Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Credit Card Fraudster Reveals All...

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

Credit Card Fraudster Reveals All...

As we're at the airport in line, she says, I just want to say this for the record. If anything happens, I want it known that I was absolutely against this trip from the beginning. Hey, this is Matt Cox. And this is Zach. And we're doing a podcast real quick. Well, not real quick. I mean, that's how you brought it up. I mean, you're like, hey, stop by, do something.

Yeah. So we're going to, we're going to go over Zach's story, which you guys have been, people have been going nuts for and saying, hey, I want to hear his story. He's got to tell his whole story because we've been, you know, you get a little bit here, a little bit there. And I talk to him. And he's got an outline. And this is really the problem is that he's been like, yeah, I know I got to write everything down because I forget. And then I forget how things happen in order. So I kind of like I forget. I'm like, oh, man, wait a minute. No, wait. He was arrested before that. So he wrote an out, sat down with Colby and I. wrote an entire outline so he could actually go over there. Well, I just, I hit the high spots. You know, there's a, there's a lot of story in between. So I just think I covered a high spot and I'll just cover the story when requested. Yeah, if it comes up, yeah. Well, that's how I am. Like, if I could sit down and talk for 10 hours, if I told you like the whole story and every single time, it'd be a 10 hours. Right. You know, you want 10 hours and you get my book. I understood. All right. So, um, you should do. All right. So outline, we'll go bullet point by bullet point. So I was, I was born in Tampa, Florida, so I'm originally from this area.

I didn't know that. Yeah, the mother, father. I thought you were born in Washington. No, no. Live there like about six years, and then we came back to Florida. So, but, all right, I didn't know that. So born in Tampa, Florida, lived with my mother, father, one brother, two sisters. I was the, the baby of the bunch. I was really the, like, the accident. You know, I came my oldest. I see that. My oldest sister is like seven years older to me.

So when I'm like five or six, they're like 13, 14, wanting to go out. And they were always stuck babysitting me as kind of the earlier memories that I have. Elementary school, I was kind of a class clown. I used to like to act out, get a lot of attention. And I guess that was to make up for the fact that I was the baby kid. You know, in high school, I kind of played football and was a, nerd. I used to play chess. I was in drama class and in speech. So I used to performing in front of people was my forte. For a minute, I wanted to be a stand-up comic. So I had like,

I didn't know that. Yes. I didn't know that either. I had like seven routines where I told stories. Yes. And animated and act them out, different jokes, whatever. You know, and I mean, that was kind of my ambition to go forward to be a comic. And you think you're hilarious. Yeah, I do. I do laugh at my own joke. I've been told that's a problem. I've been told that's a problem. Because I do believe I'm going to be. Well, somebody out there's laughing. No, Jack. I mean, no, Zach. It's just you. My fault. You laugh at your jokes, but that's cool. That's all right. I went to college at the University of Texas. Why didn't you become a comedian? Did you ever try and be a comedian? Yes. I've been in talent. I've won talent shows. And I've been, there were comedy clubs here called giggles on Del Maybury. And so I've been there. I used to be an opening act for a couple. of people. I don't know. I just, I think it was more of the stage fright. I don't know what it was. It was just like I was better at stealing other people's routine than kind of coming up ones of my own. I can see that too. I can see that. So I started stealing an early age.

I would say that a lot. That could be like a drinking game where it's like take a shot every time Cox says. I can see that. Yeah. Well, and see, I felt like I could do other people's comedy bits better than them. Right. You know, so I would do other people's comedy bits and they would crack up laughing. But I was doing somebody else's bit,

you know? It was hard for me to come up with ones of my own. A lot of comics steal other people's material, but they also have writers, people that write. Well, you know, another thing, you know,

Seinfeld said this, because there will be many, many times where I'm just having a conversation with somebody and I say something funny or they say something funny. Seinfeld was like, he said, well, what I started doing

was he started just, he kept like a notebook. And he would pull out a notebook right then because you're a, think, oh man, I need to remember that. That's a good joke, but then you don't. So he would write it down right then. And then before you know it, you have a list of jokes. So that's a, I guess a technique. And I've met, what's the guy I met? I did his, his, a podcast, he's a David, um, is it David Lucas? I think it's David Lucas is a, uh, Danny, uh, with concrete

interviewed him. He, he was, we watched him on and, uh, at Giggle. and he's been Giggles still there by the way I don't know if it's still called Giggles but it's like the comedy club or something like that I need to go by there I love comedy I love stand-up comics yeah but I'm saying like he can tell you all about he's in L.A.

Like he's he'll take my I have I still have one buddy that I knew from high school that is a stand-up comic who made his living doing that he was on the circuit so I mean it was an aspiration I just never went back to it I mean I don't

I don't know. It's tough. Like, he's, his thing, like, it's, it's no joke. Like, and you, he actually worked at the comedy club for like a year or two. You know, he's like, you put it like you're like a bouncer. Like, you put in your dues. Yes. But anyway, I'm sorry.

Go ahead. Go ahead. But, yeah, but, you know, acting has always been my stick. Since I've been out, I've been wanting to get back into certain plays at certain theaters. Like, to me, that's a great pastime. I love being on stage and acting out. So this is a great hobby right here. as well um went to what to college college do that thank you went to college partial scholarship

university of texas where i moved to austin um this was like back in 87 so um i moved over moved to austin to start school that's where i went to college longhorn hook um once i was probably in austin about two weeks when i met my first wife her name is jacky um we just started dating right off the bat like we were attracted to each other we were talking so we were going out and it probably we probably didn't know each other three months before she was pregnant so once she got pregnant you know I just proposed I felt like that was the right thing to do and we got married and kind of moved in together she was living with her mom when I met her and going to school and I was of course living on my own so once once she got pregnant she just moved in so when she

when she moved in we did like we got married she moved in and we did pretty pretty good together for a while we were a pretty good team we were we started like we combined our income because we both started working so once we started working we were able to buy like because I had a

piece of crap piece of shit car right and so we were able to buy another car a it's in is Suzu impulse you remember those cars I don't know why I got my big ass in an Susu impulse I have no I folded up and got into that sucker.

But I used to get into that thing. It was one of those Italian, rich, cool guys' car, so I had to get one. The Azuzu is not an Italian car. Listen, Italian people drove that car. Italian muscle men, you know, people thought they were to. Show what else? All right. So, I mean, eventually she gave birth to our son named Richard.

Okay. And we were still working. We were doing pretty good for a while. I think all in all, it was like six years. We were together, didn't have many, many problems, you know, going through school. And then, like, you know, her and my son died in a car accident, you know, which was kind of devastating. Right. So what happened there?

Like, where you were working? In the summertime, I took jobs, like, full-time jobs just to make sure I saved up enough money. for, like, when we were in school. So at that time, I was working at a company called Pollock Paper, and I was a warehouse kind of customer service type of person. And the situation was one day, we used to take turns on who would drive the work just to save gas. You know, so, like, we would only take one car, we wouldn't take the other car. So she drove me to work.

She dropped, so she was going to drop our son off. And my first wife had an issue of over, because in Austin, there's a lot of two-lane roads. So she had an issue of overtaking and passing cars that are slow in front of her, especially in the ensuzo. You know, it's like, hey, this sucker can blow. So I'm going to put it to the test. And so obviously what happened, she tried to overtake a car, and there was a truck coming the other way. And so sometimes those cars don't want you to pass them. I don't know what this is what I imagine

I guess in my head. So she tried to overtake the car and when she tried to turn the truck clipped the car and it hit her and smashed her against the windshield but my son went through the windshield from the back in a car seat. So

they were both pronounced dead at the scene. So what I remember about that day is my boss calling me in to the office and like I always imagine that when something like that happens you kind of feel the the loss of the presence you know right essence you know because I think usually somebody like oh something's wrong I never even had that type of sense

I never had that that sense until he actually said it because when he was struggling I'm sitting there going like I'm thinking he's about to fire me right like the whole like his whole demeanor was like hey can it was that intuition like suddenly like everything like things suddenly everything's just off nothing's really different. Nothing's really not right, but it's just off enough that you get that sense that something's wrong. I thought I would have that. That's what I was saying. I thought I would have that. Oh, you thought you would? Oh, but you didn't. I didn't. And so when he's struggling through it, like, my mind started going, is this dude about to fire me? Right. You know, and I'm thinking like, okay, I did take that last week. I probably shouldn't

of. You know, that's what's calculating in my mind is he's, you know, oh, I got something to tell you. So when he told me, like, I wanted to bust out laughing, like, what? Come on, man. Like, why would you tell me something like that? You know, but he's, he had even arranged for me to go to the hospital, like for me to get a ride to the hospital because I didn't have my car. Because he's asking me that. He goes, did you drive here to work? That's what was all bizarre. He's like, because he's trying to understand my situation. Yeah, yeah. He's trying to make arrangements for you. Right. Like, did you drive? You're about, you're about to be distraught and not understand what's going on. Right. Right. And that's what he was asking me. So the way he was describing it

was kind of putting me in the frame like, this dude's been to fire me and wants to know how I'm going to get off his property. Right. So he made arrangements for him to get to the hospital to identify the bodies. And I guess at that point, I would say my world changed.

You know, it went from a team effort to a solo effort immediately. My wife was Mexican and black, and her mom was Mexican. And her and I were kind, was, I would say, very close. Because her mom had a boyfriend that was an alien, an illegal alien that was here. So we used to make wet back jokes all the time, you know, and they were teaching me Spanish

and all that said, we were pretty close. Her mom was absolutely destroyed because there went, well, Jackie was her only daughter. And there went her daughter and grandson in one point. So it was, it was devastating. So what I tell people is, you know, we talked at the beginning a little bit and it just tapered off. And then just one day she stopped calling and she never ever like returned my calls or answered my call again. And like I've never even heard from. I don't know what became of it.

It's probably just like it was such a reminder of the situation or something. That's what, yeah, that's what you were saying that I reminded her of her only daughter and grandson that were gone. Yeah, that pain. And sometimes it's just some people just. just can't. They don't want to, they just want to walk away. So that, but at that point, my life changed because now the two bedroom apartment that I had, I could no longer afford. Of course, we didn't have life insurance. You know what I'm saying? So it just became the, my, my dad covered the funeral, but it just became very disturbing and distraught. I, I was given like

a month off of work, but then when I went back to work, it's, I was worthless. I was, I was, I was worthless for, I would say it took a year to turn around. I got a lot of help from my parents, from odd jobs that I would take. This is just based on just depression and just non-motivation and just the overall. Yes, yes. My job, Pollock Paper, was very good to me because they paid me full salary. Anyway, I mean, the specifics always, don't let me get caught up in the specifics. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. But anyway, so like after that happened, I took odd jobs. So, One of the odd jobs I took was at a company called West Telemarketing. I really found that jobs that were I could just drone, where I could just be in a zone,

like working and cleaning up and stuff like that, were the only jobs I could really do. Where I didn't have to interact and do a lot of talking to people, I could just go there and just start doing something, what's the jobs I could do. But what was breaking me out of that is I took this job at West Telemarketing, where I was actually going to be on the phone. So I decided to take that job just to kind of like work my way back into it after trying to recover from that. So I was working for West Telemark and I was doing Sears sighting, which was one of my favorite projects, where you were selling the siding for Sears. West is a phone company that calls different people.

Right. So I did that for, I worked there about. It's a phone room. It's a phone room. Well, but it's a high-tech phone because it had predictive dialing. And, you know, you're on the computer screen and you're reading the script. Yeah, yeah, it's a, I understand. I'm just saying it's a phone room where you're selling a product.

It could be any product. And I've come to be pretty, I was pretty good at that. So to the point where when they brought in a new project that they were screaming about, we're going to pick selective people. Really, we're going to pick the people who have the highest sales. Right. And try to get this company, which was the AT&T Universal card. Nice.

Where we were actually calling people up and offering them the free AT&T universal card. I remember that. I had a $20,000 AT&T. When it first came out, I got one for like 20 grand. Use. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. This was my introduction to the credit world, a world that I didn't know anything about. Now, I told you that I had been gone to college about six years and had never been back home. Like when I left in my car for college, like I only talked to my mom, dad, sisters, and brothers. I'd never been back home at all. Plus, back then you paid heavily for, like, if a phone call

was expensive. Yes. Yes, long distance was per minute. Yeah, people don't even realize now. Like, like, you know, if you called somebody in Georgia, like, you get a $60 phone bill, and it's like, you know, I talk for 20 minutes. What's going on? Correct. You paid per and that's 25, 30 years ago.

And this was all the plans. Like in a $200 fucking phone bill. I think I did have that family. You know I'm saying? Well, I had a family and friend plan. that was $23 where I could call certain numbers unlimited. It was just all expensive. Right. The phone was an expensive luxury.

These kids now, they don't know. They have no idea. All right, so I got the job with AT&T Universal Card. Their goal was $2 an hour. Two an hour was making me $10 an hour. Nice. I could do four or five. Yes.

I could do four or five. So I was making very good money, giving away this card, people who were pre-approved of limits. So they had multiple training, and they started explaining how the people were pre-approved, how they pulled, they did a soft pull on their credit, and the credit bureaus were allowed. So their explanation was opening my mind to the credit in the credit bureaus, to the point where I pulled my credit, and I really didn't have any, except for the car loan that my dad helped pay off, which was kind of put me in the middle of the road. but that introduction is what kind of led me down a a fraudulent path because I was

even though I was making good money I was still struggling with my bills and by struggling with my bills like I needed any extra money like I couldn't go anywhere it was either work and home I couldn't really do anything so what happened what about the is this the one where you mentioned the the electric the electric the the Electric bill? Yeah. Well, yeah. Is that?

Yeah, because, you know, my car got repossessed multiple times and my dad helped me. Every month my electric bill would be, or my phone got turned off, my electric, everything was being turned off and turned back on. I was actually chasing bills. That's how I was living, probably for about eight months. Well, you told me what the chick at the electric company told you. Right. So you don't want to say that?

Matt loves the story, so I'll tell you. I like the story. It's a, because it's just like, what a fucking slap in the face. Yes. So. And it was. So my electric bill, of course, is off. It's a Friday.

When I started being a mortgage broker, like I was two, three months behind on my car. At one point, like, Ford Motor Credit is like looking for my truck. This is when I started. I think everyone can like those things like that. Yeah. When you're young, you know. You struggle. You struggle for your bills.

And I was chasing him. I was turning. I was paying reconnect fees all the time. So one Friday. I had two jobs, and this was a two job, because I went from my day job to West. So one Friday, I came home and my lights are out. So it's Friday afternoon at like 4.30 and my lights are out. I'm like, son of a bee.

So I scrounged up everything. I'm talking rolling pennies and coins to go to the Kroger's to pay my light bill in order to get my lights back on. So I literally went broke. Like, I might have had 70, 80 bucks, and that's exactly what I needed to get my lights on. I had to come up with another 15 bucks from everywhere, searching all coins and all possibility. I pay the light bill, and I get the paperwork. It's covered enough to get it turned back on, and I call, and the woman says, I'm sorry,

but the soon as your lights will be on will be Monday. I said, yeah, but it's Friday. That's like two days. I will be without power. She said, well, I'm sorry, I can't help you. I go, that's ridiculous. She goes, no. You want to know what's ridiculous?

What's ridiculous is in the last eight months, your power's been turned off eight times. I said, who do you think you are? She goes, I know what I am, but what you are is a deadbeat. And like I went from mad to, oh my God, I am a deadbeat. like the realization that I couldn't pay my bills

hit me as like you're a failure you know to sit at home in the dark at night yes like I went out to parks like that weekend I had to occupy myself and when I went home it was to get into bed because I had no power like putting food in my friends refrigerators to save what I had and spending all my time outside of the house until it's time to go to bed. That's how I spent

my weekend until Monday turned my power on. And that's when it hit me that I was a deadbeat. Right. Like I'm a complete loser because I can't pay my bills. All right. So probably soon after that, which Matt loves, what happened to me is I'm on a, I'm on an AT&T universal call making my sales pitch. And a gentleman, which I won't mention his name, because I don't, do remember his name. Yeah, I know, you can't believe you remember his name. You're like, I remember his name because. You remember a lot of names.

Yes. So I call this gentleman to offer him the universal card. He had a $25,000 credit limit. So I'm offering him the card. He's like, he was very easy. It's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I go through the spiel. He goes, yeah, okay.

So then I go through the confirmation. Now there, you have to tape record the confirmation in case there's any questions just like, I never got this, I didn't do this. Right. and I didn't agree. So I ask him, can I record you? Yes. You do agree.

I can sing you the card. He said, yes. So I go through the whole spill, you know, and I get to the end. I say, okay, sir, you should receive your card within the next 10 to 14 days. And he goes, hold on one second. That's what he tells me. He in the background. I love you.

His wife. Yeah, kind of argument you hear in the grocery store and when a couple's arguing. Yeah. He goes, comes back and he says, he goes, comes back and he says, says, never mind, I don't want it. I said,

wait, hold on one second, and he hangs up. I'm like, dad it! Hey, watch your mouth on the sales floor. I'm sorry,

I'm sorry. I'm like, this son of a bee. Watch your language. Yes, I apologize. And I'm thinking, so I sit down

because I'm frustrated. I sit there and I go, ah. Like, I don't even understand. This is a $25,000 card. Right. He doesn't have to pay interest.

I'm sitting there. The benefits are going through my money. He doesn't have to pay interest for, two years. Right. He could pay off any of his other cards and he doesn't want it. So then I look and I say, I wonder if I could change this address.

He thought I need. You know what? You know who needs, you know who could use this 25 grand. Exactly what my thought is. And he deserves it. He deserves it. So I change his address in the computer system to mine. Which seems reasonable.

It seems reasonable. I could see that. Right. So then I go back. in and I record that he did not want to be recorded. So then I made sure I recorded another sale on top of his. Wrote down his pertinent information. I don't, and I don't remember where the inspiration for this came. But when I changed the address, I said, just in case I get this card, I probably meet all of his info. So I probably spent 10 minutes not working, processing

all this to make sure I had it, setting it up, rewinding, listening, doing everything I need to do to wipe that sale out of the verbal system, right, and make sure it goes through. So I set all that up out of some inspiration I had, put the paper in my pocket and went back out on the phone and did my sales. So at some point, I forgot about it. Because I think I got home and took the paper out. You're probably thinking I'll never get the card. Yeah, like that became a fantasy that vanished.

And about 10 to 14 days later, because, like, I remember this. because I'd never check my mailbox because guess what always comes in the mail? Yeah, bills. So when I decided to check my mailbox one day, like I'm going through and I see a letter in a unidentified envelope for this person.

So when I look, I feel it. So I know they didn't send me a credit card. No. So then my mind goes, where's this information? I'm like, so I dashed back to the house scurried through everything and I find his information

I activate his card right you know I can hear the what is that music bam boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom is that the AT&T music I can't believe it I have a $25,000

AT&T Universal card And not only that, but in that same envelope is three convenience checks. How convenient was that? Nice. So, good times. Good times. Oh, good times. Good.

And back then, this is the early 90s, like 92, 93. They don't, no, this is 94, 94. They don't, a lot of places don't accept credit cards. You have to go to high dollar places. So I'm in the gas station and using the card to buy gas. and things like, and it worked. So I probably do about 70, 80 bucks. But what I decided to do was write myself a $5,000 check on the convenience checks

and deposited in my bank account that hovered at zero for years. Right. Like my bank said, hey, zero or negative? That's why I like to stay. I mean, and not, you're not thinking, hey, this is leading back to me. No. No. Like, no, not at all.

So I write the check and like three days later when the check clears, I'm like, I don't even know what to do with myself. This is pre-debit cards, by the way. This is pre-visa debit, all that. This is pre-that era. Yeah. So I'm, hey, let me get $1,500. Absolutely.

Thank you. So now I've got money. So guess what gets paid? Bills. I've paid my rent for the next. In fact, I pay my rent for the month coming up and decided, you know what? Go ahead and pay it for August, September, and October. What?

You heard what I said. I pay my electric bill. When my bill comes in, I've got a credit. Like, look at that friggin' blue, baby. Red is out of there. I got it. So all my bills are paid. I don't even know what to do with myself.

I've been out to eat. All my friends I'm at the bar. Hey, hey, everybody gets the beer on me. I don't even know what to do. So it dawned on me. It's like, hey, you still have four grand or like $3,800 left. So you've gone through the $25,000? No, no, no, no.

No, I put a $5,000 check in my account. So I had like 20, I had like a little bit, almost $3,000 left. I'm trying to remember what the amount was. Because I wrote the first check for $5,000. Right. So I had $20,000 on his card. Oh, okay. So I wrote the check.

And then, of course, I made the minimum payment of $58. I mean, you know, I have to keep it. No, you have to keep his credit. You're standing. So something hits me. It says, go home. I'm like, what? Go home.

You haven't been back to Florida in. Got to go see mom. Go see mom. Dad, sis, brother. So I call and I buy an airline ticket, Delta airline. I'm going home next weekend. Like out of the blue, I'm going home. I come back home, I rent a car, I've got money, I'm showering all my nieces and nephews with gifts and everything.

So I make my first trip home after six years. Everybody loves me. I'm having a great time. I'm driving around. I rent a hotel room. I stay at my sister's house. You know, it was just a blast. Something I have never done, something that seemed impossible before that card came in the mail I was able to do.

So that, I think that kind of changed me. It was like being able to have money. Like people calling me to prodigal son. My mom goes, you must be doing good at your job. Yes, I am, Mom. Yes, I am. Of course, I write the other $5,000 check. It takes me about, because I went home about four times,

but it takes me about five or six months to go through the $25,000. So I end up writing, like, the next check I think was $10,000. That lasts me about. My bills are paid, and I really don't. don't know how to spend money and I don't have any thing to spend money on except going home right you know but I did I went home then I would take other trips like hey how about going to veil the ski somebody mentioned that I'm like veil I never been there I have no reason to go but why the hell not so I would I would I just took a couple of trips because I had no idea how

to spend my money all right um what okay so what happened after that is I started traveling on Delta so much. So I should mention that the first guy I did just became the first guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was another person. You became emboldened, like I would say, I became emboldened by the fact that I'd gotten away with it. Yes.

It was so easy. It was like, why isn't everybody doing this? Exactly. So I did another guy and rerouted his car to my house. It's like the movie, like the movie. You remember the movie, the invention of lying? he's the only one who's lying

like and everybody just believes me that's right all right so I um I do like

three or four other so this goes on for about a year now this is important because it's a transition so I start traveling like at the time Delta had this weekend travel

club where like they would pick spots where they'd give you tickets for three or four hundred bucks And so I would go there with a card. I just started spending money because I didn't really have a girlfriend per se. So I would just travel.

I had nothing else going on in my life. You remember, I don't know, this guy, Boziak? Yes. Like I remember when, so he, same thing. He basically told me how he started making money. He's like, but at that time, I didn't know how to spend money. And I was like, and I was like, I didn't, what does that mean? And he went like, he's like, like, I knew.

The only things that I was ever financially able to do didn't cost that much money. Like he's like, so like I would go to the strip club and instead of like tipping, you know, a couple bucks here and a couple bucks here. He was now like I'm fucking throwing money. Like, here's a hundred bucks. He's like, like I'm blowing the money. He said, but even then I don't like, how many times can you go to the strip club? How many times can you go to the bar? He was getting so drunk that you can't get home.

He's like, and he was like, so it's like I had nothing. He's like, then I started buying Cadillacs. He's like, so I bought this Cadillac And then I bought another Cadillac But he's like But there's only so many things I know how to do And then he met some rich guy A rich kid

And the rich kid was like No bro, we're going to go to Breckenridge And we're going to go to Vail And we're going to go to New York And we're going to get a private jet And we're going to buy these clothes And we're going to go He's like

And now I started realizing like How to spend money Like what money could buy And it changed like It totally like changed everything And that's lucky for him Because I never had you You didn't have that guy

I didn't have that introduction all right so that led to the events led to me doing a lot of traveling doing a lot of traveling led to Delta had the upgrades because I was in the 10,000 I was doing a 10,000 or 100,000 miles at a year so now I was able to actually fly in first class of course you know which like I've never flown in first class oh my yes big difference so when that happened I'm kind of like what in the world have I been exposed to like I can't go back to coach oh no with with a pest If I could get an upgrade, if I can't get an upgrade, I don't want to go. But they would give me upgrades ahead of time.

Oh, Mr. Such and Such. You know, it's a whole story behind that. I never even told you. So I would get automatic upgrades to first class. So what that led to is one of the trips I was on, I was leaving. And I think I was leaving and Anthony Robbins was having a seminar. in town so by the way like um only job i had during this was west like what i didn't cover is um i worked at west telemarketing right that was my only job and i end up like i had so many

people's names right i am listening to you i'm listening i'm listening i'm sorry it's work i forget that i could be talking to the camera i talk to those people yeah i'm not important i've heard this All right. So at some point I had so many people's names, right, that I quit. I think I bought a bulk of tapes. I don't need you guys anymore. But that was the only reason I ever, like, and I forgot this, I quit everything else. Like, I didn't need any other jobs.

So I only went there because I needed to gather names. So now it became imperative that I'd be on there. And then I realized that I started turning in, like, like my focus was altering the the tapes so I took another job in the quality assurance department so that I can get to the tapes and then not be mine so in the quality assurance and now I realized you know they kept tapes forever right so I'm like oh cool so I just stole racks of other people you know so I've got me a vault of tapes like when I looked people talking to customers and they're giving them all their information over the phone.

Here's my name. Here's my date of birth. And then at that time, credit bureaus were very lax. All I had to do was one application, like put in an application in a different address, and they would update the address in the file. And like there's no notification. No. Like there's none of that.

This is all, this is the 90s. This is pre-ID theft. So it's good. So, yeah, good time. Very easy. So once I discovered that, I'm like, I don't need this job anymore. Like I went through because. working for suckers.

Yes. I went through and there's I had over 300 different people's credit files on the tape to the point where like during one of my arrests when they searched my house

right and took me to jail when I came back like everything's gone but the tapes. It's like cool. We're going to take everything you stole

that could I connect you to those people. Okay. Except for the one thing that connection to those people. Nice. Thank God for cops. Yeah, thank God.

So I quit the job and I moved to Atlanta. So like living like, I'm like, what's the purpose of living in Texas anymore? So I moved to Hotlanda just because I think I met somebody. It's a lot to transpire. And so I met someone I moved to Atlanta. And now I'm living in Atlanta and I'm flying. Anthony Robbins is doing a concert, is doing a weekend premiere in Atlanta. Okay.

So I've read his book personally. personal power. I took the little course and I'm like, oh, I would love to go to that. So I called for tickets and they're like, okay, it's like $6,000. I said $6,000. What? It's six grand. They go, but think about this. You're going to be spending, you're going to get 15 quality hours of Anthony Robbins talking to you. I'm like, well, that's worth me giving you this other guy's credit card information. No, I still didn't think it was worth it. So I get on a flight. I don't know where I'm going somewhere. It's first class. You know, and I'm drinking my champagne and eating my smoked salmon. And I'm sitting next to a guy that's... What is that noise in the back? Is that coach? Someone close that curtain. Keep those peasants quiet.

Please. So I'm... I'm sitting there and we're talking about Anthony Robbins. And he's like, he goes, dude, I went to one of those seminars. He was a... Change my life. That's why I'm sitting in first. class. He was a sales rep for Plus. Yes. For a company called Plus, it's a credit processing company for Visa and MasterCard. And he said he makes about a quarter of a million a year. I said, what? They're based out of the French Riviera. Did you say, where are you stealing all that money? No, no, I have a legitimate job. You mean they pay you? They pay you to process credit cards? Me, please. But he was telling me how Anthony Robbins changed.

changed his life. I'm like, how the hell did Anthony Robbins change your life? He said, I went to a seminar and I met my boss there at the seminar. So Anthony Robbins didn't change it. I just met the guy that would pay me a quarter of a million. Exactly. I'm like, that's just a twist of faith. He goes, well, ask yourself one question. Who else is paying $6,000 to go see Anthony Robbins? Right. Okay. Yeah. So you're meeting a bunch of rich people that are motivated. Yes. So I'm like, huh. So I paid the $6,000 to go see Anthony Robbins. So it just so happened, he was recruiting for his train-to-trainer project that he had going on.

So you're there, and Anthony Robbins is pulling people from the crowd to come work for him. Right. Well, he's saying those that are interested in my personal where I'll be training multiple corporations on how to train people. So how many people was he hiring? 12. So he said, I need, I need 11, 11 white guys and a black guy. Well, he needs 10 guys, one female, and one black guy. There you go, okay.

And somebody that looks Hispanic. He told me, he goes, he goes, I always felt like I was a token. I was a token. So was the girl. I don't know. So was the girl. And the girl was hot. I'm talking.

Well, he didn't hire you because you're hot. He surely, well, I became hot. But anyway, get him out of here. He's smoking. All right. Sorry. It's good serious. Okay.

So, yes. So he was pulling dynamic people. He wanted to interview him. So I interview. And you. And me. Plus you. Dynamic people.

Plus a black guy. And a white girl. And a white girl. Get me a hot white chick, a black guy in 10 dynamic people. And I stare at the NAACP to say, shit. So he interviewed you. And I got the job.

So Anthony Robbins himself interviewed you. Well, no. There was a, it was like a five tier, four or five tier interview process. Okay. It took about four months, you know. And then Anthony Robbins himself called and said, congratulations. You've been hired. You're like, no.

So I went to his Fiji house twice where they had training. And he's like, this is blah, opportunity of a lifetime this is what you're going to be covering multiple companies i'm paying you like it was like over 10 grand per month it's like a hundred thousand dollar a year job he's like a giant right yes he's like six six huge full of energy smiling all the time and the most upbeat positive person ever i mean he knows exactly what to say to make you feel yeah well he's six foot six i'd be fucking thrilled too my my challenge my verdict challenge, friend.

It's a foot taller than me. Yes. Fucker, I hate that fucker. I don't even like tall people. So I get this job in the midst of me living off of theft. So I'm living off a fraud. Right. And you're still using cards.

Yes. And I get a hundred thousand dollar a year job. So I'm literally stealing my clothes and I'm stealing money. I'm on a consistent basis of stealing money, right? When I was struggling and working two jobs and none of this has caught up to you now directly to my mailbox

in Texas directly to my mailbox in Georgia wow and I'm multiple people depositing uh convenience checks into your account did they have it coming you know that like AT&T universal car like they just have it coming you're just slacks I'm I'm slamming them I'm doing other cards city banks Now I'm pulling their credit reports and I'm like, oh, let me get his, oh, he doesn't use the Citibank. I'll use it. Oh, he's got a $30,000, um, BNA. I'll never, like, MBNA was giving like 80, 90 grand in credit.

People would never even touch it. It's only right. It's only right. So I was, yoke, I'll take this one, this one. I'm living off and I'm just blowing. I'll take a visa, a master card in an American Express for $1,000. I'm living off of all of that. And then pocketing.

pocketing the Anthony Robbins money? Well, the Anthony, my, my fascination is when I was working two jobs and struggling, I couldn't get a handout for nothing. Couldn't qualify for food stamps, none of that. All right. So then I just live off a complete fraud, and then I get an Anthony Robbins job worth $100,000. A job I would have never gotten, you know, just in a normal thick of things.

He was, you had to pay $5,000 to even be possibly introduced to that. So yeah, I got that job. So I'm stealing clothes from, lands in, I've got monogram shirts with my initials on it, on the pocket and everything. I'm wearing, fucking, yeah, four or $5,000 suits, flying first class all around the world training people for about a year's time. Well, as you say, after ordering everything directly to my door, it finally caught up to me.

No. Yes. How did that happen? How did they track you down? By the way, did you know, did you know, so I was interviewed by a psychiatrist and stuff, right? So I was also listening, I've been listening to different things on IQ. Right. And I listened to a guy named Jordan Peterson.

Do you know who that is? No. He's a professor in Canada. And what, you know, he was talking about IQ and, like, what it means and how they use your, the IQ tests for different things. This killed me, but it seemed, it also made a whole. lot of sense after having to deal with them. So he was like you take these aptitude tests or an IQ test and that like the military wants people that have an IQ between like they like 80 he goes 80 and 100 and it was like why because they're okay with doing simple tasks he said under 80 he goes and they

can't complete the task over a hundred and they question what you're asking them to do too much so it's between 80 and 100 is what the the perfect soldier is because he'll just follow simple orders and won't look too much into it right you hire too much you know a little too high and they start going should we really wipe out the entire village i mean is that the right morally thing to do you know it's like okay but the guy at 90 will be like kill them all yeah that's the order right law enforcement is between a hundred it's like a hundred and i think it was like or was it between 90 and like 110 because the problems are a little bit more complex but if there's more than 110 then they overthink it and he was explaining the whole thing and i was like

that makes a lot of sense after dealing with law enforcement and and i was thinking myself the average high school student by the way has 100 IQ right so i thought what do ceos have Like, where do CEOs fall? They have to fall in the soldier range, right? Not that I have any problems with military. God bless the military. But these are the people that don't qualify, right? The CEOs?

These are the people who don't qualify for military or police, right? Yeah, well, a lot of the CEOs had been in the... You ever noticed a lot of CEOs had been in the military and they've gone straight to become a CEO because they couldn't qualify for to become a police officer. Right? Because you ever noticed that? Like, they couldn't pass the task.

They couldn't pass the psych exam. I love the guy. He can't be a police officer, but he can be a CEO. So where you have complete control over someone. Yes. So anyway, but I'm sorry, I thought that was fun. But they feel it's regulated, but go ahead. So being able to track you down.

Right. Was the guy that probably was at the top scale at 110. Well, let's see. All of these go to this address. What do you think, John? Well, I'm thinking we check that address out. Let me, let me, clumsily, because I'm going to tell you something, where I was living in Atlanta, it was like a little small apartment complex, right? It was a townhouse complex.

And the lady up front and I were very, I think we went to lunch a couple of times. It was an older lady. She was very nice. We talked, and I brought her lunch, and a couple of times, like I say, hey, there was a nice little banquet, like a little place across the street to eat. They had bagels and different things. So I said, hey, let's go over there and grab something to eat at lunchtime. Anyway, it's all a long story. So one day, as I come in, right, she opens the door and she waves me.

I'm like, huh? Anyway, she tells me, she goes, you know, a detective came by here asking who lived there. And I remember thinking, do you know how that's how dumb I was? I'm like, ah, probably nothing. After having all those cards go to my house, I'm like, ah, I don't see any point. I'm an upstanding citizen. I work for Tony Robbins. Exactly.

I don't see any problem with that. Meanwhile, I've gotten $80,000 in the bank, easily could have went to the house, grabbed everything, and not come back. Right. No. I'm like, if it was a problem, he would have probably contacted me or waited.

Three weeks later, they come barging into the house and like, hey, you're under a friggin' rest. What? Yes. So that shows my stupidity also, because I got an ample warning. Who lives there? They want to know my name and everything. Yeah, she told me that.

She told me that. And instead of me reacting to it, I'm like, just, you know, like my federal arrests. So you got arrested by the local, by the, what, the, who rushed it? Just the local cops? Yeah, local police officers arrested me for fraud. They searched my house. Atlanta PD? Atlanta PD. The feds came in because I was ordering stuff from a company called Lans Inn.

Like my name in Lans Inn is infamous. I ordered from them like probably 25 different people's credit cards. I'm ordering shirts with I-K-A. So anytime I-K-A gets ordered, they weren't allowing it. That's how much I terrorize them. So they come in and the FBI just takes my shirts. And they're telling them, they're telling them, It's the most thing ever. Where do you don't belong to you? We're sending them back to Landon. So what? They can sell them to other guys with the initial.

My size? I'll just order them again. But no, make sure that mark. So, yeah, the FBI came in and searched the room and they're kind of like, well, we're not going to pick you up this time. They fingerprinted me and said, well, we're not going to get you this time. That's what they told me. They haven't indicted.

Yeah, yeah. They didn't indict you. Like, they're just processing the whole thing. but they're going to let that be. So small crime, they're going to let the locals handle it. Small crime. It had to at least be seven people at that address in Georgia. Listen, I don't understand where they get small

because what they charged me with was probably like eight. It came up to about $3,300, like where I used the card in that county. That's all I got charged with. But like I'm saying to myself, that card had $60,000. So I might have used the last three grand. to pay for dry cleaning and stuff. Like, what about all those checks? How'd they calculate?

You don't know. You don't know, but you didn't ask. Yeah, you don't look a good course of the amount. So I'm in, I'm in jail with no bond. So when that happens, my mom drives up from Florida with my sisters and my nieces and nephews because I didn't have a bond. Anyway, long story short, I end up doing six months on that pedally charge.

It took two weeks to get a bond. You don't have a bond. You don't have a bond for two weeks. I got a $90,000 in the bank. Let me pay off the cards. Well, let me pay you back. Exactly. No.

Anyway, for two weeks, I didn't have a bond. Like, they're like, we don't know. He's a horrible flight. Anyways, it was ridiculous. Yeah, I know. You're an actor. It was ridiculous. We paid an attorney $5,000 and he got me a, like a $50,000 bond on $3,000 worth

the car theft. Right. It was ridiculous. Anyway, I ended up doing six months county time for that, those charges, right? And so I lost everything. thing in that period of time. Well, when I got arrested and bonded out, that's when I told you, Anthony Robbins called. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And so Anthony Robbins finds out that you've, he finds out that you've been, you said you tried to get out, you got out before he, right, so that he, they didn't really miss you. And then suddenly, it took two weeks, yeah. And then suddenly he calls. Yes. Well, he, no, I got, you know what it was? I played guilty and I had to turn myself in. So once I played guilty is when he called.

But I was missing for two weeks, like I was ill. and then I noticed that my ill yeah that's that was yeah that and then I noticed my assignment slowed down to where like I used to be gone for I was gone for two weeks home for a week gone for two weeks that's how it went I would bounce around now I'd be gone to do one training and then I'd come back right and they were flying you they flew you to all over the world Australia yeah you told me what where like Austria Australia the UK um like every England England England, which is the UK, Italy and Spain. I visited about 20 countries, Japan, and I had interpreters. It was a great job. It was unbelievable. I could spend an hour and a half on that. I think I don't know if I, yes. It was unbelievable. Too bad you fucked that up. Go ahead. Sorry. So anyway, and now I wasn't going out of the country. I just noticed that my workload was great deal less. Like I'm not going to Spain

now. When I got out, my schedule was gone. Now you're just going to go to San Diego and train. Now you're just going to fly, you know, you're going to drive up to Tennessee. You know what I'm saying? You're not going as far. You're just going to do these local ones. Yeah. Right. Because you're starting to, they're

tapering down. They're still probably trying to figure out what to do with you. Like, what do we do? Right. Because I got, I guess I got the church. I don't know how they know or what they know you know and Anthony Robbins he's plugged in he's plugged he might have been or maybe the cops

you know because I did hear one of them asked me or I remember like somebody saying something or asking me about it and I'm like not really I kind of downplayed it but I think somebody called

the company and whatever so they taper me down so I plead guilty I got three weeks to turn myself in so I'm about to take a six months like I'm trying to maintain this job yeah right and so he calls me up

and he's kind of like gives me the I'm fine he fired me personally you know and he's telling me how you know this perfect record that he wanted to maintain you know he picked the top so because I wanted to describe the motivational speech firing because it's that's a unique quality that Anthony Robbins has I can fire you motivationally you know so you so the outline was kind of like you know everyone dreams has aspirations you know my aspiration was to put together a dynamic team that would gel and be together for at least five or ten years that's going to take over the world when it comes to training and change the face of training and outlook a very diverse dynamic team that's not a goal I was able to reach and I'm sure your goal you know was to make a lot of money get an opportunity to meet a lot of different people from a lot of different companies right so even Even though we're not going to make that goal, let's talk about what we've accomplished along the way to this point. I get Anthony Robbins.

This is awesome. Think about you met the leader of the Kodak company. This is someone you trained some of its top people. You did that. There are success stories in every training you've done. This guy is breaking down what I've accomplished. And he's telling me, if you look back at what you've done in this past year, working with me, I'm sure there's a thousand opportunities that far exceed this one.

I'm going to let you chase those opportunities. Doing you a favor. I can't believe I'm going to do this favor for you and let you go to chase those opportunities. And so I'm going, but I'm kind of happy where I am. And he's like, well, some things my company can't, you know, he's like there's some things he can't accept. you know what I'm saying doesn't mean they're wrong I just can't accept them

so look at this as an opportunity for you to expand what you've got going on and chase dreams that you've created for yourself I'm gonna hang this phone up I'm not your boss anymore

but God damn it didn't say dick he didn't say it he's like a good Christian or something yeah but damn it gosh I know God

I started, I'm going to see you in a higher position in the next couple of years. Heck yeah, next time I'm getting 16 years instead of just six months. Feds, baby. He hung up that phone and I'm like, I'm going to go on to great things. Right after I do this six months in the county. Matt, that was, when I tell you that was an outstanding firing. It never felt so good. It just went.

It took me to heights that you couldn't. Oh, wow. Yes. But he did it personally. I have to give him credit for that. So, I mean, but yeah, that was the end of that job. You know, I received a separation package, which is amazingly time because I think, like, he called, and I think that same data package showed up.

So he's like, hey, hey, get him on the phone before that damn thing showed up. But anyway, but yeah, I got let go from that job. I did my time. I lost everything. I had money, but I lost everything. So when I got out of my six months, I moved to Florida with my mom to start over. This starts the new chapter where I met my wife now. Nice.

Not wife now, no, not wife now, wife then. Your ex-wife now. Yeah, yeah. So after multiple arrests, I moved, well, after that arrest, I bonded out, or not bonded out. I got out of my six months, lost everything, moved back to Florida to live with my mom in Sarasota. Right. So when I did that, you know, I kind of got odd jobs.

I got through temporary agencies. One of them was working for the cable company, the local cable company, where I was able to pick up more credit card numbers and more people's profiles. The cable company, is this the one where you were. taking a shower and you saw the boxes? No, no, no, no. That happens a little bit later. That becomes relevant here. Okay.

So I got back. I went to work for the cable company. So obviously I wasn't done doing what I was doing. So I still had some information, but when I went to the cable company, I was able to get access to more people's information when I was living in Sarasota. So I began doing credit card fraud. What I always tell people is credit card fraud. always has been. Matt, what are you doing?

I'll tell you. I'm just saying you can see where it's focusing on because the square is on this. The square is right here. No, the square is on your head. Yes. On your head. Only because I took it off of him.

Anyway, can you see it on the screen? I'll talk to you guys because talking to him. I'm just worried about quality control. Okay. quality QA. Come on, go ahead. What are you doing? What are you taking so long for?

All right. So what I, all right, now I've completely lost my train. No, you were working for the cable company. I was working for the cable company, stealing more people's information. That's what she said. And committing fraud. Obviously, I got kind of addicted to credit card fraud. But what I've come to learn is that credit card fraud is the reason why I was a category

six or career criminal because I got arrested for it every time I did it. Every time I did any minor credit card fraud just to order and have extra stuff, I ended up going to jail. It's just one of my downfalls of life. So I moved back with my mom. I had finally got my own place. I'd put my life together enough. But I had stole probably $10,000, $15,000 until... You do understand it's not every time.

What do you mean? No, it's not every time. Okay. I'm just saying that's an exaggeration. It's just facing. I stole, you know, $150,000. IDs and use multiple cards thousands of times

and you get caught once and you say every time I can do that. All right. So I ended up going to jail with multiple credit card fraud. Anyway, I moved back with my mom. I started over. I went to jail. I did another six months. For what? Another credit card for? Yeah, just credit card for a lot.

When I went to jail, I got out then my mom moved me to Tampa. So I moved to Tampa to live with my aunt. All this is relevant because like, these are my arrest in Florida. There's stories behind it, but, you know, I don't want to get into each one. All right, so once I got out of jail in Sarasota, I went to Hillsborough County.

In Hillsborough County, I lived with my aunt, and I got a job at an electric supply company, which is a company that provides supplies for all electricians, mostly in the Tampa area. It was paying about $7.50 per hour. So I got, I had a girlfriend when I went in. She abandoned me while I was doing my seven or eight months in Sarasota County. When I got out, I wanted another girlfriend, you know. Of course. With my appetite.

So I think I hooked up with one of these dating. At the time, it wasn't sites. They were phones, like Alive Links, where you call it. Okay. This is where I had the honor of meeting the wife that went with me. So I'd call. Are we saying her name? You should call her right now and ask if we can say.

your name. Let's call it right now. You have a number? No, of course I don't. Well, I'm not going to say it. Let's, let's, let's, hold on. I'm going to have you. You want to punch in the number or do you not know the number? I not know the number. It's on my other phone. You want to grab my other phone? All right. All right. Bye. Sheesh. Ooh. Woo. So, you met this chick Madison. Met this chick Madison. Met this chick Madison on.

whatever live links whatever it was a phone call so she was live link it was live links see they don't know the millennials like the young they don't know what it was it was a dating service before there was internet well during it before internet dating service and apps I met her on where you'd call this number and you get to talk to single ladies and the single lady

you leave a recording and a lady would leave you a recording using ladies is a little bit loose I loosely of the term. So, so her and I hooked up and we're talking on the phone. And needless to say, anyway, what it happened was I was living with my aunt. So I just got out of jail.

I was supposed to have lost everything. Unfortunately for me, I still had the capability of getting rental cars just because even You didn't go over the rental car thing. Well, as I told you before, the rental car thing kind of predates. No, I didn't. Right.

So basically, you were basically, by this point, you were able to rent by this point you were able to rent rental you had figured out how to rent rental cars without paying any money without paying for them and then actually then you would have drug dealers give you like a thousand dollars and you would rent them a car that was always a kind of a side hustle I always thought of that as my come up right like if I need a thousand dollars I could rent give me I'll give you a rental car for 30 days give me $400 right so I do that like twice or three times and now I got $1,000 okay you know and I was able to do that all that came

when I was all that developed when I was traveling and going where I was going and renting a car when I started using the executive services like the pay, well, you don't have to pay, you just land and the car is waiting. Right. Right. Well, just setting up for that made me realize

that when I called and gave my card number, I didn't actually have to get my card number. Right. You know, I'm like, I could actually give someone else's card number. Or like I would get there and they would say, hey, your card declined. And I'm like, I don't have another card on me.

So I would actually leave and go into a booklet I had with card numbers and get on the phone and change the number. Right. And then go back and pick up the rental car. Oh, it works now. You know, so like discovering that system let me to know that, hey, I can manipulate the hell out of this. Right.

So I had started doing that. So at the time I had just got out of jail. I'm living with my aunt. I'm not supposed to have any money. I meet this girl on the phone named Madison. And she invites me to come over. So I'm like, hey, you know, I'm going over there. I might get lucky.

Unfortunately, I didn't get lucky the first day, but. Some of them want to hold out. They want you to think they're a nice girl. I know it's a game. All right, anyway. So what happened was I wanted to go see her. She lived in St. Petersburg. I'm in Tampa.

So I wanted to go see her. And I didn't have a transportation. So what I did was I used my ability and how I store card numbers. it's amazing because a lot of times what the police don't realize is my like if I was a bank robber or I was a robber and my tool to rob was a gun obviously when I get a gun I can rob well unfortunately my tool to rob was information so what was always bizarre is whenever I got out of jail I could go over to the clerk's office and just ask for the evidence in my case and it would just be all the information that I had put down on paper that they confiscated. Right. Oh, Your Honor, here's evidence where he had people's names, socials, date of birth, and card numbers, Your Honor.

20 or 30 of them right there. So I'm like, yeah, thank you. And I'd get out and I'd just grab that back and go back to work on it. Right. I'd call and see which ones were still valid. Oh, yeah, that's good. Okay.

And then I would use them to rent a car. Right. So I did that that day and rented a car to go see her. The problem was I was living with my aunt and I didn't have any money. So I didn't want my aunt to see that I had a rental. car. So what I did with her, like the second or third time I saw her, we went out on day, we went to grab something. The second or third time I saw her, I just told her, I said,

hey, listen, because I told her I was just out of jail. Right. Right. And so she didn't care. She's like, I don't care. So it's no problem. We can still kick it. So I told her, well, look, I'm out of jail and I rented this car and I can't really explain to the people I live with how I have a car. So I have to park it around the corner. Right. How about you just hold on to the car, right right and I will I think that's me that's me oh I will just like come like I'll take the bus I took the bus to work so I'll take the bus to work and when it comes time to see you you just come get me and we'll hang out and you can just come drop me off right so basically I'm just giving her a rental car you know to drive around and I'm putting gas in it so like she later told me that that's how

like I reeled her in because she's kind of like this guy just gave me a 2000 five this was 2004, 2003. Rental car like he doesn't even know me. Yeah. And now I'm driving around in the frigging up-to-date new brand new car with a booming system.

So that's kind of how I hooked her in. So needless to say, we kind of hit it off and we're dating. At the time, I'm on house arrest because obviously I've got charges in Sarasota they let me out on house arrest. So I'm

supposed to be staying at my, my, my, my aunt's house. So somehow I put up enough, I got enough money together on a couple of paychecks. I got like five or six hundred dollars. I got like $1,000 or something saved up. Right. I forgot how. I probably, anyway, I had that money saved up, so I want to get my own place. So she takes me around in my rental car and helps me find my first place. So obviously the place that her and I are going to hang out. So we find my first place. I buy a little bit of furniture and, and move in. And living there. So now that I'm there, she doesn't have to drive all the way to St. Pete home and back.

So we're together a lot. Right. All right. So obviously I'm still doing what I'm doing crimes. Doing what I do. Doing what I do to make money. And so this exposes because she hasn't, she's never done anything like this. Right, right.

You know, she's just. You corrupted her. I remember that was an issue with her parents. Yes. So. Our baby. Yes. So, because I'm, she doesn't, she doesn't do what I do.

And so I'm doing what I do. And she's like around and kind of like, that's like asking questions kind of like, because one thing I was doing for money is that when I dealt with drug dealers, this is back in the date when prepaid phones came out. Right. You remember that where you buy phone minutes, you buy the card and reload the phone. Yeah. This is how drug dealers, this is how when they start introducing phones to people without

excellent credit. Right. Because remember, you the only way you would get a cell phone is you had good credit. Yeah. So they kind of said, well, why don't we offer phones to everybody and we'll just give them prepaid phones? So drug dealers got prepaid cell phones and they'd put minutes on. They'd get $100 and get like 50 minutes or something on their phone.

But you could also put minutes on the phone with a credit card. So what I told drug dealers is, hey, I'll put $100 worth of minutes on your phone for $50. Right. I think I was charging $30. bucks. I was really undercutting myself. So they'd be like, what? Yeah, give me $30 and I'll put $100 worth of minutes on your phone. So I probably build up a customer base of about 10 people.

So I had a source of $300 a week, right? So they're calling me up. I just, I'll never forget this because I thought it was unusual. So my phone would ring. I'd be somewhere and my phone would ring and she'd answer the phone. And she'd go, hey, some dude named Meatball called and said that he doesn't have any more phone minutes. I'd be like, oh, okay, thank you. So she'd be like, uh, why is Meatball calling you when he don't have phone minutes? Like, why call you if he's out of phone minutes? Right.

You know what I'm saying? What do you got minutes in your pocket or something? Kind of. Here's a couple of them for him. So I kind of told her about what's going on. And like, like any good... She said, I can't be involved in this. I can't be around you. I don't think we should see each other anymore like every good girl does. Of course. That's exactly what she did not say. She was absolutely down. As a matter of fact, she said, you know, I happen

to know of a couple of drug dealers in my city in St. Pete. We could actually expand the business from 10 to maybe 60 customers. Wow. So she McDonaldized it. Yes, she did. As a matter of fact, it went from... You're trying to get by.

It's really her fault. Exactly. It's your fault. Madison. Madison. He was just trying to get by. That's right. I had my little catch of customers, but you had a treasure trove.

She said, what if we just added a couple zeros to this? Exactly. We could start to do something. You know how funny it was because I would go to work, right? And I would come back home where, like, one Friday I got my paycheck for two weeks worth of work. And they work you 40, 50 hours a week. So I had a two-week paycheck with like 108 hours worth of work, come out to like $680.

So here's my check. Oh, I got a $680 check. And she's like, wow, I just went to St. Pete and collected $4,000. So why don't we go out to eat on your check? And the rest of the stuff will pay, you know what I'm saying? I'll pay bills and then we'll go traveling. Wow. that's, that became the reality.

It's kind of like we were paying bills. It's like everything criminal that I could do, her knowledge enhanced it to add zeros at the end. Right. So it, so her induction was kind of like, that's a good idea. And if we did this,

who we? Yeah. So her hoo-wee is what lifted us up. up. So she was full on board. So we did a bunch of different things. Like we took card numbers and we could pay other people's bills and just charge them 50%. So if you owe $700 on your electric bill, I could pay that bill and you just give me $350. So I'm covering your bill you do have. Now what led to that was I had a treasure trove of corporate. Can I say something? What's funny about that is like people now don't realize that 20 years ago so 20 years ago if I had a

one bedroom apartment based on dollar 20 years ago my one bedroom apartment my water my electric bill was 150 bucks yes okay you know my electric bill is here what every month is it's like between 35 and 45 dollars so people don't realize like like if you tell someone like 15 years ago yes they think that they're like are you how could you because the energy efficiency was so vastly different. But if you talk to some kid who's now 35 years old, he wasn't paying any bills 15 years ago or 20 years ago. So when you tell them that, they're like,

what do you mean? For a one bedroom, it was 150. Yes. Yeah, it was 150. And that's me shutting off the, shutting stuff off constantly. I leave everything on here. Yep.

My worst electric bill here has been like 48 bucks or something. Yes, it's vastly different. Right. And cooling a house was two or $300 a month. Right. So you having some guy who's got a four, or $600 or $600 bill, if he had a three-bedroom, two-bath house, it could be $600. Oh, my God, they were threatening to turn them off constantly.

So what happened was we got our hands on a treasure trove of corporate credit card numbers. Nice. It worked from the electric company that I was working at. Just so happened, one of the, and I blame this, one of the conditions of my house arrest was I had to attend this class on a Thursday evening. So because I got off work at five, I'd have to go directly from work to the class. I never had a chance to go home.

And at work, I sweat like a pig. And I didn't want to go sweaty. Right. So what happened was they said, hey, there's a shower upstairs in the little, there's a storage area, and there's a shower. So I'm like, cool, I'll take a shower. Unfortunately, that shower room lets no ventilation or air in.

So when you're in a hot shower, And you get out, you're like, you're like, like, there's no air because of steam. Right. So you have to open the door just to breathe. So I'm in that shower area getting dressed. And it's just a storage area. It's a bunch of boxes and stuff.

And as I'm putting on my shoes, I happen to look up and I saw a box. This is like 2004. I saw a box that said credit card receipts for 2003. So I'm putting my shoes on and I'm thinking to myself, there's no way there's credit card receipts in that box for last year that's just not

you really are an employer's worst fucking nightmare any employer who hired him ever got shafted oh you've got the universal people you've got the cable people you've got this company made a mistake wow

like there is there is no way No, no, any position of trust is out. Out of there. Listen, next to that box said copies of checks, all checks written for 2003. You saw it. I just know there's not all the copies. I'm thinking, well, when I went in the credit card box, I'm like, oh, dear God. Oh, dear God.

What have these people done? What have they done? So I just took half of July Out of the box But by the time I was done by the way I think Well I think there was a couple of half months In there

Yeah they came in Like two years later They had to go back and pull a receipt And there was just a brick In a box Took it home And like the folder I took home Probably had a hundred

Like I'd say 250 250 credit card receipts full numbers expiration date address corporate cards so by having that like first of all that meant that we could get rental cars and what is the term and and faniam what's the term for forever um infinitely for infinitely but they go add for there's another word for it i'll think of someone will say it in the comments yes like like rental cars now like we would exchange a rental car

because it was out of gas we're like hey we don't like this car can we bring it in and exchange it we'd have a rental car listen why not pay for fucking gas why

when you can just get a brand new with a full tank of gas with a full tank of gas unbelievable listen one time we turned in we had a rental car for six weeks and we turned it in

and when the guy you know when you turn in a rental car they print the receipt right there. The guy printed the receipt and go, here's your receipt, sir. And the receipt was like $8,750 bucks. He's like, oh my God. He knows, this has got to be a mistake.

I said, just give me the receipt, man. Thank you. Give a fuck what that says. Oh, my God. Corporate cards. So I went to paying a lot of people's bills with corporate cards. Getting half of the money. needless to say

between Madison and I she had a bank account she had about 90 grand in her account from just paying bills of people in St. Pete I mean

that phone call she made to Love Line or Hotline or whatever it was called that was a good investment That was a life changing but you know women I had to pay like $7 on somebody else's card

to get in there she got in for free it's unfair but that's what happened it's a double standard it's a double standard that's what happened so we went from that so i'm trying to remember because at some point we went on the run and i think somebody introduced some other fraud to us that kind of gained our interests and we got caught up because she went into a bank we tried to cash a check and they became a warrant out i think from my arrest and so we decided to go on the run and we ran to live in Atlanta we just packed up our crap in a rental car and dashed to Atlanta so we went on a car that you rented and on a corporate

card yes listen I I had infinite like so the folders were like this thick right right and so it took a page, each page had a number on it. So what we decided to do was, we'll just write the numbers on a piece of paper. So, like, a folder had a full sheet. So, like, after about January, February, about June or July, we had like seven sheets full of card numbers. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's enough. That's, that's plenty. And we just scratch them out as they, well, pick another number. Okay, let's, uh, this one. It's just, it was unbable. Unbelievable. So rental car, we would do hotel rooms where we would fax copies of. It was just, it was, if a card number was needed, we were able to provide the card number. Right. All right. So that's how we lived for about a month and a half. We met up with our tech guy that helped us out. His name was Neo. Right. And he enhanced. And Neo, you had met during your jail sentence, right?

Yes. Yes. In Cobb County. Right. Which always kills me is that they, they lock me up to prevent me. Yeah, they lock people. Like, it's, you go to jail and you meet, if you meet a bunch of guys that are like-minded, and if you don't change your attitude, then you just become a more lethal criminal by going to jail.

Like, you go to jail. Like, I think I was, you know, when I went to prison, like, you know, when I went to prison, like, Like, I feel like now I had like a GED in fraud because, you know, and I got out and I felt, boy, if I wanted to do it now. You know, America, America did a study in like the 19th. There was a point where America did a study on jails. I'm going to, I want to get the information for your subscribers. And they had people study the effects that jail has on criminals. Right.

And just what you said, you know, this like this place is not going to stop crime. it actually promotes crime. Oh, yeah, it makes you 10. Like my mindset, if I, like the, if at some point I say, hey, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm going to, I'm going to start committing fraud. Like, I'm going to be 10 times as dangerous. Yes.

Especially like knowing how they calculate victims. Like, I always felt like I went out of my way to try to not have, you know, hit any individuals. Like I felt like I, in my mind, I was targeting banks. I was trying to, like, I didn't want, now. it doesn't matter if they're real people or banks or whatever you're getting charged the same amount of money or the same amount like they're going to be it's going to be just as harsh so it's like okay so why spare anyone and and you know like if you're not if none of that's taken into consideration

well then guess what like now I'm just cutting everybody's throat you know and as far as like how how to launder money like my way of getting money out of the bank was you go in the bank you get cash out like I had no idea of how to buy like you can buy diamonds you can buy silver you can buy or any type of precious metals you can buy it from one place walk across the street sell it get yourself a check put it in a corporate account i'm like there's so many ways to launder money now i know now never knew any of that before prison so they someone told america like that is the worst thing you could do was start incarcerating people and america's like ah but it it feels good it does but it gets us votes so anyway that's a whole other topic so anyway you were saying

so you got your credit you got your stacks credit card you writ you got you go on the run. You're on the run with Madison. With Madison. We had another friend named Chris that we were kind of supporting. And like we were all doing rental cars. We all kind of hustled together. Because when Madison and I left for Atlanta, Chris and Neo. No, Neo was, Neil was the tech guy that I met in jail and that I hooked up back with. And he, he helped the hotel. He helped everything we do because he took, when whenever we facts to paperwork for a hotel,

the card was always too dark for you to read the numbers. So we would write the numbers on the sheet. We did a primitive version. Neo said, you know what, I can, in Photoshop, make the identical card. Just give me a copy, the front and back of a visa card,

the front and back of a master card, the front and back of a Discover card, the front and back of American Express. So we got him a front and back of all those cards and the front and back of an ID. So he made all that interchangeable. So now I can actually put the numbers on the front of the card and on the back of the card. And then fax it over to them. And then fax it over. That's what it allowed

us whenever we faxed information over, like I just made up the number. So they've got the ID and a car. They think they like when the hotel sees it's like okay cool. Now a fax machine for you children is a device that basically is like scanning. It's like scanning a document. and then you can and then but it automatically sends it yes so you scan it as opposed to now you just take a picture with your phone and it's yeah but not your phone scans yes they don't know that they they're young they they they think they listen my my favorite video is when the father asks these two kids who are like 14 and 15 years old he gives them an old rotary phone and he says dial this phone number and i think he tells them something like i'll give you a hundred dollars if within

the next five minutes you can figure out how to dial this phone number and the kids are trying to dial the phone number on the dial with the rotary phone. Like they were like, okay, so the first number is like eight. So they eight, okay. Okay, no, look, you hang it up. And then they hang it up. Okay, so, and they, and the kids like, no, no, no. He's like, no, you hang it up because that's like inter.

That's like inter. So like, it's like one enter. That's how they used to do. Like, they're trying to, and the fathers, like the adults in the room are going, this is insane. Like they can't use a rotary phone. So you can imagine you say facts. People are like, I don't understand.

They can't use a rotary phone. I want to see that video. Oh, it's hilarious. My friend Stacey said her friend went into the bank the other day to open a checking count for her son. And they pull out the card for him to sign the signature card. And the kid writes out his name. The guy goes here, sign here. And he goes, okay, so he writes out his name.

And he goes, no, no, you have to sign your name, your signature. And he goes, what's that? What do you mean? Because they don't teach cursive anymore. No. So the kid who's like 15 or 16 years old has no idea what a signature is. is he's never because you don't have to sign it he writes his name and they sat there so the mother had to like go home and show him how to sign his name in cursive yeah bro yeah

it's a different world yeah it's horrible it's a different world so yes on the run yes so we were on the run i mean we we all got caught caught up for this eventually we went to jail and did time in in Georgia, you know, Madison got a charge in Florida behind, like, getting a taxi with card numbers that I had. I mean, like, we were, that's why I say the credit card fraud. So here's what kills me. So you guys have hundreds of thousands of dollars at this point. You've got a chunk of money. Yes, with the bill pay. We had a chunk of money. And you're still stealing, hotel rooms, never paid. Never paying with your own money, ever. So if it's 50 bucks, here, give them a credit card.

If we're going to the restaurant and it's $30, give him a credit card. Like, when you're directly involved, like I've never done that. To me, it's like, here's my scam, and that's separate. I live as Matt Cox, and I pay all my bills with cash or with real money that's in a bank account that says Matt Cox. Like, I'm all my, everything, if I go in on buying a T-shirt or something, I use Matt Cox. I use, you know, it's always with a credit card that's in money. It's always me. I always separate those two things because I don't want one to link directly to me.

Like if something goes wrong over there, I don't want it finding me here. Well, you know who taught me that, Matt, a police officer because I got arrested because, just like I said, I used to have everything come to my house. Right. And so when I got the card numbers, initially my electric bill was due and they were going to turn it off. So I took a card number and I paid the electric. bill. Right. So what happened is when the police officer came to my job and arrested me, just to make

sure I got fired, he put me in the car and he said, you're stupid. Excuse me? He goes, you're stupid. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you took a stolen card and paid your electric bill. Right. Which means it made it very easy for me to track it down to you. He said, if you were smart, what you would have done was took in the stolen card, paid somebody

else's electric bill, took that money. and use it to pay your electric bill. Right. And I said, next time. Next time. Did you say, did you go,

I hear you? Yes. I'm with you. Yes. Next week, when I bond out, that's what I'll do. On a scale that made me $60,000.

You're on the upper. You're on the upper part of that IQ scale. That IQ scale, I can see that. You might have slipped in at one at 111. That's right. thank you sir changed up my hole

because I'm thinking I don't know why I didn't think about that and that's what led to what I called the bill pay where we were paying bills and it was so bad that for Duke Electric in St. Pete that they threaten people like we will

actually we won't turn your electricity back on unless you tell us who paid your bill right and then yeah they didn't they didn't Because what had happened was there was so many bills to pay that I actually hired runners. So I would pay, like you're a producer, I would pay him. I say, listen, find some people who need their bills paid.

We'll charge them half of the amount of the bill. You get half, I get half. So if it's a $400 bill, you charge them $200. You keep $100, I get $100. So now the people who don't even know me, they know a runner. If anybody's going down, it's Colby. Yes. And I'm okay with that.

You're right. I mean, if I have to sacrifice my freedom, I mean, if Colby has to sacrifice his freedom for me to get 100, get one-fourth of a bill, then what the hell? That's what's going to happen. That's what's going to happen. And life's about sacrifice with Colby. And that's what we did. That's what we did.

All right. And that's what I was going to tell you is like, so we used junkies. This is, this is- I could hear Colby calling me on the phone. I'd be like, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you. Who is this? Don't call me anymore, criminal. We use...

I should hang it up. Like, you know, like, it's like, like, people don't even know what that is. Like, kids, like, you're like, and then I, oh, I hung up and they're like, what do you? Like a phone, like a... They ask kids, like, act they're going to call somebody and they don't do this. They don't do this. Oh, really? So I'm talking to them.

What's this? I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that. It's my cell phone. It's my cell phone. These things suck to talk on the phone. how many times I turn around and I'm like doing all kinds of crap my face is like it's checked it's my face has jumped into my my Wells Fargo app and I'm like I'm looking through scrolling

for yeah yeah I know what you're talking about I'm three months behind now and I'm like what did I buy four months ago so all right anyway so I this is where I learned that we can have runners and other people to do our bidding which keep us at a safe distance. distance. These are like, these are learning points that are happening as we are expanding what we're doing. Right. Which is kind of keeping us semi safe because we do, we do go to jail based on like our friend Chris that I was telling about that followed us up there. He ended up going to jail and he ended up telling on us. No. Yes. Fucker. Fucking snitch. No good. And we were doing snitches. We, yeah. We did a six month up there. We did a six month. It's like six months

was like my norm. That was how much say six months, six months. So we did a six month bid up there. No, I did. I'm going to go ahead and sentence to you to six months. Yeah. Six months, right, right? That's always taught me a lesson. Yeah. Yeah. So I did six months. Anyway, I'm in and out of jail. And in, in that jail, one time I learned some guy taught me about how to do the business checks. It's where he advised me that. that he would cash business checks. Somebody was bragging the cash business checks. They'd get them and kind of start,

like they'd get a business check for like Ace Hardware and then they would start something called Ace Hardware Delivery. And then they would take that business check and deposit it in their account, especially with like $7 or $8,000. Right. I'm like, are you serious? He goes, yeah, just kind of come up

with a company name that's close, paid $80, $90, $110 to start the business. Then open up a bank account and then just drop it in the account. I'm like, well, how did you get caught? He goes, well, I opened up the business in my name and dropped it in the account. You're an idiot. Yeah, well, yeah.

So if I can do that around, you know, I had ways around that. Right. But my key question to him was, well, where are you getting the business check? He go, oh, I get him out of the mailbox. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah, you drive to a business park and go in their mailbox. He goes, you just grab the business mail. I'm like, but that's at nighttime.

He's like, dude, you don't know how businesses work? It's dark. Yeah. He goes, you don't know how businesses work? I'm like, what do you mean? he says the businesses check the mail in the morning when they come in in the morning that's when they grab the mail because the person who gets the mail

actually processes the mail throughout the day is normally the reception that answers the phone that's her job in the morning she goes through the mail and gives the accounts receivable to accounts receivable accounts payable accounts payable you know and that's the checks are in there right no or if there's if they're a company paying bills they'll just take it and then at the end of the day they just drop into the thing, that may not get picked up for a day or so.

So, I mean, open my, that's what I'm saying. It was like, and so when I got out and Madison got out, we understood that and put that together and started doing that. So then to open up accounts, what I needed was somebody to open the account. So I didn't want to use their names. That's when we came up with the idea of like other inmates. So while I was in there, one of the other things I did was. Just when you wrote the letter at the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.

letter from the looking that was one of them or when when I was in there I was stealing people's identity anyway because well do tell tell about how you were getting the identities from the inmate right in the letter the P.O. Bach where you said well I I did I did multiple ways I wrote form like I did a letter saying that President Bush has offered the second chance act and we think that you qualify depending on whether you grew up below the poverty line so they write they write a letter yes they write a letter to that from the Department of Justice

and then you send it out to inmates. Send it out to inmates like five inmates in an institution, not a bunch, just pick a couple of them and then they'd send it in

they would mail it to appeal box. You said what was like 30 years or 20 years life sentences, stuff like that. Been in for about 10, 12 years. They'd bail it back and we'd get the letter.

Then we get letters from people who were, well, you know, I didn't receive a letter but I think I grew up below the poverty. You know, so it was just a ton of information

like where you were born, whatever we needed to get their birth certificate. Right. So you mailed the letter. Yes. Whatever. You mailed out. You said, like I remember you told me this, you said you mailed out like a hundred of them or something. You thought you were going to get back maybe 10 or 20. Yeah. And how made you get back? Like 95.

Really probably about a hundred. Out of a hundred. Out of a hundred something. Get back to like 95. Because everybody wants out of there. Like, yes, give me part of that act. And by the way, part of the form that they had to fill out was their date of birth. Social Security number. Yes. Full name. mother where they were born mother mother all everything i needed to get everything you need to get their birth certificate and become them social security card and become them maybe registered a vote in their

name whatever you need whatever it takes whatever it took and i be i became that person and that's the person who's despicable i am that's the person who would start the business and i would drop the check and and so that's what we so we started using like drug users what if that guy with the life sentence got an additional charge do you feel bad about that at all Well, he has a license. He can just, I mean, consecutive. I mean, you want to run a concurrent or consecutive? It doesn't matter.

I'm not getting out, you know. So. So that's when I started using inmates and different people's information. All right. Another thing we were doing that my wife would tell you she's very proud of is we had a person that worked at one of the large banks who used to give us credit card numbers and access to credit accounts, right? And she did that because we did.

did something called instant credit. So when she worked in, I think it was like Bank of America, one of the banks, she would give us information because people's beacon score would come up. So she would sell us that information. I think I paid her, I paid her a lot of money. I paid her so much money that I remember she called me all the time and say, hey, I need some money. I got six of them for you. Like she, what I noticed about my wife and I when it came to that scam is that we actually paid because we had a gay guy that would bring us card numbers. He worked at a hotel

and we paid him $100 per card number and he brought us card numbers like 1,500. We go, how many you got? I got 20. So we'd come meet him and give him $2,000. It's like he knew we were money so he would bring him. That's the guy that had the friend that worked in

the fraud department of Bank of America You're saying that because a lot of guys will get a contact and then fuck over the contact. Yes. I mean, it just... It was amazing. And so the fact that we paid that they were very loyal and they called all the time. Right.

So this girl that worked with us, she could get us people with Beacon Score. Now, at that time, I think we had an ID guy in California that would make IDs for us. And that helped with the rental car thing. Everything helped with the rental car. But that's neither here or there. So he made IDs for us. So what he would do is, if you had an 800-Barrs, beacon score, I would get an ID made up in your name, right? And I would go to somewhere like Target.

Target was our favorite place because Target was given out instant credit. So Target, you would go to the counter and say, hey, I want to apply for the Target card. They would enter in your social and your date of birth. And if you got approved, they would print you out a receipt that you could walk around and they could scan the receipt because the receipt was like a credit card. And they would bill your card. Instant credit was something new. So we used to get these. So there were holes. Huh? It was new, so there were some holes in the system.

Yes. So we would get a fake ID, go in and apply for credit and get like $10,000. So we, of course, we get Target cards and we'd buy a bunch of stuff. That's how we furnish most of, like, the houses and the apartments we had with Target. And then Target had a grocery store that we could eat off of the card. Horrible. Then we found out that Best Buy and Circuit City had instant credit, but what they would do is they would ask you, they had a loop of security where they would ask you questions

that only might, you would know. Like they'd ask you what, what color was the 2002 Chevrolet that you owned? Right. You know, things like, what color was your Cherokee? What do you have a, me now? Yeah. Yeah. Like a Jeep, it's a Jeep, uh, sport or something like that? Or something compass, I got a compass. So they would say, because you would register the tag, they say, Matt, What color was the Jeep compass that you owned? It's white. Right. And see, I wouldn't know that if I stole your identity.

You would know that. So what happened was- But you didn't know that. Yes. Because you had Lexis Nexus. Yes. I had a person that would give us LexisNexis reports on people for 150 bucks. So we'd give him money and we'd get the Lex Nexus report on all these people with 800 beacon scores.

And this is when you're wearing the mic, the earpiece. The earpiece. So he's got an earpiece is his wife's outside or something. It was corded. It wasn't even. cordless. So they would have it in their shirt and around their ear and in their ears so they're walking in like this. Yeah, they didn't even, the people didn't see it. No, look at the cord. Listen, we go, can you, can you see it? No, I don't see the cord at all. Oh, man. Listen. And so,

especially like if they had long hair or a hat on, whatever. So we'd go in and the guy would say, okay, we need you to answer the phone, the call or they'd be on the call with the people verifying and my wife would feed you the answer. It's like every barrier. It's like there was always a way around it. There was always a contact. It got us around everything. It's fun. It's a challenge to try and figure out how to get around these things. Yeah. So that's what we ended up. That was so popular that we used to furnish, we did that to furniture stores to furnish people's homes. The fear was if they delivered the furniture, they'd know where you live. So what we do is we just rent U-Hauls. and be like, okay, so you're getting $14,000 worth of furniture.

What do we deliver that? We'll pick it up at your warehouse. Right. You're not delivering shit. That way, when we leave with the furniture, bye-bye. Yeah, we'll see you again. So what happened when you were getting the IDs, you were getting that? What was, so how did that expand?

And into what me? Well, well, I'm wondering, yeah, I'm wondering like, well, we're living. Are you still getting, did you get arrested again at this point? Or, or, um, well, that was the one arrest at Sears. Oh, yeah, yeah. So tell, so tell the Sears one. I thought I, did I tell that. You did that. The problem is I noticed you're skipping over stuff. You have to understand that that's a completely different video. So, so you have to, not everybody that has watched that

video will watch this video. Well, that, that culminated into an arrest at, at Sears. So usually all of these I told you about, especially with dealing with the credit, culminated into an arrest. Like the one me culminated into an arrested sears and the business checks, no, the hotel rooms culminated into an arrest in Tampa. You know, the business checks culminated into an arrest in Cobb County. Yeah, so it's like each one of them. Yeah, you keep getting caught. Yes, because it's like I would do the same thing over there. We were lousy at it like this.

I mean, we had a lot of fun. It's just the problem is, is that every once in a while something goes wrong. This was important because when the instant credit ended up in our arrest, like when I got to the prison,

like I'd get up in the morning and I'd walk back and forth and I was telling myself, I'm like, okay, this getting arrested over and over again is ridiculous. This has to stop. Not the crime.

The crime can't stop because I'm good at it. It's getting arrested. It does have to stop. Hey, I have a question. I have a question. So did the guy from the rental car company show up yet? No.

This all is around, wasn't me, and it's the next. Okay. All of this culminate. Because when, okay, so the rest at Sears happened when we were in the Sears store doing, we were doing a 60-year-old guy, and I'm like in my 30s, because I'm in my 50s now, but I couldn't pass for 60 back then. So you were, you were, you were. I was pretending to be a 60-year-old, and I'm like 34, 37 or something like that.

Right. So we're in Sears. We decided to go to the Sears in the mall. So we go to the Sears in the mall, and we're playing a 60-year-old person. The person gets approved for credit. I think what we wanted was a washer and dryer. Right. So we get approved for the washer and dryer, but he got approved for $10,000.

And when you do the Wheel of Fortune, because that's what we would do at Best Buy. We do the Wheel of Fortune. Like, somebody gets approved for $10,000. So you say, okay, I'll take the 70-inch T-inch T-10. screen. Okay, that's 3,500. Yeah, 6,500 left. All right. Let me get the microwave oven. That's $1,000. It's a $5,500 left. All right. It was the wheel of fortune. Like, you pick out things, you would get the 10 grand. Yeah, I'm running this all the way after 10. No, I'm leaving any money on the table. That's right. I'm taking it. You still have $75. Okay, I'll take those

two cup, right? Two cup holders. All right. So, we got approved for the washing and dryer $10,000. But the wash and dryer was like $5,000, $38, $48, $48. 800. So we're like, hey, let's look around and find something else that we want. So we're in the store. So we got approved. They've approved it and they're supposed to be put in the wash and dry on the dock. We're going to come back later and pick it up. So rather than leaving, right, we decide to stay in the store and stop. So we're walking around looking for things and I spoke with somebody. And like I always can tell when someone's nervous or something's wrong because they go to shaking. So the person I was talking to was shaking.

Right? So I'm like, okay, I think we need to leave. So I've separated from Madison. So I'm trying to find her. We have cell phones. I call her up and we meet up. When I meet up with her, first thing she tells me is like, I think we need to get out of here. I said, I agree with you. So we decide to leave. So we're walking.

So somebody tries to come and talk to us. Hey, we wanted to show you this area such and such. I said, we're going to go to the bathroom. We'll be right back. Right. But they didn't want us to leave. It's kind of like, well, wait, wait, wait, but there's a bathroom over. I'm like, no, no, no, no, we're going to go to the bathroom, and we'll be back.

So we go out the front door. We make beeline to our car. We don't run. We beeline to the car. We get into the car. As we get into the car, I'm like, we're talking about, I got the weird feeling such as such. I look and I see police sirens and cars coming. It's like, it's a parking lot, so you see them on their way to the one entrance to the parking lot.

So I start, I'm like, oh, you know, gut. sinking. I start the car, put it in drive, and get ready to pull in. So we're about to pass the police cars. So the first car comes in and we're going past them. The second one comes in and we're about to go to the entrance and they're running out of the store screaming. Ah! That's right there. So they point us out so the police cars turn around and they're hitting a horn honking and the third car to come in because we're about to pull out. The third car to come in he blocks us in because i'm i'm i'm a complete bitch when he comes always instead of like backing up and trying to make it get oh i'm not yeah you're not out running them no so i'm

scared they're going to shoot you know but yeah it just makes it would just make it worse anyway now i'm gonna slow speed chase on 75 you know in a white bronco and so i i stop and then they arrest us put us on the ground and they they take us in but that was the instant that was the Did you tell him to be careful with you? I'm 65. I'm an old man. I'm 60, damn it. All right.

So when I go to jail for that, me and her go to jail. When I go to jail, and I think her parents disowner at that point, it's like, look, you and this guy. This guy's a problem. We told you. I mean, do you like jail? What the hell is going on? First of all, she's, she's, uh, she's, uh, what? She's, she's a white Jewish.

right right so you were not what they wanted for their daughter to begin with and then you didn't turn around and become a lawyer and prove them all wrong you were like is what corruption first of all I'm a black guy but that's just a small part of what's coming down the fight you've never been so right about a decision watch this you've never been so right that's horrible that's horrible Thank you. Thank you, sir. Good times. So I, yes, great times.

So I go to jail and I'm in jail and I'm pacing back and forth and I'm like, okay. This is ridiculous. I'm constantly going to jail. How do I not go to jail for this? And I come up with the fact that I probably need people to do stuff for me. I've got to stop being firsthand. I've got to have people do things for me. You need a block.

I need people to take the fall for me. Correct. That's the problem. Also, which I, yes. And what I left out was, you know, I met with the guy from the Bank of America. Okay. Right. And he's the one that introduced me to the what me.

Right. So at this point, the person that's got worse at the bank that's getting credit card information is selling you. they put you in contact with someone that works in the fraud department right and that person in the fraud department when i met with him i was trying to ask him how do i fraud the bank right like like how if i get someone's account number you know if i order checks you do understand how it how amazing it is that you went so far i mean you you turn this and it's funny because i was talking to this other guy won sanchise and it's like there are some guys that do crime like they kind of you know they they

They get enough money. So this is what most guys do, and you'll know this. They hit a lick, and then they stop until they've used up that money. They hit another lick. And then you have guys that say, no, no, this is the industry that I work in. And I'm going to work this as a job. And I'm just going to keep piling up the money. I'm not doing it and using it up and then doing it again.

No, no, I'm not surviving. This is my industry. right this is what I do and so you know and and so they start to do things to hone their skills and to get better and better and better at it now that's really what the feds is for that's what it's supposed to be you're supposed to be in the federal system I'm supposed to be the federal is that one is supposed to be like and then of course I meet the you have then you have state criminals but you know that that's what's funny is because like you don't you you always when we talk you're always like you're always like yo so then I did this And I'm like, right, I understand that. But a normal person is always like, even other criminals are like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa, like you, you did what? Because they don't think, you know, you actually said, I got the person in the bank already, which is insane. Now I'm actually going to that person and saying, okay, listen, I need to talk to someone in the fraud department. Like, who the fuck does that?

No, no, I need to expand. I need to tighten up my system. I need to go ahead and I need to figure this out. Like, you took the extra step of having a guy meet you at like a Sony's, you said, or something. that I forget and paying him to go ahead and let me interview him right and the matter of fact whenever I dealt with his and this was a gay guy and it was his partner so his partner was giving us card numbers because he worked in a hotel and so he would come to our car and Madison or my wife would ask who's that in the car he go oh that's my boyfriend you know but

he doesn't want to tell you don't go anywhere near you guys because he worked in the fraud department at Bank of America I'm like really nice but he was a afraid of us. Yeah. You know, he's like, you don't want to get in trouble. Right. So I'm like, but I want to talk to him. So we offered him like $2,000 to talk to us.

If he would just give us an hour, 30 minutes of its time at a restaurant and talk to us. So he agreed. So when he agreed to do that, I sat down and I asked him about what I was doing and like some of the ideas I had. Like the idea was if I can get someone's bank account number and routing number, can't I order checks from a second party company? All kind of questions of how they. process, the check, everything, and he was answering them, and he was telling me,

that I short lived, that will go through this, and this is the verification. So we answered my questions, which all was basically what I knew. So after it was over and done with, I'm kind of like, okay, well, I really didn't gain anything. Yeah, I haven't really learned anything I didn't already know. I just blew $2,000, you know? So I asked him, I said, well, all right, well, can you think of anything that might be useful that I could use that I didn't think to ask you? And he said, well, he explained to me that customers get one faux, is what he calls it.

He says that if you were to open an account, take money out of that account, right, and then call us and tell us that it wasn't you that took that money. He goes, the bank is obligated to pay you back. Right. I said, oh, okay, that sounds about right, because I've known all my victims to get paid. back. He goes, yeah, but even if it's obvious that somebody didn't steal that money. Right. So I said, what do you mean? He goes, the other day I had a call from a guy

and every day he visited an ATM machine and pulled money. Right. Right. And on a day he pulled the he pulled the money yesterday and then he called me the day after to say hey, that wasn't me to did that transaction. Right? But I'm saying to myself,

but every day you go to that same machine. So on this day, was it you? Yes. On this day, wasn't you? Yeah. But yesterday it wasn't you. Yeah. And he told his manager that he's like, I think he did it. Imagine it doesn't matter. We got to give him the money back if you claim that.

Give him, issue him a new card and give him his money back. Regardless, it's also the Electronic Transfer Act, right? Right. Exactly. So they issued him a new card and gave him the money back. So he told me that, right? And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, okay. But I had to process it in my mind to turn it.

I'm like, yeah, you didn't immediately turn it into a scam. You just thought, okay, interesting to know. Right. Thank you, blah, blah, when they left. And then it hit me. It's like, oh, this guy's telling me that if I took money out of my account and told the bank that it wasn't me to take the money out of the account, they're going to give me that money back. Right.

So I'm explaining that because we get in the car and my wife like, well, that seemed like it didn't go. And I'm like, well, I go, think about what he just told us. So our concept of that was. So we went and pulled the money out of her account immediately, which was postal money orders. And she went to the bank and said, hey, that wasn't me that took that money out of the account. And they put it right back. Nice. And then you said, did she deposit the money back?

Yes. Then she actually deposited the postal money orders back in the same account. Right. That they had just given her the money back. Right. Like that's just, you know, I want to give her credit. and say, that's ballsy, but I'm thinking it's just stupid. No, I think it's ballsy.

That's totally fucking, like, why take that risk? But anyway, so. So we, that's nothing. So go ahead. All right. So that concept's in my mind, and I haven't acted on it. I just know I have that concept. I think we did like one or two things.

But once I went to jail for the instant credit and I'm walking the pier, like I'm asking myself of what do I need to do because I'm tired of going to jail. I'm like, okay, obviously I'm not a good criminal. So either I need to become an excellent criminal or I need to stop. Right. So that's what I'm pacing back and forth. And then I

tell myself, I'm like, here is the answer. Not only do I need to not be the person doing it, but I also need to commit the crime where the police don't get called. Or I'm the person that calls the police. If I'm both the person,

perpetrator and the victim. Yeah, there's no, there's no crime. There's no crime. Right. And even if there is a crime, it certainly doesn't lead to you. Right. So that's what I put together as a concept. And that's when I started telling myself, okay, once we get out of this, here are the steps

that I need to make to put all that together to build on that. Right. And that's what happened when we had that two-year run when we got out. and purchased the home in Tennessee, Georgia, and Utah. Okay. Bought cars and everything, a Ford Focus. That's what... That's the one that turns into the one-and-mee scam.

Right. All right. Tell me about the one-me-me-scam. That's the one that's the good one. Well, once I realized that they actually do that based on law, it dawned on me that if I could do this multiple times, then I could make a mint. So like for the five grand or four or five thousand that we just got, if I could set up and do that like four or five times a month, that's $20,000, $25,000.

So I'm asking myself, how do you set up to do something like that? I mean, turn it into a mill, like start McDonald'sizing the product, turning into an assembly line. Yes. So in order to do that, obviously I need multiple people, you know, opening up multiple accounts. So I found out through checks systems that you can open up three bank accounts within a six-month period without them flagging the banks

that you're possibly going to kite checks. If you open up the fourth account, check system tells the bank, hey, this guy just opened up four accounts. Not only did they contact the fourth bank, but they contact the other three banks that you've been into to say, hey, this guy just opened up a bunch

and all of them will close it. Like, oh, you might be catting, you know, where you write one check to one bank and the other. Yeah, it's a derogatory term, but that's fine. Kitis, yeah, it is, but for checks. I don't know. Go ahead.

But, so I had to, I went through a process of trying to, like you say, make this into a mill. Not million, but into where I'm going to. Actually, make it into a mill. It is mill. It is mill. So I tried a lot of different things. So obviously that between me, and my wife Madison, we could only get three accounts apiece. So once we go through that,

then it's kind of like, okay, well, maybe we ask other people to do it for us. So we talked to somebody. We had this one guy named Will where we're telling him like, look, this is what we're going to do. You're going to open up three accounts. We're going to put money in one of the accounts, right, and take the money out and then put it in the second account and take it out, put it in a third account. So it's going to be like $4,000. So once we take all the accounts out, you're going to have like, you're going to have three accounts. So it's going to be like 12 or 15,000. We're going to split it $7,000 apiece. All right. So we put the $4,000 in the account. And he took, well, he took the money out, right? And then he left. He kind of, like, I call

him up like, hey, you got that $4,000 out. Right? He goes, yeah, I got it. I'm like, okay, I need you to deposit it in the next account. Quiet. I'm like, Will, I need you to deposit the money in the next account so that we can take that out also. Yeah.

Will's like, I ain't never had this much money in my life. So you're going to take $4,000 instead of just waiting another day or two and getting $7,000. Right. And that was his logic. And so that was one of the turning points

where I realized that the people I was dealing with were kind of strung out on drugs. And there is a reason why he's never seen that much money is because he doesn't know how to manage money. It started opening my eyes because while I'm in jail, when you're in the county jail and you're talking to different criminals, they tell these fantastic stories and give you the impression

like, hey, you're a well-p-p-together person. Right. Off drugs. Yes. Once you get in an environment where you can have drugs in your system, you are a awfully, completely terrible put-together person. You're not even put-together at all. And that's what I started learning.

Because what was happening is I was recruiting, because once I came up with the concept, I knew I'm going to need people to carry this out. So I started getting people's names, and I would keep in touch with them when I got out. to either monitor them or find out when they got out just to help them out. And dealing with them just tend to be of one type of assault after another. I just, it was like complete failures.

And we had a lot of bad stories because what I then realized is maybe these people aren't good for putting the work or having them open up bank accounts. So I felt like maybe I'll just use their identity rather than actually using the person then I'll just use their identity. Right. So then I started offering to purchase and buy the information I needed to become them. Right. You know, like, hey, what's your mom?

And some people, you know, you might have to promise a few hundred dollars. It might have to give them some money up front and the back end. Some people would give it to you for a cup of coffee. Well, I'll give you all my information for a cup of coffee. What's? How about two cups, Joe? Yeah. I like you.

Yeah. And some people would just, just give it to you for nothing. Hey, use mine. I'm a shit. I don't have anything in life. And they don't have to be perfect to get a bank account.

So it's like they're not using, they've already got bad credit. They've already got whatever. My only question was, have they ever had a bank account? Back then, like bank accounts have only become very, very easy to get.

Back in like early 2000s or in the 90s, you had to have good credit. Like there was a lot of banks that weren't taking just any, right right so back in that era it was just as a matter of fact of whether you ever screwed over a bank so when I asked a lot of those guys from jail they have had a bank account they're like no I never had a bank account in my life well then I automatically knew of multiple banks that would give you an account just because you've never had one some banks are are very picky and some are just like hey

long as you haven't screwed a bank over come on so how did you how did you go how'd you get like how'd you start getting these people's stuff? Like, I mean, you had a system or was it multiple? Well, I had to come up. Well, once I got out, I might have had a list of 10 or 12. And so what would happen is I would get their information and I would go and get an ID in their name. And either myself or my wife would become these people. And then we'd open up accounts.

So this is where the mill started. It was her and I. Right. And you've got someone who's making your IDs. No, no, no. I would go to the DMV. I would just actually order. the birth certificate online. Nice. Nice. Right. And then make up a W2. I'd have a machine that made up a

W2 or whatever, whatever document they needed, like a bill. I used to, um, um, Photoshop. So I would Photoshop a direct TV bill. Yeah. And you alter it. Yeah. Yeah. So I can have the new address and name that I wanted. So I would go into the DMV with my birth certificate, a bill, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, A W-2, whatever I needed to get an ID in that person's name. Once I got an ID in their name, I'd go get the Social Security card, and then I would go back and maybe get the driver's license. It was a transformation. But all I needed from the person is just the information to get the birth certificate.

Everything else was creatable. And by the way, direct TV, I had to do that one because different states and counties have different power companies. So if you did an electric bill, you know, they go, we need a bill. Well, I had to have a bill that was universal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like it's not Georgia Power or it's Tampa Electric or it's, yeah, Florida Power. Yeah, it's it's all right TV, which is everywhere. And that's a bill. That's a utility bill. So that's what that's what was happening. So it was initially it was my wife and I and we would go out open up to a three. So we would take a trip like to Ohio. We'd fly to Ohio. Open up. I see that. Flat Ohio open up three accounts. Like I'd become someone and she'd become someone. We'd open up three accounts apiece. right so in three different banks three different banks so that's six accounts we put five thousand dollars in each account take it out um hey call up and say that we're not the person that took the money and you got 30 grand we got 30 grand all right so that was and that was in a trip where we

take we'd be there like four days and make that much money and come back so what i understood was this is this is all this is cool and this is fun but it doesn't have to be me to go out. I could actually, maybe there's a way that I can franchise this and double my production. So what if it's me and my wife and maybe you and someone else? So then the question became, who else could I recruit? Right. You've got to be able to talk these people into it. Right. Who else could I recruit to go out and do this? And let's say we split it. Right. So if I, if I can, really in my mind, if I can get five groups, you know, 30 times five is 150. I'm looking 75, I can do 75,000 a month.

You know, a couple of months of this, and I'm pretty much sad. Yeah. You know, that was my mindset. So in the path of doing this, I ran into a lot of trouble. I ran into, this is when it's solidified that the problem with American crime is probably drugs. Probably most people are criminals to support a drug habit. Right. And that's what I kind of found out.

And those people cannot have money or they're not capable of doing what my wife and I was doing. Because when my wife and I would take a trip, we would get on a flight, we would land, get into a rental car, take the rental car, check into a nice or decent hotel, right? And then we would go out and open up bank accounts, which means presenting to professional people. Right. Like doing that seemed, oh, this is easy. Right, but not to these guys. Not to these guys. So you take an average crackhead, just the average.

Wait a minute. Where are you finding these guys? Well, initially we were dealing with drug dealers and asking for volunteers. We had an Amos and Mary, and there's stories behind that. Any volunteers? Do you have? Make 5,000? Yeah, I got nothing to do this weekend.

Yeah. Um, and then what, all right, so what I was going to say is, like, we had some problems taking volunteers from the drug dealers. Like, so this might get edited. You want me to cover a couple of those problems and then go into what made me go into the courthouse? That's what I'm asking. Yeah. Okay, that's what I was going to do, because when I, when I took the drug users, right, I had a lot of problems with them. Yeah.

And that's when I said, okay, maybe there's a different caliber. but maybe we need to like trying to find something. Maybe instead of recruiting people that have drug problems, why not recruit people that have maybe in our line of work? Yeah, that are already in the fraud industry. Right. So that's where my mind was going, but I didn't know if you want to be like,

where are you to get to the courthouse, motherfucker? Yeah, well, because I find that fascinating that you eventually actually walked into, you have to understand that most people don't get to this level. And on top of that, Most people, if you said, hey, I know where you can get these people, you can go to the court room and you can do this. And this, they'll be like, well, I'm not doing that. Like, they don't want to walk into a court. Like, you know, most, most criminals are like, they're, they're really scared. Yeah. Especially of the unknown where I'm ready to walk in and have an argument with someone. Like, what do you mean? I can't go in there. What do you talk about? You can't keep me from going into that. I'm a family. I got a family member on the outside. Well, anyway, on the outside, they have a list of people for first appearance. Right. Perfect. Hey, Joe, I'm Joe Johnson's brother. Yeah.

I want to know what his bond is. Right. So. I'm here for support. Right. Go fuck yourself. Officer. You know, they're going to do anything.

Yeah. So, yeah. So that's what I was asking. So for the sake of the story, I was going to tell some of the problems I had with the drug, which is the girls. Oh, they're going to tell me the girl. Tell me the girl drug dealers. I love that.

I love that. I love that. And then I was going to get into, okay, I'm trying to find a higher caliber. Now, tell me about the girls. Tell me the girls. This is what happened to the girls, Colby. This is good shit. This is hilarious.

All right. Well, there are, so when you're dealing with drug addicts, there becomes multiple problems. First is their appearance. So you might have to buy them some clothes, beg them to shower. And then you have to accept the fact that they have no front teeth and pray that somebody in the bank doesn't go, what in the world? Are you cashing an $8,000 check and you have no teeth? So, so, how did you meet some of these girls?

Some of these girls. Well, it was usually girls and guys. I purchased identities. I had little runners in the prison that would actually get me identities of people who didn't have bank accounts. So we were paying. So we were paying $1,000 per identity. So each identity we would buy, I'd have to have somebody set up, somebody on the outside that would go and open up three accounts so that we can hit those accounts. See, this is different for me at him.

Like, I would, like you were going up and saying, look, this is what's going on and this is what you're getting into. And you would lay it all out and tell them exactly. And I'm going to pay you a fair wage of $1,000. That's a fair trade for what I'm going to do to your credit because it's going to ruin your ability to get a bank account and everything. You're telling them all that up front. Right. Whereas I said, hey, I'm taking a survey for the Salvation Army and I'm paying them all of $20. And they're thanking me for giving me there and for all.

the information I need to steal your identity and open up as many bank accounts as I want borrow millions of dollars in your name and I'm going to give you $20. Nice, Matt, you're generous. Well, but the people I'm dealing with are locked up and a lot of them were doing life. So they're like, hey, you can have it. I don't need it. I'll eat good next week on the grand. So after getting the identities, I started going to drug dealers and asking for drug users. We had a group one called Amos and Mary that was an older couple and it's it it became where if you sent them somewhere or you'd have to place them somewhere to live like they didn't have anywhere to live so immediately once you agree yes we'll work for you all right cool all right so but tonight

I need somewhere to stay it's like yeah but you're leaving Friday yeah but I don't have anywhere to stay for the next two nights so so you'd have to put them up in a hotel right if you booked them a flight or someone to go to go somewhere you have to arrange for them to get to the airport. God forbid if you rent any of these people cars because it's not their car, they're not used to driving. So I've had some of those drug dealers where they wrecked the car, where they turn the car in and the rental car company is like,

you want to explain to me what happened to our car? Like why you didn't call the police once you wrecked the car? I'm like, oh, because when I did this, I set all this up like a corporation and a business account. So I was paying for your ticket. I had a business account paying for your car rental. I had a business account paying for your hotel room. Granted, I was using stolen credit cards for the hotel room, but it looked like it was a business.

Right. So we also had another couple called Shane and Andra, and they were strung out very bad. We flew them. I'll never forget this. They were in Cincinnati, Ohio. And my wife and I are at home in bed. The next morning was going to be their first day opening accounts. Usually they spent the first day getting their IDs in order and then the next day they were going to open accounts.

So after they got their ID in order, I've been on the phone with him. My wife and I are at home were chilling and I get a phone call from the hotel. And the guy's like, it's like he didn't even, it's like he didn't know what to say. So he's like, yeah, is this Zach from Zach Corp? And I'd say yes. Zach from Zach? Whatever. I mean, whatever I made up.

So I go, yes, it is. He says, he goes, you have two employees of your staying here, right? I said yes. So who called you? The hotel manager. Okay. I put them in a nice Hilton downtown Cincinnati.

No, Cleveland. Okay. Because we sent them tickets to go to the rock and roll hall of fame. So it was Cleveland. I'll never forget that. They're like, hey, we want to go to the rock and roll hall of fame? I'm like, well, cool, we'll get your tickets and you can go. Because it's like a trip.

If you're going to go somewhere and work with like, hey, if there's a concert in town. It's not a full-time job. Right, a football game. We'll get you. We'll order tickets on somebody else's credit card. Anything to keep you from driving through a neighborhood and getting crack. In a 2000, in the same year car, a rental car that you want to be luxury. Like in a same year, if it's 2006 in a 2006 escalate, I don't want you in a dub neighborhood telling some crackhead, hey.

I've got cash. Let me get a little bit of that. And they're like, wow, white dude, you do got cash. So the hotel manager calls up and says, you have two employees staying here. He said, I go, yes. He goes, listen. He goes, I don't know if you're aware of this, but I believe your employees have drug problems. What?

That's what I said. I said, what? He goes, yes. He goes, I think both of those people have drug problems. So he goes, listen, he goes, I've had to deal with employees with drug problems. He goes, I'm going to let them stay here tonight, but tomorrow they have to check out. I said, well, I don't understand what's going on. He goes, the girl, we had to stop the girl from walking through the hallways with no top on,

like naked on the top. He goes, they were in the room like fighting or running around. he goes, I've seen the guy just running through the hotel with his underwear on. He goes, he goes, they have problems. Just us talking to him in their sweats, they have drug problems. He goes, I'm not going to call the police, but I want you to know that. So I pick up the phone and I call them up and I tell them and they're like, what? Why would he say something like that?

Because that is true. That's he tells me, goes, that's not true. I don't even know why he would even say something like that. I'm like, the hotel man. manager just decided to call up and cost himself money and lie about you guys because he decided when you checked in he hated your guts yeah like I don't like you so I'm gonna call your job and tell him you've got drug problems yeah I'm gonna risk my job for that the drug dealers make really horrible liars a drug user drug users sorry drug users yes yes they make horrible so

well this is the story that you liked so going to the drug this is when I was in the midst of using drug users. Right. One day I was going to send a Western Union to someone. I can't remember who it was. And it was at a store right up the street from my house. So I'm at the store and I'm standing in line and in front of me there are like three women. And because when she got up to the counter, she goes, I'm just trying to see if a Western

Union has arrived yet. And the lady checked it out. She goes, no, it hasn't come yet. She said, all right, no problem. I think I'm filling out the form when they are. when they asked the third time about the way it was like in a 10 minute period right they went up there three times to see if the money came so after I got my money I think I did something where I heard she goes oh yes it did show up and the Western Union they were desperately waiting

on was $20 Jesus and I'm thinking to myself 20 bucks like you're in dire straight three of y'all are in dire straits for 20 bucks for 20 bucks you know so I said to myself Three women. It's not a girl and a guy. Right. You know, maybe them separate. You know what I'm saying? Maybe this different collection of people would be way better than what I've been getting.

Because I normally get girl and guy, maybe both strong. I'm thinking that those two would hold each other together or they would want to be together in a hotel room. Right. And at nighttime, do what they do. And then in the daytime, do what I need them to do. And this is go back to the hotel room at night and do what they do. Right. You know, all those concepts in my head didn't work.

So I propositioned them. I said, I go, ladies, when they got done, I said, can I talk to you guys for a second? They're like, yeah, what's up? I said, how would you guys like to make $100 real quick? And they're like, whoa, when I go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not like that. I said, if you guys will give me 15 minutes to proposition you something, I'll give you $100. I'll give you $100.

Like, I got $100 right here. They're like 15. Where? I said, let's go to McDonald's. Right over here, just let me make you an offer. So I drive over to McDonald's. We go over to McDonald's. And I basically explain to them what's going on.

Like, listen, I need you to go. I'm going to give you some information. You're going to get an ID in someone's name. You're going to open up three accounts. I'm going to put the money in these accounts. And then once the money, you know, just go through the whole process. Then I'm going to take the money out. You're going to walk in.

Someone took my money out of my account. Right. And then at the end, end like it's it's three of y'all so we'll have nine accounts so at the end i do five so i'm looking at about 60 no five times nine i don't know have we ever explained the the actual scam colby okay yeah i don't think you ever really because we know it so well so the actual scam is there this in the simplest sense this is what the scam is i get a fake id i go and i open up an account i put nine thousand in the account.

The bank opened the account, they know there's $9,000 in it. I then order a debit card. They mail me the debit card. I then clone the debit card with a, what is that device, a 305, what is it, 408 scanner? No, it's a, they call it a skimmer.

Yes, skimmer, so whatever. I skim it, so I clone the magnetic. This is pre-chip. Right. This is pre-data chip. Right, so with the magnetic strip, I scan it, you then mail it to Zach in another state

Zach then scans it and makes a clone car or clones the debit card he then goes into a post office or a store or buy money order and buys you can go to the post office and buy a thousand dollar money order so he goes into the post office let's say or any store that sells a thousand dollar money orders

you go and you say I need five or I need eight $1,000 money order so boom boom boom there's $8,000 he then calls me back in the other state and says, I just took the money out of the account. I then walk back into the bank and I say, hey, where I opened the account. And I said, hey, I opened my, you know, or I just, I say, hey, I need to get out a $500. And the teller says, she looks and she goes, sorry, sir, you only have $12 in your account or whatever's left. And you go, well, what are you

talking about? I got $8,000 in that account. And over $8,000. She goes, no, you just took out $8,000. Where? I didn't take out $8,000. She says, looks like in Florida, four or five states away, in Florida, you just took out eight, you just bought something or took out $8,000. Oh my gosh, that's not me. I didn't do it? She says, do you have your debit card? I have my debit card right here.

And she goes, oh gosh, let me let you talk to Sally, the bank manager. You know, now go and talk to Sal and you go, Sally, I opened this account a week ago. And I got, they took my money. And Sally looks, and she says, my God, someone in Florida. 35 minutes ago, took the money out of your account. Couldn't have been me. I'm five states away. So she says, you know what, sir, I'm so sorry.

I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to put the money back in your account. It will be back in your account by tonight at 12 o'clock. So the next day, so the money goes back in, Zach then takes the money out of the account electronically, you know, obviously. He has access to the account online so that the guy can't take them. So I can't take the money. So now Zach has the $8,000. that was originally put into the account and removed through the money orders and he's got the $8,000

that they just put back in the bank. He just doubled his money. I then go back into the bank the next day and I say, listen, I want to close my account. I don't know what you people are doing here, but that really freaked me out. I just want to close the account. You close the account. So it's done. So each person can- So each person does three of those. So that's that if that's $8,000, well, $8,000, that's that's $24,000 off of just one ID. Each person can have. two or three IDs with two or with three IDs three different banks nine banks eight thousand dollars seventy two thousand dollars for one person you can have he'll send out three of them at a time so that's the basic scam it's called wasn't wasn't me i didn't take the money and it's covered

by the electronic transfer act which says they have to give you the money back now they may close the account they may say nah something's going on here and and close the account on you even but they're giving you your money back and that was the scam that he came up with and that's what we're going over right now and I just wanted to clarify it so back to you and these three chicks in the Western Union sorry so no problem so actually those those the funny part about those three chicks is they actually never made it to do anything made never even made so you explain the scam and they're like yeah we're absolutely down so I said okay cool so I call my mom wife she arranges for them to get a rental car so I said

I'm going to take you guys to get a car. So we run over to the rental place. I get them a rental car. And I tell them, look, you guys are going to go to Tennessee. So I'm going to give you some money to jump up. I go, once you, because they had cell phones. Once you guys get to Tennessee, right, I'm going to give you the information you need to open up IDs in these people. At that time, I had already arranged for hundreds of, I wouldn't say hundreds.

I'd say like 50 or 60 IDs. So I could just go back and grab a folder because once I got it. everything I needed for you to become that person, I'd put it in a folder. So I had stacks of folders of ready IDs ready to go. Right. You know, and so all I had to do was go home and pick out three and give it to them. Right. So when I passed that information off, we're in Tennessee. I think I sent them one state over to South Carolina. I'm like, I just want you to go out of state. I'm going to book your hotel room. So they did get that far. They left. They checked into the hotel and everything was kosher. They had the three identities that are ready to go. So I'm thinking the next day

they're going to go get set up. So within that night, within the, I think they left the next day after I met him. So the night after they left, they called me up from South Carolina. And like one of them called me up and she was screaming. Like she's crying, screaming. Like you've got to help us. You need to send help immediately. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. Slowly, what happened and she was barely able to explain to me what happened but she kind of explained that somehow they had given the rental car to a drug dealer right and one of the drug dealers were there they owed money and he beat up one of the girls that was there the other one he took with her he took with him right so it was just her and one other girl and she needed me to come to where

they were in South Carolina, you know, to help them or send them some money so that they could get the other girl back. I'm like, I met you yesterday. You can't hold it together for 24 hours. Now, now. So even if I got you out of that situation, clearly there's another situation coming. Right. You know, so I hung up that phone because I usually talk to people on track phones. Right. I hung up that phone and immediately called to have the number changed. So I told it, listen, listen, give me about 20 minutes and call me back. All right. Beep, beep, beep, beep. Can I change this phone number? It's like I don't want anything else to do with you the rest of my life. Yeah. That's just meeting them. But my whole point behind

that is, it's like dealing with drug addicts would seem to be absolutely impossible. So I kept telling myself, I need to find people to do this because in between all of this, because this went on for about two years, in between all of this, my wife and I, I would take two of them or three, get on the airplane and fly somewhere. Do it yourself. And do it ourselves and not have any problem at all. So in my mind, I kept going, why is it that we don't have any problem and everybody else is having a ton of problems?

Right. And they're drug addicts in general. They just can't function in society, period. Plus, they've got drugs on top of it. They have to get drugs. So something told me I need to fake a better caliber of criminal. Maybe I need someone that's done some fraud. But the problem is, like, how do you meet people who've done fraud?

You don't just walk on, hey, have you done fraud? Have you done fraud? Like, are you FBI? No, I'm not, but have you done fraud? But, you know, so the idea I came up with is, well, first appearance at court is kind of like when you go to first appearance, they kind of read out all of your prior charges. It's like your resume. Yeah, it's like a resume. Your Honor, he's very, very adept at credit card fraud.

We've got a bouncing. We've got check fraud. We have, he's applied for several loans in other people's names. Great at identity theft. Three stints for identity theft. It's like, it's like indeed back in the early 2000. So I decided I'm going to go to a first appearance hearing and just sit in and listen to the charges that the people have. So I went to, it was in Hillsborough County.

We were in Tampa for something. I went to a first appearance hearing and I sat there and you know like they had the list outside so it's like they're bringing in like 57 people so I'd sit there and I'd listen and of course I'd catch you know this guy's here for fraud

you know such and such he's here for bouncing checks and they call his name Mr. Such and such you know I'd write his name down here for bouncing checks and such other than I'd write that every time they call the name I had to write it down because they only called it at the beginning

and then if there were drugs I'd scratch them out and murder or violent Yeah. The defendant. The defendant. So once, so at the, at the Hillsborough County hearing, I was able to put down six people. And what I learned from doing that is like somebody that had a bond that was high enough that they couldn't make. Because I could make their bond.

Right. So if they had a high enough bond, I'd have to wait like four or five days to see if they bonded out. If they don't bond out, then I want to make the proposition. So, of course, I would write them a letter. Pretty soon I had it typed. and I would just send them a letter in the mail letting them know. Got a form letter. I got a fraud, a proposed fraud, fraud letter.

Form, form letter. You think, like, if they'd have been there long enough, they'd be like, I got that letter last month. He will bond you out. He's a good guy. So it would basically tell them to give me a call, you know, that I wanted to help them out, and I think I can help them make bond just to give me a call.

So when I talked to him on the first, phone, I would basically be like a job interview, be like, hey, man, I'm just curious what kind of, they say you're in there for check fraud. What kind of check fraud? Because I tell them, I want to, I want to make your bond. What kind of check fraud did you do? So I kind of conduct the interview, find out what it is there, they've done. Ask them like, straight up, are you done doing that? So then I would proposition, I say, hey, listen, if I bond you out, would you be interested in making such and such amount of money? I'm like, who the hell is this?

I'm just asking, if I bond you out, would you be interested in making such, such amount of money? Yeah, all right, cool. I'm going to bond you out tomorrow. So then we'd bond him out. But what we would do is we would put a phone, we would go and take our track phone, and put it in his property.

Like, we go in and we might a shirt and like, hey, this is such and such, because you could do that. Yeah, you can go in and you can say, hey Jimmy was arrested a couple days ago he's in there he's getting released can I put he forgot his cell phone he did his cell phone he's gonna call me when he gets out can you put it in his property and the property clerk will be like yeah that's fine and they'll stick it in his property so once they come out and the property it would call me on the phone and I said I'm the guy that bonded you out right if you're serious

about making this money right then this is what I want you to do and the bond is if it's if it's you know if it's a $10,000 bond then it costs you about a grand and you're going to for a guy that's going to make you fucking 50 grand my my goal every my goal for everybody was if you can make one trip you're going to make me 50 grand yeah you're worth it yeah it's worth paying a thousand if i can make 50 even if it's worth paying 10 000 if i can make 50 and and believe me many times i've paid a thousand and gone yeah i've lost a ton of i've lost 50 thousand dollars trying to find the right crew.

Right. Just so, you know, we had the, we had one crew that worked with us long enough to actually start their own business down in West Palm Beach. They're like, hey, man, we got enough. And they like, they retired. Like, hey, man, we appreciate it. You're doing God's work. They told us, we appreciate it, man.

You did a, you're like, now we got the money to start our own business. And so we're done. We quit. Him and his, him and his girlfriend. Yeah. That's too bad. That's the problem. They were keepers. They were keepers. And you couldn't keep them. They worked about seven months, six, seven months. Nice.

Yeah. I mean, you know, one set of employees. So the deal is we were going up and down. You know, we owned a house, doing all that, bought us not only just trips, wherever we wanted to go and help, like, when we had our daughter and everything, We bought a house in Tennessee, a house in Georgia, and we were buying a house in Utah. So we basically, like, we could live wherever we want to live on our vehicle. It's just, we could basically do whatever we want to do. We were spending money.

Utah. So it's like, it's all white people and Zach. And me. And there was a guy in the comment section who said, because you had mentioned Utah before buying a house in Utah. Did you see that one in the comment section? The guy says, he says, oh, so that's the one black guy in Utah, Zach, hilarious. So, yes, like we figured out, we had a ton of money. Like, my wife one day told me, like, she goes, like, actually, I remember when 30, 40 bucks,

somebody go, hey, let me get $30, $40, that's a lot of money. Yeah. Right? And my sister called me up one time and said, hey, I'm going to need some money for a lawyer for my son. And so we were talking about it. She goes, it's going to kind of be expensive. We're like, well, how much?

She said, 10,000. Oh, that's nothing. Yeah. We're thinking like 60, 70. Yeah, that's going to take me a couple days. But 10. 10. How wired?

Do you have a cash app? Hey, so these people, you're getting stuff from people in prison. But did we ever go over the form letter, Colby? Okay. So tell me about the form letter that you sent to the state prison. Well, in the beginning, like... This is one of the ways he was getting information from guys in prison. I would...

This is brilliant, by the way. I would... I wanted... Brilliant. This is brilliant. At one point, I wanted to get people's information in prison. Like, I wanted different states, because I was tearing up Florida and Georgia, because that's where I had been locked up.

Yeah, you got to spread that fraud around. So I said, if I wanted to get people from different states, I probably need to write them. So I came up, I looked up for criminal justice and saw some of the bills that have been passed and what was being written and stuff like that. And so I did a form, I did a letter stating that President, I think it was George Bush, had come up with the Second Chance Act and da-da-da-da-da-da. And this might apply to you. Anyone that's got a life sentence for a violent crime that grew up under the poverty level might qualify for a pardon or. release under the Second Chance Act. Right.

So I need to get some information on your background. So I asked them pertinent questions. I get a one. So it looks like it's coming from what? Like a lawyer? Like a foundation's office. So I got envelopes made. And so I sent those letters out.

I sent like 100 letters. I said, let me do a test. And I pick like eight states and sent out 100 letters spreading them out, like maybe one or two in each prison. Right. And you're thinking you're going to get back how many? I'm thinking I sent out 100 letters. I might get back.

like seven or eight. I'm thinking seven or eight letters will come back and I'll be able to, you know, those give me like, like 50 grand apiece each one. So eight times five is 40. So that'd be $400,000. And that'd be enough for me to print like maybe 400 letters. Yeah.

And get seven or eight, you know what I'm saying? So I sent the letters out. I opened up a P.O. box, or I got someone to open up a P.O. box. Set the letters out. And when I checked the box, it's like about two weeks later, When I remembered to check the box, I go to the box and I get a notice that this box is full and you need to come in the next day in order to get your mail. I'm like, what? So then I go in the next day, it was a UPS store and the guy's like, here you go.

I'm like, what in the hell? It's like I got like 110% back because not only did I send a letter to you and you fill it out, but you probably showed it to someone else who's like, well, hell, I'll just write them my information, ask them to consider me. So I probably got like 110, 150% back because I got all those letters, all those identities. And you said, I'll only remember the story because I remember, so I remember one of the things you had said was that you had, if there's any additional, if there's any additional information that you think should be taken into consideration, you know, please fill out this. And he had a little section where they could fill it out. Guys are filling it out and they're flipping it over. They're writing stuff on other pieces of paper.

Because it's not enough to tell you as much of other stuff you need to take into consideration. And he said his wife would read them because he's not reading them. I got the information. I don't care about what this guy thinks the other extenuating circumstances are. He says wife's reading them. And one time his wife goes, she's like, have you ever read these? And he goes, no, why? She goes, they're really sad.

Like, this guy was his, his mother used to rent him out to like, to like, you know, pedophiles. And, and, and he, Zach goes, stop reading them. Yeah, that's all I go like, stop, stop, stop. She's like, this one's really bad. She's, like, feel bad. It was, and it was a guy named Magic. His first name was Magic. Oh, God.

Horrible. That stuff is, like, you know, it was so funny, like, now they'll be in the comment section guys, people like, laughing about those poor guys shut up you're not fucking sitting in money you don't care about those people anyway that's right that's right anyway so what so okay so so where are we now so all right so basically um um you've got you've got crews i got i got crews out there working but what happened is when my my master crew quit right right when my main crew quit like my funds went downhill because now i don't have someone churning every month

what I need to maintain my houses. It's hard to maintain three houses. Right. So, so, so, so me and, me and, and Madison have to go out, and my money is, is dipping because it's, like, everything I've gotten has, has me at a certain level. Like, I never thought, like,

maybe you ought to sell off some crap, live in one spot, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, live in one mansion. I don't need, maybe hit three mansions is overkill. What? Yeah. Take a step backwards? Yeah.

No, what the heck are you thinking? What am I, a peasant? So what I had, what I had, the concept I came up with is, and this is more of the franchise, what I need is I need someone that's going to do all of the managing and all I do is provide the information. Right. Right. So I can focus on a, on a franchise and just do all the other stuff I want to do.

I just need somebody out there to provide the information. Right. You know, that's going to run around and get the people. tell me where they're going to send them this operate. So I want what I call it general. Right. By this time, have you, do you already own like the pizza franchise or is it a pizza franchise?

Yeah, it was a pizza? No, not at that time. Okay. All right. So we that was my plan. So I'm looking for generals. So it's, and I know a general is a special type of person. I just don't know who it is, but I've gotten a bunch of losers. Right.

Just absolute losers. One of those losers was a guy named Joseph, I used to call him Polar Bear. It was a white dude with blonde hair, and he was a big, big kind of six-two white guy, blonde hair, kind of thick. I called him Polar Bear. So what happened to him was,

I guess he had a girl that he was dealing with that was strung out on drugs. He was one of the ones that took a trip. He wanted to go to Florida. He wanted to do one of the runs. And he goes, I want to go to Florida. I said, okay, no problem. So he goes, I'm going to drive down to Florida.

so he was down in no no he flew to Florida and he wanted to drive back up to Georgia right for a Halloween party I remember this now it's weird he's like I want to come back up to the Georgia for a Halloween party I said dude are you serious he goes yeah yeah instead of me doing all this stuff tomorrow can you just extend the hotel down here get me a hotel up there I'm going to go up there for one night to go to a Halloween party and I'm going to come back down okay man fine like in my mind I'm like $50,000

right I'll put up a little bit of crap for this fucking idiot whatever so I give him the I do exactly what he asked me to do so apparently he was coming back up to Georgia to the score crack I guess he was having problems getting it down where he was

because he didn't know anybody he came up to Georgia and bought crack and got arrested end up going to jail this is what was funny about this guy is he was released and he was on probation. So it's one of those where Georgia does split sentences. So he finished his prison sentence,

got out and got on probation. So he started probation. He was on parole, a little bit of parole left, and then probation. So by him, insisting, because I tried for 30 minutes to talk him out of it, like, dude, like, we'll find you a Halloween.

We'll get on the internet. It's not that, Bob, yeah, we'll find you a Halloween party. Right. Or next Halloween, wherever you want to be. I promise. Nah, dude, let me just drive up there.

You know, fine. Let me please drive to my arrest. So he got arrested for drugs. Him going to jail is what triggered my, it's where, like, if I look back on my life, it's where the dominoes just started falling. Like everything fell, just it lined up and fell appropriately.

And I lined up with it, you know, because I knew at that time the FBI had been looking for us. Well, no, I didn't. I knew that detectives in Florida were looking for us. You know what I'm saying? I just knew that we were hot and I wanted to kind of stay put. That's why we wanted to go out west. I wanted to just kind of stay put for a while and let everything blow over. But the dominoes started falling.

So his arrest, what happened was he had a female. Her name was Mary. Mary, that's what I wanted to describe. So it's important that I described to you my operation, the way I worked. So I worked in an office out of my house. I had an assistant, her name was Jojo. Right. Jojo lived in the projects.

I used to pay her like $2,500 a month. What Jojo did was she booked the hotels and the flights. She took care of all of the, because my wife had just had our daughter. so she took care of all of the intricacy things that needed to go on like the logistics and things the logistics right she had a runner it was a stupid friend of hers by the name of um oh man I knew I was gonna forget this guy's name anyway she had a junior she had a runner by the name of junior he was super slow and what the reason I remember him is because she's always telling me junior so special So she had a runner.

She was my assistant, and it was her husband that I met in jail. His name was De Carlos. So that was her baby daddy, De Carlos. She had junior, and it was Jojo. So these were my side crew. This is the people to help me out. So what happened is I stopped taking calls. Like I'm not no longer going to deal with the stupidity and the lunacy.

they called Jojo and Jojo weeds it out because she knows what all needs to be done. So that freed up a lot of my times. I wasn't talking to stupidity. So one day, Jojo calls me up and Jojo says, hey, I got this girl calling. I think you ought to talk to her.

I said, well, what does she want? She goes, she wants a job. I'm like, okay, well, what makes you think I need to talk to her? She goes, listen, you got to hear what, she's a trip, you got to hear her. So she puts her through on the phone, just like a phone system it's unbelievable

it's unbelievable so she gets her name is Mary she goes hi my name is Mary and you need me I said what she goes she goes listen polar bear she called him Joe told me all what you had going on and she goes I promise you

you need me I would be very valuable to you and that is my intent I'm trying to make a lot of money so that I can move somewhere else and on your team I think we could both make a bunch of money I said, okay.

She goes, you need to check out my resume. I'm like, check out your resume. She goes, yeah, look me up at the Georgia Department of Corrections and call me back. Here's my number. Click, and then she hung up on me. So I'm like, this, bitch. So I type her in and I see fraud, check fraud, you know,

scam scheme for larceny schemes. I'm like, like a boner, like, ooh, you know, whoa. So I call her back. She's like, yes, yes, I can do all that. I got that. We can, you know, I'm looking for this chick. Yes. I'm like, this is my general.

Right. So I'm talking to her and she's telling me, listen, because we met with her, she's telling me, listen, I could get a crew of women like that. How many you need? Six, ten, 15. I'm like, where do you get them? She goes, come on, man. She goes, I've been out here doing this.

I know boosters. I got girls on standby ready to go. What do you need us to do? So I'm like, awesome. Yeah. This will be awesome. So I'm telling her, okay, so I make the same proposition. We're going to get you a rental car.

We're going to get you somewhere to stay. You know what I'm saying? We're going to absolutely hook you up. We're going to do this. So what we do is we go on a test run, to kind of show her everything that's going on. So we meet her in Florida. We go down to Florida where my wife and I

demonstrate where we go in with her to demonstrate exactly what we're doing. Right. You know what I'm saying? So my wife goes in as a female and opens up an account. I go in as a male open up an account and she's watching and I got this.

This is easy. This is absolutely easy. I got this. I got this. She's telling me, man, I can have four girls doing this next week. awesome right awesome so we're flying back because I think we're staying in Georgia we're flying back to Georgia she's gonna drive back so we tell her okay look this went

great here's about two thousand dollars right when you get back to Georgia what we want you to do is we want you to get a place we're gonna help you furnish it you know in our ways of furnishing things yeah and get set up and we're going to put it to work. If you can get us two girls, I've got the folder set up, and then next week we'll start working. The deal was we were going to split everything.

So if the girls go on a run, we make $72, $80,000, then she gets $40,000, I get $40, which is of the profit. So if we have to, whatever we pay the girls, whatever's left is profit, her and Mary and I split. So that was going to be the deal.

I'm like, cool, let's go. So my wife and I, we're excited. we get on an airplane and we get ready to fly back. So Mary has her money. She's in her new car. She has what she needs. She's to come back to Georgia where she's to set up and get her two girls to take her first trip. My wife and I fly back to Georgia where I'm going to get all the paperwork together ready for Mary to go.

Right? I wanted to give Mary a little time. It was supposed to be like three, three days, three, four days, and she's supposed to call and let us know. So on about the fourth day, about third day, you know, probably the day before she was supposed to call, I get a call from Jojo. Hello? She goes, hey, Mary's in jail. Like, what? Like, Mary, Mary, the Mary we just, yeah, yeah, the Mary that you went down to Florida with, the Mary, yeah, she's in jail.

She's in jail. What is she in jail for? Like, what happened? Like, so she goes, when she calls me back, I'll let you know, but she called me from jail, letting me know she's in jail. So Mary calls it back. Jojo calls me back and it's like, hello? I'm like, Mary, hello, what happened?

She's like, oh, I don't know. It's crazy. I got in the car with this guy. He had some crack on him. Ba-ba-ba-ba. We got pulled on. We got arrested. He wouldn't even claim the crack.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm thinking to myself, fuck. Oh, my God. She's a-thought this chick had it together. And she's a crackhead. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm giving her like $5,000, $6,000.

I didn't even ask her about the rental car. I didn't even ask. You know, it's just like, oh. So I'm like, okay, what's going on? She goes, just got to get me out of here. I'm going to work. I promise you just take whatever you take. I'm going to work just get me to work so I can make this money and get me out of here.

So I said, okay, well, how much is your bond? My bond's $22,500. For crack? Yeah, well, it's $250, you know, to get her out. It's 10%. Oh, you said, did you say $20,000? 22,000? No, I said $2,500.

Oh, I mean, I thought it was $22,000. No, she goes, my bond $2,500, blah, blah, blah. So I hang up with her. I said, okay, we'll bond you out. So I hang up with her and I'm talking to the Jojo now. Like you said before, I had access to all our accounts through, like, my phone. Like, this is the era, the smartphone, the Blackberry. So I could transfer money to Jojo.

The fact that you said of the Blackberry is this. This is a smartphone. Guys, I'll be laughing right now. This is 2007. Fucking old school fucking motherfucker. This is 2007, you know? So I called Joe, I talked Joe to go like, well, I go bond her out, Joe, Joe. She goes, send Jr. down there to pay her bond.

She goes, want me to get a bondsman? I said, no, no, I'm going to send you to $2,700. Give back the junior, tell him to go cash bond her out for me. She's like, okay, I got you. So they arrange, you know, we make arrangements for that. I kind of go to bed or I do what I do. I think I tell my wife, you know, so the next morning, about 10 o'clock, Jojo calls me, hello?

She goes, Mary's still in jail. I'm like, what, you didn't bond her out? She goes, yeah, we bonded her out, but she's still in jail. I'm like, well, what's going on? She goes, apparently she's gotten two charges that she didn't even know about. So she gets on the phone, she goes, yeah, I had these forgery charges going on, you know, so I'm like, you had forgery. So she had a check charge show up and her bond was $5,000.

So I'm like, what? She had an uttering of forge instrument and a forgery charge for this one check she wrote. So it's an additional, it's an additional $5,000. So when we posted her $2,500 bond, she's in this county called Fayette County, which is Fayetteville, Georgia. So when we posted her bond, they just dropped those charges and she couldn't get out of jail. So I'm like, oh, come on, just get me out. I'm going to work.

I promise you, I'm going to get to work immediately about it. I'm like, oh, pay the bond. You want me to use a bond? No, don't use a bondsman. I'm going to send you over $5,200. Not now. Now it's, uh-uh. No, no, don't use the bondsman.

I don't want any signatures. Just put the money on her books. And cash bond are out of there. Mm. Mm. All right. No problem. We got it.

All right. That night or the next morning. Hello? Yeah. She's still in jail. Okay. You're running game on me. She's like, now her bond is $7,500.

What? I'm going to miss Mary. Okay. No. I don't know. Is this detective? so she gets on the phone, Mary. I don't know if this detective, he hates my guts.

As soon as you pay the bond, he finds some other check and he put it on me. I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, pay the bond. No bondsman. Oh, my God. Cash. I'm going to send the cash over.

I'm going to have to make a transfer. Go pick some up, send Junior my way. See, all this is going on, Junior's running around, and he gets the money, and he takes it and he puts it on her books. and now that she has the enough money on her books, they pay her bond, and she's to get out. Needless to say, after all that transpired, Mary's still in jail. Her bond is $10,000. Yeah, we're done.

We're done. We're done. I thought that. So I'm like, okay, her bond is $10,000. What is going on? Mary tells me that's all of it I promise

that should be I don't mean it couldn't have been that many checks that's all of it just get me out of here I'm gonna pay you back every dime

I'm gonna work the first job for free da da da da da just so you get your money back you're the most important thing

da da da yeah I'm like okay listen go ahead pay the bond you gotta send me you're gonna send me

the cash no use a bondsman you know how disappointed I am in you right now right I don't really

fully remember remember this story like you don't remember not this bad like I mean like I can for that much money I can get another Mary I can you can buy a Mary yes see remember I tell you the dominoes when I look back the dominoes fell perfectly so there's a Mary I'm thinking okay I get one or two trips out of her I'm going to get this money back right so paid a bond bondsman so junior signs for her

goes to a bondsman finds a bondsman signs her bond to get her out Mary's still in jail her bonds 15,000 I'm like all right that's she's calling and screaming so I tell Mary I say you know what

okay okay we're done I don't say we're done I say okay this is what we're going to do Mary I said there's this hot lawyer that helped me and my wife. His name is Adrian. He's a fantastic lawyer. I'm going to hire him to come down there and find out what's going on.

Because she's telling me, listen, I've got your future. Look, I've got all these girls ready to go. I know. I know. She's... Keep working you. Worked me. Worked me.

So I pay the lawyer. The lawyer, I call up. I go, she needs a bond. This is what's going on. They're stacking charges on top. of her da da da da da he goes listen and the lawyer adrian he was so cocky you know he was this light skin probably half black half white guy very handsome had an awesome law firm downtown but he was part of a firm like i don't have time to listen you know what i'm saying you get a few words in i'll decipher

everything else and blame you if i miss something you got that nice so of course you do so he's like listen i'll find out what's going on i got this i'll go down there in the morning and check it out my fee for getting a bond is ten thousand dollars for handling in the whole case it's another ten so get me ten bands and i'll go down there and i'll get a bond i got you i guarantee i get her a bond you're at like 50 grand now aren't you close to 50 so you know so i of him 10, he goes down to get her a bond. So he goes down to see Mary, right? And when he comes out, like all of this is going on, by the way, I'm living in my life. We're looking for the franchise. It's meeting my wife and my daughter. We're, you know, we're living a normal life

while this is. Yeah. These are periodic, just phone calls. Yes. In the midst. Three minute phone call with transferring some money and just moving on. Yes. It's like, okay, that's, that was in the decision I made. So go ahead. So I get a phone call. and age is the lawyer and he doesn't sound cocky anymore so I answered the phone yeah Adrian what's going on

he goes okay listen I fucked up and you fucked up excuse me I've been here the whole time one more time he said I fucked up

and you fucked up and you fucked up up okay so how did I fuck up he said you fucked up because you did not tell me that this girl did not know your real name I didn't tell you she didn't know my real name no you didn't so how did but she does now how did you fuck up he said I fucked up because I told her he said i'm telling you this because i wasn't in there two seconds and she asked me who paid you and i said your real name your first and last name and she said oh that's his real name and he said that hit my gut like a rock i'm like oh god

But he goes, I do have some good news. I got her a bond. No. He said, I do have some good news. The feds are going to bond her out now. With that name, she went and talked to the feds, and they gave her a bond. You're giving the story away, man. I haven't got to the end of the story.

You're giving it away. I have good news. I have a bond hearing set for her next Thursday. Okay. He goes, I'm going to guarantee. get her a bond. Did the heat shoot up through you when he had told... I'm sweating now thinking about it, yes.

Like, I told her your real name. It's so bad. Yeah, you did fuck up. You really should have been like, listen, she don't... First of all, why does he know your real name? Oh, because he had he helped me and represented me in court. Right, right, right. In fact, that's the only name he knew me by.

Okay. So my mess up was hiring somebody that knew me. Yeah. Like, I should have said, you pick a lawyer and I pay him. Right. And, and, Jr., he could have gave him junior's name. You know, like, uh, junior. And none of these other people know your name. Like, like, uh, Mary, not Mary, but, uh, Jojo.

Joe doesn't, nobody knows your real name, right? He does because he represented me in court. Right. But, but now the, so does Mary. Right. Yeah, I understand. All right. So, so what happened?

So, so he sets her a bond hearing. Jojo and I talk to Mary. We try to calm her down a little bit, you know, we, you know, it's going to be all right. Next week you're going to get a bond. We're going to go ahead and finally put all this to rest. You know, he's going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. she's like oh just get me out of here and she's committing to like okay how much

how much are you into me now I'm going to do this to make it all up to you I promise you we're going to get this back we're going to make this money you know I'm like okay all right cool yeah I'm praying for the best all right so the Thursday comes and the bond hearing shows up I want to go but I'm like no I'm not going to the bond hearing

so um he comes although now it's not periodical thoughts that this is occurring. This is kind of my main focus. Yeah, yeah. Now you can't stop thinking about it. Yeah, that's right. So he goes to the bond here and he comes out and he calls up and he goes, all righty, I got good news and I got bad news.

I'm like, come on, man. You don't just, you know, which one do you want first? Give me the good news. Give me the good news first. I'll about that. he goes okay so what I found out is apparently she was going around

to Walmart in the Atlanta Metro area and she was writing checks and getting gift cards so somehow she got some kind of book a couple books of checks and she's writing them out and getting like four or $500 gift cards with them each check that she wrote is two charges it's uttering a forged instrument

and forgery so the highest bond for those checks It's $2,500 each, right? I got the judge to tell the detective who, by the way, Adrian said pissed him off before he went in because he said something slick. And he said the detective asked who hired him. But he said that I got the judge to tell the detective all of the charges you have, you bring them by tomorrow night at 6 p.m.

Friday night is 6 p.m. Right? Any charges after that, Mary gets. it's OR bond for, right? So all those charges are going to be brought before then. He can't bring any more. Otherwise, she's automatically ORR. So you'll be able to bond her out tomorrow evening.

Release on our own recognizance, right? Yes. I'm like, oh, thank goodness. Ooh. Wait a minute. Yeah. There was bad news, wasn't it? Yeah.

Well, what's the bad news? The bad news is she wrote 72 checks. are you shitting me so Friday evening at 6 Mary Bond listed at $6885,000 she's never getting out

she'd never get now I'm not getting her out you did not get her out are you serious you didn't get her out that's 10% of that is like $650,000 over $600,000

I mean I'm sorry over $60,000 And they wanted property. So they wanted me to put up my house. So just so you know, Matt, you're right. I didn't get her out, but I did price the bond. And this is a moment. So I call, I tell Jojo, I said, get me, like, what would I need to get her out?

So I would need the 60. Really, it was going to be like 80,000 because they wanted a security deposit. And I'd have to give up a deed to my house. And the bondsman said, you do under. understand that if she doesn't show up for court, I will own your house. You will not get it back. That's one court hearing. So you need to give me $60,000.

So I'm on the phone. I have him on speakers. I'm sitting at my desk. And he's like, I'm going to need like $80,000, your signature and the deed to one of your homes with you signing that you, if she misses one hearing, that I will be the owner of your house. That's all I need. Well, what's the answer?

So I'm like, um, yeah, can I call you back and let you know? Let me think it over. He says, all right, yeah, just let me know. I'm like, all right, no problem. And I hang up the phone and I sit back and I hear something move and I look and it's my wife stayed in there with my baby, both looking at me. And she said, if you bond her out, then I know you're fucking her. I walk out of the room.

How many? Like, no, I promise you, if I do wander out, I will be fucking her. From here on. Oh, you ain't shit you can do about it. Man. So, Matt, given those circumstances, would you? you have you know what's funny is we were talking about this the other day earlier and the other day was like every time you tell someone that story like well in prison in prison I just

tell that story in prison and guys would say oh I'd have bought it out really yeah and killed her like then it the whole thing falls apart it's over like there is no case she can't testify against me she can't anything I get all my money back she's dead like you're right right like but that's what guys in prison will say Kill her. Like when I was with Becky and she had all the money and she was driving me crazy

you know how many guys were like so she got like $600,000 in cash? Yeah. Oh, I just killed her. And I'm like, okay, well as a fraudster that isn't an option I'm not going to kill someone. So it bothers me that that is like

so many guys in prison. Their first reaction is, is oh, okay. So you need kill her? No, I didn't kill her. What do you mean? Unfortunately, I had to bond her out and off her. right like that would have been the answer like you you had to bond her out you already know she knows

she knows your name she's got to cooperate especially if you don't bond her out because she's already she's already a drug addict we now know she's a crack head who hasn't had crack in at least a week she's jonesing she hates you if you don't bond her out because in her mind everything she's because you know drug addicts like if they're like i promise i'll do that at that moment they 100% believe it and if you say i don't believe you then they hate your guts because they know they're telling the truth, either the truth is, you've made thousands of promises like that and never owed up to any of them. Yeah, but that was different. They can always justify why they've never done an upstanding. The background. Yes. Yeah. So in their mind, it's like, you know what?

Fuck him. I'm going to go. Give me the FBI on the phone. This is the guy's name. This is boom. Matter of fact, that's exactly what she did. What? The training. That's crazy. I know. The training that my wife and I did are the charges that we have in Florida. You mean she didn't bring them back to the bank and get the video camera footage where you walked in. It was clearly you.

Wow. So. Well, after that, I mean, generally speaking, the lawyer Adrian, because I paid him to 20 to represent her, he actually got her a deal for like three years in prison for all of those checks.

And he says, I know the, the parole, I know someone on the parole board. He goes, so I told her she wouldn't even do eight months. Did she do any time? Yeah, she did. He actually, he told my sister, Adrian told my sister that she did like two years and he made sure of that. Oh, okay. Nice. Because he was, he was upset because there was a point in time, but Matt, all this got crazy.

And so when she cooperated, there was a point when I called Adrian, and Adrian said to me, he says, like, I called him up, I said, Adrian, let me ask, he said, don't ask me nothing. And let me tell you this. He goes, whenever you hire me to represent a client, I have to represent that client to the best of my ability, no matter what they decide to do. Right. So I am sworn by, this is a spiel he gave me that was probably written and presented to him. Like, do anything other than represent this woman? Right. You know, it got very serious.

But as he's reading it, you know, just by you telling me this, I know she's cooperating right now. Yes. Right. Okay. Got it. I totally understand. She's cooperating.

Great. I need to get out of here. I need to start shutting out of operation. Yeah. So that's where we're in Utah. So I'm like, okay, we don't go back. You got to get out of Utah. You sick out like a sore thumb in Utah.

He's up that, he's up that mountain. Okay, where the FBI were here. We're looking for an African American. He's over there. Saw him last week. I didn't even tell you. I can make a call. We know where he's at all the time.

He just went through checkers. Yes, yes. That's poor Utah. It's slamming. But yes, that's basically, so we're over on the West Coast just to make something funnier. Yeah, this is. well the the the dynamics of what happened was the way we were arrested is when I don't know this is this is straight I don't have all the answers for this so this is we they kick in Jojo's door yes so we're going we decide we're staying in Utah and we're not coming back this way at all they our families my my mom and Madison's mom arranged for winter to be baptized and Christianed right here is

His daughter's name is, yeah, Winter, your daughter, to be Christian. Right, so we're going to, Kristen, so we're going to bring her back to Florida. So we get an airline ticket. This is something, you know, we planned this even before Mary. As a matter of fact, when I think about it, this is before all of the shit went down. Because the warning my wife gave me was everybody knows we're going back to Florida. So the day that we're supposed to go back to Florida, right? And by the way, Utah is two hours behind us.

We're on the East Coast. They're on the mountain time. So at 4, 3 o'clock in the morning, 4 o'clock in the morning, Jr. calls me and says, hey, they kicked in Jojo's door and took her to jail. I'm like, what? He said, yes. And it wasn't the FBI, right? And Jojo lives in Atlanta, and it wasn't the Fulton County police.

The police from Fayette County drove over county. lines and kicked in Jojo's door, like one of the most illegal acts ever by the police. Right. Like, we're going to go into another county without any Fulton County sheriff and kick in this woman's door and take her out of the county into our jail. Right. Like, they broke the law. I know you want me to act shocked. This is not uncommon, you know, I know guys that were kidnapped.

in their own home countries where the FBI came in, yes, kidnaps the guy in his own country for something that's not illegal in his country. And he's like, oh, he's wanted to hear. Yeah, but you didn't extradite him? You didn't, we're not going to go through all that. They might not have done it. Well, so what you did was illegal.

It's not illegal once we get them back to the United States. I know. It's only illegal if they catch us there. And then the United States was going to make them give us back. So they're really just not, and they're totally breaking the law. The whole thing. And then the guy goes. goes in front of the judge and says, your honor, they kidnapped me in my own country and brought

me here. And the judges are always like, yeah, that's fine. You're already here, though. Like, that's up to them to prosecute them. I have no jurisdiction there. And you're here. So we're going to go forward. Wow. Amazing. So they arrested Jojo. They kick in her door and arrested Jojo. Apparently what happened is the night before we were to leave, Mary called Jojo and gave Jojo a social security number. So when she gave Jojo that number over the phone Give them jurisdiction to go Right so they come in and kick of course I mean if if I were to give you a social security number on the phone

The police should be barging through my door to arrest me Right three counties over Yeah You're on the rest from writing down a number to somebody gave you Let's go god damn it What's even funny is that like back then that kind of was how it was Like now you can give me your social security number I can have your and that's not a charge

But it used to be a charge You're in possession of someone else is like, I haven't done anything with it. It doesn't matter. Let's go. Aggravated identity theft. What? Two years?

Like, but now they're like, no, he has to actually use it. Oh, you mean he has to actually commit a crime with it? Yes. Now it's a crime. But holding it isn't a crime. So. But it was. How many guys did two years for that?

A ton. A ton. And apparently Jojo. Well, Joe didn't get any time. They actually dropped the charges. So they, really what they wanted is because of my, um, Whenever I travel, I had multiple identities. And so for traveling, my wife and I had an identity, my wife and I had an identity strictly for traveling.

So I would never travel under my name. I would just travel under a name. Right. So that I would take the ID card and like, anyway, I mean, the way I was, I would take my ID and overnight it to the hotel I was staying in. Right. And I would take the ID card and go check in the hotel, get my ID in the mail, and then I'd walk around as me. the rest of the time.

Overnight, my ID, back home and get back on a plane as my travel person. So nobody knew the name we were traveling under. So we were going to be able to land and they'd not even identify us. The only person that knew

what name we traveled under was Jojo. So they gave Jojo a social security number kicked in her door and took her to jail. When they took, Joe Joe... She held out because she's a gangster. No?

Of course. She held out at least a couple of minutes. It was all of until they brought her soda. We got your soda. Okay, here's his name. their names so yeah so they take jojo to jail junior calls me and says jojo's in jail right so i'm like for what like jojo legitimately never did anything except answer the phone and make travel arrangements i mean of course in a conspiracy but anyway so he tells me jojo's in jail

my wife and I are freaking out so my wife tells me let's not go to Tampa and I stupidly tell my wife honey Jojo's in Georgia we're going to Florida the Georgia police have no

jurisdiction in Florida see I don't know it's the FBI if I don't know it's the FBI I probably would have thought I think they got jurisdiction everywhere we're not going nowhere except under these bushes over here so

I still get on the airplane to fly out my wife tells me as we're as we're at the airport in line she says i just want to say this for the record if anything happens i want it known that i was absolutely against this trip from the beginning because she's begging me let's not go let's just go and get in the hotel room for like a month and nobody knows where we're at we'll eat at a restaurant or whatever nobody knows where we're at we'll just hide out but that's not my happened. That's not what happened. So I had a direct flight from Salt Lake City right into Tampa.

So we get on our airplane that same day that Jojo was arrested, flew into Tampa, and lo and behold, as I step off the airplane, they call my name. Mr. Allen, I'm like, uh, uh, uh, no, my name is Billy Bob. Right. Billy Bob. Yeah, I'm Billy Bob. You have some identification? I'm like, I, I, absolutely do. There you go. So the cop looks at it, looks at me, we'll deal with this later.

Let's go. Another charge. Who was it? Was it a cop or was it? It was the lavender guy. It was the purple man. That was our introduction to the purple man. When he grabbed me, he took my wife and wife and daughter in one direction

and pulled me in another direction. You know, I'm a smart ass, so that's when I kind of pissed him off. That's what led up to my arrest. That's what led up to my 16,998-month sentence in federal prison, all because of those two accounts that we opened with Mary. That and all of the other arrests. Like you always say, well, and my charge, it was only a little bit of money.

Yes, but you have all of the other charges. I don't like to bring that up. Why are you talking about the past? I just love the guys. Why you got to be bringing up the? pass. Yeah, so, yes. Your charge without all of the other charges would have been what?

Probably like probation or something. But because of all of your history of arrests. Well, yes. I was a level. At least two years for aggravated identity theft. Right. Because you got aggravated, right? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. My loss amount was very low because of. Right. Well, because they hadn't put everything together. They don't have, they didn't have everything. They had just what they. could directly link you to with the knuckleheads they grabbed.

Right. I mean, God only, look, if they had gotten everything, you know, we'd be talking on the phone right now. Right. Are you putting this on? Am I live? Am I alive? You're calling from the bureau.

You're speaking with an inmate in the Bureau of Prison, Federal Review? Yeah. You'd have been like, Zach is still in jail. Yeah. So that's my story, Matt. Nice. Good times. Good times.

I don't, like, some of that I don't think of us good times, but now, that's my story. It's funny now. You don't see, you, it's funny, you don't laugh about it nearly as much. Even looking back, I can tell you're like, oh, I hate it. It's gut-wrenching. It's gut-re-that part of it is gut, because of the, the onslaught of bad decisions. Yeah, yeah. And when you, so, and then when you went to prison, so you go to prison and you meet me,

and I remember then you did your 2255 and got back, which honestly, even getting to be brought back in front of the judge for a 2255 is that's almost unheard of right so you actually got yourself back but the judge just hated you oh he hates my gut he hated my guts what was what was the judge judge widomore he hated my guts so so funny needless to say i did the whole bid thought for sure at some point something would cut me at least a little bit the only thing did was ardap oh ardap you yeah oh you did go all the way through ardap i went all the way through bar-dap and got the year off bro i have a question for you like how like you you like i did like the pin oh well it was probably not bad at the pen like it was bad i mean no i mean are guys telling on

each other left yeah are they yes at the pin what are you talking about stabbing big hirk big herc says that nobody tells on each on on anybody in the pin oh we got to do that video so um so you got the year i went to a bloody boughamomont yeah that's bad that's a bad that's a bad that's you know uh my my cousin went there too you know he was like he went to the medium oh he went to medium he was like the medium medium was supposed to be worse than the right he was there is horrible it's horrible i was like bro i said how bad i said bro are you okay i mean how bad is it there because i we had i was sending letters between my mom and he said listen it's bad but don't worry there's some guys from my trailer park here i'm going to be okay

I like the yes all right so that's it right you want to wrap it up all right all right hey so if you like

the podcast do me a favor hit the like button share the video turn on the the notification hit the bell

to be notified and leave a comment and definitely definitely I'll say it twice definitely share the video and I appreciate it all right

Zach hey Zach all right see you See ya.