Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Beating a 35-Year Sentence: Smuggler’s Insane True Story

Episode Date: January 25, 2025

Joe Tarasuk’s shares his journey that included time in a mental hospital, being a major East Coast drug dealer, and involvement in a cult trying to revolutionize the world through music. After his arrest in Georgia in 1986, Joe was sentenced to thirty-five years in prison. Despite many challenges after his release, the Lord placed a mission in Joe’s heart to reach out to men and women like himself who were caught in devastating cycles of addiction and shame. Joe Book https://www.amazon.com/Against-All-Odds-Miracle-Recovery/dp/098917350X CrossRoads Freedom Center https://www.crossroadsfreedomcenter.org Follow me on all socials! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrime Do you want to be a guest? Send me an email here: [e-mail] Do you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrime Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8 Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438 The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402 Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1 Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel! Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here: Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69

You learn how to be a good drug dealer by experience. Nobody can teach you. And it's quite thrilling. Every cell in your body is trying to understand and be calm. And my reality was so far out there. I could not even function and got put in a psych ward. I was, you know, shackled legs, arms, hands, put me in front of a grade school. And it really let me see of the bondage I was in.

I knew I was being watched. And, you know, I had the DEA, the FBI, and the CIA all, all. around what I was doing. So my reputation started traveling back in Bolivia. We got a guy in the United States that he pays and we trust him. This is like the president of a country and one of our allies. And then Reagan sends in troops to arrest Noriega. And there's a huge gun battle. I would die before I would tell on him. I didn't get in trouble. I didn't get shot. I mean, my friends were getting shot. I mean, I had no fear. Drove down parked and was walking in this Alley and there was a beautiful Bolivian

looked like a model. And I said, okay, this has got to be a setup. Hey, this is Matt Cox and I'm here with Joe Tarsik and we're going to be talking about his story. Can I say drug smuggler? Yeah, interstate transportation is what I got, uh, uh, or not, you know, or narcotics is what I got arrested for.

But yeah, drug smuggler, let's go. Yeah, all the above. Okay. All right. Um, do you want to go with that? Yeah. Is that good? Yeah.

Okay. I was going to say I was going to redo it, but, um, uh, yeah, let's go with drug smuggler. Uh, well, it's funny. You know, it's like, people say, you know, oh, you were arrested for mortgage fraud. Now it's bank fraud. Like, you know, there is no mortgage fraud. So same thing. you're giving the technical name, but most people would just say smuggler.

One, I appreciate you coming out, obviously. Let's just start at the beginning. Like, you know, where were you born? Your parents, brothers, sisters, anything like that? I was born in Washington, D.C. I have two older sisters. Dad was a military man. My mom was considered the debutante.

And we lived on 17th in Upshur Street in Washington, D.C., until I was three. You know, dad in the military didn't have a lot of money. Then we moved to Silver Spring in Maryland. But, you know, coming from a house that had a maid was my grandmother was one of the wealthiest ladies in Washington, and her husband died when I think he was 33 and my mom and the family lived with my grandmother before we moved out to Silver Spring. How old were you? I was three years old when we moved to Silver Spring. So that was...

But your father was still in the military? He was still in the military. Didn't retire. He went on to... Got out of the military, got a job. When we were in Silver Spring, it was a very... The house cost them $15,000. It was at an end of a dirt road.

You know, they didn't have much money. And he was trying to support the family with that military income, didn't work and they were always fighting and it was a only a two-bedroom house and um my bedroom was in i was actually stayed in a crib in my mother and dad's bedroom until i was almost six years old my sisters lived in the other room in the house very poor house very poor at that time how many sisters you said two sisters so it's you and two sisters yeah and my dad came from a very poor background his father was from russia they lived in upper state new york ever had running water. His dad went back to Russia when he was 15 years old. He joined the

Navy to take care of his three brothers and his mother. It was just a real bad, bad scene. My grandfather could never speak English and very, he was for my, he was a Russian Cossack and very rough. My grandmother, all the stories were that he used to beat her. It was very dark, if you want to call it dark. So you went to high school? Yeah, yeah, let me go back and just talk about my grandmother's side you know and my my mother's side was very wealthy and it was like two two opposites my mother growing up very in very wealthy family because of my grandfather and we'll get down the road a little bit more about him and then you know my father being very poor them trying to work together back in Maryland now and now we're I'm at three years old

in Silver Spring Maryland and at about age I guess third grade is, uh, went to a little school right in that little neighborhood. And that's when they realized I had a problem with reading and writing. And that was when, uh, really the, the challenges started in my life. Okay. You had, uh, some kind of a learning disability. Yeah, well, they call it dyslexia now, but, but, but back then, there was no cure. Nobody knew. They thought there was something wrong. You know, why the kid's a smart kid. Why can't he read and write? So that was kind of, Same thing. He's got a good vocabulary. He communicates well. Yeah. Yeah. What's the problem? Yep. Yep. Yep. When I was a kid, I could take an engine apart and put it back together, but I couldn't read and write. So something was off. But so that's kind of where it was when I was young. You know, mom and dad didn't get along and continue to fight. And one traumatic thing that happened when I was growing up when my father kind of grew up in that, Same thing like his dad would yell and scream.

You know, my mom would hold me when I was young, when they would fight so my father wouldn't hit her. Right. So that's how I grew up for my first six years from age. Really, it started age three to age six. And then the, you know, we were kind of in like a farmland back then. It was not very built up. And, you know, I had nobody ever watching over me or, you know, when I went, home nobody said help him with his homework nobody it was kind of like i was on my own because of all

their problems and then uh at age seven uh i got went out to a barn and was playing with the kids and some older kids came out and the first time i got molested by a young man and that was uh the reading and the molestation uh was a traumatic and the way i brought up was brought up you know with the yelling and screaming kind of turned me into a shell of a person and just not confident and really struggling just socially in school. And they sent me to a special school called Hillcrest in Washington. They had to borrow money from my grandmother, and that was a big deal. And it was an hour drive to the school and back home, and that's when all the arguing really started with my mother and father. So that's where that out of line growing up and and that's where that kind of led

to. Okay. Did you, did you graduate from that school? I graduated from that school and started learning more about my grandfather and as I was growing up, you know, my family would really, he really worship him and, you know, the money was still with my grandmother. Even though it was years that he died, he, and in the book that I gave you, there's a picture of the mansion he built on 16th Street. He was one of the richest men in DC, but he started smuggling liquor from Canada

when he was probably 20 years old. And his dad was the chief of police in Washington. So they were really, they were the little mob in Washington. And that was, my grandmother had four, daughters and my mother was the first one to have a boy so they named me after my grandfather so who was joseph mar and i was the first joseph boy so i was really looked at to uh kind of hold the torch you know in my mind i was grown up to be like him and so that's how this all started forming those years of resentment and heading towards the the problems with the drugs and how that ended up i really

couldn't adjust to understanding about reading and writing and getting a regular job, you know. But high school was, I had a lot of fun in high school. Right. So did you, I mean, did, like, did the reading get better or did they just kind of? It got worse and it didn't get any better. I went to the special school and I, they still passed me. I went to another special school in Wheaton. That's a little farther away about, and supposedly I was making progress after the one in D.C. And then when I got to seventh grade, my sisters all graduated.

My one sister was a homecoming queen, very prominent in the school, and the teachers seemed to like me, but I still got put in a special class. But in gym class, one of the football coaches recognized that I was pretty athletic. And so that was really my key

to going through school without ever learning how to read and write. Right. So I ended up lettering nine times, football, wrestling, and track. I was athlete of the year, my senior class. They said I would be the most successful athlete. And that was a big thing in me. I mean, I was a very introvert then.

Of course, the girls and the attraction of sports led to a lot of fun. And in my senior year, I started smoking pot. And that was really the doorway. Got a wrestling scholarship to Montgomery College. They paid for my books. And that was, you know, the first semester, my fear when I grew, when I got up in the morning, I was so fearful of somebody calling on me and having to speak in front of anybody. It was like torment.

And so after wrestling, class or the season I said I can't do this and so I was working as a plumber on the side actually started that when I was 16 like a summer job to get ready for sports and it was hard work and one of the guys in the neighborhood that I went to high school with was a really cool guy I had a brand new car, black guy, Afro. And, you know, I was in a shop class, and I used to wash his car and drive it around the parking lot. So that was a big deal.

But we became friends. And actually, his brothers, who I'm visiting with right now, his little brother, what was the alfalfa and what was the other guy? Buckwheat. Buckwheat and alfalfa. That was our nicknames when we started the drugs. Um, you know, we had a, we really got along good. Like, he was like the coolest, hippiest guy you could ever imagine. Uh, but he got, he got arrested. Uh, in my, my first year out of high school, he got arrested for bank robbery. And what year was this? That was 1972. I think he got a rat. We, I graduated in 1971. And, and but we were friends since 10th grade, you know, even when I wasn't doing drugs, he was a cool guy. And, um, it was another, him and another. Um, he was another. Um, he was another. Um, he was another. Um, him and another. Um, he was. Um, he was. Um, um, he was. Um, him and another. Um, he was. Um, he was. Um, him and another. He was guy after I graduated from high school a little bit of pot and you know they had a party and you know

I started doing cocaine I tried cocaine and that that became my best friend right that made you feel confident I could be socially accepted everywhere I went when I had that cocaine and that's where it really started and you know when I got to wrestling and left I said man you know I was I was captain of the football team, captain of the wrestling team. I had a gift, you know, and I would, even in sports, instead of telling people what to do, I would show them what to do. I would be a leader in example. Right. And so I, and this is a perfect opportunity. I think I've been bred for this because of my grandfather. I said, okay, well, I started, first started getting high and just being a regular street dealer, you know, and then the cocaine became a little bit.

it more important and then I could see how I could take this bag of something and cut it a little bit and get my stash and also a lot of new friends. I thought they were friends at the time, but that was a way for me to feel like I was somebody. You know, I could feel confident because I had no confidence. In sports, I had confidence, but that only lasts so long. You know, that is that's a real high, you know, the feeling sports gives you. It's good for your body. and you know but I recognized I took all my trophies and everything threw them in the trash and said I know this isn't going to be my future but so that's kind of where it started before it got to the where it ended up so how to so how did so that that continued to just you know what bloom and well you know well Dale was in jail and I I how long did he get he got I think his first, I think it was three years, and they sent him to a camp up in West Virginia, a Morgantown, West Virginia. And, you know, then we started doing some acid. And, you know,

so I took some acid, drove up to West Virginia and had a visit with him. And I had some cigars, broke him down, put some cocaine in there. And, you know, it was bold enough to walk in there and give him that pack. And, you know, he got it and took it behind the bars, and he got high. And, but he, while he was in jail, there was a guy, and I'll just say his first name, Louis, from New York, and his dad was in the garment section in New York. He was the mafia garment section, and they were selling heroin. So, of course, I had never done heroin, but Dale got this connection, and it was the, I said, well, let's go, when he got out, I went up there to New York. I mean, up to West Virginia, drove him home, and we were tight. You know, we were brothers, and we ended up going back to New York

and visiting East Houston Street. You know, here I'm a white guy and a black guy, and we're going to a Spanish Harlem or wherever that was, and, you know, two guys met us with guns, you know, off packing. It walked us down the block, and then we got the okay on the first floor, and then, you know, every floor they had, they had guys sitting at the windows, And then when we got up to his room, you know, his dad, which was the guy, I'll just tell you this story. It's amazing. This makes me think of Frank Lucas from the American gangster.

Buried by the U.S. government and ignored by the national media, this is the story they don't want you to know. When Frank Amadeo met with President George W. Bush at the White House to discuss NATO operations in Afghanistan, No one knew that he'd already embezzled nearly $200 million from the federal government. Money he intended to use to bankroll his plan to take over the world. From Amadeo's global headquarters in the shadow of Florida's Disney World, with a nearly inexhaustible supply of the Internal Revenue Services funds, Amadeo acquired multiple businesses, amassing a mega conglomerate. Driven by his delusions of world conquest,

he negotiated the purchase of a squadron of American fighter jets and the controlling interest in a former Soviet ICBM factory. He began working to build the largest private militia on the planet, over one million Africans strong. Simultaneously, Amadeo hired an international black ops force to orchestrate a coup in the Congo while plotting to take over several small Eastern European countries. The most disturbing part of it all is,

had the U.S. government not thwarted, his plans, he might have just pulled it off. It's insanity, the bizarre, true story of a bipolar megalomaniac's insane plan for total world domination. Available now on Amazon and Audible. So anyway, we got in there, you know, and I was fearless. I don't know how, why, you know, but here we got a black guy and a white guy and they could just put us in the, they could have thrown us in the river thinking we were trying to set him up because Louis just got out of jail and then his dad drives up in a limousine, just like TV, white hair, comes in

and he wouldn't go upstairs until they got the okay that I was okay because they thought, you know, of course, everybody, if you're a drug dealer, you're looking at everybody. Everybody's going to set you up. But they came upstairs, and that was the first time I ever did heroin.

They chopped it up, showed us how to cut it. It was brown. You know, there's a formula they had. I forget how they, mix the drugs and put it on the stove and cut the brown heroin. I think it was brown sugar or something. And then, you know, I did a big line. And like I said, I never even did heroin before.

And Dale did some. So by the time we got back to the train station, Dale could not even see. He couldn't hardly walk. And somehow the heroin didn't affect me like it did him. So I put the heroin in my sock and, you know, we left him in the train station. He was in there, took all his clothes off. sweating so bad he couldn't see he was blind said okay i got to leave so i got on the train and you know thinking we were going to get a dog would be on the train and you know so that was the first real big

experience of a mafia family and getting involved and it's quite thrilling you know you're you're at your peak of your of you know everything every cell in your body is is trying to understand and and be calm and go through and so it got back home and that was the start of where we're continued to grow so okay and i mean how often did you make that trip or did you uh well that was the first trip we went up uh we started i didn't really after about six months um uh i almost got busted uh actually another uh undercover agent from um Montgomery county i actually grew up with since I was three years old and I went to

sell, give somebody a stash of hair, wanted to see if they could if they could be somebody we could sell it and it was an old guy that was on the wrestling team and he got caught selling TVs and I didn't know he was trying to set me up

so this is the first time that I almost got arrested but I didn't and I knew why didn't I get arrested? I have no idea. So, you know, I was supposed to meet this guy at McDonald's, and it just seems strange to me. This is where you learn how to be a good drug dealer by experience.

Nobody can teach you. So I met this, I was going to McDonald's. I can remember all this stuff like it was yesterday. So I walked in McDonald's, and I just felt so funny, and I saw a black car, and I said, something's not right. So I left McDonald's. And the next day I was over at a friend,

another wrestler's house in Aspen Hill and I walked in and he says oh yeah that he was kind of joking with me about being paranoid and he says that guy I got an undercover cop that lives right over there and I saw that exact car that the night before or the evening before I was supposed to meet I saw that one of McDonald's so I realized that the undercover cop is the guy that I left the meeting and that kind of kind of blew my mind that this guy would try to set me up this is my first heroin transaction I almost got busted right so with all that said we started meeting Louie came down from Maryland they had another buy in our apartment that I got an apartment with that God Dale and the Montgomery County

our narcotic squad asked me to come in and oh they wanted to enter interview me. And I went to my buddy. For a job? No. Yeah, yeah. I went to my buddy, the guy that I grew up with was undercover and he kind of coached me on, man, he says, they don't have you. But if you say something, because they knew Dale was a bank robber and he, Dale had been dealing for years. So they knew that we lived together. Right. And he says, they have nothing on you. But if you don't say anything, because they usually don't, you know, usually people. You usually give them enough information to hang you. That's why they're interviewing you. If they had enough to hang you, they wouldn't be calling you in to talk to you. Right. So anyway, I went through that experience and realized, you know, how to work through a situation with the police on me and getting back out. And, you know, you go through traumatic pressure through all this. I'm sure you understand that.

And so that was the first time I got out of there, you know, moved out of the apartment with Dale. Um, and then, uh, got into, uh, trying to quit, I tried to quit dealing. And that lasted about a week. So, um, and so that that was, you gave it a long time. Yeah. Yeah. A week is about all it would last. So that was, that was my first experience with almost getting busted in New York and really, uh, building a bond with Dale in his boldness. You know, he's a pretty bold guy you know there's certain things you got to be to be a good drug dealer and it's pretty bold you know we were you know back then it was more of a thrill it wasn't to shoot them up everything like it's become today right so how how long did this go on before um well the i then i really i found a

couple people in town that were uh selling cocaine and uh went through um um um uh learning about cocaine you know that was the biggest thing it's because everybody's got the best so you had to learn the quality and and I started dealing and the next trip I took was I drove out to California with a friend just for for fun and I ran into a group there that was had the best cocaine I ever did I've always doing cocaine for a couple years but this is about 1975 so about four years I had been doing cocaine in the area and dealing with it

the best I could as a small time because I was at the bottom of the chain instead of the top of the chain. So I went out to L.A. and I found this cocaine that I never was just really good. So came back home. I started dating a girl that her mom

owned a head shop. Her brother was one of the, probably the second biggest bookie in the area. And I became friends. I mean some of these, some of the guys like bookies and everything back then were just characters just fun to be around and just uh you know attracted everybody you know they were the the life of the party kind of people and i borrowed eight thousand dollars from him i said listen and he i was selling him pot he loved

to smoke pot so i said um so i took that 8 000 got on got on a plane went to san francisco and my buddy that i went with you know we they started oh we got the cocaine but we're but we ran out of that, and then we went on this trail all around town and never could get a sample, and then they waited until we were just getting ready to get on the airplane. They said, oh, we found it, so we got it, wasn't even able to try it or anything, and, you know, put it, we had a banjo, we put it in the back of the banjo, put it on the plane, came home, and got ripped off, you know, it was garbage. And that was my big lesson, you know, I thought, oh man, these guys are going to shoot me.

I'm not going to have the money to pay them. I think I got back $2,000 out of some bogus cocaine that I tried to sell. So that was my second big lesson. What kind of money were you, I mean, making in general just so. That was just, that was really supporting habit right then. That wasn't the money. And then I, you know, it's, if you want me to keep telling you the process of, you know, and then I've met a guy in Bethesda that, uh, about,

50 miles out of town and Front Royal. I went out there and, you know, he was getting a cocaine from Bolivia. He had a way that they were sending it to him in the mail. And that's where I really learned what quality was. And that was another big lesson, you know, with Dale and the people were around how people really abused the power of having drugs and manipulating people around. and then the girls and got involved with some of the Redskins.

That was another mafia group that was not as big as they thought they were, but that was really... What are the Redskins? Oh, football team. Okay, the NFL. That's what I thought, but you still said, then you said kind of a mafia. Yeah, yeah, well, it was who it was around, some of the guys that played. Okay.

You know, and that's where I got my taste of what that was, and then how the girl, what my girlfriend, that I used to have a girlfriend, that we stayed friends, she became friends, or supposedly getting married with one of the Redskins. And they had a kid, and that was another whole process of learning the manipulation and how people use people when they have drugs. And so that was kind of hard because of how they treated women. It was, I don't know if people know the other side of the sports and how women get treated, but it's pretty, it's pretty, I don't know how you want to put it. Egregious? Yeah, yeah. So that really stunned me. And so, so I learned a little bit from this guy

in Front Royal, and then we had the Redskins. And then there was a lady, a friend of mine that, the guy that turned me on to cocaine, you know, his brother had a maid from Bolivia. And she said she knew somebody and so his brother started getting some real good product but he only did a couple ounces and you know my goal was to start a family you know because after all the stuff I've been through and you know the police and you know all this stuff I said man I got and then I got through the traumatic experience when I went out to Virginia my girlfriend started sleeping with this guy that had the best cocaine and that just tore me up and I with that pressure and what I've been through and the police kind of starting to watch me

I had a nervous breakdown you know my reality was so far out there I could not even function and got put in a psych ward so I was in a psych ward in 1976 and that was uh you know how could I fit in the world and you know what was what was life about you know what was what does this all mean you know you know trying to figure my purpose out i was just going to say you didn't really have a purpose yeah i was just you were just kind of existing yeah yeah you know but i knew there was something you know my grandfather you know how can i make this be something that i really enjoyed what was this about what was my niche and all this and and i didn't want to be used and underneath these guys that had the families and how they were abusing people you know so i thought i could do it better than them

Right. And, you know, and that, that experience came back out. I was there for two weeks. Where? In Springfield State Hospital. Oh, okay. You know, and then I said, tried to get a job. You know, I said, okay, I'm going to quit dealing.

My dad drove me. I was up near BWI Airport in Baltimore. He drove me to a job interview, and I walked in this building, and they gave me some papers this fill out, and I couldn't even write down my name and address and what I could do, and I kind of folded the papers up, sit them on the table, and walked out, and I said, okay, I know what I got to do.

Do you still want a plane to Bolivia? Well, now it's coming. I was, but yeah, that was a start of just feeling that I didn't fit. You know, just couldn't adjust with the pain and the things I was traveling with in my life. It's just a ball of confusion, and where could I get my spot, if you want to call it, that I was going to be successful. So, but that was the start of where it ended up. So the guy that was, that turned me on in cocaine and we did some business, so we had, I was, as this was going on, I was building my little empire of understanding how to function among,

these all the criminal I was a criminal too but you know I didn't look at myself as a criminal but I was too and so I got that that connection and this girl I finally he convinced his brother to give us her telephone number she was from Bolivia so she called up one night she says okay I'm gonna this is me and my buddy he said I'm gonna meet you in Georgetown and she gave us an address and it was in the and it was a an alley and it was about 12 o'clock at night and I didn't know if this was the final hit they finally set me up and because you never know who's who's doing what in this in the world and so we drove down to that was about an hour's drive from where we lived drove down parked and was

walking in this alley and there was a beautiful Bolivian look like a model and and I said okay this has got to be a setup. This can't be real. And she broke in English, beautiful accent. You would dream about meeting somebody like this. And she gave me a bag and she says, okay, this is what you're going to do. You sell this. I'm going to meet you back in two weeks. You guys give me the money. So that's how it started. And I think we got, when we first started, it was just about five ounces, not a bunch. But I hustled, got the money, gave her the money so I did I did work with her for about five years and then her boss that same process just yeah same process not well it would be meeting different places I met her in

front of the airport she'd walk out of the airport give us I had my I had a I had a doverman I had a van a big tank of water and the yeah driving up to the airport is not the smart thing to do because you know you you never want to get blocked in your drug deal you learn how to do things a little safe but she had the boldness is like she had a license to do what she did. She walked at the airport, got in the van, gave us, I think, a pound, a pound, that's how we started, and got back out, and she said, I'll see you in about a month.

Pound of what? Cocaine, yeah, yeah. And I mean, when I say cocaine, it was as good as you could imagine. They don't, anything that goes through the mob and came in, nothing was like this. It was, I think they charged me like $1,000 an ounce. And the market for that without cutting, it was about 2,000 at that time. And then if you cut it a little bit, which I was very, I wanted to build a market.

I wanted the best in town. And that's where I started my market. You know, if I was going to build what I was trying to build, I needed the best product. Right. And so I've been, what, almost five years of, you know, being, getting a bunch of garbage. And once in a while, you get something that was good. but to get them you know that's where you I could build what I was trying to build so um you're still what kind of money are you still making now I mean you're doing decent

yeah yeah you know I was making I would say we would make between 15 and 20 thousand and that time it was pretty not it's pretty good market and and you know it would take me a week to do that you know and then her boss understood so my reputation started traveling back in Bolivia of we got a guy in the United States that he pays and we trust him so that's how that's how that and then his her boss came to the United States and are you are I mean I mean before we get to that like are you are people around you getting busted or anything or it's yeah yeah yeah and you know and in the meantime when she wasn't around because that would last there was no I had no idea when she was coming and when she was

coming and there was times when it would be three or four months that she wouldn't disappear I had no telephone number she did just the only thing she had was my number right I had no control of when she would show up so in the meantime I said well I got to do something I got tired of waiting and then I wanted to go down to Florida and because that's where the action was and my uncle was a bartender and he was kind of the guy that was my idol when I grew up he had a brand new Cadillac every year come down had you know the trunk full of playboys, lifted weights, had a tattoo, you know, the model, that's who I modeled

myself. My father and I didn't get along and, you know, that family stuff was a mess. And so that was the guy that, you know, showed me how to work on engines. I mean, he was, he was like the king for me. And he was a bartender down there. He was alcoholic. But he and Barry, which I mentioned to you, they were buddies. They went treasure hunting in South America. They were like real wild. They were the real deal. And my uncle had been arrested and arrested in South America for gun smuggling. So that's what he did when they were all mixed with guns.

They were a different, they were the old time guys. Barry and this CIA agent that we get to later in the story used to be Dean Martins and Frank Sinatra's captain on their boat. So the guy Barry, which I'll share more about, he and I became friends. And he didn't use cocaine. He was a drinker. But he could speak Spanish. So I needed a translator to get to this next step that I was about ready to take. So I started dealing a little bit of drugs for the cocaine cowboys that was in Fort Lauderdale.

So I went down there and he introduced me to them and they took me under their wing. They liked me, you know, gave me a car. when I came down there it was pretty pretty wild they were really wild but they were the kind of guys that would use you and then set you up so when they get in trouble that's how they kept their market going right they would build a clientele and then they would set people up and the people that were working with them would let them continue to deal so there was some big lawyers involved a big money real big money so the big money the money that I started making started when I got

in touch with that gentleman I gave you that picture right this is Barry sealed the movie yeah American made the guy that they made that they made that they made that movie about Barry one of the guys and I met the pilots from Barry they were I mentioned that CIA airport that was all set up by the CIA and they let them use the airport and then when they decided to I guess they were, as they did that, the CIA, they were setting up, they were infiltrating all the market that they wanted to.

So when they got finished with them, they arrested them all. This is the real story. And then they had a judge, I think it was North Carolina, South Carolina. They had a judge. So Barry and his partner, the judge, the pilots all went to prison.

I think they got like five years in the movie. in the movie and then Barry and his partner they made them get all the money and they came in the courtroom Barry told me he says we had garbage you know trash bags full of money and the judge made him give them all the money and sent them out so it was all about the money sifting and getting in the right hands you know we know what we know about that I was going to say um yeah I had seen the movie when they made it back in the 80s it was on like HBO and this was when Who was the I forget the guy

Like Tom Cruise played the The remake But I forget Dennis Hopper Oh really? I didn't Played Barry Seale Okay

And I always remember You know The end of that movie Where they sent him Where the They sentenced him To the halfway house Like you have

You can You can work But you have to be At the halfway house Every night And he says in that one He says to the judge What are you talking about?

Like If you make me go to the You're just they'll just kill me in the halfway house and he's doing the judge is like get out of here you're you're getting a deal and sure enough they they kill him in the halfway house yeah pulls up and they're waiting for him yeah um so so what what so at what point at what point do you end up going to like do you start importing stuff from well um so as i was working with barry and uh you know getting this experience and I'm trying to think if there would when the law of course I was

best friends with a guy in D.C. that was like a mafia family. He had a strip club and different clubs. He was my grandfather and his father were friends. So I the people I was around and my record and the DEA and were right close and now Barry and the guy that set up Barry which we found out was the old guy from the captain when they used to captain Frank Sinatra's boat he was in the CIA and at that time I didn't know what his part was and so we needed somebody to fly a shipment to from Florida to me and they used him to do that and then right before he flew back they told me that he just busted I think it was a plane from Columbia there must have been a ton of cocaine and he was the guy that they used

and we didn't know it at the time but we'd already set up him flying cocaine to me I mean the CIA and they work inside I mean this is they they have a cover that lasts for years and so I have a guy coming to Maryland from Barry's sending him

bringing a shipment from the cocaine cowboys and he's a CIA agent and here I am you know he they kind of knew I was working with this Bolivian group and my boss was best friends with the guy Noriega and that's when they were trying to get the evidence for Noriega and before they were setting him up so I couldn't tell who I was with when when this thing started rolling with my new boss the guy that came from Bolivia when it came in it went to the police in Miami I would go down with Barry and they would give it to Barry to give to me so it got so difficult to know who side I was really on and that's kind of where I was at with starting my my relationship with the guy in Bolivia and that's does that makes is it making sense yeah yeah okay I was thinking

about I was just wondering to myself when we said Noriega I was wondering if Colby knew who Manuel Noriega was oh no well he was a panama right yeah it was panama he was the president yeah yeah that was when the big cartel was really had control of the money uh the people that were really involved were him and some people you know it was a select flute a few that was friends with him that were covered in many ways. And they wanted me to meet him, but I was afraid to, and Barry met him in Miami. They were pulling me even closer.

And I said, nope, I'm not going to get that close. So, I mean, this is the president of Panama, you know, Panama, you know, the Panama Canal, you know, Panama, like in Central America. And he's running, he's running drugs. He's letting drugs get run through the company. and through the company through the country and eventually you know they're buying they're selling drugs to get money to buy arms yeah for the Contras for this it was a um yeah uh a militant group that was trying to overthrow um what were they trying to overthrow was it i i i don't know if it was

one of the one of those countries then i don't know if they're trying to overthrow like the like a communist regime or something in there you know I mean it was a complete you know complete cluster fuck like it was just completely just but but the CIA is actively working with them to get the money because Congress they couldn't get money from Congress to fund these guys for this revolution so what do they do they start working with these guys in Panama and letting them and and selling drugs letting the drugs go in and out to get the money to buy the guns Yeah. And it's just, it's just, it's ridiculous.

But this is like the president of a country. Yeah. And one of our allies. And then Reagan sends in troops to arrest Noriega. Yeah. Like, because I mean, how do you say, hey, you've been indicted? Like, it's like saying, it's like saying Gigi Ping has been indicted. We need you guys to hand them over.

Yeah. Well, that's not going to happen. So they send in American troops to arrest. And there's a huge gun battle. this goes on like all like like a day or two yeah this was yeah i mean and then it's covered up there's like i think it got too close to getting the truth out and what there was really going on and they uh they shut it down yeah then ronald regan gets pulled in in front of congress yeah and he can't remember nothing yeah he's there like no i don't right i i think he had about 30

different ways to say i don't recall it was you know at this time i don't presently recall what happened at you know i'm not sure i would have to check with my so-and-so at that time i believe that i cannot recall exactly what on july 18th get excited for the summer's biggest adventure i think i just smurf my pants that's a little too excited sorry smurfs only diders july 18th happened i mean it was it was like this is amazing it was like watching um bill clinton give those answers it's like did he just like how are your sides like you're a professional sidesteper yeah like you almost i almost feel like you answered the question you didn't but i almost feel like you did you're so good at it and that yeah that was the iran contra whole affair

but yeah it was all these guys were just involved and and the government's involved and that's yeah it's kind of like the um fast and furious where they're they're they're pulling guns you know from drug dealers and selling them to the uh to the cartel like it's it's it's insane. It's a, what are you doing? This is a ATF, a D-E-A that are involved in this. Like, you're not supposed to be doing those things. Yeah, they did some stuff that they don't, not supposed to

do. You've got to see that movie. You have to see the movie. They don't do, listen, they don't do nearly as good of a job in the Tom Cruise one. I didn't see the first. The first one is better because you have a full understanding

that like this is clearly this is what's happening. It's hard to following the Tom Cruise one. It's more flash. Yeah, yeah. But it was a good movie. Yeah. Yeah, these guys are, you know, and all these people are really unique in individuals.

I mean, you know, you know, they just chose this other side of the street. And so it's. It's funny. You never really get like a super average normal guy, you know, in like the drug. People, criminals are they, extreme personality. Yes, you're right. You know, yeah. They're either.

There's so much talent sitting behind bars, it's amazing. I'll just say that, you know, if they could ever understand how to find the life that they could be successful with. Like you have been, and I'll tell a little bit more about where I came, but there's a ton of talent sitting behind bars. I'll say that. Yeah, it's sad. So what has, so at some point you, you say, hey, I'm not. just going to start shipping this and stuff in from Bolivia. So then, you know, I started working with my boss of, you know, they brought me down to

Bolivia, invited me to come visit, you know, and at that time, you know, I was a pretty business type guy, you know, silk suits and, you know. That's a picture, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I enjoyed having money. And, you know, I guess the, at that time, I guess a big shipment was about 10 keys for me. And, you know, my habit was way, way, I was drinking about a fifth of, what's, what's my drink with the blue case, Crown Royal. It's been so long, it's been 37 years since, but, you know, I was probably drinking a fifth of Crown Royal almost a day and smoking pot and getting high, you know,

because, you know, I had the DEA, the FBI, and the CIA all around what I was doing. And I got pulled out of the airport. That shipment that that CIA guy brought, I left Florida and stuck about a gram in my pocket because I knew I was being watched. I wouldn't travel. I was smart enough not to travel and move it myself. Right. Because that's when, you know, I didn't want to jeopardize.

I knew I was being watched. And they pulled me out, and that was Ronald Reagan Airport. I walked outside, I was getting in the cabin. A lady looked like a grandmother, flipped a badge, DEA. She said, son, come on, we're going to talk to you. You know, pulled me out of there, took me down in a basement. And, you know, I was making excuses on my uncle's an alcoholic, and I had to go to Florida to help them.

And they went through my collar, and I've had some real thick socks on. And I had a Graham in there, and they went down my legs and missed it. And I was sweating. But that really, you know, and then I knew that was the day before the guy from the CIA was shipping, coming, flying in. And I think they thought they had me, and they didn't, and they didn't blow his cover. And, you know, I had like three or four different places in Maryland. One was in Annapolis. I had different places.

I was hiding everything, you know, and moving. it around because that was the only thing I knew is to stay ahead of everybody so so that was that was the start and then after that then we started I got invited down to got through that and that was with cocaine cowboys I was doing a little bit with a believe a Cuban mafia in the keys they were big pot smugglers and that was real bad cocaine work with them for a while and that wasn't that wasn't good because you get a batch and then you'd have a hard time selling it and then they would be back up in Maryland kind of threatening me you know what are you going to do and I had to I didn't some of the money they had shipped something in

that they smuggled it in diesel and it smelled like it was horrible so anyway I lost money on that and I gave him a sports car I had built to pay them off to make them happy and and then going to Bolivia with my boss you know I was they it was I was treated you know I was I was treated you know I would die before I would tell on them. I wouldn't. It was family. They trusted me. And, you know, you go through a life of drug,

and then you get to a place that people really cared and trusted you. And I couldn't, even when I got arrested, they tried to get me to set them up. And I didn't. I said, you know, if I did the crime, I was going to do the time. And that's another part of the story that's coming up, getting pulled over. But so let me take the story this way.

So I was at the edge. You know, my boss was in New York and he got pulled over. This was right before New York got arrested. And I believe he was used by our government to get what they needed to set up the invasion that they had for him. And I was just on the outs. side of that. And I think I was watched as I was dealing and they were using it also to kind of

corner him, but for somehow I did not get arrested. It was beyond my understanding that what I was doing, I didn't get stopped. And but, you know, so I tried to, when he got, when, when there was about six months where I couldn't get in touch with him and I said, I got to get out. I know I'm going to do big time. I know I'm going to be dead or I'm going to I'm going to do big time. So I said I'm going to open a recording studio and in the recording studio I said well this is one way I'll be able to support my habit and not have to deal because you know I was I had a huge monster habit of cocaine you know you get used to spending money and you it's hard not to change unless you're unless you change your whole life it's hard to get out of

whatever you're doing right when you get used to money and you probably know that better than I do but but so so I opened up a recording I took the money I had a the last trip I had about 20 ounces and about $40,000 and I said okay I'm gonna take that aside I'm gonna build a recording studio and I'm gonna somehow get a hit record because I said that's just the only way I'm ever gonna get out so I've another friend I'm still friends with, you know, I had a piece of property. My father left, my family left, and I was trying to buy it from them.

Had a garage that I used to have a carpet company when I was trying to, you know, keep things undercover. I had a little company I was running. So anyway, I remodeled that building and built a recording studio. So in about a year after I got it all put together, it was almost like I was blessed. for somehow, you know, I was, and I was kind of on the side of a demonic side or Satan's world. I'm just going to give this in spiritual terms. I was kind of able to move in darkness without anybody stopping me.

You know, the blessings, I'll call them worldly blessings of, you know, meeting that girl and how I didn't get in trouble. I didn't get shot. I mean, my friends were getting shot. I was in some rough places in D.C. I mean, I had no fear. I don't know what protected me. But anyway, got through all that.

And there's recording studio. So I was this guy that had done three albums with Warner Brothers. Unbelievable. I'm not going to mention his name because he still has a company. He's still doing his thing. But he was a call. It was a cult. He had six wives and 21 kids at the time.

And he was my age. How old was I was 33 years old? And Warner Brothers blackballed him. He had articles in Playboy and unbelievable, Stevie Wonder, James Brown type of charisma, you know, just unbelievable, a magnetic, man, a black man that had all the talent in the world, but the industry was scared of him because of what he believed in, and they shut him down.

And he was looking for a guy that had a studio and money, and of course it was me. So when we got together, it was like we fit like a glove. You know, it was like I wanted to be successful to continue my lifestyle, and he needed somebody like me to back him that wasn't afraid of the industry. you know so we started an album and that album took us about two years and I was at that time I had no understanding of what it took to produce a hit record so he taught me and I mean it was

drooling the time we spent in the studio and what he did with all the musicians I mean oh I mean when you say cutting a groove years ago when they cut a groove they worked until they couldn't stand and and produced something unbelievable it's not like today is a little different when you produce stuff. That was a different era that used to do it on the two-inch tape. You know, it wasn't done with the computer age and stuff. It was like you used to have to bounce tracks. So I really got broken into the music industry and learning how to do that. But when you get into a call, there's a spiritual force that we all are in. and understanding that is where this what God or what my life has helped me understand is

you know we all have gifts you know I have a gift that I used for my own success as a drug dealer and and just all the pain and things that I lived in I didn't know I didn't have to so you know I'm in this in this time with this cult and I had a girlfriend that was a real hippie back then we were hippies you know hippies are drug dealers one of the other and I was a drug deal so after two years I ran out of money and you know my family the boss's wife called me because he was not able to move anymore and she said you want to come down to Miami I got I got and I wasn't trying I was trying not to go anymore I was trying not to be involved and Barry which was my driver was he was in

Columbia he'd spent a lot of time in Columbia and so I would had to go get it and you know I had long hair you know it was like a rock you know kind of rock star you know velvet sports jacket top hat you know you know very exotic kind of person at the time you stuck out yeah yeah yeah And not afraid to. And that was very a side of my personality that I'm kind of glad that's not there anymore because it wasn't balanced with, you know, being socially acceptable. Right. I'm going to say that I'm sure the Coke helped.

Well, it did. It certainly gave me that euphoric that is not grounded for reality. I'll put it that way. That confidence to stand out. be self uh yeah um concerned at all yeah i get it so did you go down there what happened uh well uh so i right right before um i left and and you know i was trying to decide what side of my own am i going to try to be on a side of life that uh was um um how would i say uh appreciated people in a different way that you are when you do, when you're a rock star,

and how the sex industry and how the music is promoted and how dramatic and how many people get heard along the way and how people get used and abused. And I had to make a decision, am I going to be over here with him and go for this thing? You know, we had a song called Universal Party. And it was a momento, it's a piece that could make. move a lot of people in a direction. So I wanted to do I am I going to be on this dark side and

and be a drug dealer and what is my life all about? Why was God, why did God or whatever power let me get this far? I was trying to figure out what it, you know, being in the psych ward and all the things I experienced, the pain I was still carrying, what does it all mean? And we all get to this point in life. And so right before I left, I prayed, the first time I've ever prayed to God. I said, God, I said, I can't stop. Something, I said, I can't stop. I can't, I got to quit this.

I was saturated, you know, I had a deviated septum. I couldn't hardly drink anymore. You know, I couldn't hardly do any Coke anymore because my nose would bleed. and it was just the insanity of that life. And I had to make a decision, am I going to stay here? And I prayed the guy, I said, if you stop me,

I'll turn my life over to you. So I went down to Miami and, you know, met his wife, and, you know, they had all the mules. They had probably six to eight people that they would pack up. So when you left Bolivia, they had a room you went through,

and they asked me when I was in Bolivia, they would pay that lady to get you through to Miami. And then when you went through customs, they already had that set up who was going through. So that's how it works. And then the government get paid and everybody gets paid. But they got that group through and met me and the people got a room, I got a room,

and then all the mules came to the room and unloaded their stuff. It was all wrapped in bags and crust and they had it on them in all different ways. And so I left Miami coming back. And, you know, it was, out of all the years I ever did cocaine, that was the best batch. The last batch was the best batch. And so I got out of Miami and came to, got in Woodbine, which is the first right in Georgia, got over the line.

And by 3 o'clock in the morning, you know, I had a Cadillac, hat on, you know, all that got pulled over. and my girlfriend was with me and they put me in the back of that police car and I said I'm yours so that was my surrender why did they pull you over I think I don't know who set me up I don't know if it was I met the guy from Cuba

down there I don't know the sheriff would never tell me we're still friends I talked to him a month ago he won't tell me he won't tell me he's ex-FBI he was the FBI agent for like He worked under Jay Agahoeuvre. He worked for, I think, 15 years before he came sheriff.

I mean, he had some power in that town. And so somebody gave him the, what, just somebody said, pull this car over search the car? In Woodbigh, Georgia, it was the first state, first town out. He, he had, that was where they would set people up coming out of Florida. That was their connection, the FBI connection and all the snitches and all that stuff. that was the town you got pulled over.

So there was 10 other people in there from, you know, coming that way. That was cocaine corridor. And so I got pulled over, you know, popped the trunk. I was had it hid behind the, where the spare tire was. There was a compartment I had it in there, and it was the back of the cars that I'm yours. So that's where my new life really started.

I had a choice. I could do it. I could stay in that confusion or I said, okay, if this is what you're going to do, I'm yours. So it was the first week I was there, the GBI in Georgia, came to me and said, okay, you're going to do some big times, son, you know. And I wasn't, and they said, if you, we're going to put you out on 95, and you call your people and tell them you broke down and you've got to come.

So that way, I said, and I wasn't, I didn't cooperate with them. I was still kind of out of my. mind, you know, I was kind of out there, tell you the truth. I was very, very, you know, you do that much drugs and you're that high for so long, your reality thinking isn't too good. Right. So, you know, I was still a rock star. I was still a rock star back then, you know.

But I knew I had to make a change. You know, I had to, had to, and so that's where this crazy, new part of my life started. And so the GBI came and they didn't. And then I got a lawyer and my girlfriend wanted to, they arrested her and I said the only way I can get her. Everybody there got arrested with the girlfriend and the guys all blamed their girlfriend. So none of them were guilty. None of them were guilty. You found what in the car?

Baby, what did you have in the car? They were all. So they had, you know, the sheriff was, he had a hit on him. He was resting. He confiscated when I was there. $18 million off of 95. Wow. And he started, and this is a little further down,

but he started getting people going to Florida. So they had all the informants in the towns telling them what was coming, and he started getting the money before it went to Florida instead of after. And that's a whole other little piece of the story. Which is really the way they would prefer it. Well, not the judges and lawyers.

No, but. But, yeah, that's where this thing gets real crazy. but so it was interstate transportation I got charged with I got 35 years that's what they gave me

in Georgia or just in Georgia in Georgia well it was interstate transportation but I got arrested in Georgia right okay so it was federal federal yeah so so so you know it was about three months

and I had three months before my court before they took me into court and got a lawyer and they pleaded for eight and but before that I had to sign the papers saying I was guilty to get my girlfriend out when I was trying to save my house trying to save the recording studio and so she went back and I signed papers I said I'm guilty I'm not going to so on the way back from court and I had spaghetti legs you know that was before I pleaded they gave me 35 and I could hardly walk up

at the courthouse is 100 yards from the jail and I was walking back there and I said man what did I do. I did it. You know, what's going to happen to me? You know, I got 35 years. And my parents, my parents, my mother wouldn't even talk to me. Nobody's going to, they say, oh, this is good for you to be in jail. Because I drove everybody, you know, I was insane and the family suffered. You know, the family suffers through our insanity. Yeah. And so they, my sister, it's the best thing in the world for him. He'll finally get his life. They don't know what jail is like being incarcerated. But anyway, walking back to the jail,

there's a little area when you walk into the jailhouse. And it was a brand new jail because the sheriff has been built the courthouse. He built a new jail with money. He was taken off of 95. And the sheriff came. Unbelievable character.

He had a big draw accent. But my girlfriend pleaded that he would talked to me after court. So she gave him a flower, put a card on his, you know, so he, after jail, he said, okay, I'll talk to him when he gets after court. So he pulled me in his office. And he says, son, are you guilty? I said, yes, sir. He says, you know, you're the first guilty person's ever been in my jail. And that's how our friendship started. And they had, he says, listen, I might be able to get you a little better on your parole. We're doing a thing saying, say no to drugs, and that was Ronnie Reagan's. Right. And I said, yes, sir. Oh, so you were under the

old law. This was before 1986, right? It was actually 1980, the beginning, that's when I got arrested in 86. Okay, so were you under the old law? I don't know, I don't know what. Well, was there, was parole, parole was an option. Like, you could get parole. You could get parole. Okay. But, you know, there was still parole and, you know, I, but, you know, I had two and a half keys. in the trunk when I got pulled over. So I, you know, said I'm guilty and then they gave me the 35-year sentence. But when I told him that, yeah, I was guilty, says, so listen, I'm going to let you do some testimonies with me. It's an election year, and I need somebody to go out and explain what it is to, you know, go through your drug addiction and stuff. So I said, thank you, Lord. I didn't

know the Lord then. I didn't know anything about God. Right. But I did surrender to him. And and that was my first hope that was something, you know, I was like crushed with that 35-year sentence. And then that gave me a little hope that something possibly could, you know, this guy's going to let me work with him. Right. So the first time I did a testimony for him was in a grade school, and that's what I have these shackles.

These are my shackles from that time I did that. I always like to pull him out. because it kind of, I remember what life was back then. Right. And this was, I was, you know, shackled, legs, arms, hands. And then that was put me in front of a grade school. And it really let me see of the bondage I was in. You know, we look at the physical, but the spirituals,

where the bondage is. Nobody's, you know, we're all, you know, what is freedom? And so this is really my first step in that right, that direction. But like I said, when I do share about my life as what happened, I bring those out and really helps me to connect. That's who I used to be, bound and not free and not ashamed to who I was. I'm not ashamed anymore. Right. You know, I'm an ex-con, I know it, but God is doing something with my life, you know.

So that's where it started. And then, you know, I was out doing a talk with him and he was in a suit and he rubbed. against the chalkboard and when I was walking out with him I grabbed his arm and I you know you don't touch anybody like that right and I rubbed off the chalk that was on his suit and that's where our bond our friendship really started I and he started trusted me and then it's amazing thing happened I got I became a trustee in the kitchen that was a big step getting from from from the orange shoots into the white suits and I had a privilege to going down. And so I did flooring. So I said, you know,

they just did a brand new kitchen and they had no flooring in it. And I said, well, let me do let me put some flooring in here for you guys. So I ordered some flooring from Maryland. They shipped it down. I put the flooring in. And I just built cabinets for the, the library in the jail. And then I started, he started picking me up and I started going with him to so what was illegal when he picked me up he took me to Charleston that's where his family lived and it was against the law to go out of state not say it now but I wouldn't so he would take me there I would drive it he couldn't drive good so he had a bad hip he needed a hip replacement and I would drive him and we became best friends I started I probably went I was out of the jail probably

three or four days a week riding around with him he took me fish he took me everywhere right I mean it was just like insanity. And that was, and then after I probably did 15 testimonies, the little churches, community groups, and just telling them what was going on and what started going to church. And I didn't, like I said, I didn't know God, but everybody, there is a God, if you don't believe or not, but there is. And I've learned the difference between the dark in the light. So that's where God is using me. I understand what that is. I lived in it and I started walking a new way. Now, did my drug habit, I hadn't gotten out of jail yet, but my drug habit was, did I smoke pot in jail? You know, I tried to get people to send me

stuff. The cravings I had just didn't disappear, you know, of my lifestyle. But I wanted to do the right thing. So after doing those testimonies, and I said, I said, Can you guys get me out of here? The guy that started taking me to church, his uncle was Bill, Jim Proctor. He's the sheriff of Woodbund, Georgia, right now. So he was the guy that I started communication with. He took me to church with him, his family. And they kind of, his mom on Christmas brought me to his house.

They gave me Christmas presents. They let me, I was in the kitchen making gravy with his mom. I mean, I found out they didn't judge me. that was where I found out, I'll just say God's love. They loved me like nobody ever did. And it gave me faith that there's hope for me. And that's where my life really started, just from that experience of people that showed me

that I had value and stopped judging me because of what I did and gave me a chance to be a new person. And that's where my walk really started. So his uncle was the judge. The Bill Smith and him went to his uncle, and said, can we get you out of here? In 18 months, I was out.

I never, the state penetrantry tried to take me to prison. They wouldn't, the sheriff said, I'm not going to let them take you out. You're in my, you're in the drug program. And this is, so the sheriff is running a drug program for the feds? Well, say no to drugs. Oh, okay. So that was a big thing. You know, he got in touch later with Janet Reno.

It went right up to the, that was Bill Clinton's, person we started uh yeah yeah that she was a u.s attorney um for bill plant yeah after i got out i went back to woodbine and uh work with uh but 12 churches and the jail that started going to the jail ministry there um and he got permission he spent uh almost 400 000 to send people to go to saddleback church to get uh recovery ministry leaders that we we you know so that was my first big step so how much time did you spend in prison 18 months 18 months on a 30 on a 36 year sentence 35 years 35 year sentence yeah that's insane I what can I say I can't I you know I've seen people for a couple grams yeah to five years I was going to say I've seen guys you know

they'll bring a a gun to a $10 crack deal and get 15 years you know yeah yeah um yeah so it's pretty unbelievable yeah i was going to say did you were you on pro parole i was on parole okay and and um uh when i got out i got my girlfriend i went back to georgia i still wasn't talking to anybody in my family and i got married the sheriff gave my wife and the guard gave my wife it was a little town you can imagine this is pretty wild And that's where I, you know, because I kind of disconnected from my family because I didn't know how to deal with that. My mother's still an alcoholic. You know, you know, I was the bad guy, you know.

And it took me two years to gain, to see if this was the real deal. Nobody trusted me for the first two years. You know, all the guys were waiting for me to come out of retirement and go back to the old life. So what did you do when you got out? You know, I got a job with a neighbor for $8. hour as a laborer in a construction company and I was the happiest I have I'm used to walking around with a briefcase full of money right but I was I was had no worries I didn't have that ton of bricks on my back and I wasn't gonna you

know that was what I did and you know I did you read after I got married I went back down to Florida I had Barry I sent some product down to Barry because I had another place in Fort Lauderdale that I still had a little hideout And I sent some product down there, and I said, oh, I'm going to get high one more time. And I got high, and I realized I'm not that person anymore. And I was miserable. And I said, I'll never go back. And that was the turning point that this new person I was becoming was real.

And I wanted God to use me in a new way. I found some peace that I never had, and, you know, all the pain and abuse. and all that, you know, that wasn't part of my life anymore. So that's where it started. And then I came back, got a job working in a flooring company. After I did construction, the guy that sent me that towel that I did to jail, I did flooring for a little bit before I got, I was dealing, but I still had a job. I had a flooring company called Horizon Floors.

And I was still dealing. It was drugs and rugs at that time. But went back and he had a big company, a Jewish man that was really a mentor kind of teaching me business and learning how to do business to be successful in the system instead of the way I was. You know, I had a talent, but I wasn't doing it legally. So I did that for about three years and he wanted me to come on staff and salary. and you know I didn't I was 26,000 in debt the house I had had you know that drywall fell had holes in the roof and you know just building my trust up with my family it took about two years and then I became the walking miracle and my mom worked at a deal that I could have the property because I was the youngest and my sisters had moved and that would be an inheritance that she gave my sister so much and then that would be my inheritance. So I had a piece of property, just did two years with Bert, and I said, well, I'm going to open my own flooring company. So I paid off all my debt. I paid my mom

the 26,000, and then had nobody after me. And then I got involved in a little flooring company, and it was, I saved up 26,000. I went to the bank and asked them to match it, got a, got a One of the jobs I got, another Jewish friend of mine, was going to do a big project, 26,000, 1246 townhomes, and he awarded me the job. So I went to the bank, barred money, and that was the start of Craftmaster Interiors. So me and my wife started that company. I had this piece of property. It was four acres.

We started working on subdividing that. And then we opened up a company in D.C. She had craftmasters of DC and craft masters of Maryland, had about, that went on for 18 years or 10 years, and then she got in an accident. She gave her life to the Lord, but she didn't quit using. And she started drinking and got in a car accident and started doing oxycontin. And that was a real turning point of her downfall. And she had a lot of resentments, family.

She had rough abuse of things when she was young and could never forgive the people and all that that went through it. Her drug addiction got hard. It was the roughest, we were married 18 years. That was the roughest. I wouldn't give up on her, but it was the roughest thing. She was a brilliant business person. Like I said, we had the two companies.

Right as she got that accident, and we started really having problems. and she was overdosing. I was running her to the hospital about every three months. You know, it was just, you know, it's kind of what I put everybody through. Now, I was trying to, I had to go through that with her, and I didn't give up on her. But she passed. After a big job in D.C., we went on a cruise to St. Martins, and she passed away on a ship.

She overdosed. Her body just gave out. She died down in the sick bay. So that was How long ago was this? That was in 2009 she passed away. Okay. Or 2008 or nine, I'm not sure exactly.

You know, I was doing a whole city block of buildings from Davis construction. You know, I was doing about a $6 million job. I had about 30 guys working pretty successful. She was doing all the taxes. I was still not learning how to read and write very good. So I was trusting her to do the business. But when she passed, you know, I continued, but I always had this vision.

God really touched me about helping guys, especially incarceration, guys, reentry. That's my heart. I think I mentioned that to you. You know, like I said, there's so many gifted guys in bars that if they don't get it, if they don't realize they've got to get it right, they're always going to be there.

Right. And you've taken what you've been through and use your personality and your gifts to do what you're doing now, which is unbelievable. But for me, God said, I want you, you know, he's, you know, I have tremendous blessing with the Lord, meaning he's let me develop a way to help men with addiction. And I took, I'm kind of getting ahead of myself. You know, after she passed, I had the business and really felt God calling me. to find a piece of property

to open up a recovery center. And so that's where my heart was and I really gave the company and put it in my secretary's hands and I had three people in the office and I hired a new tax accountant because, you know, I never filed anything. My wife did it all and I was kind of scared

it might fall apart. So I found a lady I was doing recovery with at a church, celebrate recovery at the time. And that's what the sheriff helped me do with back in Woodbine and send everybody there. So, and got involved with Chuck Colson and some very big ministries. But because of me being my ex-Con,

I really didn't get, they kind of shut the door on me. You know, doors didn't open for me. Right. It's like, unless you've been there, sometimes people don't understand what that's all about. Right. And Chuck Colson.

It's kind of a good old boys club. Yeah. It's like opening a halfway house. Like, it's, you know, it's like, it's like federal judges. And like, it's hard to open a halfway house. You would think that they'd want as many open as possible. Yeah. Yeah.

So when I started at, when I did Celebrate Recovery, I went to a jail. And I did, went every Saturday for eight years. And really, you know, it broke my heart when a guy, his time's up. And I said, where are you going? He says, well, I'll be back here because this is where, you know, they get used to the system. Instead of learning, they can do it outside. And there's nobody, a lot of churches come in and tell them about God,

but they need an experience. They don't need somebody telling them. They need to be shown, this can be real. And that's really what God has done with my life is saying, this can be real, you can get it right. And it's a way that God has showed me that works. And so after being in there and working with guys for about eight years, just realized I had to do something to get them a place to come and have a chance to start

over. And so it took me about 10 years to find a place. It was a God's story of what that was. It was really hard to get the money. And so I sold everything I had. Me and my got married again. Me and my wife sold everything we had. I had two houses. You know, I had a couple of Mercedes. She had a townhouse, and then I was searching for property, and we bought 16 acres in Woodbine, Maryland. It used to be an old French restaurant, and it was a sanitarium for that, for women. It housed 26 women. Okay. And then somebody turned it into a French restaurant.

On 16 acres? You don't need 16 acres for that. It's just a beautiful, it's just a really beautiful. It's in the countryside. Right. You know, it's really a beautiful piece of property. And it was built in 1862. I was going to say you could put all those two businesses on one acre, so you just got a whole bunch of acres also.

Yeah, and I was trying to get something not close to anybody because, you know, when you bring people in with addiction or... Yeah, of course, the neighbors get upset. Yeah, yeah, so... Like, everybody wants halfway houses and they want rehabilitation, but they just don't want it in their neighborhood. Right, right. So anyway, I did it very slowly, and the first, the first, not even eight months, So the IRS calls me, and I get one, when they shut one business count down, it was 46,000.

And I said, what nobody, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I had a big tax firm, big money, I paid him a lot of money. And in a month's time, I had $500,000, and I just spent every cent that I had on this property. Right. And I said, oh my goodness, I'm gonna lose everything.

I thought everything was gonna close, collapse so I learned how to go through a really hard time I fired the so okay so the IRS showed up for what reason you hadn't been paid you the company you yeah the girls in the office that I trusted and the new tax firm they didn't give them all the information I just did these big huge projects and and the money that I spent was money that should have been spent for taxes okay and I didn't nobody told me that's what it was and I was the girls that my wife, my first wife, taught,

and they were putting the letters and the stuff for the IRS in a pile, and I didn't get it until I got pulled aside. Okay. So my office that I didn't run, I thought, was doing a good job, got me, wasn't. And I spent the money, I should have been spending on taxes. I sold a house, I thought this was all profit,

and I had this big firm that I hired to say, you make sure you do this tax, work with them so I don't get in trouble and they didn't do that either. All right. So I had to work my way out of that $500,000. I still had the company open, the flooring company. Right. But that was, in the Bible it says, you know, moving mountains.

You know, God does move mountains because there's a reason he let me experience all this and he got me through that too. And I started working, got a couple jobs and I fired the tax accountants. And I went right in with this little country accountant and, you know, went and visited the IRS myself. I said, I'm, you know, I was kind of fearful, but I said, I'm just going to, these guys are getting me in more trouble. I had a $50,000 bill from the tax company that I hired to keep me from paying taxes. And I said, I'm not going to do this. I just do it myself. So I worked through that, got all my

bills paid. I got that 500. I went and negotiated every bill. It probably came down to about 300, but I got it all done. Right. You negotiated with the IRS. that you're never getting the 500 you may get 300 you'll never get five yeah so that that worked out and so that's been 12 years that I've got the property and building the ministry or or second chance center and and now I'm really at a point where you know I've been very under the radar with what we do and and you know just trying to I want to build a a place for guys to learn trades also. I've got a construction company. I've got a culinary chef. I just remodeled a kitchen in the building so guys could learn culinary school and also

a fire alarm company. I got three ways to teach them a new trade if they want, if they want to learn a new trade and a new way to live. So that's taken 12 years to get it to where a guy could have a chance to have a new life. And reentry, there's a chiros ministry that goes into jails and they spend a weekend working with guys. And they just, because of the pandemic, they haven't been letting them go back in. Right. They're doing that and I'm going to work with them. I'm going to keep at least four beds open for guys that are in prison that want, really want it, because everybody talks about it, but you know, you got to really want it to make it work. Well, how many guys do you have right now. Right now I've got 10 guys and it kind of alternates eight is what I'm capable

because a couple guys will leave or whatever. And I'm rezoning to get hopefully 16 to 20 guys. That's the, I've rebuilt the property from A to Z. You know, right now that's what we're doing is rezoning. And I had to build kind of a following and right now we have about $95,000 a year from just people sending money in because I haven't got paid for 12 years. My wife doesn't get paid. I just do this because of my heart. I'm not looking for money.

I'm trying to build this for the next generation. Right. Because things are getting tough out here. So right now, we've got $95,000 a year to pay. I got two young men. One of them's been through the program. I've got to raise up about at least $150,000 a year in donations to meet the $400,000 a year bill

at cost to keep the property. open and somehow it's all it's somehow God keeps sending people to help and and and this connection of coming here to talk to you has been quite unique yeah I was going to say the guy that contacted me had been through the program he is a graduate yeah yep and uh you know I'm not a social media guy I'd rather be in the back of the the building even though a church I want to be in the back I don't want to be up front right so me talking is uh you know I'm just trying to figure out a way to give some guys another chance okay so uh are you are you you feel you good i'm i'm really good i mean uh i think uh you know

and then you know the book we have and right i got another book i'm doing um colby will put it uh in the description box right so um i think it's on amazon i think you can get it on amazon if somebody wants it yeah i'm sure it's on like i said working on another everything's on amazon yeah yeah so So just see, that's a picture of my grandfather. That's the guy that, he was a pretty gangster guy. If you can send all these. Yeah, if you can send all these. Barry Seal?

The Barry that my buddy's there, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think last time I talked to him, it was about eight months ago, and he has always been in touch. He's a sweetheart of a guy, just a sincere, a guy that would die for you. That was the guys that I work with. That's a guy, Dale. My little family was a tough little family, you know.

That's how I put around me to keep from making sure I didn't go down before I surrendered, if you want to call it that. Is there anything else that I, anything I didn't ask? I think that's, you know, I have an unbelievable wife now. That's, it's been a huge part, you know. I'm a faith-based program. You know, I don't push anything on anybody. I respect other people.

but it was it was my ticket to a new life right and that's really you know I know Jesus Christ I'm not a preacher but I know what he did for me and how my life changed so that's really you know what and I've like I said you know I appreciate what you what God is done with you one way or the other he's using you to help people and that's huge you know that's a that's a blessing so all right did you do you good Did I do okay? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that, you know, I didn't miss anything.

No, I think that's pretty much, yeah, I think that's a pretty much lay out. There's a lot of detail. I didn't, you know, but I didn't want to waste your time or, you know. All right. Well, well, thank you for coming out. Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you for the opportunity. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the video. If you like the, if you like the interview, do me a favor. the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified videos like this also share the video because that really does help you know hit the like button and leave a comment in the comment section also we're going to have the book it's going to be in the description so you can hit the link and buy the book and i really appreciate you guys watching the video so thanks for checking in and see you