Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - American Greed: Where'd Matt Cox Hide the Money

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

American Greed: Where'd Matt Cox Hide the Money

Matt Cox's story has one more mystery. Five million dollars of his loot is still missing, leaving the feds wondering, where's the money? I would love to know the answer to that question. Last time, Zach and I did a review of the Dateline episode that was on me, and now we're going to do a review of the American Greed episode. like date line's a little more provocative and this one's a little more embellished I think this kind of I disagree I think the date line is more

because they're making me sound much worse actually both make me sound bad this one this one's more in an advertising sense it's kind of like people don't watch American greed with the mindset of oh this criminal

they watch it in the mindset of oh that's that's brilliant Yeah, I think it is probably a more, they're both bad. Anyway, in my opinion. I mean, but it's the viewer looks at, yeah, the viewer's point perspective. Okay, we'll see. All right, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see.

We'll check it out. It's not good. In this episode of American Greed. He had millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and more millions. Come on. I like it. I mean, I like it, but I have that my size. I've got to get out of here.

I got to leave. You know, you want to come. The Bonnie and Clyde, the mortgage. You asked her. She wanted to come? See that hairline? Yeah. See that hair line?

It's bad. At that point, I really did. I thought they'll never catch me. In Tampa, Florida, a young man named Matt Cox is making a killing in real estate. He has fast cars, lots of cash. There's always a pretty woman at his side. Part of his character was like this mystery man, like this mysterious, like who is he? James Bond, kind of this.

Allison Arnold is new to Tampa. She's recently divorced, struggling to raise a young son. Allison meets Matt Cox. With it, I know. It's horrible. Get on food stamps. But anyway, go ahead. He had a nice place.

He had really nice furniture. He was just really well connected. His friends were all young and successful. I thought the mortgage business was it. Matt Cox is a mortgage broker, real estate rehabber, an overall renaissance man. He's a talented artist who paint elaborate murals

in all his properties. And he's obsessed with stories about con men. He loved going to the movie theater and we would go and see movies like the one that I fell in love with that we saw was the Italian job. To us.

And he just loved that movie. He's like, I did love that movie. And they got away with it. You know, he loved when people got away with it. Don't break my heart. You told me you were through. After this, I am, I swear. Like his...

Listen, I love that scene. Have you ever seen the Italian job? God, it's been a long time. He calls his daughter, and he's like, I'm in Venice. He says, I'm in Italy, I think. He says, I'm in Italy. And she's like, she goes, with your probation officer's permission, right? He's like, yeah, you know, I like the guy.

It's just not going to work out. Yeah, we never. never really got along. Yeah, you know, I like the guy. Yeah, I do. I love that movie. I love Oceans 11. I, of course, love Catch Me if you can.

I was going to ask you about that one. Oh, my stickman. What about Reservoir Dogs? Yeah, but that's not really a con. That's a bank job. Good point. Heroes in the movie. Matt Cox dreams of doing one big score and then going legit.

Here's the plan. he'll assume fake identities take out multiple mortgage loans on properties he doesn't own did you want to do one big job and get out yeah well hold on they're just not starting from the beginning all i wanted to do is get a million dollars and you know that's not true um but you said it no no they cut this up oh you know so at one point it was like i want to get a million dollars you know and then they clip it along, I can disappear. But I also keep in mind, I already had several million dollars. So it's like, you know, I want to do this one thing, get a million dollars, and they just clip it up.

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protecting me. I value my privacy and yours. All you have to do is go to ORA.com slash Matt to start your two-week free trial. Also, we're going to leave the link in the description box. I was telling Colby about you in this case. So here's the thing. My plan was get, you know, you get a, not, I didn't want $10 million. I wanted a few million dollars. And I was, I had a development company and we're buying vacant lots and we're building new houses. And I was doing that. I was doing that. And that was the plan when I was in Ebor City. We were building like three or four houses. We had like a hundred vacant lots. We got. So our whole thing is we're going to pull out a bunch of money, build these houses, you know, and keep churning that money. And then eventually, you know,

you end up like this development company that was started with a few million dollars is now generating its own money and we don't i don't have that do any fraud so that is kind of my plan when i went on the run same thing i was in nashville initially i was just going to steal a bunch of money and go somewhere else steal a bunch of money and eventually until i had enough money that i didn't have to work or i could just buy a bunch of rental property and just collect money on the rental property but i met this chick Amanda and you'll see her. And she didn't want me to leave. You know, can't we just can't we just keep renovated the houses? I said, well, you know, we could start a development company. We could start building new houses. So that's what we started to do. So my, my master plan kind of changed when I met

her. I decided, you know what? I'll just stay here and I'll just, we'll just start a business and we'll make money at doing that. So because I'm the kind of person that if you gave me $100 million, like, what am I going to do now? Like, I'm still going to do something. I'm still going to do something. I can't do nothing. But what's funny is we were, I was telling Colby, I said, well, that'll, I said, what's good is this one part will spark a conversation because I don't think you've ever talked about this. You may have, but I was talking about how, you know, I think in everybody's kind of mind, if you're smart, you're thinking I'm going to get enough money to do something legit, right? Because you think I can't get away with it forever. And I was telling Colby that I said, listen, I said, Zach was doing the same thing.

Zach had went out and he bought a, or he got a subway. Was it subway? Dominoes. Domino's. Oh, I always say Subway, too. Yeah, you got to like a domino. I always talk about it because it was the cheapest option and we didn't go with the cheapest. You went with Domino's.

Yeah. So you started a Domino's franchise. Yeah. Right? Like, that's pretty. So, and, but what was your, what was your thought process? I'm going to continue to do this forever or I'm going to do this. No, no, just make enough and invest it back into the dominoes.

Like bringing the dominoes up to prominence, like the, the with I wanted it to be a successful one so like I was cheating money in order to advertise men at the school sponsoring games you know throwing you know start throwing money around the community and make sure your spots hot and jumping you know what I'm saying having I wanted a little anyway yeah I had big dreams for the dominoes but with illegal money and to turn the dominoes into something profitable right so if you can you know like any well like most restaurants if you can go three years you know without going under then you pretty much have a

pretty good chance of continuing to be successful. So you just have to dump money in it in advertising for three years. Yep. And hope that it ends up going. But were you thinking, hey, then we'll get another one, we'll get another one. Possibly, yes. And I'll just stop, just, and I'll just stop committing fraud. Oh, no, no, I've possibly definitely thought about opening, moving on to multiple locations

and opening, wherever it took me. That was my goal. It was like, I'm going to put my heart and soul into this and wherever it takes us, it takes us, you know. But, like, started off with, you know, like, you should. said illicit gains right but were you were you thinking at some point i'll be able to stop yes i was gonna yeah okay i like you i wanted a uh a stockpile right you know what i'm saying i wanted enough that i'm gonna invest this and then this is the backup and and we're done yeah that's exactly

that's the whole reason for hiring mary is it's like okay that can keep going and i can just you know sprinkle some input here and there and then i can just focus on my dominoes right you know which which Mary he goes he goes into with what happened with Mary in his story um but yeah like I didn't think one big score it wasn't one big score because I'm making a few hundred thousand here half a million here a hundred thousand here you know eventually you're going to get two or three million dollars right but that's how they started off they make it seem like like they start off in Tampa it's like I say they skip some scenes because it's in Tampa and they go here's the deal Matt was going to get one big score.

And I'm like, I go, they skip some. No, yeah, that's not true. But, you know, they're trying to take a 10 hours, 10 or 20 hours worth of material and jam it into 45 minutes. You know, I've never seen this. So that's my issue. Right. Well, if there's more. Open a legitimate business.

Sell paintings or buy some real estate and rent out apartments or something legit so I didn't have to do anything else. Allison goes to work at Matt Cox's mortgage company. not knowing what no what so that wasn't your plan back then no no this is so they just took part that part that I said is at the very end right so they took five years later six years later and at the very end they're like well what was your plan like you're been on the run you're this and I'm like listen I was just planning on getting like a million dollars you know a you know really a few million dollars um and then just go buy apartments uh collect the rent you know maybe do paintings being an artist like I don't know like you know I'm just saying

that so they thought okay great we can clip that and that gives us the motive and then we'll run with that because they can't explain all of it correct that's what I'm saying and they started off in Tampa that was never your no no no in Tampa it was it was definitely that's what I'm saying they're yeah well that's what they do all right let let them do that's not the only problem I have with this in store for her just a few weeks later Cox calls in a favor when Allison was down on her luck. He helped her out. He rented an apartment for Allison and bought her new furniture. Now it's payback time. He's like, Allison, I'm helping you and my investors are helping you so that we have your loyalty, so that you'll do anything for us. I don't know that's a lie.

Yeah, that conversation. How did they get her to say that? His partner in crime, he wants are to assume a fake identity and apply for a mortgage loan. Not once or twice, but seven times with seven different banks. He's already stolen an identity for him. Right. So that part's true. Is it really? What? Well, I'm sure you didn't say, I need you to do. Oh, no, no, no. Let's do seven. No, no. That was what ended up happening. No, no, no. What's not, what's not true is like, I don't recall I don't recall having that conversation like you need to be loyal to me you need like I don't recall that conversation like this is a this is a woman who is going through a divorce she was desperate to try and get out of she still has because she has no money she's living with

her husband she's like I'm living with the guy I'm trying to get divorced you know I I I'm done and and so she's dating me I'm like she's dating me staying the night or staying over having sex and leaving, going back to her husband, like, I'm not good with that. And not only I'm not good with that, but, you know, look, she sees that we're making money. She knows that I'm making money. She knows I'm doing fraudulent activities. And, you know, she's like, look, you know, I need to make some money. How can I help with what you're doing?

Well, you really can't. Does that make sense? Like, so I've got a, I've got a system here. For me to, for you to enter into the system and take a piece when I don't need you, like, I've got a system that's working and we're making 100. of thousands of dollars every month. The only thing that you could do is I could help you run a con that's maybe different from mine. My scam was great.

I buy a house. I buy a house cheap. I do minor renovations. I record the value of the house five times as high as I bought it, right? Let's say I buy it for 40 or 50. I get it to appraise for 200. I have a synthetic identity come in and borrow money into the house, make a few payments, let it go into foreclosure.

I don't need you for that. I already have the fake buyers. I already have the houses. There's nothing you can do. Now, and the great thing about that scam was that once the house was foreclosed on, the bank doesn't realize they've been scammed. So I can do this forever. I don't need you.

Or at least I can do it for as long as I need to pull out that money and then I just stop doing it because it is semi risky, right? Like, who knows what could happen? Now, I didn't believe that at the time. But I thought it was foolproof practically. Because every time I got caught, I got out of it. But I figure, look, at some point, something might go wrong. And I don't want to do this forever. I want to take this money turned into a development company. So she comes and says, look, how can I make some money helping you? I don't need your help. So I said, look, here's what we could do. We could just set up a whole other scam and get like a million dollars, right? And so we'll buy one house in a fake identity's name, refinance it seven times. We'll get about a million dollars. We'll split the million dollars. And then we'll let it go into foreclosure. But the, the FBI is going to show up and they're going to look like in my scam now nobody shows up

nobody knows there was a scam committed obviously that's not what happened ultimately but that's what I told her that I'll have you do one and when the FBI shows up we just need to make sure we've covered our tracks so well they can't pinpoint you or me or anybody perfect she's perfectly okay with that and I said I even have an identity from a woman named Rosita Perez where a friend of mine named Susan, this woman, Rosita had lived with her and screwed her over. She did like $10,000 according to Susan. She took like a knife and like cut her furniture, like cut the, you know, just did a bunch of damage to the house and everything.

So she's pissed at her. And before, and Susan's telling her you got to get out of the house. And one day when Susan comes home, she's moved all her stuff out and taken a knife and gutted her couch, gutted her furniture, just trash the fucking out. She did at least $10,000 for the damage, broke windows, did everything. everything. Okay. So Susan's like, but I have her information. She's like, how can I fuck this chick over? How can we get, figure out how I can get 10 grand out? And I was, at the same time, Allison shows up and I said, you know what we could do. I'll have Allison pretend to be her,

buy a house, get six or seven mortgages, we'll get a million dollars. I'll give you 20 or 30 grand. And then when it all comes down to it, hopefully the FBI won't figure it out because I'm positive they won't. I don't go talk to her. Or they'll go talk to the... They'll talk to Rosita Perez. If she looks at a picture of Allison, she doesn't know who Allison is. She's going to be like, I don't know who that person is. You know, does anybody have your information?

If they said, yeah, Susan Barker, Susan Barker's not involved. You can look at her, you know what I'm saying? Like, none of this is going to... We're using all drop phones. Like, there's nothing that leads there. If you came in the office and looked in the office, like none of the loans closed here. There's nothing. And we did it in Clearwater.

It's like an hour and a half drive. right so point is i set that whole thing up for and alison's ready to go she's ready to do it and we actually closed several loans so i don't know what happens next but i'm saying that's what go ahead and i was just going to say and they twisted that to uh in order for you to that i'm basically like extorting her and the other thing is too by the way after he after he took her out of the chokehold she agreed i'll do it all right well well the other thing they they don't you know they say she he he got her an apartment got her um and got her a bunch of furniture i did because i was like listen here's what i'm going to do i went and bought a bunch of furniture on credit cards for from

synthetic identities right so this guy's got a 10 000 credit card this guy's got a 15 000 let's go we'll go to wherever and let's go buy you a couch go buy you for so we i get a i furnish an entire two bedroom two bath apartment in a brand new apartment complex i pay the first and first and second month's rent i put the deposit down because he's got nothing boom you're good for a couple months now so she's like holy shit like i met this guy i fucked this guy for about two weeks and now boom he puts me in an apartment and she can pay for it by the way because it was like back then the rent you know that rent the rent now would probably be two thousand dollars a rent back then was like thousand you know wow so she can pay a thousand dollar a month rent in

this place for her and she's got a son he can come over and she's only a few miles from where her husband lives and she starts the divorce process so that's where we were but she desperately wanted, she desperately wanted to make some money. And I've got a way where you can make half a million dollars. But it's fraud. It's fraud. And she knows it. No problem. The Perez, a real person who supposedly crossed a friend of his. The funny thing is, is, look at me. I've got bluish, green eyes. I had blonde hair at the time, pale skin, and I was portraying to be Rosita Perez, the bankers, the bankers, the closer for the title company, they're like,

how'd you get this name? You're not Puerto Rican or Spanish, are you? And my license said I had brown eyes, and I clearly didn't. Maybe Allison looks too innocent to pull off a con. Whatever the reason, the first time she tries it, she's successful. She walks away from the bank with a check for $117,000. This is surveillance footage of Allison. footage of Allison trying to deposit

the check. Okay, you see her hair? Yeah. I was the girl that went to the bank. Okay, so her hair's dark, dark brown. But the day before the closing, she actually, I don't know about the brown eyes thing. I don't think that's true, because I don't know that I wouldn't have, I made the license

she walked in with. Right. And she opened up a bank account. So, but she had blonde streaks in her hair. So she goes and turns it brown with blonde, all these blonde streaks. I remember you didn't like that. You're like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? Like, look at the picture on

it. It's almost, almost black. It's dark, dark, dark brown in the photo of your ID. And now you walk in with blonde hair. Like, you already don't look Puerto Rican. And now you're walking and you've got green eyes, you know. So it was more that I think the hair that I was upset about. On the license, it didn't say, I do not, I do not recall it saying, I don't think, I can't imagine I would have said brown eyes because she doesn't have brown eyes. Right. And if it did, and it wouldn't have anyway. made the license, I would have made brown. I would have said green. But anyway. So, but it was definitely the hair was a problem. And I gave the check to the teller. I would say, okay, deposit

this into my account. And then I'd go slowly to pull the money out week after week. Supposedly. We never got that far. The check wouldn't clear the bank because the driver's license was fake. Allison tries other banks, but none will take it. Yeah, she couldn't open a bank account. This scheme is spoiled, Cox has it given up the dream of doing one big score and living the rest of his days on a beach in the Caribbean. Of course. Yeah, but this part, look. All you ever talked about. Out there.

And what he wanted was money, money, money, money. He didn't care who he hurt, who he stepped on, or what he had to do in order to get it. Matt Cox and Allison break up, and Cox goes looking for another woman to play Bonnie to his Clyde. He's very, you know, charming. In the beginning, he told me how much he cared about me and loved. Okay, I don't believe in that. The charming part's true. So, okay, here's, I'll explain this real quick.

Okay, so, do you see how they say, oh, we couldn't cash the check? well and then she's then they they ended but the truth is she was like what about Travis so I had a buddy named Travis Hayes we were doing the same scam in Orlando she says Travis has a bunch of bank accounts let's have Travis deposit the check and I'm saying we're done it's over because what she doesn't mention is she got one check she goes to another title company does another closing at that closing the woman says this doesn't look like you and won't give her the check. She lets her sign, but she says, I'm going to hold the check. I'm going to make some phone calls. I don't feel comfortable with giving you the check right now. I'll call you in a couple

days. I'll let you know. And Allison's like, okay, whatever, and leaves. And she comes, goes to jumps in the car. She's like, I don't know. She said I didn't look like the picture, but it was her. The picture was her. She's like, didn't look like. I was like, fuck, you know, I'm thinking you changed your hair. Fuck. So she's like, well, let's go deposit this check. Let's go open a bank account and we'll deposit the check. And I'm like, no, it's done. We're done. So one, we're done. And two, when we go to the bank they won't open an account for her right so then um so then what happens is she says well let's go deposit the let's go have travis deposit the check and i'm like no don't you understand that closing we just had is a problem that woman's going to make some phone calls it's not going to be

that hard for her to figure she may find out that this is all scam what she does she ends up calling the original owner and he says i didn't sell this house he says he goes what do you mean he Because I, I, she, my renter's name is Rosita Perez. See, we had transferred the deed into Rosita Perez. He's like, and I have a mortgage. They're like, nope, there's no mortgage on the property. And Rosita Perez owns it. And she borrowed, she just borrowed a mortgage on it.

And the other mortgage was like 110,000. So, so she makes, starts making a few phone calls. They end up pulling her, pulling her credit. They see that there's a bunch of inquiries from other lenders. They call those lenders. Those lenders say, yeah, we're closing. one on Tuesday. We're closing one on Wednesday. We're closing one on Wednesday also. Finds out that this other person, oh, we already closed a loan. We gave her a check for $117,000.

So they call the bank and they put a red flag on the on the check. Allison insists, I'm telling you, I want to go and give it to Travis. Let's have him deposit. I'm like, I'm telling you, I feel like it's fucked up. But once again, that was easy for me to say, right? I have plenty of money. I'm not broke. She's broke. She's living in a brand new apartment. She does have some money, right? But it's not like I'm giving her, I want to say at some point, this guy's going to say something like, sounds like he was controlling you with the money. She's saying, I need, I'm broke. I'm giving her $1,000, $500, $1,000. Like, am I controlling her? I just bought her an apartment full of furniture, got her two months free fucking rent, put down the deposit, got her electric and

water turned on. Like, how much am I supposed to do for you? And she's still giving, give me, give me, give me, give me. Right. So I don't, you know, so whatever. Well, before you start. Okay. Now, she gave the check to Travis. Oh, yeah, gave the check to Travis.

Travis deposits it. And then like, she gave it to him. Yeah, Travis met us at the, at the, at the mortgage place or the development company. She called him or you called Travis. Who? I may have called him and say, hey, look, here, I'm going to tell you what's going on. I explain it to him. And he's like, I go, can you come by?

He goes, sure. So he comes by. Well, I think he came by. I said, I basically called him. I wouldn't talk to him on phone typically. I'd say, hey, can you come by? You go, yeah, sure. He comes by and Allison's there and we explain what happens. And Travis goes, well, you think I should deposit it? I'm like, no, I don't. And Allison's saying it's fine, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. And Travis is like, yeah, I don't see them putting this together, bro. I think you're, I think you're paranoid. And look, I probably was paranoid, right? But doesn't mean you're wrong. So, so anyway, they gives, she gives him. the check. He deposits it. Back then, you could deposit a check. You had to wait. You know, it wasn't like, oh, boom, it's $400 available right now and tomorrow the whole thing will be available. You still have to wait four or five days or ten days or something. So a week later, she's asking me like, hey, what's going on with the check? What's going on with the check? Did Travis call? I'm like, I don't know. Hold on. I call Travis. Hey, what's going on? He

is, okay, tell Allison to calm down. He says, I'm not getting any money. I got a phone call from the bank, manager. He said he asked me to come in so he could witness. witness me endorsed the back of the check. And keep mind, it's a check made out to her. She's endorsed it, but he endorsed it also and deposited it. And I said, that doesn't make sense, Travis. He said, no, no, he said any checks over $100,000 have to witness the endorsement. I've, I've deposited checks for fake people for $150, $200, $210,000 into my bank out.

I've never had to have them witness anything. And I said, Travis, that doesn't sound right. So I tell him that exactly. And he goes, no, it's fine. I said, no, bro. I said, honestly, I'm telling you right now. I think that, I think you're going to be arrested. I think that the cops are waiting for you.

She's saying, no, no, no, that's not true. You know, because she's thinking, fuck, I need some money. You know, she's about to get $50,000 out of $117. She's going to get about $50. So she's pumped. You know, we're going to give Susan 10 and give her, you know, 30 over the next few loans and she'll be happy. we're going to, Allison's splitting it. She's about to get 50 fucking grand.

So she's like, go sign the check. So, and I'm, as I'm talking to Travis, he's driving. And I go, look, don't go to the bank. The cops are waiting for you. And I've never forget to his, bro, I just pulled in the parking lot. There's no cops here. Like they're going to have six patrol cars sitting in the parking lot, right? Waiting the whole time.

With their lights on. And I go, no, no, no. I yell at him. Don't go in the bank. Don't go in the bank. I remember he tells, I'll never forget. He said, you're shaky. Boy, listen to you, bro.

you're shaking like a little fucking girl and he just started laughing he said it'll be fine and hung up so it's kind of like okay these two are out of control but keep in mind too i look back and i think well how come you had so how come you were so confident i've got hundreds of thousands of dollars of the bank my bills are paid so i i don't have to be risky you know that i'm i'm i don't have to take risks like that and at this point i'm now you know i'm now the puppeteer right like if something goes wrong now like it's it's on you like you're the one who's going to get arrested so he goes in the bank he gets arrested they were in the bank they were waiting for him he gets arrested he gets arrested he immediately cooperates and they start a task force so between because now we've got

Orlando Clearwater Hillsboro County so he explains here's what's going on there's this guy Matt Cox he's running a scam he pulls up public records shows them all the houses I bought that are all foreclosure. You know, you got a guy named James Red buys five houses they go into foreclosure. A guy named Lee Black buys six houses they go into foreclosure. A guy named Brandon Green buys five houses they go into foreclosure. He was able to provide all that information. You could pull it up on Hillsborough County property appraisers website. Think about James Red, Hillsborough County. Boom, here's a list of them. He can name them off right there and you can see right there foreclosure, foreclosure, foreclosure, foreclosure. Yeah, but what about the other people? Did he know the other people?

Yeah, he knew exactly what I was doing. I got a big mouth. Like, he knew what I was doing. First of all, he's doing a lot of, he does construction work. So he's doing construction work on these properties. Right. So he knows, and he knows James Redd. He knows what he's, he was my best friend growing up.

So I felt comfortable telling him this, right? And so he knows what he's happening because he's running a scam in Orlando. He's using the name Michael White and William Blue, I think. He'd already bought two houses in those names. He's already borrowed half a million dollars. So he's fully aware what's aware of what's going on. Oh, okay. Anyway, so at that point, so they remove all that.

Obviously, they can't go over all that. They just say, oh, the check, they can't open a bank account and it's over. But it's not over. What happened is now what's happened is we gave them check to Travis. There's a whole task force. I don't know there's a task force being going on. But then they just immediately jump to Rebecca. So I'll explain what.

So here's Becky. So she says that she was not in any way. coerced or or I don't think so other than the fact that let's face it she wanted money I had money like I don't think I had that so all they got was a struggling parent yeah I'm not I'm not really a strong arm person like first of all I know what your weaknesses are I know that you know I'm not saying I'm not manipulative I obviously manipulated the hell out of her right she was in a position to be manipulated right plus I'm fucking her she sees the money she sees how long have you been you've been doing this for years and yeah but she's she's already out on the limb though she's she's she's willing

Yeah, I'll do that. And then it's kind of like, oh, it's blown a stuff. She's like, no, no, no, not quite. Yeah, well, I mean, she's desperate. Yes, that's the word I'm looking for. Here, let's say, so. Let's go with somebody that's not desperate. Yeah, no, she's, she's desperate.

But what's funny is, yeah, so they just end it here where they say, like, oh, they broke up and that's it. Well, that's not what happened at all. I understand. We weren't really dating anyway. We just been fucking for a couple months. Anyway, hold on. Rebecca Hawk is another single mom who's fallen under the spell of Matt Cox. Her story does not have a happy ending.

But it begins with promise. All of his friends had a brand new car, gorgeous homes. I mean, and I'm thinking, how the heck is, I'm barely making it. Sure, I'm a single mom, but... Single mom. That's my buddy, Travis. Yep. Diminutive.

It's just a mean word. Who's that? Oh, that's Janipote. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Look, look, did you see my dog? Look, right there. Yes. Look, there's my little dog.

See him? That's Cracker. Oh. I lived in a neighborhood, and I owned most of the houses in the neighborhood, right? But it was predominantly a black neighborhood, and Cracker would run around. Cracker, come here. Cracker. So.

You're like, well, what do y'all want? You're going. This has got to be Janapote. Janapote was a... Janipote owned her own private gym. She was a full-time trainer. Like, she trained people. Listen, you ever seen a chick with abs?

I mean, she was thin. She was probably only 115 pounds. But super muscular abs. I mean, just, you know, I like the little... We both had... Look, Superman. Oh, cute. I know.

I know. How corny. I would never do that now, by the way. He was very persuasive as far as how we handle things and talk to people and got things taken care of. And he was in charge of a lot. So I liked that. I liked that he could, you know, the way he handled things.

You were sitting. Matt Cox grew up in Tampa. He showed an early promise in art and studied art in college. in college. In an exclusive phone interview with American greed, Cox says he always knew art was no way to get rich quick. I mean, I never expected to be an artist, because I guess, I don't know,

I just didn't think I was ever going to be good enough or make enough money as an artist to survive. His real talent is the art of the card, and the knack for finding the perfect sight. Did you ever paint that, the art of the clay world? They were single mothers, divorced, they had money problems. They met him, by and large, on online dating services, where he came across as this sort of smart, well-to-do mortgage broker, you know, who's artistic and really has a great sense

of humor and drives a nice car. I think that the women, while vulnerable, wanted a piece of the pie as well. you could tell that I was, you know, someone that wouldn't tell on him, and, you know, he could, but in the meantime, he's offering me all this money and saying he wants to take care of my son and I, send Bryce to a private school. And I'm thinking, you know, okay, finally, you know, I can, I met someone that I knew this took like a month and a half. Before you left. Yeah, with her. And not really paying attention to the, or not wanting. Sensationalize it. To what he was doing and how he was doing it. Matt Cox decides Rebecca Hawke is the ideal partner.

He shows her a good time. Charming it. And takes her to a movie that could be about his own life. We saw Matchstick Man and it's about a con. You're a con man? Con artist. Flim Flam Man, Maststick Man, loser, whatever you want to call, take your pick. A lot of it was probably me just wanting to overlook it more so than being realistic and thinking,

OK, what are you getting involved in here? In Tampa, a rogue mortgage broker named Matt Cox is assuming fake identities to take out multiple mortgage loans on properties he doesn't own, pocketing the money, and making millions in the process. The year is 2003. In a red-hot real estate market, the con man hides in plain sight. Everybody was getting rich.

Everybody was flipping property. Jeff Testerman is an investigative reporter with the St. Petersburg Times. This guy. I was going to say something about him. He wrote about 30-something, 33, 34 articles. On you? He's the one I read when I was in Hillsborough County. And I said, I want to meet this guy.

And I went to a courthouse and got the documentary evidence to show that he was telling the truth. Testerman's source says that Matt Cox, the artist, is used to. using a palette of fake names. I called them color-coded aliases. Charles White, James Red, Brandon Green. Matt Cox had a sense of humor about these things. Cox uses the aliases to create sham real estate transactions. There were several that nothing was authentic on the deed.

He created a phony buyer and a phony seller. When you've got that going, you can pretty much do anything you want to with the price and the mortgage. In 2003, money is loose, and so are lending standards. Cox applies for loans online, and he uses his artistic talent to forge any document he needs to support the loan. He fakes driver's licenses, W-2s, checking accounts, and Cox even bragged. about stealing the identities of homeless people. I ordered a social security car. I ordered everything.

Went inside DMV for three hours, and they gave me a driver's license. That's Gary Sullivan. It was easy. I don't feel like that's bragging. You're making a statement. Mortgage statement. A mortgage statement,

a document that says Cox owns a property free and clear. It's signed by two witnesses, Lee Cook, and Jimmy Balls, their characters dreamed up by Cox. Who's Lee Cook? The two witnesses, Balls and Cook. I think Cox's shorthand on this would be, you know, I'm really cooking the books with this deal. Stop. It really takes balls to do it.

No. Oh, hey, he figured it out. That's silly. He figured out. That's not true. To most banks, it looks legit. And Cox can take out mortgages on a property. that he doesn't even own.

The person that's living in the property is still making the payments, so it's not drawing any kind of red flag or anything. So that's what he would do. And you just get someone that's working at the courthouse doesn't, you know, they're not paying attention, and you have the satisfaction sent back to you and it shows that you own it.

By the end of 2003, Cox has done 90 fraudulent real estate deals totaling almost $4 million. Really? You think that's accurate? But at the St. Petersburg Times, Jeff Testament is about to... So it was... Boy, I wish that was accurate, by the way. $4 million would be nice. I'm saying $90.

No, Spouten probably is $90, but they hit me for $11.5 million. Now, when they says $4 million, it's probably... I probably personally made $4 million. Because you have to think out of the 11, I have to buy the house, renovate the house. And then when I get money, I have to share that money. Like Rudy gets some money, Dave gets some money, like the investor. Like everybody's getting some money.

Right. So I might have made $4 million, but it was more like $11 because it was $11.5 is what I agreed to admit to to the FBI when I took off on the run. Just Tampa. Just Tampa. Yeah. Or Florida. Not just Tampa. No, just Tampa because I also borrowed money.

90 in Tampa, you think? Or total? In Newark City. No, no, in Ybor City. Because they say it's 109, but I don't think it's. is I think it's closer to nine I think it that statement is misleading I think it's closer to 90 and I think it's closer to me making a personally making about four million you bought those houses up in Ebor City yeah the ones that they were like right now would be right behind um what is the

the street down there the where Ebor uh oh you're 7th avenue yeah like you know where all the bars are yeah yeah there used to be houses right behind there when I was a kid I've owned I've I actually owned a house that's still there I a lot of these things houses we can drive by and you can still see that house like I own that house some of these houses I bought and sold multiple times I'm straining my brain to figure out who I knew that used to live right but I went to their house in high school right that house would be worth a lot of money right now of course same houses that I're gone well the same houses that I was buying and selling that I'm sorry the same houses I would buy for 50,000 and you could sell it you could probably sell it

legitimately between 100 to 150,000 let's say legitimately I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm saying that's what the average would go for between 100 to 150. Now those same houses are legitimately going for 300 to 350,000. Those gingification going on down there. They're gone. And this was complete hood. There was maybe one or two bars. It's still hood. It is kind of. Yeah. But it's not what it was. Oh, no. Even the streets were garbage. No, no. When I was growing up, probably 10 years prior to this, like, you basically get almost guarantee you might get mugged going to Ebor City. I mean, it was bad.

Like, it was bad. Until they came in, they rebuilt Centro Ebor. Yes. Yeah. Then it changed. But not that much. But then, like, they were still living behind. Yeah.

Because when I left for college, that Ebor was building up, but right behind it was still the houses. Yeah, you could walk to that. I'm trying to remember. You could walk three blocks. You can walk three blocks. Yeah, and be right in the hood. Right.

Go to print with a major expose of Cox's scheme. Cox catches wind that he's about to be front page news. That's the article I read. Dubious deals. Dubious deals. You don't have that article? I got upstairs. I was in Hillsborough County Jail the day that article came out.

Rebecca Hawke has known Matt Cox for just six weeks. Six weeks. At best. By to him and hello to life as a fugitive. Incredible. It was so hard. And I was crying hysterically. And Bryce is like, Mom, you'll see me in two weeks.

And Matt's standing there. And I'm crying. And I'm thinking, okay. And then when Bryce got on the plane, Matt's like, you'll see him. It'll be okay. You're going to be able to see him as much as you want. So let me tell you about that. lie. I did not go to the airport. That always kills me because I didn't go to the airport.

Well, somebody was there and lied there. I'm just, I didn't go to the airport. What happened was she had stayed the night. Her son was at the end of the year, she told, this is what she told me. She said when she was trying to convince me to let her come with me. Right. When you were trying to talk her out of it. Right. I was trying to say, you don't need to do this. You don't need to come with him. You have a child. Right. Yeah. She, you have your kids. You have your parents. Like, you have a job and then she explains to me like listen you have no i like look first of all the only reason i'm in tampa so she'd come she'd move to st peter she was like the only reason i even moved here is because she was working for a lawyer i told you said this on the last one she was working for a lawyer

he caught her embezzling whatever 10 15000 dollars and was couldn't fire her and didn't want to call the cops because he was sleeping with her and he was married so he they he had her he got one of his clients to hire her and move her to St. Petersburg to start her life over, stay away from me, right? So she ends up now her... Does she tell you that? Yeah, she told me all this. Bryce, her son, her ex-husband had raised him in Vegas. So she talks her ex-husband into letting her take Bryce. So Bryce is like 12 or 13. So he comes and lives with her. They had only been in Tampa a few months and within three or four months he's been caught sneaking out of the house he's been caught after curfew multiple times he got caught smoking pot and she's like I can't

control him his grades are failing I can't control him she was he she'd already talk to the ex-husband and said look at the end of the school year I'm going to have I'm going to bring him and let I'm going to let you keep him right so he's already leaving at the end at the end of the school year but instead what happens is she's like look I'm going to put him on a plane He was supposed to go back to visit his father for Christmas anyway. Right. He just doesn't know he's not coming back. She's leaving.

And even then, at the end of the year, he was leaving anyway. But I didn't even go. Like, I'm not going. Like, I got no reason to go. Like, I'm fucking trying to do shit, trying to get stuff together to leave. So. She's crying, Matt, about parting with her son. So the other funny thing is the dubious deal article, they make it sound like,

So they make it sound like, they make it sound like this article came out and then I took off. No. When in fact, I took off. The article doesn't, the article says you're missing.

Right. Yeah, I was going to say the article comes out after I take off on the run. But they don't say that here. They change it. Because obviously it's more complicated than that. I remember that article.

You know, one of the big reasons I remember that article? It's because when I saw it, I thought that was a spot that I lived in. I'm like, I think that's, oh, no, no, no, it's not it. But go ahead. No, that's definitely not.

I lived in a, like, stairs like that on a house right behind North A Street. And what's there? On the other side of Kennedy Boulevard? Yeah, no. This is off Tampa Street. In 2003, Testament series dubious deals hits the newsstands. They gave the date and everything. The reporter details of fraud worth more than $4 million.

But Matt Cox is gone. He was never seen in Tampa again, ever. The trail went cold for me for a while. Where Cox was, I didn't know. The people who know him best assume he's fled the country. They think he's gotten on the cruise ship, and he's headed to some island south. Cox's ex-girlfriend, Allison Arnold, is among those asking questions. I always wondered, you know, what happened to them.

Where are they? Allison has not been caught for her role in one of Cox's scams. Six months earlier, she poses as Rosita Perez and takes out fraudulent home loans. Though the police have not yet come knocking on her door, Allison is worried. She knows the heats on. I was a nervous wreck. I got a job as a waitress because I couldn't work for any bank. My hands would shake.

my conscience was so heavy. Allison decides to call the FBI. So I spilled my guts out, said everything. Allison tells the feds everything she knows to help them catch cocks. Allison thinks her cooperation will buy her immunity from prosecution. She's wrong. Eventually she's sentenced to two. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that doesn't

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Really, I had no knowledge. of everything that I was totally doing, but I followed along and did something, yes, and I know it was illegal, yes. You know, everybody knows that right and wrong inside, but I just, I didn't think the consequences would be like this. While Allison faces prison, Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawk head to Atlanta.

Atlanta is one of the hardest hit cities by mortgage fraud. Is it? It's about to get worse. I'd heard that somewhere. fell for so hard and so fast, he just made you think that it was no big deal, that, you know, what he was doing was fine. And then he would say, if it ever comes to it, just blame me. You don't, you won't get a job. I'll take the blame for everything. Because I'm going to blame you.

We'll point the finger at each other. Make it confusing. He used to tell me that people believed women more than they believed men. Hawk, using the name Grace Hudson, poses as a single woman looking to rent this. house in Alpharetta, a suburb of Atlanta. Is that really the house? Yeah. He meets with the owner, Michael Shanahan. He and I talked for a while, and he was, you know, he was very nice.

And that was a heart, because he was the only person that I really met face to face. Grace Hudson, Rebecca's alias, rents the home. And Matt Cox takes over the landlord's identity. What I did was I used a child social security number and I went and got some credit cards in his name. in his name, went and opened some bank accounts, hoping that none of this would hit Michael Shanahan's credit. Which it didn't. Michael Shanahan, the owner of this $200,000 house,

Cox goes looking for money. Well, I met the fellow calling himself Michael Shanahan at the front door here. John Holman is not a faceless bank. He lends his own hard-earned money to people who money to people who need short-term loans. I was there primarily to see the condition of the house. At the time, it didn't occur to me

to wonder about his identity or anything to that effect. Cox, posing as Michael Shanahan, tells Holman he wants to borrow money against the equity in his home. That's true? Yeah. That's the guy. He's a hard money lender. Oh, yeah, yeah.

The story was that he owned a house free and clear and wanted to borrow money against it to start a business. He had just moved back from the U.K., wanted to start a business, and needed $110,000 or so. Is that true with it? I think it was like $150. I thought it was $150. I think he'd only lend $110.

Holman has no idea. Cox is also talking to a friend of his. On what they call a hard money lender, I'd lend money mostly to other investors and buying properties to renovate and resell. I called three of them. Cox tells people. Peter St. Martin, he wants $106,000 to start a business.

To St. Martin, Shanahan seems like a sure thing. It was a 50% loan to value loan up in Alpharetta, Georgia, in a beautiful neighborhood. Very low risk. Both lends do their home. Very low risk. So I let him put the noose around my neck. I mean, what could happen?

His ID. And he had to actually more than the normal He had a Florida driver's license. He had a credit card and a Social Security card, all in the name Michael Shanahan. So everything checked out, and we made the loan, thinking that we had secure interest in the property. A month later, Peter St. Martin realizes

Michael Shanahan has missed his first loan payment. John Holman is in the same boat, but neither man is worried. Each thinks he's the first in line to foreclose. to foreclose if necessary. And I'm happy about it, and I'm looking forward to taking back this collateral and selling it very quickly at a very nice profit. Although we don't do these loans with the purpose for getting the house back,

it's not necessarily a disaster for us. But Matt Cox will have the last laugh. That's why I remember... So here's what's funny is that they were just two, there was actually three. There was another... There was actually a third loan? Yeah, there was a third hard- money guy, I guess he couldn't, he would probably wouldn't come on the program. So they just don't

mention him. Oh. No. But anyway, yeah, there was three. Wow. Something. I just met them and somehow I'm like, yeah. I'm kind of saying, well, where is your property? You know, because you do most. So John and I were chatting and mentioned that, yeah, I did this loan. You're not going to, you know, this guy, first month to fall, blah, blah, blah. I don't know what rang a familiar bell there, but I asked Peter what street was the loan on. Mine was Kingham and you're like, oh no. I said, oh oh, oh. It's the same property.

Same dress. And I said, what was the guy's name? And he said, Michael Shanahan, and you said, uh-oh. Unbelievable. Well, and the fact that he borrowed money from you and me, we both know each other. I sat there during the rest of the concert thinking that I was probably out $110,000 and not real happy about it. John Holman called the U.S. attorneys are fine. Of course.

I tell you, I'm sorry. means that something the old me is like stick it to the man we protect the president and former presidents but we also deal with any kind of financial crime anything that affects the financial infrastructure of the united states special agent andrea peacock doesn't know who michael shanahan and grace hudson really are it was john and jane doe and when we obtained our initial warrants for the two they were in the name of John and Jane Doe. I wonder why the Secret Service creates a wanted poster and eventually tracks down a former associate. I mean, she's obviously in on it. She rented the property. And keep in mind too,

by this point, they realized, so she rented the property. She also opened up bank accounts. So the money, I'm, we're putting money into her accounts and Michael Shanahan's accounts and other people. Lots of people's accounts were putting money into it. Okay, okay. That explains it. That is, because like, renting a house doesn't necessarily mean she's involved. Right. But laundering the money does. Yeah, it does. You got to clarify, you please.

So it's conspiracy to commit, thankful. Cox is in Tampa. Please identify the crimes. He did. In fact, no, who he was and told us his name was Matthew Bevin Cox. Agent Peacock learns that Matt Cox has taken out three loans on Shanahan's property. For a total take of more than $300,000. Three loans.

Peter St. Martin is out of love. his titled insurance will not cover the loss that true they did they paid him eventually luckily luckily I'm a multi-millionaire so in Peacock talks to the real Michael Shanahan who realizes he's a victim of identity theft semi credit cards and checking accounts have been taken out in his name and And then there's the statue that Cox left behind the We've seen the stat, we've heard about the statue. Of course.

He told me that he felt like he was leaving it behind on purpose because that was the way he felt when he saw that statue realized what Cox had done to him. Not true. Not true. That's not true. What would you, pause it, what would you say was the purpose of the statue? Just to clear the air.

No, honestly, I just, I just, I, I, I just did a paper mache stuff. I'm bored. I have nothing to do. This fraud is not full time, right? Like we set it up and you have to wait. And that took a while to set up, right? Like that, from beginning to end, what is that?

60, 90 days? Something like that, yeah. So, but so we're not doing anything. Like, we're, Becky and I are going, like, we went to, like, Mexico. We went to, um, Vegas. We went to, um, Jamaica. We went to, like, we're traveling all over the place. We're, you know, just like you're just, you just can't hang out in the bedroom until, until suddenly they record the satisfaction of mortgage or until you can't do that.

So, you know, we're rock climbing and we're just doing a bunch of different stuff. We traveled to Charlotte, North Carolina. We rented another apartment. So we had somewhere to go when we took off from here. We wanted to have a place, a rented there, fully furnished. So we spend a couple days in Charlotte, right? We go to Charlotte. We rent, we're buying $30.

$40,000 worth of furniture, we fill up an apartment. So we've got a place ready. So when we get our money here, we bolt over there. So it all comes down and it all falls apart in Atlanta, but we're already in Charlotte, South Carolina, North Carolina. Right. So, um, and keep in mind, too, Becky also had done another, we, this isn't the only one we did. We did a few others. She'd already borrowed like 60 grand in someone else's name. So that's another reason that she deposited that check into her account. So it's like, it's obvious like, okay, clearly she's doing the same thing he's doing but they don't ever get into anything she does

well okay what was the purpose of the statue oh the statue was nothing I was just it was just something to do I mean it's it's of the what did they call it the scream the screen yeah yeah it's probably a better version of the scream by Edward Edward Munch that yes so your version would have been better yeah because his is you ever seen his is like

it's like it's silly melting face I know it's silly but I like so I I kind of I had actually seen that someone do this in a movie. And I always liked the statue. And it was a paper mache. And they compare it to Edward Munches the scream. So I thought, oh, fuck it.

I got some time. I'll make one. The problem was when we left, we were driving like a Honda Element. And so we packed all our shit in the Honda Element, and it didn't fit. I even had to remove the back seat, and I left the back seat of the Honda Element in the garage. and I left the statue in the garage and we cleaned up the whole place. Now, all the bedroom furniture, we actually broke it down and put it in the garage. Like the house was perfectly clean.

He says when he got there, the statue was in the middle of the living room, that there was all the documents, the fraud documents, were scattered all around it. And the place was trashed. Like, it wasn't trashed. We lived in the bedroom. So it wasn't trashed. There was, all the documents and stuff that I had were basically just in a pile sitting in, uh, in the kitchen on the counter, I think. And the statue was in the, was in the garage. But that's not what he says. He says, oh, it was in there. He staged this whole thing. Like I was taunting him. But I wasn't haunting him. But his description. It is great. It's a great description. It makes me sound like a. It makes me sound like a month. It definitely makes me feel like a man. Get a man credit for putting that in his mind. Yeah. This guy. I'm not saying I don't deserve any less. Clearly. I. I deserve it, but, you know, it's inaccurate. But that's fine.

I get it. I get it. Hold on. Here's Becky. As a trail to see, this is what I've done. He's just like, try and catch me. You can't. Plush with cash, Cox and Hawk go on a spending spree.

I went from having absolutely no money to having money. And even now, I think, God, I wasted a lot of money on nonsense. Hawk is obsessed with clothes and jewelry. Matt Cox is all about fast cards and breast implants. I never got a breast implants. What man is it? She got breast implants. You want to hurry and get to a breast implant.

Yeah, look at those. I'm like, yeah, if this is going to make you happy, let me, you know, let me, you'll do it for you. Of course, I mean. And of course, she's giving them back now that you're out of her life. Right. But go ahead. You can paint. Or twist to fit his fantasies.

He does the same with his own appearance. When we left, he got obsessed with the way he looked and how his physique was and stuff like that. I mean, he went, he hardly ever ate. He had a nose job done. Life were done under here. Michael Jackson. Dee! Here's what's funny is both of those pictures are before the surgeries.

What? What? Like someone to do that. Greed is the first thing that you think of. thing that you think of. But there was more than greed. I think there was a big dose of ego involved in this crime for this particular individual. He's talking about when he went to buy the house, of course, right? So I'm going to loan you half the value of the house and I get the whole house if you default. Greed. I'm going to go ahead and work that. Yeah, at like a 13 or 14%

interest rate. That's fine. That's what he's talking about. I'm talking about what you did. Look at that photo. I saw that. Secret Service Special Agent Andrea Peacock is on the tale of Matt Cox and Rebecca Hawke. I have a story about her. Two of the most wanted financial fugitives. But the Secret Service is never sure where they are or what names they're using. It was impossible to predict what identity he would use next.

Cox has as many as 50 aliases. Joseph Marion Carter, Jr., Philip Daniel Morgan, Corbin Blair Thomas, Matthew Bevan Cox, Gerald Scott Kugno, How's one of your names and alias? Richard Paul Grohawke, Jr., James Franklin Pade. Those are reprints. She didn't actually ever get the original ID from you, did she?

Yes, she did. We had all the IDs. Not all of them. Like some stuff like Gary Sullivan and stuff, like once that scam's done, I'd just ditch everything. But I was, all of those were kind of active or I had them on me. Oh, so she did recover them. Yeah. Oh, okay.

But you said you have a story about, you know? Yes. Andrew P. Yes. Okay. So at one point, at some point in time, when they were talking to me, I don't remember if I was in jail or out, you know, they were asking me if I had any, I don't know, I was talking to a detective. I think I was, anyway, I told them I know where Matt Cox is. No, you did not.

I swear to you, I did. I have never heard this. I have never heard this. This is because keep mind that that you were out, you were out and living in what, Tampa? Um, what do you talk about when I drove by? No, no, when you saw the, uh, the, um, article dubious, dubious deals. I was in Hillsborough County Jail. And so he reads this article.

I was in Hillsborough County Jail and he passed a, I had a, I had a fixation with you before then because like in, in just explained doing my crime, like I was the only one that like, like, would put together schemes. So everybody else was like, oh, man, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. Right. And when I read that article on you, I'm like, that's brilliant. Like, this guy is brilliant.

Automatic fixation. And my mind told me it's like, oh, my God, this is somebody who's probably equal or greater than me in figuring out. I swear to you, that's what, yes. The egos at this table. It's unreal. It's unbelievable. So anyway, and I believe I was out.

At some point, a detective called a phone that I had. And it's all a long story. I don't remember what it was situation. But he's like, because he knew my name. At that point, he knew me and I'm going to have a warrant. I really can't remember the scenario because part of me thinks I called them to find out about something. And they're like, oh, you know, we're going to arrest you, blah, blah, blah. So then I said, well, you know, what if I have information about Matt Cox?

Would you be interested? Dead-ass silence. I'll never forget this. And this is only half of the story. Dead sign. What if I have information about Matt Cox? Would you be interested? Nothing.

Then he comes back and goes. Of course we'd be interested. Like, I remember looking at the phone like, of course we'd be interested. Wish I had some. That's what I thought. So I said, well, we need to make a deal. Right? But he, like, I don't think he believed me.

So he said something errant. getting and like okay fuck you too it's kind of what happened but my point behind that is this when at one point when we were arrested I think my Tara got out that woman questioned Tara

okay and asked her about that like Tara goes on and on and she can only remember segments this is when I talked to her she can only remember segments but one of the segments she remembered is she said that woman said that you mentioned that you knew Matt Cox. This is way before we met.

Yeah, yeah. Because we meet in, Zach and I meet in federal prison. And Zach came to me and we were talking. He said, you know, I knew about you before this, right? And I was like, no. He said, I read an article on you. He is a, and I remember reading the article. I remember thinking, I would love to meet this guy,

but the only place I would ever meet this guy. said that in jail. I'm driving on the highway randomly because we were going back and forth to Atlanta and I passed something that says Coleman I told you this. It says Coleman Federal Prison

or Complex. Yeah. I said, I go, that's a federal prison. I said, you know what? That'd be the only place I would meet. I'd be lucky enough to meet my God. I said, but I'd have to go to federal prison for that to happen. That's funny. Yeah, that's funny.

no one would ever believe it's like I find that hard to believe but that actually happened to me I'm serious as heart attack you know what's funny is it's like how do these two hard money lenders

know each other it's just coincidence you know just sometimes it's coincidence it's coincidence but yes she that name

and I and Tara said total bitch mean and direct and like blah blah so well Tara was trying to lie yeah

and so she was very cool to me She was always, the Secret Service in my case was always very professional to me. Oh, she says she was, but it's probably because Tara was, but probably in her mind, everybody was mean because she's like, okay. Yeah, you're lying. You're lying. Yeah, you're lying. But go ahead.

All right. I just thought I'd bring that up, though. Pull into Columbia, South Carolina, where Bridget Brown and her husband are trying to sell their home. This is a flyer that the realtor produced. show our home when we were trying to sell it shows a quintessential suburban neighborhood and a little house on a pond try as they may the home won't sell it was a stressful time because i was traveling weekly to augusta already with my son for his surgical treatments this is uh their son colby is sick and they need to move closer to care in augusta georgia but the old house continues to sit unsold

The Browns decide to try something new. A friend of ours recommended that we offer owner financing. He said that that would make the home competitive and also open it up to people that previously could not have afforded a conventional loan. She's had a little surgery done, lips and... That night it was Gary Sullivan, or the man we thought was Gary Sullivan that came and viewed the home. Matt Cox has a new alias. Gary Sullivan is actually a homeless person Cox met on a trip to Las Vegas. Gary Sullivan was, you know, a $20 male prostitute.

I hopped out and told him I was doing a survey for the Salvation Army, paid 20 bucks. Could he answer 17 questions? He said, no problem. This is a scam Cox does again and again. He would take this form that he created, that he, you know, titled a federal statistical survey, to make it look from you know official form number in the small print it has us government printer office and he'd ask for you know full name of birth you know their mother's maiden name father's name so security had they ever been arrested um any kind of information that could

affect him using that identity he gives the con man everything he needs to create a new identity i ordered his social security card i ordered everything with his identity secured as gary sullivan Cox learns about the Brown's home and moves in for the kill. He was very unassuming, very demure, kind of quiet. The con man cracks jokes at his own expense. He talks about the braces he just had put on his teeth. And he said, when you're as short as I am, you don't have much to go with, so everything has to be perfect.

Nice line. And we knew from what we were told that he had, a bad credit history. So I was concerned that, you know, he may be going into that situation again. Yet I wasn't thinking that this was a criminal mastermind that was really playing us. I just thought this is a young man who's very insecure and trying hard here. Even now I get upset for the fact that these people have worked all their lives. And we come in and just, you know, with the... And they want to believe you. Everybody wants to believe someone. They don't want them to think that, you know, you're going to cheat them out of their,

you know, their life savings or whatever. And that's what we did. It's not actually not what we did. But that's fine. Well, the boy's out of the hospital. Lender referred, referred him to me for a closing. Mary Nell Degenhardt is a real estate attorney in Columbia, South Carolina. A few days after representing Gary Sullivan at another closing, she talks to an abstractor, someone who researches a property's title. She said, your mortgage is recorded in first position, but there's four or five right behind you within two days on the same property. I knew then what he had done, he had refinanced with several different attorneys, and there's

a lag time at the county, so you would have never seen the mortgage until they hit all at once. It's too late. The mortgage checks have cleared, and Matt Cox has taken $1.2 million. on a $200,000 house. Deckenhardt issues a warning to all the banks in town. Immediately, I believe Wachovia was the one that put a fraud alert out through the system.

On March 4, 2005, Gary Sullivan strolled into a Wachovia bank in Columbia, South Carolina, to withdraw money. The bank teller sees that a fraud alert has been issued on this name. Within minutes, deputy sheriffs arrive and asked Gary Sullivan to come downtown. I'm freaking out. So then I go and the investigator shows up and he's arguing with the guy from Wampovia.

Whoa, this isn't the one where they caught you in the bank, is it? There's nothing illegal about taking out. Right. So this is I'm in the bank. They handcuffed me in this conversation, they, like he just said it wrong. He said they bring me down. On town, yeah, okay. No, this is all this happens in the bank.

bank. Okay. I then go downtown, fill out a police report, and they let me go. Gotcha. Okay. Up next, can Matt Cox talk his way out this time? What? Naturally. For more information and web exclusives on the crimes of Matt Cox, go to AmericanGree.com. That's crazy. I don't remember seeing this. I have to check that out. Do what else I did.

The crimes of Matt Cox. it's probably listed under that chronological yeah I mean I can see it's funny watching and I can see how they condense stuff and remove stuff that copse the financial fugitive stopped at a bank in Columbia

South Carolina he was at the teller and the cops came in and handcuffed him and said come with me and he was like oh crap I'm freaking out Cox goes downtown to the sheriff's department they let him drive in his car And that's when he called me.

He goes, this is bad. He's like, they're here. They picked me up. At this point, they don't know he's Matthew Cox. They think he's Gary Sullivan, the homeless person. Cox steals the identity of a street person and takes out $1.2 million worth of loans on a house worth about $200,000.

At the bank, Cox is trying to withdraw some of his fraudulent proceeds. So they took him into a room, and he talked his way out of it. He told the guy, I have a second and a third on my home. That's illegal. I convince him that there's nothing illegal about taking out multiple loans on the same house. When the Richland County Sheriff's Department runs a criminal history for Gary Sullivan, they see no warrants for his arrest. The local police at this point usually wouldn't make an immediate arrest unless someone was wanted.

And, of course, they ran the identity that Cox was using, but that person was not wanted. Gary Sullivan was not wanted. The police in Columbia had them dead to rights, but they didn't have the paperwork, and they weren't certain who they were dealing with, and he talked his way out of the situation and was gone. In Columbia, Bridget Brown gets a call from the Secret Service. She and her husband go back to their home.

Gary Sullivan, of course, is long gone. On the kitchen countertop was a fax machine. On it was just tons of spilling out of mortgage applications for home equity loans. Really? These were just some examples of the infamous loan applications that we found in our house where he had forged our names and said that he had paid us off. Did you deal with her or both her and her husband? I actually only met her and her husband at the club.

closing. I never dealt with them. I dealt with there were real estate investors or real estate attorneys and Jesus. There were realtors involved. Oh. She's making it seem like you made a joke about your height. Yeah, I did, but that was at the closing. Oh. We used to fight all the time. We used to scream and yell at each other all time. It was like hell being with her. I mean, after we left, she blamed everything on me. What have I done? Why have I left? Why did I do this? Oh my gosh. What have I left my son. I'm like, go back! Rebecca hasn't seen her son in more than a year.

Her mother isn't sure if she's dead or alive. And then there's the pressure from the Secret Service. Cox Googles himself constantly. He knows the Secret Service is working with the media to get their faces in front of as many people as possible. Rebecca Hawk can't stand the heat. We were on TV. U.S. Secret Service was doing a press conference about us.

They had done our pictures, a warrant pictures. And I just freaked out. I'm like, no, we've got to leave. We have to leave. This is, you know, we're too close. They're going to find us. We've got to go. She was definitely going to get us caught.

I mean, that's where I was thinking. She was having a meltdown. I mean, she really was melting down. She was coming apart. One morning in March of 2005, Rebecca takes a shower. And Matt Cox sees an opportunity to steal a, away. That's not true. He takes all the cash, but leaves behind all his cell phones. Any way that I could got a hold of him, he left. And I was just like, what? That's not true at all. Of course.

That's not true at all. Yeah, she knew, you know, I, I did leave. I did leave. Um, but I only took like a hundred grand and she ended up with like 500,000. And, but didn't you put her in a separate apartment first? No, no, this was different. This was when we were, we were in Houston, Texas. No, no. Yes, that had happened, but that was in Charlotte. By this point, what she's talking about happened here, we had moved. We had moved to Houston, Texas, and we had about 600,000. And I left her with like 500,000. Not that I left her with it. We argued about it. And she was basically saying, look, you're going to go on and make a bunch of money. I have to live off this money. And so I was like, fuck it. Like, just to get away from her, give me 100 grand. You know, she didn't say give me. She said 100 grand. I said, I'll take it. So she gave me 100 grand. And then I just left. But when I, when I was walking out the door, I, because I'd left before. And she always called me on my cell phone within 20 minutes of begging and crying and pleading. And so I just hit my cell phone. I sat it on the counter. I thought when she calls, it's going to ring there and she's going to know it's over. And I've got no way for her to call me. So I'm not going to be

suckered into believing her lies and come back. She's done. And sure enough, I got, I got do is the U-Haul van that I'd use to transport all of my furniture from Charlotte, North Carolina all the way to Houston, Texas. So I got in, and by the way, it's empty now, because we've already emptied it into, into a storage unit. So I'm driving this empty truck all the way back to North Carolina. To North Carolina to get my car. It's ridiculous. Because, first of all, you know, I didn't want to leave the, I could have just left the vehicle, right? Like, my problem is if I leave the vehicle, eventually the Secret Service or the FBI is going to figure out, okay, well, there's a vehicle in Houston, Texas, and they could track me back there.

Now, granted, they're just going to find her. You know, I could have just got on a plane and flown wherever I wanted. But I figured drive back, get your car, take your car, go somewhere else, start over, drive the car for a couple of days, get another vehicle, get a new ID, get a new identity, get a new car, and then take your car and bring it back to Charlotte and leave it in Charlotte, which is exactly what I did. Smart. But at this point, I'm just, I just,

just I take off, but I don't leave her with nothing. First of all, when they caught her, they caught her with like 40 grand in the bank. She'd been living had been living for over a year, had just gotten a job, and it paid in full for, for like, whatever that school is, cosmetology school, to be a hit, to cut hair. So, you know, so the idea that I left you with nothing and you were able to pay $2,500 a month for your apartment plus your, for a year? Yeah, for a year. You got a car.

You bought a, she bought a motorcycle. She got $40,000 thousand dollars in the bank. Come on, none of that's true. You didn't even have a job for almost a year. And when she did, they caught her, when they caught her, she was a waitress. She'd been a waitress for like two weeks. So it's, you know, not true. But whatever.

I've expected, okay, he's going to come back. He's just mad. He's going to come back. And, well, he never came back. Weeks turn into months. And Rebecca tries to go straight. She makes up a new name. Rebecca Sue Higg.

Does she do that on her owner? You helped her with that. She had that ID before I even, we got her that before I even got there. Based on a wanted poster that this person believed that she was using the name Rebecca Hickey. Rebecca Hawke is arrested in Houston while attending class at a cosmetology school. There were about five U.S. Marshals that came in to class and I was just like, oh man. And I, you know, I thought they're here for me. The Secret Service hopes Rebecca can answer their most pressing questions.

question. Where is Matt Cox? I wonder who turned her in. She hasn't seen him or talked to him in a year. So my understanding on who turned her in was that she had been communicating with her mother. This is what the Secret Service said. They said she'd been talking to her mother. Her mother's like, I'm worried. I'm scared. What are you going to do? Blah, blah, blah. And she's like, Matt's gone. And she's like, I can't come home. I've committed a ton of fraud. I'm going to go to fucking prison. She's like, I've got money. Everything's fine. And she said, look, I've got an ID. I've got money i'm good so her mom's like you know what at least tell me where you are and she tells her i'm well i don't worry i'm are you safe yeah she's i live downtown i live in a nice i live in houston it's

it's fun or in houston texas it's fine so then a month or two months six months later whatever months later she ends up telling her mother she's like oh yeah i'm starting cosmetology school tomorrow so her mother knows she's in houston going to a cosmetology school so how hard it is it to go to the three cosmetology schools that are in Houston, Texas, and show them her photo. And somebody's going to be like, yeah, I know who that is. She's registered here. So they figured out. Now, according to Becky, what she told me was that she was a waitress and that a U.S.

Marshall came into the restaurant and recognized her. And then went and then they got her fingerprints. and then they checked and then they said it was her and then they came and arrested her. But that doesn't make sense. No. You know, like, first of all,

it's, you know, it doesn't make sense that they would then wait and go rest you at the cosmetology school. Right. Why? They know where you work. You know,

they know where, like, the whole thing, that he's going to recognize you, that, that, and then she would have said, oh, the U.S.

marshals, that's a great story. Like somebody, you know, she happened to be working as a waitress, you know, whatever. And a U.S.

Marshall happened to walk in and recognized her arrested her like that's a much easier story right so i think that what the secret service told me is different than what she believes happened cox is still on the run now he's in nashville with a new girl and a new real estate company maybe it's karma catching up with him but the con man is about to become a victim when american greed returns you can't get away with that forever prosecutor in charge of the case. There was absolutely no regard for the over 100 victims

that he left behind. His girlfriend slash accomplices, he knew they had gone to jail. He'd just moved on with more and more fraud. In Nashville, Cox forms yet another fraudulent shell company, steals the identity of another homeless person, and starts dating yet another pretty young woman. A single mom. These fuckers, the pattern.

And then Greece. Paid for, of course, with stolen money. Made possible by Cox's stash of fake IDs. You and I can't even get on a plane without somebody looking at us anymore. Matt Cox, you know, at the top of the most wanted list, was able to create an ID that passed mustard for him to get out of the country and back in. That's not true.

Maybe Cox has tempted fate once too often. Maybe it's... So that's not true. The fake IDs that I actually made, I only used for closings, or maybe to open a bank account. Like, I was able to get passports, but I would always, when I would get passports,

I would go into the Department of Motor Vehicles and get a driver's license issued. So I have a real driver's license. Then I would go fill out a police... I would then go fill out a passport application, and then I would apply for a passport. So if I'm going out of the country, I'm using a real passport. If I'm getting pulled over and the cop gives me a ticket, I'm using a real driver's license.

You know, the fake IDs that I actually made, I never used it. I would have shown them to a cop. I think they would have figured it out right away. Yeah, especially with what's the name, Allison, having trouble with the bank the first time with it. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, these would have been me, but it, I mean, which, well, that was her too. but yeah I just don't so that's not quite accurate but that's fine and then of course the hundreds of victims

McKenzie's such a lion piece of god my US attorney what she's just a lion piece of garbage like she like I have four victims if you add up what I owe to each one of those victims it's 30 grand it's 30 grand so you know everything else is banks everything else but not that those people deserve to be victims I'm just saying that over a hundred victims

she's including the banks so but well when you I'm just going to say when you don't have a lot of victims then they get very broad in their their definition victims you know because they get more specifics if it's you know over 130 people were victim you know what I'm saying

they get specifics when they have the numbers when they don't have the numbers they get very you know abstract over a hundred victims you know how many people were injured or took losses and look do is it over 100 victims like I don't think it is I think it's over 50 victims, but victim banks. But, you know, the thing is, she then says, you know, she goes and says, you know, people and this and, you know, what are you talking about?

You never once said banks. You shouldn't, why didn't you just say over 50 victim, either four people and over 50 victims, 50 banks? Yeah. That's what you could have said. But you don't, you know, they have to make you look as horrible. Not that I'm not a horrible human being, but whatever. That's fine. But let's be accurate about it.

Please. For once. All right. I'm catching up with him. But one night. He's back in Nashville relaxing at home with his girlfriend when two armed intruders break through his front door. Officer Cassandra del Bosco responds, and Cox shows her a video taken from his security camera. You could actually see one lift his foot up and kick in the door, and one of them's holding him at gunpoint,

and then you see him getting all their property, and you see Cox, he's kind of mad. He's not really scared. He's mad. The thieves get away with the girlfriend's car, jewelry, and $6,000 in cash. Cox files a police report under his alias. Joseph Carter, and we did run his DL. It was a valid Tennessee driver's license with his picture on it. We had no reason to believe it wasn't him.

Around the same time, the Secret Service gets a tip from a woman in Nashville. She's seen the most wanted poster and thinks Cox is living in her neighborhood. The tipster describes Cox to a team. Secret Service then gets in position to make the big arrest, and he's no longer there. Gone once again. This time, we were within two days of him. I can't tell you what a tremendous letdown that was. The day after, Officer Delper.

So here's the explanation for that is that my house had been, we'd had a home evasion. So we went and stayed in a hotel. So they're watching the house and it's empty. They think we missed them. We missed them. But you didn't miss me. I'm just staying in a hotel. Oh.

But the tip is still from. The tip is from Trina. Right. But Trina didn't live in our neighborhood. Okay. Well, I mean, I understand it. They, whatever. Yeah.

But the tip is still from her. a separate tip and then they left and then they got another tip is what I'm trying to mention is this is this is Trina calling and and at that point I don't think they went to the wrong house I think they probably no no they went to the right house the secret service is watching the right house I'm just not staying there we just had a home invasion so we're like we're getting out of this neighborhood we're going to go live in a nice neighborhood now I felt comfortable in the neighborhood the brand new school in in front of us I owned like 20 house or so the home invasion happened after you told her who you were, after she found out who you were?

Becky? I mean, Amanda? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So she already knew. Amanda knew like within about two, three months into the relationship. She knew who I was. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. That clues it up. All right. Well, she knew I was on the run. Maybe another couple months she knew. She found out that I was Matt Cox. She just knew I was on the run. She didn't know my name. But a couple months go by, she finds out she realizes Matt Cox. But this, yeah, we'd had a home invasion. We moved out of the house and go live in a hotel for a few days. And so almost immediately the Secret Service was watching the house, but we don't live there anymore. Like it's there. Our stuff's there, but it's abandoned. They'll watch it 24 hours a day for like two, three days. And they're like,

the fuck. Like he's the guy didn't live here. He must have been tipped off and left the, left the, left the city or the country or whatever again. But in actual reality, that's not true. Moscow gets a page. And I looked down on my computer and I noticed that the Secret Service had just sent out an email, please stay out of the area, we're looking for a fugitive. And I looked at the address and I thought, hold up a second. We just had a home invasion there two days ago. And I talked to this supposed fugitive that they're looking for. Working with the Secret Service, the Nashville police create a ruse.

They ask Cox to meet them for a follow-up report about the home invasion. Cox is so confident in his ability to fool everyone that he falls right into the track. The Secret Service is waiting. Hey, Matthew, how you doing? Because you are Matthew Cox, aren't you? And I went, yeah, Matthew Cox. And I mean, I remember my knees went weak. Just because I hadn't heard my name and aloud in so long.

After three years on the run, Matt Cox has finally stopped. is finally stopped. He's taken a total of $12 million from banks and private lenders, and he's left behind more than 100 victims. Once in custody, he begins to talk freely to the Secret Service. He was very forthcoming in what he had done, but he was trying to sell to us, just like he had tried to sell to others,

that there really are no victims. And that's what he wanted us to believe that the, you know, the title insurance companies, that's what they're there for, you know, insurance companies pay policy, so really no one has hurt. Bridget Brown and her husband were conned by Cox at a time when they were caring for a sick child who was constantly in and out of the hospital. I did not know these people had a sick child. I met them at the closing. I went to the house, looked at the house very briefly, put a contract in on it, got them to owner finance the house,

bought the house but at the closing is the only time I met them like I mean so nobody at the closing said oh we have a sick child by the way I don't know that I just know we're signing the paperwork

we're chit-chatting stop stop I mean don't I mean I cause I caused the woman to lose a pregnancy so I don't understand why you could never I don't know why you couldn't have affected a six

What did you do you ran up some you used her credit card or something that she had to make, use some woman's credit card. They bring her into a sentencing and she says the stress of the $110 that he put on her credit card called her might have cost her to lose her. At the time this was going on, I had a miscarriage. Oh, okay. So the stress of you getting $110 charge on your credit card calls you to have a miscarriage.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's, come on. Of course, we're not saying it's directly related. we would charge him, you know, for the loss of the baby. I'm like, oh, that's so nice. Oh, thank God. You're not going to charge me with a manslaughter?

Yeah, that's so nice to them. It's like, it's horrible. When are they going to be so generous? Go ahead. Why's that kid's foot up in the air? I don't know. Look, how horrible. Like, they got a, they, they show the sick kid and the whole thing.

It's just fucking horrific. Like, I'm a horrible person. And I feel bad. A young family going through some stressful times, and he was aware of that. You know, we mentioned that getting to the closing was difficult. for us because we had to find appropriate medical care for our son. I think it was a pretty poor argument to say that this was a victimless crime. On April 10, 2007, Matthew Bevan Cox pleads guilty to bank fraud, mortgage fraud, and identity theft.

He is later sentenced to 26 years in federal prison. This fellow got what he deserved. He got a very stiff sentence in federal prison. and because there's no parole in the federal system anymore, he is going to spend a couple of decades plus in federal custody. You don't want to call him and let me know you're out? I have a feeling he knows I'm out by now. Rebecca Hawke is sentenced to six years in prison,

but she will be eligible for release in 2009. Matt Cox's story has one more mystery. $5 million of his loot is still missing. I know where it's at. Where's the money? I would love to know the answer to that question. I mean, I think the possibilities are limitless as to where he could have put the money. Cox's former girlfriends believe he may have an offshore account.

No wonder, every time this aired, they go, where's the money, Matt? Yeah. I know you still got some money out there where the money is. How that money yet. He's $2,029. What? I'm supposed to be in prison right now. For 30 years?

That wouldn't leave you out in 2020. 30 years? No, I was 26. It was 26 years. My outdate was 2030. I mean, just like he said. That's not 26 years. No, well, there's good time.

If you looked on the, when this was aired, you know, they, whatever. probably looked on the website it takes account for good time look if i was if i was sentenced to 26 years it was 26 years and four months in 2007 in 2006 oh yeah it would it would have been if you add it all up it's 2035 but you have to take off good time then it's 20 30 but keep in mind this guy they also said it's so many things are just inaccurate which is ridiculous it's silly but um one of the things is you know five million is missing. I don't know where they get 5 million from because my restitution is 6

million, not 5. And then the U.S. or the Secret Service agent, Andrew Peacock, saying, well, I would love to know where that money is. Like, you know there's no money. Like, what are you doing? You know what I'm saying? It's just silliness. Like the whole thing, his his co-defendants think that he's got offshore bank

accounts. Are you fucking out of your mind? Like, listen, don't I wish? But whatever. it's fine it's fine so um my overall assessment is as as i said this is a little more embellished it's it it does not the other one made you look evil this made you look the the kid thing they this is remember i told you the first date line they talked about the kid then when they re-interviewed me they cut that part out because they had to throw my interview in there so they removed that part about that part and then this american greed they threw the the um the brown's dr brown

and his wife they threw that their child uh had apparently had some kind of illness or something and had been in the hospital uh but once again like i said i didn't know that not to be honest with you i don't think that would change i don't think that would have changed anything i still would have closed on the and i think that kid thing landed flat i don't think and i don't know if that's just me talking But I would say, I would invite people to leave a comment. I just think by her having a kid in the hospital at the closing, I don't think that kind of makes me like, oh, you, you evil dog, you know what I'm saying? I think it's something that they really, that's not a story they could flourish to make people think that that was, that you had any involvement in that at all.

Like any part of your plan included that kid, you know what I'm saying? No, well, you know what's another thing is like, we had done a bunch of, we had done other frauds, like, but Becky was involved in those. They don't talk about those. You know, she was directly. And so the way it feels for me with the Becky situation is like, she's like, I'm just hanging out with this guy who's committing fraud. I didn't commit fraud. Like, yes, I, I'm using a different ID.

I have a different identity, but I'm not committing bank fraud. But the truth is, you are committing. She's committing bank fraud. She's cashing checks. She took mortgages out in her name. Correct. Sign them, opened accounts, deposited the money, pulled the money out. So when you really.

look at it like there's tons of and that's what i mean by it it creates it's the portrait of you from that is of the mastermind of of being like absolutely in in control it leaves out a it leaves out a lot of stuff from like alice and arnold and even from amanda is that the last girl from tennessee it her even knowing who you really were you know what i'm saying i mean they brought her in for questioning they don't so they leave out all of relevant things that take away from your accomplishments in it. It's hard to explain. I feel like I'm pulling for the abstract here.

But the other one really made you look like evil. Right. And this one doesn't make you look evil. It just makes it feel like this one makes me look pretty bad too. Only because of the kid. The reason the kid thing bothers me. I promise you that lands flat. I promise you no one, no one goes, my God.

See, because I. That woman had a sick kid. I didn't know that, but whatever. Yeah, it's, yeah, anyway, and you know what's so funny is like, it's people that are criminally minded when they see this. They're all, they always talk about the American Greek, bro, I remember you on American Greek. That was one of my favorite episodes. I always, I was, I'm always like, really, I always felt like the, the sick kid thing really fucks, you know, it really makes me look bad. Not that I don't deserve to look bad, but it's like, to me, it's like, look, what I did was bad enough.

you don't have to make it worse. Like, you know, as a supposedly, not that American greed is journalism, but or dateline, you know, they're, they're, you know, they're tabloids. But, but what I'm saying is, look, you know, you're a tabloid, your national tabloid show. It's like, so, you know, you go for sensationalism. But what I'm saying is like, you could just be accurate. Like, why not just give an accurate portrait? of what happened.

Because it doesn't suit their bottom line. I mean, let's face it, if you just go with the facts, the facts are sensational enough, but they have to try and twist it and make it look as menacing and evil as possible. Yes. But to me, it's like, okay, well, you're committing crimes. It's already evil, right? Do you have to also say, you know, a dating a single mother? You never mentioned Jana Pope.

She didn't have any kids. you never mentioned any of these other women that I dated that that that I dated you they just don't mention them right well because as I admit that I think they're highlighting you so I'm I'm I've been going through my mind about like people's opinion of American greed people who aren't criminals like I can like one that comes to mind is my brother because one time my brother called me up and said hey there's a show American greed is talking about some of the things that you and blah blah but check it out you know what I'm saying but he's a criminal even yeah but I'm thinking of people who I knew they weren't criminal.

When they watch American greed, they only see what the criminal did. They never, ever mentioned any of the victims or, I'm telling you, that show sensationalizes the criminal and the crime. It does not, it does not put any emphasis on victims or the people around. Whereas if, to notice the difference between the both, I promise you the other one. Like the other one, I'm kind of like, damn. like geez dude i mean i had an opinion and and i'm on your side and i've got to like it really hurts like when it was over i'm like damn i don't think i can talk to you anymore

yeah that's what i was thinking and that's why you weren't that's why i asked you about when they caught you and that i'm like that's not even you listen my victims still have their children look what you did you bastard that is so true so that's true he turns in the hospital so hopefully he's out now and living a flourishing life but uh boy you don't bother me look all of them like like honestly this man got what he deserved 26 years like bro like that's kind of callous like you think i deserve 26 years you know like like people that say that they you know that's what he doesn't come on bro like what do you think a rapist deserves what do you think a murderer deserves what do you think someone who

manslaughter like like broke like and not just that you you got paid back because well and they leave all that out they leave all that out well because you know that guy showed up at my sentencing and had been paid back which one the the guy the white haired guy uh I don't know what the hard money lender no no it was yeah the white haired guy he'd been paid back it's like you didn't lose any money he's one of the four people he lost like 15 it cost him like $1,500 to a law that he paid a lawyer. So you paid $1,500 to a lawyer. And by the way, when they asked him, did you lose any money? He said, no. The U.S. attorney is like, you didn't lose, she's like covers the mic. She's like, you didn't lose anything. I thought you lost,

you know, $100,000. He's like, no, he said, they paid me back. The title company paid me back. And she's like, you didn't lose anything. Did you have to hire, did you ever hire an attorney? And he goes, oh, you know, I did hire an attorney. She's like, how much was that? And he was like, $1,500. It was about $1,500. And she goes, you know, Mr. So-and-so lost $1,500 to have to pay for an attorney. She's like, and you couldn't, and he was like, oh, no, no, I couldn't. I couldn't. It was, it was so I felt like going like, what are you doing? The guy's lending out. I'm reaching. I'm reaching. I'm reaching. I'm reaching here. I mean, get it. And you know, what's funny is that people in the comments always, they're like, oh, you're not sorry. You're not taking responsibility.

You're not sorry. I am. I'm more than willing to take responsibility for what I did. If you go into a candy store and you steal the Snickers, you know, then okay, fine, but don't arrest me and tell me that you stole all the money in the cash register and all the, and 250 Snickers and you're like, hey, I'm willing to plead guilty to the Snickers. Right. But not all the Snickers and not the money in the cash register. You're not taking responsibility. No, I am for what I did. That's it. You know, that, and that's always seems to be the case with some asshole in the fucking comment section.

So please leave a comment. Oh, sorry, but I. Please leave a comment, Matt, you're an asshole. You bastard. That's what I just want to hear. You bastard. Cox, you bastard. Are we good?

That we good. I think so. It went long. I know that went long as hell. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the video. Do me a favor. Leave me a comment. You asshole.

You assholes. So leave me a comment. share the video, hit the subscribe button, even though I probably lost some subscribers. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified videos like this. Dateline and American Greed. The full episodes will be on

Patreon. I'm checking those out. All right, so, all right, so I appreciate it. See ya. You asshole. We had to talk about fallout. The show? The TV show Fallout. Have you watched that? Oh yeah. That's great. But I did nothing but fucking Fallout shit. And then I watched one

video which may have made a bigger mistake that was like oh my god now it's nothing but fallout fall out fall yeah but i've watched it and i guess i never talk about it well we have conversation like jess and i hope she sent me a photo of a guy with a backpack with the backpack the big fan like they put they do parasilling with the fans on the back where they get so they can fly all around sent me that next thing i know tictox are showing up with it like i didn't i'm just oh wow that's yeah that's photo it was a photo so it looked at the photo and saw what it was and started saying, this guy might be interested in this. Yeah, it's terrifying.

It's, what is it, minority report? Yeah. Like a mother. And in minority report, it was creepy. Like, he's walking up the street and they're like, Mr. John, Mr. Jones. Well, that was reading his eyelid, his eyes. It was like, are you coming back for a new pair of boxer briefs? How did you like those such?

He's walking through the gaps. How'd you like those two fitted teas? That is. And that's what we're moving to. Yeah. Big time. Yeah, assuming if there's ever malls again. Really?

Your fan. Your fan is, I watched all that fall out. Oh, yeah. We watched the whole thing. The, Jess and I watched it. What is it? The robot, the brotherhood. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, that's the freaking. Like, at first I'm like, eh. Then I'm like, this is actually pretty good. Yeah. Oh, no, like the first two, I'm like, this is so fucking corny. But then as you start watching, it's like, I. Well, yeah, it turns, it completely turns it on his head because now the vault people are inherently evil

you don't know what I'm saying you know when in fact well okay but they've been lying well you haven't watched any of the lore the what

they call it lore like the backstories all these different L-O-R-E L-O-R-E lore like Is that a show or there is a

The term lore is kind of like the history of Oh Star Wars lore is going to be like all the comic book

all the things Oh okay so so there's a bunch of books on it and everything so people make tons of videos like if you want to know about how the uh the brotherhood of steel was how it became to be right because it was it was fault it was garbage because the head guy's like you and me buddy you know what i'm saying you stood up to the right but i'm saying if you want to know how that just became created like after the war like the whole history of it there's a

whole history of all the guys that started it how it got started how it was overthrown once how then they came back, how the battles they've had, what they do, how there was a branch of it that broke away and they called themselves the, I forget what they called themselves, whatever, the, not the forgotten, but the exiles or something like that. They started their own branch and then, like, he's got a whole thing. You want to know how the war started? You want about all the wars that led up to the war? You want to know about the Chinese, the Russians, or the Soviets? Well, I thought they arranged that. I thought in the, when the little, no, no, not in the lore.

I don't know what's going to ultimately happen. They're just talking about it right now, right? Like, you don't... Well, in the series, his wife, she just discusses it. Well, she goes, we should cause it. That's what she says. Yeah, but that was a discussion. They just discuss it.

In reality, well, if they stick with the main thing, in reality, the Chinese attack us and start not and blow up a bunch of stuff. That's how it happened. But yes, that was part of the plan was like, look, if this, if we get to a point where this isn't we can tell it's not happening and not going to happen we'll just drop some of the bombs ourselves that's exactly what she said right and and so yeah she but keep in mind too she wouldn't if she was in charge or something like that or knew it she's going to make sure we're there in a bunker when it happens the first bomb that comes out her daughter is with her husband right on a on a

weekend like she's not and he's playing a cowboy at a birthday party right right yeah because he was like an actor or something he's she's got him whatever blackballed uh um for being a communist or something. Oh, yeah, because he went, uh, start spying on her. Yep. That's how it's going to end up. She,

she basically finds out, and so she kind of, you know, gets him put on a blacklist. So now all he's doing is able to go in, to children's parties. And yes. Remember the two guys make the snide comment about them?

Yes. Oh, man. You got to read, I mean, listen, it's, I find it super, listen, so the Chinese and elastic effort in,

I want to say, 2007, invade Alaska to get a whole, of all the petroleum. And then so, of course, we fight them, but we're losing the battle against them until they come up with the suits. Right. And the suits end up, well, they hold the line for a little bit.

Then eventually they end up taking back Alaska. And then they invade China. And they take a huge portion of China, they don't really get into too much. And the guys will explain, like, we don't really know too much about that. All we know is they went up to this point and held it. At some point, obviously, they fell back. you know of course once the Chinese nuke us you know then of course we don't know never really know what happens to China right so what the this consensus is is that the other countries in the world

have it at least as bad as the United States or at least as bad as the United States either as bad or at least as bad because you don't hear from them anymore we're basically left it ourselves and society in several spots have been rebuilt and then it's just collapsed again like they can't seem to get their shit together again. So you basically have like these feudal, you know, wars between, area wars between each other. And by the way, the vaults. Which explains why the, um,

they bombed that city that had, that's what I just thought of myself. Yeah, rebuilt that whole, this city. Right. And then they bombed it. They burned it down because it's like, no, you're not going to start a society. Yeah, I don't know what.

I'm not sure exactly. Well, that's because that's when the knighthood found the black kid. Yeah. They had just destroyed his whole city. So he's a pivotal part in the series. Oh, yeah, he becomes. Yeah, he starts to leave the thing. But no, what I was going to tell you is, you know, there's 122 volts.

They're all over the United States. That's right. They did say that. And there's only, this is a weird part. There's only about, I could have the number wrong, But I want to say like 17 that they call them control vaults, which is legitimately, it's a vault that's there to maintain the people so they can someday come up and rebuild society. That's legit. All the other ones are being used in different types of experiments on the people in the vault.

So that part doesn't make sense to me at all. That's just stupid. It's like, I don't know what the hell that. The one where they were having that weird ceremony and the guy with the one eye. That was a control vault. I'm not a control vault. That's an experiment vault where they're obviously. It's like, and we, death by being released and out in the outside world.

Yeah. She's like, what? Yeah, that's, that was like, I didn't think I would like that. And I ended up going like, that was very interesting. So the movie. I wonder if there's going to be another one, if they're going to continue it. Oh, yeah. No, they got a whole, there's going to be another series.

I mean, they're going to be another season. Yeah. Wow. It's going to be several more seasons. So, you know, this is. crooked, right? Is it crooked? Maybe it's just me.

Never mind. You're tilted, but go ahead. So, did you ever see Silo? Is that a movie? No, it's a series. And I want to say Apple. I could be wrong. Maybe it's Amazon.

But it's just like the vault, but it's a silo. It's based on the book, Wool. There was a book, Wool, that was self-published. And it's taken them literally over 10 years to get it turned into a series

and now it's a series. I watched it, we were first season of that and it's extremely serious. Like it's not like silly kind of like. Oh yeah, this one was silly. Yeah,

it's got some silliness to it. No, no, this is legitimately like this is, there are these massive silos and there's whatever 60 levels and you know, you're living within the silo

and you're, and so they banish you to the outside world periodically if somebody does something. Like you can get a few, you know, a little bit of, here and there issues or you're going to have some problems and they maybe you go to jail for a week or a month but if you become such an issue then they just throw you out and the biggest problem

is is that if you if you actually say you want to go outside then they immediately banish you to go outside and of course you die you know it's on the outside the outside's fucked up and and then people watch you so they'll gather to watch this person go outside in a suit they give you a suit and like a fucking sandwich and you know whatever like you're like here good for you you got a suit that you can breathe oxygen and truth is you get out there and they boom they die they because they just don't last long they die so you don't really know what's happening but some people just don't believe it they do not believe that there is a um that radiation out that there's anything wrong with outside because there was a revolt at one point they lost a chunk of

history they've been down there for hundreds of years but it's a great it's a great it was it was based on a book called wool which was huge bestseller and sold and then you never heard about it again and then just a year or so ago they did the series series is fucking amazing all right i might check that one out nick i just finished on fallout i usually grab a series at a time just gobble the whole thing out right like three days later it's like all right i'm done it's like did you just watch nine Listen, I've been addicted to that. I started off, what's weird is I started off, the series that got me started

was The Flash. I didn't watch The Flash. Oh, my God. And I'm like, like, come on, man. How good. And I watched one season, and it was actually good. I think there's like 13. Right.

13 seasons? Yes. Holy shit. Have you ever watched The Flash? Yeah, I mean, no. Or episodes. You mean seasons or episodes? Seasons.

Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Bro, and I'm going to tell you honestly about season five, I'm like, this is fucking good. Like, from the, and there's some silly parts, but the drama and the, like the, it's from beginning to end, it's one issue that you're dealing with. And there's a couple of episodes where they drag it out and they'll just throw some irrelevant shit. Right. But it's all building up to a crescendo, like a battle royale. I have to admit most of the time the Flash's powers are so melodramatic that most of the time that the Battle Royale is, I'm like, like, you can't, you could have did that episode three, you know what I'm saying?

Um, yeah. Unreal, unreal, but it was, it was pretty good. That's what first got me going, you know, and then I did, um, Blacklist and I like, I, Blacklist is great. Oh, my God. I fell in love with Raymond Relating. I'm like, listen, do you know, I love this dude. Do you know how, the only reason I. even started watching it is because when I did

oh he's got your personality when I did Danny's podcast guys were leaving Raymond Redington yeah they were comments in the comment section bro this guy is Raymond Reddington and I'd seen it so many times I was like the fuck is this who is Raymond Reagan and then I text would be like who is that somebody's like bro

you've got to check out the blacklist it's you this guy's you he's like a super criminal I don't know who you guys think I am like I committed some fraud and then I'm watching it. I'm like, this guy is a, he's fucking having people murdered. Like, what do you? Well, he murders them themselves. But then the analytical story, he goes, you know, ice cream. Like, I can tell you eight stories that he told it. I'm kind of like, damn. Yeah, he's my favorite one is the one where he was talking about his dad when he worked

this summer job. And his dad said, did you give you a word you would stay? This is before he killed somebody. Right. He goes, yeah. So then I stayed there the whole summer. And he goes, and the guy gave him like $3,500, right? And he goes, why did you give me this money? He goes, you're the only person that ever stayed. You know what I'm saying? Because that's how bad the job was, because he goes, I wanted to quit every day. Wow. Yeah. I remember that story. I mean, I love that series. It's still going on. It's actually just did the last season. No, they canceled it a long time ago. No. They canceled it. Didn't they? Look at it. No, they just did the last season.

The black list. They just did the last season. They just posted the last season. I think maybe they took a break. They may have taken a break. Because it had a couple of spinoffs. Oh, you fuck. I didn't know any of that.

Yeah, they just did the last season. Look. Last, hold on. Last season. The last season concluded on July 13th, 2020, 23. Yeah. July 30, 2023? Sheesh.

That's what I'm saying. They must have just brought it back and did the last season. It kind of got out there. When he started chasing, she started chasing their mom, it kind of lost me a little bit. Because then I'm like, what the hell is going on? Right. Because they did. I remember they were doing it still in the pandemic because they had a pandemic, like a few episodes where they had a pandemic thing where they couldn't get together.

Right. Just so silly. Yeah. It lost me. Like when she started chasing her mom and then the Russian spot, I couldn't make sense. I'm like, what? Who? Gone are the days The first five seasons.

It's hard to maintain. It's hard to maintain a story like that long. Oh, it was hitting the toilet rim when he was locked up for that whole season and he was in court. And the whole time I'm relating to it like, I don't know what that is. You know what I'm saying?

I'm like, I feel like I'm in jail fighting for this.