Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Captain Smuggler on Outsmarting The Military, The Russian Mob, & Close Calls

Episode Date: September 15, 2024

Captain Smuggler on Outsmarting The Military, The Russian Mob, & Close Calls

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go-fares boats, and they're all getting caught. The way to do it is go slow on a cat. I'd say, and one captain here, another captain there. I had multiple boats. That was a mistake. I should have done it myself. I used to rent jet skis. And then I used to travel to Cuba from Key West for nefarious reasons. I wound up going to Cuba on my jet ski for the first time.

When I got there, I bought a bunch of cigars. And what I did in the engine compartment, I sat there on the dock and I wrapped them up and tape and plastic and stuffed them in. the engine compartment, boom, I'm ready to leave. When you leave, you've got to clear out. Okay. And evidently, the guys I bought the cigars from snitched

on me, or they saw me wrapping up the cigar boxes, putting them in my engine compartment. So they said, to what, the Coast Guard there said, pull over? No, you've got to clear out. So you've got to pull over on the way out. Clear out, they give you the blessings.

You know, you've got the Coast Guard, the Guard, the Guard. and the doctor. You've got to go see when you leave as well. It's the same process when you come into the U.S. as you go into Cuba. So the guy came up to me and goes, hey, you got a cigars?

And I bought two boxes from the Cuban government store. I said, yeah, I got a couple boxes. And he goes, what do you got? And I showed him. I said, here. You got a receipt? I said, yeah. there's my receipt. I'm going, and then goes,

you got anything else? Yeah, oh, you got any more? And I went, you know what? I said, yes, I do. I opened my compartment. You told you. What are you talking about? They knew. Okay. Yeah, he was setting me up. You could tell. So they took them. They confiscated him. The fact that I told them let me off. Okay.

So I came back with two boxes. So you're not a great cigar smuggler? No, I left that. I got into something else. What was the other thing? Humans. Really? Oh, yeah, that's what I went to prison for.

So how'd that work? Let me backtrack. So I had to put my thinking cap on. I went over on a jet ski. I came back. You went over there on a jet ski? On a jet ski. I was the first guy to do that on a jet ski.

Yeah, I get there five hours, and they treated me like a hero. Right. And he said, oh, my God. There was a big news reporter there. I was on Cuban television. They presented me with a bouquet full of Cuban product. And I'm going, what the hell? I can't bring this shit back.

Right. I wound up giving it to the girls. Right. And then you go to leave and they catch you with the cigars. Yeah. Yeah. They kind of overlooked. They knew. Right. So you said you went back another time.

Two more times on a jet ski. The third time, I told the jet ski back with a guy. So it wasn't a round trip. The first two were round trips. Okay. They said, Steve, don't do this again. Okay. So I started restoring catameral.

ends, 36-foot catarans called the McGregor, 36. It looks like an oversized Hobie cat, huge holes, and trampoline, netting, and a hard deck on the back. I think I had six of them. So what I did was I painted them pink, pink Cadillacs. That was the deal. Now I was getting into drug smuggling. So you weren't any good at the cigars. So you moved over drugs. And I said, I said, okay, man, I'm very comfortable offshore. And I'm going, yep, go to Jamaica, pick up a load, work it out. Living in Key West, it's like being in prison. The education you get and the contacts in the criminal world are unbelievable.

You know, you love it a lot in prison. Right. I have contacts. Had you been to prison yet? No. Okay. But being in Key West, it was just like that. Okay.

It was. A lot of guys down there was kind of hanging out, like hiding out. You know that didn't want to be found were in Key West. Yes. Okay. So I had drug smugglers, friends, you know, and they gave me some information. And we got contact here, meet this guy, blah, blah, blah. Here's the deal.

Here's the U.S., here's Jamaica, and you got Cuba. So you got to go around. Okay. What I did was I had these catamaranths, and I thought, everybody was doing go fast boats. And I'm thinking to this up, you know, it's like a red flag.

They see you. They track you. They know what you're doing. I said, the way to do it is go slow on a catamaran. Seven knots, nice and easy. And I thought, well, okay, what am I going to do if they stop me? I said, real easy.

You know these fiberglass tubes that they use the road construction for sewage, I guess. Some are six inches, some are 12 inches. They're probably 20 feet or 12 feet, 20 feet in length. Okay. Are they fiberglass or PFC? It's a PVC, yeah. Yeah, it is PVC. Well, they have caps for the ends as well. So I said, okay, this is the deal. I'm going to get a couple stuff on with. And I put them on the inside hull of the catarand above the water line and I'm going to have a quick release in case the Coast Guard stops.

On the caps, I'm going to have cement. So it'll just hit the bottom, you know, release from the boat and they'll never find any on me. As long as they don't float. No, they're saying they're having. They won't. Yeah, I had enough cement.

Yeah. I tested that. They're sitting there bobbing the roche. And what that? Well, interesting, what I did was, I put them on a rigging, a wire, and they hung down 20 feet. And I had another quick release right on the deck that you wouldn't know it. Okay.

It existed. So what I was going to do is if the Coast Guard sought me, I'd drop them. I still got them. Right. And deal with the Coast Guard. If they went ahead and did a search, did a, you know, a check on me, if they left, I'd be good.

I'd still have my load. If not, I'd just quickly jump and drop them. Right. And they'd quickly go down. So that was my idea. So the multiple catamrans, they were pink for a reason because they were obvious, obnoxious.

And in Key West, I started a water sport, a catamaran business. And I had my catamaran to go past a coast guard every day. Now, you see, if you become familiar with a pink catarman, you see it every day, it's familiar. Right. I had another catamaran up the coast in about mile marker 23 Kudjah. Kind of hidden. I had another one that I was going to send to Jamaica to load.

and what would happen is that they load another one's on the way load on the way and I just do this what was it 200 pounds if if you get caught with more than 200 pounds it steps up to a higher charge

right it was something yeah was the sentencing guidelines you're saying that'll sentence the guidelines so what I did was I said ha ha I'm only going to bring 175 but I'm going to do it multiple times. Yeah, so they know that defeats the purpose, right? They just keep added up.

How many times have you been doing it? It's just been happening. You know why I'm so good? No. Because I've made so many mistakes. I had nobody to teach me. I did this on my own. I say, oh, yeah, I'll outsmart.

I won't go slow. And they bring less than 200. And so I get caught. Yeah, see, I'm thinking, yeah, it was a big deal back then. Way on, in the interim, I'm painting these Cadamans pink. I had two already, I'm doing the third one. So I had a friend of mine come up to me and go, Steve, I've got some people I want to bring you into the U.S. Can you go over there, pick them up?

Maybe. How much would you pay? Oh, nice. I said, yeah, what do you get? How much do they pay? And he went from 6,000, 9,000 a person. That's nice. Back then, it was nice.

So, uh, I mean, you could just do the same thing. You just tie like a concrete block. Yeah. The Coast Guard pulls up. Here you go. So I started doing some of us. Who are these people? Are these like?

One was his brother. What, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And this is, so you talked to a guy that was in Cuba. No. In Key West. His brother, why is his brother not able to come into the United States? Now you're getting to the meat of this. Right. He was from Georgia. Georgia, Alabama, I mean, Georgia next to South Carolina? No, the country, Georgia. He was in the Russian organization.

Okay, okay. His brother couldn't come into the U.S. They wouldn't give him. You see, there was a war going on in Georgia against Russians. Yeah, the Russians invaded Georgia. A long time ago. Yeah. And I guess there's still some stuff going on right now. But they used to go ahead and apply for political asylum right from Georgia. U.S. cut them off and said, no more.

We're not going to do that. It was this overwhelming. And they fit all the criteria to get political asylum. So everybody was trying to leave Georgia, turn the conflict, and come to the U.S. I say that because that's going to be important. Because once you're here, will they send you back? No. What you do is once you get here, you go to an attorney, you apply for a political asylum, you've got caught blotch.

You're good for at least two years, 95% of all the Georgians that applied got. All right. I would say it's like the Cubans come over here. Like, you get you in the water, they send you back. Yeah, they don't do that now. Yeah, I know. But then, if you get here. All you got to do is touch the land.

Yeah, if you can get on the floor. You can get here, then you can say, hey, political asylum. Yeah, you got it. So I started getting into the business. But I thought to myself, well, I'm only going to do like two or three. Just a little bit. Just a couple. You know, that's just a wet my beak.

Yeah, it's about people. I'm not looking to make a lot of money. Yeah, just people helping people. I'm just trying to do the right thing. Actually, I was thinking, well, let me do this in the interim while I'm working this deal that's so i said yeah oh and there's a good filler i had two captains i said okay here's the deal we fly them into dominican republic we pick them up in lupon fly them into um the bahamas pick him up in uh nassar or uh bimini throw them on a pink boat throw them out yeah and i say drive right

pants to go scott are these all people from georgia Or these other people? It was exclusively. But other people like maybe Cubans or just other countries too? I never did a Cuban. Okay. Really? Okay.

But they're coming from Cuba? No, they're coming from California. Well, no, they're coming from Dominican Republic or Nassau. I had a group that flew into Cuba, but it didn't work well. So one time I went ahead and had this family pay me some money to pick up somebody. Okay. It's being prosecuted, persecuted. in Cuba, and they want to get them out quick.

So... Do we get the doubt who the family is? No. Okay. No. That's fine. It's a cash deal. Right.

I didn't give them a receipt. Okay. It was no contract. I might have something somewhere. Who knows? I wasn't too clever back then. You know, I was just starting my career as a criminal. So I go over in my little bugabout boat,

A little nine feet by seven foot boat, unsinkable, unflippable, and I'll show you a picture of it, I go over there, and I'm supposed to be at a particular point at a particular time, and I go ahead and I'm there. Nobody shows up. Big spotlight, comes on me, boom, eye-haul ass. In the process, in the middle of all this, my heart rate is going a mile a minute. All of a sudden, I see fireflies. I'm going slow motion.

I'm going, wow, this is beautiful. It's right above my head. I'm going, oh, look at these fireflies. It took me about a millisecond to realize the tree surrounds. Okay. Right over my head. And I went, boom. I just skedaddled.

And now, I am sure. that it was way higher over my head than real close, but it seemed like I could touch them. Right. And if they wanted me, I'm sure they just dropped down. They could have blasted me right out of the water. I knew there was a Coast Guard base,

Cuban Coast Guard base there, and I'm quite sure that they were going to send somebody out to intercept me while I was on my way back to the U.S. Instead, I went towards Mexico. I kept that going. I kept that going. And I just wanted to get into international waters. I was going to call, pop my e-verb, call the Coast Guard.

Did I arrest me? Get me out of here. Instead, I made a big wine circle, and I came back. And sure enough, 40, 50 miles offshore, I get picked up by a Coast Guard Cutter. Comes right up on me. It was called the Peanut Island, huge Coast Guard cutter. And they put the bow of the boat right on top of me. Some guy up there goes, what are you doing out there?

I looked at him. I said, boating. And he's there talking to learn how old were the captain. They said, follow me behind in my wake. So I follow him all the way back to Key West. Another coast guard boat is smaller one comes out, picks me up, breaks me in. They were in cohorts with the Cubans. They knew. Cubans will notify them. Hey, we got some guy in a small boat coming back. blah blah, blah. Thank God I didn't pick up anybody. Right. So what do you think happened to them? See, Cuba has a funny system. Everybody rats on each other. And he probably told somebody

that told somebody that he's supposed to get ready and that Friday or whatever it is, whatever day is his departure day, they had a celebration. Everybody's saying goodbye, goodbye, good luck. And, you know, word gets out. Boom, somebody turned them in. So they grab them, squeeze them. He confesses saying, yeah, I was supposed to meet this time, this place. There was a large truck right next to the location.

It was a vacant lot that had this big spotlight, huge spotlight. I'd say a 15 feet diameter, huge on this truck. So that's probably what happened. I'm quite sure. You know, somebody snitched them out, and then they squeezed them and he... Because there was just no way they weren't going to find you. There was no way that they knew. So he didn't keep his mouth shut.

And I still got paid. Right. So money up front. Isn't that what they say? Money up front? Yeah. Yeah. I don't get.

guarantee. But if anything happened. I'll be there. If you're not, I'll be here. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it was a lucrative little business. And were any of these guys from the Middle Eastern persuasion that were Georgia? Just, okay. Here's what happened. Okay. So it was the Russians. Okay. So it was the Russians. Okay. The organization. It was the Russians. That's got to be in the, that's got to be part of the clip, right? Like, it was the Russians. There was the Russians. Yeah. They had this system where actually the U.S. government had a program where if people from the eastern block countries came to the U.S. and get a work permit, usually up to six months. Well, they'd bring them over and they'd either marry an American or just overstay. Okay, that was typical. Well, it's nice here.

Yeah. I get it. Whatever. And so love is in the air. But what they did was they went ahead, It was almost like an employment agency. They would put them in positions in the strip clubs, in the hotels, in the restaurants. They supplied a lot of workforce, especially in Key West, like 90%. Every dollar. This is the Russian mom. That's true it was. Yeah, that's true it was.

Every hour that they worked, the Russians got a dollar. Now, if they paid for them to come over, let's say the flag. was $500. They charged the guy, $700. They'd put him in a house with nine others. Charge them $500, $600, $600, they'd make extra money on that as well. This is the system.

And it went from Key West up to New York. If you go ahead and Google, they did a big bust in New York. So I got into this, smuggling humans. Right. And I did several, a couple. Right. Maybe more than a couple.

But I'd always do like two or three, one, two, three, you know, something like that. I'd do a couple myself. And then the other captain. Do the other captains realize what's happening? Oh, absolutely. So you want this guy who doesn't speak English to come get on the bird. Yeah. It doesn't sound fishy at all.

No. Listen, it's Key West. Right. There's all these captains already have issues. They were, actually, there were legal captains. There were guys like Mike. They were guys that had a lot of experience, but they had different backgrounds that they couldn't become a captain. I'm curious, what is the game plan?

Like, how are you, you know. Here's the game plan. It's real simple. You bring them over because they stop giving political asylum or they stop giving visas in Georgia in their own country. If you bring them to the United States, you declare them in. Right. Homeland Security will slap you on the rest. Say, okay, listen, you're going to have to pay a fine, up to $1,000 per person.

You got two weeks. That's all you need. You get them right to the attorney. We had an attorney on, already advised what to do. Get them to the attorney, he'd do a political asylum. The guys legally here. That's the way to do it. Okay.

And the game plan for you was to do. He said he was just going to do a few of these. Yeah. And on the water, like, is there, do you have to try to hide these people or, you know? Generally speaking, no. So, like, if you got, I'll tell you an interesting story, a real side story. I was coming myself. I picked up two people from Georgia, and they were on my catamaran.

I was coming from Bimini, and I was going over to Fort, no, Miami. I was going to Miami. I get stopped by the Coast Guard. They trail me. They get on the radio. They're the United States Coast Guard. Please identify yourself. Hi, Captain Steve, God.

How many people on board? Oh, there's just three of us. Where are you guys from? I'm from New York. These guys are from Georgia. Right. And where are you going? We're going over to Miami.

Okay. Have a nice day. They took off. I went, oh, man. I got it. Got him. Me? Anyway, they were brothers, and dropped them off in Miami.

They were picked up, God knows where they are, working in a strip town. That's the program they had, by the way, another side issue is if the girls that were good-looking, that were brought in, they would go to the strip clubs. If they weren't good-looking, they'd go to housekeeping. And that's the system. Right. Like I said, it was very prevalent in Key West. So I had a little side business. I'd send one captain here, another captain there.

I had multiple boats, pink boats. Plus you're doing the... No, these were the boats that I was gearing up for that. Oh, okay. Yeah, I never really got... I got busted doing these small-time stuff. So when you first started, like, what was your motivation to, like, start doing this? seems like he really kind of had much of a criminal career before that.

No, I'm not only about that financial or what do you say, like how you're aware, like what made you want to do that? Golly. You know, that's a good question. And because I don't do things for money generally. There was, yeah, there's a financial gain. I think the notoriety, the adventure, the trying to, you know what it was? I try to outsmart the government.

That's what it was. I'm going to go ahead and create a new way of doing things. I've seen all these drug runners using these go-fares modes, and they're all getting caught. How dumb. Okay? So, what do you do? Go slow.

Hide it. I have a quick release. I mean, it was logical to me, and I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. And I'm a... It didn't work. He never got there. I forget that stupid me, but yeah. Well, it's not too late.

I'm halfway of it. Yeah, no, no, no. I sold my boats, by the way, to a guy in Belize. He's got three of him. He's running. I was just there four weeks ago for two days. Well, this gets into my charge. Right. Okay. federal charge.

Right. And what happened was, so here's the deal. We got a boat going to the Dominican Republic. I had a requirement to pick up two people from the Bahamas. I was going to do that. All of a sudden there's a tropical storm. Boom. I have to cancel that.

I sent that captain with this boat to Bim, I said, just go over to Bimini, pick up these two, boom, boom, boom, and then we'll send you on to. Dominican Republic. That was a mistake. I should have done it myself. So, he goes over, picks up two people, and he's coming back. He comes Angelfish Cut. It's in Key Lago, south of Miami. He's coming through there at night, two in the morning, and it gets pulled over by Homeland Security. Midnight express boat with four engines. Boom, they picked them up two in the morning. He was supposed to go to Gilberts, and once he got to Gilbert's

Marina, he was supposed to declare in. Okay, that was a whole deal. Instead, he gets pulled over, and the first question they asked him and said, hey, guy, where are you coming from? He goes, oh, I'm coming from Key West. How many people on board? Just me and my mate? So they searched, the boat found two people. He made it. You mean cargo? Right.

He didn't need to. All he had to do is tell him the truth. Hey, I've got two people on board. I'm going over here, and I'm going to declare him. Right. And they would have said, well, make sure he'd declare him in. We got you. The bottom line was that when he left Bimini, they tracked him.

Yeah. They knew. And then when he lied, and for the light from me, I have no clue why he lied. His response was, I was afraid. But we went over there. this. Right. You know, you were legal. Why would you be afraid? He made it into an illegal activity, which it wasn't designed to be. So what had he answered the questions correctly that it appears to be perfectly legal. You just answered it and made it illegal. That's right. That's what happened.

So now what does he do? Turns on me. He's the snitch. Right. And he goes, oh, yeah, Steve Coase is. Oh, Steve Coase is. They all know who you are. Yeah, they know who I was, who I am. And so they go ahead and they approach me. They get arrested. Okay, they want to make a deal with me. Well, how do they arrest you? How does that happen?

They call you up on the phone and ask you to stop by? Oh, no. That morning, at 6.30 in a morning, mind you, I was up packing my truck. I was going out of town for a while. Okay. Because you knew he'd been pulled out. I knew the heat was on. As I'm packing, I've got all these documents.

in this briefcase, boom, I just put them in my truck. The open window, put them in the truck, and I look up, and sure enough, they're coming. And they came, two guys, and I got arrested. When I got arrested, I asked them, I say, they mind if I go ahead and roll up my windows and lock my car?

They opened the door. They rolled up the window and locked the car from me. All the incriminating stuff was, in that car, in the briefcase. When I got busted, arrested, they took my boat. I had $75,000 in that boat. And I had brand new equipment,

brand new tools, brand new, everything. It was loaded. That was my favorite boat. They don't give it back? No, no, no, no. I asked them. I tried to tell them it's not my boat. It's somebody else's.

Right. Yeah, it didn't work. Anyway, I get arrested. They don't want me. They want me to go ahead and testify against Mr. Biggie. Okay. I go, you've got to be freaking kidding me. The guy with the Russian mob.

Yeah. You've got to be kidding me. They will kill my kids. I am not going to testify against them. Right. You're absolutely not going to get me. So what they did, they compounded, my charges. It was a minimum mandatory. Boom. I got a minimum mandatory 36 months. I sat there

in trial and just bit my tongue. And, you know, I went ahead. You went to trial or you pled you took a... I went to trial. I was too smart for myself. I'm going, wait a second. I went to law school. I could fade this out there. There's five elements. They've only got three. I said, they're going to figure out, they can't, boom, so I go to trial? What did they do? They manufactured the evidence for the two elements. And I sat there going,

I can't believe they just did that. And do you know what they said? If there was a financial transaction involved, it elevated it into a minimum mandatory. The people, the two people, it was a guy and a girl. By the way, the girl was the daughter of a former president.

of Georgia. Right. That's, well, yeah, I was going to say that the, so the, the two people that were caught on the boat, they handed over to the captain $2,000. The $2,000 was supposed to go. Remember I told you it was a legal transaction? Once we get to the dock, we call Homeland Security, they're going to get past and find you up to $1,000 per person.

That's what the $2,000 was for. However, the prosecutor turned it around and said that was my, that money was destined to me and that was my financial gain for doing this. Oh, okay, so that's probably one of the elements. That was one of the elements. Yeah, and I thought they would not do something unscrupulous like that. Were you, you're, you're, I'm not, I'm naive. Yeah.

Boom. So ain't guilty. 36 years. Oh, 36 months. Yeah, 306. And, uh, off to jail. I weren't. Yeah. Were you still married at that time? No. Okay. No. So what happens to all your, did you get out on, were you allowed out on, like, did they let you out on probation or anything? Not probation. On bail or anything? Well, when I got arrested, yeah, I was in there for a week. I went out on bail for three months. Yeah. And then I went. For the trial. Okay. You know, it took that long for the sets of trial.

I think it was in January, you know. Okay. So I was free. How long was trial a day? Two days? Yeah, like two, three days. Yeah, two and a half days, I believe it was. Yeah, boom.

I mean, the judge slammed. I went, oh, my God. Okay, three years. And I took that, I had a rule 35. Yeah. Did they let you turn yourself in? Or did they take you right then? They found you guilty.

they grab you right there in the courtroom or they let you? Yeah, right there in the courtroom. Oh, okay. Boom. Because sometimes. I got incarcerated right then and there. Yeah. Because sometimes they'll allow you to turn yourself.

I asked them. I said, listen, I got a business, but what I had done was in the three months, I knew what was coming down. And I packed everything up and put it in storage. Okay. You were prepared. The best I could. Yeah.

I thought I was going to get away with it. But just in case, you know, I got my kids. I didn't want to leave them with a big mess. How old were your kids at that time? Adults? Yeah, they were adults. Okay. They were both married, living in Key West on their own.

All right, so you have somebody that's... My son's a fireman. My daughter's works for the electric company. Okay. They have kids. I'm a grandfather. All right. So you found guilty.

You're guilty? I'm guilty. I go away. Three years. Three years. What was interesting was these guys and I had a... relationship before they busted me. These guys,

their homeland security. Okay. In fact, I was in their office the day they got, I got busted the day before. What was that relationship? Wow. I worked at a hotel, a fun test manager for a hotel. This German guy was

going to Cuba, and a couple times he went to Cuba with me. He owned the hotel. I worked for him. He was going over to Cuba, and he would never hang out with us, but he'd take off for a week or so. What he was doing was, he was a... Oh, okay. And he was going ahead and recruiting young girls and having with young girls. He'd have a scout. He would call a scout, a young girl that he paid money to recruit other young girls. And he was doing this for quite some time. Like the Epstein,

Oh, but what's the name that, what's her, I forget her name, the chick that. Giosling. Yeah, yeah. She was a recruiter, you know. This is a long time ago, and he got away with it for a long, long time. However, at the hotel in Key West, a buddy of mine that subsequently worked for me was his IT person. he made the mistake of taking pictures and he downloaded it on his computer

the IT guy had copies of them all I turned them in right all right what did you sit before beforehand before I got arrested before I was doing this criminal activity yeah so you were already ready to just cut this guy's throat because things are bad when I found out

What it was doing, I went, ah, mother. In fact, I went over to Cuba, and I contacted some of the recruiters, the scouts, recruiters. Yeah, yeah. The scouts, and they gave me a list and information. I tape recorded it, and I had them sign a piece of paper. The IT guy had moved to Cuba and was living in Cuba and had all the incriminating discurs. of the pictures, Homeland Security couldn't go over there, not without major problem with them.

They have to get visas to go in there for the reason, blah, blah, blah. So I went over and got the discets for them. So subsequently, that allowed me to get a Rule 35. I got one year dropped off. So I only did two years. Okay, so what happened? So they continue that prosecution of this guy while you were incarcerated. Right.

They come to you one day. Did they show up at the prison and say, hey, they pull you out and say, you got to talk to these guys? Well, my attorney. Your attorney. When I had it worked out. Saying, hey, listen, Steve's been working with you on this. We'll get a request of Rule 35. They said, sure, no problem.

Okay. Yeah. Well, so, but you still did two years. Yeah, I did two years. I was to the day. Where'd you go in the two years? Miami downtown. Okay.

Oh, that was bad. All the scumbags. Right. I don't know if you can. Yeah, that was not a good place. My introduction to the federal system. Okay. After that, they set me up, stopped at coal.

Right. And then Pensacola. And I did most of my time in Pensacola. At the camp. The camp. Yeah. Yeah. No fences.

Yeah. However, it's an old. military base. Interesting enough, I was in the Marine Corps as an officer, flight student, and I used to fly from the base right there. I knew the area well.

Right. How long were you there? What did you do? They give you a job? Oh, I had a job. Everybody's got a job. Most people will go cut grass and, you know. Yeah, yeah. Not me. They put me in the kitchen. And I worked my way

in to the vegetable department. I was the only veggie guy out of 820 people. They used to lock me in this one room, and I'd add a crack open, you know, a couple thousand eggs for the next morning, cut up onions, cut up peppers, salads. I was the king of the campus, why? Because on the weekends, when they had off, they had little kitchens in every one of the dorms,

and they would make pizzas and cook. you know outside the mess hall or dining room what year was this there you go what year it was a blur i got out well it was over 10 years ago yeah about 10 years ago so people wanted so you were in your 60s probably yeah late 50s late 50s yeah that's why they've kept me in the kitchen and not in the fields cutting grass right okay so they want to onions and peppers. I would sell onions and peppers a dollar a piece. And you know how that system works, right? Yeah, yeah. The packets of sardines or a mackerel, they have these sealed like, I forget what it's a hermetically seal. I forget what they call them. That

just is a vacuum sealed packets. Nothing. You buy them in the stores here. And they're like sardines or mackerel or whatever. And these. packets with each packet is worth about a buck i don't know what they were 10 years ago they were about 9.9 cents right well yeah it was a dollar oh a dollar so it's a dollar they're a dollar and then also for or were stamps two stamps as a dollar back then i don't know what they are we had dollar stamps dollar stamps yeah so that was a yeah because you can't have cash can't have money you'd trade the sealed fish yes and then somebody somebody ends up getting enough of them and then they end up buying them and then they've got them and then they say hey if you want so

you've got it you got a hundred mackerel if you want i can put $80 on your books which means i can have somebody on the street send $80 to your account so you can buy stuff from commissary you can use the telephone you can do whatever so he just made 20 percent so he's got the mackle that and then he sells that in that mackerel to the bookie So the bookie's pet, you see what I'm saying? It's like his whole system. Hey, you want somebody to wash your shoes, a Macwell? Yeah.

You want somebody to do your linen, take your bedding once a week to the laundry, stand in the line, come back, make your bed, you know, a couple dollars. Yeah, five bucks a week for a dollar a day. Somebody cleans your room, makes your bed, get your laundry. You've got guys that will organize your stuff, guys that will keep all your stuff in your locker in their locker so that your locker is not packed full of crap you have a nice very clean organized lap or all your stuff's in their locker and then you because if you have somebody on the street they can move money around for you listen these guys their guys in i guess leave

they'll be prison with you know tens of thousands of dollars in the bank yeah so i had a personal trainer everything i was good as gold i was the only one The only person that was, I was called the transporter. Right. I was the transporter. And, you know, in prison, you have different levels of status. Yeah. There were judges.

There were attorneys. So I was a transporter. Right. I'm up there. Right. In the hierarchy at the prison. Nobody mess with me. More importantly, I was a veggie guy.

Right. I made money. Right. or sardines or stamps, I had a scam going. I would take Wonder Bread bags, the plastic bags, cut up the onions, cut up the peppers, stuff that bag, and put them down in my pant lake. Right. And I'd walk out every day with a bunch of onions and peppers.

Also eggs. We used to smuggle them out. I put them in the bottom of a garbage can. put a plastic bag over and put garbage in that plastic bag and when the guy came to empty it he'd bring it out back there'd be a couple runners cartons and cartons of eggs they'd go to different dorms

any possible way to make money it's being done in prison yeah so how long so eventually they they reduce your sentence to two years two years yeah and then You what? So did you get, did you get halfway house? No halfway house. I got released. Okay. And Is it because the, is it because the reduction came through so quick, you couldn't get halfway house or did you not want halfway house? Wow. It wasn't an option. Really? Yeah. Okay. So I got probation. So that scared me, probation. Okay. I thought for sure they're going to go ahead and violate me for some thing I didn't do.

Do you hear all these horrors? Oh, you hear the horror stories. So I kept myself clean. And the last week on my probation, I was terrified. Right? So, Liz, you're the only person that has said that everybody else is like, you must be thrilled. Listen, the last month of my, I did five years. Last month, I was just like, I was waiting for something bad to happen.

I know. I thought I'm coming back to you. Everybody's like, oh, you should be so thrilled or relax. Like, I was like, yeah, I'm not off probation, you guys. I still got two more weeks. You're like, yeah, but it's over. No, it's not. Oh, it's the last couple of days, right?

It's not over till it's over, and you get that piece of paper. Yeah. So. I got that piece of paper there. You know what you know, I just got off probation a few, like a month ago. Oh, is that way? I just got the piece of paper a couple weeks ago. Feels you then.

It was, listen, my buddy off your back. My buddy, Zach and, and Jeff were walking around with a piece of paper, like, looking at it and like, aren't you? I'm like, no, I'm, I'm, I'm relieved, you know, but I'm not. You know, I'm relieved. I'm relieved because that last month is, yeah, yeah, to a degree. Like, I have a massive restitution, but yeah. Write a check. Yeah, right.

So. I saw that. Yeah, I read that. I had court costs, $300-something. That was simple. That was easy. But, you know, that was, there was something about being in prison that was relieving, was very thought-provoking for me.

It wasn't a good time, but it wasn't a bad time. It was time where I did a lot of reading. It was time when I did self-reflection, where I looked into myself and I said, How'd you get here? And it also gave me time to scheme again or to think about what the future brings. A few people have that opportunity

where you have all this free time sitting there in your cell or sitting there in the courtyard and you know you don't want to be hanging out with gangs or other people. I pretty much was the lone wolf. People would not mess with me, but they wanted my onions and peppers. So there was a certain respect that I got when I walked around.

But it gave me the ability to really evaluate what I've been doing in my life. And I enjoyed that. I enjoyed reading. I took every course I could on the Rosetta Stone. I can't tell you how many times I went through the computer course. Every program that was available, I signed up for. So I've got like 10 certificates, you know, from prison.

Okay. Interesting. I kept myself busy. that was a vital mind there was only one time that was a really a dark period for me in prison

and I came so close to running away I told you no gates and I knew Pensacola and my daughter was getting married that day was a terrible day

for me I said I'm out of yet and I could have ran through this not forest but a wooded area and there were tributaries that went out to the bay

went out to the Gulf and I said yep I'll jump in the water I'll find a sailboat that's unoccupied grab a sailboat back to Key West I mean you know

it was delusional to say the least and I'm so glad I didn't do it but I thought I could do it. I mean, I had been thinking about that for a long time. Oh, yeah, I could do this. Yeah, they won't catch me. Yeah, right.

So it's kind of funny when you're in that position and you don't want to be there or what you think you could do to get yourself out. Right. Thank God I didn't. Then they grab you and they throw you in a medium for the rest of the time. You'd be in a medium, it would really suck. And I understand, I'm fortunate to,

have had federal charges brought against me as opposed to state. Yeah. I've heard some really horrible things in state. Overcrowding, gangs. Oh, yeah, there's no air conditioning in the state of Florida. Oh, that. Yeah, that's almost like torture. No, I'm not doing that.

So it wasn't all that bad prison. But, you know, being away from your family, being, uh, also, then, your life change. You know, you can no longer pick up a phone. oh yeah there's all these little things that you just take for granted you just go away with my kids i don't see my kids i don't do this anymore i don't tell that with my buds you know i my business is i lost a lot right yeah um pay and that's how it works there are consequences for your actions that's what i learned yeah so what are you doing uh so what are you doing now planning right my future Now, what I'm doing is I'm a freelance captain. Right. And what I do is I do delivery of boats and charters.

I even work in the oil fields in Louisiana. I drive some of the bigger boats, 170-foot foot. They call them mini supply vessels. You know, and what we'll do is we'll bring out people to the oil platforms. Every week you have a shift in the employees, you know, the workforce. You bring new people in, and you bring new people in. and you bring new people out. You bring their groceries, their supplies,

things that they need for the drilling platform. And that's all you do, 24 hours a day. Two captains, two mates. So you're on 12 hours, you're off 12 hours. And it's all weather. So you work 28 days, you got 14 days off. And they feed you well, and they give you a lot of food, anything you want you can have.

Now, that's a good news. It doesn't go see anything at the end of 28 days. You got a nice paycheck. That you blow in 14 days, and you've got to go back. Stop, you know, it's a blow. So what do you mean all weather? What does that mean? Oh, you go out there and storms no matter what.

No matter what. You're out there rocking and rolling. Yeah, every time I see one of those, the oil rig platforms, it's always the choppy, you know, it's, I don't know if it's always like that. But I guess those are the videos that are popular ones where the waters, you know, it's just sitting there and it's with the waters everywhere. Those things seem like they're stable, but it's still terrifying. Summers are calmer than the winters. Winters are notorious for being rough. High winds, high waves.

That's the deal. And you've got to steady the boat. So you have to get it unloaded no matter what? Yeah, well, they have cranes. Okay. And you've got to position the boat close, but not too close to the platforms. He can't hit. Some of the boats have a thing called D.P. Dynamic positioning. Press a button. It will hold on station, regardless of the current, the wind waves. You know, just like glue, you know, 5, 10 feet away from the, well, 10, 15 feet away from the platform. It's important because it cranes offloading and loading stuff on. So, DP is a great thing. Some of the boats, a lot of the boats don't have this. So for, for,

a couple hours, you've got to manually hold that boat into position and you focus in on one or two points on that platform and your concentration is right there. You've got to maintain that. You can't even scratch your butt if you want. That's difficult. But it's part of the job. And I was a new guy, so I would always get the overnight shift, the lead shift. You know, to 12 or six to six. Brutal. Brutal. But hey, that's a job.

So I did that for a while. I just finished up a job. I did a seven-day charter up in New England. So I went to Martha's Vineyard, Nantucketuck, traveled around with three people on a catamaran, 41-foot catarant. And that was fun for me. We did some fishing and met some really nice people. Next week, or let's see, I think it's the 10th, I fly to St. Lucia.

I have maybe 10 days, 710 days with this one guy that just bought a catamaran doesn't know how to sail, doesn't know how to drive. He needs an instructor. And more importantly, the insurance company requires him to have 50 hours of instruction by somebody certified, like myself. So he's got to get that requirement for the insurance company. But the guy doesn't know how to drive a boat and just bought a catamber. It's quite common.

So this is what I do. I'll go there and teach them. I did six years as a professor at the college in Key West. I taught marine engineering, coastal navigation, seaman ship, diesel engine, gas engines, and fiberglass. So I've got the credentials. And the insurance companies are real happy with me. So that's what I'm doing. Charging a guy at arm and a leg.

And he's got the money. retired anesthesiologist who just got divorced and really kind of strange he may have his ex-wife come with him and I go dude

really I said this is better that I get strange you know what I'm talking about this ain't gonna happen so yeah that's actually I'm kind of looking forward to that I do a lot of that

anywhere from Burlington Vermont to Grenada I spent a lot of time in the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, St. John's. So your buddy contacted me, right? Yes. About your, Gaston. Gaston, about your story. Is he a booking agent? Or what is he? No, but he's got contacts with people that supposedly are in. Right. So. And I met a married couple while I was down there a couple, four weeks ago, real nice people. But I don't think they

have the credentials or the experience to put this together, to be honest with you. And I'm going, yeah, they wanted money up front from me. I'm going, wait a second. I was more

concerned with the product being protected and not being scammed for their own purpose. I think I know the couple, by the way. Did they mention Picasso? The Paco Thief of Picasso Thief or something?

Did they do documentaries? I don't think they do much. No, I'm serious. They didn't have much experience. Yeah. Because I was going to say, I met a couple one time who had gone. I'm looking at a couple both. Yeah, yeah.

You know, did a documentary. You know, he was the producer, director, their producer director, they did a documentary, and I actually went and saw the documentary, and it was horrific. and they contacted me about doing a documentary of my story. And I was like, yeah, bro, I said, honestly, I wouldn't, I'm not interested in you doing a doc on me. And they were like, well, what did you think? You saw the Picasso thief of Picasso's or the Picasso thief or something.

Picasso of thieves. And I said, yeah, bro. I said, honestly, I said it was horrific. It was horrible. And he was like, well, you know, we had a very small budget. I said, small budget or not, you still need to know where to put the camera. you put the camera in the wrong place like it was cut up it was it was badly it was just badly done like I mean that you know so well you're only as good as like you start making excuses

like it was listen bro it was it was bad it was just bad like there's no defending I said honestly I said my buddy John Boziac and I or me and Danny could have fucking thrown something better together that for for virtually nothing and and and so you know and so they didn't like that at all I was like I'm trying to be insulting but you know you're trying to say you want to do my story. I'd rather see my story not get done at all than have it done that badly. And so that didn't work out well. So when it, what I was just thinking, I was like, and they were a married couple. So there's a married couple. Well, you know, I had that business card. I never contacted them after that. I had breakfast with them. And he was like, yeah, they're going to write it, the synopsis,

basically. And I went, have they? No. And I'll tell you why. I'm thinking of myself, I could do a better job, I would have to educate them and give them all this background information and they probably couldn't touch upon the important parts as I could. I could do a better job. I've got it up in my head, you know, I'm an educated guy. Right. I can write. Yeah. Well, I mean, well, I think the problem is it's, it's the problem with people, because I get contacted by people to write their stories and it's always like okay well you know and one they don't want to pay you right well i'll give you a percentage well you know we've had that discussion like the problem is they're always like oh yeah i'll give you i always love the guys who're like well i'll give you 25 percent of it

first or 25 percent like i'm not giving you it's not 25 percent it's more like you're getting 25 percent i'm going to do it all the work you can't you've got nothing without me so you know it's like so it turns into because what i was in prison i would write someone's story i'd give 50% and people would say well you give them 50% I was in prison I think I don't have bills in prison but now I have bills and I um so you know my whole thing is they think oh I'll give you a percentage just like you're going to give me a percentage of something that then I have to hand off to somebody else in the hope that they're going to get produced like that's so really what happens is I end up being the producer also so I'm taking 25 so I'm giving you're saying

you're going to be 25% or even 50% to write your story, take 50% of something that I now have to either produce myself or find a production company. I have to go to all the meetings, pitch all that. Then when it's ready to get done, they then want you to sign additional documents that now suddenly you, people, this is what happens, people.

They find out that suddenly some production company wants to do a documentary on their life or a series. And they think they're big shots. suddenly they're like, well, I don't know if I want to go with that deal now. It's like you were banking me to help you. So most of the time, the better course of action is just to hire somebody to write a synopsis. Or they think, write a book. Writing a book is a massive undertaking.

You're talking about working 40, 50 hours a week. It's a ton of research. It's going to take several months to do. You're looking between 200 to 300 pages. Luckily, people don't expect a 300 page book anymore. Nobody wants to read a book. And then you have to take that book and try and get it turned into something, try and get a publisher to publish it. If a publisher does publish it, you're going to get $1 to $1.50 per book sale.

That's what you're going to make. They might give you a $20,000 in advance, maybe. Then you don't get any more money until enough books have been paid. That means $20,000 at least 15 to $20,000 books have been sold to pay back the publisher. Then every book after that, you get a dollar. You get paid either bi-annually or annually. You're the one who's got to generate all those sales, although it's exciting to go into Barnes and Nobles and see your book on the shelf that is fleeting and it's gone off the shelves

very quickly and it ends up getting sold on Amazon. So your best bet is just to go to Amazon and make $7 per sale and get a check every single week and be in control of it yourself and just pay out a little bit of money to have somebody do a professional cover and pay somebody to write a professional son or even better don't even do the book scrap the book and just say if you say hey look i don't have twenty five thousand dollars to to pay somebody to write a book or even you could probably go on upwork or fiber and you can find or uh you can find somebody to write the book for you and they charge maybe 15 grand it's not great it still probably needs to be edited they'll say it's

great yeah because they want their 15 grand right you get a 200 page book maybe you could tweak it'll go through it a few times or hire somebody else for a thousand dollars two thousand dollars to go through it and edit it. In the end, you end up with a product that you're going to have to put on Amazon. Okay, so you could get done for, let's say, under 20 grand. So your best bet, if your ultimate goal is, hey, I want to have my story out there and I want to try and pitch it to producers to try and get a Netflix series or a movie or something like that or a documentary.

A documentary is the lowest point of entry. so it's easier to get a doc made than it is a series or a film a feature film so mostly what the easiest course of action is get somebody to write a synopsis get that synopsis and get it out there to producers get a producer that's interested in it and keep in mind too if you're going to a producer and you say hey man I got a great story you give them a little they read the back jacket cover right synopsis a little little less than 300 words they read it they go man This sounds interesting. You go, yeah, I have a synopsis that's 9,000 words.

They could read that in an hour. Listen, I go so far as all my synopsies, I've had a narrator narrate them. You don't even have to read it. Click this link, and I have a narrator that will read it to you on your way to work, because that's how lazy people are. So they go, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Yeah, I already have photographs, all the photographs lined out, lined up. But with mine, I put them on a website.

So you can go to the website and you can see all the photos as you read the story. So like, I'm laying it all out. Every producer I've gone to when they go to the website, they're like, oh, Jesus, bro. You've done their homework. You've done a whole pitch deck. I'm like, right, because I know what lazy shits you are. So what happens is, and then you can narrate it. The point is to get them interested and then want to do a doc.

Because if they do a documentary on it, that documentary becomes a calling card to other production companies to want to come in and say, hey, let's do a series based on this person. So it's not that difficult to get Netflix or Amazon or Hulu or whoever to go and give this producer half a million to a million dollars to do a three-part documentary. It's very difficult to go in and say, hey, I need a $60 million budget to do a two-hour film. Or a series, I need a $20 million budget to do a one. a first season, 10 episodes, 20 million, just to do that. Or you can give me half a million and I can get a three-part doc done or less than half a million I get a one-hour doc done.

You see what I'm saying? For a few hundred thousand. So if you have a synopsis that you can hand out, they read it, they go, holy shit, this is a great story. The great thing about a synopsis too is it's only the highlights. So it's laid out in a what, you can read it in one hour or have it read to you in one hour and it's only the highlight so all they get is the good shit so they think oh my God if I can just get people

that he knew to tell this story and throw some B roll in there of ships and you know Miami or Key West or strip clubs and Russians and you know I could throw that B roll in there while these guys are telling a story like that's a doc

once that dock is made we can turn it into a series or something else you know the problem is there's so many horrible people in Hollywood like trust me you'd rather deal I'd rather deal with criminals than people in Hollywood they'll like they'll never tell you now they lie to your face and what they do is this it's first they have a meeting with you go oh my god this is amazing this has happened to me over and over and over again Matt what an amazing story I'm gonna put

my team together I shit you not if I hear one more fucking person say I'm gonna yeah I'm gonna talk to my team next week My team's going to get together next week and I'm going to pitch it to my team. Okay. Two weeks later, you get the email back or the phone or the text message that says, they love it. We're going to talk to Jan at Netflix. We're good friends, Jan and I.

She runs the doc department there. Okay. Two weeks left or that, maybe a month later, you send them a text. Hey, whatever happened, I didn't hear back from you. Sorry, she loves it. Very interested. She's going to talk to Bill. a week later bills on vacation he gets back at the end of whatever okay then you hear that he said he likes it

they're going to get together they're going to talk at their monthly meeting okay we're now four months in by the way three to four months in then it becomes matt unfortunately they do love it they're super interested we're going to have a meeting next week you have that meeting then they go unfortunately matt nothing is getting done over the holidays the holidays for Hollywood is from basically the end of basically the beginning of November until the end of January like there's three months

that apparently nobody works and they'll tell you this with a straight face you're telling me that nobody works for three months in Hollywood nice and then at the end of that those months you either never hear from oh again or you get another phone call

where these people said no but they're starting the process over with Discovery Channel so they start at like they started like you know Netflix Hulu Amazon on HBO, you know, these big, and then as though they, as they go through, those companies start saying, no, no, no, no, it gets down to FX, you know, Discovery Channel. They start lower, lower, lower, to the point where it's like, you know, they're trying to do a doc, an entire one-hour documentary for the people that want $30,000 to do an entire, to do a one-hour doc, which is the people from the Picasso people. And really that's just to line their pockets with $40,000 and spend two months to try and throw something together.

Because all they have to do is throw some piece of garbage together that they can put on, they'll try and put something on Roku or Amazon, because Amazon has like a Roku version. They'll say, oh, it's on Amazon. It's not on Amazon. It's not on Prime, bro. I can upload. Anybody can pretty much upload to Amazon or to Roku. who they put it up there and maybe you get paid back to 60, which probably not.

You might make $5,000 or $10,000 back at some point and the money's gone and that's it. So what's happened, but the easiest course of action is to take the synopsis, take a synopsis, take the photos, put it all together, put it on something, like put it on my website or a website, something where you can give them a link. They can go there and they can see the whole thing. Now I'll show you my website and everything. then you pitch like for instance this right here you go out and you tell the story on different platforms when you tell the story on that different platforms producers will start reaching out to you and they'll

say hey i love your story i understand you know uh have you have you have a book have you signed with anybody yet do you have you can say no but i have a pitch deck or a synopsis that i put together along with all the photographs so what you're really telling them is like in hollywood a is a pitch deck, right? It's basically the story. I have a bunch of photographs, photographs, or they call them assets, right? So I have a bunch of, I have kind of like a pitch deck or a synopsis, and I have a bunch of assets on a website I can see you the link. And I also have a narrated version of the story.

It takes about an hour. You can read it in an hour or you can, I have a narrated version in an hour. And they go, wow, you give them that, they read it, they come back, and you use. start the process in the hopes that at some point you don't get down to the roco people at some point you get to the netflix people or the or the um or the discovery people and they say hey we want to make a dock because if you can get a dock made it should be it's an easier step from a documentary to a series or a feature film because then people know who you are then it becomes oh my god this was the next cowboys or this was this and now they're ready to do a whole

series or do a hey we should take this guy's character and turn it and this could be a whole series and let's let's get a writer and then they they get a writer some writers writes a couple of episodes based on your story they pitch it they say this is great we can do this for 20 or 30 thousand dollars a season and it starts off the next thing you know it runs for six or eight seasons and you know it's great but i mean it is a horrific a horrific um process to go through. Like right now, I remember we went through my website earlier and I was showing you all the ones that had been optioned that I had optioned.

And like right now I'm working with, my personal story was optioned. I actually just signed a shopping agreement, but whatever. It's a very, the distinctions minor with a company called a foundation media partners. They've done a bunch of stuff. And I've gone out to Los Angeles and met with them. I also option another, I think, eight stories with a company called Law and Crime. There's a Law and Crime Network, Law and Crime, Production Company, Films, whatever, and they do docs. And I'm currently working to pitch another one of my story.

I'm pitching other stories. I had one story that was Rolling Stone was supposed to pick up, but basically we've kind of blown that off. So I've got other ones that I'm pitching. and they're they're these all these guys are putting stuff together right now you know but even now i don't necessarily believe i've had guys that have told me this um well you know it doesn't really mean anything until you get and keep mind these people are paid me they'll pay you for an option they're giving me checked like they're not walking away from you think oh they're not going to walk away from 10 grand or 5 grand but they will or a lot of times they'll try and tell you oh you don't

get you don't get any money for an option like that's a lie you can get they'll they pay they always try and not pay you So the point is, is that once that, right now they're making phone calls. Like they leave literally this one company. They have made tons of phone calls. I mean, this one woman at this company, Law &Card, she spit a ton of time talking to people. They've got they've got whole lists of people they've spoken with that are ready to be a part of these documentaries. Now they're putting it together a deck and they're going to go pitch it to Amazon or whoever they're going to pitch it to and turn these things into documentaries.

So the point is that I know guys that have literally told me, and still, I don't necessarily know that anything's going to get made. And they've done all this work. I still don't know. I know guys, I've had producers say, well, you know, it doesn't really count matter until the check gets cut. But I actually met a producer who said that doesn't matter either. No. And I go, what do you mean? He said, I had a documentary get greenlit.

We signed all the paperwork. I got the first check. I don't know if it was $5 million or $10 million. And this is for like a series. The company got bought out. When that check got cut, within days or a week that they had bought out, they came to him and said, we need our money back. He said, what are you talking about? I've got a green lit.

I've already signed the contract. I got the money. And they said, you'll return the money. We have to repitch that to the new owners. And they said, if you don't return it, we can, one, we'll sue you. It's like I got a standard contract. we can sue you or even if you win it you'll never you'll never we'll never buy anything from you again and you won't get a second check anyway like the doc socket or the series is not getting made

in general if you want to even have a chance return the money right and i said what'd you do he's i return the money like my god minus expenses you had a project greenlit you got a check and you had to return it so it's never ago until that thing is on until it's on amazon until it's on Prime or Netflix or Hulu or you're watching it in the theaters, I wouldn't even believe it. Can you imagine how fucking horrible these people are? And listen, they got no problem asking you to do this and do that, meet with this person. Can you have this meeting? Do you know how many Zoom calls I've been on with seeing five people? All of them telling me they love me. Yeah. Matt, you're amazing. Your story's amazing. I've never heard anything like this. I'm so

shocked somebody hasn't snatched this up. Matt, this is a this is a slag. This is a slap. slam dunk. Yeah, yeah. Good, bro, stop with the slam dunk. You know what I mean? I love it when I start telling them what's about to happen. And say, let me tell you what's about to happen. After this meeting, you're going to tell me you're going to call somebody at Netflix

because you're a personal friend with them. Then you're going to, and I'm going to, I go through the whole thing. You could look at their faces. And they go, this guy's experience. They're like, fuck. And they're like, Matt, I, I know you've been, it sounds like you've been jerked around. That's not our practice. That's not how we do.

business and then over the next six months, they do exactly what I said was going to happen. I mean, it's a horrible business. At least in prison, if you just blatantly lie to someone over and over and over again, you get to go up and just, or you get your ass beat or somebody stabs you. They call your out on it. Yeah, exactly. At least to their face, it's like, yeah, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to. Here's what I said I was going to do. And this happened, and this happened. And now I'm not going to do it. At least you know, but these guys will drag you and drag you and drag you and drag you and I was told one time by a producer a friend of mine he said the reason they don't want to they don't want to say no to you because one they're

going to run into you again over and over again they don't want to be that jerk off that said no and what if your next project is amazing they want you to pitch it to them again so you could get if you they don't want to be the guy that you know it really is killed the messenger right like they don't want to be the guy that said i'm sorry but but jim over and tom and paul at at amazon prime um said they they they don't like the the project or at hulu they they said absolutely not because now i associate you with a failure and i don't bring anything to you instead they want to say look i don't know what's going on mad i'm waiting for them i've been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and that way three months or a year and a half from now when

you have another project and you call them out or you see him at a party and you say hey man i got another project and he's like yeah yeah i want to hear about it what are you what are you doing bro i heard you guys what is it man i'm so sorry about that that the other story i don't know what's wrong with those guys i mean i tried so hard for you and i you know it's just a standard thing right so the best bet and really it's better than writing a book is to write a synopsis you know you write a synopsis you put together the asses assets, you pitch it because you're in a better position to get them to pay attention to a synopsis. And you're asking for a lower point of entry, which is a doc. A doc's an easier sell for

them. And docs will make tons of money. Docs are huge moneymakers for like Netflix. Netflix puts in $20 million on a series. It might go one or two seasons. They may lose their ass on it. That's $40 million that, that, and it brought in virtually nothing. But if they said, hey, we gave him this one guy a million dollars for this doc and it's a three part series and it's the next cowboys they're like this is oh my god what a money maker we just made what a great investment that was so and then of course if it does well now you turn around and say great now we want to turn it into a series and they go of course of course there's huge interest in this so yeah the best bet is in my opinion synopsis you know synopsis and then you push this

well first you do you do this you do one of these as many of these as possible because the producers will reach out to you by the time producers reach out to you've got you've already got the synopsis here's a synopsis they read the synopsis and they go damn this is something this is good that's the best bet and really just to write right if you just write an outline and build off of the outline it's it's easy it's not different you can read any of the ones on my on my It's like an article. It's like reading an article in Rolling Stone magazine. It's easy.

And then it's yours. That to me is the best course of action. See, here's where I'm at, is that I go back to this extraordinary. Isn't extraordinary for other people or is it just ordinary as I see it. For me, I just, it's so ordinary. I just go, huh, really? You're impressed by that? or you think that's, that's good,

I don't have that flavor, that, that feeling. Because, yeah, but because you didn't, you know, if you. I'm inside going, right, this is what I do. Right. It's like the fish in water, right? Like a fish doesn't even realize he's surrounded my water. Everybody thinks that I've got the greatest job with the world. Oh, man, you're so lucky.

You're living the dream. And I go, no, I'm working on boats. I'm out there 24 hours a day in high seas. And I say, this is my job. Oh, man, I love Jim. I said, that's because you got a sad story about your life, you know. Well, I mean, I think. So maybe that's it.

Maybe, you know, this is very appealing to a lot of people. And if it is, maybe it's something we could capitalize on. I don't, how do I say this? Money doesn't interest me as much as it should. I'm going to tell you that. I should because I'd be a lot wealthier than I am today. But I've always gone ahead. And no matter what path or what decision I make, I do two things.

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You'll answer a few questions and get a personalized recommendation. Even better, our listeners can get 50% off sitewide for a limited time. Just visit ghostbed.com slash Cox and use the code Cox at checkout. Again, that's ghostbed.com slash Cox with the code Cox at the checkout to save a whopping 50% off site wide. Number two is, yeah, generally, I wake up in a morning, I know exactly the right answer. But I always go what's going to make me feel better as opposed to what's going to make me financially more secure. And I've always taken that path. And at some point in time, I need to readjust that.

I need to, you know, save for retirement. I'm 70. I know. I'm going to shit, man. I don't have a lot of time. Anyway, that's why I'm here, and that's why I'm interested. We've got to talk to Gaston, yeah, Gaston. He's a good guy.

You say Gaston or Gaston? No, I say that. It's Gaston. Gaston. Gast, T-O-N. Okay. He's the one that's kind of pushing me and saying, Steve, this is it. This could be your big.

I'm going, when you were describing what the producers were telling. You know, I'm going, here he is, telling me, it's going to be great. Maybe it is. We'll see. Yeah, that's the whole, listen, I, you know. We don't know how many people. I wish I came up with Hachtooie. Oh, like, I'm going, you're kidding.

Oh, she's huge, right? Jellie's going, oh, me, Steve, think of so. What? Yeah, that's the, that's the whole thing is it just doesn't. You just don't, you just don't know what's going to happen. You don't know how it's going to happen. You don't know, you got to get on. if you don't podcasts if he had put no effort into it you'll not reap any reward yeah you know what's

funny i was talked to a guy the other day who was telling me about his podcast at colby knows who he is but he he was like i don't know what's the problem is it's just not it's not taken off and i'm i'm you know it's just it's not and i went well you know you're you're and colby and i had talked to him i said well you know i told you your your thumbnails are horrible the thumbnails are the little picture I said, the thumbnails are horrible. And I go, and you need to interview people. I said, and honestly, I said, I said, you don't post regularly enough. He's like, I get two or three thousand views and that's it.

I said, you don't post regularly enough. You don't interview people and your thumbnails are horrible. He's like, I know, I know. He's that I'm, I go, you're not putting enough effort into it. He's like, I know, but it's just not taken off. I said, stop it. I said, don't sit here and tell me that you know what the problem is. You're not correcting it.

and you're upset because it's not taking off. Like, if you've given it a genuine effort and it doesn't take off, I'll listen to you, and I'll listen, I'll sympathize with you and say, man, I know it's fucking, you gave it your all, and you did a great job and the thumb. I don't know what the problem is either. But you know what? I don't know anybody that's done all of those things, and it hasn't taken off. So if, you know what I'm saying?

Like, we don't know anybody. Like, we've never met anybody and said, your thumbnails are perfect. Your view time is perfect. your interviews are great you're posting regularly and your channel sucks I don't know we never followed up

with your channel sucks it's always like this is good this is good this is good and look your numbers are amazing and you know what they're saying they're like yeah I know I know right

so no guy ever comes to us and gives us channel to look at because guys will come and say yeah I don't know what the problem with my channel is Colby will look at it and say well I'll tell you right now your titles are no good

your thumbnails are this and you needed this this is good and this is good but these three things are bad. If you change those three things, I'm telling you right now, do that for the next two or three months

and your channel will start, you'll start bringing in numbers. That's what happens. See, it's always easy to pinpoint because we've already made all those mistakes. So never does somebody go and if they change all those things, does their channel continue to suck?

That just doesn't happen. So it's hard to sit there. Presistency. Exactly. You have to put the time in. If you put the time in and it falls apart, okay, I get it. But I just don't know anybody

that's putting the time in. in and it's still falling apart you know interesting yeah you've to stick with it i do know people did have put have perfect channels put them out done all the effort and it doesn't it doesn't take off and they go i don't know what's wrong well it's been a month like it's been a month bro that's it we did we did this for it we did this for six months to a year into 18 months before it took off so i'm sorry that in your 30 days of effort you didn't see a maximum return And then they'll go, well, Johnny Mitchell's channel, like, bro, Johnny Mitch, you're comparing yourself to Johnny Mitch?

You think you're Johnny or you think you're Joe, well, you know, Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan? Yeah, right. Don't even compare yourself to Joe Rogan. That's never, there's never going to be another Joe Rogan. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Hato is right on us. Maybe, maybe.

But she carries on a conversation. We don't really know. Um, she could give, like, maybe she could just give, do a whole channel just intervening girls and giving bad relationship advice. That could be, you know, whatever she's doing. Or maybe, maybe it's, maybe it's good relationship advice. Because what up from my, from what I've heard, she's got, she's only got a good. Wait, wait, she had another. It's not a mnemonic. Another. She goes. She said something. What's good for the whole might not be good for your. soul. Oh yeah. And then that's, oh, you're a shit, Nate. That's not the way there. I'm going, oh, and you just go, really? I just, listen, I thought there was a whole, that one right there. I heard it because it went, it's, guys were like, she did it again. Because she says it like that. Yeah. And people are like, this is going to go huge now. So I don't know. No, that not. But the fact that we both heard it might mean something. Negative publicity. I don't say anything that everybody knows. Well Listen to me You will

I know How do you By the way How do you have Such a thick Fucking head of hair It's ridiculously thick You're 70 years old

And you have an amazing head of hair And it's horrible It makes me feel Listen That ain't the only thing that works Stop me Unbelievable I get lucky every night

Every night I get like I go home by myself jeez when you get to be my age you've got retreads you got ladies that you know I'm getting hit on all the time

and I'm definitely afraid of these dating apps I mean I'm going you're kidding me man I mean they've gone through post menopause yeah postmenopause the hormones are out of whack

these are whackadoodles and you're just going I don't want to go ahead and get myself I'm going to get, no way, you know, they're looking for another romance and somebody else to take care of them. I said, find somebody else. It ain't me. Well, you guys get one of the ones that. I tell them, I said, you know, this relationship, and, you know, it's kind of new to me. Gee, I think we ought to go for a test drive first.

You got to fire one that married a millionaire, and he passed away, and she's worth five million. I'm thinking, I'm going to promote myself, too. when's that a gray daddy app sugar daddy? Oh, no. Yeah, but gray daddy, you know, for the older ladies, you know, the

ladies had... The cougars. No, not the cougars. Yeah, you don't want the cougars. You want the ones that are widowers, widowers, widows, widows, yeah, divorcees. Oh, large settlement. I should go hang down at the courthouse and find out what the settlements were.

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Once again, thank you very much. And I appreciate you guys watching. See ya. Hattui. All right.