Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How I Made Millions Selling "FAKE" Drugs

Episode Date: May 25, 2024

How I Made Millions Selling "FAKE" Drugs

I was a teenage kid that invented an alternative to illegal drugs. The news broke that we had done a billion dollars. I was visited by every three-letter agency on the planet. The headline on the cover was the $350 million scam. So I was born in Iran in the mid-70s, and we moved from Iran to the United States during the Iranian Revolution. My parents, you know, we were Iranian Jews, so fearing persecution, right? The generation before them were all Holocaust survivors, that whole period just post-World War II.

So they were afraid it would happen again. So we skipped out of Iran, came to the United States via Europe, and came here to create a better life for ourselves, you know, better lives for ourselves. Was this when the Shaw took over? Right. This was, this was right. Well, no, this was the fall of the show. Before? Right. or after the shawl took over you they've right in 1979 uh the shah of iran fell and a new regime

came into iran and a lot of people left fearing the worst right okay sounds like a prudent decision okay so what what what how how did that and how old were you i was like four or five yeah just a kid When your parents came here, what did they do? Like, what were they, what did they do there in Iran? So my, you know, they worked for American companies. My mom worked for Lockheed as a secretary, back when secretaries were a thing. And my dad was an accountant for Cooper's, Cooper's Liberum, one of the biggest accounting firms. A very conservative, boring, you know, jobs.

He was a Jewish accountant. My mom was a secretary. And they had their whole lives mapped out. And then, holy shit, got a, got a fucking move, right? because this might not end well for the Jews. Historically, those things have not gone well for the Jews. So they're like, all right, we're going to bail. We're going to come to America.

It's cool there anyway. Let's go. And literally in the cover of night, you know, with whatever we could carry with us, ran to the plane, went through Germany, came to the United States, and they started hustling. Right. So they started hustling, trying to figure out how are we going to make this work? Right. My dad worked at pizza shops, dry cleaners.

My mom was a stay-at-home mom. And this was all during, you know, the very beginning stages of Iran contract. So, Iranians were not the most popular people in the world in this country in particular. So, I mean, his, I mean, his skill set you would think would transfer over and he'd be able to get a job as an accountant or a bookkeeper or something. My dad's a mystery, man. I have no idea. But also, they weren't looking for, you know, back then it wasn't all about like diversity and inclusion.

It was like, you know, we don't want that, you know, that guy in our, in our company. So the choices were fairly limited, but I think also they saw a bigger upside. You know, I say this too, and I know with your background too, yeah, America is the most insane place on earth for opportunity. And people don't realize this until they've traveled the world. right in england right like uk ireland those places people will scratch your car if you have a rolls royce you got to park it inside somewhere just because you're rich like it is not like you go to your buddies in those places in in a lot of europe and i mean they're they're coming to a little bit now

but and you tell them hey man i got this insane idea and they'll be like fuck off what you think you're better than us like go get a fucking job but here it's incredible opportunity you tell people I got this insane idea. They're like, dude, where do we sign up? You know, it's funny.

I had a buddy that was, actually he was, he was in, he was from London. Anyway, and this was when I was in prison and we were talking. He only got like a few months or some, some,

something stupid, which was still fraud, but it was, you know, he liked that, like they were, they were doing billing for, for some for like,

I don't know, some large company. And they started adding like a dollar and 75 cents of a fee they just inserted in there periodically anyway they ended up getting a couple million dollars it caught up with them eventually and they were uh the feds came in arrested them or indicted them and he ended up doing a couple three years a couple of few years so um but i remember he said one time because most of his life he'd lived in europe he said you know what the problem with americans is and i was like what's that he's like like they don't know their place and i went

what he said like they don't they're not okay with just getting a job and just going about their business like they all want to be rich they all want to try and he's like where in europe you're okay like i'm i understand i have a job and this is what i he's like americans just he's that and i was like that doesn't seem like a problem to me you know not necessarily so yeah i mean it depends what you want you they also have a better lifestyle but they pay a stupid amount of taxes right but They don't live to work, right? They work to live. And that's the difference between European culture and here.

Personally, coming from nothing and having had to rebuild myself many times in my life, I much prefer it here. I much prefer, all right, I could crash and burn, but at the same time, there's no ceiling to what I could do. That's amazing. That's what this great experiment is about. That's why we live in what I still believe in. People argue with me all the time about this is the greatest country on earth. Well, so what did your parents ever end up, you know, getting back into kind of mainstream, you know. No, they, you know, my dad bought a dry cleaner, started it with his family and ran that for, you know, 40 years, you know, working his fingers to the bone.

And that's actually where I was looking and I was like, dude, if this is it, I'm going to go sleep on the beach because this is not what I want to be doing. Right. Work like work sucks. And I definitely don't want to be that. No disrespect to blue collar people, whatever. You know, people want to do that. That's cool. But that's not what I wanted to do. Right. What I wanted to do is to make an impact, to change the world, to do something that not only excited me, but impacted other people. So by the time I was 13, I started getting this like itch to do stuff, but I was in a very restrictive environment, right? Like, you know, it was kind of written out for me that I'm going to go to school, I'm going to do this. Maybe if I'm lucky, I'll become a dentist or a doctor. And we grew up in this wealthy enclave that was not wealthy when we bought.

You know, my parents bought this house. It was like, I don't know, some cult was living there. It was like some Krishna, some kind of commune. And my parents came in. Nobody could buy it because these people were literally camped out in the backyard. And they had this beautiful, massive swimming pool. They were using it as a koi pond, and they had like frogs and stuff in there. And the brokers couldn't sell it.

So my parents came, and they were like they had a little bit of money from their work and friends and family that they put together. and said look we're going to buy this house and literally with kindness they went in and they started slowly you know they brought them some food they asked them very nicely and and you know nobody could get these people out and finally they were like look you guys are so nice what what can we do for you and my folks said look you know we just need you to move we're trying to build a family here and they moved and that area came up very fast and so here we are i mean poor right like Like I never bought new clothes, never went to restaurants, right?

My dad worked at this dry cleaner. So whatever clothes people didn't pick up, that's what I wore in the next day. Everything was either too big or too small for me. And we grew up in this area where I started seeing all this affluence. I started seeing dudes in the Ferraris driving down Pacific Coast Highway, right, with, you know, the blonde in the background, living that life. And I was like, man, I want that fucking life. How do I get that life? Where do I sign up for that?

and i went to my parents and of course they were clueless and they said go talk to the guy next door he's a he's a he's a doctor if you become a doctor shaheen that is the way and i was like all right cool that's what i'm going to do i'm going to become a doctor that that's perfect went to see the dude matt dude was fucking fat he had a big old beer belly it was bald like the wife was fat and bald the kids were fat and bald everybody was fucking miserable he was like you know live in a pay his mortgage i mean he had the things right he had the big house he had the big car but he was he was struggling inside and I just looked at this guy's eyes after talking to him for 20 minutes and I said fuck that that is that

if that's the alternative I'm just gonna go sleep on the beach and so I bailed I was just like there's there's no path for me here but I know that there's a better way right and I had you know the wherewithal I very young age I wanted to make money I read all the books I read you know back then there were no self-help books right you read thinking girl You read like Brian Tracy, it wasn't the whole like genre that we have now, right? So I read all that. So I went to the library.

I borrowed it. I read all that stuff. I earmarked it. I put, you know, notes in it. And so I went off on my own. I was like, you know what? I'm going to figure something out or die trying. Okay.

So what did you figure out? Well, I started getting involved in the electronic music scene. Now we're in the early 90s. And the electronic music scene, the dance scene was picking up. Yeah, I think I got a few years on you. I'm 49 today. It's my birthday, by the way. How do you, Matt?

I'm 54. I'll be 55 in a couple months. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. You look good, especially for a white dude. You look good. That's very rare. That's very rare.

You got this boyish look to you. It's amazing. Okay. So, I got involved in the, electronic music scene, the rave scene, right? Why? Okay. I needed somewhere to live. So somewhere to sleep at least. You have four hours. When you're in your teens, I was like 15. Four hours is good. Behind the speakers, I could sneak into the clubs or get to know the club guys. In front of the speakers, very loud. Behind the speakers, it's just a hum and you can go to sleep. So I would go into the

clubs and I would crash. Well, what did I notice? Okay. So I noticed that the people throwing the clubs broke ass motherfuckers it didn't matter how many clubs they did or how they did it always broke the DJs at the time you know it wasn't like it is now with the electronic music scene the DJs also broke ass motherfuckers so who was making the money there was somebody subsidizing this so so I started looking around can you guess who was subsidizing it Matt I mean no I'm thinking I'm thinking that the the owner of the place no they always drug dealers the drug dealers so i was like dude that's what i'm going to do it's perfect those guys have the cars they got the girls they got all the stuff that's what i want to do right that's that's it

right there that's what i want to do and then i had a moment where i looked back i looked back to my childhood right because i've been in this country now for i don't know uh 10 years right and when i was a kid and i got elementary school and we were in elementary school i had to find a way to get around and to buy stuff so we would go to the liquor store i had a little greek kid who was my buddy and he would run in and he was cute and he would stuff his jacket with nudie magazine remember when magazines were thing with like playboys and the little bottle bottles of uh liquor right and you know glue and you know candy and whatever it was and i'd create a distraction he would walk out because he would fit under those old alarm detectors and then we would sell them at school we would have a business now here's

the amazing thing i know you you talk a lot about crime i realized very quickly that i was really fucking bad at crime and i should not be the one doing crime because we would make a lot of money but we would always end up in detention we would always end up in trouble and i always be getting caught right because they'd be like oh that a running kid he's he's he's the troublemaker so looking back now i'm sitting in the clubs looking at these these drug dealers thinking to myself okay this is great but i really should not be doing crime you know those like uh you ever see those cartoons with like the you got the angel or the devil on the shoulders right and i had those guys talking to me and they're both saying like dude you don't do fucking crime so now i'm thinking

all right i got to figure out a way to do this i was like well what if i could do this without doing crime and so the idea hit me at that time in the 1990s the biggest drug was ecstasy MDMA and the supply of ecstasy had dried up they couldn't get it they were blocking it for whatever reason coming from europe into the united states the majority of it was coming from europe people here didn't really know how to make it as well so there was no supply all these drug dealers who making all this money millions and millions of dollars are sitting around going like crap we don't we don't have any inventory but the rave scene hot as ever so i thought to myself man if i could figure out a way and mind you i was sleeping in the back of clubs and in my

back seat of my car at this time i had nothing no friends no money nothing and i thought to myself if i could figure out a way to make this stuff and i could make it legal using legal ingredients and then sell it through this distribution network this illicit distribution network i might have something right because i can do crime without doing crime so when ecstasy first came out it it wasn't illegal by this point you're saying they'd made it illegal ecstasy was banned twice one i believe in like 1984 another time in 1987 when it finally became scheduled uh and so by the 1990s yeah in the 80s people people had it on jars in you know the tables at the clubs at the bar they would

have any jars and you can go pick one out right but eventually it did get banned so it became scheduled and it was you know very illegal certainly in the 90s so at this time it was very illegal so I went about formulating a natural version of it and I managed at this point I don't know how I did it but I managed somehow to get myself a girlfriend I managed to convince her to let me cook it up in her kitchen when her father, who was like superintendent, he was some school district guy, and he would leave through the front door, I would come in through the back door and be cooking up samples of this herbal formula. And finally, I got a formula that worked. I managed to borrow the ingredients, borrow everything, just so full of energy that everybody started believing in me, testing it on the kids in the neighborhood. until i got something great and fast forward a little bit i end up in one of the the biggest

underground clubs in l.a at the time and standing in front of me is this mega drug dealer and i am shaking right but i know he doesn't have inventory i've been watching him i've slept at that club i know this guy has has nothing and i create i had a backpack filled with little baggies i packed They just like real drugs. And I showed up, and, you know, his bodyguards motioned him to me to come over. And he goes, you know, what the fuck you want, right? I'm out. I can't sell you anything.

And I go, no, no, no. It's the other way around. So I got something I want to say. He's like, well, what do you have? He grabs my backpack, opens it up, sees all these back. He goes, what the fuck is this? At that time, it was about, I don't know, 10 goof filled balls. I didn't have enough money to buy the machine to put the ingredients inside capsules.

So I made it in balls and we dried in the end. I tried to make it look as close to pills as possible, but it worked. And he was, I mean, I thought I was going to die. I was pretty sure this was the end of my life. I said, all right, well, I'm fucking going down. And in that moment, and have you ever been at the right place at the right time? Like, just for whatever reason things work out in your favor. Yeah.

This was that moment. This was that moment. So, two girls come up, party people, wanting product, right? I'm standing a few feet away. This guy's got nothing. Now he's got a choice. He can sell him what I just handed him or sell him nothing and be broke and lose the customers, maybe to someone else, maybe, you know, whatever.

It's like, fuck it. Here you go. He hands it to him. He takes the cash. He looks at me, he tells his buddy, go, hey, don't fucking let him out, right? And he looks at me as like, you know, something to the degree of like, if you're fucking with me, this will be the last thing you do. Now, I can't tell you how much I sweated, bullets waiting to see what was going to happen. And people came up to him and I kept seeing him handing baggies, handing baggies.

I was like, wow, is he selling my stuff? Is he selling something else? I don't know. A few hours go by. People are having a good time. He motions over for me to come. bodyguard takes me over to him and I'm like, all right, that's, that's it. I'm fucked. I got to wash

his car. I don't know. I got to, whatever he wants to do, I'm going to do so I don't get killed. He goes, hey, kid, I go, yeah. When can you get more? Right. And that was it. It went from one guy to dozens of guys, to hundreds of guys, to thousands of guys all over the world. And it became a global

phenomena through the illicit drug trade in clubs. And a lot of of those guys went straight because of me a lot of those guys got distribute the distributions they uh distribution uh contracts they started getting territories and it grew up until the point i was you know under 20 it's probably like 1819 and the news came in where you yeah i'm sorry where are you making this so well initially i was making it out of out of uh a girl's kitchen finally once we we ramped up i got manufactured up i got manufactured on board so private label supplement manufacturers and I had contracts with five

or six different manufacturers who would produce it for me I'd give them the formula I'd give them the raw materials and they would produce it we eventually got it down to these beautiful little blue pills there was five in a blister pack and they came in these beautiful pyramids and I mean I spent most of my later teen years doing press I was on nightline I was on Montel Williams. We did all the TV shows, LA Times, New York Times. We had multiple newsweek covers, People Magazine. Do you have any of those tape? Do you have any of those tapes? All over the internet. Yeah, yeah. This is well documented. I'll tell you funny thing.

So we broke a billion dollars in revenue. The news broke that we had done a billion dollars. This was a huge phenomenon, right? And this is, look, a lot of people on the internet bullshit. And you know that more than, more than anybody, right? There's a lot of bullshit. out. This is well fucking documented because this was before the internet and this was documented in press. And I'm living up in the mountains in my house, right? And this guy called me from Details magazine. Details was a big magazine. And you remember details? Yeah, yeah. And Chris Cornell Soundgarden was going to be sharing the cover with me. He was going to be on the cover, but they were going to have me on there too. There was a whole thing. You know, because everybody wanted

the long hair kid i had i had long hair at the time who's made a billion bucks and they sent this reporter out oh my god what a weenie and this guy i knew was gonna do a hip piece on me right so you know i kind of played it cool and then we tried to shake him he was like following me everywhere you know he really wanted to do like a week in the life and like you know he wanted to see me doing shady things but the fact was i wasn't really doing anything shady and then the fucking article came out right and the the headline on the cover was the 350 million dollar scam but there was nothing inside the article about a scam it was clickbait if you can imagine i was like fuck man if i was like what's the scam and i was handing it to my friends and i was in a panic i was like nobody is going to talk

to me i was like people are going to fucking like hate me after this article comes out because nobody reads and they're going to see this fucking thing and it was big it was like you know i mean it's i have copies i was like eight pages and the thing came out and it was explosive i had i had women showing up at my door with marriage proposals and gifts i had people calling me for business deals i had the head of freaking uh major major investment banks calling me uh so it i you know it had the opposite effect which is crazy what i thought but there i was you know a teenager running over 200 employees i i had most of the buildings in venice beach was were mine if you threw a stone you'd probably hit in venice beach you'd probably hit somebody

who worked for me and i had no schooling had dropped out of high school and absolutely no idea what i was doing i mean how many employees are working are working for you is or you're just you're just thubbing all the work over 200 Okay. This is before the internet. We had a phone room. I had a phone room set up with people answering the phone. Okay. Economics. You were a numbers guy because I know you were a mortgage broker and did a lot of deals. Okay. Pill would cost 25 cents for a package, right? Package of five would cost me 25 cents with the packaging and everything. Cash, $20. That's what we sold it for. All day long. We're printing money, man. 20 bucks a piece all day long. And we would do shows. We did Lollapalooza with the Beastie Boys and the chili peppers and the beer vendors were mad at us because people weren't buying alcohol. They were buying our products.

We would do a million dollars per show. And that's cash. A million dollars per show. And there were, I don't know, 30, 40 states. And I actually had people bringing cash in duffel bag. I had to buy vans to have them drive the cash back to LA. So, well, and banks are taking this cash? You're depositing the cash in banks?

Of course not. That's a totally different story. Some, some, some, but some of it, we had other avenues to, to take care of that. But yeah. Okay. So, I mean, were there, at what point did you, realize that the federal government wasn't okay with this that they were great with it no no look this is this is one of the problems so there's there's a feature film coming out um about me

academy award winning studio uh called believe entertainment um is producing a feature um paris hilton's company just signed on so it's it's going to be amazing they're they're currently in the process of of of production of the film one of the crazy things that we we came across when we were getting ready to uh start production of the of the film is that the crazy thing about my story is that i never did anything to get into trouble for they tried matt they tried i was visited by every three letter agency on the planet but we never scammed anybody we never stole anything we never did anything illegal i had crazy things happened to me so it seemed like i was always the victim of that kind of stuff but as far as my story goes you know look we i was a teenage kid that invented an

alternative to illegal drugs that they had no precedence for so they did call the dea and the dea did come out and they were like what the fuck you want us to do like this is this is a supplement so then they called the FDA and the FDA came out and dude I had yeah I know you've met a lot of federal agents you ever meet FDA agents um no okay they're spectacular because they're literally nerds and I mean I mean literally nerds I think most of them I think you got to have some kind of degree and like the ones that came out for us had like chemistry degrees that were chemists and because they put them in the enforcement end they get guns and badges and pretty sure they didn't know how to use them So they show up at our office and, you know, doing the whole like,

we can kick down your door thing. And I was like, cool. You know this is an office, not a production facility, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, they're like going around, opening doors. They didn't find anything. We have supplement manufacturer. So what they got us on was claims.

There was this law back then that said that if you say something is a drug, then it's similar to a drug. Therefore, you should get in trouble for it being a drug. But it wasn't criminal penalty. It was a civil penalty. So they slammed down on that. They got all the three-letter agencies, audit this, audit that, you know, really trying hard. And at that time, the president at that time, I think was a Bush or Clinton, I forget, assigned a new head to the FDA.

Part of his directive was to figure out how to get rid of me. And this guy went on Nightline with me. He refused to be on on the same show as me. But Sam Donaldson, the great interviewer with Nightline, managed to get him on too. So he came on and he was like, look, you know, it's too late for us to act. The horse is out of the, you know, cart or whatever. And then I did the whole media circuit. And I held very strongly that, look, people are going to do, you know, especially young people

are going to do illegal drugs. That's the wrong way to think about this. We're a harm reduction measure. And we spun it that way, but the way they got to us was by applying pressure. And what I learned is that no matter how right you are, you can never win against the government. They have an unlimited budget. And if there's someone there that has an agenda against you, you're done. You better settle with them.

I was a snot nose little kid. I was arrogant and I really like had my... In my teens. At this time. Yeah, I was in my teens. And so I was like, fuck this, right? And really, look, here's the crazy thing, right? I know your stuff, a lot of it was criminal.

My stuff, a lot of it was almost all of it was civil, right? And so with civil stuff, they just want you to pay, dude. It's the most insane thing. I had no education, right? But the lawyers are coming to me going, all right, so this three-letter agent, the FTC, the FDA, you did this violation, that violation is going to be $27,000. And I was like, what? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is really bad. You got to pay $137,000.

We were making hundreds of millions of dollars. So the intelligent thing to have done would have been to have just paid them. They just want to get paid. I never paid a dime. never paid a dime i settled a bunch of stuff but i never paid it done because i was so arrogant but i was paying you pay either way lawyers accountants you pay either way so the smart thing to do is to pay them you cooperate a little bit you know you you tell them what you know they want to hear you do a couple mea copas and you're done that's how it's worked in the corporate world for however

many years right you think they like apple doesn't have to do that microsoft doesn't have to they all do that they just pay you just pay and you're done but i refuse to do that i had all these great ideals and that ultimately was what led kind of to to the downfall of that how so you know look man i was a kid i was under a lot of pressure at this point too and you'll see i mean i wrote a book on this called billion how i became king of the throw pole called anybody wants to check out there's an audio book on audible or you can get it on Amazon, billion, singular, how I became king of the Thropo cult,

and that's what the film is based on that's coming out. And I just remember as a kid, all the pressure got to me, right? I felt like I was being chased, and I was. You know, they really, really, like, turned the heat up very high. So I was being surveilled. Like, I had a beautiful mansion in Celebrity Row in Malibu that I owned, Cash. and they had like process served like every day I would get served with something and it was just fucking nerve wrecking I'd like go out through the back I made a little ladder to go out through

the back on the beach and go around so they would just freaking stop serving me but I was being followed they would follow me places and the heat just got too much for me like I you know I couldn't handle I was like man screw this eventually if I continue doing this they will find something to get me on and even though i i you know honestly truly was was innocent of you know any wrongdoing so eventually i slowly got out of that uh and uh got into believe it or not more lucrative businesses with with a lot less pressure how did you how did you get out of it you closed the whole thing down and walked away i sold the assets yeah no i just sold the assets over time and um yeah yeah so sold the assets and just walked away.

At first I was a kid, I was like, you know what, man? Like, I could do this again. It's so crazy, right? Like, looking at it going, okay, I'm an immigrant. I didn't even fucking speak English when we came to this country. And grew up through nothing. And I built a fucking company that created over a billion dollars in revenue during my teens. And somehow, in that time, it was fucking thinking to myself, like,

yeah yeah no problem i'll just hand over the keys i'll do it again like how fucking insane is that right that's like uh i i made a film with uh vanilla ice uh a long time ago right you know uh i was a huge fan back then and i made a film with him and i remember thinking to myself like he had that one song right you know the one song and that was it yeah right ice ice baby and i remember when I brought him on to do this film, the film was so bad, and I remember bringing him on to do this film, I had a great idea for this film, and sitting with the guy. And the thing that I realized is, fuck man, this guy had that one big song, but he doesn't realize, that's it. That's all she wrote. And I have lots of friends, actually, that are rock stars that have had that one

song, right? But they don't realize that, like, that's it. That was the height of what you were doing like that will not happen again and it's it's one of those things it's one of those fallacies where we don't realize that there's a time there's a place there's a moment and if you grab it and capitalize on it that that is your moment and likely it's not going to happen like that ever again i learned as i got older i learned hey man it doesn't have to be this like meteoric rise and fall, it doesn't have to be these fireworks. What you can do is build multiple streams of revenue and more consistent, more conservative plays, but it doesn't have to be fireworks. It can just be several conservative plays that over time bring you even more

revenue. And that's what I built. I got involved in Amazon in the early days when Bezos had launched the platform, opened it for sellers. Now I teach an Amazon course where I teach people how to do what I do. We've had multiple exits in Amazon. I got involved in podcasting very early. So, you know, I got involved in real estate also, especially where you're at. It's amazing real estate some years back. So, you know, those things don't bring about as much attention as this like you know firework time but i think even you know guys like us who've had these like massive single successes and i still consider you buddy i consider you a success story and i know you i saw the commercial that you did were like oh i'm a con man all this i don't think you i don't i don't see

you as a comment like that right i think and this is what's interesting i think with you actually i'm diverging a little bit but you know and by the way i couldn't find your american greed episode i want to watch that Is there one? There is, but it's not available. I have the link to it because I actually have a copy. Okay. And we actually, my buddy and I just, I have a buddy and name Zach, we just did a review of it. We reviewed, I reviewed the Dateline episode like a couple weeks ago.

And then we just did American Greed like a week ago. And I think it'll be up in probably a couple days. Okay. But I'll give you the link to the American Greene. I'm, I'm American Greed addict. but those things are so fucking scripted man right because they want to tell this narrative right so you got the guy everything's going great and then this thing happened it's all every single one falls and then right when they start talking about the hookers and the blow you're like ah there it goes but the thing is i see guys like you as you know it's it's it's not like you're miles away you're not like fucking a psychopath you know murdering serial killing like fucking mania You're just like an inch off from what the guy who did what you did did did and didn't fucking get caught or he did a little bit differently and and he's now, you know, living in the big mansions and driving the big cars is not that much different. It's not miles away. It's like, you know, those big marathons. The difference between the guy that comes in first place and the guy that, you know, nobody remembers is really just seconds of time. So that's how I see guys like you.

And you especially, man, I mean, dude, I've been scammed a lot. You know, it was a time, it was a place, you capitalized on. Some of your story is pretty fucking crazy. But when you, after you go on the run, that's where, that's where it goes a little nuts. But before that point, I mean, how many guys did what you did who just fucking now are living the life? I mean, I don't know. they obviously i you know i ended it caught up with me so if it hadn't caught up with me we you know you just those people that it didn't catch up with we'll never know you'll never know

you'll never know so yeah you know i mean i i don't think you were doing you know like individual cons of like you know uh you know i i i don't see what you did as being as damaging as some of the other stuff you know in the true crime world so right and i think there's those levels of great but you paid your time right you paid your time you did what you did 13 years is that right 13 yeah fucking shit man that's got to be insane yeah you know the first 10's the hardest the last three they it's just blew by um so i have a question for you um what what'd you sell on amazon when you said he it opened it up for sellers like what was yeah so i started looking at at this platform right this little ball guy with these like cinder block desk in his office and

i'm like this guy's not a fucking nerd i started reading up on bezos and everything that he was doing i'm like this guy comes from big money venture capital he he worked for one of the biggest biggest firms money firms in the country he's smart and amazon remember it used to be books in the beginning and then he opened it up to cds and then he opened it up to a few other things and movies and then all of a sudden he goes you know what we're going to enable third party sellers to sell on our platform and i thought to myself that's interesting so anybody could sell anything i was like cool i know how to do supplements let me put that on there so i came up with a brain supplement a really freaking good brain health supplement we've since sold that but um i thought let me put this up on

there put it up on there overnight and remember there was no competition we were one of the first on there the next morning this was it was a hundred dollars a pop the next morning we had over thousand two thousand orders like a couple hundred grand in a night just for posting a product that was like holy shit there's something to this i went all in on amazon and we started our company amazon mastery where i i have three parts of it one is i consult for companies i show them how to sell products on amazon we help accelerate their brands on there the second part is i have a course called Amazon Mastery, where I teach people how to put their products on Amazon. And the third is we have our own products that we sell on Amazon. So I've been doing that

since 2009, roughly around then. Did you see the movie Middlemen? No. What's it about? Middlemen or middleman. Tell me. Middleman or middleman. It's basically the internet had just come out, right? Yeah. And this guy, I don't know, he's a one of the guys is a weirdo. And the other guy is also a weirdo, but he's also like super techy. And the one guy says, look, you know, we ought to do.

We ought to start selling, um, uh, porn on the internet. And he's like, really? He's like, yeah, let's, and he's, oh, I can, I can, I can set it up. And he actually steals a server from his job. Well, well, first he doesn't do that. He, they just run it through like the computer through, through a server. But it is, it immediately, it's funny because he's like, well, how will we know when we have a sale after he sets up?

like the website he's like i got it so it's i got this bell it'll it'll it'll just make a bing he's like okay and he sits yeah it's the the scene is hilarious because they're like they put it up and well what do we do now he's like i mean we just wait like we have people have to find the site like they don't know what they're doing it's just it's the it's the infancy of the internet and they're laying there uh like ones on the couch and one's on a chair so i forget but they're they're sitting and all of a sudden they hear a bing they're like hey we got a sale and I know what it was five bucks three bucks something and then he's like oh that's great man that's amazing wow so if so how long did that take like you know I mean if we get one sale

every being and he's oh man that that's another sales that's two sales in like what two hours like ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding I mean he's they're like uh listen it gets the point where that thing is just ding ding ding ding ding ding ding they're like oh my so the guy gets up and he goes to us work work and he and he's he he walks in he says i quit and he grabs a server and walks out of the fucking place because they need a server they don't have any money yet to you know it's just sales are going through but they don't actually have money yet it's so they're they're still trying to figure out like how to process and so they bring in another guy he figures out how to

actually process like credit cards and everything through the so they end up being just just middlemen right so they've got the same thing they have guys that are providing porn photos and videos yeah um and then they're just selling it so they're just they're like we're just the middleman we don't make anything yeah but it's it's a it's a great movie i mean it's you know how quickly they start just just the money just starts rolling in wow but yeah it's eventually they end up um a couple of the guys get busted so yeah look i mean here's here's here's the other thing that i that i learned from watching these kind of like true crime stuff i'm a huge true crime fan a lot of these guys yourself included i think the energy and the thought and the strategy that goes into

doing these crimes if only they had the stick to stick toitiveness to do that right with non-criminal activities or figure out how to do it in a way where you're not getting busted or doing it you know uh kind of an up-and-up way where it's not against the law you probably could hugely succeed like do incredible stuff like i was watching this thing on this guy uh you know he's like kind of like the slovenly fat fucking who's who's the guy who uh did all the crypto shit what's his name uh sam that guy and fred yeah yeah that guy right and i'm thinking all right so like a little rich kid right who's you know i mean he's living a weird life but he's fucking genius like what he's doing is like this guy could have made he ran a ponzi scheme but he could have

yes he partially he did partially totally totally did that but i have zero doubt that he could have zero doubt that he could have done it without that same with the lady right blood testing shit what was it the uh the the blonde lady yeah um um come on holmes uh elizabeth holmes yeah creepy creepy as fuck but yeah with the turtleneck and the in the deep voice what is doing i i looked at that bro she raised a billion dollars i looked at that and i thought to myself i was like man all they had to do right i saw the pivot point the pivot point was when that fucking machine didn't work they had to make it like the size of a fucking i whatever like a cake machine or some shit and it didn't work all they had to do is say you know what

we're going to be like Quest, Quest Pharmaceuticals. We're going to do the same thing Quest does, but for a little bit less. And that's it. And we've got this other thing in the background that we're developing. That's it. But no, they had to have the fucking fireworks and she had to be the fucking superstar. And she fucked it on. You had to say it's going to run, well, it's going to run 300 of the major tests within 30 minutes.

And it's like, what are you doing? like everybody everybody has told you that's not possible every fucking biologist every scientist everybody you've hired has told you this isn't possible and she oh no we're going to develop the tech well that sounds good i'm sure you read that in a magazine somewhere but that doesn't mean it's going to happen so yeah she she she started i mean yeah she she she listen she definitely went all in on the criminal thing i feel she went much deeper into um into a scam than sam bankman freed i mean he's just made some bad he made some bad trades and then just kept trying to cover it up and cover it up she's literally staging demonstrations where they're swapping out the blood and they're

running blood to get it tested here like you got a whole fucking you got a whole scam going on where you're it's like it's like uh the three card monte fucking scam here with your with your machine you know what three card monte is yeah it's the the business that the cards like the playing cards which card is it which card is it she's got a whole thing going on with the blood machine where she would have investors come in and they'd take blood from them and they'd put in the machine they go it's going to take about 30 minutes let's go ahead and see the rest of the place and then they'd have somebody grab the samples run out and test them use other equipment to test it come back say here's your results yeah they'd be like this is amazing yeah it's it's also fabricated but do you think matt okay you're an expert on this stuff do you think that these folks her same bankman free if they if they if they if they're you just like if there was like a stopper that they couldn't do criminal stuff like it was just some somebody would come up from this guy stop them from doing that do you think these people could be hugely successful without doing that yeah i definitely i think sam baintec was successful prior to starting

ft x he just to him it just whatever he what he was doing which is i think it was arbitrage um it just for some reason wasn't enough for him and and and oh i got to go bigger and bigger and big okay you know and then he just started doing unethical things and with her i think she's just she just wouldn't listen to people she kept she had this grandiose um concept but she's clearly a salesperson yeah she clearly if she'd had a if she'd tape just like you said if she tapered down her vision so that it wasn't so over the top she probably would be sitting on a billion dollar company right now a legitimate billion dollar company she had people who are ready to invest in her Yep. People were. I think Walgreens gave her like three or four hundred million or something outrageous.

I mean, it's crazy. How do you fool these major companies? But yeah, she could. She just instead of, you know, it's like, hey, I'm going to develop a vehicle that gets 80 miles to the gallon. Yep. You know, and meets all, all of the, all the regulatory standards. It's just as good as buying a Ford or, you know, any other, any other vehicle. It looks and it's going to look good. No, she has to throw. in or these two knuckleheads throw in there and it can fly what you have to see that the engineers that are like what she could fly if someone say fly you know oh yeah and it also you know it can go you know what i'm saying it can you know it can hold 60 people or you know it's not a bus what are you doing what do you stop stop her from talking yeah it's so i see what you're saying some people just get they go over the top they don't know when to stop she's she's scripting the American greed for them live.

Yeah, yeah, but you know what? I was going to say, this is, you know who's doing it the right way, which is still over the top, but for some reason he's winning, is Elon Musk. Yeah. Like, it's insane. It's like, what do you, like, who the fuck becomes like a billionaire and says, I'm thinking Mars? i think we go to mars like are you out of your what you know i'm thinking we're going to build a

we're going to we're going to start building robots what about robots like that's a thing right can we make that a thing like that's insane did you know he just announced he just announced that the self all the self driving cars they're going to be able to put them on in like a few months they're going to start putting them on on a platform so that you can go on the platform and i can so you go you drive your car to work you park you go into work you put your car on you say my car is now active on the platform i can go on the platform just like uber and say hey i need somebody to pick me up your car will start up drive down the street pick me up drop me off where i want to go and then wait for the next person to pick up

so while you're at work yeah your car's making this payment and then some while you're sitting at your job making your car may be making more money than you are and i mean that like to me like that's gonna you know i'd say five years from now uber's not even a thing anymore it's all self-driving electric vehicles he's he's he's so next level i think he's he's he's not even human it's it's it's unusual the level of stuff that he does and he's he is the new henry ford he is he is an extraordinary human um so i'll tell you funny story so we're talking about the elizabeth holmes thing so this is probably as close as i came to scam back in the rebel xity day so all right so So I've got a big distributorship in Japan back in these days, right?

And you can't really do anything in Japan and like a lot of industries without the mob getting involved. And the Japanese mob, the Yakuza is no joke. Funny enough in Japan, I didn't know this until I went there multiple times, Iranians in Japan are like the underclass criminal class thing. I had no idea. I was like, why are people fucking treating me so weird? They're like, yeah, you know, like the criminals here.

in Japan or the Iranians. I was like, holy shit. Okay, cool. Wait, wait, I can tell you one thing real quick. I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard this. And I was thought, wow, the Akusa, I heard the Akusa is so ingrained in their culture that if you're a corporation and you pay protection money to the Akusa, you're allowed to write it off as a tax exemption. Holy shit. Wow. I don't know if that's true, but that seems like it's like, wow, like they literally budget for it. And we're probably going to be hit for about $2,000 a month for the Akusa, but we can write it off on our taxes. And, you know, it's like, that's insane.

So I've got some crazy stories in my book. So basically, they're involved, not directly through me, but through a distributor that I had there. Because if you're selling that stuff, you're in bed with them. And so we got to make these pills to, they want a million pills. So we've got to make a million pills to ship to Japan. Japan, you got to make them in animal shapes. Otherwise, it's a drug. The workaround I have is if you make them in animal shapes, it's a food and not a drug.

So they can get them and sell them. So it looks like a bear. What's that? It looks like a teddy bear. Yeah, like stone vitamins or whatever, right? So I had to find a guy. It wasn't my regular manufacturer to do this. Now, this guy was an old school, like, it's like Vietnamese families love buying, you know,

back in those days, like these manufacturing businesses come in here. from Vietnam so there's a Vietnamese family and I didn't know them and so I gave him the formula we sent them the ingredients and the pills were done million pills we were late like two weeks and I had to get the stuff on a ship so the stuff gets on a ship and it gets there and I had an auditor go over there to audit you know and he's like dude these your raw materials what color were they and I'm like you know brown their extracts he's like orange I'm like orange I'm like orange he's like yeah the the samples are orange like what the fuck now this stuff is there we've already had a lot of heat my distributor is like i can like he's like you know this could be the end of me

if i don't get the goods in and so i'm like well run it run it up to a lab let's see what's what's in there i assume the guy thought we weren't going to run it to a lab go to the lab uh get the results like it paid for a rush fucking carrot powder the cheapest ingredient on earth he didn't use our ingredients in the pills so now there's a million pills waiting at the warehouse in japan about to go to these yakuza guys um and i'm like holy fucking shit what do we do what do we do talking to my guys i'm like man this this could really really be bad and so i'm like i'm just going to sleep on it we'll call them in the morning we'll figure something and I'll have to remake it, we'll airship, I don't know, we'll figure it out.

Go to sleep, wake up in the morning, and the phone's just, my phone's blown up. And back then we didn't have email, we have faxes. It's just like all of these things in my faxes. I'm like, oh, fuck, we are so fucked. And I'm like, I'll call and I'm like, hey, man, I got to tell you something. He's like, no, no, no, it was like one of those. I got to tell you something. Like, no, no, no, okay, listen.

He's like, no, no, no, you listen to me. And I was like, oh, fuck, we are done. And he's like, dude, whatever you put in that last batch, we just took it to like the biggest party in, in Tokyo. It was the best you ever made. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, that's amazing. Make more of that. And I was like, holy shit, fucking placebo effect.

And they sold all million of them. Nobody ever heard anything of it. That was the end of that phone call. But that was as close as we got to, you know, and then I had it out with the manufacturer here who the guy denied it, but we were like, oh, man, we got lab results. Funny enough. Yeah, I was going to say, I had a buddy who used to, so there was a, I forget the name of it, there was an herbal menstrual pill, like for menstrual cramps, but it was herbal. Yeah. Right. And he said, it looked a lot like, he said, look.

looked very, very much like ecstasy. And he said, so we would go buy them and he said, and I'd get little baggies and I put like two pills in it. And he would go around because he was homeless. I wrote a book on this guy. This is when he was a kid. He's like 13, 14 years ago. So I would walk up and down the beaches to the tourists on Miami Beach.

But he would actually travel on the, he said on the bus line from Miami. He said, I'd go all the way up. He said, every week. And he'd just do a rotation. He goes, because nobody's there a week. later. If I sold it to some guy who came down from Michigan, he's not there seven days later. He's only in Miami for a few days. So he would go and he'd have he'd, he'd walk around and he'd say, I got that X. I got that X. I got that X. And they go, what? You do? How much? He'd be like 20

or 40 bucks, whatever it was. He said one time I sold a couple of bags to somebody. And then I forget what happened. He said he left and he went to another beach that wasn't far from there. And he said, he saw the same guy and the guy came up to him and he goes yo hey hey and he was like he said i mean listen he said i was terrified he said i almost started running but there were two bicycle cops yeah right beside me he was so i thought if i take off running they're going to chase me so he said and if i take off running um i'm sorry he said so i'm sorry he said so i didn't take off running because i also thought there's two bicycle cops right here he's not going to hurt me yeah the guy walked right up to him said bro you got any more of that

And the guy pulled out for money and he goes, here, come over here. And he walked, he says, like, so we walk around the corner and he gives me some money. And I give him two more bags. He's like, man, I appreciate it, bro. Thanks. And walked off. Yeah. He's like, I mean, he goes, it was fake.

It was herbal menstrual pills. It was like. Placebo's wrong. But this was, this was, this was very crazy. And then we had, you know, we had a couple other instances, you know, yeah, I write about it in the book. It'll be in the movie where I flew out there basically to negotiate for my company because they were like, we own your company now or we're going to own it and i i didn't want to do it well this is the akusa yeah i didn't know that's who it was but it's one of those things you know like if you're you're

in uh you're doing business in certain places you're in bed with like you said with those people and they're you know they're embedded in the in the mainstream but somehow you know as a kid i i kind of followed my intuition i had a good intuition about me and so all those things that I think could have gotten me into like real trouble. I had a tendency to avoid. Now, I was scammed several times, like super crazy scammed. I had over a million dollars of merchandise back then stolen by employees. I had one fucking dude.

Okay. So this guy I hired, right? This fucking guy. And people told me I was so stupid because I was so, so young. And people thought, oh, man, this kid came into all these. he's got these fancy cars and the girls and the you know houses and all this like he's not going to miss anything and this fucking dude would work for me and he had a rough life and i was just trying to help the guy out and he had his girlfriend who'd like roller skating with her bikini on

the beach right and she would just show up to bring him his lunch and kiss him and go off and he'd be working in the office i'm like this guy's the greatest worker he's vacuum he's taking out the trash this is great what was he doing he was filling up trash bags with our pills dumping them in the fucking dumpster behind our office in Venice Beach and his chick would escape behind pick up the trash bags and immediately go sell our stuff on the beach right yeah insane I can see that and the other thing that was always insane to me was how little the authorities actually gave a shit like right we reported the guy I called the cops they were like yeah this sounds like a civil matter I was like what I

don't know how people get away with the ship but this is how people get away with the i'm like this guy before everybody had cameras but i was like you can come to my office you could see him taking the bags putting him in the trash like yeah but you know does he is he not just taking out the trash how do we know he's stealing stuff and putting it in the trash i'm like it's got serial numbers on it it always shocks me right like if it was me doing anything remotely like crime i am positive matt that i would be arrested in jail for five times like no thought about that but like anybody else i like look at it especially in this country i'm like holy shit the cops don't give a fuck absolutely and they were like the guy got

away they were like oh it's a civil thing so i had to fire him he actually had the gall to ask me if he was going to get a severance i was like bro right you you take in 10 about 10 grand a day in in pills and sell your girlfriend selling it on the beach and i just busted you and you think you're going to get a severance you're asking me for yeah man you know it's time's so i have a question what happened with the guy with with the akusa when they said they own your business and you said you flew out there i threw out there it was a very difficult negotiation i mean it was like a movie set right we were in one of those uh what they called real cons uh you know they had the you know the the girls that served the tea and it was a very very very very

very tense negotiation, but we managed to negotiate something that worked for them. You know, I can't say exactly, but, you know, I write about it a bit in the book, but I just say anything having to do with tobacco, pills, tourism, anything like that is very, very heavily regulated by them. But in all fairness, I felt like they were honorable guys. I didn't feel like, I feel like if you don't fuck with them and you hold your own, you know, they will respect you. And so I feel like a lot of times, you know, you can be reasonable in unreasonable situations and be able to manage pretty well. Because everybody's trying to live a good life.

Everybody's trying to be fair. Everybody wants, you know, to be treated fairly. And it's usually when people get fucked with where there's problems. and so i understood that it was a very heavy type of a situation and that's just not the life that i you know that i was wanting to be involved in or was was involved in you know like i see a lot of times i feel like kind of a lot of people bring that stuff about them right like there's stuff that happens to mafia guys like i know you you you had an interview with michael francesi Francisi what is it what how do you say his name francis francis francis you're

fascinating guy very interesting it was a good interview but like you you see the things that happen in that lifestyle and like i feel like most people you got a choice right i mean unless you're caught in crossfire most people have a choice where you're like you know what like i'm not going to bring that into my sphere of influence like i'm not going to bring that stuff into my life and i feel like when i was young and starting this company even though i I didn't know what I was doing and a lot of that stuff was happening around the periphery that I made the right choices to kind of, you know, go around that stuff and to not, you know, not let it affect, you know, no decisions that could permanently affect my future in that way.

Yeah. I was going to say when FedEx, I want to say it was FedEx or UPS, they, I watched a, it was a this was after the um you know the wall had come down and all the um all the baltic countries were breaking off from the old soviet union uh you and they they opened it themselves up to starting new businesses right like a McDonald's came in and uh and a bunch of american manufacturers came in to open up factories and start selling products and i remember one of the things that so i I watched a 2020, and I want to say it was either UPS or FedEx. They were talking about how they'd gone there to start, you know, to open up. And they'd been told by all of these people in the government, like, come, come, we're, we're ready to really, you know, open up and help you.

And he's like, so we get there and we're trying to open up our store. And he's like, but, you know, we need permits and things like that. So we go to the permit office. He's like, I go in there. I'm like, hey, I'm from FedEx. And, you know, I've filled out the paperwork. Here's the papers, you know. what you know what what what what's the next step i need to pay and they're like right they're like

no no no you don't don't pay yet we have to review everything okay so he said we review he goes he reviews it and like well how long will that take it's oh i don't know it a little bit he so i wait and he lets him wait there like there's like four hours left in the day he's like i wait like four hours he said the guy's like with they're closing up he's like oh come back tomorrow we should have it tomorrow and he's like are you sure he said you know he said i he said i he said i can refer you to someone that can help you fill the paperwork out so make sure it's perfect it it goes through really smoothly and he's like no no he's like i understand the paperwork i we have a translator and i i've got it we're good we're good he's like okay next day comes he sat all day next day came he said

i sat halfway through the day and the guy at one point i said look how long is this going to take and he looked at him and he said you know he said it goes a lot smoother if you go to the guy that knows how to fill out the paperwork he says and i look down and my fucking he's like my invoice is my i'm sorry my envelope is with this paperwork is sitting on the desk and he's like okay he said i i think i understand he's like i'm not really he's like so we didn't really he said let me go back and talk to my people here so we go back and we talk to talks to his boss he's like look i i think these guys want to bribe and they're like well we're not going to bribe anybody he's like well they want me to use his their person oh you filled all the paperwork correctly right yes well let me call so then they call somebody in the government they talk to him they call down there they come back he says I'm sorry about that go in tomorrow he goes in tomorrow and the guy sits there and he says yeah I got a phone call I understand we're going to start processing the paperwork and he said but it'd go a lot smoother if you use this other guy and he's like even you got the call he's like I know and I'm I'm going to I told him I jump right on it

And another day it goes by, another day it goes by, he said literally, he says, you know what, let me call your fucking guy. He goes to his boss. His boss is like, just call this guy. Calls the guy. He said, the guy meets me in the, or in the like the waiting area. Yeah. He walks over to him or he tells him, look, it's whatever it was, like nothing. It was like $1,500 or something.

Yeah, yeah. It's $1,500 to hire me. He pays him right then. He walks over to the guy. he opens up the paperwork he flips through the paperwork he hands it to him and he says yeah it's perfect it's fine boom you have to pay a $50 fee we give you the permit like just like that boom he's like I wasted an entire week he said the problem is is that the government has turned into he said the mafia yeah and he said and they're very good at what they do you know like he's like that wouldn't fly in

the u.s there are laws that say I can't recommend you go to somebody I can't even recommend a lawyer for you to talk to like if you were to go to public records or go to and say hey i want to file this permit they say okay well you got to fill out the permit okay well hey do you know anybody that can help me yeah i can't recommend anybody i'm not allowed to by law you're not allowed to recommend yeah because of things like that so they've got a whole you know some of these countries they just the mafias they're so the scam is so ingrained yeah that it's a part of the government yeah people would argue that it's the same here right and i and i i i'm i got to tell you it's a funny thing i almost find it a little refreshing the small time

corruption because you kind of know that's like it is what it is there's no illusions about right like in in the case you were describing of course you know it seems like the people were a little bit uh naive about how things work but in general you're like oh okay well this is how it is i give you 20 bucks and i get off the ticket right most places you're like okay what what's bothersome is when they're so corrupt and they make like they're righteous and that's the that's the thing that's troubling to me hypocrisy right because if they're like look we're corrupt here's the corruption it's small time corruption right we got to eat everyone's got to eat you know you kick down a little bachish and you're done i'm like oh that's actually refreshing that's who you are right

great but at least it gets done as long as it gets done So look, here's the thing, right? Now I run multiple businesses, eight-figure business. I've got one-nine-figure business. I coach people all the time on how to make money. I teach people through my Amazon course, how they can make money on Amazon. And Amazon's actually a perfect example of this. You cannot win in business without having an unfair competitive advantage.

And I learned this back in the day when I was day trading. I day traded for a number of years after herbal ecstasy, doing heavily leveraged commodities, gold, oil, all that kind of stuff. And I learned very quickly that there's, you know, really three people, more or less, right, who are making a profit consistently, right? It's people who have some type of unfair advantage or information, right, be it insider trading or they have some way of gathering information that you and I don't have access to. It's the people who sell the courses on how to get rich or how to trade or how to do that,

the big money and courses and education. And the third are people who get lucky. And that's it. You can't time the market. Business is a little bit different. And I tell people this all the time because there are ways where you can legitimately legally within the rules of business get an unfair advantage and there's different levels of that so you've got white hat gray hat and black hat believe me 100% of the major corporations

in this country in every country do white hat and gray hat and they push the levels of gray to the end where they don't go over is what they do in black hat right and then when you go into black hat stuff you have varying levels of that you have civil issues and then you have criminal stuff right so if you can manage to stay in the gray white hat kind of stuff you can win if you stay just do what they tell you by the rules you are never going to win right you might have a job you might have a way of selling your hours. You might have a way of like struggling like everybody else. But when you see one company getting above another and succeeding, one person succeeding over another, that person has an unfair advantage. And that's what I've spent the last 20 years, 30 years developing these

systems that I teach people on how do you develop an unfair advantage without doing stuff that's against the law that hurts people and doing stuff that helps people? Yeah, I was going to say I have, I always, you know, like the two guys that I was talking to, right, on that video you watched the other day, Tom and Wade, like, you know, like their channels are, I think Tom's probably got, he might have 20 or 30,000 subscribers, Wade's approaching 10,000. Yeah. And I got like 240,000. So, and we, Wade started out basically, I think about the same time I started out. And Tom's been doing it maybe a little bit longer. But I have an unfair advantage because I have a story. And I know that. Like I'm not like, oh, you know, I'm just that good. No, no.

I have a story that allows me to go on bigger platforms and kind of conscript their subscribers and pull them over to my site, over to my platform. So that's one, you know, example. And then I was going to say, you just mentioned the other thing, the, I mean, You know, you, it's impossible, you know, it's impossible really to schedule timing. Like, it's just luck sometimes. So, and I give an example of that. I interviewed this guy that wanted or has a theory about O.J. Simpson basically having another guy that was with him when he did committed the murders, you know, of Nicole Brown and, um, and Ron, a goal.

gold gold gold goldman anyway um so he's got this whole theory on how whatever it's it's it's i don't even know but he's got this whole theory right that they owed oj owed money he went to go get it from you know for drug debt which doesn't make sense because he's worth millions of dollars but whatever this guy's got a whole theory he's got all these different so listen i need content he's interested in telling me the story we did a stream yard okay we'll do this too maybe it does well maybe it doesn't You know, even if it's a stream yard, even if it does badly for me, it gets 10,000 views. It could be a filler video, whatever. Sure.

So we do it. We talk to them. Okay. Colby, my editor is like, I'm going to hold this until we had. Because what we'll do sometimes is we'll put out a video. So let's what we put out. Sometimes we'll think, this is going to be, this should be a good video. We put it out and we think it's going to get 20,000 in the first day or maybe 30, whatever.

And then the next three or four days, it'll get 50, right? So we think, okay, that's for my platform. That's good. And so we put out the video and it gets 8,000 views. Yeah. And so it's already trailing down. And you can see that. So Colby's like, shit, you know what?

Throw another video in that we already feel like probably isn't going to do great. But at least it'll give us another 8 to 10,000 views. Sure. So he'll do it back to back. So sometimes people are like, damn, like you put out five videos, this, you know, like, wow, yeah. So we put out his video thinking it's not going to be a hugely successful video. We put it out, O.J. Simpson dies the next day. No way.

That video, and here's what's even funnier is it was actually did okay. Like the first day, it got like 14,000 views the first day. It was like this is like, like this may have by tomorrow, it may be at 20,000 views. Like that's pretty good. Yeah. And but instead that 14,000. views and I was driving to the to the doctor right at a doctor appointment and I got my cell phone up like you know that you clip it on the front you know you got those things that hold your phone so it's

and I'm driving so I'm looking at my phone for the you know for the GPS and I have pushed notifications when I get comments and you know all of a sudden I get a comment being being being I'm driving Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, and I'm like, the fuck is going on. Like, what is this? Bing, this goes on for the next 20 minutes and I'm thinking, I don't, you know, I'm not really looking at them. Yeah. So I'm like, God, something's, something's happening.

Like, I'm getting a lot. Like, this is like two, three times as many as I typically get, but I don't really watch it either. Sure. You know, at first, I don't drive. So when I am driving, I saw, I was like, yeah, I could be. And then somebody of mine contact sends me a text and says, yo, bro, you know, you put up a video yesterday of O.

O.J. Simpson, he just died. He's like, they just announced it, like, 30 minutes ago. Yeah. Oh, my God. So I call Colby, and Colby's like, I don't know what, I'm like, hey, what happened with what's going on? I explain the situation. He's like, listen, this thing just jumped up in the last 30 minutes. It's got like 400 fucking views. And it ends up getting three or four thousand views over the next few hours. That night, it got over like 200,000 views in the middle of the night it ended up at over it's over half a million views right now wow because it did this it just kept going and going for like the next week but by that point other people started doing oj video now they flooded it everybody flooded oj videos and uh so yeah it's got like

400 000 i mean i'm sorry it's got over 500 000 views i want to say 500 but you're but like i couldn't time that yeah like you know what i'm saying like that was a fluke that was luck you know so i mean like so far with the YouTube thing like I've had you know I got an unfair advantage which I love yeah I like the unfair advantage for me that's and you know and I've got you know I've periodically had a few a few just a fluke you know and of course the other thing is you know I have a good work ethic like I like what I'm doing so it's easy for me to do yeah you know even though I work a lot I I I'm trying to i'm trying to pull it up right now to see exactly where you're using leverage to amplify the results that you got the first time which is super smart right you did the uh soft white underbelly

i think that was your highest rated one that got got millions of you but no yeah it may be yeah i think it got more than lex friedman who you did but you're utilizing those to propel you forward and and my company now podcast coli talked to people about this all the time one of the the the biggest advantages that single operators people like you and me who want to be thought leaders in our space is podcasting and being able to amplify yourself on podcasts and what most people don't understand most people go okay man i'm going to put out a podcast it can be great i got these great ideas dude i'm just like jo rogan i'm just like joe rogan so what i'm going to do is i'm going to put out a podcast and everyone's going to want to listen to it and so they make the podcast

they put this to you they put all the effort into making it look slick and they put it out and it's 12 views right tumbleweed city 12 12 views 12 14 14 views right and they're like what the fuck so i learned early on that's how i got the film deal for him for my film for the book billion uh how i became king of the triple cult the way i got the book deal was i was like well how do you actually get attention to these shows and there's a few different tactics if anybody wants to reach out to me I'll send you. I've got a guide for it of exactly how I did it. But the way you do it is by going on other people's shows and borrowing their audience and bringing them to your show. And that's exactly what you've done. That's why you've blown up when I looked at your show and my publicist

was like, hey, you got to get on Matthew's show. He's blown up. It's because, and when I looked at it, is because you are using the momentum from your fame. and from all this great stuff that you've done on other people's shows and bringing that audience over to your own and that's you know at podcast cola that's basically what we do for people yeah yeah that's definitely what i'm doing like i think that's the only way to do oh by the way i was wrong it's only got it's got 487 000 views so not quite 500 000 whatever i was close it did great um but yeah that's that's uh definitely i think you know here's the thing it's like it And it's still, of course, it's, even if you think, oh, well, that's, you have an unfair advantage.

Bro, an unfair advantage, it's still a lot of work. You still have to do the work. The problem is that I'm now doing the work, but at least I'm getting something. And even then, listen, Colby and I were doing one or two podcasts a week for, I want to say a little over, no, no, I'm going to say a year for a year. then I changed I went from my old apartment to here and then I jumped it up like I think I usually say like four but Colby told me no he said you started do we started we went to three yeah I was like okay so we went to three and then he's like and then it just next thing you know it was like okay I can do three I we did that for like six months and then I started doing four and so now it's like four a week and it honestly didn't really hit until about a year and a half ago where it started paying all of our bills yeah but it's still that still two years of and i was getting a check but i'm not getting enough check to cover anything like it's it's an extra 400 bucks 800 bucks like you get 300 bucks you you bust your ass scheduling things making thumbnails having people come here picking off at the airport doing all you know you're

running around doing all this stuff and you get a check and you do that multiple times a week and then you get a check for 200 yeah that's a slap in the face but after you know after like i said after a year and a half to two years and suddenly it's like it starts to happen and now it's like okay this is paying my bills every single month is it is this what you do full time now is is the YouTube thing I do this yeah I do this and I do keynote speech speeches but once again because of the platform yeah um people see me and like mortgage brokers and brokerage conventions and um no way bankers will see me and they contact me and they're like look we have a we have a seminar would you come and speak at the seminar and they're like what do you charge and and i'm like you know and i'll tell

them what well how many people are going to be there and then i'll throw out a number and i know my number's too low because every time i do it they're like oh we're so thrilled to have you i'm like oh i didn't charge it up you know so um so yeah they'll they'll say yeah absolutely we book it you know i fly in sometimes i'll fly i like the ones where i fly in in the morning and you you an hour or two hours later you do your thing and you fly back out that night you know But sometimes I have to stay the night because just the way it's arranged. So how did they justify that? Is it like counter intelligence kind of like bring in the hacker to talk about cybersecurity kind of stuff?

I've actually done cybersecurity ones also, which I didn't understand at all because I was like, I'm not, I'm not a techie guy. Like I didn't do stuff. And they're like, yeah, but, but you did. You created websites to make people think that you had bank accounts and had money in the bank. They're like, that is cyber. The other thing they said, people think that hacking is where you go in and you break into the software somehow and you write a special code. And he says, that just doesn't happen.

He said, what hacking typically starts with, he said, is social engineering. He goes, which is what you did, which is exactly what I did. You know, I would get, I would convince social. I make a phone call, get a little information, call back, alter my story over and over and over until I found out what I wanted. Then I'd go into social security and get them to issue me a social security number. to a person that doesn't exist. And I only did that because I had to make about six phone calls or eight phone calls to figure out what exactly do I have to say and provide them to get this.

So, and I did that a lot or I talked to somebody before, you know, within 10 minutes, they've told me enough information for me to steal their identity and they have no idea. So crazy. You know, so, so I, what I do is I go in. But with, I think with, with the, with the banks and financial institutions, it's basically it's more of a hey this is a For a limited time at McDonald's enjoy the tasty breakfast trio

your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Hey so what did you want to talk about? Well, I want to tell you about Wagovi.

Yeah, Wagovi. What about it? On second thought, I might not be the right person to tell you. Oh, you're not? No, just ask your doctor about Wachovee. Yeah. Ask for it by name. Okay. So why did you bring me to the circus?

Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wagovi by name. Visit wagovi.combe.com for savings. Exclusions may apply. Slippery slope. Like here's how it started for me and here's the point it got to. Okay.

And I know you think that that's, that it's insane. but I mean it started with me whiting out a 30 day late like I whited out one thing on one document that's so minor yeah and yet the next thing it just and the reason is is that I got emboldened by it I was like oh my god I can't believe that worked let me try this and now this works and now this works and before you know what you think I'm I'm amazing at this I'm untouchable and before you know what you're doing ridiculous things and you know and so I explain all that I explain how I would get caught and I'd get around it and I this would happen and that would have so they do it more of a hey look and then I explained hey third then I got I got I got arrested I got I did 13 years in prison

I actually got 26 years I did 13 yeah so you know I talk about all this everything that I lost you know what it um you know financially and mentally what it did to me what it did to my family what it did and I you know I go through the whole thing of like listen it's not worth it like this isn't worth it like you think it is and look I'm not going to lie to you I thought it was pretty fucking cool at the time. But in the end, you know, and I always love those guys who to do the whole, well, I wouldn't change anything because, you know, it made me the man I am. You're a fucking idiot, bro. I change everything.

I change everything. This is the thing with crime that I really like, I'm like, are there some guys that are living? Okay, I watched the, the Pablo Escobar one, the was it, the Narcos, the one with him. Do you ever watch those? That was a really good. Yeah, I watched. Yeah, I couldn't watch the, the. there's all the blanco yeah the the next one but this the narco is the first one with

Pablo escapore was really good i remember watching that and going fuck man this guy's making billions of dollars but like his life is shit like he can fucking you know he's got the house and the pool and the like all that shit but he's on the run and then i look at like the mop guys right and i get you know living that life and you know whatever that story is right i'm a godfather fan we're all godfather fans right but at the end of the day you look at like the life that they live by you know living the life it doesn't seem like that good of a life like it seems like you got to always look over your shoulder it doesn't seem like the life of an entrepreneur where you're like man you know like i'm i'm going to go this

whole summer on a yacht and travel through europe and come back and it'll be relaxed and they eat great it's boring but i'm not really boring but it's like you know it's it's stable stuff their stuff is like you know they could get shot at any minute right like the dude's talking about man you know that they're taking me into this room uh uh michael francis he's like man yeah they call me a three a m they're like you know vini's got to you know he put me in the car you know he blindfolded me i go into this room you know i don't know if my best friend's going to shoot me i'm like that is not good you do not want that it's great for tv you don't want that that is terrible I don't want to live there's no amount of money that that makes that a good thing so and that's the other part of this whole thing and there's there's a great book god who wrote it it's oh no narconomics narco-economics something like that and it's this guy and i've talked to him several times I think I was a little offended that he didn't put me in his in his book because he talks about the herbal drug phase and he neglected to mention me but what what

What's interesting is he talks about the drug trade, and he talks about how it's like any other corporation, where the guys way at the top are like the CEOs. They get CEO's salary. The guys in the middle get middle level management salary. And the guys at the bottom, the dudes that are like actually doing the hands off of handoffs of the drugs or whatever they're selling, the crack, the cocaine, the heroin, whatever it is, those guys are earning hour for hour as little as the guy working at McDonald's. and in fact now in california's 21 an hour minimum wage for those so they're probably McDonald's probably more lucrative because they figure he calculated how long do you have to wait on the corner how long do you have to run from the police how long do you have to look at and all that stuff turns out they they're making half of what fast food employees make but with this

incredible amount of risk so at the end of the day i guess you're right i guess there there are adrenaline junkies and people who live on that kind of like fuel but at the end of the day it really doesn't pay it doesn't make for a harmonious life a life that's like really meaningful but i i guess it makes up for some pretty fucking great stories yeah well that's that's only good if you can lever if you can monetize it in some way and our guys are great stories and they're still working at you know the gas station so so let me ask you this is do you think with like now with the internet and like everything you know everything that's that's happened technologically are there still the same number of guys that are doing like the old school face-to-face cons

like a matchstick men type type stuff listen i i and it's funny because that that happens all the time But there was actually one the other day. I probably, I think Zach and I did an episode on my buddy, Zach and I did an episode on this probably six months ago. And it's just because we read a couple articles and I was like, listen to this. I know exactly what these people were doing. There were two women that were renting an Airbnb for a week. And so they rented an Airbnb. One of them obviously opened up a corporation or they had someone open a corporation.

or they had someone put a DBA in their name because they get caught very quickly. Yeah. They weren't sophisticated, but there's a very easy way to fix everything, the mistakes they made. And they'll, of course, they'll go to jail. They'll figure out what those fixes are. They'll come out and they'll do a better job this time. So, and what they did was they rent a place, an Airbnb for a week. And they put it on like Craig's list for sale at slightly below the value of what they're selling at us.

So let's say it's a $350,000 piece of property. They say, hey, we're selling this for $2.90. People show up and they're like, look, we need a deposit. And they would allow, they'd be like, you can write it to the title company. And they're like, well, you know, you can't write it to me, write to the title company. And they write it to the title company. And so they okay, great. And they give them their information and they say, I'll drop it off.

So one of the people says that are the real estate agent. The other one's just a homeowner or whatever. And so that people, so every day they're collecting. And the fact is, is if multiple people show up that day, what does it matter? holy shit it even helps you everybody's looking at the house they're all like oh my god looks like you live there right fully furnished so so they end up getting something like 400 in like a week they get 400,000 dollars and then of course they move you know they they leave the Airbnb and people are trying to call them and trying to show up they're like one where's my money too like

the appraiser needs to get in where you're going to call you can send an email to the email address but they're not answering you can call their phones but their burner phones they're done and so these people have the money so then they start going oh where'd that money go they call the police they track it and they go it all went to this this corporation they try and call the corporation they can't get in touch they're like is this civil is it criminal well there was enough people that they said okay you know what it's not civil it's going to be we're going to go with criminal on this and they said okay and so they launched an investigation they track these people down they end up they end up tracking them down somehow and they grab them like that's a that's an

To me, that's an in-person scam. You had to look at these people. You had to talk them into giving you a deposit. You had to take the deposit, shake their hand, be convincing. So that's a scam. But there's tons of scams much like that where people are meeting in-person, shaking your hand, convincing you to give them money. That happens all the time. It still happens.

You have a better chance of success if you're well-spoken and you have it set up right. You have a much better chance of success than doing an internet scam. doing an internet scam dude i look i i i think of myself i think look okay i'm pretty savvy i watch i watch crime stuff i watch your stuff i'm like i fucking we never get scim never get scam never get scum you you'd fall for that though wouldn't you a few years ago yeah that one maybe not not so much but i'm i'm i'm i'm a little bit smarter with real estate i might but i wouldn't i mean i don't give anybody a check until i i i do the you know thing so i'm i'm i'm staying in this uh apartment that i had in the uh marina del raid by the water right fancy bill

building. And I need to get a website. This was probably 2006, right? 2007. This is a crazy fucking story. So I'm putting it up on Craigslist. No, no, sorry. This was like maybe 2008, a little bit later, right? So put it up on Craigslist. Hey, I need someone to build a website. I thought I'd get someone local. And I get a bunch of people. This one guy's like, hey, yeah, I'd love to come down and meet with you. Here's an example of all the sites I did, whatever. A heavier set gentleman. And so I'm there shows up in a suit and tie, all this stuff. This is great. love to build your website. It's going to be a thousand bucks. I just need a deposit, 500 bucks. This is where my intuition comes in. My intention was like, I like this guy. He's saying all the right stuff. He's like, he knows all the things about the website thing. So I'm like, okay, it feels good. So but I was like, something about me was like when I went to sign the deposit check, I was like, I'm not going to like actually sign it. So I just like put a line and I gave him the deposit check. He went off. He cashed the check. I think he, he, he he must have signed it himself cash the check and then the number disconnected right so i realized

that this guy was you know this was his whole schick he figured out how to be a website designer he would answer ads he would show up with a nice suit he had a nice car right okay forget about this guy now fast forward to just before covid i go to home depot all right with my kid and you know a lot of the stuff i think is like personal maybe maybe i was greedy i think about that right and this guy comes up to me and he's like hey man uh my kid's in the car he points through the car and he's like uh i just got to get some money for food and um i got this gift card do you know where this is going so this guy has a fucking home depot card right he's like he's got 500 bucks on it i just want 400 bucks for it you know it was a uh my wife gave it to me as a

present but like I got to get food for the family I'm embarrassed and I was like yeah but that's just a fucking piece of plastic I'm like he's like no no problem let's go in you know and he had it written with a marker on the on the gift card he's like you know it said like five hundred and twenty three dollars and twenty two cents it was real legit so because let's just go in and you can check the card and if it's good you can just pay me for it and I was like I don't know man I don't know he's like look just give me a hundred bucks At this stage, I'm like, man, you know, it's a hundred bucks for a $500 card.

I'm helping this guy out. That's his kid in the car. You know, it's like, this is like, this is going to be great. And then, you know, I'm going to get, you know, 400 bucks worth of extra stuff. This everybody wins in this scenario. So we walk up to the register. He hands the lady the card, right? The lady runs it through.

I go, how much is on the car? She goes, yep, it's what's on there, $523.13. He's like, cool. Let's go to the car and, you know, get the $100. I get the $100. I get the $100. I give him the $100. He hands me the card.

I look at it. It's got the same, 523, whatever. I go and I do my shopping, get to the register, and the lady's like, sir, there's no money on this card. And I'm like, holy fucking shit. This fucking guy, so quick that, you know, with this hand, slide a hand, swapped the blank for the one with the money in it. If I was smart, I should have taken a picture and could have gotten it online. Go back to the parking lot because I was like, oh, that was his kid in the car. and some lady with like four kids is getting into the car with that kid

it wasn't even his car or his kid then I go something is weird here weirder than what I thought and I think back I think back I'd seen that guy before it was the fucking dude that cashed my check for the website

I I when you first start the story and you said you were at Home Depot I thought you were going to say you ran into that guy Yeah, but then you started on this other one it was him saying why didn't you didn't recognize him I didn't you know he was dressed in like sweats and stuff But I played it back into my head and I was like holy fucking shit he was gonna get that it was like a cosmic fucking thing Or he was gonna get that fucking 400 bucks for me and I had that Put on my board in my office and I told everybody the story and I was like you know what I lost you know whatever was the hundred bucks or whatever But um that's the story that I have

But this reminds me that anybody can fucking get scammed, no matter how fucking smart you are. And I was like- So I sell paintings on Etsy, right? Yeah. So I had this woman who contacted me, well, I was probably a Nigerian, and probably a male Nigerian in Nigeria. But anyway, so she sends me a text and she's like, hey, how much is this painting? I don't want to go to the website, but I love the painting. And I was like, oh, okay. And she says, can I send you a thousand dollars? Sure, no problem. She said, I'll send you a cashier's check. I said, no problem. sends me a cashier's check. The cashier's check. It was getting delivered like that day. Yeah. The next day that I messed up. I messed up and I paid. I ended up getting it for 1400 or my husband or by somebody got it for 1400, but 400 was supposed to go to my cousin. Can you do me a favor? You're going to get the,

check you know the cashier's check tomorrow and i did i get it and it sure looked perfect looked great and she said can you cash it and send four hundred dollars cash out four hundred dollars to my my cousin and i was like yeah as soon as i get the check well i get the check and of course she's saying hey have you got the check yet i said no i haven't got the check yet and so i i drag it out for like a week until at the point where she's saying to me like what's going on what kind of games are you playing I don't I was like, come on, you didn't think I was going to fall for the fucking fall for this. Did you like, you know, this is, it's a scam. Like, I mean, you know, the check is, it's fake.

I'll deposit it. They'll give me because I've had my bank account for so long. They're going to immediately say the $1,400 is good. I'm going to send you the $400. And then three days later or a week later, they're going to say, hey, this isn't a real check. Yeah. And they're going to take $1,400 from me. And I lost $400.

Like, you know, but yeah, people, people are out there actively doing it. But I do think going up to someone in person looking in the face gives you a better chance of getting money out of them, unless it's a small scam. Yeah. There's people that do it for 25 bucks. And again, it feels to me all the time. Like, I would never even consider doing something like that. But like, it seems to me like the current governmental situation is they don't give a fuck. Like I went to Home Depot and I was like, I talked to the manager.

I said, hey, buddy, I just got scammed in your store. This is what the guy looks like. Can you pull up the camera footage? And you know what they said? Ooh, civil matter. Civil matter. I was like, what? I was like, he was using a Home Depot card.

Your girl told me that card had that money on it. Just give the footage, call the police. He was like, yeah, I don't know. But I think these guys know that. They know that. They know that like, it takes a lot of balls for them to do that. like it takes a lot of balls but then again this guy i guess what could he could he go to jail for like a hundred bucks scam like that no i mean he could in florida not in california um

or new york but you know listen there there are there are scammers and literally when they talk to him in new york they're like they'll they'll tell them that i come up here and i run scams and then i go back to florida and i spend the money and they're like why don't you run the scams in florida now they'll tell them oh no no you'll go to jail in florida that I thought you in jail for anything in Florida. Oh, man. You don't want to fuck around. You know, and you've seen our sheriffs, right?

You've seen the videos of the sheriffs that come out. Yeah. They're talking about just gunning people. Like, they, you know, they're not playing around, bro. Wow. They're not playing around. And listen, when I get pulled over, I'm very respectful. Yes, sir.

No, sir. Absolutely. I'm, thank you for stopping me for speeding. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm so embarrassed, you know. I mean, thank God, you, you're here. Yeah, so, but yeah, I think, there's definitely still scams going on. There's all kinds of scams going on.

They're, they're, they're, they're a constant, it's a constant evolution. Wow. So, you know, I'll never go hungry, but I don't have to worry about that. I don't know. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. Listen, every time something happens and, uh, uh, my wife will, will be like,

I don't know, you know, that, wow, is it that much? Or what I'm like, listen, I'm like, worst. it happens there's always fraud she's like no no i'm like listen i'm just saying we're going to be okay she no stop yeah but it's just i'm telling you man it's just the shift it's like you know it's it's that little micro second between winning the marathon and losing the marathon that like you just shift that and you have shifted that you've shifted that into public speaking where you get you know tens of thousands of dollars for giving a given a talk right or I'm going, I'm going to Vegas to talk to a guy, a white collar guy who just got sentenced to like three or four years in prison.

And I'm flying in to spend about an hour with him to explain to let him know what to expect when he gets there. That's it. They're flying me in, put me in a hotel, paying me. Like, that's the thing. Like, it's so cool. But yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, I'm making it trying to, you know, trying to turn around, make it work for me. for jane i think you're doing a great job man i think you're doing a great job and i think there's a lot of lessons to be learned from your experience and while yeah you know you didn't do the greatest

stuff in the world you paid your debt and you're out now and you're telling the story and you're doing good stuff so i think that's that's all that matters man do you have any social media that you want me to yeah links yeah so great so if people want to apparently you've got a book there's a book yeah so if if people want to check out the book uh it is billion how i became king of the throw pill cult check that out anybody wants to reach out to me i do this on every show people think i'm nuts i've been on shows with millions of viewers my direct email i will give people is dark zess at gmail dot com that's d a r k zes at gmail dot com anybody that's interested in getting involved in amazon mastery the course that i teach on amazon i'll do that

for all listeners of Matthew's show for free so you don't have to do crime i'll give you the course for free it's a one-hour course teaches you everything you need to know about amazon reach out to me email we'll include the link below i'm sure matthew will include the link below it's dark zes at gmail com d-a-rk z s at gmail dot com make sure you mention matthew's show so i know you heard on here if you like this podcast or interest in being another podcast check out our agency uh podcast cola we are the podcast booking agency in the country and we get people just like you booked on these and other great shows and yeah in a nutshell in the book billion how i became king of the throw pill cult will become a movie soon but if you want to check out the audiobook please do so

check out the book or the audio book on audible or amazon all right hold on one second give me one second hey i appreciate you guys watching do me a favor if you like the video please share it please subscribe to the channel please hit the bell also leave me a comment We're going to leave all of the links in the description box, so you can go straight to Amazon and buy the book and go to the website and all the other stuff. So I really appreciate you watching. Thank you very much. Please consider joining my Patreon. Please consider joining my Patreon.

See ya.