Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Exposing Big Herc | My Reaction...

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Exposing Big Herc | My Reaction...

So really, at the end of the day, you have no friends. You're only out for yourself. You have no loyalty. Hey, this is Matt Cox and Zach. And what we're going to do today is we're going to go over something. So we're going to go over. Okay, so let me set it up. I did a big herk interview with a guy named Big Herk,

which I'm assuming is Big Herk like Hercules. Yeah, Big Hercules. Okay. So. Hercules. So I did an, uh, uh, uh, I was interviewed, I went out to LA and I was interviewed by Big Herc on a TV, on a YouTube channel called Fresh Out. And Fresh Out is Big Herc's channel where Big Herc interviews other criminals because he is trying to,

what he says is that he's trying to let kids know, I know, kids know not to get into crime. we have a conversation about this where I'm like okay you're telling kids this like you're telling kids like don't commit crime but if you do don't cooperate with the authorities like don't cooperate with law enforcement so anyway yeah I know it's completely fucked it's completely fucked up so the point is is that I've been like I did that thing it was it was completely fucking whacked like I got out there and it was just like when he lost so here's what happened when I contacted him I contact Big Herk and I say listen or I say, listen, do you know my story? And it goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've checked you out. And I checked you out on that show concrete. And I checked you out on a couple of them. I watched your stuff. So I know your story.

You know my story. Then you know I cooperated. So I thought, okay, cool. No problem. Like, I'm not your normal guy that you interview. He's, nah, nah, it's good. It's good. I've had some guys, white-collar guys.

It's good. I said, okay. So I fly out to L.A. and I do his podcast. Everything's fine. We're going fine. I'm telling him the story. This is what happened.

This and this and this. And then I get caught. I said, I get caught. And of course, my, I said, of course, you know, my lawyer immediately says, look, you know, you need to cooperate. And I remember, and when I said it, he goes like this. Like, he like hissed. Like, and I remember thinking, oh, no. No.

You didn't watch my story. like oh and I was like now I can twist at this point I can twist it like I could just say yeah you know so she was saying that and then I ended up taking a plea and like you know I could have you know I got 26 years and then I filed two 2255 and I got this much time knocked off and I could have done all that because that's what most of the guys on his channel do because he'll interview he'll interview these guys that got caught with like five you know five kilos of heroin it's like okay, that's a life sentence. Like you've already said you've been to jail like three times.

You just got caught with five kilos of heroin. That's a life sentence. Yeah, I see in the row. Right. And then the guy will say, yeah, you know, but I got a really good lawyer. And I ended up with 10 years. And it's like, no, you didn't. There's no way your good lawyer got you 10 years without cooperation.

But he doesn't ever look into that. Like he doesn't want to know about that. He wants to believe that these guys are stand-up guys. And his big thing on his channel is, I don't have snitches on my channel. That's what he tells everybody. I won't interview a snitch. Well, he doesn't interview them about snitching.

It's basically saying, like, don't talk about snitching. Right. You know, he has actors. He put it come on to perpetrate as thugs and down and hard and straight. But really, they're untold, and come on. Yeah. So, and here's the thing about him. He robbed a bank, my understanding, and I don't know,

exact story but I think he robbed the bank with two other guys and so they're in the bank they've got guns they're sticking guns in people's faces they're telling them to get on the ground they're screaming they're cursing they're terrifying all these normal decent citizens then when the cops show up they just bolt they run he gets caught running down an alleyway and the other two guys get caught he goes to jail he doesn't tell him nothing he's like i don't he doesn't say anything when he eventually gets his his, he eventually gets his discovery, he finds out the other two guys have already cooperated.

Like they've always told on him. And he's furious and he takes a plea deal for like 10 years and he goes to jail and I think he does like seven or eight years. And his whole thing is to me was I never told on nobody and snitches and this and that and that ain't the code. And I end up telling him like, what code? There's no fucking code. Like what are you talking about?

So this is where at this point he and I start arguing. So at this, so I'm going to, we're going to start here because it's the last part of the thing. It's part three. It's 45 minutes long. So, um, at some point as he realizes that I'm telling him, I cooperated, what he does is he literally, they have to change the cards on the cameras. So he gets up off the couch and starts pacing the room. Like he's so furious.

Now this is me, Big Herk, and his camera. in a hotel room in downtown L.A. His cameraman is covered in tats and is a big guy. He's been to prison a couple times. Big Herc has been in prison. These are two big guys that are thuggish. And he's acting, like the cameraman's like trying to calm him down. It's not like a big discussion, but he's like, hey, hey, like I can see him like calm down.

He's shaking his head and he's all upset. And he's like, so you don't get that on the thing. You don't get how aggravated he was. So I'm trying to keep it be cool and not, but I'm thinking, because here's the problem with guys that aren't that bright. Their go-to move is violence. So the idea is, I say the wrong thing here. This guy could swing on me.

And he doesn't seem like that on the couch. If you were sitting on the couch with the guy and you say it's all the way the guy's acting, you'd be like, oh, whoa, whoa, this could be, this could be, this could go back. This could go bad. Right. He had just gotten up. They changed the cards, sat down, and we had to continue the interview at this point. And so this is why I basically, at this point, I say, I think the last question was.

All right. So. I think the last question was basically that you get caught and then, you know, you go out and you do a bunch of a bunch of crime or something, and you get caught and then you get caught and then you tell on everybody to try and get out of it. That was basically, I think, you're, yeah, yeah. I mean, just advice of he, a lot of things. people, especially today, man. I mean, there's no, people for there's no consequence. There's always a way out.

And if you're reaping the benefits of something, I mean, it's like you have to realize, and what I try to stress to people when I tell my story is that it wasn't the bank robbery, it was the mentality I have. So if I were to try to tell a young person, what would kind of, you know, dissuade them from taking the path I did, what other options?

You know, you gotta somehow put it in the sense that, man, at the end of the day, you have to own up to all this stuff. You can't just keep, you know, saying that, hey, I can always get out of it and throw 10 other people under the bus or whatever the case may be, because you're the one who made that choice to live up and enjoy whatever it is you were doing and take part of that. So I'm saying, like, advice-wise, how would you explain that

and give an opportunity, would you say that, hey, you know what? Sorry. Okay. Well, yeah, I want to. interject there because yeah go ahead oh because the the nature of the game now right is that just kind of like what you're deciding so you might face the consequence but now you just calculate in the snitching like okay so I do that right and even if we get away with it you could actually find out or you get in trouble and actually resort back and tell them

that I was involved. So he's acting like the consequences are gone because someone's cooperating when really like any semi-smart person would know that if you're in the game, the snitch possibility is super high. Right. You know, so you'd have to be,

see, he's trying to play as if, well, only if you take consequences for your action, you know, is that you're really standing up. But you can take consequences and get away with it with dealing with the snitch because we could do something get away with it

right? And then I'm thinking to myself a hold on a second I should have never even done that because he might tell or he might do something completely different. You feel what I'm saying?

In my story I had a person that wrote 87 checks to Walmart. Right. Something completely different and they told on me to get a reward.

You follow what I'm saying? So if I, I had been thinking ahead, I probably wouldn't have done what I did or I wouldn't have, you know what I'm saying, teamed up with them, that possibility is still there. The consequences is still there. What kills me about what he's saying is he's saying, you know, you benefited from this life. Right. And you have to take the consequences for that benefit. Okay. That's still there. Well, they have to take the consequences for theirs too. So if you're saying, well, they benefited from it. Right. And then they got told on. Right. Just like I got told on, just like you got

told on. Yeah, it rolls backward. Nothing's changed. He's just holding a moral ground. He's not even making a point. He's not making a point. And on top of that, there's no moral ground. You're a fucking bank robber. You're fucking sticking guns in people's faces. So here's the whole thing. Like, he's sticking guns in people's faces. He's robbing him, tell him to get on the ground. You know, he told me, he said, oh, he's done home invasions. He's done all kinds of shit. So he's done all and not gotten caught for it. So he's done all kinds of stuff. He's terrorized people. And And he's saying, but I changed my mentality. No, you didn't.

Because if you change your mentality, you would then say, hey, I need to take responsibility for all this. He's saying, do those things, don't take responsibility for it, and don't allow anybody else to hold me accountable for the things that I've done. Right, right. What he's saying is chaos. He's saying the world should be chaos. But the problem is he doesn't really know what he's saying.

He doesn't understand it. It's not making sense. Right. Well, he hangs out with other thugs or other wannabe thugs that think, all they think is, uh, uh, don't snitch. Okay, yeah, but you understand in this situation, no, uh, uh, don't snitch. So this is, it's funny because it gets worse and worse. He's never seen the first 48.

No. And in the day, there's certain things you have to own up to. I mean, I think that I, I think I owned up. Look, the difference is owning up to it, in my opinion, owning up to it. and saying nothing and not cooperating with the authorities to clear their case and make sure that everyone's brought to justice. You know, I think that's two different things. I know what I did.

I absolutely know what I did. I'm more than willing to say this is exactly what I did. You know, and how it affected people, just like, you know, we were talking. So, so saying, he doesn't want to let me make a point. But I'm saying as far as advice, but like you're saying brought to justice, how if you got caught and this guy's over here still getting paper and but he you maybe did a business with him but you don't actually he's not actually the one who got caught but he's enjoying his life and it hasn't done to do with you now by you tell on him is that being brought to justice

because who's just a hypothetical person i'm talking about like a third person if you were telling somebody else on the street and they got caught and you're saying you know to own up to it and bring somebody to justice but this person over here who's a neighbor maybe for instance you you know they might have dissed but it's totally unrelated to what you got going if you tell on them is that is that considered being brought to justice and for your benefit because it helps you get a downward departure well there's i i don't see that there's any reason for me not to get a downward departure since the person's the person's getting in trouble anyway i think he didn't get in trouble though i'm saying hypothetically if that person didn't get in trouble he's enjoying

their life and you go and decide to throw them into your mix now they're under investigation when they weren't even on the radar. He's committing crimes. Fuck him. So you're saying someone is committing a crime. A crime doesn't matter. It could be everybody. Somebody can be committed a crime.

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. It does matter. They're committing a fucking crime. He's argumentative. He wants to argue.

He wants to argue the point so that he's right. But the truth is the guy's committing a crime. Right. He's a fucking scumbag. Fuck all. Hold on. Sorry, I'm going to put this on. Even when I put this on fucking silent,

it still fucking rings through the computer. So it doesn't matter. You have that set up like that. Yeah, I can't un-set it up. So anyway, the point is that, the point is, is this guy's committing a crime. Correct. And I cooperate against him so I can get off the time.

I don't fucking owe that guy nothing. Fuck him. He's committing a crime. If he don't want to fucking be subject to possibly being fucking snitched on, then don't commit a fucking crime. So you're actually doing, so go back to this first point, you're actually doing more to let people know they shouldn't be committing crime because you're like, hey, if I'm going to commit a crime, I could get in trouble for it. So you're making that possibility even greater. So his first point was we need to take accountability for our actions, right?

If we get caught. Right. If you don't, then you don't take accountability. Right. So anybody that's thinking about committing a crime, his point is if you get caught. caught, you got to take accountability. No matter what it takes for you to get caught. Not everyone's going to get caught accidentally. It might be a grandmother watching through her window and call the police on you. You know what I'm saying? Right. Whatever you consider snitching.

So you're making the possibility of him getting caught greater, which means that he needs to think longer and harder about what he's doing to stop committing. So each of his point is going to correct another point. He's not going to have anything valid. And his whole, you know, the whole thing with all these guys is don't ever tell on anybody don't ever cooperate don't ever this don't don't have that the bottom line is so that would be a world of chaos that's when grandma never fucking tells or the old woman next door never fucking calls the police so nobody ever tells on anything that would be that would be complete anarchy yes so hold on here let's keep going because the police couldn't track everybody down right but the police have to have people

to cooperate of course in a 90 it's like 99% of all cases are are solved as a result of cooperation. So what he's saying is 99% of all the cases out there shouldn't be brought to justice. So that means people are just walking around with AK-47s fucking robbing each other and shooting each other. It's complete fucking chaos. Like that world, the thing about that world that he's talking about, he can't survive in. He gets shot right away. Yes. He has nothing to do with you. You got caught. Right. He's living his life. Now, whether he's hustling or not, you might have had assumption but you now point the finger on him because maybe at a dinner a dinner engagement he mentioned something and you're like fuck I'm in a hot position so you know

let me tell on old Ted here our Ted member told me that one time he did this and that would you say that that's justified and would you tell the person on the street to tell on Ted even though Ted didn't get caught you did I mean I know the answer that you want and I know the position I've been in you're I know. Fuck, Ted. Bro, I got 26 years for filling out some paperwork. I don't give a fuck about Ted.

Ted will go to fuck about me. Then I'm a scumbag. I'm a scumbag. I'm a scumbag. I don't give a fuck. Yeah. I'm not fucking doing all my fucking... So basically, you're saying that nobody can really be your friend at the end of the day

because you would be a piece of shit to that person. You're saying that. Because Tim was a good dude. You ate at his house and kids playing with your kid. You're saying that you would tell on Ted. Ted's committing fucking crimes. Ted's committing. a scumbag. Ted's not a good dude.

You're not a good dude. I mean, what the... It's like the guy that goes in the bank and robs the fucking bank and he duct type somebody up and he's got people crying and pissing in their fucking pants and he walks out there and then somebody tells on him, he's like, I'm a good dude. Really? Ask your fucking victims.

Yeah. If you're a good dude. So really, at the end of the day, you have no friends. You're only out for yourself. You have no loyalty. You get caught. Yeah, because you're saying Ted, he would live in his life. You guys used to go to pool parties But you would throw him under the bus

Because you got caught up and Ted didn't get caught Because he wasn't involved in your thing You're saying nobody can really be your friend then Because at the end of the day it's all about you You would throw anybody under the bus to save your ass Anybody he jumped straight to anybody Right like it's always it's always completely extreme It could be your mom it could be your sister if you could get out you said you were throw Ted

He was cool with you you guys hung out together This is a horrible a horrible no-win scenario No, because I'm just, if that's your honest answer, you're letting everybody know that you would throw anybody under the bus for your save your own ass. That means you can never be a true to your, to anybody outside of yourself because if it came down to it, you would throw that motherfucker under the bus. This is a horrible interview, bro. That's it. Why did you say that? It's a horrible interview because he gave you an extreme question. He gave me a, he gave me a question that the, there's only one answer to it.

Right. Well, what he's saying is he's saying, he's saying. instead of saying look there's a criminal you might tell on suddenly he's like you would tell on anybody for anything yeah mom's sister brother so like all right okay so he's a horrible interviewer i agree right and that's a horrible question you know but that that's an extreme question and he's desperate right now it keep mind in his mind i've been preaching to all of my fans i would never interview a snitch and now he's stuck in a fucking hotel room like trust me if it weren't for a his cameraman, he'd have bolted. Like he was like, I know, in his mind, he's thinking, I've been

preaching that I won't interview a snitch. Even though I can tell you right now, he's interviewed tons of guys that fucking cooperated. He just doesn't want to know. He doesn't, but he doesn't know that. Or he doesn't, he's blind to it because he doesn't understand the sentencing guidelines. He doesn't understand what happened. We doesn't want to understand. So he lives in a fantasy world. Right. So if you're, because you got to understand. Listen, what he's saying is relative. Like, I'm sure if it came down to like certain crimes. he'd tell him a minute like certain like sexual or molestation crime was a if tim if his next door neighbor was was a was a a fucking pedophile he'd tell him in a heartbeat here's the thing and

when you when you pose that kind of question to guys like this they're always like oh i i i fucking go kill him really you'd go kill a pedophile yeah i would okay then how come you there's a list of addresses in every state of where the pedophiles lived how many of you killed uh uh well uh Shut up. You don't fucking, you're fucking lying. You don't know. You're bullshit and you're telling, that's like trying to impress your stupid fucking friends. Don't fucking bullshit me.

The other thing is this is that, so you tell on that guy, so if your son got caught in a car, your son's driving around with his buddies in a car, and he's sold a little bit of pot before or some Coke or something, you don't know about it, but he's sold a little here, little there. One of his, they get pulled over and there's half a kilo in the back. It's not your sons. But the other guys all say it's Jimmy's car. It's his dope, not mine.

And now your son is looking at a leader organizer role. And your son's going to get 15 years unless he cooperates. And all the other guys are getting Rule 35s. Right. I'm sorry, 5K1s. And they're all going to get two years apiece because they're all pointing at your son. The detective says, the detective says, to your son, we know that it was really

Bobby's dope. Right. But you're not cooperating. You're going to take the 15 year charge. Does Big Herk say, oh, you know, you got to be a stand-up guy. Do the 15, man. Do the 15.

But, or does he say, tell the detective that you're not the leader organizer, that it was your buddy's fucking dope. And you, and you didn't have anything to do with the dope in the fucking trunk. It was in his bag. It wasn't your bag. You know, cooperate.

Or does he say, do the 15? I'll bet you he says, cooperate. Amen. But, you know, you know, because here's the thing. Because all good dads tell their sons to do 15 years, right? You're a good dad. You're a good dude. Yeah, no, no.

Come on, bro. You're living in a fucking fantasy world. He's living in a fantasy world. Well, he's got to impress all of his, he has to impress his fans. He has to impress his fans. That's how he's made. Because listen, that's not. pressing his fans. If this guy,

by the way, if this guy doesn't have YouTube, he's a bricklayer somewhere. Like that's it. Like you had, you stumbled on YouTube. It was that or you're laying fucking concrete or drywall for a living because this guy can't work customer service.

I mean, I mean, I get out of my mind. He's really upset about it. No, I'm not getting upset. I'm just asking you an honest question Oh, he's definitely getting upset. He was walking around pacing like a fucking mad bull before this fucking like he's like, no, not getting upset the fuck bro this dude don't want to be sitting on the couch he's literally trying knock the fucking swing on me honest question because you i'm just saying i'm

asking i'm asking for advice to people out here but you're saying if this ted is committing a crime i would say don't commit a crime it doesn't look at he's hushed whatever but you happen to hear about it so if you have you even hear her inclination you would be like well i remember one time ted told me you would do that you i don't understand your your whole story your whole It's a hypothetical situation back the end of the day. And he's not letting me answer. Just be honest with the camera. You said that you would tell him.

I just said that. You would tell on Ted. I mean, I probably would. Yeah, I'd probably love Ted. So you would tell the people on the street if they get in a horrible, if they get in a situation. I think most of them are. I think if you look at the statistics that, that 80, I think it's 80. I actually had the, the sentence, the federal sentencing guidelines statistics.

See, he don't want to hear, he didn't want to hear that. I'm going to say, move him forward. He doesn't want to hear the truth. he wants to hear what he wants to hear. He doesn't want to hear the actual reality of it. No.

He wants to hear something that's the fantasy that there's some kind of fucking code. You would tell people do what you have to do to get out of the situation at the end of the day.

That's what you would tell them rather than say, you know what? Eat your medicine. You know what I mean? You got caught up. You would just say, man, throw whoever you have to

under the bus to get out. You know that the feds will give you 50 years and not even things. twice. You're saying take the 50 years. I'm saying the bottom line. You don't know this guy has nothing to do with your case. You're the one who got caught. He's a criminal. He's committing crimes.

So you're now, you're the police now. You become a police from a criminal from you hustling. Yeah. Doing what you're doing. They do it all the time. I'm not saying right now because you already went through your time. I'm saying to like say we're talking to this guy from him hustling, getting him, doing whatever he's doing.

This guy, he just happened in passing, but now he's going to try to throw this guy to the bus because his case was unrelated to what this guy's life is. He should go in to start pointing a finger at any and everybody he thinks that he may be ever seen at a Chinese restaurant that he thought was selling drugs. A Chinese restaurant. Just start telling it, get out. I mean, honestly, I would, I don't know exactly what the situation is. You're telling me what the situation is. I'm telling you what my basic answer is.

Given that very narrow situation where I don't see that you've got a choice, I think mostly what happens and that, what is it, 80-something, 80% of drug dealers. I know guys who have a license who got part of it. They did time, but they didn't tell on Obama. I know guys that got life sentence and that Obama pardoned them. You had no few, too. Yeah, and listen, and they didn't either. And they got life sentences and just took it. Don't call me.

Call you back. I know a guy that got a life sentence did like 10 years in the pen before they, Obama cut his sentence and he had five more years to go. And while he was there, the wife left him, which he didn't want to tell him, by the way. That's the person he didn't want to tell on. They said, no, you're going to cooperate against your wife. Didn't tell on her. Went to prison. That guy's name is led for him.

The guy I'm talking about. The guy I'm talking about. His best friend stops talking about also involved in his meth conspiracy. All the people that were involved in the meth conspiracy that he wouldn't tell on and he was going to get a life sentence saying God Obama came and cut his sentence. But the fact is he didn't cooperate in any of those people and he got a life sentence. He would have just died in prison. How many people do you know that just died in prison? They didn't cooperate because they thought these are the people that I love and I care about.

But the truth is when they went to prison, those people. I didn't get a visit in prison. Don't mean that I got to sit around and start getting mad at everybody else from me. I love that you didn't get a visit in prison. Right. I mean, no offense, bro, but the sex offenders get fucking visits in prison. Like, if you don't get a fucking visit in prison, like, whoa, bro, what you like? You've crossed, you've crossed everybody in your path.

So, look, I went to a penitentiary, and there was tons of cooperation going on. In the pen. In the pen. Right. In the pen. And so, like, he's not, okay. He's creating a fantasy situation where he has to continue to alter it to try to make that the people, like you're, he wants to make you feel like you're telling on innocent

people. Right, right. And not that you're doing what they absolutely demand. Your lawyer demands it. The police demand it. Everybody's doing it. And they give you a benefit for it. Right.

So he's like, I'm going to pretend all those things aren't in the view. Your wife is begging you to fucking cooperate. Your kids are saying, I'm going to. You know, like you're, so your two kids are now going to grow up. Somebody, your wife's going to divorce you. She's going to marry somebody else. That new guy's going to come in. He's going to raise your fucking kids.

Yes. And guess what? You're going around telling people, I'm a good guy. I'm a good guy. I don't take care of my children. I don't fucking take care of my wife. Some other guys fucking bang my, I don't do all the things I can do to help myself. I don't bring this other fucking scumbag to justice.

Right. I don't do any of those things. because you saw the Godfather movie. You think that there's really the Godfather. And by the way, the Godfather movie, they all cooperate. So you think that there's a code that doesn't exist that means you have to sacrifice your children, your fucking wife, like everybody,

so that you can be a stand-up guy among a bunch of fucking scumbags so that a bunch of scumbags can say, that's a stand-up, dude. Fucking delusion. You're living a lie, bro. My action, and I'm not saying being in a position, you got to do what you feel, but at the end of the day, all I'm saying is that when you, you know, people who are out there, and this is my advice to all you guys out there.

If you're out there, you're doing shit, you're thinking you're living a good life, you know, look, man, don't put yourself in a position where you're going to have your back against the wall like that. Obviously, listen, there's always different perspectives. I understand your perspective. I understand what you're saying. And I understand coming from your perspective, I see what you're saying, okay? You're saying basically take your lumps. Take it just, you did the crime, do the time, that whole thing, okay?

You're going to do time. Based on the prisons that I've been in and the people that I've had to deal with, I had no friends. And being in the prisons that I've been in, from the medium to all the lows, none of those guys had friends. Everybody was ditching them left and right. Everybody was turning on it. Everybody was cutting each other's throats. So do I want to do 26? years when I know everybody's cut my throat that I know and everybody's cutting each other's

throat left and right. And do I want to get five years knocked off my sentence for cutting a guy's throat that's already cooperating against multiple people? I mean, the truth is in that situation, yes. The thing is about that situation, I didn't call my attorney right away. I remember thinking, they're not going to give anything and that's not a big deal and it doesn't really matter. I only got a few, I only got seven or eight more years left, eh, eight more years left, whatever. So I didn't say anything right away. I just happened to mention to it and it all kind of fell in place. The point is, is that, you know, you can come up with whatever scenario you want, but I'll tell you, and I'll give you an example. I got locked up in the shoe one time.

You know, you end up in the shoe for fucking nothing. I've been locked up in the shoe three or four times and I didn't do anything. Um, the issue one time in the medium. In the medium with another guy, I remember the guy's name was Griffin. He'd just done like five or ten years of the pen he'd come from the pen and he was in the pen and he'd come to the medium and we ended up in the shoe together so we're sitting there talking remember his last name was griffin so we're talking and he's on the phone every other day talking to his son who's growing up without him his son's fucking up his son son was a big time was a wrestler but he'd been suspended by for like the next two matches because he got into a fight and this and that he's on the phone trying

to raise his son from prison and he's talking to the mother and they're back and forth and he starts telling me what's going on with the son and this and that he's like yeah and he's telling me yeah i got that he got whatever he got he got 20 years or something i forget but he'd done like 10 and his the kid the kid's mother who's with another guy already the kid's mother is telling him i know about this and this and this i can call the DEA and i can do this and this and they'll cut your sentence you know third party rule 35 so she's telling him this and he's like he's like man she she's saying this and I told her not to do that I told her not to do that so he's going on and on not to do that and I said and I went I said why what does it matter he goes what do you mean

I said well you already told me like all the guys in your case that you didn't you didn't tell on they've all been busted they all told on you when they got busted they tried to get you into another indictment you ended up doing your time you ended up doing this you know that And he's like, right, I said, you tell me, I said, your son right now, when he's with all his buddies, he's looking up in the stands, and all of his buddies' dads are there. Do you think when they say, yeah, there's my dad, there's my mom, there's my dad. Do you think that when they say that to him, that he looks in me, goes, yeah, well, my dad's in federal prison, but he's a stand-up guy. Or do you think he'd rather just say, yeah, my dad's right there? That he's a rat.

My buddy's there. That's different. I know the guys I did time with, the guy that I did time with, I know some hitters. and to this day we're still loyal to each other man nobody would ever probably who would go right now

and lay down with me but that's a different I'm not talking about but I'm not he's see how he doesn't even I'm not talking about your fucking homeboys I'm talking about

your fucking kids you're putting your fucking home boys you're putting your fucking homeboys over your fucking kid I mean but I'm a good guy I'm a good guy he keeps

he was like the whole thing with him was I'm a good guy guy you're not a good guy you just fucking said you want someone else raising your fucking kid you know what i mean and and and like it you can't there's no the mentality is is to the mentality for him really is keep my youtube subscribers that's really what he's thinking well i mean if they're delusional in that sense and they're delusional look just like you're you're honestly listening a lot of the guys that are on your channel those guys are the exception

you know they're the exception so I'm actually trying to help him here because the truth is they're not the exception like like these guys that are on his channel they've all cooperated oh okay you talk so why are you helping him you're trying to ease him down at this point I mean at this point

I'm just salvage the interview salvage the interview and get out of here I just want to go home like I like I'm not look I've had these arguments with guys before like if I thought there was a good chance like I knew 100% there's no way this fucking guy

will will fucking swing on me or fucking whatever because he's he's fucking you don't understand like you don't realize how angry he is like if I thought for sure there's no way this gets violent I'd have gone in hard on him like I never said he you're a fuck you're a fucking idiot like are you out of your fucking like I never fucking said I never started in with like so you're telling me

you're fucking I didn't give him the scenario of like your son or your son getting caught in a car or your son this or the sex offender or I didn't do anything I didn't pay him in the same corners that he was trying to paint me in because it's his show and I'm still wondering is he even going to play this fucking interview because here's the thing like I don't he's thinking he might not play the interview but the truth because the truth is that I'm like I flew out the fucking LA for this interview like and he I know in his mind he doesn't he probably would if he had said he was a snitch he wouldn't want anybody to know that right I don't give a I don't give a I don't give a fuck you don't give a I don't give a I don't give a fuck if anybody knows I'm a fucking snitch. Fuck you. You got a problem with it.

Go fuck yourself. You know? What about your victims? Fuck that shit. These fucking guys are fucking delusional. Right. They're fucking, you know, and this guy, like, you're pretending. If this motherfucker got a fucking 20 year bid right now at his age and knew he was dying

in prison, he'd fucking rat out everybody he knows. Amen. Because the fact of the matter, look, what is it? It's like 86 or 87% of drug dealers. Like 90, something. something percent of, of a white collar criminals cooperate. I mean, it keeps getting higher and higher on cooperation. And you're, like you said, in the pen, how much time did you do in the pin?

Six years. Six years. He did fucking seven. So six years legal work. And you know all those motherfuckers are closed. Oh, yes. I saw that left and right day and night. Which means if you're not and you're doing all your time, then you're just a fucking idiot.

Listen, they were running to do that, setting each other up, just like. they were at the medium it was it was horrendous you know what's funny about him like he just didn't have the opportunity like here's the thing how many you know how many guys i saw their paperwork where this is what happened they're running around the compound calling everybody a snitch and then you get their paperwork and listen i can tell you i know one guy right now i wrote his fucking story like i didn't put it in there so he does his whole story and when i get all of his fucking his paperwork in i find out he tried to cooperate He met multiple times with the fucking FBI

and tried to cooperate and everything But nothing happened Like they didn't they didn't follow through It never led to an arrest So instead of him being humble and saying You know what I tried So I'm not gonna fucking go around calling everybody a snitch No, you did snitch

You didn't get a result from it So instead of you saying fuck it I'm not gonna be a hypocrite No he goes around the whole time That fucking guy over there's a snitch that fucking snitch motherfucker that dude's a fucking snitch well I just got your fucking paperwork

and you're a snitch too you know what I'm saying so well and usually the ones that are snitch are the loudest about snitching I freaking hate snitches because they don't want

they're deflecting where they want the attention so they want you to be identified as hey that guy hate snitches right but he's a complete snitch is this guy he has nobody

big herk got caught his other two buddies snitched on him first he has no one to snitch on So had you gone to trial For all we know You to fucking rat it out your buddies Like you don't have an option to snitch

So what do you do? You run around calling everybody a snitch He hides it I'm telling you it's it's ridiculous He tried to hide He hides that junk That is that is the most popular thing going That's like playing spades

Without an ace of spade You're putting yourself At a complete disadvantage What's the first thing they tell you Do you want to help yourself They're basically saying do you want to get out of this? Help yourself.

Your friends are helping themselves. Right. So then when your friends and all your buddy, your lay down buddies go home and you're still in the pen or you're still locked up and they're not sending you money, they're not coming to visit you, then what the hell is it all for? Right, right.

What the hell is it all for? So I remember there were a couple guys in the medium that brought me their paperwork. They brought me their PSIs and asked me to change it because they'd cooperated. You know, the moment I changed that fucking shit for them, like, yeah, bro, it's like, The Mexicans are giving you a fucking hard time. They're like, yeah, man, I can't show my paperwork.

I'm scared. I'm worried. I'm afraid. I go and I change it. Do you remember the one kid's kids? Yes. I changed this guy, Colby, I changed this kid's fucking paperwork. So I change this paperwork. Give it to him. Tell him, wait for them to ask you for it again.

And then show it to him. Tell them, you don't want to be showing it to everybody. Like act offended that you even have to show it. Show it to one or two guys. And that guy will be the, he'll go around and tell everybody, you're a fucking good guy. He's like, okay, cool, cool, cool. So I show it to him.

About two weeks later, I'm walking into the unit and he's standing there with a couple of the other Mexican guys after he's shown him their paperwork and they know he's a solid guy. I walk by him and I hear him saying, yeah, well, that motherfucker's got

about a week to get his fucking paperwork because I don't trust that fucking dude. I think he fucking might have told him. And I looked over at him and he looked up at me and he went and he just looked at the fucking ground. And I thought, that fucking you piece of shit.

That's how they all are. so that's what I'm saying you're arguing with a outdated mentality you're arguing with somebody that's not dealing with reality of what's going on because so many people tell but he's got all of his fans convinced that like yeah and he's got them convinced that all these guys come on his channel well good for them I mean I mean that's what they're that's what they're for in every minute hold on here most people are not stand-up guys most of the statistics alone that's why I said at the end of the day the advice is don't get yourself involved if you're thinking that you're gonna now you're making a think he wins

you flip the coin yeah I try to I think it goes bad again we've been in so much shit he never told on me this dude man never told on me man right to the day if I call him he'll come out here right now and be out here never told never did anything we've done some crazy shit yeah but he hadn't told on you yet to put into perspective to for them to listen to your interview at the end of the day like you said your best friend told on you so there's no there's no nothing you have no best friend there is nobody that really there's nothing i don't have honestly i don't think i have any friends at all that wouldn't tell on me if something went down that's horrible not one this is this is the best thing you could take from this interview you guys

one of the one of the top things is you sold out yeah i'm saying a lot of that what you The best thing you take from this interview is keep your blinders on. Stay ignorant. Stay ignorant. They're getting set up. They're setting themselves up because of society wanting to live out of lifestyle. But like you said, look how quick. Like you said, all the place you went to, everybody was, nobody cared, everybody's off of themselves.

Absolutely. Listen, and as far as you talking about when we were talking about early, about money and stuff, is that like, All the money that I ever got, and I've had several million dollars in the bank. The FBI said I bought and sold over 109 houses in Ewar City. And I've had millions, and I've had great cars, and I've had great houses, and I've done all that. Always riddled with anxiety, always constantly concerned about what's happening and who's doing this and who's doing that, always worried, always sick to my stomach, always just, it's just a bad situation. went to prison

dropped all that stuff started writing starting doing something that I really enjoyed as opposed to real estate which I liked but I liked it because there was a lot of money involved and started writing and got out and

like I'm trying to go ahead let's move away from that let's talk about and I think he goes back to it perfectly happy. Does he go back to it? Feel great. Don't lie about anything anymore I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to come here and pretend to be something I'm not or skate over this or do a quick yeah yeah I went to prison got a little bit of time then I filed a couple 2255 got my sentence reduced got 12 years knocked off

and then I started doing that I'm not going to do that didn't think this interview was going to go this way I thought we were going to talk about me writing about my stories about what I'm doing about the books about how I'm just a way more happier person now that I've completely changed my life that I have a totally different outlook this the reaction the whole thing I knew you weren't gonna be happy I've seen the guys you interview I know I I know that I know that I know that I don't fit in that that mold I'm not that guy I'm not even gonna pretend to be that guy I couldn't pretend to be that guy I could you know yeah I could have I'm trying to give it I'm trying to give him some props I'm trying to get I'm

trying to make him like let's go let's see now you're feeding him treats yeah yeah I can feel good and it worked right You know, we call that the Jedi mind trick. Hold on the part of the writing that aspect of it. And as far as, you know, it's not up for me because I'm not the Lord Almighty to judge you. But at the same time, I'm just saying as far as my integrity and how the people I mess with. If anybody in my camp, I cannot, I cannot go to dinner with them. I cannot eat with them.

I cannot. That's just how I am. I don't care. Now, you know, like you said, you didn't expect. I'm just kidding. It's just, you know, this is raw. This is fresh out raw. You know what I mean?

I'm just telling you right now, if he read it, if he felt I ratted on him or he couldn't trust me, we would not be friends. If I felt like, you know, my good home boy at the time, I mean, dude, if they found anything, they would instantly, it changes. I mean, you're longer worth anything to me. And I get that.

I think my fear is that, that that is a kind of a, you know, you did the whole, you did the whole, you did the whole delusional fucking i don't see i don't know that you relate one to the other um i don't see that that's a a good scenario but my fear is that the whole the whole prison code that there's a code or the whole code of the street thing that honestly really statistically just doesn't hold up i just think that's the wrong message to tell anybody or even to focus on my message is we have to learn that you have to have a backbone in life the bottom line I think you commit crime.

Don't commit crime. But if you're involved in anything, first of all, don't commit the crime. But the second of all, even if you're not committing a crime, you've got to have some stand-up. It's no different. It's a stand-up period. It's just, like you guys, like you said, you don't even look at crime. You guys are real estate guys. You're having fun doing this.

But everybody, nobody had no stand-up. There's no stand-up. I'm saying, dude. I don't know anybody that stood up. That's what I'm saying. So I'm saying in life, you have to have that. There's not enough that instilled. some of these values

whether you know when you grow there's certain things you learn like in a neighborhood like to me you got a problem let's go fight I'm not gonna

don't go kill the dude get beat up if you get beat up punched in the face that's part of growing up right I learned I got punched in the face a lot of times

I got hit I said that was how I learned how I learned how to be on the base but I didn't nobody on the base would tell on each other

you didn't grow up kids you learned a certain what's the fuck I don't even know what he's saying what's the base basis like whatever basis you stand on

like a code, I guess, kind of the term. Listen, listen, it's delusional. Yeah. That is absolutely delusional. You're selling drugs, living off of society, but you're a stand-up, but you're a stand-up, but you have integrity. You don't have fucking integrity.

You're fucking robbing people and you're selling drugs. New Jack City exposed off. Listen, listen, that, that's not reality, man. And all of his fans live in a fantasy world that he's created that can't be a straight up and down, like you give him straight up and down questions. It's like, you know, should I do 28 years, you know, when everybody else told on me and somebody that's committing crimes and I can get a time cut? Right. You know what I'm saying? It's like, why should I help myself? You learned a certain little code,

a certain thing. Like the code doesn't exist. It's like that to me, there's certain core value. Here's the thing. I've had a bunch of guys who wanted me to do this video. Like, I didn't want to do this video because it's like, it's stupid. Like, like, you're, like, there's a bunch of fucking people out there. There's a bunch of guys out there that like there's always some guy who did like two years. He didn't tell on anybody and he did two years. And now he thinks he's a fucking gangster. And it's like and I didn't tell on nobody. The truth is, first of all, you probably didn't have anybody to tell on. And two, maybe you did, but you were facing two years. And you didn't have a two kids and a wife. And so there's always that one idiot. So wait, let me, let me defend him

for a second. Okay. I love it. Because he might be talking. He might be talking. He might be talking state oh he's all this is all no no i'm sorry most of his a lot of his these guys are state and feds he he did federal time because he robbed the bank well then he knows then he's lying right then he's completely stupid right but if he was talking state you know state doesn't isn't really designed to give you time off for snitching right but they also don't give you the kind of time like they're not right the feds are like the feds will give you 20 years and the state will give you fucking four you yeah in the state if you're telling you're telling you're telling for practice.

Listen, if I'm looking at three years or four years, I can, I can obviously, you know, hold my water. Well, true. And in the state of your, in the state, if you're telling, you're trying to get the police officer not to arrest you, you're not going to go to court and manipulate. In the fed, the feds have made an industry of snitching to the point where they can actually, people can get paid, you can pay organization. And the fed's like, no, no, no, we don't allow that. But I read a big article, but they do allow it. There was an article where there was a guy selling Rule 35s. Absolutely.

There's been multiple articles. I know I'm pretty sure I've read the same ones because it went, you know, that goes through the prison. Like it was Miami, right? Was it Miami? I saw it was in Atlanta. Oh, okay. There was also one in Miami.

Yes. And they were selling it. And even though the judges say, well, that absolutely shouldn't happen. They still gave everyone who paid to get it. They still gave him time off. Well, because we can't have it out there that. these people did this and we didn't pay them. There's a guy named Kevin Pappas

who fucking, who was selling, he was getting information from different guys and getting people out of prison. Like some guy would send him $200,000 and he'd get him a case and he'd get cut from fucking prison. Kevin Pappas started with a life sentence. He ended up doing like fucking seven or eight years.

And he was doing it from the pen in Atlanta when Atlanta was a pen. He was doing it from the Atlanta pen. He's having the FBI and DEA come and he's like, I got a case. So I'm going to give you this case. Here's all the information.

He gives them the case. And he says, now I want the credit to go to this guy. And they go, okay, no problem. No problem. What's his name? Absolutely. I mean, the whole thing.

Listen, I told you, any FBI hotline, if you've ever called, ask if you want the reward or do you want to issue the credit? Listen, it's, it's, it's, it's an industry. But if you're in the state, he can be, that ignorance actually stands up in the state. You know what I'm saying? Right.

But it's only in the federal level where that ignorance gets completely shaved away. And the truth is, this is a state guy. Oh, well, I mean, no, I'm just saying he went to federal prison, but let's face it. He's talking about home invasion, selling drugs. It should be state charges. You happen to fall, you happen to stumble into a bank and you got caught. Like, that's really like you. Yeah, it should be state charges.

Right, right. So, you know, he's, it's just. But at the end of the day, no, you shouldn't commit crime. You should be taking a trade, doing something that's going to benefit you. But at the end of it, you still got to stay. for your people man you gotta you gotta have some time my people told on me all my people told on me Zach he's saying all his people didn't tell on him so oh okay you know but the two guys that you rob the fucking place with told on you yeah so but those weren't his people he was just going

no no no his people are there are his best friend who's never told on him yet yeah um you know or another guy that he hangs out with it he said you know what's so funny is how many of those guys will be in the compound then you end up pulling if you pull their freedom of information act or whatever, you see that they did try and tell, or they did tell, or they've told in another case, or they told here. Yes. And you just don't know. You don't. It's, it's, yeah, go right. And, go ahead. And, hey, you know, you gave an honest opinion, and I'm just sharing my honest opinion that the kids need to have that moral code. You got to, you can't be a pussy in life as far as when it comes to having your friends back. That's just, in a roundabout way. He just called me

pussy. I feel bad about that. Yeah, but. So let me ask you a question. Is it, is it harder not to tell, right, and be known as a stand-up guy around everybody? Or is it harder to tell and say, hey, I told. Which one's harder? Oh, I think tell. I think it takes

more balls to say, I told. Absolutely. He wouldn't, listen, if he told, like all the guys that come on his channel that fucking snitch, they don't say they snitched. They lie. because they're hypocrites and they're not they're not fucking men they're not men I'm saying I ain't gonna fucking lie about it go fuck yourself you got a problem with it fuck you so he's he's living in a delusional world and and even in the midst of it there there are emotions you get this like

man I don't know you know what I'm saying like what this what this does or how this affects and and the risk I'm putting myself at by doing this so it takes balls to even do it either way so friends back that's just how life is There's going to be situations maybe it might not even be that serious where oh you're looking at 50 years but god damn man you got to stand off your boy 50 fucking years you fucking idiot are you fucking out of your mind 50 fucking years I filled out some fucking paperwork I'm supposed to do 50 years yeah fuck off you're fucking crazy if that's your boy and you're doing something for him I mean you're not going to go to bat for him if I felt he was in harm I'd run over there and risk my life man

to make sure that something you know I would that's just how I am so committing a crime is one thing but also even just having somebody's back. We got so far away from that in life, man. And I don't understand it. It's like, you know, people are like, well, you know, it's just a value point. But, hey, man, I get emotional about stuff like that because this is how I grew up a little bit different.

I never had no dad. I didn't have no business in prison. And my mom bad at me when she was 13, 14. But I learned certain things, you know what I mean, just through growing up. You need to learn more. You know, I hope these kids take your advice, man. And at the end of the day, don't commit no crime.

They don't put themselves in that position. I mean, no matter how nonviolent or, you know, just passive, whatever they do in my scene, it's just, you know, I just hate to see people put themselves a horrible position and then got to go through and then, you know, deal with all. Right. Disgrateful. It's disgraceful. That is delusional. Delusional disgrace.

And good, he's giving advice, don't commit crimes. Yeah. And our advice should be, don't commit crimes. And if you do, tell on your boy. Yeah. I mean, what the fuck? We know some shit he did. So call us.

No. He just, yeah, he's absolutely fucking delusional. Yeah, he's delusional. I mean, there's just no fucking way around it. And he's playing to a crowd of people that are living in this little fantasy. And it's always some guy. It's funny because I thought. Well, you're definitely speaking feds.

Yeah. You know, in the first 48 hours, like, those suspects tell so quick. It's unbelievable. You know what's funny? So, listen, I was talking to this guy, Greg. And Greg was laughing about this fucking interview. And Greg said, listen, bro, he said, you know what's funny? He said, because the other day I had said something like, listen, don't tell me how to be a gangster

when you're working your fucking job at Walmart. You work in the back room. You work as a stock boy at Walmart. And you're trying to tell me how to be a gangster. So he started laughing. He said, what's so funny about that is I have a buddy who works at Walmart. He goes, and he'll tell, he's always like, yeah, that fucking guy's a snitch.

And it's like, bro, you've never committed a crime in your life. Like, you don't know anything about crime, and you're running around calling people snitches, and you don't even have the guts to even try and commit a crime. Not that it takes that much good, but it's like, what do you do? Like, you're running around trying to hold people accountable to some kind of code, and you work at Walmart. like what do you do it like that's his fan base oh well hey he's got him fooled he does

I mean good for him yeah I didn't want to do this fucking this fucking video like I for so long did he posted oh he posted it bro it's got like he's he's got old old big herks got a but you know what's so funny too can I tell you something about him what so I was dealing with multiple people when I was flew out to L.A. to do their podcasts there's like five podcasts I was supposed to do. Wolf of Wall Street was one. I was talking to, I was talking to Graham, Graham Steffin's assistant. We were trading emails.

I was going to be on Graham Stephan. I was going to be on Wolf of Wall Street. I was going to be on. And then there were three other podcasts I was on. Do you know who the most professional person I dealt with was? Who? Big Herc. He answered every email.

I sent, we switched to text. He answered every text right away. He was, like he was super professional. Like the other people were like, it's like two days later you get a response and they don't answer all the questions. And then they kept putting off this and changing this. And then eventually it was like, okay, what time am I supposed to be there? I'm going to be here between this day and this day. When am I supposed to be at your place and what's the address? And the next thing, now, boom, they just like ghosted me. And it's like, are you serious? This guy who's not a professional was completely professional.

So I did him, I did this comedy one, I did fresh out, and I did hey, that just got, that just dropped Colby. So, yeah, it's just like he was, and that one just went out too. They probably all came full.

That's probably ended. Well, you can still see it, and it's recording? Okay, cool. So, yeah, so I mean, he was like super professional up to this point, But, yeah, so I, like, flew in there. I don't even know where I was going to, or getting at. But anyway, yeah, so he was actually professional,

but I didn't want to do this whole thing because it was like, there was no benefit to me. And it was such a, it was so deluded. And I knew that I can't watch this without basically almost insulting him. And I probably have insulted him here, but only because he's delusion. It's a tiny bit. Well, I mean, I'm not calling him.

A lot of it's truth, a lot of it's insult. But how many views it get is what you were talking about? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, is that what I was doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold on. quick. So the, all the, this whole thing is on, uh, it's called fresh out. Right. And it's a big Herc and it's on fresh out. And, uh, let's do this. So, oh, shoot, I should have just gone with

it. So that video got 35,000 views. Uh, I don't know. And another one of the videos got 28,000. Um, another one of the videos got 25,000. What's funny is the one that got the most views is the last one where we talk about snitching. really that's the one that's gotten the most views so far pretty sure yeah 35,000 views is that that's part three so yeah it's a fresh out check it out and so yeah that's it's it all right hey this was Matt Cox and Zach and we are we just did fresh out and we talked about Big Hurk and what a great guy is and how solid he is yes and that's uh that's it if you like the video do me a favor hit the uh subscribe hit the notification bell leave a comment and share the video and i appreciate

you guys watching and that's it see you see you see you