Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - A.I. That Scams the Scammers | Beat Spam Calls

Episode Date: March 30, 2025

How A.I. is collection money from spam callers. How to get rid of spam calls.Do Not Pay https://donotpay.comJosh's IG https://www.instagram.com/joshuabrowder12/?hl=enFollow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrimeDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

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More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. and then some get your ticket to more with the new bemo v i porter mastercard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months terms and conditions apply visit bimo.com slash viporter to learn more there's something called the federal do not call list so it's a government list and it says that if you're on this list they're not allowed to call you and if they do you can charge the 1,500 for every call so the first thing the robot will do is it will sign you, do all the clicking and sign you up to this government list. Once you're on the list, the next time you get a call, you can trap them, like I said.

You can pick up the phone and say, yes, I'm very interested in what you're selling. Here's my card number. Instead of giving your real card number, you're giving this honey trap. And that's how it gets all the details. And then finally, the software and AI generates this demand letter, say, you violated the Telephone Control Act. Please give me the settlement money. they're worried about is other people figuring out that they've done something wrong. And so they

will often settle and sign a confidentiality agreement. They'll say, I'm not going to give you $1,500, but I'll give you $750 if you don't tell anyone. And that's good for consumers because they could just sign it and get that money. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Joshua Brower. He is the founder and CEO do not pay. He's got a really interesting thing that he's doing right now. So we're going to get into the interview. Check it out. My company helps people fight back using AI. It gets people money from big companies and people scamming them, gets them justice. The first use case a few years ago was parking tickets, helping people get out of their tickets. And we since expanded to over 200

areas of the law, including what you were mentioning, which is suing roboculars. There's an based before, it says you can get $1,500 every time someone calls you. But these robocallers, they hide behind spam identities, they don't tell you who they are. And so what we've thought I do not pay is a trap. And that is a credit card. And when they try and sell you something, you can give them the credit card. And the transaction declines, but it gets their business name, address, and phone number. And then the AI generates a demand letter and lawsuit to get you your money.

And this is really popular with people because these robocoolers are just getting out of control and someone needs to fight back against them. Right. Well, let's go back to the beginning. Like, obviously, you weren't born in San Francisco. That's right. So, as you can tell from my accent, I'm from London, England, originally. I moved here when I was 18 to study at Stanford. And I'll use the excuse that the Americans drive on the other side of the road. but really I was a terrible driver and got maybe 30 parking tickets

when I was starting driving. I was really bad. And I was a college student and I couldn't afford to pay these really expensive tickets and so I had to figure out other ways to get out of them. And I recite all of the laws and I realized if you know the right things to say not just in parking tickets but also in life

you can save a lot of money. And so I started writing these letters and remarkably they were all successful and soon my family and friends were asking for my help getting out of the tickets and I was writing the same letter over and over again to help them and I created Do Not Pay just to make things a bit more simple

and I could never imagine that even though it was just for a few family and friends it would go internationally and viral and everyone hates parking tickets and that's what made me realize that the idea of helping people with AI and automated legal rights is bigger than just tickets and I can expand to so many other areas

where people are being ripped off or don't know what to say because they don't have the time and money to fight back. Right. Well, okay. So, I mean, in England, like, I mean, were you, are you an only child? Are your parents in the law, you know, involved in law work? Are they lawyers? Are they in the tech industry?

So I'm one of six. So there's a big family. My dad is not a lawyer, but he's actually involved in human rights. Before it became called to fight Russia, he was a big anti-Russia human rights activist. And he didn't teach me anything about the law, but one thing he taught me is to be fearless, and if you are upset with something, you should stand up for yourself. And I think that, although I'm not fighting against the Russian mafia, fighting against parking tickets and robo-coolers, it's still a small aspect of that standing up for what you believe in.

And I think everyday people should do that too. These big companies know that you can't afford to fight back over $20. People are so busy. They don't have time to wait on hold for four hours to get $20 back from Wells Fargo. And that's what these big companies know, and they're using that. And so it's a good job for software to fight back for people. Right. Okay.

So how did you end up at Stanford? So when I was about 13 or 14, I taught myself to code using their YouTube videos. This was before the days they had of these like code. academies and everything. I just use YouTube. And there were these Stanford YouTube videos and they were amazing. And I thought, if this is what the YouTube videos are like, one can only imagine what it's like to actually be there with the palm trees. And it was a dream country. I think people are much more ambitious in America than they are in England. There seems like a ceiling on ambition in London and England as a whole. But in Silicon Valley, it's almost

delusional. The sky is the limit. And so you can create something and not have to ask anyone's permission just build the world that you want um okay so i mean when you so you applied for stanford i mean what was this what was your specific goal in going to stanford my goal was to meet like-minded people um right these days everyone has an app everyone has a tech project but when i was growing up it was there's very few people like building these things and i wanted to find people like me because in my high school I was maybe one or two kids uh out one of one of two kids who knew how to code and I just wanted to be around more like-minded people and build projects with other people okay and you got to Stanford you started this

what when did you so when did you actually turn it into a company I mean I understand you you're saying it slowly took effect but when did you actually did you graduate Stanford No, so I dropped out after three and a half years. I took something called the Teal Fellowship, where Peter Thiel pays people like me to drop out and work on companies instead. I didn't drop out because I set the Teal Fellowship, I dropped out because I was too busy with my company. At three and a half years, I mean, you were two semesters away,

or no, you're like a semester away. It got to the point where I would forget to renew the server for my website, and the whole thing would go down, and we would lose customers. And so it was really a point of where all in or backing out. And it was such a great opportunity here that I wanted to take it and build my dream. I actually got a bunch of friends together and we rented out the house where Facebook was started in Palo Alto. And when I dropped out, we were building Do Not Pay for that.

And it was exactly like the movie, the social network, we're living together, like 24-7 working, drinking like these energy drinks to stay not having time to eat and it was a really amazing time okay so what is so all right so you said you you kind of expanded ended you're expanding in a different arenas as far as like fighting back what what are those when i when i launched and i got all this um usage um i had a contact form on my website and nobody knew that there was just this college student from their dorm room building this. And so they would write in, say, they would think I was a law firm or something, saying, can you help me? Comcast just overcharged me, or can you help me? My landlord is

evicting me. And this gave me all these ideas for expansion. And so one by one, I spent the time was heads down building out these new features in the Facebook house. And the very next service we launched was airline services, then bill negotiation, and all of these different things to help people. And what's really exciting is the business do not pay started as a template. So here's a template to get out of your parking ticket. But now in the AI era, we're actually using true AI to negotiate back and forth. So one service we have is AI build negotiation. And the way it works is the AI will log into your utility account, open up the online chat, and the AI will start chatting with them to negotiate your bill. And what's interesting is the big companies are

using AI. We're using AI. So the two AI's negotiating is a battle to help people. And we're more motivated, so our AI is better. And so we win a lot of cases for people. How do you, do you charge it, is it just a simple fee or is there a subscription? It's a subscription. It's 18 bucks a month. And, um, and, um, Someone gets access to all of do-not-pay services, and it has a very high ROI because we have people, they say, hundreds or thousands of dollars a year. Going back to Robocalls, we have someone, it was his full-time job for a while suing Robo-Callers. He made about $50,000. He even bought a new roof for his house from all the RoboCall settlements.

So we like to think that it's a lot cheaper than hiring a lawyer to do all this, because there's not a lawyer who's going to get out of that to fight combat. cost for you. So how does the robocall thing work? Like, I mean, they have to do a certain thing, right? I get them, you know, I get them all the time. They, you know, they shows up saying, sometimes it'll show up saying having a person's name.

Yeah. So there's something called the federal do not call list. So it's a government list and it says that if you're on this list, they're not allowed to call you. And if they do, you can charge the 1,500 for every call. So the first thing the robot

What we'll do is it will sign you, do all the clicking and sign you up to this government list. Once you're on the list, the next time you get a call, you can trap them. Like I said, you can pick up the phone and say, yes, I'm very interested in what you're selling. Here's my card number. Instead of giving you a real card number, you're giving this honey trap. And that's how it gets all the details. And then finally, the software and AI generates this demand letter, say, you've violated the Telephone Control Protection Act. Please give me the cell phone. the money and then if that doesn't work, you can even file a court case in small claims court to get your money. Yeah, and it's cheaper for them to just pay it that it is for them to actually go to court. Yeah, what they're worried about is other people figuring out that they've done something wrong. And so they will often settle and sign a confidentiality agreement. They'll say, I'm not going to give you $1,500, but I'll give you $750 if you don't tell anyone. And that's good good for consumers because they could just sign out and get that money.

I mean, are they, are they allowed to hide their, you know, that, you know, hide behind like a, you know, a do not, you know, where it won't tell you who's calling. It doesn't tell you. Like I have, the service plan I have tells me who everybody is that calls. And I'll get the things where it says possible scam or possible telemarketer, but it doesn't say who's calling. exactly so when they call i'm saying when a when a robocall calls i mean so so the government is stacking in and they're trying to stop this at a government level and so they're saying to all the telephone networks you have to identify who's calling you but the robocallers are making so much money that they're finding ways around these regulations and this is a bit this is a problem in life in general i think i call it concentrated benefit but spread out harm so what i mean by that is a big company can charge 10 million people, a $10 late fee, they make $100 million, but the people being charged $10 fee, they have no ability to fight back. And so it's so profitable for these robocallers and big companies to break the law that they still do it, even though there are all these rules around it.

okay do you have are there any um i don't know why this makes me think of um there's a comedian who writes letters back and forth christend vich oh yeah yeah he had a book about memos or yeah yeah it's very funny um i don't know why it's basically think of that we we've actually built another product around this So if you get a spam email So we had a lot of people saying I don't get out many robo pools But I get a lot of spam emails

And so we wanted to build a product to help them And we felt a product Like an AI version of that media Where it will engage them In endless conversation using AI So this is another thing Just wasting time of these scammers To stop them from doing bad things

If they're all up with the AI And they don't have time to scam people Yeah it makes me think of when the scammers call from like India and they'll get on the phone and act like a act like a retiree or you're an older person and they'll just just keep them on the line as long as possible to wear them down and get them frustrated

and yeah whenever a new technology comes out it's typically used for evil first so what we're seeing a do not pay is there's a lot of these scammers they're using fake voices so imagine someone gets a call from their relative, but it's not actually their relative asking for money with deep fakes and things like that. And so we're trying to give power to the people to level the playing field and fight fire with fire. Yeah, what's going to happen when, like right now,

they have programs where I can basically, they can take a 20 minute or an hour long tape of my voice recording my voice. No, even two minutes. minutes. Okay. Yeah, I saw one where it was like the longer you, the more you gave them, the better it was. Yeah. But yeah, that's what's going to happen when you start thinking you get your got a call from your wife and she asked you to wire money. Like that's... Now you have a good excuse to say no. Right. But no, in all seriousness, I think it's a huge problem and society's going to have to deal with it. I had another question. There was one I watched where people were getting like you were scheduling or getting rescheduled for like the DMV. Yeah. That was one of the services is that you guys will call and reschedule or go on the DMV website

to try and get you placed higher. Yeah, so we have a bot that will phone up the DMV and say with a fake voice, I want an appointment and it will keep phoning up like a thousand times a day to get you an appointment until it finds a cancellation. And this is another job for AI. AI is not perfect. It's not going to replace lawyers arguing in the Supreme Court anytime soon. But it definitely can get you a DMV appointment and save people time and energy is what it's all about. Okay.

How long have you been, how long has the company been around? So I've been working on it for about seven years, but it's been a company for about five years. When I was at Stanford and I got all of this press and virality, eventually the VCs started to take notice and then we made it into a business. Okay, so you got venture capital. That's right. Yeah. How many subscribers do you have right now? We have over 200,000 subscribers. service. And we're only a team of seven people. So that's the amazing thing about software. You

can build something and then it scales infinitely. What other, do you have any, any other services that are, I mean. Yeah. So one thing we do is we cancel hundreds of thousands of subscriptions every year. I joke that you don't need AI to cancel a subscription, but in America it's such a broken country that you do. So some gyms, they make you sign this legal letter and have to send it off just to stop them from billing you. The New York Times, do you have to chat with an agent to cancel your subscription?

And that's a great job for AI. It goes in and it cancels the subscription for you. And all these barriers that these big companies put in the way, such as saying, hey, do you want to stay for three more months at a discounted rate and just to waste you? your time and get you to give in, AI is ruthless and it will just get through all of that and get it done. So we like to think that, so these big companies, they do things called dark patterns where it's these business strategies to rip people off, and AI is the solution to that.

what about like credit dispute letters you know what if you've got bad credit or can it take can it do those that way of help fix your credit or help get things taken off your credit yeah so my missioner do not pay is to replace lawyers so that the average person doesn't need to hire a lawyer and we looked at credit dispute companies. And these companies are evil because they charge people thousands of dollars just to do a very simple fix on their credit report. And so we decided to replace them. And we didn't know anything about credit reporting. And so what we did is I had one of my team members interview for a job at a credit repair agency to find out exactly what they do so that we can automate it with AI. And we figured out what they did and we've got that as a product now. And similar to other types of disputes. It's really about just sending in these letters under the Fair Credit Reporting Act and causing so much paperwork for these companies that they don't respond and then the

consumer wins and that negative items get removed. And that would be something that a consumer would previously pay thousands of dollars for, but it's now included in a list of services. And people love that. Do you have any stories or anything of any specific cases or, or, um, any more of anything you know interesting that I don't even know what I'm trying to say any interesting cases that you've that you've handled yeah recently we had an elderly consumer from Boston use our service to get out of a timeshare they had signed got suckered into the timeshare agreement and the AI found a way out and there's a cooling off period in the timeshare agreement and by law, and it generated this really aggressive letter and got this person out of the timeshare. I think they were over the age of 80, and the timeshare was actually in Mexico. So it's not even just about U.S. law sometimes.

It can go cross-border in helping people. And it's really a shame, like the kind of number of people who are getting ripped off every day is really sad. In the UK, I feel like it's a much fairer country, the consumer rights are much. stronger. So for example, if your flight is delayed in England, where I'm from, you get the refund automatically to your bank account. In the US, you have to apply for the refund. And so there's all these hoops you have to jump through that we're dealing with every day. Yeah, I was going to say I have, this was a while ago, this was probably 20 years ago. I remember we went to a hotel in Puerto Rico my wife and I at the time and several things happened like it was a really nice

hotel but several things happened like every time I would enter the hotel we would get stopped and asked for our key and like the third day I said but why do you guys keep doing you keep like it's first of all it's the same guy I was like why do you keep doing this yes and he said well there's a nightclub upstairs and people use the elevator here when they should go around so we check the keys we check to make sure you have your you know your car card, your room card. Yeah, I remember going, like it was my wife and I were dressed like tourists. We had a baby with us. Yeah. You know what they're like? Like, we're not going to the club with the baby. So that happened. And another thing happened was a staff member walked into

our room one morning at like 7.30 in the morning. Like just knocked on the door, open the door and walked in. And we were like, hey, hey, what are you doing? And they were like, oh, and the guy had a drill. They were fixing something. And we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And he left. And there was one other issue. I remember I went back to my office and I wrote a letter when I got back from vacation. I wrote a letter and they sent us like five days, you know, four nights, you know, five days and four nights for free. Yeah. And it was another time that like my son had thrown his, there was used to be game boys. He threw a game boy down on the ground. He was like three. And it broke. And I just mailed it back to the company with a letter saying, we love your product. And I said exactly what happened.

Admittedly, my son threw this on the ground. Is there any way I could pay to have it fixed? No, I know they can't fix it. Instead, they sent us a brand new one with a bunch of game. So sometimes just responding, you know, in a way, it gets you something because nobody responds. I mean, nobody writes letters. Yeah, I'm the exact same person as you. I don't, I believe in the justice. It's not always about the money, but even just getting that refund or getting what's right is so important to me. And so I'm the type of person to wait on hold for five hours just to get that $100 refund.

And what I'm trying to do is scale asks, you sound very good at writing these letters, but not everyone has the time or the skills to do it. And that's what we're automating with do not pay. Yeah, it's funny. I had a, so I have a, we had a couple that were friends. And my wife at the time had told them, oh, Matt wrote a letter and got. us whatever four nights five days whatever and so she ended up writing a letter whatever weeks later for an for an issue and they came back and they were like they just gave her an

apology and she was like I don't understand I wrote them that nothing happened I go what did you say I told them that their the hotel was horrible I told them that I would never stay there again I told them and I was like well whoa you didn't give them an out you didn't give them opportunity to correct the situation. You just told them you're horrible. You'll never use them again. I said, I asked them, is there any way for us to rectify this? We love your hotel. We stay there all the time. Our family stay there. So I structured it to give them an out. She didn't give them an out. Yeah. So in AI, there's something called prompting, which is where you tell the AI how to negotiate or what you want AI to say. And we completely agree with you. We say, we

want you to say all these laws, we feed it, we train it about the laws, but we say you have to be polite. And that's the most important thing, because no one wants to give something to a bad person. If you're rude or impolite, they're not going to give you a refund as quickly. We actually have one product. It scans your email bookings for hotels. And every time you're about to check into a hotel a few days before, it writes to the manager and writes a really polite, nice note saying, hey, I love your hotel so much. Uh, you use. the data like this is my first booking or I'm the first time I'm in the city you potentially open to giving me an upgrade and it works a very high rate because it's a personal touch so I agree

it's not always about the law as being about a charismatic nice kind of letter as well so how how do you see this scaling a minute at what rate is there a ceiling to it you know how how are your growth, I guess, for the company. I'm biased, but I think everyone in America and one day the world can use a robot lawyer to help them. One day I want to go international. UK is a slightly better, less broken country than the US, but it's still got serious problems. And so I want to expand there, Australia, Canada. Anywhere where there's rule of law, I think it will work well. We've got our works cut out for us here in America first. We're launching new products every week. Last week, we launched a product

that funds up UPS and FedEx. And when they promise two-day delivery and they give it three days, it funds them up and get a refund. So we're figuring out a way to automate all of these different areas. But every problem and worldwide, I think, is where we want to take it. Right. What about politicians? Do you have anything that will write your local politician? We have that today. And also writing to inmates, there are these really exploitative companies that charge you like $5 to send a message, and we've automated it with the mail. So politicians and inmates you can write to using Do Not Pay. There's too many services to mail.

Okay. What is one of your, what's one of the newest services? One service we have is called the Free Trial Credit Credit Credit. card. So a lot of people, they sign up for a free trial and they obviously forget to cancel. So we've built a credit card that is a burner credit card that you can use that's not linked to you. So you can use it for all your free trials and things like that and reservations as well. And when they try and charge you at the clients. So that's really popular service with people. What kind of, how are you advertising this? We do a lot of social, which is how you found out about us.

We also do SEO, so we publish about 50,000 consumer guides on our website. So things like how to sue United, how to get a refund from Comcast. People find it organically on Google, and every three paragraphs is a button that says, solve this problem for me. And of course, people don't like to read. They just would prefer that software does it for that. So that's really it. We don't spend that much money on advertising.

people just love our product and word of mouth and those two two ways is how we grow. Do you have, so you're saying social, you know, you do social media, but I mean, I saw your Instagram. Do you have any, do you have a TikTok or? We have TikTok. We're really doubling down on it. I've realized the power of it. So not advertising on those platforms, but just content that appeals to people. So I think the way you discovered us is we did this post about how to sue robot call and I think you've got 100,000, like, or something crazy like that. And people really resonate with this stuff.

Everyone is busy and gets money taken out their account every day. And so where they see this content, it helps them fight back. Do you do all the advertising or do you have anyone else to it also? No, we do it. One of my teammates does it. We're not experts at anything. We just love what we do and figure things out as we go. I think I would love to go into how it actually works.

Yeah, I would love to hear how, okay. My fear is that that's probably more technical than I believe. People at high level. So when chat GPT first came out, it was a much simpler AI. It was called GPT3. And about six months later, the company behind chat GPT came up with a more sophisticated AI called GPT4. And what we've seen at Do Not Pay is that when we're using this ourselves

so businesses like ours can plug in to chat GPT and use it for our disputes. And when they upgraded the AI, it became almost 10 times better for what we're doing. So when we were negotiating with Comcast, for example, the old AI, the old chat GPT would say things like, well, Comcast would say, I'll give you a $20 discount. And then our AI would say, sounds good, thank you so much.

But now the new AI says, no, I want $100 because there's been four outages in the past 24 hours. And so what's really exciting is we're seeing firsthand just how good the technology is getting. And every week it feels like we're making years of progress. And I'm excited to see what's going to happen like next year as well with GPT-5. Okay. Yeah, um Stop. Do you know how fast you were going?

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I was going to say, I mean, my wife's daughter has, like, will talk to, like, it's a friend and go, like, the first time she discovered this app, she went, like, all day. Yeah. When I was growing up, we would joke that, like, you only had, like, online friends. Yeah. You know, that you had these friends that these Facebook friends. Yeah. That you never, ever met. But now it's not even my day.

I'm getting old. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I mean, I have a friend in Silicon Valley. He's building a company that makes AI girlfriends. And that's not a watch I want to live in. But I suppose it can help lots of lonely people. Yeah.

I mean, I've got, I have a buddy who just sit me a, he had. he had chat GPT write an article about me just why stuff it found on the on the internet read this whole article and i have a i have a friend that uses it all the time to do to write stuff and he'll go through and as he's proofreading it he'll alter little bits and pieces but it is amazing it's amazing that the responses and the um well anyway you know all this anyway yeah well there is a problem which is the i is very dishonest so the way they train the ai is they make it like us, and humans are very dishonest in general. And so what we see in our disputes sometimes is that AI is lying on the consumer's behalf.

So earlier I mentioned the chat cheapity AI would say, oh, I've had four internet outages recently, and that would just not be true. And so from a legal liability perspective, we have to tell the AI, make sure you stick to the truth. And same with writing stories about you. It could make things up. And there's been plenty of places where someone has asked. chat GPT about someone and chat GPT has said this person is a convicted criminal and it's just

not true and it would cause a lot of problems for open AI but in my case that is true um how you yeah well it's access to justice is something I feel very strongly about but that that I didn't come up with that based on your example we would say like this person is like not well respected I'm not sure it would just say these mean things yeah well like there's stuff that it will pull, you know, the sources it's pulling from say Wikipedia, for example. Yeah. You know, there are things on Wikipedia about me that aren't true, that it mentioned, or it would say things like, you know, there was a, somebody had said something about like I was on the FBI's, like I was number one on the FBI's most wanted list, and that wasn't true. And then that showed up.

Yeah. And I feel like consumers have rights, you should be able to fight back against that. If I was saying, if I was going on TV and saying all these untrue things, I could get sued and the same is true about an AI. Someone has to take responsibility for what it does. Yeah, I can't get Wikipedia. I've actually got the guy who has my Wikipedia page, you know, who posted it. I've argued with him and argued with him. And he's, I remember at one point, I said, look, bro.

you know, this is not true, like what he said. Yeah. And listen, most of it is true. But there's a few things I'm like, I'm just trying to be accurate. And he said, remember when he came back, he said, Matt Cox is not an expert on Matt Cox. I thought, I try to be an expert. I'm just basing it on the facts.

But, yeah, it's difficult. So there are a lot of disadvantages to AI, which is what I was saying. But there's also a lot of advantages, which is not biased. It's not that bias. And that's why I think it has some room in law, because it doesn't really care who you are. It just is objective. It's statistical, so it's flawed, but at least it's somewhat objective. Like, AI would never say you're not an expert.

Right. Right. Yeah, I'm very interested in the credit aspect of it. For instance, there's, you know, my wife actually has a family member that has some credit issues. and I was thinking about writing some letters, you know, to try and get some medical corrections taken off of her credit. So the way it works is once you open up a dispute, they, the person who put the debt on the credit report has a certain amount of time to respond.

And they're so busy with paperwork that if you just keep forcing them to respond, they'll eventually forget or not be bothered. And then when they don't respond, you win by default. So that's the way that these shady credit repair agencies work. And it's an easy job to automate. It's funny, I moved out of an apartment like a year and a half ago. When I moved out, they wanted to keep my deposit. And listen, I left that apartment as clean as when I moved in it, vacuumed it, cleaned the carpets, painted.

You know, you put stuff in the walls, painted the patched and painted the walls. and they had a whole list of things that they said they had to do luckily I took all these photos but the big thing was I just started arguing with them back and forth back and forth and I wore them down and they ended up it was a it was a it was like a $300 deposit they ended up keeping like $42 or something ridiculous but they were keeping that when it started off they said I owed them $50 yeah it's um half the battle in life is just standing up

for yourself and this is my life philosophy, not everyone has the time or the confidence sometimes to do it. That's why machines can do it on people's behalf. So I have a question when people sign up for the subscription, do they have to pay like a year in advance or is it just month a month? Two months in advance. Two months in advance? Yeah, because that's what we see is the success time for most of our disputes. If you think about like getting a parking ticket back and things like that. Hey, I really appreciate you guys watching. If you like the video, do me a favor and share the video

to your friends and family. Subscribe. Also, we're going to leave all of Joshua's links in the description box, and he's got some really interesting videos on Instagram, so check it out and do me a favor and

leave me a comment in the comment section. I try and respond to as many as I possibly can. And I really appreciate you guys watching. see you we're going to be going over this is real I didn't think this through

scams we admire like I'm trying to be like a clean cut guy well it doesn't mean you can't admire something no it's like you you have a beautiful wife that's true right

but then you might admire another woman you might say hey Cindy Crawford is attractive you know might see another so you can you know

rehabilitate and say that's clever Jess has killed just about every animal there is in Florida oh She's butchered them. She can cut them open, take out the guts, skin them,

and put all the good stuff in a freezer, and then, you know, eat it. She's already told me they'll never find your body. She's like, I mean, I get it. Like, there are girls that cute. They flirt with you. They send you messages. And I get it, and that's great. She says, but I'm just letting you know, they'll never find your body.

Like, I didn't even have to follow up on that. I don't know. What does that mean? What are you? I was just like, as new as ominous. just like got it no problem yeah listen she's got me so scared like when when women you will text me you know they'll text you know they'll hit you up on instagram or whatever you know hey how's it going or wow you're amazing and i'll listen within the first sentence or two it's like yeah my wife

thinks so just in case it's a plant right you know case she's trying to like go right like hey i need you to send something to matt yeah you know i'm like yeah you're like yeah you're You're not sucker. Oh, so you're one step ahead of it. Oh, yeah. That's that mentality. Yeah. That's the mentality like for you people that with cons and schemes,

the mentality of looking at it from the reverse angle. That's what I always call it, too. That'll keep you alive. Yes, yes. Or out of you. You spin it around and you say, you know what? Let me try to see it from the other perspective coming back towards me. Yeah, no.

Nah. I'm not falling for it. Yeah. Good time. So what is the scam? What is a scam? Because there's no one scam. No.

But is there a scam or what scams? A scam like for the definition of this podcast is kind of an idea to gain money. Like I might have an idea like, hey, I'm like I might have come across a checkbook and go, you know what I got an idea? I'm going to write a check off of this guy's account who we don't. don't know, to you, you're going to deposit in your account, we're going to split it. Right. And you might go, hey, I'm down with that. You know what I'm saying?

That is what I don't know who would be. You'd be shocked. Look at you. You'd be shocked. You would be shocked. I know a guy. Yeah. You would absolutely be shocked.

It's unbelievable. But that is a scam. Or even I consider a scam is like the, um, what I'm, was privy to was the shoplifters like I I knew I knew four ladies that did shoplifting right and like I was lucky enough to sit in on one of their meetings you know because they have one person that draws in the security so the other three are actually going to steal and get away and the other one's going to draw security and draw security like act like she's not steal anything be absolutely sloppy obvious so that security

kind of hangs out and kind of watches her. Right. And, and what they do is they come in all separate and then they all watch her to see as she, oh, yeah, she's being watched, let's go. You know, that is a scam, you know, because they're working. A well choreograph.

Yes. Yes. Well, something that's pre, I was pre-planned, but I really, I want to use the legal term premeditated. That's when you know you've turned, turn to corner. Yes. When you start using the, that's right. We start using the legal term.

Yes. The law enforcement terms? So premedit, so if I told you, hey, I'm going to write you a check, this is premeditated. Whereas I could have just wrote you a check and said, hey, I'm going to give you a hundred bucks. I need you to cash. I could lie. Right. But to put everyone in on it is the scam.

You know, me, like, we're all working together to obtain money. That is what we call a scam. Yeah, yeah. So that's what we're, because what happened was scheme. Scheme? scheme really isn't illegal by the way the term scheme yes that's that's what I was thinking scheme is is is is to me legal right scheme seems singular like if you use the word scheme it seems like it would only be one person really yeah a scheme seems like so then in my mind

a scheme would have a a mastermind you know which means like that one One person is the ultimate benefactor and all, you know, I spent a lot of time in jail thinking about the differences. So, does it reflect? I think, whatever, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're synonyms. Anyway, whatever. So. Yeah. So, yeah, like one person benefiting.

So you got the little benefactors. I would say. So, so that. A scam is a group effort. Like, hey, I got an idea. Okay. So what, what, what, what happened? I disagree.

But what happened? And what, I don't understand. So you, that's the scam you admire, the one where they're shoplifting? Or just you admire the fact that they drew law enforcement away? Yes. Yeah. Because of the brilliance of it. Like you, like, you would say that only because I'm given the simplicity of it.

Right. But to watch that in action because it works. So the, the one person that's the, the draw, the person that draws the attention, actually gets stopped at the register. Right. And what's so funny is that they're not in any jeopardy at all. No. And the other people leave with pre, like they have orders of stuff going in.

It's unbelievable. They have orders of stuff going in. And the one girl stopped at the register. Oh, and she gives them a sob story and cries. And then 20 minutes, you know, they're texting on the phone. And it's like they're going to let me go. And then they end up letting them go with a, hey, don't ever come back in this store. Right.

But the whole time, it's like, okay, we got like $6,000 worth of stuff. You're saying she really does steal stuff and they get caught or she... She gets stopped at the register. She makes it look like. I was going to say like to me, like in front of them, you could, like with the camera, I would kind of show myself like putting stuff in a bag and then move to a spot and then take the stuff out of the bag. Oh.

Do you what I'm saying? Like to me, you get up to the cash register and then they'd come and they'd grab you. Oh, no. Empty your bag and you'd empty the bag. You'd be like, what? They'd be like, holy Jesus. Like I saw her. Like I could see that would be.

would be right and then they have to let you go it's like what do you talk oh yeah yeah no I did put a skirt I did put the skirt in there and then I realized oh wait a second this looks bad I got I need to I took it out and then I thought well I don't even want this so I just left it on the counter it's over there you know so but I was going to say what that reminds me of is the um you know the Romanian wall you it was called the Romanian wall where they had there was people from Romania or the gypsy wall they called it too so people would go into like and they had they had video of 7-Elevens and stuff where people would there would be like six or eight people would come in in a group and one and so the person at the counter let's say 7-11 would look and see

this group moving in and they create almost like a wall they're just kind of bundled together and somebody else would walk in crouch down and walk in behind them so the camera you know sees them but the other camera sees the person but this is just this guy's not watching the camera he's watching these people right so they come in and then they kind of move through the store they have kind of a direction where they're kind of walking and moving and the one guy somebody says hey something to the to the cashier and he looks over here and the person who's bent down who he doesn't even know in the store kind of like moves towards the cash register he's right there and so as these guys are talking he's moving around the cash register and literally they have video hey we know you

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Conditions apply. Of these guys where the guy will be, he'll go behind the cash register. with the guy and like go into and steal like all kinds of stuff that's back there that's hidden while these guys are loud and they're playing music and they're talking and banging stuff and doing this and he's kind of just watching and watching steal stuff go back then they pull the wall back together and the guy walks out with them and all they've bought is like a stick of gum and he walks out with you know whatever hundreds of dollars of cartons of cigarettes or there have been times where they've gone into the safe there's been times where they said like they took it a gun they got a gun how that that even then later they'd look at the camera and they'd be like oh my god and if you watch it you're like this is insane watching that in play the know that that's choreographed because like you have to wonder do they practice that they have to practice right like it's if you watch the videos on youtube and stuff you're just going this is nuts you're almost like how could he not and you're like okay I get it but from his perspective he's not

sing he's only seeing these groups of people and then once the guy gets under the counter he's done he would have to turn around and start looking at the videos that are shooting from the other way and who's doing that he's trying to see if these guys are stealing and they are they're not they're stealing they're a distraction yeah unbelievable that reminds me that's that's that's what i'm saying it's the same kind of thing right you're just drawing their attention um to a way and that's that's a that's a scam yeah do you remember I shouldn't even say this. Do you remember when we were talking about...

I'm thinking Barrington, but go ahead. No, no. I'm thinking when we were locked up and we were talk about the identity theft scheme, where it was like, what if someone stole somebody's identity? Like, I steal your identity. right um which given that you're a man of color would be difficult but let's assume i steal your identity i get a driver's license in your name i run up all your credit cards i then borrow money against your house the whole thing but i happen to have a life lock do you remember this so this was

what we were what we used to joke about and it was it was and then when suddenly you start getting the credit cards, the whole thing. Like, I would do that because I'm not worried about him. You know, the worst problem would be that the person you're stilled their identity finds out and calls a police, but I know he's not going to call. What's going to happen is once the first credit cards start showing up, you then call the police, hey, look, I got an issue, man. I got like a $40,000 credit card bill.

Someone took my credit card. You call your credit card company, you do this, and then more bills start showing up. You start going, oh, whoa, well, I need somebody. to come out of it. Like, I got like $100,000 in credit card debt. Somebody stole my credit cards. No, I don't know. I have them on me. I don't. Or maybe I lost my wallet, but I didn't give anybody my pen numbers. Like this is ridiculous. And so you do all that. You run it all up. Then you find out maybe there's a mortgage on their house or somebody took out a $50,000 personal loan in your name. You're like, oh my God. So we were talking about like you run it up

to a couple, $300,000. Like it's insane. You're calling the police. But the interesting thing about that Was it what we were saying? Well, what you were saying, really, was you were like, but I know what's going on because I can call the police and say, well, do you have any leads? Well, what's happening? Well, what happened with? And the police would be like, look, we're doing it.

We found this. We found this. There was a P.O. box that was opened. Well, who opened the P.O. We can't find the person that opened the P. So you're going through the whole thing, or it was an abandoned house. It's actually in your neighborhood. What?

You know, but you would know because at some point, they would be, they would say, look, you know, we're just out of option. We don't know what to do. And you're also involved because the credit card people are contacting you. Right. So at some point, even if there was a prosecution, the worst that could happen is you were saying you would, you could say, look, I'm not going to participate in that prosecution. I got my money back.

The credit card companies paid the money back. And we got the thing with the mortgage taken care of. And I don't want any trouble with who. I don't know who you arrested, but I don't want any trouble with that person. And then being the person, if they did end up getting arrested, I could then say,

man, I'm going to trial. And they don't have the victim. They'd be like, Jesus, knowing when the prosecutor comes in and says, oh, listen,

this guy's going to show up. He's going to testify. He'd be like, is he? I can't wait to see him. We had this whole thing laid out. Right. And,

oh, the other one was, the whole, the, um, the identity theft, the life lock, was that you could also claim against life lock to say... You could sue for allowing all that to happen.

Right. Because, but when we were locked up, you and I thought, and I know differently now, but we thought, remember they say up to a million dollars, it was a million dollars in legal fees that they would pay to fix it.

We were thinking that that was like insurance that they would... Right. Like they would pay off your car. credit cards, or they would, but they won't. It's just, it's just, um, they would just call and file the claims for you, which would still be good because, because you could still say they could do all that for you. You have to do nothing.

Is that what they, is that all life lock does is just file the claims? Life lock and, um, home title lock, they will hire an attorney that will file all the paperwork to reinstate your credit cards, get the balances dropped to, I mean, Now, home title lock only does it for mortgages. Life lock only does it for identity theft. Okay. So if you had both of them, which you probably have to have. Yeah, but you could really insure yourself completely against the whole thing.

Yep. But when we were locked up, we were thinking they would pay you. They would pay you, but they won't pay you. No. No. And the thing is, too, it's like it's a service. It's not insurance because they just don't insure you. Right.

So, but they will pay for the fees, which honestly is the biggest hurdle if something happens. Like, you're trying to, like, you got like a 40, 50 hour a week job and you're driving back and forth. Like, when do you have time to write all those letters and try and fix all this, you know, if you're a real victim, if you're really our victim. Like, that's the problem. Like you got to write letters. You got to send emails. You have to make phone calls. Like, man, I'm working until 5 or 6 o'clock.

I don't even get home until 630. Right. Then my kids are screaming. I got to make dinner. I got, you know, like, when do you call anybody? You got to start taking days off work to try and fix it? Yeah. Yeah.

No. Count me out. So a couple of the schemes that I admired, you know, I think we talked about one of them, which was the, what had to do with the Kellogg's. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I admired, you know what's so funny about that scheme is that came to me at a phone call. My wife and I are sitting at the house, and I don't know what.

we were watching, but somebody called and go, hey, they call up and they go, hey, they got you on television. I go, what channel? NBC. I go, me? They go, no, they got the kind of crap that you do. So then I turn it over to NBC. And it was a, it was a, I think it was American greed. But what was happening, it was showing a guy that was cashing like $100,000 checks. How's that even possible? That's what I was, I'm like, oh my God. So what was happening was, there was a oil, um, rig somebody worked for an oil company in Houston and this woman was seeing the checks come in to pay the oil company and what the guy had done was he opened up a similar company with the oil with with the name of the company like he went to

another state open up a company that had a similar name as the company that was receiving the checks so if we were paying an oil company if we were Matt and Zach's gas station, we might write an oil company a check for like $300,000 for a shipment of oil. Well, the woman that worked in the office was giving that to her friend and he was depositing it into an account he started that had a very similar name as the oil company. This is what they're putting out on American greed. So like my wife and I were sitting there watching this, right?

and we looked at each other like why didn't we think of doing it because here's what's funny here's what we were doing at the time I'm sorry that's so wrong it is it's a horrible horrible honey can you believe that

no it was one of those moments where we're sitting the reason why that happened is because what we were doing at the time is we were making checks So we would go to mailboxes, business mailboxes, and steal the mail at night. We just looked for checks.

And what we do is we'd find a check and then I would make a check payable to someone off of that. I was just looking for a fresh account. So we were finding all these business checks. In fact, one time, remember we found a $100,000 check. Right. I'm like, geez, man, I wish we could cash that somehow. You know, and that's what was happening.

We see all these checks and we just make a duplicate check for like $4,000 or $5,000 in deposit. in an account with somebody and just get the money out and run that was our whole deal so when we're watching television and they go hey he was actually cashing the checks that he was getting for their full amount you just looked at each other like can you imagine if we had known this with the $100,000 check like chase what's I was going to say what's funny is people don't realize like you can open a corporation and then you can open up a DBA or a corporation a corporation similar.

You could say, like, let's say there's, you know, this drink, what? Ghost energy drink. Then you could open up a corporation that says, you know, that's ghost, you know, that's ghost, you know, ghost distributor. Ghost distributor, ghost productions, ghost energy. Ghost energy, you know, drink, too. Yes. You know, whatever. Like, it's like, you know, you know, of Tampa Bay, you know, of Florida or whatever.

You just adds anything onto it that changes it subtly. And then the next thing you know, you can go open up a. bank account in that name and deposit checks, you know, with that name or any, any, any variation of that name because the banks just don't check. They, you know, who it's going to, the address, they don't even match the state. They just look at the name and, in process. Yeah, I used to have a company, you know, consortium financial services. They would write consortium mortgage. This is people paying me. Yes. They'd send me, oh, consortium mortgage, consortium bank, consortium whatever, you know, home loans. It's like,

it's consortium financial services. Sometimes it would just be consortium. You just deposit them, deposit them. The bank never said, oh, wait a second. This is an issue. Yeah. And so it was, so we obviously, we did that, picked up checks.

We probably did over $100,000 in checks when somebody called us and said they had a friend that worked in Kellogg's. That was a story that I shared. And that's how that whole scheme developed. Yeah, we did that whole, we did a whole, that video got a lot of,

views. That's the Kellogg video. The Kellogg. Yes. So when we called the girl, you can imagine like we were dancing. Because when we called the girl, I asked her, she goes, oh, well, I work up in the office and I see the checks. I said, okay, well,

how much is a check? She goes, probably the smallest check is probably like two and a half million. What? It's like, I go, it's over. We're done. Our fraud and days are over. Seven,

million dollar Kellogg's game yeah selling no stealing seven million from Kellogg's yes that just sounds um yeah yeah that got like 70,000 views wow it's not bad for my channel and that was like a year ago that was it we a year ago it must have been just just before yes right the incident yes the horrible incident so yeah that that's what led to that discovery because we had we started of all the crap we were doing, we added that to our reputore and just started making money. And that's when the girl from Kellogg's came into our life and gave us a possibility of getting a $7 million check from Kellogg's. I remember telling I'm like, we're done. Seven million bucks? It's over. We give the girl a million. Yeah. You know. Yeah. You're not doing it. You know what's so funny

is like my mindset back then? Like it was never going to be over. I used to always say like, man, if I just got a few million dollars. if I got a few million dollars I would have said that was easy you think it didn't know well well yeah you're right you know it was it was it was the whole just like that stupid thing I was just making it's that quote it's the there's there's nothing there's just no feeling in the world like walking in a bank handing them a fake ID and some fake documents

and then having them hand you a check for $250,000 and thank you you for ripping them off like i mean that's just insane yes and that feeling you're like like this is insane right like i'm gonna walk in there and then or even thank you and telling you what a great customer you've been like i i borrowed like a couple hundred thousand dollars one time and i was hate i would say this because i had a guy who like read my book who came back and was like you said you borrowed a couple hundred thousand dollars in the book it says you borrowed $120,000. It was like,

whatever. I don't remember what it was. $150,000, $200,000, whatever it was. I had borrowed it in the name of this a fake, it was a real person, it was a homeless guy. So I borrowed that money

and then, and he had perfect credit. Right. So got to check for, let's say $150,000. Went and deposited it in my bank and immediately, as soon as I did it, the person goes, okay, thank you.

They went. Oh, you've been approved for a $30,000 credit. card. And I went, you mean pre-approved? She says, no, you've been approved. Of course I've been approved. I just deposited a check for $150,000 in cash. I mean, $150,000 into my account. And I do have perfect credit. You know, that guy had perfect credit. And she said, all you have to do is tell me you want the card and we'll have it overnighted to you. And I went, yes, I do. A free 30 grand for ripping you off? Absolutely. Hand that over. See, the problem is that's how you and I

look at it as a free 30 grand to them they're like it's a credit line you're like no no no that's not the way this works i promise you it's free there's no payments getting made no i promise you it's free yeah but i won't be once they catch up with me behind this show right now though i'm walking up out of this mug i got a sports car i got a hot girlfriend yes amen going on some vacations yeah right up until they put them cuffs on me. That's right. Then it's unfree.

But I'm going to Australia. Listen, if I was a cop, you know how much fun I would have. I'd be like with with a couple of guys that are like, you know, what they're saying, you know, like, no, no, I, I, but I, I can't, you can't arrest me. I, I'm like, stop it, bro. We got you on video. Do it your co-definance rolled on you. Oh, you know, damn. well you'd play along you're like oh oh you were going to australia hold on let me get the keys

to the cuffs yeah there's no way you'd be like come on bro we got you on film it's kind of like my arrest with the oh what is your name um albert henley Albert henley you have ID of course I have ID here you go yeah all right anyway then there goes another charge now we got aggravated identity that he just looked at it like you're good Wow. Here you go. Come on. Let's go.

Come on, Albert. Okay, Albert. Let's go. You're going to jail. We're not going to arrest Isaac anymore. We're arrested Albert, guys. That's right. Oh, my God.

Good times. Getting arrested is not good times. Maybe so. Get out of it. It's fun looking back on it. At the time, it's not fun. Oh, no. There's like everything spins in your hands.

That and the time when you get your time in court Immediately I just got a job at McDonald's Immediately I shouldn't have done none of that stuff Yeah immediately regret every single thing And then you know but then you get out and six months go by And you're like listen

I just heard Yeah but you You have been sitting in jail for the past two years Yeah but doesn't mean I'm not I've perfected it. I've got it perfected. I've got it perfected. I'm going to do it right this time.

Yeah, insanity, insanity. Insanity thought. All right, so another hustle that I liked, if we gave back on topic, I hope you don't mind. All right, another one I like was a guy that was selling clean air credits. Oh, yeah. You know me telling you about that? Yeah.

Yeah. So apparently there is passed by George Bush, clean air credits for all the companies that spit pollution into the atmosphere, what they do is they make them invest in companies that actually take pollution out of the atmosphere. It's just the right thing to do. Yeah. And so they created a, I didn't even notice existed until I watched. Apparently it doesn't exist.

Oh, it still does. No, I'm saying based on what your guy was doing. Oh, yeah. That's what they're probably all doing. You're taking all that carbon and all this stuff out of the. the air. Come on. Stop it, bro. Like, no, no, we're planting trees. The planting, planting tree. And for, for poop, people who process or help

disintegrate manure and stuff like that into fertilizer, that actually cleans the air, believe or not. But I'm going to tell you, like the clean the ocean. What's the name of that company that sends out those bags for, we take gunk out of the ocean? Have you seen that, those commercials for them? No. I don't watch a lot of TV, though. Oh, there's a company, there's a one big company out there that cleans the ocean, that they claim to clean, cleans the ocean. And they go, oh, we're sponsored by so many, you know, people helping us out, helping us clean. We take donations that most of their money, I heard this on NPR, a majority of their money comes from the clean air credits. All companies that pollute the ocean pay them big time for going out there and taking gunk out of the ocean.

So with those, so those things are still around. What it was I didn't know is that there was a marketplace for the balance. So if corporations that dirty up the air obviously have much, much more money, right, than corporations that actually clean the air. So the corporations that clean the air actually sell clean air credits to those companies. And they have a certain amount that they need to have. They actually fight and bid. It's a bidding war.

It's like eBay for the clean air. Because sometimes it goes up depending on the demand. So obviously the schemer, I don't know why I just pictured, I just pictured Christi's. I just pictured a bunch of corporate fat cats on a stage. You should have seen the episode, bro. Behind the auctioneer at Christie's. And in the crowd, it's nothing but hippies. And they're all like, you bastards

300,000. I'll go 300. I'll go 280. I'll go 260. You know, and they're, you shut up, Jennifer. They've got their combing their hair and they're wearing flower. Yeah. You're, you know, making beautiful, baby. There's a band, you know, the monkeys are playing the background.

You remember the monkeys? Yes. I love the monkeys. But anyway, yes. this this schemer obviously got approved by the EPA but what he did was he rented a place rented the equipment I can't remember how he fraudulently told him he was cleaning the air

they came over the EPA gave him the seal of approval once he got that approval he went on the cleaning up everything down yeah well he leased the machine listen when they came and checked him out he he wouldn't he because they would announce we're coming in two weeks oh you are yeah I need at least another couple of machines and he bring them back yeah in the warehouse around back get us some hippies out here and some tree huggers to do like we're doing like we're do-gooders American greed was cursing them up and down round up 50 do-goaters

we're picking up trash on the side of the road you bastards but exactly American greed was criticizing the EPA for approving him three times he was checked out all three times he passed like yeah he's doing it selling clean air credits I told you what caught him was he had this pension for expensive cars he bought like three million dollars worth of expensive he had like a Lamborghini not a Jaguar but a what's the other cat car cat car I want to say it's another car it's like a hundred thousand not a Lamborghini, but it's another $100,000

car. I can't know what? Lamborghinis are like 3,400,000. Oh yeah, Ferrari, what? May a Ferrari, but he Maserati, that was the other one, that was the other one. He had, he had about over like

$4 million, $3 million with the cars parked out by his house. It would be like someone pull in and you have $3 million in cars, like in he was in a regular neighborhood like yours. And you just come up and you go like, dude what the hell is with all these expensive cars hey I'm just living like that yeah I'm just

so they call the police just that's how he got caught doing the right thing yeah that's trying to clean up the planet that's how he got caught the police come and he's got all the paperwork for the cars and they're kind of like okay and they hands it over to I guess a a detective or a fraud investigator who kind of runs the guy and he checks him out like the EPA calls and makes an appointment right he checked him out without an appointment like um I don't know how you're selling all those clean air credits sitting in this empty warehouse but I'm fin to tell somebody so okay so he told the EPA and well yeah I think they yeah and then they brought him up on he only like when it all came and down to it I think he got like

three years in prison, but he stole like about $8 million, $8 or $9 million. I'll do three years for $8 million. That's what we ought to have a bit. They didn't even know, they didn't even understand the charge, it was crazy. It was like a unique, they had to charge him uniquely because there was really no crime

of what he was doing, like false statement type of charge like the 1001, like the beginning of a charge is making a false, giving false information. That was a charge. And that only carries three years, so I guess they, he got nothing. But go ahead.

I'm sorry. No, I was thinking, I was just thinking, I was thinking, I was thinking, during the Civil War, you know, they were conscripting people, right? So either you had to show up or one of your, you ever, your family, right? Or you could say, hey, I can't do it. I want to, you know, fellas, I want to. I'm with you. I want to be with you can't be with you

I got to do the farm I got to do the whole thing but I've got my slave John he can go for me and they would say okay well put your mark here John and John would put his mark and he'd be in the army I thought

what if you were super rich and you're going to jail and you were able to say listen I know I got four years I know I got three years I can't go but Matt will do my time for me and then I have to compensate Matt to do my time like bro you know I would I would I'm ready to sign up like I'll

do what kind of first in the custody level like oh no you're going you're going to a pin oh Matt how much for the pen listen pens 150,000 a year 200,000 a year I'll do four you I'll do four years do four years for you but you got a you know but it's going to be a million dollars up front in my lawyers you know you could you imagine if you could negotiate that and in a way you're, I think I know what you're going to say. In a way, people do. You can. I'll tell you an incident that I know about, but go ahead. Oh, I was saying, I was going to say, I sat in county jail one time wondering if it was possible to get someone else to do my sentence. Like, I, like you were describing about the you being me. Yeah. Like, like, I told myself,

how much would it disturb the system if I've allowed someone to become me and they just go turn, hey, I'm Isaac Allen. Well, no. I mean like if there was actually a system. Oh, you mean like a legal system. Legal capitalized, legal capitalized, look, you've got to do this much time. You have to give us this much time and say, listen, I'm not going to. But I've paid this service and they're going to provide someone that will do that time for me. And they go, okay, do you have the paperwork?

Do you have an SS12 form? Yes. Do you have a 722 form? Yes. Did he sign? Do I need your driver's license? Oh, I got my driver's license. Like, okay, boom.

And he goes in for you. Like, makes me think of Palmer. He'd be. Right. There are people that will do that. But they would do that. And here's an example of that. A real world example.

We used to call this guy the, they used to call, they were calling him the Mexican Tony Soprano. There was a cartel member in Atlanta that had gotten like 15 or 20 years, right? Like he's got like seven lawyers. And this was in Atlanta City Detention Center, right, ACDC, where you could, you would meet with your lawyer in. in the unit they would walk in

into a room and it was like a glass room like there was a glass wall and well you know a glass you know it's the metal piping with the thing

you'd walk in there with your lawyer or whoever and they'd close the door and you'd sit there and have a conversation he crews

like five six lawyers showed up every time to see this guy he had tons of money his cellie just to let you I'm just saying this is the kind of guy

he was you know his sally was a black guy that was complaining because his baby's mama's car had broke down and it just blew like the engine blew right and he went he was yeah he said give me your address i'll get her another car somebody drop a car and he's just no man you don't understand he's like no i understand she needs a car he's like are you serious he said yeah man yeah this is a guy that every time commissary came like his bag was full and three other guys bags were full that he was buying people like that Right. So, meaning he's putting money on other people's commissary accounts to buy him stuff. And they get 20%. Right. So what he did was, oh, by the way, that guy, like when that whole thing happened, I remember like three days later, he got a phone with his girlfriend and said, you're not going to believe this. We were sitting there.

I remember we were playing chess or something. Oh, this is a true story. Oh, it's true. The black guy came up and he was looking for his cellie, right? His cellie was, I forget, he had been moved for medical, he was coming back. He was like, bro, remember he said he was going to get a car? He said, Mike, I got a phone two hours ago. Some guy showed up with like a, it wasn't a brand new car.

It was like a five-year-old, like, you know, Accura. He's like, I mean, things got like 30,000 miles on it. He was like, I mean, he just gave it. He signed over the title and everything. We were like, damn, like Tony did that. He was like, yeah. You know, he had a name that was, you know, definitely scream mafia. Yeah.

No, I mean, they called him Tony. He was the Tony Soprano of, but no, he had a Mexican, a Spanish name that was difficult. You know, it wasn't something like Jesus. It was, it was a hard one. So, and anyway, so what happened was, I remember, too, watching my Dateline episode with him. We were all sitting there watching the Dateline episode on me. And I was sitting there just shaking my hand. I kept looking over at him.

He said, you're a bad boy. You, you know, you're a bad boy. So here's what he's. had done. He had paid a peasant, right, in Mexico to come over through the border and told law enforcement who was there and how much, and that he was coming and he had this much dope or whatever in the car, gave him the type of car, the tag, everything. They saw him, they grabbed him. Boom, 5K1. Then he said, so the second, that was one he was doing. So now he doesn't now he's already down to like 15 years or something he was supposed to get like 25 he's down to 15

he had already arranged it and he'd been in the jail doing this he had arranged to have a guy fly over and land at an airport like a makeshift air you know makeshift airport in Texas and the DEA was going to grab him and he was going to have X amount of pounds of pot and that guy was going to and I was like how much time is it he's like oh no the one guy he gets five he got five years we make sure he you know my lawyer in mexico make sure that he has the just enough to only get five years and i take care of his family the next guy was going to do 10 like guys are lining up to come to do his time for him so he could get his sentence reduced wow yeah i i was just like you know that was listen Atlanta was right but i mean that's the kind of money he had there was

a guy in Coleman that got this is a guy who we're talking about he's like one step maybe maybe one step below um el choppo when he was running things right is actually the person who's running the cello was el chapo and el mio right everybody always says al chapo or chalfo of el mio's low profile he's really the guy that started the whole thing and brought in el chavo the point is is that like one guy there's one guy beneath him and the guy beneath him that was the guy i was locked up in Coleman with this is an AC this is another guy that guy had remember the old

photo books you could buy yeah the old ones that you couldn't sell I don't know about where you were but in Coleman you they stopped selling the big ones they were too big I know what you're talking about but he had the little one or the big no the big it was a big one I know you could only buy the little ones when I was there but there were guys that still had

the big ones huge ones right yeah exactly like they were like three pictures across and three pictures down back when there were these things things called photos that you could actually print out and they were actually photos and he had books full of them he'd done like three or four years and he still had a few more years to go and this is the kind of guy that got caught on a conspiracy and got like a life sentence but had worked it all the way down by giving up low level guys that knew what that was going to happen

like he sets them up like they're being set up on purpose and they're saying okay so you're going to load 300 pounds in the in the trunk and I'm going to drive through here and they're they're going to arrest me yes and then it'll take a couple months for you to get sentenced to six months for you to get sentenced and then you'll get five years and then we already got sure a lawyer that'll show up make sure you're going to get five years you're only got the you only got the maximum amount to get five you can't get more than five years and you don't have any priors you're going so anyway this guy had done the same type of thing and he was going to a he was at a low already and he was going to a camp he had photos of him in

Mexico where he had to do like so many years ago he had done like two or three years in Mexico it was insane the photos he had they were allowing him 10 days a month you can have your family come and stay with you in the prison they had a special spot America yeah it was insane plus you understand that so many days a month you could have other people come at like he literally had prostitutes prostitutes come in and they're staying the night like they're walking him to the cell, stay in the night. He's drinking. He's drinking cores and he's got America has the, if you talk to anyone that's been abroad, America has the most harshest penal system ever of all of the world.

Maybe Russia, Russia might be. No, no, because I met somebody in jail in Russia. Well, I've met some guys that, trust me, there's not in the world, but there's three or four, there's probably, let's say there's five, five or six other countries that are really rough, but rough meaning, so the conditions are, the Mexico conditions are horrible. Right. It's like a city. I understand they're horrible, but in some ways they're horrible, but if you have money. Yeah, the freedom is.

But so in some ways, it's like, what are you talking about? You're letting people bring them food. And yeah, they're allowed to bring so much food. They're allowed to bring so much. They're allowed to come see them and stay in the cell with them for three days straight. They're allowed. It was like, that's insane. And then, of course, but if you're poor and you go to Mexico, it's horrendous.

And you're, you're sleeping in the hallways. So it depends on what, I guess, what type of a criminal you are and what your, what your ability, you know, to produce, you know, or have money is. So, but I was going to say when we're back to the scam, sorry. Well, I only had two. I didn't know if you. Oh, listen, the scams that I admire are like. You know, I do, this is horror. If you remove the victims, you know, I do admire, like, Ponzi schemes, guys that do

do Ponzi schemes, which is really, it's just, they're just blatant liars, you know? But if you were to set up a Ponzi scheme, here's what bothers me about Ponzi schemes, is that most Ponzi schemes, and I don't mean most, I mean like 90s, 9% of them weren't set up as a scam. Like they were set up as a legitimate business that very quickly goes bad. Sometimes they go do great for six years, 10 years. Sometimes guys set them up and a year and a half later they're like, wow, man, like I'm not good at this. And, you know, where they set it up as a legitimate, let's say, I'm going to, you know, of course the investors always get in trouble.

Like it's a hedge fund. They make a couple of bad, they have a bad quarter, then they lie about it. they, oh, I'll make it up next quarter. Then they have another bad quarter. Right. They lie about it. They have another bad quarter. They lie about it.

Then maybe they have a good quarter, but it's nowhere near good enough to recoup the losses they've had. Then they have another bad quarter. And they're just continuing to tell everybody they're doing well. And they just keep borrowing and borrowing. And before you know it, it's like, so, you know, how off are you? Well, you know, I've lost $5 million. You know, I'm supposed to have. 50 million in you know the coffers and you know and I don't you know I'm paying out this much money

because I've lost this much money but I told people that I made 11 million dollars so wow so you're off by by 15 million dollars that yeah you know it's and then it just keeps it spirals out of control and then they just try and maintain it as long as possible so you know if you remove the fact that the people that they're typically taking the money from are just regular people you know the ability to do that and set it up and maintain it for a long period of time is is amazing to me you know that's that to me is is well what scheme are you thinking about because you know like made off comes to mind made off does what bothers me about made off is you know like he did it in his name like he was just he's just an idiot like well he didn't like you said he

didn't start off right take money you know um like give an example um the like a couple of the the ponzi schemes where the guys the i can show you how to do mortgages you know like you know i'm talking about all those people that go take buy my system oh yeah how to um buy houses i'll help you buy houses or i'll put the down but you find house grant cardones type yes him yeah you know those type of Ponzi schemes now those were Ponzi schemes because Greg Cardone's not a Ponzi scheme like when you're I thought you were talking about two different things like he's not running a Ponzi well he may be I don't know well there's one that was a Ponzi Ponzi scheme I've seen those people get arrested all of them like and I never really understood what they did wrong but they said it was a

Ponzi scheme and I you know a lot of times they typical here's the thing I've noticed too like I've talked to a lot of this guy Red Bull they said he ran a Ponzi scheme it was a business opportunity scheme but they're actually they would like it's like people know what a Ponzi scheme is so a lot of times the newspapers simplify it right does it make sense yes um so yeah i i i hear what you're saying you know you know really there's so many schemes that i'm just i'm not impressed by as much as i'm just disappointed by it's like you had something that was legitimate and you ruined it because you didn't do this one thing you know or right um i i i always thought that it really this was like a legit like i said it was

a legit i don't know the guy was like he basically was giving people a credit card so it was like hey you give me fifty nine dollars right and i'll give you a a credit card worth three hundred dollars and i'll report to the credit bureau so it's a way to help clean up your credit right And then he gives you a catalog that you can buy from. Well, everything in the catalog is jacked up. You know, it's all like this is stuff he's getting from China for $15, and he's charging, you know, $150, $200. So everything you can buy is really just, it's horrible.

Like you buy one thing and he's not out of any money because he took in $50. It cost him $15. Even if you never make a payment, then it doesn't matter. He's not out of any money at all. And if you do make the payment, well, that's great because eventually he gets, the $200 back. The point is, is that was a guy,

there was a guy in Coleman who had done that. And it was kind of like a business opportunity thing that he had just kind of set up. Right. The problem was, he said,

you know, I set it up, we started running with it, started doing well, started hiring people, people are calling, we're calling, we're getting people in,

we're doing, we're doing great numbers. He said, but then I turned around and he went to, like, Equifax and said, how much for me to record

these every month and it was too much right he they wanted i don't remember the number is let's say they wanted like oh it's like twenty dollars a person he was like that's insane i'm not gonna and then they said well you don't have enough if you have this many people like you have a thousand people then we drop it from 20 down to this much if you dollars per month per month then they were like if you do this many if you have over 10,000 people then we drop it down to it's eight dollars like you have to whatever it was. It was an outrageous amount of number for it to get down to where it was almost nothing, right? Where it was cents, which is where someone like Bank of America is.

Like, it cost him almost nothing to report. Right. But he wasn't there. So he figured, okay, that's fine. At the rate we're going, we'll be over the thousand. It'll cost $8 or whatever it was. I forget the number. And he said, but, you know, but by the time we got to the thousand, like, nobody was complaining.

You know, he said, like, nobody, like, even people that called and said, hey, it has hasn't shown up yet, we were like, well, yeah, you have to make a few payments before I should. Trust me, we were, it's right. He's like, like, he said, and a lot of people would just stop paying. So it's like, they don't say anything at all. They don't want it to show up. Right. And he said, so six months, a year went by. Right. Now he's just telling, he's just telling people, oh, we're reporting. Where are you pulling from? Where are you? Like, they just, oh, yeah. Then, and I was like, down the downward spiral. Right. But at this point, you could pay. He's like, I know, I forget how many millions he. He's like, I know, I forget how many millions he.

ended up making five, six million. I mean, he was just tons. And he's dumping money into, he's like, you know, advertising, paying this, it's like, but you're making millions. Yes. You're telling me, you made, if I had a little scheme

that I was running that was making me two million dollars, and for me to make it legit, I have to spend a million. Yeah. Even if I had just a million out of my two, half. I'll spend the two, the million to keep a million. Yes. He wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it.

So within a year or two, it catches up with them just a jerk off you know and then he gets arrested and then of course they go in front he's got hundreds no sorry thousands and thousands of victims so what he thought was okay it's a few million dollars i'll do a couple years ended up being ridiculous it was like six to eight years or something because he had so many victims yeah because you do you remember that the the federal sentencing guidelines like if i have zero to ten yeah they changed it they changed it now But when I got sentenced, yeah. Zero to. What I'm saying is... No, it's five. It was five, wasn't it? No, it was more than 10.

Right. No, it goes up in increments. Well, yeah, 10 and 50. Right. And then it goes up again. It goes of like 150, 250, and over 500, something like that. Like, it keeps going. Oh, wow.

When I got sentenced, it was more than 10. Then it was more than 50. I think it was up to 250. Up to 250 or more. They changed it. They changed it for real. I got slam. Well, so what happened with him,

him was like let me let me put it this way let's say i stole a million dollars from two people like i sold a million from you and a million from you i don't get an enhancement for that like i don't get it let let i don't get an enhancement for the victims because but if i stole you know twenty dollars from 50 people i get this massive enhancement it's like wait a second I stole next to nothing from these people. 20 bucks a pot. That's nothing. That's not going to change their life.

These guys wiped someone out. They're like, I know, but they have more victims. It's $20. Like even if it, and it's less money. Yeah,

but you have more victims. Yeah, but that's not like their, their logic is skewed, but that makes sense to me. If, because chances are the 20 bucks are from poor people. and you wipe out rich people

So if it was $900,000 from an old retired woman Yeah, you're right So you know It doesn't it doesn't balance They were trying to change that There was like an amendment that That I forget fam had put up Or somebody they were trying to

You know they never do change them But they were like when I was We were getting these letters like hey we're put this This is going up They're going to change this and this and this And like none of it passed The problem with the feds is None of it's retroactive

Yeah even if it would be new people Which, which you want to kind of say, you know, like, okay, so I already stole that money. You know, you don't make anything retroactive. Why? Why should have to pay those freaking people that already stole? So you're like, oh, well, this is wrong. We'll change it. But we're not going to let the people who got screwed by it.

We're not going to unscrew them. So I got caught with a pound of marijuana today, and I got a year. Right. This guy got caught with two pounds on Tuesday. And he gets nothing. Right. Because now it's not illegal. Yeah, but when you did it, it was illegal.

Yes, but it's now not. Right. I get it. Can we let me, can we make it that retroactive and let me out? No. Absolutely not. No, you're a criminal. He didn't get it from a pharmacy either.

I know, but it's, he got it from the same guy I got it from, you know. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. So, yeah, they never made any of those victim changes retroactive. but like for me the the Ponzi scheme I agree I think it's someone losing control of a specific situation like all the all the infamous all the famous ones that I know about it's just kind of like you get off the handle do you remember and I'm going to say this completely wrong

where it's not even going to be probably valid I probably shouldn't even try it but there was one guy that was offering a pill that was supposed to make your penis larger course of Of course I do. And he goes, hi, meet, meet Dick. Yeah. And he would do that. It was so, yeah, you know, he got, yeah, he got busted. Yes.

Because, like, I'm going, what kind of, like, when I saw that, like, I immediately, now I'm in jail. I immediately ran to the law library to look that up because I'm like, what Ponzi scheme could he have pulled off? Wasn't a Monzi scheme? Yes, it was. No. Because, oh, it was dishonest. It was a Ponzi scheme. No, it was just, because you couldn't cancel it.

Right. It was just, that's not a Ponzi scheme. You know what a Ponzi scheme is? It's Ponzi scheme is when you're giving me money where you're taking from new victims to pay old victims off. And it eventually coll, yeah, you're serious? You're killing me. A Ponzi scheme is where you give me $100,000. And I say you're making 20% a year.

And you go, okay. But really, I just spent your money on a Lamborghini, you know, and a new house for me. And then when you say, hey, Matt, I need to get $100,000 of that back. I say, oh, okay, Connor, give me $100,000, I'll make you 20% a year. And you go, okay, you give it to me and I give you $100,000 or $20,000, whatever your proceeds are, I'm taking from, so anytime you pull it out, pull out, I'm giving you money that I'm taking from Mary Shelley, from Connor, from Jess, from, so other people are paying in. And I'm anybody who says, hey, man, I'm using it for what you're supposed to use it for.

Right, right. So anytime somebody said, you say, hey, I give you $100,000. and it's been five years, it's now worth $300,000. I say, oh, I got it. Here's your $300,000, but I just took their money to pay you. And when he asked for his money, I'm taken from Bob and Jim and Bill to pay him. And so what happens is it's okay. It functions okay if more people pay in all the time.

That's what Social Security is. Social security is people. It's a legal Ponzi scheme. Yes. Because they're pulling it from everybody's check to pay out people that had paid in originally. Yes. Solvent. But the meat, Dick, and Jane, yes, that guy.

Yeah, what was it? So, so what, you know, I know this whole scam. Well, you know what it was? You had to, oh, go ahead. You tell it. Okay, so here's what he was saying. What they were saying was, well, it's a money back guarantee. Like, you pay for it.

If it doesn't work, we'll give you your money back. And it didn't work. No, no, well, of course it doesn't work. But his whole thing was when people said, I want my, man, I paid $500. I want my $500 back. It's been six months. I've been taking this pill. I'm out of pills.

And nothing ever happened. And my, my Johnson did not get bigger, which you promised. Right. And he said, okay, well, all we need is a letter from your doctor, showing that prior to you taking the pills, you were this size and now you're, you're still the same size. And that the pills did not help you. So just get us a letter from your doctor. You can prove it. We'll give you the money back.

Who the hell? Like, I didn't, if you read the fine print, we have to have proof. So, well, I'm sorry, but I didn't go to my doctor. and get him to measure my junk before and after. So they're like, well, I'm sorry, then how do we know it didn't work? Look how small my junk is. Exactly. Do you imagine people are taking pictures?

Here's your money back. Look at this. Some people are like, here's your money back. Does this look like my wife is smiling the way that chick on the commercial? Right. Yeah. So as a result of that, they ended up. So it was unfair business practices.

It was false advertising. It was, we got to look that up, because how would that be even a federal case? Just, uh, because he's doing it across state lines. He's doing it all over. Ain't, you know, still in from thousands and thousands of, you know, little penis men, which needs to be protected. Which is embarrassing itself, you know, I'm seeing it all lined up in court. Yeah, I still got nothing.

Yeah. It's upsetting. I wish, what is that? What is the name? What was the name of the, of the, of the, the scam? Right? My phone's been going off. Scam involving making your penis big with a pill.

Find smiling Bob loses his fortune and his freedom. And newsloist John London has more on the male enhancement kill scam in this story. It's new tonight at 5.30. Hi, John. Hi, Sheree. He was blinded by his own arrogance and greed. that is the bottom line tonight from a federal judge who hit Steve Worshack with a 25-year prison sentence and a $500 million fine.

If he's still in. Smiling Bob bumped up against the face of federal justice today in a case about greed. That's how Judge Arthur Spiegel puts it. He's giving Steve Worshack 30 days to get his affairs in order before heading for 20-plus years of federal prison. This was the perfect storm of consumer fraud. He had a group of consumers that wouldn't want to come forward and say that they'd been ripped off. Warshak started Berkeley nutraceuticals, which was rated on suspicion of massive fraud. Federal investigators say consumers were ripped off, $100 million worth of ripping by way of those

enzyme ads. That promised greater sexual satisfaction. According to the court, it delivered deception instead. Judge Spiegel telling Worshack he preyed on the sexual inadequacies and vulnerabilities of consumers so as to keep massive amounts of money generated by fraud. Attorney Jim O'Reilly is using this case as Exhibit A for his new book, Corporate Criminal Sentencing. As we spoke, the viability of the entire company rested on the size of the federal fine upstairs. Managements all the time are making decisions that are bet the company decisions. He happened to bet on consumer fraud. He didn't get away with it. Warshak's 75-year-old mother got a two-year sentence. Other defendants faced the music tomorrow. And late today, the Berkeley Corporation was fined, $15 million, those running

that have three months to pay it. It is not known tonight if they'll sell. or even if they'll be able to continue to operate. This ain't no result. I'm a newsroom down London, news farm. I'll tell you when I get home. A hundred million dollar fraud. And he did nine years? Nine years.

Could you get somebody to do it for, could you get somebody to do the time for? Mine was, uh, my fraud was $100,000. I know. And I got 16 and a half. And my judge feels like that just simply wasn't enough. But it wasn't, was it? No, it wasn't. It wasn't enough.

And on top of that, you had an extensive criminal history. Yes. My lawyer. Did you see that look? My lawyer called me a consummate, consummate criminal. I had to look that up. Consumet criminal. Yes.

When I read that in the transcript, I'm like, what the heck is that consummate mean? Did you go, stop? It means perfect. Nice. I like it. I'll never forget that. I'm reading it in a transient. Mr. Allen is a consummate criminal.

Did you say, Your Honor, if I was consummate, would we even be having this talk? If I was a perfect criminal, we wouldn't even know each other. Certainly wouldn't have been in front of you all these times.

Over and over. Like at this point, what's his first name? My, yeah. Who? My judge? Yeah.

James. Like at this point, you basically walk in and go, Jimmy! what's going on what have you been up to you know what I've been up to that's why we're here can't stand that

let's not go there all right so do you have any other schemes that you admire besides the little dick and guy you know there's a rapper name little dicky

really yes there's a rapper or there's a guy he got a TV show now doesn't he yeah there's a black Zach guy too black Zach

have you ever punch in your thing like this is this is the first thing that comes up oh yeah then this comes up then you come up

but the first guy is way better mix you too have you listened to the song no why what is it

is it one song I mean he's got 18 have you listened to it Yes. It's horrible. No. It's Xandadu quality. You've already got more views than him.

Yes. I want to copy him. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Check out the other blacksack, everybody. Oh, it's bad. Oh, it's horrible. I told you that.

Look at the booty on that chick. Look. You see, he's got the glasses? Yeah, it is. I can't dance. Oh. It, it, it, look. Look at him.

Look at him. Come on, put this up. Get him some view. Get him some subscribers. We need to have some subscribers. The other black Zach. Hold on. Connor.

It's actually not bad. Why do you think it's bad? Are you serious? Play that thing. I don't think it's bad at all. It's just good as any of the rap music I've heard. He's got a whole, he loves it too. He loves what he's doing.

Here it comes. Dude, it's horrible. I'm like, what is this? No way. I hope this doesn't get copyrighted. Oh, yeah, he takes it. How many songs? He only has one song or does he have multiple songs?

No, he's got a, look, he's, look. So he's got, oh, no, oh, he's got, look at it. Tell him to check out my channel. We should, you should come back to Matt, like, thank you very much for subscribe. That's how you should close it out, the other black Zach. Speaking of illegal, speaking of schemes. What about the other black Zach? Like the guys whose name I stole.

What about, listen, I knew a guy in Coleman that was a concert promoter that promoted several concerts. Right. And then, and people paid, whatever, a couple hundred bucks, like, I mean, radio stations, everything. And he was promoting concerts for people that weren't, like, these are artists that are like, well, what am I going to be in Michigan? What's going on? Like, he'd take them and they put the money, they'd send in their money, and then they would, promoter would take the money and then they would come out and say hey it's been postponed postponed like on the tickets it says like hey if there's you know weather and this and that

were postponements you you'll understand and he kept he would postpone it like 60 days then another 90 then another 30 then 60 and then they just drop away they just fade out just and he kept your money right kept your money by that one your money's way on um yeah so he uh but he did a whole thing it eventually caught up with it he was in coleman with us and when i got out he Listen to this I always forget about this This is hilarious So when I first got to that

This is a whole sidebar thing So when I first got to The Halfway House Do you remember how How Which halfway house did you go to The one on

Tampa, the same one you did Okay So you know They were tricked Right Like they were like Like they're checking you You come in

And then they do the Not thoroughly But yeah Rule wise yes Rule wise yes What I'm saying is when when so for instance people couldn't just show up and like for instance and they they told you give you did you get the little speech when you got there yes like if you have don't friends come over they

have to be you have to tell them they have to sign in they have to this like don't have somebody come meet you in the parking lot right like that's an issue like if they saw you they'd violate you like hey some guy just came by where they'd search you like what's going on you stood out there and talk to that guy for 20 minutes and you know that sort of thing you know hey that that That's an illegal this, whatever, stand there. We're calling. Like, they'd violate you. You'd go spend 30 days in the county jail.

So they, to me, they were strict. Like, they had made you clean all the time. If you didn't have a job, you're cleaning all the time. Like, they made you want to get out of that halfway house as quick as possible. So, and I was there for seven months. You know, you were there. You were at a job. Yeah, I know, which I'm saying.

You, you were on home, you got on ankle monitor right away. You were out right away. 30 days, 30 days. Yeah, 30 days. I was there seven months. So, were you in there whole seven months? The whole seven months. You never got home.

confinement? You didn't have a home? I didn't have a home. I can't say with my mom. Oh my god. Seven months? You and Jess, right? No, Jess got out within 60, 90 days. She was out. Oh, okay. Because she had her dad's. Oh, okay. And the only reason that took so long was like he had to get like a landline. Like, he didn't have a landline. He's in Mayaka. He's got a cell phone. Who the hell has a landline? Right. So anyway, the point is is that when I got, I got there. I had been there two weeks. I get there. I'm keeping my head down. I'm just doing what I have to do. I get there. And probably within a week, guys are walking around. One day, all of a sudden, within like a day or so, I noticed, guys are walking around looking at me, looking at me.

And then one day I walk by a guy sitting on the couches. Remember the couches in the middle, in the day room? Guys watching, he's watching my, this is when my American. and greed was on Hulu. He's watching it on Hulu as I walk by. And I hear the whole, and I'm like, I look over and he's sitting there watching. I look, he looks up, he goes, he just smiles. He was watching. I was like, you know, I was like, oh, man.

So then I walk and a counselor, not my counselor, is actually, he was Jess's counselor, this black guy. He walks by and looks at me, he goes, Cox, so saw you on TV last night. And I went on, on what? And he goes, he said, on American greed. I was like, oh, man. He was, yeah, yeah, you need to hold your head low. Like, he was like, give me, he was laughing about it.

Like they were, but I said, who else has seen it? And he goes, oh, we've all seen it by now. We've all, everybody, like all the staff member had seen it. So that had just happened. And now the inmates are starting to watch it. Right. And I'm not saying anything. I'm just trying to go to working back, right?

Like, I just started my job. So then one day I'm sitting there on the, sitting outside on the uh or not outside i'm sorry sitting on one of the couches in the day room playing on my phone or even trying to figure it out and a guy comes up to me this guy that was in coleman with goes up he he says you got to come outside real quick there's a guy outside wants to talk to you and i went what he says there's a guy outside wants to talk to you and i went who tell him to come in he's not he's in a car he needs to talk to you and he goes you need to come outside and i went all right all right so i get up i was like the fuck's going on i don't know anybody

Nobody, the only people that know I'm even here is like Treon and I'm working for him. Like who stops? And nobody's stopping by the halfway. Who knows where the halfway house is? Right. I walk outside. Remember how everybody used to stand outside and smoke? Yes.

There's like 20. Yeah, exactly. There's 20 guys standing outside smoking like this. Staring. The guy that I told you about, the concert promoter, is in a white Lamborghini. With the top off. his girlfriend is driving the car, blonde, blue-eyed. I walk out, and I see him, and I walk over and he goes, he goes, Matt, Cox, he's

come here, come here. I walk over and I go, hey, what's going on? I barely, I kind of recognized him. He'd sat through my real estate class a couple times. We'd had lunch a few times. Like, I don't really remember him that much, but he remembered me. He said, hey, man, I'm so-and-so. I was in your real estate class.

Do you remember me? And I was like, yeah, man, what's going on? Like, I kind of remembered him. I was like, yeah, that was like a long time. He goes, yeah, it was a few years ago. I told you I'd look you up. He said, I looked in the, looked you up every once in a while I would look, go on BOP. And I saw that you were going to be in the halfway house.

He said, I knew it said, Orlando. You were going to be in Orlando. He says, oh, I checked and sure enough you were here, I told my girl, we had to go by. He said, man, do you need anything? I said, no, man. I said, I'm not even supposed to be talking to you, bro. I said, like, they got videos. Like, you're going to get me violated.

He goes, well, how can I get you talk to you? And I said, man, I said, I work at a gym, and I told him the name of the gym and this. And I'm sitting there talking to a guy in a Lamborghini in the halfway house parking lot with all these guys smoking cigarettes. Like, what the hell is going on? I go, but honestly, I can't. I said, I work at a gym. It's called, you know, Cultus 24-7 fitness. So look it up, 24-7 fitness.

I'll be there tomorrow. And I turn around. He's, all right, I got you. I got you. And I walked off. called me like two days late two three days later he called the gym talked to me got my phone number came by the gym we talked for a while pulls up in his Lamborghini yeah

I was just like like this is not this is my life like you know I know this is insane you know I've met a month since since I went to prison like I've met four or five guys that have Lamborghinis yeah you know I've met two yeah it's it's outrageous like I didn't know people before where were these people before and when I had money you were in a low yeah I'm I'm in a pen and a medium yeah there shouldn't have been no guys with a Lamborghini pins and

medium that's insane those are violent guys it's none of them no oh one of you introduced me too which was the guy you sent me to Miami for the one with the liquid oh yeah yeah yeah he pulled up in his Lamborghini I'm like what the yeah yeah good time And the other one is who does my daughter's hair. Oh, okay. So, yeah. Now, these are all like prison guys with Langerie's, yeah.

Well, no, no, not all of them. Well, you know, prison is the great equalizer, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Because Conrad Black was at Coleman Lowe. Yeah. And he's a multi-billionaire. Yeah. Oh, I've met, there have been a few billionaires.

Listen, I've met like three guys. I want to say something I think I feel like it's three guys I know for sure it's no it is I think it's three guys that worked at that worked at NASA three guys that worked at NASA that I met that that worked at NASA that were all in there all of them pictures I'm not saying I'm not saying I don't know what if there's a correlation there but the fact that you meet one person in real world that worked at NASA is odd like Like, how often does that happen? Even if you lived in Florida, that's odd.

To meet three, listen, the, the, the military dorm, my buddy Pete said the military dorm, out of the entire military dorm, there's like 32 to 35 guys that don't have charges for pictures. Out of 150 guys, there's, what, close to 120 that are there for pictures? I just saw that I just saw that in the paper the other day about a raid and with the pictures didn't I show you when I got the message

where it comes through like hi my name is such and such I want to talk with you no I get that all the time I get where it's just a random text it's like hey hey John or hey Sally and you're like

this isn't Sally oh what's your name stop it stop it I don't know what you're doing I don't have time for this foolishness I wouldn't even I don't even respond to those I'm talking I get a text message or or a messenger request

I told you about that one time and like hi I'm 16 and I'm like oh my god right no I don't get that far like I have gotten well I know because I'm like oh she's pretty let me get it oh oh slash the stand jump start jumping on it yeah I just got a random text just now probably coupled with a picture

my name is just no um it's to me all that that's in entrapment that like yeah oh we gotta put those out to get the hell out of here man I read somebody I read a case

would that happen to some I'm trying to remember what was the circumstance behind that I remember a case that there was a first time that like the guy because supposedly in the federal system entrapment is not a defense

like they don't want they don't allow you to say I was in trap simply because that's what they're doing because that's what they're doing like I hate it when you use what they're doing against them so so this is a guy that owned a piece of land that was right next to a piece of a federal park right like a national park and the park wanted to buy his land and he for 20 years or something he refused to sell it and suddenly some new park administrators had come on board and they were talking about expanding the park and they were like well this is the park that we want and

And they were trying to, like, say, we're going to take it. And he was saying, you don't have to have it. Like, you can't use eminent domain to take my property. It doesn't benefit the public enough that you need it. You've already got 400,000 acres of, you know, of land. Like, it's just stupid. And he wouldn't sell it. And so suddenly he started getting these emails for a website for pictures.

and he deleted it and then it came again two days later deleted it then another one came and deleted it then another one came

and every day we're talking about every day four or five a day of these emails saying to visit the website very specific saying what it was this went on for 90 days this guy

this guy like it was something like close to a thousand times deleted it finally one day he clicked on it he said i he said i didn't know how to make it stop i'd hit the note stop to unsubscribe i this and they showed they proved it he'd done all this one day he finally clicked on it he clicked on it and it's it's something basically he said i flipped through some pictures you know he said very quickly maybe five or ten pictures he said got off the website click the unsubscribe and deleted it thinking maybe that will work like it was kind of it was something along those lines he's trying to finalize it like get rid of this there was like a 60 minutes about this only reason i know it it was like a 60 minutes 60 minutes or 20-21 of those and so and i could be botching the story slightly but what ended up happening was he gets arrested like three days later they indict him and and come and arrest him and during the negotiations they're telling him like hey look like you to plead guilty um you know like they're trying to get his proper

They're trying to use seizure to take his property. He's saying, what are you talking about? Like, seize what? That has nothing to do with this. And I don't even know what happened here. Like, I was trying to get rid of these things. So he goes to trial. Even those lawyers saying you're done, you're done.

People have no, they're not going to look past the fact that you clicked on it. He goes to trial and he wins, which was insane. Because he did click on it and he did look at the images. And that's all the law says. But it was enough that his lawyer had put together. enough of a defense to say it's outrageous how many times they they hammered him and bombarded him with this and so he was able to win an entrapment style claim right and he ended up winning but it was a it was and they showed also that they were that the FBI was targeting him very specifically like yeah they were they were trying to get him himed up so that they could get a hold of his land somehow get some leverage now they were never able to get a specific person or anything but it was pretty clear and they he ended up winning it.

Good. Right. But, you know, like you said, like, but. Surprised he didn't end up going to prison anyway. Right. But that almost never happens. So I'm saying, the idea that he could win that defense, it almost never happened. Never.

So that's an example that. I tell you another time, a guy was buying a guy, I knew a guy that, and this was pretty well documented too. This is like totally off the subject. But anybody watching this. that's watching this far would probably be interested. The point is that this guy had, he was buying credit card information.

And the guy said, hey, what about getting some pictures? I think we all know what kind of pictures we're talking about. And the guy said, hey, man, I sell pictures, I sell videos,

I have pictures of this. And he was like, oh, bro, I'm not interested in that. I'm trying to get, you know, you advertised on this website that you had credit card information.

Like, that's who he thought he was contacting. Right. And it, somehow or another, He, it wasn't that. Like, they were like, well, we don't have that. He ended up getting an FBI agent that was getting this up doing the, you know,

and grab, trying to get people to be interested in this other thing. So he ends up saying no, no, no, no, no. And finally the guy says, I have bootleg videos of new movies and I have the credit card information you want. So he says, okay. Well, so he says, well, so he says, well, The bootleg videos were just like bootleg videos from movies. So he dropped the other thing. And then he bought it.

They sent it to him. He gets it. In the information they had put, they had put like JPEGs of photographs of young people. They indict him, arrest him. They come and arrest him, grab his computer, he's got the images on there. They showed that he did look at them for a few seconds apiece, but in his mind, he said, did I look at them? Yes. He said, I didn't know what they were because I told him over and over again.

I wasn't interested in that. He did take a plea, by the way. He ended up taking a plea because he said, I was so, my lawyer was like, you're so screwed because the law says if you simply have possession, you're already guilty. They go, and you did have possession, and you did look at the pictures, and you looked at them too long. like if you look at them for more than like four seconds or something or six seconds there's a length of time for you to look at it realize what you're looking at is wrong and delete it he looked at it for longer and then and he didn't delete them they were like so it's still on your computer you didn't try and delete them you're guilty so he just took a plea he got like i don't know what it was five years six years whatever it was for just a few yeah let's see see like and people say like well what do you guys you get so freaked out if somebody's trying to send you a message or hell he'd talk to Bozac Bozac's like he's like

anybody that tries to contact me that I think is even remotely too young I don't it's like boom no no no they sneak up on you I have a buddy my old sally that on his Facebook page he sent me a couple of them like what is this

oh this my girlfriend I'm like hey don't send me any more yeah anybody that looks yes even remotely and what's so funny too is like you could be 25 years old and send me a picture 25 year olds to me look like they're 12 you know like the older you get the younger everybody else looks

so some girl said oh I'm 25 I'd be like this chick looks like she's 12 years old you know so yeah I could imagine me because I hear these horror stories horror stories well you are like I wasn't around them too the ones I was around were probably success

they weren't just picture watchers they're creators Yeah, they were, uh, didler. We had the, we had the hand. Diddlers on the roof. Yeah. Hands on and hands off. Yeah. You know that dude, you were talking to?

Yeah, you know he's hands on, right? Oh, man, are you serious? No, no, no hands on would be there at all. Oh, at your place. At your place. No, at the low? At the low. Yeah, they were there.

The hands on? Yeah. Yeah, these are guys like brought somebody across state lines. I told you, didn't I ever tell you about it. But it couldn't have been a full rape. No, this is a low. right that's what I'm saying oh I don't know about the full that this is somebody who made the attempt or was actually showed up someplace right the ones that I saw were absolutely hands on oh yeah oh well listen there was a guy in Germany who flew from Germany to the United States thinking he was meeting like a 14 year old boy or something flew all the way there and it's legal in Germany by the way like the age of consent was like 14 the boy was 14 he flies all the way over here gets arrested and says hey I haven't done anything wrong. I was in my country. They said, you flew

to the United States. He then goes to the German consulate and tries to get help. They wouldn't lift a finger for him. He's like, it's not illegal in Germany. And I didn't do it. And the other thing was in Germany, like, you didn't do anything. To him, it's like, I just showed up. I didn't do

it. In Germany, you would have to have done something. They were like, nope, 25 years. America, America, when America tells them, like, we're keeping this one, you're Yeah, the consulate's kind of like, oh, well, there's nothing we can do. Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah. I don't, anyway. I mean, not that he's not a weirdo, but. Is he a weirdo? I mean, you know, you get to a point where it's like everybody's a weirdo. Everybody I met was just like odd, you know, it's like everybody, you just meet people. You just, you know, it was so, I hate to say that I would, you know, started to try and figure out what people's charges were. Like, I, you know, and they would lie.

You know, they always use fraud. they always say what you hear fraud man you mother why can't you say something you could pull off because you know very quickly it's like oh what kind of fraud credit card fraud you were charged with credit card fraud yes charge of chargers they actually said credit card fraud yeah it was credit card fraud

because there's no federal charge for credit card fraud so it had to be access device fraud it had to be like like if you're going to lie about my field of expertise learn something research that's right Like, you can't say, like, you know, cannabis. I was receiving cannabis in the mail. Say that.

You don't have to know anything. Well, you know, I will give them credit. Like, if they're at the low and they're saying fraud, that's actually security level appropriate. Because most of the time, drugs are medium and up. Right. There were some of the guys that would work their way down from the medium to the low. But, yeah.

I'm putting it for drugs. They probably felt like they get called out for drugs. It looks too fast anyway. Yeah, well, I don't think they, it, listen, it doesn't matter. You talk to these guys for, for 10 minutes. And anyways, after 10 minutes, you're just like, no, man. I don't, I mean, even if you talk to talk, like, I'm sorry, bro.

I don't believe you. You're not a drug out. You're not here for that. Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. Well, I got all the lingo or that. Stop it. I've been watching them. Yeah, get out of here.

You can start. You can start. You, bro, I'm, it's all I think about. The ones that you. envy is that what that's oh listen I hear scam are we recording okay so I hear scams all the time where I see it I read a little article or somebody tells me about their scam or I'll see I'll see something on the news and it's just like oh man like if they just did if they didn't the problem with most people is you read this scam and you're like that's a good scam like

what went wrong like he did it in his own name yes or he did it in his sister's name or his one of his buddies like what are you doing and or and then it breaks down where you're like why didn't they just open a bank account in somebody else's name or in a fake person's name or in a you know a homeless person or whatever's name and dump the money in there and remove it and you're like well and then I always have to remind myself like bro not everybody and this is going to sound arrogant has your skill set like not everybody can figure out how to get a driver's license in somebody else's name or an ID or whatever Not everybody's multifaceted where they like they just have a scam and they like a pit bull and lock on it.

Right. They're like, I could probably make, I could probably make $10,000, $20,000 on this, not realizing, okay, you could make $20,000. Yes. But three months from now, you're in front of a judge or you're just getting handcuffed and you're waiting to be in front of a judge. Yeah. And then you do six months or a year and now you're on your probation and then you start looking back on it. You go, Jesus, God Almighty for $30,000 or $20,000. I just put a year in jail.

I've spent a year in jail. I lost all my shit. People never realized like, going to jail, who gives a shit? I don't give a shit. I'll go to jail for fucking six months. If I can come back where I left off. The problem is you're coming back.

You've lost everything. And what's even worse is that the people you know are the ones that took it. Yes. Like nobody came in and boxed up my shit and stuck in the storage unit. Even in their garage. It's pilfered. You get absolutely robbed. Everyone's taking everything.

You see somebody two years later. you're like, hey, Jimmy, what? Is that my shirt? Maybe. I got it from Goodwill.