Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Director Reveals The Truth Behind Hollywood Crime Movies | Kevin Interdonato

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

Director Reveals The Truth Behind Hollywood Crime Movies | Kevin Interdonato

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Did you write this, man? Oh, this is all done. Oh, listen, it gets better. So real quick, what happens is this. Listen, the best part of this, which was weird at first, right? Like when I first did start doing podcasts and I did one on concrete and it got like two million and change, you know. And so people start calling me and they're like, they bought my book. They want to meet me.

Can I sign my book? They'll buy me lunch. First, I was really like, like, that's weird. like I don't I don't feel comfortable with that that's odd and then I remember a friend of mine who actually I was renting her spare room I'm living in her spare room she said listen she's like you didn't know how you were going to make a living she's like these people for she said like Gary Vaynerchuk you know who that is gravy like I love watching his stuff I don't really watch it anymore but at the time I did she was that guy Gary Vaynerchuk she said if you could

meet him would you and I went yeah of course that's of course right she said okay well you're Gary Vaynerchuk to some of these people she says so stop being a douchebag about it and go meet the guy for lunch and you know she's a little blunt um so i met i met this guy for lunch and we had this just normal conversation and he he did have that whole like wow i can't believe i'm talking to you and i'm thinking i was in prison a few months ago yeah yeah but as that's been happening i got used to it because obviously i'm narcissistic so i of course love it but the best one that ever happened was i was with my girlfriend who's at the time i'm married to her now but not impressed if with anything i'm

doing um she we we went to dinner with her and her daughter and we're leaving dinner um and by this time i'd been on a ton of fucking shows um and some guy comes running up to me as we're walking out and he goes excuse me excuse me uh sir sir and i turn on i go yeah what's up i thought maybe he's waiter like maybe i left my my um license or i'm sorry my right right i start looking for my wallet. I'm like, yeah, what's up? And he goes, oh, I just wanted to let you know that, like, bro, like, like, like I, I, I, you know, he said, he said, I, um, I didn't want to interrupt you guys, but, uh, he said, I think everything you're doing is like, you know, like I, I totally like, and the way he said it was weird. He goes, I totally support like everything you're doing. And I went, do I know you? He goes, bro, I, I follow you like on, on everything and I watch your stuff and I've watched your stuff and I've watched. your interviews and so i follow you on instagram and youtube and and i went and then i dawned on me i was like oh i said yeah bro i appreciate that man um um he was yeah i just wanted to say like you're you're you're like you're inspiring and i turn to my my girlfriend at the time and i go

inspiring you know you know i'm so sorry man he's like i didn't want to interrupt you guys no no i said you did the right thing and he goes i mean but bro you're like you are you're amazing And I go, amazing. He said, I'm amazing. And I shake his hand. I'm like, thank you so much, bro. I really pretty said, oh, yeah, thanks, man. I just want to meet you.

I said, and he walks off. That's terrific, man. Listen, I always tell my girlfriend and my wife now, I'm like, it doesn't, if somebody recognizes me and says something, it doesn't mean anything unless you're there to glit for me to glit. It means nothing. I'm like, yeah, hey, what's up? How's it? Cool.

I appreciate. No problem. Right, right. And I text her. And she's like, yeah, all right. That's great, man. That's great. You never know who's watching.

You never know who's hanging on stuff. Just the same you are with someone else, you know, at certain points. But it's odd. It's an odd feeling, but it is. I was going to say, I mean, can you imagine, bro, I'm in prison laying in a bunk bed with 180 guys storing and burping and yelling and, you know, trying to sleep and toilets are flushing in the background. And I'm wrapped my head up with a towel so I can just, you know, get some,

try and get some sleep and a few months later i'm walking through an airport i'm standing in line in the airport you know in line and guys are looking at me looking and then next thing you know two guys come up to me and they're like you're matt cox aren't you and i'm like you know of course they pulled their phones out and i'm like i'm like yeah bro man i got your book um i watched you on uh vlad uh and they start going on like and they're shaped my hand everything i'm like you know hey what's up cool yeah and then they leave and then of course the people in line around you are now right right right like it's just it is like it's like the extreme yeah from one to another is just insane that's something man i can kind of relate on on a level of what you're saying as you're

telling me about it because when i was in um when i was in bagdad i came back and it was like one one day in combat and then the next day you know my aunt uncle are coming over to say hello and have some you know have dinner and and my friends would come over and well and i was like where the fucking yeah what did this right how you went i went from yeah one extreme to the other yeah just like that's i kind of get what you're saying there man i give you a lot of credit i don't know how you kept that's a lot of guys to be in a room with that's a lot of threats man maybe i just have high anxiety from things i went through with that but uh yeah that's that's that's a road you went through man well i mean i was i was well when you're in like a what they call them uh like a dorm like

that yeah you know it's not it's not state this is federal low security federal and people get hurt but you know i mean i always say look if you get stabbed in prison you probably had it coming like they're just not randomly stabbing people like well a lot of my battle buddies are um our ceos or correction officers and stuff you know a lot of them or they're cops and yeah i get the stories man you know you you you know yeah it's not state but it's not exactly uh it's not exactly like you're going to hang out at a at a local pub with friends either you know right so yeah that would weigh on me i give you a lot of credit well um so so uh i we like i said before we i hit record you know we we uh my wife and i watched the movie and i got a bunch

of questions what's so funny is And I don't, you know, not trying to jinx this or anything, but what people that watch my channel find interesting and what I find interesting are sometimes two totally different. Like, I'll do an interview with like a director or an actor or something like that. And, you know, it'll get 8,000 views, you know. And then I'll do some guy who's been in two car chases and just done a series of just knucklehead shit his whole life and it'll get 45 or 100,000 views. And you're like, I believe this guy's a complete there. like and but people but you know maybe can tell stories or something but maybe that's maybe i walk the line with both i don't know it depends yeah conversation goes but i apologize to your

audience if they're not no no but what i'm what i'm saying is like i watched the movie and the whole time i was like like how did he do this on this budget like like and and and it was a it was set up well the I don't want to say it's um shoot I used to know the term it's like forecasting like you're the you know you leave a little crumb here a little crumb there like the very end I'm not going to ruin the end but like the end like you know the end of it I was like oh man and even though you show the flashes you didn't I didn't really necessarily need the flashes from like how you got to that point I was like oh like I felt like something was up. I couldn't put my finger on it. And then when it happens, I was like, damn. And you know,

you're thinking one thing. I love that. You were thinking one thing and it just completely went off. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of funny how that came together, man. Yeah, we call it the same thing as planting seeds. And it's just enough to put in someone's psyche where their gut says something, but you don't want to listen to it. You kind of want to stay the course. And are you referring to, let's just say, to not give anything away, the girlfriend or the thing on the boat? No, no. No. No. It was the, it was the, the, the, the boat thing, I still wasn't 100%. I mean, I feel like I know who it was, but because I had never seen, I like, look, I've never seen your father, but it, in the film, I don't really recall seeing him.

Did you show him prior to that? Oh, okay. Well, then I missed that part. Yeah. At the beginning, there was a slow push in when my character was getting dressed and then there was two pictures and there was my character and his dad and then the, the bastards. So, well, what's good is I hadn't seen, I didn't, I didn't, I don't recall saying that. And I still put it together immediately.

I was like, oh, that's such and so. So there's, so I guess so there's, there's definitely two. Yeah. Really, the girlfriend was the one that really, you know, that's the one that really had me going, oh, wow. Oh, good, man. I'm glad I got you. And the interesting thing, too, is you could have ended the film at about, there was about three or four different spots where I thought, oh, it's about to end. And any one of those would have been a good ending, you know, even though you may have, you may have felt like, hey, I didn't, yeah, but if I ended it there, I wouldn't have wrapped up. Yeah. You know, there would have been a few, a few loose ends. But I'm typically okay with loose ends. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you'll fill those in on your own. But yeah, yeah, I hear you. You know, we're doing it. And the story was kind of finding its way. I thought it was locked with the script, you know, and then you film and things change. And then when you're in edit, things change again. And,

we're watching it, watching it. I'm like, I can't, I can't stop with this film. That's why I was so emphatic about, about making sure that this movie went as far as it is, because there's, there's no doubt that there's going to be a sequel. There's even, someone approached me already about doing a series. It just gets to a bigger story, and I already have it in my head. It's already planned out, and I didn't want to just end it with this. So we put a nice couple hooks on it, and yeah, people seem to be responding, man. I'm kind of, I'm blown away. way, I didn't realize it would get this much attention. I didn't realize it. Well, can we jump back to kind of the beginning, like, you know, where you were, how did you get into it? Like,

where were you born? Were your parents in the industry? Because it seems like you're, from what I know, from Tom, you know, your story, your life, I'd say your life track has gone in multiple different directions. Like, you know, were your parents in the industry? Did you always want to be in the industry because you were in the military like it seems like i should no it's odd i i never thought i would be one um i always knew something was in me i just didn't know what the hell it was i was a good athlete i was never great i was just really good but it never satisfied me nothing ever satisfied me i was a wild kid man i was an absolute maniac grew up in jersey at the jersey shore my parents were from north jersey we lived down there and after high school i joined the

actually i joined the army national guard and i was still a senior in high school you know when they're in the hallways and other recruiters and everything. Right. So I was lost. I signed up. I didn't tell my parents. I just did it. And I went to boot camp and came back and I started going to college,

trying all these things. I didn't know what would sing to me. I had no idea. So I just tried everything. And I ended up taking an acting class on a whim outside of college. And holy shit, this is it. This is it. And I just literally left college the next day and just started

going towards that and i was getting in some trouble along the way i wasn't can i ask you a question like an acting class like i mean you must have had some inkling that it might be something you might want to do it was an odd class to just randomly take like you you you had did you you know what i'm saying like it wasn't it wasn't for me it was different than most um i can give a horse's ass about the spotlight and the oscar and this and that at that time of my life I was buried deep in self-help books. I just didn't know what was wrong. I didn't know why I had this manic energy in me,

this, this, this want for a high all the time. I was fighting a lot, you know? Like I just, I just couldn't, I couldn't get what I wanted. I was never satisfied. And then I, I read an acting book. I was a big fan of like film. I just loved film growing up.

It was my escape always, just like anybody else. you know and I had this book by Michael Kane and I bought it when I was in high school just because I liked Michael Kane and I was like I'll give this a shot a friend of mine was going on acting class and I said I'll go with you and I saw it and I was sitting in the in the chairs watching everyone I was like I think I think this is it and then I went up and did something and something ended up coming out of me this this I don't know what this this ball of contempt and fire and rage and it just kind of exploded and it felt so so fucking good when I was done that I was like, I haven't felt like this.

So I kept going. And I literally just stopped college and just kept going, going, going. And that's how, that's how it started. So, I mean, were you, did you go for acting, different acting, were you think, you were thinking acting or were you thinking? Yeah, I didn't audition or anything for about a year and a half. I just knew it served as, excuse me, almost a therapy for me at that time of my life. So I just, it was, you know, acting.

True acting is the art of, you know, self-exploct. and knowing yourself. So really digging into that world, that craft is kind of what opened me up and made me realize a lot of things about myself. What made me tick and why I have these, you know, these crazy things going on in my head. But creatively, it satisfied me. And I just kept going with it, kept going with it. And then I started auditioning. I learned how to do that. And then I started a book of work. I was lucky. I just started a book of work quick. And within two years, I had a, I had stuff going. going on. You know, it just works. And then somehow or another, I ended up booking the Sopranos at that time. And when I booked the Sopranos, I did a, you know, a couple episodes in season four. If you blink, you miss it, you know, they always cut a lot of stuff out and everything and whatever. It was still cool to get on. But you know, something, I didn't even watch the show. So more other, everyone around me, kind of like what you're saying before was like so into it. Like, oh, wow, this is that. And I was like, thanks, thanks, thanks. But I was kind of like this. I didn't see what the big deal was. I still went to acting class and was finding my way. at the same time, even though I was book and work. So I did the show, and then there's a hiatus, did some more work. And then they called me up to come back in the fifth season. I was supposed to be Christopher's right-hand man and one of the guys here were Christopher. And at that time, I got a call for, I got a call from the National Guard unit. And there's like this saying when you join the military is like a code. You know, if you get a phone call and this is said, you'll know

what that means. And for the life of me, I forget what it was. But I got the call. And I, And in the guard, it's very, it's not like, yes, sergeant, no, sir. That's not the guard. The guard's really loose, you know, is all my buddies I've known. So I got a call, and I remember my phone rang back when you have answering machines. And I hear specialist interdonado. And I looked at the number. I said, hey, Frank, what's going on?

Specialist Kevin Interdenado. I'm like, Frank, it's me. What's up? And then he said, he said, he said, oh, shit. He said, did you receive this transmission? I said, yeah, received Sarge. And he hung up. I'm like, wow, I'm going to fuck a war.

And that was it. I got another phone call after that. And I said, you can't accept employment from this date on, which was like three or four weeks from that point. I got the phone call. And you go on active duty status. And that was it. You know, I couldn't work.

Lost the sopranos, lost everything. I had a couple films lined up. And that was that. But you know something, Matt, to be honest with you. I was just going to say, how did you feel? Would you feel like flop? At that time, my life, I was. fucking nut. Even though I was still going through what I was going through, I had a I had a fire

in me man that I couldn't I couldn't put out if I tried. And looking back at it now after going through the experience I had, sounds very naive and foolish and ignorant, but I was the prime kind of guy to go to war at that time of life. So we went there and I was a National Guard unit. And we were field artillery, which was a combat unit. So there was no females in my unit. It was all a bunch of guys from Jersey. We got picked. There's some of a draft from four different units. And when we went to Baghdad, I was one of eight military police companies. So they were all military police there and they took our field artillery unit and they converted us to military police before we went out because there was a shortage. Proper train up to be military police in the

army i believe is five or six months we went to fort dicks for five weeks did the best we could didn't shoot half the weapons didn't know half the shit and then they just kind of shipped us out there went to kuwait city to acclimate before you know we were driving in a convoy like three a m to back then and um that was like mad max man back that back that when i was there that was that was that was war when i was there it was still different um there was fires in the sky the sky the sky was orange it was like you smelled like shit and then um the first month was a little quiet and then that was that man all hell broke loose so they put our company into a into a desert storm or Iraqi freedom okay 2004 um so we went there and of the eight active duty MP companies

we were we were considered one of them we were the only one with that was all males because police or military police there's females. So someone high up figured this maniac group of guys from New Jersey in the National Guard that were field artillery they're all guys so we'll put them into Sater City which is kind of the ghetto of Baghdad at the time

and everyone else had armored Humvees they rolled out in these. We had non-armored, no floors, plastic doors, no doors and we rolled out and we've sometimes we had to figure out on the spot how to use certain weapons and um it was it was it was it was insane it was absolutely insane i still see a bad dream i'm still dealing with things today it's not worth getting into but uh somehow a look another i lucked out you know we lost a few guys almost everybody got hit and uh made it back and that was it how long were you uh stationed there

my coffee for 12 months i came home in 10 i ended up breaking my leg when I was there. It's so funny, man. You get snite, shot, blown up, all these close calls, and I ended up breaking my leg, wrestling with my buddy one night. I figured. So you come back, and two days later, your uncle stops by.

I was like, where's the front of my? It was such a mind trip. It was so wound tight. It almost made me feel how tight I was wound because over there I felt normal. you have to have such as heightened sense of uh fight or flight you know which is what i thought of when when you're you know when i i knew you're in prison and i have never been locked up like that and i can only imagine the anxiety i would have in that situation but i mean it's the same thing you

you very quickly just like you know i hate to even compare the two but you know you very quickly get used to it you do the first week or two it's it you're you're looking around you're you're nervous you're comfortable two you know two weeks later you're way better a month later you're shooting the shit with people you know three week three months later you know you're playing pranks on fucking guys that had that have that have just got out of the state prison for murder you know you're like you know you're eating with guys that have you know killed four people or you know and you're like oh yeah old man jim he's he's all right they're like yeah you know he's got a life sentence in a state much, you know, oh, he's fine, you know, um, but yeah, you, you

get used to it. And people are people, you know, they've, most of the guys that, well, I'd say most of the guys that are locked up are, you know, a lot of them are just, you know, scumbags. But, you know, for the most part, a lot of them were just in bad positions. They did, they, they didn't like, look, most people, you know, they go right back to what they feel comfortable with you know yeah like that that's how you're gonna you know they get out and they recidivate because because when they get anxious and they're desperate they go you go back to what you know so next thing you know they're walking into a bank and saying give me the money or they're they're meeting their buddy and saying you know I need some money and the guy says well like

I can give you some some dope to sell and yeah where the average person would think you know I'm going to work two jobs I'm going to cut my bills I'm going to this but that's not really in there. That's not in the real house. I hear it. I hear it. But yeah, you do. You get used to it. Just like you said. And then when you leave, you feel super uncomfortable. Yeah. And you and I look back now and think when I left some of the things that I did in the way I behaved, I'm like, boy, you must have sounded like a maniac. But it made sense at the time. I give you a funny example. It's, um, I worked at a gym. Mm-hmm. And anybody who's listened to my channel before has probably heard this story.

But I worked at a gym and, you know, I was in the halfway house and they give you a bag lunch, right? They give you, you know, whatever. It's peanut butter and jelly or bologna or something. They give you like, you get like a bag of chips. They give it to me. And I'm eating it. Now, I'm trying to save every dime I can because I got out of prison with virtually nothing. Right, right.

So, you know, when everybody's going ordering lunch, you know, I'm like, oh, no, I got a bag of lunch. Well, after a couple weeks of working at this job, this one woman, her name was Leanne. Leanne goes, Matt, you're always eating like the baloney sandwich. And she's like, why don't you just, she just look, I'll, I'll buy it. And she goes, why don't you just order lunch? And I go, because I'm trying to save money. And, you know, and that's, that's eight or 10 bucks. And I've got a bag lunch and it's free. And I'm okay with baloney. I've been eating baloney for 13 years. I'm good. And she goes, and she said, I'll buy you lunch. And I went, Matt, I'll pay for lunch. And I looked at her. And keep mind, there's four or five people standing around, like looking like. And I looked at her, I went, but this is my mentality from being in prison. And I went, Leanne, I said, if you want to buy me lunch out of the goodness of your heart, but you never expect for me to reciprocate, if you're thinking in a week from now, Matt will get paid and he'll give me the money back or Matt will, in two weeks from Matt, now Matt's probably going to buy me lunch. I said, let me make it perfectly clear.

I said, I will never reciprocate. There will never be a time when I'm going to buy you lunch or I will pay you back. So if you're doing this, it's out of the goodness of your own heart because you genuinely just want to buy me lunch. I said, you will never be repaid back. I said, if that is why you're buying it, I said, that's fine. If not, I said, it's no big deal. I've got a baloney and I like it. And she looked at me and everybody's like, and she went, I'm going to get your lunch.

I'm going to write that down, man. I got to put that somewhere. That was great. But think about it. In prison, you don't borrow somebody. You don't run up debt. You don't. And that's how it is.

It's like, you know, maybe if you, you know, your buddy next to you. you, you know, he gives you coffee sometimes and maybe you get coffees. Like, there's little things, but that's because I know this guy. Right, right. And somebody comes to you first and says, hey, man, do you want this? No. Even if I need it, you know, you just don't want to run debt and I want people feeling obligated to me. And I certainly don't want to run a debt that I can't pay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure, man. I can understand. Yeah. When you came, when you came out, you don't want me asking, were you, um, were you just as driven of an individual before you went in or more or less?

No, I was way more discipline and way more driven when I came out. Like, going to the gym in the morning now is a struggle. Yeah. Where before I was just programmed, like the guards turn on the lights at like four in the morning. You get up, you get your coffee, you go get your stuff, you use the bathroom, you brush your teeth, you come back, you wait in yourself to be counted. Then you get up and you go stand by the door so you can go get lunch breakfast. It's one of the most decent meals of the day. then you go to the gym and I was just you know you're on autopilot but after being out here this long like it's so soft out here bro like people don't have any idea how good they have it so you know now like I'm laying in bed at four o'clock I still wake up then but I'm laying there I'm like God I don't want to go to the gym yeah God I don't want to do oh this is horrible yeah for the probably until about a year ago I never had downtime there was always something to do yeah I could be

writing, I could be researching, I could be working on this, I could be doing something to do. Last year or so, man, I'm so disgusted with myself. Because there are times I just dick around, do nothing. I haven't done that in a while. I know what you mean. I get it. I'm actually looking forward to that. But that's a sense of accomplishment too, though, man.

I mean, if you get to that place, I mean, we always say, like, you know, work smarter, not harder. My father always said to me the strong take from the week and the smart take from the strong. And it's, it's funny. That's a great thing. Yeah, you always said that to me. I always had that in my head, you know, because you always try to be strong, strong, strong. And it's like, well, my fucking back hurts, man.

You know, like, you know, I grow up doing construction, my brother, family business. And after a while, I had a re kind of evaluate. And I'm sure maybe you've done this too. It's like, I can't work any harder. I've done the whole, I'll outwork anybody in the room. I've been through that. I don't know about you.

But I mean, to the point where I got myself sick, I can say up 72 hours and crank. I know I can. I've done it. But you get sick and it just fucks everything up and you're like, man, I got to be smarter about this, you know? So in a way, I'm kind of happy you feel weird about yourself because it's kind of a good position to be in, man.

If you can conduct business and take a step back and not have to crank like that. Yeah. I think you're in a better spot than not, you know? You know, I mean, it's like I'm still working 40, 50 hours a week, but I would work I was working 70, 80 hours a week. And my wife will tell you that you're working. You're always ready to work. You're always working.

You're always on your phone. You're answering comments. You're doing this. You're talking to this person. You're scheduling meetings. You're doing this. And it's like, yeah, but I'm doing that while I'm watching a movie. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, well, I'll have two hours between, between this podcast and maybe and another podcast, you know, yesterday. I scheduled all day. But I'm sat on the couch scheduling, you know. So I feel like, you know, it feels weird. Right. I know it.

I hear you, man. I hear you. I got to, I ordered one of those stand-up desks recently because just the thought, the idea of sitting and doing something, whether it's a chair, this, that's like, I got to, I got to go. You know, I got to. I keep telling myself I'm going to do that when I, when as soon as this, when I move, we buy a house and we, you know, I'm still in probation for another four months. But we're going to buy a house and then I keep telling myself, I'm going to buy one of those. Yeah. I do.

I sit down all day. It sucks. I know. It's weird, right? My hunch? Oh. You have a walker treadmills? Yeah, the gym.

Sorry, a desk treadmill. It's one that has no, it's just, it's just a platform on the bottom. It slides underneath between, onto your desk. Mm-mm. Yeah, my brother just got one. He's got a stand-up desk. You pull it right out, you just, you remote control, you turn it on. It just starts, the belt starts going, and you walk while you work.

Man, that, yeah. Right? That's a great idea because I'll tell you something else and this is horrible too. I can't I don't care of a fuck. Like literally I got up to like right now I'm 170, right? I was one like 188 probably 190 but whatever 188 189 and like I was because I don't do it. I sit sit around I work out in the morning but working out for 30, 45 minutes and then doing nothing all day and then eating normal. Yeah, right.

And I'm tiny, you know, I'm five foot six, so I don't, you know, I don't burn off anything. So I started taking, and I, fuck, my, I wish my wife was here. She told me what it was. But I started taking a, you know, I take TRT. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm all, I'm breaking air all over. So, you know, I'm trying to fight, you know, age as much as possible. So I started taking TRT, and that's when I started gaining weight because I started getting, I'm just hungry all the time.

Wow. Yeah. So then I gained, so like I said, I gained like 20 pounds. And then so then I went back to the doctor. I said, bro, you got to give me something. Like I don't want to get off the TRT. You got to give me something. My appetite.

I'm starving all the time. And so he gave me, there's some shot. I forget the name of it. Is it like Ozempic or something? Yes, but it's not OZempic, but it's like an off brand of it. Yeah. There's like three or four different kinds of that. Yeah.

Right. Listen. Works, huh? Almost 20 pounds. And really, to be honest, it really is 20 pounds because I was like 168, 169 a couple days ago. Wow. You know, but yeah, I mean, that's how bad it is.

It's like, and I shouldn't be able to be doing that. I should be more disciplined. But I'm also hungry in a way that I'm just, and it's snacking all day long. And it's just. Yeah. There's only so, you can only be so disciplined. I think everyone has a vice. Hopefully some vices are not as bad as the other, but, you know, you see so many people

on social media telling, telling other people how to be and what to do and all that stuff. And it's like, come on this crack of shit, you know. I smoked for a long time. I recently just quit smoking, thank God. And for people who say, oh, man, you've been through this and you've done that and you're dedicated, your discipline, and this and that. And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I just can't get it.

I can't do it. And he said, kill me my ego that I just couldn't stop this little fucking cigarette. And you know what? I didn't quit. I actually just got tired of it. So I don't get any give myself credit for quitting. I'm like, I'm done. This shit stinks.

You know what I mean? I just stopped. Right. You know? And it's, it's unfortunate. But, yeah, I hear what you're saying, man, it does get, it does get tougher. You know why I don't use the TRT and a lot of people in my business. I mean, almost all use it.

Right. Don't use it because I'm scared of what would happen if I stopped. It kind of freaks me out because I think it'd be like, you tell me, I mean, if you stopped, what would happen to your body, to your mentality? Well, first of all, how old are you? 44. Yeah, you're, you're, well, I don't know, you're, you're at that point where your testosterone starts to drop, you know, I mean, I'm, bro, I'm, I'm, I'm 54 years old. I'm going to be a few months from now. I'll be 55. I know, I'm gorgeous. I'm gorgeous man, Matthew Cox. Wow. You look younger than me, man. Holy shit. Listen, I've, a lot of the, wow, the money I spent, I, I, I stole from the banks. I, I, this is a nose job, a facelift. I've got. had two hair, hair grafts, I've done a lot. The teeth, I did a lot. Like, I spent that money. I didn't save any of it, but I did spend some of it, right? Good for you. So, you know, liposuction.

Like, there's, there's been some work. But yeah, I, you know, so I was going to the gym, and it was really mostly the gym. I was going to the gym and I was just like, like, I'm making no gains. And I'm not, and I'm sore. And I'm not. Yeah, I noticed. Yeah, sore, man. And then I, and then I, also started noticing i would bang into something and there'd be a bruise there and there'd be a bruise there a week later and i'm like what like i barely bumped into that yeah yeah and so you know you're like okay bro you're you're you're like 50 that's when i was like 53 years old or something like i only had been on it like a year or so and i was like bro it's and then i had a guy come on that did uh trt he he was a steroid a big time steroid guy got caught went to

prison came out and started a TRT replaced you know whatever a clinic yeah I told him what was going on he's like oh bro he's like you you got to go get your blood work he's like and you know I did he's like you're going to feel better all the way around like everything you're going to feel more more energetic you're going to sleep better you're going to and everything you said was right the problem was the worst thing the only like said the only bad thing was I'm starving I'm hungry I'm just I was hungry all that now i'm not yeah that's another drug so right right i say i don't want to be that guy to take fucking you're taking 10 pills a day like i don't want to be that guy but yeah yeah i sure man i hear you yeah tired this and that and everything i find myself working out as much as

as much as possible and i still boxed i still spar with a bunch of guys and i fought back in the day for a period um and i find that the more i stay active and work out the less sore i i get if i take off a week, you know, or whatever, if I just need to recoup and get back on the trail. Oh, it's horrible. I fucking die, man. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I'm like, I just got to stick with this shit now.

It's boring. I don't know what would happen if I stopped. I mean, I would just think I would just kind of revert back to, I don't know. We'll see. Hopefully I don't have to. Oh, man. But I look at these guys like, you know, look at, you look at Sylvester Stallone and you look at Arnold Schwarzenegger. And you look at Brad Pitt and you look at.

They're all on stuff like they and they all look amazing. Like I'm going to I'm going to push the envelope as much as I can. Yeah. Yeah, they they have to. You know what I mean? It's it's a it's they made a business out of these things. Their looks or the physique and things like that. Right.

It's, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's a wild business and the demand to, to maintain that too. You know, right. So there's stars, man. Stars are different. Stars are, you know, I know a couple of stars and, and, um, stars are one of two things either they are very very smart individuals or they have very very smart individuals around them because to be a star you have to maintain stardom and i know people that had it and then went away from it and they're in a much happier place once they realize what it

is you know it takes effort to to maintain that right and some people like that shit man you know i don't freaks me out you know what i mean really freaks me out uh thinking about that Well, I have a question. So when you got, let me just just to jump back on when you got out of the military, what did you think, is that the right way to say it or National Guard? You're still in the National Guard when you got back from deployment. Well, yeah, I was Guard, but I was, you're considered active when you're there. You know what I mean? So when I got back home, when I, and I was it, I was, I was stop loss.

So my enlistment was actually up before the war, but they wouldn't let me get out because the war. war was coming right so uh yeah when i got out of the when i was done with the war i was i was out of the military complete so what did you what was your thought process then what were you thinking i'm going i'm gonna stick with the acting i'm gonna keep hammering away yeah because i jumped right back into it the first month i was there we just pulled tower duty and ride-alongs and stuff with the company we were replacing and there was a lot of downtime so i actually wrote a script while i was there and um then then shit just hit the fan and, you know, I had a, I couldn't be that guy anymore. So when I came

home, I jumped right back into being an actor again. And, uh, I gave it about two, three months and it was just way too early. I wasn't, I wasn't right. I wasn't ready. I didn't laugh at the same things I was laughing at. I didn't cry at the same things I was crying. It was just, everything was just off. I remember I took all my clothes out of my closet and I literally just threw everything in one of those donation bins, you know? and I dipped into the money I had saved from war all $29,000 I made in a year of being at war, which is cool. I bought all new wardrobe and everything because I just didn't feel like I fit in those clothes anymore. It wasn't me.

It wasn't me. So like there's this effort to get back to who you were and that just doesn't happen. You just have to kind of accept who you are and then just take this path and figure things out. So not to be long-winded. I jumped in. It just wasn't right. And I actually took a year off and just worked. I just worked.

I went back to construction. My dad just worked. Found my way. I was writing a lot, a lot. And slowly with Shirley, I said, okay, I'm ready to do it again. So I started from scratch. I started community theater, like from zero student films, short films, little parts on TV. And then after about two, three years, I started building up and surpassed

I was prior. Okay. So still, so how long was it until you made the bastard sons? Oddly enough, the bastard sons was a script that I auditioned for back when I was 28 years old when I lived in Jersey at the time. Some young kid at the time, Glenn Rodriguez, real talented guy, auditioned me. I got the part. funding fell through, and we ended up just making a short film together, working together

throughout the years. That was 2008. I moved to L.A. in 2010, Glenn ended up moving out around a year later. We worked more together. Seven years later, I came back to New Jersey. He went North Carolina, and then fast forward to when COVID hit. And I got out. But you're working, you're working the whole time. Working, yeah, until COVID. And my wife's an actress, too. So, you know, our careers are our lifestyles are like this you know what I mean yeah sometimes you get paid well sometimes you don't you go we got to figure things out and and um it's a very insecure lifestyle you know we're consistently unemployed you know it feels when you have a job right like that that that that feeling like you know you got to find work that that's an actor like you're always hungry for work so

you get side jobs and things that you can hustle with so when COVID hit we were an okay spot I was working. Amanda was working. And once COVID hit, I was like, oh, shit. And we just had a baby. Like, she was like three months old, four months old at the time. So, you know, that, that dude in us, you know what I was like, well, fuck this, you know, by hook or by crook, I know COVID's going to end. So I called up my buddy Glenn. I said, what's up with that script from 15 years ago? Because it was about these five guys that were like low level criminals and there was a girlfriend involved. And it was bad. It was written by a 17 year old kid at the time. He was a young kid, you know? Right. I said, Glenn, let me, let me, let me write a movie. Let me write a new

movie, but I want to take the concept of these five guys and, and do my thing. I just have this story brewing in my head, and my mind tends to go with, with crime. And I did and rewrote it. And then that was the bastard son. So it actually started, was derived from a story 15 years prior. And that ended up writing two more screenplays over COVID. And somehow or another matter, all three movies got made. I don't know how the fuck that happened, but it, but it did. What were the other ones. One was, another one was called Malicious. That was like a thriller horror film.

That one is popping too, man. It's one of the most popular horror films on Tubey for like the past two months. And then the third one's called St. Michael of the city that's getting released in April. What is that one about? A small story. Guy comes back in a town after seven years. We're not sure why. But he gets hooked up with his old crew that he used to work with, doing some, you know, unsafery things.

and he gets sucked into the life, and then it turns out there's a big twist why he's backing down. Okay. Yeah. It's funny because the, you would, if you hadn't mentioned this to me on the phone,

I would have never noticed with the bastard sons that, that, um, that you never mentioned the mom. Like you has never said, but the whole time you feel like this is, or, it's definitely,

it's organized crime, but I, you know, well, I don't know. I didn't I didn't get that it was I didn't think mob I just thought organized crime and so you know but when you mentioned it yeah you you never mentioned any of those things you just automatically assume all of that yeah and had had you not said that I probably would have said oh it's a mob movie but you guys never say the mob and and then of course the characters none of these guys you know you've got there's a couple black guys they're like they're they're what I don't know if you're Italian or like nobody you don't they don't seem all italian no no uh i mean i i am italian um my buddy joe sernio he's italian frankie's a mix uh kirk he played marco he's a mix malik's you know black i mean it's it's

it's kind of like um you know people i grew up with so it felt real to me you know especially in the military like it was just so many people i was around that were different different walks of life, different everything. So I was like, well, I want to write a story that makes sense to me. And I don't want to do anything cliche. I don't want to do anything that's a stereotype because I don't think like that. I just like real, real honest behavior. So I just had these circumstances and raised the stakes.

And the movie only takes place over a day, really. You know, it's one crazy day. But yeah, that's pretty much how I approached it and just put these, these individuals into a high-stakes situation just to see how it would play out. But I don't like the idea throwing stuff in people's faces. I give people the benefit of the doubt

when they're watching a film and let them think a little bit. And I didn't want to do anything, you know, the gangs of New Jersey or bottom, boom. You know what I mean? I'm Italian. I'm from Jersey. I didn't grow up like that. I got, you know, hardcore nor the Italian relatives. But, you know, that I think now, Matt, even though I grew up with some people like that, today's day and age, the younger

generation, they may look at that as caricatures other than real people. I know a couple young kids that try watching Sopranos are laughing their asses off the whole time, where those are real dudes to me. But they're like characters, you know what I mean? I was locked up with those guys. And it's funny when they start talking, you're like, yeah yeah oh my god right right this is how he really talks like this is now they really they behave exactly like that yeah like like straight out of central casting right right right it's true man and i grew up with fellas like that too you know and know them well but i just wanted to make something that was real to me and um i could have went another way with it too

and i'm glad i stuck to my guns on it because if i was so focused on and whatnot, that movie, Bastard Sons would have taken a different turn. I could have made something a little bit more artistic and went the Sundance route and went that route with it. But I made that movie for the people that I know and for me too. And the kind of movies I like to see and my friends and my family like to see. And I said, well, I'm going to satisfy that. You know, the artsy-fartsy stuff, it's not my nature to make it. I could have made the choice to make it to, to satisfy industry stuff. But when I hit that crossroads, I just kind of stayed, stayed the course and trusted my gut. I'm glad I did. Yeah, it was, it was definitely good.

It was, and I, you know, so I don't know if you know this, but I, like, when I was locked up, I wrote a bunch of, I wrote several books and I wrote about, on 23, 24 synopsies of guy's stories. And some, some of those synopsies became the books. So I shouldn't say it's not like that plus books. It's some of them, you wrote the synopsies. The synopsis, and then it was like, there's so much information here. So you went ahead and I went ahead and said, okay, well, this, like the synopsis is 15,000 words. Oh my God. I might as well blow this up into a book.

Like I really got, I just have to, you know, when you're having such a problem condensing things, it's like, you know, I don't have. I'm going to condense it for this purpose. But now I'm just going to go ahead and write how the whole blown out scene after scene. And it ends up being, you know, 50, 60,000 or 80,000 or 90,000 or 90,000. thousand words and so you end up with a 300 page book or 250 page book and so i ended up getting a couple of guys in a rolling stone magazine and we option the life rights to the story right so while i'm in prison by the way so and you can imagine how working in prison is i i have how the hell did you manage that man i have a pad yeah and i sit down with the guy and i write the notes and then i

order a Freedom of Information Act to get all of his legal documents and get his, you know, from the FBI or DEA, whoever. Right. And so you get, you get a thick thing in. It takes two or three months. You get it in. And now the things that he doesn't know, you know, I do know. So it's like, he's like, you know, I don't know, a couple weeks later, we got arrested.

And I don't really know why. I don't know how they got to that. And well, now I get the documents three months later, two months later. And I walk and I say, boom, did you know a guy named Pookie? And you're like, yeah. Okay, well, Pookie and this guy, you know, Roo-Roo, robbed a 7-Eleven. Pookie turned on him, blah, blah, you know, and then talk to the FBI or talk to the, whatever, the cops. And then he said he knew a guy that was selling drugs and he could set him up and that guy is you.

Is this your phone number? And they're like, oh, my God. You know, and then so you tell them what happened. But now I know how they got on to you. So I get a more 360-degree viewpoint. Yeah. point of view of the story and i end up writing a story and you know you you obviously you play up certain things you play down certain because it's true crime because it's real right you know i can't

you know you can't make it up so you have to you've got to go with which in in some ways is so much easier yeah yeah um because i don't have to create this story where there's double crosses and these guys are double crossing each other anyway so you just have to play up the you know the basic characters like what makes him sympathetic well what's going to make people root for him you talk to him about his childhood next thing you know he's talking about you know they don't and these guys have no clue right they're talking about their you know their mom was a prostitute their dad was in and out of jail he used to beat his mom the the new drug dealer boyfriends would beat the mother um he just eventually be had a hatred toward toward drug dealers but then again

he wasn't capable of doing anything other than because he grew up anything other than being in crime because he knows brother grew up in the projects and so they at an early age they dropped out of school they started after stealing a car they ended up robbing drug dealers and they just continued to do it and then one of their childhood friends and I'm like yeah but how did you know what drug dealers had money because you guys are stealing 10 keys like that's not a normal drug dealer you're still getting a $200,000 in cash like how do you even know oh one of the guys we grew up with became a sheriff and he became the head of the task force, the drug task force in our town. Holy shit.

Do you see I'm saying? And next thing you know, you're like, for two guys that had a decent story about two brothers robbing drug dealers, just fucking turned into training day. Did you raise this? Oh, yeah. It's a great story. And both the brothers are actually out of prison. They're maniacs. But so, yeah, I, you know, and so I have all these, had all these stories.

So I started optioning them and I got a book deal, a couple of book deals when I was locked up and I got advances. You know, it's funny because like the advance was like 3,500 bucks, but 3,500 bucks in prison. Yeah, my gosh. Yeah. I'm, I'm a millionaire. I believe it, man. I believe it. So that's what I did while I was in prison. And then when I got out, I started optioning those stories. Yeah. And you know, then I, then I getting made. But, but what happens is it's great when you've, you've optioned something six years. ago, and every 18 months, you get a check for seven or eight grand. They want to be up it, right? Yeah. That's great. I can buy my wife an engagement ring.

You know, so, you know, and I'm working with, you know, different people, but I, I know it's got to be like, I can only imagine how, how frustrating you, like the, the story about the guy from 15 years ago, like, how many projects start and they got to, it's funny. I always make fun of the guys when they call me, the producers that call me and said, want to talk to me about this. Okay, okay. I understand. Well, you know, we this, I'm like, look, look, I know how it goes. You want to know if I'm interested. I'm interested. You want to know if the life rights are available. They are. You're going to talk to your team. Then we're going to have another meeting. Then you're going to talk to Brad. Then Jennifer is on vacation. That takes two weeks. He gets back. We have to talk to Tom. You've already talked to Jill at Netflix. And then so I said, in, four months from now you will send me something that says you want to option it for 18 months and then when I'm going to say well how much is the option you're going to say well we don't really pay for options and I'm going to say you're full of shit because I option shit all the time so people do pay for options I was optioning stuff in prison and I'm optioning stuff now so before we get to that so I tell them all that you could tell they're just like you know I'm on the same page with you because like you said yeah the ups and downs uh i i've had so many as sure as many

people have i'm not going to say i got better at taking them i think i just got numb so the highs don't hit me as much anymore but neither do the lows and i just kind of stay steady and similar yeah so similar to what you're saying and how you explain it to them i found myself the past couple years saying to people um you know this and that the other thing can we just fast forward right to the end let's just get right there because i don't have time with this little shit you're this is my you're so talented you're so amazing you know stop stop stop i already believe all that please don't tell me how wonderful i know you're wasting the 10 minutes yeah man yeah it's funny it's funny what it takes what it takes to get there um and it took it took what it took

You know, my mentality is different just like yours is too. And five years ago, 10 years ago, you know, you just kind of go farther. But I find myself, and I think you can attest to this as well, I make decisions a lot faster now. Maybe I trust my gut a little bit more. And even in myself, and instead of letting things go, go, go a little farther. If I get that one little feeling, I'm like, yeah, something's up, you know. And I got to be good with it, make peace with it rather than being desperate for it. It's part of the reason why I started making movies, man.

And I got so fed up being an actor. I've been very fortunate to play leads and main supportings in a lot of independent film. And it's just absolutely crushing when you do, you give so much of yourself as a creative. And then you get in the movie theater and you're watching it on the big screen and you're like, and you just want to hide your fucking head because it sucks. And I went through that so many times And I'm like, I can't keep giving people all of me And not at least be good

Can I tell my mom about it? You know, I'd like to post it on social media And it's like hit or miss one dime a dozen And I'm like, I can't take this anymore, man And coming from a family construction business, I was kind of geared that way anyway, I was fighting it. So when I moved out to Los Angeles, I made up my mind I was going to learn how to make a movie

And I actually reached out to a lot of distribution companies and foreign sales reps that sold movies that I was the lead in. So I don't see actors. And there were so actors doing that. And I'm like, you know, let me give this a go, man. So I pick up the phone and, hey, Joe and so this is Kevin Interdano. I played, you know, Frank and Bad Frank or this and I'm like, hey, what's up? Kevin, how you doing?

I'm like, good, good, good. I said, you know, I want to thank you for putting the movie out and really bump my career up. Dude, I never thought. It was like a kid getting a present at Christmas. Distributors never get called some actors. So for me to say that, the first time I did it, I'm like, hmm. I think I got something here. So, you know, a bottle of wine and a visit in person speaks volumes, and I did.

And I started calling up more and more and more. You know, fast forward five years. Now I have all these relationships with distribution companies and foreign sales reps. And as an actor now, playing a lead from these, especially these recent films, my value has gone up. But I can also sell any movie that I'm in. And I sell friends films too. And I don't take money for that crap. I like paint it forward.

It's hard enough, you know? So, yeah, I kind of enabled myself. I'm like, if I'm going to make movies of my own, I'm going to have the end in mind. I'm not just going to write it and then be like, good luck, see what happens. Before I put pen to paper, I'm like, I know what's going to happen. And I'm going to rewind about two years and then and start now. And that's what I did with all three. And that's how all three got made and all three got distribution.

And that makes one October. Yeah, that, like, I'm at the point where I feel like, Like, really, I've got kind of one last ditch effort. Or what? Well, because I just had a company just option, like 12 of my stories. Wow. Actually, they're reading, they've read them over before, but now they're reading over them individually to say, like, this one,

and I'm supposed to have a meeting next week where they're saying, you know, they're going to break them down over the course. They said, look, we're going to have to talk for like an hour or two because we're going to go through each one. We're going to say, okay, this one, will both these two people, you know, will they option their life right, right? And will they, are they willing to do a documentary? You know, yes. Okay, will this guy do a documentary?

No, he's incarcerated and he wouldn't anyway. Okay, so this one's more of a series. Yes. Okay. This one, so they're going to break down each one so that they know where to pitch it. Because it's a production company that wants to go out and pitch them all. Okay. Now, I also just optioned my personal.

personal life rights. It's a, not to cut you up. It's a production company that wants to pitch to producers to make it. Well, yes, some of them, they're going to do themselves. They currently have eight true crime series out there right now. Wow. Like they're producing eight. Like, they can't do 12.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously, they're going to turn around. They're going to try and, you know, flip it. Yeah. But some of them, they're going to cherry pick, I'm sure. Like, hey, we can do these two, but that's it. Right. You know how it is.

Most of them are even big. production companies can all they they have a bandwidth so um but and then i have a couple other my my stuff that i haven't option yet that i kind of held back um because i was working well i'm working with other people but those options are going to expire or for whatever reason um so but but i feel like like i'm doing this and i'm going to push it you know i'm going to push and then if that doesn't happen then i'm probably going to turn around and start saying okay well then i got to figure out how to make get this made and some of these stories look that's kind of like the story you did right i do you mind saying what the budget was for bastard sons yeah bastard sons

malicious and st michael the city all all three movies were under 100 000 under each okay so you know first of all that's insane but you know the great thing about true crime movies is that you know, you don't really need special sets. You know what I'm saying? You don't need, you know, I mean, you do, but you don't. But it's not like, hey, we have to build the death star. Right. You know, these aren't sci-fi movies.

These are movies where we can, hey, can we use my, you know, my uncle has a huge basement. You know, like we can use my buddy Tommy's condo. Yeah, there's tricks. There's, I've bumped up since that. I can't, my mind, my body, anything, I can't do another one that low again. I exhausted my resources and I'll never ask anyone for a favor again that I can't return. Right. Like yourself, I can't give without, I can't get without giving.

So that exhausted itself. But then again, it doesn't mean I'm bumping up to whatever. I like making things low budget because at the end of the day, the movie's going to make what makes so if a movie makes a million dollars in 12 months that i'm not going to make a movie for a million dollars i'm going to make it for 400 and i'll have 600 right here for me and everybody else so for me that's that's a entrepreneurial you know business decision um i know filmmakers that'll do anything they can to make money and then they just see what happens so well then they end up with just they end up with 10 films that are just dog shit yeah and and a lot of people that are just like you suck you know

I mean, you just lost me a lot of money. And I would never, in a million of fucking years, take someone's money and do that. What's funny about that is I've had multiple producers. This is when I first got out, but I had multiple producers come to me and want to option my life rights or option this story, option that story. And then I'd look into them and, you know, they pitched me. And then I'd look into them. It's like, okay, Mike Tyson is on the cover.

So you paid. And then, you know, I talked to a buddy who talked to a buddy. they were like, look, there's a whole slew of producers that will, they'll pay an actor, 500,000, he'll shoot for three days. You get, use them on the cover. You get to, so they'll raise, you know, a million dollars or whatever, let's say half a million dollars. They give Mike Tyson 200,000.

They pay themselves 200,000. They made the movie for $100,000. They sell the movie for almost a million dollars, or maybe they just get their money back, but they made 200,000, and they make two of these films a year. Yeah. You know, so, and, you know, Michael Douglas is on the cover. cover. He gets a million dollars. He gets, you know, they raise three million. Their, their investors get their money back. They keep going. But in the end, you don't have great films. Right. So, and,

you know, so I don't want to do that, but I've, I've had those producers contact me and I'm like, okay, you had this guy on the cover of this, this guy on the cover of that. I rented the movie. I'm sorry. I'd rather not have my film made. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not going to do that. It's tough, man. And I, I respect you for saying that because you could very well do it and and pocket some change and everything, but I've been in bad movies as an actor where I had no control. It's a bad fucking feeling, man.

I mean, as you know, making a film, there's so many spokes in that wheel. And for reasons outside of yourself, many reasons, anything could go wrong or just not be up to par, and it reflects on you. I got sick and fucking tired of that. So I'm very picky when I get a role if I audition

or I'm fortunate enough to get offers here and there. I'm very picky about who I work with because it represents you and right you know uh going the route of doing something yourself i find so rewarding i am built for it because like yourself i i work nonstop anyway so it's not like i'm going to start making movies and then sit back like i kind of like overseeing it and knowing that i'm hiring the right people for the job to make something that's this but what you're sacrificing and it's what went through with sons um it's really interesting matt because i made a movie that is not star power driven.

It's not big budget. It doesn't feel cheap. It's just not big budget. There's no reason to have explosions and shit. But I got rejected by almost every single film festival I submitted to. Because the movie I made and because some things, some people might find offensive. So be it. I'm from Jersey.

It is what it is. That's what the movie is. But then I turn around. I get picked up by one of the biggest distributors in Hollywood. Right? I picked up by one of the biggest distributors in Hollywood because I don't have star power, movie star power, like his other films.

I don't get a trade announcement. I don't get festivals. I don't get these variety and deadline and this and that. I don't get this big theatrical release. So what am I left with? I'm left with a knock on wood, a good movie thanks to everyone that was involved, something that catches on.

And something that kind of spit like wildfire. But in order for it to do that without a marketing presence, I mean, I'm sorry, without a star power presence, I needed to capitalize on the marketing and get in front of the right people. So thank God we had a lot of really good reviews. People are respecting the review business to drop some reviews about this movie. And then Tom, Tom Lavecchio got involved. And when Tom got involved, that's what took Sons to the next level. That's what took up. I was going to say the, uh, the, the business. model that you just you know you've talked about five minutes ago which is the you know

it you know making those phone calls to get connections with distributors to eventually get to a point where you can start producing something and knowing that you can distribute it to that five year model you got to admit like nobody wants to do the five year model like it's it's like um i think it's jeff bezos who said like most overnight successes take about 10 years yeah nobody want they don't want to wait 10 years they don't want to wait 10 years they don't want to make those phone calls they don't want to they don't want to do that and and i i get that because i had a certain i had a certain you know thought in my head of how things would go but just like like you said i mean i was supposed to fly out to l.a and meet with Blumhouse yeah yeah that's great two weeks late

two weeks before i'm supposed to go and this was a series based on a con man me it was me going to prison It was kind of like an orange as a new black where I go to prison. But instead of Piper, it's me in prison. I'm supposed to be there. And I start writing guys' stories. So as I write your story, you kind of then enter my orbit. Now you're one of the reoccurring players. So it would have been like that.

And listen, I'm supposed to fly out COVID hit. Oh, man. And then they put me off and put me off. And six months later, I finally got one of the guys on the phone. just tell me that it's not happening. Sorry, Matt. It's so many things got pushed back. It's like, okay, that's fine.

But nobody wants to tell you no. Nobody wants to say fuck off. They want to hang on. So no one else. Yeah. So no one else will grab you. You know, as long as they can.

And I've had that happen multiple times, you know, got to deal with, um, uh, gosh, what was it? Discovery channel. Next thing you know,

it gets bought out by like Disney or somebody and they, you know, and then, you know, the people you were dealing with, two of them aren't there in a week. And then you're like, I thought we had a deal. Oh, they're shifting things around and okay, we're good. You know, like those things have happened.

They happen so much. And I always say, oh, man, we're, we're in a business where we are as creatives expendable to someone in a power position. I don't even feel like I'm in the business. I feel like I'm the outside of the business trying to get in the business. Yeah, it's an odd feeling. It's somewhat empowering doing your own thing, soup to nuts. I can deal with it being an actor.

I'm a creatively impassioned person. So just being an actor, that's one solo singular focus of a career that I've come to terms with how that goes, right? And it's going fine. It's just not enough for me. And it's not enough for other people too. But knowing that I can make a film

from concept, creation to the end, it kind of gives me a place of like in this crazy business a place of solidarity to stand on my own and not feel like I'm a cog in the wheel if I can do something outside within that system but entirely my own and find a way to make money doing it and then make people that invest in me make them money and then we do it again you know so it's almost like I'm within this big business model but I'm not relying on other people right you know what I mean That's a good feel. It's an empowering feeling in an absolutely insane business where are they going to call me back? Are they going to do this? You can do that? That I get the part that I get. And everything involves somebody else. And that fucking shit drives me nuts. That someone else has power over me like that. So I'll deal with it as an actor. I chose that that career. And that's my thing. But I don't mind I don't mind turning the creative wheels the other way and actually having like running a business within it too. You know? shoot i was going to say i'll i'll talk to you after about yeah i have a yeah because i was

i was going to say because there's one of the 12 stories i want to say was yeah it's one of the ones that's been you know option but you know they've got 12 of them they're i'm sure they're going to want to get rid of the you know some of them obviously um but i was going to say because some of them are so and they're all you know what's great is first of all this is just a synopsis they're all true like you can look up you can look up the articles you can you can order the freedom i have the freedom of information act you can look at the police reports you can look at the names the dates um i have one about a guy named jamar towns a black guy who was raised in the projects never been in trouble he's had a friend that was named mike who who

had been in trouble like he had a felony well mike when you know jamar had tried to be uh he He went to school to be like a, you know, EMS, you know, an emergency, you know, like a, whatever, the emergency guy. Right, but he couldn't pass the test. Doesn't know why pass the score, you know, got great grades. He's like, I don't understand. I took it twice. And every time you take it, it's four or five hundred bucks, like, I don't have the money. He's like, passed it, you failed it twice.

He's like I said, I'm not, I'm done. And his buddy Mike goes, you know what you ought to do. You can get a, you don't have a, you can, he was in Florida. You can get a concealed weapons permit. You get a concealed weapons permit. you can go be a driver for one of these companies like whatever they call them all the security yeah the one he went with was called cash logistics which is like the third largest one like Loomis or so he said they make good money he is and if you stay there a little

bit they'll they'll raise you up he said maybe we could get into a position where we could rob the place he was and I kind of laughed about it Jamar was kind of like kind of like laughed about it. He's like, he was like, yeah, you're right. He was, well, they make good money. And you really just to stay there for six months or a year. And he went, he said, honestly, he said, like, I didn't, I knew he was serious, but I didn't think he was serious. He's like, Mike's been in trouble before he sells a little drugs here, a little here. He's, but he's always had a job. So, so Jamar goes and gets his concealed weapons permit. And he does get a job. And he becomes a driver. And he notices that periodically, some of these guys that have been,

there five years eight years would show up one day when they go to turn in the bags and they scan them right they're like you're missing a bag they're like what no let me check the truck goes and looks in the truck comes back and goes i don't know they must maybe they didn't give me one they're like well it says there's six of them you got five he's like i don't know what to tell you okay he goes so i write it he says you write it down on the log he was the next day i got this is when he goes there's different jobs and they were training train everybody on all the jobs you know so the next he gets called into like the manager's office and they're like you wrote up this what happened he tells him what happened he's like okay he's like why he's like well i mean it was like i forget what the amount was it was

60 grand or something he goes that was 60 grand it's missing the bank says they gave it to him he says he didn't turn it in he's like the the driver of the truck said they never stopped so we don't know where that bag got lost and he's like huh he goes they never fired the guy nothing he said about two weeks later he pulls in and like a new uh a brand new motorcycle and he looks at him he kind of looks at him and the guy is like what's up and he goes he goes damn he's like i mean was blazing about it he was never fired him and another time he said a girl did the same thing like 40 50 000 he goes but when she left the back of the truck and went up she goes she actually walked she she had a big coat and he said she walked to her

car and came back and turned in the bags and one of the bags was missing and he said so They checked the cameras and they were like, she went to her car. So they called the police. The police went. They searched her car. They found the bag. They didn't run. He was, they did not charge her.

They just fired her. He was because they don't want the, they don't want the to know that people are stealing. Oh. And they got the money back. They said, yeah, you're, you're just done. Well, here's what happens is eventually his buddy Mike goes and finds a couple of guys that have already been to federal prison for bank robbery. So Jamar and he's so Jamar tells them they have a meeting and Jamar says look if you stop the truck on route

he said and just pull out with guns he's like we're going to open it we're going to open the back we're going to give you the money he said the he said the guard is I will you know either the driver or me is we're not I'm not getting to a shootout right right right he said nobody cares we're all making like 13 bucks an hour. don't care. He's like, it's not my money. He says, and they tell you to give up the money. Yeah. So he said, there's some guys that will get into a shootout. Like they want to be in a shootout. He's 95% of the guys. He said, don't. And so he told them, look, stop us on this route at this time. Set himself up. Did you write this man? You have, oh, this is all done. So

script as well. It's a synopsis. I don't, it's not in a script. I don't know how to write script. Right. Nice man. Oh, listen, it gets better. So real quick, what happens is this. I'll, I'll sum, it up they can't seem to stop the vehicle like the driver just drives around him he's like instead of pulling right up to the thing they they give him like 20 feet he drives right around like they pull up the he just happens on two different occasions another time they're supposed to stop him they're supposed to like get him like in the parking lot he's like they fuck that up he is another time he so finally what happens is this he is they're actually changing the the depot from one depot to a new depot he is he said there's no way you're rob in that place he's but

by this point, I'm a manager. He is, and on like Thursdays or whatever the day was, he said, it's just me and another guy. And usually the other guy says, can I leave? And they, and he lets them leave. He says, and as the trucks come in, it's just me and the truck driver and I scan it. So it's me in the depot with $10 or $20 million. He goes, you're supposed to lock the locks, but nobody does. We just leave them cracked a little bit.

Or we shut them, but we don't, we don't redo the time thing, right? He said, we just leave them. He said, so what happens is finally he tells these guys, listen, we're moving to another depot. The last chance you fucking idiots have, and they are idiots, the two guys. He has the last chance you fucking idiots have. He didn't talk like this. He's actually just a very nice guy. He's like, the last chance you have is that on Thursday, I'm going to be there.

The trucks are coming in. I can call you on a drop phone, let you know. When nobody's there, I'll take the garbage. out at this time you guys can be in the parking lot and you can grab me with a gun bring me inside tie me up go i'll leave that both of these safes unlocked you take the money out of the safe throw in the back of your vehicle and leave you'll get 10 million dollars so they're like and he's supposed to get um a third i was gonna say yeah what's his cut yeah his cut was supposed to be yeah so they say um okay so what happens is they it works exactly as planned he calls them he walks out to take the garbage out

It's just him. He told the other guy, hey, you can go home. It's just me. I'm waiting for two more trucks. No big deal. Guys,

like, cool. So he walks out, they grab him, bring him inside. Now, there's a whole bunch of things. One of the guys pistol whips the shit out of me

because I thought he was going to kill me. Oh, God. He went that far. He went that far. He's like, I passed out. Like, I'm bleeding. Like,

he's like, of course, he wanted to make it. He's kind of saying like, oh, I need to make it look real for you. You know, but he's like,

they tied duck tied me up he lay them down they go into the wrong safe they only get like three million they leave like seven or eight million they're complete idiots if you want listen to the whole thing you realize they're just complete idiots what ends up happening though is the the FBI shows up they get away the FBI shows up they question Jamar they question a few people it just looks like he's robbed they don't really believe it something's not quite right anyway what What ends up happening is, um, his, they end up paying, giving him like $100,000. And keep in mind, they drop it off to his sister on the side of the highway. She picks it up. And then they say, oh, well, your sister must have robbed you.

We gave, we gave her a million dollars. And he's like, bullshit. So his sister's like, she drove straight here. My sister wouldn't do that. So the point is, is what they end up saying is his buddy, Mike is going around saying, I'm going to find that money. I want that money. These guys ripped us off and he's telling everybody. So they, put a hit out on Mike, they kill Mike, his best friend. Then they go to kill Jamar. Jamar ends up being a thing where he gets away. There's like a shootout. There's a chase. It's a whole fucking thing. But he gets away. Eventually, he runs out of the $100,000 and he decides to rob. He robs one of the trucks himself. Gets away, runs, they chase him, a helicopter chases him.

they end up grabbing him he gets arrested goes to jail the fbi agent comes to him and says look we know these two guys robbed you in the in the in the um at the depot we know them you're done on this one you're getting 10 years they're you're getting 10 years on this one done because he fired his weapon he's like you fired the weapon you got the money you're getting 10 years he was but you could do way is you could do less time and we won't charge you for the depot if you just cooperate against those two guys because they've been in and out of federal prison their robbers they're a the whole group of robbers just testify against them and he says no i'm not going to do that and they said okay well you're eventually going to get charged when we arrest him he's like i'm

not going to do it i'm sorry i don't know what you're talking about i don't know anything so he takes the 10 years he goes so six months later they arrest the two guys for the depot robbery they both cooperate against Jamar and say he put the whole thing up. He gets an extra 13 or 14 year. I think he ends up with 24, 25 years.

Those two guys are out right now by the way. They only got a few years. They're out already. He's got 25 years. Matt. Bro. Please don't let someone write this, dude. It's all real. And I mean, look, there's matter of fact, there's video. See, you don't

do documentaries, but this would make, but Here's the whole thing. Think about how many characters you've got. You got like five characters. You want to know the other funny thing? The FBI agent that was in charge of the case, while I was writing the case and ordering the Freedom of Information Act, he wouldn't release the homicide report because they know the two guys, one of the guys' name is Dewey, the main guy. They know Dewey had had Mike murdered. I met a guy in Coleman that knows the guy that murdered murdered Mike. So I had talked to him saying, hey, you know, there's a guy, Jamar here.

I know that you're from his area. You're kind of a part of that crew. Do you know so-and-so? He says, yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I start talking to him and he says, oh, yeah, yeah, he's like, yeah, the guy that killed him is so-and-so. It's so-and-so's cousin. He's in prison.

I order the state records, and I find out he was out of prison at that point, got arrested a few weeks later. So the FBI agent called, so the FBI wouldn't release it, but he remembered my name. And the FBI got a copy of my story when I put it on my website. So Jamar still locked up. I get out and probably six months ago I get a phone call from the FBI agent. And I say, hey, what's up? He said, I read your story.

I said, yeah, I remember you. I said, you wouldn't release the homicide report. He's like, well, it was an active investigation. I said, right? And he said, but it seems you didn't need it anyway. You still wrote the story. And I said, yeah. And he goes, so my question is, you.

talked to this guy and he told you the name he goes you talked to this guy is did anybody ever tell you who who who uh hired the murder I said yeah do we how do you know that and I said oh so and so told me and I go it's in the story and he goes no it's not and I went I said oh there's a backstory which story did you read and he said oh I never read the backstory where is it so I told him where it was he went he clicked on it he read it he came back and the guy's name's Marvin and he was like so do you think so and so and so will talk to me I said he wouldn't at the time I told them to talk to you, but we're locked up and, you know, you're not, you're not supposed to cooperate. And I said, but I said, he may now. I said, because now you could probably get him

straight out of prison. And he goes, well, I'm going to fly out there and talk to him. I said, bro, let me know what happens. So I don't know, I don't know what happened. He's called me. The story's on my website. It's called, it's called cash logistics. It's got a picture of Jamar. It's a great story. And I only need a few players. You very few, no more than you already had. I got to ask you, man, why, why would you give that to someone else to me? I didn't know you. And I can't do what you're doing. I can't.

And everybody that reads these stories, it's the same thing. It's somebody, they got to talk to Jennifer, they talk to John. And usually the people I talk to have been documentary people. And Jamar's still doing his time. He doesn't get out to like, like, fucking 2035 or something. You have a really good thing going. And the fact that the industry in certain regards is opening up their arms to you is a sign and a testament to your talents. Let me throw this at you. I'm not making this about me, but I just want to give you something I went through, which is why I will never fucking do it again. And I've had many never again moments in this business. And I'm sure you've had them as well. This is mine. It might shed some light on you. I grew up in a family construction. business in Jersey. The first month I was in Iraq, I was in my bunk and I filled up a journal with a story. And that story was about my life and the upbringing I had and the fellas I hung

around with. And I embellished more of the story in a way that my friends and I were leaning that we may have went this route into essentially what was at the time. would be at the beginning of a gang. Right. Doing, making money illegally. That's it. So the whole essence, the name of this movie was called Blue Collar Boys. And the whole idea of Blue Collar Boys was, at that time in 2008, when the money crisis was going on and the, you know, the hard, the worker man was getting beat down and all that stuff.

How would a gang start today? How would a mob start today? And it starts with a couple rebels that just had enough that were smart and figured it out. And like, oh, we could actually make money doing this. that's what the movie was I wrote The new Bimo V.I. Porter MasterCard

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who's the most honest, hardworking, humble man you'll ever meet, and essentially my friends. But I didn't write it to play the lead role. I wrote it to play the second lead, who was essentially my best friend in real life. It was a fucking maniac. So when I wrote it, at the time, I wasn't confident in writing a screenplay,

even though I had the story all there, and it was obviously very personal to me. I did a couple short films with this dude. He's not even a dude. He's a piece of shit. And I brought it to him. And he, with utmost confidence, promised me that he could write this script and make this movie as his first feature. Make a long story go, he failed.

He crumbled. And the movie got made by hooker by crook. It got made. I dumped all the money I put into Baghdad in this movie. Literally, I just kept in a separate account. That $29,000 I made being out in war, that wasn't like I won that, put it all on black. That's special fucking money. I earned every cent of that shit.

I put into this movie, Blue Collar Boys got made. By the time the movie was in the editing room, myself, my brother who helped produce it, three other guys, four of the guys, all pulled our name off the project and wanted no association with this egomaniac. he completely went maniacal and held everything himself, did what he wanted to do, made all the business decisions, and not being smart enough at the time. Every movie has its own LLC. He had a business at the time and me not knowing any better. He's like, well, we're going to finance this now, right? We were going to co-finance it. I said, yeah. He's like, well, just cut the check to my company. He had a business already. I was like, well, shouldn't we do like an LLC for the movie? And he's like, no, no, no, we're good. I'm like, okay. Here's your check.

I literally, because of lack of knowledge and lack of belief of myself, gave somebody not only a good movie, a good story to go with, but a piece of my fucking heart. And that movie, if it was done slightly different, it still came out pretty good. It had the worst release known to man, which is why I had one of those never again moments, especially with bastard sons, which is why Tom Levecki is a godsend to me. it just came and went and it's a good movie and no one ever heard about it i'm almost glad because then this motherfucker would have made money but i i you know uh because of the selling of it but matt this this story is so unique if you give you are perfectly well capable of writing a script and making it your own if you just knew the right people and had the right people around you rather than writing the story, getting something, you know, an advance or whatever,

and then someone else can go take it and do their thing and take it to the bank. And you're just kind of left there like this. Now, there's not wrong. If that's what you want to do, man, by all means, you know, you've been around a block more than I have. But holy shit, if you really want to put your thumbprint on something, say, no, I'm going to fucking ride this one out and possibly make money on it and do it the right way. There is rules to this game. And if you follow the rules, you know, I look at it like this, man.

making making a movie is kind of like painting remember when your kids are like painting in the numbers like my daughter has that shit right you got the little picture of a dinosaur or whatever and it's got this one little area this little area and it says one two three one is red two is orange okay making a movie reminds me of that it's this palette that you have to work within that palette is the genre you can be creative and color it however the fuck you want that's that's what makes that picture good where you can just follow the rules and do one is red two is black three is this but if you are as creative as possible within that like a simple story like this i was creative as possible and interesting as possible within a very simple story that's what puts it up

and then the genre you choose puts it there and then the people you choose puts it there if you follow these rules kind of like these guys you were talking about where you know we'll get nick cage pay him to raise three you should put that in her pocket make them it's like that that wheel you know what i mean it's the wheel there's a system for that too that's kind of frowned upon a little bit the movies aren't that good but if something i'm listening to you talk about it and you know i i think you're an impassioned person as well and if something fucking tickles you a little bit man don't deny it if there's something about that story you're like i could see this happening fucking do it man don't get somebody else well first of all I've already they it's already a part of a package they have nine but they have nine months you know what I'm saying they have nine months and I signed the package signed it a month or signed it a month ago like you got eight months like we're just now having so you know will they extend it that's fine they'd have to pay me again but you know and will they do anything I don't know and could I can I bring somebody to the table and say hey this is what we want to do and you know that's possible they just knew that they reviewed my stuff and they

said, look, and honestly, every one of these stories is super unique. You have to understand the position I was in. Yeah. There's 2,000 inmates with a 50% turnover rate. So I'm meeting, there's three, I'm coming in contact with 3,000 people. And after I got the first, this group of guys in Rolling Stone magazine, guys are coming up to me. You know, guys are walking around the compound, reading the article, looking up and seeing me and going, hey, you know, the guards are saying yo bro that was a great article and i'm like that's cool you know and so i've got inmates coming to me going cox cox you guys i never talked to i didn't talk to that me people and i they cox and i go yeah what's up and he listen my fucking roommate just got here last night you can't believe you got

to talk to him i'm gonna bring him to where what's what unit are you in and so every every other day i'm hearing guys stories and i'd hear some stories and you know i'd hear the story and i'd be like you know I get it you're raising the projects everybody you knew was a drug dealer you started selling drugs you that you know your mom your dad you're this you're that you know your cousin you know there was somebody got caught they wore a wire like they tell me their story and I'd be like and I get it and it's a tragedy yeah and I'm sorry but I could throw a rock and and bounce off of four guys that have that story here like it it's been told a hundred times so there's nothing unique about it. You know, and I'm sorry, and you should write that. I always say you should

write it and I'll help you. If you want to write an outline, I'll help you do it, but I can't, I can't dedicate three to six months of my life to that, you know, because I'm putting up the money to type it out, everything costs in prison, to type it out on core links, to write it up, to do, that's all on me, you know. And then what I would do is I make them split it. I'll give you 50% of anything I make. And if you attach your life rights, if you don't attach your life rights, then you get nothing. I'll still write the story, but I'm going to keep the story. smart man and and of course these guys are would would absolutely bro where do i sign yeah they've been telling the story for seven years they're getting out and five like they they just like i had guys

walking up to me every other day saying cox i just read that story you wrote you know um whatever cash and coke or american narcos you know uh do you got another you got another one like that but a drug story and i'd be like yeah yeah i got a drug story hold on i'd go upstairs and give it to him it'd be 10 pages and he'd read it and bring it back and hey you got another one i heard you wrote one on so-and-so yeah i got so all the stories are unique because i only wrote unique stories even if they at first i didn't want to write drug stories at all but i a guy came to me and he pitched his story and i'd had several pitch to me and he pitched it in such a way that i was like it was it was a very unique story and that's actually those guys i got into rolling stone even though it was

a drug story um but here's what i'm thinking that whenever i think about that story um the cash logistics one because listen the guy is so sympathetic like his everything about his story his his his plight is sympathetic and he's not a bad guy um is that all like because everybody in the story's black so to me you could fill it with just hip hop guys you know you could fill it with guys that are like, look, I'll do it for next to nothing. I have a following. I'll do it for nothing just to be in. And they'll bring their, they'll bring their people with them to watch. If you couldn't get a big time actor, maybe you get some guy who's going to be big time actor. Well, the business is changing, man. I mean, you know, what used to what used to be about talent

and box office value, the theatrical model is so on its ass right now, film distributors and foreign sales reps, they can't even give you an accurate thing. They really can't. It used to be like, hey, I got three actors I'm going to cast. Tell me what your high and low buy is once the movie's made if you were going to take it. They used to be a give you a give you. You know, like they would take it straight up numbers. Now it's like, maybe this, we don't know, but they try to save their ass, but they don't know.

And I've spoken to a couple big distributors and oddly enough social media numbers. They hope social media numbers matter. They hope. Sometimes it translates and sometimes it doesn't. If you got a hockey player starring in a movie, you know the hockey audience might not like that player in a movie you know i mean uh frankie's i'm looking behind me frankie's audience um it's his first movie frankie never acted before he did a commercial years ago but him and half the cast is not actors for that realistic feel i wanted um i barely

had any money to do this movie man everyone did me a solid jumping in because you know i'm very grateful they they believed in me enough to do it and want to be a part of this but everyone's audience include these Frankie's. I had no idea. And I didn't bank on it either. They love the idea of him being in a movie. I was like, this is great. You know, he's been doing podcasts and everything in support of the film and Roger as well and Malik. And, you know, it's funny how it translates. But social media numbers, if they're real, it could translate. So you don't even necessarily need a star anymore. If you have someone that their audience wants to see them in a movie and you get collectively a bunch of them and you get the right marketing company behind it right i didn't need a theatrical release i got

five cities that's i didn't need the big you know amc stuff suns popped on its own it just people started talking about and tom pushed it out to he didn't force anyone or bend anyone's arm he just told them about the movie and people were just hitting me up like crazy man it was wild so yeah you got something there man you got something there i hope selfishly for you they don't don't take that story. Does that sound right? The problem is every story is like that. I have to be with my friend. Okay, in Bastard Sons, the dude that came out of the red car, his name was Guy. He had the mustache. Real brass. Was it, it was muddy. The car was parked in the mud and yeah, yeah. It's my buddy Chuck. That's Chuck McLean. Chuck is one of the most

sought out writers in Hollywood. He's the creator of City on the Hill, Ben Affleck. hit him up to create the movie, the Showtime series with Kevin Bacon. That's how I met Chuck because I was on it. My wife was a series regular. We've since become friends. He's a fucking character. That's Chuck.

Whoever you saw in that movie. Yeah, he was a smart ass to that. He's like, how do you want me to be? I'm like, just do you, brother. Just do you, you know? And he was great. Never acted before. I cast appropriately.

Yeah. Comfortable. And he just went with it. Well, Chuck has written with, he's been asked to write with, Sean Penn, Stallone, Jason Mamoa, Russell Crow. They seek him out. He's one of the best writers around. He would, man, he would eat your stories alive if you guys talk. And I'll put you in touch. We'll talk after this, man. He's incredible. He's incredible writer. And if you're going to have anyone write something for you, but keep it internally or have someone involved, that's the kind of guy. When the time comes, Matt, let's say you did something your own and it takes a little time, you know, a year and a half from now, you're yelling action or someone else is, your popularity is rising very quickly. And it might not just totally be reliable on the cast you bring. There's other

factors, depending on the genre, how you stack it, what you do. So we'll talk, man. I'd love to see something like that of yours, you know, come through for you. I can control. I can already hear in the comment section. So like, how did Matt Cox make this about him? No, this is interesting to me, man. I know, you know. No, listen, guys are vicious to me. They're like, this guy interviews, this other guy. No, no, no.

This is just as much interesting as me as hopefully it is for you and everyone listening, man. I hope. But yeah, man, it's a business that will take advantage of you, hook, line, and sinker, man. And that's why I love the fact that there's streaming platforms. Remember when it was just Blockbuster? Yeah. Fucking world was much better when there was just Blockbuster, man. These streaming apps popped up and everyone in their mother,

and now they're buying this and that. But here's what it did do. What it did do is it make it possible for someone like me, who's not a Hollywood actor. I'm just a steady working actor that made a career out of acting in independent films. It made someone like me who just has good business sense as well, make an independent film. And like the one behind me or a malicious,

when they get released, I can compete with the big boys. Something like that movie right there, when Bastard Sons got released, it popped that opening weekend so hard that on Amazon, or I'm sorry, iTunes, it was like Oppenheimer, Bass and Sons, and it's something else.

Nice. And I was like, wow. Like that's the power of a streaming service. I'd have to go through big Hollywood this and Hollywood that. That's the streamer saying, we support independent artists and filmmakers, make something good, and we'll put it with other good ones, you know, and then, you know, the apples for where they may.

But you have the ability as an independent, an entrepreneur of any kind to make a film. And if you make it the right way, you can compete and you have that opportunity. You don't have that opportunity going theatrical release. Those are millions and millions and millions of dollars. But for, you know, under $100,000 movie to be next to $100 million movie, you know, so it's possible if you just play the cards right you know you don't you're not sacrificing yourself you're not you just know the game and you do the best you can within it you know what i mean so i feel like i'm pitching you bro my it's trust me i i i you know i need to be pitch and the problem is like i said

like a year or so ago when the channel really started doing well and i i i step back not that i've ever really pitched these stories and i did i have you know if somebody came to me i talked to them they'd option it for whatever nine months they always try to get you 18 i typically talk to them for nine um you know and then you know they give you a little bit of cash and in nine months nothing's happened they go away or maybe they come back and they they do something but they're never going anywhere and you realize that this is my project is now one of five that you're walking into netflix pitching well it's not them not not to cut you off matt i i know let me free phrase that it is them the way that works and and tell me you probably you might know this already is that they're

actually just waiting to get someone attached that warrants the budget. Yeah, yeah. It's not them like, hey, this great story from Matt, we got this great story from Matthew Cox. Let's go find a financier. It doesn't go like that. They're circulating with agents trying to get an actor attached to it because if that actor comes into it, they can go right to the bank and leverage X amount of dollars off him. So they wait. That's what I say, give us nine months or whatever, because that actor might be busy for a little while. You know what I mean? Right. What I've been doing and it's almost like a side business, but it's not.

not because it's this business is I've been benefiting myself, not only the films that I'm getting cast for, but the ones I'm making, because I have the relationships overseas with foreign sales reps and buyers and, you know, Germany just bought this and malicious and Australia and Iceland and all that shit, I'm actually building my own value to be that guy. So when I release a film that I'm playing a lead in, I actually have value enough for my own film to get it sold to the people I know as well and not have to rely on getting a big actor, assigned to it to be able to raise the money you know what i mean yeah most myself in-house but that's what they're that's what they're doing that's why they hold on to it they hope so-and-so freeze up you know

see that's well i'm not that i think i can know how to go about even getting a big actor but i was that's why i was thinking someone that was more like a a hip-hop guy could you know you know first of all i think i can i can get close to most of those guys they see my channel they see the numbers they they know i went to prison they suddenly think i'm cool they want to talk to me. So then it's, it's easy to get in the door. And if you get somebody who's kind of on the upscale and you say, look, I'll give you a percentage of the movie. I can't really pay you. I can pay, obviously, fly you out, put you in a hotel, do that. But I can't pay you, but you can get a percentage of the movie. And then obviously you help, you know,

you help advertise the movie. You help get it out there. Um, so I mean, that's why I thought, and you could also say, hey, look, can we use your mute, you know, you also get to use your music as the soundtrack, you know, that kind of stuff. There's some things that it benefits everybody all around. The movie's great. It's huge. It's huge. If it's not, well, it's fine. You still got a music career. Yeah. You know, if they all want to be an actor. Everybody love love. It's, it's fun. You know what I mean? When something, when something doesn't hit, it ain't fun. But when it gets to that point and someone has a platform beyond that moves people and it's popular, yeah. I mean, people that eat it up. The, let's just say, let's just hypothetically

speaking, since we just met, Matt, and I'm pitching you your next movie that you should do. Let's just say you made this film, right? Because it starts with you, you ultimately are the shot caller. You're the producer. You open up the LLC. You don't let anybody else open up that shit. You're the one cutting the checks. Every decision that's made is on you right now that dictates how good and how far the movie's

going to be. That's all on you. It doesn't mean you have to lift a finger to. produce it if you want to bring someone into produce or it doesn't mean you have to direct it if you bring the right person into direct but it still falls on you being a business owner what happens just like anything else right any other business if you're a first timer in the movie business when you start going to a different tier of actor i'll use myself an example of if someone that never made a movie before but even was kind of known hit me up and it was like hey i have a big following here

and this and that, yada y'a, yeah, I'm making a movie love for you to play the lead. I would immediately look you up on IMDB, look up the film, and see who was attached. And if no one was attached that has actually executed a film yet that performed and did well and was known, I'm more likely than not, unless it was a lot of schado would not do it. Because it's an obvious reason that I've known as there to helmet at that point, it will probably go nowhere and look back for my career and then devalued me. So if you had one or two people on your team when you start that you bring in, those two core people that have been around,

that have made something that is known, performed well, you're on your way. Right. That's when the casting directors look at it, talent agents look at it, everyone looks at it. It's just the door opening thing, you know? It literally, we're making a movie literally is like starting a business from, from ground up right LLC the owner who's the managers and then the employees we take it from there

and if you stack it the right way and you're good you're smart dude you'll you you'll do it the right way if you if you were willing to make this movie or any any any story into a script um yeah we'll talk i won't steer you wrong man i've been doing enough times to know now you know like what to do what not to do and god i like i said i had enough never again moments you know So if that timing ever came, I'm here. Open door, man. Let me know. Hey, if you like the video, you guys, do me a favor.

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