Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How I Caught The Times Square Killer

Starting point is 00:00:00 He said, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. I'm about to hit a white motherfucker with this brick. Picks it up like a hammer strike. Bang! So I found a telephone booth went in there, turned around in three circles, and came out, dun-da-da-da.

Starting point is 00:00:13 We flanked him. And the guy set up and looked at me in the eye. He made like intense eye contact. And he said, you witness him, bro? Yeah. And I said, damn. There's an article on him in GQ. I was born in Chicago, Illinois.

Starting point is 00:00:30 I was born in a manger on the south side of Chicago, Illinois. No, I was born on the south side of Chicago, Illinois. What about your mom and dad? Mom and dad. Mom was a bureaucrat, worked for Social Security. My father was a tax accountant. I always call him Joe Jackson of income tax, because when I was 10 years old, he used to bring me into his office

Starting point is 00:00:52 and taught me how to do taxes and navigate a 1040 and a Schedule C and all these things. I'm surprised I don't have a nose job in a pet money, Because, you know, I wanted to go outside and play. He'd be like, get in here and get a 1040. So I was always in his office doing taxes. And my brother friends, they were, because my brother's, he was nine years older to me. So his friends, they were at working age.

Starting point is 00:01:16 They were working. And I would do their taxes when I was 10 years old. And they would always say, Jason, how can you get us some more money back? And I found his little loophole, the Michael, the Matt Cox of me came out. I found this thing where if a child's with you for more than six months of the year, you could claim head of the household. And some of them did have children. And they were able to claim head of the household and get a bigger tax refund.

Starting point is 00:01:43 Yeah. Yeah. So Cadillac, you should thank me. Send me a check because they all spend their money on cars. You know how that goes. Southside of Chicago in the 80s and 90s. No, it wasn't. I mean, it was cool if you're from there and you know there, right?

Starting point is 00:01:56 If you know the area. But that's when gangster rap became popular. It's never sounded cool to me, by the way. No, it was. It was because we had a community and you could go to the park and play basketball and the gangbangers in the neighborhood. If you were a school kid or athlete, they really left you alone. They wouldn't let anyone mess with you. Like, hey, leave him alone.

Starting point is 00:02:16 He's going to school. Leave him alone. He's playing ball. But then gangster rap came in and it started getting a little more vicious. Right. A little more vicious, you know, everybody, guys were started. So there were the D-boys that, you know, they were known in the neighborhood because they had money. They had cars, whatever.

Starting point is 00:02:35 But then the killers started becoming popular. Like, you know, so-and-so just somebody was like, oh, what? Really? That sounds good. Yeah, yeah. And there was quite a few. They had a lot of status in the neighborhood for sure. Well, not status.

Starting point is 00:02:50 They were feared. They were very, very feared. Your parents had professional jobs. What do you live in this neighborhood for? Because it was our community at the time. eventually moved out when I was around 12 or 13. They got divorced. And then we moved to a neighborhood called Bronzeville in Chicago, which is like a very

Starting point is 00:03:08 professional black, it's like an upper middle to upper middle class black neighborhood. And we moved down there from 71st. But like, oh, my finest memories were on 71st. And then there was this gang in Chicago, huge gang, but they split into two. But our neighborhood, you know, they were still cool. Everyone went to school and they knew each other. But then they started beefing and I lived like right between the middle of the two gangs and it was horrible man.

Starting point is 00:03:36 It was horrible. You start hearing gunshots where you never hear gunshots, never heard gunshots before. And the violence just picked up around like, let me say, 87 to about 91. It just picked up like I've never seen before. Okay. But you're going to, you're still, well, you're still in school. I'm still in school, but so I wasn't in school in the neighborhood. I went to a language academy in Chicago, so I would get picked up by a school bused up by a school bused out to this language academy in high park, Chicago, where I would go in there and say,

Starting point is 00:04:11 Guten Morgan, Ikeiser Jason, sprekenze Deutsch. And we learned German. I learned German from K through eighth grade. And I would get bus in this neighborhood and come back. And I was like, like sometimes it would be on my mind. So I would say, ah, vases los. And they'd be like, what the fuck you just say? I'm like, oh, my bad.

Starting point is 00:04:30 I'm thinking, what's up in German from school? Why German, I mean, why a language school? I don't understand. Like, how did that end up? Well, because in Chicago, it's called a magnet school. So they have a very strong mathematics program, English, and foreign language. So they sent me there. And plus the neighborhood school, I mean, it was okay, but it wasn't.

Starting point is 00:04:52 I wouldn't be speaking German if I live there. Right. I told you, I was doing taxes when I was 10 years old, hustling my brother's friends. The statute of limitations are up on. Yeah, sure. Okay, thanks. I was a minor anyway.

Starting point is 00:05:05 Most are three to five years. Yeah, I was a minor. Can't get me. So, all right, so what happened? I didn't cheat. Wait, hold on. Let me say that it wasn't any cheating. It was a loophole.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Yeah. You're still, I was going to say, you're still signing the documents. You know what I'm saying? The guy who files the taxes, you know, like if I'm fine, even if you prepare them, I'm the one signing. Right, right, right. I'm the one in.

Starting point is 00:05:34 But I used to sign them as the preparer. But my father taught me to loophole through that. He would have them sign a disclaimer that says all the information on the taxes. Was provided by that. I provided by this guy and to the best of my knowledge. And this was at 10 years old. And then sometimes he would have me sign off on some of his client's taxes. And I was like, oh, it was at a one.

Starting point is 00:05:54 once he's really doing some shit on because I can't get time for it. So he's like, my son did it, do it. Yeah. It's a mistake. He made a mistake. He's young. All right. So what happened then that's, you graduate, where you graduate high school and? Elementary. So I was in the language academy. That was elementary. That was K through 8. That was K through 8. It was so back on 71st, the huge turning point I could remember was around maybe 91, 92. It was a guy named Bobo. Bobo. Bobo Alto. We used to call him Radio Rahim.

Starting point is 00:06:27 He would walk around the neighborhood with a boom, box, boom, boom, big muscle-bound guy. He was, gosh, I don't know the politically correct word, mentally impaired slightly. Okay. And his older brother was in, I think, the BLA or some black militia and ended up getting killed by the police in the early 70s. Okay. Fast forward, he always had this irrational fear of the police. One week he got beat up by the police. Ice swollen out the here.

Starting point is 00:06:56 Next week, as after school, I look out the window. I'm hearing sirens. I'm hearing the whole neighborhood marching to his house. They'd go in his house and he was murdered by the police. Yeah, right in front of his brother. Doesn't sound irrational at all. But that was a big turning point in neighborhood. It felt like it got a little colder at that point.

Starting point is 00:07:16 Okay. A little colder, more serious. Right. A lot of heartache and pain, yeah. Bobo. I don't know where this is going. No, I'm like having flashbacks to that time. I feel like the gangsters got a little more gangster.

Starting point is 00:07:32 And that's when I found out where the dick boy was. That's what they used to call a detective, the dick boys. They would jump out the car and throw like the kids on the wall. And then I turned around one time. And they're like, not you, motherfucker. You're not going to this language academy. Take your ass home. He said, Alvita Zane.

Starting point is 00:07:47 And so I was in college. And before I graduated, I was at a mall in Chicago called Water Tower shopping. center and this man approaches me his man he walks up and say oh wow you have very nice cheekbones all right i got to go yeah you're in shape and you work out how often do you work out i'm like had this happened to me had this happened to me many times in prison yeah oh yeah he offered to buy your some tennis shoes from commissary you know it's like no he gave me a honey bun no no no he gave me his card and he was a modeling agent and so i'm like wow is this guy trying to like what's going on so i showed my mother when i get home she said well call him find out like what's the worst

Starting point is 00:08:24 happen. I find them or call them find out, talk to them. Next week, I'm shooting a photo, I'm doing an ad for Coles Department Store. Really? Yeah. I shot my first app for Cole's department store on West Alice, Wisconsin. It's like maybe two hours out of Chicago, an hour from Milwaukee. And from there, I was in school and I was doing accounting and spreadsheets. And I said, you know what? I want to do this shit. And I moved to New York and started doing print modeling. And that's how I ended up in New York City. I started doing print and I shot a lot for Coles and Fat Farm and GQ. I was a playgirl centerfold.

Starting point is 00:09:00 Get out of here. No final nudity, though. No final nudity. You know Wayne Williams is? No. The Atlanta serial killer who was killing children. Right? Right.

Starting point is 00:09:11 It was Wayne Williams? Yeah. That's what he would do. He would walk around. He had flyers. He'd be like, hey, you got a nice voice. He's picking up. Let's go to my studio.

Starting point is 00:09:20 And get him in the car. And then he'd drive off and strangle these little kids. and dumped their bodies. So when somebody walks up and says, hey, you got a good jaw line. I like your eyes. Here's my car. My first thought is, uh-uh.

Starting point is 00:09:32 Yeah. No, look, how about my car? Let's go back to my studio. Fuck off. That's not happening. Damn, man. Yeah, that's the first thing I would think of. Fuck, now I'm,

Starting point is 00:09:40 that gives me something else to be paranoid of it. Because I was so young and goofy at that time. Wayne Williams. Yeah. You got to look it up. Murder men. We just did an episode on it. Wayne Williams.

Starting point is 00:09:50 Wow. Something like that was in the back of my mind. Like, yeah, I was like, what is this guy trying to? But he was legitimate and it worked out. How does, how do you, do you get an agent when you go to New York? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:02 So, I, call you and say, hey, Playgirl wants to. So at the time, so I started doing stand-up comedy because one of my agents said, hey, you want to cross over and doing commercials, you started doing stand-up comedy because casting directors, they're at the comedy club. Were you already, like, funny? Did you already? Not, no. You wasn't even on your radar?

Starting point is 00:10:21 Not on my radar at all. But someone from Playgirl was at one of the shows and said, hey, we're doing this thing called the Hot List and we'll make you the hot comic. So they were like, oh, it's Jason Cross. He's a hot comic. That was just a headshot. Then I got a call like six months to a year later. And they said, hey, would you like to do a spread? And I thought about it.

Starting point is 00:10:40 Call my parents. And they're like, you know what? If there's no frontal nudity, why not? You only live once. Live a little bit, son. So yeah, I did it. No frontal nudity. And got a decent payday.

Starting point is 00:10:51 Yeah, being a comic. So you know, so you know what, Kill Tony. Yeah, of course. Who doesn't know that? Well, I didn't. I didn't until I heard, keep on, I just been out of prison a year. Like, I did seven months and a halfway house. I'd been out maybe three, no.

Starting point is 00:11:12 Yeah, let's say three months. And I was in L.A. and my booking agent at the time, a guy named Tyler Sherman, I was there to meet with some people with a solo production companies. Anyway, the point is that while I was there, I was also doing some podcasts, so I did a couple podcasts. I had him set up. And this guy, Tyler calls me and he's like, listen, you're not going to believe this.

Starting point is 00:11:43 I got you on Kill Tony. And I'm like, okay, what's that? He goes, it's huge. What do you mean you don't know? Of course, I don't know, bro. I've fucking been watching maybe six months of YouTube. I don't know anything about YouTube yet. I barely can work my phone.

Starting point is 00:11:56 And so I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, look it up. And I look it's like, oh, look, it's huge. It's a huge opportunity to it. I was like, oh, okay, cool, cool. And I'm like, what is it? He's like, yeah, they kind of said a podcast. They interview people.

Starting point is 00:12:08 And I'm like, it looks different. There's like an audience. There's like an audience. Is this? And he goes, oh, yeah, yeah. He says, so go ahead and you got to do like three minutes. And then they just talked to you and they interview. And I went, okay, what do you mean three minutes?

Starting point is 00:12:22 Well, they're comedians. So you have to get up and you do three minutes of like a comedy, just a little skit. So just get up and do like, tell jokes for like three minutes. And then they'll interview you. And I went, no. He's a word. I go, I don't think so, bro. I can't do a three minute comedy skit.

Starting point is 00:12:40 And he goes, no, no, no, you're funny. I said, no, no. I'm funny in the context of stories. My stories do not wrap up in three minutes. And even if it was a five-minute story and then it had a funny punchline, it's still five minutes and it's one punchline. Comedians don't have five-minute.

Starting point is 00:13:00 Yeah, that's not a three-minute fucking thing. These are, you have to be funny. And I said, you don't understand. And I'll never forget, there was a Barbara Walters interview. And I've mentioned this on the podcast a few times because we've had one or two comedians that you know who Barbara Walters is.

Starting point is 00:13:15 Of course. I don't know. This is what I'm dealing with. He doesn't know who Barbara Walters is? He said, what is she? News lady? Yes. He only knows that because I've heard the story.

Starting point is 00:13:23 She's about with Richard Pryor. So she for, I don't know if it was, I think it was 60 minutes. But so she, they interviewed her, one of her last interviews when she was like exiting or something. For some reason, they interviewed her. It's been a slow, slow day up for a, or slow week for 60 minutes. They interviewed her. And one of the things that they said was one of the questions was, who are some of the, who are some of the smartest people? Or maybe it was who is the smartest person you've ever interviewed, something along those lines.

Starting point is 00:13:56 And she went, I can't tell you like the smartest person. She said, but I can tell you the smartest profession, something along those lines. And they were like, who's that? She was comedians. And they were like, comedians? you've interviewed heads of state. You've interviewed scientists. You've interviewed like, and they were like, and you're saying that comedians, she said, yeah, you have to be very smart to think on your feet that quickly and know that you can come up with a joke and be that intuitive with an audience that you can make almost everyone laugh.

Starting point is 00:14:36 And you have to do it instinctively. She said, I've never, she said, I've interviewed a lot of lawyers that I thought were stupid and politicians that I thought were stupid. She said, I have never interviewed a comedian that I, that they didn't walk away and I didn't think, wow, that guy is super sharp. And I thought, so that didn't help me when this guy said, skill Tony, do three minutes. And I was like, so I'm sitting there terrified. I called up Jess who happened. I knew she, this is my wife. At the time, I was dating her at the time.

Starting point is 00:15:09 She worked with a guy that was a professional comedian, but obviously not that professional because he was still working at a dairy farm. So I called, I'm like, you know, and he didn't have, he was no help. Anyway, so, and she could tell, she's like, when she was talking, this is one of the only times she's ever said that she was like, thought it was funny. And she's kind of giggling. And she's like, you are, you are panic-stricken. She's like, I have never heard you like this.

Starting point is 00:15:36 I'm like, what, what I don't understand? I mean, I'm a stuttering. I'm trying to think of what's funny. I can't think of anything funny. I'm trying to write. And luckily, at the last minute, a meeting I had with a producer, he contacted me and said, hey, this is when you have to be here to meet me and the other producer. And it conflicted with my.

Starting point is 00:15:58 And I had to call up Tyler and be like, this is horrible. I can't believe this has happened. But I did tell you, I was waiting. to see when this thing, and guess what, it's this time? Well, how far is it? Because maybe you can make both of them. No, no. Don't want to be rushed.

Starting point is 00:16:16 Want to make sure I'm there early? I mean, you know, it's L.A. Do you wish you would have done it, though? It could have been a great experience. Sometimes you got to do the things that scared of shit out of you. Of course. And I've done those many, many times. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:25 Or like jump out of plane. Well, I have jumped out of plane. Yeah. Gone to the prison. Yeah. Walked into multiple banks committed many, many, many frogs. But, but. Yeah, so you're a thrill-seekker.

Starting point is 00:16:37 So this should be nothing. No, I absolutely, listen, I would have done it. Right. There was, I wasn't going to not do it. Mm-hmm. I was, as I'm saying, I got lucky that this happened. Gotcha. And I had an out.

Starting point is 00:16:48 Because if I, I, I wouldn't just say I'm not going to do it. I wouldn't, no, I'll walk in and fail. Like, listen, bro, I've been failing my whole life. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not afraid of failing, you know? What story would, what do you have told? I was trying. Yeah, this is interesting.

Starting point is 00:17:04 I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, let's make this about you, Matt. I flew down here. I put myself in a hotel, but let's talk about you. So, no, I was thinking the story about, I was going to, of course, say, hey, you know, I was going to do the whole, hi, my name is Matthew Cox.

Starting point is 00:17:23 You know, I'm a con man. He's recently released from federal prison for bank fraud and a variety of bank fraud-related crimes. And I'm 100% guilty of them all, by the way. They made the right move. you know but recently released currently on federal probation and i was just going to go into here's what i did i was going to kind of tell my story but i was going to tell some of the funny things that had happened like um i was going to mention that uh uh like the like the time that the time that i got

Starting point is 00:17:53 caught committing fraud i was pretending to be and this is the whole thing it wasn't it wasn't long enough like it was i couldn't i was trying to shorten it how quickly can i say this it was basically I had stolen the, I'd stolen the ID of a homeless person. Don't judge me. And I then bought multiple houses in his name. I then borrowed multiple mortgages. I satisfied the loans on the house and then borrowed multiple mortgages on that house. What was it?

Starting point is 00:18:24 Who was it? Washington Mutual? Washington Mutual found out I'd committed fraud. So I went and immediately, they had a lawyer call me and say, hey, we're going to call the FBI. And I said, well, what if I just give you the money back? And they said, do you have the money? I said, I do have the money. I can give you the money back. Hold on. Let me talk to my attorney. I'll call you back. Give me a couple hours. The guy says, okay. I then go to my lawyer at the time, which knew me as Gary Sullivan. And I go there. I meet with the lawyer. I tell him what I did.

Starting point is 00:18:55 I said, but I need to give these guys back. And it wasn't much. It was like $100,000. Like, I got to give them back like $100,000. He's like, okay. He says, okay. And he says, But Gary, you said you borrowed like five mortgages on this house. What if the other banks find out what you did and they want the money back? And I looked at him and I said, well, then I leave town. And that's what they, that's what they did. They both laugh. They go, Gary, Gary, don't you understand?

Starting point is 00:19:21 They said, they've got your name, your social security number, your date of birth. I mean, where are you going to go? They'll find you. And I go, you're assuming my name is Gary Sullivan. And I said, and I, the look on their face was like, they glanced each other and they were like, well, we'll, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I said, right, my immediate problem is getting rid of these fuckers. So I'm going to go get a, and I went and I got $109,000 or something. And they let us like, who?

Starting point is 00:19:50 Oh, you know, I gave me money. Washington Mutual. Because eventually I get caught and I'm like, right. Talk to the FBI Secret Service. They had no idea. So they never called. They took their money, they got their toy, and they went home, which I was able to continue and borrow another fucking half a million dollars

Starting point is 00:20:05 because of that. But I was trying to think of like that story, the story about me. I, you know, the other one that people laugh at, which is horrible. I know it's horrible, but this does make me laugh. Is that one time I stole the guy's identity and then I legally had his name changed. He was homeless? No, no, this was just the guy that called on an ad I ran. This guy was trying to borrow a mortgage.

Starting point is 00:20:27 That was a mistake. And so he gave me this information. I then ordered. That's what it's like, hello, is this Jason Crows? I'm like, who is this? Yeah. They said, we're calling from. Click.

Starting point is 00:20:35 Yeah. So I did that. And then I legally had his name changed. I also got so many tickets in his name. I had to go to traffic school as him. So, you know, so I didn't lose his license. So I was going to try and get all of those kinds of funny stories, right? You should have did it.

Starting point is 00:20:52 It sounds like you would have had a killer set, bro. Or it would have bombed. But either way, I would have, I would have been on kill Tony. and that would have been cool. That'd have been amazing. That's a good resume, booster, you know? Matter of fact, you know, how can, why doesn't Tyler get me? Guys, even right now thinking about doing a three-day-out.

Starting point is 00:21:08 You should do it. You should do it. It's one minute, actually, I believe. Is it? I think it's one minute. Oh, that's even worse. No. That's even worse.

Starting point is 00:21:15 Yeah, because you need setups with the story you're telling. You need to set it off. I don't have those funny stories that people say, it's 20-second. How? That was the trim version. It's possible. I could trim it down again. I could drop it in chat GPT.

Starting point is 00:21:27 I can write it down. I could write it down and say, do this in 50 words. Watch a mutual call. I gave him the money back. Good night. Thank you very much. Thank you. It amazes me how much fog goes on because when I was working at my father's office,

Starting point is 00:21:42 there was another income tax guy there that. Oh, there's tons. I met tons of guys in prison for the income. You know what the black guys call it? What? The drop. Have you heard the drop? No.

Starting point is 00:21:52 What's the job? That's what they call it. The drop where you claim somebody comes in and I file taxes using your information. and then the IRS wires me the money and then I spend it and then you go to file your taxes. And of course they're like, you've already filed your taxes. You got a return. You're like, the drop. I didn't hear it.

Starting point is 00:22:08 No, no. You don't know what that is? No. The guy I'm talking about, he used to find like crackheads or someone and pay the money for their children so that other people can claim them. Oh, no. So I mean, it was a little smoother. Other people can claim it.

Starting point is 00:22:22 That's just, that's just doing taxes. No, but like it's like, wait, hold on one. Last year you had none. Now you have six fucking kids. taken care of, none of them falser kids. But the law is up to six months. As long as they're with you more than half the year, you could claim them as a dependent. Yeah, you're like Andy Dufrain from Shawshank Redemption. Oh, exactly. Yeah. Did you ever see that? Oh, of course. Of course. When he helped out the security guard, then they beat up the, what do they call it?

Starting point is 00:22:50 Not the booty bandit. Yeah, the booty bandits in there that were taking them. It's all bad. that was that was my that was the extent of my knowledge of uh of federal of prison was watching shawshank redemption prior to going that's what i thought prison was like shawshank and duffrain with andy dfram he was like six foot four and he had a hard time what's going to happen to me the sisters yeah the sisters were coming at them soft as cotton me yeah all right so go sorry all right so in new york where are we new york yeah you were play girl at the time yeah play girl and you said you were doing your your agent said hey, why don't you do stand up? And you decided to do it.

Starting point is 00:23:26 How did you think? That's what I'm saying is one. One, I've always thought you have to be super smart to do stand up. It takes a fair amount of intelligence. You have to be knowledgeable about certain things because someone may talk about taxes. And this person may talk about cats and dog breeds. And you have to be able to bring it all together for sure. And work the car.

Starting point is 00:23:48 Work the crowd. Work the crowd. Wow, you're still in fed mode. You say work the car. You're still in a fair mindset. You're institutionalized, bro. I have a buddy who's named Carl Remy. And we went to go see him the other day, and this woman starts heckling him.

Starting point is 00:24:11 Oh, it's fucking horrible. Now, he was great at responding, but sometimes there's just some of the, some are great at hecklers, right? No. But you get to a point where they're drunk and incoherent and there's nothing. Sometimes there's no beating them. No, because they're just not going to shut up and it's ruining the fucking.

Starting point is 00:24:28 It ruins the timing and everything. So finally it gets to a point where you can see he's going back and forth and back and forth. And then he goes, then all of a sudden he goes, he's like, right,

Starting point is 00:24:36 right, I can see where this is going. Security. He just looks up and and these guys, they come walk and they lead over to her and da, she's like, she says nothing.

Starting point is 00:24:46 He's like, we're good. And you could tell. And they were like, they walk back and stand there for a minute and he does another, 15 minutes and then she does say something else and he's like no no I get it I'm actually shocked you made you you stayed silent this long yeah and they go back over they talk to her again

Starting point is 00:25:05 they go back and then he finishes the set but just as he's wrapping up the set he's like hey listen I'm so proud of you he's like you made it another 10 minutes just enough you finished the show you made it that's when you put one at ease and they come in and say can you grab your stuff and get out of here that's horrible bro I'm not horrible for fashion So what'd you do, sit down and write out like a whole thing? So, you know, I started out doing an open mic, which is five minutes, wrote out a whole thing. It was horrible because, you know, you're right what you think is funny.

Starting point is 00:25:35 I think I wrote some stupid Michael Jackson jokes or something or whatever was topic hot at that time. And it was bad. But then the longer you do it, you start developing and growing. You know, the funny thing about stand-up comedy, it takes years just to become yourself, if that makes sense, because you think it's out. here, you're coming out here, and then you're bringing it back around. You're like, oh, fuck, I just have to be me. Yeah, I just have to find the humor in my everyday life and the people around me and every, yeah, yeah. Like, I turned the story that we're talking about into a stand-up bit.

Starting point is 00:26:07 It took me a while because it's like, how do you open up with a guy saying, oh, I'm a hit a white motherfucker with a brick and people, I think people are going to laugh at it, especially with a 90% Caucasian audience. It's like, what the fuck is this guy talking about? Black guys don't go to... Black guys don't go to comedy shows? No, they do, but I mean, you know... I mean, that's a harsh line... No, I mean, black people...

Starting point is 00:26:30 A lot of black people go to comedy shows, but that's a harsh line to, like, start a bitch, you don't think. Right. You're saying the bulk... But the bulk of these shows are, like, 90% Caucasian. Yeah, eight... No, maybe 75. Okay.

Starting point is 00:26:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 75. I know, so it was from Playgirl to comedy and, you know... I fell in love with it. Comedy is addictive. That's why I tell you to, it's like, you know how you say you get addictive to things for short sports? Comedy is something you'll get addicted to because it's like a puzzle, how I'm going to move this word and make this funny. And then it's a catharsis because you get to tell your life story if you're doing it right. Right.

Starting point is 00:27:08 And then you can save money on the shrink now because you can save him. The audience is your shrink now. Do you know who Johnny Mitchell is? Yes, of course. Oh, okay. He is just, I guess it's the same thing because he's like he stopped. doing comedy I think I'm assuming he just stopped whatever the conversation was that we had either he's not doing it as much as he wants or he stopped when he went to austin and because he wants to

Starting point is 00:27:32 move back to l.a and he's like and i'm like why would you move to l.a and he's like you know you first all you moved out of l a l a you know he's talking about moving back and he's like because all the other people move down to austin as well and it's like l a yeah yeah that's another thing like yeah Yeah, you've got the comedy show there and you've got the, or Joe Rogan's got his comedy club. And so, but why, but he's like, I just, you know, I feel like that's where everybody's really blowing up is in L.A. And I really, he's like, you know, how much I miss doing stand up and miss this. And, you know, even though another conversation he had mentioned, he had mentioned to me that he still does it sometimes. So I don't know if he's just completely stopped, but he's desperately.

Starting point is 00:28:13 That's a lot of stand up and awesome, though. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Boom right now. also it might be like number two, number three, number four in the States. Well, he feels like he wants to move to L.A. Because he feels like that's where these, that's where it's happening or something. Because he keeps saying, like, he's like how much he misses it.

Starting point is 00:28:29 And he's like, I miss the crowd. I miss the- It's fucking addictive, man. It's instant gratification. It's not like if you do a movie or commercial. You have to wait to edit it and it comes out. It's like, is this funny right now? And they laugh.

Starting point is 00:28:43 Right. Yeah. Yeah. You're living off your wits at that. very moments. Absolutely. The straight adrenaline, I'm sure. Yeah, this is going to turn to a session of me trying to get you to do stand-up. And people say, I've had people in the comments who have said that. I'm like, you're crazy. All right. Here's it. December 11th and 12th, I'm at coconuts down at St. Pete Beach. Come do some time. Come do five. When is it? December 11th and 12th.

Starting point is 00:29:09 No, I'm not doing five. I'll go and watch you though. Like I'll go and do some. I'll support. I'm not doing tight-fist. It's not going to happen. And I think with our, you can just keep arguing if you want that. I'm not, there's no peer pressure here. I'm not giving in. Do you think you'll get the same kind of endorphin rush from doing a live podcast with a live audience? Oh, absolutely. Hell yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:30 Because we have. About the audience. Hell yeah. Absolutely. Tom Simon, which is a, Tom Simon, which is a retired FBI agent, we do like a game show. And people are constantly saying, bro, you guys should do this live. You guys should do this from what I'm an audience. You should do this.

Starting point is 00:29:46 You guys should. And both of us have agreed to do it. Neither one of us have made really any moves towards it. Were you guys thinking about doing it here in Florida? Yeah. You test it here, right? Yeah, right? You could do it in, you know, whatever.

Starting point is 00:29:59 In Tampa, we're right near, we're in Tampa. Yeah, there's a bunch of comedy clubs down here. Yeah. Well, I don't know if you do it in. Do you think comedy is set it up on a comedy stage that way people could come in or get a theater, either or a comedy show theater. Yeah, I think that's what they were thinking, like how many you rent us. That's what Tom is thinking.

Starting point is 00:30:16 Rent is. I don't rent it. Do ticket sharing. What's that? Where you split the ticket, the revenue, 50, 50, 40, whatever you negotiate. That way, you don't have to put you put up less upfront money. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Then you'll see your name on a big billboard. Gary Sullivan is here tonight. We keep waiting for someone to come forward and help us or take it over. Like, because he's extremely busy. I'm extremely busy. And it's like, do I, I just like I told you, when I walked in the door, like, I had to stop doing all this other shit. I have to stop helping people. I have to stop doing all these side projects because it's, you know, I've got enough.

Starting point is 00:31:00 It's already too much. Like, what am I doing? I'm doing all these side things that. That's what I always say. I said, I have to quit my job so I could work. Yeah. Yeah. I work in education during the day.

Starting point is 00:31:11 I'm a reading and math interventionist. So I work with kids from K through. eighth in Chicago because some of the students are like two or three grade levels behind. Some? Tons of them, right? Not just in Chicago. I'm saying across the nation. My understanding is like it's really bad.

Starting point is 00:31:28 Let me your phrase. I would say most are behind grade levels. So they bring in interventionists and we work with them on phonics and arithmetic and try to bring them up to grade level. But there's so much other stuff going on. Like I'm like, hey, you know, I'm going down to Tampa today for three hours. got to do this interview let's go nice good times good times very good times when having any other way so you're doing con okay so you're sorry back to everybody doing comedy new york city new york city

Starting point is 00:31:56 yes big time you're doing uh centerfolds centerfolds you're doing model yeah you're doing modeling no frontal nudity doing modeling yes something the no form of unloody in there i'm a christian man um uh what else uh I don't know fucking what's wrong with me, bro. And there's no caffeine in this. I could blame it on the caffeine. My mind's all over the place. You know, you said no frontal nudity.

Starting point is 00:32:21 And I keep thinking of that. You ever see the thing where somebody sends you a link to like a newspaper article and you click the link? It's like, bro, you got to read this. This is insane. You click the link and it shoots you to a photo of the black guy with the long cock. You know what I'm talking about? My friend. My friend did that several times to me.

Starting point is 00:32:37 Like everything. He did a full moon with the guy with the cock. Yeah, man. So anyway, quite a few. Yes, I know that went well. So, all right. So what else are you doing? Modeling. Modeling, a majority and start venturing off into commercials and soap operas a little bit. I, Sheila, I love you. You have to stay with me. Yeah. How long did you die off? Did you get a character? No, I mean, I would do like day players. That's where you go on for a day and that's it. I wasn't like a contract role. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:33:12 going and yeah. No, but that didn't feed me like comedy did. Comedy really feeds me emotionally, I swear, just to talk shit and people laugh and clap at it or even get upset, you know? I just want to elicit whatever emotion I do. Sometimes I'll say things and people say, ooh, ooh, oh. And I'm like, you know what? Great.

Starting point is 00:33:33 That's what I, because people come to the show, this catharsis. Most people are pent up. They have all this emotion. They never let out. And they come there to let it out, primarily laugh. after first. But if you get a good, ooh, an awe in his plan, hey, that's just as good. Okay. So you're in New York. Everything's going good. In New York, everything's going good. I'm happy. I'm getting my clothes dry clean.

Starting point is 00:33:54 You know, that's when you move up the ladder when you get dry cleaning, man. You know, no more laundry for me. I was getting dry clean. And I'm going to the dry cleaner. My friend and I, we're going to go to the boxing gym that day. My friend Christian, I said, come with me to get my dry cleaning. So go get my dry cleaning. I come out the dry cleaner. Now, this is a thing I have from 71st being in Chicago. Anytime I come out of door, I look left and I look right. So there's no sneak attack. I look right. Everything's fine. I look left. I see a guy with a brick. I see a guy with a brick. Okay. Here we go. Ding, ding, ding. And as I told you when I was a kid, I saw a lot of people get there. I'll take a line from training

Starting point is 00:34:36 get their shit pushed in with a brick, you know? Right. So I'm like very, all right. My antennas go up. We walk out and a guy, he's coming from the left with a brick and he looks very disheveled. He has like this wow. His hair was very unkept. You could tell he hadn't cut it in like 10, even though my hair was a huge fru and I never cut it, but whatever. And he just looked, whatever, look dangerous. And I gave my friend, he's much smaller guy, gave him a dry cleaning.

Starting point is 00:35:02 And the guy saw me get very defensive because I was boxing heavily at the time. Well, maybe three, four days a week. I was going to the boxing gym. You said, oh, I'm like getting the gym. I'm like, I'm like, I'm a motherfucker finally get to use it. Well, he had this brick. This brick was big as fuck, bro.

Starting point is 00:35:15 Like, actually look up the news article. It was in the paper. It was probably like this big and thick. It was like a 10-pound brick, I would say. And he looked me and eye because he saw it's getting defensive. And he said, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. I'm about to hit a white motherfucker with this brick. And you went, I'm good.

Starting point is 00:35:34 I didn't fit the demographic, so I relaxed a little bit. But, you know, it's like, at that point, I figured he was just a crazy fucker carrying a brick, you know? Because people in New York say crazy shit all the time. This is one time I was walking down the street and this lady said, black man, do you have a bed to sleep in a night? And it's like, yeah, I'm going home. And then it's white lady. And she said, she screamed at the top of her lungs, why does this black man have a place to sleep tonight and I don't? I said, because I went to Murray Language Academy and I could speak German. No, I didn't say that. But so people say crazy things all.

Starting point is 00:36:11 a time. So he says he's going to hit a white motherfucker with a brick. I'm like, all right, this guy's crazy. All right. But I kept eye on him. And I watched them, watched them, watched them, and maybe 20 feet to the right. So I'm looking at him coming from the left. And then it goes past me and 20 feet to the right, which would have been towards east, towards Times Square. Like Times Square was the next street over. I was in Hell's Kitchen. There's a white guy coming with a hoodie on. And the guy grabs the brick, picks it up like a hammer strike, bang, hits the guy on his cheekbone, left cheekbone. And he like dropped, like he let it go when he hit him.

Starting point is 00:36:48 Boom. Dude falls down like a stack of bricks. Like, it, did you ever seen Rocky, what's the one with the Russian? Yeah, yeah. Rocky Three? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Remember how Apollo Creed fell when Drago hit him?

Starting point is 00:37:02 And it was just like that face first. And he fell, he fell in on like these garbage bags. It was like, why? And I said, what the fuck? That's the first thing I screamed. Then I started going towards him. He got the brick again while the guy was down. Bang, hit him again.

Starting point is 00:37:17 And I'm like, fuck. Then a guy was scrambling to get up bleeding. And I'm like, he was leaking. Like his face was just totally, have you ever seen somebody's face totally crimson red? And I said, fuck, he's going to kill this guy. Right. If I don't stop him. Mind you, there are 30 people behind them.

Starting point is 00:37:34 Who could have easily tackled him? But someone, stop. Somebody make him stop. Somebody help. And like, none of fucking doing it. anything. So I found a telephone booth, went in there, turned around in three circles, and came out. No, but so I ran towards him. So then he gets the brick again. It's like fucking double

Starting point is 00:37:53 dutch because I'm like, all right, if I go and I get hit, he gets two for one on a day and no one's going to do anything. That's the most scary. That's the scariest thing about it all. People will literally watch someone kill you or attempt to kill you and do nothing. If it's I had seen something on this where it's like it if there is Bystander effect. Yeah, the bystander. If there's one person there, if there's just one person standing there close to you and see something, they are like a hundred times more likely to say, hey, what the fuck are you doing?

Starting point is 00:38:30 If you're in a crowd and the whole crowd sees it happen, nobody does anything. Yeah. Because they're just, they realize I'm in. I'm in a crowd. Nobody's doing anything. I should do nothing. The fusion of responsibility, they call it. Yeah. Yeah, they were screaming. Somebody make them stop. I mean, there were men behind him could have did something. So the third time he hit him, it cracked. The brick, this 10-pound brick cracked. It was like 80%, 20%. So I ran at him top speed, go, go, go, going. I said, I got to go now. He's going to get him. He was going to pick the brick up again.

Starting point is 00:39:03 He turned and he saw me running. At this time, I was probably like five feet away from. him, he abandoned mission and he ran. He took off towards Times Square and he had like a blanket or a sheet on his neck like a cape and he ran and he did like this thing and threw it off in the air. And I'm like, who is this, Don Juan de Marco or something like it's going to, because it's like all happens in slow motion because the sheet floated around like this in the air and I'm at this guy. And I used to play Little League baseball came in handy because I scooped up a quarter, the 20% of the brick, the small part. that he hit him with.

Starting point is 00:39:39 I scooped it up, boom, got it, start chasing him. All in strike, too. How I did this at 39, I don't know. My adrenaline was piqued the fuck out or something. Scooped it, start chasing him towards Times Square. We're grunting, and I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to throw this brick, crack him in the back of his head, he's going to fall. And I'm like, been a while since I played Little League.

Starting point is 00:40:00 I'm going to miss him, hit some old lady, and I'm going to get arrested for this. Or break someone's car window, whatever. So that went out my head. like, all right, get close enough, sweep his leg, trip him running. Then I remember, as a kid, 71st, I saw a guy chasing another guy. The guy he was chasing, stopped, turn around, did a roundhouse kick, kicked him. His lunch flew straight out of his mouth. So I'm chasing this guy fast.

Starting point is 00:40:22 He's bow-legged. He's probably hyped up on crack or something. I was in really good shape, too, because this one I was training, fighting because I wanted to fight in the 40-and-over league. Because, you know, I was 39. Went through a mid-life crisis. Like, I'm going to get in the ring and fill you. young again. Yeah. So I was running like maybe three miles, three, four times a week.

Starting point is 00:40:43 So he's not getting away. He's not getting, but man, he was fucking fast and bowleg fast, man. He was bowleg and I'm running and I'm chasing him down 43rd between ninth and eight. Boleg fast? He was. He was bowleg and I think that is the aerodynamics because the wind cuts between the thighs. No, but I'm chasing him and I started hearing black exploitation music. Like shaft. And there was a mounted cop in the middle of the block. And I'm like, hey, we got to get him. He just hit this guy with a brick.

Starting point is 00:41:17 We got to get him. And I'm still chasing him. And the cops just, mind you, this is 43rd in Hell's Kitchen between, like, 43rd between 8th and 9 traffic. So he's having a hard time maneuvering the horse through traffic. I'm chasing this guy and he cuts and starts running across the street. the mounted cop's behind him, and I'm chasing him, boom, boom, boom. I'm almost out of breath thinking I'm about the gas,

Starting point is 00:41:43 because we were going probably like out of, if we would have kept going, I probably would have ran a mile in three minutes. It's like a three-minute mile. He crosses the street. I'm still running, keeping a visual contact on him. The mounted cop is riding behind him. We flank them. We end up flanking them, and the guy just lays out flat on the ground like a starfish.

Starting point is 00:42:02 He just lays out. I'm breath. I say, hey, I'm out of breath. I say, hey, all of it. That's him right there. He just hit the guy with the brick. And the guy set up and looked at me in the eye. He made like intense eye contact.

Starting point is 00:42:16 And he said, you witnessing, bro? Yeah. And I said, damn. That brought me back to reality. He said, you witnessing bro? And he was like shocked, appalled. And he looked like he was hurt almost. Like, you got to like witness on me for hitting a white guy with a brick.

Starting point is 00:42:34 And that's what really hurt me about the situation. I'm like, I'm not racist like that. Right. Like, what? You're like hitting old people with a brick and I'm supposed to go with you because of the color our skin. Are you fucking crazy? It disgusted me. And I was like, fuck yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:49 I'm winning sin and you hit this guy with a brick. And then he was like, well, well, well, I didn't have my man today. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I didn't have. I can't breathe. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about?

Starting point is 00:43:01 Yeah. He's throwing all this. She's throwing a piece going for all the fucking. He's grabbing every race thing he goes. You witness him, bro, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And this was right at, this was, you know, Eric Gardner was a few years before that. You know, Eric Gardner, he got choked out by the police in Staten Island.

Starting point is 00:43:18 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I figure he was trying to make reference to that. That's what I'm assuming. I can't breathe. What's the other one? George Floyd. But this was before. This was before George Floyd, yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:30 And that made me. I can't watch one of these videos where somebody didn't get handcuffed and start screaming. I can't breathe. No one was around him. He was just sitting on the ground and, you know, the impressive thing, he laid out like a starfish. Then when me and the cop came over there, he set up in a lotus position. I said, damn, this guy's flexible. He literally, can you sit in a lotus position?

Starting point is 00:43:55 Maybe. My hips can't take it. Yeah, no, not for long. I don't think so. He sat in the lotus position. And then he's like, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. So they hook them and book them.

Starting point is 00:44:07 They take them to Bellevue, which is the mental, the psych ward in New York City. Fast forward. My friend and I, we end up going to the boxing gym because I'm like, fuck. You know, my adrenaline is spiked. I'm like, fuck. Just gave information, chase the guy down, witness now, which goes against the Chicago. You know, you grow up in the hood or black community on the south side of Chicago. You know, snitches get stitches.

Starting point is 00:44:34 don't talk to the police, don't be a rat and all this bullshit, right? Listen, I cooperate on everybody I fucking know. I'm doing fine. I haven't had so much as a harsh word in public. Not in public. I've had some people say some shit in the comment section, but, you know. Right. Well, here's the funny thing about this, though, right?

Starting point is 00:44:52 I went to my friends that were account, stock brokers, lawyers, and say, well, what should I do in this situation? Oh, man, you should never tell. People are going to say you're a rat. Oh, you should never tell. I go to a guy, good friend, well, he passed along, but he was a major heroin distributor in Harlem during the 70s who's been decades in jail. And I told him the situation, he said, why would you ask me a stupid-ass question like that? He said, you don't have an agreement with this guy.

Starting point is 00:45:21 You're not a gangster. You speak German. He said, listen, do you want to live in a, he said, you're a citizen. I was going to say, you're a civilian. Every street guy out there would be like, you're a civilian. And that's what he told me. lie to you. Yeah, he said it doesn't apply. He said, you didn't have an agreement with this guy. You're not a gangster. He said, do you want to live in a society where men people are going around hitting 60-year-old

Starting point is 00:45:41 men and a face with bricks? He said, it's your civil duty to go tell. And that really caught me too. Because I said, wow, the culture has become such where people say, oh, you shouldn't tell, you shouldn't do this from people who aren't even involved in it. I heard this from squares that never, they wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight. They haven't done as much to stole a piece of gum from a store. Here's a guy who's like a felon. Did 15, came out, did another 15.

Starting point is 00:46:13 Say, yeah, go do it. You should go testify. I mean, I always was, I always, I was always going to go testify. That wasn't a question. I just needed somebody to make me feel better about it. You know what I mean? Like, fuck, I'm about to go tell.

Starting point is 00:46:26 I need somebody to make me feel better about it. But every street guy I know, encourage me to do it. It was only your stockbrokers, your lawyers, and people that watched, you know, gangster podcasts that's like, no, don't go tell. They watched Godfather three times. Exactly. And Goodfellas, and they think they know, you never tell on your friends. It's like, I don't know this fucking good. And you don't want to, who wants to live in a society like that? Yeah. Like, I had so much emotion over it because, one, it really broke my heart. But live in a place where people hit people with bricks because of the color. They're

Starting point is 00:47:00 skin. You know, it's sickening. Like, it's really sickening to live in a culture where people think, oh, if you are a good citizen, you're a rat or this or that. And I mean, like, what are you talking about? What, you know, what's funny is the, the, they never think further than, you know, they've been, they've been educated to say that. But they never think further to think, okay, well, wait a minute that like 98% of crimes have a witness connected to it. So that would mean 98% of crimes don't get solved. And of course, you know, if you're like a criminal, you're like, yeah, no, wait a minute. Are you six foot six, two hundred and eighty pounds, a trained fucking boxer and killer?

Starting point is 00:47:48 Because no offense, but, you know, you don't survive in that. You're weak. You know, you may be a criminal. You may have your little fucking 38. but you've got to sleep at some point. So that means that your wives and girlfriends get to be assaulted and assaulted. That means that your children get to get shot. Nobody ever, nobody ever cooperate.

Starting point is 00:48:10 So none of those cases get solved. Like you don't survive. These guys that say those types of things, they don't think, they don't think further along the line to understand that they could not survive in the society that they think should exist. They just know to say, oh, don't be. killing on nobody. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:48:28 You wouldn't survive. You'd be fucking dead in 20, within a month. You'd be dead and everybody you know. Yeah. We're a country of laws, man. We're out of country of laws and we need civility. And when those people told me that, that's when I really start thinking about the culture, back to the gangster rap, those snitches this, there's like, what the fuck are you guys talking about?

Starting point is 00:48:50 We need this. So he told me, my friend, really encouraged me, go testify. Okay. So now we fast forward six months. I won't say I forgot about it, but, you know, I felt a little heroic. I got co-signed by a true Harlem gangster. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. Get a call six months later. Hey, Mr. Cross, this is the DA from the Special Victims Unit of Manhattan. Remember the guy to hit the guy with the brick? Remember. How am I going to forget that? Yeah, great. Well, we want to charge them with assault. Can you come testify? I said, assault. Yeah. I said, how much time will he get for that?

Starting point is 00:49:31 Five years? I said, he said he's going to hit a white motherfucker with a brick. I said, if the shoe is on the other foot. That's a hate crime. That's a hate crime. I said, if the shoe is on the other foot, people will be stealing shoes out of foot lockers and burning down stores. Let's keep this equitable.

Starting point is 00:49:49 Okay. And I mean, I don't think the papers were in front of the DA at the time to know the white motherfucker with a brick. So part. portion. So go to a grand jury and they opted, testified in front of the grand jury. They opted from to attempted murder with the hate crime. Yeah, I was thinking this guy was going to keep smashing this dude in the fucking head with a brick. Why isn't that attempted murder? Yeah, attempted murder with a hate crime is what he's charged with. So they asked questions like that

Starting point is 00:50:16 at the grand jury. Did he try to go in his pockets or anything to prove that he wasn't just trying to rob him or anything? He was going to smash his brains out until the guy stopped breathing, for sure. No question in my mind. So they upped hate crime, attempted murder. I think it was 20 years the life or 20, it's a football, football jersey numbers, they call them. Yeah. So he ends up taking a plea and he got 10 years in jail. This was before COVID. I can't tell you the exact year, but before COVID, 2019, early 2020, he takes 10 years. So after that, that's when it started kicking in. I was like, fuck, this guy's going to join some prison. gang. How old is this guy? He's in my age, a little older than me, so probably 49-50.

Starting point is 00:51:02 He's going to join some prison gang. Nobody wants this guy in the gang. Yeah, he's going to and then, and then, unless he's got a brick. Well, you know, you do comedy though. You're like, hey, I'm going to be at the Chuckoo Hut this time at 7 o'clock. And the 71st Street in me is working like, fuck, I'm going to sit and duck out here. You know, like, yeah, I'm going to be here at this time. Patting these patrons down at the door. No, no. He could walk right up. And then I thought the next thing I heard was get your hand out my pocket. Like, you missed the Malcolm X reference. Sorry.

Starting point is 00:51:32 Have you guys ever seen Malcolm X the movie? Yeah, I have. When he's like, get your hands out, and then that's when they come out and shoot Malcolm, that was the diversion. Oh, yeah. Okay, no, I didn't know. This is definitely a viral clip. Jason Cross is playing Malcolm X movie.

Starting point is 00:51:49 I have, you know, I have. No, I took a picture with it. Yeah, yeah. No, but there's a scene where the guy hollas, get your hand out my pocket. And then he throws down the smoke bomb, then three people come out and pooh, pooh, pooh, pooh. Oh, yeah, I didn't get that.

Starting point is 00:52:00 I didn't know that's what they said. I just knew that they got shot. Your black viewers will get this one. There was a comment. I almost screenshot the comment and sent it to you where the guy said he was, I don't know what he was saying. He was talking something about one of the guests. And he's like, bro, you know, you need to elevate your something,

Starting point is 00:52:19 your guest list or something. Like, you have to understand what you mean out here. in the true crime world, it's really, or the top-notch people are you and Ian Bick. He was like, he's like, we look to you to, I mean, he had a whole thing. And I was just like, he's like, and you and Ian are really, he said, there's lots of guys doing this, but you and Ian are the top, are the top shelf, you know, true crime. True crime podcasters, I thought, I mean, whether it's true or not, I liked, I, it was, it was a great reference.

Starting point is 00:52:52 Chad GPT has you as top tier and true crime. Swear, put it in there. Top tier. Look it up on Chad GPT. Your top tier, your tier one. That is funny. You know, because there's a whole genre of true crime, but most 95% of it is just somebody telling you about Jeffrey Dahmer

Starting point is 00:53:12 or telling you about some crime that's happened. It's not a lot of people that are having the first person that's really out here in the trenches doing this shit, man. And everyone's always like, you know, they're like, how do you find these guests? It's like, how do I find you talking about? We're sifting through them at this point. We're like, this guy, I don't know. So I had one time, Jess and I, my wife and I were eating at a place down here called a first watch.

Starting point is 00:53:39 It's a breakfast place. And so we're eating there. And, you know, we're eating. And she goes, she says, those two girls over, because I get recognized a lot, right? I'm sure. So since you have a million, one point. one. One point two in a week.

Starting point is 00:53:54 One point two. Let's go. So, so, she, she said, I think those, I think that those girls over there recognize you. And I go, where? She goes in a far corner. And I was like, I look over at them. And I look back and there.

Starting point is 00:54:08 I'm like, they're 12. There's no. She's like, they're not 12. They're eating by themselves. Like, like, they're at least whatever. They're at least in their, whatever, late teens. I was like, all right. I said, I don't know how.

Starting point is 00:54:20 It's not my, very, very, it's very, it's very, very, very, it's very, very, very, it's a very unlikely, right? First of all, we have almost no, we have like 10% female viewers and our 80% of our people are between the ages of 25 and 55. Some of them lie on their demos on YouTube. Maybe, but, you know, like, so anyway, as we are finishing, so we're just finishing up, we go, we're about to get up. The girl can tell we're leaving. She gets up and she walks in and she says, she said, you're Matt Cox, right? And she's got me, she's like, you're Matt Cox, right? You know, she's got my YouTube channel. And I'm like, and I'm like, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:53 She's like, oh my gosh. She goes, can I get a picture with you? And she's, I'm sorry. I mean, if you, so I go, no, no. I said, yeah, of course, of course. I said, wow. I said, how old are you? And she was like, she was like, I said, man, I'm shocked.

Starting point is 00:55:06 I said, you so, I go, you watch the show? And she says, no, no. She said, but my dad. Ah, got it. Got it. Has you on all day long. Yeah. She said, you were, every time I walk into the house, you're on the screen, on the TV.

Starting point is 00:55:20 He has you on. He's watching all your podcasts. She is, he will be so upset that he wasn't here. Did she get a pick at least? I have to get a picture of you. And I was like, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:55:31 Of course. And we get a bunch of pictures on, you know, I'm, you know, you know, you know, can I get a picture you holding up a check?

Starting point is 00:55:44 So she, but it was funny, but it was funny because I was thinking, wow, yeah, like, she's young. Like,

Starting point is 00:55:49 that's great, that's great. And she was like, oh, she was like, no. Like, no, I don't watch you. Please. But my, but the old guy that's raising me. So now she's going to be a fan too and start watching, depending on the topic. Maybe. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:56:05 You know? Maybe. Maybe in a year once Jess starts doing a show. Y'all, your wife's going to do a show too? She's not going to do a show. She's never doing a show. She's too. Introver, like, is she an introvert or she just gets shy and fighting him?

Starting point is 00:56:19 she is she you know listen she would never leave the house she would never leave the house she would only talk to her her mom

Starting point is 00:56:29 only have because she has to really it's really her sister and and her daughters those are the only people like I'm constantly like you know like and she has people to friends

Starting point is 00:56:42 people multiple people to try to be friends with her and she just doesn't respond to tax doesn't respond to it's like what do you know she just sounds like me she's just introverted. She just doesn't want it. And I feel like, even though I don't, I know it's an effort. For me, it's a real effort to be friends with somebody. But I also think that it's important to have relationships outside of just your marriage. You should have somebody that you can go to

Starting point is 00:57:06 dinner with, somebody that you can, you could take interest in other people. Does it make sense? Like it's absolutely important to be social. To social. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I tend to force myself. I get it. But, you know, it's hard to be, it's hard for that to make those things work when you're older because people have their own, they have their kids and their own lives and their jobs. It's a trust dynamic as well. Like for me, being paranoid the way I am, it's like, I don't trust everybody and to be around everybody. It's funny you say that because I had somebody the other day that was talking about friends and he was complaining like, I just, I need some friends. You just can't trust anybody. Like, what am I trusting you with? I mean,

Starting point is 00:57:43 I am assuming that if we hung out and we went to dinner a few times, and we were cool, we joked around, we laughed at stuff. You would help me at 2 o'clock in the morning, come help me, pick me up at, just help me change my tire. Where'd you grow up? That sort of thing. Like, that's it. Like, I need somebody that would rely on, not so much trust.

Starting point is 00:58:00 Did you grow up in Florida? Yeah. Okay. Now, well, Chicago is a different thing. We never let people know. If someone knew where you lived at, that's where you live, that's pretty much family at that point. Have you let someone in Chicago know where you live? We did this podcast up until a little over a year ago.

Starting point is 00:58:18 everybody came to my house where I live. Holy snap. That would give me ajida. Oh, is it ajada, ajana? It'll make me paranoid. We only stopped after we had two guys within about a month. At your house. What you used to think?

Starting point is 00:58:35 That were murderers, yeah, that had murdered people. And at that point. And you had them in the house. In the house. Oh, all bank robbers, drug dealers, home invasions. We got everybody. This just went on for three years. We had three years worth of people coming

Starting point is 00:58:48 my house. And we're talking about like three, four a week. How do you do it? Be that trust thing is what I mean. Not like how you, how do you get to the point where you're at trust? Because I mean, you've seen some things. I'm pretty sure being in the fed you're around a lot of murderers and unscrupulous people. Well, because you know how people rock you to sleep, right? If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. When you're not resting well, everything else feels harder. Your focus, your mood, even your recovery. Ghost bed is here. to help you fix that. They've spent decades perfecting how to build a bed that's comfortable, durable, and designed to actually help you rest. Every ghost bed mattress features premier materials,

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Starting point is 01:00:38 I'd say the majority of the people. So here's the thing. The bulk of the people that come on the show know me. they watch the show and they like me. So that's one thing. The other thing is the majority of people that come on the show don't live in this area, right?

Starting point is 01:00:53 The other thing is, I know you. Now we know each other. So you basically, if you're going to come in, you're going to have to kill everybody in the house. Are you willing to do that for what? Some camera equipment? And at that time, some shitty camera equipment, right? That you're going to maybe get $500 for like the plane ticket,

Starting point is 01:01:10 getting down here in the hotel, aren't the theft and the theft and the sale of the camera equipment you're going to break even like you start adding it up it's like what what is really the what is really the incentive and you know so and initially it was just me it wasn't me and my wife and and i'd never really interviewed people that were violent i had no violent interviews with anybody up until it within a month it was two guys one was a hitman he killed several people like a mafia mafia hitman yeah uh and the other guy had killed a guy that was trying to set him up and he killed him and dismembered him and uh fuck oh it was an erie when he explains it was so eerie he joined him huh oh oh it's horrible the whole thing horrible

Starting point is 01:01:56 and what's so funny about it is when he explained it i i mean i obviously the victim it's horrific what he did this poor guy um um uh and and and I'm not saying the guy, the guy brought it on himself. He didn't bring a murder on himself, but he, he was not, he was an unsavory character. He's playing in the Bickley. Yeah, you're both in this, you're both know what's going on. And so he gets cut up, but when he explains it, he explains it, he explains it in such a way that had, and this is a street guy. This is not a well-spoken, educated person. He explained it in such a way. Like a mopsa kind of street guy or what kind of No, no, no.

Starting point is 01:02:34 This is a street guy. Like, these guys are selling dope out of a dope house. Like, they're selling age. But when he explains how he does it and what happened, he explained it in such a way that was, it was, it was, it was, like, gave me goosebumps. Because he, because he was so, he explains that when it happened, it was so, you know, I don't want to say disgusting or upsetting. It was so disturbing to him what he was doing. Remember he said they drank like a whole six pack, right? Then they drink like a whole six.

Starting point is 01:03:07 He said just to be able to go in there and do this. And he said, while it was happening, he said, it was like I was watching myself do it. He said, and he said during that process, he said, you have to understand. He said, you're, you as a human being, you're a part of humanity. Everybody has a shared humanity. He said, there's a tunnel of humanity that we all kind of exist in. And he said, in that moment when I did this, he said, I stepped out of that tunnel. He said, and I've never been able to get back in.

Starting point is 01:03:47 He said, I lost that humanity. He said, because of the horrific thing that I had done. I mean, you could tell it upset him to. no end. Does that make sense? Like, I mean, to his core, he was basically kind of like saying, like, I'll almost like, like, if there's a heaven, I'm not going. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was a horrible situation for him to, because he was hooked on drugs and the way here's in. How much time did he get for it? Well, first it was, they were trying to get him to plead to, first it was like 40 years. And then they dropped it to 30. And then he's like, no, I'll go to trial. And then

Starting point is 01:04:25 they dropped it to 25. And then just before the trial, they said, like a couple days before the trial, they said 20 years. And then he's like, he was 22. He's like, I'm 22. He's like, that's my, that's double my entire adult life. He said, I'm not, I said, I'd rather go to trial. And keep mind, they've got witnesses and everything. He knows he's done, but he's like, I got to try. And literally like the day of the trial, they came to him and they said, and I think he'd been locked up a couple of years waiting for the trial. They said 15 years, if you tell us where you dumped, because they dismember the whole body and put it in different places, they put in duffel bags and dropped it off, if you tell us where the head is, because they'd found some parts of it.

Starting point is 01:05:11 And he said, I can tell you where I put the head. I don't know if it's still there. A lot of those, they didn't find a lot of the body parts because they were like in the woods and stuff and they got dragged off. It's like they're not there. I don't know what you. If I threw it in the river, like, I can't tell you what it is. But he did throw it. So he did put it somewhere. He said, they said, okay, if you just tell us where it is 15 years. There are talked to the family.

Starting point is 01:05:35 Family said, if he'll just tell us where the rest of the body is. And there was only like a leg. And like there's a couple things missing, which he told them. They found some parts, you know, and but they never found that they didn't find that time. They didn't find the head. So he got 15 years. Did they ever find it? No, they didn't.

Starting point is 01:05:49 They found the other parts. But not that. That was like the one part. I think it was like maybe two. pieces that they did not find. And he's like, and I told him exactly where he's in, they knew I told him the truth. Like I told him exactly because they,

Starting point is 01:06:01 they'd found a part there or something. There were some reason why they, okay, he's right. We found that he did dump stuff here. We found the bag. You know what I'm saying? He's been torn apart by animals or whatever.

Starting point is 01:06:11 So whatever the case may be, they, they believed that he was telling the truth. He's like, and I wouldn't have lied. I mean, it was 15 years. He's like,

Starting point is 01:06:17 they gave me the 15 years. And I think he did like 12 and got out. What's the, it was some other. was something, you know, New Jersey or someone, you know, some state that we're like in Florida, there's no way. Yeah. There's no fucking way.

Starting point is 01:06:32 You're going to get 30 years and, and you're probably doing almost all of it. You're probably getting out at 23 years, 24. You might get some game time, probably 25 out of 30. I mean, they're brutal. In Florida, they don't give a shit. And they're not letting you out conditions. They don't give a fuck what the conditions are. We'll just chain you guys together.

Starting point is 01:06:49 I don't give a shit. No capacity. No, no, it's brutal. No. It's brutal, brutal. It's, you do not, like, it's funny, these, they have these guys, these crews of guys that do smashing grabs in New York. And they come down to Florida. And these guys are all living in Florida.

Starting point is 01:07:09 There was like a group of, like, eight of them. And they're all living in Miami. And they would get on planes. They would fly up to New York. And they'd stay in New York for whatever weeks at a time. And then they break everything and bust up this place is in New York. And then when they eventually jewelry, jewelry, yeah, yeah, smash around. And they would come in New York.

Starting point is 01:07:23 And they would come in. in. And so when they eventually get caught, they say to them, you guys live in Florida. What are you flying? I mean, like, you could go. There's tons of places in here for smash and drag, smash and grab. You can go anywhere in Boka. You can go anywhere. Sarasota.

Starting point is 01:07:39 Like, there's tons. They're like, there are easier targets in Florida. But these guys had all been to prison. And they're like, oh, no, no. They said, no, you steal in New York. You live in Florida. They say, if you steal in Florida, they said, well, what, what I'll get five years up here for? They were like, I'll get four or five years up here for a smash and grab, even with my history.

Starting point is 01:07:58 They said, I'll get 20 in Florida. They said, oh, no, you don't steal in Florida. They said, they, they've, there's, they don't care. It's like, Florida will lock you up and lock you up in line. They will, he's like, no, we can't do it. No, we, we, we've all been to prison already. We, most, a lot of them in Florida, they're like, no. And it was like, that's how.

Starting point is 01:08:18 It's not, yeah. Yeah. I'm very polite when I get pulled over. Oh, of course. I'm very polite in Florida. We need consequences to keep law. We need consequences. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:08:28 Everything civil. Listen, every TikTok that you've seen where they drag the motherfucker out of the window. Yeah. Florida. Florida. Some guy cracks his window, says, I'm a sovereign citizen. I'm traveling officer.

Starting point is 01:08:42 I don't need a driver's license. They're like, oh, no. I'm going to need another car here. We're about to drag a motherfucker out of the window. Yeah. They're not fucking around in Florida. You can do that shit maybe in Chicago. You can't know.

Starting point is 01:08:55 No, you can. Maybe now, but... Now they've got the body cameras. Yeah, you heard about the cop that had his own warehouse where he was taking people and coarsing them into... Oh, it's just sex? Sex? No, no, coarsing him to plead guilty. What?

Starting point is 01:09:13 There's a cop in Chicago detective. He probably died, like, right after you got sentenced. It was a detective in Chicago. He had a warehouse. He would take him there, beat him with water hoses or... or throw water on him, electrocute him. You haven't heard about this guy?

Starting point is 01:09:27 Look this one up. That's insane. And look up Chicago detective. And look up Chicago police warehouse wherever. I saw that a guy got a police officer went to trial the other day where he had, he was accused of, you know, assaulting, let's say, women. And I forget how many women he had just taken into a, he'd take him. I heard about one like that in Houston or Dallas or something.

Starting point is 01:09:55 Something like that. Yeah. No, but this one is on trial right now, I think. Yeah. The one in Chicago, though, no, he got a lot of people to say, I did it. Did you find him? Um, Chicago. What was it?

Starting point is 01:10:09 Huh? Like, how long? This would have been the 70s and 80s. Oh, come on. No, 80s 90s, sorry. That's old news. 80s. 80s.

Starting point is 01:10:18 You get away with anything back then. Yeah. Still commit crime back then and get away. Well, now you drive to Chicago. They don't even pull you over anymore in Chicago, honestly. And when I was in high school, I used to drive down Lakeshore Drive. And I have a lead foot. And I would get pulled over all the time.

Starting point is 01:10:34 Hey, you're doing 50 and the 40, whatever. Now you don't get, they don't have cops out there giving tickets like they used to. They have speed cams, but they're like selectically put around the city. There's just cops everywhere here. Everywhere in Flet's tons of cops. I heard that this is like the DUI Capital when I went down to. Oh, they love to pull you over. They call it Cape Cope.

Starting point is 01:10:52 Cape Coma, I think Cape Corral. They used to call Cape Coma. My friend used to call it. And you know what the other thing is, the cops here drive with the, do they do this in Chicago with the lights on? No, the cops. So depending where you are in the state of Illinois, you might not even recognize it's a police car.

Starting point is 01:11:11 They might have another car. And then a car pulls up beside you. They're like, why is this guy staring at me? Then the light, who. And you're like, oh, gosh. No, we've got a lot of those too where it's just like it looks like a regular SUV. be it, but, and you, you can kind of tell because the windows are always a little dark. These, I said, Dodge Chargers and everything else, yeah.

Starting point is 01:11:28 They got some great police cars. Oh, they got like the four, like the, uh, the Mustangs. The Mustangs, yeah. They have the, the state troopers and shit have the Mustangs that are fucking bad and shit looking. I'm like, when I grew up, one, police cars were embarrassing looking. Barney Fife type cars, right? Fucking, these things are badass. So, anyway, let's, all right, so.

Starting point is 01:11:49 All right, what, what was the? No, so you got the phone call. Wait, hold on, wait. Go ahead. What phone call? He got the phone call from the, he got the phone call. I got the phone call from the DA. No, he pled guilty.

Starting point is 01:12:00 He had just pled guilty. He just, and you start worrying. He just pled guilty, and my paranoia kicked in. Is he going to join a prison gang? Is he going to join this? Is he going to join that? And I was very public on social media. I had to be as a comic, so I got rid of it all.

Starting point is 01:12:16 I went dark for a while. Are you serious? You know. How much time did he get? Ten years. He's gone for a long thing. Well, I don't know. That's a fairer.

Starting point is 01:12:27 Do they do five? No, he's doing the whole time. The whole, I know, but if you'll get good time. If you get 10, you get. They told me he wasn't going to get, he had to do the whole thing. Oh. Yeah. But wait, there's more.

Starting point is 01:12:38 But you got 10 years, though. One would think. One would think. So I went dark. I got rid of everything. Everything. And I remember when I went back to Chicago, moved back to Chicago. We moved back to Chicago.

Starting point is 01:12:48 And they're like, what are you doing? I say, I'm going to witness protection. program. I put myself in a witness protection program. Because I was thinking illogically, because, you know, some of the guys I grew up around, if someone was to tell on them, it would be a problem. But this wasn't that situation. But I'm thinking crazy. You know, it's the it's the BS that gets pumped into our head, the Godfather BS we spoke up. So it went dark for a while. Then I get a call from the DA again. Hey, Mr. Cross, remember that guy? He played 10 years. Well, He's appealing his case and we're going to need you to come here and testify.

Starting point is 01:13:25 So the guy appealed his case. And I'm like, all right, I don't want to dis. They said, so yeah, we'll send you a plane ticket and bring. I said, no, don't worry. I'll get myself there because I didn't want them to know where I lived. Mind you, first question they asked when I was on the stand. Mr. Cross, what county do you live in? I'm like, fuck, okay.

Starting point is 01:13:44 So that gives up my anonymity in that respect. But I started getting over it. But he appealed his case. He goes to trial again, I go back to testify. And you know, when you go to testify, as the defendant's side, the state attorney or the attorney side, the prosecutor side, and you walk through the middle. I'm like, this guy's going to fucking crack me when I'm walking through the middle to the stand.

Starting point is 01:14:06 And this is why I think this. You know what I realize why I think this? Because I'm probably that way. What do you mean you're that way? Like, wait, or something. Well, because think about this, right? If I'm not there, no one would have probably chased them. no one would have probably stopped it.

Starting point is 01:14:21 He would have got away. And he doesn't get that hate crime enhancement. Okay. That's how I'm thinking. Like, oh, maybe. Oh, my God. I wouldn't do anything like that. So let me get that clear.

Starting point is 01:14:33 I wouldn't do any of things like that, but I'm thinking like, okay, if you're in this situation, this. I mean, you know what? So this is a perfect example of you suffer more in your mind than you do in reality. Oh, I was suffering like a bitch. I was suffering a lot, man. I really went dark on everything. People like, hey, what are you at, Jason?

Starting point is 01:14:51 Where are you? I'm like, why you want to know? Aren't you a comedian? Like, how can you even do that? Well, because it was around COVID. It was around COVID. So it was like, you got to be more on social media. We were doing shows online and this.

Starting point is 01:15:01 So I just went dark. And they're like, where are you at, Jason? I said, wait, why are you going to know? I haven't seen you in a while. Why are you wanting to know where I am? What? He's got to be strapped to a chair. He's he beat me with a hose.

Starting point is 01:15:11 You got to help me, Jason. Tell me your address. That paranoia is crazy, man. And then I think about some of your guests and some of the things that go on. I'm like, wow, if my paranoia was like that for virtually a crackhead I put away, how much they feel when they're like going against organizations? But that paranoia, it was like, wait, why do you want to know? And then people would always call out the blue.

Starting point is 01:15:31 I'm like, I haven't spoke to this guy in five years. Is this this guy's cousin? Does he know this guy? Maybe he's six degrees of separation. Maybe he told somebody in jail with him and he told him to call me to figure this out. Why do you come do this show? Are you trying to line me up? Like, no, like, really, I was in this whole paranoia thing.

Starting point is 01:15:48 But I testify, again, after he appeals his case, he gets 14 years. Dude talked himself out of a 10-year plea deal and got 14 years. Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys get resentenced. And like, yeah, man, they're resentencing me. Yeah, they couldn't. And the judge just goes, okay, well, yeah. Yeah. There you go.

Starting point is 01:16:11 There's an extra five years. or they're keep fucking appealing it you're guilty they tact well they something i thought he wanted to find out more information that's why he was representing himself so he could find out oh this guy's gonna find it he he can he gets all the discovery that anybody else does yeah okay did he did he question you on the stand no so after i testify boom boom right and they said any questions he was just like nah he said no but his uh assistant not assistant but the attorney the public defender with him says you got it covered the mic you know how to cover the mic in court you have to ask him something you have to ask him something something so he came up

Starting point is 01:16:42 up and say, whatever. So the public defender came up saying, so, Mr. Crows, you say, you were boxing. How many years been boxing? I'm like, I'm off and on, like, maybe 10 years. So, well, why did you wait? Why didn't you run up to him initially? I said, so I could get hit in the fucking face with a brick. And then I could maybe box somebody, but not somebody with a brick. And then that was the only two or three questions they asked. And that was it. Was there a jury? Yeah, the jury was there too. Was the victim there? Yeah, yeah, he's sitting there. The victim wasn't in a courtroom when I testified. Really?

Starting point is 01:17:14 No. Why? I don't know. I met the victim. So after he got here with the brick, he was sitting on the back of an ambulance, the back of an ambulance. I ran up and talked to him. He was like, man, I'm so sorry.

Starting point is 01:17:27 I couldn't get there sooner. And he was like, what are you talking about? With a very thick German accent. And this is how goofy I am. I said, the children can see, Vita, Sintzzi, Deutsch. And he said, yeah. Yeah, he was from, he's a German native. and but he lived in New York at the time or he lives in New York.

Starting point is 01:17:45 Yeah. How weird is that, right? You see how this story comes full circle? He wasn't. You see how this? I don't know about that. But was he shocked that you spoke German? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:55 Well, he was, I mean, he was still leaking and he's probably like, why is this guy talking to me? How hard did I get hit? Yeah. I got hit so hard black people speak German. No, but, but see, he, uh, he's a special. kind of a guy, man. I must say, because, you know, I always said if I was him. The perpetrator? No, the victim. No, the victim. If I was the victim and that happened to me the other way around,

Starting point is 01:18:22 I would probably be in a Ku Klux Klan right now. I would probably harbor so much hate. He doesn't have any of that. He said, no, I can't think that way. A lot of good you help me. The ambulance people help me. The people from the DA. And he still has faith in humanity. It kind of killed my faith for a little bit. It's coming back slowly, but surely. But yeah, it really killed it in me that, oh, you could walk around and someone could be like, dark skin, boom, it just hit you for no reason. Like, that's daunting when you think about it. Yeah. It's very daunting. Yeah, I was going to say, I watched so, I've said this before, I watched so much true crime that anything, like we, we have been out with my wife and I have been out, like we were at the beach. And this was when

Starting point is 01:19:09 her daughter's young younger, but this is a perfect example. Her daughter's like, mom, do you have those such and such? You know, whatever. And she's like, no, I don't have it. Her daughter's like 17 at the time. And she's like, no, she's in the car. She's like, okay, well, I'm going to go get it. And I go, she gets up to go to the car, right?

Starting point is 01:19:24 We can almost see the car. It's in the parking lot. And we're on the beach. And I go, you should go with her. And she goes, it's right there. And I go, right, but this is how the beginning of the documentary starts. Yep. And she went to the car and they never.

Starting point is 01:19:39 saw her again. Exactly. I said, yeah, I said two weeks from now, they find her body floating up and now on the fucking beach somewhere. And she's like, fuck. Yeah. Because every time I, because I watch these things that every time there's some situation, my wife laughs at me because we'll both get in the car, we're driving,

Starting point is 01:19:59 and we slow down to a stop sign or a stoplight. And I immediately reach over. No, I clock, I lock the doors. Because I have a car that you have to push the button, right? hers, I think, automatically do. I take on. And she looks at me and I'm like, I don't fucking know these.

Starting point is 01:20:14 I don't know these people. I don't know them. I don't know if that guy's going to jump out. I don't know if a car's going to lock up and they, do you know how many times I've watched people get chased? You want TikTok or a short or something? And they get chased and the person locks up his brake, jumps up, runs over to the car. And I'm thinking, like they're going to grab for the door handle.

Starting point is 01:20:30 I'm thinking, what idiot has this. This guy's sitting in his car. He sees the car chase. He sees the guy stop. His car door is locked. No. The guy runs up, grabs the door, yanked him out. I saw a guy get shot like that.

Starting point is 01:20:44 Right. Yeah. Like you saw this happen. You had 30 seconds to lock your door. You did nothing. Like are you a child? You have no instinct at all to protect yourself? I don't think people think it could happen to them.

Starting point is 01:21:04 I think that's the big issue. I'm waiting for it. This will never happen. Yeah, you prepare for it. You're prepared because it can happen. And that's why I had paranoia out of this world. Yeah, I hear you. Out of this world.

Starting point is 01:21:15 So wait, where was I? He got 14 years. Yeah, he got 14 years. But we were talking about something else. Well, we were talking about the guy, the victim. Yes. And then I, you know, so approached him in a, well, we did at the ambulance park. Then I saw him at the grand jury, but I didn't see him.

Starting point is 01:21:31 When I testified, he wasn't in the room, but he was in the DA's office when we walked back. and we spoke about things and yeah interesting times we talk about a few things so after I testify I could finally look up the perpetrator is okay now it wouldn't have affected my testimony so there's an article on him in GQ um so he was homeless in Los Angeles and he was with this friend any frontal nudity no frontal nudity in this one no frontal no he was homeless in Los Angeles and he got into an argument with one of his other, one of his homeless friends. Called the police, tells the police the guy has a baseball bat. Police gets there.

Starting point is 01:22:14 He screamed something and the police shoots his friends and kills the guy. He set his friend up like that. And I said, oh, fuck, I'm messing with a criminal. Mastermind. He's a homeless. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh, let me be an unhoused. and unhoused criminal mastermind.

Starting point is 01:22:38 Well, because I mean like, yeah, this happened. I said, oh, my gosh, who is this guy? And so, you know, you speak to some friends that may have access to certain things and find out about the person. But yeah, he got his friend shot by the police in California. I said, okay, now he's, you know, he represented himself. He has access to this information. Then my paranoia went a little deeper.

Starting point is 01:23:01 But then eventually I snapped out. of it being back in chicago i went back to my old neighborhood and right they kind of calmed me down was like dude what are you talking about chill out plus you know the terrain what um what what what month did this happen in new york this happened march 27th 2018 march okay i saw that he would have gone from california which has great weather i was thinking is he a per wait there's more professional homeless person? Like I do the winters in California. In the summers, I do homeless in the city in New York.

Starting point is 01:23:40 But in the winter, I'm homeless in L.A. Well, wait. Is he working both the systems? Does he getting paycheck from both states? He may be a con man too. He tried the con when he said, oh, I haven't had my meds today. But he had a case down in Florida. I heard, Kansas, L.A.

Starting point is 01:24:00 he's been all over. So, you know, my paranoia is gone, but occasionally I'll go online to make sure he's still in jail. I put his name in two months ago. It's like, oh, man finally found that's wanted for murder in Minnesota connected by DNA.

Starting point is 01:24:17 So when you get arrested, they run you through CODIS or something. Of course. They put him through CODIS. He's suspect, I don't know, the legal jargon, he's suspected or accused of a murder in Minnesota. A white woman.

Starting point is 01:24:32 A white? A white woman. So I don't know if this is another hate crime. Death penalty. Yeah. I don't know if this is another hate crime. He's done. White woman in Minnesota, they might give him a full six months.

Starting point is 01:24:48 Yeah, that's right. It's Minnesota. You know? Yeah. But they have them linked by DNA. So who knows how that turns out. It's not good for him. It's good for you.

Starting point is 01:24:57 Why? It's good for me. Because he's going to, he's got to finish his time here. Yeah. Got to go to Minnesota. He's got to do the extra six months for killing the white woman. So he'll get another extra six months.

Starting point is 01:25:07 Maybe by some fluke, he gets, like, maybe by some fluke, he gets 20 years there or 10 or 20 years there. He may not get out for a long time. I'm sure. Yeah. Because if they haven't linked by DNA, have you ever seen anyone get off that has DNA linked to a body? No, but I'm wondering how, obviously, I don't know what the circumstances are.

Starting point is 01:25:30 around it. Like to me, DNA linked to a body, like, was there a struggle or was it a murder, assault? Like, that's where the DNA comes in. Like, if that's the case, you probably, like, in Florida, you're never getting out of prison. Up there, I don't know, 20, and maybe tack on another five or 10. They don't seem to have a problem with that. You think that's all? He'll get it's like five for a body? No, I'm saying extra. Oh, so maybe instead of going 20 years, maybe 30. Gotcha, gotcha. You know, if there's an assault. Yeah. I would like to find out what it is. But, yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:03 You can, you can order a Freedom of Information Act and get, it's literally, you can go online and fill out a Freedom of Information Act for whatever county or city that had investigated it. Or even to the DA's office, which I'm sure is listed in the newspaper article. You can do a Freedom of Information Act online. Oh, now send it to me before it even goes to trial? Because it's an open case. Well, they have the guy. You know, I could get it because I could say I'm a journalist. A journalist.

Starting point is 01:26:42 Stop it. My sides hurt. Yeah, you could, I can probably get it. But yeah, you might, I don't know. I don't know if they, because I've ordered them before where they've been like, it's an open case. But this doesn't sound like an open case because even though I understand, because they have. they have the DNA he hasn't been tried he hasn't been tried like they might give it it's worth it's worth an email like literally it's yeah why not why fill it out and they might come back to say yeah listen

Starting point is 01:27:11 this is an open investigation we can't give it to you maybe i will look into it i'm curious you be sure the worst thing can do is say no yeah i'm sorry you could even go you know just say hey look i was uh here you know here's the case i was this person i'm just curious to know i'm curious about this guy is he going to get out yeah you could even probably call the district attorney which is already you know happy with you and say look could do you could you do me favor i'm very concerned that this guy may be getting out at some point but here's an article that came out about the guy i'm sure you know i track it it is 2030 is is when is he uh when his stay in new york is done but but after that i think they probably ship him out to wherever he yeah

Starting point is 01:27:52 well they may actually do it prior to that they may ship him there prior to that he'll be sentenced then he'll go back to new york do his time and then have to serve that sentence Wow. Now, if he goes, if he's smart, he goes back, he pleads guilty and gets his time concurrent or run concurrent? Like say, hey, I'll take 20 years, but I won't run concurrent. Then he goes back to New York, finishes his time when he's done, then he goes, but it's been running the whole time, so he's only got another 10 years.

Starting point is 01:28:22 Yeah. So. Well, he has four more left on this one. Yeah. I mean, if you write, if you, I'm telling you, if you send an email to the DA that you dealt with that that questioned you that in the office anymore i called because i wanted to get the transcript i wanted to get the um the transcripts of my testimony i have them but i was going to say they're not there anymore that was very easy to get yeah yeah that's yeah it's very easy people

Starting point is 01:28:46 are so it's funny how easy the court system will work with you and the police will work with you um because people are so used to dealing with you know AT&T or sorry i don't know if you have 18 you know Like, we have AT&T and Sprint. Yeah. Like, it's so, like you're so, you're so, you're so, people are so used to getting the runaround by companies. They don't realize that typically when you go to the courts or typically you can call a court and the clerk will answer. Hi, can I help you? And you're like, yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:19 Can you put me into the machine? I wasn't prepared to talk to a person. If you need to talk about your bill, that's one. Right. So you're like, yeah, I have a case that such. questions and they're like, uh, yeah, hold on. They'll look it up. Oh, yeah, yeah, no. Is it so and so? Yeah, yeah. And what did you need? Well, yeah, okay. Yeah, no problem. I can do that for you. Or, hey, yeah, I can send you an email and then just respond to the email.

Starting point is 01:29:41 They'll very helpful, very helpful. The same thing you can call like, if you call like the local police department, like somebody answers. Yeah, they're very helpful. What can I do for you? Well, I need to. Someone stole my identity. Oh, that sucks. So listen, uh, go ahead and give me your name, you know, and they, you're like, I'll have somebody call you back. And they call back in five minutes. You're like, yeah, that's crazy. This is helpful. That's our government in action. I love it. I love it. But maybe I'll find out. Who knows? Yeah, usually, it's literally probably, I'll bet you it's three phone calls and an email and you've got so much fucking information. You're like, holy shit, this dude's never getting out. Maybe they'll bring me up as a character

Starting point is 01:30:19 witness. You say, hey, I want to be there. Yeah, why not? Yeah, so, you know. You could always write him a letter and just say, hey, just check and say, how you doing in there? I thought I saw an article that said you befriended him, but that must have been a different no. I befriended the victim, not the hell no, not the perpetrator. I'll befriended the victim. Now, I, yeah, that race stuff kind of bothers me. I wouldn't want to be around. No, no. It changed my whole outlook, because when he had the brick in his hand, I'll admit, I was a liberal. When he left, I was a liberal. When he lifted it, I turned to a moderate. it. When he hit him with the brick, I threw on a MAGA hat. I said, fuck, that we need tougher

Starting point is 01:31:00 laws and we need guns. I became a two-way advocate. I see these guys that have been arrested in, like, New York and stuff like fucking 30 times. And, you know? So this is what the paranoia hit, right? So my friend, he's an ex-pro fighter, semi-known, pretty well-known. Like two weeks after that, he's walking to the gym six in the morning. Somebody comes from behind and punches him in a jaw, breaks it in three places. He's He doesn't know who it is. Next day, I hear about a lady getting pushed on the subway tracks. Next week, there was this guy.

Starting point is 01:31:31 He beat up a lady. They took him in. He came out hour later, beat up another later, took him in. Oh, yeah. Came out again, dragged some lady by a person in front of Grand Central Station. They finally kept them. He beat up three women in one day. I mean, they're efficient about letting people out.

Starting point is 01:31:49 And that's why, yeah. Super efficient. That's why I said, all right, my time and a big apple is up for now. I said, I might as well live in Chicago. Yeah. Well, you know you're scared of hell when you moved to Chicago to be safe. You know your paranoia as at the next level. Oh.

Starting point is 01:32:06 Good times. Yeah, good times, man. But, you know, I did my civil, civic duty. I'm very happy I did. Very, very happy I did. And, you know, the comic and me start coming out after the paranoia went away. And I was able to turn this into a joke. And so now it's part of your stand-up?

Starting point is 01:32:28 Yes. Yes. Do you start off with the, hit a white motherfucker with a brick? No, I kind of ease them into it. I give them a little comedian, K-Y first. You just can't shove that one in.

Starting point is 01:32:40 You got to grease them up first. So how often do you do stand-up? Every weekend. Really? Yeah. At the same clubs? No, different clubs. Different clubs travel.

Starting point is 01:32:54 Like, I'll be down here in Tampa, December 11th and 12th at Coconut's Comedy Club. Well, that's St. Pete Beach. That's not too far from here. I've been to a bunch of them. Me and Colby and Tom Simon. We all went to the one where Carl, the guy, he was working the crowd, like, oh, what do you do for a living? And he got to Tom. And he's like, what do you do?

Starting point is 01:33:21 He's like, I'm, currently I'm a licensed private investigator in the state of Florida. He said, but I'm a retired. And he's, oh, how'd you get into that? He said, I was an FBI. I'm a retired FBI agent. And he's like, get that. And so he spends all his time kind of working Tom. He's like, this is a good one.

Starting point is 01:33:38 Because it's interesting. You know they have stories. And of course, I'm sitting right next to him. And so everybody is waiting. And Tom said he's like, and I was waiting for him to go, hey, what's your buddy do? Like me? And I was going to be like, uh, he's. currently just recently released from federal prison

Starting point is 01:33:55 for bank fraud. Wait, is your friend? That's the guy that arrested you? No, no, he just comes on the show. But how funny would it be

Starting point is 01:34:02 that we're both together at the comedy show? So he would have been like, you know, hey, what the? You know, people were, oh my God,

Starting point is 01:34:08 what is happening? Never moved on. And every time it comes up, Carl is like, he's like, fuck, I should have moved off of Tom to you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:34:17 He's like, because that would have been hilarious. That would have tore the roof off the place. The two of you were sitting there, together. Oh, yeah. But yeah, he didn't. See? Yeah, that's like that movie, what? Catch me if you can, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, the Tom Hanks. Yeah, was that a real one? Is that true how they say they died of checks and all that? Is that no, the acetone to wash off the names and then write your name now? Oh, yeah, no, that's true. That's true. That's a check. It's called check washing. They, they still do it to this day.

Starting point is 01:34:43 You don't really need to do it this day because you can use, um, quick books and just print it. You just get the information off the check and just reprint a check, right? So you don't really have to do it anymore. You could if you're concerned about the signature or something, but it's low-level shit. Like if you're not smart enough to figure out QuickBooks and printing checks, then you could do that. But I think it's pretty... What's the hierarchy of check fraud? Like you say, that's low-level.

Starting point is 01:35:07 What's the hierarchy? Like, who's the kingpin? I would say that, I mean, as far as fraud, it's probably, you know... Welfare. Let's start with welfare. are queens. Let's start with Pee-P loan leaves. Number two.

Starting point is 01:35:27 Credit cards, right? And then, yeah, yeah. No, I would say credit cards is probably, well, no, credit cards is actually pretty difficult now. Like, they're making it harder and harder. But it goes up, you know, and it's like just different types of loan frauds. And then I would say it gets up to Ponzi schemes. And then I'd say the top one is like stock manipulators, right?

Starting point is 01:35:48 Like pump and dump schemes. Yeah. Yeah, I'd say that's the top. I would think there will be so many pumping dumps now because you have social media. Hey, go buy this stock and then everyone buys it. These guys get caught too. The problem is like it's like a Ponzi scheme is that Ponzi schemes, they're typically, even though the prosecution, the government will always will always be like,

Starting point is 01:36:11 this man's a con man. He started this and in order to steal from people. It's like that's very few. I'd say less than one percent of Ponemen. Ponzi schemes are started that way. Typically, it's a legitimate venture. They have a bad quarter. They figure, we lost 1% or 3%. We've been making 4% a quarter. We lost 2% or 3%. I'm afraid to tell my investors that. So I'm going to lie and say we made, we had a bad quarter and we made 2%. And then I'll just make it up over the next year. Well, the problem is they don't. The next quarter,

Starting point is 01:36:48 they break even. The next quarter, they lose two more percent. The next quarter, they lose four percent. And then they get what naturally you get more and more, you know, a concern and you get more and more anxious. And so you start making more and more risky trades trying to make up this deficit because now you're lying to all your investors who think they have half a million dollars in the bank, but now he really only has 400,000. And so you just start lying to the investors and then you start making more and more risky trades because you're desperate to try and make up the now doubling down 20% shortfall that all these plus you're still taking some kind of a salary and so you're like oh Jesus god almighty and before you know it you realize

Starting point is 01:37:35 I've lost 30 to 40% of my portfolio I'll never be able to repay these people I have two kids in private school. I have a wife. I have a jet. I have two houses. Holy shit. I don't know what to do. And you're like,

Starting point is 01:37:56 I could, the smart thing to do is to go to my wife and say, look, here's what I've done. This has been the last 18 months. I'm done. I'm going to go into

Starting point is 01:38:04 the U.S. Attorney's Office. I'm going to lay out everything I can lay out. Or sell the jet? No, you can sell the jet. You're still not coming up. But if you afford, if it's an $800 million

Starting point is 01:38:14 fund and you, And you've lost 200 million. You're down to 600 million. There's nothing you can do. You're done. Your smartest thing for you to do is to go to your wife and say, look, here's what we're going to do. We're getting a divorce. So they can't attack the assets.

Starting point is 01:38:31 Right. I'm going to give you, we're going to argue a little bit about it. I'm going to be hit with child support and a bunch of other things. You're going to get the house. You're going to almost all the assets within reason we'll go to you. I'll take on some debt. I'll pay off some credit cards, including your credit cards. I'll make it so that you can move on.

Starting point is 01:38:52 So that you're comfortable when I... And then I'm going to... And two weeks later, a month later, I'm going to walk into the... I'm going to walk into the U.S. Attorney's Office with my attorney, and I'm going to lay it out. I'm going to run up my credit cards, pull out all the money out of my credit cards and give that to the attorney. So he'll pay for my private attorney because they can't do anything of that either. I'm going to prisons. My credit's shot anyway.

Starting point is 01:39:13 I'm fucked. Yeah. So, and if you do that, even if it's a $200 million fraud and you walked in there, there's a good chance you only do four years, three years. You'll be out in two and a half. It'll be in a half a half a half a house. So for two years, his wife skates away with what, 50 million, the house? Well, even if she just breaks even, you know, or has a house that's paid for or a couple hundred, you know, 500,000 or a million dollars, whatever it is. Because, you know, is that the problem is you do not.

Starting point is 01:39:44 nothing and one or two investors pull money out and you've got a real problem. And then somebody somewhere starts saying, hey, this guy's, everybody else is losing money. This guy's consistently making money. It's not possible. He can't show his trades. Something's wrong. And it hits social media. And then all of your investors want their money back.

Starting point is 01:40:06 And now the FBI investigates you and they show up on your doorstep a year later. and now you don't get to say You don't get to make a deal Yeah, you don't get to make a deal Now you're just a fucking scumbag That lost 600,000 It was 200,000 Now it's 600,000

Starting point is 01:40:24 And now people are crying on the stand This man, and by the way The whole time too, you're continuing to raise money People are just, at this point People are just giving you money Hey, I know you're investing Todd's money Right You know, I know he's got 12 million with you

Starting point is 01:40:37 He wondered if I could put a couple million No, no, I can't take two million And at this point, you keep just keep taking it. So the point is, if you go in with your lawyer before they know anything, you can make a sweetheart deal. If you wait until they're investigating and they show up on your doorstep, you are so overwhelmingly fucked. So does insurance cover the investors like Fynra, any of these places? Almost never. So they just lose the money.

Starting point is 01:41:03 They just lose the money. They can't recoup it. Wow. So, you know. Wow. It's amazing how many of these. What's two years and five? Fed prison like so.

Starting point is 01:41:11 Fuck it in a fucking camp. This guy's going straight to a camp. To a camp? Yeah. Listen. So no one's leaving a honey bun on this pillow. No, no. Even if he went to a low, even if he went to a federal medium, he's probably not going to have that hard, a hard time.

Starting point is 01:41:26 And a medium would suck. It sucked mostly because he would be alone. What do you mean alone? Because there wouldn't be anybody like him. Does that make sense? Or it'd be like street guys. These are like a more educated. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:41:37 These are white guys that are making, uh, making eye. in a bathtub in a single wide, they have burn marks on themselves because they burnt themselves during the process of figuring this out. Like, this is not, these are not your people. You think they're your people,

Starting point is 01:41:50 but as soon as they talk and they're missing half their teeth and you're like, oh, you're not my. Billy Bob is not my people. So if he goes to a low, there will be a lot of guys like him. And if Trump gets his way,

Starting point is 01:42:05 he'll go from a low, he might go into a low and then be released almost immediately on an ankle monitor. and do his time in a condo in a condo in a penthouse or mansion well well he wouldn't because they'll take everything he's got legal or not they'll take everything remember that's why he's that's why he's going there divorces the wife got so she could get some for restitution got right so he'll he'll have horrible crap he'll end up in an apartment a shitty apartment in a in a shitty

Starting point is 01:42:30 of town um on an ankle monitor working like a halfway house or his own no no he'll be able to live in his own apartment because what Trump wants to do is all the camps. So if you're in a camp, you're not dangerous to society. You're here for punishment, but you're not dangerous. And what Trump is saying is we can, there's a bunch of money that goes to these prisons. People have no idea how expensive prisons are. And there's, 30,000 a year per emmate, right? Yeah, a little bit. It's more than that, really. And really, the real number is, it's like 55 million. I mean, sorry, 55,000 a person. Because here's, it's 30, like 34, 35,000 to keep you in prison. That's not the real number. The real number, because you're not in society, you're not buying. Not paying taxes.

Starting point is 01:43:15 Yeah. So the food you would have bought, taxes. The house you would have lived in, taxes. The, all of the, the income you would have made, taxes. It's really on average, it's about 55,000 per per year per person. So the point is, is that it's better to have this guy living in a, in a room. house with an ankle monitor working at working as a foreman or digging ditches or running a driving a forklift or driving a truck or whatever working at McDonald's i mean do they have to have a you know menial labor jobs can they no but he's got a felon he's a felon so there's not a lot of universities hiring felons so my point is is that he can work a job making 45 to 65 000 a year, living in a shitty rooming house somewhere, on an ankle monitor, still get to see his

Starting point is 01:44:05 kids. His life is really devastated, but you don't need to keep him in a camp. Right. Things are bad enough. Why should we pay for him? Let him start paying back the restitution. Not a lot. He can't pay a lot, but he'll pay something. You know? So, yeah, so, I mean, it's these Ponzi. But then you've got stock manipulators are above that. That's number one. My God, yeah, because those guys make so, or what about the new, the new pumping dump scheme is the rug pulls, right? So what's a rub pool? Cryptocurrency is pumping up. You start a coin, you pump the living shit out of it.

Starting point is 01:44:41 You pay an influencer X amount of dollars to pump it. They push the shit out of it. And then you sell off all your fucking coins and you make $40 million. And then the other, you just don't care what happens to the coin. Yeah, the $400 million that was dumped in by everybody else. I'll say it drops down to almost nothing. And there's some worthless coin that went up to $150 a coin is now worth $3 a share of coins. And you walk with.

Starting point is 01:45:07 Is that illegal, though? That doesn't sound illegal. It sounds unethical, but it doesn't sound illegal. The problem is, I think it's illegal. I think it's unethical. It's immoral. It's all these things. And I think it should be illegal.

Starting point is 01:45:23 But there's tons of people that get away with it and never get charged. And, you know, Colby and I've been approached by people to push coins. And we've always said no. Like, it's always like, no, no. Why? No, no, no. You know, we've gotten on the phone. We've heard the pitch.

Starting point is 01:45:39 We've talked to them. They've gotten two or three on the, but the point is that I'm sitting there thinking, I have a financial crime. I don't feel comfortable telling people to invest their money in something. Yeah. It's as dicey as your new, you know, red ball coin, you know, or your new whatever coin. Like, I don't feel. I can't because if I was a judge and I walked in front of the judge.

Starting point is 01:46:01 How they're going to throw the book at you? Yeah. So you just don't get it, do you? I can't go to trial. I can't explain what happened. And I get that. It's not even like I'm upset about it because I understand. Like, you've been to the system, bro.

Starting point is 01:46:12 Like, you know, you should know better. Like, that's why I feel like a judge would look at me like, look, I get that you're saying you didn't know. Come on, man. Like, you should have known better. And I, you remember next time, five years. Shit. I'd be fucking lucky. I'd be three.

Starting point is 01:46:26 I'd be there five. Thank you. Thank you. Five years. That's not even worth unpacking. Is the $10 million worth the two years? Well, he doesn't keep the $10 million. And his wife doesn't keep the $10 million either, by the way.

Starting point is 01:46:41 She keeps what's reasoned. Like you say, oh, she walks away with the money. No, nobody's walking away with the money. But whatever assets that that guy had, you can shift it to the wife. And there's a good chance because if the wife can say, he can say, I ran this thing for it. The way my scenario is I'm saying once he knows it's too late. There's nothing I can do. He can say that you have to understand that my wife knew nothing.

Starting point is 01:47:05 Right. I did make money. Now, all the money I made was not. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. So they only attacked the fraudulent money. Well, yes. Typically, yes. Okay.

Starting point is 01:47:15 And they do, they'll attack everything if you're married. But if you're divorced, what your wife walked away with, she kept. Yeah. Like that was her. Now, they can try and say, Well, she, like, if they can specifically say, wait a second, brother. Is there a time limit, though? You got, you have to be divorced for two years or?

Starting point is 01:47:33 No. No. No. That's why typically when you hear these guys, like, let's say the BTK killer and all these, these serial kids, anybody, these guys, you ever, you ever noticed they're like, they're like, he was arrested on Friday or he was arrested on, you know, whatever, Monday. And on Tuesday, his wife filed for a divorce. It's like, people are like, oh, she was so disgusted.

Starting point is 01:47:54 She was so furious. She filed immediately. No, bro. She don't want to go down with him. She knows that now that he's, they caught him, he's guilty. There are going to be lawsuits against him. If they're together, they're going to grab their, his assets, which are connected to her assets. So guess what?

Starting point is 01:48:13 If we're divorced, so she files for divorce, goes to see him and says, you do understand. Now, I understand you're saying you're innocent, but you understand what's going to happen if you're found guilty. and I don't know about you, but a lot of stuff that is on the news doesn't sound good. So let's say they, let's say by some miracle, they find you guilty and you're not guilty, but they do find you guilty. It's better if I'm, we're divorced with kids. And they goes, you know, I understand how many, I'll sign whatever it is. And he signs. Because that way, when they do sue him, because he is going to lose, he's going to plead guilty.

Starting point is 01:48:50 He's going to stand up and say, I killed these for all people. Wrong for death. There's going to be a bunch of lawsuits filed. And if it's like, yeah, but he lost. everything during in the divorce prior to him being found guilty and so that's what that's why they do that immediately everybody's like she like a week later his wife filed for divorce oh yeah yeah she must yeah she must have known something or she was so sickened by what he did no no they have two kids and a dog and a house is paid for yeah yeah want to keep that you definitely

Starting point is 01:49:22 want to keep that it's interesting this whole crime genre is amazing you know a Another thing I thought about when I went to court, I was amazed at the lack of cameras in Hell's Kitchen Times Square. Because they caught me running on camera. They barely caught the perpetrator running on camera. I thought the whole thing, they didn't have the brick attack on camera, just me chasing them in the arrest. You know, well, this was 2018, so maybe. No, I said, I still, I'm, I don't know, I'm shocked that there's not more cameras, that they don't use them. You know, it's funny because London is supposedly used to be the most. I'm sure, I'm sure now it's China, but they used to have the most cameras throughout

Starting point is 01:50:06 London. And they said afterwards, they said it's really not, the cameras for as much money as they spent, they said that the crime is just as rampant. It's just as like, it's not really helping that much. I have a little more evidence. But that was, that was 20 years ago. So now I'm thinking with AI and, you know, facial recognition. and I would think that they would help more.

Starting point is 01:50:27 But then people complain, you know, like they got those flock cameras. Yeah, what's going on with this? Everyone's sending me emails and I'm not, or text messages and I'm not really reading them. Sorry, guys. But what are the flock cameras? So the flock cameras are cameras that they, the way it works is that it reads your license plate. But they're all reading your license plate. they're really tracking where you're going all the time.

Starting point is 01:50:56 Not all the time. It holds the information. It kind of purges itself supposedly. It's supposed to be purging itself like every 30 days. Can you get a ticket because of it? Like, oh, you're at this flat camera and at this flat camera, you have to drive over the speed limit. I don't know if they're giving tickets as much as they're saying law enforcement can use it to determine, you know,

Starting point is 01:51:16 can kind of track people. So if there's a robbery here, okay, well, what tags were in this location? at that time. And what people, we're looking for a black male. Okay. Okay. And we're down to four. And oh, look, this guy currently on probation or this guy has a criminal record, pull up his photo. Boom. Let's go show it to the, to the guy at 7-Eleven. Is this? And he's like, yeah, that's the guy. So the problem is, is that they're also, this is the one they use all the time, by the way, which is horrible because they're using this as an example. Some ACLU about to come out. Yes.

Starting point is 01:51:53 Well, what they're using it for is the other day, and they've done this a few times, by the way, but the other day they used it where they arrested this, this woman, a white woman. And by the way, cop, complete fucking dickhead, body cam, everything. So it's on, it's on, there's the videos all over the internet. So he goes up to her, knocks on the way, are you so and so? And she's like, yeah. And he goes, okay. He said, I, you've got a warrant for your arrest.

Starting point is 01:52:19 I have to, you know, I'm taking it down. town. She's like, for what? He's like, you're, you, at three o'clock in the morning, you know, a week ago on this day, you, you drove into this neighborhood and you sold this package. And she's like, what? It's a Porsche pirate. And you sold this package. She's like, when did I do this? And he's like, at 3 a.m. this time, your car was seen going here, doing this. And she's like, I, well, I, I stole a package. And he's like, yeah. And she's like, no, I did not steal a package.

Starting point is 01:52:54 So she's arguing with him. Like, did I drive my car through that neighborhood, you know, or whatever it was? She's like, I think so because of some reason, whatever. But I didn't stop and get it. No, you did. Your car has been seen here. Listen, lady, you stole it. It's on video.

Starting point is 01:53:10 She's like, can I see the video? It's like, you know, no, you can't see the video. I don't have to show you the video. He's just a complete dickhead. And he ends up arresting her. So. She didn't steal anything. She, the flock camera and AI decided that she had an irregular pattern and she drove through this neighborhood several times.

Starting point is 01:53:32 And it decided, it determined that she had stolen the package, that it had to be her who stole the package. When in fact, once they went back and looked at the video, a human looked at the video, they realized, fuck, she didn't steal a package. She never got out of her car. She never slowed her car down. She never this. But she was in the area. She has driven through the area, but for whatever reason, maybe she's got a friend. Maybe she just likes to drive around the neighborhood.

Starting point is 01:53:54 You know, I've done that before. Yeah. This is where real discernment comes in. Right. It could be useful, but the arresting officer in this case is like, what are you thinking? At least look at the video first. Right. And that's a problem.

Starting point is 01:54:08 There was another one where some guy was arrested for, he was arrested for some reason because of facial recognition. So, AI facial recognition pulled his driver's license up. and determined that he had done something. I forget what it was. And when in fact, and so they put out an arrest warrant for him. And then, like, he got arrested, like, in Florida.

Starting point is 01:54:29 And the cops don't know anything. They, I've got an arrest warrant. This guy is for this. He shows up and he's, you know, arrests him. Okay. And the guy's, what the fuck's going on? I don't know. I've got an arrest warrant for you out of Maine.

Starting point is 01:54:38 For what? And they're like, I don't know what says, you know, like, I've never been to Maine. Right. And that's the whole thing. I've never been a child, whatever. Like, it was a horrific crime. He's like, the fuck are you talking about?

Starting point is 01:54:48 And they're like, bro, this is what the warrants for. That's it. You've been arrested. You know, that's it. And he's like, and he's like, we've got a warrant out there. It was, you know, they, grand jury, whatever. And so he's like, oh, you're to your fucking mind.

Starting point is 01:54:59 You never even been there. And of course, once they look at the video and they look at the pictures and they're like, Not even close. No, close. Oh, close. Yeah. Close, but clearly not him. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:55:10 Like, it's close, but it ain't this guy. And he's never been there. And we have nothing other than the AI going through the all the, the pictures and saying, this is the guy, 92% accuracy. They issue a warrant to arrest him and bring him up there. He gets up there. And of course, after they look at it, it takes whatever a week or two for them to finally, someone to finally look at it and go, oh, fuck.

Starting point is 01:55:36 I could see a lot of lawyers getting paid off this. Well, it is a civil rights violation in some ways. No, I don't got it. I mean, a guy if you're in Florida and they say, oh, you're a showmo from Rhode Island or Maine, you say? Yes. Come on, man. And I agree.

Starting point is 01:55:50 I agree. But that's, to me, that's a problem with the system, the human element of the system and not the actual. And maybe it's a problem with the AI. Well, it's learning. It's probably going to get better over time. Of course. But people have, but there's people that are now running around screaming, it's a violation. And I don't want my, my, I don't want my tag tracked and who are you?

Starting point is 01:56:13 And I've seen people breaking these cameras. Oh, there's, there's, I've seen like, videos online. Or they're saw them down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're walking around with them over their shoulder and it's hilarious. But, and I do it, it is hilarious. But, you know, and they're breaking the law and they should get in trouble for that. I don't know if they should go to jail, but maybe a fine.

Starting point is 01:56:32 But what's interesting. And the cost of the camera, I'm guessing. No, of course you got to pay that bad. No, they're not that. They're really very inexpensive. Really? Yeah. Maybe I'll get one.

Starting point is 01:56:42 Have you haven't seen? Listen, I passed 10. The only thing we have in Chicago are the speeding cameras where you're like, fuck and then the light goes I don't know it takes a picture of you If you're issuing tickets because there's no way they're issuing tickets Because I drive by 10 of them to my house Yeah

Starting point is 01:56:57 At 80 miles an hour Maybe at 80 miles and it's 65 Like I'm literally driving And you can see them because they have these They'll have like four or three solar panels There's a pole Three solar panels sticking out way up And then they have a camera mounted

Starting point is 01:57:14 They aren't in Chicago yet Unless they're using the speed cameras for those. But I don't understand a constitutionality. No, they're not. No, I was going to say there's no way. I would have so many fucking traffic tickets right now because I'd whip by these things. But I look at it like this, and I'm sorry, I look at it like this.

Starting point is 01:57:30 Everybody's saying, oh, they're doing this. Okay, yeah, but here's the other thing. What you're not thinking about is this, is that if there is a murder, there's a murder. Three o'clock in the morning, the cops can go and go, hold on, three o'clock in the morning, what vehicles were in that area? Okay, what this, what that. Okay, we're down to two suspects.

Starting point is 01:57:51 Let's go talk to these two guys. Like, let's go grab their fucking cell phones and see where they were. Did they stop? Did they, it's not hard. Well, the inconvenience is worth it in that case. Right. It's just when you hear about a guy getting yanked out of Florida and taking back to Maine. And who knows what happens to him when he's on the inside.

Starting point is 01:58:06 I don't doubt that he deserves a ton of money. Yeah. Like I say, he's on the inside and he's being called a chomo. Isn't that like a bad thing? Won't he be attacked? I know. I'm not saying it's not whole. No, I'm asking. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:58:17 No, of course it's bad. Nobody wants to be a choe. Like, you fucking, you get, there are some states in areas they'll stab you. And listen, there's probably 40% of the people in Coleman in the low are, are chos, you know, but they're protected. You know, if you, if you attack them, it's a hate crime. What? Yeah. So do they get stabbed or hurt or anything?

Starting point is 01:58:39 And they're like, oh, why did you stab him? Oh, fuck him. He's a chow. They're like, oh, shit. Now you're going to, now you're going to get an out. You may get an outside charge. Usually if you stab somebody inside, they don't do anything to you. You go to the hole for 60 days and you're out.

Starting point is 01:58:52 Maybe they might ship you. Even if you poke them bad? Well, if you dies, you've got a problem. But usually... Let me say you poke them, you hit the liver. They don't die, but they don't... He didn't die. So as long as you don't die and the outside charge.

Starting point is 01:59:03 They don't usually... They'll get the shivs are like this. So they just stab them up a little bit. What about the bone crushers? Oh, no, those are... Those are... There's a problem. But do you know if you're using that you're trying to kill the guy?

Starting point is 01:59:16 Yeah. So they know what they're doing. These are professionals. Anyway, coin is this that they say, hey, you were in the area or you were here and they think and they're questioning you. But the flock cameras explain that you weren't here or I was here, but here's where I went. Or I did leave my house and I did have the air. Like, I don't have like, okay, yeah. Well, was anybody with you? No. okay well you were you had ample time to go kill your ex-girlfriend you've sent her messages you're upset you told your buddy you hated her you were there you were in the area you could have done this you had the window to do this the flock cameras may say well guess what he wasn't there he wasn't close enough he did drive by but he never stopped we can track him the whole way and did he come close to her house yeah but not even within an hour or two of her dying but it wasn't him he was in his car, he stopped. We even tracked him here. We have them on camera. There should be a human

Starting point is 02:00:16 components then. There has to be actually check. It doesn't sound like they're checking, at least in the two cases that you- Correct. That's what I think. So, and I'll bet you, the problem is, you don't see the good that those cameras are doing. And we had a politician on here that I interviewed, and his whole thing was like, we shouldn't have to give up any of our liberties, even for convenience at all. We shouldn't be, it's a slippery slope. And he did a whole thing. And I was like, and I understand. What liberty are we giving up in this case with the exception? What liberty is having a camera?

Starting point is 02:00:46 Because one, I mean, that's First Amendment. You're on camera all the time anyway. I'm being on camera all the time anyway. Yeah. You know how many times you drive down the show? You're on camera constantly. The only problem is the arrest and no one looking at the picture and said, wait a minute, that's not that guy. Right.

Starting point is 02:00:59 But wait a minute. That's not that lady. But that happens all the time just with normal human action. Like people just get arrested all the time. They get grabbed and arrested and it's not then and they let them go. That's true too. But now we have something to blame it on. Right.

Starting point is 02:01:10 Right. Now we have a finger to point. I don't have a problem. If anybody should have a problem with it, it should be someone like me, and I don't. I don't have that problem with anything that makes the cities and our streets safer. Yeah, I'm all for it. I want safety. I do. Who wants to live, like I say, who wants to live in a place where people are randomly getting cracked in a head with bricks, getting robbed, getting your personal belongings taken? No one wants this. No one. Where you can't go out for a nice meal without someone doing something crazy? Who wants to live like that? Who?

Starting point is 02:01:43 I don't know. Not I. Put out a survey. So where can people find you? Check out my Instagram, Jason Cross Comedy, J-A-Y-S-O-N-C-R-S-C-C-E-R-S-C-C-E. And my website, jasoncross.com.

Starting point is 02:01:58 And check out the bit that I did about this brick attack. I'm curious what people have to say is on my YouTube channel, and the link will be below, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. It'll be in the description. Hey, you guys, I appreciate it. you watching. Do me a favor, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, share the video to anybody that you think might be interested. Also,

Starting point is 02:02:18 if you go in the description box, we're going to leave all of Jason's links that he just said in the description box. You can click on there. You can go over. You can watch his, he's got comedy videos on YouTube and Instagram, and you can check all those out. You can also go to his website and see where he's going to be doing, is it bits? What do you say? Performing. Performing. Oh, cool. Performing. You can see where he's going to be performing. If he's in your area, I'm probably going to go to the one in St. Pete. St. Pete. Yeah, in St. Pete in December. Really appreciate you guys watching. Thank you very much. And if you want to be a guest, please go to our website, which will also be in the description box. Go there. You can click on the link.

Starting point is 02:03:01 You can go to the Be a Guest page and you can leave a fill out an application. We will get back with you. Thank you very much. See you.

Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How I Caught The Times Square Killer

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