Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How I Robbed 7 Stores In 1 Night

Episode Date: August 16, 2026

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I'm itching to commit a robbery. You've never committed a robbery before? Never committed a robbery before. Got arrested for committing seven armed robberies in one night. That took a sharp turn. Yeah. So I was born in a white picket fence, you know, like wasn't supposed to be on this podcast type of thing. You know, like I was, I, everything was supposed to just be normal, regular.

Right. And then finally, at the age of 16 and a half, I made. The worst, it was a small decision. And I always tell people today to like the small decisions are everything, I made one really bad small decision that ruined my life for the next 10, 15 years ahead. Okay. After a football game, Friday night, I went out, me and some friends. And we went to drink for the first time.

It was like in a very strict household. My mom was very serious. My coaches, everything was, you know, football. But I didn't want to be left out. Some friends asked me, you know, Sean, let's go out and drink. And I went out and I drank, smoked a cigarette for the first time. And instantly, just like that, I didn't realize it. But my love of football was on the back burner.

And my new love would be this drug-filled party lifestyle. And it all happened like one after the next, like a domino effect. So after every Friday night, after my football games, we're going out, we're drinking, we're partying. Friday night, turn in Saturday night, drinking and partying, and then it turned into trying other things. A year into this lifestyle from age 16 and a half to 17 and a half, going into my senior year of high school, I'm a full-blown drug addict. I'm waking up. The second I wake up in the morning, until I go to sleep at night, I'm on some type of substance. And it got to a point where I'm doing painkillers, trying everything. I tried pretty much everything that you can imagine up into that

point, but it was mostly just the in the alcohol. So now going into my senior year, my coaches told me, they said, Sean, like, they knew what was going out with me. They knew that, and, you know, I'm the quarterback. I forgot to mention, too, I was the starting quarterback of the team. I was the start of the team. I was the, you know, the dream of going to college and then I fell. So they're paying attention to you and and and let's face it the other team members are probably saying look you this is a problem you know somebody's probably the people probably tipping them off like exactly people don't think that they think oh yeah I'm good you're not good throw other people are going to see it and they're going to say something exactly and then they just kind of get a feeling even if there's

nothing you just have intuition with people you know they know something's wrong yep my coaches they could they could smell it my mom you know she was my biggest coach you know she could smell it. She could see it in my eyes. She saw something was off. The only problem was I was still performing well. Right. So it was allowing me almost for the coaches to like brush it to the side. Okay, as long as he's throwing touchdown passes, it's fine. Let's, you know, if we're winning and we're doing well, it's okay. So, but they would tell, they told me my head coach going into my senior year in the summer, he said to me, Sean, they do random drug tests over here. We had a Catholic private school, it's real serious, just stop. Just stop doing it. Worry about the season, stay straight.

So I took that serious. And I'm a very spiritual person today. That was like my first spiritual moment, the summer going to my senior year, where the first time ever I prayed to God. And I say, God, please give me a good football season. I'm going to quit the drugs, cold turkey, everything that I'm on. And just like that, I quit the drugs. And the first three, games of the season. I don't know if you know, familiar with football stats. I had like 11 touchdown passes and like 1100 passing yards in my my first three games. So I'm impressed, but that doesn't mean anything. I don't know anything. But, yeah. So, so for it in, in high school, it's a lot. It's like, so you're averaging around three, three touchdowns a game. So it's a lot of passing

yards. Right. And now scouts are coming to look at me. You know, this is, I'm, I'm living my dream right here, I'm seeing, wow, like if I keep going this way, I'm going to college for sure to Division 1, for sure. And it's also a spiritual aspect. It's like, wow, God is answering my prayers. And, you know, I'm playing well.

Going into my, we played Friday nights. Thursday night, of the third week that we had the game, a friend comes up to me and he says to me, Sean, let's go out and smoke some time. And I didn't realize,

how bad my addiction was at the time. I didn't think about random drug tests. What are the odds of a test coming? I went out, I smoked some with him. Following morning, Friday, I'm sitting in class. I get called up for a random drug test. They called me into the office. I had to pee in the cup.

It would have to go to a lab. So the following week, I wouldn't find out until if it's positive or negative. I was the only person who knew it was going to come up positive for a week. So I went out that night, Friday night. onto the football field, I literally threw an interception, first play the game, because my mind was so messed up. I knew that I was going to fail the drug test.

After the game, my coach came up to me, and he said to me, Sean, like, are you on drugs? Are you higher something? Something was off with me, and I told him, coach, I got drug testing. And he knew exactly what that meant. Oh, he did this. This is an issue. It's an issue. And following week, Monday came around, don't hear anything about the test.

Tuesday comes around, nothing again. And then at night, at practice, I get called into an office. You have the dean, the coach, and the principal of the school is over there. And they said to me, Sean, you know, we don't care that you're the starting quarterback to start this team. You felt your drug test came back positive. You kicked out the team. Your career here is over. And if you can imagine the devastation.

One test, like they don't even give a chance to straighten up? No. They were serious over there. Zero. Was it? Zero. Zero tolerance policy. And they didn't care.

And obviously it was my fault. But the devastation that you can imagine from that was intense. Because it was my dream. It wasn't only just my dream. It was my mom, my parents, my brother. Everybody was seeing like, wow, he's going to do this for our family. And it was a devastation to my teammates, to my coaches, to the community. because football is a big deal in Las Vegas,

it was heartbreaking. And knowing what I know now today as an adult, I understand, okay, if you fall down, you can always get back up, you make mistakes, always can get back up. There's always a second chance. As a 17-and-a-half-year-old kid, I didn't realize that. So I decided to become like the devil almost,

like the worst person that you could possibly imagine. I dropped out of school a week after that. I said, I'm going to become a full-time, criminal, a full-time drug addict. I'm now for the next two years of my life on like five different drugs every single day. All these painkillers and anxiety, painkillers that you could think of, alcohol, drinking every single day. And on top of that, because I felt like my life was over and I didn't even want to have

a life anymore, I started stealing every single day, like petty theft. But every single day for the next two years. would be from people in their locker rooms or phones or whatever it is, I'm stealing. I'm just like all day, every day drugs and stealing until I got to a point. What is your, what's your mom and dad saying? So at this point, my dad wasn't really in the picture. At this point, he's kind of gone. He was kind of gone since the divorce.

Right. He never really got back into my life like that until much. later until I went to prison eventually. But my mom, she couldn't, she tried everything. She couldn't stop me. She tried to put me in rehab, wouldn't listen. She tried to get ex-coaches or rabbis to come, try to talk to me and get me straight. Nothing worked. Nothing at all worked. And, you know, she's just like a, like a woman, like a Jewish mom. Like she couldn't, she wasn't strong enough to like she tried to take me to even one of those scared straight things or they put you in handcuffs in front of like a courtroom and I remember when I

walked out I was like mom I'm not a criminal what are we doing here and it's you know it's it's funny eventually went away but yeah she tried everything my mom tried everything so so in this two-year stint like what does a normal day look like you're still are you still living with your mom you wake up you go hang out with your friends and then you go like when you say you're robbing, stealing, like, what are you doing? Go to convenience store, kind of like take us through a day or like a lick. Okay, so let me go back. In the beginning, there wasn't any like robberies or burglaries or anything like that.

It was just like living a life where I'm just looking for phones and money all day and doing drugs. Why phones? How much do you get for a phone? So back then, this was 10, 15 years ago. What I would do is you would get a phone. phone and you would put it on Craigslist like the and would sell like that day or like a few hundred dollars okay and if you get a few of those a day you know it's like iPhones iPhones yeah like where do you find a phone like anywhere like um so I would find phones at like locker rooms

at the gym or something like that or in the supermarket anywhere anywhere that I could possibly find a phone um I also went to it isn't we phones people they're not walking around leaving their phones You know, like, is this, like, how are you doing? I know they steal them in the gyms, like in the gym, locker rooms. It was mostly basketball gyms. People leave them on the bleachers. Yeah, I have some friends get their phones still. Yeah, so literally people would turn their heads and I would snatch a phone.

Like in the locker room, especially, so when I was like 18, I went to Boise State. I went to, I tried to like get my life together at some point. Right. Still heavily into the drugs, but my mom told me, like, you. You got to get your stuff together. You know, one thing I've been good at is putting off doctors appointments. You tell yourself you're going to do it tomorrow, and then tomorrow turns into next week. And when you finally make that phone call, they tell you you can't get an appointment for three months.

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Find and book the right doctor with Zoc Doc. Head to Zocdoch.com slash ITC to get started and check that appointment off your list today. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash ITC. So I went to Boise State, and that's where, like, most of the stealing came from. I was, like, stealing every single day in the locker rooms and in the gyms, from the dorms, just a straight menace. And a lot of that life, because I'm on so many drugs, like, every single day, it's, like, a lot of it's a big blur in that time.

So then eventually, after spending about a year in Idaho at Boise State, I went back to Las Vegas. Always trying to get my life together, but I couldn't really figure out. I would get like a pizza delivery job or something like that. And I just couldn't really figure it out. So I would go back to the drugs and to the stealing or drug dealing, whatever it was. So you're selling drugs. Selling drugs. And I was dealing specifically with a blood gang member.

Okay. In Las Vegas. And he had an idea. So I put up the money for an amount of wheat. I don't remember what it was. And is it like $500 or something? No, no, no. Yeah.

A thousand or like a thousand or something like that. And he told me to give him half of it. It was all my money. Right. I'll take the other half. He's going to go sell his half and bring it back to me, the money back to me. but I knew it was BS. I knew it was nonsense.

He was going to take some of it out. He was going to suck. Even if it was a little bit, he was going to cheat me out of it. I knew that. So what did I do? It wasn't the right thing to do, but it was the only option I thought at the time. I picked him up and I said, we're going to go drive and sell this to this lady, the whole thing. When we get there, I need you to hop out, right?

So it's just me, she knows. So he hopped out and I left him there, just like that. and I didn't see him. I didn't, and I left, I went back to my side of town. He went back to his side of town. But you did pay for the all the week. So it's not like you ripped him off. Exactly.

I mean, you did, but you did sort of, but you didn't live up to your agreement, but you didn't outright rob him. Exactly, no. It's not like he lost 500 bucks. No, but he, he didn't, it probably wasn't the best way for me to do it. Right. It was the only way at the time that I felt like I'm going to get my full amount back. So I'm 20 years old and I'm selling drugs at this point.

And I got robbed at gunpoint. Somebody robbed me. Where are you selling drugs? Just to friends and stuff? So yeah, to friends. Anybody in Las Vegas? Are you standing on the corner somewhere? No, so anybody in Vegas like friends or anything like that or people that I know.

Everybody should just know. Yeah, word of mouth. Call Sean. He's probably got something. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And one night, I'm selling right out of my grandmother's garage. Somebody comes to the house to pick up,

and his buddy comes around the corner and points a gun right into my face. It was like a setup. I ran into the house. I was more worried about the drugs than getting shot. I ran into the house, and he's banging on my door, the guy who came to pick up, and then he eventually just left because I just left. because I just locked the door.

And like any normal person at the time, you know, I'm going to stop living this life. I went out and I got my own protection. I went out and got my own gun. So it was strictly just for protection at this time. But then eventually, August 25th, 2015, that's when I got arrested for committing seven armed robberies in one night. Well, that took a sharp turn.

Yeah. Okay. That's not protection, by the way. Yeah, definitely not protection. I was, it got to a point where, and I'll give you some background on it. Like I said, I had this gun for protection. I'm selling drugs. I'm just, just don't, I don't even care about life. Which is an enhancement, by the way. Yeah, exactly, 924C. And I just, it got to a point in my life where, and I want to back up to when I was playing football, I was a good kid.

come from a good family. Right. The crimes that I was like committing, this criminal lifestyle was all because I was like, I didn't really want to live anymore at this point. It was just complete destruction. Sometimes you get to a point in your life where all you want to do is be destructive to yourself

and unfortunately to people around you. And that's the, that became my life. So when I got around, arrested for those seven armed robberies. I was out with some friends that night. We're at like a park. Everybody went home like two in the morning. We were drinking and smoking at the park. I don't know how to stop. That was always my problem. I can't stop when it came to drugs or alcohol. Everybody went home, two, three in the morning. And I'm sitting there. And I don't know where this feeling came from. I'm itching to commit a

robbery. You've never committed a robbery before? Never committed a robbery before. Okay. I'm itching because my one thing led to the next. It started so small from weed and alcohol to stealing to a gun. It was just, it was going to go until who knows where it's going to go. And I was itching to commit this crime.

So I had a gun on me and it's just so happened. Somebody left a ski mask in my car. It wasn't even my ski mask. I can't even tell you how many times my friends. Like, bro, you left your ski mask in the car again. Who are you hanging out with that only has a ski mask? Sketchy people. Yeah.

Jimmy, is this yours or is it Todd? Like, what? How many people have a ski mask? Yeah. So somebody, he left it. So I had it in the car. And I went to my first convenience store. I went into the store.

And I took my gun out, put the ski mask on. went in the store. I'm high out of my mind. And I think I told them, you know, give me the effing money. Whatever it is. Where's the safe? Give me the effing money. I hate losing my wallet. You check your pockets, the car, the counter, and for about five minutes, you're in full panic mode, wondering where it went. That's one of the reasons I like the Ridge wallet. Ridge makes sleek, durable wallets that keep everything tight and organized. No more bulky wallets, stuffed with receipts and junk you never use. And now they've got something really smart. They brought back their legendary sweepstakes, and Tony Hawks is their official spokesperson. Two winners get to choose between a Lamborghini,

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That's ridge.com and use promo code Cox, C-O-X. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them Inside True Crime sent you. I didn't even know what I was doing, right? Right. It was such a small amount of money that I took and I was looking for a safe. I didn't even know what I was doing, like I said. How much was it?

It was like less than a thousand bucks for the whole night. Right. So I went in there. I took the money from the register. And then after that, I got back into my car. I popped some more pills and I went on to another one. What was the reaction of the cashier? Are they fighting back?

You're going to, this is going to be funny, but I got to tell the truth. Right. None of them were afraid. Right. I'm not like, I guess I'm not a scary guy. I'm not the normal criminal. And even after I got arrested, my lawyer hired a private investigator to interview each and every one of them.

And to ask them, are they scared? Do they need therapy? Not one of them were scared. They felt bad for what I was going through. And so they weren't they weren't nervous I mean maybe they were I was high But from what I saw

They weren't afraid And so I went from That one and I did six more after that How much money did you get from the first one? Yeah the first one how much was like 20 bucks No the first one was like a hundred bucks maybe Something like that the first one was a hundred The next one the same thing

It came out to a total of like less than a thousand bucks And is there a game plan or yours, okay, I'm driving and where's the next convenience store? Oh, there's a 7-11. It was really like a rush at this point. So after the first one, the rush that came, I'm not proud of it, but the rush that came from it was like, whoa, I have to keep going.

And I kept going and kept going. And you're driving your car. And I'm driving my car. And even at one point, I'm driving one way after the like third or fourth robbery. Two or three cop cars with their lights are driving the other way back to where I just robbed the gas station from. And so I just went on to do seven of these total.

And do you, I'm sorry I keep asking. Like I kind of, this is, since this is kind of the main crime piece, like when you walk in, like, what are you walking around? Are you scanning the place? Or you're just walking straight in. Hey, give me the money in the bag. Like, and are they all the exact same? Are they all different? Yeah.

What are like? Because the normal average truck driver, drywaller has never robbed. Yeah. convenience store you know what's it what's it look like in the gas station what's it what do you do like what are you thinking right what like like are you are you are you pulling up you know i'm making sure my car's not on a camera i'm walking a block yeah or or i parking way over here because i don't think there's a camera i walk in do i do i make sure there nobody's in the fucking store yeah do i open it up and you know scream you know get on the fucking ground you know do i

am i trying are you trying to be menacing are you so are you walking in casually like hey uh can i get I got a gun. Yeah. Can I get some money? So the first, I think the first one, I parked in the back. Okay. Parted in the back of the gas station. Right.

Like by the dumpster or something like that. And I went in like real secretive. And I told him, give me the effing money from the safe. And I said that the same thing on each single, each one. But after like the first two or something like that, I'm on, I'm high out of my mind. Like on my whole concoction of drugs. after the first like couple of them I'm not even parking in the back

I was just like going out right to the front putting the ski mask on going on going in giving me that for money are these like 7-11? 7-11s yeah community stores I understand but I mean are they all the same

or are they are they shitty like are they wawas or are people other people in the so they're a wah-wahs yeah yeah okay yeah like they're big you know you can go in like the hood and you get this shitty little convenience So it's fine.

There was, so this was in Vegas, like in the suburb areas. Right. The night before, like, high school and college started, there wasn't a single person in any of those gas stations. Okay. Also in the middle of the night. Middle of the night, like three in the morning. Yeah. There wasn't a single person.

Do any of these cashiers give you any pushback? Like, eh, or are they all just immediately like, here, here you go. Yeah. So they didn't give me any pushback. I also know there's no money. Exactly. You know, because they get to, like, 100. or $200.

They put it in that, they slide in the safe thing. Lockbox. They can't get to it. Exactly. Yep. How long does it take to do six? Was it six or seven? It was seven.

How long does it take? That took like two or three hours. Right. Two or three hours. And then after the last one, I don't know what made me stop. But I stopped because like I said, it was like a thrill. I drove home. I started driving home.

And five minutes into driving home. home, I get, somebody starts telling me. And I'm high out of my mind. I'm like, what the heck is this? I don't know what it is. And then I realized it was a cop. And he starts following me for like five minutes. And like I said, I'm so high out of my mind. I'm like, I forgot almost like what I just did. I'm like, is it my taillight or my speed? I don't even know what's going on. So after five minutes, they pull me over with like five cop cars, sirens on everything. And, and And they yell out on the microphone, throw the keys out of the ignition, get the F out of the car.

And, yeah, like crazy, a whole thing. I take that very seriously. Yeah. They got no sense of humor about that. Yeah, they were, they were. And it took me out of the car, handcuffed me, put me in the back of the car. You still have the gun in the car? So the gun.

So the gun. Mass gun, the whole thing. Everything I put it underneath my seat. Oh, it's a great space. That's a great height. So I'm trying to see. It's really stupid, this whole thing. Like, just being so high, I'm thinking, okay, let me put it underneath the seat.

This is how messed up I was. They're not going to sit. So they take me, they put me in the back of the car. And I was 20 years old at the time, drove me off to the jail to get booked and fingerprinted. And, you know, when I finally got there, they put me in the holding cell. I'm not going to lie. I'm just a kid. I was terrified.

And I'm sitting in there. You know, I see real criminals. See, you know, it smells bad in the holding tank. And I'm, you know, I'm thinking of myself because I'm sobering up now. Right. They're sitting in there for 12 hours, whatever it is. I sober up, not just from a night's worth of drugs. For the past four years, I'm on drugs every single day.

When I sober up, I'm looking at my charges, eight armed robberies, eight burglaries. I'm like, what the heck? and you know guys eight so they threw out the last one okay because I thought I was black I was so dark in Vegas in the summer yes so they threw out the they put another one on you for some black guy that it's wrong yeah okay so so sitting in the holding tank looking at my charges and you know people I'm you know you talk in there about your charges and they're looking at Like, holy crap. Yeah, what are you here for?

Exactly. Drunk and disorderly, what are you here for? I, yeah, ran a stoplight or what do you hear? A suspended license. What are you here for eight armed robberies? Oh, shit. Yeah, like, I'm thinking like the Las Vegas jails are probably filled with tourists, drunk idiots. Yeah, it is, right?

It's like, remember Wade was sitting there and all these, he's in the cells with all these guys. He's like, they're all there for, like, fucking drunk. or fighting in a bar, you know, they, you know, whatever, you know, domestic violence or just domestic whatever. And then one guy sits next to him and he says, what are you here for? And he's like, murder. The guy goes and gets up and walks in the other side of the fucking cell and sits down on the other side of the cell.

He's like. Yeah. And they, it's funny because that's pretty much what happened. They put me in the low security. Right. Because they realize I wasn't gang affiliated or anything like that. So they put me in the low security where all those. disorderly, drunken disorderly, suspended license.

And I'm telling guys, you know, my charges, and they're like, man, you're not getting out of here. Yeah. Forget about bail. You're done. So I'm looking, I'm thinking, I'm about to do 30, 40 years in prison. That's what I'm thinking in my mind. Right.

Thank God nobody got injured. I didn't get injured. But still, it was dangerous. What happened? You know, I'm devastated at this point of what's going on. A couple interesting things happen in there. So after 12 hours of sitting in this holding tank, they take me to a pod, to a dorm, like a low security dorm.

In the dorm, you have a window, and you see the other pod who's in that window, and they're like at rec time with the gym. And when it's our time, we would go, we would be there and they would be in there. Is this one of them where there's the main control center and there's multiple pods with windows? So you had one pod, then a window. Okay. And in that window was the wreck. And then their pod was next door.

So they would see us in their window, if that makes sense. Yeah. So technically you're in two different pods. Yeah, exactly. Two different pods. We're here. He's on the next one and you can see each other through the window when one's at rec. Okay.

So I get in, I'm in the pod. I'm just hanging out over there. And I see him in the window. You see who? I see the blood gang member, that same blood gang member that I left in the street in the window. Okay. And I forgot about what happened. It's like two years ago.

So he's in the window, but he's not in the pod you're going. He's not in the pod that I'm going to. He's just across the pod. He's across the pod. Right. And I look at him and I went to go say what's up. And I realized he's not saying what's up back to me. And then my memory came back from like, oh, crap, this is the guy that I ripped, I guess, ripped up.

So he's still, he's still. He still heeded about that. He still holding resentment. Exactly. He needs to let that go. Exactly. Let that go. And so he calls some of his boys over to the, there's a door right there.

You can't, they can't physically be in contact, but he whispered to him something. I walked back to my bunk. Five minutes later, I'm surrounded by five blood gang members. And they said to me, not the leader. There was a leader, but there was the younger guys who was like, you're going to fight me. me and then you're going to fight him and him and him just like that like right then and there yeah that seems fair and i said and i and i don't know how i talked myself out of this but i said well like and i spoke to the uh the leader and i told him how you know your boy tried to rip me off

first and i didn't do the maybe i did the wrong thing too by ripping him off afterwards but he ripped me off first and the guy listened to me and they left me alone they were still like i was in jail for two and a half weeks after that until they let me out on bail. I could explain more about that. Yeah. But they were still coming. They were kind of. I was like sleeping with one eye open.

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That's ghostbed.com slash Cox, promo code Cox. Upgrade your sleep with Ghostbed. makers of the coolest bed in the world. Some exclusions apply. See sight for details. I saw they were all looking at me from wherever I was at. And I'm by myself. I wasn't, even at the time, I didn't understand the whole politics about whites, blacks and Mexicans. Some whites came up to me and were like, hey, we can have your back if you want. And I was like, no, I'm cool. I wasn't sure about anything what's going on. Like, who's trying to have my back? So, but nothing happened to me while I was there. Two and a half weeks later, I had a bail here. Right.

So if you're a Jewish guy, who are you aligning with? With the whites. Okay. Just making sure. I was going to say, I would think it would be the white guy. Yeah. No, no, I'm good. Yeah.

Then who are you hanging out with? And in general, who do you kind of hang out with in general in there? The white guys or? Nobody. Nobody. Yeah. My whole time in prison, I was like a long wolf. I hung out when I needed a hang out.

Yeah. That was it. So two and a half weeks later, I have my bail hearing. And like I said, it's eight armed robberies, eight burglaries. You're not getting out for bail, no freaking way. It's interesting. Talk about spirituality. It's a big part of my story.

Some guy randomly came up to me. He didn't know me. I didn't know him. Right before my bail hearing, he said, he didn't know about my, nothing about me. He said, I could tell you're going through a tough time. right now, you're about to go home soon, right? I was like, whatever. So the next day or whatever it was, I went to my bail hearing.

The judge took a look at me, and he's like, no freaking way this kid just did all these robberies. No way. And he said, we're accepting his bail, the terms of bail. What was it? I would have to be on an ankle monitor, and I would have to go to rehab for 30 days, in-house rehab for, inpatient rehab for 30 days, and then six months. outpatient. And from what I hear, and we're in the state at this time, this is a state case.

And from what I hear, when you go to rehab while you're fighting a case, that's like good enough to get probation, right? That's what everybody was telling me. Yeah. If you pass the rehab, then they feel like, okay, this was an isolated event. He's never been in trouble before. Exactly. God knows what was going on. But exactly. There's a way to divert this from him becoming a full blown. It's a way to, they're trying to divert you from becoming a part of the system, which is very difficult to break out of that system once you're in it. Exactly. And they saw that. You know, they saw I was just like a trouble kid. So I got out. I had a really good attorney too. My grandmother put up like $100,000

for a lawyer. She put up her house for surety. And they put up, they, they, they, probably, my grandson, you're getting a public defender. Yeah, they loved that. They really, they, they, they, and she's not, My grandmother grew up in, she was from Hungary and then New York, came from the Holocaust. They're not thinking about, you know, raising criminal grandkids or kids, anything like that. So it was against her nature, but she. I was going to say, it's funny in the Jewish community. Like, it's such a horrific thing. Like, in the black community, right?

Like, they've all got somebody. Like, in pretty much any family out there right now, they're like, oh, yeah, my cousin's in prison right now. My uncle's doing life. Yeah. I got to say, like, they'll name five. They've all been to prison, like to visit people and stuff. They're like, yeah, my, you know, my, yeah, exactly. My brother calls every Tuesday to talk to my mom.

He's doing 10 years. Yeah. But it's, like, if you're from a middle class, let's say, white family, like, they shun you. Exactly. They're like, oh, he's done. We're done with that guy. And I would think it would be the exact same thing in the Jewish community. Be like, oh, no, no, no, you're done.

Especially armed robbery. Yeah. It wasn't like a final. Not like it's fraud. It's like fraud. It's barely even a crime. Yeah. Same thing with I think, I feel like the same thing with kind of Spanish, right?

Like you, like I feel like those that they're not, it's not as ingrained in the culture as. Because you understand, here's the interesting thing about the blacks in general if they go to prison. They'll support each other. It's like, are you serious? Yeah. Like they'll call home and be like, somebody needs to put some money on my books. And they'll call the somebody in the family will, if they don't have. have it, they'll make five phone calls and somebody will be like, fuck.

So I'll put a hundred bucks on the fuck on his books. Like they'll find someone that they, and they, the baby mama's drag the kids to the prison to see their father, even if the father was horrible and never paid child support didn't pay for his kids, nothing. They'll drag them there. Like it's just a part of, of supporting them. If you're white, like, and you call, if I called up and said, hey, can you. you send me some of my name back?

You know out of your fucking mind? Sending you any money? You're in prison. I used to ask my mom to mail me books. I'm asking her, can you send me? There's a new John Grisham book that's out. It just became paperback because you couldn't get hard copies. Can you order it for me?

My sister would then go and tell my mom, mom, they've got a library. That book's in the library. You don't have to buy that book and send it to them. What are you talking about? You don't know anything. Sorry. It is going to be in the library when mom sends it. Then I'll read it and I'll stick it in the library.

She thinks they're trying to rehabilitate you. Kill me. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, yeah, it was against everybody in my family's nature and understanding. You know? But your grandmother, she's a gangster, bro. She's a straight gangster.

I mean, she's got a whole story herself, you know, coming from, I think her coming from a tough upbringing with the Holocaust and everything like that, she understands, like, you know, struggle. Right. And she's also was a hypnotherapist. So she dealt with a lot of drug addicts and stuff like that in her life. So she kind of understood. So, yeah, she put up her house for a surety.

and I think it was like a $20,000 bond. Right. Something like that. So I got out. I was on an ankle monitor. I went to rehab, state case, thinking, all I got to do is pass is 30 days of rehab and I'm good. I'm not going to prison.

No way. Right. After 30 days, I'm happy as hell. I've passed clean, sober. My mom picks me up. My mom's a very energetic woman. And this day, she was like down. Like something was off.

And she said to me, Sean, I asked her what was wrong. And she was like, Sean, you, you know, I just spoke with your new lawyers. Your case went federal. And that means that you're for sure going to be doing time in prison, at least seven years. Because of the 924C. Yeah. Yeah. Brandishing a weapon.

And it was a Hobbs act. They had like a bunch of Hobbs act they had against me. That's why I went federal. Yeah. So it was also the Hobbs Act when made it go federal affecting interstate commerce. These gas stations or convenience stores were like federal or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, if it's a 7-Eleven, they've got 7-Elevens in 14 other states.

Exactly. It's a it's a race track. Well, race tracks a national chain. So you're affecting you're affecting all of them. That $100 may have thrown all of them in. to bankruptcy. Exactly. So, yeah.

That's literally, I mean, that's literally how that's the connection. It's like, you're hitting a national company. Yeah. Even though you're like, no,

I robbed one store. Exactly. No, no, but it affected all of the stores. And it also, because they're in multiple states, even though it didn't affect anything,

but that's what they say. It affected all of them. As a result of that, it makes it federal. Exactly. And they don't have to. It doesn't have to, but they can choose.

So if, so if it was just mom and pops, you'd have probably done 30-day rehab. rehab, have probation, and done. For sure. What? Do you know why they would pick this case specifically? Oh, let's make this federal.

Like, how does that happen? From what I heard, you always hear stuff. Yeah, yeah. What I heard is that at the time, the state in Las Vegas was giving all gun charges to the feds. Oh, okay. So this is a question that people were always, throughout the whole time I was in prison,

people are always asking, Why is this federal? I didn't understand the federal. There was a lot of gun charges too. Young kids, like 19, 20 years old, when I was sitting in the, when I eventually went to the federal jail, you see these young kids with just regular gun charges sitting in the feds. And it was confusing to everybody. But this is what the thing was, what we heard.

So I completed the rehab. And I'm told you're going to do somewhere between now, seven and 13 years in prison and I was just like I was on a high from completing the rehab thinking I'm good to go I'm just going to be on probation

to I got to get ready to spend the next seven whatever years in prison I was broken it's completely broken but I didn't I didn't give up actually

from the days of football and having like a chip on my shoulder. I took, like, strength in that moment, even though, like, I was weak, but I had a lot of strength to where I prepared myself for prison. I started boxing every single day because I think, I'm thinking I'm going to be fighting for my life while I was in prison. And I know exactly.

I just got prepared. I felt the same way, like, bro. And people are telling you, it's fun, this is the funny thing, too. People tell you watch the prison shows. Right? It's going to give you the exact, you know, idea. I watched Oz. Oh, that's the worst.

What do you do? The first episode, the guy, whatever happens over there. Yeah, he gets assaulted. Let's say. Yeah, yeah, essay. S-Aid. S-Aid. And that's when I started boxing after that.

And I'm like, I'm like, and everybody's telling me, and people who never even been to prison, but you take everything in, you're absorbing. Oh, you're going to get assaulted. You're going to get this. You're going to fight. My uncle with the prison. I know everything. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. And I remember I got, you have to get like booked. So once it became a federal case, I had to get booked just quickly in the feds. And then they send you back home to be on house arrest. And I think I even asked the officer there, does, you know, does essay happen in prison? He's like, all the time, all the time. And I'm fucking jerk off. I'm like, he must have you walked out of you.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I'll go back. I'm like, oh, no. And, and, but, you know, I was boxing every single day. I was doing whatever I could. Eventually, my mom, she said to me, Sean, you know, you're going to prison for sure. Enough with that. Does she have to keep rubbing in your face?

Like, all right, I understand. Because I kept prolonging it. Right. It was nine months. I'm already on house arrest. I could be doing my time, even though, as you know, I wasn't sentenced. She's saying, get it over. So go in, start the time, even though you're not sentenced yet.

So I listened to her. She told me this on like a Thursday. I turned myself in on Tuesday. I was not ready at all. I went to Perrump in Nevada. It's like an hour outside of Las Vegas to the jail. They bring you on a van, put you in a van with like a few other guys who are cuffed and shackled. I don't know who the heck these guys are.

I go to the jail and prompt. You know, they book you, they fingerprint you, talk to psychologists, whatever, blah, blah, blah. I finally go to my pot. It's a dorm because it's an armed robbery, and I'm 21 years old, I'm either going to the pen, to the U.S. penitentiary or to a medium. But I was in like a medium to high. So the, not dorms, it's the cells. So I send me to the cells. I go into there, to there, the first time to the cells,

everybody's locked in at the time. You walk in there, and you know how it is. They see the new guys, the new people who come in. They're banging on the door. And I'm like, put them in here. Fresh meat. Fresh meat. And I'm like, what's the heck?

For a few years. Yeah. You're like, you're like, stop it, bro. I've been locked up before. Yeah. Oh, hey, what's going on? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm like, what the heck is.

going on. All you hear is banging. You don't see faces just banging on every single. They put me in a cell by myself. That was like a godsend, right? I'm in a cell by myself. When I got out, after they counted, somebody came up to me and I don't care what anybody says. I was nervous as hell, right? They asked me, a white guy comes up to me and he says, are you with the whites? And I was already kind of trained before going into jail. Some people, you got to be with somebody. You got to be with somebody. So I'm like, I guess so, right? And he's like, all right, so I'm going to show you where we sit and everything like that. And they take me to the table. I'm sitting with some white Russian guy over there. Everybody looks scary at first. And then eventually it's like, you realize

it's just like a bunch of guys. Exactly. And, you know, it's, it's, uh, so it was like 10 to 15 white guys there at the time. And, you know, after a few days, I start to realize, like you said, It's just regular guys. Right. Whatever happened in their life, they're there. Obviously, they're dangerous. You know, you got to be serious. It's prison.

There's rules. There's politics. You have to be serious. But they took a liking to me. And they thought it was funny that I was Jewish. I was going to say, what, what you're thinking about you? You know how many times I'm with all these Aryan brother white supremacists? And here's a Jewish kid over here.

It was funny. There were so many times I'd be sitting there talking to some guy. And I'm thinking, And this guy's got SSs on his, you know, he's got like multiple esstica. He's got, and I'm like, this is insane. Like, how's this guy going to get a job? I wish you could see that picture. I wish you could see the picture.

I'm sitting and doing burpees with a guy who has like swastika tattooed on him. Name's demon. I'm doing burpees with demon at 2 o'clock or whatever. And it's people get a kick out of that today when I tell him. But it's, it's, you know, they, they, they respected what I was and they respected that I wasn't trying to hide. Right. And they respected, you know, that I'm not a, wasn't a co-op. I didn't cooperate.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But so, uh, so I, so I'm in, I'm in the jail.

I get used to it. I get a routine, start working out like crazy from my football days. I wanted to start bringing that back and working out. doing burpees, getting into the prison routine. Guys are telling me how you're going to have to start moving. And I'm thinking the whole time that I'm going to go to the USP. Yeah. So I'm thinking it's going to be violent when I get over there.

You know a criminal history. I didn't have a criminal history. I was good. 50, 50 chance. So medium. Exactly. But a lot of guys there are like to dramatize things. Yeah.

And some of the guys that I was talking to, they're like, yeah, you're going to the USP. Yeah. With that. And I'm like, you know, I don't know. There's a chance. There's a chance, but it was never going to be. It was never going to be. I would definitely go to a medium, like you said, with the criminal history and everything.

But also, it's probably better for you to be concerned about it and know that it's a possibility that it's 100. Oh, 100% I'm going. And then suddenly you go to a USB. Oh, no, no, you're going to have to do two years here first. And then you'd be like, and it really could shift. You don't know what could happen. Like, you know. Totally.

It's like when they close, they start, because supposedly Trump wants to close like all the camps. That's what I heard too. Yeah. So if they close all the camps, the BOP is going to recourse, uh, re, um, rescore people. And it's going to shift more people into USPs upwards. Upwards. Um, but still, you know, so at least, because you just don't know what's going to happen.

You know, you don't know. And it could be something like you don't even see it. Like there could be a detainer from your state charges that you're like, okay, my state charges were dropped. They're like, yeah, for some reason there's still a detainer. So your score is a little hot. You're like, yeah, but that was dropped. They're like, yeah, but it's still on the record.

And you don't know. You're like, what the fuck? You know, now suddenly instead of being scored at, you know, whatever, 12, you're, you're at 22 or something. And guess what? Yeah, about a year, you'll leave. And like, I don't want to do a year in the fucking bin. Yeah. Speaking of the detainer, too, I know guys who are still spending way more years in prison

because the state case wasn't dropped or something like that. Yeah, you have to do a point or something. interstate. There's some kind of thing that you have to file. I filed one. I had a state detainer on me. And it was a two-page motion. And I wrote it.

And all it was saying was like, hey, come get me. Come get me. I want to fight this. And then they appointed me a lawyer. Lawyer went in front of the judge and said, this guy's doing, you know, fucking 26 years for all the judge. What are we doing here? You know what I'm saying? Like, we're going to bring him back for a probation violation.

And he was like, they would. So, judge goes, okay. okay, well, let's quash it. They quashed it. And literally all that happened. Like, I mailed it on like a Monday and like 10 days later. I get, I get, but this is what just happened. Bam, bam, bam, bam.

They dropped the whole thing. And detainers gone. Sheesh. But most people don't do it. A lot of people don't do it. And then they don't do it until they find out. They don't even know. Yeah.

They don't do it until they find out. It's there and they can't go to halfway house. And they're like, what do you mean? I can't go to halfway out. Yeah. So, anyway, sorry. What? What?

Yep. So, anyway, sorry. Go ahead. So you're there. You're hanging out with the arians. Hanging out with the areas. And yeah, they got a kick out of it that I was Jewish. But like I said, it was never an issue because I was being myself and they respected that.

I spent five months at this jail in pram until I was sentenced. I was sentenced like four months into that. And then you wait there for like a few weeks until you get shipped out. So when I finally got sentenced, I went in front of the judge. he gave me eight years in a day. I was happy with that. Obviously, I wish there was seven. He could have picked between seven and 13.

He picked eight. He said because the whole, our whole case was, oh, it was just a kid. He made a mistake. The judge looked at me as like, nobody just stumbles and starts armed robbery. Yeah, nobody makes a mistake seven times in a row. Exactly. Exactly. So he gave me eight years in a day, and the day helped me to get more halfway house or something.

something like that so well it knocks say it knocks uh it gives you the ability them the ability to give you good time for that last year exactly exactly and um so i went back to my uh to my cell after that and i just i prepared for for prison you know i that was one of the toughest days of my life i don't know how anybody else feels after being sentenced that was hard that was draining a bad day it was a bad day i hugged uh that was a last day i hugged my grandmother, the marshals let me hug my grandmother in court. And, you know, she was like 85 or something. Who knows if she's going to be alive still? Yeah. It's a thing that all inmates never know, but, you know, your family might pass while they're in. Yeah. Sad. So I went back. I got ready.

And this is when also at this time, I decided like, I want to, I don't want to be a criminal anymore. And I don't want to be a drug addict when I get out. Right. But how am I going to be a drug addict when I get out? Right. But how am I going to change? I'm surrounded by nothing but inmates and criminals. And as you know, too, 90% of the time, these guys don't want to change either. No, they're planning their next thing. They're planning their next thing.

They're planning in there, out there. It's crime everywhere you look. And I said to myself, I don't want to go down this road. I don't want to be this type of person. So what is that going to be for me? What am I going to have to do to change? And for me, that was to find God, spirituality, get closer to my roots, Judaism, whatever it was, for me, it was getting close to God.

And, you know, a couple funny things that happened over there, like with the Aryan brotherhood guys or the neo-Nazi, whatever it was, they all have swastika's tattooed here, there, all over the place. I don't know if you didn't know anything about like kosher and Judaism and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. So after Yong Kippur, this holiday we have Yom Kippur. I fasted 25 hours. And after the fast, I broke the fast with like a pork and cheese sandwich, something like that.

And I didn't even know what I was doing. But everybody knows your business over there. I know you're Jewish and they know you're just fasting. Now you're eating pork and cheese. Yeah. So this guy with a swastika comes up to me and like in a joking way, but it struck me. He looked me dead in my eyes. And he's like, I don't understand you Jews.

You just fasted and you prayed for 25 hours. Now you're eating pork and cheese. Yeah, exactly. You're a hypocrite. Right. And when he said that to me, it struck me. And I was like, whoa, like, I need to be who I was who I meant to be. And for me, that was to become more in tune with my Judaism and spirituality.

So I just hit the ground running after that. A couple weeks later, they sent me from that prompt jail to Victorville, the medium in Victorville. One of the most dangerous mediums in the country. when I got there like a week before that the warden just got stabbed or something like that I'm hearing about this

they had to shut off half the yard They had to shut off half the yard because somebody got killed or something I'm like and I'm just walking into this place right

and again I had to when I got there the guys really couldn't tell what I was Mexican what I was so when I got there some guys asked me are you Paisa

and I'm like no I went to the white guys and, you know, I let them know that, you know, I'm with the whites because, you know, you have to. And you have 30 days to show your paperwork. Right. You don't have to. You could get stabbed. You get stabbed. So I already, you know, I was code every along the way.

I wanted to make sure I do everything properly, you know. Right. So the white guys at the jail told me, you know, get your lawyer to make sure they send out your paperwork. So when I got to the prison in Victorville, I called my mom. I was like, mom, don't ask questions. Just please have the lawyer send my paperwork, just like that. And even SIS tells you like when you get there. Like don't have a sent in.

You're not going to be able to get it. You're not going to, we go through your stuff. You're not going to get your PSR. Exactly. But you can. Exactly. I've had a send in twice. The guys would show up, be like, yeah, man, I've been trying.

I'm thinking, stop it, right? Yeah. Like, I have my shit sent it twice. Yeah. Yep. And so they sent it in. I showed it. And I was good after that, right?

And, you know, for the next 10 months, I was in Victorville. Right. And it was easy. Very easy time for me. I stuck to myself. I didn't have any drama or anything like that. And I was learning a lot about Judaism. But there was, I got beat up in the medium.

Really? I got beat up. A discipline. I got a discipline. For what? So I was part of this. called the Brave program. It's still a program that they have today.

Okay. From Monday through Friday, 7.30 to 10.30 every single day, we go and we, you know, somebody comes in from the outside some lady to teach us about changing your attitude and your thoughts. So when you get out, you know, your actions change, right? Or actually, it was for prison because they realized this Brave program was 35 and under. They realized that in prison, all the young kids were the ones who were committed. the prison crimes, like stabbing and stuff in prison.

So they got all the, they would have these programs. There's like a couple in the country to like try to get these kids and they bring them from all over, Texas, New York, everywhere, to try to get us like our thoughts to change. It's like the R-Dap kind of. Yeah. So I was part of this program and everything was going well. I had a smooth time. I was practicing my Judaism, working out. Nobody bothered me anything like that.

I didn't bother anybody. And one day, the lady, we were told during programming hours, don't play cards, right? Guys don't listen. They play cards. She turned off all the TVs in the unit. You already know, don't touch the TVs. It's where like life or death over there, right? Yeah, that's what causes most of the fights.

Most fights. And that's why I stayed away. I barely watched TV in prison for that reason. So she turned off all the TVs. So all the guys got together. And they said the following morning, we're walking out of the program. The program.

We're boycotting this program. So the next day, I'm 21 years old. I don't know anything about prison, this, politics, that. Everybody walks out. Me and my cellmate were the only ones to stay inside. Okay. And they locked down the whole unit. They brought everybody back.

They locked us down for like a week. everybody got written up except for me and my cellmate. I'm thinking, okay, I'm good. Like, I dodged some trouble or whatever. They opened the doors. They wanted to beat us up, me and my cellmate, right? And I had to go in front. I talked to the white guys, to the shot caller.

And, you know, I got lucky. I got really lucky. They said to me, you know, we wanted to stomp you off the yard. When they stomp you off the yard, there's two guys come at you with boots and they, you know, they get you out of there. send you to the hospital half dead. And they said to me, you know, you're a prison rookie. We're going to give you a discipline. So I had to one day going to a cell in another unit.

I had to hold my hands up for 23 seconds because 23 representing W. White. That's their... That's their disciplines. How does 23 represent W white? 23rd letter in alphabet. Oh, okay. Okay.

Okay. Now it makes sense. Holy. Yeah. Now it makes sense. People always joke with me. I should have been with the blacks. It would have been two seconds for me.

So. You got hit twice. 23 seconds. Hold my hands up like this. Two guys put gloves on. They tell you right before. And these are your buddies. Like, I'm cool with everybody.

They're like, listen, just take it. If you try to fight back, we're going to beat the hell out of you. Just take it. It's going to be over. They put gloves on. Two guys. Boom. 23 seconds.

hit me in the stomach as hard as they can. After that, you know, you got respect, whatever, everything is good. And I'm like, yeah, you're good. Yeah, I'm not good after that. And I pretended like everything was okay because everything was good up into that point. I was almost like not spoiled in prison, but when you don't see any action coming at you because you don't, you're told when you get to prison, don't gamble, don't do drugs, Don't do anything stupid.

It's going to cause attention. So I'm thinking I'm smooth sailing my whole time. Right. Until that incident, and I'm like, whoa, like, this is a dangerous place. And the tension got loud. You know, it just, it changed my whole, the whole vibe. So at that time, I was also wanting to, this was also when I wanted, was wanting to change my life, become more Jewish, become more religious, become better.

And I felt like I was being pulled down. into that world, right? Because, you know, you get put in line up next for, you got to put in work, up next. So I was up next to put in work. So the next person who, who, yeah. So the next person who has to, who if a chomo comes to the yard, if whatever. And I don't want to do this. I don't, I'm not that type of person.

I'm trying to do my time and get out. But I know I have to if it would come to that. And I'm thinking in my head, I'm an overthinker. I'm thinking, what if me and the other guy, we go do that? And the other guy kills him. And now I'm in this mess too. I'm like, man, I got to get out of here. But I'm not going to go out in a bad way.

You know, like in a to be. How long have you been locked up? I was only locked up for 14 months at that time. I was going to say, can't you go to your fucking counselor? They're like, listen, you got to move me to a low. Yeah. So I didn't. So here's what happened.

These guys, when I'm talking about me beating somebody out. Yeah. I don't want to be anybody up. So I didn't want to be that guy to say anything to the cops or anything. And I, because I knew I would, like you said, I had all this time left, you know. But something interesting happened at this time. A couple things. The guy who called the hit on me for the DP, he got caught extorting another white guy.

he got smashed off the yard. So that took a lot of heat off of me, if that makes sense. Because he was the one pushing for you to be next. Exactly. He was from Vegas. I was with the Vegas. I don't like to say with. I just had to be, you know, like I was in the Vegas group.

Yeah. The car. The Vegas car. We know about cars. Colby knows about it. Yeah. And I wanted to be out of the car. But he, he, he, um,

So he messed up and he got smashed off. They already took off a lot of pressure off of me. Another thing that happened was we were talking about how like the Jewish community is like not so involved in the prison world. They actually are. Yeah. Kind of the Aleph Institute. Yeah, yeah. That's it.

We've talked about them before. It's funny. We actually, they're actually pushing for a just a regular white guy to get like to get a pardon. Yeah. And he's like, I have no idea why. He's like, I'm not Jewish. They just, I know somebody, know somebody and they just decided, yeah, this isn't right. We're going to represent you.

Exactly. But no, no, they're good. I'm just talking about, like, I'm talking about, like, typically, like, the families of the families are. They're embarrassed. Yeah, they're embarrassed. They don't really know anybody. This isn't a thing. Yeah.

So there's this, I don't know if you heard of them, the Aleph Institute. Yeah, that's what I know. Listen, they would do all they send in the rabbi. They get you moved to certain places. They call your senator. They make sure he's not getting proper medical. Like, and they have, like, real influence.

Exactly. I don't know why. Like, I don't know. I can never figure it out either. But when they get a phone call from them, you get, you'll get called into the fucking words. Hey, listen, we just got a phone call.

Yep. From rabbi so and so. So we're going to move you. You know, they don't. Yeah. Like, what's the difference between rabbi so and so in my mother calling? Exactly. It doesn't.

Yeah. They listen to him. Yeah, they have some type of juice. I don't know what it is. I can't figure it out. So at that time, when I wanted to, so I was told by the Aleph Institute, there's this Jewish prison called Otisville in New York. You ever heard of this?

Yes, I remember Otis. And I didn't want to go because there was a lot of Chomols over there. And it was like a dropout yard. Yeah. I didn't want to be around all of that stuff. But when I realized, you know. Don't go to prison. Exactly.

You know. Exactly. choose you you're in a better you're really in a better spot exactly i'd rather the whole prison be fucking chose because i'm a gangster yeah among chose exactly you know what i'm saying yep you have 500 shows and a couple hundred white guys or a couple other just regular other inmates yeah you're fucking walking around you walk straight to the front of the line live and they're not gonna say anything yeah it's because they're docile the most respectful right they're terrified so i this i heard about them about this prison before I got that discipline.

After the discipline, I was like, you know what? Maybe I should try to move over there now. So they got, they made the calls or whatever. When I told the other guys, my buddies over there, that I'm going to New York, they transfer me. They were like, like, we never heard somebody moving this quickly because they didn't understand the power of the Elephants. Right.

So I waited a few weeks to put my transfer in. And it was, I was happy. because I knew where I was going. Like, I hit a cloud pretty much. Did you tell me you were disappointed that you couldn't put in work that you were really forward to it? Nobody's more disappointed about this than me. Exactly, on the way out.

But it's so they sent me on two planes on Conair, 150 inmates at each plane, your shackled, handcuffed. It's the best. The best. I went to Oklahoma City first, spent two weeks over there. and then I went to Brooklyn, MDC. Spent two weeks over there. And I finally went to Otisville.

And I really hit a cloud. You know, you see like in Otisville too, like you have, there's like flowers and grass and stuff like that. And Victorville was all like dirt and like you felt the depression. When I got to Otisville, I go in there and I'm, it shocked me over there. I start walking around. I start seeing religious Jews everywhere with their. Keepa it's called and with the sits at the strings that hang out everywhere everywhere you go

I'm like what the heck it looks like a like a temple like a synagogue over here it was a prison and I the story is kind of like boring after after after that because I just the next five years of my life I didn't have to deal with politics right I could stay on my own I stopped listening to music I stopped watching TV started working out every single day I became religious I I became spiritual. I became like the model, not inmate, but I changed, like I changed my life. Yeah. You know?

And I wrote a book while I was over there called Conviction when I was 25, like a few years before I got out. This book. This book right here. And, and, yeah. What's this thing? What's this going on? This is a, it's called conviction. I wrote this when I was 25, a journey from prison to,

What's the rap? What's the thing around here? So this is called to fill in right here. What? To fill in. To fill in. Why does it see? Oh, so that's the way that they did it. You see like to have like a guy like in pain over there.

And the bars and everything like that. The publisher did a whole thing over there. And it's like a religious thing that we wear. Basically they're like in the morning, you connect yourself, you bind yourself to God. And yeah, it's just a way to connect to God in the morning. to God in the morning. Okay. And so this is what I did over there the last five years.

It was almost like a like a school for me. I took some college courses, stayed out of trouble. Then I eventually, I went home in February 22, and I spent a year in the halfway house. What was your game plan for getting out? So my game. I mean, you don't have a great charge, bro. No offense. You know what I'm saying?

Like people see they, I'm not sure. There's not there's a good charge. Yeah. But it's not like if it was like wire for one count of like wire fraud. Yeah. You can you can kind of almost lie or alter in some way why you got wire fraud. Oh, you know, I, I, you know, whatever. You come up with some kind of benign thing.

But, you know, like. Yeah. An armed robbery. So it's interesting. I had to tell my story. Because if I tell my story and if I'm open about it, it's almost like a comedian who makes jokes about his life. Yeah. you release it.

And then it's like, it's not that serious when it's out there already. Right. Like when I, like I met somebody, I met, I have a girlfriend. She knew from the first day.

This one? Yes. This is another one? No, sure. This is a new one? Is this the same one? Okay. You're going to get me in trouble.

That's a conversation on the way. What did he mean by that? I don't know. And she, she knew from the, from the gecko. Right. It's all over my Instagram too.

Like I put my story out there because I feel like it would have been weirder if I'm, you know, six months down the road. Oh, by the way, I'm an ex-arm robber. So if it's already out there and they tell them normal, this, that, it's cool. So that was my thing. And another thing, while I was in prison, I had dreams now. My football career was over. My dreams now were to go back to schools and to speak to high schoolers or anybody who's struggling about, you know, to show them through my story and to connect through my story

that doesn't matter where you came from, the ghetto or from the suburbs here or there, you could always end up screwing up. You never know where your life is going to take you. So I had dreams of getting out, becoming an author, a speaker. And that's pretty much what I've been doing since I got out. And so that was the game plan. That was the game plan. Yeah. I didn't know what it looked like exactly because it's hard to see, you know, the future when you're stuck over there for so long. But to get married, to have kids, and just to be normal, live normal, drug-free life. You still have, like, like, dreams and stuff from prison or, like, thoughts and stuff like that.

No, I think after about a year and a half, that went away. Especially after probation. How long were you in? Six years. Okay. So, yeah, I think they said after five years is detrimental or something. Right, right. Well, I think, yeah, I think it's if you've done more than, I want to say it's five or ten years.

They say you basically, it's almost like, it's like you have permanent PTSD or something. Yeah. But the, as far as dreaming, this is weird. Do you ever, have you ever heard me say this? I think you're going to say something about being on the inside, dreaming of the outside or something. Yeah. So what happened? And this is when, so when I went to the medium, I had, you know, I call him my cousin, right?

But really, it's my brother-in-law, the guy that's married to my sister, my brother-in-law, he has a cousin. So when I get there and I call my mom, like when I first got there, like my mom, I didn't call it to my mom in like two weeks. You know, because you're, you're in, first I was locked down. You were locked down for everything. I was in a transfer center. Atlanta. Okay. Oh, yeah, they always keep you locked down.

Yeah, I was there for two weeks. So when they let you out once every other day, you've got two choices. You can take a shower or you can go use a phone because there's a line for both. So I would just take a shower. I hadn't showered in days. So by the time I got to Coleman, I said, hey, listen to the counselor. You know, you go through, you meet with medical. You meet with SIS.

You meet with counselors. So I said, look, can I call my mom? She had heard from me in two weeks. And yeah, yeah, yeah. So I called. I said, hey, mom, I want to let you know. I'm at Coleman. She goes, okay, are you at the me, are you at the pen, the medium or the low?

What, my fucking mom? And I'm like, fuck. Like, I have no idea. I didn't even know they had a fucking pin. Like, I thought I'm at a medium. What do you? And she's like, yeah, Coleman has two pins, a medium and a low and a camp. She did all the research. She said, where are you? And I said, I'm at the medium. She's okay.

My mom sounds like. Yeah. She goes, okay, she said, you need to find your cousin Reese. And I went, my cousin Reese. And she says, yeah, she said he works on the compound. He's the head orderly on the compound. And I went, you know everything. Okay. I think she must have had it written. Now my mom was pretty sharp. them. And, and I'm like, okay. And she said, so I said, I have a cousin. And she goes, well, it's Jack's cousin. She said, but in this particular situation, she said, he's your family. He's going to look out for you. Right. And so I was like, okay, hang out the phone. Took me four or five days to find him. I think he kind of found me. Yeah. And, and so I, you know, he was there for like three or four years. Well, I'm sorry, he was, he had been there for three or four years and he was there for another two years or so.

So after I was just towards the end, after I've been there about two years, and I've been locked up three years. Yeah. I remember I came to him. I said, bro, I thought,

you're just fucking thing happening. Yeah, he said, what's that? I said, I'm having dreams where I'm outside. I said, but I'll be walking through the mall.

And because when I went in malls were still a thing. And I was like, I'm walking through the mall. And I look up and like there's guys from in here in the dream. And I'm thinking, holy shit. Like what's Jimmy doing? I said, and then there'll be somebody else will walk by and I'll be like, oh, my God.

You know, that's spooky or whoever. You know, that's, that's, you know, we had a guy in Coleman named doo-doo and a guy named Weewee. And he used to say that doo-do was a shit. So, and I will be like, oh, my God, that's doodoo. What's fucking? That's crazy. So I was telling, I was like, brother, so weird.

And I remember he looked at me and he goes, you still dream about the outside? And I was like, yeah, he said, oh, he goes, yeah, I guess it's been what, about two, three years, right? And I went, yeah, he said, that's a long time to be thinking about. He goes, you must think about the outside a lot. Like, I do. Yeah. He said, well, he said, you're still making phone calls to people outside. He said, you know, he said in another.

Right. He said, in another year or so, he said, you'll start dreaming about being in here. and people from the outside will be in here. He said, and then probably around five years, he said, you won't have any dreams about the outside or people on the outside. He said, this will become your entire world. So depressing. That was like, oh, soul crushing.

Like, don't tell me that. But he was absolutely right. I had total dreams about just being inside. I wasn't, nobody else was in the dream. And if I was thinking about someone else or talking to someone else, It was always on the phone or in visitation exactly where it would be. That's fucking nuts, right? I have dreams about going back all the time.

Oh, no, listen. What I did, I do too. Like for the first year, every time I'm a knock. Every time I think they're here. Just for a split second, I think the marshals are here because the U.S. Marshalls pick you up. And I would think they realize that they shouldn't let me go. There was a mistake.

They're coming to get me. Something happened. They're picking me up. And it just was natural. And I, if I'd gone and opened the door and there were two guys there and they said, cuff up, I'd turn around, I would have immediately turned around. I wouldn't have even asked. Yep.

Because, let's face it, they're marshals. They don't know anything. They're like, I was told to pick you out. Like, I don't fucking know your case. I would have done it without hesitation. And then the other thing was, I'd say it was six months. You were in the state. Feds.

Oh, you in the feds? Okay. Great. So it might be the same in the state too. But around, you know, I check my one, you know, 3.30, 345, I start feeling sick in my stomach because I had to, I knew I had to be in my cell at four. So, and that's just was naturally, I'd be in the unit. And I'd keep you by that last 30 minutes, you start, you start checking because I know they're going to call any minute. You're going to have to go to your cell.

Everybody knows to be in their cell. But they're going to call it. And like, you know, so you're constantly checking. And like, when do I, do I have time to go get coffee? Do I have time to heat up a soup? Do I have time to everything packed up? Have I talked to so-and-so? What's, you know, can I make a, can I use the email system real quick?

Core links. You know, can I shoot somebody? You know, so you're constantly, that last 15 minutes, it's like you just walk in, you stay in your cell. And you're staying and then you're quiet. And then a few minutes later, they come in, they count you and they walk through. And you have to be super quiet. And so, yeah, that this was.

for like six months. And six months after that halfway house, because in the halfway house, they count you. So it wasn't any difference other than the halfway house was much worse than prison. Because you know that. Did you do any halfway house? I did a year. It sucks. You would rather stay in prison.

I would have. Yeah. Honestly, it did. It really sucked. And house arrest, I was on house arrest too. That sucked too. Yeah. Well, that's got to be my understanding is just the horror stories that I'd heard.

Yeah. And the halfway off? I was thinking more of house arrest, just the anxiety because I've heard so many people, they've suddenly, they get a phone call and they're, you know, where are you? And you're like, what do you mean? I'm in my house. I was taking a shower and I scrubbed it too hard. Right.

And they called me and they're like, what are you doing trying to take it off? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's always, it's never like, hey, by the way, we got it. It's always like, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah. What do you think? Exactly.

Well, I'm coming to pick you up. Listen, I'm going to talk so and so you're getting violated. And it's like you guys enjoy, like, you understand that if you're not working, if you're, other than being this, this guard guard in the halfway house, you worked at a wah-wa, bro. Like, this is the first time you've ever been in a position where someone was concerned about you. If you lose this job right now, you were qualified to work at racetrack. Maybe, maybe a cashier at Walmart. Maybe, my understanding, there's a lot of math involved. So I don't know that you make that.

But they talk to you like you're a dog. And it's like, and they love it. You get these people that's like, you know, they always say like, oh, they don't make a lot of money. I know they get something better than that. They get that little feeling of power. And instead of being a nice person, they're really assholes. And it's like you're not even as qualified as a as a CEO. Yep.

I was going to say the same thing about the CEOs. And then those become the wardens, lieutenant. Right. It's crazy to think about. Which really funny is, because of course, I did 13 years, so I could watch this happen. And you talk to the COs, right? You get to know them. And what you find out happens is once they become part of the union, they can't fire them.

Right. It's almost impossible to fire them. They have to be. Unless they do like. Unless they commit a crime or they, you know, a crime meaning like they're bringing in drugs or drugs. Yeah. So they get just, they can get on drugs.

They'll send them to rehab. to let them back on the combat like they they no matter what they just will not fire them so what happens is when they have a guard that's such a fucking problem for them they have a ceo that they're just like this guy's a nightmare he's causing us nothing about problems yeah here's how they get rid of them they they give them um a new position and they don't give them another guard position they have to give them we're gonna make you a counselor oh but we don't have a a counselor position here, you're going to have to move to Pensacola. And they'll pay them to move.

They give them a movement. Like, they'll pay them $8,000 or $10,000 to move. But here's the guys there. They only get, they don't get to choose where they're going. No, this is where you're going. Right. So they're like, it's a raise. It's a much easier position.

You work nine to five. You don't work. You have to work late at night and overshift nothing because you're a counselor now. Yeah. That's where they all pissed off all the time. Right. Well, they're not prepared to be counselors. their nose, there's no training.

So they just sit, they sit with the counselor for two weeks to figure out the job. And then the other, but here's the thing. That's how they get rid of them. So if you're, this guy's a problem here.

First, they move them from the low to the medium, then to the pen, then this pen, then they try and make them miserable enough to get rid of them. They won't leave. Then they finally go,

okay, this guy's not leaving. We can't seem to convince him to quit. He's not getting better as many times we've talked to him. Um, okay, we're going to make him a counselor here. or maybe try and put him in a position where he can't cause any problems. Maybe as counselor, maybe he has very little interaction with the inmates or something.

So after years of being a problem, they will give him. And by the way, you can't turn it down. So you have to be a counselor here. So we're getting rid of you. And so they'll just move them. So here's what happens. The more of a pain in the ass, the more incompetent you are at your job, the more you, the quicker you raise through the ranks.

So you were a shitty guard Now you're a counselor He's a shitty counselor Make him a unit manager The only job in the world That would be The worse you are The more you go out

Yeah, do this Make them here Send him here That's why they're so bad So if you become like the Not necessarily the The guy running the place Yeah

But if you get way up there You're a fucking You're a menace You're a menace That's why everybody's like You know Why is this so fucking corrupt and so fucked up and the system's so bad because because the the shit rises to the top

of the pile. So they're not they're not capable of correcting anything. These guys aren't smart up. These are not sharp people. Yeah. So what you said publisher, did you get it traditionally published or did you just go straight to Amazon? So it's interesting.

When I was in prison, I sent it, I had my mom, I wrote everything down and then emailed the whole thing to my mom. Took me days to send it out to her. Yeah. I wrote like six books. While you were there, so you did the same things? Through Corlings. Yeah, through Corlings.

Yeah. And my mom almost lost everything. And I was like, oh my gosh, when she was saving it. But thank God she didn't. She sent it to like 20 Jewish publishers. And they all said, this is like, we can't put this in the Jewish community. This is too much. When I got out, I sent it to the same 20 publishers.

One of them were like, okay, they picked it up. And then they, it's interesting. It went out into a bunch of Jewish stores after it got published and printed. Yeah. Is this supposed to be? This isn't you. That's me. Is it?

Yeah. I just look different with the to fill in its call and with my Kippa. And this is a Talit. That's like three years ago, this picture. Yeah. Yeah. On the quarrelings, I wrote, so I would do like, I do like, so you know, like, every every like 30 days, it purges.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? When I first started, it didn't. It did it every 90 days. And then one day, somebody came just one guy who knew it. Some guy came up to me and said, hey, man, did you see that thing on whatever the posts that they post? Yeah. The staff could.

Did you see that thing on the post? He said, that's going to fuck you up. And I went, what is it? And he said, yeah, that now they're purging everything in 30 days. And I went from what? He said, from the draft. on Quirlings and I went the fuck out of here.

Like why would you say and he was I don't know he said I'm just and I go are you fucking with me? He's like bro go check so I checked I was like holy jean I'm like no I'm like 26 days

oh shit so I had to go save everything so now I'm saving every two weeks it took me at one point by the end of the books so I'd have I'd save it like chapter one

Nick you mind my chapters or not because you can only put it I think it's like 1,400 characters or 2800, whatever the characters are. So in one draft, you couldn't have a whole chapter. It would be like chapter A or chapter one A, chapter one B, chapter one C. Because I could only type so much.

And I did it like that so that I could print them out. And then I could hand them to people to read so they could edit it for me. I had someone edited it to in prison for it. Yeah, which is perfect. And then I go and I'd make the change. And before I sent it to somebody on the street who would then copy. and paste them and put them into a word document. Yep.

And then they print it out, send it back to me, and I could do it again. What the, so, you know, the anxiety of that book, the longer it got. Yeah. And then keep on to it took me because you, I don't know how it is now, but you could only go on the computer like 30 minutes at a time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so you paid whatever it was, like $1.50 or $2 for in Quarlings to do that. for me to save it, it took me almost two full sittings.

So I could save like if there's 30, 30 chapters. Yep. It took because you have to go into the draft, save it, get out. Go to the next one, save it, go out. Go to the next one, save it, go out. Go to the next one. And this thing is not fast. It's not that fast.

It's like you hit click and then, and then it's like, okay, now going to the next one, you click, save. And I mean, sometimes you'd be. sitting there for like a minute and you'd be like you know sometimes you time out you even could be fucking five minutes it's in there so horrible yeah and so i did it literally had to be there the whole 30 minutes to get to like 15 yeah and then i'd be like fuck i'm gonna be this gonna take and then the next time might take the whole thing so yeah but yeah it was it was we don't understand how how like you said the anxiety from writing a book and right well one time i wrote a book from this guy

effron devoroli uh it's the guy who uh did you see war dogs yeah yeah with uh jonah hill right so Jonah Hill plays effort Deverelli. I was in prison with him. I wrote his memoir. That's a Jew. Yeah, I know. Very. He was funny.

He was telling me one time, like one time he was going to synagogue. And so he went and I went, why are you going to synagogue? I was like, like, you don't even believe in God. And he looked at me and he said, the way I see it is that, you know, if it's true, then I went. And if it's not, then, you know,

What does it hurt? Yeah. And I went, yeah, I don't think that's how it works. He was always looking for an angle. He goes, I'm hedging my bets. Yeah. I was like, oh. That's funny.

But his book, when I sent it, it's all about arms and weapons and weapons. So imagine I have all of the names of all these weapons. And he wasn't just like AK-47s or 7.62 rounds. We're talking about Russian sniper, sorry, not even Russians. This is when they were Soviet, sniper rifles, missile launcher. I mean, he's selling all kinds of stuff. So when I went to send it, you know, all our emails go through a sorting system. Yeah.

So when I had to go send it to my publisher, I call him, I'm like, listen, man, I'm about to send all this stuff. And I explained it to him. I'm assuming it's going to get through because I printed out everything. I had a whole stack of the book that I was going to mail out in paper. And I was like, I may go to the shoe. Like if they catch this and they see all the weapons, he's like, well, they'll realize it's a, it's a, it's a book, Matt. I went, no, no, no. They will realize that in two weeks or in three months from now.

After they'll let me, they'll initially, they'll grab me. They'll throw me in the shoe. Then eventually they'll figure out, oh, this is a book. I said, but until then, I'll probably be in the shoe. I'm just letting you know, if you don't hear from me, That's what happened. And I said, also, I need to know as soon as possible that you got all of them. So I literally sent like 85 emails to this guy.

It took several sittings to send all these different emails to him. And they came in batches. So he would get like, you would think he'd get like chapter one all the way through. No, he'd get, I got like two from chapter 15. I got all of chapter seven, eight, and 12. I've got. And then, you know, it just took hours. Like it was like just before like count when I called him the last time.

I'm like, hey, bro, he's like, I got everything. Everything. I was like, okay. And then I was still thinking, I still go to the shoe tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. Just because, you know, it flags stuff. I know. I worried about that too.

So, yeah. Talking about the past. Oh, yeah, you're talking about drugs and things like, yeah, you don't, you don't know. Yeah. It's a problem. I actually wasn't going to even do this. I was working out with, I don't know if you'd ever interviewed. The zo pound, it's like a gang in Florida, like a Haitian gang.

Yes, those are always Haitians. They're all called so. And he, one of the guys who was part of that, we used to work out together in prison. And he wrote a book, too. Oh, okay. And he was like, man, you have a crazy story. You should write a book. I'm like, eh.

And then they locked us down for like a week because someone got in a fight. I wrote the whole book during the lockdown, the whole thing. Yeah, I was going to say, first of all, where, where are you ever, when, when are you ever going to have this time? I would talk to these guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about right one. When I get out, I'm going to write one. Yeah, right. No, forget it.

You're never writing a book. You can't write a book. And to make it in a pure form of yourself, not, you know, it's. Yeah, not a time crunch, not a, you know, yeah, it's, it's tough. It's tough to, it's much, much harder to write a book about yourself than it is. is to write a book about someone. It's just to be so easy for me to write your book. Yeah.

Because I see you how you, probably see you how you are. As opposed to the way you see you. Exactly. And so it's really difficult to step outside yourself and realize, because it's hard to say the kinds of things you need to say about yourself and admit those things to yourself because nobody wants to admit that, you know, I was jealous or that I was selfish or that I was, you know, that I didn't care. When I made this decision, I didn't give it fuck. what happened in this person.

I gave a shit. Never even entered my mind. Even worse, even worse, it never even occurred to me what was going to happen to them. I didn't even, it didn't even think about it. At least if you thought about it, you, they could say, okay, well, at least he does think about other people at some points. No, it never even occurred to me what was going to happen to this person. You know, like, you have to admit a lot of stuff.

Like, it's hard to write a book about you, you know, so much every time I write a book about somebody else. It's like, it's way easier. Yeah. And of course, when they read the book, they're always upset. They're always, I don't think I've written a book yet where people weren't irritated and the things that I, my description of them or the things that I'd said or the things that, you know, it's like, but, you know, that's the whole thing.

You don't, you don't know who you are, you know. No, no, I'm a good guy. I think that woman you kidnapped would disagree completely that you were. I think your wife that you got arrested three times for domestic violence. that apparently you've told me every single time it was our fault. Yep. I have a hard time believing that. Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching.

Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, if you'd like to read Sean's book, we are going to leave all of his links in the description box, including social media. Also, you can click on the link for Amazon or, I'm sorry, to his website, shoot over there. You can buy the book. Is it on Amazon? No.

It is, but we don't want it to, we bought from them. We don't want it bought from Amazon. So click on the link. go to his website. You can buy it directly off the website and go to his socials and follow him and check out what he's doing and the content that's on there.

I really do appreciate you guys so much for watching. Thank you very much. See ya.