Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Exposing The Dark Side Of Prison | Dave Durcocher

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

Exposing The Dark Side Of Prison | Dave Durcocher

On July 18th, get excited. This is big! For the summer's biggest adventure. I think I just smurf my pants. That's a little too excited. Sorry. Smurfs. Only dinner's July 18th.

I stole everything you could possibly imagine to support my habit. I got into Dad's wallet, got the safe combination, was smart enough to get into the safe, stole thousands of dollars. I'd wait in my room for the neighbors to leave, run downstairs, go out the sliding glass. door over the block wall into their house. I'd go to other neighbors and make up stories about what I needed money for. I just did everything you could possibly imagine. But when I'm in jail or prison and I'm getting letters and I'm getting visits and I'm getting phone calls and I'm getting quarterly package and I have a TV in myself. Doing time becomes easy. I'm telling you we're doing it wrong. You are celebrated as if you graduated from college. They get quarterly packages. They get

money sent in. They've got all their family coming to visit them as if they're doing something. productive, why the hell should we allow that to happen? I would change the entire system. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I appreciate you guys checking in and watching the video. I've got an interview with David DeRocher. I feel like I... You nailed it. Did I? I feel like I messed it up again, but that's fine. So really interesting story. He runs like a re-entry program, but he's got an interesting true crime story. I think we were just saying that he was doing life on the installment plan, you know, two years, 10 years, five years, you know, little bits and pieces, but interesting story. And so check this out. Right now I'm in

Salt Lake City, Utah. I'm the executive director with an organization called the Other Side Academy. And the Other Side Academy is, you know, I think it's important before I tell you who we are, who are not, when you think of treatment facilities, the average treatment facility now is 30, 60, or 90 days long. And the first question they ask you when you get there is, how much money do you have? And if you don't have any, you have to go out there and continue to die. And if you do have money, it's not yours. It's mom or dad's or somebody else is paying for your recovery. And then, you know, when that money runs out, it's time for you to leave, whether you're ready or not. The treatment facility, the treatment model in this country is broken. And it has been for about four decades

intentionally because it's a money-making machine and it's built around a funding model rather than a helping model. That doesn't mean there aren't remarkable people working there that mean well, but their hands are cuffed because they only have us for 30, 60 or 90 days and nobody can change in that amount of time. And I don't give a shit of somebody. Can I say shit? Yeah. I don't give a shit if somebody gets clean and sober. I think that term should be a felony. We're killing more people trying to get them clean and sober and not helping them actually change. But we'll get into that more as we go through our conversation. But the other side academy juxtaposed against a treatment facility is a minimum of two and a half years long residential minimum requirement to start. Now about 65% of

my students are asking to stay a third year. But here's the interesting thing. We're two and a half years long. We are completely free. If you walk through our front door and you take a seat on our bench and we interview you and we accept you, you start right then. If you write us a letter from the county jail while you're fighting your case pre-sentence, we go into the jails and interview you, and we accept you, then the judge, LDA, and prosecutor can sentence you to the other side academy, only if you've asked for help, we've interviewed you, then they can suspend whatever time they deem necessary over your head. You come to the other side academy. We take no money from the government. City, county, state, federal government, rich mommy and daddy, Medicaid, nothing.

We generate all of our own revenue through our social enterprises. We have a moving company that does between 300 and 350 moves a month, number one rated moving company in the entire state of Utah. If you look at that trophy up there in that corner, top shelf, that's the Ernst and Young entrepreneurs of the year. We won that award over the Utah elite with a moving company ran by ex-felons and ex-drug addicts. Wrapped your mind around that. We have two huge thrift boutiques, about 30,000 square feet apiece. We have a construction company called the other side builders and we have a storage company called the other side storage. Those social enterprises generate all of our revenue so that we can continue to do the work that we're doing without

charging anybody, anything to be here. And the reason why that's so important is when I was going to jail, who was paying for me? Yeah, the taxpayer. I was a burden. Yeah. I was going to prison. I was a burden. When I'm going to programs that I can't pay for, I was a burden. You come to the other side academy, you are no longer a burden. The day you get here, you become part of the solution, not the problem. Nobody's paying for your horrible decisions in the life that you broke and wrecked. You're going to do the work yourself. The beautiful thing about that is you can stay here as long as you need to.

Because there is nobody on the face of the planet that's a drug addict that's ready on day 30, 60 or 90. You have to, people leave programs for one of two reasons because they have to or because they can. At the other side academy, you're allowed to stay as long as you need to. As long as you are a contributing member of this community, you are working hard, you are helping other people. And if you need more time, you can stay because that whole person transition takes time. That really is our model in a nutshell. We're long. We're structured.

We are hard. We are free. We take no money from the government. And we support ourselves. We're completely self-sustaining. Okay. All right. Well, how did you get?

So I guess I'm, you know, not that I'm not interested in that, that I don't want to talk about that. I actually have a couple of, a bunch of questions because I actually have a friend that since I've been out, like, he's always had an alcohol problem. Well, it actually, you know, it started at alcohol and now it's, it's all the way to like crack to crack. Like he's apparently, you know, that's a major problem for him. But like since I've been out of prison, he's relapsed four times that I know of. This is a grown man. This guy's 55. He's just turned 55 years old.

Yeah. And this is not, you know, clean cut, white guy, blonde hair, blue-eyed. That's the nice thing about him. He can always get a job. He can get a job just enough to get all of his shit together, be okay for a month or two. Boom. Next thing you know, relapses. And I mean relapses like sells his car to the drug man, sells his self.

I mean, just calls me up, asks me to pick him up. and I'm like, like, I can't be around. Like, I pick him up and I help him out and I help talk to his sister and drive around and try and get his stuff back. And I'm like, what am I doing, bro? I'm not in this. I can't be in this position. Enabling him.

Right. But, oh, I agree. I trust me. I can't tell you how many times. I just had that conversation with his sister yesterday. She's on the phone crying, trying to find his car. And I'm saying, don't. But what I was going to say to you is like he's actually gone.

back into a program. He just, and he's had, he's had five, he'll go five or six years sometimes and then just have two years of just completing that cycle. So I was just wondering, do you, do you sometimes have people that come back to get out and come back? It happens. It's, it's not commonplace, but we do have people that have recycled through a second time, you know, but the fascinating thing about what we do compared to other models is your, your average treatment facility has a three to five percent success rate. I challenge anybody listening to this podcast right now. Go online. If you find any organizations that have the integrity to post the real numbers, your treatment facilities can boast three, maybe seven percent tops. You come to

the other side academy where 73 percent of our students who stay two years are DCE, drug-free, crime-free, and employed. If you stay three years or longer, it's 85 percent. Those who've stayed with us for four years or longer, it's in the high 90s. The farther you get that old life, just, I mean, it's such common sense. The farther you get the old lifestyle behind you, the harder it is to return to. Brand new circle of influence, been with us for four years. You turn around, you look back. Your friends are dead in jail, in prison. There's nothing to go back to. 30-day program, complete it, turn around. Your old lifestyle still has its talents in you. All the phone numbers are still the same. People are still around. We're the idiots thinking,

that those places are going to work very well when we send people there, you know, and I can go on and on about how broken the model is as it relates to that. So the beauty of this model is you stay a long time, transform, completely change the way you think and your odds of success go through the roof. So the reason why your buddy probably uses, gets clean, uses, gets clean, uses, gets clean. Goes back to what I said earlier. I absolutely despise the term clean and sober. I think when people use it, it should be a felony. I know that's going you know, way out there. But getting people clean and sober is not always the answer.

If it's true that when I was out there and I was a criminal, I was a liar, a cheater, a thief, a manipulator, self-centered, self-seeking, violent, emotionally, far more violent physically, human being. Go ahead, get me clean and sober. And what do you got? A clean and sober, can I say asshole? Yeah. Because that's who I was.

I had become a complete animal. So go ahead. 30 day models. Anybody who sent me to a 30 day model needs more help than I do. They're not going to work for a guy like me or anybody else like me that has 27 years of that learned behaviors. We need to go someplace that's long and that's structured and gives us the time we need to learn to tell the truth, to learn to be accountable, to learn to have integrity, to learn to be dependable, and reverse all those bad behaviors that we've learned over the years. All right. Well, so how did you get here? Where were you, where were you born?

Like, what, what, what got you to this place? Because I, I know, you know, you've done, you did a TED talk. I know you've done a bunch of these interviews. Because I know you have like a, you know, a crime, you know, well, I mean, what, you know, a ton of time, you know, locked up, you know. But also, you know, a story of addiction and, you know, and just of various crimes. And I'm wondering, like, what, what, how did that? that, you know, were you a bad kid? Were you a great kid?

Were you? Do you remember Dennis the Menace? Yeah. Yeah. That was me on steroids. All right. Matt, I was a criminal before I ever did drugs. Literally, I was born in Anaheim, California.

My parents lived in Cerritos. Mom and dad are still married today, 58, 59 years, something like that. Really, for all intents and purposes, good parents. All parents have their issues. And what happened was, you know, Dad was a drinker. He drank beer. He had his friends over. He had dirt bikes. That's how I learned to ride. And when they'd come over, and this was the 70s. So people didn't really look at it back then the way they do now. And dad would have his friends over. I'd go get the Budweiser's out of the refrigerator, pop it open, take the first drink, you know, give them to his friends. And at the end of the evening, you know, assuming I was still awake, I'd get all the cans. I'd take the last drinks and I'd throw the cans away. I started that at a really young age. Then, right? But even before that, when I was six, or seven years old before that ever even started. I was the kid literally that would wait for the postman, the mailman to come around during Christmas to drop off the mail,

and I'd still mail out of mailboxes. I was no more than six, seven, eight years old because I knew there was probably cash in the cards being sent to some of these houses. So I was stealing shit at a very young age. I cannot explain to you why I was like that at that age, but I can't explain as I go through my story why I turned into the person that I did. So could you imagine trying to deal? with a kid at that age i was sneaky i was manipulating i was starting fires in the trash cans in my

room my mom and dad did not know how to deal with me and my dad became verbally violent you son of you're never going to amount to shit what's wrong with you you know what i mean and then there was physical abuse in there but that was a norm for me it's not like i was an eight nine year old thinking this is odd that was the household i grew up in that's what i knew it wasn't until many years later that i realized the error in that way of bringing a kid up but i don't know how i'd have dealt with me either i was not an easy kid to deal with when i say dennis the menace that's an understatement i was hell on wheel probably how every in the 70s and 80s that's how everybody that's how you were just dealt with i mean yeah it is not like here you know let's give him a hug and sit down and send him to a

council like you know work either yeah there's you know so you know we'll just say that i was just born that way it was in my DNA that's the kind of kid that i was and it probably he perpetuated the problem with the way it was dealt with and it just added uh it was insult to injury if you will and i ended up in about 11 years old just uh stealing alcohol out of my dad's booze bottle he'd go to work i'd go to school i'd come home from school i'd have a few drinks i'd replace the water in the in this alcohol container because he would never find out and lo and behold after a few days he'd come home from work and he'd have a drink and realize he wasn't getting the desired effect he was looking for i was right um as you can imagine that conversation

didn't go well more of the same and at a 12 years old i was smoking pot and at the age of 13 i did my first line of cocaine now it's difficult enough to navigate your teenage years without any of that stuff at 13 years old i'm doing cocaine and when i did my first line of cocaine i thought i found god i didn't feel like i felt previous to that i felt like superman i stole everything you could possibly imagine to support my habit. I got into dad's wallet, got the safe combination, was smart enough to get into the safe, stole thousands of dollars. I'd wait in my room for the neighbors to leave, run downstairs, go out the sliding glass door over the block wall, into their house. I'd go to other neighbors and make up stories about what I needed money

for to buy. I just did everything you could possibly imagine. I went through a drive-thru at a bank on my bike with a forged check of my dad's and got busted in the drive-through to get money for cocaine. That's how bad things got. I did cocaine all the way through high school, right? And I barely made it through, got girls pregnant, had abortions or they did. I eventually had my first son while I was a senior in high school, got her pregnant when she was a junior. So I'm having kids. Could you, man, I can't even take care of me, let alone a kid. And I'm having kids in high school while I'm doing cocaine. And I'm just pulling this out of my pocket real quick. Things got so bad, Matt, that I was the kind of kid that would go to school. And while the

teacher was up with the chalkboard, I'd be sitting in the back of the class. This is chapstick. It's not a vial of cocaine. But I'd have that little viola cocaine in my pocket. And when the teacher wasn't looking, I'd pour it out in between the pages of my math book or my English book or my history book, whatever class I was in. And then I'd pull the pen apart, you know, and I'd make a straw. And when the teacher wasn't looking, I'd bend over and snort coke off my pages and my book in class. That's how bad it got. Somehow, I managed to graduate high school. Graduated in 1985 by the skin of my teeth, and I went from when I graduated high school, I graduated from cocaine to methamphetamine. And really, that's when the wheels fell off. I mean, they were already wobbly, right? But they literally,

that's when things went off the track. You're still in California? I'm still in California. So when was this? What time period? I graduated in 1985. He built some of the nation's largest banks out of an estimated $55 million, because $50 million wasn't enough, and $60 million seemed excessive. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crimes, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.

Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patriot. Cox's Patreon. Okay. So when I graduated... Meth is just starting to kind of hit the area at that time. Yeah, it's P2P, it's old biker dope, it's that kind of thing. You know what I mean?

The kind of stuff you do a line and you're up for a couple of days, it's not that bathtub stuff that you get a lot of today. But it was, you know, back then it was that P2P biker stuff that, you know, was floating around in the 80s. And I fell in love. I mean, I literally fell in love. It's cheaper. It lasts longer.

It's just the whole dynamic was different. and I never set out to be a drug dealer, Matt. I didn't. I didn't like one day go, that's it. I'm going to deal drugs. I would just buy some 16th, break it into quarters, sell a few of them, buy my next one, just enough to support my habit. And then one thing led to another. And then I'm buying an eight ball. And I'm, you know, it doesn't sound like a lot. And it was to me it was back then. And then I'm buying a quarter ounce. And one thing led to another. And I continually bought more and more and was just breaking it down and selling it. And pretty soon I realized I have this entreeing. entrepreneurial gene. I never even knew existed. And pretty soon I'm making money. But with that comes the weapons and the arrests. And I started to get arrested in the 80s and started going to prison. And my first prison term was two years. I didn't have any violence yet. So I did, you know, better than half of that two year term, considerably more than that two year term, because I lost some time. And then got out, stayed out for 59 days, got busted again, a large amount of methamphetamine, loaded firearms. and I was literally in Huntington Beach pulling into a motel.

They were waiting for me all day long. I'm in a convertible. I pull in. I hit the button. The convertible tops coming down. And then the hotel doors open up and they come out and gun, you know how they do it. And I'm just sitting there like, holy shit, what just happened? The convertible top never even made it all the way down.

And the cops were on me. And I had two loaded nine millimeters. One of them had caught killers in it. For those who don't know, it's just a bullet with the top chopped off and the dark coming through the center and their Teflon-coated to go through the vest. You can imagine what the cops did when they found that. I sure they were thrilled. Hand cuffed.

I'm on my knees. A cop picks me up and with one hand swings me this way. And with the other hand, hit me in the side of the face. And I've never been knocked out. And that was about as close as I'd ever come at that time in my life and rung my bell because they took that personally. Needless to say, that was my two-year prison sentence, got out, stayed out for less than two months, got busted again, got a five-year sentence.

Went to prison, got out, got busted again, got a six-year prison sentence, got out for four months, went back for a 10-year prison sentence. But the thing was, literally, the day I got out of prison, I was on my way back. There were times that I got out of prison that I had a homeboy pick me up. We're leaving the parking lot. He says, reach under the seat. I pull the bag out from under the seat. Everything's in there. We're getting loaded the whole way home, the big welcome home party as if I did something, and I'm off and running again.

And even while I was in prison, you know, but we'll get back to the in prison. Two-year term, five-year term, six-year term, ten-year term. Then I'm in Huntington Beach, California after my 10-year prison sentence. I'm at a house at Magnolia and Atlantic. Well, I'm at a house on Magnolia. And I'm weighing stuff up. I'm doing my thing. I look out the window and there's a helicopter hovering really, really high in the sky.

He's just sitting up there. Usually these helicopters are floating around the city, just patrolling the city. and as I continue to get on the phone and do my thing, I look out, that helicopter is still sitting way the hell up there. I mean way up there, but it's just sitting there. And I'm thinking, nah, there's no way. Get everything done, put everything in the bag. I leave that house, and the cops were everywhere.

Huntington Beach, PD, Fountain Valley, Garden Grove, parole. And I had told everybody that I know that I'm never pulling over again. They're never taking me alive. I already know when I go back to prison, I'm going to spend the rest of my life in there. So I took them on a high-speed chase. I had complete disregard for public safety. I had wanton disregard.

I was displacing vehicles. I was up on sidewalks. I'm going through red lights. And I'm trying to get to a bridge in Huntington Beach to throw everything out the window down into the water. And if they find it, they got to prove that's mine. That was my train of thought. Well, I never made it to that bridge. I'm on McNoia going south.

I hit Atlantic and I see the cops there. And, you know, it was interesting because that helicopter had come all the way down. the casophony of sound between the helicopter, the spotlight in my vehicle, the sirens and the commands to pull over were deafening. And in that moment, I knew this is probably going to be it, but I am not stopping. There's just no way. Why would I? I am going to prison. There's no way around it. And when I got to that intersection, there was a couple cop cars parked there that weren't following me, and I had a decision to make. Go through that roadblock or stop and let him arrest me. And I opted for I wanted to die.

I wanted to use my car as the battering ram, and I wanted the cops to kill me. And human nature is funny. As I'm approaching that intersection, I hunker down in the car. I want them to shoot because I don't want to get arrested and go to prison. I want it to be over.

But they didn't. And when I made that left-hand turn, the cot closest to me did the pursuit intervention technique, the pit maneuver, spun me out of control, up on an embankment, and those cops commenced once they pulled me out of that vehicle at gunpoint

to give me one of the worst beatings of my adult life. And I'll be honest with you, I had that shit coming. I had put their lives in danger, everybody else's lives in danger. They really, by right, should have shot me going through that intersection when I hit that cop car and displaced it to get it out of the way. They should have. But they didn't. And I'm thankful today that they didn't, obviously.

But one of the last things I heard before I passed out was stop, stop, we're going to kill him. I'm in a shopping center when they spun me out of control up on that embankment in that parking lot. So there's people coming out of the gym and the other little strip mall stores that were there. Anyway, I go to jail, and when I get to jail and I go to court the first time, my offer was 29 years. That was pretty damn sobering. I had already spent a large portion of my adult life going in and out of prison, and now I get to go back and I get to die there. So over a number of months, some of the ancillary charges had fallen off, and it came down to 22 years. My judge at that time in Orange County was Judge Pacheco, and he was very, very stern and very resolute in his decision

that 22 years was what I was going to get. I had a one year prison prior, one year prison prior, one year prison prior, one year prison prior, one year prison prior from my four terms. Three year enhancement, three year enhancement, three year enhancement, three year enhancement, just because the other prison priors and all the crimes were the same. Sales, transportation, loaded firearms. so all my enhancements actually added up to more time than just the sales and transportation of the current charges but 22 years was it so I fought my case for a long time in the county jail in the hopes that it would come down to something manageable like 15 years I was just kept going to court I've playing the game I want to stay in the county I want to get the girls I want to get the

visits and I'm going to fight this case as long as I can I'm firing public defenders I'm doing whatever I got to do, and the hopes that the judge eventually will give me something less than 22. Thankfully, he didn't. But along the way, as I'm fighting my case, I write a place called Delancey Street. Have you heard of Delancey Street? No, just from what you've said. Okay. Delante Street was widely known as the gold standard in this country. It was a two-year residential life skills training academy for people like me and others who had completely destroyed their lives and it's really the only place that judges would send people like me because they're not going to send me to a 30 they're not stupid right why would they but i wrote delancy street a letter

in los angeles they came and they interviewed me in the county jail and they accepted me but when i went to court and i asked the judge he and no uncertain terms told me hell no you are not delancy street material i will never send you to delancy street stop asking you're going to prison for the rest of your life. So, you know, I go back to my cell and I am tired. I'm broken. And really for the first time in my life, Matt, I was scared. I'm like, Jesus, nothing's working. He's not, they accepted me. He's not going to let me go. So in that process, you know, I wasn't really busy in my cell at night. I decided to write him a letter. And I wrote Judge Pacheco, a four page letter on legal pad. And I admitted everything. I own it. I'm guilty. I took a chance, Matt. Four pages long. I explained

everything. I said, Your Honor, you've got me dead rights. I am everything you say I am. I'm all those things. But Delancey Street interviewed me and they think they can help me. Why don't you give me a chance? One of two things will happen. You'll send me to Delancey Street, suspend my sentence over my head, and I'll get kicked out or I'll split and you can lock me up for the rest of my life or the next time you see me, it's because I'm coming back to say thank you. And about six weeks later, I went to court. And for those of you who aren't my age, I don't know if you remember what a phone booth looks like, but just a metal cage. But in court, it's much smaller. And in California, that's how they did it with guys like me. So I'm in ankle irons, waist irons, handcuffs.

And I'm sitting in that little cage. And Judge Pacheco said, Mr. DeRosher, against my better judgment, I'm going to give you the opportunity of a lifetime. I'm going to send you to Delancey Street. I'm letting you go. But you're going to plead guilty to all of your charges today, and you're signing a deal for 22 years. And I don't know if you've ever felt vertigo. You get really good news. really bad news completely unexpected you know you get a phone call someone died or you know you won a lottery whatever you kind of get that dizzy feeling i'm in that cage going holy shit i'm getting out of jail to go to a two-year program i couldn't believe he was giving me the shot but that letter tugged on his heartstrings and other people had written letters you know in my corner saying come on

dave's better than this give him a shot whatever it was he gave me a shot can i say something sure you don't sound better than this like you sound like you've been in and out of prison like this sounds like a huge opportunity from a judge who had no reason to give you a chance at all yeah I mean you know I'm saying it's like how many I I talk to guys and I you know I talk to guys go in and out in and out all the time and there a lot of times you know they're irritated at the judge and the system and this and that and I just always think like like what did you think like what were you what did you like you don't deserve better than it's like being in prison and listening to guys complain about the food it's like you're a scumbag what did you think they were going to feed you yeah like when i was when i was committing fraud i never thought well at least when i go to prison they'll feed me good you know like i don't like i used to say i don't even deserve this you know they got fried chicken right that's right matt listen make no mistake about it i am all about accountability jails

and prisons saved my chicken shit life. Every time I went to prison, it's exactly where I belong. When those cops beat me senseless, I had that shit coming. I never complained when I was in prison. I earned it. I asked to go there. It wasn't the cop's fault. It wasn't the judge's fault. It was my fault. You know, it's fascinating in the world we live in today when we don't hold people accountable anymore and we make excuses for people. There are no excuses. I knew what I was doing when I was doing it. I knew what I was doing was wrong. I chose wrong. I can't complain when I get arrested. And there's many other really hairy situations and some of the other arrests that might be interesting to talk about if we have the time. But I had that shit coming. I am not one to

complain about the time. I'm telling you, prison saved my life and it probably saved yours. I don't mean you personally, but what I mean is in my arc and my criminality, I challenge you. You'll never find someone who robbed a bank and that was their first crime. It all starts. way down here and ends up way up here. You did the same thing in your criminal career. You didn't start what you were doing up here. That's just where it ended when you got caught. Yeah, I always think I wish they grabbed me.

They had grabbed me way beforehand because I would have been facing way less time. Yep. You know, I got such a, the first time I got in trouble, I got a slap on the hand. And all it did was emboldened me. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, Matt. You know, there's so much more we can talk to about the accountability, accountability. piece now in the criminal justice reform i have my opinions on where things are headed in this country

and how how we're doing it wrong and i always ask people and i'll be in miami in a couple days with our mayor and our chief of police and our d a high utilizer conference and i think they want me to come along because i can say things they can't we're killing people and i ask people all the time is the problem getting worse or is the problem getting better and they all say oh it's getting worse no it's not our response to it is i don't give a shit if you're a drug addict if you're a criminal hold me accountable. If you're out there committing crimes to support your habit, I don't care if the drug addicts attach to it. Arrest the criminal, lock them up. I mean, be fair about it and give us opportunities on the inside to get the help that we need and at least afford us opportunities to get into programs on the

inside if that's what we wish to do. But when you're a guy like me in California in a California prison earning all my ink and swastikas and white power and all that shit, you've got to put the work in to get that. When I'm doing that kind of stuff in prison, leave my ass there. I have no right to be on the streets. I'm not adding anything to the community. I'm tearing at the fabric of it. I deserve to be in prison. He built some of the nation's largest banks out of an estimated $55 million

because $50 million wasn't enough. And $60 million seemed excessive. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crimes. but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon.

He built some of the nation's largest banks out of an estimated $55 million because $50 million wasn't enough and $60 million seemed excessive. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crimes, but when I do, it's bankfraud. fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.

Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. Yeah, I hear it. Listen, I, I, you know, it's so funny is, you know, I, like, I met some great people. I'm sure you met some great people in prison, but the vast majority of the people that are in prison that I met, I don't want them living in my neighborhood. I, I, you know, it's like, I don't want to be around you. I don't want, you know, you don't want your, your kids around you. My buddy, he, like, wants to, you know, he's hoping that his sister will let him move in. And I'm like, your sister, you're not the kind of person that your, your sister doesn't want you around her kids. Yeah. And she can make. Right. And she's right. Like she, you know,

that's the worst part is that, you know, that, like that was, I, the, the nicest thing about being in prison for me was that unlike, you know, you talked to a lot of guys who always complained and bitched and moan, And I used to, I used to be like, you know, listen, the nicest thing about it is that I'm 100% guilty. Like, I absolutely should be here. Yep. You know, so. It's funny you say that because, you know, every time when I got arrested and got beat, there was a couple times that happened, but that last one was the worst beating I had taken by law enforcement. I had it coming.

It's not like they came to church and pulled me out of church and pulled me out of church for singing too loud in the church prior. I mean, good God, I had it coming. If I was, if I was law enforcement at that time, I don't know how I'd had dealt with me any differently than they did. I literally had it come in. You know, it's unfortunate in the world we live in today. Sometimes a good ass beaten is what it takes. You know, we don't do it anymore. But sometimes that's what it takes.

And people learn a really valuable lesson, and they'll never do that again. Yeah. But we've gotten so soft in this country as it relates to incarceration. We've swung way to the left, right? And it's usually because of this. Because the people making decisions about guys like you and me are academics that don't have a damn clue who the hell we are.

You have educated, scholastic people who have gone to college making decisions about guys like us who have never been drug addicts, never been to jail, never lived a day on the street, never been to prison. What the hell do you know about us? And they're not close enough to the consequences of their decisions to understand where they're going wrong. Yeah. It's fascinating. Yeah. I tell you, you know, it's so funny. And this is, this is, you know, it was 13 years.

okay so you know now i met guys have done 20 25 years like i god only knows what they're dealing with and i don't even feel like i had any real major issues when i got out right like i had a little bit if i was a little jumpy you know i was a little bit and i and i definitely was a lot more aggressive or assertive than i'd ever been in my life like people were like bro you're so angry you're so aggressive and i'd be like i'm like i didn't think i was aggressive i didn't think i was i just i was like i'm just assertive you know that's how you're you know that's how you you have to be. But, you know, I'm not saying thank you. You know how it is. Like they don't say, you know, hey, you know, excuse me, can I borrow this or please or, you know, hey, thank you

or what, you know, it's always like, yo, bro, you got some sugar. You got sugar? Let me get, let me get a piece. Let me get one. It's always like, what, you know. So when I got out, that's how I had gotten. Yeah. I moved into a to a spare room in a friend's house who was renting room, right? It was a big room. There was a closet in the room. There was a closet in the room. I moved my bed into the large closet. It was just big enough to fit my bed. No, no windows. And I slept in there. And she was like, what are you doing? And I was like, well, I have more room now in the bigger room because I paint and I do that and I need that space. And she's like, doesn't bother you. Listen, the best night's sleep I think I got was when I was sleeping in that

little room. Yeah. Like it was great. I was fine with it. I was good with it. Like it felt comfortable. It's been so long. Yeah. You know, I'm 17, almost 18 years removed from the lifestyle. And my wife will tell you today, even when we go out, we go to restaurants, I still want to pick a spot where my back is to the wall. I still want everything in front of me. I don't know that I'll ever change it because it just makes me feel comfortable when I

can see everything in front of me happening. I'm not comfortable with groups of people behind me. And I wasn't like that before I went into prison. It happened in there. And I don't think that's one of the things. I need to change, but to your point, I feel your pain. There are little things I still do that I don't know that will ever go away that I brought with me from the years of incarceration.

That anxiety, even if, you know, like, will that anxiety ever, it took six months. Took me about six. Long Bandy Twizzlers candy keeps the fun going. Keep the fun. going Twizzlers Keep the fun going

Six months Before I stopped thinking to myself They're going to realize They made a mistake Like I'm waiting for the phone call Or I'm waiting to answer the door And have the You know have a couple of sheriffs there going

Hey listen Sorry something like oh fuck And then it took And around 4 o'clock You know how 4 o'clock count You start getting that Like I'm supposed to be somewhere. I'm supposed to be in my room. I'm supposed to be waiting to be counted.

It was all these little, and they're stupid. But it's that little tingly anxiety that you're like, I can't believe I feel like this. Like this is this problem. Like something's wrong. Do you still make spreads? Like spreads? Yeah. You don't top ramen soup with all the fixings in it. Listen, I did have a top ramen soup. You understand, I got top ramen soup. I actually used to have a thing of Keefea coffee. Yeah. I don't know if they sell it. I used to have a thing just as a joke.

Yeah. But, oh, yeah, listen. Oh, you need a can of bugler tobacco and you're good to go. Look. Yeah, it's, it is. Oh, God. It's so funny to my girlfriend and I, we joke all the time about, about being about the food they would make.

Listen, amazingly ingenuative as far as, you know, the foods that they would come up with and the way they would take commissary and make stuff. But anyway, so the judge gave you, let's go back to the judge gave you a chance. So you're in your, you're in this little cage. I'm in my cage. I've seen the cages. I know what you're talking about, by the way. And when he said that he was going to give me the opportunity to go to Delancey Street,

I could not believe that that letter and others had worked. And we'll get back to that judge in a moment. So this is on a Thursday, I believe. And I'm in Orange County jail in California. My parents live in Las Vegas. When they heard that I was getting the opportunity to go, they drove from Las Vegas to Orange County to make sure I got picked up from the jail and taken straight to Delancey Street.

I get out of jail and there's a girl wait. It took all night long. They were not letting me out until they were 100% sure there wasn't a mistake. There was no way. It took almost a day for me to get out of jail. When I got out that next morning, there was a girl in the parking lot. I jumped in her car. We drove across the street to the block.

It's a mall. And, you know, we read Bible verses in their car in the parking lot, right? You get it. And then I went back and my girlfriend picked me up. And we took off and I was gone for hours. Now, remember, my mom and dad are at a hotel down the street waiting for me. So hours go by while I'm with my girlfriend, right? The girl that I loved, right?

Right. As if we know what the hell that word means. And finally, I got this conscience. And I knew if I didn't go to Delancey Street, I've just thrown away in an opportunity of a lifetime. I'm going to go back to prison for the rest of my life. I'm going to get that 22 years and whatever else I get busted for on my way there. And I called my mom, and this is no exaggeration, she will tell you to this day,

she was screaming on the phone and crying on the phone at the same time. I could barely understand her. I'm hours late. They know I've been released and they're just, they don't know what to do. Do they drive home? Do they wait for me? She's screaming and crying. I've got 15 minutes to get to where they're at.

they're leaving. I told Jennifer, get me to my parents right now. I got there. They took me from that parking lot at the hotel to Delancey Street in L.A. and I was really late. They didn't need to accept me. I sat on that bench. They gave me the second interview, and they took me. So I get to Delancey Street with a 22-year prison sentence suspended over my head. I'm required to stay two years. Matt, I stayed in that program for eight and a half years. I stayed in a residential program for eight and a half years. Two years to beat a 22-year prison sentence and six and a half more because I fell in love with the process. And for the first time in my life, I fell in love with me. And the last five years that I was there, Mimi Silbert, the president of Galancy Street,

asked me if I'd run the LA facility, 200 to 250 people, residential at any given time, 15 vocational training schools that generated all of the revenue. I managed a multimillion dollar organization for free. You couldn't have paid me enough to do it. I loved what I was doing, helping get other people from where I was to where I had gotten. It completely transformed my life, being able to balance the scales and make a difference. I found my drug. I found my new high. It was just an incredible transformation, but it wasn't easy. It was like chiseling pieces of the rock off of, you know, the statue of David. You know, it just took some time to chisel off those rough edges. And I was so grateful that I got the time that I needed that I was afforded

the opportunity to stay as long as I did. And then, you know, after Delancey Street, I got a great job in Southern California, hauling heavy equipment, had my commercial license. I was, you're ready for this? I was making like 30 bucks an hour, Matt. 30 bucks an hour. It was the most, I had been out of the workforce for decades. The last time I had a job, I was making like $9 an hour. I don't remember what it was, but it was around that, right? I had been out of the workforce for decades. Now I'm at a Teamsters union. I'm hauling heavy equipment, you know, underground pipeline construction. But a bunch of my buddies that had graduated Delanche Street were up in the Bakken and North Dakota making completely ridiculous money. And they were letting me know and showing me their,

you know, their paycheck sums, how much they're making. They're going, Dave, you've got to get up here. So I went up to the Bakken. The day I got there, had five job opportunities, stayed up there for five months. The first month I was up there, I made $17,500. I worked 31 days in a row. row in the oil fields and a couple things happened um now i'm making really good money the cops can't take it and i realized two things that making money is fun there's no denying that but uh saving lives was rewarding i missed the people part i missed the lancy street i didn't like work in the oil fields i loved going to work every day and supporting me but i hated my job and i wanted to get back into the people business but i don't believe in the 30 60 90 day models i think they're a crock

shit. Not that there isn't great people working there because they are very well-intentioned, incredible human beings, but the model's broken. So I came back to Southern California, did some presentations at all these different programs, and then a godshot happened. A lady who was in Delancey Street for 38 years, her name was Charlotte Baker. She was in San Francisco facility for 38 years that graduated a couple years before that. We had remained friends, and she met some people in Utah, Joseph Grenny, our founder, and Tim Stay, our CEO. And she said, Dave, they want to start a replication of the lancy street i told them i only know one person they can help and do this do you want to meet them joseph and tim flew to los angeles we met at fleming's uh stakehouse near l a live

with the lakers and the clippers play and we sat down and i asked them both who in the hell are you what's the genesis of thought behind this what makes you think you can and why would you want to i interviewed them who's first go ahead and about an hour into that after each one of them told me who they were i knew i was in the presence of great men and uh about three hours later they said are you willing to come to Utah and help us get this started. And I said, not if you quit in six months when it gets hard. And that's how my story intersected with the other side academy. And in 2015, I came to Salt Lake City. We bought the property. And now I have 105 students living on property in Salt Lake, 20 staff members, most of which are homegrown, came through the program. We've already scaled

the model in Denver. We've got 50 students in Denver. So we were able to take this model and scale it. We are immensely, immensely successful. People come from all over the world to study the model. We go all over the world studying other models, but it really has become the model to look at as it relates to this population and how to help people transform their lives. Did I miss it? How long have you been doing this? Since 2015. A little bit over seven years. Okay. I have a question. Is it faith-based? It is not faith-based. It is faith-friendly. And here's the reason why that is.

Pretend like this is a Bible, right? Right. A lot of guys go to jail. They pick up the Bible. They go to their cell. They kick their feet up. They start reading the Bible. A year later, DeRocher, roll it up for release.

That Bible ends up in the trash can as I leave the jail. Right? There's more Bibles in that trash can. Listen, I don't give a shit what anybody says. They're wrong. You cannot have a healthy relationship with God until you have one with you. If you are still a liar, a cheater, a thief, and a manipulator,

just because you pick the Bible up doesn't mean you're going to solve anything. It's just comfort while you're incarcerated. You can hide in yourself behind the Bible so you don't have to get involved in the prison politics. And the day you get released, you go start using it again. It's not like you have your Bible with you and you've got a crack pipe in your hand and you go, oh, thank God for my crack. You know what I mean? That's not what happens.

You don't even know how to have a relationship with God because you don't have one with yourself. If you can't be completely honest, completely vulnerable, completely transparent, have integrity with you, how are you going to have it with your higher power? Yeah. People get confused all the time. They think these faith-based programs, not that they don't have value in some cases, but by and large, it doesn't work very well. Well, you know, it's funny, my buddy, like, not this time, but like two times before, before the last time, he was, you know, I was listening to him, talk to his girlfriend about what had happened with him, lying, lying.

Even though it wasn't 100% of a lie, it was downplaying, downplaying, down, that, you know, and it was, and I remember thinking, and I even, well, I'm thinking I even said to him, you know, why aren't you being honest? What do you mean? I said, I just heard you call your boss and lie to him. I just listened to you for 30 minutes lie to your girlfriend. I didn't lie. I told her this. No, no, no, no. You did lie. You said this and not that. You said this and not that. You didn't mention your vehicle. You didn't mention where you were. You didn't, like, there's all these little subtle things that you did to make it almost seem acceptable. I said, or downplayed. I said, the truth is, why didn't you just fucking tell her the truth? You know, the 100% honest truth. Well, bro, I don't want to lose her. I said, listen, bro, you're a fucking crackhead. She's not leaving. You know, and as far as your boss is concerned, I said, why don't you just call him up and tell him the truth well because you know bro he's gonna fire me that's he's fired you anyway he fired him anyway right it's like what does it matter now you're a liar and you got fired and you're right and then same thing when he was uh the last time this happened i drove him to the

i drove him to um uh to not the cell you know no it was Salvation Army i drove him to Salvation Army because he was asking him if he could stay here I said no because why I just heard you on the phone telling your girlfriend you drank too much and your car was here but guess what that's not what happened at all your car's with the fucking drug dealer right now that you owe $400 to and it and it was crack like and he's like no it was just drinking I was just drunk let me explain something you don't know the $400 to a drug dealer because you got drunk and disappeared for two days you ran it up on a bill and gave him your car as collateral I said you're lying to her you're lying to me you're lying to your sister you're lying to fucking everybody i said as long as you keep telling these lies or these subtle

lies you will continue to be a drug at it because you cannot be honest with yourself i said what you need to do is start from this point right here i'm a fucking scumbag and i need to change i can't you cannot continue to behave like a scumbag and not expect to end up in the same fucking spot yeah you know and lying is a huge part of that i i say stuff that is detrimental to me all the time. I own up to shit all the time because it's those little subtle lies that build up and build up and build up

and make things acceptable. And before you know it, you fooled yourself into thinking that you can get away with things. And the next thing, you know, you're committing grime and you're doing all kinds of shit. Yep. You know? So, but I think exactly what you're saying.

I think that the only true people I know that have ever really beaten addiction are super honest. like like to their own detriment just that they'll say moral issue it's a software problem not a hardware problem yeah you if you get people clean and sober i don't care if you put if i'm a drug addict and you put me in jail and i'm going to sell by myself and there's no drugs and i'm there for a year what am i clean and sober yeah the day i get out i go straight to floccos to pick up because i haven't changed matter of fact i'm probably worse i'm writing eight different girls

making them all the same promises and none of which i intend on keeping i'm calling home to my family and at the end of the phone call telling them that I love them. Oh, by the way, don't forget to send the money, but the money's not for anything other than a mailout for drugs. I'm manipulating people even when I'm incarcerated. Drugs have nothing to do with that. Drugs are never the problem. Ever, our behaviors are.

We become such parasites tearing at the fabric of our families, the fabric of our communities, street urchants out there committing crimes, petty shit, or dealing dope or whatever the hell we're doing. You know what I mean? if we won't change those behaviors we'll use every time i have a question for you you know what the the the art app program is in federal prison i've heard it we've had people here that have come here through the federal system that couldn't come here because they wanted to do the art app program oh okay um i am i i did art app uh twice you know what they almost never talk about in art app drugs yeah it's it's complete behavior um you know modification or whatever you want to

however you want to you know label it um and it all they do is talk about thinking errors and and and and you know all of you know and and all these different things and i i mean i i i just remember thinking of myself like this is insane like these guys this is not a drug program at all but i mean you realize in there well yeah that's because drugs isn't really the problem not the problem you know like they call it art app yeah but it's got nothing to do it well you know they call it you know whatever a drug abuse what is it yeah uh it's a residential drug abuse program or something like that but you really never talk about drugs right yeah that's good because it just isn't the issue who gives a shit about the physiological inflammation

implications of methamphetamine on the pituitary gland you're not going to tell us anything in the classroom we don't already know let's talk about the fact that i'm a habitual liar and have been for three decades let's talk about the fact that i'm a drug dealer and i'm a drug dealer and i I'm killing people, selling them drugs. They could take it home and they could drop some and their kids could pick it up. And I'm a scumbag for doing it. Let's talk about the fact that I'm violent. I'm stabbing people, right?

They're only 80 bucks. Let's talk about the fact that I'm putting people in the trunks of their car and driving them down the freeway and leaving them behind a road. Let's talk about those behaviors because that's the shit that has to change. Yeah, it's, yeah, no, I agree. You know, it's amazing, too, is the people that run the program, well, like the one, one doctor that read like listen that she you could walk in sit in her office and she knew everything about you like she you know they're categorizing the behavior who you are your personality type everything knew it was just amazing how she was amazing she was she was

an amazing uh doctor um you know i i always tell i've interviewed a bunch of other guys you know obviously that have been to prison and uh actually almost always we understand up talking about how I think everybody should have to take I remember the other day I said I go I don't think they should release you until you've passed the program like everybody should have to take that program whether they have a drug addiction problem or not because you would learn so much about yourself I'm not saying it's going to cure you but it it sure as hell is going to slow that recidivism rate you know lower it I'm sustained you know if I had my wake and I share a thought with If I had my way, right, when you get in court, if I ever run for politics or get involved in that,

and I've had some people ask, you should do this, you should do this, when you go to prison, there's no letters, there's no phone calls, there's no visits, none of that, ever. For a long time, you have to earn it because what we're doing now in jails and prisons is we're making it so easy for people, so easy. Doing time is easy. When I'm in prison and I've got no letters from the outside, I have nobody to call and lie to, I have nobody to manipulate. I have none of those things going on, right? It makes doing time really hard. Well, guess what happens? I don't want to go back.

But when I'm in jail or prison and I'm getting letters and I'm getting visits and I'm getting phone calls and I'm getting quarterly package and I have a TV in myself, doing time becomes easy, I'm telling you we're doing it wrong. Now, if you've got a long time to do and you've been in prison for a couple years and you're taking classes and you're. You're getting certificates and you're passing those classes and you're showing signs. You've earned the right to call home. You've earned the right to get letters. You've earned the right to do this. You've earned the right. But we're giving, look at California.

75% of the population in California are gang members. In my opinion, if you are an active gang member, active gang member, you're not working. All you're doing is running the streets and terrorize in the neighborhood. Every active gang member should be in prison. Now, when that active gang member says, you know what? I'm dropping out. I want to change. Now let's find him some help.

But as long as you are an active gang member, you shouldn't be allowed on the street. And if you're an active gang member on the inside, you know, it's fascinating in California when you're doing time for a lot of like the Soudaños and Nortenos and Bloods and Chris, but particularly the Hispanic gang members, it's a right of passage.

Yeah. Family expects you to go to prison and then they celebrate you paroling. You are celebrated as if you graduated from college. They get quarterly packages. They get money sent in. They've got all their family coming to visit them. as if they're doing something productive,

why the hell should we allow that to happen? I would change the entire system, but, you know, who am I? You know what's funny? My girlfriend, her brother was incarcerated. He's constantly in and out. Listen, tablets, watching movies, playing video games. Can you send me, you know, can you send me like 10 bucks? Why, I don't want to watch a couple movies.

and it's like, what do you mean? You're watching movies. You're playing video games. But wait, wait, wait. Let's make it even better. You have a grown adult 40 years old who made the decisions to put them in prison asking another grown adult who's working their ass off

to support themselves to support me my bad decision. Yeah. We shouldn't be allowed. We shouldn't be able to manipulate and exploit our family members and friends to take care of us from we're making bad decisions. Because here's the problem. Matt, there is a difference. between making a mistake and conscious decisions to do the wrong thing.

If I forget to set my alarm tonight on my phone and I wake up early, that's a mistake. If you and I are driving down the street and we're having a spirited conversation, I happen to have a lot of those and I blow the light, it's a mistake. When I make a conscious decision to deal dope, to run guns and to hurt people, that has calculated, it's thought out. That is not a mistake. I knew what I was doing. We need to deal with that population differently than those who are making mistakes.

people in prison aren't making mistakes or making conscious decisions to do what the hell they want knowing what the consequences are. Yeah, I know I absolutely agree. I'm, you know, God, who was it that was talking the other day? I forget what happened, but I forget what they said. And I just, and I went, what do you, I forget how, what, what they said, but I was like, what are you talking about?

Like, well, yeah, they were supporting their family. And so that's why he did this. And I went, no, no, no. I said if he was a I go right he's a scumbach well I wouldn't say he was a scumbag I go no if he I said a decent human being would have worked an extra job or told his kids I'm sorry you can't get that right now and explain the situation a decent human being would have taken a step back and made the right decision I said I said that's what a decent citizen does I said he chose to be a scumbag and try and steal something and then justified it by saying he was going to give it to his kids or he needed the money for his kids. but he probably didn't even need the money for his kids. Absolutely. You're speaking my language, brother. Right.

Because the truth is, I said, everybody I've ever known, and I've known, listen, I've known 10, 15 people at this point. I probably knew, even at the time when I was locked up, I think I knew, seven or eight guys that had Lamborghinis, I said, do you know that, out of all the guys I knew that had money and women and tons of, and cars and houses and everything that they own? do you know that not one of those guys ever went to prison and laid in his bunk bed and missed his Lamborghini none of them it was always my kids my what have I done my kids my my my mom my sister my this what have I done what I've done I said so you know the truth is is like that your son would rather have you out and broke than in that Lamborghini taking him somewhere yeah or or no oh my dad he was out for two years, went to prison for 10, but he did have a Lamborghini. Yep.

My mom's dating this other guy. He's raising me now. Like, come on, bro. That's not that you're not, you're not doing the right thing. Like, you're not, you're fooling yourself. Absolutely. But, yeah, I definitely think going to prison, it completely changed my entire perspective. And, you know, and I always say that like, like I had, you know, and I had millions.

Like, I had millions of dollars and was miserable before I went to prison and have, been, even in prison, it's happier in prison than I'd ever been on the street with that money. Yep. And I've been happier ever since. You know, not that I wouldn't love some money, but, you know, I'm not turning it down, but I'm not doing things just because of money. Yeah. And listen, I have guys all the time reach out to me and, and suggest this or suggest that.

And I'm like, yeah, bro, I can't even have this conversation. Like, I'm not risking having this conversation with you. You know, I'm not. it's i can't i can't be a part of anything like that or even take part in that discussion or you know i'm sorry good luck you're on your own you're hit and sorry it's over solid boundaries right yeah and i prison definitely listen the judge was very very clear i cannot be in front of that man again i mean i'll never get out of prison yeah so listen and and i know i know guys especially in the federal system you know how i don't know how it is you know every criminal

history point you get it it gets extremely worse for you yep i know i know a guy that got the same sentence i got for about eighty thousand dollars yeah same sentence but he'd been locked up like six times right and you know got to the point where his points are the same but his criminal history level was off the chart and that takes me back to how they got to the 22 years i had a their enhancements one year prison prior when your prison prior one year prison prior one year prison prior when your prison prior and then three-year enhancements for committing the same crimes again. Pretty soon I got 16 years worth of enhancements.

Now we've got to add the new crimes. It's exactly what you're saying. You're adding those enhancements for the criminal history. And was this prior to the three strikes you're out? It was going on at the same time, but I didn't have any violence on my jacket when the three strikes law went into effect in 94. I didn't have violence, didn't get caught for any violence

until I got in the high-speed chase and used the car as the battering ram. Now I've got a weapon. even the loaded firearms I had on me isn't considered a violent offense because they're not used in the commission of a crime. Oh, that must be a California thing in the federal system. Yeah, you get bussed with guns and drugs, even in Utah, it's a federal, yeah, you're going to get federal time. Yeah, well, and they're going to say, they're going to add violence on it. You can't get ARDAP either.

You can't get your off of RADS got involved in my case, but the state and the feds got together because of all of my enhancements, the feds, especially on the last one, could have indicted me federally. It wouldn't have been able to give me nearly as much time as the state. state because of all the enhancements, the state enhancements. Yeah, you got, you got super, super lucky, super lucky. I am grateful, Matt, for being a drug addict. I am grateful for all of the time I spent in prison. When I say grateful, I mean, I mean it. I am grateful that I got incarcerated all the time that I got busted.

I'm grateful for every time I got busted, but I'm more grateful for the stuff I got away with. God has a mysterious way of working. I should be doing life for the things I got away with. And I am grateful I got away with him because I wouldn't be sitting here today. I wouldn't have been able to go to Delancey Street. I wouldn't be doing the work I'm doing today. If every bust didn't happen when it did, if the high-speed chase didn't end the way it did on that day

so that my case was in front of that judge, everything happened exactly how it was supposed to to give me the opportunity to do what I'm doing today. I'm grateful for everything that happened. and nothing bad has ever happened to me. It's all my fault. It's funny you say that because I can't tell you how many times I've had people say, man, I can't believe, you know, that they gave you that much time.

And I used to all, and I always said, no, no, no, no, I gave me that much time. Absolutely. We asked for it. Yeah, absolutely. I gave, that was definitely me. Did you ever go back to the judge? No, thank you for asking. So about three years into my stay in the Lancy Street.

I had stayed beyond my two years, asked to stay a third year. That was before Mimi came down to ask if I'd stay five more years, and I didn't know at the time she wanted me to run the LA facility. But at about three years, we contacted Judge Pacheco, and I got to go into Judge Pachaco's chambers with another student from Delancey Street. We sat down and we had lunch, and we shed a tear. I'll never forget saying thank you to him for the opportunity. And then as a result of all of that, he sent other people to Delancey Street with 15, 18, 18, 20,

years, not because of Dave DeRosher, but because of the success that the decision that he made with me was having. So it's really important to know that my success in staying and doing what I did allowed others the same opportunity. But it was great to have lunch with him. It was great. And the DA, his name was Jim Mendelson. He jumped up and down on a soapbox, did not want me to go to Delancey Street. My cases were going in front of the especially assigned district attorneys for large amounts of drugs and that whole lifestyle. And Judge Mendelsohn did not want me to go.

And I love this story, right? It took me a while to get Judge Mendelsohn's to come visit me in Delancey Street. Much longer than it took for me to see the judge. But at about three and a half, four years, Judge Mendelsohnian came to Delanci Street in Los Angeles and he walked through the front door. He had a cop with him. And he kind of peeks in and he looks back and forth.

I go, Jim, come in. He comes in. We have a three-hour meeting at the end of the end of the time. that meeting we embraced and it was wonderful two weeks later i'm in court i'm taking one of the residents from delanshee street to court and jim mendelson's there and he goes derosher come here i want to talk to you there was a girl when i got busted did my tenure sentence her name is sheila she got busted with me the number of people were involved i got 10 years they all got 16 months and three years but shula mccarthy got her first prison sentence it was 16 months during the time i was down

during those 10 years, she had gone in and out of prison a couple of times. Jim Mendelsohn had her case and was going to give her a life sentence. He pulled me out and he said, Mr. DeRosher, I want to tell you something. Because of our interaction and the success you've had, I'm taking the life sentence off of Sheila and I'm sending her to Delancey Street, suspending her sentence in San Francisco. She stayed in that program for 10 years, Matt. Ten years. Completely transformed her life. I got her her first prison sentence Right My interaction with the DA

Got her out of a life sentence Do Do Um Yeah bro This is I mean Man

I'm trying to think Have you ever seen the Have you ever seen the show Soft White Underbelly? Soft White Underbelly Isn't that Bloister Col its original name?

No, I don't. I don't know. This is no exaggeration. Really? Rooster Colt, the band. Yeah. Their original stage name is Soft White Underbelly. Oh, really?

I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, there's a, there's a, there's a guy named Mark, I want to say Leda. Mark Lada in, uh, in L.A. His studio is on, um, Skid Row. And he interviews people. if you look him up on YouTube, it's called soft white underbelly.

He interviews drug addicts, criminals, and I mean, we're talking, homeless people, prostitutes, pimps, the whole thing. Yeah.

You know, he interviewed me. He's interviewed a couple other guys that are like, you know, criminals, but 99% of it is homeless people,

drug addicts, pimps, prostitutes, that sort of thing. I mean, I feel like he could, and by the way, the quality, like he's a professional photographer, and he's basically on a mission to like change. He's a super interesting guy. One, you would probably be amazing to be interviewed in general. But I almost feel like there's something, like he'll travel. He travels places.

I almost feel like there's something he could do. his view his stuff gets millions i mean some of his stuff has 20 million 10 million 15 million mine got a one and a half million you know and i i feel like if you talk to him or reached out to him if not your story in general the people that are at your facility because just because of what a dramatic um you know change you're making that that i think i feel like he could do something to really have a conversation with him he's he's he's and listen he is he was a professional photographer for like 30 years he's done everything from apple to Nike he's like their their main guy he's amazing and then he retired you know he's I'm sure he's a multi-millionaire

he retired and said you know what I'm going to do the rest of my life this is what I'm doing and the program and it's amazing I can't stand to watch watch them because I mean we're talking about you know you're talking about heroin addicts and and and and but it's so artistically done it's it's phenomenal and I think if you looked at it and if you if you look at his channel and if you like it let me know and I can get I can get you in touch with him okay because I know there's I know that he could um you could probably work on something with him yeah um just to to put it in a way that's super polished and what he does is he takes these battered people and he he makes them um

he makes their stories really come alive and just a very brief interview you really have to check it out if you like the interview do me a favor subscribe to my channel hit the bell so you get notified leave a link in the description um let's leave a link in the description leave a comment hit the bell hit the thumb share the video I'm going to leave the website uh Dave's website in the description if you want to donate any um Any funds to his program. I think it's, I think it's a great, I think it's amazing. I think he's got an amazing story. And I think what he's doing is amazing. Thanks for watching this whole thing. Because I think it's a, it's just an amazing. I think what he's doing is amazing.

So I appreciate you guys watching. Thank you very much. See you.