Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside a Million-Dollar Heist That Went Completely Wrong

Episode Date: May 23, 2026

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Not available in all states. Wes Watson was my OG. I despise Wes Watson, but the advice wasn't bad. He's morphed himself into a monster, and the advice is turning back. He's probably going to prison. They somehow steal jewelry from this dude. One of the pieces being the necklace and pretty warming. The only thing I want to say is just, I really appreciate you guys.

When I found your story I resonated with it, not the fraud aspect. I hadn't done any that, but just you're starting over. Yeah, and that you're. like a you are okay with being a civilian i like being a civilian you're not like this i never told i'm this fucking super gangster you know so that that's yeah man i just want to say thank you i can't nobody's going to be able to do it better than west watson right west was my ogy in san quinn and i'm like what's old west doing these things he's uh beating people up shooting trannon is yeah we're about to do a uh video on him here soon in a week or so

he'd beat some guy up in the gym did he oh i don't know i mean Oh, he kind of fucking case. They, like, assaulted somebody in the gym. Oh, bro. He was like, I don't know all the details, but it seems like he was like calling people out. He's like, if you got a problem, come down here. Yeah. Someone came down there.

Yeah, it was come down here and we'll go outside in the parking lot and it'll get me and you, but that's not what happened. The guy came down there. Walked up to him just and Wes gets in his face and West has got like three bodyguards. Bro. And they attack the guy. guy beat him up once he's on the ground west kicks him in the fucking head a couple of bro he's going back to yeah for and it's it's like the fight's over and he's still the guy's laying on his you know and he won't no the guy's like laying there like he it's over he's on the ground

and he runs up and kicks him in the fucking head i mean he's like walking around the gym like he's not in danger anymore it's over you and is one of his bodyguards grabs a fucking a weight and is hitting him with hits him with the weight they're kicking the guy multiple times that's serious body injury with a weapon. And it's all on tape. Bro, he's... He's done.

Well, now, Florida's a stay in your ground. If you come, if you, you can do exactly what happened. He'll Weston stand is fucking... Right. Well, what happened is he does, but when the guy approaches him, they can get into a fist fight. Yeah. But your buddies jumped in. Exactly.

You weren't in danger. So if you're in danger, you feel you're in danger. And Wes could maybe make that argument. The guy came down, but the guy's just standing there. He never goes at West. Right. They're just arguing at this point. And Wes attacks him.

West throws the first. It looked like that to me. He's hit. He's done. They fall on the ground. When he's on the ground, the other guys jump on top of him. They beat him to senseless. And used a weapon with the weight.

One of the other guys did. Then the guy kind of stumbles and falls on the ground. He's on the ground on his knees. Wes kicks him once. And then he walks around and he kicks him solid in the fucking head. So it's at the very least it's like aggravated. aggravated battery. Right.

Like it, you know, I don't know how the laws are in Colorado, but in, in Florida, you give a lot of leeway. Oh, I'm sure. But you don't have that much. But you can legally fight too consenting adults. Oh, absolutely. They wanted to go outside the parking lot by themselves and go to a fist fight. Perfectly fine.

As it should be. Wouldn't have been a problem. As it should be. Once you're no longer in danger, and he was in danger, not only that, your buddies had jumped in. Like, it stopped being stand your ground and it started. just being an assault. So I think he's probably,

if he doesn't get five years paper, he's probably going to get a couple years in prison. He's got a lot of money. He's probably going to have to sit down for a calendar, bro. You don't think? I think the media or the court system will want to teach him a lesson. The problem is the video.

Right. So, listen, I, they beat the dog shit out of that, dude. I'd love it if they taught, well, here's the other thing is, too, this wasn't me or you. First of all the guys looked like Wes. They're all big.

He was a small one. He was the tiny one. But the guy that showed up has got to be like six foot six black guy. And I mean, just a brick shit house. Yeah. But he's, let's face it, he's not much against four of the guys. Oh, no, no one is. So it doesn't, yeah, it, you know, like, and trust me, nobody, I, I despise Wes Watson. But, yeah, I feel like it's, it's a, it's, at the minimum, it's a few years.

But I'm always shocked at what people get away with. Right. You and me both. Yeah, the disparity in sentencing is so one guy will do 10 years and the next guy will do two and the next guy will get probation. And it's all the same charges. So wishy-washy and weird. But like I said, they do have a video.

I think we're watching the downfall of West Watson before very us. You know, they've been a lot of video. There's a lot of like, just like normal YouTubers who cover anything and everything. And they're making videos about before this. But they're like, this. guy, Wes Watson, is going insane. Like he's... But like you said earlier, any attention's good attention in the world of media, right?

You don't think this will further fuel his career? Well, I think with him, it's a little different because his business, like, his business model, too is like people are paying him, like, you know, thousands of dollars for, like, coaching and stuff where it's like... Who abused them? Yeah. For us, like, our model is, like, views, man. money.

So it's like, or views equal money. We're not selling like a program. Right. There's a master class. Like a certain type of reputation. Like we're doing this. Like him having negative press,

hurting his reputation probably does end up hurting his business. Right. Okay. But I mean, it's kind of probably to his own doing. You know what I mean? I wonder what his end goal. I mean,

he should have just walked away like in 2021 while he had all the cloud and all the good standing. The guy's a lonely. a tick. He's a loser, bro. He's spending every dollar he gets to look. Fucking. Look like he's making tons of money. And the things he's spending money on, like, so, like, bro, like, you're, you're spending, God knows how many, you know, tens of thousands of dollars to rent somebody else's house so that you can look like a big show.

He rents it all. Yeah, everything's rented. Nothing's in his name. And then his fans will come out and be like, yeah, because he's smart. It doesn't look like it's in his name. But he's got this. And he's, no, he has an actual landlord that owns a building. has nothing to do with Wes Watson.

Yeah, he's like, Wes is renting this guy. My watch is $500,000. I was like, bro, I'd never spent $500,000 on a plastic watch. Yeah, he's, he's just, it's just stupidity. It's, it's sad. Yeah, it's, there's some deep, deep-seated, uh, um, issues there that there's, there's something really wrong.

And it's funny because when he first got out of prison. I was going to say it. When he first started, I kind of liked it. Yeah. Because it was just like, hey, like work out, be a man. He was in a park. Yeah. Be a, yeah.

Yeah. A lot of it was just good advice, but it's morphed into something. He's morphed into, uh, not his, okay, his delivery was horrific, but the advice wasn't bad. It was good advice, but the, but the advice is he's morphed himself into a monster and the advice is turning bad. And the fact that you would, he's got guys, he's giving business classes like, you've never run a business. No, he hasn't. So the fact that, and when people come to me and they want to ask me about business advice, I'm like, well, I'm not going to give you business advice.

Not that I would give you bad business advice, but the problem is, is that I've never had a successful business that wasn't based on fraud. Right. So I'm not going to take your money. Yeah, until now, but I'm not going to take your money to give you good advice when there are people that have done it the right way that you can go out. And way more qualified. Right. And I agree with you. I wouldn't want to get a chance either.

My first, my go-to move is fraud. Right. That shouldn't be the guy you're listening to. Oh, yeah. So you find out, find there are lots of competent people. Colby, I feel like you'll know this. What was the, what was it the fresh and fit? What was that thing that he's all dressed in white?

And he, it was like kind of the start of his downfall. Do you know what I'm talking about? He's on stage with, about six months ago. He's on stage like 10 guys. He's fresh and fit. Fresh and fit. And he starts degrading these guys. I, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't know the details, but I have heard, heard something like that.

Yeah. That's kind of what I trace his whole. It was semi-unravelling anyway, because the truth is, is like he says he did this much time. He said 10 years. He didn't do 10 years. He wasn't in that prison. He was in like Oklahoma. Yeah, he's got a bunch of, you know, I was in the Cal, I'm a product of the California penal system.

You weren't in California. You weren't a shock collar. You didn't hoop your fucking paperwork. That's the crazy. That's the craziest one, bro. Yeah, he's got, it's silliness. And here's the thing. You could have simply told the truth.

And you'd have been just successful. You didn't need to lie about it. Maybe more successful. You didn't need to embellish. And then you wouldn't have given your, your haters ammunition. Right. They're not hating you for things that didn't happen. You gave them the ammunition against you.

It's still not working because people are just flocking to him for other reasons. But you don't have to lie to get to where you are. I think the general consensus, though, is the guys a lame, fake piece. Yeah. I mean, I don't doubt that he'd. you know, absolutely beat me into the fucking ground, but I don't think that beating someone in the ground makes you a man. Yeah, but I bet you could outrun him or outlive him.

I would have to. I bet your heart outlives him. Guaranteed, dude. I hope so. With all the human growth hormone and trane and shit that dude's got pumping through him. Listen, I'm going to send you the video. When you see the video, it'll be like, Jesus. And they blur out everything.

Please do send me the video. They blow out. Yeah, to get monetized. They can barely, they can barely show it to you. Gotcha. It's only clips. that you're like clip here or clip here clip here, clip,

because that's how monetization works like. They can't show you this. These guys are having to remove the gory stuff. I bet I could find the uncensored version on bitch shoot. Yeah,

I think the unscensored version might be on Baller Busters and Instagram that kind of goes after, you know, I guess. I see the context clues the name Baller Busters. Yeah, people that like ball,

you know, maybe putting on like a fake lifestyle, and they're selling a high dollar coaching or whatever, and they kind of go in there. and say like, uh, not really.

Gotcha. That's pretty funny. Well, hey, hopefully, uh, hopefully old boy figures it out,

but you're gonna learn the hard way in that big fucking bubble bath or whatever the fuck you sits in. That dude's crazy. He's always like in this huge bubble bath. Like, you want to get to this point, brother?

He's like, you want to drive a Rolls-Royce? Say, nah, really don't. No, I don't care. I like my truck.

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Try it risk-free with a 100-day money-back guarantee. Trust me, your future self will thank you. And thank you to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode. Yeah, let's just start like where you were born, that sort of thing, you know. My dad, he's working in a nightclub. Okay, this nightclub is called the Garden of Eden. He's a bouncer there. And we don't have a lot of money, man.

we don't come from money. So he, you know, he starts immersing himself in the underworld of L.A. at the time. And mind you, he's also dating that Playboy Bunny, our name's Sandra Bentley. She had been with the gentleman before she met my pops named Mark Yagala, who's a billionaire Wall Street guy. Yeah, sounds familiar. You might know him because he was a fraudster type of cat. He did.

The name sounds familiar. I don't know if I know him, but it does sound. It does sound familiar. He did time in the feds, I think. Oh, did he? Mm-hmm. For fraud. Okay.

Like big fraud. So anyway, she was with that guy, breaks up, ends up with my pops. They somehow get the idea to steal jewelry from this, from this dude. To make a long story short, they end up acquiring a bunch of jewelry. One of the pieces being the necklace from Pretty Woman. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The famous one where he comes and puts it on her and she's in a red dress. Yeah. Yeah, my pops have that. They have all these pieces, and they're trying to sell it.

They have no certificate of authenticity, so no legitimate jewelry dealers in LA are going to touch it. Everyone's like, no, get away from me. And they end up talking to some guy at the nightclub. He sets up the deal to make a long story short. My dad ends up getting killed in the transaction. They shot them both, and then they burned the car with the bodies in it. Did these guys get the necklace? They got all the jewelry.

So you would think they could track the necklace somehow. Somehow they would eventually, or did they catch the guys and they just couldn't get enough on them? Do they kind of know who it is? They never caught the guys. But do they kind of know who it is? I think the LAPD definitely knows. Because, you know, here's the problem is a lot of times.

Like, they'll know who the guy is. Like we know, we just don't have enough evidence. Like we have people, because people are always coming forward saying, listen, those, that murder, these guys did it. We know it, but they just can't get them, you know? And murder is very, very difficult to prove in court. It's the hardest trial, right? Right.

I was going to say, that's the one where you just, you know, most of these guys get away because they know, you know, the cops are, they know it. And the families would be like, you know, Johnny did it. What are you doing? And they're like, yeah, but we have three people saying he did it, but that's not, that's not proof. That's not enough. You're right. So it's a difficult.

And as far as the necklace is concerned, you would think, well, they had to sell that. But really, they probably just broke it down for diamonds and sold it individually. You see what I'm saying? To a fence or a couple fences. So then it's like if I was a guy and I had the necklace, where's the necklace? You see what I'm saying? Like it's a tough sell unless they get this guy on tape and they find the gun and they, you know, it's a hard pill to swallow. After that, what happened with your mom?

Basically, just destroyed my mom psychologically, emotionally, mentally. And my sister and I, we had also been equally just as devastated from the event. Right. So we were all lashing out in our own ways. It was all manifesting differently for each of us, the trauma of our, you know, my father or whatever. But anyway, for me, I was just looking for. attention from older male figures. Gravitating a lot towards gangs,

tagging crews, stuff like that, just skating all day, painting graffiti all day, basically just trying every drug I can and trying to impress older males as much as possible. So do you join a gang? No, I didn't join a gang at that age. I was part of a tagging crew. Okay.

I'm not going to say the name of it End up being like somewhat of a decent crew back then But, you know, just painting a bunch and What does that mean a tagging crew? Like, I mean, I think that means You guys tag just randomly. Are you putting together like, like, I hate to say this because I'm just going to make me sound

Like I absolutely don't know what I'm talking about. But are you guys doing like actual like, you know, like murals and stuff? or you just doing small tags? And what are those tags? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, what's the, what's it like?

You said it's a whole cruise. So it's like, are there multiple crews? How does it work? Do you guys go out at night, like at midnight? And what's the deal? It sounds so ridiculous. You guys say like that sounds a super, and it is pretty lame looking back. But basically, man, no, there was no murals.

And it was like a group of, you know, kids essentially going out of night. But really, so it is kind of, I mean, I don't want to call it gangs, but think of it like this. Let's say you have a name, right? Like we call it KSF, King's size family, okay? That's your crew. You got folks in it that came before you. You got asked to be on it, whatever. You join it.

You're tagging KSF with your moniker, right? Let's say you write Kobe. You write Kobe. KSF, that's your tag tagging crew. And basically just lets folks know who you run with in the graffiti world. You know, but yes, the idea and the point is to spread as much of y'all's name throughout the city through the medium of spray paint art. You know what I mean? Is there ever any beefs with like your other, the other graffiti crew?

How do you make money off of this? There's no money. You know what I'm saying? Obviously, not understanding. It's just pure passion. Okay. Yeah. But, and yes, there are beasts.

We had a, we had a friend actually growing up, get killed as a result of it. Over graffiti? Mm-hmm. Yeah. He was tagging in an area that he shouldn't have been in a gang area, like an actual territory or whatever. And, yeah, folks came up and he, my boss. buddy pulled a knife out on and was like back the fuck up blah blah took off and then they later on came by their tattoo shop and sprayed it up and and this is uh like middle school age that you're

kind of getting into this yeah yeah are most most of people doing this are they like in middle school too or is they like you know older it was it was mixed ages all the way up until 20s and do you do it as a group are you guys all running around together not every single night no we all You know, folks have jobs and lives and brothers and sisters and kids and blah, blah, blah. But we, when we could, yeah, we'd be together for sure, looking out for each other while folks are, you know, tagging. Sometimes have homies on our shoulder or whatever, you know. And are you looking for like, is there any? It's a lot of effort for like what, I don't understand what the goal is.

Point was just we like graffiti. and we like blasts and graffiti all over city but looking back it's fucked up yeah would you look like specifically like oh like this is a nice new building downtown no so there's rules there's seven rules that we abided by no churches no cemeteries no high schools no cars no houses no rocks no trees

but I've broken the rocks one before like fight club but I swear to God bro and this is uh is this in Colorado back in Colorado or are you still in L.A No, this is all in LA. My eyes, you know, I tagged maybe a couple hundred times in Tamara.

Hmm. And is it, and it's just like, is it artistic? Like, is it like you guys are trying to make it look nice, cool? Yes, it got to that point. Yeah. It didn't start, like, it started very rudimentary and just, you know, with a marker. But eventually, yes, it did get to the point where we were trying to make it as nice as possible. You know, trying to get steasy with it, you know.

Yeah, like the three, what about the train cars? Was that a... We bombed trains, yeah. But, you know, I'm not going to sit here and act like I was some vicious train bomber. There were some kids that I grew up with that are legends. I didn't say vicious. I don't understand vicious. Like, just wicked, like, awesome.

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. God, I'm so fucking old. No, you're not, man. You're young. I don't know any of this. I know.

Feds preserved you. I see. Like, you know, I know that I've heard people say, you know, like a tagging crew or this and that. But I never really kind of thought they were doing spray painting. And I thought it was maybe gang related, like for gangs that they'll mark their territory or something. But the goal was to let everybody know this is our area. And then nobody come in here because this is where we sell drugs. Well, some people do that.

You're right. Okay. Some people do that. Because I assume that that's got a very distinctive purpose, and ultimately it's to make money. But to do it, just to do it, then I'd be like, it was like art for the sake of art. Like, it's not about the money. No. But then it's really, you guys are just putting your name everywhere.

Yeah. I mean, I was 12. All right. And were you putting your government name or do you have a nickname? No, I'm not a nickname. Yeah. Okay. Put your email address?

Yeah. I was talking about. I was talking to my social. Yeah. I'm trying to have a conversation. with a please yeah so you know just getting into so what so how do we how are we progressing from there okay so still 12 uh i'm sitting with my older buddies falcer and bewer those are their tag names um and they're they're like hey youngster we i used to smoke at foster's house that was my older homeboy

all the time. And we're just blowing blunts in his garage. And they say, hey, you know, go in the house real quick and grab something. I forget what they asked. It must have been something like swishers or something. I say, okay, sure. I go. I realize I had left my little flip phone.

I had a little Motorola flip phone. I go back into the garage to grab it and they're smoking to gag off tinfoil. And they all put it away real quick. Hey, youngster, told you to go in there and. grab whatever you and why you come back i said hey bro what are you all doing they're like nothing nothing i said no no what are you what are you all doing i want to i want to see it they're like the same for you the same for you i probably bugged them 20 30 times finally they're like jesus okay okay fine we don't want you doing this your brother's going to kill us

out of older brother they're friends with um like please please just let me try it they're like okay fine but if you try it you can only do it with us and you i don't want to want you doing it all the time and i was like okay they're 18 19 and how old are you 12 on everything i love straight up oh listen i might and and they let me try 12 just a couple of good guys you know honestly man i haven't seen buren in a long time but false false was a good dude bro he really he really is he fucked up that day bad he fucked up he made a bad decision but he has a good soul. I thought you were saying, no, I really pushed him into.

The 12-year-old really put a lot of hair pressure on the 18-year-old. I'm not going to justify his actions, but he is a good person. All right. Okay. People change. I get it. Bad decision. Of course, you're 18, too.

18 at 18, you shouldn't really be making any major decisions. Especially for someone else. That's what I was like, especially, like, I shouldn't be in a position to make any decision for you. Exactly. But, okay, so. So, and then you, but you, you quit that, you graduated high school, you went on a college, you became a CPA, and you opened a CPA firm. Exactly.

Okay. I became a lawyer. I thought it was, no, that's where the story was going. Yeah. Sure did. Don't forget the, I almost went to the NFL. Yeah. But now, so.

Yeah. It's always, I blew up my shoulder. I was this close. Yeah. The knee. No. I've heard that from, we've literally had multiple people that's happened. I'm like, how is it?

This is the third guy that blew out his knee. Right. No, it just progressed and got worse. Basically, so at this particular time, we're living on the west side. And my mom, she's remarried again. Okay. To a gentleman, we'll just call him G. Okay.

Now, he has a son. Up until this point, we've lived with them for about six years. They're getting into it every night. my mom and G and fighting all that. We get kicked out, all right? Now, mind you at the time, an apartment on Sunset Boulevard in 2009 was $2,700 a month.

Okay? So when we get kicked out, we move into this little apartment. My mom and sister are sharing a room. I have a room, and my mom can't afford it. You can't live on the west side, right? So we move.

We move to East L.A. Bam. My mom gets knocked up by this dude, another guy. We're living with him for a bit. We get kicked out again. What is the issue with getting kicked out? My mom was a crazy fucking bitch. Okay.

Okay. That's right. That wasn't positive of that yet. She bless her soul because she has changed and put in so much work on herself and she she is really turned around you know since that time yeah it's just it because like you know you i'll hear these stories and it's like the person's not like okay is the is the husband or the guy abusive no it's not the guys okay so you know what i'm saying like i always wonder like but to me i hear these people getting to arguments and fights like to me i'm going

to get along like you're paying my rent we're getting along no matter what for sure i'm always wrong You know what I'm saying? You and me both. Right. Yeah. I'm going to play K to you. But that's not my mom. Right.

She's not making that. And listen, to her defense, it takes two to tango. There was definitely some of these guys that, you know. But in the grand scheme of pieces of shit, they weren't like bottom of the barrel. They were some of them were all right guys. But anyway, East L.A., she gets knocked up. We get kicked out. At the time, I was going to Lachin Yada.

high school in east LA and my sister I forget what middle school she was going to but we are effectively homeless now right my mom's pregnant so what do we do we move in with my grandparents in Colorado okay so you move out LA go straight to go to Colorado right now this further just fucks me up and I miss I miss home missed the pawn trees, sunshine, all my friends, just L.A. in general, right? Random shootings. Go and by. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, at the time, I wasn't as conservative. Now I appreciate less crime and stuff like that. But we get to Colorado and, man, I'm just, I'm in a bad depression. And I instantly just start asking anyone I could find for drugs. Kids at my high school, we moved to an affluent area in Douglas County, Castle Rock, and I'm going to this affluent high school, and all these kids are looking at me in my dickies and my big flannel and converse and my fucking ghetto ass outfit while I'm asking him for a gag.

They're looking at me like I'm crazy. They're like, who is this kid? You know, we're playing lacrosse driving Subaru's. Like, what are you talking about? So I don't fit in it. at this school and I'm instantly on a downward spiral. Okay. I mean, I'm assuming that you, you're saying a downward spot.

I'm assuming eventually you found a plug and you start, you know, doing whatever. Yep. We're talking about H? Or what I'm talking about. So right when I touched down in Colorado, I initially had a bad bow with blow. Just, you know, same. shit started stealing, you know, sneaking out, behaviors got worse, attendance at school got worse, fighting, all this shit, whether it be physical fights at school or verbal fights with family

members. Eventually, I get sent to a wilderness program. Do you know about those back in the day? A lot of them are shut down now. I mean, you know, and like I know of the, what do they call it? It's the boot camps. I know boot camps. They're kind of like primitive living boot camps for like.

Bad teenagers and shit. I feel like Boziac was in one. John Boziac. Yeah, yeah. He never talks about it. It's in the book because he was talked about how they had these cabins and they made you like plant grow. You know, they were growing their own vegetable. Yes, somewhere like that.

Yeah, he had a whole. Ours, we were like hiking from spot to spot. No cabins. No nothing. But yeah, so I got sent to one of those. And then I went to a juvenile prison in Missouri. jury and it was like all this shit from that i come back bam get back in so by 15 i'm smoking and every day okay so how are you paying for this i'm stealing and being a piece of shit

okay what is yeah what you like what are you like what are you stealing i was like dude i'm i'm i'm putting my hand in my mom's purse who's barely making 50 grand a year just doing little shit stealing from people i claimed to be my friends you know girlfriends all that shit man it was bad it was bad it's not good okay um you're not burglarizing houses or anything no we had done stuff like that in l.a actually um never didn't get into that but we we'd broken into houses in l.a you steal stuff i stopped doing that really in colorado okay um so how long does this go on like what what do you eventually get arrested at some point i mean yeah so it just it gets worse and worse um i did i got arrested for

like graffiti and like petty theft and shit but as a minor um about the second i turned 18 though mind you from by like i said by 16 i'm right um by also by 16 i'm getting kicked out the house so now i'm homeless also i never graduate high school because i was getting high leaving every day to go pick up. So I get kicked out of high school too, right? So I'm homeless, doing dope. I have no money, no job, burnt all my bridges. By 18, almost like clockwork, I go to county. Like, what do you get? Basically turn 18 and go to county. What do you get arrested? Possession. Okay. Well, what are they, some, the cops pull you over? No, so I've been selling dope. At this point, I'm like fully homeless, fully immersed in the street,

I'm selling under a bridge downtown off Colfax and Spear. And I got arrested for like eight-tenths of a gram. I mean, did you sell to an undercover? No. I almost did. But no. Just the cops pulled up on you and searched you and did? No, they saw me making a sale with a bunch of kids from the college because Metro's right there.

And so I made a sale and I walked out the parking lot and they skirted up on me in a little crown bay. Okay. They what they, they grabbed. I'm with, all right. I'm with my, I'm with my lady, my friend, Bird. Okay. Me. Okay.

We're walking. They pull up. They just fuck with us. Like, hey, what's up? We just saw you. Come here. Turn around. Cuff up.

I'm like, what the fuck you're talking about? Like, we just saw you, you know, don't, don't play with us. I'm like, yo, what are you talking about? They search me. They find the dope. Is it possession? Is that possession? Just a possession.

They tried. They actually, they held me on an investigative hold. They did two, uh, two, extensions on it. They requested two extensions. An investigative hold can only last three business days in Denver County. So they filed all three investigative holds or the extensions, and then they just had to leave it out of possession. They couldn't prove. Do you get, what does that carry? Is that probation? I saw it walk into the court hearing that day, and my poet defender is like, looking for our names. He says, Lucas. I was like, yeah, right here. He's like, how old are you?

I'm 18. He's like, you're 18? He's like, you don't have any criminal history? Like, no, he's like, get you a PR bond today, probation. Okay. Worst decision, though. I should have done the time. Right. Yeah. Why? Because you think you would have gotten clean? Yeah. Okay. Probation's not the move. If you're a junkie, don't take probation. Right. Yeah. Not if you want to stay a, you know, You want to stay? Seriously, no, they'll literally just revoke and reinstate you. Yeah. So is that what happens?

Yep. You immediately, you start failing a drug test? Yep. I turned a two-year probation into seven years of paper. Okay. Are you, and you just, do you continue to sell? Uh, yeah. I mean, dude, this was, you know, 2015.

So I was I'm not a good drug dealer I tried to to do it but it just wasn't really working out I would get too high you know I'd run up a little bit and I'd just do it all so I to answer a question I continued selling until I got so down bad that I ultimately just became a homeless junkie for real like on the street nothing no No motivation, nothing, like down bad, you know. I'd been homeless until that, but I had never been shelters, sleeping under bridges, homeless. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of

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thinking to yourself i need to get i need to get off of this and get my life together or you just thinking i need to stay high as long as possible and you don't even think about anything other than that no matt it was like like a living nightmare i wanted to get clean the whole time man It sucked. It was almost like watching yourself from a third party experience. I know it sounds like no accountability or, I'm not saying I didn't have control, but it almost felt like I didn't, you know. Like watching yourself suffer, you know, wanting yourself to stop, but almost can't.

Okay. And what are you, and you're saying you have nowhere to live, like I'm another car, you're saying you're living under a bridge, but I mean, you're not living there permanently. Right? Like, don't the cops come in every once in? Yeah, push everybody out. Yep. And then what do you do? So, I mean, I'd stay at Jesus saves or the crossroads off 29th and Brighton or, like I said, that bridge near REI. And you stay there for a while? You go into like a homeless shelter for what, for a while. Like, they let you come for a month or for 10 days. As long as you're not acting up, they'll let you stay. You just have to show up every night at a certain time before the, you know, line or before they close the doors and you're good.

The problem with me was I would be stealing from people or, you know, one time I got kicked out of Jesus saves because a loaded syringe fell out of my pocket, stuff like that. How does this go on for seven years? Do you ever get a job? Do you ever straighten up, like, get off it for a month and then you reaff-or, is it just continuous? So in one year, besides that possession, I caught the fraud case. I wrote a bitch-ass check. I stole a check from my grandma and wrote it to myself. Okay, so I catch that.

How much was that? It was for something. You would laugh being with your background. It was like $250. Right. Nothing. That's what you thought you could get away with it. Yeah.

Like he's not, I'm not trying to wipe her out. Exactly. Trying to get high. Right. So I catch that. And then. And she saw this and she calls the police. The bank called the police.

And how it happened was it was weird because I don't know why we did this. But for some reason, we went up to this random guy in the parking lot and like asked him if we could sign the check over to him. So he could. It was this whole convoluted thing. But the bank is who cracked us. Did he do that? He did. Fucking idiot.

Yeah. He did. I've been in Walmart. I've been in, home depot. Someone asked you? It's no guys have come up to me and been like, hey man, listen, I got a Home Depot or I got a gift card for 200 bucks. Give it to you for a hundred bucks right now, bro. And I was just like, yeah, no, no, no, it's good.

And I'm like, no, I believe it's. Yeah, I'm like, I believe it's good. I'm like, I also know the you put this is somebody else's credit card you used or somebody else like, I don't doubt this is going to go through for 250, but I'm not going to be a part of your fraud. You're right. Like I, um, but, uh, and I was going to say, if somebody came into a piece of, hey man, can I endorse this over to you? You have me like, yeah, I get the fuck out of here, right? Yeah, I felt bad. It was a dude and his lady, too.

I really thought you were going to say, my grandmother found out. We cashed it. My grandmother found out, and she called the police. I was like, good for grandma. You know what I'm saying? Oh, no. No. Yeah.

I'm not one to play with. She's not. She's not, too. But she, no, she didn't. So what is, like, your grandma and your mother, like, they know what's going on? How they're trying to help? Or they just have their own issues that. You know, or they tried to help so much.

They're just done. Bingo. Yeah. Shout out to my mom, my grandma. Y'all are awesome. You guys did, they did everything they could, man. They tried everything, bro. They were so loving, so compassionate.

And it ultimately just, I was just too far gone at the time, you know? And, you know, the amount of rehabs, all that, a junkie's not going to stop until they're ready. It doesn't matter what you could you could give them the greatest advice, put the best people around them, send them to pastures or Malibu, whatever the fuck, the greatest rehabs, unless they're ready, it's just not going to happen. So how so this I don't understand they don't they, you keep getting failing, um, drug tests and they don't, they don't throw you back in jail and they just keep extending.

They get? So how long do you go to jail for? Couple days, couple weeks, couple months. That's not through jail. That's just, that's going through the process. But they don't say, 60 days, 90 days. The judge at no point says, you know what, six months. No. If we can get them clean for six months, he might shake. They never, no, they never gave me like eight months or anything. Fucking ridiculous.

I mean, I don't think that you should fucking, some guy who's using drugs, I don't think he should get five years or something. But I mean, at some point, you know, six months in county for, for a homeless junkies, good for them. Yeah, I was going to say, there is a certain, there's a certain amount of time that is good to get them past being off the drugs. And even when you get off the drugs, people are like, oh, well, it's been 10 days. Yeah, 10 days is not enough. No, no, no, 20, 30, that's not enough. Somewhere between the 90 and 180. Yeah.

For sure. Yeah. And then after that, you don't want someone getting jaded. I mean, to be honest with you, really, really, it's like a year. year, not in jail, you shouldn't go to jail for a year. I'm saying, really, if somebody gets off drugs, it's really like a year or so. A year to two years. Before, oh, yeah. Your brain starts to kind of recalculate because you still have, you might not have to be on drugs. You might have gotten to the point where you're like, I'm definitely not going to do them, but you're still got that junky kind of

mentality where you're not, you're still thinking kind of hand to mouth. You're not doing any long-term thinking. That takes years. Do you know the term post-acute? withdrawal syndrome. I've heard the term. The acronym's pause. That's exactly what you're talking about. Okay. So like withdrawals last, you know, five to ten days.

Post-acute withdrawal syndrome lasts up to two years. And that's those neuropathways in your brain repairing. It's crazy. Thinking about ARDAP. It's the residential residential drug abuse or addiction, whatever program. I don't know what the acronym means. There's two things that I thought about when we were just talking.

One is that I've seen guys that have gotten arrested, come to prison, and they act like maniacs. Like they're not even on drugs. They're just act like, and you know that this guy's a full-time drug addict. And then, like, you'd see them, you talk to them late because you don't have to talk to anybody. Obviously, you can go, you can go your heart. whole 10 years and not talked to everyone.

So, but then maybe a year later you talked to the guy or two years later and it was like a fucking person. You're like, and then, and I had that conversation where I'm like, you're like a different person. Right. Than you were two years ago when you came in, they were like, oh, yeah, well, I was doing, they were doing drugs in like the county jail. It wasn't a county.

It was a U.S. Marshall's holdover, but I was still doing stuff. Right. Or somebody who turned themselves. in who was doing drugs up to the day they walked in. Are the Fed detentions centers flooded like that? No, it's more like the guys that are turning themselves in. Just have it hooped in their ass. Gotcha.

No, no. No, I'm saying they, like you got sentenced to, let's say some guy, they give you five years. And then they say you can report to the prison. So they're still doing drugs. Got you. Up till the day they get to the gate and they come in. Got you. Got you.

Because you have to think they're at this point, it's like, I'm going to jail. They're turning themselves in. Gotcha. Right. So that guy comes in and maybe he's on drugs or been off drugs for a couple of weeks. Maybe he's still scrounging around trying to get guys to get them drugs and take anything, you know, because you might be a, you might be doing, you know, H or on the street, then you get to prison and they don't have it. Right. But they do have something else that they'll supplement.

But guys would come in, they're maniacs. You talk to them two years later. It's a completely different person than when they came in. But that's because they got off, they stayed off. But I also remember their guys in ARDAP. An ARDAP, we used to joke that they would brainwash you. And in a way, they do. A lot of programs.

But to your benefit, you know what I'm saying? In a way, it's good. And I remember this one guy one time. We used to mock. Like before he went in the program, we would mock the program as like, you know, that, yeah, bro, they brainwash you in there. you know, oh man, it's crazy. Stay out of there, yeah, yeah.

But he knew he had to go. And then when he started, he said, he was like, bro, it's so bad. You have no idea. And he would tell me all, they'd tell you all the different things that they were doing and the books and the group of this. And you don't understand. These guys are like, they're watching you all the time. And so he still knew. He's like, oh, you're scared all the time.

So he would go through this whole thing for a few months. And then there was a few months where we didn't really sit together. And then one day, either he came and sat down or we came and sat down. You get to a point in the program where you're only supposed to hang out with people in the program. So at one point, he was there and we went and sat with him. I think that's what happened. And some guy made a joke. Matter of fact, I think I was in the program.

I started. Hence why you could sit with him. Yeah. And I think my buddy Pete sat down. And Pete, I think, said something, made a joke about the program and about, or somebody said, hey, yeah, Mike, have they got you brainwashed yet or something? They brainwashed you yet? Or, you know, and something like, how's a brainwash?

You know, the guy sits down and says like, how's a brainwashing going? I'm like, I'm fighting it. You know, and then he says, how about you, Mike? They got you yet? And keep in mind, up until we were joking about this, weeks a month. Right. And Mike sits there with his plate and he stops.

I don't even know his name was Mike. I don't know if he was, but he goes, and he looked up and he looked, he looked at me and he looked at Pete. I feel like it was Pete. Looked at Pete and looked at me and he goes, no, no. He goes, you know what they got me? He goes, they got me thinking right for once. And he picked up the plate and walked off. Wow.

And I go, what the fuck did you just do? Because keep in mind, I can get in trouble. Right. Because I'm mocking the program with someone in front of us. And this guy might pull me up in the meeting the next morning and be like, stand up. You've been through these things. Right. Stand up.

I wants to hold me accountable. We sat down the other day. Your buddy mocked the program. You mocked. So I'm like, oh, my God. What did you do? You got me fucked up. He's like, no, we joke about it all the time.

That's Mike. Right. I'm like, no, don't you understand. They got him. They got him. They've got a whole. You know, she's been brainwashed. It's over.

You got me fucked up. You're going to get me fucked. And he's like, I'm like, don't do that anymore. I can't even see you anymore. We had a code word with your own berries. We had a code word. For when someone was being in. No, someone's around you.

Because, you know, in prison, you go to the chow line, right? And you're in the chow line with, it's 150 people. And damn sure is. Go into the main middle and they're not all set up like this. But you go and you get your food, then you get your drink and then you sit down. That's how the child lines. Most chowel-haws are. Right.

But you might be standing there. And you're standing there. And you're standing pretty close. boost each other. So if Pete and I are talking, blueberries. There could be, there could be two guys in front of me,

but there could be a guy in front of him that's in the program. And a guy behind me, even though there's a buffer, they can hear what we're saying. Blueberries. Right. And so we would walk up and Pete goes, hey, so he'd go,

so what happened in group today? I'd go blueberries, blueberries, blueberry. And he'd be like, oh. You know, he went, there's an ear hustler. Someone's like, there's blueberries around. There's, you know,

or you'd say, oh, bro, they got blueberries today? man, they don't have no blue bear. And we kind of try and play it all, joking, Robbie Blueberries. So they got blueberries. Now, you got to have the code words with the homies, man. It's terrifying.

Yeah. But a lot of those guys would fake it till they make it. But a lot of those guys, it would make a significant change in their life. And even though I'm sure a lot of them went back to doing that what they were doing, the recidivism rate for the guys was lower. Was much lower going through the program. And that's what I always say is that.

We're talking about that. They should have, if not a drug program, because it's really not a drug program. It's a behavior modification program, right? It's criminal thinking. I think they should have, they should have one, a drug program, but they should also probably have a behavior modification program that you don't get out of prison until you complete. I agree, man. Because it would help. It's a huge incentive.

Right, because most guys don't, they don't have critical thinking, right? Like, they don't think long term. They make those rash decisions without realizing, well, wait a minute. Right. Wait a second. If I do that, why am I doing this to feel good? What's the result of this? Well, I'm going to feel good.

Yeah, but what's the result of this? What's the worst that could happen? And then you kind of go, wait a minute, I'm using the money that I'm supposed to be saving to pay the rent. Why am I paying the rent? Because my kids live here. Yes. Like, you know, and you start playing it out. What's going to happen if I don't have?

the rent you start going through that process and you go oh wait a minute maybe i better not do this you know most guys don't do that they're like what yeah man i got i got 20 bucks in my pocket that's as far as they're thinking they get the 20 bucks they get the stuff they go do some drugs four hours later they're coming off it and maybe they're thinking they need dog food for the dog bro yeah now i don't have money for whatever i don't you know not that you're rents 20 but if if you're rents a thousand no you had just said 900 Yeah. The 20 might be the difference between the nine and that, you know, whatever.

Right. You just hit the nail on the head for most junkies. Yeah. Rent situations. Yeah. That's, yeah, that's what I'm thinking is like, what is what was your thought process when this is happening? Like, why? I mean, because obviously there's an addiction issue, even though I don't have an addiction issue with drugs because I don't do drugs, right?

I've never, I've never seen ever smoking a cigarette, never smoked, never done anything. It did have a prescription for Zana. I envy you that you've never done drugs. But you know what I have an issue with where I can think is food? You know how many times I'll sit down with a bag of chips and I'm just going to have a little bit. And then it's like you, it's like you almost blink and it's an hour later and the bag of chips is empty and you're laying there and you're brushing stuff off. And you're like, fuck, I was on a diet. What did I do?

there's a empty bag of chips. I've had three popsicles. You know, where's this ice cream come from? What am I doing? You know, I feel sick. And I'm like, oh, you were going to have a few chips. So I can understand, you know, a lot of people have, if you don't have an, you don't have

some kind of something. Everyone has advice. Yeah. If you don't have one, then you probably have someone maybe, you probably have someone handcuffed in your basement. For real, bro. There's something going. Oh, for real.

These people that appear perfect. Yeah. You always find out. later like, oh, yeah, they were, no, no, they had a sex slave in their dungeon. Seriously, perfection. People that portray themselves perfect, freak me out. Yeah, seriously, the church guy, the pastor. He had an extra family.

Yeah, that was because the church thing is great. He's got an extra family. They don't know about it. No, for real. I was like a little jack boy for sure. This is my, like, how I like to rob people. Okay. I don't do this anymore, obviously.

Shouts out to all Honduran folks. Shouts out to all Mexican folks. I'm sorry that most of y'all was who I robbed. But why is that, by the way? Because they were the dealers usually. Oh, okay. So it's just targeting because they're illegals or anything. No, no, no, no.

It was just because of the product. Because they're little people? Because they're brown. No. Some of them motherfuckers were big. Oh, okay. Some of the motherfuckers were big. But, man, so this is what I do.

So I'd have my buddy pull up right with me. I usually wasn't the one with the car. The old saying is an alcoholic has a car but no license. A junkie has a license, but no car. Anyway, so I have no car. My buddy would usually pull up. And we'd have the plug, the dealer, hop in the front seat, passenger seat. when I would do is I'd put my arm around their throat from the back

put my arm around their throat from the back and I'd you know whatever I had on me a knife I'd rob people with syringes before guns, fake guns, whatever I would just choke them, put a thing to their head and just rob them but the reason I like doing that is because when you have someone in the passenger seat in front of you and you have them choked from behind them as you're crouched behind the seat they can't really poke

you, hit you, or do anything. That's like the perfect position. Anyway, that's how to do it. I'd have them hop in the front and choke them, rob them, throw them out the car. Did anybody fight back? A couple times. But the most important part of a robbery is hitting the person. You always hit someone immediately.

And the reason you do that is because you're letting them know that this is real life, bro. The first, I'm not trying to like, try. train folks, but the first thing you do always is crack the fuck out of them. If it's with a gun, obviously piss them. If it's just your hand hit him, you know, whatever. So you got caught up for one? The one time I robbed a white kid. He called the cops on me.

The one time. That's funny. Anyway, I, same exact, excuse me, same exact lick, same exact. strategy, except what he did was he told the cops that I pulled up on him while he was vaping in a parking lot, and I stuck a gun in his face, which is hilarious. And yeah, I don't know why he thought the cops wouldn't look through his phone. They did. They ended up seeing all of his plays he was making with his customers, and they found out he was a drug dealer. But he literally called the cops on me. Blew my mind. So, so, um, he was. He, he was. He, he was. He, he was. He,

believe that. I robbed this guy and he went to the police. Right. So, crazy. So what happened? How did the police catch up with you? Okay, so I robbed the guy in, I'm staying at the time, I'm staying at this girl's house. Name of Shanoe, not that it matters. And I robbed him in her apartment complex parking lot like an idiot. We're counting through the loot. I got like all this shit on her bed. Like, all going through the loot all happy smoking blunts the phone starts ringing the house phone her mom who's a tiny old mexican lady picks it up and it's the douglas county sheriffs and they're like hey we have the house surrounded we know lucas is in there uh everyone get the fuck out and i think the reason

they did that rather than coming because i thought i had a weapon okay that's why they had the beady guy right they didn't know as we began to say. Yeah. But, um, so they all go outside. I'm under her dad's bed, Francisco Castro, shouts out to Cuba. I'm under her dad's bed and, um, like, eating pills and, like, trying to, like, shove drugs up my ass. And I just hear the cops say, Lucas, we know you're in there. If you don't come out, we're going to send the dog.

And, you know, we've all watched cops and shit. We've all seen it. I'm like, fuck that. You know, fuck the dog. I was like, I'm coming out. And I came out. There's a bunch of pigs or, excuse me, a bunch of cops with rifles and, you know. Right.

There's some good cops out there, I mean. There's some good cops out there. So they grab you. Yeah. They bring you downtown. They charge you with robbery? It was a decent list of charges. It was an aggravated robbery with a real and or simulated weapon,

conspiracy to commit aggravated robbery. with a real and or semiated weapon, contributing to the delinquency of a minor because when I robbed that kid, Chanel's younger brother, who was 16 at the time, was in the car with me while we robbed a dude. I was 19 or 18, but I took his case from him, just so you all know.

So contributing to delinquency of a minor, theft of a person, and I think conspiracy the theft of a person or something. But then I pled it down to, conspiracy to commit aggravated robbery. And mind you, when they brought me downtown and they showed me all those listed charges, the cops like, you know you're facing up to 32 years. I was like, no.

What do you mean? I'm facing 32 years. Yeah, you're facing 32 years. They asked me, always ask for a lawyer, man. Never talk to the cops. Ever. Always just request a lawyer. If they say guilty people don't ask for lawyers, say,

Sorry, sir, but I'm not versed in the law. I would like a professional here just so I don't, you know, mess up. I didn't do that. I talked to them like an idiot, and they're like, we know you robbed them, blah, blah, blah. I said, no, no, no, that's not what happened. I said, the guy pulled up, we were all just going to smoke, and he pulled out some brown, and I fucking lost it. I said, what the hell is that? And I took it from him.

I tried, you know, talking myself out of it. I said, Christian didn't have nothing to do it. They said, so what about the gun, blah, blah, blah. So there's no gun. They said, well, we found a BB gun. I said, well, it's not a gun. You know, I didn't have it. They just, you know, brought me to classifications after that.

They believe you. On my merry way. Well, you know, it's not a matter of believing you. It's just you have the charges now go, have fun in court, you know. So they, but you said they did go through his phone. And that's how they, that's what they, why they pled it all the way down. to is that part of why they played down? Maybe.

Maybe. I think it was more just like this is clearly a junkie with a BB gun. I robbed a drug dealer and it's not, you know, he's robbing old ladies at the ATM. Yeah, it's not robbing a regular citizen. You know, I really wasn't. Right. Yeah. So you end up with four years.

Yep. You go to, you. So I initially took a four-year deal to community corrections. Okay. So I got a sweet deal. Sweet deal. I just fucked it off. So yeah, I go to the halfway house. Okay. That's what community corrections is. Oh, I thought community corrections was like the prison.

No, no, no, no. It's like, well, I guess a halfway house is technically a level one prison. It's a level one prison. But it's a place where a bunch of folks stay, usually same gender and they leave for work every day. Right. Okay. You have to pay rent, blah, blah, blah, blah. drug testing, breathalizers. You know the drill, right? Yeah. I think they have a Fed version.

Yeah, I might have seven months. Okay. So we have a Fed probation halfway house. Okay. On federal, which is a street. Okay, so I go, I'm at this halfway house, man. And I'm doing really good. I'm sober for the first time and a long time.

And I have a decent chunk of sobriety under me about seven months at the time, which for me was huge. So I'm in the halfway house. I'm working. I'm doing very good. Morgan. Morgan Rose Tarts, my girlfriend at time. She ends up passing away.

And it really fucks me up. Okay. And I relapse. In the halfway house. Okay. And what, do you get drug tested or? Yeah, I'm getting drug tested a little time. No, I'm saying.

Is that how they find out? Yeah. What do they do? The first one, they're like, yo, what the fuck. You technically have three warnings in Colorado. The first one, they're pissed. They're like, what the fuck? I'm in such a depressed state.

I didn't give a shit. But at the time, I was overdosing so much. I would pick up a half gram and just drop the whole thing in the spoon. It sounded like I was dropping a pebble in the spoon. I mean, it was big, big shots. Like I said, overdosed all the time. I remember one time I overcame. I overdosed in the King Supers bathroom.

I woke up from the overdose halfway under the bathroom door. So I'd fallen from the toilet and gone like halfway into the door. I see about five pairs of boots around me. And I'll crawl back under the door, put my spoon, all my stuff away, open the door, and there's all the King Super staff and the security guard right there. And I just pushed through them, walk to the bus, I stopped, took it a few blocks down, walking in the halfway house. It was bad. It was stuff like that. Okay. Okay. And, man, eventually, it just, it got so bad. I'm starting to lose all this weight. It gets to the

second drug test, I fail. And then the third. And now they're like, hey, you're about to go to prison. We're about to kick you out the halfway house. This is where the LF comes in. Okay. Yeah. I take it after a couple months of being on a sick one and it saved my life man it changed everything it didn't save me from going to prison because i had failed the drug test already and so one of the you'd failed the third one and when i was tripping on all the dose on the on the on the l i'd been smoking a bunch of grass so that was my fourth but i had gotten clean i'd successfully withdrawn kicked in the halfway house out of my own volition using LIS. Yeah, at this point, I'd already failed too many drug tests for a dope. So they converted it from a four-year community correction sentence over to a DOC sentence.

And what is that conversion? It basically just means you have lost your privilege of day for day? Yeah. Four years converts to four years inside? Correct. No, that's not right. No, no, no, no. You still have your time that you did in the halfway house. Yeah. Still, but that doesn't that. I'm not saying you're wrong. That's not right. Like, I shouldn't have to do it. That's like, to me, that's like I've got to, if you have a five year, let's say you have a four years of probation. Okay.

Typically what, and you, let's say you pissed dirty a few times. Okay. Let's say you've done. So they typically will convert it to 33, in the federal system, it's typically 33% of whatever you have remaining. Really? Yeah. So let's say you had, you did a year. You pissed dirty.

They violate you. They say you have three years left of paper that we're going to send you. you back inside for one year and they quush your paper. Okay. You're saying day for day? Day for day. That's just wrong. Yeah.

But I kind of look at it like they gave me this huge opportunity. And you fucked it up. And I fucked it up. Right. So I mean, I don't know. But yeah, I mean, I was terrified, never been in prison, not a gang member. And yeah, like 140 pounds soaking wet, something like that, 150 pounds soaking wet. Right.

At the yard. What level? Do they have levels? They do. Okay. So it's the same as Cali, one through four. They send me to a level three yard, bro. So level four would be... Level four is like...

Like a camp almost? CSP... No, no, no, no, no. Level one's a camp. Oh, okay. Level four would be like San Quentin and Cali. And you went to three? I went to three.

Why? Because of the robbery in my age and all that. Oh, yeah. So they... You know the feds that point you out different? Each state, they obviously do is, well, for Colorado, they send you this place called DRDC. The Denver, or it's the diagnostic reentry.

I forget. Anyway, it's a classification spot. And they pointed, they point people out. Well, mine were above 15 points. So I was considered medium. And in a crime. Right. Whether it was a BB gun or not, you used a weapon.

I made someone fear for their life. Yeah. And you, you were placing a drug program. and you fail that. Right. So the combination of all those. And a couple priors. Right.

And so they're looking at you like, this guy's, he's a waste. He's a criminal. He's a waste. There's no reason. Fingo. Put more time into him. He's a problem.

If he's a problem on the outside, he's going to be a problem in prison, send him to a three. Exactly. Okay. Which is actually, in my opinion, counterproductive for first time. Because you're almost extending the criminality of someone

or accentuating it by putting them in a higher custody level of joint. I get you have to for certain circumstances, but I don't know. It really is a con college. Yeah. Well, I was going to say they stopped being concerned about the inmates' well-being at that point. I remember I had talked to a judge one time about a guy that I'd done a story on, and they kept, you know, he kept, he kept actually escaping from like these routine programs. But at some point he basically, they even stopped arresting him. I mean, they stopped.

Sorry, they stopped incarcerating him. And he was like, well, he said, you know, he said, you get to a point where it's like this person, we can't continue to invest in this person to try and fix them. So we're going to wait until he's an adult. And then he'll get in trouble and he'll go to a prison. Right. You know, he's like, and he said, because that's where he's headed anyway. Like, he was just like, we're going to try a few times. And then it's like, okay, well, we're just wasting resources.

You're right. I mean, it is an investment. Ultimately, you're going to stop investing in a lost cause. Yeah. So what happens then? Okay. So I, uh, I basically prepared myself. Um, you know, so you don't pushups. Yeah. Looking in the mirror, having long talks with myself and my scratched up mirror. Well, I did have a couple talks to myself in the mirror. But, um, no, I mean, I, I did. I started psychologically prepare myself trying to work out all that shit um and and basically i just anyone that's never been in the joint you see movies you see all that stuff growing up and that's what you expect right so i was just like i'm not going to let myself get punked i'm going to stand up for myself and i'm going to try not to catch another case or join a gang and uh i did i can honestly say

even though i was a junk box on the street and all that bro i did my time fucking militantly. I mean, seriously, I was, I was like an ideal independent would. Work out,

never did drugs, read, educated myself, got my GED. I mean, I was, I was on point in prison, man.

Okay. How much time did you do? Did you do three years? No, I didn't do all, or sorry, altogether I did about three and a half. If you include

county time, halfway house, and then the two prison yards I walked. Okay. So, So did you go to, do they release you in Colorado to a halfway house or they just walk, you walk out of prison? No.

So the first prison I went to is Crowley County Correctional Facility. When I got, what's it called? When I was up for my halfway house again and I got it the second time, that was about after a year being in Crowley. Okay. Crowley was fucked up. How much? How much? Oh, okay.

Well, how was that? It was just a messed. It's a private prison. It's only two private prisons in Colorado now. And, yeah, I mean, it was just terrible. Just gangs, drugs, everywhere and mad violent. For real, it was like top three violent prisons in Colorado. They asked me to join.

The main white supremacist gang, for those of you that don't know in Colorado, it's called 211 crew. It's not Aryan Brotherhood. It's not Aryan syndicate. It's called 211. I actually believe they made it to the feds. recently. But they're real gnarly guys. Right.

Yeah. They're not like the other white supremac... No, they are. They're all the same. White supremac groups that are friendly and... No. Oh, yeah. You know, those guys are cool.

Yeah. Yeah, they're all... They're all gnarly. There's some good guys. I'm sure you've met them. But for the most part, I didn't mess with any of that. So... So you eventually...

Shelly went to a halfway house and fucked up again. No, you did not. Yeah. But this time. You need to make better decisions. Hey, she saved my life. She saved my life. Okay.

She saved my life the second time. But, no, I mean, I messed up, man. Same shit. I don't know why I relapsed. I couldn't tell you, but I did. Too many hot drug tests went back. This time, however. I was, I had made that transition in my head where I had started to hate the substance more than I enjoyed it.

And I was, I could honestly say I was ready at that point. Okay. I just had to go do more time. Yeah. Did you go back to the halfway house again or the next time they didn't hook out the game? No, I got paroled the next time. Okay. Yeah.

When I got sent back to, I went to a weird little prison called Shion Mountain. since been closed down. Nice. Yeah. Right. Sounds like a retreat. Right. Sounds lovely.

Yeah. But no, it was actually the weirdest detention facility I've ever been in. It was built like an office building. It was in the middle of Colorado Springs, which is odd. And, yeah, it was a four-story office building with a barbed-wired fence around it. And it was the shittiest time I've ever done. Eight to ten, man. rooms dry cells mixed custody level what's a dry cell what dry cell meaning the bathrooms outside of

yourself oh okay so you have to you know so you so when you're you're released you who where'd you go did you go to your parents house once my grandma's house yeah grandma yeah she'd never let me stay there before i mean i'd been kicked out you know up until that point it was huge it was a big you know trust for my family. So what, did you get a job? Yeah, I mean, I got out and for once in my life, I did what I had said.

I kept my word, I got a job, met my wife, and I just started working my ass off, man. What was the job? The first job. It was at a pizza spot. It was like a shitbox job. And then from there, I eventually started, I realized my

what I had done catching the felonies and the tattoos and all that limited me it's all starting to sink in finally you're like oh fuck you know all these decisions all whatever and told me is true it's all starting to sink in so I realized the trades were going to be

you know my best route in terms of shitty jobs so yeah I started focusing on trades got a car to or got a job at a car shop and then started doing construction So I have my buddy, my LSD story, I told you, I have an LSD story. I have a buddy named Donnie Shackleford. Okay.

And Donny was super smart. And he loved the Grateful Dead. I'm not sure if you loved the Grateful Dead. I'm not sure how it exactly. I do. How it exactly, if it was before. before, after it, the L. But he started doing Ellis.

Very smart guy and was online. Keep in mind, this is like the Internet. There's like the dark web and stuff, right? So. He was on the dark web? Yeah. Gotcha. Like this is in its infancy, early 2000. Like Silk Road, uh,

I don't know, I don't know what the ones are. But I'm saying, because I'm saying it's, we're talking about early 2000, in 2001, 2002. Like it's just starting, right? Like he's there. So he actually meets, I forget the guy. who started LFD and was a huge what was it I don't know if he's still alive was a huge proponent of it He actually went and met with him Albert Hoffman I don't think it was Owsley yes Augustus owsley Stanley the third yes yes okay so he met him rest in peace bear at a convention

He'd been buying it and was trying to Put together a lab and he he actually meets with him and they have like a very he's like a very frank conversation about it And he asked to order, he orders, put together a whole lab. And it was very professional. Like, I remember he had actually got, there was some. He got Ergartenamine tartrate and everything. I mean, he had the precursors and everything.

Wow. Everything. Listen, when they caught him, the paper said, he had $20 million worth of, it would have been street level or street product. Yeah, he didn't have that much on him. He had the precursors. He said, had I made it, he said, he said, I don't, he remember he was like, it wouldn't have been 20. million. He was it was maybe 11. Of a gram of raw crystal.

I mean, that's a lot. Tons. And here's where they were ordering it. Like, they had a way where they were ordering it through Panama. So I figured there was a whole thing. So he sets up a lab. I think he initially set up a lab where he actually, they were making it in the U.S. initially. He was a small lab.

He said, and it was working. He's like, we had a product. I knew the formula. Did this happen to be in Denver? No. No. Okay. So what?

The lab, I don't know. But this part is it, you'll look, you're here. So he does it. And then when he starts doing it, he had these girls. He called them the angels because there was three girls. And what they did was he said, we would meet them at the Grateful Dead concerts. He would give them the, I guess, you know, the papers. The block.

He would give it to them. And, you know, you could tear them off or whatever. It's perforated. He said, we would go and we would give it to them, meet them, give it to them. And then they would go around and sell it. He's like, it's like, it's like $25 or $50 a hit, whatever it was. He's like, they go around and they, you know, and then they bring the money back. And then we, and he talked about like the family, the whole.

He was very, very, you know, what's going on here. So loved it. Eventually what happens with Donnie is once they started ramping up production, he got nervous. He started saying, I'm in the U.S. He goes, you understand that if you get caught making in the U.S. He's like, these are, they're giving people life sentences. Oh, yeah, bro. So he said he researched the country that had the least laws.

And he said it turned out to be pertaining to L specifically. Gotcha. It was, I think it was, was it Amsterdam? So sounds about right. What he did was, and he said it was illegal, still illegal. But like decriminalized. But they don't. He said like if I got caught like I'd get like a year or two.

He's like, you're guys getting caught and they were getting these ridiculous low sentences. But here they'll bury you. He said, here, you're dead. You're dining.

Yeah, yeah. So he moves to St. Martin and he goes to, I guess St. Martin, and I don't know anything about geography.

It's, I think the island's cut up into two different parts. There's like the Dutch side and some other side. I forget, maybe it's St. Bart's or St.

Martin. Is it? So somebody in the comments is going to correct me, but some island, and half of it is like, let's say, And I'm assuming we're talking about the Netherlands.

But it may be it may be somebody else. But somebody owns half that island. He went there, set up a lab, started making it. With Bear, with Owsley? No, no. That was one time. He met one time and had like a 20 minute to an hour of conversation to help him work out the formula, basically. So he goes there, he sets up a lab, and he sets up this lab.

And they've got it so that they're ordering the chemicals, the precursor. or chemicals through, and I'm going to say Panama. They had a Panama. There's a lot of money involved. Oh, yeah. So at one point, and they're ordering the chemicals, he said, at one point, he's been doing it for a couple of years. And I'm literally flying through customs with the paper.

He said he actually got searched one time, and they looked at the paper. It's unperforated white-on-white. Right. And it had the, it already had the, he had little onkses printed all over him. He goes, and the woman takes them. flips them and look and she goes what's this and he looks at her and he goes I'm a um he he he said he was I'm a graphic designer cardstock yeah all he said well he was I'm a graphic designer he said he said didn't really answer her question and and she went oh okay yep and just put it back

and kept going yep so you know and then they would go and give the girls all this stuff and his in his mind he thought he said I'm not manufacturing the United States so I'm not breaking U.S. law and that's not how it works no sir but he didn't know right this is a novice kid in his, well, this kid in his mid-20s at this point, though he doesn't think it's a big deal. Because he thinks I'm not making it here. Like most people would think that. You don't, but most people who are novices to how the system works, figure if I'm outside of the United States, then U.S. law doesn't apply to me.

Yeah, but what about the fact of you're on lot? When I say on law, I mean, Grateful Dead tour at the shows. You're on law trapping. But he's just sell. At that point, he's like, we're just selling. He's like, but it's not as bad as manufacturer. Manufacturing you're doing 30 years. But if you get caught with, you know, let's say, okay, a gram of raw crystal LSD is 10,000 hits.

You get caught with 20, 30 grams or let's say a Bible of blotter, you're probably still going to go do 20 years. You don't think? I don't know. In his mind, he was like, it was like, it would have been like if you plead guilty, if you do this, you don't have it. Either way, I hear what you're saying. In his head, it's way less. Yeah. And a four years sentence.

Right. He's minimized it and justified it. He said, right. Yeah. So he's flying over there. They have a house where they, and they have another place where they manufacture it. They whip the batches. And he said we would mail it to a guy that would then meet the girls.

He's like, we got it. Yeah, the angels. Gotcha. They would pass it out. And he had tons of these great stories. So here's the problem is that he said, when I mailed it through the mail, it gave the then it became a conspiracy and he said so his buddy at one point gets busted this kid gets busted I'm sorry they'd mail the packet okay sorry here's what happened he was ordering the pre

it started with the precursor chemicals probably the erga at one point he said we had been ordering it in small batches and at one point he said we were going to make a big batch it was towards the end of the year he said I wanted to kind of finish out the year like hey let's just order enough and do a bunch of runs, have the pay. Because it was working so well. Right. I might as well just do several runs,

have it here, mail it as we need it. Instead of breaking everything down, so I ordered the one chemical I ordered in a larger quantity. He goes, it tripped a national quantity, whatever. And he said,

and that set the wheels in motion to be, to notify like, whatever the international, you know international law enforcement Interpol's not notified they notified

he said they started a they started an investigation notified DEA well and that investigation led to him they watch him they watch they grab when they see him mail a package

at DSL they grab the package they let the package go through he said because the package usually took like eight days or seven days. But he watched on the tracking. He watched it stop somewhere. He watched it stop for a couple days. Then, and then go, he's like, and I should have known. Yes. He said, but you know, everything was going so good. And I thought everything was fine. He said, and I still thought, you know what? It doesn't even matter. He said, because, like, I'm not breaking any U.S. law. I'm in the United States. Right. I'm not in the U.S. Well, that kid, they let it go to the kid's house. He signs for it.

They grab him. Okay. The kid immediately rolls over on him. Right. naturally the dutch or whoever the authorities that run that island st. Croix? I think it was I could just want to St. Bart's or something one of these islands is cut in two. So he ends up, they surround the house, they grab him. It actually, it's funnier than that. He's got a whole funny story about how they watched him. They've got to the house.

They're monitoring the house, surveying the house. He leaves to go mail, pick up something at DSL. and they basically they they they he realizes they're coming for him and he runs he's trying to run to the bay and jump in the bay he said I had a friend that had a sailboat that was actually out there he's like I'm gonna swim to it he said if I could just make it to the sailboat and I remember he was telling the story I go did you make it he said I didn't even make it to the bay bro they tackled me oh yeah he's like they're way faster you even make it out the front door you guys are way faster than you think and um and so anyway

He gets grabbed. He fought extradition. They kept him. They kept me in what was once like a five-star hotel. He said, that's where they kept us. They'd converted it into a detention facility. It was built into a five-star hotel. It was in disrepair.

They took it over. They turned it into a prison. He said, I mean, it was a nice prison. So he stayed there for fought extradition or, I want to say, a few years. Because here's what happened was... They were semi-leaning, right? The country he was... I want to say it was like 18 months to two years.

Because he wanted to be... Like, he didn't want to go to the United States. Fuck, no. So, but eventually he... I think he lost it. He lost extradiction. When he got to the United States... Oh, I know what it was.

They were trying to give him a life sentence. And they said, we're not... You're going to lose... We're not sending this guy to the United States to give him so you can give him something like. for something we would give him a few years for. Right. So they took, they had to take that off the table.

So then they extradited him. I want to say it was 18 months to two years. So he goes to United States. Wow. So the country pressured the U.S. to drop the life. Drop the life. We're not, we're not extraditing him. That's pretty cool of them to do that. But they do that a lot of times with like the, a lot of countries do that with the death penalty.

They're like, we have a similar law. He can't get the death penalty for that or he can't get life for that. So we're not sending our citizen to do life in your country. He couldn't get it here. And so the government will take that off the table. But it still took years. He was really trying to fight. He was trying to fight even having broken the law.

And so they had to agree he'd broken U.S. law in their country. So that's what took so long. So much gray area. Well, first they finally said, okay, he has broken the law. Then they said, great, send them back. We're giving them life. Then it was we're not sending them back to give you a life. He'll stay here.

Like, we'll let him out and he'll just live the rest of his life here. And then they went, then they said, okay, we'll take life off the table. So he goes back to the United States. When he goes to the United States, they're trying to give him 30 years. He said, I'm going to trial. Basically life. Right. Well, he said, I'm going to trial.

Yeah. So I remember he was going to trial. And I do remember this part pretty clearly. It was 30 years. He said, I'm going to trial. He said the problem was the rules regarding evidence. There were different here. There's discrepancies.

Well, they'd already destroyed all the evidence. And they'd taken his lab apart. They had photos, but he said they took the lab apart. He's like, well, you can't even present the photos in the United States unless you can provide the equipment. Right. The equipment doesn't exist. Oh. And he's like, so I was like, I'll go to trial because you have no evidence.

Right. And the people that arrested him, you'd have to fly those people. to the United States. So this takes about a year of fighting. And a new prosecutor comes in and says, okay, look, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you a deal. I'm going to give you 20 years.

And he's like, nothing's changed. I'm going to trial. Period. Unless you offer four or something like that. Right. So he had already done about four or five years. The next prosecutor comes in. The next prosecutor comes in.

and says, I'm going to give you 15 years. Fuck you. Yeah, fuck you. He keeps the way a new prosecutor comes in. This is what I'm going by. It's now since he's been arrested. He's shot through. I think five years.

The guy comes in and says, I'm going to give you 10 years. And I'm going to recommend that you get the drug program will give you a year off. So on 10 years, you do 80. Back then, you get less. Time served. Already got half a decade in. Well, you got more, you get, okay, more now, you get more good time now than you did then. Back then, you got 15%.

So on 10 years, you do 85. So he was going to, he was, he's like, so I had eight and a half years left to do. I'm sorry, he had eight and a half on the 10 plus halfway house. He goes, plus I had already done like almost five. Right. So I've got three and a half years and I get the drug program. So he was like, I get a year off for the drug program. He's like, so now I'm down to two years.

Yeah, that's a sweet fucking deal. Right. And, by the way, he also gets six months to a year of halfway house. So now we're talking about a year and a half. Yeah. So by the time he gets, he gets to Coleman, he's there a month. They put him in the drug program. And he was a motherfucker in the drug program because he was so smart.

Right. And he wanted to argue about everything. Right. He loved to argue. So he ends up going through the drug program. He does get, I don't know if he gets recycled or not, but basically he does get the, he gets the year off. Then they put him for a halfway house. He goes to the halfway house.

He ended up doing six and a half. Yeah, something like that. A lot less. He goes to a halfway house. Pretty good deal. Yeah. And then he ended up going to California. And I talked to him on the phone a couple times when I was locked up.

Gotcha. Just the nicest guy. I would have loved. I was writing. I don't know if I was. I was writing. I was writing, but I wasn't writing other guys' stories.

I think I was working in my story when we knew each other. So I had not gotten to the point where I remember saying I wanted to write his story. But he didn't want to work on writing it while he was in the drug program. His fear was that they would find out that we were writing his story. And they would use that. You're glamorizing, you know, your lifestyle. I know the feeling.

They'll throw him out. Yeah. So what he did instead was he, you know, we said we'd work on it when he got out. We never did. I got a couple phone call. I called him a couple times. I didn't get phone calls from him. I called him a couple times.

Right. Name was Donnie Shackleford. And I would love to find Donnie Shackleford. Love to shake that guy's hand. He had a great. And by the story I just told you is one of many. And he had stories with these girls. He had a big thing where this was the fun.

I remember his girlfriend's name. One of the angels or? No, no, no. This was his main girl, his girlfriend's name. Her name was Paradise. No way. She was raised by hippies. He met her at a Grateful Dead concert.

I love this. And here's the thing. She's the one who had access to almost all the money. And I mean, he had like a million some odd dollars. He said, so he would, when he would talk about her, he would get pissed. And he would say, and I'd say, yeah, but I thought you said she gave your return. 20, $200,000. He goes, because she had paid the $200,000 disappeared.

Oh, shit. And he was like, he's like, yeah, yeah. I go, she could have just taken the money. He's like, yeah, hmm. And this wasn't an angry guy. Yeah. You know, but he was, but he was, only time I'd ever see him get angry. And he'd always be like, okay, I'm, I'm okay.

He'd go, well, if I ever find her, well, guess what? He did find her. Oh, shit. They were the last, no, the last phone call I got, they were, They were back together. I was like, I thought you hated her. I thought you said, yeah, you know, I didn't really know. She was scared, bro.

Yeah. She didn't know. She didn't know. The A's looking for people. They're talking to people. And, you know, I wasn't around to answer questions. And, you know, I, and I'm thinking, boy, that must be a nice piece of ass. For real.

$800,000. Really, it was like, it was more than it. It was like a million dollars that she really got to. But I'm saying she didn't pay the $200,000. Right. She still ended up with like a million. Oh, so she got a whole am. Listen.

I. I saw the articles. The articles were like $20 million in enough to make $20 million of an L. Worth of work. Damn. I mean, you know, very, very smart guy. Really liked it. Really liked him.

I would love to find him. But I don't know if you realize this, but I didn't realize this. But it's a very common name. And I'm not great at. Shackle. Yeah, I'm not great with tracking people down, right? I would love to track him down. You guys, do either of you ever watch, or did you ever watch King of the Hill back

the day? I have watched it. Okay, you remember Boomhauer? He's always like, that's his pseudonym. Whenever he doesn't want to be known, he's like rusty Shackleford. But it's just funny that his name is Shackleford. But yeah, I mean, hey, the man shook Owsley's hand. And I want to mention this to you, too.

He had told me a story one time. So remember when you talked about your brain being. kind of rewired. He used to say, Ronnie used to say that. And I don't know if you know about this, because he had told me about this. He had said that,

um, that there had been an experiment where, where, whatever, you know, researchers, whatever brought in a bunch of, back in the 70s or 80s,

where they brought in a bunch of mathematicians that had been working on mathematical problems that they could not solve. And they gave them all else over the course of a few days or something. And then within a week, almost all of them had solved the problem that they'd been working on. Yes. Or he said, or they had realized that they didn't have the information. But they had moved forward in some major capacity.

Rather than being stuck. Right. Because they said the drug had helped. them re-calculate, re-arranged their thought process on how they were approaching the problem. They'd all said, well, what I did was I started, I suddenly realized I was approaching it in the wrong way or I started approaching it from this something. So when you said that about your thing, I was thinking to myself, I was like, fuck, that sounds like, that was like Donnie was there.

Donnie would, well, you know, did you ever hear about such and such experience? He would always. It truly does help you change a perspective. The word I like to use for what that sounds like is called neuroplasticity. Different psychoactive compounds, mainly in the hallucinogenic family, increased neuroplasticity. Just kind of like how those mathematicians were able to come back to the equation and figure it out from a new perspective. But it also increases, well, there's a huge neotropic benefit and cognitive boosting benefit as well. kind of like turkey tail mushrooms or lions main and stuff like that the culinary ones um what was the guy

we had the p uh he had um PTSD when we had a guy this was like a year about two years ago we had he was on PTSD and he was was it was he micro micro dosing it was that um I feel like that was uh probably psil cider mushrooms yeah I think maybe that was it still seven's a compound I'm thinking of uh the guy who makes the documentaries Oh, you're thinking about Seth? Yeah. No, Seth's going to jail. Yeah, Seth, by the way.

Seth, we, Seth's Ferrante. Yeah. Gotcha. Is a guy that went to jail for Ellen. He did like 20 some odd years. Yeah, faked his own death. Faked his own death. Was this the gentleman that was riding around in a bus in England making it or my?

No, no. Okay. He wasn't making it at all. He was just selling. Oh, okay, got you. But he did. He faked his up. He was an under indictment.

And so he. He faked his own death. Faked out what, like with pig's blood? No, no, no. Like people were unaliving themselves at this specific part in a river. And it was known for it. So he makes sure that a couple sees him go up to this area. And then he leaves like his clothes there or something.

And then he leaves a note and whatever. And then he kind of sneaks off. And so people report that this, we saw this guy. guy go up there. He never came back down. Later, another couple went up and they see this stuff. So he faked his own. Yeah. Yeah. And they literally, they dragged the river and the whole thing. The problem is where he jumped from. He said, I jumped from the other part of the river, the other side or something or wherever the area was. He's like, it brings your body to a certain area. And he said, and they find you. Correct. He's like, they searched and searched and searched. And they never found me.

He's like, so they believe within three or four days, they came back and they said, we, think that this was a hoax. We think this guy is faking. They figured it out pretty quick. And then they caught him months later or something. Right. And the traffic stop or some stupid shit. So it only made things worse.

Yeah. Isn't that a huge felony? A federal one at that? 30 years and did 20 something? He got 30 years for L? I think he went to trial. He's a maniac. Do you know the weight?

No. But you can, I can send, I'll send you his video. Yeah, I would love to. He talks about the experiences. He talks about, whole thing. What was the other thing? And then now he recently got busted. Well, he got out of prison. He used to write for vice. No way. He wrote for vice. Oh, that was my dream when I was a kid. Wrote for Vice. He got out. He started, you ever seen a, um, White Boy Rick? The documentary.

I didn't, but she's from Detroit and I need to watch it. So he, the documentary, he worked with, he's listed, he's not the producer. He's like an executive producer. Is a co-defendant? No, as an executive producer. for the documentary. Gotcha. So he did that. Then he started making his own documentary. He raised about half a million dollars from investors.

They started making their own documentary. So he had this documentary company. He ends up getting busted for, um, but while he's doing this, while he's raising the money, he's still trapping. He's still, he's moving. Busted for that goes, gets bond. I mean, he gets, um, sorry, he gets probation for that, gets off probation, recently got caught again for pot for pot.

Gotcha. And then what was he? other thing. And then the other day, there was a video that was posted of him fighting or arguing with his girlfriend or something where he's screaming, the video camera's outside of the house and he's screaming. And he's yelling at, I want my stuff. He's screaming, blah, blah, blah. And he walks up to the door and boom. He kicks in the door. The video gets cut off at that point. So I don't know that he entered the house. I think maybe he kicked the door and it went open. Still, though, probably not expecting. Breaking the threshold. Yeah. Of a dwelling.

So he's probably going to prison. For sure. Like if you were going to, he might have got awful in the moving the drugs. Maybe he, I don't know what state it was. I don't know. Maybe we've got a year or two.

Maybe we've got probation again. I don't know. And as he told, he's definitely going to. Yeah, he's a lunatic. Yeah, I just, yeah, I forgot. That's a B&E, bro.

That's a B&E. Yeah. Most states don't find that funny. No. But, you know, he was furious, so you just tell him in the little video, I was like, wrong. I shouldn't laugh, but it's funny.

Because I've seen that happen. It sucks. But it's too bad because he was well on his, he seemed like he was well on his way. He was really came as to. Dude, he had a documentary company. And he had one. He'd done multiple.

He had a whole, we went to CrimeCon. This was probably a year ago. And he was there. We all went out to dinner with a couple other people that we knew. And he had a whole, whole game plan. Yeah, he definitely.

He was, listen, he was, it is very, on point. Very impressive. He had a whole game plan, And whether or not it was going to work out or not, I don't know. But he sure as hell seemed like he had it together. We've watched his documentaries. Dude, he worked for advice. I mean, he clearly had credentials.

Yeah, and he's got his calling card. Of course, is white boy Rick. Right. Which is huge. Yeah. Yeah. He's, uh, he was doing it. I mean, I don't know.

It seems like things are falling apart now, but, you know, who know. Damn inflation. Economy's got everyone trapping again, huh? Once again, maybe just like we were talking about during, like, our break. Maybe it's just the thrill. Right? I can't imagine being it. I don't know.

I would think being a documentary producer would be exciting. Like I would love to be able to do that. Especially with White Boy Rick under your belt. Right. To be able to be a part of that would be so, so cool to me. But maybe that's not enough for him. The old thrill of the road. Yeah, he does.

Get himself reprogram. Knock the cobwebs out of there. You know what story? I thought you were going to tell with the cop and the shot glass. No. Let's hear that one. You know why? Because that so many people like this was a story that was told to me by Donnie.

Right. But so many people in the comment section were like, that's an urban legend, that never happened. That's a, you know, I've heard that story from other people. That didn't happen to your buddy. They would think that. But they did it so much that I thought, I did it. I could have swore that Donnie said that this is what had happened to him. But this is fucking 10, 15.

years ago. Like, people were so adamant that it's, that they'd heard the story from other people, that it was an urban legend. So I'm going to tell you this story. So I'm going to tell you this is what Donnie. It's not the orange juice. No. I believe this is what I, as far as I can recall, this is what Donnie had told me happened one time. Right.

In his buddy are driving to meet the angels. Okay. So they're driving in a van. To drop them off work, presumably. Just to drop, right. Right. So he said the night before what they'd stayed in a, um, in a. in a hotel. Okay.

He said, we had the blotter paper, and he said, they had taken like eye drop, like an eyedropper or something. He said, you know, you take it and you drop it, one drop per dose. He said, that's a dose. Right. Based on how much the water, it's mixed with the chemical, whatever. He said, that was a dose. Right.

And he had explained, too, that he's like, now you can have it. It could be 10 doses. He said, if you just have to mix it more potent, he said, but this is like one dose per tablet, whatever. Correct. He's like, and each tablet is five bucks or 10, whatever it is, 20. I don't know. No, it's about five or 10.

Okay. So he said we're dosing it. Boom, boom, boom, boom. So we have a stack done. He said, well, we were pulling it out of a shot glass. He is at the end of it, there's a little bit of residue. He said, it's liquid. He knock it back? No. He said, so I sat it down. He said, well, we pack up the next morning, we pack up all of our stuff. He said, I grab it. He said, I grab it. He said, but it's completely dry now. He said, but there's a residue at the bottom. And he said, you know, you can you can remix that and I could get it out. But he said, or take it or whatever. He said, so I take it. I grab everything. We put everything in the van, whatever. We jump in the van. He said, I take the shock lattice and I drop it into the cup holder thing.

He said, we're driving in a van. He said, and look at me. No, no, he just said, look at me. He's like, I'm on my way to a Grateful Dead concert. Right. I'm driving a van with another guy that looks like me. He's like, we look like we have drugs on. They have like heads.

Yeah, yeah. So we're driving. He said, we could pull. pulled over by a cop. Oh shit. Cop says, you know, he'll open, they, he's, let me look through the van. He opens the back doors. He kind of looks around.

He says, but the van's pretty much empty. He opens a bag or two, whatever. He kind of looks. He's like, but he doesn't see anything that he recognizes, right? He goes, and he kind of just doing a cursory kind of, he doesn't search, right? He's kind of looking. And I don't know if he opened the back doors. Maybe he looked in there, but he doesn't find whatever they have.

Yeah. He said, and while he's looking, he grabs the shot glass and he goes, what's this? Oh, no. And he said, he said, he touched it. He said something like, Donnie goes, it's a shock glass. He goes, we had, and he said he had something in it the night before, whatever. He said it was benign. So it sounds, and like, oh, it's such and such.

We were doing shots or whatever. And he said, the guy touches his finger and does this on his tongue. And he said, literally he said, when he did it, he said, he and his buddy both went. Like, he's like, like, like, it was a reaction that I remember both of the. I was like, oh my God, what did he just do? He's like, and he was like, you know, he did it. And he goes, all right, you can go. He said he dosed himself with 100 doses.

He said that's how potent that was. Laterly, bro. At least, I mean, maybe like 70, but still, that's just crazy. So he said, we'd get in the car and start driving. And I mean, we race all the way there. So my God. We pull in, we find the girls. I think that maybe they had dropped the stuff.

Whatever it was, they go and they try and find the girls. because I remember they found the girls and told the girls dumped everything. Oh, they found the girls on law at the concert. Yeah, they went to the concert. Maybe he'd come from the concert

and was going back. I don't know. But he said, he goes back there. He said, we find the girls and we're like, dump everything. We just dose a fucking cop. He's like, we don't go back to the van. He's like, the van is rented.

Like, we're not going back to the van. He's like, we have to find a place somebody that will get us. And he said, so while we're getting, finding the girls, he goes, there's tons of people here. It's not easy to find these chicks. That takes a while.

Because by the time we find, them and we're telling them what happened get your shit and go he said we see the cops are everywhere and there's one cop they've got the one cop walking around and he's all like he's looking and he's he's there he's trying to ID them

yeah but that's fun he's right he's they said you could see like these guys are holding him yeah and he's like looking yeah and so that was it he said he said we end up getting a ride or something we get out of there and he left the van and he said I was fucking terrified And threw a shot head when they jumped out with everything. They took a shot glass, threw it away.

Like they, he's like, but yeah, we dosed him. He said, God knows what. He said, let me tell you right now. He said, if you've been dosed, you've never done it before. He says, it's your first time. He said, you don't know what's happening. Oh, yeah, it's a super scary experience. He was going through hell.

I've gotten raw on my fingers before. It's gnarly. So that was the story that so many people, it did great, by the way. Yeah. So the video did well. But there were so many people in the, the comment section saying you're lying that i believe that no i will make so i will take that story that he just told and i'll cut out all the and he said and he said and this and it'll it'll it'll

sound like matt is telling us firsthand like i did it like i did this i did that and then all the people that have heard the story before are going to be like they're going to be in the comment section this guy lies so much bro he's done he's done he's living the thousand lives he's so full of shit yeah but he never did but those those of us that like are tapped in know the that that's a real story bro yeah because it does when it evaporates it does leave a crystal residue on the inside of the vial or whatever shock glass wherever you're using um so i mean it's very possible and the amount that that cop probably ingested was probably north of 50 hits you know he you and the other thing people will do is like if i just throw out a number

Well, I'm like, you know, like at one point when I said they were giving out the tablets, I was like, you know, they were like, whatever, 20 box or 15. Like, people will start screaming, he's lying. They sell those tablets for $5. They, I'm just throwing out a number. I don't know what they cost. Y'all need to be easy on Matt and Kobe. Well, it's good.

Because the thing is, these are, these are TikToks and Instagram reels where they're not people who sit in a lot, watch a whole podcast. This is some random guy who's just scrolling. Gotcha. So they don't, you know, people on the internet are just people. people. But that, I say that because like, the engagement is good. Like, good or bad? It's all good. It's good. Well, and I could see them down or, you know, zoning in on the little discrepancies like he sold the hit for 50 bucks and then later being he sold the hit for five bucks. But when you're having an organic conversation, it's flown. I don't know exactly.

I know if they're going for 10 or 15 or 20. But that part doesn't matter. Yeah. And keep mind, too, if you're dosing, maybe if the dose, if there are 10 doses on each, tablet then maybe they are selling them for 20 bucks I don't know you know yeah oh and usually usually the rule of thumb is usually the rule is if it's your friend or family five bucks four bucks if it's a custody meaning like some rando 20 25 bucks but 10 bucks 15 but um yeah he he said they that cop probably had the best day of his life that those those girls would walk around and um he said like they would he said oh he said Which are these angels?

He's like it's almost, it's almost, um, uh, he was like, he said like they literally just kind of walk around and they, they say, you know, like they'll say L, L. L. Some dose doses. Doses. $5 an L, whatever the cost is, you know, L. And he's like, he's like, they're, they just walk around and say they can openly do it there.

And I'm like, they're not like, how do they? Because I remember when he was telling me, I was like, how did they get customers? He's like, just walk around. Yeah. He's like, they're all fam, bro. Yeah, they are. like, it really is. Not all of them are fam, most

them. Right. But there's no real trouble there is what he said. You're not going to get any problems from them. So it's a community based off of love. Love hugs and good energy. But yeah, there's still some

shady characters in the fam. Yeah, there's always going to be that. What an interesting guy though, I'd love to shake his hand. That's what I'm saying. I would, I would, he had I wish I had And I did, that's not even true

Because I did try He did, I remember he didn't Because we did start to write like an outline Oh, the book And he stopped. He wouldn't do it. He was like, I was like, let me lay an outline.

I can write it without you. You know, it might not be perfect, but I can write it without you If I just get an outline And he, And we started and I think he was so nervous. It was no, no, no, we'll do it later.

We'll do it once I finish. Once you finish, you're going to a halfway house. No, no, we'll still have some time. And we didn't have time. I was working on something else, and we needed a week or two to work on the outline, and it didn't happen. But he had some great stories that he could have told. It would have made a great synopsis.

Would have made a great 20 or 30 page story. I don't know about the whole week. It sounds like it. I don't know if I'm sure I could have written an entire book. But even if I had just been able to turn it into a synopsis, right? A mini bio or whatever, yeah. You know, and I just, like I said, you see how my memory is. Like, I don't know enough in detail.

You got a pretty good memory. Listen, do you remember the times I told, I mentioned that story about playing risk? Mm-hmm. So, Donnie was one of the guys playing risk with me at the thing, when the guys are all yelling at each other and screaming. And we were, so we were, we were, when I first got locked up, a guy told me one time, he's like, you know, because I remember, I remember, I can't do this. I can't do this. He's like, listen, he said, you're not going to believe this right now. he is which you're going to meet

some of the most amazing people you've ever met in your life in federal prison. True. He says, and there will be a time when you are laughing and joking with these guys

and you are going to think to yourself there's no place I'd rather be. For a moment. Yeah, or just a moment. And I remember I looked at him and I thought, I was like,

you're fucking crazy. That's never going to happen. But it happened. Yeah. Probably five years later. It was me and Donnie and there's like three other guys and we're playing

risk. Remember how risk takes forever. You can't play two hours risk. It's a 12 hour game. And we can't. And you can never, you can't sit down for 12 hours in prison with a bunch of guys from different units. So that game, each game would last days. Oh, we had a chart.

You know, you have so many people with Bulgaria. You got 12 this. You got 14 armies here. You got this. So we would go and somebody would check it out and set up the whole board, whatever. The point is that we're sitting there one day. We're ordering soda. You know, they'll get the soda guy. Right, right, right.

We're ordering soda and we're, hey, give him, let me get some coffee. Make a burrito. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can breathe. Give it over here. And so we got our food and we're sitting there. We've been playing for an hour. Dr. And like, you know, Donnie has a deal with this guy.

Todd, don't. And if you promise not to invade me here, I won't, I won't invade. The game's getting deep. Right. You got, we got, we got, what do they call them? Alliances. So some guys are alliances. some guys have we have an agreement we i can fight you here here but i will not invade you here

right but i need to move my army but you have to promise okay so now we have a pass right with a and so we're sitting there one day and suddenly this it's his this guy's turn i say is donnie's turn and he has um an agreement not to invade like alaska or something and he takes like he has a good spin and he takes all of his this guy and the other guy by the way the guy in Alaska has moved all of his troops out. All right he's like we're hit Donnie takes all of his troops

and puts him boom like right into Russia and he's like what are you doing? He's like bro I'm sorry I mean I can't go into here and I can't hear I'm stuck I the only place he's like we have an agreement and he's like I know and I feel bad bro what the fuck so they're screaming

and the whole time this whole thing thing is happening when they're coming up with this agreement. We're, I don't want him to invade me. So I'm going, you can't trust this motherfucker. Are you serious? He's a drug dealer. You're a con man.

What do you know? I know drug dealers. He's like, you're a fraudster. Yeah, exactly. So we're screaming. And so sure enough, like he invades. But we were screaming and laughing so hard. And I had that moment.

I remember thinking, there was nowhere. Like, this is a great group of guys. Isn't that crazy? Those moments. Nowhere I'd rather be. And in last year, it doesn't stay, but it does. No, but you have those moments. Yes.

Yes. And that was one of those moments. And when I had that moment, I remember immediately it was like, it was like deja vu. Right. Like it hit me. And I remember the conversation from five years ago. The guy saying that moment's going to happen. You know, I can tell you right now, we were leaning on the rail.

On the top tier. We were on the top tier, leaning on the rail. I was in Marshall's custody. I was in Union City. jail in the marshal's custody though right in Atlanta and we're sitting there and i'm leaning and i'm and i can remember the guy who was telling me that wow and i just remember and that moment hit me and i thought you know that that's a really that's a very interesting story you just brought up because there are those moments whether you're just laughing with your celly telling stories or

playing a good game of pinnuckle or you know watching a movie with the fellas where you guys are just laugh and and and it really does feel like you're in a garage with your family at a barbecue sign. I mean, it really does feel like that. It's crazy. But, you know, doesn't last. You wake up that next day or whatever. And you're like, oh, there's a white brick wall right.

Oh, was I woke up for 10 years. My first thought by waking up for 10 years was a fuck, I'm still in prison. Right. What about this? When you have a dream that you're in prison and you wake up in prison, that's the best. Have you ever had that? Does? Yeah, I've talked about that before.

Oh, it's the worst. It took me about about three, two to three years before I stopped dreaming about the outside. And I, you know, you have like a year or so conversion. Right. All my dreams started being just about prison. Because keep in mind, I did 13 years. Yeah. So after about three or four years, you only dream about being in prison.

And so then I'm in prison dreaming about nothing but prison. Dude, and it's, you do not wake up feeling rested after those dreams. You're like, oh, I'm waking up. Then you see the wall, you see your cell, and you're like, oh, my fucking God. You know, I just spent the whole night doing this. Now I'm waking up doing it. It sucks, man. I'm happy you're out, brother.

Happy you're out, man. That's pretty crazy. Out of curiosity, in the feds, so you guys don't have TVs at all in yourselves, right? No, not yourself. Okay. See, that was a big difference for the state. We had TVs, like little clear plastic glass. Wow, I would never leave my, there's no reason to leave the cell.

Right. Well, the reason I bring it up is because I feel like it does keep the violence down to a certain degree. Oh, absolutely. I've said that over and over again. The TVs are, they're babysitters. Right. Like, they were always threaten us to take away the TV. I'm taking away for a week, but two days later they give it back to you.

Now in the feds, y' all do like the white guys TV, the Mexicans TV. It's like that, right? Okay. Yeah, we had the cracker. The white guys TV room was the cracker box. The top 10 country music songs That's what we used to watch on Saturday That shit was funny

I don't know if it's I think it was I want to say it was Sunday Or Sunday or Sunday Yeah Oh listen they watch horrible programs They watch cops They watch They watch um you know And

They make it and afraid Alaskin Bush family Yeah You know gold rush Gold Rush They watch gold rush so much I got into Gold Rush Right

Where I was like God you know Parker. That's funny. What's the other one they would watch? What's the guys with the ducks? Duck Dynasty. Oh, yeah, Duck Dynasty.

Yeah, they would watch. It's a white boy shit in there for sure. American Idol. Yeah. These are grown men watching American Idol, arguing about it. For real. Getting in fights. That shit's funny.

Yeah. So what are you doing? What now? So now, man, I... Wait, wait, wait. Where did you meet your wife? I met her in Denver or just south of Denver. I figured that.

Yeah. You have a little more specifics? Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's not like, you know, I met her at some event overseas. I met her on a dating app. Better on Tinder. Is it two out of three? Is it two out of three marriages or relationships are based on, or is it three out of five?

Right now? Right now, dating out. I believe that. I would say three. I mean, I would say it's the norm. It's more more than not. Yeah, I mean, we met and, you know, it's crazy. I remember sitting in the joint in my bunk, just daydreaming.

All I wanted was just a job to work, a roof to lay my head under, and a good girl and a dog, man. That's all I wanted in prison. And sure enough, yeah, I met her, and she saved my mom. my life she's a a good woman bro um you know Midwest cow from Michigan she's worked her whole life and she's tiny she is she's a tiny little thing yeah but how tall are you six six one on a good day five one five two yeah yeah um so and so well so what are you doing for for work so yeah I mean, like I said, I had wrenched on cars. I had done construction.

But when we moved to the town we live in, which I won't say, I got a job on a ranch. So I'm just working on a ranch, man, five days a week, do my thing. I still trade crypto, you know, still do my thing. But no. Like Yellowstone? What, the area? The ranch, ranch. The ranch, yellowstone.

Oh, oh. Dude, the ranch life is fucking awesome. And it's Colorado. It's fun, man. That's Yellowstone. I live in Yellowstone. I get to, you know, milk cows, feed chickens, feed horses, ride horses, get to build stuff. I mean, I'm still doing construction.

I'm still doing other stuff on the ranch, but only when those projects come along. So the rest is driving tractors, operating skid steers, mini excavators, cleaning the bay, you know. My wife would love a whole. But it's a good life, man. It's fresh air. There's no, you know, it's nice, man. It really is. For my mind.

My mind. But the pay. isn't extraordinary. You know, I'm still just a ranch hand. But I'm grateful every day. And for our future, like when we have a kiddo or whatever, the area we live in is far better than Denver. Right. I'm excited about that. But yeah, man, ultimately, I'm trying to, you know, get in a house soon. Obviously, one day maybe start a business. I'm more, I kind of like the idea. of buying a business that's already running well. Right.

Operating that. But yeah, man, that's where we're at. I stay away from hard drugs. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor if you like the video. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Please consider joining our Patreon.

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