Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside Hollywood’s Elite: What an Industry Insider Reveals

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Diddy's Arrest has all eyes on Hollywood. Hollywood Insider, Dale Wheatley, shares his first hand experiences with hollywoods elite like Leonardo Dicaprio, Toby Mcguire and More!⁣ ⁣ Get 15% when you use my link https://buy.ver.so/cox , this will auto apply the code "COX" when clicked.⁣ ⁣ Dale's Book⁣ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D4528YJ1?ref=cm_sw_r_mwn_dp_Z1C42TMY1SG1N1ES5883&ref_=cm_sw_r_mwn_dp_Z1C42TMY1SG1N1ES5883&social_share=cm_sw_r_mwn_dp_Z1C42TMY1SG1N1ES5883&starsLeft=1&language=en_US⁣ Watch Don's Plum⁣ https://dalewheatleywrites.com⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ 📧Sign up to my newsletter to learn about Real Estate, Credit, and Growing a Youtube Channel: https://mattcoxcourses.com/news⁣ ⁣ 🏦Raising & Building Credit Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/credit ⁣ 📸Growing a YouTube Channel Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/yt⁣ 🏠Make money with Real Estate Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/re⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Searchlight Pictures presents in the blink of an eye on Hulu on Disney Plus, a sweeping science fiction drama spanning the Stone Age, the present day, and the distant future, about the essence of what it means to be human, regardless of our place in history. The film is directed by Oscar-winning filmmaker Andrew Stanton and stars Rashida Jones, Kate McKinnon, and Dave Diggs. Stream in the blink of an eye, February 27, only on Hulu on Disney Plus. Sign up at Disneyplus.com. We know that Leo was at the white parties. I see Leonard Cabrio and he's on his knees and he's at the side of my bed and she's naked and he's whispering in her ear and everybody is watching her. He's in the corner of my bedroom with a camcorder, recording the whole thing. I met this guy called Jeremy Sistone. He was a very well-known actor today and at the time of Rising Star in Hollywood. And I met him serendipitously and we ended up becoming very fast friends. And he ended up introducing me to Jeff Goldblum. We played these acting games one night.

And Jeff Goldblum remarked that I might have enough talent to make it in Hollywood. And so I took that as a sign to go. How did that come about? Like, what did you do to push your way or wedge yourself into the industry and, you know, move up? In my first week in landing in Hollywood, Jeremy says, let's go to a party. We walk into the house of the first person I see leaning up against the wall, Shannon Doherty. She was the biggest star on television at the time. You know, she was laying up against the wall with this sort of vixenny look on her face.

And I was like, wow, this is crazy. And then I glanced down and there was a circle of people just, dude sitting around one guy with his back against the wall, yaking away, enthusiastic to be at something. And I was like, man, the guy looks really familiar. This looks like that kid Leonhard de Cabrio. But I was like, there's no way it could be here. Ah, come on.

I mean, yeah, clearly the person at this party is connected because there's Shannon Doherty, but Maynard de Cabrio. I mean, he's an Oscar nominated actor. Maybe he's not a big star in the world. But that's not him, I thought, you know. And I just kind of went into the party deeper. of the party and mingling and seeing all these other familiar faces from TV and otherwise. But it turned out to be Leonardo DiCaprio.

And so in my first week, there I am, right? I'm thrust in one of the most incredible, you know, young Hollywood groups, you know, in town. It was led by Leonardo de Cabrero, but filled with, you know, incredible faces and names, including Tobin Maguire, et cetera, et cetera. So when it comes to Hollywood and when it comes to, like, that whole process, there's, like, I have met some of the most magnificent, incredible human beings. I think you can.

me so more good people live in that industry than bad people. It's just that unfortunately, in my experience, it's a corruption of power. That is the case. Then what happens? Because there are so many people that, you know, that like, it's funny, take, take Will Smith. I thought Will Smith was just the coolest guy ever until the Oscars. I could not. Like, I was just like, what just happened?

And I thought, and then it then suddenly it comes out where there's all these people saying, oh, yeah, he's fake. It's always been bullshit. He's an asshole. He's, and it's like, whoa, like, totally fooled. History might be a great example. I mean, I don't know Will Smith, but I can say that like, it appears as though. He's a great example of how like, like power, money and fame can lead to a level of corruption that, you know, that can just corrupt the way your life is functioning. And a part I think it kind of stems from the fact that people who are, like, and all the good people I talk.

talked about. There's this bad sort of thing that, that, that, that, I'll call it a bad thing for the sake of this conversation. But there's this, there's this thing that there's complicity, right? So they are complicit in the empowerment of these people who become corrupt as they grow in their strength and in their fame and their delusion, right? Because that's what I have experienced is that there's a separation between those who are delusional and those who are and the ones who are delusional in Hollywood and who have power create so much damage that is felt by everybody. It's the same thing we see in any kind of circumstance. whether, you know, if there's, if there's just enough bad guys, right?

They can, they can create a lot of health for all the good guys. Yeah. And that's what happens. And that's what happens to Hollywood. And in part is because there's a level of complicity because we want to acquiesce to the power, to the power, because the power will bestow upon us, the fortune. So if I, if I can, if I can smile and say yes, even though it should be an emphatic no, right? I might get, I might even get more. If I turn my eyes from what I'm seeing, maybe I get more favor.

And so there's a complicity amongst the good and the medium good people in Hollywood that enables, right, emboldens these people to rise to this level of delusion and power that ripples down in ways that can create complete disruption and even destroy lives. And that's where I think people feast in the sort of, you know, the gossipy sort of or whatever like the Hollywood. rumor milling right they feast on that but in the like but hollywood like all hollywood needs to do to become a place that we can admire is that the good people need to start slapping the bad people out they need to get them out they need to say you know people like decaprio maguire these people need to be told diddy right they need to be held accountable first of all if they're if they're criming but if they're just being immoral or if they're bullying if they're being bad people they need to be corrected by the good people but instead they're emboldened because they want to work with

because they want to be benefited by the fame and fortune that has bestowed these people through their lives. It's frustrating for sure. We talk a lot about crime on this show, but let's face it, some of the biggest crimes are committed by the government. You've heard the story before. Big Pharma swoops in to take control. Now, the FDA is trying to reclassify NMN a natural compound in foods like broccoli and avocados as a pharmaceutical drug. Why? Because NMN is so effective they want to turn it into a pricey drug, keeping its health benefits,

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projects that you, I mean, eventually you get to Hollywood. You start working. You start meeting people. What are some of the projects that initially involved in? Jeremy Sisto, who was like an angel to me, he introduced me to this dude, Artie Rob, who was friends with Leonardo DiCaprio. And they were making a short film called Last Respects. And there was a role I was perfect for. And so I got to audition for that. And that's kind of how I broke into that group that eventually led to, you know, this entire saga and drama. What happened with the the project? Yeah. So I auditioned for it. I blew it. It was, I mean, it was the worst. I'm the worst auditioner, I think, ever. I'm just so bad. I freeze. I die. Like, I'm a decent talent. You know, I'm not going to tell myself with something extraordinary,

but I'm a decent talent. But let me if I can't audition for anybody. And so we got together. We did this table read for investors and, you know, my mouth dried up. I just died. I just died on Spine Harry's like I was working with Linaugabria to Gabria. Like first thing, like second thing I did and I'm at the table with Leonardo DeCabria in front of all these investors. So I'm working with an Academy Award nominated act. I literally like acted in three things in my entire resistance. So I really felt like I was like imposter syndrome to see me as hard as it possibly could in that moment. And I blew it. But the project like blew it. Like, you know, the project was poorly written by Artie Rob and Artie Glockin at the time.

And so it was just a mess. And I overheard Lina DiCaprio talking to Artie Rob and saying, I can't do this movie, dude. I can't. It's bad. And I just, I want to work with you. You're my buddy and I love you, but I can't make this. It's bad. And so Artie's like shoulders dropped and, you know, just he was consumed by sadness.

And Leo laughed. And I pounced instantly. I was like, I can write. I can fix your problems. I can fix all this. Let me help you. And I didn't say it quite like that, but that was the feeling. You know, I was like, hey, man, I'm a writer.

You need some help. And so he gave Artie Robb said, well, let me read something. And at that time, I had been handwriting a screenplay in my bathroom, oddly enough. And I just found this like real personal space. And I was writing this like really, really experimental kind of stuff. And so I handed him that and he read it. He thought it was really fun. He really loved my dialogue.

He thought I was talented. And so he brought me on as a writer to try and fix the problems. And so I ended up writing that short with Artie Rob for DiCaprio to Star in. And we probably put about eight or nine months of work into that. And when we finally presented it to Leo, he's still passed. He was like, no, it's a no-go for me. I'm not going to do this. And I was devastated by that. But the producer we had on board, who was raising the money for the short, he pitched a project that he had started called the Saturday Night Club. And it was about a group of friends who on Saturday nights meet up at a diner and hang out every Saturday

and they go through their, you know, their night of shenanigans, if you will. And so he had pitched that, he went and pitched that to Leo in Leo's bedroom after Leo rejected this movie that we had written. And Leo liked the idea. And so Leo, then, you know, we all kind of crowded around it and, you know, there was some drama involved, but in the end, I was brought on board to to co-write that with Artie Rob. And that's really when the big opportunity really opened up and my life ultimately changed forever. What, what, I mean, did you guys, like, I don't recognize, was that the ultimate name of it? Because I don't recognize was that ever made.

No, it wasn't. So it becomes, it became the movie that is now known as Don's Plum. Have you heard of that? No. No? Impossible. Don's plum. No, you haven't heard of Don's Plum because Leonardo DiCaprio has been keeping it suppressed for decades.

Okay. Leonardo DiCaprio had that film banished from the United States and Canada. That has been my plight. That has been my fight. And we'll get into that more. But so in a law, and to shorten the story up a little bit to kind of get into more of the juicy stuff is that, you know, we ended up making the movie. We ended up shooting three days in July of 1995 with a cast to die for that included Leonard DiCaprio, Toby McWire, Kevin Connolly.

You know who that is? Yeah. Yeah, Kevin Connolly is from Entourage, right? Is that? Entourage, correct. Yeah. Yeah, I met him. I had dinner with, well, no, no, we had drinks before dinner anyway.

But, yeah, I met him. He tried to get me to sign up for his. He's got kind of like a podcast, like a production company that does podcast. And he's trying to get me to do it. Oh, to bring your podcast over to his brand. Yeah, he was going to send me all the eyes. Listen, I'm fresh out of prison. And I met him in Puerto Rico.

I went to go meet another producer in Puerto Rico. And while I'm there, he shows up. And he, and so here's my story real quick. I give him a quick 20 minute, 30 minute, you know, pitch on my story. Because the producer said, you got to, Kevin, you got to hear this. And so I ramble through, boom, just got out prison only a couple months. You know, I'd flown to Puerto Rico to meet to meet with some entrepreneurs that wanted me to come to lunch and talk with them for. There was like, like eight of them, I think.

And just, you know, they paid me a couple thousand. How did you do all this? How did this happen for you? It's wild. Well, no, I was in the halfway house and I was trying to figure out how to put together a true crime podcast because I was in prison and I'd written all these true crime stories. I saw that in your episode. I saw that stuff. Yeah. Okay. So when I was in halfway house, I called a buddy who, well, a buddy of mine knew a guy and named Danny Jones. And I talked to Danny about like, hey, how does YouTube work? I don't understand. How do you get paid? You know, what kind of cameras? And so after talking to him a few times, he goes, well, you come on my podcast, tell your story, see if anybody's interested. And I was like, yeah, sure. So I went and I talked for two hours. It got over two million views. And in the process, I got reached, people started producers. started reaching out to me and an entrepreneur group.

That's right. I remember this. People that want speaking, you to do like a keynote speaker. Somebody reached out and said, hey, man, next week we're having this thing in Puerto Rico. We'd like to fly you in to have lunch. You know, and they give me a couple thousand to fly in. I think it was like 1800 to fly in. And while I flew in, had lunch with them, they paid me.

That night, I also happened to have a friend that knew a producer that wanted to meet me. And she happened to be in Puerto Rico. So he was like, oh, this is perfect. So I went, I went to San Juan met with her. And when I'm talking to her, Kevin Connolly shows up. And I was like, E! You know? That's got to be a shock, right?

You know, yeah. So, you know, and I'd never really, I've only watched it, had only watched a few entourages. But, you know, I recognize him. He sat down and he was like, oh, she's like, he wants to start a podcast. You know, I want to talk to him about some of his stories. And so we're talking. And as we're talking, he says, man, I own a podcast production company.

Like, you should, you know, I can hook you up. I can send you the equipment. I can this. Like that. And he was all, I was like, you know, but I just didn't get a great feeling from him, you know. And he was very, he was very pushy. You know, I don't know anything. So I'm not going to jump right in.

So instead of kind of treating me with kid gloves, you know, he was just like, you know, bro, you got to do this. You know, he was just pushy, pushy, pushy, you do bad sales. man. Yeah, well, it's funny because I think a lot of people, there's a certain, I think he has a sense of entitlement. I mean, I'm this me, but like that, hey, I'm, I'm, I'm, you don't say no to me. Why would you say no to me? Who the fuck are you going to go with somebody who's not he? Well, listen, he even, there was even a time when he was basically, I was like, yeah, but I'm kind of want to, you know, I want to kind of do a good quality production. He was just talking about doing audio. I was like, no, I want to do, not just audio. I want to do audio and video. You don't even need that. And I was like, you know, you don't even need that. And I was like, yeah, I know, but, but, but. I like that aspect of it because, you know, I like looking at the person. I like that kind of that interaction. You can see that on film. And so I'm trying to explain it.

He's very dismissive. And then he said, and he was like, he's like, bro, he's like, I got a chick right now doing true crime making $40,000 a month. He goes, I mean, honestly, he was, I'm trying to help you out here. He's like, you just got out of prison. And I remember thinking, we're done talking. Like you. Yeah, I was like you.

I was thinking to myself. So what? I'm on the bottom rung. you're throwing me a crumb and I'm supposed to jump on like hey bro I'm perfect I think I even told him dude I hate to say this but I'm sleeping in someone's spare room right now in a halfway I mean in a like a rooming house I was like and I'm happier than I've ever been in my life I'm not nobody to do anything he just I think he just didn't understand that yeah you know so I trust me sleeping in that in that spare room was a huge step up from prison and I'm thrilled sure driving a car that can barely get me to work him back. Thrilled. So we were, you know, and hey, honestly, he may have been doing me a favor. But he didn't come off.

It didn't, he was not, didn't come off well to me. It just, but anyway, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, you're good, man. I was a cool story. And it's, and it's interesting because, like, it's, you know, it's interesting to hear that about him. He's, he, he, he, and I can, I can totally see that. I mean, I knew him very well.

We were, we were, we were, I would consider, I consider us close friends at the time. back in the he might be a great guy yeah he was wonderful I mean I loved him until then he then he became not such a good guy we'll talk about that as we go on but so yeah the film was uh you know

I still his phone number I was gonna say I kind of want to show it but I still his phone number he gave me his phone number really a 310 number it was his mobile number I don't think I've ever texted him Kevin's in the 310 yeah so um yeah so I didn't see you know so the film had all these really big names in it

and what we did was we were so there's a UK filmmaker that inspired the out of us called Mike Lee. You made a movie called Naked. And if you haven't seen him, just watch it. It's just genius. And what was so inspiring about this guy, and it was his approach.

He did everything improvisationally. We loved that. And when David pitched this project to Leo, he only had 10 pages or so of a screenplay. So there was nothing there. And we were all very excited about improv because we had all seen naked and other Mike Lee films. Well, I think there was only one other at the time, actually.

So, but we'd seen both life is sweet and naked together, actually, and we love it. It blew our minds, just creatively. And so it was like a perfect fit when David pitched this opportunity because it was a chance to make the movie improvisationally. And when you do that, when you take that kind of a deep dive, which very few people, if anybody was doing in America at the time, you kind of jumping into a big sort of like, you kind of like, it's an empty-handed, like, leap into the void. You really don't know what's going to come out of this situation because it's improvisation.

So what we did is we wrote this project really creatively. We actually did it on index cards. And then we created each of the characters and all their scenarios and we stacked these index cards in front of them. And we rehearsed for several weeks prior to shooting. And then we assembled three cameras, three super 16 millimeter cameras and a massive crew. and we shot for three days. And it was just a miracle. I mean, it was one of the most magical things ever.

Don's Plum was accepted into Berlin Film Festival. It was accepted into the Sundance Film Festival. It was a film that was anticipated to go out and do, you know, the film kids. It's a key if you don't. It was a very popular film in the early 90s or mid-90s that came out a very, like, visceral movie, very raw. And it did like $30 million in box office. And back then there was a big deal, especially since it had a million dollar budget. Yeah.

Or maybe it was a very small budget. My budget was much smaller. It was like $100,000. But it was, my film was, you know, the belief was that Don's Plum was going to do those kinds of numbers. So we had, so we shot in three days, 75% of a feature film in three days. Okay. I mean, it's the most unheard of thing. I mean, it's practically a miracle.

And when you, when you watch the film, it's engaging, it's a deeply engaging movie. If you see it all the way to the end, most people don't watch it to the end, particularly those who might complain about it in some way. But if you watch the movie to the end, it's artistically wonderful. Like it's an art house film. It's got, you know, loads of, you know, really visceral, you know, sort of experimental filmmaking and storytelling going on in the 90s. It's super raw. It's gritty. It kind of makes you feel icky in the end.

But it's a substantial achievement in its, in its, in its, in its, in its, in its, in its scope, right? It's not Titanic, right? We didn't have $200 million to make our movie. We had a movie with less than $100,000 and what we accomplished was extraordinary. So there was this, there was tension around the film immediately with Leo because Leo was a rising star and he didn't and couldn't afford to have a really bad movie. Right? And that makes sense. And so what we did is we assured Leo that we would never release a bad movie. In fact, we would not release a movie that he didn't approve of. That was our deal. He was cool with that. And so we got to cutting it after this incredibly, like almost spiritual weekend of shooting. And six months later,

we finally raised enough money to cut it. We were broke, so we had to sit and wait for months before we didn't get to the footage. But when we finally did, everything that we had thought happened did. There was just this incredible movie unfolding. We shot for three more days to get some pickups and to shoot, reshoot the opening because everything that we shot for the opening failed. So we had to reshoot all of that, and then we have to get some pickups as well. And then in the summer of 1996, at MGM Studios, we screen the movie for Lee and I DiCaprio and about 100 other people, maybe a little more than that, including all of our friends, cast and crew and some industry insiders like distributors and that sort of thing,

just to get people, giving it people, you know, sample the interest out there, possible. and it was just a massive success. Leo jumping up and down, loving it. Blue his mind. Didn't see it coming. Leo was like, I did not see this coming. And then he sent us to his agents. We screened it for them.

They approved the movie. And not only did they approve the movie is CAA. And not only did they approve the movie, but they signed the director. And they took on the movie as Mani Nunes, who repped producers' projects, took on, took on Don's Plum. and Don's Flom was ready to go to the moon. And at that point, we had, Harvey Weinstein was making,

was making offers, you know, who, you know, obviously this, you know, his months, you know,

his crimes aside, at the time, he was the most prolifically important person in independent film, and he was making an offer. And he was like, I mean, he launched Tarantino.

I mean, obviously he's a scum of the earth. Yeah, but at the time, what he was doing. Say it again, sorry? At the time,

at the time, at the time, that wasn't an issue. he was, you know, he was, you know, active in his, you know, in his crimes at the time. At the time, he was just a big shot offering money. So what, how did, so it hit box off? I'm assuming something went wrong. Something was really wrong, man.

Yeah, Toby McGuire shows up. First of all, so that to set up a little bit, Toby, you start his, Toby, when Toby and I worked together on Don's Plum, Toby was nobody. Right. He was nobody. Absolutely. This is before Spider-Man. Right.

Just so far before. Yeah. It was before Siderhouse Rules. It was before Ice Storm, if you know what that movie is. And that's the movie that really got him going. And what was the horse one? There was the one with the horse. Yeah, see, Biscuit.

That came later, but yeah. Always asked for Spider-Man, right? It was. Yeah. It was him, you know, attempting to, like, gain credibility as, I guess, a talent. But in any case, He was absolutely nobody. By the time that we had finished shooting and started to cut,

he had this short Toby did called the Duke of Groove that got nominated for an Oscar. And all of a sudden, everybody's calling Toby's number, right? And he brought on this big, huge manager. And the next thing you know, Toby's stars starting to rise. And he lands on Lee's ice storm. And Ani was this, like, big up and coming, like, not even up and coming in me. He directed this movie called Eat Drink, Man, Woman, brilliant Chinese film. and he became this like beautiful art house director and one of the most you know sort of sought off

sought after directors for movie stars to work with in Hollywood. Toby lands the ice storm massive deal. His star, Toby's star starts to rise. All the while Don's Blum is coming into its form. You know, we're cutting it together. It's looking amazing. More people, more money coming on board. There's excitement around it and all this while Toby's star is rising. We finally, as I said, created for Leo, right? Toby wasn't available because he was shooting the Ice Storm at the time. So he couldn't actually come and see the movie when everybody else did. He did get a sneak peek at 72 minutes of a film before he went to Ice Storm, something I did for him, or we did for him as a favor because he was not going to be available to see the film with everybody else when we did, you know, the cast and crew screening for Leo. So then Leo, so Leo loves the film. He appreciates the film. Toby returns from, from Ice Storm. And I'm sitting at home with Artie Rob, the director. We're roommates.

We're just hanging out and all of a sudden we get this call. And Toby wants to talk to us. He's like, I've got to talk to you. I've got a problem. I've got a problem. I've got a problem. What the fuck is your problem? Now, at the time, we have offers from Miramax and several other distributors, including the same distributor that distributed kids, the movie they made for a million dollars and did $30 million in the box office and launched careers galore. Right? we're in business. CAA, as a matter of fact, told us that Sundance has a done deal. We're in Sundance.

So we have Sundance, we have Miramax and other distributors. We have a massive Japanese distributor who's ready to throw significant seven-figure deal on the table for the Japanese rights. I'm in business, dude. Like, I'm about to hit big. I went from drinking water for food to getting picked up in limousines because people want to buy my shit. it was an incredible time.

It was a heady time, to be sure. We get a call. Toby wants to come over. He's got a problem. Ding dong. Doorbell rings. There's Toby. There's Toby's got a Ralph's grocery store bag in his hand. He comes in and he gives us a hug and he walks in. He's got to cook us dinner. Okay. And he pulls out a box of macaroni and cheese. He says, let's have dinner. I'm going to make you dinner. Mac and cheese and tofu weaers. Extraordinary.

he says he's got a bone to pick he says he's got problems he's issues with the film and he's there's a tension there's an anger it's like what the fuck's going on just really kind of out of left field there was tension around the film and all that described well inside the book nothing we need to get into here but the tension the tensions in him were far exceeding anything that we'd run into and all that by the way that previous tension that I was talking about was all about the skepticism around whether or not the film was any good and that really just like fell to the wayside once everyone saw it which is something I assured everybody during the tense times I was like just let us finish the movie. And when you see the movie, it'll be what it is. But we think it's powerful. We think it's special. And we hope you feel the same way. And that's how I kind of always sort of, that was my party line, of you will, to everyone throughout, you know,

the process of cutting the film until we premiered it for everybody. Toby screams. Start screaming at us. I want Dawn's plummet up. Burn. His veins just out like cords on his neck, screaming in our faces. What is wrong with you?

Losing his mind. And RD is like, you need to get the fuck out of my house. You got to get the fuck out of here, dude. I'm not doing this shit. I calm everything down because I'm that guy, right? I'm not, I'm a bit of a mark. I am a bit of a mark because I'm that guy who wants to please. I was a heavily abused kid.

And I think that the result of that, and this is all self-south diagnosis. This is professionally diagnosed. But I feel like, you know, my father was physically abusive, very physically abusive. And so I was always like trying to please him, always trying to please him, trying to quell that anger that that that that that that that that that that I knew was going to bring wrath to me and pain to me that um was practically unbearable and so when Toby erupted in a similar way to them to me my dad might it's the exact same thing I was like let me help me I can make this better we can talk this through this doesn't have to become violent right and that's what's going on already Rob's like you I'm going to bed

but not me I'm like I got to stay with Toby and I got to make him feel better it turned into it turned into like a like a 12 hour interrogation by to over the wire I mean I'm I'm literally falling asleep. He's waking me up. I want answers like crazy shit. We moved buildings. We were in my apartment. And then he was like, let's go to Bob Vallard's, this place in which he was living while he was in from town and in between residences. So we go to this guy Bob Valarz house. And at the time, one of the things that Toby attributes to his success is Alcoholics Anonymous. So we're at his house and he's going through this interrogation and it's just horrible. And then he goes through this process of telling me, what's changed his life and why he's so successful now. And it was alcoholic's anonymous. And he goes into this like, like this thing about how I'm an alcoholic. He's like,

you know, you're an alcoholic, you know, and we can help you. He's like, just deconstructing me. He's like, I'm like,

I'm not an alcoholic. He's like pointing out like some of the shitty things I did when I was drunk because I, I did make mistakes, you know, I'm a flawed guy. But alcoholic, I was not asshole.

Yeah, I did some asshole things. But alcohol, no. But he's breaking me down, kind of deconstructing me. He wants to know what the worst thing that happened during Don's Blum was. That was his obsession. I want to know.

This isn't squeaky clean. You guys did something, something. Don't tell me there wasn't something said. There wasn't you guys did something shady. I was like, there's nothing there. And he just kept pursuing this. And this is what he kept waking me up from when I would nod out from being up all night. So I'm going to do a little flashback now, if you don't mind.

Yeah. Previous to all of this, Linaard DiCaprio, we had set up the screen. screening at MGM for Leonardo to and Leo had agreed to come and we had this whole thing arranged that literally involved hundreds of people or a couple hundred people probably right and we get this call from Leo and he's like

dude I'm sorry bro I can't make the screen what two days before what the fuck do you mean you can't make the screening this whole thing is for you I'm sorry bro it's Julia Lewis's birthday and I forgot and I'm flying up Las Vegas Vegas I can't make it but set it up for next week and the week after the following week because I'm still in town.

He was on hiatus from, I don't know what movie. But he was like, I'm still in town for another week. So we'll do it then. It was a disaster for us. It was horrible. It's the worst thing that happened. Well, our executive producer had arranged for a small announcement in variety announcing the film so that distributors would know that it exists so that when he goes and starts calling them,

they would be like, oh, yeah, I saw it in the trades. and that would give us a bit of an edge to try and get good money, right? So he made this announcement in Variety, and it hit before Leonhard DeCabry saw the movie. Before the screening on Friday morning, or Friday noon is when the variety hit the stands. It was on the shelf and the article was in it. And Leo exploded with anger because he had not yet approved the movie. So he went, like we got this vicious, like made me shake voicemail from him. I'm mad, like mad.

I'm not going to the party. I'll be at the screening. It's going to be at the screening. So that's how we got Leo to the screening is we fucked up and put an ad, basically an announcement in the trades. It got him furious. So he put, so he changed his plans and he came to the screening. It was actually a good thing for us because he ended up seeing the movie loving it and everything worked out for us in the long run. And we were able to easily apologize for that mistake, right?

Because it was a small announcement. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was already in the works. Yeah, we fucked up. We shouldn't have done that. apologies, we'll do that again. Thank you. That was the end of it, as far as I was concerned.

And it should have been for, for, there's nothing salacious. You know, there was no like, oh, Lee, it was, you know, just small announcement. These guys made a movie. That's all it says, essentially. Well, so Toby McGuire knows about this and this variety article tension. So in this all night session, Toby's like, what about the variety article? I was like, well, actually, there was one thing with that. I'm tired.

And I've just been browbeated and derogated. And when you read it in the book and you say, see what when you kind of you kind of, the cool thing about the book is that I put you in it. It's not like a book where I'm sitting there telling the story in the way that I'm telling you today. It's actually you're in the seat. You're there.

It's like, it's cool that way. So I'm like, well, there was one thing. Yeah, there was one thing. He was like, well, what was it? I was like, you know, when Leo was all pissed off, he was like, what's the one thing? You had to have heard something. He said, that's what triggered me.

I was like, yeah, I did hear one thing. He's like, what was that? I was like, well, you know, when Leo was freaking out about the variety article, Jerry Meadors, who put the article in and who was the executive producer of our film, he got angry about the way that Leo was behaving about the whole thing because he was freaking out about it. And he was like, and he said something like, well, at least he, well, if he's angry about us making an announcement, at least he knows we have a voice in the press. This is what he said in our little meeting. We brushed it off as stupid, right? Like, RD was like, Jerry, that's ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm sure Leo's shaking in his boots right now. Because it was a stupid thing to say, but it wasn't like, it actually wasn't a stupid thing to say. Let me stand correct. Because Jerry Meadow doesn't say anything stupid in my opinion. He's actually a really, like he's a bona fide, brilliant executive in Hollywood. What he did was he had a reaction. You know, Leonardo Cabri was threatening all the shit about our movie

and being a jerk off over a stupid little article. To him, it was a, you know, this puny thing. And he was like, you know, grow up. At least you know, we have a voice in the press kind of like you in that way, right? So, uh, I said, to Toby, yeah. Jerry said that and I thought it was really stupid. He went nuts.

Toby went, that's it. He said, you fuckers, you're going to pit the prince. against Leo, he blew the whole thing. I'm pitting the press against Leo. We're going to try to ruin Leo's career over Don's plum. He just destroyed everything. Prior to him freaking out all this stuff, I'd agree to go to AA, because he kept coercing me into him. He said, just come to this meeting, do it for me, support me. And so I said, okay, I agreed to go. So he blows up this whole thing, accuses me of admitting to us pitting the press against Leonardo DiCaprio. And when you put this into perspective, you know, I had everything at this point. Like, I was, I was, I was about to,

I was about to be made. Like, it was done. You know, it was all about whether or not we were going to, what we were going to do with it afterward. There was no question about whether it was going to happen. You know, I had succeeded. We had, you know, we had beaten all the odds. So, Toby lost his mind. And he, again, court screaming, you're trying to over my friend. I'm, we're meeting with Leo tonight. They called a meeting. I did not sleep until through the whole day. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of the night or all of the above.

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My art was taken from me. My friends were gone. I was ostracized from the industry in one single night. That evening. So Leo's agents called us between Toby dropping me off and us meeting with Leo later that night at Kevin Connolly's house. And Kevin Connolly recorded the whole night. So between that time, Leo's agent called us. And Leo's Asians was like, this is going to blow over.

You guys are just having a little fucking friend fight. It's going to be fine. I knew different. I knew that Toby that Toby was after something more than I didn't, I didn't realize at the time what was going on. I thought I needed to smooth his. I don't either. I don't understand what he was after either. Like I don't understand why being kind of an independent film disarms you when it was made a few years ago.

And now maybe you're a Spider-Man, but so what? you know, you, everybody starts somewhere and it's an independent film and it's decent. What's the problem? Well, it's a very revealing movie, right? It's highly, it's entirely improvised. There was a scene in the movie that he became very sensitive about when I described it to him before he had actually seen a to be. And the scene is that they're sitting around and it's, uh, and the improv was it's a, it's a improv and the objective was one of the things that I thought we dealt with growing up in the 80s

90s was like shame around things like shame around things right right and I and we pardon me we wanted to address that a little bit and so we did this thing called a improv where people talk about beating off and during this improv toby's character Ian confesses to fingering his butthole when he beats up and it's just like Like Leo's reaction was amazing. Like he was just like, oh, I know. Like he's just, just this big homophobic like, like just, like just, oh, he was just repulsed by it.

And it was like, it was awesome. The whole thing was captured beautifully on these three cameras and it's just this great exchange. And Toby's talking about how with the finger of your ass is way more fun. Okay. And so when I told Toby that it was, actually, it was a really, really great moment in the movie. It was really honest. It was really, uh, it was.

It was brave, you know, like to do in front of girls at a table. And I don't know, man. I loved it. I thought it was a really special moment in the movie, actually. And it cut together beautifully. Leo's, you know, strong reaction to it was really important. And there's just a whole, the whole thing was really on theme. You know what I mean?

It was perfect, actually. And it was also a moment that I thought showed some of the best acting coming out of and Tiber of the movie. When I told them, because he asked me, like, about how the movie was going at one point when we were hanging out. And I told him there was a scene that I would, that I felt was particularly vulnerable and special. He asked me to describe the scene for him.

I did. He was more fun. He was like, fuck. I was like, I don't really do that. I was like, I don't think anyone cares, dude. No, but I'm saying I don't. I was like, okay. You're an actor.

You're, you know what I'm saying? So what? You're playing a part, you know? I don't think anybody, I believe, believe it or not, I don't think that, I don't think Leonardo DiCaprio drowned during Titanic. I feel like I've seen it then. You know what I'm saying? I don't even think the water was that cold.

I know. Yeah, exactly. And I think he could have fit on that door that the chick was on. I think it was, you know. Yeah, like move over, man. I'm assuming, you know, because I'm a fairly sharp guy, that maybe that was just kind of in the script. And it was just kind of, you know, you're playing the character.

And what you were told is kind of do. Even if you had to, even if you adlib did, it, it was like, yeah, but this is where we're going. You're not getting on that raft. You're not getting on that door. So, anyway, so go ahead. So, so this is, is this the one scene that he's upset about or just, or there, in general, he doesn't want to be painted in a bad light. Right.

I don't think, I think it was less about him being painted in a bad light and just the whole, like the film is a whole, the film is raw. Dude, it's raw, right? And it's real. And that was the purpose. Yeah. And so I think, I think the problem was that it made him, it worked, I think he was concerned that it would that it would seem more like it was real and less about him acting.

And so, so that meant then that it was representative of him as a person. And it, and it shouldn't have been, right? Like, because it was an improv and all he wasn't an improv, but it was written. And, you know, we have all the stuff we've written and we have the rehearsals on tapes. And, you know, we know what it was. We all know that it was all fiction. People are genuinely, genuinely, genuinely believe that what they're watching is real. Right. It's genuinely not real. Right. It was all written, all the garbage stories. They're all written.

There's nothing real going on. But it's, but, but, but, you know, we had one of the best casts ever assembled in a independent film. And I'm not, I'm not, I don't think I'm exaggerate. You know, it starts with Leonardo DiCaprio. So let's just go there, right? And then trickle down. I just, we had an extraordinary cast. You know who Jenny Lewis is?

No, but that doesn't mean anything because I don't know who anybody is. That's okay. I'm just, you know, it's worth asking. She is an independent, uh, musician. of great fame from Riloha Kiley. And she's just an absolute fierce talent. And she plays one of the female leads in this. And I mean, her performance is breathtaking in terms of like how wonderful it is,

toe to toe with DiCaprio. Incredible work. You know, we had an incredible cast. We had something really, really, really special. And it comes through. It affects you viscerally. You know, when we were screening this movie, we were testing it before we even screened for Decapparie, we did some tests.

People were coming out of there just shaken by it, you know. Because it's not because it's, it's, It's just because it makes you realize, like, just what we were up against as kids in the 90s, you know, as young, people coming into our moment. So it's just a viscerally real movie. And I think he was very afraid that that was going to rub off. And I go into extreme, like, well, not extreme. I present a theory in the book that I think is a very plausible theory about why Tobin Mawyer lost his mind. Because it is a mystery, just to be sure.

When I talk about true crime, it's a mystery. Why he did this. I just, it happened. But here's what, what, what became very real. At first I was like, it's because he was jealous. At first I was like, because he was, he was always talking about how he was next in line from Leo. Did you know that he and Leo were both up for, do you know what this boy's life is? Yeah.

Did you know they were both up for it? No. Yeah, they were both competing for that part. And Leo beat him. They've been best friends. They were, they were friends before that. And they've been best friends ever since. And I am certain that Toby to this day carries that around.

I mean, my God. If you're second best to DeCaprio, I mean, that's a pretty, I'll take. I think most people would cut their left arm off to be in that spot. Like, what do you? Well, it changed Leo's life in ways that, you know, I mean, Leo worked with Robert De Niro at, you know, at the height of De Niro's, you know, abilities, really, you know, is. and you know it's certainly uh one of the peaks of his career uh to denarums you got to work with alan barkin you know when you're when you're when you're in hollywood and you're you know a teenager and you're trying to break in and you get that that's that's just as big as it gets dude there's

nothing bigger and it doesn't it being second is horrible because being second could mean that you never work because being second means you didn't get the job and that job changed Leonardo DeHabry his life. He thanks, he to this day talks about how it changed his life because it was the first time that people saw this kid really act. But Toby was really there. But Toby went on to do great things. So right. But destroy his life. Well, no, but I think there was a rivalry medium. Right. I can, okay, there's rivalry. But that, so, but that, that, that, that justifies going around crushing, uh, everybody else that you work with or all these people that to put all this fine in energy.

No, not at all, but it does it for me, at least, it establishes that there might be something going on in terms of a competitive nature for this guy, that he might have something fiercely competitive about him, that he, there's something he wants to prove. Like he's, and I say that because of my experience with him, right? He's, he said repeatedly, I'm going to be bigger than Leo. He said repeatedly, I'm going to make more money.

Not am I going to make more money than Leonhard DiCaprio. I'm going to be the highest paid actor in Hollywood. These are things he said repeatedly, and I never believed a word of it. And the reason is because I thought I couldn't imagine that his face would ever become a star ever. Like, you know, his talent is fine. And that's the other thing. I never thought he was that great of an actor. It's an opinion.

Others may, you know, have a different opinion. But I just never thought he was very strong and still don't think that about him. I haven't seen all of his work, but I've seen enough to and worked with them. And I just think he's okay. So that he was saying these things about his future, to me, was almost comical. But his ambition and his ability to pursue things is, I think, probably at the highest level. You know, I think he's exceedingly good at getting what he wants, despite obstacles, even, you know, average face, an irritating voice and a mediocre talent. And with those things, don't hold that.

He built an empire. Yeah, well, it's how I feel. It's definitely my opinion. have that opinion of him when I was his friend. So it just literally, I mean, that that's never not, that first time I met him, I thought he looked like Jojo the dog face boy because he just had the shaggy hair, shaggy hair, he had this tough thing and he just looked awful to me. And I was like, this is Hollywood. Fuck, I might make it around here. You know, it was like one of those if he can I can situations.

So I think that what happened was that Toby saw a, an opportunity to be something, like a all-American kid, the nerdy kid. Actually get into a theory that I believe that Spider-Man was introduced to Toby McGuire in 1995, 1996 at the same time of Don's Plum through Leo because of a James Cameron connection. And that's sort of where the book kind of focuses in terms of like a motivation for Toby to do what he did. But what he did was he took a torch and he lit Don's Plum and he burned it to the ground in one single night. we all met at Kevin Connelly's. It's a night that R.D. and I refer to as the bludgeoning, the verbal bludashing.

It was just pure abuse. And it was recorded by Kevin Connolly, who says later that that recording was stolen. When the litigation happened and we said, produce, well, got stolen. Right. Because people break into houses, risk incarceration, and take microcassettes and run out of the house with it. I guess it's the stupidest thing I've heard in my life. But in any case, throughout that entire night, they just verbally bludgeoned us, told us that they were going to destroy us, kicked us out of the house, broken and and obliterated. And then from that day forward, my life went completely to hell.

And I lost everything. And when I say everything, I mean, I still don't even talk to my family. So, or some of them. So I lost my friends. I lost my money. I lost my future. I lost my dream. I lost my right to pursue my dream because I got blacklisted by Tobin McIreire,

by Leonardo DiCaprio. But then, you know, this all, when the shit hit the fan, it was 1996. The dispute broke out in the late summer 96. And we settled in 99 after Leonardo de Cabra had become the biggest star in the world. So it was prior to Titanic, as you know, and as we established. But it wasn't until Titanic that we were even able to get a lawyer because nobody, we didn't have any money. And the lawyer was going to take our case on a contingency basis because Leo was in star. He was worth a couple million bucks that were like, we're not getting anything out of this fucking guy.

When it became Titanic, we were getting phone calls from the biggest lawyers in town. So what, so, all right, so they shut the whole thing down. DiCaprio has the ability to say, I'm not happy with the film. Is that what happens? Well, what happened was he broke a law. He interfered with our prospective economic advantage, right? And he started calling up distributors and telling them that if they worked with us, they would never work with Leon Arta de Cabaret. And so Miramex went away, Trimark went away, First Luke went away, CAA went away, all of our friends went away, everybody went away.

Literally within seven days of Tobin Mabweir coming in and torching everything, every single opportunity, every single relationship, that industry relationship gone every single thing. We had a three-picture deal from Jersey films, which was Danny DeVito's company. So they called us in after seeing Don's Plumman gave us three picture, $3 million deal. So we went from $100,000 to make our first movie. We had a million-dollar budgets for three movies,

do whatever you want. Be artists. Like the dream come true, my friend. Like everything I've ever wanted. I didn't ever want to be a commercial guy. I never wanted that for me ever in my life unless I was just getting paid as an actor. But as an artist, as a writer, as a director, as a producer, for me, it's all our house or nothing.

It's just where I live. It's where I breathe. It's where I fucking thrive. It's my contribution. It's the thing I can do best. So it's where I want to be. Three picture deal from Jersey Films is as good as life could ever be. And Toby went into that man's office and told them that we fucked over Leonardo DiCaprio and that if they work with us, there'll be consequences.

And so we got dropped by every single opportunity we had. and it didn't stop. It didn't ever stop. Toby McGuire, you know, did horrible things to people publicly who tried to support us or show any kind of support for us. It was just a vicious attack. And here's the interesting thing. As everything was leading up to it, one of the things that made that night with Toby so explosive

was he got me to somehow, I just put it out in the book and it's a little too much to get into here. But he was able to coerce out of me that I had some issues with DeCabweger, because Decapreo was doing weird shit, like really weird shit. And like degrading humiliation shit. Humiliation, like public humiliation within our groups of friends, you know, a group of friends. It was really god awful shit. It was really bothering me. And Toby too was also doing really weird.

Like I'm going to dominate you kind of stuff. And it came up in our one-on-one at Baffle Arts that night. And I voiced my opinion about it. I said, like, man, Leo's tripping me out with this. shit he's doing. I'll share with you one of the stories. I don't want to reveal them all because the book is, oh, I mean, it's too much to cover, frankly. Right. Okay. And I wouldn't mind selling a couple books if I could. Right. Um, um, but yeah, they were doing really weird shit. And I brought it up. And at some point in that, in our meeting, like, uh, or in our 101 meet Toby's,

Toby says, uh, man, I still think you hate the cabaret. I was like, no, man, I just don't, I don't understand what's going on. Like there was, you know, and so if, anyway, if you want me to get into that moment, I can't. Yeah. Yeah. What is the, what is the, what is the thing you said, you'll share one of the. Yes. The thing I'll share is the kind of thing I'm, I'm sort of comfortable coming out with in public. And, you know, the first time I came out with this story, by the way, obviously, I, the book, I spent four years writing the book. So, you know, but it just happened. I literally did this other YouTube channel to kind of announce the book, just days. I've recorded it just days before Diddy was arrested. So, and this, and this, and this was. And this was. the topic on that on that podcast and the guy was like holy shit i can't believe the connection particularly with leo and did he apparently at least being friends so it's christmas day i'm sad it's my second christmas in a row that i didn't make it home christmas was like you know i

had a rough life i love my father he was a abusive guy real abusive guy but i don't know what it is about loving people who hurt you loving bigots i don't know but i love him it was my dad you know right and I love my mom and I love my brother and I and I and I wasn't home for Christmas for the second time uh time only the second time in my life and the second time in a row because if I leave the country I might not get back in so I couldn't go home and it was very sad so I had a sad day called my mom and that was sad I was just kind of lugging around then suddenly friends started to accumulate and we started having a good time we went to jerry's deli we partied there and we got back to the condo where I was living with artie rub and there's a crowd of people.

people, six, seven, eight people, I don't know, whatever it was. We were a small crowd, sort of Christmas orphans, Leigh and I had a cabarettecabreel among them. And also among them was a television star who I have named Emily Foster. I've redacted her name for reasons forthcoming. So anyway, we're all party, whatever, having a good time. I'm downstairs smoking a cigarette. And I can't remember who it was, but one of the guys came down there like,

dude, you've got to see this. Something's happening in your room with Leo. I'm like, what the fuck you're talking about? He's like, he's like, Emily Foster's getting off in your room. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, now you got to see this shit. So he drags me.

I go walking up the stairs. And there's like a crowd of people outside of my bedroom. There's a landing that separates two bedrooms. Here's a doorway to mine. Here's a door he already robs room. And then there's this landing. And on that landing are about, I don't know, group of people, whatever, five, six, seven people.

And they're gawking inside. And so I look around and I see Linar de Cabrio and he's on his knees. And he's at the side of my bed. And Emily Foster is laid out on my bed. my bed and she's naked and he's whispering in her ear and everybody is watching her. Let me tell you something. Emily Foster was not an exhibitionist. Emily Foster was infatuated with Leo.

She was also one of the biggest TV stars in the world at that time. Household name. If I dropped her name right now, I think everybody would know who she is. And I think sadly people would probably change their opinion of her in some way or that it would affect in some way or their opinion. of her. And that's disturbing to me because the focus is really on Leo in the situation. Because he used, he had no interest in her. We had discussions about it because I thought it was shitty from him, right? Previous to this. You know? And so did others. I witnessed these

conversations where we're like, Leo, dude, you're leading her on. He's like, no, we're not. We're just friends. And I'm like, bro, you're playing. This is bullshit. And then it culminates really on this night, Christmas night, where he literally coerced this woman into this humiliating act in front of everybody. It changed everybody's opinion over, obviously. And to boot in the corner, Scientologist Ethan Soply, in the corner of my bedroom, would have camcorder recording a whole damn thing. So he's got this television star whose life and like, I don't know if you remember the climate in the 90s, but in the 90s, dude, like, people talk about cancel culture today. people get away with everything today compared to back then.

If you got outed for something, it was the only news they got. There was no internet. Things didn't spread like wildfire. They were controlled by the press. And if the press decided to take you and your story, you're done. And if a tape came out back then, you mean, you remember these separate tapes? I mean, literally like changed lives. So he was putting at risk of this person's entire career, her entire fortune that she had spent, you know,

in a lot of her time and created self. to achieve. And all of that now is in jeopardy because Ethan Sopley has this compliment on this tape. Now, you know, it's just interesting that he recorded in the first place. And what's even more interesting than that is

this, eventually this dispute leads to a litigation, right? We end up in this big giant lawsuit and we do these depositions. And during the deposition, we asked for discovery, right? You know, you're familiar with that term? Yeah. Right? So discovery is when we go and we find out what they have,

what evidence they have. have that can either prove or prove our story. And they're supposed to, by subpoena, provide that for us during the lawsuit. So we subpoenaed that tape. Now, the reason we subpoenaed that tape wasn't because we wanted the Emily Foster footage. It was because we know or we believe that we spoke about Don's Plum and the Leonardo DiCaprio tried to assert legally that we were keeping secrets about it. We weren't ever. We never did.

You keep a feature film secret. Ridiculous thing I've heard in my life from the people who are in it. which is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. But we thought that Ethan, who was recording throughout the night, that there would be proof on that tape. Right. That we would be talking about Don's plum, that Leo would have talked about Don's plum.

But the tape also contained this footage of Emily Foster. And so Ethan lost it in the deposition, and he threatened to burn the evidence. Now, to be fair, full disclosure, he thinks it's photographs. I'm absolutely certain it wasn't for two reasons. The first and foremost is that Leonhard de Gabriot would have never let Ethan Soply take photographs on film of that night.

No way. He would have never let Ethan Soply take that role of film, right? There were no digital cameras in 1995. He would have taken that role of film to CVS, right, to the photo net, right? He was not going to let his career whispering, again, into a famous woman's ears while she's clearly for the camera. He's not going to let that go to phone. There's just no way.

So I know it's video because it would be controlled under that under these situations. And the other thing is I saw it. I feel confident that my memory is correct. And it was video today. So it was a disturbing night. And what was even more disturbing is that when he was threatening to throw that evidence away years later during the deposition, it occurred to me. Holy shit, you still have it. Right.

You still have it. Why would you still have that? Like, it's, they're best friends. Like, if I had compromise on you and you're my best friend, first of all, I would imagine you're going to ask me to get rid of it, probably. Right. But if you don't, I wouldn't I? You know?

Anyway, maybe he forgot that he had, you know, the biggest story on the movie, a movie star in the world on it, possibly. So that's the story that leads to, like, that story. And that was the particular one that was most disturbing to me when I was talking to that night, right? I was like, why did he do that? What was that about? It wasn't to get off himself.

It wasn't to get me off, right? Why would he do that? And I think it was because he wanted to humiliate her for some reason. And I think that reason is misogyny. That's my personal opinion. I just think he's a misogynist. And so, you know, when the Diddy thing broke. Right.

And everyone's talking about like this idea that Leo might be exposed to Diddy's humiliations and all those other stuff. And I'm like, hmm, I don't know about that, dude. because Leo's been rolling with this shit since before did he. So I, you know, maybe it's the other way around. I don't know. Could have been Leo gone in, dude. Well, I mean, who knows what compromising tapes they have on him.

Yeah, I mean, I imagine that somebody knows, but we don't. You know, and, you know, we know that Leo was at the white parties. So just when people are putting that connection together, my mind, I'm thinking, well, I'll say this about it, right? Like, maybe he had nothing to do with it, but it would have been, it would be, It'd be very easy to believe for me that he would have participated as a viewer in a minute. He was an exhibitionist and he was also somebody who literally would put somebody through humiliation for his own, for his own, you know, amusement. So at what point did you guys, did you get to a point where you sued?

Well, you know, we wanted to, well, I wouldn't say we, but David Stelman, who was the producer who owned the copyright at the time, he wanted to sue right away, but no lawyer would take our case and we had no money. So it wasn't until after Titanic hit. And all the lawyers that he visited and tried to convince the tick on the case, those lawyers started calling him now. And then we ended up landing Bert Fields, who was at the time, the biggest and most feared litigator in all of Hollywood,

representing guys like Michael Jackson. He thought, Burke Fields said he was going to be the big power house that he was. He was going to flex his muscles. Leo was going to go, oh, my God, I can't do this. And then we were going to end up in a settlement that would, you know, behoove us all or benefit of us all. And that didn't happen.

Leo dug in instead. And that was a bit of a shock for Perth Fields. Leo dug in instead. He did not settle. Not right away. It took years. Right. Yeah, I know.

You know, it's so funny. Like, I filed suit. I filed suit against an actor, right? Against who? Did you sue an actor? No, I sued Warner. brothers and shoot. Ephraim Devoroli, which is a guy I wrote a, I wrote his memoir.

Ephraim Deverelli is played by Jonah Hill in the movie Wardogues. Oh, okay. So I sued over basically over the movie, and I sued incarcerated entertainment, which is the production company that Deverelli had started. So I sued them. And it's so funny to me because. You know, the amount of money that they spent on litigating is 10 times what I would have settled for. It's like I was incarcerated when I started.

Had they come to me and said, listen, we'll give you whatever, you know, $20,000, $30,000 right now to go away. I would have been thrilled. Yeah. But instead, everybody dug in. It's like you're going to spend half a million dollars fighting over what could have gone away for a few thousand. thousand dollars you know just just stupidity so any you know these these people that are like oh it's a they'll it's a nuisance lawsuit you know these you know Hollywood will settle because they don't want to spend the legal fees well you're wrong about that they'll blow half a million dollars

before they'll pay you a penny they don't fucking care money it's ridiculous yeah leo spent a million on our lawsuit he dug in for a mill and we had we got we went through two lawyers, because our lawyer, Bert feels the big powerful guy when Leo didn't bend, he kicked us to the curb, like, I'm jerk off. And so we had, we lost the biggest lawyer in the world and we were like empty pockets and no, and the lawyer in the middle of, in the middle of a lawsuit with the biggest star in the world. So we ended up landing another attorney that eventually led to a settlement conference and where a settlement, so-called settlement took place. But it was all under duress and they don't care about money. And in the end, you know, we ended.

up putting the bill. The movie ended up putting the bill anywhere. Because, you know, part of the settlement was that we were going to pay all the legal fees. So we ended up, you know, it's a long, terrible story about how the, the, they never stopped destroying this movie, dude. They never stopped. And it was all out of spite. It was all to destroy me and R.D. Robb. It became this like spite, this evil, horrible spite. And it worked, bro. My life has been shit for a long time, dude. Like, you know, it was very difficult for me. In fact, it wasn't until I wrote this book that I realized I could do anything else and love it. You know, like, I wrote this book and I was like, oh, shit, I love this.

I'd never written a book before. I'd written short stories, poems, lyrics and screenplays, but never a book. And it just opened up a world of creativity that I'd never experienced before. So prior to the book, film was all I ever wanted. Film was all I ever knew, experimental film especially, which is the hardest film to make. because there's no real promise of box office at the end of it. So you've got to kind of be beloved. And to be beloved, you've got to have a really special movie come out.

That was Don's Plum. John's Plum was going to open up that for me, for sure, because it was not just an awesome experiment that went right, but it was also the fact that the process that we began was a process that would have been, that was exciting for so many filmmakers experimentally. like it really was something special, like that we could grow with. It was accidental. Do you know who Jackson Pollock is?

Yes, for it. Very famous painter. And you know that whole like he spilled the paint. Yeah. We spilled the paint. That's what happened. You know, we spilled the paint. And we were like, holy fuck, this works.

We can do something with this. And so the masterpiece was supposed to come later, right? This was just our beginning. But it was a special beginning that had, you know, you know, really special performances. and, you know, like I said, just an experiment that just went totally right. So, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's, it's, it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, for, for decades and that it became so personal and so horrible, you know, I did this New York post documentary. The reason I wrote the book is because I did a, uh, uh, your post documentary.

And at the end of it, Leo, uh, through his publicist, made a statement. And then the statement called me a liar. He said that I was using this story to gain publicity and to unlawfully earn money from Don's Plum, the movie I wrote and produced. And my God, dude, I got so mad. Like, I was just like, holy fuck. And I didn't know. How does a little me who screens through Riftops and barely gets heard battle a guy like that who now just disparaged me in a way that's irreparably harmful? I mean, people who listen to him and believe him, right?

I got emails right away. why do you respond to the fact that you're a liar and that you're stealing from Don's Plum? So I was like, well, fuck, I've got to answer this, man. And it took me a year to figure it out. My inclination was to write a book. I didn't have the courage, man. And then the pandemic hit. And I was like, man, I just got to suck it up and I got to do it.

And so this book, and I'll hold it up just because I think it's kind of neat because it's, he said, Dale's a liar. And I said, that's my response. Do you, what's the, what's the, on the cover? What's the cover? Oh, the cover is me wearing my mirror max hat. They were going to buy my damn movie. But it's just a picture for me in the 90s, chilling out, about to be somebody people new in the industry, just about to make it, man.

It's a beautiful time, bro. Like, I did it. Like, I don't know, you know, for anyone out there who's, and I'm going to tell you, man, I don't regret that if I were to go back, I wouldn't, I wouldn't not make the answer. Do you know what I mean? I would obviously hope that it would turn out differently in terms of the way that a dispute went down. But now I don't regret any of the pursuit. But anyway, after Leo called me a liar on that New York Post documentary, and by the way,

like this whole thing got reignited in 2014, I had laid completely quiet about everything. I just shut up and I wanted it to go away, right? And so I did my time. I did my time, right? I went and did the sales jobs and I lived a mundane life and I let my dreams stay in the, in the, in the shableness. And I waited for the dust to settle. And I knew that it would take a long time. And I did 10, 13, 14 years of silence on it, right?

I did nothing. And then I went back to Hollywood. I left my wife because that shit just ended. And I, at that point, I was like, it's time to go back. And I went back at four years old, 2010 for, you know, for a second round, if you will. And I reunited with Artie Robb. And I had been working on this thing for years, the story that I love so much fiction Newland. And I met this girl who's my wife now and who saved my life. I met her and she found out

of all this and she was like, I want to read your stuff. And so I showed her the story and she fell in love with it. It's kind of a weird psychological, almost supernatural love story, but it's like, it's cool. It's like this really highly, it'd be controversial if I ever get it made, but it'll be very spiritually interesting. And anyway, she just loved it. And she was like, I know this producer. And he was like a giant in the business, like huge. Like bigger than Leo, in my opinion. Like bigger than Leo. She's like, I know.

Let me just see what he thinks. And I was like, okay, fuck yeah. I think quite like that is the book will feel, but more or less some in substance. And so he loved it. He loved it. He was like, this is a great idea. And this guy who's now this multi-billion dollar producer, he got his roots doing the very same thing I did, which was just, you know, slugging it out with 100,000

bucks, 200,000 bucks, try to make something beautiful happen. So he loved this. And this movie would take a mill, mill and a half. like not a lot of money to make. He was in. And then he found out who I was, 2014 at this point, 2014,

almost 24 years after I made that movie, he was like, who's that? Oh, he made that. I can't work with him. And he canceled me there on the spot. 44 years old, man.

You know, I shot Don's bummer. I was 25. You know? And then I was like, fuck, I got to do something. Because at that point,

that this is the first time, where I had a concrete thought, maybe it's time to check out. It's time to get out of this thing. Yeah. It's just a life gone back, you know? Just a bruise that's spread into a rotten core, you know? You mean Hollywood or you mean life? Life, buddy, life.

Yeah. I already checked out of Hollywood. I moved to Jersey. Yeah. I got away. I was out of sight, out of mind. Came back and you said, you left, you came back. And the second time you came back, you said, yeah, that's it.

I mean, these guys are. after this after that after that producer was like because of 1995 right and don's plum i was just like man and i got this beautiful girl but man like and it was like such a serious moment like it wasn't like a fuck my life ah he was like uh i got to go i got to go so like you know fighting through that was really difficult for me like i was like oh fuck um but it just wanted out so bad and then i uh so i turned to to my girl and was like man i got to fight back where i got to go like i didn't say it to but I think she might have felt it. Like, I was just like, I got to fight back.

I got to do something. I can't just let this continue. I can't let this reputation follow me around that isn't just. And I can't allow these people to take so much of me and to take so much of what I've done and everything. I'm proud of my work, you know. I don't care. I don't care.

You know, I didn't make it for you. I want you to love it, but I don't care. I love it. And that matters. So I said I got to do something. And I was like, I think I'm going to write an open letter. Cabrero was 2014. And she was like, at first she was like,

wow, it's a big deal. It's like, yeah. She's like, it could end up consuming us. And I'm like, yeah. But I got to do something, man. And because I just, my life is slipping away from me. And she did it, man.

She was like, okay. So I wrote the letter in 2014 and it blew up in 2016 after the Revenant. No, nobody paid any attention to do. It was the most embarrassing thing ever. I was like, in my head, right? I got the biggest star in the world. I'm going to write this open letter.

Everyone's going to care. Fuck, nobody cared, buddy. Like, it's like, oh my God. I wrote the open letter in 2014, and it was then that I made the commitment that I was going to fight Leonhard de Cabrero. Hell, bro. That guy's got in my piss and punch, you know.

But I was like, man, I'm just going to fight this guy from where I am, and I've been doing it for 10 years. And the book is really like the sort of the pinnacle of it all. I think it's really probably my will be my most sympathetic statement about it. And I'm really proud of the book and I'm proud of

standing up against such a fucking shitty human being. And just to the fans of Leonardo DiCaprio, I loved his work. I did. And I believe in a separation between the art and the man. You know, the art and the artist. I have Eric Clapton records on my shelf

and I think very little of that man. I have Van Worson records on my shelf. That guy's fucking coochier than anybody I've ever known. Do I put those records on my placard? Right, I do because I love the music, man. So, you know, this isn't about, I don't want Leonardo DiCaprio canceled. And I don't want any of his movies not to be seen.

I want my movie to be seen. And I want all the people that worked on those movies to be rewarded because that's a lot about what I'm talking about, Matt. It's like, these guys didn't just take my movie away. I'm here today representing it as my movie. 150 people work on that movie. You know, Leona DiCaprio was one of eight ensemble cast members, seven of which,

before Toby hit, could have used the work. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. He was the only one who was doing well. Everybody, and he was there as a favor to us all, which is, I guess,

bitter irony of it. That's my story, buddy. I'm sticking to it. Well, how do you feel about this interview? Is there anything else you want to talk about or anything else you want to add? Yeah, I mean, here's what the only thing I would like to, I'd like to definitely let your, your viewers know is that they can watch them movie and read the book for free. It's a fascinating story. And it's told in artful and entertaining way. I, you know, this, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, there's, there's, there's a lot more inside of, of me to come. And, and I'm putting. So I put my heart and soul on this book. And you can get it, you can get it, you can get it for free on, on, on, on, on, on. Kimmel Unlimited right now.

You can also buy the paperback there or the ebook, if that's your preference. But you can read it for nothing. And you can also watch the film for free at Freedonespalm.com. I do send out HD links. I send them out because they've, Leo and Toby, have taken down the HD copies of the film. They let the really bad copies go, but they don't. They stop the good copies. So I only set up private links for now.

But no, I don't really have much else to say except thanks so much, man. I hope the story was entertaining for you guys. and yeah, I hope people, you know, learn a little bit from it. So how do people get the links? Yeah, you email or just go to Freedonsplom.com, just put in your email address. You'll get an automatic kickback for the link. If you want to reach out to me personally, you can just hit, yeah, there's an email address there. If you want to chat with me, you're welcome to do that.

But yeah, that's it. That's how you get that link. And then you can go to Amazon to get the book. or really, I think any online retailer probably is carrying it in paperback. But for ebook or for Kittle Unlimited, that's exclusively on Amazon. Just look up. Too real. Hey, you guys.

I appreciate you watching. Do be favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell. So you get notified of videos like this. Share the video. Leave me a comment. And if you check in the description box, I'm going to leave all of Dale's links.

Please consider joining Colby and I's Patreon. It's $10 a month. We put Patreon exclusive stuff on the Patreon platform without any censorship or anything like that. And there's also a lot of exclusive stuff that's behind the scenes, stuff that we talk about prior to doing the interviews. So I really appreciate you guys watching. Check in the description box for those links. Thank you very much. See you.