Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Close Calls Escaping The Military Making Millions Pilot Smuggler Tells All

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

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Making our 75,000 a trip. Ghost Guard following me. 10 feet above the water, open the door and I kick it all out. I'm literally so low, I'm going in between high-rise hotel buildings. You want to die now or you want to live? Just as we're taking off,

they're shooting at us. There's a little airport called Lantana And I applied for flight instructor. And I got hired. This one guy comes out and says, you want to learn how to fly. I was like, fine. And so we're flying. I'm fine.

I'm asking, well, why do you want to learn how to fly? He's because I'm scared to fly. I was like, okay, that's a first. Anyway, after teaching for a while, I had to go over his house to teach him ground school, you know, take the written test too. And he had this big scarab, 33-foot scarlet with three engines on it. I lived in a small, he made all this nice stuff. and wearing all this big jewelry and everything.

And I'm like, all right. So, you know, one day I just asked them. I said, I go, what do you do for a living? He goes, I'm a commercial fisherman. I go, wow. Wow. That's, that must be really lucrative. I know.

I wouldn't think of it that way. Me either. And so you could all that stuff fishing? He goes, well, I didn't say that. I'm like, oh. Then I was like, okay. I go, well, if you ever knew a pilot, just let me know, right? So as time went by, we ended up becoming friends, him and his brother.

But I worked for these two brothers, you know, and they had me find a small assistant, like being a scout, making sure DC3 when it's dropping, it's not being followed. Right. That was one thing led to another, and I ended up becoming their pilot. And now I'm flying back to forth to Jamaica. Why? Why? Why are you going to? They like Jamaica?

Well, yeah. It was the closest place to go for pot. And they told me in the beginning that they would never transport cocaine. Two reasons. One, people doing it, die from it. And if we make a mistake, we'll get killed for it. I was like, okay. I said.

Also, the penalties are much different. Huge. Much different. Yes, it's much different. But those were the things that we were concerned about our life, not actually ever getting caught at the time you, I felt invincible. I felt invincible, put it that way at the time.

I know the feeling. Okay. They're not going to catch me. Well, actually, they never did. So the first one we ever did, we had a Cessna, 411. And at the time, we weren't quite sure if we had enough gas to make the trip. They had an island in the Bahamas where they had paid off the customs so we could go back there and land after we were done. So I went down there on the first trip.

loaded with 1,200 pounds. This max that this plane could take. 3,000 foot runway with water at the end. So when you take off, it's like you take off and, you know, like here's the cliff, right? You're taking off and because it's so short and you're so heavy, you kind of cut it down and then you go back up, right? Like, that's the way it is. So we go, we drop off our first load and now it's getting dark. And I realized we don't have enough gas or fuel, I should say, to get back to the island we're supposed to go to.

So it's an island that's called Freeport. It's real close to the, it's the closest island to the state of Florida's coast. I've been there a few times. Well, at nighttime, it's closed. So, okay, cool. We've got to land in there, you know, make a call and have somebody picks up or give us some fuel so we can get out of there. Just so happened, they had a special charter going on. They were open.

So we go in there, immediately we're approached by customs, the airport customs, get out of the plane. They hold me up against the plane. The other guy that's the kicker, he's not a pilot, he just kicks the stuff out of the plane. They take him and they start beating him. So I go over to help him because it's me. It's where I am. Right. Well, the guy, the officer next to me putting the gun to my head.

And it says, don't move. So, okay, I'm not moving. And so they take us in and put us in a little cell at the airport, and then some more police officers come and get us and bring us to Freeport. What was the issue? Like, why they didn't just grab people randomly? I mean, there's... Well, we're in a plane.

It has no seats in it. We're landing without... So they know, they know smugglers. They know. They know. They definitely know what's going on. So anyway, we get brought to Freeport, because we're really. ended, it's called West End of the Grand Bahama Island, and then these other police officers come in a car,

picks up, and take us to their facility in Freeport. It's probably no bigger than the area that we're sitting in, and there's eight of us in there. And there's two Bahamians in there. There's like a seat, a little bench for two people. So we're there a total of three nights, four days. First, they take the kicker out to question them. Because what they want to do, they want to try and find out what stuff is they want to go get themselves. Right.

I mean, it's obvious, it's gone. Because when we drop the boats right there, the boats pick it up, okay? So it doesn't matter. Well, I figured maybe they wanted to kick back or something. No. Something. Okay.

Anyway, they bring my, the kicker back in. They take me out. They said, we want to know where he dropped it. Because apparently the kicker told him, but he can't say where, because he has no idea where we're at. He just knows when you say kick it, sir. Correct.

Right. He says, nah. I said, I'm not going to tell you. I says, it wouldn't, do you ain't good anyway? This is why? It's gone. Tell us where. I said, no.

So they got a five gallon bucket, you know, like a paint bucket, maybe stand on it. They threw a rope over. They had like wooden trusses and put a noose around my neck and say, you don't tell us what I kicked the bucket up. It's, if you go, it's right here at the, no. No.

I said no. I don't know why. And it's not there anyway. I'm not going to tell them. I'm not going to go down that road. When I was a kid, I was used to get in a lot of fights. And I just, I'm not going to go down that road. I'm calling their bluff.

That's a hell of a call. Well, it worked. Okay. Because I'm here, right? Right. So they put me back in this little hole, dirt floor, no air condition, hot as hell in the Bahamas in the middle of the summer. And the whole time, I mean, I,

know the people we work for sooner or later, they're going to get us out. I mean, don't know when, hopefully it'll be in time before something else happens. So I come in and I never wore jewelry, watches, no identification on me at all. It's something you just don't do when you're doing these things because you don't want extra attention to you that somebody bad might want to take something for you. Well, the kicker, he had jewelry on and I came back in, he didn't. He didn't have it. And, uh, they take him out again. So I got, I had, I had a, I had a chain on that was given to me. I wore, never took it off. So these two Bahamians, you know, started backing up against the law. I says, you're not having it. She's, well, we got your, your, your buddies.

I go, so, you know, I have mine. So the two of them got up and the other four guys are just like, white guys in prison, too, for, I don't know what, drunk, being drunk, whatever. So I did, and I Don't get me wrong, I'm not a badass. I'm five foot eight, you know. Back then, I was 155 pounds. And the biggest one, the biggest one, I hit him right in the face. I said, no, you ain't getting it. I'm sitting there now.

That was it. If you don't show fear, a lot of times, they back off. And that's what happened. So now I'm king of the room, and they're over there. And they got let out. And when they got let out, the guards, hey, did they take something? They didn't get anything from me. They got something from the other guy.

So they ended up getting them, getting the stuff back, and putting back in another cell. So anyway, make a short, this one out. After that was done, we ended up after the, excuse, the third night, the fourth day, we got out. The people came for you? Yeah. They just let you out. No, no, people came for me. So the same cops that put news around me next, okay, we need to take you to the prime minister's office, you know, president of the Bahamas.

Okay. So we get there and we're sitting my kicker myself sitting side by side and prime minister's sitting on his desk and the police are right behind me. And apparently, I didn't know at the time, but they paid the prime minister like 15 grand. And this is going way back in late 80s. So that's considerable amount of money back then. That's a nice chunk of change right now. Yeah, we're now 15 grand. Yeah, me either.

Exactly. So he promises me, goes, I know the two years. I know you're the pilot. I've been told what's happening. I go, I can tell you're a stand-up guy. I go, thank you. He goes, all I can say is if you decide to do it again, just don't get caught. Have a good day.

Off we went. Okay. My friends were there and they flew us back. So you went and you got a job as an accountant. And then that was it. You forgot all about that. I got all about it. Okay.

I get it. I get it. Thank you for going by. You're welcome. So what happened? That was just the beginning. So after that, we come back and we have a meeting because they, two brothers work for other people too. They all work together, whatever the case.

So we're all sitting in this room. One older guy at the time I was. obviously young. This guy was old. And first question he asked was, is you want to do it again? Go, where do we leave? Are you concerned? I mean, what did they say like, oh, that's kind of bullshit or we'll just pay them again? It's not a big deal?

Or were you guys concerned that, hey, this was, we got a pass. We won't get a pass next time. No, no, the thing is, no, the trip was successful. We just got caught. No, I understand, but you're still, what if you get caught going through it again? That's the, I mean, no offense, but, you know, If you thought the Bahamian jail was bad, the prisons and the Bahamas are horrific. Oh, yeah, I know.

You know, so I can only imagine. I didn't plan on it at that time. I know. But I just, you know, hey, back then I had elephant balls, right? Right. Now I got raisins. What can I say? I understand.

I hear you. So, anyway, you know, guy goes, like I said, I said, yeah, when we leave? He just shakes his head. He goes, you know, I used to be just like you when I was your age. So the second one we do, it went fine. I did everything, flew back to Jamaica, dropped it, flew to the island, because what we'd end up doing, we had the same airplane, but we added a fuselage tanks, so we had more fuel.

Right. So now we know we can make it. And still it's 1,200 pounds and more fuel. So now it even makes it harder to take off. But it's all good. Did you ever see that the, did you ever see the, the Tom Cruise one. Yeah, that's a remake.

Yeah, yeah, no, I know. I remember, saw the original one with, what's the guy from Easy Rider? Yes, I know he's talking about. I can't think of his name. He's great. No, no, he's, um, I know who you're talking about.

Is it Dennis? I can't believe I can't think of his name. I should have looked it up before I came here. Yeah, he was, uh, yeah, he was great. Yeah, yeah, but that, that, that, he's making me think of the, the scene where that he's trying to take off. He's like, there's not enough. And then they try and get the fat guy to sit, come with him.

He's like, he's not coming with us. Yeah. Yeah. And then they keep putting on more product. He's the way, that's enough, you know. But yeah, that's the way it was. If I didn't have trees at the end, like he did, I had an ocean. Right.

So I'd rather have the ocean than the trees. Yeah, I was going to say. Because you still have an opportunity to pick up some speed. Yeah. Well, not of that is the survival rate of crashing the ocean is like 98%. Right. Because you can land if you know. The trees aren't soft.

Right. No. They're not forgiving like the orders. So, uh, second we did, you know, everything went fine,

landed to where we're supposed to land. And then, you know, we stay there for a day and then we file a flight plan and come back. So it looks, you know, legit. And in the meantime,

now at that time, we thought we could fly low and circumnavigate the radar, right? Back then you could. Today, it doesn't matter. They can see you anywhere. Right. So I would literally be flying about,

10, 15 feet off the surface of the water. So by the time I get Jamaica, they'd have to clean my windshield off because it'd be full assault. The third one we did. Now, what it is, in Jamaica, the police are legit. The military is corrupt. So the police and the military do not get along.

Now, there's times where they have these small airports and the police set up tents and camps, you know, just so people can't come in and do things that are wrong. Right. And they let us know when they leave. And then we go and do another trip. So this is the third time. So we go, we go.

They said they're gone. Can I ask you a quick question? Sure. What are you getting for this? Back then, I was making a 75,000 a trip. Oh, okay. I'd take a beating for 75 grand. Yeah.

I don't know about a prison stint, but yeah, okay. Well, about that was 75 grand. Like, what is that? Like, this was what, 30? How many years ago? This was around 1988 because I was arrested at 1992. Jesus, that's like that's over 30 years, almost 40 years, 35 years? Long time ago.

Wow. 75 grand back. That's like getting $2,300,000 now. Today, yeah, exactly. And that's what I was getting every time I went. But it's a third time we go. What is the... What is your...

wife saying? I'm sorry, hate to keep interrupting you. What is your wife saying? Does she think you're working a regular job? No, she knows. She knows. She's not my wife no more. Hasn't been free. She's, I won't go to that part. Okay. That's all. Yeah. The wife I'm with now is, it's amazing. They say the third time's a charm. This is my third one. My first one was, eh. My second one passed on me. Now I'm married a third time. Anyway, yeah, she knew. Okay. At the time, we were separated when I was doing it for a while and we end up getting back together. Big mistake. But anyway, she knew what I was doing.

But, you know, didn't know how, when, where. She knew nothing. She just knew what I was doing. Right. And she was very materialistic person. So she used all for it. Yeah. Because the more I make, the more stuff she could buy, you know, whatever the case may be.

I know. I think I feel like we were, we are, may have been married the same woman. Go ahead. Yeah. So anyway. And then as soon as it goes bad, it's like, I didn't know anything. Oh, yeah. What are you doing?

You know what all? First thing she did, she went to the safety deposit box to get all her jewelry, the Rolexes and everything. They had already seized it. Oh, I was going to say, are you shy. I may need to see a picture of her. Yeah, that's all she cared about. I mean, she's horrible.

Anyway. Listen, mine was a safety deposit box in there. went to the Secret Service agent, our Secret Service office, and said, I found all these passports. I didn't know they were in there. I just wanted to help you guys out. Are you serious?

It didn't hurt me or anything, but it was like, you know, you could have just chucked them. Like, yeah, I'm already in a bad spot. And anyway, anyway, can they? No, but it didn't help that they hand, she handed them five or six, you know. Like, why do you need that, right? Yeah.

Well, you know, she was making sure like, hey, I'm with you guys. Yeah. You know. Yeah, right away. Yeah. With you until it goes bad. Yeah. That's how you really find out who your true friends are or not.

I know. That's a shame. I hear you. That's fine. It is what it is. We live and learn, live and learn, right? Hopefully, some of us. Doing the third one, go down there, land.

I get by, we put us straight next to this. It's a little building where controls all the lighting for the airport, you know, the airport lights at night and stuff like that. And there's basically two windows without, windows, but they're like ports. And we're sitting there, sitting there, fueling up the plane, right? Putting a product in the plane. And a freaking idiot is smoking a cigarette while he's low fuel on the plane. He throws his cigarette on the ground, throws the five-gallon tank on the ground,

and starts kicking fire. And the grass there is like dry and it's about a foot, tall, it starts immediately flaming. I got shorts and I go over there. I kick the tank as hardly could get away, and I start stomping out at the fire. Now, by time I'm done, I got no hair on your legs, right? Everybody's looking at me, you're crazy. I go, if I let it go, I got no plane.

I'm stuck here. No way I'm not being stuck here. Anyway, so after that, the military caught the kicker, same kicker, me into this little thing where the electric is. And they're carrying M-16. It's full fatigues, like military. And the guy's fingers shaking like this, right? I'm like, oh boy, here we go, something's going on.

Now, at the time, the brothers, one of the brothers is up on top of the mountain in Jamaica with the other guy they're working with, looking at binoculars watching. I was in here, pow, pow, pow, pow. I'm like, what the hell? And we got radio, right? I can hear him, like, oh, my God. I'm like, what? They just shot a police officer and threw him in the ocean.

So after that was done, so I understand. So I understand. You've got a radio and you're in the control center with the, with several soldiers. Right. And this comes over the radio? Yeah, because what it is, we got a, just a radio that, so I can talk to the guys up on it. Yeah, I understand. But I mean, don't the soldiers hear what just happened?

No, they don't have radios. They're just between me and them up there. It's like a separate radio on a different channel. Well, I understand, but they're standing five feet away from you. Like, is it, like I think of the radio like being on speaker phone, like so that you, They couldn't over hear it. They could hear it. Oh, my God.

They don't care. They're, like, so nervous. They probably didn't even hear it. Okay. Because they know, they know what's going on. They know their militaries down there. And when they hear the pop, pop, pop, pop, they know what just happened.

Okay. Either their guys got shot or the police got shot. Right. Well, in this case, the police got shot, and they threw them in the ocean. Okay. And then we got the plane and took off. Again, it's a sexful trip.

Right. They didn't stop you? Who? The two soldiers that, We're standing with you. No, the soldiers are cropped. They're on our side. Oh, okay, okay.

Okay, okay. See, I missed that part. I thought they grabbed you and pulled you in. No, no, they told me. Well, no, they grabbed us and pulled us in to protect us from the police. Oh, okay. Because they make money off us, what we're doing. Yeah, they're with us.

They're like on our team. I'm always thinking worst case in here. Yeah, no. It's all good, but now they were super corrupt. That's a big, that's why they don't get along. Anyway, so that was that trip. Then, uh, context is everything. and corrupt in this scenario of working for you.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, no, there's corruption and everything, that's for sure. Now they're like, you know what? Let's see if we can do this by bringing it straight into the airport in the United States. I'm like, what? I'm like, dude, you got to be kidding me. He goes, no, let's just cut out the boats.

It's less expense. And right then I go, okay, then you're paying me a lot more. I'll just say they're pretty balzy with your fucking life, aren't they? I mean, I found out they didn't care about me at all. at all. I thought they did because I seen, like, when Boat would get busted, they would help them out, give money to pay for lawyer or whatever. So I thought, okay, they're cool, right?

In my case, that's not what happened. We can get to that later if you want to. But anyway, so, all right, what are you going to pay me? Well, we pay 75 now. We'll pay 85 a good now. I see, pay me double, because now I'm doing all the work, right? And says, well, I said, well, either you pay me double, order, we don't do it. I said, I'm not going to do it for that amount of money because now I'm

really put myself at risk, have to land at an airport in Viro Beach where I used to work as. Yeah, yeah. I was going to say, and I'm not going to be able to pay off the fucking guards. I'm not going to be able to pay off. Like, they grab me and it's over. Right, game over. So they agree. So we go and go down there. And now I'm by myself because we didn't need a kicker. Let's go down there, do it, come. And I had a friend of mine, that was in the Viro Beach Airport Tower. So I would call him on the radio saying this is, you know, Cessna 4112, Bravo, coming in for landing,

am I cleared to land? So he would be looked like this to make sure I wasn't being followed. You know, he had from the tower of the airport, and so yeah, you're clear to land. So I land and where we used to keep the airplane up there at this time, I just rolled right into the hangar. A couple guys with the van, unloaded the thing, took off. So another sexful trip.

Now that at work, they wanted me to keep doing it. Yeah, the more you do it, the better chance you have. It's just all in matter. Like, you may be able to get a few trips in, but at some point. You're done. So, okay, the next one, we do the same way, right? Tried to do the same way. So I go down to Jamaica, coming back.

Now, this one's, this is pretty cool. The next two trips are really cool, but they didn't work. Neither one of them worked out. So this one, I'm coming back, supposed to land at the same airport. Now, this time, our plane is actually based in Lantana. We're not in Vero Beach no more. So I'm coming back. I'm over by Bimini, which is a small island, Bahamas.

It's almost direct across from Miami. and I'm headed northbound and then events you make over the coast. So before I start coming, and there's clouds and stuff, because we always operated when it was like bad clouds, bad storms, because it helped cover us, right, rather than being clear out, and they can see you another plane. So I do what we call it S turn. I turn like really sharp 90 degrees, and then like I'm going this way,

and I real fast go the other way, and I look up in there, sure shit, here we go. Citation, Ghost Guard following me. So I get up in the clouds. I put it on autopilot. Because I know I'm done. There's no way I'm got to be able to get to the States with it. So I put it on autopilot.

I'm in the clouds. I open the door and I kick it all out. I didn't care where it went, right, who it landed on. It didn't matter. Close the thing up. Come down. I get real low to the water. I'm 10 feet above the water.

coming in towards Boca Raton, right? I looked at this time and I'm like, son of a bitch. There's a freaking Black Hawk paralleling me, right? I'm like, ah, man, I can't get away. So come up to the coast, I'm literally so low, I go in between high-rise hotel buildings. The Boca Raton Airport is right on the other side.

So what I do is I land with no, I mean, it wasn't a tower opposite. right. It's just to stand in airport, you don't need to clear its land, right, before you get in. I even landed with the wind. You're supposed to land against the wind because I didn't have time to be going all around. Right. So I landed right with the wind, come in, and I immediately put it on breaks. I park in with all the other planes, you know, private planes. And so I'm sitting there, right? Here comes this blackout, go right over me, right? It kept going because it thought I went to Lantana because that's where the plan is based, right?

So I get out of the plane, I go, I need a taxi. Taxi picks me up and going down 95, right? Going north, try to get back home. So the dispatch calls the taxi and goes, hey, could you pull over for a minute? I don't think you're your pastoral mind. So I knew right when was going on. So I go, hey, here's a $100 bill. Just give me some time.

Get off the next exit. dropped me off at 7-Eleven and give me 10 minutes is all I ask. So he did. Right. I called another taxi, got in, and went about my way. Went right by Lantan Airport when we got down to where we're going. Because my buddies told me to meet them at this titty bar. I can't remember the flash dance, it's called.

It's out in Lantan off of Congress. It's not there no more, but that's where they told me to beat them. So we're going right by Lantan, and I'm watching. I can see this, I mean, it's all kind of law enforcement out there because they're thinking that's where I want. because that's where the airplane is based. So we get to the flash dance. The guy drops me off.

I go inside the two brothers are there. And apparently somebody could hear stuff on the radio that was going on when they were chasing me. And we got to go. So we get in their truck, we leave. And I said, how did you get away? What do you mean? I says, here I am.

I guess they had friends that have like radios and they can hear stuff going on. Right. We thought you were caught. I said, well, I'm here. And actually, right after we left the Titty Bar, I guess, I don't know if it's customs or who it was, swarmed the bar. But we were already gone. So they were like one step behind us the whole time.

Right. So that was the best way. Best way. Oh, yeah. It was awesome. It was great. I mean, the brothers that work for, they're like, we cannot believe you here. This is unbelievable.

We thought you were done. I was like, well. one thing I can say is I know how to fly. I'd rather be lucky than good. Yeah, I hear you. I guess I was lucky and good. So the thing is that ended that one. And of course, we lost that plane.

So we just go buy another one. And this was actually, let's see, I'm trying to think here. This is the last one. Yeah, this was the last one we did. and I was supposed to be done. Their brother-in-law, another brother-in-law they had, he was a crop duster pilot. So he was going to take my position,

and I was going to be able to sit back, and they were just going to pay me every time they did a trip, but I didn't have to do anything because I earned my stay. Right? That's the way it works. I feel like a crop duster is probably not at the same level as you. No. Or was he, it was a good pilot?

He just happened to be a crop duster? That's what he did for living. Okay. Okay. And, you know, I mean, they fly low and what have you. but definitely not the level I was. Right. That's for sure. But it didn't matter.

I don't care. You know, I'll teach you the ropes what to do. So, of course, there's bad storms. We're going down. And you know what a water spot is, right? It's like a, it's the same thing as a tornado. Yeah, yeah. It's over water.

So it can damage anything just like a tornado. So we're going down and there's like five water spouts. And I'm flying like this in between them around to get to Jamaica, right? So we get down there, we end up, instead of being by the little building, we went down to the very end. That's where they wanted to load us. I didn't know why, because we always parked at that same spot. No, go down all the way down to the end. So I went down to the end, and we're sitting there loading us and fueling us.

And all the way of all of a sudden I looked down at end and the runaway is like four or five guys running at us, right? I'm like, son of bitch. They were doing that camp thing and they didn't tell us that they were still there. You know the police. I was telling you that camp on the... Oh, yeah, they were on the other end. That's why they had us park on the other end of the runway, which didn't matter.

So I say, hey, you guys need to hurry up. Get us loaded up. We get in the plane and we start taking off. And I'm let my brother-in-law fly. And when you fly in, when you're taken off an airplane, you always have your hand on the throttle. Always. And you've got to...

And this type... It's a piston airplane. It's not a terrible problem. So you've got a full throttle when you're taking off. So we're going, he's doing it. I'm sitting there watching, you know, make sure he's doing everything right. Here come to these guys. He starts to back off.

I grab his hand and I hold it for us. I say, no, you want to die now or you want to live? So I'm holding his hand because he wanted to stop. Yeah. And we stop. We're dead. So we got, just as we're taking off, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, they're shooting at us. Holes in the airplane, right?

Now, this is the part of it, right? But we get up, we're going, thank God they missed our fuel, right? Otherwise, we've been screwed. So, actually, it was a successful trip, in a sense, because we were able to get the load to the boats. But he was freaking out. It's his first one. Right. I mean, he's like, I'm never doing this right.

Yeah, he must not have understood the seriousness of. Yeah. No, he doesn't. Right. Yeah, it's like, oh, we can stop it. It'll be okay. I can, no, it won't be okay. This isn't the U.S.

No, you have no idea. We may be going off the end of that runway in the water. You know, they don't care. And the laws there are not like they are here. Right. And either of the prisons, like you were saying. So we take off, we get up, and we drop to the boats. When we're dropped to the boats, though, we're actually being followed by Coast Guard.

But the boats didn't tell us because they're the ones that are supposed to let us know if being followed, right? So, anyway, they're in a... It's called a Piper Cheyenne. It's a turboprop. I had dropped to the boats. Boats picked it up. One of the boats ended up getting caught. But the rest got away.

So this is my last trip. And so we fly by Vero Beach, and it's all orange groves out of Vero Beach on the East Coast. And it's this small grass strip, you know, air strip for landing, but small. It's grass. So this is the only way we've got to get away because I can't shake the Cheyenne. So I land down the grass strip and I land so short that I'm like actually in the middle of it. So they can't land behind me. So they can't get down.

So we get out of the plane and we start running. And it's all these like little canals with grass and stuff, right? So I'll say, okay, I can hear a helicopter coming. I mean we need to get in the canal. He goes, what do you mean? Heat seeking. We get in the canal. So I go, we get in the canal.

And I say, you hold my hand. So you know I'm there. I know you're there because you're not leaving until I tell you we leave. Now we get this grass and stuff all over. So just our nose is out of the water so we can breathe. You can't see because of the grass and muck and shit. So we're sitting. We were in there for three hours laying there.

And you can hear the custom. There's customs, the police, the sheriff, the Coast Guard, all looking for us. And you hear the helicopter going back forth. Looking for the heat, right? They couldn't find it because we're in the water. Right. And you can hear the guys going back and forth with dawn. Come up, come up, boy, come up, boy.

But the smell of the muck, I don't know if it's like the black mud. Yeah. I smelled for like two weeks. I mean, you can't get rid of the smell. It's that bad. So they couldn't smell us either. So. There's all kinds of stuff.

And there's death in there. There's decaying fucking animals. Everything. Exactly. But I mean, you know, when it's your life and you don't want to get caught. No, I'm saying the smell. I'm saying the smell is overwhelming out of the woods for a dog. Like he's got dead, dead things here, things are buried, there's bones.

Correct. So they're not going to find you. Anyway, so we hear the helicopter. You hear it start to go off in the distance, right? So I popped my head up and the helicopter's gone. So it's come on, let's go. So we start going. And we're in orange groves.

Now we can start hearing. Like people, walking, right, talking. So he's obviously, you know, law enforcement said, hugged the trunk of the tree. That was pitch black out there. So he's hugging the tree. I'm hugging another tree.

They walk right by us. And they didn't have dogs. Otherwise, we've been, well, maybe not because we smelled so bad. They might not smell the human, you know what I'm saying? But they walk right by us. Now we hear, here we go. We hear the helicopter again. Dive back in another canal, about 30 minutes.

They leave again. Now we get out. We don't hear anybody take off. And call a friend of mine who lived in Vero Beach. He came and picked me up. His dad was a judge in Viro Beach. So funny. He brought me over to his dad's house because he knew it was safe.

And his dad came out. Man, I heard all the plans in the helicopters. He said, good for you. I mean, you said, I'm glad to get away from them fuckers, your assholes. I'm like, excuse me. I hope that's okay. Yeah, that's fine. But it was so funny because he was like, he's retired.

Right. But he knew how corrupt some of these people were. So that was the last one I did. Right. And then I'm not sure if you want me to go into how I got caught. I mean, yeah. I mean, you didn't just retire and say, yeah, I'm good. Yeah.

I'm not in real estate. I mean, wouldn't you? No, I didn't. I ended up serving a couple of years. but what had happened is the brother-in-law, of the brothers I worked for, I thought, a good friend of mine. And I understand what he did

because he was off doing something else. He was off smugging cocaine. He got caught. Okay. So he had kids, family, and he was looking at life. Right. So he was wired,

and they wanted me, because I was a pilot, figured they'd get everybody else if they got me. So he got, busted. He got busted. He cooperated. How did he, what, were you guys still friends? Yeah, but we never knew he was busted. Oh, okay. None of us knew he got caught. How long ago was this? How long was this after you stopped? This was about four months. Oh, okay. After I stopped. Oh, I thought maybe it was years later. No, no, no. No,

this is right after. So four months later, you get a phone call, hey, let's go have lunch or something like that. Yeah, exactly. And then we sat down and talked. It's ironic because years ago when him and I was sitting at the barons. You know, Ernie, don't ever talk about old times because it won't make you no more money. Right. Should have listened to him. Uh, so anyway, we talked and he was asking me these questions, hey, you think we could do this? And do you know the people over in Jamaica? And I'm like, yeah, of course I know them, you know, and I figured, because he wanted to start doing his own thing and asked if I'd go with them. I was like, yeah. You know, and I guess I said enough that the, uh, and Fort Pierce is like, not much goes on there. So the custom agents and stuff,

there. They want something to do. Normally, if I was down in Palm Beach, they wouldn't even have looked at me because they got too much more to do. Anyway, they ended up, I had a jet ski shop. That's what I was doing on the side. And never been arrested, never been in any trouble ever in my life. It's a small little mall. It's got like six stores in it. They surrounded it, all dressed in black with shotguns, frigging M-6. I mean, he's like 30 of them. Like, I was like some mass killer. All right.

I just laughed. I mean, it couldn't help me. Of course, I came in my door, you know, like screaming in like six of them and throw me on the ground. I mean, it's just like you see on TV. It's true. I know. Yeah. They're serious.

Yeah. They're very serious. But, I mean, they know I didn't even own a gun at that. Right. I mean, nothing. But it's funny if they just knocked, came in and knocked at your door. at 9 o'clock in the morning and say, could you come down,

you'd have been like, yeah, sure, no problem. Yeah. You know? I know. No, they have to act like they're all strong and tough. Right.

So that's what happened. And I don't remember any of them except for one. And he was new custom agent. He wasn't corrupt yet. I guess I should say. His name was Dan Banks. I'll say his name because the guy's awesome.

He saved many years in my life because he told the truth. Right. Because what happened is, the brothers did, didn't help me, didn't want to help me, didn't want to have nothing to do with me. I'm like, wait a minute, you helped all these other people out, all these years, and now you don't want to help me, and it's your own family that got me in this predicament. Yeah, it was my mouth, okay,

but as your family, they actually did this. All right. Nothing, I wanted nothing to do with me. Now, another one of their brother-in-law's, which was actually the brother of the other brother-in-law, because they were married to the sisters of the two brothers that worked for, He kept saying, man, you need to help him. I said, you help everybody else. Why aren't you helping him? So anyway, I said, okay, you're not going to help me. You got to leave me out in the dust.

Your family did this to me. You can call me whatever you want. I didn't say that to them. But if I'm going to be able to get out of a 15 to 20 years sense by helping, I'm helping because you're not helping me. Right. After all of them, I mean, if it wasn't for me, they wouldn't have made the millions.

What they paid me was peanuts compared to what they were making. Right. Anyway, and I don't want to talk about it because I don't really care. what people think. And my dad at the time, he was the one that was helping me pay for the lawyer. Even I made all this money, I bought a house.

So I didn't have the liquid assets to do it. I did a lot of things that had a lot of... Put it this way, I don't regret anything I did for those four and five years. Right. I lived more in those four or five years than most people live in a lifetime. I mean...

I understand. Yeah. So it was... For me, for me, it was worth it at the time. Would I do it again? Absolutely not. Right. But, so anyway, I started helping law enforcement.

And I was wired and all this. But the thing is, is I was able to let them know what I was doing so they wouldn't say anything wrong to get them in trouble. Because I didn't put nobody in jail. Even though they were screwing me, I wanted, I was trying to play both sides. That's a mistake. But it worked. It worked. but it's also a mistake.

Just because it worked doesn't mean it's not, like they could go bad on you. You get a lot more trouble. Right. Well, they, I mean, on tape, it was told that if anybody ever helps them, we will kill them is what was said to me on tape. Right. That alone right there shows I helped, right?

I mean, they had a lot of recordings from five, six different people. I mean, and these customers act like they are, I mean, they think they're like Hercules. They think they're almighty God. I didn't give it. Dude, I said, you guys aren't nothing. I go, you think because I'm helping you that you're going to tell me what to do? I go, no, it doesn't work that way.

I said, I'm done with y'all. I went to my lawyer. His name's John Tierney. Awesome lawyer. We end up actually becoming friends. Super, super good guy, criminal lawyer. And he was the one that was, you know, helped me the whole time as far as what I'm doing. And if you can even look up the case, and my case,

was the first ever and all these other criminal lawyers were watching it to see what would happen because it would set a precedence for people that did help and would get what is coming to them and reward for helping what year is this like 1992 okay so this is shortly this is after what uh they had switched to the new system right like 86 they switched the new system where because it prior to 86, um, cooperation didn't help you as much as after 96. Like in 86,

they passed laws, the federal laws. So cooperation, you got a huge benefit by cooperating. Right. You got horrific sentences. Right. If you could get a life sentence for fucking,

for weed. I know. It's crazy. It's legal now. It's ridiculous. I know. Um, but if you helped, if you helped and,

if you cooperated, then you could get your sentence reduced. And it's more than that. Instead of charging with a bunch of bullshit that you really didn't do, because that's really, they pile up stuff on you, they basically say, well, this is really all he did. And we'll reduce his Senate. So there's a huge benefit to. Yeah. So this must have been, when you're saying this is the first kind of case that you must have been like after those laws, so they're still trying

to figure out what cooperation means. Right. You're right. You're right. Exactly. Who did you cooperate against? Like, was it the guys that? The brothers. Oh, the brothers. Okay. So they weren't helping you. No. So you said, okay, well, then I'll, I'll cooperate against them. Right. Okay. I get it. And then the reason I did that is because it was their own family that put me in position. No, I understand. They should help me. You don't have to explain to me.

I'm ready to cut these two dudes' heads off. I don't even fucking know them. I hear you. I mean, they're A-holes. But anyway, I didn't think that. I thought we were like tight, you know. But so anyway. Everybody's your brother till the rent comes due.

Yep. Just like the friggin' our wives, right? Jeez. I know. I know my wife I have now is going to watch this, so I'm not talking about her. No. I know. Anyway, so after all the help and everything, they didn't want to help me.

I said, no, you didn't do good enough. You're going away. So my lawyer is like, no way. So what happened, we had to go to trial, to fight for what I did do. Right. And this was happening in Miami. This is great now. This is super great.

So what it is is my lawyer had to get another lawyer. because he's going to have to go up on a stand and question. He has to testify for you, yeah. And same with the prosecutor. So there's two prosecutors because one has to get up on the stand. The other one has to question them, right? And then you get all the custom agents there and blah, blah, blah. So anyway, and I didn't know this now.

I'm sitting here with my lawyer and his friend, that's a lawyer. And the prosecutor is sitting there. And, of course, the custom and the agents back there that were involved. And the judge comes out. So, you know, you stand up and we sit down. And the judge looks over at my, my, lawyer's friend. Hey, I can't remember his name, Joe, whatever. How you doing, Joe? He's like, I haven't seen you in a long time. Dude, the prosecutors turned apple red. They were flaming,

because they knew right then and there, they were in trouble. Right. And I was like, I was like, just, you know, because I think, he pulled a fast one. My lawyer did. Anyway, make a long story short with the prosecution. My lawyer goes up there and testifies. A prosecutor goes up there and testifies lying like crazy. And my lawyer starts getting mad. I mean, he starts yelling. His friend said, John, settle down. Come on, you need to settle down because didn't want to blow the case.

But he ended up retiring because he couldn't take it no more. He said, the biggest liars in court are the law enforcement. Yeah. I said, you serious because yes. Those U.S. attorneys and law enforcement. The worst. They justify it. Well, so when you're a lawyer, so basically your lawyer because he was a part of the cooperation

and what the agents are saying to you and what the U.S. attorneys are saying, your lawyer then has to testify at trial. So he gets in front of, he goes up and says, and obviously he's being interviewed by, or cross-examined or whatever, by your prosecutor, by your new lawyer and the U.S. attorney.

And he's up there to say, my client cooperated. He was told this. He was told this. He did this. He did this. He did this. He contacted them.

He got them to say this. He got them, you know. And then, of course, the U.S. attorneys getting up there and saying he was never promised anything and we told him this and he didn't help and he could have done this and he wouldn't listen to us and he didn't, right? So he didn't do exactly what we said. Correct. Okay.

Yeah, I was good. I mean, I know how it goes. When you say he had to go and testify, that's what they're testifying to. Correct. That the level of your cooperation. Correct. And I also know that it's like, it's funny because people think. think, you know, oh, well, you give them a name and you get something. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, it's not that. Not just that. They'll tell you like, do this, do this, do this, and do this, and we'll reduce your sentence. Then you do this, do this, do this, and then they say, it didn't result in anybody getting arrested so we can't give you anything. You said, wait a minute. My life was still put on the line. I still did everything you said. It's not my fault that you didn't arrest anybody. It's not my fault that they didn't incriminate themselves. I did everything you told me to do. I know it's just not enough. Yep, exactly. Well, go fuck yourself. I could have gone to trial. I could have done all these others. We didn't promise you anything.

Yep. Listen, they're fucking pieces of garbage. They are. And that's exactly right on the money there. So they get all the custom agents up there and testify and what have you. And Dan Banks goes up there. And he actually told the truth. The who? Dan Banks. Okay. He's the only one that told the truth. Right. I have everybody. Well, the judge could see through it. I mean, you know, a good judge can tell. Yeah. So it's all over. We're all sitting there.

And, you know, we all stand up. And, you know, judge gets up. We all stand up. And the judge calls, Dan Banks, could I see you in the office in my chambers? So he followed him into the chamber. He told him, he said, do you think this person learned his lesson? He goes, absolutely. You think you'd do it again?

No. Because of that, okay? Instead of getting 15 to 20, I got three years. Nice. because the judge said, I have to give you this. He says, if there wasn't these guidelines, you know how they had the guidelines, that I would have given you probation. And I could tell you, and all these prosecutors at times were there too, right,

when they were sentencing me, said, I could tell every one of them were lying except for one. He didn't name any names, but that's what he said. But he says, I'm bound by these guidelines. So I end up getting three years. But Dan Banks said at least 12 to 15 years of my life because he told the truth. And so that's how I got caught. They were never able to catch me in the airplane. There's no way.

Right. I was too good. Right. Oh, here, let me tell you this. I forgot to tell you this. This is funny. The Cheyenne, the Coast Guard pilot told whoever to tell my lawyer to tell the pilot, you know, I'll like, well, I don't know who the pilot is, but I'm going to tell you this.

Right, right, right. Because at the time, my attorney, he couldn't. Yeah, he couldn't say, yeah, that was him. I'll tell the pilot of that plane because he's saying that wasn't you. Exactly. Right. So the pilot had told whoever to tell my lawyer, so my lawyer told me, you know what they said about the pilot?

They said, first of all, they would have never landed on that grass strip. They said, second of all, they don't know how to. the hell you did what you did. Being I stopped in such a short distance. And they said to begin with, they would have even never landed there. So I thought that's pretty cool. Coming from another pilot, that's a compliment. You know, regardless, you're doing something wrong.

It just shows you, you know, you know what you're doing. Right. I've taught many people how to fly. And I only had one person ever fail when they went to take their test. And this was the one person that brought. other than I taught, he went down to take his flight test, and he failed for, you have to do a practice stall, and then you recover, and you have to do it in a certain way. He came back, I didn't pass. We talked about it. So he told me what happened. Now, at the time, there was another

instructor down there from Lantana Airport, this is why I was working. His student was getting ready to take a test. So I called up to FAA, you know, examiner. I said, can you please explain to me why my student failed? And he said, well, he did this stall and he recovered, but he did this. I can't remember the exact terminology. But anyway, because I've been a flight instructor for years. I mean, I had hundreds of hours teaching and never had anybody fail. And I was teaching at a college.

And when I got back, he was my very first student. out of teaching people at college, I did the same thing. I mean, he had his license in two and a half months, which is not normal. Usually it takes people a couple years because they don't have that kind of time to fly every day, right?

So anyway, I said, no, I said, that's not grounds for failure. Failure. I says, do you know what the grounds for failure in that particular maneuver is? And I told them. I said, I've been doing this a long time. You just failed my student for no reason.

Right. He said, well, just send them back here. not tomorrow, but the next day, and I'll fly with him, and we'll just do that one maneuver. I like, okay, but I go, you shouldn't have failed him. He wouldn't say anything. He said, okay, thank you very much, bye. Anyway, the flight instructor was there and heard the call when he came back. He goes, Ernie, what did you say to that guy?

I just told him that he failed my student for no reason. He goes, man, you scared the shit out of him. And that's the only person that's ever failed out of the umpting amount of people I trained to fly. So, you know, I was pretty good. All right. So where'd you do your time? I started in Pensacola, a camp. Yeah.

Which, I mean, you know, that's such a waste of money. It really is. I mean, it's a waste of money. It's ridiculous. And then what happened was one brother that did go to prison, not because of me, he was already going to prison. He was already in trouble too. Anyway, they moved him to Pensacola.

So they made me, they transported me to another prison called Talladega. Yeah. I'm sure they wouldn't have burnt down a long time ago. Yeah. But that was up on, up in the hill. Like they had the, up on the hill was the bad people. Down below was the camp. Right.

Right. But that's where I went. But it was, I mean, still you still lose your freedom. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter how, it would matter if you put. people up in the Ritz, it's still suck. Like, it's still, you're, you're still confined to an area. You can't see your family.

You're limited on phone calls. You're limited on, of course, back there it was no email. So, you're limited on everything across the board. It would still suck. It does. It sucks regardless. But, you know, I, it's funny. And I've always believed in the Lord.

I'm no, this guy, well, your wife has a cross. I don't think this will offend you. No, I go to church. I was going to say, I go to church every Sunday. I do you. Okay, good. Then I want to tell you this because it means that to me. That's a, so that's Roman Catholic, right?

That's the cross, right? Yeah. Yeah. We just go to like a non-denominational, but I was raised Catholic. Yeah, me too. And my wife is, uh, Filipino, hardcore Catholic. So we have to go to a Catholic church. Oh, it's a lot.

I always, whenever I go to the church with my wife, like the ones we've, we're the same one now. But we did kind of jump from church. You know, you're looking for one. One was too far away. Okay. It's an hour and a half dry, bro. It's a three-inch plus the church. It's all day.

It's an hour and a half there. It's an hour of church. It's an hour and a half back. Your whole Sunday's gone. Then we went to two other churches, and I just didn't like them, bro. I didn't like the preachers. They were, I didn't like them. Didn't feel it.

I didn't feel it. So I, and then we just, now we go to one, that's not that. It's actually small. I like the bigger ones, but this is actually a smaller church. every one of the, you know, preachers that gets up is totally cool. I like everything about it. I feel good when I go, and I'm going to always do. But, yeah, but I was going to say, like, when you go to, like, Catholic Church, as opposed

to these other ones, listen, it's like aerobics, bro. It's the kneel and the standing, this. It's a whole routine. And, like, here, you just have to stand there. And, you know, they sing. I don't have to sing. You know, I just stand there. And then they give a sermon and then they sing.

And then everybody starts to slip out. And it's so funny, too, because even my. wife, as soon as they start singing at the very end again, she'll start to leave it. I'm like, where are you going? Like to me, my mom, like, she would, like, you're leaving when the he says, it's done. Nobody's slipping out early. And so to me, leaving church early, I'm like, what do we even come for? What are you doing? We're going to hell. You can't leave three minutes early. We got to wait until these fuckers stop singing. So, you know, she's always like, you know, so anyway. But anyway, yeah, so the Catholic Church is, it's more of an exercise up down, up down, up

down. Unless you have a really good priest, you know, most of them aren't, you know, you don't get that feeling. We have one that's good when he preaches. It actually feels good. But anyway, it happened when I was in Pensacola. It's the first time I ever been putting, they call it the hole. Yeah, yeah. The shoe. So, and I didn't even know why, but it's because the brother, they transported there and they couldn't have us together because they knew it would be a problem sooner or later. And of course, he spread the word down I'm a rat, whatever. And, I was like, well, I don't give a shit. You know, you can see I'm a rat, but you're the asshole that put me here.

Right. But I'm going to be out in a couple years. Yeah. I'll put money on your books. Well, he was the head dude. He only got four years. Yeah, something's up with that. Exactly.

Tell me about it. So. We'll have to pull up his sentencing on Pacer. I'll let you know. So anyway, they put me in a hole. And, I mean, I'm in there. I'm like, I know that on the other side is like the desk where the guards are. So I'm like pounding on.

Nobody's freaking telling me what's going on. I'm sitting there for hours. I'm like, pissed, right? So I'm like, you know this ain't working. I got down on my knees, I started to pray. I mean, I've always believed, but prison brought me back, right? You know, and five minutes I started praying, guard opens the door, the head dude, head guard.

He goes, hey, have you showered eating or anything? I said, no, come with me. let me took shower, you know, by myself, whatever, and brought me some food. He said, you like to walk around the track? I'm like, sure. So we walk around a track with me. I mean, this is like, this doesn't happen. Yeah.

And like, sorry I this happened to you. It shouldn't have been this way. And then he explained to me why. I'm like, okay, I understand. And you've got to be transported. And, you know, normally when they transport you, you're in your oranges, you shackled with a bunch of guys on the bus, right? And you go.

So, okay, so they put me back in the whole. and I'm praying again, thank you, God, for him coming and helping me to calm me down. Next morning, guy comes to get me and goes, okay, we're going. I go, okay. Come with me. No, man, nothing. Right. Puts me in a car.

Guy by himself, a guard, drives me all the way up to Talladega, Alabama. And on the way, we stopped from McDonald's, he pays for it. It brings me to Talladega, and it already, like, went through the thing. And he says, no, I'm staying with you until you get your place because I don't want you getting stuck up there. I mean, with, you know, lifers, right? So he stayed with me until they actually checked me in, walked me back down the hill and made sure I had my place and I was done. Then he left. I mean, that don't happen.

Yeah. And it just, ever since then, I was like, like, I read, I mean, I don't know the Bible like I used to because it's been years. I read that thing back to back 10, 15 times, you know. And so that definitely helped me get through it. And like you said, you got pretty much no contact. At the time, I was still with the shithole of the wife. But we had kids, which at the time I thought were mine. Oh, are you slow?

Yeah, exactly. So she just messing with me the whole time. I mean, talk about what we were actually together. And somebody told me about it, And I didn't believe it. But anyway, that was that, you know. But that's basically my story. Now, you know, I've did multiple things since then.

I've always owned businesses. I never really haven't worked for anybody since I worked as a pilot. You know, I own transportation company. I owned a call center in the Philippines. But now I'm basically retired. but I do still trade. I trade 4X. I have a lot of fun doing that.

Were you able to still be a pilot? Oh, no. No. That was the first thing they took, but they also said that we're taking it, but in X amount of years, which is way back when, that if you want to get your pilot license,

you back, you can, you just have to go through the training. I mean, I have to get written tests and take a flight test, because I ever got the hours. I wouldn't have to accumulate the hours. So I could do that, but I never did it.

You know, I just, do I miss it? Yeah, I miss it. Every time I see it playing, I, you know, this is what it is. You know, I'm 65. I'm happy, you know, I've got an amazing wife. I got a 13-year-old daughter that is like just unbelievable, you know. 13 years old, bro. I started over.

52. Yeah, I, when I got a prisoner, it was like, you're going to have a baby. You got to have a kid. You got, I'm like, I'm 50-something years old. My other kids all grown up, you know, in the mid-30s and, you know, married or off. And, you know, I met my wife that I have now, and she wanted kids. You're kind of a hip 65-year-old. Well, that's because of my kids.

Yeah. They kind of kept me in the realm of reality of, you know, the things that are going on at the present time. And my daughter obviously does that now. But, and she's just incredible. I can't say enough about her and my wife. But the thing is, what's really funny is we wanted to have a baby, right? And we went through customs when she came with me from Philippines, but she was an Australian citizen.

So things were a little bit easier to get into the United States. So if you talk about immigration to my wife, she will go nuts. Because she's a citizen. And we did it all legally. So she can't stand all that garbage. But anyway, so we're in non-examination. like a walking clinic, because we knew she needed to get a physical for part of, to become a citizen.

There's a special physical, right? So we were there, and the lady is a lady doctor, and she goes, well, while you're here, while we do a pregnancy test, because they're going to want that too. Yeah. Like, all right, well, we know she's not pregnant. She just had her period like three weeks ago, right? And so while the doctor's down, I'm talking to my wife. And again, I'm 52, right?

At 51 at the time. I says, you know, maybe we ought to ask her where I can go to get a fertility check. Because I don't know at this age if we still have babies, right? So the lady doc comes back in. She looks at my wife. She looks at me with his big smile. Your wife's pregnant. We look at each other.

We just are busting out laughing. I'm like, no way. I mean, you know, yeah, she's pregnant. We, I mean, I guess I don't need to ask you the. The question I need to ask is, well, what was it? I go, I don't need to ask you. She goes, well, what was it? I go, I was going to ask you where to go to get a fertility check.

She almost peed her pants. It was so funny. I mean, we wanted it. We just didn't expect it right then. Right. And now I got a 13-year-old daughter. She got like 100 medals for swimming. She just started doing track in eighth grade.

She's just amazing. She's like her grandmother, my mom. My mom was like a tomboy and did all kinds of sports. I mean, if you look up Tyke, Gans, it's T-Y-K-I-E, and Google her name, the first 10 pages will be all my mom because she's that popular with artwork. She's not around no more, but she's very, very well-known in the art industry. And I'm very well-known in Google in a different way. My dad, my mom always said, I'd write a book. I said, it's already been done.

That's why I never bothered. When I saw that movie, not doing with Tom Cruise, but the original one, yeah, yeah. When I watched it, I was like, I've never seen a movie that was more real lifelike. Because I could relate. I knew how it goes. Right. I mean, that movie seriously, he ends up, unfortunately, dies in the end of the movie.

He gets shot in his car. It's funny, because did you see the remake? Yeah, I saw the one of the Cruise? Yeah. Yeah. So the problem I had with the Cruise one, as opposed to the original. original one, which was like an HBO thing, right? Where they talk about how basically the judge says, I'm going to put you in this halfway

house. You have to turn yourself in at night. And he's basically like, and he says to the judge, he's like, what are you talking about? Like, you can't do that. Like, you're going to get me killed. Yeah. And he gets killed. Yeah.

In the Cruz one, they don't do that. They don't focus on that. Because in the, the, what was his name? Come on. He was an easy writer. Dennis Hopper. That's it. Yeah.

Nice. Hopper. Yeah, that's a great one. I'll bet you that's probably on HBO. I mean, I'm sorry, probably on, it's probably on, on YouTube. You could probably buy it. Yeah. That one was good. That one was about as close you can get to what really truly happens. Right. I mean, it's, it was. That was, it was amazing, too, that he gets, um, there's so many things that I remember about that movie that when I watched the remake that were comical. Remember, they put the, the camera in. And he, he, he, he, he, he, he had to push the button and it went, sco, chk, he goes, you're going to get me fucking killed.

Listen to this fucking thing. They're like, well, I mean, it makes noise. What do you want to? It's like, fuck. So he has to keep the engines running.

Right. And then he has to tell that they're like, shut the plane down. I can't. We got a leak. We got to keep the engines. But he had to keep him running

to hide the noise. When he's taking the pictures and he gets done he gets, then you get pictures of Noriega inspecting the product that he's doing in. Noriega was the president of Panama who was,

you have to explain Colby's like, he's a baby. He was born in like the 90s. You done all your stuff, gotten out and started a new career before he was even born. I get it. Panama was run by, Noriega was in the military and there was like a military coup. He took over Panama. And then he starts dealing drugs.

Now, he's already working with the CIA, but he starts dealing drugs with these guys taking money to fly. So they bring drugs in. and then they transport it into the United States. So Barry Seale had a group of guys that were flying it, and he's doing it for the CIA. Yeah. And so that the CIA can get enough money to fund the contras,

which were fighting against the communists in Nicaragua. Yeah. Yeah. In South America. They're actually, he's actually bringing guns in to give them. And this is all being done by the CIA. Well, the military through the CIA. So, and then, of course, when it all goes bad, they actually have President Reagan who's saying, I didn't know anything about it.

Of course, I'm sure he did. And so then they have the guy that was really in charge of it all, Oli North, and I'm horrible with names. I just happen to know these. But because they were all testified in front of Congress. Ali North, who was running the whole thing through the CIA, he comes in, he gets in front of Congress. And they're expecting Ali North to say, because he's met with Reagan multiple times. And they're like, well, what did you talk about? He's like, yeah, I don't remember.

And then Reagan gets in there. And Reagan's like, you know, I'm 80-something years old. I cannot recall. Reagan said, I don't remember about 60 different ways. At this time, I do not recall what happened. You know, at this time, he just constantly, my memory is in front of Congress just, you know, and they were furious. You know, the Democrats were furious. They end up getting the guy, though.

They had the cartel down there. Oh, yeah. Listen, it's the biggest thing ever to this day. And then George Bush, because at this point now, they know. They know that the CIA and that the, that Noriega, we got photos of Noriega looking at, you know, pallets of cocaine being unloaded from this vehicle or being loaded and unloaded from on these. airplanes. So they say, that's it. We're going to, we're going to go down there and remove Noriega. And so they actually, the military, invades Panama, Panama, and they chase him for three or four days. Eventually he goes to a church and then they get him out of the church, right?

But it's funny because they, when they invade, the CIA is like he's here. We know exactly where he is. Well, they didn't know where he was. And it took him three or four days. And they probably killed a few hundred panamanians trying to get to him. Yeah, I created a big problem too. Yeah. With us actually invading, it created a problem. Yeah, yeah, that's an issue. That's huge.

Yeah, it was a big deal. Listen, there's actually tons of, there was a great documentary about six months about it. But yeah, and all of that, in a way, stems from, you know, some of those photographs and this, this whole thing falling apart and all that was tied in with Barry Zell. But what would have, yeah. But what a great, what a great documentary, or I'm sorry, great, the original ones. And I like the Tom Cruise one. If you don't know anything, you watch the Tom Cruise one.

You're like, oh, that's great. But it's like reading a book and then watching the movie, you're like, I hate it. Yeah. You have an expectation. But if you didn't read the book, you're like, the movie was amazing. Yeah. So. It was good, but it was glorified more than it was being a real thing.

Yeah, but also, you. have to try and condense what probably 10 or 20 hours of screen time into two hours. Sure. And they didn't have to do that with the Barry Seal one. I'm sorry, with the HBO version because it was like a multi-part series, I believe, because it was much longer. So they could go more into it. It was good. That's the only movie I could actually say I've ever seen back then that I could relate to because it was like, I mean, spot on. The guy, the pilot had to have been alive when they were making that movie or part of it, he had to been alive before they killed him because it was just too accurate for him not to have been hard.

You know, he might have died halfway. They might have killed him halfway through the movie or something. I don't know. But it was just so real that it is either the pilot or somebody really close to him to be able to make that movie as accurate as they did. I thought it was interesting that when they were, when he was flying it over the, and I don't know if it was the Everglades. I don't think it was the Everglades, but listen, so much of South Florida is swamp land in Everglades, right?

Wherever it was where he was, they were taken, they were just like, your guys are going to be here in boats or in whatever. You'll be here. You'll see I'll fly over. I'm going to start dropping the stuff. And that's just it. Actually, my wife knows a guy who would go out and they would drop stuff in the swamps, like in, you know, the Everglades in Okachobie, where they would fly over. They would be out there in airboats. and then they would just

and they'd follow the thing as it's dropping it, and they'd pick it up and pick it up and pick it up. Yeah, that's what we did too. Drop the bales of marijuana in the ocean and the boats would just go pick them up. And the first time I did it,

the guy told me I dropped them too far away. I'm like, okay, then you need me closer? Like, okay, I shouldn't, well, I hit you guys. Yeah. The next time I did it, I was close because when they hit the water, they don't just stay.

They skip across the water, right? Right. So it was done. And I was a little close. What do you want? First, it's too far. It's too close. I hit a boat.

No, then shut up. The best you're going to get. Exactly. Unless you want me to drop it in the boat, you sink, I can do that too. Didn't we interview a guy that found marijuana? One time it hit his... No, it was an article I read. Never mind.

I'm sorry. It was an article I read. I think it was called Coronado High, where the guy actually started off... I want to say he started off his whole marijuana smuggling business because he found just a bail of marijuana floating. I could believe that. And just found it and then sold it and realized how lucrative it was. And he was like, oh, I got to figure out how to start importing this shit, smuggling this shit in.

Well, in the beginning, before I started as a pilot, they would bring it through the inlet, right, on these speedboats. And it piled up. I mean, you could see it clear as day. It was at night. Right. And then we'd offload it into a van and take off in the van. Right. But, I mean, it was so easy back then.

these, I mean, you couldn't do that today. I mean, they have to hide it when they come. Right. Before, I mean, it was literally piled above the boat. I mean, if somebody's standing there at the inlet, I mean, they'd see it. Right. I mean, it's three o'clock in the morning, but still, you know, there's always somebody around. What was the guy Tim?

Tim, McBride. You ever heard Tim at Bride's story? It was Everlade City. He was down. He, well, I think he was from one of them square states. up north and he came down to Everglades City. He had a buddy who was telling him, you got to come down and come on the boat with me. And he got on the boat and he said, you know, they very quickly, I realized, so these fucking guys are meeting, like, they're meeting cartel members and shit in the middle of the ocean and loading it up.

And they'd load it up and go back and then they'd smuggle it because it's in the Everglades, right? There's close to the Everglades. And they would bring it straight up. And, I mean, this whole, he said the whole town was in on it. Like hundreds of people in this town. That's where all the money from the town came was from this. But he talks about getting it loaded off the boats and putting it into vans and RVs. Here, let me tell you this one thing I forgot.

I've never been really scared of somebody, you know, that you actually thought my life was totally at risk. Well, the one brother asked me to go down to Miami with him is, can't name of the restaurant, but it's right on the water. And we're sitting on like a bench, like a picnic bench, right? wait for these guys that were supposed to meet. I have no idea what's going on. He just wanted me to go with him. So we're sitting, I was saying,

you see these four guys come through all, I mean, dressed in these suits, probably God knows how much they were from Columbia. Three of them, probably 250, 270, pure solid muscle, and another guy smaller than rest of them. Obviously, he's the head guy. They come over, the guy sits down, and the other three stand right behind him,

and he's talked to my friend. They're like right across me each other. And I was kind of, you know, like this. I didn't want to look at him. I mean, he's Colombians. I was actually not comfortable. Now, when I used to fly down in Jamaica, I used to wear a hat. And it had, you know, Donald Duck, his head, face on my hat.

So everybody used to call me Donald. I never met this guy. I'd never flown into Columbia. The guy keeps looking at me, right? And I'm like, I'm getting nervous. What are you looking at? I want to look eye to eye because you can tell these people are dangerous. I mean, Colombians are,

they're worse a mafia or anybody else. So he goes, hey, he goes, don't worry, you can look at me, right? Like, okay. He goes, can I ask you a question? I go, yeah, sure. He goes, are you the one they called Donald? I said, oh, shit.

Okay, yeah, that's me. He goes, you know, you're famous? I go, I guess I do now. It goes, do you come work for me? I said, I work for him. You have to ask him. I didn't want to say no to the guy. I was scared for my life, but I'd just say no.

So he ended up to one night. He worked for us, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And that was it. Get up. He doesn't shake my friend's hand. He shakes my hand and then walks off. We leave. I told my friends, don't ever do that to me again.

I says, I'll kill you myself. I was so pissed because these guys were just like, you know, you just can feel it. Yeah. I mean, I've never been felt that way in my life. That's the only time in my life ever that I ever feel scared of an individual like that. I was going to say, it's funny, especially having been in prison. Like, you know the guys you can joke around with, you know, and you know the guys.

And you even get the feel for the guys you can joke around with, but that's it. Like, don't get, like, joke around, but do not push that envelope. Like this guys, these guys are killers, for sure. And it also reminds me, too, because I remember seeing a thing from Andrew Tate. This was, he was being interviewed or something. And he said one time he was in the, I said this the other day. You remember this? Maybe.

So Andrew Tate was, it was one of the stories that he said, you know, like, I'm a world champion kickboxer, this, that. You know, he's talking about like, I'm this, I'm that. And so I'm with my girl. It's three o'clock in the morning or something. And we've just been out dancing and we go to, we go to this place to get fish and chips, you know, in England. He said, we're in line and there's whatever. There's 15 people in line.

And he said this car pulls up. And these three guys get out, these massive guys, they get out, and they walk right in front of everybody and push the people out of the way. And then they order their food. The people run and get their food. And everybody's kind of like, you know, kind of a little bit irritated. And his, he goes, my girl looks at me. And she goes, aren't you going to, you're going to say something?

And he goes, shut up. And she's like, oh, Mr. Badass. You're not going to say anything. He's be quiet. And then so they get their food and they leave. And he said, and she was like, what's your problem? I thought you were a kickboxer and this and that. And he said, there are some people that you can look at and tell that they're willing to kill you and go to prison.

They don't give a shit. Exactly. He's like, and those three guys, I don't know if they've got guns. Even if they didn't, I don't know if they have knives. I know there's three massive guys. And he said, despite the fact that I'm a kickboxing champion or not, he said, it wouldn't matter if there was one guy. He said, you can sense. You don't fuck around with this guy.

He'll pull a gun. He'll do this. He's like, and I'm not going to get shot because they've inconvenienced me by three extra minutes. Yeah. And when he said that, I was like, I know exactly what he's talking about. There's some guys that you can, you can, they walk in, they sit. it, you're with your buddies, blah, blah, blah, they walk and they sit at the table and you think, fuck.

Like, you can feel this guy is a serial killer. Yeah, exactly. And they do it without thinking. They don't care. That's how I feel about Mike Hudson. I joke with Mike Hudson, we play, we just, blah, blah, blah. But the truth is, I also know he'd fucking kill you. Yeah.

You know, you can see it, you can hear it in his voice where he's like, wouldn't think, wouldn't think a thing about it. And he's a born-again Christian. So then after he killed you, he'd be like, oh, Jesus, please. I'm so sorry. I feel so bad. I feel horrible. But you saw what he did.

Oh, Jesus, please, please save me. Oh, please. Okay. He'd feel a little bit bad about it, but that'd be the end of it. I'd still be dead. Yeah. You went from, you told the guy that if you haven't needed a pilot, let me know. Then to like, the next thing was like, you're going on the first trip.

What was, was there any more information on, like, kind of how they, like, filled you in on what was going on as far as, like, how to do it? They didn't know. How was their first pilot they ever had? Oh, so it was like a test run. It was totally test run. This is part I forgot to tell you. It's not a big deal. But what we did when we got the first airplane,

we get, it's like four or five guys, big dudes, like 200 pounds. And then whatever we needed, we'd get like, you know, weights that you lift with, 45-pound weights to equal 1,200 pounds. We put it in a plane. And then at Lantana, you know, we knew how long the runway was. And we knew where I'd have to take off. in order to be able to make it okay on the other one in Jamaica because it was 3,500 feet long. So we'd all pile in the airplane and I'd fly and take off to see if the plane was actually capable of carrying 1,200 pounds and be able to take off within 3,500 feet.

So prior to this, were they just doing it on boats? Yeah, and there's other people that they knew that had pilot and that was dropping the product to their boats. So once they got me, they became their own organization. Yeah. And how do they like officially ask you? Or like kind of let you in like, hey, like this is what we're trying to do. Well, I actually was, I said that way, in the beginning, I was helping offload boats. Like it'd come in and do that.

And just one day they'd say, hey, you said you wanted to fly. Are you ready? That's it. That was it. It was really trial and error to the max. Yeah. Then the last question I had was like, could you break down? whole process from from leaving the states to going to Jamaica,

pretty much break down a whole trip from A to the end. Sure. Well, I mean, not every trip was exactly the same. Yeah. But what it was besides, like the ones I said, where I actually flew the product into the states, the ones we originally did, what it is is we would fly out of Lantana Airport, which is on the East Coast.

And we'd fly to Marsh Harbor, which is one of the islands. and Bahamas, which we had people paid off, and then we'd stay there overnight because we didn't want to leave straight from the states, straight to Jamaica in case being followed. You know, somebody knows that what we're doing, you know what I mean? So we'd go and stay in the Bahamas first,

and then the next day we'd leave from there and go to Jamaica. And then we'd come back from Jamaica drop and then go land back at that island, Marsh Harbor, get fuel, and then, the next day, come home with a actual flight plan. Because you're supposed to, when you fly to Bahamas, you're supposed to make a flight plan. Whether it's VFR, IFR, VFR standing for visual flight rules, IFR standing for instrument flight rules.

So, you know, if it's bad weather, you can't fly visually because you have to be able to see. So you're supposed to file a flight plan with FAA to fly over the Bahamas. We never did that. We would file a flight plan to fly from the states to Marsh Harbor, but everything else we did, we didn't have a flight plan. Then when we were done, and the next day, flight from Marsh Harbor back home, we'd have a flight plan for that.

That way, you know, they wouldn't be looking at us because we're legally flying, so there's no reason for them to look at us when we're coming back. Like, if we just flew rogue into the states, more unlikely they got to pick it up and see where we go. Try and track you down

and figure out what was going on. Correct. Plus we have no seats in the airplane, so it's like, well, we definitely have bring people over there. And that's what we'd do. We'd take the seats out in the Bahama Island that we had people paid off and we'd put the seats in the customs office.

Then we'd go do our job, come back, put the seats back in. So when we'd fly into the States, we look like we're legit. Of course, we had a clean airplane out every time. We had like a mini vacuum cleaner. Then we'd just chuck it. I'm born in New Bedford, Massachusetts. I grew up with my mom, my dad, my brother. I moved from there when I was two, moved to Arizona,

and then moved to Florida, I've been here my whole life. What did your parents do, sorry? Yeah, my dad was a vice president of a major company, electronics company, and my mom was a professional artist well-known around the world. Okay. What was her name? Her name's named Sylvie Gans, but her art name is Tyke. Okay.

Okay. All right. And you moved to Florida and you, so you went to school here, whole thing? I went to school here, but I went to college up in Ohio, Kent State University for aeronautical engineering. How were you in school? Like, did you get in trouble, good grades? I didn't do too good in high school. I had to go to a junior college at times where it was called. In order to get my grades up to go to college. And that's when I started straightened out once. I got into junior college. Okay. That sounds like me.

I mean, I went to Hillsborough County Community College. Right. You were a junior county community college. Same thing. Yeah, same thing. And then you get your AA and then you can go pretty much anywhere. Correct. Correct.

Okay. So what happened? So you got a regular job as a CPA and you just retired recently and we're done. Is that what? Oh, yeah. Is that what happened? So it is. Thank you for coming by.

Yeah, no problem. See you later. Now, actually, after college, I worked for the same college as a professor and a flight instructor. Okay. Because I had to build my time up in order to become a pilot. So you went to college? So you wanted to be a pilot? Yes.

For how long? Forever? At the time, yeah, forever. Okay. Then, you know, I'm a family man. I like to be home. I like living in a suitcase. So that had a little bit deterrent as far as I wanted to do.

But as far as when I started, from Kent State. And like anything else, you know, it's who you know, not what you know. Right. And a friend of mine was working for Allegheny Airlines, which is branch off of U.S. Air. And he ended up getting me a job with them. And that's when I started flying as a co-pilot for a small airline.

It's a turboprop. Okay. Beach 99. It's a 17 passenger. And I did that for a few years. Where was that flying out of? Viro Beach, Florida. Okay.

It's almost directly across from us here. Yeah. And we'd fly from there to Orlando to Ocala to Orlando, more or less, bringing people from the smaller two airports into Orlando for them to take their major flight out. And did that for a while. And there's a contract we signed with a company that if a job opening opens up, that they have to hire within the company. and if nobody wants it, then they can hire from outside to company. Well, in Vero Beach, what happened? Because I think what you're leading with this question is that in Vero Beach,

we had two Coppots and two captains. Well, the two captains were leaving at the same time. So, of course, both Coppots, first officers, myself and Ken was the other one, both wanted the jobs. So I was senior to Ken. I went up first. I was taking my test to become a captain, a flight test. which I have, I don't know, maybe 2,000 hours of flight instruction time.

I've had every flight instructor rating that you can possibly have, whether it's teaching single-engine, multi-engine, instruments, instructors, you name it, I could teach in any airplane. So I'm up there, and what I find out at the time I'm up there taking these tests, that they're hired some old guy that says he's got to retire with a company and he's got to become captain. I'm like, well, that's going to be a problem because, You can't do that when somebody within a company is, you know, going for a job.

Anyway, so I get in pickle. It's ILS, instrument landing system approach. It's one of the most sophisticated approaches you can do and, you know, with instruments. And just to give you an idea, it's like you look in a round circle and you've got a T. And the T is right in the middle of a circle, right? So that means you're right online for landing, whether it's the altitude or side by side. it's right crossed perfectly, that means you're perfect. It's a perfect approach all the way down.

So that's what I did. Perfect test. So I get on the ground. And now you also have an approach plate, which gives you information about that approach, altitudes, and whatnot. But as a pilot, you should already know that. It should be merely a reference. It doesn't mean you have to look at.

It means if you forget something, it's there for you to reference. It's all it is. So we get down on the ground and there, flight, instructor says, boy, you got me between a hard spot and a rock. Like, what do you mean? He goes, well, you never looked at the approach plate. I go, so? He goes, well, you memorized it. I go, yeah. He goes, you're not supposed to do that. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you're supposed to look to approach plate? I go, are you telling me that you think an approach plate is more than just a reference? He goes, no. I go, well, that's what you just said. Right. I said, that's all it is. It's

really a reference. I didn't need to look at it because, yeah, I memorize it and I know it. And a pilot should know that. As a captain, you should know it. So anyway, make a long story short, we go into the office of the president of the company. He sits me down with the instructor. And he says that, sorry, but we've got to send you back as a first officer. I'm like, for what? He says, well, you didn't pass the test. I go, what didn't I pass?

Well, he said you didn't pass the iOS approach. I go, why? And he said, because you didn't look at the approach player. I said, you're going to say that and stick with that. It's okay. He says, are you okay going back and flying with the other first officer that's going to be a captain? You know, meaning the guy, it's lower than me. I have a thousand hours in this airplane.

Right. This other guy has 10 hours in the airplane. I said, well, do I have a choice? He goes, not really. I go, I guess not. I go, okay, that's the way it's going to be. That's fine. I understand what's going on here.

At the time, I didn't. So I walked out, all these other pilots that are based up there in Pennsylvania, Chautauqua. They're all looking at, and say, boy, you got screwed. At that point in time, like, okay, what had happened, the other first officer had Laura call the main office and say, if he doesn't get hired the chance to become captain, then we're going to sue you for hired somebody outside the company.

So the way for them to get out of that was to fail me. Right. So that leads into me going into a different action. What? Okay. That's why I explained that. I had a really great family. My dad's goal was to put my brother and I through college, and he did.

Right. So, I mean, that no means I live in poverty at all, ever. Yeah, it wasn't out of desperation. Not at all. Not at all. Money, it was more like this is a, I want to say, this is your justification for branching off in a different direction. Correct.

So it's more for spite. And it's that, you know, they say, you know, politics isn't everything. Yeah, it really is. I don't care if it's sports or business, whatever the case may be. But, yeah, so I went off in a different direction. And I worked for them for a little bit longer. I flew with the old guy, which was, he almost killed us twice. I had to actually take over the airplane and turn around

because he didn't have the knowledge to turn around when it's too bad because we couldn't fly overstorms and we couldn't fly under them. We had to fly through them. So you know how Florida's got a line of thunderstorms. It's really bad. And he tried to do that couple times and that was it. I mean, passengers were like holding on the ceiling because we're dropping 2,000 feet as fast as you can blink your eye.

So I had it. So I can't do this no more. I appreciate you guys watching. a favor if you like the video hit the subscribe button hit the bell please consider joining my patreon leave me a comment and please share the video because that really really helps like the video and i appreciate you guys watching see you yeah