Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - FBI's most wanted 'Cryptoqueen’ Behind Alleged $4 Billion Ponzi Scheme

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

FBI's most wanted 'Cryptoqueen’ Behind Alleged $4 Billion Ponzi Scheme

That's what's at the center of this entire story is that she didn't have a product. She had a marketing machine. She tapped into that thing that's inside of so many people, which was definitely inside of her, which is like, I want more, right? It's ambition. And she promised people and anyone who could just take the blinders off could see, well, this doesn't even make sense. It was never legitimate. I mean, you had a basic concept that you were pitching, but you never even tried to, this thing was never legitimate.

This was always a scam for her. It was always going to be a scam. Had she timed her scam 18 months later, she could have made 10 times as much money. I mean, they basically say, in bold caps, this is a Ponzi scheme. Our exit strategy is take the money and run. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Josh America's attorney, and we are going to be discussing the crypto queen and the scam.

And we're going to be discussing where she's at. So I appreciate you watching and check this out. Raja, Ruggia. Ruggia. Ignatova, I got to call her the crypto queen because it's a totally awesome name. and she dubbed herself that and that's like kind of to me the most important fact of this whole story. I don't feel like you get to you get to dub yourself.

Well, you shouldn't be able to, when I was in prison, I tried to push the name chainsaw. Nobody would call me chainsaw. Okay. You know, they say, well, what do they call you? I go, chainsaw. and they would look guys would be like like no man stop bro no maybe hand saw yeah you're not a chainsaw okay so i know that you've seen the signfeld episode where george decides that he wants to be called t-bone right yes so they go to lunch and he

orders a t-bone steak and uh then somebody beside him orders the t-bone steak and they decide to call that guy t-bone and george is like no i order the t-bone first i get to be called t-bone it's the coolest nickname what they end up calling him later in the episode they see him like dancing in the hallway stomping and maybe he has a banana in his hand they end up calling him Coco the monkey you definitely don't get to pick your own nickname no but she did and that actually is kind of that's what's at the center of this entire story is that that she didn't have a product. She had a marketing machine.

She tapped into that thing that's inside of so many people, which was definitely inside of her, which is like, I want more, right? It's ambition. And she promised people and anyone who could just take the blinders off could see, well, this doesn't even make sense. She even says that. Did you see the thing?

Did you read the, Department of Justice press release where they pulled excerpts where she even says this doesn't work with smart people. Yes. Yes. Our customers are crazy and idiots.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she was blatant about it. And what I thought, you know, yeah, like you said, it was it was hype, the MLM aspect of it, which is what I was saying was interesting because I actually spoke with a guy from Canada who investigates MLMs. And you might be interested in talking with him.

It's a really nice guy. We did a, I don't know, whatever, a remote interview like this. Yeah. Super nice guy. Does MLMs can tell you all about them, has an interesting story of how he got into it, how they basically like brainwashed his best friend and his best friend of course invited him and as soon as he's like literally like I'm texting this guy all the time we're best friends for like years super close he goes I go to one of the meetings I'm as we're in the meetings I knew it didn't sound right he was I start looking it up I start seeing all these things about it being kind of a scam it's a you know it's a pyramid and he goes so then when he comes he goes what do you think he goes yeah bro he's like look I looked up a bunch of stuff on And honestly, this just doesn't sound right. He said he immediately said, you know what?

He's like, you're just a hater. You're just so want to see people succeed. He says all the normal things. And then he said literally walked away and has never spoken to me about it since. Okay. So that's a really extreme example, right? Yeah. But there is a sense in which great marketing, great brand.

builds this level of commitment which draws a line in the sand and says you're with us or you're against us, right? People that drive Chevy trucks, what do they think about people who drive Toyota Tundras? I mean, of course, they're garbage. My girlfriend hates Fords. Yes.

Why? Yeah. One of the most popular Ford trucks in the world. They work great. What's the problem? Yeah. it's a it's a fascinating thing when a person like ignitova or a brand a product can tap into this thing inside of us that wants something more something different in our lives and like it changes you you get connected to it and now it's a part of you and this like it broke down this friendship that you're talking about right yeah um So this is horrible, but, you know, like most Ponzi schemes don't, not that this isn't, well,

in a way, it could be a Ponzi. It is kind of, it is a Ponzi scheme. I mean, yeah, the Department of Justice has straight up labeled it as a Ponzi. They said they took early money, I mean, they took secondary money and gave it to early investors to prove that they were making money. Right, right. Just as a part of the, as the part of the, like I call it, the maintenance as maintenance for the scam. You have to maintain the scam for the longer you can maintain the illusion, the more sellable the scam is.

But so what's interesting is most Ponzi schemes don't start off as Ponzi schemes. It's typically a legitimate investment strategy that goes wrong and they typically were like, we had a bad quarter and then they cover it because they're afraid to tell their investors because they'll pull out and then the whole business collapses and they're like, shoot. and they're like usually it's some kind of anomaly they're like it was an anomaly it won't happen again we'll make up for it over the next six months and then something else goes wrong and then so what ends up happening is ultimately they just get deeper and deeper and it collapses in and on itself

because they can't maintain it well most of them start off legitimate what i admire about hers is that it didn't it was never legitimate which is kind of like, I'm putting an asterisk by the word admire, but go on. Which is, you know, I mean, it was kind of the Charles Ponzi thing where like it was never legitimate. I mean, you had a basic concept that you were pitching, but you never even tried to. This thing was never legitimate. This was always a scam for her.

It was always going to be a scam. So let me give the America's attorney version of what a cryptocurrency is so that we're on the same page, okay? Right. Cryptocurrency is a closed ecosystem that works, if it works, it works because there is a blockchain that anyone can participate in, anyone can see, and no one can change. It is itself a record of everything, and it's not forgeable, it's not changeable, and it tracks everything. And that's why, I mean, that's why it will eventually, digital currency will eventually rule the day. I don't know that it will be unbacked digital currency because of the volatility issues. I mean, no one wants to sell a bail of hay on Wednesday for a certain

amount and then find out on Thursday that the money that they got is worth, you know, one-third of whatever they got for it. But what's fascinating about this is that they never had a blockchain program. They were selling cryptocurrency, but they never had a blockchain. Yeah, I saw it. And that they were able to it's not like they were manipulating the market by buying and selling like like like um jake paul was planning to do yeah right i mean they didn't have i'm sorry i'm sorry logan paul they actually went in and were able to actually go in and do it themselves they were able to just change the numbers themselves to make it look like there was volatility and it was going up and it was like and then did you see the quotes where she says

She was like, make sure we always close on an up as it's going up to build confidence. Yeah. Every day, let's close with it going up so people feel good about it. So I think it's important to have the larger crypto context here. This thing started in 14 and the wheels came off in 16. And she disappeared in 16. And I want to talk about her disappearance with you because I'm like, I'm fascinated by it. New identities, I think, are like a really, an American concept, you know.

It's something that Americans have been doing, heading to the West and restarting. I mean, that's how America started for a lot of people here. It's like this promise of a new life, not always based in crime, but sometimes. But so this company starts in 14. The wheels come off in the summer of 16. She disappears in October of 16. Bitcoin is happening, right? $17.

Bitcoin is happening, but it doesn't blow up until 17. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah, yeah, you're right. She takes, she disappears in 17. Oh, is that right? Yeah, so she's indicted on October 12th, 2017, and on the 25th, she gets on a plane in Bulgaria, in Sofia, Bulgaria, and she flies to Athens, Greece. Yeah.

and she's never seen since. Yes, I was off by one year, but the absolute rush into Bitcoin, where it blew up, happened after this. So her whole rise and fall occurred, although Bitcoin was definitely surging, it was happening. It wasn't how it got to be for the four-year period from 18 to 22. you feel like you feel like maybe people you know took this as a as an example and just to put their money into bitcoin instead of looking for the next best thing is that what or no i don't think so i actually think had she timed her scam 18 months later she she could have made 10 times as much money because what are you going to do a 4 billion yeah because bitcoin bitcoin had

already left the station and people are like well i can't invest in that. It's already gone up so much, but here's one coin. And that name is a baller name. One coin? It is, but are you telling me you're disappointed that she only got $4 billion? No, no, no. You feel like, hey, she could have gotten 10. She's a sucker. Okay, so first of all, you're putting $4 billion. It never happened. The investments by country. They only got 50 million investments from the, invested from the U.S. in the first

in the first half of 2016. This is, it's mostly Chinese money that she got. Oh, well, that's okay. Yeah. So, um, it, you make a joke and I get it, but the reality is like she took in, in, when she was peaking in terms of the amount that she was stealing from the post. public. It was only 50 million from the U.S. That is not a lot of money on relative to the damage she was doing to people out in the world, right? Yes. You're, you're a, you're a math whiz. What

percent of 50, what percent of four billion is 50 million? I am, I don't know. I know. I think it's like maybe 1.2%. You know what? Turns out no one cares. 50 million? I'm good with 50 million. You would be good with 50 million. I mean, that's all Val Kilmer wanted in The Saint, right?

He was stealing money and he said 50 million and I'm out. I hope my error is put that clip in. I love that move. You do? The Saint? The acting is so bad. It's Val Kilmer. okay so like do you like it like i mean the way that i like it is because it's campy um i love the

what what you vel kelp you mean uh the saint yeah i love the the different identities and and you know i like listen like you have any idea oh you don't i'm sure but but like when you walk into passport control and you hand them a fake passport and they call you like like, hi, Mr. Eckert, how are you? I'm fine. And you're in the country for, you know, a business. But you're like, oh, I'm here for, I'm going on vacation. Oh, that's great.

And they give you the thing, they stamp it and you walk on. I mean, like, you feel like buy. Yeah. Yeah. That's a rush. You go stay at the Ritz and everybody's calling you, you know, Mr. Eckert, Mr. Eckert, Mr. Echard, Mr. You know, you're like, this is hilarious. Hey, so that feeling you're describing, that's the same feeling I get every time I tell one of my kids to do

something and they obey me. I'm like, I can't believe that worked. I can't believe I'm in charge. Yeah. I don't even know if this is a good idea, but I do think you should go turn the stove on. No, so what I wanted to say is, had her scam started two years later,

I think it would have been way, way bigger. And, but I mean, I mean, we're all lucky, I guess, that it started earlier. But, like, one of the facts that I came across that I thought was astounding was they posted, they were looking for a programmer. I think it's, I think the article said it was posted on LinkedIn. This is from a BBC article. Looking for a job.

The dude, this guy says, I'm interested. They call him up. He's like, it's a quarter of a million euros a year. and okay, what exactly will I be doing? And they say, well, we're a cryptocurrency company, one coin. We've been in operation for like a year and a half. And we need someone to develop a blockchain for us. And the guy reports that he basically hung up on him.

He's like, how can I pretend that this is a legitimate company if you're telling me that your business is a blockchain and you're 18 months in and you don't have one? Now, as a former scammer, scammer, whatever you are, what do you think their process is 18 months into it and now they're looking for a blockchain developer? I mean, maybe they were thinking we can extend that.

Maybe they were getting complaints and they thought we can extend this if we go ahead and create an actual product or maybe we can just move, you know, this money to another project. Yep. And maybe we can make this legit in some way or extend the scam. Yeah. But.

Yeah. So when I hear that, I don't think, oh, they're trying to make it legitimate. They're trying to stretch it out. They're like, well, we've got to have, we got to paper this so that it looks more like a Bitcoin. I mean, yeah, more like Bitcoin, in that, there has to be a limited number. I mean, it might be a really big number, but there has to be a limited number of idiots and crazy people who will invest in something that's like obviously a scam, right? Yes.

But it's a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they are investing because they think it's a scam or maybe they think it's a pump and dump scheme, but I'm going to come in at the bottom and I'm going to sell just before the top. Problem is, how do you know that? How do you know when that is?

Yeah. So their actual, a lot of their revenue was not from the purchase of coins, but from the purchase of educational materials about crypto. And I don't know if you read this, but they have levels. You can have,

it's basically it's like, you can pay in as a day laborer, and then as a manager, and then as an executive, and then as a tycoon, and you can pay all this money to get educational materials. And then, of course, now that you know their version of the crypto world,

you'll want to spend more money. He built some of the nation's largest banks out of an estimated $55 million because $50 million wasn't enough. And $60 million seemed excessive. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crimes, but when I do, it's bank fraud. stay greedy my friends support the channel join matthew cox's patreon i didn't know that was you know that was the different levels but i did know that you know i knew it was obviously due the multi

marketing i also knew that they were selling courses yeah you know the training courses i didn't realize they were different levels but i think you know the thing i was going to ask you about because when we get to her taking off i saw just i watched a like a five-minute video i was going to mention to you but the other thing i notice is that i keep saying 15 billion dollars 15 billion dollars is that what the entire scheme brought in because she only it looks like she made 4 billion and took off but i've also seen it's a 15 billion dollar um scam yeah i think 15 is the total amount of money they're saying that passed through the organization okay and then Four is what they, I think, believe that she and maybe also the other people at the top were able to get away with.

I mean, they were saying she's like, her, hers is just four. Wow. Four billion. I don't know what they said. Like the other ones, they had this guy. Was it like three? Somebody else was at like one point something. I don't know.

So that's a lot of money, right? It's so much money. You know, in the U.S., she's got these little nothing charges, fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, wire fraud, securities fraud, maybe like four total counts. Like, that's nuts. She's obviously done way more than that. If they can prove four, they can prove 400, 4,000? Well, I thought you were saying that 50 million came from the U.S. That was in the first half of 2016.

Oh, okay. Yeah, it wasn't the total amount. But that's really, so here's a question I have for you. You think there's some strategy involved with the U.S. attorney when they, like, you look at the scam and then you're like, oh, she got undercharged, right? they didn't throw at her well they can only charge her for what the crime

she committed in the United States and let's face it they could charge her with one count of wire fraud get her here and then use all of the what do they call

the other extenuating circumstances and then balloon up her sentence to something astronomical I know a guy that had

had like a $100,000 fraud charge they gave him like 30 years never been in trouble before Wow Well first he got life And then they appealed it

They said you can't give him life on fraud They said you're right We can only give him 30 years 30 years He did the whole 30 Oh man Yeah I guess he defrauded someone

Who had a friend in the government Well what happened was His name was Richard Bailey Okay And he ran like a horse Like a horse scam would he would get rich women he would date rich older women and he was kind of a kind of a gigolo good looking older guy he would get rich older women to buy horses that he had bought the

horse for let's say 10,000 he'd get them to buy it for 200,000 then they'd pay him to take care of it because it was the best this and the best that and of course they'd try and race the horses and they always sucked and he knew it to begin with yeah and then you know he would do this all the time with multiple women he had a ranch and he he made a bunch of money well eventually this woman forget her name but she was the heir to the brocks of candy fortune yes you know yeah i was in prison with him mr bailey and um and so ultimately she ended up disappearing so she was complaining she was saying i'm gonna commit i'm gonna he was dating her and she got but she got upset and she got upset about the money

she said she felt it was a scam she was going to go to the authorities and then one day she went somewhere like she was going on vacation or something and she never made it she just disappeared now later a couple of a couple of laborers that worked for him right like um not deck hands um whatever guys that clean up around the um stable stable hands yeah said he had he approached them to murder her oh wow now one of them ended up saying we murdered her or i murdered her and he he he buried her somewhere then he could never find the body then he said i didn't murder her bailey's always said i didn't murder her i don't know what happened to her she went on vacation she disappeared i don't know and as far he was like as far as fraud's concerned she never complained about fraud i don't know

what any of that is. There's no fraud. You buy a horse. You hope it does well. It doesn't do well. It's not my fault. So, but he went to trial. He lost. They gave him life because of the murder that he was. He knew it was a murder that can prove. But he was never charged. And he was never charged with it. They gave him life. He appealed. It got it knocked down to 30 years. He appealed, appeal, appealed. He did the whole 30. That was it. Very nice old guy. Do I think he murdered her or had her murdered. Of course I do. But he was never charged with murder. So I'm saying maybe they just say, hey, look, you're looking at one count of wire fraud. They get her over here and they say, listen, there's $15 billion missing. We're giving you 20 years, 30 years, whatever they could give

her the max on. Well, they could give her 80 on these four charges. Oh, see? Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, they don't, they don't have to charge a whole bunch to really hook her up. You know, they could charge her with more. I guarantee it. So do you know why she's back in the news right now? I thought it was because they thought they found her. I don't believe so. She has been the subject of a like an eight-part series that aired on BBC basically called

like Searching for the Crypto Queen. They follow all these leads. They never find her. The current theory that people have is that she literally. in Frankfurt, Germany. I don't believe you just said that. I mean, what am I? Maybe I want to watch the series.

You just ruined it. Oh. Maybe you just gave away the ending. I was like, spoiler. Oh, so the ending is that it doesn't have an ending. They have to make more episodes. We're still mid-season. So go knock yourself out.

All right. Go ahead. Sorry. Oh, so her brother pled guilty last fall. Yeah. in the U.S. And he's getting sentenced the first week of April. Yeah.

He's got the tattoos. He didn't look real smart. But he's kind of a muscle head. He started out as a customer and ended up as a... Yeah, he ended up the fall guy. She's like, look, you go ahead and run this. You know, like he's the kind of guy that you say, listen, I'm going to start this business with you.

I'll run everything. But occasionally I'm going to have you sign a document. okay no sure no problem and then you you know you go ahead and you he signed some documents you get some pictures you put of him put it on the website as the president the and two years later when everything falls apart you leave on the jet and he's sitting there going i was just her bodyguard and they're like i don't know says you with the CEO there's a lot of pictures of you shaking hands a lot of stuff came from your email is this your signature yeah they They can't, I mean,

theoretically, yes, but because they succeeded in grabbing both her boyfriend and her brother, they've got the emails from back in 14 that say, I mean, they basically say,

in bold caps, this is a Ponzi scheme. Our exit strategy is, take the money and run. That's what we're going to do. The heat gets up, we're out of here. Listen, the best extra strategy is for her to have put her brother as the CEO, brought them on stage a few times, go to the U.S.

Attorney's office and say, listen, I think my brother's running a Ponzi scheme. Yes. Oh, my word. That's crazy. Yeah. I just believe he did this. Because otherwise, you got to live in the, in the desert in Dubai somewhere. Right.

Yeah. I can't be riding camels the rest of my life. I got $4 billion. I've got to live my life. So another, another wrinkle to this is that she was getting tipped off by people in, allegedly, they don't know this for sure. But allegedly, she had friends in the Bulgarian government who, I think that they were, according to people's research, they were connected through Eastern European mob. and so she's paying for protection. In Bulgaria?

Yeah. No. There's no mob in Bulgaria. Obviously not. These are rumors. I'm not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth, the Bulgaria, as if the mob would be plugged in to the government of Bulgaria. It's insulting.

It's been ever happen. These are unfounded rumors. You'd say allegedly. Yeah, allegedly. It's unfounded now. That's basically news. So there were investigations, they were raids. They were always ready for them.

They, you know, for about a year or so back in 16 and early 17, they were just keeping one step ahead of it. Because it was very early on that some governments were saying, this is a scam. people ought not invest. Yeah, it was the Ralph Nader of Vietnam, the consumer protection guru there. He said, this isn't real, you all stay out of it.

And that came to light. I don't know if you read this. They forged a Vietnamese government document, allegedly, that, like, blessed the operation, said this is a legit company, and the government, like, is somehow sponsoring this in some way. Like, they're, like, okay, like, they're signing off, they're giving it, they're okay. Yeah, well, you know.

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been looking for her, obviously. You know, she's on the FBI's Most Wanted list. But they thought she was, go ahead, make a crack. I saw a crack. Are they? You didn't get crack. I want to talk about the FBI's Most Wanted list. Okay.

It's so sexist. There's been 529 people on the Most Wanted list. How many women? Oh, yeah. It's unfair. 11. It's not right. It really should be, it really should be more, more, more,

evenly spread out. Like, I think it should be at least 50%. You should have at least three Asians in there. You should, it should be 13% black and, you know, 10% Hispanic. And they really, really, it's not right. She, she's the 11th woman to get on the list out of 529. And I don't overachiever. What do you say? Overachiever. Yeah. I don't think that she deserves to be the list? No? What's the criteria? They're looking for you. They don't. Listen, I was on this, I was number one on the Secret Service's Most Wanted list. Come on, who am I? Yeah. There's other people. Is the Secret Service list even on the Internet? That thing's probably on the dark web. No one even knows about it. I didn't even know they had one until I was reading an article on me and I was like,

what? That's crazy. Yeah. I like getting on the Secret Service most wanted list is like, Getting, getting drafted into the minor leagues or whatever. You're not, until you're making it on the FBI's list, I'm like, yeah, you're not that case. Let's see. The, okay. I interrupt. So they're looking for it, right? Yeah.

I saw a video where her, and they were thinking, like, they didn't know where she was, right? They're saying, maybe Dubai, maybe Greece, maybe she. maybe she's in Bulgaria. So her brother took a photograph of himself six months after she was missing. He took a selfie of himself in a downtown area. Well, with kind of a little bit of a downtown area behind him, some computer geek went on Google. tracked down like how much time do you have to have to do this track down all the different

areas and determine can't be Bulgaria can't be here can't be there finally said here it is in Dubai these are the buildings went down then he then he went around until he could station it to the camera and angle it in such a way that he was like these are the built same buildings matched up stains on walls cracks everything and determine the exact location that got he had to be standing in the backyard of this house when he took the picture and has the actual address of the house where he believes it is a civilian did this or a government investigator no this is a civilian mean they're saying this is where her house is the brother was standing in Dubai and the reason they they think it's he was at her house

house is because they're saying he said he was in like Greece or or Bulgaria. He wasn't. They're like, okay, you're not there. So you post it six months after she goes on the run. You were posting this and saying, hey, I'm in Bulgaria. Why would you lie and say you were in Bulgaria? You were probably visiting your sister because it turns out you were in Dubai. So you just lied.

You're lying to cover something. Most likely because you were somewhere you didn't want anybody to know where you were. so it's very interesting I'm ready to get on a plane and go go you know I got to get permission from the judge to travel you know and I've got some barriers but you know I'm ready to go let's go

okay so let me ask you this you're in her situation you're loaded with cash presumably are you are your odds better getting in a spot and staying there or moving around

you know my problem is that every time you hit the news I feel like you have to move around or unless you're going to say hey I'm going to build a little I'm going to build my little paradise and I'm just going to hunker down like if you could build it remotely

and then you could go there and stay there and have almost no contact with the outside world like look in Dubai like I'm not sure how much interaction you have to have. If you have a staff of people, you don't think you have that much of an interaction.

I think, you know, the problem is, is how is that really, you're almost in prison? Yeah, I was about to ask you, how is that, how much better is that than prison? It seems really uninteresting. And at least in prison, you can have contact

in some ways with your old life. Right. Yeah. And if you have, look, for you to pull off this scam, she has to be sociopathic, right? So, yeah. So, you know, in some way, she's extremely anti-social.

She invited her own family into a scam that she knew was going to collapse. She didn't give anybody a warning that she was leaving. She hasn't reached out really necessarily to her brother or her family. I think, I think if she got multiple plastic surgeries, lost weight, like did some body change, changing, and then, you know, made some real physical changes, and then up and moved somewhere else, she could probably disappear. Yeah. Women are great because women can wear makeup and do their hair.

Hair styles, yep. And body, you know, an extra 30 pounds, like she was pretty heavy. I mean, not super heavy, but she was probably, she could lose 40 pounds, you know, get a boob job, work out, get some multiple plastic surgeries, change her hair. She'd look like a completely different person. Yeah. And move and she'd be a completely, she'd be, she would be unrecognizable. And she's got the money to get.

get multiple passports. I think she could stay gone. Okay, so I want to give you, so she's been on the run now since 17, so five and a half, almost five and a half years. Let's put that aside. And I want you to tell me how long she can stay gone from now. like today is day one how long how long can she stay gone i mean i was like i'm saying it's it's if she's smart probably indefinitely oh no indefinitely you don't think what whitey bulger

was gone for what 16 17 years i knew a guy that was on the run for 25 years the problem is i don't think it's that they track you down as much as you just make a mistake Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what happens. You get so, you know, so lazy and so overly confident that you end up going, you know what? I can reach out to Jimmy. I haven't talked to my old buddy Jimmy. It's been a decade. I can reach out to Jimmy and thinking they've forgotten about me. I haven't been in the news. I have this. I'd like to know what's going on. He can catch me up. And you reach out to him. And Jimmy, guess what? Jimmy's son. got arrested. He's in federal prison right now. And the FBI said, listen, if your old buddy, you know, so-and-so ever reaches out to you, we can get your son out of prison if you'll help set him up. And sure enough, that's it. Like, that's. So I have, um, my assumption is that the degree to which she can be, uh, associated with her, her brother is very, very, very, very.

very, very slight, right, in his pre-apprehension state. So like the first two years, she was on the run. I guarantee you they've had no contact since then, right? No. Not unless it was through a family member and it was in the confidence of visitation. How much leverage does he have in his sentencing if he can produce information that brings her in? So, you know how I've mentioned, I think I mentioned this to you, in all my time of seeing people's plea agreements, you know, and you know what a Rule 35 is, a 5K1.

So typically in federal, in the federal system, unlike the state, in most states, they'll say, look, if you're getting 10 years, if you do this, we'll give you four years. And they'll put it in writing. Yeah. And the judge can be bound by that. So in some states, in the federal system, they will not promise you anything. It's like you do this and we'll consider it. And they go, oh, how much will you give me off?

No, we'll think about what to give you off after you deliver. I've only seen, in 13 years of federal prison, I've seen one document. where the government actually agreed that they would reduce the guy's sentence if he cooperated. They wouldn't tell him how much. Yeah. They wouldn't tell him how much. Do you know who signed that document? Robert Mueller.

Ah, okay. I heard of him. Yeah, when he was U.S. attorney for the, in California, in San Francisco, he signed a document with a buddy of mine who said, he said, look, if. you will cooperate and answer these questions and there's indictments. We'll reduce your sentence. No ifs and they're buts. And he signed it and they reduced my buddy's sentence. The government, by the way, Mueller then went on to be FBI director and the new U.S.

attorney said, we don't even know what you're talking about. We've never, there's no. And he didn't realize that this guy that my buddy had the document. So he sends him the document and they go, he got resentenced. And they were like, oh, well, we didn't realize. anyway so this guy's in that kind of position he could get that he could get them to guarantee a reduction yeah but not not a specific amount maybe even a specific amount because think about it they don't have a prayer yeah so her her trail is so here here are the elements see her trail is really cold

i mean at least to us right because she's been out so long maybe they have leads we don't know about But her trail is really cold. She is basically a celebrity in terms of the scope of her scam. And she's the top of the pyramid in that scam. Right. And she's made them look very foolish by avoiding capture for five years. They don't like to look bad.

The U.S. government has a real issue looking foolish. He doesn't know where she is, but he knows the names of people who would know either where she is or the names of people who know where she is, right? He might know her address. Yeah. I mean, he took a picture in her backyard, according to these guys. My guess is that he knows.

knows the names of the people who helped her disappear because those people also helped him disappear. Right? I'm not sure. Did he disappear? I thought he was, was he arrested and as himself? I mean, yeah, he was hiding for a while before he got brought in. Do we know if he had a fake passport or if he was just kind of hide now? I do not know. You know what's funny is like people think it's so, oh, I'll just take off on the run. It's like, really? Like, that's not so easy to to avoid law enforcement forever. You're never going to have, you're never going to have interaction with law enforcement where they say, hey, let me see your ID. Let me see your passport. Like, that's, that's, that's difficult to do. You have to, you have to start a new identity. Anyone who operates a motor vehicle can have an involuntary interaction with law enforcement any time. And actually, I did a video on my channel a couple months ago of a guy who's just walking down the sidewalk and he got pulled over. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. And you've seen those videos with the on TikTok with the guys that, what do they call them, the First Amendment auditors or? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Amendment, Second Amendment auditors or whatever, where they're like, well, I'm not going to give you my idea. What am I? Like, you can try that. But if I was already wanted, like, that's not the approach I want to take.

I want to go, yeah. I want to be like, yeah, I got my ID right now. Sure, what's going on? Why, what happened? Who are you looking for? Like, that's what I want to do. Yeah. Well, but you were also good at it for a while.

So. Oh, yeah. Yeah. hanging out with them i'll hang out with you let's go to dinner yeah so i he can't he his his her brother can't hand law enforcement her on a silver platter not even close but he can give helpful information right right presumably in some way even if it's just layers that they have to dig through um well he's not let's face it he's not the what do you what do you think he's facing anyway i mean how much time do you think he'll get

he's certainly not the top bog he's not the brightest bulb in the house yeah i would need to look at his uh charges i guess he's like if she's the crypto queen he's like the crypto jack or the i was gonna say i was thinking more like the gesture you saw yeah the crypto jester I mean, probably like seven or eight years, right? I don't know. So you give him 10 years. He gets a drug program, some halfway house. He'll be a good time.

This guy's going to be out in seven years, six years. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. Yeah, let's say, yeah, you're right, eight, ten years, something like that. Yeah. Okay, how about this? We're going to give you two years. when you get out

you need to lead us to her within two years or else you're coming back in for another five years I know that's not how they do that would be a great story you know that you're getting creative way more creative than they would get

like they don't have that type of creativity in them right he needs to do a legitimate stint in prison and then he needs to get out and he just they just need to use him to get to her but they'll never do that for a number of reasons one of them is like their attitude is they don't need this guy we'll go find her on our own we're the best yeah well let's face it they don't well in the fed end state like they they don't they don't convict anybody without people cooperating it's especially even with

documents like it's hard to stand up in front of a jury and just read off the documents without somebody sitting on the stand saying these are the documents this is what it means yeah you can't expect a bunch of people that couldn't get themselves out of jury duty to figure out what the bank statements mean yes just um um it you know hold on one second uh sidebar uh you should never try to get out of jury duty matt is talking crazy and your your opportunity to be on the jury is not a duty it's one of the greatest opportunities that we have in a democratic republic Okay, I'm back. Sorry. So, like, this is the tape they're going to play when you, you know, at the, at the, at the bar when they're reprimanding you.

They'll be like, what about this? What's, who's this guy? He said $4 billion wasn't that big of a scheme. What's he running? Exactly. So I was thinking, you know what's funny is I was incarcerated with a guy who'd been locked up for, and I know we're, you know, count. down. So, but he was locked up. He had gotten arrested on a drug charge. He'd gotten like 15 years. He was a member of an organization, like a gang kind of thing in California. Well, there had been like

six people that he knew that were members of this gang that had been murdered and robbed. And people in the organization wouldn't talk to the FBI who was investigating the whole thing. So they came to this guy and said, listen, you've done like five years, you know, five or 10 years, whatever he had done. He done five, six years. They said, we'll let you out, put you in a house. We'll let it be known, you know, we'll allow you to start buying drugs so you can get back in the organization. We'll act like you're selling drugs to people so that you can kind of infiltrate to figure out who's committing these murders. And he's like, you're setting me up because you think I might be able to figure out.

He goes, well, what if this same guy, a person that's out there that's murdering these people comes to murder me? They said, no, we'll be watching you. And he goes, will I have a weapon? They said, no, no, well, we'll give you like a bulletproof vest. The house will be monitored. They're like, he's like, that's not going to do what he goes. What are you doing? And so he literally said, he had argued with him and said, look, you have to give me a weapon.

and finally that was the sticking point was they were like you're a convicted felon we will not give you a weapon but the deal they were giving him was really amazing so he came back out and he had talked to a friend of mine in there that did legal work and that friend of mine ended up telling me about this and he ended up not taking the deal I heard about the whole thing whatever a year or so later and I was like why wouldn't he do that and he was like because He's got like five, six years ago left to go, and they're talking about putting him in a position where he can be in the same position as these other people were that got murdered and robbed. And he was just, he's like, look, I'm sorry. I've been, I don't trust the government to protect me.

But it was the same kind of situation you're talking about. Like they, I could see him pulling him out, but not giving them two years and then saying, hey, if you don't get her within a certain period of time, we're going to give you more time. No, they'd have to give him like 10 years, have him do some time, then go to him and say, we'll file documents that make it look like you won your case. And you got let out. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, but they're never going to turn, they're never going to turn somebody into a bounty hunter. You know, if you help us find this person and you can get rid of the rest of your time. He'd have to be bait. Yeah. I like the mindset. of the guy who's been in for five years because to me it's not credible that he's going to be out buying drugs, doing the criminal life, and not carrying a gun. Right.

Like, wouldn't he have a gun? I mean, I don't know, but wouldn't he have a gun on him? Don't they all have guns on them? I mean, I think at the level he was at. It's funny because I've met, you know, higher, really higher leveled guys. I met guys in the cartel that are, you know, not at the top tier, but maybe a tier or two down. And I've met guys who have been in really high drug transactions and making massive amounts of methamphetamine. And it's funny, at the upper echelon, like, they don't carry guns a lot.

Okay. You see it in the, but at his level, on the street level, where you're in a house where people know they come, they get drugs, they leave, they come. You meet them in parking, like, those guys have guns. Those guys have guns. That's dangerous. Yeah. You're showing up with, if you're showing up with 10 or 100 pounds of methamphetamine, like, they don't usually bring guns. Because if you bring guns, it suddenly things get extremely volatile.

And you don't deal with people that you trust. And a lot of times you're not exchanging cash. You're giving people stuff on consignment. Like there's no reason to rob anybody. I'm not showing up with half a million dollars. Yeah. I'm just dropping off the drugs. You're going to sell them on consignment.

Give me the money back. Yeah. Or else the next time I see you, I will have a gun. Right, right. You don't see me at all of this guy. You'll never see me coming. So, yeah. You hadn't already hit record.

My God. Oh, my word. When people come to my house, the best discussions take place 20 minutes before we ever sit down. Yeah. A lot of times I'll be talking to that person. And I'll say, you know, like I said earlier, like I'm trying to reboot the conversation. and then it gets to the point where it's like, all right,

just tell your story. Good stuff's over. So what I was saying is, my call to action typically is to subscribe because I'm trying to build a community, right? I think that there are people who understand that if they know more about how the game is actually played, like the rules that governs society,

they'll get better outcomes. They'll get better outcomes in their family, at work, with their friends, in business transactions, in any area of the law and by the time you hire a lawyer most of the time you've already got yourself in a jam and the lawyer can just kind of barely help you right and so like my whole thing is I just want a community of people who's learning a little bit more about how the game is played yeah it's so funny I'll I know what you're saying because I'm you know because just because

being through the system people will tell me yeah you know this guy did this this guy did that I'm like, was that in text? Well, no, this part was, but then he told me to call him. I'm like, right, that's when he threatened you, right? Right. That's why he said, call me. Yes. You know, or my girlfriend, I'm like, oh, he did?

Okay, well, you need to tell them your boss this. And she's like, oh, I did. I'm like, did you text it or did you just call him? You see what I'm saying? Or, you know, like, you have a great system of documenting that, hey, I was trying to do the, I'm doing the right thing. or and this is often a really big important element

is putting other people on notice like being able to prove that you told someone something right because people are always like no I didn't know I remember I never heard that yeah I mean whenever you look at any kind of scandal it's uh and for someone in government it's a what did she know and when did she know it right

that's that's all they ever ask because everything after that's a cover up typically and um and there's some of those elements that are kind of coming out in the crypto queen story because she's got apparently friends inside of the bulgarian government who are helping her evade a lewd capture really yeah um well here you want you want to start because i'll it's funny because like there's so many videos on this. I'm already started, man. Okay. I mean, she, um, so I was going to say, you know what? I actually took notes just because, like, so she, what I was going to mention was that she ran this. It's funny. So this is my fourth cup of coffee, by the way. Wait,

before you go on, I want you to tell me how to pronounce her first name. Last name, Ignatova. First name. Is it Ruzha, Ruzha? I was going to say, Ruzha. Roussha, with a J, Rousja. Okay. But kind of a Z-ish J, Ruzha. Ruzha. I like that. According to Wiki, that could be right.

You know, you go to YouTube and ask them to pronounce names. Yeah. Okay. You can say pronounce and then give them the name and then they'll, they'll all words of all kinds of stuff because trust me, I can't. I was raised in the South. I was educated here. I don't, listen, I don't, I can't pronounce anything.

Ruzha Ignatova Crypto Queen I keep saying there's a guy I'm doing a story on and there's one of the characters is named Jesus.

Yeah, Jesus, maybe. And my girlfriend keeps saying, Jesus, Jesus, I'm like, it says Jesus. She's like, it's Jesus. And I'm like,

okay, I get it, but I mean, it's easier to just say Jesus. She's like, yeah, but that's not how you say it. I'm like, well, all right, she's very Christian.

So, yeah anyway so if you like the video do me a favor and hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this one leave me a comment in the comment section and if you be so kind i'd love it if you guys would subscribe to my patreon it's in the description also all of my books are available in the description and i really appreciate it if you want to contact me my e