Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How Sinaloa Became Mexico’s Biggest Cartel...

Episode Date: July 6, 2024

How Sinaloa Became Mexico’s Biggest Cartel...

By 2005, they're making $20 to $30 billion a year. And this is the cartel operating at its peak. They blow the doors off the vaults. People start running in and start stealing money. And so that creates the distraction necessary for their leaders to get away. The authorities were able to get a lead on Chapa Guzman. They had a tunnel underneath the bathtub. So he's naked running through the tunnels.

Today, my guest is, right? Like, that's how I should do it. So, now, today my guest is Piero. Rossini, my buddy, Pete, and Pete was charged in 1998 under the federal drug kingpin charge. Is that wrong? Statute. Statute. Does it matter?

He was an Ella, he was a, a Beverly Hills based. Look at your face. You're so disappointed. Come on. Listen. So Pete's a buddy of mine. which charges under the Kingpin statute in 1998, and he has an extensive knowledge on the cartels and the underworld, and we're going to get into the rest of the cartel story from, we're roughly around the

year 2005, 7, 8-ish, early 2000s. We're going to bring it all the way to, current times when people talk about the Sinaloa cartel right the images that they come to mind are essentially that stretch a period between mid 2003 and mid 2010 what we refer to generally as the golden era

and so by 2004 they had established themselves as the preeminent group they had gone from being the weakest to the most powerful in a span of about 15 years and by 2000 years

and by 2005, they're generating somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 billion a year. You got $2 to $3 billion a month coming to Los Angeles. It's a lot of pesos. No, the American dollars. Oh, okay. Yes, so that's where you get the fields of cash just buried in Mexico because there's literally trailers filled with cash that they are scrambling to try to surface.

You know, Guadalajara quickly became the money laundering capital of the world. Los Angeles became the money laundering capital of the United States. States, in particular, the passports would have been enormous. The false identities would have been enormous. That would have allowed them to set up offshore trusts that were not tied to Americans. Yeah. And so, like, in my case, I had Brazilian passports, but I wasn't utilizing it for, like, I didn't have the knowledge that I had now that I didn't like that. I just duffel back the cash.

Now you're just, now you're dangerous. They fucked up. So what else happened? What's going on? Okay. Where's choppo? Well, by 2004, the Sinaloa Federation exercised control over an 800-mile stretch at a border, encompassing some two dozen ports of entry.

And what distinguished Sinaloa from the other groups was the fact that they were very disciplined and they focused only on drug trafficking, whereas the other syndicates were more of your conventional organized crime. That's what really what got the Zetas in trouble. When they took over a town, they took over everything, stolen cars, prostitution, fencing stolen goods. Well, you create a lot of antipathy with the local authorities, whereas if you're just passing through town, paying them some money and we're taking this to the gringo, so yeah, yeah, yeah, keep it going. Right. And so that's one of the fundamental differences between Sinaloa and the other organizations.

Also, another key aspect to understand is that Sinola was not vertically integrated. It was basically a horizontally based organization which structured its operations around the notion that different drug kingpins operated in different regions. And so there wasn't a duplication of efforts. The guy that's in Halisco has to worry about the money laundering

and operating the labs. The guy in Kalima, you managed the ports. Now, the guy in Kalima, he doesn't have to worry about the tunnels because somebody else has got the tunnels. Right. And so they were able to, by segregating their responsibility, you know, the sum of the whole was significantly greater than the individual parts. So it's a whole assembly line operation. Well, yeah, and that's another one of the main distinctions. And, of course, the ace up their sleeves was with Zambada, having figured out a way how to manipulate the Americans into targeting their rivals,

they were able to now create what were essentially pincer movements. And so when they took over Tijuana, for instance, they literally unleashed the Americans, which manipulated their lackeys in the Mexican government, start targeting the leaders and their top lieutenants, while Sambada sent his group of armed gunmen into Tijuana. And so what they started doing was neutralizing the local police force, like the chief of police got killed, his captain gets killed,

a number of the lieutenants get killed and so when the new police administration comes in they're taking the position of saying hey look we of course want to keep getting our paychecks and their envelopes the cash but we're not going to intervene in your guys are struggle you go out of boys

so the people in Tijuana they actually lost their political protection and so what was before a single unitary group controlling that plaza now you had two groups and that's the thing that's... And they're fighting, right?

Yes, but that was... The main point is, Cina Loa, learn an important lesson. You don't need to control the ports of entry that are outside of their territory. They just need access to them. A lot of times, it's better off renting than buying. Right. So if you live in Tampa and you're going to work in, like,

Lewis, for a few months, you're not going to buy a house, just going to rent. Well, that's what they essentially started doing. They're saying, hey, you know what? We're going to put our people there. Now, of course, the local didn't appreciate it. So it was a long, simmering conflict. But Sinaloa had a practice, they called, Heating Up the Plaza. And what they meant by that was, if the locals get out of line,

the Sinaloa gunmen would come in town, commits some atrocity, kill a bunch of cops, kill some of the rival cartel guys, creating a spectacle that prompts the federal authorities to come in. And so when federal law enforcement comes in, they're targeting the locals. So for the locals in these people, particular regions, whether it was Tijuana, whether it was Waters, whether it was

Norvalorado, they learned quickly that engaging in conduct that's going to attract the attention of the authorities is going to read down to their own detriment. Right. And so they kind of had to have like long simmering conflicts that every once in a while, like, you know, had a sporadic outbreak, but then it was quickly put back in line. And so, you know, by 2000, and five, which is where we stopped the last podcast, essentially Sinaloa had utilized that model to now have, you know, access to the plaza in Tijuana, access to the plaza in Juana, access to the plaza in Rueva Laredo,

well, all of a sudden, they now had the ability to take the sum total of all the cocaine or other contraband that Tijuana and the Gulf are doing, they can now handle it all themselves. And so what they did is they established a model where they're saying, we're going to create disarray in the local community. So they have the Americans unleash the Mexican military. You've got the gunmen coming into town, destabilize the local venue,

and then come in and say, hey, look, we're here, but we're willing to share. And ultimately, that proved to be very successful because they didn't have, the responsibility of maintaining control, but they got all the benefits. Now, what was your earlier question? My question was, where's,

where's, um, choppo in this whole thing? Like, he's got a, he's, he's been, he was,

he was, he was arrested and he was just hanging out? No. And then they broke him out. They broke him out of prison. Oh, that's right.

In 2001. That's right. And so between 2001 and 2004, that's when they were effectively utilizing, right. The American authorities. to target their enemies.

Right. So by the time 2004 came around, you know, Choppel was actually going into Nueval-Loretto. This is a key Gulf Cartel territory. And so, remember, the purpose of the Federation, the 28 organizations coming together,

was to stop the Gulf Cartel juggernaw. And through a Pinser movement where they were targeted law enforcement action with targeted military action, allowed them to say they were able to stop the Zetas and the Gulf from advancing. And then what Guzman did was he had his cousin, Belton on Lava. They put together their own essential, like, paramilitary type group called Los Negados,

who was under the leadership of a guy named Barbie. Oh, Barbie. Barby, he's the American, right? He's the American, he's a Texan, you know, and blonde hair, blue eye, good friend with the guy that we knew from prison. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, loved his women. Fashion of fashion old attire. That's what I called it Barbie. So it looks like a kin doll, right, wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah. And so Barbie put together a group known as Los Negros, and they took it to the golf cartel in their own territory. So obviously they had no chance of knocking them off in Matamotos or knocking them off in Rhinosa. Novo Loreno was different, but the other two, they couldn't. But by attacking them in their backyard, now the Gulf people had to call back

their own military personnel to come defend. Right. So that stopped the onslaught. So they've achieved their goal. By 2005, things were stabilized. And that's when Chappo started pulling off his, you know, his silliness, which sometimes they just couldn't leave well enough alone. What's silliness? Give me a...

Well, you know, they had entered into an alliance with the Waters Cartel. because Waters was in... You got to go through Waters to get to Sinaloa. So they're on the chopping block. So, of course, they jumped into bed with Sinaloa. They utilized the Wados Plaza, moved product through, developed relationship with the locals.

Then Chappo ends up... He's eyeing that territory. So he ends up entering into a deal with Spadagoza, the number two in Wades. And they decide, you know what, let's remove the leadership and take over. Now, these are the kind of moves that Zambada was famous for. He's like, he'll encourage, like, Zambada will fight what is to the last of Chapo's men.

Right. You know what I mean? I'm willing to spend every single dime of his money. That's essentially what happened. And so, you know, they put together this plan where they, Rodolfo had family members in Sinaloa. They ended up killing the guy. when he was visiting that's the guy at the

shopping mall oh yeah yeah and then they uh that it launches a little war within waters and you have to understand

this by 2005 it kind of stale mated and then they just started picking up you know by 2007 2008 waters is the murder

capital of the world there's more fatalities and waters than in Baghdad right I mean it just escalated into this enormity but at the outset it was just a pure

double cross and it was the same model based on the Tijuana model where they said, okay, you know what? We don't have enough strength to overtake it. But that's not necessary because now they've got their man. These two groups are fighting each other, but they've got access to the importation route.

So again, they benefited from destabilizing the locals and then they kept their, you know, one step removed. And so, and Chappo did this with several groups. You know, and later on, this became an issue because the subordinates that he was farming out to actually do to dirty work started accumulating too much power. You know, Beltran Lava comes to negotiated standstill in Nuevo Laredo. That's the biggest port of entry in the United States for commercial trucks. Here's 30 miles from San Antonio. From there, it's a straight shot up to Chicago.

Right. I mean, that's an enormous asset. You know, they took over the entire Arizona border. They knocked off the Sonora cartel. Beltona Lava, again, stepped in, took all of the. like that. That's the guy from the story you wrote, Unlike the Narco. Right. You know, between Arturo and

Barbie and, you know, they ended up getting on a run there where they essentially took from Arizona through New Mexico was theirs. Then this one port in Texas. And so you see this happening where the

subordinates start accumulating too much power and Chapo being Chapo decides to start double-costing that. And so the way it at this point he's launched an unprovoked attack

on orders launched an attack on Nuevo Loretto after already having secured

Tijuana and so by 2005 like I said they're making $20 to $30 billion a year and this is

the cartel operating at its peak and so this say you had like a seven-year run before on the wheels

ultimately fell off. And so when people talk about today, we would have seen a little cartel. Look, what they're talking about has almost no correlation to what was happening back then. Right. You know, the groups today

are just essentially a fraction of that operation. That was truly something that, and the annals of organized crime or drug trafficking has never been replicated, has never even been approached.

You know? Well, at what point does Chapo get caught? Like, at some point it falls apart. He gets caught again and goes back to prison. Yeah, but that's in 15. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yes, and so... Where are we now?

You're in 2005. My God. Let's move forward here. Well, the thing is this. You know, the backdrop to the story is his underhandedness. You know, in one of the main individuals who were... You're suggesting that a cartel member isn't playing fair? My God, Pete.

Look, a lot of it was just unadulterated greed. Right. You know, there was a guy named Armando Valencia, enormous trafficker. And one of the main guys in the backstory of my case. And Valencia was the one who created essentially the market for the synthetics. And so, and he had, you know, labs all over the world, all over the place in Halisco, Mutro Khan, Kalima, Nayadi, it was the world's largest trafficker of Ephedron. And so he forms an alliance with natural Coronel.

Well, this is an independent revenue stream that Trapa Guzman and Malzambata had no part of it. This is how Kordanoa developed so much power. Okay. And so they had 100% control. essentially of, we'll say at one time, the methamphetamine market. Right. And none of the other groups had any access to it. So this enormous war chest.

And so what happens, you know, all of a sudden in 2003, Armando Valencia gets knocked off. Like he's at a bar having drinks with his buddy. Here's the article from the New York Times, you know, Mexico arrest, eight top drug smugglers, one of whom is Armando Valencia. Just by a fluke? Just by, essentially. And later on, of course, when Valencia and I are bullshitting together in prison, I'm like, what happened? All right.

You know, like at that point, they're not thinking it's trouble. Yeah. He's just thinking, man, what happened? And his political protection broke down. Like, you know, every once in a while, you know, highway patrol officer stumbles upon something. Right. By that, yes, yes. You know, you can't eliminate that.

And so, but at that point, you know, Valencia gets moved out of the way. Well, his brother takes over, but Oscar Valencia isn't on the same stature. You know, Valencia was the guy dealing with Mayo and dealing with Amaro Carillo. All of a sudden, the brother now, instead of being an equal with Coronel, Cordonell's operation subsumes it. Then who becomes Coronel's partner, Chabot. So now Choppel to the exclusion of Mayo Zambada and everybody else. So all of a sudden, now he moved into an entire new venue for him in Coronel.

had complete control. This is what plants the seeds later on for Gordonel's ultimate demise. Right. And so you see that same model keeps replacing. Like he gets somebody in close, then he removes the individual from the equation and takes everything over.

Well, at some point, that's not sustainable. Right. Presume nobody wants to be your friend. Well, that's what was precipitated to collapse. But in 2003, they didn't know about that. this, right? The poor Amando got knocked off. It was just bad luck. Then

they do the same thing with Rodolfo Carrillo. They straight up betray him. Well, the other guys knew it, but they were on board with it. Like, it's no problem. The leader of the Gulf cartel was arrested after Guzman and Zambada were able to manipulate

the Americans in targeting the Mexican authorities towards taking down the leadership and its top lieutenants. and that ended up creating an interesting dynamic. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan.

Buy your tickets now. I get a free Tilly Dog. Chili Dog, not included. The Naked God. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. Because after Goldsale Cardenas is taken into custody, he's able to maintain communication with his operatives via cell phone.

however when the top dog goes to jail he's still nominally in control but the problem is the guy's on the street they're all still now vying for power and so what what started as strife within the group ultimately leads to the gulf cartel fracturing because you have de zetas who were loyal to cardinus cardinus is in prison well some other flunky wants to take over, well, they're not going to listen to the flunky. Right. And so the military guys, and at this point, this is still Corzettas. At this point, you know, there's 30 of the original three dozen are still Special Forces guys.

And so they're not going to follow just any schlub. Right. Meanwhile, the organization itself is reeling because they've got the pressure from the Americans. They've got Sena Loa sending their armed militiamen into their territory.

And what was unknown to anybody at that time was OCL Cardinus had begun secretly cooperating. So he's earning cooperation credit while in custody, meeting with high-level DOJ, DEA, State Department officials, essentially targeting his rivals within the cartel. So he's giving up people. Right. And... Is this a lawyer?

This isn't the lawyer. No, this is the head of the Gulf Cartel himself. Okay, sorry. And so this is the guy in the unlikely narco, Vicente Guerrero. That's that case. Okay, this is, he's, he's been caught. He's been caught. So, okay, so he's incarcerated trying to get, trying to get himself out of prison or get his sentence to reduce him.

He's trying to mitigate his culpability. He's trying to reduce the amount of time he's going to have to serve in prison by giving people up. By, by giving up his enemies. Or what, what my people in the comments, like. to say, ratting. He's snitching. Okay. Well, I like to say cooperation.

Whatever. So this, of course, causes a big problem because now the Gulf and the Zetas, you got internal strike within the Gulf. You got stripe between the Gulf and the Zetas. So finally, the Zetas is like, you know what? Screw this. We're just taken over. And so this precipitates the crisis that results in the number three guy for the Zetas.

Because at this point, Z1's already been killed. C2's already been apprehended. So now Z3 takes over, a guy named Las Cano. Well, Las Cano takes over, and you've got a period of just uncomfortable relations between the two groups. Later on, within a few years, when Zetas completely break away, and that's where you're going to have what ultimately became the big clash of the Titans, essentially. Right. But this is that signature event that started this down this walkway,

where De Zetas quickly began to suspect that Cardenas, be cooperating because there's caches of cash that are getting discovered that only he would have known about that he's giving you know because he's and cardness ends up turning over you know tens of millions of dollars and so now it's like even if individuals are getting knocked off nobody's given up the cash stashes right and so they quickly figure out hey something is a miss cardinus's cooperation which plants the seeds that ultimately result in what becomes the rupture between the Gulf cartel and its Zeta allies.

And all it is turmoil, of course, works to Sinaloa's benefit. Because now that they've got these groups infighting with each other, now they send in their gunmen. So once again, they were constantly destabilizing and stealing territory. And so while they weren't ultimately able

to capture the first two, Rinos or Matamotos, they were ultimately able to come to an agreement with Nuevalorado. which is like just an enormous plum. Thus, by 2006, you know, Lois sitting pretty. They had control of 800 miles at the border,

two dozen ports of entry, complete control of the methamphetamine market. They had taken over the bulk of the cocaine market. They had adopted several new additional plazas when the unexpected happened. And 2006 was the year that, there is a president that gets elected in Mexico named Calderon. And Calderon won what was a highly contested election. Some say it was actually stolen. And so he came in very weakened. And so in this

weakened condition, he turned to the Americans for assistance. This is when George Bush and his administration were in the midst of his war in Iraq. And so they had that wartime mentality. And so Calderon, in order to shore up his standing within the Mexican community, and with the Americans, comes in and declares war on the cartels. So now, what's interesting about this is Calderon declares war on December of 06. He appoints as the security, there's an individual that's the equivalent of the FBI in Mexican government, the public minister for state security, one of those type of job titles. Well, the guy he puts in charge is a man named Genera Luna.

Well, what's interesting about Luna is he'd been on the payroll of Sina Loa for five years. Yeah, he does, doesn't make him super solid for the... Well, it makes him very solid for the guy that are paying him. Yeah. So as soon as Calderon takes office, Luna gets made their equivalent of FBI director. Zambada sends his brother to go make a delivery to Luna. Here's several more million. Congratulations on your appointment.

Right? Like, we're still good, right? So now what did Luna do? He goes to Caldera and says, you know, we've declared war on the cartels. Let's send our men into Wattas. Is there anybody in Warras? Well, what is the people Sinaloa fighting? Oh, okay.

So they launched and they said... We'd have to get these drug dealers off the street. They sent 3,400 soldiers into Wattas. They sent 2,500 into Tijuana. They sent another 2,000 in the Nuevlarado. You know where they never went? Sinolaoa. That's right.

They never went Sinaloa. There's nothing. in there anyway. There's no one there. Yeah. And so they stayed away from Guadalajara. They stayed away from Sinaloa. They send in the troops.

Now the troops, of course, are, for the Sinaloa guys, they're sitting back, letting the Mexican military now essentially clean up for them. Wipe out their enemies, yeah. Yes. And so this creates, again, that same type of destabilization dynamic. We're now they're able to come in and say, hey, look, we're here. We're operating. And if you've got a problem, Mexicans are going to come in.

Right. Because they could just pick up the phone and call. Luna. Right. And so over the course of that next year, they started, I mean, it was like 3,000 guys, 4,000 guys, 5,000. I mean, at some point, they've got like 10, 12,000 men in each of these cities, essentially the Mexican military is in a full-on engagement, a crackdown on the cartels, that ultimately results in being a windfall for Sinaloa. Doesn't the, doesn't, I mean, I guess, like, you know, but I like to think that you would think that, like, the Americans would have their pulse on what's happening.

Like, don't they see that this is what's happened? Like, we're not getting rid of this. We're just, you know, like, don't they under, they see the strategy or does it take years later for them to realize, like, fuck, this is what have, like, doesn't, does it the president of Mexico realize, like, this isn't eliminating anything at this point, the drug activity? This is, you know, in the, you know, whenever there's politics involved, things don't make sense. Right. And for Calderon, it was a way to shore up credibility with the electorate.

The American government, upon him doing what he was doing, said, we know we're going to put together in a support package. It was called one of those, like, Meridia initiative. And I end up giving these guys like one and a half billion dollars. They're funding the Calderon administration, who's relying on Luna to attack the cartels. Luna is taking millions from Sinaloa. So all that American money is coming. in to wipe out Sinaloa those enemies. And so it turns into a situation where it's almost like a comedy skit. Right.

Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. Yeah. And so you would think that, like, here's the thing though, sometimes, I mean, my understanding is, look, first of all, you're not going to get rid of the guys, right? Unless you just wipe out everybody. But if one group is in charge and you can limit the amount of violence,

then it does it you're moving you're moving stuff across the border you're flooding your your little towns with money as long as they're not you know shooting each other and shooting civilians and everything and they're really just flooding the area with money and and importing or sorry exporting drugs to the Americans like in a way it's like what does it matter like you know what I'm saying like it's a good thing well that was the state of the state of affairs up until about 2000. Okay. Like, had the Gulf not initiated an effort to wipe out the other cartels.

Right. They would, I mean, that was essentially the model for decades. The Mexican political structure didn't care. There's don't keep the stuff in Mexico, send it on to the Americans. All right. And everybody, they were just all pigs feeding at the same trough. Right. It was only when you started getting, you know, these personal type disputes where you couldn't

resolve the situation, you know, Acadia, Flentes, kills, Chappell brother. Right. You know, Adiano's kill, and went upon his wife. Like these kind of situations where you're not going to resolve it through a negotiation. No, I say, yeah, I've got to wipe you out completely. You have to be completely. But, you know, other than those personal disputes, had they not precipitated the conflict, you would have never received this kind of level of attention. Right. And so

what worked to Senolo's benefit is when their FBI director said, you know what? Lafamil Micho Kana, let's take them out. Well, that's the local group in Mitrokan. Right. You know what I mean? So they just started rolling up these other organizations that resulted in a greater

consolidation of Senaloa power. And the one that they started focusing a lot of their attention on were the Zetas. Because like I said earlier, de Zetas were not naturally a drug trafficking group. They were a paramilitary wing providing protection. And so when they took over,

they didn't control territory so much as they just controlled rackets and so and given their extreme level of violence they became a natural target so as long as you've got someone that you can deflect attention to you know

the people who've seen a lot looked reasonable compared to the Zetas and so they were able to say hey look we're not causing you any problems we're just responding to their provocations meanwhile we're also giving you guys millions of dollars in cash. So it was an easy maneuvering for Luna and those other politicians on the take to say, hey, you know, let's focus on these other groups. And so by 2008, you now have the

Mexican government literally at war with three, if now four, the cartels that were the direct enemies of Sinaloa. Okay. And so you've got the Americans targeting them, Mexican military targeting them, Sina Lua's gunmen's targeting them. And while all this is going on, they're just rolling in the dough at this point. Right. Another development that Calderon pursued that really changed the character of the drug war was

when he approved the extradition of Mexican nationals to the United States, even if they're facing a life sentence. See, prior to 2006, the only Mexicans who can get extradited to the U.S. were individuals who were not facing life or capital charges. Right. Well, the Mexican Supreme Court changed that rule

and said, well, you can send them, even if they're facing a life sentence. And that caused a fundamental change because before the guys, when they were surrounded, like, okay, go to jail for a few years. Yeah, yeah. Get out. We get to be, we get to bring in hookers and see our family and have babies and eat like kings. And that's, yes. And so their experience in prison is fundamentally different than how yours was in prison. Right. Well, that changed after 2006. In fact, one of the, of the first things he did to demonstrate to the Americans how serious he was, he sent 150 guys to the United States. And that's how Armando Valencia ended up in prison with us, or with me,

excuse me, you. And that's how what Obama ended up, that's how Javier Torres. I mean, like, all of a sudden, Osir Cardinus, just these enormous drug lords who before went peacefully to Mexican prison thinking, okay, they're going to do their ears there. All of a sudden, now they get double cross and essentially end up in American prisons, well, from that point forward, the guy's on the street back in Mexico or saying, hey, they're not going. Right. They're fighting to death. That's where we started getting these shootouts. That's where you start getting these extraordinary shootouts. And it results into a militarization of the cartels against the Mexican government. And that's where you start getting these blatant attacks of soldiers, ambushes, which of course

starts reciprocal escalation. Pretty soon, you've got Mexican military personnel flooding these cities because they're dealing with just an onslaught of attacks. And so Calderon's decision to start extraditing really not only changed the drug war, but it also, again, benefit of Sinaloa. Why do you say it? Because they had the FBI director in their pocket. So they're the right thing.

Just go arrest all these people and send them out of the country. I mean, it's all fun in games when somebody else is getting extradited. It's not fun with you. Right. But they're just banking on not getting caught. Or if they are going to get caught, go out in a shootout. Right. Well, and they keep getting raided.

They're rating everybody else, all these other states and not their states. So, and then they have the heads up. Like, they're not going to raid sent a lower and we're safe here on the mountains. We're good. We're never going to get caught up. There was like a funny story where one of the DEA agents couldn't understand how did Chapo keep escaping. Right. And they're like, and one of them joked around.

saying, well, there isn't a word in Spanish for surrounding. Right. Like, they never surrounded the house. He got out the back door. He got out the back door. It's like, wouldn't you surround the building before you go in? And, of course, they were always tipped off.

And so, you know, they went through the efforts of pretending to be Johnny on the spot just so they can keep the money coming in from the United States. But in reality, we now know they're completely protected. And we only came to know that because they're in China. Apple's trial, it came out to light that this guy was on to take. Right. So then subsequently, he was ultimately arrested because he made the mistake of moving to Miami.

So they were able to grab him. Like he retired with his millions, moved to Miami. He snatched him up. Can you imagine? You've done all this. And you thought, I've pulled it off. You're kicked back. You're playing fucking shuffleboard.

He's a private security guard. He's private security consultant. So he's collaborating with the CIA. He's collaborating with federal rules. I'm even deeper. I've been deeper. deeper deeper and so yeah he's he recently went to trial he was convicted he's looking at life and so in fact his story would be a great patreon and so uh yes and so long as he was in a position

to deflect for them once again they were the beneficiaries so it's kind of gives you a little sense of how you were able to create such an enormous juggernaut because it's it wasn't simply just serendipity. Right. It was actually orchestrated through primarily, you know, corruption, but to a lesser extent, violence. With the corresponding benefit of removing from the equation, pretty much most of Sinaloa's enemies. Hey, real quick, just wanted to let you guys know that we're looking for guests for the podcast. If you think you'd be a good guest, you know somebody, do me a favor.

You can fill out the form. the link is in our description box, or you can just email me directly. Email is in the description box. So back to the video. After the leader of the Gulf cartel was extradited through the United States in 2007, the fact of Ocelo Cardinus' cooperation

became publicly known. That's what prompted the Zetas to completely just go to war against the Gulf. Right. Because at this point, a number of their high-ranking individuals were already knocked off, presumably because of Cardinness cooperation.

boatloads of money had already been lost and so for them they're like you know what screw this we're not going to be listening to these flunkies anymore and so what you had was a military campaign against the Gulf where the Zetas essentially

took over that cartel this of course works to Sinaloa's benefits because the Zetas at this point had created so much attention from the government that they essentially declare war against that particular cartel, not just the crooked FBI director they have down there, but the government itself, the Calderon administration, is like,

look, we got to take these individuals out because they're just literally going on rampages or there are, you know, multiple dozen police officers getting killed. They're just dumping the bodies out there. I mean, it was just, you know, the kind of actions that make no sense. Right. and the greater the atrocities, the more attention, and the more of a pretext it gives them to say,

you know what, we're going to focus all our attention over here. So while you've got the northeast of Mexico being completely destabilized as these two groups are going to war with each other, you had an event out in Sinaloa that was critical in the sense that it was the first of the main... Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size, whether you're taking over,

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Okay. And so when he gets taken down, the rest of the people within his group suspect Guzman of having double-crossed him. Ah, okay. Now, from all of the information that's been publicly revealed concerning this, that wasn't the case. He just had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But it's not like it's, it's not like it's beneath. Yes, that's what the other guys, that's how. And so that is the conclusion they immediately drew.

Right. And so, you know, the Beltran Levas, you have to understand, when Guzman assigned responsibility to Beltran, it's his cousin, you put together Los Negros, you put together the power military wing, and start pushing up. Well, Beltran Leva accumulated a lot of power. He basically controlled all of Arizona's border, all the New Mexico's border. he handled much of the corruption

and so at some point they're thinking you know it wouldn't be beyond a payoff for Guzman to have done what they were suspecting him of having done right turns out he didn't do it though

but you know you operate with the information that was known Arturo drew the conclusion that he was responsible so that precipitates Arturo now to launch an attack on Guzman they kill his son

so now this of course precipitates an enormous blood feud. Blood feud. And this is within Korsina Loa, and this isn't Federation. Because at this point, the Federation is already a little bit in tatters because the outer proximities are starting to realize that our benefits no longer outweigh the cost of being associated with these guys.

And so the first of the Korsenaloa group decides, you know what, we're breaking off on our own. Well, Belta and Leva, a very powerful faction of the Korsina Loa group, enters into an alliance with the Zetas. Remember, he's the one who had Nueva Laredo. Right. So he has a working relationship already. So he leaves and joins forces with them. And so this is the first of the splintering of Korsena Loa because you lose one of the main factions.

Right. And it was. it was a collapse based on a flawed assumption. Like this is what we were talking about earlier while you can't engage in fraud. Right. Because there are certain things that are just beyond your control. This is one of those events

that nobody could have contemplated. Right. Okay. And so this causes these two guys to start going to war. Now, a year later, the head of the Valencia organization, his brother, Oscar Valencia, he gets arrested.

just a mid-level guy but he was a core associate of Cordonel's ring so now Oscar Valencia falls out of the way a year later here comes Cordonel

Cordonel ends up up in this bad jam see and this is the way you know so this is pretty much the the whole organization is crumbling at this point right

right? That's you know at this point it's the deception of Guzman that is causing a lot of these issues. Like, he marries Nacho Coronel's niece. Emma Coronel is Nacho's niece.

So he forms this alliance. They call the Alianza de Sangre, the Blood Alliance. Okay. So he gets really close to the guy, then he wipe him out. And so this is what... He wipes out his wife's... Uncle? Uncle?

Yeah. I think he was a good husband. I mean, you think... It's a good family man. That doesn't seem like a good family man. And the thing is, he doesn't, you know, he's maintaining the position. No, no, no, no. It wasn't him, of course.

But this is the one that really caused a problem for them because within the structure of the cartel, Dr. Cordonell was the third most powerful figure. Right. And he was the most powerful of the non-core Senaloa. Everybody else was from Senaloa. He wasn't. He's operating independently.

He's in Guadalajara. So, like, he's got control of the money. laundering capital. It's got control of all of the labs. He's got control of the ports. Cordonell? Okay. So from Guzman's perspective, this guy's got to go. Well, I mean, from Guzman's, I mean. That's the way he operated. He, now where, if he, he had the guy killed, like, it's going to make an awkward Thanksgiving or Christmas. It's going to be weird family functions. That's going to be, right? Like, don't you think? Cordonell lived in the Beverly Hill section. You're not going to take part in this at all, are you?

No, Kodernal lived in, like, the Beverly Hills section of Guadalajara. Okay. He lived there for, like, a 10 years. So when they went to arrest, like, how are you looking for him? You've known where he's been for years. Right. And so when they went to go arrest the guy, they brought like 200 soldiers. Like, they weren't taking him alive.

Right. Because he's bribing everybody. And so he was one of those circumstances where they went to go get him and he had to die in a shootout. Yeah, because he doesn't want to end up in a U.S. prison. He's not trying to go with him. the military guys are trying to kill him. Yeah.

Because they're not taking him into jail because he'll just start talking. Right. Coronel's not taking that chance. He's going out shooting. So you have this, you know, the shootout in the middle of Guadalajara, which resulted in him getting killed.

Well, about a couple years earlier, when the Zeta started retaliating, they started coming into, they started adopting Ceno Loa tactics, like heating up the plaza. So they started sending their people into Vetta Cruz. They started sending their people into Baralajara.

And so what Coronel did is he put together his own military wing. Snow, snow good when the rabbits got the gun. Well, yes. And so, like, you had Barbie with Los Negroes. Okay, working for Batra and Lava. Well, Coronel put together his crew. Now, his crew took the name Matazetas, the Rosetta killers. So it wasn't very imaginative.

Well, you know, so. And so you had the two main organizations. You had Coronel and you had the Valencia group. And so they put together their essentially their groups of hitmen into a paramilitary unit. And so Coronel assigned his nephew to oversee the entire operation.

Oscar Valencia assigned Armando Valencia's son-in-law to be like the captain. So Coronel's the general, the nephew's the colonel, the son-in-law is the captain. Well, the son-in-law is Menchel. Oh, yeah.

Minchot was, I don't know, I think, is he dead now? No. alive and the thing about MENCHO hiding or something because like he was huge for a while he's totally enormous okay well I don't know I don't know yeah you're a thing about Mention last I was heard he was in last I was heard he was in prison I mean I'm sorry we were in prison talking about him and reading articles on him but I thought for sure these guys don't have a very long shelf life no he's still he's still he's still operating well he's taken

sorry remember the uh the transcript where he calls up the chief of police and he's like I'm fucking gut you like a dog. Who are you thinking you're saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And he's on the phone threatening him for sending in some cops or something to went somewhere. He's like, who do you think I am? He's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And we didn't know it was your product.

We're sorry. Just the team of police. Yes. And so they put together their own paramilitary unit called the Matazetas. And that's where Mentiono now was assuming some authority. before he'd been the head of the security detail for the Valencia's, but now he's basically got his own little militia that are beneath him. And so Cordonell starts dispatching these guys to start attacking the Zetas.

And so when Cordonell gets killed, that was the main event that really caused the collapse of Sinaloa, because one, his nephew and his son and his people formed an alliance with and his people and said, you know what? We're breaking away from Khorra Sinaloa. We're going on our own. And they called themselves the new generation. Right.

And so for the first six months of the new generation, they essentially fought Sinaloa just to push them out of Haleisco. Like initially it was just Halesco. They're like, we're going to operate here. We'll be with you guys, but stay out of our territory. And so what was the genesis of today's probably the most powerful

cartel in Mexico had its beginnings because of this foolish move on the part of Guzman taking out natural Coronel when quite frankly the entire time Coronel was completely loyal

like he was loyal to the Federation he just simply accumulated too much power and too much independence Okay, so by 2012, the new cartel had been born and had begun consolidating power. And so they started out in Halisco, soon they took over Kalima, soon they took over Niyadi, and Sinaloa started getting a little concerned

in the sense that you're losing control of certain assets, like they lost the two ports. And so what ends up happening is they end up having a fight between these two groups. And so things have begun slipping away that the most powerful syndicate in the history of

the drug trafficking world was no longer as formidable. You had, and we have a map that you can show the audience, and there's, you know, the Zetas have the entire East Coast.

Sinola has the West Coast, but now you see a chunk in the middle. And so by 2010, the chunk is like this big. By 12, it's this big. By 15, it's big. You know what I mean? You start seeing how this new generation begins to metastasize because they not only have control of the ports, they inherited the cordonel operation with respect to the precursor chemicals coming from China. and so they have the ability to produce without sharing

and so even if you cut them off from the Colombians they're still independently able to continue generating revenue right and so where the new generation makes their mistake and this is now in 2015 is where you had the episode where Mention was on the phone talking with the police chief

well during that time period Sinola was trying to get the Mexican authorities to take out Mencho and there were attempts to try to apprehend him well they send in 5,000 guys the new generation people end up killing several dozen of them in one attack

they send in the helicopters they shoot the copters out of the sky I mean and so this is this is the this is the fucking this is the what the Montezetas turn new generation Yeah, like they, it's their own private, it's their own private military and they're, this is the, the government coming in with the military, the, the Mexican military coming in to try and capture them, they're, they're blowing fucking helicopters out of the sky.

Like, they're, is this when they like would flip over cars and set things on, they're setting buses on fire or like, rant just vehicles? Like, they're just setting things on fire, you know, knocking the vehicles over to create the impediments to block the, the, the, the action. access ways, and then what they would do is they'd run in and they started firebombing banks. This is military, like this is military kind of, you know, strategy. Because it creates chaos because they blow the safes, the vaults off the safe, or the doors off the vaults, so they can, people who start running in and start stealing money. So now it's just pandemonium because there's money flying everywhere. They're bombing banks, they're bombing buildings, they're burning buses.

And so that creates the distraction necessary for their leaders to get away. I was just like, is this the one where literally, wasn't, didn't it at one point, Like the president, it was so bad that the president said, let him go. They were after somebody. And that was later on. Okay. This was going to say, this is more recently. Or they actually did the same type of thing where they went after someone.

And it got so bad, the president said, stop, pull back, let this guy go. Like, it was, like civilians are being murdered and killed. Things are on fire. Buildings are on fire. Banks are on fire. They're flipping over cars. Fuck it. Pull back.

Let the guy go. You imagine? It's so bad that, I mean, I can't ever imagine the United States that things get so bad that They say, you know what? Let that guy go. Like, that was just, that's just not. But then we don't have things. We don't have these guys here.

Well, and then that's correct. Or the guy that are here are under strict orders to never do that. Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've just been in general, like the American, like, I can't imagine that the Okeechobee Sheriff's Department would back off. Like, oh, I don't know.

Although, you know what? Although, like, they do it in car chases. Yes, that's different. You know, sometimes there's a car chase and they're like, hey, it's so dangerous. Fuck it. Let it this guy go. going to kill somebody. Yeah, when the helicopter incident happened, I remember I spoke to Valencia about it.

I'm like, what are you guys doing, man? Like, that's, that's beyond the pale because, you know, you're provoking the Americans to get involved at that point. Because from their perspective, if you're shooting down Mexican helicopters, how do they know you don't get those shoulder fire missiles into Los Angeles and shoot out of 747? Right. That's how, you know, that's from an American intelligence operative perspective or law enforcement, perspective, you've got to neutralize that threat.

And so here you had seen a little with their group, all of a sudden saying, you know what, as bad as they may be, they're not shooting helicopters out of this guy. Right. And so the new generation kind of fell into the trap that the other groups did. And, you know, where they have the mistake in, well, 2015 is an important year because that's the year where the government catches chopper. Guzman and so he's out of the picture the new generation creates this spectacle they now get

all the law enforcement attention Guzman escapes so now the government is like scrambling they're trying to catch Guzman but they got these other maniacs over here that they got to deal with what do you mean escapes he skipped the first time the second time remember he does the one with the tunnel yeah I understand but he we hadn't talked about him even getting arrested I just mentioned to you how the fact that he gets arrested okay in Yes, he ended up getting arrested. Okay. Yeah, I think it would be good to break down how he gets arrested and how he escapes.

Yeah. That's probably a good 10-minute story. That's a sexy story, bro. That's a sexy story. We like that. Okay, okay. He's a good husband, good father. He's a decent human being.

It's a nice guy and he ends up getting arrested. It's a tragedy. It's just a hardworking, you know, peasant, you know, made good. Okay, so while you have all this spectacle taking place down in Heliscoe, The authorities were able to get a lead on Chapa Guzman and ultimately arrest him. And he didn't have tunnels or? You know, they were able to get away. Is this when he was the girlfriend?

When he went to, they found out. He was with the mistress. Mistress. Didn't sound like a good man. And so he, they had a tunnel underneath the bathtub. Right. So he's naked running through the tunnels. Him and the girls, girls naked, they pop up in the street.

You know, they're naked. They flagged down a car. boom, they take off. And so it's this whole little chase where they ultimately catch this guy. And what was interesting about was mine, of course, one of, he's obviously in the company of a woman

that's not his wife, so he's got problems at home. But, you know, so they take him to the same jail that he had previously escaped from. Right. So he's already familiar with the landscape. So his wife reaches out

to one of her cousins who was a high-ranking individual within a new generation and makes an arrangement with him say, hey, look, we need to bust my husband out. How long has he been arrested by this? He looks in six months. Oh, I didn't know if it was years.

No, he gets arrested. Like in January by June, they had the huge celebratory party at the prison in California. You had 900 pises out on the yard dancing, singing, everybody's cheering. Wait, everybody in the prison, they knew Chappo got out and just having a...

Oh, it was a huge celebration. Like as soon as it came, it came out. Because in California, the majority of the prisoners are Hispanic descent. Yeah. The majority is, so out of like 1,800 men, you'll have like 1,100 guys that are either Mexican nationals or Mexican Americans. And the majority of them are cartel-related. And so it was just this enormous celebration when he escaped. So how did he escape?

This is what always kills me is the tunnel. Yes, well, the tunnel was built. They bought a property right outside of the property. prison. Like half a mile to a mile. And tunnel. Did they buy this? They bought this property like after you got arrested or they already.

So they went to say, okay, we had to find some property. So they found a property like a little bit of waste from the prison. They bought the house. Bringing the team of engineers. The same engineers that are building these tunnels at Tijuana. No, no. It's a different dude. You don't know.

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, Chappos fucking, we know, think about this. You're half a mile away, maybe a mile, whatever it is, half a mile away. half a mile away, let's say, we know his cell is here. We're going to dig a fucking tunnel from here, half a mile, and end up in his shower. Where you cannot see it from the video camera. Like, we're going to come out exactly where there's a half wall in the shower where you cannot see it from the video camera.

That's a motherfucking engineer, bro. Like, that dudes, that's some math work. I mean, that's new. Well, and now, so I had to take into consideration the fact that they were moving him. Oh, they're okay. So his wife brought him a watch. That's awesome. She ended up getting charged later on because she brought him a watch and they were able to use like a little tracker.

Like, oh, okay. So they're under the prison adjusting that like how often they can do. Yeah. Makes me think of. Did you see Good Citizen or there was a movie called like Good Citizen where the guy, he's escaping from the prison. He gets him saying he's thrown in prison and things are happening all over the place. and they're like, well, he's, he's got to be there. They're like, no, he's locked up.

And they're like, uh, move his cell. And they move his cell. Like, they're moving him around and stuff. Well, eventually they realized that he knew he would be in that prison and he actually has dug all the cells out. Like, there's like, whatever, 12 or whatever. They're all cells that he can get out of and break out of. And so they end up bringing the tunnel, like I said, a half mile to a mile,

ventilated. They laid tracks in there. So the guy can jump, and he literally rode a motorcycle out. And so upon his release, of course, that was an enormous black eye. Right. How much do you think it costs the cartel to get that engineer to build that tunnel? Those tunnels are usually going to cost you anywhere from a million to $2 million per tunnel. That's Mexican.

That's with a bunch of Mexicans digging the tunnels. But this is a different operation. it was probably more expensive because normally when they like when they started building the tunnels they induced a group of workers to come work build a tunnel and they just kill the guys so they didn't help me they didn't have to pay them

yeah take them out the desert have them dig some fucking holes and then shoot them all in the head and but on this one this was a engineering feat that required professionals and they did it in a couple months right yeah a few months it's insane

yeah it's the it's the pyramid thing, you know? What's that? It's that, you know, the pyramids, like, they have the pyramids in Egypt, like, nobody believes that the pyramids in Egypt were built by the Egyptians. They're like, it has to be alien technology or so aliens or something. They couldn't build these. But there are pyramids in Mexico.

Nobody doubts the Mexicans built those things. Mexicans are amazing. I don't know fucking anything. We even questions it. Sorry That's a TikTok Go What are you doing?

I just have it fun All right Okay, so When Chappo Guzman escapes That, of course, causes a tremendous amount of embarrassment for the Mexican government And

It takes the heat off of the new generation. Now, During, separate of all of this, in 2015, and I'm going to say it just one time, defense in all crisis in the United States had become acute. And the problem was primarily of Chinese origin. The overwhelming majority of cases were being shipped from China to the United States, of the material. And so the American administration, Trump administration, negotiated a deal with Xi Jinping,

the president of China. and persuaded them to allow the American Postal Service to work hand-in-hand with China Post to reduce the amount of material coming into the United States. And so now, this, of course, was something that the Chinese didn't want to abide by because it's a lucrative market. So what did they do? They reach out to the Mexicans and say, hey, what if we send you to precursors?

Right. You manufacture it there. Well, they're already running a series of labs. I mean, there was, you know, well over 100 labs operating in the methamphetamine context. Right. So now they're just simply saying,

you know what, we can just start producing the material there. And so that was the structure of what was the genesis for that particular opioid. Now, you'll notice they were working with the new generation. At this point, it's got nothing to do with CNA law. And so, for the,

the next six months, Guzman's running wild, you know, because at this point, you've got a full core press trying to find him. And so this kind of takes the heat off the new generation. They're focusing on Guzman. Meanwhile, the new generation starts building this new capacity.

Because they already had the business relationships with the precursor traffickers in China. They're working with the 14K, not only in the money laundering context, but they're also working with the triad in the precursor context. This is just another arrow under quiver. Right.

And so you slowly start seeing this buildup. About six months later, Guzman gets arrested. He gets taken out of the picture. You know, their decision at that point was, you know, we're going to send them to the United States. That was the, that was, um, Sean Penn. The Sean Pinned, Sean Pinn thing where he had, Guzman had kind of like a crush on a, an actress.

Kate, Kate Del Castillo. And so he's, you know, he's, you know, he's, sweet on her and so Sean Penn connects with her to to and agrees that he wants to interview the Sean Penn the actor wants to interview chopo so he speaks with the with the Mexican female the actor actress and she she's already talking with Guzman correct and so she ends up they end up happy she ends up saying look I got this guy that wants to meet you he wants to interview you, blah, blah, blah. So they actually have, they arrange a meeting. Well, aren't the Mexicans tracking Sean Penn? The Americans. The Americans are tracking Sean Penn. Not tracking him.

The phones. Okay. Well, and so I just remember reading the article in Rolling Stone Magazine where when they go to do the meet, they tell him you got to get in the trunk of the car. And he's like, oh, that's not part of the deal. And they're like getting the fucking trunk of the car. Like, it's like, oh, right then you get thrown in the trunk of a car or something like that? Like he's like, didn't see that coming at all and like they're throwing a bag over his head all they said suddenly it's like oh this is getting real yeah you know and they drive them around and whatever and they bring them to where chopo is and did was it that that got him caught specifically or was just the phone it was the phones that they're tracking of it I mean obviously he didn't have anything to do with it

he didn't know any of this was happening yeah he had no idea and he interviews Sean Penn I mean Sean Penn interviews him writes a whole article and everything but how the government know that he was going to go see him this probably probably NSA fucking knows everything bro released what prompted them to become suspicious because you know she was a famous actress

right she played a drug lord in a novella and so every drug trafficker in Mexico had a crush on this girl right I mean and so she was trying to build like a tequila brand was one of those type of things

and so next thing you know she's talking to an intermediary and she ends up getting into this prospective business relationship she ultimately became under investigation and mexican cleared her but like it's you knew what you were doing they just didn't they got bigger problems they got bigger problems than an actress her trying to get her trying to get el chopper to say oh that gun you know she's trying to get a tic-tox you can shoot around and so yes and so when he removed him from the equation in 2016 that they neutralize him by putting him into prison and at this point they're like moving him every day boom boom boom no watches you know and they moved him from the prison that he's previously in to a prison closer to the border and so now he's not even in

senolore halisco anything now he's like in just outside of texas we're not falling for the banana and the tailpipe routine it's not it's not happening again yes and so i think that point, with him out of the way, you have the new generation on the complete warpath bolstered by the new market that they were creating, which was in a synthetic opioid context. Meanwhile, Sinaloa isn't so much in disarray because at that point, Guzman really hadn't been exercising much authority. He's been spending all his time running around, avoiding the authorities and hooking up with this actress. And so his sons had stepped up

to take over his organization. And this is where the problem within the Senaloic context came in because they started embracing the synthetic opioids. Hey, sorry to interrupt the video. Just want to let you guys know that we're going to have

an extra 15 or 20 minutes of content on my Patreon. It's $10 a month for about an hour's worth of extra content every single week. back to the podcast. And so you had the split within the group where the old guard, you know, the Zambata types,

they didn't want anything to do with the synthetic opioids. You had this huge problem in the United States and it was going to increase by orders of magnitude and it has. And the older guys are like, hey, we don't want nothing to do with this. The younger guys are like, hey, we're not listening to you guys. And so you had actually a split within Sina law.

So you've got the Chapo-related individuals, not Guzman Senior, Guzman Juniors, essentially they call them the Los Chapitos. These guys. Where does that mean? Little Chapos. Little Chapos. Oh. Yeah.

So Los Chapitos. I bet they love that. They embraced. Did they? Well, I'm not sure about the name, but I'm sure they embraced the particular compound. And that that has caused nothing but problem. for that particular syndicate because at this point, they've collapsed

to where you've got essentially two different groups. That's why I previously indicated that when the government talks about Sinaloa cartel, there's no Sinaloa cartel. There's a handful of groups that are involved in the synthetics. There's the remainder that want nothing to do with it.

Now, the incident you were talking about earlier is when Guzman's son gets apprehended. Okay. And that's when they reached out to Zambada and somebody said, okay, we're going to bail you out of trouble, but this is it. So they sent all their men into the actual city, and the police chief had to back down and said to let the guys go.

But that was the last instance where you really had any coordination between the two groups. And so today, the landscape in Mexico is just fundamentally different than what it was 10 years ago, much less 30 years ago. And going forward, what we're essentially waiting on is, the fracturing of the new generation because they've made the same mistake that all of the other groups made other than Sinaloa because Sinaloa, like I said, it was a horizontally based organization.

New generation is vertical. Mental controls on a top-down level. And when you've got a group that's essentially a cult of personality, when you remove the guy at the top, it falls apart. It falls apart. It falls apart. There's no resilience.

to the organization, whereas the previous one, you had a 30-year run. Now, you would think they would adopt the 30-year run model. Yes, but that's the, that requires having the franchise model, where we're saying, well, we're going to delegate responsibility for certain areas of responsibility to you and entrust you with it. Yeah. You know, that's a very enlightened manner in which to conduct organized crime. And essentially, the only group that ever operates on that principle,

are the Chinese. Israelis don't. The Russians don't. The Italians don't. I've known men from each of those groups. They're all top-down, very control-oriented. Whereas in the Chinese context, they value the individuals

who are able to operate outside of their group, which is how Sinaloa operated for decades. Right. Because in the end, the men that are important aren't the guys in Mexico. Mexico are the Cary's, or the Danes, or in my case, Robles, or Aria, or any of these guys that are the American-based distributors. So Chappo got moved to the United States, went to trial, lost, obviously.

He's in ADX now. He's in ADX, yes. So was it the Mexican government who went and got El Chappo? well or yeah their military went swooped and grabbed and why are they taken to the united states because they know eventually eventually they know he'll escape they can't take the kind of embarrassment so they're just like good at the united states so he he's got fucking 50 different indictments you know like he's wanted by the united states and they're like look we can't like even if we we we find him guilty which they will here's one of like this one here just all these guys

well he's at the very top and so in college truth is there yeah That way, it's just... Well, I was going to say, like, even if they, even they convict him and give him a life in prison in Mexico, at some point, he's going to convince a group of guys to bust him out or pay a guard or something. He's going to get out and it, like, how embarrassing is it? You've already proven you cannot keep this guy in a Mexican prison. And so they're like, you know, he's so much trouble. Give him to the Americans. And it's just, it terrifies every other drug lord to get caught.

Of course, you know, they fight back way harder. But it's like, it's getting more and more serious. It's letting them know, look, we'll hand you over the fucking Americans. Like, it's like, Jesus. Like, with him, he was, when they stormed, he was reaching for his AK-47. Right. He's ready to go out in a blazer glory. But he had his wife and his kids there.

Right. And so his wife's the one who's screaming, like, oh, no, he's the, you know, father are my children. Right. You know what I mean? He's got his little girls there. He's, like, trapped. Whereas, you know, absent that circumstance, I'm sure he wouldn't have, he'd have. he'd have gone to natural cordonel route right well I mean now he's an ADX you know what

ADX is so it's in Florence Colorado correct it's a supermax yeah Florence Colorado yeah like it's it's it's it's a supermax like you can't get any higher I mean it's just and that's where he is it's no it's supposedly it's like no contact like you have a shower that moves from from from cell to cell so you get to take a shower uh when you the you know they like strap you down and handcuff you and everything if you have to see the doctor like Everybody's coming to your room. You're not leaving your room, really. I think you probably get out at some point.

It's like 23-hour lockdown. But after you've been, it's like a step-down program. Right. After you've been there for a few years, they start allowing like limited interactions. Interaction. They're giving you a little baby, you know, baby incentives to be good. But not that you could be bad. But the other thing is like supposedly like you don't get mail.

They scan all your mail. You read it on a monitor. Like, I mean, it's, it's just so overwhelmingly controlled. it honestly it's like to me it's it's fucking horrific like you know but then again these are the most horrific people too and the people that go there are i mean i'm assuming are mostly licenses yeah they're like like um well most of the guys well a good number of individuals the maximum security level are doing like sentences yeah these are the individuals who cannot function in even a maximum security level context so whether they're you know hardcore gang members that

just terrorists can't program individuals like terrorists that they want to segregate from the population um also large drug lords no wedopoma was there ocel cardinus was there unabomber wasn't unabomber there bomber when unabomber was there you know he's a homegrown terrorist i don't know if you know ted kaczynsk unbelievable this guy and i don't i tell you right now i'm i'm i'm half a fucking tard like i barely know anything and i i did um okay so yeah Ted Kaczynski was a, um, he basically, he believed, I forget what they call it, but he wanted to eliminate technology. He wanted us to go back to living, you know, like old, like, you know, you make everything,

kind of like, you know, you're make everything. There's no technology, anything. By the way, this is the guy who went to, was it, was it a MIT? One of them type of schools like UC Berkeley or whatever. Yeah. This guy's super smart. He was like a, I think he was even a professor or for a little bit, but he, he, You know, he was super smart, but something's not right.

And he would write these manifestos and these long, long-winded articles or essays about how we were destroying the planet and all these things, right? So eventually he starts making, he saves up some money, he buys a cab in the middle of nowhere, and he starts making bombs and sending them to airlines. And so, you know, one time they get a package and open it up and like the secretary loses her fingers but doesn't kill her. So he gets a little bit better. He starts mailing him and I think ultimately he may have killed four or five people, whatever. The point is is that he's getting better at it and it's, you know, it's terrorism. You're blowing people and people are terrified by it.

And there were a few drawings where people were like, I saw this guy and he'd have a hoodie on and glasses and he could tell he hadn't shaved or whatever. he looked rugged, he's dirty, and he dropped the package off. Like they had a couple people like, you know, this guy, we saw this guy, he's kind of odd. And so they start looking for him. They've got this sketch drawing. Well, eventually he starts writing letters to the editor of a magazine, I mean, of a newspaper. And he says, hey, listen, I'm, you know, the Unabomber, and I'm going to blow up another, whatever.

And, you know, I don't think they believe him. And then something goes off. And then they think, oh, shit, we got him. He demanded to be able to write. Right. So at some point, they take him serious. And what happens is he says, I want you, I'm going to write up, I want you to publish this letter that I'm writing. It's a little man, one of his little mini manifestos, right?

So they go to the FBI and the FBI makes a decision, publish it. Now, they do change a few things, which he's furious about. But when, but ultimately what happens is it gets out there, his brother reads it. And Ted Kaczynski's brother, sorry, Ted Kaczynski's brother, explains it to his wife, shows his wife, calls like another relative, they discuss it, and I think ultimately they convince him, like, you have to call, he's killing people. I'm going to fuck his brother or not. He's killing people. Calls like the, somehow or not they, the FBI, they get in touch with the FBI, FBI shows up, and he's like, I'm telling you, it's my brother. He goes and find some paperwork in his mother or something that he had actually had examples of his writings and, you know, the way he's phrasing his sentences is whatever.

And so they look at it and they're like, oh, definitely the same guy. And so he tells them, they're like, do you know where he is? He's like, I do know where he is. And he tells him where he is. And they stake out the little shed or whatever. And eventually they come and they grab him and, you know, they go into the little shed. They actually picked up the entire shed. They put it on like a truck or a helicopter or something, actually move the whole shed.

It's his house, but it's not that big. They move it and analyze the whole thing. And I mean, it's so overwhelmingly obvious. Like he's got some of the things like the boards and stuff to make the devices like it's like carved out of wood. And, you know, and even some of the some of the wires and stuff he'd taken out of an abandoned vehicle. from a neighbor, and these neighbors are a mile away, from a neighbor who had an abandoned car that was falling apart. He actually goes in and steals wires and stuff. He has no real money. And, uh, but yeah, they put it together and he's, that's it. He's guilty. It's this. And then he actually

in ADX eventually was allowed to do get visits. And like, I don't forget that organization, but there was, he became kind of almost like a, a folklore kind of leader of this organization that they just thought he was wonderful and this organization that's put together that's basically saying we should abandon all technology and go back to farming and yeah he's yeah they would come see him and write him letters and send him money and but he was in ADX and he's just you know he died recently oh he was at Dublin oh oh yeah yeah no I know he was on the um but they kept him in shoe yeah it was in it was a death penalty case right you were locked up with him at a time he was always at the same place yeah he was kept in the shoe yeah

And so he was at he was um do you know who the Oklahoma city bomber was I've heard that okay but I don't know anything about it he he he was um what's the thing he was Timothy McVeigh he was there with Timothy McVeigh too hmm who you weren't you no no I thought you were there I thought Timothy McVeigh was no it's the Unabomber just a Unabomber oh I've been telling people you were locked up with both of them no what's wrong with that oh you're too good for Timothy McVeigh. I'm just saying I'm just saying McVeigh was just the Unabomber just you know I'm just saying McVe was just you know I'm just He was in Oklahoma, I think. I mean, well, no, it was still ended up federal, didn't it? No, but once he was convicted, he went to Tara Hook. He went to death penalty. Oh, okay. Yeah, he, he, okay, but it was, it was. Yeah, no, Unabal didn't get capital charges.

He went to ADX. Oh, okay. They went to Tara Hut. Yeah, Timothy McVeigh got, he got the death penalty. He died. It was a lethal injection, right? Well, I'll never forget the Timothy McVeigh thing. my the most

this is a horrible thing it's just I always remember the interview with him where they were like what did you think like when the bomb goes off so he put it in the federal building in Oklahoma City

he so he thought he was taking out the FBI field office which is in this building well he finds out like the day before a couple days before there's also a kindergarten daycare daycare and his

response was collateral damage. Like, oh, well, you know, so they have to die. And he drives the truck, puts it under there. It blows up. Of course, kills, I forget, 20, 30 children, and takes out a whole bunch of people in the field office, too, of the FBI. But I think that they actually had, a lot of people didn't even come in until later. And so he didn't get as many what he thought. But what I remember, the chilling thing was he, so he parks the vehicle, gets out, and he's walking away. when the bomb goes off. So he's walking to his back. Boom. Shakes everything. He said he, he said, he wait a second, turned around. He said, I kept telling myself like, don't turn around, don't turn around. And he said, finally, I just turned around and looked. And what is it? Two thirds or one third of the

building is just gone. It's just gutted. And he's, and they said, so when the FBI was questioning him, they said, what did you think at that moment? He said, I was disappointed and they said why he said I really thought I was going to be able to take down the whole building wow he said and when I saw that only 30 or 50% of it was taken down he said I I really thought I said I just you know didn't have enough you know explosives and what was this guy's story issue like why what well he did he do that he actually was in the um so he was was it the he had tried out for the Marines and failed he had He had gotten a, so he got new boots just beforehand when he went for the, to try out for the Marines.

And he ended up getting a, you know, a sore or something on his boots because they were new. And he ended up having to drop out, right? So he had been in the military, right, and he'd been in the military, right, and tried out for whatever it was, the Marines, whatever he couldn't do it, you know, for whatever reason, he, it didn't work out. And then he kind of just hung out and he had read, this is always interesting, he'd read, um, where when they caught him, he had a copy of the Turner Diaries. So he was a big believer in there would someday be a race war in the United States, right? So, you know, he's a racist. And the Turner Diaries is a fictitious book that's written by a guy named Turner about a race war in the United States.

So he had that book, and a lot of these guys have that book, a homegrown terrorist. So he had that book on him. And he actually during, what was the one, what was the branch Davidians? Where was that? In Texas. In Texas? In Waco, Texas. He was actually there when the ATF goes into the Branch Dividian complex and keeps it, and they're holding it.

And they're trying to get these guys out of this compound. But there are people that are parked up and down the street that are parking out, like watching this whole thing. They actually interview Timothy McVeigh. He's there. Wow. So they have an interview with him. So he basically drives around the United States for like a year or two, kind of hanging out after he drops out the military. And, you know, he's disenfranchised and he's probably a smart guy that life is not turning out the way he wants.

He's disappointed. He turns into a homegrown terrorist. He decides that he hates the federal government. He's disgusted. And then they've got all these things that they're reasons. They always have these reasons. Yeah. Ruby Ridge.

and the federal government's too powerful, and it's, they're taking our guns and our rights. And, you know, and there are some people like, I get that. I'm upset about that, but I'm not blowing anything up, bro. So, I mean, he ends up getting together with another guy, and they decide to start bombing things like in the, that's how kind of the race war starts in the Turner Diaries is they start blowing things up, like FBI buildings and shit. So he and another guy, they get the chemicals, they mix it all up. The one guy doesn't go through with it. Is that correct? Nichols participates and then there's a second guy who gets spooked he's like I'm not I'm not gonna do this I'm not gonna do this you know once you realize this whole shit this is for real like sitting around shooting the shit with your with your little racist buddies is you know all fun in games until somebody starts mixing up a batch of fucking gets a couple five gallon buckets and there's like and then it's like 50 gallon buckets and it's like yeah guys I'm out so he ends up renting a a vehicle a big truck right like a moving truck and he they loaded it

up with the chemicals and he drives to the Oklahoma City federal building where they have the FBI field office and he parks the vehicle right underneath the building or just kind of in the front as close as he can get it to being really underneath I think kind of in the front right and then he gets out and he sets he's got the timers and he just starts walking away and he knows it's I've got about 30 seconds to a minute. And he's a minute down the road and boom. I mean, yeah, it's and then so for all of his planning, first of all, these guys have no money. So it takes them a long time to get all the chemicals together. And had they had more money, they're the kind of knuckleheads that probably would have been, somebody probably would have realized that you're buying way

too much fertilizer, you know, for the average citizen. Somebody might have, it might have raised red flags, but it took them so long to get the, get the chemicals together that they were undetected. You know, you get a bunch of chemicals and you mix them up in the appropriate mix, and you've got yourself, you know, some, some, a big, big boom. And so he, um, they mix them up. They do a lot of research. They, it's very well planned out and thought out. And for all of that planning and thought process, the guy ends up having a vehicle that he gets into that's got like an expired tag. He doesn't have like a driver. Like he's, after the bomb, they didn't think much of it of what's happening.

And he gets pulled over. Like he gets pulled over within like the day. He gets pulled over. And I mean, it's like like an expired tag and no license. And this just falls apart. You know, it just falls apart. and they're looking for him because they start checking

all the local motels and somehow or another he's recognized or something. And they just found out of him by checking the cameras and seeing that he is the one who left to plug out. No, there's no camera.

How do they know it was then? Well, because they start checking the motels and it's like anybody who's out of town who fits this description or whatever it was and somehow or another he's on some list

or if I forget, I mean, I don't know exactly. Either way they figure out this is a person of interest and he's driving out of town and he gets pulled over. The FBI had infiltrated all those groups. Right. So I'm sure they, yes. And so on an investigation of that nature, they bring in a thousand agents. But he was caught right away.

This wasn't six months or two years later or something. Yeah. And he's pulled over and he doesn't fight it out. I think he had a weapon and everything. He doesn't shoot it out. He gets arrested. He goes downtown. He doesn't deny that he's done any of these things. He starts talking because he kind feels like I'm going to be a, um, you know, a beacon or a, a martyr to this. Inspiration. Yeah, to this group. And, you know, yeah, and we're going to start the, it's all going to be the Turner Diaries, you know, all for it. And of course, you know, it doesn't. He ends up, he actually, the FBI had not turned over a whole bunch of evidence. And he could have probably gotten a retrial and not, but he'd already gotten a death penalty. And they're like, do you want to

retrial and he said no like he was okay with dying no they were filing no they were filing on his behalf but he wasn't fighting it like to my understanding is he wasn't even really interested in having a retrial or having anything he was ready to go yeah new sentencing proceeding they were asking for right but to i mean i mean i don't know you probably know more than me but it i had heard that like they were trying to get his lawyers were trying to get overturned he wasn't concerned about getting it over turn he was like i'm ready this is it i mean to me if i had done something that horrific and killed that many people and done that to me, I'd be like, look, ultimately this is what's going to happen. And he didn't mind being an inspiration. I don't know anybody that has been

inspired. But, no, and his co-defendant was at ADX, Nichols. Oh, okay. In fact, the guy that you had spoken with wanted to come on your show, Scarpa Jr. Oh, yeah, yeah. Was in there with Nichols. Oh, yeah. And the guys that did the original bombing from 93. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, What, original bombing for what? The World Trade Center. The World Trade Center. Okay, yeah, yeah. Which, because, you know, the World Trade Center,

somebody had tried to take down the World Trade Center. And they blew up a truck and everything. Yeah, I didn't know that. I know it had caught fire before, but... Yeah, caught fire. No, they tried to bomb it. They tried to blow it up, but it didn't, it just shook the building.

It wasn't enough to... And that got tracked down because somebody had rented the van in their, like their real name, and they found... Mahmoud Aboulima or something like that. They found the VIN number. They had the VIN number. They tracked the VIN number all the way back. Rental car, boom, got him.

When they really want to bust you, they're going to figure it out. This whole, you know, all, we couldn't put the case together. Really? No. Come on, bro. When they put 100 guys on it like that, it's, you're going to come up with something. Yeah. So, yeah, so that's where Choppo is, that was a long choppo explanation.

But yeah, that's where he is right now. He's now being, you know, he's now reading all of his, he's reading all of his mail. He's got third, third to four credit. education. He's got to be miserable. Well, he's got a chance to learn to read now. I'm sure. You could figure it out now. So they're not doing tunnels and ADX? No, not in US. No. No, they've got sensors on the ground all around that. I mean, it's a that highly fortified. Yeah. I mean, most of it's subterranean already as it is. Listen, if you couldn't read and you were in there, I wonder how long it would be before you really started thinking about.

committing suicide you know what would be a good podcast is going over like prison escapes like taking like the four greatest prison escapes because i remember there was one you're talking about like hitler flying people in like oh yeah yeah uh el duchet when he he oh okay yeah yeah they get admitted like yeah yeah and and going over like the details and that'd be good but anyways yeah so i mean for all a hitler's fault he He didn't forget his friends. Oh, that guy's name?

Mussolini. Yeah, they called him El Ducce, you know? Yeah. They overthrew him, threw him in prison, and he said, and they said, hey, Hitler, you know this happened? He said, what? Not to El Ducce. Send in the paratroopers. They're landed and busted him out.

Put him back in, and then say, okay, oh, what? Now let's go back in and march back in, take the country back over, put him back in a power. Yeah. Which didn't last very long. Could you do Napoleon also. Huh? Oh, yeah, Napoleon escaped, too. Helba. Elba.

Yeah. Yeah, we'll do that one time. So let's get back to El Chapa, or the whole cartel. So he's locked up and the max, Max. Isn't that pretty much it? That's pretty much it, bro. I was just, that was just, he, Pete had gotten to the, he had talked about him getting caught and being thrown in prison. They were moving him around.

I was just, I was just letting everybody know he's been moved to the United States. Yeah. And what year was, he was arrested, what, 2015? He was arrested, well, he was apprehended the second time in 2016. And then moved to America. He was actually, landed in the United States in 2017. Yeah. And then he went to trial in 19.

Yeah. He was kept in, he went to New York for a few years, right, until eventually his trial went through. And then they moved him to. And he had, he listened. And they were, it was like, he couldn't see his wife. He could, like, they were, they barely let him have access to anything. He was having their lawyers or file in for everything. Like they, he had so little contact with anybody.

And it's, yeah. So what's the current, so the current status of the cartels? Well, as of right now, the new generation is dominant. And so long as mental remains in place, it's going to remain the same. It's, well, as indicated earlier, it's essentially a cult of personality. when you have a top-down organization like that, it's just a matter of time when the top guy falls, it's going to be a massive fragmentation.

And, you know, from the American perspective, that's an even more dangerous circumstance, because what you're going to have now is all these little groups trying to maximize profits. And this is how we ended up in the circumstances that we are, at least before, when we had an enormous superstructure 20 years ago, sure they were making a lot of money and they were flooding the product into the country

but it wasn't the fatality rate was nowhere near what it is today so you've got smaller groups having a disproportionate effect whereas before when you had a larger group well they could make their money on volume they didn't have to worry about maximizing profits per unit and so

once the new generation falls you're going to see unfortunately a tremendous spike in more American fatalities particularly so long as the Chinese continue to keep flooding them with my lot to talk about the Chinese or now you don't have to say Chinese

so long as the Triads continues supplying them with fentanyl yeah or precursor with precursors yeah hey I appreciate you guys watching the video please do me a favor and subscribe hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this also share the video.

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