Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Conman Reacts To His Dateline Episode (17 Years After)

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Conman Reacts To His Dateline Episode (17 Years After)

I thought I've got a chance, but the Secret Service, they had me. Can you go back in your mind and tell me what you're thinking at that point? I stole Scott's identity. His name was Gary Lee Sullivan, which was, in fact, one of his 30 or so fake IDs. Just to be clear, because it took multiple tries to describe this to Zach. This is a video about a Dateline episode that was done on me back in 2007. So this is not a new Dateline episode. This is, I had been on, I had taken off.

I was on the run for like three years. And Dateline had done a one hour, well, it's like a 40, 45 minute video or video TV show on me. And I just recently got a. copy of it and I am we are reviewing it so Zach and I are going to review it and I've watched it half-heartedly once Zach's never seen it I've never seen it I watched it when I was incarcerated really yeah when I was in car I watched it when it came out live and all the guys are like you know half the guys are like dang man yeah you know and I'm sitting there and people are saying stuff I'm like that's not true that's not true that's what you're thinking

yeah so in 2007 you'd been on the run for three years already 2000 i got arrested in the very end of 2006 yeah so i'd have been up so in 2003 i took off on the road oh the date line came out in 2007 right because i i remember they were i basically was thinking i'm going to leave the country because i knew they were doing this date line so i watched the first version of it after i'd been arrested i've been six months i've been arrested they came out with one right um then they interviewed me, they came and interviewed me and they recut it, this is the recut version. So there were two one-hour date lines. Wow. This is the after-arrest version. And after-the-full story. Yes, after I was incarcerated and they interviewed me,

they then went back and recut the original episode with this one. And then, of course, a couple years later, they came out with American greed, with an American greed one. All right. So this is what they consider the full story. Yes. This is. This is. This is. is Dateline's version of the full story, which is, this could go back, which is highly skewed based on my co-defendants, you know, their, really was their lawyer's version of their case. You know, they're trying to get a lesser sentence. They're trying to say all kinds of stuff like oh he's a horrible person and he this and that you know so it's kind of geared toward that it's really not that bad like when I first saw it I was horrified but when I first got arrested

they're calling me a con man in the newspapers and I'm like I'm not a con man and then you know then you know you get you kind of four years later three years later you're like yeah that was accurate yeah yeah you know you're not ready to face like the things you did you've justified him to such a degree that you're like I'm still a good person like nah you're not really An all-out hunt to catch a thief. I believe he's a genius. He's a master of disguise and of the million-dollar scam, cars, homes, diamonds, and cash.

It's a chess game, and every time he walks out, it's a checkmate. And his partners in crime? A string of young mothers with big dreams drawn into his shady schemes. Hold on, stop. A string of young mothers? Listen to me. Listen to me. At this time, and I'm sure you remember this.

Do you remember, you know how they have certain periods, right? Like, they'll be like five or six years where they push something, right? You know, it'll be like a, when it was said, like a something in the collective, right? Where they kind of put, single mothers was a big buzzword back then. Single mother. We have to protect single mothers. We have to look out for single mothers. Yes, I kind of remember that.

That was during this period of time. So the buzzword was single, that I was going around, this is what they're saying, that I was going around and I was finding single mothers. I was a Don Juan. I was a fat, short, balding Don Juan. Okay. So I'm long hair in one picture. Yeah, I know.

The pictures are horrible. So I'm a Don Juan that's convincing these women to fall in love with me. I then convince them to commit fraud for me. I then steal all the money. I leave them to go to prison. Yeah, but where are they getting the string? Did they ever go pass, what's her name, Halk? No, they do interview Alice and Arnold.

Was she a young mother that they got in trouble? Yes, she was. Yes, she was. Okay, well, there might be a, two is a string. No, there's not. There was also a girl named Jana Pote, had no children. I dated, listen, I dated if during this. Single would-be mother.

During this period of time, if there were, if I dated, let's say during this, let's say two-year period of time, I dated at least 10 or 12 girls, a couple of them. A couple of them had kids. First of all, do you, have you know any women that are in their 30s that don't have kids? I know one or two, but I mean, hey, but listen, a string. You're not helping at all. It's amazing what they put, consider a string. Anyway.

I had diamonds. I had a Rolex. He'd just give me cash for whatever I wanted. My Prince Charming, I thought. Was he Prince Charming or a wolf in designer clothing? While he made off with the loot, they were left holding the bag. I wanted to die inside because I knew everything was going to be exposed. That is, that's the Tennessee mother?

It's a crime that plays out like a best-selling book because he wrote the script himself. Could investigators ever find him? I remember thinking, I can't do this. Keith Morrison with Thief of Hearts. Thief of Hearts. That's a, that's a movie, bro. ID, I'm Lester Holt. This is a story about,

one smooth criminal. He was a master at wooing women, especially single mothers, accused of using these unsuspecting victims to wrangle millions of dollars from them. And for years, he managed to stay one step ahead of the law. When it comes to pulling off scams, this guy wrote the book. Here's Keith Morrison. Let's Keith Morrison. This guy, they know. Tampa. car in long-term parking. Christian knew the FBI would find it in a few days. Christian picked up the $4.5 million in cash and waited in line to board a 14-day cruise. It's the ultimate taboo to give away the ending of any book. Christian leaned against the railing and watched the shoreline slowly disappear.

But this book ends with a fugitive con man. a Florida cruise ship carrying a bag with millions in cash. I don't remember that story. So I wrote... This is the first arrest. Is that what it is? The one that you're on supervised release for? No.

I don't remember this. No, I didn't... None of this happened. This is a book I wrote. I wrote a book called The Associates. Oh. So what had happened was... What had happened was...

I had been reading a lot of John Grisham, right? Not really reading it. I would listen to it, you know, books on tape, books on CD. So I would listen to the audio version of lots of books. And I remember I used to think, this guy is making being a lawyer sound exciting. And it's not. I know plenty of lawyers back then. None of them said it's exciting.

So, and I thought if he can make that sound exciting, I should, I'm going to write a book. So I wrote a book called The Associate. Now, it was just a manuscript. Give it a few people read it. I never let, now it makes sense. Now, I never let anybody, I mean, a few people read it, but I'd never tried to get it published anything. And literally, I, at some point, it'd been read a few times. I really didn't know what else to do.

There was no self-publishing, no Amazon self-publishing back. It was in 2000. I wrote that book in, like, 2001. And I remember I took it, and I just, I put it in one of my, like, my credenza drawer. Stuff piled up on it. Didn't think about it. Didn't think about it again, until suddenly articles start coming out about how this con man wrote his life story, wrote about his life before it happened.

Well, it was as much my life as, you know, the Pelican brief is John Grisham's life. Right. Or the, the partner is, you know what I'm saying? Like, John Grisham is a lawyer who writes. Right. He writes about what he knows. I wrote about what I know, but what I knew. And what they did was they said, this was a blueprint of what you were going to do.

This was, but it really wasn't. Yeah, that, I remember you telling me that. And anyway, the fact that you never did most of that stuff doesn't matter. No, no, they don't care about that. You know, listen, were there similarities? Like, it's so funny, too, because they're like, I said, like, the guy's name was like Christian Locke. And, you know, it was always, they said it was Matt Cox, but just a little bit better,

a little bit taller, a little bit smoother. Ahead of the angry throng giving chase. But is this? book fiction or fact. As you're about to see, there are truths in this tall tale as bizarre as any novel. He felt like the modern-day Robinhead. He would steal from the rich and give to the poor. That was his thing.

And I believed in him. Oh. Oh. I can't do this the whole time. No. No. She believed in you, man. When a hard charging 20-something named Matthew Cox began making a name for himself.

as a mortgage broker. I always used to say to him, Matt, you never come across as a cell phone to me. Scott Cugna was a bank rep who thought the mortgage business a strange fit for Cox. For one thing, Cox was severely dyslexic. And he'd heard Matthew's stories about the special schools he attended, where teachers told him he should work with his hands, that he wasn't smart enough to do anything else. So Matthew Cox had studied art at the University of South Florida,

working on sculptures and developing a passion for even an obsession with painting. And he always had pictures he would show me like him in his office. Artistic guy. Very artistic. But now Cox, the artist, was attacking the mortgage world as he attacked his canvas and his life. As if he had something to prove. So corny. And remarkably, the man who's friends.

Look how round. I know. Where did they get all those pictures? I don't even have those pictures. I know. That's what I'm saying. To get it from your mom? What did he get them?

This is early Facebook in MySpace. Would you have them on there? No, I never had to have gotten them from your family. Matthew Cox. Christian J. Locke was 29 years old. Stood only 5 foot 7 inches tall. Dark brown hair, suntan's skin. He did show it to me and straight from Matt's mouth.

It was just about a guy that was going to basically go around the country, committing mortgage fraud. By the way, it's not what happens. I never said that because that's not what even happens in the book. he's now saying because I'm now going at this point when he's interviewed I'm on the run going around the country committing fraud so he says that but if you read the book the guy never leaves Tampa you know like I'd except for the cruise no that's at the very end he like gets away which clearly makes it unsimilar you honest you don't even know

if he gets away like when he gets away the way I end it is he get he's on the he's kind of like as Tampa's disappearing you there's a it like it leaves it so that you think that the FBI may have figured out where he was going. But he also leaves a ticket for the girl that he's in love with. And she's telling him, I'm not coming with you. But he leaves a ticket anyway. So at the very end, as, you know, Florida or Tampa is disappearing into the sunset, someone walks up behind him and says, you know, hey, you know, high Christian.

And he says, you know, like, well, no, something like, you know, whatever, I've been waiting. I've been waiting for you or I thought you might show up, something like that. And you don't know, is that the FBI or is that the girl? People would read it, they'd come. As soon as they'd read it, they'd come and they'd go, bro, who shows up at the end? Is it the chick or is it the FBI? So I was like, oh, I got something here. But here's what's funny about Scott.

I stole Scott's identity. I cashed, listen, I cash $400,000 in his name. And so, I feel. I feel bad about that. Of course. I feel bad about that. It's wrong. And I've tried to apologize to Scott.

I contacted him on Facebook. And then I had somebody that knows both of us met his wife. And his wife said, he was like, oh, he said, you know, Matt Cox is out, right? Has Scott talked to him? She says, no, he's tried to contact Scott a few times, but he didn't want to talk to him. So I've tried to say like, hey, bro, I'm sorry. And I kind of want to know what happened because my understanding is what happened when when eventually the I think of the secret service shows up to his house no I think at that point yeah it was a secret service they show up to his house and they go hey do you know this person they show him he goes yeah that's Matt Cox and they go have you heard from him he's like no why and they said well um he just cashed $400,000 worth of checks in your name

opened up multiple bank accounts and cash the checks in your name and he was like holy shit and they were like can you tell us anything and I remember the secret service agent said told me I don't she goes, we asked them, can you tell me anything? And he said, yeah, he goes, he's going to be, he's going to be extremely hard to catch. He said, he's, yeah, he said, he said, he is one of the most creative mortgage brokers I've ever met in my life. He is, and he's going to be very hard to catch. Wow. So this is that guy. This is Scott Cohner. So when I tell the story about actually cashing checks and stuff in his name, this is him. And then sail away. What did you think when he told you about the book? Well, I kind of knew.

New, he says, because from the day he met Cox, word was out in Tampa's everyone knows everybody mortgage world, that something, well, slippery was going on in Cox's office. He just knew because other people in the business would talk. Well, you know how Matt's office is. If you need a W-2, he'll make it always appear. If you need someone's Social Security card, he'll make it appear. So he wasn't just bending the rules. He was breaking them all. Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And just how badly Cox was breaking the rules became clear in the spring of 2001 when a warrant was issued for his arrest. I had first arrest, right? And people had told me, they're like, man, the cops were just here. Matt was just literally ran out the back door, jumped over the fence. None of that happened. I can't get over a fence. I'm five foot six. Worried.

It was clearly a rogue office. Oh, absolutely. suddenly that novel Matthew Cox had written didn't sound so far-fetched he was facing state and federal charges what had he done for starters he assumed a fake identity to get an $80,000 mortgage mortgage business which might have been the end of our little story except the convictions did not stop Matthew Cox. Well, he didn't work as a mortgage broker. Not exactly. But he was certainly back in the business.

He called himself a consultant. That's the way to ease back in. He was a skydiver, a daredevil who on the ground skirted the law, honed his schemes. He was able to fake good credit to buy literally dozens of Tampa properties, including this apartment building. They should live there. Cox left his distinctive mark in great swatches of vibrant color, painting huge murals all over the walls. Wow. Is that stuff still there, you know?

Yeah. And then, secretly, leaving almost no mark at all, according to investigators, he used his building like a burglar's. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Tool. Again, using a false name, he filed fake documents to make it appear it was paid off. He was a mortgage broker.

Part a million dollars on that property. Its reported Cox took out mortgages on this building worth nearly a million dollars, five times what it was worth. And then, Cox turned his charm. on this young he said all you need is someone to believe in you her name was Allison Arnold she was 29 will you stop she needed someone to believe in her what are you doing I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to exaggerate the narrative because she the first time I met her she had a loan so it was another mortgage company they called me. They said, listen, we got one of our brokers is trying to close a loan. We've sent

to like five different companies. We can't close it. We don't know what to do. Can you come by? Right. So this is me as a consultant. I drive by. I go, give me the file. I look at and she walks in. She goes, look, I don't know. I've done this and this. I boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I flip it, da, da, da, da, da. And I said, it's the appraisal. And she's like, yeah, why. I said, you guys got somebody to boost the appraisal. The comps are too far, blah, blah, blah. And she said, right. I said, okay, here's what we're going to do. And then I explained to her what what to do. Bam, bam, bam, bam, boom, send it to mortgage warehouse. It'll close. At first, I tried to get her to give me the file. And I'll give you a 500 box because I knew I could

charge like five grand. And she said, she tears up. She almost starts crying. She's like, you don't understand. I've been working on this for, I can't just take $500. And I was like, all right, here's what you do. And then, so then she closes it. Like a month later, she calls me, she's like, oh, really, it was two, three weeks later she calls. He's like, oh, my God, I closed it. I can't believe it. And I'm like, okay, she's like, I'm so, so I don't know how to thank you. I'm like, well, I have an idea. Like, let's go to, you know, you want to go to lunch? So we go to lunch. I flirt with her. She tells me, listen, I'm like, let's go to dinner. And she's like, I'm married. I'm like, how married are you? I'm like, how married are you? I'm like, how married are you? The judgment. The judgment. The judgment. No judgment. Absolutely no judgment. She's very sweet. I'm just commentary. The real problem is as sweet as she sounds, she really is. She's just a very sweet person. I know. I feel bad. I know. Listen, I still talk to her. Oh, well, good. And let me tell you how funny this. So when it all comes down

to it and she's indicted, like she knows she's going to jail, they don't arrest her right away. They're still looking for me. They're hoping to get me and I'll give them everybody, right? But they can't find me. She gets so frustrated. She goes to the U.S. Attorney. his office and says, I just want to plead guilty. I just want to plead guilty and go to jail. So she pleads guilty. They send in sort of like 30 months or something, or 20, 21 months or something. This is how naive she is. She calls Coleman Women's Camp. So the camp she's going to go, she calls and says, I'd like to arrange, what do you call it, like a tour? Right. And they go, a what? She said, I like to arrange a tour. I got sentenced there. I have to turn myself in in a few

months. I just, I'm nervous about where it is and how things work. So I'd like to come and have, and get a tour of the place so that I just feel more comfortable about what to expect. She says, can we arrange that? And they started laughing. She says, they started laughing and they went, no, Allison. They said, you don't get a tour. When you get here, we'll let you know how things work. And she said like a month or two later when I showed up. She was literally, when I showed up, they said, oh, Allison, how are you? And she was, do I know you? And they said, no, but you were the only person in 15 years that's ever called here and wanted a tour. So we do know of you. Right. Oh, so they've been laughing on her for months.

She's, you know, come on. She's, you know, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, unequipped for prison. All right. She did 2003 and miserable. Marriage on the Rocks, young son to care for. Her big dreams drowning in a sea of debt. He said, you could work for me, I'll pay for you to get your mortgage license, I'll pay for you to get divorced, I'll give you money for an apartment, I'll rent it for you, I'll furnish it, you'll be set. You can start a new life. The offer was on the table.

What did you do? I took him on his offer. Of course. I dropped my panties. And joined Cox's office as a loan processor. They were already getting divorced. But Matthew Cox is a lover? That lasted about a week.

That hurt. The relationship, it turned out, wasn't about sex or romance. There were lessons to be learned. He loved to go to the movies. What kind of movies do you like? Anything to do with a criminal activity. Oh, people only know what you tell them, girl. Catch me if you can. He loved that movie.

We went and saw this movie, The Italian Job. There are two kinds of thieves in this world. The ones who steal to enrich their lives. lives and the ones who steal to define their lives. Allison had seen how shady Cox's strategies were and how successful she was intrigued. He said that he wanted to help me in a way that would make me loyal to him. I've never said that in my life. Maybe during sex. Come on, just give it a chance.

...to do the illegal mortgages. And she convinced herself it wasn't actually bad, not evil. not evil. They were more like Robin Hood, Cox told her. The big fat insurance companies would cover the losses. Nobody would actually get hurt. And so she was willingly sucked in. Allison rented this home, forged a deed, and then just as Cox told her he'd done again and again filed phony paperwork to get three real mortgage loans, borrowing nearly $400,000 against the properties she didn't even own. Then she bought a house under a fake name, and incredibly, the social security number of

her own young son. Oh, that's not true. What you were doing was not just shady, but really illegal. I knew it was illegal. But it still felt like nobody was getting hurt? It felt like nobody was getting hurt, yeah. And Matt did it, and he got in trouble twice for exactly the same. same thing that I did. Exactly. So I thought, okay, there's a risk, but the risk to me was

I'll have a felony and a $1,000 fine. Okay, but I'll make $250,000. I didn't think it was a big deal. There they were, she thought. Bonnie and Clyde, real estate division. But soon she says he began to make her feel that she wasn't quite good enough or smart enough or attractive enough to play the role he said you're pretty in a trailer park kind of way he's like we're going to buy you some boobs i said no you're gonna buy you some boots i don't recall that exactly it does sound like something i'd say but not in a mean way you think she was pretty trailer park way um no i she's no she looks beyond trailer park yeah she's yeah yeah she's very upper middle class no i never got her breast that's what i don't understand. Like, that's what I don't understand. Like, that never happened. I may have joked around

about the trailer park thing. That I do. That is something I will joke around about. But in a loving way. By the summer of 2003, Matthew Cox had left a colorful mark in Tampa, Florida, from the murals that sprawled through his apartment building to his manuscript for a novel about real estate fraud. If everyone was going to treat him like a criminal, then it was damn sure. time he started acting like one. Then there were his dozens of walking massed homes and buildings, his Audi TT

sports car and designer clothes, and by Cox's side was a woman who thought she was living the fairy tale dream Allison. He felt like the modern day Robinhead. He would steal from the rich and give to the poor. That was his thing, and I believed in him. Of course, Allison Arnold wanted to believe.

enough to succumb to his advances. Leave her husband and break the law. What does she do beyond, I guess, the first mortgage? Dollars and leaving lenders holding the bag. She wanted it. What? Was he able to make your life successful? No.

He always just paid my mortgage. He just gave me enough to make a car payment. So I guess you still had your office at this time? No. Oh. Her son? Didn't matter to him. He liked feeling like he was living in a movie.

He wanted me to be the Bonnie and Clyde with him. He's like, why don't you just leave your son? It never happened. That didn't happen. Surely he would understand that. She was, of course, wrong. It was apparent that if you were not with Christian, you were against him.

And here was a consequence. Allison had been replaced. He answered my ad. He was very charming. It was funny. You didn't meet her online, did you? Yeah. No, no, not Allison.

That's Becky, yeah. Yeah. Okay. But what's funny is like they say, they say one that Allison and I dated for a week. So I dated for a week. And during this whole period of time, I ran a scam with you. You borrowed $400,000. I bought you, got you a house, or got you an apartment, got you a house, did all these things,

major mortgage payments, major car payments, like did all of these things. You got no money. You bought a house. You know, and like, and then at some point I said, I need you to leave your son and come with me on the run. I wasn't, didn't even need to go on the run. I wasn't even in trouble at this point. I'm on probation, but the FBI's not coming. So that doesn't even make sense, but it's fine.

Yeah. I get it. You're going to be sentenced. You're trying to get sympathy. Well, I mean, and they build up the story. Like, they're trying to make it dramatic. Like, going back to the book you wrote. Like, I'm coming.

Come on. Yeah, we've heard enough. But, and I get that maybe they're taking out of sequence. Maybe she said that differently. But by the time, I never asked her to go on the run with me that I could recall. There was no reason for, I was already dating Becky. I didn't even ask Becky to go on the run. I know.

I just, she showed up when I was packing my bags and begged to come with me. I'm curious. she admitted that she wasn't asked that she wanted to go. You know, she doesn't, bro. Of course. You know, it's designed to make me look as bad as possible. Not that I need to look all that good, but just accuracy. I'm just concerned about accuracy.

That's all. That's all. On Match.com, where right away, she confessed she was new in town, a single mother with a son named Bryce, that she was on the run from an addiction to video poker. Yeah, Becky. No, Becky. She was insecure. She was vulnerable.

She was perfect. He took her to dinner. They hit it off. So what did Matthew tell you that he did? He told me he owned his own company. He had about 20 people that worked for him that thought he was a god. They all wanted to be his friend. Rebecca was dazzled. When he asked her out again, she said, of course.

He took her to a movie, Matchstick Man. You heard Con Man? Con artist. Flim Flam Man, Matchstick Man, Loser, whatever you want to call to. He couldn't wait for it. us to get out of the movie. He said, that's small potatoes. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And then he proceeded to tell me he was on probation for mortgage fraud. When he told you that, what did you think? Well, I thought he was on probation. I thought,

okay, you know, he said, this happened two years ago. I'm almost off. But he's talking about how he breaks the law. I know. I know. I thought, you know, who am I to judge? You know, everybody has a pass. There was something about him irresistible. And he seemed to see just what he wanted in her. He hit me hard and fast as far as, like, whining and dining me. Do you think you seemed needy? How many days did you guys have? We did it about a month and a half before I went on the run.

Okay, okay. I'm thinking it was like two weeks or something. He and I live in a condo and let my son live in the one below it by himself. What? Come on. That doesn't even sound like something you would say. We barely know. We barely know each other.

We barely know each other. He'd just give me cash for what I wanted. My Prince Charming, I thought. Rebecca Hauck was mesmerized by these amazing stories. How to beat the system, get rich, and not hurt a living soul. He told me that his friend and him would create people. He'd make up a name, make a fake social security number. And so they would go get all these credit cards and these names, buy all this stuff,

And never pay it. You must have realized it was not legal. Yes. Oh, yeah, I did. And was that not a problem? It was, but by the time he started approaching me with this, I was so consumed with him. Rebecca Howe says she believed every word. I mean, listen, let's be honest, that I believe.

That I believe. You've seen me. I mean, I'm pretty amazing. So, so consuming that you couldn't even get rid of her. Go ahead. about wealth like she'd never experienced before. Neither she nor Matthew Cox, apparently, was aware that around Tampa a buzz was growing

about federal investigations. The law was on Cox's trail once again. And then one day, a tip-off. Someone who wrote for the paper sent his partner an article saying, we're on to you. This is going to be in the paper. And he knew he was already on. probation. But here's the twist that's truly bizarre. Cox, the aspiring novelist, had written

passages years earlier, that he now seemed to be living almost word for word in real life. Panic set in for the first time. How in the hell of the FBI gotten involved? Someone must have tipped them off. But who? He wouldn't go back to his house because he was afraid that they'd pick him up there. If he was going to get picked up again, he was going to prison. Matthew Cox was about to asked that same question again. The one he'd asked Allison Arnold. He's like, will you come with me? And this time, the answer would be yes.

I'm trying to see if that was Bayshore. That's Bayshore. I think it is. No, that looks like from Davis Island. Former business acquaintances like Scott Cugno were perplexed. He had 60 properties at that time, give or take. I don't know why they.

I guess he's the only one that would talk. Allison Arnold knew exactly what had happened. When I found out that he went on the run. Yeah, I like her Suzanne Somers-type voice. When I... I like to get a tour. After all, Cox's new Confederate Rebecca Hauke was willing to do whatever Allison was not. And especially, to leave her son, 13-year-old Bryce, and go on the run.

Don't look at me like that. But, you know, for them to say that, for them to say that, but they're trying to take all burden off of her. Right, yeah, but listen, listen, look. When I found out that he went on the run, I felt like I wanted to die inside because I knew everything was going to be exposed. Or would it?

After all, Cox's new Confederate Rebecca Hauke was willing to do whatever Allison was not, and especially, to leave her son, 13-year-old Bryce So listen. And go on the run. Bryce was actually going to visit my mom for Christmas. So I had already gotten him a ticket to go. So when you took him...

Oh, it was horrible. To the airport. I was just like crying. I wouldn't let him go. It's like, I'll be back in two weeks. What's going on? You know, because I was, you know, so upset. Days after the left.

So look. Here's what happened was she brought... She brought her son. Like, she brought her son to the airport and drops him off and sends him off. And she comes, you know, she comes back. And she's like, I want to come with you. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, you have parents here that, you know, love you.

And, and you've got a son, you know, you've got, you got a job. Like, you know, she worked at the, for a casino interest at the dog track. Right. I mean, you got a job. Like, what are you doing? What are you talking about? And she was, she said, I said, you know, what about your son? And she said, you don't understand.

She said, like, her, her son's father had actually, her ex-husband had. had actually raised Bryce. She just picked him up to come to Florida. So he came to Florida. She put him in school. And she's like, like, I wanted to try and kind of raise him. Like the ex-husband had got remarried, new kids. So she's like, let him come with me. So the ex-husband's like, okay, can you handle him? Absolutely. He goes to Florida with her, puts him in school. The kid has been picked up twice after curfew sneaking out. He's been caught smoking pot. And she's, smokes pot he's tealing her pot so 13 yeah so she's she's like look you don't understand she's like i put him on a plane he's going back anyway for christmas she's like i can't handle him he was going to go

back and stay after the school year he was i was going to send him back to live with his father anyway i can't handle him i work she's a full time she works full time right she's like i can't handle me he's 13 he's out of my out of you know uh it's out of my control i like i he's uncontrollable so she said The only difference now is this. I'm putting him on a plane now. I'm just not going to pick him up. You know, like he was going to go in a few months anyway. So she explains this whole thing to me.

And so I'm like, okay, I'm like, so I should have said no. And I did say no over and over again. But after a day or two, like think about it, if you're up and leaving everything and everybody you know, like I'm leaving my son, my ex-wife, which was, we were just very good friends, but, you know, she was a big part of my life at that time. She's living with somebody. They're engaged. But my parents, everything.

So I'm going to be alone. And I was okay with going and kind of being alone. But this girl's begging to come with me. And I remember never forget, bro. I'm like, you have a life here. Like it doesn't make sense for you to leave. Nobody's looking for you. She says, you don't even know why I live, why I moved here.

And I was like, what do you mean? She'd only been here a month or two. Right. She said, I used to work in Vegas. She said, for a lawyer. She says, the lawyer I was working for found out I'd embezzled like $20,000 from him. She lost it playing a gambling. So she has like a gambling addiction.

She goes, he found out and he said, I'm going to send you, I'm not going to call the police. I'm going to send you to, because he worked for a casino interest. There's a company I work for. I'm going to send you down there, down to Florida, and they'll give you a job. I've already called. He didn't want to call the police because he was sleeping with her. And he's married. So his fear was, I call the police and she gets arrested and it becomes a thing.

My wife's going to figure out that I'm sleeping with her. So here's what we're going to do. You don't owe me the money. I'm sending you down there. They paid for her to come down there. She brings Bryce with her. She meets me. I say, I'm going on the run.

And she says, look, she's like, you don't even know why I'm here. I'm here because she explains that whole thing. So while she's explaining it to me, I remember thinking, you're right. I don't know who you are. I don't know why you're like now that I do. like now you're an adulteress, thieving, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. You're checking the boxes? Check, check. I'm like, you're looking like a decent partner at this point where before you're this sweet, nice girl who's like a secretary. Right. And your, your concern is like what I'm going to be

doing, like I don't feel like having to justify that in your eyes. Correct. So let me go. But then she's like, oh, really? And you're like, oh, hmm. I'm good. Your asset, let's do it. Exactly. You just turned, exactly. She just turned into an asset. And I was like, and the big thing is also, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, you know, lie or make this seem like it wasn't a big factor. I don't have to be alone. You know, it's not that I, I'm unable to be alone because I was leaving no matter what. Like, she comes in on packing. And we hung out for the weekend because I had to run up all my credit cards, get out as much cash as I could. So, and I'm packing my stuff. And I waited until like the last minute, like Sunday night, because I figure they're going to raid my office.

office on Monday. First time, they don't work on weekends. They actually waited, rated it maybe two, three days later. But I just remember thinking I got to get out here before Monday. So we take off on Monday. But that was it. Like I was thinking, you know, there was multiple reasons now you're reasonable. And two, I don't have to be alone. And it would be easier. She was like, this will be way easier. And I have to explain to her. Look, I don't have any money. I got like 80 grand in cash. She's like, what are you going to do? I said, I'm going to go steal a few million dollars. That's what I'm going to go to. And she was like, well, I could help you. And I was like, She's like, wouldn't it be easier if you had help?

And I was like, it would be easier, but I don't need you. I can still do it. You know, it adds a little bit, a different level of difficulty, but I can still do it. But you're right. It was easier. So. And she's good cover. Yeah.

Yeah. And you've got somebody to open additional bank accounts. You have some, you know, there's lots of other things. Somebody to return phone calls, somebody to say, you know, if you call, if somebody's calling to verify your employment, she can answer, she can verify it. She can call back a woman as opposed to me. calling back trying to disguise my voice. Yeah, exactly.

All the way down the list, I mean, top the bottom. Right. And the bottom one, six. That's a, there is that. A hard-hitting expose outlining some of Cox's alleged. God, I'm wondering where to get all these pictures. Dubious deals. All those dozens of properties and so much more about Matthew Cox were not all that they seemed.

Law enforcement went into gear. warrants were issued. But a manhunt? No. And nobody in Tapa had the slightest idea that Matthew Cox and Rebecca Hock were in Atlanta. And soon we're setting up shop in this Tony apartment building. We had to get new identity, so we just went to dinner one night, made up a name. She became Grace Hudson. And Cox, well, he drove across the border to Alabama, walked into this DMV and the dyslexic artist who developed an amazing ability

to copy signatures. Is that Alabama? Did I say Alabama? Yeah. Let me say. Gerald Scott. Right. So I took,

listen to what he said, though. Like, he's making this up, like he's, he said he had a remarkable ability to forge signatures. Like, all you need is a forged signature to get somebody's license? It doesn't make sense.

Like, you know, it's like. Whoa, but he's talking to the general public, man. And they don't know any better. Right. Exactly. They don't, the intricacies, anyway, they don't concept the intricacies. Right. We do.

Like, if someone just told you, like, hey, I'm going to rob the bag. You're thinking, okay, who's driving a getaway car? You got the bag. You got the route. You got the plan with these. You know what I'm saying? You know, you think of all those things. He's talking to the general public who thinks, hey, I'm going to rob a bank.

Oh, well, let's go. Right. So, yeah. Well, and it's Scott Cugno. Yes. I had his information because I'd done a loan for him at one point. Ah. I just happened to keep it with me.

There you go. An old friend. I couldn't believe that this was happening. Cox, it turned out, had volunteered to handle Scott Cognos' mortgage a couple of years earlier. And now to his horror, Cugno discovered his former friend had used all that precious and secret personal information for his own dirty work. He took my identity and bought houses, a car, and some credit cards. How much did he steal using your name? I think it's like 50,000.

It's like 400,000. I cashed. I don't know how come. He didn't know that. ...crash course in fraud for first assignment. That book, Cox, had written, The Associates. Anyone can steal money and run, but disappearing forever is extremely difficult. They need driver's licenses and credit cards.

Did you know that he had written a book? No. And when I read it, I was just floored. I mean, I couldn't believe it. As we got on the run together, I saw how he did things, and it all referenced back to how the book was. Did she read the book? She did.

She didn't read the book, but they're leaning into the narrative. Just like this one, they did rent in an Atlanta suburb. Next, the fictional character opened accounts at several banks in the area to launder the cash that was to come. Cox did just that. Then, just as his character had, Cox forged a document and filed it at the courthouse, claiming the mortgage on the home was paid off.

And that he'd start hitting high-end lenders and telling them that he owned the property free and clear. Lenders, like John Holman, who had no idea he was playing the part of the fictional dupe. I loaned this fellow over $100,000 on a home that it turns out he didn't own. A private investor named Sam Dobrow also made a loan. You've lost something like $75,000, $80,000. Right. And my partner, who's in this with me, has another $50,000.

They all got paid back, by the record. Like, by the system? The system. Yeah. By the title company. Really, they should have some title company people sitting there. But those would be nameless people. You don't want the nameless people.

You want to put a face to it. Right. It was so funny, too, because when I was being sentenced, the one guy shows up, and the U.S. attorney is, uh, it talks about Mr. Holmes. He, you know, he lent Mr. Cox $100,000 and he lost $100,000 and he didn't have, he couldn't afford to lose that money. And so he leans into it. He says, just, what? All of it? Yeah. She says, they paid you back all of it. He's like, yeah, they paid me back all of it. And she's like, you didn't lose anything? And he goes, they're saying this at the time.

You're saying this right in front, you know, the microphone. She's like, you didn't lose anything? And he's like, it keep mind, this has got the whole courtroom's full of reporters. And he's like, no, she's like, did you have to hire a lawyer? He's like, yo, yeah, I did. She's, well, that was that cost. He goes, that was about $1,500. She's like, well, that's a lot of money.

You couldn't afford to lose $1,500, could you? He goes, no, no, I couldn't. No, I couldn't. No, I could. You just, it went from $100,000 to $1,500,000 to $1,500. $1,500, yeah. Not even 15,000. You know, which I feel bad now.

Of course. Well, you don't feel bad about it going that down. They hit Tallahassee, where Rebecca got more involved. Now it was she who claimed to own this house. She who went to the closing under another stolen identity. Was there some point at which he said, okay, you're in it as deep as I am? On our drive home, he's like, well, you're in it. You've done it.

So now you're Bonnie of Bonnie and Clyde. Yeah, yeah, I guess. This guy's so annoying. She didn't even like that. She didn't like that. Your mother. But as she got in deeper, things began to change. Even before Jamaica, the romance had cooled.

Cox, who at 5 feet 6, could never be mistaken for Brad Pitt or George Clooney. Look at that. That's not you. You'd be perfect if you just had some plastic surgery done. some plastic surgery done. Breast implants. You didn't want breast implants, right? Do you see the leading?

You didn't want them, right? Of course not. Motherfucker. You think I want bigger boobs so men would pay attention to me? Are you serious? No. Listen, the funny thing is, is that was her money. Like, she's like, like, I paid for him.

I didn't pay for him. You got part of the money. We just borrowed $50,000 or $100,000 or $300,000. You've got your chunk of money. she said, I'm getting boob job, a boob job. She didn't want them, Matt. She wanted to be insignificant. I don't think small-breasted women are in.

Well, that's how she wanted. And she's ruined. She's stuck with boobs now. Nice, perky attention-grabbing boobs. You're a monster. A $15,000 job at this plastic surgery center outside Atlanta. Why do you? Because I wanted him to want me.

I wanted him, because he kept telling me he wasn't physically attracted to me. Who says that? Who says that? Well, I've said that. No, still no. I just was flabbergasted. What do I have to do? I gave up my family, my life, my kid.

You know, I... Sometimes that makes me upset to hear... How much you mean to me when you're telling me I'm never going to be good enough for you. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop, stop. When you stop with the, we got to get through this. You stop with the judgment.

Like, I never said that. That's not true. I don't think you did say that. Okay. I don't think, listen, I, I had the same situation with Winter's mom. Right. I mean, I don't think. I know.

They hear things that, like, aren't true. Like, when did I say that? That's what you're thinking. And they fixate it as the truth. Right. So. Okay. But if she was in some ways trapped in this cage,

It was certainly a gilded one. So you lived in a great apartment. Drove a G35, infinity. Great clothes, makeup, hair. Exactly. Everything. But slowly, Rebecca Hock was coming to realize that despite all the trappings, life in the shadows,

Paul was looking over her shoulder, was not so glamorous after all. And things were heating up. Atlanta area lenders who'd been stiff, began alerting authorities about Cox's schemes. The number of victims, the number of stolen identities used, the number of prior mortgages that are erased. I'm pulling asleep here.

Who is that? That's, you know, that's, Gayle McKenzie in Atlanta. That's Gail? Very good. Very good. We once were within three weeks of capturing him. We were that close. The Fed seized bank accounts.

That doesn't count, of course. $1,000 of Cox's ill-gotten gains. Before he had a chance to get at it. Before he had a chance to launder it, yes. So he would have known you were pretty close at that point. He knew we were very close at that point. Federal agents say their real names are 35-year-old Matthew Cox. That was in the Tampa paper.

When I was in jail, I remember reading it going, this guy is the bomb. My picture was everywhere on the news, and I got really scared that. scared them. And yet, once again, Matthew Cox gave his pursuers the slip. He and Rebecca headed north to Columbia, South Carolina, where with a new stolen identity, Gary Sullivan, he bought this house. In our case, he closed on six loans in the span of a few days for our property and another house also closed on five to six loans within the span of a week.

Dr. Bruce Brown and his wife were leaving the army, selling their first home. when they met Cox. So we're talking about a dozen closings in a week? All with separate attorneys, separate real estate agents. And different identities in many. Different identities. The prankster and Christian couldn't help but add a flare to the forgeries. So brazen was Cox that on one mortgage he even was said to have signed the name

C Montgomery Burns. Excellent. Was it arrogance, hubris, Hubris. Maybe it was simple karma then that the luck which greased this long string of scams was about... I like those pictures. See that hairline? Yes. You're in the bank.

Oh yeah. Oh, they have pictures with me like looking right at the camera, like... Yes. Rebecca Howeck and the mortgage fraud mastermind Matthew Cox had been on the run for 18 months, weaving their way north from Tampa, suspected of juggling dozens of identities, including including those stolen from former acquaintances. I believe he's a genius. Forging documents, making money out of homes,

leaving homeowners and lenders fighting over the chaos. It's a chess game, and every time he walks out of closing, it's checkmate. And remember, Cox had also left behind the woman who'd become his first accomplice. And while Cox and his new partner ran, Alison Arnold was increasingly haunted by the crimes she'd helped commit. Just like a character in that novel Cox had written years before. They're really pushing the novel, huh? This poor girl was trapped in a spot who Beanie couldn't have gotten out of.

It was very possible she may spend the next 15 to 20 years in federal prison. I mean she couldn't take it anymore. And so she picked up the phone and called the FBI before the Bureau came to her. They would have knocked on my door and I didn't want that to happen. I wanted to get it over with. I knew that what goes to me. that what goes up must come down. But Matthew Cox had no such fear.

The step-by-step schemes that investigators said he'd laid out years earlier in a novel of all things had worked out perfectly. His take? Authorities estimated some $5 million. Does he think other people are stupid? Yeah, he thinks he's smarter than everybody. Do you see the leading? In spring of 2005, Rebecca was briefly alone, and her phone rang.

He called me and said, you may have to be on your own. I've just been picked up. I was distraught. I could not even fathom what would happen to me if he wasn't there. Finally. This is being trapped in the bank. A sharp-eyed court clerk in Columbia, South Carolina, had noticed Cox had put several mortgages on two houses in a matter of days.

A fraud alert was issued on one of his money laundering bank accounts. And here are the photos of Cox inside the very bank where his luck was about to run out. He was taken into custody just outside. He actually got taken to the police department, and they had him in custody. This is where they brought him to the Richland County Sheriff's Department in Columbia, South Carolina. The end of one audacious crime spree. Or was it? The man deputies were questioning told them his name was Gary Lee Sullivan,

which was, in fact, one of his 30 or so fake ID. It's Gary Lee Sullivan. And since there was no warrant... This is one of my first. favorite stories. $1.3 million. They let him go. Matthew Cox simply

walked away. How frustrating was that for you? Extremely frustrating. Assistant U.S. attorney, Gail McKenzie. So close. So very close. Cox is... Well, what's in here?

My favorite line. Her face, she knew, had shown up and wanted posters. And she'd recently caught Cox trolling the very spot where he'd found her match.com that could mean only one thing he was looking for a new accomplice

she was finished and as we're driving he's like we need to do this again I'm like no I'm not going to do this again I can't do this enough's enough it's over and I think that's when it clicked with him that I wasn't going to do it anymore oh wait none of that's true like none of that's true

no I'm done I'm getting a regular job that's not what happened getting my kid. No, not what I'm going back to broke, baby. What really happened was, like, you better not leave me, MF. Who the hell do you think you are? We get into, well, we get into an argument, and I'm like, look, I say we just split up the money, and she didn't want to split up the money.

I had like $600,000, and $500,000 or $600,000, I don't know what she kept. I know that I got $100,000 and left. You left it with $500? Yeah. I mean, we argued. I wanted, like, all of it. But then I also knew she was threatening like, hey, I'll call the police, I'll do this, I'll do that.

And, you know, going to prison, you know, everybody, when you tell them the story, everybody's like, why didn't you just kill her? And I'm like, I'm not a murderer. And I'm like, that's your go-to move? Buy a big suitcase. Isn't that weird? That is weird, like, because like in our life, that's just never an option. Right.

And then everybody else is like, I mean, that seems like the only answer. I don't. You talk to a drug dealer or, you know, like, like these real, you know, bank robbers and stuff, they're like, why didn't you just kill her? I'm like, well, what? And they're like, you buy a big, a big suitcase. You put her in the suitcase. You just wheel her into the, you know, it's like, what?

Wait, wait, what? How is that, how is that an option? They're like, that never even occurred to me. Exactly. That's weird. I hate it when that happened. But I don't want to say it didn't occur to me, but I didn't go with it. It didn't occur to you.

I know you didn't occur to you. It didn't occur to my, I thought my situation was worse, and it never occurred to me. It never occurred to me. I know I did. You keep bailing the chick out of, bailing her out, bailing her out. God, what a girl. Okay, let's just see you going. All right, we got to get through this, man.

To an argument, I had went and got in the bath, and he left, left everything. Once, he'd swept her off her feet, showered her with clothes and cash, diamonds, and she says made her his partner in crime. and now he was simply gone. Would you have stayed with him right through to the end? I had every intention when I left with him to. Stick it out no matter what. Go down in a blaze of glory.

Yeah. Really be Bonnie and Clyde. That was a romantic image in a way, wasn't it? I wanted to be loved unconditionally. I wanted, yeah. Why are you leading? You're leading the story. Now in Houston, where they had come to find new victims.

Instead, Rebecca settled into a quiet life on the lamb. She made new friends, changed her hair color, and once again picked a new name. What did they know you as? Rebecca Sue Hickey. And as Rebecca Sue Hickey in Houston, she says, she went straight. Can I mention something?

I like how they say she picked a new name. You mean she and I stole some identities? Is she grab on it? And we got, she got a license in that name and set herself up in that name. Like, you're used, you didn't, she, she chose it. You stole an identity and got a driver's life. Like, I'm not, I'm okay with it, but it's so funny. If I do it, it's stolen identity.

It's, you've ruined someone's life. If she does it, she just chose another name. Some random two words that she put together, but go ahead. There's a bartender attended cosmetology school. For nearly a year, she says, she lived and worked and pined for her son and waited. And then one day, in March 2006, the Secret Service came walking into that cosmetology school. By March 2006, Rebecca Howe had been on her own in Houston for nearly a year since the day fraud artist Matthew Cox drove out of her life.

Rebecca Sue Hickey, as she was known... Listen, I was up very late, so I'm sorry. But I'm still attentive. You're like, what the heck? I just felt like I was scared, but I felt this big relief. Like, you know what? Let's start it. Let's this is the beginning of the end.

Let me just get this done. Two and a half years after Rebecca Halk and Matthew Cox began papering the South with phony mortgages, stealing from property owners and banks and title companies from Florida to Georgia and South Carolina. That's the Tampa paper. Right.

Oh, that's the Atlanta Journal, but that's the same article. Odd, identity theft, money laundering, and conspiracy. She was sentenced to almost six years in federal prison. Six. order to pay back more than one million dollars. She sat down with us for an interview at the federal detention center in Atlanta.

I want to believe in love, but you got to love yourself. You can't let somebody else manipulate you the way then. You just turned over your life to him. Oh, it's completely my body, my life, my spirit, everything to him. Oh, my victim? I feel I am, but I also know that I'm responsible for what I did do. They told her to say that. They told her to say that.

Yeah, so you, yeah, in federal, and federal court, like a big part of your, you can get time off if you just say, I accept responsibility. Yes. You have to say, you can't go in there saying, well, I feel like I'm a victim. The judge will be like, yeah, you're losing your two points of acceptance of responsibility. Like, you're going to do another year. And she might want to pay all the people back before they pass. So it's, you know, it's. Maybe.

Whatever. Yeah, I know. Sure, I'm an adult. I made a bad decision that I know, and I, you know, I have to, I've hurt people, too, because of it. Do you know how many lives you and he have impoverished? How many financial lives are shown in turmoil? Stop. When he talks to me, he says, ruined.

You hurt a lot of people. With her, it's impoverished. First of all, who law, I can't even get into this. Like, it's not like, it's too extreme, but you'll be making excuses. I would be making excuse instead of taking responsibility. But the bottom line is this, is that, like, the Browns lost like $10,000 or $12,000. And granted, they should have, they had to, they paid an attorney like $10,000, and then they had to pay a mortgage payment. So I think they lost like $12,000.

So Dr. Brown is a doctor. I didn't impoverish him. Like, did it harm him? Did he have spent some money? Yes. And I feel bad about that. And I'm paying restitution. You know, the other one was a CPA who had his own CPA firm who had like 15 employees.

I have a hard time. He paid about $4,500. And then the other guy is the guy who lost $1,500. And you know what I'm saying? Who's a hard money lender. Does he interview you? Yeah. Okay.

That's going to be the good part. So it's important to pay attention to the different analogies that he uses on each. Do you know that? Yeah. I think about that a lot. But did you at the time? No, because he would make me believe that that's why their title companies are there to pay the people.

they're not going to be in trouble. Where does that money come from? Whose money is that? I know. And not knowing... Some big nameless corporation that nobody worries about. Exactly. A penny from every person he would say.

And not knowing so much about mortgage and mortgage fund. I believed him. Of course, Rebecca Hauk is not the only woman who fell for Matthew Cox. I trusted him with, you know, my life, basically. There was... I'm starting to dislike me. Well, at least you can join us. Amazon goes to turn herself into the FBI and offer a full confession,

pleading guilty to numerous charges, including conspiracy to commit bank fraud and identity theft. The result? She was ordered to pay $300,000 in restitution to her victims, and she was sentenced to two years behind bars. That's unbelievable it gave her that much time. price you paid yes it's worth it because um before turning myself in i was living more in prison than i do today do you want to hear something not funny what so there's like 15 14 15 people

indicted on my conspiracy on my um my indictment so like i'm named everybody else is just an unnamed co-conspirator you know they just do the initials like alice and ral a a you know Dave Walker, D.W. And the purpose of that is that these are people that are involved, but we don't have enough to get a grand jury to indict them, and they're waiting to catch me. Right. The only person out of all those people, now all of them cooperated, they came, all came in or said, look, I'll talk to you.

Matt did this, Matt did this, Matt did, like, I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. The only person that came forward, everybody else said, like, I don't, I knew he was doing stuff, but I didn't help him. The only person that came forward and said, listen, I was involved, I want to give a full confession. She's scared that they're going to show up one day and arrest her was Allison Arnold. Allison Arnold, out of all those people, is the only one that goes to jail because she went to the federal government and said, I'll confess, just let me get this over with. Everybody else that said, yo, bro, that lied to the FBI and said, well, I don't know what's going.

I don't know what he I know he was doing something over here I remember he came he asked me to sign a document I don't really remember exactly what it was he's my boss I didn't know what it was he just told me to sign it or that kind of bullshit like he was doing this he was doing it's all his fault I didn't do anything I was as shocked as anybody none of them go to go to prison get indicted anything all of them go on to work in real estate real estate attorney they're all still brokers everything she goes to prison so what is the Or it highlights the fact when lawyers tell you not to talk to the police and when you're, okay, tell us what happened and you make it better on yourself and how they add in, so if I were to give up like a Kobe, right? And so now I'm responsible for my drugs and Kobe's drugs. So then if Kobe gives up, you know, someone else, then I'm responsible for my drugs, Kobe drugs, and whoever's drugs. Kobe. It's just like when you do that, they just add on. So never, never talk to them. I mean, this is what we learned in the Fed system, that it's all about who talks. Keep in mind, too, the thing with her is that when she went in, she went in with a lawyer, and they told her, like, we can't promise you this.

Oh, my God. What were they not promising her? Well, that we'll file a 5K1 and you won't have to do any prison time. Like, don't worry. Nobody wants you to go to prison. You're the one who's coming forward. You're helping us. we don't want to nobody wants you to go to prison but did she help him or she just told on what she did well she told what i did and what she did and what everybody else did too by the way with her alone they could have arrested these other people she told them what everybody did the point is is that that what happens is they changed uh prosecutors and when they changed prosecutors the new u.s. attorney said that deals off send her to prison because it wasn't a promise it wasn't a promise

You didn't have anything in writing. We said, we don't want you to jail. We will file a 5K1 once this guy's arrested, once all these people did it. And with your help, we can do that. And she said, okay. But then at some point, he said, yeah, I'm not going to, I'm not, they grabbed Cox. We're not going to go after any of these people. She's already pled guilty, send her to prison.

And she's saying, I wasn't supposed to go to prison. I'm not supposed to go to prison. You said, I didn't have to go to prison. They said, well, we didn't promise you. We said we try. Two years. Yeah. I couldn't imagine what it must be like to be Matt,

living under a completely different alias and it was great damaging more people hurting more people stealing from middle class america i don't know about that part but you didn't ever have fear of getting caught like no except for when like the handcuffs were on me oh well and then i but then i talked my way out of them they took them off me i was like oh i got you who was that that's uh that is the tennessee girl yes that is oh my god i um america amanda That was Amanda. Amanda Gardner. Now, one thing remained to catch your accomplice in fraud, the accused conman behind it all, Matthew Cox. Can you explain the hair? What is that picture of you with the long hair?

I was balding, and those are photos of me before I left, or while I was, some of them were on the run, but before I had a hair transplant. So, you know, I'm balding way back here, and I got this little patch of hair, so I'm parting it to try and cover the balding. And then, you know, once you've got a couple hundred thousand, it's like, why wouldn't I, why don't I just get a hair transplant? You know, I'd be honest, you know, the, is Becky, I mean, look, so Becky and, so Becky and, oh, God, Allison, Becky and Allison, like, I, I'd be honest. Eh, I liked, I liked, I liked Allison. She was, she was very sweet. Becky, eh, she drove me nuts, bro. She was bipolar. She was a maniac. Like, she was a pain in the ass. absolutely Amanda I was absolutely in love with Amanda I mean just like just and for years later sitting in prison heartbroken heartbroken yeah she wouldn't even talk to you no no I got one letter one letter from her she's married now she's married with some guy and you know like several

of these programs have reached out to her trying to talk to her she won't talk to him probably for good reason it's the money in the game U.S. Attorney Gail McKenzie's manhound had now gone nationwide Law enforcement was alerted to his many aliases, and the habits that could give him away. His love for vanilla lattes at Starbucks, movies about criminals, the habit of painting huge murals in a very specific style, the method using young single mothers as accomplices. More than likely than some other young woman is setting herself up for a stay in a federal prison somewhere. That is a real possibility.

And then, out of the blue, there was news. On the very week, Rebecca Hauke was sentenced in Atlanta. A tip from Nashville, Tennessee, just 200 miles away. It was a babysitter who said she'd heard something about a man she'd worked for. He called himself Joseph Carter. There's more of it, she said. He lived with this single mother. Secret surface agents scrambled to his home in Nashville and found it was empty.

Matthew Cox was gone. Where was Matthew Cox? Did somebody tipped him off? Well, in fact, the truth was too strange to make up. Just days before, Cox had learned what it was like to become the victim of a crime. Armed robbers had burst into his house. It had stolen watches, cash, a car, an infinity, of course. And Cox became so worried that somebody was after him

that he scooped up his new girlfriend and her young son and moved into a hotel. He said he would take care of me. He said he would take care of my. They did interview her. ...that he would try his best to make sure that we were happy. Her name is Amanda Gardner. She said she and Cox, or Carter, as she knew him, had set up a home remodel.

Carter was your first name? The Nashville Restoration Project. Check out this remodeled home. Recognize the murals on the wall? I was completely and totally dumbstruck in love. Amanda had settled down with this man. Who took it to go. Greece on vacation, love crime movies, vanilla lattes from Starbucks. And sure enough,

asked her to have breast enhancement surgery. Untrue. Did she? Did she have, no? No, because I think he said that. Like he said that, she never did. On November 16, 2006, just like that, Matthew Cox was caught, taken down by Secret Service agents who'd been searching for him for two long years. Every time they said my name, I felt like I was going to, my legs were going to drop out from underneath me.

This is unlocked up in the U.S. Marshall's holdover. Oh my God. You weren't cuffed when you talked to him? No, they took them off. I remember thinking, you know, had it just been the regular police, I probably would have thought I've got a chance. But the Secret Service, they had me. they had me

had him he says because Amanda had discovered his true identity then somehow let the secret slip to a friend I was curious to know why you didn't just leave the country run away

and you know kept doing those crazy murals which was so obviously you I love those murals Can you go back in your mind and tell me what you're thinking at that point? Like, how long were you in jail? Listen, I'd been in jail at least about seven, maybe eight months by then, because to do this interview, they had to move me. The U.S. attorney had to have me move from Union City County Jail, right, or Union City Jail to the

Atlanta City Detention Center because Union City wouldn't let them interview me. But the, so they moved me to the, to Atlanta City Detention Center. They would let him interview me. So you knew it was coming. They're asking you. Oh, no. The U.S. Keep mind.

The U.S. Attorney is the one who asked me to be interviewed. Like, I want him to be interviewed by Dateline because then they're going to play at the episode again. Like, keep behind the first time, the first episode. That chick wanted you to be interviewed. Yeah, the U.S. Attorney, Gail McKenzie.

So keep in mind, she, the first time. they end it with he's still on the run. So that doesn't make him look good, does it? This way, you just heard all that and guess what? They got him. She looks pretty good now. So what were you thinking? I'm thinking, first of all, this guy was a douchebag, by the way.

Complete douchebag. And the way he talked was, he talked to just like in person, like when the cameras are on or off, he really talks like that. Hello, Matthew. How are you? you know he kept saying like like in the uh what's the second movie poltergeist where the old guy yeah the old creepy guy yes yes oh hello i mean just just weird it was just you know he's and he says these ridiculous things even the cameras weren't on he was saying weird stuff he would say

you know it's very i don't know it's corny true crime to me it's like it's very corny he's a corny guy and he would say these things and over the whole thing just like when he's talking to me and interviewing me, he's like, you've hurt a lot of people. And I went, well, I mean, I financially inconvenience and people, I haven't physically harmed anyone. He goes, you've hurt a lot of people. And I went, what? I didn't physically hurt anybody.

And he goes, you hurt a lot of people. And I go, I go, okay, well, you seem to be hung up on hurt. I said, so, okay, I go, I go, yes, I've hurt a lot of, I go, yes, I've hurt a lot of people. And they cut all that out. It becomes, you've hurt a lot of people. And I go, yes, I've heard a lot of people. Oh, my God. The chopping job.

Oh, my God. I think that might be an American greed. That may be here. You know, I left the country a few times and came back. I remember every place I thought that I would be able to disappear to, I remember being terrified that if I went there, You know, you go to Mexico and a gringo shows up with a million dollars in cash, he's going to get it taken away from him. So Cox, against his better instincts, stayed in Nashville, fell in love.

Tried to go legit, he says, but fell back to his old money-making scenes. Nashville Restoration Project. Which by now were as comfortable as old shoes. Did you ever stop going to Starbucks? No. What was the drink? I forget now. Vinti vanilla latte with five raw sugars.

There you go. They don't serve those here. So it's possible to do without them? It is. Yeah, it's possible to do without all kinds of things. You'd be surprised. That's a shell of the old mad. Oh, God, right?

Oh, I was crushed, bro. His eyes light up when he talks about that close call back in Columbia, South Carolina, when he and Rebecca had briefly separated, and police picked him up on suspicion of bank fraud, and were one simple question away from ending his long run. He had been banking that day, illegally of course, using stolen ID. And he comes back and he says, yep, he's got a valid driver's license in Nevada. And he said everything checks out.

He was, well, it says he's 5-11. And they all, all of them look at me at the same time. And I'm clearly not 5-11. And I said, well, I said, with a good pair of shoes. And they all started laughing. I gave him my business card, told him to call me as soon as he, as soon as he found out anything. I got into my vehicle. I went to two more banks, got out some more money. They cut the whole part about me going to being brought to the police station.

South Carolina, never to go back. How did that feel driving away? I know my lawyer doesn't want me to say this, but I was very happy. Granted when we left, there were $700,000 in the bank, but that $700,000 was nothing compared to walking away. But why did he do it? With all his talent at his head for numbers, in fact, said Cox, he'd gotten in over his head. He should have declared bankruptcy after his initial misdeeds back in Florida. But he'd learned about all these tempting loopholes in mortgage rules

and discovered that lots of people were all too willing to give him sensitive information. They would give me where they were born and their mother's maiden name, and there's just no reason to give that information out. Did you ever say, okay, I know I'm about to do something that's really extremely wrong, immoral, and makes me a bad person, but I'm going to do it anyway? Yes, I'd love to say, oh, no, that didn't cross my mind. Of course it crossed your mind. But it obviously, it crossed my mind.

And my whole justification for that was the banks will pay back the money or the title companies will pay it back, and nobody will lose any significant amount of money. and ultimately no one will really get hurt other than title companies. Those were the types of things that I would tell myself that helped me sleep better at night.

And it still didn't work. I still didn't sleep very well. Those are pretty convoluted rationalizations. Yeah, well, I was taking a lot of Xanax. That helped. What? Without a doubt, I had a prescription for Xanax. I've always had a prescription.

I did not know that. I don't think I was taking a lot of it. I don't think it was taken a lot of it. No. You just said it. Look. Look. I know I've hurt some people. Look.

But I'm about to do something that's really extremely wrong, immoral, and makes me a... This is where he does the hurt thing. He kind of, they... Inconvenience, quite a few people. Inconvenience is a very small word. But then hurt, physically, physically hurt. I didn't say physically. I know I've hurt some people. Did say physically.

But I haven't stolen any old ladies pension funds or anything along those lines. I didn't think I was going to hurt any individuals. Or was that your rationalization again? You decided you could think that, even though maybe... At the time, I really believed that. Seeing how things played out, I realized it didn't happen. There was, by the way, one very personal message Cox had for us. Remember what Allison and Rebecca said that he manipulated them,

that he demanded they have breast implants and leave their kids? The women claimed Cox were willing partners in all of that, aware of the risks. And that title date line gave him, Thief of Hearts? Cox laughed about that. Explained he had plenty of male accomplices, too. But a few things were not a laughing matter.

His father, for one. He's going to go to the sentencing, which, you know, is great. And that, you know, my dad's going to go to my sentencing. That just seems so horrible. Can we stop for a second? Sure.

Yeah, of course. Why did that touch you? Just my dad, just for a dad. I guess I'm hoping someday he'll want to know who his father is. Oh, he's talking about your son. No, no, he's talking about my dad. And then your son. Yeah.

But claiming she did nothing wrong, a woman he says he still loves. I'm hoping that'll pass eventually. Because I haven't heard from her lately. But I'm sure eventually all things. heal with time. And time is what Matthew Cox will have fun. Ugly. Yeah, it's bad.

He's an ugly thing, man. He hadn't meant for anyone to get hurt. People have been hurt. Authorities do consider him a criminal. He was free and about to start a new adventure, a new life, in a new country. There'll be no sailing away on an ocean-bound cruise ship, no millions in a cash, no girl by his side. Instead, only a guilty

plea to dozens of counts of mortgage and bank of sports fraud, ID theft, and you shook his head. He is, finally. Bro, what am I supposed to do? Justin Matthew Cox. And his ambition. What do you do? Tell him go fuck yourself. He's got to edit this thing. Hoping to get a good

cut. And I'll go on with my life and maybe I'll be an arm. And you didn't. But, that's probably the only thing I'll be able to do. It probably could have been worse. Be equipped to get a job at McDonald's. I wanted to get a job at McDonald's when I got out.

I don't think they'd let me work the cash register. In November 2007, Matthew Cox was sentenced to 26 years behind bars. Ouch! That's all for Dateline on ID. Poor guy, I didn't deserve that. Thanks for watching. Seems unreasonable. So the first thing I want to say is seeing you there, like I would have presumed that that was like days after your arrest.

That's seven, eight months after my. my arrest. I know. But, like, I, like, I can, like, knowing you all this time, I can see the, the hurt, not just on the part about your dad, but just the hurt of the whole situation of having to talk about it. It's like, I, I could tell you were still processing everything. Bro, I got it. I had, like, I hadn't been sentenced yet and hadn't been to a prison yet. Like, all the scary stuff is still, it was still ahead of me, you know? So you're still, like, look, like, like all my cockiness and arrogance, even what's left of, it's gone, gone. It's dimmed. It was there. It was just dim. Yeah, yeah. I'm like totally trying to be like humble and

and soft spoken. Like all the things I'm really not. Like that's, that's what I was making. The worst thing was when I start kind of going back and forth with him on, okay, well, I haven't hurt anybody. You know what I'm saying? When I start doing that, I'm like, well, I haven't physically hurt anyway. When we go back and forth, my attorney is keeping on the other. side of the camera. And the look on her face is just like, what are you doing? Just say you've hurt people move on. You're like, like, when I walked out, she's like, I'm like, oh, man, I said that hurt thing. And you're, because she came up, saw me later. I'm like, I shouldn't have said anything about her. She's like, no, you shouldn't have. She said, I'm sure it'll be fine.

Of course, you know, when they cut it up, anything decent that I said was kind of cut up. Of course. So. Absolutely. Absolutely. I, um, all those. I learned early that all those interviews and all that news stuff is like done for sensationalism right you know what i'm saying and for the moral arch and as you said he's softened words for her but um yeah like that that's what kind of touched me is seeing like you on the fresh end because like i idolized you before i even met you because of what you had done and to see you like fresh into the the remorse part is is i don't know it's it's it's very humanizing for me you know and because that matt cox it almost makes you seem human it's what i just heard that matt cox like only existed for a small amount of time

very brief right it was just up to maybe a couple days after sentencing that wasn't even the Matt I met when I was at Coleman, but go ahead. You know what's funny is, like, my scam where I made the fake people and borrowed, like, they're like he got away of like $5 million, right? Like the $11.5 million, that scam, they don't even talk about it. No. You know? They talk about, oh, you got like a million here.

He was refinancing houses. He's running a little scam here, a little scam, little scam there. You know, they don't talk about like that massive scam because I think that's, I think that's too many people. Maybe it's too many people. Maybe it's too complex for a very short. Like, it's better, it's better for them to focus on these individual people. And like I said, the buzzword was single female or single mothers.

So they had this guy who's getting single mothers to like, let's go with, that's the angle, not, hey, he's pulling off real estate scams. That's boring. And it's hard to explain. Well, because Dateline was more of the human side, whereas American greed was more of the scam side. So this was more about the impact on people. and you know what I'm saying they didn't go in depth

about what you did at all like whereas American greed like you were signing mortgages for houses and you know what I'm saying they were taking it step by step and this one is just kind of like well you took this person's information and you used it and then you had this like

so it was it was trying to get on a personal level we'll have to American greed have we done American greed I have not seen that I got American greed too no well let's do it Hey I really appreciate you guys watching the video

do me a favor. If you liked it, subscribe, hit the bell so you get notified. Also, if you want to see the entire 44-minute Dateline episode without Zach and I's commentary, and you just want to watch it, please consider joining my Patreon. You can join, you can watch the entire thing on Patreon. Thank you very much. It's only $10. I really do appreciate you guys watching. See you.