Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - How To Make $1,500 Every Spam Call

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

How To Make $1,500 Every Spam Call

There's something called the federal do not call list. So it's a government list and it says that if you're on this list, they're not allowed to call you. And if they do, you can charge the 1,500 for every call. So the first thing the robot will do is it will sign you, do all the clicking and sign you up to this government list. Once you're on the list, the next time you get a call, you can trap them, like I said.

You can pick up the phone and say, yes, I'm very interested in what you're selling. Here's my card number. Instead of giving your real card number, you're giving this honey trap, and that's how it gets all the details. And then finally, the software and the AI generates this demand, that's her say, you violated the Telephone Control Protection Act. Please give me the settlement money. What they're worried about is other people figuring out that they've done something wrong. And so they will often settle and sign a confidentiality agreement. They'll say, I'm not going to give you $1,500, but I'll give you $750 if you don't tell anyone.

And that's good good for consumers because they could just sign it and get that money. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Joshua Brower. He is the founder and CEO of Do Not Pay. He's got a really interesting thing that he's doing right now. So we're going to get into the interview. Check it out. My company helps people fight that using AI. It gets people money from big companies and people scamming them.

gets them justice. The first use case a few years ago was parking tickets, helping people get out of their tickets, and we since expanded to over 200 areas of the law, including what you are mentioning, which is suing robocallers. There's an amazing ball. It says you can get $1,500 every time someone calls you. But these robocallers, they hide behind spam identities, they don't tell you who they are, and so what we thought I do not pay is a trap. And that is a credit card and when they try and sell you something, you can give them the credit card and the transaction declines, but it gets their business name, address, and phone number, and then the AI generates a demand letter and lawsuit to get you your money. And this is really popular

with people because these robocoolers are just getting out of control and someone needs to fight back against them. Right. Well, let's go back to the beginning. Like, obviously, you weren't born in San Francisco. That's right. So as you can tell from my accent, I'm from London, England, originally. I moved here when I was 18 to study at Stanford. And I'll use the excuse that the Americans drive on the other side of the road. But really, I was a terrible driver.

I got maybe 30 parking tickets when I was starting driving. I was really bad. And I was a college student, and I couldn't afford to pay these really expensive tickets. And so I had to figure out other ways to get out of them. and I recite all of the laws and I realized if you know the right things to say not just in parking tickets but also in life you can save a lot of money

and so I started writing these letters and remarkably they were all successful and soon my family and friends were asking for my help getting out of the tickets and I was writing the same letter over and over again to help that and I created Do Not Pay just to make things a bit more simple and I could never imagine that

even though it was just for a few family and friends it would go internationally and viral and everyone hates parking tickets. And that's what made me realize that the idea of helping people with AI and automated legal rights is bigger than just tickets. And I can expand to so many other areas where people are being ripped off or don't know what to say because they don't have the time and money to fight back. Right. Well, okay, so, I mean, in England, like, I mean, were you, are you an only child? Are your parents in the law, you know, involved in law work?

Are they lawyers? Are they in the tech industry? So I'm one of six. So there's a big family. My dad is not a lawyer, but he's actually involved in human rights. Before it became called to fight Russia, he was a big anti-Russia human rights activist. And he didn't teach me anything about the law, but one thing he taught me is to be fearless.

And if you are upset with something, you should stand up for yourself. And I think that's, although I'm not fighting against the Russia Maxia, fighting against parking tickets and robo-coolers, it's still a small aspect of that standing up for what you believe in. And I think everyday people should do that too. These big companies know that you can't afford to fight back over $20. People are so busy, they don't have time to wait on hold for four hours to get $20 back from Wells Fargo. And that's what these big companies know in there using that. And so it's a good job for software to fight back for people. Right.

Okay, so how did you end up at Stanford? So when I was about 13 or 14, I taught myself to code using their YouTube videos. This was before the days they had of these like coding academies and everything. I just used YouTube. And there were these Stanford YouTube videos and they were amazing. And I thought, if this is what the YouTube videos are like, one can only imagine what it's like to actually be there with the palm trees. And it was a dream country. I think people are much more ambitious in America than they are.

are in England. There seems like a ceiling on ambition in London and England as a whole. But in Silicon Valley, it's almost delusional. The sky is the limit. And so you can create something and not have to ask anyone's permission, just build the world that you want. Okay. So when you, so you applied for Stanford. I mean, what was your specific goal in going to Stanford? My goal was to meet like-minded people. Right. These days, Everyone has an app. Everyone has a tech project. But when I was growing up,

there was very few people like building these things. And I wanted to find people like me because in my high school, I was maybe one or two kids out, one of two kids who knew how to code. And I just wanted to be around more like-minded people and build projects with other people.

Okay. And you got to Stanford. You started this. What, when did you? So when did you have? actually turn it into a company. I mean, I understand you, you're saying it slowly took effect, but when did you actually, did you graduate Stanford? No, so I dropped out after three and a half years. I took something called the Teal Fellowship, where Peter Thiel pays people, like me,

to drop out and work on companies instead. I didn't drop out because I set the Teal Fellowship, I dropped out because I was too busy with my company. We were just three and a half years. I mean, You were two semesters away, or no, you're like a semester away. It got to the point where I would forget to renew the server for my website, and the whole thing would go down, and we would lose customers. And so it was really a point of where all in or backing out. And it was such a great opportunity here that I wanted to take it and build my dream. I actually got a bunch of friends together,

and we rented out the house where Facebook was started in Palo Alto. And when I dropped out, we were building, do not pay from that. And it was exactly like the movie, the social network, we're living together, like 24-7 working, drinking like these energy drinks to stay, not having time to eat. And it was a really amazing time. Okay. So what is, so, all right, so you said you kind of expanded into expanding in a different arena as far as like fighting back. what what are those when i when i launched and i got all this um usage um i had a contact form on my website and nobody knew that there was just this college student from their dorm room building this

and so they would write in saying they would think i was a law firm or something saying uh can you help me comcast just overcharged me or can you help me my landlord is evicting me and this gave me all these ideas for expansion and so one by one i spent the time was heads down building out these new features in the Facebook house. And the very next service we launched was airline services, then bill negotiation, and all of these different things to help people. And what's really exciting is the business,

do not pay, started as a template. So here's a template to get out of your parking ticket. But now in the AI era, we're actually using true AI to negotiate back and forth. So one service we have is AI build negotiation. And the way it works is the AI will log into your utility account, open up the online chat, and the AI will start chatting with them to negotiate your bill. And what's interesting is the big companies are using AI. We're using AI. So the two AIs are negotiating is a battle to help people. And we're more motivated, so our AI is better. And so we win a lot of cases for people.

How do you, do you charge it, is it just a simple fee or is there a subscription? It's a subscription. It's 18 bucks a month. And someone gets access to all of do not pay services. And it has a very high ROI because we have people, they say, hundreds or thousands of dollars a year. Going back to Robocalls, we have someone, it was his full-time job for a while suing Robocallers. He made about 50,000. He even bought a new roof for his house from all the Robocall settlements. So we like to think that it's a lot cheaper than hiring a lawyer to do all this. because there's not a lot who's going to get out of that to fight Comcast for you. So how does the robocall thing work? Like, I mean, they have to do a certain thing, right? I get them, you know, I get them all the time. They, you know, they shows up saying, sometimes it'll show up saying having a person's name. Yeah.

So there's something called the federal do not call list. So it's a government list and it says that if you're on this list, they're not allowed to call you. And if they do, you can charge the 1,500 for every call. So the first thing the robot will do is it will do all the clicking and sign you up to this government list. Once you're on the list, the next time you get a call, you can trap them, like I said. You can pick up the phone and say, yes, I'm very interested in what you're selling. Here's my card number. Instead of giving your real card number, you're giving this honey trap.

And that's how it gets all the details. And then finally, the software and the AI generates this demand letter. say, you violated the Telephone Control Protection Act, please give me the settlement money. And then if that doesn't work, you can even file a court case in Small Claims Court to get your money. Yeah, and it's cheaper for them to just pay it that it is for them to actually go to court. Yeah, what they're worried about is other people figuring out that they've done something wrong. And so they will often settle and sign a confidentiality agreement. They'll say, I'm not going to give you $1,500, but I'll give you $1,500, but I'll give you

$750 if you don't have anyone. And that's good good for consumers because they could just sign it and get that money. I mean, are they allowed to hide their, you know, that, you know, hide behind like a, you know, a do not, you know, where it won't tell you who's calling. It doesn't tell you. Like I have, the service plan I have tells me who everybody is that calls. And I'll get the things where it says possible scan. or possible telemarketer, but it doesn't say who's calling. Exactly.

When they call, I'm saying when a robocall calls, I mean. So the government is stacking in, and they're trying to stop this at a government level. And so they're saying to all the telephone networks, you have to identify who's calling you. But the robocallers are making so much money that they're finding ways around these regulations. And this is a problem in life in general. I think I call it concentrated benefit, but spread out hard. So what I mean by that is a big company can charge 10 million people, a $10 late fee. They make $100 million, but the people being charged $10 fee, they have no ability to fight back.

And so it's so profitable for these robocallers and big companies to break the law that they still do it, even though there are all these rules around it. okay do you have are there any um i don't know why this makes me think of um there's a comedian who writes letters back and forth christian rich oh yeah yeah he had a book about memos or yeah yeah it's very funny um no no why it's basically think of that So we've actually built another product around this. So if you get a spam email, so we had a lot of people saying, I don't get out many robopholes, but I get a lot of spam emails. And so we wanted to build a product to help them.

And we felt a product like an AI version of that media, where it will engage them in endless conversation using AI. So this is another thing, just wasting time of these scammers to stop them from doing bad things. If they're all up with the AI, then they don't have time to scam people. Yeah, it makes me think of when the scammers call from like India and they'll get on the phone and act like a, act like a retiree or an older person and they'll just keep them on the line as long as possible to wear them down and get them frustrated. Yeah, whenever a new technology comes out, it's typically used for evil first. So what we're seeing a do not pay is there's a lot of these scammers. they're using fake voices so imagine someone gets a call from their relative but it's not

actually their relative asking for money with deep fakes and things like that and so we're trying to give power to the people to level the playing field and fight fire with fire yeah what's going to happen when like right now they have programs where I can basically they can take a 20 minute or an hour long tape of my voice recording my voice. No, even two minutes. Okay. Yeah, I saw one where it was like the longer

you, the more you gave them, the better it was. But yeah, that's what's going to happen when you start thinking you get your got a call from your wife and she asked you to wire money. Like, that's... Now you have a good excuse to say no.

Right. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the taste Breakfast Trio, your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants, price excludes iced coffee and delivery. But, no, in all seriousness, I think it's a huge problem and society's going to have to deal with it. I had another question. There was one I watched where people were getting like you were scheduling. or getting rescheduled for like the DMV. Yeah.

That was one of the services is that you guys will call and reschedule or go on the DMV website to try and get you placed higher. Yeah, so we have a bot that will phone up the DMV and say with a fake voice, I want an appointment and it will keep phoning up like a thousand times a day to get you an appointment until it finds a cancellation. and this is another job for AI. AI is not perfect.

It's not going to replace lawyers arguing in the Supreme Court anytime soon, but it definitely can get you a DMV appointment and save people time and energy is what it's all about. Okay. How long has the company been around? So I've been working on it for about seven years, but it's been a company for about five years. When I was at Stanford and I got all of this press and virality, eventually the VCs started to take notice and then we made it into a business.

Okay, so you got venture capital. That's right, yeah. How many subscribers do you have right now? We have over 200,000 subscribers. And we're only a team of seven people. so that's the amazing thing about software you can build something and then it scales infinitely what other do you have any any other services that are i mean yeah so what one thing we do is we cancel hundreds of thousands of subscriptions every year i joke that you don't need ai to cancel a

subscription but in america it's such a broken country that you you do um so some gyms they make you sign this legal letter and have to send it off just to stop them from billing you. The New York Times, you have to chat with an agent to cancel your subscription. And that's a great job for AI. It goes in and it cancels the subscription for you. And all these barriers that these big companies put in the way, such as saying, hey, do you want to stay for three more months at a discounted rate and just to waste your time and get you to give in? AI is ruthless and it will just get through all of that and get it done.

So we like to think that so these big companies, they do things called dark patterns where it's these business strategies to rip people off and AI is the solution to that. Um, what about like credit dispute letters? You know, what if you know, what if you've got bad credit or can it take can it do those that layer? help fix your credit or help get things taken off your credit? Yeah. So my missioner do not pay is to replace lawyers so that the average person doesn't need to hire a lawyer. And we looked at credit dispute companies. And these companies are evil because they charge people thousands of dollars just to do

a very simple fix on their credit report. And so we decided to replace them. And we didn't know anything about credit reporting. And so what we did is I had one of my team members interview for a job at a credit repair agency to find out exactly what they do so that we can automate it with AI. And we figured out what they did and we've got that as a product now. And similar to other types of disputes, it's really about just sending in these letters under the Fair Credit Reporting Act and causing so much paperwork for these companies that they don't respond and then the

consumer wins and that negative items get removed. And that would be something that a consumer would previously pay thousands of dollars for, but it's now included in our. list of services, and people love that. Do you have any stories or anything of any specific cases or any more of anything interesting that, I don't even know what I'm trying to say, any interesting cases that you've handled? Yeah, recently we had an elderly consumer from Boston use our service to get our of a timeshare. They had signed, got suckered into the timeshare agreement and the AI

signed a way out. There's a cooling off period in the timeshare agreement and by law. And it generated this really aggressive letter and got this person out of the timeshare. I think they were like over the age of 80. And the timeshare was actually in Mexico. So it's not even just about US law sometimes. It can go cross border in helping people. And it is very, it's very really a shame. The kind of number of people who are getting ripped off every day is really sad. In the UK, I feel like it's a much fairer country. The consumer rights are much stronger. So, for example, if your flight is delayed in England, where I'm from, you get the refund automatically to your bank account. In the US, you have to apply for the refund. And so there's all these hoops you have to

jump through that we're dealing with every day. Yeah, I was going to say, I have I, this was a while ago, this was probably 20 years ago. I remember we went to a hotel in Puerto Rico, my wife and I at the time, and several things happened. Like, it was a really nice hotel, but several things happened. Like, every time I would enter the hotel, we would get stopped and ask for our key. And like the third day, I said, but why do you guys keep doing, you keep, like, it's, first of all, it's the same guy. I was like, why do you keep doing this? Yes.

And he said, well, there's a nightclub upstairs. and people use the elevator here when they should go around. So we check the keys. We checked to make sure you have your, you know, your car, your room club. Yeah, I remember going, like, it was my wife and I were dressed like tourists. We had a baby with us. Yeah. You know, like, we're not going to the club with the baby.

So that happened. And another thing happened was a staff member walked into our room one morning at like 7.30 in the morning. Like just knocked on the door, open the door and walked in. And we were like, hey, hey, what are you doing? and they were like, oh, and the guy had a drill. They were fixing something, and we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And he left, and there was one other issue.

I remember I went back to my office and I wrote a letter when I got back from vacation. I wrote a letter and they sent to us like five days, you know, four nights, you know, five days and four nights for free. Yeah. And it was another time that like my son had thrown his, there used to be game boys. He threw a game boy down on the ground. He was like three. And it broke. And I just mailed it back to the company with a letter saying,

we love your product. And I said exactly what happened. Admittedly, my son threw this on the ground. Is there any way I could pay to have it fixed? Now, I know they can't fix it. You know, instead, they sent us a brand new one with a bunch of games. So sometimes just responding, you know, in a way, it gets you something because nobody responds.

I mean, nobody writes letters. Yeah, I'm the exact same person as you. I don't, I believe in the justice. It's not always about the money, but even just getting that refund or getting what's right is so important to me. And so I'm the type of person to wait on hold for five hours just to get that $100 refund. And what I'm trying to do is scale asks, you sound very good at writing these letters, but not everyone has the time or the skills to do it. And that's what we're automating with do not pay. Yeah, it's funny.

I had a, so I have a, we had a couple that were friends. And my wife at the time had told them, oh, Matt wrote a letter and got us, whatever, four nights, five days, whatever. And so she ended up writing a letter, whatever, weeks later for an issue. And they came back and they were like, they just gave her an apology. And she was like, I don't understand. I wrote them that nothing happened. I go, what did you say? I told them that the hotel was horrible.

I told them that I would never stay. there again. I told them and I was like, well, whoa, you didn't give them an out. You didn't give them an opportunity to correct the situation. You just told them you're horrible. You'll never use them again. I said, I asked them, is there any way for us to rectify this? We love your hotel. We stay there all of time. Our family stay there. So I structured it to give them an out. She didn't give them an out. Yeah. So in AI, there's something called prompty, which is where you tell the AI how to negotiate or what you want AI to say. And we completely agree with you.

We say, we want you to say all these laws, we feed it, we train it about the laws, but we say you have to be polite. And that's the most important thing, because no one wants to give something to a bad person. If you're rude or impolite, they're not going to give you a refund as quickly. We actually have one product. It scans your email bookings for hotels. And every time you're about to check into a hotel a few days before,

it writes to the manager and writes a really, polite, nice note saying, hey, I love your hotel so much. It uses data like, this is my first booking or I'm the first time I'm in the city, you potentially, uh, uh, open to giving me an upgrade. And it works a very high rate because it's a personal touch. So I agree. It's not always about the law as being about a charismatic, nice kind of letter as well. So how, how do you see this scaling. I mean, at what rate is there a ceiling to it? How are your growth, I guess, for the company? I'm biased, but I think everyone in America and one day the world can use a robot lawyer to help them. One day I want to go international. UK is a slightly better, less broken

country than the US, but it's still got serious problems. And so I want to expand there. Australia, Anywhere where there's rule of law, I think it will work well. We've got our works cut out for us here in America first. We're launching new products every week. Last week, we launched a product that funds up UPS and FedEx, and when they promise two-day delivery and they give it three days, it funds them up and get a refund. So we're figuring out a way to automate all of these different areas.

But every problem and worldwide, I think, is where we want to take it. Right. What about politicians? Do you have anything that will write your local politician? We have that today. And also writing to inmates, there are these really exploitative companies that charge you like $5 to send a message. And we've automated it with the mail. So politicians and inmates you can write to using Do Not Pay. There's too many services to me. Okay. What is one of your, what's one of the newest? services. One service we have is called the free trial credit card. So a lot of people, they sign up for a free trial and they obviously forget to cancel. So we've built a credit card that is a burner credit card that you can use that's not linked to you. So you can use it for all your free trials and things like that and reservations as well. And when they

try and charge you at the clients. So that's really popular service with people. people. What kind of, how are you advertising this? We do a lot of social, which is how you found out about us. We also do SEO. So we publish about 50,000 consumer guides on our website. So things like how to sue United, how to get a refund from Comcast. People find it organically on Google. And every three paragraphs is a button that says, solve this problem for me. And of course, people don't like to read. They just would prefer the software does it for that. So that's really it.

We don't spend that much money on advertising. People just love our product and word of mouth and those two ways is how we grow. Do you have, so you're saying social, you know, you do social media, but I mean, I saw your Instagram. Do you have any, do you have a TikTok or? We have TikTok. We're really doubling down on it. I've realized the power of it.

So not advertising on those platforms, but just. content that appeals to people. So I think the way you discovered us is we did this post about how to sue robot callers and I think it got 100,000 like, or something crazy like that. And people really resonate with this stuff. Everyone is

busy and gets money taken out their account every day. And so where they see this content, it helps them fight back. Do you do all the advertising or do you have anyone else to it also? No. I do it.

one of my teammates does it. We're not experts at anything. We just love what we do and figure things out as we go. I think I would love to go into how it actually works. Yeah, I would love to hear out. Okay. My fear is that that's probably more technical than my billy.

People are at eye level. So when chat GPT first came out, it was a much simpler AI. It was called GPT3. At about six months later, the company behind Chat, GPT came up with a more sophisticated AI called GPT4. And what we've seen at Do Not Pay is that,

and we're using this ourselves, so businesses like ours can plug in to chat GPT and use it for our disputes. And when they upgraded the AI, it became almost 10 times better for what we're doing. So when we were negotiating with Comcast, for example, the old AI, the old chat GPT, would say things like, well, Comcast would say,

give you a $20 discount, and then our AI would say, sounds good, thank you so much. But now the new AI says, no, I want $100 because there's been four outages in the past 24 hours. And so what's really exciting is we're seeing firsthand just how good the technology is getting. And every week, it feels like we're making years of progress. And I'm excited to see what's going to happen like next year as well with GPT-5. okay yeah um i was gonna say i mean my my wife's daughter has like will talk to like it's a friend and go like first time she discovered this app she went like all day yeah when i was growing up if we would joke that like you only had like online friends yeah that you had these friends that you

had these friends, these Facebook friends, that you never, ever met. But now, it's not even my date. I'm getting old. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I mean, I have a friend in Silicon Valley. He's building a company that makes AI girlfriends. And that's not a watch I want to live in. But I suppose it can help lots of lonely people. Um, yeah, I mean, I've got, I have a buddy who, who just sit me a, he had, um, he had, um, he had, um, he had, chat, GPT, write an article about me, just why stuff it found on the internet, read this whole article. And I have a, I have a friend that uses it all the time to do, to write stuff. And he'll go through and, as he's proofreading it, he'll alter little bits and pieces, but it is amazing.

It's amazing that the responses and the, well, anyway, you know all this. Anyway. Yeah, well, there is a problem, which is the AI is very dishonest. So the way they train the AI is they make it like us. And humans are very dishonest in general. And so what we see in our disputes sometimes is that AI is lying on the consumer's behalf. So earlier I mentioned the chat GPT AI would say, oh, I've had four internet outages recently. And that would just not be true. And so from a legal liability perspective, we have to tell the AI, make sure you stick to the truth. And same with writing stories about you. It could make things up. And there's been plenty of places where someone has asked chat GPT about someone

and chat GPT has said this person is a convicted criminal and it's just not true and it would cause a lot of problems for open AI in my case that is true yeah well it's access to justice is something I feel very strongly about

but that I didn't come up with that based on your example it would say like this person is like not well respected I'm not sure it would just say these mean things Yeah, well, like there's stuff that it will pull, you know, the sources it's pulling from say Wikipedia, for example. Yeah, there are things on Wikipedia about me that aren't true, that it mentioned,

or it would say things like, you know, there was a, somebody had said something about like I was on the FBI's, like I was number one on the FBI's Most Wanted list and that wasn't true. And then that showed up. Yeah. And I feel like you, you should. Consumers have rights, you should be able to fight back against that. If I was saying, if I was going on TV and saying all these untrue things, I could get sued and the same is true about an AI. Someone has to take responsibility for what it does.

Yeah, I can't get Wikipedia. I've actually got the guy who asked by Wikipedia page, you know, who posted it. I've argued with him and argued with him. And he's, I remember at one point, I said, look, bro, you know, this is not true. like what he said and listen most of it is true but there's a few things

I'm like I'm just trying to be accurate and he said remember when he came back he said Matt Cox is not an expert

on Matt Cox I thought let's try to be an expert I'm just basing it on the facts but yeah it's difficult so

there are a lot of disabantages to AI which is what I was saying but there's also a lot of advantages which is not biased it's not that bias and that's why

I think it has some room in law because it doesn't really care who you are. It just is objective. It's statistical, so it's flawed, but at least it's somewhat objective. Like, AI would never say you're not an expert. Right. Right. Yeah, I'm very interested in the credit aspect of it. For instance, there's, you know, my wife actually has a family member that has some credit issues. And I was thinking about writing some letters, you know, to try and get some medical collections taken off of her credit. So the way it works is once you open up a dispute, they, the person who put the debt

on the credit report has a certain amount of time to respond. And they're so busy with paperwork that if you just keep forcing them to respond, they'll eventually forget or not be bothered. And then when they don't respond, you win by default. So that's the way that these shady credit repair agencies work. And it's an easy job to automate. It's funny, I moved out of an apartment like a year and a half ago. When I moved out, they wanted to keep my deposit.

And listen, I left that apartment as clean as when I moved in it, vacuumed it, cleaned the carpets, painted. You know, you put stuff in the walls, painted the patched and painted the walls. And they had a whole list of things. that they said they had to do. Luckily, I took all these photos. But the big thing was, I just started arguing with them back and forth, back and forth. And I wore them down and they ended up, it was a, it was like a $300 deposit. They ended up keeping like $42 or something ridiculous.

But they were keeping, when it started off, they said I owed them $50. Yeah, it's, um, half the battle in life is just standing up for yourself. And this is my life philosophy. Not everyone has the time or the confidence sometimes to do it. That's why machines can do it on people's behalf. So I have a question. When people sign up for the subscription, do they have to pay like a year in advance or is it just month to month? Two months in advance.

Two months in advance? Yeah, because that's what we see is the success time for most of our disputes. If you think about like getting a parking ticket back and things like that. Hey, I really appreciate you guys watching. If you like the video, do me a favor and share the video to your friends and family. Subscribe. Also, we're going to leave all of Joshua's links in the description box. And he's got some really interesting videos on Instagram.

So check it out and do me a favor and leave me a comment in the comment section. I try and respond to as many as I possibly can. And I really appreciate you guys watching. See you. We're going to be going over, this is real. I didn't think this through. Scams we admire. Like, I'm trying to be like a clean cut guy.

Well, it doesn't mean you can't admire something. No. It's like you have a beautiful wife. That's true. Right. But then you might admire another woman. You might say, hey, Cindy Crawford is attractive. You know, I might see another.

So you can, you know, rehabilitate and say, that's clever. Jess has killed just about every animal there is in Florida. Oh. Um, she's butchered them, she can cut them open, cut all take out the gut, skin them and put like all the good stuff in a freezer and then, you know, eat it. She's already told me they'll never find your body. She's like, I mean, I get it. Like there are girls that cute. They flirt with you. They send you messages. And I get it and that's great. She says, but I'm just letting you know, they'll never find your body. Like, I didn't even have to follow up on that. I don't know. What is that mean? What do you? I was just like, this new is ominous. just like got it no problem yeah listen she's got me so scared like when when women you will text me you know they'll text you know they'll hit you up on instagram or whatever you know hey how's it going or wow you're amazing and i'll listen within the first sentence or two it's like yeah my wife thinks so just in case it's a plant right you know case she's trying to like go right like hey

i need you to send something to matt yeah you know i'm like yeah you're like yeah you're You're not sucker. Oh, so you're a one step ahead of it. Oh, yeah. That's that mentality. That's that mentality, like for you people that with cons and schemes, the mentality of looking at it from the reverse angle. That's what I, that's what I always call it too. That'll keep you alive.

Yes, yes. Or out of you. You spin it around and you say, you know what, let me try to see it from the other perspective coming back towards me. Yeah. No. Nah. I'm not falling for it. Yeah.

Good times. Yeah. So what, so what is the scam? What is a scam? Because there's no one scam. No. But is there a scam or what, what scams? A scam like for the definition of this podcast is kind of an idea to gain money.

Like I might have an idea like, hey, I'm like I might have come across a checkbook and go, you know what? I got an idea. I'm going to write a check off of this guy's account. account who we don't know to you you're going to deposit in your account we're going to split it right and you might go hey I'm down with that you know I'm saying that is what I know who would be you'd be shocked look at you'd be shocked you would be shocked I know a guy yeah you would you would absolutely be shocked you it's it's unbelievable but um that that is a scam or I'm even I consider

a scam is like the what I was privy to was the shoplifters like I knew I knew four ladies that did shoplifting right and like I was lucky enough to sit in on one of their meetings you know because they have

one person that draws in the security so the other three are actually going to steal and get away and the other one's going to draw security and draw security like act like she's not steal anything be absolutely sloppy obvious so that security kind of hangs out and kind of watches her right and really focus on shared and and what they do is they they come in all separate and then they all watch her to see as she oh yeah she's being watched let's go you know that is a scam you know because they're well choreograph yes core yes well something that's pre-planned but i really i want to

use the legal term premeditated that's that's when you know you've turned turn turn corner yes when you start using that's right we start using the legal term yes the law enforcement term it's so pre so premedit so if if i told you hey i'm going to write you a check this is premeditated whereas i could have just wrote you a check and said hey i'm going to give you a hundred bucks i need you to cash you i could lie right but to put everyone in on it is is the scam you know me like we're all working together to obtain money that is what we call a scam yeah yeah so that's what we're because what happened was scheme scheme scheme really isn't illegal by the way the term scheme yes that's that's what i was thinking scheme is is is to me legal right scheme seems

singular like if you use the word scheme it seems like it seems like it would only be one person really yeah a scheme seems like so then in my mind a scheme would have a a mastermind you know, which means like that one person is the ultimate benefactor and all, you know, I spent a lot of time in jail thinking about the differences. So, does it reflect? I think, whatever, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're synonyms. Anyway, whatever, roughly. So, yeah, so, yeah, like one person benefiting.

So you got the little benefactors. I would say. So, so that. A scam is a group effort. Like, hey, I got an idea. Okay, so what, what happened? I disagree, but what happened, what, what, I don't understand. So you, that's the scam you admire, the one where they're shoplifting or just you admire

the fact that they drew law enforcement away? Yes. Okay. Because of the brilliance of it. Like you, like, you would say that only because I'm given the simplicity of it. Right. But to watch that in action because it works. So the, the, the one person.

that's the draw, the person that draws their attention, actually gets stopped at the register. Right. And what's so funny is that they're not in any jeopardy at all. No. And the other people leave with pre, like they have orders of stuff going in. It's unbelievable. They have orders of stuff going in. And the one girl stopped at the register. Oh, and she gives them a sob story. It cries. And then 20 minutes, you know, they're texting on the phone. And it's like they're going to let me go. And then they end up letting them go with, hey, don't ever come back in the store. Right. But the whole time, it's like, okay. Okay, we got like $6,000 worth of stuff.

You're saying she really does steal stuff and they get caught or she? She gets stopped at the register. She makes it look like. I was going to say like to me, to me like in front of them, you could, like with the camera, I would kind of show myself like putting stuff in a bag and then move to a spot and then take the stuff out of the bag. Oh. Do you what I'm saying?

Like to me, you get up to the cash register and then they'd come and they'd grab you. Oh, no. Oh, empty your bag and you'd empty the bag. You'd be like, what? They'd be like, holy Jesus. Like, I saw her. Like, I could see that would be a, right. And then they'd have to let you go.

It's like, what do you talk? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I did put a skirt. I did put the skirt in there. And then I realized, oh, wait a second, this looks bad. I got, I need to, I took it out. And then I thought, well, I don't even want this. So I just left it on the counter.

It's over there, you know. So, but I was going to say what that reminds me of is the, you know, the Romanian wall. It was called the Romanian wall where they had, there was people from Romania. Or the gypsy wall, they called it. it too so people would go into like and they had video of 7-Elevens and stuff where people would there would be like six or eight people would come in and in a group and one and so the person at the counter let's say 7-11 would look and see this group move you know coming in and they create

almost like a wall they're just kind of bundled together and somebody else would walk in crouched down and walk in behind them so the camera you know sees them but the other camera sees the person but this is just this guy's not watching the camera he's watching these people right so they come in and then they kind of move through the store they have kind of a direction where they're kind of walking and moving and the one guy somebody says hey something to the to the cashier and he looks over here and the person who's bent down who he doesn't even know in the store kind of like moves towards the cash register he's right there and so as these guys are talking he's moving around the cash register and literally they have videos of this of these guys where the guy will be he'll go behind in the cash register with the guy and like go into and steal like all kinds of stuff that's back there that's hidden while these guys are loud and they're playing music and they're talking and banging stuff and doing this and he's kind of just watching and watching steal stuff go back then they pull the wall back together and the guy walks out with them and all they've bought is like a stick of gum and he walks out with you know whatever hundreds of dollars of cartons of cigarettes

or there have been times where they've gone into the safe there's been times where they said like they took it a gun they got a gun how that that that even but then later they'd look at the camera they'd be like oh my god and if you watch it you're like this is insane watching that in play the know that that's choreographed because like you have to wonder do they practice that they have to practice right like it's if you watch the videos on youtube and stuff you're just going this is nuts you're almost like how could he not and you're like okay I get it but from his perspective, he's not seeing it. He's only seeing these groups of people. And then once the guy gets under the counter, he's done. He would have to turn around and start looking at the

videos that are shooting from the other way. And who's doing that? He's trying to see if these guys are stealing. And they are. They're not. They're stealing. They're paying for it. They're a distraction. Yeah. Unbelievable. That reminds me. That's, so that's what I'm saying. It's the same kind of thing. Right. You're just drawing their attention. Um, to a way. And that's, that's a, That's a scam. Yeah. Do you remember? I shouldn't even say this.

Do you remember when we were talking about... I'm thinking Barrington, but go ahead. No, no. I'm thinking when we were locked up and we were talk about the identity theft scam where it was like, what if someone stole somebody's identity. Like, I steal your identity. Right. Which, given that you're a man of color would be difficult.

But let's assume I steal your identity. I get a driver's license in your name. I run up all your credit cards. I then borrow money against your house. The whole thing. But I happen to have life lock. Do you remember this? So this was what we used to joke about.

And it was, and then. when suddenly you start getting the credit cards, the whole thing. Like, I would do that because I'm not worried about him. You know, the biggest, worst problem would be that the person you're still their identity finds out and calls a police, but I know he's not going to call. What's going to happen is once the first credit cards start showing up, you then call the police, hey, look, I got an issue, man. I got like a $40,000 credit card bill.

Someone took my credit card. You call your credit card company, you do this, and then more bills start. showing up you start going oh whoa well i need somebody come out of it like i got like a hundred thousand dollars in credit card debt somebody stole my credit cards no i don't know i have them on me i don't or maybe i lost my wallet but i didn't give anybody my pen numbers like this is ridiculous right and so you do all that you run it all up then you find out maybe there's a mortgage on their house or somebody took out a 50 000 or personal loan in your name you're like oh my god right so we were talking about like you run it up to 300 000 like it's insane you're calling the police

but the interesting thing about that was that what we were saying well what you were saying really was you were like but i know what's going on because i can call the police and say well do you have any leads well what's happening well what happened and the police would be like look we're doing it we found this we found this there was a p o box that was opened well who opened the p o box we we can't find the person that opened the so you're going through the whole thing or it was an abandoned house it's actually in your neighborhood what you know but you would know because you would know because Because at some point, they would be, they would say, look, you know, we're, we're just out of option. We don't know what to do. And you're also involved because the credit card people are contacting you. Right. So at some point, even if there was a prosecution, the worst that could happen is you were saying you would, you could, you could say, look, I'm not going to participate in that prosecution. I got my money back. The credit card companies paid the money back.

And we got the thing with the mortgage taken care of. and I don't want any trouble with who. I don't know who you arrested, but I don't want any trouble with that person. And then being the person, if they did end up getting arrested, I could then say, man,

I'm going to trial. And they'd be like, Jesus, knowing when the prosecutor comes in and says, oh, listen, this guy's going to show up. He's going to testify.

He'd be like, is he? I can't wait to see him. We had this whole thing laid out. Right. And the other one was, the identity theft, the life lock, was that you could also claim against life lock to say. You could sue for allowing all that to happen.

Right. Because, but when we were locked up, you and I thought, and I know differently now, but we thought, remember they say up to a million dollars, it was a million dollars in legal fees that they would pay to fix it. we were thinking that that was like insurance that they would right like they would pay off your credit cards or they would but they won't it's just it's just um they would just um they would just call and file the claims for you which would still be good because because you could still say they could do all that for you you have to do nothing is that what they is that all life lock does is just file the claims life lock and um home title lock they will hire an attorney that will file all the paperwork. to reinstate your credit cards, get the balances dropped, to, I mean, now, home title lock only does it for mortgages. Right. Life lock only does it for identity theft. Okay. So if you had both of them.

Which you probably have to have. Yeah. But you could really insure yourself completely against the whole thing. Yep. But what we were, when we were locked up, we were thinking they would pay you, but they won't pay you. No. Yeah. And the thing is too, it's like it's a service. It's not insurance because they just don't insure you. Right. But they will pay for the fees, which honestly is the biggest hurdle if something happens.

Right. You're trying to like you got like a 40, 50 hour a week job and you're driving back and forth. Like when do you have time to write all those letters and try and fix all this? If you're a real victim, if you're really our victim, like that's the problem. Like you got to write letters. You got to send emails. You have to make phone calls. like, man, I'm working until five or six o'clock. I don't even get home till 6.30. Then my kids are screaming. I got to make dinner. I got, you know, like, when do you call anybody? You got to start taking days off work to try and fix it? Yeah. Yeah. No. So, count me out. So a couple of the schemes that I admired, you know, I think we talked about one of them, which was the, um, what had to do with the Kellogg's. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I admire, you know what's so funny about that scheme is that came to me at a phone call. My wife and I are sitting at the house and I don't know what we were watching, but

somebody called and go, hey, they call up and they go, hey, they got you on television. I go, what channel? NBC. I go, me? They go, no, they got the kind of crap that you do. So then I turn it over to NBC and it was a, I think it was American greed. But what was happening, it was showing a guy that was cashing like $100,000 checks. How's that even possible?

That's what I was, I'm like, oh, my God. So what was happening was there was a oil rig. Somebody worked for an oil company in Houston. And this woman was seeing the checks come in to pay the oil company. And what the guy had done was he opened up a similar company with the oil, with the name of the company. Like he went to another state and opened up a company that had a similar name as the, company that was receiving the checks. So if we were paying an oil company, if we were Matt and Zach's gas station, we might

write an oil company a check for like $300,000 for a shipment of oil. Well, the woman that worked in the office was giving that to her friend and he was depositing it into an account he started that had a very similar name as the oil company. This is what they're putting out on American greed. So like my wife and I were sitting there watching this, right? and we looked at each other like why didn't we think of doing it because here's what's funny

here's what we were doing at the time I'm sorry that's so wrong it is it's a horrible horrible honey can you believe that no it was one of those moments where we're sitting the reason why that happened is because what we were doing at the time

is we were making checks So we would go to mailboxes, business mailboxes, and steal the mail at night. We just look for checks. And what we do is we'd find a check and then I would make a check payable to someone off of that. I was just looking for a fresh account.

So we were finding all these business checks. In fact, one time, remember we found a $100,000 check. Right. I'm like, geez, man, I wish we could cash that somehow. You know, and that's what was happening. We see all these checks and we just make a duplicate check for like $4,000 or $5,000 in deposit. it in an account with somebody and just get the money out and run that was our whole deal so

when we're watching television and they go hey he was actually cashing the checks that he was getting for their full amount you just looked at each other like can you imagine if we had known this with the $100,000 check like chase what's I was going to say what's funny is people don't realize like you can open a corporation and then you can open up a DBA or a corporation a corporation similar. You could say, like, you know, like, let's say there's, you know, this drink, what?

Ghost energy drink. Then you could open up a corporation that says, you know, that's ghost, you know, that's ghost, you know. Distributor. Yeah, ghost distributor. Ghost production. Ghost energy. You know, ghost energy, you know, drink two.

Yes. You know, whatever. Like, it's like, you know, you know, of Tampa Bay, you know, of Florida or whatever. You just adds anything on to it that changes it subtly. And then the next thing you know, you know, you can go open up a bank. bank account in that name and deposit checks, you know, with that name or any, any, any variation

of that name because the banks just don't check. They, you know, who it's going to, the address. They don't even match the state. They just look at the name and, in process. Yeah, I used to have a company, you know, consortium financial services. They would write consortium mortgage. This is people paying me. Yes.

They'd send me, oh, consortium mortgage, consortium bank, consortium whatever, you know, home loans. It's like, it's consortium financial services. Sometimes it would just be consortium. Not just deposit them, deposit them. The bank never said, oh, wait a second. This is an issue. Yeah. And so it was, so we obviously, we did that, picked up checks.

We probably did over $100,000 in checks when somebody called us and said they had a friend that worked in Kellogg's. That was a story that I shared. And that's how that whole scheme developed. Yeah, we did that whole, we did a whole, that video got a lot of views. That's the Kellogg video The Kellogg, yes So when we called the girl You can imagine like we were dancing

Because when we called the girl I asked her She goes oh well I work up in the office And I see the checks I said okay well How much is a check? She goes probably the smallest check is Probably like two and a half million

What? It's like I go It's over We're done Our fraud and days are over Seven million dollar Kellogg's game yeah selling no stealing seven million from Kellogg's yes that just sounds um yeah yeah that got like 70,000 views wow it's not bad for my channel and that was like a year

ago that was it we a year ago it must have been just just before yes right the incident yes the horrible incident so yeah that that that's what led to that discovery because we had we started of all the crap we were doing, we added that to our reputore and just started making money and that's when the girl from Kellogg's came into our life and gave us a possibility of getting a $7 million

check from Kellogg's. I remember telling, I'm like, we're done. Seven million bucks, it's over. We give the girl a million. Yeah. You know. Yeah, you're not doing it. You know what's so funny

as my mindset back then? Like, it was never going to be over. I used to always say, I mean, if I just got a few million dollars. If I got a few million dollars, I would have said, that was easy. You think it didn't that? Well, well, yeah, you're right. No, it was.

It was, it was the whole, just like that stupid thing I was just making. It's that quote. It's the, there's nothing. There's just no feeling in the world like walking in a bank, handing them a fake ID and some fake documents. And then having them hand you a check for two. $250,000 and thank you for ripping them off. Like, I mean, that's just insane. Yes.

And that feeling you're like, like, this is insane, right? Like, I'm going to walk in there. And then, or even thank you and telling you what a great customer you've been. Like, I borrowed like a couple hundred thousand dollars one time. And I was hate, I would say this because I had a guy who like read my book who came back and was like, you said you borrowed a couple hundred thousand dollars. In the book, it says you borrowed $120,000. It was just like, whatever. I don't remember what it was, okay, $150,000, $200,000, whatever it was.

I had borrowed it in the name of this, a fake, it was a real person. It was a homeless guy. So I borrowed that money and then, and he had perfect credit. Right. So got a check for, whatever, let's say $150,000. Went and deposited it in my bank and immediately, as soon as I did it, the person goes, okay, thank you. And they went.

Oh, you've been approved for a $350,000. $30,000 credit card. And I went, you mean pre-approved? She goes, no, you've been approved. Of course I've been approved. I just deposited a check for $150,000 in cash. I mean, $150,000 into my account. And I do have perfect credit.

You know, that guy had perfect credit. And she said, all you have to do is tell me you want the card and we'll have it overnighted to you. And I went, yes, I do. A free $30,000 for ripping you off? Absolutely. Hand that over. See, the problem is, that's how you and I love.

look at it as a free 30 grand to them they're like it's a credit line you're like no no no that's not the way this works i promise you it's free there's no payments getting made no i promise you it's free yeah but i won't be once they catch up with me behind this show right now though i'm walking up out of this mug i got a sports car i got a hot girlfriend yes amen going on some vacations yeah right up until they put them cuffs on me. That's right. Then it's unfree.

But I'm going to Australia. Listen, if I was a cop, you know how much fun I would have? I'd be like with with a couple of guys that are like, you know, what they're saying, you know, like, no, no, I, I, but I, I can't, you can't arrest me. I, I'm like, stop it, bro. We got you on video. Two of your code of finish rolled on you. Oh, you know, damn.

Well, you'd play along. You're like, oh, oh, you were going to Australia. Hold on. Let me get the keys to the cuffs. Yeah. There's no way. You'd be like, come on, bro. We got you on film.

It's kind of like my arrest with the, oh, what is your name? Albert Henley. Albert Henley, you have ID? Of course I have ID. Here you go. Yeah, all right. Anyway. Then there goes another charge.

Now we got aggravated identity. He just looked at it like. You're good. Wow. Here you go. Come on, let's go. Go on, Albert. Okay, Albert, let's go.

You're going to jail. We're not going to arrest Isaac anymore. We're arrested Albert, guys. That's right. Oh, my God. Good times. Getting arrested is not good times. Maybe so.

Good out of it. It's fun looking back on it. At the time, it's not fun. Oh, no. There's like everything spins in your head. that and the time when you get your time in court immediately I just got a job at McDonald's

Immediately I shouldn't have done none of that stuff Yeah immediately regret every single thing And then you know But then you get out and six months go by And you're like Listen I just heard

Yeah but you You haven't said you money in jail For the past two years Yeah but doesn't mean I'm not I've perfected it. I've thought it over. I've got it perfected. I'm going to do it right this time.

Yeah, insanity. Insanity. Insanity thought. All right. So another hustle that I liked, if we get back on topic, I hope you don't mind. All right,

another one I like was a guy that was selling clean air credits. Oh yeah. Remember me telling me about that? Yeah. So apparently there is passed by George Bush clean air credits

for all the companies that spit pollution into the atmosphere, what they do is they make them invest in companies that actually take pollution out of the atmosphere. It's just the right thing to do. Yeah. And so they created a, I didn't even know this existed until I watched.

Apparently it doesn't exist. Oh, it still does. No, I'm saying based on what your guy was doing. Oh, yeah. That's what they're probably all doing. You're taking all that carbon and all this stuff. Out of the air, come on, stop it, bro. Like, no, no, we're planting trees.

The planting, planting tree, and for poop, people who process or help disintegrate manure and stuff like that into fertilizer, that actually cleans the air, believe it or not. But I'm going to tell you, like the clean the ocean, what's the name of that company that sends out those bags for, we take gunk out of the ocean? Have you seen that, those commercials for them? No. I don't watch a lot of TV, though. Oh, there's a company there's a one big company out there that cleans the ocean that they claim to clean cleans the ocean and they go, oh, we're sponsored by so many, you know, people helping us out, helping us clean. We take donations that most of their money. I heard this on NPR. A majority of their money comes from the clean air credits. All companies that pollute the ocean pay them big time for going out there and taking gunk out of the ocean. So with those, so those things are still around. What it was I didn't know is that there was a marketplace for the balance. So if corporations that dirty up the air obviously have much, much more money, right,

than corporations that actually clean the air. So the corporations that clean the air actually sell clean air credits to those companies. And they have a certain amount that they need to have. They actually fight and bid. It's a bidding war. It's like eBay for the clean air. Because sometimes it goes up depending on the demand. So obviously the schemer

I don't know why I just pictured I just pictured Christi's I just pictured a bunch of corporate fat cats on a stage You should have seen the episode, bro. Behind the auctioneer at Christie's and in the crowd it's nothing but hippies And they're all like, you badsters, 300,000, I'll go 300, I'll go 280, I'll go 260, you know, and they're, you shut up, Jennifer.

And they've got their combing their hair and they're wearing flower and it. Yeah, you know, making beautiful baby. There's a band, you know, the monkeys are playing the background that, you know, you're the monkeys. Yes, I love the monkeys. But anyway. Anyway, yes, so this schemer obviously got approved by the EPA. Nice. But what he did was he rented a place, rented the equipment.

I can't even remember how he fraudulently told him he was cleaning the air. They came over, the EPA gave him the seal of approval. Once he got that approval, he went on the cleaning. He shut everything down. Yeah. Well, he leased the machine. Listen, when they came and checked. him out, he, he, he, when he, because they would announce we're coming in two weeks. Oh, you are? Yeah, I need

at least another couple of machines. And he'd bring them back. Yeah. In the warehouse, get him around back. Get in some hippies out here and some tree huggers to do, dude, like we're doing like we're do-gooders. American greed was cursing them up and down. Round up 50 do-goaters. Yeah. Stick them in there. We're picking up trash on the side of the road, you bastards. But exactly. American greed was criticizing the EPA, for approving him three, three times he was checked out all three times he passed. Like, yeah, he's doing it.

Selling clean air credits. I told you what caught him was he had this pension for expensive cars. He bought like $3 million worth of expensive cars. He had like a Lamborghini, not a Jaguar, but what's the other cat car? Cat car? I want to see it.

It's another car that's like 100,000, Not a Lamborghini, but it's another $100,000 car. I can't know what. Lamborghinis are like three, 400,000 minimum. Oh, yeah, Ferrari, what? May a Ferrari, but he, he, he, Maserati, that was the other one. That was the other one.

He had, he had about over like $4 million, $3 million worth of cars parked out by his house. It would be like someone pull in and you have $3 million in cars. Like, he was in a regular neighborhood like yours. And you just come up and you go, Like, dude, what the hell is with all these expensive cars? Hey, I'm just living like that. Yeah, I'm just, um, so they call the police.

Just, that's how he got caught. I'm just doing the right thing. Yeah. That's how he got caught. That's how he got caught. The police come and he's got all the paperwork for the cars. And they're kind of like, okay. And they hands it over to, I guess, a, uh, a detective or a fraud investigator who kind of

runs the guy. And he checks him. out like the EPA calls and makes an appointment right he checked them out without an appointment like um I don't know how you're selling all those clean air credit sitting in this empty warehouse but I'm fin to tell somebody so okay so no so he told the EPA and well yeah I think they yeah and then they brought him up on he only like when it all came and down to it I think he got like three years in prison but he stole like about $8 million, $8 or $9 million.

I'll do three years for $8 million. That's what we ought to have a bit. They didn't even know, they didn't even understand the charge. It was crazy. It was like a unique, they had to charge him uniquely because there was really no crime of what he was doing, like false statement type of charge, like the 1001. Like the beginning of the charge is making a false, giving false information. That was a charge.

And that only carries three years. So I guess they, he got nothing. But go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I was thinking, I was just thinking, I was thinking during the Civil War, you know, they were conscripting people, right? So either you had to show up or one of your, you ever, your family, right? Or you could say, hey, I can't do it.

I want to, you know, fellas, I want to. I'm with you. I want to be with, can't be with you. can't be with you. I got to do the farm. I got to do the whole thing. But I've got my slave John. He can go for me. And they would say, okay, well, put your mark here. John and John would put his mark. And he'd be in the army. I thought, what if you were super rich and you're going to jail and you were able to say, listen, I know I got four years or I know I got three years. I can't go. But Matt will do my time for me. And then I have to compensate Matt to do my

time like bro you know i i would i'm ready to sign up like i'll do what kind of first in the custody level like oh no you're going you're going to a pin oh matt how much for the pen listen pens 150 000 a year 200 000 a year i'll do for you i'll do four years do four years for you but you got a you know but it's going to be a million dollars up front in my lawyers you know could you could negotiate that and in a way you're i think i know what you're going to say you know away people do you can i'll tell you an incident that i know about but go ahead oh i was saying i was going to say i sat in county jail one time wondering if it was possible to get someone else to do my sentence like i i like you were describing about the you being me yeah like like i told myself

how much would it disturb the system if i've allowed someone to become me and they just go turn hey i'm isaac allen well no no i don't i mean like like like if there was a actually a system. Oh, you mean like a legal system? Legal capitalized, legal capitalized, look, you've got to do this much time. You have to give us this much time and say, listen, I'm not going to. But I've paid this service and they're going to provide someone that will do that time for me. And they go, okay, do you have the paperwork?

Do you have an SS12 form? Yes. Do you have a 722 form? Yes. Did he sign? Do I need your driver's license? Oh, I got my driver's license. Like, okay, boom.

And he goes in for you. Like, makes me think of Palmer. He'd be. Right. There are people that will do that. Yeah. They would do that. And here's an example of that.

A real world example. We used to call this guy the, they used to call, they were calling him the Mexican Tony soprano. There was a cartel member in Atlanta that had gotten like 15 or 20 years, right? Like he's got like seven lawyers. And this was in Atlanta in Atlanta City Detention Center, right, ACDC, where you could, you would meet with your lawyer in the, you. unit they would walk in into a room and it was like a glass room like there was a glass wall

and well you know a glass you know it's it's the metal piping with the thing you'd walk in there with your lawyer or whoever and you'd they'd close the door and you'd sit there and have a conversation um he crews like five six lawyers showed up every time to see this guy he had tons of money his celly just to let you i'm just saying this is the kind of guy he was you know his Selly was a black guy that was complaining because his baby's mama's car had broke down and it just blew like the engine blew right and he went he was yeah he said give me your address I'll get her another car somebody drop a car and he's just no man you don't understand he's like no I understand she needs a car he's like are you serious he said yeah man yeah this is a guy that every time commissary came like his bag was full and three other guys bags were full that he was buying people like that right So, meaning he's putting money on other people's commissary accounts to buy him stuff, and they get 20%. Right.

So what he did was, oh, by the way, that guy, like when that whole thing happened, I remember like three days later, he got off the phone with his girlfriend and said, you're not going to believe this. We were sitting there, I remember we were playing chess or something. Oh, this is true story. Oh, it's true. The black guy came up, and he was looking for his cellie, right? His cellie was, I forget, he had been moved for medical.

He was coming back. He was like, bro, remember he said he was going to get a car? He said, Mike, I got a phone two hours ago. Some guy showed up with like a, it wasn't a brand new car. It was like a five-year-old, like, you know, Accura. He's like, I mean, things got like 30,000 miles on it. He was like, he just gave it to him. He signed over the title and everything.

We were like, damn, like Tony did that. He was like, yeah. You know, he had a name that was, you know, definitely scream mafia. Yeah. No, I mean, they called him Tony. He was the Tony Soprano of, but no, he had a Mexican, a Spanish name that was difficult. You know, it wasn't something like Jesus. It was, it was a hard one.

So, and anyway, so what happened was, I remember, too, watching my Dateline episode with him. We were all sitting there watching the Dateline episode on me. And I was sitting there just shaking my hand. I kept looking over at him. He said, you're a bad boy. You, you know. That's what he's saying. You a bad boy.

So here's what he had done. He had paid a peasant, right, in Mexico to come over through the border and told law enforcement who was there and how much, and that he was coming and he had this much dope or whatever in the car, gave him the type of car, the tag, everything. They saw him, they grabbed him. Boom, 5K1. Then he said, so the second, that was one. he was doing so now he doesn't he now he's already down to like 15 years or something he was supposed to get like 25 he's down to 15 he had already arranged it and he'd been in the jail doing this he had arranged to have a guy fly over and land at an airport like a meg shift air you know makeshift airport in

texas and the DEA was going to grab him and he was going to have X amount of pounds of pot and that guy was going to and I was like how much time is it he's like oh no the one guy he gets five he got five years we make sure he you know my lawyer in mexico make sure that he has the just enough to only get five years and i take care of his family the next guy was going to do 10 like guys are lining up to come to do his time for him so he could get his sentence reduced wow yeah i i was just like you know that was listen Atlanta was right but i mean that's the kind of money he had there was a guy in coleman that got this is a guy who we're talking about he's like one step maybe maybe one step below um el chapo when he was running things right is actually the person who's running the

cello was el chapo and el mio right everybody always says al chapo or chalfo of el mio's low profile he's really the guy that started the whole thing and brought in el chavo the point is is that like one guy there's one guy beneath him and the guy beneath him that was the guy I was locked up in coleman with this is an AC this is another another guy that guy had remember the old photo books you could buy yeah old ones yeah you couldn't sell

I don't know about where you were but in Coleman they stopped selling the big ones yeah too big I know what you're talking about but he had the little one or the big no the big it was a big one I know you could only buy the little ones when I was there but there were guys that still had the the big ones huge ones right yeah exactly like they were like three pictures

across and three pictures down back when there were these things called photos that you could actually print out and they were actually photos and he had books full of them he'd done like three or four years and he still had a few more years to go and this is the kind of guy that got caught on a conspiracy and got like a life sentence but had worked it all the way down by giving up low level guys that knew what that was going to happen like he sets them up like they're being set up on purpose and they're saying okay so you're going to load 300 pounds in the in the trunk and I'm going to drive through here and they're going to they're going to they're going to arrest me yes and then it'll take a couple months for you to get sentenced to six months for you to get sentenced and then you'll get five years and then we already got sure a lawyer that'll show up make sure you're going to get five years you're only got the you only got the maximum amount to get five you can't get more than five years and you don't have any priors no priors you're going so anyway this guy had done the same type of thing and he was going to a he was at a low already

and he was going to a camp he had photos of him in mexico where he had to do like so many years ago he had done like two or three years in Mexico it was insane the photos he had they were allowing him 10 days a month you can have your family come and stay with you in the prison they had a special spot America yeah it was it was insane oh plus you understand that so many days a month you could have other people come at like he literally had prostitutes prostitutes come in and they're staying the night like they're walking them to the cell stay in the night he's drinking he's drinking cores and and he's got America has the

if you talk to anyone that's been abroad America has the most harshest penal system ever of all of the world yeah it would Russia or Russia might be no no because I met

somebody in jail in Russia well I've met some guys that trust me there's not in the world but there's three or four there's probably let's say there's five or six other countries that are really rough but rough meaning so the conditions are the Mexico conditions are horrible right it's like a city I understand they're horrible but in some ways they're horrible but if you have money yeah the freedom is but in some so in some ways it's like what are you talking about you're letting

people bring them food and yeah they're allowed to bring so much food they're allowed to bring so much they're allowed to come see them and stay in the cell with them for three days straight they're allowed it's like that's insane and then of course but if you're You're poor and you go to Mexico, it's horrendous and you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, so it's, you're, you're, you're, so. So, but I was going to say when we're back to the scam, sorry. Well, I was, I only had two. I didn't know if you. Oh, listen, the scams that I, I, I admire are like, you know, I, I do, um, I do. this is horror if you remove the victims you know I do admire like like Ponzi schemes guys who do Ponzi schemes which is really it's just they're just blatant liars you know but the if you were to set up a Ponzi scheme that here's what bothers me about Ponzi schemes is that most

Ponzi schemes and I don't mean most I mean like 99% of them right weren't set up as a scam. Like they were set up as a legitimate business that very quickly goes bad. Sometimes they go do great for six years, 10 years. Sometimes guys set them up and a year and a half later they're like, wow, man, like I'm not good at this. And, you know, where they set it up as a legitimate, let's say, I'm going to, you know, of course the investors always get in trouble. Like it's a hedge fund. They make a couple of bad, they have a bad quarter. Then they lie about it. They, oh, I'll make it up next quarter. Then they have another bad quarter. And they have another bad quarter right they lie about it they have another bad quarter they lie about it then

maybe they have a good quarter but it's nowhere near good enough to recoup the losses they've had then they have another bad quarter and they're just continuing to tell everybody they're doing well and they just keep borrowing and borrowing and before you know it's like so you know how off are you well um you know i've lost five million dollars you know i'm supposed to have 50 million in you know the coffers and you know and i don't you know i'm paying out this much money because i've lost this much money but i told people that i made 11 million dollars so wow so you're off by by 15 million dollars is that yeah um you know it's and then it just keeps it spirals out of control and then they just try and maintain it as long as possible so you know if you remove the

fact that the people that they're typically taking the money from are just regular people you know, the ability to do that and set it up and maintain it for a long period of time is, is amazing to me. You know, that's, that to me is, is, well, what scheme are you thinking about? Because, you know, like, Madoff comes to mind. Madoff does, what bothers me about Madoff is, you know, like, he did it in his name. Like, he was just, he's just an idiot. Like, well, he didn't, like you said, he didn't start.

off right take money you know um like give an example um the like a couple of the the ponzi schemes where the guys the i can show you how to do mortgages you know like you know i'm talking about all those people that go take buy my system oh yeah how to um buy houses i'll help you buy houses or i'll put the down but you find the house grant cardones type yes him yeah you know those Those type of Ponzi schemes. Now, those were Ponzi schemes because... Well, Greg Cardone's not a Ponzi scheme. Like, I thought you were talking about two different things.

Like, he's not running a Ponzi. Well, he may be. I don't know. Well, there's one that was a Ponzi scheme. I've seen those people get arrested, all of them. Like, and I never really understood what they did wrong, but they said it was a Ponzi scheme. And I get... You know, a lot of times, they typical...

Here's the thing I've noticed, too. Like, I've talked to a lot of guy, this guy, Red Bull, they said he ran a Ponzi scheme. It was a business opportunity scheme But they're actually They would like It's like people know what a Ponzi scheme is So a lot of times the newspapers simplify it Right does that make sense?

Yes So yeah I hear what you're saying You know You know really there's so many schemes that I'm just I'm not impressed by As much as I'm just disappointed by It's like you had something

That was legitimate And you ruined it Because you didn't do this one thing you know or right um i i i always thought that it really this was like a legit like i said it was a legit i don't know the guy was like he basically was giving people a credit card so it was like hey you give me fifty nine dollars right and i'll give you a a credit card worth three hundred dollars and i'll report to the credit bureau so it's a way to help clean up your credit right And then he gives you a catalog that you can buy from.

Well, everything in the catalog is jacked up. You know, it's all like this is stuff he's getting from China for $15, and he's charging, you know, $150, $200. So everything you can buy is really just, it's horrible. Like you buy one thing and he's not out of any money because he took in $50. It cost him $15. Even if you never make a payment, then it doesn't matter. He's not out of any money at all.

And if you do make the payment, well, that's great because eventually he gets, the $200 back. The point is, there was a guy in Coleman who had done that. And it was kind of like a business opportunity thing that he had just kind of set up.

Right. The problem was, he said, you know, I set it up, we started running with it, started doing well, started hiring people,

people are calling, we're calling, we're getting people in, we're doing, we're doing great numbers. He said, but then I turned around and he went to,

like, Equifax and said, how much for me to record this, every month and it was too much right they wanted

I don't remember the number is let's say they wanted like oh it's like $20 a person he was like that's insane and then they said well you don't have enough if you have this many people like you have a thousand people then we drop it from 20 down to this much

if you dollars per month per month then they were like if you do this many if you have over 10,000 people then we drop it down to it's $8 like you have to have whatever it was It was an outrageous amount of number for it to get down to where it was almost nothing, right? Whereas cents, which is where someone like Bank of America is.

Like, it cost them almost nothing to report. Right. But he wasn't there. So he figured, okay, that's fine. At the rate we're going, we'll be over the thousand. It'll cost $8 or whatever it was. I forget the number. And he said, but, you know, but by the time we got to the thousand, like, nobody was complaining.

You know, he said, like, nobody, like, even people that called and said, hey, it hasn't shown up yet. we were like, well, yeah, you have to make a few payments before I said, trust me, we were, it's right, he's like, he said, and a lot of people would just stop paying. So it's like, they don't say anything at all. They don't want it to show up. Right. And he said, so six months, a year went by. Now he's just telling, he's just, just telling people, oh, we're reporting. Where are you pulling from? Where are you? Like they just, oh, yeah. Then, and I was like, down the downward spiral. Right. But at this point, you could pay. Like, I know, I forget how many millions he ended up making. five, six million. I mean, he was just tons. And he's dumping money into it. He's like, you know, advertising, paying this. It's like, but you're making millions. Yes.

You're telling me you made, if I had a little scheme that I was running that was making me two million dollars. And for me to make it legit, I have to spend a million. Yeah. Even if I had just a million out of my two. Half. I'll spend the two, the million to keep a million. Yes.

Yeah, he wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it. So within a year or two, it catches up with them. A savage lifestyle. Just a jerk off. You know, and then he gets arrested. And then, of course, they go in front. He's got hundreds.

No, I'm sorry. Thousands and thousands of victims. So what he thought was, okay, it's a few million dollars. I'll do a couple years. Ended up being ridiculous. It was like six to eight years or something because he had so many victims. Yeah. Because do you remember that the federal sentencing guidelines, like, if I have zero to 10.

They changed it. They changed it now. But when I got sentenced, yeah, zero to, what I'm saying is, was it, no, it's five. It was five, wasn't it? No, it was more than 10. Right. No, it goes up in increments. Well, yeah, 10 and 50.

Right. And then it goes up again. It goes of like 150, 250, and over 500, something like that. Like, it keeps going. Oh, wow. When I got sentenced, it was more than 10, then it was more than 50. I think it was up to 250, up to 250 or more. They changed it.

They changed it for real. I got slam. Well, so what happened with him was. Let me, let me put it this way. Let's say I stole a million dollars from two people. Like, I sold a million from you and a million from you. I don't get an enhancement for that. Like, I don't get an enhancement for the victims.

But if I stole, you know, $20 from 50 people, I get this massive enhancement. It's like, wait a second. I stole next to nothing from these. people 20 bucks a pop that's nothing that's not going to change their life right these guys wiped someone out and they're like I know but they have more victims it's 20 dollars like even if it and it's less money yeah but you have more victims yeah but that's not like their their logic is skewed but that makes sense to me if if because chances are the 20 bucks are from poor people and you wipe out rich people.

So if it was $900,000 from an old retired woman. Yeah, you're right. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't balance. They were trying to change that. There was like an amendment that, that, I forget, FAM had put up or somebody, they were trying to, you know, they never do change them. But they were like, when I was, you know, we were getting these letters like, hey, we're put this is going up.

They're going to change this and this and like none of it passed. The problem with the feds is, it's, none of it's retroactive. Yeah, even if it does, it be new people. people, which, which you want to kind of say, you know, like, okay, so I already stole that money. You know, you don't make anything retroactive. Why? Why have to pay those freaking people that already, already still? So you're like, oh, well, this is wrong. We'll change it. But we're not going to let the people who got screwed by it. We're not going to unscrew them. So I got caught with a pound of marijuana today. And I got a year. Right. This guy got caught with two pounds

on Tuesday and he gets nothing. Right. Because now it's not illegal. Yeah, but when you did it, it was illegal. Yes, but it's now not. Right. I get it. Can we let me, can we make it that retroactive and let me out?

No. Absolutely not. No, you're a criminal. He didn't get it from a pharmacy either. I know, but it's, he got it from the same guy I got it from, you know. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.

So, yeah, they never made any of those victim changes, retroactive but like for me the the Ponzi scheme I agree I think it's someone losing control of a specific situation like all the all the infamous all the famous ones that I know about yeah it's just kind of like you get off the handle do you remember and I'm going to say this completely wrong where it's not even going to be probably valid I probably shouldn't even try it but there was one guy that was offering a pill with it was supposed to make your penis large of course of course i do and he goes hi meet yeah of course dick yeah and he would do that it was so yeah you know he got yeah he got busted yes because like i'm going what kind of like

when i saw that like i immediately i'm in jail i immediately ran to the law library to look that up because i'm like what ponsie scheme could he have pulled off wasn't a pausie scheme yes it was no because oh it was dishonest it was a ponsie scheme because you couldn't cancel it right It was just this. That's not a Ponzi scheme. You know what a Ponzi scheme is? It's Ponzi scheme is when you're giving me money where you're taking from new victims to pay old victims off. And it eventually coll- Yeah.

You're serious? You're killing me. A Ponzi scheme is where you give me $100,000 and I say you're making 20% a year. And you go, okay. But really, I just spent your money on a Lamborghini, you know, and a new house for me. And then when you say, hey, Matt, I need to get $100,000 of that back. back. I say, oh, okay, Connor, give me $100,000. I'll make you 20% a year. And you go, okay, you give it to me and I give you the $100,000 or $20,000, whatever your proceeds are.

I'm taking from, so anytime you pull it out, pull out, I'm giving you money that I'm taking from Mary Shelley, from Connor, from Jess, from, so other people are paying in. And I'm anybody who says, hey, I'm not using it for what you're supposed to use it for. Right, right. So anytime somebody said, you say, hey, I give you $100,000. And it's, in five years, it's now worth 300,000. I say, oh, I got it. Here's your 300,000, but I just took their money to pay you. And when he asked for his money, I'm taken from Bob and Jim and Bill to pay him. And so what happens is it's okay. It functions okay if more people pay in all the time. That's what Social Security is. Social Security is people, it's a legal Ponzi scheme. Yes.

Because they're pulling it from everybody's check to pay out people that had paid in originally. Yes. insolvent but at some point meat dick and Jane yes that guy yeah what was so so what

you know what I know this whole scam well you know what it was you have that oh go ahead you tell it okay so here's what he was saying what they were saying

was well it's a money back guarantee like you pay for it if it doesn't work we'll give you your money back and it didn't work no no well of course it doesn't work

but his whole thing was when people said I want my man I paid 500 bucks I want my $500 back it's been six months I've been taking this pill, I'm out of pills, and nothing ever happened. My Johnson did not get bigger, which you promised.

Right. And he said, okay, well, all we need is a letter from your doctor, showing that prior to you taking the pills, you were this size, and now you're still the same size. And the pills did not help you. So just get us a letter from your doctor. You can prove it. We'll give you the money back. Who the hell? Like, I didn't, if you read the fine print, we have to have proof.

So, well, I'm sorry, but I didn't go to my doctor and get him to measure my junk before and after. So they're like, well, I'm sorry then. How do we know it didn't work? Look how small my junk is. Exactly. So you imagine people are taking pictures. Here's your money back. Look at this.

Some people are like, well, here's your money back. Does this look like my wife is smiling the way that chick on the commercial? Right. Right. Yeah. So as a result of that, they ended up. So it was unfair, you know, business practices. It was, it was false advertising.

It was, we got to look that up because how would that be even a federal case? Just, uh, because he's doing it across state lines. He's doing it all over. Ain't, you know, still in from thousands and thousands of, you know, little penis men, which needs to be protected. Which is embarrassing itself, you know, I see that all lined up in court. Yeah. I still got nothing.

Yeah. It's upsetting. I wish, what is that? What is the name? What was the name of? the of the scam, right? I think so bad, my phone's been going off. Scam involving making your penis big with a pill.

Find smiling Bob loses his fortune and his freedom. And news host John London has more on the male enhancement pill scam in this story. It's new tonight at 530. Hi, John. Hussarie, he was blinded by his own arrogance and greed. That is the bottom line tonight from a federal judge who hit Steve Worshack with a 25-year prison sentence and a $500 million fine. If he's still in. Smiling Bob bumped up against the face of federal justice today in a case about greed.

That's how Judge Arthur Spiegel puts it. He's giving Steve Worshack 30 days to get his affairs in order before heading for 20-plus years of federal prison. This was the perfect storm of consumer fraud. You had a group of consumers that wouldn't want to come forward and say that they'd been ripped off. Warshak started Berkeley Nutraceuticals, which was rated on suspicion of massive fraud. Federal investigators say consumers were ripped off, $100 million worth of ripping by way of those enzyme ads. That promised greater sexual satisfaction. According to the court, it delivered deception instead.

Judge Spiegel telling Worshack, he prayed on the sexual inadequacies and vulnerabilities of consumers. so as to keep massive amounts of money generated by fraud. Attorney Jim O'Reilly is using this case as Exhibit A for his new book, Corporate Criminal Sentencing. As we spoke, the viability of the entire company rested on the size of the federal fine upstairs. Managements all the time are making decisions that are bet the company decisions. He happened to bet on consumer fraud. He didn't get away with it. Warshak's 75-year-old mother got a two-year sentence. Other defendants faced the music tomorrow.

And late today, the Berkeley Corporation was fined $15 million, those running that have three months to pay it. It is not known tonight if they'll sell or even if they'll be able to continue to offer it. This ain't no result. I'm a newsroom found. News found. I'll tell you when I get home out. $100 million fraud. And he did nine years?

Nine years. Could you get somebody to do it for, could you get somebody to do the time for? Mine was, uh, my fraud was $100,000. I know. And I got 16 and a half. And my judge feels like that just simply wasn't enough. But it wasn't, was it? No, it wasn't enough.

And on top of that, you had an extensive criminal history. Yes. My lawyer. Did you see that look? My lawyer called me a consummate, consummate criminal. I had to look that up. Consumant criminal. Yes.

When I read that in the transcript, I'm like, what the heck is that consummate mean? Did you go, stop? It means perfect. Nice. I like it. I'll never forget that. I'm reading it in a transcript. Mr. Allen is a consummate criminal.

Did you say, Your Honor, if I was consummate, would we even be having this time? If I was a perfect criminal, we wouldn't even know each other. Certainly wouldn't have been in front of you all these times. over and over like at this point what's his first name my yeah who my judge yeah um james like at this point you basically walk in and go jimmy what's going on what have you been up to you know what i've been up to no that's why we're here can't stand that let's not go there all right so oh my god do you have any other uh schemes that you admire besides the uh little dick and guy um um

You know, there's a rapper named Little Dicky. Really? Yes. There's a rapper or there's a, there's a guy named. He's got a TV show now, doesn't he? Yeah. There's a black Zach guy too. Black Zach.

Have you ever punched in your thing? Like this is the first thing that comes up. Oh, yeah. Then this comes up. Then you come up. But the first guy is way better. mix YouTube Have you listened to the song

No Why what is it Is it one song I mean he's got 18 views Have you listened to it? Yes It's horrible It's Xandadu quality

You've already got more Views than him Yes Yeah I want to copy him Oh wow Oh wow. Oh, wow. Check out the other blackzag, everybody.

Oh, it's bad. Oh, it's horrible. I told you that. Look at the booty on that chick. Look. You see it's got the glasses? Yeah. I can't dance.

Oh. It, it, look. Look at him. Look at him. Come on. put this up get him some view get him some subscribers we need he had some subscriber yeah like Zach hold on Connor it's actually not bad that why do you think that's bad are you serious play

that thing I don't think it's bad at all It's just good as any of the rap music I've heard. He's got a whole, he loves it too. He loves what he's doing. Here it comes. Dude, it's horrible. I'm like, what is this? No way.

I hope this doesn't get copyrighted. Oh, yeah, he takes it. How many songs? He only has one song or does he have multiple songs. No, he's got a, look, he's, look. So he's got, oh, no, oh, he's got, look at it. Tell him to check out my channel. We should, you should come.

back to Matt, like, thank you very much for subscribe. That's how you should close it out. The other Black Zach. Speaking of illegal, speaking of schemes, what about the other Black Zach? The guys whose name I stole. Listen, I knew a guy

in Coleman that was a concert promoter that promoted several concerts. Right. And then, and people paid, whatever, a couple hundred bucks, like, I mean, radio stations, everything. And he was Promoting concerts for people that weren't, like, these are artists that are like, well, when am I going to be in Michigan?

What's going on? Like, he'd take them, and they put the money, they'd send in their money, and then they, the promoter would take the money, and then they would come out and say, hey, it's been postponed, postpone. Like, on the tickets, it says, like, hey, if there's, you know, weather and this and that would postponements, you'll understand. And he kept, he would postpone it like 60 days, then another 90, then another 30, then 60, and then they just drop away. They just fade out.

And he kept your money. Right. Kept your money. By that way, your money's way gone. Yeah. So he, but he did a whole thing. It eventually caught up with it. He was in Coleman with us.

And when I got out, he, listen to this. I always forget about this. This is hilarious. So when I first got to that, this is a whole sidebar thing. So when I first got to the halfway house, do you remember how, how, which halfway house did you go to? Tampa. The same one you did.

Okay. So, you did. You know, they were tricked, right? Like, they were like, like, they're checking you. You come in, and then they do the- Not thoroughly, but yeah, rule-wise, yes. Rule-wise, yes. What I'm saying is when, when, so, for instance,

people couldn't just show up. And, like, for instance, and they told you give, you get the little speech when you got there. Yes. Like, if you have, don't, friends come over, they have to be, you have to tell them, they have to sign in, they have to this. Like, don't have somebody come meet you in the parking lot.

right like that's an issue like if they saw you they'd violate you like hey some guy just came by they'd search you like what's going on you stood out there and talked to that guy for 20 minutes and you know that sort of thing you know hey that that's a illegal this whatever stand there we're calling like that they they'd violate you go spend 30 days in the county jail so they to me they were strict like they had made you clean all the time if you didn't have a job you're cleaning all the time like they made you want to get out of that halfway house as quick as possible so and I was there for seven months you know you were there you were a job Yeah, I know, but I'm saying, you, you were on home, you got on ankle monitor right away.

You were out right away. 30 days, 30 days. I was there seven months. So, were you in there? The whole seven months. You never got home confinement? You didn't have a home. I can't stay with my mom.

Oh, my God. Seven months? You and Jess, right? No, Jess got out within 60, 90 days. She was out. Oh, okay. She had her dad's. Oh, okay.

And the only reason that took so long was like he had. to get like a landline like you didn't have a landline there's he's in my act he's got a cell phone who the hell has a landline right um so anyway the point is is that when i got there i had been there two weeks i get there i'm keeping my head down i'm just doing what i have to do i get there and um probably within a week guys are walking around one day all of a sudden within like a day or so i notice guys are walking around looking at me looking at me and then one day i walk by a guy sitting on the couches remember the couches in the middle in the day room guys watching he's watching my this is when my american greed was on hulu he's watching it on hulu as i walk by and i hear

the whole and i'm like i look over and he's sitting there watching i look he looks up he is he just smiles he was watching i was like you know i was like oh man so i then i walk and a count counselor, my counselor, actually he was Jess's counselor, this black guy. He walks by and looks at me, he goes, Cox, saw you on TV last night and I went on, on what? And he goes, he said, on American greed. I was like, oh, man, he was saying, yeah, yeah, you need to hold your head low. Like he was like, give me, he was laughing about it. Like they were, but I said, who else has seen it? And he goes, oh, we've all seen it by now. Everybody, like all the staff member had seen it. So that had just happened and now the inmates are starting to watch it. Right. And I'm not

saying anything. I'm just trying to go to working back, right? Like I just started my job. So then one day I'm sitting there on the sitting outside on the, uh, or not outside, I'm sorry, sitting on one of the couches in the day room, playing on my phone or trying to figure it out. And a guy comes up to me, this guy that was in Coleman with goes up, he says, hey, Cox, you got to come outside real quick. The guy outside wants to talk to you. And I went, what? What? He goes, there's a guy outside wants to talk to you. And I went, who? Tell him to come in.

He was not. He's in a car. He needs to talk to you. And he goes, you need to come outside. And I went, all right, all right. So I get up. I was like, the fuck's going on. I don't know anybody.

Nobody, the only people that know I'm even here is like Trion and I'm working for him. Like, who stops? And nobody's stopping by the halfway. Who knows where the halfway house is? Right. I walk outside. Remember how everybody used to stand outside and smoke? Yes.

There's like 20. Around the tree. Yeah, exactly. there's 20 guys standing outside smoking like this staring the guy that I told you about the concert promoter is in a white Lamborghini with the the top off his girlfriend is driving the car blonde blue-eyed I walk out and I see him and I walk over and he goes he goes Matt Cox he's come here come here I walk over and I go hey what's going on I barely, I kind of recognized him.

He'd sat through my real estate class a couple times. We'd had lunch a few times. Like, I don't really remember him that much, but he remembered me. He said, hey, man, I'm so-and-so. I was in your real estate class. Do you remember me? And I was like, yeah, man, what's going on? Like, I kind of remembered him.

I was like, yeah, that was like a long time. He goes, yeah, it was a few years ago. I told you I'd look you up. He said, I looked you up every once in while I would go on BOP, and I saw that you were going to be in the halfway house. He said, I knew it said Orlando. you were going to be in Orlando. He says, oh, I checked and sure enough you were here,

I told my girl, we had to go by. He said, man, do you need anything? I said, no, man. I said, I'm not even supposed to be talking to you, bro. I said, like, they got videos. Like, you're going to get me violated. He goes, well, how can I get you talk to you? And I said, man, I said, I work at a gym,

and I told him the name of the gym and this. And I'm sitting there talking to a guy in a Lamborghini in the halfway house parking lot with all these guys smoking cigarettes. Like, what the hell is going on? I go, but honestly, I can't. I said, I work at a gym. It's called, you know, Cultus 24-7 fitness.

Look at it up 24-7 fitness. I'll be there tomorrow. And I turn around and he's, all right, I got you, I got you. And I walked off. Called me like two days later, two, three days later, he called the gym, talked to me, got my phone number, came by the gym, we talked for a while, pulls up in his Lamborghini. Yeah.

I was just like, like, this is not, this is my life. Like, you know what I know? This is insane. You know, I've met a moment. Since I went to prison, like I've met four or five guys that have Lamborghinis. Yeah. You know? I've met two.

Yeah, it's outrageous. Like, I didn't know these people before. Where were these people before? When I had money. You were in a low. Yeah. I'm in a pen and a medium. Yeah, there shouldn't have been no guys with a Lamborghini pins and medium.

That's insane. Those are violent guys. It's none of them. No. One of you introduced me to, which was the guy you said, me to Miami for the one with the liquid oh yeah yeah yeah he pulled

up in his Lamborghini I'm like what the yeah yeah good times and the other one is who does my daughter's hair oh okay so yeah now these are all like prison guys with Lamariganes yeah well no no not all of them well

you know prison prison is the great equalizer you know yeah absolutely because um you Conrad Black was at Coleman Lowe. Yeah. And he's a multi-billionaire. Yeah. Oh, I've met, there have been a few billionaires.

Listen, I've met like three guys. I want to say something. I think, I feel like it's three guys. I know for sure it's, no, it is. I think it's three guys that worked at that, worked at NASA. Three guys that worked at NASA that I met that worked at NASA. That were all in there. All of them.

Pictures. I'm not saying, I'm not saying. I'm not saying I don't know if there's a correlation there but the fact that you meet one person in real world that worked at NASA is odd like how often does that happen even if you lived in Florida that's odd to meet three listen the the the military dorm

my buddy Pete said the military dorm out of the entire military dorm there's like 30 32 to 35 guys that don't have charges for pictures out of 150 guys there's what close to 120 that are there for pictures I just saw that

I just saw it in the paper the other day about a raid and with the pictures didn't I show you what I got the message where it comes through like hi my name is such and such I want to talk with you no I get that all the time I get

it's just a random text it's like hey hey John or yeah Sally and you're like, this isn't Sally. Oh, what's your name? Stop it. Stop it. I don't know what you're doing. I don't have time for this foolishness. I wouldn't even, I don't even respond to those. I'm talking, I get a text message

or a messenger request. I told you about that one time and like, hi, I'm 16 and I'm like, oh my God. Right. No, I don't get that far. Like, I have gotten. Well, no, because I'm like, oh, she's pretty. Let me get. You're like, oh, oh! Oh! Slash the stand jump, start jumping on it.

Yeah. I just got a random text just now. Probably coupled with a picture. My name is. No. To me, all that, that's in entrapment. Yeah. Oh, we got to put those out.

Get the hell out of here, man. I read somebody, I read a case where that happened to some. I'm trying to remember what was the circumstance behind that. I remember a case that there was a first time that, like, the guy, because supposedly in the federal system entrapment is not a defense like they don't want they don't allow you to say i was entrapped i was in trap simply because that's what they're doing because that's what they're doing like i hate it when you use what they're doing against them um so so this is a guy that owned a piece of a piece of um a federal park right like a national park and the park wanted to buy his

land and he for 20 years or something he refused to sell it and suddenly some new park administrators had come on board and they were talking about expanding the park and they were like well this is the park that we want and they were trying to like say we're going to take it and he was saying it you don't have to have it like you can't use eminent domain to take my property it doesn't benefit the public enough that you need it you've already got 400,000 acres of you know of land like it's just stupid and he wouldn't sell it and so suddenly he started getting these these emails from for a website for pictures and he he you know um he deleted it and then it came again two days later deleted it then another one came and deleted it then

another one came and every day we're talking about every day four or five a day of these emails saying to visit the website very specific saying what it was this went on for 90 days this guy this guy like it was something like close to a thousand times deleted it finally one day he clicked on it he said i he said i didn't know how to make it stop i'd hit the note stop to unsubscribe i this and they showed they proved it he'd done all this one day he finally clicked on it he clicked on it and it's something basically he said I flipped through some pictures you know he said very quickly maybe five or ten pictures he said got off the website click the unsubscribe and deleted it thinking maybe that will work like it was kind of it was something along those lines he's trying

to finalize it like get rid of this there was like a 60 minutes about this only reason I know it it was like 60 minutes 60 minutes or 20 21 of those and so and I could be botching the story slightly but what ended up happening was he gets arrested like three days later they indict him and come and arrest him and during the negotiations they're telling him like hey look like you to plead guilty um you know like they're trying to get his property they're trying to use seizure to take his property he's saying what are you talking about like seize what do with this and i don't even know know what happened here like i was trying to get rid of these things so he goes to trial even those lawyers saying you're done you're done people have no they're not going to look past the that you clicked on it he goes to trial and he wins which was insane because he did click on it and he did look at the images and that's all the law says but it was enough that his lawyer had put together enough of a defense to say it's outrageous how many times they they hammered him and bombarded him with this and so he was able to win an entrapment style claim right and he ended up winning but it was it was and they showed also that they were that the FBI was

targeting him very specifically like yeah they were they were trying to get him hemmed up so that they could get a hold of his land somehow get some leverage now they were never able to get a specific person or anything but it was pretty clear and that he ended up winning it good right but you know like you said like but surprise he didn't end up going to prison anyway right but that almost never happens so I'm saying like the idea that he could win that defense it almost never happened never so that's an example that I tell you another time

a guy was buying a guy I knew a guy that and this was pretty well documented to this is like totally off the subject but anybody watching this that's watching this far would probably be interested the point is that this guy had he was buying credit card information

and the guy said hey what about getting some pictures I think we all know what kind of pictures we're problem about and the guy said hey man I sell I sell pictures I sell videos I have pictures of this and he was like oh bro I'm not interested in that I'm trying to get you know you advertised on this website that you had credit card information like that's who he thought he was contacting right and it somehow or another he it wasn't that like they were they were like well

we don't have that he ended up getting an FBI agent that was getting this up doing that you know and trap trying to get people to be interested in this other thing so he ends up saying no no no no, no. And finally the guy says, I have bootleg videos of new movies and I have the credit card information you want. So he says, okay. So he says, well, the bootleg videos were just like

bootleg videos from movies. So he dropped the other thing. And then they sent, he bought it. They sent it to him. He gets it. In the information they had put They had put like JPEGs of photographs of young people. They indict him, arrest him, they come and arrest him, grab his computer, he's got the images on there. They showed that he did look at them for a few seconds apiece, but in his mind he said, did I look at them? Yes.

He said, I didn't know what they were because I told him over and over again I wasn't interested in that. he did take a plea by the way he ended up taking a plea because he said i was so my lawyer was like you're so screwed because the law says if you simply have possession you're already guilty he's they go and you did have possession and you did look at the pictures and you looked at them too long like if you look at them for more than like four seconds or something or six seconds there's a length of time for you to look at it realize what you're looking at is wrong and delete it he looked at it for longer and then

and he didn't delete them they were like so it's still on your computer you didn't try and delete them you're guilty so he just took a plea he got like I don't know what it was five years six years whatever it was for just a few yeah let's see see like and people say like well what are you guys you get so freaked out if somebody's

trying to send you a message or hell he'd talk to Bozac Bozac's like he's like anybody that tries to contact me that I think is even remotely too young I delete it's like boom no no no they sneak up on you I have a um a buddy of my old celly that on this Facebook page he sent me a couple of them I'm like what what is this oh this my girlfriend I'm like hey don't send me anymore yeah anybody that looks yes even

remotely yes and what's so funny too is like you could be 25 years old and and send me a picture 25 year olds to me look like they're 12 you know like every the older you get the younger else looks. So some girl said, oh, I'm 25. I'd be like, I just, this chick looks like she's 12 years old. You know? So, yeah, I could imagine me. It's because I hear these horror stories, horror stories. Well, you, like, I wasn't around them to, though. Once I was around were, um, probably success. They weren't just picture watchers. No, they're, they're, they're, they're, uh, didlers. We had the, we had the handlers on the roof, hands on and hands off. Yeah. You know that dude, you were talking to? Yeah. You know he's hands on, right?

Oh, man, are you serious? No, no hands-on would be there at all. Oh, at your place. At your place? No, at the low? At the low. Yeah, they were there. The hands-on?

Yeah. Yeah, these are guys like brought somebody across state lines. I told you, didn't I ever tell you about it? But it couldn't have been a full rape. No, this is a low. Right. That's what I'm saying. Oh, I don't know about the full.

This is somebody who made the attempt or was actually showed up someplace. Right. The ones that I saw were absolutely. hands-on. Oh, yeah. Well, listen, there was a guy in Germany who flew from Germany to the United States, thinking he was meeting like a 14-year-old boy or something, flew all the way there. And it's legal in Germany, by the way. Like, the age of consent was like 14. The boy was 14. He flies all the way over here, gets arrested and says, hey, I haven't done anything wrong. I was in my country. They said, you flew to the United States. He then goes to the German consulate and tries to get help. They wouldn't lift a finger for him. He's like, it's not illegal in Germany. Like, I, and I didn't do it. And the other thing is in Germany, like, you didn't do anything. To him, it's like, I just showed up.

I didn't do it. In Germany, you would have to have done something. They were like, nope, 25 years. America, when America tells them, like, like, we're keeping this one, you're, the consulate's kind of like, oh, well, there's nothing we can do. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. I don't, anyway.

I mean, not that he's not a weirdo. Is he a weirdo? I mean, you know, you get to a point where it's like everybody's a weirdo. Everybody I met was just like odd. You know, it's like everybody, you just meet people. You know, it was so, I hate to say that I would, you know, started to try and figure out what people's charges were. Like I, you know, and they would lie. You know, they always use fraud.

They always say, what are you here for fraud? Man, you mother. Why can't you say something you could pull off? Because, you know, very quickly, it's like, oh, what kind of fraud? Credit card fraud You were charged with credit card fraud Yes Charbers Chargers

They actually said credit card fraud Yeah it was credit card fraud Because there's no federal charge For credit card fraud So it had to be access device fraud It had to be like Like if you're going to lie About my field of expertise

Learn something Research That's right Like you can't say like You know For all I was receiving Cannabis in the mail

Say that you don't have to know anything well you know i will give them credit like if they're at the low and they're saying fraud that's actually um security level appropriate because most of time drugs are medium and up right there were some guys that well guys would work their way down from the medium right to the low but yeah i'm putting for drugs they probably feel like they get called out for drugs too fast anyway yeah well i don't think they it listen it doesn't matter you talk to these guys for for 10 minutes and anyways after 10 minutes you're just like no I don't mean even if you talk to talk like I'm sorry bro I don't believe you you're not a drug

you're not good for that yeah you don't know what you're talking about well I got all the lingo stop it I've been watching them yeah get out of here yeah you can sorry you bro I'm it's all I think about the ones that you envy is that oh listen I hear scam are we recording okay so I hear scams all the time where I see it, I read a little article or somebody tells me about their scam or I'll see something on the news and it's just like, oh man, like if they just did, if they didn't, the problem with most people is you read this scam and you're like, that's a good scam, like what went wrong? Like he did it in his own name. Or he did it in his sister's name or his one of his

buddies like, what are you doing? And or and then it breaks down where you're like, why didn't they just open a bank account in somebody else's name or in a fake person's name or in a homeless person or whatever's name and dump the money in there and remove it and you're like well and then I always have to remind myself like bro not everybody and this is going to sound arrogant has your skill set like not everybody can figure out how to get a driver's license in somebody else's name or an ID whatever not everybody's multifaceted right where they like they just have a scam and they like a pit bull and lock on it right they they're you're like, I could probably make, I could probably make $10,000, $20,000 on this, not realizing, okay, you could make $20,000.

Yes. But three months from now, you're in front of a judge, or you're just getting handcuffed and you're waiting to be in front of a judge. Yeah. And then you do six months or a year, and now you're on your probation. And then you start looking back on it, you go, Jesus, God Almighty, for 30 grand or 20 grand. I just put a year in jail. I just put a year in jail. I lost all my shit.

People never realized, like, going to jail, who gives a shit? I don't give a shit. I'll go to jail for fucking six months. If I can come back where I left off. The problem is you're coming back. You've lost everything. And what's even worse is that the people you know are the ones that took it. Yes.

Like nobody came in and boxed up my shit and stuck in the storage unit. Even in their garage. It's pilfered. You get absolutely robbed. Everyone's taking everything. You see somebody two years later and you're like, hey, Jimmy, what? Is that my shirt? Maybe.

I got it from Goodwill. Oh, so.