Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Credit Card Scammer Beats The Banks 36m Stolen

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Flame, a former scammer, reveals how he exploited the credit system, leading to one of the most audacious fraud runs against major banks.⁣ ⁣ Flame's links⁣ Meetflame.com⁣ http://Flamescard.com⁣ Personal Credit Book- https://tinyurl.com/TSOCBook⁣ Business Credit Book - https://tinyurl.com/TSOCBiz ⁣ Credit Card Book - https://tinyurl.com/TSOCCreditCardBook⁣ Pull Your Credit Report- https://tinyurl.com/Pullmycredit⁣ Facebook - https://tinyurl.com/FlameNFacebook⁣ Instagram - https://tinyurl.com/FlameNInstagram⁣ Tiktok - https://tinyurl.com/FlameNTwitter⁣ LinkedIn - https://tinyurl.com/FlameNLinkedin⁣ YouTube - https://tinyurl.com/FlameNYoutube⁣ Flame's calendar - https://tinyurl.com/flamecalender⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://www.insidetruecrimepodcast.com/apply-to-be-a-guest⁣ ⁣ Get 10% sitewide for a limited time. Just visit https://GhostBed.com/cox and use code COX at checkout. ⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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where they would hit you. Like, you can't hit people now. And the statute of limitations is up on my family from getting in trouble from hitting me. But they used to hit me, right? They had a problem with hitting me, right? They would go to like a tree and then just grab whatever they seen on the tree,

whether it was a limb or something. The switch, right? And they would hit me. But it got to a point that where that I was so bad that even with other family, members and stuff like that, they would do something like my little cousins and all them. Everybody else would do something. But no matter what, if I was in the vicinity of it, it was me that influenced them.

It was me that did it. So that's pretty much how that pretty much came about with that. So what it just kind of escalated to, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission kind of thing? Like you just start, you know what's crazy? That's it. 100%. That's the way that I like to follow it.

that whole concept of, man, if I ask, I always say this concept is weird. And I know a lot of people can't follow this. But I knew if I asked somebody something, it was always a 50-50 chance. Right. Right. It's either you could say yes or you could say no, right? And I don't like the word no. So if I just did it, that means it was already done.

And I never had to ask. Right. But if you didn't like what I did, I always had the opportunity to say to you, well, I won't do it next time. Right. Right. But this time, it was already done. You know what I mean?

I mean, like in high school and stuff, like good grades. Did you? I'm going to school. I'm not really going to class. I don't like, I'm not like in class, man. I'm in the school. I'm in the school. But I'm doing all this stuff that's football related, right?

I'm going to the office. I'm going upstairs watching film. Even if I'm in class, I don't want to stay in class. So. Are they just passing you? because they're giving me low GPAs, right? So that's what happened for me with school is because I left that school with a,

with like a low GPA, like a 2.0, 2.2. Right. But you've got to have a 2.5 in order to play college ball. But my college offers ended up with me going to Mississippi State, we're going to Mississippi State down to Starkville. But the thing about it was I wasn't eligible because of my grades As I'm in school, going to school with these guys, ran into one thing that led me to another, which was the cell phone.

They used to have these things called, what's it called, Bell South and Singular phones, sprint phones, and back then when you had long distance charges. So your long distance charges on your cell phone, you could run your bill sky high, except for you can use your phone free after a certain time at night. Now, they don't even have any of that. No, old school.

We were talking about, talked somebody the other day about the phone cards. Yeah. Phone cards? I still don't even know what that is. Yeah. So now you're talking about where you got free nights and weekends that are starting at 9 o'clock.

And then it moved from being free nights and weekends to 7. But as you know, I'm in school. And these folks, they're running up school bills on their cell phone, like, whether they're calling home. And they're running up bills. Bills might be $150, $200 for a bill. Well, I've seen this one thing where you can actually have, like, one of my, I call it, Matt, that's the best word for it, man. It's almost like a stepping stone to this white collar world, right? Like, your first introductory to it, even if you don't even know that you're doing it.

Right. And because I don't think I was calling the white collar then. I don't even know if it was, I don't even know what the hell was calling it. It was just doing a crime. Right. For that matter, right? And that was, had the authority to actually pay a cell phone bill without paying it with a check. And as you know, a check and a money order is identical pertaining to the way it's listed on the check and a money order.

Because you got the money order number, the check number. The route number is the same digits on the money order as it is as a check. And you got the account number. Okay. So you can take that money order where I could get a money order, say, for a $5 money order. And that $5 money order back then would allow you to pay a $500 phone bill, right? It just went through, right? And so you could be able to take that.

And so they didn't know that. and that allowed me to take people and get half off. So they would pay me, say, if the cell phone bill was 500 bucks, I would charge them 250, right? They're not knowing that I know how to do this money order thing. And the only reason I know how to do this money order thing because somebody charged me. And when they charge me for it,

I play that little game, as you mostly see, where somebody can look this way right here or do something over here, but still pay attention real close over here about what's going on. So when they took my money to actually do it, I heard them talking about, hey, do this, do that, so they can get my phone bill paid.

And when I heard that, I didn't get everything. I just got some of it. And then I was able to take that and I was able to pay my bill on that bill. I still don't understand the $5 for the $500. That's the golden goose of this whole thing. A money order that was $5, right?

when you punch, because you used to call in, used to call in to Sprint to pay a bill, they would ask you what was, what's the account number and the routing number of the check? When they give it a route number of the check, instead of you give them an actual check, you give them an actual money order. The money order, when you give it to them,

you're going to give them a route number and account number on the money order. Somehow another, the digits or the decimal or how have it worked inside the telephone system, it automatically took that $5 dollar money, order when you typed it in, when you told them over the phone that it was $500 instead of $5, it went through for it. They're probably creating a check.

I used to pay, so I used to pay my lease, I had a lease outy, and I would call, you know, they, you can call them or they can call you, like, if you're going to be, if you're late on your shit, they'll call you be like, hey, you're supposed to be two days ago. You haven't got it yet, and I always forget. And they'd take, we can take a check over the phone and you just give them the information on the phone. They go, okay, it's for this much and you authorize it. Yeah. And it'd go through. The only reason I know they create a check is because at the end of the month, I'd get that check where they'd make a fake check and it'd come in my, this is back when they mailed you stuff. I'd have all my canceled checks and I'd have this one big ass check for my lease payment where they created their check with put all the right stuff.

Gotcha. So for you, they're probably doing that. But instead of five bucks, they're putting $500 and it's going through for $500 because it's connected. to this probably a massive account for money orders. You know what I'm saying? They're definitely 500 bucks is in that account. Yeah. So maybe that's what's happening. And that was going on. You're not getting the check.

Not at all. And that was going on for quite some time. That was going on for about a good four months. You had a good four month run on it, right? Okay. Of being able to just do that. Until they figure it out. Until they, until their internal system, however they did.

And then at that point, that kind of got me to a, that got me to a, a point of, okay, they caught on to it or whatever, but people still trying to pay me because, you know, at this point, if you know, if you do anything for four months, the word is, hey, if you need your, you need your cell phone bill paid, go to flame. You need this paid, go to flame, right? And that was happening, but it was happening in such a way that where I'm getting strangers knocking on my door saying, hey, I need you to pay a bill for me, man. Because, you know, back then, they would turn off your phone.

You know what I mean? They wouldn't know. you couldn't ride out no three months without paying a bill. They were shutting that phone off on that, right? Especially with them loan distance charges like that. Right. You know what I mean? And so that's how all that stuff happened from that point.

That was kind of like my first intro into the white collar world. So what happens from there? Now, you just, you kind of put that aside. I kind of put that aside because not like I put it aside, as you, as we know, is that when you put something aside, something had to happen, right? And that's something that happened was the mere fact of that it wouldn't work no more, right? And I didn't want to get jammed up

because as I was doing it, I was adding more people to what I was doing. And it was kind of backfiring where I owed a couple people some money. You know what I mean? Just, hey, I might owe somebody out. I might owe somebody some money now for it, right? It was 100 bucks or 200 bucks back then or something.

Because, as you know, all good things come to an end that came to an end too. But then after that was, after that was pretty much with still kind of stealing the school thing finishing up school um end up finishing school once i kind of finished up school um now i'm kind of stuck in this kind of period right it's kind of like it's kind of like this this area of um where you're finished school but you got to go into the real world of work and but the real world of work ain't really paying no money out there um talking to a friend, I'm talking to this girl, and she tells me she's working at a debt collection place,

right? And I'm like, okay, cool. I mean, they're hiring? She said, yeah, they're hiring. They're always hiring. Yeah, hiring a debt collection. So I decided to get a job. I decided to get a job over there.

But this debt collector is an unusual debt collector. This debt collector is collecting on American Express, right? It's collecting on American Express accounts. So they're the third party that is getting their debt from American Express. But when I look at something, as you know, at every level of life is that the people that make the least always got the most information, right? And what I mean by that is, is that if you notice that if you go anywhere, that debt collector has a person name, address, phone number, date of birth. But within this, they got, they got what you call bad debt. Why? Because they over here with a debt collector. They just defaulted. But there's a thing in this. And that thing is,

which I can see a little bit deeper is that they got a $20,000 credit card in which I'm collecting on, right? They got $80,000 credit card, which they're collecting on. And all accounts with debt collectors does not necessarily mean that that account is it's a they got them in stages

and debt collectors they call them like one two and three one mean that that account you could have just been laid on that account for 30 days 31 days and they sent it to a debt collector

to collect on it so that's fresh that's hot and that's if soon as we get a hold of you Matt you're saying, damn it, I forgot about the bill. Let me pay the bill. I just, I had something to come up. Then you got what you call a second series. A second series mean that this account has been around for probably about 90 days, right?

And if you kind of get a hold to them, they may pay the debt. It depends on what kind of slump that they were in at that time, right? Then you got the third one, right? The third one, which is somebody, this debt might be damn near a year old. You know what I mean? Two years old. It's just being passed around. They don't even give a damn about this debt no more.

They keep saying whenever I get my damn refund check, I'm going to pay this debt. They never do. Right. But when I've seen it, I've seen something deeper than the average bear when I seen the debt. I seen that when they had that first party on that debt, I seen that saying, hey, even though they got bad debt, right? That bad debt doesn't necessarily reflect them. because they had, you got to be somewhere in life

to get a $40,000 credit card. I don't give a damn what the person telling me. At some point in time, for a bank to issue you a $40,000 credit card, at some point in time, you had to do something right at some gimmick. And I'm starting to see this. As I'm starting to see this part of it,

I'm starting to get deeper into it. Like, nah, let's look at it. But then as I'm looking at it, I'm saying to myself, like, hold up. they got bad credit because of this. But at the debt collection place, they got these things where you can actually,

if you can't find a debtor, they put you in a system where you can find a debtor. And they call that thing that, they call that thing skip tracing, right? In skip tracing, they're going to use certain tools, right? They're going to use,

they got companies out here like Accurate, TLO, Lexis, Nexus. These things have more information on a person than an average credit report. A credit report is just going to have the account. And the account is just going to be where, how long they had that account, who they had that account for them, if it's a mortgage on there, credit card, any of these things that's going to be on there.

But the opposite end of this is... One or two addresses. One or two addresses, right? Inquiries. It's not going to get too... It's not going to say, hey, who was your... What was your high school or what was your college roommate's name? What color was the vehicle you were driving in college?

Because that's like that's how insane it gets with those, with LexisNexis anyway. Yeah, with Lexis Nexus, and so those credit reporting agencies, right, are, I mean, well, I'm going to say the right word, not credit reporting agents because they're two different ones. There's one as credit reporting agencies like Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. And then there's another set, which is called consumer reporting agencies that actually, um, that they got all of that. I think they got them now, because they're on the internet now, like True Finder and all those kind of stuff,

white pages, you can find them anywhere now. It's a massive database. A massive database. Like if you and I lived at the same residence, they'll know you lived at the same residence and maybe even what job you had, what kind of vehicle you were driving,

because your credit report knows all that. So it's all kind of tied in. That's how they can go, this is insane. Like this person, they'll call you and you're like, I haven't talked to that guy in five years. Yeah, but five years ago you lived,

You were his roommate. How do you know that? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's... And especially when you start talking about what color of the car that you had, does this person have veterinary insurance, what was the tag number of the car that you had? Did this person have fishing license?

Did this person have a ticket? And what county in such and such is there a ticket? It says all of this on these consumer reporting agencies. But me working at that debt collection agency, I seen all of this stuff and I seen the way that they retrieved this information. So they got my head to wondering. My head was wondering because it was saying to myself that this person has got a $40,000 credit card, a $60,000 credit card. How did they get it? Then I look at it there.

Then I'm able to look at a credit report not really understanding credit. I don't really understand credit, Matt. But what I do see is that this person here has, there's two identifiers. One identifier that we're going to talk about is one is when you start talking about somebody that has bad credit, then there's another one where somebody has life credit. Those are two different ones. Bad credit is where I paid my Macy's bill, right, but I didn't pay my city card, right? I didn't pay my light bill, but I did pay my discovery. That's bad credit.

Life credit is saying, to hell with all of y'all, I ain't paying nobody, nothing, right? And usually that come from something that occurred in life, whether it was a divorce, whether it was a loss of job, whether it was a sickness, it was something that actually kind of strung out from that part, right? And so when I'm able to identify both of those masters that are on there, right, that kind of takes me to a different level of it, right? because now I got to identify these two different ones and look at them saying, hey, which one is this one? Is this life credit?

This bad credit? What's going on? If it was a life credit, I don't know what I'm doing, Matt, but I know that I got to do something because this, I could see potential in this. Right? The potential is how do I get rid of bad credit? What is, because all the stuff now that they're doing on the internet, as you've seen on social media with all this credit repair stuff, this stuff wasn't around then. when nobody talking about no credit repair, fixing credit repair and all of these systems that they got and everybody's trying. This is when you had to get it out the mud, like trying to figure it out, right?

And that led me to figuring out saying, hey, how do I fix credit? Right. There wasn't a lot of books on no credit. There wasn't what you call it, no YouTube channels to kind of show you where this was with this stuff. There wasn't chat GPT to put your stuff in here, right? I got to figure this stuff out on my office. own. So one thing that I figured out was when I went back home to Atlanta, I remember I was riding down the street on Peachtree Street and I looked over my left, bam, it hit me. And you

said, what did it hit? It hit me right then when I seen that damn Equifax that was sitting right there, right? I said, that's damn Equifax right there. That's the credit people right there. The whole credit people. But as you know, you can't get it. You can't get it. No damn Equifax, man. Everything's located right there. Right? And so I'm trying to figure all of this out, still trying to figure out how to do credit.

But one of the things that triggered me was I'm like, man, I got to figure out how to get in here. I'm thinking up my alley. Who can I talk to about Equifax? Who can I talk to about this? And lo and behold, across the street, there's a bar that sits directly. If you ever been to, you've been to Atlanta, Matt? Okay.

I've driven by the Equifax. Credit building. Okay. Across the street from it, right, is to have a little plaza. In that plaza, it sits at the time. Now, they had a bar over there. I decided to go to that bar. When I got to that bar, that bar changed my life.

Because when I got into that bar, I remember I'm sitting in there, right? I just wanted something to eat, chill, nothing more. You want to find somebody that works at Echo Credit? Who came in? They got the little lanyard. And the thing that comes in and says Equifax services that came in there, I'm just talking to the guy about, I'm just talking to him. And then next thing you know, now I'm entering to happy hour time over there, right? Entering a happy hour time.

You start to meet some people over there, continue to talk to them. And they're starting to tell me about credit a little bit more than I actually knew about credit. Now I got in my mind is that I got to figure out, use. the knowledge that they're giving me, I got to figure out how to get this stuff off the credit, right? That's when I started finding out about the government agencies, about FCRA, about the Fair Credit Reporting Act, about people that are actually governed to watch over credit, right? Understanding what are these laws, how these laws even makes, can this laws even be used? Right now it's easier for people. Then it was not easy.

No, back then you get to take it off one credit report and then. And they put it on the other two. And then you get taken off that. And this one would show back up. But then after that, people started suing the shit out of them, too. And they started changing the laws, too. Start changing the laws. Yeah.

I do have a question that I feel like you've skated over. Okay. Is why are you trying to take things off of people's credit? Like, are you thinking, are you thinking steal these identities and fix the credit? or are you thinking come up with an agency? There's currently places that are talking about do it, but they're not doing it well, and how can I do it better, maybe start my own place?

Like, why are you trying to do it? Because you work for a collection company. Yeah. That's not your job. Not no, I'm working for the collection agency, but I'm also learning that these files that they have at the collection agency, right, when I'm seeing somebody that got a $40,000 credit card, my mind triggers.

I'm saying this person can get another $40,000 credit card, if they got the negative things off their credit. I got to look at it before. What made them, because it shows you on your credit report in chronological order about your credit report. It says, hey, this date, this account was open. This date, this account was open. So as I'm looking at the credit report, it would show me the date that this $40,000 credit card was open. But then it also showed me the accounts that they had before that date.

So in my head, in my why head, right, is I'm thinking about I can do something with this bad credit, right? I don't know what, but I believe that maybe I can get a credit card. And that was one of the first things that I did do, right? As I did try to go get a credit card with somebody else's credit by stealing their actual identity. There is. By stealing their actual identity, right? I got to say it, man. Because you know how it's.

Because you know how it is. You do something and it's like you got to own up to it, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I stole somebody identity, right? And that's just what it was. Still in their identity, which led me to saying, hey, I got my first one out, right? What was the first one?

The first one that I received was a $2,000 credit card. When I got a $2,000 credit card, I used that $2,000 credit card for something. I forgot what it was, but it was something like $150, $200, $200. laws. As soon as I use that credit card, right? The moment that I use that credit card, they shut the credit card down. Fuckers.

Yeah, they shut it down because they wanted me to send in more information, more stuff. So you know how to get into that stuff like they... Send a copy of your utility bill, sent a copy of your license, sent a copy of why they opened the credit card and began with it. Yeah, they opened it, allow me to do it. I did that for a couple times and they allowed me,

and they did that. So I'm like, man, there's something going on. But then as they're doing this, they're also explaining to me about what's going on. They're saying to me saying, hey, you did not get approved for this one because of your debt to credit is too high. And I'm like, what is that? What is that even doing? So when I find out it's the debt to credit, I got to figure out in my head, I'm like, so what does that even mean? right? And then somebody explains it to you. It's because you got so much outstanding debt left,

even though that you make a certain amount money, we don't like it because you're over a certain percentage mark. We want your percentage mark to be under this in order for you to get that. So now I'm like, okay. Did it prove more income. Got to prove more income. Then it started hitting me. As I'm doing this stuff, I'm going over and over. And now I'm going to the bank. And now I'm saying, hey, well, I want to get a $10,000 loan or a $5,000 loan. And I'm thinking about, man, if I'm doing this credit stuff, I just do it myself or whatever like that on me, my personal. They're telling me, as I'm doing this stuff,

I remember this day vividly. This is one of the days I always talk about that changed my life forever. And that was when I went to that bank that day and that lady said, she says, the underwriter is not in today. I said, so what's going on? She said that the underwriter is at a conference. I said, oh, so the underwriter is at a conference? She said, yeah, they go to a national underwriter's conference every year.

I said, so what does an underwriter do? She said, the underwriter person is a person that actually sees, overseas their account to see if you're going to get approved or not. But I thought my entire life, I was under the assumption that the banker was the person that made the decision, right? I don't know this. I'm thinking it's the banker.

Because I remember as a childhood that we used to always get dressed up and go see when my parents, when I go to see the banker, I had to put on some clean clothes and come inside and watch my face and put on a shirt and top. Like it was a big thing to go to the bank.

Like, and now I'm finding out that the person that's the banker is not the person that makes a decision. It's not making sense to me. Then they're telling me saying, no, we sent your stuff over to a loan officer. I'm asking, what is a loan? I mean, this is the person that's assigned to the loan to gather the documents to making sure that they give them to the actual underwriter. I'm saying, hmm. They determine creditworthiness. Exactly. But when I'm doing this, I'm hearing all of this stuff, it keeps triggering me.

That's why I said I got to go back to the Y kid. You can't just tell me anything. I got to keep going back to that because as I'm digging deeper, I start to find out about conferences. I started digging about conferences and come to find out, I remember that I was in the public library. And when I was in the public library, they got this, it's like a, it's like a newspaper, not a Wall Street. Street Journal, it's like a financial Times type of paper, right? And it was just talking about a lot of stuff that was going on. And one of it was they had an underwriters' conference

just out of the blue. I'm looking at it, and the underwriters' conference was in Dallas, Texas, at a Crown Plaza Hotel downtown. So if anybody here knows Dallas, Texas, you know the Crown Plaza. That Crown Plaza had an underwriters' conference. And so I went there.

And that's what I talk about in the books all the time, like going to, when I went to conference. And then when I went there, in order to go to that conference, I don't know what the price was, was it? But I knew it was like $6, $800. I know it was a lot of money. Right. Right. And in order to get there, you got to pay that. Right. And sometimes you've got to be affiliated with somebody who's sending you. Like, is there a bank that's sending you an organization, a financial system, and that sort of thing? So when I'm finding this out, I just always know, let's go back, Matt, when we talked about before, the people that are you. The people that are you,

that make the lowest amount of money, right? They control the most, like I was telling you about the debt collector. Under this right here, finding out with them is that the person that's controlling the whole place, right? I'm looking at everybody's walking around at this conference and they got this thing on their neck, right? And when they got this thing on their net, they're able to walk and people let them walk freely. So I'm like, whoa, how do I get one of those things on my neck? and I just remember that the lowest cost person.

And so I remember asking one of the guys there or something, and then they got a security guard that kind of, they got what you call a registration desk. And at this registration desk, this allows people that are signed up for the conference to come there and get whatever they come into the conference for. But behind the registration desk, they have the boxes of all the stuff that the registration,

people are used to give to other people when they come. So either when they come, they give them like a bag with certain stuff that's in it. Some of the stuff might be gifts or whatever, right? I just seen the people go get the bag, sign up, get the lanyard. I got to figure out how to get one. Now, at the end of the registration period time, they got the guy that's coming around there that's kind of walking around. I think the security guard, I think, that's what he is.

He walks around and I'm watching his rounds. watching his round. When after he watches his rounds, I go back behind the desk, right, and I see that they have, um, delayance there, right? Now, back in the day, they used to, uh, just write your name on them. Now you can go, I think at conferences now, being to them now, they have them printed on them already, ready to go. But this- At Medcan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health, from the big milestones to the quiet wins. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led

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Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Back in the day, they'll just write your name on a marker and then just put it on the lane and then you're in there that would prove that you had to think. Well, that's what I did. I found that lanyard, put my stuff on it, and now I'm actually at this conference.

But when I'm in this conference now, the following day, I'm at the conference, I'm moving around, talking with different people. And I was doing this one thing, Matt, which is crazy, which is I would talk to one person and get some information, and then I would go over here and talk to somebody else and tell them about the information that I got. as though I already knew it.

Right. And so now I'm indirectly being accepted into this type of sobity that I don't even really know what I'm into. I just know that these are the people that are, they're walking around saying I'm at, I don't know, SunTrust Bank. I'm at such and such bank. And that's when I realized, I said, damn, there's a hell of a lot of banks here, right? And even at this underwriting conferences. What does your land yours say?

What banker you would? Not with a bank, I just got my name on it. Okay. Right? I just got my name on it. And here, that's what I'm meeting people, and they're telling me and saying, hey, I'm asking them about loans. They said, no, we don't, I don't do loans. I do securities.

I said, what? You do securities? And then they're being to tell me about the securities and things that nature. I'm missing to this guy here. He's telling me here, he's about, he's here for insurance underwriting, right? I'm missing this guy here talking to him. He's telling me he's about mortgage underwriting. I'm listening to the guy, this guy, you know, there's so,

I didn't understand that there's so many different types of underwriting, right, or even what went into it. But as they're talking to me, they'll start to explain a lot of stuff to me, which I'm not able to leave from there and go back where I come from and start to plug in my head because now it's like, yo, this stuff is, they're moving this stuff. And they're talking about making sure you got paperwork,

Making sure you got this because even at this conference, they have these other little rooms that they got stuff going in at, right? People are in there talking about X, Y, and Z. And I'm just soaking up all this information. That's all of them doing at this point. So what ultimately you're trying to do with the information, figure out how to take the information and steal identities or steal identities from people that have bad credit? but be able to clean up their credit because they think there's credit trashed. So they're not really checking into it. Is that what you're thinking?

Is that what you're thinking like, hey, I got a report on this person. This person's trashed. They know they're trashed. And if I take him and clean it up, he's not going to be checking his credit. He's thinking that's done. I'm done with the spot now. So I don't work there no more. But what I do got, Matt, is I've already, I've been there for now.

I've been at that place where I was at now for probably give it, take about six months. I built enough people of commodity of the people that are working there, right? And I'm telling them exactly what I, because you got to think, I work there. So I know the system. I know what they can and what they can't do, right? I know who's the people that is hurting for money. I know this stuff now. So if I'm telling them, say, hey, man, I need you to do X, Y, and Z for me. I mean, I'll give you a couple dollars, this, that, and the third. Yeah, I'll get you one. No, no, no, no. Get me some files that look like this. Give me some files that look like this, because I know that if I can go in there and clean up those files exactly what you said,

I know that I can get it back to the original form. It was when they first got that $40,000 credit card. Now I'm asking myself, what else, what more can I do with this? Right? Because I keep asking myself, why, why, why? So even when I was going to those underwriting conventions, I'm just trying to get the information primarily from them to see what else is it that I can do. So when I'm trying to figure out this now, I said,

oh, well, why don't you get loans? I said, loans. I mean, I'm talking, it's a weird thing. I got to talk as though I already know something when I don't know it is still allowing you to teach me acting like I know it, right? So I'm saying, yeah, yeah, loans, yeah, yeah. I try to get one of those loans before. Yeah, you know, yeah, but you know, you got to make sure that you got your paycheck stubs

or this, that, and the third. I said paycheck stubs, boom. I said, well, now I got to find somebody that can make me some paycheck stubs. Now I got to get an ID. Where can I get somebody to get me an ID? This is back then. Like, I got to find somebody to get me an ID. I got to find all of these different things.

Then it came up to me saying, hey, you know what? All we need for you to do is to send this stuff is just paperwork. And that's when it hit me. That's when the light bulb goes off because there's never no money. All of this stuff is just paperwork. The whole game is just paperwork. If you can produce the paperwork, you can produce the paper. When they hit me on that one, I'm like, man, how can it not?

You produce the paperwork. You produce the paper. So now I got to figure out what paperwork are they looking for to produce the paper. So then I was sitting there one day, and I've never forget, the lady was sitting there saying, hey, well, we got to make sure that we got to verify with your taxes. I said, okay, I got that. So now I got to get somebody to actually do some taxes. I gave her the taxes. She said, no, we don't want you to bring me in no taxes.

What we want you to do is sign off on this paper. I said, what is this paper? She said, at the top of the paper, it read 4506, and I had a dash and a T. I said, man, what is this? She said, this is a tax transcript. We will pour your taxes for you. I said, damn it. I said, so what are you, I mean, what does this mean?

Just sign your name and we'll pull your taxes. They're going to go to the IRS. They're going directly to the IRS. And that's what triggered me because I said, now I said, whoa, if they're going to the IRS, there's no way that you can beat it, right? There's no way that you can beat if they go to the IRS. Yeah, but if you've stolen the correct person's information, they're going to get his and he may be making $300,000 a year.

He may be making $300,000 a year, or maybe. what you can do is you can file for, you can file taxes in a person name already that's never had taxes before and put it in the system anyway, right? And that's what I was saying about creating the paperwork for a person, because once I realized, once then, when I realized that I say, well, they need a W-2 form,

I got to find somebody that can make me a W-2. They said, well, Flame, you got, you got $100? I said, yeah, we can make a, I can get you, I can make you a W2. I said, shit. Or you can make me a W2? I said, yeah. I said, wow.

Then I started realizing that as you keep getting this paperwork and you keep going up in the genre, right? Now I got to do the opposite end. And that is when you start to figure out everything and walk inside banking institutions, right? Because now you've got to get a loan. That's why I said that unique qualification of you're sitting in front of somebody like this. Matt, look, I'm looking dead at you in your eye, right? But while I'm looking at you dead in your eyes, around you, I can see that picture on the wall right there.

That picture is you and your daughter at a soccer event behind you as your graduation. When you graduated college, over here is that. And I'm looking over here all while still looking straight. And this is the stuff that got that rushing to me. Because now I'm actually entering to a world where I am, see, when I'm doing the paperwork, that's an identity theft too. it is, but when you're actually sitting in front of somebody and you're somebody else, that's a totally different feel, right?

Because now they're talking to you as Jonathan Martin. They're talking to you as Gregory Hines. They're talking to you as these people. And you've got to be here to answer all those questions about that person if it came up, if they wanted to do identity. So these are the type of things that I'm talking about pertaining to that. You get what I'm saying now? Yeah, I understand.

And I'm saying at some point, are we borrowing money here? What are we doing? No, no, no. Where's the fraud? Like, what are we? No, that's it. Right. So when I'm going in front of them, I'm going to ask to get a loan.

Yeah. Right? I'm getting a loan in someone else's name. Yeah. Right? But when I'm going to go. But you already clean that person's credit up or is this a brand new person? No, I'm cleaning.

I'm cleaning up this person credit. Okay. Because I've already did my research on the credit side of it. I'm already did my research on the credit side about how to remove certain these items that's on here. Okay. Because when I looked at the credit report before, I'm looking at the credit report saying that there's three ways, there's only three ways to clean up credit.

Only three. One is that you're going to use case laws, right? So as I'm looking at this stuff, as you were talking about earlier, about how these people are always getting sued all the time, I'm looking at the lawsuits about the ones that they lost, that these credit reporting agencies, Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion, I'm looking at the ones that they actually lost. I'm looking at what a favor is because in order to put something negative on somebody credit report,

it has to be 100% verifiable and has to be 100% accurate. If you can show any inaccuracy on a credit report at that moment, now I forced a hand and understanding the system because when I was doing the credit report, I'm looking at the system and the system is not making sense to me. I'm sending a letter into the credit report, but I don't know what happens until they send a letter back. saying X, Y, and Z. Because now I have to understand about how to go into a credit profile.

One of the first things that I had to do was I got to be able to control the account. You can't control no account unless you can control the address. That's the only way that you can control any credit account is by making sure that you change the address on the file first. Once you get the address changed on the file, even on any identifying documents that you need, now I can control the actual account. Now, when I'm controlling the address on the account, this is for any correspondence that I got going back and forth with a credit reporting agency of me getting the negative items off. So when I'm getting them off, I'm using some of these case laws and studies that I've looked up and that I've seen because I'm doing this thing now is that when I seen it, I said, oh, this person here has been sued. And then I said, well, they've been sued by such and such.

or they got this thing called the FCRA, which is their Fair Credit Reporting Act, and I said these are laws that governs the credit report. If I can find anything that violate them in this, then that helps me remove these things off the credit report. Then they got these other laws, which is called the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. If I look into these laws and I can figure out what this stuff is doing, now I've got to figure out this whole system of when I,

sent a letter in and where does that letter go before I get a return before I get a return on it? And that's when I learned, I said, hey, when I learned the government factors of it, the first government factor I learned was I said, hey, when you send a letter in to them, right, they have this system. I got to understand these systems. One of the first systems that I learned was one called E. Oscar, which is an online source for complete and accurate reporting. Now, what does E. Oscar do? E-Oscar gives you the code for anything that's negligent on a credit report. There's 29 different dispute codes. Notice now as of, I don't know if this changed now, but then it was only, if you did something online,

they would only give you four or five reasons that you can dispute it. They would say, is it not yours, this, that, and the third. But there's 29 different dispute codes. Why are you not using them? When you're able to use the dispute codes that's on the credit profile, and then when you're able to use the dispute codes, now I can understand the language that I need to use inside of the letter.

Inside of the letter, that makes me change the direction of where I want the letter to go to get the things off of it. A lot of people, when they're doing the dispute, they're just saying this is not mine, this is inaccurate information. That's baloney. Or they may say some stuff on the credit report

that I learned later on. They'll say, I was involved in, what's that thing called? I was involved in like FEMA or I was involved in a hurricane or something like that. Right. Well, when I was at a bank one time, the lady told me she said at the bank, she said, well, if it says that you've been in a hurricane, how does that let us know that you can pay? Because that means you're going through something.

I said never again when I use that code because you just indirectly told them that you're going through something. So if you're going through something, that means that you're not going to be able to pay. That's why these dispute codes mean something. The three things is being able to use case law, being able to use cases, and then you're able to use UCC. So between you using actual law, factual disputing and factual disputing, right, which means that you're sharing something that actually occurred and you're being able to provide evidence, being able to provide evidence, but the evidence that I'm providing at this time

was all fraudulent evidence to say that I did something. Because you got two different communicators. You got your credit reporting agency over here, and you got the actual debt that you owe. So your credit reporting agency could be Equifax. But the person that you may owe may be somebody like American Express, maybe somebody like a Discover, maybe somebody like a Capital One.

Those are called your data furnishers. Those data furnishers are the people that give the information over to the credit reporting agencies to get the information. Now, when I'm able to use this information, now that's allowing me to get the negative things off the credit report and go inside the bank to actually get these actual loans that I'm looking to get these loans for them. And don't forget, when I'm in there,

the bank is telling me exactly what they're looking for and exactly what they need. They telling me saying, hey, we need you to give us two years of tax returns. Right? So I'm able to call a buddy, right? You know, you call your buddy and say, hey, man, I need two years of tax return. Right. Right.

I'm able to do X, Y, and Z. And now they're able to give me the tax returns that I need alongside with giving me some fraudulent ID and allow me to go inside the banking institution and go out and pull the money from the bank from that way. Because they're able to fund their account. Once you actually open their account, now they're able to fund you based upon the loan that you decide to get after you being able to get approved. And so when you get the negative items off, once you get those negative items off and you take that same account that's in there, now you can attach that. And that's when the lady was telling me at the bank. I was at one bank before. I'll tell you the exact location of the bank.

It's over now. A bank was a PNC bank, right? And this PNC bank located in Columbus, Ohio, right? And when I was at this PNC bank, when I was in there, the dude said, hey, why don't you get a business loan? I said, what? He said, why don't you get a business loan? I said, what? He said, you can get a business loan.

A business loan ain't doing nothing but attaching, if you got a business, you can attach your personal to your business and be a PG. I said, what's that? He said, that's being a personal guarantor on the loan. And then with how good your credit looked, you can actually get approved for a $75,000 loan and then that right there, that'll be the money that you're looking for. I said, huh?

He said, yeah, this is what you could do. And from that point, that's where this stuff started escalating. Is that when you're seeing how these loans can take you into these different places, now you're seeing what else can I add into it. You know what I'm saying now? And seeing what direction can I go with you? Right. Were there any close calls?

I'll get you into that. Were there any other people that were helping you? like these guys that are helping, you know, who else is helping you? Do they get caught? A lot of stuff that happened. Even going through Charlotte, North Carolina. Charlotte, North Carolina is a very interesting place. They have a bank there, right?

And that bank was called Fifth Third. I don't know if you're familiar with that bank or not. Yeah, right? Yeah. Fifth Third. Now, Fifth Third had a very unique setting at this bank. This bank has what you call a red light green light, right? that if you're on one side of it's two splits.

When you walk in the bank, it has a red light that stops you at the door. Green means that you can pull the door and walk on in. Well, even if you're on the opposite side of the door, the door only opens up with the red light and the green light. Now, why is that important for this? It's because I'm inside the bank and I'm working on the loan. And as I'm working on this loan, this fifth third bank that I'm at now it's in a place,

they got an old mall over there in Charlotte. I forgot the name of that mall. Eastside Mall, Eastland Mall, if somebody from Charlotte didn't know that mall. Eastland Mall, I think, that's what it is. And in front of it, sit a fifth-third bank. When I go inside this bank here, I go in the bank, I never forget the lady,

the banker, she was a tall, athletic lady or whatever, and we're working on the loan. Now, as you know, I got these different IDs that I got, When I'm walking in this particular bank on my ID, it's a South Carolina ID that I have. But I noticed it too, but I didn't think too much of it, that if you've ever dealt with fake IDs, you can kind of see at the top, the bleed line wasn't all the way correct at the top. And I have this thing with his call a pretty much, it's like a 180 rule. Now, what is my 180 rule?

The 180 rule is if somebody takes my ID and it leaves my possession for more than 180 seconds, which is basically three minutes, right, leave. Don't worry about nothing. Just get about it there. You know what I mean? And so she took my ID. I'm getting ready to close on a loan today. I think this date alone might have been for something.

This was more of a personal loan. This was more of something like a $20,000 loan or $25,000 loan. whatever their max was at that time. And she took my ID and she left. But we're getting ready to close on the loan at the same time. But while she left with my ID, I'm still kind of concentrating on looking forward. But at the same time, I'm counting in my head.

Like it's just a clock, like 79, 80. And I'm like, man, she's taking too long. So as I get ready to As I get ready to kind of turn around And kind of check out on some things I could see some sudden movement That's in the back of the bank Me on the other hand

I'm like man I can't do this I gotta get up out of here When I get up out of it When I get up out of my seat I starts to walk to the door When I walk to the door I'm walking in through the Walking through the door getting ready to try to walk out of the bank

I'm like to hell with that damn ID I don't even want that ID no more. I'm gone. Right. Because she's taking too long. It's just too long right now. As I head to the door, the lights on it is red. I'm like,

oh shit. They got me trapped. It's like a trap door for you to understand in order to get out this door. It's like they got to buzz you out. They got to buzz me out. They got to buzz me out. And as I'm sitting there, the lady says he's in there. I'm like,

oh shit. I'm I'm done with. As I'm coming in, somebody else is coming into the bank on the opposite side. But the lady made a mistake and let me out on my side. And so I got my guy there, my guy, I call him D, right? My guy, D, he's in the passenger side. I mean, he's in the parking side of the car, but it's facing this way. Like, he backed into the spot.

I had to get in this car and we got, and we got to wait. Like it was the craziest thing because when we turned that corner, soon as we turned that corner, the cops came from this side, right? They came from this side and we barely missed them on that end on that one. You could have been on one of those body cam videos. They play on YouTube. Oh, yeah.

Or they're questioning the person. They're saying, I don't know. I don't. Yeah, for sure. That's my, dude. Then there was another one. There's another one where I was at this, At a bank, they don't have a bank no more.

It's called SunTrust Bank. They still got it, but they changed it to Truest, I think. Oh, okay. Yeah, SunTrust. I remember SunTrust. Yeah, SunTrust. They had a bank that was called SunTrust. And when I'm in SunTrust, this is in Atlanta.

When I'm in SunTrust, I'm in the bank as I'm sitting inside this bank, right? I had just got a loan probably about, I had to be roughly about two weeks ago from another SunTrust Bank in Atlanta. But I'm at a different location at this bank, and I'm now in the bank, I'm sitting in there. And as I'm sitting in the bank getting a loan, I'm faced this way.

Again, the lady, the lady leaves out the office and says she leaves out the office going to take my ID. Again, I'm counting in my head. another lady is in the bank, but she was the actual one that gave me the loan at another location who just so happens to be

at this branch this day. When she sees, she said, that's my buddy. She said, that's my buddy, Mr. Jeremy or something. Right? And the lady was like, that's not Jeremy.

That's such and such. And they're back there talking. While they back there talking, they figured it wasn't me, right? The lady comes back in and talks to me. As she comes back in and talks to me, I still don't see the lady that I seen at the last location because I'm behind her.

She can see me from this way, right? Because they got the glass and the cops come in, right? And you know how they do that old thing? They tap you on the shoulder or whatever. They tap you on the shoulder, tell you about that. And they came and got me, right? The first, you know, to ask you the first couple of questions, stay right here.

Kind of like you said on the body cam. You know what I mean? Sit right here. This is your ID? Yes, this is your ID? They already know what the information is and all this kind of stuff like this. Now, meanwhile, I got somebody outside waiting on me because I always have to bring somebody to there, right? They don't know how I actually came to the bank, but that person seen the cop, and you know what they did.

They left, right? Which left me there. Ended up my first, this is my first occurrence of what I'm actually doing, actually going to jail for what I did, right? But while I'm in jail, I got a little bond on me. They gave me a little bond. I think it might have been like $2,500 or something like that. Ended up getting out of that case. Ended up beating that case, for that matter.

So, as you know, once you start one crime, if you ended up beating the case, I think, no, I didn't beat that case. They gave me a lesser charge of something. You know, I didn't give you a lesser charge of something like that. How much was the loan you were applying for? That one might have been for like, it was a short one. Oh. That was like a 15 or something.

Okay. That was going to say it was another personal loan. That was another personal loan. That was another person. What year was this? This man, shit. This had to be 2010. Okay.

2010. Because when I was doing personal loans, which is just one of the, you know, like, if you already got perfect credit, you got the ID and everything. Like, I was doing mortgages. Like, I was talking about the mortgages because those were big. loans but I was also usually what I do is I'd borrow like let's say five mortgages in somebody's name and then and then of course you know you're you're you're out like this like the most you could really kind of borrow and then I'd go ahead and I'd run up their credit cards and then I go apply for multiple

personal loans and the max personal loan at that time was 15,000 it was it was double it was they would lend you double whatever you made in a month, up to 15,000. So if you said, oh, I make 8,000 a month, then you go, that's 16,000. Yeah, but the max is 15 at that time. But now it's way higher. Like, because I had met another guy who had was doing it. And it was like, but this was like in 2015, it was like 20 grand or 25 grand. Like they jacked it up the rate. That was the max the Fed had set for kind of, I don't know, guaranteeing those kinds of loans. So that's what you said, you said, you said, You said 20 and 25, and I thought, well, that must have been.

Well, and it may have just been, that may not have been a, that may have been just the bank. You know, the bank can do its own loan. Your own loan. But these were the ones that I knew the underwriting guidelines for. You see what I'm saying? Like I knew. I show up with, if I had over like a 700 credit score or 650 or 700 credit score and I had a pay stub. Yeah.

And they would give me double. And I never really went to 15. I was going to like 14 and change. You know, I'd have like $7,200. and they give you, they go, oh, we can go 14, 400. And that's kind of like when I kind of start learning that. And this was like one of those big things, too, is learning the difference between the bank and a credit union. Right.

And learning that saying, hey, this bank may only, this bank may only give you a certain amount. But this credit union may give you something totally different. Yeah, well, everybody's different. Yeah, everything's different. Sometimes you're going on lines, yeah, for sure. And you want to almost say to the bank, well, fucking Wachovial, they'll do this. It's like, why would you know that? Yeah.

Because I got six other identities. I just heard you. I thought you guys would match it. Yeah, for sure. So what, so the, so you got arrested. Do they, they question you? Well, they questioned me. But the thing about it was, at that time, the only ID that I actually had in my position was the ID from there.

I had. I had, but the IDs that I had were actually inside of the car. Remember, I told you when the police, he left. So that kind of implicated me, got me up out of that. that situation. Well, that's good because they... It's like the cops know these things. Like, when they show up, if you sat there and said, yeah, man, listen, I don't, I don't,

I want to talk to my lawyer. If you, if you sat there, they'd be like, oh, okay, they'd already be like, well, listen, whoever he, these guys, somebody's in the car. Yeah. There's a car around. So they're going to kind of drive around and stop somebody and be like, hey. And he was when, after it was over it, he kind of told me, he was like, hey, when I seen that cop roll up, I ruled out.

Yeah. And he said, you know, that's a smart thing to do. Because if they search that car and they find. six IDs with your picture on it. It's not good. Oh, for sure. You know, and that was a whole thing about me is that, you know, at any given time that that I could have these IDs on me at that time. That was back

then when we was getting a lot of these IDs from over there in China. When they was ordering those, they was ordering those IDs and they was coming back fresher. Or you got a buddy that got some IDs and you can buy them for, say, $300 a pop or something like that. Yeah. Bozac, which was a credit card guy, He said it was always the Russian websites.

He's like, you could order, he said you'd order, he's, you might have to order three, three from each one, the same ID from three different places to get one. He's like, because they'll fuck you. They'll just take them. For sure. But they were all right. Yeah, two, three hundred bucks. Yeah, two, three hundred bucks. Yeah.

He's a book. But if you get a good guy, if you get a good one, he's like, I mean, that's worth, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, uh, it's, uh, he had, he had amazing. He would get amazing scams and then he'd just do something stupid. You're just like, the fuck are you making hundreds of thousands a month? And then you would rent like a, you'd rent a room using a stolen credit card. It's like, you've got 300,000 in the bank right now. Why would you do that? Yeah.

And he would, he'd be like, well, why wouldn't I just use the, because what if it gets reported solely? He's like, well, yeah, this is what happened. That's how I got caught. But, you know, she's not thinking. You start getting so cocky and arrogant and so emboldened by all your successes, you start to think you're infallible. Oh, no, you do. You do.

You do. You do. You do. You do. You start to run its course so much, especially like, you know, even when you start to grab these, like even with the credit cards, right? I'm getting the credit cards and I'm trying to figure out how the fuck. I use somebody credit card.

Well, I get the credit card in their name. I got it. It's running. I got 10,000. well, we know the rule. It's a street rule, right? Whatever you get, somebody pay for half. Well, I'm only getting half off the credit cards if I do it that way.

But then that's when I got more creative in the Y game, is that when I started saying to myself saying, why? Why would that happen? Why would this happen? And I would go in and I say the words saying, hey, you know what? If I create a, if I take a credit card, I got to insert it somewhere for it to come off. In order for that to occur, I mean, this wouldn't even an insert at the time.

That was a swipe. Right? you'll swipe the card and you'll use it. But then it got interested in me because I'm saying, well, why don't I just create my own, why don't I just create my own bank, right? Meaning that I would take another credit profile, take that credit profile, attach it to a business, take that business and get a merchant account on it. When I take that merchant account on it, right?

Now I can take that merchant account. This was back then now where you got the big processor, the big processor, the big processor, that sits up there, it kind of sits probably by the size of this right here, right? And you can actually take credit cards from that way. So now I can make one purchase on a credit card for if the credit card was $10,000, I can make that purchase for $3,000.

I can make that purchase for $3,000 again and $2,500 and max that credit card out and get every dime off of that credit card which is going to the actual purchase of that account. Because don't forget, the credit card that I actually got, I actually made that credit card because the actual owner of the credit card don't even know it exists

because I create that whole account on that. So you don't have to worry about a charge back? I don't have to worry about a charge back. They're not going to know about this credit card usually from the moment that I get it. Because usually the first thing that you've got to do on credit cards anyway is you had to make smaller purchases first making sure building up your reputation

with the actual bank, to let them know that this is cool. Right? And then I will go in and make those bigger purchases. With those bigger purchases, now that actual bank knows that saying, hey, this person is cool. I don't have to worry about none of this stuff coming back on me for 60 to 90 days. And when you get a credit card, you can usually get about two or three of them at the same time. Are you initially making the payments on the cards just so they're in good standing for a few months? Well, on the loans I would.

On the credit cards, I wouldn't. On the loans, I would always make about two or three payments on every loan. And the way that I would do the loans on the payment was I would do this thing where they would call it automatic, what's it called? Automation taking your payment automatically. Yeah. Okay, the automated payment system, right? The automated payment system where if I got a loan for, say, $10,000, right?

And say the payments was $2.50 a month. When I took that money out of that account, I would leave all everything in this. I would take everything but $800. So they can continue to get that $250 that they needed, which was still kind of by me time on this credit line. Because any time that you got one credit profile, that one credit profile can actually increase you to get you three to four different lines on that credit profile

at the beginning of it. And then once something goes negative, which usually doesn't show up for anywhere for about 90 days, right, then that actual credit profile goes to shits at that point. Colby, you know what a chargeback is? It charged back to the... I know there's a chargeback scam, something to do with the credit cards. Well, it's basically, it's like if you're a merchant, so he's making opening a merchant account,

so he's going and saying, swipe in the card and saying, hey, this person bought $800 worth of merchandise. And then the problem is that if it was a real... If it was somebody who knew that this was happening and could discover, like let's say it was, he's not mailing these... These payments, these bills are not being mailed to the real person's address. You already changed their address. So it's going to another address that he's in control of.

If it went to the real person, then they would call and say, hey, that's not my credit card. I didn't buy that stuff. And then the credit card company would go to the merchant and they'd say, that wasn't us. That was fraud. And they'd send him the $800 back. And then he'd be charged back. That's a charge back. And then they shut the account down.

because these people don't know that they even have a $10,000 credit card, they never complained. So by the time, if they ever figured out, because they initially had bad credit. So they're not checking to see if they have bad. They already know my credit's trashed. I got a foreclosure, two repos, and six bad credit cards. So they're not even checking their credit ever.

Like they're thinking that's done. I won't be able to. Not right now anyway because they're going through something. Right. For years. So that's the least of their problem. something else is going on. And that's what I'm doing is I'm creating these,

I'm creating these trade lines for them, utilizing their stuff on that end. And even when you start to, you start to kind of dig into it, you'll see this saying, hey, even with the merchant account, being able to take the money

and put the money into that actual business account. See, that was the main thing, is being able to take that money off of that card because the credit cards, that's the thing I hated the worst. I didn't like credit cards like how, you hear a lot of people,

say, man, I like credit cards. I do credit cards. I didn't like them because they had the authority to stop the money because before you can even get the money. They could give you a $10,000 credit card. But the moment that you leave, they can turn that card off completely or reduce that limit down. Were you like the personal loans? No, I'm saying credit cards itself.

No, I know. But I say, what do you like? Oh, I love loans. I love loans, business loans. Because once they check those through, it's done. Yeah. Once they put that money in that account and you retrieve that money out of the account, it's a rat.

They can't do nothing for it. It's a gone deal. They got a bargain and negotiate with you. Well, if you don't pay, they can ruin your credit. But what do you give a shit? I don't give a damn about that credit. That's the least of my concern. You know what I mean?

That's a good for the hook. You know what I mean? I'll be giving a damn about that. But when it comes to it is, and then we got into the business side of things, the business side is where things changed completely. It's because they would give you business loans. But the business, the way that I did this business side was a little different. I would, I love regular names.

Regular names I would adore, right? And when I say a regular name, regular names are like David Allen. Right. Jeffrey, I don't know. Jeffrey Walker. Richard Johnson. Richard Johnson. Bill Smith.

Now, why do I like those regular names? Because a regular name means that over here, the secretary, estate, right? They have businesses. You go to the secretary of state, they can have businesses. They will allow you to check under a name to see if there's a business in that name. You can be able to take a business that you see in that name, and now you've got an actual business, and you can actually go down to a secretary of state, and they would actually, at the time, you could just walk in, right? And they would give you any documentation that that's already submitted saying, hey, I need to get-

This is pretty much anywhere. Yeah, well, I know, I know sunbiz.com, sunbiz.gov, that's the Florida secretary's saying. You can go online and put in a name. Yeah. And it'll tell you, oh, there's 4,500 corporations with that name, you know, or, you know, the business name, you know, maybe just variations, right? Express tax services, express, you know, food services, express what, you just put it

express. But you can, you know, you narrow it down. But if you put in, let's say, like, for the owner of the company, you can punch you in the name and it'll say, hey, there's, depending on how specific it is. Like, if it's a general, kind of a generic name, there might be 400 businesses with that name. You're John Smith. There might be 400 businesses registered under John Smith. And you've got a credit card as John Smith. No, but listen, you can take.

No, not a credit card. I mean, do you have an ID as John Smith? Yeah, you get an ID. The idea is a simple thing. You get an ID in my name. Yeah. You get the ID, but you can take. John Smith, right?

So as a John Smith, I could go to the Secretary of State and say, hey, I got a business. This is my business. Because if you notice something at the Secretary of State that you would never see at, the Secretary of State is a date of birth. They do not have data births and Social Security numbers there. Right. What you can do is you can actually get a business from them and then being able to take that business, right, create the financials on that business and go pull a loan out

on a business from underneath a person, right? Because now it's a legitimate business that they can. can actually see, right, from a banking standpoint, they can see that business. They can see that name because that name is under that business. It says John Smith. But the real John Smith was born in 1942 or 1958. But this John Smith that the ID is that you got is born in 1985. The reason that you got an 85, because it matches up to the person that is walking in there trying to get the information on that actual business. When you're able to get that number on the actual business, now you can, now you can take this information and go get these documents.

These documents are your financial documents, which means they may ask for a balance sheet, profit and loss statements. This ain't nothing but paperwork. People can create paperwork. Once they create that paperwork, they take that paperwork along with that actual business and then they're actually able to get that bank account. Don't forget, everything works off of a bank account, right? They take that bank account and now they can fund that.

bank account based upon that information of, of that actual business on that part. So they never asked for your personal taxes? No, if they ask you for your personal taxes, you can produce that to the bank. But they're not asking you that when you're going and tied to the Secretary of State to get information.

And you're having to go in? Because on SunBiz in Florida, you could just put that, all that information is public records. You can actually print it off the website. No, no, no, now you can. Now, now you can. I'm talking about back then.

It was the online, online accessibility to pretty much the world right now is online. Right, right. But back then, you couldn't do that, right? Everything I'm talking about is prior to 2011, 10, you know, that sort of thing. So I was going to say I did the same thing. I rented a guy's house named Michael Shanahan. All I knew his name was, I knew is Michael Shanahan.

That's what was on the lease. Yeah. I knew I went, this was in Georgia, went to, like, went down a, I think it was Fulton County and went downtown to public records wasn't nothing was on line at that time went down down on public records got a copy of his title looked and saw he had three mortgages in the house and I saw that his he the mortgages were like Michael S Shanahan I don't know what the S stands for exactly so I don't know his date of birth I don't know a social security number so I I get a social security number issued to him I think and then

I get, and I make up the name like Michael, like Sean Shanahan. No fucking clue. Could have been Shane. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, you don't know. But neither does public, neither does anybody else. Exactly. And then I created a fake profile.

Like I just go online and I apply for some credit cards and using a social security number that was issued to like a 10-month-old kid. So there's no profile. No. So it creates a profile. I ordered a couple of secured credit cards because I couldn't get any credit cards. Start that credit profile. Right. So now it started the profile.

And then I get a driver's license, or sorry, a fake ID, right, issued, or in the name, Michael, like, Sean Shanahan. Yeah. With a date of birth, looks like July, like July 6th, you know, 1970. No idea. I don't know what his name is. But I've got that, but it matches the credit profile. I got these secure credit cards came in. I'm living in a house that you can look it up and see that 10 years ago he bought this house.

So anybody that looks at this is like, this is Michael Shanahan. He's been living here 10 years. It's got a driver's license. He's got credit. It's not a lot of credit. He's got three credit cards. The credit cards have just been issued. So you stayed in the house with that?

Yeah. Hung out. Why didn't you? You didn't do a lease back to you or something? No, no. I had been a call. I think in mine, I, I, you know what I mean? Like making it somebody else.

So if something was happening, the lease was more in your name. No, no, I'm living there. So I, and the deeds in my name. Oh, not my name. Michael Shannon. So, but I, there were, like I said, there were multiple mortgages. I satisfied the mortgages. I created a fake satisfaction of mortgage from Bank of America.

I want to say he had two or three mortgages. He had a first mortgage, second mortgage. And I think he had like a helock. So I create three different satisfaction of mortgages. I go downtown and I record them. So now I'm living in the house and I own it. You own it. Outright.

There's no mortgages. There ain't none on it. And here's the thing. If you looked on this credit, my credit, those mortgages never existed on my credit. Not at all. So I then call three, we used to call them hard money lenders. They call them private investors now. Three part different private investors.

They don't know I called three. You think you're the only one. So I call him. He comes to the house. He says, that's worth about $200,000. I'll lend you $150,000. And let's say that's on a Monday. Yeah.

The next day at 11 o'clock in the morning, the second guy comes, and then 2 o'clock the next day or the next guy comes. Really in the same day, I think they almost all came the same day. Yeah. They don't know. They all agree to lend me $150,000. I then schedule three different closings at three different title companies. They all lend $150,000. They all lend me the money.

And then I deposit the money in a couple different bank accounts and then I remove the money. But it's the same principle. The difference is I'm... I'm using a house as a collateral. You're using a business that's been in existence for 10 years that looks like it's in your name. It's not. Not. But it's in that ID that's got your picture on it.

Got the idea. So it's, so it's, you've got all the paperwork. So the bank, when you give it to whoever, the credit union bank, whoever you're lending it to, you're giving them all the credit. If they go and they think, something's not, you know what? Let me check. Oh, no, it's in his name. Yes. He's been 10 years old.

He's been running this for 10 years. Oh, he's looked at the last few years. he's making good money, okay. You know, and so it gives you that, that gives you super credibility, right? And longevity, none of which you have, in reality. Not at all. You've had an ID for two weeks.

So that's it, right? So then, and then when they lend you the money, they just, what, do you go in to the bank and they actually cut you a check in the bank? Yeah, they would deposit the funds into the bank account. Okay. So that, usually the funds, if most of the time the funds could be available the same day, sometimes it might be the next morning, but the funds are going to be in that bank account.

It's just going to be like that. And this was, what year was, were these? All this is like 9, 10, 11, 8, you know. I was going to say, I used to go to, and I think they were. Most of the places I went to by 2008, by the time that you're doing this, they're gone. But you'll remember them. Do you remember City Group? City Group.

Okay. So I used to go to, I would go to a couple different banks for the personal loans. Yeah. And I'd go and I'd get like a personal loan for like 15 grand, another one for 15 grand. Exactly. And then I'd go to Citigroup, 12,500 is what they'd give you. And then I'd go to, do you remember American General? There was a, it was a, listen, it was shitty.

Like you could have shitty credit. They give you like 5,000. So it's like I would go and I would go. Then the credit cards, you'd go and you'd apply for credit cards with like SunTrust. You'd get like 10,000. Then you know, as the score is dropping, you're getting denied on the credit cards. Then you're going to Dillard's and you're getting $4,000 at Dillards. And then you're going to.

The weaker of credit, the lesser places. That's when people, that's when people, they used to kill me when I hear, when I hear somebody saying, hey, you know what? I'm going to get a Macy's card. I said, the hell is. you're wasting your credit for on a macy's card yeah you get that shit at the end you go to bank of america right you get that at the end you get that after things the last then i finally it would be like the gap and like home depot like 250 250 and then it's over just over you can't get it everything's just denied and you realize like i've my credit my scores have to be i don't even know

if scores are affected like that anymore but let me tell you back then every time you pull every time you pull it was like drop drop drop so you had to just keep you keep going and, and, but then you think, oh, man, it's, it sucks, but you start adding it up and you're like, I got, I got, I got $60,000 in, in credit cards. I mean, some department stores, like it, all the way to, from major credit cards and you just, you start the major credit cards, right? And just down, down, but you get, this one's 20,000, 20,000, you know, 15, you know, you know, 10, seven, okay, well, you add that up, you got 40,000, that's 40,000. then it's the 3,000, 3,000, 2,000, you know, 250.

Because a lot of times what are they not realizing is that they're going to give you credit based upon what's on your actual credit report. Right. Yeah, not because of the inquiries suck. Yeah. And that's why I was tell people, like, trying to go get something from like a chase, when you don't have nothing big on your credit profile, it's really slim to none, right? But that's why I like to always tell them saying, hey, listen, go to a credit union first.

The reason that you go to a credit union is because you got banks like Navy Federal, Andrews Federal Credit Union. You got those type of credit unions that they initially would give you some 15s, 20, 25,000s from off the gate, right? Even with not having reputable big ones on there. But you use those, and you get into those credit unions by joining, you get into not those. But you get into a lot of credit unions by joining ACC, American Consumer Council. I always tell people, man, join American Consumer Council because that will open the doors because credit unions won't let you get in unless you live, work, or worship in that particular area.

That's what most of them, like say, do you live in this area? Do you work here? Do you worship here? Right. But if you can actually join American Consumer Council, that's your back door of getting in there. That opens them all up? That opens them all up. And then that allows you to get those bigger limits.

Now you've got some bigger limits on your cards. Now you switch over and now you can go over to the chases and to the amexes to get the bigger ones. And then you're able to show the big ones because what a lot of people are not realizing too is that you use your personal credit to make sure to go get those business credit cards. And that's how you're able to go get those 40s, 50s, those even $60,000 credit cards because now you can, when they go look at your personal credit, what kills me a lot of time at is they say, well, I want to get business credit, but I don't have any personal credit. but I don't want to use my personal credit. I said, man, you've been watching too much internet TV. Because in order to get these type of credit cards from these big banks, they're going to take a look at your personal credit.

And they want to make sure that it has some type of reparable to own it. And so that's what I was saying. When I was going in, I'm making sure that I'm able to take that and then reference that over to the business loans, to go get the 150s, the 200s. Because now you can take a personal credit, for example, Here's a great example. Coming out of Richmond, Virginia,

when I'm in Richmond, Virginia, there was a bank there at the time called BB&T, right? They're still around. Okay. Yeah, that BB&T that I went to in Richmond, the lady, she allowed me to get $200,000 from the bank. The way that she allowed me to get the $200,000 from the bank, was she said,

we got to make sure that you got to have a collateral of 10% on this loan, on the business side. So I'm saying, well, how can I get 10%? on the business side, which is a number $20,000, I pulled out the personal loan, right? When I'm able to pull out a personal loan from two different credit unions, right, got the $20,000 from them, they gave me $10,000 and $10,000 on the credit union. Now I'm able to put that $20,000 into a business account, right? And now they will lend me the $200,000 because they can see the $20,000 that's been

deposited in there. And the reason that they can see that $20,000 in there is because I put it on a personal loan, but they don't know that I, they don't know that I got that loan from there. It's because you did it immediately. When you do something within the third, first, as we just talked about earlier, if you do something within the first 45 to 60 days of that loan, it's not going to show on that personal credit report right then. It's going to show after that.

That's why anytime that you're doing that, you got to move faster and faster and faster on that loan. So once you know this, once you, because this is what happened with me, once I knew, Listen, once you do it once, it's a rush. You can just do it over and over and over. So I was going to say once you know that, what you just, do you then turn around and start setting up all of your, like, hey, I know I could bar 200,000 from this bank. Yeah. I got the 200,000.

Okay. Got the money, closed everything down, walked away. Do you then say, do you then have like, I know that B, B&T is good for this loan? and I know if I get I can start setting up these these stolen identities and then I do this do you do the same thing every time you're like stolen identity go get a bank account it's got to have a five years or ten I don't know what the criteria is you know get that it's in the name got the card got this open a bank account put $20,000 into the count and then and then it's been over 45 days whatever I now go into BB&T and I apply for the loan because why?

Why do I do I do that? Because I just did it. I just did it over here. Right. Do you just, or does that become a, something you keep doing until eventually they shut the fuck, shut it down? Because that's what they do. Yeah. Six months later, they're like, nobody's getting alone.

None. But then I learned, you learn so much that you're saying, well, Wells Fargo would do it, right? So you're thinking of yourself, Wells Fargo is good, as Golden Goose at Wells Fargo is good. Then that's when I started learning about regionals. Just because something works good at this Wells Fargo in Atlanta does not mean that it works this Wells Fargo in Phoenix. Just because it works at this Wells Fargo over here, it doesn't mean that over there because I found out that in different places, they will pull different credit reports. On the West Coast, it's still a Wells Fargo, but they might pull your experience. But this is still

a Wells Fargo, and it's for the same type of loan, but they may pull your Equifax. And then that's when you start this, that's when you really start to narrow it down, just like you're saying, saying, hey, now, I got to make sure if I'm using Wells Fargo, I got to find out where is that located, and I got to find any profile that's located to over here or putting the address on that profile to make it work over here. So putting the address on that credit profile is the most significant thing because now it drives all the traffic over there. And that's why they want so much information back then.

Let's say, hey, you want to put this address in it? It's the Wild Wild West. That was when you can actually go to the post office box and reroute mail. When you can go, when you can actually send it to an actual real address if it's in that city and you can go to the post office. and reroute that mail. You know what I'm talking about now? Yeah, yeah.

You see that? They don't do that anymore? I don't know. I would think at some point they got to, if you move, they got to be able to still do it. But I don't know what the, with the criteria is of how they're doing it. You know what I mean? Because now it's a lot of, it's just. I used to just go find a fucking abandoned house and just start mail and stuff.

I would write a letter to if it was abandoned, but it looked like it just got a sign in the front of somebody's bowing the yard. They're trying to sell it. Yeah. You know, but you look at it, you think somebody could live here. Like from the street, I can't tell. Yeah. But, and then you, I would go and then I would write a letter to the postman and stick it on like the neighbor's mailbox. And so he'd say postman and he'd grab it and he'd open it and I'd say, hey, I just moved in this house.

Even if it was a, nobody would live there. Because what happens is when people move and they start not getting mail there or they get something like you just said, a change of address, they'll stop delivering mail. So I've, I write a letter to him saying, hey, I just moved in here. and I'm going to be receiving mail. And I put mail in. So within a day, he's already getting stuff that says for that address for some guy. So they immediately start delivering it again. Especially, even if it's that junk mail, you're just getting him on the right path just to start

past that mail back to that address. And you're going to get junk mail because by the time, once I've done that, I'm immediately applying for credit cards. So you're going to start getting junk mail too. Then you get on all the list. And he's like, oh, somebody definitely lives here or they bought the place. Somebody's here. There's getting all these, this mail.

I got the letter. and now anything you want, the credit cards, everything, mail there, mail there, mail there. Where before, if nobody, he thought nobody lived there, they'll stop delivering. They'll just start sending this shit back. Oh, no, they will. They will. But that's what I would do as opposed to having the rerouting or I always had a problem with the The holding the mail.

Have you ever had that? Did you ever do the hold of mail routine? No. Like when you're going to the post office and saying, hey, man, I'll just hold the mail for this particular address. Oh, and then you can go by and pick it up. And go by and pick it up. That was the diamond guy.

He would have stuff mailed to someplace. And then he'd call and say, hey, nobody's going to be there. And this is like UPS. He'd say nobody's going to, nobody's going to be at the office at that time. You know what? Can you just hold it? And I'll send somebody by to pick it up and they go, sure. And they just hold it.

He'd go by the transfer station and they'd give him the mail. And it'd be like in them, they don't know what's in the mail. Don't know. It's diamonds. Like it's like a bunch of diamonds and shit. But see, that's what I used to do. I used to order this stuff, even when you order the credit card, because you know, when you get, when you're dealing with bigger credit card companies, like your chases, your Amexes and stuff, and you're dealing with upper credit cards, right? You're going to get more of a package.

It's just not going to come in an envelope, right? They've got all this benefits. Yeah, they're going to make sure that they let you know about the perks or rewards because it's all about the packaging, right? And so when they would do that, send that stuff over to like, when they were sent it, they were sending it kind of like FedEx or whatever you do, I would tell them to say, hey, just hold it at the facility. I'll come pick it back later on. You said, well, why would you tell them to hold it at a facility you'll pick it up later on? It's because so they wouldn't go to the actual home address. Of course not.

But at the same time, it allows me to walk into a facility and pick it up. Those people there are not examining no IDs. As long as you got an ID that is and I used to love to use an ID out of that state. So it didn't matter if I was getting something in, say, getting something in Georgia, right? You don't know what Iowa look at address like. You don't know what an Iowa ID really looks like. You know what I mean? Well, I was saying, Boziac, Boziac used to, he would order credit card and he'd go sit in front of the guys.

He had a nice car. Like, he'd have like a Cadillac. And he'd just pull up and park close to or just in front of the house. And then did that a thousand. Really? Didn't have a thousand times. I would never do that. I would be fucking terrified to do that.

What? The guy's in, like, he's like, they're not home. They're at work. You don't know that. You don't know if the guy's wife. It don't matter. Matt, when they're pulling up, right? And somebody's telling you, they're saying that, hey, there's a $20,000 check that's coming there. We need you to sign it back and put it back in the mail and send it back to us.

Right. We got return armolope in there. Damn, and I'm sitting in from that damn house waiting on that $20,000 check. And when that FedEx me, because the people at the house don't know that they're expecting. Right. Well, I get carried away. Yeah. I'll hit that video where the guy heard of the shit that she goes, I need to calm down. well I was saying he was it and they'd pull up they'd get out and then he'd get out of his car and start walking towards the front door they go hey and he go oh oh oh and they go oh are you mr.

Yeah, yeah. And he said, nobody ever asked for ID. They just grab it and walk away. If worst thing is you go, yeah, yeah. And they go, okay, thank you. And then they walk away. And he said, I'd still walk right up to the fucking front door. He's like, I need this guy to leave.

I'd walk up the front door and I'd stand there and open it. He'd drive away, turn around, walk back to my car, get my car and drive away. Yep. Because most of the time, some people don't even, they don't see, the whole thing is when you're creating, when you're creating debt for somebody that don't even know that they got debt incoming, nothing is out of the ordinary for them. Nothing is out of the blue for them. They don't know that none of this stuff is happening, especially like when they, that's why, even when I tell people when they're trying to fix their credit and they're saying, hey, I got identity theft or something like that. I say, the very first damn thing you better check is that damn address because that's one of the first things that, that's one of the first things that you want to change is that address. Because now you can redirect mail, and that's why if I didn't change the address, it made it look like it was the actual real person.

Because, nah, that stuff came to your house. You know what I mean? You actually received that. We see that you received that. And there's nothing that they can, they're trying to. fight it or whatever like that, but that's one of the reason that you would do something like that, especially when you're trying to get directly to the money. So leading past that, when you're going into these banks and you're doing all of these things,

and I'm pretty much, plus those in this whole plan to take together a lot of this money from these banks, learning the business system. Because don't forget, Matt, every bank that I was going to, each of them was telling me what to do and what not to do in order to get approved for these loans, right? And so that's when, like you were saying before, I stated this whole checklist that I must have in order to walk like that. That's that 27-point checklist. I said, well, they want this, they don't want that, they want this, they want that.

So out of this 27, this particular bank wants 13 of these 27. This particular bank over here wants 16 of these 27, but five of them are different than these 13, and every bank got their own criteria about what they want and what they didn't want. And so that kept letting me, as you know, when you start hitting them, you start hitting these banks one after another. You're staying in these hotels, staking out banks. Staking out banks are not for the actual bank.

I'm staking out banks of the actual people that are working in the bank because I want to make sure that I'm going to a particular person when I'm going inside of a branch or something like that, right? If I find out that somebody is very active and very movement, I wouldn't want to go to them, right? For some odd reason, they would pose something to me because don't forget, I'm an identity thief, right? So when I'm going inside of somewhere, I am that actual person. When they're asking me all of this information, I got to look them dead in their face, recite this information to them before I sign my signature, before I can get any of these loans. This stuff has got to occur.

And as this happening, like, be going up to D.C. doing this stuff, I got a partner of mine. Now it moves on to loans and stuff and started doing dumber stuff. What is the dumber stuff? Started doing, like, going to get vehicles and things of that nature. My first thought was vehicles. Yeah, right? Because I'm in the world now. This is the world that we live in.

And one of the things is that you go up, you go grab a vehicle. Actually, you went and grab two and three cars in the same. day, right? One of the guys that he got jammed up from going to get a vehicle. And then once you say go a vehicle, you mean like go into the dealership? Going to dealership. Fill out the paperwork. They give you the keys.

They send you off on your way. Send you off on your way. Because now you got the actual vehicle. Now he goes in under the same ID and goes and go against the vehicle, which gets everything jammed up at this point. Because now when they're looking at the income, because don't forget, Even that if you don't get the actual, even if you don't get the actual debt, you actually see the inquiry. That inquiry shows up instantly. The inquiry shows up to date, right?

And they can see saying, hey, you went to culture Cadillac. You went to Brian Jones Chevrolet or GMC. But why are you over here today getting another car? What's going on? What's going on with this? which makes them take a deeper dive, which makes them do extra work, extracurricular on to this, right?

And then when they went and did extracurricular, they found out saying, hey, that first vehicle that they went and got earlier that day got jammed up. That first vehicle that they got earlier today was actually fraudulent in two. They just got away with it. Because, you know, how we know?

Because the guy that pulls into the dealership, he pulls into the dealership with the tags, with the new tags of the car from the old dealership. that he just got that day. And the inquiry is showing on the credit report so they know that this car was just bought today from one of their buddies, one city up the road, right? Because, you know, when you're in that market,

they know that whole market. They know... Yeah, they know all the stamps. They know what's going on. They know all the stamps. They see what's going on. What's he doing with the vehicle? He's just driving around?

He thinks this is my vehicle from now, or do you think you're going to try and sell it? That's always, but you know how people are. They try to get a vehicle. They say they're trying to sell it. Then they start driving around in the vehicle, right? And that's what usually kind of gets some jammed up. When they start trying to drive around in the vehicle, acting like it's their own vehicle,

when they're trying to find out when the whole thing is not to purchase a vehicle, but to purchase a vehicle for a buyer. Sometimes they would just purchase a random vehicle. And then they try to get the vehicle off, which doesn't make any sense. And you don't have a real driver's license. Like if you get pulled over in this vehicle with that, that ID might be okay for the finance guy or the bank. Exactly.

That cop's going to be like, I'll be right back. You're done. It's over. You might as well start making your phone calls now. Hey, baby, they're probably going to bring me to the Hillsborough County lockup. Call the bail bondsman. Put some money on my books. I'm going to be there a little bit.

I'm still out on probation for that other thing. I mean, you're done because he's going to cut. We got to, you about two minutes before the other police cars start showing up. No, and that's exactly how it happens, right? I have a question for you. Well, I had a question. I'm going to tell you. You remember Mighty Mouse?

Yeah, yeah. This is the cars. Yeah, yeah. You're like this. I'll go through it quick. Okay. So I met a guy when I was locked up in Atlanta in the, the, the, the, the U.S. Marshall's holdover.

His name was Mighty Mouse. Black guy, 5'3, I'm shorter than me. Bill, like, I mean, he had like a little, he looked like a little, he looked like a little. like Mighty Mouse. He had a tattoo of Mighty Mouse on his arm. So that's why I started coming. No, he looked in general. Everybody called a Mighty Mouse. You looked at him. He was like

freakish. He had such a tiny and he was tiny. Listen, super cool. I would love if anybody out there knows, he was in Atlanta. If anybody knows this guy, I would love to talk to this guy. You would be able to talk to this guy for

hours and you're going to love what he did. This is the only time I've ever thought that this was sharp, bro. This was sharp. He'd been locked up for fraud before. In the feds, he was on probation when I met him. Was you in Atlanta or was you in the holdover? No, no, I was in the U.S. I was in the ACDC.

Okay, got it. Yeah, yeah, got, yeah. But it's the U.S. Marshals, you know, they have like a floor. So I'm in there. He's in there. You're going to love this. So he's already on paper for fraud. He's already been to the feds.

Yeah. He's out on paper, gets jammed up on this scam. I'll explain why. Not as, well, it is his fault, but goes, so we're sitting there.

I had just been on like a, like, a, like, Dateline had just did a one hour special. So we're watching my date line special in the holdover. So everybody thinks I'm the coolest, right? And so I'm talking to him.

So he comes. He says, and I say, so what do you hear for? He's like, listen, he said, here's what I did.

He is, or I'm going to tell you what I did. Here, he was, do you remember that, the, the, the,

the, the, like, like, or pre-approval checks they used to mail out for your cars. He had a guy, he would get, he would get a fake ID in somebody's name. He doesn't have to have any, just a fake ID. It's bullshit fake ID. Yeah. He didn't have anything connected, no social security, nothing.

He doesn't know anything about it, just a fake ID could be made up. He goes into, but it looks like, looks good. So he goes in and says, hey, I want to, I want to rent this, or I want to drive this car We're talking about like $100,000 Mercedes. Now it's probably worth $200,000. So $200,000 on Mercedes, whatever. Goes, he said, you know, you're driving around real quick. You come back.

And the guy says, okay, what do you think? He's like, I like it. You argue a little bit. See if you can get some floor mats, whatever. You make it seem legit because if you don't argue a little bit and bicker a little bit, they think something's wrong. You can't just say, I'll take it. So he walks in.

He knows all the right things to say. They say, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's go talk to the finance guy. He said, I don't know, I'm already approved. he said, I got it, and he opens up the envelope. He was, he, he had made his own envelopes, his own checks, his own everything. He goes in the finance guy. He gives them the, the whole packet. The guy opens it up. He gets them all the time. You sure you don't want us to do the fight? No, no, I've already been, I'm already pre-approved, I already talked to them. Okay.

So he picks up the phone. This is how simple this worked. He picked up, the finance guy, picks up the phone, calls the phone number. on the phone number he's got Mighty Mouse his girlfriend sitting in his house his one and a half or two million dollar house and this was 20 years ago um in like buckhead or something yeah so she answers the phone and says you know well let's say Southern Exchange Bank how may help you and they're like or whatever she says she says exactly what they say whenever you call these things and they go okay yeah I've got so and so here I need to okay all right hold on yeah I need the What make and model of the vehicle?

Okay. What's the VIN number? Okay. And so she starts saying all the, asks all the questions. How much is the vehicle, everything included? He tells her. She says, okay. So she asks a series of questions.

Can you put my person on the phone? Yes. Last four digits of your Social Security. 4201, okay. Hang out the phone. Yes. No. Okay.

You're interest rate. No, no, I'm good with that. I'm good with that. Okay, yeah. No, that's fine. How much? Yeah, yeah, can you do 60 months? Can you do? Oh, yeah. Okay. Hey, all right, here. Hold on. Boom. Talk to the guy and says, give me a minute, puts him on hold, comes back a little bit and says, okay, here's your authorization code. Because of the little authorization code.

Gives the finance guy. He says, okay, well, what do I do at this point? She says, okay, one of two things. She said, he's approved. Here's your approval number. Your approval code, whatever, your authorization code. Okay. She said, you can either fill out the check in front of you and deposit it or. This check goes nowhere, by the way. It's a made-up, made-up check. They put the whole thing together. Right. She said, or I can mail you a check from the bank. It's totally up to you. And these guys would say, oh, I'll fill out the check.

I'll fill it out on a deposit. Okay, no problem. Hangs up the phone. The guy does all the paperwork, gives them all the paperwork, gives them all the keys, he gets in the vehicle, he leaves. Now, what he did was, here's the, what he would do is three states, way the exact same vehicle he would have somebody go on the lot and get the VIN number he would then they could actually lift the windshield and he said he said it was just like a they could

basically rub in he explained the VIN numbers were difficult you could put a piece of paper whatever over the VIN numbers so that this he's using the VIN number for this place over here oh and then he's getting the VIN number he's like we change the VIN numbers they'd make like a they take the the order sheet and everything and somehow or another they would go oh they would take the registration they would go into the DMV and register the vehicle they could change it and register the vehicle into anybody's name they want it yeah once it was registered they could then get a because it says it's registered to this bank which is for a car that is not the car they're looking for the car that did not the same car dealership yeah there's some car in

multiple states away, so it has no connection. And then he said, once it was registered, he said, I would then make a satisfaction for the loan that's on it. And you'd go into the DMB, and you could give it to them, and they would issue a title in whoever's name you want the title in, whoever you registered in. So now I own the vehicle free and clear as long as they never go to the same state. And he would take that vehicle, and he would go, he's an I'd sell it to a drug dealer for 50 cents on the dollar.

He's so I got a $100,000 vehicle, and I'd get 50 grand for it. And I'd go, dang, they just give you 50 grand. And he'd say, sometimes, most of the time they show up in the, and this is, you know, this is when you're just talking shit. He's like, they show up with like 25 grand. He said, man, I'm going to get you the other 25 years. No, no, argue he's, or they just try and steal the car from you. You see, he's had guns. Like, he'd been ripped off, had cars stolen from him.

He'd have, oh, yeah, you know, these guys. Oh, no, they ain't playing, man. Yeah. They don't want to give you 50 grand. I know it's a stolen car. I know that the deal. He's like, like, they're not really smart enough to figure out like they'd have to give me the money in order to get the title. But these guys aren't smart.

They're showing up with guns. Just taking the shit. So when, in fact, you could just give me the money and you've got a $100,000 vehicle. You could try to go around and sell it. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, amazing scam. He had it down. He was sharp as a fucking tact.

That's a lot. How do you think? Yeah, but think about what he's doing. He's getting 50, 80, $75,000. And he's doing these things. He's doing four or five of these a week. He'd been doing it for years. He's living in like a $2 million house.

He's driving a couple hundred thousand dollar like Mazzarotti. He's phenomenal. How do you think he gets caught? It's a flawless scam. Think about it. They don't even know. Somebody told him? He fucked some girl that his girlfriend knew and the girl told her

and the girlfriend and him get into an argument and she calls the FBI or his PO, I forget, because he's at a PO. He had a separate apartment. He rented. just for the PO. Calls, they show up. He's got six brand new vehicles at his house.

He's got like a four-car garage. They show up. Who are these? He's like, and I was like, holy shit. He's like, yeah, that was like four days ago, and now I'm here. Oh, my God. And I'm like, how much time you're going to do? He's like, what they really only know about these cars.

See, that's the whole thing. And they've taken those cars. They don't know about the other 60 cars he's done. You know, now he's like, now they did go through my house. They probably got some stuff. Did he get jammed the first time too for the same thing? No, no. First time was like credit card fraud.

Oh, okay. And he said, oh, I don't do credit card fraud anymore. This is what I'm doing now. His biggest problem with that whole scam, he wasn't scared because he knew it's so inside and out. He wasn't concerned, nothing. And he said, look at the dealership, they're not trying to, he's not trying to jam you up. If something's not right, they're like, yeah, you know what? We're going to make a call where this.

He's like, you haven't gotten anything. It's not until you get something that they really, you know, they're not trying. And all these dealerships are doing something. They're all making pay stubs. They're doing something. They're just, you know. They all got some bullshit with them. It doesn't matter what level either.

So he wasn't, that wasn't his concern. His concern was like the drug dealers. He's like, they're a problem. He's like they would show up with it. He's they're always trying to get over on you. Like if it's 50, show up with 50. They don't. They want to show up with 40 or 45 and they want to argue with you.

And I'm good for it. And I'm this and that. He's like, they're just. just a problem to deal with. That was as big as problem, but what great was, it was always cash. It's 50 grand in cash. You know how hard it is to get? I was going to ask you this. How are you getting, you're getting a check for 25 grand. Yeah. And you're getting a check here and a check here and you get 50,000. How are you getting the money out of these banks? Are you slowly just going and removing money? No, you can move. Once you get that money then at that point, it's just

walking in. And you're just telling them saying, hey, I, I need, that's that, I call it the call to order, right? So if anybody's ever gotten a lot of money from their bank, it's two things that you're going to know. One is that money could come in a sealed container, right, which means it comes in a brown box with the U.S. Treasury over the top of it, which means it takes it. That means you ordered the money to come to that particular bank. They can order money for you.

So you're telling them saying, hey, today is Tuesday saying, hey, Thursday, I'm going to come get 40 grand from you or such and such like that. And they have that money. And when you're dealing with that one particular banker, because don't forget, I have no fear because the person. that I'm dealing with at this bank, I'm already been dealing with them. And this person, and this person don't even to open up their account. That's if I'm trying to get a large sum of money. That's if I need a big sum of money. But most of the time, at that point, you just,

you just maneuvering the money through the system, right? This is before the cash app days and before this, what's this stuff now? What's this call? Sale, way before this stuff. You know what I mean? So you've got to really walk in, get the money out, or you can do wire transfers to another bank. I like a lot. I used to like a lot of them offsetting banks and wire money, too. Those banks that are, so Walmart has a bank. I forgot the name of it now. It's like a, it's like a, it's like a, it's like,

Western Union. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a bank, but it's a bank that is like an off-brand bank. It's, um, Wood Forest, the Wood Forest banks and stuff like that. Yeah, they're, they're lower, they're lower tier banks. Yeah. Right. which makes when I'm dealing with these type of banks,

these banks are being like Walmarts and things of that nature. They're used to dealing with cash. They used to dealing with cash makes it a lot easy. I used to go in and I would just get like $6,000, 7,000. But I've got 12 bank accounts. Yeah. So I'm getting $6,000, $5,000, $7,000. Because the only time I ever went in and asked for $29,000 one time to cash a $29,000 check,

they gave me such a fucking, I got the money. It just took forever. And I was sitting there and the guy took my ID for a hell of a lot longer than 180 seconds. And I'm sitting there the whole time. And my, my girlfriend's calling me saying, get out of the bank, get out of the bank. And I'm like, what am I going to do? He's got a $29,000 cashier's check and he's got my ID and he's got my credit card. Like, he's going to call the cops for sure.

Like, I'm not going, like, I can't leave. So finally, after he called the title company, he called the title company. called there, he actually called me as the person that wrote the check, a different person. So I had to answer the phone in the bank as someone else and verify that I wrote the check and hang up the phone. He comes out, yeah, he comes out with the chick that I think I talked to and he counts out the money and he gives me the money, $29,000 and I'm stuffing it in my pocket. Like I'm like, I'm like trying to get it.

And as I'm walking out, he said, I was Scott Cugno. He goes, he said, Mr. Cug, no. He said, I'd like to say something. I said, yeah, what's up? And he goes, I feel very apprehensive about this transaction. And I go, what is it exactly? And he goes, I can't put my finger on it. And I go, it'll come to you.

And I just turn around. I bolt out the fucking. Yeah. I got in the car and I drove off and I was just like, oh, my God. But it took, it took 30 minutes to get the, at least 30 minutes, but it felt like three hours. I know that feeling. When you're, when you're, anytime. that you're sitting somewhere and you're waiting for something,

that's why I told you. That 180, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,

anytime they took my ID and they left with my ID, budget. But you've got to be cool. Oh, no. You're the coolest, you're the coolest looking person around. But that thing is, it's,

is, it's hitting hard. This guy told the Secret Service, he wasn't nervous. He's like, he asked for a fucking Diet Coke. Like, he was,

he sat there. He's on the phone. He's making, called. They were like, he's like he didn't leave. Like typically when they leave, if it's fraud, the guy I'll try and bolt. Or the guy's like, can I get my stuff back? They panic, right? I just sat there the whole time. And the only reason I was even on the phone is because my girlfriend just kept calling. The chick I was dating. And she's like, what's going on now? She's panicking in the parking lot. And I'm thinking to myself, like, it's a mistake. I shouldn't have left the keys for her.

Yeah. She's going to leave any minute now. But he was like, I was totally cool. But I was totally cool. I wasn't. I was terrified. I mean, my heart was just like a jackrabbit. But, you know, I have that ability to be. Just that, that, that just. What's up? Boom. Well, we're going to talk to a manager somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get up. Let's escalate. I need the money. That's me all day. I'm sitting there doing. Yeah, I'm like, hold up. Yeah. Like, what's going on? Well, we're thinking about calling the police. Well, let's get them here if that's what we need to do so I can get my money. Yeah. What?

That's it. You know me? But yeah, you call it, called their bull. Because they do have all my shit. Like, I'm thinking to myself, they're either getting me here or they're getting me at the house. Like, if I can't, I need to get the money. I need you to believe this. So I can't bolt.

The guy, the fraudsters, you got to be like, oh, just give me my stuff. And he leaves. Now they're calling the police for sure. No, for sure. They're calling the police, you know. But there's been times that happened to me, though. Right. Like I was sharing with you earlier about some of those times, something happens and it's just not right.

And this is like, because me on one hand, as I'm looking at it, I'm in the, I'm interstate, maybe I'm in Kentucky, right? Maybe I'm in Lexington, Kentucky, right? And I'm there. And, but when this stuff is happening, I got to go. But I'm not really caring. I'm not from the area, right? For one, although it's my face on the ID, it is my face on the ID. Yeah.

But that name, that other stuff is no identifying factor to me unless something else happens and they can add a one plus one to that and move forward from that way. But if this doesn't have my stuff on it, you know, what I'm always talking about too is, this is 15 years ago. You know what I mean? Yeah. So there's no CSI. They're not scanning the ID.

It's just some person who looked at the ID. And they got a, they got some still shot photos of you from 35 feet away on a black and white camera. Yeah. A grainy, a shitty, what is it? 320 p. What is it? Probably like 320 or 480 are the two low. Yeah, 320 or 4.

Like that thing's so grainy. They're not going to get you from that. No, not at all. So, but now, I don't know about now. Yeah. I don't feel good. I don't feel good now. Now is 6K and they can tell if you had a pimple.

You know what scares me now? What scares me now is it's not the people. It's the fact that cell phones are on everything and people always are filming, right? And so when you start to see stuff like that, it's like you don't even have to worry about a ring camera or a camera here in the bank or anything of that nature. You got to worry about Susie who's Miss Susie who's just filming. You know what I mean? It's taking all the fun out of fraud. Really?

to be honest. It really has. You know what I said about fraud? When it was retired from fraud, when the dope boys came over to the fraud game. When the dope boys came over to the fraud game, I'm like, man, hey, listen, stay over there with you, stay over there with your dope, man.

Keep over there with the dope. Man, we're over here with fraud. Stay up. We over here with fraud. And when they came, when they switched the lanes, it's like, oh. You remember the drop, the tax fraud? Yeah. I remember I met a guy in prison and what was it?

I said something. I don't know what we were doing. We're talking to something. He was talking to me or something. You know, we're in line for fucking the chow line. I'm sitting there. Yeah. He says something.

And I don't know. I've talked to him once. I felt comfortable enough to ask, right? I said, I goes, what are you in here for? I said, was it like drugs or something? And he goes, drugs. This is a black guy, right? Yeah.

Street guy. Clearly a street guy. He doesn't speak well. He's like, he's a street guy. He's got some tats on his neck. He's, I get to. And I'm like, what was it? I said drugs.

What? And he goes, drugs. He goes, this cocks, nobody's doing drugs. There's nobody selling fucking drugs anymore. And I went, what? He said, I'm here for the drop tax fraud. And I was like, fuck. He's like, yeah, 6.2 million.

I was like, fuck you stole 6.2 million? He's like, fuck, yeah. I was like, damn. Yeah. And you just looked at them and you thought, there's no fucking way. There's no way. But everybody was doing it. Yeah, they was killing that one.

You know what I mean? Do you remember the tax queen? I know I'm talking too much. Do you remember the tax queen? The one that did all the taxes and stuff? I think you had on the show. Yeah, I was going to say, I had her on the show. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, just thought I'd tell you that. Yeah, yeah, which is dope. You know what I mean? And like, even you know about, like, in prison, I used to always tell people that had never been to prison, I say the track was everything for us. Like, when you go walk that track, And I could be talking, me and you're in the same line of work field or whatever,

and me and you be talking on the track, talking about certain stuff. And I said, soon somebody comes up, right, and they're walking with us on the track, and they say, oh, what's a trade line? We'd be like, oh, shit, man, I'll catch y'all later, man, because you wouldn't want to talk to somebody who doesn't even know nothing about your field. You know what I mean? And that's what a lot of times... There's a whole education process.

Oh, for sure. We got to talk for about seven or eight hours before we can even really have a conversation. Oh, for sure. You know what I mean? Because when you get on that, the track for me in prison was like everything to me. You get on that track and you just get to walking around that track. And that's where I'm used to meet a lot of people from different units and stuff from is on that track. Oh, what's such and such?

You can connect with him and just hearing about certain stuff about, okay, this is how this stuff was ran. Because the track was everything. You know what I mean? and just hearing that out. Or was it, they'd be telling you something about their fraud and you'd go. Holy shit. Yeah.

Like I remember my buddy Zach, his biggest problem was getting an account with money in it. Getting the money out of the account wasn't difficult for him, right? Like he had a bunch of ways you buy this, you sell this, you do this, you buy this. He could easily drain the account. very quickly. For me, it was getting the money out of the account. I can get you a million dollars in the account. The problem is to get a million dollars out of the account, I need to go ahead and get six or eight different accounts, and then I need to start pulling that money out of those

accounts slowly, and then I have to vary the balances, so I have to send cashier's checks back and forth, or wires back and forth. Like, this is going to take me a month to pull this money out. Yeah. But for him, so we had the opposite problems. I can easily get you a million dollars in the account. I just have a hard time getting the cash out. He can, he has a hard time finding an account with a million dollars. He can easily get the money out. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, for sure. Like you're saying the whole, the whole thing with the, um, uh, just ordering, ordering like a cash drop or whatever, like I've never heard of that. Yeah. What I heard was when I first went to go cash that check for the 29,000 or a check. It wasn't even that. It was that a check.

The person said, I said, hey, I said, can I cash? Like, can I cash? Like, can I cash? check like this? And they went, not here. They said, you can go to a cash, a cash bank or whatever they called it. And I went, what's that? She said, well, there's one on peach tree. She said, those are banks, those are the banks that typically, she said, you have to order the funds. You just, no, she didn't even say order the funds. She said, you typically can go in there and they'll cash that check. We don't have that kind of money. She said, you'd have to tell us first, you're coming to get the check and give us a couple days to make sure we have the money here. She said, but you could take that check and just go over there and cash it.

Yeah, so that's what I did. Those cash places that do that type of stuff, right? That's when you end up going in the back. I used to do a lot of those. You remember, what was they called? There was, damn, it was the auto loan joint that I was doing, the auto loan, the conversion loans. Remember those conversion loans where you can actually purchase a vehicle? And then what happens is your purchase a vehicle, right?

and the bank would actually give you the money for that, the bank would actually give you the money for that vehicle. But the thing about it was, you never actually purchased the vehicle, right? And so then they flipped that loan and called it a personal, they called it a personal loan. So don't forget, when you got an automobile loan, that automobile loan is a secure loan

because it's secured by the actual asset, which is the vehicle. Right. So that loan would probably be anywhere about 7.9 to 9.9%, right? Right. Personal loan is a lot higher. A personal loan. When they flipped it over to the personal loan, now they changed that interest rate to 17.9 to 20.9. Right.

Right. But that's at that time. Well, that was back then they was doing that and getting that stuff done. But when you got the check, the check was between you and the actual auto lender or whoever you got the car from. And right now you got to cash that check. So you would take that check to one of those cash advance type places, kind of like places that you're talking about, Jefferson Cajel. place or whatever like that. They're usually all in the hood,

street corner places. And when you go in there, they usually talk to you at the window, show all sorts of ID, then you and both parties, bulletproof glass, walk in the back and they give you the money that way. But the thing about it is,

their percentage would, if that loan happened to be a $30,000-dollar loan, you'd be lucky to walk out of there with $23,000, much money they're going to. It felt like there was another partner the deal the way they was, you know, this is $4.99 for processing fee and $2.99 for a setup fee. What is all this for? Like, why are you adding all these fees onto these loans? And that's what you know. We're going to need a photograph of you. We're going to need you to do this swat, an internal

swab on your cheek and we're going to use your finger for. You're like, fuck, I'm being processed. For sure, with all this stuff. So, so once you said you started doing the car loans, the auto loans, Yeah. What happened? Like, what was the progression from what happened from there? Well, just kind of, that was just, it's more, it's more like when you're in, when you're in fraud, right? There are so many different angles that come into fraud. And then when you're also in the fraud, there's so many different players that you bump into in fraud, right?

Especially like when I'm saying, how do I bump into these players? I bump into these players when I'm trying to go get a W-2, like I was talking about. or I'm trying to get somebody to do some illegitimate, what you call them, tax forms or something like that. That right now, that creates an area where other people, where other fraudsters live at. Hey, did you know about this? I'm looking for somebody that can do this. So I'm looking for somebody that can do that. And then you start connecting with them on different activities that they got going on as well.

Right. And so that's what I'm talking about, that conglomerate of, of you joining forces doing all different types of other types of fraud. And an auto at that time was just happened to be another, just happened to be an extension of what was going on. The bread and butter of everything was actually going to the bank, going to get these loans. Because like you had before, we was just talking, there no fear factor sitting. I don't give it a damn what nobody tell me. The hardest shit in the world is sitting in front of somebody else in front of, as a, as a, as a, as a, another person in another person name.

And that shit's hard. Right. And then you got to still be cool, calm, and collective making sure that the whole process lines itself, right? And as you go back, you start to say, hey, now this bank is for that,

this bank is for that person. This bank is for, this bank is for this one. This is a nation. I take you back to, what the hell is? It's all of these different types of banks that you just got to figure out

which way I'm going to go to it and what I'm going to get from it. You know what I'm saying? Right. So how long does this go on until you get grabbed? Oh, this is, this is interesting here. So this is going on. After that automobile stoke, that's why that pretty much kind of was the more of the turning curve to how things went south.

Because as you know, once something goes left under that demeanor, right, people are trying to get. out of their situation, which creates other situations, right? And they got jammed up on the, on the automobile snug. And they say, I know something. I know something, right? And, but I don't know none of this is going on. And I'm still talking to the other party, right? Of course.

I'm still talking. I don't know. It's part of it. Yeah, I don't know. You know what's going on. You're no good to this guy. Yeah. So.

You're going to stop answering the phone. You're going to go, what? Fake idea. What? I would never. What are you talking about? Yeah. And what's crazy is, is that when all this stuff is going down, it's like everything is, is, it's coming in.

But now, Matt, where I'm moving, I'm moving still the way that I'm moving. And I'm all in different fields, right? I'm all in still, I'm still in different fields and doing different stuff, still trying to make things, make other things happen. Such as, hey, being able to incorporate other people into what I got. going on, right? Hey, I need you to do such and such. I need you to do such and such. But then when I went to Cleveland, no, I was in, I was in Phoenix, right? Never forget this day, ever. It's just like a wild day. I'm in Phoenix, right? And I got to, I got to, as they say, I got a big score, right? I got a big score, right? I said, I got to go do this, I got to do this thing.

but I need to bring somebody else in on it to kind of help me about. I call my partner. I call my partner up. I say, hey, it's in the middle of night. It's like, it might be like 11 o'clock. No, it might be like 10 o'clock at night, Phoenix time. But I know it was 1 o'clock East Coast time, right? So it's like 1 a.m. East Coast 10.

And I call my partner up. I say, yo, I need to get what you do X, Y, and Z. he hits me back and says he says I said man it's late I ain't mean to wake you he said it ain't too late he said I'm in Vegas I said oh you in Vegas? I said yeah he said I need you to get to

I need you we need to connect in Phoenix and I tell him I say hey I got the big score this is this is the one that's going to take us out the game just that and the third the retirement party you know you know I've always got that that end right I call him up.

He said, I'm coming. The next day he did come. He came. Him, his girl, his baby, they came. We mapped out everything exactly what I'm about to do, about to hit these banks the way that I got to hit them, because there's three banks that I got to hit connections, right? I got an inside plug that's in New York City, right?

The inside plug in New York City, which means inside plug means we got an actual banker that is in the, we got an actual banker that is there. Right. Right. And this banker is basically going to prove everything that we got. As long as I got the profiles, they are proving the loans and everything is good. No problem.

That night, right, that next day he's there. We're talking. We're getting ready to fly out the next morning, right? Stay with me that night. I call my brother, the same one that you see right now. Right. I call him, right? And I told him, right?

I told, bro, I say, hey, I think I'm about to do this one. It's X, Y, and Z. he said, something about this trip don't feel right. I got off the phone with him and said, he's hating as, he's hating like here.

Right? He's hating, you know what I'm saying? So, anyway, I take the trip. We get to Columbus. I'm going to tell you where the city was. I get to Columbus. But when I get to Columbus, I, this is,

the computers are changed now. I'm missing my hard drive. I got to get my hard drive to get to New York because I got a bunch of files on here, they're telling me that if I got these files, everything is great. I got my files in Phoenix. I got to fly back to Phoenix.

There is no more flights out of Columbus for that night. When there's no more flights out of Columbus for that night, I look up and there happened to be a flight that is leaving out going back to Phoenix, but is flying out of Cleveland. That flight leaves at 1159 that night, right? I remember like it was yesterday. It leaves at 11.59 p.m. that night. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be.

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I'm in Columbus and it's like 7.30, 8 o'clock at night. No more flights going to Phoenix. I said, damn, this trip to go to Cleveland is two hours away. I got to get this, I catch this flight. I incorporate somebody else with me to take

this trip down to Cleveland. When I take that trip down to Cleveland, I get, we get, we get pulled over, got all that kind of stuff that's going on, airport stuff, all that stuff that's going on. When they got me, right,

I got a bunch. Get pulled over for what? No, I mean, the airport. I mean, I get, we're getting pulled over first. Now I'm going to the airport. We got pulled over. For now, just a random pullover, speeding or something like that, right?

Something didn't feel right then, but I continue to go to this airport. I got to this airport. When I get to the airport, I'm going through the airport. When I'm going through the airport, I go look at my ID. I put my stuff in the system. My name doesn't come up. I mean, my name doesn't come up because I fly under a certain name.

Okay. Right? I'm like, I call my people that book my ticket. I say, hey, my name ain't pulling up. They said, we booked it under your real name. Right? I said, you booked it on a flame? Yeah, booked it.

Cool. I'm like, I go to the counter. When I go to this counter mat, the lady says, hold on or something. It comes back. She said, go ahead and go. I noticed something was right because you could kind of feel how the shift is going. This time they alerting officials that, you know, the airport security and stuff like that. They got this thing.

It's called a do not fly list. Yeah. Right? But I'm not underwear that. They still let me go. When I go through that little TSA thing, they ask me to step to the right. When I step to the right, they put me into that room. When they put me into the room, don't forget I got somebody with me.

I got a companion with me. They put me into that room. I'm like, what they got me in here for? Three minutes go by, five minutes go by, ten minutes go by, I'm in this room. Then they bring somebody else into the room, my companion. She's sitting in the room. I'm like, what is you just seeing here for? Like, I'm just trying to get patted down and go.

She was like, I don't know. The next time that door wrong was that we got a warrant from you from the United States of America. You know what I mean? And I'm like, this is it. They have already completed their task. They just couldn't serve me because on my address, on everything I got, it says, you can look this up, Matt. This is crazy. My address has always says 151 North 6th Street, Columbus, Ohio.

Now, what is 1-5-1-6 Street? You know what that is? No. That's a shelter. That's a shelter. Oh. Is that the federal building? No, that's a shelter.

Okay. So that's where they came in. That's, they could never serve me because they're going there and there's no, there's no servant, no movement. Okay. So they had to put me on that list. And so that's pretty much how it comes down. As you know how when you get locked up, you got to go through that whole fight and the

thing. When I got locked up, I got locked up, but probably, I don't know. They asked a girl about me. They was like, you know who you with? And she said, I thought I did, but I don't. don't know who he is. I don't know where he is now. And then they start reading that stuff off.

You know that stuff. AKA Mr. Such and Such, A.K.A. Mr. Such and Such. A.K.A. Mr. Such and such. Did she know you under your real name? Yeah. She kind of knew me a little bit. I'm not going to say she knew me under my real name.

But she didn't know my whole name. Oh, okay. I just know like my first name. So, but when they started reading out the A.k.A. A.k.A. She said, I got to go. She said, I thought I knew him. But I don't know who I'm dealing with.

Should you say I'm going to be there for you? I'm going to come visit you. And I ain't talked to. I'm going to put money on your books. I need this to be on recording. I ain't talked to that bitch since. You know how that stuff goes at that point. Would they bring you straight to the federal building or not?

No. So the first thing that they did is it was at night. They took me down to a holdover, which is, I think the name of Cleveland, I'm going to say it wrong, but it's Cowahoggy County. That's the name of the jail in Cleveland, Ohio. They took me there. The next morning, that's when they came. Actually, when the next morning, it's like the next afternoon that day.

Is this marshals or like IRS? No, this is, when I got locked up, I got locked up with, I got locked up with Secret Service. Okay. I got locked up with FBI, and I got locked up with the one that I didn't even know about until then. It was called U.S. Postal Police. Yeah, yeah. There's just like the FBI. They got guns and everything.

Yeah, but I didn't even know. I didn't even know the postal had the police. Yeah. You know what I mean? They put me in the back of that, that Yukon or whatever was the thing, the Yukon or the SUV. Yeah, yeah. One of them big SUVs. Big black SUV.

Yeah. And then they bring you down and they put your handcuffs. Put your handcuffs. They run you through the whole system and they do the cheek swab and they scan your hand. Yeah. And then from that point, then they took me from there. Ended up going to, because my case is out of, my case is out of D.C. Oh, so you had to be transferred from all the way?

Did you drive or fly? They fly you? They fly me. They flew me from Cleveland to D.C. And then we was, but I didn't fly with them. I flew with U.S. Marshals. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, of course.

Yeah. Yeah, they didn't fly with them. They flew with U.S. Marshals. And that's when I remember, it hit me. When I was in the SUV with that lady, she was just like, why didn't you just do this stuff yourself? Why didn't you just do your stuff yourself? And I'm like, and I'm like.

What, just, what, scheduled your own tickets? No, she was like, Like, why didn't I just do my crime myself? Oh, yeah, why involve so many people? Yeah, why did I, in a nutshell, is instead of me still in identities, right? And I always got to make sure I own up to it. And I never met at no point in time to, I'm not one of those people that come on places and try to like almost like a glorify crime.

You know how you kiss people sometimes they do that? Like, like, I'm the baddest motherfucker around. You can't beat my crime. My crime. That shit's weak to me. You know what I mean? I just try to make sure that I said on every platform, then I'm all regretful for anything that I did on that level.

That's why I'm pretty much trying to change my life. You know what I mean? And you learn that stuff. What is she saying? Why didn't you do it yourself? She's just saying like why not other? She's saying when I was getting these loans out and these other people and creating these other businesses,

why didn't I just do it on myself as a part of the self? I thought you meant just do it yourself like by you. yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, you meant on on your own. Okay. Yeah. Um, so how much time were you looking at what was the dollar amount that they, they attached to you? Debt three point something million. Okay. Um, and then what was it? Was it just, uh, was it like bank fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud, wire, line, all of it, right? I'm going to give you the charges. The slew. Bank fraud, wire fraud, money laundering, identity theft. Was it accurate? Was it Aggravated identity?

I didn't eat that. Two extra years. Yeah, you know how I go. Trying to get something to run consecutive and concurrent, but I mean it don't work. You know what I mean? Were you already, did you already have priors? Like, were you in category one?

No, I wouldn't in category one. I forgot what I was in. I might have been in category two or three down to like, don't quote me on that scale, but it might have been like a 26, 27 and stuff like that. And then you, they was, it was a whole lot. Like, my case was, one is I didn't get out of prison. I didn't get out, I know I didn't get a bond.

Yeah, yeah. Right, and I tried to get a bond. You have aggravated idea. You have, I didn't get. You got to keep reminding me, man. Yeah, I mean. You got to get, that's the whole thing. When I went to that court, you know, that first appearance when you go try to get that bond.

and when that prosecutor coming in and saying, you know, this guy got caught with on him at the time of the arrest with a certain amount of IDs. And then this guy has the capability of being anybody he won't. They tell the judge he leaves who we're never seeing him again, a.k.a. John, say, aka Billy, so-and-so, aka, there's 14 of them. Like, we're never seeing this guy again.

You're right. If you let him leave, your honor there. Which is probably not true. you know, you might come back. I'm glad you believe in me, man. I mean, you might, once I get some, put some money aside, make sure somebody's going to put money on my books, make sure I got some money left over,

make sure sell off all my shit. Like, I'll probably come back. If it's not to, if it's only a few years, I mean, if they're saying it's 15 years, like, no, you're going to have to come get me. Like how, and you, but you're 24, category three. No, it's like 20, it's like. eight

eight years no I got five I ended up doing like 63 months they gave me 63 months I would have lost that one yeah I'm thinking about that

we have a guessing game we have a podcast where we guess how much time somebody somebody gets so I talk to you off camera about that

I want to follow him about the other one yeah we have an FBI agent he comes and he gives me a scenario and then when he tells me the whole scenario then he says

how much time does this guy get and I'm like fuck you know, sophisticated means. Yeah, you start going through the whole thing and it's like, and then I have to be within 20%. Yeah, we got to change that. That's a bullshit, 20%. That gave me that two-point.

You know the only thing I was mad about, just to be honest, I was mad about, I was mad about that two-point enhancement that gave me about a mastermind. What was that shit the fuck? What was that call them? It was a two-point enhancement on a mastermind crime or something? Is it sophisticated crime?

Sophisticated means? Yeah. It is sophisticated means. What else was that? would be sophisticated means, if not aggravated identity theft, bank fraud. What, you know, were the only other sophisticated means crime that I can, and they hit it with a lot, people that don't deserve it, but this crime definitely deserves it. Because the only thing other, I could think of like stock fraud, like what other sophisticated

means are there other than being able to convince a bank to give money to someone that is not that person? This is extremely, it's extremely sophisticated to be able to walk into a bank and have a bunch of fake documents and have them hand you a check for $250,000. Man, you've got me said. And thank you. And they thank you for ripping them off. Man, you, you made me feel listed.

That's just, that's, you know. What else? Changing jurisdiction to evade detection. Did you get that? No. No. Oh, that's ridiculous. You should have got that.

I didn't give any of that. Hey, man. I've gotten you to eight years. Come on. You obviously changed. You're flying in. You're doing stuff here and here. It's changing jurisdiction.

I got changing jurisdiction. Sophisticated means, you know, more than, well, it depends. I don't know how many victims they actually caught, you know? Like, they may have only, that's the great thing about these crimes. If you're smart, you break them down and you change all over the place. By the time they catch you, they're like, oh, we got you on these 12. You're like, 12? Yeah.

Thank God. No, twice. You, it's tough. 12, yeah. knowing the damn well Oh, of course, it's like 70. Like, fuck. You got me on 12.

You got me. So. Sure. And then, of course, they added up and they're like, okay, 3.7 million. You're like, three point, okay, you got me. 3.7. And that was one of the reason I wanted to talk when we were talking was because I said, he's been down that road before.

He knows about this. Sometimes you're talking to somebody. You got to explain every damn detail, every, every, every. When you said, when you said like a, like that to income race, DTI, you know, like, I'm, you're saying debt to income, I'm thinking DTI. Yeah. You know, you're saying, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm thinking of the anachronyms for these things, you know, because I, I know I'm so inside and out.

But I spend a lot of times teaching. So now, since I spent a lot of times teaching, and even in prison when I was talking to our friend Bubba earlier, one of the things is he was telling me, he was like, you know, Matt was teaching inside too. And I was like, oh, because I was teaching credit classes. No, I was teaching real estate. No, you was teaching a real, you was teaching a real. I give a very basic understanding of credit. Like, I don't go into, I don't talk about the, I talk about just the bureaus and how to build, I'd go from nothing. Like these guys are walking out.

Yeah. They've been locked up nine years. You got no credit, which is like a great position to be in. You go, I tell them, here's what you do. Get three secure credit cards, make the payments, keep them below 30 percent. You know, in six months you'll get credit scores. You know, I explain the whole system at this point. go get a couple personal loans.

You know, you explain it to them, but very basic. I don't ever talk about removing stuff off of people's credit because it's, it's difficult. It's a lot of writing letters. It's a lot of, you know, waiting. People don't have, they don't have patience. You need someone to do it for you because these guys, they sent a letter off in like three days later or two weeks later. They're like, well, what's going on? Why is it still on?

It's going to take months. It may take months. It took a few years to put it on there, but you want us to get it off. Right now. And months right now. It doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah. I paid $400.

Like, can I told you take six to nine months. That's if they don't buck. You know? But, so what happens? So you go to prison. Where's you go to your time? Well, actually, you know, first off, I did my time in Forest. I did most of my time down in Forest City down in Arkansas.

Okay. Forest City was cool. No, no, no, no. No. I did a low. Did a medium first, Maryland. Dentalow. You know, you got to wait for your points to drop and all that kind of stuff.

Had prison was one hell of a journey. I could just tell you that, you know, from the time that you walk in to the time that you get out every day, grateful for a lot of people that I met in the joint. But like I said, when I got out, that was one of the main things, is making sure that I began to teach. in the joint. And it started off, it started off with me just talking on the yard, talking loud, right? And we're having a conversation. And we're talking about something. And as you know, them nosy people, right? Because they're there, one to stand around, another one standing around. The next thing you know, you got a crowd of people and you're just talking to them about it. And then to a point that where they petition you to get a class. So you can kind of teach the class inside the joint. Talk to class inside the joint. Ace courses. Yeah, right? And you're teaching inside and it gets to that point that where you're starting to see that they take an action. Like he was saying, the letters, they're doing this stuff.

They got them a time inside the joint. So they could do the letters. I'm teaching them about that because I only dealt with people that had a means of getting money on the outside. So as you know, there's certain crimes like chomos or. beating on elderly or something like that. We didn't cut cloth with them at all under no circumstance. But somebody that was actually there for money, whether they were there for drugs, robbing,

it didn't matter, none of that stuff. To me, it was just about teaching them the system so I can help them when they got out so they can do something with it, right? So they can say, you know what? Maybe I can go start that business. So maybe I can go do such and such. Just giving them that hope that is there for them

and showing them kind of the way from that angle. You're selling any certificates? You're funny. Did he do time? Did he do? No. I sold a certificate. You're talking about changing people's lives.

Selling certificates, guys. Listen, I was at the medium for three years? So it was at the medium. I liked the medium because nobody would tell on you at the medium. And in the low, you couldn't do this. They'd tell on you immediately. And the medium, 40 guys would show up at the real estate class. And I go, listen, man, who wants to?

to be here. You have to first class I realized very quickly. You guys don't want to be here. You're trying to get your points low enough so you can go to a low. No, yeah. Or get just trying to get these certificates so they can get up out of there. You get transferred or get some more halfway house. Like I, like, who really wants to be here? And they sit there and they, you know, I mean, if you don't want to be here, raise your hand if you don't want to be here. And I'd be like, listen, bro, listen, let me explain something. If you don't want to be here, you just want a certificate, right? But you're going to be talking and disruptive. Like, if you just want a certificate, you don't have to stay. You give me two coffees and like, and two creamers.

Oh, you were killing them. You was killing them. That was cheap. Yeah, you was. That's like $10. That's nothing. But then I thought she was about to come back with. I need two books, two flat books. No, no. Sometimes I do like two coffees and a cream or whatever. Like, like, I wouldn't charge much at the medium because so many people didn't want to be there. Like they're like, they're like, I'm just biding my time so I can get out and sell drugs again. Like they don't care. They're not even pretending to think that they're going to change their lives. So literally you'd have 10, 15 guys. Like, first, it was always the first day, they don't believe you.

You know, by the second day or later on, later on, later than the next day, they walk up a cox. You know, like, yeah, what was you saying about the thing? Because, man, I'm just trying to get my point. They're going to pull you off to the side. Yeah, yeah. They're going to pull you off to the side. No problem, bro. Just bring me two coffees and a creamer or I think I charge more at the low.

But like two coffees and creamer, give me your name and everything. I'll do, I'll mark you in every day. I'll do your test. You won't even know it. You can come by the last day if you want to get the certificate, but don't even worry about it. It'll be in the computer. And they go, okay, cool, man.

They come back within a week. They go to commissary, give me this shit. I'd write them down. I had a little list. And I just do their information. I do the whole sign of them in, everything. And then listen, I never bought coffee or creamer. I had so much coffee and creamer.

And then when I went to the low. You was like me with peanut butter. You said, that's all I used to eat. Yeah. I said, man, bring me jams of peanut butter, flat books. But they're not paying, but I was going to say, they're not paying you. They're not paying you to do these classes. It's really just passing the time.

And two, I don't want you guys here. You don't want to be here. You're disruptive. You're just, you know, I don't need you here. So, and honestly, my classes, by the time I taught it a few months, there were so many, there were people standing up in the classes. So it's like, okay, I got like six or seven extra guys who want to stand in the back of the class.

you guys don't want to be like just leave leave i'll get you your shit you don't need to show up here for sure so and then these guys can sit down so it's the class still looked full so they have no idea not that the staff's paying attention because they're clueless um then in the low i did that in the low once or twice i got called out i got called in by the guy running the place he sat me down he's like listen are you selling certificates i was like what i would never are you how would that even work i don't You mean like for money? I don't. And he was like, all right, listen, Cox.

Come on now. Just like, not saying this not happening, but don't be fucking announcing. I would never, okay, you would never. My mistake, in general, don't make an announcement. So that I, you know, people figure it out. And then, yeah, but I taught the real estate class. I like teaching them real estate. You know, it was great.

And everybody gets to know you and you know everybody. And then you're the main guy. On the compound, everybody knows you, man. Yeah, it's cool. Everybody knows you. I taught GED, too. I taught GED. That was cool.

But you was the dog then. If you talked GED, you was a man. Yeah. Everybody knew the GED, man. Everybody liked me. Oh, no, there were several of us. There was almost 2,000 people in the low. There's like 1,600 in the medium,

but it's like 1,800 to 2,000 people in the low at Coleman. So you went to the medium and the low there? Yeah. I was at the medium for three years and then I went to the low. Did you ever go to the camp? No, never went to the camp. It's not that I didn't have the points. Like, I know you look at me and you look at me and you,

think tough guy. I was like, you think tough guy. Is that what your thing? Yeah. You think, yeah, Cox is lucky. His points were low enough to go to the camp. I can tell he's got, he was stabbing, people's working. She's shit down now.

But, yeah, I didn't go to the camp because at that time, the Coleman's camp, because Coleman has two pins, a medium, a low, and a camp. Everything's male. I didn't know Coleman had two pins. Two pins, pin one and two men, two. So one's a dropout. I mean, I don't think they don't like you to say that. But one's a dropout.

pin, right? Like if you try to drop out of the gang or whatever, you've got maybe. Oh, so soft. I mean, not soft, but. I don't know about soft, but not. They're not as serious as they, like, these guys, maybe, maybe, it could, it could just be like, you just checked in, like you. Yeah, I could check you. Because everybody that I've talked to has been to the second one. They're like, oh, they're still fucking, like, they're still checking paperwork. They're still trying to be hard. It's like, bro, come on, man, you dropped out of the, out of a gang or you ran up a debt or you, what, like, you're here. Yeah. So, but they're still trying to do it. You know, they're all pretending.

So there's two pins, a medium, and a low. And the camp was a woman's camp at the time. So I can't go to the camp. It's not a camp. It's a male camp now. Yeah. After COVID, they made it male. But so the closest camp I could go to was in Miami.

And my mom. They said, that one was sweet, too. Yeah. But my mom was an hour away from where I was. So if I went to the Miami camp, it's four hours away. And she was in a wheelchair. This is before she passed away. So I'll never see her again.

Yeah. And I was seeing her every two weeks. And, you know, she's hanging on for me to get out. So, so I just, what I did was I kept going. What condoluses to you too, huh? Or condoluses to you. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was a good situation when she passed away. So as good as it could have been, you know, for the situation. So, so I would check into, art app. And so I stayed in the art app unit. And then for like seven months when I, when I, so they,

you know, after about seven months, I drop out. So it keeps the management variable on you. And then three months later when they were going to pull the management variable and ship me again, I jumped back into art app. Oh,

okay. Gotcha. Right. The art app kept you there. The last few years. When I got so, when my points got so low that they were like, we have to move you.

Like we have to. I'm like, no, no, no. you know, because I'm trying to stay in the low. So yeah, that's, so I kept jumping in. Literally, that's like almost two years that kept me and jumping in and out and out. Yeah, it was great.

Ardette was great if you didn't, if you weren't, if you were just in there to keep a management variable on you, it was great because you didn't have to really participate. You could be a maniac, you know, because you don't really care. I'm trying to get the fucking out. I used to see Ardette, man. Ardette was underneath us, man.

I used to see them. Like, man, geez, they got it. It's horrible. It had to be. Not for me, but for the other guys, it was very stressful. They're trying to get a year off. They're trying to get halfway house. They're terrified.

They're scared all the time. But I wasn't scared all the time. I don't want the fucking year. I want as much halfway house as I could get because I had no money. So I want to get. You know, these guys are getting the halfway house. Like, I'm trying to go home. I'm trying to get an ankle monitor.

I want an ankle monitor. I want an ankle monitor. I want to stay here. I can save money here. I got, like, I got nowhere to go. I want to stay in there in the halfway house. I was pissed that I only got. I was being told I had a year, halfway house.

And I never got the year. I got, they, I had like nine or ten months, and then at the last minute, they pulled it because they were full. And it was in the middle of the second chance or first step act. And so it just fucked up the halfway house for them.

So what did you get? You end up getting nine months? Seven and a half months? Seven and a half months? Yeah. I stayed in every single day. You stayed in there for the seven and a half months? Absolutely.

Absolutely. This is because, you know, they don't charge. Like, now they don't charge you to stay. Well, they did then. They took 20% of my pay. But, and everybody hated that. But here's the problem. Where was I going to go that I could live for 25% of my pay? They fed me three times a day.

I had a bed. I worked 70 hours a week. I was never there. You know, I left in the morning. I got back at like eight or nine o'clock at night. I stayed at a gym. I worked at a gym six days. a week. I spent Sunday there

just doing bullshit. Laundry. So you was gone for most of the day anyway. So I'm most of the day. And the guy the gym I worked at, a friend of mine owned the gym. So he's running an interference. So if I have to leave for three hours. Oh, he got you. He's got me. Yeah, yeah. You got something good.

And after a month or two and the halfway, they know, this guy's no fucking problem. Like, you know, you know, you know instantly. Yeah. You know what I mean? When you go to a halfway house, you'll see what's going on. Yeah, you know the trouble. Oh, for sure. trying to meet their girl in the parking lot next door with an ankle monitor on it's like what are you doing bro you told these p you think they're not checking your ankle monitor you think you didn't go to you didn't go to Walmart you never left the parking lot next door now you're you're crying because you believe they're sending me back yeah you're banging your girl get your ass about a year they didn't come back around for that you couldn't wait you waited 10 years you couldn't wait a few more months

Or the guys that get high on the way to the halfway house, knowing. You're about to get drug test. Yeah, they get there and they're like, what? You're telling me, and you're eight years in prison, nobody ever mentioned, by the way, on your way to the halfway house. How many people did we see? Don't get fucked up. How many people did we see come back? That used to kill me.

They'd always like shocked. It was always like, can you believe they're doing this to me? Yes, I can. For sure. So I used to always say that the program. and stuff at the prison that they would try and do, the inmates always ruined it.

Like, every time they tried to do something for the inmates, they ruined it. The inmates ruined it every time. Not that the guards aren't assholes and douchebags in the administration. Sometimes a lot of them calls it too. Especially when the guards, sometimes guards ain't fucking with folks. They just want to kind of do their eight and get on. Those are the guards I like. Yeah. You're just trying to do the eight and trying to

get on about their way. Yeah, they don't care. Yeah. And the other ones is just, like, bro, like, I get it. You better get everybody shook down because of X, Y, and Z, bro, like, it's dumb. Oh, no, you, you're causing the problems. You know what I mean? So many problems. I can't, I just can't go back. It's funny, it wouldn't even be the going, I mean, if I didn't, like, if I wouldn't

marry and I wouldn't miss my wife, I wouldn't really care about going. It's just the, just dealing with these fucking jerkoffs. Mine is, it'll put me around people that I would normally. and they have no conversation. That's what I'm saying. I don't have anything to talk to you about. I don't. Although I didn't meet some good people.

Yeah. You're always going to meet some good people. Yeah. It's always some good people at a bunch. But, you know. It's right. I was going to say, Zach's one of them. My buddy, Zach, who keeps going, by the way, he's been out for five years.

Kind of? He keeps going back. He keeps getting arrested for fraud. Goes to jail. You know what I'm talking? It goes to jail for a year, gets everything dropped, whatever, gets back out, gets back on probation. Is it new case?

Oh, these are all new cases. What? But they can't, you know, they don't have this. They don't have that. They drop this. They drop that. He's back in. And then he gets picked up on another bunch of stuff.

He's like, you know, well, there are those statute of limitations is up on those three years. It's like three years. It's like, three years. Like, what did you do that? Like, what do you do that? Like, you're out three and a half years. Like, what do you? And he just, you know, he's, he's in right now.

He's, but he'll probably, he'll be out in a couple months. And he just, it's like, well, you just love it in there, don't you? You ever did this podcast? Huh? You ever did a podcast with Zach? Yes. He's hilarious. He's like a favorite.

Like people in the comments are like, where's Zach? Where's Zach? They love him. They love him. We got him his own, we started his own YouTube channel for him. Love it. And got it monetized within like a month. 30 days.

Which is like never, not heard of. To try to get him to, you know, do this. Just, yeah, just do the right thing. And he just, and he's, by the way, he's like off the category. Like the charge when I met him was, look, let me put, this is how, this is how much his judge couldn't stand him and how he's off the chart from the categories,

criminal category, off the chart. So I mean, if they had a 12, he'd be on 12. So he's a category 6 off the rip. Over. It's, oh, yeah, he can't go any higher. Like, you know, you get to 6 and then it stops. Is it 6 or 8? I think it's 7.

7? 7. But he's all. And he's got every enhancement. So literally he got 16. years for an $80,000, for $80,000. That's how many, that's how, like a charge there were, it should have gotten them, even what?

12 months. If that, maybe, could be two or three years probation if it was its first time. Yeah, for sure. But that's how bad, yeah, it's, it's, anyway, really irritated. So, yeah, but I have, but he, he, he, this is a horrible thing to say after just saying that, but he is a great guy. He's hilarious. He's funny.

He's Gregorius. You love being around him. He's amazing. Super smart. Can't stop coming from. But, yeah. Him, Pete. I mean, I met a bunch of guys.

A bunch of just amazing individuals in there. I've met a bunch of guys that I've had on the program. And some of them have on the program and gone right back to prison. On the program and they went back to prison? They've been on the program. And they're a month, well, six months later, they're in prison. or whatever, yeah, just for more crimes, not because of the program. I'm not to say, man, what you got going on?

Did you write any books? Did we go out here? What? What? What were we talking about? That's crazy. I've got three of them at our first. Are they about credit?

Oh, man, come on, man. What are you talking about, man? We got the personal, I got three. The other ones over there somewhere. I got the personal credit. I got a business credit and I got the credit card. So we wrote three different books. Do you do a, did you open like a credit?

like consulting, are you fixed people's credit? Yeah, so what we're doing now is actually consulting. People can go to Meetflame.com or either go to FlameCard's, get their cards, actually so they can setting them up. It's a three-step process. Like I told you, every single thing that we did to go in the bank, I just teach them. It just makes it easy. 27-point check process.

First is fixing your personal credit after your personal credit. do all your business stuff and then we'll get you to your credit cards and like you was just saying like how you started your crew off you was like hey get you these three secured cards right and everybody's always more than one his way to skin and cat I'm not that person that talked

down or say something this and a third I just want to put a person in position to not get credit to just get credit okay I'm trying to put you in a position to get credit to use it to help you either start a business

leverage Yeah, leverage all day long, right? Not just get it. I'm against you getting credit to buy a house. I'm with you getting credit to get a transitional home, right? I just got to see you monetize off of your credit, right, in some way. I didn't say that was bad to go get credit to buy a home. I just said you're just not for me. I like to deal with people who want large amounts of money, $150,000 or more. And I take them through that 27 point checklist to being able to get it. And everything that we talked about today, my trials, my tribulations have all gone up to put these things in books. As you know, when you sit in the inside, you say, what I'm going to do when I get out? I said that, hey, I'm going to write these books. And I came home and I actually did that.

Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, if you're interested in Flames credit course, the books, using him as a consultant to help repair your credit, get some stuff taken off your credit and rebuild your credit. We're going to leave the links for those programs and the books and the Amazon books. All of those links will be in the description box.

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