Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Gene Borrello Exposes Joey Merlino, Vlad TV, & Mafia Secrets

Starting point is 00:00:00 When I went on the Vlad TV show, they edited. Listen, guys, it was a hundred times worse than what he put out. The guy put work, and he definitely was a gangster. But I have DMs from all Philadelphia people. They give me so much dirt on this guy. They did a whole show on me. I'm waiting for him to do Rout of the Month on me. I'm going to tell you why he won't.

Starting point is 00:00:16 I was going to say, so when you and a Merlino sitting down? Well, that's, well, I've heard this before. Yeah, it was talk. Well, let's talk first about the Merlino thing. Absolutely. Everybody, everybody waits for that when I sit down. Before you mentioned. that when you walked in, Wade had told me that he said, well, you know, there's,

Starting point is 00:00:33 there's an issue with the Merlina right now in him. And I was like, well, it's big. It's huge. We're the only, we're the beefing so big right on the internet. So bad. So what, what started that? You didn't hear what he said. He did say a funny thing.

Starting point is 00:00:43 I'm not going to lie. He goes, I want to give a, um, make sure everybody's safe for the storm. Everybody, except for Borrello. He goes, except for Borrello. Out of everybody this guy beeps with. I'm on his mind 24-7. He's talking about everybody. And then he'll go, except for Borrello.

Starting point is 00:00:59 He goes, because he just. always got some with me because I bring up things that he don't like. What, what was, what was, was there a catalyst this time? Because at one point, there was an issue and then it started dying down and then it, what it should back up. Because he can't, because he don't, because what happened was we were going at each other. He, we were going at each other. And what had happened was that, uh, he said something, uh, of the nature that, um,

Starting point is 00:01:22 what did he say about me? Oh, he talked about me, Sammy, my cousin Anthony. You what? He talked about me, my cousin and, and, um, Sammy Gavano. We took a picture together. Okay. And he was calling us rats and all that stuff. Look at these fucking... And then I says, oh, well, tell him to go worry about his wife who's getting banged by his friends while he's in jail. And that set, he lost it because it's the truth. Right. That's the truth. They found a guy under her bed when they raided the house looking for the guy with the one leg. Yeah, yeah. That's a true story. So I'm giving facts. You know what I mean? You're just talking, I'm giving you things that are hurting your feelings. So what I had to explain to everybody in Philadelphia is that you're messing with the worst kid because I'm never going to stop.

Starting point is 00:02:00 I'm relentless. I'm relentless. It don't matter. I beef with the worst guys in the five boroughs. I love this stuff. So what you're doing is you're feeding the monster.

Starting point is 00:02:09 So when you come at me, I want this. I like it. So let's go. Let's have fun. So I wouldn't stop now. So it kept him just going. And then he did a whole show on me.

Starting point is 00:02:17 Did he do like what rat of the month or something? Oh, they did a whole thing. I'm waiting for him to do rat of the month on me. Honestly, because let's face it. He won't. I'm going to tell you why he won't. Because he was hanging out with you and he will deny it.

Starting point is 00:02:28 And he was sitting with you. And he probably knew that you were no good the whole time, and he was sitting with you. So that's why he denies it. Because there's a lot of guys that I know not reached out to me. He said he was hanging out with them. He knew they were cooperators, and he still was hanging out with them. So he won't bring you up. That's why.

Starting point is 00:02:41 That's disappointing. Because here's the thing, like, he can get, like, I've got stuff on me just being brutal about it. Matthew, I'm friends with the guy that sat with him every day for three years. And he says he don't know who the guy is and doesn't know who he is. He's on his wiretaps for three. John Rubio had this guy on wiretaps for three years and Clems. I don't even know who he is. I never spoke to him.

Starting point is 00:03:00 I never spoke to him. Right? Thousands and thousands of hours of recordings of them hanging out in Florida together, partying. And, well, I was going to say, and just in general and being on YouTube in general. Like, it's just, you're supposed to deny everything. And, you know, his groupies are like, you know, oh, well, he never admits that there is, that there is the mob. He never says, like, I'll let you finish you, I'll go, got. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:03:23 Like, you're splitting hairs here. He's on YouTube. He's. I'm going to break this down for your fans. All right. Yeah. So what I'm going to break down for you is, so when you're in that mob life, right? I broke the code.

Starting point is 00:03:33 Everyone knows that. I cooperated. Any guy to cooperate on the internet. You're sitting on YouTube. You're a cooperator. Even if you didn't make a deal with the government, okay? Even if you didn't do a profit or anything, mafia rules. He's 60-something years old.

Starting point is 00:03:47 He goes back to the old school days, pretty much. He came up in the heyday. I'll give him his credit. The guy put work in, he definitely was a gangster. But with the mob life, let me break this down to you, Matt. You could do one wrong thing. Look, one little thing. Everything you worked for is gone.

Starting point is 00:04:02 It don't matter if you're the biggest hitman in the world. You could have killed 60 guys. You do one thing to make them look bad or anything resemble a rat or anything. Your career is over. It don't matter what you did. Look how vicious I was in the street. I had a reputation you couldn't imagine. It don't matter.

Starting point is 00:04:16 You do one little thing, your life's over. He knows he was a boss. He set rules, bro. You know you cannot do. No internet, no social media, no Instagram. Those are real rules. We weren't allowed to have social media, no Instagram. When I was in that life, you couldn't post.

Starting point is 00:04:32 My friend, Michael Mason, almost got killed for putting a picture up on Instagram. He was a made guy. He put up a picture like this, like a modeling picture. They were trying to have him killed. You cannot do that. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah. So don't sit here and tell me that you don't know what you're doing.

Starting point is 00:04:44 You cannot shelf yourself. Right. You cannot do that. You're the boss of the family. You can go, hey, listen, guys, I'm out of here. I'm not doing this, no mother. I'm like, what the fuck you talk about? You run the family.

Starting point is 00:04:54 Right. He got shelved, okay? He knows what he's doing. breaking every rules under the Locotianosha. The five families is furious with him. Furious, it's on wiretaps that guys are like, what the fuck are you doing? Right.

Starting point is 00:05:05 You're just bringing more and more heat to it. Don't get me wrong. Is the guy ballsy? I'm not going to sit here and lie in the guy. Does he have balls? 100%. Is he one of those guys that he go fuck yourself, do what you got to do?

Starting point is 00:05:14 He has my personality. That's why we have the same personality. Go fuck, we don't care who's hill. He's right now breaking all the rules, but he is labeled no good. You know what I'm saying? So by Laocotianosia rules, mafia rules, he is breaking every single rule.

Starting point is 00:05:27 Because why? He don't care. Who's going to do something? It's like the 80s. 40 years ago, he'd be on unsawed mysteries in two seconds. They don't even know where he is. No, nowadays he knows no one's killing nobody no more. No one's hurting nobody no more.

Starting point is 00:05:42 It's just going to be, oh, he's no good. Don't talk to him no more. Who gives a fuck? Right. You know what I'm saying? But he's still labeled in that life no good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:51 But he knows no one's going to do nothing about it. I wonder what he's doing for actual money. He's making a lot of money on that. You think he's making – I know he reached out. I know a guy reached out about this. I'll tell you how sick in the head he is, that he thinks he's like Tom Hanks. A guy reached out to him and says, yo, I want you on my show. I love you, da, please, I'll give you money, $25,000.

Starting point is 00:06:10 That's insane. He acts for a podcast. These guys don't make money like that. You know what's money you've got to make to cover $25,000? What is this? The Vlaad TV? Yeah. The guy's a, you'll please call him a show.

Starting point is 00:06:20 I'm a huge – like, just so happy to even talk to the guy. He goes, oh, I'm sorry, $25,000 and come on your show. I can't imagine anybody paying him to this. Are people paying them $25 grand? I think Vlad gave him $10.000. But Vlad pays, and Vlad makes huge money. I like Vlad. I get along with Vlad very well.

Starting point is 00:06:37 And when I went on the Vlad TV show and I did his show, I said, please don't edit this out. I went, they edited it. Listen, when I went off on him, guys, it was a hundred times worse than what he put out. And Vlad goes, I had to because they were suing. Oh, they're a third. I want them, no, he's a little bitch. He was saying, I'll sue you, take it down. Because it was so brutal when he put it up on.

Starting point is 00:06:57 The Vlad, you know, when your fans, you have to see it first that pay for it. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was so brutal what I did to him on Vlad that he actually had, like, lawyers calling almost to get it down. And he had to edit it. That's how bad it was. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I brutalized him for everybody.

Starting point is 00:07:12 When you went on Vlad, did they, was Vlad there or was it the FaceTime? Oh, really? Oh, he wanted to see him. Yeah, Vlad sat on me. I show up thinking. I beat on everybody. I think it's going to be Vlad. I sit down.

Starting point is 00:07:24 It's FaceTime. Oh, he did that with you. All right. Yeah. I was with him. And, you know, the thing, yeah, but you know what, with Vlad, I'll be honest with you, he, to me, he's like Joe Rogan. That's my opinion. He's right under Joe Rogan.

Starting point is 00:07:35 It's Joe Rogan and him. That's my opinion as far as, like, show was. And the guys that he has on his show are all huge celebrities. Yeah. You know what I mean? So when he told me personally, he could not stand Joe and Molino. When they did the show, he was such a dick. He operated like an asshole.

Starting point is 00:07:51 He wanted to answer no questions. He was like, would I pay this guy for? Yeah. And then he was complaining to Vlad, tell him Valena. Lad, oh, I want to air it on my thing first. Flag goes, what are you talking about? I just paid you. Now you're going to air my show on your thing?

Starting point is 00:08:04 Yeah. Like, what do you think? You're still a gangster? Like, you're bullying me? This is how he operates still and behind the scenes. You know what I mean? So, but he's definitely making a lot of money in that world right now. Yeah, I was going to say, everybody I know, well, I've only known a couple of people that

Starting point is 00:08:17 have told me, like, anybody who's kind of invested in him, he just walks away from it. Like, give him $100,000 to do this and this. And then he does a half-ass job. And then he walks away. And when they're like, hey, what's going on? You're supposed to do this? He just tells him to go f*** off. My phone, I have DMs from all Philadelphia people.

Starting point is 00:08:32 They hate him. Right. A lot of people hate him from Philly. They give me so much dirt on this guy. I hate that. One guy goes, yo, I got paperwork on him. He's a rat. I'm like, bro, I don't want to see that.

Starting point is 00:08:41 I don't believe that. You know, not that I'm saying that, I don't believe you ever cooperated with the law. No, I don't think. I'm not good. One thing about me, I tell her how it is. I don't bullshit to make things worse. He definitely didn't sit with the law.

Starting point is 00:08:52 But what he's doing now is considered. no good to the mafia life. But he never sat with the law. He never cooperated against anybody. But he definitely is breaking all the mob rules right now where they could say you're no good. You're basically doing rap moves. You're on the internet talking about

Starting point is 00:09:08 and your nicknames the show is called Skinny Jolly. That looks insane. You know what I'm saying? To a mob guys that think about guys that worked under him, Matt, and took 20 years for this guy. This is who I'm dying in prison for? He's on YouTube.

Starting point is 00:09:21 You know what I'm saying? There was a guy that contacted me that said he had a video where it says that Merlino, you know, was, what, basically, he, he was trying to tell me, like, it says that he was cooperating. Yeah. And then I know, well, I know, because when I saw the video. I'm not going to lie in them.

Starting point is 00:09:37 I hate the guy, but he wasn't a rat. No. Well, then I, he actually, he sent me the video. And I watched it. It was like, okay, that's not, like, I don't see that that's what he's saying at all. Right. He took something out of context, and he was trying to say that's what he's saying. And I was like, yeah, if this is the best you like that, I'm sorry, I'm not interested.

Starting point is 00:09:51 Nah. You know, so. Man, I'll be honest to you, and between you, I don't like Snuff more than him. You know why I don't like Snuff more than him? I'm going to tell you why. Because Snuff thinks he's a gangster now because he's sitting with him. Right. Like this guy, and I'm not, like, this guy would run from my shadow.

Starting point is 00:10:06 So from him to sit with Jermilino and talk about, like, guys that actually really did things. Like, I was a guy I was really putting work in. So when I sit here and see this fat little herb talking about like, like, bro, you're not Jerry Malino. Like, I understand me and Joey are going to go out of it. Joey has validation. Everybody knows he shot Nikki Schofo's son on Halloween Day. Everyone knows that. He got work.

Starting point is 00:10:26 This guy got no work. You're sitting here just riding your uncle's co-tail, whatever he is. You're a little used car salesman. You know what I'm saying? You're a car salesman. You're going to sit here and talk about guys that actually did real shit in their lives. Whatever we did, at the end of the day, you can't take from what we were. Okay?

Starting point is 00:10:41 So I was a notorious guy in the street. You're not going to sit here and talk about me when you're a nobody. So he aggravates me more. That's why I want to really slap him. I really do. Like, I swear. Matt, I swear. I'm not, but I really want to.

Starting point is 00:10:52 Like, he really irks me. You know what I'm saying? He's the only one that really irks me. Are you off favor? Oh, I'm off. Okay. Yeah, they hate that I'm off. Everybody hates them off.

Starting point is 00:11:01 Yeah. Yeah. You can't be slapping people. Regardless of being on or off paper. Well, I could break the news on your show that my assault case was dismissed. Oh, was it? I had an assault case in Tampa. For what?

Starting point is 00:11:12 Somebody told me they suck is private in the bar. Yeah. And it didn't go well for him? No. I got an assault, but it was torn away. Actually, yesterday. Okay, that's good. Nice.

Starting point is 00:11:24 Gone, so. Did they drop the charges? Yeah, pretty much. The salt was thrown away and then... The guy didn't drop them. The cops just said, yeah, you can't know. He did kind of, too. It was like, it was a stupid situation, but like I said, I just had to get used to Tampa.

Starting point is 00:11:40 Yeah, well, I think in general, I think at least in Tampa, you know, it's like if somebody mouse off to you and you smack them in Tampa, honestly, honestly, typically, it's okay. No, they call on the police. Oh, no, they're going to call the police, they might call the police, but when the cops get there, they might arrest you, but they're probably going to drop it because they're like, you know, my background. No, because it's my background. Well, if it was a normal person, you know, they're going to be like. That's the reason. The problem I always going to have my life is the my background. So they always take everything I do seriously. Right. How prevalent is drug trafficking in the New York in New York mafia? Huge. Okay. Because, you know, you watch the movies like you watch, you know, Godfather and stuff. You know, like it. And even even since then, honestly, where they're always talking about. how like, oh, we don't deal in drugs, we don't, you know, but it's... Until they find that you make it, you can make $100,000 a week off it, then it's like, oh, okay, let's do it on the low, you know what I mean? Does the mob in New York, or just in general that you know of, do they do business with the cartel?

Starting point is 00:12:34 No. No? No, so we're not supposed to operate with them. And I'm gonna, I always say this on shows. We're against their beliefs in the way they operate. I mean, obviously you might know some of them, but we don't work with them ever. They believe in raping women, killing children. That's totally against what we believe in.

Starting point is 00:12:51 That's not an organization. That's a terrorist group. That's how we look at them. Right. When I was at least in the life, we don't operate like they do. Did your crew, the Bonanno, gangsters, deal in drugs? You already kind of answered that. Yeah, they were dealing.

Starting point is 00:13:03 I was dealing on the law. We all were. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Everyone was doing that. Did you ever, did you or any of these guys ever target drug dealers, like rip them off? That was my, that was like my bread and butter. Yeah, that was my bread and butter.

Starting point is 00:13:17 That's what we did. I had a mafia crew and then I had a robbery team. we targeted drug dealers. That's what we targeted. Okay. We would spend money to rob you. You know what I'm saying? We would put money, invest money, put tracking devices on you, watch you because we're going after the big drug dealers. Where we're going in your house is three, 400,000 cash, drugs, jewelry, because they have stash homes that they use these guys and they're big time. Right. Not these little fleaies on the corner. I'm talking about guys

Starting point is 00:13:40 that are moving weight. You know what I mean? Where you're going in there and there's a safe for three, 400,000 and 500,000 and 500, you know what I mean? So that's what we were targeting. So we'll spend 10, $10,000 to get out of the equipment on rent cars and everything. because we're going to, you know, make it back and then some. Yeah, I was, I was to say I was locked up with a guy who put a tracking device on a car. And, and literally followed the guy for weeks and, I mean, just tracked him for weeks. And what looked at just, he kept going to like the same five houses over and over and over again. Well, he knows, that's exactly who he did.

Starting point is 00:14:07 He's doing his homework. Eventually he figured out. Well, it depends what tracking device he had. There's two of them. The one where you can't watch him as he goes, the one where you have to get it back off him, and then you could see where he went. Okay. I had the one where we could watch you as you. you go. $5,000. You put them on track of trailers. You could actually literally watch the person

Starting point is 00:14:26 as he goes. The other ones are $1,000. And you can only got to go retrieve it. And then you put it and you see where he went. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I had the good one. Right now I'm writing a book. Yeah. I'm writing a book with another guy about the, it's a, it's about the Chinese triads. Okay. And I actually just read a book called Ghost Shadow Crew. Yeah, the Ghost Shadows. Yeah, Go Shadows. I was locked up with the Ghost Shadow guys. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:53 So does, I mean, does the mob work with them? All right, so that's before my time. They were a lot. They were really big in Manhattan. Okay. Down in the Triads were really big in Little Italy. I mean, Chinatown over there in Manhattan. They were actually brutal, killing people in broad daylight machine guns.

Starting point is 00:15:10 They were brutal in the 80s. Big ha-dealers, lunatics. Obviously, in the 80s, yeah, definitely the mob dealt with them, 100%. With that 100%. Because I just read a book. I can't really. Yeah, 100% they dealt with them. And they're vicious fox. All right. Well, this guy just got out of it. One of the guys, one of the main guys just got out of prison. He did like 25, 30 years or something and just got out of prison.

Starting point is 00:15:30 Well, I know one of their main ones cooperated. He was in our Ferranton. I forgot his name. He was one of the big ones. He was a killing bastard. He was in there. Yeah, this guy, they didn't go in too much about him killing. Of course, he just got out of prison. So he probably doesn't want to go back. Big Frank was cooperating when you first became involved. in with the mafia yeah uh he was the first rank for the banana family to have a cooperative was that like a big deal at the time yeah okay we had we had no rats Matt right that family the bananas had no donnie brasco wasn't a mob guy he was just the FBI agent that was in the mob yeah I've questioned about him too before that the banana crime family had no rats right we were like one of the families that didn't have cooper then we became one of the worst

Starting point is 00:16:15 ones with it we had the whole family go bad right Frank Copa we started a whole nightman because everybody was so scared because all the murders were going to come out. Remember, these guys were killing lots of people. So when he cooperated, he gave up murders. Right. You know, anyone could do 10 years. Anyone could do 15 years. Can you do life?

Starting point is 00:16:34 You never know where someone stands when it becomes the elf. Don't matter how many people you killed or who you are, some people can't die behind a cage. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's just what it is. You know, these guys that are always like, oh, I wouldn't this and I wouldn't. Like, bro, you've got a wife and three kids. Right. Like, you say that until you're sitting in the visitation.

Starting point is 00:16:50 And everyone's leaving, everyone's gone. Right. Or, and your wife's begging you and saying, how am I going to take care of these three kids? What are you doing? You can do five years? Easily said than done. I tell everybody that. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:16:59 So when he cooperated and then I remember when Joe Messino cooperated, that was nuts. I mean, my guys who I work for his faces just look like, what the fuck? Big job. The ear, the Papa Joe. Like, nobody can believe it. You know what I mean? That was like God cooperating. So I guess so the question is, is.

Starting point is 00:17:20 is that that happened, yet Big Frank died peacefully in Sarasota. Right. Like, what happened to the tracking these guys down? That's over. That's been over it since over 20 years now. All right. You know, who the hell's going to order to go kill an informant? That's a death penalty case.

Starting point is 00:17:38 Yeah. You know, who's going to even do that? You got to understand something. Yeah, don't give me wrong. You're always an order away. I tell everybody this. If you get the wrong guy in charge, people will die again. Just that nobody orders it no more.

Starting point is 00:17:49 If you get a lunatic that's in charge, if you place the order, it's got to be done. But nobody's doing those orders no more. So they're like, no way, I'm not ordering enough of witness to be killed. You think it's because the FBI takes it so seriously? With mafia, yeah, because, you know, they don't ever let us regroup again. They always keep their, I remember they told me, it says, Gene, we always keep our foot on their neck. Because if we don't, when the terrorists came, that we re-reed, when 9-11 happened, that's when we regrouped. Right.

Starting point is 00:18:14 They crushed us. Then after 9-11 came, that's it. We regrouped because they were focusing on the terrorists. Then they said, oh, we got to get back to these motherfuckers. They took over the city again. And they came back and crushed us and collapsed the whole shit. The whole shit that collapsed it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:30 So that's how they operate. You know what I mean? When you first got involved with the mafia, the incarcerated boss of your family, you know, Big Joey, was coopering. Like, what was that like? What are the conversations that are going on? Like, what is the feeling in the... Oh, everybody was as white as the light.

Starting point is 00:18:48 You know, I mean, people that never did anything with this guy, you know, think about, so this guy ordered 19 murders. This guy, you know, controlled the family. He was on the head of the commission at the time. Right. Do you know the stuff that he knows? Yeah. He's the biggest cooperator ever. No one's, there's no bigger cooperator than Joe Massino.

Starting point is 00:19:04 That's the biggest co-op. But as far as my people, I work directly. I'm from Howard Beach. That's where he lived. So his house on 84th Street. The whole Howard Beach is just nothing but banana, banana guys. Right. There's like a hundred of us in that day, but so.

Starting point is 00:19:18 think about that. Everyone's having a heart attack. Nobody believed it until it hit the paper. So his wife, Ronnie, never forget this. Ronnie went to the house and said, is this true? And she said, yeah. He couldn't believe it. He's like, there's no way. No way. Like, nobody believed it. You know what I'm saying? Like, get the, until it hit the front page of the paper that everyone believed it. But the wife told Ronnie, no, it's true. He's like, there's no way. There's no way. There's no way. There's no way. I don't know why that reminds me of that that's of the the um but the scene in a but wait I'll tell you Al Di Arco cooperated he was a boss Sammy Gravano obviously was a boss he cooperated okay um the boss of Cleveland cooperated many bosses cooperated but Joe Messino's

Starting point is 00:19:58 probably the highest ranking boss that ever cooperated you know I mean because he was the boss of all bosses at almost at one time it makes me think of the the Donnie Brascoe thing when they go in they and they they they tell them that Donnie Brasco yeah is a is a you know it is is FBI and they're like know and they show them pictures. Well, a lot of people died over that. You know, and you got to think about it. The FBI knew they were going to get people. You know what's crazy about it? And I know they don't care because he's all vicious people. The FBI knew for this guy being in that family that Sunny Black was dead. Lefty was going to die. Mirror was going to die. They knew they were getting people killed. So many people died over him being in that crew. It wasn't like they just

Starting point is 00:20:35 went to jail. They were killed. Sunny Black got his hands chopped off for shaking the hands of an agent. You know what I'm saying? They knew what was going to come with this. They don't give a fuck you know i mean they knew people were going to die behind him going in that circle don't they go in though and kind of like like to wash their hands of it don't they kind of go in and say look we'll give you an opportunity to cooperate we'll get you into witness production i don't even think they gave a fuck no they hated you understand something you know and i can't disagree with them they were serial killers guys right they were butchers oh you see you see i mean if you watch it and i know i only have the i only have the movies to go by right butches butchers

Starting point is 00:21:07 but if you look at like like good fellows like fucking that's real stories that's my neighborhood Like, they're butchies. My grandpa grew up a time eating these guys. These guys were going banks. Like, they were in the West. These guys were serial killers. So the agents really, in the days, like, all right, you know, they're going to get killed. They're going to get killed.

Starting point is 00:21:21 Like, they knew they were going to die. Right. You know, what do you think was going to happen? Joe Messino was behind all of this. Joe Messino got them all killed. Joe Messino got Sonny Black killed. Joe Messino got all the captains killed in the basement. He was on everything.

Starting point is 00:21:33 And then he flips. Because they never found Sunny Red in the bodies. They never knew where they want until he cooperated. John Gotti buried them for him. You didn't know that bad. Angel Viran Gadi helped them move those bodies. I have a buddy who knows a ton about the cartel, and we've talked about the cartel and everything.

Starting point is 00:21:51 So here's something that happens with the cartel and with the Seniloa cartel, like Mayo Zimbada and Chapo, is that at one point, the other cartels were taking over. And Senaloa was, it was losing its power, right? So at one point, they were extremely powerful and they were losing their power. This is back in the, I want to say, in the late 90s, early 2000s. And Chapo, I think was a Chapo or Mayo, they go to a lawyer that they have. I was locked up with my, El Mayo's son.

Starting point is 00:22:26 Oh, yeah, yeah. And they give the lawyer information to give the DEA. And he starts cooperating with the DEA, basically to give them information on the heads of the other cartels. They're allowed to tell anybody but their own. Right. They sort of cracking their heads. That's what I'm told, but then I hear that's not true. So I was told by them that you're allowed to cooperate on your rivals, but then I was told

Starting point is 00:22:47 by other ones, no, it's not true. They just say that because when Al Chapo was being testified against, Henry got permission to cooperate against El Chapo from Al Chapo. Okay. Yeah, he's done anyway. He says, doesn't get a deal. Yeah. Because I'm done anyway, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:23:02 So that was supposedly, I think people, everyone has an excuse why they cooperate. I never did that. But I think Henry was like using an excuse. Like, oh, he said I could do it. Like, all right, come on, bro. Like, you know, at the end of the day, you didn't want to die in prison. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:14 I was just, that's my excuse. Yeah. I don't want to do the time. I'm sorry. I don't want to die in prison. Yeah. Look, I don't want to die in prison. I mean, we can spread some of this around.

Starting point is 00:23:22 I don't want to die in prison. Jimmy can do five. So-and-so can do seven. Was I mad about what my people did to me? I had an excuse I could have used at the end of the day. Did I want to take that 40 piece? No. No, no, I didn't want to take that 40 piece.

Starting point is 00:23:39 If you look at the indictment, it was crazy, it was just me, violence. It's all it was. And then home invasions and Florida, state, federal, I was getting ping pong. I was done. We're a career criminal background. So to get 37 years, I would have to blow the judge. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was that bad.

Starting point is 00:23:52 You know what I mean? So, you know, the excuses that they used, they try to give me when I was in these units is ridiculous. Oh, I'm like, bro, you don't want to die in jail. Right. Just, that's it. You know what I'm saying? Just say that. So Henry was trying to say, like, oh, El Chapo said I could cooperate, which I don't

Starting point is 00:24:07 believe, but that's what he said. You know what I mean? Right. No one's going to say that. Yeah. And no agent's going to be okay with that. Oh, yeah. Hey, El Chapo, yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:14 He said you could cooperate. Okay. You know, like that don't. Um, well, keep my, that El Mio's, like his kids cooperated. He told me also that he spoke when his father was on the run from the FBI with the highest bounty in like the country. It was like $20 million. You talked about El Mio? Yeah, El Mio.

Starting point is 00:24:32 Okay. Henry called him. They got them to talk on the phone with the FBI. I've heard this too, by the way. I don't buy it. I'm sorry. I'm not going to. I just don't see.

Starting point is 00:24:43 You said the guy never leaves the state of Sinaloa. He never leaves. They just can't seem to catch it. Like, well, obviously they got. They got an understanding, but I just think some of these stories are very far-fetched. I was locked up with them and they're overrated, bro. If they've been looking for this guy in Sinaloa for 40 years. They're over.

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Starting point is 00:26:12 You can't even go over there. The military will run you out. They run them. But when they're not in Mexico, they're nothing. No, I mean, I, well, yeah. You know what I'm saying? When they're over here, you're a four-foot-two guy with a machete. Like, I don't care about you.

Starting point is 00:26:23 You know what I'm saying? Like, in Mexico, you can't go over there. Right. You can't put them over there. That's their power hold. You know what I'm saying? But over here, to me, they're nothing. I don't respect them.

Starting point is 00:26:31 They kill women and children. There's nothing to respect about that. Do you, I mean, I hear you. So, oh, um, What I'm wondering about is what do you think of Mayo getting grabbed by Chopo's son and brought to the United States? Yeah, I know. It's like out of a movie.

Starting point is 00:26:53 I know. That is, it's so, it's inconceit. When I heard that and I went, that is, it is inconceivable that that happens. I mean, that's, that's insane. They're gruesome. You know, where they're from in their country, you don't with them. Over here, I don't care who you are. You know, I don't mean nothing to me.

Starting point is 00:27:12 Over there, they, they operate differently. They're hanging women from bridges. They're doing horrific things. It's brutal. It's not even like, it's not even like something where it's like, it's beyond. It's beyond disgusting. That's, and I always say that because I don't sugarcoat shit. I don't respect that. I, even when I was in there, I was like, I don't want to hear about your body if you killed a six-year-old girl walking to school. Right. I don't care about your murder, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't give a fuck about you, you're killing kids and raping women and video and sent into your rivals. To me, it's disgusting. Mafia, you go after the target. My mom and their, my family

Starting point is 00:27:41 still live in Howard Beach. They say hello to a lot. It don't operate like that. There's nothing to do with them. It's me. You're mad at me. That's how we operate. We don't go and kill your brother, kill your cousin, the goldfish in your house. We don't do that. You know what I'm saying? That's savage. That's terrorism. That's disgusting shit. I don't believe it. I don't like it.

Starting point is 00:27:57 You know, and I'll always say that. Right. Okay. I mean, and I understand that, but I'm still saying that the guy, I'm talking about Maya. Yeah. That is so It is. It's ballsy. Yeah. That's overwhelmingly balzy. They go and they grab them, they bring them, put them in the plane and fly them to the United States. Like that's like that's like a CIA. That's what they do. That's what they do. That's the only way they could get you over there. And you know, and then they still like I don't know if this if this kid, kid, he was what? He was like in his late 20s, early 30s. Like I don't know if he was thinking he's going to, it's a get out of jail. Get out of jail free card. I don't know what he was really thinking because it doesn't seem like he had much of an agreement.

Starting point is 00:28:42 Right. He just thought, oh, they'll let me let my brother out of jail. And that's not happening at all. No, still locked up. Yeah, 100%. You got to have some kind of an agreement. And what's so funny is if he had gotten a lawyer, he probably could have got an agreement. They might help him, though.

Starting point is 00:28:54 They might. They still have to help him. No, I don't think they're going to help him. Because he's continuously helping them right now. Don't think it's just that. I'm not saying that. I know they're going to help him. What I'm saying is had he gotten a lawyer and gone in and said, look, I'm going to get this

Starting point is 00:29:07 guy put him on a plane and fly him here, but I want my brother out and I want to, I think the feds would have done that. Well, think about this. But he didn't have it up fun. Was El Chapo bigger than El Mara? I mean, El Mio was his boss. But at the end of the day, El Chapa was the biggest thing out. Well, it's just because he's flashy. Well, Flores wore a wire on him and they fucked him over. Yeah. Margarillo Flores went in the middle of Mexico in the woods. I'm wearing a wire on this guy. The most notorious feared man probably in their whole area. You've got to have you killed just like that. And they still gave him 14 years. This guy never heard a fly. Right. That's how they operate, you know what I'm saying? Don't think that they're just going to let you,

Starting point is 00:29:38 like you said, walk out, even with an agreement. This guy wore a wire on Alchapa, bro. Went to meet him and wore wires on him. And they still gave him 14 years. Yeah, they really fucked over the Floress twins. Well, because they believe they hid money. There's a lot of the wife just got indicted, you know, there's all kind of shit going on. You know, they don't.

Starting point is 00:29:55 But they did hide money. And they did, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, it's not like they believed it. Like they found the money. Like, they found that, like, your wife's driving up. Oh, Rolls Roy's driving a Rolls Roy. She's wearing minks. Why are you pulling up to visits and on Rolls Roy?

Starting point is 00:30:06 I know. People are just stupid. You know, it was, it was a stupid on their car. I couldn't understand it. And then Mark Wahlberg was giving them a movie deal and then backed out of it. I remember, I was with this guy for three years every day. Not like just, like, high and buy. I was going to sell.

Starting point is 00:30:17 I was hung out with him. He's the one to put me on the Diet Coke. I never had one in my life. I drink them because of him. Is what I'm saying? I was with the guy all the time. I know every story. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:30:24 The only thing is that I told him, they're never going to leave you long because I think 60 million's missing. Yeah. That's how much money he was missing, $60 million. And he had wiretaps on conversations of the prosecutor talking bad about him. Abusing him. It hated him. So it was like a whole thing.

Starting point is 00:30:40 Well, man, see, if the prosecutor hates you, they'll flip on you every time. They hated them. They'll promise you. And then in front of it. So I got to hear about this guy spending $50,000 on dinners. I don't make that. You know, they were just being like, you know, real jealous, you know. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:53 Is the mob involved in like offshore gambling or is it just, oh, okay. Absolutely. That's how you make their money. overseas it's through the computer um bet websites um uh they've been doing that since since it came into the computer 2005 it came in i always remember i used to write the bet so i was like oh 2005 it came in on the computers overseas Caribbean that's it um what's going on with you right now and like we had talked before that you know that well you you've you've written a book. Yeah. And did you option the book and the, or you had optioned the book and the life

Starting point is 00:31:34 rights? So, like, what's going on? So the book became a bestseller. It sold, you know, lots of copies. And a guy had reached out to me like, I don't know, two and a half years ago. He was an actor and in the entertainment business. And he said, Gene, I'm telling you, your book could become a TV show. He kept telling me like, I hear it all the time. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden, he goes, just let me work on it with you. And then all of a sudden, we started getting real feedback of people being really interested in it. Hollywood produces people and everything. And then he had presented it to a group in New York that were ready to film and do the pilot and everything. And I just felt like the money wasn't right. So, well, when you say working on,

Starting point is 00:32:17 is he pitching it or did he write a screenplay or like a first episode or what? Yeah, we have, we have the episodes already written out, the first 10. Oh, okay. Pretty much. And then people like it wasn't just talk it was just basically like it was going to happen i just the money just wasn't right you know what i mean so now we're i can't say the name we're doing it with now right because it's not so it switched to a different production company to a huge production company possibly like the one of the biggest in the world right so that's where the money will be right right you know what you you know is it that the like the the the initial money isn't good enough or that the residual the residual no it was it we didn't to make a pilot

Starting point is 00:33:04 my pilot will cost seven million dollars okay that's what it would cost right think about that yeah yeah yeah are we talking about one episode yes a whole series one episode one episode one pilot so your budget's probably not every episode is probably not seven million but every episode but to make 10 episodes people don't understand that to make 10 episodes could cost 60 million dollars right yeah that's that's that's a lot it's insane that's a lot because we wanted to look like The guy I'm working with was in like real films. Right. Like he's...

Starting point is 00:33:31 He wants to make it look like a real... Modern-day sopranos. He wants to be a modern-day sopranos. And everyone sees that vision. Everyone keeps saying yes, yes, yes, but the money, it's so expensive to do this to where we need the production company that we're working with now can give it to us in his sleep. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle

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Starting point is 00:34:46 Just visit ghostbed.com slash Cox, and use the code Cox at checkout. Again, that's ghostbed.com slash Cox with the code. Cox at the checkout to save a whopping 50% off site wide. You know what I'm saying? So it's just a matter of them giving it. Like right now, I know the people are reviewing the book and seeing what they want to do with it. And it's like people that you can't get in front of if you tried.

Starting point is 00:35:13 Right. No, literally you can't, like he gets probably 2,000 emails a day. I like something like that way. He don't even talk nobody. He created TV shows, this guy about that. Huge TV shows on TV. So Wendy, is there, what, is there, what I already know the answer to this? Like, yeah, I'm like, like, what's the ETA on an answer?

Starting point is 00:35:29 Who knows? Yeah, so, and also I'm going to, like, short films. I'm going to be doing, I forgot to tell you, I'm going to be doing, like, a short film, a private, like, a... As playing you or playing, acting? All acting. Different characters, real filming. He's going to be doing directing, and we're going to do, like, a short film, basically, like, gangster stuff. Okay.

Starting point is 00:35:51 You know, and then I'm also supposed to be waiting on the movie, Pony. I was in another movie called Pony. I have a fight scene and it's a real film. And I'm trying to get into that world. Right. Because everybody keeps telling me I should. Right. But the TV show, if it did happen, I'm not going to be in it myself.

Starting point is 00:36:07 Yeah, yeah. People always say stuff like that. No, I won't. You should play you. It's like, I was doing this 30 years ago. And Matt, you also got to understand like when right now, I'm the only modern day guy out, right, for the mob. There's no other guy out that was running around like I was,

Starting point is 00:36:23 that could give you these stories. You know, everybody always watered. When I was out there, like, pussies. They were watered down. They weren't doing the shit we were doing. So I'm the only guy out here right now. If there was 100-bockers right now,

Starting point is 00:36:33 they couldn't give you none of the stuff I'd give you. They couldn't give you one shooting. You know what I'm saying? Nobody was doing that stuff no more. So I have the perfect storm right now. I could give them the book I gave them is like action, drama, high-ranking people, everything where it's like, we have to move on this.

Starting point is 00:36:49 You know what I mean? That's what people are saying. The producers are saying, like, this guy is giving us everything in this book. And then then some. It's just it's only 20% of my life. You know what I mean? And it's, you know, and it's obviously a real story.

Starting point is 00:37:00 It's based on a real story. FBI could confirm everything. You know what I mean? They investigate it. You know, they know it's all real stories. And a lot of them say, oh, he's undemizing. He was a lot worse than that. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:37:09 So it's like, it's like they're saying we have to operate on this. You know what I mean? And they're talking, okay, so if they're talking about a series, because typically the way series works is like the first, you know, the first season, maybe two seasons kind of follows the structure of a book. But once they've built those characters, then they just kind of go off the That's why I didn't want. I don't want this to become, you know, fast and furious

Starting point is 00:37:31 where guys are jumping off roofs and machine guns. I don't want that. And that's not my plan. You know what I mean? And I don't want it to be overacting where these Italians, some of them are horrible. Like, Gravesend's a horrible show. Like, the acting is just horrendous.

Starting point is 00:37:41 No, it's almost horrendous. Right. They put Shaquille Neil on the show to help it. It's not going to help it. The show is the acting is horrible. So we don't want that. I want real guys. I have the sopranos.

Starting point is 00:37:51 I have legit guys that are coming on to the show that were ex-like, they never cooperate. And they're tough, like real tough guys. Like, everyone knows who they are. One guy's going to be on the show. He's like a legit tough guy known. And he's going to make it look real because he's playing himself. You know, I don't want people that are playing Italians that aren't Italian.

Starting point is 00:38:09 Right. And they look stupid with a lawsuit cigars and sunglasses. That's not like, you know what I mean? We're not doing it like that. We're going to make it look real authentic, make it look like a real show. And the guy who I want to play Ronnie, which I talk to him all time, is the guy from Tulsa Kings. He's my friend, Dominic. The main co-star, Sylvester Stallone's co-star, is my good friend, Dominic.

Starting point is 00:38:31 And I want him to play Ronnie in my TV show. So that's like my buddy. So I talked to him and he says that when the project comes, he would really, like, think about coming to do it. So where this whole thing would be shot in? I would guess New York, New Jersey, stuff like that. But like I said, it's in the works right now. But I have nobody else that I want to play Ronnie but him. Right.

Starting point is 00:38:54 Like I don't care who, I don't care of Bruce Willis exed. I'm just saying, I don't want nobody else but this guy. I know he would play him to the tee. He plays a gangster great, and that's who I want. I keep, like, harping on that. For me, I want the child above. Right. But nobody wants to work with him, so I can't.

Starting point is 00:39:11 Nobody wants to work with him. They told me, people told me, you know, if you bring him on the project, we don't want nothing to do with it. I talk to his people. I talked to, I actually talked to his best friend. I spoke to his best friend. I said, bro, they gave me 10 names of who I want to play me. mean. I said Charlevaugh ten times. Right. You know what I mean? That's why I said 10 times.

Starting point is 00:39:30 And I actually spoke to his people because he wanted to play Paulie Galino and the bad dave boys. The whole bad dev story. I don't know what that is. From Brooklyn, Chris Pichello, all them guys that took over South Beach, the mob guys that are Brooklyn. It's a big book. You look it up. Bat Dab boys is called. He wanted to play a guy called Paulie Galino, Paulie Guns. Right. He was like a nut job like me from Brooklyn. I said, well, he could play another nut job from Queens, and I wanted him to play me and mine. Well, what's the issue with Shiloh LaBuff is that, I mean, I know he's had major problems, like psychological problems.

Starting point is 00:40:04 No, they said he ruins films. I love him. This is what I'm told. I'm like, yo, I bet I'm like literally kept saying. I actually got in touch with his best friend, and I spoke to him. And I said, you tell him, I would love for him. Well, he was just in fury. That wasn't too long ago, right?

Starting point is 00:40:20 That was a movie. Was it the tank movie? Like 10 years ago. 10 years is it a long time And he had had problems prior to that And they put him in that He was great in that He was great actor

Starting point is 00:40:31 But they're just done with him I can't say who I'm working with And I'm not saying whatever I just can't say the name yet Eventually he'll come out But they says that we will not have him on the project They've worked with him before How about that?

Starting point is 00:40:42 Can you imagine having just fucked yourself over so bad Nobody wants to work? To me he's the one of the best actors ever Yeah he really is He yanked his tooth out For fury He joined a gang Really joined a gang

Starting point is 00:40:52 to do a role as a gang member. He was in a gang. You understand what I'm telling you? He's a method actor. He joined a gang. They were saying in Fury, he didn't take a shower for like a month and a half or six weeks or something. They had to take him aside and say, listen, bro, I get what you're doing here, but you've got

Starting point is 00:41:07 to go take a shower. Yeah, I literally picked him every time and they just said that it's not, they're not going to deal with it. What's the short film? And not even saying if he's going to want to do it. I'm just saying that's who I wanted, you know what I mean? Well, you know, what's so funny is when you talk to these guys, people that don't know anything about how the industry works is there always they're always like oh you got to

Starting point is 00:41:28 have this you get you're like no no you don't understand once i sell the life rights and they've paid me i don't really like i'm i'm a consultant but and i can consult and i can give you my opinion but they make that decision because right because they're not going to invest 40 or 60 million dollars in a film that you have say so over yeah and you could ruin the whole thing you know yeah and um like i says when i spoke to his friend i just said because remember I have, there's a voicemail of him leaving on my friend's voicemail saying, I want to play Pauli Galino, I'll put my own money into it. He wanted to play a gangster.

Starting point is 00:42:00 Right. This is bad, you got to look into the bad there boys. It was a really famous crew, Banana family guys. And they were out of Brooklyn in the 90s. And Pauli Glino was killed by the boss of the bananas for putting their hands on the birdman Sparrow. But the whole thing is that Jimmy Calandra talks. I'm sure you heard of Jimmy Calandra. He does the talking.

Starting point is 00:42:16 It was his crew. So he called Jimmy Calandra and says, I want to play this guy. So I was like, wow, he wants to play Pauli Glandra. Galino. I love him. He's a great actor. Let me reach out and see if you want to play a Poli Galino from Queens. Right. I'm the same kind of character. You know what I mean? With a bestselling book. And, you know, they just didn't want to work. Nobody, from what I was told from my people that they're not going to, they don't want to deal with them. So what do you want to do? You were saying you were just in a short film. What was a short film about?

Starting point is 00:42:42 Well, the short film is going to be just about gangsters. You haven't done it yet. No, we're doing it. Yeah. It's just going to be about like, um, like just, uh, I made up, uh, gangster stuff. You know I mean? Like, everyday stuff with, like, a crew. Is there a script? Yeah. Is it an hour, or is it 15 minutes? Hour film.

Starting point is 00:42:58 So we've got an hour. Mm-hmm. And so it's, it's independent? Independent. They're going to try and get it into what, Sunday dance or something? Yeah. You see anything, I hate to sound like cocky and arrogant, but I have a huge fan base. Right.

Starting point is 00:43:09 So anything I do, I know. We just had a 30-minute conversation about this before. Yeah, it's true. I have a huge fan base. And, you know, it's crazy. And I know it sounds sick to people, like, you know, but I have a worldwide fan base. I get fan mail from Japan. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:43:21 I mean, if it's, you know, it sounds arrogant, but it's just the truth. You know, what are you going to say? YouTube is the new TV. I have over 200 million views on it. You know what I'm saying? I have a huge, huge, huge viewing. I mean, when I go on a show, I crush everyone's numbers. It's not because my rank.

Starting point is 00:43:36 It's because of who, how I am, my charisma, the way I talk, the way I act. You know, I'm disrespectful. I say what I want. I'm going, oh, I want to run for mayor. No, I was a street dog. And I'm over here talking my life, you know what I'm saying? So people like the honestness, the honesty. So if I come out with this film, the people are telling me like,

Starting point is 00:43:51 everyone's going to watch it just because you're in it and he's going to come in at my coat my buddy who's a real movie guy right he's going to be in him with me too he was in transformers he was in a ton of shit this guy's in real films he's mark warbrook stunt double this guy's guys and guys best friends are all actors everyone so we're going to be in the film together and um it's going to look good you know we're going to do a little so but i mean so you've got is it they've got a production is it but obviously it's it's being self-funded and self-paid by these guys yeah i mean do you know what the what the basis of the film is so basically I think about, so basically about neighborhood guys, I'm gonna, I basically go away, come home, not liking what I see, like a scenario against the film.

Starting point is 00:44:30 Yeah. New guys are in charge. I'm from an old crew. I don't like it. And then things start to act up, you know what I'm saying? Things start going down, you know? And then what? Then they try and get into a Sundance and some of these other films and hope it takes off.

Starting point is 00:44:45 So it's going to be like real like product, like real filming. It's not going to look like a bee list, you know, it's going to look. look like real good filming and everything and uh brother camera equipment and shit is so it's so he has it all you can no but he has it all he has it has the best stuff so it's uh it's all you can make you can make like like you can buy off the shelf stuff and make it look like like like you're using those the hundred thousand dollar red cameras like it can like the average guy who's got a who's got some experience and has watched about 10 or 15 YouTube videos can make a film that is that rival is just Hollywood films listen I get reached out to every day by film people but a lot of

Starting point is 00:45:20 fake like they're just trying to like talk to me or they just want to use me to get funding and stuff like that so i let my guys talk to him now the guy matt know him because he's a real hollywood guy and i say yo just talk this guy and see if it's legit because he has a movie with this guy and they look into him most of the time it's all like you know yeah yeah they're going bullshit you know i'm saying so i had a few legit guys reach out to me you know i mean but as far as that like matt's the real real deal and you know he's really in hollywood world and he could call tommy from ghosts that's his friend right he's a huge stars he's friends He'll just calls him up, hey, listen to that up.

Starting point is 00:45:52 That's how he has it. So he knows who's real and who's not. This movie with Tyrese, he did movie with, he's in, you know, he's really involved. So with... On July 18th, get excited. This is big! For the summer's biggest adventure. I think I just smurf my pants.

Starting point is 00:46:08 That's a little too excited. Sorry. Smurfs. Only date is July 18th. Tim, I take his word on it. So when the guys reach out to me, I just send it to him, and he tells me who's real and who's not. You know what I mean? So what are you hoping to do?

Starting point is 00:46:21 You're hoping to become an actor? No, I mean, I'm not an actor. But if you want me to play a bad guy, I got no, it's very easy. And everyone knows that. You need me to play a gangster, you play a bad guy. It's not acting. You know what I mean? And everyone knows that.

Starting point is 00:46:32 And that's why people get mad like that worked their whole lives to be actors. I would probably get it over you because I could just be myself. Nobody's going to buy me as being the bag of. You know what I'm saying? Maybe like a white collar bad guy. It's like me trying to play a stockbroke, a fraud guy. They're going to pick you. You're good at that.

Starting point is 00:46:47 You run circles around me. They're not going to ask you to play a gangster, and then I could play. They're going to buy her. Let Gene play. He was living that. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, that's how it's operating right now. And we're hot right now.

Starting point is 00:46:58 This genre, this true crime shit, they love it. Well, there's agents right now in Hollywood that own, that represent real, like real gang members. Yeah. What was the guy from Heat? What's his name? Oh, great. He did time and everything. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:12 He's in a ton of movies. Machete. He's in all those movies. Yeah, yeah. Tutorial. John, I forgot his name. But, yeah. But he always plays him.

Starting point is 00:47:18 Danny something. Yeah, yeah. But he always plays him. Yeah. You know, he's not, he's not playing a love character or something else. Somebody got killed over a movie that he was in. It was a whole big thing. The Mexia Mafia got involved.

Starting point is 00:47:28 When they did that movie, the jail movie, damn, I forgot. It was a whole big, you could look it up. There was a whole big thing over it. They didn't like the way it was betrayed and director. Somebody got killed in the film. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:42 So, you know, a lot of that shit gets, you know, gets crazy. You know what I mean? But like I said, it's true crime genre right now. It's really hot. I keep telling my partner that this is the time we got to do it. It's so hot right now. You know what I mean? I get my name gets Google 30,000 times a month.

Starting point is 00:47:57 All right. That's crazy. How do you find that out? I got to find that. That's crazy. My name is getting Googled like an actor, like more. I need to find that out. Like that's crazy.

Starting point is 00:48:08 My mother laughs at this shit. She's like, I can't believe this shit. Yeah, honestly, this is funny because I always kind of reminisce about this. When things will happen here. And I'll reminisce and I'll think back to myself like six months. Like anybody who watches this channel has heard me say this, like six months prior to getting out of prison, I'm laying in my bunk going, how are you going to make a living? Same thing.

Starting point is 00:48:32 I'm like, I'm like, you're going to end up working. You're going to work at McDonald's. You're going to be renting somebody's. You're going to be living in a spare room. Like, what are you going to do? You just gave me deja vu exactly what I said. And I told my mother, what am I going to do? When I came out, it's hysterical because Johnny Ely like I touched me.

Starting point is 00:48:46 He goes, no, I had no idea what you two. is in Vlad. I didn't know if Vlad TV's like this huge show. I walked out of the hole. I I looked like a ghost. He goes, no, come on this show with me. It's millions of viewers. I'm I don't know what this thing is. All of a sudden, I just took off like a rocket ship. They're like, no, I want you on here. I want you in here. So I just got lucky, Matt. I didn't know what I was going to do. I was so lost like you. I had no idea. I knew only loan shocking, robbing legal sports betting and selling drugs. That's all I knew. Listen, I used to tell people. I told my probation officer this. Yeah. You know how they come see you in the halfway

Starting point is 00:49:17 house. Did you go to halfway house? No. Why not? Straight home. Fuck. So I had to stay seven months in the halfway house, but I also wanted to, by the way, because I had no money. So I got the halfway house when my probation officer came to see me. So a month or two before you get out, they come and see you. So she comes to see me a couple months before I get out and they have you fill out a piece of paper, whatever. And she kind of starts going over the rules with you. And she said, well, you know, last time you were on supervision, and she said, she was, you, she was, you, you stole $1.5 million. Nice.

Starting point is 00:49:48 She goes, she was, but that's not going to happen this time, right? And I went, like that. And she goes, what does mean? I go, man, I said, we'll see. And she goes, what is, what are you? She said, and I said, listen, I said, I'll be honest with you. I said, I'm going to bust my ass for the next year. And I'm going to try and put something together.

Starting point is 00:50:04 I said, but I'll be honest with you. I said, in a year from now, if things aren't going my way, living in someone's spare room, I'm riding the city bus. I said, and I can't pay my bills. I go, I'm going to commit a. massive, massive fraud. And I'm going to leave the United States because that's where I fucked up last time.

Starting point is 00:50:16 Right. And she goes, well, let's hope that doesn't happen. I said, I said, I'm just, you know, and she said, and she also said, she goes, you know, it's funny. She said, I'm not that shocked by that. She said, as you probably think I am. I said, I'm just being honest. It's a nonviolent crime.

Starting point is 00:50:30 You know, and I'll be honest with you, like, I know people get mad at me when I say this. Like, I was locked up with Sam Begman-Fried. That's my buddy. I did time, ma'am. And I beat somebody up with him. I went to the hole from. Right.

Starting point is 00:50:40 I beat up a gangman. We talked about that laugh. I say this on all the shows. He don't deserve life. He don't deserve 30 years. You don't deserve 20 years. You stole money from a bunch of rich people. Okay?

Starting point is 00:50:52 Like, I understand it's wrong, you know what I'm saying? But 30 years, bro, I know guys that shot, listen, I know guys that little Jimmy did not cooperate, shot a man in the back of the head, blew his brains out, premeditated murder, and got 30 years. Right. Bro, there's nothing the same about that. Yeah. I don't go, fuck. He said, oh, you took his money. He's going to kill him.

Starting point is 00:51:10 You don't have to kill yourself all the money, bro. You always had another chance to make money. You took his life. All right, he's gone, never coming back. You don't deserve the same amount of time as a murderer. Because they were going to give him 100 years. He had the worst judge in the, they set him up to die in jail. Six prosecutors, Judge Kaplan, who is the vicious most federal judge in the business.

Starting point is 00:51:29 The only reason why he got 27 years, because the victims wrote in for him and says he don't deserve life. He's going to pay us back. And they still gave him 27 years, which is ridiculous. And I say it all time. Sam Bainton-Frey, you got 27 years? 27 years for stealing money. Bro.

Starting point is 00:51:44 I forgot. I got guys with double murder. They got 25 years. You don't get that for that. Come on, bro. That's ridiculous. Like, even with you, you stole what? How much time you got for the money you stole?

Starting point is 00:51:54 I mean, basically what's still lost? Six million. But what did you get? How much time to give you? Oh, initially? Yeah. Without cooperation, 26 years. That's stupid.

Starting point is 00:52:03 Yeah. You got more time to me. Yeah. I shot dozens of people. I got crazy home invasions. There's horrible crimes. But you would, you're, initially, you would have gotten 40. But don't matter.

Starting point is 00:52:12 You shouldn't even be in that ballpark, bro. You should be getting five years. With the rest of the two, you're not your ass. I understand that. You owe for the rest of your life. You should not be worried about dying in prison for taking money when these motherfuckers are the biggest gangses and they rob everybody, the government. You know what I'm saying? It don't make sense.

Starting point is 00:52:27 You're not killing people. You're not stealing paper. Right. Yeah, no, I mean, you know what I'm saying? That's my concept. And everyone's like, oh, my God, no, no, no, it's the truth. Me and you are not the same. You're a good guy.

Starting point is 00:52:39 You stole some money. I was not a good guy. I was hitting people in the head with bats, stabbing people. It's much different. You want to put me in jail 20 years? I understand that. You don't deserve 20 years. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:49 No, I hear you, I don't think it was a good guy. But I do think that you and I have vastly different crimes. Different lives. Different crimes. Like, you commit a crime. There's a good chance that somebody's never walking the same. You're ruining their life. Would you die?

Starting point is 00:53:01 You stole some money. They'll get it back. Right. I went broke three times and made it back. You know what I thought? I thought mine was excessive. You die. Can you come back three times? I shot you in head. You come back? No, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You don't have nine lives. You have one life. Right. So if we're stealing money, you don't deserve to get that much time and I'll always stand on that. Always. I actually know who this is. Well, it's, I think I asked you about this guy before. You didn't know who he was. His last name was Gambino. Right. And he had it changed. Because it was tortured him because of his last name. Of course he couldn't. He couldn't go. Nobody wants to deal with him. Nobody wants to be around him. Nobody, nobody, he can't get partners to go in with him. He's all terrified. So he changed his name.

Starting point is 00:53:38 But he was, you know what's so funny about that, too? It's like, so in Coleman, like, pretty much everybody knows I cooperated, right? He would sit down with me. That's a max you in? No, no, I was in a, I was at a low. When I met. Coleman has a max. Yeah, they got two pens, a medium, and a low, and a camp.

Starting point is 00:53:56 I was in the medium for three years, and then for nine years, I was in the low. Yeah, because the Coleman max, the Coleman pen, you would have a problem. I would add a problem. 100%. Can you can't walk the guard. I'm nonviolent. Oh, yeah. They're horrible.

Starting point is 00:54:07 And the pens, they're killing people constantly. Yeah. Well, let's be glad that that didn't happen. Yeah. So, but Donnie, Donnie was the funniest motherfucker. And he would come in. He would explain he was doing these like penny stocks. And they were like pumping.

Starting point is 00:54:21 They would do like a pump and dump. And he would tell you this perfectly legal business model. Nothing wrong. I mean, he would argue with you. And you'd be like, your business model is fraud. He was the funniest guy. And he knew that I had cooperated, right? Like he, everybody kind of knew.

Starting point is 00:54:36 You know what I'm saying? Like, he knew. And he was an older, you know, mob guy. He's like, yeah. You know, he, like, he didn't give a fuck. And he didn't really give a shit. He's 70-something years old. He could give a fuck.

Starting point is 00:54:47 His wife would show up there and argue with the guards. I remember his son for Christmas came. His son was like 10, 11 years old. And he asked him what he wanted for Christmas. And he goes, oh, Rolex. He's like, you're 11. Like, what are you doing? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:55:03 Just, just, anyway. He was, he was super funny, but yeah, he had to change his, he changed his thing. Anyway, he got out. He died a couple of years after he got out, which is really, really sad because he was, he was just, it sounds horrible. I'm sure if you lost money with them, you probably don't think this. But he was just such a great guy. Like, yeah, I, like I said, the money crimes to me should not be getting that much time. So I don't think he's a bad guy. You know what I'm saying? The money crimes, they were all doing money crimes. The government does money crimes. Like, please, they're all doing that shit. Like, you know. He also ran. What did he else do you run? Oh, this was before. This was prior. to, well, this was kind of when the internet was just taking off. He had rooms. I'm pretty sure he had like a rooms full of gorgeous chicks doing the whole chat thing. Kind of like what eventually turned into only fans. Yeah. Okay. Before that, you know, it was a webcam girl. Right. So he was doing that. He was, same thing. He's buying an expired medication and shipping it to Dominican Republic. And that doesn't mean it's dangerous. You know, it's expired. They have a certain

Starting point is 00:56:03 shelf life. It's not going to kill you or anything. It's still good. good he was just the money guy man he's just a constant money flowing that's good he had tons he had he was still filthy rich you know 22 years you know that he yeah they could take your asses but he you know the cash you probably has and everything oh yeah he's look his wife if you look at his wife his wife doesn't have a job like she's not going what I think he probably did I think he got out on uh maybe got on the first step back uh he he did at least 15 20 years he said Ronnie might be coming out my guy is he's sick or something like that he's supposed to get his time shaved off he's supposed to come home 2029 they may have to come home now you don't even have to be that sick to be

Starting point is 00:56:38 honest if you just kind of meet check some of the leadership though it's very hard with the leadership when they put that leadership role on you like you were calling shots they usually make you if you did not a lot of guys that was supposed to come home and let them made them die in there if usually when you're like a leader they usually don't um they'll let you die in there yeah well you know look look so it used to be if you got 20 years right like you're doing 85 percent absolutely you know these guys are doing getting 20-year sentences they're getting out in like 14 they just let out you know it's crazy this guy didn't have leadership but this guy killed probably 13 people um patty testa and they said that they let him out he had life sentences they let them out

Starting point is 00:57:15 all right these guys are serial kills they were in roared the mail's crew they were chom people up and they're out right now do they just sentence them or they cooperate no they won their appeal oh the judge no like that appeal they got passionate compassionate compassionate relief yeah yeah but you're an old man now like you're 75 years old you're not i know i know and they killed all bad guys you know what i'm saying but it's just the fact that they legitimately killed like he had 13 convictions and murders 13 murders he had 13 murders right that's just a lot it's a lot that's a lot you know what i mean that's for a judge you say ah you know it's just hard you know and i don't mind it was just like they were all bad guys yeah i know oh sandbag mc free you stole 27 years oh you killed 13 people are you let him out

Starting point is 00:57:56 keep him in he'll i'm thinking he'll He'll peel. He'll catch it something. He's already down on appeal. How about that? San Benin's already down on his appeal. What do you mean? San Bankman is already down on appeal from his sentencing.

Starting point is 00:58:09 Oh. He already came back down. What did he come down to? He already got sentenced and he came back down for an appeal. Right. So did he get resentenced? He's fighting it. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:58:19 The sentencing, he's fighting the sentencing, yeah. Okay. Yeah, they'll make some kind of deal. Same thing with Elizabeth Holmes. Like they were basically going to get it overturn? You got to look up the judge that he has, not going down. He's brutal. Well, it's still.

Starting point is 00:58:30 If it goes to appellate court, then it's not that judge. Stays with the appellate court. Nothing's going down. He's lucky he got 27. Everybody was amazed he got 27 years with this guy. What about, did you see what they said about his co-defendant, the chick that cooperated against him? Which one? The girl, the girl that cooperating, his girlfriend or whatever she was.

Starting point is 00:58:47 She's not. She got probation, I think. Yeah, she got. And the judge said in my, it's just, this is the quote kills me. He goes, he's like, in mine, 20 years, I've never seen this amount of cooperation in my life. And I just thought of my God. That's such bullshit. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:03 Yeah. And then he gave her like three years paper or something. I don't think she got any time at all. It's probably Judge Kaplan. It's probably Judge Kapplin. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's probably the same judge, right? Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Starting point is 00:59:12 Yeah, it's Kaplan. He's vicious. You know, my lawyer says, my lawyer has been in the business 30-something, yes. She's a nice lady. She goes Jean, he's really tricked, like really bad. Yeah, I can't. I had the best judge in the business. I had Judge Block.

Starting point is 00:59:27 Everybody knows him. He's like a famous federal judge. If I didn't have him, I'd be still in jail right now. He's great. He looked out for me. When the government was after me again, he wasn't, he was on my, I had a federal judge on my side. Right. It's unheard of.

Starting point is 00:59:39 They're never on your, he's on my side. He's fighting for me. Right. Everybody's like, so mad. They're asking for five years. He's giving me 90 days. And I'm not cooperating no more. They hate me.

Starting point is 00:59:48 The government's mad at me for the shows. I'm disrespecting probation, which I had two great probation officers. I mean, they loved me. I got along with them so well, but their supervisors hated me. So I had this great guy, Chinese guy Kwok, he was unbelievable and so the other guy named Mike. Awesome guys. They didn't go, fuck about podcasts.

Starting point is 01:00:04 They were stupid. They had no choice. Yeah. They had to violate me because I was just disrespecting probation, they said, and the government didn't like the things I was talking about. So they just kept on, they violated me six times. Holy shit. They tried to put me back in jail five.

Starting point is 01:00:19 They tried to get me five years. And I was a huge, for my time, I did a lot of work for these guys. Right. I helped them. I was like, these motherfuckers, I'm not hurting people. I'm not committing crimes, not shooting people. It's like you're mad because I'm making money of my own life. Well, you understand what they want you to do.

Starting point is 01:00:35 They want you to get out and work at Walmart. They want you to be a greeter at Walmart. They want you to be a cashier. They want you to work in the back room. They don't want you to have nice things. Right. They never want you to be able to. They never want you to be able to.

Starting point is 01:00:46 They hate it when you, and this is, it's sad that I'm saying this. And I would have never, having not been in the system, I would never have believed this just based on the rhetoric that the government puts out there. Yeah. But the truth is, after. watching this for 20-some-odd years, the government, once you've been incarcerated, they want you to get out, they want you to eke out a living your whole life. They do not want you to rebound. They want you to scrimp and the rest of your life.

Starting point is 01:01:14 The only way, I had two good prosecutors. I did Nicole Adjutorie and Lindsay Gerdes. I think she, I believe she's the acting attorney general right now in the building, really big-time prosecutor. I was with her. She was chief of organized crime. I got along with her well. Very strict, though. Lindsey Gertis, great. They wanted me to succeed. They didn't care how I did. But when I got violated, they were gone.

Starting point is 01:01:35 New prosecutors, and they had this hard-ass, Keith Dederman, who was just starting. I worked him a few times, but he was like, superhero. Like, he thought he was on the Avengers. This guy was, like, really bad. Boy Scout. Yeah, so he was after me with the, and the agents are like, we're not organized crime agents no more. You have nobody in that building no more. Right.

Starting point is 01:01:51 But I had Judge Block. Right. And I love saying this. If I didn't have a, I had a federal judge, a senior federal judge on my side. He would fight with them for me. It's unheard of. It would be in gangland newspapers. The judge is taking my side over the government.

Starting point is 01:02:04 They go in your honor. He wrote all the rules. But he's not being his old self. Right. I'm not going to hurt him. He's not shooting. He's not robbing. He's going on podcasts.

Starting point is 01:02:15 We know what's wrong. He's glorifying him. But he's not being gangster gene. It's not illegal. They tried to present, if you've seen the newspaper article, it was this big on page three next to Donald Trump for a probation violation that I'm sterilever I'm taking steroids. Burn a cell phones because I was on phone monetization. I wasn't allowed to have a phone that wasn't monitored by the government.

Starting point is 01:02:35 Wow. So I had a private iPhone. They found out. They put this big article up about me and Judge Block seen right to it. Like, what is this bullshit? You're trying to make them look like, oh, I pulled a gun out on somebody? Fake story. I said, I told my lawyer tell a judge, if Gene Borrello pulled a gun out on somebody and they knew, SWAT team,

Starting point is 01:02:54 SEAL Team 6 would be kicking my door in. That's bullshit. You let me stay out. Like he knew it was just all hype to get me. Their game was to show that he's still the old gene to get him five years. Right. If you can't present that, the judge is not hurting me. And he wouldn't.

Starting point is 01:03:07 He refused to. They put me in three times. I did 20-something months in violation. I was supposed to do years. He wouldn't do it. He wouldn't. He wouldn't hurt me. He didn't want to put me in jail half the time.

Starting point is 01:03:18 But they wouldn't stop, bro, over this podcast shit. Because they feel we started it. Me and Johnny, like, brought all these gangses out. Because before that, I was just me, Mike Francie's and Johnny. And there was no podcast. It was just Mike Francie's talking on interviews. Then me and Johnny came out with the Johnny and Gene Show Mafia podcast, and everybody followed suit.

Starting point is 01:03:35 And they got so mad. It was hurting cases. We were in a newspaper. John Rubio was on the show going, we made more money with the government than the mafia. The judge called him back into court for saying that. Yeah, it was in a newspaper that he said he made more money with the government than the mafia. What are you saying that for, bro?

Starting point is 01:03:53 You know? What happened? Where's A-Lite? Like, what's he doing now? Because I don't think I see him anymore. Yeah, he's the politics stuff he does. You know what I'm saying? So, like, you know, we were doing the shows again, but then, you know, we got broken up.

Starting point is 01:04:05 He's got a podcast? Yeah, he still does his, the same thing, the Johnny Ely. It's still on the same branch of the Johnny Jean show, which is the A-Lite thing. And remember, I had the change when I was on probation because they wanted my name off it. Yeah, yeah. They were being such fucks, man. So it just became the A-Live show, and then we teamed up again. And then we were doing it for a while, but then he left the country.

Starting point is 01:04:24 And then now he's just doing, like, like, shows here. Yeah, if you do it, if you do it, if you start it, you have to be absolutely consistent. Like, you can't, oh, I'm not going to do one this week. No, no, no, no. That's why you spent it. He got shadow banned. Johnny gets a lot of views, but they shadow banned him so bad that his views went to nothing. Yeah, I was going to say, so when you and a Merlino sitting down.

Starting point is 01:04:44 Well, that's, I've heard this before. Yeah, it was talked about. It was brought to my attention. People said it would be a pay-per-view event. Right. It could really, imagine us sitting like this. It would, we'd make millions of dollars. I swear we would.

Starting point is 01:04:56 People would watch that all over because it would probably be a fist fight. Right. It would have to be like sign things where there's going to be security there because we're going to get into a fist fight 100%. The problem is. We have the same personality. Well, yeah, but the problem is you're, you are more charismatic than he is. And that would really not work to his advantage because he's just going to be like, though you folk. He's just going to.

Starting point is 01:05:18 Yeah, but then what I feed off aggression. That's the bad thing. So the more aggressive he gets, the more aggressive I get. So it's just going to be a fist fight. It's all it's going to be. And he's 63 years old, so I won't snuff this because I'll beat him because he's 30-7 years old. So he would be my target. I would wreck him all over the studio.

Starting point is 01:05:34 But I'm saying as far as Jeremy Lena, I wouldn't really hit him because he's like 60-something years old. That's not even fair. But I know it would be a brawl. And he's tiny, by the way. It would be a brawl. I know how he is. His personality, he don't give a fuck. I don't do a fuck.

Starting point is 01:05:45 But it would make a lot of money. I could tell you that much. What is his show doing now? Like, is it, is he doing podcasts? Is he putting stuff on the show? Yeah, but I think they constantly, he talks like me, so you get Shadow Van. You can't say certain things They report you, you're gonna get shout up

Starting point is 01:05:59 They'll take your way your show You gotta edit the living shit out of it You have to, they You'll make no money on YouTube Because of the words that we use The way I talk, I won't make no money With the views Yeah

Starting point is 01:06:09 Well, and the problem is Is that where you can go To put it on there Is it rumble But rumble you get no You make no money on rumble You make some money But you don't make YouTube money

Starting point is 01:06:19 On rumble They would make so much more If they just let it be And my people just say What they want? Who cares? You know what I'm saying? and just let them talk and you make so much money on YouTube.

Starting point is 01:06:28 Forget it. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, I think they're making so much money now. Yeah. You could only spend so much money. Right. Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching the video. Do me a favor.

Starting point is 01:06:37 If you liked it, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this. Also, please leave a comment in the comment section and share the video. We're going to leave all of Gene's social media, which is TikTok, Instagram, in the description box. We're also going to leave the link to Amazon to his book so you can buy his book. And once again, really appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor. Please consider joining my Patreon. It's $10 a month.

Starting point is 01:07:02 It really does help Colby and I make these videos. We put Patreon exclusive content on Patreon so you can check that out. So once again, really appreciate it. See you.

Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Gene Borrello Exposes Joey Merlino, Vlad TV, & Mafia Secrets

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