Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside El Chapo’s Cartel: Secrets, Betrayal & Cooperation

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

Chi breaks down the untold story of Chicago’s infamous Flores Twins — from Little Village kids to top cartel players who helped bring down El Chapo. Matt and Chi talk snitch culture, betrayals, kidnappings, and why their story is bigger than street legends know.⁣ ⁣ Chi's links⁣ https://www.instagram.com/chi_ill/⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@ILLCHI⁣ ⁣ Get 10% sitewide for a limited time. Just visit https://GhostBed.com/cox and use code COX at checkout.⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGEMGEMP operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Snitching is in the two-box. of the cartel. They look down upon it when you do it, but it's not a thing that they look down upon when they tell their sons that they're allowed to do it. People would come to my channel. Oh, the Flores twins are snitches and rats. I'm the only person on the internet that's had the twins together on my show. Can you give some background onto kind of like the Flores twins like story, like the basic? Absolutely. So again, me growing up in the 90s and the 2000s making music in Chicago, you know a little bit of everybody. Again, there was the late great Cato Rangel. Cato Rangel was Valerie's husband, Valerie, who is Jay Floyd's wife now. He was getting into the music. He's a well-respected Latin king in the city of Chicago, you know, a big timer, basically.

And he was spending money in the music business. So we were trying to, we were the Latino emcees in Chicago. And we were like, yo, this guy's putting money into Latino MCs. We need to go out of Cato. But then Cato was gone. He was murdered. And after he was murdered, you know, down the line, Val was, Valerie was still doing the music stuff. They had plugged entertainment, which is Jay's wife.

And Jay was in on that. So we were kind of a degree of separation away at that point, you know, in the early 2000, 2005 through like eight, you know, when everything went down for them. But as far as them, and, you know, they were known you'd hear about them. You'd hear about them through the circles or whatever. And then when it all went down, the disappointment came like, yo. The guys that brought down El Chapo are... But that's what I'm talking about. I'm saying, like, these are two twins.

I'm talking about... The history of them? Yes. Okay. So they're... To what we're talking about, Jay has gotten on my channel. And while I'm having this conversation about these cartel leaders, he said, man, my father got with my mother when she was 12.

You know, and he was a car. Their father was a cartel guy. So the Flores twins, two guys from Little Village. Little Village is a section on the South Side. side of Chicago, predominantly Mexican section of the south side of Chicago, its own community amongst itself, a lot of gang movement and stuff in there. And they were basically bred into the business. You know, their father got them, he got out of prison when they were seven years old and got them into the game. I think now some people would scream that's a form of child abuse

in itself. They were in the car with him running a bud across the border. And, you know, they were twins. Twins were a fairly, you know, a fairly novelty thing back then. And they were able to, you know, smooth the guards. And, oh, we're just a couple of kids taking a ride with our dad type shit. And they were in the business. And, you know, small guys in stature, very smart guys. In a family of hustlers, everybody in the community knew who they were, knew who that family was, knew where they were getting their work from. Their older brother was a Latin king, a predominant Latin King in the community. So he was known as well.

So it was kind of an easy, it was a recipe for them to be who they became, you know. And as time went on, their father came out of prison, got them in the game. They went to Mexico to stay with their father. And at some point, their older brother got arrested and locked up. They moved back with him and he got arrested and locked up. They're 18, 19 years old. Their brothers connect comes along and says, you know, so I got some work. you guys know the business can I get this work off and they flipped 30 kilos in a night 30 kilos

in a night that's their first their first deal in a day and called them back and run another 30 that's a good lick that's a hell of a lick but they were on they were often running you know um they were often that's not an entry level new situation and here's that's starting here and anybody could have fucked that up right if you gave that to the wrong guys we would have never heard of their story they'd have been skin somewhere and it would have been a rap, you know, but these guys pulled it off and they pulled it off quickly and they started flipping again and it was never, it was no looking back from there. From there it was, they ended up sitting at the table with my own chapel and the Belchian lavas at that time,

it was a beautiful happy family in the Sinaloa cartel. It was. Yeah, with the, the Federation. What do they kind of have another name for it? Something like that. Federation, it's changed names over time, multiple times. I've, um, I wrote a, I wrote a story, an article about it, called, God, it was called American Narco, where these two guys were actually working, you know, selling Pete and I do a whole background of the formation of the Federation. And how, yeah, it was like the height of where they were all working together

and then, and it's the same thing, too. It starts to fall apart when Chapo, Mayo and Choppos start targeting their rivals, using the DEA, the American DEA to chop off the heads of their rivals to try and take their territory. And they're using, they're going through

Mayo and Chopo's lawyer, I forget his name. And then they're trying to kind of swap it over where that guy is, he works his way off. He gives them enough information that he gets himself unindicted through multiple jurisdictions by giving the DEA information

on all. these rivals and then they start knocking all these guys off, these cartel leaders off, and then he gets himself removed from several indictments, and then he goes to have Mayo's son was going to kind of take his place, right? And then he ends up getting grabbed accidentally. That's my understanding of that's my remembering the story. Here's the thing, keeping it, keeping the betrayal together, it takes a lot of paper and a lot of listing and a lot of lifetime to figure it all out because there's so much betrayal involved. And like you said, it was a beautiful, happy family. at first.

This is the height of their power, you know? And that was one thing when I started covering this that, you know, people would come to my channel, oh, the Flores Twins are snitches and rats. And then I come to find out, wait a minute, snitching is in the toolbox of the cartel. This is not a thing that they look down upon it when you do it, but it's not a thing that they look down upon when they tell their sons that they're allowed to do it. Right. You know, and, you know, that whole thing started fracturing with, I believe it was

muchomo, was it a machoomo? One of the brothers of the Belchon Levas, like you said, that Chapo put in prison and that created the betrayal and they started separating and things started falling apart. But it was a beautiful thing then, but I think the twins were ahead of their time in the sense that they

saw that this was just nothing but betrayal all. He tells a story of one guy didn't shake Chapo's hand and thousands of people died over this, you know? And it's like, once you've reached that point, you're no longer selling drugs. You're just a crazy man with a lot of money and you're smoking a lot of people. That's all you are. You know what I'm saying? You're the police when you want to be the

police and you're the cartel boss when you want to be the cartel boss, you know, you're sending people to jail, you're doing all of these things. It's like, wait, you guys use snitching as a tactic. So that's very different from the street culture. What me growing up was me and you rob a liquor store, you know, I don't want, if I rat on you for less time, then I snitched on you. You know what I'm saying? But if there's a show, I live in next door, you remember when Cameron was on, I believe it was O'Reilly. factor and O'Reilly told him, well, if he, Cameron's like, I don't deal with the police. I don't talk to the police. And he's like, well, if there's a show out next door, and he's like,

I'll move. No. Wow. Yeah, that's, come on. No. It's two things. You split them. Right. You do what you got to do and you split them or you call the cops to get rid of them because karma's going to take too long. You can't snitch on a show. There's no such thing. You're not in business with this dude. You had nothing to do with this. I think the snitch, the no snitching culture is being lied to for these kids. could you be no snitching but you're wearing a Chapo shirt and this guy is notorious for this shit, you know, and you're sitting, feeling around judged by a bunch of people that don't know the story? What's funny is everybody says, oh, well, they always say like the, um, snitching on a show,

well, snitching on a show like, oh, that's different. Wait a minute. Your mother loses her inheritance to a guy who's running a Ponzi scheme. She invests in her in her, or she invests her retirement fund into a Ponzi scheme, the guy spends all the money, loses it, he could, he, the Ponzi scheme starts to collapse. Do you want the other people in the Ponzi scheme to cooperate with the authorities to try and get that money back? Right. Oh, well, that's different.

No. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's always these other levels. And then guys that I've known in prison who they would find out that their paperwork was no good, right? Like, they cooperated. It was not one time Did I ever see one of those guys go Yeah, fuck it, bro

I was gonna get 10 years off my time and fuck him Right He would have done it to me I don't give a fuck Even if he wouldn't have done it to me What did he deny denied deny? No, it was always No, you don't understand

My cousin was he was always You don't understand that guy He's a fucking piece of shit bro He's like You can always justify it to yourself That it's acceptable until it's done to you. And then then they're snitches.

The truth of you ask that guy, he'll be like, no, don't you understand, man? Fucking Jimmy was, Jimmy fucked, uh, fucked me over for $50,000, or six months earlier. He's a piece of shit. And then Jimmy's like, oh, well, that's not a reason to snitch on me.

Stop it. Yeah, yeah, enough. They can justify it, bro. Enough. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's why when, you know, when I was doing the channel,

I got tired of the picking and choosing. People coming on there since the twins were predominantly on my channel more than any other. I mean, if I can get the combined experience and perspective of the Flores twins, you know, a couple of guys that lived through a lot in a very small amount of time, it's my place to take that. When people start getting in the comments and bitching about snitching and it's like, Papa, you're picking and choosing. It's okay for your cousin. It's okay for Mario's son Vicentillo.

You know, you guys come in here rat, rat, rat, rat, rat, rat, but then you put your little cowboy hat emoji. And it's like, wait, you got your little cowboy hat emoji. What about him? He snitched too. What about Maya and Chapo having meetings with their sons and saying, hey, man, it's okay as long as you do this. It was bad because the twins did it? No.

Why are we even having the snitch argument when they're all snitches? What are we talking about here? People didn't want me to get to the rest of the story because they just wanted to concentrate on. They're snitches, their snitches. And I told them, you know, if the twins are on the show, they know that I know what they did. They call themselves snitches. What can I tell them that they don't know? This is Eminem and 8 Mile.

You know what I'm saying? What more information can they give you? They told you everything. So can we hear the rest of the story now? You just want me to scream snitch in their face every time they get on the show. Right. You know?

So I felt like that was disingenuous and it just made me dig deeper into, you know, when you come from the hood, you look at the guy with money and you say, it's glorified in movies, it's glorified in TVs, it's part of the culture, you know what I'm saying? I'm sure cooperating is different

when you don't have to go back to a community that holds that shit over your head and you've got to live next door to a dude that got snitched on by somebody else. I was going to say, you know what's funny? If you asked most of these guys what some of their favorite movies are, American Gangster, Snitch, George Young, Blow. This is part of the story.

Right. I was going to say, George Young, if you read the book, he's a snitch. They don't even talk about that movie. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're all your favorite fucking big-time guys. Well, this is how I ended up covering the twins specifically. 50 Cent made an announcement on Instagram that he was doing a podcast with them and that he was going to do the TV show. As a joke, and I'm not one to tag celebrities.

It's just not my thing. Yeah. As a joke, I said, Fifth, I want to be on this show, but I don't want to play none of these rats. Not 10 minutes later, 50 Cent put up images of every Oscar award-winning actor that ever played a rat in any movie on a big screen on TV. And he placed it right there. And he said, these are all the Oscar award, y'all love this shit. Y'all watch this shit. Y'all love, I'm fair.

I was just kidding, man. You know? Right. You know, so, so, and that's how I got into it. I got into, um, I said to myself, these single videos are not working. I need something that's going to hook them and keep them coming for episode two, three, four, or five. I was going to listen to the Surviving El Chapo podcast anyway.

I said, let me just do it on my live stream. I, or on my channel. I was new to this YouTube situation. And, uh, and I started doing it. and it instantly caught on with the people. And then little did I know, I had the twins in the comments in the background, and I didn't know who they were. And I'm shitting on them, Matt.

Shitting on. Oh, they were showing everybody their money. They just opened their safe to the whole neighborhood. They want everybody to know what they got. They want everybody to know where they're at. Oh, they fucked up here. They fucked up there. And I was just being me with my experience, what I know.

They were digging that. I don't know where I get a call at. Valerie wants to talk. I'm like, oh, shit. They sent the pit bull after me. You know what I'm saying? She's the pit bull. She got on my show and she was like,

shy, man, you're killing it. We love that you're giving your honest opinion and you're from the city and you know what the hell we're talking about. And that's how this all happened from me having that conversation on Instagram with FIF about all these snitches. And because, you know, I'm not going to lie. I didn't like that it was a couple of guys from Chicago that knocked down this big drug dealer. I felt like that was putting smut on our name, you know. And Chicago's quick to say, New York, y'all got a rap problem, you know, but everybody got a rap problem. Right.

You know, since, we were having this conversation recently since, on my channel, since the, the penalties for drug dealing have gotten so much worse, the infrastructure for cooperation has got, it's turned into big business. You know, DEA spending hundreds of millions of dollars on cooperation. FBI spending hundreds of million dollars on the cooperation. ATS, spending hundreds of me. So the game is dead, y'all. Between cameras, cooperation, and all of that, it's a wrap. What else do you got? If I go outside right now and I go to commit a crown down the block,

it's 30 cameras that caught every step that I took on my way there. Every ring camera in this whole, every single house in this whole neighborhood has a ring camera. Yeah. So why are we lying to these kids telling these kids that there's a future that they could be chopped or put them on a shirt? Let's put them on a shirt and you don't really know what's going on. You can be choppo. You're going to be locked up in the ADX for the rest of your fucking life. Because he was only chopper for a certain amount of time.

The twins were only a twins for a certain amount of time. So what happens? So with them, let's go back to them. So they're dealing big time in Chicago, right? And how do they end up getting next to the cartel? Like, how does that happen? So what happens is the twins are in Chicago. They're doing their thing.

I believe it was Jay goes off to get married. and he goes to Mexico with Val. During that time, some kind of indictment came down in Wisconsin and P was a fugitive. Peter was a fugitive. So Peter went and met them in Mexico. Who's Peter?

Peter Flores. Oh, okay. Pedro Flores. So Pedro Flores goes and meets up with Jay in Mexico. He's on the run. He got to get out the U.S. You know, he gets out. At some point, they have an uncle,

quote-unquote uncle, who's their plug. His name is Lupe Ledezma. Lupe kind of they got hit that one of their operations got hit they lost some money

the twins were always ones to have money to they fix things with their brains they went and worked at McDonald's just so that they can figure out what is it that makes McDonald's what it is and they figured out it was the compartmentalization of the jobs

that if you have your job I give you a job you can't fuck that up right if I have you do A, B, and C you might fuck that up. But if I have you just doing A, you got it, right? And, you know, so they go to Mexico, they get with Lupe, Lupe says they got, you know, they owe him something. But they're not worried about it.

It's like, and I'm talking about this is a man who Peter Flores would make sure took his medication. Like, that's the kind of relationship they had. Like, yo, you good? You took your medication and make sure he was right. Well, one day, Peter comes up missing. and the uncle comes up missing and Jay finds out that they've kidnapped

his brother and his uncle. Who's they? Don't know yet. Okay. So he finds out they kidnapped his brother and his uncle and he's trying to get them back and he doesn't know which way to go in and he gets through somebody that gets him through to Chappo.

Right? But he goes there and he says it's like a 17-year-old kid flying a Cessna. He gets into Cessna. Jay gets in the Cessna. He said there's a 50 cow in the back and they tell him if you see government plane out here

Get busy with that 50 cow Jay's like what the fuck Boom he said they land on the side of a mountain All right He lands on the side of the mountain They bring them He said they brought him to the man They brought him to the man

He said this Didn't look like nothing special A guy with a trucker hat Some jeans and flannel And they said sir You know They introduced them They introduced Jay

You know Peter had been kidnapped multiple times this is how we know this is how we know the first guy that kidnapped him was Saul it was a guy from the neighborhood he was a thief

but he had a partner that was a cop but this was in Chicago this was in Chicago so that already happened so this is a whole other kidnapping you know there's a whole other kidnapping I know we're all over the place with that but this is in his first time and that's something to talk about because that guy

made a million dollars snitching that guy had a cop that was his partner everybody went to jail you know But we'll get to that. But so boom, he gets kidnapped. Jay goes to, so Jay's always the one that got to go figure it out. Right.

So he goes to figure it out. And Chapo says, well, you owe me, he didn't even know the number. Chappo says, you owe me $10 million. And he didn't know the number at that point. He said, but I don't owe you $10 million. And Jay, you know, they're very astute. He pulls out his logs.

I hear $1.7 million. I got receipts. I got receipts. I got receipts. I got you, bro. And Chappo's like, bro, anybody could write on that paper. And you know what I'm saying?

That don't mean, you know, that that's what it is. From my understanding, you owe me $10 million. And he's like, Chapo, you know, I'm trying to get my brother back. I'm trying to help you understand. And then he kind of says something to the effect of, well, do we know if Lupe's okay? And Chappo's like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, they said Lupe got snatched with my brother too. Who told you that?

And he was like, you know, he was like, no, Lupe's fine. So it was Lupe who kidnapped Peter. Okay. It was Lupe who kidnapped Peter. So now Jay is putting all this. All this is happening in his head while he's standing there with dude. And ironically, he tells him, you know, if you want me to believe that Lupe did that, you have to get me proof. And Jay said, how can I get you proof?

And Chapo gave him the idea to record Lupe. Okay. I thought the irony in that was just too much that years down the line, these dudes knock you down with a, with a, with a, with a, with, a conversation that's recorded, but you planted the seed for that, Papas. That was a misstep right there. You put that shit in their head and boom, they had something now, you know. So he goes, he goes to clear it up. They say, okay, I'm going to give you two guys, two, three guys.

I'm going to send you over there. You go over there and you get him on tape. They get over there as soon as they get there. Lupe comes out. All his guys come out with hammers in Jay's face. pissed off arguing because Lupe's on a, you know, no, you're not going to, you owe 10 million dollars. I don't know shit. You owe 10 million dollars. And Jay's like, bro, how could you do this? I can, you know, we're family. How could you do this? They get into an argument or whatever.

He wants to smoke Jay because he wants Jay to shut his mouth. He don't want Chapo knowing all of these things that he's doing. So they had this conversation. He gets it on tape. And because of the grace of Chappo giving them two guys, Jay gets out of their life. And they go back and they report to Chapo and they say, hey man, here's the tape. And Chapo's disappointed. He's like, then he looks at Jay and says, he still owe me $10 million.

Not Lupe owe me 10. You still owe me 10 million. Somebody, my thought is Lupe going to pay with his life. One of y'all going to give me my $10 million, you know. So then they got into a position where they had to raise the money, get the money together, get the money together, jewelry, whatever they can do. He put them in.

Why is it $10 million? Is it really 10 million? You just came up with a fucking number. I guess Lupe's shorted Chapo 10 million. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So he put that 10 million on them. And they were the distributor. They were the guy.

He was basically, Chapo was saying, well, I thought you guys were Lupe's workers. And Jay was like, no, he fucking works for us. We're the guys, basically. We're the guys that pay for the shit, distribute the shit, do it all, you know? So boom, Lupe did that. He's like, you still owe us to $10 million. Jay had to figure out the $10 million to get his brother. And I must say, man,

If you listen to that story, Peter Flores almost did not make it. And I think he suffers from kidney, not the kidney disease, but kidney problems and stuff to this day over the abuse that he took sitting there. I don't remember how long he was there. I don't know if it was 19 days or something, something two weekish, two, three weekish. And then I believe it got to the point where he was about to die in their hands. Yeah, in their custody. And they were like, you know what?

Get that money together, bro. But we're going to give you your brother back. You know what I'm saying? No worry. We're going to give you your brother back. But he was in bad shape. They just leave him out in the darkness of nowhere. He's emaciated.

He's unkept. He's beard. He's thin. He said that he was on a hill. And with all the energy he had, he got down the hill to see if he can get signal because they threw him a cell phone, realized the signal was worse down there than up there. So he had to make his way back up the hill.

And he just didn't have it. and he finally gets through to his brother. And they don't know where he's at. He don't know where he's at. They don't know where he's at. He's just driving and the phone's dying. And they ought to use somehow their twin telepathy worked out for them. I guess there was a huge mountain that you drive down.

And Jay was like, bro, if you see the lights, I'm going to flash my lights. I'm going to flash my lights coming down the mountain. He flashed his lights and he peeped him. And he was like, keep coming. And he went and rescued his brother and saved his brother out there. But after they paid that money and saved his brother, Chapa was like, I like the way these guys handled this shit. I hear nothing but good things about the money. And they became the golden goose of the Sinaloa cartel.

And if you ask me, they were at the dismay of all of the other Sikarios that sold. Because that's what everybody thinks everybody's a drug trafficker. No, some of these guys are just goons that sell a little work on the side. You know what I'm saying? They're not sitting at the table making decisions with my own. One of the first things, you know, when they went back and they met up with my own Chapo and, you know, they saw Peter and they were like, man, glad to see you alive. You know, even it's such a dirtbag situation too because during this time that Jay is trying to get his brother back, Chapo had just lost his brother. So he's telling Jay, you know, I just lost a brother, bro.

You should do anything to get your brother back. Losing the brother is horrible. I was like, man, fuck your bites. Yeah, I was going to say, you could get my brother back right fucking now. Yeah, how you got to do, snap your fingers. But yeah, so to the dismay of other guys, they made a decision and they told Chopin Mayo, we don't want to deal with no middlemen because we don't want that to happen again. I don't want to, I'm not under no chinoanthrax.

I'm not under know none of these guys. I'm just throwing that name out there because those guys weren't even on the radar. We had this argument in the comments. Like people want what they think in their head to be how it was. And it's like, look, man, there's four sides to a table. You know what I'm saying? There's not 50 sides to a table where you got all the things. these guys get to sit with these guys and make decisions.

But at that point, the twins in their early 20s, because they're 19, 20, 21 years old, I mean, they were 25 when they turned themselves in. At that point, they're sitting at the table with the people who have been the bosses for the last 30 years, you know, and they were the golden goose. They were the golden goose. And that's why when the split happened, it was like, okay, you work with them. We're going to smoke you. And they were saying, if you work with them, we're going to smoke you.

So when I was first breaking this down and everybody was bitching about them snitching, I said to myself, okay, well, what do you do when you've, I get it. You robbed the liquor store, somebody snitched, or you sold a couple nickel bags and somebody snitched. But what happens when you've reached the top of the game? And there's nowhere else to go. You got three options in their situation. Okay, we're threatening to kill you.

If you work with them, we thought, okay, you got three options. You just let them kill everybody. You die. Your family gets wiped out. You go smoke chapel. you smoke my or you smoke them all and you become the man or you go to the federal government those are you well I was going to say or you just do what life in prison

oh yeah oh there you go there's the fore that that's what that's what I think that goes with dying right I was going to say that's what everybody in the comments section always wants well you do the time bro you just do the talk like get the fucking you work at fucking Walmart for a bunch of dude you know what I'm saying yeah yeah you work at fucking Walmart well I kept my mouth shit you got pulled over one time with a fucking dime bag and the side of the fucking road or maybe brought down town and you told the fucking cop I don't know who did it.

And you ended up with two years probation. Like stop it. You were never fine. Or I love it when the guys say, oh, the cops, he told me I was facing 20 years. You were caught with a fucking dime bag. They told me I was facing 150 fucking years. You know what I'm saying? So cut the shit.

They're always going to scare you. You fucking held strong. You didn't tell them who your fucking contact was. You got two years probation. You were never facing 20 years. We're facing two years probation, which is what you played guilty to. And you know that if you've ever got caught with more than what you just got caught with you know. But you weren't even competent to get any more than that.

You said like I love these guys that work at work at fucking Walmart. I hate to say Walmart because I was like, what's wrong with Walmart? Come on, man. You got to go to Walmart every now. I got to pick a better. I want to go. Let's go to Target. You stock shelves at Target.

You've watched all the godfathers. You think you're a gangster. Yeah. Like stop, bro. You don't fucking know. You know, when you're sitting, when you get locked up and you don't have bond and your wife and two kids are sitting in that fucking room with you, crying their fucking eyes out. And you already know, she ain't waiting. My kids are telling some, calling somebody else daddy.

If I even get more than a couple years, they're calling somebody else daddy. And I know this woman, she'll turn on me. She'll turn those kids on me. She ain't coming to see me. Some other dude's banging her. And let's face it, you're a buck fucking 35. and you ain't taking on some six-foot fucking guy when you get out, you never see your kids yet.

And for the first year, you're on the phone. Where you was at last night, bitch? Absolutely. Or I go ahead and I cooperate, and I may be at, and they'll give me bond immediately, and I'll get five years paper. Right. Yeah.

I mean, I argue with the guys about it too, because there are guys that do hold it down and stand up, and they do it forever. Good for them, solution to them. They made their choice. I was watching last night, I was watching a crime and investigations documentary on John Gotti Jr. And I was watching a conversation that John Gotti Jr. had with his father the last time he saw him,

where he was like, if I'm going to take a plea, I have to talk to my father first. And by this time, John Gotti was already, the cancer was eating him up. He had half a jaw. But if you watch the video, he's sitting there telling himself, where your balls at? Stand up. Be a man. You, you know, and the son said him, dad, you know, the son went in there to tell him I'm going to take this plea. Yeah.

And you could see him crumbling under the pressure of this man who's, who's a shell. It's probably hoping, hoping that he would say, do it. Do it. See, he's going in there to see a man who's a shell of himself, but that shell is still crushing him under the pressure of who he is. Salutes to John Gotti for being that dude that had lived by a cold and said, this is who I am. I'm going to do this.

I'm going to say, fuck you to the government, to the day that I die and beyond. Because a lot of, John Gotti gave the government a lot of fuck you, right? But towards the end of it, he said, he gave up and he tells him, look, just try to, they're always, he told him the truth, though. He said, they're going to keep hunting for you. They're going to keep, they're never going to let you rest. I mean, John Gotti Jr. ended up beating more cases than the Teflon Dane ever did. But he told him, try to get no time or at least get out in time to raise your kid. It's a decision he made for his family.

So it's a different decision than his father made. There are stand-up guys. The guys who cooperated or say, those guys are fucking stupid. stupid, right? And those guys will say, those guys are fucking rats, you know? I'm good with that. Yeah, those guys are rats. But I had to, I have to honor and respect the guys that lived by a cold.

Yeah, look at Skinny Joey Merlino. I don't think he'd ever take a fucking plea, ever, you know? Right, right. I don't, not a plea, sorry. I don't think he would never, I don't think he'd ever cooperate. I think he'd rather just go to prison for the rest of his life. Okay. Good for you.

You know? What is it that we say a lot on the channel? Jay brought up. He said it's written all over to jail. You know, some guy snitch. And there's two kind of guys in prison, the guy who snitch and the guy who wish he snitched. Right. You know, and my thing is, you know, like one time I had an argument with Jay because he was like, yeah.

You know, guys were coming to my channel and be like, Jay, I'm in a fucked up position. What can I do? And he want to consult him. I'm like, that's cool. You can start a snitch school. But how about we teach these kids to stay out the crime business because it's fucking dead? Right. let's keep them out of it all together because it's a dead situation you know what I'm saying

but I still like I said I have to honor a man who lives by a code there's a lot of guys out there that don't have a code some people think that because you cooperate in a legal situation I can't cheat on my wife in front of you Matt because you might go tell my wife some shit it always loves that it always becomes 100% extreme you tell on your own mother you this you just stop bro cut the fuck my mother ain't got shit to tell on here come on man like it's always one extreme to the other. It's a case for every person. It's what they go through and what, you know, what's happening.

And sometimes you get railroaded by the government. You give them so much, give them so much, give them so much, give them so much. And they give you a kick in your ass. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So at what point, so Chapo is now dealing with the twins, non-fucking stop. He's sending, what, thousands of keys every single.

We can throw numbers around all day. It's insane. Let's just say that they, we have this argument on the channel that, oh, who's the bigger American? There was no bigger American drug dealers than the Flores Swins. It's just what it is. So what happens? How does that fall apart? So they're just sitting around watching the betrayal.

They're watching how. And they're sitting on one ass cheek like, yo, all I have to do is serve this guy a cold cup of coffee over here. His not even chopper or sacario for him to turn on me and next thing you know, there's some shit going down, you know. Yeah. They started seeing those things. They started recognizing those things. They started seeing, you know, he told the story on a live stream like two weeks ago about a friend of theirs who had, who just got caught. He might be getting extradited to this country. A friend of theirs that just got caught that he met the day that he met Chappo. And he talks about a phone call where the guy's sitting next to him, Mayo's people get on the phone with Jay. And they say, hey, man, we're just letting you know that any of those Beltran labor guys, you see any, any, we're just letting you know that any of those Beltran labor guys. You see any? see any of them, everybody's dead. There's no, we're not playing no games. This is a rap. We see them. They're done. And not only if we see them, we're looking for them.

Dude's sitting right next to him. I believe his name was Bayo. And they said, as a matter of fact, Jay, what's up with your boy, Paiio? Sitting right there shitting himself. And Jay's like, yeah, he, you know, the war got hot, went back to his family in the States. Yeah, why don't you

hit him up, try to convince him to come back? I mean, I could try, but, you know, I don't think he's going to do it. We'll give it a try anyway. And dude's sitting there like, what is going on? And that's what they were seeing. It was just a matter of time. I was not just that.

They found out that he was sitting right next to him. I was on speaker and you did. Now you're done. Done. Not just you. You, your twin brother, his wife, your wife, kid, everybody gone. You know, and everything that's happening now with Ovidio, Joaquin, cooperating, getting 17 family members sent to this, you know,

you can be an illegal immigrant in this country. All you have to do is cooperate. If you got somebody big enough to cooperate against like El Mayo, they'll bring your whole family over the border, you know. But all of these things that are happening now, all of these betrayals, all of these wars, they saw that shit coming. So what happened?

Do they get busted? No. They just say, we can't do this anymore. I heard Johnny Mitchell one time say, he was telling Charlie, the girl that did the podcast with the twins, he was like, those are the worst. But it's like in their position, no, they reached out to the United States government

because you know what Jay, like it, or not likens it to, he attributes it to an interview he saw of Sammy the Bull Garvano. He saw how much time Sammy the Bull got for his deal and he reached out to his brother and said, maybe we could do this. Maybe we can get out of this because they felt the pressure. They knew this ain't forever. They were smart enough to see the signs at 25 years old, you know, signs that these 40, 50, 60-year-old men couldn't see.

And they made the decision themselves. They were only fugitives with the Wisconsin case, as far as the Wisconsin case goes. But they weren't being hunted. These guys were living it up. You know what I'm saying? They had it all. They had the money. They were, you know, they was pushing loads through submarines, trains, planes, automobiles, whatever it is.

And one day they had that conversation. Jay told his brother, Peter, hey, man, maybe we could do this. If people were like, get the fuck out of here. You're trying to get everybody killed. Then later on that night, thought about it. it. Maybe we could do this shit, though. And then it became, okay, how do we get in contact with the United States government?

That became a whole thing, you know? And the government basically told them, well, yeah, you could do it, but you're on your own. Don't expect no help from us. Don't expect a recorder from us. You just got to get us evidence, but you got to do it on your own. And those dudes, and here's another thing. And people say I cape for these guys. Like, I'm the superhero for the twins.

No, I'm the superhero for the truth and common fucking sense. And I don't want to hear they're not built for this. They're not built for this. Motherfucker, they made it to the table by 25 years old. They were built for it, bro. They were built for it. They were built for drug dealing. They made it to the table.

How can you say they weren't when nobody you know will ever reach the lengths that they've reached, right? They went undercover basically nine months in Mexico. That shit is unheard of if he ain't some kind of special ops, you know. Could you imagine what would have happened if they'd even caught wind of that? Bro. What they would, these guys, they'd keep them alive for fucking six months torturing them.

That would have been, that would have been a, that would have been a pain nobody should bear. How are you going to call those guys' pussies? I'd have been fucking terrified. How are you going to call those guys' pussies? Like, yo, their pussies,

they was undercover. They could have probably cut, cut bait and just came back to the United States and figured something out, you know? You know what's funny is that, so I don't, I don't know the whole story.

Like, I didn't know that. I always assumed they were indicted. Nope. And they decided to cooperate, which they were indicted, but they weren't in danger of being. Like, some of these guys go indicted for fucking decades. Exactly. Like, they weren't, they were in a completely different jurisdiction. They weren't.

And that they decided, you know what we need to do? Let's go in. Like, that to me, that's not, hey, I'm trying to, I guess they are still kind of trying to save their ass. But they're not saving their ass from the government. they're saving their ass from the industry in general. Yeah. Because keep in mind, not only are they doing this reconnaissance, not only are they trying to get these receipts and information,

but there's a war going on at the same time that they're in the middle of and a business happening. So in this nine months, they're giving up loads to the government. They're coming up short on money that they never came up short on before. They got to answer questions that they never had to answer before. You know, but all of these things had to happen. You know, if you look at the conversation that Peter Pedro had that eventually got Chapo on the line.

So they recorded Matt phone calls like with Choppos kids, getting contact with Choppel. But they needed to get Choppel on the phone and they needed to get Choppel talking numbers. There was some H that they had. And they didn't like to deal in anything other than the blow. But in the cartel, they're going to throw you a bone. You're going to take it because that's what you do to keep them happy. All right? They had this blow shipment.

If you listen to that phone call, they're telling Choppel. Can you give me a $5,000 discount? Because I'm trying to make something up because that heroin we got, half of that shit was bad. They said, shy, that shit was perfect. It was beautiful. But we had to tell him that in order to get him to start talking these negotiations about money because that's what they needed on the recording.

You know, nine months undercover doing that. They said they were going to the bathroom with the wives and have these conversations amongst themselves. And even when they told the wives, you know, the wives are like, what? oh Valerie we're thinking about talking Valerie I'm not no snitch you know what I'm saying I'm not doing this because

in the past they had tried to make Valerie testify against her ex-husband they tried to get her to wear a wire on him and she didn't go and they put her in jail over the shit you know so they had to it was a family it was a family situation where they had to deal with each other

figure out with each other and then they had to go undercover for nine months and then they didn't know when the U.S. was going to come save them or once they got to they sent them to tape then the U.S. was like, we're coming for you, we're coming to get you. There was no plan in place. Because in their mind, it was like, is this going to happen?

Is it not going to happen? So they were just doing, doing, doing. They weren't preparing for the day that the investigation was over and it was time to get on a plane and go. So the feds were coming to get Peter and Jay, but the wives, the kids, the brothers, the mother, the father, they're all there. And they got security.

security that is part of the Cinelloa cartel They had to fake We're arguing She's Val flipping out They said we're coming to get you Val flipping out Getting all the paperwork

Anything that can connect them to the U.S. Anything that can get their address That could docks them in the U.S. Anything they're burning shit And she's flipping out And the security's looking What the fuck is going on? Oh, they're arguing

They're just arguing They're having, they got beef. The twins are rode out Now it's the wife's got to figure out how to get across the border. So they jump in these expensive cars in the middle of they're freaking out. Their husbands were just taken. They know what's happening.

They had to explain to everybody else what's happening because they're looking funny at what's going on. No, no, we just got to go do this. And there was no plan. I shit all over them in that podcast, the Surviving O'Chapa podcast when I did my reaction to it. Because I was like, how do you do nine months of being undercover and you don't got a plan an exit strategy to get everybody out of it.

And it was just too much. They were under too much, you know. Val, being the go-getter that she is, she piled everybody up. You know, Val and Vee, piled everybody up. And they got their asses in the car and they went. They got to the border. They didn't want to let their father, the twins' father and brother across the border. So they had to stay a little longer.

They didn't want to let his kids. One of the kids come in because one of the kids was born there. So it was a whole shit show, you know. But they got out of there. They made it out of there. And the twins got flown over. and next thing you know, then they got it there, and then they, you know, as you know, they had to sit their ass down at the desk just like this.

And for the next seven months, they had to give all the more information they had, you know. And another strange thing about the twins that's different from everything else, they weren't psychopaths. I heard you say somebody had told you about a chick that was threatening to blow up your operation. They were like, why don't you kill her? And you're like, because I'm not a killer, motherfucker. Yeah, I'm not going to kill anybody.

Coming from where I come from? Trust me, if I was, she'd have been the one. There were some plans. There were some long, there were some nights when I did some planning. But after a lot, I'm like, I can't do it. And those thoughts ain't illegal. Those thoughts ain't illegal. You can't get charged for them thoughts.

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Even better, our listeners will get 10% off for a limited time. Just visit ghostbed.com slash Cox, and use code Cox at the checkout. That's ghostbed.com slash com. Cox and use Code Cox for 10% off sitewide. People always said, you know, people believed that the twins had something to do with Valerie's husband, Cato being killed, right? Because they got, they quickly got together. We've been killed like Jesus.

Oh, yeah, he was murdered. He was murdered in a, it was like a truck trailer, but it was a barbershop. And he was sitting there watching the finals. And somebody came back up behind him and smoked them, you know. And people always, and then not long after Jay and Val were together, but they were all very close anyway, you know, already, you know what I'm saying? So that, it wasn't like they got together and then, you know, you know, learned each other and fell in love.

No, it was like, this shit happened. She leaned on him. Things happened and they ended up together. But everybody in my city believed, including me, that they had something to do with Kato getting smoked, right? and people used to use that to like you know to to shame them even before they um even before they cooperated you know while they were doing their thing oh no they did this and i believed it too so then um i realized i come to the conclusion that these guys don't have no bodies on their

case yeah i i like that about their story like i i really like that i talked to jay and he was saying um and he was saying that the interest is that he's Like, like, if somebody lost, somebody ripped us off, he's like, like, we're not, we're not going to go have him killed. We're not going to pay somebody to kill him. We're not, see his, we're certainly not going to kill him. He's like, well, they don't get to deal with this anymore. And that's going to hurt them in the long run. And that's just the way it is.

And I was thinking, it's funny, too, because when we wrote the story, American Narco, Pete had was, this is when I was locked up with Pete in prison. Oh, no shit. Yeah, Pierre, Rissini. Oh, yeah. So, because you keep jumping between. Yeah, I'll say Pedro from him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

But he kept talking about them. And he was just like, listen, these guys have a story. He's like, they're not psycho killers. They're not, he's like, they're smart. They have it. They did it in a very sophisticated way. They saw that there was an issue. They, you know, he's like they were in the right position at the right time to take advantage of the situation.

Like he was very impressed with how the whole thing unfolded. And he used to say, man, this got to, it's a fucking amazing story. It is. ought to write this story and I'm like we're fucking locked up and put like what he's like no we can order listen he's always willing to bring on these massive projects and I'm like are you fucking I got order a thousand dollars with a transcripts to try and put together yeah he is and I was like please can we finish this where we've got the guy sitting in front of us right right so so yeah so I saw that they didn't have no body you know well that was the word the words they had no

bodies and that's how they dealt with it they dealt with it is breakage if you rob me cool then Guess you don't work here no more. You know what I'm saying? It brings, murders bring on a lot more heat. Yeah, absolutely. And they knew that. It wasn't just some moral,

no, they knew it was morality and it was the, I'm not a killer. I know I'm not a killer. Right. I know that's not me. And I know where that ends up. I know where that leads.

Same way they saw it with the cartel doing it to each other. They knew where it led for them. And people, people ain't going to just believe that you ain't got no bodies because there's no precedent for it. They are the precedent for.

it. They are the precedent of guys that made it to the absolute top without bodies. And then people say, oh, but how you believe that, Shai? How you believe they didn't do? And here's what I don't like. I don't like disingenuous motherfuckers on the internet commenting with their, you know, from this moral high ground bullshit, you know, people used to lie and say, um, shy, they had to do it then. If they didn't do it, then why Valerie don't let Kato's mom see his kid? And it's like, Valerie and Cato don't have kids together. So you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

You know what I'm saying? And then they want to use Cato's name. And it's like you don't care about Cato. You just want to talk shit. So keep his name out of your fucking mouth and don't talk about him no more, you know? Everybody's an expert in the comments. Everybody's an expert in the comments. And they say, how could you believe this?

I said, because these motherfuckers had to tell all of their crimes. And if the Fed's fine, you know how? it is to find a body on these fools. If they find a body on these fools, deal out the window, you're going back to prison for the rest of your fucking life. Why, and none of this, would they not, and none of this immunity that they were going to get did they come off all the bodies and put all the body bags on the table? They didn't do that, right?

Because they ain't got no bodies. Period. If you can't believe that, then I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, well, there's some people, no matter how much information or whatever the new term is receipts, no matter how much you provide, they simply, they've got their version. in their mind and they're not going to change. Yeah, never enough evidence for a fool. Yeah.

Oh, I like that's better. That's a much faster version. Oh, I say it all the time on my channel. You know, when we're trying to get somebody to understand, never enough evidence for a full. And these people do 2.5 seconds of investigation of information. And then the next thing you know, they're pros. They want to tell you what you're talking about.

And again, I didn't know. I was just coming off of common sense when I was reacting to their moves. Common sense, what I learned in the street, you know, shit like that. But then getting their insight that open. up different ideas, different thoughts, different possibilities. These guys are not that. Like Pierre said, these guys were business guys that were definitely built for that business. You know what I'm saying?

And they did it well. But where were we? As far as them have no bodies, I think that's a precedent. I think that's some revolutionary shit when it comes to, you know, a crime story of this magnitude. Right. So they get grabbed. They get brought back. And then what?

They have to, they provide the information to government. got to get more information and, you know, from my understanding, it was, it was, you know, trying to, trying to save their friends. Because if you talk and I'm telling you, I get the calls from behind the scenes. Like, I'm, I've become like a second, I get the calls. And it's because I put the call out. This is not a channel to just cape and be superheroes for the Flores Twins. If you have been hurt by the Flores Twins decisions, we'll talk to you. They'll talk to you. We'll have this conversation. So people call me, but they don't want to talk. You know, what you see on the internet is liars and people who have already cooperated that

want to speak. The people that haven't cooperated and shit like that, they don't want to talk too much publicly on the internet. But they reach out to me and stuff like that through behind the scenes. And they tell me, this wasn't just some drug organizations. We were family. We'd go stay in Mexico with these dudes for this certain amount of time. And these weren't just Mexican dudes, these were mostly black dudes. They mostly dealt with black dudes in Chicago. And those guys say it was a family situation. And they say, shy, I would never.

I would have took a bullet for them dudes. I would never. And supposedly they tried during this giving their other information to kind of send the word out like, bro, you should cooperate, this is what's happening. Give the heads up, you know. Some guys took it and got out in 10 years, 12 years, 6 years. Some didn't, and they're doing football numbers. Yeah.

You know? But they spent the next seven months doing that. And then it was time to go to prison. And then they went to prison. And then they were separated. You know why they were separated, right? There's a thing called the three bees. And I'm not going to say which one of them did it.

Y'all could find that information on the internet because I don't get the text later. You sold me out. Salutes to them, I fuck with them. They had, they would get, it's the three Bs. billboards babies and a bentley a baby was conceived during a visit that's not good they bought billboards on the way to the prison i have pictures of them that i put up on my site that i put up on my channel my beloved vivie i'm glad that i married you i love you so much big hard valentines on on billboards all right and then bought their wife of bentley from the joint to but one of them bought

their wife of Bentley from the joint to, you know, for her to come visit them. These are all bad moves. Which is what got them separated. And this is the first time they're really, really apart, apart. Right. And then when they went to transfer the guy that bought the Bentley, conceived the baby, and put up the billboards, a big, you know, logistical situation like a prison,

they sent off the wrong one. They sent the wrong one to another prison. that didn't do nothing got sent to another person, right? But they actively separated them. They didn't see each other again for another 12 and a half years. Oh, shit. How much time did they do? 12 and a half years.

So that was right away that that happened? It was like the first year and a half in, I believe, if I recall correctly. So that happened. They were separated. And then after that, you just see, you know, Vicentillo talked, you know, all of them went down. Everybody, the Barbies, the Chino, the Chino, the, the, the, the, the, the, the cartel just began to crumble at that stage, you know? Was it Barbie that had the big shootout?

Was there a shootout with Barbie? I don't know. He's the one that they put him. They paraded him in front of he was smarting. He wearing a soccer shirt and shit. And there was a shootout, but all I saw was a video of him running and him begging for water. That's what I saw. But yeah, man, so to me, their story is an extraordinary story.

And like Pierre said, you know, it's stranger than fiction. And you got to work real hard to. fuck that story up. So if you're making a TV movie or something like that and you fuck that up, I don't know how you did it because their shit is extraordinary. I mean, you know, when they, when they kidnapped Pedro and had him locked up all that time, they had a parrot in there that would just say, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, he was being tortured in there by his parrot, you know?

So if that ain't a recipe for a great flick, I don't know what to tell you. Um, did you see the, uh, gosh, um, uh, um, um, come on. How am I not? Grisold de Blanco. Jesus. How could I not forget? How could I forget that? Um, did you see that one? The, uh, was it, the Netflix? Yeah. It was, it was horrible. Yeah, it felt like, uh, it was, it was, it doesn't like it felt like Hollywood. Yeah. If they, they made, they tried to do a whole kind of like, she was like, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, it was. Scarface kind of, you know what I'm saying? Like she's bringing everybody together and she's got this whole, she's in the big house and she's, yeah, it's, they, I really felt like they, they dramatized the living shit out of that. Yeah. But, and that's what the problem is is that so many times you see a movie and if you know the real story, especially on, you know, like.

Fails. Fuck. Pails in comparison. It's nothing. But when they do these series, though, that's why I think 50 cent, if he could do a. series he can dig in he can do an eight part series or a 10 part this listen think about the things that you didn't know that you just found out today yeah yeah that that alone is tip of the iceberg yeah tip of the iceberg of the madness you know because we ain't talking about the first guy the first guy saul saul rodriguez the first guy that kidnapped pedro he was notorious you know this guy what he would do is um let's say he knows an old lady that owns a bar right and this happened He knows a lady that owns a bar.

He knows that he's the only person with money that she knows. So he get her snatched up. She comes to him for the ransom. They release her. He charges her the Vig for the rest of her life. And that's what he was doing over and over again. He had a cop that was on his side. This guy was protected by the police.

He was on the payroll. This guy would get, I believe it was seven grand per key that he would get turned over to the law. Like we have a whole breakdown of it, of what, you know, how much he got paid. It was almost a million dollars. But he was a dirt bag from the hood that, so one day,

J&P separate, I believe Pedro was on his motorcycle. They ride out. He gets snatched up by the police. Police are the kidnappers. Right. He's missing. I believe they asked Jay for $3 million.

Jay called somebody familiar and said, you know who that sounded like on the phone sounded like Sao and they said well if you think it's Sao it's Saoo yeah um they paid the money they got their brother back right Saoo Sao been doing this to all kind of people

and they would find it they said one time I heard a story that that Cato caught him casing the crib one time smacked them the fuck up got him out of there but nobody could smoke the dude because you didn't want that police on your back, you smoke the guy, his partner

going to come looking for you, you know? So that guy, after the twins get popped off or not get popped off, after they turn themselves in and they're cooperating, word comes across that this guy wants to kidnap Valerie and that he wants to, you know, he wants to kidnap her for ransom. And they get word back to Jay and they're like, you know,

can we use her as bait? Jay's like you don't have to just tell them that we left a garage full of money and he'll show up for you and that's exactly what happened you know that's another thing

that people gave the twins credit for the people that did give them their credit they were they started their cooperation with any of you motherfuckers that own me money did me dirty this is

now it's your time now it's your day of reckoning you know what I'm saying to each his own That was what they won. But they didn't have to do much. They didn't have to use Valerie as bait, this guy. Boom.

He showed up to rob them of some money and they grabbed them? They said, just put it out there. Forget. Yeah, we know that he wants to kidnap Val, but just put the bug in his ear that we left some money in the garage. He's going to go get it. Right. And when he went and got it, they got him. He played himself.

But look at that. What happened to him? He's in prison right now. Oh, okay. He was in my live chat a couple of weeks ago. From prison? Talking about calling himself the forgotten, well, I believe it's him. Right.

I'll say this, calling himself the forgotten prisoner. It's like, Papa, you was the bottom of the barrel. Yeah, poor poor me. Yeah, you was the bottom of the barrel. You was just a dude that went and tried to take it, you know? But look at the character of these dudes. Jay reached out to him, spoke to him, had a conversation with him recently in prison. you know

to kind of you know because they knew they knew after the kidnapping they knew it was him again nobody's didn't do none they were

dude set up an all-star game weekend in Vegas that they were all that together you know they knew these things but these guys

were cerebral they knew when to jump when not to jump when to stay the fuck out of it when to pay you know

hey you know you know jail tell me all the time he said man we spent money to keep people alive

you know we'd rather pay the money then have to go get bodies and be followed around all day over these bodies, you know. So to me it's a whole different scenario. There's nothing status quo about their story. Nothing, not even a little bit, you know. 12 years in prison and you brought down chopo.

That seems like I should have walked. Do you see what I'm saying? I would have been like, yeah, I'm walking. You get out and then you get out, they take your wives, your wives, and they put them in prison. The wives are in prison right now. for what did they go to prison for uh money laundering evidently they were spending money well the government the government at some point they would they would turn over money to the government right and then at

some point the government didn't want the money no more they were like we we we'll get to that we need you to tell us this information about this this this this this and this so the ladies was like i got to get to and fro so they were spending the bread and their older brother was supposedly allegedly, well, they're all in prison, you know what I'm saying? Or home, or coming home at this point. I don't know if the brother's home yet. But the brother was, you know, he would get the money that they had stashed and he would give it to the girls and the girls were supposedly spending the money.

But this is money that they had claimed and told, supposedly told the government. We got this money. But they were like, okay, we'll do with that later. So the ladies were spending the bread. And then later on, they came and screwed the ladies over and sent the ladies to prison. These kids were without their parents for 12 and a half. half years, their fathers come home, they were without their fathers for 12 and a half years. These ladies would go visit these men on a regular basis.

That's another thing. People say, oh, their wives were opportunists and Valerie's an opportunist and she got with Kato and then got with him. They stood together all these years later through all this bullshit, through all this drama. Them women could have cut bait a long time ago and disappeared on these dudes. And they didn't. With the money. And they didn't.

They're right there and end up going to prison, you know? And hopefully they'll be. coming home soon. But that's to me more of the government sticking it to them. Sticking it to them. Like you said, they probably should have walked. Chapo? What?

Because some of the guys that had bodies, lots of bodies, the chino anthraxes that he did with like six years. You give these guys 14 years? And not only that, you know, Jay almost passed away. He had like a sepsis shock in prison. He almost passed away in prison. It's just, their story is stranger than fiction for people. that say that they're not built for it.

They're little dudes and they're soft. And they don't have the typical cartel look. You know what I'm saying? These are two dudes, soft faces. You know, they don't have that look. That's what people want. Well, you people have been sold that shit on TV. These motherfucking guys are different.

Just the same way you look at Chapo, you see a guy with a mustache and a trucker hat, but he's a gruesome psychotic killer and a pet and a chomes and all of these things. and you're sitting there wearing the shirt and you're glorifying this fucking dude fuck that dude I don't care if you want to sell dope cool

good luck bro I hope it works for you you know what I'm saying but at the end of the day once you make some money if you start taking that money to hurt innocent people then you're just a piece of shit too you're no longer the streets for me

people say oh it's gangster he did this that's gangster no it's not gangster that's pussy shit you know what I'm saying you know oppressing your people you know kidnapping girls in your community

community, in any community, but I'm saying, like, Senaloa is just, they're trapped. Those people are trapped, you know what I'm saying? And it's a sad story, you know? It's a sad story. Speaking of stories, one of my favorite stories, cooperation stories, is Juan Sanchez. Do you know who Juan Sanchez is?

Very common name, so it could be 50 different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, every time I say Juan says, they're like, that's like, just like, John Smith. Yeah, yeah, what are you talking about? So he's from Venezuela, came in the United States. Anyway, he ended up doing a bunch of real estate scams, right?

Real estate fraud. Everybody used to, in prison, used to say, oh, he's the Spanish Matt Cox. Oh, shit. So he, anyway. Do you hold him in such regard? Yeah, I do. He's pretty good. He's pretty good.

So he, he, there's a whole series of stories he told him. He's been kidnapped in Venice. He lost a ton of their money. And I've put it this way. One of the versions is during the financial crisis, the Venezuela government, which is the mob, it's like a mob, you know, that they're not, it's not a normal government. Right. They were sending him money because they're getting money from Colombia and the cartels to

launder money. Supposedly the cartels in Colombia and Mexico think that because they're running the government, they know how to launder money. But the truth is, it just happens to be that like the mob is in charge is now the government. He's like, doesn't mean just because they have matching outfits doesn't mean that they're not still just a mob. And he said, so they end up contact. He gets in contact with these guys. He actually goes there to Venezuela to raise money because he's like several projects he's in charge of are going under.

Okay. So they goes to them. And this is just during the beginning of the financial crisis, I'm pretty sure. And they give him money. They give him, you know, whatever, 5 million, 10 million. I forget how many, how much it is. And he's putting the money into these complexes or these subdivisions. And the, but it doesn't matter because they build the places, the whole place is going, you know, the financial crisis is all going down.

He can't sell the properties. He can't sell the mortgage. He can't get rid of them. They lose the money. Okay. These guys are contacting him constantly. In one point, he flies back there. They kidnap him.

and keep them in a motel for four or five days until eventually the guards that they've got watching them are drunks and they get drunk one night and he escapes gets into an airplane and flies back to the United States. Once he eventually gets caught, right? So eventually the government indicts, U.S. government indicts him everything as they're unraveling his case

and he's locked up in, I think he's in New York, he's locked up. And he's locked up. And at one, and we're talking about the FBI's continually coming to see him, different agents, different. He said at one point, these two guys come in, and this is all without his lawyer, by the way. He's got like a public defender at this point who never wants to talk to him. He can't give him any money.

So these two guys come to him one day, and he's like, I assumed they were FBI. Turns out they were CIA. Oh, shit. And they come in. Because later when he talks to his attorney about it, his attorney is like, did they show you FBI badges? he's like, well, no, but I mean, I thought they were, yeah, they said they were. We're the same shoot. Yeah, I mean, yeah, and he's like, yeah, that's not who they were.

When they went through his phone, they ended up finding a cell number for what is essentially, like, the U.S. attorney for the United States, it's the equivalent in Venezuela. And he's like, so it's like the U.S. attorney in Venezuela, right? So it's a Venezuelan top dog attorney. Right. And he's like, right. And they're talking to him. they're like, you had this cell phone number.

Do you know who this guy is? He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so-and-so. They show him a picture. He's like, yeah, yeah. They're like, yeah, yeah. He was at a party I went to whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, he's so-and-so. These guys, he's one of the guys.

They sent me the money. He, like, they were threatening him. If you don't give us the money back, we're going to fucking off you. We're going to this, where that. They actually went into a prison and videoed a guy dancing. they take a something and they stick it in the guy. The guy's dancing around screaming Juan Sanchez, Juan Sanchez, this is what's going to happen to you look.

This is in prison. And they end up executing him on like video. And they send it to Juan. And so they're like, we saw the video. He's like, yeah, he's one of the guys. That's one of the guys that sent me in the video. That's one of the guys that had kidnapped me. And he's explained all, yeah, yeah, he's one in the group.

Yeah, he's like, and you're like, you've met him. And he's like, yeah. They're like, do you know who he is? He's out of somebody in the government. And they explain who he is. He's like, okay. And they're like, yeah, we've had him. He was indicted five years ago.

Like we've done, we've, we, we'd love to get our hands on him. He's like, do you want me to have him come in the United States? He's like, what, what do you mean? Yeah, yeah. He said, so he said six months ago or something before I got arrested. He's like, while they were threatening me, he had contacted him and said, hey, I want to bring my family to go to Disney World. And he said, And they said, can you figure

that how to do that? And he goes, yeah, he said, I can open up a company and have that company say that they're hiring you. And that might get you the ability, I might be able to then get you with permission to come to the United States.

He said, but I don't really know because I'll have just started the company. Like it's not like they have tax returns and they know it's an established company. Like, I don't know if it'll work or not, but it might. And the guy goes, we'll try it. Just keep in mind, these guys, once he had lost their money, they gave more money.

Right, right, right. Like, he was like, no, I need more money to finish the thing. I can get you all the money. And they gave them more money. These guys rob each other and do everything and their friends the next day. Right. And he was like, at one point, they were like, we need these cars. He said, give me this much money, I'll get to the cars.

Lost that money. Like, he kept robbing him. So he goes, I can maybe get you flown in, blah, blah, let me see. So he fills out, he does the company, does the company, fills out the paperwork, sends it to the guy. The guy sends it to the U.S. Embassy there to try and get some kind of a whatever that permit is. You need to come in the United States, a visa, whatever. And the U.S. State Department down there, the U.S. Embassy says, no, he's not getting one. Like, this company just got established.

It needs to be open for five years. Whatever the reason is. They said, no. And the guy called him up yelling at him. I got a letter for that. He's like, I told you I didn't know if it did work. So he explains that to the CIA agents. And they're like, he's like, so I, all you really have.

have to do is you have his address, you have his information. He was just write him a letter from the U.S. Embassy saying it was a mistake. And it's clear. And he can come in. He's I'm telling you, be on the next plane. And they're like, he can't be that stupid. And he goes, he can. He can. He so can. Yeah, he said, listen, he said, you don't get to the level that these guys are at because you're smart. You get there because you're brutal. He is, I assure you, he is that stupid. He will be on the next plane. I agree. And they were like, huh, well, they said, well, we'll see. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll let you know. He's like, okay, well, let me know. Because he's trying to do everything you can to get out of this fucking situation. He's in. He's got to do 25 years. The guy leaves. You know, the two guys

leave. He gets sentenced. I forget how much time, uh, Juan got 15 years, 20 years. I forget. He ended up raising, by the way, $45,000 for his attorney, new attorney, by doing a Facebook pet post. This guy's a hustler. From in prison, he gets on the phone, or does he send an email? Somehow he contacts his sister-in-law and says, I need you to get into my Facebook account. I need you to send a post. Here's what it's going to say. I remember it said, I know a lot of you haven't heard from me in a long time.

I was arrested six months ago. I'm currently, or I was just sentenced to whatever it was. was 20 years. I forget what the amount of it. 20 years, the government has taken all of my money, all of my properties, my family, they've taken my freedom. He said, and unless, he said, and unless, he said, and now they're taking the last thing I was holding on to, which is my pride. He said, I need $45,000 or I'm going to spend the next 20 years in federal prison. And he said, here is my, I need you to send whatever you can to my lawyer, to this lawyer, gives them an address and a phone number.

The lawyer eventually comes back to the prison like a month later and says, listen, tell your friends to stop sending me checks for $30 and $20. Like you set up a PayPal account, get it all sent to PayPal. He raises $45,000 from that. is amazing. So anyway, back to the original story. The two guys leave. He gets sentenced to whatever it was,

20 years, 15 years, I forget, goes to prison. And one day he's at Coleman, low, with me. A guy walks up to him and says, hey man, did you hear that? See that shit in fucking the newspaper, about that guy from Venezuela?

He's like, no, what is it? And the guy, they hand in the paper, and he opens it up. He goes, it's the fucking guy. He, they sent him the U.S. Embassy, sent him the letter saying, you're approved to come to the United States.

He grabs his couple of kids and his wife. They put on Mickey Mouse outfits. They got the fucking airs on. They jump on the plane. They fly into Orlando. No, it was Miami. Fly into Miami, because they're going to go to Orlando, but they fly into Miami.

They get off the plane. They're ready to go see Mickey Mouse. It's the shit. Boom, they grab them right there. It's crazy. And arrest him. That guy, by the way, ends up a year or so later, they end up at back.

He also. comes to Coleman and they see each other. And the guy says to him, because by this point, it's, in the newspapers that Juan has cooperated, everything. This guy ends up, he and the guy from Venezuela, by the way, top dog cooperates. The law boy, top law boy, too. He cooperates. He ends up doing like four years, less time than Juan, by the way. And this guy's, they made it to Disney eventually. Oh, this guy's a murderer, everything. He comes in and when he sees Juan in prison, he walks up, to him because guys are like, hey, you know, that guy, he's here. And he's like, Juan's like, huh? He sees him and the guy walks up to him. Oh, no, Juan, I think Juan finds him and says,

hey, man, what's up? You know, he's wondering, like, am I going to have to check in? Am I going to have to, what's happening? Like, this is a big guy. He's like, what's up, man? He said, what's not tough because Juan's not a tough guy. He's like, hey, how's it going? What's going on? The guy looks at him. He says, yeah, he says, you got me, you're the reason I'm here. And he said, you did kidnap me. He's like, you did lose my money. He's like, what are we going to do? Just keep going around around about this.

Like, what are we doing? He said, are we good? And he's like, yeah, we're good. I'm going to be out of here in a few years. We're good. It's fine. I got no problems with you. He's like, okay.

That was it. Of course, that guy ends up getting it. Juan still, Juan ended up, U.S. attorney didn't want to, U.S. attorney hated him so much. He wouldn't budge. He didn't want to give him anything. He eventually gets time off his sentence.

Then they send him to ice in an ice facility. Then in the ice facility, they find out he cooperated. He spends his time in the shoe in the ice facility. Oh, no. The government's trying to send him back. He's like, you can't send me back to Venezuela. They'll kill me in Venezuela. I didn't cooperate against other criminals.

I cooperated against the government. There are people right now in Venezuela that can't leave Venezuela anywhere that's extraditable. They can't leave that country because I got them indicted. That's correct. And the government's trying to send him back and get him murdered. Right, right. So anyway. Not to mention the top law boy is probably back in Venezuela.

By now got his job back. He's back at his death. Oh, he's not going to be as okay when he's in his country. He's not going to be okay anymore. None of that. But I love the fact that he's like, that he got the guy. He's like, ah, write a letter. He'll fly in for Disney with his kids.

They grab him at the hospital at the airport. That was the same move with Saul. It was like, listen, we don't have to put Val out there as bait. Tell him there's 30 keys in the garage at the twins left. He'll come and get it. And then when you know, you know, you know. And these guys are so thirsty. And again, so stupid. Again, you got to be brutal. And brazen. Yeah. You get away with shit for so long, you think you're invincible. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, it's just, it's not a unique story. It's not a story that hasn't been told. We see it over and over and over again. These brutes rise to power. You take that power away. They are, they are quiet little church mice, you know. It's just what it is.

Oh, yeah. Listen, over the phone, I'm a badass. I will fuck I'll say all kinds of crazy shit I'm over the phone I know lots of guys in the comments that are fucking maniacs till you actually respond to them Oh yeah

Oh bro I didn't mean that You know I love your shit I watch all your stuff You were just saying I was a piece of garbage Yeah Unchained behavior Right

Yeah and then they were yeah They're like I just wanted your attention Yeah I can see I see that Yeah Now you got it motherfucker Now I'm calling you out your name Right

No bro I think I probably do the same thing In your position No doubt I don't know if you heard recently about the what happened on the Las Vegas strip between two YouTubers. There was two YouTubers that had been beaten.

Somebody got killed. Somebody got shot. Sin City, Manny and Fini the legend. They would just shit talk each other on the internet. Finney made it his business to just destroy this guy's channel and they just added over and over. And they were kind of, they had physical altercations before. But this time they just, they saw each other.

Mani knew that Finney was in town. and it all happened on live stream. He walked up. His wife noticed Finney's wife noticed Manny. She's like, don't come over here with that bullshit. She'd get between him and Finney. He just upstrap smoked Finney and then smoked his wife. Left him both right there on the pavement.

This is a YouTube channel. Two YouTubers. See, we're in some dangerous shit here, Colby. This pull up. We're the YouTubers are the new gangsters. Yeah, it's crazy. What were their YouTube channel is about? Well, Finney's YouTube channel was about Mani.

That's all he did was shit Mani all day long. And Mani's channel was Mani would, he was like the king of the strip. You know, he would go to restaurants and he was always, he would paint his face. And they would do these big, like, you know, performances on the street and shit like that. It was strange. I didn't know about either one of them until it went down. And they're two YouTubers. He's a two YouTubers.

But here's the thing. I have a friend, shout out Zaya X. You know, he had a channel like that. There's a lot of channels like that where they're just based on personal shit with people. And this situation has changed his life. He's deleting shit off his channel. He's like, I ain't got nothing to say to nobody. Troll all you want.

You know, because this pull up, everybody's daring each other to pull up. Pull up. You ain't going to pull up. You're talking shit on the internet. Pull up. When somebody pulls up, shit gets bloody. People pull up and you end up dead. Okay, so, all right.

So the one guy got arrested, obviously. He shot him on, he killed him on camera. And he claimed self-defense, but that shit ain't going to fly. No, self-defense. He said that he felt like Finney was reaching and that the gimbal that she had was black and shiny, and he thought it was a gun. That shit. You approached the guy on the strip.

You could have walked away. Not only that. He's on video all day long. Where you had, I know you around. I'm coming. He said, I've been to every casino. I've been on every street. Yeah, you're done.

You're done. You're making justice to. You're done. It pops. You popped. I mean, this is YouTube. YouTube. I can't imagine anything more silly than taking a serious grudge against somebody on a YouTube channel.

I mean, the cartel's doing it now. Oh, yeah, where the guys talk shit and then they hunt them down. And not only that, not only do they hunt them down, you know, just talk about this snitch shit again. You know what I'm saying? They have full-on pamphlets, both sides. The Chapito side, the Mayo. side. They throw out pan flips like old school style. I used to throw a bunch of flyers off a fucking plane with all the YouTubers that are connected and that I picked the side and said these people

get paid from that cartel. You should turn them in. You shouldn't support these people. And then now they use those images as put the X on them. This one's deceased. This one's deceased. This one's deceased. This one's deceased. I had heard that like some TikToker was making fun of made fun of somebody like a Oh, you probably And then they got, Then they ended up going to find him Years ago.

Years ago, right? Yeah, I know exactly you're talking about it was, it was, it was, it was, And Menchel did it, But it was, um, El, El, um, El,

El, El, El, the Pirita de Culiacan. Uh, the pirate of Kuliacan, he was a younger, he was a teenager,

but he was an alcoholic. And he would, he would do a lot of drunk drinking streams. And he would, He was drinking and he said he basically invited Mancho to, you know, and they went and blew up a whole club about it. Ended them right there in the club. Yeah.

El Pirata de Kuliacan. He was a young kid. He said those. And then there was a couple copycats. And then those copycats was coming with apology videos the next day, you know, and tears like, please, you know. I mean, I'm in the States. I cover the cartel.

I don't cover them nicely. My mission is, I'm looking for the. monster in these motherfuckers. I want to expose the monster. I want to, I want to understand. Yeah, it's cool to love the Scarface movie and this and that. But Scarface had a code in the sense of no kids, no women. At least he had that code. These guys don't have that fucking code, you know. Miss me with the, oh, snitch this, this, that. They're all snitches. Everybody's using it against each other. It's a tool in the bag, just the same way the gun is, just the same way the passport is, just the same way a phone is a tool. Snitching, same thing for them.

And, you know, last night, my niece was like, what are you doing tomorrow? I'm like, oh, I'm going to go over here. She started digging in my channel. She's like, I'm going to flag your channel. We got to get this. They're going to come and get you. She's like, I want to get your channel dead. And I'm like, I'm not worried about it.

I came up in Chicago. My life was on the line every single day. You know what I'm saying? And that's another thing I want to talk about. The internet is just everybody, if you stole a car in 1992, if you sold a nickel bag in 89 in the park, you can be interviewed. on the internet and you can be talked to. I'm not one for reminiscing.

I got a million stories that I could tell. I'd rather tell those stories in movie and TV, you know what I'm saying? But when I look at the internet, I just hear so much bullshit and so many fucking lies and it's just, it's disgusting at this point. And everybody wants to,

they're feeding these kids lies and these kids are going and reenacting these fucking lies. You know what I'm saying? And to me, it's just, it's ridiculous and it's the same as wearing the Chapo shirt, the Pablo Escobar shirt.

There's a rapper named Lefty Gunplay, very popular rapper in Cali, right? And Seleuza Lefti Gunplay, I saw him wearing this outfit, and I said to this Chapo Pablo Escobar said to myself, I'm pretty sure left the gunplay don't want to be associated with these fucking Chomones that he's wearing on his shirt, but he just don't know no better.

And to me, that's sad because, you know, I said this to my niece yesterday, and she said, man, my high school is full of kids wearing Pablo Escobar shirts. Why? You know what I'm saying? Why? So my mission with my channel and what I talk about, which is why I don't give a shit who likes it or don't like it,

my mission is to find the monster and expose the monster to these kids who are getting a glorified version of these fucking monsters. That's basically it. So I have a question. Is it your full-time thing YouTube? Yeah, acting in YouTube, basically, yeah. What have you been in? Chicago PD, Chicago Fire.

I was just in a film called, green and gold. It's just released recently to film with, you remember the show Coach? The dude from Poltergeist. Yeah. He's the main role in that. I was just in that.

What else? And, you know, some indie stuff. Yeah, I got a little real going. I got a little real going. So, yeah, between acting and YouTube and then just whatever else, sometimes I'll ghost write for people. Sometimes I'll, you know, somebody to pay me for a verse. I just, whatever I can.

can get, I get it. I do anything to not work for the man or a man or somebody else that ain't me. You know, that's basically it. You know this guy too? You know these guys too? Yeah. I know Jay. Just from, he contacted you, right? Yeah, Jay one time, he didn't really contact. I mean, contacted me, but it was to get in touch with Pete because he was very impressed with how articulate Pete is and how how structured you know the structure and um you know Pete the way he lays everything down it's very you know just very methodical you know absolutely I covered his um I covered his BMF uh he was the

he was the other side of the table when it came to the BMF conversation because we were convinced all right he's a fucking snitch third party cooperation Pierre came with a bunch of you know stuff and well and Pete here's a problem well the I guess the problem is is Pete Pete is very Pete is very focused on what the record shows and he can read the record

you know like you get these guys who have done legal work for fucking 20 years and they can tell you exactly what's going on with the record what's happening well this is why this happened and this is why this especially since you can look through a record and see one thing but Pete didn't just doesn't just look

through the record he's also typically got the inmate in front of them, right? He's got the defendant in front of them. So when the defendant's saying, well, here's what happened. At this point, Pete's like, that's why that happened. I couldn't quite figure out why. So as he sees these things over and over again, he gets to a point where he can look at the record and sit down and say, okay, so at this point, this is when you decided to cooperate, right?

And the guy's like, he's like, well, what does it say? It says that. No, no, it doesn't say that here. But what happened was initially the government had filed this and this and this and this at this point this and this is when they put in the witness list this is what and he's like at this point you change your plea the only reason you would have changed your plea after getting this recommendation from the judge or this after winning this from the judge is because you realize that so-and-so this one of your co-defendants decided to cooperate and then the guy's like holy shit he's like

paperwork whisper right how do you know that and he's like well because you had won all of you've won these motions there's no reason for you not to go to trial at this point unless the guy that you expected not to cooperate was going to cooperate and you knew he was going to put the final nail in your coffin. And that's when you decided to cooperate. So Pete can read the shit. And so for Pete to go in and he even knows how the government will disguise things. Because some people don't realize this. Sometimes the government will disguise a cooperation as something else. So that you, they know because the defendant knows I can't go to prison at the level I'm going to. And with cooperation paperwork on my jacket or on my docket.

So we need to figure out how to get this. How to mask it? And so Pete can see that. And he can very clearly look at the record. And his whole thing was looking after going through the entire record on the Big Meach thing, he's like, there's just nothing that says this guy cooperating. And this just does, you know, and this also doesn't make sense. and this.

So that's Pete. I tell you one thing, which is funny because there's a guy, Frank Amadeo who worked on my case. I give you a similar situation with Amadeo. I had filed a, I filed two 2255 because even though I cooperated, the government didn't want to give me my cooperation credit.

They just didn't. They tried to fuck me both times. Of course, no. So the second time we put in a 2255, it got to a point, where the judge had to either order an evidentiary hearing and bring me back and let us argue in front of him, which even in that situation, the judge knew in the end I was going to lose. So even if we get the U.S. attorney in front of me and my attorney in front of the judge and we argue,

they said this, they said this, they said, the, in, in the, in the, in the, in the, in, in, in my district, it's already been decided, no matter what, that an defendant cannot compel the government to file a Rule 35. So that decision's been made. And the judge knew even if you win and come back and we explain it, you'll lose. It's been decided. Now, most of the time, if you, if the judge says, okay, I'll be. bring back both parties. We're going to argue. Most of the time the government, the government ends up

giving you something because they don't want to have to get in front of the judge and basically say, yeah, we lied. We told them this. We told them this. They don't want to stand in front of the judge and the judge to look at them and think, you know I'm going to rule in your favor because I have to, but you're a scumbag. And from now on, government, when you, these attorneys and this, when any of you guys come to me on another case, I'm not going to believe you. Right. Because you're using all these lies as leverage. Right. So instead, what the judge did was he immediately filed. He said, he made a ruling.

And he said, I'm ruling in favor of the government. So we're not going to have an evidentiary here. So Mr. Cox, I'm denying your 2255. So that should be it, by the way. Right. He said, but I believe that he said based on, he said, based on the current, you know, the current, oh shit, precedences, I'm ruling on, because of this reason. He goes, I don't have jurisdiction to rule on this.

He said, but the appellate court does. And now there's something that has to happen for you to get to, you can't just appeal your case. You have to get something called a certificate of appellability, which means you have to fight in front of a magistrate judge, even to give you the, the certificate to appeal your case. You also have to pay $500. Typically, when you go to appeal, the magistrate judge says, nah, this isn't worth appealing. It's done. You're done.

It's over. And you have to pay $500. Even if he says, yes, you didn't have to pay $500. Now, I've already explained to the court, I have no money. I'm indigent. I can't pay for an attorney. So I need you to appoint me an attorney. And I don't have $500.

Like, that's basically what I've said. And I don't, you know, I've already, they always think, this guy got no money. So the judge says, one. I don't have jurisdiction, but I believe that the, so this is something that should be, would have to be discussed, decided by the appellate court. He said, and I believe that there's, this is something that should, the appellate court can and should look at. He said, and I'm going to waive the.

I was just going to say that. Can't you just wave the 500? You like chopper. You could just get my brother back. Right. He goes, I'm, the judge goes, I'm going to wave the, the certificate. of appealability and I'm going to waive the $500. And so I saw that and all I saw reading it, all I saw was, I just lost my case, the judge

said he doesn't have jurisdiction and that I could appeal it. I didn't see all that other stuff. When Frank saw it and he read it, he was like, I was like, Frank, this is what I got in the fucking mail. And I'm like, I'm like thinking, I'm done. He gets it. And the look on his face was like, oh, wow. And I was like, what?

He's like, this is amazing. And I was like, spit it out. Amazing. I'm fucked. I'm fucked. I just got fucked. That's amazing. Right, right.

Because you don't understand. This is your district judge telling the government and the appellate court. This guy has a case. He should get something. Right. I can't give it to him. Somebody should. But somebody should.

And I'm fast. tracking it. I believe this so much. He's not going to a magistrate there. He doesn't have to be $500. He's going straight to you. And I think you should give him something. But I can't. Read between all the lines. Right. I didn't see any of that. They didn't say that. But, but, but guys like that. Someone like Frank and Pete would have been like, I've never seen them waive the magistrate, a judge or the certificate of. And I've seen a thousand of these. Exactly. I've never seen them waived the $500 without you going having to go. That's a another procedure trying to plead to them. Can you waive the $500 because I don't have it? I'm indigent. You guys took all my money. You know, so that's a whole, these are, do you realize that's a year

with a fighting? If you won all those fights, it's a year before you can even appeal it. It's another two or three years to. So he saw all that immediately. And the moment I filed my appeal, the government came forward and said, Your Honor, we want to file. We're filing a 22, a rule 35, give him the reduction, immediately bowed. They didn't the whole procedure. hoping that he'll just the judge is got to give him he's gonna fucking he's gonna fuck him he's gonna the judge basically a personal memo from the judge really

exactly exactly yeah so it's like yeah guys like that nail it right like peer can see and read between those lines exactly different thing yeah I can't I'm horrible I would have been like what I'd have been like yeah I'm fucked they just fuck me they just fuck I'm walking around here they fuck me you show it to Pete and he's like what are you talking about you're in the best shape of ever

the judge just told the government they owe you something yeah where do you see that. And then you're Frank's like, absolutely, that's what that says. Like, I told you. And I'm like, and of course, you know, you show it to anybody who's been doing law work that long. They all saw the same thing that I did not see. And that's why I'm saying when Pete looks at something and he reviews it and he comes back says, this is my conclusion. He's almost right all the time. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. No, so I enjoy, I enjoy watching him break things down. I really do. He as like when you said that Jay was explaining, you know, why he wanted to get in contact with

here. He's like that. He's concise. He got his shit unlocked. He just knows his shit. I think they're just selling kids bullshit and selling kids' dreams and the internet is here to perpetuate it. And I just want to be the other side of that shit, you know? Same way where I told you, you know, I'm not in the business of teaching people how to cooperate, how to get in touch with the none of that. I'm just trying to tell you the game's dead. It ain't what it used to be and it's definitely not what you see on TV. You know, that's basically it, you know. And follow the floor is twin story. The shit is strange and in fiction. What I gave you is the tip of the iceberg

TV show happens Again, you can't fuck that up You fuck that up I don't know what you If you fuck that up You were trying to fuck that up You know Because the story is just so crazy

That you know You can't ruin it And And you ask You know if Oh I'm sorry We spoke on You talking to Jay

You talking to Jay Reaching out to you To get up with Pierre And stuff like that I'm the only person on the internet That's had the twins together on my show I'm the only one

Peter don't come out often. He's not one for the limelight or telling the stories. Again, I'm not one. Like I told you, I'm not one for all the reminiscing sometimes. You know what I'm saying? But with Jay, I do a show called Former Kingpin React where we find cards. We just focused on you recently. We find something on the internet.

We find something on the internet. He sent me. We find something on the internet that is cartel-related or may sound like some bullshit. or maybe is a good thing and he reacts to it. And I enjoy it. I kind of stay out of it. I just produce the show.

I stay out of it because who has his experience, who has his perspective? If I can benefit from that perspective and help other people benefit from his perspective, why not? And if there's a liar on the internet that needs to be called it, then there's a liar on the internet that needs to be called out. And it is what it is. I'm good. Shout out to the usual suspects, which is my chat. Salutes the usual suspect.

That's what that. My chat on my live chat on my channel. Oh, what's the channel? ShaiL reacts. Chai-L-R-R-X. Shy-L, Chicago, Illinois. ShaiL. React.

Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. Hit the bells to get notified of videos just like this. We're going to leave Shai's link to his channel in the description box. It's Shy L. reacts. So go in the description box, click on it, go to his channel, subscribe, check out all of his content. Once again, I appreciate you guys watching.

Please consider joining our Patreon. It's $10 a month, and it really does help us produce these videos. Thank you very much. See ya. All right. Really quickly, just repeat. We basically replace drug names. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, for sure. I trust me. Okay. Bud. Bud. H.

H. Blow. Blow. Blow. Powder for the powders. Powder. Sorry. And then a pedophile.

Let's just chow. Ciao. Okay. Chow. Chow.