Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How Counterfeit Money Actually Works | Dark Web Counterfeiter

Episode Date: May 15, 2024

How Counterfeit Money Actually Works | Dark Web Counterfeiter

And the first time I ever saw a counterfeit bill, I was blown away. I mean, it had the security strip, it had the watermark, it was the right color, the right texture. I tried newsprint, I tried wrapping paper, I tried rice paper. Once I figured out how to make them properly, I was like, how am I going to actually make money off this? So I got on the dark net, learned about cryptocurrency, the vendor bonds, encrypted chats. This is going to be the perfect opportunity to, you know, sell these online. You ever see two people that you meet that just shouldn't be together? Right.

You see them in public or you see them, you know, at the restaurants or somewhere and you're just like, these two people shouldn't be married. Right. Those, that was my parents. So they got divorced when I was about 12. Oh, okay. And, you know, dad moved out. My sister and I stayed with my mom.

It just, there's a lot of stress going on in the house at the time, you know. And so I turned to, you know, smoking pot for the first time. Right. And, you know, that sort of started off my whole, you know, sort of drug career. and there's, you know, and this is the, you know, late 90s, early 2000. So there's a lot of kids, you know, doing ecstasy, acid, you know, that kind of stuff. So I sort of experimented with all these different drugs. When I was 15, I ended up having surgery on my left knee.

And that was sort of my first experience with oxycontin. And, you know, it's... They give you oxycontin. So they didn't give me oxycontin specifically, but that was my first experience, I guess, with just opiates in general. So it was like, it was like, they were like per 10s. Right. Well, I guess they got to give you something. Right, right. So that was really my first experience with, you know, opiate drugs. And I remember the first time that I ever, like, took more than I was supposed to, you know, I took like two instead of three. It was like, you know, I was high for the first time. And so I was like, this is, you know, this is great because I also was able to, you know, skate a lot, not better, but, you know, I wasn't in pain anymore. You know, all this lack of confidence and, I don't know, anger that I had towards, you know, my family.

in certain things that happened to me when I grew up that sort of, you know, allowed me to, you know, live the way that I wanted to live, I guess, inside my own head, you know? So that really sort of kicked things off. The first time I ever tried OxyContin was when I was 17, and that was just through a friend. Someone had it, you know, we used to do, you know, party on the weekends and stuff. And so one of my friends had had a couple 80s, you know, oxycott and 80s. And that, when I tried that for the first time, that was when I was like, this is, this is something that I want to do, you know, every day for the rest of my life because it was that, it was that good.

I'm actually going to go back a little bit. Okay. So there's a couple of things that happened when I was younger. There was a, my dad's old babysitter, lived in Southern Virginia. And we used to go down there, you know, and visit him. and then my grandparents who lived in Charlottesville on the weekends. And so there was a couple times where I would stay over at his house overnight. And things would get kind of, you know, they'd get kind of crazy at the house.

Like he'd offer me beer. He'd let me smoke cigarettes. And I'm like, you know, 10, 11 years old. And, you know, he ended up, you know, molesting me a couple times. Your father? No, my dad's old babysitter. Oh, okay. He was a family friend.

Okay. I thought you were, I thought, I thought babysitter. I thought a woman. So when you said, right, right. Yeah. So he was, you know, he was like in his, you know, mid-60s, mid-70s, you know, and he was a close, he was a close family friend. I mean, this isn't someone that I just met like off the bat. But it was something that sort of happened over and over, over a long period of time. You know, it wasn't like the first time I went over that this happened. Right. And so that sort of shifted my attitude towards, you know, myself and then just other like figures and power, you know. Yeah, I was going to say it just, adults in power when you're a kid or adults in general when you're a kid you think of them as being you know that they know everything that they don't make mistakes that they're infallible right you don't have that you don't realize that hey they're some of these are bad people some of these do bad people do bad things you know you don't really can you don't really realize until something bad

happens exactly you put them you know on a pedestal and it's just like they're sort of uh you know they can't do they can't do anything wrong it's like your parents you think your parents are all knowing until you become an adult and you're like oh this is just a couple of fucking They're just people. Yeah. They're just people. Exactly. So that happened a couple times over the course of a couple years.

I also started, when my parents got divorced, I started hanging out with my dad a lot more, you know, alone. And we started drinking and smoking together. He wouldn't necessarily buy me like alcohol or cigarettes. But if I had them, it was kind of like I was allowed to drink at his apartment, you know, or whatever we were doing. Right. We used to go to a lot of, like, music shows. And, you know, he was, I mean, he was a wonderful, wonderful person, but it was, there wasn't any, like, barrier between, like, what, you know, I should be doing as a kid and what I

should be doing as an adult. Yeah, yeah. So that kind of blurred the lines. And so that was really tough, you know, for me because, you know, when you're allowed to do anything as a kid and you don't have someone telling you that it's bad, you just assume that everyone else is doing it and that it's okay. And so that also started sort of. allowing me, I was starting to be able to get away with a lot of different, you know,

different things as a kid that most parents would, you know, they wouldn't fucking let that shit happen at all. Right. So that was kind of, you know, there was, you know, I didn't realize until years later how sort of dysfunctional. Right. Because when you're a kid, you know, and all my friends, you know, would come over and, you know, do the same thing.

So we always thought that that shit was super cool. But, um, so, yeah, oxycotton at 17. Um, you know, this was really when it hit everywhere. Yeah, yeah. You know, so all my friends were doing it. Pill mills. Yeah, everyone was doing it. Um, you know, D.C., there was a Purdue pharma had a headquarters in D.C.

So there was tons and tons of people that had scripts because I had surgery on my knee at 15. I had MRIs. You know, I didn't have to fake anything. Uh, it wasn't Virginia, D.C. and Maryland, um, were a little bit stricter with the prescriptions so you couldn't necessarily doctor shop as much right just like say Florida um but it was still very very you know easy to get you know and so for me it wasn't very difficult to support the habit at that point you know because everyone has them and you know we trade scripts and you know if I was running short I could go to someone and say hey let me get you know 50 till next week you know

all this different kind of stuff so um i moved to atlanta georgia to go to school and i guess it was 2008 i wanted to be a sound engineer um so i went to a small small sound recording school there um that's sort of when i started dealing to support my habit because i was in school so i met a bunch of people there you know and we were sort of doing the same thing i would just you know go get scripts from the doctor, you get, you know, Oxycontin 80s, you know, you get perk 30s, roxies, you know, a bunch of somas, Xanax, you know, so you could go to one doctor and get, you know, seven, eight hundred pills. Yeah, yeah, worth $3,000, you know. Exactly. So it was, it was very easy to, you know, support my, to support the habit at that point. Um, so I get through school

and I end up going to, uh, rehab in Delray, Delray beach for like six months. Um, that's sort of when I started to learn, I guess, about fraud, um, because I wasn't able to, I didn't really have any connects down here. You know, I was in a halfway house. Um, I was trying to do good. So I didn't really have any money at that point. And, you were in a halfway house? Yeah. Did I miss something? Oh, I went to rehab in Florida. Okay. In, uh, 2000, I guess it was the end of 2012. Okay. And so that's when I learned about fraud. But what, what led up? to that. I mean, I'm interested in your, like, did you go to your mom and she was like, look,

you got to probably, I mean, what? So, okay. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. You just checked in. I mean, no, no. So I was at work and they realized that I had some sort of problem. And they were like, we'll give you, you know, because I was showing up late for work. You know, I was looking strung out. So they were like, we'll give you, you know, like 90 days to, you know, 90 days to get yourself better. And so I was like, okay, well, I'm going to try to get to a, get to a rehab. And so there was a place in, it was in Deerfield, Deerfield Beach. Okay.

And so, you know, I ended up going there. And so I ended up staying down there because I felt like if I had just gone back to, you know, to work immediately in that environment that I would have started using again. Start using again because it's very, you know, the music industry, it's not necessarily that

everyone's doing those kinds of drugs, but it's a constant party. I mean, sometimes you're in the studio for 18, you know, 24 hours at a time. and you know people are drinking smoking you know doing other things but it just uh for me personally it made the job you know a much easier because it was less stressful and it just allowed me to oh for some reason when i do opiates it gives me a lot of energy um so it allowed me to sort of you know continue to you know sort of try to work through all this stuff right um so i went to

Deerfield and then to a halfway house in Delray briefly. And that's when I learned about fraud because other people that were living there were sort of doing like check kiting. Some people were doing these tax return scams. And so I didn't, you know, this isn't anything that I did yet. But I was like, okay, so this is possible, you know, because, you know, when you have a halfway household kids, everyone's trying to do, do as much. know dirt as they can to get money because you know most people they don't not really work

in yeah yeah they don't yeah um so when i was in del ray actually my dad ended up getting in a car accident he was hit by a drunk driver at about 65 miles an hour and in another car he was in another car so he got t-boned he was making a left-hand turn and a drunk driver hit him uh and he actually went through the passenger side window oh so uh this was in charlotte ville, Virginia. So he was in UVA hospital. I got a phone call when I was down in Del Rey. And so I ended up flying, you know, back home. And they pretty much said he was in a coma for like almost nine months. And so they were pretty much like he's not, he's not going to survive. And so I ended up getting high and relapsing over this. Right. So, you know, I'm back in, you know, the D.C.

D.C. area. They moved him from UVA hospital to a hospice center down there. I don't remember the name. And so it was pretty much me and my sister just trying to figure out how we were going to navigate this. And so I just started, you know, using pills again. Where's your mom? So she's, I mean, she's up in the D.C. area, but she, unfortunately, she just really wasn't, wasn't part of part of all that. Right. You know, I mean, she would. How old were you? Uh, so, I must have been, I was like 22, 21 or 22. Okay. 21 or 22.

So, you know, it was very difficult to navigate that. I just, we didn't really know what to do. And so my, my first, you know, instinct is to just get high out rate. Right. And so I start getting high again. You know, we're trying to figure out what to do. And I just, I needed to leave again. And so I decided that I was going to go to another,

treatment center and go to another treatment center in Las Vegas, Nevada. Okay. So I don't really know why I chose to go to Vegas. Yeah, I was going to say, how did that come about? It honestly, it wasn't really, it wasn't really a conscious decision. It was more of a, I had a friend who worked in the, you know, recovery industry and they're like, well, this new treatment center is out here in Las Vegas, you know, and we can get you in with the type of insurance that you had at the time.

So I was like, all right, well, I'm just going to go go here, you know, and see, and see what happens. I just need to get away from everything, you know. Um, so I moved to Las Vegas, go to this treatment center and get out and move into a halfway house. And this is sort of where my whole fraud, uh, career sort of started. Um, so we move into this halfway house. It's like 10 guys, there's enough room for 10 guys and 10 girls. Um, so I ended up meeting, uh, the owner of the halfway house. And we started seeing each. other, which is super dysfunctional. But I ended up becoming a manager of this halfway house. So I had access to all this personal information. And so this is when I sort of realized that I could start

using people's information, you know, socials, you know, mothers made names and whatnot to get credit cards. Right. So I applied for my first credit card when I was at this halfway house. And so that sort of set me up to see like how the system works. Right. What can I do? You know, and this was, you know, back in 2013. So things were much easier back then than they, you know, sort of than they are now. And so I was able to, you know, when you sign up for a halfway house, usually you have to give.

I mean, you don't have to, but, you know, an ID, you know, your last known address. Sometimes some of them give, you know, social security numbers and stuff like that. it was also a federally funded halfway house so people that were getting out to go to drug court would give um you know their personal information you know birth certificates socials you know driver's licenses and stuff like that so i would literally just go online and apply to all these different credit card companies get the cards in the mail and because i was the manager i was just able to get all the mail go through it and then take out what i needed you know right what i what you know, was theirs. And so for me, that was like, that was the pivotal moment where I was like,

this is what I'm going to do to support, you know, my drug habit. This is it for me. This is it. You know, it was so simple in my mind that I was like, this is what I'm going to do. And so I started learning all sorts of different scams. I started learning about, you know, checks, magnetic ink, check stock, driver's licenses. Most companies, they like to use. used faxes back then. So for like the ABS, the address verification systems, I was able to fax these, you know, the documents necessary to the certain credit card companies if they're like, oh, well, we need to talk to the homeowner or we need to, you know, do some sort of verification system to make sure that you are actually this person. Right. You know, and so

for me it was very easy to, you know, either doctor them or you just take templates of, you know, a social security card, you know, a birth certificate, and then, you know, sometimes they also need a driver's license as well, and then fax those over, and then you can change either their address or actually just get the card shipped to whatever address, you know, you were at. Right. So that, you know, lasted for a couple, you know, a couple years. You know, I was in Vegas for almost, I guess almost four years. And you worked at the, at the, um, so I was working treatment place the whole time i was working as a manager of a half the halfway house the halfway house yeah um the girl that i was dating she was i mean she was the manager she um you know she was also

you know a drug addict and so we ended up relapsing together throughout this whole process you know that's that's ridiculous is like you know the uh the the inmates are running the asylum you know right right i mean so that was the first time i did she know you were doing the credit card thing yeah so um that was the first time i tried meth uh when i was out in Las Vegas, I sort of switched from, from opiates to meth, uh, on the West Coast. It's just, it's very, it's almost just, you know, it's like opiates here on the East coast. Met out on the West Coast is just, just rampant. So that's when I tried meth for the first time. And, you know, it fueled all these negative, you know, behaviors, you know,

I started gambling, you know, I started drinking. Fraud obviously became, you know, sort of the forefront of, you know, my activities. Can I say, well, what happened with your dad in the meantime? Did he pass away? So he actually did not pass away from the car accident. No, he, he actually didn't pass away till 2020 from COVID. Okay. But it took him about three years to get out of hospice. Wow. Yeah, it was a long, it was a very long time. It was a really long time. He ended up going to a home, you know, like an assisted living facility for people with brain injuries.

So that was, you know, again, that was something that always, you know, when I would go home or, you know, have to take care of them for a while. So that was, that was really tough, you know, on me and my sister. That was really tough on me and my sister. So I started using meth, you know, full time. You said you were gambling. Yeah. I mean, Vegas brings out every negative behavior you can possibly think of and especially fueled by meth. So I showed her how to do, you know, the credit card fraud.

And she had, you know, documents from every person that had been, like, in this house. Right. You know, so, I mean, you have access to hundreds of people's, you know, information. And so we were just, you know, filling out these forms, you know, online or through the mail, and then getting the cards and going and cashing them out. There was actually one time I had bought, we had, she was, she had a dealer's license to get cars, you know, through the, through the county. And we bought like an old 19, 2000.

eight cop car. She bought a Malibu and there was one other car and I got pulled over in this cop car on the second day I had it. Right. And I had a folder that had like nine social security cards first certificates under the seat. And the cops were like, how do you, why do you have all this information? And I explained to him that I was the owner of a halfway house and that that's why I had all these these informations and they actually let me, they let me go. Which I thought was just like absolutely. I mean, it makes sense, you know? Like they're not, you know, like they're not, you know, You know? Yeah. I mean, it's just, it was just crazy to me that, you know, you have all this personal information, you know, in a brand new, you know, old cop car. And they're just like, yeah, yeah, it's okay. Go for it. And how old were you? Uh, it was 23. Okay. 23 or 24. Yeah. That's a little odd. Yeah. You know, um, so yeah, I mean, in Vegas, we pretty much started doing credit card fraud. Uh, there was also a huge, uh, the tax, tax fraud scam was, uh, huge out there. Um, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't really personally,

do that. I was more about making checks. So I learned how to get a magnetic ink printer and then get payroll checks and then print them, you know, either my name or other people's names and go have them, you know, cash, cash them out. Do you know, sorry, do you know what the pay or the tax scam is? Yeah. Can you explain it? I was going to ask that. Yeah. Yeah, the tax scam for Colby's purpose is that what they do is you get someone's information and then you file taxes for that person before they file them. So you file them, you get their return, maybe direct deposited onto a debit card or something like that. And so you end up getting $4,500, $3,500 or you know, whatever, $6,500. The information doesn't even need to be correct. But the IRS doesn't

have time to process everybody's tax refund. So the moment you say, hey, I need $6,000, as long as it's not over a certain amount, they immediately just give you the money. They'll figure it out later. Of course, when that person goes to file, they say, well, you've already received your return. And then it sparks a whole identity theft. Oh, this was identity theft. And then they have to jump through all these hoops, which you get the $3,500 or $6,500, whatever you end up filing for. Right. Sometimes they don't even have to have, like, you don't even have to know what job they were on anything so yeah you get the money now and then you know whatever happens later but they just they figure it out later right you're gone right so it was huge maybe there was a time

there was a 10 year period of time where literally people were filing on children social security I mean any anytime you even filed the IRS which just cut you it yet and it slowly started they started clamping down on it yeah it's it was at a point where you could get like let's say you filed 10 of them you could probably get seven or eight of them back and then over time um you know and like i think it was like 2016 or 2017 you might if you filed 10 you might get like two right to at best yeah yeah they and then they started giving out the pin number you know where they had to do the pin numbers yeah so they would send you a pin number in the mail um or sometimes if you did it online and you were able to pass the um whatever the verification

security questions um you know they'd uh issued the pin you know over online but yeah that that that scam got got really, really difficult. So I sort of wanted to cut all that out. And so I was like, well, I'm going to figure out how checks work. Right. Just, you know, payroll checks, personal checks, whatever. How are you cashing those, though? Are you giving them to people to cash? Or are you going into your bank account cashing them? So I, well, I first started doing it with with bank accounts that I had, but in little amounts, like small amounts to see if it worked just to overdraft the account and then see how, you know, see how it worked first. Then I figured out a lot of places under a certain amount you can go in like uh grocery stores Walmart uh you can go in

with payroll checks and they will cash them if it's under you know a certain amount sometimes you can get higher limit checks with those but they'll have to call the bank which you can also you know get around that by using you know one of these spoofing apps or whatever right but um i would just print them for for other people they would deposit them into you know the account clear they would take the money out give me a percentage and then keep whatever you know let's say the check was for you know eighteen hundred dollars or two thousand dollars you know i would keep you know 1500 and they would get you know five 500 you know and they're drug addicts of five quick 500 bucks yeah it was it was really it was pretty easy you know i didn't really even have

to recruit people because you know everyone as long as for me you know especially in drug addiction as long as i can get you know the drugs or the money first and deal with the consequences later, then I'm okay with it. Right. You know, especially when I'm in active use, you know, like I, I don't really care about the consequences when I'm in active use as long as I can, you know, get high first. So, you know, in a halfway house, the turnover rates are super quick usually, you know. I mean, most people, at least at the place I was living at, you know, a month, two months,

three months at best. There's a couple of us that were, you know, in this house for, you know, longer than six months to a year, but things would always, you know, happen. People would either move out, we'd back in with their girlfriend, wife, you know, get a new job, move, relapse, go back to rehab, you know, whatever it was. So that's when I started learning, you know, how to print checks. And I really like doing payroll checks because most places you didn't have to do any sort of verification. Like, as long as you had an ID that, you know, matched that, you know, matched that check they could they could cash on the spot right um i met a guy in Vegas who also uh started making ideas and he was the one that sort of taught me about

uh you know actual credit like readers and writers for credit card fraud like tracks one tracks two tracks three right uh this was before the emv chip cards so dumps are classified there's different uh number uh classification numbers for dumps so a regular card is 101 and then a chip card is 201 that's sort of like the classification for right for for cards and so 101 dumps were much easier to to get at the time and so you could get them and then reimboss them you know track two on a card and then go and spend them pretty much anywhere you know uh there were also times where you could get debit cards with you know the pin and then you could go you know cash that out at an ATM i mean those were a

lot more those were a lot more expensive and harder to get so most of them it was just you know you're just you know swiping it you know wherever grocery stores sometimes we would cash them out and buy gift cards and then take the gift cards and go you know get those for cash you get like 70 70 to 80 percent in cash for those um so we started doing that uh in about 20 i guess it was 2015 uh she ended up getting the house her house rated twice uh for drugs and fraud and she ended up going to i think she got three and a half years in prison but you weren't living i wasn't no i was at the halfway house yeah yeah i was gonna say this is her private residence yeah this is her house uh so she ended up uh you know

getting arrested i think she had she was in a stolen car she had like eight thousand dollars in cash uh you know like an ounce of meth something like that you know just uh Train wreck. Just doomed. Yeah. Dumed. So she ended up going to prison. Did you wait for her?

You put money on her books, come visit her. I had absolutely waited for her. No. No, actually, I'll be there for you. I tried. You know what? We had, we put up, she had, actually ended up having like six properties that were all, most of them were like halfway, well, there was one halfway house.

And the other properties were apartments that were usually rented to, like, like sober, some people in the sober community. And she's managing all these? She didn't own them. She just, no, well, she technically owned them. I mean, they weren't paid off. But she actually owned these properties, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, she owned these properties. She was, she was a real estate, you know, she got her real estate license. And I guess in 2008, the Vegas market crashed like crazy. So she was picking up all these, you know, properties and whatnot. Right. Her house gets raided. She goes to, goes to jail. I had to put up, me and her best, another friend, Steve, put up three of those properties

and two cars to get her, to get her bail. Okay. So she did get out for a little bit, and then she got, you know, she ended up going back. There was a couple of people she was running with that were, like, brutal. I mean, they were just, you know, they were not good people. All right. You know, they were, they were dangerous people. She ended up, uh,

She ended up getting caught with the stolen car and going back after, you know, being out. So she got caught in another stolen car and ended up going back to, back to jail. So it was kind of like, all right, there's nothing I can do here with that. Right. So I ended up flying back home to D.C. after this happened and, you know, checking on my dad. I was staying with a good friend of mine. I was there for like six months and then flew back to Las Vegas and was started living. in her house actually so i was living in her house and this is when i actually saw counterfeit bills for the first

time um there was a guy who was associated with uh her who started who started making them and the first time i ever saw counterfeit bill i was i was blown away i mean it had the security strip it had the watermark you know it was right color color it was right texture um and so i was i was blown blown away by this so i don't understand how does that happen like i mean you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you're saying that he was associated with her like one like is this a friend of hers one day he comes over he says hey i got to show you something yeah so essentially he came he came over he was like you know in the meth world right so he came over to deliver a bag one day and he had a whole he had a whole stack of them it was you know i don't know let's say five you know like five

thousand dollars or something like that he had a whole stack of them and so you know he's showing us because he's you know kind of showing them he's like yeah check these out you know this is this this is this so you know you hold it up and you're you know you're looking at it and you're tilting it and like I mean it you know at the time I also didn't know anything about you know bills right you know most people they just you know see a bill and they just assume you know that it's legit yeah you know so you know I'm looking at it I'm like wow this is like this is amazing you know this is this is incredible and so that really sparked my my fascination with with bills um so I get a printer I learn about you know cotton linen paper you know the security threads you know

how money is actually made with offset, you know, presses and taglier presses. And so I actually start just, I get cotton one, 20 pound cotton linen paper from Southworth paper from, you know, staples and just started printing the front and backs of bills just to see, you know, the quality.

Right. Of the bill, you know, see if you can actually get something, you know, at face value that, that would pass. It didn't work. It was, it was,

know, they were terrible. They were really bad. It was very difficult to get anything. Cotton linen paper is very porous. It's not like regular laser jet paper. So it was very difficult to get a, you know, a very clear image on a regular, you know, inkjet printer. So I was like, how am I going to figure out how to get paper that also feels like, you know, money paper? So, you know, I start experimenting with all different, you know, I try to newsprint. I tried wrapping paper. I tried, you know, rice paper. You know, I tried all these different papers. And nothing really worked. So I went online, you know, on the, I went online and just typed in, you know, cotton linen, cotton linen newsprint. And this was when Ali Express sort of started, you know, getting kind of big. And so instead of having minimum order quantities, you could order, you know, like a ream, like 500 sheets of paper instead of having to order. you know, 20,000 from these from these massive right companies so I'm like how let's see how this is going to go so I do I type in 36 or 40 GSM cotton linen paper and a company came up

in China and there was like 500 cheats for I think it was like 87 bucks or something like that so I order this paper and you know get it in the mail and I was like okay this is I think this is perfect, you know? And so I start printing and it starts getting stuck in the printer. You know, it's like you're trying to run it through the printer and it's just, it's not, it's not working. It's coming out blurry. So I messaged the company back and said, do you have anything that's a little bit, you know, a little bit thicker that would run through an inkjet printer? And so they're like, yeah, we have 45 GSM, you know, cotton, linen paper. And I was like, okay, this is great. So I ordered another ream of that. And instead of running the single sheets through,

I was like, I'm going to, you know, blew them together, you know, let them dry out and then run them through the printer front, you know, front and back. And so that ended up working. And so I was like, all right, well, this is it still the same, is it the same, it's not the same thickness as regular paper, though, is it? No, it's very thin. It's, uh, it's like news, it's like newsprint. Okay. Yeah, it's about the, about the same size as new print. So I was like, I'm going to sandwich, you know, there's two pieces sandwich together. Right. So the, the, the, the back, sheet is going to have you know the strip on one side the watermark on another and then I'm going to glue those together to make you know one sheet of paper and then you know run it

through run the back through print the image print the image and then run the front through and then you know the serial numbers and the seal right and then to get the to get the the strip to glow the iron ink I would use a UV pen okay a UV pen like a pink cuby pen I would get like a you know a ruler and just run it down the whole sheet where the where the strip was and so that way if they checked you know it lights up yeah yeah so at first I was I didn't really know what to do about the um the the 100 in the corner so I was playing around with there's um OVI so it's optically variable ink right in the right hand corner for and these are the glitter it looks like kind of like glittery glitter yeah these are the so

these are the old hundreds these are not the the the new hundreds with the the blue stripping them right um so yeah it looks like glitter and so i was like trying to use uh these like unibal pens like you can get these clear uh sort of glitter pens right and so i was using the clear glitter pens at first and then i actually found a an eye shadow i don't remember the the the brand but there was an eye shadow and i would use a small cutip and dip it in the the eye shadow and then trace you know the 100 um the 100 also has it's a it's a very there it's raised a little bit the most difficult thing to to reproduce was to actually like get the 100 to be raised so i would use a toothbrush and use mage pod and dip the toothbrush in the

mage pod and then you know sort of yeah just just get it on in the corner um so this this took a really long time for me to figure out because even with the paper it wasn't really it wasn't working good enough well enough to pass because you also had the um you have the marker you know the the it's a iodine pen and it detects starch in the paper and so it wasn't passing passing the paper test or the uh the pen test right so i go back online and i'm trying to figure out which company has security paper. And so I ended up finding a company that had, they had check stock, check paper. They could make, they can make watermarks. Like if you had a specific watermark for the paper, they could watermark the paper. It was starch free. It was UV dull. So it would

pass the pen test. And then if you put it under a black light, it wouldn't glow whites because regular regular paper when you put it under a black light glows white it's really it's really bright it's very noticeable that it's a counterfeit you know a counterfeit bill so you want something that's UV dull and so I messaged them and said hey guys like do you have happen to have anything between 36 you know and 45 GSM they send you a message back saying we're not going to help you make they said dollar bills right right it was It was insane. They were like, yeah, we have that. You know, we have that. And so, you know, they don't, they don't think anything of it. I didn't even have to tell them a backstory. It wasn't even like, oh, I worked for, you know, some sort of creative, you know, company, you know, literally just email them. And that, you know, four days later, they're like, they're like, yeah, like what, what, what, you know, how much do you want? You know, well, what's the, what's the smallest amount you can order? It's usually, usually a ream, which is, you know, 500, 500 sheets. So I'm like, This is, you know, this is, this is awesome.

Where is that company? Is that a, a U.S.-based company, or is this still from China? No, it's still from China. They ended up opening up, this is years later. At the time, it was all from China. Like, they did open up distribution companies in the U.S., but this was years later. So, you know, you would have to order this and then, you know, it's D.A. Usually, I paid D.HL.

You know, you're waiting, you know, sometimes seven to 21 days, you know, for this order. But the smallest amount I could order was about, was about 500 sheets. Right. So while I'm sort of researching and sort of perfecting these bills, I ended up moving to St. Augustine. So this, you know, I was in Las Vegas. And so once she ended up going to prison, sort of shit hit the fan, you know, just in that in the whole world that I was in everyone was just either you know getting arrested or they were just out of control you know everything was just it was just out of

control and so I was like well I'm going to try to get get get out of here and so I ended up moving to North Florida right and this is where I sort of learned to perfect the perfect the bills so I'm living you know I'm just simple life I'm just surfing, working, trying to, you know, get off drugs. I was like, if I go somewhere new, I can get away from all this, you know, bullshit. But I'm still trying to figure out how to make these bills. And so I ended up, you know, ordering the correct paper. And I, this time, instead of using like basic ink jets, I got a couple laser jet printers and then some, some nicer like a canon 9500 mark two it's like a 10 ink jet pigment system and then i started to

learn about different kinds of ink dyes like there's pigment ink and dye ink so dye ink uh saturates the paper a little bit more than pigment ink pigment ink sits on top of the paper um so because the sheets are so thin a lot of times when you're printing on the front or back it it bleeds through okay you know and so that was one of the biggest problems i was having was you know getting the ink to to settle properly on the paper because the paper's so thin that certain uh certain printers would just bleed bleed straight through even if it you know was the correct uh correct with it would just bleed straight through all right um so i ordered order this paper get the paper um start printing, you know, the inside sheet, which is the strip watermark, uh, started printing the front

on the first piece of paper and then the back on the sheet that has the, the watermark and strip. And then I would take a table, like a glass table, and then spray, uh, some sort of, you know, it was just, uh, spray glue. Sometimes it was like an adhesive. Yeah, yeah, just, you know, spray adhesive. Then I would line those up and then take a credit card and then, uh, get all the ink bubbles out to make it smooth. And so I'm taking this and just going like this, you know, to get everything smooth and then letting it dry. And then I would get a roller trimmer and, you know, line up the edges of the paper and then use a roller trimmer and cut the bills to size. I was usually printing three, you know, three per page, three hundredths, you know, per two sheets.

Right. And so once I figured out how to make them properly, I was like, well, how am I going to use these? You know, how am I going to actually make money off this? Alpha Bay was the most popular, was the biggest Darknet site at the time from 2016 to I think they got shut down. Well, they didn't start in 2016, but I found Alpha Bay in 2016. So I got on the darknet and sort of set up a profile, you know, just a user profile. I wasn't a vendor yet. So I sent up a user profile and, you know, sort of learned about cryptocurrency, the vendor bonds,

how you did encrypted chats to get people's, you know, order information or sender information. And so I was like, well, this is going to be the perfect opportunity to, you know, sell these online. There were two other dark net vendors who sold $100 bills. There was another guy who just sold 20s, but it was a pretty, you know, niche market, you know. There wasn't, it wasn't saturated, like, you know, the drug market and sort of the credit card fraud market was saturated with, you know, tons and tons and tons and tons of vendors. So it was pretty easy, you know, to distinguish yourself from the rest of... For the two other guys. From the two other guys.

Um, so I ended up doing a promotion. So I, I, I put on my profile that I, for like five, for the, for the price of shipping, I would send out, you know, two free bills to whoever, you know, wanted to try them as long as they, you know, left, uh, an honest review. Right. Have you tried it yet? Have you actually gone out and tried to spend some of the first, the first time I tried them? I went to a dollar general and I used four of them. So I bought, $400 bills. Yeah. So I got two, uh, two prepaid visa gift cards. So 200 on one, 200 on the other. And they passed. They passed. Okay. They passed. No problem.

They hit them with the pen. They didn't do the machine. That's the only thing that it can't pass is that they put it into a bill validator. Right. But they just did, they marked the pen. She checked the light. And then she put it back in the drawer and was like, you know, here you go. So I was like, all right, this is, this is legit.

The reason why I didn't really start using them full time myself is because I was living in a small town. and I also from a couple friends who had tried to use them in the past, you usually get caught pretty quickly. Okay. Like when I was in the bank, they figure it out, they trace it all the way back next thing you know. They're looking at cameras. Right.

Like when I was like when I was in Las Vegas, for instance, the guy that showed me the counterfeit bills for the first time, you know, he started using them at all sorts of shops and buying little items like, you know, packs of gum, a soda. and going into these, you know, corner stores and getting change. And, you know, after a couple weeks, they were, they, they caught him. They caught up to him pretty, pretty quickly. I watched a video where they talking about the most successful counterfeiter, um, in U.S. history was this guy who, wife had no idea.

Um, kids had no idea. He said he was a salesman. He had like a whole like a bunch of luggage that he sold like, whatever it was. He was selling, you know, pots and pans, whatever. Like had a whole thing that kept in his car. His wife thought that's what he did. And he literally traveled all year round. And he had a circuit where he went from mall to mall to mall to mall.

So he didn't re-hit that mall for another year. Right. So he actually moved around. Constantly. And so the Secret Service was like, this guy has been doing. But they kept showing up at the same, roughly the same time periods, the bills that he was moving. Right. And they weren't huge.

You know, they were like 50s. And this was back in like the early 80s. And they were like, but they keep showing up. And then eventually they came and that they also knew they were the same bills. You know, they'll start, they'll start, they put them in a file. They realize the same imperfection, the same, right, same, you know, because he's only using five or ten different, serial numbers. Serial numbers.

Yeah. So what does it matter? He's, nobody's checking them, you know, until it's too late. Right. So eventually they came in and they did a. a whole, what do you call it, a regional thing where they tracked the whole thing and they could see, you know, sometimes it varied slightly, but not much. Right. And so they went one time and they just, they would sit on that mall for two weeks with like, you know, 15 guys. And they went around

the whole, everybody in the mall said, this is what we're looking for. This is what's happening. This is the guy should be here anytime. So they were there waiting for him. For him to make the round. And eventually they caught him, but they tracked him. They found him. I think they pulled him over like a gas station or something or they he was in his car or something they watched him for a while wow and they pulled up on him and he had like a suitcase was like a couple hundred thousand dollars in in counterfeit bills counterfeit bills and he'd been doing it for whatever 10 15 years and they were talking about how you know they were the most he was the most successful you know not not that he had moved that much money but that he'd done it for so long right you know and the thing is the

bills weren't even the best bills he's like they were like they weren't they're not even the best bills we've ever seen. They were like they were the fact that what bothered us is he's been doing it for over a decade and we can't catch him. And they said we never would have caught him if we hadn't if he had varied. If he'd actually switched his switch his route up. Right. They said if he changed it every year or two, he said, but he didn't. He was so, you know, he had his little routine and the places he liked to stay and this was his job. This was his life. Right. Yeah, I was going to say because, you know, like North Korea, they have like super notes that are identical. You can't. So I've, always wanted to see one of those super notes i've read about them but uh yeah apparently i think they

made like well supposedly like 250 350 million dollars of the super notes super notes or more but apparently they're just absolutely perfect yeah they're just absolutely perfect so north korea you know actually i met a guy who uh where i'm i'm gonna interview former cia guy uh but he was talking he's talking about like 80 i think he said like 80 percent of north korea's um their GDP, right, or their, but whatever, their, sorry, their budget is based on the North Koreans. They actually have teams of guys working in North Korea to do cryptocurrency scams, credit cards, like that's just how they're making all their money. And they also, they have supernotes where they've actually got a little plant set up that makes like $50 and $100,

U.S. $100 bills, and they'll take them and they'll fly around Asia and they'll just spend them doing stuff like buying, you know, whatever, you're buying whatever so you can get 80 bucks back, 70 bucks back, 95 dollars back. And then they're dumping them into bank accounts and they're reshift or re-sending that money back to North Korea. So they're running scams using counterfeiting U.S. dollars and spending them. And sometimes they'll get them in the U.S. And they'll just spend them to get more money and bring it back into North Korea.

So the notes are indistinguishable. They're absolutely perfect. Yeah, I think, I can't remember what the flaw is. You have to see it. It's like with a microscope. Yeah, or not a microscope. They're not going to catch it. The cashier's not catching it.

Right, no. The banks aren't barely even catching it. Like, they don't even know how many they've caught. It's kind of like, what's his name, Jeff Turner came here. He was like, you know, based on the amount of money that he had circulated, he's like, in the amount of money that came back, he's like, I think a lot of the notes were never, caught, you know, or caught years later after they've circulated through. He's like, because some of them I'm spending and they're never, they never asked me about this town or this when I did

this or when it did this. He says, so the notes must have gone through through the system. Right. Right. Yeah, once they hit the bank, I mean, you know, it's changed hands. It could have possibly changed hands. How do you track a map? 20, 20 times by the time it hits, it hits the bank. It was going to say, not that the Secret Service won't spend $100,000 to try and catch somebody who's moved a thousand dollars in fake notes because they'll they'll spend a hundred thousand dollars absolutely of the of the government's money to catch somebody who's passed the thousand dollars like what did you like what did you do they yeah they'll stop they'll really stop at nothing right if they get their sights on you um i mean art williams you know oh yeah so before

i should have started this again uh before but so art williams was a super famous counterfeiter he wrote a book so i started reading about you know different counterfeiter The art of money? The art of money, yeah. So I started reading about different counterfeiters to sort of see what, you know, what worked and what didn't. And so the easiest, it seemed like the easiest way to get rid of, you know, counterfeit money was to sell it in, you know, bulk for, you know, 15 to 20% of the face value. So if you're selling, you know, if it's a thousand bucks, you're making like, you're, you know, 250. Oh, selling it for 20 or 30%.

Okay. I thought you were in a discount of, okay. Well, and yeah, if you're selling it in bulk, like, so if you're selling it, like, I sold a box in like 1,000 and 5,000. And so 1,000 was 250 U.S. dollars, or, you know, cryptis at a time when I was using, you know, Bitcoin on the dark net. But so I started reading about all these different counterfeiters to try to figure out what, you know, what was going to work and what didn't.

And so I was like, well, I don't really want to, if I keep spending them myself, then they'll probably catch up to me pretty quickly. Right. And so... That's how you ended up on the dark web. That's how I ended up on the dark web. So what happened with the reviews? So I sent, I think I did 10 of, about 10 of them, 10 or 12, you know, packs and came back

and 80% of the reviews were positive. There was a couple people that didn't, you know, they were like, oh, they didn't pass, but they look good, but they didn't pass for whatever reason. And so, you know, I, you know, I was, I was, I was okay with that, you know, I was like, this is, this is, this is fine. I mean, the two other guys on, uh, the dark net, I ended up actually ordering bills from them to, to compare. You're right. Um, one guy was, they were, they were really good. You know, I don't really know what paper he was using, but it was very, very similar to, uh, newsprint size paper.

Um, you know, that for me, that was. That was the most difficult step was, you know, finding the right paper and making them the right thickness. Right. Because, you know, printers, they can do a pretty good, a pretty good job of replicating, you know, the images. I also used Photoshop to clean up the images. Right. So, you know, I would import them into Photoshop. and then I also used

something called a RASER imaging processor printing program. So that allowed me to change certain dynamics that you wouldn't be able to change with, say, like a regular computer program. Right. I was able to change the size, the DPI.

I could actually clean up, you know, the images with, you know, these, you know, what essentially would be like an eraser or bold or contrast. And so it was able, I was able to make the image look a lot better than if I had just say, photocopied it or just scanned it, you know, in a scanner and then printed it through the printer itself. So it was, you know, there was a lot of trial and trial and error. Did you think about trying to get an Antalio press? I mean, so are they just super, they're well, they're super expensive. They're super, they're super, they're super, super expensive. Um, there was one, there's one called an AB Dick, uh, 260, I think that was pretty popular. I read about a story about a guy in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. I don't remember his name, but they printed, I think, $100 million in counterfeit bills using an offset press.

There was a guy in Canada who had done it, too. Frank Peruso. Yeah, insane. Frank Peruso. This is, like, these presses, one, they're huge. I don't know how big his was. And I went to the Fine Arts College at USF. And I mean, the printer is, it's size of this table, and it's got, you know, it's got the

rollers, it's got the whole thing, the machine, you've got to crank the whole thing. I mean, it's outrageous, but it's a plate. And I mean, when it puts it on there, like, it's amazing, like the detail that you get. And of course, it'll penetrate it. It's, they're absolutely, I mean, they're incredible. But they're also like a hundred thousand dollars for like the, because that's what I remember, that's the thing that the guy was telling. Listen, he was, they were very, the, the, um, professors were very specific. They're like, listen, this is a hundred thousand dollar you know like don't put don't get cute and think you're gonna run some piece of metal through it or hey i'm gonna try and see what it'll do if it i put a what was it um like they had somebody one

time put like a a nail what it would do if i put a nail through it well it'll it'll it'll ruin it for one thing it's gonna have to replace a pin that's gonna cost you know 20 grand you know like he was like do not like they were like that's how expensive this thing is like you can hurt it yeah I mean it was you know I mean of course it's something I looked at but there was I mean there was no way. I mean, and then you have to find a place to put it. Uh, I heard the ink is, you know, very, has a very strong, you know, odor. So it's, so it's, you know, you're not really if you're, I mean, it's oil. It's like oil, you know, it's right. Yeah, it's super potent oil. Right. So if you're, if you're, if you're in a house somewhere or an apartment and

you're, you know, that's just, that's just not going to work. Yeah. Um, so I ended up using three different printers, uh, and two laptops. So I was able to do, uh, like the watermark and strip, you know, on one printer. And then, you know, when those were finished, I was able to use the second printer to do like the front and the back. So I was able to sort of speed the process up because the most difficult part about printing bills is, you know, waiting for everything to dry because if you run it through too soon, it'll bleed through, or at least with the paper that I was using. So you sort of have to, you know, print one, let it sit and then, you know, print the print the others right so i started using the darknet um alpha bay that was that was very successful for me

you know they they place orders online using cryptocurrency uh they send an encrypted message with your you know whatever name and address they're using you know you decode the message you get whatever they're they're ordering send the pack out and then two to four days later you know the money's released drives you know they have to go online and then uh yeah release release the funds um so i did that from 2016 to about uh it was july 5th of 2017 alpha bay got shut down by the uh you know secrets there is a there's a ton of every agency out there those fuckers every agency out there um bitcoin was about 20 i think was 2260 or something around about $2,260 at the time. I had about $40, I think it was $44,000 in the account that

they ended up confiscating $450 million in Bitcoin wallets. Did you contact the Secret Service and explain that was your money? I tried to. I tried to, but they said they couldn't give it back. You don't seem to understand. I have a drug problem. I have a drug problem. I worked really hard for all this money. They're so unsympathetic. Well, what the crazy thing is they all these dark net sites usually have a you know there's different servers throughout different countries and they have backup plans for this so when you you know when you create these accounts there's a six digit pin you know you have uh you know whatever your username and password but generally if something goes wrong there's you have one shot to get the the

bitcoin out of whatever their wallet is into another wallet but with this the Alfa Bay case, they actually ended up finding the server that had everyone's money in it. Okay. So, you know, it was like, I think it was, yeah, there's nothing you can do. Like, you know, if you get wind of this, there are other sites where it was like you would go to that site and it would say you have, you know, let's say 12 hours to, you know, to get, to get your funds out of the law and you could at least get, have one shot at doing it. So that was, I mean, you know, it sucked.

It was awful. but you know i mean that's this is what happened so instead of doing um any other cryptocurrency sites or dark net sites i just decided to start selling them in bulk to you know the friends people i was getting drugs from that was probably the the most lucrative for me was being able to trade drugs or uh you know the money for drugs right um you know i was living in really on the outskirts of a you know pretty big city in north florida so it was pretty easy to you know meet people um you know and give them you know whatever say a couple grams of heroin i could give them you know double or triple you know and counterfeit bills you know for the for the drugs um there was a couple

i had a couple hangups with that because people would spend them there was one guy i gave a thousand a thousand dollars to and he spent all of them in one night and the next morning they ended up on the on the news and uh i didn't really you know i tried to stay away from like I wouldn't go in with these people to the stores yeah but he knew who I was he knew where I was was printing these at the time and so I was like I started to panic and also I was using a lot of drugs at this time too so I sort of like you know when you're using drugs you start to get real paranoid right you think that everyone's everyone's after you yeah so I was like I'm going to start to go on go essentially

go on the run and so I started driving from North Florida to South Florida and spending bills in between. So I would drive through these little towns. I would stop at, you know, dollar general stores by gift cards, visa gift cards, and, you know, essentially go to another store and then cash out those, those gift cards. So what, so, so you started your sell, at this point, you're, you're selling the notes. You're just giving it to, like, aren't you concerned you're selling it to people you know that they're going to get busted and that's going to catch out with you? I mean, honestly, at this point, I just, I didn't even care. I didn't even care. You know, When you're using drugs, it's just like, again, I don't get, I don't really care what, what happens as long as I can get the money first and deal with it later.

Right. You know, I wasn't living in this city. I was living like 45 minutes outside of this city. So, and like it was, you know, it's a real, real small town. Like this. Like this. Yeah. Yeah, like this.

Exactly. I always tell people Tampa. It's like, it's like this equivalent from here to Tampa kind of deal. Right. So I would drive into the city, you know, every single day. and sort of do these do these deals and then leave so i sort of felt a little insulated i mean i was super reckless because you know you're these people are also dealing you know dealing drugs you know having tons and tons of people in and out of these houses apartments you know wherever they're

going to get arrested if it's not for your shit it's for something right so um yeah i mean i was just i was just super reckless about it i mean i didn't do that for very long i probably did that for about a year before I ended up leaving Florida entirely. But, um, didn't anybody ever get busted and you were worried? There's, there are two, two guys ended up getting busted, but they didn't know my real name. Okay. Um, they gave them the license plate number that I had, but the license plate number was, it was out of state, uh, and the registration was expired, so it didn't really go anywhere. Um, but as far as I know, they didn't really, I mean, it's not like they ratted on me for anything. They just, they got caught for, you know, discharging a firearm in

public, you know, drug, drug, just, just dumb shit, drug possession and, you know, some other stuff. And they also, it wasn't like they had a, it's not like they had like 20,000, you know, it was, it was a couple, couple of bills. Right. You know, and, you know, counterfeit bills. Yeah, but like I said, the secret server will, they'll spend $100,000 in man hours to try and get, I mean, they, yes. No, I mean, they definitely, you know, they definitely will. I just, I don't think that they thought that it was going to go anywhere, you know, I mean, the one thing that I did do with counterfeiting is, you know, once I started to figure out how to make the bills properly, I started changing, you know, this, not every single bill, but I would make batches of like 50

different serial numbers. Right. You know, and so then I would print around of just that serial number and then switch to another one. And then when I would send these packages out, every person that was getting, you know, a package of the bills, there was a different serial number. But that serial number had been printed, you know, and going out to different people. So hopefully, um, people weren't, you know, the same state, you know, or same city or,

you know, whatever. Um, but honestly, I wasn't really, I wasn't really concerned, you know, okay, uh, with that. So you left Florida. So I left Florida. I moved back to, uh, Washington, D.C. area. I started taking care of my dad. Uh, he was sort of getting, he was getting older, you know, right. And, uh, he was getting, uh, you know, really sick. Um, so this is right before, right before COVID happened, I started to sort of print bills again at home. I sort of got situated with ink jet, laser jet, and magnetic ink, you know, printers. And the place I was living was perfect. I mean, I didn't really have to do a lot of work in terms of setup because a lot of times

when you're counterfeiting bills, you're moving around a lot, you know, or at least for me. You know, I was moving around to, you know, different places. Sometimes I was staying in a hotel room. sometimes I was staying in people's apartments, sometimes my own apartment, but you sort of have to move around so you don't have too much heat on you. Yeah, I was going to say it brings heat every time people, the local businesses or whatever are catching this. The secret surf will come in and just spend six months in the place looking for you. Right. The last place, you know, in Florida there was, I mean, there was multiple, you know, newspaper articles and stuff when things

would get hit because people would spend them at, you know, fast food restaurants, you know, gas state, racetrack gas stations. I think there was one guy who spent four of them in the same fast food restaurant in one week. Right. You know, so they're going, you know, and I used to check those kinds of things. I'd check the, check the newspaper articles, you know, and so I was like, all right, I got to reevaluate the situation here. So I started printing them again in D.C. And started using a dark net market called ASAP. Very similar. I mean, there's millions of, not millions, but there's tons and tons of dark net markets, you know, out now. It was a very similar to Alpha Bay. It wasn't the biggest. So I didn't really think that there was going

to be that much heat compared to some of the other sites like Alpha Bay 2.0 opened up. And this was after Dream and Hansa and a couple other dark net markets got shut down. So there was sort of a saturation of, you know, smaller markets, you know, coming up. So I started printing them again. This time I switched the I switched. my method a little bit because I started using a laser jet for just the black part of the bill on the front. So I would print the back of the bill in two passes, the strip and watermark in one pass, you know, on the back of that sheet. And then I would print the black, just the black front with the laser jet or ink jet, sorry, laser jet. And then the seal and the cereal green

with the ink jet and then spray it with a matte clear acrylic sealer and so that's sort of that was the biggest problem with with laser jet printers was the ink would smudge yeah or if it got you know any sort of you know rough handling it all the ink jet the laser jet would just wash right off so i use this acrylic sealer to sort of seal that and that also helped with the counterfeit pen so i started printing those again sending them out it was very very simple to You know, in DC area, there's tons and tons of USPS mailboxes, you know, on the corner. So I would switch up the routes, you know, I would drop them off, you know, sometimes, you know, two miles away. I would, I would try to do two drops a week.

So I would, let's say I got 12, let's say I got 12 or 15 orders. Instead of like printing and then sending them out the same day, I would sort of let, you know, six, I would do six drops at one time. another six. Right. You know, so I would, I would, uh, Tuesdays and Thursdays were the days that I usually dropped packages so I could get them out before the weekend, you know, generally you can get packages delivered within five, you know, five days. So it was pretty.

So you're concerned they might, if you go to the same box, then they're watching the box. They'll just sit on the box for a week. They'll just, they'll sit on the box, you know. Even if they just photograph the, photograph the tags of everybody that goes to that box. And then one day, that night, they find, hey, this is a box. This is counterfeit. they've got 60 people they have to check out they're going to find you right exactly and i i tried

to switch up the the box types um i usually use the flat rate you know it's like i think it was eight dollars and 50 cents you know um but i tried to switch to using the the envelopes as well so that way that i don't know just try to blend in right you know instead of going to you know a drop with you know six of the same or 10 of the same boxes in your car right you know try to switch it up in case I ever got, you know, pulled over just, you know, whatever. So I started doing that right before COVID hit. My dad ended up passing away, I guess it was four months into COVID in April. And I started using drugs again. Typical, you know, all these bad things sort of, you know, happened to me and I decided to, you know, go back out. And that's really when I

I started to ramp up, I tried to ramp up production instead of, I was, I was, you know, working prior to that, you know, at a restaurant, sort of just doing whatever. I stopped working at the restaurant and started just going, you know, doing the dark net markets, you know, full time. Right. Ordering drugs, getting, you know, Bitcoin. A lot of times I would use telegram, wicker, and proton mail. So instead of going through the markets because they take a percentage and it also takes, you know,

these, when you finalize something, it takes three to five days, usually. to get the money transferred to your account, I would meet people on these markets and then say, hey, hit up my, you know, hit up my telegram or hit up, you know, this, this, uh, email address if you want to do like direct deals. Right. And so that sort of was another like buffer to try to stay away from getting too much exposure on the dark net markets because it started, you know, they started to figure out how to trace Bitcoin. They started doing, you know, uh, dummy buys you know and a lot of times when you're on these sites especially when there's like you know fentany and all these other drugs there's a lot of you know scrutiny so i was trying to get away from

you know doing doing all that and just doing it you know uh peer to peer um i want to mention something to colby that i i have photos of of um like the sheets and everything right like you sent me all the did you see me photos oh there's photos yeah yeah yeah i like have like have like photos of all the like sheets of his counterfeit what were you documenting it what i when you said i thought is this was this when was this from the secrets when you got caught or no no no so that's just just just from a dummy email address oh okay yeah they're actually you can see they're actually yeah i have tons of them i have hundreds of them so i'm saying when he talks about that you could maybe even throw those up if you i mean i have hundreds and hundreds of photos yeah

in a in a folder i just didn't know if you know yeah yeah when you sent it to no i just remember think, oh, these would be great, like, as he's talking for, you could, well, you feel like, I did this and this. And even if he just, it doesn't even matter if the process is correct. He just shows the photos of the different types of things that you. Yeah, I mean, I have, you know, there's, there's photos where it's like, I have just a strip, you know, like when in, you know, there's no color or anything on it. Just the strip, just the watermark.

Um, I mean, I started getting silly and printing like, people don't realize that, uh, old money has like, there's red seals, blue seals, orange seals. You know, it's not just green. Right. So I started printing old, old bills and trying to sell them on eBay because some of these bills are like in the thousands of dollars. And if you put them in a like a clear placard, you know, and then put a piece. Yeah, it's even harder and harder for them to discern it, right?

Yeah, because you can't, you know, I mean, obviously the feel is one of the biggest things about money that sets it apart from any other paper. You know, and then if you put a PCGS, which is a, it's a company that rates currency, They, you know, they do old coins. You know, if you put a PCGS placard on top of this, you know, thing, people don't really, they don't really question it unless they get it actually verified by another, you know. Did you ever see the movie criminal? No, I don't think so. You got to look it up.

It's the guy, it's a movie about a scam. Okay. But the main guy, the criminal, right, the main criminal, although they're all criminals in pretty much in the movie. but the main guy that they're he's kind of a super anti-hero he ends up stumbling across a counterfeiter that he used to work with that had counterfeited was it an i think it was like a one of like there's like whatever let's say 50 u.s bonds that were issued back in the 18 fucking 90s or something whatever you know from the federal reserve whatever i don't know exactly what it was right right but it's it's clearly like it's it's a note or it's a bond of some kind right

I think it's a note. I think it was maybe a note. Anyway, there's only like 50. And there's like three of them that they have never been able to track. Wow. And so they're worth whatever, like $5 million or $6 million a piece, right? Just because it's a collector's item. Right, right, right.

And he goes to, he actually has a guy from England that they go to it, go to the guy and show him the note. But it's actually a counterfeit of the whatever the original was. There's three that are lost. Wow. is one of the ones that's lost, supposedly. So he has a counterfeit note, and he goes to the guy, and he has a guy come in and verify it and everything, and he's going to buy it.

And it's a whole thing about how the scam works and super interesting. That's crazy. That's super cool. And what's so funny is, like, you know, they actually, he actually, at some point, it gets, like, stolen. And so he goes back to the counterfeiter, and he's like, where's the other note? And he's like, what are you talking about? He's like, you lost the note?

Oh, he's like, no, no. he's like where's he up you wouldn't have just made one there's three out there right he's like what was the scam he's like well i was hoping to sell that one but i did make another one he said so that once that one was sold i could then go and if that works i could present this one we've got so you said because there's three that that guy's not going to tell anybody about the note he's he's a collector whatever right and even if he does it doesn't matter we can then later in six months or a year say hey guess what from someone else we just discover this one so he has it so he then takes it and goes provides that one super inch but they scam the guy out

of a bunch of money that he's like okay I'll do it right but you have to put up $100,000 or whatever it came to $200,000 for me to give you this note you just lost the other one right right right and we're 50 50 50% partners in it so now you have to give me but you have to put up the money because I don't trust you right and so he he ends up selling everything he's got to come up with this money and give the money over to the guy. Wow. Which it's really a scam to scam him. That's so crazy.

I'll have to check it out. It's a great, great movie. That's awesome. It's one of those movies that I'll bet you they made it for under $10 million. It's got a bunch of secondary actors in it, but they're great actors. It's a phenomenal movie. I haven't seen it, but I'll do. You got to watch it.

I used to watch. You have to. There was another guy. I think his name was. Robert. You have to figure out. Find it. Robert Toulton, maybe.

who was another U.S. Counterfeiter's story who I was like, you know, trying to learn from. He was on American Greed too. Was he? Did you ever see, um, did you ever see it to live and die in L.A.? Yes, but it's been years. You know, I've been trying to find it. It's almost in pot. You cannot find it.

You can't find it. It's not on any streaming service. It's like, dude, what the fuck is going on? Jeff Turner had never seen it. Really? And I told him about it. And I think he found it. He, because he called, texted me one day and was like, bro, it was almost impossible to find,

but I actually got, he found it somewhere. So if you remind me out, ask. Kim. I would love to know where because I've been trying to find it forever. It's fucking amazing. Forever. Was it William Defoe? Well, William Defoe. He's great in it. William Defoe. And it's one of those few movies where

I didn't see the ending coming. Like when it happens, I'm like, whoa. Right, right. Wow. Like, I never saw that happening. There was another Vegas counterfeiter who I don't remember the dollar amount, but it was it was in the millions of dollars. And he ended up getting caught because one of

the, you know, one of the checkout girls actually ripped it. Whoa. She ripped, it was like, he was doing 20s, and she ripped it because, you know,

most of the time, you're not going to bleach or you're not going to soak your, you know, your bills in, you know, dye, like coloring dye, you know?

And so it was two sheets of paper, and she ripped it open and it was white, and that was the only way they could tell that they were counterfeit. Because it passed everything else? Because it passed everything else. Yeah, it had everything else on it.

So those damn do-goaters. I know. It's like, good Samaritan bullshit so what happened where where are we now so you're still you're you're you're selling the stuff you're this was COVID your father so yeah dad

dad passed away so I was actually on a date this is this is you pull out the money for on the date no check this out so I'm just bought a new car well I had bought me you were cheap you went with the I'm gonna slip this I'm not I should have given them She should have given them real money and said you thought, let me see if I can get away with this. So I bought this car like right as COVID started and the DMVs were super backed up, you know, so I didn't register it.

And so I had made these, you know, temporary tags are just bullshit pieces of paper. So I made a temp tag and then I made a temporary license with my information on it, not fake, you know, stuff, but my information, you know, it's like weight, height, blah, blah, blah. you know Virginia seal in the background temp tag well I'm on a date and why didn't you get your own driver's license what because there was there was a six month wait for the DMB during COVID oh okay the DC Virginia area okay so I was like you know what I want doing that I got my own shit I got my own equipment I'm trying to drive my own fucking car right I'm trying to fucking wait around do this shit you know so we go and get ice cream and we're going back to to the hotel and a cop pulls up behind me

and I just looked at her and I go I'm fucked Does she have any idea? No She has no idea I just go I'm fucked And I'm thinking Well at the time I'm thinking

That it's just going to be like Some tickets For you know False paperwork or something like Right Whatever you know Whatever fuck it Well I get out of the car

And you know Things are taking forever I'm like what the fuck is going on Like this is kind of ridiculous Like write me a ticket Let me go And they're like yeah you have a you have a worn out for counterfeiting from 2018 what it's 20 2020 and i was like

shh it was like shit dude and so they're like yeah did you live at you know x and x you know residents you know in 2018 and i was like yeah i mean i did live there for a little bit but you know i have i was a you know there was a bunch of other people living there at the time so i was like i don't know what's going on so i'm sitting on the curb for like what like three hours four hours it's like four hours i'm sitting there you know and they're like call is this you yeah this is her yeah yeah that's funny yeah you know and so i mean the cops did you tell them i'll just come down on tuesday and take care of it the cops were yeah yeah i was like i'll be there yeah i'll be there next if only that's how this works oh i wish yeah i'll be there next week and that'll be on the first flight

out you know um i mean the cops were super cool i just was like i didn't really know what it was from like i knew that the address that they were talking about but i had no idea how i got caught because I've never been physically caught with or printing any of these bills. But in 2018, I had left, I guess, I left a printer that had some notes in it and then had one sheet of the strip and the watermark like in the bottom, you know, where you actually put the paper. Yeah. It was in the bottom of the printer.

A video too. I should have. I should have just read the whole, yeah, my name is Christian Brown and I like to butt-fuck the banks. Right. Right. And so they were like, yeah, you've been, you know, did you live there? And I'm like, yeah, I did live there. And so they, you know, takes forever, got arrested. I had to transport me to, why do I feel like they're, you're, you're that's not me? What? That's crazy. I would never. And then they go, is this temp tag forgery? No, that's a perfectly good temp tag. Is this ID counterfeit? You know what? Let's just get in the back of the car. Let's, uh, well, this is, this is the

funny part this is the funny part so yeah they look at all that stuff but they don't really they're like well they're like why why why why why you have temp tag still and I was like because I have a DMV appointment you know and so I showed them an email that was like you have a DMV appointment you know three four months from now they're like oh okay so they didn't really scrutinize it that much right so I get transferred to Falls Church and then back to Arlington and because it was COVID they let me they let me out nice you know I don't I didn't really have any priors, you know, so it wasn't like, you know, I was going to be locked in there for like once. So they let me out. It was like, I think, what, 12 hours?

16 hours, you know, from getting the, from getting pulled over to me getting out, you know, it was. Do you guys get ice cream? Well, we got, we had just got ice cream before I got pulled over. That's, that's something. Yeah, it's like, all right, it's cool. Um, but they ended up sending back in the mail that temp license they sent it back to the address that i was living at so they never so they just they ran it and checked out and they were fine they ran it and it checked nice that's a confirmation right there yeah well you just started stuck with that you start to get super cocky you're like all right fucking idiots like you know they can't do shit uh so you know i realized that this was you know probably going to end in a bad situation so i was like i'm gonna hire

you know spend some money on a lawyer it took like two years to resolve the whole whole case right um you know my lawyer was like you could possibly go to trial and win but i was like listen like that's not i'm not even trying not even trying to take that risk right you know so i was like whatever they throw at me i'll just take it um it was kind of crazy because they they didn't really offer any pleas or anything up until the day that i went to court you know there wasn't like we were going back and forth trying to figure out like what was going on right it was just It was like radio silence for, you know, I mean, I know the court systems were backed up, you know, for COVID and whatnot, but it was just radio silence for like two years. So I'm thinking that I'm at least going to go, you know, away from maybe, I don't know, a year, you know, six months a year or something like that.

Right. But yeah, no. I mean, we just, we went to court and they were like, can you take a suspended, you know, a suspended sentence? It was like a six month, I think six month or 12 months suspended sentence. Right. And that was it. And so. And this was federal?

Yeah. It was, I can't remember the name of the. Do you remember the name of the Secret Service agent? I don't know. What? So, well, somebody had reported me. This house I was living at, I guess when I left, they, I had forgot this printer and this stuff.

And so they went through it. They called the cops. And then the cops called, you know, Secret Service. They checked it out. They checked it out. And so, uh, they weren't able to really link anything. Right. Anything else, you know, and my, because my fingerprints weren't in the system,

prior, you know, I don't know if that's something, because that's another mistake a lot of counterfeiters make when they're printing is you're supposed to wear gloves so that when you're sending out all these packs, your fingerprints aren't a common denominator. Right. You know, on the paper. So, but yeah, I mean, honestly, nothing, I was, I mean, I was super lucky. I mean, I was super grateful to not. There's about a thousand explanations for why that could have been found. It's like it wasn't me. Right. I don't know. Could have been this. Yeah, my buddy was doing it. I don't know his name. You know, the guy, another guy in the house.

Like, yeah, I did definitely touch that printer. You know, like, it doesn't necessarily. So obviously, I'm sure they were like, you probably could have gone to, if you probably said, I would go to trial, there's probably a chance that they might have said, we'll just drop it. Well, there's just not enough. Yeah, there was enough, you know, evidence, but there was a couple guys at the house that said that, like, I had ragged about doing it. Yeah.

And then they also. You left that part out. Yeah, I did. I did. I did. Yeah, I did. I did. I did that out.

You know. but they went to my dad's storage unit after my dad's storage unit my mom's and I think my sisters to interview them to see if you know and I mean there wasn't you know there wasn't anything there I hadn't really been around them or living at home from all so you know there wasn't really that big of a reason you definitely made the right decision because they get three people on the stand and say you you were that's your computer you were making money yeah you're going to jail right but they didn't find the dollar bills but they could at least charge you once with manufacturing, that's probably three years, three years.

Well, if they had found the laptop that I was using at the time, I would have been fucked, which was sitting in that hotel room. I had taken it out of the car when we went to get ice cream. I don't know why. It was like one of those moments where it's just like that could have made her, you know, make her break, you know? Well, I've met real counterfeiters. I've met two or three while I was locked up in 13 years.

Like, that's how rare it is. And I remember this one guy who'd been locked up, I'll bet you'd been locked up three different times. counterfeiting really and he told me this was at the medium he was the medium it was only at the medium because he had been locked up so many times for it right and he said like when I asked him I said so what are you going to do when you get out he said I'm going to go back to counterfeiting right and I went why and he goes he said listen bro he's like you get no time for this shit and he was doing like six or bill there were bills or checks or no these were these were these were bills right

right he said listen he said for the amount of money that I've made doing this and the amount of time he said there's just no reason for me to to to to not go back to stop right right and he this was like he was get he I don't know what was six I want to say it was five or six years that he got I was going to say nine but I don't think this was the same guy think five or six years and he said the only reason he had gotten like the five or six years this time is because it was like his third time being arrested for the same fucking thing right he's the first time he's like I got like he got like a year or two um he said the next time he got something else but it's always in combination with other things like he had a gun or he had two or he had two

drugs or he had he's like if they just caught me for the counterfeiting he was it would have been three four six three four five years he's like I was just what I need to do is not do all these other things involved with the counterfeiting and just stick with the counterfeiting right so he was explaining it all to me so I met him I met another guy who had counterfeited um and I met another guy who had counterfeited which was just stupidity like the reason he was there just like bullshit I mean we're talking about putting it on the computer printing it, cutting them out. He was trying to make them, but he never could.

He's like, I never could to get even close. So my girlfriend and I, they literally had like a, they had made, whatever, 30 or 40 of them. And it was like pictures of, he was, I'd actually cut out like pictures of like Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton or whoever it was. And this was, keep in mind, this was, whatever, 20 years ago. And I met him when I first got in. And he made, and he said, we took them and we actually had a little plant, right? in the house with you know it was like a little tree right right a bush or whatever in his house he said we had taped them to the limbs and we called it our money tree it was a joke he said well three of

the bills were from the original patch he said we're actually weren't didn't look like monopoly money they looked they looked somewhat somewhat right you know they weren't really in color they want this they weren't that they were a couple runs he said but you know so he actually went to trial because first of all his girlfriend's the one that told the cops oh shit so they get into a fight the cops show up and she says he's making he's making money he's right over there she they go in they find it they grab and he wasn't there they grabbed him later counterfeiting and um he goes to trial and he went to trial um i want to say we went to trial or maybe it was just at sentencing that happened i want to say it was trial and the judge had said look you know it must have been trial because they charge him with like everything everything. And so he, the judge said, I'm throwing out all of these charges because none of this money, nobody. This isn't even close to being passable. Correct. None of this is even close. And he obviously had it taped to a tree. He's like, but these three bills, clearly he was making an effort. He didn't pass them. He was trying. He said, but they look pretty good. You know, he's like,

do, where they pass? I don't know. But clearly this is what his intention won was. You have three bills and he ended up getting three years because he i think it was because he went to trial otherwise he may have gotten a year i mean that's you know i mean i had friends that got you know locked up not for counterfeiting but you know drugs guns and other shit i always heard that if if you go to trial you shouldn't even try to go to fucking trial because they will throw the book at you yeah i can't tell you how many guys they were offered two years and they went to trial and got 20 right i know a guy that was offered three years he went to trial he got 17 i know a guy that was offered three years he went to trial he got 17 i know guy that I mean, you just, it's one after, you know, all these 15 and 20 year sentences are for

minor, minor petty crimes, you know, petty federal, federal crimes where they're offering you three years or two years or five years probation and you fuck that I'm going to trial and you get 15 years, 20 years. So, I mean, that happens all the time. So yeah, going to trial, that's a mistake. Yeah, no, I just, I mean, I also, you know, throughout all of this, you know, I had a really, really bad you know ivy drug habit right and so it was kind of like uh i almost wanted something bad to happen so that i could somehow break this right this cycle you know because you know on and off my entire life since 17 the the one constant has always been you know opiates and so that was like you know it was kind of like a moment where it's like all right you know i'm getting

you know older now and like i you know oded a couple times you're almost trying to hit rock bottom yeah you know and so all this you know other bad shit's happening so I'm like well how can I you know it's not like I consciously decided for that to happen but I was just sort of like accepted any and all whatever's going to happen is probably going to be you know for the better um so I used throughout the whole you know waiting to get up to this you know not trial but the the court date I you know used throughout all this was just you know an absolute wreck and I didn't even stop counterfeiting really you know I sort of switched from counterfeiting bills to just going straight to to cards cards and checks

which I don't I don't know it was just like the most reckless shit ever you had definitely had problems they grabbed you again for some of us I would have been completely fucked but the crazy thing is like I I kept having these you know encounters like she had to pick me up

three times in the same week in the same parking lot because I was found by cops like fucked up in the car you know and for some reason because it was like a like OD they didn't search the car really you know it was more of like a like EMT rescue kind of shit right you know and if they'd dude if they'd searched my car they would have found everything in the trunk you know so

I got it was just you know all these different things that happened it was like I really need to reevaluate my life and see what I can do to you know stop all this shit you know so this isn't working like no it's not working it doesn't matter how much money you know it's not like I ever you know over the course of you know just my drug habit and 15 years is like what was one point three million dollars baseline you know that's like two hundred dollars a day you know which there's a lot of days i spent way more than that then you have gambling you know part just all trips all sorts of other shit you know and it was like there's so much that i could have done to you know help myself and help other people during that

time and it's like i literally shot and blew away you know almost 20 years of my life and so i was like i'm going to try to stop all this you know and and and uh you know i wanted to help start helping people you know and so i had to go to rehab again and detox and you know all that shit and so yeah i mean i made it through the you know other side so it was good where's your mom now uh she's getting fucking old in arlington jesus you don't have a good relationship i mean we're cool right no we're cool um uh okay uh okay so what are you doing so uh so i um I volunteer at a low barrier shelter, like four or five days a week. They do, you know, they do food, housing, addiction, mental health services.

I got back into school to get my peer addiction health counselor certification. So, yeah, that's what I'm, I mean, doing right now at the moment. Yeah, I mean, it's been really cool. You know, I just, I want to, I go to a lot of meetings, run a lot of meetings, stuff like that. For like AA? For AA, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I'm just, I'm trying to kids that were in my situation, adults, whoever,

trying to help them see that there is a way out and there's other side of things. You know, obviously the whole, you know, this whole fentanyl crisis, you know, like, this is not new. Like, fentanyl has been around for, you know, he was getting that shit 10 years ago. It's just now it's like everyone is switching from, you know. They're not lacing all these drugs.

They're lacing all these drugs, but you can't get, you know, all the pain patients that were getting. these pills legally can't get them anymore and so now they're trying to find other avenues there's just you know there's so many different ways that you know addiction happens and so now it's just like that's become the constant now is you know the whole you know fentanyl crisis and whatnot so right um yeah i just i want to try to help people you know get through that you know as best as best uh as best they can so you're volunteering i mean are you hoping that that turns

into like a full-time job um once you get your so the yeah so the place So I'm volunteering at, if I finish this peer certification, I will be able to get a job there. Okay. You know, it's actually, it's pretty, it's not that it's easy, but it's not, you know, it's not like four years or two. Right. It's not even two years, you know, depending on how long you can get, you know, how many hours you do a week, you can, you can pretty much, you can get through it pretty quickly. What was the difference between the bills you made and, like, real bills? Was there any, like, things that were different?

I mean, the easiest way to distinguish those would probably be looking at the fine, like the fine lines around the corner and then in the portrait because inkjet, laser jet was clearer, but they would rub off quicker, but the inkjet ink bleeds. So, I mean, naked eye, if you don't know what you're looking at, you're not going to know. but if you like sometimes you'd run into people that were you know you know older people that were gas stations that you know have been handling money their whole life yeah yeah you know and so they you know they would look at it they'd mark the pen you know then they'd check but they would be like this this doesn't feel right and so sometimes they'd put them in these they you know have bill validators now and so it would spit them out and a couple of times people were like they didn't understand why they're like we don't know what's wrong with they didn't think it was

counterfeit because it looked it looked good enough it looks you know in the in the you know the pen passed the pen test but they didn't understand that like because it doesn't have magnetic ink on that's the easiest way for them to you know for bill validators to tell um but to the naked eye to untrained eye not not much not much i'll send you all those i have all these photos of them so when you said these guys were like like the girl korea was spinning these counterfeit bills in these other countries these people who are buying on the dark web like it's easier to get counterfeit bills pass in other countries as opposed to the U.S.? Or like, were these people in the dark web just using it domestically?

So all the people that I sent to was domestic. There were a couple people that I dealt with overseas for drugs, but it was a very, very long, difficult process. I also talked to a couple counterfeiters in France. And counterfeiting in Europe is apparently is huge. And like legit, like counterfeit operations. Like they will have like all the offset presses. they do everything on an industrial scale.

So it's like instead of printing, you know, I was printing blocks of whatever, $10, $20, $30,000. They're printing, you know, $250,000, you know, $500,000, you know, multiple millions of dollars. So I'm not really sure about the European counterfeit market. I do know that they're good, though. Yeah, plus most of these countries are,

most of these countries are corrupt. So if you're in Romania, you know, or bless you. You. If you're in Romania or you're in, you know, Kazakhstan or you're in Chechnya or whatever, like the government themselves can go to banks and bring

stacks of money in and just fucking run it through the system and, you know, it doesn't even get caught until maybe it works its way back into the United States. And you know what I'm saying? Like there's so many ways that, because they're in bed with the government and the banking system over there, they don't mind ripping off the Americans and ultimately they can they can help refundle it back out into society you

know what I'm saying if you go into the bank and you say hey I need I need $200 and $200 and 20s for American they're like sure they hand it to you you go spin it out in the community whoever out in the community buys it or or takes it and then it gets turned back in the bank and they say this is counterfeit that person got hit for the money not the bank right not the bank right so they have you know they work in conjunction with each other because it's practically you know, Romanian government is practically the mob, you know, it's, it's, so it's so easy for them. So, of course, the government itself will invest, like the North Korean thing, they'll invest a million dollars into all of the correct equipment.

Why wouldn't they? We can make a billion dollars. And it'll never catch up with us. So, but, you know, the average counterfeiter that's trying, not that you're average. But the average guy that's trying to do it himself, he can't invest to, he can't buy an Antalio printer for a hundred thousand dollars to try and get that part of the process corrected yeah and then you know the ink and paper I mean the you know Frank Baruso I don't you know he was able to get you know pallets of sent from yeah

that's such a great it's two it was 250 million dollars but it was in US 20s and people don't realize like currency way it weighs a shit ton you know like if you a hundred thousand dollars I think in hundreds is like 1.1 pounds, so 200 million fucking dollars in 20s is, it's a whole truckload. That's a great article. You know, I actually have the article that was written in, I think it was GQ magazine. Yes, yes, it was. I actually have a, I made a copy of it, and I have it upstairs in a box.

Because when I was in prison, any really great articles that I read, True Crime articles I read, I would make a copy of them and just keep them out a stack of great ones. That's awesome. And his was, and he was such a, um, a character. He was absolute character. He's like five foot five. Chubby, you know, chunky. Yeah.

And a maniac. And, you know, just, just doing ridiculously crazy stuff. He like fixed cars and, you know, was drug party world, just all this like dumb shit. And then he somehow was like, I'm going to crack the, the 20. And then he did it. And then he actually didn't end up going to prison because he had $200 million. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Hidden away. Was it, did he have the, or did they never get the press? Well, it's two presses, right? So there was $50 million in one press. Right. Over here missing. And then there was $200 million in another press that when he went to court, I think this is right.

When he went to court, he mentioned to his lawyer, I have $200 million dollars out on the street. And they were like, if you give it to us, you'll get, you know. I think he spent six weeks in prison. No, he got sentenced, but he, it's Canada. He did get a sentence, but he got to do it in his living room. So he's got an ankle monitor on for a year and a half in his living room. You know, so you get to go home and just call in.

But the other thing was they did a, what do they call it? They call it in a change of the flag or a false flag. I think they do. They think they call it a false. When you're, it's like in the CIA, they call it a false flag. I think. And I'm sure somebody will correct me because I'm sure I'm wrong. Right.

But were they, so he's, his whole thing was basically when they grabbed him in Canada, which they call it the crown, right? The government is the crown, right? The prosecution. He's like, the crown was threatening him. But in his mind, I haven't done anything violent. I'm going to end up on probation of some kind, which is true. And he was not cooperating with them.

He was, it was a whole, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. You don't have any proof. You don't have this. So he's, I'm going to trial, and then they brought in the Secret Service because he was counterfeiting U.S. money. So when they bring in the Secret Service and they sit down, they say, we're going to extradite you to the U.S. He immediately went, okay, listen, I'm ready to talk.

Because he knew the U.S. will put me in prison. I'll go to prison. Yeah, he would have been fucked. The amount of money was so over the top. He would have done five or ten years at least. I don't know what they were threatening him with, but he would. was terrified because of the amount of money he had. So then he said, okay, okay, okay, I'll cooperate, but you have to agree not to fucking, you know. Not to prosecute. Right. You can't, you can't,

you can't, you can't, uh, whatever, send me to the U.S. or, um, extradite me to the U.S. and, which I'm sure was probably all bullshit. Like the U.S. probably, maybe they, maybe they cared, maybe they didn't care, because I'm sure if the U.S. said, no, we want him. They would have given him to it. But yeah, when they actually, he said, he wasn't concerned at all until the U.S. Secret Service walked in and sat down. Then he, he just was like, oh my God. I'm in a lot of trouble. Right. Oh,

yeah, serious. But, you know, it's crazy as nowadays, you know, all the paper, the OVI ink, you know,

UV pens, you can, simple Google searches, you can find all of this stuff, you know, on. Yeah, back when he did it. Yeah.

That was back in the early 2000s, right? Yeah, you have to, you know, you had to contact, you know, special paper companies,

then somehow explain to them why he needs, you know, USA 20 or, you know, Jackson or, you know, Watermark or whatever. Well, the Alibaba thing, right? The, uh, wasn't it Alibaba?

I was going to say that had just come out when Boziac was doing. That's how he was able to buy the thermal printer. He's like, you couldn't find it anywhere else. Right. They like didn't even care. And that when he did the credit cards and they had the, the hologram for the, you know, for the Visa or MasterCard, yeah. He's like, every place he had called was like, you know, absolutely not, absolutely not. literally took a credit card and cut one up and mailed it to China.

Yep. For somebody he found on Alibaba, they came back there. They were like, how many do you want? Yeah, you can get, I mean, rolls, a roll of 10,000 of them. We're prior to that, you're just not getting it at all. It's never going to happen. But Alibaba, like, opened it up because let's face it, the Chinese don't, they don't give a shit about American law.

No, not at all. I mean, you know, I was, I mean, I had tried every paper possible, you know. I mean, I would go to, you know, art stores. I would go everywhere. and I could find the right, you know, thickness, but not in, you know, UV dull, starch, you know, there's all these different variations or sometimes it was, you know, it was the right, it was the right paper, but it was then, it was too thick, you know, to sandwich them, to sandwich them together. And so, you know, on Alibaba and Alixpress, you know, you can get

OVI water, you know, and watermarking ink, you know, you can get white, black, you can get, you know, black to green, optically variable ink. You can get, you know, black to green, optically variable ink. get tons of other colors too if you were doing 50s you know you could do you know gold to whatever silver to gold or whatever it is right you know so it was it's crazy nowadays how how easy all of it really is uh last question yeah i think you might have already said you didn't have any but did you have any close calls of you spinning the bills yourself so the closest call yeah was it a uh a dollar general again and so it passed the i used to go to dollar general because it was the easiest place for me to buy gift cards. And most people at Dollar General do not give a fuck.

Yeah, no. Yeah. It's not because like, you know, it's just in, you know, Florida, they're, they're everywhere. So I could hit, you know, in a 60 mile radius, I could hit 10, 20 dollar generals, you know, and like, you know, maybe, you know, a few hours, right, two, three, four hours. And, you know, each store you're hitting for, you know, 500 to, let's say, a thousand bucks you know and so two three four hours you can make you know two three four five thousand dollars yeah um there is it was an old woman she she did the pen test and she took it back and she was like can you please hold on one second so she went to the back to put it in a bill validator and she was taking a long she was taking a long time and i i assumed that like she was she was

doing some sort of other verification and she called the cops i was going to say it takes sometimes it's hard to get a detective on the phone Yeah. She called the cops. And the thing was she had, she had my ID. Oh, yeah. So I was like, I don't know what I don't know what to do. So I was like, do I stay here and try to explain it away? So I ended up staying and talking to her just like, you know, I was just trying to be as cool as possible. Like I don't know. Like I just got paid, you know, from this job. I was doing flooring at the time. So I was like, I'm just, you know, I just got paid. Are you telling me that my boss gave me a counterfeit. $100 bill, he looked me right in the face. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Are you serious?

Like, this is unbelievable. I trusted that man. Because another thing is I also would usually. Give me that $100. I'm going to go to the police right now. This is outrageous. I was like, let me go to the, let me go to the ATM. If you give me my ID back, I will go to the ATM and get you these, these bills and trade them for you.

You know? Nobody's more upset about this than me. No, this is outrageous. you know because now I'm out oh my gosh I have more in the car you know but if you mix them in you know I would always mix them in with some real bills instead of just going you know flat out right counterfeit you know ones five 10s 20s so I'm standing there and I'm trying to figure out how am I going to be like can I have my fucking ID is this when you punched her in the face you grabbed your stuff and ran knock her teeth out yeah and I'm out um no I just I was like listen

I'm going to go to the ATM I was like if you give me 15 minutes I was like I'll go to the ATM down on, you know, whatever it was. And I was like, I'll be, I'll be right back. And she's like, well, I don't know if I can do that until they get here. So we ended up waiting about an hour and 15 minutes. And after an hour and 15 minutes, she was like, you know, I'm sort of like, every so often, like, hey, can I just like go fix this real quick? And she's like, you know, all right, honey. And she gives me a my ID back. And I just bounced in the car and dipped. Fucking, fucking do-gooders. Fucking good Samaritans, man.

Damn it, Granny. It's like, God damn. I mean, there's, that was like, that was the closest call for using them. I mean, there was other close calls where I just would get pulled over, you know, for speeding, you know, I don't know, just other dumb shit. I ran a stop, a couple stop signs, you know, swerving because I was always driving fucked up on Xanax and shit. Right.

You know. But it was always in the trunk. Everything was always in the trunk. If I was moving anything, it was always in the trunk. So it was kind of like. They'll never look there. They'll never look in the trunk, you know? I'm white, too, so it's like, I don't have shit, I don't fucking anything.

Do you tell me what do you pull me over for? Having you heard of white privilege? Yeah, duh. Come on. Officer. And then kind of just accidentally drop one of them out the window and say, one of the hundreds and say, is that yours? Like, I mean, the sketchiest was actually in being in hotels and printing in hotels

because these motherfucking room cleaners would come in without knocking. And I would be mid print. and I would have four printers right in the corner of the room I'd have sheets on the bed sheets you know on the floor sheets on the counter I can see a closed line with all the bills hung out they walk in you're like hello I have I have in nothing happening here I actually have pictures of a closed line of bills that I'll send to you it was one of my first runs and they were you know they were rough but they still you know when you have sheets of money hanging hanging up around the room it's kind of

funny. Yeah, man. It's just, it's insane. But I'm just, you know, I'm just super lucky that I was able to, you know, get through it all. It's like 11, 11 ODs later, you know, out throughout my life. So how much would you say you made over the years? Um, it would probably be in like the two, 1.5 to 2.5 million dollar range.

If they hadn't taken all the Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin would have been worth, at least at today's rate, I think it was worth like 4.4.4. 5 you know 4.5 million yeah if they hadn't taken if alpha bay if alpha bay hadn't gone if i had transferred all that money out of alpha bay right before it got taken down taken down it would have been about 4 point i think 4.5 you know um but honestly i i swear like if i had even had that kind of money i don't even think i'd be standing here i was going to say you probably would have owed yeah i mean i don't even think i would have been standing here or at least I would have gotten, you know, in a lot more trouble for, I mean, anything else.

Right. I mean, I was just, you know, my whole life has just been a fucking mess of drugs and illegal activity. But he's laughing. No, that's fine. No, it's ridiculous. I mean, this is a very abridged version. Yeah. This is like, you know, this doesn't include all the psych wards and getting stabbed and all this other shit, you know.

How did you get stabbed? No, that was, I mean. You didn't go to prison. No, no, no, I didn't go to prison. No, no, I was running around like a ferry. No, man, I was living in this drug house and just, you know, I was printing checks and like, in fraud, the fraud world and drug world, like, if you can offer something like that, then people are like, oh, yeah, come over here. Because it's like free, you know, I always have drugs, you money, you know, food, whatever. So it's like a free, free deal.

And so this girl that was, that was friends with my ex-girlfriend who went to prison, She, like, had a super crush on me, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't ever hang out with her. I didn't hook up with her. Like, she was living with a bunch of her girlfriends, and she thought that I was trying to set her up because my girlfriend had gotten, house had gotten raided. So she thought that I was trying to set her up, just like my, you know, ex, which I didn't set her up, but, you know, she's all, you know, meth down. They're like, oh, it must have been.

you know this motherfucker over here and so she had four uh four of her friends kicking the door of uh drug house guy friends guy friends okay kick in the front door of the house one of them came up behind me with like one of those big ass rambo knives right and then another one was like standing in front of me and he's like you know like sort of hitting me in the face and he just reaches around with a knife and just stabs me right right here in the like kidney and so my friend Jameson pulls out to like I think it was a bretta APX and like a six hour P226 which are handguns and he's like standing in the middle of room and he's like trying he's like pointing the gun at me and this dude with the knife behind my neck and then he's pointing it with these other

motherfuckers he's like you know get the fuck out of here and they're like oh shit he's got the strap he's got the strap you know and then the guy john wick shit the guy yeah like the guy with the knife behind me ended up tripping because there was this little step where we were standing he ended up tripping and I ended up falling on him but he was like real scared because I thought you were going to say he the K bar he just fell on the K bar just went my neck through no he was like shaking he he was like shaking like this you know and like as soon as he fell he was like oh my god he drops a knife and like runs out but I couldn't walk for like two months that was kind of fucked what well because they they got me right here like right behind the kidney it just did you go to the doctor I did not

no no fuck that man why I don't know I honestly don't really go to doctors not a gunshot wound. No. Well, because I was always scared that they were going to either hold me and I wasn't and I was going to go through withdrawal. Right. Because the last, like the, I went to value hospital. I overdosed in the middle of Flamingo Avenue. Off duty cop found me. And they sent me to a psych ward for 31 days after that. Like I was in the hospital for five days. That's where you want to detox. Psych work. Oh, absolutely. You know, it's fucking awesome. They put you in a room by yourself. No food, no water. You're not allowed to do shit. Do they give you the turtle suit? They didn't gave me the turtle suit they took everything and just gave me an open-ended just you know it's like a

hospital gown essentially it was like in prison they give you like a turtle suit it's like this thick thick material that has a couple straps on the side really and it it loops over you like it's a big vest with straps oh no yeah no no horrible no they uh this place was like I mean it was it was it was brutal they ended up getting shut down in 20 it must have been like 2016 for patient brokering and shit across day lines but uh yeah yeah it was I mean it was it was it was character man it was fucking characters up in there you know i'm like dude i was like dude i'm a heron out i's like i need to get the fuck out of here like so but yeah anyways um in las vegas did you ever use the bills in Vegas or you're still learning how to print in Vegas so i didn't really

use the bills in Vegas because it wasn't i didn't have the like correct really the correct paper and the correct method to do everything yet uh Vegas was pretty much check fraud and credit card fraud at that point. It wasn't really until I moved to Florida until I started to get pretty big. Pretty big in a counterfeiting. Would you ever consider paying somebody's bail with, uh, no, no, uh, actually my, the, the girl who got arrested did that. And yeah, she ended up doing that. She got away with it, though. But no, I wouldn't, no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't do that. That's pretty ballsy. That's pretty ballsy. Who spent all the money at Six Flags?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There was a guy that came in. He did not a lot of counterfeiting, but he did do, you know, it was really he was just, he was the guy who was out selling the bills. He didn't make the bills right now. But he, when, was it that he got? Him and his buddies, this is two different stories, but his buddy got caught and he paid,

he paid his bail money or whatever. With counterfeit bills. And that's kind of what, set the alarms. And then they all with six flags. like a whole family, and they're all spending, like, they're all... And they aren't a roller coaster. And then when they got the roller coaster,

their bars wouldn't show up. And when they... Back in the rollercoaster, the cops were there. Oh, my God. Dude, that's insane. Yeah, no, that she paid with counterfeit bills and stolen checks. And it came, you know,

it eventually caught up, caught up to her. Right. I mean, but yeah, no fucking way, man. Yeah, the moment you get caught and you continue to commit crime, that they really have... have no sympathy for you at all at that point. You get caught for a crime and then you start committing additional crimes while you're

out on bond or try and cover something. Then they're just like, this guy's, that's it. If we were going to give him a chance at all, he just lost it. Right. I mean, I also like, I would tell people, sometimes in the beginning, like when you start buying drugs with it, you're like, oh, maybe I should tell them, maybe I shouldn't. But in the end, I just started telling them that they were fake just so that they weren't ever going to like come back and right you know because like the guy with uh with um uh

uh jeff turner came the guy came back and was like look what's what's going on with this and he's like i'm not mad i just want to know what's happening right right right jeff explained it and then they worked out a deal yeah i mean it was kind of like uh whatever like three for you know you could give them three if you're buying a gram of dope or you know whatever you can give them three you know three hundred dollar bills for a hundred yeah you know something like that So, okay. What do you think? Yeah.

One more question. Yeah. Were you ever able to build up like a big stash or like just because of your habit, like you just were. The most that I ever had in real cash at one time was like 170,000 cash. And between various prepaid cards and whatnot, each prepaid card probably had like six to six to ten thousand. So quarter million probably. But I can shoot that away real quick. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, she, well, that's a whole other story. The night that I got, sorry, the night that I got arrested, she panicked and she went to that place I was staying at and carried 110 pounds safe out of the fucking apartment and puts it in the back of her car. And then it's like waiting for me, you know, to call. I'd be like, get me out. You know, were you a new walk-in with the safe?

I built, no, she was scared that they were going to, that they were going to go to the apartment that I was living at and, like, you know, raided and check it and check everything, you know. What was in the safe? It was $107,000 in cash. Oh, okay. Real cash, not fake cash, you know, and prepaid cards and all this shit. And so she, I don't know how she got it.

I don't even know. I don't even know how she got it out of the apartment into her fucking car. And then she picks me up, whatever, five, o'clock in the morning you know and she's like oh yeah and she like had a had a uh blanket over it she's like oh yeah here's your here's your here's your here's your baby here's your here's your here's your safe it's like fuck thank god my roommate was also he's a he was a cop calling fuck so right thank god but no they didn't go to the apartment at all you know just paranoia better to be safe than sorry yeah yeah but we went on a lot of trips with all that but bought some cars did

some bullshit. I didn't get a, I didn't get a smart, like my first, like, uh, smartphone until I was 26. I didn't get my first smartphone until I was, uh, uh, 5, uh, 49, a couple months before my 40th birthday. That's wild. I know. That, that was, I'd never seen one. That must have been, that must have been insane. I saw them on TV. Like, I would see the people doing the, and I was like, wow, they're moving fingers that. They would see him doing this. And I thought, there's something there. The swipe, so swipe. I saw, everyone was about to be a commercial. Like, okay, that's a smartphone, right? I mean, I couldn't believe.

The first time I ever got a phone that, like, could go on the internet and check everything, I was blown away. Because I always had the Nokia burner phones. You know, you could send like, you know, you could send two line text messages, no pictures, you know, but they were indestructible. You could fucking run those things over with a tank. Text had just come out in, that would have been 2005, 2005, because it was like a year or so before I got arrested. And I remember having my phone and text showed up on my phone. And I was like, this says call me. Like, the fuck is that?

What did that come from? What did it? And I texted some guy. He was like, yeah, what's up? And you get with this phone number. I was like, hey, what's going on? He's like, what is this? How did you do that?

You put some on my phone. You put a message on me. He said, yeah, yeah, they do that now. It's a new thing that I was like, oh, okay. I mean, it's, I remember the first time I used it for fraud, I was baffled, you know, that you could actually go online and check and, you know, you can use cryptocurrencies. you can check messages from, you know, the darknet, I was like, this has to be illegal somehow. I was, I couldn't believe that it was even possible. Yeah, this can't be possible.

There's guys now that are sitting, will sit in a Starbucks and do everything that I did where I had to drive downtown, search public records, get them to print the documents off, get the documents, go back to my house, or go to a Kinko's, copy that, scan the documents, copy the document, then I'd retype them, then I had to do that. print them back out that I do all these things that I had to do drive back I had to file it I to do this I did all these things that I was driving all around town now there's some guy sitting in Starbucks just using their yeah using their stuff to just do everything on there's yeah just that's so crazy he doesn't go downtown he just downloads it he retypes it he does this he

uploads it he pays for it with a fucking card a debit card that in somebody else's name he does right right opens a bank account online that you know everything's being done everything's the analog way. Yeah. And I'm where it's like, wow, like if I had this kind of technology, I would have been extremely dangerous. Oh, you probably would have killed it. I'd have never gotten out of prison. It would have been a lot more money and I still would have got caught and I still ended up for...

Do you think that scam is still pretty popular? It's more popular than that. Now? Now it's more popular. And not just so popular. Listen, there's such a rash of them in Florida recently that Hillsborough County had a meeting of like eight or nine different counties throughout Florida where they sent two and three detectives. So I went and talked in front of 40 detectives to explain the process. Then they had me come back two weeks later and I explained it to

almost all of the heads of the public records offices throughout Florida. Throughout Florida. I had to go and explain the whole thing. And they were just like. Well, because I mean, at face value, there isn't anything wrong. I mean, how? No, and there's no way to stop it. Even if you thought, hey, this document, I feel like something's fraud. with this document. They still, by law, have to record it. It's a public recording system. That's it. By law, you can't call anybody. You can't check it. You're not allowed to. Right. If somebody comes in and says, hey, you guys filed this deed incorrectly and, or this deed, and it's a fake deed. And what do I do? They'll say, I, you probably should talk to a lawyer. Well, what lawyer? We can't recommend a lawyer. Should I call law enforcement? Probably. What law enforcement? Who should I go to? We can't tell you that. Like, they're not allowed to give advice. They're recording system. Right, right. So it doesn't, you know, if it's got a notary, everything signed correctly, the document looks correct, we got to record it. That's so crazy. And we can't help you, even if we think something's wrong. We can look at the system and tell there's an issue with all

of these different, this happen, that, you know, whatever the case may be, there's satisfactions, there's transfers of the deed multiple times, there's this, all these things are fucked up on this title. So what are you going to do? What do you mean? We're going to record the deed. Wow. We can't do anything. We can't call anybody. We can't ask it. Any questions? Nothing. How did they end up catching on? Because the homeowners that you... Oh, at some point...

Some point? You drive by your house or somebody shows up at your house with a U-Haul van or you drive by your rental property or suddenly you drive by your vacant piece of property and you notice they're putting in a foundation. You're like, what's going on? We're building our new house. Why you bought this property six months ago? The fuck you did.

That's my property. That's so crazy. Or somebody borrows money on your house and one day you check your mailbox and guess what? what there's a there's a foreclosure notice and you're like what what's going on you know and listen i've done it before i borrowed four mortgages in a guy's name while he lived in that house hillsborough county came and grabbed him brought him downtown a question him for four hours wow saying what the fuck did you do you got four mortgages on your house we know you're doing this we know you're doing that he's he has no he has no he has no idea like what are you talking about this is

my house they're like you got four mortgages right you open up these bank accounts we can see this we can see that he's like what are you talking about wow that's amazing and he lived there it's not like it was a rental property he lived i did it while he was in the house wow you know what was what was really fucked up is had i gone through the whole process like i was going to i was going to mail everything to him so i was going to drop the cell phones and everything off on his front door clearly this is this guy had been in prison multiple times like i didn't have any sympathy for him right i was going to drop off the self i was going to repackage the cell phones that i use repackage them wipe them down clean them off repackage them

drop the boxes off at his front door and then I was going to take like the laptop where you put everything back in the laptop drop it off of the like basically like if you came outside and you saw a laptop sitting on your front doorstep

and you saw a phone phones what are you going to do I'm not touching that no you're going to pick it up the fuck's going on you're going to bring it inside you're going to sit it on the counter right you're going to figure out what's delivery wrong delivery

I'm going to deliver some of the stuff that I'm going to put some of the paperwork I'm going to put in his, in his mailbox. He's going to walk by one day. He's going to take it. And I had pagers and shit, right? I was just going to pick up the pagers and throw them in his backyard, you know? So I figured either he'll, he'll find them and probably bring them and like, what are these

pagers doing in the backyard? And he's going to bring. And so he's going to have all this. He's going to have pretty much. When it fall apart. And just beforehand, I was going to call him on his cell phone a few times. Just call up as a solicitor. Hey, by the way, such and such.

We're giving away. first I was going to try and tell him we're going to send you a free phone right so and that way he'd expect the box right so then he actually brings it inside but even if he said no yes or whatever even if he said go fuck yourself I don't want your free phone I would have put it

there anyway he's still going to bring it inside but if he had said yes then I would have dropped it off and you know and told him that it's a phone you know I would have called him hey did you get the phone okay great by the way it's already loaded you can use it and on that phone I would have already called him from the phone from the phone so it has a

record of that number or you know so the cops are going to be like you got three phone calls even you don't know who this is you got three phone calls and you get the phone in your house right right so there's no way you can dispute he's going to he would have had a lot harder time in that during that four hours than he actually had if i if i had gone through the whole thing right there's no way that i mean i got caught mid scam you got caught mid scam so i um but had i gone through the whole thing all the bank accounts would have been opened in his name everything so he would have had seven or eight bank accounts opened in his name he would have had four or five hundred thousand dollars that would have been laundered through the bank

house money pulled out of the bank he would have had all the devices that were used to create these things the laptop would have had copies of the deeds that were showed that were typed out the the satisfactions every document that had been provided anybody w2s paystips everything would have been on there wow now i would have erased them but they would still be on the hard drive so it's like okay i'm going to delete this so he can't see it because he's not a computer expert but when they grabbed the laptop and they ran a surf they're going oh that's funny you tried to delete it, but they was still on the harder. It's still there.

Yeah. So there's, how are you going to dispute any of that? No, nothing. Listen, bro. It's like, you're so fucked. I know. I would have put money on his books.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. He didn't have five or six years. He'd have been fine. Yeah, he's all right. It's horrible, right? Well, I mean. You know, coming from another scam stuff.

He'll be all right. He's been in jail several times. He was a douchebag. It's just money from the bank. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God.

Do you imagine getting out of him to pay back, $500,000 of money after spending multiple years in prison. And now he's got to make restitution payments. No. They might have taken his house. No, no thanks. Actually, well, I remember seeing the American Greed episode about you like 10 years ago. Right.

I was like, man, like that is we just that is a real scam. Like that we like, what was it 50? 55 million total. It was 55 million dollars total like, dude, that's, that's impressive. That's seriously. It's like, that's fast. We just did a review of my dateline. Zach and I just watched the whole date line.

Really? Yeah, and did a whole review. What's so funny is, like, some girl would show up on the dateline, and she'd start talking, like, I trusted him. And he, and Zach would be like, oh, and I'd be like, don't do that. What do you do? And he'd go, she trusted you, you know. Well, I remember they had one of the testimonials, this could be wrong, but you left some

sort of artwork in their house. house and they thought that you were doing that. And they thought I was mocking them. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It was a paper mache statue of a guy screaming. But the truth is, I didn't leave it. Like the guy said, I came home and their paperwork was strewn all over the house.

And the house was trash. And in the middle of the living room was with all of the documents spread around him, was the statue. Right. Right. And that's not true at all. Like, I had left the statue in the, in the garage. And the paperwork, we had in the files sitting. on the counter. And the house wasn't trashed because I only had bedroom furniture in the house.

In the house. I never furnished the house. I'm using it as a, you know, as a means to borrow the money. So it's like the house was in trashed. We never walked into the house. We never went into any of the other rooms. Like it's not like we're walking around. We had furniture. We trashed it. We went into the kitchen, the bathroom and the, and the bedroom. We spent about three months there to set up the scam and get out like what else? You were, you were barely there. Right. So how could it have been trashed? Like, what was trashed? I remember, I remember seeing that. It was like, you know, they tried to make it seem like he was like, oh my gosh. Yeah.

The whole house was fucked. And then he left this, you know, mausoleum of, you know. He mocked to me. Mocking, you know. It's like, come on. Yeah, I have better things. That shit made me laugh. That should make me laugh.

And then you were on the run with Rebecca Halk, right? Yeah. Yeah. That must have been fun. It was not fun. She was horrible. She was horrific. Well, being on the run with people sucks.

Oh my gosh. I can't, yeah. Well, I mean, I like to travel solo because it's just like. It's just so much extra drama. And we, I mean, but we had plenty of money, but she had just mental problems. She was bipolar. She's up and down. She's smoking pot to kind of regulate herself.

Right, right. I got her on medication. She wouldn't take the medication. She would take it for like two months. Well, not even that. Maybe a month. And then she would get off it because she was like, I feel fine. Like, of course you feel fine.

Because you're taking the drugs or you're taking the medication. And the real problem was, she was like, I don't ever feel super happy like I used to. Right. Right. Right. You feel like a normal person. Right. And most people don't ever hit that manic phase where they suddenly think they're a movie star and they're amazing and they're wonderful. And they don't ever get that euphoric feeling that people that bipolar do. Right. Right. The high, the extreme highs and extreme lows. But you're also. She's also not at the bottom either. Right. Right. Like you're also not suicidal and wanting to kill people. So that's where we want you in the middle. And now she didn't want to do that. Right. I mean, that's, I mean, I sort of thought like that too. Like, I was like, why are people depressed? Like, if you just, you know, just use drugs. Yeah. Then he won't be depressed. Like all these like, you know, traumatic, you know, events that happen. I'm like, dude, just fucking just shoot dope. Dude, you're good. I was going to say, I had a buddy name Rudy who was also bipolar. And Rudy used to say, I'd be like, bro, why don't you just get on drugs? He goes, ah, fuck that. I've tried that. I'm like, why? I said, you know, why you just get, you know, medication? I'm not drugs, but medication. Right, right, right. And he was like, listen, he's like, because the highs are so good he said i accept the lows he goes i'll give you two lows for one high that's how good the highs feel and i was like you're a basket case bro like that's insane you're like you're talking about wanting to kill yourself like the only reason you're you haven't killed

yourself is because who's going to take care of your your your dogs wow and he's like you're not going to take care of my like i'm not i'm not not not going to do that so i'm going to take him to the dog pound is what I'm going to do and nobody's going to, they're two old dogs and nobody's going to pick them up. And in three months from now, they're going to fucking, they're going to euthize them. So yeah, you're right. You need to take some drugs and keep yourself up or moderate, whatever. I mean, it's different. No, it's super difficult to deal with people that it's like, you know, they're not rational. No, they're not rational. It's just erratic behavior, you know, it just causes, it can cause so many other, you know, issues. Yeah, Becky would have, I mean,

Beck's got a chick that will burn the whole house around, or down around her. Right. Set the whole house on fire and stand in the middle of the living room just because she's angry and just... Right, just because everything else is just, you know, fucked. You're going to die. What are you doing? What are you? I don't care. I don't care. You're like, what's happening? I mean, that's how my ex was in Vegas. I mean, she hit me in the head with a frying pan one day and split my head open. Another time she pulled a knife on me. Yeah. You know, and she's just like, you know, running around acting all crazy. And I'm just like, you know, I'm not a very violent person. I'm just kind of like, I just got to get the fucking. Right. Yeah, I got to get the fucking. Yeah, I got to get to get that. out of here. I'm out of here, dude. Like, I'm out, you know, and I'm, like, driving around, just, like, trying to get away from this crazy-ass bitch. Yeah, I was going to say,

are we ready? We need to go. We need to get back on topic. Let's, sorry. At the end, I was going to say, what's funny is, yeah, the whole time when Becky would start getting crazy, all I could think of, I got to get out of here, I got to get out of here, I got to get out of here. Like, I'm right, and then I take off. Right, you're just, I need to go. She'd be like, run away, run away, just right. Of course I'm running away. Well, you're fucking psycho the cops are on their way somebody's two in the morning and you're screaming at the top of your lungs some we're in a nice

neighbor we're in a nice building somebody's called the cops I promise you right right right you know and we're on the run we're both on the run we're both wanted I can't have the cops showing up here no definitely not there was one time I was in I guess it was like Boyton Boyden area

I was seeing this girl she lived down there she had a storage unit she you know like one of these you know you storage or whatever companies And, you know, it was one of these trips where I was going down spending the bills, getting gift cards, whatever, and then just sort of chilling there. I used to surf a lot, so I'd be surfing, you know, whatever. And we ended up staying too late. Like, there was like a 9 p.m. cutoff for this storage unit. And so my car's parked outside.

I have two printers, you know, I don't know, like $4,000 or $5,000 in counterfeit bills in the trunk. And we're inside in her storage unit going through things, bringing out, putting stuff in the car. Right. So there's this faint alarm. It's like 9.30 p.m. And this faint alarm starts going off. You know, it's like, beep, beep, beep. And I'm wondering, like, is this for us?

You know, I'm wondering if, like, for some reason, maybe we set something off. But we have keys to the storage unit. You know, we're not doing anything wrong, but, you know, we're sitting there. And so I have a box and I go through these two double doors to my car. And there's five armed cops standing there outside. And I almost just dropped the box and turn around and ran. because I have you know I have drugs in the car right I have printers counterfeit bills you know gift cards and I'm just thinking that you know I don't really know

what's happening I'm just like dude I'm so fucked so I'm standing there with this box and they're like they're like what do you like what are you doing here and I was like you know we're just you know I'm here with my girlfriend we're just you know moving stuff out of the out of the storage unit so she go you know they go inside they start interrogating us and they ended up letting us go right well because obviously you're supposed to be there you just made the mistake of staying too right no But it was just like one of those, you know, instances where it was like if I, you know, yeah, yeah, that you could have been caught.

I could have been, you know, completely fucked over something so, you know, trivial is just being a storage. They're just, you know, you know, cops are used to, you know, that when they're kind of looking around, they're used to, you know, they're looking for like a gun. They're looking for like a crack pipe. They're looking for like, if it's outside of that realm, then they, they don't even notice. I one time, so I had a buddy one time who was making, you should probably keep all this in, not that part about the crazy, well, whatever. Anyway, I was going to say, I had a buddy one time who was making LSD. Really?

Yeah, and in St. Bart's. And now he actually had, like, he had researched where the lightest sentences were. Oh, for being caught for making LSD. Oh, you can get like 30 years to life. Yeah, I've always heard that it's a big, it's a big deal. is a big deal went down there set up a lab he's making it he used to and he would mail it or ship it in or even bring it in and he would send it to these girls that would go around to grateful dead concerts and sell it for like 20 bucks a hit right so he's down there and he comes through one time

he said with he said so you you blot the paper right you have like a thing you just put the blots on these little square papers and and so the paperwork has little his i think had a little onks on it. Okay. All the little, all the little square tabs, right? Right, right. And he's going through. He's like, I got a stack of them, right? Like, he's like, I got like, whatever, a thousand, two thousand hits or something. He was a stack of these papers. Wow. And he said, I went right through customs. I got pulled over to be searched. The woman goes through my bag and pulled that out. And she said, she kind of goes, and she went, what's this? And he goes, I'm a graphic designer. And she goes, and just kept going. Yeah, boom, goes, yeah, eventually he puts everything out. Okay, fine. Boom. You can go.

And let him go. You know, and she was holding what was probably, you know, 50,000 or $100,000 worth of LSD. Jesus. I wonder if half an hour later she started tripping. I was going to say, you know, it's funny. He's the same guy that one time he got pulled over. So he, they were, they had, so the paper, or the, he had put the LSD was in a shot glass. Okay.

And he said, so we were dabbing, you know, whatever they were doing with little, a little. eye dropper doing all the paperwork the night before or the night before right he said well there was still a little bit in the shot glass he's well i took the shot glass and put it in the console right so it's sitting there right he said well you know it dried out so there's like a residue at the bottom he said it almost looks like salt okay you know like like a like a salt water that had dried out or something at the bottom no big deal he was but look you have to understand if you were to rub that put it in your mouth he said that's like that's like a 200 hits right there Jesus he said so it's a shit ton of asses. A ton. He's just a residue. And he said, so he got, they were driving in a van.

And you had to look at this guy. He looked like a hippie. I mean, straight like long hair. He's super thin, long straight hair. Everything, exactly what you think a hippie looks like. And he said, he's driving with these, with a couple of girls. I don't think he had a couple of girls. It was like he was him and like a partner or something. But he said, we're driving to a grateful death concert, grateful dead concert in a van. He was like, we look like we have drugs on us. Right. Right. He said, super suspect he said but we don't you know they didn't have anything he said other than that one little bottle he said the girls that sold the stuff for him had already come by and picked it up earlier at the hotel so we're headed to the concert he said we're driving the concert we get pulled over they they want to

search the car he said but luckily like you open the back he's like we had nothing in it like it was like they were like there's like nothing here but the cop there's not a bunch of shit that they're having to go through correct what is this and what is that but they pulled them out and had them standing on the side of the road he said well the cop he said while we're standing there the cop goes what's this and he looked at he said are you guys you've been drinking he's like no no no no

he said that's from last night that was that was in the hotel room he said it was it was just a glass I just brought it in didn't leave in the hotel and he goes the cop goes but the cop put his finger in it went and he said literally when he went like that he and his friend went

like he's like both of us were like oh shit like the Homer Simpson dole he said like we were like we were like oh my god and so he went like that and the guy goes walked over and you know put he was probably i think it was cocaine or something he didn't know what right right and he said um he said okay you guys are good he goes so we get in the van we drive he's

oh we're driving he's they and we'd already told them we're going to the great grateful dead concert right he's like so they go immediately and they're running around the concert looking for the girls to say we all have to get out of here this guy just got dosed himself with 200 fucking hits of acid it's gonna be a problem here any minute now and he said so while we're looking for them and we grab one of them and then we're looking for the other one and we're like you have to get us in your car and take us because our van's over there they're going to grab us of the van right they know the van he said at some point while they're trying to get to

their car through the crowd without being seeing anybody he said the cops there's a couple of cops with the main cop walking around and he's they're like they're holding him he's he's looking like they're trying to get him to point out who they are and and he's all wobbly and shit and he's like I mean I can only imagine when that shit hit he was because it takes a while for it to hit it does yeah it's like 30 45 minutes so he said it was hilarious but he had he that is so much that is so much acid but once again cop did you know it's outside of their kind of their their purview right like he didn't quite know what he's looking at so right he didn't understand and I was going to say one time I got searched and and I was somebody else

like I'm traveling as like I don't know um you know Michael Eckert or something right and this woman, or this, I get pulled over and she searches my bags and everything. And I had an ID that I thought I had lost. But really, I had put it in a CD that was in my bag. Right. You know, the old CD. Yeah, an old CD case. She pulled it out. It was a perfect high end spots for that kind of stuff. And opened it up and saw the ID. And I remember thinking like she's calling me like Mr. Eckert. Right. And the name is in the name. name, let's say, like Joseph Phillips, John Phillips, let's say. And she goes, she said, Mr. Eckert, she goes, what's this doing? And it literally says Phillips on it. She goes,

Mr. Eckers, she goes, what's this doing? You know, and I went, oh, man, I reach over and I snatch it. I don't, you know, I go, oh, wow. I said, I totally, I said, I've been looking for this forever. And she goes, oh, okay. She said, well, here. And I gave it back to her. And she goes, it's in your case. She says, it's in here. Just remember puts it back. And I'm like, so she didn't even look at the name before she just had your picture on it. She's just like, just, you must have lost this idea. Right. If she had even put, you know, one and one together, that's so crazy. I'd have been grabbed right there in the airport. But, you know, and this is the thing. When I say it's a, it was a fake ID. It wasn't even one of the IDs I had gone to the DMV and got. So it's not even a

real ID. Right, right, right. It's literally. If she would have been able to look at it and probably would have been able to say, hey, this is fucked up. Like, wait a second. Right. She could have, you could have grabbed the corner and done a little clicked on it and probably peeled up the, peeled off the fucking, lame in it. Lamin it right off it. You know what I'm saying?

Like she didn't even, she just, huh, what's so, we. Okay. Thank you. That's so crazy. That's so, so lucky. My heart, bum, boom, boom, boom. But once again, they're looking for drugs. Right, right.

Yeah, unless you have something that's like, unless you're acting really sketchier or have something out. Right. I used to make ideas with Teslin, Teslin paper. I mean, you can get it on it, you can get on Amazon. And they actually have it perforated already to an ID size with the rounded edges. So you don't even have to cut them out. They actually sell them in sheets like, they'll have eight or ten ID, you know, perforated IDs already cut out.

The difficult part about it is, you know, centering a printer, you know, to print to that. Yeah, yeah. You know, it takes a lot of time to, you know, get it to the right size. So, you know, but yeah, that's, that's crazy, though. Yeah, it's always, that was a nice thing about having once I would print the information on the laminated paper, you know, in reverse. Right. So you can sandwich it between the, you know, the card, you know, and the transparency. Right.

So it has to be in reverse. It was, it was taking the time to get it so that it was perfect, you know, right where it. So it was actually around the, you know, the perfect corners. Right. And I would always leave, I always leave like something at the bottom and something at the top that you can match up, right? Like it says, you know, Florida ID or Florida driver's license. You want, okay, well, I know if I can get that perfect and then this up here, whatever said at the top, like it was a zero, get the zero and this to line up, then you know what's everything's where it's supposed to be. Right.

But still, you get that and it's funny when you were talking about the glue, I would take like literally take like a glue stick. Yeah. And glue and then I put it in there and then I would take a thing and I'd have to sort. squeegee it out all the bubbles. Yeah. And then flip it over and then I take an exacto knife and just cut around it and cut around it over, you know, a little bit. Over and over and over. Then when it's done, take 220 grit sandpaper and you just buff it a little bit on the side.

So it was perfectly. And then it, they did. They looked amazing. I mean, you can get some really good. I mean, I first started practicing with just, uh, regular photo paper just to see like the quality of things. Right. But you can get pretty good, you know, looking IDs with, you know, printing. it's yeah yeah the most difficult thing was getting holograms you know something that looked like a hologram

but again you can also order holograms you know and it's not like a state hologram right but some sort of hologram to overlay so at least when they you know when they're looking at it and they you know the light hits it it looks like it's you know right well i was going to say it's professional back then with that id was it a florid is a florida is yeah yeah this is not the new florida id but this was before they changed it. So back then it had, it said, you know, I think it's a state of Florida at an angle, like a 90 degree angle over and over and over again, you know, maybe four times. Right. And when I, so when I would etch out all of the information, you know, by, I take the sandpan, well, you know, I'd actually etch it out with like an Xacto knife. Right. And then I would

buff it a little bit here and there. Well, when you put the new information on top of it, you can still see the Florida ID. Now, it's not going over the information, but it's so rubbed out in those spots. It really just looks like an ID that you had in your pocket. Right. Something that's been old, you know, old and used. Yeah, two years old, some of the,

but you could still hold it up and you could see parts of Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida. So you'd see it over my face. You'd see it partially going through the information section. So people would go, you know, they would look at it. Oh, okay, here. Yeah, it just looks like it's worn. I mean, that was the same thing,

I used Virginia, New Jersey, and Arizona licenses a lot. Right. Because there was, you know, there wasn't any 3D window. There wasn't, you know, any of these crazy raised, you know. Right. You know, nowadays it's like, you know, your, your signatures raised, you know, maybe the states raised, they have these 3D hologram windows, you know, the UV lights. I mean, it's just, it's, it's insane how difficult, how complex some of them have gotten.

I can't imagine trying to, like you really have to go to one of these, you have to go to somebody who's got the equipment. Oh, absolutely. To do it now. Like, I was, I was on the verge. Like, I was one idea away from being able to do that. Right. You know, right.

And once they change it, like, I look at the ones now. I'm like, there's no fucking way you can do. You have, you have to go to somebody who has the equipment. Right. Oh, absolutely. I just saw one of the new Virginia ideas. And it's, I mean, and they just switched, I guess it was in 20, I don't know, 2015.

They had, you know, came out with a new template. Right. And then now they have another new template. And it's just, you know, that's almost impossible. That's why I would say it was just, it was just, just became easier to just go to the DMV. Right. Just, it's easier to trick the DMV to give you one than it is to figure out how to do them yourself. Right.

I never did that with the DMV personally, but it was, it was easy to make, you know, other doc, you know, birth certificates. It's easier to forge that kind of stuff and get. Exactly. Same thing with like credit cards. I never got IDs doing that system, but it was easier for me to make, you know, a birth certificate, a social. And sometimes I'd use passports instead of. driver's licenses because most people, they don't really, they don't really know what passports look like because they're not looking at them all day. So you can change the numbers and information

and they just assume that it's real, especially when it's, you know, photocopied or if you take a photo and fax it or email it to somebody, they don't, they don't have any clue. So it was very easy to sort of change all that. I was going to say it's like less than 5% of people in the U.S. I think ever leave the U.S. Right. Right. And I was going to say it's funny too because back then when I would go use a credit card there was a there was a chance 20 or 30% chance they'd ask you for your ID yes you have your ID right nobody asked you for your ID no not now not now and nobody calls like nobody ever called like used to be you'd swipe your card and they might you know if the credit card company might come back and tell them to call yes like American Express you would call American

Express and they go oh sometimes they put you on the phone sometimes they just say I need to see your ID or what's your last four of your social right you know none of that happens now it's like boom give me my stuff yeah it's people they get offended when they ask for that kind of stuff i mean there used to be you know codes at cash registers there was i don't remember the system but it's let's just say it's codes one through one through 10 right and so depending on what code came up for the card that you used you know sometimes it would be like hold you know hold this card call for verification sometimes it was just you know denied or you know can you imagine back in the 70s and where they take your card you'd be literally you would be at the count at the register and they would

tell the person take the credit card and they'd say i'm sorry i have to hold the card because it used to say i don't know if it still does on the card it would say that this is property of the card of the um of the issuer right like it's this is property of the bank so the cashier had the right to say nope the bank wants their card back right you couldn't do anything now of course that's humiliating and embarrassing so they wouldn't dare do that now But back then, in the 70s and 80s, they would take your card. That's so crazy. Take that motherfucker's card.

Did you imagine? That'd be so embarrassing. That'd be the worst. I mean, now, I think the biggest, the biggest problem I ran into is they would ask, they'd have to have a manager put in the last four of the card. Right. Which, you know, I mean, that's super easy because you should have these cards embossed. With the exact number.

You know, a lot of times, or at least in 2013, we would use, you know, gift cards. you know, 50 and $100 or, you know, whatever, $500 visa gift cards, you know, and they weren't bossed, you know, and so you would have to take off the numbers with, you know, rubbing alcohol and then, you know, you want to emboss the proper number onto the card so you can, you can avoid that. But a lot of times, you know, you get lazy and you wouldn't do that. And so then they, you know, they're looking at a card that, you know, has, you know, eight three, two, one. And then, you know, the actual card that's running is, you know, 4-4-37 or something like that you're like

He talks about he talks about like he they wouldn't even have You know they it they changed like maybe the name or they wouldn't change much of anything He's like you just it'd go through you know it was fine you knew it'd go through or it'd be denied you'd walk off And he talked about one time he had printed a MasterCard's information on a visa on a visa So yeah vases for master cards is is starts with five and in the the chick swiped it it went through And she said she says huh She was looking at, she goes, this says it's a visa. And Boziat goes, yeah, yeah, it's a Visa MasterCard.

That's how they're doing it now. And she goes, oh, okay. And just handed it to him. He gave me my $120 pair of t-shirt or tennis shoes and I walked out. He's like, I was like, he said he was with his brother. And his brother goes, man, you're fucking slipping, dude. You're slipping. I mean, I can't believe I did that.

I mean, that was a pretty slick recovery, though. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. I mean, you know, because you're going to freeze up. Or you're just like, no, no, no. They just, that's how it works. It's so, it's so. The new collaboration card.

It's so funny to hear him, uh, tell the story. He's, they were like a target or something one time. And they, he said he went, he said he went up to, oh, he gave a credit card to this chick. Um, they were buying something. They were buying a bunch of, uh, stuff for like, you know, game boy or something. Not game boys, but they were buying like, he said, you don't, you buy, like the accessories. Okay. And they would sell them, they put them on eBay.

They had a whole little thing going where they were selling. And, you know, they got 14 of these and 13 of these. They just keep putting them up. Right, right. And he said, so we're buying, whatever the accessories are. He said, we're buying it. He said, as soon as the guy, he did it, the guy was like, looked at him and picked up the phone and said, hey, you know, code four. You know, register 12, code for.

So it said something like that. And so he looked over at his brother. He said, I immediately pick up my cell phone, like, I'm going to make a call. And I look at my brother and I go, like that, like, let's go. Like, we have to. go. He said, but he goes, my brother's not paying attention. He's looking at other stuff at a thing and he looks over and he goes, he said, he didn't

realize I'm saying, hey, hey, he goes, so I turn around immediately and start walking. He was, my brother sees me go like this and thinks I'm making a call and just turns around and keeps looking, not realizing. We have to get the fuck out of here. Right. He says, so I start walking. He says, I'm walking, thinking he's right behind me. He goes,

I'm walking. He says, and as I'm coming up on the door, he's like, and I can hear someone running and flip-flops. He says, he said just as I kind of turn his brother goes run and he bolts right through the door you know through the door opens and he runs he's right through the door and he said so I immediately run out the door and go left he said one guy goes after his brother he said the guy grabbed me and I just twisted and kept running and so he misses him he was but my brother's flip-flop blew out and he fell

and the guy jumped on him and so he said I ran he jumped over a bunch of fences he said I jumped over over a bunch of fences he's the guy he was like i didn't even look back he's i don't know what if he even made it over the first fence he said but i got away right then i came back later and jumped in my car and left and i he said it took all night i kept checking to see what happened to his brother chris right because assuming they i mean though they arrested him for sure yeah yeah so i'm checking he said it wasn't until like one o'clock in the morning when it showed up he showed up on the system being arrested he said i go get him uh he said i go get him a bondsman i bond him out he's like you know there he's like i go

He gets in the car, slams the door and turns to him. He's like, you fucking left me, motherfucker. He's like, I listen to you. I tried. I gave you the nod. I was trying. I gave you the nod. Yeah, the nod shake, man.

Let's go. He's like, you turned around and just walked. He's like, I nodded. Dude, that's crazy. There was a couple, I mean, there's a couple times where, you know, you're in getting electronics, you know, because that's the easiest thing to flip, you know, Apple products, you know, laptops. And you're trying to buy too much stuff, you know, because.

Because, you know, let's say you have a $5,000 car. You're trying to run it as quick as possible. You're trying to do it as quick as possible because a lot of times people will do these test runs, which is not the way. You don't want to, you know, get a card and run it for, you know, at the gas station for 40 bucks and then go, you know, get McDonald's. You just want to go big because those types of purchases can can block the card. Right. But then you go into an electronics store and you're trying to buy, you know, $1,800 worth of stuff and you're, you know, looking all, you know, drunk. Sketchy.

Sketchy and, you know, drunk, drugged out, you know, people. they sort of catch on on that kind of stuff, you know? But that's a good, that's a funny story. It's a good story. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching.

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