Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Con Man Sells the Eiffel Tower | Matt Cox True Crime Podcast

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

Con Man Sells the Eiffel Tower | Matt Cox True Crime Podcast

I wish I had a camera in that room when I had that conversation. When I bribed this, I bribed this politician. I'm trying to, well, I'm trying to get him elected. We had this blatant, fraudulent conversation. Like, once he, once the curtain got pulled back, he was all in. He was like, okay, all right. What are we doing? Hey.

No, no, no, no, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, hey, everybody, this is. Oh, shit. See, yeah, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. Okay. Okay. Me, me, me, me. So. I get giddy.

I get giddy. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Cox, and I'm here with Zach. And we're going to, today we're going to do a podcast. We're going to talk about Victor Lusting. He is, he's one of the greatest con men out there. He's also listed as the greatest. I mean, is he listed?

Yes. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. He's a let. He actually created. the ambiance the the the feel of the the legend of con like people talk about cons that he's done and not even realize who it was or that it ever actually happened they can't believe that he's the inspiration behind all these different different types of cons um he uh anyway one of the greatest con men

ever super interesting guy and we're just going to kind of go over who he is and talk about his various various scams and that's pretty much it that's what we're going to do uh and if you so if you like the video do me a favor and see now i feel like i feel like what's his name where i got to do it perfect or something i don't have to do it perfect okay so if you like the video do me a favor and hit the like button yeah subscribe yes hit the bell yes leave a comment yes and uh you know that's uh that's that's pretty much it and so we're going to get into it right now all right Victor okay so the pronunciation of his name I've heard it pronounced like multiple times I think it's uh lustic let I say lusting lust yeah you said lusting but it's lustic

Lustick Lustick Lustick yes that's fine all right he was born in 1890 um yeah he was born in Hungary which is I don't know what he was he born hungry or was he born in Hungary I know I mean he was crying he was crying but go ahead go ahead I'm just yeah so he was born he was born in Hungary and here's the thing there's like I watched one video where they were like he was basically born to like poor in a poor family you watch another one they say in a middle class but what he told everybody he would meet was that his father was like the mayor of the town so so he was born in a rich family although this is the thing about him is he they said he seemed like he came from money right like they

You know, it wasn't like he was, uh, he had a bad grammar or anything. He seemed educated. And, um, and it seemed like he was from the upper, you know, upper crust. But the thing is I've met guys that were born, you know, they were born raised in the projects. And yet they speak super well. They're articulate. They're, it's just a matter of study and how you want to present yourself. And, you know, uh, so he was, uh, yeah, so, so he was able to kind of, live in that world, you know? And anyway, what happened was he was born, went to school, apparently was a gambler in his early age, early upbringing, and loved messing around with women, which, you know, who doesn't.

But apparently, at one point, because if you see the picture of him, which, you know, you could put up a picture, Colby, like you could put up a picture of him if you, because there's lots of him, he's got a scar on his face. He actually started messing around with another guy's girl. And this was some serious shit back then. And the dude beat his ass and cut him with a knife. Well, you got to keep in mind that a scar can, you know, you can give a thousand stories for a scar.

Oh, that's true. You know, so when you're dealing with that, you know, whatever seems the most exciting. And sometimes when you're running a con, you know, You get to make up your own background. Right. Well, when anybody ever asked me about this scar, you know, that scar right here? Yeah.

I always tell them, I was just look at them and I go, prison basketball game. And they're like, wow, I'm like, bro, it seems it's not, it's a joke. And they had no idea you were just the ball boy. Don't get that. And you tripped. But, you know, this scar. This scar here. Or, you know what I always love.

What, you know what I'll tell people. So I say, prison basketball game. And then, then, you know, they see the scar. but you know the scar is it is a chickenpox scar and I had it it was a big brown scar and I went to the doctor and I had it removed I had a thin scar there but that's no good I like that absolutely I mean that that even sounds pampered or or I go with or I go with it was the 2000 and it was the 2008 riot at Coleman I think it was too remember my name showed up in in the art there's an article that comes out yeah it says that you're there that I'm there And who was the other guy? What was the guy? But he was at the low. Wasn't that guy at the low?

Yeah. I wasn't at the, at the pen. I was in the media. You were in the media, but the other guy that he mentioned was at the low. Neither guy. Like, they mentioned me and they mentioned black. What was the name?

The guy that owned all the... Oh, not Blackwell. No, his last name was like... But he owned all the newspapers. So he owned a bunch of newspapers. He was at Coleman. He was a billionaire. He was a billionaire.

He was a billionaire. He's at Coleman. I'm at the low. I'm at the... Oh, Conrad Black. Conrad Black. So Conrad Black is at the low. I'm at the medium.

They talk about a riot at the pin where guys are stabbed, an inmate was shot, multiple people. From the tower and everything going on. Yeah, we could hear the helicopters going, but you read the article, you sound like, it sounds like I was in it. I was in the, but they're like, we're not sure where Mr. Cox was located during the riot.

I was at the, I was in the, under the bunk. Under the bunk in the medium and another institution. Like, I'm nowhere near this place. Right. they would have to escape their prison and break into my prison to get close to me. So, but, you know, so sometimes I'll go, ah, prison riot. You know, you can look it up and then you look up the article.

Yeah, look, right, right. Man, bro, that's a, I'm just joking. I wasn't there, but still, right? Like, I could pull that off. So, so obviously his scar is going to be some fantastic. It's not going to be some, like, knife fight. He throws in knife fight. Truth is, he probably just fell down.

You know, I tripped it fell. Yeah, well, I was running through the whole. Always at school. Somebody tripped me and I fell down. Stupid. But that's the benefit of the con. You create the most fantastical story. Just for the reaction.

It's for the react. Yeah. You could be extremely indifferent. Look, you could always say, you know, well, my father was very abusive. And they're like, oh, God, their heart goes out to you. They want to help you. Yes. Yes.

You want the react. And you judge it off the best reaction. You know, like one, you tell somebody in one story and they're kind of like, you're like, okay, I won't use that again. Yeah, I'll tweak it. Next time I tweak it and I tweak it and I tweak it. That's all right. That's right.

All right. So he, so old Victor. Old Victor. Young Victor had some issues. But what he did was he realized that he worked for a little bit, wasn't a fan, decided working wasn't for him. So then he decided, oh, wait, he ran. He was gambling. And then he ran a few cons, but apparently he ran some cons and they didn't.

Like, he's not making a lot of money. Right. And so he thought, you know what I need to do? I need to go to a place where there are people have money. And that was the cruise liners, like, right? So these huge cruise ships that go between Europe and the United States have tons of people with money on them. So he ends up getting, he ends up getting himself a ticket. And when he, his first con, the one that he ran for years on the cruise liners was that he was a, he was a, he was a, a, uh,

a producer of, what is it, Broadway musicals. Right. And he was looking for investors. And so these people, he would get them to invest in Broadway musicals. You know what's funny about that is, did you ever see the musical, the, the producers? Yes. Yeah. Like, that's the whole premise is, Mel Brooks.

These guys invest a bunch of money. Then they flop. Yeah, and it flops, but they get. to pay themselves like they get they they they they skim the whole way through they can show you where all your money was lost like there's no money and it was a flop they pay themselves so so i'm saying he ends up getting investors to invest into these uh broadway musicals which of course never occur right and he just here's what's what's interesting is like like you're gonna i'm gonna scam you get 10 20 30 grand from you right and then hang out with you for the next six days that's complete

psychopath. Like you were, you know what I'm saying? You would think the guilt with like, if it doesn't bother you at all to be hanging out with this guy for the next six days. And that's the cell, you know, that's. Right. And then you hang out with them. And then, of course, he gets to tell all this stories. Absolutely. Get to test everything out. You get the, that's when you perfect it. But that's the cell. The cell is not always before the exchange. It's sometimes it's after the exchange. Just, you know, the law. Yeah. That's right. The law. The problem with any type of selling of any kind is, you know, there's always buyer's remorse.

Like sometimes a couple days later they're like Well and that's assuming they give them cash Like if they just give them a check or something Then you know then he's got to get off the boat Go get the check or whatever right well and the cell is important Because you might realize because sometimes it's a time frame Like if you're when you're thinking it up you're like okay I'm gonna need at least three weeks after

So you might have to do some prepping Because like he might come to realization of something And I need to be there to buffer that so that I can get away completely clean. I mean, if it's a, if you're, if you're a decent con man, which you'll see this guy is. He he obviously has, you know, all of that in place. Absolutely. Right.

Like, like, like when I would, when I'm convincing the bank to give me $200,000, like you can, anything I give you, you can check. Right. You know, you can look up. You can call the bank. You can call my, my, you know, you call on the W-2s and the pay stuff. You can check this. You can call that person.

And you can check. Like, I've got all of it. You're not going to catch me by, by double checking my stuff. What, um, so for him, I'm sure he had a company set up, or at least you have some woman in a room answering the phone. Like, I have an HQ. I have a, you know, I have all these answering services. I have the websites. Like, so I'm sure he had all that taken care of.

I mean, if you're making that kind of money, you can't be sloppy. I hate it when I hear some con man who he got caught because, like that guy. Chris Arlington and he was running a huge credit card counterfeiting scam and he his whole thing comes undone because when he goes to buy the room he uses a fake credit card right it gets the real money right it gets declined or use your real credit card Chris you're making a couple million dollars a year but you think it's at that point you're thinking it's there's no no catching like I'm so far ahead you're invincible he thinks he has it down well then he goes downstairs, they call him and say, hey, your room, the card was declined. He goes

down to use another fake credit card, declined, another one declined. Then he uses one that goes through. He goes, okay, we're good. Yeah, great. He goes upstairs. Well, the person, the clerk's like, okay, now that's just three in a row. The guy pulled out a stack of credit cards. No, he calls and says, hey. And when, of course, the banks, like, calls their people, you know, the actual card holder, they're like, I'm not in L.A. And then the guy comes back. I'm looking at you I shouldn't be looking at okay

then the guy comes back or then the guy hears that he calls the police the police come in when they walk in that walk into Chris's room

he's that counterfeiting and credit cards everywhere it's insane your whole thing came undone and this is his

third arrest by the way he ends up being in L.A. your third time third strike life I don't think he got life I think he did

get something ridiculous like 20 years I don't know exactly but because luckily in L.A. it's still up to the judge right

well that that's not fully, that's not the lustic type of con man, that's not fully, like, that's what I'm saying about the self. I'm saying that's stupidity. I'm saying that's stupidity. This guy doesn't have that issue. Staying around to see, to make sure you are a buffer. That's just kind of like, hey,

I'm getting away with this. So there's not a whole lot of planning in that. That type of con is happening off the cuff. That's not like planned out. That's just a short con. That's a short con. That's just some idiot. You've got to, you know, as soon as the money's in hand, he practically has to run. Yes. This is, you're talking about somebody that

giving a lot of thought and heart into it. Oh, and listen, he's dressed apart, he talks the part, he's got a story down, and he does this for years and years and years. Perfect. So, here's the thing, when World War, when World War I starts, all these cruise lines

start going out of business because people aren't, people aren't traveling in battlefield waters. They're not interested in being on a ship that could be sunk. You know, so they say, yeah, we're done with that. For a while, for a while. Right. After the war, We're going, honey.

He moves his operation to, he moves his operation to what, to New York? Is it New York or just the L.A.? It's just the L.A. I mean, sorry, just the United States. The United States in general. Well, when he goes to the United States, he switches, he switches up the scam to the box. The Romanian box. Yes, yes.

Oh, no, no. First what he does, first what he does is he actually, he's a slight. of hand artists where he'll be doing something over here while he moves something to the side. You know, he's always, he's good with his hands. So one of the things he does, and they never, I watch several things on this and I read an article on it. It never specifies exactly what he does. What he actually, the only thing you can really get out of this is he goes into a bank, which I love taking money from banks. So he goes into the bank and he provides them security bonds backed by real estate. So apparently

there's some real estate that's been taken back, it's been foreclosed on, or it's real estate that needs to be foreclosed on, whatever, it's a bond that's connected to real estate. And he convinces the bank to lend him. How much they lend him? I forget, it never really says, does it?

Yeah, I think on the deal it was like, I don't want to say, because you got 70,000. That's... No, no, that's different. That's different. It was tens of thousand. But this is back in the 20s. It wasn't matter if it's 20,000. That's like That's like $300,000 today. So he, whatever, let's say, let's say $20,000.

So he goes in, they give him $20,000 for these bonds. And then he gets the money and he actually, through sleight of hand, walks out with the bonds also. And the money. And the money. You can imagine, like, these are scams that they know about. Yeah. I remember because they said he presented a secure box. Back then, everything came in a secure box.

So he had a secure box where he had a separate flap. So when he opened him and showed them the bonds in the box, he closed the box, slid the bonds out, gave them the box, they gave him his box with the money, and he actually left with the bonds and the money. Just so they would never know the bonds were fake. It's just, that's actually a bank robbery. Yeah. He, okay, so that's one. After that, he moved to the Romanian box. The Romanian box.

Yes. Which is a dream. Right. Which is, which is, it's funny because I've read, I've read books about con men where they talk about the Romanian box. Right. And they talk about, like the newspaper articles talk about, like there's one newspaper article, like this is how naive the, just in general people were to cons, where the actual newspaper article, the guy that wrote it, the journalist actually says, you know, what was ridiculous about. the scam is that no mechanical no no was that

he was saying that that you know like had victor simply used the box himself he would have been able to make the money himself and it was like they're going on the logic right they're it's like are you sick you don't really think the box works like

the newspaper if you read old newspaper articles you realize just how insane they are they're just completely naive and they're look it's the same thing the original con man is a guy that walked around the city of New York and would bump in he was dressed nice he would bump into people and he would say hey um he would act like he knew them right and he would give some very general information and then he would convince them to give him their watch well watch back

watches back then even cheap watches were like a let's say in today's dollar they were like 1500 to a couple thousand dollars for a watch a watch was it's like asking for your cell phone same with shoes but go ahead yeah so so so you're saying, hey, so he would convince you, one, that we knew each other, two, yeah, you work here, oh, okay, I have an issue because I have a bunch of meetings, but my watch doesn't work. Can I borrow your watch and I'll come back here at five o'clock and give you a watch back? And he kept saying, you have confidence in me, right? You have confidence that I'll do that. Like, we're friends. You're confident that in my, in our friendship, right? What's the

guy's going to say? No, I don't know. I don't really remember you. He's like, look, after the conversation, he believes that he's got the mark convinced. that they know each other. They've been to parties together. And so the mark hands him his watch. And he leaves. He would get like 10, 15 people a day. And the whole thing, everybody said the same thing.

He kept saying confidence. Like, you're confident that I'll bring your watch back, right? So he became known as a confidence man. And it eventually became a con man because in newspapers back then, it was a typeset. You had to put the actual letters in the newspaper for them to print it. So somebody had to sit there and he didn't want to spell it confidence. So they, first they'd say confidence. And then throughout the rest of the article, they'd say con.

So a confidence man became con man. And then it's con man stuck. Anyway, I don't know about you. I couldn't walk in the mall right now and get somebody to give me their cell phone for the day. Yeah. For one call. Can I make a call? I don't know.

I don't feel good about that. It looked like you can run pretty fast. But back then, that's what I mean, it's just for real. So if people are believing anything. Yes. And believe it or not, that's still true today. Like, I've heard stories where I'm like, come on, man, nobody would fall for that. And they're like, oh, my God. Yeah, but the difference is, you know, if you talk about phone scams, you've got to call 100 people before you get one person who's unaware of the scam.

And then they might fall for it. But it's way more harder now than what's at then. I disagree. I disagree. I only disagree because you hear about so many scams. Like there's warning If you had If you have ever If you had ever used cash app And you send money to somebody new

They will tell you are you sure you know this person Before you actually send it Because people get scammed all the time They warn you at Western Union You're not sending money to somebody you don't know Do you? Right Because they want to tell you listen

You don't know this person Don't send There are the average It's unbelievable what people will believe that comes out of someone's mouth. At least back then it was face to face. Now it's on the phone. Right. But I'm saying also your ability

to, your ability to hit multiple people throughout the entire planet is way easier now. And you hear people are way more informed now than they ever were. Yes. And you'd still be scared. So you can still be scared.

So the Romanian box, if we can talk about that. Oh yeah, talk about the Romanian box. I thought we'd Go ahead. I didn't even realize what even didn't talk about. Well, it was an invention where he made this box and he would tell someone that it would counterfeit a $100 bill. Right.

Which I'm surprised it's not a $500 because $500,000 notes existed. $10,000 notes existed back then. So he would tell him, I guess it was a $100 bill is what they said. I think they say that because that's the only thing. But anyway, and he'd say it would reproduce a counterfeit $100 bill, but it would

take six hours to do so. So he has this. By the way, you can find the wooden boxes. Like they have pictures of the wooden boxes online. It wasn't even a mechanical. It didn't even have moving parts. This is back in like the 20s. I know, but I mean so I have a box and it has no moving

parts. No, they said it, no, it said it had gears in it. Like I'll watch one thing, they said it had gears in it. Like it had a bunch of junk in it, like it looked like it should do something, but it didn't. So you, you slipped up, he would get a real $100 bill and he'd slip it into the box. Like you

put it in a groove and you twist it and it takes the thing. So he would show him the gears and then he'd close it. And he'd show him the chemicals and he'd be like, look, here's how it works. And he explained how it works. And if you don't know anything, it probably sounded good if you were from the 1920s. He would twist the bill into it. And then he'd

say, we have to wait. He hangs out with you because it's like, I'm not going to leave the box here and I'm not going to leave. We're going to have to wait. So we wait six hours. We get to know each other. Yeah, beer, wine. When he's done, he then says, okay, it's been six hours. You know, then he twists the

the next knob and a bill comes out, right? And he keeps twisting it and the second bill comes out. So I've got my counterfeit and my real bill. My real bill. But he had two bills in there. Right. Make sure he matches up. Yeah.

Make sure the numbers match out. Right. So then he'd say, hey, now this is the counterfeit one. Let's go to the bank. And deposit it. Well, no, just give it to the, and they would walk into the stuff I read, said he would go to the clerk and say, look, I want to make sure this is a genuine $100 bill. And the clerk would look at it and they'd turn it over and they'd show somebody out.

They'd go, absolutely, that's genuine. They'd give it to him and he'd leave. Of course, it was genuine. It was a real bill. It's not a counterfeit bill. So then the guy would come back. He was selling these boxes for $10,000. So now you, even if you don't have $10,000, you go to your friends and your family and you get money and everything.

You come back and you give him the money and he leaves. What is it? What the heck's, I mean, who falls for that? But it's the same thing with like a bizop scam. Right. So you have a biz op, like I'm selling this business opportunity. And the thing is, is like, yeah, but if it was such a great business opportunity, why aren't you doing it? Right.

You know what I mean? Like you're selling them. Why aren't you doing it? Right. So you're telling me, if I give you $50,000, you're telling me I'm going to be making $5,000 a month. And 10 months I get my return back. And the opportunities are always too good to be true. It's like you could go to the bank and get the money for this.

You could do this. Right. But people fall for them. Yes. Their website's dedicated to it. I mean, it happens all the time. They believe that you don't have enough time. I don't have enough time.

I don't have the time. I don't have the manpower. I don't have the this. It will take too long to you know. But I can sell these very quickly. This is an opportunity for me. I'm going to sacrifice this so I can get something else. Right.

And I make money. Every time you do it, I make money. So it's a benefit. When you start selling all these, whatever you're selling, I make a couple cents off each one. But I make a ton of money off of that. Yeah. Yeah. You're never selling all of them.

And that works. That con does work. So, but the Romanian box, he does this con for a while. Like he's going, all you're selling these boxes over and all he's got to do is make a, get, it's get a box made. How hard is that? I just got to put some in mass production. Right. So you sell, look, you sell one a box a week at $10,000.

Back then. Yes. This guy's making a ton of money. Money. Nothing but money. And, um, okay, so the next one we're going to go over is, uh, this is the class. Yeah, this is the, this is the one that made him like a legend. Yes.

This is, and this morphed. into other big, big items. Oh, if you like that, I'll sell you, I'll sell you some land in the Everglades. Right. And they're like, there's all these scams that derive from this. Right. People just have the concept of this scam. Right.

They don't know the skill and the, the vulnerability, like how he exploited a distinct vulnerability, how he actually targeted a group that would make this work. Right. Because who would buy a landmark? Right. So the Eiffel Tower was put up during the World Fair in, I don't know, when it was 1890 or something. It was only supposed to stay up for like 10 or 15 years. Right.

Well, it ended up, it became kind of a landmark. People hated it when it was first put up, by the way. Like, the whole, like, Paris was like. What is that? Like, it's horrible. But it's been there for 10, 15 years. They start to go, okay, we went up in it. You can see the whole city.

People come here for that. They're making little statues of it. Like, okay, it's become a thing. right so but after you know it was 10 15 years after it was supposed to be taken down it's now in disrepair it's rusting the city's having to keep it up and there are articles talking about how there's kind of a debate like should we tear it down right well uh he sees these articles and what he decides is how like how would they tear it like yeah how would they tear it down what would they do this what and then he starts thinking you know

know what? They would sell it for scrap. They haven't made a decision, but if I come up with a letter on letterhead, so he comes up with a letter on letterhead stating that he is the, what is it, the deputy, I haven't written down here. He's the deputy director general of the post and telegraph department for the city of Paris. He then sends out these letters to all the scrap metal dealers like the top like seven or eight of them tells them it's all in confidence they need to meet at this one area you have to think back then this is how you did it you wrote a letter you told someone to be here they show up or they don't they write a letter back these things take weeks and weeks but like seven or eight of these guys show up at a at a meeting right and you know how hard

would it be to have them to rent an office building where they show up you know they you know you don't know what's what's government what's not they could show up in an hK you have a secretary there she's like oh yeah the deputy director like if you've ever had an HQ you can have people show up in an HQ you can rent a room you can rent a conference room they'll answer your phones they'll put your name on like on like the marquee like they'll put your name so when you walk in your name will be right along everybody a bunch of legitimate businesses that are there you talk to the secretary hi i'm so-and-so i'm here to meet with mr cox and they go oh Oh, are you Mr. So-and-so?

Yes, hold on. Have a seat. I'll go get Mr. Cox. You can be sitting in a rented room. She'll get you. You have no idea. This is not my secretary. This is a rental.

All of this is rented. Yes. You can rent a room. You can rent the conference room. And so you come out. You say, hey, John, what's going on? Are you, oh, hey, how are you? Yeah, I'm the deputy director.

Come on back in the conference room. You go back in the conference room. Marcy, the secretary comes in. She goes, hi, Mr. Johnson. Would you like some coffee with Mr. Cox? Yeah, yeah, go ahead. I'd like some coffee. And the, do you need anything?

I mean, look, so people are like, oh, this is his place. Right, right. This is where this is. So these guys show up at a location. There's eight of them. He's got pictures of the Eiffel Tower. He's got brochures. He's got letters.

This is clearly his office. And he has a whole plan laid out where he's explaining, look, I need to take bids from you guys. We're tearing the Eiffel Tower down. This is complete confidence. Like, if it was me, I'd have them all. a confidentiality agreement. Can't talk about what happened in this meeting. So they're like, okay, what is it?

We don't want the public to know, but we're going to sell this thing because we don't want a huge debate. We don't want the public to know. Which is awesome because that's targeting your audience. Perfect. I know. It's like anything else would be,

and the fact that he's asking for secrecy, it's kind of like, don't let anybody know because I don't want any official finding out of it. Right, but what's great is it makes sense. It makes sense why we don't want, because we don't want the public to be outraged. That's right.

We don't want a debate. We just want it sold done. They'll figure it out when you start taking the beams down. Yes, it works on the con and it works legitimately. It's beautifully put together. Right. So they come in. They all have a conversation. He has a whole plan laid out. They explain what's going on. He tells him you're going to have to take down the Eiffel Tower and you're going to have to dispose of all of it. And you're going to, you're bidding. So you're going to pay because you're going to make your money back on the scrap. But you also have to take it down. So they're like, it makes sense. scrap metal. Right. So he has this huge conversation. Good scrap metal.

The Eiffel Tower's made of good. Back then. Yeah. The older the metal, the more. Better. Yes. Just like when I wrote that, the book for Ephraim for Devoroli. Like the bullets he were selling were more powerful and a better metal grade than the stuff that was coming off the lines now because they were 40 years old.

Right. So anyway, this ends up, uh, what? ends up happening is uh he ends up figuring out one of the guys is super anxious to do this so he goes to that guy and he says look you know i'm just a public official that's the other great thing about it is that this works because you're not paying me like i'm just a public official like i don't care which one of you guys get just put your bids in you know you have two weeks to put in a bid whatever he's talking to him but one of the guys he kind of targets as his mark and he goes to him and he explains, look, it's a lot of money to be made here. I don't make very much money in my job.

Right. But if you were to give me an incentive, I could make sure you get the, you get the contract. And so the guy, the guy actually within a few days, he gives him $70,000 in cash as a bribe. Milking the greed of others. Yes. Telling someone, hey, cross the line and I got you. Right. It's the right thing to do. And you know what's so funny is like, it really, Do you remember, you remember, oh, God, what was it? Kevin White, the politician that I bribed. Oh, yes, yes. It's the same thing.

Like the conversation. I wish I had a camera in that room when I had that conversation. When I bribed this politician, I'm trying to, well, I'm trying to get him elected in my district so he can rezone all my single family. Yes. And I mean, I sat down with him. I'm like, look, so how much do you need? And he's like, well, with 15 grand, I can, I know I can, I just need that to run these spots.

And I don't have it. And I was like, I said, listen, bro. I said, you understand, this isn't a gift. Like, I give you 15 grand. You win this thing. You rezone. He's absolute. Like, we had this blatant, fraudulent conversation.

Like, once he, once the curtain got pulled back, he was all in. He was like, okay, all right. So he was like, yeah. He totally went from being this upper crust, um, legit guy to being just this scoundrel. cover this expense right he was like all of a sudden he went from me to to using his you know his upper class you know proper voice too all right so here we like he turned into this villain um so so uh victor gets this guy to give him 70 thousand dollars in cash right and he takes off now you tell me if you got ripped off for 70,000 in cash and what how do you explain that to the police like he

you know what I said he worked with another con man man they actually took off they went to, they went to the U.S., and they waited for it to hit the papers. Because they thought for sure it's going to hit the papers. I just sold the Elf Eiffel Tower. It's going to be in the newspapers. I just sold the Alphi. Nothing. So weeks and weeks go by, months go by.

And they're like, oh. So, you know, and this is the way I think, you know, comment think. Like, if I got you once, like, you're prime to be hit again. Like, you fell for it. Somebody felt, if this scam worked once. Because the guy. paid is probably the only one everybody else don't know what happened right nobody knows what happened he never went he was too embarrassed he never he until victor comes in and victor does the

whole thing he finds a whole other group of right so yeah so he had he hit the first tier the first time now he's going for the second tier scrap metal guys he gets all them they show up he does the same scam again then when he approaches the guy to do to um give him the bribe that guy now here's the problem you have two different versions of this. One version is he actually goes through with it. The guy pays him. Right. And then within hours or, somebody to get his metal. No, no. He starts to figure, he, he, he starts thinking something's wrong. Like, yes, she starts to put it to go, just give this guy money. I showed up at this office. Like, you don't know if he went back to the office and they said, oh, no, no, that

guy was just, that was just a rental. Like, you don't know what happened, but he eventually goes to, he does go to the government and say, hey, what's going on? Look, I'm doing this. This is legit, right? And they say, absolutely not. We're not doing that. We're not selling the Eiffel Tower. And then he goes straight to the cops and says, look, here's what happened.

He tells them everything that happens that happened. That hit the newspaper. When that hit the newspaper, the other guy comes forward, the first guy comes forward. Because now he realizes, okay, it's a scam. I'm not so embarrassed. I'm going to come forward. Well, the thing is, so two different, there's two different stories. One is that he actually got the money.

he got the money he takes off but the guy figures it out and goes to the authorities the second one is that he offers he he approaches him with the bribe the guy says he's going to do it but and he goes straight to the authorities at that point and he doesn't give him the money so

you don't know if he really got I've seen multiple accounts some say he did it and got away with it and then they catch him later some say he never got the money and they caught him right then and you have to think you don't even know how many times this guy's been arrested because he's using multiple if you i didn't even list all the all the different names he's used he's had like

something i think it was like you know it's the signature of the con man it that's why they list us for aliases like to to say to the judge this person can't be trusted of course he's got 50 he's got this guy had and i want to say because when they said it i remember thinking oh my god that's the same amount of alias as they said like it was like 47 different id uh different aliases and that he had like almost the same number i had and i remember thinking to myself I think that's the same number they said am I. I was like,

but alias is, here's what's funny. Alias is absolutely legal. Right. You, you can be known by whoever you want to be known by. It's when you use it

in furtherance of a crime that it becomes illegal. Alias is never illegal. If, okay, go ahead. Listen, not the debate. If I tell you,

my name is Jay-Z. That's fine. All right. So you're saying if I go and I commit, a crime, I go, hey, give me your wallet, I'm Jay-Z, right? So the aliases is illegal, the crime I commit

is illegal. That's what I said, if it's in furtherance of a crime, that's when it becomes kind of it's illegal. He was using an alias to, you know, to commit right, right. That's what I'm, like, aliases are absolutely legal. They, they present those to judges to make us look bad.

So he has all these different aliases, right? And not to say that he's not a con man, because no, he's not. He's not. Right. You know, But that's what they attach all the multiple aliases, you know. Oh, they always use. They always say these, there's always these inflammatory statements that they make. Like when I was in front of the judge, like the, they were talking about, you know, Mr. Cox had a, had a gun.

I said, I didn't have a gun. My girlfriend was ex-military. She had a gun, and that gun had actually been stolen. You didn't even find a gun. Like, you don't even, I never had a gun. Like, what do you? I've never had a gun, never had a gun in my possession when I was on the run. Mr. Cock was on the run with a weapon.

I'm looking at my lawyer and she's going, shh, shh, just don't say anything, don't say anything. And I understand. Here's the point I'm making. He's had over 50 identities. My first arrest, my first arrest, I had two aliases. Both aliases were at times when the police stopped me and they thought my middle name was my first name.

And I'm like, no, that's not my name. Because they made that mistake, they gave me an alias. So when I'm in court, they're like, you know, this guy has two aliases, Your Honor. You know, that's the whole point I'm making. They use it in a negative connotation. I know a guy that they brought up the fact that he, he's had three, he has three passports. And he's like, I was, the military had issued me one.

I had my own. And then when I changed branches to this other one, I had a, yeah, I could get another one. Right. He had a, well, he had one that was issued by like the state. He's another one that was issued because he was a diplomat. He was like, so I had a diplomat one. I had a U.S. passport one because he was representative at the U.S. He said, and I had my personal one.

he's like, they're all in my passport. They're all issued in my name. He has two forms of identification. Yeah, I have a driver's assistant and ID. What's going on? I have my college ID that I was that. But I say it and it sounds ominous. Of course, if you're already there, you're fuck.

Yeah, I mean, yeah. You're already a scumbag. It's a pile. So I was on her, she's saying I'm a level 17 scumbag. I'm only a level 15. Exactly. So it's a pile on. So yes, he had, he had multiple.

multiple aliens or he could have used his whole his real name all the time right well so but they grab him right like they grab him and they put him i don't know you know what they grab in this one they grab him he does get arrested he does get arrested and i think he goes uh he takes off so uh the second one escape you already well the escape the um no no uh the escape is after that. Oh, okay. So I think he either takes off from trial or he doesn't get caught or he gets caught. He talks his way out of somehow or another.

I don't think he does any jail time in this one. Right. No. What he actually does is after that, he ends up, the Al Capone one is kind of weird, where he actually goes to Al Capone and he says, he goes to Al Capone and he says Al Capone, give him like 50 grand. and tells him he's got like a swindle. He's like a stock swindle or something. Give me 50 grand and Al Capone gives him $50,000. That's so risky.

Right. Well, he hits, so he hands him 50. Well, yeah, first of all, well, first it's Al Capone. So he's like, I'm not going to rip you off. You guys will hunt me down and find me and kill me, right? It's not like it's now where there's 330 million people in the United States. There's, there's what, 10, 15 million people. And most of that's rule.

So it's fighting someone in a city isn't that difficult. well and anyway go ahead go ahead so i'm saying he takes the money he tells him he's got a scam he's running well he keeps the money for like a month or two he comes back two months later and he gives al capone his money back and he says the scam didn't work it fell through it's this i feel so bad i'm horrible i lost all my money in the scam i don't i know i can't not give you your money back here's your money i have nothing i'm broke he gives him a sob story and al capone gives him and he convinces al capone can you please give me five grand so i can start over i have nothing He gives him $5,000 because he's like, I'm so, he's so,

Al Capone is so impressed by the fact that he gave him the money back. Like, you could have taken off with the money. And you lost all your money, so you know, I feel bad about it. Here's $5,000. Of course, he's thinking he's going to come back and do the scam again. Like, hey, once I get everything arranged, I'll come back. But now he really trusts him. So he gives him five grand.

He takes off. So he rips off Al Capone for five grand. Which is still like a hundred grand now. Right. Al Capone. Al Capone, yeah. The killer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, risky.

A little risky, a little risky. That's like Robb's like Robin drug dealers, you know, kind of. Exactly. So, and can mind by this point, he's like a known, he's a known con man. I mean, he's, like, infamous at this point. So when he shows up to Al Capone, Al Capone, it'd be like me showing up talking to you about, look, we're going to do this. You totally believe anything. I say, you're like, I can look on the internet.

Like, this guy, this guy can do anything. this guy, if he says he could do it, he's going to do it. Right. You believe it, I could get the money. Right. So the point at, no, okay, I don't want to think about it. All right. Don't, don't.

All right. The next one he does is he does the Romanian box. He starts doing the Romanian box again. Right. So that's something he's always doing. This is a constant con of his. So he does it. Because it's, it's, I think he was perfected.

You think he's like, this is like, this is like this. Con is unbelievable. Right. Right. And what's great is that the person can't, once I get the 10 grand from you, you can't call the cops. Like, what are you going to do? You're going to bring in the box and say, you're, say, officer, I need to file a report. I'm so, this guy was supposed to have sold me a counterfeiting device and now I can't

illegally counterfeit this. I can't counterfeit. I thought I was counterfeiting the U.S. money. I want to be a counterfeiter. He screwed me over. Go find him. Go get my money back so I can get a counterfeit. Right.

Yeah. No, no. It's like the guy says, hey, I know about these two guys who are robbing banks. How do you know? I'm driving the getaway car. True, true. You know? So, um, all right. So what he does is, but here's the problem is he sells the Romanian box to a sheriff. Right. So. Turn that off. Yeah, I have one. I, like, I'm going to turn mine off too. So he sells the. Romanian box to a sheriff. You know, one of his many, many Romanian box. He sells it to a sheriff.

Right. The sheriff, the sheriff is actually bilking the county out of money. And he's going in the hole. So the sheriff's actually in a lot of trouble

himself. So he thinks I'm going to get this box from this shyster. Make the money I've stolen back. I've stolen so that I can, yeah, exactly. So I can put that back in the coffer so I don't end up getting in trouble. So he gives him the money. And then the sheriff gives him like 10 grand. He takes off, well, the sheriff figures out that it's all, that it's not working or that it doesn't work the way he says it works. It doesn't work at all. And he tracks him down in like another city. Like he tracks him to the other city, gets him,

grabs him. Victor actually convinces him that it's absolutely a mistake. And, you know, The real story is by this point, he'd actually started counterfeiting himself. He actually hires these two guys and they started a counterfeiting ring. And the reason the, and he actually used one of the counterfeited bills in the box. Instead of giving him a hundred bucks, being cheap, he ends up using a real counterfeit bill. He gets, I think he gets desperate. Right. It's something, well, obviously, he's, he's, he's, things are going wrong.

Right. Yeah, it does. Actually, I've heard that a few times that towards the end, he's blown through a ton of money, he's got a ton of expenses, he starts getting desperate. People are on to different scams at this point. And anyway, the cop figures out that it's a counterfeit bill and he realizes, oh, wow, this is, you know, this is bad. He tracks him down. Victor convinces him he's using the box wrong. I don't know.

No, that's when he gives him counterfeit money. He gives him counterfeit money that he's now making and says, here's a bunch of money that I've just made using the box. You can have it and tells him, look, you messed up on the box. You got to do this. got to do that and the cop buys it and leaves he goes to deposit some of that money in the bank they find out realize it's counterfeit they arrest the cop the cop that sparks an investigation into victor and when he gets eventually gets grabbed he's in the middle of another counter he's now counterfeiting money by the way they put so much money into circulation he and these guys his

counterfeiter guys it was the bills were so good that they put so much money into circulation that the Secret Service get on to it. So the Secret Service are already investigating this. But somehow another, the cop got caught trying to pass one of the counterfeit bills, because, of course, it becomes known. And Sparks an investigation. They track him down. They grab him.

He immediately, he says he didn't do anything wrong. He immediately turns on his, on it, huh? On the cop? Oh, he turns on, no, and his two accomplices, his two co-defendants. He turns on them immediately. Not that someone would do that because it's wrong. So he cooperates immediately, as most white-collar criminals do. So he grabs them, and they grab him.

The cops put him on trial. Now, in different versions, usually they say, you know, he pled guilty and got sentenced. But what really happens, he actually goes to trial. And during the trial, he thinks his co-defendant will not, isn't going to testify. He thinks it's all, it's all, like, the government's not going to. Right. Like, they're not going to bring him. He'll never testify.

When he gets on the stand and starts testifying, Victor stands up and says, guilty. I'm guilty. And he takes the plea. I'll take that plea. I'll take that plea we were talking about. We don't need him anymore. He's afraid.

He actually turns out that they think they were afraid. They believe he was afraid that his co-defendant was going to tell about other scams. Like, oh, that's nothing. He's this. He's doing that. So he's like, guilty, guilty. He takes the plea. Goes to Alcatraz.

with Al Capone So he ends up in Al Capone So Al Capone was in Alcatraz Yeah I thought he was in Atlanta He was all over the place But he was definitely in Alcatraz too I didn't know I was a federal

Because Alcatraz was federal Oh I didn't know that I didn't know that I've been to Alcatraz I mean on the tour Me too Yeah it's great creepy Hey I'm in a cell

What am I doing here Yeah Get me out of it. I wish I had pictures of me in the cell because, of course, you know, later on I would be in a cell. I was looking at this thing. Boy, this is horrible. These poor guys. Yeah.

I don't know what. I don't know how they could do that. Well, that guy did like 10, 12 years in here? Oh, that's horrible. And now when we go in there, you're like, hey, where's commissary? All right. Where does the guard count? Exactly.

I'm ready to lay in the bunk. Where's visitation? Can we see what visitation is? So, yeah, so he goes there. He's there with Al Capone. I'm sure that was an awkward conversation. About the five grand. What ends up happening is he fakes being sick.

Right. And he actually escapes from custody once. Not when he's in prison prior to that. He jumps bond. Then they recapture him. They call that escaping from custody? Like, you're home and like, you know what? Oh, yeah.

It's always, I'm not going to court. It's funny. Obscinding, absconding ends up being escape in the newspapers. You know what I'm saying? Like they can say absconding because nobody knows what he's got off. Yeah. So they catch him. Then they put him on trial.

Then he ends up saying, hey, look, you know, he's say, oh, guilty. Then they send him to Alcatraz. He goes to Alcatraz. He shouldn't have gone to Alcatraz, by the way. But he went because he had absconded before and because there were multiple crimes that he'd committed. So he's like a tier three or something. Like he should have gone to like a low level camp, but they were worried about him.

Right. So he goes there. He's there for, I don't know how long. But eventually he ends up, he ends up saying. saying he's like, I'm in pain. I have, you know, medical, medical, medical, I need medical attention and whatever. That goes on for like a year or so. He's sick for like a year or so, and they think he's faking. I know, I know what you're going to say. Wait a minute, even the BOP didn't take care of him. Medical? Yeah, my fault. Yeah, I wasn't thinking that wouldn't, that wouldn't happen.

Yeah, never. So after a year or so, they transfer him to a medical facility and he ends up dying. So he dies in custody, you know. That's all legends do. You know, Bernie Madoff died A few months Yes, all All legends do that Al Capone What's the

Theflon Don Teflon Don? Oh, you mean John Gotti I mean all the legends die in custody You know What's the Epstein?

Epstein Yeah Wait, wait, wait What's the other guy Lou Perlman? Lou Perlman, that's right That's right Well, you know what

We need to do One of these because I was doing research on Conman and I remember like when I saw this like I remember reading about this guy in prison about Conman this is a guy who created this is back in like the 1800s or seven yeah no like the 1800s he he convinces all this royalty in Scotland and regular people too that there's a new country has been formed in like South America or something and he starts selling land in South America and puts everybody on a boat and they send multiple boats where they go to, where's the mosquito coast? Is that in South America? I don't know, but I want to

say South America. So they go from Europe to South America. They land. They drop them off. They're like, well, this is where this little country is supposed to be. And they drop them off. And of course, they all get malaria and like 80% of them die. I mean, it's just, this guy is, he's responsible for 500 people dying on the on the shores of this fictitious country where he's made millions and millions um anyway they they explain he's he's like this ridiculous con man that's just despicable you can't believe oh they said when you looked at the proposed oh when you looked at the plot maps and you looked at the brochures everything he had this completely fictitious country that they said was amazing and he's selling it to like scottish or forget which country he's

selling but to like nobility and they're buying it They're getting on boats and they're going. He's like, and what's great is, yeah, well, they get there and they die. Like, are you serious? And he gets caught several times. He gets caught. He gets caught. He's never really imprisoned.

Like, he keeps kind of getting away with different things. You know, he's also dead. I mean, that's. Well, no, some of them come back, but it's just horrible. Yeah, but go ahead. So anyway. I knew he should try that on Jesus. But go ahead.

I'm sorry. Back to Victor. No politics, no religion. No, I don't know. Okay. Back to Victor. Okay. All right.

So Victor Lustick came up with, he had 10 rules, which I thought was funny because, you know, Frank Abagnale has con man rules too, which are in my book. I actually list them in the book. How's his different? They're not, they're very similar to this. That's what I was thinking. I kind of remember him. Well, the difference is that he, that Frank Abagnale talks about, well, you know what, it's actually. No, Frank Abadena, the only difference is he has one more where it's like it's research.

You know, research every single facet of the crime. He doesn't say it. He doesn't say that here. No. So you want to read his rules because I'm horrible. All right. It says number one is be a patient listener. Meaning like don't assume anything.

Don't try to extract anything. And that probably is so you don't appear to be anxious. Right. You know what I'm saying? So you don't give up like, like they don't feel like you're. leading them somewhere. Yeah, it's always easier to get money if you don't look. It's always easier to get money from people if you don't appear to need money.

Right. You know, like I don't want your money. Like, I mean, I can't tell you how many times people are trying to get me. Even now and back then, we're always trying to become partners with me or put up money. Or I've had people like, look, what could you do if I gave you like $10,000? It's like, I'm trying to give me $10,000? But I didn't appear to need money. Right.

I looked very legitimate. Like, I meet all this. criteria but go ahead all day long all i don't believe you're a patient listener i can be if it's to my benefit okay i'll buy that i'll buy that all right too right okay and never look bored come on you try to say you never look bored as soon as i go can i spend a minute talking about me all right glad you guys let's all right number three number three

all right so all right let the mark leave the mark to reveal their politics then agree with them so basically don't you don't want to be

counter their position you want to be able to stream with them so you want to let them reveal what they think about the world and how it's going and you want to be in total agreement

yeah I mean that's how easy is that it's like oh well you know what we're really religion, are you? And back then religion was a big deal. So if they said, oh. Religion is the next one, but yeah. Well, I'm sorry. Or politics. You know, oh, I'm a Democrat. And then they start talking about that. And all you have to do is go, you're absolutely on point.

Yeah. I agree. Really, it's like, oh, I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah. It's just bonding. This is. Yes. And that's what his is. It's kind of like in, well, I'll go through them first before I give up overall opinion. So number, number four is let them, let the mark reveal their religious views and then agree with them. And number five is be open, now this is unique, be open to discussing sex, but follow it up with the, only follow it up if the mark shows strong interest. So I imagine that's for women. Well, I, I, no, I mean, I'm assuming that like if the guy's like, ooh, you know, hey, check that chick out or hey, ooh, don't, you know, like, I don't get, I don't get this because like in today's society, like it's not something you commonly talk to another guy openly.

I guess some guys do but like it it's not like you're bringing it up but I guess if he brings it up like you can join in like he sees a like you said he sees a hot woman so then that's when you start talking

about women are being hot so you don't you see a woman you just got a glance but if he goes oh my God look at that butt I was just thinking the same thing so you don't so you don't seem

crass I guess if you don't lie it would be crass of so you don't turn to mark off illness All right. And that's another thing. Don't discuss illness unless the mark shows concern. So I mean.

So don't complain about how my back hurts or this or that or go on and on unless you mention it. And then he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I have a back problem too. And then you can have some kind of a kid. Like to me, this is all like connection. Make a connection. Correct. Don't pry into the mark's personal circumstances. Wait for them to reveal them to you.

Yeah. Never brag to your mark. Let your, let just let your important. importance become obvious. So, like, that's almost, bragging is not always boasting about what you have. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes it's about stretching out and letting them see your Rolex.

You know what I'm saying? Sometimes it's about stretching out and letting them see your Rolex. You know, or a necklace on your neck or revealing like, you know, this is a docheek of a. You know what I'm saying? Well, that's, that comes up too. That's another one right here. never appear unkept take pride in your appearance right so the bragging letting your importance become obvious is definitely has to be about letting them know that you have expensive things or expensive

taste right you know so but you can do that look let's face it you can the guys you always know the guys that have money or they pull up in a nice car but they never say you know hey check out my you know check out my you know my mercedes or oh yeah i just bought a new mercedes that I don't say anything, you know, people slowly start noticing, they notice he's wearing a Rolex. They notice that you slowly, if you're going to be spending kind of time with someone, you know, seasoning that relationship, working them over, you don't want to say, oh, bro, I'm doing good. I made, I made half a million dollars last year or I'm making this. I own this company.

I own this one. Like those guys, when they start telling me stuff like that, it's totally bragging. And I know, actually, I'm thinking about a guy that literally is very much. bragging like and he does have stuff um but he's constantly well i own this company i own that i'm thinking about opening another company i'm doing this and i'm it's always like it's odd right so yeah i would be more impressed if you know when you invited me over i walked in and you didn't say anything and let me you know kind of figure it out yeah as it's going that's to me look people that really have money really have money like they're not constantly bragging i mean

there are. There's always these Instagram guys. There's always these guys on YouTube who are making $20 million a month and it's outrageous. But for the most part, people that really, you know, Warren Buffett is not driving around in a half million dollar, you know, Lamborghini. He still lives in the same house. He's lived in for like 40-some odd years with his wife. I mean, still driving an old, you know, Chrysler or something. I mean, Bill Gates, same thing. These aren't flashy people. But you know, you wouldn't have to spend much time with Bill Gates to realize, Oh, my God. He's rich. Never get drunk. Always keep your wits about you. So don't get in a position where you might say something that gives away your true intentions or. Right. You get crazy and you.

Or you start behaving like someone who doesn't. Like, look, if you've got money and if you're someone who's educated and has money, then you're not getting into bar room fights. Right. You know, like, be someone that you want to hang out with. someone who's normal, someone who's not screaming and hollering, cussing at people. Like, that's somebody I want to hang out with. You don't want to alienate yourself. If you get drunk, people tend to alienate.

Correct. I know people that get drunk that I don't want to hang out with you. Like, I don't want to go anywhere. Why, you know, oh, let's go out and this. It's like, I actually like this guy. But when he gets drunk, it's like, I can't be around you. Yeah, you're kind of like, what is wrong? Yeah, you're right.

So, yeah, so I can see that. Like, all of these are endearing quality. These are qualities to make a connection. Well, and I think these are more, instead of the commandments of the con, it's kind of like more of the instructions. A commandment of the con would be like what you said, Abagnale, like do your research. You know what I'm saying? Know the possible outcomes. You know, keep the goal of the, you know, what you're trying to obtain.

Those are more commandments. These are more like the. But all of them, they all say, like he's known, he's known for the 10 commandments of the. con like that's that this is the list you know that's what he's known for i know you wouldn't say it like that but same thing with abignale he he his is very similar to this only the difference is um his more instructive it's more instructive you know an abgneil he probably just took this and condensed it into his own list is shorter but most of most of his is is um it's it's definitely about research like it's like research research research right it's it's more this is what

you should be doing this is kind of like this is how you should be active did. Right, right. Well, keep in mind too bad. Like, well, you know, that's the whole thing like that. Of course, this guy is a con man. But if you think about it, that's why when, you know, like I was think, oh, well, I'm a fraudster, but I'm saying con man. But the truth is he's a fraudster. Think about it. The only con he had where he really went in and just talked to you and people handed him money. Like to me, a con man is somebody who just talk, has a conversation with you. And you, they give you a story and you hand him a bunch of money. The only one he did that with was, the producer one, or he's a producer. Most of them had props. They had, so he's more of a fraudster. He's got these other props, because that's me. I go in the bank, I've got a good story. I look the part, but I also have all the documents to back it up.

Right. And that's why they'll say, oh, he's a fraudster. Well, it's still a con man. To me, fraudster is like a category. It's like a subcategory of, they're all con men. Scammers, con man. See, a con man, well, I can convince you to give me money. right right a fraudster is like i'm going to convince you that you owe me money or that you are

instructed to give me money so i'm going to present something to make you think i got the term i just you're obligated to give me money okay a con man will convince you to willingly give him money whereas a fraudster will make it look like you're obligated to give a money right as they present the documents you know what i'm saying all right well disagree i i i i yeah it's all kind it's it's semantics. Anyway, the point is that this was Victor Lustick. Yes. Um, what did I say the first time? Lusting. Lusting. Uh, lusting. Sorry. I don't know. I forgive you. All right. All right. So, you know, so that's it. So what? If you like the, if you like the video. Yeah. Yeah. So if you like the video, do us a favor and do me a favor and subscribe. Yes. And hit the like, hit the like button.

and share the video and leave a comment and see you. Yeah. That was a lot of Matt. A lot of what? Matt. What? Me? Yes.

Did I talk a lot more? You talked a lot more, yeah. Then you did? Well, I kept, like, when I'd stop, you'd be like, what? You'd look at me like, what? You're like, I'm talking. Don't interrupt. Oh, I'm sorry?

See, I don't even know I'd do it. I'm such a fucking... Because, like, so many times I'm like, ooh, I want to say this. And I'm like, wait, wait, he's going to slow down and he's going to slow down. Oh, no, I never slow down. I guess you just talk over.