Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Death Row Inmate Shares Shocking Crime Stories Of His Past Life...

Episode Date: October 8, 2023

Death Row Inmate Shares Shocking Crime Stories Of His Past Life...

I've been involved in pretty much every crime out there. When I took stuff, it was the only time I could pay attention. I brought a guy in my trunk one time to a meeting that I was trying to do the right thing. So you wanted a guy to go to what, like an AA meeting? No, no, I was going to the meeting, but I was in the middle of Robinham and he wouldn't give me the combination. So I threw him in my trunk, and then I was debating whether to be violent or to go to the meeting and try to do something spiritual. I ended up confessing in front of it, but I mortified these people. Like, I used to keep a guy around me that stabbed people all the time because it made me look really good.

You know what I mean? But he was my friend, but his main job was to look crazier than me, so I looked kind of normal. You know, I'm in a prison inside of two other prisons, which house all the, you know, death row inmates and ones that didn't have any more time. Right. And they were waiting to die. They said that the difference between their heaven or hell, the ones cutting themselves and the ones that had this piece about them, Let me tell you about today's sponsor, ORA. ORA can identify data brokers exposing your info and submit opt-out requests on your behalf.

Brokers are legally required to remove your information if you ask them, but they make it super hard to do it. You can try ORA free for two weeks using my link. aura also does so much more to protect you and your family from online threats that you can't see it's really easy to set up so you don't have to download several different apps to get things like parental controls password management identity theft insurance and more you get everything at one affordable price let aura do the hard work of keeping you safe online so you can focus on other tasks with peace of mind you can either let people continue to profit off of you and your private information or you can go to aura.com backslash Matt to start your two-week free trial, also linked in the description below. So I grew up in Jersey. I grew up around a lot of people that were pretty laid back on laws and stuff like that. And my dad was a chemist, so we ended up in Newark and Bloomfield and Camden. You know, growing up there, his friend was a cop.

And I remember when I was a kid sitting in the back of the cop car and they're in there, robbing weed from the dealers just taking it from them, you know, the cop is rather? Yeah, the cop is. Yeah, and I'm in the back of the car. So I'm picking up on this stuff. I don't know why I'm in the back of the car down in East Orange at night, but he's a East Orange cop. And, you know, great guy. My mom called him Dennis the Menace.

I think it was Dennis. And I remember sitting in the back of that car thinking, these guys are in there. and somehow I knew they were taking stuff, you know, and Dennis was talking my dad into it, and he was like, I'm confiscating it, don't worry about it, you know what I mean? Like if it goes bad. Yeah, this is a legal thing. And then nobody said nothing about me sitting in the back of the cop car, and I'm like hanging out, you know, and I was having a good time.

And another time, he got asked to sit there and wait while a woman was dead, and they had to wait for, you know, something to happen. So he shows up there, he calls my dad over. and um these two were were clowns uh he goes yeah pick anything you want she's gone and you know so i go down in the basement i come up with shotgun i i want this how old are you yeah i was about eight yeah seven or eight years old but uh those are like the earliest uh memories of when i look back on it how laxed everybody was what and my mother you know she became a jehovah's witness and my sisters and they took all my my toy guns away so i had this like

fascination. Oh, man, I just had to have them. I was like, they broke them, you know, and it would, it would bother me. I remember being obsessed with guns. And I don't think I would have been if, you know, they would have let me have my toys and stuff like that. But, yeah, they took that away from me. And I remember, like, you know, getting that shotgun.

I was like, I want this. You know, and my dad was like, no, we're not taking that, you know. And, you know, just growing up, there was a lot of that, you know, they used to work for when my dad didn't have a, when the chemist's work would die down, he worked for these other guys and they had a limousine cab service what do you mean i mean chemist like i would think like he works in a lab or something uh well he made varnish uh he made Tylenol and all he was uh he went to night school to become a chemist and he was really smart like all the all the all the all my father's side were really really smart people usually what addiction or alcoholism

or something like that all the way up to like founders of west point in dartmouth college they were really smart people there's like uh but they couldn't do life, 100%, you know. And my father was actually a good, you know, goodhearted dude, you know, but serious drinker and didn't seem to have much of an impact, but he blew up, the plant blew up that down in Newark that he was working at, and he was in a coma for a couple years. And it wasn't his fault, but he was near it. Yeah, he was in it.

And he was in a coma for a number of months, but a good friend of his, you know, he died that and um and when he came out of that he went from a like a functional alcoholic to a to a dysfunctional one i guess you would call it so there was a lot of me running you know when he came out of there he came out kind of weak and decrepit so i figured i had to be the man of the house i bought my first gun at 11 i worked for uh i worked for a rubbish removal company which is gangster owned and uh you know it wasn't like the uh you know like a flashy gangster it was more like just businessmen yeah yeah did rubbish removal and they they were serious but they paid me pretty good so i'd show up every day and um my mother i remember her thinking

my my way of looking at things was getting corrupted by the by the people i hung out with you know i learned at an early age violence took care of a lot of stuff um one time they charged me too much i was a kid doing rubbish removal probably illegal now i think about it was like 11 or something lifting i was like 220 six two you know what i mean at that time At 11? At 11. I remember in sixth grade, I was 220 and 6.2. I'm 6.5 now in 350.

But back then, I remember being a big kid, and I had no problem doing this work. Right. And so they were giving me like $100 a day cash during the summer. It was giving me $60. And then he said, I buy you lunch. And then after the first day of buying me lunch, or like 60 hot dogs. I don't know what it was. He's like, I'm going to give you $100 a day.

You buy your own fucking lunch. He goes, excuse me. I mean, is it okay? Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. So, yeah, I thought I got a raise. And so yeah, we're working in Summit, New Jersey is kind of like a rich area. Right.

I'm going to buy a tuna sandwich because I'm on lunch break. So I buy, you know, tuna sub. She charges me like 18 bucks for it or something. Something crazy. So he comes in there and just starts throwing shit around and you ain't going to charge this kid that much money for, you know. And I watched how they gave me the refund and let me keep the sandwich. Right. And I started getting the.

impression that if you just go and throw a big enough tantrum people just give you what you want right but i started digesting that type of information and um it did not help me when i moved to florida my mother seen where it was going my dad had gotten better but with the being blown up but he uh gotten worse with the drinking so she moved this down here and at the time 30 or is it 35 years ago now uh 36 years ago the uh naples florida had a thing with single parents that just didn't want that here you know and she had we had three of us living down there and she kind of picked the place off a map and um and sold the house up there and moved down here so immediately i had i had a pretty good first year i did high school and all that not too much um not that i

can remember you said something about stealing when you were little i remember one time taking my my uncle had a bunch of crew grants that fell out of his pocket and i took them and i went to go buy candy at the store around the corner they call up and say hey your son's got about two thousand dollars in gold trying to buy a snickers bar you want to come get this or whatever he was a nice guy he was but i remember when um when i took stuff it was the only time i could pay attention you know what i mean like it wasn't like i like taking stuff because i knew i it felt like weird it felt like i had to take a shit or something like you know what i mean i didn't like taking stuff right but it was the only time i was hyper uh sensitive to the moment like it was the only time i wasn't

living in my head it brought me to attention okay yeah yeah if you're getting caught so that was something that it was kind of like an adrenaline rush yeah well it makes you pay attention like you when you're afraid to get caught focused yeah yeah and i never am focused on the moment until these things happen and then you know with drinking too that happened uh with that too you got to be in the moment not be all self you know obsessed but uh but i used crime as a as a way to get in the moment And I didn't know it at the time. You know what I mean? You can't figure that shit out.

But in hindsight, you know, he's sitting prison enough of years. You start looking at stuff. You're like, what the hell was I doing? Yeah, you do a lot of that. How did I get here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did I end up in the... I don't feel like I belong here.

Right. I notice a lot of these guys keep coming back. How do I not do that? Right, yeah. How do I not do that? So I did a lot of that. But, yeah, coming down to Florida, I did pretty good. My first year, I had something to obsess about.

It was wrestling. Down here, they made me wrestle. up there I box and played football but down here I played football wrestling and I even did track just because I needed something because my mind was going crazy we went from high like sensory you know you don't ever have time to think and and things are always going on people breaking in the house you know Newark was a little crazy right but um when you're down in florida 35 years ago it's like dead silent you get a slower way of life yeah you can hear your brain yeah you can hear your brain Yeah, you can hear your brain working.

So I got into trouble that first year. Actually, my wrestling coach predicted it. And I had one state and regional, my first year of wrestling. I did really good. I was, but I was like 315 pounds solid. And anybody in my weight class was like kind of round fat. You know, I snapped one guy's rib. They shouldn't have been wrestling.

They were just big guys and they threw them in there. And, yeah, I got drunk. night before regionals I got this big competition the next day and I go out and sneak out and get drunk and nobody would do it with me so I got some guy to buy alcohol got drunk came into the thing and I'm and they hand me a thing of noodles and garlic to you know get your energy up about the shit my pants I was like what the heck and I'm in this tight-ass leotard I'm a big dude right so I'm like man I got to get I got to get this done with it so I get in there and I turn cross-faced the guy and I snap his rib he starts screaming And I'm like, are we done? They said, yeah, and I ran, and I'm trying to rip this thing off. They never had one that fit me anyway. And I run to the bathroom, and I'm like, you know, it's really tough to get out of that thing fast. But I don't know why the night before I had something to do, I went and got drunk.

It's like I tried to make it more challenging for myself. But these led on to that summer. It wasn't because you were just anxiety and you were like trying to root. I don't think so. I just wanted to do something. I wanted something different. Like, yeah, I'm doing all this stuff. but I need a release.

Okay. Yeah, and I need something different. And it was, you know, it was just the beginnings of kind of living outside of society, but at the same time, I'm a hypocrite because I'm living in society. Right. You know what I mean? So the end of that year, my wrestling coach, we ain't going to have a team next year. I said, coach, I'm a freshman.

This is my first year here. I just won just about everything. And you guys just taught me all this stuff. He goes, oh, you'll be in prison by next year. I was like, what? I was like, you know, and then at August, when I was sitting in prison, I was like, is the guy I fucking profit or what? You know, how did he predict that?

Like, everybody could see that. Like, I had limitless potential. And then I was a hopeless, you know, special case or something. And I would get those conflicting looks. Right. And I didn't know what that was. And I was sitting in there for the first time. You know, some cop, he harassed me, and I spun on him real quick and hit him.

And it just, I must have just hit his jaw just right because it broke. I had to pay that, you know, I had to pay for that. And yeah, they ended up giving me five and a half years. I've never been convicted in nothing. They never did nothing more than that, like, you know, taking money. Okay, so I let's go back to that. So how, I don't understand that he, you're a high school student. Yeah.

And a cop just walked up to you and started giving you a hard time. Oh, no, that's, that story was I was leaving at like 1.30 in the morning from a girl's house. Okay. And they wanted, they said I was loitering and prowling. And at the time, I didn't even know what the hell that meant. Right. You know, and I was like, I don't know where you're talking about. I already loitered and proud.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was leaving. I'm done. And they said they wanted to call her. And I was like, there ain't no way you're getting me in trouble with her and her dad. I was like, dude, I'm going home. I was like, you do what you want. And I went to walk away.

And apparently that's a bad thing to do. Right. You know what I mean? Because at the time, I was just a cocky, you know, I didn't know I was cocky, but I was like, this is what I'm doing. And I started doing it. And he horse-crawls me, like, pulls the back of my shirt and yanks me back. And I just spun, and I didn't think I just reacted. And, yeah, I spun and hit him.

And then next thing you know, I took off running. Next thing you know, they're all at my house. They're arresting me for, what was it, aggravated, a solid battery on a Leo or something in the law enforcement officer? And I'm like, ah, so I go to court. My uncle's, he still owned a law firm at a time in New Jersey. And I called him and asked him what I should do. And he's like, just tell the truth.

it's a fight you know whatever you're gonna get some trouble he's like just tell the truth and I was like all right yeah I said you're the professional but he did he bonded me out and he thought if I just told the truth I'd be a kid I get a smack on a wrist or maybe something but uh they said yeah five and a half years good luck son and is what they told me and when I told the judge I said your honor I said this was nothing more than a fight I said he started it you know and I ran home oh they gave me a fleeing and a looting too and uh and I was like Like, the only reason I have a crime is because you guys were harassed. You know, I had all, I was just, it was just crazy to me.

And so my mother's in the back and I don't know it. And he says, good luck, son. I was like, yeah, thanks, dad. And I'm being a smart ass on top of getting this five and a half years. I find out my mom's in the back crying. I was like, ah, shit, I didn't know she was there. And, excuse me. So, yeah, I end up getting sentenced as a youthful offender.

And as soon as I get to DOC, they won't recognize my youth. full offender status they they sentenced me as an adult right they changed it from they said that they're allowed to do that because you know they're in charge of housing you yeah how they looked at you and said though we can't put him in we can't do that so they sent me that yeah they sent me to a prison i ended up about two years in i was collecting for guys because i didn't have nobody sending me money so guys would pay me to collect for them i would get stuff and and uh and i was pretty comfortable and then this guard tried me and i and it was just too high one day and I ended up hitting him knocking him out and it was not good they gave me two more years

after that yeah so yeah I come out of prison I'm pretty much hating the cops now or all authority and there was no reason for that but it was just like a blanket hatred because I felt like I've been kind of done wrong right taking no responsibility for the part I played well I was going to say too you know the problem with moving across the country is that that what's acceptable in one part, I don't think a lot of people realize this, that even in the federal system, you could get arrested in California for methamphetamine,

manufacturing methamphetamine, and get a couple years. Yeah. Same thing in a different part, still federal system in a different part of the country, you know, they'll give you 15 years. You're like,

well, you know, but it's just, that's why they're, that's why the states are in control of themselves and their own sets of laws. And that's why even the, And the federal system is broken up into districts.

Yeah. Because every district is slightly different. Right. You know, and I was going to say, and you're moving from an area of the country where they would probably shrug it off as being just a kid, you know, who, you know, punched the cop. And it went wrong and whatever. And he took off running. He was scared or whatever.

And they might have been like, hey, you know, there's a higher level of violence in this area. So we don't consider that as serious of a crime. Yeah. But in Florida, 30 some odd years. years ago. It's a much different environment and respect of the law is a huge thing. Right. And so, yeah, so I can see you coming down here thinking, well, this isn't that big of a deal. And in Florida, they're saying, oh, no, it's a huge deal. Yeah. Even the way you talk to the cops. Yeah. You could talk to the cops a certain kind of way, maybe in New York that you come

down here and they're not going to take any shit. No, not at all. Not at all. So, so, yeah, no, it's like night and day when I, because I, I remember cops where I was from, they would take their badge and gun off if there was a person who was, you know, being belligerent and wanted to fight, they wouldn't make it like a charge. They'd make it like a fight, you know. They'll just shoot you here. Yeah, no, here they don't play. And they were very much like that 35.

They're a little better now. Actually, there's a lot. I'm actually friends with a lot of the same judges that try to give me life send people to work for them, you know. So I know they've changed and grown a little. The one judge, her dad, tried to give me life. And it was funny. I was sitting at a function.

And the mom of the judge, the woman judge, is sitting next to me. And then her husband, the other judge's dad, he tried to give me life. And she asked me, she goes, oh, how do you know my daughter? And I was like, ah, well, I said, well, your husband tried to give me life in prison. Your daughter sends people to work for me and says, you got to go around this guy. I said, so, you know, kind of like part of the family. She starts laughing. She goes, yeah, he was a little rough, you know.

But that's what I was, you know, they weren't getting my sense of humor. Right. Yeah, they definitely weren't. Yeah, they didn't have a sense of humor about it. And they were kind of ruthless. And but like you said, they had a certain way of doing things that worked for them. And I come here, like, you know, screw Florida. I'm from Jersey, not knowing, you know, just being a kid and, you know, just being cocky.

And it took me years to catch up on that, though. It took three more prison bids. And, like, finally, I realized I was like, you know, these people ain't playing down here. They're trying to give me life for 20 years now. So in the first prison, your first prison sentence, you ended up hitting the guard. You got an extra two years.

How much total did you end up doing on that? I ended up all it was doing day for day. I went in when I was 15 and got out when I was 20, just turned 22. Yeah. Holy shit. No time off at all? Yeah, well, every time I got a little bit of, they had this thing called CRD at the time.

They were giving guys like a year a week, but I couldn't get it because I had a violent charge. Then they would have another thing called like 60, 60, 20, or 6040, I don't know. They were giving out all this stuff that just didn't apply to me. And then every time I got a little bit of hope of doing the right thing, I had to bust somebody up or do something that it took all that away. I spent a lot of time in the box. You know, it was always getting everything just kind of revoked. There's no air, AC in fucking state prison. Oh, no, it's horrible.

Yeah, they got these fans. And when you're in the box, even worse, you got like a little window. At nighttime, you're like grateful for a little breeze. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's rough. You can go and take a shower. You come back. You're still drenched.

Yeah, it's not cool. At that time, I remember hearing about guys in the feds thinking, man, I wish I can go there. you know and i you know because you hear you got ac and then jobs that pay like i was telling you on the phone and you know you know i know it's only like 10 cents an hour but it was something you know well listen there were guys that would you know they'd have to do like state time and then they have to come do federal time like go straight from state to you these guys would you couldn't you couldn't you could knock the smile off their face for six months they were so they were so happy they were like bro you got ac the food's good and they were just so ecstatic of right you can you can you can

watch movies you can go to the rec yard and do this they got this they got you know you're just like this guy's nuts yeah you're telling me i can go back for seconds right now yeah you can go back for a second yeah they're not going to say nothing no like you know no you know and then they get there they start eating yeah like looking for the guards you're like bro nobody's going to kick you out three minutes here you can sit here for two hours if you want and eat are you joking yeah you know so yeah yeah it's like a vacation i heard you know but uh but uh but A lot longer stays, I heard, too. Oh, yeah, it's outrageous.

You'll get 10 years, and you get two years in the state or 10 years. Right. It's funny, my mom sent me an article when I was in prison that's called Bring Back the Lash. Right. And they had done a survey of, I don't know how many, let's say, a thousand inmates or something. Right. And they were saying, would you rather go to prison or get, be basically taken out into like the town square and whipped with a lot, you know, like, like we'd rather do five years or get 50 lashes listen everyone it was like 100 it was like

out of a thousand there was like 995 that said to lash me yeah I would rather be lashed and it's not that it's you know it's just that you know you I'll heal from the lashes but I'm I can't get another five years off my life you know what I mean so you know so when I when I joke about how yeah it's way better than the state but the truth is is that people would rather be taken out and just lashed yeah I don't have to go to prison at all right right Right, right. Yeah, one day it was too much. You don't realize when you're younger, like, you're giving up 15, like when my mom passed, that's when it hit me that. I spent 15 years away and didn't have that time with her, you know, just phone call. Every time she came to visit, I was in the box, so they would send her away. You know what I mean? There was always, there was never not complications for all that time. And then I didn't expect her to die so young, but that's when I felt it. You know, when you start thinking like, that. It's like, oh, man, you know, because when you're young, you're like, ah, it's no big deal, you know? I didn't really think about it too much. It was kind of like, like I said, it was like

a camp for me. You could take out your anger on anything and nobody cares. And as far as I knew, it was pretty much like a lazy man's heaven. Like my dad said, when I was a kid, I call, he called from Caldwell jail one time. He was like drinking and driving or something. And he goes, what's it like in there? Daddy goes, oh, it's a lazy man's heaven. And it's true. It's like you've got no stress. Well, I didn't have any stress. But a lot of people, you know, they get in there and they, you know, they think it's so horrible.

But I was like, no, out there was horrible growing up. Right. Not knowing how to do stuff. And I don't know. I got accustomed to it. Until I learned how to live out here, I didn't know how much I missed, you know. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I did not know. Compounded ignorance, they say. Yeah, I get out here. And it's like, it's amazing. how much free entertainment there is out here. It's just like, like you want to watch, if you want to watch Walking Dead in prison,

then when the sheet comes out, you write on the sheet, hey Saturday, Matt Cox, he wants, I want to watch this. And then, you know, you're basically divvy,

and let's face it, if a guy who's six foot two walks in and says, we're not watching that shit. Yeah. And turns the channel, what am I going to do? Yeah. I'm like, yeah,

of course. I don't know why I even put it down there. Yeah. Of course we're going to watch fishing. Yeah. I love fishing. Yeah. so um but yeah it's it's like you come out here like you've got you got you got everything's just

you know i understand there's advertisement but it's essentially free you could turn the channel when you want like it's you know it's it's it's just such a compared to prison it's just such a joke living out here like yeah it's almost like uh like a stimulus override like uh as long as you want as long as you want to work yeah yeah yeah got to work yeah it's one thing i thought was going to be rich when I got out of prison in 08 and I was like I'm going to be rich because I don't have a $5,000 a day drug habit and you know I'm picking the money is you're going to start pouring in any minute now I was like I think I got to get a job right there's nothing going on here I start picking furniture up putting it down you know eventually turned it into something but so first

prison sentence you get out yeah and at that point I had never you know I drank a few times but I never really got into using anything I I've been stabbed a couple times and I got some pain pills and um you know and and pain pills feel nice you know and so i started finding stuff that felt pretty good you know and um and that was uh due to the anger i had too because i got out and started playing semi pro ball and i remember like i would trip on acid and play semi pro ball and it was crazy it was like seeing the craziest stuff and i and i loved it i was having fun with it i don't know how good i was but i got like picked up by a couple pro teams like that wanted me to come playing and I'd get indicted on something.

Our team was like 12 convicts and a cop, I think a cop was on our team too. They made him quit. But he's like, you can't be with all these guys playing football. We're in Overtown in Miami. And, yeah, they're like, no, you can't hang out with these guys. But I started getting involved with all these different things. When I got out of prison, I had friends over on the East Coast. And, you know, I had all these people in Naples that wanted drugs.

And I had friends I made in the East Coast. I was like, man, I know we're all. this stuff is, you know, so I started bringing acid over and Coke and all kinds of stuff. And I never really messed with anything hard until, like, slowly but surely it started, you know, partying a little more and a little more. At first, it was just a way to make money and it helped my friends out. And I kind of felt like I was screwed over. So I had the right to do it. Right. Yeah, I felt entitled to selling drugs because you took away any chance I had to getting, you know, no response, still taking no responsibility for anything. Yeah. It's justifying. No, justifying,

and, and eventually, like, really crazy. You had, you throw a bunch of drugs on that, and it just, it makes for a wild, you know, story that you don't really remember, like only in bits and pieces. But, uh, I knew, I remember going to prison a lot. That was it. And then I would get out, run hard, and end up back in prison but I've been involved in pretty much every crime out there shorter like you know messing with kids

or anything like that I pretty much got everything you know what I mean from kidnapping to you know whatever okay so how did you what was the second prison

the second prison bid was about four years and I actually went to to a prison that had AC. That was nice. It was a privately owned prison. George Wackenhood owned Moorhaven. Not too far from here, I don't think. But anyway, I end up there for four years. And that was for 11 sales and manufacturing heroin charges that they dropped nine of them. I could have beat all of them. But the CI that was in my case that set me up, he got his head blown off while I was in county jail that's upsetting yeah yeah I you know I didn't wish that on

him but he was snitching so you know people deal with things things happen yeah yeah so I end up going and there was one my buddy pex who he got 30 years they found a couple of usies and kilos at his dad's house it was his stuff he went and took the blame for it and got 30 years and he asked me to make sure these kids didn't get you know messed up or anything his two kids with this girl and uh and so i was chilling watching over her she gets a cop to come sit down and buy stuff i was like i don't know this guy i'm not selling them nothing and so she did it right in front of me and i could have beat that charge too but she would have lost the kids so i took four years on the house just so she didn't catch that charge when they asked you know when he said uh when he

said she handed it to him i said i handed it to you i put that there i made her do that you know And so they got happy with four years because they were about to lose their whole case. Right. The CI got killed and then they didn't have much there with the thing because I never handled none. But I ended up taking that one. And I ended up in a pretty decent prison and a work release center. It's crazy how I ended up in work release because you're not supposed to go there with my kind of stuff. But I did end up going there.

And a friend of mine gave me a job over in Lauderdale at Pompano at the Work Release Center. And they tried to give me the rest of my time on paper. And I was like, nah. I said, I just did four years. I'm not doing whatever they called it at the time. I think it was called CRD or something, control release dates. And you have to report and all this stuff. So I was like, nah, I'm not doing that.

Send me back. And Joe, my buddy Joe, he just passed away about a year ago. It was real sad. But he was working with me. And then he had a heart attack. But he was a guy from Jersey City. That whole family died. But they all came down here.

One of them, I don't want to skip around too much. But anyway, he gives me that job. I tell him to send me back behind the wall because I'm not doing any paper. Now, at this time, I had hired 11 guys underneath me. They're like, you're not going anywhere. You're going to finish this. And you got your two, you're getting too many people. You know, I was getting the full 209 a week you give them out of your paycheck is like the maximum.

I had 11 guys doing that. So they didn't want to lose the income. So I was like, well, I'll be in treasure. Island down 130 Miami tomorrow at a strip club. I said, you can come get me if you want to. I said, but I'm not, I'm not doing no paper. And they did. They came and got me. They said, you better not. I was like, all right, I'm telling you. And I was hardheaded like that. I couldn't, I don't know why I couldn't do paper or, but I just felt like they got enough out of me. Right. And I always felt kind of entitled to some kind of rights. And maybe I was, maybe I

wasn't but I was like over the top with it like if you if you pushed it I'll push it with you and we can go all the way to the bus out so they sent me back to south florida and then to desoto and uh I did the rest of my time and got out how much time uh that time I did about five total with the year of paper I was supposed to do on paper so I got four I did four in right then I went to work release and then I would have had a year on that paper or whatever so you said I'd rather just be behind that Yeah, and then I went back to DeSoto and I ended up leaving there. That was a medium, maximum, maximum security.

And, yeah, I was in and out of there in Hendry back in the 80s and 90s. What was the kidnap? You said they were... Yeah, well, I would take drug dealers. Like, I got my... Eventually, when I started using drugs, I was using so much because of my size and my tolerance went right through the roof. I had got stabbed. And, oh, and then I had a gallbladder operation.

and they gave me these pills. I really liked them. So I called in the doctor, and I was like, yeah, I spilled them down the sink. He goes, nobody ever spills the antibiotics. He goes, how come they always spill the pain pills? I was like, I don't know, man, but I need more. They're so tiny. Yeah, yeah, they were good.

And I remember feeling like I want to feel like this all the time. And I was pretty much hooked at that point. So anyway, my drugs got worse. And the thing about drugs is you could do whatever you want and you ain't got to deal with your conscience. when you just, you know, use drugs. So my tolerance went through the roof because I pushed that envelope all the way. And so I couldn't afford the drugs I was doing.

I didn't have a job. I couldn't sell drugs anymore because I would do them all. So I just started robbing drug dealers. And that was going along pretty good. You know what I mean? Of course. Of course. That's the logical.

Yeah. That's what I came up with. Yeah, yeah. I'm figured they're doing wrong. I'm doing wrong. we'll just see who's better at it, you know? And I didn't care. I just like, so one time that I told Julian is one time the DEA caught me on camera,

they were, they were watching these guys, and it was on New Year's Eve. And I had a guy with me, my boy from Jersey City, that he was on escape from Rawway. And he was down here, and he tells me this guy, what was his name? He was like a dude who did five years for armed robbery. that's all he told my boy so he came with us and he and we only had one gun so he held the gun i said look dude i'll handle throwing people around all that if anybody pulls a gun and shoot him right and so he's like yeah i got you now he never told the story of what that arm robbery was it was a finger under the shirt trying to rob a drug store for some pills so the guy was a punk right

you know what i mean like like he was just uh he was an idiot yeah yeah he wasn't an arm robber and my and i couldn't believe Walt just like took his word for it and um so anyway i go i so he knocks on the door he gets the guy to open the door puts the gun in his face the guy starts closing the door on him i go what are you doing i said shoot that mother right you know and you wouldn't do it so i ripped the door open i picked the guy up threw him through a table the whole time this thing is on being watched and i'm like and i didn't know this but i go in there i get everything i get out of there uh we jump in a car and the guy's like this is like a comedy now because he doesn't know how to ride a stick he jumped in the seat it's a stick you know and he's going rah and I'm going what are you doing he goes I don't

know how to ride it I said what are you doing that seat and I throw him in the back seat and I jump in and I you know I got us down around the around the way and I pull right up on a cop too it was weird and I couldn't figure out where the lights were that I came out of prison they started doing this thing where you turn the yeah yeah and I was like Like looking for the lights. I'm like, we used to pull it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you pull this thing out.

I'm looking for that. And he's like, and so I flip the lights on. I'm right behind this cop, flip them off. And I said, is that the lights? And I'm sitting there flashing a cop. And, you know, he don't, I guess he don't give a shit. So he takes off. I take off.

Two weeks later, this kid who's under Savannah, not a kid, but he's a man, he calls my boy and goes, you ain't going to believe this. I just been indicted from the DEA. and they've been watching my house and they've seen Dan Thayer come in there and rob me and they won't do anything about it. They told me, we know who that is,

we don't care. So I took that as, now my boy was like, so wait a minute, you were trying to snitch on my, you know, he's a good friend of mine. Right. He's like, oh, he robbed me

and he doesn't know that my friend set this whole thing up. Right. All right. So the dude's like a little, you know, whatever. And he's a mark. And so he gets all mad at him wanting to stab him.

because he's trying to snitch on me but then he tells me the story and I'm like, so wait a minute so the DEA don't care that I robbed drug dealers? So that's just cart box? Oh man, I just went all out like I started going to different states

and all kinds of stuff and just setting up, you know, you know, not trying to hurt people but sometimes it'd get a little crazy but yeah, I remember one time trying to hit a house and the real DEA showed up and I had a girl on the inside on locking the door and everything in my

and I finally brought a friend of mine with me he wanted to go with me and I knew he wasn't a snitch he did he did time before and stuff so I was like yeah you can come with me so we're in the woods I got DEA drab on like I'm trying to look like a you know official and uh and so I got the woman about to open the door next to you know they're real the real people hit it and he goes the real DEA hit that house they ain't got had stacks and stacks of cookies and cocaine and cooking up all kinds of stuff and uh he goes what do we do I said we leave just like we're out of here that was was the most sensible thing I did in that period of time because I would have went to I

got shot to shit I'm like oh yeah I'm just taking the evidence get out of the way guys you know I didn't have that kind of you know that's like a like a real ballsy person I didn't have that much you know if I can't slam stuff around and whatever I I just yeah I was like we leave now and he got busted that guy got busted but so that went on and on like we went um it's funny that guy too he got clean for like a seven-month period he's dead now too but um pretty much everybody knows dead i'm gonna say yeah so what i don't okay so well how does the kidnapping charge come in so i mean oh no charge for getting that well uh no i never got caught for getting that oh okay i wait you might have to edit

that i never been well yeah i've never been uh i've been arrested for murder and didn't know it uh died it on six different homicides that you know when you were talking about the guy being in jail and and sitting next somebody somebody confessed to the murders that I was in jail for now I had at that time I had arm robbed a drug dealer right in front of the police station beat them right in front of the police station they had me dead the rights right they arrested me for arm robbery of a drug dealer right couldn't believe it I was like nah I was like the DA doesn't care about this type of stuff they told my buddy yeah yeah they told my buddy they don't give a shit yeah I'm an idiot you know so so they end up they offer me a deal saying if i did this uh lie detector test

and and did this hair and blood sample i wouldn't they wouldn't convict me of the armed robbery which i did do right in front of the police station like the guy i robbed okay so i don't i don't after the dea thing yeah yeah this you're still continuing to rob places oh yeah rob drug and how long does that go on uh i don't know for years like i would get caught for stuff but I would like it would be stupid things you know what I mean besides the murders and I had a well I had a home invasion too but there was like you know I would get away with a lot of stuff I walked away from a home invasion in 94 which they you know really screwed up but I'm grateful you know but I would get stuff like that in in tying into rob and drug dealers like you know what I mean like there was a lot of excess damage they couldn't get me for the things I really did but they would get me for a bunch of other stuff right yeah so we can't get him for the home invasion right we can't get him because we pulled his car over and he did have

drugs on him yeah oh yeah all the time I was always getting caught with drugs on me anytime they searched me I always forgot I had something in my sock the last bit I did was because I had a Xanax in my sock and I just threw out three guns I was like oh man I really thought I got away with some right trying to give me life because of the priors and all the, you know, they re-sentence you here over and over again. And they use a point system. Well, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, point system. So, yeah, I had too many points and judge was trying to give me life at that last time. But that's when I ended up with the Death Rogue being a... So what happened with that? So let's get the, that's what, your last lengthy prison sentence? No, that was only a couple years. I had like two years.

the judge offered me the judge said why didn't I giving you life today I said well so I understand how did you get arrested for that oh I got arrested what was the crime what I had I was out at a house I was loading up somebody's tools and I remember them and I was like because I was on Xanax right and when I'm on Xanax

I start just loading stuff up to go sell it and I don't know what the hell's wrong with me but on Xanax it's like it tells you the dumbest shit to do right and I remember loading up the tools at this house and going what we can get for this he goes yeah I bought them they're my tools I was like don't worry I'll break you off like there was no sense to my thinking there was I'm telling the guy that that's letting me chill at his house and get high that I'm loading this stuff up don't worry I'll break you

off for selling your stuff right and in my mind I'm thinking this is a come up but he should be grateful you know and this is how crazy I was at the time and so I dip out and somebody talks me into going and getting them cocaine at like two in the morning and he's dead too now but him and his girlfriend start bickering and I can't handle that shit it bothers the hell out of me so I told him I said you know what you two get the fuck out of the car

they're like this is my car I said well not right now I'm going to get you this coke you're getting out so I left him at a gas station I got three guns on me a crack pipe Xanax in my sock which I had a script for but they're not supposed to be out of the bottle anyway I'm driving up the road I'm like two minutes away from going to get coke

and the cops start going behind me and I'm like shit I can't get caught with these guns so I start throwing them out on 41 you know 41 runs all the way up yeah Tamiami is Tampa to Miami but did yeah so I'm on Tamiami Trail throwing guns out heading you know head and you know head knees I get rid of the guns they don't seem to see them I have the one thing in my sock I forgot about the crack pie that kind of fell down so I get a paraphernalia and one pill and the judge tries to you know throw light I've been on bond going to court and uh I kind of carjacked those two people when you look at it like like that's it wasn't like you know yeah but I did throw the guy out physically and told him to shut his bitch up like you know

that's how I was at the time I was like shut her up dude it's gonna be it's gonna be hard to walk away from some people could would consider that as car yeah yeah so it was like you know are sticklers yeah well the people that are real sticklers and they like to uh did they call the police and say this guy just took all with my car I don't think so I don't think this dude would have did that maybe she did i don't know but they were on me like pretty quick and and plus i couldn't drive yeah it was like all zanaxed out and i remember like going to jail that was the the thing i was telling you about they still did ink at the time right and i just was so high i kept rubbing my face so when they did the ink i was just like ah i'm tired let me go to lay down you know

and i did i wanted to go to sleep i was so tired and his mugshot has like all this ink all over his face looks like i'm all bruised up i had people calling me are you all right i'm like i'm fine dude I was just I got ink all over my face so it uh yeah it was a it was a rough night i knew i shouldn't have went out that night but um it there's always a gut to tell you do not go and i went and i blame them for that yeah that was their fault they got thrown out of their own car i got in trouble and um so anyway uh that last thing i'm on bond and my dad at the time says uh oh my friends you know from like the 60s or or 70 he goes this is how they got off heroin back in the day because they take methadone so we went to

these doctors at the time were just handing stuff out yeah and so we went there and I bought you know I told the guy what was going on he basically told me what to say and my dad did the same thing and each one of us got 320 40 milligram wafers a month so I got 640 of them right because your dad doesn't need them no he don't need them so I took them all and he's like you know we could sell something i said no we can't i'm eating all of them and and so i did this for a year on bond and i'm eating like five bars a day with them and i'm doing a bunch of coke and stuff but so in that year i commit like because i think i'm going away you know how you get that like hopeless yeah it don't matter what i do type thing it can get worse i'm all we're going to go for 10 years if i get caught for

something they'll either throw it in yeah or it will be 11 yeah might as well ride it out yeah so i did that for a year, to the point where I wasn't getting called for nothing. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now. I get a free chili dog.

Chili Dog, not included. The Naked God. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. When I went in to see the judge finally, I was like, I was like, Your Honor. I said, I need about two years to go lay down. I said, will you give that to me today? And he was pissed.

He was like, why ain't I get it? giving you life. You know, he's like you're, you're a career criminal. Every, you know, you're always here, you know, this and that. I said, look, I had a script for that one pill you guys found. And I said, uh, I can get all that and I can have my lawyer beat this charge or you can give me two years today. And I'll take it. And, um, it was like two years, two months. And he was pissed, but he gave, and I told him, I said, you know, I'm on this. And I, one of the comments I did read that somebody said it was impossible to be on 800 milligrams of methadone a day. I was on this for over a year. I don't know if they count the wafers as

milligrams, 40 milligram wafers, 20 a day, with about five bars a day. Now, people think this is impossible to take. I chewed up 10 of them as soon as I woke up and then about another 10 throughout the day. Every day, 20 of them. Right. And so me and my pop got these bottles. I just went through them every month and I didn't have any to sell. And, you know, I got no, I got no, uh, this, the kick was 65 days long. I had four seizures, um, probably from the Xanax. You're not supposed to really get seizures from the methadone, but I don't know. You're not supposed to take that much.

That's like most people take with like 120 milligrams a day. That's serious methadone. Right. I, for some reason, couldn't be affected, uh, or I was affected. My liver was enlarged and my heart got enlarged, but that was later. but the uh but i didn't feel the effects like it wasn't it wasn't doing nothing it was making me normal so that day the judge sentenced me he goes why aren't i giving you life today i said you could try that i said i really want to lay down and kick this methadone habit i said this stuff is bad he goes so you're high

right now i said man i ain't been high in years he said i'm normal right now i said do i look high to you i'm not high i feel normal and i said but i am on a ton of methadone right so he he let me do the sentence anyway so because I guess they got to ask you if you're on yeah you're not technically you're not supposed to be able to do it so he sent me away and then like within two or three weeks I'm still kicking like violently kicking my body's rebelling I'm on buses I end up at Rayford and um you know I'm in a prison inside of two other prisons which house all the you know death row inmates and all you know and then I'm a work uh I end up with this job at first I was kicking And so I told them, I said, I ain't doing nothing.

You could throw me in the box or whatever. I ain't doing nothing for about two months. And I said, when I get my strength back, you'll get your work out of me. They just left me alone. You know what I mean? And then they gave me a job. So I was cool with that. You know, by the time I got up walking around the track and got my weight up a little bit,

I was fine with working, you know what I mean? And then you just get into a routine, doing the thing. But it was weird. Being on death row was like, well, not, you know, not sentenced to death row. So nobody doesn't think I'm full of shit, but being able to go all down keywing and all the wings where guys are like hopeless and eating their own feces and just sick shit going on all the time. One death a week about, you know, regular, somebody hung themselves, somebody got lit on fire, somebody cut their dick on. It was crazy. One time they sent me down there to find a penis.

Yeah, I wasn't doing it. So they were like sending me down there with a bag of ice and a bag and a plastic glove on. I'm like, dude, you're out of your mind. You better go down at yourself. And he was like, you know, it was a, it was a, it was like a, like a, like a drama between two homosexuals or whatever. And he was sticking his, you know, thing through the thing and he bit it off because he found out he was cheating on him.

It was like, you know, like, what do they call that shit? Days of Our Lives of Our Lives, like a soap opera. Death row of soap opera. Death row of soap opera. And that's what it was. And, you know, those guys are deadly serious about, you know, Yeah, he can go intense. But I remember some experiences from, you know, just dealing with all that.

There was a guy writing me at the time who was really, he was really all in my corner. Through that guy, Walt, and I told you that he died, but he was clean for like seven months and showed me it's possible. This is a dude who I got a job because he wanted to be a barber. So I got him a job at my friend's barbershop and he stabbed the guy because he didn't like his haircut. So this is the kind of guy he was very temperamental to say the least and and we ran together for like 20 something years faithfully like if you know we did anything we did it all together and and he was a good dude but uh but he was a little psychotic and um so anyway he showed me for a period of time in seven month period of time he got his life together we got his daughter back he had a credit line he married a counselor in prison the counselor. that was in prison. He ended up marrying her. She was a good girl. Yeah, so he scored. Everything was great. And he goes, I'm just going to sell weed. And I was like, dude, I said, I don't think that's a good idea. I said, I don't know enough about this recovery shit, but you seem to be doing

really good. Yeah. You know what I mean? At that time, I didn't know a lot about it. But he introduced me to a guy. He goes, I can't understand what this guy is saying. What, he'd be good for you. And the guy, he really, he really, like, kind of tricked me into changing my whole life. Yeah, he was way smarter to me. And anyway, I ended up living on his food time with him and his wife in that house for like six months or something like that.

And I'm six, five, the futon's like four or five. I got legs hanging over. My neck would wake up with lines across it. And I stayed on this stupid food time because the stuff he was, like the concepts he was breaking down to me, they gave me hope that I can change. And he separated who I was from what I did.

did. I was able to do that. And this is the guy that was writing you. Yeah, he ended up writing me on that last bit because I had a relapse and then I went out again. It was usually over my daughter. Like, I'd have my daughter. I'd do good. I'd lose my kid and I just didn't see any reason to do good. Right. I didn't have any worth. And so at this time, I'm there, in fact, when I was there learning this stuff, I didn't learn it until a lot later. But he was telling me things and his wife I remember I kicked and he would take me these meetings and just you know took me around everywhere just showing me how to live without the use of drugs because I had to learn that again you know what I mean I used to not do any drugs and then I got

hooked on him so he's teaching me how to do all this stuff and his wife's like you know my appetite came back so I'm eating them out of a house at home right they are not rich and the wife starts you know nagging about it so I'm like god damn it so I go on the hood in Fort Myers and rob a drug dealer and I don't take the drugs I bring the money back and I go here here's some money shut the fuck up I need to hear this guy that is you know I was nicer about it but I was basically like shut up you know it's just I know I eat a lot don't worry about it right and so I gave her money she's like oh you won't hear a word out of me so she was like a little crazy but um she's a nice lady she was she was just like I just want the money I don't

care what's yeah yeah and uh but he on the other hand he he he would write me every week he'd send like these he would write a little bit every day but every week he'd send me like a 20 30 page letter on you know what books to read and stuff like that he had me reading a lot of st francis and you know just guys that got outside of themselves you know what i mean and and that my my problems were of my own making from selfishness like you were saying that one guy that had all that money and he was doing this stuff his greed got uh got him cloudy in the mind and made them do dumb things where is right yeah if he had a clear mind he would have made better decisions so you're you're almost powerless to make good decisions

when you're clouded by a by like a driving force a deep desire to do something and you don't care what happens yeah i was i was i was going to say i think colby heard me say this the other day there was a guy in prison named red bull who legitimately well they called him red bull right right Because he was actually in there for selling Red Bull vending machines on what's called a business opportunity scam that he was running. Anyway, he went to trial, got 15 years, something like that. So this is a guy who legitimately could make $2 million a year by himself, just legitimately doing what he does. But if he could illegally make $2.5 million, he'd go ahead and do the $2.5 million. It's like, you're not okay legitimately making $2 million.

You've got to turn it into some kind of a scam to make an extra $500,000. Right. And you just would. You know, it's like the same thing. Like you could make money legitimately and not risk anything and live the rest of your life. But yeah, but if I do this, it could be a little bit more. Right. Yeah, but you're sacrificing everything.

Right. But in your mind. Yeah, that's what when you were describing those definitions of this and that kind of diagnosis yeah yeah though the egocentric has no choice but to go for the more right you know what I mean but if you're if you're if you're if you know there's only so many resources and everybody's got to try to get along and that you can't just go like I learned from from the guys I grew up with you smash on anything except for your family your people right you know and I found out later that these guys weren't 100% loyal to that you know what I mean it but it took me going and doing it

where like you could stub your toe or my mom could stub her toe and you're having a heart attack and I'd mush you to get to my mom right you know what I mean though who's just got a stub toe that's how I was how I messed up my wiring thinking like that yeah just ego center like I can't not you know do good by her screw you I don't know you you know what I mean like that's how it was for a while and I wasn't like that but learning that way and then doing that way it uh it caused derangement. It did cause derangement. I had to go ahead. Didn't you the other day say to me when we were talking on the phone, you said, I'd take a bullet from my daughter, but I wouldn't go out and get a job.

Right. Yeah, I'll die for, because that's easy. And, but I won't live for. Yeah. Yeah. I thought about that a lot. Like, I mean, literally, like, people typically say stuff to me, but that's been, since you said that, that's been playing through my fucking mind, like three, four times a day. I thought, fuck. Like, that's such a great way to say it. Yeah. I did. Well, I just don't like hip, uh, hypocrisy. Like, and when I say it, I'm not judging it. I'm just saying, I don't want it in my life. It doesn't make me, once I know I'm living a lie, I can't do it. Right. You know what I mean? I can lie to anybody and I could do whatever. But the, but lying to myself or not really sticking to the code, that's what broke me about a lot of gangsters and all that. Like when I started realizing their hatred and everything was all based in fear, I couldn't, I couldn't deal with it anymore. I thought these people were courageous, you know what I mean? And I had to get out of it.

But with my kid, I thought, you know, sucking it up, being a man, not asking for help, all this stuff was the way to go. But like chumping myself and asking how do I do stuff or whatever, this is how my brain was talking to me at the time. Like, dude, you can't do this? What the hell? So I'd rather, you know, I'd rather give a noble attempt, go to prison and all this crap where I'm not there. Right. And I didn't know I was doing this at the time. It was like hidden from my awareness or whatever.

But yeah, I'd kill myself or I'd kill myself trying to do stuff. All I'd do was get in line, be like people, learn how to do stuff and do that. So my kid knows how to do that. Right. And that was my whole basis of my turnaround too. It was back in 2008. I came out. It was kind of a recession.

I joked about. It's your fault. But anyway, I came out into a recession. I started picking stuff up, putting it down, just working. But my real job was to only do what I would tell my daughter to do and not do what I would tell her not to do. That was my only job because most people were scared of me at this point. So nobody was going to be like that one guy that died who helped me out a lot.

Right. I had a lot of, you know, trying to do the right things. things, but also being a little crazy. I brought a guy in my trunk one time to a meeting that I was trying to do the right thing. And, um, and I, you were, you wanted a guy to go to what, like an AA meeting? No, no, I was going to the meeting, but I was in the middle of robbing him and he wouldn't give me the combination. So I threw him in my trunk.

And then I was debating whether to be violent or to go to the meeting and try to do something spiritual. I ended up confessing in front of it, but I mortified these people and told them. I was like, I'm trying to do the right thing here. and I was a little out of my mind. My mom was dying at the time. And I go, I'm trying to do the right thing, but I really don't think this guy deserves it.

So anyway, he's in my trunk right now, and I can't figure out whether I want to let him go or beat the shit out of it. Are you in like an AA meeting? Yeah, at that time it was in an AA meeting. Yeah. Did they think? Nobody snitched on me.

Nobody snitched on me. Did they really realize, like, he's really got a guy in the trunk of this man? Yeah, no, they did realize it? They were terrified. Yeah. Yeah, they were terrified. Yeah, those are the same.

same people that wrote me when I was up in prison. They're like, we're so glad you're on your way to doing the right thing. And they're very encouraging. I ended up going to N.A., though, but they were really nice people. I still go over there and talk to them sometimes. I always say sorry. But, yeah, I got offered a job at Hazleton one time. And the lady was praising me because I had to go in there and speak for a commitment.

You know, like, you know, bringing some hope to these people and stuff. Kind of like what you were saying you do with the, you know, telling people this is a crime. I mean, you know, this and that. And so I go in there and do that. They offered me a job. This lady's like singing my praises, saying how great a guy I am. And one of the workers, the woman that was in that meeting when I can, she goes, oh, that's the guy that came to the meeting with the guy in his trunk.

And I never felt shame before because the people I hung around with, that wasn't a big deal. Yeah, they laughed about it. Yeah, it was no, no, it was not a compelling story. But with these people, I felt like, oh, man. I was like, that was a misunderstanding. I mean, he did not need to be there. I didn't really think I should put him there, but I had to. Anyway, and then I didn't get the job.

I didn't want the job, but I liked when she was saying nice things about it. Made me feel pretty good. So, and then that made me feel pretty shitty. It was the first time I ever experienced, like, shame and admitted it. Like, usually I'd knock somebody out when I got any feelings like that. I would just, instead of working on myself, I would just get rid of the people that, that said bad things you know what i mean so after you got out of prison at you you worked on death row you got you got you got out yeah which was what the last this was that was the last time right

that was last time back in 2008 i've been out ever since and you started you you lived on that guy's futon for a while no that was before oh yeah he died well when i got out of that bid he was been writing me the whole time this was after he helped me and in back in 2004 or five When my friend was clean, he helped me out immensely. He planted ideas in my mind that didn't flourish until later. But he wrote me during that whole bit. And when I got out, I said, as long as I got my mom and this dude, I'm good. So I got out.

My mom said, come home. I said, no, I'm going to a homeless shelter. I said, the truth is, I'm homeless. I need my inside to match my outside. I'm not coming home. And I built my way up from there. But when I said that, all I need is this woman and this sponsor. was a sponsor at the time.

They both started dying of cancer at the same time. And I was like, if there's a God, dude, because I wasn't going to God, but if there was a God, I was like, this is pretty stupid. You know what I mean? This is a dumb idea. The only two people keeping me to be remotely safe, and you're killing them both. I was like, so something's like predestined for me to be a screw up. That's how I started thinking.

But so anyway, I'm going to hospice up in Fort Myers for Rick. And then I'm, you know, helping my mom on, you know, putting her a, she's just whittling away now she had she had cancer back my second bid went through it and by the time i got a visit where i wasn't in the box she looked fine so i thought this was going to be that again she was 56 or so or something so i thought this was just going to be that again i was like oh don't worry about we'll just do this chemo shit and you'll be good and uh and everybody got scared to tell me the truth like you know everybody kind of told me now you know you know and she didn't want to do it like in hindsight i could see she didn't want to go through that treatment she only did it

because she was afraid i was going to go off and do bad again i had been since i've been out of prison and talking to rick and dealing with him i've been doing pretty good i started lifting stuff and putting stuff down and i i worked for a company that gave me four warehouses and then they put me in business because i i ran um his his stuff pretty good so i ended up going into business for myself right this is the moving you were doing you were moving yeah well uh I was working for a bunch of designers at first doing installs and, you know, decking places out, putting artwork up and, you know, I work day and night just doing this. And then I do move jobs because the guy let me use two of his trucks at the time.

Okay. Because, yeah, just use him. And then he caught me in Tampa one time. He's like, I met in Naples, you know. Right. I'm leaving the Tam. I'm going. And I come right back and go to work next morning.

So I work all day. Then I work all night. That's how I paid off that jaw, the cop. I paid all anything I owed. But I never had credit at that point. I never had credit before. So I had nothing there, but I had like hospital bills. I've been shot.

I've been stabbed. So I had a lot of hospital bills. I didn't pay. I paid all of them. Paid everything. And my credits through the roof now. But that's how I did it. I work all day, all night because I didn't like debt.

Right. I paid restitution. Anything I owed, I paid. And so I get to about four years of doing good. And I realize my mom is not getting better. You know, and she's whittling away. It took 18 months for her to die, but she's like whittling away

in the last six months. She was kind of like a vegetable. Like she was there, but nobody was there, you know. She didn't want to do chemo? I don't think so. When I look back on it, she was at, they had this question, and I'm still out of my mind at this point.

Even though I'm cleaning and doing the right things, I had no idea how off the track I had gotten with drug use and crime and all that stuff. So I couldn't pick up, on normal things like everybody else kind of read this and nobody told me so and i was maybe in denial about it so i'm shooting towards her getting better and they had this thing where they questioned me and they said what would you rather have for your mom quality of life or or what was the other question it was like two things and i said oh quality of life no no doubt so so they were they were

trying to come to a conclusion of whether they should just let go and have the last few months without this chemo. And I was drawing it like, you're going to do the chemo. You're going to be great. It's going to be quality of life. I totally misread the whole thing. And plus, there was a lot of fear. Like, without that woman, ain't nobody going to accept me. When I was wanted for murder, my dad was shot out. I was like, Dad, don't tell nobody I'm here. I was only in my house for a minute. But everywhere I went, I was getting, they were all over. So my neighbor, calls the cops. My dad's out there with a lawnmower and he's a little off. He's like, oh yeah, he's inside. My mom goes, he's not here. And I'm hiding behind a shower

curtain with a pistol like this. And I'm like, oh, God, please don't make me shoot this fucker. I said, I'm not going to jail. I'm not doing this. I'm telling you right now, please make him walk away. I'm a big dude behind a little shower curtain. And it, and it's only open, like, I didn't close it all the way because I didn't want them opening it. So I just did it enough to cover me. I see. his boot and he goes he's not here and he walks out there was 40 cops all around I would have been shot to death if I would have did something right there and I didn't know what I was going to do but I wasn't going and I had a phone in my hand calling my buddy come get me and um and my mom's like

you know pretty much lying she's lying for me yeah he's not here he's not coming here you know get out of my house and uh so when she was dying I was like ain't nobody on the planet going accept me like that lady you know if i was wanting for murder she was asking what did you do to make them kill somebody it was right you know what i mean and and even though it wasn't good acceptance it was acceptance right you know so it was crippling too and it's funny because i never thought to do good or or really work on myself until she passed you know what i mean i would have loved to do it for her and i tried of my own will but it didn't really happen for me like i didn't put my back against the wall say there is no choice i got to do good until i got that concept that whatever i do i pass down

to my kid you know my actions um real quick we yeah i think we skipped a part of it was when you got you were in and died it and arrested for for what a murder that yeah triple homicide right so what happened with that like what there was a guy john baller he just got released too he's out um He actually asked me if I was going to hurt him. And, uh, but, uh, he, uh, he, I guess he don't look like me. I don't think at all. He's like a dumpy dude, you know, whatever. So he gets, he gets, uh, he's in there for a crack pipe or something.

He's got a year in the county jail. Okay. At this time. I'm in jail and I'm, uh, I think I'm going to prison. I can't remember why I'm there. I think I'm on my way to prison. So there's this guy called heart attack. We call him heart attack because he's always faking heart attacks.

and my dad's in the block next to him he's drunk you know it's still you know making fake alcohol or whatever and so they're in 4A and 4B the misdemeanor and then the felony this guy John Ballard's doing a year in the county for a crack charge or whatever

this is a year after the murders I'm in what was the murders there were three people killed yeah yeah beating with a bedposts and stuff there were um if you look up John Ballard murders he he beat up his aunt or something and two other people.

And they died. Yeah, and they died. But there was like 30 people saying I did it. And I was like, I wasn't even, I don't even think I was in town at the time. But I know I wouldn't beat up no woman or I just knew it wasn't me. Right. No matter how messed up I got, I knew that wasn't me. So you're in jail?

Sorry. So I'm in jail and I'm facing, oh, the armed robbery, which I didn't do. And they had picked me up in St. Louis for the murders. I got shipped from a fugitive block in Clayton County to, um, to Naples Florida back to Naples. So at that time, I was trying to, you know, be there for my kid because I knew I was going away for at least 40 years for armed because they were charging me with an armed instead of a drug dealer getting robbed. And I was like, I can't believe they're doing that. So I called this lawyer down in Naples to retain him. Me and my dad are talking to him. The guy snitches on me. He tells him where I'm at, the lawyer. And he's like a, he's like a well-known lawyer down there. He makes deals with the, it's very, very, very corrupt very corrupt like he'll get a couple guys off and he'll give you this guy right so i guess i was the guy who got giving up and he goes and tells him where i'm at and um so anyway i end up getting sent down here it takes about two months on transcore and uh and i end up in the county jail

and this guy a heart attack is the roommate of the guy who killed these three people and the guys got like two days left on a year he's scott free nobody even thinks he did it he confesses to this guy who's a snitch and a you know fake heart attack guy right funny guy whatever you don't you know he wouldn't tell on people like me or my dad or nobody right but he'd tell on a whatever to get out of trouble oh I was gonna say a multiple murderer yeah yeah yeah so he well he didn't tell on him he wasn't tell on him because he was wondering but then he knew I was arrested for it so I'm in another block waiting to do a hair and blood sample and do a lie detector test for these murders and he goes up and tells my dad my dad's still

I guess he got like a little bit of wet brain or something so when he stops drinking he's still a little shot out right so a heart attack tells him hey Mr. Thayer you know this guy just confessed to the murders that your son's in the other block for what should I do he goes

if you're a rat do what you do I don't fucking know he goes you know my dad dad's shout out yeah so yeah so your dad my dad's your dad's telling the guy basically don't say anything. No, he's saying

if you're a snitch, you're going to do what you do, you know what I mean? Oh, okay. I thought he was saying, oh, don't say anything.

Like, my fucking son's first. You got to go. No, my dad would, my dad was a firm believer. I one time handed him 180 year PSI

for 11 sales and manufacturing charges before that CI disappeared or got killed or whatever. And I handed it to him under the door and he looks at it and he goes, oh,

we got leapier coming up. And you got three months in. 180 years, you could do it, son. He always believed in me. So he goes, you want a cup of coffee? And he hands me a cup of coffee under the thing. Like, he would do it with me. Like, that's a, he would, he just had full confidence

that I could handle whatever was coming down in the park. So when this guy asked him, I know it sounds like he's ruthless, but you just got to know his sense of humor. You know what I mean? He really had full confidence. I mean, from the time I was like three, he was just like, that's Dan the man, let him do whatever he wants.

You know, he was a little nuts. But anyway, so this guy tells him that. My dad says, well, if you're a snitched, go to do that. And so he, it goes throughout the jail that we know it's John Ballard. Next thing you know, I get transferred to the block. And he's like, hey, because I already did the heroin blood sample. They kind of knew I didn't do that. They were going to let me go, but they didn't let me go yet.

So I end up in the block with this guy. And he goes, hey, you're not going to kill him. me are you and I was like what I said who the fuck are you I don't know who you are and he goes I'm the guy that you're in here for these murders and I said I should kiss you in the mouth I said I'm about to walk right now because I took a lie detector test and proved it I didn't do the murder they dropped an armed robbery which I did do I said you you know you're a piece of shit but I ain't got nothing to do with you you know what I mean and so I I I'd left it at that and then the guy ends up beating the charges yeah he goes to prison for three murders I

I mean, they had them dead to rights, but they fucked up the thing so bad he ends up getting released. Like, I just heard about it like a couple years ago. But anyway, that's all, sorry, that's all in the past now. But, yeah, there was like 22 people that signed things saying I did it. And I was like, this is crazy. And then they tried to indict me on the murder of the CI in my case. And I was in jail when it happened. Right.

Like, they were always trying to do stuff like that, arrest me for stuff. and then why did the 20 people say you did it do you think it was just 20 people that so they knew you yeah yeah they all knew me i was actually trying to get you off the street yeah yeah i was a terror so i was hiding out in the everglades and um everglades city and i know a bunch of people down there but they all ratted on me i was hiding out down there except for like one girl that i know now today she was a stand-up uh person she didn't say nothing you know but they pretty much got everybody down there to I mean I it's funny there's statements that they wrote were like oh he's he confessed to this and he did that and then and anybody knows me I mean even if even if

I did do something I wouldn't talk about it or nothing you know what I mean and uh that was because I was always you know worried about stuff like that even doing this like I always wonder I'm like oh man what if they uh bring this up and then I'm like who gives this shit you know well the statute of limitations is yeah all the statute of limitations is yeah all these crimes are so fucking old yeah unless you're saying i committed this murder doing this at this time like that's or what is it there's only two things with no statute of limitations murder and espionage or something like that yeah i think well any capital crime uh murder home invasion um stuff like that home invasion doesn't have a statute of limitations i don't think so but you could check i i think

because of um it being a capital offense like carjacking was for a while and then they changed it because all those guys were getting killed down in Miami okay so now you got out you started a moving company eventually you started moving yeah yeah i did it for about see 2008 to about a number of years i did it without being official you know right just do it for get a truck word them out yeah yeah i had a couple trucks and and and i was using those and then i was renting them and then i started i was like you know what i need to make this official right but when got my LLC and then a friend of mine he's dead now too he was a good yeah everybody everybody's crazy but he filed my stuff for me because I was intimidated to go down and it's funny I wasn't scared

to you know die all the time but I was definitely terrified the first time I got health insurance I didn't use it for a year I paid cash everywhere I went and when they found out I had it because I was afraid to hand it in and then tell me something like I'm doing something wrong and and I didn't have the right answers, so I just didn't use it. Yeah, so I wouldn't use it. And then a year later, they found out, I asked this guy, I was like, how do you use this insurance? And he goes, you just hand the card to the lady, and that's it.

I said, get out of here. Really? And so I went and I handed it to her, and she's like, oh, you've had this for a year. I could go back and, you know, I said, no, no, let me pay full price for my stupidity. It was like a couple thousand dollars for visits. I had, like, bronchitis or something. I would just pay cash, yeah, because I just didn't. I didn't know what to say to it, and I didn't want that, you know, what the hell you've

been doing all your life type thing coming up, you know? Yeah, yeah, I didn't learn a lot of, you know, normal shit. I had to pick it up. Now I found out you can YouTube everything, which is embarrassing. I could have just been YouTube and all this shit. I YouTube. Yeah, you could YouTube everything. Yeah, yeah.

Just like when Colby came in and I said, how do you do this? Like I was literally, when you, when you texted me, I was about to YouTube something on Final Cut Pro and then that's why I'm yeah man it's incredible I still call 10 people like now because I know everybody doing everything so I call 10 people and I and I strike up a conversation and I'm trying to soak out the information of what I want right while I'm talking to them so it's not just like I'm calling and it's such such a stupid game I play and then eventually I'll just be like yeah how the fuck do you do this yeah and I'll be like why don't you just YouTube it and I'm like shut up yeah I started doing it I'll

YouTube stuff too I'll YouTube stuff it's like I wait to the last minute to like call Colby yeah or call Danny yeah I'll call him and I'm like listen bro I tried like I want to let him know I tried yeah YouTube did it I did this 500 things I did I didn't call it because I don't want to be that guy let you get the thing

you're like oh this fucking guy yeah he's always calling me asking stuff and then the worst thing is when they're like okay see the three buttons click that go down to see that where it says that and you're like no yeah click that okay we're done and you're like I'm such an idiot it like how did i not you can't see it you just can't see it they're they're they're more practiced

at it or i couldn't see it well especially not even starting the process till you're 50 years old right right yeah brains are stuck right what's intuitive to these guys yeah yeah still yeah when i was a kid did you ever see that video there was a tic talk right where an adult basically some some guy who's probably in his 50s goes to his two kids that are at 12 and 14 years old or something and and gives them a rotary phone and says, give them the phone number says, don't all this number. Yeah.

And the discussion that they have and trying to do it, and it's just like, it's out of their realm. Yeah. It was kind of cool seeing them get stumped by that. Yeah. I know how to do that. That's me trying to use my iPhone

when I first got on the prison. I remember asking my daughter, how do you text? Yeah. I was like, the silliest thing. I was like, how do you text people? Yeah, I still don't like that. It always gets misinterpreted.

You know what I mean? I got to learn how to write better. But so. All right. So back to Ballard and beating that stuff. You know, it got me out of that trouble. And then I'm trying to think. Well, yeah, we kind of jumped around.

So then you eventually got out of prison. You started the- I started a moving company. Yeah, started a moving company. And now- And a demolition. I did a lot of demolition. That's how I learned how to put stuff together,

was taking stuff apart. and yeah that's how I learned everything about construction was just destroying it you know gently and I ended up oh I ended up demo in the prison that I first went to Henry Correctional for a it's kind of secret but they they had like a they were teaching um what they call them communication specialists how to kill people so they didn't get overrun like these these Canadian communication specialists, they would get overrun by the enemy or whatever and get killed. So these special forces guys were teaching them that. So I demoed the prison and turned it into a playground for them. And I wasn't allowed to take pictures that one, but that was one

the biggest demo jobs I did. And it was so strange being there at a place that I spent so many years at doing so much crazy shit. And then being there running a crew of 32 guys and just be able to come and go as I wanted to. I mean, the girl I was with at the time, I had her on the razor wire fence. He's like, you would never touch that fence. You know what I mean? Like, I was sitting there, you know, swinging out of or whatever, like, jumping on it.

And it was just a total different, total different outlook, you know, from the hopelessness of being a youth. I didn't even know it was hopeless at the time, but being a youth and not being able to leave there. And then, and then running a crew. and making really good money. Right. Yeah, good contract.

It's funny. It's always funny to my wife, you know, when we go to pick up her daughter, we drive right by Coleman. But the prison I spent, you know, 13 years and I drive by. It's like, I've never seen it from the outside. Yeah, yeah, you don't even know. You're like, that's what that was. That was a concrete factory.

I used to see this little building in the, you know. Yeah, a friend of mine from New York wanted to see the prison I was in. I was showing them Rayford. Right. And he goes, how come you don't know which way to turn? I'm like, dude, they never let us out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I could have been, like, you could have told me I was in Missouri.

Yeah, I only know I'm in Florida because my mom said the prison's an hour north of Tampa. Like, I don't know where I am. I've never walked out. I don't know what it looks like from the outside. Yeah, sensory deprivation or something. Your whole world is in this little tiny. Yeah. When you see it from the outside, too, you're like, oh, that's so weird.

Yeah, it was a gray day, too. I remember seeing the gun towers and everything. thing when we went there. I was like, I don't know why you want to see this place, but you wanted to see it. Yeah, it was a pretty, pretty gloomy place. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, you know, we would be in the rec yard at the low.

Well, in the medium, too, actually, it happened in the medium, too. You'd be in the rec yard, and you could hear them, you know, because the prisons are so close together. Yeah. Right there's only maybe a parking lot or two between the two of them. And you could see, like, the guard towers and stuff from the, from the low. You could see the guard towers. And then, you know, every, you know, the difference between the low and the, low and the medium and the penitentiary is, is that these guys are locked down half the year. Yeah.

So they would let them out. And sure enough, within a day or two, it's, you know, you hear the sirens and get on the ground, get on the ground. And then all of a sudden you hear, you know, you pop, you hear the concussion grenades. And you're sitting on, you're, you know, I'm, I'm, whatever, I'm, you know, hundreds of yards away. and those concussion grenades make you drop. You know, you're like, holy Jesus. You know, and they're talking about you will be fired upon. You will be fired.

I'm like, God, thank God I'm at the low. Yeah. You know, those guys, they're crazy over there. Oh, man. DeSoto was like that too. It was like night and day, the separation, the guys that were able to work. South Florida, too, I remember they didn't have the, what was that stuff, the mental patients take, Thurazine.

Thorazine. They ran out of it. these guys were like throwing guards like there were rag dolls in the dead's like super strength it was crazy and uh the whole block was going crazy you know one guy ran he jumped on the razor wire they had to use a helicopter yeah it was nuts i was talking about the time you know i don't know if they were you know they eventually what it ended up entering in the last probably 10 years is you know that synthetic marijuana that you know they called tucci yeah uh and they they they you know and and it obviously just makes these guys nuts and I mean they would

strip down naked and they just start running a hole in their brain yeah they start running around the compound so you got eight eight COs trying to grab some guy who's naked you know running and and they like you said they got like psycho strength yeah yeah and it's just you know and like PCP is the dude to make them like superhuman yeah they grab this guy and he'd be on the ground and he'd be screaming he's on fire right so you're like you know he's insane He stripped it, this is a grown man, just stripped his clothes off, running around the compound with the cops, screaming he's on fire and trying to put out the fire and you're like, this is not going to end good. Right. And the other inmates would tell themselves like, man, he got a good batch.

Yeah. That's what I want. Oh, yeah. What do you? That's what you want? What do you do it? They're attracted to it like moths to a flame. Yeah.

You just don't know how to do it. Yeah. You don't know how he can't handle it. Yeah, yeah. That's a good batch right there where you think you're on fire and you're. He'd walk in superhuman strength. You'd walk in the bathroom. They'd some guy would be on the ground flop around.

Yeah. Trying to swim like on the tile. That's the good stuff. Guys would be like, man, that's that good shit. That's how they used to do with their heroin too. Somebody died from a bag. It'd be in the newspaper. And there'd be a hundred people going to that bag.

Just because that guy didn't know how to do it. That would give you that. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It's a driving. Like, you don't think. Like, you know what I mean?

These are, these are people that are probably just as intelligent as anybody else, but you can't tap into your thinking ability. You're just obsessed. You're fixed on it. Right. Yeah. So it gets like, it gets more progressive and eventually you start running around like your own fire. Just like a bunch of, like, true, when you were saying true crimes,

I was thinking I'm not really qualified for true crimes. It was more reacting and needing stuff and just. making dumb decisions. But there was a lot of, like, you know, criminals, they were always a lot smarter to me. You know what I mean? Like, I was kind of, like, kicking the door and throw everybody on the ground.

Right. Yeah. And I wasn't, I was, I didn't like stealing because if I robbed you, you knew I did it. You know what I didn't? If you didn't know I did it, then I had to walk around worried that you were going to find out and, like, I'm a punk, I can't tell you,

that I took your shit. You know what I mean? Like, these were the stupid rules I started the form being deranged you know what i mean that it was better to just let you know and then my conscience got so bad and there wasn't enough drugs to settle it i would have to talk people into being okay with me route you're okay with me taking this right like i would get it would be deadly serious you know what i mean and i couldn't leave until i were convinced that you wanted me to leave what your stuff and the guy's five foot three looking up at you six foot five i mean there was all kinds of

Of course. Yeah, yeah. I'm embarrassed. You have to even ask me now. I thought we were friends enough to know. Here, take the car too. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it was, they used to have some, well, in Naples is a lot nicer, but when Miami is a little rougher, but in St. Louis is rough. But they would have these parties down there in Marco Island and Naples, and they would just talk about me robbing people. And I would be like, you know, this is not what I want to be known for. At the time, it was funny. Right. Then when you, you know, you get a little older, it's like, this is ridiculous. You know, all I'm known for is just taking people's shit.

So, you know, the guy, I forget his name, like John Pulitzer or something, you know, the Pulitzer Prize. Yeah. Right. So, you know, he's actually the inventor of gunpowder. I thought that was DePont. Is it, yeah, is it Pulitzer? I think it's Pulitzer. Oh, yeah, you're probably right. I read a story on DePont and how they started.

They were just manufacturing it. I was going to say, so he, he, it was, and I could be wrong about the story, but I'm pretty sure I'm accurate. He, it was reported to the newspaper that he had died, but he hadn't died. So one day he reads the newspaper, and it's his obituary. Right. And what he reads is basically the man responsible for coming up with like gunpowder, which has, you know, destroyed more this than any of the, you know, is responsible for killings like just just butchered right you know the creation of gunpowder right and he read it and he thought this is my obituary this is what i'm leaving behind and then

so he turned right so he turned around and came up with the you know like the um you know pulitzer prize and uh um what is it the um wait wait wait what's the piece what is it to be nobel nobel i'm sorry I think it's Nobel, the Nobel Peace Prize, not Pulitzer, sorry, the Nobel, right. So then he came up and he funded like the Nobel Peace Prize and I'm sorry, not Pulitzer, I'm wrong. So the Nobel Peace Prize. And like, so he spent the rest of his life like trying to clean up. Yeah.

What he had never really thought about. He just thought, like I came up with this, this invention or this chemical or whatever, this process. And, you know, not thinking, hey, I made some money in this and not seeing how, you know, the effect that people were really looking at him and spent the rest. of his life you know fixing that yeah yeah that's one of the the revelations i had was that i can't like i have a responsibility to do something to live to my potential that's what i learned from the guys on death row the ones that didn't have any more time right and they were waiting to die they they said that the difference between their heaven or how the ones cutting themselves

and the ones that had this piece about them was how much they lived to their potential how much they help others live to theirs and how they treated everybody so i built my whole thing about you know my daughter only doing what i would tell her it was just somebody i loved that i wouldn't give bad advice to right so i started taking it and um and since then i've had you know hundreds of people like all i had to do at first was just not punch a cop and everybody's like dan really turned his life around that's how low my bar was at first but then it like year after year it's gotten, you know, to where like judges are, you know, sending people incorrigibles or whatever, anybody even close to that, they somehow get a hold of me. And I started working with them.

And a lot of them work for me. But, but what happened was when I learned that lesson, I didn't have a life or death sentence. When they, when they transmitted that message to me and I seen the piece they had, I did like, you know, like that guy, you know, he read his obituary. And it was nothing he wanted to right you know be grateful about so I worked on I've been working on and didn't know it but it took about six years of doing it before I realized what I was doing and I was evening out the scales like you like you said clearing up the past and I you know I did I paid everything I owed I you know I deal with people fairly I got you know multiple things going on and and people

count on count on me like you know a lot of people right and you know all around the world pretty much i got like people that call and stuff like that and um and now i'm starting to travel a lot but one of the things i did want to uh emphasize is that i was deemed incorrigible by the state of florida beyond correction and then i was deemed a sociopath or whatever one of those nice titles and i was told i was bipolar and i was put on lithium and i'm not on none of that stuff and i'm not saying nothing's wrong with that i got a lot of mental illness in my family but I haven't needed anything just by taking an honest self-appraisal and doing my best instead of worrying about you know the results of that right like they said leave live to your potential

so every day every year I grow and my my network grows and the influence grows so my point to all that is I couldn't shake people no matter what I did some people liked me and wanted me around and I caused a lot of destruction right due to fear and you know what worrying about being found out and all this stuff I cause a lot of destruction today everywhere I go it gets a little better and that's possible for anybody I've done it with like hundreds of guys you do the life coach you yeah life coaching and then well I'd sponsor people for free and then I life coach like families and stuff like that that I just tell them if you get results and and it's it's done

better than my moving company you know and that moving company does really well but but yeah there's there's it definitely it wasn't my goal it was just that you can't just work with one person because really it's the the relationships all across the board it's counterproductive when you go to try to help somebody and everybody thinks he's the problem well all you had a part in that you know what I mean so it's hard to work with somebody get them better then they go back into the environment and then they're sick again and it's and they become destructive and everybody's blaming them on how good they're doing or how bad they're doing when in reality it's it's uh they're comparing what they're doing wrong to what he's doing wrong so that looks bad

like i used to keep a guy around me that stab people all the time because it made me look really good right you know what i mean like but he was my friend but his main job was to look crazier than me so i looked kind of normal that's what i looked back on it i was like man and i couldn't find that guy anymore like i got to the point where i was that guy that i just couldn't find the guy anymore that made me look good yeah so i had to get good it's like playing poker and uh there's always somebody's the fish and it's like if you can't find the if you can't figure out who the fish is you're in yeah yeah yeah so yeah i just like to always end with that you know even though the thing goes you know goes crazy there's tons of stories of

you know could be comical if it wasn't real and uh in my life you know what i mean and and and it was at the at times comical, but it was really just out of desperation and not knowing I had a choice. Right. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. If you like the video, do me a favor, subscribe to the channel, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Leave me a comment in the comment section. And I have a Patreon, you know, it's like 10 bucks a month, it's nothing.

And yeah, thank you very much for watching and see you.