Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside Atlanta’s Million-Dollar Bail Business: Dog, Giuliani, & 1,000 Fugitives

Episode Date: September 13, 2026

Dog the Bounty Hunter and Daniel Matalon, from A 2nd Chance Bail Bonds, share the realities of bounty hunting and the bail bond industry while reflecting on recovery, redemption, and using their experiences to give others a second chance.⁣ ⁣ Watch our last episodes with Dog - ⁣ https://youtu.be/Hn1e5ScDYYo⁣ https://youtu.be/LmT21GbikN4⁣ ⁣ Dog's links - ⁣ https://www.instagram.com/duanedogchapman/?hl=en⁣ Check out Dog's books here - https://www.amazon.com/stores/Duane-Chapman/author/B0034QAUOS?ref=ap_rdr&shoppingPortalEnabled=true ⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@officialdogthebountyhunter⁣ ⁣ Daniel's links - ⁣ https://www.a2ndchancebailbonds.com/news/⁣ https://www.instagram.com/a2ndchancebailbonds/⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@UCdRIsE8GWw4VKX9X85GUr-Q ⁣ ⁣ One thing to pack, five ways to power! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code COX at https://www.Ridge.com/COX #Ridgepod⁣ ⁣ Upgrade your wardrobe with timeless essentials that actually lasts. Shop Quince with free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/true⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://www.insidetruecrimepodcast.com/apply-to-be-a-guest⁣ ⁣ Shop my merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/MatthewCoxCollection⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ Check out my Dark Docs YouTube channel here -⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@DarkDocsMatthewCox⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69v Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm the greatest bounty henning in the world I want a bounty hat. And I did Giuliani's bond, they had drones coming down to our office outside the doors trying to find us. So after Beth passed away in 219, I got far away from bounty hunting. I mean, I would advise that to get out there physically, I didn't do it. Brancy asked me one day, what do you really want to do? And I said, well, I'm the greatest bounty hunt. in the world I want a bounty hunt. So our mutual friend, Jeff Carpatrick,

I said, do you know anybody that has a bunch of jumps that would let me film it? And he said, yeah, Daniel at second chance bail bonds. I go, how many? He goes, I don't know, like 60. I go, 60, right? So then I finally got a hold of Daniel on the phone and I talked to him and said, how many jumps you got?

And he said, over a thousand. I said, over a thousand. And I'm like, of content. Yes. Yeah. We have more content than we know what to do it. Yes. And so then Francie I and you met right for lunch or dinner somewhere, right? Yeah, for dinner. We went to Atlanta Fish Market. Right. In Atlanta.

Right. Yeah, Atlanta Fish Market. Yeah. And then we, you know, talk some more, had fun. And then so every county that he's licensed in, which is a few, you have to have the sheriff's permission, you know, I can watch and say, get the guy or don't move, buddy, shut up, whatever. Right. Because he can't carry a firearm, obviously when he's out with us in the field. And so, uh, so we don't want to break any laws. We've got permission from a couple sheriffs to that I can, as long as a license bounty hunters

holding the guy's hands, right, and cuff them. CISD. Okay. So, which is fine with me for now. Okay. Because he's got a lot of jumps. So we're going to, we're looking at it to get a. film crew, which I told you Nick May give us a good deal. And we're going to start filming.

We've got to come up. I think that Monica is our social media girl right now. And I think we're going to put up something. And my manager also said, let's get, let's make a contest. What do you want to call the next show? You know, a rainy night in Georgia. But we're going to do it all over, you know, the country. So I have been in bail since 80, 19 plus, I've gone, you know, a few times of my life. So I understand it really good. My former wife, Beth, was the president of the Bail Association two times in running, right? So going into different city, states, explaining to Democrats and Republicans what bail is, you know, what it actually means. And it's like we make a nickel out of every hundred bucks.

Or we make a nickel out of every dollar. But we put up the whole buck. Right. So explaining that and getting into it. So I started talking to Daniel and I thought, man, he's, you know, for so young, he's got so much knowledge about bail. And we all do it for the money because above all, the Bible says, above all things, I wish that you would prosper and be in good health. So of course we do it for the money, right?

But his heart is like mine, okay? Second Chance bail bonds, the name of the company. I've had 997,000 second chances. So, and how he talks to prisoners that we've been together with, you know, he makes him laugh and promises. to do stuff and his right-hand man jesse uh they do it and then he's got a wife and two children they're fantastic one of the girls is a professional writer a jumper not a professional yeah he's a dad so she i've i've seen it somewhat on television all that but she is incredible And his wife is incredible.

She's CY2, hear the story about her sticking behind him. I finally found someone that I could trust, you know, completely, that once in a while he'll go out with us. So far, so good. And so far I've been able to, you know, mostly find him because I get them on the phone and kind of threaten and promise them. If they don't come in, they're going to have a problem. And so we've got five or so in a row that's all turn-ins because they come in. But for them to throw down, you have to, you know, shoot them with my non-lethal, all this and that, right? That's okay.

But the whole idea is to, if you can, skilled enough, there's some people and not just, there's some snake handlers, sooner or later a lot get bit, but sooner or later they don't. that can handle a poisonous snake. Okay. So why you want to be there to cuff them? Like can't you just go along with them? Yeah, but I like the cuff. You know, I like to hear those cuffs go because it takes a minute to find them.

I think you like the hunt too, right? Yeah, yeah. You like you could be there the whole time without cuffing. No, that's like having a gun without shooting. Yeah. He wants to finish the job. That's like having a gun with no bullet, you know. Right.

So, yeah. He wants to be able to finish the whole process. Yes. And then we're doing a lot. I'd like to wait in the car. You guys, you guys, he's in there.

You all need to go, do that. That's it. I'm just his driver. Yeah. I don't need to be there. Oh, it's not important to me.

Your wife's here we can. No. So, but anyway, so we're a good, we're terrific. Don't tell you to get out of the car now. I know.

we're a terrific team right yeah so uh so far we're batting 100 well actually more because we're going after a couple of the one guy out of doctors permit but you found him this guy took his ankle bracelet to another state and it kept tracking him but he was in the hospital the smart guy and then uh the other guy was in prison we were going after right they put him straight in the joint or something we still got the other guy that you cluster the 600000 that's not a florida actually here in Florida. Yeah. So I'm rocking and rolling trying to impress him.

Right. And I'm impressing myself of some of the stud knowledge that I still have and growing because all those guys, well, Jesse, too, you two are a lot younger and using different techniques, right? But I am back to pass out the mugshot, interview people. What area would the guy be in? Dog wants to go hang out in the neighborhood where I'm like, let's stop by the neighborhood and then we'll go back later. You want to wait.

A dog wants to go move into the neighborhood for the week and he's like, I'm not leaving until I drag this first time. I'm like, I don't know if that's best use of time, but I guess. I mean, yeah. But regardless, it's the ultimate, right? We want the same ending. Put a blink. You can always drop one of the stick a blink camera up on a pole and have it watch the house for you. You can just, it'll blink everything.

Oh, listen. Is there all? He's home. We have that. We have the bear cameras that you put in the woods that are camouflaged. But it's better. You know, I do not stake out. A lot of bounty hunters will, those two guys, your guys.

Yeah. You know how long they stuck, they did a stakeout? How long? Oh, my God, four days or something. Yeah. But I think that would be fun. I get it. I know it's boring.

Some of it is. Some of it. Some of it, but you think it sucks. It sucks too. Oh, man. When you have to take a piss for two hours. I know, but you're like, oh my God. But see, to me, you can put up, to me, I find a telephone, two telephone poles and stick

the things up there. Or even, even get a, you know, it's funny. You know, it's funny. You know, Dan told me he walked out into his garage the other day at like 2 o'clock in the morning. He said, I'm in my garage. And I look up and, uh, drone. There's a fucking drone hovering, staring.

And he's like, and he was, he was, I'm telling him, man, he was, it was, it was who told you that? A buddy named, my buddy named Dan up in, this was up in like, shit. Was he doing cook or right? No, he's working. At 2 o'clock in the morning, he's just hanging. But he said it was silent. You know, usually it sounds like, zzz.

He was not hot. No, he said, I'm just looking up and it's staring at me. He said, I got up to walk over and it fucking hovered up and was sat there for a little bit. And then he said, he just took off. I don't know what the deal. What is the deal with the drones? When I, when I bonded out Giuliani, when I did Giuliani's bond, they had drones coming down to our office outside the doors like trying to find us. Literally.

I mean, also kind of maybe they're just filmed me. I wonder. Oh, no, they're definitely, no, they are. But it, as long as it's the law where they could do it, and even now they break the law. Yeah. But there's so many of them that the FAA, whatever, can't keep a track of them. Yeah. They just send up like 10.

They send up 10 and get caught with four. It's in someone else's name. And they're good. But when it's a cop one, it has a blue or it, I think, no, Al. Alabama, me and Francie where in, I think it has a blue or red light. Yeah, there's one that's like FD, the F, the, um, the, um, the, whatever it is for the air, for the, um, FAA. Thank you. Yeah.

Like, they have certain lights too. On July 4th, the cop shoes theirs. And it's completely silent and black. It's a good old day. And every time, you know. Oh, yeah. I mean, I used to have no regulation. Oh, dude.

Right. When I, my son, I used to get them for myself to play around and then I ended up flying them into neighbors' houses and all that. So I stopped once that happened. And then, but I mean, they were so much fun in the beginning. But now it's like a whole different. I mean, it's different game now. Right when they first came out, the cops were saying, you can't infringe on there.

Because the National Enquirer did this picture of some girl naked through her thing and lost almost a billion dollars. So the cops thought that you can't film or look inside someone's house with a drone. And so my lawyer had to say, listen, just because you guys don't do it. Yes, you can legally. or on the sidewalk. Yeah, if I can see, I can look, if you're having sex with your wife in your bedroom and you leave the blinds open and I'm standing on the sidewalk and I can see it, I can film it. Like, what are you talking? I can see it.

That's not my fault. You should close the, at least in Florida, close the windows. That's your, you're an idiot. You know, I mean, I get. I mean, your wife is yours. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

Our wives are. Dog, don't you guys. I won't tell her what you said. No. Daniel, little kids They'll kill me. Yeah, listen, I love watching these guys, these auditors. Do you ever see the auditors on where they're, they're videoing people or be like,

I don't want my picture taking. You're like, yeah, well, you're in public. You're not allowed to legally. No, I am. I'm calling the cops. Call the cops. The cops show up. Yeah, he's perfectly fine.

He may be a dick, but he's perfectly fine. So that's the way back to me. Oh, my God. Okay. So now we're working together, filming together. They're filming together. All of our families get along good. You know, we're the outsiders, but the next new person is that I work in my way up to the top.

So, but I am, you know, I'm very happy my anniversary September 2nd, five years to Francie. And since she married me, I haven't been. And I'm not kissing your ass. You know that. Oh, yeah. I know. I'll put you in head a lot quick. Oh, always.

I am happy, you know, with the life, how it's, going and all that. We still financially need, you know, blessed and God is doing it. And we've been, I have been up in the clouds and back to earth, okay? And there's an old saying, I think a basketball guy said it, the harder you throw the basketball down on the floor, the higher it bounces up. So we've had our bounces really hard. So we're ready and it's happening. We're going up and up and up right yeah so you guys are are you're shooting oh we've been yeah we've been we've been is it out like is it is it is it with a production company or are you we're gonna we're gonna you're handling yeah yeah everything's a name for it you know what i mean yeah everything's been

done in house probably over the last six months and yeah we're all working together both what's funny is dogs dog and francy and their team yeah i was going to say what's funny is that the name is probably you know like you can brand anything You know what I'm saying? Right. You throw your name in there. You know, if long as your name is in there, the rest of it's really irrelevant. Yeah.

You just, you'll brand that you just brand the shit out of it. And it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll, well, I think it's, I think it's a bigger thing too, also, right? It's like a bigger conversation in the sense of, of this chapter of kind of him coming back out into this and what dog and friends who want to set out to accomplish and with the dog foundation and all the different things, which is kind of why we've all kind of teamed up, right? A little bit.

But our wives, plus Monica, our assistant, have all been through trauma in their lives, okay? From President Vance's mom to Monica, who was like traded when she's a kid, our assistant, all of them have been through traumatic stuff. So all those women together going somewhere, can you imagine what would it do for rehabs or your women getting out of prisons and stuff like that. So I think the shift became bigger, right? So it was bigger than bail bonds and bigger than ankle monitoring and all those things, although we're doing all of those things, right? And go ahead.

Well, I was going to say, are you trying to start like a channel or are you trying to get to a network that will put it on in the show? We're going to talk. Kim and I are going to talk. Then the wives will prove it. There's always that one thing in your closet that you've, grab without even thinking about it. The same jeans or the same sweater that works no matter what. Quince has basically built their whole brand around making more of those. They're not messing around

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You need to come up with the name of the network. right? Because we're going to start our own network. Okay. So, you know, turn to this network to see this show, that show. There's a lot of reality shows that I've had good ideas to and my big mouth. A&E stole two of them that are still working because I shot my mouth off to them. But I have a lot of good ideas. So not only will he be producing or the network that carries the new show, but other shows also. And that's where you get. get into like you impress people and the price is what matters. You keep it low enough where, you know, so many times people panhandling on the street back in the day would say, oh, dog, what's up? And, you know, Beth used to scream at him and say, how come you're standing here panhandling, but you got cable?

So, and that's still how our fans are from 18, well, from like nine and ten to eighty to ninety two years old i met this lady the other day of me and everything so you know god is blessed to do that so this is another yeah it's another step that i dreamed about uh and daniel's is agreeing to as again as long as our wives give the final check so you're so you're trying to you're coming it with your own network but what's the platform well we don't i mean at this point yeah there's no yeah a lot of reality, you know, how it really is. Our show was the only real reality show there was.

Right. All every one of them was scripted. Yeah. So just how we are and just how, you know, things happen. Well, I think he wants, you know, I think it'll give him an opportunity to kind of finish his story, right? His, what he won't, you know, what he does and how he wants to do it. And I think there's just so much more left to tell and kind of kind of. The Kipling.

Is it Kipling? I don't even know. oh god is uh the the the poem or uh rage you know do not go into that good night um you know rage rage against the you you never heard are you in are you fucking kidding me are you kidding me how do you not know i mean i'm being i just don't know if it's kipling i don't know if it's kipling um it basically the poem is about do not go like don't don't fade away you know go go go out fighting you know yeah if don't you know and it's about old age and It's about like rage against it.

Like go out as hard as you fucking can. That's exactly. That's like what we're doing right now. Yeah, I was going to say it like, you don't know what platform. What do you guys? So you don't have a network. You don't have it. Well, well, there's there's attraction.

So really, really, I mean, yeah, there's been all kinds of conversations, right, from all over the place. Yeah. So there's lots of, right. There's lots of motion. And it's just a question of what, where and when. Right. Lots of production. Lots of production. Yeah, we've been filming for probably over six months. Lots of production companies coming to you saying, right, we want to do this. We want to do this. Let's have a meeting. Let's get let's get the team together. We're going to pitch it to Netflix. We've got our, my friend Jimmy works at Hulu. And if you have light slides. Right. There's a lot of that activity. Right. There's a lot of that activity. Just from chatter from social media and all the things are going on. But I mean, we there's a lot of great things. And like I said, it's bigger than that. Right. So there's there's just more to this.

conversation, which is, you know, the foundation side and really the community piece and able to really just get way more deeper into the stuff, which and work with the people, whether it's speaking in the, you know, Francie and Ray speaking in the prisons and, you know, dog and doing his thing. You know, there's just, there's a lot of components that go into this that make up really, a really cool synergy. Okay. No, no. He says no. He says no. No, no. What I'm, what I'm thinking is, I'm sorry. No, what I was thinking is that to pitch this to a production company that you would want to get on a streaming network, if that was the case, then they would want a very, very simplistic series lined up for them. What you're thinking about is you're saying, no, no, but we have this and we have this. That would be more like, you're right, you would need to come up with your own network. So your network has to be on a platform, right? It's got to be on something. You got to put it on either you. You have to say our platform is going to be predominantly YouTube. Yeah, well, I would say, I would say right now it's a straight to, I would say probably a YouTube.

Yeah. Well, if it was YouTube, we'll see where that falls. Right. So if it was YouTube, you could do like, hey, we put, put out, you know, whatever, one 45 minute episode every week or one hour long episode. And then you can also. In long form. Where you're following, you're talking about how do we track the guy down. You make a whole series out of it and you're doing that.

And it's a continuing thing. You need a full-time crew to be filming it and the whole thing and editing. That's not really, it's funny too because, you know, 20 years ago, that would be a couple hundred thousand per episode. Now it's a thousand, two thousand. You see like even even in the beginning when we were a lot of this was just us. Yeah. It was us, me, Jesse, dog, you know, just us. Oh, well, of course.

No, no, but I'm just saying like when you talk about some of the production and stuff that goes on out here and you go and I've been to some of the stuff and you're like, holy cow, dude, this must be costing a fortune. Yeah. You know, and it's like some of this you can actually get done with little to next to nothing. Right. Well, what I'm thinking is that once you, if you put that on a YouTube channel and you advertised and you went on a bunch of podcasts and talked about it, then probably very quickly you'd get, you'd be at 100,000, 200,000 subscribers and then people, it'd just blow up from there. Yeah. But at some point, you have to think about the... Yeah, what do you think?

Do you think staying away from the major, from the major, is it a better idea in your opinion? Yes, because here's, because they're not going to be, one, they're probably not going to be interested unless you can hit, they can hit the ground running. Right. And they would want a very simple, they basically would want a re, a recap of the old show. Because the old show was, hey, we've got this. You know, this is who we're looking for. Here's who he is. Right.

And then they, well, we tracked them down here and we called so and so and they get somebody on the phone. You know, it'd be you playing out the same old, the same, I don't want to say the same old thing, but the same basic series. And they would want it done very quickly because there's a shelf life. Yeah. To be honest, there's a shelf life. So how long does it take for those stories for you to get a series like that off the ground? You could do it right away. a network is it's it's probably a year worth of meetings

before they're even ready to get six months before they've finally got it greenlit another six you're two if if you were right now had the meetings right now and people were interested you're two away from shooting two years away from shoot your first episode and then it's six months before those episodes start coming out and then it's like you know we're two to three years away I mean who knows and the problem is for those types of executives they're also thinking how long does this last? Health. Just age in general.

Like how long? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So right. So things go wrong. Oh, things happen. So,

but if you started it by doing some kind of a YouTube channel that where you were put in the content of directly, it could be also based on there could be side shows where it's also interviewing people, doing interviews with other, but they never necessarily have to include dog. it could be you're interviewing a guy that came in that you gave him bond and what happened in the case and how did it resolve and that's when we came in you know oh well here's what happened I had this happen you talk about that for 20 30 minutes and then that's when we came in well what happened with the case well finally I ended up getting this this this and we ended up but I ended up getting three years probation and I was just an hour and 20 minutes hour and 30 minutes that's whole fucking episode and you'd be doing two of those well and that's what several a buddy of mine who he has he has over a million subscribers on YouTube on his channel as well right and um and so So he does a lot of filming and stuff for us. And he was saying the same thing. He's like,

you just got to, I mean, it's a lot of the stuff that. How many hours is he put, how much contents he put out a week? Oh, I mean, God,

who know? I mean, I'll, I'm gonna give you this stuff to show you. But yeah, I mean, it's a lot of stuff, man. I mean, he's pumping out.

And even we have tons. I mean, when we're filming, it's like two terabytes of storage, two terabytes of storage, two terabytes. But you have to trim it down to it's, well,

of course, right. Of course, right. But I was going to say, if your buddy is doing two one-hour episodes a week, that's more than paying for itself. You know, initially very, very quickly, probably within six months, it's probably paying for itself a year. Now you're making some money. Two years, three years. He's got a million subscribers. Or his videos, if they're getting a couple hundred thousand, they're getting a couple hundred thousand per video.

You know, have you seen him? Big Boe Brown? Big Bo Brown. Yeah. On his YouTube. He doesn't have over a million on Instagram, but on his YouTube, he's over a million. YouTube. YouTube.

Instagram didn't even, they barely even pays. There are people that make money on you on Instagram, but. Oh, that's whatever. Yeah. It's more of a funnel to your YouTube channel. So yeah. Right. Just another platform.

Just another gateway to send you. Yeah. So, I mean, that's definitely, and that happens right away. And not just that happens right away, but you can fill it with additional content. So if anything, happens. Well, we've also got this group of people that are interested in the additional content. And then you can move up, keep going on. Yeah. Because, you know, it's something Colby and I think about, I talk about all the time, like, let's face it, I don't know what's going to happen

with me. You know what I'm saying? I'm in great health. But I know lots of guys are in great health that suddenly had a stroke at 58 years old. Yeah. You know, or, oh, bro, I had a had a, yeah. My dad died at 38. Right. Yeah. So I like, you know, like, you know, how, do I have, do I have two years left or do I have seven? Yeah. I don't know. You know, so. But I almost feel like this could be housed somewhere. I feel like this could be like on one part of one big conglomerate of like, because, I mean, I just, I mean, I know a lot of different people in the space, some that play in

this space that you're in the, you know, in this and then, I mean, it's, it's, it's, listen, people love this stuff, dude. It just needs. Colby's working on it. Yeah. I thought he's getting, he's, he's renting a space downstairs. He's got a bunch of other podcasts. He's got, but let's face it, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

already thinking, who knows? And it's, and it's, and right, without you, right. Yeah, listen, every time I stand up and. Without cocks, we got a problem. Where it's Cox? We do on this, but if we're starting. That's what I'm saying. That's what I was saying.

That's what I'm saying. That's my point. And we, you can use this to help make those do well. Yes. To help get those off the ground. On track. We just started a channel called the Murder Man. Yeah. It's immediately.

We're talking about within nine days. It's monetized. Already making money immediately. So four months later, it's already got 36, 37,000 subscribers. that's already doing well. And that's great because, and it gets off the ground and it does well, right? Because then in a couple of years from now, it's going. Right.

But it's with me and someone else. And so if I step away at some point, he can go on, you know? Right. They don't need me. They don't need, right. And it's passive. It becomes passive for you. Exactly.

So then I can just walk away. Which is what you want. Really, I want to work till the day. I want him to carry him out out in a stretcher. Right. But, you know, I'm in the same boat. Right. I'm in the same boat.

Because everybody I know that really kind of retired. There's no, right. That's ridiculous. There's just, there's no retirement. Right. That doesn't exist for me. No, it's like, but I'm with you. I mean, I'd be nice to travel a little bit more, but.

And even if you got you, if, even if I had, you know, whatever, $50 million, it's like, okay. So great, I can travel for how long is that going to be okay? Six months? Can I do it for six months? Can I do it for a year? Can I, but after, it's, at some point, it's like, yeah, I'm done with this. Right. Right.

Because if you're not happy, you're, you're not going to want to keep doing it. Right. It's the problem. It's only exciting for a little bit. This is exciting every day. I mean, that's the thing. I have more fun doing the, so the foundation work that we do, like, and, like, the givebacks and, like, going and working with families and just do events and just supporting all these different things. That, to me, is way more fun than, like, going to the office and having to, like, sit in meetings all day and, like, talk about, like, real, like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I'd rather be working in the community. So that's why I do it. So that way I can have the pass. I have to deal with a bunch of guys. I can't see. But you could sit in here all day. I could do this all day. I mean, and I could too to an extent, but I do like social interactions.

Well, to me, it's, I mean, you're getting it here too. Well, it's the first time, look, it's one of the very few occasions when I genuinely take interest in someone else is when they're telling me a story. And every once in while they tell me something or somewhere in the story that you're like, who, what? And they're like, yeah, yeah, such and such. You're like, are you? What did you just do? What happened? You know, where it's like so.

left field that to me it's better than fiction because you know truth is better than fiction because things happen that you just have no clue like you're you know it reminds me of did you ever see the movie to live and die in L.A. To live and die in L.A. To live in L.A. No.

So the main character in that movie is such a prick. He's a prick secret service agent who at the very end of the movie you think he's the hero. There's a sidekick guy that's with him, right? Right. It's kind of he's not, he's probably 20

percent of the movie. The other guy's let's say 80 percent. Up until the very end and suddenly, boom, the main guy gets shot in the fucking head. He's dead. Can we talk about how annoying it is that every single device you have has a different charging cord? Your phone's one thing. Your watch is another. Your headphones need something else entirely. It's absolutely ridiculous. We've got AI running half our lives and I still travel with five tangle cords to keep my devices alive. That's over though, thanks to Ridge. The same way they reinvented the wallet, they basically done it again. with charging. Their 5-1 travel power bank has the cables built right in. No separate cords, no separate adapters. It does MagSafe wireless, Apple Watch charging, lightning, and USBC, all from

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It comes out of nowhere. And you're just like, what? Like it was so, and you realize at that point, then the secondary character continues on and you realize like, He was always the main character. He was always, yeah. So, and you realize, too, like, you've, oh, yeah, yeah. So it was such a great movie and it was so just bizarre and it was so, such a unique movie.

And that's how I feel about not all these guys' stories, but I'd say 20% of the stories. So it's worth sitting through the 80% to get to the 20% that once in a while something happens that you're just like, wow. Yeah. Just comes out of nowhere. Yeah. Those are great stories. Yeah. Because otherwise,

most of my interactions with other people are me just tolerating, listening to them. But you're set up for like amazing content. I mean, as far as just the stories. Yeah, but it's so hit or miss. Guys,

some guys will tell me a story or they'll send, they'll, until you've heard the whole story, you don't know if it is a great story. And the problem is by that point. It's too late, right? You've already,

you've already. We've spent two hours. Yeah, you're already invested. And it seems like the worst, the storyteller, it's almost like the longer the story. Right.

It's like it's four hours long and you're like, Jesus God, oh, trust me. And I'm always, I'm always fearful that I don't want to talk to long because I'm like, listen, I get it.

No one wants to listen to this. So I'm like, try to keep it is, you know, but then sometimes people will just go forever. Yeah. Well, I mean,

you know, it's funny too is the other problem is sometimes you guys have amazing stories and they'll go for three hours or three and four hours. And the problem with those is that if it's a four hour story, it gets 100,000 views, but had that guy trimmed it down to two hours or an hour and 55 minutes, it's amazing the difference between two hours and five minutes and an hour and 55 minutes, because people see the two hours they don't want to commit, but an hour and 55 they will because they're idiots. So, right, you're telling me the extra 10 minutes.

This is the easier, softer way over here. It's got a one, not a two. So the hour and 55 minute one would have gotten half a million views, but this guy talked for three and a half hours. And so it only got 100,000 views because people just didn't. want to come in. It was too long, even for guys that watch long-form content. Right. So it's such a, it's, and the packaging. You know, packaging is like the, the thumbnail, the, the, the title, was it too long? Is it five, is it a five-word title or is it three-word title? Because a five-word title doesn't get as many views as is a three or four. And people are like,

oh, it's clickbait, bro. If you had a, if you had a longer attention span, I wouldn't have to clickbait you. Right. You know what I mean? It's horrible. It's not my fault that I have to say something. I have to put a picture of a celebrity on there. To make you, to make you stay around there. And say, we're giving you some secret or secret information on the such and such case. Like, you didn't have any secret information. I know, but I couldn't get you to watch unless I lied to you.

You know, I had to lie to her. Sorry. I had to lie to her to get her on a date with me. If I knew, I'd get her on date with me. She loved me. That's right. I lied to her. Right.

You know, I lied on the app. I said it was five foot eight. I'm sorry. I was wrong. I was sorry. But I knew if you showed up and I was sitting down and I had some heels in my in my shoes and I shook your hand and sat down in the rest of the night, you fall in love with me. Right.

And now that you're in love, what does it matter now? It's really your fault. You made me lie to you. I didn't want to lie to you. I didn't want to have to talk to you, but now I am. I don't mind looking silly. I'm all right. No, dude, I think it's phenomenal.

I watched some of your style. I watched some of it last night. It's really good. I mean, it's just, it's good entertainment. I enjoy stuff. And I rarely watch anything on social media just because it's like, there's just so much shit out there. And I have my own stuff that I've got to deal with with all my people with. So I'm like, I just don't have time for it.

And literally, but it's, it's cool. I like what you're doing. I appreciate it. Yeah. The funniest thing and you'll is knowing that whatever, I guess now it's like, what, seven years is like the six months before I was getting out of prison laying in bed thinking, how am I going to make a living. How am I going to make? And I'm thinking, literally thinking to myself, you're going to start at McDonald's. You are going to be thankful and appreciative. And you're going to live in a rooming house and you're going to keep your bills low. And as far as like ever being married or having a

girlfriend, that was out. That was over. Because I'm 50. I was 50 when I got out. So that's over. That part of your life, forget about that. That's gone. And you weren't married when you went in. Well, yeah, but 13. Well, no, I wasn't married when I went in. But it wouldn't matter anyway. It wouldn't matter. The only people that keep a wife while they're in are guys that are multi-millionaires that can keep their wife taken care of. Taking care of while they're in or they're in a super short time or their wives are South American. Like American wives are not going to, and there's always one, but American wives are not going to hang out for 10 years. They're just not.

Unless your life worth $20 million and you can keep them in a knife house, but not the women aren't lovely. But that's not going to happen. It's not the American women are. Oh, no, you're smart on. No, I agree. So, no, I didn't. But I also was 50 years old, broke. Yep.

You know, I'm not six foot tall. I don't know if you caught that. I'm not, you know, I'm not, there's all the things that make a guy attractive in their 50s. Like, I don't possess. I don't have any of those things, you know. I'm not gay, but you're not bad looking. Well, I understand. But, you know what I'm saying?

I was just like, eh, you're going to, you're going to, and I'm going to be living in a rooming house. This is not going to go well. Right. So put that out of your mind. So all of those things I'm laying in bed and I'm thinking, you know what, you'll write and you'll paint and you'll be happy that you're out of prison. And that's the rest of your life. And there's nothing wrong with that. You're going to start at McDonald's. And in a few years, maybe you'll be able to sell used cars and, you know, like I had a very reasonable expectations of the rest of my life.

And so I think as a result of that, that's why I did very well. I wasn't thinking I was going to take over the world. That's not going to, that's not my, that's not your future. So it had humbled me to such a degree that that I was able to rebuild. So that's what's comical about being here when guys will walk through the door and go, bro, I love you. You're amazing. I love your stuff. You're like,

I wonder because I'm reading about it. I'm like, dude, how does this guy go from mortgages? Then it ends up in prison. Now he's like doing this thing. And I'm like, but I love it.

I'm just saying like, yeah, because you're right. And now you just told me. You're like, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. Well, here's what's funny.

You've, this of course, for you, this has been going on for 40 years. but but walking through an airport and getting stopped by somebody going oh my god you're matt cox holy shit bro and another guy going oh my god you're mac bro can i get a selfie and they're impressed and excited to be talking to me and i'm thinking to myself like like they're talking to me like i'm somebody like oh my gosh and i'm thinking like i'm just some scumbag that just got out of

federal prison i just did 13 years like i'm like and you're acting like you're meeting Brad Pitt You want a selfie. You're stopping people you don't know to take a picture of the two of us. And I'm like, I feel like it is imposter syndrome. I feel like I'm like they don't know that I'm just some douchebag. Listen, you know? Let me tell you this. It's so true.

Of course you've asked God to forgive you of your sins because you've been in the joint, right? Of course. Next to hell is prison. So the Bible says, once you mean it and ask me, I throw that sin as far. as the east is from the west. How far is that? So it means pretty far. Or he says, I throw it in the sea of forgetfulness. God forgives us. You know what I mean? So, so what? You know many people were in prison or went to prison and then got out? There's so many actors, A actors. Yeah. You know, that went to the penitentiary and especially federal. You know, you should probably

soon apply for a pardon because I'm sure he's seen your show also. Well, I've thought about it. I actually just talked to a pardon attorney. All right. So listen, how did you even get into this whole world? Honestly, it's just insane. Honestly, I mean, it really accidental? I mean, I don't know.

All right. So where were you born? I grew up in South Florida. And I guess at a young age is when my problems, I guess, kind of started. My father passed away at the age. was right before my 11th birthday. So in 93, looking back on everything,

that's kind of where, you know, that's where I started to kind of probably make bad decisions, I would say. How old were you? I was 11 years old. I just,

it was two days before my 11th birthday, yeah. Like, what kind of bad decisions? I started to get in trouble. So got suspended from school, seventh grade. There was incidents. It was, you know,

assault and battery. Well, no, no. So I was not charged with us. Well, actually, we were all, it was a group of us that were, we're at a school party. And there was a girl who screamed. And then we went to help defend her. And then it got turned into this whole other mess as many things do in life. And then we got in some pretty serious trouble, had to get lawyers and stuff for that.

I mean, there was a, okay, so far, you haven't said anything that's illegal. Right. So I'm saying, what did you do? You got to do a fist fight? There was a group of us that were, we're all in a fight. Oh, okay. at the school, which led to us getting suspended from the school. Okay.

And then following that year, there were some drug issues where I, you know, we started to, that's when I started probably the drug use was probably in the, probably the middle school. How long does this go on before you start? Well, so I got in trouble in eighth grade with when the drugs, drug situation happened, there was a party, offside party that happened. There was roof and all, you know, roofies involved. And basically a girl got ended up having to go to the hospital. Long story short, we ended up getting trouble.

They connected back to us. And so that that was kind of the straw. You guys gave her the. Well, we yeah, we had all collectively had it, right? Right. It was kind of everybody was going to a party type of deal. And, but you know, yeah. And then so then obviously they connected back to us.

Obviously, well, then now we're in trouble again. now I'm in trouble again. Right. And it's like that was kind of the straw that broke the camels back. And at the time, that's when they told me that I was going to be going to boarding school in Connecticut. Who told you that? My family did. So I...

Good news. Guess what? Yeah. We're going to train Miami for Avon, Connecticut. This is where I ended up. So that was. a very big culture shock, but yeah, so I ended up going to boarding school up. Is this like a for bad kids or something?

No, no, no, it's a all boys boarding school, preparatory school in New England, up in Avon, Connecticut, right outside of Hartford. Okay, so how long, what happens there? Are you, so I go to boarding school. I mean, I was never, oh, no, no, no, drug use elevates when I get there. you know it's you know where I thought maybe it wouldn't you know who knows but I you know I was always drawn to to that circle right of of that um you know kind of behavioral type of stuff and you know so but boarding school was great right it was one of the best things that ever happened to me and

it made me into kind of who I am today right or it had a part in it right but that none of that ever went away, right? That still always was there in the background, right? Even throughout high school, you know, and then it, and then it, that just was always a thing, you know. How long, well, how long, I mean, does it affect you in? Well, I mean, so, well, so, you know, from, then it goes from the marijuana, then it, you know, then it starts into the powder, you know, and then you start experimenting in some of the other things. And, you know, but, but everything was perfectly, kind of, I would say fine during high school. But yeah, great, you know, great experience. And went on to ended up, I ended up going to college after that, or once I started to make

my way through through that, through that. So I spent four years in the Northeast. All right. So how are you paying for this drugs? So, like, how are you, you know, right? So, I mean, obviously, basically where I could get it, right? I mean, growing up, obviously, we were not some like insanely rich we were a working class family yes came from a family that were but all working hardworking people that you know have done well but from that standpoint you know there was no i didn't have buckets of money that i could just go pile into or anything like that so um i could just get it where i could get it and at first you know as a user it's like okay it's it's not a big deal because it's you're it's just you getting high right but then when it starts to become you know a habit and then you

and then you start becoming, you know, more and more entrenched in that life, you know, then it becomes a huge expense, right? And then you start doing things and, you know, um, needing it more, right? Right. Right. So how are you getting it? If this point, if it's a drug, I'm saying, well, what do you do? Then at that point I was selling it.

So I was finding out other people that needed it, right? You know, around me. So you get enough to cover yours. To be honest with you, I ended up addicted on drugs, not even knowing what they were because somebody else wanted them. So I had never even had that experience before, but because I could get it as much as they needed, then he's like, you've never had this before? And I'm like, no. And then that's what, you know, that's what led to the first time when I get addicted to opiates. And I had never, I had never taken a pain pill, nothing. And that's when, you know, the yellow oxies, that's,

that's when that all, you know, starts all the insanity of that world. But what was a street name? for yellow what i don't even know what yellow oxy what does that mean the yellow the yellow 40s oh 40s we would just call them yellow 40s and you would take the coating off the well because i wrote a yellow coating off the top i wrote a memoir for a guy and uh when i was locked up and it was uh they'd call them like uh you know was it blueberries were like the 80s and then the 40s where they called them like a green apple or apples hey man i need four apples hey man i need four apples or I need you have any like slurfs or the yeah yeah I was going to say and they would say it on the phone like I remember one time he was talking his

buddy's like you know I need a I need you know I need 12 green apples I need I need you know 30 blueberries he's like what are you farmers he's like you're not fooling anybody like you're thinking the DEA's listing and you're fooling right exactly it's like come on yeah everybody knows what time it is yeah come on like this isn't yeah I was loved the explanation one time I saw a, I saw a document, a documentary. And they were like, well, it's not that hard to figure out. And they said, what they're talking about.

They go, let me give you an example. These guys aren't brain surgeons. They're not, they're not, you know, was it cryptologist or something? Yeah. And then he plays an example where the guys are like, you got the canolies. Now I got the canoes. You got the bullets for the canoes. You know, yeah, I got the bullets for the go.

Okay. He's like, I think they're talking about guns there. Right, right. And these are rocket size. Right. Exactly. So anyway, go ahead. Sorry. So you, four years, you go to college. Yeah. So I, so I get to the end of boarding school and I get accepted into Suffolk University in Boston. And, and then I go to Boston. But I'm going to Boston not living on campus. So I'm like, and let me also tell you, I applied to every school. This was the only school I got into. So this is where I was going. Okay. So I end up. at Suffolk University and I have an apartment in Boston

well a lot of my friends were all playing hockey football all at D1 schools all around Boston and I had the apartment so it was like almost central location right but he's playing football northeastern you know all around Boston so needless to say the Boston experience was not not a success from from the education side so I lasted that that just was I was not

able to finish at Suffolk University. So I ended up leaving Suffolk University after some time of being there. Did you last a semester too? No, it was probably about I became, I was a full time started as a full time student and then decided I didn't like that and then became my own part. I made my own decision to become a part time student, which was not a good idea. And then shortly after that, my grades were obviously not good enough to be at the school. But at that point, I didn't need to be at the school, right? I mean, I was in no place in my life where I should even be at a university at that point. You know what I'm saying at that point in my life? What are you doing for money if you have a, you have a part? So I had a job.

I had a job, you know, on Lansdown Street. On what? In Boston, on Lansdown Street in Boston. Not far. I was living down by Fenway Park in the city. You had a job on lands. No, Lansdown Street. in Boston.

Okay. What was the job? I was working at Gillians, the, you know, the pool hall. So they had like entertainment. It's down by the, by Fenway Park, by the Boston Red Sox Stadium. Okay. Okay. It's right right across from the stadium.

All right. I was thinking maybe we're a full-time drug dealer at this point. Oh, no, no. So I was continuing, I mean, I was using through this whole time. And then we connected up with, you know, the powder connection in Boston, ends up becoming these Russian guys. And then we start getting involved with all that kind of. of stuff needless to say college never gets completed right so that's kind of the studies went away to

the side and that's when i really kind of just the unraveling probably starts um when when i messed up the college deal right right you know that that was my first screw up i guess you could say so what what happens um so i kind of break it to everybody slowly so i'm able to buy my way through the end of summer in Boston so I can, you know, enjoy the rest of my time before. Now I'm moving back to Miami, right? That's obviously the only place to go. My mom's in Miami. So I go back to Miami and enroll in community college.

So I'm like, okay, I'm going to go to community college. Well, that lasted like literally maybe two days. And then that went by the wayside. And then in between then, well, so yeah, at that point, then I have no, I'm not working at all. I'm not doing anything. I'm living with my mom. And at that point, that's kind of when the drug use kind of picks up. And then I go into my first residential treatment center.

It was South Miami Hospital. How does that happen to someone? Did they come to you and somebody, do they find them? Yeah, they had found some stuff. I had fallen asleep. I think they had found some oxy cotton and some stuff, you know, some of the bigger pills and smaller pills in the blues and the yellows in the, in my bedside table, I think. And kind of, you know, it had reached a point where it was just like I was, you know, sick every day. I mean, every morning was like Groundhog Day.

You'd wake up. You're dope sick every morning. I mean, it was just like this revolving door. And I had gotten a point, but I was so young. But my first stop was Southman Hospital, but at the end of the day, I was not necessarily thinking like, oh, my God, I'm about to get sober for the rest of my life at like age 20. Like, that's just not even, I'm not even 21 yet, right? Like, I haven't even, you know, celebrated my 21st birthday. So.

Well, so your mom finds these drugs. Mm-hmm. And she comes to you and sits you down, I'm assuming. I don't, yeah, I don't remember exactly how it went down, but, I mean, it wasn't pretty. Okay. None of it was pretty. So she says your, I mean, does she give you an ultimatum? because not a lot of drug addicts go, wow, you're right.

Well, I mean, I think I kind of. That's the right thing to do. Right. No, and you know, in hindsight, looking back on it, I believe I honestly did it for her, right, at the time, right? Because it was like, hey, I can put this fire out right now. If I just go do this, right? Then this will just calm everything down, you know, which it did.

Right. How long is the program? Oh, God, I think it was like a 30-day program, but here's the problem. So I'm in this residential program. And then I get, I go to detox, get off, get off opiates. Now I'm in the residential program. So I still feel like hell. Like I'm still sweating, still pains in my bones, like all those issues that you get from the withdrawals from opiates.

And so I had snuck a cell phone in and I had hidden it in the ceiling tiles inside my residential thing. And then was talking with a few people. one day and they're like, we would love if we could get some stuff in here. And of course, I'm young at the time and I'm not taking anything serious. So, like, here's the deal. I'm in a back cabin.

And so we're at this treatment center. And I'm like, I can get someone to bring it here. And I said, look, I'll just have them loaded into tennis balls. And they'll just throw the tennis balls over the fence to the cabin. And we'll just pick up the tennis balls. And at the time, they wanted powder and oxycod. And, um, these people don't seem like they have a problem at all. Oh, right. Yeah, right. And here I am. I'm like, this is like out of a movie because I'm like, this is, so here I am in treatment. And now someone's paying for me to be here. I'm supposed to be getting my life together. Now, meanwhile, I've got a crew inside here that's ready to. I don't know why any of them are there because really all of us should just walk out the door, right? Right. Um, so anyhow, that starts happening for a little while, right? And then, and then I have to leave because then the whole cover gets blown. And I don't remember exactly who did what, but basically I volunteered, did a voluntary departure.

After how long? I think it was, I don't know, because, I mean, they used to like, I don't remember. I was there probably at least a few weeks. Okay. I would say at least a few weeks in the residential program. And then what ended up happening was, is someone got drug tested because, I mean, look, if you don't make your bed, if the corner's not right on the bed, you know, then it can flag you, right? Right.

And then that's just an automatic, just random drug test. well, all these people are now using inside the treatment center. So clearly, someone's showing up positive at some point here, you know, which is what ended up happening. And then it was like, all right, time to go. This is, you know. So that was my first attempt of getting sober. Do you go back to your parent, your mom's house?

Yeah. Okay. Yep. And she's like totally okay with this? No, I mean, nobody's okay with it. But, I mean, I was, you know, I try to block a lot of it. out honestly because it was such a just in my and this is just me myself it was just such a bad time for me you know during that time in my own head you know um which is why i was out there doing

all the crazy stuff you know but um but yeah that that first attempt did not work um and then from there there's there's just detoxes and i mean i've detoxed from opiates i don't know how many times maybe 13 times 14 times what does that mean like you're you're you're you're you're You're saying in your life. Just being physically addicted, right? Yeah. And having to completely come off. And that takes one.

You know, over my lifetime. Right. And it takes days, sometimes months. I mean, yes, the acute part in the beginning is the first 72, you know, hours afterwards or the first five days. But then, I mean, in some cases, if you've used heavy in that department, you're, this stuff like literally, it feels like it's in your bones. Literally, that's the pain that you get. And, I mean, if you know, then you know, right? Yeah.

I've written, I mean, I've written enough stories to, I wrote, yeah, I wrote, like I said, I wrote a story called Generation Oxy. It was about a bunch of wrestlers that had were, they were using in high school, but then, and they were all in like the kind of the wrestling team. And they were doctor, start kind of doctor shopping, but then a bunch of them get, get scholarships. So they end up going to other colleges. Well, the one kid stays here. And he continues. to do the doctor shopping, but he ends up getting a bunch of other people to do it. Yeah. And so he's shipping the pills all over the United States to these, you know, to these other states. And in most of the states, what you were getting them, what you could get the ox, or, or

you could get painkillers here for. Yeah. And sell for, you know, you're getting them for whatever, 80 cents a piece. And then you're selling them for 15 bucks or 20 bucks. Yeah. You know, they were going for, they're going up there. They're going for like a dollar a milligram. A dollar in a little.

That's what it was, a dollar milligram. But we were getting 40s in Miami. It was 15 bucks. Right. A pill. And so if he's mailing them up here, he's getting them for next to nothing, he's saying, okay, well, I'll charge you this much. They're almost getting double.

Oh, it was insane to markup in those. But these guys periodically, things go wrong, or especially like when they all got arrested, they're all maxed out on them. And so they're detoxing in prison on a prison, on a concrete prison floor, shaking, freezing, you know, just, just there, he's like, bro, it's the worst pain you've ever. It's 10 times worse than any flu you've ever had. He's like, and it goes on for days. Days.

And even in some cases, in my case, in the last time that I did go through this, it literally, it took months because, I mean, and I'm talking exercising, working out all the things, doing all the right things. And I mean, dude, it's just what you do to your body, you know. But I mean, and the fear of not having it, right? Yeah. I mean, I'll never forget today I was in Miami. and I'm driving to my guy's spot, right?

Which is right in Coconut Grove near off of Grand Avenue, which used to be a pretty rough area in Miami. He, I literally pull around the corner. They've got tape, yellow tape, escalate on the tow trucks, the scenes there. And obviously, he was done. I mean, that was it. That chapter was about to close.

And who was this? He was the one that was supplying all the oxygons in Miami. And so. So I'm talking about just the few. of not having it and not, you know, you go through all these things. It's just, it's sick. It's the devil. I literally tell people, I'm like, dude, all that shit, the devil.

It's like, just no. Even if I'm in pain. So at this point, you're living in your, you're living in your old bedroom at your mom's house. Yeah. Yeah. And then she's, yeah. Matt, do you want any coffee? They're about to order something.

Where are you ordering coffee? Stuff. sure of a vanilla latte I knew I was in trouble when I was being interviewed by the by the secret service and the prosecutor showed up and said this is a vinti vanilla latte with eight raw sugars she's I'm pretty sure that's your favorite drink right I thought ah fuck I'm in trouble like there's nothing they don't know already now

You know what my coffee order is? I'm going to go ahead. I need to go ahead and say, tell them everything. Like, you can't hold anything back if you know my coffee order. Yeah, right. I go to detox in North Miami. And this is another detox? Another detox.

This place called, I don't even know. So there's just called Summerhouse in North Miami. And I went there multiple times, actually. Really nice people, actually. They, um, I started there and then, then I, they sent me to Silver Hill Hospital in New Canaan, Connecticut. The problem was, is on this. Connecticut? Yeah. So from Miami, you go to Connecticut? Yeah, Silver Hill Hospital, New Canaan, Connecticut. But the problem this time was, is I had literally had a stroke while I was sleeping. When, where? I was, I was, I was in Coconut Grove. And so I would always come back to my mom,

My mom lived in a condo in Coconut Grove, Grove towers, right? Right there in the heart of Coconut Grove. And I would always come back and stay at her place. And so I go to sleep like normal, maybe three, four o'clock in the morning. I don't know, somewhere in that range. But I wake up and I can't, like, my whole left side feels like heavy. And I can't, like, and I can't, like, move my arm. And I'm like, this is weird.

But I'm so messed up at this point, right? In the disease of addiction and all the craziness going on. I don't even like think anything of it. So I do nothing. I do nothing. So I'm literally walking around with my hand, literally like tucked in my pocket because I can't even pick up a piece of paper with my fingers because I have no use of my left side. Right. And I'm like 20, I'm like early 20s.

I'm young. And you don't think this is. I'm young. And now at the time, at the time, at the time, you know, I'm using a lot of oxy cotton or a lot, yeah, a lot of, a lot of oxycontin, a lot of powder. So it's a lot of speedballing, right? That was kind of my thing. That was really, that was really what ended up really getting me in trouble.

I guess it all got me in trouble. That was where it went wrong. I mean, that's where it got scary. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I guess that that part is where it definitely got scary. But so I literally, I didn't know what had happened, right? But I knew something was wrong, right? Well, they get me up to Connecticut.

Or so they tell me that I'm my, I meet with my mom and my whole family. And at this point, I mean, everybody's heard this song and dance before, right? So like, you know. Wait a minute. Wait, wait a saying. You're walking around with your hand in your pocket. Yeah. I mean, I remember buddies of mine being like,

I remember buddies of mine walking up to me and me and being like, are you serious right now? And I'm like, what's up? Because I was so far gone. Right. Because it didn't matter. Like even my health at that point didn't matter. It was all about getting high.

It was how could I get to the dope next? That's all that matter. It didn't matter. Did someone suggest you go to the, Did you ever go to a doctor for this? For what? For what? Your hand?

You're using it now. Oh, yeah. Well, no. So, yeah. Well, thank God I'm using it now. But there was, so basically, so what happens is I, they, we come up with a plan and the new plan is. So now we've already had failed attempts. Right.

We've already been through this. And people are really sick of talking about it by now. It's like, okay, we understand you have a drug problem, bore you, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. But now it's like, okay, we're going to come up with a new plan. So we're going to go to the Silver Hill Hospital who was like expensive as hell. I mean, I think it had to be, I don't know, $1,000 a day, whatever they charge. I mean, all those places are very expensive.

But I go up there. And that's where after I meet with doctors and they do the x-rays and they figure everything out, that's when they determined and they did the scans, they recognized that I. I had had a stroke in my sleep. And the doctor's like, listen, had you had been asleep a little bit longer, you would have stopped breathing. I mean, you were that close. And so at that point, then they started treating me at Silver Hill Hospital up in New Canaan, Connecticut. I stayed up there for quite some time.

I don't remember exactly how long I was there, but it was probably about a month somewhere in that time frame. Who's paying for these? My mom at the time on this round. Okay. And what's your mom do for a living? She was a flight attendant. So, yeah, we didn't have a bunch of money. I mean, there wasn't like we were like, yeah.

Because I did. And she had had some money, you know, when my father had passed away and whatnot, but that, you know, there was nothing. We weren't, yeah. I wrote a book for a guy named Ephraim Devereoli. And I remember what he was trying to clean at one point, he went into, he went through probably three, at least three, maybe. before drug rehabs. It's funny because he started off here. Yeah. And then the next one was here. And then the next like as far as top tier, he's talking about like they're getting you, they're getting you coffee. I mean, like they're getting you, um, uh, they're making specialty

coffee for you and, you know. Oh yeah, right there. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like Betty Ford and like, when you get, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he goes in, I think one place he lasted three or four days. And then the next one he tells me about it's then like two months later, he goes to another one and lasted like a day and the next one he lasted four or five days and I went so you're in this one place a day I go but that was like the really nice one I said yeah so what did that cost he was oh it's like a thousand a day he said I had 30 days I paid him he said and they you have to pay him for the 30 days up front so I gave him like 30 grand he said a little bit more than that but yeah about 30 grand I went okay said and you were there for he was yeah two days the day I got there

the next day they kicked me out and he was there two days he was really not even 24 hours but let's say two days and I said okay I said would you get your money back he said no no no they keep the money. He said, that's gone. Oh, oh, it's gone. You walk out, you're gone. Because they keep all the money. And he's doing it over and over again. Yeah. I mean, and look, that's happening everywhere, right? I mean, that's, that's just the nature of the beast. I've been through it so many times. I lost count. And literally, at the end of the day, you want to know what it was. It's like, until you're ready to do something about it, that's what it's going to happen. Until then, you can, you can do all of the pony show you want to do, you know. And so,

but I was still on the pony show. So I'm still doing the pony show. So I'm still doing the pony show. Silver Hill Hospital, New Canaan, Connecticut. Right. But obviously I have no use of my left arm. So that's obviously a situation, right? And so, but at this point, now I'm getting atrophy in this arm, right? In the left arm. So my left arm is half the size of my right arm.

So I'm literally standing there, yeah, like a kid with my left arm half the size of my right arm. So at that point when I'm in Connecticut, I'm like, okay, this is like a little concerning because I'm like, now it's like, you can visit. visibly see it, right? So now I'm like, this is, looks a little weird. I wake up, I assure you not, I wake up one morning at Silver Hill Hospital, okay? I roll over and all of a sudden my hand, my fingers, I can like, I can do like, I can move my fingers. And I'm like, this is insane. And so I keep messing with my hand and I'm like, holy shit, like I can, I can feel my hand again. And, you know, when meeting with the doctors, they said, they said, listen, you're really young, right? So there's a good chance you may get it back much quicker than someone who's older, you know, whatever, whatever.

But you've done damage clearly. I mean, there was no doubt about it. I knew I had done damage. There was no question about it, right? But I just didn't know how bad it was. Well, slowly but surely each day, it all, it came back. Is it like physical therapy where they make you just about? Like, I mean, by the end, I was able, like, I remember playing on, they had an indoor basketball court there that I was able at the end.

And I was able to use the basketball and dribble with my left hand, you know, again, and do all those things. I remember, because I do like to play basketball. And so the basketball was, was a real big part of getting my wrist and my arm and getting the muscles kind of built back up while I was there during that period of time. But talk about scary. But you know what it was? during the disease, it didn't even matter. Like, I had the stroke, had it, didn't even care about it, kept going, still continued to get high after I had the stroke, literally.

Just pouring it down my throat, like, didn't care. So, you know, it was a, that was a pretty scary time. But it was not the end. Okay. So this is 2003. And I'm still living in Miami. And I'm like at the, I mean, I have like people, family, they've sent people to come talk to me. It's like every last ditch effort.

Like I am pretty, I mean, I'm like hanging out in like in the over town area, Miami, like, over like the pork and beans area. Like, I mean, just in places that I had zero business being, right? And I mean, life, life had become, I mean, I'm living on the street, like random places, you know, where I can get a spot. Like it just, it had become miserable. Like, literally, like, I did not want to wake up in the day. I was just like, this is because literally what, what did you have to do?

Every day when you woke up, you had to get high. I mean, it was the first order of business. Like, you didn't even get, I didn't even get out of the bed before, before getting high. Right. That was the first, you know what I'm saying? So, like, it was just, it was, it was insane. Yeah, I was thinking an upper middle class white kid in the, in the, in the, In the getter, like, what are you doing?

And honestly, the whole time I knew, I was like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what are you doing? Like, are you actually being serious right now? And like, but it just carries you, right? And then you're just like, oh, it's okay. You know, no problem. And then, you know, but I remember even one time I was with another buddy who was who was selling, you know, and it was his deal.

I just went with him and we're in Coconut Grove. Next thing I know, we got guns, guns pulled on us. And it was his deal was for a bunch of roll. They had rolls. They were getting some roller skates. some octagons or something. I don't know. They were buying, you know, a couple hundred packs of rolls or whatever it was.

Next thing you know, the guns come out. I'm fucking getting robbed. We all, we all get robbed in Coconut Grove. And meanwhile, I've got nothing. And it's just because I'm hanging out with these people. And I'm like, you know, my day just went from great to, you know, total shit in like two seconds because I was choosing to run with these people. You know, and it's just like, I'm like, why am I staring down the barrels of some guns? Real guns.

Yeah. So what happened? How do you end up in the next rehab? Or is any something else happening? You know, there was a lot of discussion, you know, with a lot of different people. There was family friends. There was just different things. And, you know, each time I got sober, you know, it does something different to you, right?

Or at least for me it did. And so every time I would go back out, it was different. The experience was different even when you, you know, the way everything moved. was different and in your mind you always knew it's like hey this ain't gonna last forever right and like each time and then something really bad happens you're like okay this is probably not going to be a good idea but you keep rationalizing it and you just keep going and going that's where i i had reached that point of just like you know what i am sick and tired of living like this and and at that point coupled with with obviously the resources and the help with the people around me i was able to get a

second chance and that's that's my second chance right i was able to go one more time but which what what so so it starts it actually starts at summer house again i believe in miami and then i the one with the tennis balls yes no no no that was south miami hospital that was a different place that was a different yeah that's another um that was down inside i'm this is in north miami okay oh yeah south miami probably wouldn't have me if i had to guess i guess once they hear this they I want. So I go to Summerhouse detox, right? And then now I'm like not driving at all. So I'm like, literally, I'm like, I will do anything you tell me to do. Like Daniel, the keys are gone. I handed them over. And at this point, I'm ready to like do it. Like at this point, now I am serious. And like,

I'm all in at this point. So they say, so I go through the detox. They say, hey, we're going to send you to holistic, which is a treatment center. I was called. holistic treatment center. It's up in North Miami. And so I go to holistic treatment center, and then we began exploring other treatments, right? So we get in touch with some people from, the doctor at the time was working with the University of Miami. It was a name, Dr. Deborah Mash was her name. And there was another Dr. Camlet was another doctor that I was working with, that we were working with. And they encouraged me to go do this treatment. in St. Kitts called Ibegain.

And I don't know if you've ever heard of it. St. Kitts? Yeah, St. Kitts in the Aves? No, Ibaing. Ibrahimine. Oh, okay. So it's an... About buying an economic passport, a citizenship there at one time. Do you know what it is now?

What? So it's an African route. It's an African root from West Africa. It's a hallucinogen. What? St. Kitts? It comes from the Iboga plant. I'm not about the nation, St. Kitts.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, that's where I flew to go do this treatment. Oh, okay. So I fly me, so I fly from Miami to St. Kitts to go and do this Ibogaine treatment. So that's how when I, this last time, that's how that happens. Is that the, that's why it's called herbal. So you're under doctor care, you're under medical care.

You have a nurse and the doctors there and everything like that. And they're monitoring you and whatnot. What is the root? What does it do? Well, basically what it does is it takes you on a journey, right? And so essentially you ingests this, in my case, it was capsules, right? It's like peyote or something? It's like a, I guess.

I mean, I've never done peyote, but I mean, let me just put it to you like this. You're like, you're gone for pretty much like a day. It's like a hallucinogenic. Yeah, but you're like, but you're like kind of lucid. You're definitely lucid through it because you get up and use the bathroom, but I could not physically use the restroom by myself. So I had like, so every time I had to get up from the bed, because I was like in like kind of like a, like a,

in a hotel resort style setting, basically in this place called Outley's Plantation, is, and they basically turn these resort rooms into medical rooms, basically. Right. And so basically you go in and you do it and then you just go on this, this journey, but you basically hang out there. So yeah, every time you had to go to the bathroom, I'd have to like, this woman would have to like literally hand, walk me to the bathroom because I couldn't even like I couldn't stand up by myself.

I mean, that's how I'm just trying to give you context on like how out of commission you were, you know. So which was probably one of the most amazing experiences of my life. I mean, it took me right back to when my dad passed away, right? And I lived through that, right? Which, you know, for so long, I was like, why am I out here doing all this crazy stuff? And I'm not, you know, look, obviously part of it's, hey, hey, maybe you just like to get high or maybe you just like to do stupid stuff, you know, who knows, right? But at the same time, we're all, you know, there's always a reason, right? There's always something that we've got or something that's driving us to do certain things or whatever the case is. And that was the case with me.

Right. It's very least there's a, it could be contributing. But, but it literally, I like, you literally, I was like back at his funeral. Like, that's how the journey starts. So you, you go out and you're like, boom, and you go into this world, and like, that's what this, this whole I've again thing was. And so you go through this whole spiritual experience, clearly. But it gave me clarity, which then I go back. So we do that treatment and say kids, and you, you do, you spend several days there, right? So you kind of go there, take it in, and then actually spend time with doing therapy afterwards, right? So discussion and writing and a lot of explaining and just doing different things post, you know, that day after, the few days after, right?

Okay. And it basically, what it does is it like resets your opiate receptors. That's really the best way I could like explain it to you. Almost, or at least that's the way it was explained to me, right? It's almost like a reset on the opiate receptors. Probably works, I would say, more. And the reason why I was doing this was because I was a chronic opiate abuser. I mean, that's what led to this, right?

And at that point, we were willing to do, you know, just about anything. So that, um, that's how we got down that path. So how long do you stay there? So I'm in St. Kitts for like, God, I think we were probably there for like, I don't know, five days, maybe a week. No, it wasn't even a full week. I don't even think it was a full week. Maybe it was like five, five, six days.

But the whole team of people, whole team of, there were other people that were obviously there as well. And, uh, but yeah, that kind of got. me focused. And then so once we complete that treatment, or once I completed the treatment, then I went back to holistic in Miami. Oh, so you're not out of a treatment center. Oh, no. I'm always in

care. I'm in care from, so I don't leave care. I don't leave care at all during the whole thing. So I get back from St. Kitts. I go back to Miami. I go up to North Miami. I go back to holistic treatment center and I

stay there until they figure out where they're going to, they're going to, um, we're just, we're talking about long term care now. So now it's like, and I knew this. I knew like there was a good chance. I was like the 90, or the, you know, people say 30 days. I knew mine was like minimum 90. Didn't know it was going to turn into like 10 months. But that's just, I just knew that I had to do whatever they told me at that point, you know. Um, so the doctors recommended I go to Talbot recovery campus. And, Atlanta, which is how I end up in Atlanta, Georgia. And what happens?

And that's in 2003. What is that? That's in the middle of 03. What is the procedure there? You're just hanging out there. You're just taking classes every day and just going to groups. Yeah. They have to keep you busy.

So like, right, right. So it starts out like, you know, your frat, you know, when you first get there, it's like you got to get acclimated, get your feet away, you know, all that stuff. So really, but it's more apartment housing or at least. least when I was there. It was, it was apartment housing, like quad housing. So we lived in these apartment, like basically it was a normal, normal people's apartment complex. But then basically they just had two buildings that were basically sectioned off for like people that were at the treatment center. So basically you had like four like roommates or two, you know, depending on how

many two bedroom apartments, two to each room. Right. And then you each share a bathroom. It's kind of what the setup was. Not ideal. But I mean, whatever. It was, I mean, it was fine. It was no different than boarding school. Well, how do you occupy your time? How do they just have like classes? Oh, you get assigned. Oh, I had more of the, I had a family therapist. I had a medical therapist. I had a this there. I mean, I had a, yeah, you have the whole gamut of all the things. And then you just, you know, pile your issues together and and start chipping away, you know. But what was cool about this was, and in all the places I've been, I've met a lot of really

interesting people. And some people I've stayed in touch with some people I haven't. But it's, it's been interesting to learn just the people's journeys and kind of how they've evolved through this whole thing because it's, it's just a, you know, but so that going there, honestly, was, was what helped probably save my life, you know, at that at that point in time. Because I was, I mean, I was, I was at the, I mean, I was just like so spent at that point that, that like I had nothing left in the tank. I mean, I was sick of getting high. I was sick of, I was just sick of being sick and tired.

I was just sick of all of it, you know? Right. And, but I wanted to get better because I did, I mean, I had ambition and drive to one day turn that around, right? But I knew like, hey, I got to get through this. And I knew what that was because I've done it so many times. You know, it's like I've crawled through this, I've crawled through this door so many times. It's like, you know.

So how? You spend 10 months total in this program. I think it was right around probably right at 10, if you combined it all, I think it was right around 10 months. But I think I got to Atlanta in 2000. It was like September of 03 or October of 2003, I think. And yeah.

And that's when I stay in treatment there. And then I move out. So how they move you. So basically they have like a program that's like, you know, they call, I think they called it like extended mirror image at the time. So basically it's like you, you basically transitioning into society, you know, what's normal life like when you go to the, you know, when you walk into a store, you know, all the stuff. Yeah. That they want to, you know, make you learn again. Right.

Type stuff. So while I'm, while I'm at Talbot, I'm. I become good friends with a good with a buddy of mine. And he, he was younger than I was. But so him and I were talking about maybe getting an apartment together and living together in Atlanta. After, after we get out, we were kind of somewhat on the same schedule. He was from Texas. I was from Miami.

And so he, we got along pretty well. So we ended up, we ended up as we started to kind of get through the program at Talbot, I was like, well, dude, I'm like, I got to go out and like live now, which honestly, to be honest with you, was probably the scariest part for me. That, that I would say was probably being away, and I couldn't even imagine being away for years or that long, you know, because this was only 10 months. And really, I wasn't completely secluded from the world, right? Right. But in most cases, you weren't. living like a normal person, right? You had all these boundaries and, you know, borders and around you. So like, it wasn't real life. And I had a hard time. It took me probably a year to really

get adjusted to where I was actually even comfortable being around people, honestly. During that time, jobs you get. Oh my God, the worst jobs ever. I mean, okay, so let's see. The first job. So I had, so I had a sponsor in the AA room. I had to do that whole ordeal. And so I had no work and no money. My family did help me in the very beginning, for sure, absolutely, with some of the expenses and whatnot, but very little. We're talking very, very little.

And basically, I get a job working. So the guy in the sponsor in the A room turns me on to this landscaping guy. and he's like, go call so-and-so. He'll get, he's got you. So I'm now living over by the Limburg, like, Mardi Station. Um, and I'm like, okay, so I called a guy. He's like, meet at the Home Depot over off of like Sydney Marcus, right? Which is like right in the heart of it.

And I'm like, cool. A truck will pull up. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you're going to want you're going to get in. And they'll drop you off later later that night. And I'm like,

holy shit. I'm like, this is, but I mean, dude, I got to do what I got to do at this point. I mean, I'm like, I don't even care. I'm like, because you know what? Like honestly, I really don't care. I'm like, I'll go dig holes. Cool. Sounds good. Well, let me tell you something. I mean, the amp bites like in my feet

and I mean, just were I was like, you know, I was like, it got to a point where I was like, listen, I love landscaping, love the people, respect people that do it, but it's just not my thing. But I mean, it was it was tough going for me in the beginning. So that landscaping was how I got by in the beginning.

And then I go back to my hotel, my short hotel stand. I get another job at the hotel, which is like at this like the, like this, it's called the Hawthorne Suites. And it's like right, it's on Peach Street Street in Atlanta. And I know there's a million Peach Street streets, but it is on Peach Street or it was on Peach Street in Atlanta right next to the Shepherd Center, which is the spine center in Atlanta, right in the heart of pretty much Buckhead in Atlanta. So, but I, the problem was I had no car. I mean, I didn't have anything. When I came to, when I got to Atlanta, I came with a duffel bag

with some clothes, and that's it. I had a watch that didn't have any batteries. I didn't have a cell phone. I didn't have any of that stuff. Right. So the first, I mean, the first stop on the deal was a phone, which was the, those AT&T, do you remember those AT&T go phones where you had to like the flip Motorola go phone or where you had to prepay it? Yeah. AT&T used to sell them. So that was like my first cell phone when I got to Atlanta. So I start, I work in the hotel business, get out of that. Then I hop in as a bondsman, right?

So I meet, I meet this guy. How do you hop in from the bondsman? How did you become, how did you get there? So, so I meet this guy who ends up becoming a business colleague, a good friend of mine now, even to this day. But him and I meet each other and we actually used to date the same girl or something or at some point. Him and I become friends through somebody else, right?

And he's like, hey, do you have any interest in, do you want to come work in my bonding company? And I'm like, hmm, I'm like, I'm up here from Miami starting over. I'm like really trying to do the right thing, honestly. Like my head's totally screwed on now. So now I'm like trying to crawl out. But I mean, I was like way, way under the ground, you know, when I came into this. So like it's the confidence.

I mean, everything's gone, right? everything that you had built up is just gone. So he's like, do you want to come work with this bonding company? I'm like, sure. And I had known another bail bondsman who was a family friend in Miami in South Florida, who literally used to follow me home from like, you know, we'd be out at the strip club and he'd make sure I got home from, you know, when, you know, we would be down at the club and he would make sure I got home because he was

the bondsman. So it was like I wouldn't get in trouble, you know, stuff. Stupid stuff like that. But that was the only thing I knew about like, you know, and I knew that obviously he got people out of jail. But I go to work for Charles. Charles Shaw is his name, my buddy in Atlanta. And so him and I, so he's like, do you want to come work?

I'm like, sure. So I go to work for him. This is like right in 2003-04. No, this is in 2004. And I'm working for him. And I'm like, I like start to pick up on this stuff like very quickly. And I'm like, you know, training in his office. And I'm like, wait a second.

I'm like, I can do this. You know, I'm like, but I still continue to learn. So I'm working like the day shifts to popular, you know, the hotter shifts, but all the shifts. Nighttime. I mean, he had me work in every shift there was. Right. It didn't matter. And I always loved to work.

So it didn't matter. You know, you could send me to work whenever you wanted. But knowing that what I knew and it was like, you know, it was one of those things growing up in a family of entrepreneurs and we have, we have such. a huge family and there's people into all different types of stuff. But I always knew that I was going to get into something. Right. I never knew what it was. And that was fine. I just knew it was going to be something. But that's, that's kind of what sparked my interest. And I'm like, wait a second, I could do this. And then I started to kind of see the vision behind it. Right. And I'm like, wow, I could do this and build it and really do this different than anybody's

ever done it before. And it's even in some of the same first business plans that I wrote back in 2006 when I first started writing the business plans for a second chance. And so naturally working for him was obviously what kind of what gave me the foundation. You know, that was kind of the base of kind of my entry into into the bail world, I guess you could say, was started in 2004. And that's, okay. So when did you open your own place? So March of 2007. So a second chance is born in March of 2007. So I'm working for this bondsman for probably a couple years, obviously, and then realize that I want to obviously go out of my own and do this thing.

So I put the business plan together, but the problem is I have no money, right? So you need in Georgia, which is different than other states, Georgia, Georgia are what's called professional bondsman. So a professional bondsman is someone who's rights on actual cash. A surety bondsman, which is corporate surety, which is through an insurance company, right? So that's completely something different. Then the bondsman's kind of like the middleman, right? Where I'm writing on my own cash.

Right. So that's how it is in Florida. Right. Well, Florida has both. I think you can use both. I think you can use cash and you can use insurance in Florida. It depends on what you do. But I write on cash in Georgia.

We mean you write on cash. Do you mean you have to put up all the cash yourself? Yeah. So I have escrow accounts with each jurisdiction. So Fulton County, I mean, the whole metro, all these. You get somebody out on 200,000. You've got to give them 200,000. Right, but it's a certain percentage.

So I have, there's a ratio between us and the sheriff's department. So there's an actual cash escrow account. And then they hold that cash so that, yeah, that they have that money. So I have up millions in cash pledged for bail across the country right now. That's what we do. Yeah. So where's that? So you have no money when you start.

Where does that come from? So I'm like, where the hell am I going to get? Where the hell am I going to get money? Who's going to give this? kid from Miami who has just completely just been a complete idiot for how many years just knucklehead okay who's going to give him a quarter of million bucks would you give would you give someone a quarter million bucks that was coming out of rehab looking crazy as hell skinny you know looking like a so you find a fat chick with a good credit that that's what all the black guys in prison

that's that their business plan is always like I'm going to find a fat chick with good credit is that And that's going to, she's going to finance my business. I'm serious. That's hard like 10 of them. They were all the same thing. Oh my God. I got this girl. She got good credit.

What she looked like? She's a big and Cox. She's a big and cox. She's a big and she got good credit. Okay. Okay. So is that what you did? So I'm thankful that I did not have to go that route.

So what I did was is I reached out to my best friend. Start swiping right on everything. Yeah. Thankfully there was no swiping at that time. But yeah, no. I literally, I was like. like, okay, so I got to find this money. So I talk to my family a little bit and I pitch it, you know, soft pitch a little bit, but like there's no takers and I'm kind of like, I'm a little nervous.

You owe us 150,000 rehabs. Yeah, it's like, yeah, your rehab bill's kind of high and you haven't paid that down yet. Yeah. And all the damage that you've done. So I'm like, okay. So I'm like, we can't find the Pontiac. No. Right. Yeah. Yeah, all the criminal damage to property. But yeah, no. So I'm like, who am I going to call? So I reach out to my best friend, Chris, Chris Rudder, who we call Squeaky. He's still my best friend today. I feel like a guy named Squeaky doesn't have millions, but I can be wrong.

Hopefully I'm wrong. Well, I'm not going to speak on what he has or what he doesn't have. Maybe Squeaky's done very well. I don't know. Squeaky's a smart man. But anyhow, long story short, I'm like, listen, bro, I got this deal. I'm like, do you think your dad would be in on it? Okay.

And he's like, I don't know. He's like, you know, here's dead. Now, meanwhile, Chris has been through every detox, every treatment. Not himself with me, but he has lived through all. I mean, he has lived my life with me. Yeah. So he knows all the insanity and all the craziness. So here I am now like, bro, we got to go get a $250,000 bag of money.

Like, oh, and I need some operating capital too. So if you could throw another $50,000 on top, that'd be great. Right. Right. So basically we're worth $300K. Well, I call his dad. I call Josh. Josh is like, okay, you know, and he's already like, this dude's insane.

Like what? I'm not giving him $300,000. Like, and this is 2004. Right. So he's like, he's like, I want you to call this guy. And I'm like, call who? He's like, this guy named Tim. And I'm like, okay.

He said, his name's Tim Fulton. And he said, you're going to call him and you're going to go sit and you're going to meet with him. Right. I'm like, great. I'm like one more like task here. And meanwhile, all I want to do is just get the damn business open. So I don't have to go to work from like, you know, nine to five or, you know, whatever shift. You know, I'm literally just wanting to like just get my own thing going.

Right. Because if you open your own business, you get to work. You got to put business plans. You get to work a lot less if you open your own business. You can basically run your own business part time. Oh, right. You're out of your mind. Right.

Right. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, 80 hours a week. Right. But here I am. am so young and I'm just like, dude, I just want my own business, blah, well, anyhow, so I get the

250. So I convince, well, I guess I did convince because they did give me the money, but they loaned me the money, I should say. And the money has, right, they're not giving me to me. They loan me the money. So you sit down with these guys. I sit down with them and we lay out the business plan and I spend all these days. I mean, like, I'd be at the house working and my wife's like, and I'm up late on the computer trying to put together this business plan, which meanwhile, I have no idea. deal what the hell I'm doing. I mean, zero freaking clue. I mean, none. I'm like fake it until you make it, crawl through it, figure it out. But at the end of the day, I knew, though, the vision side of it because, like, I knew where I wanted to go. I just didn't know how to get there, you know, because I

just didn't have the experience. So anyhow, we get the money, and we launch in March of 2007. And that's that's kind of, you know, that's almost now 20 years ago. So, and then it just, you know, it's crazy because I had other businesses prior to the bail business. All very successful? No, absolutely not. Like failure, like the biggest shit sandwich you've ever seen. And so I've had, you know, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I had a great track.

I was in the pawn shop business. Do not do that. That was that did not go well for me. There was, uh, check cash. Yeah, the title pawns. Those are just title pawns. I did that for a, yeah, no, that's, but, but this, this, this was, this was looking good, you know. Right.

So, I mean, do you get a storefront or you do it on online? What as far as for what? For what? What year is it? The bonding. So the bonding, yes. The bonding in March of 2007. So I, so, okay, so we get the license.

So it's a, it's a process, right? So you have to submit like, I mean, literally your blood type. I mean, it felt like your blood type. I mean, they literally turn you upside down. But I guess for the right reasons, right? It's financial. I mean, we're dealing with people's freedom. I mean, there's obviously some big, big boxes that you're checking here, right, along the way. So it would make sense that they want to, you know, vet you and make sure. So I go through, I get approved. I'm like, oh, wow. Well, actually, City of Marietta approves me first. Actually, City of Marietta is the first bond that I ever wrote was through City of Marietta Police Department. And then secondary Cobb County approved me after that. And that's in Marietta and Cobb County.

That's the first bond that we rode at Cobb County Jail. And we stayed in business there just servicing those jails and the city jails around Cobb County just in the beginning. You know, obviously very small in the beginning. But that's really where it's just, but this is all starting off the two. But at first, but in the beginning, I have no office, right? So in the beginning, I'm like, I don't even have an office. So I have Comcast come out to my house, install a business line in my soon-to-be daughter's guest bedroom. This is after we buy this house, right?

I plug a phone up to it that day, the day they turned it on, forwarded it to my cell phone. And that was the business. That was it. It was me and the cell phone. And a little shitty money bag from, you know, the ones you get from like Walgreens or CVS, you know, the little zipper, a little cheat back. Yeah, one of those. It took me forever to fill it up in the beginning. So how does, how do you get clients?

So, yeah, I mean, you go to the prison and you go to the phone. Yeah, you get, yeah, your name's up on, your name's up on inside the jail. And then you have, you know, whatever marketing that you're doing. And then it's a lot of word of mouth or relationships. And then you, um, you know, you go from there. And that's, that's pretty much, you know, how, how that all went. So all these guys are, you know, they're all good guys. So you put up their bond. They get out. They all do the right thing. And you've never lost any money. What happens when they take off? Oh, God. I mean, nobody takes off, right? Oh, God, all the time. I mean, right. I mean, I probably have over a thousand fugitives right now that I'm looking for today. At least, at least a thousand, I would say.

we could we could spend the next we could spend the rest of this year finding people that's how many i have you're in a lot but and i say that only because it's the volume that we do right so i don't want you to get to get this mistake in here that oh my god this guy's writing terrible bail no it's because the volume that we do and listen when you write that kind of volume you're going to have things are going to go wrong even if people are doing the right even when you do the right thing bad things happen yeah you know so so so that so i so i'm Who's, do you have a full, do you use private, are there like private bounty hunters that go after them? Yeah.

So we have, I'm all in-house. So everything, everything that we do at a second chance. So my model is definitely a little bit different than most, but we have our own way of doing it, right? But we have subscribed mostly to the independent in-house people with us directly. So that way I'm not getting caught in the fray of any, you know, anything else that may, may or may not happen, you know, with other cases or stuff like that. So they're in-house solely with us. Okay. And then we also work cases for other companies all over the country.

So, I mean, it just depends on if there's a need or if they have, you know, someone somewhere where we might be able to help them or vice versa. We get help from other people all the time. So, I mean, all this started from the 250. Does the 250 grow? Do you get additional money? Yeah, so basically, so basically how it works is it's like a live checking account, right? So basically for every, so let's just.

For conversation purposes, for every 10, so if you put up 100,000, you're getting a million on the street. Right. Right. So if you put up 100,000 cash, so it was at a times 10 ratio, let's say, right? Is traditionally what it's been in Georgia. I think like Florida, if you write on cash, that's how it would be. If it's insurance, you wouldn't do it that way. Right.

But essentially, it's like a live checking account. So we write bail for the month. So let's say you write a million dollars. in bail that month. Okay. Well, how many of your cases closed? So let's say one of your big case is closed, but you just closed $2 million worth of cases this month because you had a ton of people go to court. So you get back your $2 million that month. And then the $1 million goes on to your your debits because now you've spent another million on the new bail. Okay. You know, so it's essentially like a bank, man. I mean, that's essentially what it is,

but we're guarantee all we're doing is guaranteeing someone's appearance and court. That's that's that is the that is the main reason that is the main purpose I should say. Right. What if they right at no cost to anybody else at no cost to the taxpayer or anything like that. Right. But if they take off and you can't you can't well then I'm financially responsible or the person who's co-signing right which is why we want good co-signers things like that. But at what point does how long does the jail or the whatever how long does a court system give you to find these people before they say okay you owe us the whole bond. So in Georgia, in Georgia, you have within the first 90 days, then you can get up to 95% back.

And then you can get up to 50% back within the first two years. But once you get out past two years, you're out of gas, bro. So if you stroke a check for 200, 300,000, you ain't getting back. And so that's real. I mean, and that money is going back into the courts. It's going into whatever. I don't know how exactly they distribute, you know. I'm sure they do the right thing.

I'm sure they do the right thing. Yeah. They do, I think. Right. Would you think they do? No. No. Yeah.

How does Dog the bounty hunter enter into the equation? So I met Dog back, I guess, when Beth, when Beth was the president of PBS, which was a national bail association, the professional bail agents, United States, that's about the time when Dogg and I met for the first time at a conference, which nothing ever happened after that. That is the first time that we actually met. And then several years ago, we also did a project on another podcast that I had, which was Back Your Blue podcast that we did in Atlanta as well. And then kind of have been talking kind of on and off ever since. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching.

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