Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Government Cover-Up EXPOSED: UFO Expert Reveals Alien Secrets

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

James Iandoli shares his first hand experiences with aliens and why the government would withhold this information.James Iandoli - Engaging The Phenomenon links: YouTube: https://youtube.com/@EngagingThePhenomenonTwitter/X: https://twitter.com/EngagingThe?t=ifUL2yDM7-_XdrdtLKIaIw&s=09Podcast: https://anchor.fm/engagingthephenomenonLinkTree: https://linktr.ee/EngagingThePhenomenonFollow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrimeDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

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Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine, and it's good for your eyes too, because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam, eye exams provided by independent optometrists. You know, this whole thing started for me again when I was younger. It's not just like you hear a voice in your head like where there's a question about it. Like you feel it through your entire body, and this is something we can call like a

telepathic lock on. So I heard he can see us. And, you know, as I heard that, I saw this almost what you can call a shadow entity, but it was almost scintillating, like it had a mild glow to it, and it collapsed into an orb. So I get in my car, and within a few hundred feet of me driving, right in the sky, right dead center in the sky, there's just a fireball there. And in my mind, I think, holy shit, that's a UFO. As soon as I think that, it starts to move.

the crash occurs and all of a sudden I'm face to face with like a light being right for whatever reason the first impression that I got when I saw this this entity was that it was not separate from myself I saw the past the present and the future kind of as like one thing and then right after that it flipped into me being above the scene of the accident and I'm like I'm thinking so this is it huh like I'm thinking I'm thinking that I'm dead and i was just told i was totally cool with it like i felt totally at peace just like there wasn't like a regret or care like oh no it was just like totally fine it was like the most blest out thing equanimity um i i just felt perfectly at peace there's a whole other system

of government and bureaucracy that is going on and has been going on for over a hundred years on on this subject that has compartmentalized itself in such a way as to keep it from scrutiny from those people that believe we're living in an open, transparent democracy. When they learn about this, and they learn this is true, and when this is publicly acknowledged officially, is not that other entities exist and they're interacting with us. Yeah, that's kind of like, wow, that's amazing. But they have to come to terms that they've been lied to, right? Their government lied to them intentionally to keep this away from them. So what else? Somebody is fucking watching us.

We're being watched by higher intelligence and what the hell are they thinking we're doing. Hey, this is Matt Cox and I am here with James Iyendoly. And I watched him on a podcast the other day. And he's got a really interesting UFO story and kind of an, I'm going to say alien interaction story, but I could be wrong on the specifics of that. So I'm sure he'll correct me. So check out the video.

I really appreciate it. You know, this whole thing started for me again when I was younger. And, you know, these experiences, I don't want to say like necessarily that they were alien, right? I don't know exactly what they were. But my early experiences happened when I was just a kid. and like literally in my room and, you know, the whole way it started was what is kind of like jarring, right? Because the first instant I noticed anything was I heard a voice like, and it's not just like you hear a voice in your head like where there's a question about it. Like you feel through your entire body and this is something we can call like a telepathic lock on.

So I heard he can see us and, you know, as I heard that, I saw this, like, almost what you can call a shadow entity, but it was, it was almost scintillating, like it had a mild glow to it and, and it collapsed into an orb. And I was absolutely frightened, you know, because I'm maybe five or six years old when this is happening. and I literally just, you know, put the covers over myself and I'm trying to hide. That happened maybe a dozen times when I was younger. So because of and other than that, I had spontaneous what people call out-of-body experiences. And, you know, back then, I didn't associate the two together. They just seemed to be different experiences. In retrospect, now looking back after I've been involved in the research,

for so many years, you know, there, there actually seems to be a connection to all that, like all these experiences. So can I ask a question real quick? So when you're five or six years old, like, was there any, any interaction or contact other than them just saying he can hear, he can see us? I heard. I heard it was, it's, it's really hard to explain. I heard like it almost sounds like gibberish, but you could, it, it interprets through

your body somehow. That's the only I can say it. You mentioned the movie. The knowing, yeah. The knowing, which was a great movie. Whoever, I don't think that whoever made that movie just like made that. They either did really,

really intricate research or they hadn't experienced themselves because that, the way they, that whisper thing happens was exactly. I got chills when I saw that movie. And that's the same kind of thing, right? Like we hear UFO and we think aliens, but even in that movie, the way it was represented, you know, they had a kind of religious underpinning to it where there were kind of like angelic entities, but in some regards, that's actually closer to the truth. Not to say that there aren't what people call extraterrestrial biological entities, meaning like, oh, these kind of like gray figures and the typical beings that you see with the big heads and the big eyes like that.

I think, you know, I had not ever seen that directly, but based on all the testimony and the reports out there, I do think that is something that's genuine. I, you know, I don't want to go too far off onto a tangent, but some people speculate that that's like an advanced organic AI, basically. And those entities are like, you know, created or generated to fulfill like missions or whatever you want to call it. so um but an entity like that i had not ever seen um these entities look more like again um you know shadow beings or light beings whatever people want to call them and again orb phenomenon is something that's really apparent um that's only being reported on more frequently now it's it's been reported on it's been discussed but um it's really a intricate part of the UFO phenomenon but again going going back back then i didn't necessarily uh associate that with the ufo phenomenon because i i would

have experiences like that and then again spontaneous out-of-body experiences where i'm just like laying down and and about to go to bed and it feels like i'm sleeping or and and all of a sudden like i i'm looking down at myself and i'm like floating out and and as soon as you you realize like holy shit that's that's me that's my my myself my body whatever you snap right back in and and you and kind of wake up uh that's how that happened for me at least but it wasn't until uh you know many years later i guess um when i was 20 years old in 2007 when i had a series of um UFO encounters that really uh you know you know pushed me into this kind of like no going back um because you know the early experiences led me to do uh you know

inquiry and research so even from a young age i was reading books on UFOs and and metaphysics and you know at 18 i started doing meditation kind of um partially because of martial arts but more so um you know because i was like looking in the in the bookstore and i found books on meditation stuff like that too so i'd been meditating for two years by 2007 and um the the 2007 wave of events for me that really, you know, thrust me into this world for keeps and, you know, kind of made it a mission for me to be involved, if I can say it that way. It started off really weird. And in a series of events that we would call like synchronicities and high strangeness.

And the reason that this is important is because Dr. J. Allen Heineck, who was the official astronomer for the U.S. Air Force for Project Blue Book found that the most genuine UFO close encounters that occurred had something what he called high strangeness. And it was, you know, high strangeness is basically a, a type of phenomenon or a series and events that are just so, you know, so extreme or outlandish that there's, there's no other way to categorize other than high strangeness, but this association with high strangeness in close encounters was so strong that he made this term to, you know, denote that this is something that happened in a lot of close encounters. And, you know, along with Dr. Jalen

Heineck was, you know, Jacques Belay, who's an important researcher. So, you know, these events I would consider high strangeness. And it started, you know, there's kind of three events that really marked this for me that pushed me into this and the first one you know i'm working an overnight shift and you know one of my co-workers in the morning before i left the shift who's super kind of conservative guy you know we talk about like family and and you know work co-worker kind of talk right and at nowhere he said to me hey did you hear about the UFOs in Mexico and you know I found it really weird that he would

even bring the subject up you know because at that point I you know I had the earlier experiences but I had an interest so for him to say that I'm kind of thinking like what you know where is this coming from but I brushed it off I figured it's just a coincidence right so I go home I drive home and I go to sleep and I work an overnight shift So this, you know, by the time I go to sleep, it's like maybe 8.30 in the morning or so.

And in my dream, when I go to sleep, I have this insane, kind of like a, you can call it a UFO dream, right? And in the dream, I'm driving down in my old neighborhood. And there's just this like an orange plasma UFO right over my car. And it's a dream, but I'm like freaking. out, you know, like it's pulsing with electricity and stuff and I can hear like the energetic charge and I can feel the sensations in my body. And it's and I'm, I'm freaking out in the dream. I'm just like not thinking. I'm just like I need to get the hell away from this thing. And I'm trying to drive away. And this is going on for a suburb. I mean, is this some. Yes, yes, a suburb.

Like anybody could walk out of their house and see this thing. Like to thought. Yeah, but this is, remember, this is a dream. This is this right now. is a dream oh okay sorry yeah yeah well yeah so yeah because i know that at some point you get in your car what yeah that's this is this is what follows this is the crazy this is what's so crazy about it right is that you know so i i know i'll round that out for you so it's a dream and i'm like driving i'm trying to get away and i snap out of the dream and by the time i wake up it's maybe like 3.30 in the afternoon, and it's either late spring or early summer. And somebody, you know, one of my family members walks on my house, and the first thing

they say to me is, hey, did you hear about the UFOs in Mexico? So I'm like, you know, and this is the high strangeness thing, right? Right. So I'm like, screw that, you know, screw this. And, you know, the reason I say high strangeness, because there's, there's no, I mean, there's no way in hell that you're going to have that series of events take place as a coincidence, right? um you know and i've spoken to different researchers about it and you know i don't know whether

that dream was something that the UFO phenomenon basically placed into me right like did they make me have the dream or was it some kind of precognitive event uh and i don't know the yeah i don't know you know and so when because when i you know the family member said that to me and i'm like okay screw this i need to just go and there's a chinese place down the street for me that I used to always go to. So I'm like, I'm going to go get some Chinese food and just like relax, you know, because this is kind of bullshit right now. Um, so I get in my car. And it's again, it's 3.30 in the afternoon. Maybe it's broad daylight. And I start driving. And within a few hundred feet of me driving, I, you know, I'm looking, you know, ahead of me, right? And right in the sky,

right dead center in the sky, there's just a fire. ball there and in my mind i think holy shit that's a UFO uh and as soon as i think that because it was it was stationary as soon as i think that it starts to move and i like i'm freaking out at this point right and it's it's like the the the fireball in the sky is like amazing right but what what really did it for me the whole what really hit me so hard was that the series of events that led to it because the whole thing is like this whole ongoing event at this point it wasn't just i'm driving and i see this fireball i had somebody who oddly out of character said something to me about a UFO in the morning um UFOs in Mexico i had this crazy dream and then as soon as i wake up

this family member says something to me the same thing that this guy said this UFOs in Mexico and then and and then i have this daytime sighting of a fireball so the whole thing is what but really hit me like a ton of bricks. I think almost the whole series of events that that led to it occurring was almost more insane than having the daytime sighting itself. You know, it's like, how do you weigh that out? So I was, you know, I tried to chase the fireball, you know, it was moving. It was kind of just moving across sky, gliding across silently. And I, you know, it eventually got out of my sight.

I wasn't able to keep up with it. it didn't like zoom off or doing anything fantastic but again it's just a fireball maybe the size of a dime or a little smaller floating through the sky i mean it looked you know at arm's length that looked that big um i don't know how how far away it was necessarily maybe a few thousand feet uh but it was still incredible and you know after that event i was really um you know it was an it was an impactful event. So I, at that point, I was even more kind of, you know, driven and excited to look into UFOs as a more, you know, as a really kind of serious thing.

Because at this point, I guess you can say I'm being interacted with, right? I didn't ask for this to happen. The earlier ones either. And again, like I said, the earlier ones, even at this point, I recall those experiences, but I'm not necessarily tying it to UFOs at that point. So, you know, skip ahead maybe two to three months. You know, I don't know the exact time frame, but it was it was about two to three months. I ended up having this, this crazy, you know, it's not an NDE because I didn't, I didn't nearly die.

but it's something I call a trauma-induced out-of-body experience. So I got into this car accident and during, you know, when the accident happened, all of a sudden that, you know, I'm driving and the next thing I know, the accident happens.

And I'm like face to face, you know, with this, like a light being. right like an entity of light and how did the how did the accident happen and like when what when was it and how did it happen because these are so i was listening to your interview when i was actually uh painting so i that's why i think i feel like i i must have walked out of the room or something that's why i felt like i thought you had come home from work gone to sleep couldn't sleep went to leave or went to drive around to go to sleep and that's when you had the accident. But I guess I missed something. But so what I'm wondering now is when you had the

accident, was it in the middle of the night? Were you in a middle of the subdivision? This, this was actually in the daytime. This is because my work schedule is insane. I'm working overnights. And I think at that point, I'm working like seven days a week. And so I fell asleep when I was driving, basically. Oh, okay. Okay. And this was in daylight. This was, but it was similar yeah i was it was in the morning kind of like not quite not quite noon um but i fell asleep when i was driving and you know i didn't realize until afterwards that my car ended up going upside down and and basically into a building is this is this and this is in the middle of a uh like a populated area it's like a suburb yeah okay so the and the crazy thing is that this

happened and i didn't realize this really i didn't really think about this until years later But this happened exactly, like, to the T, exactly where I saw the fireball, sighting craft, whatever you want to call it. And again, for whatever reason, I didn't put two to two together, but literally to the T the exact same location. So, you know, again, when the crash occurs, I guess I have maybe you can say I have a lapse in consciousness, right? I don't know, but the crash occurs and all of a sudden I'm face to face with. It's just like a light being, right? And for whatever reason, the first impression that I got when I saw this entity was that it was not separate from myself. And again, that's an impression.

That's the feeling I had like a knowing of that. And I heard this entire like crystalline orchestra. It's like, you know, I guess, like, like, you know, I guess, like, like. Like, if you imagine being in heaven or something and hearing that, like, kind of angelic music, that's, that's what it felt like, right? And, and I'm not, mind you, I'm not, like, religious in a sense. Like, you can say I'm spiritual because I'm doing meditation and I'm into those kind of subjects, metaphysics or whatever, but not religious. And I heard, you know, a voice say, you know, God is all there is, ever was and ever will be. and um you know i for whatever whatever that means and all of a sudden it flip i you know

flipped into i guess like a different uh thing right where i saw you know i can try to describe this as much as i want and never comes out exactly how i perceived it i guess is that i saw the past the present in the future kind of as like one thing and then right after that it flipped into me being above the scene of the accident and I'm looking down at the accident and I can see my car. I see an ambulance. I see the building. I see the street. I see the whole thing. And what's crazy is that my point of view of where I'm looking down was exactly where the fireball was when I had seen it. And again, that's not something I didn't I didn't put two and two together. Like that's not something that automatically hit me. I didn't realize that for for years

after until I was telling um a researcher uh doctor one of the stories years later um so that that event like was was extremely profound for me because you know even though it wasn't like a true near death experience i i felt like i had you know escaped the clause of death basically i was like wow like I could have died if I did you know if I somehow had hit my head the wrong way or whatever so I after that occurred uh you know I was just like so grateful even just to be alive at that point and you know add onto it the the experience right um that I had was um you know I guess transformed of in a way, because when you have snap back into, like, you know, you're, you're looking down yourself. Did you suddenly you're back in the vehicle? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I, when I wake up,

I'm in like the ambulance, basically. And I'm like, holy shit, I'm alive. But even when I was looking down at the accident, one of the craziest thing was like, I was conscious, right? Like in my awareness. I might not have been in my body, but I was aware. And it's not like I wasn't being like, pulled through the experience where like I wasn't conscious of what's going on because I'm looking down at the accident and I'm like I'm thinking so this is it huh like I'm thinking that I'm dead and I was just totally I was totally cool with it like I felt totally at peace just like there wasn't like a regret or care like oh no it was just like totally fine it was like the most blest out thing equanimity um I just felt perfectly at peace. Right. And then I snapped into my body and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, holy shit, I'm alive.

And I'm in the ambulance. So, you know, the next day, you know, because I wanted to do MRIs and scans and whatever, make sure I didn't have like internal bleeding and all that. So the next day I get home and I'm just like super grateful to be alive, right? And I'm still like, I feel different physically, right? Like, I hate to use words like this because it's going to rub people the wrong way, but like energetically, right? I literally feel different, like a different frequency in my body, if you can say that, right? But I'm just super grateful to be alive and I'm like just cleaning my room, whatever.

And this ends up being the next day and night and how this whole chain of events occurs. And as I'm just in my room or whatever, I hear, like, I don't even, it's not even just like I hear a voice. Just like when I was a kid, I hear a voice, but I can feel it through my entire body. And it says, come outside. But the crazy thing about that is people call it a download, right? Or again, we can say it's a telepathic lock on. Because as soon as I hear the voice, it's not just, I. that I hear or I feel the voice.

I got like this whole, like a package of like information, if you want to call it that. But what I mean by that is there's like all these sensations. I get like this kundalini experience through my body. And I see these two entities. Again, this is in my mind that I see it. Like, right, my eyes are open and I can even see everything around. me like normal but there's like an overlay um of these two entities and you know i hate to say

this because it's it's in the ufo literature and it sounds hokey or whatever but i you know i saw uh you know a male and a female and these kind of like almost grayish blue space suits you know blonde hair blue eyes what people call nordics or tall whites or whatever i i saw them and um and i heard that but i also got these kind of I guess you can say messages that they're related to us and they want people to know that they're here and all this, you know, and I have to, you know, kind of preface this by saying, I don't know if, I don't know if that's true, right? Um, if, if they're related to us and they're here to help us or I don't know if my mind

made that up to try to cope with whatever was going on. I don't know if they actually literally communicated that. And I don't know if they actually actually literally communicated that and that means it's true, right? It could still be a deception of some kind or, you know, in my own sense, it felt as genuine as ever. And while this is going on, I'm not even questioning it. I'm taking it literally. So again, it said come outside, right? And as soon as I heard that, I just instantly like there's no second thinking and I just ran outside.

and I get out I get out the door and I get there's like tree coverage over there over when you walk out the door so I get past that and I look up and I you know even before I'm looking up I hear this this hum of this you know what I end up seeing is like a a craft that's almost like a hexagon and it's like boom boom boom and I can feel the pulsing when it's when it's making that noise and I have this again this almost like a kundalini experience of energy and electricity throughout my entire body and it felt like my awareness was connected to their awareness if i can say that and like i was feeling that their state the state of being that there and i could feel uh and it was the super elating uh like i felt you know super blissful i guess if you if i can say that and again it's this this craft is must be like a hundred feet in the air and it's shaped like like a hexagon almost like a like a dark metal if I can say that it wasn't it wasn't black like black matte black out but it was like a very very dark gray and almost seamless and there were like there was a perfectly square white light fixture in the center and around it there were just lights going around like this like you know yellow blue purple red green the whole thing and I'm kind of it's above me kind of just gliding across and I'm trying to I'm going down into my driveway. I get down to my driveway and I'm watching it for a few seconds and then instantaneously, you know, while I'm looking at it, it, you know, you can say dematerializes, it disappears and it reappears about a thousand feet away or 1,500 feet away over this manmade lake that's there.

and it just reappears there and it's just you know slowly moving and it's got the lights moving around it and once my once i'm looking at it over there my focus is over there i can see that there are two other um crafts just like that and you know about the same distance away and they're all kind of moving around slowly in the sky and at this point i'm i'm really thinking like am i am i hallucinating at this point like did i hit my head so hard in that accent that I'm just imagining this because this is over the top this is over the top now and I'm kind of freaking out so I ran into my house and you know two of my family members there and I said guys they're here I said you got to come outside there's and they say why I say they're here and they

said who's here I said just come outside so my two family members come outside and they they see these crafts just moving around with the you know the light spinning around and everything and this is going on you know they're just like you know their jaws drop basically they're they're witnessing the same thing and they don't know what to make of it and uh you know so after maybe like 20 minutes or so of watching this and while i'm watching this like i'm thinking in my head that the whole world knows that this is going on i'm like because this is it's a suburb area right so i'm thinking that everybody is seeing this like there's no question to my mind and I'm thinking like the whole world's

going to know about um you know you know UFOs and at that point what I was thinking were extra terrestrials but you know in retrospect now after a lot of research and thinking I don't I don't necessarily think that stop you know how fast you were going I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie the naked gun Liam Nissan buy your tickets now and get a free chili dog chili dog not included the naked god tickets on sale now august first it's as simple and straightforward as that but i'm thinking that the next day that this is going to be like the whole world's going to know that you know these beings are here and and everything um but uh you know the whole way that this this event ended was by you know i you know i hadn't paid attention to where the third one was but

there's the there's two of them two of these crafts left and the lights are spinning and everything and they're they're going towards each other like this and as soon as i'm thinking like they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna freaking crash right they're gonna as soon as they made contact like this they just both vanished and the sky was empty and quiet and uh you know and that was that was the end of it right and i'm just uh i was amazed because i'm i'm still trying to take the whole thing in, you know, when it ended. When I ended, I'm like, holy shit. Like what, what just happened? You know, why did this happen? And, and, you know, that's what led me on the journey of creating engaging the phenomenon, you know, which is my YouTube and podcast.

I mean, I made, this happened, this all happened to 2007. But, you know, years later of research and being actively involved in the UFO research community and speaking to different researchers is what led me to create engaging the phenomenon. But I got the impression from this contact, these series of contact experiences that people, you know, the entities themselves, again, they communicated whether it was literally

or is a deception or whether my mind, some somehow tried to create a reason for it to happen or something is that I got the impression that, you know, that the intelligence wanted people to know that they were here. And, and again, you know, they said they were related to us. I don't know if that's true. But I, I, you know, wanted people to know that this was all real because now I had these experiences and I know for a fact that this is something that's genuine. So I felt compelled to get involved in the research community publicly at that point and to share information.

But I also realize that I can't like I can't just tell somebody about this experience, right? Like I can tell somebody, but it's not going to have the impact. You know, you're not it's not you're not going to have that switch go off in your head unless you have this kind of experience right like even if um you're convinced UFOs are real you know having a direct experience like that is going to is going to just it's going to change you right it's going to it's going to transform your worldview the way you see yourself the way you look at the universe because all you know all of a sudden within a few moments you now have to reconsider everything that you thought you knew was true and you're like holy shit if this if this is true

You know, what, what else did I get? What else is true that, that I'm not quite sure about, right? So it has that kind of like paradigm shift and it opens your awareness up to so many other possibilities at that point. Well, isn't this? It's also like the first time. That was the first time that you actually, you know, you, you know it's not in your head. Like your family members came out and saw it. So it's like, okay, this isn't just me.

Yeah. I actually have someone that, so you guys are seeing. this yes okay good physical I know it's not me yeah it's a physical crafts like right you know um and like I mean the fireball convinced me right but this again this was just on another level um for several different reasons again because I had the telepathic lock on thing but again I had witnesses my family come out and see this and it wasn't just like with the fireball was like a minute kind of looking at it and it's out of my way this is going on 20 minutes and I'm you know and we're a physical

craft with the hum and everything um so at that point i started really active like very seriously dedicating myself almost like a life mission to research and and and trying to share information and um it was at that point that i found c e5 or close encounters of the fifth kind um which you know for people to understand you know there's a close encounter scale um you know close encounters of the first, second, and third kind, which were created by Dr. J. Allen Heineck as a way to categorize and classify close encounters when he was part of Project Blue Book. So, you know, a close encounter of the first kind is seeing a craft, you know, within 500 feet, it says, but really a close encounter of the first kinds, like you see a craft close enough to determine

it's an actual UFO basically right a close encounter the second kind is that a UFO leave some kind of trace right whether it's uh you know uh like a a radiation trace it's tracked on radar it's it's recorded on video or picture somehow you know there's some kind of trace that you can attribute to the UFO um and then the closer encounter of the third kind is if you have like a if you see an entity right if you see an occupant of a UFO like in the movie close encounters of the third kind that was done by stephen spillberg that you know that's close encounter the third kind a close encounter of the fourth kind which which dr jalen heinick did not create somebody added to the scale is when somebody has an on board experience or an abduction

experience and then uh dr stephen greer created the term for close encounter of the fifth kind And there are different levels to it, but, you know, more commonly, it's known as a human initiated contact where you intentionally go out to do a, you know, to have an encounter, you invite the encounter to happen and one occurs. And there's two, there's two degrees of that, I say, because if somebody is just watching a, you know, they're out, whatever, and they're looking at the sky or, or whatever. whatever it is, and they see a UFO, and it's just moving along, they just randomly see a UFO, and they think to it, like, or like, oh, my God, I wish it would come closer. And all of a sudden, the UFO stops and starts to come closer. It seems that there's some kind of telepathic connection or mental connection, whatever. That's the CE5 of the second degree, you know, according to Dr. Stephen Greer's category.

but a close encounter of the of the fifth kind first degree is when you go out and you do what's called the CE5 protocols or you know you go out and you intentionally invite a UFO encounter and one appears that's a close encounter of the fifth kind first degree that's when people say CE5 that's more most generally what they're talking about and Dr. Stephen Greer created protocols to to have that kind of encounter um but I want to preface that a little by saying, you know, I found Dr. Stephen Greer because I'm crazy doing research at this point, like all, you know, all my free time I'm doing, I'm doing like research and meditation, basically. And I see this press conference on YouTube and it's this random doctor, right, and a bunch of military witnesses talking, you know, in Washington, D.C. at the National Press Club. about their firsthand encounter while serving in the government with UFOs or UFO related information or the UFO cover-up.

So I bet there's about 12 witnesses, and they're all sharing their testimony, highly credible people with credentials that could be vetted, you know, sharing their testimony in Washington, D.C. about their firsthand knowledge of UFOs and UFO cover-up. And, you know, what was weird to me is just like the whole thing that was hosted by this this is a kind of random doctor. There's all this military people, and I'm thinking, who the hell is this doctor,

right? Why do you have a random doctor hosting this event with all these military people? Like, why is it not like a colon or general or something like that? So I'm like, who is this guy? And I start looking into all his work.

And that's when I found CE5. Because I found a video where he's talking about contact. And what struck me when I'm watching his video is that the way he's describing contact, and how it occurs was exactly how I had experienced it. And there are just like small, subtle details that he's explaining that you couldn't just make up, right? The only way you could know some of those intricate details were if you experienced

it from yourself, you know. So that's what struck me of that. What he's talking about is authentic. So I'm like, okay, I started researching all his work. I read his books. And, you know, he has guided, guided practices. for what he calls the CE5 protocols. And, you know, just to clarify, too,

there are other groups who did similar things in earlier years, but this is what I came across first. And so I started doing the CE5 protocols, and I got responses, right? It was working. It wasn't like the experiences that I had when it was just kind of like they spontaneously happened, to me it wasn't on that level of um you know impact i guess you want to say or wasn't as

crazy or dramatic but sure enough you if you go out you do the protocols which um you know to do a quick overview of the this what's known as the c5 c5 protocols is you basically do some kind of meditation where you're going to get in a calm and tranquil state and then you used what you use what's called remote viewing you know which you know if anybody's interested in remote viewing look up the CIA's program Project Stargate and how the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. military both studied and utilized remote viewing, which is basically being able to use your consciousness to see a distant time or space, right? And the government was using this to gain intelligence, and they got some pretty serious hits when they did it, like, meaning they were

able to acquire certain information that could have not otherwise been known. And that project went on for 22 years. But anyways, so you're doing meditation and you do what people, you know, you can call remote viewing. If you don't believe you can remote view, you can do like a kind of visualization of, you know, seeing some kind of UFO or an ET craft as Dr. Greer would say in deep space. or around the earth or wherever and you're using kind of like a visual a visualization or remote viewing vector to draw them back to your location like in a seamless sequence and that's what he calls coherent thought sequencing which is part of the C5 protocol and you know sure enough if you practice anything enough you're going to get good at it and it becomes more automatic you don't have to

sit there and intentionally you know it becomes less mechanical um so when you you get pretty good at the process eventually over time and you know again you do it enough times you're it's like you know throwing a rock at a target a thousand times eventually you're going to hit the bull's eye so i was doing i was doing this on you know a very regular basis probably more than i should have because i was so impacted by the other encounters and i was also thinking like why didn't i think of that, right? Like, it's so, like, if I was having these encounters and having this kind of direct mental or telepathic connection, like, why wouldn't I think to do that, right? So, sure enough, I got pretty good at it, and I was able to have regular responses, right?

Which could vary in all different types of ways. Some could be more dramatic or some can just see, you see a light in the sky that will stop and then move in another direct. and you know or flashes of lights or you know a more kind of extreme but elusive cases if you have like an orb come down into your yard or the location you're at and for people who want to see like a small example of this there was just a history channel episode of beyond skinwalker where they go over the crisp blood showcase and that's a case that has been investigated by NASA and the CIA and the DOD and they were. highly interested in his case and he had it's so because of that it's been documented fairly well where you have somebody from CIA on property or somebody from the army intelligence on property and even they're baffled by some of the anomalies that are going on right and you know so the so the people understand you know uh UFO encounters or you know encounters with now what they call it uap unidentified anomalies

phenomena. It's not always like the movies. So you can be having different anomalous phenomena occur. And it's not like what you see in a movie, right? It's going to be stranger than that and more bizarre and harder to define, right? That's what makes it anomalous. And a lot of people in the older UFO research field have a hard time coming to grips with that because they want to be seen as credible and scientific. So if you're not talking about a metal ship in the sky, they kind of get a little hesitant to discuss it, even if they know that's the core of the work and the research and what's being reported. And, you know, nowadays, it's more accepted in the research community because it's been investigated by the Department of Defense and a program that was called OSAP and which it later became ATIP, which is what came out in the 2017 New York Times story. And it came out that, you know, Robert Bigelow was contracted and created this government program with the DOD and the DIA with all these really, really top level scientists like Kohn Kelleher, Dr. Ark Davis, Dr. Hal Putoff.

And, you know, Dr. Howe putoff was involved with that Project Stargate remote viewing program and Dr. Kit Green and Jacques Valet and all these other really highly regarded scientists. the remote i remember seeing something on the remote viewing back in the late 80s early 90s when during the cold war probably in the height of the cold war where they were having people that were that supposedly could do remote viewing and they were trying to have them place themselves in Soviet military facilities right like it started at military absolutely were military applications and you know where they wanted them can you go into this building can you you and they would come back and say that they'd looked in

this room or that room or tried to go into a file cabinet but couldn't do it or it was interesting because what was interesting was they would be able to describe buildings. Yeah. And the inside, the outside, where they were, when there was no way these people

would know where these buildings were. Right. Right. And what they looked like or anything. And there's an incident with a classified Soviet submarine where it should, there's no way it should have been there. And, and, you know, these guys were able to track that. And it was accurate intelligence.

And when they're given the remote viewing of the coordinates, they're not telling him what to look for. Right. And the coordinates are not a longitude latitude. It's just a number that represents a target. And so they didn't even, the viewer that got the hit didn't even know what the intelligence community was looking for. And sure enough, he got this insane, insanely accurate hit, which was,

actionable intelligence they could now take this intelligent and act on it strategically right they didn't have the program for 20 years because it didn't work right or they may not have been right right you know it may not have been perfect but if they could use it operationally that's why the program continued and i'm going to argue uh that it still continued to this day and it's just been stovepiped and hidden away and compartmentalize and moved basically right i was going to say well Listen, if the Department of, you know, if the Department of Defense can consistently lose hundreds of billions of dollars, then they can be running other programs without anybody knowing, you know, off the books that nobody's in charge of. Right. Well, and that's how, that's how the UFO programs have been kept, what's called unacknowledged special access programs or waived special access programs or controlled access programs. And, you know, the, you know, the big issue with the secrecy is how is the secrecy been kept?

And it's, it's because people in charge haven't been in the loop, right? Congress and the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate, they haven't been kept up to date on this. They're blocked out of the programs. And that's why now, now we're seeing the public reaction from all this. You know, the other thing I was thinking about when you were talking was the descriptions. Like you're saying that when people are describing these events and, you know, they're, you know, whatever operation, you know, Blue Book or, you know, whatever, whatever the people that are going out kind of collecting this information to do these investigations are kind of blowing off anybody that doesn't specifically state it was a craft. It was clearly a craft. But the problem is is that, you know, they're looking at a, like you said, a very tangible, you know, this must be a craft. This must be like a ship. This must be. But the truth. is because that's what that's just how they're conceptualizing this is the only thing it could be but the problem is if you could communicate with an ape what's happening and ask an ape how to

describe what's happening in the zoo or in the jungle or with humans or they would never be able to describe it they would describe it in a very rudimentary way to the best of their abilities because the truth is they don't really understand what that vehicle is they don't know what a bus is, what a plane is. They don't know where this food is coming from. They don't know what these things are. They would have to describe it in the limited, you know, with their limited capabilities. So they're going to get a very, very rudimentary explanation of what's happening. So for us to sit here and try and conceptualize what we're seeing, like, you know, we have a limited vocabulary, a limited understanding. And we're seeing things. And, you know,

it's like you said like you don't really know what you're seeing you don't really just like what what i like is that you're like you know i'm not even saying that i necessarily even know are these really people that are beings from another dimension that are telling the truth are they really aliens are they really like i don't know here's what happened here's what i saw who knows did did you ever see that movie um uh they they i'm not sure i'm going to send you that listen it's is it they or they live is it they live yeah i think there's the older one they live with roddy piper yes yes oh yeah a bee movie i love it i yeah what i loved was that it was everywhere they were all around us yes you just didn't know

You know, they're supposed to be making a follow-up Netflix series or something to that. Oh, man. How great would that be? Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. You know, that was, that was a great, that was a great, because when he puts on those glasses and you realize like, oh, wow, we're, we're just like, we're like. Clueless.

Disney world. And we have for, for these beings. Well, I'm glad you brought that up for several accounts is. Number one is like, you. Yeah, like we see a UFO and we think we think we're so smart and we know what it is, right? And like just as an example, right? So crash retrievals are a big subject now. David Grush, who is a highly credible former intelligence officer, has come forward.

You know, he put an official intelligence community inspector general complaint about how this issue is being mishandled and illegally hidden from Congress. oversight about crash retrievals. And that happened in the UFO or UAP hearing that happened a few weeks ago in Congress by the oversight committee. But let's just say all that's true, right? Let's say that we, you know, Roswell is real and there's a few other incidents that occurred that are real. And we have these craft and we even have bodies.

That doesn't mean we know where they're from. That does not mean we know where they're from or even what they are. Right. Or you could even conceptualize where they're from or what dimension or what plan. Right. If something was from another dimension, how would we even know, right? Right. I was going to say my argument is always because I have a friend that, you know, I don't want to say he's a, he's, you know, an enthusiast.

But the problem with him is that he believes in every conspiracy that has ever been like, I mean, from Bigfoot to the Lochness monster to JFK to, I mean, you name. a conspiracy he believes them all so but one of the things i always argue with him about is you know is that you know why would they be here like what do we have that they don't need there's nothing like if you could travel billions of light years or be an interdimensional species there's nothing we offer well yeah and so there's this there's really great thinking on that right like number one is who says they're not from here, right? Right.

Because as far, and Jacques Valet wrote a book called Passport to Magonia. And there's been good, there's a book called the Crypto Terrestrial by Mactonis for people who are interested in looking at these kind of ideas is that, you know, number one, let's just say they're from another dimension, but they coexist in the same space, right? Like they're from Earth. They're just shifted in a slightly different frequency or dimension. and you know and either intentionally or unintentionally they're they're coming in and out somehow right maybe their technology is just so advanced they can interface with our dimension or frequency and maybe there's certain spots on the earth where the that wall between dimensions is thinner like what people argue for like skin walker ranch and mount shaston and those kind of you know Catalina island and these other areas where there's high activity right or you know there's you know, Dr. Hal Putoff, who was, you know, you know, helping with that remote viewing program, wrote a paper called the ultra terrestrials, which is a hypothesis for, you know, maybe the origin of the UFO intelligence, what some of the possibilities are. And, you know, Maktani's cryptotterrestrials are saying, actually, you know, they, they could have been here the whole time. And they're just making us think that they're from space. So we're looking out there. And really, the whole time. And

time, you know, they have been coexisting with us for thousands of years in some kind of hidden way, whether they're using technology to mask themselves or they're living in the oceans because there's way, it's, you know, Richard Dolan's coming out with a book called the USOs, right? But all these Navy encounters are by the water, right? Yeah, there's way more surface or coverage underneath the ocean than there is. We know less about, about the ocean than space, you know? Right, right. And so if they have, if they are so advanced in technology and they're able to somehow hide in the water,

or maybe they, maybe they're a civilization that came here thousands of years ago that just have an outpost. Did you see the movie, The Abyss? I did not. My friend keeps telling me to watch it. I got to get around to it. Yeah, it just comes out of nowhere. When you see the whole movie and at the end, it's like, wow, like it, like this is not. didn't see it coming yeah um so it it just turns out that they're you know the ocean bed

is just that's where they're living there's massive massive cities yeah down there that we just don't have any idea and the only reason they even make contact is because we're kind of exploring the abyss yeah and they're like yeah we better go ahead okay we better go ahead and and you know i didn't i didn't read the book yet but there's something called chains of the and apparently it's kind of tied to that kind of idea. And, you know, one of the people who put that forward as a, you know, a theoretical was Lou Elizondo, right? And that's the intelligence officer that counterintelligence officer that came out and, you know, spoke to the New York Times and disclosed the program, ATIP, you know, advanced aerospace threat identification program. So it's not just like UFO researchers are speculating.

There's also people that are in the intelligence community that are also proposing some of these kind of ideas. You know, when you said like kind of that they're, well, I was thinking about interstellar. So I guess you didn't say this. I was thinking about interstellar. Did you see that? You saw interstellar, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That was great. But what was great is that it was like, this isn't an alien speech. This is just us. Right. You know, communicating. These are what, fourth, fifth dimension. us in the future

living in different dimensions. And then I was actually talking to my buddy the other day because I watched a program on Mars. And I'm always watching stuff. I was playing stuff in the background. And just while I was listening to it, they were talking about how in the future, they said once we're an interplanetary species

and humans are being born on Mars, they said we'll become a two species race. yeah where they said because think about it they said they won't need they'll be taller thinner less bone density less muscle mass you know so all of these things you know that they were saying that you know 2,000 years in the future martians humans that's martian species will look so vastly different from us even though they're human right that they would they would essentially be aliens to us and if they were you know what happens who knows what happens in the evolution of that species.

Yeah, right. Super like, to me, I felt like, wow, you know, that kind of plays into the whole interstellar, you know, who knows. Yeah, and there's, and see, these are the types of, like, lines of thinking we need to be exploring, you know, for the past, like, you know, however many years, most UFO researchers and, and people that are just like watching UFO movies or, you know, alien movies or whatever, Or, you know, we almost had like an automatic assumption in our mind that, oh, it's aliens from another planet or from another place in space. When really it could be something that we can't even comprehend or think of or haven't thought of yet.

And, you know, what you're, you know, there's a guy named Dr. Michael Masters, and I think he's a, I think he's an evolutionary biologist, professor. And, you know, he has a theory called the extra tempestrials. which is saying like they're basically time travelers and it's you know this could be us like a hundred thousand years in the future coming back and that would explain why they're somehow not the same as us but similar like the chances and the odds that they would have a head two arms two legs but that is reported so so frequently in the and all the literature of UFOs and contact literature and experience or literature and they want so they want such limited content with us like you don't want to alter the future right right and also you know for you know people who report that there's DNA taken stuff you know things like that like why would you know so those ideas i think are are a good direction rather than just assuming that why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you no matter the size Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus,

IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. Shop now at IKEA.ca. They're just extraterrestrials from outer space. I mean, however, I still think that the ETI, the extraterrestrial or the ETH, the extraterrestrial hypothesis is you know we should still keep that on the table and you know I have to say that you know based on different encounters that I've had you know the ones that just happened to me and and during CE5 because I've done the CE5 stuff you know hundreds and

hundreds of times over thousands of hours and during the different kind of interactions or what have you I don't I don't think it's all the same intelligence that's responsible for what we call UFOs or UAP, unidentified anomalous phenomena, it seems that there's different things that are going on, you know, people report different types of entities and, you know, even in stories of like crash retrievals and, you know, there's, there's different types of crafts that are sometime reported, you know, sometimes there's a triangle, sometimes there's a disc, sometimes there's a cigar-shaped object, sometimes there's what we call a craft or vehicle, but it's made of light or plasma you know there's all these different um signatures so i don't i don't think

that we're we're dealing with all of the same intelligence necessarily yeah i have no problem with believe with i'm totally okay with not knowing or understanding the fact that i have no idea what's really happening you know i can i can look at my cell phone and a and a vehicle and tell you, I don't know how it works. Right. Vehicles are magic. My cell phone is, it's a little box of magic. Yes.

You know, so I have no, I have no, you know, I have no, I have no, I have no problem admitting that, look, I don't know what's happening here, you know, like I don't, it doesn't, I don't have to know. Like, I understand this is beyond my understanding. Yeah. And I was just, I was thinking like, you know, you know, I will watch a program where they were saying, look, these things have been cited forever. And then even if. let's assume that the Roswell crash was real, you know? So there's a real craft that was, you know, captured and maybe, and there's a few other instances and maybe, maybe actual, you know, if they're aliens have been actually captured.

You know, why it's always like, why wouldn't they tell us? Well, in the 1950s, like, if you had told the civilization that there were aliens, most of civilization is still being held together by religious beliefs. yeah that would have fundamentally changed but if you slowly leak these things out and change the consciousness of you know the global consciousness because it's not like it's just happening here this is everywhere we're slowly leaking it out and then you get to a point where you say okay I think they're ready because let's face it when those tapes came out from the from the navy and that to me was the first 100% consciousness.

concrete evidence. Do you know, that didn't do anything to me. Right. Like, I didn't change anything for me. I, listen, after I heard that, I still went to church on Sunday with, you know, with my wife. We still sat there. I still listened. I still got my car. I was like, that's crazy. Did you hear about the tapes? Did you watch that thing? Like, I'm talking to my buddies about it. We're like, what, what's going on? What's going? It didn't fundamentally make me decide I'm going to stop paying my bills. And I'm going to run around and become a maniac because there's no heaven like i didn't that wasn't wasn't what entered my mind it was just like it i had been so inundated by it over the last 40 or you know 50 years that i was like

i kind of fucking i kind of knew that anyway yeah this is proof but i kind of felt like it was pretty there was probably pretty true anyway now i've got proof that it's true so i'm good with it It didn't change anything. But I think in the 40s or 50s, I think it may have really done some damage. Yeah. And, you know, they did a study back in the late 50s, early 60s called the Brookings Institute study. And they, you know, they determined that if they would have disclosed this kind of idea to the public at that time, that it would have been catastrophic. And, you know, what happened when Orson Wells did the program saying that we were being?

Yeah, 1938, right? yeah right like if you took that in a test run yeah people went nuts yeah yeah yeah i mean the way it was presented was kind of jarring too it wasn't just like hey there's aliens or there's it was like it was like you know so go go buy stuff in the grocery store to live for the next you know apparently apparently i think back then toilet paper would have been disappeared yeah yeah but you know so yeah i think you know there there have been people so the cover up back then was probably again i don't want to say justified necessarily because you know we're democracy and you have to ultimately come to a vote or determination right but may you know i could

definitely see why back then where they're like we you know especially you got the cold war going on we just came out of world war two like you don't want to upset things worse than they are like We're not even sure that we're on a track where we're not going to nuke ourselves, right, right, mutually sure destruction. And maybe they don't even really know what to say. Right. And maybe this is our one meal ticket to ensure that we're going to be ahead of the access, you know, ahead of, you know, foreign adversaries. Like this is our one guarantee that we will, we will have technology that can outdo our adversaries in a cold war, right? Right.

like you don't want to you don't want to telegraph that so i mean there's strategic purposes why especially back then why it would have been so safely guarded um you know because you know we had atomic weapons and we know that the soviets had uh you know atomic capabilities and so we you know that kind of to some extent lost our edge in that case but you know this is a sure thing that we're going to have something that we can kind of glean off technologically and stay ahead um so do you think real sorry were you done with your thought um i was going to go somewhere else but by all means go ahead well i was going to say do you think that that that that the united states like do you think that those got like the

the navy were they not you know the navy pilots where they you know they released the video and do you think that that was done purposely like hey let's go ahead and start slipping this stuff into the record so by by some by somebody it was done intentionally i mean there's a whole course of action that took place to make sure that those tapes came out and they came out in a way that could not be contested and that was done by you know christopher melland lois and a few others but you got to understand so that you know let's just say that there there's a there's a secrecy group right that has been covering this up right people call it majestic

or majestic 12 you know whatever majority committee so if there was a group like that not everybody is on the same page there some of them are from different religious backgrounds moral backgrounds some of them are more power hungry some of they're more democratic in their thinking and they're they're not all on the same page right and maybe some of them for decades have been trying to leak some of this information out in different ways that were safe for them to do so, even though for them it was kind of risky, but it wasn't like they're putting their lives in jeopardy necessarily, but they're still getting information out to the public little by little and giving them breadcums. You know, again, amidst psychological operations against the American people, there are disinformation campaigns and there have been.

And, you know, David Crush testified to that as well. But, you know, so maybe, maybe within that group that's keeping the secret, you know, some of them are some of the people that have been in that group were dying off and new people are coming in and taking on the roles. And enough of them have, have wanted transparency that they've been able to make bolder moves. And now, now that the toothpaste is out, right? Now that they have gained that momentum, they can go ahead and put out as much as they think it's safe to do it, right? Like they're not going to put out a plan to how to create a UFO, right? But maybe the greater portion of the secrecy group, they want people to know it's time for a few reasons. For the people of the earth to know that we're not alone, there's another intelligence here, and that we have this technology.

right um so i think kind of that's that there are these different you know like factions within this group and that you know the the the portion of it that wants transparency has has gained enough momentum now to to put out what they think is safe to put out without um kind of putting national security at risk right where they're still able to put out the general information to some extent, you know, and part of, you know, again, this is speculation. What some people in the intelligence community have said is that, you know, we have these crafts, right, from crash retrievals and we cannot make sense of it, right? Like we can only make so much progress, right?

Like you had Philip Corso who wrote the book the day after Roswell and, you know, he was a colonel and allegedly he was in charge of taking some of the technology and giving at the private industry small pieces to different companies within the industry you know this his his testimony goes back to the 1960s saying that they gave like one little fragment to this company another fragment to this company so and and they didn't tell them it's it's where it's from right uh they said you know this is um foreign materials just try to figure out what it does how we can recreate it or what we can do with it and back so back starting at least in the 50s and 60s, we started to reverse engineer some of the technology that we can make sense of.

But, and that's how we got like, again, this is highly controversial, but, you know, they, the testimony will say that's how we got, you know, fiber optics, lasers and integrated circuits and like computer chips and stuff like that, you know, and how technology kind of boomed and blew took off really at that time period. And not that we weren't working on some stuff like that already a little bit, but it augmented greatly what we were doing and made us kind of create technology way faster than we would have. But, you know, other people argue, too, that there's some parts of the technology that we just can't, we don't know what to do with it. We're just not, we're not great because the programs are so compartmentalized and so secret and they're so siloed. that you can't have big teams of people working on it and it's it's delaying our progress right and allegedly the other other countries like russia and china and maybe korea or whoever that have at least parts of this technology too and maybe they have more people working on it and if you start making breakthroughs in this kind of technology you're going to you're going to

far exceed other other countries capabilities and that's that's a national security risk So now you have the secrecy of UFOs creating a national security risk, right? Right. So if you publicly disclose the general idea that we're not alone, there are advanced technologies and intelligences that have been interacting with humanity, and we have some of the technology, you can create, you can begin to make pathways for programs that can more efficiently and effectively work on the technology

get more brighter people and brighter minds on it working on it together so we can make those breakthroughs because we've hit a wall. Yeah, I can only imagine the secrecy that would be surrounding something like this. Like you're right, you can't have a large group of people working on it at the same time. Look what happened with the Manhattan Project. I mean, the Soviets, which we know that, yeah. They're 20, they're 30 years behind us. Not when they've got people inside the Manhattan project.

giving them information. So yeah, so I'm sure that was a, that was a hard, obviously that was a hard lesson to learn. You were 20 to 30 years ahead of your, you know, ahead of your,

um, competition and five years later, they're setting off or, you know, there are two or three years later, they're setting off their own nukes. Yeah. And,

you know, there's, there's a scientist, um, named Dr. Davis. And, you know,

he, he talked about how, you know, there's a way, You know, every few years, they look at the technology. They have a program that tries to reverse engineer the technology. And if they can make sense of it at the time or if they found new sciences that can make more advances, they do what they can.

And then once they hit a wall again, they put it away for another few years until scientists come up more and evolve more and become more intricate. And we can revisit technology with the advances we made and try to make more. out of it, but that that was creating a problem because we're not moving with it fast enough and we have potential adversaries that could be making advances. But with that, you know, I want to mention something that's called the Wilson Davis notes because it's, again, it's highly, you know, relevant to this conversation and the testimony of David Grush, who was talking about UFO crash retrievals. and UFO reverse engineering programs

or what I think he called, you know, exploitation programs. And because, you know, you had the scientist, Dr. Eric Davis, who's actually ended up working for that, you know, because this meeting he had with an admiral, this guy, Admiral Tom Wilson, you know, this goes back a few years because,

and it actually goes back to Dr. Stephen Greer, believe it or not. So let me go over. back there real quick. So in 1997, Dr. Stephen Greer had a meeting in the Pentagon with Vice Admiral Tom Wilson, who at the time was a deputy DIA director. And he brought with him the astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who was a sixth man to walk on the moon. And he brought with him a Navy commander who helped set the meeting up, Commander Will Miller. And Dr. Greer brought some documents with him and and some information to Tom Wilson and the Pentagon to say,

hey, you know, we need your help. You have these secret programs, these UFO programs, and here's a bunch of information, basically, on how to find them. So, you know, allegedly, according to the story, Dr. Greer has this NRO document. And, you know, again, according to Dr. Greer's testimony, on the document there's like code names code numbers and tom wilson admiral vice admiral tom wilson recognizes some of some of these programs because he's he's also joint joint chiefs of staff at that point so that all this stuff is supposed to be under his command basically and he's

like wait you know he notices he he recognizes a few of the program names and numbers so he goes ahead and he contacts them right and he he speaks to uh somebody in the program and they say you know we know who you are um admiral tom wilson but you're not allowed to be read into these programs you don't have access he's like what are you talking about i'm i'm j2 i'm the deputy dia director i should be running these programs you don't you're not telling me that i don't have access to them you know so he went through chain of command he went to the special access um special access program oversight committee and he went through his channels and he's a big gorilla in at this point right um and he again like technically probably he should have had oversight over these

programs if these programs were run the way they were supposed to but because they're clandestine and their uh black programs he was he was basically blocked out of the programs And, you know, people went on to vet this meeting, like Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the astronaut, confirmed that the meeting happened. And so, you know, and then, you know, we find out into that, you know, in 2002, Dr. Eric Davis, who ended up being part of that OSAP and ATIP program. He's a scientist, you know, he worked unclassified programs with the Air Force. he worked with Bigelow Airspace and, you know, highly intelligent guy. He ends up getting a meeting with Tom Wilson in 2002. And, you know, to talk about these UFO programs.

And, you know, Dr. Eric Davis took notes during this meeting he had with Tom Wilson, and those notes leaked. And you can, if you look up the Wilson Davis notes, you'll see the notes. you'll get you'll see the discussion that they had but basically you know what what vice admiral tom wilson discloses in that in the notes and in the meeting is that he found that the program he found like two or three programs and he was able to get a hold of um somebody from one of the programs and they invited him to come to come visit and speak with them and he ends up getting in touch with a program or project manager, the program security officer, and a corporate

lawyer. So they tell them, like, you know, the reason that they had the meeting with him is because they wanted to know how he found out about the program because they had almost been uncovered and they almost were compromised because of an audit several years before. And, you know, if they're found out, they're in deep, you know, they're in trouble because they're, they're basically running a black program, which technically could be illegal, but it's also partially kind of, I don't want to say government audits. Yeah. So, you know, they can lose their funding and they're, you know, they're doing something and they're not that nobody's supposed to know about, basically, with black money. So they have the meeting with him and they, and he's Tom Wilson, Mitz.

Like, he thinks that it's being, it's, UFO is being used as a cover, but it's really like, you know, Russian or some kind of other technology that we found. And the people in the program are like, no, no, no, no, no. This, these, these, this technology is not made by human hands. And they go on to talk about, you know, the same thing, right? We have recovered off-willed vehicles and we, we work on it. It's highly compartmentalized. You know, it's kind of been brought into the private sector. you can't FOIA it and it's proprietary right if it's in a corporate setting so you the government

kind of loses a little bit of access to it because it's proprietary corporate information you know they can legally say you're not allowed to know certain things about our company right it's it's proprietary so um they end up telling him they have an full intact craft right and this is some of the stuff that david grush has testified to congress about right so that's a separate source that's saying the same thing about these crash retrieval programs that some of them have intact crafts um so they tell tom wilson you know you know you're not on the bigot list so you don't have access we're not going to show anything with you or share anything with you but as kind of like a courtesy and so you'll leave us alone we'll tell you a little bit you know um

and you know they tell them that you know they have the off world technology they try to make sense of it every few years and then again they put it away they shelve it and they revisit it and try to make the advancements but um they they there's certain parts of the technology they they just can't crack and you know the significance of that that document right though the wilson davis memo which came out i believe in 2019 i believe and you know some of me and my friends had it earlier than it was like really really out there in the public and at the time I was speaking to Dr. Eric Davis and I got a I got a quote from him for public use so I was speaking with him and this is this is funny because the quote I got from him this was kind of like I think like two weeks before the notes broke out into the public in a big way but Louis Lozando the intelligence officer that was part of the ATIP program ends up going on Fox with Tucker Carl Carlson and Tucker Carlson's like do you do you believe that the U.S. government has

materials or debris from UFOs and Lou Elizando's like you know I have to be really careful about what I say because of my security clearances and it looks like he's going to just back away but then he says uh but actually simply put yes so and Tucker Carlson's like baffled right this guy who is in charge of the UFO program for the for the government just said that he believes that the U.S. government is in possession of crash retrievals, basically. And so I asked Eric Davis that night, I said, what do you think of loose statement on Tucker Carlson? And so Dr. Davis replies, you know, I think that, you know, Lou Alizant, and this is a paraphrase. Louis Loisando's statement on Tucker Carlson about the U.S. being in possession of, you know, UFOs and UFO technology.

And first he said crashed UFO technology. And then he changed it and said, no, use this quote. Crashed and landed UFO technology is 1,000% accurate. And, you know, then the notes break out. right and is public and everybody kind of like realizes that dr eric davis is a lot more involved in this than people assume and that he was involved somehow right with getting access to crash retrieval uh information right whether however he did that and whatever he was tasked with um so you know the notes come out and it was like a huge deal because you know again

those notes took that meeting took place with dr. David and Tom Wilson in 2002, and now it's 17 years later, 2019, the notes go public. And people at that time realized that Stephen Greer had the meeting with Dr. Edgar Mitchell and Will Miller and Tom Wilson in 97. So now people are putting everything together. And you basically, in the gist of all that, you have Vice Admiral Tom Wilson, who was the deputy DIA director. But by the time he had the meeting with Dr. Eric Davis, he had been the director of the DIA.

And then when he had the meeting in 2002 with Dr. Eric Davis, he had just retired and went to the private sector. And they met in Las Vegas at an EG and G parking lot and all that. So now when the notes come out, everybody puts all these different pieces together. And you basically have Vice Admiral Tom Wilson saying, you know, saying, to Dr. Davis that we have recovered UFOs crash and landed. So, and now, you know, several years in the future now from 2019 into 2023, you have David Grush who was, you know, this guy was somebody who prepared, you know, presidential briefings, not necessarily on UFOs, maybe, maybe, I don't, you know, I don't know if we would ever know that, but on other intelligence

because he worked with the NRO, the National Reconstance Office, which is one of the most secret and highly classified government agencies. And the NGA, you know, national geospatial agency, which is dealing with satellite images. And, you know, if you were going to track a UFO, you know, these are the two places you would do it because it's all the satellites, right? And because David Gresh ended up, you know, the reason he got involved, you know, And I would recommend everybody watch the UFO hearing that it's on YouTube.

If you type in, you know, 2023 UFO hearing, it's going to come up or oversight Congress. Yeah, Congress oversight committee, you know, David Grush has testified under oath before Congress, along with two Navy pilots who were involved in, you know, one was involved at the Tick-Tac incident, lieutenant commander David Fraver. involved in, you know, he testified to what he knows, especially about the Tick-Tac incident. And then you had Lieutenant Ryan Graves retired, who was involved with a bunch of UFO or UAP incidents on the East Coast in 2014, 2015, with the other videos that came out with the gimbal. And they're like, hold, they're like, holy shit, what is that, man? You know, they're like, look at that on the ASA.

And there's a whole fleet of them, you know, so he was involved with those incidents. But, you know, David Grush, you know, part of how he came into this information about crash retrievals was that he was assigned to the UAP task force. So after those videos were released in 2017, eventually in I think 2018 or 2019, we officially got the UAP task force to say, hey, wait a second, what's going on? And, you know, not so much of the public knows, but some researchers know, and the people that were involved in these programs, know, like Dr. Eric Davis, who was involved in the UAP task force, at least unofficially. And these same people help put off and Lou Alizando, you know, again, to whatever capacity, either officially or unofficially are involved with the UAP task force in 2018, I believe, in onwards, to investigate what does the government know about? UFOs like what you know what happened to these incidents that are being reported that because they they said atip ended right in you know the government said oh you know a tip uh ended in 2012 luo losandro says no it didn't because i was the director of at tip until it ended and when

after he left until until he left so and he he came out in 2017 to the new york time so just a month before he came to the New York Times, he was the director of ATIP, and that's 2017. So that ATIP, which never really ended, morphed into UAP Task Force, you know, just so people have a contextual understanding of the timeline. So UAP Task Force was formed, and you had Jay Stratton, who was also involved in ATIP and AASAP, I believe it becomes the director of UAP task force. And David Grush is assigned to the UAP task force to investigate as part of their investigation.

So while David Grush is, you know, is basically given orders to investigate it by the government on official capacity to investigate UFOs and UAPs while he's working with the UAP task force, he is investigating and he finds individuals, but also individuals start coming to him. And, I mean, you need to look into David Grush's background because the level that this guy was clear to is insane. Again, NRO and NGA are extremely highly sensitive. I think they said that David Grush had access to like 2,000 special access programs, which is insane.

you know those most people are not going to be assigned to more than one or two or whatever it is of those programs he had a really high clearance and oversight to special access programs and and just for context if you want to hear more about david grush's background you read the debrief article that was written by leslie kane and ralph blumenthal again on the debrief about that's how his story came out was through that debrief article and then subsequently he was written by leslie kane and ralph blumenthal again on the debrief about that's how his story came out was through that debrief article and then subsequently he was was on News Nation with Ross Coltart giving him like his testimony, which ends up being like a 45 minute video that was released on News Nation, just so you understand how involved and how clear that David Grush is or was. And here, you know, you have David Grush testifying to these same things that while he was on official duty and while he was officially tasked to investigate this, he has over, you know, again, he found some people and then He said people that he knew in the defense and intelligence industry for years. Like he knew these people and they were super highly cleared and classified people were telling him and providing information like documents.

And again, I don't know what he can publicly state, but possibly photographs and maybe videos. Again, that there's a crash retrieval program and that there's bodies that have been reclassified. covered and that there's a reverse engineering program or you know UFO technology exploitation program and he had over 40 plus witnesses that work directly on these programs to this day that they still work on these programs to this day give him information and while he was investigating this he started receiving reprisals there were there so there was retaliation against David Grush personally while he's assigned to do this investigation

so he had to put in an intelligence community inspector general complaint because he's he's investigating this at an official capacity and now he's being targeted right well like you said there's two different right you know trains of thought on how it should be handled exactly i'm sure that's always been the case yeah yeah right and and but the but the side that's been trying to be more transparent has has gained momentum just recently since 2017 right right and now they have they have some force behind them i mean now that that congress is so from 2017 like congress didn't really know about all this when that came out it gave insiders the

excuse and the ability and the bravery to start speaking to people in the Senate Intelligence Committee in the Congress and oversight committees, the Armed Service committees. At 2017, they started receiving briefings from some of these people. And, you know, we find out through David Grush's testimony, he was able to start providing some of this information to the two key people who, I mean, like, if you look at the Congress now, and even if, like, Chuck Schumer recently put out language in the National Defense Authorization Act for 2024.

And, you know, he's the Senate majority leader, the most powerful man, the Senate. And he's, he put out language that is saying in the language 22 times that says non-human intelligence, right? Right. He's not just putting that there 22 times randomly, right? He, even if he won't publicly admit it or whatever it is, he knows something. He's putting that language that he's informed, right? There's other, and there's other people in these committees that probably have been. briefed on on on a very secure level and are convinced and they're taking action that's why we're

seeing this here the hearing come together at all right we had the hearing this unprecedented there's never been a UFO hearing in in in the history where you had service members testify it's always been other people that are speaking to to UFO evidence this is firsthand testimony from people who are actively involved and well I would say you know like but you know think about it like i understand what you're saying about congress but you know well congress should know i mean okay certain people in congress should probably know but i mean congress is just some guy who decided they're representatives right right you know what i'm saying people are well congress is in the wait a minute congress they're they're just representatives like this is some guy who honestly

a year and a half could have been running a grocery store you know what i'm saying yeah yeah but but the significance here is that I mean publicly you can see that they're pissed right yeah you can see that you can see the actions that are being taken over the last course of years there's been several of these NDAA national defense authorization acts where like the one from last year there was over 40 pages dedicated to UAP and in the language you can see the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Congress are trying to get answers because they've been kept out of the loop. So there are actions being taken for more transparency.

You know, you have Senator Gillibrand, who's also from New York, publicly stating, you know, that if she came into the information that this is real, she wants the public to know. And I don't think that this is some kind of show or political move or whatever. I think because, again, you do see the bipartisan support and you see actions being taken. that where if they wanted to they could have just all had some secret meeting somewhere we would have never known about it and never heard about it and that would have been the end of it i don't think it's you know like you know i don't think it's a show i think that these are people that genuinely just don't know and aren't being kept in the loop because they're under kind of the whole delusion that that really that everybody's under which is something that even you said you're like well you know we're living in a democracy like we're not living in a democracy like we're not living in We're a Republican. We're a Democratic Republic. Right. So, you know, there's a whole other system of government and bureaucracy that is going on and has been going on for over 100 years, what, 200 years, I guess. But let's say 100 years where it's been, let's say, well, I guess less than 100 years maybe on this subject that has compartmentalized itself in such a way as to keep it from scrutiny from. those people that believe we're living in an open,

right, um, transparent democracy. Right. And so now that they're about to be just now they're slowly being so discovered, they're freaking out. Yes. Well, and see,

that's the thing. And, and part of the thing about the secrecy, I don't, I don't, I don't think people are, will, are so shocked about UFOs,

right? I think one of the hardest things that, for people to realize, right, when, when they learn about this and they learn this is true and when this is publicly acknowledged, officially is not that other entities exist and they're interacting with us.

Yeah, that's kind of like, wow, that's amazing. But they have to come to terms that they've been lied to, right? Their government lied to them intentionally to keep this away from them. So what else? What else are they lying about? What else are they keeping secret? It flips the table upside down. This is probably the big one.

It is. I can't imagine. I'm sure there's lots of little things, but this is the big one. Yeah. Yes, for sure. And so, but then at that point, you have to question your entire view of the world, your country, and everything. You have to question everything at that point. Again, like for me, with the experience, it's on a very deep and personal level.

But with this being publicly disclosed and what we're seeing happen, there's a few kind of key things here. Number one, this whole thing is being exposed. So the secrecy, the disinformation, how the issue was handled. So, but that also gives us. the opportunity. I'm not a utopianist by any means, but this gives us an opportunity to start to get on a better path and say, you know, if we can correct this issue a little bit, right? Like there's more transparency on it. Maybe that that can shift over into other parts of government where there's more transparency, you know, for different reasons, right? It gives us an opportunity

to create change essentially, you know, how far that can and will go. I have no idea. I'm optimistic. I think this is a really teachable moment. I think we can learn a lot from this whole thing. You know, not just, you know, because also you have to realize,

like people are going to know now. Like, somebody's fucking watching us. You know, excuse my French. Like, we're being watched by a higher intelligence and what the hell are they thinking? We're doing,

right? I mean, there's going to be people who don't like, don't care or whatever, but they're going to be like, wow, we're being observed by a higher intelligence. And they must think we're,

we're nuts you know like what look what we're doing um just look how we act right like these are like we're hiding stuff from our own people essentially right there are there's people with certain amounts of influence that are have misused power and and and essentially it affects us all though right right so this is a chance to to realize that and potentially start to make change in better directions. And the reason I'm optimistic a little bit on that at least is because we've already seen some of those changes begin. And it might just right now be mostly with the UFO stuff

and the secrecy stuff and UAP transparency and how oversight has been undermined. But we've already seen Congress and Senate and bipartisan parties, you know, they have come to. together, work together on an issue, put their differences aside, and actually make a change. And we've been seeing that happen in real time the last six years, which it's pretty unprecedented. So maybe that will carry over into other, other, you know, subjects and issues. Maybe they'll say, wow, look what we did when we came together and, and tackled this issue

and the changes we made maybe just maybe we can do that with other things too maybe right again i'm optimistic by nature i'm hopeful i'm not naive but but maybe maybe that will be a demonstration of like when we really need to get shit done we can get it done i doubt that but i i'm optimistic i'm not naive but i'm optimistic maybe because again because again and i don't think this is like an overnight thing right it's i think this is a generational like this is going to take decades because because now we're going to we're going to come to the acknowledgement officially soon because in that chuck schumer language it says we need a plan to disclose this to the public right right so you know with plan there's there's the kind of subtle thing of like

we have to plan how we're going to communicate this which you know obviously there's going to be some kind of narrative that's unavoidable we have to acknowledge that they're not going to paint themselves in a bad light that you know why would they um but you know there there is a plan to disclose this to the public at least on some level right right who knows what they're going to end up officially acknowledging and disclosing i do think that the crash retrieval issue has been purposely put been put forth front and center for a reason i think they are going to address non-human intelligence. I think they are going to address crash retrievals and, you know,

retrieved technologies and reverse engineering programs. I think that that will be publicly acknowledged. So, you know, beyond that, I don't know, I don't know how much. I can't imagine how much further than that, because even that is tremendous. So I don't know how much further than that they'll go. But, you know, with that, you're going to have a new, I mean, certainly us we kind of have that idea but future generations like even the young the people who are kids now are going to grow up knowing for a fact that we're not alone right that that we are you know despite our differences we are one human family right so there's there's going to be generations growing up with that mentality right they have to right my personal um uh suspicion which could very well be wrong is I don't I don't think that the UFO or UAP intelligence what the others or

whatever you want to call non-human intelligence I don't think that uh they're a detrimental threat to us right um could there be threats involved in different ways where we wouldn't be here right right it would have been over right does that does that mean that they don't they could still have their own self-interest that inter that interferes with our society a little bit but I don't think they're looking to wipe us out or you know whatever it is right or take control or you know whatever that case may be i don't know i don't know that's the fact but i don't think that's the case yeah i don't think that like listen if they wanted us go on like it would be as simple as they would just sprinkle some you know they sprinkle some some some dust and and and everybody with

human DNA would be wiped off the planet like it couldn't be difficult right so yeah so i so i so what i wanted to say with that is you're going to have future generations the people that are kids now and even teenagers growing up with the mentality that we are one human society we're one human family and maybe to some extent like we have to stick together just in case right because maybe there's others out there that are visiting us now they're are advanced and they're not they're they're not an overt threat to us but now that we know there are those others we may encounter other others in 20, 30, 100, 200, 300, a thousand years from now that we really need to be on the same page and not killing each other because we might have to stick together for our own

survival, right? Oh, yeah. So, I mean, I think, so what I mean is the social conditioning of that, which might be even intentional by the UFO phenomenon socially conditioning us, is that, you know, I think to some extent people are going to have a mentality that, like, we kind of have to not kill each other and stick together to some extent because we have to, right, just to even ensure our own survival. So, I mean, that might even be part of why the threat narrative is so, you know, other than the defense issues is being put out there. So that's why I say I'm optimistic because I think that this issue of non-human intelligence has the potential to teach us and make us grow in a positive.

direction. You know, whether we take that initiative or not is up to us, right? Our individual and collective actions are going to decide that, and it is up to us. But, you know, I'm, again, I'm optimistic. So I think that people have the ability to make the right choices and start going down a path that way. And eventually, over time, you know, we're going to see a greater change, you know, maybe not utopian, right? I don't think it's going to be a utopian. thing, but I think that we can grow in a constructive direction. Well, I don't think, I think humans by nature need a struggle. So I think, right, but we have it.

Now we have it. Yeah, utopia would be hell eventually. It would be great for, not three months. It would, yeah, it would dissolve and I don't, I don't think, yeah, we need a challenge. We need that kind of, you know, utopia, yeah. I think it's too idealistic. Yeah. It's kind of like the matrix thing where he's.

exactly we had a movie. They kept failing. Yes. Listen, there's a, there's a, there was a, I don't know how many times. I think they've read, I think they've, um, done the same experiment several times where they had like mice generation after generation of mice that they were simply just feeding and keeping alive and, and initially they're having children, taking care of their children, um, and reproducing.

But after six or seven generations, they stop having sex that much. They stop taking care of the children that they do have. They start becoming like almost depressed. They start like there's, it's a whole breakdown of their entire society just because it's such a perfect situation for them. Yeah. Like you, by nature, individuals or, you know, species in general have to have something to strive. towards you remove that it's okay horrible breaks down if this is not going to come off too naive um you know maybe that challenge partially or you know could instead of us like fighting for domain

over the earth we'll have other places to explore and you know i always think that to some extent we're going to have yeah differences and and some level of of conflict but you know you know if we have a great challenge like trying to discover in space and you know all these other like planets and stuff and potentially gather resources and we're not fighting so much amongst each other just to survive you know there's maybe less of that right and now but again we're yeah we'll be fine we're right correct correct yeah no they're going they're going to they have to drag this out um yeah I like to me why not just come out like at this point it's already basically out there might as well just come out and say look we've got these crafts here's what they are we'll give you we're going to release X amount of information there's some stuff we're going to keep just for national security but yes at this time this is what happened these are the documented documented incidences these are the like that to me would be And really, I think that would practically nip it in the butt if you said, hey, we're reverse engineering, certain programs. We're not going to tell you what they are. You know, like, I'd be, I'm okay with that. I think, like the concrete.

I think we're going to see that in, in not a long time from now. Because there's already more hearings planned. There's a meeting happening. I just need that. Yeah. I just need it. I just need it to like, yeah. Yeah.

Well, I have a few people to apologize to. Yeah. for sure well you know so I think later this week there's going to be a meeting it's not a congressional hearing but like Tim Burchett and and others are going to be there talking about the UAP issue in DC on I believe it's the 17th and I believe that will be publicly viewable but in September there's supposed to be another hearing right with more witnesses right and and you know based on what I know speaking different researchers and and people that are involved in the background it this is not slowing down this is not losing momentum this is

only going further and further and the people i've spoken to that are were involved with some of these programs have said you know they're the push that they're doing for this is they're trying to go all the way that's the plan and these are people that are intelligence and military and they're very mission oriented you know um they're very serious about this and they're not going to stop until until it sees the light of day. And I think, I was just saying, you know, it's interesting to me is like, I was kind of, you know, I've had those moments where it's like, well, why that, if there are so many people involved in these programs, how come at some point they don't come out?

But I, I keep thinking about like, shoot, what was his name, uh, Snowden? You know, like, like, you know, like these guys signed these documents and, and the government doesn't care. Right. What comes out. Like, I don't care what, well, what you're doing is wrong. I don't care. whether you think it's wrong or not some some people have come out over time like philop corso right he

came out on his deathbed basically right because um but if you're if you're 45 years old and you got two kids right you're thinking you're thinking i know all this and i can prove it i've actually got information i got this you know people some people said why don't you come out oh because i got two kids in a wife bro like i'll go to prison you think they won't throw me in prison so and here's the thing we've seen some people like that like lou elizondo left his career at the pentagon where he's at the top of his game you know you look up lou elizondo's credentials this dude is i don't know if i could walk away from that job and he's got kids right right um and he he walked away from that job to to help push this forward now he's probably has retained his security clearances and can and can

work in the you know in you know defense industry right but that's still a risk there might be people that don't want to hire him because right too so so he he faced a lot of um you know pushback for what he did but he's also not walking away with actual documents he's not walking away with really secure documents is he he he helped get the tapes out i'm not i'm not going to say to what he got to who right i can't say that we're doing in such a way that he's got plausible, you know, kind of deniability, right, like I look 100%. When from me, you know, you can at least, it's not like you're walking out saying, look, here's this.

He did it in the way that it had to be done because if he just came out with the information, it's not going to correct the issue. People are going to say, oh, that's true or other people are going to say, all this bullshit, and we're still in the same spot we've been in for the last 70 years. What Louis Alessando did, Christopher Mellon, David Grush, and all these people that have been pushing for this, they've done it through official channels. that has resulted in creating the change we're seeing because they did it the right way. The Disclosure Project was a great initiative.

I don't think we would be here without it. But the way it was done, it was almost brushed off, right? Because it got the awareness out there, but nobody was brave enough to make the changes. It didn't go through the proper channels. It was just like, you know, to hell with it, you know, we are, we're just putting this out there. And again, it ultimately led us here because I don't think we would be here now if those events didn't occur with Stephen Greer and then that because, you know, the disclosure project was in 2001, right? But Stephen Greer and Lawrence Rockefeller and, you know, Bill Clinton tried to get involved and got pushed out. And other people tried, this was going on in the early 90s.

So it took from early 90s with Project Starlight with Stephen Greer and Lawrence. Rockefeller and Bigelow was involved back then and all these people were involved until 2001 when the disclosure project happened just to get that meet that event in Washington DC to occur and from 2001 to 2017 for more people on the inside realizing that this is true and working together and Harry Reid creating the offset program in 2007 2008 and getting a program on the record which was later publicly disclosed closed by Lou Alizondo and acknowledged by everybody else who was involved, you know,

which there are a lot of people, a lot of people made this happen from the inside. And, you know, again, there's been distrust over that because there's, oh, you can't trust these people,

but, you know, who else are going to get the information other than the people that are involved, right? Right. So, and so there's a lot of distrust in, and in some of the research community,

because they're paranoid and they should be but that's the result of 80-90 year cover-up basically you know right it has this it's created a cognitive dissonance and and it's you know the cover-up has been has done a lot of damage right but now you know you have another individual

came forward who I've mentioned a bunch of times that was David Grush right so David Grush came out but he did so like in a through an official chance He went to the intelligence community inspector general and put an official complaint. Not only that he witnessed these things, these programs being mismanaged, but also that he faced retaliation personally and was in fear of his life because of this. And the intelligence community inspector general, as reported by that deep brief article on David Grush, deemed his, his testimony and the evidence that he provided to the intelligence community inspector general,

he deemed it urgent and credible. Okay. So, and, and David Gresh has given over 11.5 hours privately on all, all the information he knows to these people, right, in the intelligence community inspector general and maybe people within Congress. that he 11.5 hours of testimony, but also provided all the evidence to support his claims. And there were people that have worked directly on the program, other whistleblowers that David Grush vetted, have also testified in a classified setting, you know, privately to these intelligence community inspector general and maybe in different committees, there's some, Several of those 40 plus witnesses have also supported and corroborated and verified what David Grush reported initially. So there's a ton of other witnesses that are out there that have worked or do work directly on these UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs that have spoken to the people that can actually do something about it.

And that's why we're seeing this ground swell. and that's why we're seeing everything happen now because these people that are making the language and these decisions now basically they're in the loop now and there's no going back basically. You're not putting this one back because somebody

at any given time if things don't go if things don't go the nice way some of these people are going to put the information out anyways right there's fail you don't really want to come out officially and say listen it's just not the case you know you and take a hard stand at this point because then suddenly suddenly people get frustrated and they come out and they go ahead and they say I'll bite the bullet I'm going to release

some stuff right and now you're the guy that was standing in front of the podium lying yeah well and the thing is like now there's there's enough momentum and there's enough support that when that information comes out now, it won't be disregarded. People will investigate it actively. And when they investigate it, they're going to find, they've been provided the information. And I'm convinced that several of these people have already have some of their evidence and testimony stashed somewhere nice. So if things don't go the right way, there are people in key places that are going to release the information anyways. And it's going to come out to the public one way or another. So it's in the best interest of.

Congress and the Senate and even people within these programs that are trying to stonewall this, it's within their best interest to go along with what's going on because they're only going to get hurt if they don't because David Grush provided locations, personnel, code names and code numbers, everything of where these programs are, how to find them, how they're funded. And even in some of the recent NDAA language, people have been given anonymity to come forward within a certain time period. And if they don't come forward and they're found after the six-month period or 60-day period, whatever it is, they could be charged criminally under prosecution for not coming forward when they were asked to specifically. So it's within their best interest to comply, basically. And again, they're being, they're being given amnesty to some degree.

So they, even if they're part of a program like this or they have knowledge of it, they're not going to be penalized by the government. They're not going to be persecuted for being involved. You know, they can come forward safely with the information testimony and the evidence that they have on this, just specifically pertaining to the UFO or UAP subject and provide it to the proper people that they need. to the proper committees and they will not receive retaliation or, you know, they won't get in trouble for it.

Well, if you're one of the people that don't want this to come out, you were in charge of one of those, you've got, they've got to be those agencies or programs and they've got to be freaking out right now. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

I love to be in one of those meetings. Yeah, everybody's like. There's been speculation in the research community about that too. and I don't I don't want to contribute to to rumors but yeah that's that's certainly the case and I think there's enough people that are within those programs that are on board that they're they're complying and they're you know the reason that David Grush was able to come out was because the prior year in the NDA language the National Defense Authorization Act language

and the Gillibrand amendment they called for whistleblower protection so that's how David Grush was able to come out as a whistleblower. He's the first official UFO whistleblower in history. And so his case is highly important. And the fact that he was able to testify under oath in front of Congress is super important. And I think it's really important that people get behind him and support him because the people that are willing to come behind him and follow up and be whistleblowers are watching

how David Grush is being treated. So I think we really need to support him. so other people will be encouraged to come behind him and share their testimony and be whistleblowers to this subject as well right well listen i and you you you do you talk about this on your channel all this uh the different things that are happening or what is your channel your youtube channel specifically going over do you go i talk about everything i talk about everything so i i talk about contact and CE5 and experience or stuff but I also talk about this issue and you know again I'll go into some history stuff sometimes but current events for sure the

last the last interview I did with my friend Ryan Robbins who does has post-disclosure world who you should have him on as a guest sometime he's a great he's a researcher but he makes great videos if you look him up I think you'll you'll be entertained by his videos but also informed um so i cover all this on my channel engaging the phenomenon because it's important you know right and the thing is it's everything is so fast nowadays like years ago in the research community if there was like one shitty news article we were like yes victory it's it's like a full-time job now it's it's hard to keep up with everything that's going on that's how fast it's moving now we're so interconnected at this point yeah well and there's just so much happening there's so many like

congressional you know witnesses coming forward new information coming forward new more reporting on it um you know because you have other mainstream reporters right um my i believe his name is michael schellenberger i hope i'm not messing up his name um who has been publicly reporting you know he's an investigative journalist um i think he wrote an article for the time and he's spoken to some of these witnesses, some of these whistleblowers, and he can't share their identity, but he's saying he's vetted all their, you know, their credentials. They are who they say they are. They have the security clearances that they claim to have.

And they're telling him, like, we have these crafts. We have the reverse engineering programs and, you know, bodies and everything. And so there's other investigative journalists like him. And he even said this on the skeptics show, Michael Schumer. I mean, Michael, I'm blanking on his name now, the guy who's the skeptic guy. I don't know who that is. All right. Yeah.

Every, everybody will know who I'm talking about. He's like the official skeptic. But he, you know, Michael Schumer, Michael Schumer. So Michael Schumer runs like a skeptical podcast. And he had this gentleman on and they were talking about these issues. And again, he's written an article about it. And again, Leslie Kane is another journalist and Ralph Blumenthal that, you know, people need to keep track of their work and what they're saying.

Ross Colthart has done a lot of work on this. He did the original video interview with David Grush on News Nation. You know, I'm not crazy about mainstream news sources, but News Nation has taken this topic on full on. And when it comes to this, they've been doing excellent reporting, fearless, basically. They're not holding any punches. So if you go on like News Nation's YouTube channel and you're looking at all their UFO content, they're not pulling punches. So if, you know, you want to stay up to speed, it's a good idea to check some of those out either as well. Okay. Well, listen, I, I, I appreciate you coming on and, you know, going over your story and just, you know, talking about talking on the subject, you're clearly way more knowledgeable than I am.

Yeah, well, you know, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. You know, you have the open mind enough to, and, and the eyes to see that, you know, what's going on right in front of everybody's eyes basically now at this point. Well, I think, I can't imagine anybody at this point would, would not realize that there's something obviously major that's happening. There's still some people that are like, and it's, believe it or not, it's like the hardcore scientific community, like Neil de Grossey Tyson and Mick West and others who, who they, some, they think that. Listen, 25 years ago, they would mock people that would look for other planets. Right. Right. And it's like, really? There's hundreds of thousands of them now.

millions what happened to being a what happened to being ridiculous looking for other planets now yeah now there's now there's there's millions of goldilocks planets there's millions of earth like planets right exactly they're they're in that perfect zone where there's so there's a super good chance of life and that's just our that's just our galaxy right there's hundreds of billions of other galaxies right i i tend to because i you know with time you tend to be wrong so often i tend to not dig in on anything. It's, there's so much. There's just so much information in our world today. You can't keep track of everything. You know, like it's,

it's just crazy. Even with the UFO subject now, it's like almost too much, right? And any other subject subsequently, like, again, the astrology and all this, it's just like,

it's overwhelming. So you got to pick, you got to use your time, you know, skillfully. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the video. Do me a favor if you liked it. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified videos just like this.

Leave me a comment in the comment section. I'm going to leave James's link to his channel in the description box. So click on a link, subscribe to his channel if you're interested in the subject. Share this video to your friends and family. Really appreciate you guys watching. See you.