Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - 40 Year Sentence at 24 Years Old | Chad Marks

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

40 Year Sentence at 24 Years Old | Chad Marks

I flip it, I turn that into a quarter ounce, a quarter ounce into a half ounce. Next thing, you know, I'm buying what we call 62, two ounces and six grand. We're not seeing the bigger picture that like, yo, they're building, you know, a federal case. They're building a conspiracy. Like, I regret everything. 13 years. You almost did 20 years. How could you not regret it?

Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I'm doing a video podcast with Chad Mark. Chad wrote a book. He's got an amazing story. He also has a YouTube channel called Blood on the Wire. Blood on the Razor Wire. Sorry. And why didn't you go with blood on the concertino wire? It didn't. No. No. You do legal work. But do, is it, do you also do prison consulting like Dan Wise does? Or I do all that. But, you know, a lot of stuff that I do is litigation. Oh, okay. Where Dan's really just about trying to mitigate people's sentencing guidelines, right? Like, yeah. I mean, they give guys advice on what to do when they're going to prison. Maybe they write sentencing memorandums. I'm not sure exactly everything that they do, prepare you. I mean, those are things that I do. But a lot of stuff that I do is litigation, man. Post-conviction motions, compassionate release, clemency, stuff like that.

Right. And you were, you did what? Did you do 20? 17 years, five months, 21 days. Oh, my God. Listen, even when I hear people say, oh, I did nine years, I always think, God, you did nine. I mean, I did 13.

But even when people say nine or something, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, it's, you know, it's insane the amount of time they give you. You had 40 years. Sentenced to 40 years, yeah. Who did the, and you got, was it, was it Trump that got you, gave you clemency or what happened? So what happened was Donald Trump passed what's called the First Step Act, right? Right. And as part of that, he put some sentencing reforms in.

there. I was sentenced 10 years for the drugs, five years for the first gun, 25 years for the second. But so that your people know what I'm talking about, I got five years for a 12-gauge shotgun, 25 years for a 22 rifle on top of the 10 years for the drugs and they all had to run wild. And what they did was they passed the first step back and they eliminated that. They said, look, that's not what we meant. We meant when you get arrested, you go to federal prison with a gun, with drugs, you get five years, right? You get out. You didn't learn. This is a recidivist enhancement. So now you get the second 25. But we're going. what the government was doing for many, many years was they would let you go on, sell drugs,

do your thing, and they would just chalk up all these gun charges, right? They might bust a house. You're in the conspiracy. They don't arrest you, but they're building a case. And they know that they want to get that second 924C so that they can bang you with that second 25 years. So I got five, 25, and 10 total of 40 years. All right. Well, let's, I mean, because, you know, I think you and I could sit here and, you know,

fucking bitch and complain about. how bad the citizen guidelines are and how outrageous they are. But basically, I wanted to get into your story, like, how you actually ended up in prison and, like, where you were born, you're in New York now, right? Were you born in New York? Yeah. You know, I was born in Rochester, New York. My father was a drug addict at the age of three.

My father took off. He shot at me and my mother. We escaped. Shot at us with a shotgun. We escaped. We got away. And pretty much my mom was a single mom for a little while. She ended up meeting another guy.

He became my stepfather. When I was about 13, he pretty much left the house because there was arguments between me and him. And it was starting to get out of control where I was like, you ain't my dad. Don't tell me what to do type of thing. But today we have a good relationship. You know what I mean? Was your dad around at all? Like, did he come back around?

When I was about 13, he ended up coming back around. And that's when I started thinking, you know, I'm going to be like my dad. My dad was a, he was a drug dealer. He was a drug addict. And eventually he would overdose and die, man. And I talk about that in my book. All right. So what happened?

When did you start selling drugs or, you know, what happened? I mean, you know, were you, you know, were you a straight A student? Were you a bad kind of kid other than the, you know, other than the thing with your stepfather? Like, I mean, what kind of happened there? I was really, man, I was a kid in the neighborhood that other kids' parents wanted their kids to hang out with me when I was younger. You know, I played baseball. I was a captain of my wrestling team. I was an amateur fighter.

I was 12 as an amateur fighter. My stepfather was, you know, a small-time boxing promoter, cut man for George Foreman at one time. He was big in the boxing world. I mean, not big, like big, big guys, but he was around, you know, some big people. So anyway, when he ended up leaving the house, you know, I ended up meeting my father and me and my stepfather started beefing.

That's when the whole amateur boxing career went out the window. I wanted to hang out in the streets. never used drugs though matt never i never even smoked weed before but we were poor my mother to this day to this day bro you understand i've never drank alcohol never smoked weed never done any drugs other than xanax which was prescribed to me the first time i drank i was down there around your way i went to panama city beach florida for spring break i think i was 22 went down there had a great one of the best times of my life me and my two buddies and that was like the first time I ever drank, man.

I'm not really a drinker, don't really, don't, I mean, I have once in a while, but not my thing, man. You know, there's always an athlete, always, you know, I guess to a certain extent doing the right thing. But, you know, I grew up in the inner city, man. I grew up in the hood, I guess you could say the hood. My mom still lives there, dangerous city, just killed a cop three days ago here. There's been a murder every day since then.

So definitely a dangerous place, grew up in a dangerous place. And you know what? We were poor. My mom became that single mother. So I wanted to sell drugs. I thought that that was the way out. You know, I had a business mind. Started as a kid, I would mow grass and carry people's groceries to their car.

It was a hustler. It was inside of me. And then I seemed bigger and better opportunities that I didn't realize doing this. I'm going to end up in the position that I ended up in. Right. I mean, I can see the whole hustler thing. Every time we talk, you're enthusiastic, energetic, you know, charismatic. So, I mean, I can see that as a kid.

You wrote probably the exact same way. so so what happened so i mean you you're in after high school i mean if you're not doing drugs or anything are you your sell are you selling drugs yet i mean is anything at about 14 man that's when i started selling drugs i had a friend i talk about him in my book um his uncle was a drug addict a pimp his mother was a drug addict she was a prostitute and i'm seeing him selling bags out of these little pill bottles you know selling bags dying bags of cocaine back then and i'm like man I'm trying to make a couple dollars, bro. I'm broke. And he's like, man, he can chill with me, man.

It's what we're going to do. And it just took off from there. Eventually, unfortunately for him, he started, you know, getting high himself. You know, at the age of 16, I get arrested for a drug crime, from possession of a controlled substance in the third degree. Then I catch an assault second while I'm out on that. I end up coping out to the assault second, go to state prison. I'm 17, man. I'm in Attica, man. At 17 years old.

They close 17-year-olds with the adult. Adults? One hundred percent. They didn't care about that stuff back then. Are you a big guy? How tall are you? I'm 5.10. I've always been a big kid. I never got any bigger than 510, though, man. Right. So you're five. So, yeah, that still seems ridiculous. But anyway. Yeah, they don't care. They put kids in there. I mean, in New York, I mean, same as in Florida. I mean, you've got kids out here that are 16, 17, 18 years old killing people. They say they're in a state prison. You're 16. You're going to state prison. Sometimes the juvenile prisons are rougher than the real prisons. Like some of these kids are little kids and they're just getting brutalized in there.

Well, you know, we had a prison called Cass Sacky, right? They would try to send most of the young kids to Cass Sacky, maximum security prison, some to calm stock. But there was grown men there. They had medium security facilities, green in Washington, where they would send young kids, younger dudes. But I mean, dudes do get mixed in. Like I said, I was 17. I was in Wyoming Correctional Facility. And the kid that's like my brother, I brought him on my show before.

He was my co-defendant. We're in Wyoming together. He gets in a fight with this kid over a basketball magazine. The kid pretty much tells him he's dead on the basketball magazine. And my boy, really, he's putting it on him. But he ends up slipping. When he slips, I grabbed the kid. And they're like, oh, they jumped them.

They jumped them. So they decide to jump us. They stabbed. I got stabbed in the eye right here. Almost lost my eye. They take a piece of metal out of the fan. They sharpen it, put a little lanyard on it. It's like an ice pick, right?

That's what they called it there. And I seen the kid, the kid had hit me. And I seen him hit me, you know, he was coming to stab me. I just caught it at the last second. And he ended up stabbing me almost in my eye, man. So we got, you know, we got pretty messed up that night. But we fought back. I mean, we fought like animals.

Really, he got stabbed in the face like seven, eight times. He ended up going to Cassacki from Wyoming Correctional Facility, which is in New York across from Attica. And I went to Attica, man. They didn't care about that stuff, man. At your 17, they throw you right in with the wolves. How much time did you get on that one? I had a two to six.

So what do you do? I'm not sure what that means. It's a split bid. You do two years. You go to the parole board. The parole board can let you out or hit you. The parole board released me. They let me go.

I went back home. I was home for about a year, caught a violation, went back. For another 19 months, got out. I was out for about 14 months, and that's when I caught my federal case. So you're, you're, you're only like, what, 24, 25? I was 24 years old, man, called a federal case, got sentenced to 40 years. What was the federal case? So when I get out, you know, when I get out of state prison on the second time, I get this job at this factory.

And I'm like, man, I'm going to try to make this work. I'm doing this punch press thing. And I'm like, man, this thing ain't going to work out. I'm messing up the pieces. They fire me. So honestly, Matt, I take my paycheck. This is my story. my paycheck. I think I go buy an eight ball of crack and I bag it up. I said, man, I'm not

not working no job. I buy that eight ball of crack. I bag it up. I flip it. I turn that into a quarter ounce, a quarter ounce into a half ounce. Next thing you know, I'm buying what we call 62, two ounces and six grams. Bag up that. And then it's off to the races after that, man. I started, you know, getting some kids from my neighborhood. They were working for me. You know, the government alleges all this stuff. I had seven or eight crack houses at the time of my arrest. And this is from how far from being getting out of prison on parole? Yeah, I'm on parole. You're on parole, maybe 60 days. And you've already got a couple crack houses, crack houses that you're selling crack out of. Well, no, within 60 days,

I'm selling crack again. And then probably within another 60 days, about 120 days total. Yeah, I got crack houses all over the city. I don't glamorize that, man. What year is this? This was in 2002. Okay. In the 2000, the end of 2001, 2002. I don't glamorize that stuff, man. You know, I made irrationally responsible choices and keeping it real with you. I deeply regret them, yeah.

You know, it's funny you say, so, do, you do, I know you do these interviews a lot. I know you've done a few interviews, right? You've, you've been interviewed by some people. And have you ever get the question? I always get the question, like, do you regret it? And, and I've, you know how many people I've seen watch their interviews and they say they're like well no because it made me the man that i am today and bro like i regret everything 13 years you you almost did 20 years how could you not regret it i mean how many

the best years in my life man i went to prison at 24 lost you know more than half of my 20s all of my 30s and a couple years on my 40s man yeah definitely regret that i wanted to let you guys know that I have a Patreon account. If you're interested in joining the Patreon account, it's got three tiers. The top tier, you actually get a different con man painting every single month. If you're already joined and you're already supporting me, I really appreciate that. If you haven't joined yet and you're interested in joining, I'm going to leave the contact information for Patreon in the description.

Thank you very much for watching the video. Do you, yeah, do you have any brothers or sisters or? got a brother man he um i think i mentioned it's in my book too my brother killed himself shot himself in the head with a 12 gate shotgun uh no you mentioned that when you interviewed me i think we talked about that um and it was were you in prison at that time i wasn't no i was younger man i was 15 okay um so no i'm sorry go ahead so what happened with the um so you've got guys working for you you've got crack houses you've got or you're making decent sent money. Are the cops closing in? Are people getting busted? I mean, are you concerned?

Yeah. I mean, in hindsight, now you look back on it, you know, there were there were cops sitting outside my house. And I told my wife, I said, hey, you know, I see these people sitting out there. And we're watching them. And, you know, later on when I'm arrested, I realized from the investigative reports, it was the cops. Of course, drug addicts are leaving the houses. They're getting pulled over. They're busted houses, man. They bust no sooner they bust a house. We put another house up, right? So we're not seeing the bigger picture that like, yo, they're building a federal case. They're building a conspiracy, but we don't know anything about conspiracy. We just think, oh, they busted the house. This kid's going to go to get five years probation, six months in the

county jail. We had a program called Willard. He might get a one to three, get 90 days in the, you know, military boot camp type of thing. And then he'll be home. But the whole time, man, they were building a case against us. How long? So how long did they invest? You said, what would you say? It was like 14 months total? I was home for only 14 months. Their investigation was probably about eight months, but it really picked up. It was only like really serious two weeks before they arrested me.

They got a wiretap. It only took them two weeks, man. No. Where are you just talking on the phone or? Well, I had a guy, right, that I had grew up with, a kid named Donnie. I didn't, he was a little older than us. And we used to look up to him. He had a band.

He had, you know, he's playing the drums. And he becomes a drug addict. one day i'm driving in my car and i see donnie walking down the street he flags me down it's pouring down rain and i'm like oh so i pull over he's like chan man help me out man give me a ride man he tells me he's going to a hotel he can't go to his mother's house no i know his mom i know his whole family he says look man give me a ride to the hotel dude i'm going to rehab tomorrow my mom won't let me in the house he had just stole her tvs explaining that stuff to me and i'm like yeah i know horrible so i'm like all right man i'll give you a ride and then as we're driving to this hotel he's

like, dude, could you buy me something to eat? I'm like, yeah, man, I'll buy you something to eat. We go to this place called Mark's Restaurant. And I remember this, man, like it was yesterday. We're sitting in Marks, and I see these cars flying by. And I'm like, Donnie, man, how old are you? At the time, I'm probably 22. I think he might be 29. And he tells me, you know, I'm 29. I said, see these cars passing by? I said, that's your life, bro. You know, used to be that dude, when we were younger. Now you're just out here on the corner, dude, you know, pimping your girl and smoking crack. Look at your clothes. And he's like, look, dude, when I get out of rehab, will you give me a job? And he's talking about for my roofing company. Back then,

I had a roofing siding company too, right? I said, yeah, man, give me a call. We're doing a bunch of taroffs. I end up, he eats. So I drop him off the hotel, give him my car. Two weeks later, I get a call from Donnie. He leaves the rehab. He's like, yeah, man, I completely, I don't realize it's two weeks. I don't remember any of this shit until I get my paperwork, right? And he's like, Chad, look, man, the people that I'm staying with right now, he's working for me now. We're doing these taroffs. And no, he's an asset at the time. He's like, look, dude, man, can you help me out. I have nowhere to go. These people where I'm at, I'm really trying to do the right thing. I don't want to get high. They're getting high. I haven't gotten high. Can you let me stay at

your house in the basement for man, two, three weeks so I get on my feet? And I'm like, dude, I don't know if my wife's going to go for that, bro. And he's like, come on, man, please, man. So eventually I'm like, all right, dude, I'm going to let you stay here. You're clean. This is a kid that I looked up to when I was a kid. I liked this kid. He was my boy, man. He was my buddy, right? So I let him stay there. One day he leaves. He meets this chick, Lisa Gambino. right he's out with this chick Lisa and he's hanging out with her he doesn't show up the next morning for work my wife calls me at like 10 o'clock she says hey donnie's here i said hey tell him to come here come to the job site she's like all right i'm going to tell him so she tells me he says he's coming he

don't show up i call back like an hour later like yo is the kid there did he come back did he come back said he didn't have a ride he needed some change to catch the bus so she gave him some change he still never shows up i get home later that day and i find out man He stole like four ounces of crack out of my house, right? Out of the kitchen cupboard. I used to keep it in the cover, bro. So he grabs the four ounces of crack, takes off. He's out on a binge.

Eventually, he's all geeked out. He calls the cops and says, look, he's afraid of me. I mean, back then we did some bad things. He calls the cops, says, look, man, I robbed Chad. I can help you guys if you want to get him. And at this time, they actually have a little investigation going on me, but this really opens the door. And he says, if you guys give me the money to pay Chad back, I can get him.

and that's what they did. They gave him the money. He met me at the mall. He paid me. He's like, oh, man, what happened to the house? I heard the house got busted over there. He's recording all this stuff. And that's how my case gets opens up, man.

I took a dude off the street to try to help him. And he robs me and then sends me to prison for, you know, I mean, I sent myself to prison. But he opened the door for that. And then I get out of jail, right, Matt? And I'm out about five months. I end up buying a 2018 S5 Audi. And I put, I just, I just bought it. I pull in this gas station, and I hear someone say, oh, shit, that's Chad Marks.

And I look over and I know it's him instantly. He's like, hey, man, you know who I am. You remember me? He's like, I'm sorry, man, for what I did, man. And I'm like, yeah, man, I know exactly who you are. He's like, please, man, don't hurt me, man. And I looked at him. I said, dude, that's the same shit you said on that recording at the mall.

Please don't hurt me, bro. And now you're saying this shit to me again. I said, I know exactly who you are. That's not going to do nothing to you, man. you helped take 18 years of my life, man. I said, and look at you, man. You weigh about 100 pounds. You're dirty.

You're dingy. Still on the street. Still, they're the same thing over and over again. And his girl's in the passenger seat, no teeth, and she's probably a prostitute. And I just look at him, like, look where your life's at. Look where my life's at. And I've only been out five or six months. And I'm doing great.

You know, karma's a motherfucker, bro. And I said, I'm not going to hurt you. And I just let it go, man. I walked away, man. And it was probably one of the hardest things I ever did in my life, man. I've been a revengeful person. At times, I wasn't always a nice guy. It was a violent person in prison for maybe the first six or seven years in prison

because you have to be. I'm in Big Sandy. I'm in USP Polack. I'm in USP. Lee. I'm in dangerous places. But I turn my life around. And that was a turning point for me, for me to see this dude. And man, I'm not going to lie to you.

It took everything for me to walk away and not put my hands on this cat, man. And I wanted to. You know, because I mean, we've talked. a little bit and I told you you don't you know you just don't like I don't see you you know since we've when we've talked like I don't I don't see you the character that I guess you were the person you were I don't see you like that but I mean but obviously you know obviously there's things that I did clearly that I certainly you know people my girlfriend can't believe some of the stories that I say she's like you I would never do that but you know but obviously things

change it it's funny because when I first got locked up man I hated everything Everybody. You know, this, everybody had rolled over on me. Everybody had done me wrong. I shouldn't be here. I didn't deserve this. And, you know, after going through, you know, prison, when I got out, I contacted pretty much. I pretty much think I contacted every single person in my case while I was in the halfway house and apologized to him. I apologize. This chick, Allison, who, um, who cooperated with the government against me, apologized. to this chick Amanda, apologize to my buddy Travis, who I grew up with. We were best friends. He worked with the task force that busted me. Told him I was sorry for putting him in that position

that I know he did the right thing. He had a daughter. He, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I just, I had that whole kind of just totally turned around. It was like, I put, same thing. I put myself here.

Nobody put me here, you know? No, I hear you. You know, we make them, we make those choices, some other people sometimes open the door to let it in. You know what I mean? No, no doubt. But, you know, I just can't live the rest of my life hating people.

That's no good for you. It's no good for anybody. You know, I tell people all the time, man. You know, I deserve to go to prison, Matt. 100% I deserve to go to prison. But at the age of 24, 40 years? Yeah, I didn't deserve 40 years, man. You guys didn't know.

I also do paintings. And if you're interested in a painting, I'm going to leave my contact information in the description beneath the video. I always say that too. I always say, no, I had it coming. I figure I deserved about getting about a 10 year sentence. And then, you know, then you kind of do RDAF. I figured I'd do our, you know, I probably should have done six years in prison, you know, something like that. That would have been a strong deterrent. But yeah, 26 years, giving me 26 years. Like that was insane. Giving you 40 years. You're 24 years old. You're just a baby. The best years of my life gone, forever gone. You'll never get them back, man. Well, so what happened? So you went to prison. You wrote a book. You started doing legal work.

How long did it take for you to realize you had a story worth telling? You know, how long did that take? So I'm in the hole in 2008, right? My cellie gets stabbed in USP big, not 2008, 2009, I think it was. My cellie gets stabbed, right? He gets stabbed by the Aryan Brotherhood. Texas and the Aryan Brotherhood. They think he's someone else that he's not the person they think he is.

They think he's a dude that put some other dudes on in Hazleton, like, hey, these dudes are about to, you know, hit your people or whatever. He gave a little message, but he wasn't involved like that deep. So they stabbed my celly like 30-something times. I'm in the hole. He's in the hole. And I pick up this book off the book cart and it's some dude talking about federal prison.

He was in a low or something. And I'm like, man, these books are full of shit, man. Like, they're not telling the real story. We're living in Big Sandy, dude, where people are. getting stabbed people are getting murdered um people are slapping the cops and the cops are like what i do and you're just like wow a guy gets shot from the gun tower because these two dudes are hitting this dude right with a padlock they shoot the guy that's getting hit with the padlock from the gun tower on actually they shot the wrong guy and i'm like man someone needs to tell this story

what's going on into penitentiaries people think that this is camp fed people are playing tennis they're eating steak right right here is serious man it's real and that's when i really started like man i'm going to write this book I knew I was going to be in the hole for a little while, knew I was getting transferred. So I started writing the book in the hole. And eventually, I start thinking about- I'm sorry, why were you in the show? Why were you in the hole?

Your, your celly got stabbed. No, well, I ended up involved in something where a kid named Ace, he ends up, eventually he gets shot from the gun tower. So I talk about all this in my book where I tell the shop caller pretty much like, yo, dude, I'm not with this shit for the East Coast car, right? the New York dudes, the Boston dudes. I'm like, man, fuck all this, man. I'm not really with this stuff.

And eventually I get in a fight with this kid named Ace. They jumped me, Ace and a couple of dudes from Boston, kid that I was real close with from Boston, my best friend in there. But it's like this. If you don't go in the penitentiary with the strong, then you're going to get eaten up alive, right? So Ace kind of felt like, you know what?

I'm going to be the shock caller, and you're going to fall in place with us. And we kind of want to know where you're going to be at. What side are you going to be on here? And, you know, I was from New York. He's like, oh, you, you know, you fuck with the blacks real tough. And I had some friends. I was real close with a kid named Vic Lorenzano.

He's got 87 years, Puerto Rican kid out of New York. And it's really racially segregated in maximum security prisons. So dude was in his feeling. Some people looked up to me. I didn't want to be the South Color, bro. I wanted nothing to do with it. I know what comes with that stuff. I don't want to be a leader.

But I think he felt like I was stepping on his toes to a certain extent. And he punches me in the face on the basketball court. Split my lip open. We're out there fighting. pulls my long john over me and i'm like and he's telling you're on that his boy stab this bitch stab this bitch i come out of the long john right and i see the kid with the knife and he hesitated man and i hit him and by the grace of god man i hit him and he falls down he drops the knife now the sirens are going off i got the shots i can send them to you can post them i got i'll find

them so they take the knife the kid throws the knife in the drain the cops are coming it's total chaos dude they're shooting and in the shot it says i don't get down they keep shooting. I grabbed this kid. I'm hitting them. Boom, boom, boom. They're shooting. They could have killed me, man. Um, and eventually a year later, ACE is involved in another incident. I end up getting transferred to USP Lee. Ace is involved in another unit and they shoot him from the gun tower in the back. Blow his guts out with an AR-15, dude. The nurse was trying to put his guts back in and he ends up dying, man. He dies there in 2009. Almost a year to the day that I got an incident with him.

I get transferred to USP Lee. So that's why I was in the shoe. While I'm in the shoe, you know my cellie i got stabbed by the abt's i talk about that in the book and uh i start beefing with them cats so now i'm in the hat with the arian brotherhood of texas because i tell their shot caller dude named dinky who eventually goes to gets out kills somebody in texas goes to state prison gets like 99 years and then he kills himself this guy was a real piece of shit real dirtball but um i end up beefing with them on the door and i'm like yo you guys stabbed my celly you had the wrong dude they send me a kite yo when your celly comes back hit him i'm like dude you don't fucking tell me what to do this is my this my cellie's my

my boy from pre-trial we're from the same place same area so i send him back a kite like yo man you're the you're the heroine brotherhood bro you're not the aryan brother you're a bunch of heroin junkies like fuck you and i go to the rec yard and for real i'm going to do something to him i'm not going to stab him but in my mind i'm going to fuck this dude up he's only about 150 pounds soaking wet so when we go out to the wreck cages he pulls a move where he doesn't want to come in the cage with me. I'm going in his cage right here. He makes a scene. And they don't put him in the wreck cage. I would have pounded his lights out, bro. But he had a partner named Swift, and I'm going to keep it real. I probably wouldn't have, I might have got fucked up because Swift was a pretty big dude.

You know, he was a dangerous dude. He ended up becoming a Christian. But, you know, he was involved with paralyzing a dude over there. Got another six years for paralyzing the dude. Just a dangerous dude. But that was kind of my big Sandy story. So I'm stuck in the hole. I start writing the book. I said, I'm going to tell people what's really going on in these places. You know, it was on the back burner for a while, and, you know, I had wrote a rough draft. Then I wrote another rough draft. It's all in my handwriting. And I eventually feel like, you know, I'm about to get out of jail off this compassionate release.

I'm like, the book is going to be a way for me to make a little money as a stepping stone when I get out of prison, right? So I start buckling down on the book. Boom, I'm doing legal work. I'm writing the book every night. I get the book done. I get out. I get it typed up, get it edited. And I publish the book, right?

So, I mean, all right, so when you say you're doing legal work, because let's face it, not everybody can do their own legal work, right? I mean, it's difficult. Not everybody reads. But for instance, I have a hard time reading in general, but reading legalese is it's an artwork. You know, it's an art. Writing those motions is an art. I mean, writing in general is an art, but writing the motions is. So how long, how long, how long? was it before you like you started doing were you doing other guys 2255s yeah done so you know this is this is kind of how my legal career started i'm in coleman right and we're locked down and this kid kiki that i you know i was kicking it with him a little bit he's from tennessee he had a bunch of time in he's got a crack case he sees me always in the law library we get locked down he's like dude i need your help the guy that does the legal work over there he's writing 3582 motions for a hundred bucks in commissary right or cigarettes he was kind of like a cigarette junkie over So we're locked down.

No one can do Kiki's reply because this dude's in the other unit. There's no jailhouse lawyers in the unit. He's like, dude, I need your help. I'm like, dude, I don't know, bro. Like I didn't have confidence in doing other people's stuff, you know? Yeah. I'm like, dude, I don't know. He's like, please, man.

If not, I'm going to get denied. So I'm like, all right, dude. He's like, I'll give you whatever you want. I get my $30 list in commissary. When we come off lockdown, just get me some soap and deodorant and shampoo, I felt guilty like getting food. I felt like maybe if I could just get hygiene products, it's all right to do this for a couple of

And I do it, man. I win. I handwrite it. And we win. So when we win, he starts telling everybody we come off lockdown. Hey, this dude did my stuff. And he won quick. So this Cuban guy. You want a 2255 that you know, I won his 3582. Just a sentence reduction. Oh, but the government was fighting him on it. Right. Still. So we win that. So now this Cuban guy comes to me. He's from Florida. They're doing those like reverse sting robberies and they're, you know, they're robbing these carjacking these people. I do his 2255. And I win it. It's the first one I've ever done in my life. And I win it. He was like, please help me. I'm like, all right, man, I'll help you. So I win that. He goes back to court, 2255 hearing. He ends up, I think he cops out to 11 years or 12 years. They give him a new plea. His lawyer was ineffective during a plea negotiation process. So we win that on a Lafleur versus Cooper, Missouri versus Fry. That was right around, I think the time that stuff came out. Yeah, yeah. I was going to say that was when they were, that was when they were setting people up and getting them to go like rob drug dealers. And then the cops with the DEA. would be waiting for him. They jump on him. They catch him with a gun. Reverse sting robbery.

Four guns. They know what they're doing. They're lying in the right. They were setting people up left and right. So then I ended up doing this kid of Derris Mazzio Black's case. And I'm still working on it. Being the Derriss are very close. He's the kid that got caught with like a, his conspiracy was 100 keys of coke. Angie Martinez was, she was the musician and that was his girlfriend. I think he was really close with Nick Cannon.

Eminem, a bunch of them people. He ended up getting a face transplant, big, big money. own four or five bally's in California. So I end up doing his case. And once I start doing his case, he opens up the door for me to help other people like the kid, Boobie out of Florida. Boobie's like a famous dude that Rick Ross and all them rap about. And that's where the legal career kind of took off.

Eventually, I would write the first compassionate release motion in the country to ever win. The first one that was submitted, the first one that wins. I wrote the Conrado Cantu case out of Texas. Thousands and thousands of people are getting out of prison off of this compassionate release motion now, including my first one. myself. That's how I got out. So I ended up right in that. And I'm like, look, dude, I think I'm right. If you want to practice, we'll practice. And you know, I'm going to tell people, you know, who Conrado can too is. He was a mayor. He was the chief of police down in Texas.

And he ends up getting caught up into conspiracy. And I end up with that cat in Lexington, right when the first step back drops. And I'm like, dude, you want to give it a shot? I'm practicing. And we do it when we win. I mean, people have made it better since then. But that was the first case ever when. I also wrote the first article about how people can get out on compassionate release. It was published in the prisoners legal news. I was a staff writer for criminal legal news and prison legal news while in prison.

And when I got out. So that's where my legal career kind of started and where it's at now. I own a paralegal in prison consultant firm. You were, so you're also friends with, what's the guy we talked about him? He was on 2020 or was it 60 minutes? Sean Hopwood.

Yeah, he was a bank robber, right? Phenomenal dude, man. One of the most intelligent dudes I've ever come across. was in federal prison, became a lawyer, became a law professor at Georgetown. I think he was instrumental in a lot of the stuff on the first step back. He's one, he was the only jailhouse lawyer, I think to win three, two or three rid of certs in front of the Supreme Court as a jailhouse lawyer. Right. Lawyers go their whole career is praying and wishing that they can win a case in the Supreme Court. He did from inside the prison, right? He's doing it from inside the prison,

one of the most intelligent people I've ever come across. So I have a question. I think we kind of skimmed over it. I wanted to know. You didn't go to trial, right? You took a plea. No, I went to trial. I went to trial. I was going to say, what's the, yeah, what's the, because if you get in 40 years. No, I was a trial. I was convicted. My PSI came back life plus 30 years. My mandatory minimum was 40. And the judge said, I'm going to act in a moment of compassion here.

And I'm going to give you the mandatory minimum for the sake of your mother. And he sentenced me to the mandatory minimum. He gave, you know, he gave me an out date. it was 40 years but he gave me an outdate and then eventually he grants me eventually he grants me um compassionate release right and then since i've been out man he even wrote me a letter nice and said look man you know i i you know i took a chance with you don't let me down he said you promised me in the letters that you wrote me that you would not let me down and you know i'm trying to fulfill that man i don't want to i was going to say you know it sounds like you know it sounds like, you know, 40 years isn't, you know, giving you a chance.

But the truth is, you know, he doesn't have a choice. Like he couldn't go lower than that, right? Or do you feel he could have? No, he couldn't go any lower than that. That was my mandatory minimum. There was no going any lower that. And at the time, I mean, in my sentencing transcripts, it's in the beginning of my book. And he says, hey, if this isn't sufficient and greater than, you know, if this punishment

isn't sufficient enough, then I don't know what is. But, you know, there were things in this. case where I think 40 years is sufficient. And I'm like, damn, man. It wasn't a, you know, it was a nonviolent conviction, but there was violence in the case, man. There were things done in the case, not, you know, specifically by me, but by some of the co-defendants. And it was a bad case, man. Some people did some bad things in this case. Yeah. I mean, I know how they make you sound in front. It, look, even if it's not

a bad case, when you get in front of the judge, they, the prosecutors make you just sound like, they make you sound like scarface you know i mean you know i every time i've read somebody sentencing transcripts is like jesus like this guy they made you sound horrible um me they start talking about machine guns and things it's like i've never had a machine gun like they found like a receipt for a gun that i didn't have they found you know there's all kinds of ridiculous stuff that was like but you know they say it and your lawyer my lawyer was just like shh shh shh don't i'm like that's not true that's not true and she doesn't want to say she's like just just stop just just it's almost over for her yeah so crazy so you got out how long ago two years is it two years

i've been out about 20 i think i'm going on 27 months now man oh no it's 26 months you know what it was 26 months yesterday i think that's something you're already married you have i was married when i went to prison i got remarried to my ex-wife. I got two little twin boys. They were, they're seven months old. And you know, honestly, dude, in the beginning, man, when all that stuff was going on, I thought that's what I wanted.

Then I was like, damn, man, you know, it was overwhelming. I'm like, this probably ain't, I'm not prepared for this, dude. I was scared, man, for real. And now that I do have them, dude, it's like, wow, man, I'm a dad, you know, and I have to be responsible. I have to take care of these two little dudes, man. That's them right there. So I'm like, you know what, man, it's the, it brings me more joy than anything that I could

ever imagine. And sometimes, like I did my book in audio too, right? And I did the last couple chapters were the other night and I was listening to a dude and I had to leave my living room and walk downstairs to come into this room. And I got a little emotional, bro. We're like, damn, man, I was supposed to maybe die in prison or get out when I'm 63 or 64 years old. And then I just reflected on everything like, look where my. life is now and what it was supposed to be. I was supposed to stay in prison. I, you know, I guess you could say I beat the odds to a certain extent, but my story's still going. I'm still in the driver's seat. So, yeah, but it's a blessing, man, not to be in prison for 40 years.

Yeah, listen, every time somebody cuts me off and I'm driving or some little stressful thing and I get a little spike of anger, I think, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're supposed to be in prison right now. Yeah. You go ahead and, you go ahead and pull in that lane. You go ahead and do that. You go ahead and do that. You try and be thankful for you know everything i have because yeah i'm i'm supposed to be getting out in 2030 mine was 2038 march god when in 2003 supposed to get out in 238 but all my good time as long as i stayed out of trouble so so the books on your books on amazon what about the audio we talked about the audio it's not up yet for audible no um I've been selling the zip file on audio, on audio, whatever, to people on my YouTube

channel. I published the whole thing on YouTube in spurts with, you know, pictures of, you know, whoever I'm talking about going through like a slideshow. You can get the book on Amazon. People can get it directly from me. Go on Amazon and read the first three chapters. That's the book, blood this way. Blood on the razor wire.

Yeah. I promise you won't be disappointed. Well, Ann, you got to. You got to do a free book, dude, anyway. Yeah, bro. You got to get the, send me the audio because you got to get. the audio up because you'll be shocked how much how well the uh the audibles do okay because you know people people will listen to look people will watch your your your your your youtube things blowing up

anyway you're over like 55 000 uh subscribers in like a year so people that just hear about you people will go from my channel there and they'll check you out and they'll see your interview and your interviews are much more hardcore than my interview you're a hardcore guy i'm not yeah i know so you know i mean i always said this yesterday i'm a soft as fucking cotton like I'm not not I'm not getting into a knife fight I'm not I'm not I'm not going to the pen uh no but but regardless like your guys will will especially audio if they're already listening to you do your interviews they're going to want to they're going to want to listen to your book so you got to get that thing up on on on audible then yeah you'll be shocked I had

someone that I had hired to do all that stuff and I guess it didn't work out and I haven't heard from them in about a month so but you had the files yeah i got the files i mean i've recorded i got so yeah i'm gonna work on getting that done um okay well i mean look i i i yeah man i mean we've talked if you talk already off off you know yeah off air whatever uh and then i just did my my interview with on your channel you did you know so check out you know my interview on uh on chad's channel um blood on the razor wire and um why didn't you call it why didn't you call it uh go with your first name just why don't you go with chad marks what the book no no you're for your channel oh i mean because that was that's kind of what my theme was man um i didn't know nothing really

about youtube and all of that type of stuff and i'm like man i got this book blood on the razor wire you might as well call the youtube channel the same thing um and really, man, my mission was more of, and I've spoke about this before, my mission is to save kids from life, imprisonment, premature death in the streets. But the channel has become more of a channel where dudes that got out of prison, it's a reminder, like, man, I don't never want to, I got a lot of federal dudes on there. Like, I don't want to go back. Federal chicks. And, you know, when I got the title, I talked about this the other day, I was reading that book, Blood in the Water, about the Attica uprising. And I said, man, I should name my book,

blood on the razor wire because all these dudes are leaving their blood here. All these people are dying in these places, man. They just had another murder at Polok, just came off a lockdown. A couple murders in Beaumont. People were murdered in Big Sandy all the time. USP Lee, I witness people get murdered, man. Like from, you know, for me 10 feet away, I see a guy get killed, get stabbed in the chest, 80 days left to go home.

And he decides he's going to tell a guy he's got to go back to protective custody. Dude from California, Lairdog, pulls out the knife, hits him in the chest one time. dude jumps back like he's ready to fight takes his last breath falls down i watched this dude die bro watch another dude die in my unit he told the dude stop stabbing me man don't kill me and the dude said it's too late for that they're drinking they're playing poker dude you know he's drunk he's talking shit he's from virginia talking shit to a dc dude pulls up his shirt he said i'll put that knife in you acts like he had a knife and he didn't and the other kid did and he got up and started you know stab him and the crazy thing is the kid that kills him man was really a good dude

man he i think he came to prison with like eight years ended up with an additional 20 for selling someone heroin in prison that overdosed and died and now he goes from eight years to 20 now he goes from 20 to life for killing the dude in prison yeah the dude said man don't kill me he said it's too late for that and then when he was in the hole man he was he was upset he was crying about it i was in the hole at the same time as him at us p lee and it was just like damn bro the dude was a nice dude man you hear that a lot guys will come over five years and they'll get another 10 years for fucking doing something something stupid over over nothing over pride over just somebody hurt their pride or somebody disrespected them or somebody you know it's just and it's

just yeah I'm just I'm glad like I told you this like I was in the medium for three years went to the low didn't really want to go to the low yeah because you know it's an open bay and I had a cell there you know what I'm saying like I had you know it's a tougher environment but the truth is when I got to the low it was it was a better environment for me I This is all I got a slick mouth. I'm already having an issue. I'm not even realizing I'm saying stupid shit. Guys are coming over to me saying, hey, bro.

You know, and I'm like, oh, I didn't even realize. Listen, I was slamming my door, my cell door when I walked out. I had a guy come over me. I didn't even realize I was doing it. I didn't think it was a big deal. I'm trying to take a nap, bro. Oh, yeah. He's ready to kill me.

He started the conversation with, listen, man, I've been taking anger management classes. And my first thought was, no good conversation has ever started with I've been taking anger management class. I thought, this is going to go bad. And he was like, you slamming your door for like a week now. I didn't even know who the guy was. And he was like, look, I don't want to do nothing. I don't want this to become an issue. And I'm starting to realize I'm going to get myself hurt for slamming a fucking door.

Like, just something stupid. But the doors are so bad. You know, I know guys that got stabbed because they. They didn't, they, a guy Selly who'd been Selley with him for years, they're walking by each other and his Selly went like this to him and he didn't see it. So he just kept walking, guy fucking stabbed him that night. It's just people who have mental conditions. You know, it's, it's the wild world of prison. Yeah.

So, um, listen, man, I appreciate you doing the interview. I don't know if you have anything else do you want to say. Just, you know, hey, I want people, you know, if you want, check out the book on Amazon. You get the first three chapters for free. I promise you won't be disappointed. If you want to check out the YouTube channel, we've got a pretty good channel, man. I do have some hardcore people. I've interviewed former federal judges.

I've interviewed DEA agents, cops, correctional officers, other prisoners. I interviewed Troy Kell. Some of your viewers might know who he is. He was probably the reason why this whole prison genre started with people talking about prison and you know YouTube eventually in 2000 um it was in 2001 maybe HBO did the documentary gladiator days on this dude and that kind of like people were like wow that's you know some people have a fascination with prison and I don't want to be interviewed before I don't think he's been interviewed before right aren't you one of the only people to interview him yeah he um the last time he ever

did anything was with HBO so it's a you know pretty good interview and that was 20 years ago he's like no they did me wrong I'm not interviewing with no one and eventually I do interview him But I like to say it's not just a prison YouTube channel. That's how it started, but I think it's more of a life experience channel. And, you know, it is violent, just like the book is violent. But, you know, we opened the door with that, but I try to give a message in every video, man, a message of positivity and, you know, getting your life right, doing the right thing. And, you know, we open that door and say, look, this is the road. You can go this way and have this or you can go this way.

And, you know, you're the driver. You know, you're the author of your own story, man. So check us out, Blood on the Razor Wire TV. All right. Well, I appreciate it. And hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching this far. Do me a favor. If you like the video, hit the like button, hit the bell to get notified of videos like this. Leave a comment in the comment section. And I appreciate you watching. And check out blood on the razor wire. See you. I appreciate you too. All right. Thank you.