Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Celebrity Barber on Escaping Prison, Vic Blends & Success After Prison

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Thomas Baca served prison time in New Mexico State Prison for armed robbery, aggravated battery, and kidnapping.Thomas's Links https://www.youtube.com/@UCEaXfIt8x2lLs_tJsrBk-TA https://www.sirmenssalon.comhttps://www.instagram.com/thomasbacabarber?igsh=MTQwNDBpcjA0a2hkbw%3D%3D&utm_source=qrGet 50% sitewide for a limited time. Just visit https://GhostBed.com/cox and use code COX at checkout.Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you extra clips and behind the scenes content?Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime 📧Sign up to my newsletter to learn about Real Estate, Credit, and Growing a Youtube Channel: https://mattcoxcourses.com/news 🏦Raising & Building Credit Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/credit 📸Growing a YouTube Channel Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/yt🏠Make money with Real Estate Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/reFollow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

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Sorry, guys, I'm just telling the truth. I had been locked up at that point for about eight months. He said, if you wanted to, you can escape from here. In the school in California, you have a bunch of different groups, and I gravitated towards one of the wrong groups, kind of gang-related, and started hanging out with them. and uh and uh and uh low and behold started ditching school uh i didn't uh i didn't sell any drugs or anything at that point in time uh i was still too young i was still you know doing the right thing

uh but still getting into mischief shoplifting from the store from target uh you know taking walkmans ditching school we ended up uh we ended up ditching school one day ended up going to some girl's house that we used to ditch to she wasn't there and uh one of my buddies stole a carton of cigarettes out of her freezer one of the other buddies stole a jewelry item out of her house and yeah which was kind of messed up and uh and so all of a sudden i'm sitting at home one night and uh and the police come to my dad mom's house to my actual home and i'm like oh my gosh the police are here like i'm wondering how old were you i was 14 years old okay and so i'm just wondering i'm like oh my god the police my dad's really strict you got to you got to think about that

and so the police get there to the house uh they knock on the door my dad gets up goes and answers the door and starts talking to him. And I don't really hear the conversation. And then my dad tells me to go ahead and go ahead and get up, you know, get your house up here. And I got up. And that's when they said, we're going to be taking you to Juvenile Hall. And, and I was like, oh, wow. So I went to Juvenile Hall and got to Juvenile Hall. The other two guys, I won't mention their name. The other two individuals that were friends of mine, they were also. When I got into the juvenile hall, I showed up to the juvenile hall. And I'm like, oh, there's those two dudes they were both there as well and so i was like oh wow we're all three in juvenile hall

well lo and behold uh they this is the first time i'd ever been in jail juvenile hall or anything so all of a sudden they put me in like these shoes that have velcro straps on him and i'm like oh my god well then the other two guys were in another holding tank and they weren't getting shoes on lo and behold little did i know their parents were picking them up and so their parents picked him up my dad elected to not pick me up he was real strict it was the point where if you went you're gone right And so he allowed me to stay. I ended up staying in juvenile hall. My dad actually went as to far as to say, we were not, you know, I ended up going to court.

And they said, well, let's go ahead and release him. He wasn't, the lady who we went into her house or whatever, she ended up liking me and everything. And she had ended up going to court and saying, you know, she wanted me to be released as well. And so they were ready to release me. But since I was 14, I had just turned. I was 14 years old. And so instead of them releasing me, my dad ended up just saying wanted me to stay in there. And so he wouldn't take me back into the house.

So like when I went to court that day, just to give you an idea, when I went to court that day and I got into the courtroom, I'm scared and everything. I'm wearing a jumpsuit. I'm just a kid. And so all of a sudden, my dad's, my dad all of a sudden says, you know, they go in and the public defender comes back to me and says, hey, we talked to your father. He was the one in court. My mom didn't even go to court.

it was the dad that was sitting in there when they pulled me into the courtroom i like looked over the area where the bench was and my dad was sitting in there and so uh they go hey uh the public defender comes back and goes hey i'm going to talk to your dad real quick he goes and talks to him comes back and he says uh hey i'm sorry to tell you but your dad doesn't want you back at the house and so i was like well okay well what does that mean i mean i don't really have like what do i do then and then he's all well we're going to have to set this for another hearing i ended up going back to another hearing i ended up going back to another hearing, they ended up saying, we can, now you're being a word of the state because your parents don't want you back. You can either go to a, uh, a placement or a group

home. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Did you give them problems prior to this? Uh, I mean, I, I took my dad's, I was a bad kid. I took my dad's golf clubs and, and I would set him up in the grass and I was knocking golf balls around. I broke a couple windows out in the neighborhood houses. Uh, I was ditching a lot. I, I was just a bad kid. So you, they were just, your dad was just like, I'm, I'm done with it. Well, my dad was also very strict in the sense of even if you were a good kid and you went to jail, none of my family had ever been to jail. So they just weren't, he just really believed in that punishment. Like, in other words, we're not, you're not coming back home. Yeah, I was going to say, I remember my dad had told me one time. He's like, if you go to jail,

he said, don't call me. You don't want me to pick you up. Yeah. Like, it'd be, you'd be better off not calling. And I was lucky I never went to jail, you know, at that point. So I was a little kid, but that kind of terrified me a little bit. So, yeah, so they just left me in there. And I went back to court while I was back in the Juvenile Hall area in something called Group 3 in Riverside Juvenile Hall. And so Group 3 was for kids 15 and under, 15 all the way down to like 12. And then 12 and under was group 4.

And so I was in Group 3. I went back. They said, hey, some of the guys that had already done time and had been through the system were like you can go to a boot camp for six months instead of doing a placement and it's called twin pines it's in idahoile they'll come an interview you can get that knocked out and then you'll be able to get out and so i was like oh that's going to be a lot better than doing a year so i when i went back to court they said hey man we want to put you in a placement or a group home that would have probably been better but me i was like i want to get out of here quick and so i told the public

defender i said what do you think about this twin pines boot camp and he's like well that's usually like a last resort or whatever that they send you to before Youth Authority. And I was like, well, you know, it's only in six months. I'd rather go to that one. And so he goes, all right, cool, well, we could send you to the Twin Pines if you really want to go there, but it's like a last resort and I said, I don't care what it is. And so he's all, okay, we'll have some, we'll, we'll see if the judge says yes. They went in, ask the judge, the judge said, no problem. So then all of a sudden, I went back to Riverside Juvenile Hall. When I sat in Riverside Juvenile Hall, all of a sudden, one day they called me for a visit and I'm like oh visit so I went out and uh and there was uh

these like people in military uniforms there just boot camp uniforms and I and I assume two of them were inmates and one of them must have been a cop and they bring to like snitch inmates to come over and sit and you know like are you going to really you're going to run away how are you going to do the program and so you know really I thought I was going to do the program so I was like oh no I'll be there and everything and it's no problem and so they said oh okay cool we'll let you know if you've been accepted so like a week later I got an acceptance letter to Twin Pines, and then I wrote a bus and got shipped out over to the boot camp.

Okay. How was it? Was it harsh? I mean, was it? I got shipped over to the boot camp and I went on a bus and I was with a bunch of gang members, me not being from a gang. I didn't even, you know what I mean? Living in Southern California, I get over to this boot camp and, uh, God, dude, they literally,

like, I was lazy back then. And they woke me up and they're like, oh, yeah, you got to run three miles in the morning. You got to do this and that. back then i wore real baggy clothes and so i looked like an idiot and so they put you in real tight clothes so that was another thing i noticed when i got there i was like oh man here throw me a pair of two x pants or whatever and they're like now you're in mediums and so i was like oh my god i didn't like the way it looked you know california in the 90s you were wearing humongous clothes you looked like a rodeo clown yeah and so uh and so now i got there and uh i did not like it i realized

i was 125 pounds i realized those guys looked like grown-ass men i started uh getting into a a lot of fights, winning none of them at that time. And, uh, and so, uh, there was a guy named, there was a guy from California that from 18th street, uh, that I had. So when I was in Riverside Juvenile Hall, I ran across the first person from L.A. And I noticed how elite they were. I noticed, uh, you know, they were a whole different demographic, a gang member. So I was kind of like, oh, wow, these guys are real hardcore compared to Marino Valley or, you know what I mean? And, and so when I got there, there was a guy from 18th Street there.

I didn't know that I was living in the Inland Empire because like I said, I wasn't from a gang, but come to find out Inland Empire hates L.A. And so it's like on site. And so that guy from L.A. was over there having a lot of trouble, but he was a hardcore dude. He was getting jumped. And so I started getting into a lot of fights

and it wasn't going good. I met some guy from CVL, Corona Vato Zlocos, some big old dude, Crown Town, ended up talking to him. He said, if you wanted to, you can escape from here and i was like oh wow and he goes yeah he goes uh you know you can take one of the staff vehicles i can show you where the keys are you can and i said no no crimes because i you know back then i was still nothing and i said no no crimes i said i just how do i

show me the route to get out of here and then he showed and wrote down like a little route where you could travel down the mountain and this and that well that dude gutteria's had a fight in the football field and got jumped he's an 18th streeter so i ended up befriending him and i said hey man what's up and he's all not nothing much and he's all and so i said hey i said hey you know we started talking and I said hey would you what do you think about just dipping from here and he goes uh yeah I'm down and I was like oh thank God both of you are having a fucking horrible time having a horrible time he was having a horrible time he was probably an elite dude I was having a horrible time I wasn't in the gang mix at the time and so uh and so we decided

I told him well let's go and I said hey I talked to this homie from corona and he says gave us the route to go well that dude said yeah I'm down and I said okay well then we'll just leave tonight and so all of a sudden like they take you to like a chow hall and they uh like everyone has to like stand up with their bunks put their hands behind their back and uh and and and then they you fall in line like like like if you're in this rural bunks all of us are standing here and then we turn at the same time and then we we march out and go to the chow hall well when they all marched out and went to the chow hall me and that dude hit under our bunks and so just stayed under our bunks real quiet and then all of a sudden everybody left and i'm just

sit laying under my bunk real quietly and like not wanting to say a word and then i can't i can hear a pin drop and so i slightly slight outside of the bunk and i say hey brother i said uh hey they're everyone's gone and then it was like oh shit do we do this or do we just go to chow and i was like no let's go and so uh we we we left and uh what happened was uh we we just started going down this trail that this guy wrote us because he had been part of a road crew so they had been known how to get out of the mountain and so uh we just started going down the mountain on a trail uh and uh all of a sudden it was like an hour and a half and then all of a sudden we see uh lights cop cars and everything they must be looking for us if anybody knows idawyle or banning

in california it's dense wilderness so i'm saying there was no way you were gonna see us catch us or do anything we we let that whole night it took us about god we walked it and jogged and ran for about six hours and then um it started getting so pitch black i had never seen pitch black like this before. It almost felt like we were in Africa. I mean, you could see the moon looked a hundred times its size. And so all of a sudden, uh, it's so dark, we, we really can't go anymore. I have a big Ben jacket on and I have my visiting pants on, you know, those ugly size medium. And so I had all that stuff on. Me and that dude literally had, it was so freezing that night, had to conjoin big Ben jackets and, and, and, and kind of huddle up and breathe on each other.

It was that messed up, dude. It was freezing. I literally at that point didn't want to escape anymore. I was like, oh, no, I want to go back. I was like, I'd rather even just go back and face it. And I don't think we're going to make it down the hill. I don't know how we're going to get down. And so all of a sudden, we spend the night there in the freezing cold. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of the night or all of the above.

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you didn't think this out very well and it was dark at night so all of a sudden we realized we're only 10 minutes away from the camp right so we were so thirsty we really trekked it back to the camp this is embarrassing and we went and there was a little water hose and we ran across and we drank as much water as we could out of the hose and then we went back and uh and then we made it down that hill and uh and as soon as we made it down that hill we were in pants in a big bend jacket uh as soon as i came up to the freeway marker they had a sign with a guy going like that and uh and it said, do not pick up hitchhikers. So I'm really good at spinning off a story and everything. And I'm good of, you know, able to, uh, able to kind of get your way. And so I, I was telling him, leave it all up to me. You know what I mean? Just because I can talk better. I look better. I don't have any tattoos at the time. And so it was like, uh, he followed me. We went right across the street. I knocked on some dude's door that I had no clue who he was. I'm actually 15 now at the time. And, uh, and, uh, some guy answered and he's all like it. And he goes, hey, uh, hey, uh, what's up and and i said hey you know what some chick just kicked us out of the car and left us and

we got in a big old argument whether we're stranded here i'm we're actually from marino valley we were headed up to the mountain and and and and he's kind of like uh this and that and and i said hey if you can give us a right i can give you a couple hundred bucks i had not a dollar to my name i was already we're going to jump him look dude i already thought in the cars like as soon as we look i already told the homie that i was with i nudge him and said hey as soon as we're uh as soon as we get towards well we'll handle that and then we'll get out of the and i weren't he and he and there's no money and but that didn't have to happen when we got to a certain point uh in marino valley we just kind of hopped out on him and he wasn't going to do anything we took off i went to my buddy

buddy's house a childhood friend or whatever ended up calling my mom and saying hey i'm out i someone told me that if you left new mexico and you may hey so what did you want to talk about well i want to tell you about wagovi what govi what about it on second thought i might not be the right person to tell you. Oh, you're not? No, just ask your doctor about Wagovi. Yeah, ask for it by name. Okay. So why did you bring me to the circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wagovi by name. Visit wagovi.combe. For savings. Exclusions may apply. going

Twizzlers Keep the fun going It till you were 18 that they would That they would That they You wouldn't build it Nothing they can do

And I heard that was true And so my obligation was to go to New Mexico And get away from California Wait until I was 18 and then it's gone And so I called my mom My mom said yeah Oh my God I love you I miss you.

I'll get you a bus ticket this and that. I don't know what to do. She's confused because they're not criminals. And so all of a sudden, she told my dad, you know what I mean, being the woman and everything, she told my father and my father called the police and police showed up to my buddy Tim's house, came and arrested me. And actually, when the police had came, I was going to run. And then at this point, I just said, I really care about this family that's here like a lot. They've done a lot for me. They're the ones answering my calls from juvenile hall and everything. So I just got arrested or whatever and they took me back to the juvenile hall so i got stuck back over there to back

to the duke the boot camp no back to juvenile hall so once you left from the boot camp now you're done with the boot camp you got to go back to riverside juvenile hall so i went back there lo and behold again here goes and i stay there about six months again and then they get me into this other program uh it's a placement this time and it's called uh the the judge says oh we'll give you one more chance usually if you escape from twin pines you're going to californ youth authority for sure and so i i did that but you also said that was like a rat last resort too it's a last resort but since i was on my first chance yeah i picked the wrong places to go to so they they they probably took that into consideration and they're like he could you know what i mean let's send him to orange county and we'll send him to

los pinos it's a it's a placement in orange county and so again i didn't know any of this was going to happen i get to orange county i'm getting a little bit tougher by this time and so i'm getting fighting back a little bit more i'm starting to have confidence in myself i get over over to this Orange County place and they start calling me River Rat. And I'm like, what? Like, what, what, what's it with that? And they're like, oh, well, that Vothos from Riverside. They're like, he's a river rat. This is Orange County. And I'm, I didn't know there was a beef between Orange County, Riverside. And so I'm stuck over here as this Riverside inmate sitting in this Orange County jail. So I fought 100,000 times. And, and, and, and, uh, even the staff all got to know

me, they'd switch me to another cottage. I'd get into a bunch of fights. And then all of a sudden, in this awesome guy, Gunny, who was running that establishment, they call me in again to get in trouble. I got into another fight. I go in there and I'm thinking, ah, it's just going to be, you know, another misconduct thing. And I'll be sticking around. It's not going to be the end of the world. I go into this, uh, to talk to the guy in the office and he goes, and he says, hey man, uh, there's a bag sitting over in the corner. And it says, Baca, comma Thomas. And it has a number on there. And I'm like, am I getting transported for some reason? And then so I said, hey, man, what's up gunny and he goes uh the riversides coming to get you and i said no dude i said come on man like

i was like why and he's all uh i i can't you it's just too many altercations they're coming to get you and so i was like oh man i knew that it was all bad from there by this time i was already engaging on the age of 17 and so i and so i'd spent that much you been in there the whole time i was 14 turning 15 i turned 15 i went to twin pine stayed there for a while escape went back stayed in the in the juvenile hall for that long uh turn turning 17 now went to the other other camp uh now now i'm 17 going to be 18 in a short period of time uh riverside comes picks me up they take me back to the county jail uh and when they take me back to the count or back to the juvenile hall when they take me back there i'm like i know that i'm in trouble for sure there's nowhere

else that they're going to be able to send me so all of a sudden i go back to the juvenile wait there forever end up going back to court go into the courtroom there's some big huge cholo i'll never forget this guy had three tails on the back of his head the guy was this that whatever get in there and he big old dude i'm just trying to kind of hunker up next to him and see what he's about and i'm like hey what what's going on with you and he goes nah he's oh i'm going to go to go to prison and i was like damn i was like and then he's all y and he's all ma homes that they're letting you uh you can sign a waiver now and you can uh they'll put you in the adult uh system as a juvenile and and uh because y a you can get stuck there to

or 21 or 25. So again, I made a very poor decision. I was like, I thought in my mind, I said, oh, I can be out in, in six months to a year. Let me just go ahead and, let me go ahead and go and go to this prison thing as a juvenile. I won't have an adult record. I was like, I'll go ahead and do that because I knew with the way I was, I was going to get into trouble in YA and I'd be stuck there until I was 21. If you ever go look up California Youth Authority, they have adults in there. You know what I mean? They could, they can hold you to your 25 even. It's under the juvenile shit. And so I made a poor decision again.

The public defender came in and I said, hey, man, he goes, hey, they're shooting for California Youth Authority. There's really no way around it. Let's just see if we can get you, you know, a real light sentence over there. You really shouldn't be in there in the first place. And, you know, you kind of built this up yourself, you know, escaping and doing everything else. You really were, you know, you would have never been there. And so all of a sudden, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, I'm sitting there and I and and and and and that Cholo tells me about his going to the adult system. And then so the

lawyer, I was so scared of why. A. I was like, because they said that place is crazy. I knew it was like you when you get there. All this, these crazy stories that I heard. And so I was like, I don't want to go there. And I ended up telling that homie, I said, hey, uh, I told the public defender. I said, hey, well, this other guy that's out here that was just out there had mentioned that, uh, that you can go to like banning correctional facility or one of those adult places and, uh, and, and you can just get like six months. Get the time. And, and, and, and there is no more extra time. Like, in other words, it won't depend on your behavior. They have to let you out. It's like New Mexico State Prison. You can do whatever you want and you're going home. When that date comes up, you're gone unless you've killed someone. Yeah, but you're 120,

you're 17 year old who's 120 pounds. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't want to, like, I would think it would still be a bad, well, it's, you got nothing but bad decisions. God, you could have imagined when I got there. This is where it gets unreal, like literally. And I am that tiny, I mean, look at me now. So, I mean, you could look at pictures from back then you're a skinny kid with big ears. And so all of a sudden, you thought you were going to hunker next to that cholo. He's, you know, because I went and got the deal and they said, oh, yeah, you can go to banning correctional facility. Well, they didn't say banning correctional facility. They said, you'll go to the adult system and you'll do six months. Most of the,

and so all of a sudden, I'm like hunkering next to that other dude. And I said, hey, I'm going with you and everything. And then so he didn't really care. He was like, you know what I mean? It was he was already. So look, we get, all of a sudden, a transport picks me up one day. they put you in a white paper suit with no underwear on you're naked like i didn't know what this was i'm a kid and i'm i'm still 17 i turned 18 that day my 18th birthday the riverside county sheriff showed up and uh and and were there with these bigger chains they weren't the tiny little juvenile hall shackles they were there big chains and they showed up they weren't nice they weren't counselors they weren't and so uh they're like uh you know they did a transport of juvenile

inmates that they took to the adult facility they took me to riverside county jail I guess made me an ID. They started sticking all of these other inmates into their gang module pods or whatever. In New Mexico, they don't have that. So in California, I guess at that time in the 90s, it was 95 when this, when this exact situation was happening. It was 95 already by then because I left in 96. And so in 95, they would take him into Riverside County Jail and these individuals

that were from a gang like Eastside Riverside, Casablanca, where 18th Street, wherever you were from you would have a module of a gang pod and so you're already sheltered by your homies and everything else for me being from nowhere they threw you in any pod dude i ended up in going into some room i got into a fight with some black dude uh and then all of a sudden some chicanos came to like the rescue and they were like hey you're coming in this room and you're not you know this and that so i went in in the room with them and uh all of a sudden uh over the intercom they're like thomas baca pack your stuff i'd only been there like three days and i'm like oh i'm going home they they finally realized i don't belong here at all i was like i'm going home dude i was like later guys

i start packing up all my shit i'm almost throwing fingers on the way out and then all of a sudden i get into this transport and they're saying uh you guys are going to banning correctional facility and i was like dude or what i it was unreal but you know then i get to banning correctional facility and uh yeah it was it was all bad from there dude it was it was the worst place that i had ever seen i wish i was in california youth authority when i had got there to see a 45-year-old man naked in the shower shooting H blew my mind. And that part was where I was like, oh, this is atrocious. It was like, and then when I got there, honestly, like this is where I really picked up a bad

attitude and everything. And it kind of on my roller coaster ride to success, uh, I had went in there and, uh, there was some dude from Coronavato's loco, some big old dude ended up being a nobody, a piece of shit as far as I'm concerned. Now that I look at it now, I was on a bottom bunk that they put me on. he wanted the bottom bunk he came over tried to assault me or whatever uh i i i fought back but not enough there was some big suenuel in the pod that ended up being you know made he ended up you know being from that black hand and uh he ended up coming over to me and saying hey uh did you just have

what went what went on with that dude and so you know i told him nothing because i was taught in juvenile hall there you you say nothing about nothing anything could happen the answer is nothing happened And so I kept telling him nothing. And he goes, hey, you need to tell me what happened. And I said, now we got into an altercation then. And so all of a sudden, he took that dude in the shower and beat the shit out of that dude. And then he came back and told me, hey, go in the shower and go ahead and throw down.

And so that was my first introduction to learning that I had to get into a fist fight and it was going to be on call. And that guy had so much stigma and power to him that I just went ahead and did that. And I went in there, fought him, got beat up, came back out. I was like and felt good got my bottom bunks sat there that night I had no clue what table to go to you know in retrospect I guess you were gosto I mean really to think about it you know as I am now it's like you were really on that low level well that dude comes over what would you say you just weren't really anything you know what I mean a terminology of gospel is just someone who ain't really shit you know what I mean and I am I am you lead but I'm saying at that time frame it's you were you were 17 you were eight just turned 18 you're barely being indoctrinated that dude comes back over to my bunk and tells me to bring my tray over to the table. I start eating over there. I start becoming really great friends of them. We worked out three times a day. He was in charge of, you know, the whole car. We started working out. And then my kickout date came. And I really

honestly, oddly enough, didn't want to go home. You got to imagine I was 18. I was a kid. I really felt like this guy was, he was in his mid-30s. So it's like he was a father figure almost like a, you know, a mentor. And so I was like, I didn't really want to roll. I was like, where's he going? I'll just, you know what I mean? I'd rather roll with you. But, you know, your kickout date came and my dad flew from New Mexico, got on a plane, went to the airport, picked me up, brought me out to New Mexico.

And that was how I ended up in New Mexico. That was the juvenile sentence that ended. And then I get to New Mexico finally. So when I arrived in New Mexico and I had got to New Mexico for the first time other than just going there for family reunions, Uh, me and my dad had a, uh, a falling out. I, I, I, I just became a little bit older. I wasn't feeling, uh, you know, the slapping or hitting or whatever. And I think he tried to yell at me. And, you know, we never got physical, but, uh, you know, I ended up leaving the house. And so just,

and it was weird for me, because when I left the house in Albuquerque, New Mexico, I, I didn't really have anywhere to go. And I hadn't had any friends at that point in time. I mustered up a little job at a place called Keller's Farm Store and started working there, ended up getting into a place, uh, and then, and then really started going out and started meeting some people, uh, and then started slightly getting into grass. And then once I got into that, uh, I ended up going to a bowling alley. This was the first time that I got arrested in New Mexico. I ended up going to a bowling alley, you can bowl. I had grass on me. It was highly illegal at that time. and, and so, I don't remember how it happened, but I remember there was a cop trying to flag me down or

whatever. I ran from him, of course, ran across the street, he caught me, ended up having grass on me. And they took me in, he took me into the county jail the first time. And this was in 1998, two years after I had moved to New Mexico. Okay. I mean, did you bond out or? I went into the county jail. And, and again, I really didn't have much money then. I really wasn't, you know, I didn't bond out. I stayed. They did credit time served and then they kicked me out. Remember, I had no support from the parents. So I didn't even have someone to sign for the bond at the time. And so they had let me out. When I was in that county jail, you know, I met a connect. Right. And so, and when I got out, I utilized that connect to its fullest potential.

I just say it's funny when you go to jail I feel like I feel like when I went to prison I'm like all the problems that you can't figure out while you're there well there's here's your whole group of guys that'll think that have the answers to them it's like such a stupid place to throw somebody so what was so when you got out you hooked up with the connect or did he just give you a number? No when I had went to jail uh since I I had started, you know, when I went to jail, they liked the way I was in jail.

They liked my attitude in jail. So the New Mexico guys, they're real solid. And, uh, and so they gravitated towards me. And, uh, and I met a couple of good dudes, one of them being a great connect. And, uh, when I got out, I hit him up and, and, you know, and started using them. And what was this for? Was this for grass? Yeah, this was for grass. Okay. Large amounts of grass. This was for anything that I wanted to get. But since I had met a few people on the street already. I met some dealers. And so what I did was I turned those dealers over. And so since I had a connect that I met in there, I can start getting you pounds. Right. And so that's what I ended up doing. What kind of money are you making? I mean, look, not a whole lot. I would

say, just say you get a 10 pack, you know, a 10 pack and you make 15,000 off the 10 pack. So maybe 15,000 bucks. You know what I mean? Like a lot to me. That's like, that's what, like a month? that's that's about yeah maybe in a month that seems like a lot to me yeah for for what are you now 20 21 yeah 21 okay for a 21 year old kid 15 grand a month i mean that's that's you weren't making it consistently but you know you were dropping dropping off loads here and there even if it was a hundred thousand a year yeah that's a lot of money for a kid you know because it's not like you're buying you know a mercedes or something you're probably you're buying a vehicle for four grand or 10 grand or something i bought a brand new musting back then okay well see that's you know what i'm saying

like i mean that's you don't have car payments like you know kids don't live you know you probably just a regular apartment or something like 100 grand a year is that's a lot of money yeah to me but it is in florida yeah it's a hundred thousand dollars a year in florida today's a lot of money you know agree yeah and how long it how long it was this this is 20 years ago right this was this was in in in in 98 99 2000 2001 that whole era 25 years ago yeah yeah and so yeah that was probably probably decent money you look you got imagine so like a pound of grass would be back then somewhere around as high as 2,800 you were getting it for a thousand I mean you were getting it for a thousand bucks I mean so you

know you were getting it for 1500 1600 1800 depending on the quality of you know the grass so how long does it does this go on or does it just are does it escalate I mean, this went on for quite some time. And this went on for quite some time. Then I made a bad move. I got greedy. I robbed the drug dealer for, you know, about 30 of them. Robbed them like with a gun or you just didn't pay him?

We robbed him with a gun. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so how this happened was it was just we just did it. We ended up kicking his door in, went in there with some masks, took everything and ended up with all the stuff. Did he know it was you? He had to know it was you. I think he knew it was us, but there wasn't anything that, you know what I mean? It wasn't a fact. Not to mention, I mean, we were running the streets pretty hardcore back then. It wasn't like who's going to do anything

about it. It's like, what are you going to do? You're going to come to the house or you know what I mean? We'll take care of it. Right. So what, how does, do you get caught? Like, are you robbed the, you robbed the guy. Is that, that's your connect? And so I lost to connect. I made a very bad move. I'll be honest, one of my buddies picked up that connect and utilized him for a very long time, made millions. I was dumb. And so you robbed him. So then after that point, you were on that last bag of, you know, you're on your last, you know, just 15, 20 pounds. And so, you know, getting rid of all that, doing this and that. Long story short, I end up getting robbed by some idiot. And this is where I pick up my case. I get robbed by some dude. He ends up robbing me for

a bunch of stuff, a bunch of cash, robbed me for my safe. It was like two ounces of like $10,000 and a few pounds of grass. And he took that. I ended up catching this dude at a party. Did you know who it was when he robbed you? Or did you figure it out later? So when they robbed me, they didn't do it to me. Like me and some other homie lived in an apartment. So they came into our apartment and robbed us when we weren't there. So like when we came home, the safe was gone. Okay. And so like our house is broken into. And so I was like, oh yeah, someone got us. well little did we know someone ended up telling us who that individual was so we knew who had who did it and so by the by just getting lucky all of a sudden we're at a big party this dude shows up to the

party and so and and again i don't really know what he looks like i've heard his name throwing around you know what i mean i and so all of a sudden uh you know one of the guys at the party that i'm buddies with it said hey this this homie's here so you know i had a pistol on me that's where i picked up the aggravated battery arm robbery and kidnapping proceeded to take care of it uh destroyed him seventy thousand dollars with the facial damage and yeah and and that's kind of how i got caught because did he see what i'm sorry did he see this coming did you did you just walk up and smash him or did you give him an opportunity to pay give you your stuff back or just this was this was a big apartment and there was about uh there was probably about god 40 people in that big apartment so

it was really packed and so uh he was sitting on the couch, you know, with some drugs on him and everything. And, uh, you know, everyone was doing things back then. And so, uh, he was sitting there. And, uh, yeah, once I found out, I, I, I left from my group in area and I walked right over there and, uh, and, and, uh, and just took care of them, you know, right then and there just started to proceed to pistol weapon, unfortunately. And, uh, and that ended up escalating outside, uh, you know, broke him off and, uh, and, and, and, and that was, how does the kidnapping charge? Yeah. And, and, and, and, you moved him or something?

So if you move anyone, anyone's able to look this up, if you move anyone three feet against their will during an assault or the commission of any kind of assault or crime, it's a kidnapping. So like false imprisonment would be me not allowing you to leave the room

without me putting my hands on you. The moment I put my hands on you, that's a kidnapping. And if you move more than three feet. So I mean, like the hundred street fights I'd been in were all kidnappings. So I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I picked up 100 kidnappings.

Right. it was really innocuous charge to be honest with you it sounds serious well i mean but but read us it is it's 18 to 24 with no less than 12 but but imagine how easy it is to pick up that case if you and me got into a physical altercation i promise you're moving three feet yeah i promise i'm moving three feet so i'm saying one of us is going to pick up a kidnapping and an aggravated battery okay kidnapping isn't tying him up and putting him in a car i mean i guess it could be that you're saying that's what I like when I first picked up the charge and I and I had went to the county jail and I saw so I first they hit me with aggravated battery for assault with the deadly weapons and then tend to commit a violent felony this is all public information uh armed robbery firearm enhancement for assault with the deadly weapons they had had false imprisonment all kinds of stuff on there they ended up indicing me on a kidnapping charge and so I was like whoa this is a trip and so when I went there I was like there's no way I don't what is the kidnapping when I went to that law library and looked up the state uh statue on kidnapping it's exactly what i did all right so i was

like oh my god you're in some deep hot water this is the the arm robbery only inhaled uh nine years plus the one arm one year firearm enhancement was 10 years and then uh and then the uh kidnapping was 18 to 2 it ended up clean down to conspiracy to commit kidnapping victim not freed in a safe place in parentheses whatever that means and uh and that was uh when it was the regular kidnapping it was 18 to 24 would no less than 12 when it when it knocked down to the conspiracy to commit kidnapping victim not freed in a safe place and ended up going down to a nine year charge and uh so nine nine for the armed robbery one year for the firearm enhancement which is 10 years nine years for the kidnapping when you got sentenced finally and then three years for the aggravated assault

aggravated battery with great bodily harm or whatever is that 22 years yeah and then they consolidated all of that into new mexico does this look them up they get they they let everybody out and uh so new mexico ended up uh saying okay well we'll we'll we'll give you a plea bargain my first plea bargain was for like 20 years my second plea bargain was like 15 years and then uh the third plea bargain uh the third plea bargain they ended up uh the third plea bargain i almost missed out on because uh i ended up getting into a riot there was a big riot in our pods they moved us to sag i didn't sign my uh plea bargain so they actually sent me to trial so i was like oh my god

you're guilty. And so they sent, and now you're going to get the full time. So they sent me to trial. Well, at that first initial trial setting hearing, they offered one last plea. And it was a one to 10 with a five year cap. So instantly I signed it. I was going to sign the 15. But then all of a sudden when they did that, I was like, oh, I'm signing that quick. And so I signed for it. And and I got 10 years. Five years in prison, five on probation and two on parole. how long you've been locked up at that point i had been locked up at that point for about it took about eight months to get sentenced or whatever in the county okay um so and then they send you to prison how long do you have to wait a month or two before you get sent to a

what was this is all state so you get sent to like a uh you get said don't you i don't know how all states are but don't you go to like a receiving station where they categorize you and then they shoot you off absolutely okay yeah so i spent eight months in the county he got sentenced to took took the time i was in uh echo six a high felony pot i love that pod and uh and then i do i love that pot i swear to god shout out to echo six and i said i wouldn't shout out uh so the other thing is uh so yeah i ended up going to prison i went to the reception center which was in los lunas i have the gift of gab so i ended up talking them uh into putting me in a level two in los lunas uh got to that level two in lost lunis uh and once i got to that level

2 in Los Lunas, I started picking up the clippers. And I noticed they had a barber gig over there. I ended up getting into that barber gig. I ended up cutting hair over at the level two. Was that mean a barber you like a training program or like where you actually get a license or no, when I showed the state prison is really impoverished. When I showed up to the state prison and got to RDC, they did all the classification. Then they sent me over to Los Lunas. And when I got there, they see you have to work. It's a level two is a working camp supposedly so like if you don't want to work they'll shoot you to a three and so uh uh i wasn't going to work i refused to go in the kitchen when i first got there and then they said well we have

what do you do and i said barber and easel well we have a barber position if you want to go in the barber shop so i ended up going into the barber shop cutting hair i was still a fool i was bringing in all kinds of stuff we were parting in there uh i brewed a bunch of hooch one night we got caught with it they kicked me out sent me to to the whole me and my roommate my roommate ended up going back to that level two camp, they shot me to a separate camp to separate us or whatever. I went into Santa Fe, did the same thing, cut hair. But all of a sudden, the staff wanted me to cut their hair. So I started becoming a staff barber. Some idiot took issue with that. I got into a fist fight over there in that level two. That ended up removing me and I ended up going

to a level three. And that was in Las Cruces. What was level three like? The level three was real prison. So like the level two is a joke. Like it was a joke beyond a joke. It's you got cops over there saying get on your bunk. Go sit down. Go. It's weird. When I got to the three, I was happy I was in the three. And so the three, uh, the three, you know, there's lifers there. There's this and that. It's just more prison related. It was more mimicked my county jail. And, uh, ended up going through that level three. This is the roller coaster that, you know, it sucks. I, you know, I don't want anyone to behave like I did. I stayed in that level three. ended up getting into a big riot.

There's a group called the S&M and their Sinicato Novo, Mexico, and they're a prison gang. We ended up giving them the boot off of the yard. And so it was a big old riot. I ended up getting sent to the level six in Santa Fe from that riot. They gave me, I got, I was one of the first in cruises to do what's called the level system. And the level system just meant now you went to a level six facility. I did a year in the level six once you did a year clear conduct in supermax level six then they would move you to the level five which is still super max you come out five hours a

week and so uh and I did a year there I did uh one year in six one year in five and then I went and did uh a year in level four a level four is level four was hardcore man level six was was hardcore for sure you had look I'll even give you a roster of a rundown you had the guy did the Hollywood video murders, you had a sergeant at arms to the S&M. I was in between him and a commander of the S. They both were already ready to kill me because of what we did in cruises. So, I mean, they'd put me in. I got sent to the old death row unit just for the luck of the draw.

So I went to 3A. I was in a cell called S-109. I was in S-Pod 109. A lot of people will know that unit. And now I just sat there. I did the time, did all that time, went to the level four. The level four now is a six with the doors open. So, I mean, you can't get to a level of four unless you've went to a six or five.

Okay. Like they won't just shoot you to a four. You have to almost go do the level system or go to a higher level to be able to get into the four. And so the four now is, you know, the four was a no hands policy. So meaning there's no, there's no physical altercation. You have older men on the yard that are gang leaders and, and they have shot callers. Yeah, they have it set real simple. If you have any issue on that yard, which you shouldn't go ahead and, you know, you take care of it like that.

Right. Yeah, you come. Yeah, you come talk to come talk to us, but you can't, you can't just handle it yourself. No. It caused a whole riot. Yeah. So how long were you there? Well, you've been going year to year to year.

So you should be done. Well, I mean, so I got five years in prison, remember? So I spent, I went to Los Lunas. I spent a month there, just to give you on the time frame, I spent a month there in Las Lunas in the reception. And then as soon as you left the reception, it took about three weeks, about a month in the reception. And then I went straight over to the level two. I spent about eight months in that level two.

And then I went to the hole. And then I went to Santa Fe. I spent eight months to a year in Santa Fe, maybe a year, maybe even a little bit longer. Then I went to, gotten to that fight, went to the level five on pending transfer hold. Not as a level five inmate at that time, just as a disciplinary, but in the level five. So I got to slightly experience it. And then I, and then, you know, I spent about 90 days there until I got transported to the level three in cruises. I spent about a year in cruises and then got into that big huge riot and cruises, then went to the level six as an official at level six inmate and then spent a year and then went to the one to the and then went to the five and spent a year.

So I'm saying you got three, you got three years. You're almost at five right now. Yeah. Look, you spent, look, so I look at it like this. In Los Lunas, you got there in 2003 and and you probably, you probably spent six. months or you probably spent six months in in in in in Santa Fe so that was probably a year and then and then you spent uh you know a year in the other camps but they didn't have to let you out at five that you had to do five but you could do more are you lose you're losing gang time are you losing um good time this whole

i spent five years eight months in prison by the way i spent 1,827 days so i spent eight months longer than my sentence and that was because of the no no not due to anything that i did it was uh they had a backlog of inmates at that time they it was super packed you could look it up they almost got sued for it and and a lot of people were getting out late i was getting out on parole wasn't like i was getting out with nothing right and you were eating your parole time while you were still in there okay because you remember i got sentenced to one to ten with a five year cap meaning it was supposed to only be five in prison i spent five book club on monday gym on tuesday date night on wednesday out on the town on thursday

Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine. And it's good for your eyes too. Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam. Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. Five years, eight months in prison.

But that eight months shaved off of the five years that I spent out on the street. Yeah, there were some famous case in the feds where they kept a guy for an extra like year or 18 months. or something just by accident like they just missed it oh so you know what really now that i'm why i stayed a little bit longer was uh when i when i left finally left all the four and everything and i went to uh went to a regular level three yard i went to a place called hobbs new mexico and i was supposed to get released in there i was already ready to get released and so in one night in hobbs they call a big huge move list and they're opening a new prison in clayton a notorious prison and somehow i'm on the damn move list i only got a month left and i get on the move list

Well, when they moved me to Clayton, all of a sudden, they tell me at Clayton, we have to be open one year before we could release any inmates. So now I have to go on a transport back to Hobbs to get released. So that's what made me stay there for eight more months. Okay. Yeah. Well, when you got, but you, and you were released on parole, was parole basically like, like probation? Well, I was released on probation and parole because the five years, you're only doing two years

of parole. I had five years when I got out. minus the eight months that you had done over this day, but two years of parole and then three more years of the probation. So I'm saying I was on concurrent with parole and probation at the same time. So in other words, when I first checked in, you still had that year and a half of parole since you ate into some of it.

You still had a year and something on parole, but it was mixed in with the probation as well. Once you're done with a parole, then you would go to a different office and it would just be probation. Okay. Well, I'm saying, what's the different? What, like I'm saying, I understand that they're called different things.

but I'm saying is it basically the same thing or on parole? Do you have like an ankle monitor or are you, are they watching? Do you have, do you have harsher? I don't think we've had anybody. Yes. On parole. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Most of it's probation probation. Like is it harsher than being on paper? Yeah, but it's better. I didn't want to leave parole. I graduated. I was doing great on parole. And the lady was super strict. You checked in five days a week. When you went down to regular probation, you only checked in once a month. What's the difference? The difference of what? Between probation and parole. The difference of probation and parole is, I guess parole, you're still in the custody of the Department of Corrections. Okay. So you could sneeze the wrong way and go back. On probation, they have to violate you. Okay.

It's like being kind of like that that's how it is like in the halfway house. Like if you can do anything, they just be like, oh, they fill out a piece of paper and you're gone because you're still in BOP custody. Yes, that's what parole is. Right. That's exactly what parole is. But if you're on paper, you can fuck up. Yes. It's a whole process.

And then they have to convince a judge to send you that. And you go to a probation trial hearing or in the parole, none of that. It's, you get violated. They give you a hearing, but you're gone. Yeah. You know, so it's like that. And so, you know, that was when you, I'm sorry. No, go ahead.

Well, I was going to say when you got out, what did you do for work? Did you go straight and try, did you become a barber and try and do the barber thing immediately? Or did you have to, did you get placed in a job or like, how did you graduate? Yeah. When I got out, my mother was nice enough to say, hey, you can come stay with me as a grown-ass man. She lived in a place called Rio Rancho. Parole had to have a damn ankle bracelet, which I didn't know. And they said, you can't go to Rio Rancho because it's outside of your county. You must be in Bernalillo County, which is in Albuquerque. And so I had to go to a halfway house. And so I went to some bogus halfway house with a bunch of pieces of junk and sat around there. And they're all using drugs. And they're a low-life losers. And so I was like,

God, look, when I got out, I hold back. Tell us how you really feel. I feel like they suck. And so I felt like they were all losers. And so, uh, and they were. And so was I. And so what I did was, uh, at that point, I really understood and said, I do not after this horrible stuff and all the stuff that I did. And I don't want to go back. And so I said, you know what? I'm going to get a job, man. And I went over to my dad used to work at a grocery store. So I was like, I'll go to Smith and see if I can get a job. Went in there. No. Arm robbery. No. I ended up dumbing it all the way I call centers I went all the way down to like Taco Bell went into apply no uh went to Walmart no everyone's all well convicted felons that they get a tax break

they'll hire you at Walmart they ain't hiring me and so the answer was no so one guy that was at that halfway house that happened to be somewhat smart uh he said hey uh how come you don't go to school and i was like for what and he's like uh well dude you can you have to you're going to get violated, you have 30 days to find employment. If you don't find employment in 30 days, you go back. And part of that employment is either half-time employment, half-time school, or full-time school, or full-time employment. I decided to want to go full-time employment because I wanted to make money. I could not find a job. So I ended up going to CNM. I ended up going and getting an unsubsidized and subsidized loan. I ended up going into school. I stayed at CNM.

What's CNN? CNN is a central New Mexico Community College. Okay. Just to heel college. And I went there. I hung out there. I took a bunch of courses. I stayed there for, God, I stayed there for four years. I stayed there for about eight months to a year in school, getting a fitness tech degree. And when I stayed there, all of a sudden, I had done martial arts, like, since I was a kid and I'd done a lot of martial arts on the street when I was running the streets. And so I was like, oh, cage fighting came up. So I was like, oh, I asked my PO, do you think I'd be able to take a fight? You know, I'm friends with a lot of guys in the UFC. And so I was like, and there's still buddies with me to this day. So I mean,

I get good training. I'm like, hey, if I take a fight, will that constitute as a job? And she says, oh, absolutely. And I said, well, I'd like to do halftime school then. And I want to go ahead and do half time fighting. I moved into Greg Jackson's, one of the biggest martial arts camps in the world. John Jones goes there. All these guys go there. I ended up being the only one on parole living there in the dorms and waking up and fighting every morning. My last fight was. in 2012 for King of the Cage. Okay, so real quick, how are you paying for this? Like, you said you got a loan?

It's like student loans. Student loan. Are you getting pale grants? I got a pill grant and then I got two student loans, one unsubsidized and one subsidized. So I had like $10,000 in student loans. And then I got, and I'm poor, remember, I don't, at this point, all my stuff's been stripped for me, all the stuff that I owned, everything was gone. But that'll pay your, but the student loans, well, you're not going to live like a fucking

king, but it'll pay your bills. I was in a halfway else, man, paying $400 a month that was cheap. so i mean i was really easy to live and then i was doing and then when i moved over to greg jacks uh i got to stay there for free and so you know i didn't painting run i swept the mats i cleaned up i fought i trained i did i did all of that and and and and everything was going really good and all of a sudden uh one of the ufc guys had said i i was cutting all their hair in the gym just continuously and one of the guys like how come you don't get your barber license and i kept thinking dude i don't want to be broke i'm trying to go into the ufc like you guys so i can make

some money. And that was my main thing. I tried to get on the season of the ultimate fighter and a couple of the buddies from Albuquerque won that show. And I didn't get onto the show. So I started realizing, God, it's just not happening for me. And so I said, well, what's up with this barber journey? And so I was like, you know, and I said, yeah, so I went and checked out a buddy that had a barbershop that some of the UFC fighters were going to at the time. They all ended up going to a big UFC event one weekend. And he says, hey, man, can you stay back and cut some hair? And I said, well, oh, you, sure, I would love to. I had the passion for cutting hair. I didn't even ever want to charge. I just wanted to cut your hair the whole time in prison.

I just had a love cutting hair. And so I stayed back. I cut hair. I made $300 that day. I thought it was 300,000. Yeah, I was going to say, if you're already loved doing it, that how did you not put together that, hey, this is something. thing I can make a decent live I can make a legitimate legal limit and it's not they're not broke you know I'm saying like no offense but I you know every time I've ever going for I feel like I'm getting fucking robbed it is it's always like 25 30 bucks and it's like 30 bucks and I charge 55 plus tax in my shop right now just to give you an idea insane I take home about 1,200 a day that's crazy just to give you an idea of what it is now but back then I was uneducated man I really looked at it

thought UFC, you know, the guys that I won't even mention, but, you know, the buddies that are in the UFC. And, and, you know, I thought they made good money. And I was like, I want to be in the UFC. I want to make, I thought $100,000 a year was a lot. I was an idiot. I was going to say the, the disparity between the guys that are training and the guys that are winning. You know what I'm saying? It's huge. Like, the guys that are training to be those guys make nothing. This is the guys that are winning. Like, there's such a, it's, we talk about this. Like, it's like being a comedian. comedians are making $50 or $100 to go on stage and they have to have a full-time day job

to pay their rent and then one day, boom, you're playing the arenas and you're making $200,000 every fucking show but there's no, the difference is vast that's what I think of when I think of these guys like it's like football players that they train and they bust their ass forever to go and play with

they make nothing to play and then one day, boom, they're in the NFL and they're huge. Yeah. Yeah. I believed in myself. Show the camera. This is, I believed in myself 100%. I believed on myself 100%.

And that's why it was false belief at that point in time. Because like you had said, but I believed in it heavily. And I wanted to be in the UFC really bad. I never made it into the UFC. I'm glad that I did not make it into the UFC. I fought for King of the Cage was my last fight in 2012. And then, yeah. And then that day I made 300 bucks in that barber shop.

And it changed my mindset. I was like, God, you're living in a raft in the gym, cleaning the mats of UFC fighters. I was like, dude, I don't, you know what I mean? And when I made that money, I said, oh, my God, I'm going to go get my barber license. I ran to the barber school. Albuquerque Barber College ran over there and said, hey, how much is it? I want to get started immediately. They said it was $20,000.

And I, and that's when my heart sank again. I was like, can't afford. Well, you know what? So for barbering, for cosmetology, they did back then have uh they had a student loan they had uh they had a financial aid for the cosmetology but the barbering program for some odd reason zero financial aid i'm like how can they afford to get in the barbering program but i'll teach everyone a little secret here especially anyone that's in albuquerque or anywhere else there's a program called dvr and uh and all

of a sudden when i had remembered i was in county jail there was a homie named little venom and he said hey brother uh you're you're you're a barber hey you're sick dog he goes how come you don't uh go to dvr brother they'll pay for your license and you hear jail stories all the time i was like whatever dog i was like and got out and fought and did this and that and then all of a sudden i thought about it and said little venom from the west dvr i was like homie i'm going to look that up and i looked up dvr uh uh rehabilitational program i looked him up and i was like oh my god this is a program i rat away filled out an application for the program but then it said you got to be disabled and i was like well how can i be disabled and i said wow PTSD the medical marijuana card hey guys i'm

disabled now here's my disability and so i got into the program uh they said hey you pick a barber school well it took me about six to eight months to finally get accepted into the program living on my last bit of money having no money and then dvr finally uh said hey you're accepted uh here's your acceptance letter, go ahead and pick a school. Your next step will be to pick a school and then go ahead and bring us the information to that school and we'll cut your first check. They don't pay for it up front, but they do a semesterly check funding. And so if you get straight A's or you're graduating grades and you get to get funded. And so that was the first time I've been given anything and I sat there and I got straight A's and I sat in that program for 10 months. I became a master

barber out of that program. I went to a local barbershop. That same day that I graduated the school, same day i went to a barber shop and i was working there the following day and so that next day i went in there and for six months i worked at that barbershop and and and i never knew anything about business and i sat there and learned every single thing that that woman did at that business every single thing that i liked and that i didn't like i took that and i compartmentalized it and i opened up sir men's salon the best barbershop in albuquerque and i opened up that barbershop and i opened it up with these guys are going to trip to come to sir men salon i love all you guys Shout out to you guys.

I opened up that barber shop and had nothing in there. That's why I respect this so much. I opened. I had nothing. I put one chair in there. I had nothing in there. And it's grown in to be a beautiful shop. I believed to myself so much that I threw the chair in there.

I had 25 years of hair cutting experience without a license. Are you still in the same location? Have you gone to a lot? I'm in the same location. I've been there for six years. Since I graduated barber school in 2018, I worked at the barbershop. at that other place for six months and then I opened up in 2019 into my shop and I've been open ever since. Do you have other barbers? I have another barber. I have other barbers that work there.

I had one other barber in particular. She knows who she is. She's opened her own shop on the west side. Shout out to her. And so now I've started a coaching program. I've started two programs, a coaching program to have barbers be able to open up their own shop. You can make a lot more money when you're your own boss. It's hard for me to sit back and you know what I mean and not indoctrinate him. you know opening up your own shop is monumental uh work a lot harder opening up your own shop too right you work a lot harder so for some people that may not you know fit into that category then you can still look i i mentor and you can go booth rent somewhere and still make the same amount of money you can't booth rent out of my place because i don't hoard it out like i'm not about the money

you have to really be truly elite and we could either do a percentage or you know whatever until you know that's how i do it now yeah i was going to say um it makes me think that whenever you know you've heard people oh i want to open my own business i don't want it's hard you know what i'm saying like doing the doing the taxes keeping the books because you're doing that you're typically doing all that and you're having to do you're working 50 hours a week and you're working another 30 hours a week making sure all the you know the rents paid the electric that everything's the licensing are up the insurance is up you're taking out you know payroll taxes you're keeping up with your taxes because if you don't keep it with your taxes then the end of the year

you basically going through hell for two weeks trying to scrape together all your all your crap like it's a it's a balancing act so if you're not working 40 i sometimes think to myself like how fucking cool would it be to just have like a w2 job where you're just going in you know you're showing up at nine you're leaving at five you like you don't have to worry but they don't have to worry but along with what we do comes great reward so it's kind of like i i i don't mind putting in the extra work because i'm saying what we are able to do financially and everything now is much better. The tax thing I got really lucky on, my uncle was a CPA. He also did like APS is our Albuquerque public system school taxes. He used to be the superintendent of APS.

So I'm saying as soon as I opened up the business, like to give you an idea to my family, my uncle's like the first mayor of a small town Chamon, New Mexico. We have a real good family. And so when I opened up the business, I knew nothing about business, but I knew everything about cutting hair. But all I knew that is, hey, gross receipt sales, you know, four different taxes. a CPA that, you know, mentored me really good. And, and, and, you know, I started really learning taxes really well. Yeah, that's, that's where I am now. Colby's got somebody, don't you? My wife found, uh, um, tax strategies. Yeah, I was going to say, I thought it was a family friend. I really just here, here, you know, I had to go through hell before we finally found a CPA.

Yeah, this is our second one. Oh, is it? Yeah, I had someone that just, uh, just, uh, I mean, just didn't winging it. Not winging it, but. That's what I got. I got somebody who's winging it right now. I've had somebody who's winging it for five years, bro. Like, I've just got. There's good CPAs and bad CPAs.

A good CPA doesn't want you to pay taxes. A bad CPA wants you to pay taxes. There's something called a game. And when I play a game, I play to win. But I also play by the rules. Yeah. So it's like, you know, that's all taxes is. It's a big old manipulation.

You could turn your company into an S corp. Then you can just say you wanted to pay your wife. Now you can cut her check and it's a tax right off. You know, you're projected. to pay $50,000 this year in taxes, you could pay her a salary of, you know, $45,000 and, you know, washed the other five. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We found, we found, we found, we had somebody was over, I think overcharging us and didn't really know what was like, we had to correct his numbers like, hey, like these numbers are way off. Like you're saying our income is double. Like we should know this much. Like, yeah, I basically had a bookkeeper who's, she's kind of like, and then we, one time we went last year.

Did I tell you this? We went to H&R Block because we were going to go ahead and have H&R Block file the taxes. Like just we're going to give them the numbers, but we have them all. Gave them the numbers. The woman came back and was like, you're getting, uh, or she's like, oh my gosh, you're getting a refund of $300,000. And I went, I don't know if it was 300 or $600, whatever was, it was outrageous. Like there is no way.

I wouldn't take that. No, of course. But I'm saying there's no way that this woman could possibly think. that I'm, I'm getting 300,000 back. Like, nobody's getting 300. I'm not, first of all, if I'm making, you know, $200 million a year, maybe I'm getting it, and I overpaid, which you're not,

and you're getting a check back. Like, nobody's getting 300,000 back, okay? That's not happening. Now. You're paying in. And I'm like, what? And she's like, oh, yeah, yes, you're getting 300,000 back. And I went, no, no, no, no, I'm paying in.

I always pay in. First of all, I don't want $300,000 back. I don't want to go to jail. Yeah. I can't explain that to the judge. You know, secondly, I owe $6 million, so I don't ever get anything back. So I know even if that went through, I know they just take it. But it's irrelevant.

I don't want it back because I know there's no possible way. And I'm saying there, I'm arguing. She's like, oh, no, no, it's right. I'm like, lady, there's no way that I made this much money. And they're giving me back, you know, three or four times more than I'm made. And she's like, no, that's what the, and she started to argue with me. And I'm like, I'm going to go to prison. Yeah.

going to send me to prison. And then the bookkeeper looked over everything and she was off by a little bit here and there in one or two places. She had messed up the numbers. Yeah. And then it came back. It's like, oh, no, you owe $3,500. Thank God. Like, I never been so happy in my life to pay. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I pay quarterly. So it's like, you know, but yeah, it's, it takes a you know, to figure out everything. So when you say you pay quarterly, do you pay projected taxes? Is that what you're doing quarterly or is it? Or are you doing your gross receipts quarterly? No, I just pay in a couple thousand dollars every quarter just so that I have something paid in so that at the end of the year when they say, hey, you owe 12 grand. You're like, I got paid an eight. I owe, you know, four grand, like whatever. Like I don't want to be hit, you know. So I, and also if you don't pay in quarterly, then, you know, I pay monthly. Oh, I pay quarterly. Once you make a lot, they, they'll start making you pay monthly. I'm just saying you'll have to do that. I'm not there. Yeah. I'm not there. No, but you will be. And no, it's not nothing great. I mean, but you'll pay monthly. I pay mine every. month. Mine's more than my mortgage. Well, you're also, would you also have say it? Like I'm,

I have a store. I also, I have hair product. I have $1,000 scissors. I have haircuts. I have everything. All your stuff, right? This is all my stuff right here. This is Cermen salon right here, guys, everything. Yeah. Yeah. This one's too glittery. Yeah, I don't like that one. That one's no good. Well, how long have you been at that location? I've been at my location for six years from 2019 now till 2025. From January 14th of 2019 until now. Oh yeah, it's the fourth

in 10 more days. Yeah, I was going to say, what happened during COVID? During COVID I became rich. Oh. I compartmentalized strategies, dude. I don't look. I looked at it like this. When COVID came, it was time for daddy to become rich. And so I looked at it like when COVID comes, all these losers are going to drop off.

But I looked at it really like this. When COVID came, you've had people that have been in barbershops for 25 years. when COVID came, we put us all on even plainfield. So now we were all brand new. And so I really took advantage of that. I take advantage of it in the sense that I was the only one in Albuquerque doing like nothing but appointments.

So I was already strategically set up for it. I was far ahead of the game. I also, my barbershop, I named it a men's salon. So I'm bridging the gap between traditional barbering and salon culture. Somewhere where a guy can come in and, you know, have $1,000 shears, you know, used on his hair. It's styling a little bit more, but also clippers on the same. side if you wants, full on

scissor haircut if you wants, washing your hair out with $100,1821 shampoo. Are you able to talk about, like, some of the big names that people will hear you cut? Yeah, I can talk about them. Yeah, I don't know, yeah. I've cut John Jones with the UFC. I've cut Diego Nightmare Sanchez. You guys can

all go to their Instagram profiles. I'm on went to, you know, I've cut let's see who's there if I cut. I've cut John Jones, Diego Sanchez, Alistar Overeem, Chase Sherman, God, I've cut a ton of,

and if I didn't mention any name, I've cut tons of UFC guys hair, tons of BKFC fighters, Donald Sanchez with the BKFC, I've done all their hair. Diego Sanchez is one of the guys in our shop. It's like a, you know,

he's stuck in our shop. Now for a fight night, are they going clean shaven? Everybody has a beard now. Yeah. So for Fight Night, the guys are going with a beard. Yeah. So for a normal barber, what's your biggest piece of advice to make more money?

For my normal barber, to make more money as a barber, my piece of advice would be, do something that someone else isn't doing. So if everybody's closed on Sunday and Monday like the barbers are open on Sunday and Monday. That's one simple scenario. also make sure that you guys are charging the right amount you know what i mean factor your taxes into that uh you guys uh take time to enhance yourself your craft the better you are at your craft the more money you make so i'm saying the better you get at your craft go start social media go become famous on social media the more you do to enhance yourself the more you're going to make yeah it seems like everybody that's doing well now has some kind of an instagram or

YouTube or TikTok, like they're combining it somehow. I started at 18 bucks a hair coat in 2019. And guys, I'm at $55 plus tax. So it's kind of like, you know, if you're getting into it and you want to start a shop or open up your own place, I highly recommend to have your pricing a little bit lower than it should be to catch the interest of the public. And then once they see how good you are, they're kind of sewn in. That's what I did. And so, you know, knowing how good I was, I did that low price and I did that for an entire year. and then I went from 18 to 25, and I went from 25 to 35, then I went to 45, and now I'm at 55. Do you think the result of the haircut or the personality cutting the haircut, which one do you think is more important? Because me personally, I found a barber. I like the cuts, and I go there now because I know him and I just talk to him. It's the result of the cut number one. It's a combination of the two. If you're an asshole, you know, they're all gone. uh but if you are great at your craft and let me give you another pointer guys show up early if you guys look i i open it so i'm open seven days a week monday through friday i open from seven a m until uh 5 p.m on saturday i'm open from 7 a.m until 2 p.m. and on sunday i'm open

from 7 to 1 and so uh you know if i were you guys i would show that dedication guys like to see the dedication the haircut to answer his question has to be superior so you should really focus on that, but if you're able to add in personality, then you're a winning factor. The more things you can add in, the greater you are. So if you have a great personality and you're also a great barber, then you're winning. But if you're a great barber and with not so much of a great personality, you're still winning because at the end of the day, that haircut has to be elite. You're selling that haircut. So for someone who's never been in prison or jail, like how do they get haircuts in prison? Is there like a barbershop room?

is it is it kind of like a hustle that you just do on the side or is it like here here's the official jail clippers and you can do this for one hour a week or something that's a great question there's everything and so uh me i worked in the barber shop i was also what's called the staff barber i cut the cops here on friends of them uh you everyone so like just say echo pod will be on tuesday for haircuts so everybody in echo pod's going to get lined up and go get their haircuts. So they're going into a barbershop to get their haircut from me. I also run that prison barber shop. But before I got the prison barber job, I would take the straight razors and those little orange razors that they give. And I did haircuts in the pod. And so, you know, you can do

that as well and start there. Yeah, there's usually at least one guy or two guys that are in the one razor fades in the unit that that are doing or or they would have in the feds. They used to have the the actually shavers, right? And so they're still around. They don't sell them anymore, at least not in the places I want. Yeah, the Norocos. But they still have,

but guys still have them, you know, and they'll, boy, they're expensive, but these guys will use them. They'll go, you'll walk in the,

you'll walk in the, uh, or it depends on where you are, but if in the low, you'd walk in the bathroom, there, the guy would have his chair there and you'd have. Put a trash bag around his head.

How much is it? What was it back then to pick your brain? It was probably four bucks, five bucks. And was that in the feds? That was in the feds. So the feds is more high end than the state for sure. And the feds was $4.

We were about two bucks at that time. Just to give you an idea. Like $2.00, though, at 50 cents an item back then, I do not know what the items go for today. But I'm saying like Nutty Bar, Honeybun, they're 50 cents an item back then. That's four items back then when you had nothing that you're making off one haircut. I did a haircut in like 15, 20 minutes. That was going to say, that's a lot of money. So you're coming back with a bag of store at the end of the day.

Does every prisoner get the same haircut? no that that is a myth these prisoners want it all and so it's like these prisoners there's no don't hard part comb over razor fade double triple hard part it's like they've hickers are swearing that you know they're going on a date that night yeah so it's like you know i i'm bald so i didn't you know what i mean but yeah no they want it all they would have the they would have the pictures up in the in the barber's uh shop in uh coleman they'd have like they'd have like four pictures up that you could pick from it nobody was going with any of those fucking focus like they're all wanted something different they want something outlandish and crazy and

we don't use scissors in there guys ask a hey a tj you don't use scissors in there how do you do the haircut just with clippers man you could get the top of the hair pull it up and cut it just like that you know with the clippers you shear over comb guys shear over finger if there's no comb can you trust a bald barber no no hey you know what though uh geez that is a good question can you trust a bald barber uh god i would almost look at it like in reality uh i guess the barber doesn't have to have hair to be good at his craft yeah but but it's you know the joke is he doesn't you can't have a the joke is you you don't trust a a bald barber because he doesn't respect your hair is that you've heard that i've heard similar things like that it's funny it's like i'm looking up

i look every now and then i'm looking at videos about hair transplants and things like that and like some of these guys that are giving this advice are bald Yeah, and that's what the comment section say. And I like that comment section because that's kind of an, you know, that's kind of an oxymoron. It's like, you know, you're bald and you're giving hair advice. But we can say, yes, you're allowed to be bald and give hair advice because as long as you have a license or you read the book or you do know what you're speaking of, you're allowed to do that. But it'd be weird like a tattoo artist who has no tattoos. Yeah, I was going to say, or a skinny chef.

Lacking validity. Yeah. Did you have any overwhelming feedback from any of any of your other interviews? in the comment section like as far as like people pointing out or saying certain things hey man all all the guys in the comments could kiss my royal ass and that's uh that that's some real shit i don't you know you keep staying in the comments i want to hear all that and so yeah no i've heard this and that in the comments and look my shops right there in albuquerque i'm on monaul in wyombe you want to come by do you just come over i don't see the comments section being a big

thing we could you want to do it professionally we can go to jacks i whatever you you want. And what are you posting on social media? Like what's your, if someone goes to Instagram, what are they going to see? Thomas Baca Barber on Instagram, guys. And you're going to see haircuts. You're going to see me giving mentorship. You're going to see me talking about skills for success, talking about how to, how to, you know, how to grow a business. And really a lot of hair cutting on my channel. I have a YouTube. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants.

Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Channel that has three million views and they're all Thomas Baca Barber. And on that one I do just strictly haircuts. That's what they like. I'm on my YouTube, I mean on my Instagram, I'm a little bit more, uh, you know, with mentorship, uh, haircuts and, and a few other things mixed in. Some UFC fighters on there. you guys want to see the UFC fighters and see if it's real go look at their profile and then they have pictures of me cutting their hair on theirs and then also go to mine and you can see it all what are your thoughts on um vick blins have you seen seen that guy yeah my thoughts on vick blends is he's nothing and he's also fake sorry guys i'm just telling the truth vick blends isn't

real vic blends is uh it just uh i i just see it as uh it's just not it isn't uh Vic Blends is cutting the president's hair But he's not having real conversation Vic Blends is He's too polite He's too I want to have a real channel I want you to see the real deal

I want to you know what I mean You get the president in there I'm going to act the same way as I act here I don't know who is that He's probably like He's real famous for sure He's real famous He's probably 30 years old

Probably my age And millions of years Yeah he's cut famous people's hair But he's like He's white guys tatted And he'll like be on the street cutting people's hair yeah but he's also so look you guys want to talk vick blends he's also you want to get real about it he's the brother barber so what about the what about me

the chicano barber he cuts all the blacks hair and i don't mean that in a bad way i'm just saying he's a black barber look at him look at the way he talks look at where he's from i'm i'm i'm different so look for look for my videos what's the difference between white white hair black hair cuts white hair cuts and you know Hispanic or whatever because i remember one time I went to a, me and my buddies from college, I was on a football team. So, you know, 75% of my friends were all black in college. And we all went to the barbershop, our first summer there. And it's a black barbershop.

They all got, you know, fades or whatever they got. And then I sat in the chair and I told him, yeah, two on the sides. Two on the sides is just blended in on the top. And the barber sat there and he's like, he's like, you know what? I don't feel comfortable. He's like, I can't do this for you. So what is the difference between all the different races, haircuts? the difference is the texture of the hair so when you have straight hair and you cut into that

straight hair it will sit differently or it will react differently to the cut uh if you have very curly hair there's techniques to use to have it come out equally as elite it's the texture and the hair that's different a little story i was the first black barber in the state of new mexico in in prison that was allowed to cut black hair also allowed to cut the cop's hair uh chancy johnson a black barber that was leaving you know and eugene galloway ended up blessing me with the job i was the one to go out and take that black crowd i'm a big believer in though you should start off on black hair if you start off on black hair it'll strengthen every bit of haircut that you're going to ever do so another

little secret to the barber's out there learn on black hair and if you learn on black hair uh you'll be a better barber first of all i don't know where you're getting these questions and secondly i don't know i never where are you guys seeing these videos they like that stuff for some reason, those questions that you're, because it's like, for someone, these are like, these good, like, little punchy clips. Yeah, Vic Blins. Yeah, I'm, bro, I'm not hip at all. I don't know anything. I don't know anybody. I, I, I, and he's nothing to you because I'm saying he's not in your trust me. Well, I'm saying, too, the other thing about like the haircuts, like, I never get. I wish. The only videos I have of haircuts that have ever shown up all my thing is that there was a barber who was shaving this chick's hair who had cancer. And then he shaves his hair. Bro, I almost like, that's a testimony to who you are.

Bro. Now that you link to me, they're going to start showing up. it's i wish i would have brought my clippers to cut your hair and and i brought my scissors but those don't do any good i spend them too but but i you know i really wish i would have brought my clippers to give you a haircut that would have been amazing to me listen i need a haircut like it's like i wait until i wish i would brought those do have a haircut before i go i wait till you got great hair dude i can see how your hair is i would take i would take about a quarter inch off the top i'd have it nice and cleaned up keep the sideburns there i i you can get a nice hair you got that high end hair i can i can easily dude i would you would you would

have been mind blown. This is fake. This is from the back of my head. This is, I've had two hair transplant. Are you serious? That looks great. I need one more. Are you serious, dude? Colby and I may be going to Turkey. We may be going to Turkey. Yeah, we may be going to Turkey. I know someone that went to Turkey out of my shop. That was the results. Amazing. Like literally, because he was really bald. And so when he came back, he came back with a little bit less than you, but it's still a phenomenal. Does he still have his liver? Because I was told by Julian Dory, who has a channel. called Julian Dory. He said, if you go to Turkey, he goes, you're going to end up getting kidnapped and somebody's going to take your fucking liver. Oh my God. No, he still has his liver.

No. I will. There you go. See? Julian. Julian, he still has his liver. I'm telling you right now. He has the liver. It's not going to happen. Callflower ear. So does that happen from one impact or just impact over time? Collieflower ear happens over a magnitude of years. And it's also called what's call the medical term for it is polychondro hematoman it's when blood collagulates in between the skin and the cartilage it's you have to be in in a thousand fights for that to happen and but it's only the one ear and so when you wrestle and just pretend that you're taking a shot you know from the right side you might get it more you know your your ears leaning on your hip right and so for it comes from friction and and and also from a lot of contact yeah a lot of guys will get it on one year a lot of guys

get it on two years. A lot of guys to get it more on one year. I still have some in here, but for the most part, you know, a lot on here. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button at the bell so you get notified of videos like this. Also go to Thomas Barka, Thomas Baca Barber. And we're going to leave the, you don't even have to do that. Just go to the, go in the description box. And we're going to leave all of his links. So you just click on it, go there, follow. And you can be able to get in touch with them through, I'm assuming Instagram and whatever. And consider joining our Patreon.

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