Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - I'M OFFICIALLY FREE!!! (How I Survived a 26 Year Prison Sentence)

Episode Date: August 25, 2024

Get 50% sitewide for a limited time. Just visit GhostBed.com/cox and use code COX at checkout. I'M OFFICIALLY FREE!!! (How I Survived a 26 Year Prison Sentence)

You give a non-violent white-collar criminal, 26 years you remember his name. And I was under the impression he was coming back to this court to get his sentence reduced. What is going on? As I walk in and they're uncuffing me, I look up and everybody is staring at me. And there's a guy that's maybe 20 feet and he's like, bro, Cox, I'm so sorry, bro. This is my letter from my probation officer. Dear Mr. Cox, on July 18th, 2024, your supervision officially terminated with our office. As of that date, you have no further obligations to this office.

So that means that officially, I'm off probation. Yes. So I've completed a 26-year-and-four-month prison sentence of which... five years. Plus five years supervision. And I thought about this the other day, which is one of my buddy Bozziak's favorite things to say. This is the first probation that I've ever officially completed. He loves to say I've never officially completed a probation.

But I actually, because even when I didn't realize that until when I got this and I was like, you know what? I never have completed a supervision either. I was on supervised vision before and I took off on the run. So, but yeah, this is the first time I've ever officially completed a supervision. Well, that's a big deal. So, like, what I've been dying, the reason why I bugged you about this is because of the contrast. You've completed your sentence.

How does it feel to have complete? Completed it. I wasn't doing anything wrong. So I wasn't like, it's not like I was, although the last, totally the last month or so, I felt anxious only because, only because I've heard such. horror stories about guys like getting violated just by accident, you know, like they get a new, they get a new PO and suddenly they get a call to come in and they've been violated. And they're like, why? They're like, oh, because we, the new PO checked your tracking device. And you've been going to the gym and you've been going to heat to the spa and you've been going to the golf course. And he's,

and then it's like, my old probation officer, I told him, my son works at the golf course and I go there four or five times a day, I go there, drop him off, and then I drive to work. You can see that. Right. And then you can see that I go, the spa isn't a spa. It's a work. It's a gym. I go there for about an hour every day.

Right. Like, and they're like, well, oh, well, I guess we should have called first. And it doesn't matter. You end up going to fucking jail and take some time to, or you have to go back to the halfway house or, you know, there's tons of them. What was it, um, uh, uh, Dan Wise was in a halfway house and went and put quarter, quarters into a machine to get like potato chips and it wouldn't do the potato chips wouldn't give it to him and he looked and he saw that the the plastic had been pushed in and he thought and he

just paid and he went fuck so he reached his hand in and just grabbed the potato chips oh wow well they saw him well they saw him but they throw him into jail by the time his lawyer comes to talk to him he explains what happened I didn't break the machine I didn't do any of that I didn't steal from and I paid for it still took them like six weeks to go back and check the tape they check the tape They go, oh, the guy before you broke the plastic. And they put it on him. And he broke the plastic. And then we did see you came by five minutes later.

We did see you put the money in. And we did, but it didn't work because it had been jammed or whatever because of the plastic. And we saw you reaching. Yeah, my bad. And it still took it on the month to get him out. So he spent three months in fucking in jail for something I didn't do. Like they can come up with some stupid shit. Maybe they just decide, they check and they go, you know what?

We noticed that you didn't fill out your. monthly report four months ago. Yeah, but I called my probation officer, and I told her, I don't know why I didn't do it. And she said, oh, no, no, but you did fill out the other page and you mailed it to him and I got it. So it's fine. But the next one doesn't know that. Or suddenly the supervisor is reviewing your shit to say, oh, it's his end of, end of probation release. Well, we have to review it.

Oh, by the way, he didn't fill this one month out. You know what? Violate him. Like, they could be that. Like, oh, yeah, he's a dick. Okay, well, you said it was fine. like so you thought that possibility might happen well sure what if you get pulled over and they search the car and they the person you're driving with has a weapon and you're like oh that's his

weapon and he's like oh that's not my weapon right that's but that's immediate and and you're not going to ride with someone that even you poses that possibility i mean you would hope right you don't you know yeah i i agree but man i i you know you thought you thought something was going to happen I just thought it was a possibility. I thought, boy, you are so close, so close. But that, all right, so you survived all that. Yeah, yeah. And you made it.

I don't wonder, like, you know what? You know what's got me upset and jealous? Is that you are not like, I feel relieved. All right, so let me, let me, let's you that I'm not ecstatic about it. You're not ecstatic about it. You want to like me to go get a cake or something. Yes. Well, let me, let me try this.

Let me try this. Can you go back in your mind? and re or describe the feeling you have before you get your sentence. Like, you're in the back. You don't know how much time you're going to get and they're about to come get you. No, I didn't know how much time. I know. You know what you scored out to.

I scored out to, well, first my PSI said 32 years to life. Right. But we'd already gotten the U.S. to agree that I didn't know 9.5 million. They lowered it to six. And then they dropped one or two other charges. So I was at 26 years and four months. I knew that's what my, my PSI was roughly, but they were going to suggest 26 years and four months.

Right. And you've done a lot of work to help them out to possibly get that lowered. Right, but I'd already been told they're not giving me that. They already told me that the night before. I already knew that wasn't happening. So you're looking at 26 years roughly. So, and I already knew, but I knew I wasn't going to get that because my lawyer had like three enhancements that did not apply to me.

and she was going to win all those enhancements. Also, you thought it could have been lower. I was supposed to be like basically like 12 years and 10 months, whatever that comes to, right? Like roughly, roughly 13 years. So I knew that's what I was getting. Unfortunately. All right. So before you came out.

She didn't win those. I understand. So you're back in the prior to sentencing. That's what I'm asking. I'm looking at 13 years. So that's what you're thinking. I already did a year and I'm going to get Ardap. So you're going to do, you're going to do 10 years.

That's what you're thinking coming out. Like, okay. I'm doing 10. I'm doing 10. And they're going to arrest some of these people, right? And I've already done the date line. Like, they're going to cut my sentence. Might be half.

Might be 50%. I may be out of here in three or four years. So you're feeling yourself. At that point, you're kind of, maybe four. Maybe four. You're thinking three, four years. Yeah. Of course.

They're very good, Zach. They're very good. They're going to, they're going to, these people. They're going to arrest these people. I'm going to get Dateline. I'm going to get some arrest credits. I'm going to come back. I'm going to get my sentence reduced.

It's a fine deal. Be out by 2010. Right. I'm going to get 13 years. And I'm going to get that cut in half down to maybe six, maybe seven or six with ARDAP, halfway house. I'm out of here. I'm out. So do you think in 2011, 2012, you'll be home?

I'm good. No question. Of course. Let's go. Let's go. I got this. And then you go out. It's not good.

And things start coming apart. Yeah, the judge had, obviously the judge had, obviously the judge. had not been told this. The judge had not been told... He wasn't on board. With any of the objections? No. They just started...

She lost every objection. She argued three different of the enhancements. How did you feel her arguments were? Are they strong? They were strong. And the judge literally, you know, I thought the judge was going to rule on the facts. And that's not...

Stop it. You're killing me. That's still funny. I know. Go ahead. Instead, Like, you know, she made the argument. He was like, she's like, well, this is what it says.

This is what he did. Obviously, it is not this enhancement. And he goes, I disagree. I feel like he, you know, I feel like he put these people in, in harm's way. I'm, I've been overruled. And then, you know, she just. I could just imagine. She just, when it was like, she was like, and I remember thinking that,

did that was four levels yeah did five level did five years just get out onto my sentence was that five years like you know you know did he just add a three level enhancement on my sentence you know and and then she made another argument for another enhancement he went yeah no I disagree I think and he whatever it was it was like boom the one I remember was using a charitable institution in so it's it's sorry it's using a charitable institution as like validity right of your crime like so and the example is if the you know the specific example these are examples like you have to meet these examples you can't you're not supposed to be able to go outside the example you fit your example in if it meets this exact example you

can give them the enhancement. Not I can, well, kind of, well, no, if you twist it, if you think about it like this, well, what they meant, no, no, this is what it is. And it was specifically, if you are going out and you are saying that I am the Cancer Society of America, I'm a charitable institution, and I'm going and I'm knocking on the doors of people's houses, and I'm saying, I work for the Cancer Society, and I am asking for donations for the Cancer Society. So if I represent myself as a charitable institution and I am borrowing on behalf of that

or I am asking, I am collecting money on behalf of that, then you get like a two-point enhancement. And they gave me that enhancement. And I said, I've never borrowed on behalf of a charitable institution and or represented. Or represented myself as a charitable institution in order to borrow money. And what they said was, yeah, but you had a badge that said Salvation Army on it. Right? And okay. For the homeless people.

For the homeless people. Right. And they said, so that you were using, you were representing yourself as a chair of law institution. I said, well, first of all, they weren't, I was not getting them to give me money. And all of the entire enhancement is that you're, you're getting money by using the, the credibility of that. Can I ask a question? What?

How did they know you had that badge? Becky told them. I don't think they, I don't think they actually found the bad. I think I threw it out. Becky had told them, and I think I had denied it. Oh my goodness.

Because I think I was like, I don't think so. I said, I told people I was a statistical survey taker. That's all. I said, I don't ever remember saying Salvation Army. But they put down that there was a badge. They said I had a badge,

Salvation Army, and that I don't think they ever found it. But maybe they did. regardless. I don't recall it. It doesn't matter. It specifically, that entire enhancement, there's a, is a whole list of the enhancement. The entire enhancement is based on you getting people to give you money because you're a financial institution. Or you saying, I'm the IRS. That was another one. It was financial. It was a government entity or a charitable institution. And you going and you basically saying, because of the credibility of saying,

hey, you owe $2,000 to the IRS. I'm the IRS. Give me. the money. So it's all about stealing from your victim. It's, yeah, it's representing as right. And it's all money. A trusted organization. I remember that enhancement. So what I did was, I went to people and I said, hey, I'm taking a survey for the Salvation Army. And then I was paying them. Right. Which is the complete opposite. I don't need, first of all, I could have said, hey, I worked for Blue Dog survey surveys. They would have given me the money. They never Nobody gave me the money because I said Salvation Army. Well, it wasn't even money exchanged either.

I agree, but that's two different things. So the enhancers, look, one, I wasn't using the credibility because it was irrelevant. These people were homeless. They don't give a shit. Right. What the carrot was, for them to cooperate, was the $20. Right. So I'm giving you money and I'm stealing your identity.

Now, here's the difference, because the identity that I'm stealing that I'm stealing is, I'm already getting a charge for aggravated identity theft. So it's double. If you said, oh, well, you're stealing something of value. I'm already getting a charge for stealing something of value. I'm getting an extra 24 months added onto my sentence for stealing your identity. So you can't say, well, that's the value. It doesn't matter that it's value.

I'm already being charged for it. You can't charge me twice for it. Okay. But they did. So the judge, you know, the judge said, I remember he goes, uh, he goes, yeah, I disagree that that doesn't, And that that enhancement doesn't apply. He goes, I mean, I feel he tarnished their image. You feel that these homeless people now that don't know,

these people that don't even know they've had their identity stolen, you feel that they now don't trust the Salvation Army? They don't even know. He just felt the image was tarnished. Like, they might look at it and shake their head. I mean, you just say, those two enhancements, that was an extra three years. Like, you start adding, it was like, five. five years, four years, three years.

And it wasn't three years, but it was like 40 months. Oh, right. It's levels. It's like three, four years, depending on how high you're up. Every extra level. So if you have 15, let's say you have 20 levels. And right now 20 levels is 20 years. And then you say, okay, we're going to give you another level.

Well, the next level is, let's say 18 months. Okay, well, and they say, no, no, we're going to add another level on top of that. The next one you think, oh, it's another 18 months. No, no, the next level's 21 months. Yep. And then you say, oh, well, we're going to give you another level on top of that. The next one, you think, well, is the next one 21? No, no, the next one's 24.

Yeah, 24 or 25 or 26. And what about the next one? Well, the next one is the next one 25? No, the next one is 30. Yeah, 30 or 31. You're like, what the fuck is going on? Like, every level, it's more and more months. So they continue to get worse and worse.

Like, the first level you get, it's like three months. And you can get probation. And then the second level is like four months. And then, like, on the low end, the distance apart is very slim. Yeah. But when you get to the higher end, the distance apart, I mean, it goes from... It's years. It gets to what's years.

Like seven, eight years. Yeah. Every additional one could be another two, three, four years. Like, you're like, oh, my God. Like, this one's three extra years. Another level is five extra years. Another one is eight extra years. You're like, what's happening?

Like, it's progressively getting worse. So when he's... So when I remember when he got to that one, when he was like, I feel like he tarnished their image. It was like, this has, there's no way you can justify that. And, you know, my lawyer, so when she sat down and I was like, what's happening? I was like, what's happening? She said, I really thought I was going to win those. And it was just like, I'm going to need more than that.

I'm going to need more than that. You know, and look, the point is, is what I found out later, you know, through my lawyer, when I was going through all the procedures was the judge gave me that sentence because the prosecutor during sentencing completely illegal by the way I mean you're not allowed to do this of course

the the U.S. attorney is telling the judge your honor I know it's a lot of time but Mr. Cox is coming back for a reduction possibly two reductions we have cases in at least two jurisdictions which he's cooperating in so he most likely will be coming back here for two reductions.

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He's like, I know that. He said, what is he doing? Like, he's like, I gave him, here what he said, I gave him 26 years. I know exactly what he said. So what he's actually exactly said was she said, why are you asking him about Mr. Cox? And he said, he said, Millie, he said, I don't remember the name of a lot of the, of the, the inmates or the defendants that I've sentenced. He's, but you give a guy. a white-collar criminal, a non-violent white-collar criminal, 26 years, he is, you remember his name.

He goes, and I was under the impression, he was coming back to this court to get his sentence reduced. He goes, what is going on? And she said, you gave him 26 years. They told him he was going to be brought back to get his sentence reduced. At least once, probably twice. She said, they failed to indict anyone, and they've decided. not to proceed. And she said, and he goes, well, what's he doing about it? And she said, what can he do about it? And he goes, I can't tell you what he can do about it. Because it's, you know, just having

that discussion in chambers isn't even appropriate. And so, what is it, ex parte? Yeah. So, because technically the U.S. attorney should be there for that. The argument back and forth. Yeah, for that conversation. And, and he said, he is, I can't tell you what he can do, what he should do about it. What I'm telling you is he needs to get himself back in front of me. And she said, well, what can he do? He's, I don't know. So in my opinion, he took into account the fact that the U.S. attorney was saying that I was going to be back in front of him at least twice for a reduction. So he didn't really care that he was giving me about the facts. About the facts. He cared that, hey, I'll give him 26 years. I'm a new judge. I've been here six months on the bench. I haven't had

any big trials yet, really. I'm still kind of getting used to things. Matter of fact, they were still building out his courtroom. Each judge gets their own courtroom, by the way. They were still renovating his courtroom. So where I was sentenced and arraigned and everything was this massively ornate courtroom that they used for, like, media cases, like big cases that they want to showcase the federal court. That might have been the reason for the 26. Right. To help Millie, no, Millie's your lawyer. Millie's my lawyer. Help the prosecutor make a dominant state. Like, I got this cocksucker. In the middle of the financial crisis.

Yes. This is almost, this is late 2007 early, not, it's late 2007. So people always say the 2008 financial crisis. Yes. Okay, but you have to understand the entire economy was collapsing during, from 2000, May 2007 onward. So this has been six or eight months of people are losing their houses, people are screaming about Wall Street. The 2008 financial crisis, that's when they, that's when they came out with the TARP Act in 2008. So they always say the 2008 financial crisis, but this has been going

on. So I'm there. I'm the poster boy or mortgage fraud. I'm being sentenced. They slam me for 26 years. It makes everybody feel like, yeah, they're doing something about this. I have nothing to do with a financial crisis. Right. The courtroom was filled with media, filled with them. There's a guy sketching me. That was a show sentencing. Right, right. So, yeah, so I get the 26 years, and he's thinking, okay, I'm going to give him 26 years. It's a bunch of big headline.

It's going to be a bunch of articles. This is going to be good. And then they're going to file a Rule 35 in six months or a year, and I'll reduce his sentence. Right. So he doesn't feel bad. There's something that's fair. Like, he's going, eh, like you probably would have ended up with the 12, but I'm going to give you the 26 and you're going to come back to get the 12. Right.

And he was kind of like, why didn't he ever, what happened? I thought he was coming back to get the 12. Like, I made these bad. rulings, but I'm going to be able to correct it. Now, by the way, him taking into consideration that I'll be back on some reductions, it's completely inappropriate. Of course. You never should have taken that into consideration at all. Not ruling on facts. Right. You're supposed to just rule on what's in front of you right now. Yes. So anyway, you know, in the end, I think he gave me what most likely was the appropriate sentence that began with, you know? The 26 years? No, the 15. Oh.

That ultimately... You're saying you ended up with. I ended up with 15 and that was probably the appropriate sentence that I should have gotten 15 years and I, I cooperated and I should have gotten time off of that. That never happened, but I'm happy to be out and I ain't fucking complaining. Not technically. Because he didn't have to, listen, he didn't have to do shit. True.

He could have said, you know what, go fuck yourself. You'll do the 26. I don't give a fuck. He could have. Right. So, you know. Because you eventually did get back in front of him. Yeah.

Eventually I got back in front of him. I went back in front of him one time and got seven years off. And then the second time I came, I didn't go back in front of him. We just agreed on paper to give me five years off. And he just signed off on giving me five years off. But he also paved the way for me to get that reduction. You know? So the second one or the first one?

The second one in the court, let me put it this way. He ruled on my 2255, my second 2255, he ruled that I don't have jurisdiction. And then he said, so you say, obviously, you want to appeal it, right? I didn't have to say I wanted to appeal it. What I said was, he said, I don't have jurisdiction, but I believe that Mr. Cox should appeal this. And I'm going to waive the certificate of eligibility. Appellability. He says, I'm going to waive that.

So you're supposed to go in front of another judge and convince that judge, you have the right to appeal. He said, no, I'm waiving that. You don't have to go in front of him. And the $500, they charge you $500. which I don't have because I'm indigent in prison. I don't have 500 bucks. He said, I'm waiving the $500. That's telling the U.S. attorney and the appeals court,

I would have liked to have ruled on this. But because of precedent, I can't. But this case could be precedent. I want you to decide on this. And he obviously believes it should be decided in his favor to do the right thing, right? To be able to vote on it, to give him jurisdiction. So he's saying, I'm paving the way for you guys to send them back to me by saying, doesn't have to get the certificate, and he's not paying.

We're fast-tracking this. We're doing this as quick as possible, like rule on this. And the U.S. attorney, to the U.S. attorney, what that tells the U.S. attorney is they may rule on this, and it will become precedent. You don't want this to be precedent. You know, like if they rule where I have jurisdiction, you're going to get, it's going to be a windfall of people flooding the system to say, I want my sentence reduced. I cooperated. They didn't act on it. That's not my fault. Right. And that's and so they're thinking, fuck, we don't want

this to be, we don't want them the appellate court to rule on this. Right. So then they immediately came to me and said, Mr. Cox, we're going to go ahead and we're going to give you a one level reduction. We wanted you to give him a lawyer. Immediately they did. Right. Right. Right away they, they, they, they, where they fought for six or eight months. Suddenly they were like, well, let's wait a minute now. Let's talk about this. You didn't want to talk for six months. Well, now the shit's hitting the fan.

We want to work this out. They were so funny. I'm like, so what do we do, Frank? Frank was, I'm like, what do we do? Do we go, will we appeal it? And he's like, no, you take the deal. Like, Frank's telling me what this means, what the judge is thinking. He's like, but that doesn't mean that the appellate court's going to fucking rule.

They may say, we disagree. you don't have jurisdiction. He goes, and you're done. He's sending a message to the prosecutor like, you need to really consider what you did here. But that doesn't mean that they're going to go with it. Right. So he's like, no, no, you take the reduction. He's like, try and get you three levels.

So we started arguing for four levels. And then they came back and said two. And then we said, no, no, we'll do this and this and this and this and this. And we want to bring all these people back to court. And we want to. So I start telling, we start saying we're going to bring the, we want to have an evidentiary hearing. and I want to be able to question the FBI agent and the Secret Service agent,

I want to question. They're like, fuck, he's going to turn this into a circus. So then they said, okay, three levels. And then we were like, okay, we'll take three. Four would have sent me out the jail. Four would have been immediate release. Damn. So three was like, I'll take it

because then I can hang out here for another year, 14, 15 months, and go to halfway house. Was this in Atlanta, the court, or is it in Florida? Yeah. The courtroom was in Atlanta, But the second one, I never left the prison. This was all being done through the mail. And your judge is in Atlanta. Yeah, he's in Atlanta.

Still an active judge. Yeah, because he was super young. Like, he was placed on the bench in his early, I would say early 40s. Like 40, 45, he was appointed by, I want to say he was appointed by a Republican. Yeah, Bush. Yeah, Bush. He was appointed. He'd only been on there for a few months, like it was thought.

Think you come in the podcast? You're right. what hell no you know they're very um you know they they're very cautious on talking about things like especially cases yeah because they give something up and you're like oh and and just like what he was saying about him the export yeah yeah he they would right now like if they watch this like milly would be upset probably ir she probably wouldn't give a shit to be honest she could give a shit but but he would probably he's still on a bench he would probably be like i he knows he shouldn't have that conversation with her and he knows he shouldn't have that conversation with her and he knows

then he's probably irritated that she went and told me, although he kind of probably knew. Here's what he knew. He knew all of that was probably questionable, not even questionable. It's absolutely inappropriate. But the point is, what he'd never accounted for was this guy would be on a podcast talking about it. He figured he's, I'm telling her something. She'll tell him. He's going to do something.

I'm going to bring him back in front of court. I'm going to knock off some time. That's what's going to happen. We'll never hear from him again. Which is what he wanted to do anyway. He wanted to do the right thing. Right. I guess he did the wrong thing to do because he probably listened to the prosecutor earlier.

Yeah. And he's kind of like, because he's probably like, I don't really want to do that. Okay, I'll do that because of that reason. But as long as you're going to do what you say you're going to do, I'll do that. And she's telling him he'll be back here at least twice. Yeah. So he's thinking, well, he's coming back at least once. All right.

So I'll do the show. Right. Bring all the reporters out and I'll do the show. I'll hammer up. When she told you that information, had you got any time off? Like when you found out, when you found out about that conversation? No. You don't understand.

So, yeah, how did you feel when you found out that information? You know, the problem was, is that I immediately went out and I talked to, I want to say, John Gordon, which was a guy in the medium that was doing legal. You know, what's funny is I remember, like some of the events he brings up, like I remember in time when they happen. So I told John Gordon, and he was saying, I was like, what do I do? What does that mean? I talked to Jason Weeks, and I talked to John Gordon.

Jason Weeks wanted to, first of all, I don't think he was even doing legal work at the time. He didn't even want to do anything. And then he was like, oh, have your family send me $2,000. It was like, go fuck yourself. Jason Weeks. Yeah. I do remember you. We were, Matt and I were having our Saturday classroom meetings.

And he was, you were discussing. all this stuff. And you told me you taught. Because believe it not, Jason Weeks was only there when we were there about four or five months before he finally went to the low. I want to say a year, but yeah, yeah. About a year? Maybe a year. Okay. Well, keep in mind, too, I was there longer than you. True. I was there for three, for two years. You were only about two years because you left. No, I got there before you did. You showed up after I did. Oh, yeah, I did leave. Yeah, you'd left for like a year. Yeah, you're right. And I stayed for a year. And then I left, went to the low and you came back. Yeah.

Like, we literally missed each other by, like, a month. So anyway, but yeah, I remember, I don't know if it was you or what, but we decided that I was going to go to talk to John Gordon. Right. Because John Gordon and weeks were using the same template. And John Gordon was like, man, give me $600, I'll do it. And when I explained it to him, he said, the judge is looking for a reason to give you something. You have to get him back into court. So then I paid John Gordon.

He wrote up this motion. It was a motion to compel. I gave, put the motion in, and then when I moved to, I went to the low, I withdrew the motion because I talked to Jason Weeks and he was like, you don't have enough to win. He's like, you don't have enough to win. Nothing's happening. And also, I had by that point, I've been contacted by American greed. And he was like, pull it, do the American greed. Now you'll have Dateline and American greed.

This is twice they've asked you to do something and they've promised they'd reduce your sentence. And by the time American Greed was up, I'd been asked to write an ethics and fraud course. Only this time I had something from the U.S. attorney's office on paper requesting I do write an ethics and fraud course. So Jason was like, don't do anything. Do the ethics and fraud course. Like you want as much in your arsenal as possible. And you actually have a letter this time from them. So I went ahead and did that too.

And at that point, that's when. By the time all that was done, that's when I went to Amadeo because by that point, I think, well, Weeks was just, I don't, I think, I don't know what happened with it. I mean, he might have moved or whatever, or I wouldn't talk it to him. He said, he's such a jackass. We got an argument or something, he said something snide to me. I mean, he's just so condescending. So anyway, regardless, by that time I talked to Frank, and I was watching Frank walk people

out the door. So I was like, this guy, as crazy as he is, he can do legal work. I'm going to let me really. Right. So, so let's go back. So I got my sentence to 26 years. Well, I was going to ask you, like, when they took you, like, Like, when they pulled you out of the courtroom, after your lawyer's like, don't worry about it.

You know, what did she say, by the way, when you're taking you out? I'm sorry. She's like, look, you still have these other cases pending. They're investigating them. They're going to make arrests. We're going to get your sentence ruse. Don't worry about it. It's going to be okay.

Your thoughts. I just, honestly, I came to tell you because I just got in 26 years and four months. And I was just, my brain activity was like flatlined. Like, it was just zoned out like. And you know what? Do you remember? She goes, I forget what she said. Oh, she was calculating.

When the judge, you know, they start reading up, I'm going to give you, you know, 12 months for this, 200 months for this, you know, you know, and they start adding it up, you know, add this, plus this, four point enhancement for that. They start adding it all up. She's adding it up, boom, blah, blah, plus 24 months for aggravated identity theft. She looked at me and she goes, oh my God, that's 20, like she was like, that's 20. one years or something. And I go, that's, I go, that's, I go, that's 26 years and four months. Like my count, my calculation, she's using a calculator. And I'm like, like I'd never been so fucking on point.

And she went, she sat there and she went like this. She's like, no, no, no. And she goes, oh, yeah. And I was just like, so yeah, at that point, you know, he sentenced me and he rambled off the rest of his stuff. And they, of course, I'm shack. They shackle me up. And the U.S.

Marshall walks me out. And in Atlanta, they have this. hallway, like obviously the different chambers are, you know, one chamber after, you know, one courtroom after another after another, and all of them lead out to a hallway that runs behind all of them. So you can imagine, you walk, and it's all white, the floors are white, the walls are white, the ceiling is white. So you're walking down a white hallway that kind of gets to the very end, and I want to say maybe it's a door or whatever, but it's so, I don't know. And you're shackled. You're shackles on your, on your legs.

So you can, you can't make long strides. You're just little, literally, baby steps. And you feel each one. Bam, hurt, bam,

hurt, bam, hurt. Yeah. And you're just like, and you're walking. And I was just like, completely zoned out.

And the U.S. Marshall, he's like, man, 26 years. He's like, that's, I haven't seen that much time.

He's, that's a lot of time. He said, um, so you're from, you're from Tampa, huh? And I'm just like,

Yeah. Yeah, I'm from Tampa. And he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's nice down there. Like, he's like making, like, are you making fucking small talk, motherfucker? I just got 26 years. Right. Plus. And I'm like, listen, I got all the way back.

And I mean, tears are streaming down my face. I think by the time I got back to the cell, the U.S. Marshall's holding cell, I had stopped crying. You know, like, and I'm crying not like, I'm perfectly fine. But, I mean, the tears are just streaming. And then they stop. I get back to the cell, and there was a gay guy that was in the cell that had been there when I left.

Not Kiki. No. But he'd been there. It was like a, whatever. It was like a white guy. And I get back in and I sit down and they go, when I left, I told them, everybody, said, I'm going to get around 12, 13 years. That's what I'm supposed to be getting.

And you felt confident with it. Comfortable. Comfortable enough to tell everybody. Yeah. I get back. I walk in. They unshackle you. I sit down and somebody goes, and so... For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery.

Book club on Monday. Jim on Tuesday. Date night on Wednesday. Out on the town. on Thursday. Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine. And it's good for your eyes too.

Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam. Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. A lot of the same people that are there that were there before, you know, they're like, what did you get, man? I went, I got 26 years and four months. and the gay guy goes

like oh my god and he goes man they didn't they didn't throw the book at you he jumped over the fucking he jumped over the pulpit and pummeled you with it and I was like

like that didn't make me like what the fuck are you motherfucker like you can tell I've been crying you know I'm upset about it you heard me say 12 or 13 years bragging braggadociously Like, you can imagine what just happened. I didn't get an extra couple of years.

I got more than double. More than double what I expected. And this dude said they got, he jumped over the fucking pulpit or whatever and budging you with the fucking, and I'm like, like, Jesus. And, you know, but kind of by then you're starting to realize, like, people are just brutal in there. They say brutal things, not even thinking it's brutal. Well, they don't, they don't feel it.

Right. You know, I'm saying, like, you get all that time, Millie doesn't feel it. She's like, well, you know, we're going to, you know, she's kind of like, well, I can kind of sympathize, but I don't have to do 26 years. You know what I'm saying? Same thing with the guard. You're from Tampa, right? I mean, excuse me, but I don't have to do 26 years. Yeah, that wasn't to be small.

Yeah, the, you know, Marshall wants to make small talk. Like, I'm sure your day's dragging. I'm going home to my wife, but, yeah, you've got 26 to do. Yeah. The gay guy. Woo! I only got four years, so damn. Listen, there were, guys, you know what's so funny is that.

So then I'm like, fuck. Anyway, another hour or two later, like, here's what's funny is Millie comes to see me. That day? No, that same day. She comes down there and comes to see me. And there's a mesh between you and your attorney. Now, the first time I went, there was no mesh. The second time, now we're mesh.

Well, the spit can get through a mesh. I remember when I sat there in the segment, I thought, I know why they put this mesh up here. I'm not that guy, but I can see some of these dudes being upset with their attorney. Yes, just a tad. And she did the whole thing. Look, they're going to this. I talked to the prosecutor. She said that they are actively.

She knows that they're actively working on these cases. They're going to do this. They're going to do that. She fully expects that within six months to a year, you're going to be back here, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, okay. So did you believe her? Oh, listen, it didn't matter. I have 26 years.

Everybody's like, you know, I, I felt so sick to my fucking stomach. I never thought 26 years. First of all, what did I do to get 20? That's really what's going through, like, what could I have done? Everything I did didn't add up to 26 years. Like, this doesn't, this does not, like, literally, I have four victims. The most one guy lost, the most that a guy lost is like, I think it's like $12,000. another guy lost like six and then it's like four and four it's like thirty thousand

dollars between all four of them one person lost like 12 or 13,000 i didn't steal that money now granted absolutely i owe the money but you you had to pay a couple mortgage payments which went to your mortgage to the balance and but i'm somehow i'm responsible for that also you paid an attorney like six or seven thousand dollars like so i understand that i owe you that money, but it's not like I went and stole your life savings or I stole your retirement, you're old or something like that. I didn't do that. And none of these people were financially distraught as a result of that. Like, you just owner financed me a house that's worth like $225,000 or $230,000. You moved then to another house that's worth like $300,000. And this is

20 years ago. And you're the, you're running a hospital. Like, I, the other guys, guy is a CPA who has like 12 CPAs working for. You own a CPA firm and you own multiple residential, sorry, multiple rentals that are houses worth 200,000. You have multiple homes that you rent out that are worth 200,000, and you live in a house that's worth 2 or 3,000 in Georgia, and you have a CPA firm. The other person is a hard money lender. You have millions of dollars that you lend out as hard money, and you charge people 12% interest and two points. It's probably not even his money either. That he's lending out.

No, it's it was. It's his money and investors money, whatever. But either way, he's worth a few million. Right. Like all of these people that are involved, there was no, there were no school teachers. There wasn't some schoolteacher that lost four grand. Like, these are all like attorneys. And I want to say one of them was a, what was the other one?

The other person was, it was either another hard money, no, it was a title, somebody who owned a title company, said I owed them like $4,000. So it's, it's, like I was like, like, everything else was banks. So to me, I was like, who, like, I didn't, I didn't destroy anybody's life. Like, this was nothing you guys, like, probably didn't have easily having savings or you couldn't have put on a credit card or probably have the balance in your checking. account, you know? So to me, I was like 26 years because you had four victims that, that I financially inconvenienced absolutely, but didn't destroy their lives. You know, didn't destroy anybody's life. Nobody jumped off a bridge because of me. Nobody parked in front of a railroad track. Nobody took a bunch of opiates and killed themselves. Like, I'm not destroying

lives here. Nobody was kicked out of their home. So to me, 26 years was so overwhelmingly devastated that I thought the justice system could somehow justify they could give me 26 years was just, it was crushing to me. So when they, the marshals put me in the van, they drive me back to the, the jail or the U.S. Marshall's holdover. They put me in the holdover. I was fine by the time I got back there.

Really? Yeah, it was perfectly fine. Like it's been hours now. So I'm not crying. I'm fine. I'm not, mentally, I'm not fine. mentally I'm still fucking mentally I'm already figuring out when can I go to a camp and escape if things go wrong how am I going to escape like that's I'm already planning that in my head so when I but when I you know they put you in an elevator this is at they call it as Atlanta City Detention Center right it's like six stories eight store six or seven stories high and so I get on the elevator I get go up there we're being walked in we're all chained together with a waste chain sorry there's um there's a we're ankle ankle um we're shackled we're handcuffed and there's a waste chain wrapped around

everybody so you can go maybe 12 inches ahead of each other right because you're you're cheating to each other right balls to assholes you know you're saying that's what they guys balls assholes move in it's like Jesus bro so you know you're walking in into the pod and the pod is two tiers and there's 150 guys in there and so I walk in kind of like Coleman like the medium. Yeah. As I walk in and they're uncuffing me, I look up and everybody is staring at me because I find out later, I had just been on the news where they talked about having given me 26

years and they showed that sketch artist's picture of me, you know, like me like looking at my attorney or something, like, and they talked about me who I was, the 26 years, everything. So everybody just heard it when I walked in at 6 o'clock. And they're all like staring at me. And as soon as I looked up, look up at the tear and look across the tier, down the tier, across. And there's a guy that's maybe 20 feet. And he's like, bro, cox. I'm so sorry, bro.

Boom. I start fucking crying again. Boom, the tear. I mean, like, it was like someone threw a bucket of water against a fucking piece of glass. It went, whoosh, and just ran down my face. And I went, fuck. And I went, because, you know, I'm in front of 150 guys in a prison. I don't want to fucking be a, I don't want to be a cry baby, you know.

I cry all the time now. So I'm, now I'm okay with it. In front of thousands. In front of, yeah, for thousands of people see me fucking grow up. But now, you know, I've just accepted my being a bitch. So I bolt immediately to my fucking room and I lay down in bed and I just lay there and just laid there and stared at the fucking, you know, at the, uh, I was on a, had a bottom bunk, stared at the bottom bed in front ahead of mine and you know on top of mine I'm just crying

and crying and guys are coming into the office the office guys are coming into the cell the last thing you want you're like dude I don't want to talk right I don't have a conversation but they're walking in like dude man I'm so sorry bro okay and guys that you've hung out with for the last six months or stuff they're walking in like Cox like you know one guy walked in he's like bro I ain't gonna listen man and this was even worse he's like man listen no I know it seems like a lot of time bro but like like I ain't going to forget about you bro like I'm gonna I'm only going to do a couple years, bro. Like, I'm going to put money on my books, on your books.

I'm going to make sure you're okay. And, you know, all this stuff that's just like, what are you saying? Get out of here. Motherfucker, like, I don't even know. We don't even know each other. Like, I don't know your last name. Everybody calls you do-do. You know?

So, yeah, it's, you know, they're saying, I think that people when they say it's going to be all right, it's going to be, they say that more for themselves. They feel bad. They're saying it for themselves. They're hoping to alleviate. you know, the situation or the stress or the anxiety in the situation, but they're really kind of saying it for yourself. Because the truth is it's not going to be okay. Well, like, and that's my whole point because at that moment, it felt like it was impossible.

It's over. That's not even possible to be done. Like, you can't do 26 years. You can't fathom 26 years. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. So let me ask you this. At what point did you, and before, because I'm sure once they reduced it,

it then became doable. But at any point before they reduced it, did you kind of in your mind say, okay, this is going to be my existence for the next 20 plus years? What do you think you came to that? So, you know, eventually I go to Coleman and I went to the medium. And then I did the American Greed episode. Like they contacted me. I did that. And then I was moved to the low.

So when I was at the low Well first of all I'm still thinking I'm going to escape I remember I spoke with Miss Smalls Do you remember Miss Smalls? Of course I remember Miss Smalls She was so nice

There was a lot of nice ones There was a lot of nice ones There were nicer people really at the medium than they were at the low Yes So I went and I had talked to Mrs. Smalls This was after Miss Bates had died She was my initial counselor

Or whatever Case manager Was she? She was a case manager, Smalls. So Ms. Smalls had told me, she said, look, she said, you've got a lot of time, you're going to be here, then you're going to go to the low. She said, at around 12, she said, if she's probably around 12 years, you could go to a camp. And I thought it was 10 years. If you have 10 years and less, you can go to a camp.

I said, I thought it was 10 years. And she says, well, she said, because your points are so low and because of the, you have a, you have, no violence and because of your, your history, she said, at 12 years, I can go to Grand Prairie and I can make, you can make a special request that this person would be better off at a camp. She is, and I would probably do that. She said, I would do that. I won't be your case manager in 12 years. In 12 years.

That's a long time, Matt. No, she's like, she's like, so whoever your case manager is, she said, I would suggest it around 12 years. She said, worst case scenario, 10 years. So I remember thinking, I'm already thinking, so I'm thinking, okay, so I already have, like, I had like 11 or 12 years left at that, 12 years to get to the 10 years. Right. So I remember thinking, okay, so if at 12 years I could go, then that means I basically have about 10 years left. So I'm going to do a 10 year sentence at worst, because I'm planning, I'm thinking escape.

Escape. Now, I know going to the medium, looking at the medium, you're not getting out of there. There's just no way. Looking at the low, you're not getting out of there. It loads the same thing as the medium. It was the same security setup. Right. They had a fence around it, so you can't.

They had two fences, barbed wire, and it's electric, not electrified, it's got that motion detection. So if you walked up and, if you threw a ball at the fence and hit it, immediately, they're screaming, locked down. They race the cars that are, it's constantly got two vehicles driving around it. They would immediately lock up, turn around, and drive straight to that spot. Like, you're done. You're not getting out. right here. So, anyway, I thought, yeah, 10 years, 10 years, maybe 12, 10 years, maybe 12. And I've already done a couple years by that point. And I'm like, okay. So anyway, about a year

later, I did American Greed, and then I went to the low. When I got to the low and I started writing my memoir, I wrote, started writing my memoir, and then I also was contacted, I wrote the ethics and fraud course, and then I filed the paperwork. And when I was filing the paperwork and it was just no good. And everybody was telling me, like, you're, you're going to lose this. Like, you understand in the 11th district, like, you cannot force them to reduce your sentence. You just can't. And so I was basically waiting for the, it was, I was just going through the motions. I'm waiting for the denial. Even though Frank's, you know, amazing, I'm kind of waiting for the denial. And at that point, I kind of figured, well, okay, you're going to do all your time.

Like, you're going to do all your time. And when you get to a, when you get to a camp, then, you know, maybe you escape, right? But I knew my new, my new case manager had already told me she wouldn't send me to a camp until I was probably had five years to the door. And I went, why? She said, you were on the run for three years. She was, you got rabbit in your blood. She was, you'd run it 10 years. And I was like, oh, this bitch got to go.

I mean, like, we got to get rid of her. Who's been talking to you? Who told you that? Like, and I acted offended. I did the whole, oh. How could you say that? Do I like I run that fast? But I didn't know.

I never heard that before, like, rabbit in your blood. Like, shut up. Stop trying to be him. And insult me. Go ahead. So I was at that point, I was really starting to think,

and here's what's fucked up about that, is I remember thinking to myself, I would do five years. I remember thinking, she's right. I wouldn't run for five years. Like for five years, I'd probably stay.

And I thought, God, man, she's good. She knows what she's talking about. We got to get rid of her. We need another. But 10 years, you wouldn't do. Five, you would. I thought, yeah, I'd probably do five in a camp. Right.

I'm saying you would, but if it was 10 years left. I'd leave. I'd leave as soon as I could. And everybody's like, you know, you can walk away. But then again, I was thinking, at 10 years, who's picking me up? First of all, it would take me a year or so. You'd be that Reese. Well, it would take me a year or so to get in good enough with somebody.

that was leaving, that you could explain to them, I need to- Yeah, I could, but you don't know what Reese is going to do, but nobody's seen Reese for-I understand, but I'm talking about when we knew him at, we knew him at the medium. I understand, but do you understand right now, nobody's seen Reese in months. They can't contact him. Like, I remember thinking Reese wouldn't survive more than a six months to a year out out here. He's probably going to kill himself on meth, you know?

Because remember, he was taught, he's in, and he's in federal prison talking about, talking about when he gets out, he's going to start making math. Not to sell just for personal use. It's like, oh, my God. Like, what an expiring future you have. Yeah, he had no intentions. No intentions of cleaning up his life. So I'm thinking this guy's probably back in pretty.

Like, I didn't know what I was going to do, but I figured I'll get somebody to come pick me up. And that's really a lot of that's just in your head to get through the day. The acceptance. That's part of the, like, I've got this. and I don't see how I'm going to get rid of it, the acceptance part. So I would say there was a point, there was a good point during that procedures when I was waiting to get turned down where I started thinking

that I'm basically going to get turned down and then I'm just going to have to wait it out and I'm going to start writing stories. Maybe it was a year or two later where I, then I thought I had like eight years left, seven or eight years left. And I remember thinking, you're just going to, you're just going to spend the rest of your time writing stories and you're going to get out with like 50 stories and you're going to get some more books because by that point I've got a I've got a book deal I'm getting money in from a book I'm being contacted by by true crime authors work trying to work with me like I'm thinking I might

be able to get out of here with something you know so so yeah that's where I was like I got to a point where I started realizing you know what you're just going to have to make a life in here and be okay and I stopped thinking about escaping and And I don't, by that point, it's like, oh, you got like eight years left. You can do that. You just did seven. You can do another seven or eight. Right.

And then so, and as I was writing, I was getting more and more acclimated to the environment. Within a year or so, I was like, this is fine. I'm okay with this. I don't, I'm all right. Like, I'm not thinking about, now I'm not daydreaming about getting out and getting married or having a wife and being in love and all that's gone. You know, getting at having a nice house and living comfortably and having a nice car. Like, I don't think about that.

Now I think about getting out and living in. someone's spare room and writing and maybe eventually being a professional true crime writer, that would be interesting. Like, that's the rest of your life because you're getting a get-out and you're going to be, at that point it was going to be 55. And I was like, I'll be starting over with nothing at 55, but I'll have a bunch of stories and maybe I can do so. So, you know, you're doing that.

And then you just thought, because you get in, your world becomes, we talked about this when I was in the medium. Your world goes from this. like most people's world is like in the United States they don't or some people's world is in their state some people is just in their city that's their whole world my world was the planet

I've been all over the world I've been to Germany I've been to England I've been to fucking Jamaica I've been to Burmuda I've been to Italy I've been all over the place I can go anywhere so my world went from this to inside the fences of Coleman that's it so you know so I started

I stopped thinking about being outside. I had already stopped dreaming about being outside. There's no more dreams about outside. And there's no more dreams about outside people. Everybody I dream about is now within the fence. And these are things that are happening in Coleman. That's the roughest part. Is not when your dreams are incarcerated?

I used to tell me, I'm like, I go, my dreams are in. Like, I'd be with a woman and I'd actually be in my bunk. Yes. And I'm thinking like, what the? But then eventually. Hold on, hold up. The guard's coming. But then eventually you stop.

I stopped. I don't know about you. Eventually, eventually, I stopped. stopped even dreaming about people on the outside. So all my dreams were just about the inmates and, and they all took place within the fences, within the fence. Yeah, the prison. So that's a hard reality.

But you stopped thinking about escaping, and now it's just living within this, this confinement, and then, and then suddenly I'm walking around the track with this guy, and he says, oh, yeah, I hit some Ponzi ski money, and I thought, whoa. I had something. All right, so transitioning. May not be doing that eight years. So transitioning from that to your first reduction that you got, right? And now it's very close.

Oh, yes. Like that, I'm like, first of all, like that, I'm two years away. Just like that, two years away to the door. And I'm thinking I'm getting a year halfway house. So really, I'm a year away. Because, but I, you know, immediately calculated a year halfway. I'm like, oh, I'm going to get a year halfway house. I didn't.

So by the time they found, it had been almost a year by the time they put me in. And when they put me in, I got seven months halfway house. Well, you know what's even worse about that? I actually initially got nine months halfway house. But the amount of time when you got it? No, no. I got nine years, but the halfway houses were so full. Oh.

That they recalculated it. And so I went into the secretary and I said, hey, here's my paper. this is who's going to be picking me up like on the 11th and she went oh you're getting out the you're getting out on the on the 9th I went no I think it's the 11th of you know it's the 11th she says no it's the it's the ninth it's it's January 9th and I went January like I'm getting out in October October 11th and she's like oh no that changed a couple that changed like a week ago. When did that happen? Like, my parent, my mom thinks she's showing up in like a couple, in like a week or two, like two weeks she's showing up. And, and, you know, because you have

to tell them who's coming to pick you up. You have to give them the, and they have to make sure that it's okay for them to pick you up. So, and so she's, oh, yeah, yeah, nobody told you. No. No, nobody told me, like my mom would have shown up thinking she's picking up her son. And you're not even talking about. So I had to call my mom, you know, that's horrible to tell her that I'm not you it's sorry they just put it off three months or it was like two months I think it was like two months like two months so it was like there's like November it was like September to January something like that anyway it's like two to maybe three months away I was fucking pissed but either way it's like okay it's two more months right big deal yes coming up and so yeah I ended up

you ended up all right so when they what I'm asking is like what were you thinking when like that your sentence change like oh yeah I mean, I was in, the, I was just in, when, you know, I didn't even believe it necessarily until, so you, you're going to tell you this. So I finally, I got a piece of paper in the mail that said, boom, your sentence has been changed and it gave the little calculations. But if you looked on the BOP website, it's still the same. It's still the same. My first reduction, you could see it change right away. The second one, it didn't change.

What about the first one came? I said my first one changed. Right. No, how did you feel when the first one came? I was like, this is doable. Like, I might fucking, you know what I really thought? I might survive this. I might be getting out. Like, they're going to, I was going to be in my 60s.

If I'd say, my out date was 20, 30. I would have been 60. So I'm like, holy shit. It went from 2030 to what? It went from 2030 to like 20, 25. Wow. So even though it was seven years. years, you know, the gain time, right? So it might have been 2024. So the game time, you know?

Yeah. So it's like 2030 to 2024, I think. Because they don't give you like seven years off because when they take the seven years off, you, your game time that was originally calculated on your whole sentence, they add it back on. Well, because you don't have 26 years of game time. You now have 25, or 24 years of whatever game. So what year did you get that first reduction? Uh, maybe two thousand, four, uh, like to a 14, maybe 14, like 10 years left at the point they, yeah, I had like eight years. Because I, I think I calculated Ardap one year off in my head. Right. So like eight, nine.

Yeah, I had like eight eight years and change left. Like without Ardap, maybe almost nine years. Oh, wow. That's a big difference. Right. So, so then that happened, boom. And I had maybe less, probably a little bit. it less than two years, roughly two years, right?

Maybe, maybe a 22 months left. Oh, so when the second one came, so when the first one came, you had eight years left, and you're like, hey, I can survive this. Yes. Like, this is doable. I've got eight years. You're probably, are you thinking about I'm going to do a couple more books? Yeah, yeah.

I'm just going to write this out. Oh, I'm thinking I'll do, I'll do at least three or four more books. I'll write another fucking seven or eight, um, uh, synopsies, a true crime synopsies. I've got shorter versions of books, right? Like, instead of a 300-page book, you're going to write a 20-page synopsis. So I'm good. You're three years from a camp. Right.

And I'm thinking, by that point, I'll get out of here. I'll be, I've been getting into a bunch of fucking magazines. Like, I'll be able to build a life for myself in here, which I've had already done, which I was super, super happy at that point, about just about my life in general. Like, I remember, like, I'm in prison thinking, I got a pretty good life. I got a bunch of guys hanging out with. I like these guys. Like, my buddy Pete.

I like Pete. I like so and so. You got a click. You got a little click with you. Even the guys that were dickheads, you still kind of like them sometimes. You know, sometimes we go play risk. So I get to watch movies. There's a movie room.

You know, there's a TV. Walking Dead is great. You know, get to watch Walking Day every Sunday. Like, that's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, like the little tiny things that you take for granted out here were amazing in there. Absolutely. So you get the second one.

It's two years left. I got two. Yeah. So now you're like, I'm about to get out. So you're thinking about. But they didn't change it in the system. immediately, immediately, which was good because I didn't want to be moved to a camp. So it still said I had like roughly 10 years or something.

And I was thinking, okay, that's good. But then at one point they came to me and they said, hey, you're going to be moved. I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm going to be moved. And they're like, we're moving you to a camp. And I was like, well, because my mom was an hour away. She was never going to be able to, even if I went to the closest camp, which would have been like Miami, that's a four hour drive. She's in a wheelchair.

She's never going to make it. So, you know, and my mom, my sister used to say, my sister and brother said that basically the only reason that was keeping her alive was coming to see me every two weeks. Because she wanted to, she wanted to be able to stay alive long enough for me to get out of prison. And I know exactly what you know, you know exactly what I mean, because it was the same situation with your mother. And that, you know, and it's so funny, too, because your, your brothers and sisters are

telling you that, which is they, which is, it's so, it's agony. Oh, no. For them. But we did a podcast on that. Yeah. But they, God, that hurts. I don't think that they said it to hurt you. Right.

You know, in a way, I think it was said to be up, like, make you feel good, maybe? I don't, I don't know. That's the roughest thing that even think about. I think, like, I would tell my siblings something like, you know, like she's holding on for you. Like, she cares about you. And they meant, I think they meant that to make me feel good. But that doesn't. It was agony.

It does. And, and, oh, because we can go down that track and I get lost. Because to get out and to see them. Like, it's like, oh, my God. It's like this is what's left. Yeah, deteriorating. And you feel, you feel like you've been cheated anyway. But, God, that's, all right, let's get off that topic, please.

So, anyway, what happens is, so I end up having to go into ARDAP. And so I went into ARDAP and once- To keep from leaving. To keep from being moved, transfer. Right. Because you go into the ARDAP program, they put a, they basically, it's called a management variable, but it locks you to the institution. Because you're in a program, they can't move you in the middle of program.

So I go into ARDAP And turn it upside down And what I did was Then I took a copy of my My Rule 35 The Reduction Because I thought I'm already in ARDAP By the time I get out of ARDap

They're going to put me into You know They're going to put me The halfway house And I had to put this in Because Ardap wouldn't take me at 10 years So when they look and oh he applied for Ardap He's got 10 years

He can't come to Ardap You have to have three years It was about to change No. Okay. So they're telling me they're going to move me. My counselor saying, I'm going to move you. You got 10 years. You're under 10 years. We're moving you to a camp. And I say, no, no, I'm going to Ardap. I'm applying for Ardap. And I show her my thing. And she's like, oh, wow. So your sentence got reduced. And I go, yeah. And I go, I'm just waiting for it to hit the computer. And I'm going to apply for Ardap. Now keep in mind, it's been, it's been six or eight months that it hasn't. It has, no, I told you it never hit. And that happens sometimes. They just don't. So what you do is you make a copy of it, you write up a cop out, and you mail it, you put it in to go to Grand Prairie. Two weeks later, I get something back from Grand Prairie saying, it's been changed. They have a printout, the new outdate and everything. So I immediately turn around.

I go to Ardap. I do my interview for Ardap, and they say, absolutely, you can come into Ardap. And I'm in there two weeks later. So I'm at Ardap, so I don't get moved. The problem is now my date says that I'm getting out like in less than two years. and I don't want to get the year off because I would get the year off it cuts into my halfway house

and I need as much halfway house as possible. So if I get a year off, I'm getting less halfway house. And so I wait seven months until they put the management variable on me

and then management variable is good for a year. Right. So I go into my counselor or sorry, to the main person, the, um,

uh, the, You know the doctor, you know, the doctor, the doctor over Ardap. Yeah, I go to the doctor and I say, and I put in a cop out saying, I want to leave. And so I leave Ardat. But they're not going to move me to a camp because I have a year, your management variable is on you for a year. Oh, so you tricked them into giving you a management variable. Right.

So I'm good. That's why I went into Ardap to get to get the management variable. Even if you drop out, they don't remove it. So I'm sitting there, I'm good. I'm fine. You know, it's fine. And so three, about two, no, sorry, about two months later. New York is it just at three months

because you can't reapply for ARDAP for three months at exactly three months my counselor or case manager, whatever it was. She comes to me and she says, hey Matt, or she's Cox, I got to talk to you and I said, yeah, what's up? And I remember she didn't call me in her office. She just saw me in the hallway. And she said, hey, come here.

And I said, what's up? She said, I'm going to put you in for the camp. And I went, why? And she goes, because she said, I go, why? I said, no, no, you can't. I said, I have a management variable on me. She was, yeah, I know, but that was for ARDAP, and you're not in ARDAP anymore. And I went, wait a second.

I said, it's good for a year. And she was, yeah, but I can make a special request to have it taken off. And I went, what? Like, nobody ever told me that? Like, I can't like, I'm like, what? And so I looked at it. I went, what? I said, I didn't know that.

And she goes, no, I said, well, you can't. I said, I'm actually going back into ARDAP. And she goes, when? I said, listen, I got problems. I said, I have a drug addiction. I got major criminal thinking. And I said, I've already talked to Dr. Smith. She's putting me in.

And she goes, this is BOP fraud right here. Yeah. And she looked at me and she goes, oh, I didn't know that. I said, yeah, yeah. I said, I talked to her the other day. I said, she's put me into the next meeting. I mean, the next class. And she goes, oh, okay, well, then in that case, I'll hold off.

I said, okay, cool. I turn around. I go right to the computer. I immediately say, I need to be back in RDAF. I have a problem. I need it. And they interview you. Yeah, within a week, she interviews me and puts me back into ARDAP.

They put the management variable. So it still takes months before they put management variable back on me. Well, I'm sorry, it's still extending. So they refile it. So when they refile it, I go to, I wait until, I'm about to graduate. Like, I'm in like seven or eight months into ARDAP. I got like a month, month and a half to graduate. But I don't want to graduate.

Right, because you have to quit. So you quit so you can get to the halfway house. Right. I quit so I can get as much halfway house as possible, which I thought was going to be a year. And initially it was nine months, which was perfect. Like I literally, I quit ARDAP and within, and a month later, I'm going to the halfway house. But then I told you, I went in, I'd give them the piece of paper to say, hey, here's who picking

me up. And they're like, oh, okay. And she's like, oh, yeah, on the 9th. And I'm like, no, no, no, the 11th. And she's like, no, no, on January 9th. And I went, January. I'm supposed to be leaving in like, whatever, November or something. Like, I think, like, or, you know, like, I'm thinking it's only like a month or two and a half

months. They cut off like two and a half months, like two months, I figured it exactly. But it was huge. And I was like, fuck. So I had to go call my mom to, but it still doesn't matter. It's only two more months. And it doesn't matter anyway because I'm in the middle of writing a story and I'm happy and I'm leaving. So then I leave.

I leave on January 9th and I go to the halfway house. So when you get into the halfway house, right? How did you feel at that point? Like I kept waiting for them. Well, I'm talking about the end of your, because you're waiting for the end of your time. Right. You know, we got two sentences, the supervised release, the probation. So you're waiting for the end of your time for your sentence to end.

Right. So I, well, I mean, when I go to the halfway house, like. Yeah, when you go to, so the halfway house is the last part. You're still in confinement in the halfway house. Oh, you're in prison. It's run by the, it's a BOP. You're on BOP. Right.

So you're, all you have to do then is what, like four or five months before your sentence actually ends before you're out of custody? Seven months. I had seven months in the half of the house. And I did all seven. can go home on an ankle mounter. I don't have anywhere to go. So you just,

you wrote it out in the halfway house. Which was fine because I was saving money. So I was okay with that. And the only problem with the halfway house is I kept seeing people go back, get, you know, get yanked up. Yeah.

Guys are getting yanked up. Every day, the sheriff are showing up, grabbing them and taking them away. I saw that. You know, and it was always for stupid reasons. Sometimes it was stupid reasons because of the halfway house.

Sometimes it was stupid reasons because of the inmate. And it, you know, it would be like they tried to get permission to go to an interview, and their counselor wasn't going to be there. And so what they did was they went to work, and the place, the interview place was only like a couple miles away. So then somebody at their work drove them to the interview. They did the interview and came back and thought it would be okay. And then their counselor sees that their monitor says that they

went here for an hour and came back. And they violate them. They're like, no, you don't understand. I put in for the thing, but you didn't approve it because it was your day off. And so I did the thing. They're like, right, so you should have called them and told them I can't go to the interview. Right, right. And they're like, so I'm, yeah, but you don't understand. I wasn't off partying or at a bar. I wasn't off with a girl. I was, this is for me to get another job. And they're like, yeah, I don't care. Like, you know, you're going back. So now I have to go back for nine months to prison or for three months or whatever it is. So the point is, is that I was terrified the whole time I was in there. But I was able to work like 70 hours, 80 hours a week at

gym right we know about that i have a buddy who owned a gym so he ran interference for me right ran and that's how he had put it because i'll run interference right right right halfway house i didn't really i was like i think i know what that means so i could basically go wherever i wanted during the day i didn't i almost i've made at the only thing time i ever left the the gym was to go to my see my mom at the go to see my mom at her house because even while you're in the halfway house, you can only see your parents, you can only see visitors in the halfway house. So she had to, every week she had to put in a thing to get approved. We have to have my brother or my sister, put her, get her in her wheelchair into a car, drive her here, come to see me for one hour. It's like, bro, I can just sit

there and I can just drive to her house and see her. And if they, if the halfway house called the gym, then my boss would pick up the phone and be like, hey, yeah, yeah, he just went to go pick up some equipment. Oh, yeah. That is running interference now. It is. It is. Super good guy.

So where'd you go after the halfway house? Like the day they released you from the halfway house, where did you go? I went to, um, I had a friend of mine that was running kind of like a rooming house, right? Like she had a sheriff's deputy that was going through a divorce living in one room. She had another room that was available. So I lived in that room. So she's, she also lived there with her husband and her two kids. But this was a massive house.

This wasn't like a rooming house in the middle of the hood. Right. This is like your wife runs, but go ahead. This is like the, this is land of lakes. Like this is, we're on a lake. My halfway house was probably worth $6 or $700,000. Right. Hardwood floors.

Not halfway house, but the room for rent. My rooming house, the rooming house I moved into was on a lake with a pool with hardwood floors. This is a nice, but it's still a rooming house. Like I don't run the place. I mean, I'm not, it's not my house or anything, but, but it was nice and clean. and nobody was in the next room screaming, you know, or doing drugs or there weren't homeless people when I walked out my front door. So it was nice.

I stayed there for almost 18 months, over a year, year and maybe 14 months. I stayed there for about 14 months. And I went from there to, I start when I was there for six months while I was there, I started making YouTube videos. Right. And then I went and got a one-bedroom. apartment and my, I say booking agent, but really he's just a friend that had met me through doing a podcast on Danny Jones's podcast. He had contacted me and said, you should start a

YouTube channel. I'll help you for no, no, just to help me. Right. And his name is Tyler Sherman. And he's now kind of like a booking agent for a bunch of guys. I think he was trying to get his feet going, you know, get it going. So he's like, you should start a podcast. I'll help you. So I did it for six months without really any help and then I had caught we had talked several times he said what do you need to do to turn it into like Danny Jones's podcast like but for true crime and I I told him what what I needed and I said I needed you to find an editor that will work for whatever the channel is bringing in which is about 300 bucks a month I said and and I was like and do all the editing and thumbnails and everything and which basically I gave him this because it was an impossible task

it's like this is never happening but he did it listen was it with it with Then less than a week later, he called me and said, can you meet this guy at like First Watch? Wow. And I was like, what? He's like, he lives in here. You mean, this guy lives in Georgia. So he's like, he lives here. And I think that's an hour and a half away from you.

And you live here. But what's been between you is Brandon. And there's, I think there's a first watch. And you like, I think there's a first watch. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, yeah, if you guys could meet there in Brandon and like this restaurant. I don't know if he picked First Watch. But whatever, he's like, yeah, right there in Brandon.

And so we ended up meeting for First Watch. And I had screenshot at all of the analytics and sent it to Colby. And so when we got there, Colby was like, look, looked at the analytics. I think I can do this. He said, you got to change the channel. Names. Because he said that nobody's looking up inside true crime. He said, everybody's looking up, Matt.

Do you remember this? Yeah, I remember you go to the analytics. You can see everybody's finding the channel or searching the channel. It's all through Matthew Cox. Yeah. Or Matt Cox, Matthew Cox. Or Matt Cox, Conman, Matt Cox, True Crime. Nobody.

So he played it smart. Yeah. Nobody's saying inside true crime. So I said, well, what if we go to Matt Cox slash inside true crime? Well, that worked. All the thumbnails I had up there had inside true crime on it already. Like, I don't want to change those. Not that knowing now, it's like, that didn't mean anything.

But it meant something to me. So, yeah, and I had a website called Inside True Crime. And I had all these other things called Inside True Crime. So it's like, fuck, I've kind of been branding this. Right. But because when I took intro to business, that was the whole thing. If you're going to build a business, you don't use your name. because the goal is to sell the business.

Right. And but that's like the old model. And that's if I was a manufacturer or somebody. Like not for YouTube, it doesn't work. No, when you're the, when you're the infamous. When you are the business. So wrapping it all up, which I have to do. Yeah.

Let me ask you this. So now that you've kind of went through the whole sentence, how do you really feel knowing that all of that is done? I mean, I do. I feel, I'm not saying I don't feel good, but you don't understand. people are like, but I'm not an overly emotional person. Like there's, like for my 21st birthday, I didn't go out and get drunk. But what you went through, you were very emotional.

Like, all of that you just went through? Like, when you got the time? Yes, of course. I'm super thankful that it's over that, you know, I don't really think it's behind me. The reason I don't think it's behind me is because my whole life is kind of true crime. Does that make sense? It's not like I'm going to get a job at a law firm or a regular business. And I don't have to think about this anymore.

I think about it every day. Yeah, no, you think about the crimes every day. You don't think about the punishment. No, I never really thought. If I thought about the punishment, I'd never would have done it. Exactly. If I'd known. You think it's the proceeding act.

It's not the punishment that you're thinking. Because the punishment from the beginning seemed impossible. It seemed ridiculous, outlandish. Like, are you fucking kidding me? You know, and you made it. I used to say they should teach the sentencing guidelines. high school. If kids knew what they could be facing, they wouldn't believe it. They'd be like, that can't happen. Like, I can't, I sold some weed and I can get, people get 30 years for

weed. Sure. I met dozens of them. Yes. 20 years. 10 years, 20 for weed for, you know, you've changed it now, but yeah, so have I. Well, I know, but I'm saying like you, it's like saying, you're telling me that if I, because I have a felon for selling some drugs and I got a felony, but I'm off probation that if he has a gun in my car, I could go chill for three years. Yes. You know, the problem with them teaching that is it's probably not logical for the same reason that you got denied, it doesn't seem. It probably wouldn't sink in.

Yeah. They probably would be like, that doesn't even make sense. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a big problem with the justice system is thinking that it's fair and it will, it's applied appropriately like you're wrong you're wrong you're absolutely it's not the case but we but you I don't want to say we it's not my turn yet but you made it yeah yeah I'm happy he's happy people I am happy actually the happy well if he's not I'm ecstatic for him I've been so happy

for him the whole time before it even happened I'm like is it happened it's like hey hey chill out chill out it's good I'm good I'm happy for you but I appreciate it I am I mean if If people really wanted to show their love, they could join my Patreon. True that. Can you join that for him more? Surviving a 26 year? I'm not above just taking straight money, straight cash. Like if somebody sent me money to my PayPal or my...

For making it, for making it. Yeah, if you said, you know what, Matt, go get some... Go get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I'm going to send you $7. Like, my cash app is in the description. I'm not above that. There was a time I was above it, but I'm not. You know, but, yeah.

But really, Patreon would be better. 10 bucks, you get Patreon exclusive, exclusive Patreon content. About 30 minutes. 30 minutes. On this episode, in the beginning, we'll probably be on there. Okay. Unrelated to this topic, so. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching.

Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so you get notified videos just like this. Also, please leave a comment. Please share the video because that's super important for the algorithm. Also, please consider joining my Patreon. it's $10 a month and it really helps

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