Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - HOW I SCAMMED OPRAH, THE MOB & AMERICA | Barry Minkow (ZZZZ BEST PONZI SCHEME)

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

HOW I SCAMMED OPRAH, THE MOB & AMERICA | Barry Minkow (ZZZZ BEST PONZI SCHEME)

And everybody says, how could anyone have fallen for the old Ponzi scheme? Well, very easily. I took taxes out of people's checks, never paid a dime. Then it was master charge of visa fraud. It wasn't long before I got into the mafia money. It's one thing after another, after another, all to keep the balls in the air and the plate spinning. And meanwhile, I was the hero of Wall Street, television commercials, Oprah, and dumb. It all came crumbling down.

guidelines are in 600 million. Life, I needed an excuse that would even fool the mob, that would fool the auditors, that would fool Wall Street. And I'm like 19. And I'm thinking, you know, I started out at same-day carpet care. I think they were in Northridge and then went to Dunright carpet care and then started to learn out of clean carpets as well. But the upbringing was great, great parents. But, you know, when you're in ninth grade and the powers turn off no hot water and you have to call your friend to spend the night to take a hot shower to go to school in ninth grade and then get handouts from the temple it was tough so that was then that I kind of and leading up to that point that you know I no matter what it takes I don't want

this to have love my dad love my mom but the whole broke ass thing is like brutal as soon as I could work I did I mean I remember getting jobs at you know pop and taco with a work permit that was forged just so I can get in, went to Foster Freeze to work. I mean, whatever it took, because I knew this whole money thing was a thing. Yeah. Worked at the gym that I worked out at as a, you know, clean the showers. I couldn't afford a membership so I cleaned the showers. I mean, every Saturday, you know, scrubbing the showers just so I could have a membership there. And the owner's name was Ed Stevens took me underswain, a really good guy and saw that family was struggling and gave me an opportunity. So then when it came time to, you know, going in high

school, and that's when it all kind of began. At what point did you realize I'm just going to start my own company? So, okay, so shallow as I am, I went to Grover Cleveland High School. So let me tell you about that high school. That's where Brett Sabregan, World Series champion pitcher for the Kansas City Royals was in 12th grade. I was in 10th grade. We were in the same like Spanish three class, he was famous. And if you wanted to be on the map or recognized by the cool crowd or date like I had a crush on a cheerleader, I had a 72 Buick I used to drive fairly. I had to start it with a screwdriver because of the selenoid. And you could hear it before it arrived and nobody, no girl at Cleveland High School would want it to be caught dead. There

was image management issues. So, you know, I could overcome not being the best looking guy. Now, you didn't have that trouble. I mean, I, in a non-prison, way. You're a good-looking man. I mean, so you don't have the issues. In prison, they were going to go, yeah, no homo, but you're good looking at. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. So, if anybody was going to be caught dead with me, I said, I got to get an Azuzu truck over there, like, five or six grand, and then this girl will go out with me, and all will be right with the world. It's amazing how money will, is like the great equalizer. So I thought. So I thought. And many great ones before and after me, thought the same thing. It's something

about climbing that ladder that, you know, to get to the top and you get there and you find out that it's leaning against the wrong wall. So it's late. You're still young. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful thing about life. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterwards. And certainly that was the case with money. So what happened was I was working at Dunright Carpacare. But I was also a cleaner because now I had not just, I had graduated from just telemarketing. So I knew how to market the industry but into actual carpet cleaning and um i there was a guy at my gym who i so admired out of respect for his son who i respect very much won't mention his name but it's a public record um he was kind of a bookie and always had i mean matt he had like we worked out

he bench he benched like 315 for like six and i would buy some Anabolic steroids from him when I was like 14, 15, 16, 17, just Diana ball, whatever it was. Who knew? That was the 80s. Playing with Star Wars figures. I mean, what? It was the 80s. That's what I tell my kids.

14 has a fucking job. I'm playing with fucking Star Wars figures. I tell my son, I used to tell my sons when they were 17. I'm like, what are you doing? I was committing felonies at your age. What's wrong with you? Anyway, tidying checks. Anyway, so the, what happened was I went, he asked.

me to, he was like my hero and, um, because he had all that money and always. And he did, he did betting too. So he did booking, but he also, so he did lending, which is kind of a, you know, low ranking kind of, but not an underworld guy. His last name did end in the Val or anything like that. One day he says, I need you to come clean my car, to my home in Van Nuys was on Lameda Street. I'll never forget it. I was 16. It was like September of two, I'll never forget it, pulled in after school. And I did his carpets, worked hard, sweat, emptied the, you know, did the whole thing, had my double vac unit. And I was done, he was sitting on the sofa.

He says, how much one of those things cost? I said, well, you need this and a shampooer. You know, I'd say it's about, you know, $1,500 for both if you get a good one. He goes, you ever think of going into business for yourself? And I thought. um no because it's fifteen hundred dollars for this and for that right like that's when you're making you know that's a chunk of money at at your age that's a good point but all i thought was this is like maybe i could do that right and rescue myself believe me it was a narcissistic

motivation i wish it was altruistic it wasn't um and i uh He said, I'm going to give you $1,600 bucks. You buy the equipment, but here's the deal. 200 a week interest only. Can you handle it? What do you think I said, Matt? Fuck, 200, fuck him. Are you a sane?

I didn't do percentages. I'm like, yeah, I could do that. All I thought is that, no, all I thought is two- percent interest, 600% interest or something a year. But that's not what I thought. I thought it puts me on the map. I get my own company and get that car. I can change things.

And that's two jobs. So the, for me, you know, living room, dining room hall, three bedrooms at the time, basic steam clean, $69.95. If I couldn't upsell that thing to $200, I'm a truck, right? In prison, Colby, that means you're no good if you're a truck. We have to translate. We have to carry him. Yeah, yeah, he did.

So I said, I could do that. Two jobs. Jack them to two, and that's all, that's your interest. And I'm in business. Didn't think about payroll. Didn't think about taxes. Didn't think about, well, You're going to need a business account and you're 16.

And in California, you can't sign on a legal binding contract to your 18. Never thought of it. And I took the money. And I was more proud of the fact that somebody actually gave me that kind of money at 16. But he had seen me come in the gym. He watched me, washed the showers. And he mentioned that. Yeah, yeah.

Says, I see your work ethic. And he's a hard, you're a hard worker, you're going to figure it out. Right. And so I, I, when I'm in 11th grade, and my mom was a great telemarketer. So the first two, I set up a picnic table in the garage, hired Vera and my mom, the two best telemarketers ever. There was only one problem. Where are the leads? Well, they, they call people.

So back in the 80s, nobody had a cell phone. Right. And you had a hard line, hi, this is Barry with Z-Best carbon cleaning? Click. No, no. That's what they, you got to make 20 of those before somebody says, yes. See, see, you got to, that's your problem. You got to go back in time.

That was, people were not. They weren't doing that yet. No, I'm telling you, today these guys are machines. You block a call from one creditor. The same creditor will get a new number. I don't know how they do it. These guys are tenacious. But back then, people weren't tripping.

They had hard lines. Hi, I'm Barry with Z-Best Carbicare. We're offering a special. We're in your neighborhood. living room, dining room hall, $3,2.95. And, you know, that kind of thing. So, booked the leads, and they were great. So I had leads, no problem.

Problem was I was in school. I'm at 11th grade. Who's going to do that? So I had to hire carpet cleaners, and the typical gig was 40 to 45% commission. That is, you give them the lead. They do the job in your company name and they're subcontractors, and they get 40 to 45% of the take. You get the rest.

Well, I had guys stealing from me. They saw me as a mark. I lost my equipment to some guys who stole it. I mean, it was all bad. But I realized that there was a sense in which I didn't want to quit or give up. My mom and Vera were on payroll now. On weekends, I could work. So I made it up then, like Saturday, Sundays I'd do as many.

I tried to do four jobs on a Saturday with a helper, and that would help balance the books, meet the payroll. But quickly, Matt, it became apparent that my cash flow was suffering. So two things happened. One, Diner's Club. You ever hear Diner's Club? Yeah. Okay.

Probably doesn't know what Diner's Club is. Diner's Club sent me a credit card. That was a mistake. Wow. How old were you? God, 16. 16. But you file a DBA, right?

So they're not tripping. They're not thinking that any 16-year-old is, so they just sent it to you back then. They didn't do due diligence like they do today to give out credit. But they just sent it to me. And like they had no limit on those things, right? Back then. Remember when America's Miss really had no limit?

Now they're like, yeah, we have no limit, but it's $500 for you, you bum, right? So they, I started taking the cool guys out, crowd out, like on Friday nights after the football game. And I noticed very quickly that when I was paying the tab, I was always included. Right. So no longer was I the, you know, kind of like he's not a bad guy, he's not one of us, he's kind of, I was in. Yeah, you weren't an outsider anymore. Correct. And I quickly summarized and determined that if I keep buying, people will accept me, they'll love me, they'll want me to be a part of their group.

And that little nugget was perhaps one of the most dangerous. connections that I had ever made to keep me motivated because it was brutal because here's what I learned quickly. People like you, not for who you are, but what you can do and bring to the table and do for them. So that was a reverse of today. But so then the other thing that happened was I couldn't meet payroll. And I would go to, I never forget my first check-in account. California Federal Savings in Recita, California on Sherman Way and Reseda, right and they're there.

No longer there, of course. In 1982, I dress up in like my dad's suit to look older because I look 16. You can't open an account, so I wanted to hand in my DBA. You have to give me your license, but I kind of distracted. You know, I watched the Rockford files a lot, so I use some tips there. And always would get the account open. And inevitably, three weeks later, a month later, Mr. Minko, we have to close your your account, we admire that you're doing such a great thing, but you've got to be 18.

So my local liquor store and Rick's liquor, right around the corner from our house, my sister and I grew up there. We'd always, summers, we were seven, eight, ten, walked there, get candy, come back. And the owner was a guy named Ben, super nice guy. And he watched me grow up and he knew about my business. He goes, listen, I got to check cashing company. You give me your checks made out the Z best. That was the name of the company.

Right. And I'll give you a money orders to pay your bills or whatever. I want to help you. Wonderful. So I would go in with checks, three or four checks, made out to Z-Best, and he would convert them to money orders. He barely charged me a fee. And he had it.

Now, remember, this is 82. So it was one of those, he had those handle things, right, in printing. And then he had money orders in a box, and it was general money order. I'll never forget it. And it got to the point where he trusted me. with the box. And one day on a Thursday evening, you fucked up with that.

Here, take the box. I'm 16 and a half, 17. No, no, no. So let me be clear. At, when I came into the store, it would be at the register, the box and the thing. And then he'd come and sign it

and calculate, make sure my math was right. So never did he think in the fairies. And he would go in the back and move bottles or whatever he had to do. He was a one man show. So when I say, trust you with the box, he just said, okay, do your number.

do your calculations. I have to sign the money errors. He did. And then I'll issue them to you, but do all the legwork. And then I got you. And that's how it was. Well, one day, I couldn't meet payroll.

So I took a money order from the bottom of the box thinking, by the time he gets to it. Now, listen, this is critical. By the time he gets to it, I'll pay it back. Right. Yeah. Everybody does it. Nobody's going to get it.

get hurt. Yeah. And after all, Matt, I'm meeting payroll. I'm not gambling. I'm not on drugs. So if the meeting payroll excuse is strong enough, you could silence your conscience. Yeah. The justification, you can justify pretty much anything, you know.

And the, uh, today, yeah. So he's in the back, cars going by. Saticoy and White Oak. And I'm thinking to myself, do I do this? And I reached to the bottom, pulled out one or two, made them, stuffed them in my pocket. And I noticed something about financial fraud or white-collar crime or money order theft. Unlike if I was to come in a store with a gun, the consequences, there's a high likelihood would immediately follow the action.

the seductive thing about white-collar crime is you don't get caught immediately after you do it, reinforces the behavior, even though you swear you won't do it again or pay it back. When economic pressure comes back, you're going to go back to what works before. Yeah, you've become emboldened by the success, even though you weren't successful, it just hadn't caught up to you yet. That's great. That's exactly right. But the people who, even to this day that I run into perpetrate white-collar fraud,

especially during COVID, well, the government shut me down. and some of them had real good payroll. I call them payroll equivalent reasons, but still nonetheless. The government shut me down. This is fair. I could hear the payroll reason. But for me, that was a line.

And I never looked back. And I made the determination, thought about the Diners Club card, thought about a news story that just came out on a local CBS. Hey, young guy is cleaning carpets. And everybody would, remember, there's no cable TV, so everybody saw it.

Hey, I wish my son was like you. And I'm thinking, no, you don't. But okay. So then everybody started to recognize me. And by the time I'm in 12th grade, I got three offices, you know, 80 employees. And was, so recita, Thousand Oaks, Anaheim, one of the first three. And I wasn't blowing up. I was always lying to myself that if I could just open more retail stores and generate

enough cash flow somehow. I'll catch up. What I didn't realize is when you're 16, 17, 18-year-old carpet cleaner with not a whole lot of assets and barely legal on signing a check-it account, banks aren't throwing money at you lending. So it quickly became apparent. So I went from check-kiding, money-order theft to check kiting. Back then, let me define, back in the day you had a good two, three, four maybe, but three for sure float time in between you depositing a check and it clearing. So I opened several banks, accounts that didn't know each other and would deposit in one account a check and I'd get immediate credit. So it's like a two or three day loan. But I'd always keep in my mind when the next check was you. You can't

let one bounce that red flags the account. You're done. No room for error. Then it was master charge of visa fraud. So what that meant is at CarbicLean, we accepted Master Charge of Visa, got a merchant account. Back then, you had that thing that goes, remember?

Right. Yeah, you can look it up. And you call in for an approval number, right, on the card. You didn't, that was it. And I would, on a 69.95 carbon cleaning, I would make it $2.69. And no, they'd charge back and say, oh, Carbicle made a mistake.

It would take two or three months. letters back. It wasn't computer instant. It took them a while to find out. And I played the float. Right. So I had that cash. I was at California Overseas Bank and I got caught. 98,000 merchant visa master charge fraud. They caught me. I don't know how, but they- $98,000? Oh, yeah. It was two, it was, I was two years of business. I just graduated high school. That jumped. That went from the $200 one. That really. So I'm fast-forwarding through 82, 83, 84 in growth. So this is a constant.

I mean, this is a constant. So on the one hand, we had enough carpet cleaning legitimate to make me feel good that somehow I'm going to rescue this thing. On the other hand, payroll and juice loans, right? So with the 200 a week and so forth. Yeah. Are you still paying this guy? Still paying this guy.

But not only that, it got worse because it wasn't long before I got into the mafia money loans. And I'll get to that in a second. But in California Overseas Bank, on Ventura Boulevard, White Oak, I think, the guy called, manager called me in and says, Mr. Rico, I know what you're doing, and I'm going to call the Secret Service. I said, really, what's, what am I doing? He goes, I just got a call from the fraud division of Master Charge and Visa, and they flagged your account as merchant fraud overbilling. And I said, well, and I thought about it. He goes, the amount's 92,000.

And I said, I understand. And he goes, I'm going to call the Secret Service. And I said, okay, you can do that. Or I'll just sign a note right now. It'll be paid within 30 days, 60 days worse. I have a couple cars I can give you his collateral that are free and clear for the carbon cleaning division. They weren't, but I said it anyway.

And I would like you to please consider the ramifications of, of your boss finding out that some 18-year-old kid kind of, you know, did this. Now, I had dishonest carpet cleaners. I'm asking you to give me a chance. I'm working my butt off. Right. So it wasn't my fault. And I'll pay it within 30, 60 days.

And I'm not sure people are going to feel safe that their money is in a bank that an 18-year-old, you know, defrauded. Right. So I said, here's the registrations in the cars. Within three weeks, I'll have the DMV mail you, the pink slips. You just give them back to me. go do the note and you'll be handled. Now, at that moment, I'm out of business. If he says, you know what, no.

Yeah. I don't care what the ramifications are. You're a crook, and I don't believe your excuse and whatever. But he thought about it and mold over his options. And within 60 days, I paid him off by creating another master charge and visa fraud and another bank that used a different credit card division. time. And then I got involved with the, so on the one hand, I'm managing this company, but I like the publicity of being this young entrepreneur, have a PR firm, you know,

they're just trying to get me publicity. I'm thinking somebody's going to look at me and give me money. I mean, that's what I'm that naive. And sure enough, after I had graduated high school, my uncle, Joe Mark called me. I always loved my uncle. I passed away no long ago. And And he was a terrific builder, and he built townhome projects, him and his brother. And one was called Top of the Mark. And Jack Kattain bought one of his units in Tarzana. And I got a call for my uncle because I did all his, you know, carbiclaying. And he said, I need you to go to Tarzana and handle an account.

I said, I'll send to me. He goes, no, I want you to go. But listen. And I'll never forget this, Matt. He goes, this guy's a real mafioso. Be careful, Barry. What am I thinking? Mafioso, I know enough about, you know, from TV.

They lend money. That's all, Matt, that's all I'm thinking about it. Your life, forget the life, you know, all that. I mean, it's all I'm thinking about. Nobody would lend me money, so I'll take it. So maybe, but maybe. So I said, no problem, Uncle Joe. So I go there and his wife's name is Phyllis, and he's there.

And he comes down the stairs and he has an article. He says, you must be Barry with Z-Best. I bought the property from your Uncle Joe. Yes, I'm here to help you with the problem with the carpet and fix it for you, stretch it, whatever, repair it. And he had an article in his hand from the Los Angeles Herald Examiner, now extinct. And it was an article about me, being an entrepreneur.

were. And he says, I know all about you. You know, I used to run Rusco Industries and New York Stock Exchange public company. Now, my uncle said he's Frank Niddy's cousin from Chicago. Be careful. Right. Well connected. And, of course, you know, at the time, he didn't have Google, but clearly he was, and Rusco Industries, that was in the Wall Street Journal. It's like, and he said, why don't you talk to me about your company and your challenges? And of course, I told him my capital challenges being, you know, just turning 18 and not having the financing and growing and so he said, you know what, I think I can help you? Within two weeks, I met somebody on Lindley and Sherman Way and Recita who handed me a brown paper bag. Remember, I'm 18 and nobody

forced me into this relationship. I didn't have to do it. I wasn't at gunpoint, as I would later say in trial. Right. It was purely, and the guy to this day is the only name I'll never mention because he's still around out of respect. So the only names, Jacketain's dead. And no mobster ever got indicted in my case. I was the head guy.

And he handed me a brown paper bag. It was always good to me too, but he was scary, him and his brother. And he said, 25,000's in there. You paid a juice, five points a week. $12.50, keep it as long as you want. Don't be late. He gave you a better deal than the other guy, pretty much, right? $12.50 a week, yeah. And then that launched me into a connection with organized crime that led all the way to New Jersey because Mr. Kain had an associate who was very well connected

at the time and under indictment in New Jersey for some drug thing or something. So if you read a public record behind Minko, police learn how mob moved in on Minko. If you Google it, it's still there. Right. So that their belief is off the table. You don't have to trust me. They'll talk about that family and the connection and all that.

So police learned how a mob moved in on Minko. You can still Google. So now I'm involved with Ketain and his New York connection. And the funniest thing happened, while I was at Dunright Carpet Care, I used to work with a guy named Joel. And I love Joel. He was a great salesman, and I was his helper. And my first time as his helper, I was in Mission Valley, Matt,

and living in the room, Darmah Hall, three bedrooms, and he showed me how to sell. He took, said, the lady, look, we just cleaned your carpets. If you wanted him to stay clean, we need to scotch guard them. It's kind of like a liquid plastic over your carpet, but it doesn't change the texture. And it'll prevent from resoiling. It'll make them last.

And after all, ma'am, your third largest investment, your house, your car, and your carpets. I'm like, I got to write that down. That's a good. I got to write that down. So he sells the scotch card. He goes, don't worry about the price. We do it by square footage.

Nobody walks under your sofa. We're not going to scotch garden. Just traffic area. So he goes, $179 out the door total. She goes, okay, I'll do it. That was my cue. Go in the car, get the Hudson Sprayer, fill it with Scotch card, and spray it on and rake it in.

We had a carburek. I go in the truck, I forgot to load the Scotch card. Now, I'm like 15 and a half in learning this business, and I sit in the car and start crying because I'm like, I'm done. And Joe, so Joe comes out and says, where the hell are you? What's wrong, Joel? I forgot the scotch card. He goes, is that why you're crying?

Get the hell out of that car. Listen to me. Fill that thing with water. Put a little deodorizer in it. I was just thinking. Put a little bubble gum deodorizer in it. Spray it and rake it in and stop your whining. And so I did it.

Now watch this. Now, remember, this is first time, right? This is before money orders. So I rake it in and lady comes, boy, that scotch card smells good because I had the bubble gum. And I said, yeah. So I go back to the, we finished the job, I go back to the office and I'm waiting for like CSI carpet cleaning Nicole and say, we caught you, we tested the fibers, there's no scotch card here, and the call never came.

And when I started Z-Best, I learned that if you sell a product that you don't actually buy or pay for, that increases your margins to pay juice loans, right? So again, reinforces the behavior, don't get caught, unlike arm robbery, same kind of a thing. But that forged my character and there were no repercussions. And I don't blame him because he didn't make me do it in the future. And he wouldn't have done it had I remembered, but he wasn't going to lose the 179. Well, he used to go to a place to get his car fix called Reliable Auto. Little did I know about Reliable Auto. It was a guy named Bob Victor ran it with his son, Stevie. They always took care of our cars, smogged him and all that. Bob Victor calls

me in one day. He says, hey, can you come down here? I'm like, yeah, okay, because I'm in Z-Best now, and I just, I'm with Ketain and just did the loan and paying the $12.50 and struggling. And I get this call out of the blue. I haven't talked to him like a year because, you know, once in a lot, I'd go by and say hi. And he said, let me explain. I go in there. He goes, you got to, he takes me to shut the door. Now, he's kind of heavy set, but he works hard, greasy, and says, I want to tell you something. My name's Robert. Vigiano. I changed it to Victor. I did time for, and he goes, I'm connected. I know what you're doing with that guy, he called him. And that guy's no good. And I want to introduce you to somebody

who's going to protect you. And perhaps, if you want, get you the financing you need at a little less interest. And kids, you're getting shook down. I said, well, I can't just leave, they'll kill me. I mean, you know, I never have been threatened. Yeah. But I'm like, I know the implications of, like, not paying. He goes, I'm not saying not paying. I'm saying, let me handle it with my connections. I know some people.

Just trust me on that. So I had known him longer. And Coutain wanted to move into my office and have a little office there. And he literally was trying to secretly take over the company and tell people what to do. Right. So people were getting freaked out. Yeah. Even my right.

I remember Chip, my right. I meant saying, this guy. So I agreed, and he introduced me to some guy named Maurice Rand, who was a stock guy, and Richie Shulman, who was now passed away. But he was a concierge for New York families when there was a, he was from Regal Park, when there was a problem. He was a Jewish guy, but very well respected and connected. And then he had another guy that owned a restaurant who was with the banana family,

and he stepped in, and they had a meeting in New York. And they got rid of Coutain. And I'm like, and he goes, now let's go public. So, because that was always my dream. So they got rid of him. Their deal was, we don't want nothing from you, kid. And I said, well, I need financing. They led me to somebody, $250,000 kickback for a $2.1 million loan.

J.O.B. Equities in New Jersey had to go to Montfail and got the money with a $250,000 kickback. but I was thrilled to pay it. So there you go. It's one thing after another, after another, all to keep the balls in the air and the plate spinning. And meanwhile, I have to learn accounting. Right. I was going to say you're just a kid,

like, was anybody involved in this whole thing? Like, were your parents at any point saying, no, no, not your, I'm saying, were they at some point saying, how are you doing the book? Like I would, to me, if my, if my wife's daughter, I said, I'm going to start a company, you know, she's 17. And if, you know, and, you know, oh, I'm going to do this. And I saw her doing things. One, my first thought was taxes, accounting.

Like, you're not capable. You're 17. You're not capable of managing all of this. Like, we need to have some conversations. So my parents were only concerned. My mom worked for me from day one. Right. She knew nothing about the mob. She was not financially sophisticated. Right. She's an employee. My dad was concerned, but he would later work for me the last year of Z-Best, but not at the time. And he was concerned because he heard about Cotain and he was worried because my uncle said something. But as far as they were concerned, I was an entrepreneur and I kept all that definitely separated from even my right-hand man at Z-Best. It wasn't until we started to do the restoration jobs and the public offering that I had to bring one other person in and then a team behind them to help make that fraud happen.

But listen, the more people that know, the increased likelihood of telling. I mean, I knew that young. And I think also, I was very fortunate to find holes that in the system. Let me give you an example. I took taxes out of people's checks. Right. Never paid a dime. Now, hold on.

You tell me, hey, Matt, what was the computer system that the IRS had to flag fraudulent? Back in the 80s, like nothing. They drove a truck through it. Yeah. And that saved my butt because, and then at the end, I'd make up W-2s, and they'd have no basis to which they could tie it against. And when I was found guilty, I remember Paul Davis from the IRS coming to me, a criminal division looked just like a criminal division guy, you got to tell me about the payroll taxes.

I said, Paul, you can drive it. I can't go cast a $5 check at B of A without ID. But I can steal from all these employees payroll taxes without anything. Yeah. And there's no cross-referencing. So I'm sure I wasn't the only one I was doing it. Now you go to prison for not paying payroll tax. Well, I was going to say that's 15 to 20, maybe 25% for every, every dollar you're paying

them. You're able to withhold 20%. Which is why they collect weekly almost. So the government does not let the companies play the float like they used to. but I'm driving, kiting, drove a truck through the float time. Master charge and visa, you know, had more time to, nothing I'm proud of. I'm just saying I exploited what I saw at a necessity because I felt like it was becoming life or death.

And when it came to accounting, everybody says, how did you learn accounting? Because, you know, we do cooking the books, whatever account you know about fraud. I teach that for the ACFE and I teach accountants at college free. I do all college is free, county students. And I just said, because when your life's on the line, you're a quick learner. And I felt that my life was on the line. So I go to a bank and they say, you need a balance sheet, statement of cash flow, income statement, P&L. I'm like, what the heck is that?

So I had two choices. Figure out what that one. Or go under with all the repercussions that included physical harm to my nurse. narcissistic self. Right. That couldn't happen. Yeah. Then tax returns.

They wanted two years tax returns. So I found a lady named Freddie Cranston. As crooked as she made phony tax returns. Sweetest lady, I mean, she's long gone now. This is like 82, 83. But she made the mistake one day of creating two tax returns with different amounts. For the same year. For the same year.

And I took them to first, to charter Pacific. Bank and Agura, where Katain brought me to try to get long-term financing. And Jim Volterik is the senior credit officer, calls me in his office, says, Mr. Minko. I know you're friends with the president, Mr. Blom, and Mr. Ketain introduced you, but I have a serious problem here. He throws these tax returns. And you've submitted these to corroborate income for Z-Best in 1984, yet there are different amounts for the same year.

And he goes, that's a problem. I said, really? Dude, I'm 18. I got both returns. I forgot which one I filed. I was being honest by giving you both. Right. I mean, is that bad?

And he goes, well, you know, you are, it makes sense. And okay, here's your loan. So, I mean, you know, I'll go with this one to hire a mountain. Yeah. So I said, I didn't know. I said, I'm busy. I got 100 employees. I'm trying to make this all work.

I'm, you know, just graduate at high school. I'm trying to follow in your footsteps, sir. One day I'll be like you and smart and know how to do finances, but right now I'm just a carpet cleaner from Recita with barely the ability to keep his head above water a little did he know. So it was the ability to, so I learned accounting, and here's how I learned it by them saying to get a financial statement, you need bank statements to prove income.

They track your expenses. to the general ledger, to the trial balance, to the, and Matt, I just, for some, I got a D in accounting. Colby's like, no, I, Mr. Kalmar, my 11th grade accounting teacher, I got a D. Of course, at the very time he's given me a D, I'm perpetrating accounting fraud, but I couldn't really put that, hey, extra credit, Mr. Carmar, I'm doing this, no. So I, really, so it was more out of necessity, and I became proficient at it because I had to. Necessity. is the mother of invention, they say. But in my case, and then I was like this,

who would suspect me, guy? You know, I'm on the publicity. So another thing I exploited, you know, not proud of, but inadvertently, is the power of imputed credibility. If you're in entrepreneur magazine, heck, you must be legit because they audit your books.

So I found that media made my conversations easier in the area of convincing people of my story and my narrative and imputed credibility today on social media is used to perpetrate, you know, financial scams as well. But I learned that early on. So I had these, you know, moments where I learned how to, you know, exploit the system. Nothing I'm proud of, but it was just the way it was.

So I learned accounting. And then finally, when I'm with Mr. Vigiano and his crew, which consisted of New York to, and, you know, Francie's always jokes with me. He said, you had the California crew. I said, Michael, they were from New York. What happens when they fly over Kansas and become nonviolent or something?

I mean, come on. I said, anyway, so the public thing. So I want to go public. Why? Did you make a, you can, a ton of money. There you go. So only someone can appreciate that has been in my walking in the,

I need a cure footsteps. So here's the psychology of fraud. We want to sleep at night too. We want our kids to be proud of us. We want to be a hero. We don't want to be a crook. So we have a cure. Every crime has a cure, a way out to make it right.

It helps you sleep at night. It helps justify the next evil act. So the cure for me was, if I go public, I would get shares that I could sleep. sell that I wouldn't have to repay, no juice on that. That's equity. Pay off the mob, pay off the Ponzi and go legit. And that was the cure. So there was no cure. The cure used to be the carpet cleaning stores, but then I had like six or seven. And that wasn't working. That just increased the payroll. Yes, there was cash flow, but there was corresponding problems, expenses and telephone soliciting

cost money back then, phone bills and all that. So with cash flow came cost. So that wasn't the cure. So my first cure didn't work, but I needed one. So I honed in on that. So I remember going to Richie and Vigiano and Maurice and saying, I want to go public. They said, okay, you're 19. First step, we're going to do a reverse merger. Kind of what you saw China do with SPACs on the New York Stock Exchange, 15 billion in fraud.

You back into an already existing public company. You're immediately public with no due diligence. and they uncovered a lot of those to be fraudulent. Well, the 80s version of that was Utah, Utah Public Shell. Morning Star Investments is what we bought. And we had a crooked lawyer and a legit, nice CPA who was just naive to fraud, but a sweet guy. Right. And so he's just believing everything you get.

Correct. And he would later be one of the audits that I was able to get for 1986. That was critical for the year. Very above approach, he was both a lawyer and an accountant. So when he signed off, it was big time. But had to have the bank statements change to tie out to the, yeah. So they said, you know, do a reverse merger. We're going to buy a million shares.

You get $250, Maurice gets $250, Vigiano gets $250, and Ritchie gets $250. There are five cents a share. Hold on. This is before the merger. and it was 625 and I had to pay for the stock. I'd never forget it. I barely could.

So we all got free trading shares before we did the merger and hold them. And then we'd go public, merge. And then Maurice would make the stock go up, you know, because he had market makers. That was his background. So we do the merger. I'm 19. It hits the papers. You know, 19-year-old takes company through merger, reverse merger.

and back then, I mean, it's kind of like the equivalent to being on the Vancouver Exchange who just looked not legitimate, but there was no real free trading, there was no market for the stock, it was all hype, but at least I had substance and earnings, or so they thought. So we created, like every financial fraud must, a need when you don't make money with cash flow, that you have to either always borrow or always raise. So the white-collar crime lie about what you owe, lie about what you earn. At Z-Best, we did both. But I needed an excuse that would even fool the mob,

that would fool the auditors, that would fool Wall Street. And I'm like 19. And I'm thinking, you know, I'm looking through the yellow pages at all the carpet cleaning companies. And every one of them, and you could find one and test this. look at 84, 85, 86, every carbiclini company advertised for emergency water restoration damage. Today, they're a restoration company back then, not so much, if any. And I thought, I got an idea.

So I decided to create, solve a bunch of problems. One, a constant need to raise money is I got this new job. It's a restoration job. It's worth a million bucks. And it's always far enough way that you can't go visit, like in a Royal Grande or wherever. And because there was no internet, no instant verification. And then I would need materials for these jobs.

And then I can use the percentage of completion method of accounting with these jobs by saying it's a million dollar job. I'm going to make 400 grand. I'm 50% done. I can recognize 200 grand. So I'm getting proficient at this stuff. And then... There's not even a job.

there's just no job at all yeah dude he ruined the whole god dang i do have a question real quick if you bring the company public you backed into it you brought it public you have 250 000 shares i sold them at a buck to meet payroll while everybody else held till 18 and then they shorted on the way down and none of them got indicted i was going you're you're going public didn't solve your problem well hold on that was the first public oh tell you the story he had to like steal my time. Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Go ahead. So I'm not public yet the second time. So I'm in between and I'm creating the excuse. Now here's the thing about the Z-Best crime that everybody looks at. It's the restoration jobs. Water, fire, I said we had an assurance adjuster. The mob thought he was on the take. They didn't think the jobs weren't real.

So when my criminal defense lawyer asked me, How did they fall for this? I said, I inoculated them. He goes, what do you mean? He goes, they understand payoffs and kickbacks. I just said the guy's on kickback. Oh, okay. They never fathomed that the whole thing was fake.

Right. So I created phony contracts, cashiers checks, front and back for payments. All the check kiting was now income because auditors didn't check for income when they looked at your bank statement. You identified the deposits. What's that? Income. Oh, okay.

They would test. year expenses. I learned that early on. So I was able to get through and finally a investment banker named Randy Pace from New York called me. It was April 1986 and he had read about the merger in 85. He said, Mr. Minkar, let's meet. When are you in New York next? I want to meet you at the Manhattan Cafe. I met him there, flew to New York, and he said, I want to take you public. I really like your story. I think you'll be the McDonald's of the carpet clean industry.

Every time you open a retail store, it makes money. And these restoration jobs are good, too. And I go, what are you thinking? He goes, well, I think we can raise, you know, 18 to 20 million. You don't have to pay it back. But with that, you can probably get a loan

for like $7, $10 million from any bank once you're properly capitalized. And then, of course, you'll have your personal stock, which will be worth $100, $200 million. What am I thinking at the Manhattan Cafe in 1980s? I mean. I'm just shocked that these marks are calling you. You and I didn't have to go out and get the mark.

So here's the problem. Why are they calling? Are they stupid? No, of course it's the marketing. They believe in the whole, the hype, the whole thing. And they, and you know what? The contrary is unfathomable. Yeah.

That he could be fooling all these people, that it isn't real. It was the 80s. It was entrepreneur. It was the right time. People weren't cynical. So, of course, they believed it. So it wasn't their fault that they didn't. And it wasn't like I was some great, you know, persuader.

I just was right time, right place. So I get, you know, more credit for, I didn't fool. A lot of people wanted to believe the story. It was the Reagan 80s and business and entrepreneur and all that. So here was only one problem. I told them yes. But I had to sell it to the people that brought me public through the reverse merger because they had 750,000 chairs.

And it wasn't my call to make because the due diligence for a real public offering is the following. I have to hire a Big Ten law firm to do the prospectus. The underwriters hire a big law firm. You have to get a top eight accounting firm at the time.

There's four now, but it was Big Eight then. It was Ernstyn Winnie, not Ernst & Young we used. You had to have three years of audited financials, three years. Today, you just need a Reg D offering and raise $100 million. You don't even need to provide a financial statement as long as the guy's accredited, and you can steal as much money as you want,

and nobody can say word boo because you disclosed it somewhere. Back then, if you wanted to file an S-1 registration statement with the SEC and go public for real, you had three years audited financials requirement by NASDAQ, you had to be profitable, he had assets, and in order to get those, now I was pretty good at accounting, but three years audits. And at the time, I had a guy who helped me

and his mom and sister helped create documents. But I needed to get it approved. True story. Encino, I fly back. I call for a meet with Richie, the boss here. The mob.

And I'm at his townhome. Let me get the mob guys together. No, no, no. But he was, he always liked me. He had to remember, he was like 300 pounds and five, at nine. He was in his late 50s. He always had a cigar in his mouth and he wore boxers.

But how ridiculous is this that the 18, 19 year old is calling a meeting with the mob guys? I was calling. No, no. I was asking permission to meet. I wasn't calling anything. Yeah, I was no shot caller. So he goes, boy genius, come over. That's what he called me. Boy genius. And he goes, he was always funny, but don't take that humor for. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I'm there. And Richie's with all of his friends. and they're in his apartment and they're all like and I go in there

and he's in his boxers with a cigar in his mouth so I get in my boxers this is a true story and I get one of his cigars and he looks at me he says you're crazy kid

that's why I love you you're freaking nuts and I said I need a favor whatever you need and I told him And immediately his right-hand finance guy, Murray, said, hell no. You're not going to risk our money. You'll never pass the due diligence.

You're going to get caught. He thought not for frauds on restoration jobs, but kickbacks. Yeah, yeah. So he goes, he'll never make it. He goes, you're not going to risk my money. It's not a no. It's a hell no. And I said, Richie, I sold my $250,000 shares to meet payroll.

I'm all in. there's nothing I've told you that I haven't delivered on and I need permission to bring in Rooney Pace go public for real and get properly capitalized and I said your boy at JLB Equities I've been paying them back nobody's getting hurt

give me a chance and he said go ahead yeah you can do that I believe in you. Now, at that moment, every pressure went on me to perform and get it done. And I felt worse leaving than when I came. So calls came afterwards from different people that were there saying,

you better not. Yeah, yeah. If this goes bad, it's going to go really bad. And I never had that kind of threatening relationship with them, and now it was on. Right. All of a sudden, carpet cleaning wasn't fun. It was now that was the big boys.

So I had the Wall Street firm. I had to hire Hughes, Hubbard and Reed, huge law firm. I had to bring in accountants. I had to get three years audits and clean opinions, 84, 85, and 86. And we weren't on calendar, so 86 was doable. And the due diligence started in July. I wrote a $10,000 check to Hughes, I'm going to read. And I told my right-hand fraud guy, Mark, who actually became, you know, friends were going

through this hell together. He goes, I agree. We need to get this done because I'm sick of this stuff, kiting checks, because he would always run to banks and help me kite checks. He was the only one that knew anything was wrong. And then his mom and sister helped with phony documents, and he was paid well. It's a family. They had a white out.

You know, listen, they had a copy machine and wide out. And most people, when they get out of prison, they're on probation and they're not allowed to associate with ex-felons, whatever. Me, I wasn't allowed within 20 feet of a bottle of light out for like four years because it was too dangerous. So back in the 80th. So we got all the documents done. It was the hardest six months of my life with pressure. And we had to fly into, imagine this. We had to fly around and do what they call a road show back then.

And that's Chicago, New York, Detroit, and sell the deal. December, 1986, Z-Besco's public on Wall Street, three shares in a warrant, $12 a share. It opens. By April, those three shares were $80. $80 a share? $80 for three shares in a warrant. So about $18 a share at one point, opened it four. So I was the hero of Wall Street, the Wiz Kid, had television commercials, and Oprah.

And it all came crumbling down. I wonder, is the Oprah, is you being on Oprah? Is that available on YouTube? Yeah, it's the most of, because I, you know, you look back at your life at regrettable moments. I'm on the Oprah show. And this legitimate entrepreneur Neil Bolter owned at the time, California Closets. And good dude. Yeah.

Smart, legit. But I'm on the show. and I'm like, dude, you had 19 million in sales, I had 40 million, so I'm thinking I'm right and you're wrong. Some arrogant jerk comment. And I think that was when I jumped the shark, they say, because in April, an article came out in USA Today, Happy Birthday, Barry Minko, your stock is worth 300 million. Zibet's worth 300 million. Your stock is worth 100 million. Your stock is worth 100 million when I turned 21. So I was the youngest person because it was December of 86 in the history of American business to take a company public by an S-1 registration statement,

fully reporting, before I was allowed to drink. But the caveat to that is it was a crook, a liar, and a thief, so don't be impressed, right? Still impressed. Still a little impressive. So I got the mob. I got everybody, nobody, so April was my height, and we tried to do some other deals with Michael Milken to buy key serve and all that, but what really happened was the demise was

so quick. Think about this. April, I'm the king of the world. July 2nd, I resign in disgrace, and by January I'm in prison. How did it fold? It folded because of my arrogance. One of the things that was around in 1986 and 87 that's not around today, sadly, is investigative reporting divisions in newsroom. Perpetrators of fraud fear the unknown variable. That thing that becomes are doing that we cannot anticipate you know i would say that you cannot account for the fly in the ointment that's the problem that one thing you could this whole fraud is perfect but you just there's the problem is that one thing you cannot account for that comes in and just blows the whole thing up that that's that is my fear that's why when people say like you know would you commit fraud i'm like

you know it's my fear is i think i could put together i i know i can put together the perfect fraud my fear is the fly in the ointment, the one person who, even if they make a mistake, catch me. God forbid, they actually figure it out, like I'm done. You just can't account for that. You can account for almost everything, but not that. In Madoff, the unknown variable was the financial collapse and immediate redemptions across the board. Right.

You couldn't plan for it. In my case, it was an investigative reporter. In the case of Theranos, Elizabeth Holmes, investigative reporter at Wall Street Journal. Right. How did this? So here's what happened. There was a great reporter by the name of Daniel Axe at the time was at the L.A. Times. And in 19, he did a great story on me in 85, but I never disclosed my relationship with the mob and Jack Kattain.

And then he found out. So right before the offering, he tries to do a story hammering me. But we had disclosed in the perspective of my relationship with Ketain and that it no longer exists. And we were, you know, we just threw it out there. he was pissed at the offering, despite his article. So, and he was right, I was a crook. So months later, he does an article on the credit card overcharges. Behind WizKid lies trail of false credit card buildings.

Billings, remember the credit card fraud? That I thought was over. Well, instead of paying the people when they called, I was getting arrogant and say, go pound sand. And a couple of them went to the reporters, and little did I know. May 22nd, 1987, I go get my newspaper, and ZBest stock dropped four and a half points that day. And the rest is history.

So from May 22nd to July 2nd, it was over. Worst time of my life. Everybody now, who had given me the benefit of the doubt, believed in me, saw cracks. It's like cross-examination. Your story sounds great until a cross. Right. And when it's dissected.

So the unknown variable for me was an investigative reporter. today. Because of newsroom cuts and whatever, perpetrators of financial fraud have no perceptive detection. Law enforcement is hopelessly overwhelmed by no fault of their own. And investigative reporting because new newsrooms cut budgets is all but extinct with the noted exception of some good ones. But if I'm a perpetrator of fraud, I can cross that potential uncovering unknown variable off the list. And that's tragic. Because guys like me, and I run in the cases all of the time that if there was just an investigative reporter, this would have been a great story, but they don't exist anymore

because times have changed, and I get that. But believe me, we who perpetrate fraud, especially of the financial nature, no, there's no perception of detection, nor is there any perception of prosecution, creates the environment for fraud. I was going to say the equivalent of that is someone like CoffeeZilla, you know, But the problem with a coffee zilla is as amazing as his investigative journalism is, he's not big enough to withstand the lawsuit. So these guys that are running these massive posy schemes or these massive schemes, and he then does a two-hour, three-hour multi-part, you know, whatever video series on them, then they come in and they threaten. to sue him. And it's like, why am I doing this? Like, like, he wants to be a journalist, but he's also

like, this is a massive lawsuit. These people who are running the scam have lawyers. And what am I going to do? For me to defend this, I have to spend $100,000, maybe $200,000 to defend this if it ends up going to trial. And in the end, I just take a massive hit because there's, I can't, even my counter suit isn't going to help me. Because if I'm right, they fold. I get nothing. So they end up taking down the videos and backpedaling because they realize like I can't withstand the heat and so that so you they can actually bully their way out of these things at this point so my experience first of first of all the guy's a hero what you're a guy or you're coffee zilla coffee he's a stand up i mean he is trying to and there's you can't monetize it now uncovering fraud up until dodd frank

was as you can get sued and there's no money in it even today with dodd frank where you get the whistleblower, you wait five years, and you get threatened to be sued. So give you a case and point, to his point. N-R-I-A, guy just got sentenced last week. We were a whistleblower in the case, and it was noted in April 2021, in an article in New Jersey, and then followed up by Jacob Battlement, who's now at the journal Barron's. And I got threatened by them. In most cases, I get threatened when they find out that we've issued a report. I don't publish anymore, and I still got threatened. So in the old days when I had the Fraud Discovery Institute, I would publish, and then you

really get threatened. But as long as you're right, you win. But he's right, because you go through a great expense. If you're in the fraud uncovering business, you're not in it for profit, because even on the best days of the whistleblowing program, it's five years. plus weight, and the risk of bankruptcy, not having anything left, the way the law is written of if the action is a TRO versus a bankruptcy makes all the difference in the world, things you can't control.

But the other side is the threats. So with me, it never, I was so used to it, even before I went to prison for the insider trading, every case somebody threatened me, Rainmaker, and there's articles about it. never bother me because I felt like we were right and I just, I didn't, I didn't worry about that. Maybe I should have. To this day, I don't worry about threats because I, that's consistent with fraudulent action is silencing an intimidation. Intimidation begets fear. Fear will back you down.

Dude, I did 15 years in federal prison. I got a $600 million judgment by Lenox. are for insider trading, they never claimed I got that money, but still, I'm kind of past the whole fear thing with that. And if I not right, then I ought not to publish. But if I am right, it might help save people money so I don't back down. And I get threatened all the time. And I'm not tripping on that. Different scenario for me. But in the case of it being a monetized, monetizable, there's a new word, business model, forget. about it. And my wife even said to me in the NRAA thing, I wrote Fox, dude, Neil, I know you're

mad at me from 2010 and Lanar won't let you play with me anymore, but I called Pam Red to the producer, I said, you guys are advertising for NRAA. Are you out of your damn mind? Please read my report. Take it to legal. I wrote everybody I could that I knew at one point at Fox. I got a big yawn. And then they imploded NRAA. Now, if you're an advertiser, you're collecting revenue and you're imputing credibility to the scheme and you have been written multiple times and given reports that, hey, you might want to check this out and you do nothing. Well, there's nothing in the law that holds them. There were other people that advertised for them, not just Fox, but I had relationships there

was trying to educate, fall on deaf ears. We're getting revenue. You're an ex-con, keep it moving. Doesn't hurt my feelings. But my wife and I were talking, she goes, even if you didn't get paid, you'd do this anyway. But it starts, it gets a little costly when you have to get title report. and prove double pledging, but I work. I'm not relying upon that to meet payroll or expense.

So, so the, there's a investigative journalist that they, they run some articles, things start to go back. I mean, immediately collapse. At what point do you, like, is there, is there a moment when you think you can do some damage control and then you just, one day the Fed show up or like, they knock on your door and ask you to politely come downtown? No, no, no, no, no. First stop was where?

When the article came out that night, Richies. Now, I had made good. They had sold. What would the guy stay away from those guys? No, no, no, no. So, watch this. When the stock started dropping, his right-hand man was asking me questions. I didn't know they were shorting.

Right. Right. And they kept me close, wanted to make sure I didn't wear wire. Like, he even said in an article, when Barry would come over, we'd hug him, but it was more to make sure he wasn't wired. Right. wired. I'm trying to save this thing. I did. I tried to save it all I could. It was, you know, moot point. But I went there and they, you know, kept in touch, but they were keeping in touch because they were earning. Then when it all came apart, a month later, I get a visit saying blame it on the

dead guy, which is Ketain. He was now dead. And that's your defense, meaning you're not going to cut no deals. You're going to go to trial and blame it on the dead guy. That was exact. Joey Manjapani walks me down the street away from the house where it could be wired. and says, this is your defense. I'll never forget that day. So it was wonderful. The, uh,

so I'm 21. I'm in prison by January of 1988. Well, and I did a year in the shoe and how did that happen? I got indicted and I went for July, I resigned. Remember, we're front page, New York Times, front page,

Wall Street Journal, the great whiz kid is a fraud. Right. Well, I understand that. What I'm saying is, did the FBI stop by? Did you get a criminal defense attorney? Yes.

He said, turn yourself in. They want you to be there at 2 o'clock on Tuesday. Yeah, that was kind of a whole thing in itself. In order to get bail, one of my dear friends and somebody, I absolutely respect this guy named Don Ray. He was the guy who got DeLorean off. He did Snoops, Malik, the shooter in the murder case with Snoop.

David Kenner did Snoop. He did Malik. He's a longtime friend. Love him and respect him along with Mr. Kenner. And I didn't have Kenner at the time because it was before I went to prison. But I had hired a lawyer that was a huge mistake. But to the credit of this lawyer, he brought in Don, who I wanted. And Don's like, I'd love to represent you, but I can't step over the guy.

But I'll help you. And he says, here's what you need to do. He got wind of when the indict was going to come out, always on a Thursday. And he goes, we're going to turn you in to make it difficult for the government to argue that you shouldn't get bail. So I hit out in some hotel, and, of course, it was all over the news. Minko's wanted, fugitive, whatever. Don called the prosecutor, walked me in. I surrendered.

And the judge gave me bail, $2.1 million all cash. And by the way, the federal judge, Dicker and Trevisian, Los Angeles, now retired, is one of the, and what I had sentencing, he said, I think your testimony during trial was El Toro. poo-poo. So, I mean, I wasn't fooling him. I thought I was going to, you know, finesse my way out of a fraud. And I, you know, everybody's like, what a stand-up guy that Minko is. Four and a half-month trial. No mobsters gets indicted. And I'm like, what are they talking about? I'm doing this so I don't go to dang jail. I can talk my way out anything, right? I'm thinking. And I was doing pretty good to a cross-examination that it was over. But I wrongly got credit for being a stand-up guy when maybe I ultimately was because of the rest of my bit was easy.

This guy got 25 years, didn't roll on the mob. But that was how I did it. I did it for selfish narcissistic reasons thinking I could talk my way out of it. But with Trevezian, he actually became just this wonderful, great, he wrote a letter seven and a half years later after I got a bachelor's and a master's degree to the parole board that was under the old law, let him out. I just saw him like a year or so ago at David Kenner's 80th birthday. day. Snoop was there. I was there. Harrio was there. I mean, Bo Bennett was there. Mike was there. And

Treveigian was there with, and just a dear guy. He looks at Lisa and my wife and says, do me a favor. Keep his ass out of trouble. Can you? She goes, I'm trying. What am I going to do? You're just a great guy and didn't want any harm to me. And here was this lying little minute. He knows the mob was involved, but he knows I was a willing participant. And there is no, you know, defense for, but. We all became kind of friends after that four and a half month trial. And so that was the Z-Best debacle. Okay.

You got, you were sentenced to 25 years. And when, when you say old law, you mean that Reagan came in. They changed the guidelines. They brought in like the federal sentence guidelines. They changed the law where you used to be able to get parole. There was a federal parole. You only had to do 65% of your time. and at one, was it one third, you could go parole?

Very good if you got to be one number. So I got to be one number afterwards. And, um, there was what, 96? So I was right on the crest because my criminal activity occurred before. So I was under the old. So lucky. And the guidelines, my lawyer used to always say, Barry. The guidelines are 40 to 52 months for a first time non-vital defender.

They were. And, but you've got to have a B2 number, but I didn't get one. So you have to do a third to be eligible. But later we got the B1 or B2 number, whatever it was, that made me eligible. And my first parole hearing, they go 108 months, you got to do. And I'm like, dang, that sucks. But then the next parole hearing, they dropped it to like 88 months or something. So I got out in seven years, four months.

But I did seven years, four months. And at the time, most of it was medium security. And then at the last couple years, camp. But it was a, it was under the old law. Now, now, then over that period before the, a recent Trump thing in 2020 where they, as you know, we talked about it, that new law that they can

earn 12 days a month. Yeah. The feds had a window where they were just tough as heck. You weren't winning no appeals. It was in the mid-90s, early 2000s. You did 85%. If you got R-DAP and a three-month or six-month halfway house, it was... Yeah, you were thankful. So

you did the seven years. You got out and you went and you just started your life over again. And now everything went great from then on out. It was smooth sailing. You said, you know what? I learned my lesson. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to sell used cars. And I'm just going to kick back and I'm just going to ride this thing out. And I'm good. I'm the bad time of my life. I'm all better. Yeah. I'm all better now. I opened up Z. Better Carpet care. Did you really? I did not. Okay. I was going to say. Not even, not even Colby's felt for that one. No, he didn't.

Why did I say at the beginning, I was calling it a ZZZ carpet cleaning? Because there's four Zs. Oh, that's... So it's just pronounced Z best, right? Oh, okay. So I was just... Okay. Because I remember I was saying, I thought it was Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So my... I got out, got my second master's degree at Liberty University, which is, you know, one of the largest Christian colleges. Really enjoyed it. apologetics, theology, defending the faith, wanted to be a pastor, told guys in prison I was going

to be a pastor, so I was, and was first an associate pastor as an intern, then worked my way up, and then in 1997, March, a wonderful church in San Diego brought me on as their senior pastor, great congregation, great people, and I was there for 14 years, and during that time, I was a senior pastor. I loved the people were just better to me than I deserved. And if you want to talk about, other than my trail to my family, as we'll get into, it was at church and their leadership. What I did, how I left, the whole thing was just all bad. And again, back to can't blame the parents, can't blame the church, can't blame, just blame me. But it helped when I was in prison the second time for insider trading with the Lanar case, but related to the church stuff as well, to talk to people

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more look you think you're bad bro don't even worry about it you didn't defraud god you know what i mean so i kind of betrayed a position of trust that is like a little uh you know more severe than like being a CEO of a company i'd like robbed god so you're all right you got hope if there's hope for my sorry there's hope for you so um that did help so i'm everything's good and then i started get calls to do, you know, talks for fraud, uh, education and accounting stuff. And it's okay. I'm pastoring. No big deal. I'm sorry. I get it. What? So my first thought was, there's a, uh, there's a joke. I'm going to alter it where there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a rabbi and there's a priest. And, and they're talking

about how they divvy up the money that they collect, you know, uh, during the, during the offerings. And the rabbi says, well, the way I do it is I draw a big circle and I throw the money up and whatever lands in the circle goes to God. Whatever lands outside goes to me. And then the priest says, well, I draw a big circle too and I throw the money up and whatever lands inside the circle I keep and whatever lands outside the circle, God keeps. And then Barry said, I draw a circle too. And I throw the money up and whatever God can keep, he can catch he can keep. What a hater. Anyway, so that was like that, though. So about 2001, I started a fraud discovery institute, mainly for educational reasons, biggest mistake. Because for me, money is the equivalent of a blowchurch for a pyromaniac in a dry field of grass or whatever. It was just bad because it does something. thing that triggers a dual allegiance and a double mind or divided mind.

So here I'm pastoring. And good people warn me. The former pastor was my mentor and to this day a friend. But I couldn't be told. I said, I'm training people how to uncover fraud. That's my gift. And then somebody came to me and said, somebody I very much loved and respected, who was a dangerous.

guy, and I knew him from prison, but this was one of those guys. He said, they need you to do me a favor? I said, anything for you? What do you need? He came to the church. I said, you're trying to make a donation or something? He goes, no. And he throws something on my desk, and it was MX factors. It was a factoring that sought to give you returns of 12% a month, I mean, a quarter. And he was asked to invest 250 grand. And I go, what do you want me to do with this? And he goes, well, I want you to tell me if it's legit or not. I said, what are you talking about? Well, a little more detail.

He said, yeah, he goes, well, you teach people about how to uncover fraud. I said, yeah, I don't believe any of that stuff, though. But he goes, I need you to tell me if this is. So I thought, you know, the best way to do this is call the guy and say, bro, look, if you're running a fraud, I don't want to waste any time here. Don't take this guy's money because he will kill you if you lose his money kind of thing. So I'm looking at the thing. I'm thinking, okay, I remember doing factoring as one of the many fraudulent ways to get money

at Z-Best, and I got caught, but I remember the UCC-1s and all that, and how they worked. And so I just did a little check and see if they, you see, name of the company, you're factoring, you're going to be the lender, it's going to be a record. I searched the entire country. I couldn't find one. And I'm like, maybe it's under a different name. So I started looking. Sure enough, it's a $100 million Ponzi scheme, and we uncover it.

I write a report, and I get all this publicity. And then somebody calls me and said, I need you to check something else out. This is all within a period of 60 days. And it's financial advisory consultants, $300 million case. And I'm like, I saw right through it. It's like, boom, here's the report. I made friends with somebody at the LA office of the SEC. Still a friend to this day.

And I'm like, and then more people would call me. me check out this investment. So I'm, and I'm getting this attention, points of similarity. I'm like, I'm still pastoring, still preaching. People are still coming to the church. It's growing, but I'm getting another kind of affirmation that was like heroin. Well, are you, I mean, you know, not that this is a bash or anything, because, you know, to me, you know, no offense, I'm doing, I'm not going to do an exhaustive amount of work for nothing. I need to make a fee. Are you at least charging some kind of a fee? Yeah. And I'm just doing it because. So what is entailed in uncovering those first two cases?

Right. Sweat equity. Okay. So it wasn't like I had to invest a lot in investigators and whatever. So at the beginning and then... If you're good at something, you charge. Right. But who am I going to charge a victim who just lost a half million dollars?

Right. That's what I'm saying. I couldn't. That's why it's a tough deal to monetize proactive fraud and company. There wasn't a lot of competition. Right, right, right. Don't you think lawyers who are bright could have done this for people? They're not going to take on the liability.

They're not going to... They don't want to, you know, I'm sure there are good lawyers who would do it, but I couldn't find those. And once one case hit the newspaper, AP reported by the name of, I forget his name, Don Thompson, did the first article and forget about it. It was more people calling me. And so it was low-hanging fruit. I just looked at it and did reports and I had a template. Sometimes I'd have to pull title search. Sometimes I'd have to investigate something.

I have to interview. But very rarely did I have to lay out a whole lot of money. And so therefore, as far as I was concerned, it's worth it. I get attention and publicity, and I get to run a church, and it's a nice story, and what does it cost me? Well, later it would cost me a lot. I was just a cost. Yeah, later the cost increased, but all of a sudden, the publicity did what it always does with me in a negative way when that was the end goal, because it was just an excuse. You know, I would love to say my vote is altruistic, and that's certainly what I presented.

But you don't feel like they were altruistic to begin with? They were somewhat, I think, well, at the beginning, they were like life and death for this poor guy who was right. But, yes, there were times when I really did care. I always cared, but always, I have to be fully transparent and say, yes, I cared for real on a polygraph. But simultaneously, I cared just as much as getting the credit. Yeah, yeah.

Well, the credit's a huge benefit. Like, I get maybe, maybe it's the, it is the major. driving force, but that doesn't mean that I can't still be interested in the outcome of doing the right thing. Do I want the credit? Do I want the credibility? Do I want that, that, you know, that thrill? Of course, that's great. But trust me. Like, look, I like doing like the interviews and talking to people like, what a joke this is, right? Like, I get to talk to some guy for two or three hours that I'd talk to for free on the yard. You know, I've been doing, I've been doing, people like, oh, how long have you been doing YouTube? Two, a couple, two, three years? No, I've been doing

YouTube without the cameras for fucking 13 years. So, you know, so, but, you know, so it's great that now I get AdSense, but I still love this. And that's so for you to investigate and be like, this is clearly a fraud. That's got to be, that in and of itself has to be great. And this guy was about to pit $250,000 in. I'm sorry. I feel like he owes me something, you know, and I get he's, he's, he's that guy.

No, no, but here's the other thing. the people that were my clients, I wouldn't have, even as a crook, I couldn't ask him for a dime because they had already been beaten down. I just, not even I could do that and I was as bad as it could be, but people would come to me broken and, you know, a couple of them, there was one guy later became an investment partner with and something that didn't go right, but he was wealthy, he knew eyes wide open, we became buds, but other than that, I mean, I didn't charge. I was, like, afraid to do, you know, people got hurt. And then the Turner case was 60 Minutes undercover with the FBI in the Bahamas,

you know, ate something I was allergic to, didn't know it, ran to the bathroom with the wire. I'm like, oh, my God. So it was kind of, and then they made a movie out of it in New Zealand. You can watch it to this day on some ABC affiliate, but it was the story of his. Wait, who plays you? Some God, no, no, no, no, this is not that movie. No, no, this is a different movie. Yeah, I was in that movie, but this was another movie that, so anyway, the point is that

here, here's what your conscience does. I'm pastoring a church, I'm preaching, and people tell me I'm okay at it, and I love doing it, and it was kind of like criminal by day that nobody knew, but I could clean my conscience when I was preaching, saying, yeah, I struggle with this, and you struggle, and I really meant it. And then I'm uncovering fraud for free, and I'm at about a billion four. The letter of the SEC wrote public record, don't have to believe me, two judge cites in Miami, only verified six cases, and that was over a billion.

And there were 16. That was only the LA office knew about, because he was the only one that was going to step out for Barry Minko and a defense, you know, right? He was just a stand-up dude. But who else uncovers a billion plus in fraud for free, essentially, and with the FBI and have all these connections, and I'm involved in, like, can you do an open on this? Can I have a phone that's a recorder even which you don't turn it on for this meeting? Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

So I enjoyed being trusted based on where I was in the past. So there was that, there was this respect thing, there was the media, there were people of the congregation who saw my dual role as being good. There were others were like, it's a distraction. They were correct. And then the co-mingling and the financial, and the whole thing came, I started to get addicted to Vicodin in 2005, I think,

went to Oxy by 2008. Were you prescribed it at some point? I was prescribed Vicodin originally for, I was getting cortisone shots on my shoulder, left shoulder, because I had dislocated it. Or I know that I re-tared it, tore it, tore it, I was still weightlifting, obviously, still, yeah. And the cortisone shots, you can only get a certain amount,

and then the pain, and I wanted to train, and so I just popped pills. Well, I'm the pastor, I'm uncovering fraud. I'm entitled. See, always mad. Fraud is not done in a vacuum. It's done with a careful contemplation that my conscience is clean,

that I've justified and rationalized, everything I'm doing, so that if anything happens, I can always fall back on a well-rehearsed template excuse as to why and how important my work is and how, if you just knew my story, I'd get an out, I'd get an exception because, oh, I'm covering fraud, I'm a pastor, I have a sore shoulder I could abuse. Right. And thankfully, in 2008, 2009, when I was addicted to Oxycontinent, it wasn't fentanyl. I'd be dead.

Right. Definitely. So by 2000, you know, that time frame, I'm filming the movie, I'm uncovering fraud, I'm fighting Lanar, I'm doing public companies that I swore I'd never do, shorting stocks, publishing. It was all bad. So it went from private investment fraud, no money, to somebody coming to me from a hedge fund and saying, why don't you just translate that and make some damn money? And I thought, here. And I went to uncovering fraud and what I thought would be, obvious frauds on Wall Street and went after companies. And for the most part, the courts vindicated me. But in the case of Lanar, I got hammered, ran up against the wrong company. So basically, you're going in, you investigate a company, you realize, okay, these are some major issues. Nobody knows about it.

And if we write an article about it, then that's going to expose it. And their stock's going to drop. And then so you buy this, or you short the stock. Right. and then they release the article, which is true. Yeah, and it's a publicer. Yeah. So I did things like, there are things that hadn't been done before that only a criminal

mind would think of. I think they're lying on their resumes. So you can Google how many people resigned when I found out they lied about their resume, educational degrees. So there was an article said, don't get Mink code. Right. Okay, everybody. And then the other side.

I like that. Don't get Mink code, which meant, well, I also looked at other things that. But, oh, if you were a vitamin company, you were public, I tested your stuff. You had lead in it, oh, Prop 65 in California. Your biggest market is real strict on lead. And I nailed, you know, a company on, well, two accredited labs a year. Lead is like way too high. They quickly settle or whatever.

I can't talk about details, whatever, but yeah. So I did things that, you know, hadn't been, we're not Orthodox at the time for short sellers. Right. And then, of course, when I got busted with the Lenar things, did things across the line, hacking and other computers, you know, all bad. Yeah. So, I'm guilty of as charged. So I did cross the line, but I tried to be as innovative and go after and then, you know,

think of things that I would do if I were a crook. And if you have a fraudulent business model in your public company and you're using the imputed credibility of Wall Street to impute credibility to your scam, then you're not lying compartmentalized. It's going to show up somewhere else. to my job? Where is it going to show? Where is that showing up? So when I help law enforcement today or people today, they'll come for a perspective that normally and regularly the average person doesn't have. They want somebody to say, okay, if this is true, then where do we look? And it's

not like they don't know where to look. It's just they don't know how to look at a particular area of what would be exploited and for reasons why, you know, whatever. So the point, was I experienced success, hedge funds were calling me, I was popular, I was on OxyCon, I was having an affair outside of my marriage, so living a double life. I was in every way betraying God, I mean Matt, he just don't know. I don't think I woke up a day and didn't commit like 22 felonies. I mean, it was just, and I'm pastoring a church. And I remember thinking to myself in a moment of clarity that when I came back from the U.S. Attorney's Office in February 2011, that's when I knew it was over, because I thought that they were going to say, we need your help with Lenar. We got your report.

They said, you're the crook. Lenar had home-coded advantage in Miami. They convinced the prosecutor that I was insider trading, how they got that information. You don't even want to know. Some law firm actually betrayed me, but I let it go because I still was guilty. I traded in somebody else's name. I was guilty, and I was coming back knowing it was over. And I thought to myself that I just don't feel like I can come back from this one.

I've been given a chance. I squandered my opportunity. I had it all. And my eight-year-old boys, seven-year-old boys, twins, my wife, are about to find out that daddy and my crook, still, living a double life, con man, drug addict. That was never in the cards before with me. And everything, it wasn't like Zepath.

Zepest was like, I was involved with the mob. I was the first time offended. Everybody was like, you went to try. And, okay, every 20-year-old makes a mistake. But the second time, even though I was out for 16 years, even though the feds didn't hold my first defense against me, because I had been out over 15, federal rules of criminal city, yeah, but we all knew. And I had it all, great congregation.

They were terrific to me, the people, everyone. Most, even when I went to prison and got out, have forgiven and been great. few haven't and not tripping but that was a moment where I thought not even I well in the first case I can talk my way out of this I had no plan I was like it's over I I know the god of a second chance but I don't know if there's a god of another chance okay and and then facing everybody and the kids and hey we're moving to Tennessee I felt that was the best thing to do because I needed to get away from San Diego and all the publicity when I resigned. So I do have a question real quick.

You short a stock because you know the company's CEO and a couple executive officer or a couple officers have lied on their resume. As an example. Yeah, as an example. And so you then have this guy write an article and then you make money when the stock drops. You've shorted it. So legit. Like, why is that illegal?

Because what I did was, I did that, but I also, in the Lanar case, found out that there was a criminal investigation at the time, which was going nowhere. Because in 2009, 2010, I think every builder was under some kind of, you know, because of it, you know. Yeah, yeah, because of the financial process. Yeah, yeah. But I took that information I got from an FBI agent, opened an account in somebody else's name, traded on that information, and actually lost money. to which the U.S. attorney said, just because you're a lousy trader, doesn't mean you're not guilty.

Right. And they had me. And they were right. So they said, here's two ways we can play this, Mr. Minko. You can walk out of here and not take our deal. And you know what the guidelines are in $600 million?

I said, I didn't get $0.600. And he goes, no, no. You caused Lenar's stock to drop two points. That's $600 million in market value, even though it recovered. We're going to charge you $6. You know what the guidelines are on that? life. So we'll come to your church one Sunday six months from now while you're preaching.

There'll be no bail and you'll never see the light of day or you can sign this five-year deal for insider trading. I said, where do I sign? Why didn't you start with that? Yeah. Where do I sign? There were no co-defendants. Oh, you know, not like I'm some stand-up guy again that I didn't tell on anybody. I was culpable myself. There was nobody but me that I took responsibility for that. And then I also confessed to commingling funds and tax fraud, which I got another five for, no co-defendants. So it was 10 total, and I was, went in in September 2011

and got out December 2018. I left my sons when they were eight years old. I came back, they were in ninth grade. My wife left her as wife. She divorced me when she found out, I confessed her of the affair. to divorce me but never remarried or anything like that and um she's still visited me so we kept still in touch with my family and we um remarried in october november 2019 and who who was your and michael francis was my best man like he was in 2002 twice right that's that's pretty cool

yeah a good guy dear friend um Wow, that is, that's interesting because I remember on the phone you had said Michael Franzis was my best man twice. I didn't realize it was this you remarried. So here's what Lisa's position was, and I can't speak for her, but I will say she's absolutely an amazing woman and I love her very much. Obviously, God brought our family together and it's, listen, anybody who tries to paint with a big brush over the day. devastating consequences that a man does to his wife and children when he goes into prison is not doing justice to helping that person contemplating crime not do it because, yeah, God brought my family together and it all sounds such, that's not the way it is. It has been

extremely difficult regaining trust. It has been extremely difficult dealing with things and habits that occurred when you weren't there. Not me who originated this saying, but I believe it. Prison is like dying with your eyes open. You see what's going on and you can't do anything about it. Now, here's the problem. You wish you were there. Well, now you get home. And you're 55, 56, I'll be 58 in a month. And you got to make up financially for lost time because they're depending on you. So now you're not there again for another reason. Now, they are for you. They know you're trying to support. You're helping others. It's different than prison. But the irony of prison is in order to make up for prison, especially if you're older like me, 50s, you got to work your ass off. You've got to

bring it seven days a week, and you got to, but you still got to love your kids and love your wife. I was never good at that. I mean, you want to talk about an emotional cripple. I mean, my kids are the ones say, Dad, you are like emotionally, just you are, we love you, you are a machine. Dad, emotionally, you need some serious help, and here's why. When you're celebrating Father's Day, I didn't say Christmas, I didn't say New Year's, for a reason, I didn't say Thanksgiving when all the big meals. The most difficult day for a man in prison is Father's Day, because that's the day, and I used to of John Woodfield as a pastor was my mentor at Lexington and just helped me through this immensely.

This time, second time was way harder because of this. Father's Day is a reminder that your kids are growing up without you and all those influences in the culture and you're not there to protect and to provide and to love and to nurture. And you're selfish, in my case narcissistic, my case behavior, is leading to their demise, not, you know, my wound self-inflicted. There's not. So there's consequences. So for me, in order to make it through that, I just kind of had to almost shut down, Matt. I don't know how you did.

I was always the guy on the yard, ask anybody who did time with me for any length of time, start with Pastor John Whitfield in, right now he's in, gosh, New Orleans. I mean, in Louisiana, Baptist Church. And a great guy, he'll tell you. I always tried to be there for people or others. Help them with their problems.

But it was a coping mechanism, so I wouldn't have to deal with mine. It was almost selfish. And mine, in order to cope, because I couldn't fix it, I just shut it down. Well, that's fine. It works. And you'll make it through the Father's Day. And guys in prison say, dude, help me, wrote my motion, was always up to eat and pie. But you go home, and you have that embedded that, okay, I got to, I can't, I got to make it through.

I got to be strong, I got to not feel. And so my kids are the ones early on that that checked me on that and still do and they're great and my wife as well. But when you have to make it through those father's days, you are naive to think that it doesn't have an impact emotionally, mentally, and certainly in your interpersonal relationships when tragedy occurs. So I went through the motions, but I realized when I got out of prison, bang, dude, you've got to, you kind of listen to these kids when they're hurting and not say, man up, dude, come on, man, we can do this, and let's just go. That ain't, that may cut it, you know, in Lexington or cut it in Englewood or cut it in MCC, San Diego, but not with Robert and Dylan and Lisa.

So it is a constant battle. Do we go to church? Do we love the Lord? All that's true. But this time, I don't think faking it's an option emotionally. Yeah, I was going to say the first time you went to prison, you didn't have a wife and kids. No. So you're so much better off. The guys that, well, I know guys that broke up with like their fiancés, broke up with their like, like, well, I'm going, I'm doing five years. I can't. I'm not going to be that guy on the phone and on Saturday morning going, why didn't you answer the phone? what and like being in a relationship with a guy in prison is so overwhelmingly one-sided

it's it's horrific for both people for the guy in prison i can't do anything but call you up and say put money on my books mail me in this magazine call jimmy and tell him this uh get me that like i can do nothing for you you know i can say i love you i can say oh that's horrible honey i get but there's there's it's horrible so the person outside is just that they're almost they almost become an employee and it's just a horrific relationship for both parties you feel you know because as a man you want to provide you can't do shit you're just stuck in there it's it's a horrible for you and it's horrible for them because this guy every time the phone rings it's a fucking do this do this do this oh just it's like i didn't want to answer the

phone i get it drives such a wedge between a relationship and then you get out and you see the devastating consequences of your absence and its impact on on your wife who is trying to make twins and and you know provide and her job and her issues that she struggles with and the boys being raised because mom worked all day you remember goodfellas yeah I do when he got out and they're living in a one bedroom or they're living like an efficiency and in the girls are in bunk beds and I remember thinking like that's accurate she's struggling to hold it together And he walks out, he's like, the look on his face, when he walks in, it's like, oh, no, we're getting, we're getting out of here. Like, he's, he didn't, I guess maybe he didn't realize it, whatever, because all he can do for her is bring me this, bring me that, you know, it's, it's, yeah, you, it's rough, it's rough on women that, that have to try and stay with someone or, or even if they don't stay with them, just to try and now I'm supposed to raise, what, two, three kids? Right. And so to your point, let me tell you how self-deceived I was or we men can be, and I can only speak for me.

We can compartmentalize deception and live with it. We have to if we're perpetrating a fraud. That fraud stuff is temporary, got a cure, but I'm really this good guy. But here's the self, most of my wounds, all my wounds that are material adversely impacted my life are self-inflicted. drugs, steroids, criminal activity, I have no one to blame. Wish I could. All self-inflicted wounds. Now, how? Well, perfect example. When I was in the mob, I had this one mobster who taught me about a Kumade, and I said, well, we're all married, but we all have girlfriends. I said, really? And the most coveted attributes, in the mob is loyalty. They never see, nor did I.

I, the most, you go to any guy in the yard in any prison, I respect loyalty, and I cheated on my wife or whatever. And there's no inconsistency there. They could say that simultaneously have an affair on,

for better, for worse, for keeps, under oath, the woman of your, the mother of your kids, whatever, and I fell into the same self-deception, nobody to blame. We have the ability to live such compartmentalized deceptive lives

that we could literally look you in the eye and say, you're not loyal, I'm going to not talk to you anymore while we're having an affair. I could sit there and counsel somebody on drugs while popping in oxycontin or being addicted to pornography, you know, and, you know, in Christianity, sometimes the fraud uncoverer mentality and the Christian counselor together. So I had a couple in front of me, and she's complaining that he's drinking.

And I thought to myself, honey, if I was married to you, I'd drink too. But she's talking, and he's addicted to pornography and whatever. And he's like, well, yeah, I struggle with that. And he was one of those vocal outpouring guys against homosexuality. And I know what the Bible says about. that and I preach the word, no problem. But here's the problem that the world looks kind of at compartmentalized deception is what's the number one, but we all know. I'm just kidding, you wouldn't know. Number one downloaded pornography for males. Now, women watch it

too, but it's... Girl on girl. That's right. Action. Okay. So I'm a Christian, and they say, I guess Barnett, he's to believed 50 to 70 percent struggle with that addiction, but we don't talk about it. But the world loses respect for us because while we're condemning homosexuality, whatever, and whatever, we're secretly addicted to girl-and-girl pornography, and we don't see a thing wrong with it. So what I'm just saying is, in my life, I was able to look at somebody and live in a completely double life without missing a beat. And that is dangerous. And you know you're in trouble when. Back to Z-Best, I'm 21.

I have my birthday. Scott Bayo comes over. Heather Lockler lives down the street with Tommy Lee. It was a surprise party. I went into every room and thought to myself, because I had a huge 5,000-square-foot house, Z at the bottom of the pool. And there wasn't anybody in any room

wasn't on the payroll directly or indirectly. Right. So it's going to end as it began. The people who were there are getting paid. Now, I had a girl and my best friend, and although I ended up testifying against, me in trial, but David Ketter, after 57 witnesses, look to me and says, is there, is your mom coming here to testify against you? What the hell, dude? So he's had it. Everybody

testified. So the point was, is, you know, I'm, right after that birthday, a guy comes over and says, I want to do some financial planning. You're worth $100 million. So I don't know. He knows somebody, so he's sitting in my living room. Great guy. Great advice. Here's when you know you're in trouble. If the person you're speaking with is giving you brilliant advice that you ought to follow, but you can't because he doesn't know the whole story. Right. He doesn't know it's a Ponzi scheme.

He doesn't know about Vigiano or Mangipani or Karavagia or Katain. He doesn't know none of it. And he's giving me this great advice thinking I'm like this legitimate person who, the press says I am, I wish I could just say, bro, I wish I could follow that advice. But if you only knew the truth, if you start to have relationships where people are giving you fantastic advice, but you can't even listen to it and you wish you could, but if you tell them the whole story, you go to prison, you got a problem. So you got out and you got home and, well, how much halfway house do you get?

Real quick. Yeah, that was, I kind of got. I don't even I think I got out in December yes five months I'm that weird I got out December and I was off by June so whatever yeah so you have like five months and you were out and you were just starting to put things back together and what COVID like I was literally out like six months yeah no no I had a little better timing that I worked it during halfway house as you know you have a job I worked as a dishwasher at Islands restaurant in Sherman Oaks and the guy's like, I'm taking Robert, my son to lunch,

first lunch we've had in eight years. Where is? What state? Did you get out there? L.A., yeah. Well, you said when you went in, you had said you'd moved everybody. Yeah, but they relocated, but they moved to L.A., probably like my fourth year in,

and we all moved back to L.A. where my family was. So I go to Island's restaurant, and they have a position open. I'm thinking, I can, so I go to the manager, and he goes, I go, you got a job, a bit of a dishwasher. I'd like to apply. He goes, you got an experience. I said, dude. When the USP was locked down at Atwater, I was the pots and pans guy.

And I did it in record time. He looked at me and just said, you're hired, dude. So I was pots. No, I was dishwasher at Islands. And then when I got out of the halfway house, I started in another job. Hope of the Valley was a rescue mission for the homeless. Back in, you know, good organization, actually, that tried to help people. the president, Ken was believer and gave me a job.

I was grateful. I also did some sports cards for a company. But what was interesting was getting the family back together. So out of the halfway else, I rented a two-bedroom, one bath apartment in North Hollywood. My sister had a co-sino. And we're together as a family, Lisa, me, Robert, Dylan, and we're rebuilding. And again, went to the how it wasn't easy, but quickly you discover. that you got bills to pay, rent to pay,

and all of a sudden the prison life of stand-up count at four o'clock, we'll feed you, commissary, and all that, you're on. You know, this is what you've been dreaming of in prison, wishing for. Now it's time to execute, and I often stumble over execution at times. So I, um, while I was at working at the homeless shelter, excuse me, for Hope of the Valley, COVID hits and I had been there

about a year, love the job and they asked me to be a manager of an emergency shelter in North Hollywood. And it was during that time that I saw my first fraud it was like 2020 early and I started writing about the NRAA

because I always seen it on TV, real estate deal. You saw it your first thought. I saw it on TV being advertised. It was like I was like 18 to 21% to hear it on the radio. They were advertising everywhere and I thought this ain't right. So I called a reporter I knew and he goes,

bear, I'm not with Dow Jones anymore, but I think you got a good story, but you're on your own. Right. I'm like, darn, I forgot all my contacts, eight years old, right? So long story short, do a 300 page report,

400 page report when you count addendum submitted to the SEC. And within, you know, a couple months they call me and say, we need your permission to share your information with the FBI. And I'm thinking, wow. So that was my first case.

And then I, 14 cases later, four have been shut down. And so I do the proactive fraud uncovering. And then since that time, the government came to get some help on a particular, a couple particular issues, which I'm happy to help with and grateful to have the credibility. And they said, listen, you know, here's the way we look at your situation. With everything that happened in 2020 with, you know, you can burn down Macy's or Taco Bell, whatever. You did your time. You did two first time non-vital defense, technically. You got seven and a half years on both. Your kids grew up without you. You did your time. You're paying your restitution. We're not tripping. We think you have value and as evidenced by the cases you have reported. So I remember my judge and judge cites when I was getting sentenced to 2011 on the Lanar case saying to me, listen, it's rare that the, you know, SEC will prosecute for insider trading and then the other SEC will compliment you on all the cases you've uncovered.

Right. Mr. Mika, you clearly have an act. Stay away from public companies. Right. When you get out, there'll be plenty of fraud. Do something right for nothing. For the first time in your sorry life, what kind of thing, right? And she was great.

And she was right. So I got out and started doing that as well. One of the things, Matt, that was interesting with my boys, that was the challenge. They're 15. They're in ninth grade. want to live in North Hollywood because all their friends are there. I'm not particularly crazy about it, but I'll do whatever they say because I love them and I want to rebuild relationship with them with Lisa. And in January 1, 2019, when I tell the boys, I'm still

doing dishes. I said, Dad's going back on his diet because I don't know about you. When I was in the halfway house, I gained like a thousand pounds because we ate everything because we couldn't eat anything for seven and a year. Because it was delicious. I mean, Our professional jobs, we'd take our money and buy food every night. A bunch of friends still close to. Big homie, we would eat. And all of a sudden, I'm 242, but I carried it well because I was always muscular. But, you know, I certainly didn't look good.

But January 1, 2019, I tell my boys, dad's going on a diet. Yeah, sure, dad. Whatever. Whatever. But I said, no, no. And we're going to work out. I want you guys to join me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Here's what helped me with my boys, almost as much as taking them to church and being home every night at 4 or 5 o'clock, predictable wherever I was at any time. I was, they started to work out with me. They saw me, I had a cheat day. I didn't, it was on Sunday. If it wasn't Sunday, you wouldn't find a cookie in my mouth ever. I stopped eating at 2 o'clock. If it was 205, even if it was low carb, I wasn't eating it.

I was institutionalized with the diet. Now, good friend of mine said to me, Damien Law, who's a pastor now, African-American man out of Oakland, he was someone, went to Liberty, he's a dear friend and a mentee, mentor relationship. And he said, Barry, you do great in prison. You never got a shot in 15 years. You got like 52 degrees, including a doctorate earned. And he said, I want you to take.

prison home with you before I left. Not the institutionalization, but the structure, because you thrive, stay in the structure without the institutionalization. Great advice. Matt, I was a machine with the diet, and guess what it did? My boys thought, when my dad says something now, he actually follows through. Right. He even over, you say, oh, over exercise and eating, it'll kill you today. I mean, diabetes and most physical ailments, many, not all are self-inflicted from bad diet and not exercise. Well, you know the deal. You're in great shape, so you obviously are mindful of that. Matt, I was wrapping my son's knees for squats. I remember in Inglewood, it was 10 degrees Saturday morning. Trouble me and Fred, they're around to the state. You could check

it out. They were on the yard at Lexington every Saturday morning, 6 a.m. squat rack. And I used to say, Lord, I just pray that one day I'll be able to, you know, do legs on Saturdays with my sons. And here I was, wrapping their knees at a 24-hour fitness. And they were drinking protein shakes. And they started to do what they did when I left. You got to remember, here's Barry. This is what Lisa and Robert and Dylan had to put up with. Barry, the famous fraud-uncover, movie, senior pastor, everybody loves them to the biggest loser of all time. Right. Now, you're getting the shrapnel of that.

So now my boys are like, my dad does what he says. And this is consistent. So the reason, not just the physical benefits, emotional, benefits of training and exercise, but it won back my kids to this day. my kids will not see me eat something on a non-cheat day that I it's just wait my wife the same oh no he drinks more than he drinks you know his protein shakes with his nitric acid nitric uh whatever it is nitric oxide and uh his collagen and his egg white protein and his uh which tastes a lot better than it did in the 80s and his uh you know a weigh protein after and then

he's his vitamins and then is you know it just it is what it is but it helped win my kids kids back. We worked out together. Dylan's still works out to this day. Robert hurt his armor. He would be two. And it was that thing. And it was, and it helped. It was a foundation. That in church, that in trying to be, but falling at times, the father that they need. So when it came to COVID, met a doc who was doing telemed. What's that? Telemed is like, you can do your medicine. Oh, telemed. Tell him it, yeah.

We became friends. He had done time 25 years before, but he overcame it. And he was my nurse practitioner or whatever license to prescribe great guy. And he's like, you know, not a lot of guys over 50 look like you. I'm just saying, you know, because I always told him and he would laugh that there are points of similarity between men physiologically with their fat stomachs. and financial fraud, he goes, come on. I said, well, watch. You wear clothes two sizes too big when you're my age.

Why? Hey, cover up the stomach. You don't take your shirt off. It's the underbelly of men is their underbelly, right? So we hide it, we can seal it. We can't see our toes. We can't sit up straight in bed. We can't do, can't clip our toenails, but it's okay.

And that has been linked unequivocally to high blood pressure. your diabetes, self-inflicted wounds. And here's what I said. Today more than ever, I don't care what your political views are. I don't do politics. But you need to be in the best physical shape and mental acumen because things can change on a dime. And if you're not prepared, so it's kind of a wake-up call.

So we have just created the It's Your Stomach Program where, guys, we know what the fraud is, the stomach, we're here to help. We ain't better. What's it called? It's your stomach. Your stomach. Okay. And the reason it's called it's your stomach because men.

What? It's your stomach. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You say so quick, it sounds like another word. We started the program because it's the physiological fraud equivalent of financial fraud. Men lie about it. Oh, I'll get to it later. Dude, I got guys that I see in the gym, I got nothing but respect for.

They work out two hours a day. Their chest is big. Their arms is big, bigger, and their stomach is bigger. I'm like, dude, is the pizza that good? I mean, no disrespect, because I ain't no better. But, man, you're busting your butt in a gym for a stomach. Mike O'Hern was in my movie. Best in-shaped guy, by far for my age group.

Nobody's even close. His wife, Mona, great, great guy. And you know what he says? When you're over 50, 80% of it. 80% is diet. Yeah. No, no. So you can't out exercise bad eating. Nobody gets that. Oh, I worked out. I don't care what you do.

Well, my, Matt, I don't care what you. Bro, I'm just real selfish, Matt. I'm not going to go put an hour, two hours, one, two, well, let's say an hour, four or five days a week, and then have a Twinkie that's going to ruin it all every night or ice cream or pizza, whatever your thing is. everybody's on a diet until the wife orders a pepperoni pizza at 8 o'clock at night kind of thing there comes a time in your life where you say i'm not 20 anymore okay so i'm unhealthy and here's what we say we are not judging not tripping we don't have a diet for you we got kind of like the rob low plan i call it because it's a lifestyle low carb foods today you couldn't do this five years ago they are freaking amazing in terms of ice cream tastes like real ice cream so it's not you can't have this. No, you can't have this, but have this instead. Yogurt's, like, unbelievable,

fresh blueberries in there. Cereals. Just things that, chips. I got those Quest chips that are extra hot, 20 grams of protein. They taste great. I like spicy chips. You can even have some guacamole and you get a day off. The four-hour body guy, I love him. I forget his name. And he has a cheat day. He says, you always got to have a cheat day. And he calls it a slow carb diet. We call it just, you know, lifestyle, no diet, because it has no beginning, middle, or end. It's, we want to help you transition into something you're going to be surprised. You're not even going to barely feel because the foods are so technologically advanced and good. Nature's own bread. You walk into Albertsins or vons or else, you buy a pet.

It's like wonder bread. It's just as good. Just no carbs. So technology has really helped the food industry in the low carb world to make it doable as a lifestyle. And you still get a cheat day. So eight hours, one, One day a week, there's a window. Have whatever you want. Why? One, your body doesn't starve. It tricks your body into staying metabolism, and it helps you satisfy the cravings, and

you can last. On the training side, start very slow. Number one, for guys over it, don't get injured. Take it slow. If you're not leaving for the first six months, wanting to do more, thinking you can do more, then you get the wrong trainer. Because the number one thing with our old ass is not to get injured. I am so freaked out about anybody getting injured by doing too much too quickly.

So let's get the bone density and tendon strength. Let's get the supplementation. Let's make it something you can live with. Not a crash. I'm going to lose 40 pounds. So it's a lifestyle. So we have the It's your stomach program and it just has the nutrition program and the training program. And that's it.

It's 90 days kickstart. And here's what we do. Just for a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash Brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Long-bendy Twizzlers candy keeps the fun going.

Keep the fun going. And two weeks in, you're going to quit. You know why? Because 82 people look better than you. Guess what? 92 people look better than me. And I'm like, the guy here. There's always someone, you know, in prison, Matt,

what I learned in Lexington the second time, and I was on every steroid when I went in thinking I was, guys are big and strong and fast. I'm great, wonderful. I'm not in competition with them. Right. My job is my blood pressure. I want to be there for my kids.

want to be ready for whatever happens emotionally, spiritually, physically, and we're not. We've kind of like, like guys my age that are like busters, 64 to 72, we've like thrown to the tower. We're like, we're ready for retirement. We're going to coast. No, this world isn't like it was 25. You've got to be ready, and we want a wake-up call is, there's a way to get ready. If you failed everything, every diet, everything, you're our perfect guy or gal, and here's why.

Because it ain't about failing. We're about like slow, long, time. play, marathon, not sprint. We're going to get you there. And the good news is you're going to start feeling better within the first 30 days. It's going to be, you can do it. And guess who's watching? Your sons, you just got out of prison, your wife, everybody who's watched you fail before and lie about a diet and boast. You don't boast. You say, yeah, I'm trying this training and trying this nutrition program. It's not a beginning, middle, and an end. I'm trying to flip the script on lifestyle. And it would appear that technology has made that so much easier. Have you tried

this ice cream? Enlightened ice cream, for example. Unbelievable. I mean, couldn't do it before and in prison. It was tuna and mackerel. And if you could do that. Yeah, I was going to say, it's like my wife and I go to the gym, like, and, you know, I don't, I don't do anything heavy. Like, I just go through, because I can't pull anything. You know, like, I'm too old to recover. what I would what you were to cover for in five weeks or four weeks when you were 18 it'd be 18 months if you're lucky to recover at all and the other thing is I was going to say like we you know we'll do we'll get on the the um there's I always call them steppers but stairmaster it's the oh yeah I know it should but yeah but that's good could no impact right so

exactly tendons and joy right and so you know even if you do 50 if you do 10 or 15 or 20 minutes it's like my problem with it is like look I'm not trying to to run a marathon, but at my age, like, I can't have a stroke. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can't be, like, I got out of prison. I have to work, be able to work until I'm at least 65 or 70, so I can have a chance at retiring because I started. In good health.

Yeah, in good health, but six million in the whole, and I have no retirement. And what is social, what's social security going to do to me? Not a thing. Social security is designed for people that have a house that's paid off. how am I paying off a house? I don't even own a house. Like, you know, I'm going to pay off a 30-year mortgage in 10 years. That's not, I'm not going to be able to do that.

So, you know, I'm going to have to know that I have to work a little bit extra, a little bit harder, a little bit. And you've got to be ready. And the thing is, like, listen, my wife and I, like, I can't, I can't sleep past like 4 o'clock. I wake up at 4 o'clock every, you know, that's when the guards turn the lights on. So, you know, we wake up and I lay there and I play on my phone until until she rolls over it, you know, 420 and she's like oh my god like you know she's like are we going to the gym i'm like and then we talk about all the reasons we can justify not going to the gym for the next 30 minutes laying in bed and then finally she rolls out of bed goes and gets coffee and we end up at the gym at six o'clock

we go through the motions even if you're not going to go heavy it's like you know i'm just not going heavy i'm not going to you know i'm even if you have to lower it a little bit just go through the motions and that's the whole thing we sometimes you know sometimes i'm i'm doing pull downs at 170 and sometimes it's 160 you know what I mean like sometimes it which makes in pounds is a huge difference with well especially for you don't weigh my yeah I weigh 70 right you're saying so I'm my body weight but sometimes there's still like I listen I'm tired I can't do it but going getting there and just going through the motions is so it it's better than not going there at all well exactly so there's no one workout that's going to make or break in if you just show up it's kind of like you're

right you've got to show up but we've gone and done three exercises and left. It's fine. But we went. Right. And your consistency pays off. Not one. I'd rather you do that four times a week than one great workout.

You're much better the way you just said it. So two things. One, you mentioned injury. So how embarrassing is this? When you're old like me, things happen like with no explanation. For example, I, Lisa's like, what's wrong with your neck? I said, I think I twisted it. She goes, were you squatting 400 pounds?

Did you go hunting? Were you playing tackle football? I said, no, I yawned. Yeah. No, I put on my shoe. I freaking yawned. And that's what happens when you're old. So I yawned.

This has happened. What? I tried to put my socks on. And the, it's crazy. And then your point about, it's VO2, you know, your cardio is critical. Right. But so is your bone density, tendon strength, and muscle mass. because the nursing, I always do the nursing home test.

If you can't get on and off the toilet, it's over. They put you in one. So I do squats. Yeah. I mean, I don't do 400 with Fred in trouble in the yard at Lexington and lived or regret the times I did because of the, you know, arthritis in the left knee, but it's still do them and wrap and put a weight belt on because I picture that.

So we, you want to talk about. a full, you know, the story just comes back to self-inflicted wounds. My story, no matter what, is self-inflicted wounds. When I go out and look at the world today, it's not that I do the fraud minute or proactive fraud education. I'm begging people not to follow my footsteps. I mean, I did 15 years, so you don't have to, bro. Don't do it. I mean, you think you're, don't you think that everybody thought I know.

every Ponzi scheme that it's 100% guaranteed is going to fail, but not mine. Right. It's like we, self-deception, so I'm just trying to save you from that decision that's going to devastate lives, including your own. The other side is on the product of fraud uncovering, I'm looking at myself in the mirror most of the time. And the reason I have a competitive advantage in uncovering fraud and people have come is because I just, the dude's me, if I see you on a video or whatever and I see,

see me and you like equating you're only as good as what you do not who you are and Christ or as a believer I'm like I'm scared I mean because that was that right equals forward motion got me prison twice and then I look at self-destructed and physical I mean I get it I struggle with addiction of every kind including food porn or drugs I get it I'm one of you you're my people I I love what you do why you're my people I ain't trying to reach the dude who thinks, once a con, always a con. As one FBI agent once said to me, he goes,

the reason I believe you is you did your time and you're not running an investment company. The minute you run an investment company, I'm going to investigate your ass. But it's a good point. We've done our time. You're not asking for money for some real estate deal, and I'm not asking for Z better working capital.

Okay, so you can believe what you want. But you're not my people anyway. My people are two-time losers, three-time losers, addicts, people who are struggling, people who can't push themselves away from a buffet table. You're my people. You're self-destructive. You make bad decisions. I'm with you. I'm not past you. I'm right there with you, feeling your pain, understanding, and grateful for the mercy and grace I found in my relationship with God who gave me another chance. Not a second chance. I remember Pastor John Whitfield said um and it's Mississippi that his church is in I said New Orleans because I was

thinking a nap so it's Mississippi forgive me uh pastor Whitfield who you can call him to this day said uh Barry you don't need the God of a second chance he need the God of another chance and everybody who's listening right now if they're honest they've blown past second long time ago they just think yet maybe right and you do this you reach people I'll never reach and I'm a huge fan. I, you're my people, man. I mean, I watch you come back and use your talents. Yeah, I just took what I did on the yard and I interview people. And I'm listening to your seven-hour interview. Driving from Tucson were some lawyer I had to deal with and said, look, you. Anyway, and just riveted. And I'm not the only one who's been caught on a, you know, I-10.

or it's equivalent listening to your story so I'm grateful for what you've done and I love everybody's like well what about all these inmates who now have

podcasts I think it's freaking great what about those who are this way I don't care I love it these are my people

I'm their biggest fan and I support them 100% I was actually going to tell you one thing this is funny I met my wife in the halfway house

I know she's 18 years younger than me Oh, that I didn't, that didn't come out in the interview. Oh, everybody knows. Well, I didn't know. But here's what's funny when we're talking about, you know, being sore. Yeah. So we got out of the halfway house, started seeing each other a few months later.

And so, you know, obviously, you know, you go out, you know, once or twice we're making out in the car. And then at some point, it's like, hey, we've got to consummate this thing. You know, we're going to, we're going to go to a motel. So we go rent a motel. I haven't had sex in, you know, whatever, 15 years, you know, know. So, so we get, oh, well, no, 14 years. So we get out, but we go to the motel. We have a great night. But the next morning, I go to, I get out of bed. And I went and I had the sharpest pain. I went, oh, wow. I'm 50. She's 32. And I went, oh, fuck. And she goes, are you okay?

And I went, yeah, I said, my hip. And she just burst out laughing. Because I realized, how that sounds, like, you know. And I was like, I go, it's not funny. She goes, oh, my God. Did you throw your hip out? She's like, oh, my God. She's like, and I was just like, stop, you know, I realized how bad it sounded.

But yeah, you know, you don't realize. Yawning. So that's my equivalent of. I like yours better, though. Yours is a little more exciting than mine. Yeah. So, yeah, it was funny. Great hat.

Hey, thanks for having. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate you coming out. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. If you like the video, do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, we're going to leave all of Barry's links in the description channel. We're going to leave all of Barry's links in the description box. You have a book, right? It's not worth reading.

All right. We're going to leave a link to the Amazon. I don't read that crap. Also, also, please do. do me a favor, consider joining my Patreon. And I really appreciate share the video to somebody that you think might enjoy it. And, you know, do the thumbs up and leave a comment. And I really appreciate you guys watching. Thank you very much. See you.