Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Fraud Expert Exposes Todd and Julie Chrisley $30 Million Fraud Case

Episode Date: July 23, 2023

Fraud Expert Exposes Todd and Julie Chrisley $30 Million Fraud Case

What would you, if you had to do something, without, without the chances of getting caught. Jess is in the other room. She goes, uh-uh. Because we've had this discussion. What is it? What's the crime? No, I can't. I mean, like, like I, is that, you know, for a gay guy, a flamboyant gay 50-some-odd-year-old man in federal prison, like,

how hard is it going to be for him zero all right zero hard very hard but but not a bad way what about rape what about the rape stand he's going to a low all right let's do this go mad go ahead i know okay so let me because obviously let me let me tell you i've i've been watching the christie you know more about this one than i do so damn it christley sorry Chris Lee. His name is what, his name is Todd. What's her name?

Julie. So it's Todd and Julie, Chrisley. And you're positive. These were not any type of mortgage loans. These were all. No, they never say they're mortgage loans.

They always talk about that they're either personal, a combination of probably personal and business loans. Okay. It's so surprising that they got it. It's got to be for them, maybe for that business they had. What was the business called? That was called?

Like, was it seven Cs or something like? Yeah. and you have to understand that they would go to small they specifically targeted small banks because they felt that they were less scrutinized through small banks and that they would want their business their business was more important to them so they tried they went specifically to small banks and the documents that they were providing you know you really can't verify the types of documents and they have perfect credit they have a hit tv show you know and let's face it the average

loan is if you're getting a two or three million dollar loan, that's not the average loan. So you're not being scrutinized like the average customer. You're getting professional treatment. But when somebody comes and asks for money, like let's say you just needed a personal loan for like bills, you got to explain what the money is for. That's what I'm wondering what they said it was for. They couldn't have like, we need this to survive. They couldn't have said that.

They're saying things. I'm sure they're saying things like they're investing in real estate. They're renovating, doing renovations. They're, you know, whatever. They're also consolidating loans. Like, they were doing different things. Well, let me, let me explain. Let me explain real quick, okay?

This is, so they had a hit TV show for several years. And they're, one of the guy, one of his business partners and the guy that was doing his books was a guy named Mark Braddock. You got, you know, you got Todd and Julie. They've got a bunch of kids from a few, from different marriages. I don't know if you've ever seen, like, like Todd is, to me, he's flamboyantly gay. but there's multiple times where he always gets upset when people think he's gay. He's like, why do people think? He's like, exactly what a good person would do.

He's like, I don't understand why people think I'm gay. You know, what? He's just super feminine. But so, which was part of the whole, the whole stick, right? Like it's comical, you know? Right. And so they had this show, you know, Chris, Lee knows best. and he's got a business partner, which I don't think you ever really see.

And they've got the grandmother and the bunch of kids and there's always some drama. And the show is basically talks about how he's made all of his money in real estate. So he's made a bunch of money in real estate and the various real estate holdings and rental properties, rehabs, whatever. Well, and there's always a drama. And I'm sure it's partially scripted, obviously, like most of these TV shows. They come up with a drama every episode. And it's doing well, but he's also spending an insane amount of money. We're talking about like $350,000 a year just on clothes.

You know, they go on exotic vacations. They live in this ridiculous house. What was the amount that they stole? Okay, so it's $20 million in bank fraud, and it's supposed to be $10 million that they screwed the IRS out of. But later you find out that it's really not. It's really about $5 or $6 million. Is that why they got sentenced to such a little amount of time?

Well, but they didn't. They got, he got 12 years. Yeah, she got seven, right? And he got 12. He got 12 for $20 or $30 million. Because they still haven't had the second trial to determine exactly how much loss there is. So this is similar to what's her name? Yes.

So I was reading on this that they were at one, the loss was so high. At one point, they were looking at life. So I'm just wondering how where the adjustment was. Because again, if I, if you saw what I was seeing right now, the fucking pacer, I'm on their pacer right now. Really? So I don't understand. So you're talking in pacer they're talking about life? Like it, were they stuck in charges?

No, no. When I was looking at when they originally got charged, they talked about what they were facing with. Because if you look at their charges here, there was. Okay, that's, that's, that's, that's, I saw, I know what you're talking about. I saw that. It's a lot. Yeah, there, I get it. there's over 12 counts of wire fraud, tax fraud, and bank fraud.

And they stack, if you stack the maximum, then they're saying, we're looking at life. Like he did something where he was like, oh, my God, we're looking at life. They're going to put us away for life. Like, that's what they want. Of course, they've never admitted they've done anything wrong. But let me go over it real quick. Go ahead. I'm listening.

And I'm pulling up the guideline calculator. So look, in 2012, he, so I'm put this way. So in 2010 or 11, he and this guy, Mark Braddock, they start having an affair for about a year, right? Todd Chrisley, who's not gay, is having an affair with Mark Braddock. Oh, the guy was? Yeah. Okay. He has this affair for about a year.

Then they kind of break it off. But he remains the business partner, and he's doing their, they're obviously doing their taxes. I don't know if he's just an accountant or if he's a CPA, but he's doing a lot of their paperwork for them. Right. They remain friends for the next year. Well, in 2012, Mark Braddock is let go. Todd says, look, you're done. You never really find out what exactly the reason is.

Also, their affair, by the way, was uncovered. And Braddock says that he and Chris Lee actually, he and Chrisley actually paid somebody $38,000 to keep it quiet. now in 2012 he gets let go well mark braddock is concerned that he's in the time that he's been with with uh the chrysleys he's done a lot of fraud for them okay so even though their tv show makes it seem like they make a ton of money a good chunk of the money that they're making is big is by borrowing money heavily from small banks using false bank statements and false personal um personal uh assets and assets in general that they just don't have and borrowing

heavily from these small banks two million here five million here a million here half a million there and you know sometimes they're even using the money to pay off existing loan mortgage loans right well i read in there uh in the criminal indictment that one of the loans he was going for he was saying yeah I don't know, 2 million or 4 million in the bank or whatever. And he had to fudge his numbers because they said he never has had more than $17,000 in his bank in any given time, which is nuts to me. Right. Oh, listen.

And they're emails if you want them for reference. And they're getting, they're getting checks for $200,000 for their, for their, for their show. Like every quarter. I mean, they're, they're pissing away money. you have to think too sometimes you have a ton of real estate holdings and maybe not all the real state's making money and so you're you're subsidizing some of those payments with with personal loans the point is is that braddick is very becomes very concerned that he's committed a lot of fraud over the years so he goes to the government and braddick was the accountant he's accountant

slash he says business partner so accountant yes accountant i think he was more of an account. Based on what Chris Lee was asking him to do, I think he was more of an accountant. So he goes to the government. They say the government. On his own? He goes to the government. Yeah, yeah. After like he's like, okay, we're done. He's furious. So he goes to, they say the government. Now, the IRS is that is, was running the investigation, but I also heard somebody else say FBI. So he either goes to the FBI or the IRS. Most places are just saying the government. So I don't really know.

I do know that there was an IRS agent that testified several times during the trial. So let's say the IRS investigates the whole thing. He goes and he says, listen, I have I have dirt on these guys. They've been committing fraud. I can give you all the documents, but you have to give me immunity. They say, no problem. Tell us what you got. And that's the Braddock.

That's Braddock. Braddock provides a bunch of documents, emails, texts. I wish we knew what type of loans they were asking for. It would just... No, no, I mean, I know that nobody's ever said mortgages. And I've read a bunch on this. I've watched a bunch of videos. I've read a couple articles.

They've never said mortgages. Okay. So they end up getting a bunch of documents from Braddock. Braddock, and these are documents, you know, they're damning. They're damning. Like, you don't get this kind of, this guy is blatantly, you know, Todd Chrisley is blatantly telling this guy, forge this document, forge that document, fake this document. Like, like, and if you don't know how to do it to hire somebody. Yeah, I saw that.

Talk to somebody and figure it out. Like I, you know, I need to get this loan. And so anyway, the point is, is that it, you know, it's bad. And this is what kills me about this guy. He really pushes the whole Christianity thing too, right? You know, he never takes responsibility. It's not like they ever said, look, you know, you're right, we're fucked up. Instead, what they said is that, and keep in mind, you've got different accounts, different emails, different phone numbers, different email accounts coming from Julie and Todd. Well, they say that Mark Bredek made up all of this, forged all the documents, even though you know in court, that the IRS is going to go back and make sure that it came from your email, your cell phone. It was your text.

Well, they investigate it for seven years. They investigate. And the new C. They hire a CPA when his name is Peter Trentonino. Yeah, I'm reading about him right. Actually, I'm talking to his name just came up. So did you know they filed bankruptcy? Oh, yeah.

That's the whole thing. is that they borrow $20 million in loans and then no they borrow bankruptcy like they can 36 million huh 36 million yeah but here's the thing they've paid yeah they will see I hear is they paid they paid old loans after Christmas filed bankruptcy and walked away from more than 20 million right wow yeah yes so the total loss is is roughly 20 million that's just the banks not what they are the IRS they're assuming the IRS will be another five to 10 million You know, they were saying 10 million, but typically it'll come out where maybe it's more like five million.

So Peter, he was the guy they hired. Yes. And he's doing the same thing, by the way. He's also forging documents. Yeah, what did he get? He was sentenced to three years. Three years. Okay, he got three.

So he got three, she got three. No, she got seven and he got 12, right? Yes. Okay. So here's what happens is they are eventually, they're eventually indicted. And then there are superseding indictments. so they get indicted she is called to i think julie is called to the grand jury and asked to provide documents they then forge documents and julie provides those documents to the grand jury and to the

government in order to make it look like she didn't do anything wrong so now you're now so she also got hit with i think obstruction of justice i actually think they both did They both got hit with obstruction of justice. So they eventually get indicted. They go to trial and they go to trial, bro. Like they went to trial. This is just killed. Do you know what plea deal was offered if one was offered?

So I watched a video with an attorney, this father, son attorney team. Right. And they said that based on what they were offered, it was better for them to go to trial. Just like we talked about on the other video. It was one of those rare occasions where it was like, okay, you're not really offering me a great deal. Right. Like if I go to trial and lose, I'm going to get basically probably close to the same deal. So they go ahead all, but here's what kills me too is all three of these guys go to go to trial.

You're freezing a lot. Well, I mean, it's being recorded on my end. I don't see me freezing at all. Oh, you're recording right now? I've been recording. Oh, okay. I didn't know you're recording. Yeah.

All right. I did my intro when you left. Oh, you did the intro when I left. Okay. I forgot. I would restart your computer because the lack, right, it just did it again. It just did like a, your face was bevery and then it jumped to where you are right now. But you understand it's recording.

It is recording on my end. It won't do that when Colby gets it. When Colby downloads it, it shouldn't do that. It will. But I'm just letting you know I do this like. If you go look at the other video, you'll see, you'll see the jumps. Okay. I mean, listen, this is, let me tell you, the good, the great thing about, there are, there are positives and negatives to being extremely arrogant and narcissistic. And one of them is that I think even, even frozen and looking silly, I'm still gorgeous. You know, so, and I got Jess over here agreeing. She's like, yeah, yeah, that's true. No, she's not. She tells me that's not what Jess is saying. so she's like yeah okay you know we're recording all this time yeah that's why we sit here

talking i have a water but i don't have it with me all right well i'm gonna grab my water keep us going man i wish you told me you're recording i would have fixed my hair you just kidding you're frozen i think i'm not frozen anyway um they they end up going to trial right in the trial guy Mark Braddock, he gets on the stand. He talks about the affair. They deny it. He talks about and, you know, one of the things that was mentioned was the defense attorney for the Crisleys. They're like, listen, you're spiteful and you're holding resentment against this guy. And he admits it. They're like, you just want revenge for being fired. He's like, you're right. I do want revenge. But it doesn't mean that the documents are inaccurate or that I've done it.

just did the 60 minutes. I'm sorry? Was he just interviewed by 60 minutes? I have no. I don't know. I don't think I just saw that. What's his name? His name is Mark Braddock.

I think he was just on 60 minutes and he was talking. They were asking him about that and he was, he was very open about, yeah. I mean, I got a lot of ill will for these two, but nothing what I said was false. Right. And not just that. You've got the, I've got the documents. I've got the emails.

and the government is going to authenticate those documents. So, right. You know what's funny is like sometimes that the authentication can just be there was an email, but they don't know what the body of the email said, but still, sometimes they do. And I'm sure that he was keeping all of these records. Regardless, the government certainly believed him. they certainly committed fraud because they were here's the thing they're he's they're providing

false documents to obtain loans and then the second CPA he's also providing false documents so even if you said hey braddock is lying really because the next guy did the same thing so you're telling me that both of your CPAs or your accountants are falsifying documents in order to get you loans and the second guy's doing it out of the good of his heart and you didn't you didn't instruct him to do it either come on man stop right right and that's why people think because they've hired an accountant versus a bookkeeper that's all going to fall on the the accountants like if now i'm sure if the accountant went out of his way and did this without the uh the borrower or the the client knowing about it that's different but a situation like this there's there's no

there's no escape go. Everybody is going to tell. And I also imagine these guys, once they decide to go down the path of like fraudulent activities, if they were to get together and get a pal, I'd say, all right, we're going to do this fraud. We can't talk about it. We can't send text messages. We've got to use codes so we can go meet. Even when people do all of that, even drug dealers, when they're like, I don't ever want to get caught on the phone or a text message. At some point, I'm going to do it once. And you send the message. And then I think you get so complacent. And at some point, if he probably hadn't filed bankruptcy and did his best to repay these loans, he may have, he may have gotten away with it. Oh, yeah. It may not have gone away with it for a long time. They investigated him for seven years. And I did check. It is, it's all personal loans. These were at least what I read.

It says it right here that they obtained, was it 30, was 30 something or 40 something? Million. It was 36 million. Yeah, I got it right here. see right here it was so much to read 2014 where they walked away from 20 million that was what they walked away from the amount 36 36 million in personal loans and look I was a mortgage broker at one time and I'm not going to say I never did anything to get a to get a loan done I definitely didn't comprehend the consequence and the punishment because I justified it in a million

ways. Oh, they can afford it. It's just, it's not fair the way the system set up and whatever it was. Really, I just wanted my commission. That's really the truth. I wanted my commission and I was going to go scratch numbers, white out. I was always fear, though, that that the lender would pull, I forgot what was called, where they could pull your, pull your actual tax return versus There you go. 4506. 88821, one of those two documents. Yeah, the 4506T, I think, is what it was that was that we were always afraid because we had a pretty, you know, everybody's got their underwriters and whatnot. We had this guy, Paul that owned his own processing company. And he was adamant about, man, if I ever catch any of you loan officers submitting a falsified documents that that the client didn't give you directly. But we were, we were encouraged to do what we had to be. do to get these loans done. Remember the pick of pays? And these guys with the, and these loans were given to them in what year? Distributions were 15 and 16. So filed tax returns to pay any taxes for 13, 14, 15, or 16 years for the tax years of

2013, 14, 15, and 16. So they went all of these years. How were they getting loans and not paying taxes? Well, they're probably just not, they're not providing the taxes or they're providing false tax returns and they're not having them, they're not pulling it. falsely claimed the company earned no money and made no distributions in 2015 and 16. That's what they're telling the IRS. Yeah. You're telling the bank one thing and the IRS something else.

And that happens all the time. So what was the guy's name that out of him? Mark Braddock. Braddock and he was given immunity, right? You were saying? Yeah. Yeah, he's looking out of the bunch. He's the smartest one.

What? You were going out eventually. What prompted him to go do that? Had the investigation already started? And or was he just like, you know what? These people are such scumbags. I'm going to burn the whole damn house down and save myself. Well, that's exactly what happened.

What happened was that they were, he had been obviously helping them do this. And his whole thing was, look, at some point, it's going to go down. And they're going to blame me. They're going to mention to, you know, I'm obviously going to get sucked into this. So my best course of action is to go preemptively and talk to the IRS. provide the documents and arrange a, arrange a deal where I won't be prosecuted. And that was the best call for him. Right.

So he obviously got an attorney who went in there and said, look, I got a client. Here's who these people are. Here's this. It's real rare to get full-blown for something like this. I mean, you'd have to know, like, where bodies are and, you know, really be putting yourself out there to get shit like that. But this is a big case.

This is, they're TV people. I think they had a lot to do with it. This was going to be a spectacle. Right, right. We get to make names in the industry, as Kanye would say. I'm not going to repeat what Kanye would say, but he ain't completely wrong, Matt. So what happens? Just saying.

So they go to trial. They go to trial. They lose spectacularly. Yeah. You know, they didn't, they didn't testify. Obviously, it would have been great if, you know, they'd, They had testified and Todd was up there going, uh-uh, no, you know, but anyway, he didn't. So, um, but Braddock did and, uh, the agent did and multiple, listen, multiple people

testified against them. Um, anyway, they end up getting hit and they get, so, so Todd gets 12 years, Julie gets seven, uh, Peter Tarantino, he gets three years, but he, he gets three years, but he, here's the thing. What I wanted to mention is based on the sentencing guidelines. Now, they still have a second trial that has to be done to determine how much money they have to pay in restitution. Right. But Todd and Julie got hit with the same sentence. Okay. Todd and I'm sorry, the same, they got hit with the same charges. Oh, got you. But Todd got significantly more than Julie. Right. So why is the question, right? Right. Right. Well, I was going to mention, I wanted to mention is, you know, one, we've talked about

this before. Well, first of all, I want to mention this is that you're, you know, what you do for a living is prison consulting. Right. Right. So you consult with people that are going to be sentenced. You help with the PSI. You help them mitigate their, what their sentence will ultimately be. Right. But be clear, though, I don't help with the PSI. I help with preparing you for the interview of the pre-sentence interview. So the way a pre-sentence interview is, let's say I lose at trial or I take a plea agreement. Before you're sentenced, the government arranges for you to be interviewed by a probation officer. Who's, who's third party non-biased. So he has no, no skin in the government's take or in the defendant's side. Supposedly. So he goes in and he says,

look, this person, they were, they were charged with this. And he says, so let's say, take Todd, for example. Todd was charged with he has a, um, first they, they placed you in a category. Like how many criminal history points do they give you? Has he ever been convicted of a crime? No. Then you would be category one. Right. This is this first one. Right. Now, if you were two or three or four, you would, they would add different. Well, if the crime was bad enough, it could also enhance the criminal history. Right. But in his case, he's never been convicted for crime. So, Scott, category, yeah, category one. All day long.

Second thing is he is, his first, his count is wire fraud. So, or bank fraud. Bank fraud with, sorry, the main one is bank fraud. So with bank fraud, it's a level seven. So at a level seven, you don't go to prison. You know, you get, you get probation. Right, but nobody. It's a level seven plus.

Right, right. Because then they hit you with the enhancement. and the enhancements are when they is what kills you because his first enhancement was like 18 points I think right well his yeah his first enhancement was it was it was like 20 it was 20 levels because it was between 9.5 and 25 million dollars from what I read he landed on a 40 I was trying to look it up on my mouse just died or something so I'm stuck on the screen but I thought he landed on a 40 on his offense level right well he didn't understand how he got such a short sentence though his original guidelines were life well category 1

He won't, 40, no, he didn't end up on, he, his, he ends up with a 37. Level 37. Level 37. Look at the guidelines. Look at the guidelines on a level 37, man. That's like 360 months. Really? Look it up.

Go to, I can't. Actually, yes, I can. I got my iPad. Keep, keep talking. Sorry. So he ends up getting an enhancement, obviously for the money. That's 20 levels. He ends up getting for, for lying in a bankruptcy.

He gets another two, he gets another, another, another two. level enhancement. He gets another two levels for sophisticated means. He gets another level for borrowing more than $1 million from a financial institution. By the way, I've got almost every enhancement he got. So he also got an enhancement for, what was the other enhancement? I think something changed right before sentencing because if he had, here it is right here, you said he was a 37. Yes. So if he would, now I don't know enough about this case to know, that he was at 37 but assuming after all of the the ups and downs his adjusted base offense level after everything's said and done if it landed at a level 37 with a category criminal history

one that's 210 to 262 months that's that's the the recommended guideline range now i don't think he had a minimum mandatory because of this type of crime so the judge of course could go below that but to only get what he got there must have been some significant arguing at sentencing or the pre-sentence report came back way different because just to be real clear, and maybe you'll add this in when you talked about the pre-sentence report, Matt. The whole point of the pre-sentence interview for anybody that's watching is once everything's said and done and you've gone, you've pled guilty, you went to trial, you lost, now the government submits their findings to a probation, third party, and the defense submits their findings to

probation. And then you go in for like a bullshit interview, which isn't a bullshit interview, but it turns out to be a bullshit interview because most people go in so ill-prepared. It's 30 minutes to maybe an hour. They ask you a bunch of yes and no questions. It's mostly about finances, money and money might have somewhere, properties, family, mental health, substance abuse. Most people aren't really prepared for any of these questions. So you're just kind of like, yes, no, yes, no. So now your entire life history came down to a 30-minute interview with you with a bunch of yes and no questions, some real light paperwork that was probably provided from your attorney. And we're talking like terabytes of information provided from the government as to why

you're the world's worst criminal. So you'll see these pre-sentence interviews when it turns into the PSR, the pre-sentence report later on given to courts as a recommendation to what type of sentence the pre-sentence thinks you should receive. In a situation like this, it just doesn't make sense why they get such a short sentence unless the pre-sentence interview found that the government's numbers were way off or the the defendant's attorneys were able to come in and argue those numbers at sentencing because that's a really short sentence for that loss amount I don't understand you just said like like when we talked about Elizabeth Holmes I'm not saying that he got he didn't get enough time I'm just curious like I

think that that's a fair sentence for him what he received. But I'm just curious on how do they get to that? Like the government, what was the government asking for? They couldn't have been asking for that. They must have been asking for something more. I don't actually know. I don't know what the government was asking for. So I'll do some more research on this by the time you're done editing all of this. And maybe when you send it to me, I'll add it in here because there's got to be the guidelines cannot be. He couldn't have been in a fence level of 37 unless he got some kind of a departure for something. Did he tell on somebody in the very end? I have no idea.

Yeah. I'm curious. The story, the, the, the, the, the, I watched a video on, with these two lawyers and they were, they were going over what, like, the pre-sentence report, you know, they were going over the PSI, or I guess the government's response to the PSI. Like, they were arguing back and forth. And, and the argument was that it wasn't sophisticated means that it should, the, the, you know, obviously they argued across the board on the dollar amount and all of these different things. And in the end, when they got in front of the judge, the judge said 12 years, 12 years for him,

seven for her, three for Peter, you know, Tarantino. Well, if that, if he was at 37 and got that, he should be, yeah, internally grateful because it's, that's not a hefty sentence for, for what he allegedly did. Well, here's the, here's the second thing is that they filed a motion after the, they they filed, they're asking for a new trial based on the fact that the IRS agent got on the stand and told the jury that he had not, that they had not paid their taxes for certain years. And they actually did pay the taxes. Then they said, well, it doesn't make sense. Like you're saying he still owes money or that Julie and Todd still owe money for this year,

this year and this year. And she was saying, yes, they did. They do so owe money. They didn't pay those taxes. And of course, their whole thing is, no, we did. Like, like, obviously they knew they were getting, they were going to get, go to trial. So they went to pay the back taxes. Well, it turned out that the IRS, they found out later that they did, that they did pay them that there were fees that the IRS had said were still owed, but those were actually paid also. So they, didn't owe anything on the back taxes. So now you're like, you just told, had an IRS. What was the amount of back taxes? I'm not sure. It was what she's saying. Like, she couldn't say. That was the other thing. It's like, you're saying that they still owe money for,

you know, whatever, 2012, 14, and 15, let's say. And she's like, yes, how much? Well, I don't have the exact number, but I do know they still owe for those years. They did not pay. Well, did they pay anything towards it? Well, I do not know, but I know they still owe for those years. So the jury is hearing like not only did you defraud the banks, but you haven't even paid your taxes knowing you were going to trial. So turns out they did pay them. And so they're trying to get a retrial. And this was a, this was a three week trial. So my question would be without knowing anything other than what I'm hearing right now, just we don't know the amounts. Let's say the amounts were wrong. Let's say they did pay back I don't know, whatever amount they say they did pay. I'm assuming there's that there's still

fraud being done and the discrepancy might be we didn't do everything you said we did. Our guidelines potentially should be lower, which means we're probably facing less time if you were to have the correct numbers. That could play into a role as to why the judge maybe did downward depart if that's the case, if he did, because basically if they were at a 37, based on what the judge gave them how many years, 12? 12 and 7. So 12 and 7 would be. hundred and 30 something months to like 168, which would be a level

33. So maybe what the judge is thinking, if all of this does come back and they end up being right, maybe he dropped it enough guidelines that if the numbers that they're saying they were, he sentenced them within that area. So there's really nothing to come back and say, look, even if you're right, but even if we were to open this case back up based on the loss that you're admitting to, I sentenced you within those guidelines.

So do you really want to come back and test your patients and see what I sentenced you this time? Right. The judge could be doing that to kind of prevent the possibility of him getting a retrial. I mean, I don't know, but that's a thought. Right. So, well, and keep in mind, too, just because the PSI said one thing, you can get in front of the judge and start arguing. And suddenly the judge says, you know what, I agree. It's not sophisticated means.

You know what? I agree. I don't think they did. meaning meaning mean to lie during the bankruptcy you know what like they can start the judge can start knocking off the enhancements oh absolutely it happens all the time i mean sometimes there's these weird they're called see please see see one plea whatever it's called and that's you're agreeing to not argue anything at sentencing you're agreeing that i'm taking this it's seven years 10 years there's judge has no ability to go down or up um but most situations like this you know

you can't, you can't argue what you were found guilty on, but if your discrepancy with the numbers, and that could have been a reason why they took it to trial and didn't take a plea deal. Like, man, if you gave me a plea deal on the real stuff, we see it happen all the time. We have a client right now that, uh, he got caught. He was doing a bunch of stuff he shouldn't be doing overseas, smuggling stuff. So he's working for the government now doing basically under, undercover type stuff, but they're making him use his own money. And then they're, they were reimbursing him. So the last, the last one that he did is a big drug deal. The last one that he did, he used his own money. It was like half a million dollars. Did it. Everything went the way

it was supposed to go. The government didn't pay him back. So he did one more without them knowing about it to get his money back. And then they nailed him for that one. And when he went to sentencing, it was like, it was black and white that the government owed him a half a million dollars and nobody cared judge just didn't want to hear it since it's it's nuts to me i mean he did go do it again don't get me wrong but usually you don't see them asking you to use your own money that's kind of weird to me but i mean it was it was true as rain dan if i'm i'm not going to sit here and listen to you say that the government's unfair i i refuse to that the use are you if you're going to suggesting that the u.s government is unfair during sentencing

Well, that's the thing. And that's why you have to have a good attorney. And whenever I hear my client, when my clients are telling me, man, the numbers are wrong. I'm like, look, your attorney can argue this at sentencing. The problem is, is most attorneys, their preparation for that. And you have what's called your sentencing memorandum where attorneys are supposed to have the sentencing memo completed, you know, a couple weeks before sentencing. And a lot of the discrepancies that you guys, because kind of going to sentencing, even when you take a plea deal, going to sentencing is like a mini trial. Because this is where your attorney gets to go.

and argue some of the, you know, numbers and things like that. And if they don't go in there prepared, I believe they don't want to. They're just telling you what you want to hear in the moment of you freaking out. But it's like, oh, man, we took a swing at it, but you know, it is what it is. And that's why people don't understand what we do as consultants. We try to tell them that, look, there's no magic wand. There's no magic pill. But if you don't know what the situation is and you're just trusting somebody else that knows more than you, you just have to have having having faith this isn't where you should just rely i'm not saying don't believe but having just blind faith without any action behind it in a situation like this and then

you get a shitty sentence and you go look back how many guys did you meet in prison that if they knew more about their situation not that they would have had a better outcome but how many times did they find something out that they could have done differently and it's like fuck why didn't my attorney tell me this and it's just you know it is what it is i i don't have an answer for that but it's very common yeah you have to be your own advocate you have to be you just can't kick back and you like you have to be take an active role in your defense these dipships here these two that we're talking about i like in elizabeth holmes i don't think she's a bad person i think she got in over her head and still wanted to somehow fix it because

for her i think it was more important to be the the female bill gates than it was to be the richest woman in the world right i don't think her initiative was money i think it was power clout like like she's hanging with the big league um these guys they just seem like bottom feeding swindlers that every angle they get they're just going to bleed take money and because they're on tv they figure you know yeah the guys are reality stars they must have money i'll give them a couple hundred thousand or a couple hundred million whatever they were going after but um they they they were buying fancy shit with it they didn't have any money to save they only had $17,000 in his bank account in any given time and you know I know there's people out there that

wish they had $17,000 in the bank account, but not everybody's given these types of loans and income. They also had great income on top of it. So, yeah, they should have gotten more time, in my opinion. He should have at least. Now, you were going to ask me earlier, why is her sentence less than his? Or I don't know if you were going to ask me, you were acknowledging that. Well, yeah, I know she got less enhancements. She wasn't as active as he was. Oh, so the guidelines weren't the same. No, their guidelines were not the same. Ah, okay. Because even when you see situations like this where guidelines are the same, like if Elizabeth Holmes was a guy, I think the sentence would have been much heavier. And I think if she was this, what's her name again?

Julie. Julie. We see it all the time. Women typically get lesser than men for the same type of things, most of the time. He's been known to cure insecurity just with his laugh. His organ donation card lists his charisma. His smile is so contagious. Vaccines have been created for it. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. Okay, so listen, so this guy goes in one time, he goes in, so I met this guy at Coleman, and it's actually funny because they called him his name was a thomas what year was this

oh this was 2000 i met thomas when i first got to coleman in the medium and it was 2000 uh 2000 uh two so it was 2004 not not nicholas thomas no no his his first name was uh was thomas i don't know what it's so um because it's funny well anyway he they called him tom and his roommate was Tommy, or is it Thomas and Tom? Anyway, whatever. So it doesn't matter. So anyway, Tom and his wife both went to sentencing. They had both signed for a plea of 15 years apiece. Okay. Now, Thomas's wife went in first. Tom and his wife had both been to state state court before, and they'd gone both into state prisons before, before even meeting each other.

And in the state, typically, you agree to get sentenced to, you agree, you sign a plea deal for 15 years. You get 15 years. Like that almost never deviates from that, right? It's like, because the state typically gives you very fair guidelines. Right, right. So if you say five years, the judge doesn't say, I'm giving you 40. Right. Like it could, that can happen in federal. A lot of times the, the, but this was state, not feds, right? Right. Right. But a lot of times in the federal courts, they deviate from what, what you've signed for. Because your plea, it says it right in there. There's no guarantee.

This is not a promise or anything. You know, this is just where we're promising to recommend the guidelines. Yes. It's up to the judge. It says it doesn't agree. And it also says you're not allowed to argue this if you're not happy with it most of the time. Yeah. Yeah.

So, so Tom, so Thomas goes in there. His wife goes in first. she gets 15 I'm sorry she's supposed to get 15 years she ends up with five right they both were told they were going to get 15 years

yes under plea agreements she gets sentenced first she goes in and the judge gives her five years gives her five years so he walks in he's and he walks in and his like his mom's in the court

and says how much time she gets his mom's like she got five years he's like oh that's great he's thinking he's going to get five years he's thinking what she gave yeah great so he goes up he sits down the judge

starts yelling at him and let you know that they go and they say yeah your honor we recommend 15 years blah blah blah blah well he goes they said do you want to say anything he says no i'm i'm good i'm good i know what i signed for i'm good so the judge starts talking about how he introduced his wife to to to smoking meth and he said when he said it he said he remembered thinking well that's not true like that's not what happened like he basically the judge starts lecturing about how he led this poor woman, you know, down the path of cooking meth and selling meth and how he ruined her life. And it's probably not that off from what she submitted. Oh, no, it's exactly what she said. Yeah. Because his mother later says she got up in front of the judge and your wife

cried and said how she had gone to jail before and was off math and met you and you introduced her back to math and convinced her to do this, convince her to do that. And, and convinced her to do that. and she was scared and she loved you and she didn't know what to do and and he made you sound like a fucking horrible person and then the judge said i'm going to take pity on you i'm going to give you five years wow so he doesn't know any of this thomas just sits there and listens to the judge talk go on and on and lecture him and finally the judge says just based on what your wife says and based on you know the knowing about the case and your history i'm going to give you 300 months and so it didn't oh you did say 300 months he said 300 months right what sounds

worse to you at 300 months or 25 years well 25 years sounds worse does it 300 months sounds horrible to me does it oh because I've always looked at everything through a car loan is is is typically five years a mortgage is typically 15 or 30 to hear that it's like but this is the guy who's making meth in his bathtub and his single wide yeah I did sharp so he he thinks i'm getting 15 years so when the judge says 300 months he just sits there his lawyer looks at him immediately like he goes he said my lawyer looked at me immediately and said you okay and he goes yeah yeah i'm good i knew what i was getting i'm good do you think the attorney knew at that point they know that he didn't comprehend it yes do you think the attorney should have

been like you know that's that's 25 or 30 of course he should have but the attorney's thinking i'm a public defender what difference would have made if he did say that it's not going to change the judge's mind well and he and you're going to be in 30 seconds the u.s. marshal's going to walk you out that door and i never have to fucking talk to you again yeah so i don't want to have this conversation i can at least dodge you for a real long time exactly so thomas sits there and so thomas gets stands up they handcuff him his mom's screaming and cry in the back they walk him out the fucking door they walk him back to the u.s marshals holdo or back to the u.s marshals holding cell he walks in

and when you when you go to sentencing from the U.S. marshal's holdover they bring you to a cell and so you know the guys that you come with all know you're all here to be sentenced right and that you're all they call hey Matt Cox you're being sentenced you get up and you walk out and everybody standing there they know you're going so when you come back the first thing they say is what did you get so he said as soon as I walked in he's you know how it is bro I walked in they said what did you get and I said you know yeah um I got 15 years. I got 300 months, 15 years. And he said, they all kind of looked at him and went,

you got how much? He has 15 years. They go, you said 300 months. He was, yeah, 300 months. He goes, I mean, that's what I signed for 15. They go, no, no, bro, 300 months is not 15 years. See, I know because of what I've seen. No, if I would have heard him say that, I think I would have said to the other guys, I'm like, let him let this digest when he's ready. to digest it right now he's about to chew because there's nothing he can do and you're stuck into fucking marshals holding cell where you're with people that are like almost making fun of you they're kind of snickering a little bit oh listen it you know and like guys are brutal prisons brutal guys are brutal to each other in general what did this guy do again and what was

his crime he made meth he was a meth okay i can't you know meth heroin certain there's certain things you don't have a whole lot of like you're kind of creating bombs and potentially, you know, killing lots of people. That's why I was so lucky with my sentence because my contribution to putting drugs back out in the fucking world in the streets and kids and parents and all this stuff. It really was like, I don't know how I didn't see it that way at the time, but seen it now. And also what you just said about how she kind of filleted him at sentencing. Right.

Shelly got sentenced before me. And the, we took plea deals. But when the prosecution got up and they were like, Ms. Morford, you know, we know Mr. Wise, because there was emails back and forth and me trying to get Shelly to come work there and she didn't want to and this and that And she shut it down. She said, you're right. I didn't want to come work here. But we didn't know that what was ultimately going to happen. Yes, we admitted our guilt for what we did, but I'm not going to sit up here and say that it's his fault that I'm here. I did what I did

because I love him and I wanted to go with them. But it's not. I chose me. I don't think if she had said that. I think the judge would have hit me way fucking harder. Well, I think the judge, if you're truly honest, you know, I wasn't honest. Well, you may not have been, but I think when you're truly honest in front of the judge and you just say, look, here's what I did, here's what is so much better than getting up there and trying to bullshit them. Our next video, we do together. Here's what it should be on. Sentencing, mitigation, and what most people do wrong at sentencing talking about narratives and reference letters because even this chick, what's your name, Elizabeth Holmes? I read a lot of her letters and this one that

you just sent me, I just pulled it up and pacer and I was going through some of the headlines of the letters. It's the same. I'm not going to say Elizabeth Holmes would have got a better sentence, but all of her letters were, I guess she was a rape survivor. Did you know that? That was the first time that anybody ever heard. And you start using these things and children. and what a good person you are and how you've been such a stellar citizen in this world and you've brought change and none of it's focusing on the damaging consequences you did. Granted, she went to trial, so it's not like she could get up there and say she did it because she's going to try to appeal it.

But almost everybody we deal with takes a plea deal. And when you start reading their letters of what they're submitting to the judge, and when you say be honest, it's not about honesty or integrity or lying. it's, if you're really going to be honest, it's got to be so honest that I didn't think I was going to go to prison for what I did. But I started turning blind eyes. I started taking seemingly unimportant, I started making seemingly unimportant decisions that I didn't think were going to impact my life because it became so normal that ultimately in the end, committing crime didn't feel like it was illegal anymore. I was just going through life, living in the gray. And they

get caught and they get roped up and then all of a sudden their kids have cancer their mother is old their dog is right right it's like now i miss my children now i'm sorry and really all they're doing is they're looking for the attorneys only care about your acceptance or responsibility your potential 5k1 your potential plea agreement they just don't want you to fuck that up and everything else they don't care about but all the mitigating that that these individuals could be doing and it's such a lesson with these very, very wealthy people that paid top-notch for these attorneys. We're talking like more money than most people will ever see. They've spent just in these legal fees.

They still came in here sounding like everybody else, even with a team of attorneys. That would be a fun video because we can pull up all these. We can pull up 10 cases and read what was submitted and why they probably submitted it that way and what they thought was going to happen versus that's what the judge sees a million times. He doesn't mean anything to him. So talking about what people should do, giving some, this is why consultants me because I'll tell people what they should put in their letters.

It's the same thing they just said, but not using their kids as an excuse. If I really cared about my family, Your Honor, I never would have put myself in the situation because I took myself away from my daughter and my unborn baby, like a complete moron. She should have said that. Yeah. The judge probably would have, we thought Shelly was pregnant at sentencing. Man, the judge fucking lost it.

Said exactly what you said. You got in trouble in 2011. and here you are in 2014 and you're pregnant knowing potentially you could you could go to prison what the fuck were you thinking like i told her i said don't tell him don't tell him i didn't want her to tell him because i felt like it would be looked at like that yeah that's that that's to me that's that that just makes you even more of a selfish person yeah so as an excuse so listen so thomas back back to that thomas is still in the he's it so that thomas in the russian marshal's 30 years Thomas finds out he's got 25 years 25 years. He's got 25 years that the judge had given the 10 years he took off his wife's sentence, he gave to him. And so he didn't even know that when they told him that he runs up and starts banging on the door. He said, oh, I went up and I was like, boom, grabbing the day. Hey, I need to talk to my lawyer. I need to talk to my lawyer. So he later found out when his mom came to see him like later that day, his mom said, oh, she buried you. She blamed everything on you. She was crying. And this sentence the same day. See, look, within like an hour of her. Oh, wow. Back to back.

So anyway, yeah, so I was thought that was, that story always, I mean, it's horrible because he was such a nice guy. But it was just so hilarious. And then, of course, she got out. And he always said she was going to, he was like, well, we, you know, they communicated the. He always said she was going to get out and she was going to work with like the DEA. That's what he said? Oh, yeah. to get, she had said, I'm going to get out and I'm going to get you out.

I'm going to do a third party rule 35, work with the U.S. or work with the DAA. And basically, she lived in a trailer that was owned by his mother. And within six months of being there, she had never come to see him. She was seeing some other guy. His mother was, was going to, if it was asking him if she could evict her from the trailer. And he finally, one day, he said, yeah, you know what, just evictor. Just get rid of her.

Like, he had been banked for years. He had been thinking when she gets out, she's going to work with the DEA. She's going to do a third party rule 35. You know, and look, there may have been a moment. And it's so easy to pass judgment on what goes through people's minds. And right now, there's a lot of people going, that snitch. That snitchin bitch. Can't believe she did that.

I will tell you, man, almost everybody that you have in your immediate life that you think is your ride or die. you rock whatever mother father boyfriend girlfriend doesn't matter uh unless it's a dog or a cat i i'm almost convinced if the circumstances are right they will tell and i i don't blame them at the same time it's like unless you're in a situation where like the mafia is going to come kill your entire family for snitching or telling other situations many like i don't want to talk about jessica but she never had the ability to yeah yeah you know there's a lot of people people out there that I didn't tell anybody. There was nobody for you to tell her. Right. There was, you were like the bottom of the food chain. Nobody, like, they weren't after you.

You were just, you were a casualty of war. You were, you were free bonus points. Right. It's, it's like big hurt. You robbed the bank with, with two other guys. Those two guys, you all three of you got caught, those two guys told immediately and you're running around for the next 10 years, calling them, them snitches. Yeah. The truth is, well, I didn't snitch. You didn't have a chance. You never change to stitch. Even this guy, look, even this guy, Peter Tarantino, right? Like their CPA, he probably turned around and talked to the government and said, what if I cooperate?

Can I get immunity? Can I get a two-year deal? And their whole thing was probably to him. No. Why would we have Mark, we have Mark. Right, Mark and his wife. Braddock. We have Mark Braddock.

We have Mark Braddock. we already have Mark Braddock and we have all the evidence we don't have to give you a deal to cooperate and testify yeah and when you see these cases so often you'll see cases where like the head person gets lesser of a sentence and the person getting more of a sentence like the secretary or whatever they don't understand it's like when the government came to you and said you have anything you want to tell us and you were like nope I'm not I'm not talking whoever talks first is going to end up with with a decent sentence even in my case with the pill mill stuff that the main main guy over the whole thing the guy who was over Sean

his company got probation because months and months ahead he knew that there was an investigation and he started working with them and he's Mr. He may feel so easily he's like that guy in his mind but the reality is he's the first one to tell especially if those other people go to trial right like like the head guy can get a lot off if the guy's underneath him one he testifies against them well the head guy lou insulated himself real good he insulated himself through Sean right and Sean looked up to him like like like he was a god might still look up to him like that I'm sure Lou took care of Sean in the end because Sean could have

filleted Lou I couldn't I didn't have anything on on Lou and everyone will say here and say oh Dan you got a 5k1 but I would tell you this I really didn't know what a 5K1 was when it was offered because I didn't have to do anything for it if you look at the in my case is public record if you look at it everybody on my case got a 5K1 and I was the last person on my case to accept the plea deal. So my 5K1 just was part of taking a plea. I didn't have to go and tell where the bodies were or anything. It was just my story was what really happened. But I couldn't point my finger at say this person did this because I didn't know exactly. All I could say was, I mean, yeah, it felt it felt shady. We had people coming in

from Kentucky in Ohio to come see a doctor in Georgia, which just that never made sense to me. why couldn't they go see a doctor in their own hometown right why'd you keep working there i was like because it was fun i i didn't i wasn't thinking about it but at the end of the day almost everybody will take a 5k1 in my belief and i you see it every day yeah i i've known guys that that that got sent introductions or you know they they got they got you know they got substantial assistance just by saying here's what i did in relation to the um in relation to the uh you know the conspiracy like do you know this person no do you know this one no do you know this one i mean i know know jo and he did this and he would give me the pills you know do you've cooperated against one

person who's already cooperated against you like for instance in um in dug dodd's case i wrote a book on him in dodd's case almost every everybody across the board got got sentence reductions because they all just said look this is what i did like they all kind of agreed let's all just cooperate you know and they all how many people have you seen that took uh that went to trial or wouldn't take a plea deal. Now, they might take a plea deal with just acceptance or responsibility. I'm not telling on nobody, but I'll tell on myself. And they get, whatever, two, three points down.

How many people have you seen that have had the ability to bring other people down without the fear of losing your life and still didn't do it out of, out of honor? I have seen a few. I mean, the few guys that I've seen that have done that, you know, it's their work. like when you really look into what they could have said and they could have done it would it's like okay you could have said this but that would have been you saying hey five years ago I did a home invasion with with Joe uh Joe Smith right but Joe Smith already knows you've been arrested right just it's not going to take your call Joe Smith there's no way for you to set Joe Smith up

and they're not going to indict Joe Smith based on simply saying that right So you said, oh, I could have taken down so-and-so and so-and-so, really how? You're locked up. He knows you're locked up. You and I both know he's not going to, he's not going to have that conversation with you over the phone. He's not going to admit to all this. And even then, there's very little likelihood they're going to go out and arrest him or indict him and arrest him. But just to save face, they like to say, well, I didn't tell on nobody.

You really didn't have an opportunity. I've got a client right now who, it would be him. him, he could, he could definitely could get a 5K and serve way less time if he would, it's his son and his wife. Well, that's your son and your wife is wife. Yeah, but I see people all the time turn on their son and wives and brothers and sisters. But this, this guy, he's, he's very, he's almost kind of like the most calm individual. And he's looking at about 20 years without the plea deal.

He's just, he's just, I'm not going to get to take care of the family. And he's just so nonchalant about it. It was like, I respect it, but I was like, if you're, if you're not going to take a plea deal, we really got to reevaluate how we're going to go about your case because it kind of changes my whole, what I do, helping you take accountability for what you did is hard when you're not going to tell them about what you're not going to take accountability for what you did. And he is, though, he's, he's only, he's just not saying their parts. I think they're still, I think they're still going to get in trouble just because usually,

man with crime, the paper trails, the, there's just, it's so easy to get caught. It's so hard to commit a perfect crime these days. What do you think? What's the perfect crime? What would you, if you had to do something, without, without the chances of getting caught.

Jess is in the other room. She goes, uh-uh. Because we've had this discussion. What is it? What's the crime? No, I can't.

I mean, like, like I've, the problem, you know, like there are, right now everything is so automated that there there's there are a couple of different there's a couple of different things right now in real estate where you simply you don't have

to show up you don't have to you can do every like you literally can do everything over the computer and with a couple of phone calls and walk away with a few million dollars if you tell nobody if you tell nobody and nothing goes wrong because it's always the problem of this it's like you know how the FBI got on to me it's not that I fucked up didn't you weren't it wasn't some chick no well yes but it the way the this is when it first started is that a girl a woman that I was working with went to a closing with a driver's license that had her picture on it she signed the paperwork. She gave her ID over. They're supposed to give her the check. The woman, the title closer, looked at the driver's license and said, this isn't you. And she said, yeah, that's me.

She goes, it doesn't look like you. Because that's me. I just, it was her. It was her. Okay. She had different hair. Her hair was black in the pay, in the thing. And it was a blonde, more blonde. She had flown blonde highlights in it and stuff. But it was her. And the picture wasn't old. It was a month old, the month old picture. Because this woman mistakenly thought she, you don't look like this picture, I'm going to make some phone calls. She made some phone calls and quickly figured out that the house,

we had transferred the deed from the original owner into this fictitious person's name. Contact the original owner. Original owner said, what are you talking about? That's my tenant. I don't, she didn't own the house. What do you mean she just refinanced it? whole thing fell apart so because of a it's the fly in the ointment I could not account for this woman making a mistake he was part of your scam yeah she was part of my scam okay so how was I supposed to know that this woman was going to make a mistake and stumble on like that's my only fear of committing fraud at this is that's how it's for most people that's that it's something like that it's something stupid you can't account for that. It's the guy who just, it's the guy who's driving a car and actually stops at the stop sign

and then drives on and a cop pulls him over. Why? You didn't stop at the stop sign. I did stop at the stop sign. No, no. You didn't. And now you seem nervous. Pop the trunk. Yeah. Just like that, man. Just like that. And people think I'm not going to get caught because I'm a smart criminal. And there is no such thing. I think you're better off just saying, I'm going to get caught. I'm okay with getting caught because I'm calculating what the worst case scenario is. And as long as you've found a way to do it right and come home to, you know, something that's worth it. You know, I don't know that way. I'd be better off. You're right. If I the whole time had thought I'm going to get caught, prepare for it, I would have walked out with a couple million dollars. Did you really not

think you're ever going to get caught? Bro, you have no I. You don't understand the amount of error that I have been saddled with. I can tell you right now I was 100% positive. I would never be caught. That's how arrogant I was. And you only see, you look at me now and you think I'm arrogant. This is a fraction of myself.

This is a mere shadow of the... I don't think you're arrogant. I used to think that you were putting on a front or pretending to be like the cool guy. I'm Matt Cox. but you really kind of you're actually pretty you're a good dude you did you're one of the better people I've met through this journey of prison consultants whatever prison related you're one of the better people that I've met because you've always stayed fast I appreciate that I've still

once again I got Jess in the background I go mm-hmm she knows I'm right or she wouldn't be there I know I here exactly yeah every once in a while I'll say something that I don't even think about and she'll look at me and she'll just smile and I go what she'll go no that's those are the kinds of things that you say I posted our video that we did the one that you and I did with hunter more you sent it to me and I reposted it oh okay I don't know if you if you watched but when you start talking about the T-Rex I put a little surprise in there for you on that section you hear I see she's laughing so let's watch it go watch it just it's towards the end when that starts talking about fucking T-Rexes and little arms and gym stuff

So my question to you is, so let's go back to the, the, the, uh, Chrisley's. So one, you know, obviously there's still, now they're trying to figure out at the loss, you know, huh? They're trying to figure out what, the loss. Well, yeah, they're trying to figure out the loss, but, but other than that, and they know basically what it's going to be around 20 million and change. Right. The IRS. They're saying like, they're saying probably 30 million, 25 to 30 million. But, uh, what I'm, what I'm wondering about is this.

this um what is it going to be like for you have you have you seen todd chrisley yeah i mean from what i saw online and stuff yeah what do you mean what's gonna be like he's going out of feds right he's going to feds he's going to he's going to end up it oh he's going to a low she's going to a medium why is he going to a low has he been designated i he just got sentenced like no wait somebody um i i'm sorry i just saw i when was he sentenced week not long ago wasn't it like within the last week no no weeks ago weeks ago oh maybe a month or so ago i think a month or so ago let's what was it or was it just weeks a week or so ago i think it's pretty recent i'm gonna look them up real quick uh bop so anyway i forget who it was exactly that

said it but somebody had mentioned that she was going to a medium and he's going to a camp or to a low to a low or a camp i think she's going to a medium do they got priors i don't know and she and he's going to a camp i think she got hit she she lied to the grand jury and she got i think they both got hit with obstruction now so they were sentenced on what i guess only a couple days ago right yeah because he's not even in uh i just looked him up he's not even in the bop system yet so there's no way he's already been designated um i mean if he's got a lot of priors and stuff and his is his sentence there's no way his priors were that much because his sentence he had any priors yeah it's i doubt he's going to go to a uh i mean he could go to a low which he might be

better off people are afraid of lows they they like I got a client right now he's going to a low it's because of medical reasons and he's freaking out and I told them I said don't don't use all this medical stuff thinking it's going to get you a better outcome people think their medical is going to get them like not go to prison and all it does is it sends you to a medical facility which is usually a low security for men and it's it's much worse than a regular prison because there's nothing to do you're in there with like crazy sick people um but his situation unless he's got some like some real risk factors if they think he's a flight risk

maybe the obstruction maybe they feel like he's not camp eligible because he's going to but he also got 12 years oh yes yes you're right anything over 10 yep for guys goes sends you to a low 10 minus your good time so he's got

what a year or so he should be able to transfer to a camp that's what it is I forgot he had 12 years right 120 months minus your good time if that still is over 10 or whatever your months are minus good time if that's still over 120 you'll go to a low security until you trip that wire of 10 years and then you got to be there at least I think 12 to 18 months before they'll consider transferring you which is pretty much everywhere you go right but why would she go to a medium

I don't know where you're getting that from I don't I don't know for somebody to say that. I don't know how they're coming up with that calculation. Unless, were you watching a prison consultant talk about this? I was watching these. I think I watched, it was another attorney, some attorney who is that lady you sent me? No, it wasn't her. It was another attorney. Adult children, 10 year old grandma. Oh, that this is all the reasons that they're trying to tell them that they're not, they shouldn't go.

Sentence was all the, all the reasons why she shouldn't go to prison? Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you, we need to do a video. on that because that's what's beneficial to people is to understand that nobody cares about your fucking sob stories. Oh, and not just that. You have to think, too, imagine the U.S. attorney ended up getting

in front of the, got in front of the judge and showed all the videos of them talking about buying this and how they just pissed away all this money. Julie, right? That's her name? Yes. So you can imagine you've got, you're standing there, you're

on film talking about blowing all this money, buying these expensive cars, And it's like, oh, my God. So you were ripping off the bank so that you could blow a bunch of money on. Yeah. So anyway, somebody had said he was going to a low. She was going to a medium. And I didn't understand why she would be like the low I get.

He's doing 12 years. But why would she be going to a medium? I was wondering if you knew. I'm looking now to see where you would have gotten that from. Yeah. I understand me at this point. But Chris Lee. Keep us going, Matt.

Keep talking. You can carry it without me, can't you for a second? Yeah, I can. I can't find it. Anyway, so I was going to say, like, what do you think? It says camp environment. Camp environment. What does it mean anything?

Not for her. I mean, for her, yes, not for him, though. Reality TV stars Todd and Julie Crisley will serve majority of prison sentences in camp environment, expert says. So another thing that came up, and I know the answer to this, I'm just wondering you, is that they're allowed, they're being allowed to self-surrender. So obviously, and you get a three-point reduction on your custody level for self-surrendering. Right.

So obviously, I remember I was talking to Jess about that. And she was like, God, why do they get to self-surrender? Oh, Jess, right. Yeah. Why do they get to self-surrender? And of course, you know. So they're not bad as a criminal as Jess was. Right.

the other thing the other thing is it's like they can't like even if they wanted to run they couldn't run why they're too well known they're they would be caught so quickly i don't know who the fuck they were oh and it would be everywhere it's not like some low level guy who nobody's ever going to hear from or ever has her he could take off and not show up they're just going to put out a warrant for his arrest and he'll get picked up in three years it's crazy the crime for for going on the run is not that serious. No, it's not. Neither is escape. Right. Escaping from a, from like a camp or something.

Right. It's almost nothing. When you, and the day they're supposed to, whatever their self-surrender date is, if they don't go in that day, it's only a sconding until they think they've passed 36 hours or, or three or four days,

then it becomes an issue. I've seen people chicken out and not turn themselves in, and then turn themselves in a couple days later. And there's zero penalty. to. They still went to a camp. Listen, I knew guys that had walked away from the camp. Yeah. And then, no, no, then got picked up like 18 months later.

And they got, they basically gave him a shot, took away game time. I got a guy you should, uh, there's my daughter calling me for my birthday. Aw. You just remembered at 4.50. Hold on. Let's answer this. Hi, Caitlin. Hello. So you call me to say happy birthday at 5 o'clock?

Yes. Well, you're live with me on YouTube, so thank you very much. Oh, hey. All right. Well, I love you. I got to go. Say hi, Matt. Oh, okay.

Cool. Hi, Matt. Hey. All right. I'll call you back when I leave here, babe. Love you. Thank you. Bye.

Okay. Bye. She's a tattoo artist. She's 22, so I'm just happy she called me. She's a tattoo artist. that's yeah yeah she's kidding she's living on her own in new york city making five 10 grand a month tattooing so god bless her um yeah so we're worried with these people these uh escaping and stuff you know so so what what what i was going to say what do you think it's going to be like for

todd in and so here here's one of the things that that i you know people were talking about is that you know for a a gay guy a flamboyant gay 50 some odd year old man in federal prison like how hard is it going to be for him zero all right zero hard very hard but but not a bad way what about rape what about the rape stand oh he's going to a low i feel like you're talking with me right now i am because i'm saying i'm like wait a minute we're at a low i can see i can see people you know oh my god he's going to get raped he's going to get what's coming to him. He's,

wait to Bubba gets a hold of him. Nope. He's going to go to a low. He's going to meet up with

some like-minded individuals. He's going to be walking the track. He's going to get a boyfriend. He's going to

be holding the hands and swap and spit with some guy within. He might not because he hasn't openly

admitted to this point, right? No, but once he's in prison. Yeah, but you've got to admit, he's probably

got a publicist still. Yeah. And a public's probably like, look, everyone's going to try to get info from you because I had a famous individual go in

and one of the big things that when I spoke to his publicist and his attorney, they were very, very, very, they couldn't have said it more clear. Anything you guys discuss or email, if it's going to be anything about what his life is like in prison, you have to do it through an attorney-privileged phone call

because if anybody records this or gets a window, of this people start like everybody that's in there is talking to a reporter because oh what's going on with this guy let's talk about it um so this guy if you were to go out and do something like that if you were to be that dumb and get his rocks off uh it's going to get exposed and then he's going to come out and it's okay maybe he's okay with that but if he doesn't want people to know i don't think he's going to i don't think he's going to uh do anything in there on that short of a sentence seven i mean 12 years he's kidding he might he who knows man maybe he's not gay that maybe you're just assuming because everybody's not as macho as you only because his ex-lover said he was gay

that's right yeah maybe he wasn't gay maybe it was only a year of experimentation he had an affair with the man you said right guy that the when they got immunity yeah mark bretick said they had a year long homosexual relationship and he's openly gay or he just goes both ways too i you know i didn't i haven't spoken with mark but yeah he's not going to have any problems with with getting raped or assaulted um if there is any gay activity in there with him it's going to be all volunteer. He's going to walk the yard just fine. He'll be there a little bit and he'll be under 10 years and he'll get transferred over to a camp. Very quickly. Very quickly. If he was smart, he's got information in his pre-sentence report that can align him with like Ardap and things like

that. Twelve years could turn into five, six years very easily. I'm sorry, less. It could turn into half that probably, yeah, four or five years he could be out. You know so funny. Well, like when I got sentence like that wasn't my lawyer was like you're going to do 23 years don't she's like people are going to is that 85% that was 85% 87% okay oh because yeah good time used to calculate different right and and she was like people are going to tell you they're bringing back parole she's they're not people are going to tell you like she like crushed any hope to like your only hope is a sentence reduction for a third part for for a rule 35 like that's your only hope but that's like what's my sentence reduction for putting a badge on like listen what don't laugh fucking gangster um

over here um so yeah listen kid me ready to go let's do this but again that's what makes this it's like i can't rely on anybody else that's i figured that out everybody everybody wants to talk about tattletails and snitches and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the only difference between you and probably 99.9% of everybody else, aside from your height, is... Like guys are mean. Everything that you have done to get your sentence reduced is the same thing everybody else does or would do.

They just won't admit it. That's the only difference. Admitting out of 5K1, I still to this day, there's somebody that if you Google Ardap Dan there's some fucking guy out there that did this full on report about me is like the audit police or something

because I said something bad about him in a video and he created the whole website with like my information on there and 5K1 and then people commented like yeah this isn't fucking new news idiot he talks about it in his videos why you should take a 5K1

you know how much of a kick I get when people bad mouth me like I used to be thin skin like I laugh about it and laugh and it it just it tickles me to death tickles me to death when people talk shit well because the only people that that the jessica's and and there's a guy I want you to interview his name is Brian Bruton okay Brian Bruton was in a Florida state prison for manslaughter he made a relationship with a female guard convinced the guard they were in love she was bringing them computers she was

bringing him guards clothes he escaped with another inmate they got away they ended up getting caught after they escaped but it was like this whole fucking thing and it's it's really like wow if you google it and he's a great storyteller um but he'd be great for your channel oh i got it right i got a i got a yeah i got an interview he might be out there in somewhere he's either california or tampa he talks about both but uh i'll i'll give him your i'll give you his number and vice versa bryan bruton he's got a channel does he what kind of how many subscribers he was doing really well, then he kind of disappeared. He's got like 15,000, 15,000, 20,000 subscribers. If you Google Brian Bruton bounce back, he changed the name of his channel recently to something else,

but he does all kinds of stuff. But he's got, he's got some good prison stories. He's a good, he's like Jessica Kent, but in my opinion, a little more like authentic. Right. I have nothing against Jessica Kent, by the way. I don't think she's not authentic. I just you know you you sound like you're you're you're scared of her my feeling no you know what it is is is I would love to do videos with her because I think her stories she's got an amazing story of overcoming drugs and things like like that lifestyle not everybody gets out of that lifestyle and she did yes um and and when she originally started doing her content talking and stuff I was doing videos with with Brian and she would send me messages and because she had a real small channel

Dan, can we do some interviews together? We were supposed to do a bunch of stuff. And then she did that one interview with that lady and blew up. And it was all of a sudden like, well, let me check with my secretary. It just got a little ridiculous. He's got a little over, almost 21, almost 21,000 subscribers, 96 videos. Yeah. And if you look at his video release dates, you'll see like until recently there's been

none released. And the ones that were being released. He did. No, he's six days, 12 days. No, no, no. Now, I'm saying recently he's got some released. But if you keep looking there, you'll see there was like a year with no videos. Oh, okay. Really? Cheesh.

You know, sometimes it gets overwhelming. And if you don't see like a huge, if you don't see a, sometimes you get frustrated. Badger or something? You ever seen that, dude? No. O.G. Badger, prison dude. He disappeared off the internet. It couldn't take the hate mail anymore.

Really? Yeah, a lot of people, man. Because they, it's almost like these weird clicks out there. There's some weird prison channels out there, Matt, that are like, it's, mine's, yours is distinct. I feel like mine is distinct. But then you'll see some of these other ones, like 23 and 1. It's almost like prison channel gangland. It's like fake gangsters on a keyboard, but they're all like shedding hate on each other.

And it's, but none of it's just like virtual battles on keyboards. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not. I don't know. I mean, I get a bunch of, in a very real way, I think part of the reason, like, maybe my channel hasn't blown up the way I, I feel like it should is because I have been so honest about, like, cooperating. Like, because I have such a different, if I were to sit here and just talk about prison fights and, you know, that kind of stuff, well, first of all, it wouldn't be authentic. I feel like it wouldn't be authentic. I believe all those prison guys that have the prison channels that talks about all that stuff.

I'm not going to say none of it's fake, but I, no one's got that much action going on. in prison unless you're like you know in a supermax somewhere aside from that you have to make some of that stuff up and at least with your stuff your your growth will continue because it's it's based on a ground floor and foundations you're you're building your business the right way you're not doing it with a bunch of initially how do you maintain something that's not completely authentic I don't know eventually you're going to crash from burn and disappear yeah you can't it's kind of like these guys are like, you know, you should keep telling your, your, your stories. It's like, yeah, but my stories will run out.

Like, I need to interview other people. Right. I need to continue to do what I'm doing because ultimately my channel will become more just interviewing other guys because my stories, although I have a bunch of stuff, probably have another year's worth of me telling my stories, maybe even more of just all the different, but those, a lot of those are just like how I interviewed this guy in prison and wrote his story and what that transpired. Because those are kind of stories that I'm interwoven in, and those can drag out.

But eventually that will tape off. And it ends up being, you end up being Joe Rogan in a way. You're just interviewing people. Yeah, which is where we all want to be. And everybody wants to tell us, you, me, what we should do. Oh, you should do this. You should do that. I'm not going to say they're wrong, but I can't do everything.

I have to pick a direction and go with it. I'm already doing R-Dap-Dan federal prison time. and then I've got wise media group where we've got the studio and renting out the studio space and doing some stuff with that. If I were to spread myself any thinner than this and try to jump on every good idea somebody has, I don't think anything would ever get done. That's what I was trying to do with the, I was trying to do the inside the darkness, right? But you know how hard it is to put up a new video every single week?

Oh, are you not doing that anymore? No, I'm doing it when they come in. as people come in, but they have to come in in person. If you don't come in in person, I can't put you on the stool and put to do the whole thing. I can't do it. So, you know,

so now it's like basically if I get somebody that comes into the studio, I do both the interviews and then I put it up, but I just, I can't maintain that a different one every single week. You just can't. Because you also don't want it to be forced. You don't want, I've had people because those of you that don't know,

I also started another channel after I saw Matt. So I started it because it was such an empowering experience going to Matt's studio and telling my story on his other channel. Maybe Matt will send a link to that. This wasn't my most proud moment. I wasn't in my, it was so dear. I wasn't, I was caught off guard. Matt didn't tell me that I was going to be sitting in a room talking to myself. So I was not prepared for that part of it.

But once I agreed to do it and I sat there, oh my God, it was the most therapeutic thing that I've experienced. I've told my story a million times. So I was like, man, I got it. I want to do this. So I created a part of my studio doing the same thing. We called it perfectly broken. But I've had people come in and sit there on the stool and they start telling their story and I'm listening to them.

And I can tell that they're holding back. And I'll hear them talking about, oh, I was adopted. I'm like, talk about that. Well, I don't want to, I'm not ready to talk about that yet. And it's like, then you're not ready to do this yet because that's the whole point of this is to be extremely vulnerable to give others the ability to hear that you went through something, overcame it, and your life isn't destroyed. so other people can see that they're not alone.

So yeah, you don't want to do it with everybody because then everybody's ready to share. Yeah. That makes sense? Yeah, it does. And I've had a couple of guys who have gone. They've gone up there. They've sat down.

I gave them the instructions, walked out, closed the door, and they've come down in 10 minutes. And I'm like, no, no, no, that's not, no, listen, I bring them back up, sit them down, talk to them again, have them start over again, have them do it again. And they come down in 15 minutes. And it's like, okay, you know what? We're done.

Like, you don't really want to do this. And, you know, I've had guys that come down in 10 minutes. They're like, yeah, I'm just not interested in doing it, bro. I just, and it's like, yeah, you're right. You're not. And did you let them leave? Or did you get back up there and I want you to re-record? So one guy tried to go back up and kind of force it.

And it was definitely forced. He didn't want to do it. And then I had another guy where he came down. And I could tell after interviewing him, he was not going to open. up no matter what just wasn't going to do it was it going to do it and i'm like i can't i can't force you to do it like i it doesn't that's the great thing about getting those guys in that room and they especially after you've interviewed them they kind of have a good feel for their story and then the things that they've forgotten about or that they didn't want to say while looking me in the face

they'll say when they're by themselves and that's the better interview when they'll say things right because you're not in the room right because they're not worried about looking you in the face and saying that they were scared or that they i've had people go both ways on that where without without me being in the room they they just like they weren't taught they they stopped they almost just you'd hear them going oh man i forgot about this i don't know what to say this is really hard but we like yell that into the other room so i got to go sit there and but it's not it's not as good i've had a couple people do it without me being in the room and man it was just once they have already lost themselves sure there's a lot of rambles

but you can fix that in editing but man this it just became so much more like a personal and and intense yeah i was just going to say but keep my in mind i typically have interviewed them already so they kind of know what the story is by the time they're done with my interview yeah i started changing it to do the same because i thought it would be better to do the other way around let them tell their story first and then i do the interview with them where we talk about what they talked about but when they do their interview with me first, like to sit down like what we're doing right now, it is easier for them to get in there and talk.

Happy birthday. To me. So, all right. So Todd and Julie Christley. Yeah. They got a light sentence for what they did. Yeah. We got to look up and see like what the actual guidelines were once they got sentenced.

Because if they were, what 37, I mean, man, this guy should be jumping for joy. But again, how much time are they really going to serve? Are they going to be begging for compassionate release? They're going to go to camps, low security prisons. There's not going to be any violence. There's not going to be any threats on their life. The most dangerous part of everything,

the hardest part about everything they've gone through so far is what they're going through right now. Prison experience is going to be overwhelmingly positive if they choose to be positive with it. hopefully they prepared the right way and they've got solid pre-sentence reports where things like R-DAP and additional halfway house time and they should both be qualifying for first step act earn time credits you know that you're familiar with that I'm sure right yeah I am now what that wasn't a thing when I was no that's part of the first step act yeah and you can only earn those uh 15 days for

every 30 days of programming you can only earn that once you get to 18 months or less on your sentence you no longer get those credits so people that are getting like 18 24 months sentences they get nothing for a first step act so you know i've talked to guys that the bop is trying to not give them their earned credits if they turn down art app really yeah yeah my buddy pete um yeah everybody call me we'll fix it real quick yeah they they they told him you you turn down art app and he said well i turned down art app because i went for the interview and i said i have 10 years left. And they said, yeah, yeah, you're right. And so they, he was, but because they can't say that they recommended, you don't take it now. It's either you accept it or you denied it. So they

said, he denied it. And then when they calculated his whole thing, they said, well, the problem is, you denied ARDAP. So we're not giving you credits. So he's trying to fix it right now because they're now going back and saying, no, no, we told him not to, but we can't put that in the system. I would have that guy reach out to me because it's either something you're not being told there's something he's not understanding or there's a whole other thing at play because RDAP is a volunteer program. They cannot, there is no consequence other than not getting because in RDAP you can double dip. You get your sentence reduction, your six, nine or 12 months off of your sentence in addition to your first step act credits. So he could get more

time for that. But what he's telling you almost all the time it's user error. There's something that he's reading wrong or not understanding because they that's not that's not a case that doesn't happen and if he's being told that we could fix that almost immediately well i will i will mention it he's listen he's a pretty sharp guy he's he's on it right now really what they were telling him was this they said just go apply for ardap and when they accept you it'll all kick in and you'll walk you'll be sent to a halfway house how much time do you have oh he he has a 34 year sentence but be with the earned time credit or he's he gets like almost two years knocked off his sentence and he's got 10 years left right now no he's got less than 10 years he's got like five years

but with the two no not five years I'm sorry he's got like three years but with the two year he almost immediately goes into a halfway house so what are you talking about so he denied Ardap 10 years ago or seven years ago well like yeah like seven years ago okay and the anybody that would want to take Ardap at that with 10 years they're not thinking because I get why you want to take it. You want to just get that year out of the way and get it done. But once you get relief, because after you finish RDAP, you still got, you know, several years left.

And you go back into a regular unit. You can violate your ADAP with something else happening a year and a half, two years later. You get in a fight and that's going to take away your ARDAP. And the whole year is gone. That's why you typically don't want to take it until the tail end of your sentence. So you can finish ARDAP and go home. Which was his argument. Right.

He should, is he a friend of yours? Yeah. I'll give him the Matt Cox discount. All right. Paying double, fool. Hold up. No, I asked him that. He didn't, he doesn't know.

Oh, Jess, maybe if you paid attention. He said, Jess, if you paid attention. Oh, yeah, she went upstairs. That's the guy that's in 12 years, right? Huh? He's not. He got 12 years. You got under 10.

It's over 10 years, so he's going to a low. Very, but he'll be out right away. He'll go to a camp. probably be there six months and you know the good time probably going to wish that he was still at the low when they send him to the camp yeah she's saying i don't understand because we heard the same thing of what that she was going to a medium and she was like why would she go to a medium who yes jess was asking because we where do we hear that on one of the things we were listening to one of the one of the one of the is is all of these reporters and stuff they read something and

they're like they're going to go to a low and they think they're going to think a low is a camp or they're going to be in a medium security prison where they think that's a camp you know the just just just said first of all she said you could send her to a women's camp she can handle it she goes he couldn't handle a man's a men's medium he could not and i tell you right now it was in the medium for three years listen he ain't going to do well no he's going to be somebody he's going to need a ward daddy at the medium he can probably afford a ward daddy look if jared from subway can't have afford a war daddy. I'm sure this guy can.

I mean, what? Oh, so he, she goes, if it, yeah, if the war daddy costs $17,000 or less, guys never had more than $17,000 in his bank count. Man, you can get a ward daddy for two macros a week. Listen, he can get, listen, he can get a ward daddy. You don't need to pay nothing.

With all that, I cut your hair and take care of you for two macros a week. With all that money, sitting on. No reason for you to go without. Baby, baby. Thank you so much for letting me hang out with you a little bit, Matt. Anybody, if you get a chance, check out my channel to Ardap Dan, federal prison time consulting. If you're facing a potential prison sentence or you're indicted or you're under investigation, you're not sure what you should be doing. Matt will drop a link. There's a free consultation. And at the worst case scenario, we can at least leave you

with some information that you can use without paying a dime. So thanks, Ardap Dan. bro that should be your that should be that's the commercial i got some i just want the website to be done so you can send people to the right place but uh i got some stuff for you yeah hey i appreciate you guys watching the video i hope you'll like the interview uh about the the chrisley's and their sentence uh i thought we were going to figure out why a couple of things we didn't it's fine um i appreciate it either way if you like the video do me a favor hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified a video just like this. Also, leave me a comment. I try and respond to almost all the comments. I read, I probably read 95% of the comments, to be honest. And I respond to as many

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