Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Gambling with Deception The Dark Secrets of the Uncaptured Fraudster | David Srail

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Gambling with Deception The Dark Secrets of the Uncaptured Fraudster | David Srail

So I was just going to the racetrack, basically. And so this guy sitting in the corner didn't bug us, really played it cool. And that's what a con man needs to do, kind of worked his way in. But we noticed he was a pretty good handicapper. He would pick some winners. And if he won, he would buy us a round of drinks. And Dave's like, hey, why don't you come move in with me and get a job where I work? I had mentioned something about watching the Kentucky Derby.

because that's my thing. I'm in horse racing. And Dave said, hey, at work, don't mention horse racing. Okay. So that was the only really thing that made me hesitate early on. And I'd see him talking to people, but everybody was Dave's friend at the office. This guy, everybody loved him. He had scams that he was working on, but I didn't know it at the time.

Right. So one Saturday, I'm at home. mail goes through the slot and it's his Bank of America statement I opened it Hey this is Matt Cox and I'm going to be doing an interview with Dave Wheelhauer and we're going to be talking about a con man

so check out the check out the video Dave how are you? I'm good I'm good I got a little story to tell you I know So you contacted me, you said, hey, man, listen, I knew this guy. He was a con man. This is an insane story.

And then we talked on the phone a couple times. And you, like, you're not obviously the con man, but you were, you ended up living with this guy. And you were friends with him for how long? I lived with him for six months. Right. And I saw the whole con unfold. I saw the tragic end when he skipped town in the end. But we'll get to that.

But I just saw the way he maneuvered. manipulated people and it's a pretty amazing story and it's and this guy had known these people for six seven years so it's not like some guy that just came in someone's life right but he was a con man so he was setting them all up the long con what happened like how like one did you ever find out like you know uh had he ever done this before he'd done it before right and then what so then he comes into town. And he starts over, he moves to Florida. Where he had he lived before? Cleveland, Ohio. And he done it in Cleveland. Yes. What had he done there? He had ripped people off about over $150,000. Okay. And his parents had to pay to make the people whole.

All right. And then he moves. Moves to Florida, works for a commercial fisherman for a while. Then he gets a job with Aby and Amro. That's the amalgamated bank of Amsterdam, Rotterdam. They're like the fourth or fifth largest bank in the world. LaSalle Bank, if you're familiar with them, out of Chicago. Okay. I'm not. I hear you. Well, they were big back in the day.

When was this? 2005. You're about to start your adventure and I was going on a little venture of my own there. So it's 2005. I had just shattered my femur falling off a roof. I'm a former financial advisor who does roofing. That, well, I wasn't really a roofer. I had another way to make some money.

I had friends that paint. Okay. So I was painting a roof. I wasn't actually a roof and I've said that. I had a guy that I used to work with that Payne Weber, UBS.S. Paine Weber said, I need my roof painted. The homeowners insurance associations coming after me. So make a long story short, I gave him a quote.

I didn't hear from them six months later. I come back. The tile breaks. I fall. I shatter my femur. I'm learning to walk again. And so I was just going to the racetrack, basically, at the Palm Beach Kennel Club. So you're not working.

Not working. Staying with mom and dad. Right. Mom taking care of me. Let me tell you something. When you wake up, see the beautiful sunrise, your body heals faster. They lived down the beach. It was great.

So this was spring training, 2005. My buddy Jeff Cox, we call him Coxie. I've known him for years. He said, hey, I'm going to bring Paul LaDucaa by. He's a new Marlon. He got traded the year before to come up and hang out with us. So I'm hanging out with Paul and Coxie, and there was this guy sitting in the corner,

kind of kept to himself, had a bag of pens in his racing for him, and slowly but surely, especially after Paul's wife went back to San Antonio, we were there Thursday, night, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, in a major league baseball you have to play about five innings and then you can leave and Paul had horses that he owned at the time so he would drive from Jupiter to West Palm Beach and watch him run so I'm having a blast just hanging out with these guys especially when they

make $8 million a year right and hanging out with Coxie and Paul and so this guy sitting in the corner didn't bug us really played it cool and that's what a con man needs to do kind of worked his way in. But we noticed he was a pretty good handicapper. He would pick some winners. And if he won, he would buy us around to drinks. And not that I'm an expert, but in my life, I've noticed if you want to be friends with a celebrity or be cool, don't ask him for anything. Don't ask for autographs. Don't be annoying. They want to be treated like a something. Yeah, you know, just they want to be treated like a regular dude. Right. And so I used to be a sports agent. And I had the, we would go to the second floor in this little cubbyhole cafe because I wanted to keep Paul away from, I hate to call him riffrapp, but a lot of the people in the kennel club, they're just brutal.

And, you know, they're probably Mets or Yankees fans and they're giving Paul Grief because he plays for the Marlins. And I remember one guy saying, hey, Ladook, I didn't know you're so short. And he'd say, yeah, but when I stand in my wallet, I'm a lot taller than you. All right. So, so anyways, time goes on and we just befriend this guy. He said, his name's Dave, David Scott Srail. My name's David Scott Wilhauer. Hey, that's nice.

He's from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm from Michigan, so he's a buck guy. I'm a wolverine. But he was just a super nice guy. And so then Paul was talking to him, Coxie's talking to him. So he kind of joined our little group for that month and a half every weekend. in the spring of 05. So about April, Coxie and Paul,

you know, the big club's going to go play at the old pro player stadium. We're the Dolphins play now. They've since moved to downtown Miami, but the Marlins played right out on the, right by Calder race course. And so I was thinking, hey, I'm going to go the racetrack and then I go see boys play baseball. And Dave's like, hey, why don't you come move in with me and get a job where I work?

And I was like, well, what do you do? He's like, well, it's a mortgage company. He's like, you'd be great selling mortgages. Like, man, I don't know anything about mortgage. He's like, listen, you start out as a temp. And then eventually, if you do really well, they'll hire you on full time. I start as a temp. I make great money there.

he said you'd be great selling mortgage if you're a stock broker you could be a mortgage broker he's like then you'll be close to your buddies down there right it's when i say down there it's about 50 60 miles south of where we're at so and i didn't have any other options at the time and this guy is offering to let me live in his house on the beach right right and at first i was like is you all right but he's like no he was pretty cool dude and so I eventually I remember talking to Paul about it and he's like yeah the guy's straight you know why not just take take them up on the offer can't hurt so I interviewed I got the job at AB& Amro and I was selling second loans and he locked home equity lines of credit right

and their full-time people do first mortgages every once in a while it's a call center I forgot to mention that it's inbound call so all you're doing is taking calls all day long right and so it's like if you made if i made commission on it i'd be making silly money but they paid me 15 bucks an hour and i've got to prove to them that i'm good enough to work full time right so and it was going great and then like dave would pay would go at the dinner he'd pay i'm thinking this guy's rolling right he must be really doing well but he works in the He didn't, he didn't sell loans. He did the,

uh, quality control, processor. Yeah, in the processing. Okay, he works in the processing department. And so,

but he drove a nice convertible BMW, and his house was right on Arizona street and Hollywood Beach. There's a little two-bedroom place. I mean, it needed some work. but it was a really cool place because you know what they say about real estate the three most important things are location location location and location and this guy's 600 yards from the waves right

right down on the beach so it was a great location so i'm living with my new friend working there and i ended up doing really well i was writing like 250 second loans or home act lines of credit a month. Nice. But again, I'm getting calls and I've got a lot of them are LaSalle or Amy and Amory customers so their information comes up there. And so I'm just filling in the blanks. Some people you had to turn them away. They got 5.25% and they want to refinance at 5 and you have to explain to them with closing. It just doesn't make sense with closing costs. So now in the end, I was thinking, I don't think he want them to do well, but we'll get to that. I mean, I don't think think he wanted me to do well and we'll get that figured out later on i'll get you guys opinion

on that because he had scams that he was working on but i didn't know it at the time right so at a mean amory everybody go out into smokers alley i didn't smoke but i just had to take a break because my back my hip blah blah blah blah and i'd see him talking to people but everybody was dave's friend at the office this guy everybody loved him and i remember one night i think it's may i'm waiting for him at the quarterdeck to have dinner i'm like dude where are you someone car didn't start he stayed down behind to help him he was that dude at the office right that helped the little old ladies he'll help you move he'll stop you move he was that guy and i was like this guy's unbelievable You know, I know nobody's perfect, and he showed some of his other qualities that weren't great, but, you know, he's just a human being like the rest of us.

So I remember he told me that a girl that he used to date, Avalina, he introduced her to Travis. Travis is a mortgage broker, Avalina works in the office near him, and they're good friends, and they work at Abey and Abey and Abey and A, they work at Abey and Abey and A, camera there. And I had mentioned something about watching the Kentucky Derby because that's my thing. I'm in a horse racing. And Dave said, hey, at work, don't mention horse racing. At least don't include me. I'm like, why? He's like, eh, people have, you know, they think it's degenerate gambling, whatnot. He's like, so please don't, don't say anything about me and horse racing and whatnot. He's like, just tell him you go antiquing. I'm like, there's no chance I'm going to tell anybody I'm going antiquing. Right. But he's like, well, just keep my name out of it. I thought

that was weird. And people don't want to give gamblers money. Right. To invest. Exactly. But Avelina would give Dave like 300 bucks and he'd go to the antique shows and bring her back 400. I would later find out that was what was going on. Right. So he's building up trust with the people at work. like, hey, I'm hitting this antique show. If you guys want to invest, and he paid them all back and then some. They made a nice little score with him. So he's building credit with all these people at work. Now, I don't know this.

I just think it's Travis and Avalina. But I just remember he was really upset when I said, it's Kentucky Derby, because that same week's my birthday. That's like my favorite week of the year. And I just remembered, wow, that's the first. first time I saw him kind of get mad at me. I was like, I was like, all right, bro. Just, I'm not going to tell him I'm going antiquing.

Right. So, it worked going fine. I'm doing well. I'm progressing there. I remember one day he had a Friday off and my car wouldn't start. And he said he was going antiquing. Right. And I was like, all right, knock yourself out.

I'll see you later. meet at the bar, you know, something like that. And I called my uncle and he's like, I'll come down, jump you. And he's got to drive like 45 miles. He's the only person I could find. One of the lifeguard friends of ours that we play poker with at night says, hey, I'll give you a jump start. So I called my uncle back and said, hold off.

He said, I'm still going to meet you. Meet me at Pep Boys. We've got to get your new battery. The weather turns hot. Batteries go bad. So it's turn off, jump start. but when I turn the car off, when I turn the car off, wouldn't restart, needs a new battery.

I drive, meet my uncle, I come back. And in Florida, in the East Coast, you have intercoastal waterways. You've got to go over the bridge to get back, because we live, you know, the ocean side of the intercoastal. And I remember driving by Dania Highlight because that was just the way back to the house.

And I saw Dave's car sitting there at like 11 o'clock in the morning. Okay. And I thought, that's weird. Maybe his antiquing got done early. But for a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants.

Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. What's he doing there? Now, they show simulcast racing from Australia and Anglin and all that. So I'm like, oh, that guy's junking out betting the ponies. Right. So when I called him later, he pretended like he was still antiquing. I was like, when we say antiquing, we mean... I mean, like, going, buying antiquing.

So you think he's really going antiquing? I thought antiquing was code for, I'm at the races. Exactly. So when you say antiquing, you're saying he really think he was going antiquing? He was trying to tell me he was antiquing. I'm thinking he's going to the racetrack. I don't care. Right.

My problem, what there was, I caught him in a lie. Right. You don't need to lie to me. Tell me, yeah, dude, I'm betting Royal Ascot. It's showing it. Yeah. Great. There's no reason to lie to me.

And I just thought that was funny that he's trying to sell one over on me on a Friday that he didn't have to go to work. And you're living with him. Yeah, and I'm living with him. And I just thought that was really odd. Okay. Because he finally came up with the story. Oh, no, I did go antique, you know.

Because what he would say he would do, his brother has, Ken Srail, has an antique in stamp company. So it's one of those things he knows all about it, living vicariously through his brother. So giving his brother's line out there to people, like he's an expert at it. And I'm sure Dave grew up. He knows the antique

business a little bit. We did have some pieces where he had some pieces in the house there. He was like, don't set your drink on that table. That's worth about $1,000. Right. No, I was like, oh, you know. So he knew his stuff. And so, but he didn't need to lie to me when all he had to say was, yeah, I'm done, I got done antique, you know, looking at antiques because what are you saying he was doing was he would go to these sales and he knew rich, wealthy people that were looking for something.

So if he find the piece, he would just play middleman and broker it and make a couple hundred dollars. So that's what he was doing when Avalina was giving him $300. He was just going to the racetrack and just, even if he lost, he was just giving. or more money to build up credit but what he told them he's doing is he's buying pieces and flipping them basically right so when i say antiquing like flipping antiques to make money okay so that was the only really thing that made me hesitate early on he did the same thing for my parents my parents gave me a thousand bucks he said yeah i've got some some antiques that i'm going to go

buy in miami and he left one day came back said here's 1400 bucks for your mom and dad you know i was like wow that's an easy way to make 40% on your money pretty fast and again that builds credibility and so you know he would give me grief about the music that i listened to and i just like this guy named josh rouse because i met him but i like van hailing and you too and those are my bands but he wanted to play counting crows but i remember he would just needle me like let's listen to josh rouse let's you know just make fun so it's not like he was perfect Mr. Cool, he wouldn't be a goofball. He could be a douchebag, right?

And he could act like a douchebag, but then I was like, hey, I remember saying, hey, at least I'm the one, the metrosexual guy, everybody's questioning about. And he goes in his room and he comes out, this is Jen. That's my ex-fiance. She died of cancer. And I felt like a shit back. Is it true? I doubt it.

But I mean, he's definitely got his... But at the time, I'm like, oh, he's got pictures ever. He's got a whole story about her. And I'm like, oh, I can't believe I did that. So he's got his con game down. I'm like, oh, Dave, put your foot in your mouth. I remember I walked outside. And he's like, bro.

He's like, you're a dick, but it's okay, man. He's not the first one. Hey, as long as you're not going to come, come hop in my bed at night, I don't care. You know, right. So we just played a dude, you know, we're playing it off. I said, I just, you know, we got all these hot chicks around here. He's like, man, I just can't get, I can't get Jen out of my head. And I said, I understand.

You poor tortured soul. Let me invest in some antiques. And what's crazy is I had been engaged July of 2002. spent a good seven grand at Wilderness Lodge and 20 days later I was unengaged and that's because I loved her dearly we just weren't in love. Right. And you know if I hadn't proposed

we'd probably still be dating. You know, as one of those things we just had to do something and just cut the cord and be done. She and I are still dear friends. But so I was, it was kind of weird. I had always had a serious girlfriend but I was kind of playing the field and I'm in a new territory and it was just kind of of weird. In the bar rats, that's not really my scene there because there's plenty of girls would be intoxicated. And Dave's like, bring one home. I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that.

It's just, that's never been my deal. And I was like, why don't you bring one home? And then, you know, that's kind of what precipitated the whole thing. So he explains to me back in Cleveland, he got engaged, this high school sweetheart Jen developed cancer. and just he took care of her as she went downhill. And so he came to Florida, worked on a fishing boat, and just needed a new break. And I was like, you know, that was six years

ago, but it was still obviously really bothering him. So, I hadn't mentioned my buddy, Matt, who I went to college with. And he had Section 8 apartments and houses, and he bought stuff. And he's like, you know, as a senior

management at A.B.N. Amro, we've got a bunch of foreclosures. He said, Matt would have to be partners with me. But we got a whole portfolio foreclosures, and we get first dibs on them. And so I get him on the phone with my college. Not exactly how it works, but okay. Yeah, well. But you don't know any better.

I didn't know any better at the time. And he's got the appraisals on company letterhead. We go and look at the houses. Right. He's like, here's one in Pembroke Pines. It's a 2-2. You know, I think the company's got 38 invested into it. If we, you know, so I didn't know any better.

And I'm talking to Matt. And Matt's one of those guys. He did well for himself, but he thinks he's smarter than he is. Right. And his brother and I used to go, hey, Matt, we've given you our knowledge. You've chose to disregard it. So good luck. You know, he's one of those guys.

So, anyway, Matt ends up sending him like 30 grand. But I really didn't stay that in tune with that. I just knew that Matt had bought a couple houses and they were looking at a third. Now, understand, I go to the racetrack with this guy all the time, but he's not whipping out five, ten grand. That's something my baseball buddies do. you know he's just he's betting pretty moderately here but I do remember

him playing a pick six and he lost in the last race and the look on its face was like someone died like he really needed the horse to win I was like oh man and come to find out it was like if he would hit it would have been like

two or three hundred thousand that would have cleared a lot of his troubles right and so but you know I didn't know it at the time but he really needed that money and he was pretty salty on the ride home and i never really saw that side of him he was just really angry and frustrated but you know being a guy that likes a gamble hey i understand that and i just thought that was hey just had some bad luck at the racetrack right but what his problem is is his time's running out and he's you know we'll get to it but

His time's running out. He's got to come up with some serious money soon here. So there wasn't too much more to tip me off, but I finally started thinking, this just doesn't make sense. Remember when you said you were at the bank and the bank guy said, I can't put my finger on it,

but something's not right here. And you said, well, I'm sure it will come to you. Yeah. So I was kind of... It's just your intuition. It's just my intuition just told me something was really off. And you know what the main thing was? He wouldn't...

I didn't go in his room. And when you peaked in there, it was a pig sty. And people that do well normally take care of their stuff. Right. Now, I can... Well, they typically have a... You typically need to have an organized mind. Yes.

In order to be an organized person and be able to... You can fake it. Right. But. you can't fake it all the time if it's just not true to your nature like very very well said met his mattress looked like he hadn't washed his sheets in three years it was that it had like the sweat stains on right i'm like oh my gosh that looks like a prison cell and i'm no neat freak but i started rebelling from him like making up my bed every day and just trying to push you the

other way you know trying to be like hey if girls ever come back here are you going to bring one in that room. Right. And so we would play, have poker games at night on the weekends. There was this place called Mulvaney's, a beach bar we would go to. And he would pay every time, Matt. And I was like, dude, I'm not your girlfriend. Right. You know, and I grew up with a father that always picked up the

check. And so it's just my nature. If I'm taking a check out, even if we're on the friends, I'm paying. I'm just paying. it's just that's the reality I'm paying you know I'm old school like that it's just what it is so and it just I just remember thinking this is weird so one Saturday I'm at home mail goes through the slot and it's his Bank of America statement I opened it totally inappropriate but anyway what is that you know what looks you, and I feel bad. I feel bad.

Nobody feels worse about this than me, but that fucker was thick. I did feel bad, but he's got my, my buddy Matt, money for $30,000. 30 grand, and Matt just told me, I'm giving him another 15, and I'm like, I don't know, dude, hold off, make sure these first couple deals go through. What are you giving him more money for? Right. so I opened up and I figured hey I'm a little sketchy myself I'll glue it back together make it look good

like it wasn't open yeah or it didn't show up yeah yeah you're missing yeah I have a couple things not show up here too yeah mom and dad's credit card when you're a kid oh this must my statement that goes bye bye right yeah kids don't do that but so I looked he got the money from Matt it didn't go to the bank

it would withdraw withdraw withdraw withdraw right but I didn't say anything to him because I thought how would I know maybe he and the vice president of the bank or put one over on Matt yeah he's partners in the deal but they're pocketing their pockets up front

right so you don't exactly I don't exactly how they made the arrangement but I kind of know and I remember were in August and we started getting some really bad rainstorms

and there were some hurricanes in 2005. There was Charlie, there was Katrina and Wilma later on and my grandma wasn't staying in her place in Lighthouse Point and I remember Dave called, I was staying up there I would spend a lot of nights

up there because I started seeing this chick and it was kind of to get away from him I kind of had my fill with him. Now, I'll be the first to tell you, he's an amazing dude to hang out with. He's a lot of fun. He's very charismatic, and that's why people like him. My buddy at AB and Amro that taught me the mortgage business, Kevin Goodnow, thought, that guy's shady. There's something about him I don't like, and he's the only person in the whole office that thought Dave was shady. What's weird was, Dave would say, I don't like that guy, Kevin.

I was like, Kevin's taught me the mortgage business better than anybody. And Kevin ended up getting hired on full time. That's what I'm trying to do. So, anyway, that storm, Dave asked if he could come stay with, you know, because he wanted to get rained on in her place because there was a hole. I forgot to tell you about the house. The one we live in. Right.

Dave says he owns it. The, he said, You'll see the landlord show up, but he's got to deal with me and he showed me the documents. He's buying it. The landlord's going to get rid of the wife. And he had told a bunch of people that. He's going to leave his wife. Okay.

And he's going to sell the place, the rental property. So he doesn't own it. So he doesn't own it. But he told me that he owned it. Right. He said, you might see the landlord come by and do some maintenance. But it's all a show because he's going to leave his wife soon. And I was too stupid to not figure out

that that was just a garbage story. Okay, then you don't own it. You're just leasing it. Well, exactly. I don't understand what. Exactly. Okay. And, you know, if Travis was here,

they might be able to say, I don't remember the exact story. He was basically, the landlord was selling it out behind the wife's back, basically. So he was going to buy it up. Yeah. Plans with like a lease with an option to buy or something. option something like that so and i remember it was kind of weird when he stayed with me that night

up in lighthouse point but you know it just because i think he knows that i got into his bank statement okay but he's not going to approach me on it and i was wondering if he's going to say something to me i have no problem talking about it right because i would just said oh yeah dude i'm sorry i opened it up i didn't you know i don't look at anything i just ripped it you know that was going to be my answer. Right. So, and I mentioned Kevin, Kevin caught me, taught me everything about the mortgage business. When he got hired full time, he sat next to Travis and Avalina. Now, as I mentioned earlier, Dave introduced Travis and Avalina. They used to have another girl. I think her name was Rachel, that the four of them would hang out. Unfortunately, she committed suicide. And this is a true

story because there's a plaque dedicated to her down at the beach okay and so those three of them would go to the bar on her birthday and and talk and I wasn't invited and I remember thinking dang man you guys can leave me home but

Dave said we're going to talk about Rachel and so really what they were talking about was hey when were we going to get our money back but Dave used dad as an excuse but so And this was the kind of the final nail in the coffin as far as what I was seeing with this guy.

Now, you got to remember, this guy walked in everybody, hey, Dave, people love this dude. Right. At lunch, if you go out, he's picking up the tab. With Jennifer's money or with Tom's money. Yeah, exactly. Or Bill's money. Exactly. You could be a big shot.

I was a big shot with the bank's money. Absolutely. I'd love to that sounds like a lot of fun that be fun to have be large and in charge so he said

I remember I got a first mortgage got a call in it's a first now what I'll do Matt is I'll do the whole application and then I'll be like who wants to get a nice commission so I'm going to give it to Kevin my buddy Kevin good now taught me everything about the mortgage business Kevin sits right next to Travis

Kevin's like dude I got I can't I got two I'm closing two deals at once Travis when I first it's closed you just got it you know he's like oh good that night Dave says to me Travis really

unlike you dude and be careful don't be flirting with Avalina he's really jealous and I'm many things Matt, I don't flirt with other dudes' wives, girlfriends, that's not my thing. Right. I went to a really small high school, and I was a hopeless romantic, and I'd think this girl's cute, and then I heard Johnny talking about how he made out other last week, and I was just like,

uh, instantly. So they didn't quit making girls. There's plenty of them out there. Right. And Evelyn wasn't my type. I never flirted with her. That's just, and Dave's like, oh yeah. Well, Dave doesn't want me talking to certain people in the office.

Right. The other people that have invested with them, buying antiques for them. Yeah, that's what I would later figure out. And then he was like, I don't know what you did to pick piss off Tommy, but boy, you know, I was like, dude, he can't take a joke. I made it, but that's another guy needs to keep me with. away from right so there was some of the things there but you know in the back of your mind you

it doesn't make sense right and your conscience is telling you that that you know that's garbage so I'm going to join my buddy Billy and Kurt we're going to go to the Jersey Shore for Labor Day all right and like I said I've kind of spent time away they haven't made me full time, even though I'm either first or second in second mortgages or home equity lines of credit, I'm really doing well at the company there, but for whatever reason, I've not been offered a full-time position. So I'm just going to take Friday off and they'll be gone Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. And I get up to Jersey Shore and I remember I talked to Dave on the phone.

And I said, yeah, we're going to Atlantic City. He's like, let me send you some money. I'm like, if you're going to offer me money and I like to gamble, it's like, yeah, he sent me 500 bucks and said, let me know if you need more. Don't tell Carol. Right. And I was like, okay, all right, dude. I was like, did you make a big story?

He's like, yeah, I hit the superfect at the, you know, he made up some story. So, hey, sent me 500 bucks. And I were thinking, man, I should have. asking for another 500 after, you know, that's nothing. So, had a great weekend in Atlantic City, went to Wildwood, just kind of, it was a met some really cute girl from Westchester. Then I kind of lost her in the crowd as the bars closed, like, they take the drinks out of your hand at 2 a.m. And I couldn't find her. And so, I remember we went and saw the hangover that

weekend, just a really great weekend with my college buddies. And I'm thinking, that was great. So I fly back home and I remember I was driving down from my parents' house and I can either go right to work or I can go to the house first. And I thought, I'll just go to the house first, maybe change the shirt, you know, and I get there. And you just have that feeling when you open the door, something's different. Oh, Dave has packed up all his stuff and left. And there were betting slips all over the floor. Because in those days, just so, you know, nowadays, you don't need to keep your gambling

slip, your bet stubbs. They track everything through player cards or online, you know, because if you cash over the IRS limit, you might have to pay taxes on it. Right. So Dave had serious IRS troubles I would later find. I'd find these notes from the IRS. So he was, I mean, he had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of betting slips. And he's gone.

And on my bed was a note. And on the kitchen counter, there was a note for Travis and Avalina. And I thought, great. What's going on YouTube? Ardap Dan here, Federal Prison Time Consulting. Hope you guys are all having a great day. If you're seeing and hearing this right now, that means you're watching Matt Cox on Inside True Crime.

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All right, guys. See you soon at the end of the video. Peace. I'm out of here. Back to you, Matt. Before I went on that vacation, Dave kind of said it all out there for me. He said, listen, as you know, my brother has an antique and stamp business. He said, the government, you know, people are doing more and more email.

So their stamp business is really going down. So they sell all these odd lot stamps. at a discount what do you mean when you say stamp business I thought you meant like antique stamps or specialty he's saying that

the government has some you know they print so many stamps but they can't sell them all okay and then some of them you know they sell them in lots

and you'd get seven off a roll here and through the years they just pile up so you know you can buy it so you can buy stamps at a massive at a massive you know bulk

you've got to take two cents stamps and three cents you got to take whatever they give you but you're going to get it at a massive discount and he had said that he and his brother they've done this before and it takes a little while to get your money back but companies will buy those stamps from you because you're going to sell it at a discount to them right and he said you know my brother's in with you know he's been buying so many stamps from the government he's got inroads there And he said, you know, you've got some friends that have some money. That's a great way to make 30% on your money. He said, and he was, you know, my brother and I take a small fee.

And obviously, we've got to make it good for the corporations or are they just going to buy it from the government. So we've got to offer them a discount. But there's a nice spread there for a nice profit. And he pitched me that before I went on vacation. And I was like, well, show me the deal. Show me how it's done. And if you show me the, you know, I got to see some things before I'm going to go talk to one of my ballplayer buddies or somebody I know.

I'm not just going to take your word for it. And I think he was probably heartbroken that I didn't, that I didn't bite on that. Hand over 20 grand. Yeah. To invest in a stamp. I think he was looking like, I think he was looking for like a hundred grand. Because in the little note he left me, said I was hoping you'd end up being my. partner.

Partner. It doesn't sound like that. That's it. And he said, you know. So you said, you still at that point, you were like, this is just before you went on vacation and you were like,

eh, I just can't really. It sounds great. Sounds like an interesting idea. And the way, and the way he sold it is, listen, the government has made so many stamps and so many people use email now.

They're never going to be able to sell all these stamps. And they're still printing them, you know, You know, you've got the forever stamps, and then you've got seven cents stamps, 15%. There's such a backlog. They've got warehouses full of stamps. And it said, we have companies that will buy them, but, you know, they might have to piece them together.

But if we can buy them for 40, 50, 60 cents in a dollar, then go to the, you know, IBM or somebody that still sends out mail, you know, and packages it up for them. Hey, yeah, they can buy it at a discount. So it makes sense. So the deal made. me but I hear yeah I hear yeah I hear you again when he told me that I'm not thinking anything but he wants me to talk to people that I'm just not gonna go and you remember I'm gonna ruin your credibility I'm a former stockbroker I never asked Paul one time to

manage his money right and that's what I do right and when I say manages money I would talk about putting his money in a Schwab where he could see it online and he would just pay me quarterly because that's what I did at a company Atlanta capital management that's I brought all my assets to them and they paid me quarterly and I hadn't even pitched him on that right so if I'm not because I'm more about friendship than worrying about getting your business right and I think that was kind of so that's why I say I wondered did he want me to fail at work so I'm you know I owe him because I'm living in his house and he's paying the rent. I don't have to pay rent.

Right. Was it always that you were always kind of, he was always being set up for. Yeah. And he wrote in this note to me that I was hoping you'd be my partner and I tried to get you. So you opened the letter. So you got back. You got the letter. You opened up the letter. And I'm like, wow, this dude's gone. You know, I was just kind of shocked. Right. And understand, he'd lived there for six years. Right. This wasn't just some short con. and all of a sudden he's gone. He had made friendships with people at work and people around the neighborhood

that he had to pick up and leave on. And I know that he didn't want to leave. And he probably, you know, he didn't want to con these people out of money, but his desire for gambling money, I guess, was so much stronger. He, you know, pulled off a con here and there. And I think he just probably were.

himself in a big hole then he came up with these other business ideas now you've got people that had given him money well anyways we'll get that I drive to work and I've got to tell Travis and Avalina because they left Dave left me and know what did the letter say to you what did your letter say it's basically said um I'm sorry but I got to take off I was hoping you'd be my partner but I don't own the house That was B.S. Okay. I didn't have a fiancé that died.

I got in the same problems in Ohio. And I just can't keep myself out of trouble. You're a good dude. Basically, I'm sorry about Matt's money. You know, basically. My bad. My bad. oh shit and I'm like and it was just you know I'm just and we're currently we're currently

being evicted on you might want to find someplace else to live he's like I'm sorry to do this to you but I didn't pay September rent right so I'm like oh great just moving sucks in it of itself but so that was the least my concerns and that but I still don't know how much that he said but they left the note for Travis and Avaline and I gave it to them and I heard screaming around the corner now I'm at work I'm sitting at my desk Travis is down there Kevin's down there and they're screaming they're yelling and there but there's other people yelling oh okay so now it's spreading and it's spreading right and then the management calls me into an office and I pull out my letter and I was like this is what he

left me and I'm I gave that letter up I think I made a comment copy of it and send it to Matt because I got to call my college roommate who by the way tells me oh I did send that other 15 grand to him that's 45 $45,000 I've given Dave and what kills me is dude where's that $45,000 you gamble that all yeah I was sitting next to you the whole time it sure didn't look like it so well I was going to say the the other thing is you know you're like oh he didn't want to up and leave but you're also thinking that he has the same emotional attachments to other people that you do. Yes.

You know? Like there's, yeah. You don't know that he may have been like, who get to start over. On the road, baby. It may have been a, well,

I'm thinking that he probably had 20 grand on him when he left. Okay. Or 30? Because he wanted to send me another 500 bucks. If he's hurting for cash, he's not going to. Yeah, why are you? Why are you sending me money?

Right. You know? Because Lord knows he could have, I wasn't going in on that stamp deal. And I made that, he made a pretty hard pitch at me. And I was like, just show me how it's done. So I can go to other people. Show me where you're buying it?

Show me what I've got to see it. I'm not going to take anything. I didn't do any cold calling when I was a stockbroker. You know why? Because I hang up on cold callers. Right. They annoy me. So you can go, I'm Dave Will Howard, J.T. Marlin.

You got to get a boom. I do. I got to have a relation. with you. I truly believe people do business with who they like. That's why Dave Thrail was able to get absconded all that money because people liked him. You know what? So you know what's so funny is that when I was in Tampa and on the run and I was flipping properties and people saw, you know, I'm always paying for everything. I'm always, you know how many people would come to me and say, hey, listen, I could, you know, if I gave you 20 grand, like,

like, could I, you know, what could I get back? And I would be like, you know, and this is the thing, like, you know, it was like, like, one, I'm not going to rip you off, but two, I know that everything I'm doing is illegal. Right. And I don't want to have wires from you coming to me. And then the other thing was, it was like, okay, it's not worth it for you to lend me money. For one thing, I'm borrowing money very inexpensively from the bank. right I have plenty of money like you're 20 grand if I've got 300,000 in the bank and I've got you're 20 grand like what am I getting really in the grand scheme of things I'm borrowing money at 6% 5% yeah I don't like what are you going to get you're you're just one more phone call

headache that I got to worry about right like like you're 20 grand I can just pull 20 grand out my own bank count and it costs me nothing you're saying if I give you 20 would you give me back 2200 you or 20,000 and give it plus 2,000 like no yeah I tell you what you're a better man but people are constantly offering me money yeah and it's like it's crazy it's like this is this is not and I think that's the same thing your buddy realized I'm paying for everything I look like I'm doing well everybody likes me everybody trusts me mm-hmm they're gonna offer me money if I come to them and ask them for money they're gonna give me the money oh yeah and you know he created the fear of loss you know like and if you don't have it don't matter but I got to get it

by Monday, you know, and, you know, you've always had cash on them, you know. I had a buddy in prison who said, remember he said, people are more concerned about losing out on a good deal than they are at protecting their, their money. Yeah. They don't, what they don't want, they don't want to have $100,000 and find out that they could have it to you and made 150 than to keep their 100,000, even though it's a risk. They're more willing to risk it than protect it. And he was like, and that was the big thing was he played up on that.

You know, I've got this guy invested, this guy invested, this guy invested. I've got one more spot, but I'm talking to somebody else. And they, I'll do it. It's like they're not asking me any questions. They don't have any proof. They don't have anything. They just don't want somebody else to get their investment. When we did my family's business, we did club sales, public or quasi-private golf country clubs

would turn private, and it was deposit membership. So when you resign your membership, you get all your money back, it's a liability, not a credit for the club. My dad came up with it. It was a great program. Some country clubs, you join pay $100,000, you leave, you get $20,000, if that, if you're lucky. So it was a deposit membership, but they would have price increases in,

People would be waiting there and be like, hey, July 1st, the price goes from $25,000 to $35,000. And most these people are really wealthy, and they're like, I don't know. Like, that's fine. But if you want to play golf at the club, it's 30, it's going to be $35,000. It's 25 right now. Right. So fear of loss, it's big thing. And I love what you said in your other video.

You make that sales pitch and you shut up. All right. My dad told me the same thing your dad said. Yeah. The next person that speaks loses. Yeah. You'll talk yourself out of a deal. You'll say, oh.

And then we had a problem with guys that would keep talking like, dude, you've already sold them on it. Shut up. So, anyway. Screaming at the office. Screaming at the office. And people kept coming up. Did Dave's real really leave?

And I'm just sitting at my deck. I'm like trying to do the second mortgage. Like, yeah. Give me 10 minutes. I don't know. I'll tell you all about it. And then the vice president comes over and said, Dave, you know me from Adam. Can I have a word with you? Do you know what happened in my $100,000?

Oh, my God. What's crazy was how... Did it keep getting worse and worse? How Dave sold me on the sell to Matt was he was doing what was called Six Sigma. It was some type of club. I'd never heard of it. But I would see him sit down with the vice president. of the bank. Now, I shouldn't say the bank, the mortgage company, but this was the major

call center for, you know, a Dutch-based company that owns LaSalle Bank and some of the other banks in the United States. So it's a pretty big deal. It's like the fourth or fifth largest bank in the world, and he's, I would see Dave have meetings with these vice presidents. So I knew, you know, he was kind of a big wig, maybe not at work, but reputation-wise. So it didn't shock me that he would talk to maybe a vice president and say, hey, let's sell some of these foreclosures. Right. Greed is what runs society.

Even if it wasn't on the up and up, that didn't bother me about that deal with my friend Matt. Right. You know what I'm saying? What I really didn't, you know, I'm thinking, well, they can sell for it. It's their properties. And if the guy's the head of the real estate division or has control of that, why can't they sell some?

Obviously, it was a scam, but it was on A.B. an amoral letterhead. Right. And my friend Matt was able to get his money back. But not the people in the office. Travis and Avelina what they lose? Lost $35,000 to Dave.

Now, what Dave would do, and if you go on davestrails.com, there's what's called a, he would write a Kognovic note. I've never heard the term Kognovic. Okay. But I think psychologically, nobody else had. Instead of saying, This is a made up word? I owe Matt Cox

35,000, but a Kognovic note that kind of made it more official, you know what I'm saying? It's Latin. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to fuck you out of your money. I mean.

You're, yeah, hold on to your wallet. And so, and there is a guy that lost five, another guy lost two. And there, some people were like, I had a girl tell me, I loaned him $2,000 last month.

said he pitched me on some stamp deal. My husband, I said, no, I'm not even going to say anything because there were people that really lost a lot of money. So in the note that he leaves to Travis and Avalina, in the end, like, what do you think he got the office in general for? Over 300, close to $400,000. Whoa. Just people in that office.

Okay. And, and the note he leaves to Avalina, he's like, you have the ring that I gave to my fake-ass fiancé. Cut the shit, bro. And you know what bothers me is he's writing this. He's thinking that people are going to miss him. They want their money. Right. But he's still in his mind.

He's sentimental. He's writing a goodbye note. And you can read it on dave'srael.com. It's called letters section. And he's like, I'm going to New York. He said, I'd commit suicide, but in my health, life insurance policy, it's not covered. Like, he feels so bad about what he's done. So you guys could get your money back.

Get your money back. But it doesn't cover it. Let's try. I'm willing to risk it. Yeah. Let's, let's, let's, well, make it look fishy. Yeah. Let's make it look fishy.

We'll just throw a gun button and put someone else's prints on it. Yeah, well, you know, but we'll make it look like a hit and run. Yeah. Go out in the road. Yeah. Sure. We could... I'll run you over with the car.

Right. Let's get that money. Yeah. Let's do the right thing. My vehicle. Do the right thing. Okay. Careless driving, just 50 miles right over the embankment.

Right. It'll be a hit and run. It's accidental death. Your insurance problem is possible. We'll be whole and we'll thank you for that. Yes. Yes. So it's just just people helping people.

It's just the right thing to do. Yeah, absolutely. Do the right thing, Dave. Off yourself. So in his note, he kind of lists in there you know sorry I did this to you because

but your heart picked the right friends don't let this incident think that you know if I these people had to be going I was friends with this guy for five years the lady puts a picture of him in there saying

this man was in my house last Thanksgiving so Avalina's mother makes a whole website Dave Srail the con man and you and I remember my friend Matt was Did you tell her you're coming on here? I'm sorry I told Kevin I don't know Avalina's phone number but I told my friend Kevin

We got to put the website in the description Oh yeah yeah Yeah Yes it did Okay And so They put the website out because they're pissed Yeah

They want the sucker caught Because they went to the police And the police said oh it's civil yeah and that really bothers me it bothers me because i've heard that many times because it's it's fraud like it's not civil and think about this matt i would call kensrail dave's brother just to get some background and he would tell me that yeah it was an insurance company i think it was state farm i'm not positive he did the same thing seven or eight years earlier that's why he had to leave cleveland and his mom and dad paid his debts to make people whole.

And so he left with his tail between his legs and went to Florida and start over. And start over. And he ends up doing the same thing. And Ken said, you know what's funny? Avelina would end up calling, getting the number for Ken's, but Dave happened to walk by. And Ken said, yeah, tell Dave, I said hi. And I guess she was embarrassed because she was, because she wanted to find out where her money. he was so he's just going to call the brother because Dave acts like Ken's in on it yeah yeah and he said

yeah tell Dave to call me and so Ken said yeah I was wondering if he was up to his old tricks because I was getting weird emails to my website but what Dave ended up doing was copying Ken on emails but making up his own Ken Srail that he could you know anybody can start a new right right my brother's Ken Srail uh Ken Srail 11 is at Yahoo.com, and that comes to me. I set the email up. And so that's what he was doing them. These people were pissed.

So I don't understand. There was no brother? There was a brother. There was a brother. There was, the brother didn't know anything about what Dave was doing. Okay. The brothers. I assumed the brother would make new nuts.

He's pissed. His brother's done this all over again and hurt more people. And so I end up talking to Ken's super nice guy. And I, you know, I'm like, I just live with this brother. I was like, your brother's a good guy. If he just would put his tent, he's like, my brother's a smart guy. He just can't help himself.

He's just a scumbag. He just can't get over that. And you've got to figure, they didn't give the stamp deal is what I think he sold all the people in the office on. That didn't happen two years ago. That was recent. So he was actually doing good.

But something happened along the way where he started getting in more debt. I don't understand you're saying what stamp deal. So there's no stamp deal. That's not a real thing. But the con was real. What I'm saying is he'd been at that office for five years. So he just recently got himself into trouble.

So you don't think it was set up for five years. That's why I think this guy, this guy's got some rich friends. Maybe he can help me. Because we'll rip these people off so I can make the people a work hole. Right. You know. And it's important that I keep him in the dark about what's happening

with all these other people. He's thinking he's going to gamble his way out of it. Yeah, yeah. Because like I said that one day when he missed that pick six, he just was devastated. And I've seen him, everybody loses photo finishes, but he was devastated.

Because he's, I mean, because I imagine he probably told him, hey, it's going to take three, four months to unload all the money. But after three, four months,

they were like, where's our money, dude? We gave you the money back in December of last year. Well, it's hard to move, antiques. Yeah, you know, or stamp. Hey, man. We're trying to get the companies. We got to get all the stamps. We got to get them lotted together and store. You know, it's a, but I think he ran out

of excuses. But here's another thing that bothers me about the whole civil and criminal. These people were dealing with somebody at a bank, the fifth largest bank in the world. You thought they did a background check on them. Right. On their own employees. Well, are you saying he had locked up before or he'd had well it was written i think it was in the paper about his shenanigans in ohio okay so i don't know if he'd been arrested or not but i'll call previous employers well i mean maybe maybe they just did a criminal background check nothing came up they're good okay keep going okay that makes sense but and it's not hard to fake a resume you know yeah so who knows that's true so and let's face it they're not paying you anything and it's a part-time like they're

let you work your way up. Right, right. So, Srail ends up going to Texas, and the following spring, Paul, my buddy baseball player, lives in San Antonio, and he calls me and says, hey, you're not going to believe this. Does that guy, that guy, Dave, that you live with, does he bring a big bag of pens to the track with him and wear a bandana? He said, yeah, he's like, he's sitting three feet away from me. So Paul goes to talk to him.

Dave says, I'll be right back. Paul said he went to the bathroom and ran out of the racetrack. Paul's like, dude, I'm not going to turn him in. I just wanted to talk to him. Yeah. You know? So that website ends up going up. And someone finds out Dave's real name.

Apparently he'd been using fake names. He was doing a fake names once he took off. Yeah. His real name is Dave Shrell. Dave Shreel. But he was giving fake names and he was also signing up for like Big Pharma has all these tests. What am I looking for? They're looking for volunteers on a blood, uh, uh, right, to take Medicaid.

Yeah, yeah. I'm saying. They pay you this much. Exactly. And he's taking, so he was doing. He's got, he's got five of them going. All kinds of can't believe in his fucking blood. What I went through is, when we went to this room.

We, we, he'd done them before. And, you know, Travis and Avalina would later come to the house. Well, I, I kind of blown it. If you read the end of the letter, he left Travis and Avalina. Right. After he BS is about, I'm, you know, the suicide. Poor, poor me. Poor, poor me.

But I'm going to use my talent for good and trust your heart, Avalina. You didn't do bad picking friends in me. You found a great man and Travis. And at the very end there, and he said, oh, and as far as David, I just don't have the words. And what he means is that guy, David and his mom, that he stole $300,000 from. That was their life savings.

He couldn't leave him a letter. Which one was David? There was another guy in the office. Oh, okay. I didn't know about it either until I read the letter. $300,000 he stole from a guy and his mom. I went outside the office. He was sobbing in his car.

Dave was. This guy, David. He's got to go home and tell his mom. That all our money is gone. Wow. No, we can't arrest a guy for screwing. Because here's my thing. If I went into the bank and I lied to the bank and they gave me money and I'd never paid

them up back, that's fraud. Right. So because you're, so because you're not a license organization. Because he borrowed money from somebody They're saying Oh, that's civil Put it on this note saying I'm the money from you

Writes a note saying I'm a con man What's the dude? And admits to it What is the difference between me borrowing 300,000 from Make of America And then writing them a note saying hey My bad

I just took your money. Go fuck yourself It's the same thing. I still have a promissory note So if we screw banks You go to prison But if we screw The American people

Go fuck It's go fuck yourself Go find a lawyer. Now, lucky for my buddy Matt, I found a great attorney down in Miami that's a friend of the family, and he got Matt all his money back. How? We sued AB and Amro. Okay.

Because it was on their letterhead. It was their employees. He presented it. He sent the appraisals. Yeah, yeah. But what about the other guy? 300,000, Dave. Nothing.

They didn't get any money back. You told me you got his money. I was thinking about Dave. Yeah, I feel, it's terrible. That's why I'm sitting here. Because there's a big injustice. The people that on your venture, I don't think, what's, when it's all said and done, the banks, they have insurance policies against fraud.

Right. Or at least they've built it into their business model. It's the business model. Absolutely. Like they're a certain percentage of interest rates and everything else goes just towards fall. You said there was one guy that was really mad at you. I had, so I actually have like four victims. but the total I owe all victims is about 30 grand and I didn't take the money like you've got a doctor that paid like 11 or 12,000 dollars to an attorney turn attorney they all paid for attorneys by the way the same thing CPA paid for an attorney same thing as a lawyer that lent money he was a hard money hard money lender he also paid a lawyer he paid like 25 3500 like you know and then there was like one other person it was the same thing

they paid like 2,500, 35. The most was the doctor that lost money. And yeah, he was so furious that he couldn't be. He was like, oh, he couldn't even come to, because they wanted him to get up and say, because he'd lost the most money. I'd have to hire an attorney, I did this? Did he lose his life savings?

No, no. You know what I'm saying? But that's my point. Yeah. And he's that mad. I know, but you know, some guys are so. Of course. They don't like to get over on.

Right. But it's just how do we allow this to happen? even if they don't lock Strayal up and say, we're going to garnish your wages to pay these people off. Right, at least something coming in. So they get some money back. Yeah, $500 a month. They're getting something, but nothing.

It's just. And the thing is, if they grabbed him, like how hard of a case is that to even make? Once you grab him, you say, here it is, we're charging you with this. You get on probation. You're going to start making payments. That's it. That's not a hard process for the police.

So he goes to Texas. A guy reads Daveshrale. and apparently Dave had a knife on him and the guy confronted Dave now Dave's not a fighter but he pulled the knife out like get away from me that's the only reason he did 30 days in jails because he pulled out a knife pulled a guy called the cops yeah Dave was gone found a new company the the guy talked to a detective the detective found the website davesrail.com they arrested Srail right before he was going to get on an airplane, going to do what, he was working for some company that they used to fly offsite in Texas, but he only did like 30 or 60 days

in jail. And that's it. He goes to Evansville, Indiana, he screws a lady out of a couple thousand dollars. He's repeated this. So in my mind, if we could say, this guy's a scam artist, he's a perfect con man, cons short for confidence. You gain confidence in him. He is a con man.

And if you say he did it in Ohio, he did it in Florida, he did it in Texas, he did it in Indiana, I mean, you've got a pattern from the 90s up to 2015, he's just screwing people. It just hasn't stopped. What's funny to me is that he's getting these jobs at these financial institutions or these institutions where you have access to people's... That's my point. Right. So you would think they would do a little extra.

He's got social security number. You know, yeah, you check, does he have a criminal record? But you've got to be really careful. You got people's social security numbers. You got everything's there. Listen, when you're talking to somebody on the phone and you're getting there, especially back then, back then they're giving it all to you right at the phone. Matt, I would talk about second mortgage with people and I'm like, you're going to have

to give me your social so I can do your credit. Boom. People don't like giving social security at the strangers. over and I don't blame them. Right, but they give it to you. They give it to you. Well, I was going to say, um, the, the thing is, is that, like, I would get on the phone with somebody and ask them all kinds, like, so once they start telling you stuff.

Right. You get them in the pop. They're all in. Like, you know, once they get, date of birth, social security number, where were you born? What's, what state and county were you born? What your mother's made name? Like, you're asking them questions. Like, like, there's no reason for me to ask you some of these questions.

I was wondering how you did that. How do you get on a maiden name? Yeah. Let's have a password just in case, uh, Absolutely. What's your mom's made in name? Yeah. Just for security reason.

Just for security password. What's your mom's made name? Oh, okay. Oh, that's and such. Okay, thank you. It's like, oh, are you serious? Like, I would, like, you could have made something up. Give me your dog's name.

You know, anything. But they give that and then, listen, I would keep, I never had anybody who would stop halfway through. Like, as soon as they give me their social security number, you kicked in the door. Now you're in the house. Right. They're giving you everything. So the ironic thing is.

About three years later, I started getting notices from the IRS that I owed back taxes. And I thought, that's strange. Maybe I hit a $2,000 ticket to the racetrack that I didn't claim on, oh, no. Someone said I made $270,000 a year, who has got $70,000 in taxes. He used your social security? Someone used my Social Security. Who could that be? I thought maybe it was Dave's rail.

Okay. Was it? It wasn't. Oh, that's what I was going to say. But there were, they let go of me at the bank because they felt like I was a distraction at work, even though I was doing a great job and I wasn't full-time, I was still a temp.

They never brought me over. And people were coming up to me. I don't blame them. And to be honest with you, I didn't want to live that far south. You know, it'd be like you going down to Sarasota. It's just too far of a drive, you know, it was too far.

and my friends were all in West Palm Beach and Hollywood, that's a good hour and 15 minute drive. So, but I was still pissed that they gave me my walking papers because I was the top, you know, I was writing a lot of second mortgages, but yeah, people would come up to me. Have you heard anything from Dave? I'm like, listen, you guys know them more than I do.

Yeah, you let them money. Yeah, you didn't let them money. I didn't know well enough to lend them any money. But, you know, like I said earlier, I'm thinking that maybe he was just hoping that I wouldn't work out and I'd be so beholden to him because he was paying for all my meals and food that I would call my rich friends to get him in on the scam. So what happened?

Where do you go? Like, have you heard from, where is he now? So according to the website, he's fishing up in Alaska right now. As a working on like a deck hand? Like a deck hand? Yeah, something like that. like Alaska C what are the crabbers

Deadliest catch Yeah And let me tell you something I grew up on boats I love fishing But A it's way too cold Yeah It's bitter cold up there

And that is a rough job Because They treat you like shit If you're brand new Going out on those boats I was gonna say You borrow money from those guys You're done

Yeah You get keel hauled if you do that Tell me again about those antiques But if you've noticed, if you know anything about deadliest catch, a lot of them get picked up for drugs and fraud, theft, but they can go there to make quick money. Well, maybe that's what he's doing. Maybe Dave's stockpiling money to pay everybody back.

Yeah, I was hoping. I don't think you're giving him credit. Yeah, I was hoping. You know what? I hope the guy hits for a million dollars and sends that guy David. I bet you if he hit for fucking 10 million, he ain't paying those people's shit. I agree. They're never seen a dime.

I was telling Kobe, it's sad because he's such a fun guy to hang out with. There's just some people. They have that magnetic personality. I know a guy named me laugh. I know a guy named Red Bull loved hanging out with him. I wouldn't lend him a dime. I never bought him anything that I didn't expect to absolutely not get it back. Yeah, it's like some guys I went to college with.

They're great to hang out with. But you wouldn't let your sister date him. Right. That's exactly. Um, Yeah, I, I, that's insane. I knew, so I'm gonna, I, I think, did I, have I ever told you about Jim Keegan? All right. So I'm going to tell you a story right now, because this reminded me of Jim Keegan.

Jim Keegan's a guy, um, that I met in federal prison. Jim Keegan was in federal prison for, um, for like, he, he was. He had embezzled some client money, right? So it was like wire fraud. No big deal, small. He got a minor sentence, maybe three years, maybe four years. And so he'd embezzled some money. And admittedly, he said he did do it.

He was, you know, drinking and gambling, whatever the reason was. He's like, and he had already paid the money back, but he, the prosecutors, they hated him because he was a lawyer. He was a lawyer and he fought a criminal, state criminal cases. And he'd won at trial so many times that they, that when they got him, they went to the U.S. attorney. And when they actually found this out about the misappropriative funds in his law office, they just hammered. And they just wouldn't take a deal. I'm trying to give him 15 years because he'd beat the state so many times he used to represent a drug dealers and gang members. And he'd gotten them off on murder charges.

And so they just, they wanted him gone. So anything, even commingling funds, anything that you can get, they're going to get him. Anything. And so he ends up in federal prison and he was like, yeah, I'm going to get out and I'm going to I'm going to go to work for my brother. His brother was a lawyer. He's like, I'm going to go work for my brother. And I was like, oh, are you doing any legal work here? He's like, no, I don't do any legal work at all for anybody. And he'd come from another prison, by the way. So another, he'd be a low to low transfer because he said I want to be in Florida and this and that. And people were constantly like, you were a lawyer on the street. He was like, you were a lawyer on the street. He was like, Like, yeah, but I did criminal law, state. I haven't done, I don't do federal. And they would come to him. And can you look at my case?

Can you look at my case? You go, well, look at it. I'll look at it. But I'm not going, I can't do anything. So do inmates have their paperwork on them for the most part? No, no, for the most part, they don't. For the most part, they get their sentence. They just don't do anything.

All right. But some guys think they, they can get over. They can get something off. Get some time knocked off. They gave me an enhancement for a gun I didn't have. They gave me 10 years. So it's worth fighting. If you can get the enhancement off, you got 15 years, 10 knocks off.

you've already done two you got five years you know you got a five year sentence plus gain time like you could be going to halfway house if you win that right enhancement right and and so kegan was like okay cool cool cool um yeah i'll take a look at your stuff and he'd look at it he'd go look i mean i looked at it um i talked to my brother about it he came to see me and he did have a brother who owned a law firm in orlando and he said i talked to my brother about it like you probably have a good case my brother doesn't do we both do state uh he does more civil than i i i did so yeah and so people would and he would tell people like look you know i do you can have your family look me up and they would look him up and sure enough this dude was in the paper all the fucking time jim kegan just won

this murder trial this murder trial like you could literally there were probably eight different articles about him winning murder i'm going for murder winning the cases now by the way winning a murder case is one of the easiest case murder is one of the hardest thing to prove because of reasonable doubt you know you don't want to put some you'd rather let a guilty man walk free

than lock up an innocent man right like it's not and let's face it a lot of times it's super circumstantial like you're dead and you know you're dead and then you really it's up the prosecutor to prove that I was there that I didn't like there's no witness it's so scary you could literally

go and pick something up a hat that you might like and then a person that's a victim buys that hat takes it home and with touch DNA now they put you together with the guy your DNA was found in this murder and you're like no I just picked that

right but let's say that that's one of those things that he would just weird circumstantial things that just happen in life and that gets very scary there's a lot of people that have been locked up that were innocent and now DNA is proving them innocent

right well that's something totally different what we're talking about is that this guy got him off on murder like he was getting off people on murder so they didn't like him they sent him to prison um so here's what i'm saying is that people because he didn't want to do legal work people are constantly coming to him begging him to do legal work because they're looking at he's a lawyer and he's great he's a great lawyer and because they're looking at the newspaper they see that he's been super successful so his story makes sense people start giving him money like bro he's like look honestly i can't. I mean, he's like, look, I'll do your case for you. I'm going to work, but I'm, I'm leaving here in like eight months to a year. I'll be in the halfway house and I'm going to be working at my brother's law office. You can have your family look up my brother too. They would look them up. Sure enough, there's a law office. His brother's name is like, whatever, Bill Keegan or Tom Keegan. And they're like, oh, wow. Like, it's a pretty odd name. Right. And so, and people would see his brother come. He would also sometimes call his brother and say, can you pull this guy's docket sheet.

So think about it, I can order my docket sheet, but it's going to take me two weeks to get it, maybe three weeks. But he would say, give me your docket number or your criminal number, okay, and then he'd come back two hours later and he'd have a printout where his brother pulled it. Like, you're like, wow, he really works at a fucking law firm. So this is his brother. This guy's connected. He could get research done.

So he would say, look, I'll take your case, but honestly, I mean, it's like $3,500. I mean, I can't charge you. Well, you're in prison. Right. You know, like, I can work on it. And if I don't finish it by the time I, by the time I leave, I'll be at my brother, my brother's law office. So I'll finish it while I'm there. So guys are like going to their parents, going to their family, coming up with the $3,500, they're putting it on his books.

Or he'd say, send it to my brother. They're sending it to his brother, his brother's cat, you know, personal, not to his, to the law firm. But they're sending him $1,500. Like, hey, put $1,000 in my book. Look, send my brother $1,500, that's $2,500, or whatever. So he's, even though he's like, no, no, no, they're begging to give him money, begging their families are coming up with the money. This guy stockpiles, I don't know what it was, $20,000, $30,000 within the last few months.

Right. He gets out of prison. He goes to the halfway house. Nobody hears from him. People start worrying. He's got my legal work. He was filing motions. My family gave him $3,500.

My family gave him $2,500. My family, I bought this guy $2,000 with a commissary. I put money on this guy's books and this guy. He's got money being sent everywhere. But he's explained that, look, I've got to get out. I got to this. People start calling his brother's law firm. His brother is like, my brother's not a lawyer.

My brother's a fucking con man. What are you talking about? My brother went to jail because he was doing the, books for somebody and he was embezzling money from their business and that's why he went to jail and he's been to jail before and they're like no well my family looked him up he was in the chicago tribune like no no my brother's name is jim kegan my father's name is jim kegan my father was a big time attorney yep and he's like do the math bro yeah my brother my brother's he would have been 23 years old when he tried that case he would have been 28th

Eight years old. Like, are you, like, look at the... The con just came to him. They keep a cup of ass and was like, I can build these people. Look at the photos. Yep. He's like, look at the photos. That's my dad.

Of course, the person at home looking up, the person doesn't realize that you're not, they don't see what Jim Keegan looks like. Like, this guy would be 70 something. Jim Keegan's 50. Like, you know, so it's like, it's like, holy shit. Listen, it was, and I hate to say this, but it was. hilarious. That is hilarious.

And so what happened, and this is what's even more funny, and this is the only reason it reminds me of what you said. Right. I had a literary agent at the time. And I remember telling the literary agent, like, holy shit, you're not going to fucking, like, I was telling him about it the whole thing, right? And so he knew about it. So what happens is, it turns out that a lot of these people started, their family started writing

letters to the bar saying, I gave it. this lawyer money for his brother who was in prison and I gave him money. So his brother starts just paying people back. Because they're saying the bar is like saying first that what they say is we don't get involved in legal fee disputes right but they also are writing letters to him saying you have to answer this. So he's scared he starts cutting checks for 3,500, 2,500, 1,500, 1,500, 3,500 I even knew a guy that wrote a letter to him saying I gave your brother

1500 bucks and he cut him a check he didn't give a shit he pays out like 20 something thousand dollars and keep in mind too these are some of these people have had some motions filed so they're in the middle of a fucking legal a legal battle with the government now that they're ill-equipped to even handle

yeah well here's my question on that though this guy even if he was a lawyer he's great to get not aren't we at the appeal process and that's a special... No, no, no, no. Basically, most, most inmates, so you get arrested, you get sentenced. You have, you basically have one year to file what's called a 2255 to say the government

fucked up somehow or your lawyer didn't represent you or something. After one year, you're basically doomed. Now, if things, if there's new precedence in your case and you can get back in court somehow, you can file a motion, or you can try and get around the one year. time bar. It's called equitable tolling by making an argument. And listen, if you don't know any better, here's the worst thing about the law is that you could file a nice guy motion. Do you know what a nice guy motion is? No. Nice guy is. Dave's a nice guy. You should let him out of jail. And you could write it in Green Crown and send it into the federal court. And they would answer it like

it was a legitimate thing. They'd say, you know, we are, we are currently replying to the nice guy motion filed by, by Dave, stating that he is a nice guy and should be let out of jail under, you know, under Johnson versus the United States. It is clear that he is time bar. And they would, they wouldn't be like, is this a joke? They would act like, so I could not know anything. And there are guys in right now in federal prison who act like their jailhouse lawyers. and they'll file motion. They'll take, give me $500. They'll file motions with you.

And if you don't know anything about the law, you think they do and they don't know shit. And the court responds like it's a legitimate argument. So you have no clue. But put that aside. So here's the second part of that. Is that one day my literary agent comes to see me. I want to say he was in person.

He might have just called me on the phone. I might have just talked to him on the phone. I might have just talked to him on the phone. But he said, listen, Matt. He said, do you know a guy named Jim Keegan? And I said, yeah. Why? I said, remember I told you about him?

And he goes, okay. He said, I thought it might be him. He goes, listen to this. He said, I went into a bar in Orlando. I was visiting a buddy who owns a bar in Orlando. He said, I happen to be in Orlando for some other reason, because this guy was actually from, like, Clearwater or something. So my literary agent went to Orlando for,

some reason goes to a visit a buddy who owns a bar goes into the bar and while he's in the bar he's sitting there talking to um he's talking to the bartender and something came up where he ended up he ended up saying something and jim keegan was there and keegan said to him and i forget exactly how it but he ended up saying reback because the guy's last name was reback he's like reback he goes it's funny he said i got a buddy who who has a lawyer name reback and he goes that's an odd name like people that's a very you know and he said really he said who's your buddy he's a he's a he's a he's named matt cox and he goes yeah he said i'm ross reback he's mac cox is a client of mine he goes i'm not a lawyer though he said i'm a literary agent

or i'm his agent he said yeah he's in prison he said how do you know him and he looked at him and you got to think that's not the expect you know he looked at him and he went oh um i had i actually did some legal work for him. And he said, oh, you did? And he goes, yeah, yeah, I did. He said, oh, what's your name? He said, oh, my name's, he said, oh, it's Jim. He said, you know what, I'll get you a business card. Hold on a second. Goes to his girlfriend who, because he was sitting with some woman. And so Ross turns to his buddy who owns the bar and says, oh, you know him? He goes, yeah, he comes in here all the time with us. He comes in here

probably two, three times a week. But they live around his girlfriend. She's got a bunch of money. He was a very nice neighborhood. Right. yeah she lives around here they come in all the time he's oh okay he said well he walked outside he said about a minute later the girl gets up and walks outside and he said five minutes go by 10 minutes go by 15 he walked outside he's like the guy that they pulled up in like a mercedes it's gone and he turns around he goes what's that guy's name he said jim what's his name and he goes well he paid with his credit card hold on he pulls out his slip and he goes Jim Keegan or you know Jim Keegan and he's like okay cool yeah and so he so when I talked to

Ross Ross said do you know a guy named Jim Keegan and I was like yeah this is the guy he was like fuck I knew it was the guy I knew it yeah he said this is what happened and he tells me the whole thing and I was like holy shit and I said yeah bro you're you're never going to see him again he said I know I'm not he said that had been weeks and weeks he said my buddy said he came in three times a week at least sure he said it'd been two weeks he'd never come back in you know it's funny it bolted is it's Paul heard that after he left to go to spring training Srail showed up at Rottama racetrack but he didn't want no Loduka around

yeah yeah yeah yeah he told you bolted yeah so but but what I was going to say is Keegan by the way if you look it up got he was on probation got re-arrested because he then opened up a he opened up a um opened up a whatever an office a law office saying that he was filing claims for it was an immigration lawyer taking money for immigrate he was charging 1500 to 3500 dollars that's big money for immigrant to file immigration papers big money yeah and he had he borrowed something like half a million dollars in about or he got like half a million dollars in like less than less than a year and was actually here's a really funny part was giving so after a certain period of time

he was actually I want to say it was more than that it actually says it in the article I ought to pull up that article he was actually giving out green card like the cards he actually started making fake cards and so guys are coming in I gave you I got it here's your card you're your card came in here now you're off doing your thing yeah so some of these guys get caught and started a whole investigation and that's how we got grabbed that time goes back to jail again did got 10 years got out on COVID or something he kept the same you would think He closed his office after a while. No, no, this is another one. Yeah, oh, yeah, that's what I'm saying. You think you do it for six months or three months and then bolt, especially when people start coming and complaining. These guys aren't that smart. They think they're smarter and everybody's an idiot.

Just like your buddy. You know, you've got this guy to live it. You're borrowing from all these people in the same office, tell them the same lie, building up money. And then you, so I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I had a, you know, my friend Matt, he was bogus. The appraisals were bogus. And he wanted me to pretend like he was his lawyer.

And luckily I said no, because they were watching him. And then he ducked the bad. That's a completely different case that you're talking about. But it's another guy that thinks he's smarter than he really is. And, you know, had he not run, he wouldn't even probably have gone to jail. But anyways, I don't want anybody to have pity on Dave Srail because I forgot to tell you, when we were going through his bedroom, we found some, you know, girly spank magazines. He had cut out pictures of my ex-fiance.

Because we all went out one night on the town And put it in place of the The pictures on the girl's bodies And was in feeding it to my ex's picture That's just weird That's just wrong I mean But I mean who would go out of their way to do

Like what That's just weird Thinking about my ex Well here's what I don't understand is like You said the whole time like he never dated anybody You never like what's like mentally Not a bad looking guy Yeah.

Because what's weird was when he was at work, he wore his hair really long, and it looked goofy because if you trim him up, he presents himself, he's 6'4. Right. He was a big dude, you know. Was he wearing a mullet? Yeah, he kind of had a dumb-looking mullet. There's two pictures. You can see both his hairstyles.

He would change it when he'd go someplace else that was probably the South Florida hairstyle. And I'm like, cut your hair, and then he would leave stubble and whatnot. You got to put his, in the key words, you have to put his name. Yeah. Like to have this come up if somebody, how funny is that? But, you know, and then when he got arrested, his hair was trimmed, he looked good. Girls liked him. But he would play the, yeah, it's just, man, I can't get her out of my head.

Listen, I was like, oh. To me, that, that story would, that would get you laid more than anything. Of course. I mean, right? So why not play up? That's what I'm saying. If you're going to, if you're going to create this bullshit, shit. Like, why not take the benefit?

I mean, either. He just had no game? That's why I was wondering if he was maybe a little, he liked show tunes, Matt, you know? I was kind of like... Mentally, I wonder what's wrong with, you know? But why is he

cutting pictures out of... He's my old girlfriend and putting in place and... Ugh. It was... Oh, man. All right. My mother's going to listen to.

And it's like, I can't believe he did that. Korea. So that's my story of living a con with a con man for six months and seeing the whole thing unfold. And unfortunately, 30 days for a knife. He really ruined a couple families' lives. Right. And who knows how much damage he's really done. Those are the things that are extremely obvious that you've come across.

Who knows how many little tiny things. And we later found out he did the same. thing in Ohio for well over $100,000 and he just kept repeating the process wherever he went and the government says that's a civil matter but if you steal from a bank we're going to throw you in prison right I mean that's got me got my mind going you know I'm saying it's got the gears going but yeah it's just it just seems very unfair listen if I did that if I clip somebody for 200,000 300,000 they would say it's fraud Yeah, of course.

You're going to prison. Of course. Because, just because they're like, yeah, it's you. Yeah. I wouldn't have old Dave's luck. Yeah, yeah. You might be right, but it just doesn't make sense. It's sad.

The real sad thing is even if they went in arrest of the guy, they're never going to get anything. He's going to make restitution payments. Keep them out of prison. Make them work to pay it off. Right, yeah. Because that's what the people need is money. Don't send him in jail. Well, first of all, mentally, like this, there are some people that no matter what you do,

they're going to, they're going to run some kind of con. I mean, obviously he's a game, he's addicted to gambling. Yes. But you said he wasn't bad at it, but then you said he lost hundreds of thousand dollars. But that's the whole thing. When he was really a great handicapper, such the fact that Thistle Downs hired him as they're on track handicapper. And he did the TV show, he showed me tapes of it. This wasn't him saying, I saw it with my own eyes.

He did a TV show, Thistledown's a little track in Ohio. But Dave was really a good handicapper. And if he set his mind to it and he manages money, right, you know, they don't build these tracks on people winning. They build on people losing. But there are some guys that, you know, if you pick your spots, but Dave couldn't control himself. So, like when I told the story about him being at the high,

Life Fronton, he's betting Australia at 8 o'clock in the morning. That's what he was doing. Right. If he would have just kept his gambling just to the weekends probably, maybe he wouldn't loss so much. But this guy's just got to have action. And I think that was his ultimate undoing. The sad thing was he lived in the straight and narrow probably four or five years,

and it was that last year down here in Florida that it really got to him. It looks like being an alcoholic. Like, you know, they'd be great for five years. and then they have won six months, they've lost everything. Yeah, yeah. And the, yeah,

he just, I think, but, you know, gambling's such an issue, and especially if you're competitive, when you lose, you want to get back up

and go right back at it. Right. And so you get, you're more engaged, more engaged. Is that you? Yeah, it must be the people showing up

to fix the AC. I'm going to take it? Speaking of marriage, though. What? Trail. What? So if the ex-fiancee is fake right and didn't have any chicks down there,

so if the ex-fiancee is fake and didn't go after any chick, apparently he and Avalina dated very briefly, was he afraid to bring a woman in into his con? I have no idea. I, I, I dated a chick. chick that I remember she had told me that she dated

a guy. Because I remember we had gone on a few dates. This was 20 years ago. I remember we gone on like one date or two dates. And I remember she was like, we had slept together and she said, do you have

any fetishes? And I was like what do you mean? And she said, I just want to make sure that you're just like a normal like there's nothing weird. And I was like why? I was like, have you dated some guys that have some weird stuff? She goes, yeah. Because I dated a guy that literally, she said he had like a feet fetish. And I was like, she was like, like he literally wanted me to lube up my feet. And he would, it's, she was, it was,

it was weird. And I was like, oh, wow, I said, how long did you date him? She's like about six months. Oh my God. Wow. You and I were on match.com about at the same time. And I remember, I used to go to Tampa and Orlando, meet some girls. That Becky Howke, but I didn't run to her out. Let me tell you something. You're a better man than me. She would have been hog-tied duct tape. I would have taken more than half of the money and said, here you go, honey.

I'm out of here. Yeah, that's not. You said you're a good man. You left her with a bunch of money. I tell you what. She didn't last. She lasted about a year. That's a type of woman that I would date thinking, oh, I'd feel bad for her.

She's bipolar. And then next thing, you know, I'm, you know, What am I doing? Oh, listen, I thought it all the time. She, she had me, too. She had me. Like, she'd cry. That's, I'm a sucker for a girl that cries.

Yeah, I start crying and I feel bad. But anyway, are you ready? Yeah. Are we, did you have anything else? Anything else I've been asked? No, just great being on the show. I really enjoy your channel. And thanks for having me.

Yeah, I, sure, I appreciate that. I appreciate you coming down. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor. hit the subscribe button hit the bell leave a comment uh we're going to leave uh the website that we've been talking about in the description uh i can't remember dave srail dave sherell dot dave sherell dot liars backward dave srail liars backward dot com all right so we're going to leave that description uh in the description box and if you see them don't loan them any money don't lend

them any money i appreciate you guys watching thank you very much see you