Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Gang Leader Shares Tragic Story of Losing Family, Fingers & Freedom

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Gang Leader Shares Tragic Story of Losing Family, Fingers & Freedom

I got in the bloods when I was in the sixth grade. I had two kids by the time I was 16 years old. My old, my chief, well, not like the other average gang leaders. I got plenty of them. I got four, five cars, I got houses, and I'm only 16 years old. I'm running front of the gun and get shot in his hand first. That's why I missed this finger. But I don't know here. I don't know my little brother here.

I don't know. I don't know nothing. The only thing I'm trying to do is say my brother, knocked off this finger, knocked out this finger, knocked out this finger. I remember licking old and seeing my little brother on the ground I'm in the hospital bed I just keep asking like, well my brother my brother now I got this hospital guy on him

so I go to the door and I like look out of the door and like the police officer he owed I talk to the nurses look again Sprite out run snatch the shit off and just went around the head

if somebody wanted to kill me today I would never see it coming because I've started I've been in a tour with so many different people different cities, different state. I don't know what it's going to cost. So I got to live every day in my life.

Like, damn, where it's going to come from? Tell people this all the time. I was more happy and comfortable locked up than I was free. Hey, this is Matt Cox. And I feel funny with you being there. All right. Listen, just so for your information, I feel silly doing it. it okay so don't so don't think boy he takes it natural he's very natural i feel silly okay so i know

what i sound like oh okay all right this don't be an asshole the whole time i'm not so was so is that i know how hard how you want to come off hard and i was telling my wife i was like this he don't have a problem because i say you're going to be telling stories and i'm going to be like come on now did you feel bad about that shit he's going to be like matt i always ask that Yeah, Cox, stop it. It's all right. All right. Hey, this is Matt Cox and I am here with, I'm going to say Travis.

That's cool. Is that cool? Okay. Hey, this is Matt Cox and I am here with Travis Luke. He is a former, he is a former gang leader in South Carolina. Man, out of time we did to get on from George. Damn it. Damn it.

Let me try it again. feel like, honestly, like leaving all the cuts in, like leave all that. He's like, hey, this is Matt Hawks, and I'm here with Travis Luke, and he is a former gang leader from Georgia. He and I were incarcerated in Coleman, I'm going to say Coleman Federal, the Coleman Federal Complex, because I don't want to say low, because that makes it sound like you're soft, and I don't want to make sense, no, because I know, I know. I know, I know your, I just, I know. I know. This is a big guy. So, anyway, yeah.

So we're going to be doing a very serious interview. And I appreciate you. I appreciate you guys watching. So check this out. Hi. So, so then Colby then plays some, you know, and then that, you know, it'll, and then he'll cut this about it up. And then it'll play. And then I'll be like, well, you know, I'll do the whole.

Well, I appreciate you coming. Okay. You know, it's crazy though. This is by the most nat. talking to me all that time we did him prison he just usually let me hang out with that i just like a little shadow not true you don't even respond to text messages now i text you three times that i'm like bro i was still trying to figure out i didn't know if i want to break law or do right so i just like if i had break law i don't want to be your friend because you was doing so good

you told me where you was going because you know you're trying to figure the shit out i can't trust cox to tell him i can't tell him nothing's going on yep okay i can't be hanging out with them because that's not going to go go they're they come in my door and be like you You know, Travis, he did it. He did it. I don't know exactly what he did. I couldn't convince you that I was a good guy while I was in prison. I had a high mood.

Just like, yeah, what are you? Okay. Why these guys follow you around? Yeah, what's going on? I'm just going in the same narration. Stop telling me you're here for taxi evasion. I was a hacker. I can't say hacker because most of those guys said he was enough of hacker was enough or something else.

That was the cover. Or they'd say fraud. She always irritated me. He's like, fraud. Oh, why would you put? pick fraud. I hated that. I remember the councilor telling me, like, it's like 2,200 people in the compound. This was like 900 of what was said as a film. I was just like, why am I here? It's, it's, it's, it's great, this soft as con. When I'm, I'm a harder, one of the

harder motherfuckers on that compound, it's all this is all right. Well, Matt, you had your demeaning together like how you're walking around the compound. Just like, man, might be locked up and sending guns or so. No, no, no, what your nickname was? When you was just like, oh, you guys, they have a neat man. So I'm gonna have a neat man. I wanted to push chainsaw. Chainsaw. Like, so you want me to just, we're gonna hang out.

I'm just like, this is my buddy to chainsaw. We're not doing that, man. No, we're not doing change. Who was it that called me chainsaw? But even when he said it was, I think it was Kay would, like, hey. I was just like, I'm not doing. Hey, chainsaw. And it was.

You know, the comments now, they say chainsaw. They call me. Yeah, they call me change. I've already told that story. I've already told the story that when I got there, I tried to put, when I went from the medium to the low, I said, I tried to push chainsaw. I said, but people were just, they weren't having it. They were like, I was not, you're not a chainsaw.

I'm saying, maybe you're not. It was okay for you to get a nickname with, like, chainsaw. Just don't really give the nickname vibes. Like, so how to join in the midnight. That's not. As Bank of America, they, I had, it's dangerous. I mean, like, chainsaw, what the hell do you get chainsaw for? Yeah, and it never stuck.

It was too bad. Everybody had a cool nickname. I'm not saying so Even Kay wouldn't You know he never would Like it took me forever To figure out what his real name was He wouldn't tell me

I was like I was like I don't know K real night But I knew what I knew K was It's like he wasn't this tough guy anymore When he was hanging around With the little Scornin a little white guy

With a glass Who I brought in as my editor James James Manning You're Don't you know they call me into the office Every while I'm starting James And I just like no He's like editing in my books

And like no There's no reason that he's Hang around with you You're the leader of the gang. He got all this record. Like, he's not, he did this. Why are you with him? Just like, he edited in my books.

And he was like, no, you got to be doing something. No bullshit. Police officer's coming back. He was like, I asked my people about you. Like, you're really a gang leader. I was just like, shit. I just feel like, you can get about to go level. Because he's trying to figure out why am I with James.

James really, James really literally editing my books. He was my friend. Right. Literally thought I was estherting James. And he was just like, no, I'm not. I'm not distort James. I'm just like, no, I'm not. I think at that time,

there was so little going on at Coleman they started looking for stuff like yes now now they're they're they're doing sweeps and pulling in 200 cell phones there was almost no cell phones back then it was like one or two yeah there's drug there they they find drugs they got people dropping off drugs on on um drones they got officers bringing it in because all the officers that were there when we were there they're gone i was just for the same one's got a new war because you know you remember they was doing i just had went on to somebody was shooting the um using the t-shirt gun and they were shooting the drawers over the fence they locked us down and just made walking the middle one let us on rick yore you remember no folk

told a handball put now and short in the yard like remember the y'all was so big they short in the yard because they couldn't yeah they eventually open it back up though but but they made it smaller though you can't go all the way over by the by the handball because they couldn't watch it right right um people didn't play yeah i was going to say uh yeah all those so when covid came through almost all the officers they've because they were making too much money so they forced them like to take retirement or they were retired because there were so many officers getting COVID because it was so rampant in the prison they didn't want to get it so you're you those all you know 90% of fat and old and like they're like I don't I don't want to get COVID I could die and these it's all

throughout the prison so they were taking early retirement and which was good for the BOP because if you're making 90,000 a year you've been there 15 years you're making not 80 grand or grant you retire we go hire somebody for 30 30 the problem is the most senior officer at coleman low now has like three years experience oh yeah so three years he can't figure out he doesn't know all the tricks man we was that you couldn't even steal a milk out of the cafeteria yeah my god I was trying to steal some apples or something and the dude was like oh you're gonna you're gonna take the lawn I forgot we would call the little manual lawn more we had a name for him just like you're gonna go out there cut the grass like cut where grass he's like you're gonna cut from here

I'm not doing that. I'm just not doing that. Go ahead and write me up. Call whoever you're going to call. I'm not doing that. Get to the office. Get out there with SIS. Once again, they got this paper.

Oh, you're going to sign this paper and say you're the gang, no, I'm not. Well, we're going to get you off the compound, get an airplane, helicopter, bow. I don't care what I'm not in the game. I don't care what my paperwork say, I'm not in the gang. I'm not charged with drugs. Right. I'm not in the game. And he was just like, literally like trying to meet me go mordies, either either side or say, I'm in the game or go mow the grass.

I'm just like, I'm not doing it. It's just not having It's not doing it They had So they didn't have gas lawnmowers No way Flea Sloan we called the fleece Yeah yeah

It was blades It's funny So you could have blades On a lawnmower But you can't have a gas lawnmower So you had to have to push these lawnmowers to cut the grass And they had the inmates who did it

And how being in coal, man You got to think about it We was in the middle of Florida The heat was crazy saying I'm not I'm not doing it Call it call you want to call them I'm just not doing that We could figure something else out.

I'm not used to finish, I'm not done. They used to take them and make knives. They would make knives out or they'd break them apart and they can kick them apart and they end up with a night that's long. Slightly twisted with a slight twist in it. Okay, so let's go back and start like at the beginning. Like, were you born in Georgia? Yeah, I was born in Alabama, Georgia.

You know what I mean? But when I first jumped out of the porch, I was about, Well, I feel it's crazy because my first The first time I got with the police Got into it with the police or whatever got caught by the police I was like nine years old And I was some older guys And we was trying to get into some girl windows

Right Police ended up coming in or running a course Me being the younger kid I get caught So it's like my first interaction with the police After that interaction Probably two years later I was in the gang Well so

Was your mom and dad I mean, we're, okay, how many, you know, brothers, sisters. So I would have any brothers, sisters, where your mom and dad together? No, no. My dad is crazy. Like, my dad had been in prison, like, my whole entire life to the point where I was, he finally got out and I was in a restaurant with some of my other brothers and sisters. And he was just like, because now the guy to think about it, I haven't been in state prison. I was always in jail.

So we, both of us is always in jail at the same time. So he was just asking who I was, who I was. He didn't know who I was. How old were you? I just met him. I just met my father with what just seeing him in person for real when I was about 37. What was he in prison for? First time when he was three, he went for murder.

Right. And then the last time he went for Robin, a bunch of places just during the hole. So he did a murder bed, got out, reoffended almost immediately, and went back in. Went back in. So I never like, this is the most time now that I spent with being around my fault. I'm going to tell you, like my mom and my mom. my grandma, like, mind you, I just said I got in the game when I was 11. And the crazy part about it is, I was kind of fortunate to choosing a game because by all

being so small, it was just like predominantly Crips and GDE, saying, well, there's another local game that was called CME Routes. So the neighborhood called what? CMEE Routes. Okay. CMEY statement of murder, execution. Okay. I mean, so the neighborhood I grew up in was most predominant CME.

So it's like, I didn't want to join and be with them because I didn't want nobody to tell me what to do. So I just like, okay, I'm just going to chill. So I end up becoming blood. Right. Crazy thing about it. I became part of a renegade set, which would mean that the set wasn't official. But by the time, within from 11 to probably like age of 16, like unraised and all types of hell, I'm getting into it, funny shit, right? I used to, because I knew I was going to lose the fight. It was just no way for me to lose because the crux of the GDs and the semi-rout was the most predominantly gang in all in our city. So I was young. I was just drink i would miss mad dog and paul m's son together before i go out to the team partis i was

you were what i was mixing mad dog 2020 and cavi or paul m's son or e and j whatever you know whatever i got i will mix it together so i'd be dropped by time get to the party so and if i lost the fight i won't know to the next day right because they was going to jump on me in my way i was always getting jumped on are you going to high school are you yeah i was well okay so by then I was probably about ninth grade Okay, so I got in the game When I was in the sixth grade Which made me

So, okay, let me back up Let me back Let me back up Let me back up So I got in the bloods When I was in the sixth grade Which basically like I said Was a renegade you said

Right Most of the guys that was over me Start going to prison From murder and all types of shit They just started going to prison So that really just left me I turned into a whole other situation So it's just the gang

Start growing out of proportion But before we get to the grand gang It was just me I was like the only blood in my city Against Other gangs So in order for me to To win the fight

Or either just psych out I guess you would say I just get drunk Before I go out to these team parties Okay Where's your brother Did you have two brothers One brother? How many brothers do you have?

So I'm going to have four kids at the time All right Two brothers and a sister And me okay but my mama best friend ended up past and then we end up having two more brothers to be added to she took over took over their own start we basically adopted them yeah so that's six kids living and your mom's raising six kids and it's five boys one girl but we got we got a close in the family so when you grow up poor the best thing for you all family that they

connected to stay stay close to these of them so we all live on this one street called hickering lane one street and my mom my grandma and my two aunties all stayed on the same street so shit if my mom might have a pack of meat my auntie might have some mashed potatoes my other auntie my house some rice and another auntie might have some microachie we're gonna get the other one put a meal together with a feed everybody right so it was like yeah my mom was raising six kids but my aunties were there too but it was no male figure so what that left for me be at a young age which to push me to the streets was I was the older male figure My grandmother raised me

Even though you're just a kid I was just a kid You know what I mean But I'm an older male figure Like I could remember Being probably I had to be still in middle school And I would work at the store

In the community Now at the time Like I don't join the game But I really like doing something Like selling nileaders and shit for money Like I'm hustling Like I'm hustling Yeah, that's how the shit started

Yeah I see how you smile That's how the shit started I start selling the candy Nine ladies two forked Yeah Everybody like to put down the flavor And like Speaking of that hustle

I used to meet sugar and Kool-Aid and my grandma used to help me do it So I would meet sugar and Kool-A together bag it up and I would just tell the kid at the school I would make them run faster And I would say that it was what? Make them run faster I would miss sugar and Kool-Aid

It was just making it right But I would meet sugar And I'll meet sugar and Kool-Aid together Just bag it up Take you to school How I can I will have can sugar and Kool-Late And I would go out of school to sell it

And so So what were you brought? Did your brother join gangs or? That's the crazy thing about those, right? So my brothers didn't really join the gang until later, to later, later at life. I single had to live later in life. You're like 13 years old. I was later in life.

I mean, when they were 15. But you remember now, I'm from the hood. So we grow fast. I'm going to tell you, I was a kid at the store. I was working in the store and instead of the man paying me, I would get bought some sausages and rice. And I would take it back to my mom. Loaf bread. you know what I mean

or without a cake maybe I take it back to my mother so that's how I fed help feed the family like you said so at young age I was already

becoming a man so that forced my brothers to grow fast too but they look under me yeah everybody's got to contribute

everybody has they got to contribute you know what I mean so they're looking at they're looking under me but really I whole hardly put my mama

her kids my auntie their kids my other auntie her kids and my grandmother on my back and I was like

14 years old which led me to set in droars like it started with the gang shit like I was sending nine ladies and all that type of

shit but this they say something to the school called West over high school mind you West old high school is like the predominant school in our communities they did some reason I'm on or some shit like that they ain't of sending me to West over so I'm like okay hmm I probably could sell drugs here like I mean I'm like in the ninth grade like I probably could sell drugs here so I think why couldn't you sell drugs at the I can't believe I'm saying this well why why was it easier to sell drugs there than the then where you were going before that okay so you

Is there other guys they are selling? No. You know, for the most part, in the drug, if you dealing with the other side of time was money, they pay more for the drugs. Okay. So that area had drugs. I mean, that other area had more money. They had more money.

Okay. And that's what he signed in high school. Oh, okay. You know what I mean? Like between then, it was like I was trying to figure out what I was going to do. I had it. I was trying to work. I was working at the store.

I was doing all this other shit. But by the time I made it to ninth grade, I kind of figured it out. I was going to sell drugs. Right. So I literally went across the street to the guys that sold drawers across the street from and I stole these drugs. And I went to school to sold it. You just stole it like just like to win their house and stole it?

They didn't know. How did I side? Most of them I hid their drawers outside. Okay. And I knew what he hit on me because I stayed directly across street. So then I just was a kid. Yeah, yeah. I'm outside dripping in the basketball.

Yeah. He's probably, yeah. They're thinking you're not even paying attention. The whole time I watch. So I ain't, you know, stealing his drugs, going to school, selling them, coming back and spending the money with him. To buy more drugs. Buy a boy drool.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's reasonable. The Bible draws. So that's what circle of life. The circle of life. You know what I mean? That's what I started at. But what made it so easy for me to make a lot of money,

sad to said, it was my grandmother was just like, its consequences behind your ashes. Right. So if you go, I know you do. you i know you doing this just be able to sell the consequence so my grandma really never just like don't sell drugs right it's like fucking like he bringing money in the house it is what it is so well i was gonna say i i i you know i like like i like i like i like i like i like even even even my wife it's like she's like you know you get to a point where you've got you know

you got a drug addiction you got three kids and it's like and even if you had somebody to watch the kids you can't feed those kids working at Walmart no so she's like you know but if you sell drugs yeah that's your dursa bad then you got to think about a minimum wage bad then was like three dollars three 24 hours and i and i can say that like my mother my mother my grandma aunties like none of those people like usual i can't remember my mom were like drunken or none of this shit we just had poor fun that's illiteracy like nobody knew how to make money right it's like okay we're gonna work it out these restaurant jobs daycare and she's really not making money when everybody got four or five kids apiece.

Right. You know what I mean? And I'm the oldest male, but I'm living with my grandmother. But my mom will stay a street over or down the street. We always stay close to each other. Right. So my grandmother, like, when she found out of, she knew I wasn't going to stop. That shit was out of the question.

Yeah. So I used to literally sell drugs all night and they're going to school next day, but I would sell drugs through the accredit of my window. Right. But by then I had him graduated selling crack, which we got to think about it. So I'm born at 8 or 4. At that time, it's probably 8 to 9, something like that.

So I'm like 14 years old. You know what I mean? 14, 15 years old when I go, when I start really selling crack, it's crack as everywhere. Yeah. In it for what? You could just walk outside and just sell. Yeah. They're doing anything to get it.

It was crack as everywhere. Yeah. It was everywhere. So that's where it clicked. Drawers is going to be the way. So you start, so when you go to high school, you started selling at the high school too yeah i was selling i was selling mostly marijuana and coke in the high school right they got me out of high school fast i was out of high school probably

you know i was why for i was born man let's just say by the time i made in high school i was getting suspended probably out of 30 days because you have to build up the 10 days they start you with three then five then 70 then 10 by my first semester every time i was suspended for 10 days like my mother which my mama she kind of was always like he ain't doing the wrong my grandma do like oh no this this this fuck is he was break a lot right so my mama was seen me to school with two dollars mind you now I'm already seven drills but she just don't my mom I don't want to sell that yeah yeah she didn't want to say it he just like I don't shit's not happening I'm just like I don't even need these two dollars like I got I think they got

money but she would send me to school with two dollars a dollar to kiss the boss home and a dollar for lunch. So if I was lucky another state of lunch, I had a dollar eating lunch for it. But nine times times out of ten, I was getting suspended before the door and she just was overcoming to get me for school. It's like put them on the Citibus. I'm not coming. Right. If she's not coming to school. So I was

getting suspended. Shit. Every time I made the school, sometimes I didn't even make it pass 8 o'clock. I was suspended the game for 10 days. So what are you getting suspended? For fights? Fights. Okay. All good teachers. I'll just

every day i just did i didn't get to the point where the principal was just like he was just out of my ass so anything i did it was 10 to 8 yeah they want they're trying to get you sleep in class is 10 day all right you're chilling gone 10 days get you to a point where you can't even you can't even keep up with the work and we just get rid of this guy hey that that's so we just got rid of my head um okay so so when was the first time you got in trouble with the law other than getting caught for sneaking in the girl uh windows i was about 11 20 years old for the time i got in trouble

would alone okay no no I mean for for the for being out with the guys sneaking and girl that was like nine years old oh okay so what was 11 for I was just fights okay just getting the fights when was the first time you got in trouble for uh dealing drugs I probably made it I'd be a pretty good well that's interesting I had a good run all right 18 months yeah I had I had a good word I think the first time might have been they're sent me to she how old how about 18

I was about 18 years old the first time because I remember no I was 17 they sent me off because if you were juvenile yeah when I was a juvenile

no when I was a juvenile I got I had six counts of terrorist threat with ass then the drawers came like why

so okay so this how we ended this how we ended getting arrested for the all terrorist their ass fight. But I told you, I used to do all this drink and then I would go to the club and I would get into these fights. Right. So I get into a fight with these guys. I didn't know,

guess I ain't no winning. They caught through my neighborhood hanging out of the window with guns and all this shit. But that I was, I didn't give a fuck about guns. So I ain't know running down the street chasing the guys throwing bricks through their window. My younger brother threw a brick through the window. They got guns now. They parents were the police on me. Remember I told you I went to a prom in high school. These was the guys that went high school with me. Okay. They mothers called the police on me and I went to jail for six council terrorist threats. Even though they're driving through your neighborhood shooting or just hanging out.

They were shooting. They were just hanging out of the window. And I never forget it. So my mother, my grandmother, what really made me nutter that nutter is because my daughter was, I had two kids by the time I was 60 years old. My old, my chief and my first. I had my first daughter when I was. 14. She's 24 now. So I had my first daughter when I was fixing. Lanes are sneaking in the girls' windows. Yeah, I'll start a real, real soon, real soon.

Yeah, real soon. So that would make me add out. They came through the neighborhood with the guns and my daughter was on the street. And I was, it would sound bad because I was in the house playing a video game. Right. Okay. I was in the house playing a video game where they came through with the guns and my mom, my daughter, my mother, my grandmother, they were sitting on the porch. And they just made, me psych out and I ended up getting arrested for six council terrorist threat wags so he never went to jail how how long did you yet um they end a drop in the charges okay I went this lot me up and my bond was like 30,000 dollars and so we had to scrape

up the money to get well at first they didn't want to give me a bond right because I had on been in so much trouble getting doing this little bullshit when I was a juvenile till when they finally got me as an adult they didn't want to give me a barn so they made me sit and I you know they He didn't or dropping the charges. But we remember we had a bummed, like $30,000 a dollar boss. You know, my mom ended up dropping me out. He didn't have dropping the charges for that. But right after that, I was arrested for the droves.

So if my first drug arrest, I'm literally two hours of down playing talk on gambling. They keep in, I'm watching it like, it's crazy because I'm sitting there watching them pull off. It's like we feel like, damn, they feel they're running my house. But they ran in my grandmother's house. They run on my, my old family's in the house. Had you sold, had you been caught on like a control buy or something? No. Or somebody else got caught into that's the house I get it.

That's where. If it was an older guy. Like I was the king of them able to sell the drug and there was an older guy. Oh, I'll forget his name. He set the drool in the tomorrow. Which once again, they was already out to me because of the gang shit. Right. I was already raising our type of hell on the day shit.

So I was like, okay, we got opportunity to let's get them for this. They ran into the house. they find some crack thing you found crack and thought cracking weed in my grandmother's house so I had like walked down the street they had a whole family on the ground

my mom by my mother my mother yeah poor grandma had it's like oh well well no no no no no can't say poor grandmama because I'm gonna tell you some of my grandma mind you got to go back

from I told you she had on the cell today all right he's selling drollas it is what it is yeah so it got to the fall my fear hey hey well forgive me for this she passed in Twitter field so you can give me for this but my grandma was my business partner

So, yeah, so she was just like, so what you say it is for? What you're saying this for? So we got to the point where I started up all the trap houses and since her house was where I started it, it already had people coming in. Right. So she was selling weed, she was selling a crack

and she had cigars and all. So she was like my business boss. So no, poor grandmother, Netflix and some of the crack they got was probably hers. I just took the charge. So when the cops had them all laid out, you walked over and said it. I, yeah, it's my, everything.

my oh i was thinking you're doing i'm glad you guys finally got across she saw crack in this neighborhood camp from grandmother grandma you was about time oh tell you my grandma man my son was so crazy that's me doing this same time i never forget like some neighbors i was gone i was in the other trout my remember had this spot so the neighbors they got a tour of my family my family's big as shit like everybody you go to arbin to jordan say luke family they're gonna know who it is so my family the biggest shit so i remember this one time they get a tour with another family And I get a call, like, and so they just push your room over the down. It's just, she's the, what?

I fly over there. By the time I get there now, my family, I ridden who days, they don't just bust out of the folks, windows, all the type of shit. But I got to get some of these too, because you don't push them wrong with us. No way. I'm going to, I got to be able to tell what I did. What I did. I run in, running these people house, do all kinds of shit, right?

They uncle come back. He's standing in the back yard. He's shooting the gun in there. Oh, okay, he's going to clean with this. I ran in the house. I get the gun. My mother, she's trying to stop me. She's like, no, no, no, do it.

My grandma was like, shoot that fuck. You sit there. My mom. I'm gonna crammer the gasser. My grandmother, like, move out of his way, shoot that fucker. So now, you know, it's just like, that's all I needed to hear. Like, it would have fucked the consequences. Forget what could happen.

My grandma said, shoot. So I'm touching with my mama. I end up breaking away from my mama. The only reason why I end up not being able to shoot the dude is because it was dark in the backyard he was shooting that so just like I'm just shooting a while

just shooting in the backyard but I didn't ever hit him make a long story short the police calms you realize this isn't normal parenting advice right I just told you

my grandma was my business partner my grandma was my business part that was my dog so dude my grandma ended up my grandma ended up taking charge oh he's serious

with the further part of what grandmother they're like what grandmother's like my grandmother immediately I'm out of here because my word on probation and all type of shit.

I run. They don't get my grandma with a bun. So now she's crying. Well, now she's crying because she don't get a bar. So now I got to go like, pay the lawyer to get her bud and get out of jail. She came on, she looked me straight in the face light. I'm not doing that shit again. Like, I'm going to jail.

Now, I'm just, just, I'm not too. Somebody's got to take a charge in the inside. I'm not going. So, like, my grandma, my daughter life. So it's not normal parents of baby. That's my big part. That was by being, my brother on a look at your face and be like, he'd be like, oh, he shot such a sudden.

I'm going to be like, nah, he didn't do that. He was here with me. All right. Down well, I went down. She would look at him full straight in his face and be like, he was here with me. No one. I did it. So that was my dog.

So what happened? How did the gang? I mean, you, so you stirred off. You said it was just like you. Yeah, well, clearly it didn't just stay you. No, no. That, that's something. I couldn't have never calculated.

Being in Auburn and Georgia, you know, I got to think, because you got to think about it. Back then, the games was more prevalent in New York, California. Like, it really, it was trickling down to the Southern states. You know what I mean? It really wasn't that did. But we had games, but it really wasn't like it is now. Right.

By me, being just really the only person in the beginning, that's how, you know what I mean? By the time you met me in prison, I was over Georgia. I was over the G-Shine bloods in the state of Georgia. But in the beginning It's just really what me And the crazy thing about it was We had this thing called 7-5

So 7-5 was The what was the gang No and all been It was crime murder, execution, seeing me Then you had me was blood Seven was seeing me Five would the blood stand for So I really like had to

Like lank up with them Because I grew up in the neighborhood I just chose not to get in their game Like because they already had a legal Right So it's like I'm not nobody's not telling me what to do I'm smarting than most of these guys I'm not, you're not about to tell me what to do.

I already watch how y'all move. I'm not doing that. But I got to become affiliated at some point because I'm in the streets. Right. You know what I mean? You don't want to be a target. No, I don't want to be a target. And be honest with you, I've seen the power in which which, you know what I mean?

I get into, I thought I tell you story about the games. Like, I seen the power of having an organization, which was the drills for me. See, I already, I could see where we're going to be, where it could go with having that type of power. So I didn't want to get up onto somebody else local and have them, basically did take how I go. So, like I said, I became, I became blood when I was in the sixth grade, you know what I mean? My older brother, which was basically my adopted bro, you know what I mean, and I ain't jail. So he was my big homie.

Hell, oh, some old guys on the name and they were, they were to be homeless. Some of them started going to jail and some of them got scared and just did what we call get back on the porch, which left me, I held by myself. Right. But me, me having good sense is I'm going to, I can't. I can't lock in with the criss in the GD. That's just not happening. Bloods is not rocked with Crohn's GD. It's not going to happen.

So here comes to see me, which is I was already friends with him because we grew up in the same neighborhood. We was all from the same neighborhood. Some of my cousins was even seeing me. So that's where I end up making them like my allies. Like we got the same enemy, which was the crux of the GD. But at the beginning, it was just me.

And it just exploded. So, to what, when you say exploded, like, is this, is this like, like, guys are coming to you for drugs? You're selling them drugs. And then you say, you really need to be a part of this, about a part of my organization. Or are they coming directly to you and just saying, hey, I want to be a part of this organization. So my younger brother was just the one guy killed. I don't know if you remember me telling you should know about how I lost my mother. Which we'll get into a little later.

But my younger brother, he basically did recruit. I won't even say recruiting. He was the gatekeeper. he made it okay for people to want to be in our game. Right. Me, I was always kind of like, they would bring me people. And I would be like, nah, he ain't, he ain't, he ain't that. Like, he don't need to be part of this, you know what I mean?

I was just real, I would, I would have been cool with having five and ten people, you know what I mean? Right. Because I know, now if I got out five or ten people around me, I know what everybody going to do. You know what I can keep an eye on? I can keep eye on five or ten, but my brother, my younger brother, he just was just like the gatekeeping. He just were bringing me all these people, you know what? I mean, my other brother, which is my brother that I got with me, he ended up bringing a lot of people around. You know what I mean? But I just, I just really, I was always like, nah, it's some guys right now that leaders that I was just like, no, he, I don't, I can't vouch for that. You know what I'm right? I'm going to say around age of 16. I'm going to say around age of 16. That's when it, we got anything with the bloods and all been kind of exploded. And it was, by the age of 16, I'm sitting there plenty of crack. I'm selling tons and tons of crick.

I don't like to cook crack, which we'll get into, but I'm learning I don't know how to cook crack. So my whole area, they're looking at me like, I'm not like the other average gang leaders. They just, they don't got no money. They just game. Here come me with the game shit, but I got, I got plenty of money. I got four, five cars, I got houses, and I'm going to sit 10 years old. Right. So it's, so it's lucrative to be a part of that organization, as opposed to,

the other organization. Right. Right. But I could see why you would want people underneath you because although they're always trying to kind of get the head guy, you also could be insulated. Right. You know what I'm saying? So to a degree. But I also understand why you don't want to be the low man on the totem pole because they're crash test don't be. Right. You go do this. You go this. And they're getting picked off. But the higher you are, the harder it is to get to you. Yep. Of course, the worst it is for you. Typically, too. Right. I mean, speaking to like, for one, But I was always smart. So I know you want to, you know, we're going to get into out of game thing, but I was always smart because with me with my organization, it was all about the money.

Like, if you didn't bother us, we didn't bother you. But if you bothered us, we always going to always go to the extra mile because I wanted everybody else to think twice before they come bothered us because you can't get money and go to war at the same time. Right. It's just not, it's just not possible for the streets. I always push the issue with getting money that was always my thing getting the money getting the money getting the money getting the money so everybody wanted to be a part of my organization

because they could tell we was getting money like I had like I said I was probably 16 years old I probably had like I said a shivering with Reynolds on the Delta 88 with Ramzone I had two Calites I had a short Bonneville I just had like I had a convertible It was like 16 years old

It would be 16 17 years old I had a convertible drop top 7 1975 Bonneville that I brought from a drawer that had been sitting the drawers longer than me. So it made it a little lucrative to be a part of my gang. So that's how to recruit me around up. But I wouldn't take it about it.

So they had to go to my, they went to my brothers. Right. Then my brothers were bringing to me like, hey, such, such, such, I want to be part and I'd be like, yeah, me. Because I just, I just, I wasn't really big on growing the game.

You know what I mean? Like, it grew organically. I, I wasn't big on growing. Okay. So. I mean at what point like do you think that you kind of came to the attention of law enforcement or was it like a gang task force or drug task force where you came to their attention like is there a point when like you go a few years before or do they figure out pretty quick

this is an issue and they start trying to target you in some way let's just say I'm going to tell you when we started but let's just I'm the reason what my organization is the reason why all been to Georgia even have a game test for. Okay. They literally went, before the game test for had a, the cars, before they had matching outfits, they came straight to my house, straight to my grandmother, I never forget this shit. Like, my little cousins, one of my little cousins killed my other little cousin. So what happened was they come by the house and it's a bunch of little, you know,

out my little cousins and, you know, they game banged. They got these big, nice-haired guns. So I would have got any guns? How old are these kids? Oh shit I'm I'm I'm

they probably created the gang tear force in 2007 2008 in the Albany so I'm

early the 20th they're probably 14 because I think my little cousin Bo Bo just now

he was fit to get out but the Fed picked him up but Beau was from he made a mistake

and killed he was trying to shoot at somebody else in or shoot and then kill

her out of the little cousin so that was my first first time with the

gang task force but Bo they come in the neighborhood and they got

these beat nice Hey, I'll get these nice-haired guns from. So we end up taking the guns from them. Right. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, this nice-ass gun. Like, it's like some new shit. Like, we all get these guns from.

We end up taking the gun. It's 2-9, never forget it, 2-9-millimeter. We ended up taking the guns from them. And they end up leaving. Like, we got all the guns off of them. But the whole time, they got more gun. But they, where they get them? I have no fucking idea.

I think they stole them or some shit. I can't even remember where they get them from. I just remember seeing the gun. Like, what the hell? Y'all don't get any girl. He's nice-ha-old. Like, these are broken somebody's house or something out because these guns looked a new. Yeah.

They looked very new. So I end up taking the guards from, they end up going like three streets over. And we hear gun shots. And I just look at them and it's just like, I betsy that's an old. I just knew what was them. I just had that feeling all the time. My cousin was trying to shoot at some old people and shot my other cousin in the back of the head. Fuck.

And you, you know, you were thinking. at that part it acclicking me, it endowed me that I need to do something different. But I just, I couldn't, I couldn't think that far because so much shit, now that I'm thinking about it, it's so, up of that incident, it's so much more shit happening. After that, like, shit just got bad. Like, it was like somebody either from my side or other side, just started dying, like, every other week, like, shit just got, just got bad. But I guess, I don't know, I couldn't see it.

But the game test for, before I said before they even came to gab, for it, they're on motor. Never forget this shit. So real quick, sorry, what happened to your cousin that your, boy, what happened to Beau? Bo ended up getting 16 years for the accident, for accidentally shooting his cousin.

And he got 16 years in Georgia, so how much time do you do on that? He did all a six and he did all. He did all. So no good time? No, Bo did out, but Bo, you got to think about him when he was young and Bo was, came a grill in her. Right. He was already, you know, cut from a different cloth.

So Bo was always tied up in some, they might have been said, Bo did this, you know, I can't say exactly, but Bo, they was linking Bo name to stuff that were going on in the prison and that, you know what I mean? He's, he got nothing coming in prison. He lost it because you get a good time. He just lost all his good time.

And he got cities back then for violent crimes in the state of Georgia was like 80-something percent. And so just before he gets out, he's about to get out. Fed picks him up. Fed picks him up for what, though? I think he was even. the drugs inside of the state prison yeah it was it might have been scammer phone it was something he would do i can't remember exactly what the world but he were doing something to

call the fed case for in print in the fed i think he even like three years in the fed he he's he's feeling come off to see three years after me a lot though he was like 14 been getting ready to call on in the fed pick him up i'm sure what's it what's the custody level oh he flew a whole time no no i mean in in federal so he's in a pen and they're going to send it to the pen they're going to send him to the pen i was going to say he's like i don't know what you, I don't know, I was going to say, sorry for doing scamming phones and in prison. I was thinking, if they send him to a lower medium,

he's got to end up learning, he's going to learn some stuff that you're going to get out and get, you know, a lot of guys that they get incarcerated for something minor, and then they go into prison and they get educated on some real things to do. And his is violence, but if he's doing phones, he might go in, I was going to say, this is a guy that's already made his something.

He's made his mind up. I don't know, he might go to a lowest criminal prison because we're up of 15 years. I think the fifth on usual charges against him. He got his charge when he was a kid. So I don't know. He may go to a camp or law. He may end up at a camp or law.

Could come to think about it because he don't have done in state time. After that much time in prison, like you're not getting out just getting a job at Walmart. No. No. But I'm sorry. I was just curious. So what? So he goes, he got, he, he's gone.

And he'll sure get out, they'll leave some barbecue. but that sounds like a that story's written um so what what happened so after that you said the drug task for the task force they came to you gang to say so when they come to the hey body they know they look for my little cousins oh they look for my little cause because at the time he read okay so when they come around i never forget this shit my baby my my my baby mom's stay right by my grandmother house i'm gonna tell you my grandma my business partner so right gangit air for you really go to my grandmother's house automatically. I look out the window and I see

like six police car pull up and there's two policemen in each car. This is my first interaction with the guy ain't had for. They jump out and they're all standing in a circle where they're back to them and they got assault rifle. Like, I've never seen this shit before. Like, I'm used to just the police pulling up and getting out. They're like, jit out of the street.

Right. Sprintz. She don't just like looking out of the window like, what the fuck is calling on here? What grandma did? I'm not coming outside. I'm not coming outside. I'm not coming outside. And then I think about I think I had the mom I told we took the guns right so I'm already convicted feeling like I got the gun right I'm not definitely not coming outside that shit is over with and that's when we figured out that boy we had already knew it had to be something with them but that was my first interaction with the gang task for but when I was in the 6th grade

officer I forget his name he just retired the key keep they had this book and they were everybody they immediately knew a guy he was saying they made you put your name in the book they wrote your name down the book so that was when i first my first interaction with the police as far as the gang situation i mean but they at all at the time i only thing they knew i think i was seeing me that i think i was a rabble because that was my neighbor was but i was a blood so at at what point did they decide that you were uh going to be an you were an issue you were you were you were in an organization you were running you were you were upper management let's say upper, let's say, you were upper management and that they were going, that they were planning

out, they were, they would have liked to have taken you down as quickly as possible. I don't know how 14, four, I mean, I was about 14. Yeah, but you're still, but by this point, you're 17, 18, or in this, in your story, you're still 17, 18 years old. I mean, you're now kind of putting together things and, but I remember all men in Georgia is a small time. Right. Now, it's probably 80,000 people though. And I'm already, I'm already on the worst side of time from the south of all, you know what? from the worst out of time it's poverty

every fucking way right but by then man I'm already I'm done shit I'm breaking all kind of law

I'm getting all types of trouble by then but I think that what what got them just

on my back is when they figured out I was blood they just they just knew I was in a game they thought it was

seeing me he thought it was around if one of the game when they click and they thought okay he blood

that's when the problem so you think it's a problem because like there's because these are now there's there's two gangs that are at each other that that's going to cause

whatever shootings that's going to cause friction like if there's one gang they're saying what it's not that big of a deal but now that there's two that's going to cause problems see is that what it is so I don't understand they already knew that the blurs would be the enemy of the crooks and the GD right see what I'm saying but so before then it was just the CEMU rivals and it was the Bled me know semi-rizzles and it was the GDs and the Crips blurs really had no name in the CRIPS then nobody was worried about the blood, nobody even thought about the blood. When the bloods, when they first caught on to what was going on with the bloods, it was just me.

Right. They just, they locked straight in on me, but he was sore. But I was going to say, but now there's a bunch more guys. Like now when it gets to a point where there's 20, 30, 40, 50. Oh, okay, that's what I'm saying. Like, in what point do they, are they coming around? Are they, they, do you know they're targeting people? Like, okay, okay, I get the question now.

Probably about, not 17, 18, they started really targeting this. Okay. Because I think 08, 08 is when the gang Tad Force itself was created. And they were they first targeted at 08, right. Sam, 08, something like that. Well, I'll be the first Saturday for the game. We're a Tadst Force. So what are they doing?

Are they, just because, I mean, I've written other stories and I interviewed a bunch of guys. And I was going to say, like, I know from talking with them, actually for and from talking with law enforcement like they'll go in and they'll start even then they know they know the structure because they've already grabbed somebody through our in no strosh so then they'll start grab like the low man on the total pole and try and get them to start flipping so they can start building a casing and move up the chain of command to get to the main guys so I mean is that something that you saw happening like hey these three guys got buster these guys got busted then these four guys got bust like do you know that's happening do you do you realize

See, are you conscious that this is what's going on or you're not even paying attention to it? I think, see, the way they, the way they attacked us, it was more militant. I was just, just ran, basically, that's their restrain in tune. Right. You know what I mean? But as far as, like, guys started going to jail and starting getting picked out, that was, like, late on. Like, we had, besides me getting locked up, hand off with drugs, we had a good, we had a good run before they, before he was able to start locking something was up. Outside of what happened with my little cousin, bowl and the guys that was so called over me before they,

when the guy anything for a start, when I told you, so my older brother, he ended up getting like 30 years for murder. I mean, him being two other guys, they wanted to do this for shit, he didn't get like 30 years from murder.

So, early on, it basically was just, I'm gonna say, come. 18, about 18, 19 years ago, when they just really started picking us off.

I was going to start getting drug cases, but, Before the gang seat, they started catching those late. Is there, is there, like, tension, you know, between, you know, your, your gang and, you know, and the Crips at that point? Yeah, it was, what is it, is it, what is, is it just for territory? Is it, you see, probably just out of board. Because it really, it really, yeah, for real, because it really wasn't, like I just told you, like, I just told you, like, as far as the, the territory, go, you only need territory. You only need territory if you really just make it mind it right now.

Right. You know what I mean? So really, no, they wasn't really making no money. It just was really out of border. And you grew up on blood. I don't like you. I see you. You kill me.

I kid you. We fight. Whatever the K. Maybe it really, that shit really out of border. And honestly, I don't think, I know. I ain't the thing because I'll live this shit. We knew the logistic of being in the game. Like, we didn't know.

Got to think about it. This shit trickle down or trickle or trickle from Calh. Tricker from New York. So the purpose of the game, that shit got all way to missy through by the time. and got to look we we did we we was giving the knowledge we was giving the all the shit that you needed to rent the game but we really didn't know what the hell we were doing

it's still on. That's why there's so much killing going on now because you know the first rule of being blood is when I allow your community to be oppressed but what the fuck are we doing? Right. You know what I mean so it's so we didn't we didn't know what the fuck we still don't know so yeah

it was what was the first time he went to jail as an adult yeah 17 for What was that for? Terrence of threats. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. But they dropped their charge of it, they dropped in.

And I, like, probably a few months later, that's when they raided my grandmother's house. Okay. A few months later, they raided my grandma house, found the crack and found the weed. Right. I ended getting locked up, getting the bond. Then they end up, shit. I went to this shit called Intentious on them. They sent me like four counties over to the shit called the Tidson for 100 to 20 to

a hundred to a day. In Atlanta? No, it was like, mortuary. Motor Georgia jar. Just a country. way in the deep in the country worst worst time i ever done no bullshit it was the word i hated it

they could have sung me in a world i hated it to the tension something like i had a 120 to 1 a a a and i ended like doing like an extra 30 days there for bullshit one hundred one hundred twenty days yeah to a hundred and a day know what i mean because that was my first draw case right i mean the first the cherished three as i ain't again they ain't no dropping that so my first draw of case was like they ran on my grandma i found like a couple grounds of crack And so we, you know what I mean? Because they were in the wrong spot.

My grandmother, yeah, that shit was over with. I had to start moving around. I was just said, have you ever, you've heard of Union City? Yeah. So I was in Union City jail for like six months. It was horrible. It was fucking horrible. He got a little tiny town jail.

They'd be the worst jails. Yeah. Maybe the worst jails. Well, this was like more of a, you should be in prison. Well, since it's your first offense, we're going to see you right here. And that's what they're something. to this shit called motion, I think it was motion to tension or something. Hated

it. Worse she don't. The staff was fucked up. It was these job, man. It was the worst time ever. Out of all the fed time, state prison, level three's, level five, all the rest time I ever did was right because they knew that you had that one, 218, so we got

60 days to play with it. And every time you do something, we're going to take seven days. We're going to take 14 days, so they need pick. They bother, you know what I mean? So that was just like the first time. I got out from that. and like you just said something and not that I think about it you go in and you basically learn how to be a better criminal

or you do you do choose to do right I just hanged back out I'm like I'm gonna see I'm with drools right that's when he was that I know I know guys that have gone in there and just got a whole new slew of contacts yeah it's like they had like two they had two sources they came out and it's like I got a source

that his source is this guy who has another source who has another source who has another source who ends up dealing with the cartel and I went to prison and now guess what I got three guys that are in the cartel I can buy from so I just ended up with two or three different sources that are at half the price at twice twice the quantity and and and a hundred percent purity like direct like you just you just turned me for a low a guy that was never really going to be able to make more than 10 or 20 bucks per sale to a guy who's making $200, $300, $300 per sale. Yeah, that just, it's just like, you just turn me into a distributor.

Right. Because, you know, if I don't make it out of the medium high and down to the low, I'm on guarantee I would have a flood in the city with way more drawers than I ever did before. Because I still had to draw it to the mindset. And in the medium high and the highs, that's where all the key opinions are. That's what all the Mexican cartel draw. Like, I was, I met a guy. He was like, I got caught for $2,200 key.

And I was just like, he said it's so casual. So now I'm interested in seeing what's going on. And he was like, yeah, we was braining over here on the boats and submarines and all this shit. So I got a contact. Yeah. You know what I mean? I could say his name like he passed.

It's a guy in Bowler. He's like, oh, my auntie controls the border between this spot and this spot. I was just like, damn, okay. So how much you get in it for? You know what I mean? So if I don't never go to the lower security prison and I stay in the high, it's almost a guarantee because I'm still around the same type of people that, you know what I mean, doing the same shit that we're doing.

versus when I got to the low and then I met all the white collar crumb start learning real estate and not as other shit but if I'd have stayed in the medium I would have definitely definitely sold monroe up because I was the shot collar for the bloods and kind of sorted for georgia when I was at teladal medium so I was always connected to the other shock collars on the compound and who were the other shot calls? Puerto Ricans, Dominican and people the top crook the top gd on the compound and most of them people just would have been in better contact I got what I will come to say, by the way. And that's me, yeah, I was going to say the guys I was locked at what I went to Atlanta City Detention Center. There were guys there that, well, there were guys at Coleman that were from the cartel. Yeah. But there was a, God, I'm going to say his name is Lugo or Luke, Loco, or anyway, I can't

forget the guy at the low, but I was going to say there was a guy they called it this, the Mexican Tony Soprano that was at the AC. I mean, this was at ACV. Oh, okay, okay. And I mean, he, and his cellie was a guy, like his cellie, he had been selling with a guy for two weeks, three weeks. And listen, this guy, he had no, he didn't have a care in the world. The next to the, like, literally, he just got like a 30 piece.

Yeah. Haven't sent him to prison yet. He's getting regular visits. And you're like, well, this guy, do you not have a care of the world? He's watching TV. He's getting commissary. People are making stuff. And one day, his cellie's, like, talking about how his, his baby's mama's car broke down.

And he goes, well, what's the problem? And he's like, well, man, she needs, oh, no, so she just, she needs a new car, this and that. And he goes, give me her address. He goes, what? He said, give me her address. I said, I got a friend that knows a guy that knows a car lot. I'll try and get her a car. And he's like, gives her the address.

He said, I don't know if it was the next day or a couple hours later. somebody shows up with like an ACIRA that was like two years old it was basically almost a brand new active showed up it was like here it is signed here side here and when he called her she was like I don't know what just happened this guy just showed up we find over a car he said well how much is it and she's like no no he said it's my car he gave me the car goes to the guy and he's like yeah you said she needed it right here I mean this guy had and you know what I found out what he was doing through another guy, they were paying guys in Mexico to fly over drugs. And then he was telling the DEA at this small area right here, somebody's going to arrive with 600 pounds of wheat. And he was

and so he's chipping away at his 30-year sentence while sitting in the, oh yeah. And they call the ACDC in ACDC. So he's shipping away at his sentence. And he's, and he's already been locked up fighting his case for five or ten years to get the 30. And now he's chipping away in. But he's paying the Mexican guys in Mexico like, look, we're going to give you, you're going to get caught with 600 pounds. Okay. You're going to get five years. I'm going to give you a lawyer.

You're going to get five years. Your family is going to get this much money. And they'll take care of you while you're in prison. You'll get out. You'll be deported. You're going to do right three because we're going to put you into the Ardell program. You're going to, you'll be okay, but I'm going to get, that will get me like 10 years knocked off my sentence. And then as soon as they do that, boom, I'll get another two guys come and say, look, this guy's got this much.

And for, for whatever, a hundred thousand dollars, a guy in Mexico, he'll do it. He'll be like, oh, five years in a federal prison. That's like going to like, you know, summer camp. Right. So I'll do that. Right. And so that's what he was doing. it was listen that now once i heard that i was like no wonder he so no one and he's got tons of

there was a guy in coleman that was in mexico he did like three years in mexico and then did i forget he got he had like five or ten years in the in the fed and the whole time he had been locking up he was arranging shipments to come over the border he's still doing it he said listen he had remember the big the big uh phone um sorry the big photo albums the big one yeah the big little yeah the bills like they didn't sell them one when we were there they didn't sell the big ones and i sold the little ones so these are hand-me-downs right right he had like two of the big ones and filled with photos of him in a mexican prison with his wife's his wife's going to see him they're drinking corona they're uh he's got prostitutes coming and they would come and stay for four

or five days like you could come for five days and then my wife comes for five days that i can't have a visit for that's a visit 10 days you stay and with me for 10 days in prison and then I can't have a visit for like five days or something so I mean he was insane and then he actually showed pictures of the inside of his cell and almost all the cells had these they were like oriental ruts well they were like afghani rugs or royal rugs and he said the reason he had them he said oh I put all those in because they were wrapping the drug shipments in the rugs and having them shipped using them as ship you so you know I got tons of these things I'm giving him away.

And so we said, hey, bring in some of the rugs here. We want rugs with this concrete tiles cut up. Like, he had the whole, he had his whole cell redone. And at one point, there were bunk beds in his cell. Some of the pictures had bunk beds. And then suddenly one of the bunk beds was gone, the top bunk bed. And I said, what happened to the top bunk bed? Because he had a one-man cell.

Right. But it had two bunk beds. And they were in concrete. He said, I had to have that taken out. He said he was he was he was he could speak great English he was it was interrupting or it was a interfering like I Pete knows it Pete would translate he go interfering he was interfering he was interfering is he was interfering with my fucking like you know that thing's coming out and I'm fucking but you know this thing's coming out of the wall right and I you know so I was like I told him I you got to get rid of this thing so the guards had it taken out but it's it's insane the cartel had a whole wing of the prison yeah every they had catered meals it was in insane. This guy was in there. Hilarious. I mean, tragic, of course. But it was just like, like, you go to prison and you, I always say that. Like, I feel like I went into prison with a GED and fraud. And when I got out, I had like a master's humor. Like, if I wanted to do something now.

Oh, yeah, where I've got more dangerous. Yeah, what out of that? Way more dangerous. That's the same thing with guys that me. Way more and up. You, where you talk to him and they're like, well, where's you, so where did you get this contact? And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I was dealing with these guys. But then I went to prison for mid-D guys, six months or a year. And I got this guy now is getting it directly from the cartel. It's like, yeah, especially when you go to federal prison. You get to like the old media was the highest. You're ready

to all type with some people. Especially then, because they, people watch a character. They look at you in prison. Look, it's how you move. Right. And they're just approaching and say they're just getting to befriend you and start telling the story because they already be having a plan. They think of the same thing we think. Yeah. They think of the same thing. We thought, we're looking

for a plug and they're looking for somebody to give it to. Right. Because they got endless amounts of drills. Yeah. So like, okay, see, He'd sit like a good good guy. Let me lock in with him. Yeah, it's a mutual relationship. It's not like, like, they need people here and they need U.S. people. Like, they can ship, they can send over 50 Mexicans, but they'll eventually get picked up.

Like, they need an American that has a distribution network. That's it. That guy's worth his weight in gold. That's it. And I'll tell you, if I never get down to the low, I would have been that guy. Because it's all I knew. You know what I mean? I have been introduced them to learn a real estate and stop marketing all this shit.

All I knew was her, I knew a set of drills. I hadn't been doing since I was a kid. So I learned who set a drug. If I'd never make it down to, I was just definitely, definitely would have been selling way more drawers than I was sold. I mean, versus me getting locked up by the fed for five to ten keys of cocaine. Conspiracy, it would have been 100 to 150 the next round. So what was the next thing?

What happened? You had this network, the gang, you're getting more and more members. you're you're making money like what was the next like whether there are any obstacles things that came up um arrests yeah so oh we're gonna get we're gonna get into the me there right so when you first were you for me me i mean i asked me like what happened with my fingers you know what i mean so by now my little brother my younger brother but one same one i told you that was a gatekeeper that was bringing everybody in right the case may be How old were you at this point?

My other brother got killed. I got Pete and about to fade right out of the soul. My other brother got killed. He was 24. I had to be around 27. 20, wait, you're 26, 27. And that whole time, you never got to rat. You didn't sit.

Go to do any prison time? Yeah, well, I went to the prison twice. Well, I went to the two sitting there with a state prison. But I was talking about my brother. But, okay, yeah, tell me about the state prison. Okay, cool. So I was 20. Three, I believe, when I were to stay prison.

I would have stayed prison for one. I told me they were raised in my grandmother's house and got the drug. No, no, no, no. Do you know how sad it is that you don't know what the different? It was the, I've been a lot of those so much, man. So I went to stay prison in 08. Right. In 08, I went to stay prison.

Then my first time really going to be in the state prison in the state prison, 08. When I went to stay prison, oh, yeah, I went to state prison because it was a funny story. I went to my baby mom out to give some drawers, right? But I got two girls in the car with me and I got my brother in the car with me. So I don't have a license. Yeah, we got two girls.

Yeah, I go to a... I feel like that's a bad... That's just a bad... I was saying I just called. I used to send me shit. Like... I've seen the people. I've seen the drawer unit,

but I ain't thinking of it for me because I was in a rental car. Right. So I'm not thinking there to draw. You just follow me whole time. They focus me, follow me all day long in our mall calls. Are you just feeling like invincible?

at this point is that well definitely was feeling invincible definitely was feeling invincible because you got to think about it by the time i make it 08 by the time i right far away the state prison by nine i'm a household name right the police don't even approach me the same anymore i got i got they don't even they ask permission to even approach me police is approaching me differently on doing whatever i want to do guard i'm not paying to get in clubs i'm not waiting lines by now i don't became visible i'm a household name and i'll be to George. I'm Travis Luke now. So I go to my baby

on my house. I get to rules. I'm going to go serve a guy who will save me up at a time nice. You're going to laugh at this. He's a big man with sleeve balls. Sleavesball? There's not a problem with him. He sounds like a solid guy. I'm going to deal with these guys in prison. They like can't do right. Right.

It's like, well, I can't get right. All that type of shit. So I'll go up there. I want to go get some drugs. for my baby mom or my house to go surre sleeve all what i'm seeing like i'm saying like i'm saying any little arm walled calls but i'm like man it can't be for me because i'm in run a car i'm not in my normal vehicle yeah they'll never figure this yeah this shit can't be for me it's for me the whole time no it's for me the whole time and i could have got those slippery bastards man i could have got rid of drool so many times because like and i'm kind of like

damn if they're following me so i'm making certain turns i could have threw drawers out of window at any point of time. I'm just like, nah, this can't be for me. Boom. When I realize for me, I come up with a plan.

I don't say nothing to nobody in the car. My brother's in the past seat. I've got the two girls in the backseat. I never say nothing to nobody. My brother, nobody. So by now, like, damn,

they default. Really, they'll follow me. They on me. So I make a turn on the street. The street called Macop. If you go down Macop, it's a quick turn. So like, it's a long street.

Then it's like, boom, boom. So I'm like, okay, if I could lose her right here and get rid of the drug. so I'd be all right. So as soon as I turn on the street, I'll make out, I hit the gas. Now, the girl's in the car.

Everybody looking like, what, what, what going on? I get a little lead with on the drill unit, made my two-turn. I get out of the car, tell my brother to get in the driver's side and try to drive up. But by now, by the time he can get over

to the driver's seat, they don't swir in the car. But I don't throw the drawers up on the par car and got in the car with sleeve all. We'll see how many. He doesn't have any drugs on them. So I'm sitting in the bad seat

I'm thinking straight like shit I don't got the drawers on me like What we go from here? They get him a brother out of the car They get the girls out of the car They come and give me sleeve ball And the other guy to get all those out of the car So I'm just sitting out on the grinding handcuts

I'm thinking I'm straight I don't know the sleeve while we got no handcuts on He's just standing there He's pretty cozy So this is what he's doing He's telling the police what the draw say hey they right they they right though have you think they put just just for appearances they put the cuffs on him this this this this story is bad so boom they

look him he get the droves they end up locking me up he end up getting out on bond while I'm old bun go right back to send the drills I'm not stopping right stop him so me and one of my other little powder weave we in a car together I can't I think it was just me and him. I'm going to go service. I'm not knowing he's trying to sit in me trying to sit me up too. But I only got, like, I got a small amount of droves on me. There ain't a lot.

You know what? Cray thing about it? I don't want to give him something. I don't even go on a server. I'll just shoot to just give him something. I'll just shoot to just give him some. He ended up in his spot. Police ended up getting behind us.

I ain't know jumping out trying to, I ate some of the drills. Okay. What? I'm gonna try to get rid of the drug. Am I around bar? Am I ready on bar for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the first group of charge. And my first group of charges is crazy because they charged me with, uh, a tin to sell all cocaine. Well, with the tend to sell cocaine, with the tent to sell wheat.

But the problem was, I was by a school. I was by a project. So they added on. Yeah, your hand-enancements. Oh, man, had like, had like eight, nine charges. So, one. When we get pulled up at this spot, they end up in a swarm. I end up eating the drugs.

this can just get bad so i they got to take me to the hospital right so i'm sitting in the hospital they're trying to make me drink this stuff i never forget it something she looked like chaco i don't know what they were they're trying to make me drink they don't have me hooked up to nothing i'm just sitting in the bed and i got all these little monitors and shit on me that you're trying to make me drink still so i ain't no drank it so i'm sitting there i'm really like i don't have him in the handcuffs on i'm just sitting here so now i got this housepillar guy on him so i go to the door i like look out the door and like the police officer he ought to talk to the nurses.

I realized they're watching me through the, through the... Yeah, don't start to go. If you pull them off, they'll beat, right. Huh. No, that do. People again, it's like, it's no way these people trying me like this. It's got to be these people. It's not trying me like this.

Look again, strike out running. It's like, no bullshit. How old ass out of the hospital snashing the shit off and just when it ran the head. So I'm outside in this park with a fucking hospital drawn on with no draws on no side so I just got on a hospital gown I'm out in the place cold as shit

so it's cold as else I don't have a phone I can't call anybody but think about it damn I got an ex-girlfriend that live close by I don't have any clothes so now I got to figure out how the fuck I'm gonna get from point A to point B for what I find out which is

probably shit 10 minutes 10-15 men on feet on feet yeah because I can't call I don't got nobody to call and who are right you don't have a cell phone in. And who I'm going to run up on with a house for a guy on them to them to use their phone? Right. So now I'm just, I'm running out of air list, jumping fences. I'm just, I'm just going all kinds of ways to try to get to

this girl house. So I'm finally making, father make it to the house. When I had to get in the phone call, my mother, tell her mom what happened. She was like, turn yourself in. Like, tell me myself in. That is, that is not happening. Forget about me. Turn my, I'm not turning myself in. My grandmother ended up coming to get me. and I end up being on the run for the police for like for the longest like they was looking for me for the longest meanwhile real quick did you drink the stuff yeah I drunk stuff what does that do make you throw up

it make it by this point have you throw it up and no okay I throw up while I'm running I skewed it for I'm doing all throwing up in the park is till part that's the name of the crazy long of there's like what the park is like the police station is like right in the area right like two times turns we at the police station two turns we at the police station so I end up getting getting with um getting with my mom to create fun and shit though my grandma was like watching me every day like I'm like you want smoke crack why would you think I'm not smoking any crack what you why would you think that because I was half like two weeks oh yeah yeah because I ate the crack right so I was like half a two week but anyway I'm on the run and I'm still I'm still

seven draw like it over there y'all catch me y'all catch me y'all catch me y'all from how we do what I'm running from. They, the high speed chasing. They end up, the same baby mom of my house, I just told you about, that I went to go get drawers out of, right. Me being, me thinking I'm invincible. They came forward.

They still got drawers in the house. So I'm leaving the house. They get behind me again. Watch some more the shit I could ever did. When they get, when the draw unit get behind me from leaving my baby mama house, I take them in a circle, jump out of the car and right back to my baby mom out.

Right. But I ain't no fleshing. probably like 14 ounces of crap ain't no flesh in like a bunch of cocaine and the crazy this the war shit sorry what happened is sleazeball freaking nothing now I said Leibbaugh ain't getting in a motorcycle accident

and messing his leg up bad like a lid was dead or some weird shit like he's on on crushes or some shit like and I don't know with sleeve all that to the day yeah I don't I don't know what sleeve all that to the day I don't know I don't know what yet So, all right, so you were saying, you went back, you flushed the stuff. Yep, sorry.

So I'm flushing out of cocaine, all the weed, I'm trying to flush out of the fucking toilet stops up. Because I'm panicking and I'm flushing the, I'm flushing the shit. Everything's stealing plaster bag. I'm not, I'm a dime instead of taking out of the plastic bag. I'm just like an ounce of cocaine out of ounce of cocaine and crack out the crab just trying to flush it down and toilet to get rid of. Well, the police, they never come in the house. they never come down i don't flush so much drawers and flooded the house so bad that the water coming through the ceiling you know who i had a call right my business park she come over she

take a hanger she get a hangar all back out dry it out resell it it it's all gone it's all gone by that night say what all we can say yeah we were back into it back at but i end up getting caught and going that was my first i ended up getting caught by and they end on going to state prison that was my first time on the state they gave me my first time on state period they gave me a 10 do five no 20 do five they're trying to do five how does that work you you're your sentence is 20 you only have to do a five inside then you're on paper for 15 that's no before we started any of you I tell you I don't get out I want to get out probation I don't get out probation till 43 or some shit so life when I got released for federal prison I got released to state probation and federal probation so I got

two separate probation officers right now I have two server probationers. So like I feel like they don't trust you. I don't feel like they think you're going to do the right thing. You know, what's fun is they don't want to give them to the stores. Now you know that I do a lot of work with the keys and you trying to keep them out of game. Yes. The chief of police literally told me that he said, we don't trust you.

Oh, the agents that don't trust you. That's why they wouldn't work with me. In Ardap, they would say that he's holding resentment. That ain't holding resentment. Man, listen, you're not willing. You're not willing to trust. You're not, that's, I hate it, Ardell. I'm gonna try

I know since you was on you can manipulate them like you're really you went down and had a good time I turned that shit down twice

like every time they call him out like you're ready to tell all that no I'm gonna take it in another spot it's no way I could take when I knew I couldn't take

Ardow is when I think a guy got pulled off he got rolled back because he came outside with his slice on

yeah instead of it's something you shouldn't do what are you thinking you can't do that I was like he was raised you bag like you're not going home oh fuck and i'm not taking out i know i know for the fact you

you were brushing your teeth and you didn't shut off the water you left the water running oh no no i i knew for a fair did i knew for a fat did i knew for a fat and man just kind of stopped me and my friend we went to order listen i had like i had to pick my back what's like i can't i got enough from my rob i'm like what's so man i can't talk i can't tell me right now i mean what's up i can't talk me right now nice i'm you walk around scared all the time It's like, they be everywhere. Oh, yeah. Listen, you be, I, so did you, you did it, right?

When I needed another prison. I was the man. I taught classes. I was perfect. I had a cell phone. I was sitting droll. It was just perfect. The other clubbed was perfect.

I could have, I could have never pulled off at Coleman. Remember the morning meeting when everybody's facing you to the right? Like, guys would, guys were so scared there that guys were like, somebody would say something. And they start to talk to you and guys would be like, I mean, it was like, they're terrified. The buddy system, you got to go out. They got to go out. What did that thing with the buddy system?

They want to go outside. Other had to go outside. No, what was that? Let me see. Every program's a little bit different, you know what? I was an age. I loved it. I listened.

I couldn't never, never finish Coleman. Never. Yeah, never. Somebody told, well, Zach was basically telling me, like, art app like in the in like the pens and stuff like you know the whole pulling someone yeah yeah like they do pull-ups but it's it's completely okay it's it works together absolutely orchestrated so i start i started i started saying in the ardup turn a blind eye get a black eye yeah so just don't tell me like we're gonna get we know we need two pull-ups we're gonna put them to pull-up together right

we're gonna give you your feedback we're gonna tell them you gonna read a book and you write a book report if you just go and tell you're gonna get a black eye so turn a blind eye or get a black eye because you know what they say you know you get pulled and turn the blind eye

and you're gonna pull them up so he was like blind eye get a black eye you're um what do you're off I forget what they um

what is it when you I can't believe I can't oh you forgot your favorite program you forgot what that's correct I wrote a book about it I'm gonna give you the book

if I call it the program you wrote a book by it's insanity yeah because it was like a whole another community like it was like a prism. Oh, man. Come on. It's when you're, it's when you're, um, it's when you're, um, let me, uh, come in. Well, my, she're, when you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, enabling, thank you. Yeah, you're enabling. Yeah, you would know, always know the orchestrated ones where

somebody pulls somebody up. I noticed that your, your uniform isn't ironed today. And, and, or that you need a haircut or you haven't been shaving regularly, uh, uh, uh, uh, you're not taking. And then they would have something. And everybody, everybody's like, come on, now, you're serious. You remember they used to me? And then this is cold. They do this air shit. This one of the reason why I knew for a fact I won't make any cold. When they need to see your phone calls and he was talking to more than a woman.

Yeah. And then they make your call. They'll make your call to be like, tell the other woman, okay, I told him this woman like, what? No. Yeah. He'd pull up. So they had a guy one time. There was two things out.

But one, guys talking to two girls working both of them, right? So they made him pick which one and call the other girl and tell. her, I've been talking to this other girl, this other woman, and I've been telling her this and this and I wanted to come clean and tell you the truth. And then calls the other girls, says, look, I've been talking to her and I'm going to be with her when I get out and basically kick the other one on the curb. Another time was a guy was, he was about, he got his time off. Like, he's literally, he's about to graduate and go straight to a halfway house. The girl had put a couple thousand dollars on his books. He'd con, oh, yeah, I don't,

to give her a couple, he convinced this chick to put a couple thousand on. his book so that he had money when he hit the halfway house he could get a phone he could get now she could have bought all that for him but he had her convinced because he was got to cut her loose right like give me three grand she'd saved up money sent him three grand and so the DTSs found out listened to the call probably somebody else told on him but you probably ragged about it ragged about it but they listened to call they brought them in and they were like you have to either you can get kicked out of Ardap, lose your year. You're definitely not coming back to this art app.

So I don't know where you're going to play Ardap, do Ardap. So you just lost a year. You're going to do another year or you give her the money back. Of course I'm going to give her the money. Thank God you told me about that. I'm embarrassed. I took the money. I got where they were talking.

I don't know. I should have never took the money. I would be manipulative. It was no way that I could complete Ardap in all cold. It was no way possible. That's why I never tried. Like it would call me until I turned that program. and I probably like two or three times.

But it is for your program, oh, this bitch program, you know, everybody graduating. See, L.D. You learned anything at that. I really did learn everything. I really did. I taught classes. I was the teacher.

I taught the material. I did great. Everybody graduated on time. Everybody went home. Everybody, everybody signed the roster, even if they didn't come to class. Everybody, definitely signed the roster. Yeah.

Even if you know, if you don't know the material, don't worry about it. I got you. All right. I'm going to make it work for you. That's how I taught the real estate class. You give me a coffee and two creamers and you're going to pass the test. You're going to get the certificate. Hey, man, I remember when I was in that class, man, you used to talk so much shit to know people. I just be looking at a classroom and I'm like, I'm going to just shit the fuck up.

Come me and Matt are going to get the fight. Matt didn't say he that bass. I'm going to just shit the fuck up. I'm just not going to say. They were there learned. There was always something. There was always some, some guys are asking. It's a challenge to you.

like yeah I didn't take in the claims if you are we to know right like why you'd say and I'll just sit you know like listen I was a gangster I would in that clash on yourself I was chained phone in that class that's like I always I always tell Jess I said listen over the telephone I'm fucking six foot tall I'm a badass over the telephone you get in front of me you're gonna get a different version of Matt Cox I'm like listen I know I understand I can see how you're mad but over the phone I'm a bad in that class like I was king of that class and they all want they all thought I'm going to learn I'm going to get out

and I'm going to do this So to them This was a way To come up with a plan Where they could make a bunch of money And not have to go out and sell drugs Yep And the other thing about that program too

Is by the way And I know if I know you heard me say this Is that real estate is so funny Because people in real estate Watch this program So they probably appreciate this But it's absolutely true

In real estate And flipping houses is probably one of those few areas where being a drug dealer is a huge benefit. Because you know everybody in that neighborhood. You're not afraid to go in those neighborhoods. You're not afraid to knock on those doors. People will give you a good deal, right? Because they'll sell the houses to you.

And they would, and a lot of times, and I've had this happen to me, where in those communities, a lot of times, they would rather sell it to other black people within the community than to sell it to some white guy, you know? So a lot of times you can get good deals. And you can help fix those houses up and flip them. So the hustler mentality of a drug dealer is to your benefit because a 35-year-old divorced white woman isn't going to go knock on door

in a neighborhood next to the project. No, no. So it was one of those times where, and those guys could see what I was saying. Like the money, it makes sense. It's not that hard. No. So once you understand that, okay, so you buy it for this, you do this, you do this, you sell it, you make that, you know, once you start kind of understand, you buy low, sell high. I mean, it's not hard. No. So, yeah, I mean, so those guys love that class. Yeah, you, I love it. I think I took your Claire twice. I thought I had somebody else sign off of him. And I took your Claire twice. I had somebody to sign up. But you teach, well, they all the time that you was an asshole one. They tried to try to challenge you. Or they were just asking the same question, no, no. Essentially these guys would say just stupid shit, I'd see it coming to. I just like me saying like, man, minus six bullshit.

Oh, well, there's always, there's always some guy, there would always be some guy who I would say, so you buy the house for 80,000, you fix it up for 20, you sell it for 140, you make like 40 gram, right? But you also have to pay this and I start doing breaking it down. So ultimately you end up making a profit of, let's say, $30,000. And there'd always be some jackass who would sit there and say, man, but then you got to pay taxes on that $30,000. What? And so, you know, and that was, you know, that was using my response. And like, are you telling me that's your problem with this scenario that you're afraid. Damn it. Now I have to pay taxes. Well, then go work at McDonald's. Have the, how do you take the taxes out? You can ride your bicycle to the room that you're renting. And so I had all these. Sue that be smart ass. Yeah. See what I mean? I just, I just, I just sit there like. But I mean, like, like, or, you know, and so like if, if, if paying taxes. or avoiding taxes is your biggest problem. That's a problem I want to have. I want to have a problem where I'm making so much money.

My biggest problem is that I have to try and figure out how to pay as little taxes as possible. Like, that's not an issue. So I would say that. And of course, then the guy would shut him down and he, this fucking prick. But you wouldn't say anything else again. Then I'm good. And I taught the class so many times that you have the same basic time for the people. So they say the same stuff.

have the same smart ass content you get to be really good at it you can do also real good at it's real good good listen i had guys that would walk out of that class and shake my hand i had guys when i was teaching the medium there were guys that i wouldn't look in the face i was so scared of them they were six foot three they got like a third year or soothed they've been locked up 20 years and i'm walking by these guys and all of a sudden i'd hear Cox and i'd be like oh what and they go do class i'm like okay they figure figure you know and then they'd walk out of class like the next day we teach class and guys would walk in and be like hey cox and i'd be like yeah what's up they go hey man it was good class and i shake my hey okay they oh because you definitely taught a good class

even when you you mind to create it and you taught a great clay and i give you that it's somebody was asking them dumb ass question they did it was the you know what the problem with that is the only time i ever had an issue and then we'll get right back to this but um the only time i ever had an issue was where these guys would go um they would say uh why are you telling everybody all this like like doing the rooming houses or whatever flip it out there but man why are you telling everybody all this and you know they're going to go out and they'll do it and then they're going to ruin it for everybody and i'd say what first of all do you realize i could tell a thousand people how to do this it's an absolute formula that will absolutely work the truth is what most people

have a lack is the confidence to do it. They don't follow it through. Right. They won't follow it through. They won't risk it. Most people have a multi-million dollar idea within their lifetime. I don't know about you, but most people are not multi-millionaires because they just didn't. They won't act on it. It's safer to get a job, a regular job, W-2 job and work that job that it is to say, hey, I have an idea and I think it'll work. And it's going to take a little bit of money and some time on the weekend. I'm going to have to not watch that Netflix special. I'm going to have to work on Saturdays for the next two months. Right. But I think it will work. Most people will say,

nah, man, I'm not going to do that. They're not going to risk that. They're not going to it's too much. Would that go back to what you were saying about the hustling mentality? You know what I mean? Where the hustler going into the real estate market, how they could succeed because just for me. So with me selling multiple droves, how I supplement that to keep me from going back and we want to do that because my addition was the selling drawers. Like I just the kick that I got out of hustling the drugs. So now that's why I got into multiple different businesses. So I'm the opposite.

I don't mind the time because I want to do it anyway. Like seven jobs, like seven jobs, like you don't take off. I mean, you could take off, but you don't take off. It's a thing for seven job. People are going to call on Sunday. I just said, we talked to this guy here. Like, he's like, they'll call you at 1. They'll call you at 2.30.

They'll call you at 3. They'll call you at 3.45. He's like, and you got to go every time because they'll go to somebody else. Yep. And once they go to somebody else, you know, the people. product is better you did it yeah so that like remember i was just telling i used to sell a drawer side of my window so we had the accolidation window we'd have so we had the accolidation window so i would just slide the the lus there though whatever yeah um what they did a harmonica thing yeah so they

knock on the window i reached back slotted back be like hey uh what you want i'm like a 20 i'm sort of headboard top of 20 all get my 20 hours i would do this all night long so when the other draw the other was probably older having sex with this girlfriend or ate the club I was I was on I was an old enough getting the club I mean well I did have girls own for time time but for the most part I was right there so that's how I exploded with the drawers because I was always available then I kind of figured out early so if you got if you got you got a gram you can make a hundred dollars off of it if I can make 75 dollars okay I'm losing 25 but I can make 75 dollars so I'm made 25 dollars but if I could do that this minimal

times they don't make it the same money right so I I was giving, I was giving bigger pieces than everybody else at a young age. So like you say, they start going to other people. That's why you got to be able to answer the following and be there 24-7. By me, having that window, I made so much money through their little window. While my grandmother was in the other room. He's so much money. So what happened when you, so you went to, you went to jail on that charge.

You did, did you do five? I did by last game. I did right at three years. Okay, because in Georgia, you, you, you only, you, only do it's like 30% 40% I bought you got out earlier but I got in trouble I got caught okay let's get back to the store right oh sorry I go to state prison

while I'm in state prison I mean Moscow County prison they can look this up on me in Muscogee County Prison over in Columbus Georgia while in prison I got a cell phone on detail I was just out on detail

and they let me out on detail it's like I was free right People are dropping shit off for you. No. Why would you put me on detail in a nursing home? Okay. Who works in nursing home? Right.

So soon as I get down on my first day and they got this old thing, the thing for Philippine. He was from the Philippines. He was my office. The press who watched over. His name was Joe. I never forget him. He hated his sister. So he was awful and the bullshit I needed to do.

He was cool with it long as I didn't do it in front of him. Right. I just don't, you know, I'm giving you this one time. So Joe would leave one o'clock. He would always come like at three. And they had this little. We was on a nurse's home, but they had this building where we had all the tools that for the cleaner windows and knew all the shit that we need to do on detail.

So Joe would leave for one to three on lunch break. We wouldn't do whatever else to hell he was doing. So I would have two hours and do whatever I wanted to do. So, of course, while I'm walking around in the nursing homes and doing all the shit, I'm, you know, iron women down. I would, so I will write my phone number down on pieces of paper and I will see what car they're going to get in. So the morning we clean the parcel out of, I obviously need my phone on their window.

Of course, they're going to end up getting the phone. They know that's one of us. It's only two prison guys that are working on the compound. I started dating like two of the girls. One of them actually came and seen when I got out of prison. So it was Tay and other deer with it. I forget other girl. I ended up

two of the girls so from one to three I would fuck them right yeah that was my that was my time to do what I need to do

but the guys the janitors they were they were getting mad about it because we I was just leaving

my phone I didn't care I don't know these girls in prison I was just leaving my phone on everybody

call they ain't telling them so they end up brain the prison guards so they end up if the shit was so fun

I see the man I see the prisoner coming CEO coming into the little builder and I told me was to be at we all the tools and shit were up so I'm sitting now I got a little bit of bought a patrol I got a phone on my hand I got a sandwich so this is not look like inmate work release and often I was I was imagine I said your mind is something serious because I don't think I'm going to do anything wrong right this point for one and three I'm basically free right

I don't have nobody watching me I'm basically do whatever I want to do because I made a little kind of count because in Georgia if you don't have you have a nonviolent crying nine to my team they don't seem to like level fives and all that type of shit so when the guard walks in in I got a phone in this hand I got a sandwich in hand I got some some look on the floor and he walks in he's like what is that and I'm like a sandwich he like pa what's that of your ass or like she I pop it is a flip phone so I pop it I play like literally like walk path to guard I slid past him and with a flush like we get you a rouser for You already call me a fool.

You already caught me with it. But I can't let you get this phone because I got these girl numbers and I don't want to get these girls in trouble. They end up charging me while I was in prison, giving me five more years for the cell phone. But what they did, they ran together. So that's why I ended up doing like probably eight, nine months or some shit like that. So you act like it's shocking that they charged you. You had a cell phone, liquor, and I wasn't in fruit. That's nuts.

Well, guess what? He's backing you up. Like, he's shaking and said like, yeah, yeah. You're still incarcerated. Guess what the argument was at the DA? What? I'm state property. So by me having it on me, I had the phone on state property.

Because my algorithm was out on detail. I'm not in the prison. So it's like, I wasn't in. But they tried to say that. I'm state property. Like the priors. They tried to use me. Yes, the priors.

like that shit don't make any sense but for them it made sense to somebody for doing it makes sense but that didn't help that shit I think I stayed in they ended up letting me go back out on detail but at first they made me work in the barbershock clean my hair right so they end of letting me go back on what's called the buttertruck

the fucking flat surface you take the jackhammer and bust up the concrete and uh well with the hell when you redoing rolls like roll be having cracks or shit in it yeah got with a jaw called But they had me out there doing that shit And I was like, I'm not doing this shit

So I realized It's like I walked a little bit One day like damn I can kind of walk a little far He ain't The guard and he said shit Now but this side I got a guard They got a gun It's a different situation

But he keep letting me walk up the street It's like hi He can't let me walk up the street I'm just testing him See how I'm gonna let me walk out He let me walk out far enough The same girl tell you Did I made a nurse on

I had her to meet me I had her to meet me You know what to be You know, give me a little bit And walk back now He was like, where you was it? I just walked down the street It's a fresh out

Yeah I'm back now, what's up What you need me to do? But I end up I ended up, it's crazy Like I ended up getting out of prison For that and I came straight home Until a conspiracy

Like this conspiracy was already going on It had me It was like two years in By the time I came home You didn't get out and, like, get a regular job. And, you know, no bull units are selling life insurance or, you know, I'd be as you not, bro.

And I'll, I'm true story. I come home, it's like April of the first of some shit. I remember being right at Easter. So they had this big old, oh, cookout, you know, it wasn't for me. It was just for the city, just on Easter. And I remember asking, like, so who were in the city and I'm like, who got the drools? So I'm probably out, probably about two days. But by then, like, yeah, plenty of times there.

Yeah, about two days. By then, I had somebody that gave me some drills, they gave me some money, like, but now I'm just trying to figure out who was running shit now because then I really didn't know what was going on time came home. So they went to point out, okay, he ran this, he ran that. So, like, as soon as I get to the field, I, like, approach these guys, like,

what's up, bro, I heard you, you know. Got some, that's something going on, you work, no. So to keep me off, when they threw me a party that I even know about people coming in me, like, bro, you having a party at the sand truck. This is a club, and I've been like, no, I haven't known about a party. Whole time to you guys did,

I don't approach. They got the money now. They got the clout in the cedar with the drills. They don't put together me a party. They got one of my old boys and brought me an outfit for shoes like he was going to save him. No. I need him. What do you mean?

What is going to save him? Like you were going to take over. So they were hoping they could hold you off by like being my free. Being buddies with you and kind of just shuffling you a little bit of money. No, that will not have. Like you could just be a foot soldier now. That's what I'll happen. I need him.

Just need, you know, just give me, give me enough, and I leave you alone. I don't worry about me. And to watch that then, like, I had one of my partners to take one dual necklace, just, just making my print. I'm back home. I need it. So I came home straight to the conspiracy. So that's why by the time, I think I was out 19 months before the fed peeped me up. So you came home and there was all, when you say that, conspiracy, there was already, there was already, um, the guy that I came on dealing with.

they already had a conspiracy going on. So they were already, they were already, they were already, you just stepped into the investigations here. They add your name to the list. Oh, yeah. Look, we got another one. You know, remember I tell you? Like, before, before I went to state prison, we got, we're going to get back into the

game thing, but about then I had to talk over. Like, the bloods was the top gang in the city. We had numbers up. We were raising all. We were doing all the bullshit. So when I came home from state prison, they was already on the end of it. Like, we got to get him because I came straight back home, straight back to the drug, a straight man said the guy didn't take a day off no job and i think i probably had a job

once or twice i haven't yeah i'm gonna tell you i had a job they sears i sold normal i sold large equipment and even then i was serving the store management of cocaine so i was just leaving every day at 12 but my probation also made me get a job my first my first of the child just i never had a job if they're jerks like that yeah they made me a job i didn't see no reason for me to need a job i was paying my fines Selling, first of all, how are they, they have to put it together, like, well, you don't have a job. How are you paying her fine? And I can't see you selling, I can't see you. I can't see, yeah, no, this would see better than what we had in prison.

We didn't need to push ones in prison. People are walking on. What's wrong? So I was saying, no, boy, that's the only job I wrote their seers. I ain't, the district manager ain't of fire me because he came in, get these, you on these points. So he was like, this guy's never ate work. he only comes there for a couple of hours and leave he ended up fireman

but I was serving the dude the actual person over the store I would serve him cocaine and I was like bro I really don't want to work right to keep all the commission I don't care about none of that shit I'm just here come on probation also made me come

but straight out of state prison I made even think about getting a job that wouldn't even what I'm doing the job nothing I could do with the job at that time so basically after that I got it back into the groove of You know what I mean? I started getting the British cocaine, start getting weed or whatever the K-nay-be. But, uh, I got out of state prison in 2010. My little brother got killed 2012. So that incident right though, man, that was that was the incident where I kind of knew

that the federal government was on me. I do I had them. I had fucked up, you know what I'd be. by the reason being it because they i got pulled over and i had probably like probably had like like for the 50 thousand dollars on you know something like that is this before he got killed yeah there was right out he got killed well how first first how did he get killed oh but so there's a touch of subject for me but but i wish the 205th uh is one of my all close friend birthdays so we had a big old part or whatever the case may be I gotta tell you this party lead up or how he ain't going to get killed we had a big old part of and we had like two limo limousines and part of buses and we just had a whole bunch of shit going on

and out of the club I was trying to go be with a girl and I had two but I had Bama and May Day so I think I had two of my forces with me and they was going to basically walk into the girl car and I thought you know they were once I get in the car I was going to separate

but I had told my little brother like they'd get in my limo and I have you in the limous and drive the car and get me when I finished with the girl because I had to go home and I mean the girl

with my girlfriend and just somebody that I had met while I was at the club all right when we walked toward the back of the club I don't know

it's some guys back here aiming in the wrong so And the dude started with it back to the wall. He ended up raising up the shotgun. But what happened was if I was too close to the wall and he raised a shotgun or the pointed at me.

So when he raised it, kind of like went past me and I grabbed it. So I ended up wrestling down my Air Force, they end up getting with the dudes or whatever came to me. So I end up taking the gun from me, but the gun fell out my hand, but I automatically pulled my gun. And I just started shooting back in the bag. I don't know. I'm just shooting while for me.

I'm just shooting because I, they shoot. I don't shoot her. Everybody scouted go this separate way I ain't know still getting in the call with a girl remember I told you

my little brother got in my little right so he goes to this then all hang out called Shackleford is just

where everybody go out of the club after this incident happened I don't want to go with a girl no more

just trying to go to go my people trying to go around my hall balls whatever came

me we put there to this spot Kyle Shackleford and my little sister her car

is like two cars four so what I do I jump by running my little sister, I gave her to guard, the guard that I would just use because I didn't know if I had shot

somebody. Right. I was just shooting in the blind. Right. I mean, so I gave my little sister the gun, but she's looking across the park a lot. And she like, come, I got on baby blue, true allegiance, and my little brother got on a red true religion. She was like, I think that tailed up fighting with it's way across the park lot.

So I'm looking, like, that it'll take. So I get the running through, but it's cars, it's people. There's a whole bunch of shit going on. So I get the runner through the park lot to get them with a little brother. In the process, me running through these calls and these people, I see the dude, my little brother got a squeegee. When you clean the window up, he beating the dude with a squeegee. The dude ended up tan away from my little brother and ran out to the car.

He goes to the car and somebody had him a gun. Right. He turned the gun around. He pointed my little brother. So I'm right in front of the gun and get shot in his hand first. That's why I missed this phone. But I don't know. going to hit. Now, I don't know my little brother here. I don't know. I don't know nothing.

The only thing I'm trying to do is say my brother. Right. I mean, that's all I'm trying to do because I, me being in the street, so I always tell people that the dude with the gun that just, more than likely, he probably not going to shoot you. Right. If you see a guy pointing a gun, he takes a step back, he's scared. Don't going to be normally the guys that's going to shoot you. The guy that backs away. If he, if he got a gun, he back away from you, then he sees you as a serious, serious threat so i see the guy i'm like man he finished shoot my brother i ran in front of the gun he shoot me in his hand i end up wrapping up with him and we end up tussing him and he just was whole time he was squealing he was just shoot he shot knocked off this flanker knocked out this

finger knocked out this finger i got shot in the i got one straight in my leg and i got um one went in my on rifle it came out the bottom of it um it was so crazy because um dude name gregor hot top I never forget it. He pulled, he basically pulled me from the dude because the dude wasn't going to start shooting. Right. He just, I guess he had to mind me, you know. So he ain't up.

That ain't gonna get shoot, shot in the foot. When he pulled me, I slipped now and the dude was still shoot. He ain't know shoot me in my foot. I never forget it. I was laying down between a, a burgundy, the expedition, and a silver Nissan, I believe. Now, I remember looking over and seeing my little brother on the ground. I just like, fuck.

And they ain't up, except we, he ain't on a while car. I ain't on going to another car to the hospital. And I know, you know, I'm in the hospital bed. I just keep asking like, well, my brother, my brother. And the doctor was just like, oh, he did. Like, he was a doll or some shit. So I ain't, you know, trying to jump out of the bed, fight with the fight with the arm. And stuff out of the bed trying to fight the doctor and all that type of shit.

So that's where, that's where, you know, you made me into prison. I was like, bro, you know, I allowed. wanted to know what happened with my fingers so that basically what happened with my fingers and they're crazy things about it by then i had accumulated so much power and my my team was so active like i was just like i was the biggest guy by then i had the most influenced by then i had i had them beat all kinds of charges i had been now i'm telling man i had been in every interrogation room in all kind like every interrogation room i had been in one room at some point i for remember going going into the police station and they

they had this boy they had by my name they had travel looking by they had ghost and the reason why it's because I'm gonna get out of there as soon as some shit happened I'm gone and they never really could catch me know what I mean like I really like all the all this not a percent of the shit that they had me down before I probably did sorry you know what I mean but they really never could they never could really get me for all that shit like I don't got out of but I had to say that to say this for I say six days

I had no contact with outside rural they took they had they blocked off half of the hall Florida I thought

was on the night floor they blocked off the floor the hospital reeds the bed because when they happened that happened

with my little brother they they had to shut the city out they had to put extra police at the schools they locked

the jail houses now they locked that they basically locked the city down trying to keep it from getting

out of hand right I had no telephone no TV nothing and I wouldn't even on a race. They were just their tactic or keeping me from

right from saying hey this is in it this is what needs to happen right right but are things happening automatically without that was I'm the same thing they could have did it was happening so bad and I'd be you know what I mean I could speak on a night

but I'd be honest like my mama but you know some bad thing is turn good people worse you know what I mean bad thing to turn good people I say that to say that my mama she didn't even try to stop like she knew what was going on and she knew what was happening they just was like shit they took my baby like I don't care like I remember my

mama calling me she used to drive around these little bus stop and she'll call me like I'm over here on this street like and they outside out run all of them over and I just like no I don't do that I got it I mean to chill so it was it was a bad situation but go back to the hospital situation And, you know, if you hang around me, I ain't really never really been a religious person, but I could just say that I know that something, something digging to me had to be in the place because the one, they only had one nurse.

I couldn't, nobody else come to my room. They kind of had the flow blocked off. I really couldn't deal with nobody with this one nurse. And this lady, she hadn't taken me for a long time. They had me with this morphine shit. Like, drip it, I'm going to sleep. I'm out of it for you, for days. Like I'm out of it, probably every day,

they see me this morphine. And just at this one part of time Yesterday they hadn't made their mind They were just going to let me out Let him out half of them And this lady she said You know my son I said I don't know my son

She said baby please don't kill my son I know your son there So she told me her son name And this same dude He didn't do that of my brother But he just He just had a crazy mouth on You know what I mean

He raped and shit He did music and shit And she just like Don't kill my son And she just like I ended the same later they've been in here taking care me for like four, five days, you know what I mean? And they, they, shit was crazy because they didn't let me talk to my mama, my kids, my brothers,

my sister. I couldn't talk to nobody. He just literally isolated me from the world. And it didn't help because all kinds of stuff, even until their day, even to their day, on that day that my little brother got something going to happen, even to this day, somebody going to get into some type of fights or somebody going to get shot or something going to get shot up, even to this day and it ain't my daughter and I

and like me you know people used to tell me you can't tell me how to feel about taking a kid because I had my own love for Taye right

you know what I mean so when the police and that one of the reason why the feds really came in and got on me to get me out of the pitch

which only made shit worse because prior to me going in jail I had it was just like me and

my group of blood and one more other group now and man there's so many different blood sets in that city I can't even

keep up with it so What happened to the guy that you were, you know, you were wrestling with that, with the gun that shot your brother? What happened to him? Oh, you know, going to prison. Okay. So with he... Did they get him right away?

No, he went on the wrong. He went on the wrong. And some of other guys would have with him shot each other to try to make a scene like I shot them, and it was just bad situations. All the reason, yeah, it was all the reason why. And they tried to charge me with all this stuff, but how I got out of their charges was they were trying to put me in two places at one time. remember i told you the situation happened at the on a sand truck right the club so it happened back to back so fast it's like oh he did this and he did this and my lawyer just like he's no way he did both so what did he do right he like did he did he shoot behind the sand trap did he do that or did he

incite this because they tried they tried to say that i incited the situation they got my brother killed so they was trying to charge me with my brother murder and right and i can speak on knock he don't when they beat it but i'm just not gonna say his night but one of the guys that i knew he he was a real security but he was part of my situation let's just say that right he got the shooting trying to shoot back at the guys that was shooting in or shooting in sebastian and what was a in or shooting a girl so it was just bad it was all right situation did you shoot it when you were firing back at that guy when you were blindly firing did anybody got hit i don't know oh okay just to just right so you couldn't have been there

and gotten all the way to where you guys were with the limo and because by the time you got there it was already it was already happening and then you had to run across the thing so they were trying to say you were there first you started the whole thing you were there the whole time and it wouldn't have made sense because they there was family dollars in some most store they had footage from right so it they may say but that was just one of a place to try to get me away for you know what me get me off the street yeah get you tied up and throw them back in prison for a little because I was

I was getting away with it man listen no they used to try to charge me with so much though and they would just raid my mama houses and my grandmother's houses and they would just do shit like I feel I can remember one time they came to that's when my little brother got killed they came to my grandmother's house a lot of them I don't even remember what they came for but they came and they basically just arrested me with try with no charge

just you just came to get me and my little brother the one that got killed he was a loose cannon he got the organ with him and by him when he got all with him my gangstall arguing with him so it was just like my hood and the police is on the standoff with my mama my auntie my mom and my grandma and my aunties in the middle of it he was just like they body get the fighting and they ain't know they're grabbing my little brother and slamming them down shit so fun they ain't know slaving the down and he's just like that baby asslam like like and oh oh and hey everyone they got these little ziltile shit something you know just like bro y'all chill out like what's up with y'all right at the police

But when I told you, the way the game tag for came in my neighborhood, they came in the middle of town. Wait, it wasn't Pete the little man off. Then to get to the big man, it's like, we at, we at war with y'all. Like, fuck y'all. Like, we're there again. We're a gang. What's up? That's how they basically came to my neighborhood when they first came.

So how long was it until you got arrested and went to prison? Problems. You can see. That was in August. Well, real quick, how much time did that guy get when he, I think, 8 to 5 years? He could have got 25 if he wanted to win a try. He could have got like 25. He got 8 to 5.

He could have got 25. So I think he felt like he was going to beat it because of who he was. Right. You know what I mean? It would have gave him like 20 or 25 years if he didn't go try. How did your little brother and him even get, like you saw it from a distance? and what actually happened there there was just a dispute

they got into a fight man you know you know it's crazy I think that was I should have realized that that's another incident that I should have got away from because it was just

only my little brother it was some more the gangs out of you know what I mean his gang and all gang was out of but my little brother was the only one get added

my little brother was the only one they got to fight you know what I mean everybody else especially when the gun came like everybody else basically just scared

they got out of the way so you don't know why they just got the different just being in several games in the same place. Remember, I told you about the boredom thing. Like, really, nobody can really tell you what the beef really be about.

It just basically be you crook on blood, you rot on blood, you GD on blood. That's really basically what the situation be. You know, really, it's really, really, really be nothing for it really to go that bad. Right. We're in separate, separate hoods. So, and then, so you got arrested following that, how much longer until you got arrested? So that happened then? August I got arrested

I think I stayed out another I was about another 15 months and what they arrested for standing beside somebody that sold some droves eight in the bidding how much times you're at

12 years but now when his eyes his eyes went so but that's the fed yeah that's a fit And the crazy, like, and the crazy thing about it is, is I'm, I missed the part of them to get back to.

When I told you that, okay, after my little brother got killed, shit, just started going back. Right. So right after that, it was another isolate incident that didn't have nothing to do with my brother getting killed or even, even the, you know, the games against the game. It was just another situation where my little cousin and one of my other friend got killed on the same street. And it was so crazy. Like, I was literally sitting on the front porch. I got up to go in the house. When I went in the house, I heard out of going.

gunshots by the time i ride the bad though the shooting and everything's over you know what i end up getting away from the seam because i already knew i couldn't be i couldn't be at ronets but they end up killing my partner demo and they end up killing my little cousin but my bugger i both of them end up getting killed in the shootout so when that happened the gang of tarifford started taking the hood again trying to find out what was going on it was crazy you would think that they would be raiding the other neighborhood when they was raiding the neighborhood where they was raiding the neighborhood with my little cousin and my my homie got killed that they were trying to get us locked up instead of trying to find out who killed them right in the

midst of it for whatever reason they got a tilt I don't know to the day they raid in my mama house but in the process no raid in my mom's house the house list dough to me some more some more dudes that was in my gang you know what I mean stayed in the house and that door so when they see the cars and shit turn on the road they get the running and they throw the guns up on my mama my house as they try to just get out the gun because it's a little cross space up in front of the house the gang tell force a lot coming around searching my mama house raiding it go through the end of filing the guns mind you I'm not there I'm nowhere near around that's what they used to indict me they got the guns that weren't your guns they weren't my gun I couldn't even point them

guns I said they knew nothing about it was like an assault rifle some shotgun I don't know I never seen the gun my fingerprint was on the gun I had no pictures with the guns nothing they just used that as he's a he's a threat basically so when they when they took the picture when the dude's a dude came up with a camera and i think he if i'm mistaken the i ain't know he think he had a camera on a keychain and he came to search something he came to buy some draw for somebody else now mind you it's probably eight nine of us in the yard because we was waiting on the ups man to bring us a CD of all the musical you've got to get ready to go out of time because i had to recollate right and he just happened to come over that a

sell him some drools we buy some drools while i was down and they seen me on the camper they told him if i called the police and reported him selling the droll so i'm gonna never went in jail but since i did call i ain't made the one out to sell i ain't had nita do what he said he saw him like a half a brick of cocaine and something like that but i told him though i said man ain't right with dude it can't because his money is always perfect like you selling drugs you're gonna have different denominations a month you're just not going to call with all twins it's like that shit don't something ain't right something that you ain't go

get this winner from the bank like it's something not right but the whole time he was coming to where I'm making control buys and I never want served them like never me and I never did in the business

I just so happened to be and the guy who sold the drawer they gave him two years yeah they gave him two years and gave him 12 that's when I that's when I caught my fad

came for eight in the bed eight in the bed in his cell or two to the well that was that was 400 and right at 500 grams cocaine and y'all don't know how to conspiracy go they just

start adding that shit up he said you sold it she said you sold that they just add you didn't go to trial hell who no I my ain't playing on those people you just you just thought your lawyer just explained they just explain this is what they've got this is what they're saying these are the people

that are going to testify against you do you want to 25 years or do you want to take I was going to get a life sentence okay do you want life or you want to do 12 they were going to give me a license simpler because of my I had, you know, I was a crew of Crumman. Yeah. So I had all these charges from Sheldon Dros already.

Then I got, I'd never been arrested for the gang shit. But it's like we know we just never arrested them for it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So you know most of these guys like from the outlaws, the biker gangs? Like they've gone to state, they've gone to state trial and beat like state murder charges, beat another state murder charge, beat another state murder charge, beat another state murder charge, beat a drug conspiracy.

And then the feds come in and get them for something minor and give them. everything they can give them and bam they get 30 years like that's it it's like all these charges that they beat and then so finally they get frustrated and they call the feds and they basically it's almost like they say set them up on a charge yeah they're like actually what they that basically did them right and then what was currently with with this one i knew i was out of my league because most people say they know they i'd leave when they say the united states of america versus no i didn't know i still was like i cool but i remember yet did you go through elena yeah okay so they got us You know they got a unit that where they put all the game numbers.

It's called BCU2. I thought I'm I already knowing Sir Romo because they got me black box. Like, why do I got this black box? I mean, I don't have a violent crown. I'm not enough of drugs. Like, why do we have this black box on me? So when I first get Atlanta, it's like calling these names. I step out.

I don't know. Everybody that's step in, I got on black boxes. So I'm like, what the fuck? What? Okay, I'm step on that. What's going on? So they came out of like, you gang affiliated with the bloods. You gang?

I'm like, no, I'm not, I'm not that other guy. Like, I don't know. I'm not off the drills. They've got to file. I got a file. I got to file on you guys. No bullshit, man. They send me in DC, you too.

When I walk in now, I can tell something that's terribly wrong. Like, the tension is crazy. The tension is crazy in this unit. This is the unit. They sent all the game in. It was no matter what game you're in. So they're piling up every type of game you could think of in this one unit. One unit.

Who they put you in a cellware? I was in the cell with a GD. But I think the reason why they put me in sale with him because we both had 0-2-0 numbers So they basically knew we were from the same area So I had put me in the room I was in the room with a GD And I remember man

They popped the doors We probably to stay out But like 12 minutes before a fight broke out But I remember when I popped in the doors And all the bludge came over And we was talking And it was a one guy I could look at I could tell

Boy it was bad for him I could tell So I was like bro what you're like though for Now mind you I ain't told him I got 12 years yet So he talked So he's like, man, I'm in the middle of, I'm from New York. I'm locked up for Rico. So I'm like, bro, how am I tell you got?

He's like, man, I got 45 years. Well, let me get that right. He said I got 460 something months. He didn't say 4 to 5 years. I got 406 or something. Yeah, like, okay. So I was just like, what you got out of? You're like, man, so they reicoed the hood.

They found on my phone number and the dude phone, they had a merch dog. And they brought me in on the Rico. I got 45 years. So I was just like, so I'm going to tell you. you got so we just like go around the unit it's like everybody got like 30 or 40 years like i don't supposed to be here i don't care what my record was supposed to say i was in charge for that why am i hill but that was just that was my first taste of how the federal government work so i get a teller they medium high and the uh the lieutenant he basically told me like

any time of blood do anything you're going to be responsible for too but now it's another guy on the compound who's supposed to have more rain to me that were from new york But for ever reason, they're going to put this on my back. If they do something, you get charged with it. So those folks literally, like, forced me to be in the guy. Way before I got to the prison where you was in, and they tried to make me sign the paper sales on the guy. And they forced me, like, I don't care what you say.

Your paper rights say to this, this is what you're going to do. That's what I knew. I was out of my lead. Because you would think, they would be like, oh, you don't want to be in a guy? Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, we'll send you over here. We'll work with it.

No, sir. No, sir. Your paper says you're a leader, so you don't go ahead and be a leader. Or else. That's what I knew I was out of my lead. Where were you before you got to Coleman? I was at Tallinnaker meeting high. Okay.

So you were there and then you went to Coleman? Okay. And then I went to Edgefield. Okay. And that's where I mentioned at the low. No worse. I hated it. Listen, my partner came, I tried to put a separate tease on, you know what that is all right?

Yeah. I try to put a separate tease on like, we got a problem. I can't go. he went ahead of me and he wrote that like bro don't come here yeah do not come to coleman so it's like damn so i like try to put a separate tease on her saying we can't go through the same prison hopefully there's ship me somewhere else i try to get a little a little minor charge where i could stay at coleman on it tell her they can not get shield to the pen or to another spot and it's just like none of that she was right it's almost like the counselor knew that i were trying to get out again sunday to

and they sent me to cove i didn't want to go to that place y'all uh it's just I didn't want to go to COVID at all. But I, on high side, I'm glad I did. I was just saying, what was the exact reason? Because there were two minutes Celsius on the compound. It is, it's just like, and then we know, you, you, you went from a medium to a low two max, so you know that the respect level is different, even with the COs. Like, the respect level is different, the people is different. Like, I remember how, yeah, I understand that, but it's easier time. No, it's not. No. No, it's not. It's easy to sound. for you.

Yeah. It's about easy. It's turning it for me. I don't, nobody bothers you. I'm not. It bothers me when I see stuff like, the sithophina.

You didn't, you didn't like the fact that there was like, there was like six or eight punks that would walk around the compound and be like, Hey. I hate it. And you would see like, it would be like a gaggle of, of, you know.

Man. You know, they call them, you know, punks, you know. You know, they, a gaggle of. punks and they'd be waving to people like they'd see some guy would be walking and they'd be like hey and they and all of them would go hey no we used to be all the night we could go out of rick y'all to rick on and they just see you know i'm not wrecking out with no see you they had a whole they had a whole baseball team yeah it was made of oh kickball it was kickball yeah yeah oh they had a kickball too i remember that just just the punk they had karaoke night no they would sing

No, you remember That was my first thing That was my first thing about They were hot in the compound down And be laid like a little dinner with them people Up in the culinary art build I knew I was in the wrong play Oh yeah, they celebrated

They celebrated it had a day where they celebrated Knocked everybody down And letting them came out And they cooked them real full I didn't know They were dancing They heard they had dance like dancing And I was like eight of them We're talking about like there's like 30, 40 people

They had a big party It seemed like every other day Somebody was coming out man you know since since yeah they were um what were they called came me free with nobody they were um not what did they say where they were not flipping them that they were um turning them turning mouth they turned out so-and-so and then every other and then everywhere they would have a punk come on the compound that had like real fake tits and like fake tits at one point there was like three guys that had fake tits on the compound they call them camphigates yeah oh yeah they

They all They had Tyler Swift They had Tyler Swift They were telling Tyler Swift They would make Man, I hated I promise I did not Want to cut out of prison

Michael McNaught Michael, what's it Nikki Minaj Nicky Monage I hated it Michael Minaj They would have like They were getting married

shit Something and broom and shit Throw around Why am I here How did I get here? Listen, karaoke night was pretty entertaining Man I hate it

I promise I hate it I did not want to cut it up prayer See, you know, we were, we were, we were different out of time. Like, I would be like, you know, I would go in the combat, be like, hey, they're having karaoke night and guys, fuck you. Here, come on. Carioca night singing, get the fuck out of here. What's wrong with you guys watching that shit?

I hate it. You try to go outside of work out and he just standing out of watcher. Like, fuck, I'm not, I'm going to work out of myself, bro. I'm not going out. I'm not going out. I'm like, oh, it's cool. It's cool. Bro, I'm not going out of the roof.

You know where, bro, we ain't need cool anymore. were like, oh, just get the fuck off a ride. If you think I'll say to go out here and work out with these folks just seeing or just watching, no, hell, no, I hate, I did not, I meant that. I promise you, I did not want to come in that prison. Then, they, hell, when I first got there, they, they, every prison I went to, I ain't go to but three, but every prison I went to, they, I have to meet with the SIS. Right.

The police who poloies compounds. They, they let me leave out without me because a fight broke out. Yeah. They blamed me for it. Like, you know you were supposed to tell us tonight. you want me to do your job i'm not doing that i never forget if the police went in there with a dollar took my whole locker out of my cell and went through every piece of paper in my room looking for game knowledge because they want to be the sign of the paper and said that i was in the

game i'm like no i'm not doing that but i figured out why they was doing that when all the believers come they come to me like okay this such such he this this helm this him this him so i'm like see i got in here i'm like well first of all where did y'all get in and because there's no way it's an open unit so what did y'all fight to get in it's like we took a test so like y'all like

so you say these are guys that these are guys that join the bloods while incarcerated no no be specific it Coleman okay it Coleman hit shit and they had they took a test was it multiple choice test

I never seen the test and I just told you I've been in the game basically as I was in the C's greed I never seen the taste I don't know the condition is on the test I guess they just learned the knowledge Lark what blood's fan for I don't know And it just threw me for a loop

And they were just like I took a test Like like it was That's how you do it right? Yeah I didn't understand Like bro I was beat down very bad Like I had I couldn't know Wait wait what was his name You just mentioned his name

I was locked I was in a halfway house with him Gemini Gemini He was terrible and Jimini He was like filth it's why he's in a game And then when it's time to be in the game You don't want to be in the game That's when he went back and tried Oh, getting back on with, you know, at the phase,

you know, you'd be on game time or tapping time or whatever, whatever, everybody got their own clique. And I was just, he's just like, no, you ain't going to be blood, bro. And, oh, he's crazy, he switched six. I found out later that he went from G. Shy to Brim or something like that. But he never should have been. He had all kind of great house.

It's like, where he come from? He died in the halfway house. I know he did. That's why he would go out to be a DJ. He said, you know, it was to him in. knuckleheads there were that fucking that would go um uh that would you know they they'd like rap all through their prison sentence they were going to get out and be a rapper and like and yeah yes two months later you find out like you you're you're you're putting you're you're

installing pools like he's what happened to the rack thing yeah that did i you could agree you met a girl and that's it never works um it's funny jimini this is i i so i'm in the halfway house right uh uh And Jim and I was there. And the reason makes me think about this, he'll think this is funny. So when I taught the real estate class and Coleman, I had taught, there was a guy that took the class. A white guy, pretty big guy.

He was like six foot tall. And he was only in jail for six months, maybe 10 months. I think he did get two or three years, but he was, by the time he got to Coleman, he barely did any time and left. But he remembered me. And so he had taken, he said, I remember he sat to the class. So he sat through the class and then he got out. And then he kept track of where I was.

You know, like would check the, check the BOP computer every once in a while and saw that I was getting out soon. And he knew that I was going to go to the halfway house. So one day I'm sitting there in the halfway house and Jim and I comes up to me. He goes, hey, he said, Cox. He said, you need to go outside. And I go, for what? And he goes, there's a guy outside for you. And I went, and I thought it was like another guy in the halfway house.

Right. Like some guy wants to talk to me outside. And I went, who is it? And he goes, oh, no, bro, but you need to go outside. And I could tell you, it's not like you're in trouble that. Right. You need to do this. And I was like, fuck, all right.

So I get up and I walk outside and there is. So, you know, outside that, well, I don't know what house house you were at. But at this halfway house, guys would go outside. to smoke. So you've got like 30 guys standing outside smoking in the parking lot. So there's 30 guys standing outside smoking. And so I walk out and I, as soon as I walk outside, I look over, there's a white Lamborghini with a blonde chick driving it. And the guy that was in my Coleman thing sitting in the passenger side. And all 30 guys are literally 10 feet away smoking cigarette's like,

like, and fuck you a kid and I don't fuck him and I see me the guy goes he's, Cox, Cox, Cox

and I kind of recognized them. Like I knew I knew him from somewhere and the only place I could know you at this point from You will fight

was I call him that I go over to I go I walk up but you're not supposed to talk to anybody remember? Yeah.

You can't talk to anybody you can't who that is yeah well I mean I'm in the parking lot no I'm saying

even in the halfway house people people can't come see you. They have to be approved. See the half house hour. They had a fence in the bed when we smoked and the people who can't through to it. No, no. They told you like if one of your friends comes by, don't think you're going to stay in the parking lot and talk to him. We'll send you right back to fucking prison. Everybody has to be approved just like in prison. They have to come

through the air. So I see him. I walk up to him and I'm like, hey man, I know you were getting that. He starts talking to me. I'm like, and then it kind of dawns on me. Oh, shit. There's Tamas here. There's 30 guys here. You know, and I'm like, oh, yo, bro, I can't. You got to talk to me. I work at a gym. gym like I work at telling the name of the gym like yeah yeah well you're going to get me fucked up I got to go and I turn around walk off he contacts me a few days later but uh yeah but I remember listen after that can you imagine I walk out I'm talking to some guy in a fucking Lamborghini everybody in the halfway house is now saying so yeah what's help with him bro

what's going and then they start looking me up they start watching the American greed episode next thing I know the all the officers have watched it or the staff that watched it so now I'm walking around. They're like, Cox, what's up? How we doing? I'm like, what's going on? It was like that in prison, though. I told you, man, you could be humble as you want to. You was like famous. And you, Tim again, Lance posting, like, y'all was like the famous ones on the compound. You know, Lance turned out to be a real piece of shit. Yeah, I don't know. He got out and, like, he had promised all these guys that were kind of like watching out for him and being cool with him. And they would, like, get out. He, like, he promised him a job and

everything. They'd get out and call. Like, this. This one guy, Brandon, called him two or three times, left messages. Finally, Brandon called and his, Lance's wife picked up the phone and said, listen, he's not going to call you back. He don't want anything to do with you. He don't want to talk to you. He don't want him to do. He said, don't call again.

It don't surprise me. I'm like, what Lance, there was like $2.7 billion. It was in the billion. Yeah. You thought he wanted to talk to you? Well, you know, I just, so here's the what bothers me. Is that I would, okay, so listen, I was raised upper middle class, right? so but I met some great people in prison I met better people in prison than I knew prior to

go into prison but you went in there just trying to survive though you were just being met like he was just trying to survive so he was like I'm gonna just be cool with everybody you know what I mean right I'm gonna feed you this so you can hang around and protect me watch out for me you just met no by the time I'm bitch I don't know by the other prison but by the time I made you just met yeah I mean I mean like I would yeah I guess Lance was trying to I remember he you know they sent him he went to trial lost they sent him in the pen like he got the shit kicked out you remember he was missing it too he got the living shit kicked out of him in the pin like a couple times they kept him in the shoe until they sent him to the they held them long enough till like they sent him to like the low I yeah so I get that yeah but I mean you know to me it was like I got I was just like I'm just going to have to make the best of it here and I remember thinking to myself either you're going to not mouth off. You're just not going to talk to anybody the whole time you're here, or you're going to run your mouth. And every once while, you're going to get fucking flat. Which one of you want to do?

And I thought, I'll survive the bitch laughing more than I will just not talking to anybody. So I'm just going to walk around and joke around and fuck around. And if every once while I piss somebody off and they get my face, well, that's all right. That's going to happen. Nobody expects me to be a tough guy in it. Right. Right. So that's why I was just like, I'm just, let's see. It'd be made. Joke around and suck around. And as a result of that, I think I met some great people. People that literally I got out and I still communicate with. People that I got out and they would, you know, they'll ask me to send them some money or can you mail me a book. Absolutely. I don't have a problem with that because nobody was doing that for me. So, you know, you know, you know, you're a good guy,

man, because I can tell you like, when I, when you talk about you coming to your podcast, like, I'm not on do it. You do it over the phone. You know what I mean? Like, you my partner. I'm going to pay. I'm I'm going to pay the kid. I'm going to ask you to do nothing because I knew the shit that I learned for you for real estate and credit and just being around and just watching you. Like even though with the book writing shit, by the time I met you, it was like I knew I wanted the right books. I knew I wanted the right movies. I knew I want to do all this shit, but I had no idea how to do it. So just hanging around you, watching you doing, watching your work at the little simple shit like that. You, y'all tell you, you probably didn't pay attention to this

shit and you were just being mad. A little simple shit like getting up every morning, racing to that library to do some protecting with your day. That shit kept me from getting out of prison doing some bullshit, because mind you, I just told you, the prior prison I was at, I was just meeting more people that were going to help me get more drugs. Right. So when I made it to the Coleman, and it was like, oh, man, you need to meet Matt. That one can't introduce me to you. And I was just like, you're like, no, you just got to come to the library.

Like, I'm not, I don't come out. I don't do much. I got to call to the library. So that created a habit, a good habit for me getting up every morning and shoot to the library, you know what I mean? That's why I, that a little one time where they try to take out of seats. I'm like, you got to do shit, Matt. I got it.

Yeah, this is my line. this is what I, you just continue to let me be around you, learn from you doing this book, the book write shit, listen to, even even with the, the lawsuit that you had on dude, I forget dude, name. It taught me, contract, Devin Rowley.

It taught me contract, like, don't just do shit, like, make sure you got all your shit in a row, you know what I mean? Like, don't make sure people write them until I heard Devin'Roy name again, I want some bullshit too. But I learned a lot from you, so it's just like, why fuck what I'm at? Like, because I would have stood up, even though you could have

stood up for yourself. I would have stood up for you because like, man, not fucking with nobody. You would have stood up for yourself. I say, I know, so, because I don't think people understand it. So, and not everybody's watched all the podcasts, but what I did it basically in prison was I used to go at the low. So it's funny because at the medium, like the, the library is like almost always empty. Right. But at the low, people don't want, they didn't want to go outside and work out. So they would, when, when they call the move, you can either go the rec yard or you could go to the library or culinary arts or if you had something your job whatever but if you didn't want to go sweat your ass off in the in the rec center you went to the library

the problem with that was for someone like me who i'm not really going there to avoid being outside i'm going there because i'm writing a book writing a book so i would bust my ass and race all the way over there well first i was just sitting anywhere like i was sitting at any table when i first got there and i'm going there and I'm writing, I'm writing. And multiple things happened in the library. Like, there was just a few big, long tables, then they broke them up, but small tables. But what I started noticing over the course of a couple of weeks was there was one table where there was like five or six black guys that were sitting there. And I could see they were writing. Does that make sense? You know, you could see they were writing. And then one day, and that's why obviously it got

around that like, well, you know, those guys all write. They write like urban novels. And I was like, oh, okay. So then one day I got there and somebody left. I forget how I ended up sitting at the table. And they're writing and I'm writing. Well, one of the guys goes, what are you writing? You do legal work? And I said, no, I'm writing a book. And they were like, what do you write? I was like, well, I'm trying to finish my book. I wrote a book about me. And they were like, oh, okay, I said, what are you guys writing? And you know, they don't even really want to talk to me. Like, they're giving me, they're bugging. Right. Anyway, so we start talking over the course of a week or two we start talking and they're asking me questions and I basically had finished up my book

by that point and I was writing another I was writing another book I was writing I was thinking I was finishing Devoroli's book yeah and so they started to understand that and then I kind of explained that I was finishing up the manuscript and they saw that I had like a literary agent people are coming to see me yep they're starting to look me up they're starting to say oh wow that's interesting and I'll never forget that at one point Devoroli's book was done I started writing this kid's book, Doug Dodd, and they were like, well, what's his story? Because I kept telling them, listen, you guys are writing urban novels. And I said, they're like, yeah, well, they sell some, you know, they would write a book. And some of these books, you get them published, they make six

or seven thousand or 13. There was a, there was one guy that sat with us for a while, then he got transferred. He'd written like five or six books. And he'd start writing urban novels like 10 or 15 years before. He had like a huge set of it. When he first started writing, very few people write in urban novels. So he put a couple of them out and they would make $12,000 or $13,000 like in prison,

that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. So if you made $12,000 over the course of two years, that's a good chunk of change. And he's got multiple. His problem was, he was like, the problem is

everybody's doing it now. So it's watered down. So now I'll finish a book and put it out. And even though I've got all these other books and people know my name, he said the books make a couple thousand dollars. And I was trying to explain.

that to these guys. I was like, well, you know, so-and-so said this. And they didn't, well, mine's going to be huge. Mine's going to be huge. And they're like, well, you don't think you're going to be huge. I said, I'll be lucky to publish mine. I don't care if it's huge. I enjoy doing this. This is how I do my time. This is how I do my time. Well, when Dodd came in, so with Doug Dodd came in, I remember saying, listen, this kid, this kid, he's got a, he's got an okay story. You know, it's not the greatest story, but I think I can make it great if I just focus on this and this and this. And they were going, were you going to write it? And I was like, well, I think I'm going to write a synopsis, a very short story version of it. And they were like,

why? You can't, well, you can't sell that. I said, no, but what I could do is, like, I'm thinking I can send it to a bunch of, a bunch of reporters and try and get him into, like, a magazine. If I can get him into, like, GQ magazine or something, then I can probably get a book deal. Right. And I remember K and all of these guys were like, like, what? Like, bro, what? I said, yeah, I said, because think about it. What gives me credibility is that I'm in prison writing these guys' story. Right. What gives him credibility is his charges. So I said, what you guys all have, you don't seem to realize it, is what gives you credibility for the first time in your life is that you sold drugs. Right. Like you should write a book about you and that drug, the whole

drug thing and your story. You could make it amazing. They don't want to do that because they want to sensationalize it. Right. And I'm like, it doesn't matter if you're a poor kid from the projects that didn't have a fucking prayer, then that's a good story. They couldn't see that. They couldn't see it. And so when I told them Doug Dodd's story, they were like, what's so big about that? I go, well, you know, I'm going to focus on the fact that all these five guys were on the wrestling team. The fact that they were all clean cut white guys. You had to peel? The pills. Yeah. Yeah. So as they were all kind of clean cut white guys, you wouldn't expect this from. It was the beginning of the, um, the pill. The pill.

epidemic. So I started explaining everything and they were just like and you think you're going to get him in a magazine and I was like yeah and they were like all right, all right. So I finished the synopsis write it. I move on to something else but I mail it out to about eight different

reporters. A couple of them come back one guy comes back and says I can do the story. Then we get the story done then it ends up in Rolling Stone magazine and I'm talking about little pieces here and there and then one day I walk in and I boom here's a I said hey

you said I couldn't get it and they're just like they're like he's it on their fucker and I'm like yeah rolling stone magazine hey is that's my name right there look I wrote it and they're like oh my god so then within that goes out and they were like what are you going to do now what are you do now I said well now I'm going to take the articles and I'm going to sit out about 50 to about 50 different literary agents I'm going to get a literary agent that's going to get me a book deal and they're like, man, how's that going to happen? I said, I don't know.

You think you can do that? I said, no, but I didn't think I could get him into Rolling Stone magazine either. I thought I'm going to try. What happened? Do you know how many things, even to this day? I try that don't work. Yeah. I wanted to be on Jordan Belford's, you know, Jordan Belford, the Wolf of Wall Street.

Right. I want to be on his podcast, right? Not so much because I care about being on his podcast that it's not going to help us, right? It's not going to give, I'm going to get, if I'm on Belfort's podcast, it's going to get me 50 new subscribers. Right. His crowd is not my crowd. His crowd is a business crowd.

But I'd like to go so I can get photos with him so that I can say like, hey, I was on soft white underbelly. I was on Vlad. Right. I was on value taintment. I was on Jordan Belford, the Wolf of Wall Street. I want to be able to say it. Right. So you know what I did?

I made four paint, small paintings of Jordan Belfort. Delford. And I packaged them up and I sent them to his house and he got him and he signed for him and he got him with a letter saying, hey, my name's Matt Cox. I have a podcast. Here's who I am. You know, and explain the whole thing. Check out my pockets. I'd love to come to Miami and be on your podcast. I have a redemption story, blah, blah, blah, right? Never heard for Jordan Belfort. Was that a waste of time? No. I don't need to hear from him. You know, I've sent what was it with you know what happened with that with uh grant cardone i know grand cardone sorry uh graham stephan graham stephan is another guy he's got a huge podcast and then

the truth is honestly uh colby could make a couple calls like if we if i was willing to fly out to Vegas i'd probably could be on the ice coffee hour like he could probably make a couple calls and I'd probably be on the ice coffee right that's this guy's one of this guy's podcast I made some screen prints of Graham Stefan, sorry, Graham Stephan and his wife or his girlfriend, fiancé? Yep.

The fiance. Same thing, made a few, packaged them up, sent him to him, Graham got him, and Graham through my booking agent said, thanks, I really appreciate it. Well, I really, yeah,

not what I wanted. I wanted a, you've got to come out. Right. but honestly I probably could anyway we just made a few phone calls but I'm saying like I'm done I've mailed off

I remember this guy do you remember the big black guy his name was I wrote a story called The Gap about him his name is his name is Donovan Davis

he got like 17 years for a Ponzi scheme that had nothing to do with him anyway he was Jamaican he's Jamaican but through but he's actually got heritage from from India there's a huge Indian population in in Jamaica right so anyway wrote his story I sent off his story to probably 30 reporters and never really well I actually did get a bite I got a bite from

somebody but then she said it was too complicated for her and she wanted to write a story on me instead so even though that seemed like a waste of time it it did help right it did something. I've written lots of letters that went nowhere. I've done lots of things that went nowhere. And just like I didn't think I could get those kids into Rolling Stone or G. Fu or any national magazine, I didn't think I could get a book deal either. But it's worth writing. So what would I do? I wrote 50 letters. Sure enough, got a book deal. I have a book that was all it was on Barnes and Nobles. We got a check. And then we optioned the life rights. Didn't even know what optioning the life rights really was. We optioned the life rights for them. I got a

check um when i got to the halfway house i got another check they optioned it again like i hit the halfway house there's 300 bucks no 400 dollars and i just went to i went to walmart spent three hundred dollars had about 90 bucks left right on my little card you know the card um just pitch on and and and and my ex-wife calls me on my cell phone that my brother bought me um on my cell phone and says you got to check here from that law firm and I go open it she opens it up she goes it's like six grand and I was like me day thank God me they I wrote those right I was able to do a car I was able to like it changed a ton and and so it's like all those things that I did that weren't supposed to work that didn't matter

because I had all that time and sitting at that table and and and talking with those guys and and and even you know even hashing out different you know how to say this how would you say that how would you like those guys kept me um you know they kept me sharp by the constant back and forth back and they were they were hilarious right now i mean and i and i and i didn't fit in there at all like i was the odd man but but was so funny about that was it was just i always had a place to stay because i didn't always get there first like sometimes i'd walk in right and k would be there and nobody's sitting there. So you've got this library, by the way,

people are standing up, standing up, sitting at the tables, standing up, and you've got one guy sitting at a table where you've got five seats sitting there and nobody's sitting down. Guys would go to sit down and he'd be like, don't sit there, don't sit there. And the guy would be like, wow, I'm going to sit here.

Nobody's like, I'll beat your fuck. And they get up and move or, or he'd sit down and then everybody else would sit down. Sometimes you get somebody who'd be like, they just sit there. like, I'm not moving. I'm not moving. And then you'd have, you'd have Snoop or somebody walk over and stay in there and just

stare at the guy and say, I'm telling you, you need to get up right now. You want to get up right. And the guy would be like, oh, shit. And they'd get up and leave. It'd be the same time. If I got there, I'd put books on all the things and be like, the number of somebody sitting here. And I'd be like, I swear to God, you don't want to sit here.

I mean, I'm doing you a favor right now. You don't want to be here. And if enough people, they see it, they know. And they're like, yeah, don't sit. That's why I was surprised when we don't get. guys I think he was on top came in and they put the books in our spot they were the heavyset guy he came in with his clay teaching something like I don't know what he was bought oh yeah and they were gonna they were gonna yeah this is mistake yeah it's a mistake

we're not doing like I'm trying to help you bro like I'm not gonna do anything but I had I had like 12 bloods coming up and there's one like now we not do it because I don't know we see it's like a table for the says a friend of why y'all don't know I wish I want to still try to sit in all seats but but that was that was that was good because was it was it's like when you were sitting there it's it was helping it was like helping everybody was like look you know like oh i can't write a book yeah you can you can you don't have to write a book today today write the first page of an outline right and i and one thing about me i was a different for no because it all the one writes urban all i don't write all self-help books like my this

bull right here product of my environment simply came from me saying i'm going to change the narrative with people saying, oh, I sold a drawer, so I did it because I'm a product of my environment. Everybody in my neighborhood and sell a drill. Everybody in my neighborhood in gang bang. Everybody in my neighborhood didn't break law. Some people got up and went to work. Right. You know what I mean?

So I decided and the end, you know, it's crazy because sitting there with you and the other writers at the table just paying attention. It was another older guy. You could see it a little farther than out, but just paying attention. I used to listen to what you, exactly what you just said. And one of the reason why I slide away, shot away from right urban novel because I was just like, okay I can write a self-help book and even if the book don't sell

I can get speaking engagements off of it so that's what I had to get now like I go to schools and speak I get $3,000 is going to speak at a school I mean I just it's like 250 hours for me to come and do anything right you know what I mean basically

and I'm just taking the book and I just had a guy come in there like we want to buy 30 of your books we want you to head in the book club it's like okay you can buy 30 books but we got a whole other conversation about me hearing of the book club just because you buy the books don't mean i'm gonna come in and teach out of the book no you

paid me to teach out of the book so me watching you with okay okay okay i'm gonna do this then i'm gonna get a book deal or then i'm gonna try to get a movie deal i'm gonna ask okay okay okay okay so this one i'm gonna go this route i'm write the self-help book and i'm gonna get the doing speaking engagements all for everything and that's that's how i end or writing all the books they were so crazy because i remember when i was at colman and k k k to tell you this story the CEO because no much I was I always had this this white guy Jane Manning with me all the time he was my editor he was just like my editor right and then it's crazy how I figured I think he could edit it I just I heard reading the Bible and he was reading so fluent like he ain't skip a beat like he got to be able to edit my book right so we ended I ended up befriended on James and he ended up editing my book and so we were being in this room if I'm not in a library or wrecking out I'm in this room I didn't go watch TV I had to do now I in this room every day or I was in this room every day or right and they thought I was it's Stuart and James. Right. Like they called

me in the office and asked me all these questions and asked James all these questions like am I at Stuart and James because it was just me, James and Kay basically in the room all the time. You don't need building on these stories and these books that I was putting together. But I remember the council life to get the whiskey. That's just now. I just said I came up as night

there was no whiskey. They moved him down from B to A, I think. He went in and basically broke the tight rider. why I think he thought I was doing law work because I was always in there I was me and jay and k if I'm always in there writing these books so I guess he felt like I was writing law rich because he asked me ain't gonna guess he asked and I was just like I'm writing

books I guess looking at me like now he ain't writing books he got to be here trying to do some law ruck or some shit but he ended up breaking the tightwriter me and k ask me and k end up going there and fixing the tightwriter he broke the where you sit the caution on the on the wheel. He broke it. So we went in, we fished it. It's like two days later, I came, and he threw a whole tight right in the trashcats. But all I did got my homie from A3 to steal bill type.

And I heated up under my bed to myself. You telling me this right now? I remember this whole thing because I remember Pete, my buddy Pete, talking about how there was a typewriter missing and one of the units and it was a big deal and what's wrong with these guys? And I have never, like, if I told Pete of that story right now, he'd be like, oh, my God. Because they didn't, they'd never, like, I had it up on word out. I put it up on my beat.

Yeah, I was, I was going to say that it's funny because, um, yeah, I think sitting at that table and having that time and trying to do something with that time, you know, teaches what taught, would help to teach me long term planning. Yeah, and I, you know, it's just, and that, you know, it's not, you just, it's incremental little gains every day, a little bit here, a little bit here, a little bit. And guys used to say all the time, like, man, you must write fast. Like, no, I write slow. Yeah, I just write every day I write. Right. I just write a lot. I write every day and I rewrite it and I read, because there's no great writers, there's great rewriters. Yeah. And so nobody sits down and just knocks it out. So, you just write it and write it and I was like look sometimes I'll spend a whole day and I'll end up with like I would spend five hours and end up with one paragraph right some days I spend all day and I did it with three pages you know it's in the end over the long term one day you look back and you go holy shit I got I'm done I got a book and so you know those I feel like those things really helped in the long term and doing that and sitting at that table and having those guys um have that table available helped me write books that to this day I'm getting checks from.

Right. Like I don't, I have passive and it's not a ton of passive. Yeah, but it's passive. You get a thousand extra dollars a month. For me, $1,000 is a lot of money. Right. And it's because I was sitting at that table, same thing. Because I'm sitting at that table, I'm optioning stories.

And now I get out and I'm able to option stories that I wrote seven, eight years ago. 10 years ago. Right. Stories that you get, you know, they're not huge options. But you get a check-in for $3,500, $3,500 is a lot of money to me. Right. It may not have been a lot of money to me before I went to prison, but it's a lot of money to me now. And it's money that I'm getting that took nothing now.

It's something I made that money 12 years ago. Right. And it is all from sitting at that table. That's like, me, Vince, I probably, I have to show you to pitch my phone there, but I probably got this much material. and they started at that table. I just kept writing through my bed, though. Like, I started sitting in that table, sitting around y'all just watching,

doing my little writing head, I got so many books. I probably never have to write another book. I would have to rewrite some of the material. Yeah, but I got so many books, movies. I've wrote a full sitcom, full TV Airborne series, web series. I got so much material. Like, my problem right now is which book do I publish now? Right.

I created my own publisher coming because I didn't have, you know, I try to go your route. The literary ages and all this and that. No, they don't want anything to do it. I just wouldn't, you know, just create them all. Yeah. Well, that's why all my, I publish everything on Amazon now. Yeah.

Because those, they're, they're, I don't want to say they're useless, but for, you know, I don't know. I, you know, I had two books published. I've made more money on Amazon than I ever made off of those books. Right. And I'm glad I had them published. It must say I'm not glad, but I, I, I, I, I, you know, I, just feel like I've made more money. And I think that in publishing, you have the guys that are bestsellers who make a chunk of money and the guys that aren't bestsellers who make nothing.

Right. Or very little. So, but, but yeah, I'm, I always, I always love the fact that, that, that we had that table. I just wish those guys would have listened to me. Yeah. Because they never really got out of that thinking. It was, even after they would write one novel they started on another one and I would sit there and go bro write your story why don't you write not just your story why don't you write his story because maybe it's hard to write your story it being you know I was just about to say that I think and I in the beginning it was I tried to write a story on my life and I also tried the urban novel but you said something about sensationalizing their lifestyle I lost so much and been through so much with that lifestyle like

I really could never really sit on and write it you know what I mean like I I I really lived that life. Like, I really been shot. I really don't, you know, I really lived that life. So it would take somebody else to really spend time with me and learn and then write it. But just sensationalizing the lifestyle, writing all this. Oh, broke out of the courtroom and I had 500 keys of cocaine. I just could never sit down and write it because I was just like, why would I sensationalize

something that cost me to lose so much? So I took pieces of my life that I felt comfortable with talking about. And I just wrote books on it, self-help books on it. Right. It's that people can read that they can get some from. They can learn some from, you know what I mean? They can learn the consequences of this shit instead of the horrible and all, you know what I mean?

The business and that shit is not happening. It's funny going to prison too and being around those guys and writing some of those guys' stories. Like, I mean, I know you're saying like some of the people in your neighborhood went and they had jobs, they had this. But typically, so. And obviously you have. You have 10 kids all raised by their mother or their grandmother. And you're going to have, you know, five of them are going to go into selling drugs and crime.

And five may go get a job, a regular job and be a regular person, you know. But the, but had those 10 kids, had a husband, had a father and a mother and been in a better situation, then maybe only two of those kids would have gone. You know what I'm saying? So, in my opinion, from reading these stories about these guys, and what's even funny is you read some of the, like, Snoop and, uh, and his brother, uh, Hawkins, his last name is Hawkins. Uh, do, uh, D.V. DeVelle Hawkins. Snoop and D.V. Like, if you read their life, like, it, I mean, bro, like, they just didn't have a chance. Right. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, I, I, you know, prior to. going to prison and probably prior to writing all those the different stories and hearing the different because you know although i've written a bunch of books i've written like two dozen synopsies and i've heard way more way more ways than i ever wrote right like you tell me a

guys would come and they'd tell me a story and we'd spend three hours listening to the guy's story and it and i unfortunately it it wasn't good enough like it's not good enough for me to devote three three months of my time to write your story and i'm sorry and it's a great story it's a it's a tragic story. Right. We're raising the project. Right. Your mother was a prostitute. Your father's out of fucking jail. Your brother sold drugs. This guy sold drugs. Everybody you knew that had any money at all sold drugs. And I hear... It's phenomenal. Right. The problem is, if you're a middle class white kid hearing that story, it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that. But the truth is being in prison and hearing those stories over every day. It's like, this isn't unique. No.

Like, unfortunately, that's not a unique story. It's a tragic story. It's probably an amazing story. But it needs it for me to dedicate my time to it when I was locked up it has to have some other element and what snoop and dv story had was one of the kids they grew up with ended up heading the task force the drunk task force in their county and they started working with him and he's telling them where the drug dealers are that have money and setting it up so he's like there will be no cops in this area at this time from this time they'll all be here you guys and i'll listen to the radio when you guys go and rob this guy he's probably got 50 or 100 000 at the very least he's got 10 kilos of coke and they would go in and rob the guy right i remember so so they he has

the same story the difference in that story is that you're working with that's training day yeah that's training day so that's worth writing right even though you know they're but i don't know so I mean, yeah, but you, you, I really feel like I, I really feel like those guys, not me, I feel like those guys missed out by not seeing the stories that were all around them. And you know why it was? It's because it's so common to them. Yep. They didn't think anything was common about their story. They would tell me the story and I'd be going, hey, shit. And they didn't think it was, they didn't think there was anything special because they know all their buddies and cousins and friends. And they've all been arrested in and out of jail, dealt with snitches, dealt with crooked cops. dealt with that was just it was normal normal everyday life so they would rather talk about some some guy that ended up you know working with the cartel and doing this and had 50 planes it was it's like what are you doing bro right that's not a story no not real no anyway yeah that's too bad that's probably though that's probably like my biggest regret of spending that time there not even the fact that i was in prison right but that they all had amazing stories

stories, Kay's probably got a great story. Yeah, Kay, I don't know, especially when you look at Kaye background with his family, like his father, what happened with his father and who his father was, got a good background. And I used to tell Kay, Kay, you know, I always be like, bro, you need to do this about your story. I was just like, bro, like, my story's so coming. It got a lot of tragic ending, you know what I mean? But the success is going to be what I could sell. The success story part of like, okay, he bit through all this, went to federal prison and

what he did afterwards, you know what I mean? Like, I could tell the person, I got out of prison. I've been out of a half of your house a year and a month. Within that year and some month, I've become, I got a third of day clearance to work with the Department of Juvenile Justice. Right. Well, that's what you're doing? That's what I mean?

Go and talk to the kids and stuff on teens that've been in trouble. I've published a book. I've created a company called My Create a Game Plan that fosters on financial literacy within the property of community. I, oh, what I do? Now, I do a lot of speaking engagements, you know what I mean? Right. So, but this is a series of books, right?

There's other books behind this one. It's other books. So the next book that I'll contemplate, though, you're going to like this title. The next book that I'm thinking about putting out, it's called 21 Keith, how to get through to the hardhead without smacking them. It's a long bio. It's a long title. This primary title is Connect Set Restart.

Connect, connect one of set, better examples, restart they think it. So it's just like this success story with what I eventually be able to say, and if I could become successful doing with everything on the devil. They'll put forth with them doing as far as saving the community, getting the gang violins down and gun violence out of the shit. But my biggest problem is the day they don't trust. They still think that I'm doing something or I'm going to do something. Are they waiting on?

You mean some of the authorities? The authorities, kind of commissioners, everybody. You know what you ought to, what would be a good one for like high school students or junior high students is a book or not even a book. It could be just a synopsis. It would be 10 or 15, 20 pages. is just the sentencing guidelines. Like, kids have no idea.

Oh, I did have an idea. How much trouble they think, oh, I'm just selling a little meth here, a little meth here, a little meth. You sold meth four times. And you turn around and they're charging you with like half a Kia meth and you're looking at 25 years

or you cooperate against these guys or you plead guilty and take 10 years. years and we're like, I'm 19 years old. I've sold four, you know, drugs four times. Yeah, but we also have somebody who said you've been doing this since you were 50. When I was 15, I sold a little here, a little there. I stopped for three years. Nah, it doesn't matter. We're going to add up everything from 50 to everybody to say it. Right. That what they said. And if you don't, then we'll then go to trial. Yeah. Because you go to trial and we're going to get four of your buddies to testify against you. Or guess what? We'll just hold you without bail and we'll get four guys or three guys.

in the jail that don't even don't know you and let them come to court on you. And they'll testify that you told them that. See, a lot of people, they talk about the fed that you can't beat the fed. It's the tactics. I remember my federal judge and I was like, man, I'm not.

I'm going to try. I remember dudes looking at me dead at my eyes and said, this is not the state. We do itself here, say. Yeah. I just went by to myself and I was just like, what's that of mine? What do you mean?

I was even paying itself. So it just with anybody's saying? Yeah. And I figured it out. That was sally. Go get on. Your cellmate, they locked you up for two weeks. Your sally in prison will say, he told me that he told me that was a part of the conspiracy with that guy.

And if you think the feds won't put that sally in a room and hand you the, hand you the indictment along with all of all the FBI 302s or the DEA 6s and let him read all about your case, He'll put it right on his thing. And he'll sit there. They'll know blatantly that he's lying. Because keep in mind, even if the, even if he got on the stand and turned around and said, you know what? I am lying. He didn't say that.

The AUSA stuck me in a room, gave me all the DEA sixes, let me read up on the case, and told me he cut me loose if I testified against it. Do you know what happened to that, that U.S. attorney? And then they could prove that they did remove him and put him in a room and give him all that stuff, right? Do you know what happened to the U.S. attorney? nothing nothing that judge would say this is a horrible egregious act that's it don't do that again that's it that's it prosecutorial they have immunity well people don't kill it can't be prosecuted

don't boy i tell people all the time hey just stay state and it'd be it so crazy because we when i was in the state prison i was telling me hey it's gonna take the feds it's gonna get me that's all i was saying well they're gonna take the fed they can't write the gap too that's you know a lot of people say that a lot of people the state president for seven draws or say shit like they're gonna take the foregone fed this time i'm gonna feed next time like that that shit a badger on or something i i said the state that's a mistake i should mail for the people you know what there's only one time that only one situation i know of that you're better off in the state or i'm sorry you're better off in the feds is like with like oxycoded like the pills yeah in the state of florida and they changed this like five

six years ago they were weighing the pills So the weight, so it could be a five milligram pill that weighs, that five milligram pills weighs less than a 20 milligram pill. But they would weigh the pills and they would, they had a weight scale for, well, you had this much weight of oxy. And they would charge you. And so you'd end up getting, even though you had a bunch of this one brand that weighed more. And they would charge you. And you'd have getting these mandatory minimum sentences of like 10 years, 20 years. But if you were to go to the Fed, they would charge you for the actual milligram of how much it really was.

And you'd end up with four or five years as opposed to these ridiculous mandatories. That was right. And that's still if you're first time. Now, if your second time, then of course in the feds, they start tacking on all the, you know, all the different criminal history and you're fucked. But there's one or two very slim scenarios where you're probably better off in the Fed than you're the state. Yeah. But other than that, yeah, you're absolutely. right you're right state state state even though the prison let's face it the prisons in the

federal system are way nicer than the state prisons right people way nice yeah yeah yeah the people right night you go to the state prison you got to get you a knife i don't even like hearing about like the guys they're talking about prison he would tell prison stories yeah i feel anxious just hearing the stories they i don't even want to hear the story i was just taylor my brother he was in the state prison he never should have been in prison that's a whole other situation like they literally set him to prison for nothing just because his last name was Luke got him 10 year of prison 10 year banishment and we end up fighting and getting him out getting him get him out like three years later but he never should have been in prison I remember somebody called me like hey bro

somebody here last night Luke I'm like oh that's my little brother they sent my little brother neither so I like you know watch out for my little brother basically straight you know he ain't going to bother nobody he in his own world and he's good people good kid they do big old dude blood dude push up with my little brother he can't call him like bro i'm like who the fuck this dude is like i don't know that i like bro he just go protect you make sure you good like not that you need it because you stutter on your own too but i was like call hey man make sure my brother's street why he in like y'all better watch out for my brother but he is it was so crazy because he was in what

we call gang land in the state of jr he never should have been now he was only that because they had labelling him that's a blood and all this other shit and he was only that for that and that was a rough-ass prison i was like he sterile his own too but man nitha been i had my little brother while he ended up and he called home like bro this big old dude just like you're straight bro he's just gonna watch over you like basically tell the four leave me to fuck alone i don't know them well i don't be around them that's it all where but state prison that's way way different way different way different but the feds you give you some more time i'd rather go in there and russ with them gorillas and lice for a few years there than do 10 years

in the 120 miles 240 to yeah yeah that's the worst because you get sent these and you got to do math. Hey, listen. They're like, you're like, oh, shit. That's Siddler. How much time is? That's 20 years. I remember when I got sentenced. And then shows were like, you got a hundred to four. They automatically clit me like 12 times, 12 hundred and 44. Like I remember looking back at my mom and my grandma when they were saying bad like, this is no bullshit. They said, like, count that shit up. When I looked back and get your ear, everybody would cry. They had added that shit. Wait, wait, wait. That's a, that's a long time. I'd never forget that shit. All right, all four got there adding that shit up.

A little bad thing was like this. I looked back and everybody would cry. What happened to them? Twelve years, I could work that. I could go take care of that. The 25, the two sisters and all that, I couldn't do know with that. Yeah, that was just a little too long, fuck. What else?

We got anything else you think of, talk about? Let me see. Trying to see that I, anything I could have elaborated on that I didn't elaborate on. you had to do a book on the federal guidelines yeah i could do a book on that too because they they are very oblivious to def and they're doing a lot of rico on down for that gang and that's that's kind of like my fight now is trying to keep them from because a lot of people going to get a lot of time for that shit they're just around you know what i mean they just took a picture with them and they posted on facebook with them they're going to get a lot of time for it so that's my

my my fight now is to try to keep the riko from from just tanker they're going to they're just like the conspiracy back with the crack epidemic. They just, now it's just the RICO Act. So now I work with like reform, I mean, which is Mick Mills and Jay Z. I don't know them, but like the person who was overreformed in the state of Georgia. I've been working with her.

I worked with this organization called Offender Alumni Association. It's a national recognized organization that they don't have, they combat recidivism. I fought with all credit with all creditors. I just meant

trying to do a whole bunch of shit, man, and just thought that Rico could that shit gonna tap some shit up. What I don't get is that, like, you could put somebody now with technology, you could put somebody on an ankle monitor and monitor them all the time everywhere. Like, it really, there's just no reason

to lock people up with these amount, the amount of time they're locking people up. You're a non-violent offender, like, it don't mean no sense. Yeah. Not only that, you can say, hey, here's where you work, here's your travel area, here's where you live, here's the grocery store you go to, that's your area. If you go outside of that area, you know what I'm saying?

Like it, one, it notifies you wherever you're going, but that you need to stay in that area. It is, this going to hurt a lot of people. All the way we would have got it in and Trump would have stayed off. That's the only way we would have got there. I'll tell you that. That's the only way we get in there is Trump staying off. This, this would I always like to Trump because Trump's going to piss on your I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I always, but I like Trump. But I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you. So I don't feel with this. I remember being in on, I was at Edgefield. And I remember talking to an officer there and he was the head of the arm, what the shit, the union shit. He was the head of the union. He was just like, damn, I need, I need Biden.

We need Biden to win. So I hold on time. The guys out here who were incarcerated, they're cheering for Joe Biden. They want Biden to be the president. He's like, somebody right. Wait, wait, somebody right. if the people who owe to the prison want Biden to be president, there's no way I won't buy it to be president. It's nowhere it sound like, I asked him, I said, why are you on Joe Biden to be president? He said, come by the money going to give us the money.

He said, Trump takes the money away from him. And it deans on me. When I first came in the system, remember they had the three, the three barks in one sale? Right. Trump, the one told him to take that third bump of a body, though.

Trump is the reason why that third bunk is not in themselves anymore. If you go back and look at it, when Trump became president and he started doing, you know, rearranging the first, federal laws and doing the stuff he was doing. He didn't want to stop that. Biden came in. You hear about nothing else. You heard about nothing else. Oh, with prison reform? Well, I mean, Trump signed in, he signed in a law like the Second Chance Act. He signed, like, all these things that,

and here's what, here's what my buddy Pete likes to say. Well, he didn't write that. That was already there. Right. It was there. It's been there for years. No president. It signed it. Nobody signed. Trump came in and said, yeah, I'll sign it. And he signed the one that said, like, remember, we only, we're supposed to get, you're supposed to get 15% good time. The way they calculated, it's 87 and a half percent. So they were, you were getting screwed out of like, I forget what it was, nine days a year. Yep. And Trump came in a game.

And not only did he sign it, he signed it retroactive. Right. The guys that are in there, you have to give them that time. Yeah, still A and it is. Right. That's the A. So, the viewers literally, there's all these, you know, was it huge? Maybe it wasn't huge, but it was all these little things that could have been done the whole time.

that the Democrats didn't do no you know and I think to me right now you could alleviate the budget by saying look you got a ton of white collar criminals you got a ton of nonviolent drug offenses that honestly they know how serious it is if you put them on ankle monitors dump some of that money into probation get some more probation officers close some prisons dump those guys back out get them working you know because let's each inmate costs, you know, people will say, oh, it's $32,000 a year. No, that's what they allocate for the prison. Right. What it actually does, it also removes money out of that you're not contributing to society. It really, that the figure is over $50,000 a year that incarcerating

someone costs the United, or cost society. That test bills. Right. So why would I pay 30 something thousand to incarcerate you and lose the money you would be paying in for taxes? Why wouldn't I put you out there have you pay your own stuff and put you to work and have you monitored. I can monitor and piss test you whenever you want to. Whenever you want to, you've got a probation officer. Like that, the problem is, is like, nobody wants to get behind that because so many people make money off the prison. Yes. I'll count as away. So they don't want to get behind that. And it's an easy sell if you're trying to get elected. I'm hard on crime. Yeah, but you could probably be smart on crime and dump more

of that money into education because if you're more educated I come in a readactive instead of pro-active so one of my slogos is you can't lock the problem up you cannot lock the problem and I can't tell you how many times when I say that and especially if it's law enforcement and

it's politicians around when I say that oh man we got to get into a full fledge argument but anyhow we use this call they use this analogy with me if someone shoots you you don't want them to go to jail and I said yeah I say, but what I want you to do is let's put something in place for me not to get shot.

Because once something's shot, I become a victim. If I die, I ain't going to come back. So let's put something in place before I get shot. Right. That ain't the conversation they want to have because it got like you just thought about the money. Now we got to reallocate some of these funds. We got to do something different with this money. We got to come over some different preventive measures.

We've got to put some other things in place. They just not ready for that conversation. They just want to lean on. We're going to lock them. We're going to lock them up. If locking up, hell, draw us one, draw us a guy worse. Yeah. I'll just say you've been, you've tried that for 30-some-odd years, really, for 40-some-odd years.

Right. You've tried, like, let's lock everybody up as long as we possibly can't afford to. And that obviously has not work. It doesn't work. So maybe there's something else. You know, there's a program right now. I forget what it was. I mean, I don't know the name of it, but it's basically, it's like a bunch of fathers.

who have kids but they're fathers and they go into like middle schools and high schools and they're in there and they basically shepherd kids that don't have fathers and they they talk to them they mentor them and they're in the high they go in the middle schools at high schools and then of course they they mentor them outside of high school and everything but they're like you know the the thing is is like like that those those parental um role models that are missing and let's face it after the, let's say your mother and your grandmother were adamant that you were going to do the right thing and pushed you and yelled at you and did everything.

The fact is by the time you were 13, you were uncontrollable. Yeah, I was. So you, you feel like a 35 year old woman is going to control a 13 year old boy. He's going to do whatever he wants to do. Exactly. So it's too late. Yeah. You know, so, I mean, they try and get in there early and, and they're, they're curving all

the fights and the shootings and the guns and everything that's going on in these communities. to, like, they were having fights. They said every day they were having multiple fights every single day at the school. These guys came in and they said that, like, had they had a fight in like six months in the school. Right. Just because they're in there. And one thing, like with the Finn Alumni Association, where I work with, I have

my own organization called Owners, which they have an opportunity to nationally nice society. I look into bringing in people just like you because you've been through it. See, you know, you've been through it, you know exactly just told me. I didn't think about writing a book about the citizen guideline. They're so I want to say scared Are their reputations or whatever But they just won't

They don't want to work with us Right I want to work with the felons They don't be in through it They would rather just Stickers over in this corner And whatever happens So it'll

I tell them I tell I tell um organization the idea What we talk about What would I do with the falls I said shit Like

I'd go get somebody I was in prison And just pay them to be on Zoom And teach them people Real Estate I teach them people Stop Market Same shit that I learned

Because that's what gave me me the different mindset of saying, oh, God, I don't have to sell draw. I don't have to rob. So if I learn stock market, I can make this amount of money. If I learn to keep my, you know, do credit repel, make sure my credit is good. I can learn how to flip house. I don't have to sell drawers. Because when you look at the, you look at the mathematical, when you just talked about, selling drawers is a 24-7 job. When you look at the amount of time, you spend selling drawers to the amount of money you make, it just doesn't add. So when you get people, like, I'm still, I'm still, I'm going to throw in car.

incarceration in there oh yeah we that's a whole other different not even i'm gonna say i'm glad you just said that because guess what oh for real i'm glad you said that because people i would ask me all the time how did i become travis luke and i said i don't know i say but it's the worst thing i i say people want to be in my shoes so bad right it's the worst thing again because you just talked about the incarceration but i'm going to give you one even deeper if if somebody wanted to kill me the day I would never see it coming because I've started I've been in tour with so many different people different cities different state I've been a tool with so many different people so me choosing their lifestyle to be becoming leader in the bloods and do all this other shit that I've

done it's like if if that door and I slam right now it's going to it going to shake me up any any moment in any more man go I have to live the rest of my life like if it's going to come I don't know what it's going to come from I don't know when karma going to kiss so to me or they think you killed this person they think you did this is this person i don't know when somebody saw or a brother may jay be like man i'm going to kid i don't know what it's going to cost so i got to live every my life like damn where it's going to come from i don't know where it's going to come from i don't know where it's going to come and if we're sitting in a room mat and if somebody get to moving too much around you go all right i'm going to pay attention to everything so i got to live my life that way so we're

going to we're going to get before you get to that cost i was i tell people this all the time I was more happy and comfortable locked up than I was free because I could kind of it was condensed I could kind of know like it could be him it could be him

out here I never know when it's gonna come I don't know how it's gonna call I don't know if it's gonna come but just in the back of my head I never have a relaxed thing it's the same shit with me losing my fingers if I grab this book

grab this microphone shake your hand shake Kobe ain't I'm always conscious of my fingers being missing so I got to cussily everyday think about my little brother being killed these are the consequences of our actions that we never think about that these kids don't they don't calculate until making any bad decisions you know how they can calculate okay when i got in the gang i never knew i was going to become this gang leader

i never knew that i would have a state up under me i just left fitzgerald Georgia and i was telling them people in fish jerry like i don't care how many kids it is i'm going to come over here and talk these kids and help me kid because i called shots and i had never been here It was people under me in this, I never, I didn't, I wouldn't even know how to get that without the GPA, but I'm over these places. I'm over these places around the state that I had never been to. Got people looking at me and following door or shit that they think that I think they should do.

So you never calculate, I was speaking in on Turner Jarcoe and I had these, he was a bunch of kids and I'm talking, I'm talking to this one little kid because I'm very conscious of, and I'm going to say he was a teen, I'm very conscious of what goes on around me. So I'm paying attention, paying attention. And when we finished spoke, he walked out to me. He was from, he was from, I ain't going to say what part of the night. He was from him, but he came up to me. And he shut my hand.

He looked at my eye and he said, I forgive you. And I'm like, you forgive me for what? He said, look at me real good. He said, I don't look like somebody. And I'm just looking. He still don't know. I still don't know what he's talking about. Until like two days later, I was like, oh, he looked like, and then I go look it up.

Like, oh, this must be your son that's cut. I don't know. He just, my girl with her, she'll tell you the same thing. And if I couldn't think straight for a few days, because we in all been, you're not hard to find. Right. You see what I'm saying? And I don't, I don't know him. I didn't know what I'd done.

He could have called his people and said, I see such as he home. He had all been in. I don't, I want to know where it come from. I was watching, is it Michael Franciscan? Fransis. I forget his name. he's a mobster and I want to say it was him who said somebody said well there's a you know have you heard that there's a hit out on you and he said yeah I've heard that and they said

are you worried he said no I'm not worried he said I'm not worried about the the mobsters that I lit that I dealt with and that I knew he said because they're at a point where they're not going to do anything he said they're at a point where they know me they know what happened happened. They understand. He said, my fear is that some young kid, some young guy trying to make his name for himself decides, I happen to know where this guy is and where he's going to be at a certain time and thinks he's going to make a name for himself by taking, by, by hitting me. Right. He said, that's my fear. He was, but I don't, I don't live my life. He said, really worrying about it because he said, if it's basically the same thing, he said, because it's going to happen.

It's going to happen. It's going to happen. There's not. Can I stop. Right. I did nothing I can do. But that's just fear. So your fear is, your fear is of something that you did 20 years ago. Coming back. And not only coming back, because this guy doesn't even have a beef with you. Right. His whole thing is I'm trying to make a name for myself. I don't have a problem with you. I don't know who you are. I don't really know what happened. But I know that if I'm the guy. It's not son of my bill. Right. They get, is known for killing you. Then that means something to everybody will be impressed by that. Like, are you fucking serious? Like, that's what I have to look. out for an absolute fly in the ointment I have no control over no control over no it is there's no way to live I remember I was in this restaurant called Cracker Barrow I was in Cracker Bar I was in Cracker Bar I eat you one time you love Cracker Bear yeah I'm fished I do I did I've got you we Jeff and I eat there a lot well more comfortably with Crackle Bear but I like it so I'm being Crackle Bear and I'm in not eating and this later walking to me out of the blue and she was like I think you should leave a restaurant

I'm like shit I ain't going to know what you mean I'm kidding I ain't going nowhere and she she was like so you ain't going to leave so one of us got to go and I'm just like I miss here's and shut on the door and she said you spoke any response before my son being killed and I said huh I don't even know I don't know who you here I don't know your son there but it didn't surprise me because my reputation always made the police ask do you know Travis Luke right so something happened do you know I don't mean yet these people question my old whole boy got killed they went to his mama

and basically tried to make her feel like I had something to do with it like the police in my city just always travel loop Travis Luke Travis Luke Travis Luke It's always me. So every time something happened, they bring in my name or so people going to be like, damn, well, maybe he, why are they saying his name? Oh, well, people, and people, people will create a situation. Yes. That is completely wrong just based on a hunch because they want to justify in their mind

that they know what happened. Instead of saying, I don't know what happened, I'd heard this, I heard that, but I don't really know what happened. You know, how many times does somebody end up going to prison for, you know a life sentence because three people think they know what happened come to find out it was a vagrant that was passing through the area and then a DNA test shows that that person raped and killed somebody that you're in prison that's like that interview I did the the guy he's now a lawyer up in New York fucking kid who's like 15 years old who happened to who's kind of an outcast you know he's kind of a geeky kid who knew had a had a couple of with another another student, right, a middle school student and was at home playing with

some of his friends in his little apartment complex a mile or two away from where this girl cut through the woods and was and ended up getting raped and murdered. So they did a, um, they did a, uh, a profile of who it is and that the profile was absolutely wrong. It's definitely somebody who knows her because she was covered. It's definitely, so we know her, They knew her, probably one of her friends, probably somebody from the high school, probably somebody who's an outcast. They go and start talking to kids at the high school. They say, well, look, you know, there is this kind of one kid.

He's a little off. And they know each other. They have some classes. And you ask him, he's like, yeah, I did know her. Like, I knew her. She was in a couple classes. Like, we knew enough to say, I. That was it.

I'm never had a conversation. Well, the cops get him. He's 15 years old. They get him in a room. They keep him in the room for eight hours. They eventually get him to a point where he basically, he's in tears. he's crying he's on the floor they convince him to plead guilty because if if he doesn't say he's did it then the cops are going to hurt him they're outside waiting for him so he ends up saying yes they

and they say you just say you're yes you can go home we'll figure it out later try to basically say this so i can get you out of the building he says yes he doesn't get out of the building they arrest him he goes to jail he ends up maybe he was 17 16 or 17 yeah yeah 16 so he ends up going to jail. He ends up going to trial because now once he gets a lawyer, he's like, I didn't do this. They're semen there, by the way, which they're saying was his semen. They test the semen, come back and say, okay, it's not his semen. But the girl was promiscuous. Now they're lying about the victim. The prosecutor said she's promiscuous. She had sex with this boy earlier that she was dating. Never test the boy. So he goes to trial. He loses. He appeals it. He loses. He

Appeals that, like the Supreme Court won't hear it. He does a search of a, search of, I forget what they call it. They deny it. He's in jail. He's writing letters. He writes letters to the innocence program. They turn him down three times. By this whole time, 16 years later, eventually, Codis comes online.

They tested the DNA against him. It said it wasn't him. They just put it on somebody else. But there was no codis. There was nothing to compare it other than him. So finally, he begs and pleads. and somebody at the innocence program, some low-level lawyer who had just come there eventually says,

can we at least test it against Codis? They tested against Cotus. Turns out it's a vagrant that came across her in the woods, raped her, murdered her. They never looked for him. He ended up killing a school teacher six months or a year later that had like three kids, got convicted of that crime, went to prison, they connect them and find out, guess what?

it was him had the cops done their job one he wouldn't have to spend 16 years in prison plus the millions of dollars they had to pay right and on top of that they might have caught him before he murdered the school right but those cops were so sure they come they made this they had a hunch based on a bad a bad profile they found someone that they felt fixed if and they framed him Like, like that used to police. Yeah. So what is what regular mother do, whose son died, and she hears a bit, little here, here's a little here, a little here, a little here, a little bit of congestion starts swearing where

next thing she knows, she knows for sure you did it. Especially with my reputation. Right. Dessly did it. Yeah, you did it or you ordered it or you told so. And so-so did it on your, that's it, whatever. That's it. That's like, when I was telling you about, the gang, tell you about the gang, they slammed my

house, they slam my little brother. Right. So back to the interrogation, I've been. interrogated someone time. It's just just give me my lawyer. So now, whatever happened from this to point don't mean nothing. But they give me that our time. They always had this thing where they say

you go to sleep if you're guilty. No, I'll sleep because I've been in this room for four hours. Right. This particular time at Rumble, I fell sleeping out. As soon as I fall asleep, they were rushing to the room. Making all this noise rackers, I jump up.

I'm like, hey, if y'all's attention, I make y'all kill me in here. Like, I didn't with the shit they were trying to put i don't i was they were trying to put something on me that i had nothing to do with it it was i i just had nothing to do with the shit you know what i mean like yeah i just they would try to put some on me that that i had nothing entirely to do it and they just were for sure that i had because i was there and i left i was in the club and i just happened to lead early so they just felt like i ordered it to happen and it just was a big situation but it's like i had nothing to do with it but they were for sure that i had something to do it and they

they basically tried to bully me because I had already asked for a lawyer like I'm, whatever, what I'm at my hell? Right. You're not going to tell me, can I call my lawyer? I got a lawyer and retainer. Let me call my lawyer. They went, let me call my lawyer.

They kept my mind and my cell phone to just say, keep me out with nothing. So they're just right. It's the, it's the police man. Like they, I don't know. All of them, I won't say I'll love them were bad, but like you said, one thing can caught that story in their head.

That's just it. And it was the same thing. I'm telling you. Every time something happened, I would just go, then this up in an older age, something happened, I just go wait at my grandma's because I know they're coming. Right.

I just go see them in my grandma's house. Like, they say such should happen or somebody got killed. Somebody should be stopping by any man. Yeah, they'll be here. They come. And it's crazy, boy. Okay.

They would just ride up and down the street. One car until they get the rest of them over there because they had a rule where no police officer approached me by themselves. They always had to come with the force, like with the task force. They wasn't allowed to take. Even my parole officer,

when I got out of the state, state prison. Because he, he, I seen him out duty. And he was just like, man, these people just like, you're such a bad dude. Like, you ever notice when I, when I come to your house to report, I always have two or three ganged tar for cars. I was like, yeah, I know. He's just like, I was ordered to never approach you or never come to your community, or your neighborhood, rather, by myself. So I always have to alert the gangtas for us. They don't come in over and they just basically come over, park up and down the street. Why do you report? Why did I come by the chicken resident. I just like, I don't know, bro. Now, look, at this point, how long have you been out?

Two years. I've been out of the halfway house. I got out of the halfway house last year and me. My sister and brother-in-law are friends with the federal judge. And he, he told my sister, he said, if he makes it past the first year, he said, he's going to be, he's all right. He said, the first year is the absolute hardest. Yes, guys. Yes. He said after that, they pretty much had figured something out to survive and he'll probably be okay. You got to think about it. I've been heard about your podcast for a while and I was like, bro, I'm going to do the podcast. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I just got to get, because I was stealing at that stage is trying to figure out like, boy, if something don't happen soon, I'm just trying to figure the rent. No, I, I, I, you know what I

mean? But I just like, because I didn't want to bring no type of heat your way. You know, I mean. So like, I, once I get my shit together, no, I'm going to do the right thing. I ain't got something to sell. I'm going to come do the park. Because like you say, that first year, it's like, not right now, man. Yeah, I'll get with you later, but not right now, man. Because I'm probably 50-50 by to do something. Right. Something got to give. But that first year, but even, I'm telling

even now I got boundaries in our schools just to even tell my store and help these kids. I'm just not getting my first couple contract. with a turn to school with a fresh start program and DJJ out of and i've been doing this october or this year be a year i've been eating hard every day consistently where they just like they didn't trust me you're gonna do something or the crazy thing yeah what they were saying i'm gonna recruit some games what what yeah from the from from from the people i'm talking to like you you don't think i couldn't walk out my front door and recruits them like you really don't understand like they don't they don't have a clue i promise you they don't have

have a clue it out. And that's the sad part about it. That's what we talked about earlier, about them bringing in people such as others. You know what I mean? They don't bend through it. Instead of don't waste all these millions and millions of dollars on nothing. Right.

They should be allocating them foreign toward us and letting us go in and deal with these kids, like the fathers. If no fathers, some of them probably been in prison, some of them might have been through something. But they bring somebody in like me and you, they got some type of financial knowledge that's been in prison, they could tell them a story and they could see it. Like, you may not like look at it.

But man, we probably went through this when you got out. People probably just like, look at you, he'll be in prison. Like, it's just, me? Yeah, yes. Your demeanor, you probably, I was soft as butter at all. You still got prison on you.

You still got prison on you. You, man, you might want to. The first, honestly, the first year. You're going to be chancisal butt off a butt. Which one you want? The first year, the first year or so, I, everybody that I met that I knew prior to prison, all of them actually said stuff. They're like, you're way,

more aggressive than you ever were before. Like you're shorter tempered, you're just, and I'm thinking, are you like compared to the guys that I was locked out with, I'm like, are you serious? Like, on the masculine scale, they were a 12. Right. And I was, I might as well be

wearing a dress. Like, you know, but you get out here among everybody and it's like, I'm now an eight. You know, it's so soft. And of course, let's face it, it's 10 times softer getting out of prison than it was before I went in because now people don't know if they're guys or men or women or you know you don't know they it's so the society so confused right now

very it's so it's like all right you got to be kidding me um but yeah but i mean i you know obviously i you know i don't think i'm of course now i'm so so relaxed and and you know gain a little bit of weight i'm sleeping in a little bit later i'm actually not sleeping in i was up at like like 4 30 the last morning no i i i wake it doesn't matter if i go to bed at 10 or 11 i'm up at 4. The guards turned the lights on at five. At five. My brother, my brother was rolling away. I was headed out to the gym.

At four, for the first year I got out at about four o'clock, just before four o'clock every day, I get anxious. Like, I felt like I need to be. You got to be yourself waiting. I'll fight in with that now. That's, yeah. And I kept waiting because, you know, after 13 years, I kept waiting. And I really genuinely felt like any day now they're going to come. and say, Mr. Cox turned around, you know, like, they fucked up and let me out.

Like, it was an accident. That's how bad, like, and that, that took maybe, I want to, I'm going to say six months. Maybe it was six months to a year, but I genuinely kept feeling like they were going to, like, something was going to happen. They were like, yeah, listen, turns out we made a mistake. Yeah. And that took about a year or so. Because you still had a good, a little bit of your sentence before you got a, yeah, I was,

it wasn't quite 13 years. I did a little over, like, 12, almost 13. How much you had love before you got released? When I got released in 2019, 2019, you know? So in July, so in July, it'll have been, this July, it'll be five years and I'll be off probation. Right. Which is another thing that hinders you, you know, I can't travel, I can't, you know. And it's because I have a financial crime.

I say, they're all to all, every, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you. most people you know you fill out your report right every month you feel you know hey how it should make maybe this much made this much me it's i made this much here's where it came from here's copies of my bank statements here's copies of my fucking you know it's just nonstop it's it's like it's all these four you got to mail out this because that form on the computer doesn't doesn't allocate for getting a check for a keynote speaking it doesn't allocate because you know it's made for somebody who has a W-2 job. Right. It's not made for somebody who got $1,000 here, $500 here, $2,000 here, $1,700 from here. You know, because no one place come, no, you know, no one thing pays all the bills. So you can't put, it's got two places. It's nothing on that form. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's not pain. The career, the last time I see my federal probation officer was January. My state probation officer. Was that every month? he just haven't

I haven't came out to the house I haven't seen him so I'm in my mind I think he'd try to give you enough rope to hang yourself you know what I mean because I don't see him

and I think when I seen him that one time I went to find him like what's up you know what I mean like oh you're straight oh I got eyes and ears everywhere

if you do something I catch not my state probation office that later right now oh she oh she would think she would think

she would think why they probably they probably just well she got it because they laid a word me to death You get me? But my federal, I haven't seen, I haven't seen a duel. I don't even remember my dual name.

I don't. Honestly, I haven't seen a dude. So I think he's just, the mafia will call me and be like, where are you? I'm, I'm at home. This is what happened last time. She goes, I'm at home. She said, well, I just drove by your house. Your car's not there. And I said, and I went, I sold my car last month. I sold it like three, four months ago.

Right. And she's like, why did you sell your car? I said, because I never use it. I'm paying $600 a month for a car that I never use. And I never leave my house anymore. Right. And she was like, well, I'm going to be there in five minutes. I said, well, I'll be here.

I was like, it was like a backup of a local. Right. She came in. She walked in. She's super nice. Right. She had a recruit with her. Like somebody she's training and like they came in.

We talked for a little bit and they walked around. She kind of looked around and opened a couple doors and said, all right, see you. I was like, all right. See you. Like, cool. She's so much better. She's way better than my, the first year I had a probation officer. She, I would, you know, are they different levels of this chick?

she's coming by every single month calling me in every few months having me do a piss test every time she comes by I'm doing a piss test like I don't have a drug charge I don't have a drug problem peeing this cup like what's going on I haven't never been are you serious that's so fucking unfair you're you're chewing up cracking shit you can't you can crack like family have they ever

I'm telling you I really believe they try to get me to hang myself. I'm going to tell my probation. I forgot his name. I don't even know his name. I can see the man in January. I don't even know his name. I don't want to say mine because the first year I was on probation.

Say the name. I said her. I just said her first name on a podcast. And like it came out. Like two days later she called me up and she goes, Mr. Cox. And I said, yeah, she goes, I see you did concrete, which is the podcast I did. She said, I see you did concrete recently. said, yeah, I did. She said, Mr. Cox, I don't want to be famous. Do you understand?

She said, I would appreciate if you don't mention my name again. I said, you know what? My bad. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm embarrassed that you know, I need to be nice to this woman. I can't get her on my bad side. Like I'm like, I'm embarrassed that you had to call me. Right. I don't, you know, I start talking. I don't even think. I don't even realize, you know, how time I stop thinking. You can, you know, when I realize that, oh, right, the can. You know, when I realized that, oh, right, the cameras are right there because I'll I straighten up right and then as we talk it's just I just talking and then I realized oh wait you're on you my my wife told me you need to straighten up and hold your shoulders so the posture yeah straighten your own I wore this orange I

weren't I don't usually wear orange but I wore orange for you what you want to make you like I'm gonna say with you I'm all right listen I'm I really try to meet so see the wrong thing that's why all my story's like we might already have a problem just because we said drugs the word drugs so many times with being monetized and then you said I like Trump

that's probably algorithm's going to be like oh now I felt I already feel like I'm shadow banned because I had some Trump paintings up here yeah I did shadowed yeah I had to take those down I don't know what happened

I feel like I got shadow bands for that probably did fine it's fine that's fine it um all right anything else we good so you want me to put the any links in the description box you know like we can put links in the description box um and um yeah that's it right put some links what what are the links for your book what else do you have the book on amazon i have i have the ebook version on amazon but i got another website for the book in my

merch so the on webs delete for that to be filing the conscious that were for the link for that and just on our social media platform is I am Travis Loop. The one name that I was trying to get rid of, I was just like, fucking, I'm just going to keep it. Like, why don't you have this in a physical copy on Amazon? You are on it? You on the truth? Yeah. I'd be bullishing.

Okay. They didn't need to get it put them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just, I said, I talked to a guy who told me, oh, they don't do that. I went, what? He was no, on Amazon, you can only do ecopy. I was like, no, you can go back into the KDP or whatever it's called. Go back on there.

There's a button you can click. That's it. And he came back. He was like, I can't believe it. He's like, I got to do it. I'm going to do it while

I'm on the roll if I can get my iPhone work, but I'm going to do a while I'm on the road. But I, one thing I had to say, even just being back around you, just listening to you,

like, I see some stuff that I need to take to get my shit. You know what I mean? Push forward to it because I think I get stuck and trying to do too many things at one time.

You know what I mean? Instead of just getting ton of these on one thing or two things is just stay and focus on it. That's what I'm a work on put, making sure I get to put on on, well, the e-book version is on Amazon, but I'm going to make sure I get a hard kind of put on because I know it's just like scissors and butter. All right. I appreciate you guys watching the podcast. If you liked it, do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so you get notified. Leave me a comment in the comment section and I'll try and respond. Also, if you're interested in contacting Travis, we're going to leave his contact information and the link to the book and to his merch. at his website and everything else in the description box.

Really appreciate you guys watching. Thank you very much. Also, if you really liked the podcast, please consider joining my Patreon. It's only $10. That's really very little money. I appreciate it, especially nowadays. Thank you very much.

I appreciate it. See you.