Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Ex-Gangster Shares Mind Blowing Life Story | Da Panda

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Ex-Gangster Shares Mind Blowing Life Story | Da Panda

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Now my whole thing is I got to do it. It's like this. Don't think. If you think you're going to talk yourself out of it. Right. I don't think. I just react. So I punch them right in the face. And eventually it caught up to you. It did. And as we were leaving, there were like four of them on the side of the sidewalk, I guess going to their cars, you know, And at that point, I stuck my nine millimeter out of the window and I let go the entire Mac running like a van like literally blocks the back of the car and swats like jumping out and literally a helicopter is flying above the Benigans, you know, and it's like full on like on me. You know what I mean?

I woke up on the ground conscious on the floor, broken, right? I look up. I can see it. It was like around 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening. I see a street lamp, you know, and like, I was just, I was a practicing Georgia Southern Baptist at the time, but this was the day that I lost all religion. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Panda. He's got a true crime story that spans, I don't know, quite a, quite a long time.

And it's super interesting. he is currently a rapper entrepreneur capitalist and you're going to enjoy the story i appreciate it you guys watching check it out and this is about the best we get you know i'm okay i'm okay i'm i could do it uh okay so um all right so tyler got us here yes and you you've got the we've got the soda uh thank you tyler for the soda all right and um so let's you know what we were talking earlier i know about the story but i mean i typically i don't know if you've ever watched any of the episodes or not but you know i typically like start at like the beginning and like you were saying you know your parents like that that to me is interesting

that you know when your parents came here like to me i've been moving across the world to start a new life is that in and of itself is a journey just my parents story story alone i think is very interesting of like how they came by it was kind of like a multi-capulet you know families that didn't really see eye to eye with each other my father was from a wealthy family my my mother uh was from a loving family you know and they were actually not weren't allowed to see each other they kind of like this was like a secret you know rendezvous secret love love affair and uh and it came along but then it ended up not working out anyway you know what I mean but uh yeah Yeah, so I was born in 1979.

So it was like fairly soon after the Vietnamese War. The Vietnam War ended in 1975. My dad was a part of the military over there. And my mom was forbidden to even see him. But he would like sneak away and they would have their little rendezvous and then I happen. When you say the, okay, so the, so basically they were like, fleeing do they were they fleeing communism or well at that time they were still like dealing with the aftermath of okay right like my dad's family was from a very wealthy family right and they

basically just took everything yeah i was going to say that's not going to work out well yeah you just went down to zero um so they were just trying to figure out a way to survive because i mean they were going in there just basically murking everybody i mean you know you're the losing side it's kind And like, that's how war is, you know, the winning side takes the spoils. So my dad escaped first to America when I was conceived, right? And so then after I was born, he had already made it to America. And then he sponsored us. So then me and my mom escaped on a boat when I was six months old.

I picked up by a Chinese fishing boat. And I was in a refugee camp in Thailand, so I was probably about one and a half years old before I finally made it to America. we were in a refugee camp for a year. Then we made it to America. Soon after that, my sister was born. So I have a younger sister, two years younger than me. But then about when my sister turned one, my parents split. So my mom.

Where did they relocate to that? Like, did they hit California and stay there? They were in Georgia. Well, we're here in Tampa. But yeah, they were. So they came to Atlanta. Wow. Like all they went all the way across the country.

Well, I think, yeah. Because I think my dad was sponsored through a church. Okay. So he got here, and I guess it was based here in Atlanta. Okay. So he was over here working in a, you know, Chinese restaurant as a dishwasher, you know. And when we got here, you know, we were living very poor, you know, Section 8, you know, and very low income. And then, you know, I'm really kind of, you know, my mom and my dad's, the family's always had beef, you know.

so there were a lot of members of my dad's family that were already over here that already didn't like my mom so my mom was already like you know what screw this and she walked out on him with $500 in her pocket and me and one arm you know not in a country she didn't know without knowing the language you know but so but my father actually raises my sister so I have a sister but we literally were raised completely separate okay you know so my childhood was basically you know poor um my mom worked two jobs during the day, sold purses at night, you know, so I'm on the street. Like, I remember coming home from school, kindergarten by myself, like, you know, first grade. Like that's a key kid. Yeah, you know, I just basically learn how to take care of myself, you know. And it wasn't like my father wasn't around. Like, you know, I would still see him. I knew his father, but it was on like a visitational, but I would see him once a month for a

weekend or my sister would come down once a month for a weekend or something like that. but he wasn't really there as a father figure, you know. So, I mean, where did I? Where was I out? I was in the streets, you know, and being in the streets and then, you know, all black impoverished neighborhood, you know, we were looked at as food, you know, picked on or beaten up. So, you know, me and my buddies that I made that were also Asian, you know, just decided

that we're just not going to be prey, you know, so we banded together and, you know, and that's those were my those became my my father figures and we had each other's back i would i would kind of compare it to like you know like a navy seal unit you know you got to trust that this guy behind you is going to be looking back there so that you can't because you can't look back there right you know so these guys became my brothers you know and uh we took care of each other is this like like an established gang or you're saying no this is like eight or nine of us or is this like hey no this is like a no this is definitely an established gang we were uh bloods okay and we were bloods at a time that bloods wasn't little wayne wasn't a blood yet you know but you know so

in georgia most of the african americans were black gangster disciples you know and so we chose to rival that you know and plus we're not black you know so we chose to rival that so you know a lot of the conversations we got into were with a lot of black people, you know, until we earned our own respect, you know, that they, and respect comes very easy. Like I even tell my kids, I was like, you know, once you are in the fight, you won. Because it doesn't matter what the outcome of that fight is, the fact that you're willing to be in it automatically means you won because you just earned that respect that they know

that he's going to go. It's just not going to go easy. It's just, you know, it's not going to happen like that. You know, so that's what we, that's what I had to do day and day out. But my whole life is like that, you know, have always been like earning respect, you know. Well, were there any, I mean, only because I've, I've researched for another story where, like, were there any triads in Atlantic? Are they mostly in New York and California? The triads are very, very small population.

Chinatown here, the Chinatown in Atlanta is very, very small. Okay. So the Asian gangs that you usually would be like either the third world countries. There'll be the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Laos gangs, right? And we networked with each other as well, you know, because sometimes we needed a band together as well. But yeah, we didn't really run into a lot of the triads like that. Yeah, I'm just curious because, I mean, I know that their concentration is in like L.A. I'm sorry, is in California and New York, but I was just wondering.

Right. And the difference with the triads too is the triads basically kind of like just went over their own people. Like these tongs, they would like basically feed off of their own people. You know, they would extort from Chinatown. You know, they're not going out there and doing extortion on Walmart. You know what I mean? No, so like, but with us, we didn't have that.

So literally we had to kind of carve out our own niche. you know what was that uh well we we also had like uh we did some extortion too as well uh but it was like you know burglaries robberies stealing cars uh and this is how old are you i was like 14 13 years old i mean i probably was familiar with a gun in my hand by the age of 12 you know uh like i said like my juvenile record was probably like 30 40 burglaries that they finally decide to just condense into just one when I turned the day after I turned 17 it was charged as adult you know and then it was it was just it was extensive you know and it was it was kind of like sloppy you know what I mean it was like smashing grab we would literally take a such hammer

to the front of a business run in there and grab a stuff I mean we were not really coming up on like some really really big money you know what I mean but it was the fact that like you know we're young kids and and I'm going to say listen eight eight VCRs that you know know 50 bucks a piece split between a few guys is 150 bucks a piece you know what i'm saying 150 bucks to a 14 year old is a lot of money it absolutely was and the thing is funny it's because like my group my crew we would literally go to church's chicken get an eight piece box and each person would get a piece of chicken and a bowl of rice and that's how we would you know we would some of our money together and eight people bought some churches chickens back then was like 599 you know and we could

feed the old crew but um but definitely yeah we were drugs, even in Atlanta now, I mean, if you go looking up the line of like, hey, the bot from the user going on, know who he gets it from, gets it from, somewhere on that line, somebody's going to deal with a slant-eyed person. Right. You know what I mean? Because in Georgia, they're coming in at the top. Right. You know what I mean? So, and I know lots of them, like a lot of black guys And I know, like, yeah, man, my plug is, I, I fucks with you Asian guys. You know what I said? You know, but as an Asian, I always felt like, you know, they say the term model minority or whatever.

With white people, I feel like we're tolerated. You know, we're looking at that as like non-threatening, right? Right. And with black folks, we look at as easy victims, you know? So to me, it was always kind of like a fitting in. So, really, we just fit in with each other, you know? Yeah, I was going to say, like, whenever I think of, you know, Asian, you know, crime, I always, like, I don't think of smash and grabs. I think of more sophisticated crimes because a lot, I mean, it won't, let me back back to it.

That's not necessarily true. It's more, more complicated crimes. Like they'll go Like I did a whole research thing Like on On an Asian crime group And it was a they were triads It was a member of the triad

And I mean It was They were staking out Computer chip manufacturing plants Staking them out They're getting all the employees They've got They've got when they come

They go the shifts How many employees are there They'd watch it for a week or so And then they'd come in zip tie everybody steal 10,000 you know computer chips put them on a couple of vans that they'd rented move them and then go sell them for two million dollars like these were big time well we're also saying the triads right so we're you know we're talking very organized yeah organized that's maybe that's better example of organized resources as well right whereas we are literally

a street gang you know like uh are are our our i uh our organization was not like as defined and as right and you're young yeah we're young we didn't have that like you know chain of command like like like it was now definitely you know we had our respect and that's the only thing that nobody could take from us well that's also kind of what you were you were going for that's the only thing that's you're trying not to be a victim that that's all it is is trying not to be a victim but in that did not be one you had to earn the respect right so it was like an every day of earning that uh so it was just kind of like a little different and plus us, you know, with the Chinese, they, you know, they, they, they, they, they, they, they're within their

community, you know, we are not, we are an outsider within a community, you know, they, they, they are the leaders are the, the beard of their community. Whereas we are, we are not, we're, we are, we are just one corner of a community that really doesn't, isn't even ruled by us. Right. You know, I mean, honestly, I mean, the, the, the projects are ruled by the African, Americans. You know what I mean? It's just that we weren't going to be victims of them. Right. But if you didn't group together, then you guys are prey because you're walking around by yourself. And so you need to be a group. Yeah, we had that. Yes. I was going to say we interviewed a guy, uh, yesterday with the, um, yeah, yeah, they were because they were all that

was a, it was it was like you said, it was an organization, there was an organized, um, Chinese run, um, group that was stealing, cars you know and working with other not they're not just working with just chinese like they're they're branching out to black guys to you know um to other uh asians to Hispanic guys like whoever they're branching out and taking the cars and then shipping them back to china it was super interesting no there it's no difference than the regular chinese now who like they're manufacturing now vietnam does most manufacturing for china right you thought chinese labor was cheap enemy's even cheaper you know what i mean so um you know they're they're very smart in that way you know uh chinese people

definitely know how to use other not i wouldn't even just say chinese i would just say first world asians yeah and it's funny because a buddy in mind he's korean like he hates black people but he his all his business is speeds off of them like he makes go grills and he you know like you know feeds off of them for his income but internally he he hates them right you know what i mean and it's like um but yet they understand like hey this is where the money is this is how to get it and they're just they're just they're still going to deal with who they have to deal with they're not saying no we'll only deal with our kind right they're saying i'll deal with anybody as long as i make money that's the thing about like like china like china's extremely capitalist oh yeah at this point you know

no doubt you know it's under the guise of communism You know, but really, they're, they're definitely running a capitalist system. I mean, even the Vietnam War, I believe, was all based off of heroin. I mean, a lot of people have all these political views about it. But if you talk to the people in Vietnam, you know, they talk about the golden triangle. Yeah. The golden triangle basically... They're to fund the war somehow.

Right. Well, the golden triangle basically was the area that was fertile for opium. Right. You know, and the Chinese wanted South Vietnam's land. you know and because and that you know uh export you know or export import you know they wanted that product and because south vietnam was a french province you know a french um territory i guess so they backed up the north to take over you know and then america steps in to back up the french you know and and and all hell breaks lose and you know and you know they and you know politically

they say this and this and that but technically i mean it is i'm going to say isn't it funny it's funny like all all these wars that are going on these micro wars these you know proxy wars that are going like like it's they've been going on forever they're never going to stop they're always going to be going on it's just never you know there is no like world war one was like the war to end all wars it was the last you know war it was going to stop bro like 25 years later they're fighting again they're fighting another war here that another one like it's never going to stop well the problem with it is i always said that like um you know gangis con hitler uh napoleon all these guys alexander the gray had they were able to take over the

entire world and really just conquered the world we would all be under one government they would we wouldn't have missiles to point to anybody because we would all be one so nobody was the the failure in humanity is that we're we developed the technology to destroy our ourselves before we were able to ban as a species. I think that's that's my saying, you know, because had we had, let's say Hitler won, even though that sounds atrocious, you know what I mean? Like, of course I wouldn't want that. But let's say Hitler won, then the entire globe would just be Germany.

Yeah. And yeah, the government would suck, but it would be one government. We wouldn't be sitting there fighting against each other because we would just be against each other, you know what I mean? It would probably some civil things, but it's still all in one government, you know? And that's the problem now is you're dealing with all these feelings and, you know, helping this person out and helping this country. And it's just too many countries getting in other people's business is what it is. A lot of times it's like, why is America even there?

You know what I mean? Why was America even in Vietnam? You know, like one of the statistics for Vietnam for the Vietnamese wars, there was more American soldiers lost in the Vietnam War than World War I, World War II, and the Korean War. were combined, you know, for what? Yeah, or this little strip of land that you have like no care about, you know what I mean? Like, why were you even there, you know, but you know, a lot of things about that even like opens my mind because I'm from South Vietnam, so I'm considered like, you know, I've always kind of held like some kind of resentment to the North you, oh, you always felt like they took

over. But in the history books over there, Ho Chi Men, which was the leader of the North, you know, he's, he's in their history books. like he's like a hero yeah you know what i mean well the victors write yeah he right the history that's what i'm saying it's it's it's all about perspective right and wouldn't i be as a benemese person shouldn't i be like hey you know what i should be proud that i come from a lineage of warriors that took down america like who else did look at all the resources of you know russia and And China and Japan, they could take down America.

But yet this itty-bitty, little-bitty country took them down. Because why? Because they didn't believe in rules. I mean, they did like, fucked up shit. Don't even wrong. He's tying sticks a dynamite to an eight-year-old kid. That's a that's a fucked up shit. You know what I mean?

But that's where the term guerrilla warfare came from. Yeah. Did you ever see, I mean, I know we're getting off topic. Full metal jacket. No, I was thinking apocalypse now. no i've never seen oh you've never seen a boy i know i'm not even talked to colt i know oh you've got to see apocalypse now like it's it's just brutal marlin brando right marlin brandon and at the end he he talks about what convinced him that he he had to start basically he had to take on the war himself

and stop being confined by the guidelines that america was imposing on him to fight that war and he and what what what convinced him of it was they had gone into the Americans have gone into a village and they'd vaccinated what they thought was a good thing we're going to vaccinate all the children and the um Vietnamese came in I want to say it was the Vietnamese they came in and they chopped the arms off of all of the children that had been vaccinated you know because they they get him vaccination and he said when we came back a week later there was a pile like a three four foot pile of of hundreds of little baby arms.

He said, little baby arms. And he said, I knew right then the discipline that it took to chop those children's arms off. We could never win if we continue to fight based on the, based on the parameters that were being put on us. And so he took his own group of Vietnamese and they started fighting their own guerrilla war. And now the United States sends somebody in there to kill him. even though he's being effective so you have to fight fire with fire right and then and the americans they wouldn't do they couldn't do it that's the problem is that americans were stuck with rules of engagement right right and okay for example like the hocheemen trail right you everybody's heard the

hodgeman trail the hodgeman trail was how the north got their supplies into the south right right and the u.s with new i mean with like napalm and i mean it was all things about this oldjamin trail but if you look at the hodgeman trail the hodgeman trail actually goes into can Cambodia, goes into Laos, because North Vietnam didn't give a fuck about these invisible lines that, like, you know, and if you actually looked at the supplies, they're literally in plain sight, but it's in Cambodia. So the U.S. can't go in there and blow up that supply depot. Yeah, you're fighting with rule. You're fighting, you're constraining yourself with rules and the other party doesn't have any. Doesn't have, you're not going to run. Right.

I mean, and it's always been known that Ho Chi-Men was a big fan of like the Art of War. You know, he was a real big studier of the art war and he understood his enemy i mean even do you know what the art of war is sin sue man uh was a uh you know whether he's uh was a real uh japanese uh japanese chinese chinese chinese general like they're i i saw seeing things that like what they think he some of them think he's a combination of a couple different people and he wrote the book called the art of war which honestly like to this day they use they still use it's got the really simple principles like you've heard divide and conquer dividing conquer is sincere yeah if you're if you're a large you know if what is it um if you're equally matched

fight if you're not equally matched evade if you're more if you're you know um larger than your enemy you know fight like he's got all these rules if you're small be nimble if you're large he's all these different rules for the art of war and people use it in business And he actually looks at it like a chess set, like a chessboard, right? I mean, you do have sacrificial pawns. That kid holding that eight stick of dynamite is a sacrificial pawn to him. You know what I mean? It's just a weapon to use to destroy this tank.

Right. Now, and they understood propaganda. Like, you know, during Vietnam, they would broadcast, the North would broadcast on a radio for black soldiers saying, this is not your war. We're not here to fight you. Look at the people. They're putting you guys on the front lines. They don't care about your life.

They're trying to separate that. They know there's a, there's a problem there. Separate them. Divide and conquer. Yeah. Divide and conquer. Right. And it's,

I mean, even it goes down to the very last day, which is the Tet Offensive. Everybody is the Tet Offensive. Now, Thut is how you pronounce it. That means New Year's, right? So the whole thing about the tent offensive was the U.S.

wanted to have a ceasefire with the North. So they were going to have like this. hey, we're going to have this big, because it's a very big thing that in Vietnam was a very big thing. And they totally didn't see it coming. Right. They were like, hey, we're going to shake hands, sign this document that we're going to have this ceasefire that this day we're going to celebrate and everybody and everybody's going to be good. So guess what? The American soldiers went out there and got drunk and hammered and, you know, thinking it's a free day.

The North comes rolling in and tanks right on, right on. You know what I mean? Overwhelming, like it was just one base after another being overwhelmed. Right. Overrun. This one's overrun. This one's overrun. And then it becomes a cascade effect.

Like you just can't stop how many. Right. And that's the day that the U.S. had to pull out. And it's just like, why would you even like honor a document from a guy that signs it that literally was a dynamite 108 year old kid?

You know, like what would make you believe that anything that this guy says? He's not. He's using anything. He understands that he's going up against. It's like Mike Tyson's punch out. You know,

your little math. up there trying to fight Mike Tyson. You know what I mean? He is going to use any and every opportunity that he can to get one leg up. Yeah. You know what I mean? I was just say you had you had a Hitler which had consistently broken agreements and then you have Chamberlain comes in who was the he was like the prime minister of England he comes in signs a document with Hitler promising like hey we're going to have peace and then there he's like absolutely absolutely he's broken every reman he signed for the last five years and they're like they come back and they're like the the the english are hailing him as like oh you got this signed it's great it's wonderful and even he knew like

this is bullshit like this guy's never going to and within months he invades uh he he invades um within months i think he didn't no i think he already had done that so i think it was in within months he invaded uh uh uh france okay you know so it was like i mean it's just like this like why would you ever honor any any handshake or any deal with your enemy well maybe you could but with somebody who's consistently proven he will not hold his it'd be like signing an agreement with Putin like you're you're consistently lying to us and not honoring your agreement like you so it's like how do you deal with a bully bullies only they only respect strength it really kind of goes back to the exact same thing of forming a small gang why because

these people won't respect me without strength. Right. Because I could fight every day by myself and I'll get that little bit of respect. But if you don't ever get some wins in there, you know what I mean? Right. You're still going to be looked at as a victim, right? So, I mean, yeah, I mean, they came over and they took over. So, like, my parents had to deal with the aftermath of that, you know, like literally

taints coming in and this is no longer your home, you know, like you're out on the street. And so there was a lot of people who escaped and there were political refugees. And a lot of countries, the Vietnamese people are actually dispersed very globally all over the world. I think France took in a whole. There are a lot of Vietnamese people in France because France felt like it was, you know. It was their former colony, right? Yeah, it was the former colony, right? And that's how there's a lot of Catholicism in Vietnamese culture because the French brought in Catholicism to South Vietnam.

And also a lot of French culture with the ice coffee and things like that, the Benyés. and and um where you have to watch apocalypse now i'm so fucking disappointed i'm going to send you the trailer i i know the movie i definitely i definitely will you would love the movie i never know that it was about the vietnam war though i just knew that ron brand oh my most positive it's about the vietnam war i hope it's not about the korean war no i feel like it's about the vietnam it has to be because vietnam war is when it's like when you're talking about like the atrocities you know i mean like talking about crazy they're talking about cambodia in it and they it's it's got to be because Cambodia was run by the Cameroos too by the time like they were definitely it's definitely it's definitely

Vietnam okay it's Vietnam I knew it okay got me second guess on myself and then also like you got to look at like the soldiers like how do you how can you pick out your enemy and your ally when they both look exactly the same you can't like you know what I mean like so a kid comes running towards your tank is that an innocent kid or is that kid's trap with dynamite now you have to make that decision right Now, you're forever going to have to live with blowing a little eight-year-old kid's head off. Right. You know, you have to live with that. You know what I mean? And that's why these Vietnamese veterans that are back, like they're so screwed up. You look at, you know, when we won World War II, it was such just huge celebration. Like that whole, I always think of that portrait, I always think of that portrait that they

have of that sailor kissing that nurse in the middle of New York City, right? Like it was a celebration when that war ended, but when, when Vietnam War, we had some much political unrest here with, you know, with the rallies, like a lot of people were feeling like they were sending sons over there that weren't coming back, you know, for a meaningless war. Right. To them, which. Well, I think it's different to in the United States comes back from World War II. Nothing's happened in the United States. You know, when World War II ended for Europe, like, it's devastated. Like, so do they feel like, woohoo? Like, they might be like, yeah, great. Now we have to rebuild our entire country. Like, they're in a different spot. Yeah, the

great thing about the U.S. is just where we're located. Yeah. You know, I mean, you're literally separated by the Atlantic and the Pacific. It's not that easy to kind of reach out and touch us. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? When Japan did Burrow, Pearl Harbor, that was kind of really the first time somebody ever reached out and touched it and look

how we responded to that. You know what I mean? Like, honestly, if they would have just knew North Vietnam the very first time, and they would probably end it just that quickly too, you know? But yeah, like, that's why everybody feels so some type of way about 9-11 because that's somebody reaching out and touching us on our ground like and you know I was I was actually in prison when the news of

9-11 broke out I remember that I was in my little computer class you know because internet wasn't really even out like that back then but I was saying and first saw the the first plane hit and we thought I was I thought it was an accident you know what I mean and then it was going out. And I could remember even as prisoners how angry we were. You know, like, people were like, dude, like, screw this. You know, I'll put it, put a gun, man, let's go. I will go to war right now. You put me on the front lines. You know what I mean? Like, you know, a lot of people hate Americans, but I always say you hate us because you, because you ain't us. And I've gotten a lot of perspective over all the years. Don't get me wrong. I love an, I'm an American. I represent America.

I'm a citizen. I'm a citizen. You know, I represent this country, you know. But yeah, so I was, I was, I was, I was very angry, uh, about that when, when that went down. So, um, let's go, let's get back to. So did you, you ended up, you were talking about burglaries and stuff. Right. And eventually it caught up to you. It did. It caught up to me. Like I said, the, the day after I turned 17 and then Georgia, uh, the, at 17 years old, you. you're considered as an adult. Okay. So technically I couldn't even buy cigarettes yet, but I could be tried as an adult, right? So, but they kind of gave me a slap on the rip. They kind of combined it at all and gave me this the 90 day boot camp thing, which I went to West Georgia boot camp, which is like a prison boot camp. You're not like an actual like military, but it's run in a very military style.

Right. You know, we exercise and marched and all that stuff. So I did. I did that. I got out 90 days, right? But then I went right back into doing exactly what I was doing before. You know, I was gang members still and now I'm a little bit older, you know. So I just got right back into that again and, you know, living the life of, you know, hustling, you know, selling drugs, a little small money here and there.

There's nothing like big and organized. But the funny thing you had mentioned about those cars, we at one of my, one of my members actually went out and visit a friend in New Jersey. And it came back with the master key to, they were Camrys, Toyota Camrys, back in my native 6th Camry. And you could stick this key into the Camry and it would unlock any Camry and it would work in the initial. So we just made copies of X keys. So literally, whenever we needed a ride to go somewhere, we would go walk to a parking lot, look for Camry, and we would be gone. It was just, and we were bad about it. We were literally playing bumper cars with these things.

like we didn't care about these cars but but i remember that one of my buddies end up getting incarcerated with one right and in there there there was he came across like some kind of like like they took them down to like the i guess what they say they take you to the precinct or whatever for questioning and he came across the paper that they said that the number two car that's both stolen in georgia happened to be tell you that can't read that's exactly what the guy yesterday said that said he said like he had like three cars that were like you know they weren't super expensive but he said there's tons of them so they always need parts so their people are stealing them and they're easy to steal he said they're not difficult to steal so yeah he said that was the number

one when we got that that was a game changer for us because before then we had to do the debt puller and all that I don't know how you you ever like like hot wire you know you see the hot wire in the cars and all that well basically what you do is you know what a dent puller is it is it's what the device that you twist and you can yank out the dent in the car right and like it would have like a little nail right you could screw into it and then you pop that den out right well you would screw in that nail right into the ignition switch and you basically just pop the whole entire ignition out and from there you could work your magic to start a call what was the guy what is it you remember the guy we interviewed that he he was doing they were doing it in

new york and he had a name for that the the ignition whatever snap it right out and that well it was the that's what it was. We called it exactly what it was. You know, the thing that, believe it or not, the thing that would deviate us the most was the club. You remember the stupid club, but we're a steel wheel club? If a car had a steel wheel club on it, you were safe. I had a buddy who broke into a guy's car who had a club. And he brought, he brought, um, like a saw. Yeah, no, uh, whatever, yeah, it was a saw, but it was, um, a, like a hacksaw, thank you. It's a little tiny hacksaw, not a big one, but that, you know, you can get them where they grip. right where they they grip the uh thing and it so you're actually it looks like a saw yeah had a couple

ways and he said so i sat it was i think it was a corvette he said i'm sitting out there sawing and i'm halfway through the saw he is the guy comes out of the house runs out and just pulling on the door he said and i he goes and i go what did you do he's i kept sawing he's like i'm like what do you mean he said bro he said like what am i going to do i'm i got to get through this thing you what am i going to oh you got me open the door he's this fucking guy's huge so he said he saw and saw he said so i mean I was making progress. I'm sure that thing it took like half an hour

to get through this. He said finally, he's like, because the guy like ran in the garage. You can tell he's calling the police. I snap it. I boom, I start the car.

He jumps on the fucking hood. He's like, he said, look, if he had grabbed like a hammer and smashed the window, he was, but it was his car.

He's like so he backs out with the guy on the fucking thing. He starts driving. He stops a couple times. Officially the guy comes off, gets off the hood. He takes off. And he's like,

I've been so scared in my entire life. And you know, believe it on assignment, to that is just even if we didn't take the cars you know how many like firearms and things like that that we got from glove compartments stereo equipment like just things these are these are ways that we were making money as as as young little kids right i mean um and like i said we we we robbed we rob people right i mean uh people that we knew that like dealt with like cash businesses or

dope no boys yeah you know what i mean and for you to do that you know what i mean and for you to do that you know that you got to be prepared yeah they might have you probably have a gun you got to be prepared you know and um but yeah we we we were we were pretty pretty bad back then you know um how did that what what what what happened um so how old were you at this point like this is after high school right this has got to be no i i i had doing my gang when i was probably about like 12 no no i mean after you went you went you went to prison well did the boot camp i did the boot camp i came out of the boot camp You said you were still a knucklehead. You're still doing crazy shit.

Still out there doing all that stuff. And then what happened, which leads into my second time I get incarcerated. So my gang or my crew where they were going down to Florida for the weekend to party or whatever. And three of us couldn't go. And one reason I couldn't go is because I was still under probation off the other stuff. So like I think four of us stayed behind. And they told us like, look, hey, don't go to the clubs. Don't go out.

you guys are only a few of you guys here you know what i mean but you know back then we i felt like i was invisible and if you're telling me not to go somewhere it means i'm scared and i'm i'm not going to be scared to go out right you know what i mean so what and and back then in alana the as fused as it is now like now when we go to the clubs there's a mix of all kinds of races in the year ago white people have people Asian people everything but back then they used to have what we're called asian parties so people would rent out eventually you and throw a party just for Asian people right so but this is where the gangs would converge right so then I remember went to club Seoul was down in Midtown Atlanta and it was just four of us

you know and we went in and there was an altercation within within the club right and you know we threw down in the club got out and got went to the car and as we were driving away is who's the altercation with a rival gang okay yeah it was a riot and it's not you in the alter case is somebody else within your game well with one of us is all of us right right so uh one of us got into a fight in there so we all we got into a fight in within the club right and then after that we you know got kicked out so we got to the car and as we were leaving there were like four of them on the side of the sidewalk i guess going to their cars you know and at that point i stuck my nine millimeter out of the window and i let go the entire mag right

uh unfortunately for me uh there was a police in the vicinity so there was a police on the scene within three minutes of the because he could he heard the gunshots right you know so it was a police on scene within three minutes so there was an app out for a red honda civic within like five minutes we made it maybe four blocks away you know what i mean uh and come to find out that they were like stopping any hot red hon any red car but there were other people that got guns drawn on them that had nothing to do with anything But anyway, like, we got pulled over and literally surrounded by, like, probably like 15 cop car. And you didn't get rid of the gun. You've got the gun.

No, we absolutely did get rid of it. Oh, okay. You know, we did get rid of it. But, like I said, completely surrounded. I mean, guns drawn and, like, you know, hands up and getting down and all that jazz. And so then they put us in the car. And then they took me right back to the scene of the crime because there were still some people there. At the time, I didn't know if I had hidden.

anybody yet right I was wondering but I did you know but there are other ones that didn't that were still there did you hit this did you hit one person or one person okay three times oh okay so he was already sent to the hospital but the remaining people there were like yes they ID me so immediately I go to Atlanta City Jail you know me and everybody that was in the car with me you know so then from there that was the stint of my second now Atlanta City Jail is a completely different ballgame because now you're talking this is the inner city of Atlanta this is like ACDC ACDC Atlanta City Detention Center I guess yeah I remember looking out my window and I could see Magic City which is one of it's like a tall building yeah I was

there obviously yeah you're familiar right well I was in the the Marshall's holdover area so it's just for the fed so okay well no I went into you know they obviously no bond on that charge So they take me into Atlanta City jail, but then they ended up having to bound my case over to Superior Court because they couldn't handle it in the city because it was such a bigger. It's a more serious crime. Yeah. So this is when I go to Fulton County Jail, right? Now, Follon County Jail is everybody knows it as Rice Street. Right.

Now, Rice Street, it was probably the toughest time I had to spend because Rice Street had seven floors. Have you heard of Rice Street? Yeah, I mean, being in ACDC, like these are rough places. Right, because you're dealing with, these are like the ghettos. Like in Atlanta, you talk, everybody in there is always, it's not even about what gang you're from. It's like where you're from. I'm from Fourth War, Bullet Bar, Mechanicsville, Perry Home, Carver Homes.

These are all projects, you know, mechanicsville is where T.I came from, you know. So in there, that's, they were reping where their neighborhood was. Right. You know, but either way, all those neighborhoods didn't have Asian people in it. You know what I mean? And plus I'm kind of outside because my hood is more college park. So I'm, I'm in Clayton County is where my hood is. So I'm not even in like my stomping ground, I guess you would say. So Rice Street at that time, I think they changed it now. But back then, Rice Street had seven floors. So the top floor was like the hole, right? The sixth floor was where you're a PC or like, I guess at the time, transgender people, stuff that people need protection. We would go to. And then the fifth floor was like the Thunderdome. The fifth floor was the violent crime floor. And then it worked its way on down, you know?

And you're there for attempted murder? I'm there for attempted murder. So I am on the fifth floor. And I'm in, I'm telling you, I'm crazy as shit. Like, I'm literally sitting here watching the news. And on the news, it was, I remember it was the deedy. And there was this couple, this guy and a girl who like killed some lady and chopped off her head. And they found the body, could never find the head.

Right. watching this on the news the door pops open and fucking dd walks in you know what i mean like i'm just like wow now the thing is you know like i said as Asians we're looked at as by black people as victims you know so i probably got into more altercations in the time that i spent on that fifth floor of rye street than i have my entire life as a gangbanger in the years i spent in prison afterwards you know what I mean like that kind of is really where I learned how to fight because I was constantly having to prove myself I could remember like the first week in there I went to a store call right so the officers at the door

handing out store I make a $50 store call I'm walking back to to my room with my bag and his name was Jones big tall guy came up to him was like hey let me get that and I was like oh you're hungry you want a honey bun I'm still a little green around the years you know i put my bag down and he's like no i want that whole thing now my whole thing is i gotta do it's like this don't think if you think you're gonna talk yourself out of it right i don't think i just react so i punch him right in the face you know what i mean his buddy kicks me in the back i go into the fetal position they're stomping me out officers at the door still passing out store call right you know what i mean it's called we call the goldfish bowl they

like a little tower up top they sat that they could look down there was like six different units yeah that they could look down on you know and like it was like nobody did you know that buy up their place and bets you know um but yeah that was like my first understanding of like you know hey this is going to have to be a regular thing because because being that a fact that it was a county jail i mean it was like a revolving door yeah you know like people were getting sentence and and moving out so new people were coming in so Do people come in, immediately see victim? So, I mean, I'm constantly proven.

I mean, I at least got to one to two fights a week. Now, I can remember one guy that definitely took me under his wing. He was a Mexican dude. Name was a Montana, right? And he was a golden glove boxer. And he came up to me and was like, hey, man, you know, you want to, like, work out and try to teach you some things like that. You know what I mean?

I guess he kind of felt bad. Maybe I was just getting my ass kicked a little too much. Because back then, as a game where you thought you really knew, out of fight but you're just really not you're just really trying to throw punches with no kind of really technique to it right you know what i mean but like i said if you're willing to fight then you won right because at least you chose you're not scared but then he started showing me boxing moves you know like we would take the matches rolling up put in the pillowcase and hold it and start showing me how to stand and you know i'm doing it just as an exercise thing but

then as i'm fighting i noticed that like it's just started to come naturally with it and i'm starting to get better you know so i really really learned how to fight then because i will tell you growing up as a game banger i'm fighting other boys right it's completely different game when you're fighting a grown-ass man as a as a young boy yourself you know what i'm saying it's it's a completely different ballgame you know what i mean and and and and everyone you have to take seriously you know and then and then even after the fight you're still living with this guy still you still got to kind of get your eyes the worst it's the worst thing like yeah so you you got to kind of learn how to somewhat coexist you earn that respect and then you got to somehow squash it out at some point yeah you know what i mean

like like even that guy jones we ended up being really cool like weeks later after you know his shiner went away you know what i mean but he never stole my stoker off from me again right you know what i mean but he probably spreads the word like listen that dude a fucking swing i mean it wasn't even a spread a word it would It was literally like in the day room. I mean, I didn't even make it back to my room. I was probably about 15 feet away from the door from the store call, you know. But, you know, it wasn't the last time that my stuff got stolen.

Right. You know what I mean? But once again, you got to go out. And it could be over the most, like, simplest thing. I was telling you're like, you know, out here we have what is like a man code, right? That we got to live by. You're going to have to, you know, you can treat me with a certain amount of respect as a man, right? But in there you have the convict code, you know, which is like, you know, stitches get stitches and all that stuff.

Right. But it was more like all you had was your respect. So the littlest thing would force you to have to go into an immediate confrontation. Yeah, I was going to say like here like, you know, out here like you're not going to get into a fight if over over a $3 item that that guy over there might have stole or he didn't return and he said. man i'm sorry i lost it bro it's like fuck was four bucks whatever well you've been in i may be in prison oh yeah you'll die bro what are you doing like i can't let you fucking just i can't all my shit because now it makes it looks like anybody else anybody's gonna do it right you can't you can't do that and like even i don't know about you but and like one of the biggest thing is you can't reach over

my food do not put your hand over my food right well okay so state you know i'm saying state and pens are they have a lot of little rules you know what I'm saying like you can't in some of them it's like you can't you can't do even do business with like somebody from another race you can't sit at that table why because that's a black guy's table right can't sit there like yeah there's nowhere to sit with you fucking stand or you wait till one of the white guys gets up or you like that's in other like the prisons I were was at weren't that bad there were some of it but it was more laxed you know what I'm saying it's even like cutting line or going to a guy and going hey can I jump in line and the guys be like yeah yeah that's fine and and

And then, and then you go back and, you know, some white guy would come to him and say, bro, you just cut line. And now I asked the guy, I'm going to fuck. Yeah. Yeah, but the line's a hundred people. Like, it'll take me 10 minutes or 20 minutes to be in that line. They'll go, then you go, wait. You're going to get us in trouble.

Yeah. You're going to get us in a problem because you just cut in front of that guy, even if he says it's okay. Well, even if he says okay, but is the other 99 people behind him. Right, right. Exactly. So, no, you go stand back in the line. Right. I'll give you an example.

One of the things I got in a fight with over a lot with somebody calling me, an Amigo. Hey, Amigo. First of all, I'm not Mexican. Right. You know what I mean? And it's like, no, no, no, man. It means friend.

Second of all, I'm not your friend. You know? And then now at that point, I've kind of laid it down on him. Either he's going to back down and look like, you know. Like you put him in his place. Or he has to step up to the bat. And if he does, then, hey, I have to step up to the bat too, right? And that's the most troublest thing to get up.

What about people out here saying, bitch? Oh, bitch, you're crazy. Like, you know, that's like I've never been anywhere with that. But out here they say it, like people will say it to each other. And it's like, son of a bitch. That, if you call them my mom, what are you? Right. That was, that was immediate green light.

Stupid stupid. The stupidest, the stupidest thing. Yeah, guys don't fucking get that fights. They're going out and they're going. They're putting their boots on and going to get it shame. And when they put the boots on, what they call it. They call it, strap up. Right.

Hey, it's time to strap up. you know over the most trivialest thing but it's because you only have that little bit of shred of respect that you have to like maintain you know and i'm not going to even lie like being asian dude in prison you don't think how many people kind of came at me with that fuck game right you know what i'm saying like who wouldn't want to have them a nice little china doll right you know what i'm saying especially when i'm the only only asian in the entire camp and it's funny because when i went to that camp uh they they do their count system by black or So even if you're Mexican, your kids are black or white, they have on the board.

How many black inmates that have? How many white inmates they have, right? I refused to be labeled. And they kept, I mean, they were on me, on me, on me. I was like, fuck you. I'm not picking. If you pick, if you pick, you pick, you pick. But you're asking me to pick, fuck you.

I'm not picking. So you know, you know, if you go to like the BOP and you're looking somebody up, it only has like black and white. Like there's no Hispanic. It's black, white. What's race, black, white, male, female, that's. it that's your choice and it's funny because the day that i got released uh i went through the outtake and i went past the office and they had like the chalkboard where the white board where they had

their count they had black white and they had a fucking 3m sticky note other other one you can finally take that fucking sticky note down motherfucker because that's me so so what so how long were you um i'm sorry so what what happened let's go back to the okay well what happened like what did they come to you with like you just shot you just hit a guy three times did okay what happened no i hit him i hit him in the leg three times okay okay so we kind of jumped around a little bit okay say so you still die by being shot in the leg by the way right but he did it he did it he showed up he showed up to court in a wheelchair you know and that's how they passed on and and indicted me to move me forward but i ended up spending like three years in county waiting to go

to to trial what are they offering you are they giving you an offer well i finally got an offer of a 10 to five time served right after so i i didn't even end up going to prison over that charge but you had already done three years you have done three years i've done three years yes what do you mean 10 to i don't understand you so it was a 10 to five basically is a 10 year sentence you just serve five of it but you'd already serve three and i already served three so it's basically yeah they let me out straight from county but they paroled me out straight from county basically um so then that happens right So I'm out on the street now after this aggravated assault, attempted murder, right? Back into the same thing, you know, back meeting with my boys and everything.

And then this is, can't get right. I just couldn't get. It took a while. At any point when we were in prison, did you think, you know what I'm going to get out? And I'm working for FedEx. I'm done. I'm going to go work for FedEx. I'm going to deliver packages.

Or, you know, Walmart. Like, did you think, at any point, while you're, at any point, why? you were locked up saying this sucks. I don't want to do this anymore. Fuck it. I would rather just work at Walgreens. You know, I'm going to be honest with you. There's no rehabilitation. Right. What it taught me was it taught me how to be a better criminal. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right? Because you're in there with the best. Of course. Right. And it also taught me that I'm not scared of this. Like, I can surviving here like that that that was the worst for me that's the problem because you now you're not scared of it once you it the unknown was what was scared once you went through it you're like

oh no this isn't that much of a deterred yeah like now I don't give a fuck about this right you know what I you know I've been there done that you know now when I go to if I ever one I'd rather much rather do prison time than county time because county fucking sucks the guys the whole time you're in county you're like I there were guys that I kept hearing him say man I just just want to get sentenced to go to prison and it was like and I was like I always thought well prison's worse than this right and they're like fuck no prison's way better than county fuck yeah county sucks I remember a guy was like he said you understand that I'll get there in the morning that night I'll be eating ice cream I mean he was I'm gonna they're gonna count me I'm gonna

walk the track for about an hour or two I might play handball that night I'll have somebody get me an ice cream I'll be taking a hot shower I'll be and you're sitting there going like a I want to get sentenced. Like, I want to go to prison. But it's, I know, because you know, you're watching these movies. And, you know, of course, I, I myself, I'm not to say that I wasn't, like, nervous about going to prison. You know what I mean?

Obviously, I was. You know what I mean? But once you've been down there and you understand and, like, I was a rowdy kid. I was never scared to throw down. So, like, once you know that, like, you can earn that respect. Yeah, the freedom's down in prison. So much more. Like, you literally get out in the morning.

You're out all day, watch a TV, gambling. You don't have very little interaction with the police. Yeah, very little interaction with anything. So it's kind of like you're you're kind of left on your own to kind of do do your time, you know, whereas in county they're so like strict and it's all about control and, you know, literally in Gwinnett County, like you literally only got four hours outside of your room a day. So it's 20 hour lockdown. You know what I mean? Like, fuck that shit. I much rather go out here like send me to Jen Pop.

You know what I mean? Because I much rather have the freedom and not. and so what a fight's a fight well i'm what the hell is that you know i was just thinking um i was being transferred one time so i'm being transferred like they put you on the bus they you know they ship the blue bird we call it the blue bird so i got shipped from coleman i was going through uh and you you served time in florida yeah well yes okay well i mean i got caught in um yeah i got got caught in nashville and so i went from nashville to like um i think uh was it alabama and then they send you through like the Oklahoma City,

like the transfer center. I was there for a couple weeks. So I got moved around. But at one point from Coleman, I was going through Atlanta. But they bring the bus. You spend two days here. Then they bring you here, two days here.

Jackson? No, I went to. I remember this was, oh God, it was a Tallahassee, Florida. But it was so funny as they bring the bus in, right? So there's probably 10 or 12 of us. They give us our bedroll and we're walking to ourselves. And it was late. It was like 10 or 11 o'clock at night.

But keep in mind, I've been locked up like nine, 10 years. No, I've been locked up, you know, I think, I'd been locked up about eight years at this point. So I'd already, I'd already, I'd been a year in the county jail. I was already at the low. So I'm walking with my bedro and there's a couple of guys behind me. But some of the guys that were around me, like they were still being transferred. They haven't been sentenced, nothing. They've barely been to even the county jail yet.

They've been in a week or two, maybe a couple months. So as we're walking, and we're all from the low. So, but, you know, while we're low security, but these guys got picked up at the, at one of the U.S. Marshal's holdover. So they've really been designated, but they're low guys. So we're walking with the bedroll and we go up on the second tier and we're, you know, the cops, we're following the cop. And he's like, here, you know, Johnson, this is your room. So, but so as we're walking, this is criminal. These are, these are fucking, these are criminals.

The guys, it's 11, 12 o'clock at night. The guys are at the windows, all the doors are locked. The guys are at the windows banging on the windows. Put that one in here. Put that one in here. Big fucking huge guys with tattoos. That one. I want him.

I want him. And I mean, I swear the guys. Fresh fish. Fresh fish. Guys behind me and in front of me are like, oh my God. Oh my God. And I go, you guys are fucking with you. We're in a low.

This is a low holdover. They're fucking with you. They're fucking with you. I promise. He's like, oh, I don't think I can. do this man i don't think i'm like it's fine they're fucking with you i can't be in for fun of these guys i can't be it reminds you of uh shawshank redemption i'm making a shawshank redemption when they don't make bets but they were serious you're saying yeah yeah the freshman they're doing the

bad and i'm sitting there like laughing because i'm thinking i was so fucking of course i was scared when i first got locked up and i'm sitting there like you guys i'm i swear to you these guys are fucking these guys are in the holdover this is a low security holdover so they're not going to put you you're a low guy they're not going to put you in with someone who's going to rape you or murder you are not at this level now that may happen later but at this level i promise you guys came home came came out for um for breakfast like some of the guys were that were terrified were like bro my fucking cool he my celly's so cool bro he you were almost in tears last night yeah it's as it's a game but it's a game and yet not a game because they do test to see who's weak yeah

You know what I mean? This was a little, we were going to be there for two days. You know what I'm saying? Nobody's getting, there's commissaries. Nobody's there. So it wasn't that bad of it. And you know, and I listened and I was 100% right. Like you're right.

It could have gone the other way. But it didn't. Like as soon as I walked in, like, you know, there was like a, the guy, like my cell like, you know, he was like, you know, he's like, Hey, bro. What's up, man? Look, I got my stuff here. Hold on. Let me get my stuff off the bed.

Like he's, you know, he knows. He's like, you know, he's in transfer too. two he's like look we got to be in here together like let's yeah you got you got to be cool with you say yeah because there are times you have to admit to your times you were in prison and you met some guys that were just off the chain cool guys just oh my squad guys yeah you have to have your I mean even regardless of a gang or whatever affiliation in prison you got to have like I said those guys that had your back that can look behind you you know where you can't see you know you have to have that close litter near friends you know who takes care of you themselves like

the Mexicans oh yeah when the Mexicans get there you can could be a Mexican, go into a unit, and you walk in, and they're like, yo, bro, where you from? Boom, boom, boom. I got you. I got shower slides for you. I've got soap. I've got, like, they would have like a whole kit. And sometimes the white guys would do it. The black guys never really did that for each other that I saw. And sometimes the white guys would do it for each other. They were such a small group, but the Mexicans would take care. I mean, like, bro, give me a list. I'm going to the store tonight. I'll send somebody to get your list. Like, it was like, like they were set up let's see that comes at a cost oh okay it comes at cost because now they

just grew one more member of their numbers yeah right now that guy owes him expected that guy owes them right so if now somebody if they were to reach out and ask him a favor he would now feel obligated right to do what he's got to yeah yeah right so i mean everything comes out of cost you know um you know the one of the big jokes is the and this never happened to me but yeah i've heard stories about you go into prison and then there's like a bunch of cake the cakes and stuff like that all on your bed the snickers bar yeah the snickers bars and stuff like that on your bed you may not eat that snickers bar you know what i mean like you think that's a gift i used to tell the guys would say well what's the difference between the medium and the low i'd go well i said you know the thing difference

is that you know somebody puts a fucking snickers bar and you're at a medium don't eat it someone puts a snickers bar on your pillow in the low you can eat it you'll be all right because that dude shows up and you'd be like yeah i ate the fucking Snickers bar fuck you you don't want to go nowhere right you know what i'm saying you don't want to fight you know you know you're playing around that's because you're willing to like you know right but he might try you like it was probably a joke though right you know what I'm saying probably could be yeah oh i had listen i taught gED and i used to have with zach and we used to have i used to have a guy that used to bring a snickers every once in a while and he'd go hey cox

you know like this with the snickers i mean cut the fucking shit so this went on four or five times for about two or three weeks well now I know who the guy I kind of know and I realize that he's not doing anything right so one day I once he goes hey Cox and I go I said damn bro I snatch it out of his hand I open it and I bite it and he goes what the fuck man fuck bro are you serious you cashed in that wolf ticket right you but the first time like it was questionable yeah it's fucking with me like he's trying you up he's testing you right it's all about testing right and seeing where somebody's hearts at and that's and that's all it is like even like me like said as long as you're willing

like there's so much easier to go to the next guy who's not going to be willing to buy than then then to even deal with it you know what i mean so like once you once you get known to just like hey this guy's just not going to it's just not going to come easy then they're going to leave you alone and in prison it was a lot easier in that because the revolving door wasn't as you know my rep it was it was big the reputation would would be known more it was just it just it just altercations happened because they just happened to happen not because somebody was intentionally trying to go after me or something like that you know what I mean but like and Wright Street like I said that was like a revolving door I was like constantly like learn I mean

I don't think I ever not had a bruise on me at some point my body at all times you know but yeah like even then even in prison it's like a code like hey let's take it to the room there's no need for the police to know about this so you never but you never on that charge you you stood all three years in the county which was the hardest time to believe it or not yeah but you'd rather than five years in prison absolutely absolutely because like i said that and it was weird because like i was in rye street for a year right and then they finally came up with a bond for me for that for that charge so i was thinking oh i'm going to post bond and get out well guinette county still had a hold on me from those burglary charges right so i didn't i posed bond and just went straight

to another county job and i'm like well at least at guenette county i didn't have to fight right you know what i mean but i ended up sitting in there for two years till i finally i went out to trial and like well didn't go out trial but we pleaded out and you know i got out yeah that was i was i'm sure you've heard this before that that was a that was my my buddy of zach that was his thing was like he actually had new charges and they gave him a bond but he was he was on federal probation so his federal probation had been revoked so he's like you know all his whole everybody that knows him's like why don't you bond out like your bond is nothing he's like don't you understand i'll bond out and i'll as soon as i walk out the door they'll pick me up and bring me to the federal fucking holdover and i won't

bond out like i might as well stay here you know that happens all the time like you've got outstanding warrants they're like bro your bond's 10 grand for a grand you can get out no like if you haven't been through the system you don't know how it works well i we we bond it out because they my family called up to the gentleman's like hey does he have any kind of hold on him right they said no right so you did they they they posted the bond but then i never made it out because then the whole oh i thought you knew and you want you wanted to be moved no oh okay i mean i'm well you're in you're in i'm gonna fuck look at me like yeah it sucks that it was right you know but still but you said the other one was better it wasn't no not necessarily better because rye street

actually yeah i got in a lot of fights but you got free time you opened the doors open in the morning you're out all day you do what the fuck you want you know what i mean whereas when i count of you're locked down 20 hours a day in your room like i like i said i'd rather be in gen pop yeah you know it's funny how different all the different every facility is different yeah some of them will no commissary and they feed you like shit other ones they feed you good and you got great commissary and you're out and you're like you know then they've got you know multiple TVs other ones they don't have any TVs and they don't it's like Jesus it's it's one extreme to the other yeah someone and them won't even barely feed you the uh um they won't barely feed you enough calories to stay

alive and the food is crap and the other ones will feed you great like oh yeah wow federal prison wasn't horrible it wasn't bad food federal time is actually easier time oh it's just it's just in state but they don't have the parole is though the suck part of no what the time they want the time they want the time yeah they don't want the time and you're they can send you so far away, which with me, they said, I, okay, well, I get out on the, uh, the aggravates, I have attempted murder charge and, uh, get back into the same thing against, you know, and, uh, we had recently just robbed some dope boys. So I had over a given, a thousand ecstasy pills, you know, and so I got set up by an undercover, right, right away. You remember

the restaurant Benegans? Yeah. Yeah. So this is probably, are they still Benning? No, but back in 2000, there was... Oh, they were everywhere. It's like Sizzler. Chilis, they're still chilies, right? Like, Chili's and Beniggins that were like rivals. It's almost the same thing. Right.

Benegans, yeah, so I remember that I... And the reason was weird, because it was... I got set up by a girl that I bought Coke from. You know, and I'm like, she couldn't be something. She literally sells shit to me herself. You know what I mean? But, so like I said, I was undercover. cover and I was unloading like a whole bunch of these ecstasy pills and back then they were just

ecstasy pills it was not all the same dm a lot of this this happened back in 2000 so um I end up and it was like you know met him was up met him up he was like all right let's go out to the car make the deal you know and so we get in the car and like he's counting out of the money and the next thing you know I mean like a band like literally blocks the back of the car and swats like jumping out and literally a helicopter is flying above the Benegans, you know, and it's like full on, like, on me. You know what I mean? And that's the third time I'm incarcerated for distribution, right, and sell.

So then this is when I go back in to count. Is this federal? No. This is still a state, right? So then I decided that's when I would serve my third term and my final term, right? But in between that time was when the incident happened at the TGI Fridays. So in between that time, me and three other my gang members, two of them happen to be brothers, with our girlfriends, where I happened to be eating at TGI Fridays.

And the guy that I had shot happened to be eating at the same restaurant. And he saw us, you know, but we never saw him. I never had an idea he was in there. We were just eating. And he called up and like literally about 45 minutes into our meal. We look outside and like there are like, there's a mob out there. Like 20, 20 guys, five, six cars out there, you know? And my guys, they tell me like, look, you're already on parole for the, you know, the 10 murder.

Like you and your girl need to just get in your car and leave. We got this. you know what I mean and that's what I'm saying band of brothers man like really you know what I mean uh so we get out and like

I'm parked like over here and here's the restaurant and they're parked like right up against the wall the side of the restaurant like my my other my other boys right so like I'm getting to my car and I'm looking over there and I can already see them

like having exchanging words with the other side and these guys they got like bats and and shit too, you know. Now, number us, like, you know, four or five to one, you know. So I see one of them, like, I guess get close and then my buddy's older brother swings first. He hits that guy first. I mean, he's a college kid. He's got absolutely nothing, no gang affiliation at all. He was just out having dinner with his brothers and a couple of his brothers friends but in the same breath these are my little brothers right and you're not going to sit

here and just i'm not going to stand by and let you guys just you know beat them up or whatever it is so when i saw that happen i said screw that shit i hop out and i'm i'm over there i'm next you know i'm fighting for guys you know and i at the time have a gun on me but i'm not the type to be like she first you know what i mean like i'm okay with like like hey we could throw hands and I'm okay with that you know what I mean um but as I'm fighting these four guys I hear gunshots break out you know and I don't really know if it's coming from my side their side you know I start unloading my own shots you know after the aftermath of that because after the gun starts going out it's basically everybody clears and they're hopping

in their cars and you know everything's going on that I see my my friends old brother on the ground you know and at the time he was still like you know and even at the time they told me get the fuck out of here when the police arrive you don't need to fucking be here right you know like that's that that that that love that you know so i left i left and i actually went straight to the hospital on the redneck medical and um because you knew they were going to be i knew he was going that way right because yeah so i was there And I was also informing family and stuff like that because they're all on the scene. You know, I'm letting people know that, hey, this has happened.

He's probably going to be going to go in that medical. And at the time, he was still talking and like coherent. He had been shot in the stomach. Turns out he had been shot like four or five times, you know. On the transport to the hospital is when he passed. Right. you know and the brothers were riding with him in in in the ambulance so when the brothers come out of the I guess versus whatever like we could all know that like he was gone you can see it in

that face and it just it it crushed me like their mom was there father was there I mean I just it destroyed me it destroyed because you know if it happened to one of us I mean we're a casualty war like we're we're part of the game like this is this is the risk that you take you know what i mean but he just he was just a good college kid man like he had no affiliation nothing like that but you know all he did was love and protect his brothers you know what i mean and like yeah it destroyed it destroyed me you know um so then you know that happens and then like they arrest like 20 of those guys like because they start telling on each other and all this so they all get incarcerated into Gwinnett County Jail, right?

But then they start telling us, so they eventually, a whole bunch of them get out, and they're left with four guys, right? One guy was the guy that hit him with a bat, knocked him down. One guy was the one who actually shot him. One guy fired rounds, but didn't hit him. And then I think one guy, he was the brother of the other guy. I don't remember exactly. But they ended up saying, okay, well, y'all four are going to be the ones that we're going to charge with first-degree murder, you know, and, you know, it was premeditated because, I mean, literally, y'all sat in a parking lot for like 45 minutes waiting for us to come out with a gun. With guns and bats and then all this stuff, you know, and all that. But then, so those guys are, those guys are locked up. And like six months later is when I go down with the drug charge, right? So I'm in county jail, in the same county jail with them. But they knew to keep us separated.

Right. So like I always had to bounce around because if that had to move one around, they ended up having to move me around. So I never ever got a chance to see any of them the time I was in county. And on this trip, it didn't take long. You know, I was in county for like maybe six, six months. Boom, trial. I mean, I took a plea. I got sent down to prison. You know what I mean? So I was a time's yet. I had a 15 to do 10. Okay. Right. So I went out of prison. But it was a drug charge though. So at least this one was like a nonviolent. So pro came up pretty quick. quick, you know, but anyway, I was down in prison. I was all the way down in Wheeler, which is like three, four, five hours outside of Atlanta, you know, and like a year later, the DA comes down to my prison to talk to me, the DA that was doing the murder case on my friends, right? And he was like, you know, we want to bring you back up to county in case we need to call you out as a witness on this murder case, you know? and I was like, you know, that's fine.

You can bring it back up there. But you know, if I see any one of these guys, I want to try to kill him. You know, and he's like, no, we're going to protect you. Don't worry about it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, fine. So like a couple weeks later, I hop on the bluebird going all the way back to county. So I get back to county, go back in the county cell and everything.

And then two days later, we're going out to court. So the way they do is they call out the pause. They go standing line. There's a north hall and there's a south hall. Right. So we're in line at South Hall that call us out of court, and I look up and like 20, 20 guys in front of me is one of the four guys, you know, and I'm like, at this time, I don't want to bum rush and tackle them because literally there are like five officers on this hallway pushing us down. It's like, it's not going to really get. I'm not going to even get to them, you know?

So then we go down to the crossway, and then they line up the South Hall just kind of goes first, and then I'm seeing the other three in Brut, right? So we're on this one big line going towards the holding cell. go to court, right? So I'm thinking, okay, any second now, they're about to pull me out of this line and separate me. So they're going into the cell, going into the cell. So you know, I'm in the cell with them. You know, I'm shocked that you were even in the same facility, but I see it, but I've seen it happen so many times. Right. One guy's on trial and three of the witnesses are in the room with them. Like they're moving them all together. It's like, what are you doing? Like, that's just. Yeah. I don't know how they mess this up, but you know, I'm glad that they did.

know so when the door slammed shut I stand up and I'm like okay what's up now motherfuckers you ain't got your guns we can either go four-on-one or I can go down the line and kick your ass one-on-one at a time what do you want to fucking do you know and like one of the guys from myself like yo man calm down calm down I was like come man because I you know these I consider my brothers was like hey he killed my cousin like this is you know he's like whoa man do what you got to do bro you know and the guy that I shot was one of the guys you know and now he he can walk now it wasn't like it was like a paralyzing injury or anything and this is like years later he was I remember

him sitting on the bench and the other guys were sitting there was like well the bench here bench here you know three of them were sitting here he was sitting here and I'm in the middle just monologing yeah and basically and then I remember he says it's not that we're scared to you motherfucker we don't want to send you to the hospital you know and i was like what and i said walked him he stood up i deck him and i'm just whaling on this guy so what do you think the other three guys do they go banging on the fucking door calling for the police right help help oh deveree debby devie deffy you know so they get in there and they yank me off this guy whatever you know and then like um one of the officers looks on his clipboard and he's like he sees that i was supposed to be

separate. He just slams the fucking flipboard. I was like, fuck goddamn. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. So whatever, they separate us. Transfer us to the courthouse. And then at the courthouse, I can see the DA come out. It was like, oh, have y'all's fucking job if you cost me this trial.

It was gone off on. I mean, the guy's going to court. He's got a fresh Shiner on. You know what I mean? And like, so, but they ended up not ever using me in the trial at all. Did they, I was shocked that these guys went to trial. Like, this is just. that like that that's it seems like it seems like that the one guy you said that you had shot like most likely if he didn't hit him with the bat and he didn't shoot at him and he you know what I'm saying either way he's the one that's the reason he's in that that's why this whole thing is he that's why he's one he saw you he starts calling people so you call these people here to do this to do this like and you're coming with firearms right like yeah you're not coming to maim me you know I mean you're coming with back

this is conspiracy to commit murder yeah you called your buddy's here to kill this guy yeah right you know and and like so like and i and i mean it's it's it's it's bittersweet but at least i got at least to put my hands on them you know what so what happened what did they they all end up getting life sentences are you serious they all getting life sentence they all got left sense and you know hearing through the great fine i told you asian motherfuckers down in prison our food right definitely know two of them are sucking day you know the funny things you know the term fuck boy out here you hear the term boy I don't know about right the term fuck boy is a prison term yeah that was it means something totally different totally fucking different in prison like somebody called me a fuck boy out here

I feel some type of way about it you know what I mean because a fuck boy is a man you you're not gay but you're sucking dick right and you're doing what you got to do because you don't want to get beat up or what the fuck ever that is a fuck boy you know what I mean so like as it's weird that you know out here they call like these guys that are like you know womanizers but in prison that that that's that I was saying it's like calling somebody a bitch out here is vastly different than being in prison like you know extremely extremely different I mean something like small like you're sitting on my pillow right like we're or you know something like you don't sit on another guy's bed you if you are you at least say hey

there's nowhere to sit like what do you want and guys will be like hey you can sit on my bed right but you wouldn't walk in and sit on someone's bed like because that's the only little piece of property that they have right And you have to respect it because if not, then nobody else. The mentality is always like, hey, that if you do it, everybody else thinks that they're going to be able to do it. And it's like the TV, your space in the TV room, that's your little piece of real estate. Even if you're not there, don't sit. In my chair.

Or don't even sit. Like, if I take my chair, like, don't sit in this space. Right. That can be a problem sometimes. Guys come and say, you're in my space. Me, I'm watching my fucking show. Yeah, I know that's my space. why because I've been here for 10 years that's my stay now it's a problem like yeah it's a problem

and then now it's like who's going to back down right right and so like with me it's never back back now you know what I mean but yeah I was going to say like to like to me it's funny because like I had been at the low so long like I had a space and I didn't like I didn't give a shit like I didn't give a shit about I'm saying I didn't give a shit about my space like I was like because I would walk in and I would say and everybody knew me and I'd say hey bro I'm saying I think oh no no no sorry cox sorry it's not a big you know they'd move immediately um you know and then i had other guys in the tv room who would say yo bro don't sit there that's cox's space right and then so guy or did you ask him and they'd come and ask me i'd be like you don't have to ask me

i know but kinney was there and kitty wouldn't let me sit right he said you would have a problem i'm like i'll give a fuck like i'm not that guy right i don't care as long as when i'm coming tonight i'm going to watch my show at seven you know what you sit there that's fine and then guys would have they would have um contracts you have your ever the guys would have contracts on stuff where like you'd have a contract with someone where he could sit at your space except for this to hold it down almost right and then guys would have contracts on like food like you'd have a contract on like i on tuesdays and thursdays i get your bacon you get my such and such you know i'll give you my hard boiled eggs throughout the whole week oh god i paid a guy two soups every week to wash my underwear right

And they'll call it a contract. Like, we got a contract. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I got you. I got you. He gets two suits. He washed my underwear. I have a guy that rolled my cigarettes. Like, I didn't, I wasn't very good.

And in Georgia at a time, you could still smoke in prison. You can't know more now. Right. But I obviously couldn't afford. They call him Cadillacs if you're out there smoking Newport. You know what I mean? So we had a rolled cigarettes. So he would, like, I think a box of kite or tops would come with like 30 rolling papers or

something like that. So he would roll me 30, roll cigarettes, and then whatever tobacco was left was what he was allowed to keep for himself. And he'd have to go get papers on his own. You know what I mean? But like, yeah. Guys would clean their room, clean your room. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Clean the room twice a day or not twice, maybe two, three times a week.

Some guys every day. Yeah. Some of these guys are super, you know. I was very fortunate that my mother was there for me. Like, I had a consistent $60 a month that got put on my books. I could depend on it. And $60 may not sound like much, but like, man, in prison, like, yeah, I, I, I stretched that out. Like, I didn't have to hustle for my cigarettes.

I didn't have to hustle for things. You know, I hustle just because I wanted to hustle. Yeah. You know what I mean? I had, you know, I taught the real estate class. So you, you'd have 40 guys show up, but only about 15 or 20 wanted to actually be there. The other guys wanted to program. And so I'd say, look, you know, bring me, you know,

know a coffee and two creamers and you get a certificate i'll sign you in i'll do the test i'll do everything it's awesome yeah and i everything is awesome have my so initially within a week of the beginning of that class i had at least four months worth of coffee and creamer in my you know then you could tell as the as the classes or as it got towards the end because it was slowly going and it's funny i would never run out like before i even ran out i'm touching my next class same thing It was fully good. And remember they call fingers of coffee because they would take a glove and they would put coffee into a finger of a glove and tie a glove off. That would be one, that would be like one pack of coffee.

So you would sell it by the finger. How many fingers of coffee is you need? Right. You know, so that's what that was the thing. Also, you know, the store man, you know, two for three, three for five. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, the store man guys run a store that they have their, their locker is a store.

And so if somebody comes and gets like they would give you like whatever, you know, two honey buns. Yeah, two honey buns and you give them back. Three hundred buns. That was the deal. And you get three honey buns. Three honey buns. You get five for five.

You know what I mean? So that was there. That was their hustle was the, you know, Mike that was here, the cocaine. Yeah, Mike Hudson. He used to come probably, you know, once, maybe once a month, he would run out of coffee. He'd come and he'd go, Matt, I. I go get an envelope and I'd fill up you know you like two days where like it's a couple days I go to the store I'll get you don't have to get me back I'm good and I'd put a bunch of coffee

in the in an envelope folded up and see I think you're a lot like me in the sense that like I was just a cool guy yeah like we said like our superpower is kind of get people to like you right yeah so like they called me China man like I was the only China that was my name nobody no nobody know my government name you know I mean like China man that's what I was my nickname in there. Hey, China, man, hey China, man. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I was just that cool guy. And, like, I could facilitate certain needs, kind of like read from Shawshank Redemption. Right. Like, if you need something, like, hey, I might be able to know somebody that knows somebody. And I, and I pretty much try to stay out of the

politics. You know what I mean? Like, that's when you're getting into shit. And luckily, for me, I didn't have to, because I had my, I had that $60 a month that I could always depend on. you know what i mean but i mean even i ran tattoos in there i had a little tattoo gun you know made out of a cassette tape motor and all that you know because back then they were still cassette tapes we didn't have i'm remember the time that i was serving like cell phones weren't even out yet like internet was brand new um you know all that stuff was sold new that like they were still selling because the walkmans on on now they use the they now they use the um you know the electric they use the it's the same little tiny it's that battery it's all you need is that one

battery to go but no the little the little engine thing that spins yeah the motor yeah the little motor thing all you need that motor you know they take it out and they make a they actually make like a gun that is amazingly like a like a fucking tattoo I mean I can show you like some of my presence has it's it's crap you know right because what it is is they'll take like a spring off of a like a ball pen and they light that spring up and stretch it all the way back straight again right and then they will take one edge that spring and use the concrete to sharpen it up to a point to you know what they're using coleman they use the uh guitar the guitar string guitar if you could get that in if you could get that in see that was a lot

and they get furious because everyone's while a whole one would disappear and they shut the whole guitar they shut the whole you know instrument room down and they yell at everybody and somebody get fired and it doesn't matter we've got enough for about a guitar string is the best because like you're only using certain amount of pieces of it so you actually get a whole bunch out um but yeah but the the spring or the guitar spring and they would hook it to that motor and they run it to the top but the neat thing is how did they come up with the ink right the ink was smut yeah you know they took like basically baby oil lit it on fire and like encased it with like paper and that ash that came up on that paper they would scrape off and mix it with like um toothpaste or something like that

and that was how they made their I mean it's ingenious like some of these present guys would do they make wine they all yeah they fuck you figure out how they'll make wine they're like they're like artists well what do they call it bomb bays we're called bombays like uh like hunch punch right they would make in there you know they would take you know leftover uh peelings from apples and things like that from the from the kitchen or rice or rice or whatever and this is it's hiding it giving it enough time to ferment and hiding it and then releasing the pressure just because it'll like they'll put it in like a jug and then you have to so it it you know it expands of course so

they have to keep you have to know what the timetable is to be able to go in and and keep letting it out a little bit here a little if you don't you could be sitting somewhere here boom yep and all of a sudden the water or alcohol or first dripping out of the ceiling or wherever you got to hit it yeah i'm assuming that's where he had the had the um the bombay Yeah, and it takes time. But, man, it's ingenious how smart these guys would do things. Like, I could light a cigarette by popping an electrical socket, you know, like a light switch socket. I'd stick my key behind it, and I'd stick some foil in where the switch is,

and I'd run a pencil across that foil, which would spark, and I'd have a little piece of toilet paper with shredded on the end and catch that spark. And that's where I would have my light, and I'd light my cigarette up. You see the guys with the batteries where they would take... Oh, yeah, the batteries with the two, yeah. So they take, like, let's say you get a potato chip, you know, the potato chip bags, right, that are like, you know, they're shiny inside, right? They would take them and cut them into a thin strip and they take a little like a, a double A battery and they just, they take it and they put touch the ends and that actually lights up. It gets hot. It'll get hot.

It'll light up. It'll turn like a live wire and they like their shit. Like, these guys are insane. They're genius. You'd be shocked you. Like, you're in the shoe and these guys. guys would do the thing where they what they call the kite the kite yeah yeah the message like these guys would shoot it underneath the door something heavy and and it

and you've got string they take the string out of their thing and they make it from the they take it from their uh betting yeah and they would sling it and it hit the wall shoot over hit another wall and shoot over and go right in the doorway that's a hundred feet away to the to the another in the hole you have nothing else to do right so like they want to get a message to that guy over there so of the do is they take the string like a thread and they tie it to like a pin cap right like uh just a cap that you put on a pin and their kite or their note would be within that pin cap right and so then they tie that pin cap and literally they are shooting that cap out and if they don't hit their target they're using the string to pull it back to them to take another shot sometimes they're like a domino or

something right yeah just anything with some weight yeah they just do this and you're you i would watch my my celly do it And you do it enough times, you get really good at it. And he'd be like, fuck. And this guy, this is the kind of guy that would do it three times. And he'd hit. He'd hit. And then in it, he'd open up.

And the note would say, bro, I need some coffee. And then that guy would get an envelope, fill it up with coffee, tie it to it. And then be like, all right. And then he'd tug it back. Yeah. He'd pull. Plus, you'd be in there with your cell. You want some coffee?

I don't have no coffee. You know what? And it would take like, it would take like maybe five hours to get that note over there. But you ain't got shit else to fucking do. Yeah. that shit doesn't do it like why and the other inmates would help like it might shoot in no and they knew and they knew not to look at the no yeah they knew not to look at the note you shoot it to another if it go because sometimes you shoot it would literally go like this down and

you shoot it into that guy's thing and he he knows he really he's not supposed to look at that no you know what i mean it's kind of like a code you know what i mean you know it's funny the um the ceos in the in the shoe uh when they would walk like when i was going to the shoe one time like Like, there were lines all through the hallway. Oh, yeah. And they'd see the cop coming. And all of a sudden, they'd start pulling them back in. And you'd see all these lines sliding across and sliding into the, it was like, it's like a spider web in reverse.

This is this is happening. Because in there you have no, you have nothing but time. Nothing else to do to entertain yourself. If nothing else, just getting that note down there entertained you for five hours. Oh, and what a feeling of accomplishment. Oh, yeah. God. This is my life.

That's how low my expectations of like my out of life or it's so low that I'm going to spend three hours trying to fucking you don't even want any help. I got you bro. No, I want to do it. Right. Or you might just be doing it just to, you know,

pass on a message. You know what I mean? Hey, bro, what's up? How are you doing down there? Yeah. That was two hours. There were things that we used to do, you know, we would do.

We would pump toilets. right from the toilet and then I could talk to my next door there through the pipeline the toilet so in ACDC the women's dorm was either like above or below and these guys would they get all rid of all of it and they would sit there and talk to some girl three stories above them they're like on a date like guys would be like bro I got a date at seven yeah yeah there's chick at seven yeah through the toilet yep I mean, that's just ridiculous. How horrible. And all of that, too, but the toilet also is a vacuum. So, like, if you were to just smoking, you could just blow it down to that toilet and it would suck the, the smoke right down in there. I mean, it's ingenious. Some of these guys in there are really harsh, if they were, including myself, if they actually took their, you know, their smarts and everything and just pushed it in the right direction, they, they could. they would be successful people out here you know what i mean they have all the the skills to be

successful but they're just using it in the wrong avenues yeah uh including like i said including myself you know you say i i you're your your grill with the uh the things so so they do you see what actually do you see what actually says no what is it i can't it's something is it something land panda panda and it says panda and it actually has the panda on the last You gotta show you got to show it on this camera right here I was going to go down There we go to the other folks We have to get that to get him

Got to be from no picture Right I was going to say when I first got locked up Like I've been locked up I don't know like a month or so And I was in Oklahoma City going through Oklahoma City There was this black guy that we were all in this one holding cell Right And there was a black guy was probably 50 guys

crammed into a room probably maybe this size yeah maybe maybe 70 guys probably maybe not quite this big and I remember there's this black guy who clearly was working out and taking steroids he was massive right I've had to find a few of those well no I mean I'm just standing I'm saying it sucks oh I'm just standing in the room with him and um and I glanced over and I thought fuck this guy's massive see and he's standing there myself that time to think that because then he's he's just sitting there because keep mind most of the people going to the transfer center have like they've well half of them have been arrested either they're going to another prison or they've just been arrested so you're just sitting

there like you're still kind of like in like just numb yeah and he's standing there it takes time to accept the fact that like your situation yeah and so we're just sitting there and you're waiting to be called and he and i i kind of i look oh look i just happened to look at him as he's like kind of we're both kind of looking around and he looks over at me and he goes and he he he he but i could see his teeth like i'd never seen that before right right and this guy looked like a bigger version of blade and so when he does that when he kind of smiles and i see the teeth i go holy shit like that and he goes and he laughs he goes then he laughs and i went bro are those really he said he goes yeah he said they're in there i was like fuck i said you

look like a fucking superhero and he just started laughing he's like you start we it was you could tell he must have just gotten arrested for something he was laughing and and we're just everybody's super quiet like they're quite unless one or two guys might know each other and they're talking and but it's funny because i've mentioned this before there's an old man there had to be in his 70s or something maybe 80s and he he looks wait sorry the old man says um i go to the restroom and he sees the door and he walks over to the door and grabs the door and it goes and it it doesn't open he goes hey they got us locked in here and i and i said reality check yeah and i went i said yeah it's probably going to be a lot of a lot of locked doors like that and the black guy goes what are you here

for like that and he goes hi just was uh i was just my my my daughter she's more my my granddaughter she's one of those those those lesbians she's gay she's well and uh i was just she asked me to videotape her and her friend yeah and and so you know then they they said we should put it on the uh the internet and so then they came and arrested me yeah and i sat there and i was just like and look the guy like the black guy like looked at me and he goes like what like i was like he would have got beat up right then at that moment yeah well we was you know we were like a transfer center But it was, so he, we just looked at it. I said, all I could think of was like,

you are so green that you should have know to kept that shit to yourself. You really, that's a bad, like even though I know you phrased it as best you could, you could put that. You cannot phrase that in any way. Yeah, I mean, it, yeah, I was thinking, you're done. Like, no matter what, you need to learn to shut the fuck up. If that was the best version he could give, you need to learn to shut the way up. You got him.

And you could tell he just, he was just clueless. Yeah, he's an old man. He's like an old man. And he didn't fucking know, the door was locked. And by the way, there was a toilet like right over here. I was like, bro, there's a toilet over there. Oh, yeah. That's how you know who's like really been there like that somebody was not going to waste it.

Wait, they're going to go take a shit. Yeah. They're going to go take a shit. And he's looking around like, well, there's all these people in here. It's like, that's going to happen too. No, yeah. I mean, I remember my first time sitting in the old zone and then I remember every, every time after that. You know what I mean?

It's definitely different once you've been down there before. But yeah, like he, yeah, and it's funny because the same thing you said, like, there are people that I knew in prison, right, that when I got out, the internet had now, AOL, this is when you still had dial up and everything like that, and I could go on and search the Georgia Department of Cretions on some of these people. And like, I'm like, dude, you were fucking bad about. I had no idea. You told me some story that you beat some kid out of school with a baseball bat.

You know what I mean? And it was so intricate story that he told me. I'm thinking you're in there person, I've got to aggravated assault, and it turns out you're out there molested little kids. It always kills me is that they typically, you know what the lie is when they ask them, what are you here for? It's, oh, fraud. You got to pick fraud, right? Like, you can't say drugs or, like, not that anybody's going to believe you were selling drugs, like just looking at these guys. It's like, you're not selling drugs.

But fraud, you got to go with my crime. Like, and then I would have to be, these guys would ask me to come. And check them. Yeah, they'd say, Cox, that dude here says he's here's fraud. the fraud go talk to him i like i don't want to talk to them why and they go just go find out here's what he's saying and i go fuck that's nothing information is everything everybody wants information well i wasn't rich as power well i was gonna say i'd walk over and listen like you knew within like you know another drug dealer all right especially if he has no idea like you try to talk to me

about drugs like bro i can't fake it i can't tell you i don't know what the cost i don't know where to get it i can't you see it in a second same thing with the fraud guys i'd walk over and within And within three minutes, I'm like, yeah, he's got, he had pictures on his computer. Right. And I'm walking away. Like, that's it. It's done. It's obvious.

Like, you know, they would get the names of the charges wrong. They couldn't tell you what they did. They couldn't tell you how they didn't. Or they didn't want to talk about it at all. Like, oh, my lawyer said not to talk about it. Stop it, bro. Right. That's already tells you something.

Yeah. You know, no, these guys that I'm in there, like, they had these stories. They've been telling them their life for so damn long that they actually probably believe he'd be so kidding about, you know, baseball bat. You know, and it was just one. I just kind of randomly went on there to look for myself. Yeah. And then I was like, you know what?

Let me just type in some of these guys that I knew. And it was just like, man, I was like, man, I would have never sit there and talk to you. Like that, that is a true thing about that. Like, you know, about rape and like molestations, like on kids and stuff like that. Like guys, they definitely do take that a certain way in prison. Yeah. Because, like, for example, I knew a cellie that, you know. to keep pictures of his kids up right and then he had noticed his roommate one day would like

be like like he like like when guys are in there jacking off whatever you know you know the little thing here there's a little cold let you know hey i need the room for a little while but he would notice his pictures would be moved like it wouldn't be put back in the exact right spot and that was it bro let's he got so bad they wouldn't let you put your pictures on the cork board you know in your sell you had to keep them in the in the locker yeah we didn't have a cork bar you guys got TVs in your in your cells too no I heard some some some feds you got TV no I know the food was good you say the food was compared to when I first got there it was really good and then just about a year well maybe six months to a year after I got there they went on what they called the national menu

and so it just immediately got to be much worse but But in comparison to state prison or even what you expect inmates to be served, it wasn't bad. There were some exceptional, at least once or twice a week, you got a meal that you're like, damn, that's like street food. Yeah, that happened to us at Christmas. Yeah, yeah, Christmas. We get the holiday meal. The holiday meal. That's the only time we get.

And I would buy as many of those traces I could, you know, and then you obviously package, you know, you get like the holiday package where they could send you like some. Well, no, the feds actually gave us that you got a holiday basket. They actually gave you one where they actually gave you food. You know, and it wasn't, so I'm going to say it wasn't shit. Like, it wasn't like anything a lot. It doesn't matter of the fact that you can't have it. It's the fact that you can't have it. It doesn't matter what it is.

It's the fact that you cannot have it. It's the fact that you're giving me something when I'm an inmate in prison. You're giving me what's probably $10 worth of food. And it's, and it's, I remember this guy, uh, used to say he's like, they're exotics. So because it was something they didn't sell on commissary. If they didn't have it on commissary, if they didn't have it on commissary, I paid probably $15 for a bottle of soy sauce that a guy can't, got transferred over. There's probably $1.99 in the store at his store at that other camp, because

commissaries are different based on where you're at. So when you get transferred over, you're bringing your commissary with you. And man, those are exotics. Like, you know, things that you just can't, if you just can't have it, man, that price goes up just like drugs oh my god like the the cause of drugs and in prison is as astronomical compared to like the markup so my cousin worked in facilities at coleman and he knew they knew about six months before they were going to go that no more cigarettes like you could have i'm so glad that i didn't but but he knew for six months so what he did not only that he so he went to his

boss and said, listen, they're fucking, there's tools everywhere. Like, it's hard to keep it in touch. Can I build a, a board where we can actually put the tools? And he, his, his boss was like, that's a good eye. Yeah, definitely. He's like, like, I need like three of them, like one over here. We can put two here. Can we, we have the stuff? And he's like, yeah. So he built these boards and then traced all the tools. You know, had it. Oh, yeah. How they should. How should be. But because if you're going to make something to cover something, you're going to make it look good. But. But It was framed out in a two by four. And if you remove like four screws, you could peel it back.

And he, so now he's got a four inch by six feet by, you know, four feet section that he can stack all of the cigarette. So he's like, we had, he's like, and keep in mind too, he said initially they were selling the cigarettes for like almost double. He said within a month and a half, two months, they're buying now it's like five times, six times what they were buying them for. so he made they made thousands he and i think this guy weeks that i knew i think they both like just were stacked stockpiling that is the hustle now even when i was in rye street it's funny uh the trustees at rye street the guys who brought the trays down around and stuff like that they were allowed to have cigarettes in their commissary but like other inmates weren't allowed to have it right and every time you see the trustees come around passing out trays i mean they got cold

chains on every ring every finger has diamond rings on it because it writes you you are allowed to bring up one piece of jewelry a watch or or a ring or your necklace or whatever like that and these guys were literally trading out like 10,000 dollar chains four or five packs of roll up cigarettes you know what I mean like these guys are nuts yeah it's not and it's another story I tell you I was sitting at the holding cell at uh Atlanta City jail when I right after the after the murder and there was a guy in there snuck a snickers bar like you said snuck a snickers bar to the holding sale right and there was another dude in there it's like hey man what would you take for that snickers bar you know and a guy's like no man i don't really

want to give it up you know what i'm saying he's like come on man what was you give for that stickers bar right this guy peeled out like a diamond ring a gold chain i'm probably talking about like at least like 15 20 thousand dollars worth of jewelry for that snickers bar and gave it up for the Snickers bar because it's just like what is this going to do for me right now like this might be the last i can't bring it with me they're going to take it from yeah like he's like i'm i want this knickers bar right you know what i mean like like it's just you're always tell the guys that are about they got arrested that know they're about to do 10 years like they just got arrested and they know and the guys that got arrested that think

they're going to get out and they're this like they there's priorities are completely oh yeah and that's what kills me is like you know i'm sitting in all sell somebody's talking and like you're in there for a fucking goddamn d u r some shit like you're about to be you're about to be home and you're sitting here crying about this shit and i don't know if i'm gonna be in here for the rest of my life for all i know you know what i mean like that also like well colby colby's heard me say this i was sitting at the medium one time and i was complaining about my time i was like i'm fucking be like 60 years old when i get out and they were i was sitting with like three guys and one guy was like i got 30 more years and the other two said i'm never

leaving yeah i remember thinking stop complaining bro nobody gives a fuck about your problems also like when uh the day i when i found out i got parole right i was like nobody knew i don't tell anybody yeah yeah and then they but the day that i left i walked out handed to my boys on my things like hey man i see you guys that was it yeah like people get jealous people will fuck you up just because they know that like hey you're about to to go home and they're not they start hating on you yeah they start really despising you and trying to get you into trouble and trying to start fights with you it's like they because this guy's got 10 more years or 15 or 20 or maybe life and he just he just looks at you and you're going home in a week

and he hates you for that and he's jealous and it's a real thing it sounds stupid but it's a real thing absolutely and this could this person could even be your friend right you know me it could be a friend of yours that like still feels that way like it's just You just don't tell anybody. I don't tell anybody. Like, literally, they found out when I was walking out carrying all my shit. You know what I mean? Like, you just don't tell people.

You know, Zach and I had a buddy named John Gordon that literally just disappeared one day. Knew he was being shipped, never told him. And we spent, I should you not, two years with John Gordon, every single day we hung out with him and talked to him and joked with him and super smart guy, funny guy. Like, I would have told you 100% we are all good, good, as good of a friend as I am. him to Zach and John Gord just disappeared nobody's ever seen him since I know clue and I always kind of said like this too like when you're in prison it's like you're dead right because time stops for you at that point all you do in prison is regurgitate stories that you that you had when you were free right because you're not talking about nothing out you're just telling war stories

right so time for you completely stops whereas outside the world the time's still moving Well, you stop maturing, too. Yeah, everything stops. You're stopped at that point in your life. That is what you are and you do not get any better. Right, right? And like when people come to visit you, it's like, I say it's like come and visit a Gravestone.

You know what I mean? Until you get out and that's when time starts back for you again. Like, I went in with like Pagers when Pagers were around. That's when I got locked up. I come out and there's dial up internet. like I'm telling you I was dial up like imagine me coming out like an iPhone I never seen an iPhone in my life yeah yeah yeah I came out with like they they had like cell phones yeah and dial up in there the amount of porn that I because that's one thing they did

take away in prison they took away all the all the magazines right so that was a hustle I had several pay I didn't have whole magazines at pages from from from some you know what I mean with the tape over was it right yeah with that I that I this is a hustle too yeah you want to borrow my girl yeah it costs you a honey buddy you can borrow her for to get you your your you're straightening right so like one man I had masturbation the same girl wrongly all many times right I get out of prison I'm like the internet I don't think I left the computer for a week I mean it was just it was crazy like it just it blew my mind the whole internet thing just blew my mind and that was only like three years yes

and i was three years because because from went from so from pagers and when i got out it was uh cell phones and it was right when those no kia phones were having like everybody everybody has had snake i don't know if you're around her that time the game snake you remember and they i like the different that's when i got out right so like now cell phones were like mobile and text messages all this was all new and you know all i knew was pages but that is now the hot item in prison cell phones yeah like those i mean one cell phone will go for thousands of dollars in prison you know um but i'm hearing now they're giving out like uh tablets yeah you know i think yeah they've got tablets out right yeah and things like that uh it's it's just it's just different now but like the tobacco is the

the big thing you know uh you know how they get it in nowadays you know before you know they did the the tennis ball or they get it through visitation right or the drone officer the drones they're doing the drone drops now and that's crazy that that that's how sophisticated that they have become to override the system to get away get around the system like it's always a way to get around the you're going to figure something out they're going to figure something out because they have nothing to do but time to think about it right you know what i mean nothing else to do but time to think about it like i mean just like uh the guy from shaw shang redemption look how many years it took him from the dig out that hole with that little stupid rock hammer you know we had

pressure in time and i was just say um it we were talking when we were talking about like the not being concerned about prison anymore like that's how i i feel like now like the prison isn't a deterrent for me was the deterrent for me is that i'm too old to go back to prison like i'm i like i can't lose any more time out here i wouldn't care if i to go to prison for five years like okay fine the problem is now i have to start over so i'm not scared of being in prison I'm scared that I have to start over I'm an old man what am I'm saying like I don't if I was 30 years old right now if I was 30 years old and I would have been twice as bad as I was when I was actually doing my crime I would have been much more reckless now if I went back in time because I would be

thinking going to prison I'm not concerned about because I know I can I know I'll be okay yeah so you know it's not it's not it's not the it's not the fear of going or being in there it's the fear of losing your freedom right fear of like hey like now we have i don't know how old you were when i was very young so now i have responsibilities that you know back then i didn't have a responsibility so it was there's no big deal but now i go in who's going to pay the mortgage he's going to take care of my kids like you know they're there they're there they're there ramifications now that are way more important but back then you know i didn't think about those things so how old were you the last time you got out it happened in two i got to i got

out in 2003. What did you start doing then? Like, I'm assuming at that point, you decided that I can't do this again. Believe it or not, it was kind of like a stroke of luck here. So one of my guys, like, like you said, your buddies and they're like, you know, your click. Yeah. Right. One of my guys got out six months after me, right?

And his mom was a administrative assistant at a big accounting firm, right? And so they hire people to come in seasonally to help out during tax season, right? So he got me a job there as a temp that ended up turning into a career, a 20-year career. Like, I was actually an eight corporate auditor for affordable housing for a top ten, for a top-ten accounting firm for 20 years. You've got multiple felonies. That doesn't matter. Well, because you work underneath them. Well, it's actually funny because I literally lied on my, because back then in 2003, it wasn't as easy to run a background check as it is now.

Now it's just, they got companies out there. Like, you know, I couldn't even get hired for Uber. Right. You know what I mean? Like, even though my last crime was like over 20-something years ago, it doesn't matter. You know what I mean? Like, but what happened was I went and it was happened, Katrina happened, right? And after Katrina happened and the Gulf Coast was like annihilated, right?

The U.S. government gave Mississippi an $8 billion grant to fix, right, to help. To rebuild. So they hired our firm to implement a process and how to delegate out this money. Okay. Right. So they sent us to Mississippi to oversee these centers that had these people coming in and applying for these. grants right so i was i was sent over there for like six months you know overseeing a center so that's a nice chunk of money right relocation you you're you're you get paid a lot more if you're not necessary

no we did get a little bonus but it wasn't not it wasn't necessarily you know i mean obviously expenses are paid thought it'd be like a traveling nurse like these chicks are going from they would be making 60 and now they're making 150 000 yeah no it wasn't nothing like that oh okay but what happened was because it was a government funded program, we had run background checks on all the people who worked there because we hired people that were our locals there. We oversaw them. But on the back end, they ended up wanting to have to run among us because we had to have the clearance. Right. Right. So then I was like, this is already too late. I had already did the job, right? So I was like, fuck. This was like five, six years in, right? I'm like, I went to my partner,

close the door. First thing he said to me was like, please don't tell me you're about to quit. And I was like, no, but that doesn't necessarily mean I still have a job when I walk out this door. Right. And I laid my cards on the table. You know what I mean? And it was very like hush, it was I worked for two partners. I was going to say, is this your buddy's mother? No. Oh, she's, she's definitely worked there anymore. She just got you the job. Yeah, she's got a job. This is a partner of the firm. Okay. And so it went from him and my other partner that work for two guys and then they went to the head managing partner of the Atlanta office right and then he had to fly all the way to Bethesda which is

where our corporate headquarters to talk to the partner over HR about it because immediate it's their their their their proper way to handle is immediate termination right right but they found they saw that I was an asset because by then you've been working there for a hard and I'm an asset I was bringing I was bringing up money so then they were like you know they went to talk to her and what all ended up happening was just like look us four people know that's it right we don't ever tell anybody else anything we're sweeping under the rug because the reason why is let's say something happens there and online another guy happens they fire him and he's like yo well what happened

to panda why didn't panic get fired you know what I'm saying like you know so it was also up on the So that was like five, six years into my career, I stayed in it another 15 years. You know what I mean? Right. And unfortunately, I actually got let go about a year ago, you know, from the job. It broke my heart because it's like, dude, I was loyal to you guys for 20 years. You know, like my boss was loyal to you for 20 years and you threw me away like a piece of trash. You know what I mean?

Like. Was there a reason? Just they were layoffs. No, it wasn't even, it's really kind of all the mystery, honestly. Like, it kind of came out of the blue. There was no severance, but it wasn't a firing. They were just saying that my position has no longer has been dissolved, that they don't have that need anymore because I was still making them a lot of money.

You know, I was bringing in the firm probably like five, six hundred thousand dollars a year, easily covered my salary, you know, and they were making a nice bit of change. yes they probably could have hired somebody else cheaper than me you know what I mean but honestly like you know I'm only here only making that because you guys gave it to me I mean I'm ready for 20 years or loyalty that's why I kind of mess with my head man it's like you know these trust issues right yeah the trust issues like so like yeah let me go and then now I'm finding how hard it is to get a job with it like I said I got I got turned now by Uber right and you got a member of how humble humbling I had to be to like you know yeah

I'm working I was like a corporate auditor with office for precedes for 20 years you know and then now I'm humbled myself to that and it still can't get a job like it's just that that that thing carries with you forever you know and they don't care how long ago they don't even give you the opportunity to even explain it they don't care and you know what my charges were so bad like I hit every point one burglaries so I'm a thief right two I raise Alzheimer I'm violent right three drugs I mean I mean it doesn't matter what it is look at the job it is like yeah I'm gonna hit the strike mark on that all the worst employer potential so like even though I have like 20 years of experience

it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter at all you know so that's why I've kind of like branched down that's why I'm even doing this show with you now because this was a deep dark secret I could never have my career with this being out there you know what I mean but now I found out that that career doesn't matter anymore because there is no potential there anymore so that's why I'm like I'm I'm coming out from behind the curtain I'm not going to be that because I used to wear a mask I mean I can't wear corporate America walking in like yeah yeah you know what I mean I wore that mask you know what I mean for 20 years you know but now hey man I don't have to be a man I don't need a high buy on a curtain

obviously it you know I'm just going to be me and and let the world see who I and and figure out well I mean just being you doesn't pay the bills what are you doing for for what are you doing right now for a living what are you doing for I'm still looking uh I'm not looking in in that route I'm looking more of as an entrepreneur right so I created a school curriculum i was there i went back to vietnam you know yeah i went back to vietnam last year for the first time in my entire life in 40 years first time i ever went back since you were six months old yes so six months old i went back for the first time and honestly it was in a dark place

you know what i mean like i had like depression issues and and things that i mean trust issues you know right and it's all it's on my bucket list to go back you know what i mean so i myself went back for a month and it just opened my eyes to a completely different way of living and like culturally like over there when they honked the horn at you it's not like a fuck you kind of thing right it's like uh hey just letting you know i'm here you know what i mean it's it's it's it's a courtesy right you know what i mean like you'll see these intersections to have like no stoplights and And there are like a million scooters and cars that are just going through this and isn't. And yet there are no accidents because people just let people go.

You know what I mean? It's just, it's just a completely different lifestyle. And it kind of like, kind of rejuvenated me that like, hey, this is pretty awesome. You know what I mean? Like, and so like, I was trying to think like, what ability to do I have, you know? So I can teach you shingios. You know, so I'm creating an online school that I could teach. It's like, they're 12 hours apart from us.

So, like, my classes would be like 7, 8, 9, 10 p.m. here, and over there it would be 7, 8, 9, 10 a.m. Okay. You know, and I'm looking for, and this is a totally new venture. I haven't, like, completely, I've already created my own curriculum. Right. And everything. But I now have to go get the students, you know. So we're in a phase right now where I am trying different avenues, right?

So my rap thing is one avenue. The school is one avenue. Also, I'm considering maybe opening some kind of business here because being your own boss, obviously, it doesn't matter what your record is. Right. You know what I mean? So I've been living off. I had to, like, liquidate my retirement to be able to last for now. Whoa.

You know, I mean, it sucked. That really, that really hurt. but it's kind of like hey the bills keep coming the kid i have children you know i mean so but i'm in that like hustle mode you know i'm in the hustle mode i'm i'm now not afraid to tell my story anymore like my rapping is a lot of like street you know i mean and and and they're not lies they're just like they're it's just real life shit that i went through but the difference is a lot of these rappers nowadays like 21 savage and they're they're living that life right now like they're rapping about their life right now that's why they're still getting shot that's why

it's still going through all that shit with me is like hey I'm just telling you about how I used to live it right you know because for 20 years I was not you know some gangster like it like that like you know I was a corporate guy you know and a model citizen you know for 20 years but you know now circumstances have led to to things so like I look for avenues I'm honestly I'm I'm hoping maybe this might even be a jumpstart for something that might be able to help me. You know what I mean? So I'm always just looking for different avenues. I do have a very good network in Atlanta.

A lot of people know me. So I am now just starting to reach out and try to see like, I don't want to have all my eggs in one basket, but whichever basket happens to be one that takes off is the one that I'm going to focus manage on. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You have double down on what's making your money. Exactly.

So, you know, I have, like I said, my own. channels i got music that i got out and we'll just see what happens to take off what channels what i'm like my oh i got a youtube channel i created it that's got some of my songs on that's like if we sample some of the songs that you guys hear some of the stuff what if you what's the name of the channel it's all panda panda yeah i i'll i'll send you all my uh links social links yeah how did panda come about because you've never mentioned panda before i mean other than the teeth and then the the well the thing is i kind of feel you myself like pandas a nation thing right right uh and but people forget that pandas are actually still

fucking bears right you know they they're cuddly and all these videos but you keep forgetting that they're a fucking bear still you know what I like so that's kind of like I feel like I am right I come at you and in a very smiley way but inside it could go bad I'm a fucking bear still you know what I mean like don't get it twisted you know and like a lot of things have I don't know if you noticed that. My limp when I walked in. I noticed on the Instagram page, you have a brace on one of the legs. Right.

So what happened in 2009, I was hit by a drunk driver. And I was on a motorcycle. And unfortunately, he had no insurance. He was an illegal. Right. So I was in intensive care. I went through surgeries. And so basically, I lost the use of a right leg.

I had the leg. I just don't have the nerves. Right. Because basically my right foot was here when that showed up. It means I was laying on top of my leg that folded under my body. Not to mention, you know, you see here, I mean, these arms broke down. I was like Wolverine. You know, my left leg was also broken.

They didn't think I was going to survive. Like literally, the first responders that showed up treated it as it was going to be a homicide. They roped off the scene and collected evidence because they thought that there's no way I was going to make it. That this guy was going to have to be charged with vehicle homicide. But I made it. I didn't have any brain damage. Yeah, maybe. Jerry's still out of that.

Ain't no more than I've done to myself. How long were you, was it to recover? I mean, to this day, I'm still, you know, I still take medication over. before it uh i still have like nerve like nerve ending pains because the nerves ripped you know what i mean so uh but it took it took a while to get to to where i was right now because i mean at that time remember both arms both legs were broken but bones heal you know so like i was literally like i couldn't do anything right you know and that was a very humbling experience you know to like have someone have to take care of you that you couldn't do i couldn't brush my own teeth yeah i couldn't

take a shit right you know what I mean like it's a humbling experience to to to have to go through that you know but it taught me you know um then I went through a breakup after that I was in a seven and a half years relationship we got engaged and then like part of ways so then I kind of basically like I was a shell of myself for a while after that I was like a hermit I just didn't I was in that dark place and i stayed there you know i was in a house by myself i got a dog you know what i mean and he kind of saved me too because i he wasn't necessarily emotional pet or anything like that but he he forced me to be like look i need you to feed me i need you to take care of me you have to get up off your ass because i need you you know what i mean uh but you know it's a funny story because i my

buddies and I have some really good friends out there that I just wouldn't like let me just wither away right you know and they would you know before that I was a big I'm a big social person I'm extroverted I'm at the clubs I'm I'm you know I'm an Atlanta socialite and um they kept trying to get me to go out again and things like that and I'm just like man I can't deal with a crowd crowd I got made up every fucking excuse under the sun not to go right and so my buddy told me it was like you know what can you sit down i was like sit down yeah that's one thing i can do i can sit down he's like i'm gonna take you to a place that all you got to fucking do is sit in a chair trip club that's exactly where he fucking took me exactly what colby was thinking exactly where he took me

right and yeah i've been to mons in 2001 space auss 242 but like uh but that's where he took me but that's what brought me back that was my rehabilitation that'll do it because what happened was for 10 in Atlanta is $10 for a dance right so for $10 she's going to listen to you for the next three four minutes you know so I might as well talk then I learned to find out that hey girls would look past this if your game is strong enough you know what I mean and that kind of brought my confidence level back to becoming the panda that you guys see now you know because the way I look at it is like this when I walk into any place because of my disability every fucking eye in there is on me right you know you don't notice like if let me ask you if

you're walking down on aisle and and Walmart and three people are coming down the same aisle and one's in a wheelchair which one is one you're looking at the one in the wheelchair you can't help it it's not malicious yeah it's just different your eyes are just trying to look at the different you're not used to it right you're just looking at the difference right but from the eye of that person in that wheelchair every fucking body is looking at it. Right. You know what I'm saying?

So, like, when I walk into the gym, I can look around and make eye contact with fucking everybody. You know, it takes a certain level of confidence to finally just say, you know what? If I'm going to be in the fucking spotlight, I'm going to look good in it.

And I'm going to fucking own it. You know what I mean? Because I'm already going to get the attention anyway. So let's go ahead and rock this attention. Right. You know? And it's because of the Strip Club But I always say confidence is a catch-22, right?

What builds confidence? Success. Right. But how do you get success? You have to have the confidence to go over there and try. Right. All right. But once you get success, that success builds that confidence up.

So now that confidence gives you a more, a chance to go out there and try in. Right. So the more success you get, the more confidence you get. So like now, my will is like, this you know what I mean like I don't let this define me if you ask me about it I'll explain it I don't have a problem explaining it but I don't need you to be like when they say hey you know panda I don't want them to be the that to be the first thing that comes to mind to describe me yeah now you know the funny guy the guy the grill is the rapper all those now they still don't

know okay the guy with the limb let it be the third fourth thing that comes down the line you know I'm saying because that that doesn't define me and it's funny because I meet people people all the time and like the third time I'll meet them they're like oh my god did you just get an accident what happened to you like I was like this every fucking time I ever met you yeah you don't mean but you ain't asked I don't care I ain't yeah I didn't notice anything so I saw the the picture you know I'm saying I wasn't even thinking about it till you know you mentioned I was like oh that's right yeah he's got the picture that's why it's why it's because like in my rap song and stuff you don't limp or it well I didn't see you

living you didn't look like you but I do you know like I said I just I don't care I own it I just, I don't, I don't care. I don't give a fuck what you think about. I'm at the point of why I just don't give a fuck what somebody thinks. Like, you don't pay my bills. You don't fucking affect my life. I may never see you again. Why the fuck do I care about what the fuck do you think?

I don't. It's funny when you get, how you get to the point when you're older anyway. Like in general, just in, you know, you're so concerned when you're younger or whatever he thinks and what they're talking about, what they're saying. And as you get, you get older, you know,

you start to realize that you just don't care. I saw this thing that said they said and then when you're in your like your 50s and 60s you realize that nobody was ever paying attention to you at all I was saying now that I don't care but now guess what they never did pay attention but see when you're young and like when we're in prison that reputation mattered yeah right that that shit that shit mattered like I got girls when I was young because of my reputation as the rep right now now that rap don't mean shit you know what I'm saying like I don't give a fuck what you think you know whatever you don't mean like if it's a brand or something like that yeah I'll listen but it's like

honestly like if you're not like doing anything to benefit me what why do I my your opinion doesn't mean doesn't mean shit and like I'm the type that like if you're a parasite I'm gonna remove you trash belongs in the trash I don't give a fuck what it is you all I'm saying like so like negative energy all that shit I I'll leave away from them questions what is it what is this the green the green one oh it's jade right so this right here is Guanyu which is the it's kind of weird because it's a Chinese he's like the god of war okay right and I got a lot of rash from that accident but yeah yeah well

this is the recent accident yeah right so that's one you right here he rise is on a horse which is right and that's him here okay that much more He's the Chinese got a war, which is weird because this is Chinese, but yet the dragon and stuff is like the Yakuza, like Japanese. Yeah, I saw that. I thought of that when I saw. Yeah. It's the, it's a Japanese, but to me, it doesn't matter. It's like, it's Asian, I'm Asian, whatever, we're all the same thing.

You know what I mean? But yeah, that's who he is, you know, and like, you know, and I got it in Vietnam. Yeah, I figured that. Yeah, I got in Vietnam. And, and Asian culture, Jade is a very big thing. It's luck, you know, prosperity and things. like that so like being an Asian guy I can pull this off what's this one that's just a dragon okay this is dragon uh yeah nothing special um but yeah man that's uh I said I I said I conformed for 20 years

like I was that you know guy but you know what still even in those 20 years like I was still panda like I uh when when I was when it was time for me to be When I was at work, I was, I was that guy. Yeah, I wore the mask. But, like, when I'm on my time, I'm going to be me. Like, I own over 200-something pair of Jordans, right? Why do I own 200 pair of Jordans? No idea.

Because when I was a kid, I couldn't have them. Right. Like, we shopped at pay less. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I had my, I remember my very first pair of Jordan. He got game 13s, right? And the only reason why I had that pair was because I took it off some kid off martyr.

happened to wear my size you know what i mean like there's no way mom was paying that money i was going to say bozac it's funny you say that because bozac at one point when he was really like making money he had like a hundred and some odd pairs of like uh i want to see of of nikes he had all the special ones and all this he had a he had like a storage that's why that's why tyler wants me to meet him i guess you know what i mean i guess it's got a lot got in common you know but um yeah i it's a guilty pleasure yeah and to me it's almost kind of like it really is kind of still like investment their whole value like if shit gets the van like I can sell them and they have value yeah you know is oh he's sold and he now he'll buy

shoes and then he'll wear them you know for whatever a month or you wouldn't make five times within a month or two 10 times and then he'll sell them yeah you know so I even I even know there was a kid that at the gym uh that where I was in the halfway house I worked at a gym um that my buddy owns there was actually like a couple of kids there that actually went and they they did something like they stood in line to get new pairs of nikes and then they sold them like and that's all they did they sold it to people right in line yeah they were they sure they try I don't know but they traveled around they did this all the time they had they had all these Nike scam like not scams but they weren't scams because they were just legitimately saying I have these

they're basically upselling it's the second mark secondary right and they had a whole It was a whole thing. It was like, that's what their jobs were. I was like, that's a fucking job. That's still now. Yeah. That's still now. This is only a few years ago.

Well, back then, like, well, the Jordan game used to be very, where they were very elite. They came out once a month and now they're coming out every other weekend. You know, every weekend. I think he's fucking that up where he's kind of flooding the market with a little bit. Now they're not as prestigious as they used to be. But back then, yeah, I was waiting in line at Lenny's Mall or, you know, I had a guy, you know, or some kind of plug now they got bots that literally will go online and and buy them off these websites and then they go to resell you know what I mean but yeah like but I was never a guy people

called me a sneaker head I'm not a sneaker head I don't I like I buy shoes because they've over a hundred pair of jordan yeah but it's because I like I like the colors I buy based on like a color to fit an outfit more than more than like hey is this one like hype right like is this one like super valuable i don't care about it i actually hate it when it comes along like that because if there's a pair that i did want that is hype now it's going to be harder for me to get that pair you know what i mean but like yeah i buy them based on like just a lot of my uh tags are like panda and jays like you know i'm a panda that wears jays you know what i mean like but now i kind i kind of step my game up i like a little bit designer so you know i'm which i shouldn't

because one pair of Versauchis, I could have bought like Fort Richard's way. You know, but yeah, shoes is kind of like my, my guilty pleasure, definitely, and, uh, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, like, to kind of like, like, go in my own lane, you know, like I said, once you get, once you stop giving the shit what people think about it, you're just going to be yourself. Right. You know? Yeah. And I think a lot of people, you'd be surprised how many people, like, step up to me and just like, hey, man, I, I really like your fit or, you know, I really like how you rock this or whatever. You know, but I didn't do it for you.

I did it because that's how I like to wear it. You know what I mean? But yeah, apparently a lot of people do like the way I dress. And I've been sent like as an ambassador, though, send me free products so that I can like, I mean, I wish it got to the point where I like Gucci and shit. Maybe one day I get bigger out where Gucci is sending me free shit to wear their stuff. But, you know, it's just a little stuff here and there. But, yeah, I mean, kind of consider myself a little bit of a trend center. yeah people always tell me to write my memoirs because like i've been through so much tragedy

in my life like i've been through some some hardships why don't you write it because i'm all i'm waiting for the happy ending oh we had this conversation right and waiting for the stop right it doesn't you know that's irrelevant because if it's going to be a motivate if i wanted to be a motivational story it doesn't have to be a motive necessarily motivation uh this could be entertaining it could just be for because you know for prosperity you know for prosperity for what i'm trying to say um popularity no because that's what it really about i'm about to preserve it yeah to preserve it yeah let's just say that you know what i use for that i use facebook for that whether or not we might have to clip that out um posterity posterity

there you go so yeah it's for posterity you know just that just to have it all written down and if you if you start writing and you know whatever you take take a week and write an outline a little bit we'll We'll write like 30 minutes a day and slowly, you know, I definitely got to start here. I'll think about dictating. I've actually had broken down chapters. Right. And then you turn around and say, okay, well, now I'm going to write this story and this story.

If you start piecing it together before you know it a year from now, you'll be like, holy shit, I got a whole fucking memoir here. No, I don't, I don't, the doing it, I don't think is the problem. It's the me wanting it, how it, how it ends. You know what I mean? You can worry about that later. If that happens at all. If it happens at all, you know, maybe, maybe it could be a tragedy.

Yeah, maybe it, you know, who knows? It doesn't have to be anything at the ending. I mean, it's, it's, you know, some endings are just, you know, somebody walks out of fucking prison. It's like like that, that book, you know, about the hurricane, the guy that, you know, was locked up. The boxer guy. Like, it was like, you know, oh, it's a happy ending.

It's a happy ending. He spent 30 years in prison for something he didn't do. There's no, well, they let him out. It doesn't matter. That's not a, I promised you. That ain't a happy ending. So, you know, there doesn't have to be a happy. And the happy ending could just be like, you know, I'm still going.

and, you know, I love my life and I've, you know, things are working out and I'm still, you know, I'm still in the struggle, but I love it. That's good enough. The happy ending. Things aren't working out. But we're hoping that they will. You know, I do try to keep like, because when I talk to other people, a lot of people tell me I should be a motivational speaker because I'm like that prep. I'm a hell of a pep coach, you know what I'm saying? But sometimes it's hard to even take your own advice sometimes. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like sometimes it's easier said than done. Like, I see a psychiatrist and a therapist once a month.

You know, I have demons. Right. You know? So, like, because one of the main things that I have PTSD from my accident. Right. And it's one of the worst PTSD you could imagine because it's like I woke up on the ground, conscious, on the floor, broken, right? I look up. I can see it.

It was like around 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening. I see a street lamp. you know and like i was just i was a practicing georgia southern baptist at the time but this was the day that i lost all religion right i basically saved my own life with my own intelligence i basically assessed my own situation by saying like one i don't feel any pain so i know i'm in shock right now number two i can't move so there are definitely things broken number three i'm getting very very tired i know i'm losing a lot of blood right right so i'm like okay i'm losing all i've seen the movies all the time they say don't fall asleep don't fall

sleep right i felt like i hadn't slept in months right and i have no interaction that's just me and my own consciousness and i'm looking up at this light and i'm like as soon as i don't see this light anymore i'm dead you know what i mean and i sat there from 15 minutes like literally slapping myself in my conscience to stay awake you know and it was the hardest battle I've ever had in my entire life those 15 minutes you know because it was just so much easier just to say I'm going to go sleep like I just was I felt like is so so now I equate losing consciousness with dying so mine's have like massive insomnia right you know because like sometimes i'm like i'll

feel like i'm i'll jerk back up you know what i mean because my body just doesn't want to let go you know so like i have like that's like the worst things like it's like freddie cooogers shit like you're scared to go you can't go to sleep you know like you know and so like yeah like that's and and that actually really only just popped up recently i wasn't i had an all always had that. It was after the pandemic. The pandemic fucked me up, man. I'm such like an extrovert that that isolation, it caused my brain to get all kinds of fuck them. And like trying to cure it is like even my therapist says like curing your PTSD. It's not these drugs that I prescribe you. It's you have to be able to do it yourself. You have to go into your brain and like cut

it off. But you tell me that. How the fuck do I do it? I mean, like, how do I tell myself, like, hey, you know, like, go to sleep. You're just going to sleep, man. There's no idea. Let's go to sleep. Yeah, I do that. But then my body just jerks up on his own. You know what I mean?

Like, I just, but that, that is like a horrible fucking thing to deal with on a daily basis. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, we could talk for hours, but I have, like, so many other hardships I could dump on you. But, like, we don't want this to be some super sad story. You know what I mean? I would have liked to have been able to plug in some of my songs. You want to hear some of it?

You want to just hear some of my app? I mean, we could actually, you want to play, you want to do, are they copywritten? Like, they're not. YouTube. Can we put them on like it, like we could end it with, I have on my YouTube channel, I haven't posted. Yeah, we can either drop the links in the description. We could play at the end of this video. Yeah.

Like we can end it with your music. That'd be awesome. Yeah. As long as we don't have, as long as it doesn't give us like a copyright thing or something. No, it's not because it's not kind of cover written yet. I mean, I have an English song, and I have a Vietnamese song, which is probably better to go with the English show today, right? Is it the same song in English? No, okay.

Two completely different songs. But this one is not like one of my gangster songs. This is more of like a party, go to the strip club. I have fun kind of song, right? It's like radio ready type song. Let's see if I don't know if one here. Dom, as I actually did another song for me, which is really cool. It's called The Book of Michael, right?

And the whole rap, you know anything about Jordans at all? About what? Jordans. Well, Jordans, they come in a lot of different colorways. Yeah. Right? Like the breads, the concours, this and that. So I did a rap that I hid over 45, 46 colorways within the song, but the whole song doesn't speak about

Michael Jordan doesn't speak about shoes has nothing to do with basketball you know what I mean but I just use those colorways literally like green glow is a color ways I'll be like green glow A TLA Indians never gave a damn kick a lunar lullaby or a bump in space jam space people people will pick up on it that but they realize you're not singing about those yeah just using the if they're fans and I think that would cause people to talk wow well how because my very last line of the rap is well how many did you catch hidden in my verse you know what i mean how how do you get like are is this all this released or is it just it's on youtube uh like i said this is like a jumping out party like literally i created the my youtube channel last night you know what i mean i posted

these two songs on it just so that they were places because i'm like if there's video people like me and they and they they want to see more i just want to have material out there you know so i kind like i kind of like steamrolled everything really quick you know what i mean yeah it's fine we're gonna um i mean we can we can um yeah i did you say the video i think is uh we'll play the creamy and it's like a still picture of you like chilling in the chair that it's actually cool the creamy we have a cover art for it and the cover art for my creamy it is it is a panda yes but if you know that's like the notorious b i.g's or if you remember a notorious bi g's an album where he's the baby sitting there that's like the very reminiscent of the notorious bi g is just uh the panda bear you know sitting

there um yeah this is better like right right you know uh so that would be like thumbnail for creamy um but then like i also have like a venomese song as well that i wrap um because i'm like why close out on the market that's something that i have I know I think it would be a lot easier to become a Vietnamese star right right be to be the next Drake you know what I mean great if I'm the next just to beaver Drake right but that's a star that's way out there and a lot harder to hit yeah than to become the next bin z who you've never heard of but he's probably the most popular Vietnamese rapper right but his bin z has like 1.7 million subscribers on youtube right you know I mean and he's just a vietnamese rapper that

nobody here even has heard of you know what i mean so like you know i i and i'm in the process i i got right all my songs so like i have a lot of songs and produces just getting into the studio and getting all this stuff and getting copyright and getting publishing and and and it's and it's just all slow moving when you know i have other people who have to play these roles like my manager and like you know my producers stuff like that it's getting time to kind of all squeeze it in because they they don't do all this stuff real full time either they they have their life and you know they do that as a side thing you know and right but yeah that's one thing like I said uh the school is another thing um I don't think that your show will help me

be able to plug in any any any help there but I mean yeah I mean I definitely uh I want to do a radically you know idea of like the school because the school I want to teach because in Vietnam you only have like this super uber rich and then you have the poor yeah there's no middle class like you go over the vietnam and you'll see like the streets are full scooters right and then there's a Lamborghini in the middle of them right you know what i mean like that's just how vietnam is you know so i would teach to the the elite over there and like i want to be able to have it because i do actually have like connections within a lot of the celebrities within that circle and it my school would have celebrity guest appearances things like

that that normal it's like imagine you go to a school where Justin Timberlade's school kids go and he shows up in class you know what I mean like that's kind of the direction I'm going but like I said that's just one basket it's just whatever happens to be able to take off it's where I'm going to go and also I'm thinking since this podcast thing and I actually have a lot of this equipment already too because I record right that I could leapfrog that into my own podcast right you know what I mean and It doesn't necessarily need to be about me, you know what I mean? But I am connected within Atlanta.

I could interview with a lot of people who are influential in Atlanta. Right. You know what I mean? Or, you know, just about different topics. You know, I, you know, I'm a talker. Right. So like, you know, I can be you. Right.

And it's hard and it's hard being you when you have somebody here that gives you yes, no answers, right? It's tough. Yeah. It's tough because it's like dragging teeth with, trying to like getting communication asking questions to get everyone's want to get one of those and that's the worst thing all is that like that like awkward silence yeah you know what I mean like uh you know sometimes you have to pull it out you have to pull it out and it's only certain people

who can do that right I can I can I can I can ask I've never been on a date where like I have like that awkward silence now there's some days that I have to work harder to get you to talk but most time people love to talk about themselves right or love to talk about anything that they're passionate about you know what i mean so i steer them in that direction um do you want me to do a sign a sign off or you're just going to end it with him playing the song well where where would you like people if they can contact you what their instagram yeah i have i have everything but my instagram is probably my most has the most traffic is my instagram but like i said everything i created like uh Twitter

I have Do you have a link tree? I don't have a link tree I should do that where it has everything all together I don't have that Tyler sit in me

all those we'll put it in the description yeah I would do a sign off just in case and I'll either do the sign off in the music or when he plays the music

play the music right after okay all right right well one I appreciate you coming oh no man thank you

yeah this is you get you're doing give you an opportunity bro like you know that's why Tyler was like I'm just like man I you're doing the favor right you know like I you are allowing your audience to be introduced to me no I yeah I I I I get but I still you still did come you still came out I appreciate it but the fun the funniest thing is the fruit thing oh dude we got to eat some of that yeah just because like let me tell I mean but anybody that's watch this long this is what happened so tyler is my booking agent and tyler was like listen pand is flying out

can you get him fruit and orange crushed sodas and i went i texted him back i said are you fucking with me are you serious did he really you know did he really asked for that and he's like he wants glad you now know that i'm not a fucking dude's right he's like i because oh the whole time the whole time I was like, did he really? And he's like, he goes, he's flying out. It's the least you can do. And I thought, nobody's ever asked me for some special treatment. And then I thought about it.

And I thought, wait a minute now. This guy's flying out. He's putting himself in a hotel. Like, if he wants some fucking fruit and a fucking and an orange crush, get him a fucking, like, who the fuck are you? Like, who the fuck is? You know, I'm thinking who this, he think he is? And then I'm thinking, no, wait, who do you think you are? This dude's coming out on his own dime.

it for you know for you know to do your your show like bro you need to do that so I'm so glad that you just did but then we've got that clear that but that's what but that's what's so that's what's so funny about it is that you know so here what I'm just telling this like the audience I know you were here but the whole thing is then when you came in you're like what's so funny is I went to my my wife and I was like listen I texted her I said okay listen I said can you pick up and I explained it to her and she was like what the fuck yeah and I said because this is what the guy wants and she's like uh okay and then when she came home we look up your I go did I said we looked up your Instagram I said but this is him and she's like he looks like a guy that

might might want some special stuff and we're looking through and I'm like look at this like look at this outfit he likes he's got a lot of outfits like none of these are the same outfit like we're looking through the hole there I'm like every one of these is and she's like that might be the same pair of pants yeah you know what I'm saying she's joking she actually get it to get out on the nose yeah one thing I don't fend on our pants because nobody gives a fuck where your pants came wrong my outfit this is Versace this is Alexana McQueen my my joggers are literally like 1999 on it but then when you walked in the door I was like bro did you really ask for this and you were like fuck no fuck no what so this is just Tyler

this all Tyler row I don't know what he's doing I thought you were just being generous like wow he really looks after his guess like that I was like seriously I was like okay I guess you know no but you did but he did it he did drink the orange crush I did and I am going to eat some fruit yeah that's fine but I felt much better when you were like what I was like, I was like, okay, good. This is not a thing. I'll thank God. The guy yesterday was like, he's like, I can't see you.

This guy tomorrow's going to be a problem. Yeah. Oh my God. Because I told the guy yesterday, I said, listen to this. This is what I said, God, he paid me so horribly, bro. Yeah, well, I mean, I was, this guy's going to be a problem. I did add. I did ask that like, you know, I smoke a lot of me.

Right. Right. So I was like, is that cool? No. Okay. And I was like, okay. That was the only thing. What?

that it was that out that you just gonna just like but if you had you said hey can we stop and went and that'd be fine okay yeah no no yeah yeah but that was that was the only thing that i said like i had nothing and then i was like i smoke cigarettes too so like if these are gonna be long i'd like to take a break to smoke a cigarette here and there but this blew by fucking fruit no or dude if you gave a tap water i would have yeah like seriously like no it's funny that is this pilot that is totally 100% Tyler because it actually caught me off guard when he takes the me like do you want like sparkling water or uh spring water and I'm like dude I don't care if it's tap like you what he definitely I he had me going like this guy's a diva

and like he was like literally like what fruit specifically do you like and I'm like I like watermelon I thought it was his question like I like strawberries like if you're gonna ask me what I like I'll tell you what I like but I'm not like I did not I'm not demanding any of that I'm gonna have to have a talk with Tyler oh yeah that's totally that's all I am I'll show you the I'll show you I that has nothing to do with me at all Creamy is that look all about that flex eat me like a snack all these holes one next sitting on my throne flashing like a gang roly on the wrist I stopped panda Brin' red and green

Yeah, you know it's Gucci Bitches be so moist dripping from the Gucci Blind in diamonds mixed in the bands Dollars all around me everywhere I stand Twerking on the stage Damn I love them strippers Just might throw a rack That's how panda tips her

Cash in the bagger Blue Levit a tonne Well it's never drop Goes on and on Love the club with green It's a monsoon season Keep throwing dollars Never need a reason.

Creamy, Creamy, Creamy. Damned up in the trendin. I keep spending spending. All your trends are abandoned. Brand new Lambo, got two or three. Take off on them haters. They ain't catching me. Bad, bad, bad, bear.

You can't help us stare. Jay's on Creamy. Mine's ain't Ikea. Rise up ATL. You can get a fake. Ballin like I'm tray. Let me get a pick. Creamy on the carpet, red.

Just like a star. Ain't about the fame, I ain't scared of all. Lip it, creamy, creamy, whipped it, creamy, outside dreamy, inside cream.