Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Betrayal, Murder, and Corruption: The Chip Williamson Story

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Chip Williamson tells the true story of why he was facing murder charges. Check out Chips Channel https://www.youtube.com/@crimeentertainment9303/ Follow me on all socials! Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/matthewcoxitc Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxcrime Follow my 2nd channel - Inside The Darkness! https://www.youtube.com/c/InsidetheDarknessAutobiographies Want to be a guest? Send me an email here! [e-mail] Want a custom Con man painting shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/insidetruecrime Get a custom painting done by me! Check out my link! https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to True Crime Podcasts anywhere! https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my prison story books here! https://www.amazon.com/Matthew-Cox/e/B08372LKZG Support me here! Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69

He comes straight up to me, and the first thing he does is grabs me and jacks me up. So, of course, like, my... Goes up onto the stove. I'm trying to figure out what the hell's going on, and he's like, I'm going to kill you. And I told him, I was like, dude, if you don't get off of me, I'm going to shoot you. He's holding me with his left. He's swinging with his right. He kind of, like, clips my chin, so he doesn't hit it fully.

So at that point, I stepped back into the corner, literally in a corner, and he's already coming back at me, and I pulled out and I shot. I thought it was twice. Turns out it was three times. I didn't learn that until later. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am going to be interviewing Chip Williamson. He runs a YouTube channel called Crime and Entertainment. Chip has a crime story. So check this out.

So, well, I mean, obviously, you know, I know you because you interviewed me on your, crime and entertainment. Correct. You started that, like, how long? Probably like a year and a half, two years ago. I don't remember the exact date on the YouTube because we were doing some audio only before that, but I'd say roughly two years ago.

So, and that started because of you getting arrested for the charge was murder, right? It was murder and possession of weapon during a violent crime, yes, sir. Okay. So, I mean, I'll, um, I mean, we'll get into that, but I mean, let me start with, like, basically, like, the gifs at the beginning. Yeah.

So where you were born? I grew up in a town called Darlington, South Carolina, which is really known for not a lot, but the racetrack. That's about all there is there. To do anything, any sort of nightlife or anything like that, you had to go to a neighboring town, Florence. And I grew up there, went to school there, all the way up through graduation, went to technical college to be a welder. I got my first, I worked in radio for a little bit during that time. And then I got my first welding job. And then not long after that, I met my wife, or soon-to-be wife.

We met there. She had a daughter when we met. Where'd you mean her? It was actually at a club in Florence. It was, I remember, like, people older than me. I always hung out with people older than me. And they used to tell me this club called Murphys that everyone would go to. Well, when I was on the club, I was like 17 and some change.

not technically legal to be able to get into it, but, you know, almost there. The club had burnt down. So when it got rebuilt, like, just the hype with this club was unbelievable that everybody, you know, was coming back up. And so we went, or I've been going every weekend since it opened. Well, she was from about 45 minutes out of town. But, you know, even up there, they knew that this club was supposed to be, you know, really cool. They remodeled a lot. And the weird thing was, like, the first week we was there,

a classmate of mine seen her outside. One of the girlfriends that she come down with couldn't get in. And so they were having issues at the door, and my wife had her ID, so she's just standing her kind of waiting for us to play out, and she struck up a conversation with my classmate. So they wound up not even getting in that week. The following week, they come back in,

she recognized the girl from the week before and is having a conversation with her. Well, me knowing the classmate, I'm like, who the hell is she talking to? to, like, this girl's beautiful. And so I waited until they separate and I come straight up to him. I'm like, all right, who was that? And she's like, oh, that's my friend Felicia.

She says she thinks she were cute. And I'm just like, that's all I need to know. So, you know, went over there and run a little game and, you know, as they say, the rest is history. But that spawned our relationship, we were together for about, I think, seven or eight years. Then we got engaged. We got engaged quickly. But we got married after about seven or eight years.

she had a daughter when we met that was three years old so I've raised her now she's 22 now and then we wound up having a son who's now 13 okay how so where'd you where'd you end up living I mean we stayed there um for the most part until 2010 and um at that point I was working for a company called new core steel and it's a pretty big steel company they're one of the biggest in the world, and I was working at a division in Columbia, which was about an hour and a half drive, but it was straight nights. I like just night shift. There was no swing shift.

It was just straight nights, and I hated it, especially after I had my son. Like, it was just, I was gone all the time, and even when you're home, you're just tired because you've been up all night, you know, and it was just not something I really wanted to continue with the career, but I didn't want to leave the company. And then they had an opportunity for the same company, but a different mill in Charleston. so we made the decision to move up to Charleston and we moved up here in 2010 um I got lucky because the housing market you know it just crashed recently and so I was able to come in and get houses that were built you know a year prior for you know hundreds of thousands of dollars

and get it for by half of what they paid for it so that worked out and then we all moved up here to Charleston and I stayed with the same company was working at the one up there the only difference there is you would work four days on and then you would have four days off so essentially you only worked half the year but it still would rotate nights to days so i had some nights mixed in there but nowhere near as much as the other place that was like straight nights right and uh i've worked i've worked nights before yeah i worked i worked out as a welder's helper for six months one time and it was it was the night shift it was was it was 84 hours a week or something like that I mean, it was straight.

It was every single day straight. You know, you got a per diem, but it was just hell. It was horrible. Like, by the time you drive back home, it's just in time to go to sleep, wake up, make your lunch, jump in the car, drive an hour and a half back. Horrible. Horrible. Yeah, it's awful. I mean, luckily, we didn't have to, I mean, the plant was close, so we didn't have to worry about the per diem.

But, I mean, it was nice in the sense that you get your schedule for the whole year. So I could look at a paper, and I know exactly what days I'm having off. So if I wanted to plan a vacation or whatever. you know a trip you can plan it inside of those four days and then you really wouldn't have to use vacation unless something just fell on a day where you were scheduled to work that you absolutely had or wanted to go to so it was nice and they were a great company too and it is beneficial to the part we'll get into a little bit later on uh once a year it's usually around march i think it is they give out what's called a yippie check and it's basically a portion of the profits

to every employee now they weren't doing as great obviously we talked about it was kind of the recession at this time, but they were still giving out about 9 to 12,000 per year. And that goes straight into your 401k and then you get like a portion of that deposited to you. So maybe a thousand. I think it might have been like 2,000 and they tax it. So you wind up getting like $1,000, something like that. Well, as the economy started getting better, those checks started getting better. So I think one of the last ones that I got was like about $15,000. So I mean, that's nice to go straight into your 401k. out of the, just out of the blue.

Yeah. Well, you know that you're going to get it. They call it yippy day every year. That check's going to come. So a lot of people look forward for that. They call the yippy day and then Black Day, because right after Black Day is when people that are on the edge of retirement, they make sure they get that yippy check. And then they go on about their business and retire.

But, I mean, it was a tough job. But, you know, fortunately, I was able to build up my 401K pretty substantially, which drastically helped out in the situation I would come to find. myself in a little bit later on okay so you're so you're living in Charleston everything's going good mm-hmm and what's going on with I mean marriage is good no problem so it was good I'd probably say if I had to put a pinpoint on like where things started there was a Carolina country music festival that was being held in Myrtle Beach and it was kind of like their

version of Woodstock you know there was I can't remember the people's names and that it was Eric Church was going to be there Lady Annabellum Cole Swindell just a lot of the top country singers at the time but they would start like middle of the day and then play up until you know late at night

and we seen this and we was like this would be a cool concert to go to so we went down there and I actually went down on Thursday night another one of my buddies met me my wife and a bunch of our other friends came down Friday but like it was pretty much just a

drink fest type concert. Right. And Saturday, another one of my buddies that came late, he was like a certified EMT. And he always telling you, he's like, you can't tell people I did that. So I can't tell his name. But he's seeing me and he's like, dude, he's like, you look awful. He's like, if you slept?

And I'm like, not much. And he's like, I got something for you. And he goes down to the car. He brings back an IV bag. And he hooks up the IV bag to me. And I'm sitting there in a chair and there's a picture. I have to see if I can find it and send it to you. But I'm sitting there in the chair.

I've got an IV bag hooked to me and I'm still getting a beer in my hand and then you can look on the counter behind me and there's like every liquor bottle you can think of on the counter behind me so it was a good time but now following that we go home he gave you the IV to

because he felt like you just had too much alcohol in your system yeah but you wanted to keep drinking yeah yeah I wanted to keep going I understand they do that in Vegas quite often unbelievable so yeah we finished this weekend the last concert was on sunday night and so get up

monday morning head back now mind you i haven't been home since i left work to go down there so i've got a lot of stuff i got to do to get ready you know wash clothes get ready to go to work next morning had to be to work at six in the morning so i'm leaving my house around five getting a car heading to work and there's really no other way to put it I just got sleepy and went off the road

you always have that sound when you go off the road that you notice like old shit you know but it was like I heard that sound for like two seconds and then I heard like a baseball bat hitting a light pole and it was just bough and at that point I could tell that I was airborne

and like for a minute there was nothing it was like I was floating and I was just like where did I run off? a cliff like what the hell's going on and it was just bam bam bam bam bam bam bam they were they were extending out a road making it a two lane into a single lane into two lanes on each side so they were digging out with the backhoe i hit the area where they stopped for the i guess for the day or for the time period and when i went off i hit like a huge section of concrete that was just there just sitting there and when i hit it it basically sent the

car in like a torpedo mode so i was flipping corner to corner not end over in and so i finally the car finally comes to a stop it's sitting upside down on another car and that was the only thing that i could visually see because it was dark i seen the windshield of that other car but at the time i didn't know if i was on the road so i'm like i might have just killed somebody you know i was really nervous but i have my seatbelt on it's probably the only thing that saved me really and i typically don't wear seatbelts, but I did that morning. So I'm trying to brace my below my head so when I undo my seatbelt,

I don't fall on my neck. As I'm doing that in Wiggling, it rolls off the truck onto the side. So now it's sitting like this with me in the top portion of the driver seat. So then I get out. The windows are all busted, but I had 10 on the windows,

so they're not like shattered everywhere, which was good. So I rolled it down, and I was able to literally just climb out of the top. So I climbed out, and I looked like the first thing I seen was like the driver's side front wheel was completely gone, wasn't there. And I get up there, I'm kind of sitting around, I'm trying to get my bearings, and this car comes riding by. And he's like, dude, are you all right?

And I said, I think so. And he's like, you need me to call somebody? And I was like, I said, yeah, I guess just call an ambulance, you know, maybe something's wrong that I haven't figured out yet. You know, I don't know. And he's like, well, you don't need me to stay, do you? I was like, no, I don't know if he was drunk or what he was. It's just like, no, go ahead. Just call them for me if you don't mind because I didn't know where my phone was.

So I was trying to pick out like the best place to hop down because I was like, I don't want to lift through this wreck, hop down, and that car move again and follow me. So I got down, I went, my phone was actually in my pocket. I never took it out, so I knew where that was. I walked up to this house, and the house was real distinctive. It was one of those houses where the whole house looked like a roof. And it come all the way down to almost like mid, you know, mid-level. level but it was a very odd built house and i remember like looking at it as i walked up like wow

this is a crazy looking house so i knocked him the door and the dude comes and he's like yeah and i'm like uh man i just had an accident out here with your pickup truck and he's like huh i said i landed on top of your pickup truck and he's like man that's my wife's truck she's had that thing since high school and i'm like well now my bad bro and he just shuts the door just shut it he didn't say you okay you want to drink anything i can do for you you know a cold rag nothing he just shut the door and walked away so i'm like all right guess he's going back to bed so i was waiting the ambulance got there looking around it's like you know where's the driver and i'm like i'm the driver and he's like where's the passenger i'm like it wasn't any passengers

and i know of it was just me i guess they couldn't believe that that wreck i was walking around because i'll show you some pictures of this wreck it's insane like every part of the car is dent it in, moonroof blown out, front bumper completely gone, tire completely gone. I mean, it was a mess. Like, even when we went later on to pick it up from the record, a guy asked how the driver was, and I was like, you're looking at him. He's like, ooh, I figured you'd have been gone. But this started a situation that I had to deal with in my back because I really did get

hurt. It wasn't something that was hurt like right off the bat, but it did develop me a lot of back problems that I still deal with. Did you go to the hospital? Yeah, I went to the hospital. So I called, after I was waiting, when he shut the door on me, I called my wife and let her know. Then I called my job and obviously let them know that I wouldn't be coming in. And the ambulance got there and my wife was on the way.

So by the time she got there, it looked a lot worse because they're transporting me to the hospital. So they've got me on a board. They've got tape wrapped around my head. They've got a neck brace on. I mean, I'm just, I look like I'm, you know, in bad shape. And she's panicking. and she's oh my god and i'm just like no it's cool they're just it's just precaution like i was literally just standing up two minutes ago so we go to the emergency room and they run test and x-rays

and the guy comes back out and he's like i don't know what your religion is or who you pray to he's like but just keep it up it's working i was like all right but then like a week later i started which i knew i was going to be sore the next couple days anyway that's always how wrecks are yeah and i started developing some pain in my lower back and it's like my l4 L5, L5, and S1 are just really, really damaged back there. And since then, I've been using different techniques to try to help it, different shots, cortisone shots, I mean, different things. They're saying it's not imperative enough to go in and require surgery to do it

because then you're going to have a permanent discomfort for the rest of your life. But if we can manage it to where you can, you know, get by without having to do it, it's better this way. So those are the steps I've been following since then. That particular incident kind of started a chain reaction because I was out of work for a little while. The job that I had got filled. I still had a job in the company, but the particular job that I had that time got filled. So I had to come back and take another job, which wasn't as desirable because there's, I mean,

this plant's got like five different divisions in the plant. I mean, there's hundreds of jobs. But the one that I had originally, I really, really liked. And I wound up having to go to another one. And that was kind of, I would say, what started the ballroom. rolling on problems and then what really kicked it into high gear was I had a friend of mine he lived two houses down from me this is a community much like you know the one we're in everybody's real close-knit and we had a group of friends that would get together on the weekends

and we our kind of tradition was we would go on Fridays to a Mexican restaurant hang out for a little bit then go back to one of our houses in the group and just hang out in the garage and chill out, you know. Well, this one particular Friday, I could tell that the guy and his wife wasn't getting along, which, I mean, I ain't going to say that was unusual, but they didn't, they didn't do it a lot to the point you go to say, oh, well, there they go again. Yeah, yeah. And, but I mean, great dude. Anytime I'd ever met him, always offered, you know, to bring something or, you know, great mood, wife, two kids, good job, off on Fridays, had a Harley bike boat, drove Mercedes like if you were to say give me a life as a 40-something year old man

that's the guy's life you won't right and so we leave there we go to a friend's house we're all sitting around you could tell he was probably drank you know one or two more drinks than usual and my wife calls me she's actually at another friend of ours house that's like right around the corner and she's like hey come over here and you know hang out with us for a little bit so i was like all right so i told everybody there by literally like down the street to the right That's where they live at. So I'm there maybe 15, 20 minutes. We're talking.

And then all of a sudden you hear the screen. But we have a lot of kids in our neighborhood. So we weren't sure if it was kids playing or whatever because it wasn't super late, maybe 10 o'clock. And then the more you heard it, you could tell it was like it was a serious style screen. Like something was wrong. And I remember real, real vividly because the song Johnny Cash Hurt was playing on the radio. So it was like it kind of gave it more earier. feeling the normal because I remember thinking like God and every time I hear that song I think

about this but so we go out and there's only from that guy's house we were at there's only like three houses up interest to the neighborhood but the first house is the couple that I was referring to so it's only like a two house gap between them and their house so I go running up and there's this woman rolling around in the ground just screaming screaming to the top of her lungs can't stop if she does stop and she takes a breath and start screaming again is this your buddy's wife Yes. I didn't know it at the time. For whatever reason, the guy who housed that I was with, he went straight in the house. I don't know what prompted him to do that.

But I thought, because there was a car stopped, I think just trying to figure out what was going on. I was thinking maybe there was a domestic something. Guy hit a girl. She's rolling around on the ground, something like that. So I go to the girl on the ground. Once I roll her over, I realize that's the couple that we were with at the Mexican restaurant. But she's already in like night clothes. I just left.

They were in, you know, street clothes. And I was just like, what the hell is going on? And she's like, he did it. He shot himself. And I was like, who? And she said his name. And I was like, oh, so I went, go running in the house. And the way his house was set up, you come in.

You had a dining room to the left, open area living room to the right. And then kitchen was like open to the dining room. And I seen a pair of feet, like hanging out. And when I cut the corner, the other friend of mine whose house we were at, you know, before when all this happened, he was. already had his head he had his shirt off he had like wrapped it around his head and at the end of the day what had happened was the guy put a gun on his mouth and he committed suicide and Matt when I tell you this was the worst thing I'd ever seen in my life like I'd never seen

nothing like it before I've been with I've been with family members that are older and passed away so I've seen death and I've seen people die but that was that's different like this was it was just I still I get more nightmares about that than I do anything that I've went through since then. And I think that was just something that kind of started me on a downward spiral. I'd say probably a depression too. And it led to me and my wife kind of arguing a great deal.

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Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. You didn't know, you knew the couple you'd had dinner with, but you weren't, like, were they part of your group? Yeah, I'd only recently met him, I'd say probably like two months. So we hadn't known each other, you know, like I said, years and years, but the, he was just one of people that as soon as he come in, he was going to click. whatever group he was with. So what did you find out happen? He just walked in there, pulled a fucking gun. Like, were, well, remember I told you, I could tell they were arguing at the dinner.

And from what I know, they had some arguments earlier on in the dinner. And there was a lot of stuff, I guess, behind the scenes that people didn't know. And it boiled over that night. And it was a situation where he had apparently threatened to do this a couple times. And so it was, you know, probably thought it was that again. But this time he actually went through with it. But this, I mean, he had never said that around any of the guys that have been with them. You know, hey, I'm battling, I'm struggling, you know, that was never done.

So obviously you hear that. You're thinking, well, he's probably doing that to control the woman, which is, you know, sadly, some people do that. You know, they'll threaten that to keep a woman under control. But like if I had to put money on any of my friends doing it, he would have been the last one to do it. Because, I mean, like I said, he had, on the surface, he had everything you wanted for a guy at his age. so okay so that slowly started leading to you know you and your wife start having problems like what are those arguments over uh at the time drinking um i just didn't want to be home i felt like if i was home i was just going to sit there and be miserable and it was you know and a lot of it

was my fault i'll square the the shoulders on a lot of it you know put the blame on my shoulders um you know we had had issues from before not I shouldn't say issues but we had had petty fights about stuff but like you know how women are sometimes they will come back up later on and I'm not that type of like when we put a problem or an issue to bed I don't want to bring it up again in six months yeah yeah you know and sometimes that would happen and it was just like it was getting to the point to where I told my wife was like you know what we need a break and and I thought it was the right thing to do. I didn't say, you know, it's over, you know, don't ever want to see you again. I eventually led to that while we were going to get a divorce. But at first, we was just like,

hey, we need a break. We need to separate. And once we separated, I let her stay in the house that we were living at. And I moved into someone's house that was still in the neighborhood that was around the corner. And I told him, I was like, or told her, I was like, look, I said, if you start seeing somebody, like, you got to let me know, because I'm not. going to be paying the bills at this house and another dude coming over sitting on my couch and watching ESPN on my TV, you know what I'm saying? So eventually that did start to happen. She did meet somebody. And I figured she would meet somebody. I mean, my wife's a great chick, you know, and I put, she's got her, she went and got her master's. She just recently got her

doctorate. So like, she's very smart. And she brings a lot to the table. So I knew if she started to be actively looking, it would not take long for someone to jump on that. So I didn't even have a problem with the guy, you know, doing that. If I would have been in his situation, I would have jumped at the chance, too. So when this happened, this is around, this is in 2017, the guy's suicide was in like August, July, August. This is around November when she tells me that, you know, she met someone. And I'm just like, all right, well, remember the transition?

I told you, you know, you got to slide on out, wherever goes up to you. And November the first, it was a day after Halloween. I remember we went over there and took my son trick-or-treating. and then the next day she moved out to another house the way our neighborhood is set up you've got like five different communities so you have mine which is like old rice then you have you know two or three more all the way back i mean it goes from miles yeah that's like this one you saw all the different subdivisions yeah all located in one massive community right and that's exactly what we are and she moved in one about three subdivisions back and i mean i broke her balls for a little bit about them like you couldn't have moved like you know 10 minutes away you know something like that and then i've got to a bump into you at Publix or something. But, you know, it still wasn't a hateful. It wasn't like we hated each other. And, you know,

that was the situation. I mean, she was doing her thing. She met the guy. The guy moved in. I was doing my thing. And it was what it was. We were going to get a divorce. Did you know the guy? No. I had no idea who he was. He was not from around here. He had recently moved here. And so

we were going forward with everything. We agreed we were going to get a divorce, partly because I could give her some of my money from my 401K, and I was actually, it was kind of a workaround for me. I was going to pull more out, agree to pull more out than what she wanted, and then she was going to give it back to me. Right. So if she only wanted to pay the fees. Right. You don't have to pay the fees and all that. It was a way for me to kind get an early withdrawal, basically, a little workaround. So if the IRS is listening, that didn't happen. So we're good. That's fine. No harm, no foul. So that was a plan. So I hired a divorce attorney and we just really didn't talk until around the month of December

we were trying to figure out like how we were going to do things with the kids and you know who was going to go where what was going to go what and we were just talking and I'm like you know how's things going with you and she's like eh not too good this that and the other and you know I was kind of you know messing with her I was like I told you know you're going to have a hard time trying to find somebody that's going to put up with all your shit you know and uh slowly but surely we started kind of talking again But I think we both weren't sure if it was something we wanted to restart, but there was definitely still love there.

You know, and that's, that was normal. Yeah, that's very common. Yeah. I was actually saying that to Connor. I was like, you know, guys will like, you can have a breakup and then you'll, it's funny, even couples that are at each other's throat, you still, every couple of weeks, you might get that phone call like, can you come over? You know, you're like, fuck.

Yeah. You come over, you stay the night, you get up and leave the next morning, next thing, you know, two weeks later. Even though you're seeing somebody else, you know, there's that slight overlap until you get to a point where you're like, one of those two people says, yeah, we're not doing this anymore. Yeah. I'm with this person. This is over. But there's usually that kind of, you know, or even sometimes it's just a matter of this person has been in your life so long. Things happen and you need somebody to tell.

Yeah. You know, so you tell the person that you were closest to, even though it's not working out. Yeah, and that was a lot with me and her. Like, you know, we've had a lot of people pass away in her family. Her dad, who was hugely important in her life, he passed away. And that was like really put a number on her later on her aunt, suddenly, shockingly died. She had a brain tumor.

And their family structure, she was only just a couple years older than my wife. So even though that was her aunt, they were more like sisters because the time gap wasn't a or age gap wasn't very huge they both had daughters that were the same age so you know we've been through a lot together and and I think to your point that's exactly what it was and sometimes you know you just need family yeah and people this you know you know your backstory and aren't going to judge you for it and you know things that's happened and I think that was a lot of what led us back together because there was no doubt we loved each other it was just to a point to where it was becoming that Pam and Tommy relationship right and um and

And, well, we kind of was seeing each other on and off. And that lasted through Christmas. We seen each other a little bit through Christmas. And fast forward to, that kind of went off and on for the next couple months. Then we got to Easter. And at this point, the guy was living with her at her home. He had then moved out. I think in January, he left to go back home and was going to stay home.

I'm not sure what happened. And home for him, I think was Pennsylvania, I think. But something happened and he didn't wind up staying and he came back. But when he come back, he didn't live there. Now, he would still come, but he didn't live there. And when it got to around Easter, I was just like, look, you know, if we're going to do this, let's do it. Let's give it a shot. Let's put everything we got into it because it's probably be like one done.

If we don't get it this time, you know, it's probably time to push the chips in. I was like, but he's going to have to go. You're going to have to tell him, you know, you're coming back here. Just tell him, you know. and that was kind of what set everything in motion because we were together for a whole weekend. We went to her moms for Easter weekend. We went to Myrtle Beach,

stayed up there for like four days, and then we come back on a Thursday, come back on a Friday, Friday. And my son had a soccer game the next day on a Saturday. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown

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And she's like, yeah, I'll tell him. So at the soccer game, I'm sitting there, and she comes up, and I was like, well, how do you take it?

And he's like, he didn't take it. She said he came in, said his head was killing and he went straight to bed. Now, this guy was a former vet and he had diagnosed PTSD. So some of the meds

that he was on when he would come home he would take him and just pass right out right and i don't know all the names of the meds and stuff that he was on but that's generally what would happen so she said all right i'm going to tell him today and i was like okay you let me know what's going on you know just keep me in the loop if he need me call me let's fast forwards to i'd say probably about six o'clock she said she told him and he was pissed and he left and he grabbed his dog he had a service dog and she's like but i know he's not gone because he still got to come back to get all of his stuff And I'm like, all right, well, you might better go back there because if he sees you here, then he's really going to get pissed.

And so this is probably like eight or nine o'clock. I'm with some friends of mine around the corner. The same guy, we're going to circle back around to the same guy that I was with the night that my friend shot himself. Right. He calls me. And he knew what was going on. He knew the situation because he's a good friend of mine. He knew that we had split up.

Then he knew we were about to reconcile, but he also knew about the other guy. And he called me and he was like, hey, where are you at? And I said, I'm at a friend of mine's around the corner. He knew the guy's name was Nate. And he said, well, if you come by here and you see the guys, I don't really remember what I want to say his name. He was like, if you see someone who's truck here, you know, don't stop. And I'm like, all right, well, you want to give me a little bit more on that? You know, what's going on?

And he said, well, they come riding by. And he said, I went up to the car and it was like, you know, hey, guys, what's going on? And he said, I could tell your wife was visibly shaking. And he said, I asked him, what's up? me. He said, oh, I'm just looking for Chip because when I find him, I'm going to kill him. Now, I didn't know this, that all this was going on. So I'm trying to call her phone to figure out what's happening. Her phone's going straight to voicemail because I guess when he came back,

things got violent. He was punching holes in the wall. He broke her phone. Apparently roughed her up a little bit, but I had no way to find all this out because her phone was smashed. So later on, he calls me again and he said, hey, I'm going to have him at my house he said if you come by here it's just going to be him but he's like i'm going to try to talk figure out what's going on but if you ride by here you know just don't stop i don't want anything going on at my house i'm like all right you know that's fine so i go back to my house i'm just sitting there i think i was watching like a ufc or something on tv and my daughter calls me she worked he knows where you live though right yeah yeah he knows he knew but my car wasn't at my

house when they were looking for me i wasn't home oh okay so So had I been home when he was making her drive around looking for me, he probably would have stopped by and things would have maybe who knows how they went at that point in time. But by the time, you know, I get home, this is probably like 1230 because it's like the main event of the UFC's coming on right then, which is why I went to my house to watch it. So it's probably at least 12.31 o'clock because they come on pretty late, East Coast time. And I talked to my daughter. She worked at the Mexican restaurant that I was talking about earlier.

I said, I called her. I said, when you get home, let me know your mom's okay. So she gets home and then she calls me from my daughter's phone. She's like, yeah, she's like, he got upset, but she said, Jamie got him. He's at Jamie's house. You know, don't worry about it. He's going to be staying there. And so I'm thinking, all right, well, he's going to be staying there.

They're good. I'm good. So I'm in bed watching the UFC. And then all of a sudden I get a text, but it's from his phone. And he said, hey, are you home? And I text back. I said, yeah, I'm home. And he was like, can me and you talk?

And I was like, yeah, about what? And he was like, man, he said, I don't want no drama. I don't want no BS. He said, but I feel like I'm being lied to on certain situations. And he said, I feel like you'll tell me the truth. And he's like, if you want to, we can meet at Jamie's house, which was my friend right down the street. And I was like, okay, that's fine.

And so my thinking is here is if I can diffuse this situation, because obviously he's pissed because he thinks this has been going on while he's there, that he wasn't privy to it, been going on. So I'm a pretty smooth talking. I'm thinking, I can diffuse this. Yeah. And just think, hey, maybe she just wants to come back on. So we go down there and that's exactly what it was. He was just saying, you know, I want to know how long you guys have been talking. You know, I was like, what I start with, that's still my wife. So it's really none of your business, how long we've been talking. But to answer your question, like this just, we just decided this both recently and so it would go from like high tension to back to being nothing at

all to i'd say fast forward two hours and it was basically like three guys sitting in the garage talking just with weird extenuating circumstances right but we go to leave and this is now this is probably like 2 30 about a time we get together there we're talking probably 430 the guy whose house we were at was like all right i'm fixing to shut it down he's like if you want to stay here you can stay here. He said, or you get Chip to run you home, whatever you want to do. And I looked at him and he was like, he said, do you care, you know, running me home? I was like, no, I don't care. So we shut the garage. And then he's like, you know, man, I don't know if I want to go home. He said, I know if we go home. We're going to start fighting.

And my house from his house is like six houses down the other way. And he said, do you care if we go to your house? I'm like, no, I don't care. Because at this point, I didn't perceive this guy as a threat. Right. I'm not going to say we were friends, but, you know, I just didn't perceive him as of being violent. So we go and we pull in, during the time we were talking in the garage, the story I just referenced you about the guy to commit a suicide came up. Well, I don't know if he was trying to match the story or, you know, to say something similar, but he held up his wrist and he was talking about a bracelet that he had.

He's like, do you know why I wear this? And I'm thinking, no, I would not know why you wear that. But I said no. And he told me the story of a guy that he was in service with. He was in the Army. that they were together in combat and he the guy got shot in the head he was trying to save him but whatever he did wasn't the proper protocol and they kicked him out of the army for it whatever they call you that um they got a name for it when they not dishonorably disonorably charged

I think maybe dishonorably charged dishonorably discharged maybe that might be what it is but in actuality that wasn't even true I didn't find out later it was partly true. true. I didn't find out later to he was never actually in like battle. He was intelligence. He sent a guy into somewhere with his intelligence that got that individual killed, which was what got him booted out, which was why he was diagnosed with PTSD because it did bother him, which was also the reason why right before him and my wife met, he had just gotten out of a mental institution in Alabama, which she didn't know until much, much later in the relationship. so that was the correlation but he put it like he was there himself right when in actuality he was

kind of behind the scene still it was still his fault and you could tell it bothered him like he was crying he cried in the car so at that point I'm really thinking this dude just maybe just need somebody to talk to you know now he's losing you know what he thought was his relationship and you know maybe he just needs someone to talk to so we go in my house you know looking around just talking different things this is probably four o'clockish somewhere along in that neighborhood you know

had a we each did a shot we're talking about different things and we get them to subject to tattoos and we were talking about another one of my friends and moms he's like well she's always said you know crappy things about people

with tattoos he's like you're covered in them does she ever say anything to you and I was like no she ain't ever said nothing to me I said I got them all over and I kind of pulled down my shirt slightly and he's seen this one on my chest and when he's seen it he reached at the bottom of my shirt and pulled my

shirt up to see it and when he did he noticed if you see right here I got an open heart surgery scar right there okay when he seen that scar he was like damn he's like what happened there and I said I had open heart surgery my senior year in high school and he's like you know just you had a heart attack and I was like no I said it was something that they knew from birth it was a they called it a VSD basically a hole in the heart I said but my senior year they were able to tell that the hole was bigger than what they thought and that if it was going to be repaired better to be repaired then up under my mom's insurance than to do it later on, you know, later on life where the complications might be worse.

Right. So senior in high school, I missed half my year for getting the heart surgery done. And when he's seen that, he was kind of like, you could just tell his whole demeanor kind of just changed. And you know how when people, especially when they've had too much to drink, they do that shit where they like bro hug, you know, and kind of like bear hug you and pick you up. So he'd done that. And I didn't think much of it at the time that he did it.

I just, you know, I didn't never been around a guy. I didn't know how he could hold his alcohol. I didn't know how much he had to drink. I know he was drinking at the garage, and then when we got back to my house, he had two Landshark beers, and then we each shared a shot. Law enforcement often questions him,

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So he goes to the bathroom and I kind of move to where my stove is. Now my kitchen is set up basically like an L. So you have the refrigerator here and a hallway here. After a refrigerator and you got to stove and it curves back around in the sink. So it's very tight and confined. I'm sitting up against a stove just, you know, chilling, waiting on him to get out. I actually think I was responding to some messages throughout the night. I even text my wife from my son's phone.

I'm just like, hey, everything's good. You know, he's actually with me. We're just talking, trying to make sure everything's good before I bring him back over there. He comes out of the kitchen or out of the bathroom, into the kitchen. He comes straight up to me, and the first thing he does is, like, grabs me and jacks me up. So, of course, like, my ass goes up onto a stove.

I'm trying to figure out what, like, what the hell's going on? And he's like, I'm going to fucking kill you. And I'm just like, I thought he was joking for a minute, but then, like, the more I could feel his hand, And I seen that look in his eyes. I was like, all right, this dude's not joking. So I was able to get down off the stove. He tries to like knee me, bring up his knee.

So I turned my body a little bit. He still got me slightly, but he didn't really get it full effect. And I told him, I was like, dude, if you don't get off me, I'm going to shoot you. And he goes back. He cocks back his right hand. And I'll jump back one second. Whenever he pulled up that shirt to see that scar, he had to see that I was, I had a gun on me because that's where it was. And I was a CWP carrier.

I had been for years. since I was 18 years old. So it was normal for me to have a gun on me because I know that was the first thing. Why did you have a gun? I'm a CWP holder. I always have a gun. I'd had it for years. And I've been pulled over with that same gun with those numbers ran.

So there's documentation that that's the gun that I carry around. Well, when he swings, he's holding me with his left. He's swinging with his right. He kind of like clips my chin. So he doesn't hit it fully. So as his body's turning, he lets go with his hand. So at that point, I step back. back into the corner, literally in a corner, and he's already coming back at me, and I pulled

it out and I shot. I thought it was twice. Turns out it was three times. I didn't learn that until later. And that's a guy thing. You know, guys will talk junk to each other, you know, maybe via text message or maybe in face-to-face, but when you put hands on somebody, like, that's another level. And then I don't know this guy really like that. And, you know, with the situation that he just talked about. I obviously know he's got some things going on mentally. He is getting told that, you know, we're getting back together. And then he tells me he's going to kill me. I got to take him at his word. Yeah. And he's in your house. Yeah. It's a bad situation. He's drinking. He's attacking you. And the, the, what I don't, what I, I always find. So whenever you hear about like a

police shooting or they wrestled and people are like, well, they didn't have to shoot him. Well, wait a minute. The officers armed. So you think, oh, he could have just. You. Oh, he could have just. just wrestled with him. No, there's a gun there. That can go so badly, so quickly that the moment that person says, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to fight you and I have a gun, I've got to pull my gun. Because the chances that you could get the gun and kill me and you're the one who's being aggressive means that I have to stop the situation immediately. I can't get into a, it's not like we can get into a wrestling match and we're going to break it apart. You're attacking me. I have a gun. I could get shot with my own gun. If anybody's getting shot and I've got a gun, it's going to be you.

you're attacking me yeah that's the whole stand your ground yeah you know stand your ground castle law absolutely and you're in my house like what do you like every single step of this situation is just not in his favor exactly and he's already telling somebody prior to find driving around looking for him telling people i'm going to kill him you thought you defused the situation goes to your house attacks you like and that was exactly what what you just said because i the the surger i mentioned earlier about the back issues, the surgeries that I was having at the time, they would go in and they would basically burn the nerve endings away from the spine. And it would hurt for a couple weeks. But then after that, you would have pretty good pain relief for about six to eight months

because these nerve endings will reattach themselves. And I just had this done about a week before this happening. So my mobility was already like very limited in this. And plus, you know, this was a big dude. Like he's former military. I mean, he was a big guy. so it was really I didn't have any choice because it was like when he's telling me that I got to take him at his word and at that point like the first thing in my head was like one of us ain't coming out of his kitchen right and that was that was just it and as soon as I shot him he dropped I was just you know the first instinct was like what the fuck just happened so I put the gun down picked up the phone immediately called 911 I didn't touch him I didn't move anything I didn't mess with anything because at my point in my mind I haven't done anything wrong. Right. I've defended myself in my house. Now, the 911 call, which there's portions of it available online, has become a huge

point of contention because when I was on the phone, the first thing that I said was I had a friend of mine in my house. He started hitting me. I had no choice. I had to shoot him. The friend of mine thing got blown real out of proportion because people was like, well, they weren't friends. And I'm just like, I didn't have time to tell the whole fucking story to the 911 operator.

I just sum it up. Yeah, I'm like, all right, well, he's dying, but wait a minute. Let me tell you this long story for 20 minutes. I just, it was the first thing that I could think of to get her to there because it wasn't a robber. I didn't want to think he was robbing me. Right. But that was the first thing that I said.

Yeah, maybe not the best choice of words, but you try being in a situation and coming up with a better explanation to get him there. My main thing is I just wanted him to get there. Yeah. And so I talked to the 911 operator and she's like, you know, how is he? This that and the other. Is he breathing? Is he talking?

Is he moving? And I'm telling him what he was doing. never talked he was making some some noises and she was like you know you have a towel nearby and I said yeah there's one of my bathroom she said you go get the towel and place it over the wounds I run in the bathroom I yanked the towel

I yanked the towel so hard off the bathroom wall that it brings the whole damn bracket with you know the little bracket to hang your towel so I go back I pull up his shirt and I see two small wounds that looks like if you would take a pencil and just stab through paper them very very small right and I put the towel over that and I hold it to the police get there

sit there and I'm on the she's like you know is the door unlocked I said yeah she's like you know make sure the gun's unloaded out of sight you don't want to have that on you when the cops get there I'm like it's on the counter it's unloaded I was like the door's unlocked they can just come on in whatever they want to do and she said okay the officer's there she said we need you to go outside with your hands up so I go outside hands up they cuffed me but he doesn't say I'm under arrest he just said we got to see what's going on so he cuffs me puts me in the car he was the first officer on the scene so he goes in and checks everything out then there's another officer and then cops just keep coming keep coming and you'd imagine

if something out like that happens in one of these streets and all these streets are filled with cops every neighbor's because at this point it's 630 7 in the morning every neighbor's like looking out the window what the hell's going on I'm sitting out there in a cop car in the back seat there's ambulances there now there's like the fire EMS is there now I mean it's the whole street is pat and i'm just sitting there waiting and i see him finally bring him out and they get on uh they get in the ambulance they leave still nobody's come to me for anything finally a female cop comes back and she reads me my rights and asked me if i'm you know wants to answer any questions and i told her no not without a lawyer so that was that part so i knew they couldn't ask me anything else

i'd say probably another hour goes by and i'm still in there and i'm kind of nodding to one of the cops like telling him to come here and he's like yeah and i was like dude i got to go to the bathroom he's like i don't know what to tell you you're going to have to hold it and i was like no i don't know what to tell you like there's no holding it's about to happen it can happen in this car in this yard or in the house but like i got to go so they let me go or they took me out they took me upstairs into my house and they was like you know there's somewhere here you can change clothes and i'm like yeah this is my house i sold everything enters my house so we go upstairs change clothes they take all the clothes that I have on that day, shirt, pants, boots, all that stuff,

which is, I guess, common. And I changed clothes, and he asked me if there's anywhere I can go until everything gets resolved. And I'm like, well, yeah, there's a, by this time, I mean, people that I knew in that neighborhood were, like, sitting around the house and golf carts, just trying to figure out what the hell was going on. So I go, and I pick one up. I'm like, hey, I'm going to go hang out at your house until they finish. And he's like, all right. So I told him what the address was, and we go over there.

and it's like probably eight in the morning, nine in the morning at this point. You know, I'm still having been to bed yet. I mean, just, you know, adrenaline is still through the roof. And I'm waiting, and he pulls back up. One of the detectives pulls back up, and he's like, are you ready to answer some questions for us? And I was like, well, no, like I said, not without a lawyer.

And he's like, well, who's your lawyer? Well, at the time, I was using my divorce lawyer, who was also a former cop. So I told him his name. And he's like, well, I know him. He's like, well, we'll get together Monday morning. And, you know, we'll give you some questions. answer and we'll go through that he says so just look to get with him sometime monday morning to answer

our question and i don't know if you're going to come in or write a statement or what i'm like okay so i said i'm free to go back home and they said yeah you're free to go and i was like you know what about you know is there any mess and he's like he said i don't think there's much he said but that's not on us to clean up he said that's on you because at all they do is handle the crime scene and then they leave it doesn't matter what's left that's not that is not their responsibility to clean up well by this time somebody had already called my mom my mom lives about two hours away so she's there when I come back obviously she's hysterical and when we went in the house there really wasn't a lot there like there was very very little blood so much to the fact

if she took like two paper towels and just wiped the floor and then it was done that was it so it's not like on TV when you see somebody shoot somebody and the whole wall gets covering in blood it was it was not like that at all matter of fact the whole situation while I was there I never seen blood at all. So the day goes by, get up Monday morning. I think I might have slipped a couple hours that night. It was still just everything. We just still 100 miles an hour. So I go to my lawyer's office. We write a statement. We send it to them. They obviously want to talk to my wife. She goes. She gives a statement. Then on Wednesday, I see my lawyer call him and he's like, hey, I got some bad news. And I'm like, what? And he's like, they're charging you a murder. And I was like,

why and he was like i don't know did you ever think that was coming no especially not after they let me go like that morning i figured i was probably going to have to go to jail but once they figured out what happened everything happened especially with you know all the proof there right they would let me go that was what i was thinking but then when they didn't even take me to jail you thought you're never i'm never doing yeah this is this is they realized what happened yeah this is clear cut because the way everything happened in that kitchen I'll get into this a little bit more a little bit, but like everything was backed up just by the way stuff happened.

So two out of the three shots went through and through. One of them hit my refrigerator and then bounced and hit a wall. The other one hit like a 24 pack of water that was sitting beside the refrigerator. The other one struck that. So what that did was that proved that I said I was standing in the corner. Right. It proved that I was standing in the corner. Otherwise, you can't get that indentation on that refrigerator to bounce over here.

if you're anywhere else but where I told you. Also, a shell casing was recovered in the sink, which when you're in that corner, shell casing or sinks to the right, shell casings are ejected to the right and back. So everything was lining up that way. And trust me, I did not have the wherewithal at that time

to go start checking all this stuff out. Right. You know, measuring stuff and looking for stuff. It was just, I didn't need to lie. I didn't need to tell anything that didn't happen because everything was the truth. and it was backed up by what I said. Right.

So he tells me they're going to do that. And I'm just like, dude, you know, I don't really know about you handling this. I was like, no disrespect. But like, if you handled a case like this before and he's like, well, I've handled a few. He's like, but if you want to look for other options, he's like, that's on you. He's like, you know, I won't get mad or upset. He's like, this is the one case that you got to deal with. So I start hanging up the phone and calling people that I know around the area and I'm like,

who's the best attorney for this? And I keep hearing one name over and over and over. again. It's Andy Savage. Even from towns where I grew up in in Darlington calling guys there, you know, big, big shot lawyers, Andy Savage, Andy Savage, Andy Savage. I hear that name probably 10 times. I don't think I heard a different name when I was telling him what was going on. So at this point, it's late in the day on Tuesday. They want me to turn myself in on Wednesday. So it's like, we're talking less than 24 hours here. I got to turn myself into jail. So I called his, they were closed, but you have like a 1-800 number or whatever you can leave a message and it gets checked.

And if it's important enough, then they contact him. Left a message told him what was going on. He calls me, kind of gets a little gist of it. He said, I don't want to know everything. He said, just give me the broad strokes. When are you supposed to be turning yourself in? I told him, he said, be at my office at 6.30 tomorrow morning. I was like, all right.

So me, my wife, my mom, they carry me up there. 630 and we basically break down the story. Kind of just at this point from what we knew told him everything and he was like, why are we here? And I was like, your guess is as good as mine, bro. I don't know. Like, you know, they can't even paint this as a jealousy thing because

he wasn't the one, he would be the one that would be the jealous one, not me. Right. Like, it's not like this just happened. Yeah, it's not like he took your wife and you brought, lured him to your house and shot him. Right. This is him, he's getting his walking papers. He's getting the booty. Exactly.

And usually nine times out of ten, you probably know this. Whoever's where they're not supposed to be is the one with the problem. Right. That's typically how it is. And he was just like, is it an election year? Is somebody trying to make a statement? And I'm just like, I don't know. I just know I didn't do anything wrong.

So huge amount of money we got to come. Good lawyers are not cheap. If anybody out there that finds themselves in need of an attorney, they're worth every penny. Or the right ones could be, mine was. But they are not cheap. But the reason they're not cheap is, like, as I'm sitting here telling him this stuff, like I'm mentioning names, this, that, and the other papers are just being printed. Stuff on the guy, on me, on everything, on his, you know, military records.

I mean, just everything that could be pulled was being pulled, like, almost verbatim as I'm saying it. Like, it was literally, that scene was like something out of a movie, everything that was being done. And he goes and he said, when are you supposed to turn yourself in? I said, today, like in a couple hours. 12 o'clock and he's like give me a minute so he comes back and he's like all right i got your uh you you don't have to go till friday he's like but i'm gonna try to get it pushed back till sunday he said i'm telling him i'm taking you on as a client you know we're gonna we need some time to get stuff ready so basically what he needs for me is he's like you know reach out

to everybody you know get some character letters wrote up you know talking about who you are what kind of person you are he said we'll present that with a joke to a judge for bond he's like typically in situations like this i like to tell people to just sit in jail for a while and wait and let the heat die down he's like but in your case i don't really see any reason why you should have to do that because he actually represented i don't know if you remember the case but uh mark schlager where uh walter scott it was a video of the guy running away and the cop shot him like nine times oh yeah was unarmed yeah well there's there's more to it than that but uh my lawyer was walter scott's lawyer i'm no excuse me uh mark schlager's lawyer um and he actually got him off

on the local trial, but then the state come in and you can get him off. He got him off on the state and then the feds come in. He actually got found guilty in the feds. But so he was. But that wasn't for murder in the feds? It was for, wasn't it for like violation, his civil right? It was something along those lines, yeah, because he got, I want to say he got like 17, 18 years.

I could be off on the number. But listening to the CSI guy that we wound up getting from my case, done a podcast, breaking down like that Walter Scott actually used the taser on Schlager and which gave him right to be able to fire. Then you have to tie in, you know, was all the, what all happened before the video got put on. But that's, you can talk for a whole other show just about that alone. That's craziness.

But that was the same guy that, you know, represented him. And so we got all the stuff together. We got all the character letters together. And then he wound up, did getting it pushed back until Sunday. He's like, you don't have to turn yourself into Sunday at 1 o'clock. So I'm like, you know, a couple days. At least you don't have to sit in jail over the weekend. Yeah, sit in jail over the weekend.

That's a couple days. So we're trying to get everything together. We get care. I think I got like 65 character letters from different people. I would have had a lot more, but some of my friends are felons. And they're like, I don't know if I should write one. And I'm just like, well, maybe you're right. Just keep your letter.

I was like, I appreciate it, but just keep your letter. And so we go in and everybody comes down to my house like that weekend. weekend say I don't want it to sound like we wouldn't care it was almost like a party right like going away party kind of like everybody come we eat you could tell there was like an uncomfortableness amongst everybody but it was kind of like you know just in case something goes wrong if they do decide to keep me or whatever reason it was just one last time everybody's getting together so we get together we eat everybody hangs out and then Sunday morning um me and my wife got in the back of the car and my mom and stepdad

took me to jail and dropped me off and, you know, I hugged everybody before I went in because I didn't know what was going to happen. I mean, getting bond for murder is not an easy thing. Right. A lot of times you don't get bond for murder. You have to stay in for a while. So it was a, I went in there not really knowing what was going to happen.

I go in and, you know, sit down on the bend. I'd never been arrested before, mind you. I want to make this clear. I'm not somebody that's a frequenter of the county jail. I'd never been arrested before in my life. and so but this was a big one to go in there for and I sit down on the bench and there's this guy and you could tell he was like an old biker guy

or whatever you know probably had a little bit too much to drink and he's like a bench of shame huh I was like yeah guess you could say that you know because I'd always been told you know just don't talk don't talk just stay quiet stay yourself so he says that and they fingerprint us and excuse me do all that good stuff

take us to the holding room and he sits by me and he's like talking talking talking and then they come to see the magistrate well i already knew that with my charge a magistrate couldn't grant me bond i had to go in front of the circuit court well they take me another younger kid that guy all to the room now we're handcuffed wrist to wrist ankle to ankle having to shimmy down the hall and one by one my last name is williamson so i'm always going to be last and everything they call the first kid was like possession of marijuana you know p r bond he goes that was DUI second offense.

You'll have to get somebody to bail you out. Mr. Williamson, you're being charged of murder and a violent crime. And when that guy, when he said that, the guy that I've been talking to this whole time, he's just like, and he just kind of start scooting down away.

So I was like, you know, yes, sir, I know I have to see the circuit court. We go back into the room. He immediately comes straight in, picks the stuff where it was that, ghosted opposite. Swooner in the room. Don't say nothing else.

me the rest of the time. That's funny. Yeah. So I was like, well, at least I can get some little peace and quiet here, but that didn't last very much long either because this is like the holding tank, you know, as people are getting arrested, everybody goes into this tank until it starts to get full and then they'll start dispersing you out into the pods of the prison. But I knew I had court the next morning at 9 a.m. So I'm still in street clothes. And we have court 9 a.m. They come and get me. And I'm in a room with all like people that have been there for a while. One guy had just set a sister on fire. He's waiting to see the circuit court judge.

And that's the thing is like you have to see the circuit court. The circuit court rotates throughout the county. So if I'd have went in there and they would have been in another county, say Dorchester County, I'd have to wait until they rolled back around to my county, which was Berkeley County. Luckily, they were in Berkeley County that week. So I didn't have to wait. I was able to literally go to court for it the next day. So I caught a break on that.

He's in there, like I said, he said, his sister on fire. He comes back in, happy, smiling, because he only got 14 years because he could have got 30. Another guy's in there saying how he's going to go to Atlanta to, he's going to tell the cops, he's going to testify against somebody to get him locked up, but he's really going to Atlanta because Atlanta's prisons got better food, and he'll get better food for a couple weeks because the prison food where, I guess we were at here was horrible. One other guys in there talking about if he sees another guy. and so and so in the court.

He's going to kill him right there. I mean, I'm listening to all this being said. And I'm just like, geez, I'm saying to myself like, Jesus. I'm just around about some real fucking derelicts. Yeah, like, these are some real fucking dudes. Like, there's no bullshit in here. And I'm just sitting there and one of them. And I was like, like, I hope nobody asked me like what I'm in there for.

And sure enough, when I was like, you know, what you're in there for? Family court? And, uh, because they were all in like the jumpsuits and I'm in regular street clothes. So I'm in like, yeah, something like that. And then one guy knew He was like, you're the kid from Cane Bay And I'm just like, I kind of looked at him I was like, yeah, he's like, we got TVs in here

We see the news just like everybody else And I'm like, yeah, that's me He's like, you got a lawyer? And I said, yeah, and he was like, who? And I say Andy Savage, he was like, Hmm, you're all right. And again, this first time I'd ever met this dude I never needed a lawyer before, but everybody

knows this guy's name. So we go in there, they finally called me up. I'm in here for God, what seemed like an hour and the walk from the county lockup where you're at in the Holden to get to the courtroom is like underground, like a dungeon. So, I mean, like, we're walking through there, and I'm just, every horror movie's playing in my head, like, dung, dung, dung, I mean, it was just really, really scary looking.

So we get over there, we go in massive courtroom. I mean, huge flags, everything, the courtroom's packed full of people. I just never been anything like this in my life. So I go shoot me over to my lawyer, their lawyer for the state's arguing that I shouldn't be giving bond, that I'm in danger to the community, yada, yada, yada, yada. My lawyer's saying, look, this guy's never been in trouble. He's had a good job. He's an upstanding member of his own community. Everybody knows him.

You know, so they fight back and forth. Well, any court show that I've ever seen, when a judge makes a ruling, she makes it right then, you know, either bond granted or bond denied. Right. So I'm waiting, and she goes, okay, I'll make my decision to let you guys know. bang and hits the gavel and I'm just like well that's not what I was planning on something I looked at my life I was like what the fuck is that mean he's like I guess that means she'll let us know yeah and so they're automatically like taking me off you know I'm looking back kind of like you know whispered mouth into my family know I love y'all I've seen all them in the back

so they're taking me back to the room and you got to get on this thing where they you know rearrange your cuffs and put it back like you were and I asked the guy I was like so what does that mean she'll get back with me like what does that mean exactly he's like ah she'll probably having an answer in a week or so. I'm like, a week or so. What the fuck? So we get back in and I'm just like, I didn't even know that was a thing. Like, I thought they were supposed to give you an answer right then. So I called my wife on the phone after about an hour or two from jail. And I was like, all right, what the fuck is going on? And she said, well, she's already made her decision. She's going to give you bond. She's like, but they might not process the paperwork

until tomorrow. So you might have to stay in there another night. I'm just like, all right, Well, if I got to, I can do another night. I didn't really sleep much anyway. And so I was like, all right, I can do another night if you need be. She said, but you may still get out. I don't know. I was like, all right. So this is like three, four, an afternoon.

Like nine. And people are still getting out at this time. That paperwork process takes a while. So seven, eight, nine o'clock, people are still getting out. Hey, you're going home. Hey, you're going home. But you're pretty much thinking I'm staying the night. I was hoping, but I was planning on staying the night.

But I just figured nobody would come for me if I wasn't getting out because you know when they come it's usually say hey you're getting out yeah so about nine 30 they don't come in to say we're just checking on yeah just making sure you're okay you're needing a good space room service anything yeah they're not real concerned about you so no and the guy and i also mentioned this really quick the guy the um the biker guy was in there i swore i thought this dude was going to die right there in the cell he had asthma and they refused to give him his inhaler and this dude i mean he looked like he was trying to breathe air through a flat and straw yeah i mean And every time he would ask about it, they would say, okay, we'll look into it.

We'll let you know. Oh, they'll let you die. Yeah. I was like, this dude is going to fucking die if they don't give him something. Yeah. You're seeing people as does happen to it? From exactly that. Asthma, they wouldn't give him this handler.

They said, oh, the next day, it'll be tomorrow. He's like, no, you don't understand. I'm not a, whatever, there's different classifications. If I don't have it, I'll die. They were like, yeah, well, I don't know what you want to tell you. Go, go back to your fucking. Like, they don't give a fuck. Yeah.

And then sure enough, that night, he died. Wow. woke up the next day, dead. I guess he didn't wake up the next day, dead. His celly woke up the next day, and he was dead. Wow, that's crazy. But, yeah, so 10 o'clock, 930, 10 o'clock, they opened up the door, Williamson. So I'm like, fucking stoked.

I'm like, shit, I got it done. I'm out of here. I hopped down, get there, and as crazy as it is, the guy looked at him, and he's like, you're Leah's dad, right? And Leah's my stepdaughter. And I'm just like, yeah? And he's like, my wife used to train her for gymnastics. And I was like, oh, how you doing?

You know, I'm glad we could cash out. Yeah, I'm fancy meeting you here. And I was like, I'm getting out here. And he's like, no, I've got to transfer you. And I'm like, transfer me, where? And he's like, to the pod. And I'm like, I'm supposed to be getting out like in the morning. Like, I've already got bond.

He's like, doesn't matter. He's like, it just goes by the order of who is here. He's like, you're the next one to go. And I'm just like, well, son of a bitch. So they take me, they swap me out and give me to jump suit, flip-flops, the, you know, little bag, cup, three and one bodywatch. shampoo conditioner, toothbrush,

roll the toilet paper and send you in. So you go in and the one I was in it was like a big open area room with like those chairs that everything on it

around. There's no sharp points on them chairs at all and the TV and then you got a bottom floor and a top floor. Well then when you go in there

it's basically like just an open dorm there's bunks in there but it's just open from one end of the wall to the other. So a lot of people in here.

So I'm walking. I'm like all right well, I'm probably not going to find the bottom bunk, walked a one in, come back, and then I see the guy that said a sister on fire and kind of like waves at me. And I'm just like, hey, I was like, care if I get up there? He's like, no, man, go ahead.

So I hop up there. You know, still at this point, I'm just like, Jesus, I can't. I'm staring at the ceiling. I'm like, I can't believe I'm here. Like I've done nothing wrong. I've done everything from the training they give you for your CWP, by the letter of the law, by Castle Law,

like I've done everything by the letter of the law, and I'm still in here, and it was blowing my fucking mind. And, you know, I would talk a little bit. One guy I come up to you, man, I guess he was kind of like one of the top orderlies or something. He's like, do you need a job? And I was like, wait a minute. I'm not going to be here a lot enough for a job.

And that's what I was like, no, he's like, oh, you're bonding out. And I said, yeah, I'm supposed to get out here tomorrow. And he was like, all right, well, yeah, if you get out that quick, don't worry about it. Well, then somebody else, I guess they knew the guy, that knew what I was in there for. Yeah, that'll spread everywhere.

Everybody, within two days, everybody, yeah, 150 guys, every one of them knows. Yeah, well, they knew that night. And the one guy, he was like, he said, man, let me ask you something. He's like, uh, he said you didn't need no job. And I was like, yeah, he's like, you're bonding out tomorrow. He's like, what fucking lawyer you got?

He's like, I need him. And I was just like, 80s 70s. He's like, oh, okay, I understand. That just kept coming up throughout there. And I am, I am heavily tattooed. I got a lot of tattoos on my arms and stuff. And the guys were noticing that in there. And they asked me who.

my tattoo artist was and he was a local guy with like everybody in their new them and it was like oh i knew eric so it was kind of like that was like uh i guess my end they didn't mess with me you know or treat me like you know any other any type of way and so i'm not going to say it was like obviously i'd rather been in my own bed but it wasn't like a bad experience like it wasn't like you know they were in there trying to fuck with you or anything like that and i mean that was pretty much it you know spent that night there got out the next morning immediately went home took a shower and there's a funny story about that too that night i did decide to take a shower and the guy i didn't want to make it seem like i'd never been in there before and the guy's like

he's like uh you know how to work to shower right he's like with a little thing in the back and i'm like oh yeah yeah and i go in there and it's like a little you push it and the thing only lasts for like five seconds yeah but they have something to where they can jam in there to where it don't i couldn't figure out how they'd done it but i'm not about to go out there and ask them yeah so I was having to take miniature showers within five second increments to get somewhat clean

but I was just like yeah I'm not telling that I don't know how to work to decide everybody up in there assumed I think that I'd been in there before and I didn't do anything to correct them on that either

I was just like well if they're going to assume that let me get out of here so it was the push button and they had a tab that you slept you could jam it in there yeah it was like a real thin piece

of plastic that you could jam in there and it kept it from coming back because otherwise you hit it and then it slowly slides back out dude's imprison man or something the smartest cats you will ever run across. Listen, the necessity is the mother

of invention. Exactly. Those guys like if you'd been in a place where like you need to get, somebody wants some coffee five cells down and you're all locked up, man they start they'll take their thread and make a thread and take something heavy and shoot it

down there. It'll bounce off the wall and the next guy will get it and he'll slide it down. Next thing you know that you've got a string back and forth and they're pulling fucking little bags of coffee back and forth each other. It's insane. She was like, who thought that up? Like, it's, it's ridiculous. The one dude, he said he didn't like the cold air blowing on him,

so he would wet like toilet paper and throw it up to block the cold air. Yeah, I mean, it was just... Yeah, COs get pissed. They come and then they say, they get it down, they yell at you, tear your bed apart, and you'll just rebuild. It's just what we do. So, yeah. Yeah, but, I mean, that was the extent of the spirit.

You know, it wasn't bad. It wasn't, you know, anything like the, people, I guess, think the worst case scenario. it wasn't that but granted I was only in there a couple days so thankfully I didn't have to put any more experience in that than I had to but I got out and then immediately then you know the lawyers like art and you know here's what we got we're going to plan a uh preliminary hearing for you and this took place in July so a couple months after you're still working you're still going to work well no yeah I guess I should cover that I get out um because I'm only in jail like I said

I check myself in Sunday I get out Tuesday morning I go to work and I take tell them. I'm like, hey, I'm not going to need to miss work. I'm coming back, but obviously they know what's going on. And so I go out there and he was like, all right, well, come over and go to the GM's office. So when he said that, I'm like, oh, boy. So we go to the GM's office and it was like my boss in my department, the GM of that new core. And he sit down and he's like, all right, well, you know, what's going on exactly? And I told him everything. And he's like, well, you know, unfortunately, man, we're going to have to let you go. And I was just like, what the fuck? I was like, after everything I just told him, he's like,

I can't imagine the shoes you're in right now. And I'm like, well, imagine me and fired on top of it. Yeah. Like, yeah, you're not helping out in a situation. I can promise you to that. I'm like, I'm not going to need to miss work. Like, I'm out. I'm free to come to work.

And they even block me from getting unemployment. They blocked me. It said it was conduct detrimental to New Corps' offwork conduct policy. They blocked me from even getting unemployment. I couldn't even get unemployment from when I, after I got fired. Lord people that's some shit. Okay. But the sixth.

silver lining to me getting fired was that then I could access the 401K that I had had built up. Yeah, but you would think like, I mean, after they, well, anyway, let's keep going. Let's sorry. Oh, there can be a lot said on that. I mean, I was just like, I know people that have worked there that have had charges that not necessarily maybe what I had, but were serious, like serious charges that never got anything done to them. And I'm just like, why wouldn't you let me keep working? Like, obviously, if I'm found guilty, you're not going to have to worry about fire me.

I'm not going to be back for a very long time. But for whatever reason, they just wanted to go ahead and get rid of me. And that's what they did. And so, like I said, with them fire me, it did open me up to be able to go into my 401K. Because as long as you're employed there, other than it being, I think you can do a loan, but you can't withdraw, like make big withdrawals. Right. But, you know, you're going to have to pay your taxes, but after you no longer work there,

you're free to do whatever. And so the prices for the lawyer was like $50,000 to take the case and like another 10 or 15 to start all the investigations and stuff like that. And that was just off the rip. So I go ahead. I pay that off in full. I think I finished paying off my car I had at the time, you know, maybe a little bit of credit card debt.

That way I didn't have any debt. And it was just a house payment, normal bills, and my wife was still working. So we could manage it. It was going to be a while before I could find another job because I didn't know what that was going to be like either. So I'm handling the lawyer situation, but I'm not. I'm also trying to find a job, and I go to Republic Services, which is like a trash company, but so I'm a welder, so I was going to be at their facility where they would cut out panels

that had been rusted out or dent it in, put in new ones and weld them up. It was good money, close to the house, good benefits. And I told the guy in the interview, I'm like, hey, this is what happened. And he's like, when all this happened? I'm like, you know, a week ago, he's like, oh, shit. And he's like, well, I took criminal justice in college. He said, don't sound like you have anything to worry about. And I was like, well, I'm cool.

He's letting you know if I say, hey, I got to go for a court hearing, you know why. You know, or if you see something in the news, you know why. Because it was still in the news. Like, when I got home from jail, there was two news stations sitting across from my house. I guess they knew I was getting out. So they were just waiting. So it was a big story, especially in that community. It's just one of the things that just don't happen, especially in those communities.

So everybody was on it. There was countless articles on it. So when I come home, I was telling my wife, I'm like, I think I got a job. Well, when it run through corporate, in Arizona, and they run the background, it showed as a pending murder investigation. And they called me, and they rescinded the offer. Right. So I'm just like, well, fuck, there you go.

I can't, I can't go anywhere that's going to run my background. Right. And I found a sign company that was hiring at the time. Because it was in such quick succession, I just told the guy, I didn't tell him I got fired. I told him that I wanted to be able to get off a night shift and be able to be more hands-on with my son, which wasn't a lie.

I did, but I just kind of got forced into that. And so he didn't run my background. He hired me on the spot because he seemed that I'd had a long work history. I was with them for like 15 years, you know, through two different branches, like seven and a half years in Columbia, another seven and a half years up here. So he hired me immediately. And I loved that job. It was fun.

It was building signs. Like I had no idea there was much money in that. Like every business has to have some sort. sort of signage. So those guys make bank. And so it was fun. And I've done that for a little while. But after this preliminary hearing, we had nothing else.

Nothing else happened. No other events. And in the preliminary hearing, you know, you can't divulge evidence in a preliminary hearing. So the only thing that can be presented is why you charge someone. Right. That's it. And she wasn't giving any reason of why she charged me. And in the preliminary hearing, she lied.

like five different times. District attorney. No, this is the detective over my case. It was a female. She lied five times in the preliminary hearing. Like that we can document, not just, I'm saying, well, that's a lie. Like, she said that there was a point one time to where me and my wife were, you know, fighting a little bit. And they said that there was a report wrote up to where she said that he answered the door and he was holding a gun and a knife.

I'm just like, well, how does somebody answer a door holding a gun and a knife? What was in the report was that my wife came over and she said there was a gun on the table. Now, this is before everything happened. Right. But there was usually a gun somewhere around close. Like, I'm a gun enthusiast. I have a lot of guns. I've got 38s, 9 millimeters, SKS's.

I mean. But they only mentioned the knife. Yeah. So the report only mentioned the knife. Well, she said gun and a knife in lieu of I was holding them. Right. Like I answer the door holding a gun in a knife. I was like, how to fuck do you answer a door holding a gun?

gun and a knife. Then there was other reports to where the guy has, it was come out later that he was on steroids. He actually took steroids that night. He took two vows of, I don't know, whatever you call it. I'm not into steroids. Obviously, you can tell about his physique. But he took two vows of something. Well, they collected those vows from the house where my wife was staying at. Well, she said, we only collected one vial. It's in her report that she wrote that she collected two vows. So it's minuscule, but it's still alive. she said that he was really distraught after this happened that he locked himself out of the house when he come outside for the arresting officer to or for the first officer on scene that never

happened the door was open I don't know it was almost like she was just fabricating little things to make it seem worse then she said uh you know my lawyer was like well have you ever known him or any reports to him being a violent person she said yes and he was like what yeah well tell me and he said he wasn't allowed to go to the school to pick up his child because he and his wife were having arguments and he was banned from going to the school I was looking I was like she's a fucking liar like this has never happened we go and we interview the principal and the principal's like no he's like if anybody bans anyone from the school from coming and picking up someone it's me you know

nobody has that authority and he's like I don't even he's like I don't even know if I've ever met the man he said I've seen him but we've never really formally met And he said, I've never went and told him that he couldn't be here. And he said, if I'd done that, there would have to be some sort of documentation as to why and, you know, reasoning and stuff like that. So what it was. I was, she just manufactured the whole thing? Well, not quite. But what it was, there was a school resource officer that was there.

And I guess in one of these times when me and my wife were arguing back and forth, I think it was over something about how much money we were going to be doing child support. We were trying to figure out the logistics of it. This is before, obviously, the incident happened. um the resource officer overheard my wife and another lady talking the resource officer went and wrote up something my wife didn't even know because she spelled her name wrong on the report and when my i told my wife i'm like did you fucking write a report on me and she's like no we went and found out that it was her that the school resource officer wrote the report which even that didn't have anything in it saying that you know i was violent or anything like that and what it was was it said that you know

overheard her and her husband with arguing a possible situation that could come to the school. Like she was just basically doing it as something to document that this is something that could happen down the roadway. The detective took that and rolled with it and it was like he wasn't allowed to come to the school. It doesn't say that at all. Yeah, it doesn't say that at all. And then we had to print. So like I said, it's like five or six things that she lied about by herself just in that. And I mean, I don't know logistically, I don't know if that's considered a trial, but like you can get in trouble for that for lying under. or oath on a murder trial.

Yeah, but they don't. They never do. Yeah, they never do. Well, one thing that I will circle back, one quick thing, there was, like I said, I told you, I fired three shots. Two went through. One didn't. So obviously, if you got two exits, then you should find two bullets somewhere in the

house. One struck the refrigerator, like I told you. The other one, they hit the water. I found that when I got out of prison or jail. Right. We had to call them to like, hey, we found a bullet. like that obviously y'all didn't find. So that was a real bad look for her, not finding that other bullet.

And that was, I think, kind of like the first thing is, you know, how bad did you really botch this whole case? And after that, there was really no movement, man, nothing. Like, we got. So the preliminary, sorry, the preliminary hearing was held to see if the charges can hold up. And the judge could at that time say, you don't have enough. And she almost did. at the end of it she said there's really not a lot here but she said given the circumstances I bind it to trial and that's what my lawyer said he's like we were this close yeah from getting

a drop right here and that was it like I said after we left there we didn't hear I mean I kept getting reports in we hired a forensics guy to New York his name is John Palucci he come down and they basically set up like if you see on CSI like the beans so he went to where the wall back to the refrigerator, back to the corner. So it proved where I was standing, like scientifically proved that I was standing where I was standing. That was big. The angle of the bullets was coming into question

because the pathologist had wrote in her report that the angle of the bullet didn't line up to, like, how I said I was standing. And the reason for that is, is like one entry point was high, but the other one was a little bit lower. So they're like, you know, well, that doesn't make sense if y'all are in front of each other.

Well, it does if the guy's bent forward. Exactly. If he's headed coming toward me. And I'm assuming you're not a pathologist, but even you knew that. So he's tilted and coming toward you. Exactly. And the way she wrote it in the report was like, well, these stories don't line up. And another thing in the report, they said, well, he said there was a struggle in the beginning until the shooting happened, but we've seen no signs of a struggle.

So he went back and he looked at the first officer's body cam footage. And there was like a knocked over shot glass on the floor, another knocked over shot glass on the stove, and another like rocks glass, like almost like that coffee mug there without the handle, you know, if you drink whiskey out of, it was knocked over in the back corner. So obviously three knocked over glasses, you would think would be sides of a struggle. Right. And then another big reason was she said there was no back spatter on me. Now back spatter, even though it sounds like it would come out of the back, it's actually what comes back towards you when you shoot. so if I shoot you here the back spatter would be what would fly back to me and because there was none

they said that they questioned whether I was really in as close proximity as I was but the thing is he was wearing three layers of clothes he was wearing three shirts he was wearing like a t-shirt a shirt over that and then a long sleeve shirt over that so the chances of you getting back spatter over three layer of clothes is damn near non-existent right and then at the end it said he claimed to do life-saving measures but there was no sign of that either he didn't have any blood on him from that either

and that's why I made that point earlier I never seen blood right there was not at one point this whole time while I'm on 911 while I'm sitting there with him while I got the towel I never seen blood never seen the drop up you did put the towel on like you were told to do yeah and I was

that's why I was thinking I was like how do the hell do they think that towel got there I mean like when the guy comes in he's laying in the kitchen and the towels right there I'm like, there's nobody else in the house. I'm the only one that could have did it. And, you know, that was pretty much what they built their case on. And that was what our CSI guy basically debunked.

Everything that they gave, he gave a reason to debunk it. And pretty much for four years almost, nothing happened with it. And a lot of that was due to COVID. They did reach out to my lawyer and ask if they wanted to do a trial through Zoom. And he said, no, that's not how he works, which I was glad with that. he's a theatrical guy you know right he uses the courtroom as his stage yeah so you know i was fine with that and he by this time i did land another job um i stayed with the sign company for a while when covid hit um they let a lot of people go and then i found another job that i'm still at now that

i love i've actually made my way up to supervisor now um that guy knows about everything he's from texas and the the issue was with the sign places i never told them so get this we're, I'm there like three months. I said, oh, we got a big, a big job, an LED sign for a company. I was like, oh, really? Where's that? New Corps.

That's the place I used to work. Everybody there knows. I'm like, oh, shit. It's like, do I need to go on this install? And they're like, no, you don't need to go. I'm like, all right, because I mean, dude was nice, but it's just like probably the type of guy where if I told him exactly what happened,

he's like, oh, well, you know, we don't need you here. The job just got filled. And so I'm nervous. as hell and so they go out there and sure enough one of the guys they're talking to he's like oh yeah we got one of our guys at our shops that he used to work out here what's his name wait my actual first name is Wade he's like Wade oh yeah I know him you know how's everything go to he beat that case what case well you know he killed a guy he was arrested for what you're serious so then everybody knew and everybody found out now the owner never said anything to me

but I think by that time he had seen that I was a good worker that I wasn't a you know a deviant or anything like that. You know, a bad guy, always come to work. I was always cutting jokes, making people laugh. So he never said anything, but I know he knew because sometimes we would have to go on jobs where you would require to have your background run, like military bases and stuff like that. And when those jobs come up, I never got picked to go on those jobs.

So he knew. He just didn't tell me he knew. And then, like I said, when COVID hit, they let me go, which they did quite a few people and when I was at the job event now I just went and told him up front I was like look dude I damn near got an ulcer at my last job not knowing like if he was going to find out what he was going to do you know if every day I was going to walk in like why didn't you tell me this I'm like so I'm just telling you this right now up front if you want me this is what I got coming with me you know this is the baggage and he's like dude I'm from Texas he was like you didn't

do anything that I wouldn't have done I'm just like all right cool and so just doing that was like a weight off me, like a tremendous weight that he knew and I didn't have to worry about hiding and anything. And, you know, I worked there and I still work there now. And in the process of the COVID, I started my own podcast, which we talked about earlier. You know, you were a guest on my show. And the reason, there's, I think there's no other quicker way to get somebody to learning about the law if you're in the middle of shit. Yeah. Legally. And so immediately I go to, all right, wrongful conviction podcast. So I check out Central Park. Central Park 5,

Rusparia, a bunch of different cases. That leads me to true crime. Then I'm like, all right, well, this is kind of cool. I'd never listen to a podcast before then.

And then I just decided to do my own and it kind of grew legs and took off. Because I'm a real social person. Like I like to talk to people and being on house arrest, that doesn't work very well. You're stuck. But being able to do it through Zoom,

still gives me my availability to talk to people and talk to all different kinds of people and different subjects. and they come to a point where I had to go to New York. So I called my lawyer and I'm like, look, we ain't heard nothing from these guys from years. Like, I think one thing, they did have a prosecutor that was over my case. He left. So they hired a new person.

It was a woman. She only stayed for like six months. Then she left. Then they had a newer guy in there. So there was that that may have delayed it a little bit. But he just told me, he was like, look, he said, if you're good, the more time that goes by, the better it is. Yeah. Because things get lost.

people move people die you know whatever a lot of shit can happen in there and i'm just like okay well i'm i'm happy but when i got to the point to where i needed to go to new york i'm just like look you know it's i'm getting kind of tired of the shit hanging over my head because that's a heavy weight yeah to not know if you're going to have to go to trial or jail from i mean because that's essentially life you know 30 years at my that's pretty much life right and i was like you know we got to tell them either either shit or get off the pot here so they gave me permission to go to new york in July I went I needed to go back in September to do another show with a guy up there went and done that and then finally this past November the lawyer calls and he said hey what's you

doing I'm like I'm working man what you doing he's like just figured I'd call a free man and I'm just like are you serious has dropped he said yep case dismissed and what did it was after that second trip to New York, the new prosecutor or solicitor that was over there. I think the same thing, isn't it? Yeah, that's pretty much. Yeah.

The new one agreed to have a meeting. He sent him an email. He's like, hey, we've been on this almost five years. He's like, here's where we're at. And he was like, I'll get familiar with it and get back to you. And so we had a meeting to where we all went to the police station. I kind of gave my story to him there. They played a PowerPoint,

which is everything I was just explaining you about you know the knocked over glasses they had it all highlighted like they made it very easy for you to see what's going on the forensics the forensics and all that like we're going to tear you apart in court yeah and then they came to the house so I had the the prosecutor solicitor come to the house with one of his other guys a crime scene guy from the police they all come to the house and seeing it in the in the picture in person paints a very good picture of how it went down because this is not a wide kitchen by any means you're already in a compact area so the fact that that if somebody's laying a stretch across the floor, if you stand them up, like their full body length, and he's maybe, I don't know, 5, 8, 5, 9, something like that,

there's not a lot of room to be had. You know, now if you were laying up against the refrigerator, that's one thing. But he wasn't. He was still probably a good 6 inches to a foot away from it. So I think seeing that really put it in perspective form that, like you said,

if we go to court, we're going to get fucking annihilated. Right. And not long after that, they dropped it. And I want to say, they hats off to that prosecutor for even doing that because like he even told me he said this is very rare he said most prosecutors don't do this he says so the fact that he's coming out here to do this is you know something special he said but at the same time it's a risk because we're

showing him everything we have yeah so he can go and say all right well they got this we need to you know do whatever but luckily it all worked out and finally after four and it was like four years nine months it finally got dismissed at the basically the the 31st of October nice nice that's fucking honestly you're probably die about five years earlier oh yeah I'm sure probably 10 yeah yeah because I mean that's that's what I'm thinking like you know and it doesn't even stop at me my son every grade he goes up see I don't know how it is here but like we have schools in these communities yeah all the insider schools there so obviously you have Facebook right down there's right down the street yeah a block away so you got that

then you got Facebook and all these parents and everything so like every Every year, somebody goes, oh, yeah, I know you're your dad's the one that shot somebody. Yeah, yeah. Every year he has to go through that. And there was a period of time. It was like about halfway in between this. I own a Siberian husky. And my neighbor has a, not my immediate neighbor, the neighbor of my neighbor had a pit bull.

This dog was notorious for getting out and, like, biting people. Right. And I come home one day from work, and it had jumped the fence and, like, messed my pit bull up. Like, I mean, bad. You're a pit bull? No, no, no, my husky, I'm sorry. The pit bull messed my husky up. So we had to take him to a doctor.

Like, he wasn't in fear of dying, but he was must, he was bleeding from a lot of different places. I mean, it messed him up good. He couldn't walk for like two or three days. And so I was like super pissed. I was like, she came over to the house and was like trying to apologize. I'm like, I don't want to fucking talk to you. It had already bit my son a year previous.

Now, when I say bid, it was like a nip. Yeah, but still. Yeah, and I didn't say too much about it, but I did say he's not going to go back down there because it was a situation where they were playing basketball and I was like maybe the dog was just playing and it just you know bit a little too hard but I just told him I'm like hey don't go down there no more but this was different like this dog now had jumped in my yard and done this so somehow another the news got wind of it and they contacted me and there's like hey we want to come out and do a report on this dog bite and I'm just like yeah that's fine and I was like I said but

I don't want to be in the report I was like I wasn't home my daughter was she was the one that was there and the thick of it. If you want to talk to somebody, she'd be the one to talk to her. Just because I didn't want to put my face out there and what's something else. So they do that. The report gets done.

And then somebody on Facebook shares it. And then this lady comes on and she's like, well, I'm not sure how, but she said, I'm pretty sure this girl is related to the guy that shot a man in his house. Right. And got away with it.

And somebody was like, well, how would you know that? She said, I'm a public defender for Berkeley County. She said, he shot the man in his house, claimed self-defense, but she said there's a lot of evidence that doesn't support that. Then he went and hired the best attorney in Charleston to try to beat it. He said, I wish him luck, but the evidence isn't in his favor. This is on Facebook. And she's a public defender.

Fucking asshole. And I didn't say anything. And certainly, you know, even as a public defendant, like the likelihood that she's actually gone down, looked at the case. Like she may have been around the water cooler. Yeah. And the other public defender said, well, it doesn't look good for him. or some bullshit.

But the fact that she went down, looked at all the evidence and everything else. Like that's highly unlikely. Yeah. And then later on, somebody even said, well, this is your job. And, like, you know, maybe you shouldn't be on her putting shit like this on Facebook. And she was like, well, yeah, I may have said of some things that probably shouldn't have been said on such a public forum. But I've had a few cocktails. It is what it is.

And I'm just like, what the fuck? And I can't say anything. It's just burning me up inside. I can't say anything. That's what the drink. So I get to accuse someone to murder. told me, he's like, you cannot go at people on his Facebook. He's like, let them say what they're going to say.

They're going to say it. He said, if you go at them, it'll become worse. And he's like, just don't respond. So for four years, I never responded to anybody. And anytime there's like a firework or somebody thinks it's a gunshot, the neighborhood is backed up to some open land. So there is hunting that goes on. Anytime anybody hears like a gunshot, for some reason, my name always gets brought up. Right.

And a lot of people now are gone that we're. hear them so they're like oh there was a murder what happened and the the situations that people come up oh a guy caught his wife in bed with another woman and he shot the guy I'm just like that is fabricated as fuck like that's not even true people are scumbags I'm like we were living in different houses like why would I it's I mean I was just like ah it was so frustrating but you and you and so she ends up she moved back in I'm assuming you're still together everything worked out Still together, going strong. You know, like I said, the whole thing was we were getting back together anyway.

Yeah, yeah. That was the step. It just, this happened in the middle of it. So obviously, yeah, it kind of put a lot of pressure on us. And I mean, it still put a lot of pressure on us because, you know, it's not been easy for me, man. I mean, there's a depression aspect of it. There's a worry. I mean, it's basically like for four and a half years, I contributed to saying if I went to

see if I had cancer and I've been waiting to see the results for four and a half. half years right because essentially this be terminal like i wouldn't get out of prison and and it's not like they even charged me with anything less like they went straight to murder not involuntary or whatever another lawyer thought that they may probably try to plea it down because you can always go down you just can't go up yeah i i assume that they would have come to you at some point and made some kind of offer like hey manslaughter um you know something like that but they never even made an attempt no well i told him if they did i was like you tell them no fucking way go to a trial like you find me 12 people from south carolina that disagree with what i did

then i guess i'll go away and and have some free meals for a while but i just don't think you can do it not with everything laid out there and that's what people say were you nervous and i'm like well yeah i'm nervous because i'm in a situation i was like but as far as like the evidence speaking for itself no i'm not nervous like i'm in a a very unique position to where i don't need to lie about anything. Right. Like a lot of people probably have, maybe have to cover up stuff to, you know, maybe not. They might have made one, one wrong step. Yeah. But you're saying I didn't make any wrong stuff. I did everything. Yeah. That was correct. Yeah. I didn't do anything wrong. And, but still found myself in it. And that's what really opened my eyes to how much this happens.

Because there's not a doubt in my mind. It's not a racial issue. It's not a black or a white issue. It's a green issue. It's a money issue. And if I hadn't had the money to go get a good attorney. There's no doubt in my mind. You and me would not be having this conversation right now. I'd be behind bars. There's not a doubt in my mind. It all boils down to money. Actually, I mean, we were just, we were actually talking. I was like, oh, a lot of times they'll charge you with this. And then eventually, the more they'll let you worry or worry, worry. And then they'll come and they'll say, okay, let's do this. We'll let you charge to this. Even though you're not guilty of anything, the fact is a lot of people say, you know what,

I'll take the manslaughter charge. Why? Because I'm just too terrified of being found guilty of murder and going away for 30 years, I'll go ahead and go for five years. It's already been a couple of years. So I'll go for five. I'll get out in four. It's fine. I don't think I did it, but I'm so scared. And they bank on that. You're exactly 100% right. They bank on that to get their conviction rates up. And essentially, that's all public defenders are anyway. They're plea deal brokers. I mean, they try to get you plea deals. And to defend them, too, they don't have the resources to help you like a paid lawyer will. So that is. is their best way to help you is, oh, you're looking at 30 years. Well, I can get you a plea where

you do seven or ten or whatever. And that's how the prosecutors move up the ladder. I mean, that's their way to climb up the charts. Like you and I and YouTube, our way of climbing other charts is getting good content, good guests, good episodes that spread around and people watch a show theirs. They want to put people in jail for life. And that's how they move up the ladder and they don't give a shit if you're guilty. And a Senate doesn't matter. You know, it's even bait, clickbait. Yeah. You know, think about it. it like i know that this sounds better it's not really what you're about to watch yeah but it i know it'll get clicks so i know it'll get a win oh yeah it's not quite there and some people will watch

the whole thing hoping that that's that that title is in there is in there somewhere but that in the end they watch an hour and a half thing and it's not really what happened but by that time i got you so you know so so so it's the same thing like they say well they're he answered the door with a in a gun. He, you know, in his hand, or he this, or the, the bullet trajectory doesn't, doesn't line up with the story or, well, you know all that's not true, you know, but I'm going to say it because it'll keep, it'll keep the charges solid. It'll lead to maybe him getting us going to trial and maybe I'll get lucky and he'll take a plea. You know, so they do that and it, you know, the only problem is, is that they're playing with people's lives. Yeah. And, you know, and they,

I told my lawyer I was not taking a plea. And they'll justify that to them. That's what kills me about prosecutors. It's like, you're actually, like you can, you sleep like a baby at night. Like you, did I steal some money? Yeah, I stole some money. Did people get inconvenienced? Absolutely.

Did people financially get harmed? Yes, there were some people that lost $5,000, $10,000. You know, did I ruin their lives? No, their lives aren't ruined. But you get in front of the judge and you say, he ruined people's lives he that like knowing that's a lie no it just to inflame the you know the the jury or the judge and get them on their side like it's and then then somebody ends up getting 20 years for you know for something that really probably should have gotten a couple years

not in my case but i mean like for drugs or something you should have got a couple years you gave him 20 years because he pissed you off because he went to trial and didn't want to take the year or two and you sleep like a baby at night like you didn't save society you just cost society half a million dollars to incarcerate this person for 20 years when the truth is this guy was selling you know dime bags and you treated him like he was a fucking kingpin because you're pissed that he didn't take the deal and that's that happens a lot man a lot more than people realize and And once this happened to me, you know, I dove into, like I said, a lot of wrongful conviction cases and stuff like that. And since then I've been able to have a few of those guys on my show, like Russ Ferrea.

He had a show on, I think it was Hulu. It's on Peacock now, but it was called The Truth About Pam with Renee Zellweger. And basically his wife was dying of cancer. She was like stage four cancer. She was literally going to be dead within a couple of months. Right. Like it was the last stages. And the lady that was a friend of his wife's name Pam killed her, forged insurance.

document so she could get the money, but yet they penned a murder on Russ and he was in jail for three years before the truth finally come out. Whoa. Yeah. Crazy. And then I just got done an interview. Matter of fact, I come out on my show this week with Jeffrey Descovic. I don't know if you know who he is or not. He's been on some other shows, but he was arrested at 16 for the rape and murder of a classmate. Everything about his confession. Everything was coerced. And he's done 16 years in prison before the Innocence Project got involved with him and they found that he was not guilty and he got out and since then he's actually became a lawyer to help you know fight these things and he actually when I interviewed

him on my show he actually had the first guy since he became a lawyer his foundation and gotten people out but since he actually went and got his law degree this was the first guy that he got out and he was on the show so it happens a lot more than people think and you know when you break down percentages you're not like oh well you know something's bound to slip through the cracks that that's not something is supposed to happen when you're talking about people's lives that's not minor that's not minor no and you and you're I want to say the percentages are like 10 or 12% of people that incarcerated or wrongfully incarcerated probably higher than that because they just took a deal like you said because

they were scared but it's like if I told you oh only 10% of planes fail are you gonna feel the same about fucking flying like I'm not you know Even though the percentages, whatever, are very low, I was nervous as hell flying out here last night. Like, I mean, it's just, you know, anytime you have to put your trust in the hands of someone else and they have a proven track record or not being able to handle it properly,

it makes you nervous. Yeah. And that's kind of what I want to do with this now. I mean, you're actually the first show that I've been on that I've told the story to, and I want to tell it on other shows, but I want to get this word out there because I'm just not the guy

that you think this happens to. Yeah. I'm not a career criminal. I've never been in trouble. I was a blue-collar middle America citizen who, yeah, I don't hunt, but I love guns and I've had guns since I was 18 years old. South Carolina. Yeah, this was just something that happened because of short-sightedness from a detective

who's actually not even a detective any longer. She got demoted all the way down to the prestigious role of a security resource officer at elementary school. Nice. those kids will be safe. Yeah, yeah. Maybe somebody's fruit rolling. She's probably planting stuff in their in their lockers right now.

I'm sure they are. Get up against the wall, Sally. Oh, and check this now. So the National Championship game, which was a blowout, but we got a Buffalo Wild Wings built, like right at the back of our neighborhood. And I'm there with my son, and we're watching it. And I was kind of wanting TCU to win. He was wanting Georgia to win, you know, so he's giving me shit.

And I see this woman walk in, and I was like, God, this woman looks familiar. It was her? And the guy walked in, it was her. The guy walks in, I'm just like, I know this guy too. And the more I got to look and I'm like, holy shit, it's her. And she sits down at the table and there's like a whole group of kids come in that say something. They had a name on the back of all their shirts. But what it is, she's like leading those kids of trying to tell them, I guess, what it takes to be an officer or whatever.

I was like, I wanted so bad to stand up and be like, if y'all are going to follow her, you need a different fucking line of work. Yeah. That's not going to work. but yeah it was her and she seemed she knew who i was she kept looking i told my son i was like tell me if she keeps looking he was like oh yeah they said she keeps looking you didn't turn around and go no no um um i started to buy her a drink though oh yeah that would have been that would have played nice yeah um all right so the channel's doing the channel's doing all right it is man it's doing great and uh you know when like i said i was thinking of doing like a crime

base show true crime show but then i was like dude there's so many you know true crime shows and they get do it well there's a lot of research that goes in yeah yeah you know get facts and stuff like that so i twisted it just a little bit and i put that crime and entertainment right on there so when the entertainment portion kicks in i can talk to anybody so i've been able to talk to guys like, you know, actors like Tom Seismore. I had Tommy Chong on the show, which was very cool. I mean, that's probably like the one time I was just like a little star struck, you know. I was like, God, I watched you when I was a kid.

So being able to talk to him for a couple hours, I just had a guy from the Godfather on. Connor doesn't know who Tommy Chong is. Guarantee it. Half the people who, do you? I feel like I've heard the name of it. Listen, there's so many things that I'll be like, as we're talking, I'm thinking, You don't know who that is. Cheech and Chong.

They used to do these... Weed Ligwood, Florida. I don't know. Yeah, they used to do all these movies. This was back when, like, it was taboo. And they would do these movies called, like, Up and Smoke or, you know. And then they would do these movies. And they were just two kind of stoner.

I love the ones where they think they're Mexican and they throw them in the back. They get, they deport them to Mexico. They're like, I'm from Detroit. Like, what are you talking about? But they're stone. They're like, hey, man, what are you talking about? Like, hey, I'm in America. reckon man they're like no no but it's they're they're hilarious the movies are hilarious probably

funnier if you're stumped oh yeah for sure but i don't know even funnier as a kid when i was watching because like i didn't even don't know if i necessarily knew what they were doing as a kid the first time i watched it i didn't understand they were high but it was just funny because like the car's like fill with smoke and he's like hey how's my driving and he's like i think we're part man and they're like on the side of the road in front of a sign and the cop comes up he's like Where's your license? Ah, back there on the bumper, man. I mean, but having him on there was just really, really cool.

I've been able to talk to that, you know, like as the actors from the Sopranos, that's like my favorite TV show. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I've got to talk with like four or five people from Sopranos. God, he fucking killed himself, right? Like the guy who plays Tony Soprano. No, he didn't kill him. He's died, heart attack.

Oh, he just had a heart attack? Yeah. Oh, I thought he killed him. I don't know why he died. James Gandofini. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, he had a heart attack. I thought he killed himself. No, no, no, no.

He's been dead a couple of years now, but he just had a heart attack in Italy. I mean, if you watch that show in progression, you could tell he did get bigger each season. Yeah. And I think it was just one of the things that were he never kind of got it under control. And he got a little bit bigger. And yeah, he had a heart attack in Italy. I'm pretty sure it was Italy. And his son was over there with him, I believe.

But then, you know, they redone. They called it a, what was the many saints of Newark. And his son, Michael, plays a younger hymn in the movie. So it's like everybody from Sopranos, but maybe in their 20s or something like that. And, you know, that was the basis of that movie. So you get all the same characters in there, but they're obviously just different people. But I thought that was kind of cool that he played his dad. Yeah.

But, yeah, it's been going very well. I had, you know, guests like you on there. You know, a lot of Tim McBride, who I know you've interviewed. He can go forever. He'll go and go and go. And it's like, listen, Tim, like I have, I appreciate this. We were at like two hours, 45 minutes and he was just to go. And then all of a sudden he says, and at this point, I started selling marijuana.

Tim! What are you doing, bro? And that's when we started smuggling. Oh, God, the smuggling story is another four hours. like to keep people longer than an hour you know i'm like i you know because some people don't even like sitting for longer than an hour but there's some stories that just have to go and i think one of the he's made a whole tim's made a tim don't have a job yeah he got a whole career based on just you know i'll show up and i'll tell you my story and he tells it the same pretty much every time he hits the points he's got

the you know he he he's uh and he gets paid for speaking engagements for you know so uh but but but Yeah, he's, he's pretty good. He's pretty good. Who else is like that? Oh, Mike Dowd? Yes. Have you talked to Mike Dowell? I've met Mike in New York.

We went up there for Anthony Ruggiano was having something at a studio in Long Island. And I met him. And we were actually supposed to do a show the weekend that my charges got dropped. I was actually, I had the flu. I was diagnosed with the flu. I was supposed to go back up there that weekend. and me and Dow were supposed to do a show in that same studio, but I had to cancel it.

So we're going to get it. We're going to get it done at some point, but I've met it personally. He's got the second highest views on my channel. He was with, I think he was the first, like the first or second, I think it was the first interview I did. And the video itself, like Colby botched. Like there are times where like 20 minutes in and then maybe another, an hour in, then like an hour and 10 minutes in,

where where I'm doing this and it's doubt is talking and I'm not talking or doubt is talking and it's saying something else like it's like he totally like you know Colby just you know botched the whole thing still got because it was the first time we were doing it yeah and what we were doing was we had two cameras but we didn't have the switcher yet so he was there and he took it and when he stacked the videos something happened oh plus the cameras we had were like shutting off It was a fucking train wreck, bro, right? Because I had the old cameras that shut off at like 25 minutes or 22 minutes. You know, now we got these, I got these things and they don't actually this one overheat sometimes.

But for the most part, they're great. But yeah, but still, he was great. He was great and I didn't even know his whole story. Wow. Because I knew parts of the story. And then later I was like, I should have watched the whole thing because he missed. He always skips the part where he was supposed to kidnap this person. Like, he skips that whole part.

And he's like, yeah, yeah, you know, and then I went to jail. If I had known better, I'd be like, wait a second. You skipped the fucking kidnapping. Ah, we don't have to talk about that. But he's a character. It's funny, too, because I've always been like, is he coked up? Like, he's so animated. He's just wired, man.

Everybody says that. That's just how he is, bro. He's just jacked up all the time. well you can imagine when he was doing it oh god like like he said i don't know have you watched the whole documentary since then since then yes but he said he just like pulls in his corvette and the damn chief's parking spot i mean like i can see him doing that he's a mania you know it's so funny is you'll talk to like i have a cousin who's um a meth addict right and there are some people like if i drink coffee like i can't go to bed like i can go upstairs if i drink a cup of coffee i can't go

upstairs and have it and go to sleep my but because my cousins are like a meth addict and he's just his chemically he's just brink he's just wired different he'll drink two cups of coffee and it puts him to sleep and it's like and it's like what and a lot of these guys are like this is like this is dowd normal what's he like on coke he may be like drowsy like falling asleep and totally like calm like you're talking to an accountant or something instead this maniac but yeah uh i've had some great ones listen you know what you know another podcast i had was a guy named walt pavlo did you you weren't here yet with walt this was at the old house at the old place the old house i'm gonna say the studio it was really my apartment so at the old

studio and walt we had a conversation and i knew a little bit about waltz like he was a part of mcii he worked for mcii and and i thought okay so you fudge some numbers no big deal and you know That's like I had heard bits and pieces of the story, but it was so, such a boring story. I never followed. I never really watched the whole thing, right? Then he came and he told the story. And as the story progressed, I was like, you did. Like, he's literally, he's working deals with people that owe money.

Like, give me a million dollars. I'll get your credit line shut, turn back on. You can borrow this much. You can then run it up to this much money. close it down, send me the million offshore. He's got like six or seven million stacked off. He's running a whole scam on MCI while they're melting down. And I was like, listen, in the middle of that thing, I remember looking at it, I'm going,

you know, bro, I have like, this is horrible, but I have like a newfound respect for you. Like, I thought he was just like some CPA like cooking the books. Yeah. No, bro, you're running this massive. He didn't steal a little bit of money. It's millions, a million offshore. hidden accounts. It was like,

this is brilliant. Like, it was horrible, horrible. I mean, I feel bad. But, you know,

but yeah, he was, it was Tommy, you know, Tommy got locked up with suiting and Tommy Chong. He got locked up for a little while

when he had his bond company and it was when Biden and Obama was in administration. And there was something that they were trying to get him on of selling paraphernalia across state lines or something along those lines. I forgot the specifics,

but basically he coped to the charge got like six months in prison if they would leave his family alone because they basically said they wanted him he was the name and when he went in there he whatever prison it wasn't a prison it was more of a like a camp there's a camp yeah well he was in there with jordan belford yeah he said he convinced me to write my story yeah and that's what he told him he's like you know he said i believe in something called the most of and he said jordan was like what do you mean he's like man whatever it is he's like if you're the if you were high you're the most of you're the how you've ever been in your fucking life.

If you were going fast, that was the fastest you've ever drove in your life. And then I'm just like, I remember bits and pieces of the Wolf of Wall Street. And I'm like, well, he took that to the letter

because like everything in there was the most of. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was cool. They said they were, they couldn't hang around each other because they're both like convicted fellas. But he said he would stop at the street

and he would step out and they would like yell at each other from the porch. Well, um, all right. I mean, we're good.

You feel, Got anything else? I mean, I guess the biggest thing is, you know, people, when you see something on TV, if you see, because I'll even admit, I was like this, when you see something they made an arrest, I was like, well, damn, he must have did it. Yeah. You know, it was just how I was my mode of thinking at the time now? No.

Not so much. Listen, what about law and order? Like, I used to watch Law and Order. And like, there were times when McCoy, McCoy was the district attorney. So McCoy, you don't know what law and law. you've heard of it unbelievable well longest running fucking program ever so anyway like multiple series uh spinoffs everything anyway mccoy would find out in the middle of something of the investigation and he'd he'd he'd uh he'd charge this guy in the middle of it something would happen

and he would go oh my god like he's not guilty and then they would be like quick where is he well he's in he's in rikers right now call the warden we got to get him out like like he's fit like oh my god i sent the wrong man to jail we have to get this listen in real life they go shh shh don't say anything bro we got a conviction he's in jail shut the fuck up yeah like we're good like yeah that like like it's fine it's fine he had his day in court it says he's guilty yeah but you know now i don't know anything that could be in anything i don't know like suddenly it's like are you fucking serious you know the guy's innocent in the movies they're offended because They want, prosecutors want to do the right thing, right?

But in real, you know, I mean, I mean, that's in the movies. But in, you know, in real life, a lot of times they want a conviction. Like, I don't really think this guy probably murdered him. He maybe, maybe it's, you know, manslaughter. But I think I can get him for murder. Okay, well, wait a second. Like, that's, you just said, well, yeah, but if I twist it this way and do this and I know I, I think I can get that guy down the street to say this.

I think he'll say that if I push him. I think I can convince the jury. It's like, what are you doing? There's no, there's no nothing here. There's not even this. You know, or they overreach Casey Anthony. Murder. Okay, but you can't prove murder.

Why don't you leave manslaughter on the table? No, we'll pull it. And we'll force them to convictor of murder because they have to charge. or something. Well, guess what? They don't charge her. They say, I don't see murder.

Maybe manslaughter. We're not going to charge her. But there is no manslaughter. They took it off the table. So is she guilty? No. Not a murder. Boom,

she goes free. So, you know, people don't realize the games they play and sometimes it works to their advantage. And sometimes it does it. Sometimes guilty people go free. And sometimes innocent people end up getting fucking 25 or 30 years.

Yeah. I mean, in researching this, I found out it happens a lot. You know, and like I said, a lot of it, like we mentioned earlier, boils down to who you can have as a lawyer. And even sometimes a good lawyer can help him in Casey Anthony's lawyer at least. I don't know how well he was known at the time. I know he's big shit now. But he was amazing.

And then he got off. What was the football player? Hernandez. Hernandez killed himself because of the second case or whatever that may have happened. But the other one, he got him off on the second. Never got him off on that case. Like it was insane. It's like, wow, this guy.

even Casey Anthony's the fact that he got her off Yeah that was insane Yeah that was insane matter of fact His name got brought up whenever When somebody was saying When we were talking about Jose bio Jose Baez bio It might be Baez I can't remember

Jose something Spanish Yeah and I was just like oh shit I was like yeah I'll stick to local guys Yeah But I mean it Plus you had Not that it couldn't have gone bad But honestly

You had a solid Like like like And probably Which is probably a mistake on your part is you're like, I'm innocent, which may or may not have meant anything. But the fact is, is that, you know, so one, you had, hey, one, I'm innocent. And two, you're thinking, like, this should be a slam. If I do go to trial, like, it could go either way, but it's like, I know I haven't done anything.

Well, what we were thinking of or what we were going to make a motion for is what was called a dunkineering. And that's basically a plea of self-defense and castle law. now that wouldn't be the trial that would be us so at that point in time we have the burden of proof on us to prove that we acted in self-defense

if they would say okay well no we don't see self-defense you know denied or whatever then we would have to go to trial then the burden of proof gets flipped to the state to prove that I've done this or whatever and I'm just like even from the start from the first piece of the conversation like I don't reach out to that guy

he reached out to me yeah like murder is premeditated murder like at no point in that time that I have time to think or plan any of this I was at home in bed watching the UFC I mean so all of it was there they took my phone they took his phones all of it was there so they had it all they knew it I think it was my opinion at the end of the day a rookie cop rushed it or not rookie I shouldn't say rookie but newly promoted to detective rush to judgment and in doing so it cost me you know probably up by the time it was all sudden done because I had to pay for that forensics, the guy had to come down.

We had to pay, he flew down twice. It's probably going to be close to like $100,000 that I've been out of just to prove that I'm innocent and offer them to just drop the charges. We didn't even have to do the dunk in hearing. They just dropped it.

And to me, that's basically saying, my bad, we fucked up. I just wonder how many elementary children right now are having drugs planted in their lockers from this woman. The incarceration rate in the local. juvenile facilities are going to be going through the roof here skyrocketed um all right we're good

yes sir we're good man appreciate it no i i appreciate you flying down i appreciate you coming and doing it in person and and um that's what that's what i want to do and and i want to get on a few more shows and just spread the word about this because we mentioned earlier you know this this you wouldn't expect a guy like me to be involved in something like this you would think it was clear can anybody that i ever told the story to was oh well that's self-defense yeah most sane people think that but I guess some people didn't but you know it does depend a lot on the lawyer and there's insurances that protect you from certain things like that I need to get up with them I need to be their spokesperson I need to be like dude you let me go at a seminar you're trying to sell us insurance

I'll tell them how much money they can save because it happened yeah and basically it's like if you pay I think it's like we'll just say 20 bucks or whatever you get like 50,000 dollars worth of coverage and if you're found not guilty then you get you know everything's paid for it's like carry guard or USAA but it protects you in these situations so if you use your weapon and then you get charged they cover all the expenses kind of like I do for the home title lock yeah it's like a spokesperson hey if you like the video do me a favor and hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this share the video to all your friends and family also do me a favor and leave me a comment in the comment section because I kind of bops that but that's fine

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those are awesome I appreciate that I also have Patreon this is the whole pitch so I also have Patreon also in the description we're going to leave the link for CHIP's YouTube channel, Crime and Entertainment.

And also, if you like True Crime, I've got like six or seven books. The links will also be in the description box. And yeah, I appreciate it. And thank you very much. And see you.