Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside London’s Criminal Underworld (What Americans Don’t Know)

Episode Date: January 25, 2026

Tommy recounts his descent into London's criminal underworld, revealing the gritty realities that most Americans never hear about.⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://www.insidetruecrimepodcast.com/apply-to-be-a-guest⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ Check out my Dark Docs YouTube channel here -⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@DarkDocsMatthewCox⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So no matter what day of the week, Go's got you covered. Find out more at goadransit.com slash tickets. I was born in Guilford, which is a city, probably 45 minutes south of London. I came from a good household. Like there was, you know, no abuse. My parents, my mum and stepdad didn't smoke, drink, do drugs. It was in a, I was in a good house.

So I don't really know how it all went so wrong, really. Yeah, so I was living in my town with my mum and my stepdad, my group of friends, we'd all finished school. and we were, you know, just getting high every day, wanting to smoke green. Being that we were in quite a little rural town, there was not really that land, that city access to finding, you know, getting any green for us. So that's where I took it upon myself to actually save up everything I had

to go and buy my first Zed of green. And I thought, you know what? I'll sell it to my friends and, you know, if I make a little bit for myself, cool. If I make a little bit of money, also cool. But, you know, I was 16 years old. I wasn't going to make hundreds of thousands of pounds doing it. And very quickly, I then realized that there was a massive market for it. None of my friends had it. My friend's friends and people older than me didn't have it. So it became actually a very profitable little enterprise, actually. Then there was a a drug that came on,

I don't know what you guys call it. I don't know if it ever really, it was originally sold as a legal high called, I think the street games was Meow Meow Meow for it. But there was, it's like an amphetamine, like, yeah, I don't know what it was. But spice or something where they would sell it, like in the drug stores they were,

for a while they were selling stuff. End up being, is it K2? So you in the jail, you guys over there in jail, because I watch all your 60 days in and stuff, you have something in the prisons called K2 or clone. Yeah. And I think that it's some kind of a derivative of what initially was started as kind of like they called them like bath salts. Yeah, because you could get high and smoke it. But then the year or so, they made it illegal. Yeah, yeah.

And then the guys would change, they would change the chemical combination of high. And then eventually they fucking, you know, the government got on to that. Said no, any derivative of blah, blah, blah. And then eventually it became completely illegal. That's right. That's 100% right. So the Meow Meow one that we have was actually like a crystalline powder that people were snorting.

But we'll get onto that spice thing later, actually, because that takes us to the jail and the K2 and the clone. But yes, it was illegal high. And then it kept being changed around. It was first, I think you bought it online. It was originally sold as well. plant fertilizer. But I think that was just the label they put on it to get it into the country. I don't know. But that was a really horrible thing. You know, people were visibly on it.

Like, it was not good for you. Like, you know when someone's clearly on drugs for a long time, your sweat, stinks, and like, it's just not a nice thing. But I sold a lot of that too. And actually started to make a good amount of money in my town. How old were you at the point? I would have been 16, 17, approaching 18. And then it all came to an end when my stepdad, who's Canadian, we emigrated to Canada, very, very briefly. Well, they're still out there, to be fair, but I went out there, got my citizenship, and, I mean, no need to touch much on that. I wasn't there for that long.

The point being is I then came back here for a holiday to see my dad. dad. And I ended up staying for good because I met my fiance. So I never actually left it, but back to the, went back to Canada. But I got a little job in a bar and I wasn't owning that much money. I was living in one of my dad's spare rooms. I was living with my dad at this point, who's, you know, a bit of a criminal as it is, has some shady friends. And I'm living in spare bedroom. We're doing, we're doing coke together with my dad. Don't I mean? That's not not a good thing. right and i'm working in a bar and i'm thinking oh how how can i make some more money you know want to be a bit more independent and you know i was doing white on the weekends with my friends

from the pub friends here and i was getting really good white through my old man because he had some old you know 1980s 90s connection old boy friends that he had for who been doing it forever under the radar really good stuff so I went and got a little chunk of that, dished it out to my friends, dished it out to people. And I was, I think the first window

where you're likely to be caught is where you're trying to expand the business and just trying to get your name out. You know, don't call them, call me. And very quickly, I left the pub job and was just full-time selling coat, selling white. Right.

And I made ridiculous amounts of money doing that. It started from just selling little bits tickets, you know, half G's, G's, to the point where we were selling, you know, half Zs and Zs to sellers on the street. And I got a, I got a girlfriend and she worked in the pub with me, to begin with. She was, honestly, hands down, one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen in my life. She was stunning. Anyway, so I got with her. There's a good story to go with her later. I got a really nice flat in Guilford and I don't know if you know about our real estate here

property is expensive here really really expensive so I got a really nice top floor flat in Guilford GU1 one of the most sought after post codes in the country and we had money coming in I had a couple of employees working for me and money was just great

it was I couldn't I couldn't complain I was partying every weekend. Well, I say every weekend. It was more like every day. And it did get on top of me a little bit. And I think drugs and relationships aren't usually a good combination. So I did that. And I was with her for four years.

And then me and her started, I wasn't the best. I'll be completely. You know, I had my holes up to her. She never did anything wrong to me. You know, all she was ever guilty of is wanting to love me. and I just chose the party lifestyle, the money, going out with friends and, you know, she'd be at home waiting for me for days on an end and I would just rock up. God knows where I've been or who I've been with. And in the end, it got too much for her and she did leave.

Now this is where I'm even worse of a person. Like, gosh, it's such shit to say. But one thing that, I can say this, one thing that she had four, three sisters, she was one of four. and because I was with her for so long, I knew her family and I went to family events and stuff. And I then ended up getting with her older sister, who I then got engaged to. So that family absolutely hate me, which is understandable. I get it. But so Maria, her name was. And I ended up being with her for a decade. For 10 years I was with this girl, nearly, just under.

one the second one the sister yeah so this is four this is four years and ten you're 14 years running through this family yeah yeah and i remember i was family functions like you're going to christmas and you're there and you're like hey what's up jennifer yeah it was because i i always she had a boyfriend too and they're like there was a little bit of a well i'll be honest there was a bit of a crossover it wasn't one out, one in. There was a bit of... Yeah, yeah, I mean, a little overlapping sometimes that happens. Yeah, which I guess she's bad for doing that too, you know, you're doing it to your sister. You probably shouldn't do that. But it happened. And her parents kicked her out, lost their shit with her.

You know, how can you do that to your sister? You shouldn't be with him. That's, you know, he's terrible. And they knew what I did as well, or to a degree, I think. And they kicked her out. So I said, well, look, you can come, you can live with me. You know, I got a spare room kind of thing. you know, you can live here and, you know, wait until everything kind of, you know, blows over. And very quickly, you know, the spare room ends up coming my room and, you know, she's no longer in the spare room. So, and that only ended, you know, recently.

And things are kind of rekindling now. It's, we'll get to that. But yeah, so my first little problem that I ever had was one of my employees and friends and friend, he was working for me and moving things around. He was staying with me for a couple days while something happened at his house and he was just going to come stay with me for a bit. So I said, that's cool, no worries. And he came back really late from doing his bits, came back, and he'd forgotten to lock the front door. And about four in the morning, he comes into my room and he's like, Tommy, there's someone in the house. And I went,

no, there's not. There's no way. And then he went, yeah, yeah, there really is. And, and went to go and like press on his his bedroom door they'd gone into his bedroom and the door just closed back on my hand and i was like oh shit there there is someone in here and we looked at the front door and it was just two two crackheads right junkies and they didn't know who i was they didn't know who anyone's they were just trying doors trying to get lucky and at the bottom of the the flat block the apartment block there was some like works being done so painting works and there was some two big tubs of paint they tripped they were out of their face they were so so high they tripped over this paint they were covered in it and they'd walked in through my front door and left perfect white footprints of

paint just going into this bedroom look like something that's scooby-doo like following the clues and yeah we we were like what the fuck you know you need to get out of here and they started like trying to fight me and dan i mean there was just a junkie and his misses i mean it's not hard to overpower it all crackhead and his disgusting wife And like, oh yeah, we kicked the shit out of these guys and then threw them down the flat block stairs. Anyway, allegedly they said to us, to the police in the end, that we'd hit him over the head with a firearm. But I'm not going to confirm or deny that because I beat all those cases. Anyway, I saw an ambulance pull up. He got put in an ambulance and we just closed the door and thought nothing of it.

I mean, broke into my house, you know, got beaten up. That's what happens. In Florida, you can shoot a man if he breaks into your house. I'm sure he would have ever left. Right? So I'm thinking, that's not, that's minor. And then about, oh God, nine in the morning next morning, police came through the door, arrested me. It was firearms police because they'd said I'd hit him over the head with a firearm, and allegedly. And so the firearms police came.

I know people always think that the cops in England don't have guns. I mean, 50% do, 50% don't. The normal Bobby's walking on the street. You're not really going to see them carry. a gun, but every cop and a police car pretty much has a gun these days. So I guess our security risk is a little bit higher nowadays. But yeah, so arm response came through the door, arrested me for GBAH, which is a crime here called GBAH, a grievous bodily harm, because the kid was hospitalized. Possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear. Possession of a firearm within tend to cause harm. So I went to the custody suite and works a bit differently,

a prison and police system, right? So if you go to the police station and they have cells there. So I know you guys, if you're going to stay the night, you go to a jail, right? Yeah, but they have cells. If you go to the like the sheriff station or police state, they have holding cells. But if you're going to stay the night, then yeah, they're going to probably put you in the jail. Right. Okay. Yeah. So I was there for two days in the police cells. So we don't have that interim. We don't have a jail and then you go to prison after jail. You know, there's no interim.

It's police cells and then to prison. Now, I will touch on that. There is a slight middle that there is, and I'll get to that because it also happened to me. I went to the police cells and the, I thought, I'm going to completely, you know, this is easy. You know, they didn't find any firearms. They didn't do this. You know, he broke into my house. I said he pulled a knife, you know, to make it even sound even more like we were defending ourselves.

He did pull something out of his pocket, either way. So I'm waiting to be interviewed, do a no-comment interview, and then I'm waiting for, I'm listening for the keys to come down. It's been like a day and a half, two days, because it was a Saturday, and then nothing happens on a Sunday, and then you can't go before a magistrate, a judge until Monday morning. So I was there, and the police cells are the worst, because there's just nothing. It's just a blue, like, you know, the crash mats you get in school?

That's it. Just the blue one of those to sleep on. That's it. No, no nothing. No pillow, nothing. No, no, no. Sometimes they'll give you an anti-taire blanket, but yeah, it's all, and they don't never turn the lights off either, because funny story, though, when the police were coming up the door, I thought, oh, this is going to suck. So I had about 15 valiums that I decided to put between my nuts and my butt, right, and I was thinking, oh, they're not going to

strip search me. I've answered the door in boxes. It looks like I've just come out of bed. And so my custody experience wasn't too bad because I was just having blue vows every couple of hours just to try and sleep it off for a couple days. And then they came knocking and said, yep, we're actually, you're going to be remanded to custody for this while we, you know, doing further investigations and, you know, do your pleas and whatnot. So originally it was no plea and then remand to custody. So this is where it's different for the states because you have a whole bail thing. Yeah, I was going to say, well, you don't get out. Like, you have to stay there until they figure it out. Like, why got a job?

Yeah, well, I didn't. But yeah. So the way it works here is bail isn't money, right? You don't get a set amount of money that if you pay that, you'll then out. That's not how it works here. For a severe crime, like, for example, a murder or a GBAH, Section 18, in that case, you will not be granted bail usually. So it's no bail.

You could, off to prison while we, or jail or whatever. some, some, like, theft, for example, or, you know, just a little fight in the street, you will get granted bail. There's no money to it, you can just get granted bail, you're out on the street, you have bail conditions, and then you must return to the court or police station at the time they say to continue with this matter. But there's no financial number for bail here. You either get it or you don't, depending on the severity of your crime and if you're a flight risk, etc. So they reminded me to custody and then I was there for about four months. Now, the remand prison is a prison that you will go to before you are sentenced and then

when you are sentenced, you're then categorized based on your crime. So if you're a serial killer, you're going to get category A. You're going to go to an ACAT prison, which is a high security, you know, maximum security. security, you know, little rights you're going to have. B-cat, C-cat, and then D-Cat, which is open prison. So you can go home on the weekend and stuff. So a remand jail, prison, whatever, we is usually a category B because it's like a mixing pot of everyone. And the worst thing about a remand jail is you don't know who your neighbors are, you know. In the UK, they categorically keep sex offenders away from general population

because they won't survive. So they go on what's called a VP wing, a vulnerable prisoner's wing. Usually along with police officers, ex-prison staff who've been caught for stuff, they're all on the VPs. But in Remand prison, you don't know who your neighbour is.

It's just a mixing pot of the worst of the worst. My cellmate, he was in for shooting a police officer with a shotgun. One of my good friends who I made in there, he was in for murder. and then all the way down to, you know, theft, you know, whatever, burglary, stuff like that. So I was in a prison called Highdown, which was originally built to be a category A prison. One of our biggest prisons in the UK or well-known prisons is called Belmarsh.

And the blueprints for Belmarsh are exactly the same as High Down. It was built to be another Belmarsh, and then the UK decided, ah, we don't actually need any more. category A prison, so we'll just use this as a remand, a remand prison. So I was there for four months, and then eventually all went through the core things, and I paid for a really good lawyer, and it all got thrown out in the end, which was great. And luckily, towards the end of my little time in there, they were swapping which prisons were going to be which. So there's another prison in London called Wandsworth, which was built in the 1700s. It is, it exposed brick, metal bars, like, you know, 1700.

I mean, like pirates were there back in the day. Right. Like, that's how old it was. Like, there was still the big circle with the cutout in it, where they used to hang people and drop them from the level above. And so it's really old prison. And it's, but it's awful because it's cold. It's damp.

There's wraps. There's cockroaches. I mean, it's disgusting. And they were about to make that the new remand prison. And then Highdown was going to become a sentence prison again where you go after you. been on Remand and you're sentenced. And I saw people get swagged out, taken out, swag they call it, to Wonsworth because that's anyone on Remarnd and high down, need to now go to Wonsworth, because that's going to be the new Remarne prison. And I was just dreading thinking,

oh God, if I go to court and they decide they want to keep me for a bit further, I'm going to end up being shipped at Wonsworth. And I really don't want that. It couldn't have been anything worse. It's been ranked, I know, it's hard to rank a prison, but ranked the worst prison in the country is disgusting. Luckily, all got thrown out. I got to go home. So that was nice. I don't want to say names.

My two guys who were doing my bits and pieces for me, they kept it all under control. All was well. Business was going. We cracked on as normal. You didn't lose your apartment? No, no. Maria, she stayed there. She looked after it. We, you know, everything was paid up for that. I know, I had money.

Dan and Alex Fuck it They looked after everything Well one's dead So it doesn't matter They looked after everything And Maria was looked after So yeah

It all worked out in the end So when I was inside There was a guy I met Who was talking about Oxy's And we watched I think it was like a documentary That was on

About States We got talking about it And we were like It's just funny How there is no no painkiller crisis or epidemic in this country. We don't have one. You can't get them.

Doctors will not give it to you. I mean, to get prescribed oxycodone, you need to be end of life. That's the only way you'll get it. Right. So cancer, you know, terminal oil. You have an expiry date on you essentially. You are going to be gone.

And that's the only way you will get medications like that. So because doctors aren't as liberal as your doctors over there with medications. We don't have a epidemic for opioids or anything like that. But I was very curious about it. There was definitely an interesting financial figure and I thought I'll do some digging into that when I was, when I got back out. So, I made some calls when I was out because the stuff that we had coming in for the white stuff was coming through Poland. Now, I, I'm I was thinking there is so much you have to do to ensure white product gets through borders. You know, you have to hide it.

He has to be Vaxil, dogs are a problem, x-rays are a problem. You know, you spend a lot of money just hiding it or trying to get it, you know, and you have quite a high percentage that you're going to lose that shipment. So with prescription tablets, dogs can't spell them. You know, there's no problem there. and you know, worst case, relabel it as paracetamol. You know, it's not really that big of a deal. So you don't have to spend as do as much to hide it.

And Poland, luckily, also, has very lax pharmaceutical laws. So being able to get your hands on said pills was actually a lot easier than here. So make some calls. It took a while, actually, to get going and actually figure it out, and figure out the logistics of it all, but we thought, well, we'll give it a good go. I mean, the method we had was going to be put it on a lorry, you know, like a big truck with the big box on the back that goes like an 18-wheeler thing. Not necessarily an 18-wheeler, but yeah.

Do you not call it a lorry? No, like a box truck. Yeah, but like a long one. Yeah, we have like 18-wheeler's and then you have like, they call them box trucks where there maybe, maybe two sets of, you know, like a duly, like I have two-seys, sets a wheel as an attack, or maybe they just have a rider truck kind of thing where they move stuff, but it doesn't have to be an 18 wheeler. But yeah, you know, call lorries. Yeah, Lorry. So I knew a guy, I had a friend who worked in logistics, and through that we were able to find out some lorries,

some shipments that were going to be heading to the UK, doing routes either through Poland or Amsterdam. Amsterdam would have been preferable, but the whole OxyCodone thing didn't align with Amsterdam and getting it there. It just kind of actually added another trip on. If we could have had a supply in Amsterdam, that would have been great, but we didn't. So Poland was where it was going to be. That's where it was. We found a lorry and driver. Sometimes the drivers didn't even know it was actually happening. I'm almost sure of who was ready and then we're going to just do their normal run to the UK. And the shipment was air conditioning units, just like portable aircon units the homes because we don't have

aircon built into our houses in this country. So summers are actually quite shit. So everyone goes and buys the big kind of portable ones. Yeah, you put it in like what, the window or something? Yeah, you hang the hose out the window and, you know, they're pretty good, but yeah, we have those.

Some people, not most people, but very, very, there aren't really, the houses really built anymore that don't have air conditioning, but older house yeah. Yeah, you've all got aircon. So, we're also living on the surface of the sun too. Yeah, you do have nice weather over there.

I would say it's not good here. Yeah, it's super hot here sometimes. Sometimes you think it's nice, but, you know, eight months out of the year, it's practically go outside. You can't even go outside. It's so fucking hot. I can't,

I don't know how these guys that are building like building, like putting on. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how they do it. Like, I don't know what they're, it's that hot.

It'll be 110 degrees or 100 degrees. it's and what sun or i don't know what 100 degrees is oh my god it's it's bad it's what's that in like celsius 38 that's hot it's not it's hot it's hot that's something you can't you know you you think yeah every time we've spoken you've been like oh you have good weather but it depends in florida it's so hot like you know it you just almost can't you almost can't go outside it's so hot sometimes like you can go outside and you can walk around but you it's like walking walking to the car, you already start to sweat. Really? Oh, that sounds lovely.

You get in your car. You know, there are jokes about people like, you know, you can fry eggs on the, on the Yeah. That's true. That's absolutely. And you'll get in your car. You have to open up your car door and let the heat go. If you have like leather or something and you sit on the leather, you can get in itself. Wow. That's crazy. Like the dashboards will crack. War. Yeah.

Yeah. That's crazy. That is crazy. Yeah. It's like Australia. hot then, because they, they do have it hot over there, don't they? What was I saying? You were, you were saying that they were going through Poland. Poland, yeah. So the refrigerated trucks. Yeah, I mean, they weren't refrigerated. They were just holding aircon units. So they were shipping aircon units over to over to here. God knows where their final destination was, but it was very easy to just put, either fill one of those up with oxytablets or, you know, even sometimes towards, you know, sometimes we were just really brazen with it.

We didn't even cover them up because checks are so minor. They run a dog around it. You know, sometimes they'll fully inspect a truck, which is why you have to secrete it. But yeah, I mean, we had little to no problem ever with it. It just seemed to be a well-oiled machine that was almost weirdly doable. I'm surprised it hadn't. It probably is being done. What are these guys getting, you're just saying you had a contact in Poland.

Yeah. Somebody like in Poland, like are they just? This is somebody who has access to... Yeah, so... Those are manufactured. Yeah, so they... So one of my contacts that I had, and it was actually through my dad, he was friends with Albanian people. Now, Albanians, I don't know if they have the same rap over there that they do here.

I'm trying to not... I don't want to say gypsies, but... No, no, no, no, and completely different no. So gypsies are... We have more like a Romanian gypsy. Romanians are, we have those gypsies here. Albanians. Like mobsters or something?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like Slavic mobsters. Yeah, like the whole country is kind of the mob, right? Like it's kind of right? Oh, yeah. Aren't they the ones that did like the, there was like a huge pyramid scheme? Like the actual.

Okay. Yep. Yeah. So they are, it's a corrupt country. I mean, you know, Albanians here. If anyone has an Albanian number in their phone is where they get drugs from. They are just renowned to be drug dealers in this country. But they are also.

renowned for having, they must be greedy, the worst Coke white that you could have. It's just stepped on. I mean, I saw them once turn one into like six just with added it. I would never ever, I mean, I don't do that anymore, but I would try and ever avoid. That's a last call resort calling them. But they, you know, granted, they've got a good business. They'll be there at four in the morning, three in the morning, send their little runners out. You know, they do have it on lockdown. So yeah, I was friends with some of the more higher up Albanians who I just knew through family and they're just shady people and they have connections through everywhere. And it was those guys who I originally brought it up with.

I said, look, this is what I want to do. Obviously, they know about the old thing or the current ongoing thing at that point. I said, but this is what I want to try and venture into. Can you make some calls? Can you, you know, see if you can find out where we could get these? At first, they completely brushed it off. They're like, no, no, that's not really our thing. We don't really get involved with that. We have this one commodity, and that's what we do. We're not, you know, we're not interested.

So I actually had to go back a few times and ask him and ask him, I said, oh, please, come on, like, you know, this is what, I think there's real money to be made here. I'll cut you in. You know, you haven't got to do anything. Just buy me a guy who, who can do it. We already had the logistics part sorted. Just needed to find the supply. So this is where those guys came in. They gave me a call one day. It was about six months later. and was saying, you know, asked me, am I looking for Oxies? And did, do, I could that call, couldn't have come at a better time, really? And I was like, yes, absolutely. So spoke with this guy for a bit, you know, sussed him out and then met him with my Albanian

friends, just to make sure it was all kosher. I didn't really like the idea of paying up front. But that's what it was. That's what we had to do. It wasn't, you know, receive it, move it, then pay. but I guess the one thing with paying up front is you know you don't end up owing some really bad people down the line if something goes wrong right so I paid up front minimum order was 50,000 tablets and I thought oh Jesus Christ that's a bit much I was like I wasn't really wanting that you know maybe maybe two to 10,000 tablets just to kind of see you know I don't even know if people are going to do this stuff yet right that's a big big jump but it was either the that or nothing and then, you know, where I kind of sort of backpedaled a bit, you know, they kind of started to think, oh, am I just wasting their time? So I didn't want to seem

disrespectful. You know, you're in a bit of an area and environment that is, you know, you want to try and keep people happy. So, yeah, took the order, did it. Worked out to be about 10 pence. No. Worked out to be about a pound a tablet. Okay. Maybe just under. Yeah, that's the math. Yeah, a Pounder tablet. And they were 80 milligram tablets, green ones. And there's like, is it a dollar and a half or something like that? Yeah, our currency is a bit stronger than yours.

It's about a dollar 40 maybe. Yeah, it's about a dollar and a half, yeah, roughly. Yeah. Oh, yeah, a dollar and a half, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's about that. So pound's tablet, ATMG tabs, green ones. I thought, all right, let's give this a go. and stuff arrived, no problem, when they met them down in Portsmouth, which is like our seaside town

where a lot of ports are and stuff, when I met them down by Portsmouth, drove it back up and went back to my house, which is the dumbest thing you can do, but I'm just sat there with a big like box, like a moving box thing with these things in it. And I'm thinking, right, I don't even have a market for it. I don't know anyone that's going to want to do it, but let's see what we can do do. So everyone who was, I told the two guys that were working with me, I said, right, this is what we've got as well. Anyone who's calling you for white, let them know we've got these. I'm thinking, you know, give a couple for free. I don't care. You know, don't eat them, snort them, make sure they snort them because there's no point eating them. You've got to sniff

them, which is weird. In America, they all eat them. And here we all snort them. It's so weird. Were they the controlled release? yeah prolonged release yes so you have to lick the film off of it the green film so it's white and then crush it okay but yeah if you eat them their prolonged release yeah so you're not really gonna get a high out of it well i i think you will but the problem is it's not a great high

supposedly and a lot of people they'll they'll be like oh these aren't even working then they'll take another one got you got you so now it just shuts you down you fall asleep and your body just stopped, you stop breathing. Yeah, that's the problem because you're, you forget to breathe, relaxing you so much, your respiratory system just shuts down. Well, because you thought it's not working. Like there's tons of people that that's the problem is that the 80s were, you know, they were killing people because you could take a 40 and you'd get high right away.

It didn't have the control release, but the 80s they'd take and like 30 minutes later, they're like, this is doing nothing. Something's wrong. They take another one not realizing, bro, you don't understand what you just did. you're going to get a dose that's going to fucking kill you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I was going to say, I just did an interview with a guy who was talking about how two of his buddies. Really?

The first time they took them, they were all together, they got a bunch of them. He took some, something like a perk, right? He took one. And he's like, and I don't really know what they were. Yeah. So they both took like an 80 and we're going to a party. And he was like, I just wanted to go home. go to bed. He's like, so I, I don't know, I think they, he dropped them off at their houses.

But on the way there, they were like, these aren't doing anything. And they took another. Right. Right. And he went home, not realizing he doesn't even know what they are. He goes home, wakes up the next morning where somebody has been calling his cell phone. And they're like, hey, man, this guy, you know, Jimmy's, there's cops all over the place at Jimmy's house. And he thought, wow, maybe he got busted or something. So he drives over there. But he's season. ambulance and he goes over. Keep mind, these people lived across the street from each other. Right, right. While he goes up and he's talking to the mother,

like what's happening and she's crying and she's saying he died, he, he overdosed and he's like, oh my gosh. And just then you can hear across the street screaming. Yeah. The other mother woke up, went to go wake up,

her son. He died. No way. She's screaming. They go over there. they both dead and he was there with them he just didn't want to take of those because he didn't know what they were i reckon they're cut with fentanyl though no no no this is this is 30 years i mean this is 25 years ago oh really oh right okay yeah before the fentanyl days they got them out they got them

from a pharmacy this is when you go to a pill mill yeah so lucky back then and then they well then they just give them to them and they go to another pill mill and go oh it's my neck and they Yeah. You know, there's doctor shopping. Doctor shopping, yeah. I've seen the, when I started doing the whole perk thing, I obviously did a lot of watching the Purdue Farmer guys and the Sackler family. And, you know, I've brushed up on my knowledge about it.

But yeah, that's crazy. They both died. Mad. Well, that, you were saying you're sitting, you were saying you're sitting at home with a box of 50,000. Bill who's giving them away for free. Yeah. Just trying to get people. or to love them. I will just backtrack slightly, actually. There was, the reason I actually wanted to do

the whole perk thing in the beginning was we had got someone a party, me and my friend Alex, Alex, who was also doing bits for me, and we had got a couple. And he was like, yeah, try this, you know, have a line of this. And we racked up an 80, split it in two, had one line each. And the best high I have ever had in my life. Like, there is no, nothing, nothing matches oxycodone. I'm sorry, it doesn't. There is just nothing will beat it. And I was like, you know, the euphoria, the rush, just the feeling. Oh, yeah, it's, I was like, this has to be, you know, people are going to love this. But no one knew about it. No one, it was just wasn't a common thing, you know, in the States, huge, popular, but no one had an idea about what it was. So that's kind of why it all started and

why I wanted to do it. So yeah, I'm sat in my living room with all these tablets and I'm like, right, giving them away, trying to get people. people on it. A couple of repeat people said, yeah, they like it. You know, we'll, you know, we'll have a couple more, but it wasn't flowing out. Now, the price at the time was 50 pence a milligram. So 40 pounds and 80. 40 bucks. And you paid a dollar. I'm sorry. Yeah, whatever. 40 pounds. Yeah, 40 pounds. And you paid one pound. Yeah, I paid a pound. Hell of a, you can give away a lot of rebis. Yeah, yeah of the return, yeah, that profit margin.

Well, in the end, you know, we'll get to it, but in the end, you know, I completely gave up the white, you know, gave that all to Alex. I said, I'm not interested in it. It is risky, you know, you know, the dogs and the police and, you know, it's a class A drug. What do you call class A's, schedule one, right? Yeah, it's a class A. So white's a class A, yeah. You know, you can end up doing a lot of bird for that, jail time. So I was like, you know, in the end, you could take that.

But yeah, so some repeat customers. It wasn't really, you know, hugely quick. But, you know, things take time to blossom, I guess. But it was going. But, you know, white was still the main earner for me. I wouldn't have been able to survive without the white. Now, as it started growing and people started taking more and we started selling singles, we started finding people who wanted to take boxes.

A box of them is 56. There's 56 in a box, sorry, and a box would go for about 6 to 700 quid. So they're making a little bit. They can sell a couple, they can make some money, and they've got some for themselves. So people, even if I was selling them, you know, in a box, which worked out to be 20 pounds a pill, I would still, you know, they're still doubling their money and I'm still 20 times in my money. So, you know, it was fine. The problem was when I started doing them. Right.

And that is the fall of everything. Right. Is it? That is where it just got out of control. And I quickly build a tolerance to them, you know? One first time you take them, all I ever had to do was that little half of an 80 with my friend. And I felt it all night long to the very end when I was doing, you know, 10 to 14 80s a day just to feel normal, not even to get a buzz out of it just so that I'm not sick and dying. and, you know, withdrawing. But that's down the line. So I'm doing them, you know, I feel like I've

got it under control. I'm never going to run out, you know, I'm never going to go through that problem and that pain. The money's coming in. People are getting hooked. So it's repeat business. You know, I'm capitalizing on people's misfortune because unlike white, you know, they can take it or leave it. No one's really addicted to white. And I really argue that point, you know, there's no physical dependency for white. I really, really argue that. No one is out homeless on the street giving hand jobs for half a gram of white. You know, it doesn't happen. So, yeah, sure, but not white. So people are getting hooked. They're, you know, they're just rapidly going. Boxes are being taken. It just grew into something really, really profitable in the end. And this is all

in my little, you know, city of Guilford, the surrounding towns, that kind of area. And I was also heavily addicted myself and started probably being a little bit lazy with things, having people just come to meet me at mine, you know, before the religious rule was no one comes to my house. No one knows where I live, you know, to the point where I'm so strung out that I'm just in bed, leave the door on the latch, people come in and I just give them. what they need from my bed and even leave bed like it's terrible but i'm just so strong out my partner obviously maria of course she got hooked as well so she's addicted to these things she's you know i mean she's never going to get sick because we have enough but she's hooked i'm

hurt we're just not being good people and i'm there just capitalizing of people's addiction right um one day um um um maria's mom wanted her to come home. She saw that she was in a bad way. She said, I shouldn't be here. You know, she should, she shouldn't be with me. She needs to get out of that environment. And to a degree, I appreciate that. She probably shouldn't have been and I was not being good to her in a sense of, you know, feeding her problem. So her and her mom have an argument on the phone. And she's like, no, I'm not going home. I want to stay here. You know, I'm happy here, blah, blah, blah. And her mom, who already hates me because of the sister thing

and the many arguments I've had with them so hates my guts. You know, she wouldn't care if I'd drop dead. She calls the police on me and says that I am controlling her daughter and not allowing her home and I'm, you know, keeping her captive

and she's not allowed to leave and stuff like that. And I'm like, what the fuck? This is crazy. So the police turn up, women police officers too. I've got no problem with women, But women cops, when they're attending a thing like that, like, almost tried telling me, you know, Maria's there saying, I'm not going.

I'm happy here. I want to go. And the women cops are like, yeah, that's what a victim would say, you know, that he's brainwashing you clear. I'm like, who the fuck? You're supposed to be impartial to this? Like, you're not supposed to be telling one way or the other. So she wants to go anyway.

So they can't interview her properly with me present. So they arrest me on the suspicion of control and coerce. Right. And I'm like, I was like, Marie, I'll see you in fucking couple of hours. I'll get this all tired, you know, dealt with. And they're like, can we go through your phone? We want to just see that you're not controlling her and, you know, saying, and well, yeah, strung out me, didn't say no.

So I'm thinking there, I'm like, because they're like, we want to go through your phone. We just want to see, you know, show us that, you know, that we're not controlling her, coercing her, telling her what to where, where she can't go anywhere, da, da, da, and we, I'm like, yeah, because I'm not a fucking, not an asshole like that. Sure thing. We're a drug dealer. Yeah, but I didn't really have anything on my main phone.

I never really had much on my main phone. Okay. I would be concerned like, oh, no, I can't have you see people saying, hey, I'm coming by to pick this up or meet me here or I got, you know. I'm not an idiot. I wouldn't have that on a fucking iPhone. You know, you have those on burner phones or encro phones. I know, but you aren't at this point. You're strung out.

You've got people coming to the house. You've got major mistakes. Major mistakes. You know, what was six years of a well-oiled business printing money at this point, just all just went to shit because of that drug. You're right, making mistakes, being sloppy, couldn't give a shit, thought I was untouchable, police weren't coming, you know, never had a problem, oh well. So I'm like, yeah, go through my phone, no problem.

And they're like, cool, give us the pass code, you'll go back to your cell and we'll come get you if we have any questions. I was like, okay, cool. And I never came and got me. And I'm like, hmm. And then in my head, I'm like, what is on that phone? I wonder. And I'm going through it in my head. I'm like, no, no, that's fine. That's fine. And what it was that they, well, they released me, but they didn't tell me they were onto me. So they're like,

all good. All right. See you later. Tommy. You're all good to go. All right. Pack my stuff up. They just left me there for ages long ago. I thought they were just going to go through the phone and let me out. But it was like another four hours. So they were doing something. They were bugging my phone. They were, they were doing something shaky, I don't know. So on my way and no further action on that crime, NFA. So I said, I kept off the best, you're going to drop me home because considering you've taken me here, I'm not being found guilty of any crime. Do you want to take me home? So they actually did, which was nice of them. So I'm there at home and we go straight back to just being crackheads, you know, just being junkie. It's weird. You know, you know,

ever really see yourself as a junkie when you've got money and you're wearing nice clothes and you're wearing a nice watch and you've got anything you want to do but you know you're just as good as those people on the fucking street if you're doing this kind of stuff um you know if it wasn't for the the two guys you know that were doing bits on me the whole business would have just crumbled to nothing so Alex you know he kept that afloat you know hats off to him he was a good guy nothing really changes for the next month two months we're just you know doing our thing things are team taking along as normal, nothing crazy. I'm lying in bed and I've got big TV on the wall and then in the corner to the left of that TV I've got another little monitor which has my camera set up and I've got

one going down the hallway of the flat block. I've got one at the top cause at the top. I've got one shooting facing down the driveway of this like where you go up to get to my flat and then it kind of sees down the road a bit and then I've got one at the back. And now at nighttime. Have you ever seen what a British police car looks like? Yeah. You know, super high viz, like fluorescent green, yellow, blue. I'm thinking of like more of an old black and white one where they have, like, we've evolved since then, all right, it's not the 70s. Yeah, they're like, they're not like yours, black and whites. They're, they're usually, they have a mix of cars, to be fair. I mean, you guys like your chargers and stuff. They usually use, our guys use the big Volvo

XC90s, big cars like that. Anyway, they're like high-vis fluorescent yellow, blue, like checkered pattern down them. You can see them at Mile off. The whole point of the police here is apparently they say, you know, we want to be seen, we're here if you need us. It's not about being sneaky in the black charge around the corner. So on CCTV, those cars show up so well at nighttime. Because once the sun goes down, the CCTV changes to.

like the infrared mode. You got it. That's it. That's it. That's a traffic one. That's a beam. Yeah, that's a traffic cop. So he'll be the chaser.

Well, the motorway, like the traffic police or like, you know, like they'll drive the powerful BMW 3 series, 5 series. You know, you're not getting away from those cars. They're tuned, mapped, you know, race chipped. They're fast cars. We do have some other, you know, we have the XC90s. We have like Land Rover defenders. stuff like that.

But, yes. What's that? That's a perjo by looks of things, isn't it? Or was that Scoda? Hmm. That's not a perjo. Anyway, sorry. You don't have perjos, I don't think.

Pujos? Pujos? Yeah, Pujo, sure. Uncultured, motherfucker. Yeah, I think, I've seen, we've seen, every once in a while you'll see one. It's because they're French, right? We have a lot of European cars, right?

Obviously, you have tons of European. Yeah. Like, we have BMWs and Mercedes, but we're the very basic ones. We don't have anything. You might see like a fiat or what are the minis? Mini, yeah, Mini Cooper, yeah. They're cool. We'll see some of those.

We see those. The new ones are cool. The new minis are cool because the back lights are Union Jacks. You know what we see a ton of is more, more, more of Tesla's. Oh, we've got tons of those here now. They're everywhere. I love a Tesla. I'd love to have a Tesla. Yeah, my wife would never let me get, let us get a Tesla.

She's really? She's a mechanic. She was raised in an area called Okachovia. It's very backwoods pickup trucks and Confederate flags. And so she likes muscle cars, you know what I'm saying? Hunting and, you know, she's. I do love a petrol car. Like, I love my car.

I drive a Jaguar. And like, it's just. fucking problems. That's all it is. Jaguars are just constant. I think it's either just Jaguars themselves or how do you say that? Jaguar, right? Yeah, Jaguar. So weird.

Yeah, that's what I've got. But they're just, I swear, like petrol cars are just, or diesel, petrol, whatever, they're just problems. I swear you're always going to the shop to get something sorted. Tesla's, you know, it's a battery, isn't it? It's a toaster. Yeah, it goes. The most complicated part of the car is the

battery, it's a battery and it's an electrical mode that just go, yeah, so it's not they're super, they're super simple, like, you know, I get, I get it, but people are resistance. Listen, we, was it like 40 years ago? The US tried to move to the metric system.

Like, we're not doing it. People are not. Yeah, they did. They did for about five years. They really pushed it. People were like, absolutely not. We're not doing that. I mean, the metric system makes more sense, though. It makes more sense to metric system. Of course it does.

It's all in tins, right? Like, it's very easy. Yeah. And like Celsius, right? Do you know why that makes sense? Because zero when water freezes, a hundred when water boils. I hear you. Total sense.

I hear you. Absolutely not having not having it. That's fine. The shirts that say, we don't care how you do it over there, you know. Yeah, but we founded you. You should be more like us, I feel like, you know. It's not, like, the, like, the, you know, it's not. Like the whole driving on the right thing, that's ridiculous as well.

Like, I don't know how that all changed over. The left makes more sense, you know? Do you know why we drive on the whole driving thing? The jousting thing, right? From back in the day? No, I did not know that. Yeah, so one of our kings, he, you know, most, before we used to drive on, or horse and cart used to be on the right.

And you would, you know, have your, have your, have your, hold your horse's range with your right hand, and you would have your sword in your left. So that's why you drive on the right. but then we had a king who became right-handed and decided, no, everything's going to go to the left now, because I want to be able to draw with my right hand. And that's how it all just stayed, became.

Yeah, we have loads of weird little laws and, like, history, things like that. Like, yeah, it's just, they go, they just date back forever. It's like, it's madness. I can't remember one. Like, they, like, you're not allowed to be near the House of Parliament in a full suit of armour. stuff like that he's still going to jail for that it's crazy where i grew up was really it's very like i said lots of money wells it's a affluent area like it's a very posh well like do you use the word posh right yeah posh do you where posh comes from that word i i do i'll use posh but like my my wife she she would be like

what do you know where the the word posh was from back when in england when we used to have cruise cruise right? They would go out back in the, like, Titanic days. And the wealthy, the, the upper class, they would have their luggage stamped posh, P-O-S-H, which was port out, starboard home. So they'd have the best view out and the best view coming back. And they were obviously the most wealthy people. So that's where the word posh comes from. Nice. Port view out, starboard view home, yeah. Well, I'll lose that next time. But yeah, that didn't do me. me any favours when I went to prison though because they're all like London you know in it like you know I don't know the way to say without offending a lot of people but a little bit more commonly spoke

but when I go into prison sounding like me you know they thought I was a cup they thought you know I was in for every time I spoke to someone you know they were like oh you're fraud yeah fraud yeah typically like thinking I'm in for like white collar crime but yeah no we like you say about the slang thing we have a lot of slang here, which I've tried to deliberately not use as much as possible, like, because there's a thing here that we don't really use too often, but like you will. It's called rhyming slang, which, so this was invented in, I don't know, the 50, 60s by like London gangsters so that if their phones were tapped, the police wouldn't know what they were saying. So, for example, Stairs, right, is apples and pairs. A suit is whistle and flute. A phone is dog and bone. But you only, if you're using it

in a sentence, you would only ever say the first word from that little rhyme. So if you were to say, go upstairs, grab the phone, put on a suit. You'd say, run up the apples, grab the dog and put on your whistle. And no one had an idea what anyone was saying. But that still is now in today's like obviously it's not used to hide yourself from criminal activity but it's just been put into the general life like you know pockets skyrocket you know everyone was i put that in your skyrocket mate or your face you know your boat race or your boat so yeah you we have no idea what we're saying in a proper conversation what so okay so you're you're you're watching tv and you've got some small monitors beside the tv and you glance over and you see a cop car and you think oh i

don't see a cop car i see a fleet of cop cars so they're because it's gone to sundown now the cameras have changed to infrared right the black and white kind of and those cop cars that you showed me they reflect all light off they look like beacons coming up the road and i was lying in bed and i'm next to maria and i said oh look at that i said someone's been naughty like you know two cars one van another van and two one marked cars so undies And I was saying to Maria, I said, fucking hell, like, so they're creeping up. It's that time, six in the morning, four in the morning, whatever. It's that kind of time, raid time.

And I went, fuck, someone's been a naughty boy. Anyway, then they stop on the driveway. And I went, oh, fuck, it's us. They're coming. And I jumped out of bed. I'm trying to, like, wonder if there's anything in the house. I'm not stupid enough where I keep tons of tons of stuff in the house. You know, I had a few things.

But I was like, all right, fuck, fuck. up and like it felt like I jumped out of bed, got to my door and they're already trying to boot the door down. Now, I'd paid and had my old door taken off and had this thick, thick, like, wood door with a metal plate down the back of it. And they were trying to boot it with the red, the big red key, you know, that big thing. And they weren't getting through. And then I'm thinking, all right, we've got a bit more time. And then they started chainsawing it off. They use it like a, like a, what, they use a huskavana and just go straight down the hinges. Police, because of the previous time, I had a firearms marker on my name now from the

previous time I was in prison. So now, because I have a firearms marker on my name, only firearms police will ever deal with me. I can no longer be dealt with by unarmed police, which is ridiculous, but it is what it is. So all of these cops, it's balaclavas, you can't see anything. Like, with assault rifles, red dots all over. me. Marie's in the bedroom screaming, like crying, trying to, like, put a dressing gown on and cover herself up. And I'm like, what the fuck, you know, what are you here for? And what's your problem? And, like, the guns in my face, he's like, get on the fucking ground. And I'm, I'm not

getting on the floor. And I'm just like, hey, what is the problem? We can talk about this. Like, chill out. I know you're all pumped up, but let's just... What past walking? They just... They're just... They're saying saw your whole door at half. Yeah, you're right. You are right. Their mind up. Yeah, they had. You're right. They were there for one thing.

But I was like, come on, mate. Let's just, you know, if you haven't got a shout, I've got neighbours, let's just talk about it. And yeah, they won't have any of it. They were like, get on the fucking ground, pin me to the fucking wall. And I'm in my boxes. That's it. Nothing else. And they'd walk me down, fucking parade me through the gardens in front of all my neighbors and my boxes.

It's so embarrassing. And I'm there in the back of a police van. And they've got this little window. when I'm just looking up at my flat block, right? Through my living room, I could see my living room, and I could see my second bedroom windows, my kitchen and that were on the backside. But I could see up there, they turned all the lights on, and they're just trashing my house. They're cutting through the dry wall, like, so basically turned my house open plan without, without me wanting it to be, and just saw every, you know, every, like, they're putting the cameras down, you know, like to see

if you're hiding stuff down the walls. Right? So they've cut through all the walls. They're trashing my house. And I'm probably in this van, in my boxes. It's so cold. I'm probably in there for like two hours. And I'm literally saying,

I'm shaking like a shitting dog, like freezing. And I'm saying to them, I'm like, what, you know, what's going on? Like, why am I even being arrested for? And they said, section 20, what was it, section 23, misuse of drugs act? And I was like, all right, okay. I'm not going to say anything more there.

It sounds like you might be onto something. So I'm sat there. And I had these two Coca-Cola cans in my fridge. Right? They were dummy cans. I sent you my paperware. Did you see the pictures of the Coca-Cola cans in the fridge? Yeah.

They are like safe, you know, dummy cans. And I had a load of pills in there. They were like, they weren't like for sale or anything. They were just like personal, you know, tablets, you know. Yeah, they were there. And there was some other miscellaneous items around the house. house that I didn't know. I mean, you saw the, you saw the everything they seized from my house, like one large zip-block quantity of tablets, Coca-Cola tins full of stuff, money, more pills in the

safe. But they didn't have like the main bulk of all my stuff. Alex had that, but I had enough there for them to feel like they had done a good job. So they came out and I saw the Coca-Cola cans in a Ziplot bag and I thought, fuck, yeah, I'm done. I'm done. And they arrest Maria to too. So Maria is in another police van. I'm in a police van and we head to the police station. Off we go. My house being turned into a fucking crime scene is just got, and my dogs nearly got shot as well. My neighbours had to take my dogs because they weren't happy about it. So they had to go. So we're in the police cells. I'm in one cell down one corridor. Maria is in another corridor. They've kept us apart so we can't talk. Assholes. And I'm there. I'm there. I'm there. I'm

And I'm thinking, right, what, you know, what am I going to say? What am I going to do? Asked for my lawyer. Lawyer came, had a chat with my lawyer. They disclosed what they've got. And the reason they came was because of that arrest before, where they'd gone through my phone. And they had seen my Bitcoin transactions, right? So money going in and out from customers. And then large Bitcoin purchase amounts for the stuff. they also had found a mock-up of a menu sheet for how much they were costing per tablet and only like because it wasn't the main phone but Alex and I were friends so we did talk on the main phone sometimes you know the odd text here and there on WhatsApp or whatever but no business went through that phone but that was enough when they arrested me back then to go right we're going to keep an eye on this guy you know he's clearly up to something there's some dodgy

text there with his mate and he's got a lot of money coming in through Bitcoin on Coinbase. So let's keep an eye on him or give him a couple months to settle down. We'll go kick his doors in and see what we can find, which is exactly what happened. So I've seen all this now and I'm like, right, okay, so we're going to go no comment and, you know, they're going to ask me a load of questions. You're going to go no comment. Maria's going to do the same. and all I want is Maria not to go to prison. I know I'm going to prison. I've already, I'm not even trying to go,

oh my God, I don't want to go to jail. I know it's happening. I've already got into the headspace. You're going to jail, mate. Like, it's happening. But all I wanted was Maria not to go to prison. I just didn't want that. But she doesn't need that in her life.

You know, she's trying to build a business and she's trying to be good and she's got no criminal record. I'm like, fuck, I don't want to ruin this girl's life. So I'm thinking, like, I want to take all of the blame for everything. and you don't want to live any more than you are

any more that's right anymore yeah that's it all of a sudden I'm the good guy yeah so I'm trying to you know take with a blame and my lawyer's like look it's too early for that now like you know you'll we'll tackle that later

but at the moment you're going to prison yeah she didn't go to prison she didn't get remanded because she's got no record she's a good girl they know that she played a lesser role So I don't know how your category of workings is in the States, but we have lead role, significant role, lesser role. Yeah, we have something to support of that. Oh, do you?

Yeah, you have like, you have like the, oh gosh, basically that the guy in charge. Yeah. You know, and then you have like people, you know, support, people that are underneath them. Don't they do something in America where it's like kingpin charge or something? Yeah, but it'd have to be, you'd have to. they probably could hit you with a kingpin. Like it's, it's,

you have to have like a bunch of people underneath you, right? And like it has to be kind of like a hierarchy. A hierarchy. Honestly, I did a, I wrote a book about these kids called a generation oxy. And they hit, I think they hit one of them with like the kingpin roll.

He probably had like six or eight guys that were that he was getting pills and he was giving those pills to them and they were selling it. Yeah. And I think that's what it basically kind of boils down to. Do you have distributors working underneath you? Or are you just a guy who's, you're getting it and you're selling it? Like, that's not a kingpin. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.

So you probably could have fallen into that because I'm assuming it's you, kind of you and Alex at the top and you guys have distributors underneath. They're selling the dealers that are selling to. That's it. Addicts. So they could hit you. Plus, you're not, it's not like you're shipping in. minor bits and pieces. And, well, of course, it's different in the UK, but, you know, anything international in the United States is a, yeah, with like they're fucking huge. But you guys are like,

all these countries are bordering each other. So I can imagine. Yeah. And we're a small country, you know, it doesn't take long to get to Poland. It's a couple of hours. You know, you can be in France. I can take a train to France. Do you know what I mean? We're all kind of linked in there. Yeah. Here, you're, you could drive for 18 hours before you could get to California. I mean, Yeah, I know. I know. It's crazy. It's fucking nuts. Like, Texas is huge. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing. It gets so hot. You know those cones, the yellow or the, oh, yeah. Yeah. Or like fall over. Oh, no way. That's nuts. It's melt, but they actually just, they can't, they can't maintain their rigidity. Yeah, and it just. Yeah. The other guy, Texas. And they were on the side. We just saw just tons of them. just pop laying on their sides and you're like,

where's that in Florida? No, no, this was in Texas. Oh, that's in Texas. What happened in Florida? I just never seen it in Florida. Yeah. Come to me, obviously, I know I kind of glazed,

glossed over it, but that 50,000 tablets wasn't the only one we had. You know, there was several times. No, no. I'm assuming by now you've brought a lot more and more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've had about probably just under 20

between the first and me going away. probably about, I know, maybe I'll have 14, 15. So they let, they let her go. So let her go on bail. Yep. Let her go on bail because she's got no criminal record, you know, she's got, she's got a job to go to and stuff like that. They look like they have a phone full of fucking transactions.

Well, well, they did seize her phone. This is where me defending her became very difficult because they seized her phone. and I set her up with a Coinbase account because I needed, there's a limit you can send on Coinbase, like daily or weekly, I don't know. So I set one up on her account so she could take payments, make payments for me. And then she was also, you know, she was all meeting people for me as well. I mean, you know, doing bits and pieces for, yeah. So there was some stuff on her phone and they seized it and they let her go. So she's got no phone. She's been released back home. She's gone home to this house that's now open plan without wanting it to be. It's just fucked like everywhere. It's just fucked. She's got

no phone. I can't contact her because she hasn't got a number or anymore. I'm on my way to prison. And while I was sitting there, I was like, oh, I'm going to go to that fucking jail that I didn't want to go to. So I've been remanded. So I had to go to that Wandsworth prison. So I was there for the best part of a year. So I'm in this remand prison, one's worth, it's fucking horrible. Get there, this is my first time in proper, like, getting to it. I knew the last thing was going to be quick, done and dusted, and, you know, I was in high down, which is a relatively new jail, so it's quite, you know, it's not dirty. This was like something out of, like, a gulag. It was awful. Get there, and it's induction, and I'm on the induction wing. I remember I went to come. I went to

custody in my boxes. So I get prison uniform. I haven't even got to take my own clothes into prison with me. So I have to wear the prison clothes, which is shit. No one wants to wear the prison clothes. We all want our own clothes. Oh yeah, you don't get that. Obviously, yeah. Yeah, we were allowed to wear our own clothes in jail. You might be able to keep your own clothes on. Excuse me. If you're being held for a couple hours at the sheriff's department. But the moment you go to like a jail because you're going to be there for a day or two. You're going to be like an orange jumpsuit or a t-shirt or something.

Like they're going to put you in shirt all clothes. Yeah, that's not good. That's not good. They've been worn by 10,000 guys and they're just horrible, nasty. Oh, yeah, disgusting. Well, the prison outfits that we've got are gray, gray track suit. That's it. No pocket.

No tracksuit, no drawstring, elastic band, you know, and it's just a gray. fitting track suit, arms too short, because they're made in the prisons by the women prison. So the girls' prisons make all of our clothes and sheets and stuff. So I've actually got a pair of prison boxes over there that say made in HMP. I was wearing them on my release. So I'm in this induction wing. I'm in a police station track suit and police station like plimsole shoes because I didn't get my shoes either.

And I'm on the induction wing. and I get put in this cell, this horrible, like exposed brick, freezing cold. And this is day two without any oxycodone. So I am starting to struggle, like really, really struggle. And I had to piss in a cup when I got in there, like they do to everyone. And it ticked for like everything, you know, benzos because I've been doing valiums and stuff. Opiates, because I had her doing the oxycodone, other bits and things. pieces in there. So I managed to get the nurse to give me subotex or suboxone, I think you guys call it,

to ease the problem. So I had subtext for about three or four days to try and, you know, well, I would have been had it for a lot longer, but when it was time to get off the induction wing, the officer came to my door. There was obviously new batch of people coming in. They need the cell. this is just induction, you need to go to your permanent wing now. And they're like, you're going to the detox wing. And I'm like, oh, no, I'm not. That is a horrific wing to be on. Just full of, I mean, you can imagine the kind of people on a detox wing.

Like, all of my customers kind of thing, that'd be the kind of people who are being there. So I'm just not doing it. So I said to them, look, you can keep fuck your subtext off, mate. I'm not having it. I said, take it, you know, don't take me off the script. You're not allowed to have a box of it in yourself. give it to you every day, check the tongue and all that. But I said, take me off the script. I'll just sweat out for a week and a half. You know, I'll probably die. It is right. I've been doing

so much, but fuck it. I'm not taking that. I'm not going to the induction wing. So luckily, I was able to go to general population wing where it was just awful. I mean, my, I was on the third landing. No, I was on the fourth landing, four stories up. And being that it was a remand jail, you know, it's a mixing part. So on, on, on, we're only, you're not allowed out to socialize. So we're only got out for socialization once every three days. Other than that, you're in your cell. Wandsworth is such a beaten up old prison. The TVs in the cells don't work, right? So they don't work. Your phone in your cell doesn't work. So you're just in. There's no TVs in prison. They're all. They're all here. There's no phone.

In if you're guys, guys, you'd be like phone in your cell? Yeah, it's good. I never have any cell or a phone. You get out. If you got out what you're talking about, you would get out three times a week. And they let you out just about, you had about 45 minutes. So you could go stand in line to just take the shower or you go online to use the phone. You couldn't do both.

Interesting. But you get out every day, though. No, no, it depends if what you're talking about, like, where they kind of have a, it's called lockdown, right? Like they're locked down all the time. They would let you out like three times a week for 45 minutes. Right. Maybe an hour. Right.

Okay. But you're in line. It's like you've got, you've got a hundred guys trying to use four showers. Yeah. And they're not right. Okay. Or four phones. You're like, so you can't do it.

But like, what do you want to do? You want to take a shower? because you get in the line for the shower by the time you get there, you can't use the phone, you can't get in the line for the phone. So you don't have the, oh, so there's no phones in the cells at all. How do you call your people? You go, you go and stand in line for the phones. No, that's, that's, that can't be right.

That's against human rights, surely. That's mad. I would have lost my shit because I got into, I got, I got into a cell where the phone was broken. And I said, no, not moving into that, mate. I said, not a chance. I said, I need to speak to Maria, my lawyers. Do you know what I mean? How am I going to do that?

We're locked down all the time. I have a lawyer to speak to. I need my phone. So, yeah, I managed to get in the cell. No, no. I mean, they were right with me, to be fair. I mean, I was. I know, but I'm saying in here, they'd be like,

I don't know what you think this is, but you're going in that cell. That is your net cell. Yeah. I'm trying to do that. Yeah. It is different, I must say. It is different. But like, it's hard.

It's different and shit in its own ways, I think. Like, because we had an American guy on the wing who was in for bringing weed in from California. Oh, green. Sorry, you have to buzz that out. See, but in California, I think you can get TV. When you get to prison, you can get a TV. You can buy a TV and have a TV, I think, in California prisons. You're not going to get this.

You might have a cell phone, but it's contraband. Yeah, yeah, we have, yeah, we're not allowed them, but we everyone got an iPhone. phone in there because we have the drone people get drone deliveries that's crazy see there was no drones when i was locked up no no you were quite a long time ago wasn't it when you were doing it yeah i got i was it wasn't even covid like now my understanding is like drones are just constantly coming in and drop yeah yeah yeah people wanting stuff and but yeah so yeah i got into my first or the first sell off the induction wing and i'm back in i'm in general population and it's just a remand gel right so i'm waiting for, I'm gearing up for sentencing, I'm gearing up for plea, you know, what am I going to

plea, what we're going to do, what evidence do they have, you know, my main goal is I'm telling my lawyer, look, I'll do more time, just make sure Maria doesn't do any time. So what if we've got to say, you know, if I've got to say, you know, I controlled her and it was like, we have a charge here in, in England called modern slavery, which if you, a lot of, like, in London specifically, they have like they get long like kids to do their running around right to do like the deals like so the guy you know like for example me would have a bunch of just kids on push bikes doing all like the little deals around town because kids are expendable for one and they don't really serve any jail time because they can say they were co-hast but if you get caught doing that you get a modern slavery charge which isn't

a good charge to have you know it's you're going to jail so I said you know let's see no do we have to go down that route, you know, did I control, co-hurst, whatever it was, you know. But my lawyer said, look, we've had the disclosure from the police and she has not got good stuff on her phone. You know, she's got stuff like clearly not being coerced, you know, happy to make that drop and, you know, receiving payments from so and so, like, she was clearly a part of it. So right now, the categories that they're trying to go for are lead role for you and lesser role for her, for a conspiracy to supply class A, concern to supply class A, possession with intent to supply class A, and then some aggravating factors. I don't know what you guys call them. You call them. What happens

when you do a crime, but you have something that makes it even worse? Yeah, yeah. It could aggravate it. Oh, aggravating, right. So then they put like the organized crime stuff on there. That adds it. Firearms markers. That puts your time up. All this kind of stuff just doesn't help your case. Well, aggravated assault or they have aggravated, I got charged with aggravated identity theft. Oh, yeah, no, I get that, but like, you could have a charge and then you'll have mitigating circumstances and aggravating circumstances. One brings it down, one brings it up. Yeah, enhancements.

They call them enhancements. Oh, enhancements. That's it. Yeah, you have enhancements. That's right. So, yeah, aggravating factor. So I had some aggravating factors. She didn't, which is why I was lead role for conspiracy.

She was lesser role. So that's what they were going. for. And I tried to, I tried to say, look, it was me. And the judge, the first judge at our police where we were trying to get her thrown out. This fucking bitch, she was having none of it. She was an awful woman. I mean, I get it. We were in the wrong, but she was just a dick. So she was like, no, because I said, I used her phone to make, you know, drops or sales or da-da-da-da-da. But Maria, stupid fucking woman, she's only gone to. She's only gone to and done like the girl version of the emoji, you know, when putting an emoji. And, you know,

you can hold it and then put the girl with hair or like the stupid little dancing senorita one, you know, that shit. Emoges I would never fucking use. And they've seen it in all my text that I've never used them before. So they're like, clearly, she is doing this. And I'm like, oh, babe, you know, I'm trying to help you here, but you're not making it fucking easy for me. So that judge, she was like, nope, she's still, you know, we're still going to be pursuing, you know, the same things as it was. No, nothing's changed. So I went, all the way to prison. So I went all the way to court and then came all the way back. That was my plea where I pled. I pled guilty. So I just played guilty straight away. There was no trial. No,

not guilty. You know, I went guilty. So then it's adjourned for sentencing. She pled not guilty. And also, no, she just pled not guilty for the whole way through. And then with the possession charge, she's pled guilty to possession, but not with intent to supply. Because the drugs were in the house. she can't fucking dispute it, that's possession. So because she's gone not guilty, there's a trial now activated, which means I'm never going to get sentenced until the trial's ended. So I've now gone fucking out, you know what I mean, it's going to be forever. And then we got, we had to go, I had to go back to court for another thing where they were doing, I can't remember what they call those kind of hearings. It's just a hearing where they do like paperwork and stuff. Sometimes

you need to attend, sometimes you don't need to attend. And it was a different judge. Apparently a judge who I'd been speaking to my fellow prisoners about, who was the judge you want if you're going in for drugs. He does not give a fuck about judge drugs. Judge Taylor, his name was. Apparently, that's the one I was trying to get. Now, I didn't have him for my sentencing, but I did have him for that little second time I had to go to court.

And he ended up throwing Maria out of the case completely, going, no, I can't see any, you know, she was just caught up in it. She's a good person. She's got no record. You know, I don't see this. We've got the guy we want. He's the one behind bars. You know, nothing's going to continue while he's away.

So she can go. So I was like, yes, we've done it. We actually did it. But it actually ended up doing me a favour because what was in a conspiracy case, you can't conspire with yourself. And I know I said this to you before. But once it's just one person in the indictment, there's no more conspiracy for me.

Right. So they dropped the conspiracy charge for me too. And I ended up being just sitting with, concerned, being concerned in the supply and importation of oxycodone. So it's still not a good charge to have. Like, I'm there jumping for joy about conspiracy, but that concern charge is still a very bad charge to have. And, yeah, not looking at a good time.

I'm a little freak out that I had in prison once was when I got called out of nowhere. And they're like, you're going to court, you know, call my name, come knock what they do is they knock on your cell door about six in the morning. And they're like, they say, your last name and like you're going to court. I'm like, what the fuck am I going to court? I said, what court am I going to? I've already been to court. And they're like, you're going to Winchester, Crown Court. And I went, no, I said, I'm all in Guilford. I said, that's not my, what if I got going on down there? I said, I've been arrested in that, that's that county. I said,

why would I be needed down there? And I'm also thinking, shit, if I go there, then I won't be returned back to this prison because this prison's for this county. Or if I go to Winchester, court, they'll send me to Winchester prison, which is just like Wandsworth, but on the seaside, a shit prison, but cold and salty air. So I refused. I said, no, I'm not going. I said, I'm not fucking doing it. I said, you stick up your ass. I'm definitely not going there until I know what it's about. So I quickly ran and called my lawyer. What, you know, why are the courts wanting me? They can't see anything on the court listing database. I'm like, what the fuck's going on? what it was, I'd done some security work back in years back, a couple years back,

and we had to kick some guy out for punching a woman in a club, and we kicked him out, pound him to the ground, police came and took him, took our names. They wanted me to appear as a witness, and I didn't know, and I was like, fuck, I thought I'd done something wrong. I didn't do it, fuck, I'm not helping them, look where I am, but like, yeah, that was a scary time. Just last thing you want when you're in prison, just having all this. extra shit, you think you're going to get extra charges. That's the one thing people freak out about in there is what else are they going to get you on, especially with drugs. Right. Because, you know, drugs, you know, they might find another phone. Concern, the charge I've got

was concerned, which means they've dated it. From X date to Y date, you imported and distributed this. Let's say a new bit of evidence comes back and they can go, oh shit, he was doing it for two years before. They can come charge you again. So it's scary being in there for drugs. So you just never know what you're going to get. And what they like to do is gate arrest you. So you'll do your sentence. Day one, you're leaving. Hand-house up the gate. Whereas you're walking out the door, they arrest you for something. Walking out the door. How, what a shit move that is. You know, all your people there ready to get you. That'll happen with the state. Like, guys will finish their state, you know, charge, or they'll get something dropped in the state.

And then they're walking out the door and then the feds will grab them, arrest them for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a nice thing to do. So I was, I forgot what I was at there. So I was doing my sentence. I've been sentenced now and I had to be categorized. So being that it's drugs, you know, drugs usually you get category C. So you skip the horrible A and B stuff and you usually go to C. Because there was an aggravating factor, they wanted to keep me in B. Sorry, because the aggravating factor, or, sorry, because the aggravating factor, or, of organised crime. They wanted to keep me in a B-Cat prison. More security. High if, you know, you need, I don't really know why. But yeah, they kept me there. So I had to stay in Wandsworth for longer. Onsworth, you're supposed to be there a couple months and then you're off to a sentence prison. And, you know, you begin your sentence and you crack on. But I had to stay there for a year, which was shit. I got a job as a, as a listen, they call it a listener. So the, so,

don't know if you have the Samaritans in America. Do you have the Samaritans? I Like an 0800, it's a number. You can call them, like a free number you call if you're, like, suicidal. And, like, you're feeling down and, like, it's a crisis line. Okay. So. So, you have, like, suicide. Like, you have a crisis, you have crisis lines, yes.

Yeah, I'll show you. Actually, I've got it here. Let's see sex. And you say they have inmates are answering the phone? Yes. So, no. Well, you, on the back of your, so that's my prisoner ID. right? Okay. And then on the back you have the Samaritans, right, a number to call if you're like feeling shit.

So what they do, they do a program in there that if you are not a complete like dickhead and you're like, you know, you're educated and you can, you know, read and write and you're not just being a nightmare for them. They do a program where the listeners will come, the Samaritans will come in and they will train you and to be essentially one of them. and then you will go on a rotor in the prison. And day or night, if someone rings their alarm bell and they're, you know, or they're cutting up or they're trying to hang themselves and they want to speak to someone and you're on shift, you will go and speak with this person and try to like, you know, give them an ear, talk them down or give them an ear or, you know, a lot of people are like, they've got nothing or no one outside, those kind of people

and no one to call is approaching Christmas time and or the misses is broken up with him or something and like I've saw so many people with that job you know just slicing their arms up blood everywhere sometimes I got called and by the time we were there the guy was dead especially oh yeah it was awful actually you know I saw a lot of stuff that I kind of wish I didn't have to see in there but it wasn't a nice especially in Onsworth where it's just lock up all the time and no one's got anything it's it's a bad time so they I stayed there for a year in B-CAP got that job. I thought that would do me good for my next recategorization, which it did. And I got put into C-Cat, which was cool. Got to go to a C-Cat prison. So I've worked my way down. I'm trying to head

for D-Cat on my open prison. I want to go home. What, how much time did you get? Did you say? Eight do four. Okay. Okay. Did you say that? No, I haven't said that yet, to be fair. Oh, okay. So have you been sentenced yet? No. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I thought you'd been Oh, sorry, to be fair, if you're being categorized, yeah, so sorry, we went to, oh, yeah, how the fuck did I not say all that? I've completely missed it, yeah. So we went to sentencing. Maria didn't, she needed to go to sentencing with me because she was still being done for just the possession charge, but none of the supply. Yeah, they cut her loose from that.

They cut her loose from that. Possession charge. Still got a possession. So she still had to be sentenced for that. Right. So I appear in the dock, you know, I've had to be shipped in the van all the way to, perhaps, in court again, all chained up. I'm standing in the box with Maria on my side and they go, they deal with her just a possession charge. They give her a fine. Brilliant. Amazing. Not guilty

for the other stuff. Best, best outcome. She gets to leave the box and go and sit in the, with the other people. That'll my term. So they, the prosecution were trying to go for 12 years. That's what they wanted me to do, 12 years. Which I'm thinking, is a bit steep because, I mean, everyone's always going to say that, but I'm thinking that's a bit, that's a bit much. I mean, I didn't kill anyone. So they're going to go for 12 years. And the judge that we had in at the time,

he was what's called a circuit judge. So they kind of just go around and do bits and pieces, fill in where needed. Unless a judge specifically reserves your case, like it's a big, I don't know, murder or, you know, something like that where the judge will do there from start to finish. usually you'll just get a different judge every time you're appearing cool. Wow.

So, yeah, it was different, isn't it? So there's this guy with a stupid fucking curly wig and the stupid clothes on, about to, and all the prosecutors wear the white curly wigs too, just standing there looking like fucking idiots. And they're trying to say to the judge, you know, that I capitalised off people's, you know, addictions, and I was responsible for bringing a drug into the, you know, this area and ruining lives.

I mean, it wasn't wrong, I guess. You know, he was, you can't blame him for being truthful. But just thinking pretty much accurate. It pretty much just point out the accuracy of the crime. But I get it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's, you know, it always sounds bad. You're like, these guys are, they're calling me.

Yeah, exactly. That's what, that's my defense. I'm like, well, you know, they called me, but they were addicted, you know, yeah. He made, he made valid points and I didn't argue it. So he was trying to say that a lead role, leading role in these charges equals 14 years, right? He then goes, well, look, he's never been done for a distribution charge before. So, you know, we're going to go for the fucking 14, 16. We'll do a 12.

And I'm like, fucking out. Okay, right, 12. This is what we're looking at. My defence do their bit, you know, I mean, there's not much to go with in regards to an actual defence. I mean, they've got evidence of money, drugs, you know, they've got state, they've got everything they need. Like, it's pretty open and close. So my judge are there probably just for the, just to make sure it all goes smoothly and just to do the paperwork side of things. There's not really much of a defence I really had. The judge went, well, hold on, he went, he went, what, what are even these

drugs? He goes, I can't even pronounce these drugs. He's like oxycodone, high, He's like, I can't say that one. He's like, and then hydromorphone, because it wasn't just doxy. There was like Vicodins as well and similar, you know, all that kind of bandwidth of medications. And the judge, he couldn't fucking say any of them. He's like, I don't even know what half these drugs are. He's like, how can I sit here and give him 12 years for something I don't. He's like, he's hardly he or crook.

Right. So I'm like, oh, nice. Okay, cool. He might be on my side here. And the prosecution, like, no, they're class A's. you know, he needs to be saying it's their class, they're worse than it's stronger than the browns, you know, brown trying to not get you

all big tell. How do you determine that? You know what I'm saying? I always love that when they used to say that about like, you know, I don't know, but you know, in the U.S., they were, so if you had powder, right, if you had a white powder, you got one sentence. If that powder was the same weight,

but it was, it was rock, right? Yeah, yeah. Rock, you got, I want to say it was, was it 40 to one ratio? Like they gave you 40 times the amount of weight. Oh, right. So these guys are like, okay, I'm getting charged for, you know, I'm getting five years for this. I'm getting, you know, like 35 years for this.

You're like, this is what, what's happening? And that they did that for 20 years. And then one day they called it the law. And they changed it. And so all these guys that had life. sentences were getting out immediately because they had them life sentences and then they're just being released once yeah weird yeah yeah man this guy's got life sentence he probably he only really should have done six years five years

12 years seven years he's been down 25 years right right so you're the system over there is fucked i must say it's a weird system the way you guys sentence people like you just get a hundred years like that it's it's nuts you know you can't get a lot, you will always leave jail here. You'll never do a whole life tariff in there. Like, unless you're being a dickhead in there, you will come out. You, you kill someone. They will sentence you to life with a minimum serve of 23 years, right? 23 years you'll do. You probably won't get out on 23. You'll go for your parole on 24. And if you've been good inside, you'll get out. You will always get out. There's none of this, you know, life sentence,

no release. You will always come out in jail here. which I think is yeah but there are some awful people like we've had like terrorists you know we have a bad immigration problem and people who are coming over from Afghanistan you know posing as migrants and then they're going fucking stab a load of kids up like we've got one at the moment called axel ruda cabana or something stabbed like stabbed and killed a load of kids at a taylor swift concert right evil looking dude and he got life sentence serve 25 years He's being a dick in jail, though. He's throwing hot water.

I'm following his case because he's like throwing hot water because we have a kettle in our cell, right? So he's like throwing, because we have to have tea because they give you a tea pack every morning. So, like, what is happening? So every morning, well, actually, you get your tea pack at night. You can't, you can't withhold tea from me. No, that's a crime. So you get your tea pack in the evening with your dinner when you go for your hot food, get your tea. pack, got a few tea bags in there, sugar and stuff. You buy more on the canteen. Like, I always

get my commissary. That's, canteen is commissary. Like, the canteen in there is, yeah, I mean, you can do full meals. So everyone will have a kettle for their hot water. And then you'll have another kettle that you've, we basically would strip the wires and then take it, loop it past the timer, you know where it boils, then it clicks off? Yeah. We'd loop it past that, so we would always be on. And then you've got a cooking kettle. So we'd like cook up, like, cus, and, like, you know, do macral, like, it's lovely. The food in there was good we made. The prison food was awful.

Shit. But we would make amazing dinners in a kettle, like in ourselves over night time. It's all allowed. Like, it wasn't, you know, you don't get told off for it. Yeah, jail cooking is a big thing. Big, big thing. If you take someone's kettle and, you know, they're going to get pissed off. But, yeah, no, that guy, he's throwing hot water over prison officers.

So he's never going to get out. He's just going to stay there till forever. But, no, it's just weird. how the sentencing works different. But, yeah, did they give you 12 years? No,

so he couldn't pronounce all the drugs. He was like, I don't feel like that's there. You know, if I was reading, you know, brown or hard food, then,

you know, I'd get, I'd understand, but these are medications. He's like, I can really, I get that they're class A, but they're medications.

He was like, properly on my side. And he's like, we cannot give him the max, which is 16 or 40 or whatever. So we got eight. which was decent and you will always serve half so because for drugs you only always serve half so that's four and how long have you already been locked up one a year so you only got three years left three years left

36 months left yeah so got my eight took it on the chin everyone's like ah what'd you get what you get told them that that was all right you know decided the crack on my my goal was to get out of onesworth, get to a sentence, Nick, and, you know, once I got to a CCAT, Nick, then, you know, it all is all right. And I'll work it from there. So I had to do my onesworth bit for a year, didn't I? Because I was a B-cat. Did that. Got my listener, you know, qualification thing. You know, was doing good in there. It was not misbehaving. And the listener, you got a card, another card like mine, where you're allowed, like, almost to walk around the prison. It's like a trusted role. So that was good for my recategorization for when I then became a C-Cat. What was

annoying is the C-Cat prison they sent me to was High-Down, that place I was in the very, very beginning on my first time on remand. The problem is with High-Down, although it's a C-Cat and they run by the C-Cat rules, it was built to be an A-Cat like Belmarsh. So every, you know, there's double locks, double gates, you don't have the free roam of what a C-Cat should be. A C-Cat is you don't leave the walls, but you're allowed to be a little bit more like to and froming around places. But in a prison built like that, they just can't, they can't do it. So you're stuck on your wing. So I went to, I got into the induction wing there and one of the old officers, we call them screws. One of the screws, I saw her and I remembered her from when I was there last. And she was like,

oh, Tommy, she was like, and she was like, she knew I was no problem. So she's like, do you want to come onto my house block, get you off induction, you can come on to house block four. And I went, yeah, all right, I'll come, I'll come HP4. So I was there. And I had, in Wandsworth, back then, I had met a guy called Ross, and he was a, it was a YO, a young offender, right? Now, the rule with young offenders is they cannot have a cellmate because they're not allowed to be bunked up with an adult if they're 17, 18, 18 years old. Okay. Just for like... 18 year olds go to the same prison as the adults? The remand jail, yeah.

And then when Ross got sentenced, he was likely to go to a young offender's institute. Yeah. So he went to the same remand and then he would have been sentenced and went on to a YO. But he turned 18 in prison, so he never had to go to the YO. Anyway, so I'm on House Block 4 in Highdown and I'm doing my thing there and I wanted to get on some jobs. I'll try and get a qualification. So I put myself down for the barbering thing. because one of my little graphs in there was I saved up because you get there's a there's a tablet on the wall right outside on the walls of the wing which is where you log in with your fingerprint and your prison number and you can go onto the canteen and order your groceries and stuff for next week you can top up your phone credit you know from people send you money from the outside you can deal with all of like your emails and stuff to like your lawyers or prison staff like offender management stuff every day

in prison, they will credit your account 50 pence, right? That's just yours from the prison, from the government, you get 50 pence. 50 pence gets you fuck all. But over a week, it's about £2.50. That's exactly what a box of vapes cost. So you can vape in prison. I don't know if you can God. You can't vape in prison. And they're making, they're charging the inmates here. These guys are owing thousands of dollars. Some states, like in a lot of states, they'll charge you Every day. The jails here charge you. You can charge like $1.25 or every day.

You'll go to get out of prison. You owe them $300. That's mental. That's fucking nuts. No, you get your daily allowance, which is 50p, which gets you fuck all. But you can't bring your own vapes in or have your people bring you vapes. There's a special brand on there that you can buy. And a box is £2.

To work? Do you get paid to work? Yep. So I, for the listener roll, I got £3 a week. and then I wanted to do the barbering course, but before I could, I saved up and I bought myself a set of clippers. And I basically wanted to learn how to cut hair because I thought that's what I could do when I get out. So I basically practiced on junkies. So they don't give a shit. They're not paying for the haircut. Junkies all have the same hairstyle buzzed off, right?

But they don't ever just keep on top of it. So I would say to them, look, hey, let me practice doing a fade on you. You know, I'm going to fuck it up. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'll buzz it off at the end, and then, you know, you got your haircut. So I practiced on like 50, 100, 200 junkies, right? Just trying to master it. And I actually got good to the point where people would pay me to do their trims. So I was making money. They pay the currency in there as vapes, right? That's your vapes for everything, a little box of three vapes. So I did that and then was waiting to get on the course for hair dressing or barbering. It was a long wait list because, as you can imagine, a lot of people want to get on that. I was still in from Wonsworth you weren't allowed any of your own clothes.

So I wanted my own clothes to be sent in. And there was so many rules about what you can and can't have. So you can't have black. You can't have white. You can't have anything with like cargo pockets on the side. I don't know why. You can't have camouflage and you can't have anything football related because people like to kick off about football, don't they? Like all of the as in our football, not your football. Yeah, yeah. A football hooligans, right? Yeah, football hooligans, yeah.

So if there's two fucking opposing fucking things in there, it's just more reason for people to kick off. So yeah, got all my clothes parcel, had all my nice clothes in there. And, you know, I was in a shared cell, which wasn't ideal. I would have liked to have a single cell, but, you know, can't always get what you want. So I was in a shared cell with some fucking guy. He was all right. I mean, we both chilled with different people, but he was cleave. enough, do you know what I mean? Like, I like to have my shit clean and that's why I don't like living

with people like in a cell. And there's also the fucking argument about who wants to watch on TV. Do I mean? He wants to watch Love Island, but I want to watch, I don't know, something else, a good documentary. You're shaking your head like, this is fucking holiday, isn't it? Ridiculous. We used to do with the TVs is because they only, they come pre-tuned with about 15 channels, right? You've got the movie channel at 9, like the news channels and like ITV and and stuff. And if you get the aerial from out the back, which goes into the cell wall, there's like an aerial socket, you can strip the end off of it, fray the two wires, and you can hang them out the cell bars, and you can tune into, like, you can get more channels.

So we found a spot where you could tune in and, like, get Babe Station, right? You know, like, that's stupid, like, it's like three in the morning and there's, like, half-naked girls on there, and they take calls and stuff, people call them in. But in jail, that's a commodity. So we were tuning people's TVs for them and then sending them for a box of vapes. Anything to get by, really. Yeah, so, Joe, yeah, I was in House Block 4. And one evening, an officer came to me and was like, oh, you're, do you know someone called Ross? And I went, oh, shit, yeah, I do know Ross.

And he went, oh, he's come here from Wonsworth. And I went, oh, that's weird. He should have gone to Felton. Oh, Felton, there we go. That's the YO, the young offenders. And he went, no, no, she's here. And I went, where housebox? he on and they were like, I was on house block six, which is the high risk wing. And I thought,

oh, why is he on the high risk wing? That's a fucking dangerous wing to be on. And she was like, I was the only wing that has single cells. So he has to be single cell. So there's no other place to put him apart from the high risk wing. And apparently it wasn't having a great time. So she was like, do you want to like come chill with him? Like, I was a trusted prisoner, right? It wasn't like they just give this kind of treatment to any prisoner. Right. I was trusted. I had my listener thing on the door and like I was always unlocked going everywhere. So I went and chilled with him for the day. And then the screw was like, do you want to, do you want to just like come over here? Like come chill with your mate. You can like live over here. And I was like, yeah, fuck it.

Yeah. Why not? I was like, do I get a single cell? And she was like, yeah, yeah, you get a single cell. And I was like, ah, this is coming along perfectly. Single cell. Got my mate, you know, I got a job where I'm out all the time. I was like, yeah, I could do this. So I packed. up went over to the house block and it was just constant lockdown just fighting all the time gang violence like I saw like a stabbing two stabbing every week yeah it was it was a rough time over there but you know you just keep your head down and you get by and I did half my time in in that jail and then I was applying for my category D my D cat so I wanted to go to open prison now you can only go to open prison when you've got a set amount of time left and it's more of like a prison to help you

reintegrate into society. I mean, for people that have been away for 15, 20 years, that's really useful in their last couple years to go there and help them kind of readapt. So I went there and I was, to be fair, I wanted to go to one called Ford, which was relatively close by. I could have been home in 40 minutes, easy for Maria to come visit me and stuff. But they, Ford refused me because I had a fight in high down a few weeks before and they refused me, which I thought was ridiculous, but it is what it is. And then some prison called Hollisley Bay took me all the way up north, fucking forever. It took four hours to get there. But it was a bit run down. But it was an open prison and it was a start. So I got all set up and I was like, right, and he's going to get a job,

wonder what I'm going to do. And I worked in the transport office. So because there are so many prisoners who've been there already and they're going out to work every day. You're allowed jobs outside in the town, right? So you can go and get a job working in a gym or a cafe or something, right? So, so I was, I wasn't allowed that access right away because you need to get, you need to get your rottel, which is your release on temporary license. Every time you leave the jail, you have to fill out your rottle form. So I wasn't rottled yet. So I just got an inside prison job on the transport office where it was almost like a taxi rank. I was working out the buses of who's going where. We had buses in the jail, which prisoners would

drive and drop them at their jobs. So a couple of my mates would jump in the buses, go around the wings, pick up the prisoners going out, and then they'd drop them off at their route in town, come back for lunch, and then do all the same again in the evening, pick them up from work. So I kind of planned the routes there. It was like a little taxi job on Excel. I actually quite enjoyed it, to be fair. And I had this asshole, OMU, officer. My fend, manager who's supposed to help you get your rottle. They want you to go out. They want you to fucking go home and see your people. And he refused to rottle me because of that call her parents made about control and coerce. It was on my thing, on my record. Even though it was no further

action, you have an arrest for a domestic offence. And he's like, I'm not going to rottle you to your partner's address. You know, you've clearly got problems. Why would I temporarily release a prisoner to someone who he's had domestics with. I went she we didn't have domestics though and we're real the else calls or parents call yeah yeah I'd said all this couldn't give a fuck just kept putting me at the bottom of the line I ended up putting in a load of comp one forms complaint forms took it to the governor went to had a meeting with the governor said these guys are cunt I'm not this is not on do I mean he's wrong I then got given a different OMU who was happy to happy to roll me so they have to kind of test it out first. So you're allowed a day visit. So Maria came all the way up.

We went into Whipswich Town for the day, went and did a walk around, when he got a mobile phone, bits and pieces, and then dropped me back at the prison. That was just to prove that you're going to come back and not be a flight risk. Right. Once you do a successful town, you're allowed at home. So I put in my home leave request and you're allowed four nights a month at home. so usually people do from Friday to Monday or Friday to Tuesday or Thursday to Monday, whichever how many days that is. So I did Friday to Tuesday and put it in. I was so excited. They pay for my rail ticket as well, the government. One of my friends who's got the bus driving job, drops me at the station, jump in the, I haven't been out. Do you know what I haven't been out of prison for like

four years now? Like this is fucking, this is weird. I've got one prison issue black duffel bag. and I go home and have five nights with Maria. She had to, I really wanted to see her because she was struggling with, with her mental health and stuff because she was alone, she was single income, we didn't have that kind of money coming in from when I was out. She was just working, you know, a little job. We obviously lost the house, all this kind of stuff. And, you know, police took everything as well.

You know, what we didn't lose from financial problems, you know, the police seized all my designer clothes. they stole my watch, they seized my watches. Luckily, I had one watch in servicing when I went away. So, and I came out, I was able to go pick it up from servicing. So I've got a nice little fund in case anything goes wrong. Right. But yeah, she was really struggling out there. And she had found this little kind of one bed place in the countryside. It wasn't that expensive. Wasn't that nice. But, you know, she was like, it's all I can do. But, you know, I'm just trying to get somewhere so that you can come home and that we can, you know, try and build a life again. And I thought,

her. Do you know, she's sitting there, loyal as a dog to me, you know, comes to see me every time she can, every night we speak on the phone, she's trying to put a life back together from what I destroyed, and all she wants to do is make it good so that when I come home, we can build a life together. And then it all kind of, yeah, it was good when I was in there, and we were building these plans and, you know, putting a future into motion. And then when I got out, it was too far gone, I think. She was just, I mental health ate her up and she decided it was best to go. So she left only a year ago now, you know, a year ago. And I've hardly spoken to her since, which is sad because I thought we had a plan. But yeah, it is what it is. So I came out,

came out to her, stuck to my plan, did all my probation appointments. And, you know, she helped me get back on my feet and get a job. And, you know, I promised her when I was inside, You know, I'm not going to go back to the old ways and very easily could be drawn into that, but, you know, decided wanted to go down a legal route and, you know, build something on a legal future kind of thing. And yeah, so that's what I'm doing solo now without her. So, yeah, that's kind of it. I do still have contact. Oh, Alex, obviously, he died when I was in prison.

He overdosed when I was inside. Yeah, so I got a call from Maria, or I called Maria, and she was in peace. one night and she was like Alex has been found dead and he had been going through something with his misses and he was doing a lot of oxies and he was mixing oxy with Xanax and yeah he uh he died when I was away so there really was no reason for me to kind of go back to that you know it's sad that it happened it got to where it was I could have retired twice but it you know it is what it is and it's a story to tell I don't know what it was but spice or something where they would sell it like in the drug stores they were for a while they were selling some ends up being is it k2

so you in yeah you in the jail you guys over there in jail because i watch all your 60 days in stuff you have something in the in the prison k2 or clone yeah and i think that it's some kind of a derivative of what initially was started