Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Fraudsters Confront Their Victims (Hilarious Stories)

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

Matt and Zack tell first hand account of confronting victims of their scams. Zacks Channel https://www.youtube.com/@BlackZack365 Follow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrimeDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

I knew a guy who was stealing credit card information and he ended up getting a U.S. attorney's information. This is all a complete setup. I panic. Jump up, grab my keys, come out of my apartment, and four police cars come darting in. While I'm sitting there, they're like, whoop, whoop, there are many, many, many days I think about him and just, I don't even know how I feel. Sometimes I'm angry. Sometimes I'm kind of like, that's actually pretty clever. I'm kind of envious. I go through a range of emotions dealing with. All right. So what are we doing? Victims. They're the worst. That needs to be the, that needs to be

the victims. They're the worst. The testifying, you know, they're pointing you out in court. These unruly victims. Yes. That's right. So the reason I thought of this is because, because I've, about, I don't want to call them unruly victims. I call them, I want to call them aggressive, but maybe I'd call them assertive. Assertive. Assertive.

Assertive. So, because in my, in my early days, I had, I had a couple of them because at one point, me and a guy named James, we had taken, um, this I had taken this I think it's couples bank statement it is funny to me because James got arrested and he was going to a probable cause hearing now this is in Georgia in Fulton County Georgia in Fulton County Georgia if the victim doesn't show up to the probable cause hearing the charges actually get thrown out like like justice on certain state levels are like I'm like they're so different it's unbelievable

So when they hold you in jail for 10 days, if you can't bond out, they hold a probable cause hearing to bound it over for trial. And it's required that the victim show up. So the people whose bank statement we had used or we tried to write a check on their account, they show up for the hearing. So I wasn't in jail, but I showed up at the probable cause hearing because I wanted to try to raise the money to bond them out. I'm thinking maybe they'll lower his bond, which is what I taught this lawyer about doing. So the people showed up, right? And he got into a staring contest with him. Like, he's just looking at him, right?

And then he starts clanging his handcuffs together. Like, what was that? From what? That's what I'm saying? I'm like, what are you doing? You're trying to intimidate these people? Like, when he gets out, he's like, I was trying to scare him. You know what I'm saying?

Why you wanted them to think you were mentally... Yeah, like when I get out of here. He thinks this means when I get out of here, you know what I'm saying? It's just the insanity of it. But I had one victim that I would label as aggressive because he... I think he went a step... Wait, what happened with James' people? What do they do?

They testified and were like... Oh, no, they came. and they basically really didn't know who all they know was the bank because he got caught in the bank he actually went into a bank to cash a check on someone else's account and they were just showing up to basically say they didn't give him permission to do that oh you know and i don't know why he was showing out for them i mean you know he was he was a jokester you know he used to you know he always made crack joke that he thought it was funny like click click you know because he's because when he stared at him he's kind of like what was Was that supposed to be intimidating? Yeah, he slouch over and... It wasn't like, it wasn't like menacing. No? I'm like, what is he doing?

I'm sitting there like, what are you doing, bro? You're not making this any better. But he did kind of wig him out because the woman was like tapping her, like her husband. I was like, oh, what, what, what. But, all right, so what, what had happened to me is, I had credit, so let me just explain the whole situation. You can kind of get an idea of how far this guy went. So there was, oh, I'm going to see if I can think of the,

there was a mail order company. It wasn't Lans End. Back in the 90s, when you order things out of a catalog, they actually give you an account number. If you don't have an account, you can't just openly order out of this catalog. I'm going to think it was a catalog. familiar like U-Line, where you could order like electronics and a lot of different things. Sharper image?

Huh? Sharper image? No. Sharper image. Bro. Sharper image is like 2014 beginning. No, was it? Sharper images was in the 20s.

This is in the 90s. No way. I remember I used to go when I was in a college to Sharper Image. It's going to hit me the name of this. catalog it's going to hit me because lands in was one you can't order from land and i already told you about my obsession with lands in i believe you okay but you can't order from this catalog north face huh north face no okay i don't i don't want to do this anymore all right you can't order from this catalog unless you have an account all right so this is in the day when i was

taking mail out of other people's mailboxes. Yeah, horrific. But I had a catch. I had a group of credit card numbers that I could use. So when I went to this, this is why this blows my mind. So when I went to this guy's mailbox, he actually had one of those catalogs

and an account number on the credit catalog. So I'm like, yes, I'm just going to use his account and order some things. That's all I did. I never used his credit card. I used this account to order a couple of electronics that I got delivered. And so this was at a point where I had just gotten out of jail

and I was trying to get my own apartment. And so I was staying with another criminal in his empty apartment. Right. But he, believe it or not, man, I met this guy at, like, I started a temporary service job. And at that job, I'm working at a little call center. And I met this guy at the call center. And I was telling him that I really didn't have anywhere to stay.

I was going to probably stay at a hotel, which I was going to book with the illegal credit cards. And he's like, bro, I just moved into my spot, man. You know, he goes, you don't mind sleeping a living room on the floor. I don't have any furniture. You can stay with me. I'm like, OK, cool. So I stayed with him.

And I ended up giving him some money to stay. And I told him, look, I'm only going to be here about three weeks. Let me get set up. This is a long time ago, man. Right. Because what happened was, because I'll never forget this, I ordered a cell phone to be, like, so while I'm staying at his house, I thought this would be the perfect opportunity for me to order things, have it delivered to his house, and then just take them with me to my house. You know, that just puts me in the complete clear and puts him completely on the radar. You know, and we sat up talking about scams.

All right. So we stayed up. We were talking about different scams and everything. So I ordered a couple of things to come to his house. That's what it is. Because when I ordered the cell phone, the guy who's I got the catalog from, we're going to call him R, Mr. R. Mr. R, who I got the catalog from, I actually ordered a Sprint cell phone in his name. Had it delivered to my man's house that I was staying with. Right. Now, these are all conveniences that happen in my benefit, which I think of. And this becomes important later. So the cell phone gets delivered and I'm not home. I'm at work because him and I had different shifts at this call center. So when I get home, he comes out and he's like, hey, your cell phone came in and I plugged it in to get it charged. This is when they charge you per minute for the cell phone. He said, I hope you don't mind, but I don't have a phone. So I I used it to call my mom, my dad, and my sister that were in another state. I said, absolutely. The more you can connect yourself to that phone, the better. That's exactly. That was, that, I'm not calling anybody I know. That was, well, I did, but I didn't call my family.

But I'm like, that's exactly what I thought. I'm like, perfect. Not a problem, bro. Help yourself. So I moved out. I got my own place, like three weeks later, like I said, and I moved out. So apparently what happened is, I don't know, this guy, Mr. R, got wind that I had done this, and there was this huge investigation, and they were looking for me.

Now, the bad part about for me is I was on probation. I was living in, this was Cobb County, Georgia. I was living in Cobb County, and I was on probation. The only thing I did was smart is I told my probation officer what complex I lived in, but I didn't tell her what my apartment number was because I told her, I said, look, I just got an apartment in this place. I don't know what place it is, but once I get the apartment number, I'll call and tell you. I just never had the intention of calling her. So I moved into this apartment. She doesn't know the apartment number. Long story short, Mr. R calls the police. The police are looking for me. They want to catch up with me. It's kind of a dirty detective is what I call him because he's just unscrupulous. His deal is I'm going to arrest you and search the area around where you're arrested, find a couple pieces of evidence, twist your arm and you're going to end up pleading guilty. You're on probation anyway. You lose. That's his whole deal. So one day I'm at home. I come home from work. I step into the house and I lay down to take a nap.

right I'm dead asleep I'm awaking out of my sleep by my phone ringing so when I answer the phone right I'm like hello they go hey did you dial 9-1-1 I said no they're like oh you didn't oh that's our mistake I'm sorry about that can I have your apartment number just for my record that's exactly what I didn't say like so I'm so sleepy it like because I I got to explain this the way it happened to me I'm like, yeah, but I don't give him my apartment number. I switch it around. So I'm like in 10A, and I tell him I'm in 1A or something.

I switch my apartment around. I'll give him the right number. And then I hang up. He goes, okay, thank you. And then I hang up the phone, right? And then I try to go back to sleep, and then I lay there, and I go, wait a minute. Like, I didn't even touch the phone. Why would they think I doubt no one?

Right. The reality of it's coming to me. Like, this is all a complete setup. So I panic. I get up, jump up, grab my keys, come out of my apartment, go to my car, get ready to pull out of the apartment complex, and four police cars come darting in. While I'm sitting there, they're like, whoop, whoop, whoop, who. I'm like, holy crap.

I pull around the corner of the apartment complex, and, And I'm so terrified, Matt. I'm terrified. I'm dumped down in the car. Scared it. The police are walking around everywhere looking for me. Yeah. Did you get out the apartment complex, though?

Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. Like, but I'm terrified. I'm terrified. The fact that I didn't give my probation off all the information is what kind of like saved me because they didn't know what they were looking for or where my apartment was. They eventually found my. my apartment because I was still talking to James. I had bonded James out. And James stayed at my

apartment while I was staying in hotels. And the police came by. He said three times looking for me. Right. And he said it was a detective. Detectives knocking on the door or whatever. So anyway, at that point in time, I'm like, okay, I'm leaving. So I end up, I just move out of Georgia and I head west to Colorado. I just, I just bolt. It's one of those times where I just left. I'm like, I don't have any ties here. I'm out of here. Like, I'm not going back to jail. I just got out of jail anyway when I leave.

Long story short, this is one part of my life where I got extradited back, which is a story I'm going to tell on YouTube one day about that adventure. Being extradited across the country. But I get extradited back to stand trial for ordering this cell phone in this other person's name. Here's where the aggressive victim comes. I'm on the run for eight months, seven, eight months. I get picked up and I get sit back and I'm going to a probation hearing. So I've got a new charge of identity theft and I'm also going to a probation hearing.

I had a crap attorney, right? And the dirty cop was there and he was there with another guy. This is kind of a deep story and I could lose it. and trying to tell everything. But when I chose to leave, I was driving, I was doing vending machine. I was filling up vending machines, and I had a gas card from my boss. And when I decided to leave, I just took the gas card. I went to work one day, did my job, turned everything in, but I kept the gas card

because I'm like, okay, I'm going to take the road and I'm going to Colorado. So I just hopped on the road. And the gas card got me like, yeah, I'm garbage. I'm garbage. I know. But I don't, you know, what kills, you always do this. It's like, it's like I've got, I had about $20,000. So I used a stolen gas card. You had $20,000. It would have cost you a couple hundred bucks to get you across the entire country. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus,

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You're like mailing the car credit. cards to your house. It's like, or, or I'm using a stolen credit card to buy my hotel room. And in my hotel room, by the way, is all of my counterfeiting equipment for my IDs. What are you doing? And, and, and yes, I had half a million dollars in the bank. It may be paid for the hotel room with your own money. Why would I do that? That's crazy. Insane. Insane. So, yeah, Yes. The reason I bring him up is because when I get to the hearing, it's my old boss. It's Mr. R. And it's a detective. Did you say? Yes. Like, hi. I'm looking like, oh, man. Hey, Jimmy. Hey, listen, the whole, I have this absolute defeatist attitude about the whole thing. But like, what I remember is that my roommate, my roommate. So when I found out that all of the.

this was about the phone, right? And, like, he was lying saying I used his credit cards. So I asked my lawyer, I said, well, has he produced the bills for the credit, or which credit card that I used, the master card or visa? And he didn't know. The victim did not know. So the victim took the stand and was actually, like, drumming up extra things. Like, he's like, this guy, he goes, he used my credit card and ordered a computer. I'm like, no, I didn't. Ordered a couple of fishing rods. Like, they're in my garage right now.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean, like in my mind, I'm sitting there going, are you, you know, to be in a hearing and say, to see the victim. Lying? Yeah, lying. Understand. You know, I'm kind of like, um, okay.

No. but I don't I don't interrupt I just as he's lying you know my mind is morbid as it is going hey ask him this because I know he can't answer it like every I gave questions to my attorney which seemed logical but he couldn't answer it so when he's saying hey he used my card to order this this and this I say ask him was it a visa or a master card that I used and they asked him and he's like I don't remember remember which one it was. Well, how could you not remember what car I use it was yours? You know what I'm saying? So, like, he got caught in so many lies. But the, the biggest lie was everything got shipped to, I think the guy's name was Jeff. Everything was shipped to Jeff's house. So I'm telling

my lawyer, I never lived there, right? So their argument was, but I did, like, Mr. Allen did live there. You know, the cop goes, he wasn't on the lease. Right? And about, like, I got out of jail. I was only out of jail like a week and a total of three weeks in Georgia. So it's like,

when is it you think I lived there? Like, when did how do you say that? But the whole deal was I lived there and that's where they started losing. So as that argument started losing, Mr. R comes up. And when he gets to understand,

and he decides to say that one day when all this stuff was happening and he found out where everything was getting delivered to he decided to hop in his car and drive over to the address to kind of see what was going on and when he drove over to the address as he's pulling through the apartment complex looking at the apartment numbers he's driving and looking and as he he looks back on the road, he happens to see me walk in front of his car. Me and another guy walked in front of his car, walk right past his car, upstairs, and went into the apartment, which I was supposed to live. How do you know that didn't happen?

Did you not let, because you live there? So I lived there three weeks. Oh, but you were gone by that point. bro so what if i said i don't know if that happened what do you do it then all right so the reason i say that i don't know first of all what he's describing never happened like i i never walked with somebody else okay right and when i parked at the place i always part where i never had to cross like i didn't park on the opposite side where i had to walk across i always parked on the side or around. So what he was describing didn't happen. But it doesn't mean that he didn't

pull in there one day and I'm walking around. You know what I'm saying? If he caught me in that three week window, like if he drove over there in that three week window, it's a possibility he might have seen me, you know, but I doubt if like he's seen me walk into the department. Like how perfect of timing is that? How perfect of timing is that? Yeah, I was going to say what you should have asked was like, what date was this? And then he said, oh, it was on a, it was on the 11th and then you they'd be that's funny he didn't he didn't remember the day right that's what i'm saying that he couldn't remember the day you know he just remembers that it was me right and like how did you when i ask him how did you know it was me he said when he walked in the courtroom

and saw me he's like oh oh now he looked back he remembered it was you look that never happened that's not possible no i agree with you that's not possible because you know because you because Just think about it, you would have to have total recall of every person you've ever met. Especially this was, this was weeks or months later. Months, seven months, seven to eight months later. I couldn't tell you what the barista at the Starbucks looks like. And she's given me, you know, a coffee three times a week for the past six months. I don't know.

Couldn't tell you what any of the people look like. Well, he's claiming he remembered because he was looking for that apartment. And I guess he remembered who walked in. So he saw me walk in and it was, you know, me walked in front of the car. Maybe it was you. All right. Yeah, but he couldn't remember what I had on. Like, yeah, he goes, a dark, a dark color, a light colored shirt and dark colored pants.

That's the best I can give you. There's no horrible story. So what, what happened? What happened? I lost, what did you? He's not aggressive? That's not an assert. Assert.

Yeah, he is asserted. of well he made he made up stories oh my in order to get a convention that's victims victims they just do that but but but he's so i expect that from the police like the police are going to do that huh oh from from a victim i kind of expect them to be like what happened this is what kind of happened you know you know i don't quite have an understanding i don't expect a victim to say hey I jumped in my car and drove over to where this packages were being delivered, and I saw this guy walking into the apartment. So I have a, what I consider an aggressive victim. Okay.

This isn't me. Although I have one, but, you know, to me it's like, eh, whatever. It doesn't matter. But so mine would be the guy Michael Shannon. I, where I, we, Becky rented his house. We moved in, you know, and I asked her rent the house. So really, you know, I rented the house, whatever. So we rented the house, moved in there. I made a fake idea in his name. I satisfied the two mortgages that he had on his house. I then borrowed three hard money lenders loans on his house. So we're bored, right? Like, you know, we've got a chunk of money and we're kind of hanging out. And we're waiting to, to really kind of wait for these loans to go through. And we're doing stuff. You know, we're going on little vacations and goofing off.

But there's not, you know, it's not a full-time job just waiting around. So I started, I made a paper mache sculpture, right? It was made a paper mache, you know, chicken wire paper mache. And he's, and the paper mache, and he's basically the guy on his knees, like, screaming. Like the scream, the sculpture to scream? Yes, very similar. So I make this. And, you know, I'm really almost done with it.

So I'm feeling pretty good. Well, what happened was when we get the $400,000 out of the bank, we pack up. We had a Honda, I want to say a Honda element. Element. Yeah, it was like a boxy little S. That was in the paper, by the way. Right. When I read about you, that was the fact that you were driving.

around in a Honda element. Yeah, it was silly. Like, you know, but we financed it 100%, not in our credit and somebody else's credit. So, obviously, which I feel bad about it. So naturally what, and I've tried to talk to that guy, by the way. I've tried to reach out to him kind of like, hey, man, what's up? How did the have, whatever happened with that, he won't respond. And I know he got the message because he's told people like, fucking like, like,

Cox sent me a, cock sent me a, he sent me a, he hit me up on, on a message. They're like, did you respond to him? No. Why? I don't know. I don't know. What do I say? I'm like, okay, I said, I feel bad. I'm curious. It's been 15 years. You're holding resentment. So, let that go. Yeah, let that go, bro. So, well, I'm trying to give you closure. You can call me names and stuff. Anyway, actually, it's 20 years. For him, that's roughly 20 years. So, so I do the scream. We get the money out, you know, and we're packing, we're packing up all of our stuff. the Honda element, right? So we just need, we didn't have a lot of money at the time. We had like, I left Tampa with like 80 grand. We're blowing through that money. We borrowed another 50,000 on another little scam. We just borrowed 400 and something thousand.

So, you know, we don't have enough money to be going and buying $100,000 sports cars. So we finance this little car. Well, what happens is when we're packing the car up, we can't pack the entire. car full, right? Like, you can't put everything in. And that, that statue, it's bulky. It's a human size statue on its knees. And the truth is, I couldn't put it in the van, like in the Honda element. Like, we removed the back seat because it would have that removable thing. We had this thing completely packed. And when it came down, like, I remember Becky was like, well, let's tie it on the roof. Like, it's, what are you talking about? The wind will tear this thing apart, let alone if

it rains. Like, there's no way. And so we sat there. And I was like, I mean, I'm sitting there thinking, hey, let's leave some of your clothes, some of these boxes of clothes. And she's like, you're a nut. So I went, okay, I mean, you know, fuck it. And we just, I put it in the garage, just set it in the garage. And I remember there was, we left the mattresses, because all we had in that apartment was a box spring and a mattress and the metal, you know, frame. We took those, actually took those apart and put them in the garage. we put the that that statue in the garage it's all kind of laying in the corner

we had the carpets cleaned we had no furniture we really only lived in the upstairs master bed bedroom and bath we traveled the rest of the time and when I you know after we took out the mortgages I had the paperwork for the mortgages And I left them in the kitchen on the counter. You have those little bar counter things. I just left it there, all three. Because, you know, look, I'm not trying to cause this guy any problems. But I know I wanted to let him, I wanted him to get the paperwork so he could see there's

insurance policies. Like, all you got to do is claim against the insurance policies. Now, I, I didn't leave them a note or anything, okay? But, you know, like saying, hey, by the way, I know you're about to have your world turned upside down, but here's some insurance policies and just make the claims against the policies. But I did leave all the paper. paperwork and the policies were in there and everything.

I knew the cops would show up. I figured the FBI, but it turns out to be, it was the secret service. Anyway, point is, we get up and we leave. So we, we, we pack our stuff, we leave. We got our money, we'd go. So whatever it was, two years later, three, about three years later, I get, two years later, I get caught, three, a year after that, I'm being sentenced. He comes in at my sentencing.

And he says, when I, came home like what happened was he went to the house one day he didn't get our our rent five six days go by he goes to give like the three day notice he shows up said he opened up the uh the mailbox and there's a bunch of you know a bunch of uh letters in there addressed to him from credit card companies and different companies he doesn't know who they are so he opens them up like they're addressed to him because i had stolen his identity although the truth is i didn't use his social security number. I didn't use his date of birth. I didn't even use his full name because I didn't know his middle name. It was like Michael S. Shanahan. And I went with like Michael Sean Shanahan. And it was

actually Michael something else Shanahan didn't use his date of birth or his social security number. I didn't even use the address. I used a PO box. I mean, I'm sorry, like a UPS box address. right so i don't think that it connected to his credit at all and here's what happened when we get the sentencing he said that they they said he said well what happened when you came home he said when i came he was i drove by the house not home but i drove by the house he said there was there was stuff in the mail open the mail realized there's a bunch of credit cards that say that payments are due he said they're not my credit cards he said then i noticed there was a an envelope that said like, you know, had mortgage payments.

They weren't late. There were just mortgage payments that, you know, and when they were due. He's like, everything was addressed to me. So he said, I went to the house. I looked in. He said, it was empty. I opened the door. I went inside.

And he said, the house was completely trashed. He had destroyed that he destroyed the house. He said that I had taken the statue and stuck it in the middle of the living room. And I spread out. all of the title work and the title paperwork that I had actually left in the in the you know they give you like these envelopes there like a folder they give you like a folder by three folders he said I'd taken all the paperwork and spread it around in a big circle around the guy who was screaming like this and he said it was like he was mocking me he was mocking me to let me know that he had destroyed my life wow and I'm

sitting there going the judge is looking me like you scumbag now the truth is if he had gone in and said look you know what he had the stuff here there was some stuff in the garage he left the place at immaculate condition honestly i had it rented out within two weeks i didn't really lose any money if he had said that i was going to get the exact same sentence right but what killed me is like it's like like you didn't i get i understand i'm a scumbag. I did what I did. We already know that. We know that I'm facing charges. I'm going to go to prison for a long time, probably a lot longer than you already anticipate, by the way. Because they spoke with another one of my victims. And that victim said, when you saw that Mr. Cox got 26 years, what did you think? She said, I was absolutely shocked. She said, I didn't think he would get anything near that much. time. She said, but I wasn't upset about it. She said, it's what he got. That's fine. She said, I just didn't think he was going to get anything like that. Now, obviously, she doesn't care.

You know, she's a victim. They don't care what you get. Um, but this guy went above and beyond. And it was like, you know, all you really had to do was walking and just tell the truth. Like, I'm already done. You know, you walked in and you basically made it sound like I was cruel and I was taunting you and I was doing this and doing it and I trashed your house like all these things that that I didn't do like I'm okay owning up to what I did it was like you did this and this was a scumbag move absolutely you're right it was a scumbag move but you don't you have to completely like just make stuff up and lie like just to try and make me look evil what why do you think he did that like because I think what most people think is all of his buddies are probably telling

him yeah man you know he's going to get nothing those white collar guys get nothing. Oh. So you think he was amping it up for you to get more time? Right. He was thinking, yeah, that's bullshit. He's probably the only going to get a year or two, like not even realizing. Here's the thing. What's funny about white collar guys is everybody always says, oh, they don't get anything. They don't get anything. They don't typically get anything or get much time if they won, like, follow the guidelines. You know, if you really follow the guidelines and you probably get something reasonable. or they cooperate like they're looking at 10 years based on the guidelines and maybe they deserve 10 years but they cooperate and they end up with four years or three and people go that's bullshit that's a that's so scum they'd ever get any time well yeah but the truth is he cooperated and he helped bring down the other eight guys right like you know and people say you know oh well that's bullshit okay well then I won't cooperate and I'll get the 10 years and all those guys will go free is that right oh well no that's not right either okay so you want it both ways And if you want to, if you want to add, how they get it. But go ahead. And if you want to add 20 times to the budget, you can prosecute every single person. If you want to spend, instead of spending $2 billion a year on, on, you know, the court system, instead you spend, you know, $20 million or $20 billion a year. You can prosecute every single person. But at that point, you'd have so many people getting so much time, they'd end up reducing all the sentences. And then you'd probably end up getting what you should have got to begin with. And,

you broke you you break the bank there's like you know you just there is no there is no solution so you know but what i'll tell you what's not the solution getting in front of a court and lying this is john boziak's brother okay so i'm going to try and remember it for the best i can john boziac's brother has a his brother's name is chris right chris was using so boziac made was used to make um fake credit cards like counterfeit credit cards so he goes and his brother was ordering credit cards off this website uh carter dot su and bozac was also selling off carter dot su well if i remember this right his brother contacted him and told him like i saw he saw his stuff he said bro send me some credit cards so bozac was like okay so he sent him some cards his brother

was a carter anyway but these happened to be i think think these were Boziacs cards. So he takes the cards. He uses them. And I think he runs up, I want to say, so it's either like $7,000 or it was like $12,000. I forget in a day, he runs up that much in a day going to targets. He hits five or six targets. I'm almost positive of his target. It wasn't Walmart. He was target. So he goes to all these different targets. Well, one of the things you do is if you don't want to use a fake ID, can use your real ID, right? Right.

So you just change the name on the face of the card and on the back of the card because when they swipe it, it only takes down the numbers and the numbers connect to the real person. Right. And if they, if they check, if it says check the ID, then they'll look at the front of the card and they'll look at your ID. So he actually used his real ID. This is, keep in mind, this is 10, 15 years ago.

This is before the chips and everything else. Right. So his brother goes in, he buys a bunch of stuff. And he was buying stuff that he could resell on like eBay. So he bought at that particular place, I think he bought six or $700 worth of stuff on this credit card. He uses his card, swipe, and they swipe it, and it ends up having, when they swipe it, when they swipe it, it ends up taking down, it does take down his name. so it's got his name on like the receipt in the system um the owner of the card's name no no both um Christopher Boziak's name oh so but it doesn't matter he's like it doesn't matter

because it's just an ID and it doesn't end up going to him like like it ends up he was like they did it all the time it never catches up to you they basically they deny it they don't get paid the credit card company eats the bill nobody's going to follow up on it right he's they never follow up on it you know you just so this woman gets a phone call for the real card holder gets a phone call from um the and it was like it was like hunters bank or something like from hunter's bank so she huntington maybe it was huntington so from like huntington bank she gets a phone call hey have did you just use your credit card at the local um target right now keep in mind you know when they used the cards they always made sure the numbers went within that that area like you

can't steal someone's card in california and start using it in florida they immediately go whoa whoa whoa what's this person doing in florida so this was they was a it was a local it was in the local zone so they call her and she goes no and they go okay great we'll we'll stop the charges well by that point they've gone through the kids left so she goes i want the numb the where was it and they tell her She calls down there. She says, listen, that wasn't me. They're like, oh, okay, we know. We've talked to Huntington Bank.

And she's like, okay, okay. She's like, well, do you guys have security cameras? And they're like, yeah, I know. We've already reversed the charges. You're not going to get charged. She's, no, no, no. This person's using my stuff. I want to know who it is.

I want you to catch them. I want to see those, those charge, those cameras. So she drives down there. She calls the police. she drives down to the cop shows up and says yeah yeah we'll fill out a police report she says no let's go look at the cameras so that keep on i read this whole report how this cop was like got there the whole thing this woman goes he's at the whim of this victim yes yeah i have a story kind of similar to that he just wants to pull the he just wants to fill

out the fucking paperwork and go and send it off into oblivion right she's dragging him into security let's look at the video they look at the video they can't they can kind of make it out She doesn't know who the guy is. She's like, I don't know who there was two of them, by the way. So she doesn't know it was him and a friend. And she looks at him. She's like, I don't really know who that is. And then they go, can you print out, she goes, can you print out a list or the receipt?

They go, they print out the receipt. They look at it. She's like, yeah, okay, that doesn't help me. I don't know what these items are. I don't know who this is. And the cop looks at it. And he goes, well, this isn't your name. Do you know this person?

You know, Christopher, Poseiac. And she's like, no. No, I don't. And the cop goes, hmm. Hold on a second. He goes to his car, and he looks up Christopher Boziac and he sees,

there's an act, he's a pretty uncommon name. Not a lot of Boziacs out there, bro. So he pulls it up and he goes, and he looks and he goes, that's funny. There's only like one or two in this whole, in the state.

And one of them lives about three miles from here. He gets into his car. He drives to the apartment complex. He knocks on the door. Christopher opens the door. He looks down and there's packages and the target bags and everything. And he just basically opens the door and he's just standing there. He looks at him and he's like, he's like Christopher Boziak.

He recognized him. Of course, he's got the picture. And he's like, how did you get? How did you get me? And the cops like, you know, you're, you're under arrest. And, you know, they, they, it's so funny, too, because in the police report, like, Bozac's brother never talks to him. Right. Doesn't admit to anything.

Won't give him a statement. Um, the guy he was with, which I want to say his last name was Dickerson. I just remember because it was like, it was a dick. I was like Dickerson or something like Richard Dickerson. I'd forget his first name, Boziac would remember. Anyway, um, he just he's like we ordered the cards off this off of this uh this website we this we that we've been you crumbled like a cookie oh of course he crumbled immediately this that uh told him everything

but but you know boziac's brother who really knew how he had gotten the cards right never said anything because it was his because you know it's his brother so but the other guy um dickerson or something Anyway, he thought that they'd ordered them off of the website because they'd been on the website and they were going to order them. But that's not what it ended up happening was. He just called his brother and said, hey, man, you got a thing on this website. Yeah. Send me some cards. Right.

And he's like, oh, man, all right, all right. So anyway, yeah, but that is to me and is an aggressive victim. Had she not gone down to the target, had she not said I want to see the, because she thought, She must have thought, and they never said this in the police world. I always thought she must have thought, I'm going to recognize this person. Like maybe I know this person, like not realizing they bought, they bought this off of a website, you know. Anyway, I want to say it was, it was between 7 or 12,000 because I remember getting the letter from Huntington Bank where they had said it was like they ran up, you know, $8,000 within like a day. That's a pretty stiff order because he wasn't buying electronics either.

what was he buying you know he's buying like accessories for electronics so or and for like game boy he was buying like you know not maybe it's not game or maybe it was Xbox something I don't know but it was like all these extra things like um you know like the the actual devices that the whatever the what do they call those things you use to to play stick yeah like the joysticks and the controller I think it's called controller now yeah boy everybody on here's going to be like these two old fucks um Yeah, the controllers, you know, any type of accessories that he could then sell on eBay where it's like, okay, well, that's 50 bucks. That's 100 bucks. That's 200 bucks. And other little things, you know, oh, this is a case for a Game Boy or for a whatever. Or you can buy this stand. So it was still electronics, but it wasn't electronics. But it wasn't scrutinized more. Right. And he wasn't charging much. 500 bucks, 800 bucks. But he's driving all day from target to target to target to target to target. target to target this is his brother that was doing this yeah he went to jail twice he went to jail in florida and in um i think in michigan too for carding wow bozac's only been to for

carding sorry he's never been for carding he has been for uh for the counterfeiting he went that's what i met him in prison the counterfeiting of the cards of the cards what's so funny about him too is i was like well how many cards were you caught with he's like i don't know i'm like you don't remember he's like I don't know I think 50 maybe 100 he is I like I was selling big batches and that's a big batch most of the time they sell like five 10 and he's like it was a big batch he was maybe 50 or 100 and then I got his sentencing transcript and the judge says well I see you were caught with 300 cards and he was like and I was like you were caught with or maybe it was 250 whatever and he goes I said it says 300 he's like that's possible I

I don't remember. I didn't keep count. I didn't keep count. He's like, I knew it was a lot. He's like, but a lot could be 50. It could be 500. He's like, I was selling a lot of cards. Yeah.

So funny. His customers, did they get rounded up? No, because most of them were from out of the country. And keep in mind, when they caught him, they really didn't know what he fully was doing fully was doing and it was so funny too

because it was connected to a much larger indictment so they they had heard like his screen name connected with this other

with these people on this other indictment and the Secret Service at one point they show up and his lawyer shows up and she's like listen

like he'd just signed for like two years because they had to drop the counterfeiting and he just got hit with aggravated identity theft so he's ready to go he's like i'm going so they show up and she says listen secret services here they want to talk to you about this indictment they've indicted a bunch of people and they want to talk to you and she's like i mean you know maybe maybe you know something maybe you could help me she's like maybe you don't have to go to fucking prison at all and he was like i mean i'll hear he's like i'll hear him like what do they have to say like he's like i he's like i I don't really know anybody. So he already knew there's nothing I can do. Even if I wanted to help, I can't. I don't know these people that I'm dealing with. They give me an address. They send me money onto like a card. And then they give me an address.

I put the package together. I mail it from a UPS store or I drop it in a bend, whatever. Like I don't know who these people are. Right. So when they show up, they start talking to them. and he said keep in mind they only know that i've sold i told them he told them he had just gotten on the forum he'd only made a few small sales and they know that's got to be bullshit because they caught him with fucking two or three hundred cards and they caught him by the way he's got

two thermal printers he's got like five or six different laptops it's so funny when he was telling me all this i hadn't gotten anything yet so i'm just taking his word for it and then as the stuff starts showing up fucking like six laptops two thermal printers the printers are like five grand pieces this is abigail ab what's his name uh frank abignale yeah this is abignale all over again

right it was he was immersed it was um msr 205 reader writers I mean he just had a ton of like he has like three of them he's got you know foil printers he's got four of them it's like you don't need but one of all of these why do you have and he's like

Corolla is making that many cards really I'm thinking he's overlapping different artwork or something no it was so the problem with the printers is he said even though he said if you read the stuff on the printer

he said it tells you like they won't overheat he goes but that's not true they do overheat so right so he said I got two he had two printers same things that he had fans that would blow out he said I'd sit there

in my fucking my under or my boxers and a t-shirt he said the room would get so fucking hot from the computers the uh the printers the all of it this is this is old what is this is like early 2000s yeah yeah yeah i think they've upgraded them anyway so but when he but when the when the secret service show up he said i was like they were asking me questions and most of it i was just like i don't know i don't know i don't know he said and then they went um have you ever been to Russia? And he goes, no. And they go, do you speak Russian? He said, and right then I realized, oh, no, no. Like the people that I didn't want to talk about, now I know that that's why they're really here. He said, I was like, yeah, listen, I don't know. I can't talk you. I want to go. He looked

at his lawyer and his lawyer was like, oh, this is over. We're done. And he, because he realized, okay, the Russian, the Russian, you know, it's Carter.S.U., which is Soviet Union. It's an old designation so he knew then okay they've connected me to these russians and keep mind his last name's boziac it's fucking yeah it's not russian is it um it's something like that it's it's slavic in some way it is it is a little european yeah slavic kind of boziac right you know so anyway he he was like yeah yeah yeah we're done so the aggressive the aggressive the aggressive victim was the one that was let's let's bring this charge to fruition they would have filled that up listen they weren't even going to call the fucking i mean they weren't even

going to call the authorities target wasn't going to call the authorities they just chalk it up to we lost some money the the visa or hunting to bank they're just going to pay nobody's calling she's the one no no no no we're calling no no we're going down there no i want to see the fucking film no that name right there hey what is this name? That's pretty odd. The cops like, okay, let me look it up. Oh, man, there's a guy three, four miles from here. Let me drive by his out. Damn it. He's all. I'm going to do more police. I thought I was going home in an hour. Right. So that to me is that's an assertive or an aggressive victim. Well, well, and believe it or not, most fraud that's prosecuted comes from that type of victim. Like in the three times I've been to court, I've heard the detectives complain that the victims kept calling those damn victims. Yeah. So I'm serious. I've heard them complain that. So it wasn't, so one time, one of the people I worked with, his name was Chris, Chris and Estella. So Estella was babysitting, right?

Who? She was babysitting. I'm not going to remember the name of the person. But she was babysitting some doctor and their kids, and she went through their mail. And she ended up giving it the information to Chris upon which we were able to fraud them for probably about, I'd say about, it wasn't much. It was like $2,500 that we were able to get before they stopped us. Well, somehow another, they figured out exactly what happened. They figured out that Estella must have given the information to Chris, because they consistently called the police. And remember all when I told you about all those times I was arrested with my, um, with Winter's mother. Yeah. Every time we were arrested,

they would come and question us about that information from that babysitting kid. Like he would come, the cop would come and say, well, you might as well admit. So they've got you for these crimes so you might as well tell me what happened with that um when you opened up that account under mr such and such as name like his whole deal was you might as well admit it you need to go ahead and admit that that's what you did and apparently are my conscience huh for my conscience yeah how about new Exactly. He came to see me. He came to see Winter's mom and Chris. Matter of fact, Chris got arrested in Georgia. And one time I'd caught back up with him and he told me that that guy had called him. You know, and he's like he just like he's in another jail and another state and he's calling. He goes, he just hung up on him. Like, dude, let it go. You have no. evidence, you know, but, but, um, to me once he mitted, because I'm asking him, I'm like, dude,

like, why are you still? I go, how much money was lost in that? Because I, I know it's like $1,500. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, I go, well, how much money was actually taken? Oh, it's $1,500. So I'm going, it's been five years, bro. I mean, are you like, is there a bet? Yeah. Is it? And that's what is, do you have any other cases? Like, what are you doing that happened like way down in fort myers why are you here in tampa asking me about 1500 fucking dollars yeah he goes well the the he kept telling me he said the lady i forgot her name and it calls me all the time so apparently she was keeping up with us and every time we get arrested she's like call a hey go talk to him maybe they'll confess we called him he's in jail

All right, I did it. Do you need me to come down? Nope. Already admitted it. Now, that was an assertive, because he told me that she's been bothering him about that. So obviously, like, whenever we get arrested, she's getting some kind of report. But the guy, her husband, was a lawyer. But I don't know what she did, but he told me it was her.

You know, so it wasn't him. So she was like, you bastard. use my husband's information and get $1,500. Yeah, no, I'm not letting that go. I knew a guy who was stealing credit card information on people, and he ended up getting a U.S. attorney's information. And he had been doing this for, he said, like, years. Did he know it was a U.S. attorney?

No. I didn't know it was a U.S. attorney until he said I got caught. He's like, but he got him. They got like 30, 40 grand or 80 grand. It was a significant amount of money. And even though the U.S. attorney didn't, you know, they weren't charged with it. They just took out, he just got a loan in his name and some credit cards.

And as a result of that, when the U.S. attorney got it and he called, they were like, you know, he called. And they were like, yeah, yeah, this is one. This is a common scammer. You know, we don't know who he is, obviously. But this is what he does. And they were like, and he was like, they were like, yeah, well. you know, you got your money, but you filed your charges. You got your money back from the, from they closed the account.

Like, you're good. And he was like, oh, no, no, no, you're going to, we're going to get this guy. And they were like, okay, well, he does it all the time. He's like, we're working on tons of these. He's like, yeah, you're prioritizing this. Call the buddy of his who was the, from the FBI. FBI got involved because at this level, it was in California. It was just a local case.

They got lots of stuff like this. There was a local, you know, so it wasn't a, it wasn't an FBI. it wasn't a federal case at that time. It was the locals. Well, he got the FBI involved. FBI tracks it down and within a few months they got this guy. And he'd been doing it for years. And you know what?

One of the things he did, which is common, back then, remember when they could, they would overnight you your card? Yes. So he was calling, he was using the spoof app. He'd get your information. He would call using the spoof app. right and he'd call the bank and apply for the loan and you get like a 40 30 40

$40,000 credit card they'd overnight it and then he would and this guy I remember this too hit a nice vehicle but Boziac did this a few times too um but his problem was he just didn't like using the cards so Boziac or this guy no no Bozac he doesn't like using the cards he's like goes in he's like you're bound to get caught inside with the stuff he's like you're done he's like The way, what he was doing, he felt like was very safe. I drop it off at a fucking place. I know, nobody knows where I live. You know, I use a socket server or a VPN.

I, I, I, nobody, you know, I go to a separate location. You know, he'd go sit in a bookstore for four hours and just, you know, check his email once every day or two, get his orders in, wouldn't do it from his house. Or if he did, he'd use like a somebody else's Wi-Fi, like one of his neighbors. You go to an apartment complex. Back then, he said you could get one of those little dishes and tie into other people's Wi-Fi. So, but anyway, this guy would go and he had a nice car and he would basically order the card and then go sit in front of the guy's house. So when the, so when the FedEx guy pulls up, he would get out of his house and he's in a nice car.

Get out of his car, start walking towards the door. FedEx guy would walk around, see him walking. He'd turn around. He'd go, oh, you know, John Smith and the guy would be like, yeah, he'd go, okay, here. And he'd grab it and sign for it and the guy would turn on leave. Never asked for ID or anything. he'd walk up to the house. He's like, oh, he's in time.

I'd walk up the house and be standing there for a minute, like scared. Like, this dude's not leaving. What's he doing in that truck? And he said anyway, he said, you know, I'd turn around, walk back, get in the car. You know? And then, you know, I remember being like, you know, what if the guy knocks on the door? And he was, or what if somebody comes to the door? So he's like, well, I say it's the wrong house.

I said, Jennifer here. And they're like, no. He's like, was this address? And they'd go, yeah. And he'd go, all right. All right. Well, let me call her. my phone to my car get my car and leave you know that's that it's amazing because i thought i thought

of that you know no these you know there's well you know what what he did was he would then call a spoof use a spoof card to call and activate the card they think you're calling from the house so he he applied in the house they've delivered to the house he calls and activates it from the house they think it's this guy so so so Neo gave me the spoof card information a long time ago. I actually used it to terrorize my brother when he was on crack cocaine benches because I paid for his phone. So I would look and see what number he's dialed,

and then I dial him from a friend and then just disguise my voice. Like I'd call and he'd think it was like whoever. He's like, yo, what's up? But I'd be, all right, go to it. You're like, Joe? Yeah. But you were going to say you'd have a call from like the police station or the local cops or the local sheriff of the FBI. I would just like I act like I was an undercover.

I'd be like how long you've been buying drugs from this guy? You know, like, oh. But no, the better story is I went to an electrical supply store where. you know back in the days when there were landlines right yes they had the the telephone guy when he came to your house mr telephone man he had a device that he would use where he could plug into your phone and test it right so i bought one of those devices in order to what you call spoof but i have to go into the back of the house into the telephone box

right plug it in and plug it in and now I get the dial tone and I'm dialing and calling and everything like while I did that they came out with the wireless one so I could plug it in and actually walk back to my car and just wait

so now I could hear so when the phone ring I'd see who'd call and I know whether it was one I wanted to answer or not but if I answered and they answered or they could hear me. They could hear me. It was a unique situation. Or if I was on the phone talking to the card company and you happen to pick up the phone.

Jennifer, hang up the phone. I'm on the line. Oh, sorry. Who was that? Hey. Oh, it happened. I think it happened only maybe once. And I, you know, I'm telling the person, I'm like, I think your line got crossed.

I go, I've been, like I lied and said, I called the phone company and they told me they're going to take a look at it because when I pick up the phone, I heard a dial tone. But listen, let me finish this call and then I'll be off the phone and you can use it. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. Click. Okay. Now, can I go ahead and get my card on the nerve of that bitch? You know what I?

Any more aggressive victims? Well, no, I can't think of any. right off hand. You know, I mean, you know, listen, what I've done to people is unexcusable, you know, but it's, and I'm just saying their reaction to it sometimes seems a little bit over the top is all I'm saying, but yeah, it's a unique. Sometimes it's funny. I mean, at the time, it's anguish, but if I can look back on it and kind of laugh, you know, and kind of like, Like, Mr. R. I can laugh.

Not as long as I can laugh. Oh, yeah, that's true. I'm not concerned about them laughing. Yeah, Mr. Mr. R was without question. Like, there are many, many, many, many days I think about him. And, and just, I don't even know how I feel. Sometimes I'm angry.

Sometimes I'm kind of like, that's actually pretty clever. You know, I'm kind of envious. I go through a range of emotions dealing with. You got to remove yourself from the situation. Well, and I've told myself many times, I'm like, of course I'd have done that. You know, like, I didn't use his card. I used other people's cards. So obviously he could call his card and say, hey, I just ordered a whole bunch of stuff from this catalog.

And it wasn't me, you know, and get all that money back. Because I've been a victim of a crime. As long as this guy gets prosecuted, so I'm definitely going to court. You know, my issue was, and I admit, that's what I wanted to ask you when you heard the story. what would because I really believe it's made up about me walking in front of the car right in your mind where would that even stem from like you think the detective told him like look we're going to need to tie him to that apartment right um yeah I mean I could I could see the thing is prior to being you know going through the system and having to deal with law enforcement and speaking with them and being interviewed by them and I would never think that they would do something like that, but, but now having gone through the system and spoken with, one, and spoken with, you know, not just like FBI, Secret Service, U.S. Marshals, sheriff's deputies, in general, just the whole gambit, you know, and the criminals that

I've spoken with. I, I genuinely can see law enforcement saying, look, you know, our only issue is this. We really need to tie them. So if you can remember, maybe that you remember maybe you drove through the place maybe you saw like like absolutely like would they do that prior to being incarcerated going through the system I would have been like no that doesn't happen they wouldn't do that why would they do that but the truth is they do do that and I've seen that and I've had that happen to me I told you when the FBI came to see me um at the uh was I at the medium was at the medium when I was at the medium they came to see me and they were in investigating that that politician that I'd bribed Michael or Kevin White and they were and I'd

used the proceeds from Michael White, which was a fictitious person that I'd, we'd borrowed like half a million dollars in his name. And we'd taken some of that money and given it to Kevin White for his campaign. The lawyer had said, well, here's a problem. The campaign violations that we could clearly prove the statute of limitations is up. But he said, but the, bank fraud, those charges have a 10 year, 10 year statute of limitations, and that's not up. So if he knew that you were using his name to borrow that money or that, you know, he knew about that scam, then we could tie him into that scam and we could charge him. And I was like, yeah, but he didn't, he didn't know that.

And they were like, okay, right, but the jury, you, you, you, you're, ran a scam as as Michael Kevin White. And then you gave proceeds from that scam to Kevin Michael White. Nobody would believe that he wasn't involved or didn't know about it. And I go, I know, but that's what was so funny is that I was like, I just happened to have been dealing with him and seeing his, the signs in the area. So I thought, and I was already naming these guys, you know, the names of colors, you know, Brandon Green, you know, James. So I thought, hey, I'm going to go with, that guy's name is Kevin Michael White. I'm going to go with Michael White.

I said, so it was just coincidence. And he was like, yeah, but nobody would believe that. And I was like, yeah, but it was a coincidence. And he just, the look on his face, like at that time, like when I left that meeting, I went back and I told Reese about it. And Reese was like, you fucking idiot. He was giving you this guy on a silver plate. He was telling you, if you say this.

We'll indict him, prosecute him because we know he's already done this other crime. We can't get him on, but we can get him on this crime and you can help us get him. All you have to do is say, absolutely, he knew, he knew this, he knew that. He would definitely, you know, he, we talked about it. He, you know, we named it because we thought it was funny. And he, you know, I gave him the money and he immediately deposited it into his bank, which he did. Right. But he's like, I mean, that was a guaranteed get out of jail free card.

we'll not get out of jail free, but you could get your sentence reduced. All you got to do is say that. And I was like, and of course, I didn't know that's how the system was. Or I didn't know at that time, I still believed that that law enforcement was going to do the right thing. And they were all blah, blah, blah, not realizing that they would have no problem, you know, in a sense, you know, framing a guilty man. But still, you know, because he's guilty, but not of that crime. Right. But it didn't enter my mind because I was not at that point.

I'd just been locked up a few years and I still thought the right thing, do the right thing. And boy, was I wrong? And what's even worse is a year later, they indicted him on bribery charges for another bribery. And he went to trial, lost, and got three years. Like, he's going to prison anyway. Like, why not you get a piece of it? What was I thinking, bro? what was I thinking you didn't you didn't catch the the inference the wink wink nod nod you

I kind of did but at that point I was frustrated look there were other people in my chart in my case that they were working on so it's like I've already got a bunch of people that are going to get indicted I thought I didn't realize they were going to drop the charges I already kind of assumed they were going to indict these other people they'd already been indicted they were just unnamed co-conspirators and they had me cooperating so I was already kind of of like I don't need the lie about this guy. I've got these other like it was kind of almost like I was trying to like move past this so we can work on the stuff I've got going. People you consider actual criminals. You're like what he did. These guys did some shit. Right. I'm not going to frame the guy. He didn't know about this. Is he a scumbag? Yeah, he's a scumbag. But but that has nothing to do with this case. Like I've got another case going like, why are you even here? I understand you're working on your case, but we're done. Let's. Because there were two agents. Like, this is the agent I want to talk to.

You know, looking back, I should have said, fuck it. It was his idea. Anyway. I think you're horrible. All right. I'm hearing the close out speech. We got an hour to have. So plus my phone's going nuts.

You know, Tammy's on me. Oh, my God. Are you talking to that cremano? Maybe. okay you got your Christmas card I don't know if I said thank you oh yeah yeah you you mentioned no problem like what listen I'm a guy that sends out Christmas cards now you're you're like Eddie you're like Eddie Murphy now you're the fatherly figure it's horrible and I'm more like Bill Cosby in hiding I put out a video it came out today it's got like it's only been out like

five or six hours. It got like 9,500. Oh, yeah. About this guy that I was locked up in prison with, right? Like his name's, they call him Skinny Joey Marlino. He was head of the Philadelphia crime family or mob or something, the Philly mob. And there's like a whole YouTube mob war going on between him and this other guy, Michael Francescfranches. Frenchesee, Frenchesee? Anyway, this guy, Michael. And Sammy the Bull. Is he out? Is Sammy the Bull? You know, he was. He's out and he's got a huge YouTube channel. He was in Coleman with us. No. No, no, no, no, not Sammy the Bull. No, you're thinking Whitey Bulger. He wasn't in Coleman with us. Not with us. There was a mobster guy in Coleman with us. He had a bodyguard.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He used to be. He used to, it was a big old white guy. He used to beat him up. It was an old white, oh, what was his name? He had the thing on his hand. Yes, the thing on his wrist all the time. And he would yell at him and he'd be like, The bodyguard had the thing on his wrist all the time.

No, the big bodyguard did, right. Yes. And the real guy would yell at him. Yes. And the little mob boss used to yell at him and hit him with his cane. Yeah. You don't know what you're doing. Get out what you're doing.

I'm sorry, Tony. I'm sorry, Anthony. I'm sorry, Anthony. I'm sorry. That wasn't, I'm going to think of his name because it was funny because all the black guys knew him

and loved him. There's only, they only have five names. They loved him because he was a mob boss, huh? There's only five names. Oh, it wasn't like Joey,

Richie. I think his name was Frank. Oh, okay. I think. I can't specifically remember. God, they,

they, anyway, the guy, the bodyguard ended up coming to the low. after I left the medium the bodyguard showed up with a low like the guy with the thing on his hand yeah the other guy must have died God man well I mean he was old he was old he was old he was old but he wasn't sick well I don't know oh he got killed you know or the the guy killed him but go ahead no the body guy it was amazing the little guy would yell at the big guy and he was

oh I'm so because one guy was like a made guy and one guy was just like a foot soldier yes he used to beat him man he used to beat him up I seen him hit the big guy with a cane in the library I know he's like they used to

like the staff used to break them up right and he's like and the big guy like oh it's okay it's okay it's okay it's okay that's it what the hell

well there's a whole little mob war going on and I did a little video on it and because I was in Coleman with Joey Marlino like I only sat with him a few times. But I mean, the guy was just, he was just horrible. I mean, he just talked bad about everybody. Everybody was a piece of garbage. Everybody was a scumbag. Everybody was a snitch.

Everybody, you know, it was just like, you know, so anyway, there's this whole mob thing going on right now between the channels, right? So I did a little video on it. Because I have some, you know, I don't know anything about the mob, but I do know a little bit about this guy and the character of these guys. And so I just kind of chimed in with another YouTuber who does. almost exclusively he does mob content right so it was so funny because I'm like oh yeah well that guy was kind of a jerk and you can look on look at his face is just like like what did you say like don't like like I didn't say that like I'm like it's kind of a jerk he's kind of a you know he's miserable he's this he's that he's and so listen do you want the hatred right now on that video for me

It's 95% you rat piece of shit. Joey Marlino's a stand-up guy, something you'll never be. You would never understand. I'm like, yeah, I get he's a stand-up guy. But the same thing that makes him a stand-up guy makes him just kind of like a scumbag human being, you know, like your kids don't talk to you, your wife doesn't talk to you, your friends don't talk to you, you have no close relationships. Nobody wants to deal with you.

You fucked over every single person you know. you know and you've had to do a considerable amount of time in prison and yet they act like he's living up to like the mob rule the omarta and that no you're on youtube talking about mob stuff you took a plea like one of the things is they never take a plea you don't admit the mob exists you admit the mob exists you're talking bad about other mobsters you're i mean it's just across the board it's like look i get it he kept his mouth shut but maybe you didn't know anything and then he took a and then he took a and then he took that i'm saying it now we're recording and then and then he took a plea yeah well this is sammy do you know his story like they were

relentless who was relentless you're talking about sammy the bull right no i'm talking about joey marlino oh marlino i don't know this story but no i mean sammy the bull yeah he was he was he Oh, Sammy the Bull was, you know, I mean, he rolled over on Gotti too. But look, I'm not going to prison the rest of my life for you. I'm sorry. My bad. You know? And it, keep in mind, too, he was talking, you know, like, whenever you talk to these guys,

they'll tell you that Gotti destroyed the mob. You just couldn't stop talking. Oh, Gotti? Goddy. Oh, yeah. On the tapes, all these tapes. He's talking about other guys. he's talking about all this crime that he's committing he's doing like you buried you didn't

just bury you you buried all of us and now I'm supposed to go to prison because you got me jammed up yeah that's the life that's the way that's not you know what I got another version I got alternate facts yeah I hear you you're a snitch and I feel bad about it I'm a free snitch So, yeah, I understood. I love these guys in the comment section there. You rat piece of garbage. I'm like, let's see. Your respect getting out of prison 12 years early.

Your respect getting out of prison. It's not much of a toss-up. Yeah, that's right. But thanks for watching the video. That's what I'm saying. Keep watching. Fuck you, bum bag. That video you did with that black guy, Zach, that's pretty good, though.

He's funny. How funny would that be? Yeah. He's actually pretty funny. That one where you guys talked about the prison fights, that was good. That was good. Fuck you, Cox. Except for the one video.

Hey, did you see the shorts I did of the, did you watch? Of the Thanksgiving? They were fun. No, I did like four of them. You only sent me two. I did one on um, yeah, I did one on Thanksgiving, one on Christmas and one on the Christmas bag. Oh, I didn't.

The Christmas bag was good. And then I did one on, oh, re-stealing those guys IDs. Oh, yeah, yeah. You didn't send me those. I don't see you watch. I sometimes I feel like it's not worth sending them to you because I'll send it. Like it's a minute video. I'll send it.

And five seconds later. you send me a thumbs up it's a minute video you didn't it's not bro don't don't don't it's not five seconds later i see you a thumbs up i watched the minute video and i said you it's a minute video you ever notice how fast you've got i've got read receipts so i know you notice how fast i received a video it doesn't sit there for i pay attention yeah it doesn't sit there forever you know it comes in you know what i'm saying it comes in playing it comes in playing Um, okay. Okay. Okay. Good talk. Good topic, no? Yeah, no, that's good. Colby'll do something. You didn't do an intro or an outro, so did you? I don't, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I went up to, um, Hoboken, New Jersey is, I think it's in New Jersey. It's in New Jersey, right?

Hoboken. Anyway, I went up there and I spent a couple days with Julian. He runs a channel called, uh, Julian, uh, Dory. And, You know, we spent a couple, we spent like a couple days up there and probably a day going over just how to do shorts and that sort of thing. And he was basically telling me, he's like, honestly, like you're wasting time introducing these people. He's like, you know, he's like, your better bet is just go straight into the interview, throw their name up and just go for it. He's like, you want to close it out? That's fine. He said, nobody's watching at that point. He said, most people have fallen off.

You know, they've clicked off by the time they, when they realize the video is coming to an end, A lot of people see that it's coming to an end. They're like, okay, I got the bulk of the information. I'm done. You know, but so he said you need to get, if you want to get more of a hook, start in, get into the interview faster. So we just stopped introducing people. And it hasn't seemed to harm us, you know, it, I mean, I'm going to try, I'm going to try

anything at this point, you know, the analytics, my analytics say that my videos should be getting hundreds of thousands of views and they're not you know and there's got to be I'm trying we're trying to kind of figure out what's working and what's not working I started another clips channel you know my clips channel I started the clips channel back up we're posting on that like we're we're doing one and two shorts a day you know so we're trying anything to move the numbers on the views I'm getting subscribers you know but subscribers are coming in because of the shorts, and they're not necessarily converting to viewers. Oh.

Right. The views are the money. The subscribers are not? Subscribers are not the money. Yeah. You're exactly right. You know, which is great. It's great to say, hey, I got 150 or 175,000 subscribers at town school, but that's just

bragging. That's like you're like, if you can say I got half a million subscribers, people are like, wow. But I'd rather say I got 10,000 subscribers. But my videos are getting 200,000 views. You know, because that's where, that's what converts to money. Well, that makes sense. Hey, this is Matt Cox.

I appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, leave me a comment in the comment section. Please consider joining my Patreon. It really does help. And I do appreciate it. My contact information is in the description box.

I did start a Clips channel. Please subscribe to my Clips channel. If you want to contact me directly via email or be on the show, please feel free to contact me at my email. It's also in the description box. Thank you very much, and I really do appreciate it. See you.