Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Con Man Convicted on $39 Million Mortgage Fraud | Matt Cox True Crime Podcast

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Con Man Convicted on $39 Million Mortgage Fraud | Matt Cox True Crime Podcast

So I come into Coleman and somebody goes, what are you here for? And I said, frog. And the guy goes, how much? I said, $39 million. Hey, this is Matt Cox. And we're going to do a podcast, a true crime podcast on Juan Sanchez. And Juan has, like, I'm not impressed a lot. As a matter of fact, my girlfriend mentioned the other day.

I'm saying what she actually said to me, she said, she goes, boy, you really like this guy. he's got an amazing story and she goes she said i think you got a little man crush on him i said if i was a woman i said i would this guy is so charismatic i said i would have his children i mean his story and he's he's super charismatic and i know you're like you're like hate hearing that but i think it's the accent that gets to him it's a that i think that's what that's what it is well thank god i said girlfriend oh yeah my girlfriend because otherwise be like i knew it anyway so great story and uh it's it's actually um it's a uh he's got a fraud story and so let's get let's get right into it okay so Juan where were you born I was born in

Spain as a matter of fact but I'm not a Spanish citizen I was born there by mistake and I was raised in Venezuela until I was about 16 that I came to the United States so you're a Venezuelan citizen I'm a Venezuelan citizen yeah I became a permanent resident here so I was a resident for many many years until I got convicted of my crime. Right. So you came in the United States at 16, went to school? Went to high school. Okay.

From high school, I did some college. Right. And, but it was difficult to do college and party. Right. So I ended up choosing, making the wise choice and party my way through, you know, college. And then I became involving the world of finances and real estate. Okay. At a very young age.

Right. And what, so were your real estate agent or? So there is the background story behind my behavior pattern, I guess. I found an industry that taught me how to use my talents. And I figure timeshare would be the right place to be. You know, it's a high pressure sales pitch. People come there for two tickets to Disney. 90 minutes later, they're in debt for $40,000.

Right. So if I wanted to sharpen my persuasion skills, that was a place to be. So I worked for timeshare for many years. and I developed training programs I trained the salespeople I became a very good speaker and my next step was I decided to open real estate schools

throughout the state of Florida but you weren't doing real estate no I was out of time sure but it was still sales base but it was still sales base so I figured being that I'm bilingual the Spanish market has always been a subscine market

it's an ignored market so it was a real estate was beginning to boom. We're talking about 2019, 2009, 2000, before the Twin Towers. And I opened the first real estate school in Spanish in the state of Florida. I actually

ended up opening seven of them. And where Orlando? Orlando, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville. I mean, there were Hispanic people I was there teaching. And I licensed all these people. But I realized that these people wanted to learn how to sell. And I said, man.

I'm your guy. I'll teach you how to sell it. Time share style. Right. We're not going to go showing houses. What you're going to be doing is you're going to be closing these people on the sale. And I developed my own team of salespeople, hundreds of salespeople. So I became a broker and the rest is history.

I had hundreds of people selling for me. All right, that's it. That's the podcast. We're done. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it would you be great if that was the end of the story? So I still don't understand why. at this time. You know, I was just a guy teaching people how to sell. And I became very good,

very good, very sought after. I mean, developers were coming to me and giving me their whole projects and out of the sudden the market crashed. And we began to crash. We're talking about now 2006, 2005. You know, loans were getting a little difficult. People were getting greedy, kind of where we're at right now. And the cashback frenzy started. And there were properties that were not being sold whole complexes, hundreds of apartments. So the developers will come to me and say, would you mind partnering up with us? You'll be the broker. You develop the sales strategy and sell us out. And I was, of course, I was a developer without having to build anything. Right. And I did condo conversions. Okay. And I will go in and

just liquidate them. I will bring busloads of people. They will come down. They will buy each three, four apartments, and then they will walk away. But I never had contact with the salespeople. What made my operation really cool was that I had all these salespeople that were trained to do this. Wait, they would buy the properties and walk away. You walk away from the loan, stop making the payments. Well, what happened is these people, because obviously in order to compete, we had to do the cashback deal that everybody was doing. That is happening right now. Right. So to convince a borrower to buy a property that they are not really interested in, they don't really want. So you say, hey, look, if you buy the property, you come, you sign the documents, you give us the W-2's pay steps, if you qualify for the loan, you get it, will give you $30,000 or $20,000 and you can leave. And listen, you could use that money and with the hopes that the property keeps going up, which is kind of where we rent them out.

Do they rent them out? They rent them out. Okay. They were renting them out. Okay. But what happened is the market. The market collapsed. Nobody, their loans stopped happening. You know, I remember we, at one point, we had 60 properties. Stop happening. 60 properties waiting to close in the same complex. Right. And the title company called us and said, listen, the bank said, no.

You're not closing any of them. And I said, oh my God, this is not happening. Right. And it began to happen everywhere, everywhere. And properties started to go down in value. If you kind of move inventory, inventory starts dropping. Right. And we had clients that had bought apartments at $250,000.

Six months later, that apartment was worth $190,000. $190,000. And they figured, you know, I'm not going to pay for this apartment anymore. Plus, I got $40,000 in the closing table anyways. Right. The whole economy is crashing. I got $40,000. Why would I spend it on you?

And I have this nice boat that I bought with a $40,000 that I was supposed to use to pay the mortgage. And that's when, you know, they started looking at me. right because they started looking that there was a pattern of behavior here this is the FBI or at that point it was they opened a task force and it was called technically it was the IRS at that point but they they kind of branch out and it's like the financial housing administration department they made a they made it very very long so it was very hard to remember right and they approached me in 2007 they approached me in 2007 and they said listen we want you to talk about these loans and at that time I had retained console and my console

said listen if you don't know anything you don't know anything and I said I don't know anything where's the money coming from for all this is this I mean at some point this is money laundering well at that was it were at the not yet because they're they're buying and selling a product okay so right now it's just bank to consumer bank to developer Correct. However, some of these, a couple of these clients that came in were foreigners, from Venezuela specifically. Right. And these clients saw their investments go down in flames. Right. So they reached out to me and they said, listen, buddy, we invested with you and we lost our money. We're basically going to either get our money back from you or we're going to kill you and your family. And we're going to send you some. These aren't normal borrowers, by the way, because in the United States, like, I've had borrowers that have bought three or four properties, and then they, you know, they lost, they went into foreclosure, people, they couldn't rent them out or whatever. And not once, not once did anybody, I've never actually had my life threaten, not once.

Well, they were angry buyers. They were angry buyers. They were angry buyers. So they sent me a video at one point, which was of an image in a Venezuelan prison. Listen, who are these buyers? Well, these buyers were people that work for the Venezuelan government. Okay, so these were high up. And the Venezuelan government is very much like the United States government, like there's very little corruption and there's... Oh, very organized. Very organized. These aren't like almost like legal thugs.

And we're talking about not that high level yet. These are like prosecutors and judges and people in the Venezuela judicial system. Right. And it's basically, but there's still a lot of corruption. Oh, it's horrible. It's basically Venezuela, if you're, if you work for the Venezuelan government, it's basically like a mob run. It's like, it's like Russia. It's like these guys are getting to the top because they have the power.

Right. The brutes have the power. Right. So, so this happens and I get these threats and I got a video which I spoke with you a while ago about it. It was a, it was a, they decided to make an example out of somebody. Right. So they, they hired some inmates within the prison and they told them they had to. take turns raping this guy

and dismember him and make sure they put it on video though so they send me the video saying this is what's going to happen to you if you don't fix this problem and obviously that was a good persuasion technique because I said well how can we fix this problem right but I mean

look like the video literally they video them raping the guy and the guy they're screaming your name or something don't they say your name well the guy there's somebody saying this is what's going to happen to you if you don't behave okay so kind of like this pod it was a podcast on its own but uh you know it was just a little little lower budget yeah it was a little lower budget and uh perhaps not a youtube kind of channel

yeah yeah so then they sent to the video you read so what did you think when you watch the video well as i reach out i said listen obviously i don't want to get raped and dismembered yeah is there anything we can do to avoid this situation you know and they said yeah this is what we need you to do we need you to help us how much money had they lost at that point. A few hundred thousand. Right. Okay. A few hundred thousand. And they said, we need you to help us. We need you to help us. And we're going to tell you some things that you're going to have to do. So this is money that they sent you money. This is the money they borrowed from the bank. This is their money. Okay. This is their money. Money coming from Venezuela. Banks are not closing. So,

so these are cash deals. These are deals that are actually closing in an economy that nothing is closing. Right. So for us, it was kind of like breathing room, you know. So of course, they start extorting me you know this is what you have to do for us or otherwise we're going to kill you this is what you have to do so i get weaved into this financial movement of and some of those cases are still open so there's a lot of details that are i have to live out in the story but uh but there's there's a lot of movement of money a lot of movement of money and then as as uh as i get indicted i don't know that this is going on so obviously i get indicted on my case of my crime which is mortgage fraud right and then a year later I find out that there is this

explosion of money laundering coming from Venezuela and my name my name is being bounced around and the government basically one day goes and visit me some three-letter agencies that are well wait you've been have you been arrested you said you were I was arrested on my case okay had that happen well my indictment is my my my my my process was a little different. You know, on the sense that they, they reached out to me in 2007. Bad counsel, bad information. I decided to let them do their job instead of me. Instead of going in and cooperating and saying, look, this is what happened. Let me work with you. Correct. Let me listen. Mitigate the damage that's going to happen. Correct. So everybody else chose

that except me. I was the only guy that said no. Because my attorney told me, we got these guys. We got them where we want them. Okay. It's like a guy punching you and your coach telling you, man, your head can handle this thing. Don't worry about it. Keep hitting him with the head. So four and a half years later, I'm now in New York City, moved from Orlando. I have closed all my real estate offices. I'm now working selling art, okay, for a photographer. I didn't know that.

Yeah, all right. And I'm Peter Leek. And I'm making all this money selling art, you know, and I'm a New Yorker. I'm writing my subway. and I'm dating this girl at that time, of course. She doesn't know. And you'll appreciate this. Most people that you start dating what you're being investigated by the facts

is not something you want to disclose on the first day. Not the first day. You know, like, listen, don't make long-term plans with me because I may end up going to prison. Right. Okay, let's leave on the now. So I have an argument with her on Sunday. And on Monday, I say, listen, come to the apartment.

I think we, you know, there is no need to be upset. She walks into the apartment I order Chinese food She's sitting on the couch I get a knock on the door You know Chinese delivery guy comes in Give him the money

He gives me the food He walks away And I hear this bang You know And my first thought was Man I didn't tip the Chinese guy Right But this guy is like super angry

Right You know So I'm looking at the bill And I tell my girlfriend at the time I said Listen I'm going to give this Chinese guy A peace of my mind

I opened the door and I feel two hands reaching out and pulling me out of the apartment. And there is NYPD and of course, you know, you know who it is. And if anybody's watching this, this is a whole production, you know. I have cops going up the stairs and cops going down the stairs and NYPD is looking at a picture of me and looking at me. You're a nonviolent, I'm a nonviolent white collar criminal and you've got 30 guys here with guns out. that your tax money is going to the good right place. And they're like Juan Sanchez, yeah. You have an extradition order to Florida.

You're under arrest. And then the agent that I had interview years ago came out from behind the line of cops. And he said, you thought I wasn't going to get you, right? And I looked at him and I said, no, I knew you would. I knew sooner or later. You're good. Yeah.

You're good. Yay, buddy. So I ended up on my journey. I went to Brooklyn Detention Center which I experienced my first stabbing experience which was three days into it a rapper stabs another guy in the middle of the unit

and I'm sitting there and you know as this guy's stabbing the other guy my cellmate is telling me hey hey you gotta get some ice you gotta get some ice and I'm thinking they're like ice for the guy right no no we're gonna get locked in man

you need some ice so you can drink some cold drinks and I'm thinking these guys are insane yeah they're preparing for the lockdown already yeah and other guy saying everybody to the shower everybody to the shower we got a shower before they lock us down and there's this guy bleeding on the floor and i'm like man this is not going to be pretty yeah i told you the guy i had a guy die in front of my cell one time i literally stepped over him to go heat up my coffee because i knew they were going to lock us down like didn't even by that point it wasn't even like these people are so interchangeable and they're just they're like furniture listen i've seen people taking shoes

off people that are down because hey these are my shoes so I don't want this guy to go away on the hospital with my shoes, you know, I need to play fault. So it's just, you're desensitized. You just, you know, numbed. Right. So I started in Brooklyn, and they work me all the way down to Miami.

Right. In which I proceeded to plea guilty to, I think, three counts of bank fraud and wire fraud. Conspiracy. Bank fraud, money laundering. Yeah, I know those. I signed an 18-year plea, and I got sentenced to 15 years.

And my attorney, my attorney, listen. If anybody sees this, I'm going to put the name out there because this is, this is insane, okay? Francisco Lopez was this guy's name. And he spoke Spanish. And my family hired him because he spoke Spanish. And I kept telling my family, I speak English. Why do you need a guy that speak Spanish? And they kept telling me where so we can communicate with him.

And I'm like, well, it's not about you. Shouldn't he want to talk to the judge and be able, you know? so I remember the first time he went in front of the judge and he's like well, George Honor I said oh my God I'm in trouble bro they hired Ricky Ricardo to defend me

so I play 18 years I play out to 18 years they sentenced me 15 years 180 months and I get shipped to a Coleman Coleman Low wait wait wait wait wait wait wait we're we're we're skating over

some stuff like like well i mean what would you what would you want to know about my process i mean bro i mean while you're in why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you no matter the size whether you're taking over your parents basement or moving to campus ikea has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget after all you're in your small space era it's time to own it. Shop now at Ikea.ca. The guy that comes into the airport, the Venezuela. Oh, that's later. Oh, it's later. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't know. I was like, what are you doing?

No, no, no. I didn't know the, I don't know the whole timeline. So go ahead. Sorry, sorry. I'm down to 15 years. Okay. I'm down to 15 years. That's right. You came to Coleman and then you go and then they brought me back. Okay. Yeah. When I came to Coleman, I had 15 years on me and that's when I made. you. Right. And Coleman is a little different because they, you know, they don't only care about your race, but you're so you're segmented by crimes. So I come into Coleman and somebody goes, what are you here for? And I said, fraud. And the guy goes, how much? I said $39 million. And he goes, how much time did you get? Like, by the way, you know, you say $39 million. Do you understand that how minor you made it sound prior to that? Like you said, some guys, you just said $100,000.

When I said the dollar amount, you said $100,000. How did they get to $39 million? Because what they did is they use all the money that was in a specific development, all the money that was made on that development. So that money had been borrowed or given by... Given or borrowed by different people. A lot of them in Venezuelans. And some American investors and some banks.

But what they consider was the loss of that property specifically was $39 million. All the properties go into foreclosure. Did they add the total or did they take away? Oh, no. It was whatever was lent. Yeah, whatever was lent. $39 million. Even though after it was sold, $10 million, it meant $20 million may have been sold off.

And it's really only a loss of $19 million. They hit you for the whole. And at that time, my attorney was like this and it doesn't matter. You don't want to fight that. You know, I'm like, okay. Yeah, you do. Of course you do because I didn't understand you get sentenced based on that. Yeah.

Okay. So I got $39 million and they go. how much time you got? I said 15 years. So you always have the guy in prison that wants to make sure you didn't cooperate. Yeah, yeah. He's at his, he's like, okay, $30 million, that's level two, and you're first time offender. Okay, you're about the right range. Yeah, you're good. You're going to sit with those guys. You see that guy over there? I'm like, yeah, he's a fraudster. Talk to him. Well, his name is Matt Cox. And I said, all right. So that's when I met you. And I said, listen, they talk,

you know, they said to talk to you. I guess you're here for fraud. And we started talking and you're like, dude, you know what you're talking about because fraud is a, it's an industry contrary to what most people may believe. And we have our own lingo on our own terms. And you get the guys that go in there and they say they're there for fraud and they're not there for fraud. And they're not for fraud. Correct. And so they very quickly, you talk to me for for three minutes about fraud or real estate or anything in my industry. Like I'm very quickly going to be like, okay, this guy doesn't know it. This guy is full of it. He's full of it. I mean, like his girlfriend says, it's like when you meet that one person and they can finish your sentences, that was kind of like what happened with us because we'll be saying like, well, you know, and you go to the courthouse and you file and I'll say like, a satisfaction mortgage.

And might be like, exactly. So we knew exactly what was going on. And it was really cool because I said, okay, there's obviously people here that know about my crime and know about the industry and I feel comfortable, you know. Right. So I'm doing some time, and then I get called back into Miami. Right. Where are my cases from? Because there's a new development now. There is some people that are interested on talking to me about these Venezuelan characters that at one point or another invested with the salespeople that I had under me. Wait a minute. You miss the part about going back to Venezuela. Oh, well, but that's going to, that's going to come in in the, because this is when I started talking to them and they know all this stuff. Okay, so you're going to mention it.

Okay. You got to talk about that. Because I go, you know, I'm talking to these new agencies that come and talk to me and they say, listen, we want to talk to you about certain people that you have dealt with in Venezuela. And at that point, I retained a new attorney. Okay. Well, how did you pay for the new attorney? So, so, this is brilliant. This is amazing. This is amazing. I'm in Miami and I'm, I got 15 years and I have this new development. I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to do like 180 years. And I tell somebody, listen, I need help. And he goes, oh, talk to my attorney. Listen, I used to be a Medicare fraudster. Look at me. I got six years. My attorney is great. I said, dude, I need your attorney. So what's the name? He goes, his name is Paul Petruzi. Perfect. So I reached out to Paul Petruzzi.

And he comes down and he tells me, well, talk to me about Venezuela. So I'm talking to him and he goes, and you know all these people? And I said, yeah. And he goes like, no, no, no, no. I said, I have their emails that they sent to me saved on my computer. He goes, that's phenomenal. He said, listen, you have a great opportunity here. And you're either going to get indicted on that case or you have to be able to play your cards right because they need you.

I said, well, how much is it going to cost me for you to represent me? He's like, well, it's going to cost you $45,000. I said, well, we have a situation. I said, I don't have any money. I already paid an attorney that screwed me. The Feds took everything I had. I mean, but when I get out, I'm amazing. I'm an amazing salesperson.

I can pack your office. He goes, well, that sounds great. How about we talk about it in 15 years when you get out? And I'm like, listen, no, whoa, listen, man, give me a chance. They said, well, I'll come back in a couple days. I go up to my unit. and I talked to the guy. I said, listen, what do I do? He goes, pray. You need to go to your cell and you need to pray. And I said, okay. And then God is going to give me 45 grand? He goes,

maybe, maybe it's happened before. I said, all right, I'm gay. So I go to my cell and I pray. Man, and the next day I go, I got it. I got it. So I call a friend of mine and I said, listen, this is what I need you to do. I need you to send me the list of all my friends in Facebook. I'm going to weed some out. We're going to leave some in there. And I'm going to send an email blast to everybody on Facebook. She goes, okay, okay. So I write that email, which I read a couple days ago for the first time. And it was February of 2013. And I say, dear friends and family, you haven't heard from me in a year. And it's not that I've been, you know, ghosting you. that I got indicted and I got sentenced to 15 years. This is my case number. If you want to

research it. And during that year, I've lost everything I had. I lost friends. I lost family. I lost money. But I'm holding on to the one thing that I'm giving up today, which is my dignity and my pride. I need to hire an attorney. He's going to charge me $45,000. And I need your help. If you can help me financially, that's fine. If you can't, your prayers are well received. thank you for your help love you know your friend whatever well dude that thing went bonkers

I mean I was reading the comments a day ago and people were doing garage sales people were doing bake sales I mean my attorney will go visit me and go listen can you tell your friends to stop sending me $20 checks I'm not the Catholic church

tell them to put money together and send it to me in a lump sum he had to open a PayPal account So people could send him $2 here, $5 there, $10 here, $15 there, and they pay my attorney's fees. So it was unbelievable, unbelievable. When Paul called me and told me, listen, your bill is paid. Don't worry about it. Nice. So that's amazing.

That's the power of social media. Yeah. You know? That's the power of, you know, to be honest, I mean, you know, like I don't typically flatter people, but that that's just the power of you and your friendship and what you mean. to people and how much they like you because I tell you right now and people like me I ain't raising 45,000 dollars nobody's giving me 40,000 yeah I guess that's what you realize yeah like somebody told me other day man you're not you guys are not bad people you

are good people that did something wrong right now and our nature has I mean at the end of the day I know you from prison and you know me from prison and we've helped each other we helped a lot of people without having to help them you know because we're needing to help them right because we just what you do that's your nature you know So I pay my attorney and Paul is happy and he takes me and he represents me and he's like, well, we need to talk. Tell me about these guys. So I said, well, I know this guy and he sent me this email about this person and he goes, do you know who these guys are? And I said, well, I think I know, but he goes, listen, man, the money that these people are using to buy this stuff goes pretty high up in the government.

I mean, you have the key to unleash a huge investigation. But if you do this, they're going to kill you. Right. I mean, you understand that you're not going back to Venezuela unless you want to die. And I said, all right, that's fine. Let's do this. You know what I mean? So I end up talking about different things.

And one of the stories that called his attention the most is, at one point they called me over. And they're like, listen, you need to come to Venezuela and you need to face us. You need to tell us where the money is at. And I'm like, dude, the money's gone. No, no, no. And this happened to a lot of people. When people lose money, they think you have the money. When people make money, they don't want you to have the money.

So if things are bad, you better have some of my money. But if things are good, I don't want you to keep a dime of my money. So of course, I think I have the money and they tell me, and I know they're going to kill my family and they're going to kill everybody. So I have to go there and I got to face them. So I show up and I'm facing them and they're like, listen, you need to come up with the money. And I'm like, well, you got to let me go back to the States.

So you fly to Venezuela. At that time, I'm dating somebody else. Right. And I'm telling her, listen, I'm going to go to Venezuela. And if I don't, first of all, if I don't call you in 24 hours, they kill me. Now, if I call you in 24 hours, then you know I'm alive. But you need to be like on top of the game because I may have to call you and tell you I'm getting out right now. Okay, okay, okay.

So I land. This is just some chick you just met. or you've been dating for her? I've been dating her, but everybody that has taken a chance of... This is a big commitment for an American chick that you've been dating for a month. So how long have you been dating her? Well, I've known her for a while, but ever since she was one of my salespeople, so she knows this whole investigation process and she knew the disaster.

And because I was married for a long, long, long time. And everybody that I dated kind of knew that I came with a lot of baggage. Right. But you know that theory about everybody likes a bad boy? I think everybody likes that story. Everybody likes to be with somebody that is complicated. It's codependency, basically. I'm going to fix him.

I'm going to turn him into a good guy. Yeah. You know? That way I can say I save his life. So I go to Venezuela and I meet with these guys and they're like, listen, we're going to lock you in a hotel room. And you're going to stay there until you get us the money. And I'm like, dude, I have to go back to the United States to get the money. They're like, no, no, no.

You have to get us the money right now. I'm like, okay, let's do this. So that night, they hired some prostitutes and they bring some prostitutes to the hotel room and they're like, listen, we have some prostitutes and we're going to be having sex in the room next door but we're keeping an eye on you and I'm like, listen, that's fine, no problem.

So they got this round cheekhookers and they're like there and smoking and drinking and it's just, it looks, it was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Who are the people that are holding you? This is Venezuelan military? Venezuela security people. Okay. You know, private, private citizens.

But the people that are telling, you that you have to give them back the money are people that work for the government. Oh, absolutely. These are people that are high up in the government. Which I later find out that these are people who's the source of the money is Colombian drug money. Right. And they're telling them, where is my money? Yeah. And they're telling me, listen, where is our money? Right. Because this guy wants his money. Yeah. These guys will kill us and we'll kill you. If you don't come up with the money, the problem is you've already, the money's already gone to the developers. Developers have already spent the money on their bills. It's over. It's gone. And whatever was

an escrow they took. So listen, is it. gone. Your money is gone. But you always have this thing like, don't worry about it. I'll make up the money and I'll pay it back. I'll worry about it. Of course. So I'm there and there's guys to get drunk and I'm like, man, I still have my passport in my hand. So I call this girl and I'm like, listen, I'm going to try to get out of here. You need to get me on the first flight that leaves the United States, that leaves Venezuela

to anywhere in the United States. I don't care where it lands, anywhere. So she's researching and she goes, dude, there is one, but it's $1,500. I said, I don't care. I'm on that flight. And I'm going to call you when I'm on the plane. If I don't call you, By the time the plane takes off, they found out I left, and I'm dead. And she's like, oh my God, listen, I can't deal with this stuff. I'm like, listen, we can't break up when I get there.

That's fine. But just get me there, okay? All right, all right. So she buys a ticket. She's like, we've got the reservation. Man, these guys are wasted. I sneak out of the hotel room. I call a cab, and I'm sitting in the lobby going, oh, my God, oh, my God, I'm

the cab comes in. I'm like, I got to go to the airport right now, American Airlines, right now. He goes, do you have any luggage? I don't have anything. Let's go. I need to get on a plane. I get on a plane. I call her. I come back. Now, the amazing, I'm going to go a couple steps ahead. When I go to Coleman

that I meet you, I actually meet the Colombian guy who gave the guys the money, who gave the instructions to get their money any way they could. So basically, he was the guy that got the kidnapping set up. So I used to tell people, and I used to tell you all the time, listen, that's my kidnapper over there. I'm going to go say hi to him. So I will go say hi to him and we'll talk and I'll say like listen man you know you you know I was kidnapped because of you right and he's like well I feel bad about that I never really met you so I didn't know who you were I'm like that doesn't change the fact that I was kidnapped because of you yeah but you know if I knew then if I knew you then maybe we would have come to terms I'm like maybe not so on that side note

I go back to Miami you know and I'm telling my attorney that story about you know who I got kidnap and and he's like, oh, this is fantastic. He said, this is phenomenal. I mean, this is exactly what we need, what they've been looking for. So I end up talking to the federal authorities about that case. And this is all public records, obviously. Yeah. And this is the FBI or?

This is FBI and the EA and NSA and IRS. And I remember the first time we met, I walked into the room. And of course, there's all these people. and one of these guys goes, my name is whatever, whatever, FBI, and somebody says, my name is this, and IRS, and the other guy says, my name is this, you know, D-E-A, and I said, well, my name is Juan Sanchez, F-B-O-P, and they all started laughing, and they're like, oh, my God, this guy is great, this is a guy we need, it's hilarious. So we sat there, and I told them the story and everything that is going on, and they're taking notes,

and they go, listen, you have a very odd memory. You seem to remember a lot of details, and that's not common. I said, well, check them out. So they go check them out, they come back, they said, man, you hit it right on the head. That's exactly what we're looking for, and let's move forward with this. So they decided to lead me sitting there in Miami for a couple months. Then they sent me back to Coleman, and I'm sitting there, and nothing is happening, nothing is happening, nothing is happening. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is, you know, I remember I called my attorney, and I said, I felt like I just got invited to the prom.

I had sex with my date and never called me again. I just got screwed. And he's like, listen, they're working on it. They're working on it. It takes time. They bring me back down to Miami. And I'm sitting there, and out of the sudden, I'm watching the TV. And no, I'm lying to you.

I'm sitting in Miami, and at a sudden, they take me downstairs. And when they take me downstairs, I'm handcuffed, and I'm standing there. And there is a guard calling out names. And the guard is like Gonzales, Martinez, Rodriguez, who, and it's one of the guys that kidnapped me. And I'm sitting there going like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. So I'm facing the wall and I'm doing like this little happy dance handcuff. And the guy's like, hey, dude, you got to go pee?

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I see the guy on the corner of my eye and I'm like, oh my God, they busted this guy. So I go up to the unit, I call my attorney and I go, man, do you have news for me? And he goes, no, do you have news for me? And I said, yeah, you know, one of these guys from Venezuela just got arrested. And he goes, oh, my God, just hung up and I called you back. So, long story short, he gets arrested, and then they tell me the story, oh, he gets arrested. And I'm like, oh, I get it.

This is a guy, so you understand the nature of these people. This is a guy that went to the American embassy in Venezuela after he got denied entry into the United States one day because he was bringing $100,000 cash, and didn't declare him. So they sent him back to Venezuela, told him, sir, we don't want you to come back ever again. He applies for a visa. So he came to the United States with $100,000 in cash. In cash, because that's how they move money back from Venezuela.

They don't believe in transfer. They just bring bags of money. And that's why the change of law right now, where they're basically saying you cannot do business with anybody from Venezuela in cash. So he came in the United States with $100,000 in cash, said, didn't declare it, and they caught. him while he's in immigration as he's coming through? Correct. He's extorting me by

this time. I'm already his victim. So he's calling me from immigration. You have to get me out of here. You have to get me out of here. And I'm sitting there going, dude, how? You're on the other side of the fence. Well, you've got to fix something. You've got to figure out something. So I'm making calls to attorneys. He

finally gets sent back to Venezuela and that puts more pressure on me because now they're blaming this on me because everything that happened, it wasn't because of me. So they're like, listen, I don't know who you're going to do it, but you have to bring me back to the United States. I'm like, dude, the only way I can tell you to do it is go to the embassy and try to get a visa again. So, he goes there, he gets denied.

He calls me, he goes, your idea didn't work. I got denied. I said, no. It has nothing to do with my idea. It has to do with the fact that you brought a hundred grand cash. Right. Well, you got to fix it. So, or, you know, we're going to kill your family.

Remember, we dismember this guy, blah, blah, blah. blah. I'm like, okay. So I get arrested and the agents are telling me like, listen, how do we bring these people from Venezuela here? Because there is no extradition. Right. And this is a member of the government. Yeah, he's a member of the government. And he's not stupid. I said, well, it's kind of stupid. There is one thing you can do. He applied for a visa once and they denied him. Maybe if you give him a visa, he'll come to the United States. He goes, you think so? And I said, I think so. I think Well, time goes by, and I'm reading the newspapers, and guess what happens? This guy is sitting at home one day, eating breakfast, and he gets a call from the American embassy,

and they tell him, hey, Mr. So-and-so, we made a mistake. We want you to come to America. The guy goes to the embassy, gets his visa, comes back home, and tells his family, pack your stuff. We're going to Disney. So the guy has literally like Mickey Mouse shirts and ears and the whole family, and he's his wife, his kid, everybody. He gets on the plane, lands in Miami, and sure enough, the EA is waiting for him on the gate.

So he kept saying, because I remember when you showed me the article. I'm reading this article, and he's like, it was like a booby trap. I landed in a booby trap. And I'm like, well, yes, you did. But these guys don't understand that. The United States doesn't work like that. Once they said no, they said no.

Right. You're not coming in again. So that case happened. And because I became... In Venezuela, somebody says, no, you can make a call, you can talk to a buddy. So my brother works for so-and-so. I can give this guy some money. Like, you can always fix a situation in Venezuela.

And remember, these are the guys that fix the situations in Venezuela. So that's why they kept telling me, you have to fix it. Because they know how to fix it in Venezuela. Right. And I have to explain to them, that's not how it works in here. There's nobody I can pay up, you know? That's a crime. Mind you, I was already breaking the law on my own.

own end doing my financial crimes. Right. Okay. So thank God that happened because I had to expose the case and I had to expose the extortion and I had to expose the abuse and the fact that my family was at risk and I had to talk to my kids and say, listen, if I do this, my life is at risk. You know, I may get killed because of this. You guys, we've got to put it on the balance, you know?

Can I ask you a question? You keep saying they were extorting you. The extortion, they're saying, look. look, if you don't get us our money back, we're going to kill you, your family, whatever, but weren't they also, only because I've, only because I know, I've heard the story, like, didn't you also, like, you lost a bunch of their money, didn't you convince them to give you more money? And that was a problem because I didn't really have to convince him that much.

So you, they already, listen, I just want to make this clear. They already feel like you owe them hundreds of thousands of dollars. They've lost 100,000 of dollars, and you basically go to them and you say, I can get your money back. I'm trying, but you have to give me more money to do it. Because they were offering me the money. Okay. Listen, we have to move this money, and you have to move it. And I said, well, if you want to make your money, if you want to recover the money, we need to reinvest money to make money.

That's how it works. So this was like digging a hole to cover the other hole, and it just became, it was, it was just, it was. they sent you more money but they send more money and listen if i unfortunately if i pick up the phone today and i said i think i got to figure out guys we got he they'll send money because the amount of money that they have is ridiculous right and then but the amount of money that they have that's ridiculous and they're getting money from the cartels they're laundering cartel money correct now i grew up here i didn't grow up there so the the source of the money to me was never disclosed right so it's like listen, we have this money, we need to move it over there.

If you don't move it for us, we're going to kill you. And if you don't give us your money back, we're going to kill you. Right. I know I read that in your transcripts where you were, it just kept getting worse and worse because they kept threatening you. Yes. You have to do this or we'll do this. So the threats got worse and worse, plus the videotape.

Escalating. It kept escalating. And once you were in it, it was just. I mean, I think I have been in prison for like six months. And I told the federal government, I said, listen, if you want me to give you, some information. I need my laptop and I need my cell phone. Right. So they bring me my cell phone and I show the agents and I'm like, look this, look at this. They had to write it down because it was something like 780 missed calls from these people in like 30 days. Just because I wasn't

picking up the phone. I was arrested. Yeah. But they were like, listen, you need to call us back. It's like the crazy girlfriend. They'll be like, listen, you need to call us back. We need to talk. Hey, why aren't you picking up my phones? Listen, we're going to kill you. We know you're hiding. Then they'll call again. Hey, dude, sorry about that. Listen, we need to talk again. And I'd be like, dude, this is insane.

So even the agents were like, man, these guys were playing a number of you. I mean, you, you know, you were definitely, definitely under pressure. So they finally get indicted. One of them gets arrested. The other ones are still in Venezuela. It's a big case that is according to my transcripts. It's one of the largest cases in the hemisphere. Yeah.

that got exposed at that time. And I benefited from it, of course. Right. You know, weren't you, didn't you get, didn't the CIA show up one time? The CIA showed up at one time. The people that I didn't know showed up at one time. Like, I was getting, I mean, I was a golden boy. Yeah, yeah.

Because I was the only one that spoke English, the only one that had, that was truly a victim of their abuse. Because everybody else was a co-defendant. So they don't want to talk because they're incriminating themselves in the crime. I was the one that they put the gun to his head and say, listen, you've got to commit this crime or will kill you. It doesn't make it less of a crime, but it makes me a victim of a crime, you know? And the government knew that I was willing to risk my life to provide them some kind of information to help me in my case because I have gotten 15 years. I have gotten over-sentenced to start with. So it took a while, but they corrected my sentence

And I went down to nine and a half years Which is still a lot of time Yeah And then I ended up doing eight years and a month In federal prison And six months of those in the shoe My last six months in solitary And then after I got released on June

I spicked me up Because I'm not a citizen I was a resident So they had to deport me So then it was the battle of, well, if you deport me, you're going to send me back to a country where they're going to kill me. So there is something called the Convention Against Torture, Cat, which is where my case is at right now. Because the bottom line is this. They understand that it's a life sentence to send me back.

But those six months on ice, which you didn't serve, because obviously you're a citizen, are insane. Yeah. Insane. That's a whole different ballgame with a whole different group of people. Because in there, all you see is like these people that are crossing the border. So people will come to me and said, I'm going crazy. I've been here for seven weeks and I don't know what to do. And I will tell them, listen, man, I did eight years in prison. Oh my God, how come you're not crazy? And I used to tell them, look, you didn't know me from before. maybe I am crazy you know maybe this is a crazy

me you're meaning it is different the abuse is different the system is different you know but I'll tell you what this is what surprises me it's not the crimes that we committed

you know we made a mistake and it was a reckless behavior that got us in prison when people think that when you say we made a mistake is like I stumbled into fraud

no no the mistake happened when we thought we could get away with it and there nobody gets away with crime. What showed to me is that is happening today again

the same thing same and the government like the... You say the mortgages, the and now it's the PPP loans. Yeah, the real estate industry. The real estate industry. I have had people that knew I did, that know that I did time. Come to me and go

listen, how much time did you do? I say well, eight years. Oh, years. So you have nothing on your credit, right? I'm like, dude, Are you kidding me? You're really going there. Like you're going to create me some false credit in history and then we're going to want, get loans?

Man. Yeah. Because it's back there. Yeah. Oh, listen, I'm constantly being contacted by people. I actually did a video where I had a guy fly in from New York to try and convince me to commit, you know, help him commit fraud. Now I tell you that?

A video? Yeah, I saw my channel. I do a video. I talk about how this guy, like I'm constantly, I was constantly being contacted by. guy saying, hey, bro, if I can talk to you, like, you know, if you could set it up, like, I'll go in the bank, you just have to set it up and I'll split everything with you. And I'm going, what are you doing?

I'm not going to commit fraud with you. What am I committing fraud? And I had one guy that actually flew in from new, like, he approached me like he was a real estate investor, like he's going to invest in real estate and want to just ask me some questions. You can ask me some questions. Okay, what's going on? What do you want to know? Like, I'm selling my business in New York.

I'm going to come. Like, what do you think I should do? I have $750,000. What should I do with that money in Tampa? What would you do? I'm like, I don't know. You could buy rental properties. You could this.

So we had a few conversations. It ended up to a bunch of, ended up, we started texting each other. So yeah. And so I'm just like, yeah, do this,

do that. Like we start texting every once in a while he's asking me questions and this and that. And he's seen my videos and he likes me. And so I kind of feel like we're, we're like friends. Like we're kind of being friends. And then one day he says,

hey, I'm coming to Tampa. And I said, oh, okay. He said, I'd like to love to have a coffee with you. Right.

So we're going to have a coffee. I want to buy a cup of coffee. I want to meet you while I'm there. Sure, no problem. Come, come, we sit down. We go to Starbucks. He buys me in some coffee. We sit there.

We're talking. And as soon as we sit down, he's like, look, bro, I wanted to fly in and let you know I'm for real. And I go, for real about what? And he goes, you know, I'm like, what? And he goes, listen, I need to make some money. Now I'm going to sell my, I'm selling my business and I've got $750. What can I do?

I go, I told you buy real estate. And he goes, no, bro, like, I want to do some fraud. Like, like, what you did? Like, what would you do? Like, I'll pay you. And I'm like, what are you doing? I'm not committing fraud with you. And so he goes into this whole thing.

No, no, we this. I can this. I go, let me explain something. I said, I'm already indicted. Like, as soon as they grab you, they're going to look at your phone. They're going to see my name. And so I go through the whole thing on how they'll grab me and add my name to the indictment. And then I can't really defend myself.

against fraud because I've committed fraud. Yeah. And I said, and on top of that, oh, I would never say nothing. It doesn't matter that you said. Your phone's going to say it. And I said, on top of that, the really big problem is this. You know, I said, the really big, uh, big problem overall is I said that if I was willing to be involved in committing fraud, why would I need you?

Correct. Why would I, why would I create a co-defendant that will cooperate against me? Like, why would I split a scam, which I'll get, you know, they don't. understand that like if you steal a hundred if you steal 10 million dollars everybody gets charged with the same 10 million they don't get that so they don't understand conspiracy means i'm i'm getting everything you're getting so correct why would i split everything if i think i'm going to get away with it why wouldn't i do it myself i can do it myself why would i do it myself take all the money and leave why would i give you half and allow you to testify and get your sentence cut and half

like why would i do that like it's so stupid that you would think i would be involved or involve someone else and two to want to be involved but two why would I involve you I don't need you you need me you're asking me to teach you right it's stupid and then that's the other thing he said what if I gave you like if I gave you like 25 grand for you to just teach me like spend a week with me I'm like

what are you talking about that's a guy that you need to tell him listen let's do this give me 25 grand I'm going to lock you in my bathroom for 13 years and then I'm going to teach you exactly what you want to learn right which is you're going to spend

13 years in a bathroom. And you're going to get out with nothing. With nothing. Right. You know. It's just, yeah. Yeah. But they don't understand.

And I don't know what your demographic is on your channel. But what made my case appealing for the federal government, okay, sexy, as my attorney used to say, your case is so sexy. And I would like, well, I guess we have different definitions of sexy, you know, is that my market was a Hispanic market. So these were Spanish-speaking people that these were Spanish-speaking people that these. didn't know any English. So anything looks good to them. This is a guy that has, these are people that don't know anything about the mortgage market. These are people that literally destroy the mortgage market, the real estate market. Right now, if you look at the demographic

of people buying, Miami, all Hispanics. Capital of fraud in the United States, Miami, Arizona, Vegas, all Hispanics. So I remember the agents telling me, the biggest part of your case is not so much what you did. What you did was pretty big. But the fact that the people that you did it with were all Hispanics. And the market that you target was Hispanic, Spanish speaking. So we're back to lack of education. That guy that is asking you to do fraud with him, he doesn't know. These guys are ignorant. People are asking for PPP loans right now and saying, oh, don't worry about it. I got $200,000. And I'm going to ask for forgiveness. Oh, you will. Yeah, yeah. Not of the loan. you're going to ask for forgiveness when they're sentencing you you know but it is what it is you know

it's a man it's it's it's never ending never never never never ending and now you have technology now you have you know I'm still trying to figure out this technology thing well when I got out like iPhones are like like like they're magic it's unbelievable listen I get out and I go to I have to open a bank account you know I can't work because oh that's another beauty of this thing I got out in December, 23rd, but I'm waiting to be authorized to work, and it's June. Right. I don't have a driver license. So I have a seven-year-old nephew that we have the same problem. We can't drive. So it keeps telling me, like, Uncle, can you take me shopping? No, bro. I'm waiting for you to be 16 to take me shopping. Like, how, so if you're in that limbo, how do they expect you to, like, if you didn't

have family to help you, how do they, like, you're lucky you have family that can help you and let you stay there and take care of you. But if you didn't have family, what do you do? So in the government's mind, they're saying, no, no, you go live in the street and you starve to death. Or we know we can push you enough where you'll break the law. Right. Where you're going to work without a permit. You're going to drive without a license. Where you're going to, you know what I mean? Right. And it's crazy. But this is the funny part. So I get out and I have my prison ID, which I lost. So literally, I'm completely undocumented right now. I'm the definition. So you all see it. I am the definition of an undocumented citizen. Because the only idea I had was my prison ID. I don't have

anything else. I don't have a driver license. So every time I went out to a bar or whatever, the waiter will say, like, do you have an ID? And I will say, I do, but I don't know if you want to see it. And they'll be like, oh yeah. And I'll be like, here it is. And I say, yeah, it's a prison ID, bro. It's the only thing I got. Yeah. I'm a convicted fellow. Okay, no problem. So I go to, I have to open an account. Because my daughters are like, listen, dad. We need to give you money, but we're not going to give you cash right we have this new thing called cash app right or sell or whatever I said yeah let's do it so I go to chase and of course I give my prison ID and the lady's like okay and I said this is my social security number so she's typing and she looks at me and she goes

give me a second so she gets up she comes back and I'm telling my daughter they're not going to take me and my daughter's like yeah yeah that they're not going to take me she comes back she goes We have a problem in the system. I don't think you can open an account with us. I said, all right. So my daughter goes, well, let's go to Bank of America. I said, let's do it. We go.

You know, Bank of America. I know. Prison ID. Social security number, yeah. We have something showing in the system here. We're not going to be able to open it at this time. I said, oh, thank you. No problem.

I said, I'll tell you my daughter. How many more banks do we do this? I call a friend of mine. He goes, what are you doing, man? Go to chime. I said to chime he goes yeah chime.com I said like an online bank

he goes yeah man I went to chime literally name date of birth approved congratulations I said yeah

10 days later I got my chime check card all I kept thinking is Lord thank you for not having chime 10 years ago when I was committing fraud

oh yeah yeah the stuff that it's available now like I'm literally back then I'm walking into a bank saying can I have that $9,000 and then they would check and they'd be like well he's got like half a million in his account here's nine grand like now I realize like now I would have just transferred it to Bitcoin or I would have bought you know whatever I would have just you know moved the money buying you know Ethereum or whatever and and laundered the money through there there's a your cash app or PayPal or whatever there is available now the other thing is funny is when you you say the Bank of America, like I opened a Bank of America. I walked in, I gave them $1,000 and opened an account. And a month later, I get a check in the thing saying, we cannot, we cannot open an account for you. We can't accept your money. We can't open an account for you. And they sent me in the money back. I tried to do a secured visa with them. I sent them $500 bucks because they initially like, yes. Then they come back, boom, here's your $500 back. like and I and you know my friend Stacy was like what's the problem with Bank of

America I'm like you know I do owe them a couple million dollars I feel like they're holding resentment over the two million that I owe them but that was like 15 years ago and I did time I did time I mean it's not on my credit like I don't get it like the only other bank I've got is a I open new Wells Fargo because the halfway house had a deal with Wells Fargo where they said anybody they sent them from the halfway house they would allow them to open the account. So they opened it. But Chase turned me down, Bank of America, turn me down,

and then I was just like, all right, I'm done. This is it. And it's insane because even to find a place to leave. Oh, yes, same thing. Listen, I attempted. I called like 10, 15 places. I tried it. And I will go into the leasing office and go, listen, I want to apply for an apartment here.

My kids are going to be paying for the apartment while, you know, get back on my feet. we have a $300 application fee I said I understand Is it refundable? No I said okay I'm going to give you the heads up I'm a convicted felon Was it a sexual crime No it wasn't a sexual crime

It was a financial crime Oh you shouldn't have a problem All right 300 bucks application fee next day Sorry we have to turn you down Dude I told you I wasn't a sex offender Where's my $300? Yeah what happened Sorry we look at your record and we cannot take you

Dude I don't know I'm not a sex offender but I had being sexually offended by this comment i think i just got fucked by you guys yeah so it's it's getting out of prison is so difficult it's so i understand why people are struggling yeah well you know that's the whole thing is like there's like a 70 or 80 percent recidivism right and people are like it doesn't make sense why would you get out and commit a car well you have no idea the difficulty like well even even if you could have even if you can get a job like like you go out and you apply for jobs and get jobs and everything else then as soon as they run your stuff they

anything that goes wrong at the job, you're fired. You're probably anything. I didn't do it. What doesn't matter you're the first person they look at? If they want to hire you at all, like you're always the last person they want to hire. Unless they understand the tax write-off that we are because we are a tax write-off, you know?

And which is what I tell my girlfriend, listen, you should be able to write me off for your taxes. I'm an excombat. You know, the 80s should give you some kind of tax benefit because I know it doesn't give you emotional stability. So I have become a little bit of an activist. Actually, I dressed up for the post. for the podcast but I'm usually wearing like a you know screw the BOP or a or

or prison reform now or something like that so this is my I don't know if the camera with which camera that one this one this one right but no this one just this says something I have this is the mask that I wear abolish mass incarceration so this is where I wear when I go into establishments all right so they I'm wearing my mask of course so I work like this and which is phenomenal because, you know, they ask you to put on a mask now when you go to the bank, which is, how many people did we do time with that were like, dude, I put my mask on and I went to the bank. Listen, prior to being incarcerated, I went into a bank one time, like I'm opening

a fake bank account. I went in with a baseball cap, right? They said, can you take your baseball cap off? You can't be in here with a baseball cap. Now I'm okay with a baseball cap and a mask and a face shield and glasses and everything. Oh yeah. Anybody can open a bank account right now. without a facial recognition situation. So I'm wearing this mask and I go into a, I think it was a store, and the lady goes, you don't believe in mass incarceration? And I said, no.

She goes, oh, so you're okay with criminals being out on the street. I said, yeah, I think so. And she goes, really? How about the murderers? Do you think murderers should go to prison? So I said, well, let me ask you. has the murder rate gone down since they've been going to prison? Because I think it has really has gone up.

She goes, well, that's not the point. I said, well, what is the point? Logic is not an argument, I said, so it's a combination of things. I think we live in the perfect storm. You have a system that doesn't work, which is the judicial system. You have a bunch of youngsters right now that don't understand the consequences of their actions. and you have access to a bunch of ways to commit crimes right now, anything from social media to,

you can create, back in our days, to create a fictitious person was a lot of work. Yeah. I mean, you have to find somebody, I mean, homeless that had an actual identity, and then you had to find somebody to create the identity and put credit on it and this and that. The latest thing is, which we were talking about, online notaries.

remote it's called remote notaries yeah good times good stuff what i was going to say is like right now i you know i i talk i've got a buddy who owns a couple of you know like four or five uh title companies and he's like you understand that you don't like now you can create the document scan it send it in and you just hit a button for to to fill up to send stuff to public records you hit a button that says certified that it's a certified original copy so it can be all completely fake, you can make it up on Photoshop, you can Photoshop the stamp, the

signature, you can pull the signature off, you can create this whole document that doesn't look anything like an original, and then you just scan it and you send it in and say certified original copy, and they immediately say this is a certified original copy, and now it's in public records. So simplicity, which is what they're looking for, has made it easier. Right, oh, and the same thing where

before, like let's say you bought, let's say you rent me your house. So you rent me at your house and then I go and I satisfy the loan first of all I don't you don't have to see me I can go I can contact a real estate agent online and I can say look I've seen some of your real estate listings I like this when I want to rent it so then I don't need to go through the house I already did the virtual tour just send me I want to rent it they can they can then email me the they can email me the the lease agreement I sign the lease agreement I send it back I wire them the money they've got the PayPal, whatever. I cash it. I sell them the money. They've got the money. They run my

information. They say, okay, great, you're cleared. Send them the money. Now, mail me the key or leave the key in the mailbox. Now I have possession of the house. So now I can go downtown. I don't have to actually go downtown anymore, by the way. I can just now search the title to the house, create a fake satisfaction of mortgage, satisfy the mortgage on the house, transfer the deed to the house into someone else's name. I can then turn around and I can put the house on the market, don't have to have a sign in the front yard nothing just stick it on the market stick it on the market or not even that i can just contact one of these companies that will buy your house online they then do a they do a review of the house and they say yeah your house is worth

three hundred thousand dollars you go okay that's a little less than i wanted but yeah i'll do it okay they schedule a closing now i could go to the closing virtually i don't have to go to the closing i actually sign all the documents over the internet i then ask that then they so i've now they then say, hey, where do we want the money sent? I have them transfer the money to an account that I opened online. So now I got the money online. So that, well, first the money goes in the title company. Then title company now sends it to me online. They wire the money, which they do all the time. You open up a bank account, which you can open up online all the time. Now I get all that money. I then take that money and I transfer that money and I buy Ethereum, Bitcoin, whatever.

I buy a bunch of different stuff in a virtual or wallet or what they call them a visible wallet or Yeah, they've got some kind of wallet now. Wait, so you buy this wallet that can't be transferred. I can then turn around and I can buy whatever I want, gold, cars, whatever, and they can't track the money. So the money's all gone and I haven't done anything. I haven't left my house. I just use my, you can just use a computer. Like, it's so easy to commit fraud now that it's insane.

As opposed to what I had to do and what you had to do. Like, I'm making documents. I'm driving stuff around. I'm going into banks. You remember the days of a, uh, uh, A light table where you have to put, like, you know, you turn it on and you put a document on top of the other document and you have to, like, make sure the lines matters. You're holding up the stuff to the light, I'm sliding around.

Yeah. Or then, you know, oh, listen, it's, it's, it's not good. It's not good. What's happening is not good. Yeah, I'm, I'm shocked that, you know, one, I'm shocked as there's just a ton of fraud. It's, it's also more difficult to catch people. Yeah. In some ways, it's easier.

Like, if you're smart, you can really get. away with it. If you're dumb, you're going to get caught right away. But this is the problem that people don't understand. At the end of the day, it's not about catching you. It's about catching somebody that will lead them to you. Yeah. And there is usually, you know, I mean, there is usually that one week link. Of course. I mean, on everybody's case. Had these guys that are like, you know, oh, I had the credit card mailed, which I had it mailed to. I had it mailed to my cousin. I'm like, your cousin. Well, yeah, but that's the whole thing. Like, they won't, when when they get there and they, I'm like, yeah, but they're going to go to the house.

Yeah, but I'm not there, but your cousin is. Yeah, but my cousin's not, he doesn't know that. Yeah, but when they walk over and they have your picture and your nephew or your cousin's wife or somebody says, hi, hey, my name's John, I'm with the FBI. Do you know this guy? Most people's initial reaction, a decent citizen's reaction is to help. So a decent citizen is going to go, oh, yeah, that's Jimmy. Yeah, why?

What's up? Like, they don't think. So guess what? You're done. no they wouldn't they would do that because your your cousin works at walmart and he's a good citizen like he want a good citizen wants to help the police he's not thinking protect my cousin he's thinking the police need to know who this person is oh i can help them that's my cousin he's not thinking you're about to go to jail for 12 years like he's just thinking hey that that's jimmy like and

not just saying what about your what about your nephew what about your niece what about their girlfriend like you've got to make sure that your cousin who knows what's coming answers the door and says the right thing and did you and which means you now have to make him a part of the conspiracy by telling him and you know what the problem is I remember you and I read in a book in the library many many years ago and then you went to to therapy right when I when you got out prison for one hour every week I had to go for it's done wonders by the way one I'm all better you're absolutely absolutely give me the number of the guys So I am, I'm going to therapy right now, you know, because, well, listen, I don't know if how you, we talked about this also, but prison does a number on your psyche, you know?

Yeah. And so I said, listen, I'm going to go to therapy and I'm going to talk it out. So we're talking and the guy's listening to me and I'm, of course, telling my story and what's going on. And he goes, listen, I'll tell you what your problem is. He goes, you have a narcissistic personality. And we talked about this, remember? and I said, really? And he goes, really, dear? You're going to, you don't know it? He goes, you spend 15 minutes here and all you gave me was all your accomplishments and how you do this and how you do that. He goes, the problem with narcissism is the next, the best you can hope for is to remain narcissistic. The next step is to become a sociopath. And that's when your actions cause pain to other people, but you don't care. well people like us walk that line and we jump back and forth back and forth right there is a lot of people like us you know so that guy that is involving his cousin and to listen can you get that package for me don't worry about it you don't have to say any don't even open

the package as soon as they UPS comes in with those papers or those credit cards you call me I'll go back nothing's going to happen to you right you're a sociopath you're not thinking about the ramifications to that other person. All you're thinking about is how do I get this person to do what I want them to do so that I can get that package. Yeah, but you're putting him in danger. This could happen. That's all irrelevant. It will never happen. Yeah, you always justify it. There's no chance that's going to happen. It will never happen. I used to have offices everywhere and I used to do the same thing everywhere. We used to bring the people by bosses. We used to do cashbacks. And I had all these mortgage brokers and all these realtors and everybody. And at one point, they will come to me and say,

this and do it. Is this like legit what we're doing? Yeah, it's fine. Relax. What's not legit about it? Are we selling drugs? No. Okay. Are we robbing people? No. All right. So what's not legit about it? Well,

nothing was legit about it. Right. But you become a sociopath. You don't care. You don't care about consequences. And that's a, that's a dangerous place to be. Well, you know, you either become, you know, super you become either super successful crushing people on your way to the top, you know, or you become a criminal, you know, crushing yourself, you know, people on, you know, your

way to the bottom or on your way to prison, you know, it's, it's, you know, and like most actors and, you know, are sociopaths or, you know, and are narcissistic. And I mean, you know, you've got to be able to, if you can, to me, the big thing is recognizing it. Correct. If you can recognize it, then you can pull back. Like an addict. Right. And I think I've had this conversation with you where it's funny people in the comments say this.

They're like, it must have been killing Cox to not talk, to sit there and listen to this guy's story. Like, they'll say that in the comments. Like, and they're right. Like, I'm wanting to constantly jump in, jump in, talk about myself, talk about myself. Like, I used to, when I went to Ardap, you weren't there. Okay. Yes, I was there. When you got kicked out?

Yes. Yes. Well, no, I didn't get kicked out. I signed out. Twice. Listen, they didn't want you. That's not what happened. But anyway.

This guy, not only did he go to the Ardap, and they didn't want him. That's not what happened. He sided up with the only Caucasian-Asian guy. Oh, the guy. That was after I was out of Ardap. Oh, you were out of Ardap already? I already quit. Remember, I got the, I wanted to stay in Ardap so they would.

keep me at Coleman so they would move me to a camp because my mom kept was coming to see me that's correct so I kept I would go in they put the management variable on me and I drop out yeah and then they take it off and I go back in they put it back on me and I drop out so um have you done an episode I'm sorry to drop you have you done an episode on Ardap on this thing I wrote a book on it I know you wrote a book on it but I think I think these guys will enjoy Ardap that's a that's I should do a whole of course I should have somebody here from Ardap, there's a guy known named Ardap Dan.

They call him Ardap Dan. You should even explain what a pull-up is and all that stuff. I mean, it's a great. The book's great. Well, you know, I was in there during the one of the few times when a guy pulled up another guy and the guy attacked him in Ardap. Swung on him, jumping. Boom. It was a huge fight.

Anyway, my point is that when they were doing they did the psychological evaluation. so they ask all these questions and the guy at the very end of the whole thing he goes, is there anything you would like to get out of ARDAP? And I went, yeah, yeah, I said, I would like to be able to have a connection with people at a point where, you know, when they're talking,

I'm actually listening to them. I said because I've had entire conversations with people for like, and they've talked for 20, 30 minutes, an hour. And when I walk away, I don't know anything about them. I said, I haven't paid attention at all. And he goes, well, when I go, he goes, well, when other people are talking now, what are you doing if you're not listening to him? I go, I'm waiting for an opportunity to talk about myself. I said, so if I could get to that point where I cared enough about them to pay attention, I said, that would be a huge, huge deal for me.

And this is what people, the, the guy was just like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. DTS was just, the look on his face was like, I can't believe he just said that. And this is what people don't understand. To commit fraud, you need to be that guy. Oh, yeah. Because there's a point where you are talking so much about yourself and talking so much about yourself that people go to, at least in my case, that people say, okay, man, I want to be like you. Yeah, what do I do to be like you? They get wrapped up. They get wrapped up in the interest of your life and the things that you're doing and how amazing you are. They get sucked in by, into that world, listen I used to have seminars like I see happening nowadays yeah on investing in real estate

so these people will pay to hear me talk and then I will eventually send them to my developments and have them pay to buy there we know there's a huge on YouTube the huge thing is the gurus and listen I remember it was perturbing because I will lead him and lead them and lead them to the point where they will say okay give us the secret where Where would you put your money? And that was it. And I was okay, I got you. And in prison, it was the same thing.

People will say, listen, what are you doing? You're here for fraud, right? Yeah. Do you mind going for a walk with me on the red yard? And I'll be like, yeah. So they'll talk about, you know, we start talking and I'll say, you know, yeah, I used to live here. I used to do this. I used to do that.

And I knew it will come in a second. Listen, if you had money to invest. You had 40 grand. And you will see me like, you'll see the fans coming out, you know. If you had money to invest, what would you do? And my first question always was, how much money are we talking about? I was just saying that.

So then they'll say, well, between, you know, let's say 50 to 100 grand. And I'll say, okay, listen, I'm going to teach you the first lesson you're going to learn in prison. Don't ever tell me how much money you have to invest. And he was like, why not? I said, because the first thing that I thought is how much of that 100 grand, I can take from you for me and how much of that you'll be happy with for the next five, six years

until you figure out that I just screw you out of money. Don't do that. But people tend to gravitate towards people like us and open up, which is, I never understood it. And I have friends in Prizes when I used to tell me, man, why do people talk to you about money?

Don't you know that you're here for fraud? And I was like, yeah, but that's how it's always been, you know? And I'm sure it's the same thing with people that are, well, I don't even have to tell you. How many doctors, how many fraudulent doctors we ask in prison? Listen, can you check me out to see what is wrong with me? I mean, it's just people are drawn to people with their personalities. Yeah. And it's dangerous.

Very, very, very dangerous. All right. So I'm, I, all right. Let's wrap this up. You want to wrap this up? only because there's things I want to ask you, but I think they're off limits. Yeah.

I know that there are cases, there are things that are going on. For now. But I'm definitely, as things, as the dust settles and things clear. But when you were incarcerated towards the end, you started doing a lot of legal work, right?

I started doing a lot of legal work. That's how I ended up in the shoe. Oh, okay. Yeah, I ended up in the shoe. You were helping the guys get out of ice, guys get their cases moved along. Yeah.

And right now, like, I work, I volunteer for a lover. And my, my, what I do is I do research for guys that are on detention. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's, the system is a disaster. Yeah. The system has to change.

Yeah. I mean, if the, if the Bureau of Prison system and the justice system is horrible, I can only imagine what ICE is like. It's, yeah. Like that, this is how they treat you when you're a citizen. Yeah. What if you're not? This is, this, this, that's like the cream of the crop.

Then you go to ice. I, I, oh, yeah. I used to always say, look, like, the Bureau of. prisons is how the government would treat you if they had total control over you. Like that's what the system would be like. You'd be moved around, told what to eat, told what to do, when to do this, when to do that. They would give you bare minimum medical. Like if they had all total control, this is how they would treat you.

Well, I'm going to tell you a story that you will appreciate because your sense of humor is a little dark like mine. So I came here very young to the United States. Right. And I grew up very non-Hispanic. You know, I lived in Minnesota out of all places. In St. Cloud, Minnesota. So I always thought I was white.

Always. All my life, I thought I was white. Even when I went to prison, I was like, I'm white. You know, I'm with the white folks because I'm white. Well, until I went to ice and I realized I wasn't white. I'm brown. And so I did seven months there because I'm brown with the browns, you know? Yeah, yeah.

That's what we do. So I come out of ice and I'm like, okay. I'm brown. So I realized, I'm not white. It was a me little, you know, personality issue, but I'm brown. And I'm comfortable with my brownness. But I have friends that are white that know me from when I thought I was white. So the other day, I was talking to somebody and he go, and I said, well, you know,

because I'm, the big joke, because I'm brown, right? And he's like, dude, but you're not brown. You're white. And I said, dude, what the hell are you talking about? I'm brown. And we had a whole argument about why I wasn't brown. and I'm like, dude, but I'm brown and I'm okay with being brown.

And he's like, no, but I'm not okay with you being brown because you're white. And I'm like, oh my God, this is the most senseless conversation I have ever had in my life. That's what the system does. The system kind of segments everything. I mean, it just gives you a different perception on reality.

And yeah, one day we have to sit down and we have to talk about a bunch of other things that are going on. So I was going to say, Do you remember Red Bull, Andrew Levinson? Yes. Okay. So he and this guy named One were having an argument one time when Obama, I think I've told you this.

Obama was president and one was a black guy and Andrew Levinson is obviously a white guy. And so. Who like to have sex with midgets, by the way? Yeah, I think I did hear the story. Yeah. So they're having an argument and one is the black guy is saying. saying that Obama is not black. And Andrew Levinson,

Levinson is saying he is black. And so as I'm walking down the hallway, they go, wait, wait, wait, wait, Cox, Cox, come here, come here. You know, they always want you to settle an argument. Come here, come here. And I go, what's up? And they go, listen, is President Obama, is he black? And I go, and I looked at him, and I go, no, he's not black.

He's a white guy. And one goes, see, see? And Andrew goes, he goes, Levinson goes, he goes, wait, wait, whoa, why do you say he's not black? And I go, he doesn't even have a felony. And so one just like, so in me, Andrew starts laughing and one's like, it's all upset. I go, what, what did you expect me to say? Anyway, so that reminds me.

And people need to understand. Race in prison kind of goes, I mean, you have your racial issues and you know that if there is ever an argument, like Matt is my white friend. And if there was ever a fight between whites and browns, either he's going to punch me or I'm going to punch him but that doesn't have anything to do with our friendship you just has to have I remember I had white bunkeys that used to tell me that

you know if there is ever a fight I'm going to have to beat you up but we're still buddies right I mean after that we're going to hang out and I'll be like yeah you just I just have to ride with my car I'm just going to have yeah you're going to have to be with your people and I'll have to you know I'll just eat out of a freaking straw for the next two weeks but then we'll be cool you know we're friends whatever so that racial barrier kind of disappears when I got out my kids were like that you're super politically incorrect I mean you have to like tone it down a little bit because you're not in prison anymore and I was like yeah but I don't you know I earned my stripes and I did my time and they're like yeah yeah no no no no no no

nobody knows that you just got out of prison so tone it down a little bit with the racial things because oh yeah it's so brutal in prison like it's sober like the things when I even when I went into prison I would have never said things that once I got into prison After a few years, I'm saying horrible, vicious things. You know, and then when I got out of prison, it's like, immediately you're getting the looks and you're like, I can't talk like this anymore. Yeah. Like if you, look, for instance, saying, it took me a while to start saying please and thank you. Because in prison, nobody says please and thank you. It's like, yo, bro, give me, let me get some of that coffee. When I first got there, I'm like, I mean, can you say please?

Yeah, yeah. Can you say please or what? Man, come on, man. Let me get some of that coffee. Let me get it. And you're like, I'm like, God. These guys are savages. Listen, two years later, I'm like,

yo, bro, you got any sweet and low? Let me get some of that. And I'm like, whoa, I got out. Now I'm realizing, I have to say thank you and please and be polite and be nice and be, like, it's hard to get back used to that. And you know, when you realize you're not a person, when you start dating somebody.

And you're like, hey, listen, can you give me that? And they're like, what did you become your maid? Why don't you get up and get that? Or when you have an argument, like I will say things like, listen, if, hey, they're there. If anybody talked to me like that when I was in prison They wouldn't be able to Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you're not in prison

Yeah, yeah So guess what? I get to talk to you however the hell What are you going to do? Staff me, shank me? Well, you know. You keep my name out your mouth, that's what you do. You're lucky one out in the streets.

Well, what I said to Jess the other day She was, we were doing something I forget I looked at it and I said I don't know what she said she was going to do but I said, oh, I said, I wish you would. I wish you would. And she looked at me and she goes, she says, don't get hurt, okay? I'm not about that life no more.

That's such a joke now. Thank God. And I have terms that I have to like, like I went to the doctor a week ago. And my daughter's called me and they're like, that, where are you? And I say, I'm a medical. And I'm like, oh my God. And I said, I'm at the doctor.

And then I kept saying all day like, yeah, because I went to medical. I'm like, Jesus Christ. And the Tupperwheres. I keep telling them, listen, do you have a bowl? Yeah. And I'm like, it's not called a bowl, man. Sorry, I got so it's, it's, you know, it becomes part of your life. Yeah. It's a lot of time. Yeah.

A decade in prison, it's a long time. It's a long time. Like I was telling their body that left. Yeah. Yeah, my buddy. Yeah. Yeah. Forget about everything else. Forget about the gangs. Forget about the stabbing. Forget about that.

If you're listening to these podcasts, if you're watching me right now, I want you to imagine the next 10 years without getting laid. Yeah. Without somebody from the opposite sex, obviously, because there's a lot of sex going on in prison. But just think about that. Just think that somebody told you tomorrow, June 24th, whatever the day it is, that until the year, 20131...

Yeah, you can't have sex. You can't have sex again. But you have to think about it like this, too. is that, you know, it's like, it's funny how much stuff is, how many people base crimes on their pride and being a man and this and that. Okay, well, you're saying you're being a tough guy and a man. Well, if you get locked up, you're not having sex for 10 years. How much of a man does that make you?

That's it. Like, if you start really breaking it apart, you're like, oh, wow, yeah, you know what? Like, you can't turn the TV. You have to ask permission to turn the TV. By the way, you know who's having sex during those 10 years? Your wife. Yeah, exactly. Lots of it.

Yeah. good times so yeah I mean there is a there is a lot of things about prison that people don't think about the TVs the lights the the bathrooms the showers the you know I remember when I took a shower

without sandals without you know shower shoes I was like my God it felt uncomfortable it was weird I was like is this is this even hygienic I mean for a year for really six no for six months after I got out of the halfway house at 4 o'clock

I started feeling uncomfortable because at 4 o'clock count. So I would feel uncomfortable that I'm supposed to be in my cell waiting to be counted. It's like, what sell? What are you thinking? Like, mentally you're just... It's insanity. I'm so...

Yeah. It plays a number. Go in the grocery store, all the stuff you can buy. Like, there's not a commissary. There's not like two items that you can buy in this group or three items. There's, you know, 150. Which one you're going to buy? I love going to the supermarket, but I just, like, I go with a shopping car and go,

around and around and around and around and it's what you said it's too many choices the only aisle that don't go is the one where they have the roman noodles that one i just burst right through it but everything else it's it's just it's different it's different it's different world good times yeah and i think a lot of people that you know like they said there are a lot of people watch this podcast and it's really cool to hear the crime stories and it's cool to see man they had a but it because we had a lifestyle yeah we had we had we had i had a lifestyle you know i had man i i i never looked at a price tag, or anything, anything. I will go to a restaurant and, and listen, I remember many times I will go out with people,

with a group of people, and I will give my credit card to the waitress when I walked in. And I will say, listen, bring the check in that card because I don't want to be fighting who's going to pay one. Yeah. So I didn't even know if they overcharged me. She would just bring the credit card slip. I will sign it, and that was it. I mean, private flights. Best hotel suites.

I hear people, people used to bitch about gas. like the man it's a dollar 75 or it's a dollar and I never like the things that people thought about back then that I would hear them complain about it never even occurred to me like and then you go back to a shoebox and leaving of a shoebox for years oh and you're calculating commissary to try and buy like do I haven't okay I can't get the extra cream I don't have enough to get the extra cream or it's a dollar 65 and I only have a dollar 25 after all of this stuff and I mean it's an eye opener then you call come back and like all my clothes at first they were like monochromatic so there is outfits that

I wear that people go dude you look that you're an inmate and I'm like oh yeah I guess I bought like a prison shirt you do understand everybody complains that I wear nothing about white and black shirts okay so I wear on the same boat I like I wear blue jeans all I wear blue jeans white or black shirts that's all I wear I'm still wearing the same blue jeans that I got when I got to the halfway house I went to Walmart I bought three hundred dollars worth of clothes I bought four blue jeans I'm still wearing 90% of the time I'm wearing those blue jeans And I'm going to tell you one thing

I wouldn't trade this For the world right now Oh no it doesn't even matter That it's like to me that I'm just getting by Every month like I could care less I can care less man I'm happy I don't have to worry about all the stuff So yeah the stories are cool

And their lifestyle is cool And you know going into a place And people knowing about it Or going to realize how good they have it You got to have you got to be stripped down And have nothing before you can really realize how how what a gift listen what a gift like like like this i don't need a tv i don't really need much i just need and it's crazy sometimes like i thought i was going to watch

a lot of tv when i got out i'm like okay i'm going to catch up with every show man i don't watch tv no oh i've been totally broken of that habit like totally i'm off that habit the only time i watch stuff is sometimes i'll put in like netflix which like i don't even pay for netflix just pays for Netflix. Like, I'm on her account. Like, like I have YouTube premiere. I'm on somebody else's account. Like, I don't, but can you add me to your account? Why? Because I don't have enough money left over at the end of the month. Yeah, yeah, no problem. I put, I'll put on documentaries or I'll put on a TV show. I don't watch it. I listen to. I'm painting while maybe it's on, but I'm barely even paying attention. If I do that at all. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, like, all these people, oh, I watched the whole series of this. I'm like, and I have people telling me, hey, have you watched a show? No, you have to watch it. When do you watch these shows you should be having sex with your girlfriend you should be having sex with your boyfriend you think i spent 10 years in prison to come out and watch tv what four hours a day of no no no no no no that's that's that that that comes later that comes later if ever right now it's catch up time catch up with my kids have you watched orange the new black no i live i live yeah orange is the new black and let me tell you it's not the new black it's fucking orange i wore it for six months in the shoe orange is orange that's it yeah man so let's wrap it up let's wrap it up

Sorry, I mean, you know. I know. Good to see you, man. We're going to continue this. Yeah, yeah. As soon as other things resolve themselves. As soon as other things resolve themselves and I get a little more. Assuming you don't go back to Venezuela and get hacked up.

Well, I remember this nice guy in prison, his question for a long time was, how much do you think they will pay me if I tell them where you are? That's not true. That is true, and you know that you used to ask me. Listen, so they want to kill you? Yeah. How much do you think they will pay me if I tell them where you are? By that point, I'd always have to contact with them. So I don't know if this is more like a ransom video that I'm doing here and it's going to be distributed somewhere else.

They're waiting right now. Yeah. They're waiting right now. I don't know if I should be getting out of this place and they're going to be some. Yeah. All right. Hey, if you like the video. Oh, so anyway, this was Juan Sanchez.

I'm sure he'll be back. And if you like the video, subscribe, hit the like button, leave a comment for the algorithm, share the video, send it to as many people as you can. And that's it. And I appreciate you watching and... Same here. See you. Asa manana.