Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Former Epstein Inmate Explains What Happened Behind Closed Doors

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Starting point is 00:00:22 free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Epstein, was he in the same prison that you were in? Yes. It's the government that gangsters. If you go too far, you will magically die. I call the Clintons, a sixth family. They should have been part of the mafia.

Starting point is 00:00:38 Did you see Elon Musk on Joe Rogan? Doja's going in. When Rogan asked him about it, well, do you know where that money's going? And then he went, yes. And he's like, well, can you tell us? He's like, the fact that he was doing the whole, I can't tell you. Like, I can't say it. No, he's scared.

Starting point is 00:00:55 But think about it, you're probably because you're really. too far. You're filthy rich. You're filthy rich. And being wealthy in the United States makes you powerful. But obviously he feels he's not safe. Like he knows something that so makes him unsafe. I'll give you something real fast. And we'll give an example. There's a guy, if you look him up, he created cars that run on water. Oh, yeah, I've heard this. He created cars that ran on water. Right. And they offered him the oil tycoons. Millions stop. He refused. He went to a meeting, he drank water, he goes, they poison me, he dropped dead right there. If you go too far and you really go against their money, like Elon Musk is saying, the money, you will magically

Starting point is 00:01:37 die. If you believe, if you believe in your heart that Jeffrey Epstein, in that cell, you're crazy. You know in those cells it's impossible. I mean, look, yeah, I've been in those cells. I think guards do, look, I admit it's extremely suspicious, but the cameras, cameras, I hear you, but cameras do often, not. I hear you, but cameras do often, work. I can't imagine. Here's my biggest problem. My biggest problem is not the camera's not working. It's not the guy's falling asleep. Here's my biggest problem with the whole situation is that how do you get someone, like it depends on how you think he died. How do you get somebody else into the entire prison into that wing, into that cell to kill him with other inmates? You think they can do it?

Starting point is 00:02:18 I don't. I don't. There's not other inmates. Well, that's what I'm saying. You're in a private area. But he had another guy had another cellie in there. I think also would you what let me ask you question. More reasonable. What do you think about him maybe saying, telling the CEO, I thought this scenario, hey, I'll give you a couple million dollars, give me something to kill him. Or what I thought it was all, so what about the end, the other, there was another inmate in there, like telling the box. Telling that inmate to kill him. And that guy died of a heart attack in a cab that was going to go on a show. Hey, want to hear how sick that is? That's, that's odd. Oh, he died of a heart attack in the back of a cab. Three days before he wants to go get interview

Starting point is 00:02:52 and tell everything that Epstein told him. He magically dies in a fucking cab. Wow, what a coincidence. They have a thing called a heart attack gun. You know that? No. Oh, yeah. It's real. Makes you have a heart attack.

Starting point is 00:03:04 I think the problem with all... You cannot fuck with them to a certain extent. They will make you vanish, bro. It's just the way it goes. I think the problem is that most conspiracies nowadays are real. Are seem insane until they're proven real. Like, what is it the difference between a conspiracy? What's the chances of his bunky dying three days before he's giving interviews about Epstein telling him,

Starting point is 00:03:27 things. There's no, it's too much. Listen, it's too much of a coincidence. I'm sorry. Okay, and that I'll give you. It's too much of a coincidence. Come on. What I am saying is cameras don't work, guards fall asleep. Right. So, but, but, but, and I, my problem is, I would have to be like, how do you, how would you get some, it had to be somebody in the prison with him there to do, to pull that off. It has to be a guard. It has to be another inmate. No, I can see those scenarios. All the way into the prison. I believe someone had him killed or, or, you know, I believe he asked the guy to give him, like, I'll pay you to, because he'll take money all the time for bribes in there, especially in there.

Starting point is 00:04:03 Yo, he's a billion. There's no way he actually did it himself, though. Someone helped him. Someone helped him. That's just what it is. I think the other problem is he's a narcissist. A narcissist just don't kill themselves. They just never kill themselves.

Starting point is 00:04:17 What was the other guy, the guy who did the anti-virus? He did a fucking program with his. What about, wait, what about the plane that crashed with all the can, well, this is a great one, too. In Brazil. Oh, and this is great. They're all cancer research doctors, ready for this, that have cures for cancer.

Starting point is 00:04:34 What do you think happened to the plane, guys? Oh, imagine you went down. Wow, they're all dead. Oh, really? Wow, what a coincidence. And the eight doctors didn't make it on the plane. They would have been dead, too. These are all master...

Starting point is 00:04:45 Well, Epstein, was he in the same prison that you were in? Yes. If you think about a lot of things when it comes to, like, when it comes to money with the government, you're going to die. They don't give a fuck what you release. As long as they're anything about their money and messing up their money, you're going to die. There's so many crazy scenarios where, like, Hillary Clinton, I remember the lady was coming out.

Starting point is 00:05:07 She was writing a book on Hillary and Bill, and then all of a sudden she magically gets shot and throwing the water. I mean, it's just like, why would somebody shoot this lady that worked for the White House? Shoot her and throw in the water. It's just like, so many scenarios just sound just so insane that you're just like, and it's never talked about. Yeah, I was just thinking about John McAfee. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's another, that's a weird one. They're all weird.

Starting point is 00:05:30 John McAfee, he was, and he came out saying, look, if I could, if I end up unaliving myself, he's like, it's like, it's like, because they was about to be, you remember that? He was about to be indicted. No, he's indicted. He was about to be, um,

Starting point is 00:05:42 he was about to be brought back to the United States. And he was saying, they know if I get brought back there, what I'm going to say and I'm going to expose all this, all of that. And then within like the next day, he was dead. The water guy does it for me. The guy to create the car on water, shows you everything. You don't do what they want. They fucking poison them at a meeting in broad day life.

Starting point is 00:05:58 with the people sitting at the table, killed him right at the table. You could look it up. It's a real story. He literally wouldn't take the money from the billionaire tycoons and they fucking killed him, bro. It's that simple.

Starting point is 00:06:07 You mess with money. That's it. You're gone. That's it. It's just what it is. You know? Think about CIA agents sign their life over to them

Starting point is 00:06:14 because they don't exist. When you go over to countries and you get captured, they don't claim you. Right. Yeah. You know, it's all fucked up. They don't care.

Starting point is 00:06:21 What do they call it? They don't care about you. It's crazy. Those world we live in is really nuts. And they talk about, Oh, inhumane, they're inhumane. That's the fucked up part. A human life to them is a cockroach.

Starting point is 00:06:32 You know what I mean? So it's really, the world is really fucking weird, man, to me. I believe a lot of conspiracy theories are real. Aliens are real. This is all real. I think that the more time goes on, the more of being exposed for sure. Not all of them are real. But I mean, I do believe a lot of them.

Starting point is 00:06:47 JFK, where did he get shot from? Did he shoot him? I would love. It shows the guy shot him in the front seat. I would, well, I don't know. I haven't seen that one. But I'm dying to see what. with the file show.

Starting point is 00:06:58 I don't think it was one shooter. I think it was multiple. What about the 9-11 files? They're talking about that's worse than anything. They're saying the 9-11 files is actually worse than... They're saying the 9-11 files is going to have America Furious.

Starting point is 00:07:09 How about that? Are they saying they're going to release this? Are they going to release them? I don't even know if they can. It'll probably cause a fucking riot because they're saying that the 9-11 files is worse than everything they have.

Starting point is 00:07:18 There was a clip on the inauguration day where they're saying, we're going to release these Epstein files, JFK files, and they never said, 9-11 files and there's like a video of the bush just raising his eyebrows. I guess it's going to cause like an uproar.

Starting point is 00:07:31 They're saying that the FBI director said that the 9-11 files is the worst thing ever more. That the JFK thing is not what you think. He was saying that. Right. But the 9-11 is bad. Do you think anything significant is going to come of? I don't think they can release the 9-11 files.

Starting point is 00:07:48 Or the Epstein or JFK because the Epstein supposedly was just supposed to be released Friday. And they leave bullshit. It's like bullshit. I don't think they can. I think the names on it are so bad. I don't know. It goes, I mean, when you start talking about the names that might be on it, you're going to bring down the system. I don't know if they could do it.

Starting point is 00:08:04 I don't know how ruthless Donald Trump could get. I mean, to a point where, you know, they might have to take some people out. This is getting like, you know, they're exposing too many secrets. I don't know. I don't know how this goes. You know, I'm not one of them, but I could tell you what our life, you're going. I wonder how I was thinking about, actually my wife and I were talking about this the other And I was thinking, I wonder like at what point does this, what do they call it, the dark state or the deep state, that at what point, assuming there is a deep state. And I don't know that there's an actual organization that is, it's not like they all get together. But I do believe in the idea that not all participants of a conspiracy have to know one another in order as long as all of their interests align. So I think that if there's a deep state, at what point do they say Trump is.

Starting point is 00:08:55 is such an issue for us, he has to go. And if you do that- They tried that already. Yeah, but if you, no, no, if you do, I'm saying if they, you really get together and you do that, you can't just get rid of Trump. You have to get rid of Vance. You have to get rid of, you have to get rid of a whole bunch of people that Trump went

Starting point is 00:09:12 through. And instead of putting normal people in the government, he pulled, he pulled those people out and he put people that were only loyal to him. So that means you basically have to go with Trump, with the president, the vice president, FBI director. You have to go through and there's got to be 30 people that you have to take out at the same time. How is that possible? You can't.

Starting point is 00:09:30 And I think they might know their limits at some point, maybe. Where they just had, we just have to grin and bear it. I think so. I'm not saying I know everything and I don't. I'm just saying I just think there's limits where like Elon Musk said, I don't want to get killed. Yeah. And he's talking real talk. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:09:47 Yeah. But think about it, how powerful he is for him to say, I think that I could be in danger if I really told what we've uncovered. And let's face it, he's basically saying, like, look, my job is to try. You know, these guys have hit teams that work for them. Like, I'm not trying to sound like a movie thing. You know that Hillary Clinton and have like, like, not mercenaries, but like Navy SEALs, people like that that work for them, trained killers, not saying that they do hits for them, but that's what they do. They've done it in the military, like they're killers. That's what they do. So if something needs to happen, you have trained mercenary killers coming for you. You're

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Starting point is 00:11:34 as the people that work for them. So if they want you gone, you're gone. They'll shoot you from 800 miles away on a fucking direct hit in your head if they really want you gone. You know that, right? From a thousand miles away, sorry. I don't know about 1,000 miles. Yes, it is. I hear you. It's on record. It's 1,000. They'll shoot you from a fucking, they'll shoot you from 10 football fields away right in your face. And that's if they want you gone. Think about it. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:11:56 So I believe if you do too much, something happens. Something happens. Hillary Clinton had 45. Do you know that? Look into it. Seems a little coincidental. But not going to get into that. It's crazy.

Starting point is 00:12:08 I understand there's a lot of very suspicious deaths around her and her husband. I looked into it. 45. Okay. 45 people committed to the next up. If it was 10, it's probably still pretty odd. It's just insane. I mean, you know, to me, those are my, I hate them the most, that family.

Starting point is 00:12:22 I hate them, despise them, everything about them. But they're gangsters. That's what they are. They're the sixth family. I call the Clintons, the sixth family. They should have been part of the mafia. And, you know, seriously. And I always said this.

Starting point is 00:12:35 I always wanted to know one brain. I wish I could have for a day is George Bush Sr. He knows every secret ever in America. Do you know he knows every secret? He used the head of CIA for 30 years. He had the highest clearance in the world, I mean, for the country. Right. He knows he probably hung out with a fucking.

Starting point is 00:12:52 fucking alien. How about that? All right? In the ship. Okay. I would love to know what he knows. So I, so there used to be like a thing where people would go around and they say if you could spend a day talking to one one person, who would it be him? I used to say, George Bush. Well, I mean, if I could, because of the CIA. I would say if he tells me everything. No, no. And you have a complete candy conversation. If he was able to sit like this and me privately and tell me all the secrets, you would just be mortified because the things that he knows is probably like, I remember they were saying he was bringing drugs. They were catching Papal Escobos guys and some Marines bringing drugs over there.

Starting point is 00:13:25 The CIA was blatantly killing the cartel guys and taking the drugs. Right. They don't know that. Like, robbing the drug dealers. Like, you know, like, their shit is so crazy. You know what I mean? So, like, they're gangses to me. That's what they are.

Starting point is 00:13:37 In suits. They are. They're just the government. They're gangsters. It's what they are gangsters. You got, that's what you need to do is have a studio where you go in and just talk about, if you just talked about, you talked about current topics, current things that are happening, just like you were like, no, no, that happened

Starting point is 00:13:51 a long time. We already know that guy got indicted. You already know all about it. Yeah. That's my old boss. Right. So I'm saying, bring it up. You can bring it.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Listen, bring up anything you think is good. No, I'm not saying bring it up. Yeah. I'm saying you set something up, just like this in a spare room. Yeah. And you set it up. And as topics come up, you're like, I know so and so. Here's the thing, Matt, though.

Starting point is 00:14:11 I'm not burnt out because I don't have a show. If you see a lot of these guys, they're getting burnt to fuck out. And the mob genre, I'm keeping it alive with beefing with people and doing the things I do. But other than that, that shit is dead. Gene, it's not dead. It's only me, Mike, and Sammy keeping up numbers right now. If you look at everyone's numbers, they're horrible. I understand that, okay.

Starting point is 00:14:31 Dominic Sicali's numbers are horrible. Jimmy Kalanjia's left. He's horrible. John Panisi's like Mr. Rogers. Horrible, boring. No one listens to these guys. They're all horrible. The only ones you got is Sammy Mike and me.

Starting point is 00:14:43 That's it. So I'm trying not to get burnt out. You know what I mean? Okay. The difference is that Michael Franzis and Sammy the Bulls, the Bull are probably making 40 or 50,000 or $50,000 a month. Just. Sammy's doing more.

Starting point is 00:14:56 Every time I talk about anything, I'm conservative. Yeah. Let's say it's 50. Yeah. 50,000 a month. Yeah. Doing what? They sit down and fucking run their fucking mouth three times a week.

Starting point is 00:15:06 How about this? Somebody else does all the work. We talked about it last time. I was making triple they were making a month just a couple of months ago. What happened? Blue it all. Okay. So you're saying it's so it's a lost cause to, I mean, I don't care.

Starting point is 00:15:19 No, I'm saying. I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it, but I don't know. I have my TV show going on. That's what I really care. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you.

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Starting point is 00:15:58 You will have it. But right now you have the time to do this. So how about this? I'll be right with you. NBC offered me $1.6 million a little day. I told him no. That's where I'm at. NBC offered me $1.6 million. Right.

Starting point is 00:16:12 And I told him no. You want to know why? You wanted to make a character gay. They wanted to take the sex and the violence out of it. I'm not taking that. Who cares? Okay? And they offer,

Starting point is 00:16:22 hold on, they offered me one, I turned down, I turned down, that's how dedicated to my shit and I know what I got. On my grandpa's grave,

Starting point is 00:16:30 my partner, $1.6 million to give to me. Anybody would have took that. They want to make my character like Fat Vito from Sopranos that I had a gay interest and they want to take out all my violence and sex.

Starting point is 00:16:42 Yeah, well, and I understand, I get that. What would you do? No, I agree. No,

Starting point is 00:16:46 I'm not going to, I'm not going down it because the problem is your, wait Matt, That's not that. The problem is you're going down in history as that. So no, that's a no-go. But my point is, is that your interaction or the effort that you would have to put it into an actual show,

Starting point is 00:17:02 which let's say they green lit it right now, wouldn't get off the ground for six months to a year if you're lucky. If all the planets align, it wouldn't be a year before you'd be on set going, yeah, that's right. Well, here's the thing. What I want you to do is bring this up and I'm going to bomb them anyway right now, NBC, because I don't like what they did. and fuck them because I told them, you ruined my show. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:23 You're ready? All right, perfect. Everything he said is okay. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. So I turned down a lot of money. Yeah. Because I felt like they're trying to,

Starting point is 00:17:33 they're taking it and turn it into some highly weird shit. Right. You know what I mean? So my goal is to go to where it has to go. HBO stars, Hulu, Netflix, which my lawyer, Douglas Anton, is one of the biggest federal attorneys

Starting point is 00:17:43 in the country. He's George Clooney's lawyer. That's my friend, and he wants me to succeed. He said, I'm going to get you in front of all these big people with your partner. And somebody's going to take it. You're just like, just, NBC wanted it.

Starting point is 00:17:55 They wanted the show, except they were going to turn it into a fucking fudge packer show. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I wasn't allowing it. Right, right. Yeah. And I understand that. I understand that because, you know, most people, oh, give me, take the money.

Starting point is 00:18:08 But the truth is, is that, look, you've had money before, whether you're going to be able to do something with or not, who knows. Right. But the bottom line is this. The money's one thing, but me having to be 60 years old. or my kids eventually having to look back and seeing this and they're saying, well, they're portraying your dad as a gay guy. They're portraying this. They've twisted a bunch of weird shit into it. And then your kids for the rest of their lives are going, no, no, but that's not what happened. They did that up. So I get saying, hey, it's in a way, even though it's probably

Starting point is 00:18:36 not a great legacy that you want, you're not a politician or a lawyer, but it's still your legacy. But think about this. My life was based off violent sex money murder. I mean, I hate to say that. That's what most of our lives are based off that work the department that I worked in. Right. How the fuck are you going to take that out the TV show? Well, what is it going to be stepping up three? We break dance and the motherfucker?

Starting point is 00:18:57 What am I a dancer? I don't understand. What am I in the mob for? Because I could dance good? Like, what was I there for? You're trying to take a show and turn into a soap opera horrible. Yeah, I was going to say, what are they trying? Is it like a 30-minute?

Starting point is 00:19:10 No, I'm trying to, I don't understand. So I'm going to go, oh, yeah, the mob boss has recruited me because he was a good dancer. He dances is good. Check him out. You know what I'm saying? It was like I was good at what I did. So how are you going to turn my show into that? So I was furious because they had us in the phone for eight fucking hours.

Starting point is 00:19:25 Eight hours. Eight hours. Not eight hours. Talking to the biggest people in that studio. Okay. We want to do it. We want to do it. We have to.

Starting point is 00:19:34 But this is what we want to do. And we're like, no. Right. Why would we do such a thing? There's nothing to do with my show. Oh, well, the Sopranos had a gay character. We don't, what do you mean? That's not what we're doing.

Starting point is 00:19:43 Yeah. Great thing. Make one of my buddies have a gay interest, but not me. I told them, read my book. It's a New York Times best sell. I sold over 20,000 copies. You know how hard it is for a book to sell? Yes, I do.

Starting point is 00:19:53 That's so hard. For me to sell that, for me to sell that many, and then plus thousands of autograph copies I sell for my Instagram. I've sold tons of books. That's very hard, so you're not going to sit here and tell me that the story isn't good. Every single producer that reads his script loves it. We had the big, I could say his name now. It don't matter because we're not dealing with.

Starting point is 00:20:10 I had Edward Bernardo reach out to me. He's a fucking big, one of the biggest producers in the country. He's working on a Marvel. film right now. He reached out to me and read my book and watched my podcast. I love this stuff. He goes, but I'm working on Marvel. Can you wait? I says, no. He's working on a fucking Marvel film right now. All right? That's who wanted my thing. So I'm like, why would I sell out and do this when I have the kind of people that are coming at me? He created criminal minds. So this guy wanted my shit. He loved it, but he says, I'm on Marvel. That's a billion dollar

Starting point is 00:20:40 projects. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, when I'm ready for you, I want your project, though. I want, I want to do it. I'm like, I can't wait. I've been waiting three years. like I've been working on COVID back me up everything now it's time so now we have Douglas getting us in front of all these good people that now my partner could just you know present it and you know get this thing rolling because I don't want to wait no more right that's that's just it um all right I hear you yeah listen I was on I was on a Zoom call so I don't think I've probably gotten as close as you've gotten right because I've gotten to the deal part You know, where it's actually where they're actually offering you money.

Starting point is 00:21:19 How much is the budget? How much is this? You know, you get 3% of this, 2% of that. You know, I've got to that point. What I've gotten to is the point where I've flown out to L.A. I've gone to the production companies, had the meetings. I've only had one, well, I've had two meetings, like, in person where we sat down at the table with them. One, we were sitting down, they were on a Zoom.

Starting point is 00:21:37 And then I've got, I've countless ones where it's basically a remote conversation where they're, everybody's there. Everybody's talking, you're talking. But you're right. And a lot of times, we talked about this a couple years ago when you did the podcast, where, and you were like, you were like, oh, it's a done deal. It's a done deal. And I was sitting there thinking, bro, you know how many times I've heard it? It's a done deal.

Starting point is 00:21:58 Well, we got caught up with the Warner Brothers guy. And he works for Warner Brothers. And that's why we didn't care about nobody else. Because when he reached out to you, like, oh, we're golden. Yes, son. But he's like, I'm working on Marvel. So that's the problem. When we're ready for you, I want you.

Starting point is 00:22:12 You know, he watched all my pot. This guy, you can't get to eat. You can't get him on Zoom. If you try to take six months, he called us. Right. Think about that. He's one of the biggest producers around. He worked with every big celebrity there is.

Starting point is 00:22:23 And he personally told me that I couldn't have Chattainment. I mean, not Chantan Taitman. I mean, he's the worst. He's a headcase. I says, what do you mean? That's why I want to play me. That's what I want. Nobody wants to work with him.

Starting point is 00:22:36 They asked me 10 names to play me. And I picked him 10 times. I put his name down 10 times. They're like, no. I'm like, yes, this is who I want. Shialov, this is who I want. I actually talked to Charlotte Buff's best friend. I spoke to his team and they says, yeah, man, I'm sure he would love this.

Starting point is 00:22:50 He was on a retreat when I contacted him. He goes in like, he's crazy. Yeah. So he disappears for like months. So I'm like, all right, he's like, mom, I'm telling you he would love this because he wanted to play Paulie Guns in the bad dave story. Remember the bad dad boys? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:01 He wanted to play Polly Golino. Yeah, but that's the problem. Nobody wants to work with him because he does disappear for three fucking months at a time. Right. So he wanted to play a character that's just like me. So if you know Jimmy Kalandra's story, his best friend is Pauli Galino. He's a killer, psycho out of Brooklyn.

Starting point is 00:23:14 and he was a very known figure all over the internet. They killed him, obviously. Tommy Reynolds and Joey Calico shot him in the head for the mob bosses. He pushed our boss, just put his hands on him, and they killed him. So, Charlotte Buff reached out to him and says, I want to play Pauli Golino. I'll put my own money into it. I'll put a half a million dollars into this. I'm going to put the script in and $500,000 on and see what happens.

Starting point is 00:23:36 But Jimmy Kalanj is a hard head. He ruined it, and that's why it didn't happen. So I heard that. I'm like, all right, I'm a Pauli Galino. Right. Let's see if he wants to pull him. play me. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I jumped on it, you know? So like I said, I talked to so many big people and things like that. My friend Dominic already agreed that if it

Starting point is 00:23:53 gets casted, he's in Tulsa Kings. He's the main star in Tulsa Kings, besides Spencer Stallone. He said he'll play Ronnie if it gets cast, if he gets the show. The problem with Hollywood is that everybody, and it's the same thing over, every time I've had the conversations, you have the initial conversation, they're super excited. Then they say, then they want to talk to their team. We're going to, well, I'm going to approach the, we have a meeting with the team next week, and they're going to talk to the team. Then they talk to the team and you get to, hey, the team loves it. And then it's, we got to talk to Sally or Jennifer at fucking Netflix. And oh, we talk to her in two weeks from now and then to, and it just goes on and on and on. And then

Starting point is 00:24:35 eventually you have another Zoom meeting. And then that goes on for an hour and a half, where they ask you all these questions. And the first few times I've had the meetings, I felt like, wow, they're really interested. By the, by the 10th meeting, they're asking you the questions. And to me, I'm just staring at. I'm like, mm-hmm, yeah. No, no, that's, because I'm thinking, this is such a waste of fucking time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:54 It's the same thing over and over. You're right. But I, with me, I'm very how I want it. Like, there's no negotiating. Right. Because I told them, this is what I have. This is what I bring to the table. I have what nobody has.

Starting point is 00:25:06 A modern-day mafia story. I'm the only one I could give this to you of all the stuff that I have. I was basically a guy that, like, you don't see guys like me no more for the mob. You won't. They don't exist no more. And I could give you just a whole neighborhood, which is the biggest mafia, soul-popper neighborhood in the country. Howard Beach, Queens is the most organized crime neighborhood there is.

Starting point is 00:25:23 And that's the heart and soul of mafia. And I told him I bring that to the table along with over 100 million views on the internet, a best-selling book. I have a big social media presence. And this is what I want. And this is what I want to do. A lot of them like, oh, my God, we love it. But a lot of them are very skeptical with.

Starting point is 00:25:40 the violence and things like that. So it has to go to certain stations. You can't put it on regular TV. Yeah, yeah. No, it's got to be HBO. I told my partner, it cannot be NBC. Yeah. They want it, but we can't do it with them because look what they just did. They wanted to turn it to a stupidest show ever. So it has to be with like 50 cent or those crew, you know, like those kind of people, because then anything goes. You know what I mean? Then you could do exactly what I want to do with the show. So like I says, every single day, my partner is on it every day, people talking to people every day and the lawyer. So we'll see what happens, you know? Yeah, I, I hear you. HBO, a producer from HBO reached out to us. They want to do a reality show with us with the ex-mob guys,

Starting point is 00:26:21 right? So I was on the phone with me, Johnny, like all of us, and they want to do a reality show with us. Yeah, that might be pretty good, right? Like, that might be interesting. And I said, but it's always the same ones that they come at. They don't want nobody else, but me, Johnny, Mike, Francis, and Sammy. That's the only ones they want. They're like, no one care about. They're like, no one care of those guys. We want you guys. Oh, it's always us. Okay, the problem, here's the problem with what I think with that is that Michael Francis has too much money. And he's honestly, and as night, I liked him, I met him. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:46 He's nice guy. Yeah. He's old. He's 71 years old. He don't want to fuck with this. I told him that. Right. And Sammy's 80 years old.

Starting point is 00:26:53 I told him, no. I said that. So it would be me and Johnny, and I think, like I said, she loves. They're not going to have the energy you guys are going to have. I do. I do. And they know that. And I'm a ball of energy.

Starting point is 00:27:03 And I told him, you know, it'll be cool. But like I said, I told him, I'm working on so many other things that I want to do with my story. and that would be cool too, but, you know, she said she's going to pitch it to them. She wants to do it, this lady. She's worked for them for 20 years. She sold many shows and things and she wants to do it with me. Well, there aren't any other guys that are getting out of prison or that are currently hitting the... Yeah, but you got to understand like, I'm trying to tell you this.

Starting point is 00:27:24 You've got to really look at the internet lately. There's so many ex-mob guys coming out and they're just not getting views. Right. It's just you got to have the if factor. You got to have it. Like I said, me and Johnny did it the right time, and I just have a huge fan base and it stuck with me and it just keeps growing. I mean, I think it's because. like, you know, how disrespectful I am and the way I act, I think that's more or less my advantage.

Starting point is 00:27:43 You know what I'm saying? I just say anything. Yeah. Well, Johnny Aalight, he brings in views. He's not, he has a vastly different. He's a worldwide. He's really known to the world. I mean, I'm not in bullshit.

Starting point is 00:27:52 And you're like, everywhere you go, this guy gets stopped. It's hysterical. Everywhere you go. He's known. In Europe, forget it. He's like a rock star. But Johnny Aalight, did you know him like prior to going in? How'd you guys get connected?

Starting point is 00:28:04 Of course. Alight reached out to him when he got out. Yeah. He got him on Vlad. Of course. Well, you got to say it. So when I came out, Johnny knew I was going to be big because my case was so big. So you're not from New York.

Starting point is 00:28:14 So if you knew how big my case is, where we're from, I was on the people I worked for, like the biggest guys in my area in the areas. So when my boss beat that La Tonza High's case, which is the biggest trial in the country at the time, it was found not guilty. No charges. I brought him back on charges. He just walked out of prison. I got him back on charges. So, yeah. And this is like the most high-profileged guy around at the time.

Starting point is 00:28:41 So think about Goodfellas, the Latanza Heist. That's his, that's his robbery. So that's what it was on the paper every day. It had more media attention in any mafia case in the history organized crime. Did you ever see Goodfellows? No. Oh my God. But we did break down the scene in a video that we did.

Starting point is 00:28:58 Okay. So it was the biggest airport heist in American history. Yeah. Yeah. $7 million was taken and he did that. And they killed a lot of people and he beat everything. The murders. the heist, everything.

Starting point is 00:29:08 So that was in 2014. He was locked up. And I never forget this. And I never said this, but I'll say you here today. The last time I spoke to Vinny, he was locked up. And I was in the street. And he called me from the feds. And this is on wire to obviously conversation.

Starting point is 00:29:24 And I was talking to him and he goes, Gene, go help my girlfriend move her furniture and everything out the house for me. I said, yeah, no problem. I said, don't worry, Vinny. You're going to come home. He goes, ah, you know, you throw shit against the wall. Some of it's going to stick. Right.

Starting point is 00:29:34 That's the last thing he ever said to me. That's the last time I ever spoke to him and the last thing I ever said to me. He goes, ah, you know, you throw shit against the wall. Some of it's going to stick. Like, in the words, there's no way I'm beating this. And he beat it. He beat all the murders.

Starting point is 00:29:46 He beat the robbery and everything. So think about where that puts me. Then Ronnie G., who's one of the biggest earners in the five boroughs, who's making $400,000 a month. This guy's a multimillionaire, vicious violent guy. I'm his right-hand man. So now I'm cooperator. Now I have this huge case.

Starting point is 00:30:00 I'm all over gangland. I'm all over the news. I come out, and then I'm going for a lot of TV. Right. I'm the only modern day guy ever to come out. Of course it's going to be all over me. Johnny A Light was smart. He knew what he was doing.

Starting point is 00:30:10 And it created a frenzy. You know what I mean? What about, so your boss, your old boss, is he getting, is he out? Yeah. He's dead now. Vinny died. No, I'm talking about this guy. That's him.

Starting point is 00:30:25 That's Vinny. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Okay, he died. He died. Ronnie gets out in 2029. Oh, 2029? Yeah. Oh, that's right.

Starting point is 00:30:31 We talked about it last time. Yeah. I was saying he thought he was getting out. No, no, no. No, that's that true. No, 2029. Okay. He'll be out.

Starting point is 00:30:36 He still has some years left. But, yeah, he was a real tough guy, vicious guy. He's exactly your size. No, but. He's tiny. Yeah, but no, but he packs a fucking deadly punch. I've seen him knock people out with slaps cold. So I'm saying, like, vicious, tough guy and just a multimillionaire, you know?

Starting point is 00:30:53 Seventh grade education can't read a right, but he can make money, you know? He had that, he had that, like, when people can just get lucky and fall ass backwards in the money all the time. Right. He's just one of those guys that just always gets lucky and just makes tough. tons of money. That's kind of makes me think of Michael Franzis. Like everybody's like, you know, Michael Franzis did this and this and this, but really somebody came to him with the scam.

Starting point is 00:31:13 Right. So this is what we're doing. Well, the five families was in on that. Right. It wasn't just, yeah. Right. Do you want in on this? Right.

Starting point is 00:31:18 He said, yes, he just, he just kind of, you know, McDonald's, it turned it into this massive, made it larger. Mike's a very, very, very smart guy. Yeah. You know, it's always Sammy. Sammy was a powerhouse moneymaker as well. Sammy Gavano in the 80s had millions of dollars. Sammy Gavano had $5 million in the 80s.

Starting point is 00:31:32 That's like $50 million now. more why you know what I'm saying so when Sammy and the bull got out right so he gets out yeah they move him witness production moving to Arizona why start up again I don't even know yeah I can't I don't know I mean I wonder if anybody's ever asked I don't know why would you I think I I think he claims that like it really wasn't what they made it it was like they made it big because it was his name but it really wasn't a big ring right you know I mean I think it was more or less the son that it was getting in trouble and he just got caught up in it I don't think he was really like the ringleader like they were saying um you know Sean Atwood is no oh the

Starting point is 00:32:08 boxer no no Sean Atwoods he's a he's in the UK he's in the UK he has a true crime channel I think so maybe bald white guy English did I do a show him I might have you might have I don't know good at him anyway he's you know he's always said that he was a part of that his competition in in Arizona was was Sammy could be and you know initially Sammy came out as Like, I don't know who this guy is. Yeah. Like, I don't know who this guy is. And that's the crazy part.

Starting point is 00:32:36 But now he's saying he does. So I'm saying now, now he's like, oh, okay, I think he was dealing with my son. You know, he's like, I think he might, I don't really know. I initially denied it, but now they're actually doing some kind of a documentary together. Yeah, but you got to be careful with this entertainment right now because it's becoming WWE. And that's what you got to be careful with the podcast. Well, that's why I keep it genuine and real.

Starting point is 00:32:56 You know what I'm saying? Like a lot of people are, I had people contact me to give fake scenarios to put them in it to get them relevant. I'm going to be real with you. And I won't do. it because I'm not lying. Everything I say and that's why everyone loves me is I keep it genuine. Like they want to use me to become famous now of being a criminal. I know the ones that are valid and the ones that ain't. I had guys reach out to me like, oh, you know, I know you from so and so. I don't know you. I don't know you from so. Oh, you don't remember. I've seen you in the park hit.

Starting point is 00:33:20 So I said a lot of people see me in the park hit people with things. You know what's like, I know what's going on in the podcast world right now today. It's like becoming wrestling. It's like clout chasing. It's becoming WWE, like scripted. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not. doing that. So I keep it 100 and genuine. So I don't know who's real and who's not. I mean, I know who is real and who's not, basically. You know. Well, I mean, Sean Atwood, he definitely went to prison. So, I mean, I know. You go to prison. I don't mean you're a gangster. Yeah, yeah. But I don't, but, initially, Sam, he was like, I don't really know who that is. But the truth is, honestly, I know lots of people that if you said, hey, you know, so and so, I'd be like, I don't know who that is.

Starting point is 00:33:57 And if the guy walked in, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I do remember. So I'm bad with names. No, yeah. It could be real. It could be not. But who knows. But Sam, Sam, Sam. he's for the most part tells her how it is you know i if you hang out with him he's still sammy gavano i don't know if you know that like he's like still like vicious right like he's not he didn't lose his viciousness he'll say on the show he looks all nice and pleasant but like don't fuck with him he's old but he's still wild you know i yeah yeah i've had a beverly hills party he went off on somebody yeah you know he's still uh you know he's still uh you know he's still a little nuts you know johnny elai too johnny july johnny he'll knock you out like johnny's tough yeah real tough what is he doing

Starting point is 00:34:32 He travels all over the place Okay He's on a world tour right now For They got him on the cover of magazines I know But for what? What's he doing?

Starting point is 00:34:40 They love this guy I don't know I mean is he doing like You know He goes places And tells his story Yeah Talks to kids

Starting point is 00:34:46 He does a lot of advocating And that stuff You know He lost his daughter To the drugs And stuff like that And Um

Starting point is 00:34:51 The f*** She got her You know It was in a fucking Xanax Bro Yeah She took a pill A Xanax to go to sleep

Starting point is 00:34:58 And never woke up again That's horrible You know And that's what I'm saying Like He's like He's like super close me, you know what I mean? He was very close. So he gets a lot of, a lot of attention out in the

Starting point is 00:35:06 country, in the countries. So I have a question is, and we were talking about this, and I had, I think I had some misinformation or it turned into something that it wasn't, but that there's a bunch of articles that right now, so, so El Mio was grabbed by El Chapo's, one of his sons, and brought flown into, where was he, was he flown into Miami or Texas? Anyway, I forget. But, so he was flown in there like, they kidnapped him, basically. They kidnapped him, put him on a plane and flew him in. He's currently in, is he in New York, where you were? Zimbada Garcia was transferred yesterday to the Eastern District of New York.

Starting point is 00:35:51 Oh, yeah, he's where I am. MDC Brooklyn. Yeah, and that's what I thought Pete is. This was in July. I don't know if he said he's in the shoe. Pete said he Yeah, they're not going to let him out of his show. Yeah. He's too powerful. Yeah. How old is he? It's got to be 60-something years old. No, it's got to be in his 80s. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:36:05 Well, no. His son, Henry was like my age, a little older. So, yeah, he's probably 70, maybe 70. 77. 77. So he's 77. So an article came out that said he was currently in plea negotiations with the U.S. attorney in New York.

Starting point is 00:36:26 And I had heard, although I'm going to tell you, I did not see the article. I had heard from someone that said as like a good faith gesture, he had said, and there may be an article about it. I just didn't see it. But he had told the U.S. attorney, because they're in plea negotiations right now, that Zimbada's lawyer, through his lawyer, had told the U.S. attorney that not the current president, the female president of Mexico, but the past two presidents of Mexico were on his payroll. Right. Now, I think everybody probably believes that. I knew that anyway.

Starting point is 00:37:01 I don't think that's huge information. Most corrupt country in the world. Right. But the fact that he said, hey, like, can he prove that? Maybe. I don't know. You know, these guys are fucking getting killed it so fast all the time. You know, how-

Starting point is 00:37:13 America will lock them up if they do because I was with the Attorney General in Mexico. They locked him up. Right. He was right under the people you're talking about. Yeah. And they locked him up. Oh, they locked up the Attorney General. They don't care.

Starting point is 00:37:24 In Colombia, they locked. No, not Columbia. What do you mean? The president of Honduras. I was with him. Oh, wait. Wait, what's the other guy? No, wait. Where's, where's Juan from? El Salvador, Juan from? Yeah, no, I know. Yeah. Yeah, they locked up that U.S. attorney. But they only locked him up for about three years because he gave him so much information, then they let him go. Right. And that's what they're all doing. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:37:46 So what do you think the chances are that El Mayo? Well, El Mayo ordered a lot of murders. So I was with a guy named Lobo. Lobo, and I'm not lying to you, Lobo was a hitman for El Chapo. Okay. He was guise. operating, but he had 15 life sentences. He was trying to get them off. That's tough. No, he had 300 murders on his indictment. I'm saying that's tough. Yeah, he had 300 murders on his indictment that, I'm not saying he killed 300 people, but his team was a part of. So El Chapo had to stop paying him per body because it started getting so expensive. So he said he just put him on a monthly salary.

Starting point is 00:38:17 And this is real. They were killing so many people for him. So they're savages, you know what I mean? It's horrible. And some of them are not, these, the guy, people they're killing are women and children as well. Yeah, yeah. No, they'll take a whole family and put it in a bad. And that's why I realized this guy just should not come out, back out. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:31 The crimes are fucking heinous. And, I mean, the way they're killing these women and children, they're videotaping, doing horrible things to them and sending it to their rivals. You don't understand how horrible it is. So he was trying to get out and they wouldn't let him out. He was cooperating on everything he knew. Certain state, certain federal things would not give him a deal. He just lives in Woodstock for the rest of his life.

Starting point is 00:38:51 Right. Because they wouldn't let him out because, you know, he's chopping up kids. Right. Hanging them from bridges. You know, just crazy. shit. You know, you don't belong to come out. I don't give a fuck who you tell on. Right. You know what I mean? With the mob, a lot of times we kill each other.

Starting point is 00:39:01 Yeah. And they don't really care about letting you back out. You know what I'm saying? Because you're not killing a little girl going to school or kidnapping the wife, chopping her up and video in it and sending it to you. So what do you think with, so what about Elmire? What are they, what's the best deal he could get? All right, so I'm going to be honest you. Because he's guilty. He's not going to trial and winning. You see, Joe Messino was in the same predicament he was. And they said, all right, you'll cooperate, but you never get out, but you'll live in

Starting point is 00:39:26 which like the jail. They ended up giving him 13 years because he told on so much stuff. Joe Moino is big as El Mio in that world. So they said the same thing about Joe. He would never get out again, but he did. So you never know, but like he had 22 murders, Joe Mascino. He ordered 22 murders and he ruled the family for years and they let him out again. But with El Mio's situation is they kill civilians. Yeah. So I don't know how they would let them back. You know, I don't know. It's like cartel guys do get deals, but when you're that powerful as a car, like I was with Frankie, The head of the Tijuana cartel, the brothers, the Felix, the Felix brothers. I was with the one of the Felix, I believe it's Felix. They're the head of the Tijuana cartel.

Starting point is 00:40:06 Okay. There's three brothers. Okay. And I was with one of them. And he got 25 years after cooperation, but he wasn't a murderer. He was just one of the brothers that ran the family, but they still gave him 25 years after cooperation. Okay. Think about that. Right. And he told on a lot. And he's, yeah, what's the benefit for Al Mayo? I don't see. I think the only He'll die in a prison that's laid back. I can't see them letting him out. He ordered probably thousands of murders. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:32 No, thousands. Well, what I'm saying is the best, I think the best, so, you know, I think the best scenario for him is he gets to maybe pick a prison that's sweet. Six, only six units. You know what I'm saying? There's only six units. There's only six units you go into in one sec. That's it.

Starting point is 00:40:50 I'll name of Minnesota, Florida, Allenwood, Farrington, Arizona. Is it? It's five. No, that was... Oh, and, uh, um, Ferrington, Allenwood, Florida, Arizona, um, Minnesota, and there's one more. There's six.

Starting point is 00:41:11 There's, uh, it's it. You only got six units, though. That's it. It's, it's a, through the country. You can only go to six units. His fear is, his fear is probably... Oh, Otisville. He's going to end up...

Starting point is 00:41:20 And Odysville has one. His fear is probably he's going to end up in ADX. That's probably his fear. Well, if he's cooperating, he won't. Right, that's what I'm saying. That's probably why he's saying, hey, look, can you keep me out of here? Can you get me into this prison? And wait, there's also problems because I remember when Frankie, that's the name of the head of Tijuana

Starting point is 00:41:37 Cartel. So they killed his brother at a birthday party dressed up as a clown at the kid's birthday party. Okay, this is real stories. I know it sounds crazy. This is real stories. It doesn't sound crazy because I've looked into enough of this shit. They tried to bring the guy into our units that had his brother killed and he wouldn't accept them in because when you come into the units, they give you a picture of the guy,

Starting point is 00:41:55 coming in and everyone got to put their initials on it saying, do you have, do you know this guy? Do you accept him? Frank, you wouldn't accept him. He killed his brother. Right. His brother killed at a birthday party dressed up as a fucking clown. Right. This is crazy.

Starting point is 00:42:08 And then he wouldn't accept him in. So with El Maya, he has so many enemies in that cartel world. You got to hope that they even accept them into the jail. Some people are like, I'm not living with him. He killed my relatives. That's what happens a lot of times. And you get stuck in the hole. So until you can actually go into a unit because they say, all right, you have separation

Starting point is 00:42:26 with this guy, you have separation. With this guy, with a person like Kenny, might have a lot of separations. That happens a lot with the mob bosses, too. They don't want certain mob guys with certain mob guys because if their cases aren't done yet either, they don't want them talking.

Starting point is 00:42:39 So they'll put separations on you. So with Amaya, I don't know even if they could put him in those units. He might have so many separations and so many people that work for him, they might not want him in there. So he might be totally screwed regardless. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:42:52 I don't know the outcome with that. He's too powerful. I don't know. It's going to be a fucked up situation. for him. You know? You have to be accepted into units by the peers as well. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:03 No, I don't know what the... I wonder how they can figure that out in order for him to continue to cooperate because you know they want him or do they just fuck them? Like, you know damn well how many times did they say... Do you know how many years it's going to take

Starting point is 00:43:13 for him to get sentenced anyway? It would be years. If he's cooperating it, that's 10 years. I know guys that waited seven, eight years to get sentenced. Yeah, he'll probably die. Because they have so much trials after doing so many things. They'll keep you in there like that

Starting point is 00:43:24 just to fuck you because they know you're a savage, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's what they do. I've seen guys wait years just to get sentenced. How many guys, how many, how many people would be extradited from Mexico? Yeah, it'd be, that's 10 years of trial. I was with his son. Listen, if you met his son, his son was like harmless, but got 14 years for no reason. He cooperated. He actually experimented. So this is the story. I said it's before. They called his father. He called his father. He asked if he cooperate and they says he was okay. They said even Alchapo said it was okay for him to cooperate because everyone else was cooperating on him. So he got, I think,

Starting point is 00:43:56 We and him got sentenced together. So I think he got 15 years and he went back to California. That's where he was living with his family. And he's billions of dollars. He's the one that they caught in Mexico with the lawyer, right? Luna or something. They were actually giving information to the people. The florist twins brought them in.

Starting point is 00:44:13 Yeah. My buddy Margarito got him. Right. But I'm saying they were giving information. The head of the cartel was giving information through his son. First it was through a lawyer. Then they switched it to the son. They're giving them information on their rivals to have to take.

Starting point is 00:44:26 out the rivals, and they ended up just by accident grabbing him. They had it all over the news. They had him on the thing. You know, I mean, so he, like I says, these guys are multi-billionaires, not even millionaires. Yeah. So he paid a bunch of money, too. Did he pay over like, whatever, $100 million or $200 million or something, which is nothing? It's dollars and cents to them.

Starting point is 00:44:43 You know, they're making, they have, I remember they told me a story one time with Alchapos guys that the Mexican cops raid them to steal their monies to fight them. So what they do, instead of letting them steal the money, they burn it. They burned $250 million in a fact in a warehouse, not to give it to them. You know how sick that is? It's in the indictment. It's in the indictment. They burned and everybody was stuffing their clothes with the money.

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Starting point is 00:46:15 So the Mexican police can't get the money. Think about that. How sick that is. You know what I mean? So regardless, you don't think El Mio's got a chance, even if you cooperate, there's not going to be much. You never know with the government, but as I've seen in history, when you have heinous crimes on children and women and raping and killing and hanging them

Starting point is 00:46:33 and skinning them a lot. I'm talking about the sickest things you'll see. They made a little girl. I've seen one story. This is going to break people's hearts this story. They actually kidnapped one of the rivals' daughters. I read this in paperwork, and they may believe they were going to release her to the mother. So they pulled up to the mother, let the daughter run to the mother,

Starting point is 00:46:52 and then shot the daughter in the fucking back, going to the mother. Like, yeah, they're just, like, what is this like? Yeah. A 12-year-old girl, machine gunned her down in front of the mother, many believe they were letting her go, like to taunt them, toy with them.

Starting point is 00:47:09 That's in an indictment I had to read. I wanted to rip the paperwork and then beat them with it. You know what I'm saying? It was like, you know what I mean? This is, this, they don't belong out. They don't kill who you tell on. This is not like, this is heinous shit. This is like terrorism.

Starting point is 00:47:23 You know what I mean? So I don't like it. You know what I mean? So that fucks at me. I don't feel like everyone should get a deal. You know what I mean? Right. I mean, I understand.

Starting point is 00:47:33 I'm just wondering. These crimes are heinous. So a guy like that ordering these crimes should just be shot in the head, to be honest with you. Yeah, but there's been so many mob bosses that have done horrible. Kill women and children? No. I don't know about women. I'm saying just in general murdering.

Starting point is 00:47:45 Bad guys. It's wrong, but we're killing each other. You're not, we're not even allowed to hurt innocence. That's a crime. crime in our world. You get killed for that. You can't hurt women and children. That's a go, no, no, that's what they believe in to keep the order. We'll kill your family. What's the difference between the mob and the, um, cartels? I just, yeah, I just told you. As far as like the work they do and their kind of values. Right. So we don't sell drugs, which is what we do. But I'm saying,

Starting point is 00:48:14 we're not supposed to sell drugs and no women, no children, no innocent people. Like my mom lives in Howard Beach still. That's the neighborhood I cooperate in. She works. She works. We're not supposed to sell drugs. But I'm walk the streets, they still say hello to her. There's nothing to do with them. You understand? But the cartels, they'd shoot her 80 times, throw grenades at the house because of what I did. That's the difference. My mother, my whole family could walk the streets and they'll say, hey, how you doing? Hey, what's going on? And these are people I hurt. But with the cartels, they're shooting bazookas at you, your families. With the cartel, they'll go, they'll kidnap your entire family. Yeah, kill the goldfish, the cats, the dogs, everybody. They'll put them in a vat of acid.

Starting point is 00:48:48 Yeah, they'll, it's, and they'll video the whole thing. You're, you're, you're, you're, you're daughter, your son being tortured to death. And that's where... And that's where it separates scum dirt to, you know, bad guys. I can imagine the government getting all the information they want from him and then just double-crossing him. Because I see that happen just on a regular basis. Think about...

Starting point is 00:49:08 You got to watch the thing on the cops that brought down Al Chapo. They hated him. They said, this guy... The cop was going, I wanted to kill him. That's what they were saying because they know the crimes that he has ordered. Right. And they were investigators like, you have no idea. Like they were saying, like, it was so harsh for me not to just strangle them.

Starting point is 00:49:25 These are the fucking agents talking because the crimes are so heinous that they're finding women and children hanging from bridges. Did you see the movie The Counselor? No, which one was that? With who? I'll send it to it. I forget his name. Oh, with Matthew McConaughey?

Starting point is 00:49:38 No, no, it's not. He looks like Matthew McConaughey. I know the movie you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. At the end, they kidnap his, like, fiancee. Yeah. And he's like, he's calling up the cartel. He's saying, let me trade myself for her.

Starting point is 00:49:51 They're like, that's too late. Like it's... That's like Sicario. And then, yeah, and then one day he's, he actually goes down there trying to find her, and they just kind of ignore him. And then one day, but they know where he is. They're watching him.

Starting point is 00:50:01 And then they slip a fucking CD under the door, which he already knows what's on the scene. Yeah. They video the whatever horrific act they, they put up upon her. And that's real. That's what they do. Yeah. It's a horrible.

Starting point is 00:50:14 Oh, you know who is in that? Brad Pitt's in that. Not the main guy, but he's one of the guys. Yeah. So, you know, and that's what separates us. You know what I mean? And like I said, I was friends with the cartel guys. You know, like I said, Margarita Flores is my buddy.

Starting point is 00:50:26 I was one of my day. He wasn't doing that stuff. He was harmless. He was just a big money guy. He wasn't a killer and not like that. Super friendly guy. He was, like I said, good guy. But he worked for people that were, you know, doing crazy shit.

Starting point is 00:50:37 Yeah. You know what I mean? You were locked up with one of the two Flores. Yeah, I was very close with Margarito. Magrido was a good guy. Okay. I got along him very well. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:46 Yeah, they never did anything. No, they were our killers. They were totally against violence. They were just making more money and new. it to do it. You know what I'm saying? And they, and they got screwed. They got 14 years in. They should have time served. They took a bunch of fucking money. They, they, they, they, well, they didn't hurt no. I feel like they shouldn't have got time. I feel like they should have got time served. They did a lot for them. The guy went to fucking Mexico and wore a wire and

Starting point is 00:51:05 El Chapo. Like, come on, man. No, I'm saying, I'm saying they took a bunch of their money. Like they, they, they worked out. 60 million or something like that. Yeah. They worked out a deal with them and then the government kind of double, he took care of everybody in the units. He was super generous. He used to take care of everybody in the units. He literally drew me a birthday party. Right. In the fucking, me and him are six days apart. He's June 12th on the sixth. Yeah. He literally threw a birthday party and like fed the whole place. Right. That's how the good hearted he was. He was, you know, it's a great person. He literally had a guy on payroll. The guy had no money for his family. And he would send his family a thousand a month and the guy would cook him food every day and meals to make sure that he eats and because he don't like to go to the kitchen.

Starting point is 00:51:41 And he literally sent the guy's family a thousand dollars, $2,000 a month to make them because they had nothing. Right. To survive and just make me my meals every day. that's the kind of person he was, just helping them out. You know what I'm saying? He was a good hard of fucking dude, man. For real. Yeah, as opposed to most of the people he's dealing with. Yeah, he was nothing.

Starting point is 00:51:58 He's nothing like them. You know what I mean? Nothing like them. Didn't his brother get kidnapped in Mexico? For a month. It was really bad. Yeah. And that's how he met them because they didn't understand.

Starting point is 00:52:07 And that's how, I know the whole story. He told me so many times. And I'll tell you a funny story. He told me. He said that this is actually a funny one. I tell everyone in his story. And if he's watching it, he'll laugh with me. He says that one time they were beefing.

Starting point is 00:52:19 with the gang members in Chicago. And I guess he told Al Chapo he needed weapons. And Al Chapo sent him down weapons. He thought he's going to have weapons. He opened it up. It was shoulder rockets. He sent him down a truck of shoulder rockets. He calls him back,

Starting point is 00:52:33 Woody, I can't do nothing with this missile launches in Chicago. Yeah, they had to send him back and give me guns, not rockets. You know, that was funny. You know, I used to laugh with him because he had crazy stories. They sent them down a truck full of shoulder rockets. Like, because you're Mexico, that's what they use. Oh, yeah, Mexico. So he's like, this is Chicago.

Starting point is 00:52:52 He can't shoot shoulder. I'm like the military. Can't shoot missiles at each other in Chicago, you know what I mean? That's great. The boxer fight? Yeah, I'm trying to fight John Guy to third, John Jr.'s son. He just fought Mayweiler twice. He's a good fighter.

Starting point is 00:53:06 He's a M.MA fight. He's not a boxer. But that's why I rather box him. MMA, I'm dead. You know what I mean? I just keep away with you. Boxing, I don't think it'll be as bad. He's not really talented box-wise.

Starting point is 00:53:16 Roy Jones Jr. agreed to train me. He's a world champion one of the greatest boxes of all time. I'll be with him tomorrow. You're saying he fought Mayweather twice? Yeah. Okay. What kind of numbers did that bring in? Where'd that fight happen?

Starting point is 00:53:32 Oh, it was all over a paper view. Yeah, but you guys, you know, you and your buddy, you guys are like, you're like, listen, no offense. I mean, you're like regular guys. You watch sports. Yeah. I don't do any of that. I don't watch sports. I don't watch.

Starting point is 00:53:44 Right. So you guys are. So fighting Mayweather is like the biggest thing you could do. But Mayweather was older and toying with him. But Mayweather is still Mayweather. But I call them out. We've been, you know, going back and forth a little bit on the internet. And Roy Jones, we had a lawyer reach out to John Jr.'s lawyer and try to arrange it.

Starting point is 00:54:00 But, you know, the father's always a little jerk off. And, you know, he always talks his rat stuff. He's a rat. So it doesn't make sense. And literally. And we're trying to arrange it. So when I'm at Roy Jones Jr., he's going to, you know, let it be known the world known that he's in my corner and we're going to fight we're going to train and so what's

Starting point is 00:54:19 the status of that right now uh we don't know yeah once he sees roy jones in my corner and sees how serious it is then uh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean you know we want the money we want the you know so you're so tomorrow you're going to see roy jones and what we're going to talk a lot of shit where's that happening where in florida okay yeah he looks out here yeah so what what about the that indictment that we just pulled up the joe camarader junior indictment yeah so So basically he was the acting. Mike Einos put him in charge of the family in 2015, I want to say. And he was running the family.

Starting point is 00:54:51 And they got indicted. Him and Porky and a bunch of guys that were running the family. And what were they adited for? Just racketeer. Yeah, you know, this is typical fucking mafia shit. And they actually had the same lawyer as Vinnie Isar. Joe Camerneros used the same lawyer as Vinny did. Okay.

Starting point is 00:55:09 Though they had two lawyers. They had the one that just passed away, Mike. Why? Because he won the trial? I mean, she got really famous for that trial. She won the Latonza. That's one of the biggest cases. So, but anyway, they used her.

Starting point is 00:55:20 I believe my name's Elizabeth. And they used her on it. And then they had another lawyer named Mike. He was John Jr.'s lawyer and Joe McElhener's lawyer. He died recently, young. He died out of nowhere. I actually met him several times. Nice guy.

Starting point is 00:55:32 He actually told us John Jr. was a rat. Like he said, I'm not allowed to say it. He goes, but I was his lawyer. Right. Him and John E. Lay were like this. He goes, I can't say it. I'll lose my license. Right.

Starting point is 00:55:42 But he's like, yeah. John Jr. Radded like 100%. I was his attorney. You know what I'm saying? So they used the same attorney as that. And what happened was during trial, they went to trial Joe Cameron and Porky. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement.

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Starting point is 00:56:19 Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility, Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. Which was the boss and the concierge that's running the family. They, the lawyer goes, and this is how strict the organized crime world is when you're in it, you can't admit to what you are in that way.

Starting point is 00:56:38 So the lawyer goes, my defendant. it wasn't the boss, he was the consiglier. Okay. You can't do that. You can't say that either? No.

Starting point is 00:56:50 You cannot say your position in the organization. But his lawyer said it. Don't matter. He approved it. You're supposed to say, don't say that. And what happened was,

Starting point is 00:56:57 Mike E. He shelved them both. They beat the case. They beat it. They beat it because of what he said, this lawyer, but it also got them vanished from the mob.

Starting point is 00:57:05 Right. So Mike E. He knows didn't like the way the trial went down, and he then shelved Joe Camerado, Jr. and Porky. What does that mean shelf?

Starting point is 00:57:13 Like you're just out of the third or you're, it's it, you're nothing, you're a mutt. You're basically like a rat. So you might as well just go get a job. Yeah, you're basically no good to the family. You're like, you can't talk to nobody. You can't, you know, it's it. Go get a job at 7-Eleven.

Starting point is 00:57:24 You're no good no more. And it could be indefinitely. It could be a year, two years. It depends on how long they want to keep you on the shelf for. But the way they did it, they felt like it was a rat move, so it's indefinite. Okay. Because he said his position. So you can get shelf for like breaking rules, but that's a different rule.

Starting point is 00:57:39 Like you basically admitted in a federal courtroom that I wasn't the boss. I was the coniglia. Like you're saying, like, I ran the family. No, no good. They took them. They shelved them right away. What? You're admitting that there's a family.

Starting point is 00:57:49 Right. And then you're saying your position, you're a hot, you run the family. You're not supposed to do that. You know what I'm saying? So that's how they beat the case. And the Mikey knows the actual boss in jail said, oh, no, these are out of here. Shelfed them. Whole big thing.

Starting point is 00:58:01 There was a thing in gangland. It was a shooting supposedly something happened. Whole bunch of shit. So with that indictment, he lost his whole, his whole, status being indicted on that case. And he was running the family for Mike. Very respected guy, his father was the captain with the bananas forever. He was actually a Navy seal.

Starting point is 00:58:19 Yeah, a real tough guy. And, you know, his whole career was taken because of that trial. What else have we got? So what do you do? So you're trying to get the movie made. You're working on this boxing. Like, what do you do on the daily, like, was it a normal day? I train a lot.

Starting point is 00:58:34 I'm big into running and walking. I do about five to six miles a day. I do abs every day, weights every day I take phone calls constantly I get fan mail all day which I sell books I sign up for podcasts I sell high-end jewelry

Starting point is 00:58:52 I'm doing a lot I'm a money guy so I'm constantly just trying to make money yeah Roy Jones wants to do Now Roy Jones already made it clear he's very strict with his training and there'll be no fucking around

Starting point is 00:59:07 it's going to be like military school almost so once I really go with him it's like military he said like you're in the military and if this fight happens where i don't know you don't know any of that yet if it does happen it would be on a big platform are you going to try to what pull together other fighters to fight along with you guys as like a no card just gonna do a one oh i mean i don't know about that i don't know what they'll put together but i know what i'm trying to do and i'm trying to get him in the ring and see what happens yeah yeah we have a lot of connections with a lot of things right now this is actually

Starting point is 00:59:37 people don't realize how big this could be and people already talking about it like this could like blow up like huge. This would be a big rival thing. Like we, they sued me for $10 million that family. It was in the front page of the paper. But I'm going to be training with like one of the best boxes of all time, which is crazy. To meet him is just crazy. And now he's going to be like my trainer.

Starting point is 00:59:57 Right. I mean, that's amazing. That's like being trained by Mayweather. It's a dream. Yeah, but you've got to get the fight. I think it'll happen once they see him in my corner. And, you know, we have to hope that John Jr. just stops being a bitch. Right.

Starting point is 01:00:10 Have you considered maybe not saying that and that might help or not? He's a punk. He's a bitch. He's always been like that. He's like, oh, I don't want to support these guys. Boy, you're a rat. Like, you're a fucking rat. You're a rat.

Starting point is 01:00:22 You have the same thing that we have. Right. Like, you're no different than us. You know what I'm saying? What are you talking about supporting us? You're known. I sat at tables with captains and bosses when you were fucking labeled no good. And they were saying, don't speak to him.

Starting point is 01:00:35 Don't look at him. He's labeled no good. I'm lying about that. Like, it's facts. in fucking paperwork. So what are you trying to prove? You were labeled no good. You did 302s.

Starting point is 01:00:44 That's it. You're over. It's right. Stop. Get over it. You know what I'm saying? You didn't hold up to your name. That's it.

Starting point is 01:00:49 I don't care of you missed trials you had. You cooperate. You sat with the government. It's over. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200. You can't even agree to sit with them. Even if you don't sit,

Starting point is 01:00:58 let me tell you how this goes, Matthew. Ready? Even if you are the agents and I'm a mob boss and I agree and then never go and they found that I agreed, you're still no good. Right. You're still labeled no good because you even thought about it. they are. You know what I'm saying? So just he sat down and literally gave them information. He gave them the Curtis Sleeway shooting. Mikey Yannetti shot him in a fucking cab. He gave

Starting point is 01:01:21 them that shooting basically. And then turning around said he didn't want to, he didn't want to, oh, I don't want to, I don't want to testify. They said that he kept undermising yourself, blaming everything on his father. Right. That's what they said he kept doing his 302s. He kept on oh, my dad made me do it. Like he was doing one of those. Like, no, you did it. You killed somebody with your fucking own hands. Like you were a murderer of you. He killed more people in his Fala. Fala never physically killed anybody. His father never physically killed anybody.

Starting point is 01:01:45 He only ordered murders. Never was actually physically killed anyone. He wasn't one of the guys on the, on the, um. He was just there. He was there. Never pulled the trigger, never killed anybody with his hands. He only ordered them. Castellano, that's right.

Starting point is 01:01:58 That's what I'm thinking about. Never pulled the trigger. His son, John Jr., did. His son actually killed a few people herself and shot people. So I would say he has more work than his father. And he's sitting there going, my dad, and he's doing all this bullshit. He cooperated. He stopped the government.

Starting point is 01:02:09 It's it. So your son could get in the ring of me. It's not a big deal. I'm probably not going to win, but we'll see. No, you won't. What did you think about the Tyson fight against? Their friends. You know, Tyson 20 years ago, knocks him out with a jab.

Starting point is 01:02:25 You know what I'm saying? You don't think Tyson just kind of... He's old. No, but he couldn't move. You've seen his legs. I felt bad, man. You can see he wasn't the same Tyson at all. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:02:33 See, I felt like he just, he held back. I felt like it's for a rematch. You know how they were saying like he kind of... He can't do it again. No? No, no way. He's done. He's done. You could see he can't move no more. He has no legs. He has no nothing. He can't move. You know what I mean? Tyson's over it. You were, uh, that's what we're talking about. You look horrible. Yeah. But everybody was saying everybody, you know, like I was saying, and he'll, he's Tyson, he's going to knock him out. Like, it's done. It's over. But he didn't. Listen to me, if you bet the odds, if I would have bet that Jake Paul won by this, uh, one, if it went to decision, it was, I would have made a lot of money. Nobody thought it was going.

Starting point is 01:03:09 that. They all thought Tyson was going to knock him out. Yes. But he was so, but he was so like old and couldn't move and had no legs and he didn't even look right. Like Tyson, even 10 years ago would have pulverized him. You could see his whole body. He's 60. He's 60 and he's been through fucking hell. He's 60. If he was even 48, 47, 50, Jake Paul's dead. Dead. You can't even take it inside punch from him. He knocked out the strongest people in the world at the time. You know, I'm saying you can't eat a punch from Tyson. It was like, they said the equivalent of his punch is like putting a pillow in front of your face and swinging a metal bat at you. Okay?

Starting point is 01:03:44 So, like, it's like, he's old, you know? Right. It's more like celebrity boxing shit. So you keep showing up on News Nation. Yeah. Where do they bring you on as a... Private consultant. I was in a lot of these places that these people are in.

Starting point is 01:03:58 I was in the special units where these celebrities go in. And I know a lot about jail, prison. I did 13 years. I've been in all over. So they, they X my specialties on things and elaborate what it's like, what's in there, da-da-da-da, and they always use me. They like me. I've been on there seven times already. Yeah, so they most recently had you on for the Mangione what?

Starting point is 01:04:16 Yeah, last night. They wanted to know about the conditions because it's a, when there's a race riot in federal prison or like a gang riot, you see, that travels through the country. Because let's just say, I gave the scenario. Let's say MS-13s stab Serrano. These people are all through the country in federal prison. Now what's going to happen?

Starting point is 01:04:34 The shot callers go, hey, any MS-13, you see, stab him. MS-13. Like any surveillance. So they have to lock down the fucking country, God forbid, if it gets to that point. And they won't let you out until it's squashed. Even with a race riot, if they feel that they're going to let you out and you're going to stab each other, they'll keep you in that fucking cell for a month and make you shower in the cell. Everything comes to you.

Starting point is 01:04:51 You come out one at a time to shower for two minutes. You go back in that motherfucker. Phones don't exist. That's it. You write letters. That's it. So that's what he's involved right now is a race riot and everything's locked down. So he's not moving.

Starting point is 01:05:02 I had to explain that. You're basically in the box. Right. That's it. You don't move. You don't do nothing. until it's over. Mangione's in the box right now.

Starting point is 01:05:10 No, everybody is. Basically, everyone is because there's no movement, there's no phones, there's no commissary, there's no nothing. You're locked down until they,

Starting point is 01:05:17 even, it gets to a point in the real serious prisons where they'll have the shot caller from a gang to the other shot caller and the fucking, the security team will bring them in a room and make them squash it

Starting point is 01:05:29 and say, if you don't squash your shit, you ain't coming out. Right. You ain't coming out. So you just want to sit in yourself for fucking months at a time or you want to end this? because usually they're killing in penitentiaries.

Starting point is 01:05:38 Yeah. So if another one kills another one, they got to make sure it's over because they come out, it's a fucking gladiators. You know what I mean? We've had inmates where the warden goes and grabs the shot. You have to. And we'll go from door to door. You know how it goes?

Starting point is 01:05:50 You know how it goes? I mean, I was in the medium. It don't matter. It's still shot calls. Go to shot calls and they'll say, hey, listen, if you don't squash you, he's ain't coming out. I understand. But I'm saying, I never saw them do that.

Starting point is 01:05:59 But I do know that they would call them to the warden's office. And so they have conversations because what would happen is something would happen of the pin. I was only in a medium. Something happens to the pen. They lock us down at the medium too. They have to. They like both pins down the medium, sometimes the low. Right. And then, but we would never get locked down for very long because they realize that they bring the shot callers in. They have a conversation. They go back. Everything's okay. Because they realize like, these guys are like, look, we're in the medium. Right. We're not doing anything. They're cutting and fighting. Penitentiaries, they're killing. That's the problem. That's the problem.

Starting point is 01:06:29 They're stabbing you to death. They're not like cutting you. Right. They're stabbing you. They're trying to kill you. So it's a little different when you have penitentiary beef. other ones. You know, you know, when you go into, when you go into, you get moved to any prison. Right. And this isn't just me. It's everybody. Everybody gets talked to by SIS. Of course. I mean, you have medical. You have certain checkups, right? You have to talk to medical. Don't get off the bus. Right. Yeah. So, so you go and SIS comes in and they're like, and so they're, you know, you have a member of a gang. You remember this. If you cooperate against anybody that's in this institution, do you have any separaties against you? They go through the whole thing.

Starting point is 01:06:59 And I remember one of the, the best, the best version I had of this was the guy said, Listen, at the pen, we're trying to keep these guys from stabbing us. Right. He goes, at the medium, we're trying to keep them from stabbing each other. He goes at the low, we're trying to keep you guys following the rules. Right. He was just follow the rules and you'll be fine. And I was like, I'm good.

Starting point is 01:07:18 I'm a rule follower. I'm good. Yeah, well, the pen, anything goes. Yeah. Well, they, you know, their guards are just trying to keep, like, I just don't want to get stabbed. You know what you guys are doing. Natural lives, double lives. They just don't give a fuck.

Starting point is 01:07:27 And when shit cracks off, it's like, they'll lock you down. They'll keep my friend who's in Hazleton. He was locked down for a month. They killed a guy right there. They still have him 100 times. You're not coming out until it's squashed. Yeah. They still have the guy 100 times.

Starting point is 01:07:37 You know what I'm saying? Like in his face, literally mask him. And he's like, he's ain't coming out. You know what I'm saying? So he's in the same prison as Diddy. Like all these guys.

Starting point is 01:07:47 Unit. Yeah. So these guys are probably... Four North. They're in four north. Mm-hmm. So if you're in the unit, that means that, you know,

Starting point is 01:07:53 he might be downstairs. And on the second tier, Didi might be right over there. Well, this is a dorm. So they're dead dorm. So they're just laying on their beds. Oh. That side is dorms.

Starting point is 01:08:01 So you're just chilling in your bed all day. Oh, fuck that. Yeah. I'd rather have a cell. Yeah, you're just in your, you're just on beds. It's his dorms. But it's only like 20-something people in there. And you were in the same, you were in that prison?

Starting point is 01:08:10 Yeah, I was in that unit, exact unit. I was with a bunch of celebrities in there. Yeah. I've only been in a, I've only been in one place that had probably 20 guys in. And that was when I first got arrested. And it was just like, there was just bunk bed after bunk bed after bunk bed after that sucks. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:23 Yeah. Is this the same prison that you were locked up with SBF in? Yeah. Okay. Or not. Yeah. Yeah. People that they don't want any regular units.

Starting point is 01:08:33 They can't. They're on the media. They're all over the news. You would think they would be in cells, though, because for protection. Well, they had cells, but I'll tell you why they took us out of the cells. An MS-13 killed a black hand. You know, black hands. You're in the feds.

Starting point is 01:08:45 They killed one a couple years ago. So they had to take all the MS-13s and separate them and had to put them all together. They put them all in Lewisburg. And then all the ones in MDC Brooklyn, they put in our unit, 83. Okay. Put them all in there. And then we got switched to the other side to the dorms. That's why because the MS-13s couldn't go nowhere.

Starting point is 01:09:03 They were lunchmen everywhere they went because they killed a black hand. So they couldn't go nowhere through the country. They had to get pulled out. You know what they do? They put them all on buses and put them in Louisburg. There was 1,800. I'm in Lulzburg. So.

Starting point is 01:09:15 Yeah. So these high-profile guys, they're not really with like just your average inmates. Like they're not in prison, like with a bunch of people. At least not yet until they're sentenced. Yeah, when they're sentenced, they go to a drop by you. But when you're in four north, it's only like 20. You have to be cleared by prosecutors. just cleared by everything to go in there.

Starting point is 01:09:32 You can't just go in there. And how long do you think he's going to be in there until they... It depends. They could hold you for years in there. Yeah. It depends, you know? I knew a guy that was fighting his case that was in the U.S. Marshal's holdover for seven years. And if you're cooperating, they'll make you stay there for, who knows how long if you know,

Starting point is 01:09:49 you got murders and stuff, you'll just sit there. I've seen guys wait fucking years to get sentenced when you're cooperating. If you got murders and trials and things, you can wait seven, eight years to get sentenced. Right. At least seven, eight years to get sentenced. You know what I mean? At his trial, he looked like pretty cleaned up. Like, he didn't look like he'd been sitting in prison.

Starting point is 01:10:04 Well, yeah, well, the units is really sweet in four north. You get access to everything. You know what I mean? They got a barbara. You have everything in there. Hlippers. Hockey tables. They got everything.

Starting point is 01:10:12 They're hanging out in there. There's nothing going on. It's a cool unit. Just no sunlight. Do you think he'll eventually be convicted? 100%. He's going to get life in prison. Well, they're talking about right now.

Starting point is 01:10:23 They're saying that they're trying to get that they didn't read them as rights when they grabbed his bag. I know. He's going to jail. making that argument, but... He's going to jail. Yeah, that whole... He has a state case and a federal case. He has to die three times to go home.

Starting point is 01:10:37 You know what I'm saying? He's got to die three times before he sees the street. Okay, that's it. So if they could die and resuscitate him three times, he's coming home. That's the only way. You know? That's it.

Starting point is 01:10:49 There's no... There's no but's about it. What other cases or topics have the News Nation had you on for? For Diddy with the Puff Daddy stuff going on? But that's just... That's just about the jail, what it's like for him in jail. Yeah, where he's going to be, what's the unit's going on. And my opinion on it, you know, which, you know, they asked me about that, which, you know, I don't like his charges, obviously.

Starting point is 01:11:10 Yeah. Disgusting. Because I was with R. Kelly as well, you know, he was another one in there. Fat, disgust and smells, don't shower. But he's the best thing that you ever see in your life. He could sing opera. He could play the piano, the guitar, anything. This guy's multi-talented.

Starting point is 01:11:23 And he always manages to put himself next to a gay guy. Guys, that's true. He always manages to find himself in a unit and he'll be next to the gay guy. That lets you know. Something's up. You know jail. Where do you go?

Starting point is 01:11:39 When you go to your, you go with your peers when you're going to prison. Yeah, you don't want to. So if you're going with the gay people, obviously you're gay, because that's not where you go. You know, I go,

Starting point is 01:11:47 even though I'm a cooperative, I look for Italians, always mafia. When I go anywhere, I go in prison, where's the Italians? I don't go, where's the gays? Yeah. He manages always to put himself in that area. They go together.

Starting point is 01:12:00 Even the offenders that are lying about being sex offense. They find each other. They still. Find each other. They're like a, it's like a gaggle of like geese. There's like 30 of them. And they create a community, even though half of them in the community are lying about being there. I was with a bad one.

Starting point is 01:12:16 But they still get together. The one in four north, we were with the cop, the NYPD cop that had all the underage girls. He was in the unit, me. His name is Carmine. and we didn't even know until it came out on the news. We didn't know why he was in the unit. It's like,

Starting point is 01:12:30 yo, you look like a, like he looks like Bart from the Simpsons. Like he looks like, they all. Like he doesn't look like, I'm like, what are you, what crime were you committing?

Starting point is 01:12:37 And it made sense when I seen in the news that he had 22 counts of pedoph shit, you know what I'm saying? And they gave him, and they gave him, he wasn't cooperating.

Starting point is 01:12:44 He just couldn't put him nowhere in the jail because of his case. Right. So they had to put him in four north. And they gave him like 20-something years. They smoked his ass. He was only 25 years old, too. something up real quick, even though I know you don't

Starting point is 01:12:57 know who this is, because it happened so long ago. Hold on. New York police officer that stuck baton in inmates's ass. This is 97.

Starting point is 01:13:15 He stuck, he took, I want to say it was a broom handle in a detainee's ass. I know you talking about. Of course. That was famous case. They gave that guy millions of dollars. What's the guy's name?

Starting point is 01:13:27 I forgot. In 1997, former NYPD cop Justin Volt. Justin. I knew it was a normal. Justin. So I was locked up with Justin. Okay. Justin was the nicest guy.

Starting point is 01:13:38 Yeah. It was in the low. He said, anyway, yeah, so what happened was, you know, and I mean, he never, listen, he never once said it, but it didn't happen. You know what I'm saying? They found some guy. I think his version was the guy they arrested him for sexually assaulting a girl. Oh, okay. And the guy was talking shit.

Starting point is 01:14:01 And when they got him back to the station house. They gave him a taste of his own medicine? That's what he said. He said he grabbed a, and I want to say it, I've heard other people say it was a baton, but I'm almost positive he said it was like a broom handle or something. I thought it was a plungeer. With a broomstick. Well, it was the, it was a broomstick.

Starting point is 01:14:15 Yeah. Okay, broomstick. It was the wooden part of a whatever. And fucking boom and fucked him up. So anyway, obviously, they found out about it what happened. And he was, he was. he was tried, he went to, went to trial. And he said, look, he said halfway through the trial,

Starting point is 01:14:32 they had offered, already offered him 30 years. And now he's looking at like 45 years or something even more. And halfway through the trial, he said, I saw how bad it was going. Right. And he went, and he said, after like the, whatever, two, three days into the trial, he turned to his fucking lawyer and said, can you get me the 30 years?

Starting point is 01:14:48 Yeah. And she said, hold on. She talked to them, came back, and they said, we'll do, we'll take the 30. And by the way, the 30 was just for violating his civil rights. There was a state case, which getting 10 years... It was concurrent. Correct.

Starting point is 01:15:01 So he only never had to go to the state. Yeah. So he, anyway, he was, you know, listen, Justin wasn't a bad guy. Right. Justin got married while he was in there. Justin walked at the low, didn't have any real problems. Of course, he didn't really talk to a lot of people either. Well, my friend Frankie was with the one that killed, um, that suffocated the dude,

Starting point is 01:15:21 what's his name, Ferguson? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the cop that killed the black dude and suffocated him. Yeah, you're talking about George Floyd. George Floyd. So the guy to kill George Floyd, my friend Frankie was with him in the units. He was out in a dropout yard in Arizona. And they stabbed them.

Starting point is 01:15:35 Frankie was there when they stabbed them. Really? They stabbed them. Yeah. I feel like I might have heard that. They did. They stabbed them up. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:41 Yeah. Justin said he had only had, I think, one fight the whole time he'd been there. Over his thing? No, but it wasn't even over his thing. He said, it was just an argument between, he's like, I don't, he said, it's just an argument. You know, you get into an argument, and the guy pushes you and boom, he fucking clocked him. And they had a fight. He said, I've never.

Starting point is 01:15:56 He never had. He said, now I've had guys maybe make a crack or two, but it never gets very far. And he was like, and that was like the first five or ten years. Yeah, because nobody remembers it. You know what I'm saying? That wasn't like in the public eye every time. Yeah, it was old. They forget about it. But he ended up getting married to like some girl he went to high school and got out.

Starting point is 01:16:12 I know he's out now. But he's a police officer. I was locked up with a lot of cops. I was locked up with DEA agents. I was cops. I know it's crazy because things blow over. I was in the state in Groveland. And you know, when you're in a state, they make you learn the trade, right?

Starting point is 01:16:26 you have to go to trade school. Yeah. So I'm in trade school and the teacher's assistant turned out to be the Buffalo path. And I'm like, how the fuck is this guy an assistant teacher? He's like, oh, it's 20 something years ago. I'm like, they trust him around a woman. You know what I'm saying? Like he's working next to, well, they killed the, what do you mean?

Starting point is 01:16:42 The guy killed the CO in Greenhaven that happened. I'm just, in general. It was crazy that you're saying that I'm just like, this guy is the Buffalo path bike. He had like 25 to life, whatever. And now he's a teacher's assistant. 25 to life. That's it. Yeah, that's all they give you in the state, usually in the max with that, you know?

Starting point is 01:16:58 But it was just crazy thinking about that, like, wow, this fucking scumbag is here with these guys, you know, it's crazy. Like, you never know who you're around. It's really nuts. Yeah, well, I think about it. It's old, and I mean. That's what I'm saying. And, you know, they get to the point where you're sitting there, you might hear about it. And you go, oh, my God, I can't believe that.

Starting point is 01:17:13 And then everybody else is like, yeah, he's all right. Because they've been with them for 10 years. Like, he's been here for 10 years. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, whatever. With those, I just can't. What about that? So I already told you, though, at this, the guy who was a part of the team, I think we had this conversation.

Starting point is 01:17:26 I told you about the guy who was a part of the drug team that was raiding houses on no knocks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was there, never had any problem. The junior. If you look up Abdullah, I was with Abdullah. Abdullah is the guy to try to shoot everybody coming off the fucking subway, okay, in 2009. And I was with this guy. Wait, you know, the best part is, and I'm going to let everyone hear this one.

Starting point is 01:17:45 So now in Ferretton, we all sit with our own tables. New York, sits with New York, because these are all different, you know, people. people in different states there. So I'm at the New York table. This scumbag sitting at the New York table. Now I'm with my friend Baghdad, my friend Nino. Yeah, he was nuts. He's a blood kid, real tough guy.

Starting point is 01:18:01 He actually had my back on this situation. I'll tell you what happened. So Mujo, who I told you with a Batthia kid that went home on a Rule 35, I don't know where we talked about that the last time. Real good kid. Anyway, so I'm with them at a table. And the terrorist, I call him a terrorist. Right.

Starting point is 01:18:17 You know, that's his fucking name. And, you know, he's not Muslim because he was hanging. the Muslims. Now, I'm fuming. So I'm like, he's not sitting at the New York table with us. They're like, oh, he's from New York. He lived in Queens. I says, he's a fucking dirty terrorist. I said he tried to shoot women and children coming off a subway and then he tried to blow herself up and he didn't know how to detonate the bomb the moron. He couldn't even kill herself right. I said, he's not sitting with us. I told him, you got to get up. We get into it. Wait, I'm going to tell you why I feel like, it bugged me out about the Islam nation a little bit because I'm like, All right.

Starting point is 01:18:53 So I tell him, let's go. What do you want to do? So I'm ready to fight with him at the table. But like, you can't do that any? I'm like, no, fuck that. He's a fucking terrorist. I ain't sitting with him. He's not from New York.

Starting point is 01:19:00 He's from Afghanistan, wherever he's from. He's from these fucking one of these fucking things. Wait, wait, wait. He's from a lot of these areas. I said, you can't, uh, you, um, I'm not sitting with him. And they're like, oh, you can't do that anyhow. I said, no, fuck that. I got up.

Starting point is 01:19:12 I'm like, what's up? I went after him, basically. Boom, boom. Now, wait. I go back to the units and I see the Muslims all like lined up. Right. I'm not thinking anything down.

Starting point is 01:19:24 It's like seven of them. Now my bunky bagdad, who I told you about, double murder, notorious gang leader, tough guy, like a boxer tough. Like everyone knows he's tough. Me and him became good friends.

Starting point is 01:19:35 Bro, the fucking Muslims run down on me. I go on myself, they come in there. Like seven of them. Right. What are you doing with the brother? What do you mean the brother? So he's a dirty,

Starting point is 01:19:45 terrorist. He's not a fucking brother. I said he tried to kill innocent people coming off a fucking train. That's not a fucking organization. He's a dirty Al-Qaeda terrorist, I said. He's not a fucking Muslim. So if you're protecting him, then you're a fucking terrorist, I said. And then Baghdad came in and he's like, yo, what he's up? What do you want to do?

Starting point is 01:20:01 The fuck he's in here for? What's up? And then everything changed. Baghdad goes, what do you want to do? The Muslims like, oh Baghdad's like, that's not a brother. He's a fucking terrorist. Now he's her in the wrong. Why are you sticking up for this guy?

Starting point is 01:20:16 He's a fucking terrorist. Whole big thing. It fucked my head up because I'm like, all right, so they do protect these motherfuckers. Right. How you get,

Starting point is 01:20:25 this guy is a known al-Qaeda member. He tried to kill women and children coming off from New York subway, tried to blow herself up and kill people, but now he's with the Muslims and they're protecting him. I says, well, this don't make sense to me. Why wasn't he sitting with him?

Starting point is 01:20:38 That's what I said. He wants to sit at the New York table. I said, no, he's not fucking New York, bro. So my buddy Joey Caves pulled up, Joey Capitiello, who was a hitman for the Colombo, family would purposely play basketball with him.

Starting point is 01:20:48 Right. He'd go up for a layup. Abdullah was going to the front going, every time I go play basketball, Joey throws me on the floor, he hits me, Joey caves is cracking him. He would go up for a layup. You just see Joey boom, bum rush him to the ground.

Starting point is 01:21:02 Because he's a terrorist, bro. Right. You're not a fucking, you're not a criminal. You're a fucking dirty terrorist. And then you're being protected by the Muslims. It just had us furious. Furious! So, and we were in there with this guy,

Starting point is 01:21:13 and we had the deal with this. You know what I'm saying? And we made him not, we made him leave the New York table. I got my way. Okay. I'm not sitting with him. So what do you do? He ended up sitting with the Muslims. I don't know why he wouldn't have been sitting with the Muslims to begin with. Like, he shouldn't be sitting with them at all. Why are they taking him in? Right. I understand what you're saying. But in the end, I know, but it fucked my head up. It just made me

Starting point is 01:21:35 think like, all right, why are they accepting this guy? He's al-Qaeda. Why is he sitting with you guys? You know what I'm saying? It just messed up my whole shit because I'm friends with a lot of Muslims. But then I was not like, are you, you're taking this guy in? Right. He's not a criminal. He's a fucking scumbag. I tried to kill innocent people coming off a train in New York at that. And then you're going to try to sit at the New York table like, you're one of us.

Starting point is 01:21:57 I told him, get the fuck out of you. You're not sitting here with me. And I exploded. And I pulled one of my fucking, and I'm just coming from regular jail still. I just knocked the guy's teeth out in the county in Jersey. Right. You know what I mean? And then I was in a cell where somebody died.

Starting point is 01:22:10 Literally, in a cell where somebody dropped dead. So that's all over the internet. It's no one thing. Like I was in a cell. Yeah. Bugs in Jersey died in a cell where I was in. He died. He died.

Starting point is 01:22:19 He dropped dead. So now I'm going into Witsack prison and you think I'm going to sit with a terrorist? Because I cooperated. Well, me, clearly you didn't. You know, I obviously, I understand. Not having it. And that's why I told people. And then they were getting mad at me to step because I'm, I'm like, not inciting.

Starting point is 01:22:36 But I'm telling people, just because we cooperate, don't mean we got to be bitches now and accept this bullshit. And people like, you can't do that now. I'm like, I'm just saying, like, I'm not going to change my ways. because I cooperated. Like, you're not going to have me sitting with fucking China lessons and fucking terrorists now. Right.

Starting point is 01:22:50 You know what I'm saying? It's not happening. Why? So why was that guy in the unit? He was telling, he was cooperating against Al-Qaeda. Oh, real? Oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:22:57 He actually gives seminars for the FBI. Teach them about terrorists. He gives seminars, this douchebag. Yeah. He got out? Yeah. Did he kill anybody? No, he tried to kill a whole bunch of women

Starting point is 01:23:10 and children on the subway. Okay. So he tried to shoot him. He had an assault rifle. Yeah. And then he had the thing, to him. The bomb. The fucking, he couldn't detonate the moron. So he wasn't able to kill anybody. No, tried to him. He wasn't able to kill himself. We used to call him the dumb terrorist,

Starting point is 01:23:24 the fucking idiot that couldn't do. Yeah, he couldn't even blow himself up. I told him cookie heels together. Maybe you'll blow up now, you fucking douche. We used to terrorize this guy. He hated me. He hated me. And all of us, you know what I mean? So I gave him a hard time. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching the video. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this. Also, we're going to leave all of Gene's links for his social media in the description. along with the link to Amazon so you can buy his book. Also, you guys, we're considering doing live streaming while we're doing the podcast so that you

Starting point is 01:23:53 guys can answer or ask us questions and we can answer those questions at the end of the interview. It would be connected to our Patreon. Please let me know if that's something you're interested in and if you'd be interested in joining Patreon so that you guys can kind of interact while we're doing the interview. Thanks very much. See you.

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