Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How Private Investigator's Actually Make Money | Heir Hunting

Episode Date: October 26, 2024

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Tickets on sale now. August 1st. So basically how it works is it was a niche market called air hunting in the private investigation of business. So what that is is if a person dies doesn't have a will, they have to recreate the family tree. Right. And then it goes according to what's called the law of sanguinity, sanguine meaning blood, law of blood. And if there was a will and the attorney couldn't find the beneficiary, because they're not incentivized to spend money to go look for them, right? So they would file it and it would say, you know, address unknown or heirs unknown. Well, that would be a case for us, right? There was only two companies in the. in the in the in the in the in the the nation that were national companies there's one or two regional companies and the rest were kind of what we call correspondence where if they found something they would give it to us and then we would run with it and you know they we'd pay them out

eventually a commission the the premise is let's say I come to you I said Mr. Cox we believe that you're an heir to an estate we believe that your right to that estate is not being represented court. The court doesn't know about you. We'd like to make sure that that happens. By signing this agreement, it's a two-paragraph thing. It's basically a contingency agreement. And it says if we collect nothing, you get nothing. And you don't owe us anything. So we put all the risk up front. But if we do collect, we get, and the percentages depended on the size of what we think you were going to get. If you're going to get $50,000, we'll take 25%, 20%, 30%, whatever we can get away with. But if it's $2 million, we'd go down to 5% or 2%, right? Just to not show that we're that greedy, but

it's all relative. So I would come up to you and say, Mr. Cox, we believe that you're an heir to an estate. You're not being represented. By signing this agreement, you're allowing us to represent you by hiring an attorney at our expense to submit your name and address and how you are entitled to this estate or a portion of this estate. And that's it. We're a better business bureau. We've been around for 100 years. A company that I was with had been around at that time, about 110 years. The other company, interestingly enough, was run by Mormons, who had a lot of genealogical resources at their, at their fingertips, as you might imagine. And then you sign it or not. And so it was very competitive. We had a team of five.

One was in the downtown Los Angeles branch, or four. And the other three rotated every day in the branch system of the LA County Courts, the Orange County Courts, the Riverside, I'd say we were to, you know, all the courts. And we would hit them daily to look at the new files, the new probate files that were filed. And we would do things like, and we knew the competitors. They had the other side had their people in the aisle. We knew, how you doing? How you doing?

But we also, you know, once we found a file, we might not put it back in the same place. Okay. Right. And then we'd say to them two days, hey, do you see that file? And I didn't see that file in Long Beach. you know but it was a friendly rivalry and so I got stories if you're interested so one story the person that died at a sizable state north of 500,000 or 600,000 and in the will she left all of her monies to the care and upkeep of three Dobermans, not

Doberman's Rottweilers. That makes sense to me. Yeah. And she left a stipend, a monthly stipend, to the neighbor to make sure that that happened. Take him to the vet, feed them, you know. Well, apparently this neighbor thought that once the dogs died, he would be getting everything. Well, that's not how the will read it, will read that for the upkeep of these dogs, which if I were to him, I would have, I would kill the dogs, slowly poison them.

get to it quicker. But so our, our, our, our headquarter office said, had us go by that house monthly, right? There's three dogs. There's three dogs. Okay. Now there's two dogs. There's two dogs. There's two dogs.

To make sure the dogs were there. Okay. Once the dogs weren't there. And, and in the meantime, we found the errors to this lady. Because once the dogs are dead, it's basically what's called an intestate. There's, there's no will. no you can effectuate right so we found the family and we signed them up and kept him in the back burner right and we didn't file anything yet we were waiting until the last dog died so we would go to this

house monthly and these dogs are hardy it's a hearty breed they you last a long time so one of us would have to go to the house monthly and eventually after like 12 months or 18 months the last dog died and we went to the court and we filed it and then neighbor was pissed. He was getting his stipend, you know, right. But the stipend stopped. And then he tried to file paperwork. Like, okay, now I get the money. And we're like, no, you don't. The will doesn't say that. Right. He was pissed. And they sold the property because the dogs lived at the house.

They had a gardener. They had somebody come and feed him, pick up the poop, take them, you know, everything. They would live like kings. And they eventually sold the house and the value of the estate went up to like over a million dollars and the people that we signed up split it. Did you ever see? There was a documentary about this was, I want to say it was in

the UK where this woman had died and left like $400 million to her dog to keep up to keep up the estate and keep up her like German Shepherd or something. Yeah. And I never watched, I watched bits and pieces of it. I'm pretty sure at some point they replaced the dog with another dog. Like the dog died and

they replaced it. The staff. To keep getting the fee. Yeah. Yeah. That would be smart. Because like the, the dog had a full staff. He's got like six people working there. Yeah. Yeah. People are like, we got, we got, we just got to, I got to mow the yard. Like I got nobody bothering me. Yeah. I got to feed a dog. After 20 years ago, you think, okay, what's this dog made of? Hell of the dog. Yeah. So, so that's one story. That's a, that's a, that's a, that's, And I think I've seen that documentary, by the way. It's very famous in the air hunting. It's called the air hunting world, very famous.

Another story, there was a guy, somebody died. Obviously, this one. It always starts with somebody died. Every one of your stories, somebody died. And we traced the air, one of the airs. And it happened to be, and I won't use, I don't want to get personal, this, I'll try to, in generalities, he was the founder of a major sports league logo company. So, yeah, his company was in charge of jerseys and logos and hats and pennants and, you know, all the logos for this particular major league sports outfit.

So, and this is going back to the 50s. So you can imagine he's rolling in it, right? And he lives in, I won't say it, but it lived in a very, very posh part of town. So I roll up to his mansion, you know, I'm 30-something, knocking on the door. And he invites me in. And he invites me to his personal office. And I walk up these stairs and along the stairs is him with everybody, with Nixon and Ford and, you know, dignitaries.

and celebrities and all of that. And so sit down and I give him my spiel and he said, well, who's the person that died? And I said, well, sometimes we can't say who it is because it jeopardizes the rest of our work, right? Like if I tell you who it is,

you're going to around us. Yeah, right. So he says, okay, and I said, there's no risk. We take all the risk. He says, how much am I going to be getting. I sell about 80,000, 90,000, which to him is, you know, probably a drop in the bucket. Still, it's money, right? So he says, hold on a second. So he spins around, pushes one

one button on his phone. Now, his backs towards me is, he's facing this huge window that overlooks the Pacific Ocean, like gorgeous, pushes one button. It's his attorney, right? He said, hey, I got this kid. He's trying to sell me on this, blah, blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, blah. He turns around and he goes, so you can't tell me who it is? I said, unfortunately, no. And he turns around and I hear, okay, spins back around. He says, okay, I'll sign it. So he signs it. But that was cool, just to the environment that I was in. You know, this guy's, like I said, I could say which franchise or, you know, sport it is, but it's not relevant to the story, but it was he was rolling

and absolutely rolling in it he didn't need the money you know it will well millionaires and billionaires don't get to be that way because they're turning money down

that's right that's right I was somebody the other day was I we were talking and the guy was like like the guy's worth like 40 million and you know what does he care if he loses 10 grand he cares he cares nobody wants to lease 10 grand

Elon Musk doesn't want to lose 10 grand yeah if it dropped on the ground If it came out of his pocket and dropped it to the ground, he'd bend over and pick it up. Right. Or if somebody else dropped it, he'd pick it. Yeah, exactly. With elections heating up, it's time for you to get involved and make your voice heard. There's a way to support your candidate and double your cash before you even step into the voting booth. Right now, when you sign up for My Bookie, you can double your money on your first bet.

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And don't miss out on fun prop bets, like what color tie will Trump wear? Spoiler alert, it's always red. The favorites have come out on top in four of the last six elections. And as we gear up for 2024, you won't want to miss out on your chance to get in the action head over to my bookie and put in promo code cox and double your first deposit today it's the perfect way to support your side and enjoy some sports betting in the nine years that i did this it happened what i'm about to say happened about eight or nine times usually about once a year we'd roll up to somebody again somebody died we'd roll up to somebody and they were you know

going to get a portion of the estate whatever and i do my spiel and inevitably believe this would happen they would and then and and on these occasions we would say who died right because either there was only one air and he or it right and and the case is not in los angeles it's from you know kentucky and are you going to hire an attorney from kentucky to represent you no you're not are you going to go to kentucky no you're not right so we would tell them who it is we'd give them the spiel and this is what they would say man they would say i am not not taking that goddamn blood money from that fucking bastard black sheep of the family blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah they'd go off right and i'd let them you know i let them and i my response was always the same

was like listen i was i say listen listen totally get it i got people in my family like that right but here's the deal i don't get paid unless you get paid so what's your favorite charity you like dogs you got a church you got a you know what what's where's your where's your soft spot right so they go they're like oh okay yeah we'll do that so I sign them up with a stipulation that they're going to send it to the American Cancer Society right Matt what do you think happens about a month before the probate judge is going to release the funds uh what they start asking for the money where's the money they're like hey Doug what's that account up to now I'm like oh it's about 110,000, 60,000.

It's whatever it is. And you can hear them on the phone, right? You think we can pull that authorization for the American can't? Sure. No, right. I never put that in anyway. Yeah. What agreement.

I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Let's see. we had one where the late again lady died she didn't have a will and they sent one of our crew down to like the property records they sent another one to the vital records they sent me to the house okay it was up in the Hollywood hills by the Hollywood sign if a realtor would have written up the sale it would have said landscaped for privacy basically, which means it's overgrown. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I went up there, the backyard.

Yeah, it's set up in a way that it's almost impossible to get in. Yeah. So I went up there. They had like a fire pit in the backyard and there was beer bottles and whiskey bottles. And the local teenagers, you know, got wind of it and, you know, got on it quick. And it was what's called a conservator case, meaning that Los Angeles. Angeles County conservator took over, right, because there was no attorney, there was no nothing, so L.A. County took over. And it was a public case, right? So other, our competitors

were looking at it, too, right? We got to the, I got to the house, like, the day that it was published, right, by the county. And I walk off this very steep brick stairs to this mansion. And looked around, you know, mailbox, which, by the way, you can't go in a mailbox because it's federal property, but P.I. have a way of using their butt to bump it and cause it to fall out. Right. I'm not saying that's what I did. But again, the statute of limitations is probably over. That's what I did. And didn't really get anything from it.

I mean, got some bank account. information, which by then you couldn't call banks and get information anyway. So all I did with it was give it to the county conservator later to say, hey, you know, this might be important for the estate. Anyway, went down, nothing, went down to the street, knocked on the neighbor's door. Neighbor was a licensed realtor. And she said, oh, yeah, is that up for sale? And I was like, well, by the county, yes, the county's going to, you know, bid it out and whatever. So I wish I could have gotten it, you know, whatever. And I said, can he tell me anything about it?

And she says, no, she was very reclusive. But if you go down to the local Quickey Mart down on sunset or wherever it was, Gower, something like that, and talk to the manager there, she used to order her groceries from there. And they would, she used to go down there, but then when she got older, they'd bring it up to her. So I went down there, talked to the manager. Oh, yes, yes. She hadn't ordered in like a month. So I sent one of my guys up there and they found her dead.

I said, can you tell me anything about her? And she says, other, he said, other than going up there and delivering food, no. And I said, any visitors, any talk of relatives? Nope, no. And then he says, but the funeral is, I think he said tomorrow. or maybe he said at the end of this week, it doesn't matter, like recent, right? And I'm like, do you know where it is? And he goes, yeah, they told me it was at like Forest Lawn right there, big, you know, celebrity-filled mortuary, funeral, whatever, there, right off the 101.

And so I call my office and I said, listen, there's going to be a funeral. I'm going. So I put on a coat and tie and went to the funeral. there are besides me there are three people there there was the Quickey Mart manager there was the realtor the neighbor and then there was this older lady and I said well I'm going to start this off this is why I'm here okay I'm here to help reunite Mrs. whatever her name was I forgot her name with her estate with the rightful heirs to her state okay and I said and and whatever information you have would be

great and mind you our competitors have no have no idea of this so this is like exclusive and it's a mansion in the in the the Hollywood Hills right even if it's needs to be gutted right and built on it's still a million dollars right so this old lady starts to talk, and she tells us this story, and we're all, like, leaning in, right, and just enthralled. Apparently, she married a Hollywood producer back in the 20s, okay, and got married in Tijuana. Okay. And back then, you didn't need, like, proof that you were married or whatever to get on a bank account. right to be to be added to a bank account right so he died obviously left every whether he had a

will or not she got everything right and she's living in this house a teawanna marriage certificate a teawanna merit certificate living in the house alone for the last 20 25 years okay the the landscape was overgrown by about 20, 25 years. And the lady said that she was very reclusive. She was very sad that her husband died. Didn't hear about any family or visitors. Like I would ask, do you ever have any visitors? Can you tell what license plates they were from? You know, that kind of thing. Anything to get, in our business, a little nugget of information can blow a case wide open. And she said, no. And then she said, but there was this one, night, about 15 years ago, we got together and we had a little bit too much to drink. And this

lady's like, you know, in your 70s then. So she's, you know, maybe a little embarrassed, a little prudent, prude. And she's told me that she was a twin and she was adopted out. And I said, do you know if she was adopted out together? She goes, no, she wasn't. And I'm, you know, I'm leaning in even harder now. And do you know where it happened? And she said, I think it was like Pennsylvania or Ohio or somewhere like in that area. I said, okay. And that's about all we got, but we continued listening to her. And I get in the car and, you know, by then we've got cell phones and I call my office and said, you are not going to believe the information that I just got. And nobody else has it. And I told them. And it took us about four months to find the adoption record. And we found the

twin. She had died, but she had two daughters. And they split in the end, I think, four million dollars. Whoa. Yeah. It's a nice chunk of change. And you guys get how much of that? At that time, I think it was a 5% contract for the company. And then we split the commission between the team so that it wasn't like, you know, I'm competing against, you know, our team kind of thing. And whoever signed them up, which we didn't sign them up because it was in, you know, their state, they got a commission for signing them up. So we, so five percent of four million is two, two hundred, two hundred thousand. Mm. No. Not 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a good one. That was a good one.

another, there was two or three times in that nine years where, you know, we identified, somebody died, the, we identified the air, and they happened to be in California's luxurious prison system. Nice. And I would, you know, I went up. There was one up in Bakersfield. I forgot the name of it, but it was a, I don't know if it was a middle or max or whatever, but it was, you know, I had to make an appointment and, you know, all of that. and I get up to show my PI license and my driver's license and my firstborn and, you know,

anyway, get there and we're, you know, I'm ushered into a room with a, you know, a glass and a phone and just like it is in the movies. And I talked to this young kid and he's, I think he's got like seven more years. I don't even remember what, but he had seven years left. So whatever it was must have been significant. And I start telling him who I am. and I got to take like the staples out of everything and you know and I have to ask them to give him a pen so that they can get it right back kind of thing and I told him what was there

for and I think he was getting about 80 grand and we can park it for him until he gets out you know kind of thing um and he was like is this a scam and I'm like you know no you have anything yeah I said I'm not taking anything from you I'm potentially giving you a gift. It's tax-free. It's, you know, I said, I will recommend, though, that you not tell anybody in here about it because they're going to make ways to get it. Yeah. They just start trying to extort you for the money.

Yeah. I said, just tell them that I'm here about your case and I'd assign some papers and some bullshit and they'll eat it up, right? So about three or four times I had to go to like a state prison, which, I've heard you say are worse than, you know, federal prisons. But anyway, each of them had like one that had 10 years left, one year at five, and I think the other had seven or eight. So they were, their eyes lit up, you know, when I told them the amount. Even it was 20 grand, their eyes lit up.

Oh, getting out to anything is great. Yeah. And the fact that, you know, if you sign it today and the case closes, the probate system is horrendously slow. It grinds people to dust. But the good thing is, if the judge puts the money in an account, it earns interest, then they get the interest. So anyway, that's one kind of set of stories.

Had another one where somebody died, found it like at night in the morning at a local branch of the court. By 9.30, we found somebody with the very same last name, which was like Ukrainian or Turkish or something like that. It was very, very unique. Right. And he lived like five miles away. The guy they were supposed to sign up.

Right. Like, how did this guy not know his, whatever? So I went there. His aunt lived in the same town? Yeah, yeah. And so I went there. He didn't speak English, had to get his 13-year-old daughter to translate for me,

and proceed to tell him, you know, that it's your brother's kid or whoever it was. He starts crying. And he's like hugging me. And through his teenage granddaughter interpreter says he's always heard about that part of his family, but never put two and two together or found it or whatever, right? So he goes in the other room, comes out with these like, rolled up documents on parchment paper with a wax seal and a string, right, from the old

country. And he gives them to me. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I can't just take these. He goes, no, no, no, you take, for you, for you. And I said, tell you what, I'm going to go to Kinkos. I'm going to make copies of these. I'll be right back. Tell, tell your grandpa that. And so he did, she did, and come back. And we sign them up, right? Well, Turns out that his last name is like Smith in whatever language it was, okay? And apparently in our research, the family that he was from was from the old country. But the family that his half-brother was from a woman, a wife, quote-unquote wife, in Boston. So they're not related?

Well, they're related. It's the same dad, but he had two wives, one in the old country and one on the new country, and they traveled back and forth and they never knew each other. They never knew they existed, right? So he, so it goes to the judge, and we've got all this documented. We've got the family tree just nailed down, right? It is the dad, right? But we can't validate that the name of the dad in the old country is the same person in the new country that is connected to the estate because it's Smith. It's like John Smith.

Yeah, it's so overwhelmingly popular. Yeah. You get lost. There's too many. Yeah. And all his documents in the old country, for lack of a better description, his driver's life. license or his whatever were one thing, but the things here were, the connection was vague at best.

Right. So the judge declined or claim. And he was going to get $100,000 or something like that. Right. And I didn't want to call him because he gave me a hug and he was crying in the old country and all of that. So I went to his house and talked to him and his granddaughter was there. And I said, listen, I just want to tell you.

you that the judge declined our claim because your dad's name is too familiar and it's not directly related to the family that's in Boston. And Matt, he breaks down again, starts crying. And he says, it doesn't matter. I found my family. Like I found, you know, these people are related to me. That's all that ever mattered. You know, I'm sorry that you don't get paid. Right. But that was a tearjerker. That was a tearjerker.

What else? I had one out of the Long Beach cord. Again, somebody died. This one was a horse race between us and our competitor company. We got the case. They came into the court office while I was finishing writing up what I needed to write up, I was told by a mentor in the PI business that you never want to buy the same real estate twice. What he meant by that is if you go into an abstract, a document or look at

a document, either take a physical copy of it or write down everything that's in it because you don't want to come back, because coming back is more money and more time and all that. So anyway, I'm writing down everything. My competitor comes in so I can't hide the file or I can't do our shenanigans. And I just looked at him. I said, good luck, because I know that he's going to run with this. And again, my office sent somebody to his house, somebody to the vital records, land records, and they sent me to the nursing home, the last nursing home that he was in. And we're gathering all this evidence. And I talked to the nursing manager. And he goes, yeah, I remember so and so. He was an asshole. He was an asshole to everybody. I mean, we loved him, but

He was an asshole, complaining about everything and, you know, and just a farty old, grumpy old man. And ever talk about any relatives? Ever talk about any visitors? Nope, nope, nope, nope. Did comment about his Navy record, right? Like he was in the Navy a long time ago. And so my dad, again, he was a helicopter pilot.

He was a lieutenant commander. He said he didn't kiss enough butts to become captain. But he was, you know, retired lieutenant commander. he, I learned that he was in the Navy, right? And I run things by my dad all the time just for ideas. And he goes, well, tell you what, why don't we talk to your Aunt Martha's brother-in-law? And I'm like, what was that? And he goes, and I, again, I won't use the name because it's not important.

But, oh, he was a rear admiral, a retired rear admiral in the Navy. Not really. Because, yeah, and he was ambassador to a very large and important. important country, it doesn't matter. And he probably has staff, like a concierge, the retired real admiral probably has people that will do work for him, right? So he gives me the number, and I call him, and I said, hi, Admiral Smith, goes yes. I said, I was suggested to call him my dad, Howard Cobb, who's the brother of your sister-in-law, right? And he go, yeah, I met your dad once? Yeah, yeah. How you doing? Family thing. What's going on? And I said, well, I don't

mean to intrude and I don't mean to take advantage of your position. I said, I'm a licensed private investigator in the state of California. I've got a case. He's retired Navy going back a long time. And he's okay. This is what I want you to do. You're going to talk to a captain young. Okay. He's my attach. He'll give you whatever he wants. Here's his number. So I call him. Give him the spiel. And he goes, and this what he says. I think it was like a Thursday, right? He goes, well, I don't think I can get this to you today. Right. Right. I said, in my head, I'm like, you can give this to me a month from now. Nobody's going to have this, right? Yeah. He gets back to me in a FedEx like Tuesday or Wednesday.

That's how quick it was. And he gives me his whole personnel file from the Navy. Okay. he joined the Navy at 17 back in like 1917 when the Navy was oil breathing smoke breathing vessels right and he was it said where he was born and I learned later through my my partners that he was gay okay not that it mattered to me whatever but it plays into our thought process, okay? Here's this kid, 17-year-old kid, growing up in the Midwest, gay. Where do you go where there's lots of men? St. Francisco. You go to the Navy.

Oh. Right? And you see the world. Well, the San Francisco comes into it, comes into the story. He joins the Navy, right? Right. Travels the world, wherever he's going. if he had a kid in any of those ports,

he probably doesn't know about it, right? Does he have a kid in any of those ports? He didn't. Well, we don't know. He's going to say, consider he's missing part of the equation. Yeah, consider he's gay, probably doesn't, but if he does, probably doesn't know about it

and hasn't been made aware of it. And we probably couldn't find it anyway, right? Because if he's sleeping with whatever, is she probably sleeping with others and who's the daddy, right? If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of night or all of the above. That's where ghost bed can help.

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Right. We do a record search, telephone book kind of record search on that address that he was discharged to. It was basically a flop house. Like, everybody gets discharged there. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So that didn't help.

we eventually I didn't get this information I didn't find it but I was told that we found his mother right she's got another thumb no she was many many

decades dead yeah sorry but the father wasn't listed okay so we went down hers she had another kid we've tracked him He was dead, and we gave it to his offspring.

But that was like a year later. It took a lot of gum shoe work to get that one. That was it. But it was worth it. He had like $800,000 and he squirled it. From the time that he left the Navy, or maybe even in the Navy, he squirled away every dime, every single dime. And the ladies at the nursing home, knew it, like knew he had a lot of money. I don't know whether they tried to scam him or not,

but he must have made comments like, if you knew how much of money I had, you know, I'd have your job, you know, whatever, boasterous kind of thing. So the changing nature of life, we went from pagers to brick. I had like this attach cell phone that opened up and the little antenna and all that and a brick and then flip phones and all of that. But also the the cause to find somebody was plummeting. Right. Whereas more competition? The barrier to entry was nothing, right?

And somebody can, instead of spending, you know, $100, $150 for manual and digital, you know, work. Now you can do it for a buck, right? So I saw it coming. Lexus kind of like Lexus Nexus reports are coming out. Exactly. Exactly. So I saw it coming and I proposed to the company that I work for that because we've got agents in a lot of different courthouses that we expand horizontally into like document holes and things like that. Okay. They flew me to their headquarters. I made the presentation. They got back to me a week later, said they're not interested. And I, that was a signal to me that I needed to get out of this industry because it's going to be taken over by. by the digital world. And they were using digital. Don't get me

wrong. But it is going to be a severe threat to our position as the number one or number two. Like you walking into Blockbuster saying, I'm thinking we should maybe start Twitch to CDs and maybe even look into this whole streaming thing

and they're like, who is the guy? Who let this guy get this guy out of the boardroom? You don't know what you're doing, kid. So I started my exit strategy, and part of that exit strategy was a fraternity brother of mine. I had met at a alumni kind of speaking engagement, and we had like a two-minute elevator speech, you know, and I told him what I did. And he happened to be in the creative business in Hollywood, putting deals together.

I hear you talk about deals all the time. I don't know if you know him. His name is Dylan Conroy. but he said listen call me that sounds like it could be you know a history channel or discovery channel or you know something like that i said okay he goes but put together like a summary and he called it something like a i don't know what he called it deck page or uh yeah yeah and it was like there was like two pages and uh so i did but i i framed it i didn't frame it right i framed it as them like following us around

like a reality show and then you know when we got the when we got the signing they would go to us with the signing and all that I shouldn't have framed it that way but I did and I sat with these guys and they were more than receptive you know oh yeah and I told them the stories that I just told you right

they always are they always are right I got my 15 seconds of fame and they got back to me and said thank you, but no thank you, right? Now, I had done the poor man's, was it the poor man's notary or something where you mail it to yourself, but you don't open it? Right. I thought that would be important, but it ended up not being, well, the production company that I sat with is connected to a, as you probably know where this is going, is connected to a production company

that made the series, who do you think you are? Have you heard about that? It's a genealogical show that takes celebrities and traces their genealogy good or bad. And sometimes it's bad, like slave owner type stuff. Oh, yeah. I know you talking about the black guy does it. I've seen those. I didn't know what it was called that, but I've seen those. Yeah.

My show is called Where There's a Will. That was the name of my show, right? But I see this show and I see the imprimatur on the back. that the production company is and I do a little research and I just sold them this because the beginning of the pitch was the increasing popularity

of genealogy as a hobby right and I just handed it to them but oh well I had my 15 seconds of fame so did I do you think matched doc not matched

what am I talking about ancestry ancestry Yeah, dot com kind of. They backed it totally. Or they killed, they killed that whole need for the genealogy thing because now the

blood, you know, the DNA is just connecting you to everybody. Everybody with you, like you in one. I'm constantly getting, we went to ancestry updates saying, you know, you're related to so and so, you know, such and such, you know, reach out to them. I don't ever reach out, but it's like every

two weeks I'm getting and somebody knew, it's like, you're, hey, a new person, you're related to? Well, the thing about genealogy that I learned, and I did it not only as a profession, but I also did it away from their hunting business as a paid service to people if they wanted to look into their genealogy. The thing about genealogy is past great-grandparents, it's difficult because you have two parents, four grandparents, eight grandparents. Yeah, get some buddy.

You have 16. Yeah, it gets muddy, and the only people that have documents are either landowners or scoundrels, right? High society or scoundrels are sometimes both. They're the same person. But, I mean, people can trace their geology back to, you know, William the Conqueror if they're, you know, savvy enough. But what does that mean, right? After four or five generations, it gets very muddy. And if people want to do it, okay.

charge me for, you know, $200 a generation, you know, sure, I'll do it. But anyway, I saw the handwriting on the wall that this industry was going to be impacted negatively by the internet. They weren't interested in expanding or augmenting at all. So I reached out to some people that I knew in the mortgage servicing space. And a friend of mine who I had worked with said, oh yeah, we need somebody to run our mortgage fraud shop. I said, okay, I'm your guy. So I jumped in, worked for one of the largest subprime mortgage companies at that time in America in 2003, 2004, Indy MacBank. Nice. Ran their fraud shop. I had a group of auditors slash investigators that would pull a origination file and tear it apart and provide documented evidence to a recovery team that

would either go after the notary's bond or insurance or the appraiser's bond or insurance or force the broker to buy a back, which, as you know, once you buy one or two back, three back, you don't have much on your credit line anymore and you can't buy. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurant. Fresh Excludes Flavored Ice Coffee and Delivery

Book Club on Monday Jim on Tuesday Date night on Wednesday Out on the town on Thursday Quiet night in on Friday It's good to have a routine And it's good for your eyes too Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers

You'll know just how healthy they are Visit Spexavers.cavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam I exams provided by independent optometrists. Me back. So you go under, right? The thing is, and I found a lot of fraud. I mean, and I think you were busy at that time, and I think I knew of your work. When was this?

I was in the business from like 1999 till early, so late 2003. So it was like five years. I had heard about your work. I also had heard about your novel, although it wasn't out at the time. Like, there was rumors of this thing that was out there that this guy boldly documented his time. But I also, you know, I think I told you this in our initial phone call. Remember smoking the band at the end where the sheriff and the smoky are talking to each other of the CB radio, but they can't see each other. But they're congratulating each other on the chase.

Right. That's what I would like to do to you. I bow your, you know, your prowess. It made me a better investigator, all that. But I did find a lot of fraud, for example, an appraisal where the pictures of the inside or the front is the house, but the inside and the back is a burned out shell. And it's pictures from another, you know, another property, right?

And you like something similar many times, not a burnout shell, but many times, same thing. Yeah, we're like the, we, the inside was not complete. or it was gutted or whatever. Yeah. We just go take pictures of, you know, another renovated property we had. And, you know, you had to be careful because sometimes you look at the windows. You're taking pictures of windows and clearly all the windows are like, you know, maybe, maybe three foot by, you know, five or six feet.

And then you're taking photos of windows that are basically three foot by three foot. It's very obvious where maybe the blinds don't match. And you can see them from the outside. it's like, hey, you know, you've got to use your head here. Yeah. My tell was always the power line coming into the house. What's that? From the street or the telephone pole?

Because in the real picture, it came in maybe the front right. But in the picture from the back, it came from the back left. Oh, okay. It was like, wait, what? Well, I don't think most people noticed that, though. That's the whole thing. You have to really be, like, you have to be saying, hey, I'm looking at this. Underwriters look at it.

for value and then everything's correct and then fraud people so most people don't think fraud yeah fraud guys like okay i something's wrong with this file let me find it and they start looking yeah you have to think like a criminal yeah but most people miss all that yeah i mean and i found we didn't have at the time like like if you said you made a certain amount reasonability tests for income we didn't have those they came after this and i'll give you a great example we don't You're guys washing cars making $150,000 a year, and you're like... Guy works Main Street at Disneyland in one of the retail shops. Right.

Okay? This is back in, you know, 2020 or 2040-0-4-5, right? How much do you think he makes? I mean, I'm thinking... The guy makes maybe $20, $25,000 a year or most? Right. $15 an hour, maybe? Yeah, at best.

Yeah, okay. Okay. And... it's in the file as like $95,000. And if you do the math, you can't even do 24 hours a day working to get to that. Right. So there was no reasonability test. It was just said no income, no doc, you know, whatever loan.

And they just slapped it on and they bundled it, you know. And if it was in a, if it was scratching den, they just took it out and replaced it with another one, right? On that particular loan, after the crash, well, before the crash, my boss was instructed to water down the QC reports for the incoming vintage of loans. Like water down the findings. Right. And she refused. And she pulled me in her office and said, Doug, what do I do?

And I've known her for, you know, 20 years at this time, 25 years. And I said, well, you know what to do. You know, if you want any legitimacy in this industry, you've got to do what you've got to do. You've got to do what's right. So she declined. She had something happened that weekend where she couldn't come in on Monday, a personal thing. Anyway, they had a three-way call between or four-way call, whatever. Her attorney, her boss and the attorney for human resources.

right and they're going over why she's getting written up or why she's going to get let go or whatever the conversation was but the other side of the what did I do that okay the other side of the table said hold on can you can we can we put you on hold for a second they thought they put themselves on hold but they didn't and they were like I thought you told me that she had a negative performance review blah blah blah blah blah why are we here blah blah blah blah blah and you can sense that they sensed that the mute button was not on suddenly they realized yeah and there was like this pregnant pause and her her attorney says so do we have a deal now right and she got like this huge payout to keep her mouse

that and all that. Well, fast forward a year or so, or not even a year, six months, they let 1,500 of us go one day, right, in 2008, sweeped across the country. Right. Right. Then they got taken over by one West, and there was a whole, whole Schumer, you know, Senator Schumer issue and a letter. Anyway, a year after that, I get called by the FDIC. the postal inspector and the FBI to come in and talk. And I'm like, and I had already signed like in, what is it, NDA?

Right. And I'm like, I don't care. I don't fucking care. Yeah. Who goes down, right? So they pull me in. I go to this post office, local post office, and they have like a meeting room, right?

Because it's a federal building, you know, all about. Yeah. And talk to these guys. And they asked me about this loan, this Disneyland loan. They called it the Disneyland loan. Right. And I said, well, it didn't pass the smell test. What do you mean?

I said, well, you know, if he made, let's say, $20 an hour, which is generous, $25 an hour, at 2,000 hours a year, nowhere close. At 24 hours a day, not even close. So you're saying it wasn't reasonable. I said, yes. Was there any reasonability test? And I said, well, I'm not on the front end. I don't know about the details of that stuff.

But I do know the loan type. And no, there wasn't it. And he goes, well, what were you told about these types of loans? And the appetite for the bank, excuse me, the bank to repurchase these loans was nothing. Zero. Find somebody to pin it on, basically. And if we had to take it out as a scratch and dent, replace it with something else and put it in a bond that was a B, right, B minus instead of an A.

And I heard you talk, and I think yesterday, I don't know if it was a recent one about the tranches, you know, of mortgages and the, what was called the big, the big, there was a movie. Oh, the big short. Or two big to fail. Too big to fail and the big short. That's exactly what happened. It was a movie sum up that whole industry perfectly. Yeah, and I was right in the middle of it, dealing with fraud. And, you know, people ask me who's to blame?

And I say, well, I would say the rating agencies are to blame. Because you pay them a buck and they'll give you whatever greed you want. Right. It was also the federal government and the GSEs, you know, turning a blind eye to a lot of stuff there was greed all the way around but it certainly wasn't the borrower they were just trying to usually they're just trying to get housing

and the broker they're trying to make that happen yeah trying to one of the great scenes in that movie is where they talked to the brokers down in Florida or something like that and the one guy says oh yeah six months ago I was a bartender now I got two boats or you know whatever

and anyway I guess I always I always joke I'm like those were my brokers those were the guys like I used to work for pest X and now I now I have a 700 I just bought a house worth almost a million dollars you know on a canal yeah and talking to the stripper and she's got five different houses and oh yeah it's it's debt servicing now but you know when rates spike you know in 18 months what are you going to do what do you mean the rates are going to spike I'm just got to refi you promised that yeah that in writing do you have that yeah yeah so Anyway, so I went to work for her. Then the crash happened in 08, and I got out, still retained my PI license for a while. I couldn't do financial service-related PI work because it was non-compete for a certain number of years, and I didn't want to test that. And I had no mind, no care thrown people under the bus by name because they were dirtbags, because they asked,

my boss to fudge the numbers, they knew exactly what was going on. But as far as competing against, you know, whatever, I didn't want to take that risk. So I stayed doing PI work, which is a young man's game, by the way, sitting in a van on a on a workman's comp case waiting for the guy to, you know, pick up a trash can or do whatever. Just, it's a young man's game. Right. And I got out of that quick. What I wanted to ask was, you know, the air, like looking up Like, you know, a lot of what I've found, well, I mean, I started hearing about this really in prison. But since then, like, in the new people will send me newspaper articles and stuff all of them. We're like, somebody dies and then their, their kids are like, hey, you know, what's going on with the house?

And come to find out, like, some uncle or cousin. Snatched it. six months earlier had mom sign a, like a warranty deed. Now, keep in mind, it's signed and notarized, but it was just recorded like four days after she died. Yeah. And they don't ever, they don't necessarily realize that. They look at the document, not when it was recorded some.

So they're like, they did this six months ago. Then you start looking into it. They're like, no, wait a minute. They didn't do it six months ago. They, it's backdated six months. It's notarized. If you check out the notary, they tend to know the person. or or it's made up completely yeah so i always wonder i wonder if during those the air thing if that

ever came up because it's because really that kind of stuff happens all the time yeah it does happen all the time the thing is who's the attorney that's going to do that and who who's paying that attorney but didn't you don't even need an attorney but who's going to track that down and challenge it right somebody could challenge it in court personally right but if it if it if If you live in North Carolina, and this is happening in Montana, you know, it's going to be difficult. And then even if you go in front of the judge and you say the judge says, well, it's notarized. Like it's her signature. It just has to be close, you know.

It's her signature. And it's notarized. And it's witnessed. And look, Your Honor, I have a couple of the witness. You know, I've got affidavits. Like, I don't know what my aunt is talking about. Yeah. My grandmother called me in.

She asked me to do this. I had the document. Yeah. She passed away. Yes, I recorded it after she passed away because I realized that I didn't need the house in my name right now. She's living in the house. That was our agreement. So then I recorded it.

Yeah. And then they're like, okay, aunt so and so. He's got all these documents and affidavits and everything. You're just saying, that's my mom's house and you want it. Well, sounds to me like your mother gave him the house. Like it's just, you know, it's so funny because there are so many times that you'll read these things. And they're like, well, the document was notarized. You know, how easy it is to get a notary stamp or have a buddy who's a notary and, you know, that will say, you know, yeah, I notarize it. Yeah, I saw her.

I went to the house and I saw it. Why? Because he's got, when they sell the house, he's going to get 20 grand. And all I got to do is fill out an affidavit. I don't even have to work most of the time. Yeah. Don't you have a product that helps protect that? Didn't you? Yeah. I, I, well, I represent a company called home title lock that. Yeah. That at least notifies you when something happens. Yeah. When something happens. your title but because of that because i do those commercials for them and i and i i work with them fans or whatever you want to call them you know subscribers where send me these these these like all over the country they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll something will happen in their city and they'll read it in the newspaper they'll like oh my god let me send this to matt cox because all the time and i'm like holy shit like this is happening all the time all the time yeah yeah that reminds me something. When I was doing the air hunting and starting to get out of the business, I remember the day, like it was yesterday, I heard on the radio that, you know what unclaimed property is, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So the California Supreme Court forced the state of California to make a website where people can look for their unclaimed property. Prior to that, the rule was you had to publish it. Well, you know what? These bass

you know, government workers, you know, think they'd get away with shit. They find some desert paper that has 500 people that subscribe to it. They put it in like four point font, right, that gets published twice a year, right? And they spread it all over into these backwoods, you know, newspapers. And they're like, well, we did it. Why didn't you know about it? You should have known about it, right? So they got, yeah, they got sued.

and it went live. And I remember the day that it went live because as a private investigator, I can charge 10% to help you recoup it, right? So I went through my roll. Remember Rolodex? I went through my Rolodex, all my friends and whatever.

And yeah. And I found, you know, this guy, 50 bucks and this guy, 25 bucks, and, you know, just made him aware of it, right? But then I said, okay, where's the big money? Right? I know there's big money out there. So there was a People magazine on my,

on the cover was a celebrity, right? Put in the celebrity his name, nothing. But then I started doing celebrities, and I got to, do you remember LeVar Burden? Sounds familiar, yes. Reading Rainbow and Roots and Star Trek, African-American. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jordan, Jordan LaForge. Yeah.

That was his name on Star Trek. He had the blind, he was the blind guy. He had the thing. That's right, that's right. So he was getting like $17,000. So for me, that's a $1,700 payday, right? How much effort, you know, would it take to get it, right? So I, through some resources, found his manager, right?

Talked to the manager, showed him my PI license, showed him the law, showed him the screenshot of, or whatever, the facts back then of, you know, and he didn't want to track it down. He didn't want to do the work. And he says, okay, it's just going to cost him. I said, yeah, and only if I collect it. If I don't collect it, you don't pay me anything. So he sends me LeVar Burton's driver's license.

Okay? I sent it in. I fill out the paperwork, sent it in, and just like every stinking government bureaucracy, they made me, or wanted to make me, prove that this money, which were royalties from Walt Disney for a show that he used to do, right?

It said Walt Disney pictures, movie royalties, or whatever, and it's a Levar Burden, how many LeVar Burdens are there in the world, right? That are actors. They wanted me to get the paycheck stub that represents those monies. Do you got to go to Disney to get a copy of the pay stuff? Well, I went to the manager. I said, do you have this? We don't have that.

That was 10 years ago. Right. If we do, it's in a box storage somewhere, and we probably don't because we don't keeping that long, right? So, anyway, that was, that was a comedy. That took me three months of knocking on doors and, and, you know, talking to people at the state on, why do we need to do this? Why, why, why? Well, you got to protect the account holder, right? Who? Who? Mr. Burden? You're not protecting them, right? You're protecting. Yeah, you're protecting you guys. And the, and the dirty little secret.

that I came to realize, first of all, every state has this, okay? At the time, and I'm going to use numbers that I don't remember, but that's just for shits and giggles, let's say they had $6 billion worth of assets. A lot of it was money, some it was gold, some it was cars, you know, whatever was confiscated. They would monetize that, collateralize it, and sell it on the market. So now they're making interest on your shit and making it difficult for you to get your shit. Right. And a lot of these monies have a timeline where if nobody collects it, the state takes ownership of it.

So you've got all these millions of dollars going out of the system and millions of dollars going in the system. It's a scam. It's a pyramid scheme. It's government-sponsored, you know, forcing banks and insurance companies and whatever to turn over these under the auspices of, well, if you can't find them, you know, but haven't made whatever and they have it, then just give it to us. We'll safeguard it. And the banks get it as a write-off. You know, we're sending this asset over to you and, you know, whatever. When I got out of prison, I got back, I don't know what it was.

It was like, I want to say it was like $2,800 or something. like it was significant like from what from it's called um uh florida treasure dot com or florida treasure dot com or something but all was it that got it there um so it was one this is don't tell me it was mortgage commissions no no it was insurance so it was an insurance policy for some reason and like it was it was a couple of like two different insurance policies which i have no idea how i would get money back from an insurance policy and there was something like like there were deposits that I'd put into

you know like like a time to count no like well I don't know some were credit cards but they were nothing 500 bucks 300 dollars and then there were things that were what was it what was I was going to say oh like like your electric or utility deposits or something like it was

weird little things that it was like like I didn't even know I had that like nobody does nobody does right it's like I'm like I'm like how does that even come back to me like but somehow and it's funny because I got it a job and my buddy was like uh you know did you have you tried you know for a treasure dot com or whatever it was called or dot gov and I was like no what's that and he goes oh yeah bro he said about seven eight years ago they started this thing and he told me about it and he's like you ought to check and I was like well how do I check. And we went on it and a bunch of stuff showed up. And I was like, are you, are you joking? Are you serious? And this is right as you, this is right as you got out of jail.

How's this halfway house? So you needed the money. Of course. Yeah. And I also had sold the option and got an option for this is about the same time. I had sold an option when I was in prison. And they, as soon as I got in the halfway house, like I'd been there maybe two weeks. The option came in again. Like they re-optioned and my ex-wife called me and said, hey, I got a letter here from some attorney and I go open it and she opens it and she goes oh my god there's a check for like 6,800 bucks I was like oh what and then maybe a few weeks after that is when I got a few weeks after that I got those checks in yeah I was like or that you know it was like of the check and I was like oh my gosh this is insane the universe's timing is perfect for you yeah it's worked

out yeah I'm very proud of you for not only your turnaround or your whatever but the fact that You're kind of spreading the love to others that may not have a platform or a voice. It's a great channel. I recommend it to people all the time. As a matter of fact, as soon as we're done. And if you publish it, whether you do or not, no worries, you know, I'm going to use that as a, you've got to check this guy's shout. Because there's a lot of crime channels, right? A lot.

And yours is significantly different. They're not just telling the story. They're having the person tell the story. and you're you're like us watching it like I want to ask him this and then you do but able to I'm able to ask questions that's why you know it's funny I have a lot of guy I appreciate that too by the way I have a lot of guys that will say like oh hey you want to talk first know the story so I can talk about tell you about what the story is so you'll know you won't go in cold it's like eh I'm probably better off not doing it

because the few times that's happened or I've watched some guy tell his story for like two hours on YouTube like I watch another interview then when they're sitting here the whole time I'm like okay so right right right like I don't ask any of the pertinent questions because I already know the answers I'm not asked one or two I'm like hey well I don't understand how did you know about the bank and that I might ask one or two but not nearly as much as if I had watched it cold yeah and people get upset about that sometimes they'll get upset they're like yo you didn't do any research I don't want to do any research I'm better when you don't right I'm the viewer yeah so uh what else was going to tell you it's funny

you say that um because i actually i actually had a guy contact me this morning a guy who was another podcast another and he called me up and he was like yo bro i wanted to thank you so much for you know i had done a video with him he's like like that video really helped me out thank you so much and you answered all my questions and i want to really thank you and most people don't do that and which is honestly hasn't been that has not been that has not been my experience so far. So far in the YouTube community, I feel like 90% of people have been super helpful to me and honest. I don't expect much. So I typically just have five minutes of questions. I'm not asking you to do anything. So, but typically it's like, hey, how do you do this?

Or do where do you go for this? Or how did you do that? And then I'll take it from there. But a lot of people, apparently, according to my buddy, he was like, yeah, listen, a lot of people don't even want to answer your questions. Really? You're like, yeah, man. I don't feel comfortable telling you that. It's like, what are you talking about? Yeah. You don't feel like. Well, my self, self-censor, you know, my self-censors during our time today has just been to kind of protect, you know, it's not, it's not pertinent to the story.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I can name names. I can name whatever. Well, you know, I had a, but I got a guy, a guest come on, this is probably six months ago, his, I don't know if you saw this one. um his father was like a con man and had tried to con bill gates senior out of like three million dollars or something i saw that one he came in person did the podcast he was great and uh told a great story super likable guy and that was the one with the personal letters to the mom yes one which was his dad was just a such a a doucheback yeah douchebag i was gonna say knucklehead but yeah yeah he was he was just a such a scumbag

you know um and and and his whole life and what was interesting about that was he at first he called me told me kind of gave me very basics five minutes spiel okay cool yeah he's like yeah look i'm not far from you i'll come down i definitely was oh great even better and then he calls back like two days later he's like yo i'm gonna give me a skimmy we have to put this off I said why he said he had called like his uncle and just to tell his uncle like oh wow you're not going to believe this and his uncle got really like oh I don't know about that I don't want you that's our family private family star in dirty laundry yeah that's not right you need it he's like so I'm working I'm negotiating with him he ended up having to call both

of his aunts to get his aunt's okay and I was like you know I was thinking it's better to ask for forgiveness and permission. Like, you shouldn't have said anything. And he was like any, he said, I wouldn't have asked. He's like, because I didn't think this was a big deal at all. Like, nobody can stand my father. I'm not talking bad about my family. I'm talking bad about my father.

It's my father's old. And we all agree on it. Right. Well, he's like, I had no idea. He's going to react like this. And so I'd say, a week later, he said that he called me up, said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to come down. I said, oh, okay, I think it's come up because I think he's down near Miami.

And I was like, okay, what happened? He said when he told his aunt, look, here's the thing. And she's like, yeah, I don't care. He's like, okay, well, uncle so-and-so did care. He was kind of concerned. She goes, what? She said, I don't know what hit. You know what?

I'll call you right back. I have the phone called him. Who do you think you are telling him he can? He's like, oh, and so then they were all like, okay, I'm sorry. I didn't realize. She's like, you know, you're 60, 70 years old. like this is his father there's nothing to do with you you know just that's funny but he was great

he told a great story he was uh it was an interesting story too um because you know not every story has to have you have to be necessarily directly involved in he had an interesting story hey you guys if you like the video do you favor hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this please leave be a comment in the in the comment section share the video also please consider joining my page It's $10 a month. It really helps Colby and I make these videos. Thank you very much. See ya