Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How To Legally Avoid Paying Debts

Episode Date: February 23, 2024

How To Legally Avoid Paying Debts

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.00 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. I don't want to pay my debt. I'm going to be honest with you. I know I owe it. I know I owe $7,500.

Is there a way to get out of paying? Yes. Yes. I was born in Houston, Texas. I was raised in a small country town called Dacus, Texas. And I went to school in Montgomery. So if you blink, it's one of them small towns. If you blink, you'll miss it.

It may be bigger now. But anyway, I dropped out of high school in like the 10th grade. I was a special ed student. Didn't learn how to read until I was in the third grade. And so I had some teachers that worked with me and that were awesome. And I think they ought to make a million bucks a year. They're awesome for what they do. And so make a long story short.

But once I started learning how to read, it opened up so many worlds for me. So I got into Magic and previous to getting in collections, I had been in the mortgage business, you know, in real estate. And I had a Magic Act in Las Vegas. And when I got out of real estate. How old were you? How old were you when you had a magic act? Oh, man, I was like in my 30s.

I think I was like 36, I think. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it was, I was in Las Vegas for about six months. And it was kind of a close-up magic act. And it was actually a business that made money for us because what we would do is we had a product called Delight. If you go on YouTube and put in Broncos Delight from anywhere, you'll find it.

And we'd pull a red light out of our nose and our ears and stuff. And then people are like, oh, that's really cool. How do you do that? Well, 20 bucks, I'll show you. Then we'd sell them a bunch of magic. And so that was based on a concept that a lot of magicians have been using for many years called back of the room products. And after they do the magic show, you want to be like that magician. So you buy their little magic tricks that they have.

Right. I was on vacation one time, and I was up here visiting my family in Houston up there. And I heard one of my aunts, families. she was just going into hysterics and she was emotional as it was and I'm like man what is going on here and it was some bill collector and I'm like man who are these people you know what are they attorneys or something you know and so I decided I'm going to figure out you know what's going on here and so I after I left Las Vegas you know I decided to go ahead and just start the bill collecting thing you know and so the magic company it was kind of ran itself I had people working it for me

everything so i didn't have to be there physically all the time so i was able to go into cover for five years and i worked for some collection agencies and learn their tricks and then one day i decided to put it into a book and the rest is history as they say so how did that start with the uh once you got a job doing collections though you know how did that how that whole process you know what was the like what's the entry level what do they teach you initial okay okay great questions what they do is they have you in a training class, and they call it FDCPA certification, right? So it can look like they're going by the rules. And they train you for about two or three weeks, and then they put you on the floor, right? And they start teaching you how to do it. And then after that, I mean, they

it's funny how they're able to operate. A lot of people think you've got to have millions of dollars to operate these big collection agencies. You don't. What they do is, They trained the collectors. It's like an investment, right? Like, let's say they put me in there, and it might take them two or three months to get me up to part of where I'm bringing in enough money to even justify my salary or whatever. Or they, you know, they might lose money for a while, but I'm a great investment because I'll start bringing in money. And what they do is they have their clients, they'll pay them for like, say, 30 days later. So it's like a Ponzi scheme is really what it is. They're like rob and Peter to pay Paul.

And I had an attorney one time asked me, you know, a collection of FDCPA, attorney said, man, how did they do all that? And I told me, you know, so that's how I got started. And I started learning how to skip trace. And skip tracing is, I mean, I know what it is, but what can you explain to skip tracing? Skip tracing is where you go into different databases and that there's one called microbuilt where you can go in Lexus Nexus. You can go in, and we had their vital information anyway. security numbers and everything so what you do is you put that person's information in and you pull it up in that database and let's say they did a loan or something say they they tried to get a car

loan or something like that well it's going to show up their new address where they're at their cell phone number all that information it's it's amazing what you can what you can find out right all right so give give me the like how do you end up in collections like and i understand understand. So, you know, let me know if I've got this right. So, okay, I go to a car dealership. Obviously, you know, I go to the car dealership. They arrange for me. I mean, obviously, you can go through your credit union or bank or some other lender. Let's assume you go to a card dealer. That car dealer says, okay, we're going to arrange for Bank of America to give you a loan. Right. And so you get the loan from Bank of America. You make, you know, eight payments. And then you

get behind and then you know six you sit obviously bank of america sends out some some collection letters hey you're behind 60 days hey you're behind 90 days hey you've got these fees we're gonna for we're to take the car and then one day somebody goes to your house you walk outside and your car's gone right and then they resell that vehicle you owe 20,000 in the vehicle but they resell it for 12,000 dollars you've only made six or eight payments whatever so you've paid off less than a thousand You still owe them $19.5. They've sold it for 12. So you owe them $7,500.

Bank of America doesn't have their own collection department. What they do is they end up transferring that to a company that you work for that tries to collect the $7,500. And that's assuming there's no fees stacked on top of that. Let's just stick with $7,500. So you then pull their information. Now, Bank of America has a certain amount of information they can give you, like what was on their application. but let's assume that person's really had a bad time and they've ended up moving and so it's been six months and now they've moved you know the letter you send out some letters you know they're not responding to the Bank of America letters maybe they've got a divorce they've moved someplace they changed jobs yeah how do you and how and how so you use this this one of these systems you run their information their basic information like their social security card their date of birth their full name Through that system, skip tracing, and it connects all of their applications and information pulled on them to tell you where they're currently living, driving, anything like that, right?

Like, hey, this is their new address. We believe. This is their new address. They change cell phones. Here's their new cell phone. Yeah. That's basically what you're saying, right? That's skip.

Yeah, that's basically what you're saying because you can, you can, it's called the header part of the, you know, the header part of the credit report that just has their information. like their name, address, date of birth and all that. The primary. Yeah. And then if you look and say their last known address was 1542 Bayview Drive or something, you know you've got the right person. And now you have a number. And then once you've got that number, you call them. And the goal is to get them to call you back, right?

And so they said that I was the, I had more callbacks than anybody, you know, because I would call, but I would do it in such a way that I wasn't violating any FDCPA laws. I'd say, my name is Bill Davis. I'm with Avanti USA. You know, I've got some paperwork here on my desk, and your name is in it, is in it, you know. And I just wanted to give you a call so you can call me back and we can talk and I can figure out your side of the story. Now, if you got a message like that, wouldn't, well, you wouldn't fall for something like that. But a debtor, you know, if you got somebody calling, hey, this is Bill Davis, I'm with a law office,

Smith & Jones or whatever, or Avante USA or whatever, usually it worked better if you were, you know, actually with a law firm, but you weren't with a law firm. It was just the lawyer would let you, the attorney would let you use their name or whatever, or they might be a pardoning the company and it gave you more leverage. But, you know, little vague calls like that, it's like, what's he talking about, paperwork, you know? Yeah, you hear a law firm and everything. You want to call back like, hey, what's going on? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And it gives you more leverage, you know. So I probably got more calls back when I was doing, you know, when I was working for a company that, you know, LCD Financial that was hooked up with a law firm. I can't remember the name of one that I worked for. But it was a law firm. It was an actual, it would say like Jones and Wilson, you know, attorney at law or something like that. I'm calling from the law. of, you know, and they're automatically assuming that you're an attorney, you know, you don't even have to, you don't even have to misrepresent yourself, just talking to

leotone, you know, right. You know, attorneys talk a certain way. Yeah, you show up, you show up at my house in a, in a shirt that says FBI and you've got a gun on, a holster and a gun, and you've got a, um, you know, you have a windbreaker on and knock on my door and open the door and say, hey, listen, I need to ask you some questions. I immediately think, oh, man, this guy's FBI. Like, he didn't have to say it. He's wearing, you know, he's in the costume. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Hey, this is Matt Cox. I'm putting out a credit course. I'm going to create this course in order to help you legally build your credit so that you can have as much borrowing capacity as is legally possible. If you're interested in the course, go to the

description box, click on the link, put in your email address. You will be sent. two letters. These are letters that I've personally used to help get rid of collections on people's credit and you will also be notified when the course comes out. It's like I'm a magician and illusions are my business. I can make you think anything I want you to think. Right. I so listen when I was in the halfway house I hadn't used my credit in 15 or 16, Matthew Cox's credit in 15 or 16 years. Yeah. So because it was what 13 years of prison, three years on the run. So it was it was roughly whatever, 15, 16 years. So I actually had pulled my credit. And within days, I got an email from a law firm saying they were trying to collect for, I want to say American Express. I owed them

like 25 grand, because before I took off on the run, I ran up all my credit cards because they knew I'm not coming back. So I owed them like 25 grand. And so when I started, when I started reading that letter I was like I pulled my credit it's not on my credit you know like I was like what is this like this should be gone this is over seven years I think like what are they even doing and I started reading the letter and they were saying listen you know we're we're a law firm a collection agency that is collecting on behalf of American Express you owe this much money and they went on and on and on I was like this something this doesn't make even make sense and I saw I read the letter and read it and I read the it was long and then they had all these kind of attachments right like these disclaimers

yeah the very toward the very end of the letter it said although the statute states that we that although the statute states that we cannot forcibly you know collect this we cannot place it on your credit we cannot up like it named all the things that we cannot do they said they said but you know you do still owe the money yeah You know, and so they're just kind of, so then it turned into we're collecting for them and, you know, and you owe this money and you, we need to contact you to arrange a payment plan or to pay it off or they had all these different ways I could start the process of getting, paying it off. And in the very end of it, they, they go ahead and they admit, okay, well, we can't do anything. Yeah. If I didn't realize that, if you just read the first five or six paragraphs and the first initial one, you.

letter and not the, not the connected, you know, addendments, addendum, addendum, Jesus. The, I know what you said. If I hadn't read those and didn't realize something's not right and I hadn't really, really read and read and read, I would have thought for sure, oh my gosh, I'm wrong. They can collect. They're going to garnish my wages. They're going to do this. They can do this.

Like this is, I owe $25,000. They're going to. But I knew. new to look for it. So I looked for it. And I realized like, wow, these guys are still trying to collect. I mean, if I can't jump in here real quick, if you don't mind. Yeah. I could a collection agency, if I own a collection agency, I guarantee I could collect that $25,000. I can do it one or two ways. Okay. Number one, I can take you to court and sue you, even though it's out of statute. You don't show up because you're like, well, it's out of statute. So, you know, then you don't show

up and we get a default judgment against you and there's collection agencies making a couple million dollars a day here's another trick that you may have heard of uh it's called reaging and so they would take that and run the clock back to where it looked like it was uh i mean the clock forward so let's say the debt was incurred in 2007 it's now 2014 well though they'll uh run it up like it was in 2008 or something like that, 2009 or something, you know what I'm going to look like they're still within statute, right. Yeah, and NCO Financial, which is like the guerrilla of the collection industry, I think they collect in fees, probably $800, $900 million a year. Yeah, just in fees. They were fined $1.5 million by the government because they were, they were implementing that

point. So there's the tricks that they're using. And that's why it's like, I have. I got out of collections, you know, I made a little money in real estate. And I said, you know, I'm going to get this book out to as many people as I can because I want them to know. I mean, there's so much generic information out there like, well, after seven years, it'll be off your credit report. Yeah, but what if they reage it? What are you going to do that? So that's why in the book, it teaches you how to do it like if it's discovery, like if you're taking them to court, you know, and then even when they do take you to court, you make them show proof that you actually owe the debt? Okay. What did I do to incur $25,000 in debt? What products and services

did I charge on that card? You know, where's the agreement where I signed, you know? And I had one case for a client where the debt collector thought he was so smart and he sent back a lease, you know, on an apartment the client had been at. And then we saw the date and we saw the couple months it's going to be off. And a few months later, it was off. So it's just, you just got to get really down and dirty with them, so to speak, you know. And you got to think like an attorney, you know. If you go to court, you got to prove things with evidence. Well, you know, debt collectors, they're not above the law and they have to, they have to follow the law.

Even the attorneys that are, you know, doing the collections, they're still considered third party debt collectors in certain instances. So what's the most they can do for that? for a book club on Monday Jim on Tuesday date night on Wednesday out on the town on Thursday Quiet night in on Friday It's good to have a routine

And it's good for your eyes too Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers You'll know just how healthy they are Visit Spexavers.cavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. Whatever, a $7,000 credit card. You owe $7,000 on a credit card. What's the most they can do?

Take you to court, and then a lot of folks that aren't aware of this, but the attorneys, they bill by the hour. And when their client wins, they get, not only do they get that $70,500, but they also get the attorney's fees. And so at $500,000 an hour sometimes, attorney's charged but let's say 500 an hour that could run into a lot of money you know and then they can tack on extra fees like interest and things like that so like you know you had to paid it in what 10 years or something so here's all this interest that's accrued right they just put it all

together and that's why that's why the book teaches you to pick all that apart it's like all right it's not what you go it's what you can they prove you owe you know so what is the likelihood that they collect. I mean, let's face it. If they're, they're, they don't expect to get $7,500. Most people just don't pay, right? When they're, after they're in collections, you know, how much, how many of these people are paying? Yeah. Um, they, are you talking about if the attorneys, when they, when they sue them and get a judgment and they don't pay it or they don't pay it? No, I'm saying just when you're making these phone calls. Oh, okay. Yeah. You don't. You don't expect to get the entire $7,500.

You may get the $7,500, but you would work out a payment plan, right? They call them post days. That's a great question. I'm glad you asked that. And so what the collector does is he gets his post dates built up. Okay, Matt, I'll tell you what. I know you don't have $7,500. I'm going to help you out.

Here's what we can do. Okay. We can do $500. How much can you come up with today? I don't know. $5 or $600. Okay. whatever you can come up with today let's you know see if you can come up at least 500 or whatever all right

then what we'll do is work out a payment plan okay and uh you know what kind of payments can you afford you know how about 250 300 a month you just work it out right and so now i'm going to have a post-dated check from you for 300 dollars and then we go in the system and i'm okay what's your bank account number what's your banking information okay so in 30 days we're going to draw up 300 out of your account whether you have the money or you don't we're still going to draw it out okay so um and then you get you get enough clients you know i used call them clients but you get enough debtors paying you money you're bringing in enough money to where you can justify not only your job which the way the collection works you know i've said a little bit but it ties in what we're saying um they get

paid a salary plus they get paid bonuses right so let's say i'm getting $25 a dollar a month guaranteed salary. Well, I've got to make $10,000 a month. You got to make three to four times your salary. So I've got to make, you know, $7,500 to $10,000 in fees or the company just to justify me being there. And anything over that, I'm going to get 20 to 30%. So what you do is you build up your, they call them post dates. You build up your post dates where you've got money coming in all the time. And then if they have cash, you work out a good settlement with it just depends if that answers your question yeah what are the settlements typically i mean typically they're like oh you owe $7,500 we want $7,500 and it's like okay well i you know i don't have that

it's been three years you're not getting $7,500 i'll work out a payment plan with you for you know a couple thousand dollars what what is the lowest that they typically will go it depends on how old the paper is i mean if it's three years old collections agencies there's a couple of bearables involved number one is the age like you mentioned so let's say it was three years ago well it could be discounted anywhere from you know 20 to 70 to 80 percent well here's what a lot of folks don't know the bill collector has a certain amount that they can take right but let's say that you owe 7500 and the client says okay we'll take 2,500 well I'm not going to give you that $2,500 deal you know I'm going to

I'm going to try to get you for, okay, here's what I'll do, Matt. I'll do it for $6,000. That's the best, you know, we can do it for $6,000. I just talk to my manager. That's the best we can do. I'm lying. That's not, you know, it's just, it sells tactics. That's all it is.

So you want to talk about con artists and crime. That's the collection industry. So what, how does that usually work? Like, I mean, look, to me, negotiations, one of the best ways to do a negotiation is drag it out. Waste as much of your time. Have you put in as much of your time as possible? and drag it out as long as possible because the longer you've invested,

the more likely that you are to take a deal. So if I, if you said, I said, $7,500, we talk about it. We go round and round. I say, let me talk to my wife. Let me think about this. I can't pay $7,500. Maybe, I could probably pay a couple grand. You say no way.

Most I can discount it is to $6,000. I go, I can't do that. Let me, let me call you back. Let me think about this. Let me get off the phone. three days later I call you back or a week later I call you back like I keep stalling stalling we're assuming that that you know to me the longer I keep calling back or you call back you're going to be lowering that $6,000 correct right because I'm assuming like you know two weeks

from now you're like hey this guy is going to pay he just can't pay six like look I can't pay it I can't pay that much I can we do two you know and we go back and for you I can pay payments of $200 a month on $2,000 for 10 months. And you come back, let me ask my manager. And then we takes two or three days to get a hold of me. If you drag that, that negotiation out over weeks, most likely your $6,000 comes down to around $3,500. Because I'm saying, look, I want to pay. Yeah. And that's the big deal. The big deal is do we even have somebody who wants to pay? Yeah. I don't have the ability because most people just hang up. Yeah, exactly. Right. So if you have somebody that says, hey, I want to pay. I just cannot pay, you know, I can pay $200 a month.

I can give you $200 right now. I can start paying $200 a month. And, and then if you come back and say, can you do $500? And I say, no, there's no way. Let me talk to my wife. I'm not sure. I think we've got another debt being paid off soon. So maybe we can start making that payment to you where I'm trying to get a hold of this thing. I don't want to claim bankruptcy. That kind of scares you guys. Doesn't that kind of scare them when you're like, look, we're talking about claiming bankruptcy, you know, doesn't that kind of you guys go like, oh, wait a minute. Like I bet it to get something. He claims bankruptcy.

We'll get nothing. So let me talk to my wife. Can you give me a couple of days? You keep that dragging out, dragging out. You're, of course, going to keep coming back. So I talk to my manager. He can take $5,000. Yeah.

He said we can go to $5,000. You haven't talked to anybody. I know that. No, I'm fine. Yeah. So let's face it. Two, three weeks. I might get it down to $3,000.

And then I just pay you $300 for the next 10 months. does that seem like a reasonable tactic that someone could take with you that that is a brilliant tactic you would make a heck of a i know you were in real estate we both were so we're good at negotiating things you know so that's all you're doing you negotiate now here's another thing okay here i am it's like the 26th of the month right and right and i want to get this bonus check and all i need is a couple thousand dollars right you know so okay i'm going to take your deal right I was just thinking that. It also depends on how well you're doing that month.

Yeah. Well, it's towards the end of the month when you can usually work the best deal because that's when they're determining how much you're going to get in a bonus check, you know. In $2,500 a month, no disrespect to anybody that makes that kind of money, but, you know, makes that salary. But $2,500 a month is not why the collector's there. They're there to make, you know, $100,000, $200,000 a year. They're there to make $5, $10,000 bonus checks.

right you know and uh the collectors get excited about that because they have what's known as the shield and the shield is the guy he's the pro he's the top guy and he's making tony made twenty thousand dollars last month you know right something makes you guys all want to strive for that yeah exactly pony did it he's an idiot yeah i can do it um okay so my other question is that I don't want to pay my debt I'm going to be honest with you I know I owe it

I know I owe $7,500 it's been four it's been five years I don't want to pay bro like I don't want to pay so how do you get is there a way to get out of paying yes

okay and I know this isn't one let me say this first obviously this isn't 100% every single time you know but yeah okay well i mean i'm just saying because i i know i've talked to guys and they're and i'm like and that's going to work for sure they're like well what not for sure like i you know but but 95% of the time it's going to work you know yeah so so what is your take on on i o and let's not legitimately i owe 7500 bucks like i i ran up the credit car or i whatever the reason is i owe the debt yeah well

In the book, okay, you're turning the tables on them, and they're going an attorney on you, so to speak. They're in the attorney mode. So you get in that attorney mode. You say, okay, well, I can't remember what all the other says, but it's in the book. But it basically says, okay, you say I owe this money. Well, send me the documentation showing that I owe you this money. Where's the contract? What did I do to run up $25,000?

Where's the contract? Because I don't know you. You know, and then a lot of times they'll send back a piece of paper and they'll think that it's bare in the credit bills will let them do it. They'll type up a piece of paper. Matthew Cox, those is 20, you know, I was my client $25,000 from a debt incurred, such and such. And that's all they need to do. And the credit bureaus, you know, they've got third party countries that they're sullen this stuff out to. They're not experts.

They're just, you know, typing it in as fast as they can. And the credit bureaus don't care about you, you know. and I've sued the credit bureaus before and I've won and the collection agencies. So you just have to do it just like discovery and when you put their feet to the, you know, put the fire under

the feet, you know, so to speak. They're like, well, wait a minute, this guy knows what he's doing. Everybody's just leave him alone, you know. And, oh, you know, you're an attorney. You know, you're with a law firm. What's your bar number? Right. You know, I've gotten smart act like that before clients. I was like, okay, what's your bar number?

I do themselves an attorney. Yeah, he did. You said you said, you said it and you just start scaring them, man. That's a FDCPA violation. You just got to get hard and heavy, you know, with them. You got to, and with that letter, if they send you a letter that says, okay, you know, Mr. Cox, you owe $5,000. Here's this letter. You send them back another letter saying, look, all you sent me was a piece of paper. Anybody can do that.

I can type up a piece of paper and say, you owe me $5,000, but that doesn't mean anything without the actual proof. So what you're so so let's assume and I know what the proof is the proof is that they they turn around and they say instead of sending you this printout that they were sent by the client they what happens if they actually send you the application they send you the actual contract you did sign they send you all of those things so that clearly you do they show you a copy of your driver's license like this like clearly they have proof that you took out this money well I can tell you what my experience. it's, I mean, I'm not going to say it's 100%, but nine times out of 10. When you buy, I mean, there's two ways that the collection process works, right? You've got the collectors that are collecting for a client getting a fee. Then you have what's known as a junk debt buyer that buys these debts for like pennies on the dollar. Not 10, 20% off like people think. I know I was there.

They pay a couple of pennies a name. It's like a mailing list like you're selling for products and services. And if they'd collect 10 to 20% of that list, 10 to 20% of the people pay, you're making a lot of money. So it costs a lot of money when you're buying the debt, right, to put all that documentation together. But if they did, then you might work out a settlement with them or whatever. And then when you do that, you want to go through an attorney. You don't want to do it without having an attorney. you know and there's a lot of prepaid legal and there's people attorneys that'll you know a couple hundred bucks or whatever they'll

type up an agreement or whatever you know so like I said but that's very rare and you know interesting story it was I believe it was Avanti USA the owner of the company was telling this lady said you know I'm looking at the contract right now it's got your signature on it and he was looking at a computer screen that's all he was doing right and so nine times out of 10 they don't they don't have that documentation that they need it's a name it's your name your basic information and something that's from from bank of america that says you owe this debt but they're not sending them a full scan of every single document you sign they just don't have it they have a very one screen write up that says john doe social security number this data birth this borrowed this much money here's what is

payments were. Here's what his interest rate is. Here's what he paid in. Here's the payment amounts. He hasn't paid in 120 days. And that's it. Maybe a note. That's about all you're getting, right? Right. That's it. Now, one of the things that I learned from the law firm when the attorney was training us, and this has been very valuable. It's in the book. It's called assignment of debt. Even if you have the documentation that shows that I took out this debt, where is the assignment of debt? you have the right to collect this, whether you're getting a fee from Bank of America or you bought it. And if you did buy it, where's that assignment of debt? You know, how much did you pay for it? You know, what were the terms of that? Send me that assignment of debt. And all the time I've been doing

this, I've never had a collection ACB been able to do that. I'm not saying they can't. But it's a lot of hassle. It's a lot of work. Come on. Come on, Matt. I mean, you know, you're going to make a $20,000 paycheck next month like Tony. You know, why are you going to go through all this trouble? you know why not move just move to the next guy it's move to the next sucker man move to somebody that you can intimidate you know so that's what that's what's what's so powerful about the book and it's not just a book it's a system so um so by the way you're you keep mentioning the book but you're actually giving you know it's you're not trying to sell the book you're actually giving the book away for free no let's just say that i've been blessed i've got the like that i want okay

And especially after the pandemic, I decided to go ahead and do that. We decided to go ahead and do that, my partners, and I, because the thing is that there are so many people that have really bad credit because of what happened during the pandemic. And there are so many businesses out there. Like, for instance, I own a merchant cash advance company, and I do loans. You know, we do loans for businesses and things like that. So I'm more of a business consultant than anything,

but if they need a loan, I can get them a loan. And I've seen so many credit scores that are so horrible. And so when I give them the book or show them how to get their credit score back up and running, they get up to the 680s, the 700s that they need so they can get a better interest rate. So, yeah, I don't, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to sell the book anymore. But if you go on Amazon.com, it'll say $59. So I'm giving, giving away the book, you know, for free to help folks out. Now, I'm not going to lie, I do, you know, when you do, you know, when you use the products and services that we recommend that I recommend in the book, then I do get a little commission, but I, you know, I just can't give away a book for free without having some way to support that, you know.

Right. So, but if you do everything that the book tells you to do, you're, you're going to, you know, you're going to be successful. And I'm kind of greedy in a way because you, you, you, let's. say you're a business owner and you use everything that we teach you in the book and you get up to the 700 credit scores well nine times out of 10 you're going to call me up say hey bill let's go and do this loan you know so like when we do uh we get clients that want merchant cash advances or regular loans and they they they don't qualify so we're just giving them on the book saying look you know i'm sorry we can't help you but you know and and no broker's going to nobody's going to be

able to help them so why not just take the take the time do what you need to do and follow the process it works right so what you're saying is they may not be a client now but if they follow that that process that you've laid out in the book they may be a client in a year from now yeah and and like another thing is i'm more of a spiritual person anything i like to bless others you know with with with what i've been blessed with if that makes sense and uh let's say let's say there's a business owner he's struggling or whatever uh he gets a copy of that book he doesn't have 10 000 dollars to pay me for my time, you know, to do all this stuff for him. And so he goes ahead and does it.

He puts in the work. He's committed to it. And he gets his credit score up to like 680. So now he's got so many avenues open to him, so many opportunities for credit now. He can expand his business. And let's go a step further because it's not just business owners. Let's say, like, I came from a divorced family. My mother was single, you know, by herself and had to support five children on her own.

And her hardest part was getting a car that. grant properly, you know. It's always breaking down. It's how used cars are. Well, what if, what if I was able to get that book to a single mom or something and she was able to get her credit straight where she'd go buy her decent car? Right. So let's, let me, let me jump back real quick because we got. Okay, I didn't even get off subject. No, that's all right. And actually, I'm the one who got off the subject when I mentioned it. Just because you mentioned the book. I want to let, let it. Oh, I'm passionate about to do. Um, so. So. my thought process is you you know we just went through the explaining to that they're trying to collect they're at the point where the lawyer's calling they cannot provide proof that you owe this debt but that still doesn't take it off your credit so you're saying it at some point that that gets to a point where they're like okay well we're not going to sue him because he's asking for all of this information that we can't provide but it still doesn't take it off your credit how do you get it off your credit that's another thing that's another thing

that the letter implies that, you know, hey, 30 days ago, I sent you a letter requesting that you don't approve the documentation. I'm just paraphrasing because we don't have a lot of time here. But it's in the book, you know, and the letter is lined out to a T, okay? And there was an attorney that approved that letter. There's an attorney that helped me with that letter to tell you the truth, you know. And she would use that letter and get her clients off like that. I'm like, how are you doing this? And she said, well, they got to prove this and they got to prove that. And I'm like, wow.

So combined with that and what I learned as a collector, man, I had a powerful tool, you know, to help folks out. And so the way it started was, it's like, folks are like, well, you know, how can I get my credit straight? And I tell them and everything. And then it's like, I don't have all the time in the world to teach everybody. So I decided to put it into a book format and put it on Amazon.com, you know. You pay 60 bucks, you know, and you'll learn what you need to learn, you know. But you put in there that they need to take it off the credit report, right? Because you haven't been able to prove it pursuant to, I think it's 609 of the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

And you throw in all these statutes, you know, these laws, you know, and your violation of the FCCPA, you know, section, whatever, if you want to get real technical. But they've seen all that before and they've got attorneys that look at that stuff. So you don't have to do all that. I'm just saying, and then if they don't take it off, it's not. It tells you how to do it in the book, but you can take them to court, right? And if they do show up in court, if they don't show up in court, they get a default judgment. Now, it's been my experience that we sent them a letter.

We have the client sent them a letter. And then the collection agencies, you know, like one attorney called me up and wanted to negotiate. And I said, okay, so you're going to get my client that money that they're out, you know, because they were, you know, they lost lucrative. But no, we'll just take it off. And I said, what? I said, how dare you know, I was like, I said, you know, you cost my client thousands and thousands of dollars and you think all you got to do is just take it off and that's going to make it better. Just forget it, you know, and hung up a phone. Then I called back and I said, look, I'm sorry about that.

I was really, you know, disrespectful and unprofessional. But, okay, now what's the deal you're offering? And she told me, and she even offered to get what's known as an AUD letter. I think it's automatic universal data or something like that. But what it is is when a company agrees to take something off the collection, you know, off the credit report, there's a letter, there's like a letter that shows where they sent the request to the credit bureaus to take it off. So if the credit bureaus ever say, well, we never, you know, receive that.

So, I mean, there's the criminals are the collection agents and the credit bureaus. it's a racket if that answers a question semi answers a question i it's still you know you basically what what i'm hearing is that during the process of asking them for these documents when they can't provide them you then come back and say look you can't provide any of this i don't feel i owe the debt you can't provide show anything that says i do owe it i want i want this taken off and you can of course you can email them that or write them that but at some point If they do not remove it, is it possible that you could file a lawsuit against the collection agency to take it off? And I say this, right, okay, I say this because I know a couple of guys who are, who do, they help clean up people's credit.

Okay. Right. So they're, you know, whatever, I figure what you call them. You know, basically they're, you know, credit repair. Yeah. Yeah. So the one guy told me this. He said, he goes, I've got a form. He is, I have a basic lawsuit. He said, it's like three pages. It's nothing. He said, but it's written well. He said, and I literally just, he said, once we get to the point, because a lot of what you're saying I've heard, he said, once you get to the point where they are saying, you know, you owe the money, we're not taking it off your, your credit. And you've continually said, I don't. don't owe the money. Right. You know, I, I do not recognize that I owe this money. You cannot

provide these documents. Here's what they refuse to take, take it off. He is they're not moving forward with a lawsuit. He said, you know, because it's, you know, he was saying something like, look, they have to, they have to justify that lawsuit. You know, if it's got to be $10, $15, $20,000 for them to file a lawsuit. And they have to really believe they're going to get the money. Because if it's for $4,000, they're not filing a lawsuit. No. So what he said, I, do if I get to that point where they're not taking it off my client's credit he already has a pre-prepared lawsuit he said and I literally just plug the information the basic information in on my client and I he said first I send it to the collection company saying if I don't hear from you

and this isn't removed within 10 days you know I'm filing this in court in the in the state which where they're you know their corporation is registered right so if they're out of you know Delaware or they're out of, you know, Florida or wherever it is. And he's like, then I'm filing it in state court. And I remember, you know, and he does that because he said, one, it's going to cause them a problem. Even if they try and get it transferred to another jurisdiction or federal court, it's going to cost them money immediately.

They're going to drop it. So, and the reason is he said, you know, like almost every single state in the United States, he said, does not, they do not have a filing fee. so he's like state of florida does not have a filing fee for you to file a lawsuit now federal court it's like 500 bucks right so i don't file a federal lawsuit i send them a state lawsuit for whatever state they're in against the collection company you know and their their client and he says which i just plug in boom boom boom boom boom boom he said i send it to the collection agency and say look if this isn't off my credit within the next 10 days i'm filing this he said typically he said

almost always you get something he has or you file it yeah now it's difficult what people don't you know people think oh i can't file a lawsuit i can't this it's difficult the first time to file a lawsuit it's a scary process right you don't understand it you don't get it you don't yeah you know which is kind of like it's it's kind of like filing the freedom of information act people think oh my god it's so complicated it's not complicated right you can write a lawsuit or request for the Freedom of Information Act in Green Crayon. Hi, my name is, you know, and file it. And they will act.

They will act like you, like a lawyer filed it. They will respond. We received your lawsuit that states this. We've got the motion. You're filing against this party. And they will respond. Now, you have to serve them, of course. Yeah.

You know, but other than that, which costs. money, but it's not, by the way, it's not super expensive to be served. People think, oh, it's two, three hundred bucks. It's not. It's like 75 bucks. It depends on what. It's cheap. It's, uh, I didn't catch you off. Did I, no, no, go ahead. There's more I talk, but I had a quick thought here before I forget. Um, I haven't even, you know, for my clients and even myself, I'm not immune to it either, you know, and especially since I wrote the book, the credit bureaus hate me in the debt collectors, right? And I wound up suing American Express, a debt collection company, and the three credit bureaus. And they made me sign a confidentiality agreement

where, you know, which I'm probably breaking it, but who cares, you know? And I got like four grand out of them. And for my part, and my attorney got his fees and stuff. And, you know, So, but what we've done successfully for clients is in that letter, you say, look, 30 days ago, I sent you this letter. I mean, you can keep sending them different letters. And then, you know, first you send it to them, and then when they don't comply, you send it to the credit bill, say, look, 30 days ago, I sent them this, you know, validation of debt. They haven't provided the documents. So I'm requesting that you take it off. Well, honestly, I think that can be a lot of waste of time because the credit bureaus, they don't care, you know.

I think the best thing to do is if they don't do it in 30 days, take them to court, right? I've got a company I use out of California, and they type up a lawsuit. And I think Robbie's an attorney now. He was going to law school at the time, and all I did was I got this company to type up the lawsuit for me, right, and file it in court for me and serve them. And that's how that attorney called me back and wanted to settle. They didn't want to go to court. And then there was another attorney that came all away from Dallas where I'm at in San Antonio. And he probably had to get up like four or five in the morning.

And we get up in front of the judge. And what happened was, oh, this is another thing. They took it off, the credit report. They quit trying to collect it. They quit trying to, they didn't report anymore. They called it a bona fide error. Have you ever heard that term before? It's like, oh, we're sorry.

We made a mistake. We won't do it again. Look, we took it off. We saw it was a mistake and we took it off. So just to jack with this guy, this attorney, we had it out over the phone. I'm like, yeah, I bet you just got out of law school. I'm just, you know, I'm a nice guy, but, you know, business is business, you know. And so he shows up.

He's got this big, I don't know what it is, a book or something that he's going to quote laws or something like that. So I tell the judge, I say, Your Honor, I'm requesting that you dismiss the case without prejudice because his client is involved in, you know, this is fraud, you know, and we're going to turn this information over, evidence over to the United States Justice Department, so I'm asking that you dismiss it without prejudice, which means I can come back later and sue him any time I want to. And his jaw just dropped down, just a little young kid, man. And I just, I'm knocking down, man.

So it's like, you're right. It's not that when you stand up and you fight them. And in the letter, when you tell them, hey, you know, you were supposed to provide documentation you didn't so if you don't remove it within seven to ten day you know within seven days i'll file a lawsuit against you for rico which you know what riko is and uh professional negligence you start naming you just get a laundry list of all this stuff and then at the end you put ads advised by my attorney and they're like oh man this guy's got attorney now you know i mean i think the problem with most people is that they they don't go like listen let's

face it. Most people, if you're a guy that, you know, you drive a forklift in a factory or in a warehouse somewhere, like you're not that used to filing paperwork. No. And it makes you uncomfortable. One, you think when you hear, when you get the collection call, you think I, I can resolve this on this call, but you can't. That call, unless you're going to pay them, you're not going to get it resolved. If you want to try and get rid of your $15,000 debt or your $8,000 debt from being evicted five years ago or three years ago, it's going to take multiple phone calls. And you may have to write up some kind of a lawsuit. You may have to pay $100 to have the company served at some time. But what they don't understand is that this, if you're willing to go through those,

those, you know, those jump those hurdles, you can get rid of these debts. It's time consuming. It's not possible. It's simply time consuming. And that's what they're really banking on. You don't know your rights. You aren't willing to put in the time. And look, it's not hugely time.

When I say time consuming, you have to write a letter. It doesn't have to be eloquent. Your lawsuit does not have to be eloquent. Right. You just, you write the emails, you write the letters, you make a few phone calls. You write up a lawsuit. You file the lawsuit. the law there are very there are easy templates for lawsuits on the internet you know and and so if

you do that you you can get rid of these debts oh yeah and the what it boils down to is this sorry one more thing what it boils down to for whoever's watching this what it really boils down to is this you have to look at it like this that 7500 dollar debt was essentially essentially was acquired for 1500 bucks a thousand dollars at best at best at So anything, anything they get a, they're trying to get something above that. Right. So here's the thing. The moment you go to threaten to file a lawsuit, the moment you go to do these types of things and they have to involve their in-house attorney, their in-house attorney is going to immediately say, listen, we got, we got $1,500, $1,500 into this thing right now.

This guy's made multiple phone calls, or our collection agent has made multiple calls. We've got multiple letters going back and forth, and now they're threatening to file a lawsuit. The fact is, if I have to go to court, it's going to be multiple court appearances. And in the end, we're not going to get the money. No. And if we may get a judgment, but we're never getting the money. We can't provide these documents. So at this point, just take it off the credit.

Like, that's what it's going to happen. You're going to, I'm going to cost you $2,500 to $5,000 because it's an in-house attorney. He's on salary. He's not charging extra. So he's on salary. But still, it's for $5,000 of. his time to offset a thousand dollars like that's not worth it no no it's not if i can jump in here real quick and another thing is that once you know like the book shows you how to figure out

what the violations are you know what rules they have to go by you know there's a company that i mentioned in the book uh i believe it's hoverwatch where you can go on your computer and you can actually record the whole conversation right and it's like 50 bucks a month to do that but I mean, you know, number one, you got the book for free. So, you know, you put your time into it, so you've already got an investment in it. So, you know, you spend 50 bucks a month. I mean, that's less than a couple bucks a day, you know. And you're able to, and then you entice them.

You say, well, what are you going to do if I don't pay this debt, right? And then you just get them so mad. You push their buttons. And collectors can be some of the most short temperate. people in the world. I mean, I've heard them scream and holler and just get mad because, you know, you got my money, you know, when are you going to pay my money? It's their money. That's the way they look at it. And when you get these violations and you take them to court, there's a lot of attorneys out there and I'm working with a couple of them that they'll take

the case just on a contingency basis. So just take the evidence that I taught you how to get in the book and take it to the FDCPA attorney and let him file a lawsuit and you get, you know, the debt wiped out and you make a little money in the process. Yeah, I was going to, what about does threatening to file complaints with the Consumer Credit Bureau, with the state, you know, does threatening to file complaints in one of your letters, just prior to, you know, prior to filing a lawsuit on your, on your own behalf, does, does threatening to file complaints do anything? Like, hey, I'm going to file with the state of Florida. I'm to file with the whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you list, because you can look them up.

I've looked them up before. State of Florida has one, a consumer credit protection agency. Then there's the federal consumer credit protection bureau. There's about three of them that you can file complaints with if you feel you're you're being harassed about a debt right um well yeah um like in a letter you also tell them hey if you don't in addition to you know in addition to this i'm going to turn this over to the united states justice department you know for fraud you know you just have to look at what the letter says in the book it'll show you and then you mentioned the consumer financial protection bureau that's like they've worked so many bill collectors the years and made them pay millions of dollars they don't want to deal with the consumer

financial protection bureau and another thing you can do is you can file a complaint with the consumer financial protection bureau and say look i've you know they say in all this debt i send them a debt validation letter whatever you want to say and they have to respond within 60 days the company does and usually they respond within seven a week or two weeks like one time i had a client of mine and we went through the consumer finance, the Texan Bureau, and the collection days he comes back, well, we can't find his account. So if he gives us his reference number, you know, I give his account number, maybe we can, you know, we can locate the account. Oh, you want me to help you do your job better, right? Right. Not going to happen. So, yeah, you just got to get tough

with him, man. So another thing I was going to tell you is, and we've kind of skated around this. Okay. this specific topic and it's it's stating like right now you're saying i don't believe the basic response is i don't believe i owe that can you prove to me that i owe that what if you just blatantly say that ain't mine i don't know what that is and turn and i'm only saying this because this is one of the guys that i know who does collections he's like his go-to move is i what he said i look at their credit first yeah He's a, he's the, um, the credit repair guy.

He says, I have them, of course, do a free credit repair or free credit, um, annual credit, um, report where they get a free, they get all three of their bureaus pulled. Right. He said, I review them. I look at them. He said, if it looks like everything went bad within a short period of time. So within three months, you stop paying all your bills. Yeah. Or maybe he said, maybe it's a major bill.

It's like 12,000, 15,000. These are big, big dollar amounts. He said, what I will do is I'll craft a letter that says, for example, for example, let's say that the guy, you've got four things that went bad. Right. Within a month or two. You start, you started just stopped paying three of your credit cards. And it's been a year and a half. So he said what he does is he'll craft the first letter or first email.

I guess I should say. I'm saying letter, but let's say email. He said he crafts the first one by saying, obviously, like, that is not mine. This is the first I've heard of that. Right. I don't know what those are. I've never had accounts with those credit card companies, you know, and he'll maybe say, you know, I have one credit card, the one that you see, it's, you know, with Bank of America.

I don't know what any of these other credit cards are. I pay my bills on time. I didn't realize that there are all these debts out there. So, obviously, my credit was stolen. Please provide me any. proof that you can help me with so that I can file a claim he said then he turns around and he and so they'll he said now he starts saying well no I need this I need the proof so you either take it off or provide me the proof now he said sometimes they come back and they'll send you some paperwork

saying that you owe this debt you owe this debt you know the basic bullshit on the printouts that they yeah he said you might get something just a letter or two he said he'll take those letters he goes and I he said now this isn't what he does okay he makes it look like he filed a he files um no no that's not true he said he actually has his clients go and file a not a police report but he said there's a national database where you can say your identity was stolen okay and he they file a report saying look four years ago or three years ago my identity was stolen and he lists the paperwork and everything he said They filed an entire thing.

And I went, well, aren't you concerned that, by the way, this is the reason he hasn't been on the program. Okay. Because I was like, oh, it's no good, bro. Yeah, I don't even go in the gray areas. Yeah. So he actually has them file that. And he said, listen, he said, they don't do anything. It's just an agency that collects the data.

They don't investigate anything. But they give you a report that says you filled out and you filed the report. He said, then you send it back to the collection agencies, saying, look, on this date, I filed a report about all of these collections. And he said that almost works. He said 98 to 99% of the time, they immediately take it off. Because you have what is essentially a law enforcement report. But the law enforcement agency is a federal agency that doesn't investigate anything.

But the fact that you went that far to file the report, even if you went to your local police and filed a report, they're just going to take a report. Yeah, that's all they do. They're not making any, they're not even going to make any phone calls. They're like, this is three or four years ago. Yeah.

So he said, as soon as you file that report and show them the report, he said, it's over. He said, they immediately start yanking those things off your credit.

And if you don't, then you follow through with the actual lawsuit. And now you have a, I have a legitimate police report. I was identity theft. You know, these guys, somebody ran up my stuff three or four years ago. And these people are trying to collect on it.

And I've got a report. He said immediately it's over. They drop it. They drop it. Yeah. It's insane what this guy with the things he was telling me he did, he would do. And the guy that sent him to me was like, this guy got a $45,000 like, you know, a repo off my credit. He got like credit cards off.

I mean, he was naming like huge. huge debts that this guy got wiped out. And I was like, are you serious? He's like, I was like, and so I ended up talking to that guy. And he was telling me this. And I was like, bro, like you were really,

like that is extreme. And he said, I haven't done anything. He's like, all of this is in my client's name. Yeah. And honestly, he's been doing it for years and years. He said they never, nobody ever makes a phone call. I mean, obviously, I understand he's, he's not he's he's he's clearly crossing the line you're filing false replace reports and

everything but what i'm saying is there are some of these agents out there that will go um they'll go way above and beyond you know like right now what we're saying is hey i don't see that i owe that debt you're not you're not saying to say my identity was stolen i'm saying i don't see like hey i i you're never you're not really what you're saying is you don't you don't admit that you owe it well did you take out the debt i don't i don't owe that debt i don't see where you can prove that i don't i want to see proof exactly do you ever say do you owe the debt did you take out the debt no you suggest if they ask that no you just basically what you what you let them know it's like okay uh it's like i joke with my friends a lot i was you know when

they're asking me about it and my clients and stuff and i'm like well well you know, a couple of years ago, you borrowed $200,000 from me and you agreed to pay me $3,000 a month. You don't remember that? Well, where's the documentation, you know? Right. About the same thing. Right. You're not admitting, you're not admitting or denying you're just saying, where's the documentation? Even if you settle, you say, look, I'm not, you know, and it's in the book, you know, I'm not, I'm not, you know, the only reason that I'm settling is debt is because I want to get it taken care of, but you haven't provided me with any documentation to show to actually owe the debt. But to save time and everybody's headaches, let's go ahead and sell it. You want to sell

it for this amount. And that's when you use it leverage. You know, I mean, that's a slick thing with the police reports and all that, but that's just not my way of how I do it because the way that I do it, I'm not saying that I didn't owe the debt. I'm saying that you didn't prove that I owed the debt. And so I'm not committing any fraud at all. Right. You know? So, So, I mean, that's why the letters crafted to where they're like, well, he went through all this trouble to get an attorney, you know, and we're going to have to go to court over a $1,000 deal or whatever, you know, we paid $1,000 for it. Let's just move on to the next one, you know. Right, right. It's pretty slick, though, filing the thing saying, hey, I just found out that I got four years ago.

I got three credit cards that somebody took out because I don't recall any of these credit. These are my credit cards. Four years ago. Well, there's a lot of things out there that are effective, but... But not legal. Not legal. And they can come back and bite you later on. And you don't ever want to be involved in anything like that.

And the government, this is off the subject a little bit, but the government, they have like a hit list and they go after certain people because they have a lot of money. and his prestige and all that, and they figured out ways to get him and a friend of mine that happened to him. They tried to say he was fraud and all that. He wasn't, you know? But it's just to, so what I'm saying is,

even without the government hit list, that's kind of a theory of mine, I guess, but it's real, you know. You know how the government is. But it's best to just always follow proper procedures, don't break the law, so they can't ever come back and say, well, he broke the law.

I'm sprawed. You're saying the proper procedures alone will help you get out of this. Yeah, because you just, you know, they're playing games with you. You play games with them. I'm saying, look, okay, you want to, you want to fight? Let's fight, you know. And I'll be honest with you, a lot of times I've gotten clients where they sent the letters out within a couple of weeks. They took it off and I'm kind of disappointed because I was looking for a fight.

I like the fight. I love it. Right. You know, it's just, it's like, because we've already, the book, and we talk. talked about it earlier, we pulled back the curtains, so to speak, like the Wizard of Oz, right? And you see who the Wizard really is. They're just paid telemarketers, you know? And they're just making phone calls, just like if they were selling home improvement products or whatever. That's all they're doing. They're selling you on paying this bill. And sometimes

you may not even owe that bill. So that's why those letters work so effectively because sometimes they might have the wrong name, they might have the wrong person, you know, whatever. So it's like, you just want to throw that letter out there to them. And it's like a discovery letter. You know, when you go to court, you got to have this, this and this, you know. I mean, so like I said, but I don't do anything and I don't recommend my clients do anything that's, you know, even in the gray area. Right, right. And like, yeah, I get it. So do you, do you, do you, do you? what do you do you run a collection a i'm not a collection agency but do you do credit repair now what are you doing now i don't do i don't say i do credit repair because credit

a lot of folks think all i got to do is get this bad stuff off my credit and i'm going to have perfect credit that's not the case a lot of times it can lower your score so what i am is i'm a business consultant right um you have a business you want to you want to take that business to the next level well, you're going to need a loan, right? And you may not qualify for that loan. So I'm going to help you get to the point to where you can qualify for that loan. In the meantime, I'll get you a merchant cash advance

just based on your revenues, you know, and I'll stuff a little bit. But I don't want you to just be stuck on that. I want you to be able to have a good enough credit score to where you can have the best interest rates possible, what we call a cheaper form of capital. So answer your question, no, I'm a business consultant. And if they want to expand their business and market their business, I can show them how to do that.

But it's mainly finance and I'm mostly involved with. How long were you in the collections? Five years. Five years. Yeah. I worked two years for a company called Avanti USA, another one, LTD Financial. That's the one that they had a scam where they would have their collectors call them and say, hey, you know, your social security number was in some paperwork on my desk. getting a lot of calls and they were fined like 1.5 million for doing that and then there was another

company called maximum recovery they were a mom and pop type operation so in the collection industry you're going to see different types of collection agency levels you're going to see the mom and pop that they might have three or four guys in there or five or 10 people or whatever and then you've got like nCO financials probably got 300 people or more you know it's just different levels right so I had a buddy that I met in prison who hired these guys. They were all in Peru, but their clients were, they would sell products on Spanish TV to people. They would target people that basically immigrants that were here illegally. And they would sell them stuff, you know, at two in the morning, there's an infomercial.

And they're selling like, you know, the ab roller for $200 or $300 when he's like when we buy it from China for you know 11 bucks they would send it to him and it was this it was cash COD and he said you know they would get there and they wouldn't accept it you know they because they they was drunk at two in the morning and they bought the ab roller and now they and they they mailed it to them and 10 days later they didn't accept it he goes well now they owe us the $200 plus fee shipping plus this so it ends up being like $400. So then they would give it to their collection agent.

And they had a recording and everything of them saying, except they wanted it. They would pay that. So these guys that he got in trouble because these guys knew they were illegals and they would threaten to have them, they were going to file a lawsuit and they were going to have them file a lawsuit get a warrant placed against them and have them track down and deported. Oh, wow. Now, none of this is possible,

but if you're an illegal who's been here for two years, you have no idea what's possible. And these people, so it was basically, he got charged with extortion. Oh. And he thought, we're in Peru. So we're not really in the U.S. jurisdiction.

About two, three years after he was indicted, he flies in to go to Vegas one day. waited for him at the airport put the handcuffs on him at the airport when he got here completely thinking i'm fine like i'm fine i was in peru i've never heard anything he never heard anything negative about it never heard he was collecting money it was good and it wasn't insane money right but he is collect they are collecting 20 000 some odd dollars a month doing this you know and so in peru that might as well be a hundred thousand that's a lot of money right so in a few so after a few years he had been indicted. He'd been doing this for a while and he got indicted and he still was still

kind of doing it from Peru. And then one day he shows up at the airport to come to Vegas and they arrest him. So I and it was extortion. Like think about the charge. It wasn't like a boiler room or anything. They're they're extorting people by getting them to agree to pay then for something that by the time they sober up or 10 days later. They're like, I don't want to pay $200 for an ab roller. What was I thinking? The guy shows up. I don't have. the money then they start calling then they start threatening them he's like look he said if 25 of those people pay he was think about how much money i'm collecting that two hundred dollars jumped to 400 when they didn't pay for it he's like so i'm getting a hundred and fifty

bucks for something i paid he was i have 11 dollars into oh wow and he was they were they were banking anyway i thought you'd find that comical it is comical it is comical it is comical and he went to jail for like three years yeah i mean he never made a call yeah it's just like back in in the you know before the mortgage meltdown and all that i mean there are people who are doing some things that they shouldn't have been doing and i mean yeah you made a lot of money but when they went to prison was it really worth it and i don't mean that a jabbed anybody i'm just saying you know i mean so uh i like to do things at the highest legalist level i can if i'm not sure about then I'm going to get with an attorney.

I'm going to say, hey, what about this? And they're going to tell me. And so when I wrote the book, I made sure, hey, what about this? Can we do this? You know? And so that's why. So, and even though I had a collection background and the legal background and all that, I wanted, you know, an actual attorney's input.

And so that's why that book is so powerful and the letter is so powerful because it looks like it came from an attorney. Right. You know, and it's, you know, it's, you know, it's like. like, okay, even though it doesn't have the letterhead of a law firm or anything, you know, here's a debtor that owes $7,500 and can he make their payments. Now, of a sudden, they're sending these cracked letters, you know, that, you know, you can look at it, the legal tone of the letter, and you're like, and as advised by my attorney,

that's why at the end, he put as advised by my attorney. And they're like, man, you know, obviously his attorney's abides him because, you know, that's where he's coming up with all this stuff or, or, you know, so yeah, it's just a game. all this, it is. It's a racket and a very profitable one. All right. Well, I'll, I'll put the link in the description box for the book. Okay. Anything else do you want in there? Right now, we're working on the website and we don't have everything up and running.

So what we're doing right now and to monitor how many, you know, responses we're getting or whatever, I think it's best if they just want to email me, and request a copy of the book and we'll send it right out through them if that's okay. Yeah, that's fine. And, you know, I figure if somebody takes enough time

to put their email address in and to ask me, just, you know, put in the subject heading, I hope that's not a whole lot for people or folks to remember, but, you know, compensations of an ex-bill collector,

hey, Bill, send me a free copy of the book you mentioned on Matthew's show or, you know, whatever, something of that effect. That makes sense? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. And I'll send you my email address. Well, you've got my email address. I'm not thinking today, but, but yeah. And then, you know, in the book, like I said, it goes into not only just to recap how to get your credit built up to the point like we talked about before, when you get rid of that bad credit, you need to add some new credit in there. So anyway, but I enjoyed talking to you, and if ever I can be of assistance to you, you know, you've got a question or something. something that I can answer that we didn't answer here. Let me know. All right. Well, listen, I appreciate it. Hey, I really appreciate you guys watching. If you like the video, do me a favor

and share the video. Also, do me a favor and subscribe to the channel. Hit the bell so you get notified videos just like this. Leave me a thumbs up. And please consider joining my Patreon. All of the links are in the description box, including Bill's email address. Send them an email and tell them you want to copy the book. I really do appreciate it. See you. Matt Cox. I'm doing a credit course. I'm doing the course because I, you know, I feel like I have a lot of knowledge on the subject of repairing and building, building credit profiles and, you know, fixing people's credit. I've helped a ton of people do, do that. I've helped them build their credit. And I owned a, you know, I owned a financial, a financial company. I've seen, I've seen how

things work on the inside I've spoken with underwriters I've known the owners of lending institutions and obviously I've built you know well over probably somewhere between 50 and 100 credit profiles I have a vast amount of experience and I think I can I can help I can help people with their credit it's a problem a lot of people don't even understand so go to the description box click the link put your email address in and I'm going to send you two free letters that are, they're templates that help request information on your collections and dispute those collections on your credit report.

These are letters that I've used over and over again. They work 95% of the time. Now, you know, nothing's 100%. Sometimes you're just going to get that collection company that's just going to come after you no matter what, but we will get in the course we get into what to do if that's the case. So with that in mind, I'm going to go ahead and, oh, the other thing that, by the way, the other thing that putting in your email address, it will notify you of the course.

So with that in mind, I'm going to go ahead and talk about leveraging your credit, which is one of the things I'm going to talk about in the course. So if you get the course, you'll hear this. you'll hear much, much more on how to leverage your credit. And so this is really why you, one of the reasons you want good credit. And I give you an example that I've done before that basically, hopefully makes it clear. So at one point I was, you know, I would survey guys and I would basically I would steal their identity. clearly illegal.

I'm not suggesting you do that. But this will let you know just how easy this was. And I've done this over and over again. So this was a homeless guy that one time I surveyed him. I got his credit information. I then went and ordered all of his information. I ordered his birth certificate, social security card. I ordered his high school transcripts.

He has no idea that he gave me enough information. He thought he was filling out a form to determine where the salvation Army was going to place its next homeless facility. So he filled out the form. I gave him $20. I ordered all of his documents. I got all the documents and I registered a boat in his name. I mean, so I have a ton of, very quickly, I have a ton of legitimate documents that were issued to him. I then turned around and manufactured a birth certificate for a 10-month-old child. I manufactured a shot record. I went into Social security told them that my son had been born and never issued a social security number.

Now, I said my son's name was the same name as the homeless guy that I had surveyed. And his name was actually Joseph Carter. So they issued me a social security number to Joseph Carter. So now I have a ton of information in the name of Joseph Carter and a new social security number. So I used that social security number and his documents to obtain. a driver's license. I then went ahead and I pulled his credit. He has no credit in the social security number that I have. And I'm sure his credit, his real social security number probably

had bad credit. Regardless, I created a new credit profile as Joseph Carter. I then turned around and I got three secured credit cards in the name of Joseph Carter. Now, this is someone who has no credit once i got those social once i got those secured credit cards in i put a little bit of money and these are very small these are three hundred dollars five hundred dollar credit cards but they show up on his credit profile now i make the payments on those credit cards for the next six months so six months later so now i've got i've got a credit profile with three trade lines credit cards on the profile. Six months later, I pulled this credit and it's got, it had like a 730, 750 credit score,

something along those lines. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was high. And it was so high. And because I had answered all the questions correctly to acquire the secured credit cards, I had built the profile so solid. that six months later, when he had the 730 or 750 credit scores, I walked into a Ford dealership. I'll never forget, I walked in with a girl I was dating. We were driving in the movies, and I said, hey, listen, let's pull in.

I need to get a car, actually, because I had a vehicle. And I said, I need to pull, and I need to get a new car. So I pulled in, there was a couple of salespeople. one guy stood up and I said hey man you want to sell a car real quick and he goes yeah and I said listen I want to buy a truck so we walked down the lot I found a gosh I want to say it was an F-150 4 by 4 I want to say it was called a Laredo or I'm not sure what the style was but it was a crew cab nice it was around 50 $55,000 we drove the vehicle right down the street he wanted to take me on a whole driving around the city type thing. I said, no, no, no, bro, I just, I'm good. We drove down the street, turned around, came back, didn't even go. It wasn't even a half a mile.

Pulled back in, I said, let me fill out the paperwork. I filled out the paperwork. Gave him my, you know, gave him the name, date of birth, social security number, told him that I'd been on the job five years, you know, whatever the case may be, that I had set up, had a pay stub with me, gave him the pay stub, and told him, him, we were going to the movies. If he could get me financed within the next two hours, I said, I'll come back and pick up the car

or the truck. And he said, all right, I went to the movies, and just as the movie was ending, my cell phone rang, and he said, come pick up your truck. I drove straight back there with the girl I was dating, walked in, filled out the paperwork, didn't put one dime down, and finance that vehicle. Now, here's the funny thing about financing that vehicle. The payment

was like $1,200 a month. I made one payment and refinanced with State Farm Insurance Bank. The State Farm is an insurance company. I actually got my insurance through State Farm. But they also, because I had insurance through them on the vehicle, a month later, they offered to refinance the truck. My original interest rate was like 24% interest. It was outrageous. They brought it down to like 8% interest.

So my payment went from $1,200 down to around $7.7.000. down to around $7 or $800 on that vehicle. I didn't put a dime down. Not a dime. That whole transaction took less than two hours. And all I did was I leveraged a $750 credit score to get myself into a new truck. And listen, over the next six months to a year,

I got multiple credit cards in Joseph Carter's name with $20,000, $30,000 credit limits. I got personal loans in his name, and on a side note that I won't be getting into, I borrowed a couple million dollars in his name on mortgages, which we're not going to be discussing. But I was able to leverage, in six months, I was able to leverage that credit that I had put together to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars with nothing down other than putting up the minor deposits to get the secured credit cards and knowing how to answer the questions

that were being asked by the lenders. And that's really all it is. It's a very simple formula and I'm going to go over all of that in the credit course. So click the link, put in your email address.