonight? Oh, I feel like pasta right now. Right. And we're back to that where it's boring as hell because you're not pushing the intensity. So I want to, um, does anybody have, because I have one last question because I want to respect everyone's time and wrap this up, but what do you have, Lise? No, I was just going to ask, so what is the benefit or is there a benefit for men versus women or just because we're anatomically, I don't know. Somewhat differently. Yeah. Is there a benefit for a woman, athlete or non-athlete?

Yeah, there are some physiological differences, but they're not that big. The HPSDI is not that much of a difference there. The difference is more toward the nervous system, and it's more how to coax intensity out of women, honestly. It's not the workout. It's how you explain the workout. So what do I mean by that? You know the story. always the same you have a dragon right the night comes he has to say the dragon get the girl guys

love that and simple there's a goal you don't say the rag and get the girl I got it ladies are like wait what's the color of the dragon is it a male or female so how long has it been there does Does he know the princess? Is there a way to go to the princess without killing the dragon? So, and then the girl guys are like, just fucking say the dragon, man. It's like, no, but I need to know because, you know, they've been there for so long. Guys are like this. So that's built in. You ladies need a process. A process needs to be explained. For example, I said max reps. I love to do, as to say that to max reps, because I know when I say that to women, they have a number in mind.

Like if I say max rep, you all thought 22. That's what I'm going to do. I don't care if I do 25, I'm going to stop at 22. So I say max reps and I have ladies doing the squats and at 20, they drop it and they go like, what'd you do for oh i thought 20 but you had 10 more yeah but i thought 20 all right um and then we can go on like this because the point was she was going to win you ladies that's why the first set never counts because you're not sure of the weight so you're gonna make sure you go as light enough to win and so on that first set you're gonna give me a win no matter what guys they went too heavy so they're dying in the back already because i was way too heavy for them anyway so and then they take 10 minutes to recover but by then you guys have done three sets because like i'm gonna win this now right so there's a

more a way to conceptualize the workout if i don't explain the workout with a process correctly you will end up in the middle of the workout going, I don't get it. What am I supposed to do next? And now, hey girl, and then now you start talking and the workout is gone, right? It's because there's no process. You're not understanding what the point is. Women ask a lot of questions, right? You need to give a seminar to how to do a push-up to a set of ladies before the workout. That's because you need me to explain what the win for the workout is. If you don't understand the win, you're not going to push. You're not going to push, you're going to intensity, right? I've tried to do that with guys.

Guys who say, we'll pull and push-ups, they're already gone. It's like, I haven't said what the workout is, but they're already way too much weight, so they're all dying. And so what you do with guys is you give the seminar after they fuck up. Right? You always have to let men. Ladies have been married. You know that. You have to let the guy fuck up first. And then you explain what you want.

And it works a lot better. With you ladies, I have to explain what you should get first. And then you're going to give me exactly that. Right? So more than a physiological difference is that. Is how am I going to get the best workout out of you? Because if I don't have intensity, I can't get you to progress. So that means that literally a perfect class is, I'll explain to ladies before and to the guys after. When the class is over, I can go to a guy and say, see, I told you not to do that.

They go like, yeah, of course, you're right. Yeah, I'll listen next time. And so over time, I'm going to win this. Whereas ladies, I'm going to give you a seminar on how I want the not to do that. They go like, yeah, of course, you're right. Yeah, I'll listen next time. And so over time, I'm going to win this. Whereas ladies, I'm going to give you a seminar on how I want the workout to go. The intensity is going to be much higher. There's going to be a lot less talking. So everybody's winning, especially the guys,

because now they don't have to go like, what? Oh, nobody's talking. That's awesome. So there's a whole way to do this, but it has more to do with the nervous system than it does to physiological differences. At the end, I say when men, women, it's not exactly true. It's masculine-feminine energy. I've seen a lot of men that need more process, way more than women that train toward the masculine energy,

but you get the idea, right? So it's more that. It's how do I get the intensity out of you? And there's a way to approach a workout that's different for men and women, very, very different in that sense. And what I want out of the workout is maximum intensity, no matter what the workout is. That doesn't mean a two-minute workout. It can be a 20-minute arm wrap. But I want the maximum intensity out of that 20-minute arm wrap.

With you ladies, I'm going to have to explain exactly what the color of the dragon is. Because, guys, all I have to give them is a goal. Go kill yourself. I got it, coach! And then, yeah, and then, you know, like, too heavy and all that shit. And then by session number six, they go, so, how much weight should I use? And now we can start talking.

I mean, whereas you ladies will ask right away. You're smarter, that's why you live longer. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we do random shit so we come up with cool stuff too. So, whatever. It works too. I mean, it's just you have to understand the strength and weaknesses on both, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah. But we do random shit, so we come up with cool stuff, too. So whatever. It works, too. I mean, it's just you have to understand the strengths and weaknesses on both. I mean, yeah. So it's more that. I'm going to end with one question.

If you guys want to talk to Julian after this, I just want to kind of wrap this up and respect everyone's time. But you know a little bit of my story on kind of been in CrossFit for, you know, affiliate for 11 years and loved it. Still love it. Um, but yet, uh, a few years ago, I just felt this little burden of something isn't right with what I'm doing. And I couldn't find what was off kilter, um, in terms of the way that CrossFit was going. was off kilter in terms of the way that CrossFit was going. And you have now established yourself as a leader in the fitness world. I believe so. I think a lot of people out here would say that, but what would you say to people like, and I'm not wanting a little pat on the back or a push, but pioneers, there's a lot of gym owners that have been in the game like me. And you've talked to other owners that are feeling the same thing that I was feeling.

They're all saying what you said. So. You had the balls to do it. That's the difference. But they're all saying it. And I say this because a lot of people around here kind of know what this gym has. Well, maybe not. I mean, some of these folks are new,

but what this gym has taken a hit out in the St. Louis metro area, everybody knows that CrossFit Valley Park is taking on strong fit principles, yet we're still a CrossFit gym. And people seem to think that that's not true. Yeah, because they think the two are not compatible, which is not true. That's because it's my fault because I don't explain StrongFit enough. And so I don't explain that it's not to be a method. The name alone is probably wrong.

I should not have called it StrongFit. I should have, because then it gives the idea that it's something adjacent to CrossFit instead of something that can complement it. So it's up to me to explain to people better that the point of StrongFit is not to replace CrossFit, it's to make it better. StrongFit was probably not the best name in that sense where it's just a set of principles it's not a method in itself but the conversation with you and i had i had with every single gym owner that i've been to i've been into 26 countries now i think i've been doing this for two years on a go to somewhere else every two weeks and it's the same problem every time and

so you had the balls to run with it and at some point say i need to change it before it closes me down because how many people think everything is going well but owners are getting burned out because they go to their gym and they see people hurting themselves constantly leaving going like like this or the shoulder or adrenal fatigue and everything which which is turning into a real problem. And that is not why you started to open a gym. He started the gym to help people, to make them healthier and everything. And now you're walking and you see people that are sacrificing form to go faster, to do Randy, to stuff like that. They wreck their shoulder,

they wreck their back. But we're getting to a point where people don't even care anymore. Like they wreck their back and they go, I don't i want to snatch but i'm like but you train twice a week you're a lawyer you work and you work 100 hours a week you train two hours a week and you don't care if you're going to hurt your shoulder but you're going to snatch anyway you don't need a coach you need a shrink i'm sorry but it's it's Like, why would you possibly want to do that? Imagine as an owner, you come in and you see people willing to sacrifice. This is compulsion behavior. So now, we used to have people punishing themselves with food.

Now they punish themselves with exercise. It's a compulsive behavior. It's very unhealthy, right? And that is not why Brendan started his gym. He wanted to make people healthier, not worse. And so there's an entire conversation like that. And by the way, the turnaround rate of CrossFit right now is in the high 70%. Gym closing down versus new opening.

It's very, very high because people come in, they get very excited. They want their first muscle-up before they have a pull-up. And then they hurt their shoulders. And within two years years they start quitting. They quit and then they go, either they blame the coach or whatever so they go to the next CrossFit, get hurt again and then quit and then go back to the global gym or stuff like that. And that's a shame because CrossFit has changed the way we train women forever.

There is so much good that came out of CrossFit. Women are jacked now. They have muscle. They want to get bigger, stronger. They want to move better. They don't have to bless themselves with food anymore. CrossFit has done so much for women. It has changed the way women look at themselves, which I didn't think was possible.

I remember when I had women coming to me and saying, I would train like you, but I just don't want to look like you. I was like, I'm a 105 kilo guy with a beard. I hope you don't want to look like me. I mean like I'm a 105 kilo guy with a beard. I hope you don't want to look like me. I mean I'm good-looking but maybe not as a woman. But now I got women like that tiny Chinese women who came and say like I want to be jacked. I want to gain 10 kilos of muscle. I want to look like I was like alright. That's where were you when I grew up. Now I mean like and so CrossFit has changed all that but if if we keep going, pushing the ship in that direction,

pretending there is no problem, we're going to end up basically sinking the ship because there are certain issues that need to be addressed. The adrenal fatigue, the shoulder problem, the back problem, all those need to be addressed. And so that means certain principles have to be applied. That seems that the one I've been using are working. And so the point is not to take the barbell away.

The point is to make, so I don't want to take the barbell away and change the way you see CrossFit. What I want is I want to add stuff to it. There are so many training sessions you do in a week. So if I want to add stuff to those sessions, that means some of the barbell is going to be away. But that's, again, I'm not trying to replace it. I just want to add to it.

If you have barbell twice a week, it's great. But we need also the sandbag. We need also the rope poles. We need also the sled. We need to go back to the idea of CrossFit as a training system

before CrossFit became a sport. Because a sport is not the same thing as a training system. Imagine if you want to learn to just get in shape, and I'm going to teach you, I'm going to train you to go, I'm going to say, go do a UFC fight. That's going to train you how to be,

it's going to train you to run in a circle really fast, but it's not going to get you in shape or fit or anything, right? You just get your ass beat down by some really skilled and strong guy, but it's not basically, that's not learning a certain, you know what I mean? or anything, right? You just get your ass beat down by some really skilled and strong guy. But it's not basically, that's not learning a certain, you know what I mean? There's an entire concept in there that was that CrossFit was a training system

that basically was that we could change to fit anybody to get healthier. This is what Greg Glassman said, not me. That is not my definition of CrossFit. That's what Greg Glassman said. I think he knows what CrossFit is. So just for y'all, some of you might not know, Greg Glassman is the founder of CrossFit. God, I hope you guys know that. Yeah. Raise your hand if you did know that. Yeah. I did, right? Okay, no shit. Right. I mean, you did it. Who's who's running crossfit now somebody say it what's the name

dave castro right actually he's not but he's only running the crossfit games yeah but but that that tells you no but that tells you exactly that's the problem fundamentally that's the problem glay glassman went away six years ago about and since then what has been in front has been the crossfit games and so now we're presenting this as this is the goal this was never the goal i trained them i can tell you very very few people can do it i can tell you who walks in the door if they're going to be a crossfit games athletes or not if it's a woman is she crazy enough right if you're not stressed out of your mind you'll never make it i can tell you that right now and so but you have to understand who

walks in can he leverage i know as you guys know but he was a very famous crossfitters out of california for years right he plays all the way up to fifth i think he walks in a crossfit gym and he said uh that's shit i can do all that really well and so his coach is like oh really okay i'm gonna make you do that workout uh that we like it's called friend and kenny bridge doesn't know what he's like all right he's like say so you're gonna workout that we like. It's called Fran. And Kenny LeBridge doesn't know what it is. He's like, oh, all right. He's like, say, so you're going to do thrusters? He's like, oh, that's easy. Pull-ups.

He's like, I don't do keeping pull-ups. He's like, but I can do them strict. I was like, all right. So it's 21.59. He's like, yeah, no problem. So they put the bar, and he's like, what is that, 95 pounds? And no, that's too light. I want to do with 135.

So you know the dude is like, oh, that's going to be so good. So Kenny LeBridge comes in, and he's going to do Fran with 135. So, you know, the dude is like, oh, that's going to be so good. So Kenny Leverage comes in and he's going to do Fran with 135 barbell and strict pull-ups. Everybody's coming going like, that rugby guy, he's going to die. It's going to be so good. So everybody comes and Kenny Leverage goes. Guess what his time was? Huh? 322.

322. 322. First day in the CrossFit gym they were like yeah you're right okay that one Valérie reached in an hour a day 5 days a week that's it and she finished third twice at the CrossFit gym top 5 4 times

I made her do shit where i was i felt bad and she would come back the next day going like that was fun really so i went like do that and she would just recover and come back for more why i don't't know. But she could do it. Nobody else can do it. I didn't let her train when guys were in my gym because they felt so bad. The only guy I had training with Val was Richard because everybody else was

like, I'm leaving the gym. I'm the guy who quit actually because he saw the muscle up. He was like, you didn't teach me that. I was like, yeah, no shit. And he felt so bad they are just born for CrossFit by the way they can't do any other sport all of them have failed at their sports of choice all of them and then but if CrossFit was the thing right Valerie did nothing between 16 to 20 she was a

gymnast very high level but could not compete. But she found CrossFit. And she was gone. They're all like that. They're born for CrossFit. It's a pipe dream to think you're going to make it. You're not going to make it to regionals. I got news.

Not going to happen. But not you. Just in general. Like, people, they're like, yeah, dude, You finished 1653rd in your region in the Open. You're not making it. I'm just telling you right now. So you did the Open three times in a row for what exactly? Explain to me why you really did that workout three times.

I don't get it, right? But that's the conversation. This is turning into a compulsion. And that will make people leave the gym, not stay. This is not the correct way. We have to acknowledge the fact that there's a problem. I love the open. Do the workout once, have fun with the community,

do a Friday night light, have fun, go home. Let it go. You're not making it. Go away. Right? You can't do that movement? Scale it. It's all good. Like whether you make the 533rd on the scale division or the RX,

it's the same shit. Nobody cares. Like if she takes you six pages to find yourself on that, it's no good. I mean, it's the same thing. It's all good. And I say that with all the love in my heart. I love you all, but if you're anything past page 12, don't redo the workout.

You know what I mean? Yeah, you included. Don't redo the workout. What are you trying to do else? And then, by the way, how long does it take you to recover from the workout? A week? And now you're going to redo that shit. That means it takes people two months to recover from the open.

I've seen people stressed out of their mind doing the open. I'm like you're not being deployed to Afghanistan anytime soon. So I'm not understanding why you have so much stress coming into the open. It is a workout right? Right. So you do as many reps as you as you want. Right. And it can take you as long as you want. Yeah. And you're stressed out for what again? I don't get it. Right. So it can take you as long as you want. Yeah. And you're stressed out for what again? I don't get it. Right? So we have to stop with this.

This is not healthy. Is that how you would want your daughter to behave? Tell me that's not compulsion behavior. Right? Do you want her to do like this with food as well? Or just exercise? All right? This is a conversation we need to have.

But she, mine is not doing that shit. So she does crossfit. She does 18.4 last off once. I will never let her go to have. But mine is not doing that shit. So she does CrossFit. She does 18.4 last off once. I will never let her go to this. This is dark behavior. I am not going to help people do that shit. You want to have a compulsion behavior

towards things in life? Go knock yourself out. I will not help you. And so we have to be able to talk about this. And it is a problem. And that's the conversation with the barbell is that, yes, but I need to power clean. I'm like, for what? Instagram or is it Facebook? Which one? Because there's two reasons to power clean. It's either Instagram or Facebook. Just tell me which one fits you better. book it is both obviously both right i can't have a person explain to me why the barbell matters so much to this day i don't they're like functional i'm like really let's go over the list or whatever i can't get them so because the i've seen that athlete that does it i'm like yeah but you didn't see behind the scenes because i trained them so i can tell you they don't do it either not nearly

as much as you think right they don't pr every week and you don't see uh Lauren Fisher at 23 is broken already that ankle is messed up and so is the shoulder and I'm in the back trying to fix it and you don't see any of that you don't see them doing a lot of pull downs at the gym you don't see them doing the rope pulls in the back because it's not shiny and yet they do it twice a week because I know because I'm the one doing it in the back and but that's not what they put on Instagram now, is it? That's the problem, right? We need to have a real conversation about what we're doing because I am tired of seeing athletes that are broken

because the coaches make them do movement incorrectly. How about we tackle that issue first? The fact that we are forcing people into position and they end up hurting them. The barbell is destroying people. Not that we take it away completely, but we have to do other shit than just this. I'm the one in the back fixing, mopping up all the shit of broken shoulders and lower back and everything. I'm the one has to deal with people that are so broken that they just can't even be themselves because there's so much pain

going on between. I'm the one looking at them in the eyes when that happens. Where are all the guys that did external torque and everything? They're all gone now. But I'm in the back. I'm still the one in the back trying to fix their shoulders. So I want to stop. The day I'm out of a job is the day I'll be happy. Well, I don't have to come into a gym and see that 50% of the injuries,

and I'm being nice, are basically because we caused it as a community of coaches. That's what pisses me off. So we need to do better at movement first. And then you can knock yourself out with the open workout first, but not at the expense of your body. That is not a conversation we should be having. That is not why Greg Glassman wanted out of CrossFit. I can tell you for a fact, because he said that at all L1s, that Greg Glassman

hates the games because of that. The things he created only 10 years ago. And he hates it, he hates the games because of that. Because of what he's done to people. Well, Julian, I appreciate it. I think all these guys out here appreciate

that. Yeah. Thank you. I think all these guys out here appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you. So until next time, yeah, Julie. I'm sure next year. Thanks a bunch.

Thanks, man. Next week, we will have Matt Spickey, the ex-big figure with the Montreal Expos and the Florida Marlins. He'll be talking with us or maybe even head coach Natalie Kummer. She's looking at me right now. She's like, wait a second. I didn't know I was going to be on the show next week. Until next time. Thank you all.

Take care. You just heard the Masanomics podcast. With your ears, you're welcome. Check us out on Facebook, find us on Instagram at Masanamics and make sure you visit Masanamics.com and buy some of that sweet Masanamics gear. From your friends at Masanamics Studio, home of the world's strongest podcast, stay strong.