Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - FBI AGENT EXPOSES CORRUPTION

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Jim DiOrio shares insane stories as an FBI agent. Jim's Linking: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimdiorio-j3Jim's Website: https://www.j3-global.comEveryday spy: https://everydayspy.com/?homepage=cYoutube Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/EverydaySpyFollow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrimeDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

He's the highest paid chief still. And he's taking freebies. The average person, they have an image and a behavior model of what they think a criminal is. But the truth is, most of them are connet. One guy goes, get on the ground. I'm hit. Richie, you took $350,000 from the mitermans. And he just goes, no way, I took $180.

Oh, my God. I go, you didn't get the money? He's like, no, I didn't get the money. I was so we're terrified. One really odd. act of kindness on my part, not seven years off my sentence. When I was a junior in high school, I got a call from the Army baseball coach, and that was big.

So I went up and did the visit and kind of fell in love, and it solidified over the summer. The following summer I went down. My brother was in the military. He was a dentist in the Army at Fort Bragg, and I went down and spent a week with him. He introduced me to some grads, West Point grads. And I was like, yeah, I think I could do this. And that's what happened. Were you thinking career?

You know, I never really, honestly, I don't think I went either way. I don't think I thought either way. I was kind of just like, hey, whatever happens happens. Let me see how this works out. I was fortunate. I had a nice run. I was a field artillery officer at first. And then I branch transferred over in something called Civil Affairs, which is the Army, basically the Army's intel on the special operations side. A lot of research, a lot of due diligence, a lot of like hearts and minds, they call it. So spending time in a foreign country to kind of see what that looked like and what the need was. In order to kind of move forward. So I graduated in 86 from West Point and got out of the Army in 94. So a bunch of time in between. So spent the first three kind of doing the artillery side, which is cool. It's a combat arms mission, firing a lot of big rounds, big cannons downrange, blowing things up. And then the civil affairs side came a little bit later. So that kind of started to get me interested in the future career path, which was,

maybe the CIA, maybe the FBI, maybe another intel community, maybe NSA or D&I, whatever that would look like. So I did get an opportunity to do both, a little bit of both on a cross. So the Army and the agency kind of worked together at a time on civil affairs teams. So I did a bunch of that, which was cool. And then the FBI recruited me. And it was funny story. They were like, hey, we'd really like you to come over to the FBI.

And I was like, I really appreciate it. thank you so much. And the guy said, hey, man, this isn't a party invitation. You can't RSVP, no. Right. I was like, oh, what do I do? You know, I don't want to do that. He goes, oh, you can resign. I'm sitting here like this. I'm just like, is there any more information? He goes, no. Resign from what? The military? Just get out of the military. So it's like, get out of the agency. We're taking you from here. Yeah. And you're now being, you're now being enveloped by the FBI. Yeah. And if you don't want to, you quit. That's it. If you don't want to, you know, you're kind of out.

What if I want to stay in the military? Well, you could have done. I could have done that, but I think I had burned some bridges along the way with that port. Go ahead. So, so I kind of was like, okay, I understand the opportunity is here. It was something that I wanted to do, but I was hoping that I had a little bit more of a choice. Right. So I was hoping that.

I was the one that was going to make that decision. You know, that didn't really happen. I had a run during the time where I thought about corporate America. Let me go an interview and see what that looks like. So I did some interviews with some pharmaceutical companies and some insurance companies. And I would just sit and say, holy shit, I can't, I just can't see myself doing this. You know, it's just not going to work for me. I'm not going to be happy.

I'm not going to be productive. I'm not going to be a good husband, father, whatever that looked like. So I wind up making a great. great choice and staying in the bureau. So you go to you go to Quantico, right? Go to Quantico. Do you? Yeah. 20 weeks when I went through. So pretty good training. The funny thing is coming out of like West Point and coming out of the Army, one of my buddies who had gone, he had gone through a couple, maybe a year before me. And he said, oh, dude, what do you see? Like, it's totally professional. Like, what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, you know, they actually come out to your car when you

pull up, they carry your stuff to your room. Was he lying? They do this stuff. So that's what I was like, oh, yeah, you know, he says, yeah, they're like, it's crazy. Cater to you. So I'm like, okay, so I pull up in front and out comes a bunch of people and they have like hotel type racks. Put all my stuff on, hey, Mr. Diario, how are you welcome? I thought it was a joke. No, I did too. And then I was still like, did he set this up? I thought you were going to go. Is somebody can get my stuff? They were get the fuck out of here. That's what I thought too. And it never got. Harder than that.

And now some of the people that I went through with, like, it's the hardest thing they ever did, right? And, you know, the big part of it is shooting, right? So getting the handgun, a lot of people had not ever touched a gun, which sometimes is better. So we had, we actually had a couple people that said, oh, like, first three days they show you these awful videos of gun violence. And it's awful. And it's shocking. And if you haven't seen it before, which I had seen a lot of it before, live and in person, it's shocking.

And we had a couple of people just say, hey, I don't want to do this. Like, I can't carry a gun. I thought I could. Now's the best. You should have thought about that early. But I don't feel like could do that anymore. Or, you know, carry a gun every day

and have the chance that this could happen. And so we're like, oh, and the instructors were like, really? Okay. You know, so then, so Quantico was, was, I'd say, half classroom, a quarter probably shooting, and then a quarter practical exercises.

So you go out to this thing called Hogan's Alley and you'd practice out of making a rest. And the role players were great. You know, role players would act like, oh, yeah, you know, right. I'm having to, you know, you have to figure out what to do right, what to do wrong. There was like a code red call in case somebody was hurting somebody else by accident. You know, when you're putting handcuffs on, like, whoa, code red. You know, you're going to rip my shoulder out. Don't do it that way.

I thought it was great. The interview and interrogation work was fantastic. The instructors we had were really good. And then that just improved over time. I had done some of that in the military. So I was, you know, I don't think I was formally trained in the military. You kind of just pick it up with a lot of the interrogation work that we did in civil affairs. Right.

But then all of a sudden, you realize, wow, these guys are adding to what I already know and what I already had in some of the different things. And most of it is just very, it's technique-based training at Quantico that is elicits. the responses that you kind of think that you should get. You know, so you're eliciting responses based on evidence and predication that you already have, you know, which is important. You know,

it's important to also stay focused. I just saw that. We were talking about this, but poor interrogation, that American nightmare, that Netflix series. Oh, yeah. About the couple and everything that happened.

And the FBI agent that did the polygraph. You failed. You failed. You know, and then he goes on just to threaten. Yeah. As opposed to, first off, parameterizing the polygraph itself by getting a good interview and a good interview up front so that you could easily tell whether or not the guy's going to lie pretty quickly if certain things don't match up.

Right. So poorly done. You know, so poorly done. The FBI in general in that case, so poorly done. And we're getting a lot more of that. But I thought Quantico, in my time in 98, going through, I, I saw. still felt like we were the knights in shining armor that would come in and do things the right way and work hard and be dedicated and committed to the job and, you know, get results

based on evidence, based on truth of that evidence, based on corroboration on that evidence, not be weaponized like the Bureau is today with some of the bozos that have, are there and have been there. Jim Comey being number one bozo, you know, really destroyed the Bureau. I mean, I came in under Louis Free, just an amazing man, great person, and an honest, honest to goodness, true FBI agent at heart. He was an FBI agent, you know, he's the only director since Hoover that, and before or since, that has, was an agent and then came, you know, didn't really come up the ranks. I mean, he was appointed after the fact of being a federal judge and after being a prosecutor. But, um, Bob Mueller, I mean, is what he was.

You know, he was, he was an admin guy. So he, we went from the FBI to the FBI under him, federal bureau of administration. And we saw that during the whole Russia probe. Former U.S. attorney. Former U.S. attorney, smart guy, surrounded himself with smart people, had the, the ability, the innate ability to ask the one question that you were never prepared for. So you would go in and do a briefing. And I had a chance to brief him several times. You know, you would go through all your notes and just prep hard and think to yourself like, man, I think I got everything.

I just hope he doesn't ask this one question because I really don't have an answer for it. And I don't really know how I'm going to get an answer between now and the briefing. You'd sit down and go through your briefing and he'd ask that question. All right. Every fucking time. So I felt like he was great for the boo. And then when we got Comey started out hot and, you know, pretty good for the first month or so calling people. Congratulations. It's good to know you, whatever you need, and then just turned into a complete, you know, boob, you know, just became, became different for the Bureau than what we actually need it.

Like, the Bureau's job is to, is to investigate, is to provide evidence, not to make decisions on prosecution. Right. But don't do that. We have a voice at the table, you know, when you're sitting with a federal prosecutor and you want, you know, hey, look, I think the, you know, I think this guy did or didn't do it based on the evidence. You have that right, but they have the right to charge, and they're going to do that. This guy just jumped out and said, yeah, I'm going to charge. You know, we're not charging Secretary Clinton. We're not charging this one. We're not charging that one.

You know, Hillary Clinton case is the one that's out there in the public. Yeah. There's other cases that he did that on. Step back into his role as he was another U.S. attorney out on the West Coast, stepped out on, you know, kind of back into that world instead of just saying, yeah, we don't really have the responsibility to provide process. prosecutorial decisions. That's up to, you know, the attorney general. It's up to Loretta Loretta Lynch at the time. So, well, back to like when you left Quantico, where were you assigned? So I went, originally went to New Jersey. And then after 9-11, I went, I spent a ton of time overseas.

So doing some, doing a lot of interrogation work, doing a lot of terrorism work, doing a lot of work down in Kitmo, those kinds of, those kinds of things. They took my military experience and kind of exploited it. I won't say exploits the wrong word, but kind of utilized it in order to kind of get better results at the time. And I was placed in a better spot. So when I first came in, you know, I was talking about those cases, the public corruption cases, the fun type things, the fun, you know, dealings with different people and different

characters in New Jersey, which is where I was from. So it was really interesting. So, oh, my God, that guy. Oh, wow. Okay. And then, and then obviously the world changed after 9-11. So we became a different organization. Interestingly enough, pre-9-11, the agents that weren't, the broken and misfit toys of the FBI's agent population were sent to terrorism. Okay. So is it any wonder? why those buildings went down? Not really. Afterwards, the more, I think, experienced and more worldly experienced agents went into the terrorism role. Right. Whether that be our time, you know, traveling a little bit to take a look at what was still in existence out there in the world or just kind of getting a sense for where you were. So I spent more time

in D.C., spent more time in New York. I spent some time in Texas, I spent some time in California, spent some time, you know, out of the country. So one, I told you I wrote a, that Robert Mueller, prosecuted one of my, my buddy. I think you did. You did say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And so before you leave, I'm going to give you his book. Okay.

I actually have a book on him. and I have an abridgment, so I'll give you both. Okay. Like the book, the true crime book, is like what happened, and the prosecution's a part of it. You know what I'm saying? But the abridgment is basically, you know, 80% of it is the prosecution, like 20% to set up and then the prosecution, whereas the book, it's probably more like 60% what was happening with him, you know, and then probably 40% the prosecution. So, but, yeah, but you know, I don't know if you're a big reader. or not, but it's, it's pretty, I think the actual book is, is more fun because I don't find

the prosecution all that amazing, but the documentation that I have is just over the top. Amazing. And there's so much documentation. I actually have a website dedicated to it that where you can actually go, anybody who's like, well, that doesn't make sense. Okay, well, here, I'll show you the document. You go to this website. You'll find it. Yeah, boom, here it is. Exhibit 12, 17, you know, boom, right there. And you can read the transcripts. It's, It's insane. Awesome. But I was going to say, why, why you say they sent these guys like the misfit toy?

Like, was it because the Bureau at that time didn't feel like, like terrorism was a, that's exactly right. They felt pretty insulated. That's pretty good. That's exactly right. You know, if you think about even like, even the mindset pre-9-11, and there were obviously hijackings that happened around the world throughout, but none of them, you might have had a couple. I know there was the one where you had a couple.

couple of, um, that one Navy enlisted guy was shot and killed and dumped out the side of the plane. Right. Pilot had, you know, gun held to his, all those things that happened. It never ended in anything that looked like that. I was going to say even, even when they try to take the, the, the World Trade Center down the first time. Yeah, like, boom. You had, you had, everything went their way. Exactly. It shook the building. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, we're good. Yeah, we're good. Suckers. Even when everything goes their way, they can't, they can't do anything real damage. And that's exactly right. You know, and you know, you think about the memo, right? So the famous memo, the now famous memo that was written

and given to a boss in New York, was, there's, there's Middle Eastern men of war fighting age who are going to flight school and they're not interested in taking off or landing. They just want to know how to fly the plane. And this dude, who I know wrote 65-page memo that outlined all the reasons why he thought that wasn't really fantastic. And he popped it into a file, you know, a terrorism-based file. But he also presented it to several of the upper management guys in New York. And they just were like, you know, we don't really see anything there. You know, what's fucked up about that is that to me, that's the kind of guy you go to and you promote him and you push him and you help him along the square.

But what typically happens is you made us look bad and they actually fucking punish you. Absolutely. And that's exactly what happened to him. And it became, it was just part of the, the mindset at the time was like, you know what, another terrorism fucking unhappy, you know. Well, I'm saying even after 9-11, you would think, hey, oh, my God, get this guy in here. Let's great job. You're amazing. Put him in this position.

He's, no, typically they're like. No, they jerk him around and run him out. And that's exactly what happened. Don't make us look bad. You know, there was other things. There were other documents that talked about that. There were other things that happened before. leading up to. I mean, you know, you watch the Looming Tower, you watch John O'Neill, who I knew

personally, great guy. They destroy him in there, his personality of who he was. That's not who he was in any way, you know, make him look like he couldn't keep his money in his pocket. You know, he's spending bureau money illegally. He was running around womanizing and booze. Not, not, you know, not the case. Not the case. You know what bothers me about that is that even if that's true. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So what? He was on top of the world. He was doing what he was supposed to be doing it's like a prostitute seeing a murder you know oh she's a prostitute she's this she's that does that mean she didn't see the murder does that mean does that mean like look nobody's perfect you're going to be able to tear apart anybody and it's sometimes it's worse if you it's a one guy

that you can't find anything on that's the guy that 10 years later you find out he's got four sex slaves chained up in the basement I'd rather know up front like okay he's got some issues here's his issues, great. Let's compartmentalize those. He's great at this. Let's run for it. Let's move forward. And they made him look broken so that his interaction with agencies, interaction with national security, NSA looked like he was crazy. Right. So they had to come up with a justification for why those relationships were poor. Well, it was crazy John O'Neill. You know, spending too much money, spending, you know, possibly being on the take is the way, you know, being a womanizer, none of that was true. But even if it were, it had nothing to do with why people

weren't talking. Right. You know, why people weren't discussing issues like that together, because it was an ego trip. So, you know. So you were at Guantanaman? Guantan. Yes. Yeah. So can you say it? Guantanamo. One of my best buddies was in charge of the operation there. So one of my West Point buddies, who then became an agent. And I would go down to help. Okay. And interesting work. You know, interesting work. I mean, the interrogation by in and of itself is just interesting work. You know, it's a lot of mirroring. It's a lot of just minimizing. It's a lot of waterboarding. Nah, not so much. Not so much. That's more, that's a better. Is that Bustamante's? There's some better techniques. Let's put it that way. Yeah, I was going to say, like, you start

torturing me. I'm going to say whatever you want me to say. Like, that doesn't, I would think any, any interrogator would be like, look, you're going to get way better results this way. These guys are going to start saying anything to get out of this situation if you're torturing someone. That's right. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, I think, for me, I go back to my army times, you know, some of the things that were a little bit more quickly responsive. Right. You know, the collarbone is a famous one.

And I've talked about this before. And I got a great story about the collarbone after. But so when I was, I was a terrible high school wrestler, like terrible, but I would cheat. So if I needed to try to turn a guy on his back, I'd grab his collar, grab right here. Right. And it hurts. And you could break it. So most guys.

would roll over and then they would beat the shit out of me in the second and third period. But at least I got them on their back for a moment. That was the greatest, greatest 500 wrestler in New Jersey High School wrestling history. And they all ended the same way, either me getting thrown or by some miracle I threw them. So I utilize that down the line,

realizing that that's a lot of pressure and you can actually do some damage. You can actually break it and it hurts. And you can play with it a little bit like a tooth. That's the most broken bone. Most broken bone and the most painful, they say. I've never broken one, thank God. I haven't broken my own.

I've broken other people. So we utilize that in the military a little bit because it's, you know, it's humane, for lack of better term. You're not pulling somebody's teeth or cutting them or doing some of those other things. So that's one of the techniques that I always kind of went back to.

And I may or may not have carried that over into the Bureau. Right. So funny story, and it works. I mean, it gets immediate response. It's long lasting. right so I can keep it open it bleeds a little bit and it you can pull it out of the skin see to me like you bring me like apple pie and a fountain soda and you know that I'm gonna tell you whatever you want and you see that from people you know that right away but some of these guys

are not like that the first thing I want to tell you is that hey I'm I'm gonna kill you right you're like well you never going to get out of where you are but thank you though thank you so much you know I appreciate yeah we appreciate the yeah let me break that collarbone let's just go straight to it Yeah. So the best story about this is, I'm at a lunch with one of my high school buddies is a bunch of local police officers. And he says, hey, you guys, same thing. You guys waterboard? I'm like, we really don't. You know, we more do. And I tell him about the collarbone. And he goes, oh, shit, I remember you doing that in high school. I'm like, yeah. And he said, you did it to me. Like, you were fooling around with me one time. It hurt like hell. So we start

talking. And I tell him, hey, here's why. Here's what it does. Here's the results and whatever. So he says, oh, you know what? And this guy's one of those guys. Frankl he's a really good dude he's one of these guys that he knows four or five famous people because he did QVC he made his money QVC selling supplements to the stars okay so he's done like all the Kim Kardashian shit he's done Sylvester Stallone stuff any famous person who has brought a supplement to the market has gone through Keith who's gotten through his company VitaQuest it's called it's up in northern New Jersey and Keith's an interesting bird so he says you know, Stallone's filming

last blood, the last version of his Rambo series. He said, you know, he was just asking for like a technique. They filmed something and he didn't like it and I said, okay, no problem. He goes, I'm going to have him call you and I'm like, bullshit, you know, but I didn't say anything. I said, sure, anytime. So I'm driving

home like probably a week later and Keith's like, hey, he calls me like three or four times, Keith and I'm like, I said to my wife and I'm like, I don't really want to. I don't want to and talk to Keith. Like, it's too late. You know, he's drunk and or whatever, but I love him. I said, I got to pick this up. There might be an emergency. So I pick it up. He goes, hey, I got somebody here. They want to talk to you about what we were talking about, that whole collarbone thing. So I'm like, okay, okay. And he's like, you'll know who it is. All of a sudden,

on comes, hey, Jimmy. You know, I'm like, oh, my God. I didn't know what to say. So I said, hey, I loved you and Rocky. He's like, oh, thank you. It was a terrible lot. But I'm like, I really love you in Rocky. So he says, tell me about it. So we talk for like 20 minutes. Right. And I explained the whole thing to him. him. This is what it would do? I said, what did you do? What's the scene look like now? And he said, well, what it is is my stepdaughter is missing. And I need to find out where she is. She got taken over the border into Mexico. And I want to make somebody tell me what, you know, where she is. And I said, well, what did you film? He said, well, we filmed like cutting his ear off. And I said,

well, that's not going to really, it's going to bleed a lot, but it's not going to cause any pain. So if you want to be realistic, do this collarbone thing. Well, he took it to a new level, but it's in the movie. And he basically takes, he takes his combat knife, he breaks the collarbone, he pulls it out, and he's playing with it. And then he stabs the guy in the leg, too. We got to do, listen, we have to do a short with the scene. Yes. Come on.

So it's a great scene, and he, the guy gives up the information. So I thought to myself, man, that, that's now out there. Right. And it was, it was a very, it's a very effective. If it were to have happened overseas somewhere, it's a very effective method. Did you tell Stallone, I'll send you an invoice? I did not. I, you know, I thought about that.

I was promised not by, not by him, but Keith, oh, when it premieres, you'll be invited. And I'm like, that never, that never happened. And then he's like, oh, he wants to go out to dinner. That never happened. So whatever. But it was fun, the 20 minutes of talking to. Sylvester Stallone, who's a really, he's a nice guy. And he said, you know, I don't have a lot of friends.

So he said, oh, he goes, that's why I'm friends with Keith. Right. The bar is low. Yeah. So that, I think that's, that, like, techniques. And really, you're looking to get information from people that they really don't want to tell you at all. It's the one thing that we all have that, holy shit, you know, if I got, if somebody found this out, I got a problem.

Right. In many ways. You know, it could destroy my life in many ways. So I think that's the critical portion of interrogation. And that's something that Quantico did a really good job teaching. And then however you decided to develop that, it fit into my narrative because of the military. I was like, oh, wow, okay, that's something additional that I can kind of use in order to get people to kind of respond in a different way. You know, one of the best ones I think I ever had was very few words.

It was with a serial bank robber out of New Jersey. He had done a bunch of cases. and we had caught him in a small Jersey Shore town. And we had him in the police department. Right. It was like a whole thing. It was getting more violent. He was a little bit crazy.

You know, he had shot some people up in North Jersey. Anyway, he's sitting in there, and he's just a large African-American dude. And he's like, he ain't going to talk. So they were going at him. You know, local police was doing a great job. They were trying to go at him, like, you know, chronologically, like, where were? you would. And the guy's just like, I, you know, I'm not talking. You know, I'm not going to say anything. Never engaged an attorney, but he's like, I just don't have time. You know, I didn't do anything. You guys have no proof, whatever. So I said, let me just, let me have a shot. What I feel like you walk in, sit down and stay with the guy for 30 seconds. He goes, okay, listen, man. No, no, no, no. It was about three and a half hours. Oh, okay. So walk in there and, you know, just kind of sit down. And he's like, are you an attorney? I'm like, I'm not. You know, so he's, what are you doing here? So I said, nothing. I'm just, watching i have to watch you you know and i just everything he did i did like if he went if he

if he nodded or he put his shoulders up i would just be like no and just annoying the shit i annoyed the shit out of him finally said what do i need to do to get the fuck out of here right they said did you do this thing in manisquin did you do the bank over here he said yeah i said any others he said no so i said all right he's you got you got one right and next thing you know within they they picked it up and did a better job you know and down the line they got four or five more jobs but it was just basically just having the patience to not say a fucking thing just to sit stare at this dude you know so yeah are you an attorney no okay some people he just wanted out so he's like whatever yeah I did it you know um I did what I did get me out this little room get me out of

the room yeah I got to get out I can't I'm freaking out send me to prison so I can walk the yard hang out with the guy and that's what he did yeah and He was a violent, it wound up being a violent guy. I mean, he did some, did some shootings based on bank robberies up in North Jersey and, you know, just kind of made sense. So I think those things, I gained patience as I got a little bit older as I had my army time kind of went away. And then the bureau time kicked in. I felt like I definitely got more patient with my interrogation work. And that's key.

You know what I'm going to fuck up about the bank robbers is that I don't think that the guys that go in with a gun, and scare the crap out of everybody and put everybody on the ground and do I don't think they get any more money than the guy that walks in with the note and even if they do that the the you know the um the guy that walks in gives them the note can do nine banks 10 15 banks with a note and get three years yeah the guy that walks in with a gun that's it but you're getting 15 years if you do one bank yep you're done you put like gun out it's over it's over right so it doesn't matter if you use it, or if it's fake or real. Yeah, I was just like, well, well, it wasn't even fake. You might as well have brought, you might as well brought a real one because you're getting charged with it. Absolutely. We had a dude throw a fake grenade around his neck.

Yeah, that's a bad, that's a bad situation. And he just, like, if you don't give him any money, I'm going to let this lose. Probably thought he was very clever. Yeah. It's like, it's not a gun. Yeah. That's what he said. Like, it's not a gun.

Yeah. Don't keep, well, I would have killed myself too, but it was fake. It doesn't matter. you wouldn't. If you really were going to do that, you would have pulled the pin on a real job, but you pulled the pin on a 26-year-old girl at a local bank and scared, you know, scared her to literally almost scared her to death. Yeah. And you're not thinking that you have exposure, just like if you carried a gun in, because these guys figure it out. They know, you know, okay, don't bring this, do a note, just like you said, you get the money, you get

four or five thousand dollars, you don't get any die pack shit because it's not that much money. drawer and you know you're not asking for the entire drawer the entire bank you're in and out you make your money you get out of there some dudes are caught we i mean the local pds don't catch they've caught guys like on their way out of the bed like to go home after they rob it they go home to buy the kid something something the kid needed with 1300 bucks yeah and they just put them in a car and be like okay yeah i i had a buddy and um this guy would be great on the podcast he was nonstop I mean, annoying to after a while, but for probably two hours, he'd be hilarious. And drug addict, like heroin, and one day he's sitting at a counter at like a Starbucks

or something. It's like one of the counties, you know, it's a counter that was all windows, and you're looking out of the street, and I noticed that there's a bank over on the corner. He said, I'm sitting there, I'm drinking, I'm thinking, I'm about to be evicted. I don't know, I'm getting sick. I need heroin I don't have any money my girlfriend has left me

my like he's just going through everything and he thought I think I can rob that bank he's like there's no guard in that bank there's nobody and he said a little tiny bank and he said I sat there for a minute I went now they'll recognize me

he said they'll get me on the cameras he goes a baseball cap and he said so I thought that's what I need a baseball cap he was at about 10 15 bucks he said so i go and i walk across the street to like to like get a 7-11 yeah gets a baseball cup walks down the street but there's another shirt on or something walks he's i kind of push the door open so i don't touch anything walk over give her a note he's i knew not to threaten her so i just said give me the money and everything will be okay he was and she took the note and

read it and went to take it and i went no and he said he said come on and she was like okay she gave him, I forget, he got like, like, you know, I was sort of the average bank robber gets about $3,500. And he got like $3,500. You know, he got about that. And she gave it to him. And she, and she said something like, do you want me to go in the other drawer? He was thinking, he said, I thought, I bet you there's like something in that drawer. Like he's like, no, he's like, he's like, look to me like a lot of money that she just gave me. He's like, so give me the and I was like, nope, put it in my pocket, turn around, walked out the door, fine. He said, two weeks later

went back to the same Starbucks sat there and thought I bet I could rob that bank again crazy right back in robbed it again same technique then he robbed another bank so he robbed three banks robbed the note

same thing note but turns out that in the second bank same bank but the second time he robbed it when he walked out he pushed the door he said you know there was a handle yeah but I touched with my fingers touch the hand but I also touched the thing he said they caught it on the camera they dusted it they had my fingerprints he said they ran the fingerprints because he had been arrested for DUI or something in Florida now he was in like Iowa or something it was like

in the middle of you know like not in Florida so anyway when that money ran out he ended up going back to Florida got clean started selling cars again which is what he was a car salesman started selling cars and he said one day I'm driving down their own I get pulled over to speeding or something no big deal cop runs my uh you know runs his tag uh you runs his name comes back says hey can you get out of the car he's like uh yeah yeah yeah he said get out of the car he said as i'm getting out of the car he's like another cop pulls up another one I thought well this isn't good he said I mean I feel like I 100 he said it's been it's been fucking years like I got away with it they he's he's like look I'm going to put some cuffs up and he's like yeah he's like real polite guy yeah

he's like, he cuffs him up. He's like, boo. And the guy goes, yeah, there's a warrant out for your arrest. He said for bank robbery. And like, whatever, wherever it was, Iowa or something. He's like, oh, damn it. It's the one he touched. Yeah, buddy. And they had it. Yeah. The FBI comes in. They said, look, we got you for, we got you for this one. We got you for this one. We believe you also this one. We got you on this one or this one. We have another one we think you might have done. He's like, yeah, I did that. He said, you know, if you just tell us you did this, like, make this go quick. He said, look, you're probably going to end up with, I don't know. He said, it's up the U.S. But. Well, they consolidate him. You don't have a bad history. You're probably going to end up with about three years. Yeah. Right. Because you didn't threaten anybody. Nobody was scared.

Nobody was, you know. Yep. But yeah, as opposed to somebody who goes to the gun. Yeah. It's like, you're getting, you're getting 10 years. You just show the gun. You're getting 10 years. If you fire it, oh, my God.

Oh, forget. Forget it. I knew a guy that he and his buddy robbed, robbed the bank on campus. They were high school. I mean, they were college. kids, robbed it, and I'm sure you've got about 10,000 of these. But this was funny, though, because this one always killed me because I was in prison when he told me the story, and we're sitting in her cell, and he said, I pulled out the gun.

No, he didn't, they both had, like, BB guns. But they looked real, bro. Yeah. So we pulled him out and we're like, get on the ground, get on the ground. He said, but I know it's a BB gun. Yeah. He's like, my buddy knows it's a BB gun, too, but he's more of an idiot than I am. And he said, he screams, get on the ground, get on the ground.

And he said, people are starting to hunch down, but they're not really. getting on the ground and they don't seem as scared like they're kind of like yeah yeah what's going on yeah he said one guy goes get on the ground and he fires the BB gun it ricochades off the ceiling the wall the ceiling and hits a woman in the in in the in the in the cave this a BB in its ricochet there's got no it's really no juice nothing but he said but it's stunger he's like you should see the photos he's like it's a little weld he's like she goes I'm hit and she falls on the ground he said we he's like I was so scared he's we turned around we ran I go you didn't get the money he's like no I didn't get the money I was so we're terrified oh my god he's like I thought oh my god you shot somebody

bebeed off ricochet a BB into her cat he said I'm running holy shit they're running away so good they're running away and I'm thinking to myself how did you shoot her like yeah yeah one why did you pull the trigger in two she couldn't have been shot and he was like the BB hit her like and he's like you know it doesn't sound like a gun no no it's like a like an air Pop. Hilar. But charged with a guy. Yeah.

Because it's got. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I'm sure he rolled on his buddy. I think he still ended up with like 10 years. But, damn. By the way, he shaved his head. This is what's hilarious.

He said, super smart guy. Yeah. Went straight home. Shaved the head. Shaved his head. Really good while listening to the police. Yeah. What do you think is his, what do you think his, um, his roommate thought?

When he says, my roommate comes in, he was like, man, I, I, you hear the cops. Yeah, something's going on. He's like, yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. He's like, he's like, I've never shaved my head before. He's like, well, he's shaved my head, man. He's like, now everybody, as soon as I go back to school, everybody immediately knows there was a robbery, your head is shaved.

Like, it's you, bro. There's pictures of this person we're looking for. Holy cow. So he was a college kid at the time. Yeah, it was a college kid. Holy shit. I meant he was probably 25 or something like that. Unbelievable.

In Coleman, he'd been locked up a while. Damn. I tell you, like some of those stories. And the Bureau now is. Got no money. No. They don't get any. money for the amount of money that you end up getting

that's why it's become less of an like it's not even a crime issue for the bureau like we don't even work that stuff anymore right just like organized crime you know the mafia went away yeah supposedly ah we're gonna stop you know like these guys are having a field day we're not you know it's like I always tell

the story that summer before and it summer to sharks just came back again this year but before 9-11 there were the reports were that sharks were just fucking eating people up here in Florida it was pretty it was true it was happening right summer of 2001. And all of a sudden, 9-11 hits. And the sharks just don't bite anymore. So the sharks are like, you know, those people are going through a lot. Let's just not fucking bite, you know.

And it's like amazing. It's absolutely amazing when you think about that kind of shit. It's nuts. It's whatever they want. And the same thing with the Bureau. Agenda they want to push. Yeah, that's the way the Bureau manages stuff. Like, the mafia, they're not really doing the same stuff. Nobody, you know, they flip on each other. So even if we get a case, we'll get it quickly resolved. That is not, that is not the truth. You still have your old school guys that do stuff, you know, all the time. And I mean, it's pretty funny to my neighborhood, you know, where I live now, right now, we've got a couple of old school, you know, old school mobsters that live around there. And they, I recognize them. They

recognize me. I was at, I went to, I went to a, I went to a walk in your dog. Oh, dude. It's like, hey, what's going on? What's going on, Tino? How you been? We had, we had, I just had, I was in two things. I was in New York City at a Broadway play this past week. And I sit down on my seat and I look over. And one guy's like, like, my girlfriend says, you know, that guy, I'm like, yeah. You know, I put that guy away. You know, and he wants to come over. I'm like, stay over there for a minute.

No, then afterwards, I met him afterwards. I'm like, don't crawl over people to come see me. Second one is I go to the Bahamas, get off the flight. We're waiting to go through to get passport check or whatever it is when you get in. And there's a guy, he's like, Jimmy, I just got out. I'm like Johnny Balls he's like yeah he goes thank you for being so nice and I said remember my wife I'm like yeah

we all stared at her ass all the way up the stairs you know and you got mad he goes exactly I still get mad and he just like it's so like the people I was with they're like holy shit like can we go we can't go anywhere it's Sam the sheep dog yeah you know and the coyote right yes exactly you know it's just funny

I mean like you and a lot of my a lot of guys who have become really good friends are guys that I locked up. Right. That, you know, turn their life around. And it's pretty cool. Hold on. It's pretty cool to watch it.

Hold on. Do you know who Sam, the sheepdog and the coyote are? I knew it. Disgusting. Okay. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of an amazing, amazing piece to kind of see, you know, see folks around, see them turn their life around, you know, to do their thing. Right. So, you know, good stuff, man.

Yeah, you've done great. That's still early. Um, so let's see how, let's see how this YouTube thing. For me too. For me too. So, so what, what happens after, after you come back from Cuba, right? Yep. And that was off and on, you know, Cuba was like back and forth, a particular, you know, particular times when I was needed per se. Right. Um, so then I start kind of a little bit of a rise in the bureau. So I kind of do a little bit of promotions. What I feel like that phone call is, hey, we need you to come to Guantan. And, you know, does he have too good collarbone still got the collar?

He's still intact? Okay, I'm on my way. I feel like. Has he been damaged before in the collarbone area? Okay, I'll be right down. Yeah, I was a specialist for sure. But yeah, and then just, you know, your normal kind of, your normal bureau rise. Right.

With some other interesting portions of my career. Okay. Which were spent, you know, on several week deployments, I'll call them. doing very specific, you know, kind of missions based on my past. None of that sounds good. Yeah, so based on my military experience, doing some things that we do, you know, that we do. I don't feel like you're, I feel like you're dancing around something. I'm definitely, you're not going to tell me?

I'm definitely the answer. I'm not yet. Okay. At some point, down the line. All right. Off camera. Off camera. For sure.

So what was the next interesting case? So I've had a lot of my stuff. A lot of my leader stuff was based on the interrogation portions that I had worked on. Right. So it became like a development of a case. So, and passed along to our brethren like Mr. Bustamante and the like, or worked together with those folks. So it did a lot of time caking that, gathering the information in the intel side. So that's the beauty of what happened.

It's not the beauty. This sounds terrible. But after 9-11, I think it became. evident to us one-on-one. It was no longer CIA versus FBI or this one versus that one. Right. It was now, do I relate to you, Andy,

or do I relate to you, Edwin, or do I relate to you, Bill, you know, or Danny? Like, how do I relate what I want to actually work something with you? And I want to take my skills, which are investigative purely, and your skills, which are basically asset and intel and source development and bring them together to run a case,

to run it out. I think that was a big portion of what I was doing for those last 10 years of my career. Short the management. That's the problem. I know. My God.

I know. That's the problem. I don't have you here for your personality. I know. Well, kind of you do. But some of those things are still sealed off. So, interestingly enough. I think the big portion for me was what we're doing today together, is really a beautiful kind of metamorphosis of what we did back then together.

So I don't forget. We interviewed an FBI agent. I interviewed it. Kobe just sat there. He didn't contribute at all. So he was, he retired after 25. years because he went in the FBI at 25. Yeah.

So he got out of 50. Yeah. Because he had his 25 in. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great, that's a great move. And he, um, he started a, um, and what is it, P.I service? P.I.

That's what's that right. So he started that and started TikTok, which cracks me up. Wait, what, what's, uh, I think I've seen him on. Yeah, he's, he's really good. I interviewed him, uh, we just released it like a, um, I want to say Greg or Tom or something like that. Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, yeah. I just saw a TikTok of his.

It was really good. So here's what he here, just so that you and. It kind of consults a little bit. Right. You and Bustamante understand. So his strength, which I don't see this in you or Bustamante, is he basically worked for fraud, fraud accounting. So he would go in and do the forensic analysis of the books. Yes.

You know, of course he arrests people. He interviews them. He does the whole thing. But he would go in. He's like, and he does that for companies to this. this day. That's huge. And he comes in and he's like, they're like, we got an issue. And then they look over everything. And then he pinpoints a couple employees. He has a talk with him. He said, typically they'll break down and say, oh my gosh, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he'll go, okay,

he'll write up a report. He sends his FBI. He said, they usually act on it because I've written an entire FBI file for them. And they've got everything laid out. He's doing a criminal referral, basically for, you know, for a client. I mean. So that's somebody, so if you guys have I love to because I think that makes sense. We, we need subject matter experts like that. Right. So Andy and I are the forward facing portion of this thing. Like, hey, meeting clients, meeting potential clients, you know, getting out, doing these events on the weekends and those things. I think a guy like that could really add value.

So, yeah, I'd love to get intro to him. He's in Jacksonville. You know what's funny about him? Oh, so he's right. Yeah, he's right where we're kind of headquartered. The night before he came, he said, hey, listen, I noticed that you wore a black shirt in the last couple interviews. And I went, no, oh, wait.

Sorry, I think it was Gene. He says, I noticed you wear a black shirt in a couple of interviews. I noticed you and the other guy, you and another guy both wore black shirts. And I said, right? He said, you want me to wear a black shirt? I went, well, I don't usually color cordy. I said, it was a coincidence. I said, but yeah, sure, if you want.

I said, I can wear whatever black shirt you want. I'll match up to. I said, sure, fine. And he goes, okay, sounds like a good idea, which I thought was hilarious because nobody's ever asked that. And so then he shows up, we're both wearing a black shirt. I said, you understand that. I said, in the comment section, people are going to roast us. Oh, hell yeah.

And they were, people in the comment sections were just like, oh, how fucking cute. Well, then I won't do that. I want to show. I got a black shirt. No. So, but it was a, but yeah, he's, he's an interesting guy. I would love to meet that guy. Yeah, because that's a huge portion of it.

And you could listen to his, his thing. Yeah. It would help me out. Yeah. Because, you know, listen, listen to the ads. Definitely. But he's, yeah, he's, you can tell he's, and he's worked a bunch of big cases, right? Like, he had a bunch of big cases that he was part of.

Especially in Florida, man, probably a lot of health care stuff. I don't think. Well, no, he was also. He was all over the place. Yeah, yeah, he was in Hawaii. He was in Chicago, Chicago, yeah. You know, Chicago, Hawaii. I think he retired to Florida.

Forget the other place he was at. But yeah, there were several cases where he was, he explains the whole case. He's like, I was not lead on that case. I was this. And, you know, he was always very specific about explaining his role. Like, I was on the team, but you have to understand that the lead guy was, and he kind of breaks it down, but I worked on this portion. Yeah.

Because at some point, you have to say. we don't know what this is. And then he comes back and he says, okay, they're laundering money through this. Yep, here's what they're doing. Yeah, here's what they're doing. No, that'd be fantastic because a lot of the work that we do now. What's funny as he was saying, like on his, the PI part,

he's like, you know, the problem is, he's like what I love to do, which is like the forensic analysis kind of stuff. He said, you don't get a ton of that. He said, and a lot of times it's frustrating because once you go into the company and you do the forensic analysis and you come back and you say, listen, this is what's happening. This is what's happening. this is how they're doing it they're like okay thanks he's like okay i can contact you know the

FBI and they're like no no yeah we're gonna handle it yeah and it's like so nothing's gonna go down fraud they're embarrassed a lot of course you know what i'm thinking too part of part of what we do meaning everyday spy you know meaning and he's company with me now as a subject matter expert guy which is awesome um so getting a chance to do a lot of you know co-hosting and those kinds of things with him. Red teaming is important. So red teaming is awesome. It's a, it's actually a concept that the Army, believe you're not, the Army started back probably after 9-11. And so what it is is going in and showing vulnerabilities to companies. I think Ford Motor Company did it first. Right. And there was some crazy results based on that red teaming. And boost is taken to another level now.

So part of us coming into a company, let's say a client brings us on board, part of, And let's just take this example from Tom Simon, right? So he does forensic accounting for him to come in and kind of teach or show those people that do the books for those companies or that are CFO level or project management level. Hey, here's the things to be looking for, you know, so I'm going to come in and what red teaming is is actually planting information, known information. So, hey, we go to, we go to the CEO, we go to whoever is on the team that's going to lead. this thing for the company, listen, we want to infiltrate your company, and we're going to do

these five things. And we want to see how your employees react. Right. And see who reacts well, so who doesn't react so well. The big thing is we can't, we're not asking you, we don't want you to fire somebody. We don't want you to leave somebody hanging. We want you to actually be able to train them up based on, unless we find something completely criminal. Yeah, yeah. But how can we do that with you guys? Okay. So part of it's forensic, part of it, obviously, cyber penetrations, part of it is just basic physical security. For me, I did a case. My first job ever with my new company was with a big financial firm up in New Jersey, up in Hoboken, Jersey City area, right across from New York City. Right. And they wanted to know how,

where their vulnerabilities are for the CEO. And it started with a big portion. It started with a totally different thing for him. He had an issue where the board was looking to promote him to CEO, but there were some problems in his, you know, in his background, supposedly. Who was planting those problems? Who was kind of, you know, telling the truth, who was going to some rag financial papers and leaking this stuff out? None of it was true. We were able to do that plan it. But now he's like, how do I avoid that shit from happening again? Like, how do I avoid somebody coming in? We had found out that people had been, had access to the office, were stealing paintings, were damaging items in his office.

doing crazy shit. And this is like a major corporation. Like a, it's like, it manages some ridiculous amount of money. It's a head fund. I don't know, a couple hundred billion dollars, whatever the hell it is. Right. 54 partners, everything else. So what I did the first day was, I said, all right, I'm going to just try something.

I'm going to see how good your security is downstairs. Right. I went to the Starbucks, you know, I basically put, I made sure my weapons were all unloaded. I had my weapons on me. Went in, went right up to the security guard who was sitting there supposed to check your driver's license and sign you in just basically said hey how have you been you look great you know hey I'm just going up you know what is oh yeah go ahead so I'm like first step going to the elevator right hit the button go up to 11 this is where his his office is on 11 I walk in I walk up to the girl

walk kind of past her and I'm like how were those bagels I brought in last week and she's like oh my god they were so good whatever just like crazy crazy walk right in into his office open the door take my weapon out, put it to his head and say, we got a problem. Well. And he just was like, holy shit. And so that's red teaming in a nutshell. And that's a lot of what we do now incorporated in other skills. I mean, obviously, Andy brings so much more how to break barriers in your business and

how to get to the next level. But those kinds of things are kind of what I've been brought in to do, the physical security side of the house. You know, how do we take a client and say, here's the way you can protect yourself, Here's the way you can protect your travel, your children. Big portion of it is a lot of people now, especially high net worth, which we work a lot with high net worth, kids going off to college, right? How do they prepare that kid to go off to college and be able to handle, be situationally aware

of things that can happen at college? You know, and there's a million different things if you think about it. Everything from getting robbed at the ATM, you know, to frigging somebody posting something about, you know, some reputation management issue for you and your high net worth. family. So we now go in and say, okay, how can we train these children and train the parents at the same time to make sure that we mitigate that crisis before it even happens? People are going nuts over this because they're like, holy shit, we can give this up to these guys. You've got a CIA guy and an FBI guy that are going to train my kid. First off, it's cool. They think it's

cool. Yeah, of course. Oh, you know, we'll go. Oh, yeah. Everybody thinks that we're their personal person. Yeah. Right. So that's red teaming in a nutshell. Let's set up scenarios for where something could happen, God forbid, something serious or something that's just minor with regards to, you know, giving information to someone that you shouldn't have given information to or putting stuff on social media or traveling the same way from to and from class when you're a high net worth child. And people understand that you maybe can have a little bit of money and maybe I can get some money of yours for me. Based on doing something crazy. So that's red teaming in a nutshell, but then take it to another level.

There's thousand verticals that you can kind of business off that. You got to work me into this. I feel like I need to be worked into this. Dude, that's why I'm here. I mean. Don't let me break your collar back. Come on. You're going to come.

I mean, there's got to be a financial fraud expert. Of course there is. And listen, I would love to. It's funny because we've, you know, I've pitched, I've been pitched scenario type TV shows to be a part of. They never happen. You know, it's always, it's three or four meetings with this producer and that one and a director and this guy. And then it's this, this, this person. And it always ends up just fading off.

And they're all super excited every single time. But one of the ones I always thought was would be great is that, you know, you kind of like, you present a fake, you know, fake legend, right? Like a synthetic identity of some kind. You go in and you apply and try and get loans and what can I pass? What can I pass? what will you guys accept? How do you guys verify it? How do I get around that verification?

And the whole thing of walking in, they look at you and they think, clean cut white guy, right? Yep. You know, they're not thinking. Everything seems to check out. Even when there's red flags, they overlook them. You know, so I always thought that would be. I think that's awesome.

I mean, there's a lot of that, there's a lot of like, there's a market for that because we're getting reached out to by different people that want to do those kinds of things. I own a financial institution. I don't know. I'm a mortgage company for like five years. I totally understand. I get it. I mean, you should be embarrassed.

I just can't believe I had to bring this to you. Jeez. No, we're just getting there. It's just starting. So, but yeah, the red team is, is a valuable tool because it shows you your own vulnerability without exposing it to the rest of the world. So we do that. Now, there might be times where a company says, yeah, fuck it.

See what you can do. Let's film it. That would be cool if we ever got to that point. Oh, yeah, that would be cool. Yeah, I didn't mean. to film it. No, no, but I mean, that would be, that would be unbelievable. That'd be a whole fucking show.

Because it's a win-win. You're going into different companies, but some companies would be embarrassed. Some companies would be embarrassed and, you know, but, you know, some people and would want their discretion, you know, we get it. And we could do that, too. But just to be able to show you like, hey, man, you guys are totally exposed and here's the people that are jamming you up. What happened with the prep school?

Did you walk into a prep school? Yeah, yeah. By the way, one thing, you know, what I have. always heard, you can get in anywhere if you're carrying a ladder. Like, if you've got a ladder and a definitely. Yeah. Where's the service elevator? As long as you know where you're going and what you're doing. But that was the same thing. For me, like, it was a challenge because it was like, hey, see how secure my kid's school is. Okay. It's the same thing. So I'm like, what do you mean? Like, you know, see if you can get in and talk to my kids. Like, it shouldn't be. This is we pay a ton of

money for the school and everything else. So I'm like, okay, you know, challenge is a challenge to me. So, I mean, that was, that was it. I mean, I just basically walked up, I walked up to the security guy, made, you know, hey, where were you on the job? You know, what were you doing? And then I threw on, but I had a little fake accent call. Yeah. So I was like, hey, I just moved up, you know, I moved up from South Carolina. Um, I'm really interested in my kids coming to this school. We just bought a house over here. And I'm hoping that maybe I can get a look around, you know, And I only got like a day. I got to be back.

I'm flying back tomorrow morning. Is there a chance? And first he's like, no, we really don't do that. You know, you got to go through administration. I'm like, man, like, I got the money to get the kids in here. You know, I just want to see it so I can tell my wife, she's all over me. You know, can you please help me get through. And next thing I know, he's like, I said, you can walk with me if you want.

He's like, you know what, just be quick. Don't take any pictures. You know, so I walked in. I knew where the kids, I knew what grades the kids were in. Right. So I walked into each classroom and I took selfies with both his kids. Oh, my God. And when I went back, I said, you cannot have that guy fired.

You can have him trained. Yeah. I can train them. And you can't, you know, that's, but this is like, if I could do it, anybody can do it. Yeah, yeah. So you got to know that. So we change the whole method of the school. Like we changed the whole security kind of outlook and postured it up to another level, which was great.

But it wasn't so great. because I was like, I felt shitty doing it. Yeah. It's like, oh my God, these kids are like, these are young kids. You know, and they're like, who are, I'm like, I'm your dad's friend, you know. Don't you talk about me? Here's the, here's the problem. It was I think just people in general.

Yeah. When someone meets me, if they just meet me, hey, what's up? We shoot the shit. We talk for 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. If it doesn't come up, I don't mention my past. Yeah. If it does come up every, and I mean, every single time it comes up.

Like, I never shy away from it. So, you know, they're like, oh, yeah, this and this and this. I'm like, yeah, I never saw that. And they're like, I can't believe you didn't see them. I'm like, well, I'm like, when did it come out? And I'm like, well, I was in prison at that point. So if they didn't show it on the TV, I didn't see it. And they were like, are you joking?

You were in prison? And the reactions I get from people are like, bro, I would have never. And then I explained, yeah, yeah, it was this and this and this. I did 13 years. Like 13 years, you realize people, average citizen. the same people that set up the school and did everything, the average person has a, they have an image and a behavior model of what they think a criminal is. But the truth is, maybe five or 10 percent of criminals fit that. Most of them are connet. They're psychopaths. They will

lie to you. They will cheat. They will, they are manipulative. They will come off. They have a, you know, they have a facade that they put on to get over on you. And that goes from bank robbers to kidnappers to drug dealers even in many cases, too. A lot of people that you think, oh, I can tell of what a drug dealer is. No, you probably live next to a very drug dealer. Right. Exactly. He's probably the guy that most of the yard.

Right. They think he's walking around. He's got tattoos. He's got this with the chains. Right. He's actually super cool. Hey, what's up? Listen, Boziac.

if you just talk to him, like, listen, college graduate, great vocabular, I mean, I mean, great vocabulary, college graduate, I want to say, what am I saying, vocabulary speaks well, he's charismatic, he's, if it weren't for the tattoos, you know, you would never have any idea. And so I think that it's the same thing, like you're saying, like the people that set up the security for that school and that sort of thing, probably, and even, that guard, they probably think, they looked at you and thought, he's fine. Yeah. They have an image of what that bad guy, that bad guy has got neck tattoos and a

tear drop and he walks up and he doesn't speak good English and that guy, no matter what, you can't walk around. But he looked at you and he thought, you're okay. I had a suit on, you know, no tie, suit, no tie. They're like, ah, this guy really put, you know, had a little background. The kidnappers, and I've met multiple kidnappers in prison. Never know. Clean cut. So I was going to say. Nice, never know. Nice guys. Yeah. Spoke well. Everything. It's absolutely the truth. I mean, and that's why I think even this kind of red-teaming kind of promotion is you want to be saying, like even within families, like even within high-network families, how do we

kind of lock your family down? Because the world's getting crazier by the minute. So how do we do that? It's more and more polarized. Yeah. How do we do that? How do we make sure that you're at least aware? You're situationally aware.

Like most people just walk around just fucking no idea, just sheep, you know? Like just sheep, waiting for the, waiting for the dog, sheep dogs, and basically the wolf to just come and take them out. Right. You know, it's just crazy. And I see it all the time. I mean, most of our clients are that way. I was going to say, I know a guy, well, I know several kidnappers,

but this one guy, so funny. Actually, I always cracks me out because his name was Killian. His last name was Killian, which I thought was funny. But he couldn't go to, actually, he actually, I think he could go to the halfway house, but he couldn't go, he couldn't be released on. on an ankle monitor couldn't go home because he has there's some kind of an act that's on him for being extremely dangerous there's a hobbs act or something i forget what they call it okay yep but i remember we were talking one time and i was like oh they're not going to let you go home

wherever we were saying we were shooting the shit and i said um uh what how did i come up the the kidnapping came up and i said um yeah i said well i said hey have a question for you and i said the guy that you he owed his his he owed his boss like a hundred thousand dollars so he kidnapped him and i said uh and he was part of the like the um i don't want to say it wasn't it was a romanian mob it was room i was gonna not rush it was romanian mom and i said i said bro so you kidnap this guy you duct tape him to the to the thing and we're sitting there eating and i would fuck with them all the time and he's just like and i go what if he didn't come up with the money and he goes because they always come up with the money and i looked at him and i said well i said

what you mean always you did this the one time time. He goes, yeah. It was just the one time. Just the once. I just was really lucky that time. I was like, always, um, listen, that guy, always come up with the money. He was the nicest guy, but you could see in his face, we would be goofing around and joking around and laughing our eyes. Switch. It's a switch. Oh yeah. And one minute you'd say that that guy wouldn't hurt a flea and boom, you could look at him and you think that guy cut your head, clean off your body and his heartbeat. And not even,

yep, not even think about it. Yeah. That's the special operations community in a nutshell too. People don't know that. They don't think it. That's like,

that's the, that's the paradox of having that in the special operations community. Those guys, I mean, the switch just goes off. They have a pension for violence and they can go home

and drink a cup of coffee with their wife and like, hey, everything's great. And really believe that, that everything's great. It's pretty cool, it's pretty cool, but it's pretty great.

easy when you think about the capabilities that some of these people have and how they do it in what they do in their life. I met a, I had a bank robber who literally, how did he go again? He dropped like 30 banks. He had, he picked up his son. Somehow or another, he picked up his son from school, went and dropped them off at like, I'm probably getting this wrong, but dropped them off at like a T-ball. practice or something. The kid was young, like four or five years old, went and robbed

the bank, drove back, picked up his son, dropped them off, and then brought him home and went in. And he's like, and I've got the, he said, I've got like the money in my pocket. He said, I went through to make sure there's no, there's no tags or no nothing on. He said, I got, he said, but yeah, he said, like, I mean, he's like, I mean, he's like, I remember that at that point, I thought, yeah, man, this is, this is, this is a normal. He's like, I remember, because I remember telling him like, were you worried? Were you this? No, it's funny. He said, listen, one time this happened, I said, what did you think? And he goes, I mean, I remember that time I thought, yes, not normal, bro.

Like, the cops are actually driving around looking for me. I got my son in the car. And he's like, I, I, I know that was fucked up. But yeah, I had, I remember, I had another, I had another bank robber. This guy actually owned a security company. He'd gone to prison, owned a security company. He put in Rush Limbaugh's security system and was hooked on crack and went to go by, like, like a friend of his he went to go buy a um the guy had like a van he said man i don't want to buy

your van he's like yeah he's like how much he's like i want i want this much for it he's like yeah how much he's like yeah he's like i don't quite have enough he goes he said let me see what i can do he said all he goes okay and so i got my car i went straight to a bank i robbed the bank drove down the street robbed another bank counted up the money had enough came back he said pulled then to the driveway he said hey man can i pick it up right now like we'll switch over the thing but i need it now i don't want to right he was and i could he was he could hear like he could hear like i need it right now yeah he's like he could hear the cops in the background and he sat there and he went did you just rob a bank and he goes or do this or what i mean yeah yeah don't worry about the

detail give me the money yeah yeah don't detail the car or ask details same thing the guy's name was uh i remember his name was de geronimo he wasn't indian he although he pretended be in prison. There's a whole Indian thing. DeGeronomy was actually Italian. Great painter. Happened to be a crackhead. Um, not, listen, you looked at this guy? I'm telling you, he looked. You're not thinking anything different. He could be Colby. He could be Middle America, a normal average guy. I think one of the funniest, all-time greatest stories is just a sweet little councilwoman from a small Monmouth County, New Jersey town comes to us because she gets this, um, advertisement in the mail that says,

hey, you've won two free grave plots. And she says, I'm taking that as a threat. Oh. They're threatening me because the person who sent it, the cemetery owner is someone who's trying to do illegal business in our town. And I know it. So I'm like, okay, would you, by chance,

would you be willing to wear a wire? I thought it was a scam. So, no, it was, it was a scam. Oh, okay. But she took it as that which let us, gave us the opening now to record a person that we knew that was predicated to have taken money. They actually called this guy the 10% person. So kind of like what we've got going on today, what people are calling the president, and it gets 10% of everything or whatever. Right.

This guy actually, this small Monmouth County, New Jersey, town council person, and then later became a board. chairman on several of the planning board, zoning board, municipal utilities board, those things. This guy was actually a 10% guy. So what happens is we say, would you be willing, would you wear a tape and go talk to this guy? And just to see whether or not he's looking to have a meeting with you. That's why he might have sent you the ad. Now, we never really connected the ad, but we just saw it as an opportunity because she called the FBI. And she's though in my official capacity, you know, seems to be the threat. So we're like, okay, we don't disagree with it.

Would you go talk to him and see if he's the one who sent it? And then later on, whether or not he wants to talk. So sure and shit, she sets up a meeting. And amongst other things, he talked, exactly, hey, I'll give you a bunch of money for your next campaign if you approve these four projects that we have. So she listens, okay, and in the course of this, he tells this great story. He said, I don't know if you know my background. You know, he's one of these, like, little mobsters.

I don't know if you know my background, but I was in the horses. And then later on, I was in the dog races. He goes, you know, those things are fixed. Now, this woman is like, you know, she came from a high network family, went to Ivy League schools. She's like, oh, no, I didn't really know that. He says, you want to know how they fix the dog races? So she's like, yeah, you know, I guess I do. He says, they BJ the dogs.

And there's like silence, right? And then all of a sudden, he just goes to her. How'd you like to have that job? To what she basically just, she can't even, she's got to get out of the meeting. Right, yeah, yeah, I was going to say. She's got to get out of the meeting at that point. So she comes back and we're trying to, like, face up with her,

like anything, you know, not telling her that we have a transmitter so we can hear. Right. Anything interesting? Oh, no. You know, no, nothing at all. I'm just on the side of it. He did offer me some money for, you know, if I were to prove some of his, well, that's fantastic. Anything else?

I said, anything about dog races, Ellen? And she just goes, oh, my God, you heard that. She goes, it was one of the worst things I ever had to do. Now, take it forward. We take that information, and we wind up having a proffer session with him, with his attorney, Jay Fahey, who got arrested, so he killed him, went up killing himself, not over this case, but later on. So we're sitting there, and young, young fellow. federal prosecutors in the room, myself and my partner, we were a little more experienced.

And we come in and the guy's just, you know, Richie, we know you took, you know, this much money from this developer, from Bernard. You took this much money, whatever. I didn't take it. I didn't take a thing. I didn't take nothing. And we really didn't have enough at that point. So I walk out of the room with the prosecutor, who's now a federal judge.

And I'm like, Mike, let me just go in and do something crazy. I said, would you go with it? He says, yeah. So I walk in and I just yell, Richie, you. took $350,000 from the mitermints. And he just goes, no way, I took 180. And then he just, he realizes like,

fuck. You know, so the attorney's like, you can't use that. And we're like, no, definitely. That's a statement. And so that's the same, that's the BJ guy. So hey, how did you like to be? So it's just amazing, like, how that developed from a fake threat, which we knew wasn't a threat.

But we were able to talk to her and get her a little bit more interested in helping us. And she goes out and she gets an immediate bribe, you know, situation. And then she gets the BJ on the dogs, so it was perfect. How'd you like to have that jab? You know, so that's one of my better, like, I just, that whole case just was filled with just a bunch of fucking hilarious New Jersey stuff.

These guys are just not that sharp. No, just not, no. I was going to say, I watched a documentary, I think I've mentioned this again one time where they were, the FBI, they were like, listen, you know, they talk in code, but it's not that difficult. We're not dealing with Road Scholars here. And the guy plays a recording, and the guy, one mobster's calling another mobster, and he's like, hey, you got the canolies? You've heard this?

I've heard this. It's great. You got the canoles? He's like, yeah, I got the canoles. You got the canoles? Yeah, I got the canolies. Okay. You got the bullets for the canolies?

Yeah, I got the bullets for the canolies. I mean, it's like, what do you think they're talking about? Yeah, take a wild guess. What are you thinking of? I remember I wrote a book. I wrote a book for a guy named God. It was called Generation Oxi. And he said his buddy would call up.

And he'd call him up and he'd say, listen, man, I need some, I need some green apples. And he'd go, okay, I don't know what you're talking about. Bro, come on, you know what I'm saying? I need like, I need four green apples. And I need, he was like, do you have any, you got any blueberries? And he says, listen, bro, he's like, we're not fucking grocers. Do you understand?

Don't call me with this shit. And he said, he's like on the phone. He's like, he thought they'll never figure that out. Like, you know, and he's like, you know, whatever. 10 milligrams are blue. 50s are green And he's in there We got it, buddy

Yeah, nicely done So I did a little bit of law enforcement Corruption too Along the way So we had, yeah Not that there is any But if there were Nothing came up

No, nothing came up at all So we get this We get this complaint in That came through like Our local county prosecutor's office And it basically was Hey, there's some drugs You know, some

There's a group of police officers In a town that are creating fake search warrant and arrest warrant documents and then going in ripping off drug dealers. So I'm like, that's what I said. I said, listen, I have nothing to do with that because it never happened. And so they're like, this is a waste of resources and time that I don't have.

So I said, all right, what do we need to do? So anyway, there's this, there's this urban legend in this town, in the same town where there was this crazy diamond-bezzled watch that supposedly was lifted from a drug dealer's house and by a cop and that cop then had a relationship where he would give information to the drug dealer and in return the drug dealer would pay him

and so part of the payment was this watch supposedly so we found up more stuff so anyway we're listening to it like all right that sounds great you know what are we going to do about this let's start let's open up a case what's the cop like what does he do what squad is he on He was on like a strike force with a small group of guys in the same town. They always worked together. Very similar to the show The Shield or whatever that it was.

Right. It really reminded me of that situation. So anyway, we wind up realizing, okay, this watch that was lifted was by this guy, Life. Jonathan, I forget what Jonathan's real name was, but Life was his street name. So we go over and we see, you know, we see him with his mom. He live with his mom. Say, hey, anything, you know, did you ever have a watch? No, no, never.

You know, never had anything lift it, whatever. He says, you know, it's an old rumor, but it never happened. Okay. A couple months later, we get a call from a group of kids that were friends with life, and they said, hey, he's lying to you. We were in the mall like two weeks ago. That watch is still sitting in the front display cabinet of a local jewelry store. And here's where the jewelry store is.

Okay, so we go into the, see the jewelry. It's got Victor. On consignment? Yep, on consignment. So we walk in, we're like, hey, how's that watch, you know, what's going on with that watch here? Who's is that? He says, oh, that's Phil Montgomery's. So that was the cop's name. Oh, okay. So we're like, yeah, sure. So we're going on the back, we're like, hey, bro, you know, that dude stole that watch from a drug dealer. And what's it doing in the front country? He goes, well, I just changed the band on it. I didn't know, I didn't really know that that was the case, whatever. Now, what Victor doesn't know is that we had a wire tap up. at the time, based on these drug rip-offs. Right. So we leave, we said, listen, if you can give us any more information, you know, here's a subpoena so that you're covered, you can come up to grand jury and testify, whatever.

We walk out, we literally walk out, the phones are lying out. Yeah, he's like, hey, Phil, they know the story. You know, whatever. So he says, what did you tell him? And he says, I didn't tell him anything. So what do we do? We go right back in. We go, now you're fucking wearing a wire.

Yeah, here's the recording. So he's shit in his pants. Well, don't you know that one of the guys on our wiretap, was working in the same town as this cop. As soon as he knows that Phil's kind of under and that Victor, the calls that Victor was making into his phone to record, he's giving him up. So they plan to kill Victor.

So we're running around a shop right in a small New Jersey town trying to run down, make sure that Victor doesn't get killed. We're trying to grab him before Montgomery gets him. And ultimately, we wind up doing it. We wind up arrest in Montgomery. in the course of that arrest now the judge and all his

you know great wisdom releases Montgomery on bond Montgomery tries to kill himself so he basically goes into his bathtub cuts his wrist cuts them wrong if you want to cut I said do it next time just tell me I'll show you how to do it just go down this way don't go across I was like oh fuck you you know

whatever we went up convicting him at he goes to trial after giving four think about this he gave four proffer sessions he gave the whole scheme up and then went to trial And then went to trial. And he got convicted. And he was like, no.

I don't know how he got. He told us the whole fucking story. And then we just used, we got up and testified to your four sessions, your four proffers. And the jury was just like, oh, my God. Yeah, of course. So people don't know what a proffers. He went in and spoke with the FBI, gave a statement on exactly what happened, told him everything. And then at some point, after four of these, he then decided, you know what, I'm going to go to trial.

And it was all about because he couldn't stand us. Like, I don't like you guys. You guys are out against. And, you know, the only way you can get in trouble in a proffer is if you lie. Yeah. That's it. As long as you, you know, basically just tell us the truth, which he did. He was truthful.

And we had that. We had him actually saying, I'm telling, this is the truth. I understand the consequences of not telling the truth in a proffer session. So to then go to trial. Yes. It's crazy. Right. So now he gets convicted, but he also brings down the other police officers because through his, and he decides to testify on his behalf.

And he gets up and he talks about, hey, I was in the service. You know, I did this, and I did this. So when I, basically, I come back as a rebuttal witness, and the prosecution asked me, you know, Agent Deoria, well, you're in the service? And I go through my medals and everything I did. And the jury is just like, you know, we're not even going to buy, we're not even giving veterans preference to this bad guy. Yeah, yeah.

Because we just saw what happened here. Yeah. In the meantime, we wind up convicting like six or seven police officers in this town, destroyed the police department. I mean, cause actually gave the chief a heart attack. He winds up dying. And then Montgomery, I just. found out about a month ago, Montgomery did kill himself.

Went to Butner in South Carolina for evaluation. How much time did he get? He got like 12 years. So as soon as he got out, he killed himself. Why? I go through the... I know. I know.

So just like the craziness of that way of life, you know, I mean, this guy was, I mean, there wasn't a drug bust or a search warrant that was lucrative or fruitful. The entire time this guy was head of the strike force. so everybody was saying to find cash we go in there there's no drugs there's no cash there's no nothing you know so just crazy crazy stuff when you think about the sinister mind of people who are carrying a badge and a gun you know so i have one for you okay this is good um in Atlanta there was a task force a drug task force like whatever it was eight or ten guys I don't know how many they have on six whatever and this was like a notorious task force and they had no knock

warrants right so they're going to go bust a house uh they don't have to knock and say we're here to serve a search warrant and no time frame on it so you can go before six a you know right middle or not you can go to middle of the night you probably heard this story so um they also had what they called like certified confidential informants so these are guys that he said we We basically, we let them sell drugs in the neighborhood. Like, they can sell drugs. He is in periodically, and that builds their credibility, and then we'll send them in somewhere,

or they'll give us information periodically. So one day they pull over a car. They find whatever, half a key or something. And they grab the guy and they shake him up. Where did you get this? Where did you get this? And the guy says, look, I got it from my dealer. And he gives them an address.

So we take that in his money, and we say, well, we say, you tell us, we'll let you go. So he gives us the address. We let him go. He said, we can't use that guy. He said, so we let him go. And then we immediately go. He said, so now they got the Coke.

They got some little bit of money. They go to one of their certified confidential informants. And based on this confidential informant, they get a no-knock warrant. So that's how good these guys are certain. They've given us multiple busts. They're certified. Everything they're saying is true. They just have to give, they write up a.

affidavit? They say, this is what you're going to say. You're going to say you've bought drugs from this house several times. This is the dealer. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they say, okay, great. So he signs off on it. They go to a judge, they get a no knock warrant. They go to the front door, and he goes, it's got one of those metal. He's in a shitty neighborhood, obviously. It's got one of the metal door things. He's like, you know, we go up and they, he says, so we boom, we pry it off. And then bam, bam, bam, bam, we kick open the door. He said, And we do scream, you know, police, whatever. He said, and as soon as we get the door open, he said, the problem is it took like

30, 20, 30 seconds to pry the thing open, kick it open. He said, so he's, I go in first with my gun. He said, as soon as I get in there, he said, there's this long hallway. And he said, there's, this woman steps out and boom, boom, boom. He said, shot me right here. So the vest is here, goes through the thing of the vest, right in. He shot me. He said, boom, I fall back and I just open up on her.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. She's dead. He said, we go in, we search the whole house. He said, there's no drugs. There's no drugs. He said, the original guy just gave him an address next to where his old girlfriend lived, a random, changed a couple numbers, nothing. Oh, shit.

So the guy's name was Junior. Everybody called him Junior, the cop. Now there's like six or eight guys there. And so Junior gets shot, but he also kills a woman. The woman is, like, 75 or an 80-year-old, like, let's say it, a 75 to an 80. It's an 80-year-old retired teacher who had a little 22 or 38. She woke up in the middle of the night. I heard somebody bashing her door in that neighborhood.

In that neighborhood, walked out. These guys plant drugs in the... Just to cover the murder. Just to cover. Yep. They plant drugs and, you know, hoping somebody else. lives there hoping it'll. So they plant drugs and Junior goes to the hospital.

And very quickly, by the way, it's unraveling. I was actually in the Atlanta Union City jail at the U.S. Marshall's holdover. And I remember hearing this, I was either there, I was at Atlanta City Detention Center. But I remember hearing it on the radio thinking, I doesn't sound right. They're talking about shooting an old woman. Like an 80-year-old woman is not selling drugs. Of course, that was when I was still before I'd been sentenced.

So now I actually realized, no, no, an 80-year-old woman will sell drugs. Yep. But not a retired school teacher. Right. And the neighbors were coming out. So the radio thing was like she was shot. All the neighbors were coming forward saying, that woman's not a drug dealer. Like that is a retired.

We know drug dealers in this neighborhood. That ain't one. That's not one of them. Yep. So immediately, internal affairs comes, right? And he thinks to him, a junior thinks, I could, I could, I could probably, probably be okay. He goes, it's starting to come apart. He says, and this happens, by the way, within days. I'm talking about like within 10 days.

Yeah. And from the beginning with the certified guy, certified informant who they didn't certify properly, obviously. He immediately, he said, as soon as they get him in a room, he immediately says, man, they told me, they brought me, periodically they do, they always tell me if you don't sign this, you're going to fucking prison, you're going this, we're going to prosecute for everything we got. He's like, I'm, you know what I'm a slave. I'll do whatever these guys have to say. So he buckles immediately. And then what happens is internal affairs ends up

basically the feds come in because now we're talking this happened so quickly I remember in no time at all right so DEA is brought in

or Bureau? No no Bureau FBI comes in and so he gets out he gets out like two days out he's in the hospital like overnight

practically maybe two days he gets out goes home and says he said I've been he's that I've been around a while

he goes I know he said look I I love to the guys on my squad he said but we all know what just happened he said and they're all going to flip on me because they know if we go to trial and anybody else flips they're all going to end up with going to prison for 20 years he was so I realize I'm the one that shot her I'm like the team leader I'm the team this I'm the one with the most jeopardy I killed he goes he said I'm the one that he never said I killed he always said I shot I'm the one that shot her. So I know where it's a problem. He said, so I immediately grab my lawyer.

I go to the FBI. He works out of deal with the prosecutors. I will cooperate against all these other guys, tell you all the stuff we did. I get to retire. He keeps all of his money. What the fuck? He gives up everybody. Everybody else got about 10 years.

And lost her job, lost the pension, lost everything. He, um... And he kept his pension, this motherfucker. Um, I'm pretty sure. I mean, he didn't get to retire because he hadn't been there long enough. Right. He keeps the pension when he does retire. Um, listen, his wife used to come in a $300,000 RV. Oh my God. She used to drive down and park it in the parking lot and come see him in jail. So here's what he was, and he was upset about this. I think Colby might have heard this story before. He was upset about this. When I'm talking to him, he was like, he was pissed off

because he's like, he was sentenced to the state for the murder, right? For, it was. It was. It wasn't murder, though. They got him for, like, how much, like, a, what do you call it, like a manslaughter. Yeah. So he was upset because he was, he got like five years or, but five years plus good time, plus this, but he's like, I would have been out in like three years, two, two, three years in the state. They run them at the same time. Never goes to the state. Has to do his time in the feds, which in a low, which is where he wanted to be. So, and he said when he got to sentencing, he said he had worked. out a deal where they were going to recommend like 36 months so that he said that way by the time the state thing is ready to put me out on parole

I'm out of the feds. He said, and he was telling me the story, I was like, right, right. He goes, that fucking federal judge gave me like 63 he was pissed about it. And he's like, I can't, he's like everything I did for these motherfuckers.

And he's like, I mean, fucking piece of shit. And he sat there and I went, dude i go you did murder someone you killed a school teacher 80 year old school teacher and he looked at any middle middle of the fucking night but here's what he said to me when i said i go you did kill a woman

he looked at me and he goes oh she shot me first and i went you broke in her house in the middle of the life he said we said police and i was just like like he and i was like holy yeah like nobody else would would say police if they're bringing the house in that neighbor everybody the street code says you don't yeah so it's like Like, I mean, talk about fucking delusional. And listen, something was wrong with this guy, by the way. When he got, when initially the photos of him, this is what's, you tell me.

Initially, the photos that we've seen of him in the newspaper, he was about probably, he was probably, let's say, he was about, about 5'9. And he was probably 2.10, 2.20. He was about a buck 40 in prison. his teeth were starting to rot. Here's the thing, and I didn't even know this because I was in the, it took about six months to a year before somebody said, oh, he's fucked up. And I was like, why is he fucked up?

He would go eat, come back to the unit, and go in the bathroom and throw up. And I was like, what? And they were like, watch, we would sit there and we would be making food. Like they had bag lunches one time because the kitchen were closed. They give us bag lunches.

They go, watch Jr., as soon as he eats, he's going to the bathroom. We sat there, he's eating a sandwich soon as he was done. was like he walks in the bathroom and I walk in behind him and I hear him and very quiet throwing up but in there and now I'm paying attention and I start realizing he's puking every time he eats he pukes and he used to say and I go bro you've lost a lot of weight yeah and he was like well you know this prison the prison food they don't feed us good here it's like wait a minute it's a bologna sandwich bro you're fine yeah it's not making you throw up yeah I always felt like maybe and this seems maybe

very simplistic but you know like maybe his conscience punishing himself for doing that for killing that woman yeah it doesn't realize because in person he'd say fucked up shit yeah of course yeah but it's like deep down like you got to yeah you killed you killed her in the middle of night knowing that you did that

I mean I at least hope no due diligence like I think he probably stopped throwing up maybe he'd be okay if he just admit to it what I did was fucked up and I'm but he didn't he couldn't do it yeah I couldn't admit that that's crazy and it's funny too because you could see his teeth like especially in the back, you could see his teeth where they were kind of like, like, that acid. You can't do that

every day. No, definitely not. I mean, you're forcing yourself to do it, screws up your body, your organs. Bro, he's like a skeleton. He's so skinny. I wonder, so, so he just, basically, I feel for that woman, think about that. She's a retired teacher. She's got to live in the house like that. She's got to live with a steel plate and everything else that comes with that to make sure she doesn't get bashed in, you know, every night. She must have been terrified. She probably had a little bit pension money so that anybody was fucking looking at scammer, they get you know what I mean? Like going there and rob her

you know? Yeah, that's... So she had to put that to, oh my God, and then this dude kills her. And then they were trying to say she was a drug deal. Like that they tried that for several days. Neighborhood's like, no. That ain't happened. There's a lot of people that are like that. We're not doing that. She ain't one of them. Yeah. That's terrible shit. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so

much of that stuff. We had another case that is, I'm thinking about it now. We had a case in Seaside Heights after Sandy, Super Storm Sandy, in 2012, right? So we get this portion of New Jersey, the famous picture with the roller coaster in the ocean. Yeah. From Sandy. That's Seaside Heights. Right. And there always been talk about the chief there being a little bit, like, you know, a little too friendly with the business developers and making a ton of money and some businesses on the side. I, you know, I have nothing against the guy, but he's definitely a little questionable at best. Right. So we get

Sandy hits we get a call from the 7-11 there was a couple that owned two 7-Eleven franchises in Seaside Heights and they call us and they're like hey you know we've got damage but we're really

it's weird what's happened to our store so like what do you mean it's weird like yeah we're missing like all the cash and all the scratch off lottery tickets and she said these were all locked up and not wet they didn't get damaged all that shit's gone in both our store It's like, holy cow, that's totally unusual, you know.

So we start looking into it a little bit. We try to get video. There's no video that's available there at the store. We talked to the police department. You know, we're like, hey, did you guys hear anything about people, you know, bashing in windows and taking shit and doing what they weren't? No. You know, did you guys go in seven? Yeah, well, we did because there's, and there is like emergency management law, some type of law or some type of policy in these barrier,

towns where if something were to happen like that, they can go ahead and take some of that equipment that they need, flashlights. Yeah. You know, shovels, whatever, take it, and then just invoice it and pay that back. So they show us the thing, yeah, you know, we did take some of that stuff. So now we're like, all right, wait a minute.

Who else was in those stores? Well, nobody really oh, you know, we went and in. We took some food. We needed food. It was going to go bad anyway. Someone was damaged. Took some drinks. Okay. And then we get another, an Army Navy store, a local Army Navy store. The guys like, yeah, they took, like a shitload of my stuff.

We said, well, you know, shoes and that stuff, they can take that stuff, and then they'll pay you back. They didn't give us any invoice. Now it starts to like, so I'm questioning the chief a little bit. Like, hey, anything about that? No. So they're looting.

No idea. They're looting. The cops are looting. So now I'm like, oh my God. I said, nothing about like scratchoffs or cash or an answer? No, no, we took, I can tell you what we took. I made a, you know, now of a sudden an invoice, like an inventory appears. Right.

So I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute. So I've got connections at seven. 11. So I call basically the asset protection guy at 711 and say, do you guys by chance, like, keep copies of these tapes? Do you have like a central? He said, we do. It's regionalized, but we definitely have, if power goes out in some

spot, we should have some video. So, I get the video, my boys, there's my boys taking cash and taking scratchoffs. Right? So we can't, as the federal government cannot charge, we don't have an official misconduct charge. We just

don't have it. So we pass it a along to the local prosecutor's office who then charges a sufficient misconduct on these cops. And the big, the worst kick in the face to these people, slap in the face was they kept the winners and took them across state and had people cashed them in for them. Right. And like straw people, straw donors to go in and they gave them a little bit of money for that. And they left the losers all over the floor. Okay.

So to me, like thinking about the crime. craziness that happens. A storm hits your community, your local law enforcement. You're supposed to be out there doing the right thing. You're supposed to be saving lives and helping people. And you take scratch off lottery tickets. That was enough to fucking destroy your pension and destroy your time. And the chief never, I never could get him. I never could get, we didn't have anything on him. He wasn't there. And I could never get anybody to flip and say, oh, he's the one who said, go, you know, give me some of those. And there's cigarettes were missed. other things that I thought maybe he had.

In the meantime, like, this guy, this guy is so fucking corrupt that the people, so Seaside Heights is a community that has this beautiful boardwalk. It's not so beautiful anymore, but it's got a bunch of different rides. It's got like a water park. It's got a mini golf courses. It really used to be spectacular. The gunite, the spray for the pool slides in this place, the company that does that, put a pool in the chief's in the chief's yard and in the chief's girlfriend's yard that's common

that's a that's a coincidence it's it's it always happens so i would walk into this police headquarters and just and he was he was banging the secretary the records girl and she i said hey how's your pool one time and he came charging like out from down so he's watching me on camera like fuck you you motherfucker you know let's go i'm gonna bet i'm like how's your pool i said matter of fact i was just over your house I took some pictures. Your wife is out there. I want to tell her that it's unbelievable. So-and-so's pool is the exact same as yours.

But like the corrupt nature of, hey, and this guy's the, he's the highest paid chief still in New Jersey. He makes over three. It's a seasonal town. He makes over 300K a year as a police chief. It's a lot. And he's still, and he's taking freebies. But anyway, if you're out there, you know who you are.

I'm still looking at you, motherfucker. Oh, man. That's terrible. I should have said. I don't mean that. I don't mean that that that much. Collarbone. Color of color.

Oh, people. You know, people. People, man. What happens is get away with something. You become emboldened by it. Especially if you're in a position of authority. You start to think you're just, you're above the law. Yeah.

And what is it, what is the common denominator for people put in power that immediately try to abuse it? I think. Why does that happen? I don't know what those, what makes up those people, but I think that, you know, there's, there's a lot of people that just, they get in the position and they're fine. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But then there's a lot of people that just they think, hey, I've arrived, I've made it, and now I'm just going to take advantage of this situation.

And it's like, oh, wow, like. To lower level, like the levels of craziness. Yeah. You know, like, it goes from, I look at all levels of, I look at that, what we just talked about, plus the cop in Atlanta. and then you look at like even what bothers me and I know it shouldn't bother me in any way but if I go into a Dunkin' Donuts or I go into a coffee place

and there's uniform officers and they're not paying for their way like we at Jersey Mikes you know we have a discount like if a cop comes in the uniform it's half price right I don't care what I'm going to do that and franchise you know the corporation whatever but to take it

or to expect something for free that's where it starts to me yeah and I can remember as a young agent, I walked into our hometown Dunkin' Donuts, and there was a New Jersey State Trooper, and he had ordered probably $40 or $50 worth of stuff and just walked out. Like, he's like, yeah. So I said something to him. Dude, you know, you're going to pay for that.

He just told me to mind my fucking business. So I was like, no, you know, if you're in uniform and you're coming in for a cup of coffee and that owner wants to do that for you, that's a different story. But you don't take, like, the whole squads. Yeah, yeah. He's not two dozen donuts and this. This guy's trying to, this guy's used to, from where this guy's from, his portion of the world, police are corrupt. Yeah.

So he has to do that or he's going to get his ass beat. We don't do that here. So he started like really jumping my shit. And I said, hey, who, when you went through the State Police Academy, who was your instructor in ethics and morals? And he said, oh, and he mentioned my ex-brother-in-law. I'm like, he's going to love to hear this story. And he's like, oh, pleading in his tune change. Let me pay.

I'm like, I think it's too late. I said, I already paid just so you know for you. And I don't have a lot of money either because I'm a brand new FBI agent. But you really don't do that. Like, don't put that kind of spot. But I think it starts there. And then you're right. I think when they've arrived, I can do more.

I can, you know, be this. I can get this for free. Not everybody's like that. And I know that. Most guys are not like that. Yeah. Not like that. But the ones that are, I think are the ones that develop into a different mindset to do stupid stuff.

I haven't been caught. I've got a badge and a gun. I can cover my ass. Boom. Well, you ever watch the, get the TikToks and shorts and stuff where they show the officers, you know, let me see your ID. I'm just sitting here. Like, for what? Yeah. Suspicious activity. Yeah. I'm sitting on the side of the road eating my sandwich. It's my break. Like, and then they, are you going to go down that way? Okay, I'm calling backup. Okay. You know what? And it's like, escalate it. Just talk to. Talk to a person. Right. And, and it's just, of course, I always hate the. The auditors that, what do they call them, First Amendment auditors? The First Amendment auditors that, it's like, there's some of them that I like. Some of them I like, but some of them are like, like stop, you're calling this guy name. I know, you're being an asshole.

Like, even now I want you to give him your papers. Yep, exactly. You know, matter of fact, we, we, I interviewed a guy and he tells this whole story. He ends up getting himself arrested, goes to trial, loses at trial. And it genuinely, like they just don't listen to anything he says. And it's like, and at the end, he says, what he said? He said, he said, you think I did the right thing, right? And I went, no, no. He's like, absolutely no. And I said, no, no. I said, listen, I said, first of all, I've been through the system. You know, I think I said something else first and then I came to.

And, you know, what it really boils down to is I said, I've been through the system. You're not going to win. I'm just going to give you my ID. I don't feel like I have to. I'm going to because I want to move on. I don't want to die on. This is not the hill I want to die on. Exactly. I'm going to give you my ID. Take a look at my ID. Let me go. I said that's where I said because I've seen the system go so badly.

And even you can sit there the whole time and say that I didn't do anything. I've got the law on my side. I've got this. And it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're going to fight that fight another day and it's not going to work for you. And what's really upset me about that was that the big thing was he was he was just going into public records.

So you're going into the courthouse. And they want to see his ID. And he's like, no, I don't have to. So then the guy's like, no, you're going to show. He's like, no, I'm not. And he walks straight in to get his mother's death certificate. Now, here's the thing. I said, when you get your mother's death certificate, you knew you had to show them your ID.

Well, yeah, he goes, I'll show them mine, them, them, but not this guy. And I went, like, well, like three minutes later, you were willing to show your ID. Just show your ID. You're not proving anything. And I said, you know what you could have done. You could have shown me your ID. So I don't have to it here, no problem. Okay, fine, they take it down.

You go get your thing. I said, and then you could. could have written up a complaint. I was trying to get, yeah, a sad time in my life. Right. Well, yeah, by the way, you're not supposed to be doing this. Yeah, don't do that, you know. Go to city council. Go and say, look, here's what they're doing.

That's not right. Do it the right way. Right. Do it the right way, you know. And I just think across the board, yeah, you're never going to win. You're never winning that battle. Right. You're not going to do it, you know.

And I like, I don't know, I never, it's weird, but there's a lot of liaison work. that goes with the Bureau, especially when you're tight with the community of local law enforcement. And I never felt comfortable going to like the chiefs meetings or going to, because I never wanted to put them or me on a spot if we ever had to investigate their department. And that was viewed the wrong way.

That was viewed like, oh, that dude thinks he's better or that thing, you know, oh, just because he's this. No, it was always because I didn't want ever have a situation where I'm questioning you. about one of your cops or you yourself or something else or you're questioning me about one of my agents and we now have a relationship so it's personal. I never want to do that

and it's like it really backfired for a long time. Now I've gotten tons of phone calls and say, dude, we kind of know we're in that situation now, we kind of understand. Right. You know, we kind of understand what you're going through and why you went through it. I was just say, you know, the thing is I think that they they just sometimes they just say whatever they're going to say because people as a law enforcement officer the public just accepts it yes it never comes back on them they just say whatever they want and

never comes back but i was going to say it's funny i interviewed the chief of police on uh for okachobe okay county and you know so very quickly in the interview you know he realizes i was incarcerated you know so immediately Immediately, his attitude changed. The guy that used to be the head of the drug task force changed. Like, everybody's attitude changed. And he got this look on his face that was like disgusted. And I was like, okay, well, I'm working on a story.

I'm a reporter working on a story, an article, you know, and I'm like, and I, so, and I, you know, he, somebody says something. And I could have dodged it. Yeah. But they're like, well, so how'd you end up meeting the subject, right? Like, how'd you end up meeting it? And I went, oh, I said, I met. her in the halfway house and he's like what were you doing in the halfway house and I was like and so I was like okay now I have I have to address it so I said well I was there for this boom

boom I went to you know for fraud and this and then I said but I met her she had a great story so I ended up pitching the story and now I'm writing a story an article on her so I interview him and as I'm interviewing me he's now they neither want to really want to talk to me yeah they're real short but what's so funny is he's I'm asking him questions like yeah it's it's this I don't remember uh I'm not sure uh you know and and he's and he says uh he says, yeah, he's like, listen, we don't have all those records. It's a long, it's an old case, it's not an old case, but he's like, it's an old case. He says, and we don't have those records here, and we don't have an opportunity to look over those records.

He says, and we don't keep records like that here at the station. He said, he said, they're archived or they, I don't even know if they exist anymore. So he said, we don't have those. So I can't give you those specifics. And I go, he said, so I don't know, I don't know about that. I said, no, I said, I know who the informants are. Here's who they are. I said, I've already ordered the Freedom of Public Records.

And I go, I said, I've already got the records, because the record department, by the way, was one, was a two rooms over. And I got it from your department. Yeah. And you do have the records. Yeah. And like everything he said, so as I said, I've already got the records from the, I said, from the Freedom of Information Act. I said, Mr. So-and-so has already given me the record. So I already know who they are.

It's this person and this person. I'm just wondering if. And I, and you could see the look on his face was he just got caught in a blatant life. Oh, hell yeah. And at that point, he's like, why don't you go ahead and wrap up these questions so we can get going and get this done. so you can do your little article and I thought fucking little article

condescending pretty yeah immediately and I thought I guess that you talk to people like that and it never catches up to you and you become I don't know

you just you know it was here's what's so funny about that I mentioned that because the article I was writing was basically about this little town that has this this this huge issue with methamphetamine it's overrun the town

It's become this massive problem that's coming in through the Everglades. It's coming in through these different channels. It's being brought in from Mexico. It's being shipped down here. And you've got this little tiny sheriff's department with a small budget and not enough officers to handle this problem. And they are doing the best that they can. And that was how I wanted to portray them. Like they're doing the best they can.

They're fighting the good fight. my subject even said who mentions talks about the one guy who used to be in charge of the task force she's like everybody hates his guts he's a complete asshole she said but here's the thing she goes he was raised in this town he's got a wife and like two or three kids in this town his neighbors are all on meth he's watching meth destroy his town she goes so he has every right to be an asshole yeah this is my subject yeah so while i'm saying like so when i went in there i was like gonna, I really wanted to put them in the best life. Like, they're fighting

giving the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. And when I walked out, it became fuck you. You're a fucking, you're just a scumbag piece of garbage. Like, like, you know, you're this backwards hillbilly backwards sheriff now. Like, and all you had to do was be just be polite. Yeah, be professional. Yeah, just be

professional. So I don't know, you know, I don't, like I said, I don't know what happens to these guys. I know. It's a level, I think it's, you know, the other, the other issue, too, is the quick with the hands. Yeah. You know, that was, that was, that was always like a, a respected thing with, with cops. Like, not, you know, and you could see it like, oh, he's really good, you know, he's a tough guy, he's good in the boxing, whatever. But how do we not, how did we go from that being able to maybe assist to proactively, looking for those things

like I want to fight I want to beat some people up I want to tune some people up and then you have the George Floyd type issues like I was asked a couple times like what would you have done it's a simple thing I don't care what his background is

I don't care how much crack or whatever he was on bottom line is it's simple and now you're finding out those two dudes knew each other too Floyd and the cop oh really from years past

like from high school or something crazy not even run ends I mean, it's like, hey, Mr. Foy, and they had that happen a million times. Mr. Floyd, get in the back of the car. Right. Let's talk to you in a little bit. Done.

Lives aren't ruined. He's in handcuffs all right already. He's in handcuffs. He's not going to do anything. Right. And if he does, you know, okay, you just put him in the car. What is he still doing on the road? Pick him up and put him in a car.

You got him in handcuffs? You know what I mean? Like, just the people. And there's a lot, there's a lot of that, too. I managed, I worked the Civil Rights Unit and, and, and, and, uh, P.I. Headquarters. I did that for a short time. That human trafficking. You can't believe how much of that shit comes in every fucking day. Like hundreds of complaints, hundreds of complaints. You know, and some of the time, it's like, man, the cops are doing the right thing. I mean,

I truly do. Yeah. Some of the time they're not. Some of the time they're not. But listen, with the body cams and everything, I watched a TikTok a week ago where literally the chick's 115 pounds, the cop's 220 pounds he's got her on the hood of the car or she's leaning over he's putting he's she's being not belligerent

she's like I don't understand what is the problem but he's got the handcuffs on her yeah they're done handcuffs are on her and she's like what is your problem and slams her on the ground

it's like she's in handcuffs she just turned around she's not a danger you got a hundred pounds on her did you just throw 115 pound girl on the fucking pavement who can't put her hands out?

Yeah, she just smashed her face. Of course. Like, it's like, boom. And it talks about there was a lawsuit and blah, blah, blah. But it was like, you know, the camera's right. Like, you felt so confident in your ability to harm this person and you wanted to. When you watch those tapes, you realize, like, every time I see one of these types of tapes, even when the guys are belligerent and the cops are just overly just aggressive, I was

think, man, this guy should not be a cop. It shouldn't be a cop. And that's what I mean. Like, the quick hands, it's all about, it's all about talking, you know, mental, like, mental akito, you know, mental judo, you know, doing that, like, hey, how do you talk, how do you talk this person out of the belligerents, first off, and how do you approach it so that you don't appear that way? Yeah. You know, that, I, we've lost that. We've lost that, you know, and, um, right, with the body cams, you think they would, they don't even think,

they don't even have enough sense to think about that, not that it's right, but don't you understand, like the world is watching. Yeah. You know, so if you are crazy and you think, you want to do that stuff, well, you're definitely going to be answering questions. Yeah. You know, in the past, it wasn't like that, you know, I mean, before body cams, it wasn't that long ago. No, so you're my word against your, that's it. I'm a police law. That's it. I'm going to win. Yeah. I'm going to win every single time. Um, I don't know. It's just, I don't know what the answer is, you know, but I do think it's, I do think it starts in training. I do think it starts with these police academies and state police academies and Quantico to be

able to teach people how to talk, how to, how to be more human. Right. You know, how to use those skills. I think that's much more, to me, it's much more civil. You know, it's much more, it's much more non-divisive. Right. Which has continued to divide the country in every way, that being one of them. Law enforcement against those who weren't.

I was love there's this TikToker. He's constantly saying to the cops, he's like, de-esculate, de-esculate. I think I've seen that guy, yeah, de-esculate. It's like every time. Like, you're clearly bringing a thund on yourself, because every time you have interaction. How about the dude who's like the bounty hunter, but he also does repos and different things? He's like a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a jack. He's not really jacked. He's like a thinner black dude, but he's tough as

shit. His wife's, um, Hispanic and they just go around like, oh yeah, yeah, no, he's a guy. Oh, dude, it's the best. Yeah. Oh, my God. He's like, I'm going to throw some smoke on you now. And like, these guys are big and he, why is up tuning him? I want to see the real video because all you see is like the black, oh God, it just cracks me. up. I don't know. It's just crazy, man. Crazy what's going on. It's just, I don't understand. You know, I do think, though, training. Training and just humanity is the answer as we get closer. I mean, it's going to blow up. You know, it's going to blow up. We're almost at the stage where law enforcement is like they are in other countries, you know, just a little bit more corrupt and in it

for the wrong reason. You know, what's so funny is like when I got locked up, guys were like, you know, oh, the cops are the biggest gang out there, and the cops, and I used to always think, you know, okay, whatever. But the more cases you hear, the more you read, the more you see, it's like, Jesus, like, you know, so it's, and here, here's what really, what makes it even worse is like, if there's a bad cop here, what really upsets me is, okay, that's a bad cop, we can get rid of him, the fact that all these other cops won't say anything. Yep. Like, oh, bro, like, you know, that's the, this is the problem. Yep. You know he's fucked up. Hey, I even interviewed a cop that said, yeah, there was this one cop, and they, like, sent me to a house and he was there. And I was like, yeah, listen, man. He's like, he's told dispatch. He's like, I really don't want to go on this call. And they were like, why so-and-so's there. He's like, he was overly aggressive. He was like, he was constantly getting, there's constantly a problem with this guy. Because he's constantly pushing the boundaries and he's constantly telling people, well, no, I can come in. He's like, they're like, you don't have a warrant. You can't come in. And he's like, I'm like having to step in front of him going, hey, hey, hey, hey, look at.

What's your problem? He's like, what's my, like you don't have a warrant. You're not going in. Exactly. That kind of stuff. And, you know,

but he's like, but then the problem is, it escalates. He's like, yeah, and you know, you don't want to say anything. You don't.

No. It's a whole Serpico thing. You're, you're that one guy and next thing you know, it goes bad. It does go bad too. You know what Serpico?

Let's just, watch this. You know what Serpico is? Unbelievable. I'm going to write, I'm going to send you home with two assignments. Serpico

But yeah He doesn't know Frank Serpico man Great story But yeah I mean I think you're right I mean I think there's just

Even the George Floyd thing Like why didn't one of those other guys say Bro get off his neck Yeah What are you fucking doing? Yeah You don't need to do that No

I put him in the car And call it a day There's no real war Let him go I mean If he took off don't I mean We always used to talk about

There's another day First of all He's got cuffs on He ain't going anywhere You ever try and run with your hands behind your back? Exactly. Good luck, you know. I mean, it's a safe, well, it's a safety issue. It's not really. You killed them. Junior told me a story one time. They were chasing a drug dealer. Yeah. And then we'll wrap it up because this is, so junior,

they were chasing a drug dealer one time. He said, and it's going over the overpass. Okay. So we're running towards an overpass. And he said, so he's running towards the overpass. He said, well, he said, you know how on the overpass, there's the overpass. He said, but on the side of it, like, it goes down. Yes. He goes, well, one of his buddies jumps. over lands and starts running off. He goes, so you can see him running kind of down the embankment. He goes, well, this guy runs, he said, he runs maybe 30 more feet. He goes, with 30 feet on that incline.

Oh, hell yeah. And then he jumps. And he said he jumps. Obviously, there's no ground now. He goes, he spins around. He hits the fence. And it hits him, he said, directly in the back of the neck, pierces the neck, rips his head straight. Oh, my head is sitting there.

He said, a head is sitting on a fence. So when we, he goes, I wo to jump over. And he said, when he, it was him or one of his guys, go to jump over and they grab onto the thing. Like they realize what's happening. And they're like, oh, he's like, we pull him up. He goes, then we go back. We run down. He said, we're sitting there.

And he said, by the way, it's like his body had slid down even further. Because the body's like 10 feet over here. He said, his head's on the, on the pole. He said, fucking, he said, most insane thing he ever seen his life. He said, it was horrific. Horific is right He said like the The time

You couldn't have planned it You couldn't have Think about the PTSD That comes and seeing that I was gonna I gotta talk about this a little bit And so I had a transformation For my faith

About a year and a half ago Okay It's an interesting It's a crazy story And things happened to this day The guy who just drove me From my hotel here to your house It's a godsend

For me It's amazing how things happen So I'll tell you a little bit About the story You know, Catholic family, sit down, stand up, fight, fight, fight in the parking lot. That's the Catholic faith in a nutshell. Again, not discounting what people believe. I think there's wonderful pieces of that religion that go forward.

There's some things that are not so great. I had a diocese that I was hired by, big-time diocese in the Northeast to what I believed was to assist victims of sexual assaults. by the brethren and the clergy. And what I found out is it wasn't. It was to negotiate with those victims in order to make sure that we got the best deal for the church. So we'll leave it at that, what I thought.

So I was looking for another thing. I wanted to experience something else. I started to read the Bible a little bit. I started to think about what the deal, but realize I just don't have time for that. It's about a year and a half ago. One of my best buddies from West Point, his wife had suffered with cancer for six years.

like terrible cancer. Jesus. And she finally went home to God last October, October of 2022. So a year, holy cow, a year plus ago. And he called me, said, hey, I'm putting Lori in hospice and just want you to know. You know, we're real good buddies. And I said, okay, no problem. My wife at the time said, hey, you know you have to go to that week, right?

It's in Lincoln, Nebraska. We're living in New Jersey. I'm like, I don't really have time to go to that. You know, what am I going to offer to go to that? I really don't want to go. So, anyway, one of my other buddies calls me, he says, hey, you have the details on Lori's wake? I said, I do.

He said, are you going? I said, well, I'm going to go. You know, I'm driving from Chicago to Lincoln, Nebraska on Friday. So I tell you what, get your ass out here by Thursday, right? And I was like, no, I'm not going to do it, not going to do it. Next thing you know, I'm in the car. I don't know. I just always, things like that are always like, what if something?

you know, what if I have to believe something different, you know, if I go out there and I just want to stay in my own little world. You know, I'm happy, I'm happy doing a decade of the rosary, you know, once in a blue moon during Lent and maybe, maybe, maybe not eating that Western Whopper on Fridays during Lent, maybe not eating it, but sometimes I did. So I find myself in a car, man, heading out there, you know, and I'm like, what the hell am I doing? Right. Driving out to Chicago, like eight hours to Chicago. Get there. there. We play golf one day. Next morning, he says, I'll drive. We're going to drive to Lincoln. So I jump in the car. We start driving. And he doesn't start in right away, but he's like,

hey, let me ask you something. You're struggling with faith? And he's a believer. He's a big-time believer. I didn't think he was as much as he is, but he lives his life that way. So I should have known. And so we start going out. He starts telling me. Not at all. You always think they're going to push it on you. Never. He doesn't say anything, but except for this ride, he's like, what's going on you know so I explained to him like this is going wrong my marriage is falling apart I don't feel good you know I'm worried about this I'm worried about money I'm worried about you know where I'm going to live all and he listens the whole way he's like well you know there's only one answer and he kept saying that finally I'm like dude would you shut the fuck up like honestly I'm sick and

fucking tired of hearing about it all right I don't want to hear it anymore you know so he's like well you're willing to roll the dice on that bro you know and I'm like yeah I'm only because there's nothing you know if there was anything things like this wouldn't happen in the world. Bad things wouldn't happen. All those excuses that I thought about. And we're heading to this best buddy of ours who lost his wife a couple days before, but it's all about me. Yeah. You know, so finally we finished with the eight-hour ride. We're checking into the hotel. I'm even saying, I'm going to get my own room, man. I don't want to stay with you. I'll Uber over to the thing. I just had it, right? So he says to me, like, hey, all those things that are going on,

you know, you seem to have a pretty good grip on that stuff. And he said, so no belief in that there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, and still here and faithful to you. I said, no. He says, well, it sounds like your way, it's working out just great for you. Yeah, I was going to say, well, I was like, fuck you. You know, like literally. Here we are. I get dressed for the wake. We get in the car. We're not talking. We pull in front of this, you know, church, this Bible church in Lincoln, Nebraska, where my buddy, you know, has been a worshiper and believer there for years with his wife who just passed. We walk in. There's probably like 100 people in the vestibule waiting to go in to

see and pay their respects and a woman says hey can you just sign in here who you are door pops open right there's no way that this dude could see anything you know there's no way that he could say and i'm thinking why am i here what the fuck this is unbelievable i'm pissed off at the world he comes right over to me he doesn't look at anybody else he puts his arms around me he says i knew you'd be here and i was like man there's something to this shit there's something to it right whole way back from lincoln the next day we went to the celebration of life the last thing this woman wrote in her prayer journal before she passed and went on to

God was before she went unconscious. The last thing she wrote was thank you God for always being here. And I thought to myself, holy cow, that's what I want. I want that. I'm missing it. The whole way back, I couldn't get enough info. What do we

do? How do we do this? Where should we be? What can I do next? And basically, here I am transformed. right transformed a year and a half later to wear everything that I've been through in the last year and a half which has been a lot with a divorce and with health issues it just kind of I know God has my back so so I'll tell you why today I get I ordered an Uber to come over to your place right the first guy cancels okay second guy picks me up walks in he says hey I got something for you I don't say I didn't say anything to this guy he hands me a daily bread book which is Yeah, yeah. Gospel scripture readings.

Okay, scriptures, right? And he says, I just wanted you to have this. How are you doing? He starts talking to me. You're doing okay? I know if you're looking like you're a little tired, whatever. And I'm thinking of myself, who are you? I said to him, who are you?

You know me? He goes, no. He goes, I just had a feeling that I had to pick you up today. He drops me off. I mean, we spent 15 minutes together, powerful. God has done that. He has given me his favor in my life as I move. forward and I just want to I want to just radiate to that like how important that is to me and how

that has changed my life so when I sit and I get the platform like this which I'm so thankful that you agreed I know we had back and forth to get this scheduled yeah but I just want you to know how important this is to me and how valuable this is to my life and how valuable this is to be able to talk about this story and hopefully there's two or three people or 10 people or one person out there that hears this and says, damn, I want to make a difference in my life. Right. And I just had to tell you that because I think it's an important part of my testimony. Going through the trials and the tribulations that I've had in the last year and a half,

this is a good answer. You know, God is a good answer. And all the things that we do in our life, they're all kind of washed. As long as we look and say, yeah, I believe that there's a higher power. And for me, it's Jesus Christ. And I can walk that walk with him. I don't know, you know, there are people out there to listen to this

and say, this guy's full of shit, because we always have that. There's people out there to say, hey, he saved my life today. And that's kind of what I want to do. So all glory to God, that's where I'm at. Well, I think it's a touchy subject, but I think that

what is it? You know, it doesn't hurt. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, listen, some of the most miserable people I know, My, Bozac, John Bozac, you met him. Yes. Miserable. Total atheist doesn't believe, doesn't want to hear it, gets irritated, he is very unhappy.

My wife, who's been through thick and thin, just been through, you know, if you, if you think about someone raised in a meth, you know, methamphetamine environment, right? everybody's on meth everybody's in out of prison i mean you think about every horrible thing that can happen to a 12 year old girl has happened so you think about that you know and yet she's got a great attitude but she also you know is a huge believer in god uh you know we go to you know a church on sun not every sunday most sundays and i started going you know my mom fucking rock bro rock and i mean just went through shit I mean, just husbands and alcoholic, four fucking kids, you know, just a horrific situation for her. You know, my dad, not a believer, miserable, miserable, never could get a hold of his addictions, you know.

Yeah, so, I mean, it's like, even if you're wrong, it's so overwhelming, to me, like, I think, even if I'm wrong, like, I think, even if I'm wrong, it's so overwhelming. It's so overwhelmingly comfortable. Yes. What does it fucking matter? Yes. So you're wrong. Well, then I'm in the same position as the guy who didn't believe his whole life. But I'll tell you what, I'm going to have a better attitude than that guy.

I'm going to live my life better. Yeah, exactly. I feel better. I feel like I make better decisions. I feel like I have. And sometimes it's almost like being in prison, making a bunch of plans, not knowing how I'm going to get. This is where I want to go. And I need to do something every day towards that.

I don't know how I'm going to get there. but I'm going to try and if I never get there that's okay so that's kind of how I feel I love that right it's just faith I think it'll work out

and if it doesn't work out that's okay yeah that's okay it's okay it's funny whenever we go to church whenever Jess and I go to church and we used to go to a church a great church

which was in is in um is in is it's Bradenton I was gonna say seriously in Bradenton anyway so we used to go there but now it's it's an hour and 30 minute drive bro and maybe an hour and 45 minutes so it's like

if you want to go to church that's your whole day yeah yeah that it's hands down the best church but we just found another one that's actually in wesley chapel tiny but but really good you know i never go there thinking about you know praying or worshiping god i just go there to kind of just listen i never leave there not feeling better i'm having god Does that make sense? Oh, that makes perfect sense. You walk out and I just feel better about it. I don't have to believe in everything that this person is saying.

But overall, I never really hear anything I don't agree with either. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. Man, that's beautiful. Yeah, it is. You know, and it's like, for me, the church I go to is run by a former Michigan State wrestler. He's awesome. He talks to talk and walks to walk.

and you know there was something and I go to men's group which I think is helpful too they talk about being in the word you know praying and then having fellowship right so I think that's what you're talking about is sitting there is fellowship right even if you're not participating you are participating because you're part of their testimony

their trial you know and he said this one line that my head of my men's group say I think about it all the time forgiving people forgive people something we don't do Right. And we are forgiven. You know, so why can't we forgive others? Why do we get hung up on stupid shit every day in life? You know, and that changed my perspective on even like with my family. Here's the biggest thing. Like my kids have noticed a difference to the point where they're like, oh, Jesus freak. We got a Jesus freak. You know, whatever. And you know what? I thank God for that because I'm like, yeah, that's exactly right. And they're noticing a change. Right. Right. So if I can bring that to their life, because I didn't do it.

a great job the first 59 years their first 33 and 30 respectively. You know, do a great job. But now I do, and I think that's part of it, is forgiven people, forgive people. And the biggest person you could forgive is yourself. You know, is just say,

yeah, I made a lot of stupid mistakes. I did a lot of stupid things. I live differently, and I'm willing to live this way. I'm not willing to roll the dice that there isn't something that exists after. And it translates to the business world. It translates to this conversation. It translates to the guy picking me up. You know, the Uber guy picking me up. And the guy last night driving me to the airport said it was the same guy. It was another guy that we talked about religion. He's like, yeah, I'm a believer. You know, I changed my life. I was a raging alcoholic on Wall Street. And now I'm good. Oh, look. Can you imagine how many, like, it's funny how many of these guys go through these like rehabs and stuff. But the ones that have the best outcome are the faith-based ones. You know? Always.

Even if you're wrong. Yeah. You know, what does it matter? Like there's no harm in it. No harm in it. So it's a better lived life. I got to, for you. Yeah.

For you yourself and you bring more to other people by forgiving yourself. So I don't want to be a one-upper. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. So that's not me, this is not me being in one-upper. It's just something, it's just something that it's a story that I'm going to tell you real quick. Yeah.

And I'm going to cry, so you'd be okay. I'll probably cry, too. That's fine. Wait, no, I'm FBI. I can't cry. Sorry. Right. Well, you're not as emotionally damaged as I am.

So, but, so here, I got a story. When I was a mortgage broker. When I was becoming a mortgage broker. What, you know, how old were you journey? This is, oh, God, how, when was I? 2000 and, oh, no, I was sorry, 2000. What am I saying, bro? It's like 1990.

let's say. I think I got my license in 99. I could be wrong. It might have been 98 or 99. Anyway, so I go with my girlfriend, who's a stripper, and she met a guy at the strip club, and he wants her to become a mortgage broker, come work for his thing. She says, hey, you should be a mortgage broker. You should come with me. We could do this. She was already working there for a while. So we go and we go to Jim Montram's now. national mortgage origination school, right? It's one of the biggest mortgage broker training schools. So in Florida, you have to go, you have to go to a class first. It's like a, I forget how many hours it is. It's like a 24-hour course or something, whatever. You have to go to the course. You have to pass the course.

Then that, and that's, once you get your little certificate, you can apply and you can sign up for the state test. Then you go to the state test. So that's cool. So I go with her. and we go the first day, we're there, whatever it is, six or eight hours, you know, well, we weren't, we went that night. We went a Friday night, it starts at like six, so we go there for a few hours. Then the next day you show up at, like, let's say nine, and then it's, it's noon. So at noon, and I want to say it was the first day, maybe it was the second day, we see the instructor, Jim Montra.

And he's sitting over there at, we're at some restaurant close to, you know, where they have it like, you know, they have like a hotel where they live out of. a fucking room. So we're there. There's probably 40 people in there. There's 40 people. There's 20 of them went to this restaurant. He's there sitting, eating by himself. And I am not the kind of guy that feels bad for someone.

Okay. Especially at this time of my life, I was only concerned about me. And I looked over at him and I went, this instructor. And my girlfriend's like, right? And I went, let's go eat with him. And she goes, why? And I went, I don't know. I feel bad for him.

I said, he's just sitting there. I said, probably nobody ever eats with him. She says, nobody wants to eat with the instructor. She says, nobody wants to eat with the teacher. Nobody wants that. And I went, why? He said, he seems okay. She goes, he doesn't seem okay.

And I went, I feel bad for him. Let's go. And she goes, come on, get your stuff. Let's go. So she's like, oh, God. So we go over there. I go, hey, I said, you're in the instructor. And she's like, yeah, hey, what's up?

I said, yeah, I'm one of the students. I said, can we eat with you? And he goes, he said, I've been doing this 10 years. He said, I eat here every time. He said, nobody's ever asked to eat with me. And I said, really? And I sit down. We sit down.

We have lunch. Maybe the next day we had lunch with them, too. I don't recall for sure. We have this lunch. We talked for like an hour or so. He's like, God, we got to get back, you know. We go. We go back, finish the class, whatever.

I end up getting my certificate. I go a couple days later, take the test. I'm a mortgage broker. So I go on, go to work for this company. You know the rest of the story, right? Yes. Horrific, right? So get to a point, I go to prison.

My first, you know, when I first get arrested, I, of course, you know, cooperate. That doesn't do any good. I am interviewed by Dateline. Government doesn't want to give me any thing for that. I'm interviewed by American greed. Government doesn't want to do anything for that. I get a letter in the mail from Jim Mondram and says, I don't know if you remember me or not.

I keep on, I've now been locked up six years, almost seven years. There were three years on the run and there was about four or five years. This is about 10 to 12 years after that lunch. After that course. Right. And he says, you had lunch with me. he said and I recall he goes to this whole thing I remember the first time I saw you in first time I saw you in the newspaper I remembered your name I looked you up and sure enough

it was you I looked up in my schedule it was you or my on my old old records and it was you watched you read all the articles he said the entire economy by this point had collapsed right 2000 and this that was like 2008 yeah and he said 2008 2009 Dan uh Dodd-Frank goes into law. They've got a year or two before all these national schools. Now, every mortgage broker in the country has to have continuing education. He said, we teach the continuing education courses. We write the courses where I'm the largest national school.

And I would love to write a course for ethics and fraud with you. Because I've looked and looked, you're the only fraudster out there that I have. I can find that actually was licensed as a broker, owned a brokerage business, and then has committed, as far as I can tell, he said, pretty much every version of, there's about 10 basic frauds, every single one of them in some capacity. And I think you'd be ideal for this. And he said, can you call me? I call him.

He says, Matt, I said, look, can you call my lawyer? And I said, because I think maybe this could be used, maybe I could, something could happen. Yeah, definitely. For me, because this is something they would want me to do. I said, I'm going to do it no matter what, but he said, I am going to absolutely call your lawyer, calls my lawyer, calls the U.S. Attorney, schedules a meeting, he drives up, has a meeting with the U.S. attorney and my lawyer that does everything. He could have just said, okay, well, let me know. Yeah, right. Like, tell your lawyer to call. No, he says, no, I want to drive up and talk to her.

I want to convince her that this is a good thing. I want this guy to get help. I want him to get something off a sentence. Now, of course, you know that once I wrote that course, now the U.S. attorney comes back, says, absolutely, we'll reduce your sentence for this. Now, of course, she doesn't reduce my sentence for it. But in the end, what the way my Rule 35 was written up, because there was no arrests for my cooperation, the way it was written up was Mr. Cox was.

was interviewed by Dateline. He was interviewed by these people, but the main focus was he wrote an ethics and fraud course, which is used to train the nation's mortgage brokers, that over 100,000 mortgage brokers or something at that point, by the time we forced them to get me back and reduce my Senate. So, you know, one really odd act of kindness on my part, not seven years off my sentence.

Like, it was like, it was so, like, my, you, the, I remember my girlfriend's reaction to me was like, what are you, like, you know, why are we doing this? Like, this is not you. Yeah. And usually I just, I just felt like, no, I think we should sit with him. I don't know why. I don't care. I don't want to sit with the teacher. I want to eat my dinner or my lunch.

I want to go back. I want to get this over with. But I was like, you know. And so I go. And seven years. man right that's powerful so that decision changed your life it's funny too because and that guy took it to heart that guy did what he said he was going to do which let's face it how many people do that oh listen he had to he had to come see me because yeah he had to come see me several times

yeah um in the uh in the visitation room and then he came several times after that he would come like every year or two hey i was driving by i thought i might as well stop by and you know what it's like going to a prison you're not stopping by Yeah. It's a fucking, it's an hour and a half process to get in. Absolutely. It's horrible. They treat you like dog crap.

Then it's, you got to get out. It's so, yeah, good, good guy. That is awesome. I love that. Yeah. That decision. I mean, do you remember anything more than just, hey, I want to go sit with this guy? Was there anything else that kind of just happened?

No, it just something. And it was out of character. It was extremely out of, listen, I remember it was so out of character because my, my girlfriend was just like, what do you? Yeah. Yeah, this is in you. What do you, like, you don't, like, you're not an overly friendly person at that time, especially at that time of my life. Like, I mean, I went to prison and, you know, everything and I, and just kind of curbed my, you know,

I think just my outlook on life in general, you know, going through prison, going through everything and thinking, you know, if you have a second chance, you might want to stop being an asshole. It's not working out. Society has decided they don't want you in society anymore. maybe you should go another route. Yeah. So. How's that working out for you?

Yeah. Way better. Like just having a good outlook. And I tell it, it's funny, I tell this to my wife all the time. Somebody will text me and I'll text them back and I'll text this person back and I'll say something good about this person. Or I'll talk on the phone to some guy who's, man, can I just talk to you? I, you know, I like, and it's, I don't think it's, sometimes it's like spiritually based. Like somebody will be like, look, I'm having problems.

then they'll mention God during the conversation. Yeah. But most of the time it's like some young kid who's like, I don't know what to do in life, I don't know this, I don't know, and I'm like, yeah, yeah. And, you know, my wife is always kind of like, it's not that she's like, why are you doing that? Because she's not, because she's like, I think it's great that you do it. But she definitely, the person that showed up and she met in the halfway house, she's like, I would have never expected you to go out of your way for anybody.

You were so aggressive when you got to the halfway house. so, you know, I always say assertive, but so driven, so, you know, I don't have any time for that. I don't have time for this. And this is what I'm doing right now. And I still feel like that. And I'm like, well, you know, I said, let me put it into a perspective that you could probably look at as being something that I might be thinking. It's make it feel better. Make you feel better about the scumbag you're married is that I'm like, you never know what's going to happen, you know. You don't. Right. A random act of kindness can come back to you tenfold. Now I'm not doing it for that.

But I do lots of things all the time. I talk to people. I respond to emails. I respond to comments. I tell people, you know, things that's important. Look, even if you want to say, okay, well, you're a selfish prick. Okay, great. Then I'm a selfish prick.

I'm trying to do it. Why? Because it makes me feel good about me. So hopefully it helps him. But, you know, maybe primarily it's just because it makes me feel good. And that's okay. That's okay. Because you don't know what's going to happen with that guy.

I got guys that comment with me and talk about in the comments that will say, they talk to me on the phone and I didn't have, there was no reason. or I help them fix their credit for no reason or they've got 750 credit scores they're buying a house because they talked to me three years ago on the phone after seeing me on concrete or whatever.

It's like it takes me three fucking minutes. I know and it feels good. And again, it's that forgiven people, forgive people. That's what it is, man. You know, it's big time on that side. It truly is. You know, I think that this kind of stuff helps people,

you know, and I think that's why they're reaching out to you because they do need help and they're not sure exactly what part of their life they need to help in. Well, you know, it's funny because in the comments, every, for every guy that says something negative about, I don't want to hear about God or I didn't fucking comfort that. I want to hear and talk to criminals or I want to this or there's, there's some guy that's going to leave a comment that's going to be like, yo, bro.

Yep, this helped me. I'm the one. Right. I'm the one. It'll be a bunch of those ones. I had a woman that wrote me, wrote me an email, bro, I don't even think I, I don't even know if I responded to this. I know I talked to when I read the email to my wife.

Actually, I read it to a Zach, too. I read to Zach. I couldn't even fucking read it without hearing up. Yeah, it's tough. And the guy, she was saying that in the last six weeks or eight weeks, she had had chemo, like twice a week or something. And she goes, and she listens to my podcast. And she said, you have no idea how much you inspired me to get through. Damn.

And she was saying, if you could get through prison, I could get through this. Like, prison is nothing compared to chemo or can. like what are you talking about but she was talking about what a good outlook I have and blah blah blah I was just like that's what there it is I mean that's it in a nutshell that's delusional like I was I would think you're going you've got cancer like oh my God but you know the fact that she said like you got me through this like yeah that's nuts bro it's nuts but it's great stuff I mean that's why we're doing this you know I mean that's just part of giving back oh I remember and you don't even think about it you know like you're looking how many how many people look at comments like I know I know you do I know Julian does I know Danny does and they do it makes a difference especially for you know you know people that are aspiring to do more but just don't think they have a possibility of ever doing more and that's the beauty like getting

and there's different ones that I look at and I'm like I have to respond to this you know I've had that happen already in a year I've had that people saying hey I just want to I want to talk to you about like you know life choices right career path right the FBI you know the CIA the army

that's beautiful to be able to just do that and help I never I was the same way I never would find I don't have time for anybody everybody's an asshole you know this person's an idiot you know this person did this I mean I don't have time for that I'm I'm Jim Deoria I'm a West Point graduate I don't need to fucking talk to you right you know that worked out great you know truly two divorces later and you know and and a pain in the ass you know with my health so but we're getting there yeah I was going to say yeah I got I got a life of fucking decisions that have culminated in yeah a kid that won't talk to me I got fucking It's funny, like, I got, there's all kinds of things that it's just like, I don't even know what I did to this person. This person hates my guts. I don't remember, I felt like I was always pretty cool to this person, you know. Yeah, no, they just, they have their own reasons and, you know, you're just, you just happen to be that, that, uh... I feel like I probably did something.

Like, you know, are they just projecting their shit on you, you know? I was going to say, and if people call you an asshole, you're probably an asshole, you know, 40, 50 people, like, I got to have to think like... Yeah, I might be. Yeah. It could be. Yeah. No, definitely, man. Tell me about, now, that rule 35, I was thinking about that.

We had talked a little bit about that. Right. Previously. Do I just not coming out of my nose? Do I need to go? No, you look good. You look fine. Sorry.

I like you. All right. Tell me about 35. What is that again? It's post-sentencing. Yes. Cooperation credit. Yes.

Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, I was thinking about a couple of cases I had that started based on that post-sentencing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cooperation, you know, going forward. It's funny, I got this guy who's like a YouTuber, TikToker guy

who's going to come on in like a month from now. And he was asking me, he's like, bro, and he's all like jacked up and he's all tatted up and done a bunch of state prison time. And he's like, bro, I want to talk to you about that. I'm like, okay, do you mind talking about it? No. And he said, he said, because I'm super curious about that. Like, how does that work?

About the 35. Yeah, and I was, he's like, you know, he's like, and you're the only person I know that's like totally. open and would answer my questions because I'm really curious. I was like, yeah, bro, I got no problem with it. He said, um, you know, I think I even said, I said, look, and if you're not okay with it, I said, you can tell me that too. I said, I'm ready to dig in and argue about it. And he was, he's like, nah, I said, you know, I've never really faced that kind of time. So I don't really judge. He's like, but I never did anything like that. I think he said, but honestly, he said,

he said, I was going to a place where guys stab each other over over stuff like that. He said, so he said, uh, don't. He said, that's, that's not a. at all. I'm just really curious. Like, how does it even work? Yeah. Well, first you have to have something to offer. So, yeah. You've got to have some good info, you know. And like, you did have great info and look how long it took you. You get somebody to listen, you know. God, what about those fucking choices? Like, if I'd stayed in Tampa, I'd probably gotten four or five years. If I just stayed the first time, like, no, fuck you guy. Fuck you, coppers. You know, I'm going to go on

the run. You'll never catch me three years later. And then I'm like, okay, well, now I want to cooperate. No, now we're having in the middle of a meltdown. And you're cooperation is nothing compared to this banker that we're investigating and lost $800 million or this guy may last half a billion dollars. It's like, why are we going after your pittance? Right. You know, so it's like, oh my God, like my fallback plan doesn't work. Now what? So, like I said, thank God I sat down. Oh, by the way, you know the other thing? Jim Montram also, also at my Rule 35 came and testified at my- spoke on your behalf? Absolutely. That's pretty cool, too. Yeah. And he didn't have to. no um so yeah uh oh god he was so funny i i remember my lawyer sorry my lawyer i was like listen

do me a favor do not wing this i said talk to this guy beforehand get him i said explain the question and this is all when i first met her okay this is it was like four months later before i meant at i'm actually in the courtroom and i said i'm asking you don't wing it she's no i I don't wing it. I'm very prepared. I this. I said, okay, I get it because, you know, you put these guys on the stand. Like, I want you to know what to say. I want to, I want to really go. She said, be thorough. Like, I really, I can write out the questions for you and I help you. I'd like to see what you want to ask. She's like, absolutely. Just beforehand, I said, have you ever written out any questions? And she goes, I'm still working on mine. Why don't you send

me yours? So I send her questions. Yeah. And she comes back. And so the next day when I'm there, because I kept saying, are you coming to see me? Wait, she was still working on hers the day before? No, no, no, no. Yeah, no, no, like a week before, I'm at the... So she hadn't done shit. She didn't done anything. So by the time I actually go to the courthouse now.

And I'm saying, I'm like, what, do you have anything laid out, planned out? And she went, um, you know, I looked at your questions. I thought they were pretty good. I'm just going to go with yours. And I went... Oh, my God. So she didn't do you shit. No, I go, have you prepared anything?

I said, did you talk to Jim Montram? Did you talk to the FBI agent? She's like, no, I'm, I can go talk to Jim now. But I feel like he's just going to tell what happened. And I was like, so she was, I hate to have anything written down, Matt, because she said, I don't want it to seem rehearsed. I wanted to seem kind of, and I went, she was kind of. It's got to be rehearsed. Right.

You got to get the points across. I looked at her and I said, so you're just going to kind of wing it. And she goes, well, yeah, I mean, I, and she, you can see in her, in her mind, she realized, oh, shit, that's what he said last time. And she went, Matt, it's going to be fine. And I was like, uh-huh. She gets Jim Montram on the stand, and he sits there and says, he goes through everything that happened. Then, so he's like, oh, listen, it was a, that time, that period of time was the Wild West. These guys were doing all kinds.

Everybody was making W-2's paystups. Lots of people were doing these things, lots of people, this, this is. So he's like, it was very common, a lot of corruption, especially in subprime loans. And, you know, the bankers, he starts talking about the bankers, this, bankers at. So then when the U.S. attorney gets on the stand, So he did say, because he had softball question, and she gets him on the stand. She starts talking. She said, so lots of people were making W2 to pay some.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And he says, she said, so lots of people were getting five and six mortgages on their houses, changing deeds, stealing houses, pulling out of equity. She said, committing fraud against banks for millions and millions of dollars. And he was, oh, no, no. He was way out of line on that. Oh, my God. Just smoked me.

I just, what, like, I was like, I went, I looked at her, and I go, this is why you don't wing it. Exactly. And she was like, and she sat there and I said, do you going to say anything? She's no, it'll be fine. The dude just, the guy that's testifying for you just said, yeah, that's way out of, oh my God. What the fuck. He didn't mean, you know, he didn't mean anything by, but he didn't, if she had, if she had said, look, she may say something. And he would have gotten that response.

She would have gotten that response in the rehearsed portion of it. Yeah, it would have been fine. Oh, how funny. You know what I was thinking when you said that about the W-2s and all the forms? So we had a public corruption case that a little side portion of the public corruption case was this dude. He was a local bank bank manager. Right. And he was just a beaten down man.

Like, you know, he just wanted a little bit of fun in his life. Right. So part of this corruption case was this business owner, a builder by trade. I won't even say trade. A builder by name owned a couple strip joints in New Jersey. And part of this banker's kind of help and assistance was, hey, anytime we need a loan for the girls to get breast jobs or anything else, you will be the guy we go to. And they don't have any income on the books. They don't have any collateral.

They don't have any job history. Can you make it work? You said, sure, I'll make up the shit. You know, no problem. So he became, after that, the boob, wane the boob banker to them. You know, so when we actually went and approached him, and he had done, I mean, he had, and what was he getting like a hand job here, a blow job there, whatever it was, right? At the end, and a couple hundred bucks shoved in his sport coat, you know,

one Friday night when he was boozing it up and spending it there anyway. So when we went to approach him, and it was a huge case, but this was just a side, but we had to go with it, went to approach him, he's like, what's this about, you know, trying to play it? I go, hey, we just wanted to say hello to the boob banker. And he just turned white, man. He just started sweating. So we're like, you're going to give it up now? He goes, yeah, but it was only for about 35 or 40 girls.

That's all I did to the tune. And I said, what, what tit job is 15,000, $25,000, $35,000 back in 1998? None. No. So what were you doing? $4,500? What were you doing with the other, you know, 10 or 15 or $20,000? He goes, well, I got to live.

Oh, my God. So it was like, bro, I would just shut your mouth. if I were you, not say another word, and, you know, you're being charged now with this bank fraud. So it was, it was unbelievable. But I was thinking about, you know, just, and he had every, every file was papered perfectly, same W2 format, you know, the same kind of, you know, rent agreements and leases and all the shit that they needed to qualify for the job. Yeah, and nobody ever made a payment. And the bank had actually wound up with Shrewsbury State Bank in New Jersey. It actually wound up closing that branch based on the fact that.

he was doing it all over the state and no one knew about it. So we just opened up the door to that happening. But it was phenomenal. The case was amazing. It was a guy named Anthony Spolero who's since passed. But I think one of the funniest stories about Spolero. So Spolero was paying off politicians

basically to get approvals for housing developments all over New Jersey. And some of the towns that he worked in are now so absolutely saturated with homes and the tax base is nothing. And so the towns are like basically falling apart. you know and so now you have traffic infrastructure's not prepared for it the schools are overrun all based on this guy you know doing it but but some of the some of the funniest things i think during his uh sentencing kind of um hearing which as you know sentencing hearings maybe maybe 15 minutes maybe 20 minutes at most because everything's worked out his was almost three and a half hours because he had conditions supposedly that we're going to send him up to either fort devons mass in the hospital or

and the Bureau of Prisons Hospital facilities, medical facility, or he was going to just sit at home and get treated. He had all kinds of, he had Parkinson's, supposedly he had Parkinson's and low infraction, ejection fraction, and all this kind of thing. It was like banging everything.

He shook through the whole thing, like purposely. And we had one of the best, I think one of the best defense attorneys in the country, Michael Critchley out of New Jersey, Critchley was questioning the doctor who was in charge of the Fort Devon, medical facility for Bureau of Prisons. He was the guy.

He was the guy that made all the decisions. Critchley, two hours, he crossed this guy about, well, what would you do if he does this and this happens? What kind of medication would you add? And the guy, finally, like, after two hours, the guy said, I don't know. I don't know. He said, are you even a doctor? And a guy said, I think so.

And I just looked at my partner and said, you know, this guy's not going to jail, right? He goes, yeah, absolutely. And Spillero was doing to shaken. And finally, the judge just anthony. Thompson, she, a great judge, she's, okay, listen, you know, we're not going to send you to prison, Mr. Spillero. We're going to just, yeah, whatever. And he, the shaken stopped, and he said, oh, thank you very much.

And he just got up and walked out. It's a classic. And we were like Spolero. And then we had part of that, too, the one place where he ran all of the stuff out of was this place called Heartbreakers down in the Jersey Shore area. Right. And supposedly, you all was wrong properly. Yeah.

Well, properly, there's no, I mean, his manager, this dude, Greg Russo, Greg Russo is telling us, listen, we don't mess around here. You know, there's no nudity. There's nothing going on. This is just entertainment for guys who are trying to burn off some, you know, excess energy and have a couple of cocktails and just kind of look at, you know, we have a liquor license, so they can't do this, they can't do that. So we're like, okay, and we're up in his office, and he's looking at cameras,

hold on one minute, you know, let me look, let me see here. Yep, none of that, none of that silly stuff goes on. All of a sudden, there's a knock at the door, right? And he says, come in two naked strippers. And they're like, it's lunchtime, Gregie. And he just said, oh, shit, that wasn't supposed to happen. So I'm like, so Greg, you're not doing any of that crap up here, you know, full of shit? And so it's just like that case was unreal.

And it turned into a huge case. I mean, we went up putting almost 67 politicians away. Oh, wow. And a whole bunch of rabbis who were laundering cash for, what we believe at the time, this cartel time. So, yeah, in Brooklyn, Brooklyn Cash Houses. We hit a Brooklyn cash house. It was like $7.5 million.

And the guy who was doing it, the rabbi who was there in charge of it, said, you should have hit me yesterday. I had like $28 million. We're like, you're not really supposed to say that. You know, and there he is. He's like, don't touch me. You're not supposed to touch me. You know what I mean?

Because I'm a man of the cloth. Londering money. He's like, yeah, but don't touch me anyway. So when we arrested that dude, when we put the handcuffs on him, you know he said you can't touch me so i put the handcuffs on yourself so he did he put the handcuffs and i could tell right away he put him on too tight right so he looks at me he's like these i said i can't touch you bro yeah just like turning blue his fingers and turning blue i finally had to take them off but just so much funny shit you know going on in jurs getting a little um you know

i was thinking about just a bunch of cases when you were talking you know just some good stuff bob torselli the senator from new jersey right crazy i mean a guy got off a couple days before we were going to, we were actually going to indict him several days after, the Thursday after the Tuesday of 9-11, the 13th of September. And Mary Joe White, who was the U.S. attorney in New York for the Southern District, she said, look, I can't, I can't indict a sitting U.S. Senator, like, why this building is burning. Right. You know, and in the meantime, you look at the proofs we had, everything that we had going on. Great. I mean, we had a very accurate informant who just was crazy, so it was difficult for.

for anyone to believe him, but every time he said something, it was corroborated easily. Right. And I think one of the best ones is he calls us up, he goes, and listen, there's a guy, a garbage guy in Bergen County, New Jersey that is famous for putting people in woodchipper and they just disappear. And he just, I just saw him at 7-11, up in Fort Lee, New Jersey.

I was making my coffee. I was in there, I put hazeln-knuck cream, I was stir the coffee. In comes Senator Torrescelli. Bob Torricelli comes in. He's got his jet jacket on. He's telling us this whole thing. You know, he pours in the creamer,

and he says, next thing you know, Jimmy Demetrakis comes in. He's going to take me, throw me in the garbage truck and then throw me in a wood chipper because I'm cooperating. And we're like,

my boss looks at me, he goes, dude, you got to go up and straighten this out. This guy's lying. This is why we're never going to be able to use him. Right. So no problem.

So we go up to the 7-11, and I'm like, hey, you guys, by chance, have video, you know, 24 hours. All right, I'll grab you a subpoena or whatever. Nah, just take it, look at it. So they make us a copy. Go back to the office. Now the cooperator, David Chang, he's kind of kneeling down in front of the TV looking. And we plug the thing in. And here comes the video. Do you know, exactly.

There he is. He goes, there I am stirring my coffee. Hazelnut. Here comes Bob. It was exactly what happened. They're trying to pull him out. There's a garbage truck parked in front. It was insane. So, you know, here's a sitting U.S. Senator fucking looking to, you know, whack witnesses back and they never got charged and now he's he's working for the EPA he basically does all the the super fund um cleanups so court ordered federally court ordered super fund cleanups he can imagine how he's in charge of that yeah so he's a 10% guy gets this guy my buddy's company this buddy's company gets 800k for just saying hey I'm going to give this to so and so

whatever never never really you know was censored basically was slap on the wrist by the Senate and told not to run again. That was like a party decision. He was a Democrat from New Jersey, a long time sitting U.S. senator there. Right. You're not going to, not a chance. You know, you're not going to be able to run again,

but you're not going to get touched. And we had his defense attorney, Ted Wells, who's one of the most famous defense attorneys. He did a bunch of different, a bunch of high upper level politicians who he defended along the way. We allowed Ted Wells to walk around the search warrant of Bob Torres-Silly's home

in Englewood, New Jersey. Jersey. We allowed him to walk with the attachment base. So seeing exactly what we were looking for. Right. Here it is. He was walking with me. He would walk up and go, holy cow, this is exactly, I've never seen corroboration like this on a search warrant. Like this, this guy's done. And this is his own attorney. Yeah. The best part was all these custom made suits in his closet, Chang had explained exactly what order they're going to be in by color. Here's what's going to be. This is going to be a plaid one. I said, David, how do you know that? He goes, because my tailor, from Bergen County would come down

into the congressional dining hall and measure Torricelli and basically say and the way Torricelli would just say hey I like that pattern you have on today right give me two of those give me three of those there they were like I'm talking $2,000 suits in 1999

that were just lined up in his closet 50 or 60 of them cash handed in newspapers to him two Mercedes-Benz the informant seemed insane it seemed insane And so, and then he winds up, we wind up putting him and he had to go to jail to do his part. We show up at his, his plea, and we tell him, and he had a strong Korean accent.

We tell him, David, they're going to go through this. You have to answer these questions. Now, this is stuff we already talked about, right? And we had this campaign finance task force to AUSAs, two federal prosecutors that had come up to just do this case. They were there for two and a half years with us. listen we're going to ask these questions it's a little embarrassing because you've got to admit to doing things

nope I'm fine I am fine he says I am fine we sit down to start doing the thing David did you do this David did you commit obstruction of justice and the thing was you know basically when we went in to search his place originally he had shredded some documents

so we have to have that David because it's important for the charge against the senator if we don't have the obstruction it's going to be really difficult for us to charge a senator no problem the problem. As soon as they asked that, he gets up, who said that? Who said I commit to? And he just starts freaking out. So one of the lawyers just closes his briefcase and goes, we are going to trial. He starts like walking out. Then finally Chang kind of got under control. And we kind of

explained to him, hey man, you know, you got to take this plea. Okay, let's do it. He says, let's do a do-over. So well, it's not the way it works. So we got to come back another point. Well, I'll do a do-over. You know, not a problem. But then he became so like, he became very paranoid about the senator trying to do things like kill him. And, you know, there's people putting bombs on my lawn. So once that happened, we're like, shit, we're not going to be able to pass this case along. But we were going to indict it.

We were going to indict a sitting U.S. senator based on great corroboration. Like, we had independent sources that were saying. That's exactly what happened. Right. Like, legit people, exactly what happened. So it's just interesting how when you think the spectrum of the world or the way the history of the world and the timing of things. Yeah.

How some things just go away and some things they continue to say, or we continue to say, so focused. Yeah. Just like they would have gone and swept up 12 or 15 of my co-conspirators, except there's the, it's the middle of the financial crisis. There you go. So it didn't want, they didn't want to show that there's a bigger issue than, they didn't want to make out a bigger issue, which was a bigger issue.

Right. Because they wanted to kind of keep things under. Did they? Sorry, did you guys end up giving him cooperation? We did. So his sentence went from 120 months down to like 36 months, but he died in jail. He died of liver cancer. That sucks.

So he died, you know, young guy, I mean, really had, he had, and the thing, this is the best part. So the way the senator, the way the senator got him to pay those bribes in the graph that he provided was he, he told him so Chang had always said I had a grain deal with North Korea okay so we're like dude you never had that

right you know it's impossible nope I had it and we were going to find you know missing and the guys that were missing in action from Korean War I had this whole deal and the sent and they said well who made you who told you that that was true like who told you that that happened Senator Torcelli

he said he had connections in North Korea he can make that happen. All I had to do is pay him. That's, I was going to say, that's like the, that's like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, um, the, the, the, um, the, the, the, um, with him, he ends up getting hooked up or getting indicted on a bribery charge. Mm-hmm. And he was taking bribes from a guy telling him he could get his tow truck company, the tow truck, um, contract for Hillsborough County.

You have nothing to do with the tow. with it. That's like the sheriff has to do with that. Absolutely. Nothing to do with you. Nothing. You're a counselor over here, you know, and he just, but the guy, they're paying him all this money. Absolutely. So he's saying I'm, oh, I think I can do it. I can stop having meetings or whatever. Oh, he was saying it was basically his decision. I'll make a phone call. It'll happen. Absolutely. It's like a lulling issue. You know, even thinking back, so many of those things had happened. Like we had a guy named Harvey Smith, who was a Jersey City, New Jersey council person who we jammed. up same kind of thing taking money predicated taking money we went up paying him three or four

times solomon duke who was a long time source for the bureau um we went to paying him several times he goes to trial at trial he gets he gets acquitted at trial because the jury said well um i mean we didn't really believe he could do what he said he could do so how could we find him guilty you know taking bribes to do it took bribes to do it and then not only that we We asked, when we pulled the jury, what about him jumping on the phone and talking to the commissioner of the Department of Transportation in Jersey? Right. So he's trying to get in time.

Like, he's talking to the person. Right. So you don't even need that for it to be a crime. Right. All you need to do is him say, I'll agree that I'll do that and return for some type of cash. Well, in the way the money was flicked into his car. That's not. Basically, the prosecutor said it was a forward with the envelope, but we saw it on the video.

wasn't really just kind of dropped it. Dude, it doesn't matter how he got the money. That's when a good defense attorney comes in. Oh, dude. There would be so many times, this guy, Michael Critchley, same guy. I would sit and I was crossed by him probably six or seven times. Scared the shit

out of me every time. And I don't get easily befuddled. I was like stammering. Right. But during Critchley's openings, at my case that I had worked on for, you know, two years, every day of my life. There were times in the opening when I'd be like, oh shit, maybe this guy didn't do it.

I mean, that is a powerful fucking piece, right? Maybe, maybe this, is it possible this guy didn't do it when I knew, I mean, I had tapes and video and everything else. It just was amazing how he would walk you down that path. Same thing. He did the doctor. You know, here's a guy that's a distinguished member of the medical community. It's saying, I'm not sure if I'm a doctor. Basically, and I'm thinking, holy crap, you know, it's amazing. It's funny at Coleman, the doctors that they have at the Bureau of Prison. Like, we used to say the leading cause of, the leading cause of death at Coleman was medical. Like, I mean, they gave so many people the wrong medicine or didn't give them the medicine they were supposed to get or said, wait till tomorrow, wait till tomorrow.

And the guy died that night because he had an asthma attack because they wouldn't give him his inhaler. I mean, it was like, oh, yeah, it's tomorrow. Tomorrow, bro, I want to have an asthma attack. Exactly. I'll be dead tomorrow. be dead tomorrow. They're like, you'll be fine. You'll be fine tomorrow. Yeah. You're at a level such and such. That's not that bad. It's the top. It's the top one. What are you talking about?

Yeah. And, uh, yeah. But anyway, I think, you know, what's funny is I've known like a bunch of people obviously have gone in the military. And they're all going in and they always think, well, they're going to train me. And then I'll get out and I have all these job skills. And it's like, you're, you're really not. Like your job skills are law enforcement, corrections. You know, those are your, that's what they're training. No, no, no, no, I'm going to do this. I understand.

But the systems that they're using are typically kind of antiquated, right? Like, they don't move as quickly as. Well, it's hard to translate it, right? I mean, it's hard to translate. Well, I, you know, I fired a howitzer, 155 round down range for three years. But even if they're doing something technical like communications, the equipment's still not, it's not the updated equipment. So you're being retrained. Exactly.

And it's people skills, man. Like, you know, anything else is. You don't need a ton of people skills. The leadership. It's the leadership side. You know, coming out of the military. For me, West Point, the people that I stood shoulder to shoulder with there and understanding their skills and kind of taking some of what they did

and kind of placing it into my holster. Right. And then also providing what I could, you know, to say, hey, here's a better way to do things. That has led us down a great path. Like the class of 1986 is a powerful class within the Service Academy community, within the West Point community. I mean, we go everywhere from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who is my Beast Barrack's roommate, which is the first six weeks at West Point. That was great.

I mean, amazing guy, funny as hell. And, you know, I mean, very well could run for president in the next 10 years. You had dudes like Steve Cannon who ran Mercedes-Benz, a great friend. Joe DePinto, who's 7-Eleven's CEO, some incredible leaders in the middle. military, you know, three, four-star generals who led divisions in combat. So when I look at that, that's what I kind of garnered in, and I took that, translated that over to federal law enforcement. And it worked out nicely. You know, it really did. And I knew that corporate America, I just didn't feel it. I never really felt it. Even retiring from the FBI, you know, I had some job opportunities

to be a chief security officer at a big company. Right. I looked at it and I was like, Holy shit. I mean, I'm going to be miserable. You know, nine to five doing the same thing. Hey, we really should do a security audit. Hey, you know, there's some, hey, don't piggyback. When you have your badge, make sure you close the door behind you. Oh, yeah, I want to spend years doing that. You know, please, help me out.

Who was it we interviewed that, was it, was it an FBI agent that when they retired, they went to a little tiny sheriff's, went and worked for like a little sheriff down? I think that was the guy who lives down. like Fort Myers. The guy who introduced you to Raymond Hicks, was that him? Yeah, yeah, I think so. And he was like, he's like, like, bro, I came from the FB. Or no, it was U.S. Marshals.

He's like, he said, and now you're, you've got 40 guys. He's like, you know, and then he's like, so I just, he said, I mean, I did it for like six months. I was like, I just can't do this. Yeah, and you know it. Right. And he, you know it right away. Right.

You know, you do. And I think for me, just the process of those interviews. reviews to like talk to people about what and I'm not I'm not discounting anybody's passion and what they do but to think about you know hey we're missing you know four pallets of copy paper right this month and you better get on that shit you know oh yeah I'm going to jump on that right and I'm going to be happy about it you know I just it wasn't me it wasn't me especially off of some of the stuff I had done in the bureau some of the stuff I had been exposed to, you know, along the way in the military, it just didn't make any sense to me.

And I would have been an unhappy soul. And so not saying I'm not an unhappy soul anyway, but for the most part, you know, it was the right call. It was the right call going into my own business. And now things are starting to really pick up nicely. All right. Good stuff, dude. I can do this all day. I mean, I could too, but I'm thinking we should probably wrap it up because we're going back and forth back and we're covering some of the same stuff over. Yeah, I think so. What do you think? I don't know.

I love it. I love it. This is fantastic. Listen, some people will love this and some people will be like, bro, wrap it up. Anyway, what else? What else? We should. You're going to see Danny while you're here?

No? I am not going to see Danny. I don't have plans to because I've got a quick. Bustamante? Andy, I should see. Oh, I thought you were doing something with him, though. Well, he's, I'm doing. I'm running his event.

So he may or may not show up. He's got a bunch going on. So I'm running his event on Friday, Saturday, which would be great. And then onto a client or two in Jacksonville. So we've got good stuff going on. Much more to come. You're staying in, you're retired, obviously. I am retired, keeping my own business, J3,

but we're working a lot with everyday spy. I think you'll see a definite crossover in 24, pretty good. And you're staying in New Jersey, though? Staying in Jersey, right now, Jersey Shore. Not going to move down to here? Not yet. It's so expensive, bro. I know, it is expensive.

My kids are still there. There's all those Democrats have been there. I know. Blue State. I know. What are you thinking? The ocean's beautiful up there, though. It's beautiful down here, too.

Yeah, the kids are, my grandson and my daughter and son-in-law and my son, and his girlfriend. So I got to step there for a little bit of time. Plus, I got a new love interest, which is awesome. So I think I finally got it right. Well, I know I got it right. Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's see what happens.

Yeah, when I got out of prison, like, I wouldn't even thinking about, I kind of figured, like, that part of your life's over. Yeah. You know, you don't think to be in your 50s and fall in love. No, I'm 60. Yeah. For me. To me, I thought, that's over.

No, I thought the same thing. I was like, okay, I got, you know, two divorces, two tough ones. And then I'm like, yep, I'm good being alone. So I stayed alone for a year, man. Yeah. And then I met this girl and I'm like, holy cow. But I think to me, like now I realize how badly I did it before. Yeah.

Not that I'm still doing bad thing or doing stupid things, you know. I'm still probably not as attentive. I don't tell her she's beautiful enough. I don't do a lot of the stupid shit I should do that. I blow off, but it's probably extreme. I know it's extremely important. Definitely. And you make an effort at that more.

Definitely. But at least now I realize that those are my problems and not, oh, you're this, you're that. Now, now all of those are my problem. Yep. I think when you start taking responsibility that everything is your problem. It's important. Everything is you. Yeah.

It's life changing. Changes everything. It does. Your perspective changes. And you're like, yep, all this is, these are all my issues, all my negative core beliefs coming back. Yeah. You know, and I don't want to dirty somebody. else up kind of thing not good yeah so we're doing good look for uh check us out you know

check us out on uh on everyday spy and what is is that that's his that's his company does he has a youtube channel he does yeah he's got uh everyday spy youtube he's got um he's got a website everyday spy dot com yep and then um me um i'm i'm just like starting out my branding but you can find me on uh linkedin so hit me up with a note if i can help you I'd love to help. Hey, if you like the video, do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so get notified of videos just like this. Please leave me a comment.

Also, check the description box. We're going to leave all of Jim and Andy's links in there. And please consider joining my Patreon. It's like 10 bucks a month. Really does help. Thank you very much. See you.