Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Insane Stories From Ex Mafia Enforcer (Sal Polisi, John Gotti, Sammy The Bull, & Michael Franzese)

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Insane Stories From Ex Mafia Enforcer (Sal Polisi, John Gotti, Sammy The Bull, & Michael Franzese)

I got involved in a bank scam that was huge. Like, I only got maybe, say, a million, two million. The guys who got the money was the vice president of the bank, they got 80 million. So they busted the vice president, and they forgot about my million dollars. I see all the jurors getting in the limousine. The next morning, I went up to the prosecutor. Are you guys, morons and what? You got all the jurors riding the limousine.

You don't think John Gotti's going to reach one of those jerks. He's going to pay off. A juror, a brideroom, and he's going to win this case. Say, Sal, you're looking at too much television. And that's exactly what happened. I predicted it. And of course, years later, Sammy the Bull told the story. That's exactly what they did.

They paid off a witness 60 G's. And God, he became a superstar. One time I had docked the truck and brought it to Jimmy, we went into the building. So I give you $72,000. And I go, wait a minute, let's think about this. Let me call Dom. I called Dom in the company.

He came back down in an hour, Jimmy. He said, okay, I'll give you $90,000. I go, we were hijacking so many trucks. We would get information from the guys who worked at Kennedy Airport. Well, we hijacked a truck full of Italian shoes. When I got it over to Jimmy Burke, I would call up. He said, come over quickly. You got a problem.

Got the guy coming, the Jewish guys come and look at these beautiful Italian shoes. You got a problem. I go, what's the problem? You got 8,000 pairs of shoes, but they're all left. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I'm going to be doing an interview with Salvatore Polisi and Adrian Martinez. It's going to be a super interesting interview. Adrian's going to be helping me out. He knows all about Sal.

And so it's going to be about an hour interview. So I appreciate you guys watching. Check out the interview. So where were you, you know, where were you born? Were you, it was this in, you know, New York, New Jersey, Brooklyn, New York. And I had an Italian family, I had an uncle that was deeply entrenched in the mob. Actually, my uncle, and I think the guy that was my father, because I'm not sure. My uncle might have been my father.

My father might not have been my father. But in the late 20s, 29, 30, like a couple of years before, you know, prohibition ended, they were driving a horse and wagon from Long Island, bringing bulls up to New York City. So they were 20, 21 years old, involved in crime. and they knew all these criminals. So my uncle Tony stayed with crime his whole life because he was a gambler. He was a swashbuckling, you know, high-energy guy

who drove fancy cars, pinky diamond rings, beautiful women. And eventually in the 60s, he got involved with a guy named Sonny Franzisa. A lot of people knew he was. That's Michael Francis is right. Right, Michael. I met Michael in 78 after he got made, shook his hand. Didn't see him.

Oh, my God. until 2013 we did a show for National Geographic together and they trucked us around the limousine and you know Michael I go Michael you realize you were royalty I was in the street you didn't have to do what I did

you didn't rob no banks white collar crimes yeah yeah you know Michael was very smart very shrewd so you know you never know who you're going to meet and then 30, 40 years later you meet him again or you read about yeah so I started out with my uncle in a gambling operation. From there, I got involved with the guy who came out

of prison that was close to Carmine Persico's name was Little Dom, Dominic Cato. And he was the hitman. So the thing about Catoldo was his dad and my uncles and dad, they all knew each other in the 30s. So instantly, that's what gives you credibility, family. And I got involved with him and he taught me the ropes. I mean, I used to watch him do hijackings. I wasn't allowed to go near the truck. I would just go to the building where they unloaded the truck. And when they unloaded the truck, I met a guy who I thought was really clever. And his name was Jimmy Burke,

which was the same guy that De Niro played. And believe me, I love Jimmy Burke. He was smart. He was smarter than Scorsese painted him. He was slick. I mean, he was a gangster. He was a great guy. One time I had

docked the truck and bought it to Jimmy, we went into the building. He said, I give you $72,000. I don't remember. like South American coats, women's coats. And I go, wait a minute, let's think about this. Let me call Dom. I called Dom in the company. He came back down in an hour, Jimmy said, okay, I'll give you $90,000.

He upped at 18, just like that. So he was the guy who was sharp. He would play the cards. I mean, you know, try to get over on buying stuff because he knew was stolen. And we did well together. Eventually, I was in jail with him. I knew his wife, Mickey. They had guards in the penitentiary with that were corrupt.

I knew his daughter Kathy. His son, Frankie, worked for me. He was a cloth thief. So I knew the family. We were like, thick as thieves. That's what they said. Yeah, no. I mean, so Sal, you really, at the beginning, just started off with gambling.

And then eventually it just led into more and more crimes and bank robberies, heists, and different stuff like that. And in the beginning of this interview, too, you talked about doing white-collar crimes. And, you know, that's what, you know, Matthew was involved with as well. So, I mean, what did that look like? Was that in the earlier years as well, I'm assuming? No, that was the later years of them. I left New York City. I had a million dollars and I went upstate New York about 100 miles.

I built the racetrack. I actually had two stock car races. I spent about a million dollars in three years. Then I was property for them broke. So I went back and said, I'll take a shot. I'll sell cocaine because cocaine in 80, 81, 82 was really hot. I wasn't sure. You know, it's a drug of choice.

And I got busted. So, the Coke came. So, I mean, at that point, how'd you get busted? You know, I got caught with my hand and cookie jar. I had a little blonde girl selling Coke for me. You know, they caught her. They wrung her out. They flipped her.

And then she told him who was giving her the Coke. And oh, my God, this guy's on the triangle up there in Queens with all the other mob guys. But at that point, that was like 84. right around that time I had done a few, you know, computer crimes. One of them happened to be, you know, in competition with God, he didn't know it, but I got involved in a bank scam that was huge. Like, I only got maybe, say, a million, two million. The guys who got the money was the vice president of the bank.

They got 80 million. So they busted the vice president, and they forgot about my million dollars. That was like 1982. too. Well, when I flip with the FBI, I met a guy, I said, what do you do? You're an agent. I'll never forget it. His name was Peyton. And I thought it was Walter Payne because he was black. So I do bank frauds and paper crimes. They go, really? Like, what kind of bank frauds? I said, you over here at the chemical bank where the $80 million was? He's go, yeah. Did you get all the money? Because I was the cooperating witness at the point. He said, we got all of it but about a million.

I go, oh, I said, did you know that that Joel D. Cohen? the coin dealer moved that million he's how would you know that he got all lustered he was guarding me and my agent came in and says come here take a walk with me you just don't ever talk about that again we're going to forget you've mentioned it

but I was very egotistical back to those days I just got to tell the feds say look I got raped a million and by the way God he was involved in that and he was ripping off the guy who could move the money he was only given 10 of 15% when I met the guys

I said, look, I'll give you 50% of the money that you move from that bank to my bank. Because that's amazing. So I gave him 50%. Then we made like, you know, a million, million and a half feet. That was the first time I did any paper crime. That's what I called it. It wasn't like a violent crime. It was a funny crime.

But it wasn't like a crime that where I got excited. I got excited with the gun jumping on the running board of a truck or robbing a bank or something like that. I learned that you could make. a lot of money in the 80s, you know, we could stop the market and all that kind of stuff. But it didn't excite me. So once I flipped and left, I went and found other things and had to make money legitimately. And boy, oh boy, did I have a run. I haven't told anybody those stories, but maybe this year we'll start letting some of that out.

Yeah. Well, I mean, going back to like when you were, you said you were a teenager and you, like, when did you first start getting into you know, basically working with the mob. I mean, at what age, like, you know, we just jumped. We just did a huge long-year jump. When I was 20, when I was 20,

which was 1965, I was 20 years old and 65. My uncle had a gambling operation. So he taught me gambling in New York. In those days, there was no lotto. There was no off-track Betty, you know? So the mob

had like a license. You know, you had bookmaking, and then you had loan sharking, and they had numbers. Once the city and the state started to change all that, the mob lost their power, but they didn't want to admit that. So in my 20s, I got involved with my uncle, which led me to this guy, Catalgo. Dominic Cataldo, he was a professional killer, hitman, and he was a con. He was a con. Of course, he became a maid guy on the carmine person.

So by the time I was 22, 23, I was under his wing. And I was spoken for In those days The boss would know This was after Joe Columbo got shot Which was 72 The boss would know who was with that family And I was officially with the Colombo's

Even though I jockeyed back and forth With John Gotti Which was Gambinos I was officially Listed with the Colombo So Gardy had no power over me I just had to walk a fine line Because he was an interesting guy

you know, he wouldn't take any crap for him. But I played with him. He played with me. He was a lot brighter than most people think. Oh, yeah. To be a boss with crime family. Hell yeah. I mean, those guys said it'd be geniuses. I mean, in the wrong, in the wrong field. But, you know what I mean? You have to be really smart to be a boss in one of them. So I started to do all that stuff, you know, in my 20s. By the time I got, of course, by the time I was 26, my uncle had gone away for bank robbery with Sonny Franzis. They were on this national bank robbery investigation. And it was my dream to rob a bank. So I did rob a bank

with two older guys. It's in the book. One guy was funny. They were both in their 60s. And these guys had been released from Alcatraz. And one guy said, look, we don't have a lot of time to rob the bank because I got diverticulitis. And the other guy said, what the hell do you care? He said, I got colitis. So one guy couldn't take a shit. The other guy was shitting all day lost and they couldn't jump over the counter so we were like a comedic three stooges and i ran in there leaped over the counter 26 scooped up the money and i

eventually learned a lot from them and moved on because you know all they could do is hold guns on everybody in the bank and you know i wanted i wanted more than just 26 000 that was the first bank after that i hit him for 70 80 and in those days matthew no camera no plastic glass plexiglass okay no armed guards and banks and by the way

nobody used credit cards in 1970 70 70s 71 they used like dynist club or something you know so there was one thing in the bank

and they asked why do you rob banks because that's where the money is and that's what I laughed all the way you know we did some tricky stuff

that it was a lot of fun I don't know if you guys recently seen there was in the news they had this like maybe like a few days ago they had posted there was a mafia guys in New York like associates of the Lucchasey family they went and tried to rob a bank or not a bank but a jewelry store and what had happened was they all got busted literally I think you know the next day they had phone calls they had all this stuff and boom I mean the stuff sounds talking about I mean you can't do this you can't get away with it unless you're some super tech I mean, this stuff doesn't exist anymore, but... No, I mean, too many cameras, man, on every block, you know? And that's why these stories are so insane. I don't know what you did, but you probably did paper crimes. But how long ago was that? How many years?

It was probably what, about roughly 18 years ago. Oh, yeah, a lot different. Yeah, we didn't have Google then. I don't know. Yeah, well, so Matthew, do you want to kind of start talking about his involvement with the Sinatra Club and with? Yeah, at what point, what were you doing? So that was in your early 20s. You're saying now, you know, when did you get involved in the Sinatra Club?

Did you open the club or? Here's what happened. I got shot by a cop. I was driving a corvette and he tried to pull me over. And I went past him, he shot in the back window of the corvette. went into my spine. So I had to get a surgery to get the bullet out. When I came out, my

arm was in a sling. Cattaldo picked me up. He said, oh, let's go see these guys over in this little club they got. It was only like 10, 20 blocks from where I live. I said, whose club is it? Oh, it's Danny and Charlie Faticos. I go, oh, he's in the Goddies hang out

there, but nobody knew who John Gotti was in 71. So we go there, and I see this scurvy little place, dirty tables, Mixed up chairs, you know, stinky place. And we left. And I said, hey, damn, why don't we open up a nice little club? I'll get, because I had money.

I was dealing drugs. We were living, Cataldo and I were living a secret within a secret. Because you weren't supposed to tell anybody you were dealing drugs, but we were, him and I. So we had a lot of money, and always may believe I made another score and had pockets full of money. So I went and got this little building. I put nice chairs in, nice tables. And on Monday night, in the fall of 71, football, NFL football was 9 o'clock at night.

And everybody would gather to pay off your weekly debts or winnings, collect, pay, whatever. And we would meet at the Sinatra Club in exchange, you know, who won, who lost. And after the 9 o'clock game went on, because it was network TV, there was no such thing as cable in New York. We'd watch the game and play 10-cent, 20-cent poker.

Well, the 10-20-cent poker went to 50 cents, and then they opened up a dollar table. Buried by the U.S. government and ignored by the national media, this is the story they don't want you to know. When Frank Amadeo met with President George W. Bush at the White House to discuss NATO operations in Afghanistan, no one knew that he'd already embezzled nearly $200 million from the federal government. Money he intended to use to bankroll his plan to take over the world. From Amadeo's global headquarters in the shadow of Florida's Disney World, with a nearly inexhaustible supply of the Internal Revenue Services funds, Amadeo acquired multiple businesses, amassing a mega conglomerate.

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It's insanity. The bizarre, true story of a bipolar megalomaniacs in danger. insane plan for total world domination. Available now on Amazon and audible. By the time, I want to say by the time January came, we had three tables. I had good catered food in there, good booze, and I had a couple of fine, working professional women a block away, and the guys could go visit the girls. It was like, I was sort of taking a leave from Vegas, how they treat again.

homeless and babies. And that place ran until February of 72, and that's when Gotti came out. Well, Gotti had made such an impression on other guys, especially drug deals. Not that he was dealing drugs. They liked him. And he started bringing all these guys in. He said, look, I'm bringing all these players in. Some of them are high rollers. So we said, Dominic Catalgo, so let's give you a piece of the action. So we gave him 20% of the game. So if we cut 5,000 for the week, he got a thousand. Basically, he got money to gamble, and he blew it anyway every week.

He wasn't a good card player. He was a terrible gambler, by the way. In contrast to Jimmy Burke, who was a great gambler. Jimmy Burke should have been in Vegas. He could count every card. Brilliant guy. I love the guy. And he had a stone face and it was hard

to beat him. So, God, he, you know, he wasn't a good gamble, but we had a lot of fun. And a lot of crime took place there. meeting of all kinds of guys. I mean, guys that came in there, the famous informant Willie Boy Johnson sat at the table who Gotti eventually had killed. I mean, he was given information to the feds for like 20 years.

We had all kinds of people there. It was really an interesting mix, and it was only a block and a half from where I lived. My Sinatra Club was on 87th Street. Godi's Club was on 100, let me see, a hundred and, I think it was 108th Street, so he was like 15 blocks away. But the neighborhood had several clubs with different families

out in their club, but my, I had the Colassius club. I had nice chairs, nice tables. And I called Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants, and brought in catered food to feed the guys. Yeah, and Matthew, the whole premise of the Sinatra Club is that there's, it was important because there was always these internal wars going on with all the five crime families in New York or there's beefs between other factions and families and stuff like that.

But they would always come to the Sinatra Club that Salad opened up with his partner, Dominic Coutto, and they would all get along there. They'd gamble. They'd set up certain different crimes, heist, whatever they wanted to do. And they'd just get along there. So, I mean, it was a- It was a neutral spot. It was a church.

Yeah, sleep out. Yeah. How did you come up with the Sinatra Club? Why? Oh, that's a great question. So we had this one guy there who was about 300 pounds. And we started to play, like, you know, for a couple hours. Then it started to get into by the winter.

We'd stay the 18, 20 hours. Well, this guy was about 300 pounds, and he never washed. He stumped. So I'd bring him a can of Wright God. And he was a fat guy, and I called him Roundy. I go roundy, go in the bathroom, spray yourself. I know you can't miss a hand. He don't want to miss any hand.

So eventually, you know, his mother would call. We had a pay phone in there and called. They go around here, it's your mother. Ma, what do you want? What do you want? She's, where are you? I haven't been to home for two days. Where are you?

And he looked over and there was a jukebox that we had put in there. I had one of the guys steal the jukebox who came from a Polish bar. I said, get rid of those, you know, Buffet or whoever was the Polish fingers. And Sinatra had retired, so go buy all these Sinatra records and stick it in there. and you know the top would come up you didn't have to pay he looked over at the few bucks and ma i'm at the sinatra club and that's working so we can't get to be laughing yeah it's a good thing for this place the sonatra club and that that roundy he was uh what was it uh carmine galante's nephew or something yeah yeah he was the wise guy's nephew and uh yeah he

was the character i mean a lot of these guys got killed along the way after i mean i close the Sinatra, I went to federal prison. So we had it for three years. But it was three years of like Disneyland, man. Disneyland for the mob. I mean, you know, it was funny. It was a funny place. Every week there would be stolen merchandise, all kinds of things going on there. You know, the only thing we didn't allow any women in there. So they were down the block. Yeah. So, well, I was going to say, you just reminded me of something. I wish I could remember his name. the guy, they called him the chin. He used to walk around.

Prince in the chair. Yeah, crazy. Crazy. Yeah. So one of the guys underneath him was my sally. For like two months, he was called a lamb or somebody like that or I forget. I want to, I forget his name. He had gone to prison for, well, first of all, he went to prison for like three or four years.

and then just as he was about to get out the feds re-indicted him on like tax evasion or something and so he went for another he had to do another like four years I think he'd only been arrested one time and I remember

he was listen he was he was the coolest guy you know of course he's in you know he's locked up he's got, you know, they've got, he's got somebody cooking for him, so three people are going to commissary, he's buying everything out of the kitchen, you know, I mean, he's got money, but he's got nothing to do.

So that was Vincent, Vincent Chaganty was the thing, the chin. Oh, okay. But, but it was, yeah. Matthew's talking about someone that was a cellmate that was under Vincent. Right. I'm not sure. I can't believe I can't remember his name. He was the coolest

guy. Where were you? Which one? I was in Coleman. Coleman Federal This was in the low At the Coleman and the low Wow And he'd just been Reindicted

Like he'd been re-indicted Like he had maybe a year or two to go Anyway he I just I always remember he said He said I I'm only app But prior to this

This arrest He said I have only been arrested One time Wow And they dropped the charges And I was like Well I said why'd they drop the charges

He said you know he said this guy he said i owned a construction company and he said one of the guys that owned the construction company or what sorry one of the guys that worked at the construction company had lent money and the guy one of the guys wasn't paying what couldn't pay the money and he said oh well i forget the guy's name let's say it's john or anthony let's say he goes well you just wait till anthony finds out he is and because the he is well the guy got scared and went to the feds and the state and got wired

up. He said, came back and said, well, what if I don't pay? What's Anthony going to do? He said, oh, listen, he said, you don't want to know what the answer to he's going to do. And he went on and on and he's going to do this. He's going to have, get your, whatever, break your fingers or do something. And so he

then, so they went out and got an indictment, grabbed the guy that made the threat. So they've got all these guys. They've got the main guy who wore the wire. They had the guy that said Anthony's going to hurt him. And so they come and they surround this guy's house. And he wasn't even at the house.

He said, I was at my girlfriend's house. He said, my wife calls me at my girlfriend's house and say, hey, you're fucking house is surrounded. So he's all right, all right, go out there. He's called the lawyer. Tell him I'll turn myself in, you know, Monday. So he said on Monday, I turn myself in. I get right back out. And I said, so what happened?

He said, yeah, he said, they dropped there. they had to drop the charges like four or five six months later i said why and he goes you know that guy that the guy that the guy that wore the wire and i said right he said he uh he had like an accident oh no he went over an accident and he goes i said what do you mean an accident he said um you know they they i said like like he got hit by a car accident he said ah they they found him in tears they found him in a dumpster. Well, was he a garbage man? I said, like, you know,

they slip and fall in the compactor and ended up in the dumpster? Or he said, you know, you know, Matt, I like you. He said, but, you know, when you wear wires back then on people, he said, you know, you tended to have accidents. Yeah. He said, he had an accident. They dropped the charges. Because then I got arrested like 20 years later.

And he said, for this fucking thing. Yeah. Yeah, no, they got their humor like Sal had said, like John Gotti and his brother, Gene or one of them, you know, just the same thing. I mean, they just had, they were really, they just moved on with life after doing something like that. Yeah, John was, John was extremely witty. He's a very witty guy, he was. And he was always the head of everybody else. They would just, you know, they'd follow.

him and I mean even the older guys who were made guys they trusted him they really trusted him completely and they bought into his visions which was you know cool he wasn't a drug dealer but he was around all these drug dealers and they all gave him money but he was a gambler a bad gambler so he could lose a lot of money and this guy could lose 50 or 100 thousand dollars on a weekend betting football games you know no kidding I mean Matthew, so you were bringing up some stories about prison and the commissary and everything. Do you want Sal? Because he was kind of at that point where he had got arrested.

But in prison, he kind of had the same situation with like, comest. Oh, listen, back then they had it way better than we have. Yeah. Like you guys could do some, like, it's practically state prison where I was at. Yeah. So when, so after the Sinatra called, what, did you get arrested during that time? I mean. No, I got out.

I won a case. I only did like 12 or 13 months. I got 25 years, and I manipulated the system. It actually set a law in federal court in the Eastern District of New York. And when I got out, I had met some guys in prison that was simply genius. I'm telling you, a guy who's the funniest guy, every once in a while I would do a rendition about it. And he was actually the subject for Bronx tail. And his name was Fat Gigi Inglis. Louis Inglis. Big heavy-sac guy like this, like 300 pounds.

And how I got his attention was, I was in Lewisburg Penitentiary, but outside they had the farm. And a friend of mine she had a brother-in-law that was on the farm. And so my

wife would drive up with his wife and I'd say, buy some Dunhill cigars. In those days, three or four dollars was a lot of money for a cigar. It was like a, you know, Cuban cigar. So Frankie outside the wall would come in for lunch and he'd hear me four or five cigars. Well, I'd take this one cigar and go over and see Fat Gigi. This is a guy who made mega, mega millions.

He was part of the Purple Gang, okay? And he would sit outside. It was a nice day out. He'd turn the chair around, smoked the cigar. He'd be making love to this cigar, like a cigar. prison was like, look, you're in prison, you know, and he would tell me stories, amazing stories. I got some of them. It'd take me half an hour to tell a story, but what happened was my name was Lubas, which meant crazy in Italian. He goes, Lubas. He says, you're 28 years old.

What are you going to do when you get out of here? Now, he had a, he had a Harlem accent, different from Brooklyn. When the Harlem guys from the Bronx talk, they spit. He go, hey, fuck the new boss. What are you going to do when you're going to do when you're get out of here. Got this big belly smoking a cigar, ruling, right? I go, I don't know. He's but you hijacked trucks you. Well, banks, you got to give that up.

You've got to move ahead to what? You got to invest. Invest in what? In a spoon and a strainer. And you mix drugs. You can get drugs for 5,000 an ounce. You can bring back 40,000. You can step on at 18 times.

These guys were professional drug dealers. This guy would. in the middle of Harlem, I mean, they dealt with Frank Lucas and the gang up there. So I said, oh, really? I said, well, I said, well, who would I look for you? When you get out, don't worry, I'll set you up, you know? Well, I thought about it. And once I found out my friend Foxy, my client partner was killed by the Tommy D. Simone guy, that was it.

No more guns, no more robberies. I immediately went into drug business. Now, in 75, 76, it might not sound like a lot of money. I was making $25,000 a week cash. That sounds like a lot of money. That was a brand new Chevy was $3,500. The Lincoln was $8,000. A portion was $12,000.

So $25,000 a week, I could buy an house every other week. But he was right. Bad Gigi was right. That's where the money was the drugs. And it was heroin. And I learned the business. I mean, never got busted for heroin. Never.

But anyway, you know, I was doing all kinds of things. Right. And a Corvette shop. I owned 11 Corvettes, a Porsche, two jewelry stores, a real estate business, never got busted, never. So I did that for about all five, six, seven years, and I wanted to get out of New York City. So I bought 100 acres upstate New York, and I built a racetrack. That's about a million dollars up there. But it wasn't meant for me to make money in the racetrack.

In those days, nobody even knew what NASCAR was in 1980s. It was just starting to get on television. and you know I was living the thing I found out you probably could identify with this Matthew you make a lot of money legally and you're spending and spending and spending and spending once you stop making the money

if you don't stop spending you're going to go backwards quick right you know the old expression was yeah I was dealing drugs and then what happened I started to eat like a bird and shit like an elephant everything's going

out and it's coming in so yeah you learned your lessons you know it was an interesting life i left new york about that time though god he was making the move and i was still around him i still knew all those guys and uh they were moving up they were whacking out guys he was already made he came a captain by the time 84 came it wasn't long before you had visions of taking over the whole family which he did the following year at 85 by that time i had already went into the program testified against the judge. I was sitting in Texas.

What happened with that? How did that come about? Well, I had this judge that I used to pay off in Queens. If I got arrested, I'd pay the judge off and throw the case out. Or I went to another judge. We had judges that were taking money. We could do anything we wanted there in state court, not federal. Right.

So I got busted, and I went to the feds. I said, look, because I could fix that case. It was a cocaine case in the state of New York. I'll fix this case, and I'll do it while you guys wire me up. I don't need you, because I could beat this case. But I went out of New York when kids were teenagers. I got to get them out of New York. And I did that undercover.

He got busted. He went to jail, the judge. I went to the witness protection program, and the moron U.S. Marshals put me down in Texas. And they said, well, this is where you should be. You've got to blend it. I don't fuck it's in New York and I'm gonna blend in Texas

I felt like Cousiniti you know in the South so I had a hard time doing that both my kids were good athletes and I was hanging out thinking I was done with the government but once you learn

that the government had a contract and he said I had to peer you know any trials just about that time the year went by after God he killed Castellano okay and they had a RICO case on them.

And he said, they brought me up to Detroit. They interviewed me for three days. You're going to be the first witness in a Goddy, racketeering RICO case. I go, you can know you're the best storyteller. We got in New York. They go. All right, so I go to New York, and the case opens up in the fall of 86. And I'm watching what's going on.

I go downstairs secretly in the course. house with two-way mirrors and I see these two limousines back up in the garage. And I'm waiting for the van, take me out, ride me out in New Jersey. I see all the jurors getting in the limousine. The next morning I went up to the prosecutor

and you guys, morons are what? You got all the jurors riding the limousine. You don't think John Gotti's going to reach one of those jerks. He's going to pay off a juror, a bride room, and he's going to win this case. Sal, you're looking at too much television. And that's exactly what

happened. I predicted it. And of course, years later, Sammy Sammy the Bull told the story. That's exactly what they did. They paid off a witness 60 G's and got he became a superstar. Yeah, you did. He was a public figure. The public loved him and I mean, you know, and the mob loved him. And there I was down in Texas for the next few years and I got involved in Hollywood. Quietly, I used a Jewish name. I started writing. I was good at it. I got I sold a couple of scripts. I work with great writers.

I had a lot of fun, you know. I slept with the first wife, got a young gal, got her, got a daughter, got a new son. And I was inventing toys and doing all kinds of legal stuff. I didn't do anything legal after they gave me a new name. Never, never again. Never again. And had one. What was the new name?

I don't tell anybody that name. How long, though, how long did you go under that, that, that, name? Well, I went under that name for years until I started doing some interviews and using my real name, Salvador Polici. So I would go, you know, use my real name in Hollywood. I got involved with really cool actors. I mean, I was friends with Ernest Pogneye before he died. I mean, I met a lot of cool people. I got, I got a lot of respect there because they, they said, this guy is the real chilly palma. If you remember the kid, Jordi, yeah. They said, He's coming to our party.

Meet this guy. He's the real Philly Palmer. And that's what they called me. Silly is it was funny. Just goofy stuff happened. And I had a big personality, so I had fun. You know, I made mistakes in that business. I wrote the scripts in Hot For Club.

A guy got a whole of it. And I went to a party and he says, give me this script. I'll give you a quarter of a million. You wrote this as a drama. It's not a drama. I go, what do you mean? He's you're a funny guy. This could be funnier than my blue heaven.

and he had won the Academy Award for the Sting Give me this script Give me And the wife I was with at that time She said no I don't give it to him Two 50 is nothing We didn't get rich

I didn't give him the script And then we waited years And we wound up making the movie Sinatra Club for peanuts And you know It didn't come out the way It should have came out So I made mistakes

I turned down David Chase I met David Chase Two years before the Sopranos aired They haven't told him a bunch of stories It's come work for us You could be a technical advisor And I met the two people that were writing for him They started with nothing

They made good money And then recently they got very, very rich They created blue blood Husband and wife You know, the Tom Seller thing Yeah, right Yeah, they got rich Nice people

They were real pro writers But I didn't want to be working for somebody else. I want to do it myself. Hollywood is Hollywood's a crazy place. But I have a lot of fun. I learned the business, got involved with some production companies, got involved with some directors. And eventually I got the money to make the Sinatra Club, which was no money. You know, it's like a million bucks. That was nothing. Nowadays, Tom Cruise uses two million to eat. I mean, you know. Yeah. I mean, it was kind of interesting in his situation too, Matthews, because with the Sinatra Club,

but he had made the movie and then wrote the book about it. And usually his vice. Yeah. Yeah, the movie got me a book deal. Yeah, I was going to say it's, well, one, it's funny because I, you mentioned Ernest Bourdine. I actually just watched Escape from New York a few days ago. Yeah. But the other thing is, I was going to say that it's funny how many guys that are involved in crime,

put a prison, get out, and then get involved in the movie business. I met a guy who was the Cuban guy. He came in to read for us for Sonatzbo, the little part. They had like two lines, big, heavy-set guy. And he came in, he said, do I have to read the sides? You know, when you're casting, you give them a piece of paper, a couple of lines. They read. I said, no, what's your name?

He said, Joey. Do what you want. Just let me do my stick. The guy was amazing. Nobody knew him 14 years ago. It's Joey Diaz. The comedian, yeah. And now, we've been friends for years.

He calls me, invites me to his shows, you know. Joey is the cool guy. He's from, and if you ever saw his show, you'll laugh your ass off. But I did a appearance with him at the Pasadena Ice House. I couldn't believe how fast he is. I mean, he was like Robin William Fast. You know, amazing, quickly, you know, interacting with the audience. He brought me up.

I gave him a book. And I just got the book out. signed and he goes, hey, come on, you guys stop buying. We see a woman over there, I get off. She says, hey, I just bought your book online. It was like, oh, my God, I'm selling books in a comedy club, you know, but he's a great guy. You know, we've been

friends forever. You'll probably come on our show. I just like the guy. He's a for real guy, you know, because you grew up with Italians, he's really a Cuban guy. He plays a good Italian. I was going to say there's tons of like TikTok clips of him and Joe Rogan, and every time I watch

him, he's, you know. He's a He's hilarious. He's hilarious. Yeah. I met him, you know, in nine, eight or nine. We did the movie in nine, ten. And then I lived four blocks from him. And he had a show back then called Beauty and the Beast or something. And he would call me without coffee. He says, hey, you know what? I think my girl's going to have a baby. I go, really? And so he had a daughter. And then last week I talked to him. I go, hey, where are you? I don't know yet. What is your daughter doing? Playing softball. She's 10. I go, oh, my God, where'd those 10 years go?

I mean, you know, he's back in New York, and he's just a nice guy who's very, very creative. He's really a great guy on stage. Do you ever see him on stage? No. I mean, I'm in Tampa, Florida. I'm not sure he gets to Tampa, Florida very much. He's all over the country, yeah. It's all over.

Yeah, if he did, I would. That's for damn sure. Yeah, nice guy, though. He just never forgot. I said, hey, you've got to have that part, man. I get him a little part, and then he did a movie with him. to narrow he started getting some movie roles you know and you don't

forget people when you meet them you know he's a good guy um yeah he uh so how long so I don't so you were only

you only lived under the witness protection name for what five or six years oh no no I got the name in 85 and then I split with my first wife 87, met this young gal. I was with her 19 years. So I did 19 years with that

new name. So I'd be I would be in the Bay area with the new name, go to L.A. and use the old name, make believe I'm chilly Palmer. You don't drive down in LA. I mean, one of my best friends wrote Stan Lott. And the guy's an amazing writer. So he liked me.

We became friends. And I always got jobs. Hey, come on. I'll give you a couple thousand a week, come up to Vancouver. We're going to shoot Sandlot too. And I know the guy for 20 years. You know, we're just friends. You know, you meet people. You strike up a friendship. You know, you don't play any games with them. It's interesting because, you know, Hollywood, you know, the mob will kill you with a gun. Hollywood don't beat you to death with a pencil. I mean, overall, though, I mean, everything that, you know, we talked about today, I mean, it's just it's a whole different error so when people think about all these stories and stuff

you got to keep in mind like you know like he said google didn't exist uh you know cameras and all that kind of crap so that's why he was able to do this kind of stuff i mean salz turned his life around i mean he's not in that you know doesn't have that same mindset he never did any crime after i didn't see this stuff matthew as valuable podcast about 12 or 13 years ago a guy came to me. He was a big radio producer. He said, I heard that you change your ways in life and you used to be a bigot and a

racist and all this stuff. I go, oh, yeah. My two kids, you know, growing up, I taught them the right thing. I never used any, you know, racist comments and stuff. We want, and he says, you were once homophobic. I go, yeah, there's a lot of things. I was taught this crap.

I said, but I did a speaking engagement at a editing house. It was about 100 people changing their career. to become editors. And I talked about change, like massive change. And this radio producer says, I want you to go on a show with this woman. I talk to her about you. I go, yeah, who is it?

And it turns out that she was, I kind of always forget her name. She won Academy Award. She's a singer. She's a lesbian. God, everybody knows him. But so I went and I did her show. And we talked about change. And what the heck was the name again?

Gosh, I did about an hour with her, you know? I go, I don't make a lot of changes. It wasn't just for me, for my kids. What? Oh, Melissa Etheridge. There it is. She said, boy, I wouldn't have been in a room with you, an Italian, you know, an Italian racist and homophobic.

I go, well, I had to give all that up when I got a new name, and I changed it from my way. Can I come? your house for spaghetti. But, you know, you never know who you're going to meet in the life in Hollywood and stuff. You know, I made a lot of good friends.

Unfortunately, I was too old when I got there. I mean, I should have been there at 25. No, I got there at 50, you know. But I got some stuff done. We had fun. I still got energy. And I got a thousand stories, legitimate ones and illegitimate.

You know, Matthew B. Cox is a conman. incarcerated in the Federal Bureau of Prisons for a variety of bank fraud-related scams. Despite not having a drug problem, Cox inexplicably ends up in the prison's residential drug abuse program, known as Ardap. A drug program in name only. Ardap is an invasive behavior modification therapy, specifically designed to correct the cognitive thinking errors associated with criminal behavior. The program is a non-fiction dark comedy, which chronicles Cox's side-splitting journey. This first-person account is a fascinating glimpse at the survivor-like atmosphere inside of the government-sponsored rehabilitation unit.

While navigating the treachery of his backstabbing peers, Cox simultaneously manipulates prison policies and the bumbling staff every step of the way. The program. How a conman survived the third. Federal Bureau of Prisons, cult of Ardap, available now on Amazon and Audible. Yeah, it's funny when I went into prison, you know, I went into prison and I, and what I did in prison was I wrote stories. I just wrote, started writing guys stories down. You know, if I, if you had an interesting story, I would research it. I'd order the Freedom of Information Act. I'd order your case file. I'd order, well, everything and just start putting it together. And some of them

were books, I wrote about 24, 23, 24 synopses of stories, like maybe 10, 12,000 words, you know. And, like, that's one of the things I do now. But while I was writing these stories in prison, guys kept telling me, as I got closer to the door, they were like, bro, you got to you got to do a podcast. Well, when I got locked up, there was no such thing as a podcast. Right. Like, YouTube had been out for like a year. Yeah. You know, Facebook had just come out maybe six months before I got arrested. So I'm like, what's a podcast?

Like people are like, you know, a podcast. Like, no, I don't. They don't even realize that, that word was invented. You know what I'm saying? That wasn't a common thing. Right. They made. So I started reading articles and got out and said, oh, okay, yeah, I should do a podcast when

I get it. And, you know, they were saying, oh, true crime's huge, you know, like, what's true crime? What are he talking about? They're like writing real crime stories. recently. Yeah. Like I didn't even know what I was doing. I was doing it.

I was already doing this kind of in prison before. Yeah. I didn't even know it. You know the same thing. Then you get out. And I get the whole Hollywood, you know, beating you up with a pen. Like I've had multiple things like stolen. I've had, you know, you're watching a TV show and you realize that the producer

ripped your stuff off and went back. Right. Right. Right. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I've had A lot of copycatch You remember the movie They did about the four seasons

What the hell was that name again? It was a big hit movie It was about Frankie Valley in the four seasons It was on stage It became a movie and everything I can't think of the name of it It was very popular

About 10, 15 years ago Well, I'm watching the movie With my wife And I go, did you hear that? They said what? I said they ripped off One of our ideas or one of the things we did, she goes, what's that?

I go, we were hijacking so many trucks. We would get information from the guys who worked at Kennedy Airport. So we would get especially Italian goods, okay? Well, we hijacked a truck full of Italian shoes. When I got it over to Jimmy Burke, I would call up because we had to drop the drivers off. I had to hold him for an hour and a half. He said, come over quickly. You got a problem.

I go over to the, they call it the drop, the building where the truck was in. He had these shoes laid out He's got the guy coming The Jewish guys come to look at these Beautiful Italian shoes You got a problem I go what's the problem Did you look at the shoes

How can I look at the shoes We rub the truck Now we're looking at them You got 8,000 pairs of shoes But they're all left That what? They're all left Where's the rights

They're gonna put it on another truck probably They didn't want you to get all the shoes So they sent the left And the rights are going in another truck What the hell did you do with that? Yeah, that was the 70s. We threw the stuff away. In the movie with Frankie Valley in the four seasons, they mentioned the shoes.

I mean, it was, I lived it. So they decided to put, oh, yeah, we got all kinds of contacts. We get stolen merchandise. Sometimes we got all left shoes from Italy. But that actually happened to us, you know. So, yeah, they take your stuff and they use it. That's just the way it is. Seth, be careful with it.

Yeah, I was, like I always say, look, I'd rather deal with guys in Hollywood and rather deal with guys in prison than guys in Hollywood. Exactly. And if something goes wrong, you know, it could go wrong for the person, you know, fucking you over. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? In Hollywood, they just, you know, oh, well, you know, that just happened. Yeah. It's always, yeah, it's a, that's a rough, it's a rough business.

Yeah, yeah, it is. I don't have that rough than crime. Yeah, I don't have any. interesting going Hollywood. I mean, I'd like to sell the rights. You know, we stole the rights to one book. We turned down the rights. I got a big interview coming up with Netflix. It's not coming out for another month or two. And there's huge, huge interview. And I went to New York last year. And when I sat down with the producers from Netflix, I said, what do you guys want? She goes, you know, you're one of the few guys left that could talk about John Gotti. And so suppose I tell you what he did in 1972. Suppose I give you

the conversations. There's no way. That's 49 years ago, 50 years ago. Turned the camera on and we did about an hour with that. How did you remember that stuff? You can't forget. It's something you don't want to forget. It was like fun. You know, it was a game. We were playing a game like, you know, and I gave them that interview. I don't know how much they used, you know, because it's a, you know, they're going to edit stuff out, but it's all good stuff. So, you know, stuff that no one else We can mention what the show is, right, Sal? Yeah, Fear City.

It's season two, I then believe it is. And they cover the mafia, different families and stuff. And yeah, so they got Sal on there making their appearance. And I think they had on the first season, like John A light, Michael Francie's, yeah, guys like that. And it was really good.

I enjoyed it. So Sal has that coming out. They were pretty secretive. One day I said to the producer, I want to know one thing. Did you get Anthony Ruggiano and interview? Oh, we can't tell you. So then I reached out. I heard Anthony.

So then she said to me a text message. Boy, oh, boy, you guys are like thickest thieves. He knew you and you knew him. Yeah, well, please don't tell anybody else. We got him also. So, you know, I mean, it was interesting how they think they're doing secretive stuff on television. But it leaks out. Was it John A-Light?

I had him on and I had him too what about what what's the oh shoot Michael Michael Dowd yeah the corrupt cop I watched the one that you did I did I did I did get a call once from FBI years ago when a light you know came out sort of like he wanted to go straight and he said look could you mention this guy you know I said I don't have a problem with him but every once in a while he talks about John Godden John A-Light was about 10, 12 years old when we had to start the club. How could he know any of this? He's a good research himself.

I don't bad mouth anybody. I just let it go. You know, it's okay. Oh, listen, I did a, every interview. I did two interviews with him. The comments section, they hate. I've never seen anybody get so much hate. Really?

I mean, they just hammer him, hammer away at him. he's really nice to me he's polite to me he was seemed like a nice guy but then again I wouldn't know what's true and what's not true right right we weren't there Sal was but I wasn't there me and Matthew we weren't there so I mean we're deep with talking about Cuba and being friends with Batista I'd be like oh okay I don't know he he got a conversation with Trump didn't he

oh yeah there's a picture of them yeah yeah him and Trump took a picture together and then Trump also took one with uh Joey Merlino, the alleged boss of the Philadelphia. I was in prison with Joey Marlino. I had lunch with him a couple of times and, you know, quiet, nice guy, kept himself. Yeah. Well, I mean, it seemed like a nice guy, you know.

I do like to talk about the guys that I met in Lewisburg. I'm going to do a presentation for Adrian because I think it's really a stage play. It's so good because all the guys were there They ran the prison And if you remember in Goodfellas When Paulie was slicing the garlic I was in that room But the guys that were there

Were old school Oh God, they were old school You know How did I know I was going to play chess With Phil Chick and Phil Tester Who later was blown up In Philadelphia And then what's his name?

Did a song on him What the hell is his name? I can't recall Atlantic City album. The famous singer, you know, so who would know that in Louisburg that year there was a dozen

guys that movies were going to be done about like Frank Lucas. Right. You know? And it was just interesting that at the time, those people, nobody knew who they were and where they were going. Henry was in prison

with me. I mean, I just the laugh at Henry. Henry's assignment was to steal meat out of the butcher show. Bring it to Paul. I mean, you know, it was just a way of way. And there was no telephones in prison that year. They didn't get this, 75. And the most exciting three days of my prison time

was on the 8th of August when Nixon got up and resigned. And he said, I'm not a crook. We all ran around the prison block, looking at each other like, I'm Spartacus, I'm Spartacus, I'm Spartacus, I'm not. a crook and we laughed because we knew he was a crook i mean that stuff built him down then two days later there was an escape in louisburg it was the first escape ever and it was a guy there who skyjacked an airplane they thought he was d b cooper and he later went to north carolina and the feds

killed him he was a bank robber so it was pretty exciting being there looking at all the stuff that was going on and all the guys that were there i mean there was legendary guys from what they called a purple game from Holland. I mean, you had every group you can imagine from New York, because it was the beginning of drug sentences, like big time, 10 years, 20 years. Bad Gigi,

Inglis. I said, Gigi, you don't talk about your time. No, nobody can fucking talk about my time. I'm doing 56 fucking years. I don't want to hear about a guy who's doing five years. And eventually, he had the cases thrown out and he got released, but bigger than life guy. I mean, I can tell you, I'm sorry,

about him for 20, 30 minutes, you'd shake your head. He was just an amazing guy. I mean, he's just, the things that he did on the street were legendary. And so that's why Chas Palma Thoree put him in Bronxdale. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, and so essentially, yes, he was, Sal had was in prison with a lot of guys. I mean, there was a lot of from, you know, the five New York crime families, of course.

And then surprisingly, too, a lot of guys from the Philadelphia crime family that would go on to be in a lot of internal wars and be high-level ranking guys. So Sal got to be around them when they're really young and experience what they were like and stuff like that. And it's just crazy. I mean, where he was at and how, what a big coincidence that he ended up there with all them at the same time. That fact, G.G. said to me, when you leave here,

because I had an appeal working, I knew I was going to win. I won my appeal. I mean, I got 25 years and I do one year. He said, when you leave it, just remember one thing. don't ever look like don't ever think prison is the Department of Corrections I go what do you call it

it's the Department of Connections this is where you make all your connections I'm bloody Listen I used to say I went into prison with like a GED and fraud and walked out with a master's degree Like Yeah

You learn a lot I know a lot Yeah There's a lot of smart guys There's a lot of smart guys in that. And you go, well, gee, he's so smart. How do you get busted? Well, same old story. Yeah, everybody's going to get

busted. Yeah. Well, uh, do you want, I mean, do you have anything else you want to throw at them before we, I suppose, I mean, I guess we're almost to that hour. Ask me whatever, Matthew. I know. I thought I don't have anything. I'm, I'm, I'm, what,

it's so funny because I'm sitting here and as we're talking about this, I'm thinking that would make a good TikTok real. That would make a good TikTok, you know. That's what I did a few minute story. That's a good three minutes. But, no, I was just thinking when I went to, I was at the medium security prison in Coleman for about three years. And I remember when I first got there, I was sitting at the, I was sitting at a table one time with these guys.

And, you know, and they're just, it was like when I first got there, like, you know, everybody's pretty quiet. And I forget what happened. Somebody said, I don't know. know what I don't know what I said but I ended up saying yeah man I got 26 years and well because I did I had 26 years and I remember somebody goes yeah that's a that's a that's a that's a good bit of time I got 30 years and and I and I turn around and the got another guy black guy sitting across from me looked up at me and he goes I'm never leaving oh my and I thought stop complaining about your I'm.

Nobody. How much time did you do out of the 26th? 13. I did 13, about almost 13 years. Oh, yeah. But paper crime? Yeah. Oh, my God.

I was a make for 13 months. Oh, boy. Wow. Very upset with me. Oh, best. Wow. You make restitution? No, I still owe 6 million, but I'm good for it.

Oh, that's good. I'm making payment. Yeah, I heard a guy. I heard a guy once, you know, they said you owe how many $3 million? And the judge said, well, when are you going to start paying? He said, I'll pay, pay soon, you know. But it probably takes me the rest of my life. How much you plan on sending in every month?

He's $25. Yeah. Oh, man. You owe all that money and Michael doesn't know anything. I'm just crazy how that works man he got a deal he got a deal but I got to tell you one thing

I've never told this story before you know because the mob prison life criminals you know you got the good the bad the ugly you know and I had two kids who I love and I never once struck them two kids who grew up to be football players you know

and I had this stockbroker in the 70s he would come over on Wednesday night because I had bogus names in the stock market, I'd give him 10,000, 20,000, 30,000. I was the junkie because I played puts and calls. I was gambling with the stock market because I thought it was sophisticated. I thought I was cool. He would come home on Wednesday. My first wife would make a nice Italian dinner and they'd be there at 6. We'd eat at 637. He'd stay an hour or so I'll give me an old more money and that would be that. So it was probably in the fall. I remember

this. And my kid was 10 years old, my oldest son. I said to my wife, we're Sal Junior? I don't know. So came time for dinner. We got to eat dinner. Jim is here. Let's have dinner. So we had dinner.

He comes in. He's 10 years old. Like two hours later. Filty dirty. Do you know anything about New York? Nothing. Do you know anything about New York? Have you ever heard of Coney Island?

Yeah. Yeah. And that's where they have the hot dog contest. I go, what were you doing? He said, I was helping, like, friend Joey, his father was cleaning the garage. I go, Joey, Joey's the bill? And his father was cleaning the garage. He says, yeah, he's cleaning the garage. I said, come here. I slapped him in the face like, like that. I said, you lying little

shit, you weren't by Joey's house. How do you know, dad? They found Joey last year in the back seat of a car with two bullets in his head. Damn. Now, tell the truth, where were you? I went to Cody Island, I was riding the Ferris wheel. So that was in 78. I got to tell you, like years later, I bought him a brand new Trans Am, he went to college, he played college football, and one day he disappeared.

I called him up, I go, where were you? Dad, oh, is that Joey's house? Don't ask, you know. That's one of the funny stories about being an Italian father, never struck the kids, just one slap. And I said, don't know the lie again. He never lied to me against.

It's all it took. I said, no, when Joey's father was whacked, and guess what? Joey's uncle, they found him in the backseat of the car. He was whacked. The whole family got whacked out. They were doing bad things. I'm so sorry you did 13 years. Oh, my God.

I'm in the Irish. I try to, you know, listen, the, you know what the problem is I, you know, And I started off and I was complaining, right? I got, I got 12 years knocked off my sentence. So technically, I'm supposed to be in prison right now. My outdate, my outdate was 2030. That didn't have to happen. I was lucky.

I'm glad. I mean, I, I did everything I could to get those off. Yeah. But, you know, the truth is, do I, I think, you know, I don't think, I deserve to go to prison. I don't think I deserved, I probably deserve 10 years, but... Not that, that's too much time. But it's not well, with game time, maybe I would have done on five or six, but the bottom line is that, you know, like, you don't get to make that choice.

Like, it's not up to me. And the other thing is that, you know, honestly, for every, you know, every time I start to bitch about it, I think about, I think about some black kid who brought a gun to a $10 crack sale and is doing 30 years. Right. Because of fucking stupid law or somebody who was selling drugs to people that wanted the drugs. And they had a little bit too much and they got some 20 year minimum mandatory. And I'm saying like there's so many unfair sentences.

I don't, I try not to bitch about it. And listen, I made the best of it. It's just like you. Like like, you know, look, what would have been a good life? You know, getting a job at a regular job and a regular job. a family and being a soccer dad, and that's like the right thing. I wish, sometimes I think, well, I wish that's what I had done. Like, it just didn't work out like that.

Right. I have different memories. Yeah. You know? But I have compassion. And after January, I told Adrian, we've got to start talking about criminal justice reform. And any time you want to do a program, get another person, an attorney or somebody, I would love to talk about that because we are so, need of criminal justice reform years ago when you went in they had mandatory sentencing they took

away the judge's power and that always bothered me yeah well it it leaves no room for for for doubt well it leaves no room to say hey there are extenuating circumstances you know like sometimes you don't sometimes you don't have a choice you know you're born into a listen you're born into a criminal basically a family but a criminal organization and you were never given a choice but to do anything else. So, so, you know, I just, I don't know. There's just no good answer, but I'll tell you what's, what's not a solution is, what's not a solution is spending $11,000 to educate a student a year and spending $30,000 to house somebody. When you know that people with education don't commit as much crime as people without an education. Exactly.

Why wouldn't you just say, hey, every one probation officer can watch 25 guys. So why wouldn't you just let these guys out? Why do you even have a camp? They have out custody. You could put them on ankle monitors. You could, with today's technology, you could monitor where all these guys are. You could have red zones. They can drop the close.

Drop the close. Like, what are you doing? Like, it's doing nothing but getting votes. It's all about votes. And it's big business. Yeah. Oh, yeah, money. $20 and 30-year sentences for filling out some paperwork.

Right. Like, that's ridiculous. And some of these sentences are just fucking outraged. And they don't change anything. Does it reduce crime? Well, we're going to have to think about doing something. And education is the ass and assy, like you said. If you can educate these people, you know, I always sent to FBI friend of mine.

Why don't we go in there and show them how much technology and DNA is available and say, don't commit crime you have no chance educate them this oh my god I'll be caught in five minutes you listen I always thought I used to always say you know what they ought to do they ought to teach a class in every high school or middle school on

the federal sentencing guidelines and let me know that they're like wait a minute I've just been selling dime bags no you sold 30 pounds of pot right because you add all of that up and you they'll call it ghost dope and you got caught with 30 pounds of pot

and now you're going to do five years. They'd go, five years. Yeah. How am I going to do? No, no, no, I just sound a little, little, 20, 30, no, that's how it works.

Yeah. And you start telling them how it works and they'll go nuts. Yeah. You're like, oh, no, don't, don't. You said it, education's the end. Yeah. That is true.

Guys will call me and say, you know, hey, bro, like, I'll give you five grand. And you'll just tell me how this works. I'm like, Uh-uh. I'm already on the conspiracy. No. I'm already on the indictment. Right.

You're going to get caught. No, I would never tell on you. Well, let's pretend that's true, which I don't believe. But assume it's true. They've got to get your phone. They're going to run my phone number. They're going to see it at my name, whom I am. They're going to run my record. And they're not even going to, they're just going to add me to the indictment. Right.

And then I'm going to go to trial. I can't take the stand to explain what happened because they'll bring up my past record and the jury will convict me on the fact that I've been in prison for doing the same thing that you got caught with even though I just told you no. Don't call me to click.

People just don't understand how it works. And that RICO, man. I mean, that's a whole other thing, man. Yeah, conspiracy. Jesus. The government, you know, I mean, maybe Trump has a shot, but you know, years ago, they used to have

a 92% conviction. I don't know how he's going to beat the case. I don't know. Who knows? It's up to like 97% now. Yeah. Yeah. Although, let's pay that if you have money,

it does equal the, it does equal the, uh, our, um, semi, you know, helps level the playing football field to a degree.

Yeah. That's true. But we'll see, we'll see how it pans out with him. But, uh, before we do stop, Sal,

I was in to say, uh, So our Patreon channel is called A Lifetime of Mafia Tales with Salvatore Polici. And then my name is Adrian Martinez. So you can look it up on Patreon. And then our YouTube is Invest in Yourself podcast. And it's all together. It's invest in yourself podcast and a lifetime of Mafia Tales.

I know it's a long name, but me and Sound just partnered up. So it's, well, you know, we'll do it. Well, Colby will put your YouTube link and your Patreon link in the, in the description box. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, I'll say it. Thank you, Matthew. You appreciate it.

Yeah, I appreciate you spending the next, the last hour with me. I like hearing your history because it opens my eyes. Oh, my God. Yeah. He has a whole other perspective on this other side. Hey, this is Matthew Cox, and I appreciate you guys checking out the video. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Check the description box for Sal and Adrian's YouTube link and their video.

Patreon and thanks for checking out the video.