Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - AMERICAN GREED | The Bonnie and Clyde of Mortgage Fraud

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

AMERICAN GREED | The Bonnie and Clyde of Mortgage Fraud

Last time, Zach and I did a review of the Dateline episode that was on me. And now we're going to do a review of the American Greed episode. In this episode of American Greed. He had millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and more millions. Come on. I like it. I mean, I like it, but I didn't have that myself. I got to get out of here. I got to leave. You know, you want to come. The Bonnie and Clyde of Mortgage.

You asked her if she wanted to come. See that hairline? Yeah. See that here line? Yes. Bad. Is it? At that point, I really did.

I thought they'll never catch me. In Tampa, Florida, a young man named Matt Cox is making a killing in real estate. He has fast cars, lots of cash. There's always a pretty woman at his side. Part of his character was like this mystery man, like this mysterious, like who is he? James Bond, kind of this... of this. Allison Arnold is new to Tampa.

She's recently divorced, struggling to raise a young son. Allison meets Matt Cox. With it, I know. It's horrible. Get on food stamps. But anyway, go ahead. He had a nice place. He had really nice furniture.

He was just really well connected. His friends were all young and successful. I thought the mortgage business was it. Matt Cox is a mortgage broker, real estate rehabber, and overall Renaissance man. Renaissance man. He's a talented artist who paint elaborate murals in all his properties. And he's obsessed with stories about con men.

He loved going to the movie theater, and we would go and see movies like the one that I fell in love with that we saw was the Italian job. To us. And he just loved that movie. He's like, I did love that movie. And they got away with it. You know, he loved when people got away with it.

Don't break my heart You told me you were through After this I am I swear you Like his I love that scene Have you ever seen The Italian job

God it's been a long time What he calls his daughter And he's like I'm in I'm in Venice But he says I'm in Italy I think He says I'm in Italy And she's like

She goes with your probation officer's permission Right He's like Yeah you know I like the guy It's just not gonna work out Yeah We never really got along.

Yeah, you know, I like the guy. Yeah, I do. I love that movie. I love Oceans 11. I, of course, love Catch Me if you can. I was going to ask you about that one. Oh, my stickman. What about Reservoir dogs?

Yeah, but that's not really a con. That's a bank job. Good point. Heroes in the movie. Matt Cox dreams of doing one big score and then going legit. Here's the plan. he'll assume fake identities take out multiple mortgage loans

on properties he doesn't own did you want to do one big job and get out? Yeah, well, hold on. They're just not starting from the beginning. All I wanted to do is get a million dollars and, you know, that's not true. But you said it.

No, no, they cut this up. Oh. You know, so at one point, it was like, I want to get a million dollars, you know, and then they clip it along like a distance. disappear. But I also keep in mind, I already had several million dollars. So it's like, you know, I want to do this one thing, get a million dollars, and they just clip it up. Since we're on the topic of identity theft, have you ever gone online and searched your name and seen how many

data brokers have your information available for sale? These brokers sell your information to spammers, scammers, and anybody that's targeting you. In my day, I had to go out and either survey people, make phone calls, run ad, to gather. all this type of information, your name, date of birth, email address, home address, relatives information, but all of that is available online through brokers. That's why I use ORA, the sponsor of today's video. Orra automatically shows me the brokers that have my information and have it available for sale, and they automatically fill out an opt-out request for me. Cleaning up my information helps reduce the amount of spam that I get and protects me from hackers who could

Use that information to get access to my social media accounts, my bank accounts, and other sensitive information. Recently, AT&T revealed that over 73 million customer records have been released on the dark web. AT&T is recommending that those affected use stronger passwords, monitor their account activity, and consider credit freezes or fraud alerts from credit bureaus. Well, Orr does all this for me. And best of all, I don't have to download several different apps just because of company couldn't keep my data secure. If my information was compromised in the AT&T data breach, I wouldn't be worried because Aura is always on. It's always protecting me. I value my privacy

and yours. All you have to do is go toora.com slash Matt to start your two-week free trial. Also, we're going to leave the link in the description box. I was telling Colby about you in this case. So here's the thing. My plan was get, you know, you get a first. not, I didn't want $10 million. I wanted a few million dollars. And I was, I had a development company and we're buying vacant lots and we're building new houses. And I was doing that. I was doing that. And that was the plan when I was in Ebor City. We were building like three or four houses. We had like a hundred vacant lots. We got. So our whole thing is we're going to pull out a bunch of money, build these houses, sell the houses, you know, and keep churning that money. And then eventually, you know,

you end up like this development company that was started with a few million dollars is now generating its own money. And we don't, I don't have to do any fraud. So that is kind of my plan. When I went on the run, same thing. I was in Nashville. Initially, I was just going to steal a bunch of money and go somewhere I'll steal a bunch of money. Eventually, until I had enough money that I didn't have to work or I could just buy a bunch of rental property and just collect money on the rental property. But I met this chick Amanda, and you'll see her. And she didn't want me to leave. You know, can't we just keep renovated the houses? I said, we know, we could start a development company. We could start building new houses. So that's what we started to do. So my my master plan kind

changed when I met her. I decided, you know what, I'll just stay here and we'll just, we'll just start a business and we'll make money at doing that. So, because I'm the kind of person that if you gave me $100 million, like, what am I going to do now? Like, I'm still going to do something. I can't do nothing. But what's funny is we were, I was telling Colby, I said, well, that'll, I said, what's good is this one part will spark a conversation because I don't think you've ever talked about this. You may have, but I was talking about how, you know, I think in everybody's kind of mind, if you're smart, you're thinking, I'm going to get enough money to do something legit, right? Because you think I can't get away with it forever.

And I was telling Colby that I said, listen, I said, Zach was doing the same thing. Zach had went out and he bought a, or he got a, um, a subway. Was it subway? Dominoes. Domino's. Oh, I always say subway too. Yeah, you got a like a domino. I always talk about it because it was the cheapest option and we didn't go with the cheapest. You went with Domino's. Yeah. So you started a Domino's franchise. Yeah. Right? Like that's pretty. But what was your thought process? I'm going to continue to do this forever? Or I'm going to do this.

Just make enough and invest it back into the dominoes. Like bringing the dominoes up to prominence. Like the, with, I wanted it to be a successful one. So like I was cheating money in order to advertise men at the school, sponsoring games, you know, throwing, you know, start throwing money around the community and make sure your spots hot and jumping. You know what I'm saying? I wanted a little, anyway, yeah, I had big dreams. for the dominoes, but with illegal money and to turn the dominoes into something profitable.

Right. So if you can, you know, like any, well, like most restaurants, if you can go three years, you know, without going under, then you pretty much have a pretty good chance of continuing to be successful. So you just have to dump money in it in advertising for three years. Yep. And hope that it ends up going. But were you thinking, hey, then we'll get another one, we'll get another one. Like, or possibly, yes. And I'll just stop just, and I'll just stop committing fraud. Oh, no, no, I've possibly definitely thought about opening, moving on to multiple locations and opening, wherever it took me. That's, that was my goal. It was like, I'm going to put my heart and soul into this and wherever it takes us, it takes us, you know, but like started off

with, you know, like you said, illicit gains. Right. But were you, were you thinking at some point I'll be able to stop? Yes, I was going to, yeah. Okay. I, like you, I wanted a, uh, a stockpile. Right. You know what I'm saying? I wanted enough that I'm going to invest this and then this is the backup. and we're done. Yeah, that's exactly. That's the whole reason for hiring Mary. It's like, okay, that can keep going and I can just, you know, sprinkle some input here and there and then I can just focus on my dominoes.

Right. You know, so. Which Mary, he goes into what happened with Mary in his story. But yeah, like I didn't think one big score. It wasn't one big score because I'm making a few hundred thousand here, half a million here, 100,000 here. You know, eventually you're going to get two or three million. million dollars. Right, but that's how they started off. They make it seem like they start off

in Tampa. It's like I saying, they skip some scenes because it's in Tampa and they go, here's the deal. Matt was going to get one big score. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I'm like, I go, they skip some. No, yeah, that's not true. But, you know, they're trying to take a 10 hours, 10 or 20 hours worth of material and jam it into 45 minutes. Oh, I'm just, you know, I've never seen this. So that's my issue. Right. Well, if there's more. open a legitimate business, sell paintings or buy some real estate and rent out of apartments or something legit so I didn't have to do anything else. Allison goes to work at Matt Cox's mortgage company, not knowing what...

So that wasn't your plan back then? No, no, this is, so they just took part, that part that I said is at the very end. Right. So they took five years later, six years later. And at the very end, they're like, well, what was your plan? Like, you've been on the run, you're this. And I'm like, listen, I was just planning on getting... like a million dollars, you know, really a few million dollars.

And then just go buy apartments, collect the rent, you know, maybe do paintings, be an artist. Like, I don't know. Like, you know, I'm just saying that. So they thought, okay, great, we can clip that and that gives us the motive. And then we'll run with that because they can't explain all of it. Correct. That's what I'm saying. And they started off in Tampa.

That was never your point. No, no, in Tampa it wasn't. It was definitely a development. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, that's what they do. All right. Let's let them do that. We're going to let them do that.

That's not the only problem I have with this. It's in store for her. Just a few weeks later, Cox calls in a favor. When Allison was down on her luck, he helped her out. He rented an apartment for Allison and bought her new furniture. Now it's payback time. He's like, Allison, I'm helping you and my investors are helping you so that we have your loyalty, so that you'll

do anything for us. I don't know that's a lie. Yeah, that conversation. How did they get her to say that? He wants her to assume a fake identity and apply for a mortgage loan. Not once or twice, but seven times with seven different banks. He's already stolen an identity for her. Right.

So that part's true. Is it really? What? Well, I'm sure you didn't say, I need you to do something. Oh, no, no, no. Let's do seven. No. It's what, that was what ended up happening. No, no, no.

No, what's not true is like, I don't recall, I don't recall having that conversation. Like, you need to be loyal to me. You need to, like, I don't recall that conversation. Like, this is a, this is a woman who is going through a divorce. She was desperate to try and get out of, she still has, because she has no money. She's living with her husband. She's like, I'm living with a guy. I'm trying to get divorced.

You know, I, I'm done. And so she's dating me. I'm like, she's dating me staying the night or staying over, having sex, and leaving, going back to her husband. Like, I'm not good with that. And not only I'm not good with that, but, you know, look, she sees that we're making money. She knows that I'm making money. She knows I'm doing fraudulent activities. And, you know, she's like, look, you know, I need to make some money.

How can I help with what you're doing? Well, you really can't. Does that make sense? Like, so I've got a, I've got a system here. for me to for you to enter into the system and take a piece when I don't need you like I've got a system that's working and we're making hundreds of thousands of dollars every month the only thing that you could do is I could help you run a con that's maybe different from mine my scam was great I buy a house I buy a house cheap I do minor renovations I record the value of the house five times as high as I bought it right let's say I buy it for 40 or 50. I get it to appraise for 200. I have a synthetic identity come in and borrow money into the house, make a few payments, let it go into foreclosure. I don't need you for that. I already have the fake buyers. I already have the houses. There's nothing you can do.

Now, and the great thing about that scam was that once the house was foreclosed on, the bank doesn't realize they've been scammed. So I can do this forever. I don't need you, or at least, I can do it for as long as I need to pull out that money and then I just stop doing it because it's it is semi risky right like who knows what could happen now i didn't believe that at the time but yeah i thought it was full proof practically but because every time i got caught i got out of it but i figure look at some point something might go wrong and i don't want to do this forever i want to take this money turn into a development company so she comes and says look how can i make some money helping you i don't need your help so i said look here's what we could do we could just set up a

whole another scam and get like a million dollars right and so we'll buy one house in this in a fake identity's name, refinance it seven times. We'll get about a million dollars. We'll split the million dollars and then we'll let it go into foreclosure. But the FBI is going to show up and they're going to look. Like in my scam now, nobody shows up. Nobody knows there was a scam committed. Obviously, that's not what happened ultimately. But that's what I told her. I'll have you do one. And when the FBI shows up, we just need to make sure we've covered our tracks so well they can't pinpoint you or me or anybody. Perfect. She's perfectly okay with that. And I said, I even have an identity from a woman named Rosita Perez, where a friend of mine named

Susan, this woman, Rosita had lived with her and screwed her over. She did like $10,000 according to Susan. She took like a knife and like cut her furniture, like cut the, you know, just did a bunch of damage to the house and everything. So she's pissed at her. And before, and Susan's telling her, you got to get out of the house. And one day when Susan's, Susan comes home, she's moved all her stuff out and taking a knife and gutted her couch, gutted her fern, just trashed the fucking out. She did at least $10,000 for the damage, broke windows, did everything. Okay.

So Susan's like, but I have her information. She's like, how can I fuck this chick over? How can we get, figure out how I can get $10,000 out? And I was, at the same time, Allison shows up, and I said, you know what we could do. I'll have Allison pretend to be her, buy a house, get six or seven mortgages, we'll get a million dollars, I'll give you $20 or $30,000. and then when it all comes down to it,

hopefully the FBI won't figure it out because I'm positive they won't. Or they'll go talk to her. Huh? Or they'll go talk to the... They'll talk to Rosie to Perez. Yes. She doesn't, if she looks at a picture of Allison,

she doesn't know who Allison is. She's going to be like, I don't know who that person is. You know, does anybody have your information? If they said, yeah, Susan Barker, Susan Barker's not involved. You can look at her, you know what I'm saying? Like, none of this is going to... We're using all drop phones.

Like, there's nothing that leads there. If you came in the office and looked in the office, like none of the loans closed here. There's nothing. And we did it in Clearwater. It's like an hour and a half drive, right? So the point is I set that whole thing up for, and Allison's ready to go. She's ready to do it. And we actually closed several loans.

So I don't know what happens next, but I'm saying that's what. Go ahead. And I was just going to say, and they twisted that to in order for you to. That I'm basically like extorting her. And the other thing is, too, by the way. after he took her out of the chokehold she agreed i'll do it all right well well the other thing they they don't they say she he he got her an apartment got her um and got her a bunch of furniture i did because i was like listen here's what i'm going to do i went and bought a bunch of furniture on credit cards

from synthetic identities right so this guy's got a 10 000 credit card this guy's got a 15 000 let's go we'll go to wherever and let's go buy you a couch go buy you for so we i get a i furnish an entire two-bedroom two-bath apartment in a brand new apartment complex I pay the first and first and second month's rent I put the deposit down because he's got nothing boom you're good for a couple months now so she's like holy shit like I met this guy I fucked this guy for about two weeks and now boom he puts me in an apartment and she can pay for it by the way because it was like back then the rent you know that rent the rent now would probably be two thousand dollars a rent back then was like thousand you know wow so she can pay a thousand dollar a month rent in this place for her

and she's got a son. He can come over. And she's only a few miles from where her husband lives. And she starts the divorce process. So that's where we were. But she desperately wanted, she desperately wanted, um,

to make some money. And I'm, I've got a way where you can make half a million dollars. But it's fraud. It's fraud. And she knows it. No problem. The Perez,

real person who supposedly crossed a friend of his. The funny thing is, is you, look at me. Reempted. I've got. blueish green eyes. I had blonde hair at the time, pale skin, and I was portraying to be Rosita Perez. The bankers, the closer for the title company, they're like, how'd you get this name?

You're not Puerto Rican or Spanish, are you? And my license said I had brown eyes, and I clearly didn't. Maybe Allison looks too innocent to pull off a con. Whatever the reason, the first time she tries it, she's successful. She's successful. She walks away from the bank with a check for $117,000. This is surveillance footage of Allison trying to deposit the check. Okay, you see her hair? Yeah. I was the girl that went to the bank.

Okay, so her hair is dark, dark brown. But the day before the closing, she actually, I don't know about the brown eyes thing. I don't think that's true because I don't know that I wouldn't have. I made the license she walked in with. Right. and she opened up a bank account. But she had blonde streaks in her hair. So she goes and turns it brown with all these blonde streaks.

I remember you didn't like that. You're like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? Like, look at the picture on that. It's almost black. It's dark, dark, dark brown in the photo of your ID. And now you walk in with blonde hair. Like you already don't look Puerto Rican.

And now you're walking and you've got green eyes, you know. So it was more that I think the hair that I was upset about. on the license it didn't say I do not recall it saying I don't think I can't imagine I would have said brown eyes because she doesn't have brown eyes right and if it did and it wouldn't have anyway I made the license I would have made brown I would

have said green but anyway so but it was definitely the hair was a problem and I gave the check to the teller I would say okay deposit this into my account and then I would go slowly to pull the money out week after week supposedly we never got that far the check wouldn't

clear the bank because the driver's license was fake. Allison tries other banks, but none will take it. Yeah, she couldn't open a bank account. Though this scheme is spoiled, Cox says it given up the dream of doing one big score. Living the rest of his days on a beach in the Caribbean. Yeah, this isn't, yeah. Yeah, but this part, look. All you ever talking about.

Out there. And what he wanted was money. Money, money, money, money. He didn't care who he hurt, who he stepped on, or what he had to do in order to get it. Matt Cox and Allison break up, and Cox goes looking for another woman to play money to his Clyde. He's very, you know, charming. In the beginning, he told me how much he cared about me and loved. Okay, I don't believe in that.

The charming part's true. So, okay, here's, I'll explain this real quick. so do you see how they say oh we couldn't cash the check well and then she's then they they ended but the truth is she was like what about Travis so I had a buddy named Travis Hayes we were doing the same scam in Orlando she says Travis has a bunch of bank accounts let's have Travis deposit the check and I'm saying we're done it's over because what she doesn't mention is she got one check she goes to another title company does another closing at that closing the woman says this doesn't look like you and won't give her the check. She lets her sign, but she says, I'm going to hold the check. I'm going to make some phone calls. I don't feel comfortable with giving you the check right now. I'll call you in a couple days. I'll let you know. And Allison's like, okay, whatever, and leaves. And she comes, goes to jumps in the car. She's like, I don't know. She said I didn't look like the picture, but it was her. The picture was her. She's like, didn't look like, I was like,

fuck, you know, I'm thinking you change your hair. Fuck. So she's like, well, let's go deposit this check. Let's go open a bank account and we'll deposit the check. And I'm like, no, it's done we're done so one we're done and two when we go to the bank they won't open an account for her right so then um so then what happens is she says well let's go deposit the let's go have Travis deposit the check and I'm like no don't you understand that closing we just had is a problem that woman's going to make some phone calls it's not going to be that hard for her to figure she may find out that this is all scam what she does she ends up calling the original owner and he says I didn't sell this house.

He goes, what do you mean? He goes, I, I, my renter's name is Rosita Perez. See, we had transferred the deed into Rosita Perez. He's like, and I have a mortgage. They're like, nope, there's no mortgage on the property and Rosita Perez owns it. And she borrowed, she just borrowed a mortgage on it. And the other mortgage was like 110,000. So she makes, starts making a few phone calls.

They end up pulling her, pulling her credit. They see that there's a bunch of inquiries. from other lenders. They call those lenders. Those lenders say, yeah, we're closing one on Tuesday. We're closing one on Wednesday. We're closing one on Wednesday also. Finds out that this other person, oh, we already closed a loan. We gave her a check for $117,000. So they call the bank and they put a red flag on the on the check. Allison insists, I'm telling you, I want to go and give it to Travis. Let's have him deposit. I'm like, I'm telling you, I feel like it's fucked up. But once again, that was easy for me to say. right i have plenty of money i'm not broke she's broke she's living in a brand new apartment she does have some money right but it's not like i'm giving her i want to say at some point this guy's going to say something like sounds like he was controlling you with the money she's saying i need i'm broke i'm giving her a thousand dollars five hundred dollars a thousand like am i controlling her no i just bought her apartment full of furniture got her two months free fucking rent put down

the deposit got her electric and water turned on like how much am i supposed to do for you. And she's still, give me, give me, give me, give it. Right. So I don't, you know, so whatever. Well, well, before you start. Okay. Now, she gave the check to Travis.

Oh, yeah, gave the check to Travis. Travis deposits it. And then like, she gave it to him. Yeah, Travis met us at the, at the, um, he met us at our at the, at the mortgage place or the development company. She called him or you called travel. Who? I may have called him and say, hey, look, here, I'm going to tell you what's going on.

I explain it to him. And he's like, I go, can you come by? he goes, sure. So he comes by. Well, I think he came by. I said, I basically called him. I wouldn't talk to him on phone typically. I'd say, hey, can you come by? You go, yeah, sure. He comes by and Allison's there and we explain what happens. And Travis goes, well, you think I should deposit it? I'm like, no, I don't. And Allison's saying, it's fine, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. And Travis is like, yeah, I don't see them putting this together, bro. I think you're, I think you're, you're paranoid. And look, I probably was paranoid, right? But doesn't mean you're wrong. So, so anyway,

she gives him the check he deposits it back then you could deposit a check you had to wait you know it wasn't like oh boom it's 400 dollars available right now and tomorrow the whole thing will be available you still have to wait four or five days or 10 days or something so a week later she's asking me like hey what's going on with the check what's going on with the check did Travis call I'm like I don't know hold on I call Travis hey what's going on he is okay let tell Allison to calm down he says I'm not getting any money I got a phone call from the bank manager he said he asked me to come in so he could witness me endorse the back of the check. And keep mind, it's a check made out to her.

She's endorsed it, but he endorsed it also and deposited it. And I said, that doesn't make sense, Travis. He was, no, no, no, he said any checks over $100,000 have to, they have to witness the endorsement. I've, I've deposited checks for fake people for $150, $200, $210,000 into my bank out. I've never had to have them witness anything. And I said, Travis, that doesn't, that doesn't sound right. I tell him that exactly.

And he goes, no, it's fine, it's fine. I said, no, bro. I said, honestly, I'm telling you right now. I think that, I think you're going to be arrested. I think that the cops are waiting for you. She's saying, no, no, no, that's not true. You know, because she's thinking, fuck, I need some money. You know, she's about to get $50,000 out of $117.

She's going to get about $50. So she's pumped. You know, we're going to give Susan 10 and give her, you know, 30 over the next few loans and she'll be happy. We're going to, she's going to, Alison, splitting it she's about to get 50 fucking grand so she's like go sign the check so and i'm as i'm talking to Travis he's he's driving and i go look don't go to the bank go to the cops are waiting for you and i never forget he was bro i just pulled in the parking lot there's no cops here

like they're going to be have six patrol cars sitting in the parking lot right waiting the whole time with their lights on um and i go no no no i yell at him don't go in the bank don't go in the bank and i remember he tells i'll never forget he said you're shaking is boy listen to you bro you're shaking like a little fucking girl. And he started laughing. It'll be fine and I hung up. So it's kind of like, okay, these two are out of control. But keep in mind, too, I look back and I think, well, how come you had so, how come you were so confident? I've got hundreds of thousands of dollars of the bank. My bills are paid. So I don't have to be risky. You know, that I'm, I don't have to take risks like that. And at this point, I'm now, you know, I'm now the puppeteer, right?

Like, if something goes, goes wrong now, like, it's, it's on you. Like, you're the one who's going to get arrested. So he goes in the bank. He gets arrested. They were in the bank. They were waiting for him. He gets arrested. He immediately cooperates and they start a task force. So between because now we've got Orlando, Clearwater, Hillsborough County. So he explains here's what's going on. There's this guy Matt Cox. He's running a scam. He pulls up public records, shows them all the houses I bought that are all in foreclosure. You know, you got a guy named James Red buys five houses they go into foreclosure. A guy named Lee Black buys six houses they go into foreclosure. A guy named Brandon Green buys five houses. They go into foreclosure. He was able to

provide all that information. You could pull it up on Hillsborough County Property Appraiser's website. Think about James Red, Hillsborough County. Boom. Here's a list of them. He can name them off right there and you can see right there foreclosure, foreclosure, foreclosure. Yeah, but what about the other people? Did he know the other people? Yeah, he knew exactly what I was doing. Brack got a big mouth. Like, he knew what I was doing. First of all, he's doing a lot of, he does construction work. So he's doing construction work on these properties. Right.

So he knows, and he knows James Redd. He knows what he's, he was my best friend growing up. So I felt comfortable telling him this, right? And so he knows what he's happening because he's running a scam in Orlando. He's using the name Michael White and William Blue, I think. He'd already bought two houses in those names. He's already borrowed half a million dollars. So he's fully aware what's aware what's going on.

Oh, okay. Anyway, so at that point, so they remove all that. Obviously, they can't go over all that. They just say, oh, the check, they can't open a bank account and it's over. But it's not over. What happened is now what's happened is we gave them check to Travis. There's a whole task force. I don't know there's a task force being going on.

But then they just immediately jumped to, to Rebecca. So I'll explain what. So here's Becky. So she says that she was not in any way coerced or or. I don't think. So other than the fact that, let's face it, she wanted money, I had money. Like, I don't think I had that. So all they got was a struggling parent.

Yeah. I'm not really a strong-armed person. Like, first of all, I know what your weaknesses are. I know that, you know, I'm not saying I'm not manipulative. I obviously manipulated the hell out of her, right? She was in a position to be manipulated. Right. Plus, I'm fucking her.

She sees the money. She sees how long have you been? You've been doing this for years? Yeah, but she's already out on the limb, though. She's willing, oh, yeah, I'll do that. And then it's kind of like, oh, it's blown us stuff. She's like, no, no, no, not quite. Yeah, well, I mean, she's desperate.

Yes, that's the word I'm looking for. Here, let's say, so. Let's go to somebody that's not desperate. Let's go to that. Yeah, no, she's, she's desperate. But what's funny is, yeah, so they just end it here where they say, like, oh, they broke up and that's it. Well, that's not what happened at all. I understand.

We weren't really dating anyway. We just been fucking for a couple of months. Anyway, hold on. Rebecca Hawk is another single mom who, who's fallen under the spell of Matt Cox. Her story does not have a happy ending. But it begins with promise. All of his friends had a brand new car,

gorgeous homes. I mean, and I'm thinking, how the heck is, I'm barely making it. Sure, I'm a single mom, but. Single mom. That's my buddy, Travis. Yep. Diminutive.

Just a mean word. Who's that? Uh, oh, that's Jana Pope. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Look, look, did you see my dog? Look, right there. Yes. Look, there's my little dog. See him? That's Cracker. Oh.

I lived, I lived in a neighborhood, and I owned most of the houses in the neighborhood, right? But it was predominantly a black neighborhood, and Cracker would run around. Cracker, come here. Cracker. So, anyway, what do you all want? This has got to be Janipote. Jana Potte was a Janapote owned her own private gym

She was a full-time trainer Like she trained people She Listen You ever seen a chick with abs I mean she was She was thin

She was probably only 115 pounds But super muscular Abbs I mean just You know I liked a little We both had look superman How cute

I know I know How corny I would never do that now, by the way. He was very persuasive as far as how he handled things and talked to people and got things taken care of. And he was in charge of a lot.

So I liked that. I liked that he could, you know, the way he handled things. You were sitting. Matt Cox grew up in Tampa. He showed an early promise in art and studied art in college. In an exclusive phone interview with American Greed, Cox says he always knew art was no way to get rich quick. I mean, I never expected to be an artist,

because I guess, I don't know, I just didn't think I was ever going to be good enough or make enough money as an artist to survive. His real talent is the art of the card, and the knack for finding the perfect sight. Did you ever paint that, the art of the clay, were single mothers, divorced. They had money problems.

They met him, by and large, on online dating services, where he came across as this sort of smart, well-to-do mortgage broker, you know, who's artistic and really has a great sense of humor and drives a nice car. I think that the women, while vulnerable, wanted a piece of the pie as well. He could tell that I was, you know,

someone that wouldn't tell on him, and, you know, he could, but in the meantime, he's offering me all this money and saying he wants to take care of my son and I, send Bryce to a private school. And I'm thinking, you know, okay, finally, you know, I can, I met someone that... I knew this chick like a month and a half. Before you left. Yeah, with her. And not really paying attention to the, or not wanting... Sensationalize it. ...to what he was doing and how he was doing it. Matt Cox decides Rebecca Hawke is the ideal partner.

He shows her a good time, charmed, and takes her to a movie that could be about his own life. We saw Matchstick Man, and it's about a con. You're a con man? Con artist. Flim Flam Man, Matchstick Man, Loser, whatever you want to call, take your pet. A lot of it was probably me just wanting to overlook it more so than being realistic and thinking, okay, what are you getting involved in here?

In Tampa, a rogue mortgage broker named Matt Cox is assuming fake identities to take out multiple mortgage loans on properties he doesn't own, pocketing the money, and making millions in the process. The year is 2003. In a red-hot real estate market, the con man hides in plain sight. Everybody was getting rich, everybody was flipping property. Jeff Testerman is an investigative reporter with the St. Petersburg Times.

This guy. I was going to say something about him. He wrote about 30 something, 33, 34 articles. On you? He's the one I read when I was in, um, and he suggested things to me. Hillsborough County and I said, I want to meet this guy. And I went to a courthouse and got the documentary evidence to show that he was telling the truth.

Testerman's source says that Matt Cox, the artist, is used to. using a palette of fake names. I called them color-coded aliases. Charles White, James Red, Brandon Green. Matt Cox had a sense of humor about these things. Cox uses the aliases to create sham real estate transactions. There were several that nothing was authentic on the deed. He created a phony buyer and a phony seller.

When you've got that going, you can pretty much do anything you want to with the price and the mortgage. In 2003, money is loose, and so are lending standards. Cox applies for loans online, and he uses his artistic talent to forge any document he needs to support the loan. He fakes driver's licenses, W-2s, checking accounts, And Cox even brags about stealing the identities of homeless people. I ordered a social security car.

I ordered everything. Went and sat in DMV for three hours. And they gave me a driver's license. As Gary Sullivan. It was easy. I don't feel like that's bragging. You're making a statement. A mortgage statement.

A document that says Cox owns a property free and clear. It's signed by two witnesses. Lee Cook and Jimmy Balls. Their characters dreamed up by Cox. Who's Lee Cook? The two witnesses, Balls and Cook. I think Cox's shorthand on this would be, you know, I'm really cooking the books with this deal.

Stop. It really takes balls to do it. No. Oh, hey, he figured it out. That's silly. He figured out. That's not true. To most banks, it looks legit.

Cox can take out more. on a property that he doesn't even own. The person that's living in the property is still making the payment, so it's not drawing any kind of red flag or anything. So that's what he would do. And you just get someone that's working at the courthouse, you know, they're not paying attention,

and you have the satisfaction sent back to you, and it shows that you own it. By the end of 2003, Cox has done 90 fraudulent real estate deals, totaling almost $4 million. Really? You think that's accurate? But at the St. Petersburg Times, Jeff Testament is about to... So it was... Boy, I wish that was accurate, by the way. $4 million would be nice.

I'm saying $90. No, Spouten probably is $90, but they hit me for $11.5 million. Now, when they says $4 million, I probably personally made $4 million. Because you have to think out of the 11, I have to buy the house, renovate the house. And then when I get money, I have to share that money. Rudy get some money, Dave get some money, like the investor. Like everybody's getting some money.

Right. So I might have made $4 million, but it was more like $11 because it was $11.5 is what I agreed to admit to to the FBI when I took off on the run. Just Tampa. Just Tampa. Yeah. Or Florida. Not just Tampa. No, just Tampa because I also borrowed money.

90 in Tampa, you think? Or total? In New War City. No, no, in Ybor City. Because they say it's 109, but I don't think it is. I think it's closer to nine. I think it, that statement is misleading. I think it's closer to 90.

And I think it's closer to me making a personally making about four million. You bought those houses up in Ebor City. Yeah. The ones that they were like right now would be right behind. What is the street down there, the, where Ebor? Oh, you mean 7th Avenue? Yeah. Like, you know where all the bars are?

Yeah, yeah. There used to be houses right behind there when I was a kid. I've owned, I actually owned a house that's still there. A lot of these houses. is you we can drive by and you can still see that house like I own that house some of these houses I bought and sold multiple times I'm straining my brain to figure out who I knew that used to live right but I went to their house in high school right that house would be worth a lot of money right now of course same houses that I was gone well the same houses that I was buying and selling

that I'm sorry the same houses I would buy for 50,000 and you could sell it you could probably sell it legitimately between 100 to 150,000 let's say legitimately I'm saying that I'm saying that That's what the average would go for between 100 to 150. Now those same houses are legitimately going for 300 to 350,000. Those gingification is going down there. They're gone. And this was complete hood. There was maybe one or two bars.

It's still hood. It is kind of. Yeah. But it's not what it was. Oh, no. Even the streets were garbage. No, no. When I was growing up, probably 10 years prior to this, like you basically get almost

guarantee you might get mugged going to Ebor City. I mean, it was bad. Like, it was bad. Until they came in, they rebuilt Centro, Ebor. Yes. Yeah. Then it changed, but not that much. But then, like, they were still living behind.

Yeah. Because when I left for college, that Ebor was building up, but right behind it was still the houses. Yeah, you could walk. I still went to that. I'm trying to remember when I heard of one. You could walk three blocks. Yeah, and be right in the hood.

Right. Go to print with a major expose of Cox's ski. Cox catches wind that he's about to be, front of page news. That's the article I read. Dubious deals. Dubious deals. You don't have that article?

I got upstairs. I was in Hillsborough County Jail the day that article came out. Rebecca Hawke has known Matt Cox for just six weeks. Six weeks. At best. At best. as a fugitive. Incredibly.

It was, it was so hard. And I was crying hysterically. And Bryce is like, Mom, you'll see me in two weeks. And Matt's standing there and I'm crying and I'm thinking, okay. And then when we got, when Bryce got on the plane, Matt's like, you'll see him. It'll be okay. You're going to be able to see him as much as you want. So let me tell you about that.

I did not go to the airport. That always kills me because I didn't go to the airport. Well, somebody was there and lied there. I'm just, I didn't go to the airport. I didn't go to the airport. what happened was she had stayed the night her son was at the end of the year she told this is what she told me she said when she was trying to convince me to let her come with me right when you were trying to talk her right i was trying to say you don't need to do this you don't need to come with

you have a child right you have yeah she you have your kids you have your parents like you have a job and then she explains to me like listen you have no like look first of all the only reason i'm in Tampa so she'd come she'd move to st peter she was like the only reason i even moved here is because she was working for a lawyer I told you said this on the last one she was working for a lawyer he caught her embezzling whatever $10,000 $15,000 and couldn't fire her

and didn't want to call the cops because he was sleeping with her and he was married so he had her he got one of his clients to hire her and move her to St. Petersburg to start her life over, stay away from me right? So she ends up now her... Does she tell you that? Yeah she told me all this

Bryce, her son, her ex-husband had raised him in Vegas. So she talks her ex-husband into letting her take Bryce. So Bryce is like 12 or 13. So he comes and lives with her. They had only been in Tampa a few months. And within three or four months, he's been caught sneaking out of the house. He's been caught after curfew multiple times. He got caught smoking pot.

And she's like, I can't control him. His grades are failing. I can't control him. She was, he, she had already talked to the ex-husband and said, look, at the end of the school year, I'm going to have, I'm going to bring him and let, I'm going to let you keep him. Right. So he's already leaving at the end, at the end of the school year. But instead, what happens is she's like, look, I'm going to put him on a plane. He was supposed to go back to visit his father for Christmas anyway.

Right. He just doesn't know he's not coming back. She's leaving. And even then, at the end of the year, he was leaving anyway. but I didn't even go like I'm not going like I got no reason to go like I'm fucking trying to do shit trying to get stuff together to leave

so she's crying Matt about parting with her son so the other funny thing is the dubious deals article they make it sound like so they make it sound like they make it sound like this article came out and then I took off

when in fact I took off the article doesn't the article says you're missing. Right. Yeah, I was going to say the article comes out after I take off on the run, but they don't say that here. They change it because obviously it's more complicated than that. I remember that article. You know, one of the big reasons I remember that article is because when I saw it, I thought that was a spot that I lived in. I'm like, I think that's, oh, no, no, no, it's not it. But go ahead. No, it's definitely not. I lived in a, like, stairs like that on a house right behind

North A Street and what's that on the other side of Kennedy Boulevard? Yeah, this is Drew Park. This is off Tampa Street. In 2003,

Testimon Series dubious deals hits the newsstands. They gave the date and everything. The reporter details of fraud worth more than $4 million. But Matt Cox is gone.

He was never seen in Tampa again, ever. The trail went cold for me for a while. Where Cox was, I didn't know. The people who know him best assume he's fled the country. They think he's gotten on the cruise ship

and he's headed to some island south. Cox's ex-girlfriend, Allison Arnold, is among those asking questions. I always wondered, you know, what happened to them. Where are they? Allison has not been caught for her role in one of Cox's scams.

Six months earlier, she poses as Rosita Perez and takes out fraudulent home loans. Though the police have not yet come knocking on her door, Allison is worried. She knows the heat's on. I was a nervous wreck. I got a job as a waitress because I couldn't work for any bank. My hands would shake.

My hands would shake. Allison decides to call the FBI. So I spilled my guts out. Said everything. Allison tells the feds everything she knows to help them catch cocks. Allison thinks her cooperation will buy her immunity from prosecution.

She's wrong. Eventually, she's sentenced to two years in prison for bank fraud. To me, that's a hefty sentence for somebody who had no previous criminal records. Really, I had no knowledge of everything that I was totally doing, but I followed along and did something.

thing yes and I know it was illegal yes you know everybody knows that right and wrong inside but I just I didn't think the consequences would be like this while Allison faces prison Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawke head to Atlanta Atlanta is one of the hardest hit cities by mortgage fraud is it's about to get worse I'd heard that somewhere I fell for some so hard and so fast he just made you think that it was big deal that you know what he was doing was fine and then he would say if it ever comes to it just blame me you don't you won't you won't get job i'll take the blame for everything because i'm going to blame you we're pointing to find at each other make it confusing

energy he used to tell me that people believed women more than they believed to men hawk using the name grace hudson poses as a single woman looking to rent this house in alpharetta a suburb of Atlanta. Is that really the house? Yeah. He meets with the owner, Michael Shanahan. He and I talked for a while, and he was, you know, he was very nice. And that was a heart, because he was the only person that I really met face to face.

Grace Hudson, Rebecca's alias, rents the home. And Matt Cox takes over the landlord's identity. What I did was I used a child social security number, and I went and got some credit cards in his name, went and opened some bank accounts. hoping that none of this would hit Michael Shanahan's credit. Which it didn't. Michael Shanahan, the owner of this $200,000 house, Cox goes looking for money.

Well, I met the fellow calling himself Michael Shanahan at the front door here. John Holman is not a faceless bank. He lends his own hard-earned money to people who need short-term loans. I was there primarily to see the condition of the house. At the time, it didn't occur to me to wonder about his identity or anything to that effect. Cox, posing as Michael Shanahan, tells Holman he wants to borrow money against the equity in his home. Is this true?

Is that the guy? Yeah. That's the guy. He's a hard money lender. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The story was that he owned a house free and clear and wanted to borrow money against it to start a money against it to start a business. He had just moved back from the UK, wanted to start a

business, and needed $110,000 or so. Is that true with it? I think it was like $150. I thought I was $1.50. I think he'd only lend $110. Holman has no idea Cox is also talking to a friend of his. On what they call a hard money lender, I'd lend money mostly to other investors and buying properties to renovate and resell. I called three of them. Cox tells Peter St. Martin he wants $106,000 to start a business. To St. Martin, Shanahan seems like a sure thing. It was a 50% loan-to-value loan up in Alpharetta, Georgia, in a beautiful neighborhood.

Very low risk. Very low risk. So I let him put the noose around my neck. I mean, what could happen? His ID, and he had actually more than the normal ID, He had a Florida driver's license, he had a credit card, and a Social Security card, all in the name Michael Shanahan. So everything checked out, and we made the loan, thinking that we had secure interest in the property. A month later, Peter St. Martin realizes Michael Shanahan has missed his first loan payment.

John Holman is in the same boat, but neither man is worried. Each thinks he's the first in line to foreclose if necessary. And I'm happy about it. And I'm looking forward to taking back this collateral and selling it very quickly at a very nice profit. Although we don't do these loans with the purpose for getting the house back. It's not necessarily a disaster for us. But Matt Cox will have the last laugh. That's why I remember.

So here's what's funny is that they were just two. There was actually three. There was another. there was another there was actually a third loan yeah there was a third hard money guy i guess he couldn't he would probably wouldn't come on the program so they just don't mention him oh no but anyways yeah there was three wow something i just met them and somehow i'm like yeah kind of saying where is your property you know because you do most so john and i were chatting and mentioned that yeah we did this loan you're not going to you know this guy first month to fall

blah blah blah i don't know what rang a familiar bell there but i I asked Peter what street was the loan on. Mine was Kingham, and you're like, oh, no. I said, oh, oh, oh. It's the same property. Same address. And I said, what was the guy's name? And he said, Michael Shanahan.

And you said, I said, uh-oh. Unbelievable. Well, and the fact that he borrowed money from you and me, we both know each other. And I sat there during the rest of the concert, thinking that I was probably out $110,000 and not real happy about it. Stop.

They're fine. They're fine. Of course. I tell you, some reason something the old me is like, stick it to the man. We protect the president and former presidents, but we also deal with any kind of financial crime, anything that affects the financial infrastructure of the United States. Special agent Andrea Peacock doesn't know who Michael Shanahan and Grace Hudson really are. It was John and Jane Doe.

And when we obtained our initial warrants for the two, they were in the name of John and Jane Doe. I wonder why the Secret Service creates a wanted poster and eventually tracks down a former associate. I mean, she's obviously in on it. She rented the property. And keep in mind, too, by this point, they realized, so she rented the property. She also opened up bank accounts. So the money, I'm, we're putting money into her accounts and Michael Shanahan's accounts and other people. Lots of people's accounts were putting money into it. Okay, okay. That explains it. Because, like, renting a house doesn't necessarily mean she's involved. Right. But laundering the money does.

Yeah, it does. You've got to clarify. You please. So it's a conspiracy to commit thankful. Cox is in Tampa. Please identify the crimes. He did, in fact, know who he was and told us his name was Matthew Bevin Cox. Agent Peacock learns that Matt Cox has taken out three loans on Shanahan's property for a total take of more than $300,000.

Three loans. Peter St. Martin is out of luck. His titled insurance will not cover the loss. Is that true? They paid him eventually. To a small business, that could have easily put me out of business at that time. It hurts. Luckily, I'm a multi-millionaire.

So. In Peacock talks to the real Michael Shanahan, who realizes he's a victim of identity theft. Semi credit cards and checking accounts have been taken out in his name. and then there's the statue that Cox left behind the We've seen the stat we've heard about the statue Of course He told me that he felt like he was leaving it behind on purpose Because that was the way he felt when he saw that statue

realized what Cox had done to him Not true Not true That's not true What would you pause it? What would you say was the purpose of the statue Just to clear the air No, honestly, I just did a paper mache stuff. I'm bored.

I have nothing to do. This fraud is not full time, right? Like we set it up and you have to wait a week. And that took a while to set up, right? Like that, from beginning to end, what is that? 60, 90 days? Something like that, yeah. But so we're not doing anything.

Like Becky and I are going, like, we went to like Mexico. We went to Vegas. We went to Jamaica. We went to like, we're talking. traveling all over the place where we're you know just like you're just you just can't hang out in the bedroom until until suddenly they record the the satisfaction of mortgage or until you can't do that so you know we're we're we're rock climbing and and we're just doing a bunch of different stuff we traveled to Charlotte North Carolina we rented another apartment so we had somewhere to go

when we took off from here we wanted to have a place of rented there fully furnished so we spend a couple days in Charlotte right we go to Charlotte We rent. We're buying $30,000 worth of furniture. We fill up an apartment. So we've got a place ready. So when we get our money here, we bolt over there. So it all comes down and it all falls apart in Atlanta. But we're already in Charlotte, South Carolina, North Carolina. Right. So. And keep in mind, too, Becky also had done another. This isn't the only one we did. We did a few others. She'd already borrowed like 60 grand in someone else's name. So that's another reason. She deposited that check into her account. So it's like, it's obvious like, okay, clearly she's doing the same thing he's doing, but they don't ever get into anything she does. Well, okay. What was the purpose of the statue? Oh, the statue was nothing. It was just, it was just something to do.

I mean, it's, it's of the, what do they call it? The scream. The scream, yeah. Yeah, it's probably a better version of The Scream by Edward, Edward Munch. Yes. So your version would have been better? Yeah, because his is, you ever seen his is like, it's like, it's silly. It's melting face.

I know, it's silly. I had actually seen that someone do this in a movie and I was like the statue and it was a paper machet and they compare it to Edward Edvard munches the scream so I thought oh fuck it I got some time I'll make one the problem was when we left we were driving like a Honda element and so we packed all our shit in the Honda element and it didn't fit I even had to remove the back seat and I left the back seat of the Honda element in the garage and I left the statue in the garage and we cleaned up the whole place now all the bedroom furniture we actually broke it down and put it in the garage like the house was perfectly clean he says when he got there the statue was in the middle of the living

room that there was all the documents the fraud documents were scattered all around it and the place was trashed like it wasn't trashed we lived in the bedroom room. So it wasn't trashed. There was all the documents and stuff that I had were basically just in a pile sitting in, uh, in the kitchen on the counter, I think. And the statue was in the, was in the garage. But that's not what he says. He says, oh, it was in there. He staged this whole thing like I was taunting him, but I wasn't haunting him. But his description. It is great. It's a great description. It makes me, beautiful, beautiful evil. It makes me sound like a month. It definitely makes me feel like a man. Get a man credit for putting that in his mind. Yeah.

This guy. I'm not saying I don't deserve any. I deserve any. less clearly I deserve it but you know it's it's inaccurate but that's fine I get it hold on here's Becky as a trail to see this is what I've done he's just like try and catch me you can't flush with cash Cox and Hawk go on a spending stream I went from having absolutely no money to having money and even now I think God I wasted a lot of money on nonsense hawk is obsessed with close and jewelry. Matt Cox is all about fast cards and breast implants. I never got a breast implants. What man is it? She got breast implant. You want to hurry

and get to a breast implant. Yeah, look at those. I'm like, yeah, if this is going to make you happy, let me, you know, I'll do it for you. Of course, I mean, and of course she's giving them back now that you're out of her life. Right. But go ahead. You can paint. Or twist to fit his fantasies. He does the same with his own appearance. When we left, he got obsessed with the way he looked and how his physique was and

stuff like that. I mean, he went, he hardly ever ate. He had a nose job done. Life was done under here. Michael Jackson. Dee! Here's what's funny is both of those pictures are before the surgeries. What?

Wait someone to do that. Greed is the first thing that you think of. But there was more than greed. I think there was a big dose of ego involved in this crime for this particular individual. He's talking about when he went to buy the house, of course, right? So I'm going to loan you half the value of the house and I get the whole house if you default.

Greed. I'm going to go ahead and work that. Yeah, at like a 13 or 14% interest rate. That's fine. That's what he's talking about. I'm talking about what you did. Look at that photo. I saw that.

Secret Service Special Agent. Andrea Peacock is on the tail of Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawke. I have a story about how to the most wanted financial fugitives. But the Secret Service is never sure where they are, or what names they're using. It was impossible to predict what identity he would use next. Cox has as many as 50 aliases.

Joseph Marion Carter, Jr., Philip Daniel Morgan, Corbin Blair Thomas, Matthew Bevan Cox, Gerald Scott Kugna. How's one of your names and alias? Richard Paul Grohawke, Jr., James Franklin Pake. Those are reprints. She didn't actually ever get the original ID from you, did she? Yes, she did.

We had all the IDs. Not all of them, like some stuff like Gary Sullivan and stuff. Like once that scam's done, I'd just ditch everything. But all of those were kind of active or I had them on me. Oh, so she did recover them. Yeah. Oh, okay. But you said, did you have a story about, you know?

Yes. Andrew. Yes. Okay. So at one point, at some point in time, when they were talking to me, I don't remember if I was in jail or out, you know, they were asking me if I had any, I don't know, I was talking to a detective. I think I was, anyway, I told them I know where Matt Cox is.

No, you did not. I swear to you, I did. I have never heard this. I have never heard this. This is because, keep mind. That, that you were out, you were out and living in what, Tampa? Um, what do you talk about when I drove by? No, no, when you saw the, uh, the, um, article, dubious, dubious deals.

I was in Hillsborough County Jail. And so he reads this article. I was in Hillsborough County Jail and he passed a, I had a, I had a fixation with you before then. Because like, in, in, in, in just explained doing my crime, like, I was the only one that, like, would put together schemes. So everybody else was like, oh man, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. Right. And when I read that article on you, I'm like, that's brilliant. Like this guy is brilliant. Automatic fixation. And my mind told me, it's like, oh my God, this is somebody who's probably equal or greater than me in figuring

out. I swear to you. That's what, yes. The egos at this table. It's unreal. It's unbelievable. So anyway, and I believe I was out. At some point, a detective called a phone that I had. And it's all a long story. I don't remember what it was situation. But he's like, because he knew my name. At that point, he knew me and I'm going to have a warrant. I really can't remember the scenario because part of me thinks I called them to find out about something.

And they're like, oh, you know, we're going to arrest you, blah, blah, blah. So then I said, well, you know, what if I have information about Matt Cox? Would you be interested? Dead-ass silence. I'll never forget this. And this is only half of the story. Dead sign. What if I have information about Matt Cox?

Would you be interested? Nothing. Then he comes back. Crickets. Of course we'd be interested. Like, I remember looking at the phone like, of course we'd be interested. Wish I had some.

That's what I thought. So I said, well, we need to make a deal. Right? But he, like, I don't think he believed me. So he said something errant. getting and like okay fuck you too it's kind of what happened but my point behind that is this

when at one point when we were arrested I think my Tara got out that woman questioned Tara okay and asked her about that like Tara goes on and on and she can only remember segments this is when I talked to her she can only remember

segments but one of the segments she remembered is she said that woman said that you mentioned that you knew Matt Cox. This is way before we met. Yeah, yeah. Because we meet in, Zach and I meet in federal prison. And Zach came to me and we were talking. He said, you know, I knew about you before this, right?

And I was like, no. He said, I read an article on you. He is a, and I remember reading the article. I remember thinking, I would love to meet this guy, but the only place I would ever meet this guy. said that in jail. I'm driving on the highway randomly because we were going back

and forth to Atlanta and I passed something that says Coleman I told you this. It says Coleman Federal Prison or Complex. Yeah. I said, I go, that's a federal prison. I said, you know what, that'd be the only place I would meet

I'd be lucky enough to meet my God. I said, but I'd have to go to federal prison for that to happen. That's funny. Yeah, that's funny. No one would ever believe It's like I find that hard to believe But that actually happened to me

I'm serious his heart attack You know what's funny is It's like How do these two hard money lenders Know each other It's just coincidence Yeah just sometimes it's coincidence It's coincidence

But yes She That name And I And Tara said She total bitch Really Mean and direct

And like blah blah So Well Tara was trying to lie Yeah She was very cool to me She was always, the Secret Service in my case was always very professional to me. Oh, she says she was, but it's probably because Tara was, but probably in her mind, everybody was mean because she's like, okay. Yeah, you're lying.

You're lying. Yeah, you're lying. But go ahead. All right. I thought I'd bring that up, though. Pull into Columbia, South Carolina, where Bridget Brown and her husband are trying to sell their home. This is a flyer that the realtor produced. show our home when we were trying to sell it shows a quintessential suburban neighborhood and little

house on a pond try as they may the home won't sell it was a stressful time because i was traveling weekly to augusta already with my son for his surgical treatments this is uh their son colby is sick and they need to move closer to care in augusta georgia but the old house continues to sit unsold. The Browns decide to try something new. A friend of ours recommended that we offer owner financing. He said that that would make the home competitive and also open it up to people that previously

could not have afforded a conventional loan. I see that little surgery done lips and... I mean, phone rings. That night it was Gary Sullivan, or the man we thought was Gary Sullivan that came and viewed the home. Matt Cox has a new alias. Gary Sullivan is actually a homeless person Cox met on a trip to Las Vegas. Gary Sullivan was, you know, a $20 male prostitute,

hopped out and told him I was doing a survey for the Salvation Army, paid 20 bucks, could he answer 17 questions? He said, no problem. This is a scam Cox does again and again. He would take this form that he created, that he, you know, titled a federal statistical survey, They tried to make it look from, you know, official form number in the small print. It has U.S. government printer office. And he'd ask for, you know, full name of birth. You know, their mother's maiden name, father's name, Social Security, had they ever been arrested,

any kind of information that could affect him using that identity. He gives the conman everything he needs to create a new identity. I ordered his Social Security card. I ordered everything. With his identity secured as Gary Sullivan, Cox learns about the Brown's home and moves in for the kill. He was very unassuming, very demure, kind of quiet. The conman cracks jokes at his own expense. He talks about the braces he just had put on his teeth.

And he said, when you're as short as I am, you don't have much to go with, so everything has to be perfect. Nice line. And we knew from what we were told that he had a bad credit history. So I was concerned that, you know, he may be going into that situation again. Yet I wasn't thinking that this was a criminal mastermind that was really playing us. I just thought this is a young man who's very insecure and trying hard here. Even now I get upset for the fact that these people have worked all their lives. And we come in and just, you know, with the, and they want to believe you.

Everybody wants to believe someone. They don't want them to think that, you know, you're going to cheat them out of their, you know, their life savings or whatever. And that's what we did. It's not actually not what we did. No, but that's fine. Oh, the boy's out of the hospital. Lender referred him to him before closing. Mary Nell Degenhardt is a real estate attorney and collars.

South Carolina. A few days after representing Gary Sullivan at another closing, she talks to an abstractor, someone who researches a property's title. She said, your mortgage is recorded in first position, but there's four or five right behind you within two days on the same property. I knew then what he had done, he had refinanced with several different attorneys,

and there's a lag time at the county, so you would have never seen the mortgage until they hit all at once. It's too late. The mortgage checks are clear. And Matt Cox has taken $1.2 million on a $200,000 house. Deckenhart issues a warning to all the banks in town. Immediately, I believe Wachovia was the one that put a fraud alert out through the system. On March 4, 2005, Gary Sullivan strolled into a Wachovia bank in Columbia, South Carolina,

to withdraw money. The bank teller sees that a fraud alert has been issued on this name. Within minutes, deputy sheriffs arrive and ask Gary Sullivan to come downtown. I'm freaking out. So then I go and the investigator shows up and he's arguing with the guys

in Wampovia and we'll argue... Whoa, this isn't the one where they caught you in the bank, is it? Right. So this is I'm in the bank. they handcuffed me in this conversation they like he just said it wrong he said they bring me down town yeah okay no this is all this happens in the bank

okay I then go downtown fill out a police report and they let me go got you okay up next can Matt Cox talk his way out this time what naturally for more information and web exclusives

on the crimes of Matt Cox go to AmericanGree dot CnBC That's crazy. I don't remember seeing this. I have to check that out. Do what else I did. The crimes of Matt Cox. It's probably listed under that.

Chronological. Yeah. I mean, I can see, it's funny watching it. I can see how they condense stuff and remove stuff. Matt Cox, the financial fugitive, stopped at a bank in Columbia, South Carolina. He was at the teller,

and the cops came in and handcuffed him and said, come with me. And he was like, crap i'm freaking out cox goes downtown to the sheriff's department they let him drive his car and that's when he called me because you may this is bad he's like they're here they picked me up at this point they don't know he's matthew cox they think he's gary sullivan the homeless person cox steals the identity of a street person and takes out one point two million dollars worth of loans on a house worth about two hundred thousand dollars

At the bank, Cox is trying to withdraw some of his fraudulent proceeds. So they took him into a room, and he talked his way out of it. He told the guy, I have a second and a third on my home. That's illegal. I convince him that there's nothing illegal about taking out multiple loans on the same house. When the Richland County Sheriff's Department runs a criminal history for Gary Sullivan, they see no warrants for his arrest. The local police at this point usually wouldn't make an immediate arrest unless someone was wanted.

And, of course, they ran the identity that Cox was using, but that person was not wanted. Gary Sullivan was not wanted. The police in Columbia had them dead to rights, but they didn't have the paperwork, and they weren't certain who they were dealing with. And he talked his way out of the situation and was gone. In Columbia, Bridget Brown gets a call from the Secret Service. She and her husband go back to their home. Gary Sullivan, of course, is long gone.

On the kitchen countertop was a fax machine. On it was just tons of spilling out of mortgage applications for home equity loans. Really? These were just some examples of the infamous loan applications that we found in our house where he had forged our names and said that he had paid us off. Did you deal with her or both her and her husband? I actually only met... I only met her and her husband at the closing.

I never dealt with them. I dealt with... They were real estate attorneys and... Jesus. There were realtors involved. Oh. She's making it seem like you made a joke about your height. Yeah, I did, but that was at the closing.

Oh. We used to fight all the time. We used to scream and yell at each other all time. It was like hell being with her. I mean, after we left, she blamed everything on me. What have I done? Why have I left? Why did I do this?

Oh, my gosh. What have why left my son? I'm like, go back. Rebecca hasn't seen her son in more than a year. Her mother isn't sure if she's dead or alive. And then there's the pressure from the Secret Service. Cox Googles himself constantly. He knows the Secret Service is.

working with the media to get their faces in front of as many people as possible. Rebecca Hawk can't stand the heat. We were on TV, the US Secret Service was doing a press conference about us. They had done our pictures, a warrant pictures, and I just freaked out. I'm like, no, we got to leave, we have to leave. This is, you know, we're too close. They're going to find us. We've got to go. She was definitely going to get us caught.

I mean, that's where I was thinking. She was having a meltdown. I mean, she really was melting down. She was coming apart. She was coming apart. One morning in March of 2005, Rebecca takes a shower. And Matt Cox sees an opportunity to steal away. That's not true.

He takes all the cash, but leaves behind all his cell phones. Any way that I could got a hold of him, he left. And I was just like, what? That's not true at all. Of course. That's not true at all. Yeah, she knew, you know, I did leave. I did leave, but I only took like 100 grand and she ended up with like 500,000.

Yeah, but didn't you put her in a separate apartment first? No, no, this was different. This is when we were in Houston, Texas. No, no, yes, that had happened, but that was in Charlotte. By this point, what she's talking about happened here, we had moved, we had moved to Houston, Texas, and we had about 600,000, and I left her with like 500,000. Not that I left her with it. We argued about it, and she was basically saying, look, you're going to go on and

a bunch of money. I have to live off this money. And so I was like, fuck it. Like just to get away from her, give me a hundred grand. You know, she didn't say give me. She said 100 grand. I said, I'll take it. So she gave me 100 grand. And then I just left. But when I, when I was walking out the door, I, because I'd left before. And she always called me on my cell phone within 20 minutes of begging and crying and pleading. And so I just took my cell phone. I said it on the counter. I thought when she calls, it's going to ring there and she's going to know it's over. And I've got no way for her to call me. Right.

So I'm not going to be suckered into believing her lies and come back. She's done. And sure enough, I got, I got to the U-Haul van that I'd use to transfer, for, to transport all of my furniture from Charlotte, North Carolina, all the way to Houston, Texas. So I got in, and by the way, it's empty now, because we've already emptied it into, into a storage unit. So I'm driving this empty truck all the way back to North Carolina.

To North Carolina. to get my car. It's ridiculous. Because first of all, you know, I didn't want to leave the, I could have just left the vehicle, right? Like my problem is if I leave the vehicle, eventually the Secret Service where the FBI is going to figure out, okay, well, there's a vehicle in Houston, Texas, and they could track me back there. Now, granted, they're just going to just going to find her. You know, I could have just got on a plane and flown wherever I wanted.

But I figured drive back, get your car, take your car, go somewhere else, start over, drive the car for a couple of days, get another vehicle, get a new ID, get a new identity, get a new car and then take your car and bring it back to Charlotte, leave it in Charlotte, which is exactly what I did. Smart. But at this point, I'm just, I take off, but I don't leave her with nothing. First of all, when they caught her, they caught her with like 40 grand in the bank. She'd been living had been living for over a year, had just gotten a job, and it paid in full

for, for like, whatever that school is, cosmetology school, to be a hit, to cut hair. So, you know, so the idea that I left you with nothing and you were able to pay $2,500 on month for your apartment plus a year yeah for a year you got a car you bought a she bought a motorcycle she got 40 something thousand dollars in the bank like come on none of that's true you didn't even have a job for almost a year and when she did they caught her she when they caught her she was a waitress she'd been a waitress for like two weeks so it's you know not true but whatever I've expected okay he's gonna come back he's just mad he's gonna come back and well he never came back

weeks turn into months when Rebecca tries to go She makes up a new name, Rebecca Sue Hick. She did it on her owner. You helped her with a... She had that ID before I even... We got her that before I even got there. ...based on... ...wanted poster that this person believed that she was using the name Rebecca Hickey.

Rebecca Hawke is arrested in Houston while attending class at a cosmetology school. There were about five U.S. marshals that came in to class, and I was just like, like, oh, man. And I, you know, I thought they're here for me. The Secret Service hopes Rebecca can answer their most pressing question. Where is Matt Cox? I wonder who turned her in. She hasn't seen him or talked to him in a year.

So my understanding on who turned her in was that she had been communicating with her mother. This is what the Secret Service said. They said she'd been talking to her mother. Her mother's like, I'm worried. I'm scared. What are you going to do? Blah, blah. And she's like, Matt's gone.

And she's like, come home. she's like, I can't come home. I've committed a ton of fraud. I'm going to go to fucking prison. She's like, I've got money. Everything's fine. And she said, look, I've got an ID. I've got money. I'm good. So her mom's like, you know, at least tell me where you are. And she tells her, I'm, well, don't worry, I'm, are you safe? Yeah, she's like, I live downtown. I live in a nice, I live in Houston. It's fun. Or in Houston, Texas, it's fine. So then a month or two months, six months later, whatever, months later, she ends up telling her mother, she's like, oh, yeah, I'm starting cosmetology school tomorrow. So her

mother knows she's in Houston going to a cosmetology school. So how hard it is it to go to the three cosmetology schools that are in Houston, Texas, and show them her photo? And somebody's going to be like, yeah, I know who that is. She's registered

here. So they figured out. Now, according to Becky, what she told me was that she was a waitress and that a U.S. Marshal came into the restaurant and recognized her and then went and then they they got her fingerprints and then they

checked and then they said it was her and then they came and arrested her but that doesn't make sense no you know like it first of all it's you know it doesn't make sense that they would then wait and go rest you at the cosmetology school why they know where you work you know they know where like the whole thing that he's going to recognize you that that and then she would have said oh the U.S. Marshals, that's a great story. Like, somebody, you know, she happened to be working as a waitress, you know, whatever. And a U.S. Marshall happened to walk in and recognize her and arrested her. Like, that's a much easier story.

Right. So I think that what the Secret Service told me is different than what she believes happened. Cox is still on the run. Now he's in Nashville with a new girl and a new real estate company. Maybe it's karma catching up with him. But the con man is about to become. a victim when American greed returns. You can't get away with that forever.

Gail McKenzie is the federal prosecutor in charge of the case. There was absolutely no regard for the over 100 victims that he left behind. His girlfriend slash accomplices, he knew they had gone to jail. He just moved on with more and more fraud. In Nashville, Cox forms yet another fraudulent

shell company steals the identity of another homeless person and starts dating yet another pretty young woman. A single mom. These fuckers, the pattern. And then Greece, paid for, of course, with stolen money, made possible by Cox's stash of fake IDs. You and I can't even get on a plane without somebody looking at us anymore. Matt Cox, you know, at the top of the most wanted list, was able to create an ID that passed mustard for him to get out of the country and back in. That's not true. Maybe Cox has tempted fate once too often. Maybe it's... So that's not true. The fake IDs that I actually made, I only used for closings or maybe to open a bank count. Like I was able to get passports, but I would always, when I would get passports, I would go into the Department of Motor Vehicles

and get a driver's license issued. So I have a real driver's license. Then I would go fill out a police, I would then go fill out a passport application, and then I would apply for a passport. So if I'm going out of the country, I'm using a real passport. If I'm getting pulled over and the cop gives me a ticket, I'm using a real driver's license. You know, the fake IDs that I actually made, I never used. I would have shown them to a cop.

I think they would have figured it out right away. Yeah, especially with what's the name, Allison, having trouble with the bank the first time with it. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, these would have been me, but it, I mean, which, well, that was her too. But, yeah, I just don't. So that's not quite accurate, but that's fine. And then, of course, the hundreds of victims, McKenzie's such a lion piece of, my U.S. attorney, what, she's just a lion piece of garbage. Like, she, like, I have four victims.

If you add up what I owe to each one of those victims, it's 30 grand. It's 30 grand. So, you know, everything else is banks, everything else. But not that those people deserve to be victims, I'm just saying that over a hundred victims. She's including the banks. So, but. Well, when you, I'm just going to say, when you don't have a lot of victims, then they get very broad in their, their definition. Oh, the victims, you know, because they get more specifics if it's, you know, over 130 people were victim.

You know what I'm saying? They get specifics when they have the numbers. When they don't have the numbers, they get very, you know, abstract. Over 100 victims. You know how many people were injured or took losses? And look, is it over 100 victims? Like, I don't think it is. I think it's over 50 victims, but victim banks.

But, you know, the thing is she then says, you know, she goes and says, you know, people and this. And, you know, what are you talking about? You never once said banks. You should, why didn't you just say over 50 victim, either four people and over 50 victims, 50 banks? Yeah. That's what you could have said, but you don't. You know, they have to make you look as horrible. Not that I'm not a horrible human being, but whatever.

That's fine. But let's be accurate about it. Please. For once. All right. I'm catching up with him. But one night, he's back in Nashville relaxing at home with his girlfriend when two armed intruders break through his front door. Officer Cassandra del Bosco responds.

And Cox shows her a video taken from his security camera. You could actually see one lift his foot up and kick in the door. And one of them's holding him at gunpoint, and then you see him getting all their property. And you see Cox, he's kind of mad. He's not really scared. He's mad. The thieves get away with the girlfriend's car, jewelry, and $6,000 in cash. Cox files a police report under his alias.

Joseph Carter, and we did run his DL. It was a valid Tennessee driver's license. driver's license with this picture on it. We had no reason to believe it wasn't him. Around the same time, the Secret Service gets a tip from a woman in Nashville. She's seen the most wanted poster and thinks Cox is living in her neighborhood.

The tipster describes Cox to a team. Secret Service then gets in position to make the big arrest, and he's no longer there, gone once again. This time, we were within two days of him. I can't tell you what a tremendous letdown that was. The day after, Officer Delbert... So here's the explanation for that is that my house had been... We'd had a home evasion.

So we went and stayed in a hotel. So they're watching the house and it's empty. They think we missed them. We missed them. But you didn't miss me. I'm just staying in a hotel. Oh. But the tip of...

tip is still from the tip is from Trina right but you know but Trina didn't live in our neighborhood okay well I mean I understand it they they whatever yeah but the tip is still from her it's not a separate tip and then they left and then they got another tip is what I'm trying to make sure this is this is Trina calling and and at that point I don't think they went to the wrong house I think they probably no no they went to the right house the secret service is watching the right house I'm just not staying there we just had a home invasion so we're like we're getting out of this neighborhood. We're going to go live in a nice neighborhood. Now, I felt comfortable in the

neighborhood. The brand new school in front of us. I owned like 20 house or. So the home invasion happened after you told her who you were, after she found out who you were. Becky? I mean, Amanda? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Amanda knew like within about two, three months into the relationship. She knew who I was. Oh, okay. Okay. That clues it up. All right. Well, she knew I was on the run. Maybe another couple months she knew. She found out that I was Matt Cox. She just I just knew I was on the run. She didn't know my name, but a couple of months go by, she finds out she realizes on Matt Cox.

But this, yeah, we'd had a home invasion. We move out of the house and go live in a hotel for a few days. And so almost immediately the Secret Service was watching the house, but we don't live there anymore. Like, it's there. Our stuff's there, but it's abandoned. They'll watch it 24 hours a day for like two, three days. And they're like, the fuck.

Like, he's the guy didn't live here. He must have been tipped off and left the city or the country or whatever. again, but in actuality, that's not true. And I look down on my computer, and I noticed that the Secret Service had just sent out an email, please stay out of the area, we're looking for a fugitive. And I looked at the address and I thought, hold up a second. We just had a home invasion there two days ago. And I talked to this supposed fugitive that they're looking for. Working with the Secret Service, the Nashville police create a ruse. They ask Cox to meet them for a funnel.

report about the home invasion. Cox is so confident in his ability to fool everyone that he falls right into the track. The Secret Service is waiting. Hey, Matthew, how you doing? You are Matthew Cox, aren't you? And I went, yeah, I'm Matthew Cox. And I mean, I remember my knees went weak.

Just because I hadn't heard my name aloud in so long. After three years on the run, Matt Cox has finally stopped. He's taken a total of $12 million from banks and private lenders, and he's left behind more than 100 victims. Once in custody, he begins to talk freely to the Secret Service. He was very forthcoming in what he had done, but he was trying to sell to us, just like he had tried to sell to others,

that there really are no victims. That's what he wanted us to believe that the, you know, the title insurance companies, that's what they're there for, you know, insurance companies pay policy, so really no one is hurt. Bridget Brown and her husband were conned by Cox at a time when they were caring for a sick child who was constantly in and out of the hospital. I did not know these people had a sick child. I met them at the closing. I went to the house, looked at the house very briefly, put a contract in on it, got them to owner finance the house,

bought the house but at the closing is the only time I met them like I mean nobody at the closing said oh we have a sick child by the way I don't know that I just know we're signing the paperwork

we're chit chatting stop stop I mean don't I mean I cause I caused the woman to lose a pregnancy so I don't understand why you could never I don't know why you couldn't have affected a six

What did you do you ran up some you used her credit card or something that she had to make, use some woman's credit card. They bring her into a sentencing and she says the stress of the $110 that he put on her credit card might have cost her to lose her. At the time this was going on, I had a miscarriage. Oh, okay. So the stress of you getting a $110 charge on your credit card calls you to have a miscarriage.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's, come on. Of course, we're not saying it's directly related. we would charge him, you know, for the loss of the baby. I'm like, oh, that's so nice. Oh, thank God. You're not going to charge me with a manslaughter?

Yeah, that's so nice to them. It's like, it's horrible. When are they going to be so generous? Go ahead. Why's that kid's foot up in the air? I don't know. Look, how horrible. Like, they got a, they, they, they show the sick kid and the whole thing.

It's just fucking horrific. Like, I'm a horrible person. And I feel bad. A young family going through some stressful times, and he was aware of that. You know, we mentioned that getting to the closing was difficult. for us because we had to find appropriate medical care for our son. I think it was a pretty poor argument to say that this was a victimless crime. On April 10, 2007, Matthew Bevan Cox pleads guilty to bank fraud,

mortgage fraud, and identity theft. He is later sentenced to 26 years in federal prison. This fellow got what he deserved. He got a very stiff sentence in federal prison. And because there's no parole in the federal system anymore, he is going to spend a couple of decades plus in federal custody. You don't want to call him and let him know you're out? I have a feeling he knows I'm out by now.

Rebecca Hawke is sentenced to six years in prison, but she will be eligible for release in 2009. Matt Cox's story has one more mystery. $5 million of his loot is still missing. I know where it's at. Where's the money? I would love to know the answer to that question. I mean, I think the possibilities are limitless as to where he could have put the money.

Cox's former girlfriends believe he may have an offshore account. No wonder, every time this aired, they go, where's the money, Matt? Yeah. I know you still got some money out there where the money is. How it's projected... What that money yet? He's 2029. What?

I'm supposed to be in prison right now. For 30 years? That wouldn't leave you out in 2029? 30 years. No, I was 26. It was 26 years. My outdate was 2030. Really?

That's not 26 years. No, well, there's good time. If you looked on the... When this was aired, you know, they... whatever, probably looked on the website, it takes account for good time. Look, if I was, if I was sentenced to 26 years, it was 26 years and four months. In 2007. In 2006.

Oh, yeah, that would be. It would have been, if you add it all up, it's 2035, but you have to take off good time. Then it's 2030. But keep in mind this guy, they also. The new BMO, V.I. Porter, MasterCard, is your ticket to more, more perks, more, more. points more flights more of all the things you want in a travel rewards card and then some get your ticket to more with the new bemo v i porter master card and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months terms and conditions apply visit bemo.com slash the i porter to learn more said it's so many

things are just inaccurate which is ridiculous it's silly but um one of the things is you know Five million is missing. I don't know where they get five million from because my restitution is six million, not five. And then the U.S. or the secret service agent, Andrew Peacock, saying, well, I would love to know where that money is. Like, you know, there's no money. Like, what are you doing? You know what I'm saying? It's just silliness.

Like the whole thing, his co-defendants think that he's got offshore bank accounts. Are you fucking out of your mind? Like, listen, don't I wish? but whatever it's fine it's fine so um my overall assessment is as as i said this is a little more embellished it's it does not the other one made you look evil this made you look the the kid thing this is remember i told you the first date line they talked about the kid then when they re-interviewed me they cut that part out because they had to throw my interview in there so they removed that part about that part and then this american greed they threw the the brown's dr brown and his wife

they threw that their child had apparently had some kind of illness or something and had been in the hospital but once again like i said i didn't know that nothing to be honest with you i don't even think that would change i don't think that would have changed anything i still would have closed on the loan and i think that kid thing landed flat. I don't think, and I don't know if that's just me talking, but I would say, I would invite people to leave a comment. I just think by her having a kid in the hospital at the closing, I don't think that kind of makes me go like, oh, you, you evil dog, you know what I'm saying?

I think it's something that they really, that's not a story they could flourish to make people think that that was, that you had any involvement in that at all. Like any part of your plan included that kid, you know what I'm saying? No. Well, you know what's another thing is like we had done a bunch of we had done other frauds like, but Becky was involved in those. They don't talk about those. You know, she was directly. And so the way it feels for me with the Becky situation is like she's like, I'm just hanging out with this guy who's committing fraud. I didn't commit fraud. Like yes, I, I'm using a different ID. I have a different identity. But I'm not committing bank fraud. But the truth is you are committing. She's committing bank fraud. She's cashing checks. She took mortgages out in her name. Correct. Sign them. Opened accounts, deposit the money,

pulled the money out. So when you really look at it, like there's tons of... And that's what I mean by it. It creates, it's the portrait of you from that is of the mastermind of being like absolutely in control.

It leaves out a lot of stuff from like Alison Arnold. And even from Amanda, is that the last girl from Tennessee? Her even knowing who you really were. You know what I'm saying? I mean, they brought her in for questioning. So they leave out all of relevant things that take away from your accomplishments in it. It's hard to explain. I feel like I'm pulling for the abstract here. But the other one really made you look like evil.

Right. And this one doesn't make you look evil. It just makes it feel like this one makes me look pretty bad too. Only because of the kid. The reason the kid thing bothers me. I promise you that land's flat. I promise you, no one, no one goes, my, my God. See, because I, that woman had a sick kid. I didn't know that, but whatever. Yeah, it's, yeah, anyway, and you know what's so funny is like, it's people that are criminally minded when they see this. They're all, they always talk about American, bro, I remember you on American Greek. That was one of my favorite episodes. I always, I was, I'm always like, really, I always felt like the, the sick kid thing really, you know, it really makes me look bad. Not that I don't deserve to look bad, but it's like, to me, it's like, look,

what I did was bad enough. You don't have to make it worse. Like, you know, as a supposedly, not that American greed is journalism, but, or Dateline, you know, let's face it, they're, they're, you know, they're tabloids. But, but what I'm saying is, look, you know, you're a tabloid, your national tabloid show. It's like, you, So, you know, you go for sensationalism. But what I'm saying is, like, you could just be accurate. Like, why not just give an accurate portrayal of what happened? Because it doesn't suit their bottom line.

I mean, let's face it, if you just go with the facts, the facts are sensational enough. But they have to try and twist it and make it look as menacing and evil as possible. Yes. But to me, it's like, okay, well, you're committing crimes. It's already evil, right? Do you have to also say, you know, a dating a single mother? You never mentioned Jay and a Poe. She didn't have any of these other women that I dated that that I dated.

They just don't mention them. Right. Well, because as I make that, I think they're highlighting you. So I'm, I've been going through my mind about like people's opinion of American greed. People who aren't criminals. Because I, like, I can, like, one that comes to mind is my brother. Because one time my brother called me up and said, hey, there's a show American Greed is talking about some of the things

that you and blah blah, but check it out. You know what I'm saying? But he's a criminal. But I'm thinking of people who I knew they weren't criminal when they watch American Greed, they only see what the criminal did. They never, ever mentioned any of the victims

or, I'm telling you, that show sensationalizes the criminal and the crime. It does not put any emphasis on victims or the people around. Whereas to notice the difference between the both, I promise you the other one.

Like the other one, I'm kind of like, damn. Like, geez, dude. I mean, I had an opinion, and I'm on your side. And I'm kind of like, it really hurts. Like, when it was over, I'm like, damn. I don't think I can talk to you anymore. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. And that's why you weren't.

That's why I asked you about when they caught you And I'm like, that's not even you. Listen, I, listen, my victims still have their children. Look what you did. You bastard. That is so true. So that's true. He turns in the hospital.

So hopefully he's out now and living a flourishing life. But, uh, you don't bother me. Look, all of them like, like, honestly, this man got what he deserved 26 years. Like, bro, like, that's kind of callous. Like, you think I deserve 26 years? You know, like the people that say that they, you know, that's what he does. Come on, bro. Like, what do you think a rapist deserves?

What do you think a murderer deserves? What do you think someone who, would manslaughter? Like, bro, like, and not just that, you got paid back. Yeah. Well, and they leave all that out. They leave all that out. Well, because, you know, that guy showed up at my sentencing and had been paid back. Which one?

The guy. The white-haired guy? I don't know. The hard money lender? No, no, it was. Yeah, the white-haired guy. He'd been paid. back. It's like you didn't lose any money. He's one of the four people. He lost like 15, it cost

him like $1,500 to a lot that he paid a lawyer. So you paid $1,500 to a lawyer. And by the way, when they asked him, did you lose any money? He said, no. The U.S. attorney is like, you, you didn't lose. She's like, you didn't lose anything. I thought you lost, you know, a hundred thousand dollars. He's like, no, he said they paid me back. The title company paid me back. And she's like, you didn't lose anything? Did you have to hire, did you ever hire an attorney? And he goes, oh, you know, I did hire an attorney. She said, how much was that? And he was like, $1,500, it's about $1,500. And she goes, you know, Mr. So-and-so lost $1,500 to have to pay for an attorney. She's like, and you couldn't, and he was like, oh, no, no, I couldn't. I couldn't. It was, it was so,

I felt like going like, what are you doing? The guy's lending out. I'm reaching. I'm reaching. I'm reaching here. I mean, you know what's funny is that people in the comments always, They're like, oh, you're not sorry. You're not taking responsibility. You're not sorry. I am more than willing to take responsibility for what I did. If you go into a candy store and you steal a Snickers, you know, then okay, fine. But don't arrest me and tell me that you stole all the money in the cash register and all the 250 Snickers.

And you're like, hey, I'm willing to plead guilty to the Snickers. Right. But not all the Snickers and not the money in the cash register. You're not taking responsibility. No, I am. for what I did that's it you know that

and that's always seems to be the case with some asshole in the fucking comment section so please leave a comment oh sorry but please leave a comment Matt you're an asshole

you bastard that's what I just want to hear you bastard Cox you bastard are we good that we good I think so

it went long I know that went long and say oh hey I appreciate you guys watching the video do me a favor leave leave me a comment You assholes.

You assholes. So leave me a comment. Share the video. Hit the subscribe button, even though I probably lost some subscribers. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so you get notified videos like this. Dateline and American Greed. The full episodes will be on Patreon.

I'm checking those out. All right. So I appreciate it. See you. You asshole. Listen, we had to talk about fallout. The show? The TV show Fallout.

Have you watched that? Oh, yeah. that's great but i did nothing but fucking fallout shit and then i watched one video which may have made a bigger mistake that was like oh my god now it's nothing but fallout fallout fall out yeah but i've watched it and i guess i never talk about it well we have conversation like jess and i hope she sent me a photo of a guy with a backpack the backpack the big fan like they put they do parasilling with the fans on the back where they get so they can fly all around sent me that next thing i know tictox are showing up with it like i didn't i'm just oh wow that's cool yeah that's photo it was a photo

So it looked at the photo and saw what it was and started saying, this guy might be interested in this. Yeah, it's terrifying. It's, what is it, minority report? Yeah. Like a mother. And in minority report, it was creepy. Like, he's walking up the street and they're like, Mr. John, Mr. Jones.

Well, that was reading his eyelid, his eyes. It was like, are you coming back for a new pair of boxer briefs? You know, how did you like those such? He's walking through the gaps. How did you like those two-fitted, That is, and that's what we're moving to. Yeah. Big time.

Yeah, assuming if there's ever malls again. Really? Your fan. Your fan is, I watched all that fall out. Oh, yeah. We watched the whole thing. The, Jess and I watched it. What is it, the robot, the brotherhood?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's the freaking, like, at first I'm like, eh. Then I'm like, this is actually pretty good. Yeah. Oh, no, like the first two, I'm like, this is so fucking corny. But then as you start watching, it's like, I, well, yeah, it turns, completely turns it on his head because now the the vault people

are inherently evil you don't know what I'm saying you know when in fact well okay but they've been lying well you haven't watched any of the lore the what they call it lore like the backstories

all these different L-O-R-E L-O-R-E lore Like is that a show or there is a the term lore is kind of like the history of Oh

Star Wars lore is going to be like all the comic book all the things that Oh, okay. So there's a bunch of, there's books on it and everything. So people make tons of videos. Like if you want to know about how the, the Brotherhood of Steel was how it became to be.

Right. Because it was, it was fault. It was garbage because the head guy's like, you and me, buddy. You know what I'm saying? You stood up to the. Right. But I'm saying if you want to know how that just became created, like after the war, like the whole history of it, there's a whole history of all the guys that started it,

how it got started, how it was overthrown one. how then they came back, how the battles they've had, what they do, how there was a branch of it that broke away and they called themselves the, I forget what they called themselves, whatever, the, not the forgotten, but the exiles or something like that, they started their own branch and then, like he's got a whole thing, you want to know how the war started? You want about all the wars that led up to the war? You want to know about the Chinese, the Russians, or the Soviets?

Well, I thought they arranged that. I thought in the, when the little, no, not in the lore. don't know what's going to ultimately have it. They're just talking about it right now, right? Like, you don't. Well, in the series, his wife, she just discusses it. Well, she goes, we should cause it. That's what she says. Yeah, but that was a discussion. They just discuss it in reality. Well, if they stick with the main thing, in reality, the Chinese attack us and start not and blow up a bunch of stuff. That's how it happened. But yes, that was part of the plan was like, look, if this, if we get to a point where this isn't we can tell it's not happening and not going to happen

we'll just drop some of the bombs ourselves that's exactly what she said right and and so yeah she but keep in mind too she wouldn't if she was in charge or something like that or knew it she's going to make sure we're there in a bunker when it happens the first bomb that comes out her daughter is with her husband right on a on a weekend like she's not and he's playing a cowboy at a birthday party right right yeah because he was like an actor or something he's she's got him whatever blackballed for being a communist or something Oh yeah because he went

Start spying on her Yep That's how it's going to end up She basically finds out And so she kind of You know Gets and put on a blacklist So now all he's doing

Is able to go And to children's parties And yes Remember the two guys Make the snide comment about them Yes Oh man You gotta read

I mean listen It's I find it super Listen so the Chinese An Alastic effort In I want to say 2007 invade Alaska to get a hold of all the petroleum. And then so, of course, we fight them, but we're losing the battle against them until they come up with the suits. Right.

And the suits end up, well, they hold the line for a little bit. Then eventually they end up taking back Alaska. And then they invade China. And they take a huge portion of China, they don't really get into too much. And the guys will explain, like, we don't really know too much about that. All we know is they went up to this point and held it. At some point, obviously, they fell back. You know, of course, once the Chinese nuke us, you know, then, of course, we don't know.

Never really know what happens to China. So what this consensus is is that the other countries in the world have it at least as bad as the United States or at least as bad as the United States, either as bad or at least as bad. Because you don't hear from them anymore. We're basically left ourselves. and society in several spots have been rebuilt and then it's just collapsed again like they can't seem to get their shit together again so you basically have like these feudal war inter uh you know wars between each area wars between each other and by the way the which which explains why the um they bombed that city that had oh that's what i just thought of myself yeah rebuilt that whole this is right and then they bombed it they burned it down because it's like you No, you're not going to start a society. Yeah, I don't know what. I'm not sure exactly.

Well, that's because that's when the knighthood found the black kid. Yeah. They had just destroyed his whole city. He's a pivotal part in the series. Oh, yeah, he becomes. Yeah, he starts to leave the thing. But no, what I was going to tell you is that, you know, there's 122 volts. They're all over the United States.

That's right. They did say that. Yeah. And there's only, this is. is a weird part. There's only about, I could have the number wrong, but I want to say like 17 that they call them control vaults, which is legitimately, it's a vault that's there to maintain the people so they can someday come up and rebuild society. That's legit. All the other ones are being used in different types of experiments on the people in the vault. So that part

doesn't make sense to me at all. That's just stupid. It's like, I don't know what the hell that. The one where they were having that weird ceremony and the guy with the one eye. That was a control vault. I'm not a control vault. That's a that's an experiment vault where they're obviously they're experimenting. It's like and we death by being released in out and outside world. Yeah. She's like what? Um, yeah. It's that was like I didn't think I would like that and I ended up going like that was very interesting. So the movie. I wonder if there's going to be another one if they're going to continue it. Oh yeah. No, they got a whole there's going to be another series. I mean, they're going to be another season.

Yeah. Wow. It's going to be several more seasons. So, you know, this is crooked, right? Is it crooked? Maybe it's just me. Never mind. You're tilted, but go ahead.

So did you ever see Silo? Is that a movie? No, it's a series. And I want to say Apple. I could be wrong. Maybe it's Amazon. But it's just like the vault. But it's a silo.

It's based on the book, Wull. There was a book, Wool. was self-published and it's taken them literally 10, over 10 years to get it turned into a series. And now it's a series. I watched, we were first season of that. And it's extremely serious. Like, it's not like silly, kind of like, oh yeah, this one was silly. Yeah, it's got some silliness to it. No, no, this is legitimately like this is, there are these massive silos and that, and there's whatever, 60 levels and, you know, you're living within the silo and you're, And so they banish you to the outside world periodically if somebody does something.

Like you can get a few, you know, a little bit of here and there issues. Or you're going to have some problems and they, maybe you go to jail for a week or a month. But if you become such an issue, then they just throw you out. And the biggest problem is that if you actually say you want to go outside, then they immediately banish you to go outside. And of course, you die. On the outside, the outside's fucked up. And then people watch you.

So they'll gather to watch this person go outside in a suit. They give you a suit and like a fucking sandwich and, you know, whatever. Like here, good for you. You got a suit that you can breathe oxygen. The truth is you get out there and they, boom, they die. Because they just don't last long and they die. So you don't really know what's happening. But some people just don't believe it.

They do not believe that there is a, that there's anything wrong with outside. because there was a revolt at one point they lost a chunk of history they've been down there for hundreds of years but it's a great it's a great it was it was based on a book called wool which was huge bestseller and sold and then you never heard about it again and then just a year or so ago they did the series series is fucking amazing all right I might check that one out Nick and I just finished on fallout I usually grab a series at a time just gobble the whole thing out right like three days later it's like all right I'm done it's like Did you just watch nine or 12?

Listen, I've been addicted to that. I started off, what's weird is I started off, the series that got me started was The Flash. I didn't watch The Flash. Oh, my God. And I'm like, like, come on, man, how good. And I watched one season, and it was actually good. I think there's like 13.

13 seasons? Yes. Holy shit. Have you ever watched The Flash? Yeah, I mean, no. Or episodes. You mean seasons or episodes? Seasons.

Oh, wow. I don't know that. Bro, and I'm going to tell you honestly about season five, I'm like, this is fucking good. Like, like, from the, and there's some silly parts, but the drama and the, like the, it's from beginning to end, it's one issue that you're dealing with. And there's a couple of episodes where they drag it out

and they'll just throw some irrelevant shit. Right. But it's all building up to a crescendo, like a battle royale. I have to admit most of the time the Flash's powers are so melodramatic that most of the time that the Battle Royale is, I'm like, like, you can't do that episode three, you know what I'm saying? Um, yeah. Unreal, unreal, but it was, it was pretty good. That's what first got me going, you know, and, and then I did, um, Blacklist and I like, Blacklist is great.

Oh my God. I fell in love with Raymond Relating. I'm like, listen, do you know, I love this dude. Do you know how, the only reason I even started watching it is because when I did, when I did, Oh, he's got your personality. Thank. When I did Danny's, when I did Danny's podcast, guys were leaving, uh, leaving, Raymond Redington. Yeah, they were, uh, comments in the,

comment section, bro, this guy is Raymond Reddington. And I'd seen it so many times, I was like, the fuck is this? Who is Raymond Reagan? And then I text would be like, who is that? Somebody's like, bro, you've got to check out the blacklist. It's you. This guy's you. He's like a super criminal. I'm like, I don't know who you guys think I am. Like, I committed some fraud. And then I'm watching it. I'm like, this guy is a fuck. He's fucking having people murdered. Like, what do you? Well, he murders them themselves. But then the analytical story, he goes, you know, ice cream. Like, I can tell you eight stories that he told. that I'm kind of like, damn.

My favorite one is the one where he was talking about his dad when he worked this summer job and his dad said, did you give you a word, you would stay? This is before he kills somebody. He goes, yeah. So then I stayed there the whole summer and he goes, and the guy gave him like $3,500. Right?

And he goes, why did you give me this money? He goes, you're the only person that ever stayed. You know what I'm saying? Because that's how bad the job was because he goes, I wanted to quit every day. Wow. Yeah. I remember that story

I mean I love that series It's still going on It's actually just did the last season No they canceled it a long time ago No They canceled it Didn't they? Look at it

No they just did the last season The Blacklist They just did the last season They just posted the last season I think maybe they took a break They may have taken a break Because it had a couple of spin-offs

Oh you fuck I didn't know any of that they just did the last season look um last hold on last season concluded on july 13th yeah july 30th 2023 cheesh that's what i'm saying they they they must have just brought it back and did the last season it kind of got out there when he started chasing she started chasing their mom it kind of lost me a little bit because then i'm like like what the hell's going on right there because they did remember they were doing it still in the pandemic because they had a pandemic like a few episodes where they had a pandemic thing where they couldn't get together right just so silly yeah it it lost

me like when she started chasing her mom and then the Russian spot I couldn't make sense I'm like what who gone are the days the first five seasons it's hard to maintain it's hard to maintain a story like oh it it was hitting the toilet rim when he was locked up for that whole season and he was in court And the whole time I'm relating to it, like, I know what that is. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I feel like I'm in jail fighting for this.