Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Bank Teller Steals 20m Queen Of Credit Card Fraud

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Ronnie, A former bank teller, reveals how she pulled off one of the biggest credit card fraud schemes, stealing millions before it all unraveled. ⁣ ⁣ Ronnie's links⁣ https://www.instagram.com/lollipop_ceo/⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@lollipop_ceo⁣ https://x.com/FitnessLollipop⁣ https://www.snapchat.com/@lollipopfit1⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://www.insidetruecrimepodcast.com/apply-to-be-a-guest⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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the system is different than it is right now. It was more easier. to manipulate the system. So I would have my cousin and other people in the hood come and withdraw like $8,000, 9,000. So I would give them all the slips, like the withdrawal slips. I would have them come to the bank with the slip. I would give them the account number that I'm going to withdraw the money from. It could be an IRA account, a CD account, mutual funds, and I withdraw like $8,000 from each account.

It was hundreds of accounts. Right. So I would have them coming there with the bank slip. and I'll just, I would tell them just to hand me to slip and I'll do my thing, act like you're handing me an ID. Back then, they didn't really have cameras inside the banks when you work there. And I would withdraw the money and give them the money. How did you, like, what led you to doing this?

Like, what, how did the idea kind of foster, you know? Well, they were older. So when my older clients would come in and they would have all these millions in the account, I had basically build a rapport with them. So I would know when they're coming in, what they're getting. Because, you know, older people, they really know when you have a CD account, they let them season to get their, you know, the interests on them. So the only thing they want to check, honestly, is the interest when they come in and talk to me

because they're familiar with me. So I kind of like monitor the older crowd on how they came to the bank. They would never notice that the money was gone. To this day, I don't know. Right. Well, you just started to realize, like, this is what's happening. Like, I could probably pull out some funds. I could probably manipulate the system. And I tried one time with my big cousin. I told her to come in a bank. And I told her exact, I went to her house. I told her exactly what to do. So I said, come in a bank, hand me the slip, and when you hand me the slip, I'm going to give me the money and just leave. So she came in a bank.

I had to fill out the account number, the name of the person, and I just scribbled the signature. So when she came and brought me the slip, I did everything in the computer, and I gave her the $8,000. What year was this? This was like, this was in the 90s, the early 90s. And what did she say? When you told her to do it, was she like absolutely not? Or was she like all in? She was, well, you know, I was the bad girl.

They just didn't know because I was the innocent one, honestly. So she was like, do what? I said, just come in a bank, hand me the slip, and I'm going to give you the money. It's going to be okay. Only you and I know, right? So she came in the bank exactly what I said, gave me the slip, and I gave her the $8,000. And later on, she was like, I could do this again. I said, get all the people you can to come to me and withdraw the money from me.

me. And I had so many people coming in the bank, but they didn't know. So just during the day, you're like, okay, this account would be good. Are you ever thinking, like... It'll be audited? Well, what I was thinking was, like, now we have the apps, right? Right. I'm checking my bank out all the time. Me too. I lock it.

And what I'm thinking is, like, you kind of know that I know that when, you know, Mr. Johnson comes in, he'll ask about, he'll make a deposit or he'll ask about this, but he never mentions, like, how much is in my savings account. And I notice that that money's been sitting there dormant for forever. Or he's got these CDs. He never, you know, like you said, he never really checks him. He might say, hey, what's the interest on that or what's my dividend or what, but he's never really saying, what's a balance of those? Correct. So you just kind of start to know. I would know, I memorize everything. I just memorized. My mind was like out of this. I will remember account numbers, how much they have in the account, how much they made in interest, the dividend.

I remember, we'll remember everything. So when they come in the bank, I would know exactly what they're going to ask me. See, back in the day, it wasn't like you could get a copy of your bank statements or write it down for them. So I would write it down exactly what they were asking me. So they never really asked, the older crowd will never really ask how much is there like, what's my balance in my savings account? And you just write it on a slip. I'll just write it. Which account?

Oh, yeah. Hold on. And they'll never miss it. So, and you're like around 8,000 because if it's over 10,000. We have to do the paper. Right. Yeah. So how many people are coming in?

A day? Yeah. A day? This is happening. Like, you're doing this every day? I would do this daily. Man. Are you at the teller?

I'm at the teller. So you don't have like a, you don't have, you're not one of the the people that are at, like they have a little cubicle somewhere. You're at the town. I'm at the teller. And then eventually I will work. And the banks were different back in the day. So I will work as a teller.

And then if they wanted to go like to their safe deposit box, I'll go to my desk and walk them to their safe deposit box. You ever had a safety deposit box? Did it have a lot? No. I used to have one. I used to have one. I got in trouble. They brought me in my safety deposit box one time.

That was embarrassing. Like this two officers walk in and I'd be like, any of my safety is positive about it. The two guys are together with their IDs and they're like, oh. And it's crazy because how I got this idea, my big cousin, who I used to go to San Francisco with and she used to pickpocket, that's how I learned the game. She would have me there just to be a distraction. She thought that I didn't know I was being in a distraction, but I had done it so much as a little girl. I knew exactly what was going on because at what was.

when she would pickpocket, we'll go sit down and have lunch, and when she pickpocket whomever around us, she will always take me shopping. So it was this time they had came up on something really big. I guess someone's mutual funds and college funds. So one of her associates asked me to go on the bank with them, put on a baseball cap, and sit there, don't say anything. And they gave me a college hat, I think said Cal Berkeley or something like that. So I just sat there and he talked to the new accounts guy.

I'm like, yeah, I'm just withdrawing the college funds and she's about to go to college, whatever, whatever. And at that time, we left out the bank with $100,000. They counted out $100,000. $100,000. We also had savings bonds. I don't know if they have those today. We cash savings bonds. He took everything out of the college funds.

So I was sitting there just listening. So that gave me an idea, I want to work at a bank. Right. So you know this is possible. So are you saying you got the job at the bank thinking this is something I could do someday, not just as like, oh, I got a job? So it wasn't really at the bank. No, at the time, I just got a job.

Okay. But you had that in your mind. Yes, it was always in my mind. And I always liked money because how I was raised. My father, you know, my father always had money, his lifestyle. Yeah, well, I don't know anybody that's a, adverse to money. I'm not interested.

Oh, thank you. I always want to be a boss, like my father, basically. So are you still living with your grandmother? Right now? No, my, no. Oh, okay. Then? Oh, yeah, I was still with my grandmother.

Because my grandmother was really strict. I had a daughter at a young age. I was 15 years old. I had a daughter at a very young. Yeah. So grandma's raising her too? Well, she's raising both of us, you know. And my grandmother, she was speaking.

She didn't believe in abortions and all that stuff or whatnot. But I didn't know what I was going to do with a kid. I just knew my grandmother was going to help me. So I was pretty nervous. So you're at the bank. So did you ever say how many people a day were coming in? At least 20 people a day will come in. Sometimes I would change up the number.

It wouldn't be 9,000 all time. Maybe it would be 5,000. Maybe it would be 2,000. But I should switch the amount up all the time. At this point, I mean, at what, there's got to be a point. when you start, or you start to think if there's an audit, that there's an extreme amount of cash to be flowing out of the bank. So what you have to do back then, everything was paper.

So you could fill things out. So before, when I did stop, it was a discrepancy. But the bank manager was so confused, she looked over it. So at that point, when I was this close to getting busted, I started, I learned a new game, which is called Cash. advances, which is the approval game. Okay. So that's how I learned the approval game. One time a customer came in a bank.

Well, wait, let me ask you this. Go back for a second. Okay. The manager comes to you and says they've done like an audit. And it was $20,000 missing because I used to shuffle things around. Right. And that's one thing. I had missed something.

It was my mistake. I'm a human, human error or whatnot. And she was like, let's just do this together just to make sure because I know it's not, it was $20,000 somewhere missing with the paperwork. And somehow I manipulated the paperwork where it all balanced out together. And that was that. But I came that close to getting in trouble where I was like, I can't do this no more. I had something had happened one time.

And this was when, well, this was in 2000. I'm going to say 2006, where one day we went to log on to like my account or something or I called and it was in the negative like 9-9-99-9-9-9 across the thing. And it was like, but I had like, let's say I had, I don't know what I had, but I had like 100,000, $200,000 in this bank account. And it's completely fraudulent, by the way. Correct. It's, it's, it's, I had a real, a real ID or driver's license from the DMV in the name

of a homeless guy. And I'd open a bank account, borrowed money, everything. And so when I called, say, hey, what, it, what's going on? They're like, we need you to come in the bank. Now, typically, if you're involved in fraud, you don't go in the bank. You're like, oh, that's it. And you take off or throw everything away and hope it doesn't catch you. But I knew that this guy didn't.

This guy lives under a bridge five states from here. Correct. They don't know this is stolen. And I have an ID. So I was like, okay, so I went down. And I was like, what's going on? And they were like, and they looked. And they said, well, you withdrew like 20.

$20,000 something. And they showed it to him. I was like, no, no, no, no. Like, this was like two days earlier. Right. And I went, I don't know. I got a cashier check for $10,000. Right.

You guys have $10,000. Then you have another $10,000. And they're like, right. And at the end of the day, the books didn't balance. And this is what we found out. And I said, no, no, no. You guys issued me a check for $10,000 for a closing or something. I said, I don't know what this $10,000 is.

So I was, so I, at the end of the day, just like, like you said, the books didn't balance. And they were trying to, they were asking me. And I was like, no, no, help them figure it out. Right, help them figure it out. So you can manipulate the system. Well, no, I didn't, it was genuinely, they. Your error?

They were, they was, it was an error. Okay. They had like the person, like, I guess at some, at a different bank or something, they actually would remove it in cash. They put in like a cash. Oh, it didn't balance out. Instead of doing a cashier's check. To buy the cashier's check.

Exactly. And their system wasn't like that. and whoever helped me who was from another bank. So it still took them like a day or so. They called back. I was like, because they turned my alarm. They turned it back on. They put the money back in because I was adamant.

I only took $10,000. They like, okay, well, we'll look into it. And they put the money back in. They said the accounts, okay, you're fine. And then a couple days later, I don't know if I went in the bank or they called me. Somehow they explained like, here's what happened. We had somebody else, a girl at another bank, blah, blah, blah. It was a problem.

So she double hit us for $10,000. It was complete accident. It didn't balance out. Right. Because things were done so differently back then. But when they came to you and she explained, like, were you shocked? Were you like, oh. I was nervous.

I was scared. I was thinking, like, what can I do or whatnot? But I knew her so well. And I knew the system so well where I kind of manipulate her to think that it was balanced out. But I quit that bank and I went to a different bank. Because I was that close. Because it was so easy getting job. Once you work at one bank and you get bonded,

it's easy for another bank to hire you, long as you didn't get fired. I got a quick question, and when you answer it, you can just answer it to math. Okay. But how soon did you get up to, would you said,

eight to 20 people a day or something? Like how soon, how quick did you scale that and how much money, like how quickly did the people scale and how quickly did the money scale? Meaning. Like, did you,

you did your friend. Your friend came, was it your friend or your cousin? My cousin, yeah. Your cousin came once, and then maybe a couple days later she comes again. And then how long of a period of time before it got to 20 people a day? Was it like three days?

Or was it like within two months I'm doing 20 people a day? Well, you have to think I'm from the hood. Okay. So people is hungry. You know, everybody wasn't living how me and my grandparents are, you know, everybody's parents wasn't working or whatnot, you know. So it took, I say, maybe over 30 days. And then that's, that's 100.

$30 and $60. Yes, I was getting a lot of money. It's 100 to $100. How much are they getting? Is it 50%? I will give them half. Okay. I will give them half.

So 20 times $4,000 is $80,000 a day. And sometimes it was $9,000 because I wouldn't go over $10. How long did that go on before? I did that for like a good six months because I was already working at the bank. So where is this is all in cash? Where is the cash? I'm the ball custodian. Right.

So I'm the fault custodian as well. I mean, doesn't it feel like you. They need to have separation of duties. Back then. You've got too much control. I had to, yeah. And how long had you been working before they put you in this position? When I first worked at the bank, I was a bank teller.

For how long? I saved for maybe like six months. And then they made me new accounts. And also over the vault. And I was a ball custodian. Yes. Like that seems like six months and you're in a position of trust. Within a year, because I was there for at least a year and some change because I jumped from bank to bank.

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But now I would never. Well, you have a better concept of time now. Yeah. When you're a kid, six months for a kid, as an eternity. Yes, it was just, to me, it was the high. That was my high. It was never drugs. It was that.

Where is this cash? I would hide it under my grandmother's rug or in her closet in the shoebox. How does she, I mean, did you go out and buy a brand new car? No, eventually I did. Well, then, you know, my grandmother, I was really spoiled. Right. So I really didn't have to do things. Right.

I just did it because it was fun, basically. And it made me feel like I had superpower or something like that. It's like an out-of-body experience. I can't really explain it. Right. But eventually, I had like a, back then, Honda Civics was really cool. I had a brand-new Honda Civic and I had a brand-new Honda Civic and I had a brand-new Honda court at two cars.

My grandmother financed it. Like back then, like, when your grandparents, if they'd get it. you permission to go to the Honda dealership, you could go and sign. I don't know, but yeah, I signed or whatever. So I got me a Honda Civic and a Honda Corp because, you know, you could get two cars. And you're making the payments. And I'm making the payments to my grandmother. So to them it doesn't seem odd.

No, because I'm still working. Right. So they're not thinking that I'm doing something that's illegal. So after the audit, after you skate through the audit, how long before you quit and? Maybe like 90 days because I didn't want to just jump and have a red flag. Maybe like 90 days I applied for another job at a different bank. And then, yeah, I worked at a different bank. I worked about four different banks.

So how did the next bank, how did the scam develop? I was working as a bank teller again. And that's how I learned how to do cash advance, which is called the approval game today. Okay. So one time a young lady came in a bank and her car declined. So on the box, it said call customer service. So I called customer service and I gave them the name, the last part of the credit card and the expiration date. And then they did ask to speak to the customer to ask them some personal information.

So when they asked to speak back to me and then they gave me the approval code. So back then it was a knuckle buster. It wasn't like a receipt come up how it is today. we have the knuckle buster. So I wrote the information down, and I wrote how much, I think it was a cash advance made for like $8,000 that the lady was getting.

And then that's when a light bugged came in my head. And I was like, okay, this is my next one, basically. But you need the physical card to do this? Yes, you need the physical card at that time. So what I was putting my plan together. So every time someone would come in

and an authorization, so you didn't have to call all the time. Right. Sometimes it would go through all the time, but the authorization code would pop up on the little screen. So I would start writing the authorization codes down because at that time I thought that's what I needed. I didn't know I was going to do this, but I was writing it down anyway because I was running out of money, the other money I was getting. You know what I'm saying? So I was just spinning.

I was spinning. So one time I worked there for a minute and eventually I had a friend coming to bank with a card because my my my cousin used to pickpocket so they had credit cards and IDs we had a credit we had an ID man I can't say his name but we had an ID man online where um he was Hispanic and he will always get us IDs when we call so I would get have a get an ID made to the credit card that my cause my cousin would give me and have somebody come in the bank with me and do a cash advance okay on on a card a on a card a old card it don't have to have anything on there so what they do they do a slide the card, the car would decline, I would act like I'm calling customer service just to see if it's

going to go through or whatnot. So I'll just act like I'm calling customer service or whatnot. I would hand the person the phone and they would talk. And I already explained this to them. Oh, yeah. They've got, they know what's happening. They know exactly, but they were scared to death. But I was confident that I knew what I was doing, right? So I would fill out the slip because back then it was a slip you'd fill out for the credit card, the name, address, whatnot, and how much they're getting out. And I will put the authorization code there or whatnot. But I knew the system, but it has to go through the system as well so it can balance out at the end of the day. It takes 14 days for anything that you do authorization

to come back. But it wasn't me, so it wouldn't be on me. It would be on the customer that they don't know. Because back then, you could be a non-customer to get a cash advance. So how So what are you getting these cash advances for, $6,000, $8,000? I will always do the max, like $9,900, $9,000, as long as it's not over $10,000. I would get the max. And so, I mean, did they have suspicious activity reports back then, or was it just the cash transaction report? Just the cash transaction reports. They didn't have suspicious.

Only when it said call, but I'm working in a bank. So when it says call, that's a good thing because you could manipulate the system. Right. You understand what I'm saying? So you can call them up and say, oh, yeah, they're here. I see the ID. Here's the numbers. Here's this.

And they'll give me the authorization code. Back then, we were getting, eventually, after the fourth bank, I was over it. So I went on the road. Well, so how long did you do that scam at that bank? And why did you leave? Why did you stop? Well, at that bank, I got in trouble because I cashed a check. That was my first case in 97.

Okay. So I don't know what I was thinking of. I was just doing everything. I went into the bank to a person I thought was my friend at that time, and I went to go cash a bank for $7,500. And I think the manager remembered me from working at the other bank. It was the same bank. She worked at one. I worked at the other bank. So he remembered me from working at the other bank, but I cashed a check for $75. Well, I made her cashed a check for $7,500. But this wasn't your check. This was just a stolen check. Yes, a personal check. Because you know back then you could see all the information. Do they have checks or whatnot so you could get a check? So, you know, I got a check.

I cash it. And she got in trouble when she told on me. And that was my first case in 97. Okay. And that's when I left that bank and I went to Melo Park. Well, you say you got in trouble. Did you get arrested? I got arrested.

Like how did they come and arrest you? Well, she told she got in trouble. And then she called a friend and she said tell Ronnie that the police is looking for her. I got in trouble and basically she said she told on me. Right. And so did they come to your grandma's house? No, I had to tell my grandparents because they were coming. So at that point.

Yeah. She said, you what? I said, grandma, I said, I'm in trouble. I need a lawyer. I said they want me to come to the federal building and I'm in trouble. Not little Ronnie. Yes, little Ronnie. She couldn't believe it.

She was flabbergasted. She couldn't believe it. So it wasn't funny at that time because I was scared to death. But we got an attorney, which was a janky attorney. My grandpa paid $75, I mean $7,500 on his credit card. You know, Papa had a whole bunch of credit cards. It was real stuff, though. Papa would not do stuff like that.

But he paid for my attorney $75, and I had to go to the federal building to talk to someone, downtown Oakland, which is the federal people. Because they want to know, like, you know, what? what was going on, but I was always raised from a little girl. You don't talk to anyone. My dad instilled that to me since, in me since I was a little girl. So when I went to the federal building to talk to the people with this janky attorney and they start asking me questions, I act like I passed out so they could take me to the hospital because I thought there was going to take me to jail, literally. So I knew at that point when I went to the hospital and passed out of

whatever, I was going to jail. I was in trouble. Right. But that was, that's when I got on ankle monitor. So that was, so they charged you with what, bank fraud? Bank fraud. Cashing a fraudulent check and bank fraud. I didn't get in trouble for the credit card stuff and all that yet. They didn't know nothing about that. Right.

But this is, this is a bank fraud charge. You got placed on home, what, home confinement? Home confinement. I think it was for 10 months, for 10 months. Oh, okay. 75, that, yeah, well. I don't think. That seems reasonable.

Yeah. That's not, like, I don't think you should have to go to 7500. You shouldn't have to go to jailhouse. No, I don't think I should have. But for some reason, I don't know why I jumped. It's crazy because every since when I got into the crime or the game or whatnot, I never had state anything. It was always federal. So that puzzled me.

That's straight to, I was going to say. I have a question. So you're on ankle monitor. Like, you can't work at a bank now, right? Like, did you get another job at a bank? I did. So you're still going to a bank? I went to another bank.

So you're working in another bank. Okay, I worked at one bank. I quit that bank. went to this bank and then I just forget it. I went, excuse my language, I went to where the white people was. Right. To go work there. So, and, but I thought, so they didn't check your references to, or you didn't put that reference down? I didn't put that reference down. Long as you're bonded, you're bonded. They just want you to be bonded. And so the, so the charge didn't catch up with the bond and

cancel you out as being. All right. So now you're working another bank. And I'm assuming you, I knew what I was going to do. I was doing straight cash advances. I knew I was just going to get over because I knew eventually I was going to quit and I was going on the road. All right. And so you complete probation? I've completed my probation. I was married at that time.

And when I got sentenced to the 10 months, I was pregnant with my son. Okay. So I was a little older. Right. Yeah. And so you finished that. So you said you worked for four banks. Yes.

So was that the last bank? That was the last bank. And then you just, one day you quit and said, I don't want to say the name is the bank, but I worked at this bank. And then I worked at this bank, and I transferred to the same bank, a different location. Okay. Mm-hmm. And then my last bank, I knew I was, I was just going to take their money. I knew that.

So you quit there, and when you say go on the road, what were you going to do? What does that mean? Meaning, you know, because my friends around me, they're like, where are you getting all this money from? You know, appearance change, different Mercedes, like, everything changed, you know? So you don't want to eat around your friends and you don't feed them as well. You know, we're all one. So instead of me looking out for them, I taught them the game as well. Yeah.

That's a mistake, by the way. A big mistake. I would have never got in trouble. I was going to say. But some of my friends were solid, though. All turn on you. And then it's your fault. And the truth is that they wouldn't have probably done the same for you.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. But you're young. You don't want to think about it. Because that's the same kind of stuff I did was I started helping. them run different scams and do this, money here. And the moment they got in trouble,

they all rolled over. Oh, yeah. I said, 16 people. And blame me. Yeah, 16 people told on me. I got the most time. Right.

You begged me. You wanted this. Yeah, you begged you. What are you doing? How can I get in? I help me? You know. Bad, bad idea.

Yeah. Do you know Bella barcode? Yeah, I know her. Okay. Yeah, just because it's very, she did the approval game too. Yeah. And was she from California?

She learned for me. Okay. She learned from you. Yeah. I'm the head hunter. So you're the one who showed her the game? Yes. Okay.

Because she kept saying the OG. Well, she also said, you know, we got a Mexican guy who does the IDs. Everybody knows a Mexican guy. Alex. Yeah, yeah. Yes, that's what I said. I don't want to say his name, but yeah. Yeah, I can make out the name.

Yeah, Alex. Yeah, Alex. Well, she, what happened was, we used to get jury, cars. You could pay for cars with a credit card, authorization, $75,000 cars, presidential Rolexes, Minks, Furs, Christian Dior, Little Vitan, Bottega, Yviguchi. Are you bringing your, so you have the same group of friends and you're going to other locations like other states? Bella was a separate entity for me.

But you said you said you had your, you got your group of friends together, your crew together. Did you go to other states? Oh, absolutely. Like what was kind of the M.O. Of the group? Okay, we did California first, you know, because we're all like, you know, because it was, you know, California is huge. So, so many banks, you could, any mini, mighty mail, what bank you want to go to today. Because they don't know nothing about this game.

Where the cards come, like, where are you getting the cards when you walk in? My cousin. Remember, she's a pickpocketer. Oh, yeah, yeah. So that's still what's happening? That still was happening because she was still doing her thing, but she had no idea what I'm doing. No one knew what I was doing or whatnot. So I would get the cards from her, which has zero on there, and it probably were bad cards.

But long as you could swipe the card and it said decline, you could definitely get the money. So it was good if it said decline. It was good if it said decline or if it said call. Because what you're doing is you're going to have the teller call the bank. And when they call the bank, you're like, can I speak to the customer service? Because I don't understand what's going on or whatnot. So you're going to speak. you're going to speak to customer service.

What I used to do, I used to hang up because I used to answer the phone. You know, I used to hang up, ask them, can they do, so they might walk away or whatnot. I would hang up. And back then you have to, I will use a phone card so you couldn't trace it. So you dial the number, down the number that you're calling. We had cell phones because I worked at a rent-a-car place as well. So at the renter-car place, they used to have, you could lease out phones. So I was doing a lot of stuff.

I was working at to rent a car place, taking their phones, using this to manipulate the system at the bank. So I would, you know, call. I would teach them how to answer the phone, the people that was up under me or my friends or whatnot, and I would call them. And they would do exactly what I said for them doing the phone. They'd act like customer service. They'll act like customers. Yes, they will go through the motions. And then I'd be like, you know, I'll tell, I'd be like, okay, would you like to speak to the merchant?

So I'll have them speak to the bank teller. And the bank teller don't know because they think it's customer service. Right. And they'll give them the authorization code and they'll go through. That just kills me. That they give you, oh, 990702-25. 990725. Okay.

All right. And then they give you the money. That easy. Like, that just seems insane. It seems insane to me. But you're also using, you're also using the, you know, knuckle buster. Yeah. Yeah.

You're where they would give, Colby's never even seen these. He didn't even know what this is. It's basically, it's a, whatever, it's that paper where it's a, it gives you multiple layers of the paper. Three, three sheets. And you have that, that black thing in the middle to copy. Yeah. Yeah.

I can't believe I can't remember the name of it. I'm older. And you put the card down and you, it rolls this thing over it and it makes the imprint of the card. So now they've got the imprint of the card. And then you actually physically fill out the little thing like, oh, $9,000 minus or plus $9 for the fee or whatever. So it's $9,09.

And then they slide. You sign it. You physically sign it with a pen. You keep this receipt. You keep this receipt. Right. And this is what they mail in to get them to give the money back. And the authorization code, they probably just write in the corner or something.

And that's it. Like that's, that's hard to track back then. The whole system was run like that. Yes, it was. So you know what's so funny is that it seems like, wow, how easy. or it seems now like that is like, okay, like that's easy to beat. Now it seems like that. But it's funny because the people to do credit card fraud now seem like the system now is easy to beat.

Like at the time, not easy. It's difficult until you've done it. It's like riding a bike. It is like riding a bike. If I described you riding the bike, you'd be like, that's impossible. What do you mean, balance myself on? two rotating a disc. That's never going to work.

Correct. And then you do it once and you're like, you know, a week later, you're doing wheelies, you're jumping off ramps. Right. You're doing no hands, you know. So initially it sounds impossible that like your friend says, or you're like your cousin, she's nervous as hell. And as soon she walked out.

She got that adrenaline. That adrenaline. And she's ready to go roll. Let's do another one. That high. Right. That's it was a high. And it was a high for me.

So you guys are going, so you're getting the cash advances. And I like doing it too. So I was doing it back then. was my high. I like, like, they were like, I loved going in the bank. See, it's funny, I would do real estate, I would do closings, right? Like, I'd borrow like mortgages on houses. I only went initially, eventually, once I went on the run, I did it all the time, but I never went in the bank. I mean, I never went to a closing knot or a bank. I only did it one time. At the very end, I actually went in. I was always afraid to go in. I was always just, I didn't want anybody to see my

face. But then once I was on the run, I knew they're always looking for me. You might as well fucking go. Right. So, but you're saying you wanted to go in the bank. I wanted to go in the bank. I didn't have to, but it was just like, it was my high. It was my adrenaline.

Your Bella was kind of the same way. She would go in and sit there and play the part. Yes, because you have to be, like me, I had a dress coat for my girls. So you have to be dressed up. You had to wear a suit. You had to carry a suitcase. It was, you have to wear heels. It was nothing like street clothes.

You have to dress that. You can't look like you have. in hurry. No. You have to be polite. You have to learn how to read people. You know, pick the person when you're going to the bank, pick the person you want that you feel like would be more naive, the situation. You know, or I will take a challenge and I will go to the manager.

Right. Well, also, the patience thing is because if you go into banks a lot, you understand that it's a process. It is going to take some time. They're going to even the money. But, yeah, they got to check this. They got to do this on the computer. might make a phone call, they might have to go in the back and call somebody. They might have to just.

I had a timer for my girls. You can't be in bank long than 10 minutes. Really? Yes. Oh, I've waited a long time sitting there waiting. Of course, they have all my ID and they have my drive. Like, they got all my stuff. Like, I can't leave.

If I leave, they're calling the police. No, really, no really. But a cash advance, it shouldn't take that long. Right. You know, it was 10 minutes times. Well, you're using somebody else's information. Exactly. That they might call them.

And now you have, now what you'd be waiting after 10 minutes, you'd be just waiting for the cops show up. No, basically, if you're in there longer to 10 minutes and, or if someone getting your business, shut it down and be like you'll just fix your card and come back another day. But 10 minutes top, because if anyone have to get on the phone and call somebody else, that's a red flag. If you have to call someone to help, if you have to call a different number, it's a red flag, you leave. Not run out the door. Yeah, yeah. But politely say that I'll try. I just need my stuff back.

Exactly. So you go to California first. What are you doing? So you're getting the cash. It's cash. You're already at the end of the fucking road. Like most people I'm thinking they're buying stuff and then they have to put it on eBay and sell it to get the cash and then they have to get the cash out of the bank.

But you're going straight to the cash. Give it the cash. We're just shopping, living. And it's crazy because we didn't have to use the money in a shop. We're basically just stacking. our money because we're using the credit cards to shop. You could do the same thing for a cash. You do for a cash advance, you could shop.

How old are you at this time? I'm like, at least 18, 19, 20. I can't remember, but I was in my early 20s. But sure in my early 20s. I wasn't that old. It's too young to have that kind of money. Way too young. And too young to have that kind of access, because you think it's, it's, you start

thinking getting money is that. It's just that easy and it's just not. To us it was. It was. It was really not. But you think the rest of your life's going to be like that. It's not. And it's just not.

It's definitely not. Then one day you have to get out of prison and go to work at McDonald's. You're like, oh, this sucks. I should have saved some of that money. Well, I had invested in a lot of property. But, yeah, it's not easy getting money like that. So after California, where do you go? I went to Seattle.

I went to Oklahoma. Do you guys ever get caught? How many people are there that are traveling? Are they all traveling, same people traveling with you all the time? I had different crews. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Me and my girlfriends, we would travel together.

We'll go to the same state together. So you might have six girls and we're hitting all these banks. Does anybody ever get caught? Oh, yeah. We've gotten caught before. Right. What happens when you, like what was the first time somebody got caught? What happened?

We'll bail them out and they'll fight their case. Okay. I hope they could get out. Sometimes when they were out of state, they didn't want you to leave the state or whatnot. But you didn't get, everybody didn't get caught all the time. Well, they're not getting caught for hundreds of, they're getting caught for six grand, seven grand. And that's not really bad. But people really didn't start getting caught until it migrated, it cut off.

Like, okay, I might have, I have my crew right here, which is my friends. And me, I'm vishing off getting other money with other sets of girls. So I'm teaching them how to do this. So how it got bad is when I start teaching other people how to do. do it and they running off with the game doing it themselves. So now I can't, I can't focus on my crew because none of us are getting in trouble, but they're getting in trouble over here so we don't know. Oh, they're not telling you I got arrested?

No, they're not telling me, you know. So basically, see, my number one, my other number of rule is never go behind someone. So I don't know where these people going because they're cat and off doing their own thing. Right. You know, they're pretending. You know, money, jealousy, evil, you know how that go. They're sneaking off doing their own thing. So a lot of these other girls are recruiting people to work for them, you know, behind my back or whatnot.

So they're getting in trouble. They're doing the own thing. Their etiquette is probably not the same etiquette that we're using. Right. You know, they're probably ghetto fab, talking on the phone, don't not having the right etiquette. And, you know, if you're not talking correctly, the person you're talking to, they'll catch that. Yeah. So, yeah.

I mean, you sound, you're creating an epidemic. Yes, I did. I did. That's kind of what happened with the, uh, the whole tax scam was, you know, it was very, it was happening for decades in a very small way. And then it hit the street and people started telling each other. Yes. It went crazy.

It went every, and suddenly the IRS has to stop it. Yes. Where before they were like, yeah, it happens every once in a while. Right. Now it's like, this is overwhelming. That's how it was. That's what the AP game, the approval code game. So the people that are getting caught, are those people getting caught and saying,

hey, listen, I got caught, you know, are they cooperating? It's not necessary to people, the people that are talking caught. It's the people that they recruited to get caught. Right. But it's still, those people could get caught. They could cooperate against the people that caught them. Some of those people are going to be like, oh, man, I'm. But it always went to me.

Right. They always brought me up. Yes. Right. That's what I'm saying. He got caught. He's nobody. He gets this person who's taught them.

And then that person's like, okay, now I got a problem. Correct. I'm looking at doing five or ten years maybe. They don't tell them that person. They tell on me. Of course. Well, you're the big. Yes.

Even if they tell them, this is nobody. I'm not, this person already told. It doesn't help me to tell on them. They already told on me. Right. So the only person that helps is maybe I give you a few more people, but I know. know I can get out of this or at least get my sinous substantially reduced if I give you her. Exactly.

That's how I got the top of the pyramid. Okay. I couldn't believe this. First time I seen the pyramid, I was just like, is that me? This is like the mobster thing with the picture in the line? I couldn't believe it. And then. And mind you, I kept all this from my grandparents.

Yeah, I was just, are you still living with your grandparents? Eventually, you know, I got married and I moved off. You know, I was a, you know, me and my grandparents are, you know, so I always went to my grandparents' house. But my grandparents and family, my family don't, when they see my, I don't know, can I talk about my TV show? Yeah. Okay.

When they see my TV show, so many people in my family was like, she did what? They didn't know. Is this trap queens? Yes. Oh, okay. And that's just part of it. Wait till my book come out. I'm almost finishing my book.

Okay. But that was just bits and pieces of it. That's not, you know more than what trap queen knew. Oh, they, I was going to say rap queens. They interview five hours a day for two days, and then it ends up being, you know, 32 minutes of the whole thing. You're like, what the, like that was all that, eight hours or something, you know, like. Yeah, I've been on a bunch of this. I love it when they come back and they condense the stories where they say, can you say?

Yes, the sound bites. Oh, my God. Over and over. Over and over again. Yes. And then you realize that, like, they're using those to. To connect, yeah, to kind of to connect scenes, that they're eliminating them. Yes.

And then you watch the thing and you're like. That show could have been bigger, but whatnot. But that's their model. Yeah. Listen, it's good to be on those shows because it gets, it gets the word out and and producers see it. And they go, wow, you know, let me talk to this person. Let me tell you something.

Honestly, I can't believe. I'm the most private person in the world. I can't believe I did it. What? Honestly, I cannot believe I did that. I'm the most private. quiet, reserved woman in a world. And so all your friends can't believe when they see you on there, they must have just been like.

They'd be like, yeah. But for me, this is therapy, you know, because I went through a lot of trauma. You know, that stuff is really trauma. When you have 16 people telling on you and half the people you don't know. And you know what I'm saying? That's really trauma. 15 years in prison. We were friends.

Jennifer. What happened? Yeah. Sorry, you got to go. Yeah. So I don't trust nothing, not even my shout on right about now. Honestly. So while you're going from, you're saying to go from, you know, state to state to state.

Hawaii, Puerto Rico. How long are you, you're flying in, you're renting a hotel. We're renting a hotel. How long are you staying in that area? Well, what we do is we'll drive out. We never, we'll drive out away from our hotel. We'll stay for like maybe a week, five days or whatnot because we have to go back to our children. All of us had children or whatever.

Well, I had a ruse, nine to five. And then after 5 o'clock, then we go shopping. And then we go to the spa and the hotel and just have a good time. Is your husband at home with your kids? With my son. They will be my grandparents. All right. So, where do your grandparents think you are?

You're on a business trip or they have? We're having fun because we always travel. Because my grandmother, she used to go to Jerusalem and travel. So, you know, she's not thinking that I'm out here doing crime. Right. She's not her, Ronnie. Right. No.

No one could ever. That one FBI charge, that was a mistake. That was a mistake. Yeah. She learned her lesson. She learned her lesson. No, it made me worse. So, all right.

So you're going, how often are you doing this? Like every month or? We would go sometimes, month. We would go like five times a month. We were getting money. Like, we would go to like Hawaii or Oklahoma. And mind you, sometimes I'll go on trips without my friends, my crew, because they have to take care of their kids. So that's when I started recruiting other people where they could go with me on a trip.

Maybe I'll take like three people with me. So I have a goal. So I probably want to go back home with $100,000 or $150,000. A lot of people know this is happening by this point, though. Friends are telling friends, like if something. Oh, it's all over. It's everywhere. Oakland.

I mean, are you concerned at all? No, I wasn't thinking. They would never tell. Yeah, they would never tell. You know, I put them on, I'm feeding them. They had they lived another lifestyle. They would never tell on me. I thought, allegedly, no.

I was there, I was their free time. I was their free ticket home. That was the only one still by the code. Me and another girlfriend. So I'm going to tell you something. Matter of fact, I'm going to send you a link. Okay. to Zach's story, the one where we just did his story, where we just talked to him, not the whole

multi-part story thing. Right. Just because, one, you'll love his story. Right. But two, he realized he'd been arrested over and over and over again for everything, checks, credit cards, everything. Right. He eventually realized, like, listen, men, these people are telling on me.

Like, every time they get caught, they're telling on me. Right. I'm going to jail. So he was like, how. How can I find people to do my scam that don't really know me? And, you know, and so you're going to love this. He was like, I mean, I need criminals that are willing to do this stuff, but I can't know, they don't, they can't see me. Right. So he goes and he gets a couple of phones, right?

Somebody goes and buys, you know, drop phones. Right. Throwaway phones, whatever we call them. Trrap phones. Yeah. So he grabs some of these phones. He's got the phones. And then he goes into the court, into court.

He goes and sits in court. And he said, we'd sit there all day with a piece of paper. And he said, this guy comes in. He's stealing bicycles. This guy comes in. He's, you know, robbing banks or grocery stores. You know, this person comes in, whatever. This guy comes in.

And he's like, they basically read your resume. Right. Like they'll say, you know, Mr. Johnson has been arrested twice for credit card fraud. He's been arrested for, you know, for check fraud. He's been arrested for this. We just picked him up on this fraud, Your Honor, and they go, okay. And they go, well, you know, we're going to set his bail at, you know, $10,000. And they, okay, can you make bail?

And you know, I can't make bill. Okay. And he'd be like, okay, yeah, Johnson, reg number. Here's the case number. Because they get the case number, everything. And then like, so he said by the end of day, he's like, I got like four or five people. Right. He said, I write them all letters and put like 50 bucks on their books.

So when they get the letter and I say, hey, man, I just put 50 bucks on your books. I need you to call me. I have a job for you. And he said, they would call me. He said, now, some of the guys, they just call up and they're just jerk off, right? Like, they're like, hey, can you do it three way? He's like, they don't even care about. They don't even want to hear what you have to say. They don't even know who you are. They don't know anything. He's like, so obviously they're idiots. So, but everyone out of five of me, he's like, you'll get two of them that will say, what is this? Yes, they will. That's the easiest place to get the people as a jail. Right. And he goes, he said, he'd say,

listen, I'm going to bond you out. I'm going to bond you out. When you get your property, he said there'll be a cell phone in the property. And he would have his wife going and say, hey, my brother is, you know, Reggie Johnson, and he's getting out, but he didn't have his cell phone. Can I put his – can you guys give him the cell phone in his property? They go, sure. They go grab it.

They stick it in his property. Smart. Which I didn't even know that was possible. What happens is he then he bonds these guys out. They get out. They go to get their property. There's a cell phone. And he told them.

be a cell phone. He gets a cell phone. They call the phone number. He would say, okay, you can go, I got a motel room for you, whatever. He put them in a motel room, you know, with a stolen credit card. They go down there. They take a photo of themselves. And they, but ID. They'd send it. He'd have somebody, he had a, wasn't a Mexican guy, but he had a guy that would make an ID for them. He'd send them, he'd get them the ID, buy him a plane ticket, and then fly them somewhere else. And he had a whole scam set up where they did it. And they would do much. multiple banks and they would get like 80, 90 grand. They'd give, he'd give them a third of whatever it was because he's like, it takes a third

to set it up. It doesn't. I didn't give everybody half all the time. Yeah. No. Sometimes I've, if they made 50 grand, I'll probably give them 15. Right. But I thought, honestly, I thought that was, I was like, and he's like, they've never seen

me. Never. So he'd have two or three people, put them together, fly him out, hit a bunch of banks, do this. And by the way, he never had them, like, remove the money. he would remove the money. And then they would go back and it's a whole different scam, but I can explain to you later, but it's brilliant. And he used to say because he said, he said most of these guys were good for at least one, sometimes two.

He said almost nobody did three because by that time they've got 40, 50 grand in their pocket. They've never had that much. He said they kind of implode, right? Like these are drug addicts and they fall apart. He said he'd get a phone call from the hotel where they were staying and they'd say that, you know, You know, hey, the police are here and they want to talk to you. And he'd be like, oh, okay. And he just, this is back when you had the SIM cards.

He pulled the SIM card out, throw it away. He's like, leave him in Oklahoma somewhere. Right. But I thought it was brilliant because these guys are stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars that he's getting. And they can't do, they don't know who he is. They don't know he's a ghost. It's pretty, that's pretty. I always thought that was very impressive.

I think that's brilliant. That is impressive. So your guys are, they're getting caught. Do you realize at some point that the feds are investigating? Investigating you? No. I didn't realize they were investigating me. I didn't know that they were building a case.

Actually, they didn't know who I was at that time. It took them a while. It took them a while because they never heard of that game before. How long did you go before you did realize? When I realized that the feds were on me was kind of like, at the end. Well, I mean, was this, is this a year, 18 months? Two years? No, this is like, I'm probably in the game, maybe like five years, five years in. Because, you know, the credit cards are getting limited with the pickpockening. So we use prepay cards. I start using prepay cards.

I will make a 1-800 number, get the back of the credit, get the back of the cards stamp with the 1-800 number. So when a card decline, I will let the person in the bank call the 1-800 number. Right. on the back of the card, which is making it a little bit easier. And I'll answer the phone while my people was in the bank. So we're using prepay cards. I started using prepay cards. It's insane.

It's just a piece of plastic with a number on the back of it. And they're going to give you like an eight-digit code. And that's before the chip. It wasn't no chip. Yeah. Well, yeah, this is back in the 90s, right? Yeah. 90s, early 2000s.

Oh, okay. I mean, were there any, did you ever get grabbed? Oh, I got grabbed for sure. In Oklahoma, I went in the bank. It was a trip. I went on with me and two of my friends. There were my close friends. Not the main friends, but outside the group.

I was just making friends. Of course. I'm the nice one. Everybody said you're the nice one, you know. So I took them with me to Oklahoma, and I think that we made like about 200,000 in two days or whatnot. So me being greedy. went against my old rule, you never double back the same bank. But I feel like the lady was too good for me not to go get another $9,000.

Mind you, I have like about $180,000 in the car. So at this point, I'm just being greedy. So I go back in the bank and I don't know what triggered this older woman, but I felt it in my stomach. And I said, you know what? It's okay. And me, I went against my old rule. You never park anywhere near the bank.

I parked right in front of the bank with a big window right here. You could see my license plate. You see what car I'm going into. She pushed the button on me. So that's when I said, go, go, go. She, something going on, something going on. Oh, my God. The feds were looking for me.

I thought we had got away. I had seen, like, it was a post office truck. And it was a lady with a ponytail, right? And I think we're going to the gas station. And I kept seeing this truck too much or whatnot. So she walked by, seeing me. I mean, you know, smiled at me or whatnot. Is this like the following day or something?

No, this is the same day because we're trying to get away. When I get into a situation like that, I want to go straight to the airport and leave. I don't want to go to the hotel. We have the cash. We're going straight to the, but my friend, she wanted to go to the hotel because she forgot her suitcase there or whatnot. We can get you a new suitcase. We could get you. But no, she was so adamant about this suitcase.

And, I think we had a minor with us as well this time. Oh, my God. So we're going to the hotel And I'm like, no, we're being, I feel like we're being followed, right? So they were like, no, you're tripping Ronnie or whatnot. I'm like, oh, okay. So we're going to the hotel.

I see other cars. I got caught like that twice in Seattle, but this is the Oklahoma. This is the first one or whatnot. So they're following me. You got that. I'm like, wait, is that a helicopter? And it was a helicopter there.

And I'm like, and I'm looking about it. I'm like, is there something because I'm not driving, You see all these cars. They were like, no one's fine. I'm like, bullshit. They're following us or whatnot. So I'm like, you know, we're trying to get aware or whatnot. It was too late.

They had already blocked us off and get out the car. And I said, you see that post office truck right there? That's the lady. She was the FBI agent, the whole freaking time. But we was in Oklahoma, and we all went to jail. They took the young minor to juvenile. Right. She had nothing to do with it or whatnot.

they had to take her somewhere or whatever. So it was Oklahoma. We eventually, I bailed out. They was trying to figure it out. Like, how did you get $75,000 on this card? They could not figure it out on one car. I was like, I don't know what you're talking about, but they couldn't figure it out.

So back then, the charges, they didn't really know what the charges with because they didn't know anything about that kind of crime. So I think at that time, I got 10 months in the feds. So you. I had to go in. I went to camp. Okay.

Yeah. And it just made me worse. Why? Did you meet additional fraudsters or you just felt like if this is the worst that happens? I could keep going. I'll just keep going. I didn't care. And yeah, I just, I built all my friends that was in jail out of jail.

They had to bail me out first. And then I got them out of jail. But, yeah, they gave me 10 months. I had to fly back and forth to Oklahoma. Yeah. So, and you're still married, husband? I'm still married. He's just, what's he saying?

He's just like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Like, you know what I'm saying? I just give him money just to shut up. You know what I'm saying? I just give him money. Like, let's go buy a house. So we're buying a house and buying cars.

I'm like, you want some jewelry? He's just like, he's a good guy. Right. He's just like, no. I'm like, you want a Rolex? And he was like, I want you to stop. Yeah. I want you to stop.

You know, he just wanted a good wife. Right. You know, the wife that I know how to be that my grandmother raised, but I turned to a demon. I'm not going to lie. I don't know who I was. That's what I'm like, it was like a out-of-body experience. You can't have no emotions.

You can't have any feelings. It's just like you just see money. You know how they say money is a root of all evil? Yeah. It is. So when you get out after 10 months, did you meet people in there that you were thinking I'm going to stay in contact with or you just went right back to the old group?

I went right back to the old crew because they were still out there eating. Right. Yeah, just because I'm in. jailed out. I'm going to stop. Right. They still, I didn't taught everybody again. You got this crew, that crew, this crew, that crew, it's just getting fucked up. Pretty much. You know what I'm saying? You got

people getting going to jail here. I don't know about. We know what's going on because these are my best friends. Right. So we know what's going on. They were like, Ronnie, why did you teach all these days? It was like, the game is fucked up. I was like, no, it's not. We could still eat. But with all these people getting locked up on this

side going off doing their own thing, jury, whatnot, thinking they, you know, they're the ones, but I'm really the one, but you know, but they still throwing me under the bus, throwing me under the bus. So your name just keeps coming up. My name keeps coming up. Even though they can't really do anything, you're in jail. Even when you're out, you're not doing anything yet. But every time they get busted, they're using it.

So the feds, the feds definitely have you, they got a file. As a queen pan. Yeah. Yes. But at this point, they just have your name as a, you're just in a file. They're waiting to get you. To sock it to my pocket big time. They tied in my ass.

Yes. So you start again. I get out after 10 months. I think that's when I lost my grandmother. Because, you know, yes, when I lost my grandmother, that's the way. And that just made me go harder. I don't know. Something about pain.

You know, pain just, the only thing that could ease it is money. I was going to say this, but it feels. You feel, I mean, I'm just speaking from my own experience. And I've said this before, like, there's just no feeling in the world like walking. This is my scam. Correct. I used to say there was just no feeling in the world like walking into the bank, giving them all fake documents. And come out on top.

Right. And then having them hand you a check for $250,000 and thank you for ripping them off. And you walk out. And I used to say, you feel like James Bond. Yes, it's like a rush. Just saying it, I just got like a tinkle, a little tingle. Yes. But I would feel like invincible.

I could do anything. Like this is, you feel totally. It's a real feeling of just 100% control. Yes, it is. And I think a lot of people or for the other things in my life, I probably didn't feel in control of. You know, so losing, losing your grandmother, like, you don't have any control. What are you doing? Nothing could save her.

You know, like, nothing, like, no, it's no amount of money. But this can make me feel better. But this can make me feel better. So it was like every time something happened, I go harder and harder and harder. And I'm just kicking my, like, I'm not realizing that I'm digging my ditch, like, deeper and deeper and deeper. You know, I'm just trying to, you know, replace the pain. Right. Basically.

Me and my girlfriends, we went on the trip. It was like about six of us, my same best friends or whatever. We're in Idaho or whatnot. And we hit all these banks, you know, we hit about a hundred. No, it's okay. We hit like a hundred banks in there or whatnot. So it's one particular bank I went to. No, my girlfriend was in the bank.

So, you know, I'm being greedy that day. I go next to her at the, where she's getting her money. counting to her, I go right next to her to the next bank teller next door and do the same thing, right? So before she hang up the phone or whatever, I'm like, yeah, I'm doing the cash events too. I'm being so sloppy. I don't know what we think. We was drinking, tripping. I was like, oh, yeah, can I, can you talk to her as well, right?

She do the cash advance or whatever. So mind you, she's walking out. I'm at the teller, getting my cash. So that's a big no-no. These two tellers, when I'm leaving, got a chance to talk. Right. So everybody come outside. It's like five of us in a car, this big car.

So they got the license plate down. We're like, oh, my God, they're coming and watching us or whatever. One of my girlfriends throw the ID out the car. We're getting rid of this stuff or whatnot. Not knowing the cops going to take our trail and get the ID or whatnot. So at this point, we're like going to Red Lobster. We think in a whole city after us. which literally the whole city is after us, right?

So everywhere we go, you got to think we're not knowing Idaho is really small. Right. And there's like a really tight-neck community or whatever. So everywhere we go, the store, he's looking at it's funny. We're trying to get out there and do the Greyhound. The airport is so far away, but, you know, the flights don't go out like a bigger airport. Right. So you have to stay a little bit longer.

So we're Googling on the phone. So we find a private jet that's like. like 30 or 40 miles out. So we go into a, we're like, oh, my God, they're after us. Everywhere we go, people look. We go to the Greyhound Station. I'm like, aren't there staring at it's funny? So we're spooked.

We think the whole state is after us at this point. So we're on a road. We drive like through like the desert to get to this private airport or whatnot. So we eventually leave. But that was like one of the most scariest moments ever. Everybody, my friends are drunk. She have to use the bathroom. They're arguing.

They're mad at me because I shouldn't have went in the bank while my other friend in the bank or whatever. I'm like, well, I just wanted to get $9,000 real quick. They was like, Ronnie, why? They were like, you're greedy. I'm like, you're right. I shouldn't have did it. We're all going to jail.

That one time we didn't go to jail, but eventually, when I caught my other cases, I don't know how they caught me, but they came to get me. That came to get me. Oh, that caught up with you? They caught with the regular stuff later. You know, they probably was investigating all these different states or whatnot. Mind you, like, you know, I might get in trouble or whatnot.

And they'd be like, is this you? I'd be like, absolutely not. Knowing that that's me, you could never ask me on a picture as me because I'm like, mm-mm. And they were like, are you sure that's not you? I'm like, no. That don't look like you? Mm-mm. You don't look like me.

Yeah. Well, so you go there, you go back to California. I go back to, we make it to California. Right. And then do you lay low for a little bit? Yeah, we lay low in California this time. We just lay low. Maybe, maybe like 30 days.

You know what I'm saying? Because we still have all this money on top of the money we already had. So we was like going a lot, but after Idaho, we kind of chill for a second, maybe 30 days or whatnot. Where do you go after that? Where do we go? Is it another successful trip? All our trips were successful. Right.

I mean, nobody got. arrested? Are these other people still getting arrested that you had taught? So these other people over here. Yeah. We're still. We're not. Okay. Over here it is. So when you got out, you never really reconnected with these other people. While my crew, my friends are resting, I'm, mind you, I'm the one that don't listen. I'm going over here. Like you guys want to go out of town? So I'm still going. They're chilling. I'm still going with different people. Okay. And You know, like one, two, three, four, five. So it's probably like five people behind her, five people behind her, five people behind her.

So the five people behind these five are teaching other people. So it's getting, you know, people getting caught and everything. So I'm not thinking that far in the game. But I would still go out of town. And I would like be getting double, basically, you know. So if you want to go to Seattle, because I got in trouble in Seattle, big time. Okay. What happened in Seattle?

Well, in Seattle, I was on a run from the Feds at this point. I mean, why are you just in general, they put together several cases and they're looking for you? Well, okay, it was one trip. My girl went, okay, I was in, I had a surgery or whatever. And this one particular trip they went on, I couldn't go to. And it was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Never go to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania under any circumstances. So it was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

They was out there doing their thing. ID was left behind. So the ID that was left behind, it was a California ID. It was tracked back to California. So that's when I think this is one of the states where they investigated and it was bringing back to California. They tracked us in California. But they didn't know exactly who or whatnot, but my girlfriend, she left the ID behind.

So that's how it tracked back to California. So I didn't know. This started the investigation. So there's like an FBI task force because there's just multiple states. It's too much going on. But they're connecting all the dots because it's the same M.O. It's the same. It's always a group of women.

They're always dressed nice. They're coming in. They run the same exact scam or it's the same thing. They have a card. They make a phone call. Somebody verify we get a code. The tellers are just completely taken for a ride. They have no idea that this is a scam until.

you know, whatever, that day or two days later, whatever, when nothing balances or they realize, oh, my God, we just gave away $45,000. Yes. So, but if you do it here, here, here, eventually, though, it doesn't matter. You know that all of these types of crimes go into a database. And so when they enter new crimes, similar crimes show up. And so they're saying, okay, well, this is identical. What are they doing?

These are multiple women, well-dressed, African-American, credit cards. They have fake IDs. Like, that's a big one, not. That's a very, like, that really limits the scope because fake IDs are not easy to get. No. So, although that combination brings it down very tight net. And so they're able to connect all of these things during that investigation. So I have no doubt that that ID that was connected just, it was probably, they probably

Plus, they've already got tons of people saying. That's telling, yeah, already. And it's all coming back to me. They just haven't, haven't built enough of a case to come and grab you. To come and grab me as of yet. And these, do these people that are cooperating, do they know your real name or they just know it's somebody? They know this, this woman.

You know how, well, females talk a lot. So they know it's somebody that taught the people up here. Do they just, they just know you, somebody just knows you as Ronnie? As Ronnie. As V. They call me V. Oh, best case scenario they know it is V. Yes.

Oh, yeah, that's why you haven't been grabbed. So you said eventually you go to Seattle. What happens in Seattle? Well, eventually I go to Seattle. No. No? Not Seattle's later when the Fas was after me. Seattle was my last Mohican.

Where do I go after Pennsylvania? Well, we definitely, we know that they've got a task force of some kind of They do have a task force. They're looking for you. Oh, we go to Tahoe. Okay. Mind you, we go to Tahoe. Yes, we go to town.

But we're sticking out too much, you know, these designer bags, this colorful hair. Like, we don't, you know, we go to small towns where they're, we go to slow places. You know what I'm saying? Like, it really don't know or whatnot. So we go to Tahoe. Mind you, we're getting them traveler checks. You could do a cash advance for traveler checks. I don't think they even sell traveler checks anymore because of me.

But we was going to American Express travel, you know, stores. to get traveler checks, but at this particular time, back then, AAA, I don't know if you have AAA insurance out here. Yeah. Okay, well, AAA insurance used to sell traveler checks, you know, because they had Disneyland. You could buy Disneyland tickets or whatnot. So we'll go get like $20,000 worth of travelers checks.

We didn't know that it was on the lookout for us at this time because we didn't hit so many, we're hitting not only hitting banks. We're getting traveler checks. We're getting jewelry. We're getting diamonds. We're getting clothes. we're getting money. We're spending everything, but the money we made or whatnot.

So this particular time, I go to Tahoe or whatnot, and my sister goes inside AAA to get $10,000 or whatever. So it always, it was already an alert on us. So soon as she walked in, they must have pushed the button. The police was coming up. So I told everybody to run and leave me, you know. And was I running from Pennsylvania?

No, I was, I know I had a warrant. I think I knew I had a warrant in Pennsylvania. And I was running. I was always running. That's why I never wanted to let me go because I have rabbit in me. I'll go. I'll never turn myself in, you know? Right.

So they kept me at this time I had braces on. So I knew I had a warrant. So I was, I cut my fingernailet, my, what is this? I cut my, you know, you do your fingerprints? Your fingerprints, yeah. I cut this off. I bit it off. So when they go to do my finger, it wouldn't come up as me, you know?

So at this particular time, I was under a Jane Doe. So what they had to give me a bell. But what happened was, it's my mom called my cell phone. The police called my mom back and told my mom that I found this phone on a freeway. And I'm trying to figure out, do you know who phone this is? My mom, she don't know. She's like, yeah, that's my daughter, Veronica Henderson. Is she okay?

So they came back to the hospital. Remind you, I told everybody to leave me at Tahoe. I just had surgery, so they had to take me to the hospital because I act like I was injured trying to really escape from the hospital. That's what I was trying to do because I was a runner or whatnot. So they came to the hospital. They was like Veronica Henderson. We know who you are.

We just talked to your mom. We called your mom on the self. I was like, do you really just do you really just do. that or whatever. So that's crazy because they let my mom come to the hospital to come and see me because it was pretty much over at that point because I had to be extradited to Pennsylvania. I didn't know that until I got to Placer County. Placer County is by Tahoe. That's their county jail. So when I went to Placer County Jail for what we did in Tahoe, the AAA store, it was this big old stack of files. And it was just, it was all these guys coming up. And I didn't

know there were FBI agents. there or whatnot. I say I'm in trouble. I say I'm in trouble. So I guess everything, all this group of people was telling on me, you know, so they're trying to connect the dots. So that's when I found I had a, it was a, is it a jinx indictment or something like that? A jinx indictment? It was some type of indictment. Superceding indictment. Yes. Superceding indictment where I had to be extradited to Pennsylvania. Okay. So that's where that started. So you have, you have indictments in multiple states. Everywhere.

Everywhere at this point. Do they, I want to say they call it like a rule 11. Do they consolidate them? Eventually that they did because it was too much. You'd be doomed. Yeah. You can't go. Every time you would be re, if you'd have to go somewhere else, you'd be, the sentences

would start to stack and your criminal history points would go off the chart. You'd just be done. Yeah, I'd be done. I know for $80,000. I know a guy they got like 24, 25 years for 80,000. That's nothing. Like, like, 84. Like, how do you get 23, how do you get 23 years for $80,000?

Wow. This criminal history was off the chart. Oh. That's it. So that's what happens. It starts stacking. So you've got to consolidate them. So that's what they did in Pennsylvania.

But in Pennsylvania, that's when, you know, they show me all the people that I was telling on me. You know, I remember the people her, her, her and her because she worked for her. And I'm just looking like, really? 16 people. That's when they showed me the pyramid. I'm at the top. You can't go to trial. No.

You can't do nothing. Just, you know, so I'm like, you know, mind you, I'm not very educated on the crime, the crime that I was doing. I'm just doing it, you know, so I'm not very smart. I'm book smart, but not as far as the, was it, the crime or one. I don't know where I'm trying to think about, think of it. You're saying you're not aware of the severity of the, of the, of the, of the crime. Sentence connected to that crime. That I could get.

I wasn't thinking like that. I mean, bank fraud alone, you can get 20 years? Yes. 20 or 30? Yes, they said 20. Okay. So when they told me that, I'm thinking like, okay, I'm about to get 20 years or whatnot. So that's not true.

For bank fraud, you can get 34 for institutional crimes like credit card fraud or they access device fraud. That's right. It's 20 years. 20 years. Yes. So they told me I could get up to 20 years. That's what they say. because I would think they could have hit you with bank fraud too.

It was trying to RICO. Okay. That wouldn't be good at all. No. We wouldn't be talking right now. No, we sure wouldn't because I didn't know RICO was. You know, I was like, who? And I was just like, you don't want that.

I was like, okay. You know, we're young or whatnot. So. How old were you at this time? I was like, at that time, maybe like 24, 23, 24. How did you not much trouble at 24? Just living on the edge. And you've already been to, you're already.

been on probation and gone to prison. Yes. Yes. It was, yeah, that's not like today I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever. Like never. I'm traumatized, actually. But that's when my brother got murdered. It's when I was in.

My brother came to see me in Pennsylvania. And once he got back to Oakland, California, my brother was murdered. So it was just like. Is this a drug? Was it a drug? Like you said he got set up. Was he set up for drugs or was it? I believe my brother, he was an entrepreneur, but my brother did sell drugs in other things.

You know what I'm saying? And you said it was kind of a setup. It was a setup. His friend set him up. He got a phone. He was helping my mom. After putting their groceries in the house, my brother got a phone call to go to 96th Street, C Street. That's in Oakland.

And when he got out the car, about six people, like, yeah. Okay. So you got that news in the lockout? Went out. you and went out and I just went mute. So I didn't really care. I was, they were, my family, my grandfather was trying to put up property, you know, to get me out or whatnot. But they did have something called passionate release.

Compassionate release. So I had to, they was like, well, you're going to give it to 20 years. I said, whatever you're going to give me, just give it to me. I didn't care. I just wanted to go to my brother's funeral. I missed my brother's funeral, but eventually they did. But mind you, I went mute. So I wouldn't talk to anyone.

Because me and my brother's really close. I was my brother's keeper. no matter what, like, you know. But did they allow you to get out on bond? They let me get at, yeah, they did let me go on compassionate release because I was mute. At this point, they thought they'd have psychiatrists and stuff coming there, but they did let me go, but I got sentenced first.

Okay. I got sentenced first. So they had to turn myself in. Allowed to turn yourself in. Yes, I didn't. I ran. Oh, my God. I ran.

I ran. You're the reason that. But I couldn't get bonds. I ran. I'm surprised they gave you bond. I mean, probably as a... They didn't want to. Yeah, I was going to say it sounded like there was a lot of different things going on.

Because typically people that are caught with false identities or using them. They don't want to give them anything because they're like, well, we may never seen this person. My father had to put up property as well. So I had a good attorney. They felt like she'll come back to them. She's not going to do her grandparents like that. Right, right. That wasn't true.

No. They ended up taking his house, but. still, you know, I eventually got caught and we rectified the problem. But, um, so what happened when you say you took off? My brother had got murdered and I just was like I wasn't, I felt like my family needed me more than I needed them. And I wasn't thinking about me. I was thinking about my grandfather, you know, and I miss my, I was really angry that I missed my brother's funeral. Had I had gotten out before my brother's funeral, I probably would have turned myself back in. But I just was like,

I missed my brother's funeral and I just cut my ankle mine and drop and I ran and that's when I was really on the run. Like are you still married at this point? The husband. You're still married? No. We're separated. Okay. He's a good guy.

So I'm pretty much gone with your life. And I didn't date it. Floyd Mayweather, a couple of famous basketball players. I was all over the place, you know. Okay. Well, you say you had already been sentenced. I was sentenced at that time I got five years.

Oh, okay. Well, for 48 months. They didn't give me a lot of time there. So I was supposed to self-surrender in Dublin to do my time. At that point, I'm not thinking like 48 months is nothing. I'm thinking like, I'm about to go do 10 years. That's how I'm looking at the 48 months. Right.

I'm not looking like that's really a slap on the wrist. Yeah. Everything you've done, go turn yourself in. But I wasn't thinking I cut my monitor off and I kept, hustling. And that's when the Seattle situation came in play. So what happened

in Seattle? Well, I couldn't go to my grandparents' house. I could barely see my children. The feds was really closing in on me. So you know, I have my baby sister or whatnot. So I needed her to get a couple

of people to go on this because I needed money. I'm running out of money. Right. Right? So I'm needing my sister to go bus a play for me or whatnot. And I shouldn't have put her in that position. But I needed her because that's my sister. That's the only person I could trust in the world is my sister because my brother's gone. So she in Seattle or whatever.

And she was like, sister, I need you. And I'm like, I can't get on the air. Mind you, I'm like, I can't get on this airplane because the feds is looking for me. So back then you could use a fake ID to go to the airport. It's not like it is today. Right. So I go to the airport, Seattle. they were looking for me.

It was an FBI agent on the airplane with me. But I had shook him. I didn't know he was on there, but I had shook him for some reason or whatnot. So, you know, we hit all these banks in Seattle. One of the last bank we went to, the lady pressed the button, and that's when it was on a crack. And we went to the mall in Seattle.

I'm throwing cash in Victoria's Secret trying to give it away. I see this FBI agent following me. me, literally following me, trying to act like he's not. He's looking. So I run into a Victoria Seeker, trying to run out the back door, trying to call a cab, trying to get away, want my sister to be with me. We left the other girls that we had work. And we're getting the cab.

We're getting the cab, trying to get away. I'm like, go this way, go that way. So we make it to the hotel. I shook the FBI agents this time or whatnot. So I'm like, come on, let's get our bath. And then so when we get into the room, the phone rang. nobody says nothing on the phone. So I'm trying to jump out the window.

You know how you could, the ladder is on the side. The ladder's on the side. How you could go to the roof. I'm like, come on, let's jump. She's like, sister, we're going to kill ourselves. I'm like, let's jump or whatever. So they think I'm crazy, but I think like that or whatever. I'm like, okay, we're going to, I said, so who you think that was?

I'm like, that's the police. Yeah, just make sure you're in the room. They're making sure we're in the room and you answered the phone, right? So it's only one way in, one way out. So we finally get out the hotel. It's this guy that passed by me. You know, Seattle was windy. So his jacket opened up, I see a badge right there.

I say it's over. So we get to a car. We shook him again. We shook them again. Pass them. Went back. We got in a car. We'll just drive.

I'm just telling his cab driver. Drive here, drive there. We get to, I think we was in, is it not C-Tag, but I forgot what the mall is in Seattle. So they're on us. You have all these cars, follow them. You can see like a, remember the L-TD? Those big L-TD cars, you know back then in half-tenths.

You see all these FBI agents in the, I'm looking like they're after us. So we're trying to get away, go here, go there in the cab driver. I'm after car driver. He wants $20,000. I'm like, go faster. I'll give you all my money or whatnot. Trying to hide money behind the seat of the car. helicopter

they all the cops surrounded the cab or whatnot and boom it was over with I was going down and that's when they gave me

11 years for that on top of what I already had that's how I got 15 years oh my God yes I mean and that's when I was done I you know what

the 11 but the 11 it's funny because like the 11 really it's for running the 11 you get two more years for running but I don't think I deserve that 11 years.

Right. I didn't got all this. You got five years for all the other stuff. And they don't even know everything I did. It was a, it was in big millions. But I got 11 years for Seattle because they were tired of me. So the total, your total sentence was like 16, 15, 16 years? It was 14 and a half years.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So no bond. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So you had to wait. So you probably what?

You're in the lockup for another year? Yeah, I was in CTAG. I was there for a year. But mind you, I got sentenced. So I'm going on all these writs. Yeah. I'm going to all these writs. So as soon as I get to Seattle, you know, the other Pennsylvania know that I'm in jail.

So they come and get me before I could even go to court in Seattle. They came to get me quick. So they took me to Dublin. As soon as I got to Dublin to serve my 48 months, they made me come back to get, you know, I had to fight a case. in Seattle. That's what I was going to, that's what I was saying. Yeah, but they can't stop the Ritz.

Right. Do you know how many Rits I went in? Idaho, Pennsylvania, Chicago. Like, and then that's when they finally said, no, we have to consolidate this together. It's too much movement. In Seattle. So my big case was Pennsylvania and my biggest was Seattle. Yeah, you're going to end up with 100 years.

Never get out. All right. So you end up getting 14 years or you did 14 years? I did. I ended up, no, I didn't end up doing the whole 14 years. But I got 48 months here. They gave me 11 years here. Well, 48 months and 11 is 15 years.

Yeah. So you know how you get the, how many days you get off a year? Oh, you get, no, yeah, but your sentence. Yes, I was sentenced. I'm saying your sentence is 15 years. Yes. Okay. And obviously you get, you get good time.

Yes. So you get 15% off that. Yes. So you end up with. You get two years off of the drug program. Yeah. A year and a halfway house. Well, year and a year halfway house.

So, you did, are you doing R-DAP? My lawyer kind of got some, I think she got 14 months off because I think they sentenced me wrong and they vacated like 14 months of my sentence or something like that. So what did you end up doing like nine or 10? Like 10 and some change. So you did Ardap? I did Ardap, yes. Horrible.

Horrible. But, yes. Horrible. Yeah. So. You know R-DF is, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's phony.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think you still learn something. You do learn something. But half the people in the ARDAP program was on, the teachers were on drugs. Oh, really? Yes. Debbling, you know, Dublin, was in a very good place. You know, it was a lot of officers there, raping women there.

Right. You know. Well, you know, they had a huge lawsuit in Coleman at the women's camp. That's why it's like it's now it's a men's camp. Yeah, but Dublin was first. That, Dublin was, we didn't go through nice things there. Right. Like, honestly.

And then, yeah. My wife was at Coleman. Oh, really? During the whole thing, like, the lawsuit where there's like 12 women, like she knows, like eight of them, you know? And so, and one of the officers that was sued actually killed from the parking lot. I remember that. Yeah. I remember that.

I was locked up when he killed him in the parking lot. Yeah. His name was, shoot. I forget his name. He shot itself. Yeah, I remember. But I used to see him all the time. Nice guy.

He's a little slow. But, you know, he was one of those officers that was just there to like. I mean, the chaplain for crying out loud was touching us. Oh, okay. I didn't see. Yeah. I was thought that this was a guy that you, he just seemed like the nicest guy. All of you did.

No, someone was assholes. Yeah. Yeah, some of them were assholes. But there was nice ones there and those was the worst ones. Yeah. My, Jess said that my wife. She said, like she knew girls that are having, like, that are fighting over the, wanting to sleep with the guy. Because they're bringing them food.

They're giving them special treatment. Because they don't know any better. Right. But she said one of the, she said one of the COs, like he said, she said, I only got tried one time. And it was like she went to turn in some keys or something. And the CEO kind of grabbed her hand. Grab her hand and like held it for a minute. And she was like, uh, uh, uh, and she was like, nah.

She put the keys down. But, you know, these guys are bringing them food from out. And they don't, people out here don't realize how. Cigarettes. But people out here think, like, for a cell phone, yeah, it's in prison. You can talk to your kids. You can talk to your friends. Yes.

You can talk to your mom and dad. Communication. Yeah, you don't know how huge that is. No, it's big. And, you know, it's the same thing where we're like getting, getting your name called for mail call out here. That means nothing. But in there.

It means everything. That gets you through it a few more days at hope. Yeah. So did you do all your time at Dublin? They sent me back to Seattle. I did like two years in Seattle. And I had to eventually go back to Pennsylvania because remember I skipped bond or whatnot. But the judge said he wasn't going to give me no more time for that because he understood what I was going.

You know, he said, he said, you know, when I let you out, I knew you was going to come back because you're brother. Right. He said that. He said, but I let you go anyway. And you did exactly what I knew you was going to do. But he said, I'm not going to give you no more time. Even the judge in Seattle, he said, I really feel sorry for you because everyone told on you.

Right. Everyone sitting right there last week. He said, but I have no, he said, it's out of my hands. I have to give you 11 years. That's the first time I screamed. Because I'm not a crier. Right. But I broke down.

Because I knew I had time to do over here and time to do over here. and my children was going to suffer. You didn't think you were ever getting, that must have felt like an attorney. Like I'll die in prison. Yes. I'm going to die in prison. That's what I thought.

I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to die. You know, when you going through your trials and tribulations in life, you don't think like your grandparents is going to pass away. You know what I'm saying? Or your mom's going to die or your father's going to pass away. You don't think that. You think everyone's going to be in the same position they was. And there, when you get out of prison, I lost my whole family.

I lost. it wasn't worth it to me. It's funny because so many people will, you ever hear the people that are like, oh, you know, was it worth it? Like, yeah, because it made me the man I am today. No. No, I always say it's not, it wasn't worth it.

Yeah, it wasn't worth it. Not to me, I lost my home. You know, and my family was my tribe. And I never had to do it. You know, we were okay. But I was just being Ronnie doing my thing or whatnot, but no. And that's why I say when I decided to come out and tell my story, I want to heal. I need to heal because I'm holding too much inside.

You understand? Yeah. I lost my grandmother, my grandfather, my brother was murdered. I lost my father and my mother. And that was my whole tribe. So I just want to heal from that and be normal. And your kids grow up without you. And your kids, and they suffered the most. I have a son that's a wonderful kid. He's awesome. You know, he's working. He was playing football in college. Like, he have a good dad. See, his dad. See, his dad. my kids, they don't have the same father. But my last husband, the one that I was driving him crazy with all this money, he took care of my daughter. So my son, so I talk about my son.

I don't talk about my son a lot because I feel like he was okay. I talk about my daughter because she suffered the most. Did he bring her to come to you? He did. He brought her and other people did bring my daughter to come see me. But she suffered the most. So my thing is my children, they suffered. When did you get out?

What year? I got out in 2016. Okay. Yeah. What did you do when you got out? When I got out of prison... Did you go to the halfway house? I did go to the halfway house.

I had to do a year and a half in a halfway house, and I had to do like eight years on ankle monitor. Wow. And when I was in prison, I started a fitness line, which is called Lollipot Fitness. I started that, and that's what I have today. Lollipot Fitness. I have a brand. It's called Lollipot. Lollipop fitness.

Oh, pop, okay. Yeah, lollipop fitness. Yeah, like waist trainers and fitness gear and protein shakes because I work out a lot. Okay. Yeah. And then I got my CDLs. I started a dump truck. First, I was running box trucks.

So I was running box trucks during pandemic. And I learned how to do government contracting. I learned that. I taught myself that on Zoom or whatnot during pandemic. And eventually after, you know, the pandemic and, um, COVID had slowed down. The money had got slow. So I got into box truck.

I mean, I got into dump trucks. So now I'm into dump trucks and water trucks now. Okay. So you rent out the trucks where they like go through truck. I have my CDLs. I'll drive. I love driving. Okay.

Yeah. It's fun. Like, you know. Okay. But I mean, do you also rent them out? Yes, I do. Well, they're on like a port. You know, they're on like, I have a government contract, which, you know, you get paid just, you know, to do

hazardous waste and, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, it's waste. And, you know, my water truck, you know, you have to keep the asphalt wet so we could do it from the ground to the dump truck. So, yeah, that's what I do. And I do rip my trucks out, too, on the base, an Army base in San Francisco. Okay. And when did Trapp Queens come out? Contact you. No, when do they contact?

And how did they contact you? Well, Trapp Queen had contacted me four years ago. I wasn't ready. Okay. Because how I was raised, I was never raised to telling yourself. So that's how my father raised me. Well, they already got you, though. I know.

But, you know, like, you know, my father was my everything. He kind of, like, walked me through life. You understand? So, you know, my father, he was a gangster. Right. So, you know, I was like, well, I can't tell him myself. You know, my dad going to be rolling over his grave, you know? So that's how, you know, that's how I was raised or whatever.

So eventually, I talked to this OG guy, and he, you know, He was like, V, if that's not your lifestyle anymore and you could maybe turn that into something different or let people know your story and maybe they won't make the choices that you made, I think you should do it. And plus, I think you're going to heal from it because you're holding on to too much of your past with hurt. So that's when 2000, when they contact me again in 2003, that's when I decided to do it. I mean, what afterwards is anybody, were you contacted by any, by producers? Are you writing a book? I am right. I've written a book and my book is almost complete.

It's called profit, loss, and the greater good. Okay. So my book is almost complete. And producers have been contacting me. They want to give me an episode or a movie. Okay. So, you know, I have to give me a manager to negotiate because I really don't know this lane like that. Right.

Yeah. Are they going based off of your book or just based off of... They're waiting for my book to be complete so I can read it, but right now they're going based off of my life. All right. But they want to read my book. Well, what is the book about? Is it about your life?

It's about my life starting off as a child up until I jumped off the porch. My relationships with my parents, my relationships with my grandparents, what I do in between, you know, how did I learn a game or whatnot? and how's it in the end? So that's what's called profit, loss, and the greater good. I want to give a shout out to Bella, to BRB, Nisha, to my best friend Jemay Alder, Mayback May, and to Charlita and to my children on this process for helping me heal. Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching.

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Dot CEO. Okay. My Instagram is Lollipop underscore CEO. We're going to leave all of those links in the description. and check them out, follow. I appreciate you guys watching. Please do me a favor. Consider joining our Patreon.

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