Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - America's Worst Counterfeiter | Crime Stories Gone Wrong

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

America's Worst Counterfeiter | Crime Stories Gone Wrong

These counterfeit 20s were the Secret Service called him very low quality, and he gets pulled over by Bethany the Oklahoma Police. So this dumbass bonded himself out with counterfeit money. He just bonded out on a minor charge and got himself a major charge. The next day, the Secret Service leaves a card on, on at his house. And it says, you need to contact me immediately and bring your friend Kyle. I guess they knew what I was with them. We all got together and we didn't know what to do. And I got the idea for, I don't know why, but I said, let's go down to six flags. They'll never know what counterfeit money is. You give them a $20 for a $2 item.

You get $18 back. Right. We started noticing security following us around. We got lined for a roller coaster called the Shockwave. I got this new tattoo I'm proud of, you know, the Shocker. I don't know what the shocker is. Where's Jake now? Tate's doing good.

Jaking it up. Catching a case. He had a federal state local task force for him for drugs. Okay. So what happened? What did he end up getting? Got murder in the second degree. He got 25 years.

You started this off saying he was doing fine. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Kyle. And we are going to be talking about. his true crime story and all right check out the video i can't believe i'm here i've seen you on tv seen you on the commercials what am i doing here how did i get here man i mean you drove your motorcycle across how many states four or five yeah it was a nice ride you don't look so bad you came in you said i have raccoon eyes or something you you look all right now thank you matt um When you first took your glasses off, I was like, oh, wow.

When I got to the hotel last night, I was like, there's no freaking way I can do this, man. So here I am. It's fine. So, okay. Well, so, I mean, we talked on the phone a few times, you know, we just talked before here. So what, I mean, let's let's start at the, because your story really, it's, it's, it's not like you, it's not like a drug story. Like, it spans all the, all these different things have happened that you've been on the, peripheral of you know what I mean right and then sometimes in the middle of but but have managed to

not be gotten tied up in them but um so let's start at the you know at the kind of the I was going to say the crux of the problem but at the beginning which is you know so you know like where were you born and I and you know what does your dad do and what is your uncle do okay okay life story here yeah yeah I was born under a bad moon at Zanesville Ohio 19 69 what's up uh two two parent home very stable one older brother very conservative very middle class very protestant um well provided for no my mom is from the pan hill of texas a small town girl very the nicest the gentlest easiest to like person i met she's always been there for me My dad comes from Dallas, and he was a provider, a great provider.

You know, a classic old-school dad took care of us. My dad was really strict. I mean, he wore the pants in the family. My dad got a scholarship, played major college football, was a Marine, and then it became an FBI agent. And what did he? focus on sports oh and the f in the bureau yeah yeah well my dad was a man that revealed very little about himself and even less about his job but when we were in ohio where i was born he was is just a resident agency so i think they just covered everything whatever came in the door right

could be bank robbery could be drugs could be i know that he used to um it's not like he was on a task force no okay he used to he used to be out of town for two or three days investigating the theft of cars that cross the state lines but other than that I don't know a funny story my mom told me about was there was a drive-in movie and they were showing a movie called Flesh Gordon

and there was an X-rated version and then there was kind of like a softcore version so dad had to go check out the movie to make sure they were playing the soft core version and he took my mom on this undercover steakout. But growing up, sports were a big deal. My brother was playing little league sports, high school sports. My brother played college baseball.

I mean, I stuck with basketball through high school. But watching sports was a big deal that's when my dad didn't seem so frustrated and mad. And, you know, we were big fans of the Dallas Cowboys. boys of, uh, I don't know. Uh, did you get into trouble when you were a kid or? First time I got in trouble. I was five years old, Matt. Um, there was a kid that, that my mom agreed to watch. It was her friend who played tennis with her. And, uh, I didn't know the kid. I was five. I was a little bitty shit, you know, you're five. But in my, my house, there's a lot of rules. It was real strict. You follow my dad's rules. He and, you know,

it was kind of like the guest was. always right but this kid had just lost his father and his mom was out on a date and that's why he was with us so I don't think he was in a good place so when we were at church how was he he was like six or seven he was a year or two older than me but um and I was a real gullible naive kid you know I think if this kid would have been my friend I wouldn't have agreed to do what he wanted to do but he he hatched to plan when we were in church that we were going to walk to his house and that was a long way away and i was like okay and uh we got our on the big wheels remember the little big wheel things did you have one those were awesome um we rode our big wheels up to the end of the

cul-de-sac ditched them and we were going to walk to his house maybe an hour away and there was uh our neighbors had a barbed wire fence that that was the shortcut there was these two big german shepherds that kind of guarded the opening of this fence and i was i was scared of dogs you know we didn't have dogs our family so we get to these dogs I'm scared and the kid walks to him he's like come on they're not going to hurt you you don't get through so I walked through him we walked to his house and he looks in the window and uh then he says okay let's go and I'm like what the you know why did we do all this so he could look in his window so I was like I'm not walking through back through the dogs and we're going to go the long way so the long way was like

two or three hours, and we were going a long time. So when we were walking through this, this, um, farmer's field, there was a barn. And he pushed me in the barn. And he told me that the old widow farmer lady likes to shoot trespassers with a, with a shotgun loaded with salt. And he pushed me in this barn. And I remember all the things up to that point, but after that, I don't remember anything but we'd been going for hours and my mom and dad were freaking out my brother and all the neighborhood kids were um looking for us and when i got home my dad kind of snatched me by the arm and took me up to the room and he was spanking me you know and he wanted me to cry to submit and my mom said i wouldn't do it you know i felt like hey this ain't all me that wasn't my friend

i was just being a guest i was looking out for him but my mom started to cry so she started So I started to cry or whatever But ever since then I felt like I couldn't come to my dad Like I had to hide stuff from them You know Right And after that kind of a pattern established

Of taking risk So like when our neighbors had to shed And I climbed up on the top of it And I was throwing tools off of it I got too far from the edge And I took a header Landed on my wrist My wrist was hurt real bad

And I had to hide it from my dad you know and another time i rolled our skateboard down this steep ass hill and crash at the bottom had to hide it another time i um was climbing this tree i was way high and i was holding on to a branch like this and the branch broke and i was falling two two you know hitting branches i latched on the one and i caught myself but um i just i've read about younger siblings taking risk but But it seemed like subconsciously I was finding trouble and then hiding, you know? Right. It makes me sound like some sort of psycho-serial killer, but it's not that bad.

But I think every single one of us, when we look back at our life, has little patterns and little tells that I don't know. Right. My brother always obedient, straight, you know, good at sports. he knew he was supposed to be a Republican when he was eight years old kind of like Michael J. Fox you know and I remember like with sports

he remembered every you know where this guy going to college and he knew he's like a sports team still to this day sports is his you know he follows his college football team around he loves sports that's my brother's way of kind of party you know but I remember my brother used to like

talk about communists. Remember when the communists were the cold war and we were supposed to fear the communist and I'd tell my brother hate on the communist and my dad would be all proud of him and stuff and I would be like, man, he doesn't know anything about this stuff. You know, he's just doing what dad wants him to. So I would say something like

if our government tells us that their government lies to them, Couldn't our government be lying to us? And they would call me a communist, you know? If you can see that dynamic, right, good, bad, you know, positive reinforcement was not, was a rare commodity in our house. And my brother kind of cornered the market on that. So, you know, like to poke the bear.

Yes, sir. My friends later on I'm going to tell you about, I think similar, you know. Right. But the only other thing about being from Ohio, that kind of added to this story is my whole family is from Texas and the older brother kind of rub it in that you're a Yankee you know we're all from Texas you know kind of thing just kind of that's the kind of way it was um kind of the way it was um I hope you high school do you get in trouble in high school or yeah I always got great grades

because I had to get good grades um I mean we started getting trouble very young. When we moved to Ohio, I felt depression. I mean, I didn't know. I felt just like my whole world was dying. After we moved from, my dad got transferred from

Zanesville, Ohio to Oklahoma City. He's from Texas, and the Bureau makes the agents move every 10 years, I think probably so they can't get corrupted or something. I don't know. But, you know, it's like you put in where your preferred residence is and Dallas is where my dad's from so we got closer to Dallas so Oklahoma is Indian territory if you remember that from your history channel and I think

that place is a little cursed from all that but when I moved there I was immediately getting into trouble it's just guys on my little eight how old were you eight Jesus Christ all right go ahead um i have a story but i can't tell the story but um my one of the friends i met my first friends and this guy is going to be a key player in this story um his name was jake and we played on the same little league basketball team right same little league football basketball baseball baseball my dad would coach one team his dad would coach other i mean we were close and so I spent the night at his house and his mom and dad said good night boys have a nice night and about 30 minutes later his older brother Corby eases the bedroom window up and I'm like

what's up and we snuck out into the forbidden night you know and it felt kind of good you know I mean I don't know what we did we I think we ran around and rang doorbells and ran I think we broke into a car and stole some coax some some grocery some grocery bags that were left in a car but from the get go i mean these guys were crazy they didn't like get where they weren't scared of getting in trouble like i wouldn't do this if i was at my house because my dad would have my ass right but um through the years we used to sneak out all the time when i hung out with jake jake was was kind of the opposite he was a confident charismatic kid you know alpha he you know when you're around jake you felt like you were you were the show you weren't watching the show you were the shit you know um um

like jake when we were in elementary school he would be like the the school fight promoter and he would get started a fight but then he would arrange a decoy fight on the other side of the schoolyard so the real fight could last longer um and he they were always talking about sex girls you know i didn't even know what that was but i mean when we were like in the fifth grades or he was in the sixth grade and he had a fifth grade girlfriend he wanted to have sex with this girl so he devised a plan that got and got her friends using peer pressure, he got with him and said, man, I know you girls are all virgins,

but I want to get with this girl and talk like you're not to get her to have sex with him, which she didn't fall for. But Jake was real manipulated. Right. So first time I ever smoked pot, I was offered drugs was the sixth grade. And this kid down the street,

it wasn't jake he's like hey you want to try something and i was like okay and he went into his dad's bathroom pulled out a little baggie of this green fluffy substance and and and we rolled up a joint and i mean it sucked we couldn't even smoke it but it seemed like anytime anyone offered me anything i was like okay you know and there was this feeling at home based on the relationship with my dad that things weren't right you know it never felt right at home it felt more I felt more like when we snuck out at night like the night accepted you could be who you were you didn't have to have this mask you know and it seemed like that was a pattern with people you know the people that were a little dark I guess you would say right

I would feel more comfortable around I mean I think that's common when people look back at their life but um uh the first time I ever smoked pot for real I I I I I met with Jake. Jake was a year younger than me. So we had this house in our neighborhood. It was called the Round House. It was kind of an anomaly. It had Spanish tile, and it was a round house, like Adobe,

and all other houses weren't like that. It was just old ranch houses, suburban ranch houses. But I met Jake at the Roundhouse. That was our meeting spot halfway between our houses, and we're ahead of the baseball practice, and he's acting kind of funny, kind of goofy, and his eyes are kind of red. And I'm like, what's wrong with you, dude?

He's like, man, me and my older brother, Corby, and these kids that moved into the neighborhood, these two brothers, we smoked pot. I'm high. And I'm like, no, you're not. You know, I didn't believe them. So we got to baseball practice, and we're warming up. You know, you're playing catch.

Right. Coach is right there. And Jake fakes like a high fly to me. I look up and he drills me right in the gut, you know, with the ball. And I'm like, oh, and he's on the ground laughing. I believe you know he was I believed them there right so the next day um we all met in the ditch and the ditch it's like you know the canals and subdivisions they built a right you know that was our clubhouse and it was connected with these miles of tunnels and the tunnels were you know

the first cigarette first game of truth or dare with girls you know first a lot of at first but I sat with four guys smoking weed for the first time my friend jake his older brother corby there our new friend danny and his little brother david we're all sitting in a ditch underground on the tunnels you know and they're telling me come on i can't figure out how to inhale it they're like come on dumb ass come on pussy you know right i finally figured out how to do it and we walked out and i was like wow this is great this is great um but the fates of those four guys are going to lead to this story you know it's kind of like the classic thing story you hear about drugs and and and you know what happens to the results of drug drugs and stuff

and um but uh so through high school that you know i i played sports i got good grades i walked the line i hung out with my buddy and he was doing wild stuff even back then but i was the one that would always say no i'm not jake this jake yeah jake was just wild you know and uh around the eighth grade he told me he was going to um steal a car and him and another guy waited outside of a daycare in our neighborhood and they jumped in a car when the person went in to go pick up their kids they drove to um mexico went to oklahoma from oklahoma eighth grade how far away is mexico from oklahoma yeah it's about 15 hours but there's there's i weren't with them no no see i didn't do that kind of stuff but um what he told me is they went to a town

called boys town right across the border in laredo and it's kind of a famous kind of sex tour town where truckers go across and you know there's bordellos and right they partaked they got late how old was he about 14 um it's not going to end good for jake i can already tell you know what he's doing really good now now and out of respect his family treated me like family you know and there was some when we first met He told me that him and his mom and dad didn't love each other and they're going to get divorced when they're 18. And I, you know, I didn't know how to process that. But I think that, that, you know, knowing that they weren't on firm ground, I think Jake and his brother lost respect, you know, yeah.

Yeah, that impending doom of their whole family would break up at the age of 18. that didn't give him a firm foundation to it seemed like things were kind of a lie you know and his family treated me like my family so i think he had a similar situation where one parent was really accepting and the other parent was strict and could turn off love and you know and i'm not going to really say which one out of respect to the family but um um i think that has effect on a self-image the same way I didn't really feel like I belonged in my own that outsider that's misfit and I know there's a lot of people especially at this age that can probably relate to that to some degree but um uh did he get in trouble when he came back I mean if he's gone if it's a 15

hour drive he would call his parents and they would they they rescued him they get a bus ticket but when we were younger they got into a lot of trouble and they um they always had jobs and you know they did their chores around you know it's it's not what you think you know things weren't all right into lily white suburbs you know from the outside in it looks looks good but i mean i think we can all say that as well but um uh around jake's older brother corby started hanging out with that danny kid a lot danny was do you remember the movie the outsiders yeah

Danny was a greaser he was a character from the outsiders they came from the rougher part of town and he was real standoffish you know he seemed like he was ready to fight like he had a chip on his shoulder all the time but um I heard that his father worked for a bookie

a famous bookie the biggest bookie in Oklahoma City a guy by the name of potipo but that's a whole other story and he comes up later on in this life I met him in prison but while visiting my friend in prison I didn't do any time but Danny and Corby were hanging out

and Corby was acting crazy you know he's just having all kinds of problems at home one time I spent the night with Jake and Corby came home late and he got into a cussing match with his parents like you know if you y'all don't love me you know he well it turns out that him and core danny were smoking free basing you know they were into cocaine right and um this would have been i was probably 14 and but i wasn't

doing cocaine but he was probably about 16 the one thing about cori was he was he wasn't in the sports like we were but he was in the drama department and i saw him in junior high he performed the lead in a play and he crushed it he was singing and you know he was an actor and he continued on with that through high school and he had colleges looking at him for giving him a scholarship for the drama department but um it was the summer before my sophomore year in high school and it would have been for corby the summer before his senior year in high school there was a newspaper article about a man had been found shot in this multi-level tree house probably five miles from our house on the north side of Oklahoma City and I'd heard about this tree

house it was some like BMXers and skaters had bought had built it I'd never been there but a guy got shot there they found him with a bullet wound to the head and it was a big case and it's the tree it was called the tree house murder and the late and the headlines and um they didn't know who did it for a couple days so it kind of came out who done it but i remember my dad coming to me and asking me if i knew anything about this and it was canvassing the neighborhood well it was from the newspapers because it was uh my best friend's older brother was the suspect you know and bam so this is jake's older brother is the suspect okay and um it Turns out there was a guy, his name was Thornton.

I'm going to say his real name because he's passed out of respect to his family. I'm not going to say his last name, but he was 25-year-old guy hanging out with high school kids. That's odd. Right. Drugs. Right. You know, the paper said allegedly he was selling marijuana to the kids. I'm sure that they were doing other things as well.

But also it says allegedly that he was making sexual advances on these boys. And one night, one of Danny and Corby's friends got kicked out of this guy's apartment. And Corby and Danny had been freebase and cocaine all day and drinking. So they went over there to kind of avenge their friend being kicked out. And I'm sure there was other reasons behind it. You know, it was a scene I wasn't involved with. But they lured him to this tree house probably to get high or give him money or something. and Corby shot him and uh so how did they find out that Corby shot him you're saying they

didn't know for a few days but how did I think he turned himself in and I think they had a pretty good idea about it you know from from back traveling but yeah he turned himself in um um the crazy thing about that is I remember one night me and Jake had snuck out and we went over to Danny's house this was before this happened hopefully you can edit it but um um um and it's the first time i see danny kind of let his guard down and he was you know we got high or something we remember that song 867 5309 jen we were air guitar and that it was cool we had fun but now i was like you know i got to go that jenny don't lose this number right um and um so they they made a big deal about it you know i'd walked home

millions of times but they're like no we're going to walk you home and danny pulled out this gun and i'm like what the fuck we don't need this you know and they they made a big deal about walking me home whatever see you later well that was the same gun that was used in that right the murder but it's devastating you know i felt bad for jake i bet bad for corby i felt bad for his family you know it was a big trial and so there was an actual trial or did he end up pleading guilty there was a trial and i haven't mentioned this on this tape i mentioned it to you um jake and corby's father was a high-ranking official with the state department of corrections he was one of the top five guys for the oklahoma state department of corrections so that was blasted all in the papers

and um so he's trying to mount some kind of a defense like hey attacked me or i was self-defense and i shot him that sort of thing right i mean i'm i'm sure they tried to otherwise there's no and they even go to trial like the trial shot the guy i read the transcripts and um it was basically i think it was whether or not it was going to be a murder or you know i think they his family hired high-priced attorneys got it reduced to premeditated murder to a manslaughter he got convicted of manslaughter in the first degree how much how much time 99 years at 17 years old i mean that's pretty stiff for a manslaughter well i mean i mean he's he's in jail now no okay so he didn't do 99 years then no he got out after 16 years fuck um doing really good what i hear i haven't talked to

him but making well into six figures right on the right path i think because of who his father was and it had been blasted. He couldn't go to an Oklahoma prison. He, you know, maximum security prison. And I know that, I don't know any of the details are particular. I know that he was out in California and I think Washington State. And I think it was a pretty easy prison where he got like conchigals and stuff like that. But I'm not sure.

I mean, I know it. Yeah, I got congeals because I think he had a family. Man, I really, I don't want to go into his life. Anyway, yeah, yeah. so so i hope y'all can edit that part you got to stop worry don't worry about it it's fine i had all just just um so what so so so anyway so it was devastating right um you know i remember the radio played uh from the trial and you heard a shriek in the courtroom when they announced the sentence and i was their their sister you know freaking out and jake and you know i felt like

he was a pariah you know a lot of his friends parents told him don't hang around this guy you know he's bad news and my family always never did that to me right they were they were friends with me i mean we were all tight and they didn't judge but um it sucked i mean it's sad that that happened you know and i think that happened because a guy was really high in sight on in a state of psychosis induced by drugs you know and in his trial it says you know he admitted that he doesn't remember anything until he hearing a gunshot and looking down and it was in his hand so um crazy kids don't do drugs man so so i mean so what happened after that i mean he is you know are you did you know are they're still in the same you're still hanging out with him you're still the same um

You know, we ran in different groups. Jake's a center of attention guy in junior high. Do you remember a bullshit popularity contest? We called it spirit royalty. He was always voted one of the top three. I didn't really consider him this way, but girls would say he's a super good-looking guy, right, confidence, you know.

By the time high school came around, I think he'd gotten kind of a bad reputation. but we would see each other and some of us we were friends but I didn't hang out in the same groups

as him when me and Jake hung out alone I felt like we could be ourselves but it seemed like when we were around groups that's when he tried to be a badass you know

and starting fights with people and all that and that was not my scene at all at that time so but through high school uh you know Jake played football and he was a real good football player and his sophomore year he was on the jv team and he scored like seven of the touchdowns at their team

it's you know seven out of the 10 touchdowns but he was hanging out with that danny kid and why he would hang out with the same guy that was partially responsible you know right for a this is why I'm right this is why you look back and you know what happened you know it's it's friends even though I'm not making excuses for anybody or myself but you I mean you I'm sure you have done that to some degree haven't you yeah sure everybody is um but they were hanging out Danny and Jake were robbing houses in high school and in Oklahoma City the toughest neighborhood that we knew of was the projects called cur village so they would rob houses go to cur village and handle their business you know trading their stolen goods and buying crack and for suburban kids to go into the

toughest neighborhoods you know i mean yeah yeah it's a recipe for disaster it's also you know when you come from a very structured life and everything's you know as it should be there's no real excitement there's no real rights of passage proving grounds i think that's something that that was evident and all that but um jake was on the path to go to prison you know right and but he straightened up and he had a a girlfriend a good a good girl that he that he you know they dated and she i think she influenced him he ended up dropping out of school because he got kicked off the football team and enrolled in a private school in which he um he could work at his own pace and he finished his junior and senior year in one year married his high school sweetheart

and they moved away to baltimore which was a he needed to get out of all the influences that that he had um so after high school that's where jake went for me even though this story is all about my friend you know i found out that i was my dad got transferred back to dallas so the day i moved graduated high school we moved to dallas and here i am in dallas now i'm going to switch this story up okay uh this is this crazy thing in my life but when i moved to dallas it was just like when i moved to from ohio to koma city i felt like my whole world was dying or in the state of depression, you know, which I was moving to a great city with beautiful women, you know, all kinds of opportunity, but I had to feel sorry for myself, you know, and I was kind of

mad at the world and we were staying with my grandparents and my dad's parents and my dad's parents and they were really strict, you know, they were a lot like my dad. I saw, you know, the kind of people that you couldn't really be yourself around, but they were successful yeah i wasn't in a great state of mind rebellious right and i didn't want to move to dallas who little violence um we were staying with my grandfather my grandfather was very religious and um is the catholic no we were protestant very protestant people very hold your emotions in really yeah so so Catholics, I feel, it's a very, it's a very, kind of a scary religion.

There's all kinds of, you know, there's all kinds of saints and spirits and this is all kinds of shit going on. There's crosses and don't get me started because you will not get monetized and it's off, off topic. There's the seances and there's, what do you call it, um, exorcists and, you know, all this creepy shit comes out of the Catholic religion. Like, super creepy. I mean, when I was a child, they told me that there's a. invisible man that controls all and he knows every thought in my head and he's judging my to me that's pretty scary and intrusive but that's a whole other should should keep you on the straight and narrow but apparently it didn't so you moved so you moved so we moved and um we were

stayed with my grandparents my grandparents my paternal grandparents always represented how we were supposed to be you know nice house country club brought us to church. Grandma always had swimming lessons and tennis lessons and vacation Bible school. And so they represented what I thought at that time was righteous, yes. Pious life that you're supposed to be living. Right on. And my grandpa, and you just mentioned that you're a Catholic and the difference between Catholics and Protestants, which I am,

is that in Protestants, you decide on your own free will when you get saved. When you accept the Savior, you buy the whole Bible. And when I was little, older brother, of course, did it when he was 12. And like a lot of people do it. I noticed my older brother all sitting with the kids from his class, and they all got saved at the same time. I thought to myself, just like the communist thing, I'm like, well, that preacher says that this is, you're supposed to be sure, absolutely pure faith. But why are they doing it all around

the same time? Are they actually sure when you're 12 years old? Are they doing it because their friends are doing it or because grandma and grandpa did it and because mom and dad did it? I was that kind of asshole that questioned everything from from the start. So I never did it because I didn't feel like I would be being honest. I thought eventually I would work myself when I got older, you know. So my grandpa, you know, at that time I had long hair smoking, kind of a little rebel. Grandpa had to talk with me. They'd come to Jesus talk, literally. Right. And I gave him the same answer I just gave you very respectful and honest, you know. And he was quiet because he couldn't say nothing and the way it was the way my dad my grandpa was is you could tell that they were

upset but they all their emotions were bottled internalized it yeah that's a big theme in my in our family but um the next day my grandpa freaked out on me and it's something involved he accused me of being about the worst person you can be which i wasn't and it was involved another family member and it was kind of a backhanded accusation and it was stupid and i knew it was based on our conversation before but at that time you know my dad had told me um i mean my dad had this conversation like son you shouldn't be doing this or whatever and i got mad because i was like that's what he thought i was doing you know and um i i told my dad i can't stay in this house anymore and you know my dad understood i mean the thing my dad my grandpa accused me of was i can't even

address it and it didn't happen you know it was stupid and my dad understood that but um i left but that's the point in my life where all the things that my friend jake you know had offered to come on come do this come get in this kind of trouble and i always said no at this point i said f it i don't care it was my breaking bad moment i guess even though i never heard that that term so by the by i'd moved to dallas and the first friend that i met in dallas this is a crazy story you're gonna think you're gonna think i'm crazy but i'm gonna tell it just how it happened is i was on my way to work i've seen this hot little like like uh heavy metal dope skinny kind of Stevie Nicks type, and I was wearing a Led Zeppelin shirt, and she gives me the devil

horns like that. And that was my first friend in Dallas, and she was 17. Her name was Sheila. And that day, we had lunch. And she's asking me what I'm into. And I was like, you know, I like music, having a good time, sports, whatever. And she's like, no, what are you into? And I'm like, I don't know what you meet. And she says, I'm a witch. And she said, oh, it won't work on you based on my reaction. You know, that's a world I never acknowledged whatever. So anyway, her, she had a boyfriend, and they were my first friends in Dallas.

And her boyfriend's name was John. What was he? He was just a suburban kid that they were, they were, they were. But he never said anything. They were hardcore alcoholics. At 17? Yeah. I mean, they were the kids that I didn't hang around.

You know, the freaks in school. Right, right. They were more like that. You know, we were more like the jocks. Eyesod wearing polo wearing. Yeah. Yeah. Outsiders.

Yeah. I like it. But one thing these guy told me, you know, he had these friends in Dallas on the north side of Dallas, there's a big old church. It was called the world of faith. And it was a famous tele-evangelist named Robert Tilton when, you know, broadcast on TV. I think he got caught up in a scandal. Well, him and his alcoholic friends, I mean, hardcore alcoholics, probably in high school, they decided to rob a grape. And they broke into this church and perched a skull up in a urinal.

Wow I These are all bad So um So you know John I think is the name I called him um He had just gotten out of jail for his like third DWI And they were just my friends they accepted me

And this is the kid that's like said they're what 17 18 years old Yeah he was a year or two older but the the girl Sheila was a runaway from Tulsa And I got to know her but I got to be more friends with John because I'm not going to be best friends with the guy's girlfriend. But one day they're sitting around and we drank a little bit

and drop some acid maybe. But they're like, you want to do some speed? And I'm like, okay, like I always do. They busted out needles. And I'm like, no, I'm good. You know, they're like, no, no, this is the best way to do it. You know, I'm like, okay. And so I'd snorted Coke once in high school.

But next thing, you know, I'm shooting up meth, you know. And I hear all the addiction shows on YouTube talk about horrible addiction. People get on opiates and heroin and stuff like that. But, I mean, shooting up meth, I did it on the weekends and I went to work. Oh, I didn't become a junkie like that. But that went on first. about a year but a crazy story and i wasn't high when this happened wasn't drunk but john used to like for me to come pick him up hang out with his boys he would leave

Sheila at home and Sheila didn't like that she would freak out she'd be screaming and yelling and all kinds of stuff but one particular night i go pick him up and she's real calm sitting in the corner of the room and the mood's kind of like um When a storm hits, you know, that morose is kind of quiet, but you feel something in the air. Right. She looks at John, as we're leaving, and says, I won't be responsible for what happens to you if you leave me alone tonight. And we're like, okay, you know, she's tripping out. Put a hex on him or.

Okay. So we go over to his friend's house. And his friend has a Japanese fighting sword. and John grabs it and picks it up says check this out dude and he's in a cover

he thinks the cover only opens like this but it really opens like that and he sliced his fingers bad like bloods everywhere so I'm freaking out you know I take him to his mom's house his mom takes him to the ER

I call him a couple days later and he's like come check this shit out dude So I go over to his house and he's got a cast from here to here and they had like rubber bands connected to the cast and they had drilled holes in his fingernails with strings tied to the rubber bands because they had to reattach all his tendons. Oh. So that that held it in place. But the crazy thing about this was the scars on his fingers were three lightning bolt asses. and that was the initials

of his girlfriend do-da-do it happened okay I was going to say so I was going to say what so what happened when he healed he was fine

yeah he was fine and couldn't play the guitar anymore no more piano or maybe he had a superpower so you never know but an interesting story

about this girl is when she moved to Dallas, her first boyfriend was in a band. He had started a band. The name of this band was called the New Bohemians. Okay. They were playing

one night at a club in Deep Ellum, which is a section of Dallas where it's cool, it was a party section of Dallas. And a girl joined them on stage on a dare from their friends. And this girl's name was Edie Burkell. Edie Brickell to know bohemians.

Right. They, they popped off with an album. You know, remember the song, I'm not aware of too many things. I know what I know if you know what I mean. And shove me in the shallow water. And Sheila was dating the guitar player? Yeah, Sheila's boyfriend, they all lived in a house in a section of Dallas on Greenville Avenue. It's kind of artistic section.

Well, Edie kicked Sheila out of their house because Edie said she's practicing black magic on people she just couldn't she just couldn't couldn't get right now couldn't do the right thing if and that you you have I was raised in within the container of reason in reality that stuff did not happen but when you witness stuff like that makes you read calculate whatever some scars it's fine uh oh I I can tell you all kinds of stories now I get into Native American stuff and they acknowledge those worlds as being real.

Even your own world you just mentioned has exorcisms, right? There's all kinds of craziness going on. Anyway, yeah, yeah. That is a world beyond real and reason and a lot of people don't care to have no reason to venture out from their that's all I can say.

But on that album, You know, the album that Edie Pekyll and New Bohemians came out with shooting rubber bands at the stars. There's a song called Little Miss S. You read the lyrics to it. I'm pretty sure it's about this girl that... What happened to her? Her and Jeff had a, you know, she was... They broke up.

She went back home. I really don't know. I hope she's all right. Right. That's all I can say. What's up, Sheila? I hope I'm not breaking the rules of fight club here. So what happened after that?

So I told you those stories just to tell you the mindset I was in. So my old buddy, Jay, moved to Baltimore, got married, trying to get away from all the bad influence. He's on a path to prison. Somehow him and his wife moved back to Oklahoma City. They got homesick or whatever. And, of course, being around all the old influences, they didn't last too long. So he got a hold of me.

And I went up there. I think I was in college, a community college, probably during Christmas break or something. And he was splitting up with his wife. And him and Danny had hooked back up. They were up to their old games of breaking into houses. So they taught me into breaking. in the house is with them. So how old are you at this point?

19, 18. So one weekend, I go out. We drive around all the neighborhoods, rich neighborhoods of north side of Oklahoma City. And just like you see in the movies or whatever, you're looking for newspapers and driveways. And we found a few prospects. Waited until dark. And we'd drive through the same houses, the houses we remembered.

And slowly we'd open up the mailbox. And if they had mail in their in their mailbox, they were going to rob them. And this is way beyond my... Because they're assuming that the house is vacant because they didn't get the mail. Someone's out of... Yeah, they got newspapers in their yard. They're getting mail. They're robbing the house.

That's, you know, I mean, security people used to say, don't leave... If you're going out of town, pick up your newspapers. Yeah, yeah. Wouldn't happen now because nobody gets a newspaper. Yeah. we don't read anymore you put an 80 a 80 80s sign in your front yard and people just keep on driving right I'd rather go to the next house right um but so we spent that night breaking in about three house I was just driving you know right and they would be like okay let us off in the

alley I was just driving you're part of the conspiracy I know like the guy driving the getaway car and I you know I know these two guys that are robin banks how do you know I'm driving the getaway car. It wasn't my fault, Dad. It's my friend's fault, man. So. But, dude, you, you know, I would drop them off in the alley and they'd say, come back every 15 minutes, man. And, you know, I was nervous.

This is a world I did not. What year is this? There's no cell phones or pagers or nothing like that, right? Or is there? It would have been in 1988, 88? Yeah, no. 89? No, you guys.

It was pagers. Yeah, but there's no fucking, it's not like you guys had a motor old cell phone. where you're going yeah yeah yeah oh no so i was wondering like what do you mean that for 15 minutes like yeah and i had to drive back and i mean i'm not i'm not proud of this yeah you know i just did it and they're very influential about from my friends but um we wrote about three houses and the funny thing after this happened and we had vCRs and silver and gold and they got a bunch like pillow cases full of change from this one how i mean a thousand dollars worth the spare change of the guy I had or something.

I don't know. But Danny and Jake would have this conversation that I'm sure they've had many times before where Jake was like, okay, we're going to take this money and we're going to invest it and we're going to rise up. We're going to quit robbing houses. And Danny, it was like, we're going to go buy heroin. That's right. Yeah, we're going to buy cocaine to start selling it.

We're going to. this is our our come up and and dan he was like okay yeah we're just doing this one time we're going to so kyle a good time right and we go into the projects the toughest neighborhood of oklahoma city was called curr village or at least it was to us and right driving to the projects and the thing about that place is there's only one way in and one way out which kind of adds to the element of danger but my friend had been doing this since high school you know a little 16 year old kid going in in these places and he told me he's like you know these people have the edge on us because you know they're from the projects or whatever and he said

all you have to do is act crazy do something crazy in front of a group and you take the edge back they're scared of crazy white boys is exactly you know this is the kind of intent this guy he had nuts dude he had nuts from the time he was young dude but um So we went in there, supposedly one time. And that's, that actually like three or four days of a crack binge. And you guys didn't, there was no, we didn't do our come up. There's no, no reinvestment. Yeah, it reminded me as playing sports, right?

And, you know, coaches talking about, we're going to take state or whatever. But, um, that happened, nothing, you know, I didn't get busted, thank God. But, um, I guess I went back. back home to Dallas, and it was summer vacation. Jake had kind of linked up with this other guy, and his name, I called him Aldo in the book. Right. I'd heard about Aldo in high school,

like all the girls chirping through the halls about this great-looking dude that they all liked, and he was from a different school, and he was kind of like a pirate or a conquistador conquering, all the suburban girls, you know. I could have named him Fonzie or Fabio. okay and uh i'll bet you that colby doesn't know who either one of those people are i know bobby who has long here it's about all right see all this stuff is dated yeah

no i understand everything i i know everything that you're everything you're saying but you know every time i i think oh that that's you know my generation i immediately think colby's never seen the outsiders he doesn't know what a greaser is he doesn't know what a soci is he like there's all these things that i but usually i say something but i was going to do we could educate you look on stuff that he is no reason to know i don't care last yeah i got enough the outsiders less than zero that's a great movie um god i can't yeah um what's the other movie about the vampires um the lost boys i was a big jim morrison fan back in the day so um um where was at so aldo fabio fabio um jake had hooked up with this guy aldo and to give a back stirring him

another made-up name but aldo was uh his mom was italian american and his father was latin so you can imagine this guy you know casanova don juan but aldo had spent time in houston so i guess jake and auto had combined their superpower superpowers of juvenile delinquency and he jake started doing what he'd talked about with danny they were going to houston and scoring um ecstasy mdm right and um so they were driving down there one time and they were drinking or something and and auto rolled a car and he got busted and they busted him for a DWI and they had traces of cocaine

or something like that. So Alta was sitting in the jail kind of thing. I think he was just sitting out his DUI time. And Jake got a hold of me. It was my summer vacation from college. What did I do on my summer vacation?

You know? So he's like, dude, I got this new crew and we're going to Houston and it's not what I was doing with Dan It's fun. You got to come check it out. So I was like, okay, that sounds awesome, man, you know. And so I moved up to back to Oklahoma City.

And me and Jake started going down to Houston and scoring ecstasy pills. And we were living with this girl, you know, very attractive girl. And there was all the girls in the scene, they would come down to Oklahoma City. and i mean they would come down to houston with us and houston at that time was just crazy you know it was all these clubs um all these suburban kids and that that vibe you know when you're on x you're everything is relevant and you're cool and and it's just the spirit of love energy man it's cool but um to be down there scoring drugs it's it's a port town So all the suppliers know people come in from out of town.

So when word gets out that there's buyers, you know, they would come to your hotel room and offer you, I got this, this, this, this for this much, you know, it was kind of cool and it was kind of like an underground. And at that time, you know, you're worried about your future and going to college and what you're supposed to be major, but this was majoring and this was different. This was free, you know, it was like F you to all that stuff.

So, um, so we started driving to Houston picking up three, four hundred ecstasy pills. And you're bringing them back. What are you doing? You're selling them yourself or you? Yes. Somebody else. Okay. We're selling them, buy them for $6 a pill. Sell them for 25 bucks a pill. And this is at the time, fashion to set the scene. It's, remember the kind of the zoot suits? Uh, like your beau and Kazi and Zee Kavarici there. Yeah, he's a cabaret.

That was our crew. We all had Zee Kavarichis with their baggy pants, and they were filled up with pills. And we were only 20 years old. We weren't even old enough to get into the club. Right. But bartender had given them a couple. I mean, we were kind of like the draw, you know, and free drinks. It was living that high life.

And so that went on. And, you know, eventually, I mean, I remember the girl that we were living at, you know, when we moved in there, I was like, man, are you sure it's okay for me to stay with her? You know, and he's like, oh, she don't mind, you know. It was a one-bedroom apartment, and I don't, it was too much, you know. But I remember that she had told me that her mother was dating her friends with the guy that worked for the sheriff. And even back then, you know, girls top, our business was being told to authorities or whatever. right and um but you know we were driving from between okoma city and houston like once twice a week

you know and then eventually we were living in hotels and it was just crazy i mean it's it's a lot of work doing that you know right and um how long does this go on um it went on my summer vacation basically but we eventually moved into an apartment and uh it was a real high tone high a nice apartment had two bedrooms had a hot tub in one of the bedrooms and uh it was like less than a mile from the subdivision we grew up in the far northwest side of oklahoma city but um um our landlord was his finance guy that'd been barred for doing some shady deals or something right he sat in the leasing office taking bets he worked for a big bookie all day but we would pay our rent with pills or later eight balls you know it's kind of kind of weird but you know it was club life

all that it's kind of like a 16 year old wet dream you know right girls money jake and auto bought matching zx10 ninja you know motorcycles they might as well have said had i am a drug dealer tattooed on their foreheads you know they i remember jake you to Western Union money to Houston to make deals I'm like you can't do that you're leaving a trip you know he's like oh fuck it if they if they don't catch it with me on me they can't you know do so yeah that's not true but I hear you to end when you're a kid right yeah the feds they can do anything we're all guilty yeah right the feds want you I hope they're not coming after me after all this dude but um uh so out all that the the the profit ecstasy

we weren't making that much and um i had i had taken a couple thousand dollars out of my college fund you know and i gave it to jake and i told him dude i'm not a drug dealer you know i just want his money back i was kind of like that idealist it's like man these drugs were meant to teach us you know like a hippie i don't believe making money off of them you know just pay me my money but he's like sure okay you know um but uh Aldo had had met a guy at the club and this guy was from a famous basketball family in Oklahoma is all I can say I believe that he had coached either him or his brother had coached a team I played junior high basketball against and I guess he told drugs too or something but Alto had gotten him to commit to giving us 3,300 dollars for three ounces of cocaine so we were switching commodities at that point well they could get a quarter key for 43 and 40 a quarter key is eight ounces and this guy was

only one in three ounces so for a thousand dollars they got five ounces of cocaine pretty much so we we were going to drive it down to houston this guy has a mistress this beautiful blonde lady She was like a model, like a local swimsuit model or whatever. And probably in her 30s. She kind of resembled Melanie Griffin, Griffith. Remember the blonde-haired actress? Oh, yeah, yeah. But she's beautiful.

And we drive down to Houston, we pick her up. And as we're driving down, you know, Jake gives her like a couple hits of ecstasy, and we're all rolling, you know. and she'd never done it before and we're having a good old time and she looks at him and she's like I can't believe I'm going down to make a major drug deal with you because you look like you're 16 years old

and your friend back there looks like he's about 14 she points at me so that was crazy but we went down to Houston they scored the coke whatever and it was ether cut fish scale what people talk about the most preferred

type of cocaine and we dropped her off at the airport she had these baggy pants on and she straps it all to her thighs and all that stuff and the way she goes and from that point yeah the ecstasy no one gets strung out on it you know right it's it it was okay but the cocaine's a little bit more serious but most people are the stuff they were getting is straight off the brick pure most people cut it right they didn't cut it you know we just sold it but sold at a very high price so um from that point at things got weird you know i didn't i didn't want to be there but i just wanted to get my money back which they could

have paid me at any time but they did so um um but there was a time we went down to houston and um we used to do a lot of acid we didn't do a cocaine i didn't do a cocaine i didn't like it wouldn't like the way it feels it right like nothing sucks more than if you've ever been in a room full of cokeheads talking it's they just talk talk talk and they don't hear you at all you know but um so me and jake are on our way on a dope run to houston okay we have just enough money to re up right you know a little for traveling as usually we drop some acid tripping balls It was way down there. And we were going to turn and burn.

We were going to make the deal to come around, turn back. I tell him, dude, I got to get some sleep. I can't turn around drive. If you want me to drive, I'm going to get a hotel. And he's like, yeah, cool. And I see a hotel on the north side of Houston. And it's $25 a room. It's a nice hotel.

It's a bargain. And it was daylight. So it looks good. And then we pull in there. And I remember this black dude. sitting there asking me if I need anything, it should have been a giveaway. And I'm right, no, we're straight, appreciate it, whatever.

But so Jake goes to make the deal. And I'm at this hotel and day turns in the night. And I'm hearing gunshots and people, do, doong, banging on doors and screaming. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I started looking out the window and there's the same car circling the parking lot. And I'm like, man, what's going on here? And he gets back. and I'm like telling him we need to get out of here this place is hot and he's like man

you're always the paranoid one it's cool you're stripping right and he takes off the picture from the wall and we line up the biggest lines of coat you've ever seen right so probably good in that situation perfect yeah it was a good move so he ends up on the floor looking out the window seeing the same cars right I'm over the bathroom with this big old bag of coat ready to flush it down for like six hours. Finally, I can't take it. I'm out of cigarettes.

So I'm like, dude, I think we're tweaking. I'm going to go get a pack of cigarettes. I'm going to shove this shit down my pants. And if nothing happens, we're getting out of here. Because cops will never look in your pants. I mean, I figured it was a suicide mission either. I'd make it or I wouldn't. Of course, nothing happened.

So I pick him up He's like, get out of here We're right on the intersection of I-45 and 610 If you're familiar with Houston So I jump I'm like man I need the $5 I left for the key deposit We need that to get home

And he's like no no So I stop in and I get my $5 as I'm walking out There's a car that we'd seen circling And the guy gets out and points at me It's like there they are And I'm like oh shit I jump in the car don't we haul ass and who were they what what man i we don't know i think they were like

managers or like pimps or dealers because this hotel was in the hood so you know it was action goes or it was a hooker hotel or whatever crack hotel so we i mean we thought out of place yeah we didn't look look right but um as we're driving up i 45 we keep seeing these same cars that we thought we're circling the hotel and then they'd pass us and then they'd pulled over on the service road so we're like freaking out and i'm asking him if we want to keep going up to oklahoma and commit a federal crime or get busted in texas and goes to texas time and we're right by huntsville which is the the headquarters for the texas prison system there's all kinds of prisons right from the highway and he's got this towel we got this towel in the car

and he puts this big bag of coke in in the towel he's chucks it out the window it's our whole net worth it's like chunking 10 grand out the window of your car and as soon as he throws it out he throws it out of the sign we quit seeing all the cars and all they all disappear and so we call our partner up to you know when we tell them what happened he's like you dumb asses y'all are tweaking out but um you know many stories i've heard about guys flushing uh half a key down a fucking toilet like i mean left this is like a common thing. I hear these guys, they get fucked up and then they get

freaked out and they see like the same car twice and in their mind, they're fucking, they're coming at the at the room with battering rams. Like in their mind the cops are pulling up and everything. It's really no, it's just some guy driving, drove by twice. It's actually two different cars. You know?

It's a strange thing. The mind on drugs, you know, don't get high on your own supply I guess. But we ended up calling our buddy and we sober up by the time we get to Dallas and We pull up to the sign and wrap up like a little baby. Yeah. Oh, I thought you was gone.

No, I was waiting for cops to be waiting on us or nothing. But, I mean, we had a lot of scares like that, you know, and I had little omens like a kid, Danny's little brother, David, sat down with me one day at our apartment. And he urged me. He's like, dude, these dudes are hot. They don't hide what they're doing. the cops know what they're doing you don't belong here you need to leave like now you know and he sat down for like two hours trying to trying to convince me he said just get out of here you can go stay with my house with my mom if you want you know and right that meant a lot to me

because uh he passed away not too long after that so so respect to uh david or whatever but i didn't listen but the the lady that um went down to it with us to score the the mistress lady the diva lady. Right. She, she knew people and she told me to get the heck away from these guys because, you know, they're on the radar, cops know what they're doing, blah, blah, blah. So, and we even had a guy that was staying in an apartment and tell us that one night a guy

in a suit was rolling around the parking lot, writing down license plate numbers, and he even came up to our apartment, was looking inside. So I have no idea what that was all about. But anyway, you know, it's a lot of work driving to Houston once or twice a week and running an organization and doing all that. One of the cool things about it is when counting the money, when you're, you know, the whole floor is covered in 20s, hundreds or whatever. One night, Jake tells me he's going to wipe his ass with a $100 bill because he always wanted to do that. and he did and flushed it down the toilet stupid but uh we we met this guy we it was the night of the spice mike tyson spinks fight in 1989 we got a room a hundred dollar room at to marriott

or something like that just to watch the fight on the pay-per-view and we're tripping on acid as usual and jake tells me this guy's coming over to make a deal and this guy always bought like two ounces of coat he's like this guy's kind of serious he's big old boy all steroided out you know he kind of creeps me out a little bit but so anyway the guy came over and i met him and you know he was real serious all about business and he was intimidating because he's so big but he turned out to be a really good dude and uh i'll call him steve for the for the purpose of this show so you know he was buying buying a couple ounces for some people that own a nightclub or something like that so after that

we decided to send down a minion to go down because we were tired of doing all the legwork and the minion claims he got ripped off of all the money. So all that money that we had gone. Right. You know, we gave up our apartment. We had to move back in with Jake's dad, you know, his mom and dad had divorced. But the guy, Steve, turned out to be a good guy. He had a body shop and he was giving us work.

trying to just give us back on our feet and he told us these guys that he knew wanted us to go down to Houston and buy half a kilo of cocaine with counterfeit 20s they'd printed up a bunch of counterfeit 20s and would you do that I mean no I it's it's just that the counterfeit money in and you know like the drug industry or um that happens like I wrote a book about a guy that same thing he he somebody went to buy pills from him or something and he bought pills and the guy gave him the money and was trying to get out of the car he's like whoa whoa wait a minute he was counting the money he said I counted the money and he said the money was there he said but it felt weird like he's like you know he said you don't realize that you can feel it you know and he said so I counted it and if you don't use if you don't have the right paper like it doesn't feel right like that's obviously the paper is a big thing but he was kind of and he was like something's wrong he turned on the light he's looking at he's like but it looks good but I could feel like something was off on the money the guy took guy immediately jumped out of the car

and ran and so he gets out and runs after him and they're like and the only reason he chased after him is that the guy had a bottle of oxies with his name on it he's like so I don't give a shit about the money I don't care about the pills I care that he's got my prescription bottle with my name on it. He's like, and that could come back to me. He's like, he's buying a few, he's buying $400 worth of fucking pills. He's like, I don't give a shit because he was making him up so much money doing doctor shopping. He just didn't want it all. Right. He's like, I just don't want my fucking, my bottle out there. So that's why he chases him all the way down in alley. They get into a fight. He's like, finally he gets the bottle back. And anyway, but same thing. That and then

Jeff Turner, same thing. I've met guys in prison who would like print it up and they'd mix it in with real money. But yeah, eventually somebody, because it does happen a lot people they figure it out this was straight up i mean he he was dealing with columbians you know and it it's not like the movies it's a house right and it's a family but they've got people watching out and these counterfeit 20s were the secret service called them very low quality and right but the texture of them didn't feel right okay they say you're supposed to put them in a dryer and put stuff in there that kind of rough them i don't know there's a movie called to live dying L.A. a long time ago.

Of course. I told Jeff Turner about that. Great movie. That is the premiere, right? Like that is the top counterfeiting movie out there. What's the guy's name who plays a counterfeiter? Guy, you know, real skinny. William Defoe. I love him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a great movie.

That's one of those few movies I've ever watched where at the end of the movie, I didn't see it coming. You know, it's called To Live and Die in L.A. Great movie. Like, you watch the whole movie and then the ending when it comes out at the ending hits you're just like i'm not i'm not gonna say it but i mean you're just like whoa see i don't i don't remember the indian it's been so long so i was shocked i remember the song it's a great oh it's a great movie and they have a great counterfeiting scene like the opening yeah yeah yeah of that movie where he's actually making

the the counterfeit money is phenomenal he's an artist I find that most stories aren't like the movies where everything is precise and military precision. It's idiots that fall into things, you know? That's our story.

It's like the guy, we interviewed a guy, a detective who did like 20-something years in the auto theft for auto theft as a detective. And, you know, to me, all the movies I've ever seen on auto theft.

Going in 60 seconds. Yeah, they almost seem like it's sexy. The truth is, usually just junkies breaking into cars and stealing them and you know and it's haphazard and they get caught and they're in and out of jail and it's just you know like there's no like true professionals

that have it down pat to me that's real life versus the deluge yeah but um so these guys I wasn't dealing with the guy but chase like no fucking way dude I'm not I mean this isn't slipping a few

20s into a lot of real this is all yeah he's like no i'm not going to do that and i feel like ripping off columbians although i'm sure they're good people it doesn't sound like a good idea no seems like it can go bad yeah i've heard about them cutting your tongue out and yeah doing other thing crazy things but um right on right on so but they gave this in-between guy this guy steve 10 000 for us to kind of look at give him some paper yeah and they told him whatever you just look this is for looking you know to see if y'all want to do this deal don't be spending it they told them not to even touch it of course bad ass jake he's taking it and

taking girls out to movies and spending it just exactly what they told them not to do right so at this time it's getting to be my son i miss summer the fall classes because i'm still stuck here i'm wanting to get my money back right scared to tell my dad that i'd done right but um i'd crash my car so the only transportation we had was his motorcycle is crotch rocket so i'm riding around bitch on that and it's getting cold but um we're riding on that and he gets pulled over by beths in the oklahoma police and they arrest him for a ticket a warrant a bench warrant so I'm freaking out, because I know he's got all this money on him. So I get the bike back to Steve, and Steve's like, oh, shit, you know,

and we're about to go to the police station, and we see him, Jake strolling down the road. Like, he's like, they can't hold me down, you know. We're like, what happened? And he's like, well, you know, when they bust you, they take all your possessions, and they've seen all this money, and the jailer dude's like, son, you got enough money to bomb. bond yourself out so this dumb ass bonded himself out with counterfeit money so you know we're not that's not going to catch that with you real quick so now you're just waiting for the so you just bonded he just bonded out

on a minor charge on the traffic warrant yeah and got himself a major charge the next day the secret service leaves a card on on at his house and it says you need to contact me immediately and bring your friend Kyle, I guess they knew what I was with them. How'd you feel when you saw your name? How did he shoot up through your body? Oh my God. Yeah, but I knew I hadn't, you know, I hadn't done anything. Jake does what he does best.

I'm just driving the car. Yeah. But Jake, I mean, of all the stuff we did, I mean, if they either caught with drugs, that's more. That's bigger than counterfeiting by a long shot, I think. But anyway, Jake's like, okay, he does what he does best. You know, he starts scam and make it up a story. He's like, okay, I'm going to say that I was at a bar and a guy came to me and asked me for change.

And he's like, you're going to verify that. And I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. You're not lying to a FBI agent. They know. Let's keep adding on to this problem. And he asked me for change. I had a he had a I had a million dollar bill and he and he gave me change using these counterfeit hundreds the fuck who's making change for giving you $10,000 in counterfeit money? What kind of change was he making?

For what? What bill? I had a $10,000 bill like what am I a bank? I don't think they would have bought it. No, I don't think they would have bought anything across the I don't think he was making change for a fucking 20 they were going to buy it. So right now, like if you were playing a, if we were writing a movie script or we were playing a virtually virtual reality video game. And me, I had three options, you know, I could either. The first option would be probably go home and get away from the scene and not have any issues.

Right. The second option would be lie to the secret service for my friend. Or the third option would be the option that we picked, which would we all got together. we didn't know what to do. And at one point, we were thinking about one of us go to like Kansas City and another go to another town and just start spending buying dollar things or whatever. I got the idea for, I don't know why, but I said, let's go down to six flags, amusement park in Dallas.

They'll never know what counterfeit money is. The Secret Service doesn't give their employees a course on how to pick it up, which we found out they did. And it's fenced in. I mean and they don't have their own internal security I did I mean you know that show the world's stupidest criminals and we watch it and in hindsight you know you can laugh at people but when you get caught up and you're not thinking straight you know that's all I can say right uh sorry but um so we all not only does that Steve decide to go with us he gets his business partner which They own a body shop, this guy named Roger, and Steve's wife decides to go home with us. And they have three kids.

And this mission that's doomed to fail from the start. I mean, even if we got away with it, they already had these serial numbers. And, you know, it was to the cops, it had to be comical. But so we drive all, drive to Six Flags, this awesome crew of criminals. which six flags one in arlington texas dallas area so i guess subconsciously i was getting closer to home

one way or the other but um um so we get a whole we get a hotel room that night and next morning off we go and i'm the most proactive one there i mean we all had two thousand dollars to spend there's five of us as ten grand but i'm doing it man i'm buying shit you know so are you supposed to be trying to get change or just spend it i'm buying like a little keychain or a trade care okay so you give them a 20 for a two dollar item you get 18 dollars back right right and i'm doing it man i'm there to do it and there's a you know a basketball hoop game where you shoot to get stuffed animals well i did that one a couple times because i always played basketball i thought it's pretty good and those games were rigged by the way but um uh i didn't win the prize and that guy picked picked it up the counterfeit

yeah and uh we started noticing security following us around and this is another kind of funny thing is i was wearing my favorite shirt which kind of explains my attitude and what i was doing there at that time it was uh it was sid vicious the bassist the late basses for the punk rock band the sex pistols and on the front it said undermine their pompous authority reject their moral standards make anarchy and chaos your trademarks blah blah blah okay and it all on the big black in the back it read sid s ID so I can imagine the security people talking yeah it's sit you know I'm like wearing a jersey identifying myself but we got line for a roller coaster called the shockwave and you know you wait in line it's kind of like

you know you kind of forget what's going on but there was a guy in front of us as we're waiting in line for about an hour and he's kind of looking at it's funny and we get on and we ride the roller coaster and we pull up to the little boarding station and the guy that'd been sitting in front of us in line all the time was like undercover six flag security and he's got two local cops and they point us all out and they don't raise the bar and they take us out and frisk us and they're pulling out all this money and it was crazy and they handcuff us and take us through the jeering laughing crowd you know and all my friends were were had their heads down but I was like fuck y'all you know y'all did they get every single person yep even the kids no the kids

weren't with us at the time they just had kids which oh okay sorry about that yeah yeah i thought you guys were dragging around three little kids we could have got them to spend the money but daddy i don't want to spend the kind of that money so um i remember we're sitting in six flags security office and we're just giving each other shit grant you know what fuck and they took our information and there's a lady cop and i remember i guess whenever you run my license, it pops up who my dad was. And she's like, did you know your dad's in FBI? Yeah. I mean, I know he used to leave at nine in the morning. I don't know where it meant. But, and I remember that Jake had a bag of weed. And it's common now. It's, you know, but we called it

hydro. It's real expensive weed, hydroponic weed. But he had a bag of weed in his pants and he flushed it down the toilet in the office but finally we knew the guys in suits were coming and in a Secret Service and they take us and take us to Fort Worth downtown to the Secret Service office and it's late at night I'm in this dude's office and it felt exactly like that uncomfortable feeling I had with my dad was trying to make conversation I'm asking him about the football game and who won this game you know and it was stupid but uh he sat me down and like what's up son and at this time i had no experience dealing with police so i didn't know you're not supposed to to talk or whatever so did you tell him i'll tell you what's

the jake's fucking got a bunch of money he's been spending all over this place i don't know you guys need to talk to him i didn't you better you better hope they don't talk to me you better hope they talk to you before they talk to me because you got some fucking problems i'll tell you right i'm not going to fucking jail well counterfeit that's a pretty cool charge I've only met three people in federal prison who had counterfeiting charges, by the way. And that's, and I met a ton of people. Like, it's, I looked up, you know, they told me, someone was trying to scare me. And they said that the max penalty is 20 years.

And then I, they had me for seven. And they could stack them out. They're not going to stack them. The average penalty for counterfeiting is 18 months. I was just going to say, typically, you typically, typically what these guys will get if they just plead guilty is like, You're saying 18 months is like probably the average that people do, but it's like three years. Right. I literally knew a guy who'd been for counterfeiting.

I met him on his third bid. And he got seven years. And they caught him with a couple hundred thousand dollars. Because he knew. Yeah. And he used to say, if you're going to get out and commit another crime, make it counterfeiting. He said it's got the best, yeah, for the amount of money you can make in it. The risk reward.

The risk reward is huge. And this guy had been in, he would get out. He's like, I'll just, I just fucking do it. I'll do it for hundreds of thousand dollars. When I get caught, I plead guilty. They drop it down to one count. You get one count plus your criminal history. He started off the first time he got like three years, kind of like probation.

Uh-huh. Then he got like six years. So you're only doing 85% of that. Then he ended up with, I think, eight or nine years. He did get eight or nine years the second time, like the third time. eight or nine years but still he was like listen for the amount of fucking money he is especially if you know you're going to it's going to catch up with you yeah you put away money he was this worth it i was like god this fucking guy he's nuts that's 15 year i mean i hope he got a lot of stuff

with that there's you know there are certain and you know you've i'm sure you've met these guys there's some guys they're just you know they're just not gonna you know you call them you know can't get right right and like they're just not going to they're going to be criminals their entire life they're going to die a criminal they're they've accepted it this is what they want to do with their life that's it like you know it's a self-image thing it's yeah all the energy they spend on figuring out how to circumvent the law they could have yeah but this guy apparently he had listen he had tons of commissary had plenty of money out there had like they didn't get him like he knew the whole time he was doing it I'm

When I get caught, you know, everything's in my mom's name, this person's name, that person's like he was setting it up to go to fucking jail the whole time. That's what I was wondering. Yeah, you know, he knew. He knew. And he was like, when I was like, what are you doing when you get out? He said, what am I going to do when I get out? I'm like, what you mean?

What do you know what I do? Wow. Same thing I do. I'm going to do what I do. And I was just like, fuck, are you nuts? He was like in his late 30s, too. I was like, you're fucking getting getting up there. I'm in my fucking 30s.

I'm getting out in a couple of years. He said, I got another bit in me. I was like, oh my God. He was actually, unfortunately, he was actually a pretty, really a cool guy. Not because it was just a cool guy, you know. Gotcha. It's upsetting too, because, you know, he's like, he doesn't need any money on his books or anything. No, no, that's, that's, you know, he was just one of those guys.

Like, if I had thought I was going to get caught and put away money the whole time, but I was just arrogant enough to think they're not going to catch me i'm too sharp i'm too smart for him so i didn't put any money away so i didn't think about all i was like this guy was smart smart enough to know oh no they'll catch eventually i was like jesus like he was bright um my uncle told me that similar the one of the best crimes risk reward is being a bookie i mean i don't know how many bookies you're right across and and i don't think i ever but i wouldn't even know what that charge would be what would that charge be i don't know i don't know i think it's probably mostly like a state charge or something right or maybe tax evasion or something like that but i've heard

that having like a blackjack table you get if they caught you with a blackjack table that's a federal charge or i don't know but um uh so i'm sitting in this guys office and he writes out a statement basically saying yeah i knowingly and willingly passed and possessed fake bogus u.s notes and i signed it right and um i did i throw my friend under the bus at towards the year i didn't offer it they they came to me and they said did your buddy know that money did he bought it i was like yeah did he i mean how you know but does a pope wear funny hat but um um so then it's like three in the morning and they're taking us to some federal lockup and the sheriff's in johnson county texas and i never been to jail before i didn't know

what was going on so when they pull us in the jail and they give us our jumpsuit things or whatever and but no one searched us or anything like i mean we jake could have kept that weed on them and you know I could have brought a gun in there for all I don't know, but I remember walking back through that quarter. And we used to have a saying that Danny used to say because, you know, he'd been to jail before they talk about sweet lady with the big 20s, going to be your celly, you know, like, whatever. And I was like, man, what's going to happen? They walked me and Jake together. I'm like, oh, that's cool. He'll be here.

But they put him in one pod and me and the other. And as soon as I walked in, I heard a guy from the back, you know, say, all right, another white guy, you know. It turns out me and him were the only white guy's in there, but it wasn't bad at all, you know. Nothing happened. I remember Jake got a homie because you could see the windows. There was glass right there, and he's banging on the window.

He's like, it's Sunday, me in church. And so we signed up for church and we went, you know. And I have to say that the Protestant churches, the dry Protestant churches I've always intended this, had a lot more spirit in it, man. The guys were really into it and they were praying, you know. They had a lot to pray for, I guess. But, you know, we were talking about they brought in Steve and Roger, but they came in and got Steve like early morning because he was cooperating.

You know, and they flew him back to Oklahoma City. They went to a shop and set up all the cameras and had agents there. And he called the people and said, hey, we got rid of that money. He's the one who knew the people. Right. He's the one that brought them in. So he was really the connection to them, not you guys. Right.

You couldn't go and say, I'll call the guy. I'll do this. No. No, you didn't know anything. I mean, I benefited from someone cooperating, but I don't, but whatever. Right. I mean, I don't. It doesn't.

So he set the, so they came in, put cameras throughout his shop. And yeah, they got the guy. And the guy was the printer. And they caught $3.4 million in 20s and the plates. And it was the front page of the paper, you know. And it's quite different from when I used to look at my high school basketball, and it put scores and see my name in the paper. But, um, uh,

I remember my mom and dad came to visit me, and that wasn't fun, you know. My dad was cool, but my mom was crying. I'm sure your dad knew this was coming. Your dad probably was like, I don't think he knew this much. Felt like I was going to be visiting you in jail at some point. You know what? My basketball coach, the last words he said to me was, be careful your phones might be tapped.

So that was kind of like an Ids of March thing. man I never I don't know but you didn't think you were eventually gonna end up getting arrested no I mean not really I yeah how do you know you know I know I understand I mean I got good grades in school and was in college you're you're transporting drugs up between the states and throwing shit out and think cops are falling you know it's going bad it's not going good um so so what happened like what did you end up did you end up did you get bonded out i mean did you oh so they they take us to this funny story they take us to the match to the fort worth federal courthouse right i had my

sid vicious shirt on it said undermine their pompuses blah blah blah and i think one of the jailers said you don't want to be wearing that shirt and um so i i borrowed a shirt from roger and it was a tequila a worm with the tequila tequila bottle of worm or something like that but um the the funny thing about that is you know they took us into that holding cell and it reminded me of these old cells that when i used to go visit my dad in ohio you know them them official looking federal courthouse with granite type walls or floors and um but they they called me in to sit down with the clerk and she's asking me all these questions i guess it's a uh uh pre-trial report or something like that a bond report and she's asking me well what who you will be living with what are the occupations

of who you'll be living with and i tell them about my dad you know what he does and she's like wow i don't hear that too often you know but then jake goes in there and does the same and jake tells me that as he's sitting in his clerk's office the magistrate leans his head into the the door and says um what do you think stacey what are our counterfeiter's going to be flight risk and she's like well this one here his father runs all the prisons in oklahoma and his buddy in the cell his dad's an FBI agent so i think we're pretty safe with these two but um i remember the cell my dad called me into one of them rooms like where you talk to your lawyer yeah and that's when he's letting me how like what the what were you doing blah blah you know i'm like sorry whatever

we're getting defensive but um i think he told them to leave me in that room because you couldn't you can't open the door yeah and that's when i felt the whole thing of being locked up kicked me and i'm like oh yeah it's gonna be a lot of locked doors in the future yeah it's but when the whole thing matt is i was more worried about facing my dad didn't yeah that's i mean i don't know if that's respect or fear or you know or a combination of but um and i remember in the cell there was this old looking white convict dude um and then there was his Nigerian dude they arrested him for being at the airport and he had like $10,000 cash he was taken out of the country and i didn't know that was a crime you know but i found that it was

but jake's rapping easy e lyrics loud so everyone could hear and i don't know that's thought that was surreal but they pull us into the courtroom and um the magistrate let's uh let's all out on a PR bond. Okay. And I'm sure that has to do with the cooperation, blah, blah, blah. But the only funny thing about all that was the guy, Roger, was this good old Oklahoma boy. And he has a, what do they call it now politically correct? He has a speech impediment.

Right. So the magistrate doing us right, ask us if we have any questions. And this guy, Roger raises his hand. and says, Your Honor, if I go to prison, can I get my teeth fixed? And I'm just like, why are you saying that? Anyway, we got out. And that's when my dad's taking me back home, where I should have gone before all this happened and say goodbye to my counterfeiting crew.

Yeah. And, um, I was, I was, uh, they put me on pre, I had to report to a pretrial officer and whatever. That was final. Jake had a, a girl pretrial officer. And Jake was like, man, I think she likes me. I'm going to get in her pants. And, uh, anyway, we had, we were waiting, playing the waiting game. I remember too, my dad had a lawyer friend. They played college football. with and he was a personal injury lawyer. But then the very next day when I got out, they had set up a meeting with these, these crime lawyers, you know, these high price defense lawyers. And we all met at a Denny's. And on the way there, I was riding with the lawyer guy,

my dad's friend. And he had the national news on back when the AM stations would run the loops. And our case was on there. I was like, that's kind of, that's rare. I was sure your dad was like, hey! can you I mean I imagine what he was embarrassed you know he tells me you know he got a call in the middle of the night from his supervisor you know but um um so these we're sitting at a dineas my dad's there

and the lawyer friend these two criminal defense self-important guys and they're wanting to hear this big crime caper and i'm not going to say nothing with my dad sitting right there and i mean i came out as a adult you know which probably isn't that hard for me they didn't want any part of this case they're like man this ain't yeah this is this is low ball he's not even really looking at it anytime so um my my um my um my dad's body ended up handling and he charged me like 500 bucks i had to pay restitution nothing right for a criminal for a criminal fucking defense uh for a federal case that's yeah that um so um but we had to wait you know it's all up to the prosecutor what what what we had i think i waited like

six months or a year and probably it's about six months and he called us in there and he said there was four of us one of us was not included in on this deal and you can guess which one it was but uh you know he led us off on something called a pretrial diversion where you agree to stay out of trouble for a year right and it's i mean not you don't even have to put it on applications or anything like that so that's what happened to me um after that i've get a job at little caesar's pizza and i'm riding my BMX bike to community college trying to do the right thing but my buddy jake he's back in the mix you know and uh he's starting to to get back in the drug game and i heard a story through the great vine about how he had fronted some

drugs to this girl and this girl wasn't paying him back and she he was going to leave town so he arranged for this girl to be at another friend's house he was he was having a relationship with his girl's friend and he was going to robber he had recruited this guy to robber so they called the girl over to the apartment complex one night jake and the robber are waiting around the corner the guy's not even supposed to have a gun so the guy goes around robs her he has a gun she tries to fight fight back is jake with her no jake's their height you know jake's not there there she is and she went out she went out with fighting you know she didn't she didn't punked out and he the robber guy hit her over the head and the gun went off and killed her

and her name was Cheryl respect to her family i i didn't know her but um so jake gets there's about four or five people involved in this conspiracy and he's he's like has none of us ever talk oh that's not possible right we can get away you know and uh they buried they threw the gun in the lake or something like that he i heard that like people did talk like not those five people but people getting in trouble for other stuff the cops knew they just couldn't piece it all together they never made a case about it but jake just keeps on And I remember he was running a book, you know, he was, he was being a bookie for a while, which in Oklahoma, that lasts for football season and basketball season, but eventually he got

back into the drug game, right? And him and Aldo built it up and build it up and they grew. And he was getting, the cops knew there was a, there was a local vice cop, I think is what they called his drug cop on his tail and they'd busted in his room one time and he didn't have drugs on him but they took like 50 grand from him or something like that um the kid gave it our good friend danny's little brother ended up OD in on coke which which sucks you know respect to him and his family um but jake knew they were after him and it turned into this game of cops and robbers you know and at this point he was he was up to full keys he was flipping keys and it was kind

of like a multi-level marketing thing where he would come into town he knew he was being watched so he would he had he would he had six people under him six runners whatever you want to call it right so he would all give them six ounces they would give him back six grand and out so he would turn 20 into 36 and um the paper said that he would was doing several kilograms a month. And in Oklahoma City, it's a small, big city. Right. So when you get a name for yourself, you know, your reputation, people talk, you know.

Right. Cops, thieves, whatever, you know, they knew, they didn't hide their stuff at all. Everyone knew what they were doing. They high rolled it. They might as well have had tattoos that say, I'd sell drugs, you know. but um um along this time when jake knew that he was being watched he didn't keep the stuff on him but there was a spot we used to hang out out in the country and he would bury his stuff there and his six people that sold for him he would they would meet him there and that's where they

divvy up divvied up one day he had stashed a kilo there and it was gone so he knew it had to be one of those six people that was under him so he went to them all and he said look man i know you stole my stuff right and you need to rob a bank to pay me back and it worked the guy that did it's like you got me yeah and this guy was uh oh god this guy you know this guy what i mean i the way i say if you met this guy i mean i know you're a master manipulator you definitely but y'all i'm sure well you just talked about prison and there's got full of guy i can only imagine all the the jadai mine tricks going on in that place right everybody in there's a hustler yeah so it's running game yeah so so what um so so this guy his name is his name he's dead now i don't i'm not making up a fake name and he was

known to be the toughest guy on the north side of oklahoma city he was just kind of crazy i think was a little mentally off, but anyway, the way Jake tells me the story is that one day you know, he put the bug in the ear about robbing the paint. So one day, him and it's Addo's little brother, and I'm going to name

him Sancho in this story. It's not his real name, but Latino people might understand why I say this towards the end, but he says that him and Sancho, Jake and Sancho picked up Jamie, and they were just cruising, going somewhere, and

And they passed by this bank. And Jamie's like, pull over here. And he pulls out of like a president mask and a gun. And he says, I'm going to rob this bank to get you your money back. And y'all just turn around, wait for me. And so he jumps out of the car and Jake's like, no, we're leaving, you know. They didn't sign up for this shit. But I thought Jake told him the rival bank.

Told him to, but not with him as an accomplice. So, uh, I think he, when, when Jamie went into the bank that he said, you know, gives to tell her a note and she looks at him and as president, man, she starts laughing at him. But she did give him the money. And he told me this crazy story how they took off and Jamie ended up running to Jake's house, which was like a mile, mile and a half away. And, you know, he had the blue dye all over him. And so he's. And then for some reason, he got spooked and called his girlfriend to pick him up. And even though they'd kind of shut the grid down, they decided it'd be wise to drive right back by the scene of the crime. And that's where they caught this guy in his underwear with blue dye all over him. But I later read that he got caught pretty much right at the site. I don't know why Jake told me this story.

I think he was preparing a story just like the Secret Service. if he gets interviewed by the cops or something like that so he so i wasn't even there he he jumped i dropped them off but didn't realize what he was going to do and i left and had no part of it and i think he was practicing on me you know he uh right what is it pathological when you believe your own right we can't help it lie yeah you're constantly lying it's a great salesman right so salesmen are great at that right um so the guy got caught right he basically what really happened was he got ran out of the bank and got caught right and um because of the die patch i yeah that's what the paper said yeah Jake's story's better but right um um his day story is not that much

difference the only difference is the guy left and came back and i don't know why his his reason for making that story i mean it had to be something he was covering up but um i don't know i mean a crazy thing kind of an interlock to all this and how it all ties together is the guy that investigated that bank robbery was my dad's old partner in the FBI and Jake told me they sat down and he asked him what he knew about this robbery and it's just you know it sucks man that guy's crazy and he's like the guy's like well can we play your recording and this was a recording from Jamie's answering machine and it's Jake saying man when are you going to hit that bank like we talked about.

And Jake's like, he got a shit eating grin and he's like, I want to wear, you know. But it's just that agent, his son used to play on a Little League basketball team that we played on. I would think the agent, your name would have come up

on Jake's alias list. Like you would have been listed as somebody. I would think when he looked at it, he would be like, oh, wait a minute, this is my ex-partners. I think he, they, And I think, like I said, I think when we first started all this, I think it was circling around, you know, it's weird. Sometimes you think that a cop knows someone that has potential.

They let them kind of rise up and they'll say it's for gathering evidence, you know, to follow the chain. Right. But, you know, I think that, or you could say that the cops waiting to, it makes better headlines, it makes him look better. You know, you see both sides of it. think people knew i don't know how i don't know what happened where's shake now they's doing good really i mean but we don't we're not nearly as close as but um jaking it up catching a case he had a federal state local task force for him for drugs okay and i i mean i just imagine in this you know like in the movies where you see like crimes and they're pointing you know

they have and all there's all these think about the trajectory of crime i mean all by this kid you know you have murder you have the largest counterfeit bust a bank robbery and a big old drug case all pointed to this one guy but um he ended up getting busted you know i and uh they caught him when you know they busted in the hotel rooms how much time did to get he got 10 years we got about nine years but he cooperated he set up his guy i mean i i they were handing out big sentences you know he could have got 20 or 30 i'm sure if he wouldn't cooperate or took it to trial so he does his time and god i got all kinds of stories i'll tell you once he's self-surrendered okay and i heard you talking on the last show

about you wonder about people why they self-surrender why they don't just run make him catch him or whatever but jake ended up his dad got him a job at some small town sewer department so he he joked and said he went from high roll into shoveling shit basically but jake being jay he befriended this fell in love with this beautiful blonde young oklahoma country girl and um uh i think he never they were getting getting married but uh he talked about he got the call to surrender it was about a year we took a trip to Vegas which was kind of cool when you know your buddy's going away for 10 years but um so he's his last week in the freedom so him and his girl they're partying they're having a good time

and he bought her some lingerie and she and turned by him like a little you know one of them stripper purple banana hammock type thongs to wear whatever and so they did their thing he gets dropped off at county jake worked out he's all yoked up you know he can handle himself but he said in county you can't work out food sucks got scrawny but he got to call to report to his prison but you know when they have you stripped to your skivies the only skivis he had was this thong thing that his girlfriend bought him so i don't i don't know it's not the best way to go in but you know he's not he's a kind of guy that handles his business you know he doesn't I don't mean, but he has crazy prison stories.

So he did his time, did tell, he, I went to go visit him when he was in Fort Worth for the last little part, the Fort Worth Medical, which is where that Tiger Joe guy is now. But that's a trip to visit your friend and in prison. It was just kind of crazy. But he ended up, he ran a book. That was his hustle when he was in Fort Worth. And he ran up for this big, famous bookie at Oklahoma named Potey Poe-Dipo used to have an underground casino. you know, in the old money section of Oklahoma City called Nichols Hills for, for years.

Like the mayor football, everyone knew about it, but they finally busted it on it. But, you know, he would talk about sweating out games and these guys, you know, they have nothing but time. So they get real good at picking games and all of that stuff. But when he gets out, he gets into a business that a lot of cons get into. I'm not going to say it because he's still in that business. kind of a public business but killing it crushing it making six figures within within um two years he marries this beautiful girl that looks like audrey heber and they have a baby there um

he's driving alexis he just closed on a brand new house out in the suburbs well his friend sancho got arrested in Oklahoma City on minor drug charges like he stole his girlfriend's camera and ponded so he's gotta get high so bad he tells him all all the details about that murder so jay gets out of feds work his way has his whole life set and the same cop comes get him for this murder charge and they're they're charging them capital murder drug kingpin i mean the death penalty was on the table so this is a recent this was in between his prisons prison so he did 10 years in the fed he got out early 30s so he's mid to early 30s started over doing fine they come in with this other one what happened with that he they're gone away there you know he um well he got he hired lawyers

family hired lawyer he lied a lawyer whatever big good lawyers you know i can only imagine his family this is a second murder trial that they've been to with their sons it's right and they're all good people and you know i know they're all doing well but um he the whole thing was in his case the crux of it was whether or not he knew the guy had a gun and if they they would have proven that he would have got a gun he would have got life murder in the first degree but he got murder in the second degree but during his trial sancho the same guy that snitched him out which jake snitched on his drug case so right right yeah started having an affair Jake's wife, the mother of his child, they were walking in the court. Can you imagine?

So what happened? What did he end up getting? Murder in the second degree, he got 25 years. You started this off saying he was doing fine. Well, he, we're 54. He did 10 years. He did state, he did half of it. He did 12 and a half years. He's out. I was going to say, you're your definition of fine and my definition of So you're saying now he got out. So he got out on the second one. Now he's doing fine.

Making six figures. That's why. I mean, he's like you. He's a winner, you know. Okay. He's like, you know, he hands on his feet. And he did not mean for, these are decisions that he made very young. He didn't mean for that person to get killed.

Oh, no. I, I, you know, that always kills me is that like, and unfortunately, this is the way it worked. And people don't realize how it works. Like if I say, hey, look, man, you know, if I say Colby, bro, like that dude, this guy over here, you know, he knows me and he knows that I know he's got money in the house. So what, but he doesn't know you and don't know that I know you. So why don't you get one of your buddies and you guys break in that house and get the money? He's in there. He doesn't have a gun.

He doesn't have nothing, but he's in there alone. He's got $50,000 of cash. It's under the bed. And Colby goes, okay, cool, cool. Yeah, I'll do it. Colby grabs one of his buddies. They run up. They kick in the fucking door.

They happen to have a gun. They get into a fucking, they get into a fight. The guy resists, he ends up getting shot. I'm charged with murder. Because even though I'm like, even if I told Colby specifically, typically, typically, it depends on what state in the feds and in Florida is typically, typically what happens, even if I told Colby don't bring a gun. And Colby goes, bad, I don't worry, I got you. I'm not going to bring a gun. Colby brings a gun anyway.

Guess what? I'm going to get charged with murder. You hear about kids from the inner city that happened and now they're just long for the ride. And I think that a lot of that depends on the affluent. I mean, if you have enough money to hire a team versus a public defender and but yeah, because in both of these cases, other people could have been, you know. Yeah. So I know a guy who was driving a car for his brother. He was driving his car, the car.

His brother and a friend went to go rob a drug. dealer. Well, it wasn't a drug dealer. It was a DEA had set it all up. They didn't realize they run into a, you know, into a, whatever, a stash house to rob a drug dealer that was never there. There was never any money. As soon as they get out and they're running towards the, the house, the cops jump out of the house. They jump out of the house next to it. They pull cars pull up. The kid starts hearing shots being fired. He panics and hits the gas and takes off. They pin him in with the car he gets out of the car starts running that one of the one of the dea agent shoots him doesn't even have a gun shoots him blows his leg off at the knee boom hits

the ground his brother died the other guy died he lost his leg he got 30 years he was charged with murder because he was driving the vehicle and his brother got killed so they basically charged him I think they just charged him with his brother's murder I don't think the other guy got murder I think he survived so they charged him with murder because there was a death during a robbery that you were a part of

even though it's like yeah but my brother didn't kill anybody they killed my brother doesn't matter who died on either side you got charged with it and he lost his leg he was like in his two was like 19 or 20 years old it's so scary it's like what I was just driving the car right right and if you

met the guy he was just this you know do-de-do not you know not not he wasn't like he was simpleton or anything but he was he was just a nice kid he was a nice black thin black kid wheeling himself

around in a wheelchair like he was sitting on the couch one day when his brother came in and said bro I need to drive the car I need to drive the car he was he never been in trouble he was like fuck you know and his brother's like come on man it's nothing drive the car the guy nobody's even in the house we're going to run up to the door rob the place leave. It's not a big deal. He was like, he's like, so I did it. That's it. It's over.

30 years. That sucks, Brian. On a violent crime, you're going to do 85% of your time in the Fed, in a wheelchair. The equity under the law thing, and I mean, there is none in my opinion, but. It's a harsh system, bro. It's harsh. The funny thing is the first time, it's nonviolent, the first time. It's typically not that harsh. But the second time, it's brutal. And if it's violent, it's brutal, pretty much typically brutal the first time. So, but hey, you know, I nobody's asking my opinion. Um, so what's going on? What are you doing? What are you doing now? Man, I wrote a, I wrote a very rough draft about all this. I had a couple years off. I've been a

over the road truck driver for 15 years. So salute to all your. drivers out there. It's hard work. Yeah, I was going to say I have a buddy who does it, Mike Hudson. Every time I talk to him, he gripes and screams and bitches and moans about it. It's hard. Yeah. I mean, I was a road where I was a trainer, so I would work 330 days out of the year and I had to train students that you don't know who you're getting, but I mean, I ran, ran coast to coast. And then I bought my own truck and ran the oil fields, which I got pulled over in South Texas a few months ago four times in 12 days on random inspections because the board the governor's protecting our borders somehow by pulling over sand trucks and and get inspecting us

but the the trooper told us we know you guys run 24 hours in in the oil fields it's it's crazy man and but that's what I've been I mean I worked my whole life had a couple X Y's you know, no. Oh my God. It's truck driving. That's this horrible, bro. Like, Mike Hudson does it and Mike's like, you couldn't do it.

You couldn't do it. You remember Mike? Mike's so I'm like, oh, it seems hard. Mike, it's too hard for you. You couldn't do it. Oh, God, Mike. He's a tough guy. I loved it.

For a scammer, because you're always plotting, you're trying. And when we had paper log books, I mean, people wouldn't understand. but you're just constantly, how can I manipulate this time, time, time? And as a trainer, I work for a company that had a lot of freight. So the trainers kind of, they can, we can run more time. So you become the elite. And the little solo drivers, here's Matt driving, he's got a good load.

But there's a trainer, a shark coming, and I try to get your load because I can take it farther. And I don't know, it's, it's hard work, but I liked it. but when things are going on right this is dangerous like people get hurt all the time guys get into a car like you get to a car accident in a fucking truck like it's you you could be killed like it's imagine you have to trust this guy that you've never met just driving your truck out of driving school yeah it's i was a traitor for seven years i met all kinds of crazy some mostly cool guys just to hear stories from all other country a few the mentally ill ones there you got to stay live with them it's like

like having a cellie. I think, you know, it's smaller than a prison cell. But I met some cool cats, met a guy from D.C. that did time. I don't know if you've ever heard of Lorton prison. It was, you know, D.C. doesn't have a jail. It's not a state. Yeah. It's all federal. They all, before that, they had a prison called Lorton. It was in Virginia. And he called it the most corrupt prison in America. But this guy was like an inner city, King. pen and he had so many stories, you know, and the happiest guy I've ever met, you know, he never got mad or anything,

but it was, it was cool. That's what I've been doing. I had, I literally jumped off a truck. I just got fed up with it, so I had a couple years off, and my mom's getting older,

so I've been helping with her, take care. I've done a lot of cooking and finding TV shows for my mom because she can't figure out the streaming stuff. Right. A lot of chick flicks. and working stuff out in my head. Like writing the story and writing your life story,

I think you mentioned you did that when you were. It's very therapeutic. It's very cathartic. You look back at things and see them in a different light, I hope. So I'm in a good place, I guess, as good as I've ever been. I was nervous on this thing. But I try. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for showing. any interest at all and you can you think of anything we didn't cover we're good you're like i could talk a lot of stuff but you said to keep it on topic hey i appreciate you guys watching if you like the video do me a favor share the video because that really does help with the algorithm even more so than leaving a comment so share the video with your friends and family do me a favor and uh subscribe to the channel hit the bell, you know, leave me a comment. We're going to leave any links that Kyle has in the description box. And I really do appreciate you guys watching. Thank you very much. See ya.

No, I was born in Miami, grew up in Clearwater, Tampa area. I moved to Knoxville, Tennessee, probably about eight years ago. Okay. And that's where I caught my case was in Knoxville. all right um so so what so we're so you weren't i mean mom dad like um you know i had a good childhood for the most part kind of got into like drugs and street life at a younger age you know um but i'd say when i was about 25 i met my ex-wife um and you know kind of went straight for a while right well i mean so you graduated high school you were what were you doing after high school oh uh just i mean you said when you went you went said when straight makes it seem like you were doing something selling drugs oh okay that was

in in high school or after high school or in high school after high school um you know started selling weed not really on any like big scale right then the pills kind of kind of hit um tampa area right oxies yeah um and you know i was selling lots of oxies and developed a habit to say at least uh right you know but i was counterfeiting a little bit when i was younger um kind of toyed with it and never on not on like a huge scale but you know i couldn't get the bills perfect but i was selling them and making a little bit of money and then did that for like a year and then stopped right when you say younger how how young like 19 20 right what were you using then just basic equipment over the counter yeah yeah i mean even even recently

i was using you know i didn't have like printing presses and you know what i mean it's all digital nowadays like the capability of uh digital printers has like advanced extremely in the past 10 years um and that's what the secret service was like wondering uh how i got the bills to look so good with just regular you know two hundred three hundred dollar printers but i'm a graphic designer so a lot of it has to do with like breaking the images down and sharpening them right on the digital file well so so you were basically we're just kind of like selling drugs that make ends meet and you'd counterfeit a little bit but you said then you met your your wife and stopped or yeah i met uh my wife um so we decided to move to knoxville um because my parents moved to

moved up in that area her mom lived up in north georgia so we were just kind of getting out of florida um and i you know got a job in the sign business was doing doing good you know i mean i still had a drug habit but i've always been functioning you know what i mean right kept the job and a house and everything you know i've got kids so um but at this sign company i ended up wrecking a truck so i had a newborn baby it was like you know those late nights tired. I got called into work. I worked like 80 hours that week with a newborn baby at home, like not sleeping. So I was doing a service call in a bucket truck and wrecked the truck because I fell asleep at the wheel. So basically that, like they let me go at that job because of that

or whatever reason. And this was like two months before our lease was up in our house too. So I lost my job didn't have a lot of money saved so that's kind of what put me back into the counterfeiting thing i was like well i've got two months to figure out a new house a new house and you know a way to make money so i kind of just said fuck it let's go back to to this and do it on a larger scale um so i within those two months before my lease was up i basically just stayed at home on the computer 10, 12 hours a day, like, you know, making these digital images is sharp and clean. So, like, to prevent counterfeiting, you can't scan a picture of a bill or print one because the printer, like, recognizes that image and it just, it'll print like just a little bit of it

and then just stop. Really? Yeah. So you, instead of scanning the pictures, I'd just take a photo and then upload that photo which kind of got around that security measure that the printers have and then like with graphic design I would take that image and break it down to like three or four different images so so it would print it so the printer wouldn't recognize the bill because you're taking the background color and having one image that's just the background color of the bill and then another image with the

serial numbers and treasury seal and then another image with all the black work and you just run the paper threw over and over again. I printed three prints for the front of the bill and two prints for the back of the bill. And then I printed the strip in the watermark on the back of the back. So then I could then glue the two pieces together and the strip and watermark would be embedded in them. How are you getting this strip? I just printed it. So I was using, and the Secret Service said that this was like a large key to my success was.

I was using Bible paper to print the bills on. How did how did you figure out how to use Bible paper? Trial and error. Lots of, so like I've read the art of making money. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, he was sandwiching to. What's his name, Art Williams?

Williams, yeah, yeah. I knew I had a buddy who was locked up with him. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He said when he, after, when the book came out, he said art was walking around passing out. He was, he said, man, He would tell him everybody about the book, and he was, yeah.

It was a good book. It was a good book. I read it in prison. Yeah, that's what originally gave me the idea to start counterfeit when I was like 19. I was reading that book. But I knew he sandwiched two pieces together. I think he was using like telephone book paper or newsprint or some kind of other thing. I know he had, through trial, and he had got, eventually I knew he was ordering the paper.

Yeah. And he couldn't, he couldn't order the exact size paper that the, that the, that they were using for bills. So he figured, okay, fuck it, I'll, I'll order half the size and just glue them together. And that'll give me the ability to, inside of it to be able to glue the, also glue the, um. See, I think a large portion of his deal was he was trying to find paper that would mark yellow with the counterfeit pen. See, I found kind of a way around that. So like the Bible paper was thin enough. to sandwich two sheets together and opaque enough to where you couldn't see the strip and watermark

through it unless you held it up to the light. So it was, and for some reason, certain kinds of Bible paper aren't like bleached. So if you put it in a black light, it glows that dull purple, just like real money. Right. As opposed to like all other papers glow that bright blue, like fluorescent color. Um, so basically Bible paper was like perfect. I mean, it, it was opaque. It was thin. it glowed right in a black light and it didn't mark with the pen though so I would spray it with a matte lacquer spray to create a barrier

because counterfeit pens are iodine-based ink so like the iodine in the ink reacts with the starch in the paper so by spraying it with lacquer you create a barrier so there's no chemical reaction between the iodine pen and the paper so and that helped like it seems like every security feature

I'd be solved multiple issues You know what I mean? Which was just, they exponentially got better every time I. So like the lacquer spray not only helped with the counterfeit pen, but it also gave it that crisp texture, like real thin. You know, if you spray it with lacquer and just take an iron to it real quick. Yeah, it becomes crispy. And then hold and spray another coat of lacquer from a distance.

It would feel like sandpaper. And then you take it and just go on the edge of a table and it crisped up. And it knocked off that gritty sandpaper feel. gave it that texture. People would scratch the feel of texture and the ink and stuff. So it felt like paper. I mean, felt like money,

looked like money. It marked. It beat the black light. And you could see through it just like normal money. So it was just basically flawless. I mean, from the, you bought paperwork from the secret service in your discovery and stuff.

So how long did it take you to figure all that out, though? Like so within the two months that, like my lease was up i got fired i had two months to figure stuff out so within those two months i uh i don't remember exactly how the bible paper came apart it was just kind of trial and error i was looking for thin paper and i basically just one day felt it and was like oh this is thin i tried it and it worked great so um you know within those two months i edited the images i broke them down zoomed in got rid of all the gray fuzzy you know like sharpened the images Because it was a photo.

Yeah. Which, I mean, high-resolution cameras take pretty good photos already. But to, so, like, each print has to be color-matched. If you just print, like, the picture of $100 bill, the colors will be off. Because in order to get the green on the treasury seal and serial numbers, correct, the background color will be off. Right. And vice versa.

Yeah, cool, because it's printed on paper that's slightly colored and has fibers and all the other stuff, right? Yeah, you're trying, like the paper, I believe they used, like, just dyed paper, but I'm printing the background color. So you've got to match that to money, you know what I mean? Right. So, you know, in those two months, I, after, it took, well, it took more than two months. I started kind of doing it after two months and making money. A buddy of mine that worked at the sign company with me, like, so one of my buddies called me and was like, Because like I said, I had a drug problem at the time, you know, on top of being broke and no job and having a, you know, at least a hundred, $200 a day heroin habit for kids, you know. But a buddy of mine called me and was like, you know, if you need any dope call this dude, I'm not going to say the name.

Right. A buddy of mine at the sign company, I knew he sold a little bit of weed and I didn't know, you know, the extent or anything because we were just working together. so he got fired from the sign company i got fired so i called him one day and went over to his house to get some some stuff and uh you know he was way bigger of a drug dealer than i thought you know what i mean like he was dealing in multiple uh you know like meth heroin coke weed right all sorts he's a professional yeah so and i ran it by him i was like you know i'm starting to to print some money again, you know what I mean? Maybe you could use it to re-up in Atlanta because at this point I was nervous about spending on myself. I always wanted to just sell them to people. Right.

You didn't want to go into a store hand somebody and then they go, oh, hold on a second. The security guard shows up and arrest you. The bill's got progressively better. So like each bill, I'm, I'm handmaking. So it's like you're cutting them out, you're spraying it, you're squeaging and gluing and then using uh i was using holographic green eye shadow to paint on the color shifting 100 right um so like the more you do it the more practice you get in the better they look so in the beginning i i wasn't i knew they looked good they were passable but like i was still nervous about going into stores and shopping you know what i mean so i started giving this guy this drug dealer bills to go to Atlanta and uh you know buy drugs so he started doing that

and eventually like this only lasted probably three or four months but he got his house got rated so so what what is so if you're giving him 10,000 or 5,000 I don't know how much you're giving him 10,000 to buy the drugs if you're giving him 10,000 like what percentage of actual money are you getting in return for that 20% usually okay so you get it was circummed he was a friend of mine so if he if he was five grand short on re-upping I may just give it to him and he you know but then another time he'd give him 10 he'd give me you know 2,500 or whatever it's usually about 20 cents on the dollar 25 cents but that only lasted a few months and I was kind of like perfecting the bills as I was working

with him I was giving him a lot of fake 20s I was doing 20s too at that time because those the 20s I wasn't putting strips in or anything those I was just printing on regular paper with no strips or watermark because he was just mixing it in with large sums of money to re-up. The hundreds, obviously, people tend to scrutinize more and those need security features all in the beat. But he got arrested.

His house got raided. And one of his charges was possession of counterfeit money. So it made me kind of nervous. You know what I mean? I don't, you know, I don't know if I heard that he might be cooperating. Of course, I mean, you never know. And, like, I'd say, well, no, this was before the lease was up.

So after a couple months, I was doing it for a couple months, and then he got arrested. And I was at my house one day, and we missed the trash. You know, we didn't bring the trash by the road one morning. I know that's how, you know, the Secret Service tries to get a search warrant. If they suspect you're counterfeiting, they'll go through your trash cans first to look for evidence, you know. So I'd always bag up my trash separately, like all the counterfeiting. and I had like an office with, you know, different color shifting sprays, ventilation to spray it with lacquer indoors.

But I'd bag up all the trash, you know, separately. But about a week after he got arrested, I noticed the trash truck was, it was like trash picked up on a Monday, and this was like a Wednesday. And it was just parked outside of my house. So I'm like, that's weird. I'm like, oh, can you take, I forgot to bring the trash down. Can you take this?

So we can't throw it in. Absolutely we can. They boom, dump it in. It was empty. You could tell. It made a big sound. And then they just drove off and like a black, blacked out suburban drove off after them. So that like spooked me.

You know what I mean? I knew there was no counterfeiting evidence in there. But still, you know, you were being watched. It appeared that way. So which the Secret Service in Knoxville said, I mean, after I got arrested, I asked them if that was them. If they knew, they didn't admit to it. I don't know if they would, though. but right but anyway so then my lease was up so i was like fuck this i'm not even getting a new house

i'm gonna go all in with this money thing and we'll just stay at hotels you know um so we started living at uh hotels um and i just met multiple different drug dealers and and usually i'd uh you know rip them off basically like there were a few at the end that i was honest with them about the bills but like usually i'd just go buy heroin from these drug dealers and you know i'd get them for five grand 10 grand with heroin right so you're giving them you're giving five grand of fake bills getting 5,000 in heroin and then you're selling reselling the heroin i mean yeah doing it selling it yeah um well i mean i'm assuming you're making some you got to be making money you're living in a hotel oh yeah yeah of course well that's and and by this point so i started like

the first time I actually went in and broke a bill, it was in a taco bell, which now I know, like, you don't go to fast food restaurants because a lot of those places have the safes under there with, like, bill validators. It's basically like a vending machine safe. Right. That's how they deposit money as you put it through this bill validator. And my bills didn't work in that because it detects, like, infrared and magnetic ink and all these other security features. So, but at the time, I didn't know that because I just started breaking them.

I went into a Taco Bell at like midnight before they closed and she just pelt it up. I bought like two tacos. She gave me $95. Right. Nice. You know, it was nervous at first, but it worked without a problem at all. So. Did they ever figure it out later?

Like, because you have photos and stuff of you passing bills. Yeah, yeah. Well, that was. I don't know if that was one of them. You're saying no. No, no. Okay. Eventually, you know, the whatever store, they get a counterfeit.

bill at the end of the week the armored truck will come pick up their deposit take it to the bank and then the bank will realize that this money's fake right but then they only have a window of okay we got this counterfeit bill within this week of time yeah they don't have any idea it's not worth it's not worth you'd have to review a week's worth of footage even them you're not getting your hundred bucks back exactly so now i spent six hundred dollars reviewing or a thousand dollar reviewing footage a federal a special agent to sit there for a week reviewing footage so you just hit yeah i felt pretty confident that uh i could just start shopping right at that point um so you know basically me and my wife but the problem was finding the bible paper

um because i tried to buy it in bulk online but apparently there's there's only three manufacturers of bible paper and you have to buy it in the world there's three you have to buy it in the world those three and you have to buy it in like giant reams right which was just not you know didn't want to do that i didn't want a paper trail of you know receiving a palette of bible paper you know um so i'd go on road trips to uh you know Atlanta Chattanooga I was in Knoxville I went to every bookstore I was Googling bookstore Barnes & Noble books a million going there and just ripping out the blank four to 10 to 20 blank pages in the back so like in a in a Bible section at a Barnes & Noble say there's a hundred Bibles with you know four to 10 sheets in each

one I mean that one bookstore is worth a hundred grand right worth of paper so but eventually that you know eventually I literally ripped out every blank page of every Bible from Atlanta to Cleveland Ohio you know so I started paying maintenance men at hotel I went I was living at hotels so every day I'd check into a new hotel room and take at least a two, three, four blank pages out of the Bible in the nightstand. And one day we'd check into a hotel and there was no Bible there. So I saw the maintenance guy and I was like, hey, let me get the Bible. I was like, you don't keep Bibles in the rooms anymore?

He's like, no, we've got boxes of them in the maintenance closet. So I was like, let me buy those bottles. I'm like, I'll give you a gram of dope, a hundred bucks, whatever. Let me get those boxes of Bibles. So we were paying maintenance guys to, you know, just bring us. all the Bibles from each hotel Right And one of my

The co-conspirator that set me up Was going up to Cleveland, Ohio to buy drugs And he was paying maintenance guys at hotels to, you know I was giving him fake money He was going up there to buy heroin And come back with heroin and Bible paper But Yeah

I mean The guy that And what I was The guy that set me up, I ended up, like, meeting him from just buying... How long did this go on for? About two years. So for two years, you're living in hotels? Yeah, pretty much hopping around.

See, like with counterfeiting, you got to, you have to move around. You know what I mean? You don't want to sit, which that was a mistake of mine, was spending too much in Knoxville. which that way the reason i i got caught was because guys set me up up in cleveland ohio right but um still just in retrospect i was spending too much money in knoxville i spent like four hundred thousand dollars in fake bills in knoxville in the course of like a year and a half so um but uh so did did you ever see the movie to live and die in l.A.? no i've heard of it and i've oh it's william defoe and he was printing money yeah oh you've got to see

that movie it's a great movie yeah i'd like to see that i know about it i've i've been meaning to watch it but yeah i mean it's it's old like how old are you 35 fuck it's probably 25 30 years old but it's the 80s i think yeah but it'd be great though you'd love it you'd love it this guy's like super professional but you know it's also there's this it's dangerous you know you you you realize that man it's tons of fucking money it's it's a dangerous it can be a dangerous situation and he's being they know they're they're tracking him they're all over him there and he knows everything he knows their tactics and he knows what they can do and what they can't do like he's literally knows he's talking to fbi agents yeah or are they secret i think i think back then it was

fb well i or no secret service always been counter for always been counted but it's still and the thing i think they're fbi but regardless only because people don't realize secret service i have people when i get arrested they're like secret service they're like secret service, Cox is lying. He wasn't arrested by the secret service. They only, they only, um, protect the president or, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, he's lying. It's like, motherfucker, you, shut, you, shut, you, you don't know what you're fucking talking. Secret service took over, like, all financial crimes. Right. Especially if it deals with identity theft. Yeah. Like, any financial crime, crime can still be

investigated by the FBI, but if identity theft is involved, it almost always gets shifted to the secret service yeah but regardless um yeah i mean great movie you got to watch that movie i'm sorry sorry um sorry sorry got to watch that movie i'd like to watch it um so one of these guys i was buying heroin from i got probably got them for like 10 000 dollars over the course of a few weeks um and these have never come back on you we'll see a lot of times i'd do that get about five 10 grand worth and then and then just stop dealing with that guy Because, you know, you don't know if you buy 500 bucks a worth of dope from somebody and it's fake, you call them the next day to buy 500 more dollars, you know, you don't know. Some of these guys might have found out and are fucking pissed and trying to set you up.

Yeah, that you show up and they got a gun. So you really have to be able to read people over the phone and kind of, you know, which, but eventually when people did find out, they weren't even mad because they were, you know, they'd hold them up. these drug dealers would think they were real and then they'd go re-up with it or go shopping and spend them and they always worked so even when they found out like oh these bills were fake you've been giving me nothing but fake bills like they'd laugh because they didn't lose any money you know what I mean right he's white boy just got me from 10 grand like more power to you you know what I mean so this one guy in particular um you know I came uh well at one point I did rent a little house I had roommates and we were staying in a house for a couple months. So at that point... Where's the wife at this point? She's with me. I mean, we're traveling around, you know what I mean?

With the kids and the hotels and shopping. I mean, that was my job was to, you know, basically wake up in the morning. Go spend money. Print. Make, you know, say $2,500. Go shopping, spend it all, get real money, get a hotel room, tape paper to do the printing part. Because the Bible paper's too thin. So you'd have to tape it on a regular piece of printer paper to feed it through.

So I'd sit there all night, taping Bible paper, you know, have a stack like this for the next morning to print them and then go shopping. And it was just every day was a, you know, it was like a job, you know what I mean? Yeah. Constantly working on it. Just a lucrative. Well, you're making money. I mean, that was the whole goal, you know what I mean? Like I do selling drugs, doing all this stuff to make money.

It's like really just cut out the middleman. That was my thinking. You know what I mean? if I can find the way to make legitimately good money that passed every time. There's no point in not doing that in my eyes. So there's one guy I went home and he was standing in my driveway. I was going to say, the people you were clipping too are drug dealers. So even if they get caught with the money, you know, it's not like it's not like it's fucking a little lady or anything.

And most drug dealers think that counterfeit, like I've had a few that found out and I'm like, well, do you still want? you want to start buying them from me and that oh i don't fuck with counterfeit you know that's serious and i'm like you're you're selling heroin you're selling heroin yeah well you know i got i got a year in the feds for counterfeit and hundreds of thousands of dollars you're so you're trafficking heroin interstate with guns on you and you're worried about counterfeiting well he's just he just hadn't got caught by the right people yeah once you get 15 years fuck yeah every counterfeit every counterfeiter i ever met in in uh prison had hadn't it they were always like the second or third time like they were getting like two years three years you know five years and it's this third time he's doing it

and he got like five years it's like fuck yeah they say the the recidivism rate of counterfeiting is is higher than a heroin addict yeah but listen the one of the highest recidivism rates is is fraud and that probably they're saying that probably falls within the fraud department higher than uh drug dealers but so the guy you said one time you had moved into a place and the guy i i went pulled in the driveway and he was standing in my driveway and this is a drug dealer i've been ripping off every day for two months and so i'm thinking like oh fuck right this is going to be a problem you know what i mean but i was i was buying the heroin through this this girl that was a roommate so like i'd go up to people like i was buying stuff from drug dealers every all the addicts i knew i'd be

like hey get you know from your guy help me set up your drug dealer and we'll split it because that way it doesn't fall on me so in this case i was doing that with this girl but we were living together so when it fell on her i was still there so but basically i overheard him saying like i'm not mad i just want to i just want to find out where you were getting these from so i like heard that i just walk in the house you know the next day i go up to her i'm like give me that dude's number so i call him and i'm like i'm the guy you're looking for you know what i mean yeah let's meet up and we can talk in person so i meet up with him and of course see all these drug dealers when they do find out the bills are fake they're like i want two million dollars worth

in a week yeah and they don't realize like i'm not just photocopying these each one you're cutting them out spray this is labor intensive it's exactly i mean you're it takes probably 10 i mean i got it down to where i could make a hundred dollar bill in probably 10 minutes right But still, I mean, if you factor a million dollars worth, that's going to take months of cut and spray and, you know, letting it dry. You're paying your bills. You just have to pay your bills. You stuff to that. And in the end, how are you going to move a million dollars? Well, and that's the other thing. Like, I tried to keep everything under 10,000 because that's the other thing. I was printing the 96 series 100. So I figured it'd be kind of weird to go by, you know, four kilos of heroin with all. 96 series hundreds you know i mean right kind of cause suspicion you know what plus those you have to

acquire the the you have to acquire the the you have to acquire i mean it's just it's just very labor intensively it said in my paperwork that uh that was the issue i mean obviously the paper you know what i mean i'd make a road trip to say chattanooga hit up four different bookstores walmarts get all the bible paper in the whole fucking city and it'd be enough to to make a hundred thousand dollars worth but you know then you have to make it spend it you know what i mean so it was a constant like i said it was a job like you'd go to one city collect the bible paper in a couple days then spend the next couple days you know printing and making bills and then the next couple days shopping so i'd go to different cities for a week at a time to you know pass you know acquire

the materials make them and then and then pass them so was a guy he wanted a million oh yeah i was like man doesn't work like that i was like you know if you you want, say, when you're going to Cleveland to re-up, I'll, you know, I'll sell you 10 grand for $2,500, you know what I mean? So he started doing that, you know, and he'd have his real cash in there too, but he was getting a discount on his heroin because, you know, basically 10 or 15 of the $1,000 he was buying at a 25% rate. So. Right. But eventually that, that guy specifically was the one that set me up and he got uh so one time he was supposed to go up to Cleveland and I was supposed to go with him so like he was going to re-up and I was going to

you know bus bills I would go around shopping um and I ended up getting arrested on I think it was like a failure to appear some little petty thing I went to jail like bonded out the next day but in that time I guess he just went to Cleveland without me um So I got out and one of his little runner girls that was selling dope for him told me, like she said, you know, he told me not to tell anybody, but he's in jail up in Cleveland. So I was like, he told you not to tell anybody. I'm like, that's a red flag. You know what I mean? So.

And that's, yeah, towards that part, we ended up renting a house together. as well um and he was selling do he was like the trap house with me in the back room with ventilation fans right blowing lacquer out the windows and making money um so i went to that house she she informed me ease in jail up in cleveland he told me not to tell you i was like he told you know yeah yeah well i'm getting my stuff and getting the fuck out of here then so you know we uh get all the the printers computers ventilation fans all this stuff and go get a hotel room um and you know there's a lot of information you find out in discovery so like at the time i was just thinking okay he's probably cooperating right so i need to be gone i need to get out of here

stop talking to him so like two days later i'm in this hotel and he calls me and he's like hey man i got that bible paper let's meet up and i was like no man now the first thing he should have said was bro i got arrested i the first thing that's the first thing you say is because you know you don't on people assuming that you're cooperating. Yeah, in the moment you don't mention that as being a major issue. Exactly, exactly. I'm no dummy, you know what I mean?

I've been doing this a minute. So basically he's like, oh, let's meet up. I got this Bible paper. And I was like, no, I was like, I'm just going to live out of hotels for a while again. I think our relationship is over. You know what I mean? And he was like, why, what do you mean? You know?

And I was like, first of all, you're acting fucking sketchy, bro. Like, you got arrested. You didn't tell me. That's a, I'm like, what are you doing, bro? I'm like, even if you didn't cooperate in reality, I still don't trust you anymore. You know, we're done. So, and he gave me this story like, oh, yeah, I did get arrested. But they didn't, they didn't find anything.

It was, because he had a stolen car. He bought a car with a title and ended up being stolen. And I knew that, like, I told him. He was like, I bought this 2000, what was it, a 2010 charger for 500 bucks and an eight ball. I'm like, bro, that's stolen. Obviously stolen. He's like, I've got the title, it's not, we're good. I'm like, whatever, bro, it's stolen.

I guarantee you bought it from some junkies for 500 bucks, bro, it's stolen. So he was saying, oh, that car was stolen. He was like, you were right, man, that car was stolen. He's like, but that's the only reason I got arrested. So I had to use that money to the money I was going to re-up with, to bond out. So I couldn't re-up. So I'm back in Knoxville. Let's meet up.

And I was like, no, again, I'm like, bro, it's not happening. You know what I mean? He was like, well, can you? was trying to get me to get him a kilo of heroin through some other people I knew and he knows I don't like I mean I dibble and dab with drugs you know yeah but I wasn't I'm not selling kilos on the on the phone he's like get me you know 700 grams of heroin I'm like on the phone I'm like what are you what are you doing bro so needless to say I just hung up once I asked for that I was like man you're out of your mind and I specifically was like the feds are listening yeah so I was

like you're the drug dealer why are you asking me for drugs you are the drug dealer i'm just i'm just some junkie remembers to buy you know hang up the phone and uh well sure enough they gps pinged my phone to the location of where the hotel was and just even talking to him is what led to my arrest nice so how they so they what happened how they grab you they come and knock on the door real lightly and ask you to please come outside and well can you can you meet us at the Can you meet us at the station at your convenience? So I was staying in a hotel room with my wife at the time and this other chick Dylan, who was selling drugs for these Detroit people.

But anyway, so I woke up, we woke up in the morning and I was going to, you know, start printing. I think somebody, one of the Detroit guys wanted like six grand, I think, or something. He put in like an order, so I was going to make sense. six grand they went shopping um so that you know i'm in there i start you know cutting paper spraying printing all this my wife and dylan leave to go shopping that's all i know about 15 minutes later i get a knock on the door so i look through the peephole and it's just black yeah somebody's put so my first instinct was like oh that you know the detroit people that are selling dope out of this room somebody's probably trying to rob them or something because i'm

I was thinking the police would just kick down the door. Like, I didn't think they'd put, you know what I mean, put a thumb over it. So I was like, you know, go away, nobody's here, you know what I mean? And knock again, you know, black thumb over the people, look out the window, and I see just the line of Knox County sheriffs. I was like, that's it, bro. You know what I mean? So I start trying to flush, flush this paper money. And I didn't, at the time, I was in the process of making it.

So it was all one-sided. I hadn't glued it together yet. So technically that's not illegal because you're allowed to print money as long as it's black and white, well, what was it, 50% smaller, 150% bigger, black and white or one-sided.

So you can print money all day long as long as it's one-sided. But they have the other bills. Well, they have... Yeah, the problem was the computer, because all my bills had different serial numbers. So each file on this computer that could then link

me to every serial number that I produced, you know what I mean? Right. It was the evidence that it wasn't, I didn't get possession of anything, but they got a laptop with, you know, all the files that could link me to every, every bill that I...

It's all those, those little tiny things that you're thinking, well, technically at this and technically, bro, you don't want to go to fucking, you don't want to go to trial on technically. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. You're just, you know. I wouldn't go to trial with the feds. I wouldn't, I wouldn't go to trial with the feds if I was innocent. Yeah.

I always say, look, if they came in right now, the DEA arrested me right now and said, hey, we got you selling four fucking kilos of Coke. I'd be like, well, can I get a deal? Like, what? Because I know you're going to prove it. You're going to be able to prove it. If they can't prove it, they're going to get somebody to say it. That's what I'm saying.

Even if I've never been seen, seen it. I know that at trial, you can prove this somehow. You already think you. That's how you got the indictment. I know I'm done. That's just the state people don't even realize that's really where you live. Well, the feds don't, yeah, like you said, the feds. don't even indict you unless they

they've got it you know that's why you like in my case I had state charges so you know knock on the door I start flushing this paper money uh you know I put like probably two grand in the toilet flush it I go to put another few thousand in the toilet and but

I guess they shut the water off yeah they're not stupid so they see because like when dude asked me for that like 700 grams of heroin or whatever they were assuming there was drug task force there they were assuming like there's kilos of open this hotel room so there was organized crime unit drug task force Cleveland secret service Knoxville secret service KPD you know so they they saw all these bills are just in

the toilet now that won't flush so that doesn't look suspicious at all at that point they start kicking the door in which you know it's like steel reinforced doors caused the you know a fucking panic attack because it's like I was hoping they just kick it in get it over with the rest of me they're sitting there boom boom boom boom you know for like five minutes and I don't I mean you in a hotel room what the fuck do you do you know yeah there's no back door i just sit down light a cigarette wait for him to come in and you know obviously they throw me down you know all that good stuff but so they arrested me on state charges for the first like three four months um of a criminal criminal simulation is what the state charge was until the feds could simulation of what money criminal simulation

is the charge yeah that's okay well it's basically just their generic i mean you can get criminal simulation i think it's just uh it's like a state charge it's generic for like fraud basically oh okay you know but uh yeah it was i never heard that that's all you never heard that no listen i think every state has different yeah yeah yeah but uh you know so i think the original charge was like criminal simulation over 60 000 or something and then you know three months later you go to court the state's going to drop your charges yay great i already knew you know news coming so but then of course they've taken me across the street to the federal building served me an indictment i always love the guys that they actually let them out they actually like

walk out and make a mistake yeah give them hope you know yeah let them into the lobby and they're free for like a like a good 30 seconds and they're like hi i'm so-and-so from the martial i already knew they had a bond source uh bond source hearing on my charges which uh you know what that is like if you're if you're gonna bond out where the money come from yeah you got to prove it's legitimate and all this, which I already knew that gives, that's like a sign the feds are going to indict you because that basically, you can't just bond out and get out. You've got to supply the money and then they set up a court date in a week so you can prove it. So it gives the feds a week's head start to serve you the indictment if you do try and bond out. So, but that was it. They let me

out on pretrial for a little bit, uh, and sentenced me to 10 months. Right. Well, you got 10 months, but you would, you said the actual, that at some point the secret, they came to you, they wanted to give you more time. Like, initially you were supposed to get more time, but the, yeah, the original guidelines was, I think it was like 24 to 36 or something, like two to three years.

Right. And so the Secret Service basically came to me. Well, let's go back, the dude E that set me up. Right. Once I got arrested there, he they let him go as an informant right you know what i mean and then he disappeared so he was on the run because like it's complicated but like the so the cleveland secret sir which could been good could be good that could be good for you it's great yeah yeah fucking because now now you got

well now you got nobody to connect me with any of this shit and he can't get on a stand and prove if you were to go to trial they got the laptop with the i mean the evidence was in my possession yeah okay but it still weakens their case yeah yeah but also like um So he, he went on the run. Like, basically he cooperated, got me arrested, and then he disappeared. And then, like, I guess, I was incarcerated at this point. But I heard that maybe two, three months later, he was in Knoxville again, accidentally fired a gun in his apartment.

The KPD went in there. Accidentally. I was a fucking idiot, man. KPD arrested him after all, all this. he wanted to be an informant for KPD Knoxville Police Department So of course He's a professional now

Yeah apparently You know So KPD is excited obviously Like a multi-kilo dealer Willing to cooperate So they let him go again Of course he goes on the run again You know he just makes promises to the police

He tries to disappear which I don't blame him You know whatever but So he was on the run So when the Secret Service came to me They were like Listen this guy that said you up You're co-defendant He was a co-conspirator on my case.

They were like, he's on the run now. We're trying to get him. So when he cooperated, the Cleveland Secret Service promised, you know, you get us this guy. We won't press charges on you for the counterfeit. He does that, but then he takes them to Knoxville. So then the Eastern District of Tennessee just indicted him. So it was just like he got a deal from the Cleveland Secret Service, but then the Knoxville Secret Service, you know. So anyway, he was a co-defendant on my case.

and, you know, the Secret Service basically said, you know, we'll give you cooperation credit if you show us how you made these bills, you know, confirm everything he already told us, make a training video for the Secret Service for future agents, you know, explain, go through all the evidence and show them. Yeah, they have to be experts on bills. So the best way to be an expert is figure out exactly how these bills are being made so that you can detect them and see. So, I mean, they need that. And they wanted, you know, to know certain things to look out for and this and that. So, I mean, the Secret Service said that the bills I was making were the best they've seen in, like, 25 years. Nice. So they, you know, said make a training video for future agents and we'll give you cooperation credit.

So that, that along with, you know, like admitting guilty. Yeah, yeah. Timely, timely, admitting fault or whatever it is. Timely plea and acceptance of responsibility. Yeah, so they basically said, if you. plead guilty today we'll keep uh you know plead guilty today and make this training video confirm everything he told us already you know plead guilty we'll keep the amount under $100,000 which avoids an enhancement because anything over $100,000 is an enhancement so they

like it was like 96,000 whatever they kept it just under 100,000 um and uh we they wouldn't charge my wife with anything so all her charges would be dropped And, you know, with, I knew with looking at, like, two to three years with the cooperation and that enhancement gone, I'd only be looking at, like, a year. So, of course, I'd fucking cut that, you know what I mean. I think they said at that time, they were like, we found $380,000 in Knoxville. You were still finding about $10,000 a week. It's coming in through the banks and this and that. So, you know, with that time, I don't know how much time I would have been looking at.

It probably would have been four years because that's another enhancement in all this. Yeah, that's four years if you plead guilty. Like if I know guys, if you go to trial, they'll start stacking the charges. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. So, I mean, yeah, that was an offer I could not refuse. Don't charge my wife, keep it at $100,000. Now I owe $100,000, or $96,000 in restitution, but, you know. It is what it is.

It is what it is. So, all right. And now you're out? Three years, fed paper. Yeah, I just got out. I was in Lexington, got out like three months ago, currently in a sober living house in Knoxville. What are you doing for work now? Well, I'm a printer.

Nice. I'm working at a print shop, vinyl shop, you know. It's called graphical warehouse. You know, they're good people there. I really got lucky landing that job. I was honest with them up, you know. In the interview, I told them, like, I just got out of prison. I was counterfeiting.

Yeah, well, that's a plus for them. It was experience. I was going to say I wrote a book called Bent about a guy that he was a counterfeiting plastic for the Russian mom. And same thing. All his stuff was graphic designs. He was always doing. He's always worked for print shops. And that's just what you like doing.

I mean, I think it's tempting for people who work, you know, when you're around printers and you know graphic design. There's so many things. You know, like if you're capable of fraudulently making, you know, births or technology. If it gets money, anything. Your mind's going to jump to that. I mean, yeah, it's tempting. I could use this for this. I could use this for this.

For sure. You know. For sure. And the amount of money you can make is unlimited, you know, unlimited, really, if you do it right. So it's definitely tempting. It's too good out here. You know what I'm saying? You go to prison for a year or two and you're just like, you know, I'm fucking, what am I doing?

Like, I'm not going to live like this the rest of my life. I'd rather live in a fucking somebody's spare room and be able to turn the channel when I want and have a fucking cell phone. Yeah. When I was doing that, that was the most stressful time. Obviously, I think that, I mean, I'm making U-turns everywhere thinking I'm being followed. You know what I mean? I knew to see. There were bolos out. There was a couple, like, pictures that were released on Knoxville websites. Like, well, we're looking for this guy for passing $100 bills. You know, you're always on the run, thinking you're wanted, you know. You're living out of hotel rooms. Yeah. Dealing with fucking scumbag drug dealers all the time. Right. And in the end, when you walk back out of prison years later, where's all that money? Yeah. Like you don't have any that money.

Yeah. Like it's, it's not, it's, I mean, in my opinion, even what I was doing, it's just, it's just not fucking worth it. Plus you owe it all back to them. Yeah. And they strip everything from you anyway. For sure. Now you start off and, yeah, yeah, it's bullshit. It's not the way to go.

But, um, all right. I appreciate you watching the videos. See you.