Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Death Row Confessions: Inmate Shares Insane Crime Stories

Episode Date: February 23, 2025

Stop data brokers from exposing your information. Go to my sponsor https://aura.com/matt to get a 14-day free trial and see if your personal information has been compromisedDan Thayer was sentenced to prison at age 15 & spent the next two decades involved in violent crimes & drug dealing. On this episode Dan shares the most important lessons learned from being around the worst human beings on earth, and personally experiencing death. Today, Dan has successfully turned his life around, became an owner of multiple businesses, a community leader, and a mentor to people of all backgrounds.Follow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrimeDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

I've been involved in pretty much every crime out there. When I took stuff, it was the only time I could pay attention. I brought a guy in my trunk one time to a meeting that I was trying to do the right thing. And you wanted a guy to go to what, like an AA meeting? No, no, I was going to the meeting, but I was in the middle of Robinham and he wouldn't give me the combination. So I threw him in my trunk, and then I was debating whether to be violent or to go to the meeting and try to do something spiritual. I ended up confessing in front of them, but I mortified these people. Like, I used to keep a guy around me that stabbed people all the time

because it made me look really good. You know what I mean? But he was my friend, but his main job was to look crazier than me, so I looked kind of normal. You know, I'm in a prison inside of two other prisons, which house all the, you know, death row inmates and ones that didn't have any more time. Right. And they were waiting to die.

They said that the difference between their heaven or hell, the ones cutting themselves and the ones that had this piece about them, Let me tell you about today's sponsor, ORA. ORA can identify data brokers exposing your info and submit opt-out requests on your behalf. Brokers are legally required to remove your information if you ask them, but they make it super hard to do it. You can try ORA free for two weeks using my link. aura also does so much more to protect you and your family from online threats that you can't see it's really easy to set up so you don't have to download several different apps to get things like parental controls password management identity theft insurance and more you get everything at one affordable price let aura do the hard work of keeping you safe online so you can focus on other tasks with peace of mind you can either let people continue to profit off of you and your private information or you can go to aura.com backslash Matt to start your two-week free trial, also linked in the description below.

So I grew up in Jersey. I grew up around a lot of people that were pretty laid back on laws and stuff like that. And my dad was a chemist, so we ended up in Newark and Bloomfield and Camden. You know, growing up there, his friend was a cop. And I remember when I was a kid sitting in the back of the cop car and they're in there, robbing weed from the dealers just taking it from them, you know, the cop is rather? Yeah, the cop is, yeah, and I'm in the back of the car. So I'm picking up on this stuff.

I don't know why I'm in the back of the car down in East Orange at night, but he's a East Orange cop. And, you know, great guy. My mom called him Dennis the Menace. I think it was Dennis. And I remember sitting in the back of that car thinking, these guys are in there. and somehow I knew they were taking stuff, you know, and Dennis was talking my dad into it, and he was like, I'm confiscating it, don't worry about it. You know what I mean?

Like if it goes bad. Yeah, this is a legal thing. And then nobody said nothing about me sitting in the back of the cop car, and I'm like hanging out, you know, and I was having a good time. And another time, he got asked to sit there and wait while a woman was dead, and they had to wait for, you know, something to happen. So he shows up there. He calls my dad over. and um these two were were clowns uh he goes yeah pick anything you want she's gone and you know

so i go down in the basement i come up with shotgun i i want this how old were you yeah i was about eight yeah seven or eight years old but uh those are like the earliest uh memories of when i look back on it how laxed everybody was what and my mother you know she became a jehovah's witness and my sisters and they took all my my toy guns away so i had this like fascination. Yeah, I just had to have them. I was like, they broke them, you know, and it would, it would bother me. I remember being obsessed with guns, and I don't think I would have been if, you know,

they would have me had my toys and stuff like that. But, yeah, they took that away from me. And I remember, like, you know, getting that shotgun. I was like, I want this, you know. And my dad was like, no, we're not taking that, you know. And, you know, just growing up, there was a lot of that, you know, they used to work for when my dad didn't have a, when the chemist's work would die down, he worked for these other guys and they had a limousine cab service what do you mean i mean chemist like i i would think like

he works in a lab or something uh well he made varnish uh he made Tylenol and all he was uh he went to night school to become a chemist and he was really smart like all the all the all on my father's side were really really smart people usually what addiction or alcoholism or something like that all the way up to like founders of west point in dartmouth college they were really smart people there's like uh but they couldn't do life right a hundred percent you know and um and my father was actually a good you know good hearted dude you know but serious drinker and uh didn't seem to have much of an impact but um he blew up the plant blew up that down in Newark that uh he was working at and he was in a coma for

a couple years and it wasn't his fault but he was near it yeah he was in it and uh he was in a coma for a number of months but a good friend of his you know he died in that and um and when he he came out of that he went from like a functional alcoholic to a to a dysfunctional one i guess you would call it so there was a lot of me running you know when he came out of there he came out kind of weakened decrepit so i figured i had to be the man of the house i bought my first gun at 11 i worked for i worked for a rubbish removal company which is gangster owned and uh you know it wasn't like the uh you know like a flashy gangster it was more like just businessmen yeah yeah did rubbish removal and they they were serious but they paid me people

pretty good. So I'd show up every day. My mother, I remember her thinking my way of looking at things was getting corrupted by the people I hung out with. You know, I learned at an early age, violence took care of a lot of stuff. One time they charged me too much. I was a kid doing rubbish removal, probably illegal now that I think about it. I was like 11 or something lifting. I was like 220, 6 to, you know what I mean? At that time. At 11? At 11? I was in, I was, I was, I I remember in sixth grade, I was 220 and 6-2. I'm 6-5 now, in 350, but back then I remember being a big kid, and I had no problem doing this work.

Right. And so they were giving me like $100 a day cash during the summer. It was giving me $60, and then he said, I buy you lunch. And then after the first day of buying me lunch, I ordered like 60 hot dogs. I don't know what it was. He's like, I'm going to give you $100 a day. You buy your own fucking lunch. He goes, excuse me, I mean, is it okay to cut?

Yeah, yeah, all right. Yeah. So, yeah, I thought I got a raise. And so yeah, we're working in Summit, New Jersey is kind of like a rich area. Right. I'm going to buy a tuna sandwich because I'm on lunch break, so I buy, you know, tuna sub. She charges me like 18 bucks for it or something. Something crazy. So he comes in there and just starts throwing shit around and you ain't going to charge this kid that much money for, you know, and I watched how they gave me the refund and let me keep the sandwich. Right. And I started getting the impression that if you just go and throw a big enough tantrum people just give you what you want right but i started digesting that type of

information and um it did not help me when i moved to florida my mother seen where it was going my dad had gotten better but with the being blown up but he uh gotten worse with the drinking so she moved this down here and at the time 30 or is it 35 years ago now uh 36 years ago the uh naples florida had a thing with single parents they just didn't want that here you know and she had we had three of us living down there and she kind of picked the place off a map and um and sold the house up there and moved down here so immediately i had i had a pretty good first year oh i did high school and all that not too much um not that i can remember but i remember you said something about stealing when you were little i remember one time taking my

my uncle had a bunch of crew grands that fell out of his pocket and i took them and i went to go buy candy at the store around the corner they call up and they say hey your son's got about two thousand dollars in gold trying to buy a snickers bar you want to come get this or whatever he was a nice guy he was but i remember when um when i took stuff it was the only time i could pay attention you know what i mean like it wasn't like i like taking stuff because i knew i it felt like weird it felt like i had to take a shit or something like you know what i mean i didn't like taking stuff but it was the only time i was hyper uh sensitive to the moment like it was the only time i wasn't living in my head it brought me to attention okay yeah yeah if you're getting caught so that was

something that it was kind of like an adrenaline rush yeah well it makes you pay attention like you when you're afraid to get caught focused yeah yeah and i never am focused on the moment until these things happen and then you know with drinking too that happened uh with that too you got to be in the moment not be all self you know obsessed but uh but i used crime as a as a way to get in the moment And I didn't know it at the time. You know what I mean? You can't figure that shit out. But in hindsight, you know, he's sitting prison enough of years.

You start looking at stuff. You're like, what the hell was I doing? You know what I mean? You do a lot of that. How did I get here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did I end up in the... I don't feel like I belong here.

Right. I notice a lot of these guys keep coming back. How do I not do that? Right. Yeah. How do I not do that? So I did a lot of that. But, yeah, coming down to Florida, I did pretty good.

My first year, I had something to obsess about. It was wrestling. Down here, they made me wrestle. up there I box and played football but down here I played football wrestling and I even did track just because I needed something because my mind was going crazy. We went from high like sensory you know you don't never have time to think and things are always going on people breaking in the house you know Newark was a little crazy right but um when you're down in Florida 35 years ago it's like

dead silent way a slower way of life yeah you can hear your brain yeah you can hear your brain working so i got into trouble that first year actually my my wrestling coach predicted it and i had one state and regional my first year wrestling i did really good i was but i was like 315 pounds solid and anybody in my weight class was like kind of round fat you know right i snapped one guy's rib they shouldn't have been wrestling they were just big guys and they threw them in there and um yeah i uh i got drunk like four regionals i got this big competition the next day and i go out and sneak out and get drunk and nobody would do it with me so i got some guy to buy alcohol got drunk came into the thing and i'm and they hand me a thing of uh noodles and garlic to you know

get your energy up i was about the shit my pants i was like what the and i'm in this tight-ass leotard i'm a big dude right so i'm like man i got to get i got to get this done with it so i in there and I turn cross-faced a guy and I snap his rib he starts screaming I'm like are we done they said yeah and I ran and I'm trying to rip this thing off they never had one that fit me anyway and I run to the bathroom and I'm like you know it's really tough to get out of that thing fast but I don't know why I the night before I had something to do I went and got drunk it's like I tried to make it more challenging for myself but these led on to that summer it wasn't because you were just anxiety and you were like trying to I don't think so

I just wanted to do something, I wanted something different. Like, yeah, I'm doing all this stuff, but I need a release. Okay. Yeah, and I need something different. And it was, you know, it was just the beginnings of kind of living outside of society, but at the same time I'm a hypocrite because I'm living in society. Right. You know what I mean?

So the end of that year, my wrestling coach, we ain't going to have a team next year. I said, coach, I'm a freshman. This is my first year here. I just won just about everything. And you guys just taught me all that. this stuff he goes oh you'll be in prison by next year i was like what it's like you know and then at august when i was sitting in prison i was like is i got a fucking profit or what you know how did he predict that like everybody could see that like i had uh limitless potential and then i was a hopeless

uh you know special case or something and i would get those conflicting looks right and i didn't know what that was and i was sitting in there for the first time i you know some cop he harassed me And I spun on him real quick and hit him. And it just, I must have just hit his jaw just right because it broke. I had to pay that. You know, I had to pay for that. And yeah, they ended up giving me five and a half years. I've never been convicted in nothing.

They never did nothing more than that, like, you know, taking my. Okay, so I let's go back to that. So how, I don't understand that he, you're a high school student. Yeah. And a cop just walked up to you and started giving you a hard time. Oh, no, that's, that story was I was leaving at like 1.30. the morning from a girl's house. Okay.

And they wanted, they said I was loitering and prowling. And at the time, I didn't even know what the hell that meant. Right. You know, and I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I already loitered and proud. Yeah, yeah. My girlfriend's house. Yeah, I was leaving.

I'm done. And they said they wanted to call her. And I was like, there ain't no way you're getting me in trouble with her and her dad. I was like, dude, I'm going home. I was like, you do what you want. And I went to walk away. And apparently that's a bad thing to do. Right.

You know what I mean? Because at the time, I was just a cocky, you know, I didn't know I was cocky, but I was like, this is what I'm doing, and I started doing it. And he horse-calls me, like, pulls the back of my shirt and yanks me back. And I just spun, and I didn't think I just reacted. And, yeah, I spun and hit them. And then next thing you know, I took off running. Next thing you know, they're all at my house.

They're arresting me for, what was it, aggravated assault and battered on a Leo or something on the law enforcement officer? And I'm like, ah, so I go to. court my uncle's uh he still owned a law firm at a time in new jersey and i called him and asked him what i should do and he's like just tell the truth it's a fight you know whatever you're going to get some trouble he's like just tell the truth and i was like all right yeah he said you're the professional but he did he bonded me out and he thought if i just told the truth i'd be a kid i get a smack on a wrist or maybe something but uh they said yeah five and a half years good luck

son and is what they told me and when i told the judge i said your honor i said this was not more than a fight. I said, he started it, you know, and I ran home. Oh, they gave me a fleeing and a looting too. And, uh, and I was like, the only reason I have a crime is because you guys were harassed. You know, I had, I was just, it was just crazy to me. And, uh, so my mother's in the back and I don't know it. And, uh, he says, good luck, son. I was like, yeah, thanks, dad. And I'm being a smart ass on top of getting this five and a half years. I find out my mom's in the back crying. I was like, ah, shit. I didn't know she was there. And, um, excuse me. So, so, Yeah, I end up getting sentenced as a youthful offender.

And as soon as I get to DOC, they won't recognize my youthful offender status. They sentenced me as an adult. Right. They changed it from, they said that they're allowed to do that because, you know, they're in charge of housing you. Yeah, they looked at you and said, oh, we can't put him in with fucking. Yeah, we can't do that. So they sent me to a prison. I ended up about two years in, I was collecting for guys because I didn't have nobody sending me money.

so guys would pay me to collect for them i would get stuff and and uh and i was pretty comfortable and then this guard tried me and i and it was just too hot one day and i ended up hitting him knocking him out and it was not good uh they gave me two more years after that yeah so yeah i come out of prison i'm i'm pretty much hating the cops now or all authority and there was no reason for that but it was just like a blanket hatred um because i felt like i've been kind of done wrong. We're taking no responsibility for the part I played. Well, I was going to say, too, the problem with moving across the country is that what's

acceptable in one part, I don't think a lot of people realize this, and even in the federal system, you could get arrested in California for methamphetamine, manufacturing methamphetamine, and get a couple years. Same thing in a different part, still federal system in a different part of the country, you know they'll give you 15 years you're like well you know but it's just that's why they're that's why the states are in control of themselves and their own sets of laws and that's why even the federal system is broken up into districts yeah because every district is slightly different right you know um and i was going to say and you're moving from an area of the country where they would probably

shrug it off as being just a kid you know who you know punched the cop and it went wrong and whatever and he took off running, he was scared or whatever. And they might have been like, hey, you know, there's a higher level of violence in this area. So we don't consider that as as serious of a crime. Yeah. But in Florida, 30 some odd years ago, it's a much different environment and respect of the law is a huge thing.

Right. And so, yeah, so I can see you coming down here thinking, well, this isn't that big of a deal. Right. And in Florida, they're saying, oh, no, it's a huge deal. Yeah. Even the way you talk to the cops. Yeah.

The cops a certain kind of way, maybe in New York, that you come down here and they're not going to take any shit. No, not at all, not at all. So, yeah, it was, no, it's like night and day when I, because I remember cops where I was from, they would take their badge and gun off. If there was a person who was, you know, being belligerent and wanted to fight,

they wouldn't make it like a charge. They make it like a fight, you know. They'll just shoot you here. Yeah, no, here they don't play. And they were very much like that 35. They're a little better now. actually there's a lot I'm actually friends with a lot of the same judges that try to give me life send people to work for me now so so I know they've changed and grown a little the one judge

her dad tried to give me life and it was funny I was sitting at a function and the mom of the judge the woman judge is sitting next to me and then her her husband the other judge's dad he tried to give me life and she asked me and she goes oh what do you how are uh how do you know my daughter. And I was like, ah, well, I said, well, your husband tried to give me life in prison. Your daughter sends people to work for me and says, you got to go around this guy. I said, so, you know, kind of like part of the family. She starts laughing. She goes, yeah, he was a little rough, you know. But that's what I was, you know, they weren't getting my sense of humor right down there. Yeah, they definitely weren't. Yeah, they didn't have a sense of humor

about it. And they were, they were kind of ruthless. And, and, and, but like, you. you said they had a certain way of doing things that worked for them and i come here like you know screw florida i'm from jersey not knowing you know just being a kid and and you know it's just being cocky and uh it took me years to catch up on that though it took three more prison bids and like finally i realized i was like you know these people ain't playing down here they're trying to give me life for 20 years now so in the first prison uh uh uh your first prison sentence you got you you ended up hitting the guard you got an extra two years how much total did did you end up doing on that ended up all it was doing day for day i went in when i was 15 and and got out when i was 20

just turned 22 yeah holy shit no time off at all yeah well every time i got a little bit uh they had this thing called CRD at the time they were giving guys like a year a week but i couldn't get it because i had a violent charge then they would have uh another thing called like 60, 60, 40, I don't know. They were giving out all this stuff that just didn't apply to me. And then every time I got a little bit of hope of doing the right thing, I had to bust somebody up or do something that, it took all that away. I spent a lot of time in the box, you know, it was always getting, uh, everything just kind

of revoked. There's no air, AC in fucking state prison. Oh, no, it's horrible. Yeah, they got these fans. And when you're in the box, even worse, you got like a little window and nice, time you're like grateful for a little breeze oh my god yeah that's rough you can go and take a shower you come back you're still drenched yeah it's not cool I was that at that time I remember hearing about guys in the feds thinking man I wish I can go there you know and I you know because you hear you

got AC and then jobs that pay like I was telling you on the phone and you know I know I know it's only like 10 cents an hour but it was something you know well listen the guy there were guys that would you know they'd have to do like state time and then they have to come do federal time like go straight from state to these guys would you couldn't you couldn't knock the smile off their face for six months

they were so happy they were like bro you got AC the food's good and they were just so ecstatic you can watch movies you can go to the rec yard and do this they got this they got and you're just like this guy's nuts yeah you're telling me I can go back for seconds right now

yeah you can go back for a second they're not going to say nothing no like you know no And then they get there. They start eating, like looking for the guards. You're like, bro, nobody's going to kick you out. You can sit here for two hours if you want to eat. Are you choking?

Yeah. You know, so, yeah. Yeah, it's like a vacation I heard, you know, but a lot longer stays I heard too. Oh, yeah, it's outrageous. You'll get 10 years and you get two years in the state or 10 years. Right. It's funny, my mom sent me an article when I was in prison that's called Bring Back the Lash. And they had done a survey of, I don't know how many, let's say a thousand inmates or something.

And they were saying, would you rather go to prison or get, be basically taken out into like the town square and whipped with a lot, you know, like, whoosh, like, would you rather do five years or get 50 lashes? Listen, everyone, it was like, out of a thousand, there was like 995 that said to lash me. Yeah. I would rather be lashed. And it's not that it's, you know, it's just the, you know, you, I'll heal from the lashes, but I can't get another five years off my life. You know what I mean? So, you know, so when I'm, when I joke about how, yeah, it's way better than the state. But the truth is, is that people would rather be taken out and just lashed, they didn't have to go to prison at all. Right, right. Yeah, one day was too much. You don't realize when you're younger, like, you're giving up 15, like when my mom passed, that's when it hit me that. I spent 15 years away and didn't have that, that time with her. You know, just phone call. You know, every time she came to visit, I was in the box, so they would send her away. You know what I mean?

There was always, there was never not complications for all that time. And then I didn't expect her to die so young, but that's when I felt it. You know, when you start thinking like that, it's like, oh, man, I, you know, because when you're young, you're like, ah, it's no big deal, you know. Yeah. I didn't really think about it too much. It was kind of like, like I said, it was like a camp for me. You could take out your anger on anything and nobody cares. And as far as I knew, it was pretty much like a lazy man's heaven.

Like my dad said, when I was a kid, he called from Caldwell jail one time. He was like drinking and driving or something. And he goes, what's it like in there, dad? He goes, oh, it's a lazy man's heaven. And it's true. It's like you've got no stress. Well, I didn't have any stress. But a lot of people, you know, they get in there and they, you know, they think it's so horrible.

But I was like, no, out there was horrible growing up. Right. not knowing how to do stuff and I don't know I got accustomed to it until I learned how to live out here I didn't know how much I missed you know right yeah and I did not know compounded ignorance they say yeah I get out here and it's like it's it's amazing how much free entertainment there is out here it's like like you want to watch if you want to watch walking dead in prison then when the sheet comes out you write on the sheet hey Saturday Matt Cox he wants I want to watch this and then you know you're you're basically divvy and let's let's face it if a guy who's six foot two walks in and says we're not watching that shit yeah and turns the channel what am I gonna do yeah I'm like yeah of course I don't know why I even put it down there yeah of course we're gonna watch fishing yeah yeah so but yeah it's it's it's like you come out here like you've got you got YouTube you got everything's just you know I understand there's advertisement but it's essentially free you could turn the channel when you want like it's you know it's it's it's it's

It's just such a, compared to prison, it's just such a joke living out here. Yeah, it's almost like a stimulus override, like a, as long as you want to, as long as you want to work. Yeah, yeah, you've got to work. Yeah, I was the one thing I thought I was going to be rich when I got out of prison in 08. And I was like, I'm going to be rich because I don't have a $5,000 a day drug habit. You know, I'm picking the money. You're going to start pouring in any minute now. I was like, I think I got to get a job.

There's nothing going on here. I start picking furniture up, putting it down. and you know eventually turned it into something but but so first prison sentence you get out yeah and at that point i had never you know i drank a few times but i never really got into uh using anything i i've been stabbed a couple times and i got some pain pills and um you know and and pain pills feel nice you know and so i started finding stuff that felt pretty good you know and um and that was uh due to the anger i had too because i got out and started playing semi pro ball and i and I remember like I would trip on acid and play semi-pro ball and it was crazy and it was like

seeing the craziest stuff and I loved it I was having fun with it I don't know how good I was but I got like picked up by a couple pro teams like that wanted me to come play and I'd get indicted on something our team was like 12 convicts and a cop I think a cop was on our team too they made him quit but he's like you can't be with all these guys playing football we're in overtown of Miami. And, uh, yeah, like, no, you can't hang out with these guys. But I started getting involved with all these different things. When I got out of prison, I had friends over on the East Coast. And, um, you know, I had all these people in Naples that wanted drugs. And I had friends I made in the East Coast. I was like, man, I know where all this stuff is, you know,

so I started bringing acid over and Coke and all kinds of stuff. And I never really mess with anything hard until, um, like slowly but surely it started, you know, partying a little more, a little more. At first, it was just a way to make money and it helped my friends out, and I kind of felt like I was screwed over, so I had the right to do it. Right. Yeah, I felt entitled to selling drugs because you took away any chance. I had to get, you know, no response, still taking no responsibility for anything. Yeah.

It's just justifying. No, just to justify. No, just to justify, total denial and eventually, like, really crazy. You throw a bunch of drugs on that, and it just, it makes for a wild, you know, story that you don't really remember like only in bits and pieces but uh i knew i remember going to prison a lot that was it and then i would get out run hard and end up back in prison but uh i've been involved in pretty much every crime out there shorter like uh you know messing with kids or anything like that i pretty much got uh everything you know what i mean from uh kidnapping to you know whatever

Okay, so how did you, and what was the second prison? The second prison bid was about four years, and I actually went to a prison that had a seat. That was nice. It was a privately owned prison. George Wackenhead owned Moorhaven, not too far from here, I don't think. But anyway, I end up there for four years, and that was for 11 sales and manufacturing. or heroin charges that they dropped nine of them. I could have beat all of them,

but the CI that was in my case that set me up. Right. He got his head blown off while I was in the county jail. That's upsetting. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't wish that on him, but he was snitching, so, you know, people deal with that type of stuff. Things happen.

Yeah, yeah. So I end up going, and there was one, my buddy Pecks, who he got 30 years. They found a couple of Uzi's and kilos at his dad's house. It was his stuff. He went and took the blame for it and got 30 years. And he asked me to make sure these kids didn't get, you know, messed up or anything. His two kids with this girl.

And so I was chilling, watching over her. She gets a cop to come sit down and buy stuff. I was like, I don't know this guy. I'm not selling them nothing. And so she did it right in front of me. And I could have beat that charge too, but she would have lost the kids. So I took four years on the house just so she didn't catch that charge. when they asked you know when he said uh when he said she handed it to him i said i handed it to you i put

that there i made her do that you know and then so they they they got happy with four years because they were about to lose their whole case right the CI got killed and then they didn't have much there with the thing because i never handled none but i ended up taking that one and um and i ended up in a pretty decent prison and a work release center it's crazy how i ended up in work release because you're not supposed to go there with my kind of stuff but I did end up going there and a friend of mine gave me a job over

in Lauderdale at Pompano at the work release center and they tried to give me the rest of my time on paper and I was like nah I said I just did four years I'm not doing whatever they called it at the time it was called CRD or some control release dates

and you have to report and all this stuff so I was like nah I'm not doing that send me back and and Joe My buddy Joe, he just passed away about a year ago. It was real sad. But he was working with me, and then he had a heart attack. But he was a guy from Jersey City.

That whole family died. But they all came down here. One of them, I don't want to skip around too much. But anyway, he gives me that job. I tell him to send me back behind the wall because I'm not doing any paper. Now, at this time, I had hired 11 guys underneath me. They're like, you're not going anywhere. You're going to finish this.

And you got your two, you're getting too many people. people you know i was getting the full 209 a week you give them out of your paycheck is like the maximum i had 11 guys doing that so they didn't want to lose the income so i was like well i'll be in treasure island down 130 in miami tomorrow at a strip club i said you can come get me if you want to i said but i'm not i'm not doing no paper and uh they did they came and got me right they said you better not i was like all right i'm telling you and and i was hard-headed like that i couldn't i don't know why i couldn't do paper or but i just felt like they got enough out of me right you know and i and i always felt kind of entitled to some kind of rights and maybe i was

maybe i wasn't but i was like over the top with it like if you if you pushed it i'll push it with you and we can go all the way to the bus out so they sent me back to south florida and then to desoto and uh i did the rest of my time and got out how much time uh that time i did a about five total with the year of paper i was supposed to do on paper so i got four i did four and then i went to work release and then i would have had a year on that paper or whatever so but you said i'd rather just be behind them yeah and then i went back to de soto and i ended up leaving there that was a medium maximum maximum security and um yeah i was in and out of there and hendry back in the 80s and 90s what was the kidnap you said there was yeah well i would

take drug dealers like i i got my eventually when i started using drugs i was using so much because of my size my talons went right through the roof i had um i got stabbed and oh and then i had a gallbladder operation they gave me these pills i really liked them so i called in the doctor and i was like yeah i spilled them down the sink he goes nobody ever spills the antibiotics he goes how come they always spill the pain pills i was like i don't know man but i need more they're so tiny yeah yeah they were good And I remember feeling like I want to feel like this all the time. Right. And I was pretty much hooked at that point.

So anyway, my drugs got worse. And the thing about drugs is you could do whatever you want and you ain't got to deal with your conscience when you just use drugs. So my tolerance went through the roof because I pushed that envelope all the way. So I couldn't afford the drugs I was doing. I didn't have a job. I couldn't sell drugs anymore because I would do them all. so I just started robbing drug dealers and that was going along pretty good you know what I mean

and and of course of course that's the logical that's the logical next step that's what I came up with yeah yeah I'm figured they're doing wrong I'm doing wrong we'll just see was better at it right you know and I didn't care I just like so one time the I told Julian is one time the DEA caught me on camera they were they were watching these guys and it was on New Year's Eve and I I had a guy with me my boy from Jersey City that he was on escape from Rawley and he was down here

and he tells me this guy what was his name he was like a dude who did five years for armed robbery that's all he told my boy so he came with us and he and we only had one gun so he held the gun I said look dude I'll handle

throwing people around all that anybody pulls a gun and shoot him and so he's like yeah I got you now he never told the story what that arm robbery was. It was a finger under the shirt trying to rob a drugstore for some pills. So the guy was a punk.

Right. You know what I mean? Like he was just... He was an idiot. Yeah, he wasn't an armed robbery. And I couldn't believe Walt just like took his word for it. And so anyway, I go, so he knocks on the door.

He gets the guy to open the door. Put the gun in his face. The guy starts closing the door on him. I go, what are you doing? I said, shoot that motherfucker. Right. And you wouldn't do it. So I ripped the door open.

I picked the guy up. threw them through a table the whole time this thing is on being watched and i'm like and i didn't know this but i go in there i get everything i get out of there uh we jump in a car and the guy's like this is like a comedy now because he doesn't know how to ride a stick he jumped in the seat it's a stick you know and he's going rah and i'm going what are you doing he goes i don't know how to write it i said what are you doing that seat and i throw him in the back seat and i jump in and i you know It got us down around the way, and I pulled right up on a cop, too. It was weird.

And I couldn't figure out where the lights were. I came out of prison. They started doing this thing where you turn the. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, looking for the lights. I'm like, we used to pull it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you pull this thing out.

I'm looking for that. And he's like, and so I flip the lights on. I'm right behind this cop, flip them off. And I said, is that the lights? And I'm sitting there flashing a cop. And, you know, he don't, I guess he don't give a shit. So he takes off. I take off.

Two weeks later, this kid who's under surveillance, not a kid, but he's a man, he calls my boy and goes, you ain't going to believe this. I've just been indicted from the DEA and they've been watching my house. And they seen Dan Thayer come in there and rob me and they won't do anything about it. They told me, we know who that is. We don't care. So I took that as now my boy who's like, so wait a minute, you were trying to snitch on my, you know, he's a good friend of mine. He's like, oh, he robbed me.

And he doesn't know that my friend set this whole thing up. Right. All right. So the dude's like a little, you know, whatever. And he's a mark. And so he gets all mad at him wanting to stab him because he's trying to snitch on me. But then he tells me the story. And I'm like, so wait a minute.

So the DA don't care that I rob drug dealers? So that's just cart bunch. Oh, man. I just went all out. Like I started going to different states and all kinds of stuff and just setting up, you know, Or, you know, not trying to hurt people, but sometimes it'd get a little crazy. But, yeah, I remember one time trying to hit a house, and the real DEA showed up. And I had a girl on the inside, unlocking the door and everything in my, and I finally brought

a friend of mine with me. He wanted to go with me. And I knew he wasn't a snitch. He did time before and stuff. So I was like, yeah, you can come with me. So we're in the woods. I got DEA drab on, like, trying to look like a, you know, official. And so I got the woman about to open the door.

next thing you know they real the real people hit it and he goes the real dea hit that house the guy had stacks and stacks of cookies and cocaine and cooking up all kinds of stuff and uh he goes what do we do i said we leave it's like we're out of here that was the most sensible thing i did in that period of time because i would i went i really got shot to shit i'm like oh yeah i'm just taking the evidence get out of the way guys you know i didn't have that kind of you know that's like a like a real balzy person i didn't have that much you know if I can't slam stuff around and whatever I just yeah I was like we leave now and he got busted that guy got busted but so that went on and on like we went um it's funny that guy too he got

clean for like a seven-month period he's dead now too but um pretty much everybody knows dead yeah yeah so what I don't okay so well how does the kidnapping charge come in so I mean oh no charge for getting that well uh no I never got caught for getting that oh okay I You might have to edit that. I've never been... Well, I've never been... I've been arrested for murder, didn't know it, died it on six different homicides that, you know,

when you were talking about the guy being in jail and sitting next somebody, somebody confessed to the murders that I was in jail for. Now, I had, at that time, I had armed a drug dealer right in front of the police station, beat them right in front of the police station. They had me dead to rights. Right.

They arrested me for armed robbery. of a drug dealer. Right. I couldn't believe it. I was like, nah, it's like, the DEA doesn't care

about this type of stuff. They told my buddy. Yeah, yeah, they told my buddy. They don't give a shit. Yeah, I'm an idiot. Yeah,

so they end up, they offer me a deal saying if I did this lie detector test and did this hair and blood sample, I wouldn't, they wouldn't convict me of the armed robbery, which I did do right in front of the police station.

Like, the guy I robbed them. Okay, so I don't, okay. After the DEA thing. Yeah. Yeah. You're still continuing to rob places. Oh, yeah.

Rob drug. How long does that go on? I don't know for years. Like, I would get caught for stuff, but I would like, it would be stupid things, you know what I mean? Besides the murders and I had a, well, I had a home invasion too. But there was like, you know, I would get away with a lot of stuff. I walked away from a home invasion in 94, which they, you know, really screwed up. But I'm grateful, you know, but I would get some.

stuff like that in in tying into robbing drug dealers like you know what I mean like there was a lot of excess damage they couldn't get me for the things I really did but they would get me for a bunch of other stuff right yeah so we can't get him for the home invasion right we can't get him because we pulled his car over and he did have drugs on him yeah arrested for the drugs oh yeah all the time I was always getting caught with drugs on me anytime they searched me I always forgot I had something in my sock the last bit I did was because I had a Xanax in my sock And I just threw out three guns. I was like, oh, man, I really thought I got away with something.

Right. I was trying to give me life because of the priors and all the, you know, they re-sentence you here over and over again. And they use a point system. Well, you know. Yeah. Yeah, a point system. So, yeah, I had too many points. And the judge was trying to give me life at that last time.

But that's when I ended up at Death Road being a. So what happened? What happened with that? So let's get the, that's what your last. lengthy prison sentence? No, that was only a couple years. I had like two years. The judge offered me,

the judge said, why ain't I giving you life today? I said, well... So I understand how did you get arrested for that? Oh, I got arrested. What was the crime? I was out at a house, I was loading up somebody's tools,

and I remember them, and I was like, because I was on Xanax. Right. And when I'm on Xanax, I start just loading stuff up to go sell it. And I don't know what the hell's wrong with me. But on Xanax, it's like, it tells you the dumbest shit,

to do. And I remember loading up the tools at this house and going, you know what we can get for this? He goes, yeah, I bought them. They're my tools. I was like, don't worry. I'll break you off. Like there was no sense to my thinking. I'm telling the guy that has letting me chill at his house and get high that I'm loading this stuff up. Don't worry, I'll break you off for selling your stuff. Right. And in my mind, I'm thinking, this is a come up, but he should be grateful. You know, and this is how crazy I was at the time. And so I dip out and somebody talks me into going and getting him cocaine at like two in the morning. And he's dead too now.

But him and his girlfriend start bickering. And I can't handle that shit. It bothers the hell out of me. So I told him, I said, you know what? You two get the fuck out of the car. They're like, this is my car. I said, well, not right now. I'm going to get you this coke.

You're getting out. So I left him at a gas station. I got three guns on me, a crack pipe, Xanax in my sock, which I had a script for. But they're not supposed to be out of the bottle. Anyway, I'm driving up the road. I'm like two minutes away from. from going and get coke and the cops start going behind me and I'm like shit I can't get caught

with these guns so I start throwing them out on 41 you know 41 runs all the way yeah Tamiami is Tampa to Miami but did yeah so I'm on Tamiami trail throwing guns out heading you know head knees I get rid of the guns they don't seem to see them I have the one thing in my sock I forgot about the crack pie that kind of fell down so I get a paraphernalia and one pill and the judge tries to you know throw light I've been on Bond going to court and uh i kind of i kind of carjacked those those two people when you look at it like like that's it wasn't like you know yeah but i did throw the guy out physically and told him to shut his bitch up like you know that's how it was at the time i was like

shut her up dude it's going to be it's going to be hard to walk away from some people could would consider that as car yeah yeah so it was like you know people are sticklers yeah well the people that are real sticklers and they like to uh did they call the police I'd say this guy just took off with my car? I don't think so. I don't think this dude would have did that. Maybe she did. I don't know, but they were on me like pretty quick.

And plus, I couldn't drive. Yeah. It was like all Xanaxed out. And I remember like going to jail. That was the thing I was telling you about. They still did ink at the time. Right. And I just was so high.

I kept rubbing my face. So when they did the ink, I was just like, ah, I'm tired. Let me go lay down, you know? And I did. I wanted to go to sleep. I was so tired. And his mugshot has like all this ink all over his face. Looks like I'm all bruised.

I had people calling me, are you all right? I'm like, I'm fine, dude. I was just, I got ink all over my face. So it, yeah, it was a rough night. I knew I shouldn't have went out that night. But there's always a gut to tell you, do not go. And I went, and I blame them for that. Yeah, that was their fault.

They got thrown out of their own car. I got in trouble. And so anyway, that last thing, I'm on bond. And my dad at the time says, oh my friends you know from like the 60s or 70 he goes this is how they got off heroin back in the day because they take methadone so we went to these the doctors at the time were just handing stuff out yeah and so we went there and i bought you know i told the guy what was going on he basically told me what to say and my dad did the same thing and each one of us got 320 40 milligram wafers a month

so i got 640 of them right because your dad doesn't need them no he don't need them so took them all and he's like you know we could sell something i said no we can't i'm eating all of them and so i did this for a year on bond and i'm eating like five bars a day with them and i'm doing a bunch of coke and stuff but so in that year i commit like because i think i'm going away or you know how you get that like hopeless yeah it don't matter what i do type thing it can get worse i'm already going to go for 10 years if i get caught for something they'll either throw it in yeah or it will be 11 yeah might as well ride it out yeah so i did that for a year to the point where I wasn't getting called for nothing when I went in to see the judge

finally I was like I was like your honor I said I need about two years to go lay down I said will you get that to me today and he was pissed he was like why ain't I giving you life you know he's like you're you're a career criminal every you know you're always here you know just and I said look I had a script for that one pill you guys found and I said I can get all that and I can have my lawyer beat this charge or you can give me two years today and i'll take it and um it was like two years two months and he he was pissed but he gave and i told him i said you know i'm on this and one of the comments i did read that somebody said it was impossible to be on 800 milligrams of methadone a day i was on this for over a year i don't know if they count the wafers as

milligrams 40 milligram wafers 20 a day with about five bars a day now people think this is impossible to take i chewed up 10 of them as soon as i wore up and then about another 10 throughout the day every day 20 of them right and so me and my pop got these bottles I just went through them every month and I didn't have any to sell and you know I got no I got no this the kick was 65 days long I had four seizures probably from the Xanax you're not supposed to really get seizures from the methadone but I don't know you're not supposed to take that much that's like most people take with like 120

milligrams a day that's serious methadone habit right I for some reason couldn't be affected uh or I was affected my liver was enlarged and my heart got enlarged but that was later but the uh but I didn't feel the effects like it wasn't it wasn't doing that it was making me normal so that day the judge sentenced me he goes why aren't I giving you life today I said you could try that I said I really want to lay down and kick this methadone habit I said this stuff is bad he goes so you're high right now I said man, I ain't been high in years. He goes, I said, I'm normal right now. I said, do I look high to you?

I'm not high. I feel normal. And I said, but I am on a ton of methadone. Right. So he let me do the sentence anyway. So, because I guess they got to ask you if you're on. Yeah, you're not technically, you're not supposed to be able to do it. So he sent me away.

And then, like, within two or three weeks, I'm still kicking, like violently kicking. My body's rebelling. I'm on buses. I end up at Rayford. and, you know, I'm in a prison inside of two other prisons, which house all the, you know, death row inmates and all, you know, and then I'm a work, I end up with this job. At first I was kicking, so I was told him, I said,

I ain't doing nothing. You could throw me in the box or whatever. I ain't doing nothing for about two months. And I said, when I get my strength back, you'll get your work out of me. They just left me alone. You know what I mean? And then they gave me a job. So I was cool with that.

You know, by the time I got up walking around the track and got my weight up a little bit. but I was fine working, you know what I mean? And then you just get into a routine, the thing. But it was weird. Being on death row was like, well, not, you know, it was not sentenced to death row. So nobody doesn't think I'm full of shit.

But being able to go all down key wing and all the wings where guys are like hopeless and eating their own feces and just sick shit going on all the time, one death a week about, you know, regular. Somebody hung themselves. somebody got lit on fire somebody cut their dick on it was crazy one time they sent me down there to find a penis yeah i wasn't doing it so they were like sending me down there with a bag of ice and a bat and a plastic glove on i'm like dude you're out you know you're out of your mind you better

go down on yourself and he was like you know it was a it was a it was like uh like uh like a like a drama between two homosexuals or whatever and he was sticking his you know thing through the thing and he bit it off because he found out he was cheating on him it was like you know like what do they call that shit days of our lives like a soap opera death row soap opera death row soap opera and that's what it was and you know those guys are deadly serious about you know yeah it can go intense but uh i uh i remember some experiences from you know just dealing with all that there was uh there was a guy writing me at the time uh who was really he was really all in my corner he threw that guy walt then i told you that um he died but he was

clean for like seven months and showed me it's possible this is a dude who i got a job because he wanted to be a barber so i got him a job at my friend's barbershop and he stabbed the guy because he didn't like his haircut so this is the kind of guy he was very temperamental to say to least and uh and we ran together for like 20 something years faithfully like if you know we did anything we did it all together and and he was a good dude but uh but he was a little psychotic and um so anyway he showed me for a period of time in seven-month period of time. He got his life together. We got his daughter back.

He had a credit line. He married a counselor in prison, the counselor that was in prison. He ended up marrying her. She was a good girl. Yeah. So he scored. Everything was great. And he goes, I'm just going to sell weed.

And I was like, dude, I said, I don't think that's a good idea. I said, I don't know enough about this recovery shit, but you seem to be doing really good. Yeah. You know what I mean? At that time, I didn't know a lot about it. But he introduced me to a guy. he goes I can't understand what this guy's saying but he'd be good for you and the guy

he really he really like kind of tricked me into changing my whole life yeah he was way smarter than me and anyway I ended up living on his food time with him and his wife in that house for like six months or something like that and I'm six five the futon's like four or five so I got legs hanging over my neck would wake up

with lines across it and I stayed on this stupid food time because the stuff he was like the concepts he was breaking down to me they they gave me hope that I can change and he separated who I was from what I did right he was able to do that and this is the guy that was writing you yeah he ended up writing me on that last bit because I had a relapse and then I went out again it was usually over my daughter like I'd have my daughter I'd do good I'd lose my kid and I just didn't see any reason to do good right I didn't have any worth and um so At this time, I'm there. In fact, when I was there learning this stuff, I didn't learn it until a lot later.

But he was telling me things. And his wife, I remember I kicked and he would take me these meetings and just, you know, took me around everywhere, just showing me how to live without the use of drugs because I had to learn that again. You know what I mean? I used to not do any drugs and then I got hooked on him. So he's teaching me how to do all this stuff. And his wife's like, you know, my appetite came back. So I'm eating them out of a house at home

They are not rich And the wife starts, you know, nagging about it So I'm like, God damn it So I go on the hood in Fort Myers and rob a drug dealer And I don't take the drugs I bring the money back And I go here, here's some money, shut the fuck up I need to hear this guy

That is, you know, I was nicer about it But I was basically like shut up You know, it's just I know I eat a lot Don't worry about it And so I gave her money She was like, oh, you won't hear a word out of me So she was like a little crazy but she's a nice lady she was she was just like i just want the money i don't care what's going

yeah yeah and uh but he on the other hand he would write me every week he'd send like these he would write a little bit every day but every week he'd send me like a 20 30 page letter on you know what books to read and stuff like that i mean a lot of st francis and you know just guys that got outside of themselves you know what i mean and and that my my problems were of my own making from selfishness like you were saying that one guy that had all that money and he was doing this stuff his greed got got him cloudy in the mind and made him do dumb things where is right yeah if he had a clear mind he would have made better decisions so you're you're almost powerless to make good decisions when you're clouded by a by like a driving force a deep desire to do something

and you don't care what happens yeah I was I was I was going to say I think Colby heard me say to see the other day. There was a guy in prison named Red Bull who legitimately, well, they called him Red Bull. Right, right. Because he was actually in there for selling Red Bull vending machines on what's called a business opportunity scam that he was running. Anyway, he went to trial, got 15 years, something like that. So this is a guy who legitimately could make $2 million a year by himself, just legitimately doing what he does. But if he could illegally make two and a half million, he'd go ahead and do the two and a half million.

It's like, you're not okay legitimately making two million. You've got to turn it into some kind of a scam to make an extra $500,000. Right. And he just would. It's like the same thing. Like you could make money legitimately and not risk anything and live the rest of your life. But yeah, but if I do this, it could be a little bit more. Yeah, but you're sacrificing everything.

Right. But in your mind... Yeah, that's what... When you were describing those definitions of this and that kind of... So the agocentric has no choice but to go for the more. Right. You know what I mean? But if you know there's only so many resources and everybody's got to try to get along

and that you can't just go... Like I learned from the guys I grew up with, you smash on anything. except for your family, your people. Right. You know, and I found out later that these guys weren't 100% loyal to that. You know what I mean? But it took me going and doing it first where, like, you could stub your toe or my mom could stub her toe and you're having a heart attack

and I'd mush you to get to my mom. Right. You know what I mean? I just got a stubbed toe. Right. That's how I messed up my wiring thinking like that. Right. Yeah, just ego-centric.

Like, I can't not, you know, do good by her. screw you I don't know you you know what I mean like that's how it was for a while and I wasn't like that but learning that way and then doing that way it uh it caused derangement it did cause derangement I had to did you the other day say say to me when we were talking on the phone you said uh I take a bullet from my daughter but I wouldn't go out and get a job right yeah I'll die for right that's easy and but I won't live for yeah yeah I thought about that a lot I mean literally like people typically say stuff to me but that's been since you said that that's been playing through my fucking mind like three four times a day I've thought fuck like that's such a great way to say it yeah I did well I just don't like hypocrisy like and when I say it I'm not judging it I'm just saying I don't want it in my life it doesn't make me once I know I'm living a lie I can't do it right you know what I mean I can lie to anybody and I could do whatever but but lying to myself or or not really sticking to the code that's what broke me about a lot of gangsters and all that like when

i started realizing um their their hatred and everything was all based in fear i couldn't i couldn't deal with it anymore i thought these people were courageous right you know what i mean and i had to get out of it but uh but with my kid i thought um you know uh you know sucking it up being a man not asking for help all this stuff was the was the way to go but but like chumping myself and asking how do i do stuff or whatever this is how my brain was talking to me at the time like dude you can't do this what the hell so i'd rather you know i'd rather give a noble a time go to prison and all this crap where i'm not there right then and i didn't know i was doing this at the time it was like hidden from my uh awareness or whatever but but i yeah i'd kill myself or i'd i'd uh

Or I, you know, I'd kill myself trying to do stuff. All that I'd do was get in line, be like people, learn how to do stuff and do that. So my kid knows how to do that. Right. And that was my whole basis of my turnaround, too. It was back in 2008. I came out as kind of a recession. I joked about.

It's your fault. But anyway, I came out into a recession. I started picking stuff up, putting it down, just working. But my real job was to only do what I would tell my daughter to do. and not do what I'd tell her not to do. That was my only job, because most people were scared of me at this point, so nobody was going to be like that one guy that died

who helped me out a lot. I had a lot of, you know, trying to do the right things, but also being a little crazy. I brought a guy in my trunk one time to a meeting that I was trying to do the right thing. So you wanted a guy to go to, what, like an AA meeting? No, no, I was going to the meeting, but I was in the middle of Robinham,

and he wouldn't give me the combination. So I threw him in my trunk, And then I was debating whether to be violent or to go to the meeting and try to do something spiritual. I ended up confessing in front of him. But I mortified these people and told him, I was like, I'm trying to do the right thing here. And I was a little out of my mind. My mom was dying at the time. And I go, I'm trying to do the right thing, but I really don't think this guy deserves it.

So anyway, he's in my trunk right now. And I can't figure out whether I want to let him go or beat the shit out. Are you in like an AA meeting? Yeah, at that time it was an AA. meeting yeah yeah did they think nobody snitched on me nobody snitched on me did they really realized like he's really got a guy in the trunk of yeah no they did realize terrified yeah they were terrified yeah those are the same people that wrote me when i was up in prison they're like they're so glad you're on your way to doing the right thing and they're very encouraging

i ended up going to n a though but but they were really nice people i still go over here and talk to them sometimes i would say sorry but um yeah i got offered a job at hazelden one time and the lady was uh praising me because i had to go in there and speak for a commitment you know like like you know bringing some hope to these people and stuff kind of like uh what you were saying you do with the you know telling people this is a crime you know this and that and i so i go in there and do that they offered me a job this lady's like singing my praises saying how great a guy am and one of the workers the woman that was in that meeting when i can she goes oh that's the guy that came to the meeting with the guy in his trunk and uh i never felt shame before because the people i hung around with

that wasn't a big deal yeah they laughed about yeah it was no no it was not a compelling story but did what these people i felt like oh man i was like i was like that was a misunderstanding total misunderstanding i mean he did not need to be there i didn't really think i should put him there but i had to anyway and then i didn't get the job so i didn't want the job but i liked when she was saying nice things about it made me feel pretty good so and then that made me feel pretty shitty it was the first time I ever experienced like shame and admitted it like usually I'd knock somebody out when I got any feelings like that I would just instead of working on myself I would just get rid of the people that that said bad things you know what I mean so after you got out of prison you worked on death row mm-hmm you got you got you got out yeah which was what the last this was that was the last time right that was last time back in 2008 I've been out ever since and you started you you lived on that guy's futon for a while no that was before oh yeah he died well when i got out of that bid he was been righting me the whole time this was after he helped me and in back in 2004 or

five when uh my friend was clean he helped me out immensely he planted ideas in my mind that didn't uh flourish until later but he wrote me during that whole bit and when i got out i said as long as i got my mom and this dude i'm good so i got out my mom said come home i said no I'm going to a homeless I said the truth is I'm homeless I need my inside to match my outside I'm not coming home and I built my way up from there

but when I said that all I need is this woman and this sponsor it was a sponsor at the time they both started dying of cancer at the same time and I was like if there's a god dude because I wasn't going to God

but if there is a God I was like this is pretty stupid you know I mean this is a dumb idea the only two people keeping me to be remotely safe and you're killing telling them both as like so something's like predescent for me to be a screw up that's how i started thinking but so anyway i'm going to hospice up in fort myires for rick and then i'm you know helping my mom on uh you know putting her she's just whittling away now she had she had cancer back

my second bid went through it and by the time i got a visit where i wasn't in the box she looked fine so i thought this was going to be that again she was 56 or so or something so i thought this was just going to be that again i was like i don't worry about we'll just do this chemo shit and you'll be good and uh and everybody got scared to tell me the truth like you know everybody kind of told me now you know you know and she didn't want to do it like in hindsight i could see she didn't want to go through that treatment she only did it because she was afraid i was going to go off and and do bad again i have been since i've been out of prison and talking to rick and dealing with him i've been doing pretty good. I started lifting stuff and putting stuff down and then I I worked for a company that

gave me four warehouses and then they put me in business because I ran his his stuff pretty good. So I ended up going into business for myself. This is the moving you were doing, you were moving. Yeah, I was working for a bunch of designers at first doing installs and and, you know, decking places out, putting artwork up and, you know, I work day and night just doing this. And then I do move jobs because the guy let me use two of his trucks at the time. He goes, yeah, just use him. And then he caught me in Tampa one time. He's like, I met in Naples, you know.

Right. I'm leaving the Tampa. I'm going, and I come right back and go to work. And next morning, so I work all day, then I work all night. That's how I paid off that jaw, the cop. I paid all, anything I owed. I never had credit at that point. I never had credit before.

So I had nothing there, but I had, like, hospital bills. I've been shot. I've been stabbed. So I had a lot of hospital bills. I didn't pay. I paid all of them. I paid everything. And my credits through.

the roof now but um but that's how i did it i work all day all night because i didn't like debt right i paid uh restitution anything i owed i paid and so i get to about four years of doing good and i realize my mom's not getting better you know she's whittling away it took 18 months for her to die but she's like whittling away in the last six months she was kind of like a like a vegetable like she was there but nobody was there you know she didn't want to do chemo i don't think so When I look back on it, they had this question, and I'm still out of my mind at this point. Even though I'm cleaning and doing the right things, I had no idea how off the track I had gotten with drug use and crime and all that stuff. So I couldn't pick up on normal things.

Like everybody else kind of read this and nobody told me. And I was maybe in denial about it. So I'm shooting towards her getting better. and they had this thing where they questioned me and they said what would you rather have for your mom? Quality of life or what was the other question? It was like two things and I said oh quality of life no doubt so they were trying to come to a conclusion of whether they should just let go and have the last few months

without this chemo and I was drawing it like you're going to do the chemo you're going to be great it's going to be quality of life right I totally misread the whole thing and And plus, there was a lot of fear. Like, without that woman, ain't nobody going to accept me. When I was wanted for murder, my dad was shot out. I was like, Dad, don't tell nobody I'm here. I was only in my house for a minute.

But everywhere I went, I was getting, they were all over. So my neighbor calls the cops. My dad's out there with a lawnmower, and he's a little off. He's like, oh, yeah, he's inside. My mom goes, he's not here. And I'm hiding mine in a shower curtain with a pistol like this. And I'm like, oh, God, please don't make me shoot this fucker. I said I'm not going to jail

I'm not doing this I'm telling you right now please make them walk away I'm a big dude behind a little shower curtain and it's only open like I didn't close it all the way because I didn't want them opening it

so I just did it enough to cover me I see his boot and he goes he's not here and he walks out there was 40 cops all around I would have been shot to death if I would have did something right there and I didn't know what I was going to do

but I wasn't going and I had a phone in my hand calling my buddy come get me and my mom's like you know pretty much lying she's lying for me yeah he's not here he's not coming here you know get out of my house and uh so when she was dying i was like ain't nobody on the planet going to accept me like that lady you know if i was wanted for murder she was asking what did you do to make them kill somebody it was your fault you know what i mean and and even though it wasn't good acceptance it was acceptance right you know so it was crippling too and it's funny because I never thought to do good or really work on myself until she passed you know what I mean

I would have loved to do it for her and I tried of my own will but it didn't really happen for me like I didn't put my back against the wall and say there is no choice I got to do good until I got that concept that whatever I do I pass down to my kid you know my actions um real quick we yeah I think we skipped a part of it was when you got you were in and died it and arrested for um for what a murder that yeah triple homicide right so what happened with that like what there was a guy john ballard he just got released too he's out um he actually asked me if i was going to hurt him and uh but uh he uh he i guess he don't look like me i don't think at all he's like a dumpy dude you know whatever so he gets he gets uh he's in there for a crack pipe or something he's got a year in the

county jail okay at this time i'm in jail and i'm uh i think i'm going to prison i can't remember while I'm there. I think I'm on my way to prison. So there's this guy called heart attack. We call him heart attack because he's always faking heart attacks. And my dad's in the block next to him. He's drunk. You know, and still, you know, making fake alcohol or whatever. And so they're in 4A and 4B, the misdemeanor and then the felony. This guy, John Ballard, is doing a year in the county for a crack charge or whatever. This is a year after the murders. I'm in... What was the murders? There were three people killed. Yeah, yeah. Beating what a bed posts and stuff there were um if you look up john bellard murders uh he he beat up his aunt or

something and two other people and they died yeah and they died but there was like 30 people saying i did it and i was like i wasn't even i don't even think i was in town at the time but i know i wouldn't beat up no woman or i just knew it wasn't me right yeah no matter how messed up i got i knew that wasn't me so you're in jail sorry so i'm in jail and i'm facing uh oh the armed robbery which i didn't do They had picked me up in St. Louis for the murders. I got shipped from the fugitive block in Clayton County to Naples, to Naples, back to Naples. So at that time, I was trying to, you know, be there for my kid because I knew I was going away for at least 40 years for armed because they were charging me with an armed instead of a drug dealer getting robbed. And I was like, I can't believe they're doing that.

So I called his lawyer down in Naples to retain them. Me and my dad are talking to him. And the guy snitches on him, he tells him where I'm at, the lawyer. And he's like a, he's like a well-known lawyer down there. He makes deals with the, it's very corrupt, very corrupt. Like he'll get a couple guys off and he'll give you this guy. Right. So I guess I was the guy who got giving up.

And he goes and tells him where I'm at. And so anyway, I end up getting sent down here. It takes about two months on Transcourt. And I end up in the county jail. And this guy, a heart attack is the roommate of the guy. who killed these three people and the guy's got like two days left on a year he's scot free nobody even thinks he did it he confesses to this guy who's a snitch and a you know fake heart attack guy right funny guy whatever you don't you know he wouldn't tell on people like me or my dad

or nobody right but he tell on a whatever to get out of trouble oh I was going to say a multiple murderer yeah yeah yeah so he well he didn't tell on him he wasn't going to tell on him because he was wondering but then he knew I was arrested for it So I'm in another block waiting to do a hair and blood sample and do a lie detector test for these murders. And he goes up and tells my dad, my dad's still, I guess he got like a little bit of wet brain or something. So when he stops drinking, he's still a little shot out.

Right. So a heart attack tells him, hey, Mr. Thayer, you know, this guy just confessed to the murders that your son's in the other block for. What should I do? He goes, if you're a rat, do what you do? I don't fucking know. He goes, you know, my dad's shot. out yeah so yeah so your dad my dad's your dad's telling the guy basically don't say anything

no he's saying that if you're a snitch you're gonna do what you do you know what i mean oh okay i thought he was saying all don't say anything like my fucking son's first you got a good job no my dad would my dad was a firm believer i one time handed him 180 year uh PSI for 11 sales and manufacturing charges before that CI disappeared or got killed or whatever and uh and he i handed it to him under the door and he looks at it he goes oh we got leapier coming up and you got three months in 180 years you could do it son he always believed in me you know i mean so he goes you want a cup of coffee and he hands me a cup of coffee under the thing at at this like he would do it with me like that that's a he would he just had full confidence i can handle whatever was coming down

the park so when this guy asked him uh i know it sounds like he's ruthless but it's you just got to know his sense of humor you know what i mean And he really had full confidence. I mean, from the time I was like three. He was just like, that's Dan the man. Let him do whatever he wants. You know, he was a little nuts. But anyway, so this guy tells him that.

My dad says, well, if you're snitched, go ahead, do that. And so he, he, it goes throughout the jail that we know it's John Ballard. Next to you know, I get transferred to the block. And he's like, hey, because I already did the hair and blood sample. They kind of knew I didn't do that. They were going to let me go, but they didn't let me go yet. So I ended up in the block with this guy. And he goes, hey, you're not going to kill me, are you?

And I was like, what? I said, who the fuck are you? I don't know who you are. And he goes, I'm the guy that you're in here for these murders. And I said, I should kiss you in the mouth. I said, I'm about to walk right now because I took a lie to attack and test and proved I didn't do the murder. They dropped an armed robbery, which I did do.

I said, you know, you're a piece of shit, but I ain't got nothing to do with you. You know what I mean? And so I left it. that and then the guy uh ends up beating the charges yeah he goes to prison for three murders i mean they had them dead the rights but they fucked up the thing so bad he ends up getting released like i just heard about it like a couple years ago but um anyway that's all sorry that's all uh in the past now but yeah i was there was like 22 people that signed things saying i did it and i was like this is crazy and then they tried to indict me on the

murder of the CI in my case and I was in jail when it happened. Like they were always trying to do stuff like that, arrest me for stuff and then. Why did the 20 people say you did it? Do you think it was just 20 people that, so they knew you? Yeah, yeah, they all knew me. I was actually hiding out. They were just trying to get you off the street. Yeah, yeah, I was a terror. So I was hiding out in the Everglades in Everglades City. And I know a bunch of people down there, but they all ratted on me. I was hiding out down there, except for like one. girl that I know now today she was a stand-up person she didn't say nothing you know but they

pretty much got everybody down there to I mean I it's funny there's statements that they wrote were like oh he's he confessed to this and he did that and then and anybody knows me I mean even if even if I did do something I wouldn't talk about it or nothing you know what I mean and that was because I was always you know worried about stuff like that even doing this like I always wonder I'm like, oh, man, what if they bring this up? And then I'm like, who gives a shit, you know? Well, the statute of limitations is, all these crimes are so fucking old. Yeah, unless you're saying I committed this murder doing this at this time.

Like, that's, or what is it? There's only two things with no statute of limitations, murder and espionage or something like that. Yeah, I think, well, any capital crime, murder, home invasion, stuff like that. Home invasion doesn't have a statute of limitations? I don't think so. You could check. I think because of it being a capital offense, like carjacking was for a while, and then they changed it. Because all those guys were getting killed down in Miami.

Okay. So now you got out. You started a moving company. Eventually you started moving company. Yeah. Yeah. I did it for about, let's see, 2008 to about a number of years I did it without being official. You know, I just do it for.

Get a truck. Word them out. Yeah. Yeah. I had a couple of trucks. and I was using those and then I was renting them and then I started

I was like you know what I need to make this official right I went got my LLC and then a friend of mine he's dead now too he was a good

yeah everybody everybody's crazy but he filed my stuff for me because I was intimidated to go down and it's funny I wasn't scared to you know

die all the time but I was definitely terrified the first time I got health insurance I didn't use it for a year I paid cash cash everywhere I went. And when they found out I had it because I was afraid to hand it in and then them tell

me something like I'm doing something wrong and I didn't have the right answers. So I just didn't use it. Yeah. So I wouldn't use it. And then a year later they found out, I asked this guy, I was like, how do you use this insurance? And he goes, you just hand the card to the lady and that's it. I said, get out of here.

Really? And so I went and I handed it to her. And she's like, oh, you've had this for a year. I could go back and, you know, I said, no, no, let me pay full price for my stupidity. It was like a couple thousand dollars for visits. I had like bronchitis or something. I would just pay cash. Yeah, because I just didn't, I didn't know what to say to it.

And I didn't want that, you know, what the hell you've been doing all your life type thing coming up, you know? Yeah, yeah, I didn't learn a lot of, you know, normal shit. I had to pick it up. Now I found out you can YouTube everything, which is embarrassing. I could have just been YouTube and all this shit. How YouTube? Yeah, you could YouTube everything. Yeah, yeah.

Just like when Colby came in and I said, how do you do this? Like I was literally, when you, when you texted me, I was about to YouTube something on Final Cut Pro. Right. That's what I'm yeah, man, it's incredible. I still call 10 people like now because I know everybody doing everything. So I call 10 people and I strike up a conversation and I'm trying to soak out the information of what I want. Right. While I'm talking to them.

So it's not just like I'm calling. And it's such a stupid game. I play and then eventually I'll just be like yeah how the fuck do you do this yeah and they'll be like why don't you just YouTube it I'm like shut up yeah oh I started doing it I'll YouTube stuff too I'll YouTube stuff as like I wait to the last minute to like call Colby yeah or call Danny yeah I'll call him and I'm like listen bro I tried like I want to let him know I tried yeah YouTube did it I did this I did I didn't call it because I don't want to be that guy let you get the thing you're like oh this fucking guy yeah he's always calling me asking

And then the worst thing is when they're like, okay, see the three buttons, click that, go down to, see that where it says that? And you're like, no. Yeah. Click that. Okay, we're done. And you're like, I'm such an idiot. Like, how did I not? You can't see it. You just can't see it. They're more practiced at it. Or I couldn't see it. Well, especially not even starting the process until you're 50 years old. Right, right. Yeah. Our brains are stuck. Right. What's intuitive to these guys. Yeah. Yeah. Still, yeah, when I was a kid. Did you ever see that video, there was a TikTok where an adult, basically, some guy who's probably in his 50s, goes to his two kids that are at 12 and 14 years old or something and gives them a rotary phone and says, give them the phone and says, dial this number. Yeah. And the discussion that they have and trying to do it and it's just like, it's out of their realm.

Yeah. It was kind of cool seeing them get stumped by that. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. That's me trying to use my iPhone. When I first got out of prison. I remember asking my daughter, how do you text? I was like, the silliest thing.

I was like, how do you text people? Yeah, I still don't like that. It always gets misinterpreted. You know what I mean? I got to write better. So. All right, so back to Ballard and beating that stuff. You know, it got me out of that trouble.

And then I'm trying to think. Well, yeah, we kind of jumped. around so then you eventually got out of prison you started the i started a moving company i started a moving company and now and a demolition i did a lot of demolition that's how i learned how to put stuff together was taking stuff apart and um yeah that's how i learned everything about construction was just destroying it um you know gently and i ended up oh i ended up demo in the prison that i first went to hendry correctional for a um uh it's kind of a secret but they they had like a they were teaching um what they call them communication specialists how to kill

people so they didn't get overrun like these these Canadian communication specialists they were they would get overrun by the enemy or whatever and get killed so these special forces guys were teaching them that so I demoed the prison and turned it into a playground for them and I wasn't allowed to take pictures that one but that was one of the biggest demo jobs I did and it was so strange being there at a place that I spent so many years at doing so much crazy shit and then being there running a crew of 32 guys and and just be able to come and go as I wanted to I mean the girl I was with at the time I had her on the razor wire fence he's like you would never touch that fence you know what I mean like I'm sitting there you know swinging

out of where like jumping on it and uh it was just a total different total different outlook you know from the hopelessness of being a youth. I didn't even know I was hopeless at the time, but being a youth and not being able to leave there and then running a crew and making really good money. Right. Yeah, good contract. It's funny.

It's always funny to my wife, you know, when we go to pick up her daughter, we drive right by Coleman. But the prison I spent, you know, 13 years and I drive by. It's like, I've never seen it from the outside. Yeah, yeah, you don't even know. You're like, that's what that was. That was a concrete factory.

I used to see this little building in the, you know. Yeah, a friend of mine from New York wanted to see the prison I was in. I was showing him Rayford. Right. And he goes, how come you don't know which way to turn? I'm like, dude, they never let us out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I could have been, like, you could have told me I was in Missouri.

Yeah, I only know I'm in Florida because my mom said the prison's an hour north of Tampa. Like, I don't know where I am. I've never walked out. I don't know what it looks like from the outside. Yeah, sensory depressive. Orvation or something. Your whole world is in this little tiny. Yeah.

When you see it from the outside, too, you're like, oh, that's so weird. Yeah, it was a gray day, too. I remember seeing the gun towers and everything when we went there. I was like, I don't know why you want to see this place, but you wanted to see it. Yeah, it was a pretty, pretty gloomy place. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, you know, we would be in the rec yard at the low.

Well, in the medium, too, actually, has happened in the medium, too. You'd be in the rec yard, and you could hear them. You know, because the prisons are so close together. Yeah. Right there. There's only maybe a parking lot or two between the two of them. And you could see like the guard towers and stuff from the low. You could see the guard towers.

And then, you know, every, you know, the difference between the low and the, and the, low and the medium and the penitentiary is, is that these guys are locked down half the year. Yeah. So they would let them out. And sure enough, within a day or two, it's, you know, you hear the, the sirens and get on the ground, get on the ground. And then all of a sudden you hear, you know, you pop, you hear the concussion grenades. And you're sitting on, you're, you know, I'm, whatever, I'm, you know, hundreds of yards away. And those concussion grenades make you drop.

You know, you're like, holy Jesus. You know, gush, gush, gush, and they're talking about you will be fired upon. You will be fired. I'm like, God, thank God I'm at the low. Yeah. You know, yeah. Those guys, they're crazy over there. Oh, man.

DeSoto was like that, too. It was like night and day, the separation, the guys that were able to work. South Florida too I remember they didn't have the what was that stuff the mental patients take Thorazine they ran out of it and these guys were like throwing guards like there were rag dolls in the dead

like super strength it was crazy and the whole block was going crazy you know one guy ran he jumped on the razor wire they had to use a helicopter Oh my God. Yeah it was nuts I was talking about the time you know I don't know if they were you know they eventually what it ended up entering in the last probably

10 years is, you know, that synthetic marijuana that, you know, they called Tucci. Yeah. And they, you know, and it obviously just makes these guys nuts. And I mean, they would strip down naked and they just start running a hole in their brain. Yeah, they start running around the compound. So you got eight, eight COs trying to grab some guy who's naked, you know, running around. And like you said, they got like, psycho strength. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, you know,

Like PCP used to do to make him like superhuman. Yeah, and they'd grab this guy and he'd be on the ground. And he'd be screaming, he's on fire. So you're like, you know he's insane. He stripped it. This is a grown man, just stripped his clothes off. Running around the compound with the cops, screaming he's on fire and trying to put out the fire.

And you're like, this is not going to end good. Right. And the other inmates would tell themselves like, man, he got a good batch. Yeah. That's what I want. Oh, yeah. That's what you want. What are you doing?

They're attracted to it like moths. to a flame. Yeah, you just don't know how to do it. Yeah. You don't know how he can't handle it. Yeah, yeah. That's a good batch right there where you think you're on fire and your superhuman strength. You'd walk in the bathroom.

They'd some guy would be on the ground flop around. Yeah. You're trying to swim like on the tile and you're like. That's the good stuff. Guys are like, man, that's that good shit. That's how they used to do with their heroin too. Somebody died from a bag. It'd be in the in the newspaper.

And there'd be a hundred people going to that bag. Just because that guy didn't know how to do it. But that would give you the... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It's a driving, like, you don't think. Like, you know what I mean?

These are people that are probably just as intelligent as anybody else, but you can't tap into your thinking ability. You're just obsessed. You're fixed on it. Right. Yeah. So it gets, like, gets more progressive and eventually you start running around like your own fire.

Just like a bunch of, like, When you were saying true crimes, I was thinking I'm not really qualified for true crimes. It was more reacting and needing stuff and just making dumb decisions. But there was a lot of like, you know, criminals, they were always a lot smarter to me. You know what I mean? Like, I was kind of like kicking the door and throw everybody on the ground. Right. Yeah.

I wasn't, I was, I didn't like stealing because if I robbed you, you knew I did it. You know what I didn't? If you didn't know I did it, then I had to. to walk around worried that you were going to find out and like I'm a punk I can't tell you that I took your shit you know what I mean like these were the stupid rules I started to form right being deranged you know what I mean that it was better to just let you know and then my conscience got so bad and there wasn't enough drugs to settle it I would have to talk people into being okay with me route you're okay with me taking this right like I would get it would

be deadly serious you know what I mean and I couldn't leave until I were convinced that you wanted me to leave what your stuff and the guy's five foot through five foot three looking up at you six foot five i mean there was all kinds of people yeah yeah yeah i'm i'm embarrassed you have to even ask me yeah i thought we were friends enough to know take the car too yeah yeah yeah it was they used to have some uh well in naples is a lot nicer but when miami is a little rougher but in st louis is rough but they would have these parties down there in marco island and they and they would just talk about me robbing people and I would be like you know this is not what I want to be known for at the time it was funny right then when you you know you get a little older

it's like this is ridiculous you know all I'm known for is just taking people's shit so you know you know the guy I forget his name like John Pulitzer or something um you know the Pulitzer prize yeah right so you know he's actually the inventor of gunpowder I thought that was the Is it, yeah, is it Pulitzer? I think it's Pulitzer. Oh, yeah, you're probably right. I read a story on DePont and how they started. They were just manufacturing it.

Right. So, I was going to say, so he, he, it was, and I could be wrong about the story, but I'm pretty sure I'm accurate. He, it was reported to the newspaper that he had died, but he hadn't died. So one day he reads the newspaper, and it's his obituary. Right. And what he reads is basically the man responsible for coming up with, like, gunpowder, which has, you know, destroyed more this than any, you know, is responsible for killings. Like, just, just butchered, you know, the creation of gunpowder. Right.

And he read it and he thought, this is my obituary. This is what I'm leaving behind. And then so he turned, right. So he turned around and came up with the, you know, like the, you know, like the, you. you know, Pulitzer Prize and what is it the wait, wait, what's the piece? What is it to be?

Nobel. Nobel, I'm sorry. It's Nobel, the Nobel Peace Prize. Not Pulitzer, sorry, the Nobel. Right, so then he came up and he funded like the Nobel Peace Prize and I'm sorry, not Pulitzer, I'm wrong. So the Nobel Peace Prize. So he spent the rest of his life like trying to clean up

what he had never really thought about. he just thought like I came up with this this this invention or this chemical or whatever this process and you know not thinking hey I made some money and this and not seeing how you know the effect that people were really looking at him and spent the rest of his life you know fixing that yeah yeah that's one of the the revelations I had was that I can't like I have a responsibility to do something to live to my potential that's what I learned from the guys on death row the ones that didn't have any more time right and they were waiting to die they they they They said that the difference between their heaven or how, the ones cutting themselves

and the ones that had this piece about them, was how much they lived to their potential, how much they help others live to theirs, and how they treated everybody. So I built my whole thing about, you know, my daughter only doing what I would tell her. It was just somebody I loved that I wouldn't give bad advice to. So I started taking it. And since then I've had, you know, hundreds of people, like all I had to do at first was just not punch a cop and everybody's like, Dan, really turned his life around. That's how low my bar was at first. But then, like, year after year, it's gotten, you know, to where, like, judges are,

you know, sending people incorrigibles or whatever, anybody even close to that, they somehow get a hold of me and I started working with them. And a lot of them work for me. But what happened was when I learned that lesson, I didn't have a life or death sentence. When they, when they transmitted that message to me and i seen the piece they had i did like you know like that guy you know he read his obituary and there was nothing he wanted to right you know be grateful about so i worked on i've been working on and didn't know it but it took about six years of doing it before i realized what i was doing and i was evening out the scales like you like you said clearing up the past and i you know i did i paid everything i owed i um you know i deal with people fairly um i got you know i

multiple things going on and and people count on count on me like you know a lot of people right you know all around the world pretty much I got like people that call and stuff like that and now I'm starting to travel a lot but one of the things I did want to emphasize is that I was deemed incorrigible by the state of Florida beyond correction and then I was deemed a sociopath or whatever one of those right nice titles and I was told I was bipolar and I was put on lithium and I'm not on none of that stuff and I'm not saying nothing's wrong with that I got a lot of mental illness in my family but I haven't needed anything just by taking an honest self-appraisal and doing my best instead of worrying about you know the results of

that right like they said leave live to your potential so every day every year I grow and my my network grows and the influence grows so my point to all that is I couldn't shake people no matter what I did some people liked me and wanted me around and I caused a lot of destruction right due to fear and and you know worrying about being found out and all this stuff I caused a lot of destruction today everywhere I go it gets a little better and that's possible for anybody I've done it with like hundreds of guys you do the life coach you yeah life coaching and then I well I sponsor people for free and then I life coach like families and stuff like that um that I just tell them if you get results And it's done better than my moving company.

Right. You know, and that moving company does really well. But, but yeah, there's, there's, it definitely, it wasn't my goal. It was just that you can't just work with one person because really it's the, the relationships all across the board. It's counterproductive. When you go to try to help somebody and everybody thinks he's the problem, well, all you had a part in that. You know what I mean? So it's hard to work with somebody, get them.

better than they go back into the environment and then they're sick again and it's and they become destructive and everybody's blaming them on how good they're doing or how bad they're doing when in reality it's it's uh they're comparing what they're doing wrong to what he's doing wrong so that looks bad like i used to keep a guy around me that stab people all the time because it made me look really good right you know i mean like but he was my friend but his main job was to look crazier than me so I looked kind of normal that's what I looked back on it I was like man and I couldn't find that guy anymore all right I got to the point where I was that guy that that I just couldn't find the guy anymore that made me look good yeah so I had to get

good it's like playing poker and there's always somebody's the fish and it's like if you can't find the if you can't figure out who the fish is you're in so yeah I just like to always end with that you know even though the thing go you know goes crazy or tons of stories of you know could be comical if it wasn't real and uh in my life you know what i mean and and it was at the at times comical but it was really just out of desperation and no not knowing i had a choice right hey i appreciate you guys watching i uh if you like the video do me a favor subscribe to the channel hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this uh leave me a comment in the comment section and uh i have a patreon you know

It's like 10 bucks a month. It's, that's nothing. And, yeah, thank you very much for watching and see you.